Discussion Topic |
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This thread has been locked |
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 21, 2010 - 03:07pm PT
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wank, wank, wank...
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apogee
climber
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Jul 21, 2010 - 03:09pm PT
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Yawn.
Eubank, you do realize that a thread like this has been tried before and failed mightily?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 21, 2010 - 03:12pm PT
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Eubank, you do realize that a thread like this has been tried before and failed mightily?
True, because there's no need for a thread with information we already have.
John
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 21, 2010 - 03:19pm PT
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But we don't have photos of fighter jets on the other thread.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 21, 2010 - 03:19pm PT
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Pretty cool blog, Daniel.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2010 - 03:25pm PT
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Thanks for the kind words on the blog!
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2010 - 03:45pm PT
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I have not meet Claude, but appreciate all of the work that the VA does for our Veterans.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 21, 2010 - 03:46pm PT
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 21, 2010 - 03:50pm PT
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Nationalization of Banks, the Auto Industry, and Health Care.
So the banks, auto industry and health care have been nationalized? Oh wait. No they haven't. Just more inaccurate drivel from the right. Drivel on my good man.
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Sunshinesmile
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 21, 2010 - 03:58pm PT
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Where are the fighter jets? I looked twice...
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lucaskrajnik
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jul 21, 2010 - 04:10pm PT
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Im not,and was never in to politics. But, I have always wondered how someone, would classify themselves to any group. I could never see myself saying I'm a dem, or rep, or lib, or con.... just seems weird when I share some of the same principles as all of them.
So how did you guys decide which side to take, If thats in fact what you did?
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BrianH
Trad climber
santa fe
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Jul 21, 2010 - 04:20pm PT
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The only reason people can afford to not be into politics is because they grew up in a system with a well functioning, non-predatory government and an economic system that tamped down the worst impulses of corporate greedhead behavior. That of course is changing, and the pace of change is akin to a glacier. Mostly imperceptible but constant, but with occasional surges.
People choose to affiliate with one group or another because of their family, friends, and community where they grew up. Such things color your perceptions, so that one person can see a particular governmental action and say "that's nationalization" and a different person sees the exact same thing and says "that's a corporate bailout for rich people."
My brother plays bridge with a Navy pilot who delivered the mail to the carrier on which he was based. Over 200 landings on a carrier, that guy has nerves of steel, I'll tell you what!
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Sunshinesmile
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 21, 2010 - 04:21pm PT
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John McCain must be a good pilot then. Has nothing to do with politics in my opinion...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 21, 2010 - 04:27pm PT
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I was sitting next to a Navy Pilot at the bar a few days ago, he says McCain must have been a piss-poor pilot.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2010 - 04:28pm PT
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John McCain flew the A-4E Skyhawk.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 21, 2010 - 04:28pm PT
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Congrats, Eubank- your thread has hit 21!
Only 24537 more posts to catch up....
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2010 - 04:31pm PT
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Wisdom is only found in truth.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 21, 2010 - 04:40pm PT
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McCain is a commie! Not only did he live in North Vietnam during the war, he was living high on the hog at the Hilton in Hanoi while our boys were fighting it out in the rice paddies.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 21, 2010 - 04:40pm PT
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There they are! VVVRRROooooooommmmmm!!! Sorry, maybe I should have linked the jets to his page when I mentioned them earlier.
edit: One thing is certain... McCain was a pilot. Can't argue with that. BTW, he served on the same Aircraft Carrier that my dad did - USS Forrestal.
double edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Forrestal_%28CV-59%29
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 21, 2010 - 04:42pm PT
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Sunshinesmile
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 21, 2010 - 04:46pm PT
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Don't think they would let him fly if he was piss poor... but then again maybe that is why he stopped flying.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 21, 2010 - 04:57pm PT
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Dr F writes:
"Please post one thing that Republicans have done good in the last 30 years"
What makes you think the Republicans have any answers?
Government - at all levels - does NOT have your best intrests at heart, and they haven't for as long as anyone can remember.
Government's only tool is force and coercion. Nobody wants to be on the recieving end of that.
And there is certainly something seriously wrong with those who want to bully others.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 21, 2010 - 04:59pm PT
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I bet Crimp's Dad was a better pilot....
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2010 - 05:06pm PT
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Once upon a time the government had a vast scrap yard in the middle of
A desert. Congress said, "someone may steal from it at night.." So they
created a night watchman position and hired a person for the job..
Then Congress said, "How does the watchman do his job without
instruction?" So they created a planning department and hired two
people, one person to write the instructions, and one person to do time
studies.
Then Congress said, "How will we know the night watchman is doing
The tasks correctly?" So they created a Quality Control department and
hired two people. One to do the studies and one to write the reports.
Then Congress said, "How are these people going to get paid?" So
They created the following positions, a time keeper, and a payroll
officer, then hired two people.
Then Congress said, "Who will be accountable for all of these
people?" So they created an administrative section and hired three
people, an Administrative Officer, Assistant Administrative Officer, and a
Legal Secretary.
Then Congress said, "We have had this command in operation for one
Year and we are $18,000 over budget, we must cutback overall cost."
So they laid off the night watchman.
NOW slowly.
Let it sink in.
Quietly, we go like sheep to slaughter.
Does anybody remember the reason given for the establishment of the
DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY .... During the Carter Administration ?
Anybody?
Anything?
No?
Didn't think so!
Bottom line. We've spent several hundred billion dollars in support of
An agency ... the reason for which not one person who reads this can
remember!
Ready?? It was very simple ... and, at the time, everybody thought it
Very appropriate.
The Department of Energy was instituted on 8-04-1977. TO LESSEN OUR
DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL.
Hey, pretty efficient, huh???
AND, NOW, IT'S 2010 -- 33 YEARS LATER -- AND THE BUDGET FOR THIS
"NECESSARY" DEPARTMENT IS AT $24.2 BILLION A YEAR.
THEY HAVE 16,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES AND APPROXIMATELY 100,000 CONTRACT EMPLOYEES; AND, LOOK AT THE JOB THEY HAVE DONE!
THIS IS WHERE YOU SLAP YOUR FOREHEAD AND SAY, "WHAT WAS I THINKING?"
Ah, yes -- That good ole bureaucracy.
And, NOW, we are going to turn the banking system, HEALTH CARE and the
Auto industry over to the Government?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 21, 2010 - 05:08pm PT
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Dr F,
Perhaps you like being intimidated by force into doing things you would rather not do. If so, you're in the minority.
The Democrats are the target of scorn today because they are the ones in control.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 21, 2010 - 05:08pm PT
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You are correct! My dad was a great pilot. He has since stopped flying at all (health issues).
My dad has old 8mm film from his time on the aircraft carrier. I LOVE to watch those. They are primarily during time in the Mediterranean. Cool beans!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 21, 2010 - 05:08pm PT
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McCain was a good pilot?
Hardly.
From factcheck.org
We have had numerous questions about this widely circulated claim. Some say McCain "lost" five planes, others that he "crashed" five planes. All offer this alleged "fact" as evidence that he was a bad pilot. All are incorrect.
McCain did lose two Navy aircraft while piloting them. One crash was found to be be McCain's fault, the other due to an engine failure of undetermined cause.. A third was destroyed on the deck of the carrier USS Forrestal when a missile fired accidentally from another plane hit either the plane next to McCain's or, less likely, his own aircraft, triggering a disastrous fire that killed 134 sailors and nearly killed McCain. A fourth plane was lost when he was shot down over North Vietnam on a bombing mission over Hanoi.
A fifth alleged "crash" turns out to be a misinterpretation of a flight accident that did not result in the loss of the aircraft. McCain admitted to causing that incident through "daredevil clowning" but returned safely.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 21, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
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Haha!
I like this Daniel guy...
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lucaskrajnik
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jul 21, 2010 - 05:25pm PT
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Very good analogy Eubank,
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 21, 2010 - 05:28pm PT
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Whoa. I thought it was 2010.
edit: This made sense before a prior post was edited.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 21, 2010 - 05:54pm PT
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//The Department of Energy was instituted on 8-04-1977. TO LESSEN OUR
DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL.
Hey, pretty efficient, huh???//
Wow, that's some painful logic. Actually, I take that back. That is no logic.
To be frank, I'm not sure what exactly your point was re the Dept. of Energy. I understand that some of it was irony at government bureaucracy. However, if it was to chastise the Dems, you kind of stuck your foot in your mouth.
While clearly this country is way too hungry for oil, the Repubs are the biggest reason why the country has failed to take any substantive action on limiting its oil dependence or consumption.
You're old enough to remember Jimmy Carter running for a second term against Reagan. Jimmy made a long impassioned speech about the country's dependence on foreign oil and its need to find alternative sources of energy. Reagan's response? "It's morning in America." Everything's great. This is a great country. Let's not engage in any introspection or change or austerity but, on the contrary, plow ahead as if there's no problem. One of Reagan's first acts when moving into the White House was to remove the solar panels that Jimmy Carter installed.
I can see this thread isn't going to make any new converts.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 21, 2010 - 06:32pm PT
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That video is awesome!!!
Watch the guy's facial expressions when he's pulling G's. And that takeoff!
Badass!!!!!!!
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Jul 21, 2010 - 07:01pm PT
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I like the night watchman story on the previous page. It sounds pretty true.
On the other hand a Republican administration would have outsourced the night watchman position to a company like Blackwater and we would have paid the same dear price on the justification the the money would trickle down into the economy of "the people."
If anarchists were running the country, opportunists would have stolen the junk and recycled into useful products providing jobs, products and income from waste.
If we were a monarchy, like ancient Rome under Caesar, the junkyard may or may not be guarded but there would plenty of money because we would busy owning conquered territories like Germany & Japan, taxing their asses off, and seizing unconditional control of countries that piss us off like Afganistan & Iraq.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 21, 2010 - 07:03pm PT
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It is each individual STATE that determines if the Pledge should be said
in PUBLIC schools, not an individual school, or the students, making that decision.
From Wikipedia, to clarify:
Pledge of Allegiance
The Pledge of Allegiance of the United States is an oath of loyalty to the national flag and the republic of the United States of America, originally composed by Francis Bellamy in 1892. The Pledge has been modified four times since then, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954.
The Pledge is predominantly sworn by children in public schools in response to state laws requiring the Pledge to be offered.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 21, 2010 - 07:04pm PT
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Repugnican credo:
1) Repeat lies over and over until the brainless Repug droids believe and regurgitate them.
2) When in doubt, lie some more. (See 'The Big Lie')
3) Distract the attentions of the masses with any shiny thing you can find.
4) If there are any waivering droids, repeat Rule #1.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 21, 2010 - 07:07pm PT
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Why are there braille dots on the drive-thru ATM?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 21, 2010 - 07:16pm PT
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On the other hand a Republican administration would have outsourced the night watchman position to a company like Blackwater and we would have paid the same dear price on the justification the the money would trickle down into the economy of "the people."
If anarchists were running the country, opportunists would have stolen the junk and recycled into useful products providing jobs, products and income from waste.
If we were a monarchy, like ancient Rome under Caesar, the junkyard may or may not be guarded but there would plenty of money because we would busy owning conquered territories like Germany & Japan, taxing their asses off, and seizing unconditional control of countries that piss us off like Afganistan & Iraq.
I wonder what it would be like under an independent conservative?
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 21, 2010 - 07:20pm PT
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I wonder what it would be like under an independent conservative?
F*#ked.
"Outsourcing is rightsourcing." -- Carly Fiorina
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 21, 2010 - 08:41pm PT
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maybe because NO one can even think of ONE THING, that the Republicans have done that was Good
You're an embarrassment to liberals, Dr.F, but I don't expect people here to point that out.
Remember when Bush created that huge Marine Preserve near the Marianna Islands??? Was that good?
And that's just recent history...
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 22, 2010 - 12:45am PT
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maybe because NO one can even think of ONE THING, that the Republicans have done that was Good
Good? Good for who? The Republicans strengthened the hand of the Iranian mullahs by giving them a boogeyman to scare their people with, while at the same time eliminating one of their old enemies, Iraq, and turning them into an ally.
