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Disaster Master
Sport climber
Arcata / Santa Rosa, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 6, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
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PROTECT YOUR TRAD CLIMB LIKE A SPORT CLIMB, by PAUL “DISASTER MASTER” HUMPHREY
OK everyone. I have been holding this close to my chest for years, but now is the time to reveal.........
The “Over The Hump'” industries TRICK CLIP. (pat. pend.) Those who dain to sport climb often use a “STICK CLIP” to put up draws, protect opening moves, but what about a gear lead? Or a clean aid line? Or rescuing someone sans bolts?
The “Trick Clip” can place AND REMOVE any spring loaded camming device, including slider nuts, TCUs, single stem cams, U-stem cams, even climb tec's Removable Bolts. It works from micros all the way up to off width cams! You can place and remove trad gear as high over your head as your pole is long.
THIS IS NOT A JOKE.
I have used it quite well outside to protect cruxy trad starts, and to get directionals etc in while establishing new routes.
I came up with the idea in the late 1990's when RB's came out. I used them instead of bolts on some climbs, but whining sport climbers said they sucked because you couldn't stick clip them, among other issues.
“OH, Yeah?” I went to work and invented a hand on a stick. The unit is composed of a spine, two fingers and a thumb. A cord runs from the thumb through the fingers assembly, then down to a cord lock on the base of the pole. Simply select your cam, adjust the angle of the unit on the pole. Place the cam in the Fingers / Thumb assembly. Pull back on the cord. This pushes the thumb forward, compressing the cams. The cord lock holds the tension in place. The springs in the cam itself provide the opposing force.
Now with gear pretty darn secure in the unit, clip your rope through the 'biner, just like a sport stick clip. Extend the pole up to you gear placement of choice. Place cam in crack where appropriate. Release cord lock. This causes the cam to spring open in the crack, filling the void nicely if you picked the right size. The cam is now placed and loose from the device. Move the hand to the side and there ya go! The cam is placed. The rope is up. Bounce test the placement then climb on!
Of course, this will take practice and not all gear placements will be straight forward enough to work. So what! Most of the time you end up with an unseen but bounce tested piece. Better than nothing when decking is an issue.
Think of the applications.... Really, think about it.
The prototype is stripped down and cobbled together from many experiments. I also have attachments to allow it to do the carabiner stick clip thing, both placing and removing draws.
THIS TOOL IS PATENT PENDING. IF YOU WANT TO MANUFACTURE / MARKET IT OR WANT THE RIGHTS? I WANT MY CUT.! Don't rip me off, please.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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werd, it's not a cheat stick if used in big wallin, eh?
how about a video of this puppy in action Paul?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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What's wrong with a bow and arrow, and grappling hook?
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Disaster Master
Sport climber
Arcata / Santa Rosa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2010 - 04:29pm PT
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No vids yet, but it really works. Iv'e used it at J tree to protect the first moves of a crux before the first gear. Call it cheating if you want, but it also clips in quick draws too. So Cosmic will only neeed the TRICK CLIP. Make your own.
If you cant figure it out from the pics, e-mail me and we will talk.
EDIT: Ha, ha to the bow and arrow comment. I used crossbows and line to access trees.
BUT WE ARE TALKING ACTUAL REAL ROCK CLIMBING APPLICATIONS, not pie in the sky gag gear.
Rock on,
Paul.
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Disaster Master
Sport climber
Arcata / Santa Rosa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2010 - 04:40pm PT
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Clint,
The "Lovetron" was a steerable skyhook for bleak aid on blank faces.
My "Trick Clip" is more of an all-round tool. It can place free-climbable, fall-on-able pro, not just a teetering hook. It was originaly intended to pre-place CLIMB TECH Removable Bolts, slider nuts for drilled holes. This is because I was using them for sea cliff sport climbs, and wanted to make RB's use as close to the ease of fixed bolts at a crag as I could. Found out they work just as good with cams.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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What's the story with the stained chair?
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Disaster Master
Sport climber
Arcata / Santa Rosa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2010 - 04:59pm PT
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Its a leather chair in Jim Donini's guest studio. I'm just visiting!
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adatesman
Trad climber
philadelphia, pa
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Following from EKat's question, in case you're unaware claiming "Patent Pending" without having filed a provisional patent app is kinda frowned upon, by which I mean a big-time no-no of the fine and jail variety. I can't tell if you're joking or not, but figured it I might mention it in case you are serious and didn't know.
