Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 58 of total 58 in this topic |
Prod
Trad climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 22, 2010 - 11:54pm PT
|
I have decided that a Big Wall solo is in the cards. So I decided that I need to first get a system, and then work on it. This brought me to Aid Crack on Cob Rock in Boulder Canyon last Friday evening. I’ll post what I did and would be interested in some constructive as well as non-constructive feedback.
My rig is a modified Gri gri with a chest strap, 2 adjustable dasies cloved to my harness tie in and 2 sets of Fish easy aiders (free from the dasies). Rope on the ground up over my shoulder.
Aid Crack on the right.
Anchor Location
Anchor of a cordalette to a power point.
Moving up.
I noticed that if I was not paying attention the weight of the anchor would pull more slack than I wanted toward the ground. To fix this I cloved the lead line to a solid piece 1 piece below the solid piece I was standing on.
It was getting dark and we had dinner plans so I stopped shooting pictures. In general it felt like a cluster fuk. If I stopped paying attention for a second my aiders would be tangled in the rope and the dasies.
Have at it.
Prod.
|
|
Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2010 - 11:57pm PT
|
The only critique I have is...
yur gonna die!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 02:03am PT
|
Looks like a perfectly good blue Camalot placement in the upper left crack in the anchor location pic. What did you use up all those other pieces for? You better delete this thread before Donini sees it.
|
|
Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 02:05am PT
|
LMAO.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 02:15am PT
|
a clove in the middle of the pitch will start the calculations over for when you start to increase your factors. I think pete has some pretty good rants on that.
rope feed is the nemesis of any solo'r.
I'm not an expert, infact, I probably only know enough to be dangerous, but I suspect the clove in a string of bad placements would be a bad idea.
prolly get better feedback on bigwalls.com when folks get back from Yos.
rain is coming
|
|
jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 02:52am PT
|
clove hitches could possibly chop the rope during a fall instead try useing a pussik or a large rubber band(wich will just break in the event of a fall. or a butterfly not.
|
|
Prod
Trad climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2010 - 09:54am PT
|
Yeah Mung and Jack, I knew that it was risky but I did not have any rubber bands with me, so I opted to get 2 solid pieces then clove to the lower one keeping the upper one as my new Jesus nut.
Any thoughts on a clean system. I felt very encumbered.
Prod.
|
|
Critter
Trad climber
State of Jefferson
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 11:09am PT
|
ok...
1st- attache a dreamer (screamer. load limiter) to the anchor so it is dynamic.
2nd- get long prussiks and understand ptpp "rebelay", you absolutely dont want to start clove hitching mid pitch unless you are only planning on... well you just dont want to.
3rd- you dont want your aiders free, you will drop them, then you will lose them, then you will be.... attach them to your daisies with a locker... lock it.... atach a non locker now to you ladder clip in point. this non locker will be what you use to clip into gear.
4th- you need to have your sysmtem dialed with a partner before you can imagine what it would be like to have it dialed by yourself. add: ledge, bags, more ropes, more gear, wind, and exposer, and you get the idea.
lastly- practice is best done on the big day. just get out there and do it.
"luck favors the bold"
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 11:09am PT
|
The best way to learn this is just keep doing it.
You'll start to iron out and see all your small problems and inefficiencies in your system.
Experience will be your friend.
|
|
Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 11:46am PT
|
Wow, there is like 4 aid climbing topics on the front page on ST right now what has become of this place a climbing forum :)
Agree Practice, Practice Practice. Also practicing with a friend even on your solo set up is a very good idea it provides more direct feedback and attach those aiders to your daisies man seen it happen more than once where people have dropped them on El Cap
|
|
Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 11:59am PT
|
Prod,
Forget rubber bands and don't use Clove Hitches. Make yourself some two and a half foot slings with 5 mil cord and tie a Kleimheist knot onto the rope. Pull up the slack, tighten the knot and move on. I used two or three of these per pitch on my solo in the spring.