President George W. Bush has secured the endorsement of a surprising ally in his bid for re-election. Bush once branded the country part of an “axis of evil” threatening global security, but Iran’s mullahs last week expressed the wish that he be given four more years in the White House.
Hasan Rowhani, head of Iran’s Supreme National Security Council, seemed confident Bush would not bow to pressure from members of his administration for military action against Iran’s nuclear facilities. “We haven’t seen anything good from Democrats,” he told state-run television. “We do not desire to see Democrats take over.” Rowhani reminded television viewers of the sanctions imposed when Bill Clinton was president and added: “We should not forget that during Bush’s era — despite his hardline and baseless rhetoric — he didn’t take, in practical terms, any dangerous action against Iran.”
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Jul 22, 2010 - 12:52am PT
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"John McCain flew the A-4E Skyhawk."--Eubank
Which kind did he fly poorly--as in crash?
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2010 - 07:05am PT
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The primary mission of the A-4E during Vietnam was Close Air Support (CAS) and Deep Air Support (DAS). John McCain was shot down during a DAS mission. The A-4 can carry AIM-9 Sidewinders on the #1 and #4 pylons (outboard pylons) and is very effective / maneuverable for Air Combat Maneuvering (ACM). This photo shows an A-4E in 1967 over Vietnam armed with an AIM-9 Sidewinder, an Infrared Air to Air Missile (Only purpose for that weapons load is fighter).
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
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Jul 22, 2010 - 10:16am PT
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Both McCain and the A-4 are out-of-date.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 22, 2010 - 10:48am PT
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Old School A-4?
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 22, 2010 - 11:55am PT
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So, coz, what you write has a lot of truth.
What I can't figure out is why the Republicans don't love him? Like Bill Clinton, he's a far better Republican than any of their presidents have been.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 22, 2010 - 12:05pm PT
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I think the problem is, really.... that there is not a big difference in the parties, it's just who's in power giving money and influence to the people that put them there.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! Give that man a ceegar!
We have a plutocracy that starting back in the '70s began turning into a kleptocracy. The question is how do we get our country back.
And it ain't those stooges in the Tea Party.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 12:42pm PT
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"I think the problem is, really.... that there is not a big difference in the parties..."
Yes and no. True, both parties are steered by gi-normous special interests that are far removed from the voice and intent of citizens.
However, there is a clear difference in the issues each party chooses for their agenda. You can bet yer arse that if McLame had won, issues like healthcare reform, finance reform, and a host of others would never get any attention at all. Instead, we would have bombed Iran and be in the midst of WW III, and since McFlip-Flop would be dead by now, we'd have Sarah Palin as our 'fearless leader'.
Given the alternative, I'd say we're doing ok.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2010 - 12:54pm PT
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Barrack Hussain Obama's First Year of 'Accomplishments':
1. Offended the Queen of England.
2. Bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia.
3. Praised the Marxist Daniel Ortega.
4. Kissed Socialist Hugo Chavez on the cheek.
5. Endorsed the Socialist Evo Morales of Bolivia .
6. Sided with Hugo Chavez and Communist Fidel Castro against Honduras
7. Announced we would meet with Iranians with no pre-conditions while
they're building their nuclear weapons.
8. Gave away billions to AIG also without pre-conditions. It is noteworthy that AIG manages the retirement accounts for the Legislative Branch.
9. Expanded the bailouts.
10. Insulted everyone who has ever loved a Special Olympian.
11. Doubled our national debt.
12. Announced the termination of our new missile defense system the
day after North Korea launched an ICBM.
13. Released information on U.S. intelligence gathering despite
urgings of his own CIA director and the prior four CIA directors.
14. Accepted without comment that five of his cabinet members cheated
on their taxes and two other nominees withdrew after they couldn't
take the heat.
15. Appointed a Homeland Security Chief who identified military
veterans and abortion opponents as "dangers to the nation".
16. Ordered that the word "terrorism" no longer be used and instead
refers to such acts as "man made disasters".
17. Circled the globe to publicly apologize for America 's world leadership.
18. Told the Mexican president that the violence in their country was
because of us.
19. Politicized the census by moving it into the White House from the
Department of Commerce.
20. Appointed as Attorney General the man who orchestrated the forced
removal and expulsion to Cuba of a 9-year-old whose mother died
trying to bring him to freedom in the United States.
21. Salutes as heroes three Navy SEALS who took down three terrorists
who threatened one American life and the next day announces members of the Bush administration may stand trial for "torturing" three 9/11
terrorists by pouring water up their noses.
22. Low altitude photo shoot of Air Force One over New York City that
frightened thousands of New Yorkers.
23. Sent his National Defense Adviser to Europe to assure them that
the US will no longer treat Israel in a special manner and they might be on their own with the Muslims.
24. Praised Jimmy Carter's trip to Gaza where he sided with terrorist
Hamas against Israel .
25. Nationalized General Motors and Chrysler while turning shareholder
control over to the unions and freezing out retired investors who
owned their bonds. Committed unlimited taxpayer billions in the
process.
26. Passed a huge energy tax in the House that will make American
industry even less competitive while costing homeowners thousands per
year.
27. Passed nationalized health care "reform" that will create the equivalent of Medicare for all U.S. Citizens, will cut the pay of physicians,
28. Increased taxes yet another $1 trillion, and put everyone on rationed care with government bureaucrats deciding who gets care and who doesn't.
29. Bloomberg: Daschle says, "Health care reform will not be pain free.
Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age
instead of treating them," while former Colorado Governor Dick Lamm
says seniors have "a duty to die."
If this does not sufficiently raise your ire, just remember that the
President, Senators and Congressmen have their own special gold plated
health care plan which is guaranteed the remainder of their lives after serving only one year in office and they are not subject to this new 'Health Care Reform' law as passed.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 12:57pm PT
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"4. Kissed Socialist Hugo Chavez on the cheek."
At least he didn't kiss a Saudi Prince on the mouth:
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 01:01pm PT
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Hey, Eubank-
Name one tangible, clear example of something that has directly & negatively impacted your life that was strictly and completely due to an Obama-created policy.
Just one.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 01:13pm PT
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Weak examples, coz, and a great stretch of truth. Try again.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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'directly & negatively impacted'
* There is a tax Tsunami on the Horizon *
My personal income taxes will go up.
Come next year I will be paying income tax on my company provided health care insurance benefit, whether I use them or not. This is designed to pay for ObamaCare.
The lowest bracket for the personal income tax, moves up 50% — to 15% from 10%. The next lowest bracket — 25% — will rise to 28%, and the old 28% bracket will be 31%. At the higher end, the 33% bracket is pushed to 36% and the 35% bracket becomes 39.6%.
The marriage penalty also makes a comeback, and the capital gains tax will jump 33% — to 20% from 15%. The tax on dividends will go all the way from 15% to 39.6% — a 164% increase.
You will no longer be able to use health savings account, flexible spending account, or health reimbursement pretax dollars to purchase nonprescription, over-the-counter medicines.
Through the end of this year, the federal estate tax rate is zero — thanks to the package of broad-based tax cuts that President Bush pushed through to get the economy going earlier in the decade. But as of midnight Dec. 31, the death tax returns — at a rate of 55% on estates of $1 million or more. The effect this will have on hospital life-support systems is already a matter of conjecture.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 01:19pm PT
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coz, you just like to fight and argue for the sake of arguing, and then watch the fireworks.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 01:21pm PT
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"My personal income taxes will go up. "
Yeah, I know, Eubank, that is the penultimate fear that has permeated your brain by the FauxNews GOP media poodles, but I am asking for an example of something that has already come to pass, and was entirely due to Obama.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 01:33pm PT
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He cut funding to special ops, I have no contracts to train them.
Defense spending hasn't changed in the last few years- if anything, it has increased with a further commitment to Afghanistan. And waitaminit...aren't you the one who said that the guiding industry was working way below it's potential because it wasn't going after the right market? I guess we should be targeting gov't contracts and charging them extravagant fees to teach them how to do Australian rappels and shoot at the same time? 'No contracts to train them'? Sounds like suckling from the governmental teat to me.
He raise taxes, yes on me.
Prove it, please.
He put a moratorium on drilling sending the stock market tumbling.
So he shouldn't have done that? Better to just keep doing the same thing, without trying to figure out what went wrong and fix it? And you think that this action is the sole reason the stock market tumbled (again)? That's the kind of rationale that FauxNews republagumbys follow.
He squeezed the rich people who make movies in the US, so they have to produce over-seas.
Uh...ok, right. There's a latin phrase that describes this kind of disconnected logic...something about non-sequiter...
Net, cost of Obama to me, about 70-100 grand.
Yeah. Sure it is. If McLame had been POTUS, you'd be up by 70-100 g's, then, right?
I'll bet an extra-hoppy IPA you voted for Obama, too.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2010 - 01:37pm PT
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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 01:40pm PT
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Eubank, still waiting for a clear answer.
One example of something that bad has happened to you since 1/20/09 that is completely and entirely due to Obama. Not projections, not possibilities, not theories....clear, demonstrable examples.
Just one.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
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I swear, every time someone asks that question, the republagumbys get real quiet, and slink back to their slimy holes.
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lucaskrajnik
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:20pm PT
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It takes time for the smell of s#it to permeate through the layers.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2010 - 02:22pm PT
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appogee said:
'Yawn. Eubank, you do realize that a thread like this has been tried before and failed mightily?'
Congrats, Eubank- your thread has hit 21! Only 24537 more posts to catch up....
------------
Congats, apogee - your posts have helped to put this thread to the 100 posts mark...
http://danieldeubank.wordpress.com/
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2010 - 02:27pm PT
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Dr. F = Dr. Flame
Wisdom is only found in truth.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:30pm PT
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"your posts have helped to put this thread to the 100 posts mark..."
I learned a long time ago on these threads that if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!
Edit: We'll see how long it lasts, though- every other similar thread has eventually withered.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:33pm PT
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Come on, Eubank...differentiate yourself from every other Repug Droid who frequents these threads, and validate all of your fearmongering, paranoid FauxNews talking points:
Name one negative thing that has occurred to you that is entirely due to an Obama Administration policy.
Just one.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:35pm PT
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apogee, Eubank can't. There's just no there there. The man just has nothing intellilgent to say.
I propose a new title for this thread: "Which came first, the Republicans, or the lies that spawned them?
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:39pm PT
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Wisdom is only found in truth.
Then you are not very wise.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:39pm PT
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Fat Dad, per your suggestion, I tried starting a thread with the title:
Which came first, the Republicans, or the lies that spawned them?
It wouldn't fit- it got cut off at: ...spaw
Still, it's good idea for another polititard thread.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:41pm PT
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Eubank, are you still there? Or are you out searching the rightwing whackjob blogosphere for another teabagging cut and paste list of republagumby droid rants?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:48pm PT
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Dr. F, thanks. My skin crawls at the thought I might be confused with Fatty. Brrr.
Anyways, Eubanks cut and paste the following:
Through the end of this year, the federal estate tax rate is zero — thanks to the package of broad-based tax cuts that President Bush pushed through to get the economy going earlier in the decade. But as of midnight Dec. 31, the death tax returns — at a rate of 55% on estates of $1 million or more. The effect this will have on hospital life-support systems is already a matter of conjecture.
Wrong. As an estate planning lawyer, I can tell you that the law regulating the estate tax rate--EGTRRA, which went into effect in 2001--specifically directed that the estate tax credit would gradually increase over a ten year period, be phased out altogether in 2010 and then drop back down to $1 million in 2011. While that drop may happen during Obama's presidency, clearly the law was enacted while a Republican was in office. Also, Obama has been pushing to keep the credit in effect in 2009--$3.5 million--which is what he said he would do when campaigning. The House approved a version of a bill to do that before the end of this year.
While it's waiting for Senate approval, nothing has been approved because the Repubs are holding off in an effort to repeal it entirely, which benefits who...the VERY rich. In other words, rather than enacting a reasonable credit of $3.5 million (which still allows wealthier families to easily double that amount and engage in means of avoiding or limited tax), the Repubs are risking the credit dropping to $1 million because they've been unwilling to accept the $3.5 million on the table.
