Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 118 of total 118 in this topic |
JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 1, 2010 - 08:53pm PT
|
It’s been a real busy summer for me, and I apologize for not having more of a presence on this crucial forum of ideas, dialogue, and newsworthy moments.
This thread falls under the newsworthy category.
On Tuesday, August 24th, Yosemite Park dispatch received a report of climbers around Camp IV on the Nose calling for help. The reporting party also said that there was rockfall observed previous to the incident. It was already late in the day, but we decided to fly 8 rescuers to the top of El Cap to rig and prepare for rescuing the injured climber in the morning.
Although there are several uncertainties about what really happened (lost in translation…), this is basically what had happened. It was a party of 4 Korean climbers, and the leader of the team had pulled a huge block off in the Grey Bands. He was climbing a variation marked as “5.10a not recommended” in Supertopo Big Walls on the pitch before Camp IV. The block landed on his legs and rope, basically crushed his Femur (he had multiple fractures), and did this to his rope:
After completing our rigging on Wednesday morning we lowered Ranger-medics Jack H. and Lober down to the injured climber with a litter, they packaged him up, and gave him some pain meds. A little side note: when Jack and Keith arrived on scene the climber was not wearing his harness, and was clipped in only to his wall style double gear-sling. Because of the severity of his injury (we did not know the extent of his injury before Jack and Keith got down to him) we elected to short haul him off the wall using the park helicopter. Check out the photo below of Lober’s “E-ticket” ride.
The rest of the climbing team was not capable of finishing the route or descending on their own, and we spent the rest of the day lowering them off the wall. More stories about that later...
I had been planning to do a combined SAR training and Camp 6 clean up (Nose Wiping as we like to call it) this week. However, given that we had 12 SAR siters from Tuolumne and the Valley, all of the gear we needed, and a whole bunch of psyche to pull it off, we bivied on top of the Capitan one more night. The next morning we lowered Sam Piper and myself down to Camp 6 with 2 empty Grade VI haul bags, a sh-t hook, hazmat suits, trash bags, face masks, and thick gloves. We pulled out about 100 pounds of crap, ropes, trash, and mysterious other substances never before seen (or smelled) by mankind.
Here are some more photos of that trip.
More later...up-loader not working on gov. computer.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Thank you, Jesse and team! Very good work - although the news about Camp VI is a bit disappointing. Is there more/less/unchanged from what was there the last time you did a nosewipe? Also, is there any need to return during the FaceLift, either to the Nose or any other route (Salathe?), to clean up? I'd be happy to help.
this crucial forum of ideas, dialogue, and newsworthy moments. You may be thinking of someone else. :-)
|
|
Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
|
|
Thanks for the report Jesse. Wow.
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
|
|
Camp VI makes me sad.
It shouldn't need repeated wipes, but I'm glad you got it done(this time, eh?).
Loved the pics.
|
|
JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2010 - 09:06pm PT
|
MH/Anders,
There is less and less every year we get up there. We are now down 6 feet at least, and into historic trash from the '80s.
I'll try to post some more photos later.
|
|
jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
|
|
Yaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!!!!!
Way to go Jesse and others! You guys are RAD!!!
C VI was NASTY!!!
I hope climbers respect it more from now on.
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
Crazy. Thanks for the cleanup guys!
|
|
Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
|
|
Great work Jesse.
Say, can we use the helicopter at facelift?
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
to ranger jesse:
it'd be hard to believe that the NPS hasn't noticed the interest on supertopo over the ammon mcneely tasering incident. i personally believe the public is owed a statement on its behavior. tasering has gotten to be one of the ugliest things that police do.
i'm assuming yosemite rangers have been following the discussion here. rangers are known to do that with just about every blog page involving the activities they deal with, but they rarely involve themselves in discussions they cannot control.
tasering is a disturbing and violent response to anything except violent crime itself. i'm not a particular fan of BASE, but there's much climber-BASE crossover, and there seem to be many examples where jumpers' interests and enthusiasms can be accommodated--the new river gorge jump day an example.
jesse, i'm afraid i see you playing good cop to some bad cops. it would be refreshing to see some engagement of the BASE community by the NPS, discussion of behavior, park concerns, and some working towards resolution of an issue which probably won't be going away. without some forthright handling of this matter, we'll be looking forward to the escalation of a keystone cops comedy--except that more tasering could well make it a tragedy.
TB
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
Good work. Thanks!
And post more photos please.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
|
|
What a report.
Thanks Jesse. Would love to see a lot more from you around here.