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MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
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Pretty Cool!
The first person that comes to mind is Malcolm Daly, who owns Trango. He goes by "Malady" on this board. He would be a good person to talk to about this: feasibility, marketing, manufacturing, patenting, etc.
Erik
Edited: sorry, I got the handle wrong - good luck
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Disaster Master
Sport climber
Arcata / Santa Rosa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2010 - 11:00pm PT
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Thanks for the tip Erik. I e mailed Malaldy, couldn't find MAL.
Patent search complete. provisional app. in a while go. pending........
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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How about putting a camera on that rig to make sure it is placed right.
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cody hall
Sport climber
apple valley
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Do you have to keep tension on the cord for the cam to stay up-right?
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Disaster Master
Sport climber
Arcata / Santa Rosa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2010 - 12:47am PT
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a cord lock at the base of the pole holds tension on the cord and keeps the cam in place. you have both hands free to manuver the pole and gear into the best placement. The rig holds the cam more securely than you might think.
Locker, funny, but pie in the sky. I am talking reality here.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Disaster-
Has your submission been published yet?
If so, you are patent pending and have a time sensitive lock on the idea, provided you filed first. Even if someone has something similiar, you can modify the description of the utility of your invention.
Cool idea,
I assume removal is limted to crack size? Small cams, larger device?
Way to turn the wheel on your idea, hope you get the pat #
Mucci
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Petch
Gym climber
knapsack crack
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Sweet invention. I think it should be called Humphrey's Helping Hand!
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Oxymoron
Big Wall climber
total Disarray
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Good suggestion, Petch.
Cool device.
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Neat stuff. I've placed wires several times with a sticky to prevent a bone chattering fall (first 15' don't count in the rating down this way), but like your "ingenue" here...
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adatesman
Trad climber
philadelphia, pa
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Has your submission been published yet?
They only publish provisionals when a full patent is submitted that references it.
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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Methinks I'd rather boulder out the first moves rather than trusting a placement that may or may not be secure with your deal. The not-knowing overrides the relatively few feet that it would protect.
Now if you could put it on say, a 50 foot deal, then it might actually be worth it. . .
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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"They only publish provisionals when a full patent is submitted that references it."
In order to be patent pending, you must have submitted your "non-Provisional"
So I guess I did not understand disaster, I assumed since he claimed "Patent Pending" He had already submitted his NP application.
I have 2 items that are being reviewed finally after 3 years. Both are "Patent Pending" and thus "published" for research.
A provisional just marks the date of the invention, allowing 1 year to submit a NP.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Wow, My attorneys had told me otherwise.
Provisional Apps expire in 1 year making the item "Public Domain".
Once I was Published, the patent office sent a letter explaining the research process, then barring any conflicts, I would be issued a patent #.
That link was very helpful in answering a few questions.
Once you are "Published", you are essentially locked in and any production of your product outside your scope is cause for a lawsuit.
Or so I have been told by my expensive team of lawmen :)
Thanks for the info Arik!
Edited to say provisional expires in 1 year. Not 12 years as previously posted.
whooops!
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adatesman
Trad climber
philadelphia, pa
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No prob, Mucci. It's a very confusing process with a lot of conflicting info out there, which makes life difficult for folks like us. Personally I found "Patent It Yourself" by David Pressman to be quite helpful in getting a grasp on it all. My patent attorney, not so helpful and horribly expensive to boot.
-aric.
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martygarrison
Trad climber
The Great North these days......
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I just find this kinda sad
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Outside
Trad climber
Truckee
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Hey Paul
Did you invent the removable bolt? Or who did? I don't think they have ever been seen here on the taco.......very cool idea I thought.
Peace
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Disaster Master
Sport climber
Arcata / Santa Rosa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2010 - 02:26pm PT
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Sweet invention. I think it should be called Humphrey's Helping Hand! Why diddn't I think of that?! I like it. Could lead to off color jokes, though. (even better!)
To patent questions: I will say no more about legal questions. It's good, don't mess with my intilectual property. This post is an act of generosity and information.
Did you invent the removable bolt? Or who did? I don't think they have ever been seen here on the taco.......very cool idea I thought.
No. The RB was invented by the founders of Climb Tech industries, carl guthrie and joe shwartz. (?) spelling / names might not be quite right.
I was an early adoptor, got a bunch, used them, wrote about them in Rock and Ice Mag. (issue #94 maybe???!!!)"TO RB or NOT to RB".