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
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Jul 22, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
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What I find interesting is those who continually preach self-sufficiency and being a productive member of society have issue with the estate tax.
Shouldn't EVERYONE be self-sufficient? Even those that are the off-spring of wealthy individuals?
I believe the word is Nepotism.
If you have sooooo much money that you are worried about where it goes once you are gone, endow it to truly worthy causes that make the planet a better place and tell your kids to work hard and do the same - just don't sit there and wait for your parents to die so you can live a "good" life.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 22, 2010 - 03:15pm PT
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Coz wrote
He is slowly draining the money from the wealthy so they have no dough to spend on tourism, construction, homes, etc etc. Driving the dept so high, with his fantasy, that just about every country in the world is telling him to stop.
Just what has Obama done that has drained the wealthy?
The rich have never been richer, compared to the rest of the country, than right now
How how did the debt get so much higher? Bailing out the wealthy from the economic crash left over from the Bush Administration. Bush inherited record surplus and left record deficit and an economy ready to meltdown. Obama rescued the rich with borrowing. Maybe it was stupid but it wasn't for entitlements and homeless shelters. It was for Goldman Sachs.
peace
Karl
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michae1
Gym climber
san jose
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Jul 22, 2010 - 03:49pm PT
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no need to name call , it doesn't validate a point any more then yelling
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 22, 2010 - 03:50pm PT
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I have not posted the other one and just wanted to get in early....
..?....
well...... here I am!
Woot!
I only want to say that the difference between the dems and repubs seems to be this:
Democrats are for taxing and spending: -taking the country into the shithole.
Republicans are for borrowing and spending: taking the country into an even deeper shithole.
Clinton was the exception. I see little difference between Bush and Obama - they BOTH seemed intent on spending our country into hell. Samesame NO DIFFERENCE! I bet that both of their wives handle their finances. Our children will be paying for this craziness. Time to vote libertarian and reduce the size of big government.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 04:04pm PT
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"Time to vote libertarian and reduce the size of big government."
As soon as they come up with a candidate who is truly rational and not too whacked, I'll consider it. Ron Paul is a long ways from that, though.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 06:34pm PT
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"He is cutting defense spending around the board. Believe or not."
Proof?
Besides the fact that you didn't get that special ops contract?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 22, 2010 - 07:16pm PT
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Kudos if Obama cut the military budget (although he hasn't) Maybe a few wasteful programs could go.
Fact is, we could spend trillions and not beat a few thousands guys like the Taliban who are defending home, and don't mind dying. We spent TONS trying to get ahead in Afghanistan, one of the poorest country in the world, that had almost no military, no air force, no navy and it's been 9 Years.
And yet, we have Zero worry about being invaded here. so why waste lives and money screwing with countries that can't reach us? Don't say 9-11. We could have beat that with cockpit doors and better visa officials.
peace
karl
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apogee
climber
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Jul 22, 2010 - 07:24pm PT
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"Kudos if Obama cut the military budget (although he hasn't)"
Karl, do you have access to any of the gov't reports that demonstrate the consistency (increase, if I remember correctly) in military spending under Obama? They have popped up repeatedly in other threads...
"And yet, we have Zero worry about being invaded here."
No, we don't, but Coz is worried sick that the reason he lost his Special Ops contracts is because Obama cut military spending. Maybe it's something else...?
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Jul 22, 2010 - 07:39pm PT
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Democrats believe that "rich" folks employed exist to pay taxes so they can buy votes for their reelection. What they don't understand is that they are creating a climate where one questions why should I work? and why should invest my money in the US?
Example: Child going to college. If husband works (construction), then we move to higher tax bracket, can not qualify for education credits, can not get subsidized college loans, can not put money into IRA, get charitable deductions limited, etc. As a financial professional, it was very easy to run the numbers and conclude that husband should work on our house and not make taxable wages. Thus no income tax on his wages, no social security, and we get to drink of tax preference nectar.
Example: Energy policy in total disarray. For months there was no energy policy in place. Thus my company took its multi-billion dollar construction program and diverted its construction plans to other countries and scaled back its US investment for calendar 2009 and 2010. Once the ITC was in place and a project successfully pushed through that regulatory process last summer that the corporate parent felt comfortable enough to reallocate investment dollars to the US. So for 9 months no new projects were approved for the US. The ITC expires at the end of this year, so we will not begin any new projects in the US until the next policy is passed. So renewable energy development continues to be dissaray despite the public lip service to green development. Does it matter? Yes, it does to the farmer and rancher who hoped to supplement their agricultural business with royalties on windfarms. It matters to the construction companies that build these windfarms. It matters to the man studying to become a wind technician and make a living wage job in rural America. It matters to the US staff coordinating the projects and delivering the green power to the grid. In the meantime, the practical buraucratic obstacles remain in place. The transmission grid can't handle it, the govt agencies enact punitive policies towards renewable power because they can't manage it like traditional power sources (imagine that - the wind doesn't blow 100% of the time at the same speed). Democratically controlled states renege on tax credits to support green power and corporations which bought tax credits find the rules changed so that they can't use those credits, suffer public humiliation for not paying taxes, and won't buy our tax credits again. The public at large buys the 30 second sound bite and doesn't look at the big picture. Company X didn't pay taxes in Oregon....and fails to see that they bought tax credits for wind development in the state that allowed several farmers to keep their land, bring in great construction and operations jobs, royalties to the tax base, etc.
As long as Obama sees business as the enemy, jobs creation will sputter.
There is an end to the game. Now that 50% of all filers do not pay taxes, the well is going to get dry pretty quickly. The majority has no problem inflicting more taxes on the minority and declaring them "rich", so selfish for hoping to keep some of their earnings. Marginal tax rates are getting very high. Instead of redistributing wealth, you are getting less wealth creation and a smaller pie to share.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 09:36am PT
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With renewed emphasis on Air Combat Maneuvering (ACM) training brought on with the establishment of the Navy Fighter Weapons School (TOPGUN) in 1968, the availability of A-4 Skyhawks in both the Instrument RAGs and Composite Squadrons at the "master jet bases" presented a ready resource of the nimble Skyhawks that had become the TOPGUN preferred surrogate for the MiG-17. At the time, the F-4 Phantom was just beginning to be exploited to its full potential as a fighter and had not performed as well as expected against the smaller North Vietnamese MiG-17 and MiG-21 opponents. TOPGUN introduced the notion of dissimilar air combat training (DACT) using the A-4E in the stripped "Mongoose" configuration with fixed slats.
The small size of the Skyhawk and superb low speed handling in the hands of a well trained aviator made it ideal to teach fleet aviators the finer points of DACT. The squadrons eventually began to display vivid threat type paint schemes signifying their transition into the primary role of Adversary training. To better perform the Adversary role, single-seat A-4E and F models were introduced into the role, but the ultimate adversary Skyhawk was the "Super Fox," which was equipped with the uprated J52-P-408 engine (11,200 lbs of thrust) similar to the configuration used by the Blue Angels.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 09:44am PT
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Good catch Chief! Excellent technical information.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 09:53am PT
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"When air combat started over North Vietnam in 1965, Sidewinder was the standard short range missile carried by the US Navy on its F-4 Phantom and F-8 Crusader fighters and could be carried on the A-4 Skyhawk and on the A-7 Corsair for self-defense." reference Wikipedia
While the A-4 could carry sidewinder air to air missiles, they were primarily for defensive use in Vietnam.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Jul 23, 2010 - 11:11am PT
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Ricky,
Coz, because of the depth and breadth of his vertical environment experience and expertise, has trained many special ops troops, and he still knows many of them personally.
In the fall of 2002, when the Iraq war was still being publicly debated by the politicos and the press, Coz was privately saying we were going to war, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. This was based on the number of special ops people he knew who were already headed that way and the stuff they were taking with them, many months before Bush said he would make a decision.
I thought he was a bit whacked at the time but it turns out he was spot on.
I'll take Scott's "ear to the ground" sense of what's happening in the military over the homogenized "all the news they want to feed you" daily national news feed any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
D
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 23, 2010 - 11:56am PT
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Holy sh#t, the post of the year right here: Daniel Eubank just upthread:
"Once upon a time the government had a vast scrap yard in the middle of
A desert. Congress said, "someone may steal from it at night.." So they
created a night watchman position and hired a person for the job..
Then Congress said, "How does the watchman do his job without
instruction?" So they created a planning department and hired two
people, one person to write the instructions, and one person to do time
studies.
Then Congress said, "How will we know the night watchman is doing
The tasks correctly?" So they created a Quality Control department and
hired two people. One to do the studies and one to write the reports.
Then Congress said, "How are these people going to get paid?" So
They created the following positions, a time keeper, and a payroll
officer, then hired two people.
Then Congress said, "Who will be accountable for all of these
people?" So they created an administrative section and hired three
people, an Administrative Officer, Assistant Administrative Officer, and a
Legal Secretary.
Then Congress said, "We have had this command in operation for one
Year and we are $18,000 over budget, we must cutback overall cost."
So they laid off the night watchman.
NOW slowly.
Let it sink in.
Quietly, we go like sheep to slaughter.
Does anybody remember the reason given for the establishment of the
DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY .... During the Carter Administration ?
Anybody?
Anything?
No?
Didn't think so!
Bottom line. We've spent several hundred billion dollars in support of
An agency ... the reason for which not one person who reads this can
remember!
Ready?? It was very simple ... and, at the time, everybody thought it
Very appropriate.
The Department of Energy was instituted on 8-04-1977. TO LESSEN OUR
DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL.
Hey, pretty efficient, huh???
AND, NOW, IT'S 2010 -- 33 YEARS LATER -- AND THE BUDGET FOR THIS
"NECESSARY" DEPARTMENT IS AT $24.2 BILLION A YEAR.
THEY HAVE 16,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES AND APPROXIMATELY 100,000 CONTRACT EMPLOYEES; AND, LOOK AT THE JOB THEY HAVE DONE!
THIS IS WHERE YOU SLAP YOUR FOREHEAD AND SAY, "WHAT WAS I THINKING?"
....... "
I will add that there is a lot of departments that already had employees that were moved into the Dept of Energy, some are critical (they have the nightw#tchman so to speak) so I don't think that is a fair statement. Yet as noted they are bloated and overpaid beyond question.
I'll repeat myself Dr F: Both the Republicans and the Democrats are spending this country into hell.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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Jul 23, 2010 - 12:02pm PT
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Dr. F, if you think it's just the repubs and not also the dems, you are mistaken.
From the radicallly right wing New York Times
An exceprt...
"In 1999, Bill Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, a bank deregulation bill that swept away a Depression-era law known as Glass-Steagall. The new law had such a chorus of bipartisan support that it passed the Senate 90-8. One of the few who raised a cry against it was Byron Dorgan. “I think we will look back in 10 years’ time and say we should not have done this, but we did because we forgot the lessons of the past,” said Dorgan, a populist North Dakota Democratic senator, “and that that which is true in the 1930s is true in 2010.” Today, a few years earlier than he predicted, Dorgan looks prescient. The current financial crisis is frequently called the worst since the Great Depression. And Gramm-Leach-Bliley is often cited as a cause, even by some of its onetime supporters."
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
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Jul 23, 2010 - 12:07pm PT
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Dr. F, if you think it's just the repubs and not also the dems, you are mistaken.
EXACTLY!
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apogee
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 12:12pm PT
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Here's a little quicky on defense spending for 2009-10...yeah, it's Wiki, and Repugs are sure to invalidate it as such (I'll check Conservapedia later), but it's a start:
Budget for 2010
For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of Defense rose to $533.8 billion. Adding spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.8 billion.[1][2]
When the budget was signed into law on October 28, 2009, the final size of the Department of Defense's budget was $680 billion, $16 billion more than President Obama had requested.[3][4] An additional $33 billion supplemental bill to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was expected to pass in the spring of 2010, but has been delayed by the House of Representatives after passing the Senate.[5][6] Defense-related expenditures outside of the Department of Defense constitute between $216 billion and $361 billion in additional spending, bringing the total for defense spending to between $880 billion and $1.03 trillion in fiscal year 2010.[7]
The federally budgeted (see below) military expenditure of the United States Department of Defense for fiscal year 2010, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, is[10]:
Components↓ Funding↓ Change, 2009 to 2010↓
Operations and maintenance $283.3 billion +4.2%
Military Personnel $154.2 billion +5.0%
Procurement $140.1 billion −1.8%
Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation $79.1 billion +1.3%
Military Construction $23.9 billion +19.0%
Family Housing $3.1 billion −20.2%
Total Spending $685.1 billion +3.0%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States
It would be pretty hard to call any of that a 'decrease in spending', but if you're a chickenhawk Repug, I'm sure it doesn't feel like enough.