It's so good, and so crucial to keep the lines open to "The Man", ya know what I mean?
Thanks again!!
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
Jesse, nice work! On the rescues and the cleanup.
It's got to be disgusting work....good on ya!
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
Well done Jesse on the rescue and the clean up
You've gone down through 6feet of s(*T at C6?
And still more?
That's almost unbelievable.
+1 on what Tony Bird just said.
|
|
james Colborn
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
|
|
Camp VI made me hate climbers.
Piss, sh#t, and trash. I got dry heaves when I got on the ledge, I would have puked for real had I not run out of water earlier in the day. There were at least 4 gatorade bottles shoved in the crack all filled with piss. That was just what was on top and visible. I couldn't sleep that night because my nose was filled with the odor of the ledge and I just could not shake it. We took as much garbage that would fit into our bag. F*#kers!
Who is doing this?
Thanks Jesse for taking the time and making the effort to clean that mess up. I owe you a beer or six.
James
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
I think we all owe a debt of gratitude to the job Jesse and the National Park Service is doing. It would be very easy for NPS people, personally, to wish they saw fewer of us, and we would detect it immediately. Indeed many of us would prefer there were not quite so many.
It is very hard to be a gracious host when guests, occasionally unappreciative, keep coming without a break.
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
Good work Jesse -- both on the rescue and the clean-up.
And sympathy to the guy you pulled out. Can't have been much fun spending half a day, then a night, then part of a morning on a wall with a badly crushed femur. He may have been begging his partners to cut off his harness, but man, I'd have been begging them to untie me and throw me off.
|
|
BeeHay
Trad climber
San Diego CA
|
|
This is Public Service at it's best. I lodged at VI in the '80s, I can assure that none of that "history" is mine!
I wish the base thing could stay outta here, there are 2 threads on the topic already...
Brad
|
|
MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
|
|
Thanks for joining the fray again here, Jesse. Looks like quite a pull off the nose, but you look fresh in the hazmat suit and cheater stick...I mean sh-thook.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
We are now down 6 feet at least, and into historic trash from the '80s.
Historic Trash. Ha ha ha.
Better dredge it out before it gets designated an historic site.
Thanks for a job well done.
+2 for what Tony said.
|
|
Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
|
|
Having never made it that far, I still want to share my appreciation to you and the others...excellent work all around!
Many climbers (like fishermen-er, anglers) are just f*king slobs.
oh ya more pictures!
Cheers,
DD
|
|
LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
|
|
good to see what you guys are up to..been relying on the coffee as well
|
|
MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
|
|
So sad that this thread got tainted so fast.
That sucks.
|
|
MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
|
|
No one commenting here knows what went on.
Tony "i'm assuming" just makes you an ass.
No government offical that wants to keep their job would comment here.
Surprised Jesse even posted once on the other thread. Not a good call.
These threads of ranger bashing and speculation are a waste of their time for sure.
|
|
Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
|
|
Someday, somehow, someone needs to rap that route with a super, high-pressure washer and REALLY blast it clean. 50+ years and thousands of ascents means plenty of bowel movemets, piss, vomit, blood, semen (it does get lonely up there...), food, beer, tampons, and everything else we climbers seem to "forget" along the way.
|
|
MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
|
|
The Government has spoken. No BASE in Yosemite.
"jesse, i'm afraid i see you playing good cop to some bad cops. it would be refreshing to see some engagement of the BASE community by the NPS, discussion of behavior, park concerns, and some working towards resolution of an issue which probably won't be going away. without some forthright handling of this matter, we'll be looking forward to the escalation of a keystone cops comedy--except that more tasering could well make it a tragedy."
TB
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
MTucker
You're in the wrong fuking thread dude.
Get with it man.
You ain't got a fuking clue either by posting in this thread and ragging on Jesse who hasn't got anything to do with your problem.
Now git your ass over there and do your bitching there .....
|
|
F10
Trad climber
e350 / Bishop
|
|
Thank you
|
|
MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
|
|
Eye witness studies have shown that they are rarely reliable.
Even when witnesses see the exact same thing, their stories are different on the stand.
In the heat of the moment with split second reactions...............
|
|
Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
|
|
Good job Jesse! Glad you did what you did. And sad that other did what they did and that you had to clean it all up.
|
|
Dirka
Trad climber
SF
|
|
Props for the clean up and rescue!
|
|
MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
|
|
Stick it Werner
Tell the same to Tony.
I definitely didn't attack Jesse.
Stick it Weld.
