Swami Belt Tightness?

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Messages 1 - 32 of total 32 in this topic

blackguardx

Trad climber

Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 20, 2010 - 11:35pm PT

I was at Vedauwoo earlier this week flailing at some offwidths. Looking for something to blame besides my technique, I began cursing the stiff rear gear loops on my Metolius harness. I decided to try some old school magic and fashioned a swami belt with three wraps of one inch webbing tied with a water knot. I made it tight enough so that it couldn't slip past my hips and away I went.

It was great because I could reposition my tie-in knot to the side and I hardly noticed the swami was there. Then I tried some top roping. If I ever fell or tried hanging, it hurt like hell and made me think my ribs were going to break. "Resting" on the rope just tired me out more quickly.

Is there a better way? How tight (or loose) should a swami be? How much more comfortable is two inch webbing? I shudder to think about a hanging belay in one of these.

WBraun

climber

Aug 20, 2010 - 11:38pm PT

How tight (or loose) should a swami be?

????????? Is this really happening ?????????????

Mimi

climber

Aug 20, 2010 - 11:42pm PT

Hold on WB, it's like that # bolts on El Captin thread. Just look away.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Aug 20, 2010 - 11:45pm PT

here you go
Swami belt instructional video

Russ Walling and the BAWC are to Throbbing Gristle what Wiley E. Coyote is to the Road Runner
(Acme Products item #5200, Wide Fist Stacks, no go)

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Aug 20, 2010 - 11:50pm PT

Loose enough to facilitate breathing, tight enough to jnsure that that, was not the fish that got away.
Garden Gnome accessorizing, optional...

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Aug 20, 2010 - 11:50pm PT

Been there, done that: climbing evolves, join the crowd.

Mimi

climber

Aug 20, 2010 - 11:51pm PT

Yep, just lost my pale ale all over the keyboard.

Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber

Santa Barbara

Aug 20, 2010 - 11:52pm PT

Only 3 wraps of 1" webbing?
ouch :(

edit: Mimi, the O.P, not Russ. Russ is stylin' in his new
2" multi-wrap

hooblie

climber

from where the anecdotes roam

Aug 20, 2010 - 11:52pm PT

har matey, ye can quit yer cinching when the gnarlies blow

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Aug 20, 2010 - 11:54pm PT

But did you use a hip belay, and then descend using a body rappel, or at least a carabiner brake with a diaper sling?

Mimi

climber

Aug 20, 2010 - 11:55pm PT

No, 2" webbing. Very nice and silky looking.

Acer

Big Wall climber

Aug 20, 2010 - 11:57pm PT

Yes, 3 wraps of 2". Should be red.

Just as tight as pants that stay on without a belt. You shouldn't be able to slip the Swami off.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Aug 21, 2010 - 12:01am PT

Red tubular, or red flat? And does the colour indicate anything about one's political leanings?

Acer

Big Wall climber

Aug 21, 2010 - 12:12am PT

Tubular. Has softer edges.

Red? Historical, not political.

Mimi

climber

Aug 21, 2010 - 12:19am PT

Anders, what are you implying? Mussy prolly borrowed that harness. That or he needed a new piece out of the shop to climb with that day and sewed it into one of his products soon after.

rgold

Trad climber

Poughkeepsie, NY

Aug 21, 2010 - 12:50am PT

Three or so wraps of 2" tubular webbing became the standard when we were using swami belts. One trick was to wrap it tightly just on or below the hip bones, not around the waist. (Originally, we put these turns just under our hammer holsters, which served to hold the swami down.) This made for a much more comfortable impact if you fell.

As for hanging, it was never comfortable, which is why handogging had to wait for the invention of the climbing harness. Even with the swami installed on the hips, it would slowly slip up when hanging and eventually strangle the climber; conventional wisdom was that you might last fifteen minutes hanging in a swami, and there were some very unfortunate accidents to suggest there was some truth in that estimate.

Of course, there was a solution to the hanging problem: you had to lean back until almost parallel to the ground, facing up, to keep the pressure on your hips and to keep the swami from slipping up and progressively constricting the rib cage. The extreme version, effective but disorienting, was to purposely turn upside down, which was, however, a good way to loose all the gear on your shoulder sling if you also let your arms hang down.

If it looked like you would be hanging for a while, you would turn upside down, twist a 1" runner into a figure-eight and pull it over your feet to make leg loops. If you passed the runner on the correct side of the rope, it would, when you righted yourself, run down from the swami under the leg loops and then up, thereby immediately engaging and taking your weight off the swami.

We need Steve Grossman to post the original article in Summit Magazine about this by, I think, Chuck Pratt, who called it the "bat hang."

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Aug 21, 2010 - 12:53am PT

nope, Mussy is sporting a special order product off the WideFetish web site..
check out the WideStore

though that particular product isn't shown...
also, Rik Rieder was recently spotted wearing a green swami... with his own sewn leg loops:

nature

climber

Whereverland....

Aug 21, 2010 - 01:50am PT

if your balls turn blue you got it about right.

or maybe you need to get laid?