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BillO
Trad climber
Yachats, OR
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Jul 23, 2010 - 12:22pm PT
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
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While debt is a huge problem, massive unemployment and stagnation is a much larger problem in the short term. Yet, the obsession these days is all about the debt.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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apogee
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:28pm PT
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"We are now closer to a depression than ever."
We're not in a great place, that's for sure, but we were much closer to a true Depression as Shrub left office.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:34pm PT
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'm pretty sure my friend John McCain flew the SkyHawk.
Is that one of the many he crashed?
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 01:34pm PT
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apogee
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:39pm PT
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Is that a CBO graph, Eubank?
Aside from your obvious intent to point out the deficit under Obama, you might want to notice how the last 3 Repug POTUS's, including your beloved Ray-gun, resulted in nothing but deficits.
What happened to the GOP's 'party of fiscal responsibility'?
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 01:46pm PT
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War Funding Nears Completion
On Thursday, the Senate stripped out domestic spending programs previously attached to the $59 billion emergency war supplemental spending bill and returned the approved measure to the House for final decision. The Senate $58.8 billion version of H.R. 4899 contains funding for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, veterans programs and disaster relief. Dropped from the bill are $23 billion of House add-ons in domestic, non-defense spending (Teacher's Salaries).
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
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Aside from your obvious intent to point out the deficit under Obama, you might want to notice how the last 3 Repug POTUS's, including your beloved Ray-gun, resulted in nothing but deficits.
And the deficit shrank when 5 of the last 6 dems were in office.
Too early to say what will happen with the 6th dem--Obama.
So why is Eubank so down on Dems then?
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apogee
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 01:55pm PT
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"So why is Eubank so down on Dems then? "
I don't think you're gonna get an answer from Eubank- like any true Repug, when he's confronted by an 'inconvenient truth', he turns up the volume on Glenn Beck a little louder.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 23, 2010 - 02:18pm PT
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From factcheck.org
McCain did lose two Navy aircraft while piloting them. One crash was found to be be McCain's fault, the other due to an engine failure of undetermined cause.. A third was destroyed on the deck of the carrier USS Forrestal when a missile fired accidentally from another plane hit either the plane next to McCain's or, less likely, his own aircraft, triggering a disastrous fire that killed 134 sailors and nearly killed McCain. A fourth plane was lost when he was shot down over North Vietnam on a bombing mission over Hanoi.
A fifth alleged "crash" turns out to be a misinterpretation of a flight accident that did not result in the loss of the aircraft. McCain admitted to causing that incident through "daredevil clowning" but returned safely.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 02:30pm PT
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Fattrad is always wrong.
Just ask McCain, Pombo and Poizner.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 23, 2010 - 02:46pm PT
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Life would be so simple if somebody was always wrong.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2010 - 02:47pm PT
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The National Debt as a percent of gross domestic product does not tell the whole story.
During Jimmy Carter's last year in office (1980), inflation averaged 12.5%, compared to 4.4% during Reagan's last year in office (1988). Over those eight years, the unemployment rate declined from 7.5% to 5.3%.
During Reagan's presidency, federal income tax rates were lowered significantly with the signing of the bipartisan Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981. The top tier tax bracket rates were lowered from 70% to 28%.
Sixteen million new jobs were created, while inflation significantly decreased.
The increase in the federal deficit during that administration is partially attributable to the military buildup during the end of the 'Cold War Era', but contributed directly to the fall of the Wall in East Berlin, and a new direction for the Soviets.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 02:49pm PT
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"The National Debt as a percent of gross domestic product does not tell the whole story."
Then why did you post that graph that prceisely makes that point?
Flip-flopper.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 02:49pm PT
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The National Debt as a percent of gross domestic product does not tell the whole story.
Okay, and I agree, but why did you post that graph then?
Oh I see, debt accumulated under Reagan is justifiable, debt accumulated under Obama is waste.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 02:50pm PT
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Meg's a joke. She doesn't know sh#t about governing, and isn't really interested in it either (see her voting record).
As I've said before, Poizner was at least a serious candidate.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 03:10pm PT
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Fatty, she has no experience in government.
That sh#t didn't work for Arnie. He had good counsel too.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 23, 2010 - 04:42pm PT
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Meg will be getting sound council from some very good friends of mine and I might get more involved. When I use the term, "the next chair of the Calif. GOP", thats a very good friend of mine that lives in Walnut Creek.
What makes you think that's any consolation to anyone?
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apogee
climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 09:17pm PT
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'No way Obama can win reelection'
Why not? Ray-gun did it with unemployment above 9 percent.
If fattrad bets on a candidate, always bet on their opponent. That way, it's a sure bet.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 24, 2010 - 09:38pm PT
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jul 25, 2010 - 11:41am PT
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It's always weird to me when tea partiers et al post up stuff like this. I worked with a former jet pilot who always chuckled when something like the blue angels came on before a big game and said, "every turn costs the government $6,753.22, every pass 22k...and that's in 1991 jet fuel prices!"
You aren't complaining about the deficit, right? Tom Paine is way more eloquent than I....
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 25, 2010 - 12:06pm PT
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 25, 2010 - 12:43pm PT
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not exactly aviation
ps
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 25, 2010 - 12:51pm PT
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 25, 2010 - 01:07pm PT
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you make a lot of assumptions...
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jul 25, 2010 - 03:15pm PT
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--the fallacy you've committed is called affirming the consequent. but whaever...I don't like any politicians, voted Bob Barr FWIW...just saying you can't rly be TEA and 'pro-spending' (.mil or otherwise) unless you are hypocritical...
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 25, 2010 - 03:51pm PT
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Ron, would you please provide your source for your claim that the Federal
government sold FEMA trailers to a corporation for a hundred dollars, and
then bought the same ones back for a thousand dollars in order to be sent
to Haiti?
I have been searching for any information on this using multiple search
engines.
I am also searching FEMA's actual website, and cannot find anything on this.
In fact, I am finding the opposite.
This, from an Associated Press link:
The U.S. Agencyfor International Development, which is coordinating Americanassistance in Haiti, has expressed no interest in sending the trailersto the earthquake-stricken country. FEMA spokesman Clark Stevensdeclined to comment.
Haitian Culture and Communications MinisterMarie Laurence Jocelyn Lassegue said Thursday she had not heard of theproposal but added: "I don't think we would use them. I don't think wewould accept them."
In a Jan. 15 letter to FEMA, Rep. BennieThompson, D-Miss., chairman of the House Committee on HomelandSecurity, said the trailers could be used as temporary shelter oremergency clinics.
"While I continue to believe that these unitsshould not be used for human habitation, I do believe that they couldbe of some benefit on a short-term, limited basis if the appropriatesafeguards are provided," he wrote.
For the recreational-vehicleand trailer industry, which lost thousands of jobs during therecession, the push to send the units to Haiti is motivated by morethan charity.
Bidding is under way in an online government-runauction to sell the trailers in large lots at bargain-basement prices --something the RV industry fears will reduce demand for new products.Some of the bids received so far work out to less than $500 for atrailer that would sell for about $20,000 new.
So, again Ron, from what credible source did you find your information?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 25, 2010 - 03:59pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 25, 2010 - 04:40pm PT
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You heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend.
And you believed it.
With NO attempt to verify second hand hearsay?
Just accept it as true.
And then pass it on as if it is verified fact.
In the hope that others will believe it who are reading this thread.
And any attempt that does NOT result in verifying your claim is just "bullshit".
So, we should all just believe what you say, because you said so.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 25, 2010 - 05:22pm PT
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LOL!!111666
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 25, 2010 - 05:25pm PT
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Oh, I don't know either why I would be "shocked" at you just throwing out some "information".
Maybe it was because I did not believe what you said? Could that be?
I guess I just like to know what I am being told is really the truth.
And so I like to check out myself stuff that sounds like it is not the truth.
Call it taking "personal responsibility", and not just passing along bullsh#t.
edit:
Opps, gotta remember to add a LOL, or a ROTF, or LMAO, to most everything I say.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2010 - 07:49am PT
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These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3, The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.
--- REMEMBER ---
IN NOVEMBER 2010, WE HAVE A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY
TO CLEAN OUT THE ENTIRE HOUSE AND ONE-THIRD OF THE SENATE!
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 09:48am PT
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And replace them with what? Right wingers who created the messes of the last 10 years?
Brilliant!
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
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Jul 26, 2010 - 10:18am PT
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Too much partisanship and not enough citizenship.
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lucaskrajnik
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jul 26, 2010 - 11:22am PT
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Eubank, sounds alot like atlas shrugged. :P
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 26, 2010 - 12:07pm PT
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//These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3, The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.
--- REMEMBER ---
IN NOVEMBER 2010, WE HAVE A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY
TO CLEAN OUT THE ENTIRE HOUSE AND ONE-THIRD OF THE SENATE!//
While mentally I'd already come to this conclusion a while ago, verbally I'm pretty done with this thread. As evidenced by Eubanks' last post, the man--like Fatty and all others of his ilk--clearly have nothing to say other than sound bites that have been proven wrong time and time again. It's like arguing with a stupid robot.
Good luck to the others, not that you'll need it. Your opponents on the right are clearly outwitted, clearly outgunned.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 26, 2010 - 12:10pm PT
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 26, 2010 - 12:25pm PT
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Fat Dad's rant, somewhat corrected.
1. You cannot legislate the rich into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of the middle class and poor.
2. What one rich person receives without working for, another middle class or poor person must work for without receiving.
3, The government cannot give to a rich person anything that the government does not first take from somebody else, probably someone in the middle class.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it, but taking from the middle class to benefit the rich is a start.
5. When the rich people get the idea that they do not have to work because the middle class and poor people are going to take care of them, is it any surprise that the poor people get the idea that it does no good to work, because a rich person is going to get what they work for?
I take it that Fat Dad also claims to be a good christian, although how his fantasy manifesto has anything to do with the values and behaviours of christianity is beyond me.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 12:27pm PT
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Mighty hiker, it is actually Eubank's rant posted on the previous page. FatDad was quoting it.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 12:32pm PT
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Here's one for the Repugs: "Feck the poor, it's all about me-me-me-me-me!
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 26, 2010 - 12:37pm PT
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and Patrick Henry rolls in his grave...
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 12:56pm PT
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Agreed, fattrad, and they also deserve to have a little unemployment help when the masters of the financial universe have so thoroughly destroyed the capitalist system that those same people can't find jobs in the wreckage of that economic disaster.
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lucaskrajnik
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jul 26, 2010 - 12:57pm PT
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Mighty Hiker, I'll respectfully disagree with your "correction".
I believe Eubanks "sentences" were referring to our government as the legislate, that have been forcing all of the taxes, rules, and regulations upon us. While he was referring the prosperous as the hard working middle class.
The poor do not have rights to the money that I/we the middle class have earned, because they need it.
If the "rich" are rich because of what their hard work has earned them, they also have a right to their money.
If the "rich/legislate" that have earned their money by a means of fraud and extortion they need be stopped.
apogee, you have the correct idea, "Repugs" or not.
The poor have just as much right to what they earn as do the rich and middle class.
edit*
If they would like unemployment insurance, they should be willingly asked as a business proposition.
If it weren’t a social program, but rather an independent business. I'm sure more people would be glad to put money aside in case of unemployment.
(this would prevent the lazy, from skating on this for extended periods of time)
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2010 - 01:01pm PT
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"As an American I am not so shocked that Obama was given
the Nobel Peace Prize w/out any accomplishments to his
name, because America gave him the White House based on the same
credentials."
