Nose Rescue and Camp VI Clean-up

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JesseM

Social climber
Yosemite
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 1, 2010 - 08:53pm PT
It’s been a real busy summer for me, and I apologize for not having more of a presence on this crucial forum of ideas, dialogue, and newsworthy moments.

This thread falls under the newsworthy category.

On Tuesday, August 24th, Yosemite Park dispatch received a report of climbers around Camp IV on the Nose calling for help. The reporting party also said that there was rockfall observed previous to the incident. It was already late in the day, but we decided to fly 8 rescuers to the top of El Cap to rig and prepare for rescuing the injured climber in the morning.

Although there are several uncertainties about what really happened (lost in translation…), this is basically what had happened. It was a party of 4 Korean climbers, and the leader of the team had pulled a huge block off in the Grey Bands. He was climbing a variation marked as “5.10a not recommended” in Supertopo Big Walls on the pitch before Camp IV. The block landed on his legs and rope, basically crushed his Femur (he had multiple fractures), and did this to his rope:

This is the climber's rope!
This is the climber's rope!
Credit: JesseM
After completing our rigging on Wednesday morning we lowered Ranger-medics Jack H. and Lober down to the injured climber with a litter, they packaged him up, and gave him some pain meds. A little side note: when Jack and Keith arrived on scene the climber was not wearing his harness, and was clipped in only to his wall style double gear-sling. Because of the severity of his injury (we did not know the extent of his injury before Jack and Keith got down to him) we elected to short haul him off the wall using the park helicopter. Check out the photo below of Lober’s “E-ticket” ride.
Using the bean-bag method Helicopter 551 and co. pull off another hair...
Using the bean-bag method Helicopter 551 and co. pull off another hair-raising-life-saving short-haul rescue!
Credit: JesseM


The rest of the climbing team was not capable of finishing the route or descending on their own, and we spent the rest of the day lowering them off the wall. More stories about that later...

I had been planning to do a combined SAR training and Camp 6 clean up (Nose Wiping as we like to call it) this week. However, given that we had 12 SAR siters from Tuolumne and the Valley, all of the gear we needed, and a whole bunch of psyche to pull it off, we bivied on top of the Capitan one more night. The next morning we lowered Sam Piper and myself down to Camp 6 with 2 empty Grade VI haul bags, a sh-t hook, hazmat suits, trash bags, face masks, and thick gloves. We pulled out about 100 pounds of crap, ropes, trash, and mysterious other substances never before seen (or smelled) by mankind.

Here are some more photos of that trip.
Ready to go to work.
Ready to go to work.
Credit: JesseM

More later...up-loader not working on gov. computer.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 1, 2010 - 08:58pm PT
Thank you, Jesse and team! Very good work - although the news about Camp VI is a bit disappointing. Is there more/less/unchanged from what was there the last time you did a nosewipe? Also, is there any need to return during the FaceLift, either to the Nose or any other route (Salathe?), to clean up? I'd be happy to help.

this crucial forum of ideas, dialogue, and newsworthy moments.
You may be thinking of someone else. :-)
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Sep 1, 2010 - 09:01pm PT
Thanks for the report Jesse. Wow.
Captain...or Skully

Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
Sep 1, 2010 - 09:03pm PT
Camp VI makes me sad.
It shouldn't need repeated wipes, but I'm glad you got it done(this time, eh?).
Loved the pics.
JesseM

Social climber
Yosemite
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2010 - 09:06pm PT
MH/Anders,

There is less and less every year we get up there. We are now down 6 feet at least, and into historic trash from the '80s.

I'll try to post some more photos later.
jfs

Trad climber
Upper Leftish
Sep 1, 2010 - 09:14pm PT
Yaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!!!!!

Way to go Jesse and others! You guys are RAD!!!

C VI was NASTY!!!

I hope climbers respect it more from now on.
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Sep 1, 2010 - 09:18pm PT
Crazy. Thanks for the cleanup guys!
Fish Finder

Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
Sep 1, 2010 - 09:23pm PT
Great work Jesse.

Say, can we use the helicopter at facelift?
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Sep 1, 2010 - 10:40pm PT
to ranger jesse:

it'd be hard to believe that the NPS hasn't noticed the interest on supertopo over the ammon mcneely tasering incident. i personally believe the public is owed a statement on its behavior. tasering has gotten to be one of the ugliest things that police do.

i'm assuming yosemite rangers have been following the discussion here. rangers are known to do that with just about every blog page involving the activities they deal with, but they rarely involve themselves in discussions they cannot control.

tasering is a disturbing and violent response to anything except violent crime itself. i'm not a particular fan of BASE, but there's much climber-BASE crossover, and there seem to be many examples where jumpers' interests and enthusiasms can be accommodated--the new river gorge jump day an example.

jesse, i'm afraid i see you playing good cop to some bad cops. it would be refreshing to see some engagement of the BASE community by the NPS, discussion of behavior, park concerns, and some working towards resolution of an issue which probably won't be going away. without some forthright handling of this matter, we'll be looking forward to the escalation of a keystone cops comedy--except that more tasering could well make it a tragedy.

TB
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Sep 1, 2010 - 10:41pm PT
Good work. Thanks!

And post more photos please.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Sep 1, 2010 - 10:43pm PT
What a report.

Thanks Jesse. Would love to see a lot more from you around here.

It's so good, and so crucial to keep the lines open to "The Man", ya know what I mean?

Thanks again!!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 1, 2010 - 10:49pm PT
Jesse, nice work! On the rescues and the cleanup.

It's got to be disgusting work....good on ya!
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Sep 1, 2010 - 11:13pm PT
Well done Jesse on the rescue and the clean up
You've gone down through 6feet of s(*T at C6?
And still more?
That's almost unbelievable.