I'd bag the modded Grigri idea and go straight Grigri.
|
|
Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 12:05pm PT
|
Mark brings up something I also noticed in your set up the Modified Gri Gri and agree ditch the mod and go with a regular one.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 12:17pm PT
|
Why ditch the modified for the regular grigri? Curious as to advantages and disadvantages of each.
(I know nothing about aid climbing so sorry if this is a terribly stupid question)
|
|
cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 01:27pm PT
|
You are missing the most important piece of aid gear...
warm malt liquor!
|
|
Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 02:06pm PT
|
Prod, I agree with Mark Hudon and Werner of course. The two Rock Exotica units are awesome by the way.
What might be something you are not ready for however, and something that you can't exactly prepare for, is how much effing plain old work soloing a big wall is and I mean something big, well beyond 15 pitches. It is one thing to get your favorite system concept working well, another much much larger thing to become capable of undergoing the many other trials you'll face and succeeding overall, the whole entire time, minute by minute.
Your hands take an incredible beating especially if there is actual nailing and hammer work. And since you normally will be going twice as slow as a competent party of two, you will still have the same amount of water and food as a team of two would be hauling---you still have the same amount of hardware, ropes and bivy gear and related. So on true-blue big walls, the pig(s) is/are just awesomely heavy. You don't climb half the wall as you do when swinging leads in a team, you climb the whole thing, rappel the whole thing, and haul the entire thing all by your bitty little self with your tiny hands. It is another order of slavery than what you might be familiar with say in a team or actually anywhere else in your entire life experience.
I know it seems blissful and romantic even, beforehand in the abstract. There you are, looking up at the route or gazing at a photo of it and then looking at yourself and imagining "owning" that 2000-3000 ft sucker or being "wondrously owned" by it, out there in Mother Nature. This would be true enough if you were up there unroped, galloping along. But it turns out rope soloing long and big walls may not be the experience you presumed. Much better to develop a totally awesome partnership with someone or a few someones. That is actually easier to achieve than grunting up all by your lonesome and then topping out on some monster.
If there are difficulties along the route which might make retreating extremely difficult and you proceed anyway into the no-return zone, you will put quite a bit of additional pressure on yourself every waking minute and will work the crap out of yourself out of grave concern to summit before the hourglass of food and water runs out. It is really intense. Hard deadly sections may produce infinite anxiety too; with someone else, such spots often are easier to undergo.
Being physically larger and stronger helps too, facing this much baghandling, hauling, constantly doing something absolutely every minute with your hands and fingers. And the normal self-comforting behaviors we all indulge in to make it through such challenges is for the most part just not on the agenda. There is no snoozing on belay even! If you get sick or injured; if you lose critical equipment; if you get overfaced by the route, you very likely have a terrible problem, whereas were you in a team, it is much more often the case the problems get solved easily. Also being alone for that long is not within the abilities of most people....
There are of course a few advantages. You won't have the problem of your partner's attitude and psyche, just your own. You don't have "rope drag" which at times is pretty wonderful, I do admit. And at small bivy spots, you don't have to share any space--- you get to hog what's available. And if you want to cheat and drink or eat more than scheduled, that is your decision alone and you only have to face the consequences of just your own actions. Soloing these big climbs is quite a different sort of test, passage, achievement than with partners, the emphases are in different "spots" and not so much on pure technical extremes as they are on your total personal power.
|
|
Kindredlion
Big Wall climber
4hrs too far from YNP
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 03:10pm PT
|
nice post Mr Haan
it seems that the romance can be a blinder at times..
a day in the field is worth more than a week in the books..
To Prod - keep experimenting - on home crags... or over pack and head up to the column or the tower - spend a few days getting dialed inching your way up.. by the time you figure most of it out.. you'll be on top ;) Or plan on a course in bailing - also part of your quiver of wall skills not to be overlooked..
way to have at it...
take air,
adam
My Name is Adam and I solo with a straight Gri Gri..
|
|
Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
wussing off the topout on Roadside Attraction
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 03:17pm PT
|
Try running just 2 ladders- 4 is a guaranteed cluster and really only necessary on the desperate stuff. Put a 3rd 'floater' on your butt just in case, but try not to use it.