Loved them for some things. Not as great for other things. Just like any other gear. Its a tool box, right?
C-ya,
Paul Humphrey
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Oct 11, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
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What Marty said. . .
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Oct 11, 2010 - 03:12pm PT
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I've used an Epic stick clip to place cams from a distance for quite a number of years. You can jam most cams (BD, Wild Country, and Metolius) in the ears and the trigger fits below the first horizontal piece while the stem butts up against the bottom one. Works well.
http://www.epicsport.com/products.300.html
Cheers,
-Brian in SLC
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Disaster Master
Sport climber
Arcata / Santa Rosa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2010 - 03:36pm PT
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I just find this kinda sad
Absolutly, It is sad. In fact it is evil. But as a preachers son, I must follow the Dark Lord.
DISASTER MASTER
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Oct 11, 2010 - 04:01pm PT
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The Dark Lord has the Sack to put in his own Pro. . .
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 11, 2010 - 04:06pm PT
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cool aid thingy. what's this have to do with trad climbing?
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Oct 11, 2010 - 04:16pm PT
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That is so TRADitional...
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Oct 11, 2010 - 04:26pm PT
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Does the "Disaster Master" refer to himself in the third person?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 11, 2010 - 04:27pm PT
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Write up a full set of plans and instructions. And sell it as an ebook.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Oct 11, 2010 - 06:13pm PT
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Am I the only doddering old fart who thinks that gear is supposed to be placed by climbers, not by gadgets on poles?
Never mind...carry on, lads.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Oct 11, 2010 - 06:19pm PT
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Maybe the only old fart who's never hit the ground at the start of a route for lack of a stick clip and busted an ankle?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 11, 2010 - 06:34pm PT
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If you established a free route using the gadget, how would you describe it? Anything goes sport climbing but to attach the word "trad" is absurd. Still a cheater stick...
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Oct 11, 2010 - 08:28pm PT
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"Maybe the only old fart who's never hit the ground at the start of a route for lack of a stick clip and busted an ankle?"
No there are hundreds, if not thousands, of those old farts.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 11, 2010 - 10:47pm PT
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The schtick you save, may be your own...
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Oct 11, 2010 - 10:54pm PT
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That thing is COOL!!!
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Oct 11, 2010 - 11:03pm PT
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Boo. Hisssssssss! Boo! Hiss!
Shame. Multi pitch stick clipping. I've seen it clog long, moderate climbs by folks who prolly shouldn't be on the route in the first place.
Flame me please.
Arne
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 11, 2010 - 11:06pm PT
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Humjob- If anyone needs to cheat, it is certainly you!
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Oct 11, 2010 - 11:11pm PT
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multi pitch stick clipping?
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Oct 11, 2010 - 11:54pm PT
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So, I can stick-clip the second pitch from the ground?
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Disaster Master
Sport climber
Arcata / Santa Rosa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2010 - 12:32am PT
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So many people so firmly in the box.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 12, 2010 - 01:04am PT
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And you are the future, I presume?!?
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Disaster Master
Sport climber
Arcata / Santa Rosa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2010 - 03:57pm PT
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Nope, just a smart-ass with a stick. Happy climbing! :)
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 13, 2010 - 12:34am PT
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Happy Clipping...
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MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
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Oct 13, 2010 - 01:14am PT
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What ever happened to letting people find their own way? And supporting it?
Are we so entrenched in our beliefs and prejudices that we disallow this?
Where did live and let live become my way or the highway?
(Obviously, a while ago sociologically speaking)
If there were a disabled person using this device to make his/her dream ascent of a climb they couldn't do otherwise, would you feel the same way?
Just questions - I don't presume, like many of you, to have THE answer.
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Disaster Master
Sport climber
Arcata / Santa Rosa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2010 - 01:28am PT
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Thank you, Mister E.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Oct 13, 2010 - 01:33am PT
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personally, i would never buy one as a ground up route deserves some respect IMHO. but if you want to use one i don't give a sh#t...it does not hurt my climbing experience.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Oct 13, 2010 - 01:54am PT
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Disabled person? Hey, I resemble that remark!
And I do want the ability to clip over the difficult stuff. But I think that stick is too limited. I'm waiting for the "Jim Donini Ropegun" model.
I hear its killer.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 13, 2010 - 02:14am PT
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You should go into business with Weld_it. He likes making stuff.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Oct 13, 2010 - 05:43pm PT
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If it saves someone from decking or putting in a bolt, that is good. But you can't claim a redpoint after using this.