~ Newt Gingrich ~
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 01:03pm PT
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Poor Eubank.
Fella has run out of ideas and is reduced to regurgitating sound bites from Newt Gingrich. Pathetic.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 26, 2010 - 01:05pm PT
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If you look at the distribution of wealth in the US, there's no doubt that over the last 30 years, there has been significant redistribution away from those in the middle toward those in the top 10%. Likewise, the real incomes of the middle classes haven't changed significantly.
Which proves that Republicanism works - for the rich. Even if it means the death by 1,000 cuts of the middle classes on which all healthy countries are founded, by whatever despicable techniques are needed.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 01:12pm PT
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Is Eubank a Repug-bot-droid? He reminds me of 'just passing through', or any other of many such polititard Repugs that have come our way over the years.
Edit: Does he look like this, by any chance?:
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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"I'm not sure, but I think many Repubs voted for the 99 week extension, the only question lately was how to pay for it."
fattrad, you only seem to pay attention to facts and events that fit your ideologic view of the world, buddy.
There were only like 3-4 Repubs who finally voted for that extension- Collins & Snowe (from the rapidly vanishing breed of rational Repubs), and a couple others. Everyone knows damn well that the Repug resistance to that bill had little/nothing to do with how to pay for it, and was more about remaining obstructionist to anything that the Democratic Congress & Obama puts forward, no matter how negatively it affects Americans.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 01:37pm PT
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"You're wrong, the Repubs didn't want the debt to grow. "
Well you know what, fattrad? The Repugs have lost all credibility on fiscal responsibility after three Repug POTUS's and their spending & record deficits. It is transparently clear that the opposition to that bill was solely based on the GOP's 'obstructionism at all costs' strategy, and has nothing to do with 'not wanting the debt to grow'.
You can bet your arse that if the Repugs were in control right now, and the bill in question was related to some (another) military spending boondoggle, the issue of 'not wanting the debt to grow' would never come up.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 01:47pm PT
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"Well, you're wrong."
Why? Because I tend to vote Democrat, and the title of this thread is the explanation?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 26, 2010 - 01:51pm PT
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 01:59pm PT
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"...but the past doesn't matter,"
So fattrad, let's just assume for a moment that Obama came into office on 1/20/09, and said, 'Gee, this whole financial system if completely fecked!', and implemented dramatic, drastic spending reductions in areas of greatest import: entitlement programs, military spending, etc. And let's say that HR never made it to the table in the first place, and extending unemployment benefits was as much as priority as conservationism was for Cheney.
And since we all know that the monstrous Shrub-deficit was never going to be fixed by simply cutting spending, he increased taxes in several key areas.
All in an effort to immediately and directly address the monstrous economic disaster that was handed to him, and all in an effort to be truly fiscally responsible.
Do you really think the Repugs would have been happy with such a strategy? More importantly do you really think the citizens would have been happy with such a strategy?
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
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What have we learned in 2,065 years?
"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."
 Cicero - 55 BC
Evidently, nothing.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 02:40pm PT
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2010 - 02:45pm PT
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Gotta Love Ted!
Ted Nugent, rock star and avid bow hunter from Michigan , was being interviewed by a liberal journalist, an animal rights activist. The discussion came around to deer hunting.
The journalist asked, 'What do you think is the last thought in the head of a deer before you shoot him? Is it, 'Are you my friend?' or is it 'Are you the one who killed my brother?
Nugent replied, 'Deer aren't capable of that kind of thinking. All they care about is, what am I going to eat next, who am I going to screw next, and can I run fast enough to get away. They are very much like the Democrats in Congress.'
The interview ended........
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 02:53pm PT
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So why the hell is this so important to the Repugs now, fattrad? Nothing they have done over the last 30 years supports this.
And why in the world should anyone believe that this is their underlying rationale for opposing any kind of program or bill that has cost associated with it?
The Repugs have no credibility on this issue, fattrad.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 03:01pm PT
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"The Repubs would be very happy with your first paragraph,"
fattrad, don't you think that it would place the Repugs in an incredibly poor light if, after 8 years of deficit building by their POTUS & Congress, that the Dems came in and implemented the strategies necessary to knock that deficit back down and 'right the ship'?
Besides casting them in a poor light, don't you think that it is pathetically irresponsible and childish for one group of people to expect the others to clean up the mess made by another, and do it over and over again?
Instead of expecting the next party to clean up your mess, how about if the Repugs get their feckin' act together and return to some level of responsibility and principle?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 26, 2010 - 03:06pm PT
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Perhaps they can't, because the tea baggers have introduced a further element of extremism and rhetorical nonsense into the right wing?
It is a brilliant strategy on the part of the Democrats - wait until the Republicans, scared of their own shadows, nominate the most extreme tea bag ranters, who are virtually unelectable.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 03:17pm PT
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"Plenty of use were not happy about the free spending ways during the Bush admin."
Yeah, well most of you who were 'not happy about it' were all-too-happy and ready to vote for the same POTUS and Congress who kept doing the same sh#t, and remained quiet as they did so.
No, it's not much fun to clean up other people's messes, fattrad. The fact that the GOP keeps feckin' up the economy with deficit spending, and getting us into unending world conflicts, then handing it over to the Dems to clean up and complain all the way about how they do it...
You guys are unbelievably hypocritical and childish, I tell ya.
And Eubank, why don't you go dress up as a deer and hang out on Ted's compound for a while?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 26, 2010 - 03:19pm PT
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 26, 2010 - 03:48pm PT
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 03:51pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 26, 2010 - 03:53pm PT
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Jul 26, 2010 - 03:57pm PT
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Sorry, but you Liberal traitors need to be rounded you and contained from hurting yourselves or our country.
We just need to save the United States from the destruction you're trying to bring about with Obama's help.
Of course Liberals don't know they're nuts. A given.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 03:58pm PT
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yay! cchopper's here!
Now we can see some really stooopid posts!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 26, 2010 - 03:59pm PT
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:00pm PT
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Mommy, why is that silly man kissing a camel's azz?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:01pm PT
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:02pm PT
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MH, that's not a very nice thing to say about a Saudi Prince.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:03pm PT
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lucaskrajnik
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:11pm PT
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locker gave a perfect example of Eubanks cartoon.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:19pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:20pm PT
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2010 - 04:20pm PT
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:25pm PT
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:25pm PT
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:29pm PT
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arguing with an idiot makes you his equal.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:30pm PT
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Taunting an idiot makes you incompassionate.
Does that make me a Repug?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:32pm PT
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:45pm PT
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Way upthread Crimpie said:
But we don't have photos of fighter jets on the other thread.
So let's fix that...
Norton your endless stream of insults is getting boring, and "Mommy" has potty mouth. Nice.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:53pm PT
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Thanks! Exactly the intent.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jul 26, 2010 - 04:58pm PT
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Your intent is to be boring? Or you just like moms who use the F word with their kids?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 26, 2010 - 05:27pm PT
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1) Yes.
2) Lots of children read this forum, see many other threads.
3) Tip: Ignore posts from people you don't care for.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 26, 2010 - 07:35pm PT
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I have not meet Claude, but appreciate all of the work that the VA does for our Veterans.
Isn't the VA kinda like socialized health care? ('fraid so...)
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2010 - 07:28am PT
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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 27, 2010 - 12:58pm PT
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Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.
Thomas Jefferson
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 27, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
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I'm going to have the overseer whip your ass and sell your children if you don't get to work!
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apogee
climber
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Jul 27, 2010 - 01:07pm PT
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apogee
climber
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Jul 27, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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Oooo, a menage a trois, with fattrad in the middle!
Post up the pics!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 27, 2010 - 01:32pm PT
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We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.
Dwight D. Eisenhower
There are a couple of interesting unspoken aspects to the the story below. One is that, out of hundreds and hundreds of billions spent on Iraq, only 10 billion went to reconstruction and we can't account for much of it. So much for hearts and minds. Even less spent in Afghanistan. How scandalous is it that the military still doesn't practice even the most minimal financial accountability, even after admitting not knowing where 2.3 trillion dollars went (announced the day before 9-11-2001) That's 8000 a person in the country? why Doesn't the GOP (or the DEMs) care where military money goes?
From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-10774002 7/27/2010.
US 'fails to account' for Iraq reconstruction billions
(BBC NEWS July 27th, 2010)
By Gabriel GatehouseBBC News, Baghdad
Billions have gone to rebuild Iraq but much of the money is impossible to trace, says a US audit
A US federal watchdog has criticised the US military for failing to account properly for billions of dollars it received to help rebuild Iraq.
The Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction says the US Department of Defence is unable to account properly for 96% of the money.
Out of just over $9bn (£5.8bn), $8.7bn is unaccounted for, the inspector says.
The US military said the funds were not necessarily missing, but that spending records might have been archived.
In a response attached to the report, it said attempting to account for the money might require "significant archival retrieval efforts".
Reconstruction money
Much of the money came from the sale of Iraqi oil and gas.
Some frozen Saddam Hussein-era assets were also sold off.
The funds in question were administered by the US Department of Defence between 2004 and 2007, and were earmarked for reconstruction projects.
But, the report says, a lack of proper accounting makes it impossible to say exactly what happened to most of the money.
This is not the first time that allegations of missing billions have surfaced in relation to the US-led invasion of Iraq and its aftermath.
No-one from the Iraqi government was immediately available for comment.
an old one but related.... Fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice....don't be fooled again
LOS ANGELES, Jan. 29, 2002
The War On Waste
Defense Department Cannot Account For 25% Of Funds – $2.3 Trillion
(CBS) On Sept. 10, (THAT'S 2001-SAM The day before 9/11) Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld declared war. Not on foreign terrorists, "the adversary's closer to home. It's the Pentagon bureaucracy," he said.
He said money wasted by the military poses a serious threat.
"In fact, it could be said it's a matter of life and death," he said.
Rumsfeld promised change but the next day ˆ Sept. 11-- the world changed and in the rush to fund the war on terrorism, the war on waste seems to have been forgotten.
Just last week President Bush announced, "my 2003 budget calls for more than $48 billion in new defense spending."
More money for the Pentagon, CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports, while its own auditors admit the military cannot account for 25 percent of what it spends.
"According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted.
$2.3 trillion – that's $8,000 for every man, woman and child in America. To understand how the Pentagon can lose track of trillions, consider the case of one military accountant who tried to find out what happened to a mere $300 million.
"We know it's gone. But we don't know what they spent it on," said Jim Minnery, Defense Finance and Accounting Service.
Minnery, a former Marine turned whistle-blower, is risking his job by speaking out for the first time about the millions he noticed were missing from one defense agency's balance sheets. Minnery tried to follow the money trail, even crisscrossing the country looking for records.
"The director looked at me and said 'Why do you care about this stuff?' It took me aback, you know? My supervisor asking me why I care about doing a good job," said Minnery.
He was reassigned and says officials then covered up the problem by just writing it off.
"They have to cover it up," he said. "That's where the corruption comes in. They have to cover up the fact that they can't do the job."
The Pentagon's Inspector General "partially substantiated" several of Minnery's allegations but could not prove officials tried "to manipulate the financial statements."
Twenty years ago, Department of Defense Analyst Franklin C. Spinney made headlines exposing what he calls the "accounting games." He's still there, and although he does not speak for the Pentagon, he believes the problem has gotten worse.
"Those numbers are pie in the sky. The books are cooked routinely year after year," he said.
Another critic of Pentagon waste, Retired Vice Admiral Jack Shanahan, commanded the Navy's 2nd Fleet the first time Donald Rumsfeld served as Defense Secretary, in 1976.
In his opinion, "With good financial oversight we could find $48 billion in loose change in that building, without having to hit the taxpayers."
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Jul 27, 2010 - 01:35pm PT
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Dirtbag - inferring you would enjoy owning and whipping slaves to get more
work done reveals how desperately you need an intervention. "
"He's 5150. Approach with caution."
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 27, 2010 - 01:38pm PT
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The US military said the funds were not necessarily missing, but that spending records might have been archived.