[Oh yeah- it doesn't actually float, watch out for that one. mine is at the base somewhere, maybe you'll find it :) ]
With one ladder (the kind w/ a spreader) you just climb right up to the top of the thing and start getting another piece in, instead of dicking around holding the left aider out for your left foot, then holding your right ai- hold on, it's twisted-- er out for your right foot, etc fukking cetera. You just motor on up and get on with it.
Hooks,sideways, roofs- you probably want the floater.
Figuring the stuff out on your own will work, eventually. Practice is the key. I had never soloed more than one pitch before I launched onto my only multipitch solo, and I got worked, but it was also incredibly rewarding and memorable. A couple days' practice would have saved me some time and trauma for sure. Somewhere on this site is another solo thread with a long bit of advice I wrote shortly after, mostly pertaining to the unforeseen and nontechnical challenges of self-care up there which anyone would do well to read once it's decided to leave the ground. Piton Ron seemed to think it was good, anyhow, which made me feel better.
Remember, that's why you have kidneys. Go for it and have fun!
|
|
squatch
Boulder climber
santa cruz, CA
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 03:18pm PT
|
not to mention topping out and the feeling of ruling your own universe, quietly celebrating the realization of your own imposssible.
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 03:19pm PT
|
Thanks Mark!
|
|
Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
wussing off the topout on Roadside Attraction
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 03:26pm PT
|
Oh yeah.
Try tatooing these words on the inside of your eyelids, where they will come to life once your head is resting on the wall in contemplation of defeat:
I'M NOT F*#KIN BAILING.
Routes that lean, overhang, traverse, and take a lot of sweat-investment to reach are good too. It's easy to tell yourself that it's OK to go down if you can see your car the whole time.
|
|
Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 03:28pm PT
|
Also tough if you can see the river and it's hot weather.
|
|
Prod
Trad climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2010 - 04:21pm PT
|
Critter,
1. Good point on the screamer. Will do.
2. Most likely will use Mark's suggestion of Kleimheist knots.
3. I started climbing with my aiders free on Fish's recommendation. It really helps with freeing up the cluster. My thought is that I am currently running 2 pair of easy aiders. If I drop i pair I could split up my other set up and then clip them into my daises.
Hey Locker,
I think that might have been me who recommended the Bastille to you??? Sorry.
Hark,
Thanks for the link on the Gri Gri, currently my unit is modified. I'll look into getting another unmodified one. But for now this'll do.
Peter,
You started with "The two Rock Exotica units are awesome by the way.". Do you mean Holly's system of using 2 rock ushibas and dynamic cord in lieu of daises?
Great write up. A lot of why you say that I may not want to solo a wall is exactly why I think I might want to do one, or at least try.
Adam,
"by the time you figure most of it out.. you'll be on top ;)"
That is pretty much how I got to the top of Zodiac.
Rhodo,
Dean used 3 ladders when we climbed Zodiac, I am planning on buying some and practicing this system. Do you use 1 per daisy and put both feet on the rung you are working off of? Or is this where you bring the 3rd into play. Meaning climb ladder to 2nd or top step then clip the 3rd in to work on the next placement?
Any clue on what your solo TR was called?
"Also tough if you can see the river and it's hot weather."
Did Zodiac in August when it was 104 on the floor. Ugly stinky pee, other than that I loved every second of it.
Everyone else,
Thanks you for the advice of practice practice practice.
Cheers
Prod.
|
|
crunch
Social climber
CO
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 06:33pm PT
|
Peter Haan's post is very helpful, very accurate. There's all kinds of ways to set things up, but you really have to WANT to climb the route--it's a lot of work. You've backed off once already!
My first solo aid was Sundevil Chimney on Titan. At the time, I knew no more than you now. After driving three hundred miles from the Front Range, and lugging three loads of gear out to the base, and also knowing that the aid would be kinda hard but not super hard (this was maybe 1993) the result was never really in doubt.