I was talking about Tony's thread hijacking fool.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
you won't find any of my sh#t at camp V1...i always wear diapers when i climb or ski...i'm usually having too much fun to stop and grit one out in the bog...as for cleaning the captain , i think a dc-10 fire-fighter with a load of water would be a much more efficient was of flushing the nose...rj
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
thanks Jesse and Sam for doing a really nasty job...
I recall at the Face Lift history both that anything over 50 years old is "historic" and since the FA of the Nose was over 50 years ago, do you have to leave the last little bit of stuff at Camp VI? (I think that's a rhetorical question)...
Looking forward to seeing you guys at the FaceLift
|
|
Studly
Trad climber
WA
|
|
Another amazing Yosar rescue pulled off flawlessly, kudos!
Also, Jesse and Sam should get a medal for the Camp 6 project..above and beyond the call. Thank you.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
anything over 50 years old is "historic"
So they dig up a petrified turd from the FA party and display it in Kens museum?
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
just sayin', Werner...
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Just joking Ed.
And
"Another amazing Yosar rescue pulled off flawlessly, .... "
Not really. There were some technical problems ....
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
i didn't attack jesse, i challenged him. he's a public servant. i have every right to raise an issue like this.
we've had two long discussion threads groping in the dark about what really happened, and there has been no NPS statement either about the tasering or what's so bad about BASE jumping in yosemite.
tasering is an affront to the sacred ground of yosemite. it can be a humane device in extreme circumstances and should be reserved for that. i am angered to see law enforcement using it as a tool of intimidation. a good officer knows how to engage people. a good administrator might figure out a better way of dealing with the local interest in BASE.
and if camp 6 has become such a damn pigsty, why isn't it a major project for facelift? i frankly don't think it should be the rangers' job to be doing that for climbers. cleaning up after ourselves used to be part of our ethic.
whoops--i owe jesse a word of apology here--i didn't realize he had posted on one of the mcneely threads--he did so yesterday and i missed it and wouldn't have raised the issue here if i had known that. his response there was entirely appropriate to the situation and it's appreciated.
jesse said it isn't appropriate for him to be involved in this case at this time, and that's understood. however it appears that the link to official documents isn't working well, and i would ask that the NPS consider making a statement about what happened. as i stated previously in that same thread, official press releases are common in unusual cases and this would appear to warrant it.
|
|
mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
|
|
A big Thank you for you hard work, season after season!
Speechless as to the effort involved by you and your crew.
Mucci
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
|
|
noyce!
|
|
Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
Thanks, Jesse.
on this crucial forum of ideas, dialogue, and newsworthy moments.
Yeah, that was pretty funny.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
Yow!
Mysterious vapors?
Who ya gonna call?
|
|
atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
|
|
Thanks for the clean-up and rescue. Camp VI is so awesome, but so f*#ked up. Its really appreciated.
|
|
murcy
climber
sanfrancisco
|
|
Stepping up big time.
|
|
elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
|
|
Great work on the rescue and the Nose wipe. Props to Keith and Jack for the job they do saving climbers asses while risking their own lives. YOSAR RULES!!!
As for the rude BASE people posting on this thread... you have a couple of threads already on your concerns with the Ammon situation and jumping in general... make some friends instead of enemies and don't muck up threads you are not involved in.
|
|
Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
|
|
YosBusters!!!
Thanks,
Thor
Awesome helo shot!!!
|
|
crunch
Social climber
CO
|
|
"We are now down 6 feet at least, and into historic trash from the '80s"
That's exciting; hey, if you happen to come across my old Flock of Seagulls cassette ...
|
|
pc
climber
|
|
That is some evil sh#t to dig out. Thanks for the great effort.
|
|
Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
|
|
Many thanks.
In other places, park rangers do not participate in rescues. Glad to see that is supported and not taken for granted.
Cleaning up after ourselves and others is essential to keeping public lands open for climbing. My fantasies about climbing the Nose never reflected the realities that you describe. There aren't as many excuses we can use here about being in the death zone, etc.I'd like to see more public recognition of the selfless folks that haul out others trash.
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
Thanks for a great job, guys! I haven't needed you yet, and hope I never do, but it's comforting to know you're there.
Cheers,
Pete
|
|
RobTheis
Trad climber
Los Altos, CA
|
|
Thank you guys for doing the cleanup. I was there on 4th July week and it was truly sad. Used a portaledge above it to avoid the smell and it partially worked.
|
|
Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
|
|
I just had a vision of you guys dropping that sh-t hook.
