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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 16, 2010 - 06:20pm PT
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This superb historical survey of Tahquitz and Suicide climbing appeared in Climbing October 1987.
Greg Epperson covershot of The Natural, Johnny Woodward, on the Pirate (5.12c)!
Three Little Fish to follow...
Classic Largo!
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Oct 16, 2010 - 08:53pm PT
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Thanks Grossman!
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Oct 17, 2010 - 11:45am PT
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It is amazing how many new excellent climbs have been ferreted out at Tahquitz since that article appeared. Bob Gaines is particularly to be credited for his new route efforts.
There are several factual errors and incomplete information (that came to my attention after the article appeared). The information on shoe development in the 1950s and 60s wasn't entirely accurate and Mark Powell's (and others) influence in introducing the Decimal System in Yosemite wasn't really fleshed out.
Also, I think it important to note that the bottom part of Chingadera had not been climbed free by Mark Powell as mentioned, but that Bob Kamps was the force in freeing the entire route and did an amazing job of bolting it on the lead.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2010 - 12:03pm PT
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Stellar effort Randy despite any lingering details! Tahquitz was the center of the free climbing universe for several decades and a indispensable training ground for events in Yosemite. Just made to be climbed and enjoyed!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 17, 2010 - 01:13pm PT
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One other inaccuracy.
"The now welcome bolt" on the Mechanics Route was chopped shortly after it's placement.
Wilts describes it in the guide as having broken in a fall. Since there are no recorded fatalities on the route and surviving the resulting plunge on a manila rope would be a tale of legendary proportion, that was for sure a ruse to prevent an early bolt war.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2010 - 01:32pm PT
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Who has that Mendenhall hanger now?
When Doug and I interviewed Glen Dawson, I read to him this closing comment from Rick Ridgeway's early Tahquitz article posted elsewhere.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/737755/Tahquitz-The-Early-Years-Rick-Ridgeway-Summit-1976
"But the accomplishments of the early climbers still remain. If you want a good adrenalin rush put on a pair of tennis shoes, tie into an old manila rope, and go climb the Mechanic's Route without clipping into that big bolt on the second pitch. You'll probably agree that these guys did some amazing climbs!"
Well into his nineties, Glen settled into a broad, satisfied grin and let out a proud chuckle. What a cool moment! Still badass after all those decades!
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Oct 17, 2010 - 04:25pm PT
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Nice, and large enough to be legible too. Thanks Steve.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Oct 18, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
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Who was that fellow on the "Flower?" He looks like Tom Michael.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2010 - 09:20pm PT
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Kamps Bump!
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Johnny K.
Mountain climber
California
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Oct 20, 2010 - 09:55pm PT
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Amazing article,thank you! The mention of the Hinterstoisser Traverse situation was something else.Thank you again for sharing!
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Flanders!
Trad climber
June Lake, CA
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Oct 30, 2010 - 07:09pm PT
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Tahquitz/Suicide; what a great place ! I imagine it busy yrs. ago, but very quiet now. Was just there
and got to enjoy Randy's "Fred", a rather full value route on the Flinestone Wall.
Doug
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2010 - 01:31pm PT
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Warm dreamy granite bump!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 2, 2011 - 01:45pm PT
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Fun in the sun...Bump!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2011 - 11:51am PT
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Just plain superb climbing and writing!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Ah, the Pirate...
I loved looking at that line. Such a beautiful seam on pure white granite. Way beyond my skilz. I still wonder; is it a crack climb or a slab climb? It was so thin I could barely get the first digit of my pinkies in the pin scars.
Bump
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2011 - 10:40am PT
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Legend has it that a secret scroll exists which details all the moves on the Pirate. It is buried somewhere near Key Largo...under a giant "W."
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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The Pirate- desperately hard no doubt, but, guys and gals, it's a friggin PIN SCAR climb!!! People rant about manufactured holds on climbs but then rave about abominations like the Pirate and Serenity Crack. I know that the pin holes weren't put there with the express purpose of creating holds, but they are there nevertheless.