+1 on what Tony Bird just said.
james Colborn

Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
Sep 1, 2010 - 11:14pm PT
Camp VI made me hate climbers.
Piss, sh#t, and trash. I got dry heaves when I got on the ledge, I would have puked for real had I not run out of water earlier in the day. There were at least 4 gatorade bottles shoved in the crack all filled with piss. That was just what was on top and visible. I couldn't sleep that night because my nose was filled with the odor of the ledge and I just could not shake it. We took as much garbage that would fit into our bag. F*#kers!
Who is doing this?

Thanks Jesse for taking the time and making the effort to clean that mess up. I owe you a beer or six.

James
jstan

climber
Sep 1, 2010 - 11:17pm PT
I think we all owe a debt of gratitude to the job Jesse and the National Park Service is doing. It would be very easy for NPS people, personally, to wish they saw fewer of us, and we would detect it immediately. Indeed many of us would prefer there were not quite so many.

It is very hard to be a gracious host when guests, occasionally unappreciative, keep coming without a break.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Sep 1, 2010 - 11:26pm PT
Good work Jesse -- both on the rescue and the clean-up.

And sympathy to the guy you pulled out. Can't have been much fun spending half a day, then a night, then part of a morning on a wall with a badly crushed femur. He may have been begging his partners to cut off his harness, but man, I'd have been begging them to untie me and throw me off.
BeeHay

Trad climber
San Diego CA
Sep 1, 2010 - 11:48pm PT
This is Public Service at it's best. I lodged at VI in the '80s, I can assure that none of that "history" is mine!
I wish the base thing could stay outta here, there are 2 threads on the topic already...

Brad
MisterE

Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
Sep 1, 2010 - 11:58pm PT
Thanks for joining the fray again here, Jesse. Looks like quite a pull off the nose, but you look fresh in the hazmat suit and cheater stick...I mean sh-thook.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:01am PT
We are now down 6 feet at least, and into historic trash from the '80s.

Historic Trash. Ha ha ha.
Better dredge it out before it gets designated an historic site.







Thanks for a job well done.
+2 for what Tony said.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:10am PT
Having never made it that far, I still want to share my appreciation to you and the others...excellent work all around!
Many climbers (like fishermen-er, anglers) are just f*king slobs.

oh ya more pictures!
Cheers,
DD
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:12am PT
good to see what you guys are up to..been relying on the coffee as well
Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:16am PT
"historic trash from the '80s."

HohMan!! I hope you don't find the evidence from the time I had my way with the Iron Monkey.. Poor little guy!
Captain...or Skully

Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:19am PT
Anglers & Danglers, DD?
Hmmm.

rrider

climber
Mckinleyville, Ca
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:20am PT
Are any of these blocks missing now?
photo by Tom Evans
photo by Tom Evans
Credit: rrider
MTucker

Ice climber
Arizona
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:30am PT
So sad that this thread got tainted so fast.

That sucks.
MTucker

Ice climber
Arizona
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:34am PT
No one commenting here knows what went on.

Tony "i'm assuming" just makes you an ass.

No government offical that wants to keep their job would comment here.

Surprised Jesse even posted once on the other thread. Not a good call.

These threads of ranger bashing and speculation are a waste of their time for sure.

Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:36am PT
Someday, somehow, someone needs to rap that route with a super, high-pressure washer and REALLY blast it clean. 50+ years and thousands of ascents means plenty of bowel movemets, piss, vomit, blood, semen (it does get lonely up there...), food, beer, tampons, and everything else we climbers seem to "forget" along the way.
MTucker

Ice climber
Arizona
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:37am PT
The Government has spoken. No BASE in Yosemite.



"jesse, i'm afraid i see you playing good cop to some bad cops. it would be refreshing to see some engagement of the BASE community by the NPS, discussion of behavior, park concerns, and some working towards resolution of an issue which probably won't be going away. without some forthright handling of this matter, we'll be looking forward to the escalation of a keystone cops comedy--except that more tasering could well make it a tragedy."

TB
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:37am PT
RAD!!!!
WBraun

climber
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:40am PT
MTucker

You're in the wrong fuking thread dude.

Get with it man.

You ain't got a fuking clue either by posting in this thread and ragging on Jesse who hasn't got anything to do with your problem.

Now git your ass over there and do your bitching there .....
F10

Trad climber
e350 / Bishop
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:40am PT
Thank you
MTucker

Ice climber
Arizona
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:41am PT
Eye witness studies have shown that they are rarely reliable.

Even when witnesses see the exact same thing, their stories are different on the stand.

In the heat of the moment with split second reactions...............
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:42am PT
yeah.......

STFU Mother Tucker! Wehn I get on Camp 6 i want it to be cleen.
Fluoride

Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:44am PT
Good job Jesse! Glad you did what you did. And sad that other did what they did and that you had to clean it all up.
Dirka

Trad climber
SF
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:45am PT
Props for the clean up and rescue!
MTucker

Ice climber
Arizona
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:45am PT
Stick it Werner

Tell the same to Tony.

I definitely didn't attack Jesse.

Stick it Weld.

I was talking about Tony's thread hijacking fool.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:49am PT
you won't find any of my sh#t at camp V1...i always wear diapers when i climb or ski...i'm usually having too much fun to stop and grit one out in the bog...as for cleaning the captain , i think a dc-10 fire-fighter with a load of water would be a much more efficient was of flushing the nose...rj
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:51am PT
Tony who? Let da nose get cleaned and quit harshing the mellow bra.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:59am PT
thanks Jesse and Sam for doing a really nasty job...

I recall at the Face Lift history both that anything over 50 years old is "historic" and since the FA of the Nose was over 50 years ago, do you have to leave the last little bit of stuff at Camp VI? (I think that's a rhetorical question)...