Man! If I were at the base and that thing skewered into the ground next to me at 200 mph I think I would consider golf as my pastime of choice.
Happy to see you have that dagger tied in!
|
|
Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
|
|
Thanks for all that you do. Great Job
|
|
10b4me
Ice climber
Happy Boulders
|
|
thanks Jesse.
I hope to make it to Facelift some year to help out
|
|
Ottawa Doug
Social climber
Ottawa, Canada
|
|
Hey Jesse,
Thanks a ton for the update. Amazing rescue that YOSAR pulled off flawlessly. Congratulations! As others have said, I haven't needed your rescue services to this point, (and hope I never do) but knowing your team is out their is comforting. Thanks also to the entire team for the camp VI clean up. Sound too gross to comprehend. You guys do an incredible job for the big stone. Thanks again.
Doug Pratt-Johnson
|
|
JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2010 - 02:44pm PT
|
More Photos:
The crack is now 6-7 feet deep!
|
|
Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
|
|
Thanks. Cool photos. Look out of the park archeologists - they'll get after you for picking up historic trash. :)
|
|
JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2010 - 03:11pm PT
|
More rescue shots:
|
|
pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
|
|
I watched this rescue from the meadow last week.
Good work by everyone involved.
I wondered, how long was the rope that lowered the rescue party from the top?
When the injured party left the wall in the litter via chopper line, THAT was a king swing!
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
Great pics Jesse
and great job!
what Silver said on the respirator. Can't believe you were just using the paper masks. I'd have puked.
Love the pics of the team. Good to see faces attached to names.
My Big Wall Naivete is showing: never having been up the Nose I had no idea what a cesspool it's become in places like that.
|
|
climboard
Trad climber
Clifton, VA
|
|
Thanks for the pics and updates. We witnessed the rock fall from the DNB and stopped by the Meadow the next day to witness the rescue. I was very impressed with the awesome display of skill and grace under pressure.
Now I find out you stuck around to clean up after careless climbers, you guys are my heroes!
|
|
Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
|
|
Great photos Jessie. Good (but awful) work.
|
|
the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
Great job!! Great photos!
I wonder if a small metal sign posted at camp VI in multiple languages would help any?
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
|
|
As long as the sign said" Litter here & we will KILL you. Have a nice Day."
Props, Jesse.
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
|
|
I know a "Historic Coiler"....He's in Chinese Camp, though.
|
|
Raafie
Big Wall climber
Portland, OR
|
|
Did you find my partner's swiss army knife from back in '89? The garbage in the crack was deep enough back then that we couldn't reach in and retrieve it.
|
|
YetAnotherDave
Trad climber
Vancouver, BC
|
|
Jesse & co, next time I'm in the Valley I'll have some single-malt with your names on it.
thanks!
Dave
|
|
Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
Anyone want to continue talking about capturing your water waste and hauling it out?
|
|
elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
|
|
Looks to me like we have a new photographer in our midst... Jesse you need to get your ass over to the ECB and take over for me... you'll love it!!!
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
They don't lower the litter out from the anchor? that seems pretty rowdy!
Surprised Lober rides the litter, you'd think some young hot shot would do that.
|
|
JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2010 - 06:07pm PT
|
Thanks for the responses guys.
Riley,
They are N-95s. They seemed to do the trick, stopped the smell, and I'm not sick after a week.
Tom, You're getting here on the 10th? I have some fun work for you to do once you're here. I need the El Cap bridge liason back...soon!
I am definitely thinking of a sign in multiple languages to post at Camp 6. Maybe a plexi-glass one that we could update every few months.
The concrete or metal grate option won't fly (to much of an instalation in wilderness). Plus I think it would be cool if we could get it 100% clean, and actually have climbers all give the place the respect it deserves.
|
|
elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
|
|
Yo jesse... maybe the 12th as I have some things in the mail that I am waiting for...
|
|
pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
|
|
riley, you're an idiot.
|
|
Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
|
|
I vote for a tami toon at 4!
Cheers,
DD
|
|
telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
|
|
"Anyone want to continue talking about capturing your water waste and hauling it out?"
Mark- A friend of mine and I are headed to the Valley next week. After all the reading I have done here I am planning on hauling my piss off the wall.
FWIW
I made a poop tube out of PVC, and am bummed by how heavy it is. Has anyone made a poop tube out of green septic pipe? It is lighter material, but I question its' durability.
Marc
|
|
Damn this looks high
Boulder climber
Temecula, Ca
|
|
UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVEABLE! Makes my job seem mundane--thank god!!