Yeah, I'm gonna tell the IRS that the next time I'm audited.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2010 - 02:02pm PT
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My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson
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apogee
climber
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Jul 27, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Jul 27, 2010 - 02:23pm PT
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"The punishment which the wise suffer who refuse to take part in the government, is to live under the government of worse men."
Plato
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Jul 27, 2010 - 02:23pm PT
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"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Jul 27, 2010 - 02:23pm PT
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That'd be up the butt, Bob.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2010 - 02:44pm PT
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Hope you enjoyed it WandaFuca.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2010 - 04:32pm PT
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It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes.
A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson
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apogee
climber
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Jul 27, 2010 - 04:38pm PT
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 27, 2010 - 04:46pm PT
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Eubanks, you are a delusion dupe for all the evil in this country
Questions?
Why don't the Rpublicans ever pay for their debt
Yeah, no sh#t.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 27, 2010 - 05:04pm PT
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My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much Military and corporate power.
Karl Baba
Economic Meltdown in recent years = Corporate Abuse
Iraq and failed Afghan war = Influence of war for oil, military industrial complex
Killing and destruction have become indispensable for our economy. This must change
Peace
Karl
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 27, 2010 - 05:21pm PT
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I agree Dr. F. I'm done here.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 27, 2010 - 05:25pm PT
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Ditto.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2010 - 10:22pm PT
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A M F
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 28, 2010 - 05:38pm PT
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//This thread is lame
We should all move to the Wrong Republican thread
Its the same stuff, here and there, and I'm forgetting which post I put where.//
Dude, I said that probably a hundred posts ago. I just peeked in because I couldn't believe that anyone still had the endurance to put up with Fatty's and Eubank's BS. Do yourself a favor and just say 'no'.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2010 - 07:54am PT
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Enjoy your present income right now....retired or not ....it will all change January 1, 2011. Welcome to Obamacare and his promise of no tax increase...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New tax changes -
In just six months, the largest tax hikes in the history of America will take effect. They will hit families and small businesses in three great waves on January 1, 2011:
First Wave: Expiration of 2001 and 2003 Tax Relief
In 2001 and 2003, the GOP Congress enacted several tax cuts for investors, small business owners, and families.
These will all expire on January 1, 2011:
Personal income tax rates will rise. The top income tax rate will rise from 35 to 39.6 percent (this is also the rate at which two-thirds of small business profits are taxed). The lowest rate will rise from 10 to 15 percent. All the rates in between will also rise. Itemized deductions and personal exemptions will again phase out, which has the same mathematical effect as higher marginal tax rates. The full list of marginal rate hikes is below:
The 10% bracket rises to an expanded 15%
The 25% bracket rises to 28%
The 28% bracket rises to 31%
The 33% bracket rises to 36%
The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%
Higher taxes on marriage and family. The “marriage penalty” (narrower tax brackets for married couples) will return from the first dollar of income. The child tax credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500 per child. The standard deduction will no longer be doubled for married couples relative to the single level. The dependent care and adoption tax credits will be cut.
The return of the Death Tax. This year, there is no death tax. For those dying on or after January 1 2011, there is a 55 percent top death tax rate on estates over $1 million. A person leaving behind two homes and a retirement account could easily pass along a death tax bill to their loved ones.
Higher tax rates on savers and investors. The capital gains tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 20 percent in 2011. The dividends tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 39.6 percent in 2011. These rates will rise another 3.8 percent in 2013.
Second Wave: Obamacare
There are over twenty new or higher taxes in Obamacare. Several will first go into effect on January 1, 2011. They include:
The “Medicine Cabinet Tax”
Thanks to Obamacare, Americans will no longer be able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin).
The “Special Needs Kids Tax”
This provision of Obamacare imposes a cap on flexible spending accounts (FSAs) of $2500 (Currently, there is no federal government limit). There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can not be used to pay for this type of special needs education.
The HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike.
This provision of Obamacare increases the additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.
Third Wave:
The Alternative Minimum Tax and Employer Tax Hikes
When Americans prepare to file their tax returns in January of 2011, they’ll be in for a nasty surprise—the AMT won’t be held harmless, and many tax relief provisions will have expired.
The major items include:
The AMT will ensnare over 28 million families, up from 4 million last year. According to the left-leaning Tax Policy Center, Congress’ failure to index the AMT will lead to an explosion of AMT taxpaying families—rising from 4 million last
year to 28.5 million. These families will have to calculate their tax burdens twice, and pay taxes at the higher level. The AMT was created in 1969 to ensnare a handful of taxpayers.
Small business expensing will be slashed and 50% expensing will disappear.
Small businesses can normally expense (rather than slowly-deduct, or “depreciate”) equipment purchases up to $250,000. This will be cut all the way down to $25,000. Larger businesses can expense half of their purchases of equipment. In January of 2011, all of it will have to be “depreciated.”
Taxes will be raised on all types of businesses.
There are literally scores of tax hikes on business that will take place. The biggest is the loss of the “research and
experimentation tax credit,” but there are many, many others. Combining high marginal tax rates with the loss of this tax relief will cost jobs.
Tax Benefits for Education and Teaching Reduced.
The deduction for tuition and fees will not be available. Tax credits for education will be limited. Teachers will no longer be able to deduct classroom expenses. Coverdell Education Savings Accounts will be cut. Employer-provided educational assistance is curtailed. The student loan interest deduction will be disallowed for hundreds of thousands of families.
Charitable Contributions from IRAs no longer allowed.
Under current law, a retired person with an IRA can contribute up to $100,000 per year directly to a charity from their IRA. This contribution also counts toward an annual “required minimum distribution.” This ability will no longer be there.
PDF Version Read more: http://www.atr.org/six-months-untilbr-largest-tax-hikes-a5171##ixzz0sY8waPq1
Now your insurance is INCOME on your W2's......
One of the surprises we'll find come next year, is what follows - - a little "surprise" that 99% of us had no idea was included in the "new and improved" healthcare legislation . . .
Starting in 2011, (next year folks), your W-2 tax form sent by your employer will be increased to show the value of whatever health insurance you are given by the company. It does not matter if that's a private concern or governmental body of some sort. If you're retired? So what? Your gross will go up by the amount of insurance you get.
You will be required to pay taxes on a large sum of money that you have never seen. Take your tax form you just finished and see what $15,000 or $20,000 additional gross does to your tax debt. That's what you'll pay next year. For many, it also puts you into a new higher bracket so it's even worse.
This is how the government is going to buy insurance for the 15% who don't have insurance and it's only part of the tax increases.
Not believing this??? Here is a research of the summaries.....
On page 25 of 29: TITLE IX REVENUE PROVISIONS- SUBTITLE A: REVENUE OFFSET PROVISIONS-(sec. 9001,
as modified by sec. 10901) Sec.9002 "requires employers to include in the W-2 form of each employee the aggregate cost of applicable employer sponsored group health coverage that is excludable from the employees gross income."
Joan Pryde is the senior tax editor for the Kiplinger letters.
Go to Kiplingers and read about 13 tax changes that could affect you. Number 3 is what is above.
http://www.kiplinger.com/businessresource/forecast/archive/health-care-reform-tax-hikes-on-the-way.html
People have the right to know the truth because an election is coming in November.
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lucaskrajnik
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jul 29, 2010 - 11:35am PT
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......? I think they just ran off.
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
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Jul 29, 2010 - 12:35pm PT
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Like anyone can take seriously ANYTHING from Americans for Tax Reform.....
Involvement with Jack Abramoff
According to an investigative report from the Senate Indian Affairs Committee on the Jack Abramoff scandal, released in June 2006, ATR served as a "conduit" for funds that flowed from Abramoff's clients to finance surreptitiously grass-roots lobbying campaigns.[17] Records show that donations from the Choctaw and Kickapoo tribes to ATR were coordinated in part by Abramoff, and in some cases preceded meetings between the tribes and the White House.[17][18]
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 29, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
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The return of the Death Tax. This year, there is no death tax. For those dying on or after January 1 2011, there is a 55 percent top death tax rate on estates over $1 million. A person leaving behind two homes and a retirement account could easily pass along a death tax bill to their loved ones.
Bob Eubanks apparently is uncomfortable with facts. As I already explained MANY posts ago, the rephasing in of a lower estate tax rate was the result of EGGTRA, which went into effect in 2001. Not Obama's change, though Eubanks repeatedly attempts to blame the change on him.
Obama's lobbied to increase the credit to $3.5 m., but the right has refused to accept that, choosing instead to engage in some political theater and arguing instead that with the huge Republican created deficit, that it's unfair to tax the extremely wealthy.
BTW, when Reagan was in office, the credit was only $600K.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 29, 2010 - 02:00pm PT
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The fact remains that the tax increases go into effect in 2011. Thus far, the majority party in Congress has failed to do anything about it, and the President has spent much more political capital on other issues.
Connections to Abramoff money does not change those facts.
John
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 29, 2010 - 02:04pm PT
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The tax changes scheduled for this January will most certainly be a tax increase for a huge segment of the working population.
Many working people who will be hit by this increase never paid the high Clinton-era tax rates because they were too young to work then, or were making too little income then to pay taxes.
It will be a tax hike for them, as well as the rest of you.
Raising taxes in a recession is a stupid move, no matter who does it.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jul 29, 2010 - 02:07pm PT
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If Republicans are right why do they lie and misrepresent so much?
The 10% bracket rises to an expanded 15%
The 25% bracket rises to 28%
The 28% bracket rises to 31%
The 33% bracket rises to 36%
The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%
Obama has said over and over he only wants the rate on income above $250K to go up. Why misrepresent that unless you aren't confident in your position? When you lie you just come of as wrong on everything.
The only way Congress won't extend the other tax cuts is if the Republicans block it to try to score political points.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 29, 2010 - 02:10pm PT
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Why should anybody's tax rate go up?
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2010 - 02:17pm PT
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Additional taxes for only those who make over $250,000 a year is a cruel joke. See breakdown of the 2010 IRS Tax Brackets.
2010 IRS Tax Brackets
The below 2010 tax tables are the projected federal income tax brackets for 2010:
Tax Bracket Single Married Filing Jointly
10% Bracket $0 – $8,375 $0 – $16,750
15% Bracket $8,375 – $34,000 $16,750 – $68,000
25% Bracket $34,000 – $82,400 $68,000 – $137,300
28% Bracket $82,400 – $171,850 $137,300 – $209,250
33% Bracket $171,850 – $373,650 $209,250 – $373,650
35% Bracket $373,650+ $373,650+
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 29, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
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Until Government gets a handle on the runaway spending binge they're on, tax rates should not be raised. Ever.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 29, 2010 - 03:25pm PT
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The fact remains that the tax increases go into effect in 2011. Thus far, the majority party in Congress has failed to do anything about it, and the President has spent much more political capital on other issues.
That's weak John. It's arguments like that which infuriate people on the other side of the table since they come across as reactionary, not reasoned.
Eubanks is clearly blaming Obama for the increase, which he did not enact. As far as changing the existing law, Obama has thrown his weight behind the House version of the bill, but non-passage by the Senate has largely been the result of political posturing by the right, who would rather have the political capital of telling their base that they fought the good fight for no new taxes (even though it's hardly a new tax) rather than accepting a very reasonable number being put forth by the Dems. Again, that is clearly not the President's doing.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 29, 2010 - 05:19pm PT
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Fat Dad,
If my argument infuriates people on the other side, perhaps it's because their officeholders resemble my remarks. The President was perfectly willing to use the bully pulpit and twist arms to break log jams between the House and Senate on financial regulation and health care. I see neither tactic used on this issue.
The fact remains that inaction results in a tax increase next year for virtually every taxpayer. If the Democrats cared so much, they'd be expending the same energy blaming Republicans for that as they have blaming them for everything else.
John
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 29, 2010 - 08:08pm PT
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The fact remains that inaction results in a tax increase next year for virtually every taxpayer.
No. It's not a tax until it's actually due, so "virtually every American" will not be affected by it unless everyone of us is dying next year and all of our net estates are worth over $1 m. each. Even then, those with bypass or credit shelter trusts, etc., won't even be affected.