Looking forward to seeing you guys at the FaceLift


Studly

Trad climber
WA
Sep 2, 2010 - 01:05am PT
Another amazing Yosar rescue pulled off flawlessly, kudos!
Also, Jesse and Sam should get a medal for the Camp 6 project..above and beyond the call. Thank you.
WBraun

climber
Sep 2, 2010 - 01:07am PT
anything over 50 years old is "historic"


So they dig up a petrified turd from the FA party and display it in Kens museum?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 2, 2010 - 01:10am PT
just sayin', Werner...
WBraun

climber
Sep 2, 2010 - 01:25am PT
Just joking Ed.

And

"Another amazing Yosar rescue pulled off flawlessly, .... "


Not really. There were some technical problems ....

Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Sep 2, 2010 - 02:02am PT
i didn't attack jesse, i challenged him. he's a public servant. i have every right to raise an issue like this.

we've had two long discussion threads groping in the dark about what really happened, and there has been no NPS statement either about the tasering or what's so bad about BASE jumping in yosemite.

tasering is an affront to the sacred ground of yosemite. it can be a humane device in extreme circumstances and should be reserved for that. i am angered to see law enforcement using it as a tool of intimidation. a good officer knows how to engage people. a good administrator might figure out a better way of dealing with the local interest in BASE.

and if camp 6 has become such a damn pigsty, why isn't it a major project for facelift? i frankly don't think it should be the rangers' job to be doing that for climbers. cleaning up after ourselves used to be part of our ethic.


whoops--i owe jesse a word of apology here--i didn't realize he had posted on one of the mcneely threads--he did so yesterday and i missed it and wouldn't have raised the issue here if i had known that. his response there was entirely appropriate to the situation and it's appreciated.

jesse said it isn't appropriate for him to be involved in this case at this time, and that's understood. however it appears that the link to official documents isn't working well, and i would ask that the NPS consider making a statement about what happened. as i stated previously in that same thread, official press releases are common in unusual cases and this would appear to warrant it.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Sep 2, 2010 - 02:30am PT
Good work, Jesse!
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Sep 2, 2010 - 02:35am PT
A big Thank you for you hard work, season after season!

Speechless as to the effort involved by you and your crew.

Mucci

Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Sep 2, 2010 - 02:42am PT
noyce!
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Sep 2, 2010 - 11:20am PT
Thanks, Jesse.

on this crucial forum of ideas, dialogue, and newsworthy moments.

Yeah, that was pretty funny.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 2, 2010 - 11:26am PT
Yow!

Mysterious vapors?
Who ya gonna call?
atchafalaya

climber
Babylon
Sep 2, 2010 - 11:34am PT
Thanks for the clean-up and rescue. Camp VI is so awesome, but so f*#ked up. Its really appreciated.
murcy

climber
sanfrancisco
Sep 2, 2010 - 11:56am PT
Stepping up big time.
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:37pm PT
Great work on the rescue and the Nose wipe. Props to Keith and Jack for the job they do saving climbers asses while risking their own lives. YOSAR RULES!!!

As for the rude BASE people posting on this thread... you have a couple of threads already on your concerns with the Ammon situation and jumping in general... make some friends instead of enemies and don't muck up threads you are not involved in.
Thorgon

Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:38pm PT
YosBusters!!!



Thanks,
Thor


Awesome helo shot!!!
crunch

Social climber
CO
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:47pm PT
"We are now down 6 feet at least, and into historic trash from the '80s"

That's exciting; hey, if you happen to come across my old Flock of Seagulls cassette ...
Silver

Big Wall climber
Nor Nev
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:50pm PT
Jesse and Crew,

Thanks for the clean up. I remember in 93 the crack was filled to the level of the ledge and smelled like death was buried in there.



Keep up the good work.
pc

climber
Sep 2, 2010 - 12:57pm PT
That is some evil sh#t to dig out. Thanks for the great effort.
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Sep 2, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
That is an awesome helicopter shot. can't wait to see more photos
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Sep 2, 2010 - 01:16pm PT
Many thanks.

In other places, park rangers do not participate in rescues. Glad to see that is supported and not taken for granted.

Cleaning up after ourselves and others is essential to keeping public lands open for climbing. My fantasies about climbing the Nose never reflected the realities that you describe. There aren't as many excuses we can use here about being in the death zone, etc.I'd like to see more public recognition of the selfless folks that haul out others trash.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Sep 2, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
Thanks for a great job, guys! I haven't needed you yet, and hope I never do, but it's comforting to know you're there.

Cheers,
Pete
eKat

Trad climber
http://www.ecokath.com/
Sep 2, 2010 - 01:21pm PT
Best chopper porn EVER!

BoogittyBoogittyBoogittyBoogitty!

:-)

eKat
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Sep 2, 2010 - 01:30pm PT
Sixty two posts and nobody commented on the "E Ticket" comment.

They're all E tix for ElCapland.........


Great rescue Jesse, Werner et al & amazing to hear nobody has died from the foulness of Camp VI. Back in '81 it had a rep for being ghastly.

RobTheis

Trad climber
Los Altos, CA
Sep 2, 2010 - 01:49pm PT
Thank you guys for doing the cleanup. I was there on 4th July week and it was truly sad. Used a portaledge above it to avoid the smell and it partially worked.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Sep 2, 2010 - 02:00pm PT
I just had a vision of you guys dropping that sh-t hook.

Man! If I were at the base and that thing skewered into the ground next to me at 200 mph I think I would consider golf as my pastime of choice.