Good technical advice above. Keeping things as simple as possible is a huge priority, or else you will wear yourself down. My own system is to use knots, no grigri, or any other mechanical devices. That helps.
Yes, place a directional above your initial anchor, so as to keep the anchor oriented in the direction (usually upward) you expect any pull. If you can cinch this fairly tight, with a bungee or similar, (even a shoelace!) that's a bonus. If the anchor is loose, and you are pulling the rope and repeatedly dropping it again, biners will rotate, cams may walk from where you placed them, and nuts may wiggle loose--not good!
A screamer on the belay is a great idea for really dicey leads.
Since there will no one watching it, the anchor has to be super, super bomber. I use all lockers for the belays, and in addition usually double up biners (they can, very rarely, break over an edge, and in the event of a solo fall, it's hard to know exactly where they will end up. The DMM Belaymaster biners are my favorites, as they will prevent cross-loading. Once I've left that anchor, I don't want to have to give it a single thought again.
What else? I'm with Fish, don't tie the aiders into anything, as this creates extra tangles. Learn to not drop things--there's a way of moving on a wall, fluid, methodical, deliberate, that will become automatic.
I use two aiders. Drop one on a one-day climb, you can improvise some shoulder length slings. For El Cap, pack an extra pair in the haulbag.
Now get out there and have fun!
|
|
Prod
Trad climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2010 - 07:12pm PT
|
Hey Crunch,
Thanks that is some good Beta. Did you research me or just remember bailing on Lost Arrow Spire in 07? I'll credit that more to my now wife than me, and I get your point. Where are you in Colorado? I'd be glad to buy you a beer or 10 if you wanted to come out and evaluate my systems some time.
With regard to wanting to solo a wall, it is pretty much all I have thought about since I did Zodiac in August of 08. Life, work, getting moved to Colorado from Michigan, etc have gotten in the way a bit. I get pissed when I realize that another season passes me or is getting underway and I have no way to pull it off. So yes I might bail, I sort of doubt it, and I gotta try.
Cheers,
Prod.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 07:28pm PT
|
Hey Guy, remember what I said about soloing;
Three times the work
Five times the challenge
But yields ten times the reward.
Its a heavy shot. In fact, after I succeeded in putting up some walls solo when I then put up walls with other partners there was almost always a tiny kernel of accomplishment that was missing. I mean, doing a FA with a good friend is a deeply rewarding experience, but it also felt a bit like cheating because, for example, if my psych started to flag then my partner would buck me up.
People get overly ambitious though (and also a bit unwilling to pay their dues).
Before trying to solo a big wall a person should solo dozens of pitches. Then he should solo some Grade IIIs. Etc. etc.
Work the kinks out.
Ah yes, I remember the good old days of teaching myself soloing on the crack to the right of Huston, and the Practice Wall, and Country Club, and other Boulder Canyon routes.
What fun!
|
|
mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 07:31pm PT
|
I will second the UN-modified Gri for aid.
For free, works great.
So, You hav never soloed a wall.....
Sounds like another great trip report :)
good luck!
|
|
Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
wussing off the topout on Roadside Attraction
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 08:38pm PT
|
Um, I don't even own ladders, I just steal my partners' for the leads. Because they are better.
The floater comes out when I can't stand on one leg long enough to fire the next piece in. I also do a fair bit of edging, jamming 'fraid stuff because I am essentially a free climber at heart, and it helps me to get up higher faster. This may not be everyone's style, and I abandon it freely depending on the terrain.
|
|
crunch
Social climber
CO
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 08:43pm PT
|
"Did you research me or just remember bailing on Lost Arrow Spire in 07"
Funny, I knew nothing of that. Actually I was referring to the Practice Crack you posted the photos from. The reason for bailing there being, I would guess, that you had nothing invested in success.