Also, it's the Repub senators who are holding up passage of the bill, not the Dems. Are you saying it's Obama's fault because he's not twisting their arms hard enough to get them to bend? Really?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 29, 2010 - 08:44pm PT
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Like we're gonna' live forever.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 30, 2010 - 12:10pm PT
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No. It's not a tax until it's actually due
no...it's not a tax until it's actually paid...
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2010 - 08:14am PT
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A federal judge blocked several critical provisions of Arizona's new immigration law from taking effect.The overall law will still take effect Thursday July 29th. Sections barred from being enforced include:
• Requiring a police officer to make a reasonable attempt to check the immigration status of those they have stopped;
• Forbidding police from releasing anyone they have arrested until that person's immigration status is determined;
• Making it a violation of Arizona law for anyone not a citizen to fail to carry documentation;
• Creating a new state crime for trying to secure work while not a legal resident;
• Allowing police to make warrantless arrests if there is a belief the person has committed an offense that allows them to be removed from the United States
I'm a legal American citizen and I must show my ID when:
1. Pulled over by the police.
2. Making purchases on my department store credit card.
3. When I show up for a doctor's appointment.
4. When filling out a credit card or loan application.
5. When applying for or renewing a driver's license or passport.
6. When applying for any kind of insurance.
7. When filling out college applications.
8. When donating blood.
9. When obtaining certain prescription drugs.
10. When making some debit purchases, especially if I'm out of state.
11. When collecting a boarding pass for airline or train travel.
I'm sure there are more instances, but the point is that we citizens of the USA are required to prove who we are nearly every day!
Why should people in this country illegally, be exempt!!!!!
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2010 - 09:11am PT
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Anyone who believes the current deficit is anything but a spending problem is not rooted in reality. Under Obama and his cohort Democrats, the annual deficit has tripled - from $500 billion under Bush to $1.5 trillion under Obama. Bush's highest deficits not coincidentally occurred with a Democrat Congress.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2010 - 08:29am PT
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The Democrats say YES WE CAN !!!
YES WE CAN - Appoint a known tax cheat to head the I.R.S.
YES WE CAN - Create largest tax increase in U.S. history
YES WE CAN - Create more new taxes
YES WE CAN - Create the largest federal deficit ever
YES WE CAN - Create the largest public debt ever
YES WE CAN - Be the only administration to not publish a budget
YES WE CAN - Preside over the largest number of home foreclosures ever
YES WE CAN - Appoint avowed Communists as White House czars
YES WE CAN - Blame everything that goes wrong on Bush
YES WE CAN - Apologize for America to tyrant leaders
YES WE CAN - Treat illegal aliens as political voting pawns to gin up votes
YES WE CAN - Claim that jobs have been "created or saved" (government jobs)
YES WE CAN - Sue a state for defending itself from foreign invaders
YES WE CAN - Defend illegal aliens against the Constitution of the U.S.
YES WE CAN - Invite the head of a foreign country to attack a U.S. state and applaud him
YES WE CAN - Create more wasteful spending than ever
YES WE CAN – Accept millions from unions and repay them with taxpayer funds (Stimulus)
YES WE CAN - Bankrupt the U.S.A.
YES WE CAN - Bow to world leaders
YES WE CAN - Increase government corruption
YES WE CAN - Increase the size of government 25%
YES WE CAN - Paralyze the private sector with fear of increased taxes and health care costs
YES WE CAN - Fail to recognize the scope of the environmental disaster in the Gulf
YES WE CAN - Yell racism when Arizona’s Governor enforces immigration laws
YES WE CAN - Send out the NAACP to call opponents racists
YES WE CAN - Convert unemployment to a long term welfare benefit
YES WE CAN - Say the individual mandate is both a tax and not a tax
YES WE CAN - Break the promise to close Guantanamo Bay
YES WE CAN - Create bipartisanship by dividing America
YES WE CAN - Expand welfare and government dependency
YES WE CAN - Claim transparency is corrupt dealing behind closed doors
YES WE CAN - Borrow and Spend more than ever in U.S. history
YES WE CAN - Mortgage America's future to Communist China
YES WE CAN - Prosecute Al Qaeda in New York City criminal courts
YES WE CAN - Refuse to name our enemy in the war on terror
YES WE CAN - Appoint a cabinet that has virtually no private sector experience
YES WE CAN - Nominate a Supreme Court justice that perjured herself in Senate hearings
YES WE CAN - Create millions of new "Green Jobs" (government jobs)
YES WE CAN - Ruin American health care
YES WE CAN - Increase America's energy costs
YES WE CAN - Fund ACORN to break election laws
YES WE CAN - Say we're not socialists while taking control of more and more industries via extortion
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2010 - 10:55am PT
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/borderpatrol.asp
LETTER FROM A RETIRED BORDER PATROL AGENT
This letter sent to Tennessee Senator Bill Frist from a retired
border patrol agent, and it has more common sense than all the bull
being spewed from the Senate, with the exception of a few sensible
representatives.
Dear Senator Frist:
There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about
illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan
and Honduran aliens.
#1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want US citizenship.
Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be
a US citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens
of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the
United States such as employment, medical care, instate tuition,
government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring.
Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at
home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class
Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence
without paying the price.
#2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens
are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their
families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single
residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country.
There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.
#3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home.
They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in
their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as
evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country
each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and
willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore
assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their
alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their
children.
#4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal
aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce
wages and benefits for lawful US residents.
#5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million
native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and
founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is
not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one
time or another.
#6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal
aliens are not immigrants by definition. The US accepts more lawful
immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.
#7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote." Hispanics
are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are
Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and
Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to
illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.
#8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848
Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico
allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the US.
During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the US from
Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the US to
operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and
applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught
that the US stole California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. If you
don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their
school children.
#9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better
life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of
those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a
valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow
those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third
World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born
Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump
want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is
wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?
#10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie.
There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American
housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who
would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.
#11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about
wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not
wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set
aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal
residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our
laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the
price? For about four decades American politicians have refused to
secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans.
These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American
society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will
be high. There have already been riots in the streets by illegal
aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician,
have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this
country and demanded the rights afforded to US citizens or to offend
those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be
steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning.
Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you
bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to
remain here? There will be a reckoning.
It will come in November of this year. We will not allow
America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.
David J. Stoddard
US Border Patrol (RET)
Hereford, Arizona
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gonzo chemist
climber
Crane Jackson's Fountain St. Theater
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Our two-party system is a bowl of sh#t looking at itself in the mirror.
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howlostami
Trad climber
Southern Tier, NY
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F*ck man, I didn't want to get dragged into this sh*t, it just gets me down.
Let's get this straight... You are pissed about the democrats overseeing the biggest tax increase in history, right? This is the discontinuation of the bush tax cuts...
Those tax cuts were bad policy, plain and simple.
Bush had already squandered the BUDGET SURPLUS passed to him by the democrats. The government was IN THE RED.
He then passed these cuts WITH NO EQUIVALENT SPENDING DECREASE.
He actually INCREASED SPENDING.
BUSH drove the deficit up, and added trillions to the national debt, all the while not delivering on the republican promise of a better economy when taxes were cut.
THESE TAX CUTS WERE BAD POLICY AND IRRESPONSIBLE GOVERNANCE. Let them lapse and take a good first step towards balancing the budget.
TAXES ARE STILL LOWER THAN THEY WERE UNDER REGAN.
The age of austerity will soon be upon us all thanks to both parties, and you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who is blameless.
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Bertrand
climber
California
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bump for balance
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2010 - 11:26am PT
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Word of the Day: Dhimmitude
Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-Muslim populations conquered through jihad. Specifically, it is the TAXING of non-Muslims in exchange for tolerating their presence AND as a coercive means of converting conquered remnants to Islam.
Obama Care is the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia Muslim diktat in the United States . Muslims are specifically exempted from the government mandate to purchase insurance, and also from the penalty tax for being uninsured. Islam considers insurance to be "gambling", "risk-taking" and "usury" and is thus banned. Muslims are specifically granted exemption based on this. How convenient. So I John Smith, as a Christian, will have crippling IRS liens placed against all of my assets, such as real estate, cattle, cars, account receivables, etc, and will face hard prison time because I refuse to buy insurance or pay the penalty tax. Meanwhile, Louis Farrakhan will have no such penalty and will have 100% of his health needs paid for by the de facto government insurance at our expense. Non-Muslims will be paying a tax to subsidize Muslims. Period. This is Dhimmitude.
Dhimmitude serves two purposes: it enriches the Muslim masters AND serves to drive conversions to Islam. In this case, the incentive to convert to Islam will be taken up by those in the inner-cities as well as the godless Generation X, Y and Z types who have no moral anchor or belief in God! If you don't believe in Christ to begin with, it is no problem whatsoever to sell Him for 30 pieces of silver. "Sure, I'll be a Muslim if it means free health insurance and no taxes. Where do I sign, brother?"
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
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Dr. F = Flaming Idiot
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2010 - 07:55am PT
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I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2010 - 08:48am PT
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More on the Sherrod story...
The tables turn quickly sometimes......
Andrew Breitbart is a media genius?
He proved it originally with his brilliant handling of the ACORN ‘hooker’ scandal which he skillfully manipulated so that the corrupt media was forced, against its will, to broadcast corruption in one of Obama’s most powerful political support groups. But Breitbart’s handing of that affair is nothing compared to his brilliant manipulation of the Shirley Sherrod ‘white farmer’ scandal.
It all began last Monday, July 22, 2010. As the country watched in horror, Breitbart released a snippet of a tape on his “Big Government” website which showed an obscure black female official of the Dept. of Agriculture laughing to a roomful of NAACP members about how she’d discriminated against a destitute white farmer and refused to give him the financial aid he desperately needed. As she smirked to the room, she’d sent him instead to a white lawyer – ‘one of his own kind’ – for help. The black woman was Shirley Sherrod – and almost immediately she became the center of a firestorm of controversy which exploded throughout the country. Within a day of the release of that infamous tape, the head of the Dept. of Agriculture, spurred on by Obama, demanded – and received – Sherrod’s resignation. Breitbart had won.
But then seemingly Breitbart’s actions began to explode in his face. As Sherrod screamed in protest, FOX News released the entire text of her speech last March to the NAACP. And there on tape Sherrod was shown supposedly repenting of her racism against a white farmer and instead championing his fight to win funds to keep his farm afloat. Within hours of that entire tape being revealed, the entire world turned against Andrew Breitbart. Conservatives throughout the country were enraged that he’d endangered their reputations by releasing a ‘doctored’ tape. Breitbart, they thundered, had dealt a fatal blow to the conservative media. I confess that I also was horrified at what I saw as the clumsiness and stupidity of Breitbart in ‘doctoring’ a tape to make a supposedly innocent woman look guilty. But now I discover I have been as guilty of haste to judgment of Breitbart as the Dept. of Agriculture was of Ms. Sherrod.
Only now am I realizing the real purpose for Breitbart’s release of that tape snippet. It was to allow him to cunningly trick the media into exposing one of the most shocking examples of corruption in the federal government – a little known legal case called “Pigford v. Glickman”.
April 23 2010 - http://deltafarmpress.com/legislative/pigford-glickman-update-0423/
CASE: http://lw.bna.com/lw/19981020/971978.htm
http://pajamasmedia.com/zombie/2010/07/27/pigford-v-glickman-86000-claims-from-39697-total-farmers/?singlepage=true
“In 1997, 400 African-American farmers sued the United States Department of Agriculture, alleging that they had been unfairly denied USDA loans due to racial discrimination during the period 1983 to 1997.” The case was entitled “Pigford v. Glickman” and in 1999, the black farmers won their case. The government agreed to pay each of them as much as $50,000 to settle their claims.
But then on February 23 of this year, something shocking happened in relation to that original judgment. In total silence, the USDA agreed to release more funds to “Pigford”. The amount was a staggering $1.25 billion. This was because the original number of plaintiffs – 400 black farmers – had now swollen in a class action suit to include a total of 86,000 black farmers throughout America.
There was only one teensy problem. The United States of America doesn’t have 86,000 black farmers. According to accurate and totally verified census data, the total number of black farmers throughout America is only 39,697. Oops.