Happy to see you have that dagger tied in!
Slakkey

Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
Sep 2, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
Thanks for all that you do. Great Job
10b4me

Ice climber
Happy Boulders
Sep 2, 2010 - 02:09pm PT
thanks Jesse.
I hope to make it to Facelift some year to help out
Ottawa Doug

Social climber
Ottawa, Canada
Sep 2, 2010 - 02:24pm PT
Hey Jesse,

Thanks a ton for the update. Amazing rescue that YOSAR pulled off flawlessly. Congratulations! As others have said, I haven't needed your rescue services to this point, (and hope I never do) but knowing your team is out their is comforting. Thanks also to the entire team for the camp VI clean up. Sound too gross to comprehend. You guys do an incredible job for the big stone. Thanks again.

Doug Pratt-Johnson
JesseM

Social climber
Yosemite
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2010 - 02:44pm PT
More Photos:
Heading down to Camp VI...what a rad bivy!
Heading down to Camp VI...what a rad bivy!
Credit: JesseM

The trash and poo crack...notice the coiler on top.
The trash and poo crack...notice the coiler on top.
Credit: JesseM

Taking a break. Notice the rope, soaked in urin and feces.
Taking a break. Notice the rope, soaked in urin and feces.
Credit: JesseM

Sam rapping in to access the trash from the side.
Sam rapping in to access the trash from the side.
Credit: JesseM

Werner, Clay, Deputy, Chantel, Libby waiting for the next operation to...
Werner, Clay, Deputy, Chantel, Libby waiting for the next operation to start.
Credit: JesseM

The crack is now 6-7 feet deep!
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Sep 2, 2010 - 02:47pm PT
Thanks. Cool photos. Look out of the park archeologists - they'll get after you for picking up historic trash. :)
Silver

Big Wall climber
Nor Nev
Sep 2, 2010 - 03:04pm PT
Hey Jesse can I send you a real respirator for that task. That is nothing more than a bra cup over your face. Believe me that thing did not do much for you. You need a 3M unit with the purple cartridge on it.
JesseM

Social climber
Yosemite
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2010 - 03:11pm PT
More rescue shots:
Lober, Rock Star.
Lober, Rock Star.
Credit: JesseM

Lober and patient still connected to the wall.
Lober and patient still connected to the wall.
Credit: JesseM

Cut the anchor and take the ride!
Cut the anchor and take the ride!
Credit: JesseM

Cut the anchor and take the swing.
Cut the anchor and take the swing.
Credit: JesseM
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Sep 2, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
I watched this rescue from the meadow last week.

Good work by everyone involved.

I wondered, how long was the rope that lowered the rescue party from the top?

When the injured party left the wall in the litter via chopper line, THAT was a king swing!
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Sep 2, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
Great pics Jesse
and great job!
what Silver said on the respirator. Can't believe you were just using the paper masks. I'd have puked.
Love the pics of the team. Good to see faces attached to names.

My Big Wall Naivete is showing: never having been up the Nose I had no idea what a cesspool it's become in places like that.
climboard

Trad climber
Clifton, VA
Sep 2, 2010 - 03:33pm PT
Thanks for the pics and updates. We witnessed the rock fall from the DNB and stopped by the Meadow the next day to witness the rescue. I was very impressed with the awesome display of skill and grace under pressure.

Now I find out you stuck around to clean up after careless climbers, you guys are my heroes!
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Sep 2, 2010 - 03:43pm PT
Great photos Jessie. Good (but awful) work.
Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Sep 2, 2010 - 03:52pm PT
Yogi looks thrilled, heh heh...
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Sep 2, 2010 - 04:01pm PT
Great job!! Great photos!

I wonder if a small metal sign posted at camp VI in multiple languages would help any?
Captain...or Skully

Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
Sep 2, 2010 - 04:10pm PT
As long as the sign said" Litter here & we will KILL you. Have a nice Day."
Props, Jesse.
Captain...or Skully

Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
Sep 2, 2010 - 04:18pm PT
I know a "Historic Coiler"....He's in Chinese Camp, though.
Raafie

Big Wall climber
Portland, OR
Sep 2, 2010 - 04:42pm PT
Did you find my partner's swiss army knife from back in '89? The garbage in the crack was deep enough back then that we couldn't reach in and retrieve it.
YetAnotherDave

Trad climber
Vancouver, BC
Sep 2, 2010 - 04:42pm PT
Jesse & co, next time I'm in the Valley I'll have some single-malt with your names on it.

thanks!

Dave
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Sep 2, 2010 - 05:11pm PT
Anyone want to continue talking about capturing your water waste and hauling it out?
elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Sep 2, 2010 - 05:44pm PT
Looks to me like we have a new photographer in our midst... Jesse you need to get your ass over to the ECB and take over for me... you'll love it!!!
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Sep 2, 2010 - 06:00pm PT
They don't lower the litter out from the anchor? that seems pretty rowdy!

Surprised Lober rides the litter, you'd think some young hot shot would do that.
JesseM

Social climber
Yosemite
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2010 - 06:07pm PT
Thanks for the responses guys.

Riley,

They are N-95s. They seemed to do the trick, stopped the smell, and I'm not sick after a week.

Tom, You're getting here on the 10th? I have some fun work for you to do once you're here. I need the El Cap bridge liason back...soon!

I am definitely thinking of a sign in multiple languages to post at Camp 6. Maybe a plexi-glass one that we could update every few months.

The concrete or metal grate option won't fly (to much of an instalation in wilderness). Plus I think it would be cool if we could get it 100% clean, and actually have climbers all give the place the respect it deserves.

elcap-pics

Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
Sep 2, 2010 - 07:35pm PT
Yo jesse... maybe the 12th as I have some things in the mail that I am waiting for...
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Sep 2, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
riley, you're an idiot.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Sep 2, 2010 - 08:57pm PT
Jesse - I'm not sure if this would be a good idea or not for Camp VI on The Snout.