There should be enough gyms in California to satisfy an apparent need to climb on routes that are not natural.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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People rant about manufactured holds on climbs but then rave about abominations like the Pirate…
Now you’re just being grumpy ;-)
Like everything else in climbing this is situational. The Pirate was an aid line first. Then Yaniro freed it and that was the end of folks nailing it. It’s not like Tony chipped away at it until he could do it. He climbed it the way he found it. Pirate really is a beautiful challenge in a great setting on fine rock.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Can't agree with you on this one. I've seen the Pirate and, to me, pin scars on otherwise pristine granite stand out like a sore thumb and are an unfortunate permanent reminder of the piton placing era of climbing of which I was a part.
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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it is a magical place
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Can't agree with you on this one.
I understand and respect your point. I’ve seen and climbed lots of pinned out cracks which left me feeling much the same way. And of course we have to wonder what would be there today if the line had never been nailed. Perhaps some heinous 5.13 bolted seam / slab? Maybe an unclimbed challenge for the future.
For me though, The Pirate is unique. It is what it is. Yes it’s a reminder of the past, and what was done there cannot be undone, but at the same time The Pirate as it is today can offer a very pure climbing experience. The feature is striking, it is a perfect and direct line, the level of difficulty demands skill and concentration, and the protection is traditional.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Good stuff!
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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Aug 25, 2011 - 02:40pm PT
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Good stuff...even the 2nd time reading it.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2012 - 08:45pm PT
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Ice chunks on the lawn...bump!
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James Wilcox
Boulder climber
The Coast
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Jan 23, 2012 - 11:34pm PT
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If I remember Correctly, Largo's three stories,
including The Edge, graced the same issue.
Easily one of the best issues Climbing ever did.
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Jan 23, 2012 - 11:46pm PT
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Great read, tfpu all these articles from the past, great resource to get some historical perspective. Finally made it out to tahqitz this last year, superb rock ans setting.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2012 - 05:08pm PT
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It really doesn't get much better...Bigger but not better!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2012 - 03:05pm PT
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As mentioned in the OP, Largo's classic Three Little Fish.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2012 - 12:06pm PT
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Three dishes...served HOT!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
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Largo Birthday Bump!
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Jul 21, 2012 - 12:44pm PT
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Can't agree with you on this one. I've seen the Pirate and, to me, pin scars on otherwise pristine granite stand out like a sore thumb and are an unfortunate permanent reminder of the piton placing era of climbing of which I was a part.
Jim, you are certainly free to lament those days, and what pounding pins has done to the rock. On the other hand, it was a pre-clean climbing era. History is full of examples of looking back in disbelief at "what we didn't see then," and to the extent we learn from them--it's great. And I'd say that in general, we have. To envision someone walking up to the base of Outer Limits, for example, with a rack of pins and a hammer swinging from their sling is to envision an absurdity.
I enjoyed Serenity (and have enjoyed lots of classics in Leavenworth, and other places where pins have left their legacy), and my experience on pin-scarred routes is often one of awe (at folks like you) and the span of technical climbing history.
Just my $.02.
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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bump.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2012 - 08:44pm PT
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Pounding and aid climbing generally became uncool so fast that the Pirate never struck me as badly scarred.
It always looked like a great clean aid route.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Aug 18, 2012 - 09:40pm PT
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I loved climbing Suicide. In the seventies there were so few there excepting weekends. Which is pretty much the only times I was there, more's the pity...
The cover shot on this issue of Climbing reminds me no end of the Stigma on The Cookie Cliff. Crack or face climb? A bit of both, it looks like, and both begin at ground zero. Anyone ever grounded on the Pirate?