For me, I have to be soloing something that really inspires me, to have any chance of success. I'd bail from something in Boulder Canyon, too.
|
|
Cpt0bvi0u5
Trad climber
Merced CA
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 08:59pm PT
|
I'd double up on the lockers connecting the rope to the anchor.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 09:13pm PT
|
Oh yeah, stop thinking like a two man team. You can beef up the belay from anchors mid pitch. You can belay from the lip of a roof (since you won't be standing there while you lead). You can short pitch a section just to ease hauling and leave your bag mid-pitch.
Don't think out of the box.
Think; there is no box.
|
|
MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 09:14pm PT
|
Just wanted to post to this important climbing thread:
Dood, yer gonna get flamed!
;-)
|
|
Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 10:19pm PT
|
Of course in all things, “Keep it simple, make it fun” (k.i.s.m.if) as Crunch notes just above! You won’t make it otherwise if you are all the time trying to figure out the square root of minus one, placement after placement. It has to be easy, quick, mostly problem-free and unburdensome for the most part.
Back in the day, I used a jumar and a 7mm perlon loop prussik---properly roughed up for friction--- and triple rather than double wrapped. I did actually fall on the rig and it worked fine. However now 40 years later, I would use as I mentioned (and you then queried me just above) Rock Exotica belay devices. I am quite surprised you don’t know about these...most climbers do.
These are great devices: one for more freeclimbing type of soloing (Silent Partner) and another intended for aid climbing (Solo Aid). They available and much detail here. The need--- at least as I see it--- for inventing your own device or system has been over for many years:
http://www.rockexotica.com/products/belay_devices/all_solo_belay.html
I have both devices and would recommend them. However this solo device subject has been threaded a bunch here on Supertopo and it would be worth your time searching for those threads.
Yeah P-Ron. I agree. After soloing a bunch, climbing with humans seems like cheating a tiny bit, it really does, until you re-socialize! Phony feeling almost. You have the thought, “some of that rock down there I did NOT lead, damnit, and maybe I should come back again sometime and do those pitches”. I guess the alternative is the old, get a newbie and have him belay, jumar and haul the whole time.
Big solos are really the province of experienced, expert climbers, Prod. Make sure that is what you are before you tie into one. Climbs don't always go as planned...
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 10:47pm PT
|
Prod, I haven't read all these responses but I have 3 points:
1. Your anchor looks to be a big loose block....lol
2. Use two biners at the powerpoint, and incorporate a screamer there. I like to use a weighted pig as a counterweight.
3. DON'T tie off your pieces with clove hitches.
I recomend soloing the Prow or WFLT, not on a weekend, then Zodiac.
|
|
Paulina
Trad climber
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2010 - 11:47pm PT
|
Oh yeah, stop thinking like a two man team.
Ron, this is really good advice. I think. I don't know. I'll try to remember if/when I solo aid. Thank you!
|
|
Prod
Trad climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2010 - 10:31am PT
|
Hey Crunch,
I didn't bail on the Practice Crack, I just stopped taking pictures. I did make it to the top. The Crux was right about where my past picture was taken and consisted of a shallow #00 TCU, then a #3 BD Micro, then a medium cam hoom, bomber sky hook, to solid #3 TCU.
Ron,
I'll pay my dues with practice. Right now I am looking for system advice/ input. From there I'll tweek it to be my own.
Peter,
I do know about the rock exotic products, just didn't put 2 and 2 together as I usually hear soloist, solo aid, and silent partner. Thanks for the advice.
Prod.
|
|
crunch
Social climber
CO
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2010 - 10:37am PT
|
Prod, I misunderstood what you said about it getting dark, you had dinner plans. You stopped taking pics, that's all. Sorry.
|
|
Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2010 - 12:16pm PT
|
I also advocate the use of two aiders over 4. I abandoned the 4 aider system some time ago. I know there are those that still swear by it. However when using just 2 aid ladders it really can help clean up some of the cluster fuk. Having a 3rd floater is a good idea and does not have to be a ladder type aider it can be a more traditional aider that just hangs on your harness and is a little less bulky. How much and when you use it just depends on what route you are doing and your ability as well. I still say try attaching your aiders to your dasies. I agree with Crutch that learning not to drop things is good practice but even the best drop things at times. Last season there was a solo on the Zodiac and he dropped some gear thus not able to finish the route and he had to bail. maybe a rookie mistake maybe not but it finished his chances of continuing.