I'd LOVE to draw you a sign to put behind plexiglas/lexan or to have done some other rather permanent manner to be placed at Camp VI.

I did a sign for the Alpine Club of Canada ( ACC ) cabin system for their outhouse barrel system. These signs are on the inside door of outhouses at the ACC cabins.These have been in use for about 15 years.

I have also done some work for the Friends of Indian Creek ( FoIC ) who used the work to assist in modifying climber/camper/hiker behaviour in IC. I think they were happy with the resulting work.

I never climbed The Nose in Yosemite but did numerous other long routes & understand The Poo problem.

My cartoons are relatively well known in the climbing community but if you would like samples of my work, please PM me through my SuperTaco avatar if this is of any interest to you.

Cheers & Best
Tami Knight

Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Sep 3, 2010 - 06:16am PT
I vote for a tami toon at 4!
Cheers,
DD
telemon01

Trad climber
Montana
Sep 3, 2010 - 09:14am PT

"Anyone want to continue talking about capturing your water waste and hauling it out?"

Mark- A friend of mine and I are headed to the Valley next week. After all the reading I have done here I am planning on hauling my piss off the wall.

FWIW

I made a poop tube out of PVC, and am bummed by how heavy it is. Has anyone made a poop tube out of green septic pipe? It is lighter material, but I question its' durability.

Marc
Damn this looks high

Boulder climber
Temecula, Ca
Sep 3, 2010 - 09:49am PT
UN-FREAKIN-BELIEVEABLE! Makes my job seem mundane--thank god!!

The next time my daughter complains about cleaning the toilet, I'll send her to this thread.

Hats off to the crew.
Roxy

Trad climber
CA Central Coast
Sep 3, 2010 - 10:03am PT
a raise of my coffee mug to the rangers for the clean up.

thanks for all that you do!
T2

climber
Cardiff by the sea
Sep 3, 2010 - 10:08am PT
I as well want to extend my thanks to you and your crew Jesse. Anyone who saves a life and picks some trash up after the fact Kick's Ass in my opinion.
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Sep 3, 2010 - 10:12am PT
You guys should have used one of these vapor masks..



I use this when glassing surfboards and never smell a thing. It's a great $40 investment. After spending the night at Camp 6 in the early 1990's, I could smell the smell and still taste it for a week. I had a sore throat, clogged sinuses and felt really sick the morning following our bivy.

BTW, we left nothing of our 'stuff' there. I feel bad for not taking some additional trash with us.
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Sep 3, 2010 - 12:45pm PT
^^^thats an awesome idea, though not sure it is in the best intrest of climbers to be shown as a bunch of disgusting pigs to the general public on National Television...true as it may be.
jstan

climber
Sep 3, 2010 - 02:01pm PT
Have our brains clicked in yet? Eh? The NPS knows what is going on with the Nose and climbers generally. Stop thinking the NPS is stupid or ignorant. Why does the NPS allow it to continue and continue to deal with immature people thinking they can do anything they like while running around pounding their chests?

Because the Service knows its task is to preserve the land and to permit citizens supporting the park - to gain value from those parks. Complicated tasks are a part of life. Those who can't deal with complications generally wind up climbing.

Why do you think the NPS hands out so much support during Facelift? The answer to all of this is going to involve everyone facing the problems and cooperating. The NPS is hoping for a real answer.


Duh!

And when we get pissed off at a ranger just remember you have not got your sh#t together any better than has the ranger.
TrundleBum

Trad climber
Las Vegas
Sep 3, 2010 - 03:34pm PT
Hats off Jesse!


No offense but:

The concrete or metal grate option won't fly (to much of an instalation in wilderness).


^^^ Really? ^^^
Isn't that a can of regulatory worms!
Not even a previously proposed foam and epoxy filler?


Plus I think it would be cool if we could get it 100% clean, and actually have climbers all give the place the respect it deserves.
True, however unfortunate this an issue that will arise again and again.
I understand sitting in the 'Hole' belay on the Zig Zags is pretty gruesome these days as well.

As Mr. Hudon suggests carrying out your parties waste water should be part of the ethic as well

Years ago people heaved all manner of jetsam off the Captain (and other Yosemite walls). That has long since ended and I assume there is a regulation regarding jettisoning any waste be it trash or sewage ?

In the back country you used to be responsible for your food storage but that was pretty much by 'whatever means' (wire, etc). Nowadays you must by regulation use a certified bear cannister.

Are we headed for a 'no trace, haul it up/haul it out' regulations on Yosemite walls?

~~~~~~~~~~

on the humorous side:
"...a sign in multiple languages to post at Camp 6..."

Nah just epoxy a dummy video cam to the wall with a little 'active' L.E.D light.

~~~~~~~~~~

Again Kudos Jesse !
Next time I hear "How can I live in the park permanently?"
You know what thread I am sending them to.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Sep 3, 2010 - 03:52pm PT
Link to the 2008 cap/seal thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/642199/Cleaning-up-Camp-Sick-and-a-possible-solution
Silver

Big Wall climber
Nor Nev
Sep 3, 2010 - 06:04pm PT
Clint here is my response to the foam idea. I posted it on the other thread.
Hey guys I am a foam insulation contractor and know that the foam will work, but here are some pro's and cons.

1. You have to use a closed cell foam 2 pound minimum.

2. You can paint the foam grey and blend it no problem.

3. You can chip away at any foam and rodents will chew that up and make homes in it.

4. The closed cell foam would have to be taken up in 4 propane size tanks and sprayed into the crack. Polyol Resin and Isocyanate. When combined make Cyanide vapors. We wear full face respirators and fresh air when we foam.