Blitzo

Social climber

Earth

Aug 21, 2010 - 02:03am PT

Is that belt too tight, Tulouse?

Woah, is some one using a rope at Knob Hill?

Wayno

Big Wall climber

Seattle, WA

Aug 21, 2010 - 02:17am PT

I used to take a long-ass piece of webbing and tie two leg loops about 3" apart and wrap the rest around my waist and then tie the gap between the loops with the raps. It seemed bomber at the time and I probably took at least a couple small falls on it.

Ihateplastic

Trad climber

It ain't El Cap, Oregon

Aug 21, 2010 - 02:27am PT

Thank You Werner. My fingers were too numb from incredulousness to form a polite response.

Ihateplastic

Trad climber

It ain't El Cap, Oregon

Aug 21, 2010 - 02:34am PT

Since the off-width is always above your head a mid-waist tie in will always get in the way; the continual thrusts up the bugger often are aimed (even if absentmindedly) at getting your hips/butt into the crack although this is, quite frequently, the wrong thing to do.

Instead of a waist tie-in I STRONGLY recommend a couple of wraps of 1-inch around your neck as the tie-in point thus alleviating the problem of knots getting jammed between hip and rock. This method is also is an immense commitment builder.

Curt

Boulder climber

Gilbert, AZ

Aug 21, 2010 - 02:46am PT

Two inch tubular webbing is WAY more comfortable. About 12 feet of the stuff ought to do it--at least it does for me.

Curt

blackguardx

Trad climber

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 21, 2010 - 03:09am PT

I didn't think the swami belt was all that bad. It was uncomfortable, but did the job. Maybe when my plasma donation checks come in, I can get a more offwidth specific harness.

It didn't seem like such bad of a question, but a few people seem to have a problem with it.

Either that or they are waiting for their DTs to wear off.

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Aug 21, 2010 - 09:01am PT

Two inch makes it work.They were not that bad to climb in at all,and I kinda liked that they eliminated hanging.I switched to a harness when I got to NH as there were occasional hanging belays.

A few springs ago Tradchick and I played hooky,and planned a final day of ice in Crawford Notch.The warmth in the air was too much for our weak souls,and we instead headed to the South Buttress of Whitehorse to take in the first rock of the season.In the process of switching stuff in the pack,I spaced my harness,thus arrived at the end of a thirty minute approach without.Couldn't recall a bowline on a coil,so sliced up what I had for runners,all 11/16, and made a two wrap swami outta them.We climbed Hotter than Hell,and Inferno without incident.I took my last runner and made figure eight leg loops,but really was glad to finish the two sixty meter rappels to the bottom on that stuff!

'Ot Henry still sports a one inch swami when we see him.

guido

Trad climber

Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific

Aug 21, 2010 - 11:20am PT

Mimi, this is BooDawg! Guido wants to know if you've ever tried bollin'-on-a-dyke?

426

climber

Buzzard Point, TN

Aug 21, 2010 - 11:23am PT

another solution is to cut the gear loops off your harness...surely you have a piece of junk harness laying around, for me it was the old BD.

Mimi

climber

Aug 21, 2010 - 12:28pm PT

Can't tell what the belayer's wearing. Shoulda known Mussy would offer such a specialized piece of gear.

Hey BooDawg! Hope you're enjoying your stateside visit.

Ask Guido whether I would've been in the middle or at the end of my rope when I tried this. LOL!

jstan

climber

Aug 21, 2010 - 01:18pm PT

When your weight is not on your hands and feet a lot the harnesses excel. Otherwise the swami is better. Provided you are careful not to go unconscious or do other silly things. Be sure to read Rgold's post. About sums it up.

If you want to use 1" make sure you have something like twenty feet. And also try to get dynamic belays. The 1" was nice in that the knot seldom got in the way.

Two inch is MUCH more comfortable. Depending on waist size 12' may or may not be enough for the 2". Three or four wraps leaving a foot or more for the ends. In tight spots you can push the knot out of the way just like the tie in. And the junk sling can be moved to the other shoulder or even dragged behind tied onto the rope. At least you could do this before cams were invented. If those things can hang up - they will. Cams can kill you.

Having a little more length on the ends also helps in making the knot tight. Wrap the ends once around each hand and snap tighten the knot. Oh and build a clean looking knot. No twists inside the knot.

You want the swami tight enough so that when you are hanging from it the tie-in gets no higher than your sternum. Absolute max. The suspension point being above your center of mass helps keep your head up too, by the way. Keep the swami below the pectorals.

I once tried hanging some gear from my swami, much as people today do with the harnesses. Mac looked at me, deadpan, and said, "Going to find it interesting when you try to do a chimney that way."

Don't mind these guys. It's PMS. They are Pissed because they are not Mountaineering on a Saturday.

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber

I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!

Aug 21, 2010 - 01:29pm PT

you want the swami as tight as possible for big whippers.

this 4 inch strap will cinch up to 10,000 lbs.

you want a 3 day fast before final cinch up.

no fiber for ten days.

and no eggs.