I think there is a lot of good input on this thread and dont see Peters or Rons comments as discouraging but more about the time, experience and commitment it takes to achieve something like this. Tom Evans and I were talking just a few weeks ago how there seems to be a slight decline in big wall climbing. A number of factors no doubt might be contributing to that . The economy, many younger climbers have not reached that level etc. but also the fact that not as many people may have 2 weeks or a month to spend time climbing let alone the time it takes to practice, work out various systems etc. As you already know Aid climbing is very much a mental / technical process which can take up a lot of time.
What is interesting is that there seems to be a few more solo efforts lately on El cap than in the past. It is those persons that i would try and seek as much advice as possible not only from a technical standpoint on system set ups etc but try and gain some insight into the metal process as well.
|
|
SoloBolo
Boulder climber
Midas, NV
|
|
|
Oct 24, 2010 - 12:16pm PT
|
use the continous loop system
attach your aiders to daisies and keep them clipped to your chest harness. letting them hang really adds to the cluster
soloing is a cluster f#ck... unless your going for speed (i.e. no ledge and either a small pig or backpack)...bottom line.
-the grigri works just fine i've taken all types of imaginable falls on one while soloing and it can be used for SO MUCH on a wall (leading, rapping, hauling)
-i dont have a ton of experience soloing (only 3 el cap routes and prodigal son in 10 hours)but what i did was talk to a few people who knew their stuff and walked up to the captain a few days later and after a 7 day epic with blood, sh#t, Piss, swollen hands and raw hips i topped out. just think about all your systems and answer one question: will this kill me? if the answer is no, continue. if the answer is yes, change something until the answer is no.
 there are many ways to accomplish the same thing when rock climbing do what works best for you.
the only reason i have created mid anchors on a pitch is to keep the rope off of edges over roofs or something. other than that, when your 1000 feet off the deck, a few feet of slack isnt going to make a difference.
just another opinion
|
|
Prod
Trad climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
|
just think about all your systems and answer one question: will this kill me? if the answer is no, continue. if the answer is yes, change something until the answer is no.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Great advice solobolo thanks.
Hey Slakkey,
Thanks for the inpup I'm planning on trying the 2 ladder system this week. I'm also chatting with Mark Hudson a bit on his systems.
Cheers
Prod.
|
|
Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
|
|
prod,
buy 2 long ropes (one for lead line and one for haul / backup lead) and run out your ropes to their end. its amazing how many pitches can be combined when you've no rope drag.
the silent partner is a great solo device, for mixed free / aid.
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
Concur with Mark Hugedong. Get some LONG 5mm prusik loops that you can use to tie Klemheist rebelays - understand how this works, don't increase your fall factors, and practise it a lot as it's difficult to explain, as much an art as a science. Do it right and you will get ZERO abrasion on the rope when you clean/jug the pitch, impossible with a partner.
Don't modify your Grigri for aid climbing.
Practise hauling bags of rocks with a 2:1 so you know you can haul enough food, water and beer to "win by attrition". I see soloists bailing all the time because they weren't able to move as fast as they hoped, and were afraid of running out of supplies. There are any number of ways to set up a 2:1 system wrong, and there is really only one way to make it work right. You really have to practise this - a lot.
Use your rock-filled pig as a "belayer", along with lots of Yates Screamers. In case you haven't figured it out yet, it's quite time-consuming building a [proper] upside-down anchor. It's quite fast and easy with a heavy pig.
Practise setting up your ledge and fly standing in your aiders high above the ground.
If you don't believe the above paragraphs - all you wannabe big wall soloists - mark my words when you reach the base of the wall and can't get your 2:1 hauling system to work because you haven't practised it, or when you are standing in your aiders at two in the morning trying to get your ledge under your rain fly - "I told you so. Dumbass."