5 Closed cell foam would have to be done in temps lower than 75 degrees.
The chemical makeup of closed cell causes it to froth and foam in the canister over 80 degrees and it should not be shaken up at all or you will have to wait a day for it to settle down.

6 I'm sure the NPS would crap there pants if you put foam in the crack as it is against about everything they say the park is about. ( Natural)

7. I would just jam it with logs and and natural debris that would stay in place and not wash out of there. Per Clints Idea

8. Camp 6 is a water course in spring or after heavy rain.

9. Expensive to foam.

10 dont even think Great Stuff will work. It will hold water if emerged for long periods of time.

Just what I know about foam it would be the ticket for sure, but getting it there and installing would require some serious effort.

H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Sep 4, 2010 - 01:12am PT
Jesse,
I have not been to camp 6 but I know the work you and your team do is vital. All of it, from coffee with a ranger to saving lives to liaison between the climbers and NPS.

Its not an easy position to be in and it takes dedication. Keep up the good work bro; don't let the wankers get you down! Your doing the right thing.
Mimi

climber
Sep 4, 2010 - 04:03am PT
I used to think climbers were a special lot. Over time, some of them prove to be disgusting slobs. How could anyone with any sense use these ledges as dumping grounds?! They should all be strung up, flogged and brined.
ericb

climber
CA
Sep 7, 2010 - 08:30pm PT
Went past Camp VI the other day at 4:00 in the morning after a long day in the mountains, (made the HD/Nose link-up with 10min to spare!) and I was shocked to see how far down Jesse and Sam were able to get it with some improvised tools. From years past when I tried to haul stuff out of there I know that it's gruesome work, those bottles have decades old urine in them and can spill at any moment. (Actually, one did in our brand new haulbag).

It still smells pretty gnarly, so I can't wait to get back up and get the rest cleaned out. When it's finally done I think I'll spend a victory week camping there.

Eric
Yosemite Climbing Ranger
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 7, 2010 - 08:44pm PT
Maybe there's some stuff that could be poured into the crack, that would cause the organic things to break down? The sort of stuff that organic gardeners and composters use? It probably depends on a fairly damp environment, but that seems likely.
Gene

Social climber
Sep 8, 2010 - 03:20pm PT
Clint on the thread linked above says:
I like the cap/seal idea to keep the crack from refilling with trash/feces. Maybe some 2' sections of 6" or so diameter logs could be used to make the cap/seal instead of cement or foam. Trim to fit with a saw and hammer into place! They will rot and get smaller over years, but then hammer deeper to retighten; add a new layer on top eventually.


why not?
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 8, 2010 - 07:18pm PT
tony bird,

you are an as#@&%e.

and a effin looser.

jesse does something good and you sh#t on the parade?

you are one effed up individual and you dont deserve sh#t. yeah, looser.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Sep 8, 2010 - 09:46pm PT
i don't think jesse has bothered to answer the issue i raised, hawkeye. he did provide an informational link on the other thread, but it led to nowhere.

i guess i've challenged jesse to be a little more than just mr. nice guy. real public relations steps up to the plate when the going gets rough and makes an effort to mediate, in both directions. i suspect jesse's job description probably precludes that. i suspect he's got a boss telling him to back off. i do understand that posting on the internet can get a little ticklish, but on the other hand it's one of the most effective means of communication going.

hawkeye evidently has gotten it in for me bigtime. gotta tell ya, bud, i'm an old guy with a thick skin. i don't go looking for fights without a reason. tasering is one big reason. it's an instrument of torture and assault, and it can become a dangerous tool in the hands of the wrong kind of LEO. "don't tase me bro" came from the use of a taser to discourage free speech in a public forum. you don't have to like me, hawkeye, but if you're in the least concerned about the direction our country is taking, give this all a second thought.

and since this thread is about the mess at camp 6, why not dig the damn crack out with a long-handled pick, spade and pike and dump it over the side? rake it up, pick it up at the bottom. close the area below for the operation. do it before expected storms, which will wash it clean. don't worry about biohazard. the BLM doesn't issue biohazard warnings when we camp among its cowpies.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 8, 2010 - 11:11pm PT
rox and tony make good company. brains like cowpies.

throwing sh#t off of el cap from C6 would simply end up in more cracks. tony you are an idiot. if you havent been there then STFU you bone headed looser.

and rokjox, there aint no wolves involved so see if your unemployment check is in the mail for the month....

nobody knows the facts about someone being tased but guess what, break the law and the man is there.....
Weld_it

Trad climber
Chatsworth
Sep 8, 2010 - 11:12pm PT
just put a summit log in there like real wood man and make it the shap of the crack and fill it with that.

justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Sep 9, 2010 - 12:22am PT
Ugh! That's just nasty. Humans can be such pigs. I'm with Tami on this one.

I'm just posting a personal thank you to Jessee and the other housekeepers. You guys are saints.
The user formerly known as stzzo

Social climber
Sep 9, 2010 - 12:50am PT
Maybe there's some stuff that could be poured into the crack, that would cause the organic things to break down?

Maybe enzymatic drain cleaner will work.

Weak hydrochloric acid - at the concentration found in our stomachs - might do it, too :-).
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Sep 9, 2010 - 01:29am PT
jesse's supposedly a liaison to the climbing community, coz. tell me why he shouldn't get involved. he saw fit to provide a link to information which didn't exist at one point. why shouldn't he follow up on it?

are people to look forward to general taserings for every little misdemeanor in the park? are there serious dangers to the public from BASE jumping? did ammon mcneely's behavior warrant this response? these are normal questions the public is due in an event like this. the NPS's silence implies that perhaps their position isn't as defensible as it ought to be. will the courts get it all done properly? in most cases, it's all decided long before it gets to court. squawk now or forever hold your peace.

i don't climb the big walls and i don't know the logistics of cleaning up that crack. but it does seem like it shouldn't be that hard, given some of the resources available. put it in a big bag if it's not practical to go over the side with it. hang it there until the next available helicopter, whatever. i still say climbers ought to clean up after themselves. this isn't the rangers' job. what better project for the facelift?

but here's one for all you folks. public servants are paid for out of our tax dollar. it begins and ends with you and me. they are accountable to you and me. we don't have to genuflect in order to talk to them. and a good one will speak plainly and equably.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Sep 9, 2010 - 01:31am PT
Weak hydrochloric acid - at the concentration found in our stomachs - might do it, too :-).