The next time my daughter complains about cleaning the toilet, I'll send her to this thread.
Hats off to the crew.
|
|
Roxy
Trad climber
CA Central Coast
|
|
a raise of my coffee mug to the rangers for the clean up.
thanks for all that you do!
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
I as well want to extend my thanks to you and your crew Jesse. Anyone who saves a life and picks some trash up after the fact Kick's Ass in my opinion.
|
|
Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
|
|
You guys should have used one of these vapor masks..
I use this when glassing surfboards and never smell a thing. It's a great $40 investment. After spending the night at Camp 6 in the early 1990's, I could smell the smell and still taste it for a week. I had a sore throat, clogged sinuses and felt really sick the morning following our bivy.
BTW, we left nothing of our 'stuff' there. I feel bad for not taking some additional trash with us.
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
^^^thats an awesome idea, though not sure it is in the best intrest of climbers to be shown as a bunch of disgusting pigs to the general public on National Television...true as it may be.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
Have our brains clicked in yet? Eh? The NPS knows what is going on with the Nose and climbers generally. Stop thinking the NPS is stupid or ignorant. Why does the NPS allow it to continue and continue to deal with immature people thinking they can do anything they like while running around pounding their chests?
Because the Service knows its task is to preserve the land and to permit citizens supporting the park - to gain value from those parks. Complicated tasks are a part of life. Those who can't deal with complications generally wind up climbing.
Why do you think the NPS hands out so much support during Facelift? The answer to all of this is going to involve everyone facing the problems and cooperating. The NPS is hoping for a real answer.
Duh!
And when we get pissed off at a ranger just remember you have not got your sh#t together any better than has the ranger.
|
|
TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
|
|
Hats off Jesse!
No offense but:
The concrete or metal grate option won't fly (to much of an instalation in wilderness).
^^^ Really? ^^^
Isn't that a can of regulatory worms!
Not even a previously proposed foam and epoxy filler?
Plus I think it would be cool if we could get it 100% clean, and actually have climbers all give the place the respect it deserves.
True, however unfortunate this an issue that will arise again and again.
I understand sitting in the 'Hole' belay on the Zig Zags is pretty gruesome these days as well.
As Mr. Hudon suggests carrying out your parties waste water should be part of the ethic as well
Years ago people heaved all manner of jetsam off the Captain (and other Yosemite walls). That has long since ended and I assume there is a regulation regarding jettisoning any waste be it trash or sewage ?
In the back country you used to be responsible for your food storage but that was pretty much by 'whatever means' (wire, etc). Nowadays you must by regulation use a certified bear cannister.
Are we headed for a 'no trace, haul it up/haul it out' regulations on Yosemite walls?
~~~~~~~~~~
on the humorous side:
"...a sign in multiple languages to post at Camp 6..."
Nah just epoxy a dummy video cam to the wall with a little 'active' L.E.D light.
~~~~~~~~~~
Again Kudos Jesse !
Next time I hear "How can I live in the park permanently?"
You know what thread I am sending them to.
|
|
H
Mountain climber
there and back again
|
|
Jesse,
I have not been to camp 6 but I know the work you and your team do is vital. All of it, from coffee with a ranger to saving lives to liaison between the climbers and NPS.
Its not an easy position to be in and it takes dedication. Keep up the good work bro; don't let the wankers get you down! Your doing the right thing.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
I used to think climbers were a special lot. Over time, some of them prove to be disgusting slobs. How could anyone with any sense use these ledges as dumping grounds?! They should all be strung up, flogged and brined.
|
|
ericb
climber
CA
|
|
Went past Camp VI the other day at 4:00 in the morning after a long day in the mountains, (made the HD/Nose link-up with 10min to spare!) and I was shocked to see how far down Jesse and Sam were able to get it with some improvised tools. From years past when I tried to haul stuff out of there I know that it's gruesome work, those bottles have decades old urine in them and can spill at any moment. (Actually, one did in our brand new haulbag).
It still smells pretty gnarly, so I can't wait to get back up and get the rest cleaned out. When it's finally done I think I'll spend a victory week camping there.
Eric
Yosemite Climbing Ranger
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Maybe there's some stuff that could be poured into the crack, that would cause the organic things to break down? The sort of stuff that organic gardeners and composters use? It probably depends on a fairly damp environment, but that seems likely.
|
|
Gene
Social climber
|
|
Clint on the thread linked above says:
I like the cap/seal idea to keep the crack from refilling with trash/feces. Maybe some 2' sections of 6" or so diameter logs could be used to make the cap/seal instead of cement or foam. Trim to fit with a saw and hammer into place! They will rot and get smaller over years, but then hammer deeper to retighten; add a new layer on top eventually.
why not?