Anyway, email me - anyone - for back and forth critique.
|
|
anyuta34
Boulder climber
new york
|
|
He is clear in what He asks and clear in what He offers. The choice is up to us.Isn't it incredible that God leaves the choice up to us? Think about it. There are many things in life we can't choose. We can't, for <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&georestrict=input_srcid:da6deb7c4e365e3d&mid=1288168241">new york asian escorts</a> example, choose the <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=en&georestrict=input_srcid:da6deb7c4e365e3d&mid=1288168241">new york escort</a> weather. We can't control the economy.We can't choose whether or not we are born with a big nose or blue eyes or a lot hair. We can't even choose how people respond to us. But we can choose where we spend eternity.
|
|
Fishy
climber
Zurich, Switzerland
|
|
One related question: what are the most popular methods for dealing with the excess rope during the first half of the pitch?
Backpack? Clips on harness? Rope bag at belay? Rope bag which you tag up and hang on a piece mid-pitch?
Cheers,
Pete.
|
|
426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
|
|
My first wall & Cap route were solo...not recommended. I think I was mad...
I did however do a lot of what you're doing, janking around local crags, dragging bags, "pretending" they got caught, etc...hope for the best. expect the wurst.
If I was to do it over again, I'd look into far end hauling and a bunch of modern (ptpppppp) ways of doing things...I tended to just muscle through stuff that should have been engineered/finessed
Oh yeah, and think about quinine if you cramp. Nothing like hands cramping so bad you *can't* hold a rappel rope (this was b4 grigri)...
|
|
Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
Fishy,
Yes, rope bag at the belay that you tag up mid-pitch. An advantage here is that the haul line is attached to the rope bag so that you don't have to also drag it up the pitch while you are leading.
Check out my "slippery knot and tagging" vid
http://vimeo.com/14130326
|
|
xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
|
|
Fishy, Marks idea is something to consider, I have not used it yet, but it has some merit. I use the Fish Snake Charmer. Life has been much easier on solo since that purchase, rope hooks and slings were a disaster in rope management.
One other thing that has been addressed only slightly. Backup knots. To keep from whistling off the end of the line a backup knot is not only prudent, but mandatory. I used to pull up all the slack I would be willing to fall onto, tie a clove, clip it to my belay loop and go. No longer the case. I tie an alpine butterfly and clip it to my belay loop locker. The reason I don't let it hang is several, but keeping it with me keeps it under control, out of the crack, flake, wind, etc., makes for better feeding through the belay device, and on and on.
Burly Bob
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
Fishy Pete! How's it goin' in Switzerland, eh? Haven't seen you since you and I and Brenda were starting up Dihedral Wall. When are you coming back to the Captain, man? We should do a route!
Here's the system I use, with a sketch of the Solo Tag Rack:
It's the system that Mark so beautifully describes in his video above.
You can see more pictures and descriptions of it in use on the wall:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos/Big_Wall/Dr._Piton_s_Solo_Tag_Rack_Photo_3360.html
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos/Big_Wall/Solo_Tag_Rack_on_The_Shortest_Straw_13044.html
http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos/Big_Wall/Solo_Tag_Rack_on_Lunar_Eclipse_13043.html
Note: The system you see described was invented by Chongo [so far as aware] and you can read about it in his Complete Book of Big Wall Climbing, which EVERY aspiring El Cap soloist should own. Tell him I sent you.
However the Slippery Overhand Backup above the fifi is my invention.
Heed the words of 426 - there is the traditional way, and there is The Better Way.
Cheers,
PTPP
Caveat:
Dr. Piton does not purport to teach The Only Way or The Best Way, merely The Better Way, and The Better Way is whatever works best for you, and does not get you killed. There is great potential for death in the above system should you and your Solo Tag Rack suddenly come hurtling down an A4 pitch simultaneously. The Slippery Overhand Backup Knot is currently Big Wall Theory, because I don't know of anyone [yet] who it has saved. Sometimes it is simply better not to fall.