With no pin scars, lots and lots of routes wouldn't get free axcents. You all realize that. Quit bitching if you ever drove iron. What's done's done and there's no going back. Just be conscious and grateful of the fact we have been rescued from such folly! Though I miss the bong-bong and the sound of a well-seated pin, climbing is fasster without that technology. It's in fact a different game.
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Aug 19, 2012 - 02:00am PT
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“Jim said: Can't agree with you on this one. I've seen the Pirate and, to me, pin scars on otherwise pristine granite stand out like a sore thumb and are an unfortunate permanent reminder of the piton placing era of climbing of which I was a part."
Indeed. Pin scars are a reminder of days gone by when they were in use to the destruction of the rock, and on Serenity first free ascent I did wonder "what the heck" as I used the scars to move along and tried to imagine how it all would have gone (or not) without the scars. An odd and very mixed experience. Thank heavens nuts and cams came along as soon as they did.
As for early 5.11s around the time of Chingadera, I remember vaguely a FFA at JT on Intersection Rock I did way back when, maybe in the general period under discussion which now they say was 5.11, but really, who’s counting at this stage. For me, it's all a cloudy but glowing and deeply satisfying time I recall on the sharp and golden flakes of Tahquitz, bantering with my best climbing partner and lifelong friend Bob Kamps. I'd give back all my "achievements" there for an evening with him now if we could get him back from his ashes, some of which a few years ago I cast under a boulder he and I loved at Stoney Point and which I visit every time I'm in LA.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
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A bump while the master recovers...and his fish wave their tales.
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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(people) rave about abominations like the Pirate and Serenity Crack
I've never heard anyone rave about the pinned out pitch on serenity...it's definitely a rite of passage, but ugly and awkward to climb.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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I'd give back all my "achievements" there for an evening with him now if we could get him back from his ashes
Thanks Tom for posting that comment, the greatest value in life is our health, love and the time to enjoy it together.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Climbing content bump
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Very cool, hadn't seen the original "Three Little Fish" article with photos before.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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The Edge. Yowza!
Mark Wagner, Ian Katz and I went up to do the Turbo Flange variation. Mark led the 1st pitch. Ian and I followed cleanly. P2,The Edge, was mine. I set off from the belay and climbed confidently up to the bulge I would surmount to get to the first drilling stance, where Tobin Sorenson so famously broke broke his drill bit.
When we began climbing the sun was hiding behind Tahquitz Peak, but by now it was high and hot. Each time I started to move up the thing felt worse, and I came to the realization that were I to commit I would take the last fall of my life. Would I sail off to the right to become a pile of bones at the start of The Open Book, or leave a long red streak down the slab on the left? I carefully down-climbed back to the belay.
Mark looked at me with an insane grin. He climbed up to the crux and launched into it without hesitation. I'd never seen anything like it, he was falling off the entire way through it. He sketched it all the way through and wailed like a banshee when it was over. Following I didn't fall, a fact which Mark made good hay out of for he rest of the day.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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^^^
That's a great story.
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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That is a very cool story Kris. The Edge is a certainly memorable route.
An interesting fact about the 'first drilling stance' story on The Edge is that there is a really good no hands stance about midway between the two bolts on the edge itself. It's about 2-3 feet left of the arête. Maybe Tobin blew past due to tunnel vision. It's the kind of stance where you mutter to yourself, "dammit, why didn't he drill here?" Now everyone has the beta and should go do it.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Love that story! Thanks Kris. Funny, some days you just don't have it, others you could crush block walls. The Edge is such a beautiful line.....wish I had the skills to tackle it. Hope I can garner the skills before I no longer have those kind of good days. Either way its all good though. I appreciate the history, stories, and the area in general.
Edit; I should say, that after a close inspection that Edge line is terrifyingly beautiful.
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Mark Wagner, Ian Katz and I went up to do the Turbo Flange variation. Mark led the 1st pitch. Ian and I followed cleanly. P2,The Edge, was mine. I set off from the belay and climbed confidently up to the bulge I would surmount to get to the first drilling stance, where Tobin Sorenson so famously broke broke his drill bit.