Way to turn poo back into barf.

Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 9, 2010 - 02:04am PT
rox,

sorry, but you are not my type. furthermore, you are a societal leach and i don't want to be leached on ....understand?

you and tonyB set the gold std for f*#ked up individuals. go start a thread on UFO's or somehting useful....
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
Sep 9, 2010 - 02:06am PT
A sign might be good. Foam or anything else to cover the crack is kind of a silly idea.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 9, 2010 - 02:07am PT
BTW TB.

public servants answer to their boss first and foremost. with an ongoing litigation jesse cannot say anything cuz idiots like yourself will the take it as gospel. you idiot.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 9, 2010 - 02:09am PT
lambone, a sign? really? like DONT SH#T HERE?!?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 9, 2010 - 02:40am PT
Maybe there's some sort of indigenous bug, that likes to eat human faeces and such? Some kind of dung beetle? The kind that can survive rough weather and conditions. If they did a really good job, perhaps they'd die out, but occasionally have to be reintroduced. Or maybe a relic population would survive, to explode whenever manna descended upon them from the heavens, in their stygian recesses.

But some composting enzyme would be OK, too.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Sep 9, 2010 - 04:36am PT
Threads are sort of like Camp VI - there are always a few who will dump there, because it's free and satisfies their urge at the moment.
The result is sometimes something that stinks, is ugly, etc.
But if you're lucky you don't have to stay long - just get what you want from the thread/climb and don't pay attention to the ugly bits! :-)
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 9, 2010 - 05:09am PT
Thanks for the hard work, Rescue and Clean-up Jesse

Tony wrote

"jesse's supposedly a liaison to the climbing community, coz. tell me why he shouldn't get involved. he saw fit to provide a link to information which didn't exist at one point. why shouldn't he follow up on it?"

No Ranger is going to make specific comments about a specific pending case BTW. get real, even if he wanted to it would threaten his job. That's going to have to be worked out in the courts whether we like it or not. Leave Jesse out of it since he has no say, no control, and no ability to reveal anything

Peace

karl
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Sep 9, 2010 - 09:11am PT
fyi, i was leaving this thread alone, but hawkeye came along with his tantrum.

you're right about answering to the boss first, though, hawkeye. the big problem is that the bosses are no longer accountable to the public.

i will agree with jesse on one thing: let's clean it out and keep it natural. and i'd love to see the sign tami would come up with.

karl, i can't agree with you. jesse is not just a ranger on the range, he has a specific role with the climbing community. i'm suggesting that that role should include normal public relations, and that would include being a spokesperson when something controversial comes up. as i said before, the NPS's silence about this does not make them look good. lots of comments get made on high profile cases while they are pending. lawyers on both sides know the value of posturing at that time.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 9, 2010 - 09:26am PT
no tantrum here tony, go start a thread on UFO's or other highly useful stuff then you and the klimmers and RJs of the world can unite...

BTW, have you ever even been to C6 tony? you are one ignorant individual....
MisterE

Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
Sep 9, 2010 - 09:40am PT
Thanks for the follow-up pictures, Jesse! That rope looks naaaasty!

Above and beyond the call of duty, for sure! See you at Facelift!


Erik Wolfe
canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
Sep 9, 2010 - 12:16pm PT
I vote you stuff Tony down the hole. It's natural and it biodegrades. Win-win for ST and El Cap.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 9, 2010 - 12:21pm PT
as someone who started climbing bigwalls in the late 70's, i always hated the thought that you worked so hard to get to a place that smelled like sh#t. because of that most of my big walling was done in locations that were less popular. they are still out there. if you are going to climb el cap then do so with respect for others.....
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Sep 9, 2010 - 01:20pm PT
Thank you gents, that is one nasty job you take on. Annualy too, I might add. And thanks to YOSAR, without you folks, we could become an endangered species.

Nice pics, hope I never have to meet you in person, no offense intended(exception- Hey Libby,stay safe girl), it's just your job is counter productive to doing my passion properly.

I kind of like the plug the crack with natural debris, but some fools would be sure to pull it up, do their selfish deed, and then burn the top layer in the usual senseless campfire ritual that so many seem to need when out of doors. Cement and steel, not so cool a solution in the wilds, and foam, although practical, nada.

Thanks for the work, nasty as it is, I know I am planning on habit changes, hauling my pee is not that big of an ordeal. Thanks Mark, a new ethic or practice may be on the horizon, for the better, too. Raising the bar on our behavior is just good practice.

Tami's artwork after a few days out would certainly be amusing, but I carried a buttload of stuff down the talus this May, replentished almost daily, and this convinces me that there are a lot of climbers who just do not care what they do. I made at least a dozen trips up and down the talus over the course of a month, and never had a problem filling my day pack with food containers, worn out/broken gear, bags with the infamous coilers, etc., etc. Some of it was scattered by the bear who frequented the base, but most of it can not be blamed on him, he doesn't leave apple cores like we do, or open his tuna cans with an opener. I am not sure if a cartoon or sign will change the mind of an offender, or just be like grafiti on the camp 4 stalls walls, just something to read while doing the deed.