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
tony bird,
you are an as#@&%e.
and a effin looser.
jesse does something good and you sh#t on the parade?
you are one effed up individual and you dont deserve sh#t. yeah, looser.
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
i don't think jesse has bothered to answer the issue i raised, hawkeye. he did provide an informational link on the other thread, but it led to nowhere.
i guess i've challenged jesse to be a little more than just mr. nice guy. real public relations steps up to the plate when the going gets rough and makes an effort to mediate, in both directions. i suspect jesse's job description probably precludes that. i suspect he's got a boss telling him to back off. i do understand that posting on the internet can get a little ticklish, but on the other hand it's one of the most effective means of communication going.
hawkeye evidently has gotten it in for me bigtime. gotta tell ya, bud, i'm an old guy with a thick skin. i don't go looking for fights without a reason. tasering is one big reason. it's an instrument of torture and assault, and it can become a dangerous tool in the hands of the wrong kind of LEO. "don't tase me bro" came from the use of a taser to discourage free speech in a public forum. you don't have to like me, hawkeye, but if you're in the least concerned about the direction our country is taking, give this all a second thought.
and since this thread is about the mess at camp 6, why not dig the damn crack out with a long-handled pick, spade and pike and dump it over the side? rake it up, pick it up at the bottom. close the area below for the operation. do it before expected storms, which will wash it clean. don't worry about biohazard. the BLM doesn't issue biohazard warnings when we camp among its cowpies.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
rox and tony make good company. brains like cowpies.
throwing sh#t off of el cap from C6 would simply end up in more cracks. tony you are an idiot. if you havent been there then STFU you bone headed looser.
and rokjox, there aint no wolves involved so see if your unemployment check is in the mail for the month....
nobody knows the facts about someone being tased but guess what, break the law and the man is there.....
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
Ugh! That's just nasty. Humans can be such pigs. I'm with Tami on this one.
I'm just posting a personal thank you to Jessee and the other housekeepers. You guys are saints.
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
jesse's supposedly a liaison to the climbing community, coz. tell me why he shouldn't get involved. he saw fit to provide a link to information which didn't exist at one point. why shouldn't he follow up on it?
are people to look forward to general taserings for every little misdemeanor in the park? are there serious dangers to the public from BASE jumping? did ammon mcneely's behavior warrant this response? these are normal questions the public is due in an event like this. the NPS's silence implies that perhaps their position isn't as defensible as it ought to be. will the courts get it all done properly? in most cases, it's all decided long before it gets to court. squawk now or forever hold your peace.
i don't climb the big walls and i don't know the logistics of cleaning up that crack. but it does seem like it shouldn't be that hard, given some of the resources available. put it in a big bag if it's not practical to go over the side with it. hang it there until the next available helicopter, whatever. i still say climbers ought to clean up after themselves. this isn't the rangers' job. what better project for the facelift?
but here's one for all you folks. public servants are paid for out of our tax dollar. it begins and ends with you and me. they are accountable to you and me. we don't have to genuflect in order to talk to them. and a good one will speak plainly and equably.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
rox,
sorry, but you are not my type. furthermore, you are a societal leach and i don't want to be leached on ....understand?
you and tonyB set the gold std for f*#ked up individuals. go start a thread on UFO's or somehting useful....
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
A sign might be good. Foam or anything else to cover the crack is kind of a silly idea.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
BTW TB.
public servants answer to their boss first and foremost. with an ongoing litigation jesse cannot say anything cuz idiots like yourself will the take it as gospel. you idiot.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
lambone, a sign? really? like DONT SH#T HERE?!?
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Maybe there's some sort of indigenous bug, that likes to eat human faeces and such? Some kind of dung beetle? The kind that can survive rough weather and conditions. If they did a really good job, perhaps they'd die out, but occasionally have to be reintroduced. Or maybe a relic population would survive, to explode whenever manna descended upon them from the heavens, in their stygian recesses.
But some composting enzyme would be OK, too.
|
|
Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
|
|
Threads are sort of like Camp VI - there are always a few who will dump there, because it's free and satisfies their urge at the moment.
The result is sometimes something that stinks, is ugly, etc.