And some ways are emphatically better than others.
|
|
Fishy
climber
Zurich, Switzerland
|
|
Hi Pete - things are going well. Have managed to do a valley trip most years. Was a fun day at the start of the Dibedral!
Next year I may be flying solo and not have much time - was racking the brain for a short wall to solo - am thinking of the WFLT.
Thanks all for the tagging tips, and the video link! I used a related system once on the Prow - my main question was how commonly is it used? I wondered how many people just dispensed with the whole thing and blasted up quick and simple.
And dont forget all you guys - if coming through Switzerland, dont forget to look me up!
Cheers
Pete.
|
|
Stonewalker
Big Wall climber
Smartsville, Ca
|
|
I agree with ditching the modified gri gri. I have soloed with a unmodified grigri many times. The most important thing to remember with any solo belay device is back up knots. I took a huge whipper while solo climbing with a grigri and because of the way I fell against the rock, the gri gri did not lock off. If it wasn't for my back up knot I would have hit more than just my heel on a ledge. Not sure if this has been mentioned but if so it bears repeating. Back up knots!!!!!
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
Great to hear from you, Pete - definitely write me when you're coming. WFLT is a great route to solo.
And as Stonewalker writes,
ALWAYS tie a backup knot or you will END UP DEAD!
|
|
Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
It wouldn't actually be too hard to not deal with the Tag Rack. You would still have the haul line tied into the (top) end of the lead line and as you kept leading, those ropes would feed out of their rope bags and follow you up. You really would ever have to stop and tag.
Modern aid climbing, being what it is and not 50+ pins per pitch like back when I did most of my walls, the rack is lighter and we tend to use less gear (given the ease of back cleaning) and the SuperTopo topos giving you detailed gear recommendations (not like Roper's green Yosemite guide that described the top third of the Muir in one sentence: "follow the corner for the next thousand feet much A2"). You could easily get away with carrying a bunch of gear.
Given that though, it was nice to have extra food, water, clothes and gear ready whenever I wanted them.
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
And - I hope - like, a beer too, eh?
You can hang most anything off your Solo Tag Rack.
OH! I almost forgot! Mark's idea using the special fifi with the groove in the top is really cool - check it out.
|
|
Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
See how any force pulling down will cause the fifi to set even more so onto the anchor. I don't know why anyone would ever use any other type of fifi.
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
See? SEE?!
He might be an Old Fart, but he's a SMART one. Damn, that's freakin' brilliant. Is the slot in the fifi too narrow to accept a crab, so you have to use a maillon rapide? Please remind me who makes this fifi? Maybe [when I'm as old as you] I might have to do another solo, to become the Oldest Old Fart to solo El Cap.
Now - has anyone yet been SAVED by the Slippery Overhand Backup Knot? Can someone please go solo a hard route, and then fall off?!
Mark - totally forgot to bring your bitchin' PTPP Blend New Guinea Dark coffee here to Sint Maarten. It's hell, I tell you. Had to contaminate the Folger's with huge doses of Bailey's, available at $13 US a litre...
As you get older, you [hopefully] get smarter. But the Journey from Young Bull to Old Bull is just that, a journey, not a destination. Sometimes we regress....
|
|
kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
|
|
|
Mar 29, 2017 - 08:17pm PT
|
some interesting stuff here
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Mar 29, 2017 - 08:37pm PT
|
I've solo aided with the Rock Exotica Soloist a fair bit and the Kleimheist knots per Hudon are the ticket!
And, of course, doing enough of it to know what does and doesn't work per Werner.
PTPP has cool stuff, too. What a cool thread. There's a lot of great ideas here.
Yes, 2 ladders and less cluster.
|
|
Scole
Trad climber
Zapopan
|
|
|
Mar 30, 2017 - 11:24am PT
|
It's a good thing we didn't know all this stuff BITD. We never would have got up anything from fear.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 58 of total 58 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!