When we began climbing the sun was hiding behind Tahquitz Peak, but by now it was high and hot. Each time I started to move up the thing felt worse, and I came to the realization that were I to commit I would take the last fall of my life. Would I sail off to the right to become a pile of bones at the start of The Open Book, or leave a long red streak down the slab on the left? I carefully down-climbed back to the belay.
Kris,
Where did you guys belay? I've done the original line a one and a half times, but never the Turbo Flange variation. I figure you could reach the double bolt belay from the ground no problem. There are no bolts that I recall on the second pitch. I'm having trouble picturing where you decided to downclimb from. Correct me if I'm wrong; the Turbo Flange solos some 5.8 to the Largo bolt. Crank 11c moves and run it on 11- to Tobin's first bolt on the edge where he traversed in from the left. Run it 35-40 feet to the last bolt (the infamous broken bit). One more 35-40 foot run gets you to a double bolt belay at a sloping stance. Continue up the arête for twenty feet with no pro to a good stance where you can fiddle in some wires, work up and left, and belay below Traitor Horn's final pitch.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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We belayed at a good anchor perhaps a bit below where the original line traverses in. It could be that it belonged to one of those routes up the steep wall left of open book. It was nice 3/8" bolts. My mind is a little fuzzy as to their exact location, but the next pitch went on up to the "broken bit" bolt and up to the anchor.
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Jon Clark
climber
philadelphia
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Referencing the latest edition of the Vogel/Gaines guide, that looks like the shared anchor for Bibliography, The Glossary, Hedgehog, The Hedge, and Turbo Flange. According to Largo's "Three Little Fish" article, the broken bit bolt is the final bolt before the two bolt belay at the end of the original line's first real pitch (not counting the portion of Jensen's Jaunt approach pitch).
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Yinzer
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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my hands started sweating profusely reading about 'the edge'...
I always check on open book when I walk around the back though I've never climbed it. Somehow that edge line seemed like a maybe-doable never ending palmy bouldery lieback. That's awesome that it has essential Tahquitz history baked into it. I'm a Tahquitz n00b but I love it, respect the history, and have probably 8 visits under my belt now?
great article / thanks for the scan / bump
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2016 - 01:46pm PT
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Bump for SoCal's finest...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2018 - 03:47pm PT
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Vogel Bump...
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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Mar 25, 2018 - 04:18pm PT
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Bump for Tom Higgins...post #37 on this thread. As with most of his postings, thoughtful with a great historical perspective.
Quote “Jim said: Can't agree with you on this one. I've seen the Pirate and, to me, pin scars on otherwise pristine granite stand out like a sore thumb and are an unfortunate permanent reminder of the piton placing era of climbing of which I was a part."
Indeed. Pin scars are a reminder of days gone by when they were in use to the destruction of the rock, and on Serenity first free ascent I did wonder "what the heck" as I used the scars to move along and tried to imagine how it all would have gone (or not) without the scars. An odd and very mixed experience. Thank heavens nuts and cams came along as soon as they did.
As for early 5.11s around the time of Chingadera, I remember vaguely a FFA at JT on Intersection Rock I did way back when, maybe in the general period under discussion which now they say was 5.11, but really, who’s counting at this stage. For me, it's all a cloudy but glowing and deeply satisfying time I recall on the sharp and golden flakes of Tahquitz, bantering with my best climbing partner and lifelong friend Bob Kamps. I'd give back all my "achievements" there for an evening with him now if we could get him back from his ashes, some of which a few years ago I cast under a boulder he and I loved at Stoney Point and which I visit every time I'm in LA.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo Here
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2018 - 04:38pm PT
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The second route that I did on Tahquitz was Jonah to get a taste of Tom's talent. I really had a great time on it after having spent lots of time at Suicide in preparation.
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