But if you're lucky you don't have to stay long - just get what you want from the thread/climb and don't pay attention to the ugly bits! :-)
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Thanks for the hard work, Rescue and Clean-up Jesse
Tony wrote
"jesse's supposedly a liaison to the climbing community, coz. tell me why he shouldn't get involved. he saw fit to provide a link to information which didn't exist at one point. why shouldn't he follow up on it?"
No Ranger is going to make specific comments about a specific pending case BTW. get real, even if he wanted to it would threaten his job. That's going to have to be worked out in the courts whether we like it or not. Leave Jesse out of it since he has no say, no control, and no ability to reveal anything
Peace
karl
|
|
Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
|
|
fyi, i was leaving this thread alone, but hawkeye came along with his tantrum.
you're right about answering to the boss first, though, hawkeye. the big problem is that the bosses are no longer accountable to the public.
i will agree with jesse on one thing: let's clean it out and keep it natural. and i'd love to see the sign tami would come up with.
karl, i can't agree with you. jesse is not just a ranger on the range, he has a specific role with the climbing community. i'm suggesting that that role should include normal public relations, and that would include being a spokesperson when something controversial comes up. as i said before, the NPS's silence about this does not make them look good. lots of comments get made on high profile cases while they are pending. lawyers on both sides know the value of posturing at that time.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
no tantrum here tony, go start a thread on UFO's or other highly useful stuff then you and the klimmers and RJs of the world can unite...
BTW, have you ever even been to C6 tony? you are one ignorant individual....
|
|
MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
|
|
Thanks for the follow-up pictures, Jesse! That rope looks naaaasty!
Above and beyond the call of duty, for sure! See you at Facelift!
Erik Wolfe
|
|
canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
|
|
I vote you stuff Tony down the hole. It's natural and it biodegrades. Win-win for ST and El Cap.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
as someone who started climbing bigwalls in the late 70's, i always hated the thought that you worked so hard to get to a place that smelled like sh#t. because of that most of my big walling was done in locations that were less popular. they are still out there. if you are going to climb el cap then do so with respect for others.....
|
|
xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
|
|
Thank you gents, that is one nasty job you take on. Annualy too, I might add. And thanks to YOSAR, without you folks, we could become an endangered species.
Nice pics, hope I never have to meet you in person, no offense intended(exception- Hey Libby,stay safe girl), it's just your job is counter productive to doing my passion properly.
I kind of like the plug the crack with natural debris, but some fools would be sure to pull it up, do their selfish deed, and then burn the top layer in the usual senseless campfire ritual that so many seem to need when out of doors. Cement and steel, not so cool a solution in the wilds, and foam, although practical, nada.
Thanks for the work, nasty as it is, I know I am planning on habit changes, hauling my pee is not that big of an ordeal. Thanks Mark, a new ethic or practice may be on the horizon, for the better, too. Raising the bar on our behavior is just good practice.
Tami's artwork after a few days out would certainly be amusing, but I carried a buttload of stuff down the talus this May, replentished almost daily, and this convinces me that there are a lot of climbers who just do not care what they do. I made at least a dozen trips up and down the talus over the course of a month, and never had a problem filling my day pack with food containers, worn out/broken gear, bags with the infamous coilers, etc., etc. Some of it was scattered by the bear who frequented the base, but most of it can not be blamed on him, he doesn't leave apple cores like we do, or open his tuna cans with an opener. I am not sure if a cartoon or sign will change the mind of an offender, or just be like grafiti on the camp 4 stalls walls, just something to read while doing the deed.
A solution for now seems to fall on the shoulders of Jesse and Sam, backed by the work of the Yosar folks. Only to be poo pood on by next years flock of gumbies, litterers, and turd bandits. Again, Thank You for your efforts, I have never personally needed you, but that doesn't mean I do not appreciate what you do.
Burly Bob
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
the more sh#t i read that tony writes the more i realize he is a troll. nobody is that freaking ignorant are they?
|
|
lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
|
|
Jesus you go away for a couple of months, come back and still see America either going down the drain or will be going up in smoke but hey.
Jesse
Never did get to honor my commitment the first time when I started this in thanking you when I said beers or drinks were on me at the Ahwahnee Hotel. Looks like I owe a couple of nights. Good job on camp sick. Noticed HazMat, suits Level D? But who cares.
Ok for the plug. You had mentioned not the idea of concrete because not ethical or environmental friendly.
Concrete starts off with being a rock, Manufactures break it down, heat it, add gypsum….. Then shape it back into a rock: bridges, sidewalk, road, buildings.