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Oct 13, 2010 - 06:00pm PT
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Yes, Rich, here's another old fart who thought placing pro, even when difficult or dangerous, was as much a rewarding part of the climbing as the climbing. Way old school I know, but seemed so satisfying to get pro in off the deck with a wobbly sigh of relief, or in the middle of hard moves higher along, staying with the same challenges as the FA party, loving them and cursing them on the spot and back at camp where big laughs and hoots go on ... all that.
Of course, one pays for such quirky pleasure, sometimes in heated arguments with partners who see no problem with those stick clips, sometimes with other consequences off the deck when the pro won't go and then you must decide with withering arms to down climb or go on, and wind up falling into the North Sea trying that first ascent, and break a heel and get freezing wet and hobble around your subsequent Scotland tour in a cast with a somewhat grumpy wife, all because the little bitsy nuts you got in were lousy and you knew it but couldn't hang in there long or well enough to get them solid, and tried to down climb and time the coming splash to when the waves were in rather than out but missed that timing and hit jutting rocks ...
Days of old, fond in memory, but not so smart. My better choice: leave the FA for other stronger, better ones to come. Turns out one did come along two years later and get that FA, and since then the Scots around Aberdeen have a tale to tell in the pubs of how one of their own did what the American visitor couldn't. Of course, now it is not hard to see that is a perfectly wonderful and fitting outcome as the days turn for all of us and the better and better come along, and it was good to be sobered as a whippersnapper of the day learning slowly, reluctantly, there is no eternal fame or body, and perfectly wonderful for the hardy and hard climbers of that part of the world and their rich climbing lore. So we see, all is not lost, in fact much gained, as we embrace some dangers and stupidities of climbing, provided we live to reflect upon them.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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Disaster Master
Sport climber
Arcata / Santa Rosa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2010 - 12:38am PT
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Why is everyone talking about first ascents? Who said that is what this is for? It's not a one thing tool. Man, it's like listening to a game of Telephone around here.
Who cares about first ascents? It's for any situation YOU wish. Yeah, you, not everyone else.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 14, 2010 - 12:03pm PT
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Thanks for the tale Tom! The quality of one's climbing experience is/was of paramount importance to many of us. Frigging just gets in the way...
MR. MOD- The FA framework is simply a device to put the gizmo's use in some kind of context. Since you give yourself unlimited personal freedom with the thing, that would potentially include an FA, would it not?
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Oct 14, 2010 - 05:34pm PT
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Disaster,
My post rambled across both first and subsequent ascent experiences. As I said, for some of us, doing an established ascent and facing the same protection challenges as the FA team brings the quirky pleasure I describe. The history, lore, tales, oral and written tracks, interaction and sharing with others who have climbed the route first (and thereafter too) all combine to make for the totality of satisfaction in climbing. I realize for others the satisfaction may be primarily if not exclusively in the climb itself.
For first ascents, again some of us get satisfaction where protection is difficult and would prefer wrestling with that difficulty instead of making it easier by a stick, whether off the deck or higher up. Here, obviously, the satisfaction comes not in reflecting on the travails of the FA or subsequent teams, but in the work and ingenuity required to get the pro in.
So, I address both situations in the post, though admittedly my tale of days in Scotland focused on the FA experience. More generally, I hoped to paint some general lessons about the consequences good and bad of the climbing style choices we make with protection. Looking back, it seems the ramble was pretty rambling, so probably not all was clear.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 14, 2010 - 06:14pm PT
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Thanks, Tom - a nice story and helpful thoughts.
Sadly, some climbers don't understand that one of the fears in climbing that must be managed is fear of the unknown. Those who insist on being spoon fed route details will never experience all of climbing's challenges.
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Oct 14, 2010 - 06:18pm PT
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Way to represent that AWESOME SPIRIT
you have, Paul. Keep it up!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Oct 14, 2010 - 08:20pm PT
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I've pushed my limits trying to reach decent pro.
I've had rope guns take me up stuff I could never lead. I had fun following on TR.
I used a stick clip, only once I think, to snag a bleached shoelace on a piece of fixed pro, then I had to climb up two aiders hooked together on that thing, one of the most scary things I've done.
I've had tons of beta on climbs that allowed me to push myself to another level.
I've had no beta on other climbs or FAs.
It's all been fun and rewarding. I'd hate to set up abritrary rules that would limit me to only specific types of challenges.
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