A solution for now seems to fall on the shoulders of Jesse and Sam, backed by the work of the Yosar folks. Only to be poo pood on by next years flock of gumbies, litterers, and turd bandits. Again, Thank You for your efforts, I have never personally needed you, but that doesn't mean I do not appreciate what you do.

Burly Bob
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Sep 9, 2010 - 01:25pm PT
the more sh#t i read that tony writes the more i realize he is a troll. nobody is that freaking ignorant are they?
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Sep 9, 2010 - 05:43pm PT
Jesus you go away for a couple of months, come back and still see America either going down the drain or will be going up in smoke but hey.

Jesse

Never did get to honor my commitment the first time when I started this in thanking you when I said beers or drinks were on me at the Ahwahnee Hotel. Looks like I owe a couple of nights. Good job on camp sick. Noticed HazMat, suits Level D? But who cares.

Ok for the plug. You had mentioned not the idea of concrete because not ethical or environmental friendly.

Concrete starts off with being a rock, Manufactures break it down, heat it, add gypsum….. Then shape it back into a rock: bridges, sidewalk, road, buildings.

If you look at buildings or hotels in San Francisco, yes, they are grey and ugly and bland, but concrete and cement have come a long way in trendy and environmental as well as sustainable material to consider in construction. Google “Shanghai” , Beijing or Singapore and look at the structures there. Colour and no grey. I think this is where you are hung up on because it will look like a grey concrete sidewalk or slab.

Cement is just a binder: glue. Cement comes in various forms or formulations, Portland cement is just one, Polymer cements is another and so on and so on.

As for colours; Portland cement is grey and then there is white, a tad more expensive since it is a true portland cement just missing the iron and magnesium oxides.

Granite is an igneous rock that is what we have in Yosemite. It is natural. On the East side are volcanic glass one being pumice that is natural. Columbia just outside Sonora has sedimentary rocks: limestone a carbonate that is a binder and when crushed or made into a powder or flour, 15%-20% can be added to the Portland to add compressive strength but in the case of the plug not necessary.

So the only things to make this slurry would be granite from good old Yosemite various sizes and very little fines, glue [cement with correct natural oxide colouoring added] and water from the Merced River that flows through the valley. Plasticizers are made from trees; the new generations are sugar based. How natural can you get?

Foam will not work; rats eat it up and love it. Spray toxic chemicals for them to stay away so that is not natural plus climbers will most likely eat it as well.

Still say 76mm -100mm [4-6 in] reason for mm you are in a federal jurisdiction and have to conform to SI units will do the trick.

Stuff geotech matrix between the two walls, pour slurry into and top of matrix, level it off so rain or pee will run off and not collect on the slug, brush top off with water and shape with rubber knobbed mat that will resemble granite finish. Will set up and cure in ten minutes. Collect gear and then climb off or rap down.

Total weight of equipment and material in: 35 kilos Two haul sacs. Total weight of equipment out: two haul sacs, empty water containers, say the most 3 kilos.
jfs

Trad climber
Upper Leftish
Mar 3, 2011 - 12:15am PT
In late May, a group of climbers started a major clean-up effort on the Nose of El Capitan, clearing 30 large garbage bags of trash off the summit and route, excavating up to 10 feet deep in waste filled cracks. The clean-up team consisted of students and faculty of Prescott College in Arizona, along with several Yosemite climbers.

"It's amazing that the climbers who make it all the way to Camp VI are the ones leaving glass containers and such things as a complete set of measuring spoons," said crew member Constantine Serveris.

At press time the crew had removed 17 bags of trash from Camp VI, 10 bags from the summit, and three more below from Dolt Tower. Three crew members climbed and cleaned the East Ledges and fixed rope from the summit to Camp VI.

Bad weather forced the lower party to retreat , while mixed snow and rain hampered the efforts of the summit crew. The crew completed the clean-up despite one of the wettest seasons in memory. "In some ways , the bad weather helps because there are fewer climbers on the route," said crew member Matt Menard.

The Prescott College students designed and constructed special tools for extricating trash from deep cracks, and utilized a garden hoe for the huge accumulations of garbage in the cracks of Camp VI.

The group hopes to aid the Park Service and the climbing access groups in an effort to educate climbers about cleaner and sager big-wall climbing in Yosemite. With a grant from the American Alpine Club, the plan to develop a brochure promoting a "pack it up and pack it out" ethic.

"I think it's great that climbers are initiating this kind of project," said Mark Fincher, Yosemite's climbing management program director.

 Eve Tallman

Sound familiar? Surprisingly (to me) the above is from issue 154 of Climbing magazine...that would be September of 1995. Randomly found it today. Too bad "we" didn't learn anything from this back then...

More props to Jesse and crew. Let's hope we, as a community, can clean up our act...it's about time.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 3, 2011 - 11:50pm PT
Nothing much new under the sun, sadly. Well, at least we're trying.
p-owed

Trad climber
Ramona ca
Mar 4, 2011 - 01:45am PT
Just dump some gas in their and toss in a road flare. problem solved!!
MisterE

Social climber
Cinderella Story, Outa Nowhere
Mar 13, 2011 - 10:55pm PT
This was such an amazing effort - thanks you guys.
MZiebell

Social climber
Prescott, AZ
Apr 20, 2011 - 06:56pm PT
MTucker

You're in the wrong fuking thread dude.

Get with it man.

You ain't got a fuking clue either by posting in this thread and ragging on Jesse who hasn't got anything to do with your problem.

Now git your ass over there and do your bitching there ...


Classic Werner!

Thanks!
MTucker

Ice climber
Arizona
Apr 21, 2011 - 12:51am PT
MZiebell, welcome back after 2 years.

j-tree

Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
Aug 25, 2014 - 02:11pm PT
Bump
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