If you look at buildings or hotels in San Francisco, yes, they are grey and ugly and bland, but concrete and cement have come a long way in trendy and environmental as well as sustainable material to consider in construction. Google “Shanghai” , Beijing or Singapore and look at the structures there. Colour and no grey. I think this is where you are hung up on because it will look like a grey concrete sidewalk or slab.
Cement is just a binder: glue. Cement comes in various forms or formulations, Portland cement is just one, Polymer cements is another and so on and so on.
As for colours; Portland cement is grey and then there is white, a tad more expensive since it is a true portland cement just missing the iron and magnesium oxides.
Granite is an igneous rock that is what we have in Yosemite. It is natural. On the East side are volcanic glass one being pumice that is natural. Columbia just outside Sonora has sedimentary rocks: limestone a carbonate that is a binder and when crushed or made into a powder or flour, 15%-20% can be added to the Portland to add compressive strength but in the case of the plug not necessary.
So the only things to make this slurry would be granite from good old Yosemite various sizes and very little fines, glue [cement with correct natural oxide colouoring added] and water from the Merced River that flows through the valley. Plasticizers are made from trees; the new generations are sugar based. How natural can you get?
Foam will not work; rats eat it up and love it. Spray toxic chemicals for them to stay away so that is not natural plus climbers will most likely eat it as well.
Still say 76mm -100mm [4-6 in] reason for mm you are in a federal jurisdiction and have to conform to SI units will do the trick.
Stuff geotech matrix between the two walls, pour slurry into and top of matrix, level it off so rain or pee will run off and not collect on the slug, brush top off with water and shape with rubber knobbed mat that will resemble granite finish. Will set up and cure in ten minutes. Collect gear and then climb off or rap down.
Total weight of equipment and material in: 35 kilos Two haul sacs. Total weight of equipment out: two haul sacs, empty water containers, say the most 3 kilos.
|
|
jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
|
|
In late May, a group of climbers started a major clean-up effort on the Nose of El Capitan, clearing 30 large garbage bags of trash off the summit and route, excavating up to 10 feet deep in waste filled cracks. The clean-up team consisted of students and faculty of Prescott College in Arizona, along with several Yosemite climbers.
"It's amazing that the climbers who make it all the way to Camp VI are the ones leaving glass containers and such things as a complete set of measuring spoons," said crew member Constantine Serveris.
At press time the crew had removed 17 bags of trash from Camp VI, 10 bags from the summit, and three more below from Dolt Tower. Three crew members climbed and cleaned the East Ledges and fixed rope from the summit to Camp VI.
Bad weather forced the lower party to retreat , while mixed snow and rain hampered the efforts of the summit crew. The crew completed the clean-up despite one of the wettest seasons in memory. "In some ways , the bad weather helps because there are fewer climbers on the route," said crew member Matt Menard.
The Prescott College students designed and constructed special tools for extricating trash from deep cracks, and utilized a garden hoe for the huge accumulations of garbage in the cracks of Camp VI.
The group hopes to aid the Park Service and the climbing access groups in an effort to educate climbers about cleaner and sager big-wall climbing in Yosemite. With a grant from the American Alpine Club, the plan to develop a brochure promoting a "pack it up and pack it out" ethic.
"I think it's great that climbers are initiating this kind of project," said Mark Fincher, Yosemite's climbing management program director.
 Eve Tallman
Sound familiar? Surprisingly (to me) the above is from issue 154 of Climbing magazine...that would be September of 1995. Randomly found it today. Too bad "we" didn't learn anything from this back then...
More props to Jesse and crew. Let's hope we, as a community, can clean up our act...it's about time.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Nothing much new under the sun, sadly. Well, at least we're trying.
|
|
p-owed
Trad climber
Ramona ca
|
|
Just dump some gas in their and toss in a road flare. problem solved!!
|
|
MisterE
Social climber
Cinderella Story, Outa Nowhere
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2011 - 10:55pm PT
|
This was such an amazing effort - thanks you guys.
|
|
MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
|
|
|
Apr 20, 2011 - 06:56pm PT
|
MTucker
You're in the wrong fuking thread dude.
Get with it man.
You ain't got a fuking clue either by posting in this thread and ragging on Jesse who hasn't got anything to do with your problem.
Now git your ass over there and do your bitching there ...
Classic Werner!
Thanks!
|
|
MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
|
|
|
Apr 21, 2011 - 12:51am PT
|
MZiebell, welcome back after 2 years.
|
|
j-tree
Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2014 - 02:11pm PT
|
Bump
|
|
| Messages 1 - 118 of total 118 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!