Well, gosh – how on earth did 39,697 explode into 86,000 claims? And how did $50,000 explode into $1.25 billion? Well, folks, you’ll just have to ask the woman who not only spearheaded this case because of her position in 1997 at the “Rural Development Leadership Network” but whose family received the highest single payout (approximately $13 million) from that action – Shirley Sherrod. Oops again.
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/110/024/Is_There_More_to_Sherrods_Dismissal.html
Yes, folks. It appears that Ms. Sherrod had just unwittingly exposed herself as the perpetrator of one of the biggest fraud claims in the United States – a fraud enabled solely because she screamed racism at the government and cowed them into submission. And it gets even more interesting. Ms. Sherrod has also exposed the person who aided and abetted her in this race fraud. As it turns out, the original judgment of “Pigford v. Glickman” in 1999 only applied to a total of 16,000 black farmers. But in 2008, a junior Senator got a law passed to reopen the case and allow more black farmers to sue for funds. The Senator was Barack Obama.
Because this law was passed in dead silence and because the woman responsible for spearheading it was an obscure USDA official, American taxpayers did not realize that they had just been forced in the midst of a worldwide depression to pay out more than $1.25 billion to settle a race claim.
But Breitbart knew. And last Monday, July 22, 2010, he cleverly laid a trap which Sherrod – and Obama – stumbled headfirst into which has now resulted in the entire world discovering the existence of this corrupt financial judgment. Yes, folks – Breitbart is a genius.
As for Ms. Sherrod? Well, she’s discovered too late that her cry of ‘racism’ to the media which was intended to throw the spotlight on Breitbart has instead thrown that spotlight on herself – and her corruption. Sherrod has vanished from public view. Her ‘pigs’, it seems, have come home to roost. Oink!
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2010 - 01:28pm PT
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nature
climber
Whereverland....
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Aug 24, 2010 - 03:58pm PT
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the problem lies with American voters, who aren't smart enough to know what's good for them.
pretty much proven by two Dubya Em Dee terms (though he didn't actually win either one of them).
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 24, 2010 - 04:00pm PT
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Becuase they seem to follow what ever the repugs demand...
spineless...
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2010 - 08:04am PT
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The Washington Post babbled again today about Obama inheriting a huge deficit from Bush. Amazingly enough,..... a lot of people swallow this nonsense. So once more, a short civics lesson.
Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress, and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democrat Party. They controlled the budget process for FY 2008 and FY 2009, as well as FY 2010 and FY 2011. In that first year, they had to contend with George Bush, which caused them to compromise on spending, when Bush somewhat belatedly got tough on spending increases.
For FY 2009 though, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the FY 2009 budgets..
And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete FY 2009. Let's remember what the deficits looked like during that period:
If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the FY 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets. If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself.
In a nutshell, what Obama is saying is I inherited a deficit that I voted for and then I voted to expand that deficit four-fold since January 20th.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2010 - 02:24pm PT
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Parker Brother's New Board Game
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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God forbid this thread makes whoopie with the other thread and we have political babies. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
I wonder if we will every have an actual conversation.
I hate the shotgun approach of political debate.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Why is it that when the conservative's hero Dubya was in office there was a lot of funny satire and cartoons at his expense. But when they try to make fun of Obama is just comes off as mean spirited whining?
Obama would be EASY to make fun of, but I guess that would require a good sense of humor. Something right wingers seem to lack.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Daniel Eubank - good stuff. The Democrats are just a bunch of plunderers
who seek to live off the work of others.
Obama's Spread the Wealth statement confirms his true Liberal philosophy: Take what you can! Give nothing back.
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Truckee , CA
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Take what you can! Give nothing back.
That is what the greedy republicans are doing right now.
Goose...gander.....
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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I'm making a vow. No more responding to Eubanks threads. He's just a faceless tool incapable of contributing anything other than cut and paste bullshit from polititard right wing sources. Even taking into consideration the vast amount of drivel tossed out on this site by some, the man contributes NOTHING. He's just a pussy. Someone who starts controversy but isn't man enough to participate in the debate he creates. Pathetic.
As much as I dislike Fatty, at least he provides his own personal thoughts.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Fatty is a GOOD guy. He even sees through some of the Republican BS on the environment, evolution, etc. Some day he may even see that an even greater percentage of the Republican politicians are corrupt and self serving compared to the Dems.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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You're the Aunt Fanny's Pantry of evil. ;-)
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2010 - 08:25am PT
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Nice troll Fat Dad.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2011 - 03:23pm PT
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Did you know that if you sell your house after 2012 you will pay a 3.8% sales tax on it? That's $3,800 on a $100,000 home etc.
When did this happen? It's in the health care bill. Just thought you should know.
SALES TAX TO GO INTO EFFECT 2013 (Part of HC Bill) Why 2013? Could it be to come to light AFTER the 2012 Elections?
REAL ESTATE SALES TAX
So, this is "change you can believe in."
Under the new health care bill - did you know that all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% Sales Tax? The bulk of these new taxes don't kick in until 2013 If you sell your $400,000 home, there will be a $15,200 tax. This bill is set to screw the retiring generation who often downsize their homes. Does this stuff make your November and 2012 vote more important?
Oh, you weren't aware this was in the obamacare bill? Guess what, you aren't alone. There are more than a few members of Congress that aren't aware of it either. Click on this to verify.
http://www.gop.gov/blog/10/04/08/obamacare-flatlines-obamacare-taxes-home
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 18, 2011 - 03:25pm PT
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Trollbank is back!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 18, 2011 - 03:29pm PT
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So, bonky, what's your thoughts about Romney-care, or as some call it, Republican-care?
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corniss chopper
climber
not my real name
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Jan 18, 2011 - 03:40pm PT
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Recount Democrat beliefs one by one you'll get a mere random
catalog of insanity.
Lets consider what the Left believes.
Democrats believe in killing babies and old people
..but not murderers -- murderers will get a "time out" and a chance to speak at the graduation ceremony of a prominent liberal arts college.
Democrats believe in poverty programs. The more programs, the more poverty. And poor people vote for Democrats.
Being rich is no fair. Democrats believe in fairness and will force you to give up your money via higher taxes.
Democrats believe minorities are stupid and helpless (and no fair counting Asians as minorities).
Yes Democrats do believe in gun control, even though playground gunshot injuries are a proven vote-getter. Go figure.
http://www.federalistjournal.com/columns/orourke080700.htm
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 18, 2011 - 03:56pm PT
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Daniel, you are intentionally not telling the truth.
From your own work in seeking first the truth and details behind partisan motivated internet "rumors", you know full well that you have posted a falsehood.
please show your Snopes debunking along with your personal opinion:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp
More from URGAN LEGENDS:
Email contributed by Barbara M., July 8, 2010:
FW: New Real Estate Sales Tax
Under the new health care bill all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% Sales Tax. The bulk of these new taxes don’t kick in until 2013 (presumably after Obama’s re-election). You can thank Nancy, Harry and Barack and your local Democrat Congressman for this one. If you sell your $400,000 home, there will be a $15,200 tax. This bill is set to screw the retiring generation who often downsize their homes. Is this "Hope & Change" great or what? We can vote the bums out in November and demand that they eliminate the bill or at the very least defund it. Then in 2012 repeal it.
Analysis: While not completely false, this message does convey the erroneous impression that the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 imposes a 3.8% sales tax on all real estate transactions.
It doesn't. Here's the real scoop, based on the best analyses I can find:
Among the several new taxes and tax increases provided for in the final legislation (see Kiplinger for a concise summary) is a 3.8% tax on investment income for "high earners" only. Revenues from the tax, which goes into effect in 2013, will be dedicated to the Medicare Trust Fund.
"High earners" are defined as individuals whose gross income is $200,000 or more, or married couples filing jointly with a combined gross income of $250,000 or more.
Moreover, the tax doesn't apply to the first $250,000 of unearned income for individual taxpayers (or $500,000 for married couples filing jointly).
Given that most taxpayers make less than $200,000 per year and most home sales don't clear profits exceeding $200,000, the vast majority of Americans won't subject to this tax.
Share This Article
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 18, 2011 - 03:59pm PT
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So Mr. Eubank, you say you're from Woodbridge, Virginia. A town 30 km south of Washington, D.C. It seems pretty clear that it's a government town, both directly (government-military-industrial complex) and indirectly (commuters). What part of the government do you work for? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodbridge,_Virginia
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Truckee , CA
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Jan 18, 2011 - 04:20pm PT
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Hes a retired, bitter old man.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jan 18, 2011 - 05:43pm PT
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i voted for obama....i like some of the provisions of the healthcare law....but that 3.8% thing is BullSh#t,....i am currently building my own home which someday i hope to make lots of money selling it after a year of sweat equity while i keep my dayjob. and the government wants that 3.8% for Medical crap? BS i say. indefensible whether you love or hate obama....
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 18, 2011 - 05:54pm PT
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Hawkeye, did you read Norton's reply?
Norton Snopesed it, and it turn out to be BS.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jan 18, 2011 - 05:59pm PT
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ok, i got it.....wasnt very clear, applies to capital gains though....still BS...
Analysis: While not completely false, this message does convey the erroneous impression that the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 imposes a 3.8% sales tax on all real estate transactions.
It doesn't. Here's the real scoop, based on the best analyses I can find:
Among the several new taxes and tax increases provided for in the final legislation (see Kiplinger for a concise summary) is a 3.8% tax on investment income for "high earners" only. Revenues from the tax, which goes into effect in 2013, will be dedicated to the Medicare Trust Fund.
"High earners" are defined as individuals whose gross income is $200,000 or more, or married couples filing jointly with a combined gross income of $250,000 or more.
my wife and i are close to that high earner threshold....when will the entire tax code be rewritten so that it is simple and fair?
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2011 - 04:09pm PT
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The damage has already begun
By SALLY PIPES
Last Updated: 12:12 AM, January 19, 2011
Posted: 10:42 PM, January 18, 2011
Repeal of ObamaCare can't come soon enough -- as several damaging provisions are set to take effect this year.
For starters, it has effectively stopped the construction of physician-owned hospitals throughout the country.
Section 6001 of the health-care law required physician-owned hospitals to obtain their Medicare certification by the end of last year. Without it, they can't treat Medicare patients. And the facilities needed to be open to get that certification.
So construction halted at 45 hospitals as the New Year arrived. Work on countless others will never start, having been effectively banned by ObamaCare. This will limit competition in the health-care marketplace, driving up costs for patients.
Of course, patients may have trouble finding not just a hospital, but a doctor. A Physician's Foundation survey revealed that 40 percent of doctors plan to "drop out of patient care in the next one to three years." Sixty percent said ObamaCare will "compel them to close or significantly restrict their practices to certain categories of patients" -- typically those on Medicare or Medicaid.
Health reform will force many folks to give up their current insurance, too.
New rules requiring insurers in the individual and small-group markets to spend at least 80 percent of premium dollars on medical claims are intended to ensure that consumers get good value for their money. Instead, they'll push many plans out of existence. And with fewer competitors to keep them honest, the insurers that survive will have an easier time raising rates.
Other measures kicking in are petty -- but punitive. For example, people can no longer use tax-free Health Savings Accounts on basic over-the-counter drugs. Instead, they must pay for a doctor's appointment -- and then get a prescription for a pricier pharmacist-dispensed drug.
Consider the case of Claritin, an allergy medication that recently was approved for OTC use. A report from the National Center for Policy Analysis found that longtime users of the drug saw their daily costs fall 80 percent, from about $2.50 to just 50 cents. ObamaCare reverses this trend by encouraging people to opt for higher-priced prescription drugs when a cheaper OTC medication would work just as well.
And some measures are cut-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face punitive -- like the new $2.5 billion excise tax on pharmaceutical companies. Drug manufacturers won't simply swallow this new bill; they'll pass it onto consumers in the form of higher prices.
Thus, by (for example) increasing the cost of care for patients who need cholesterol-lowering statins or cancer-fighting meds, ObamaCare harms our health.
Public discontent with ObamaCare will only grow as its provisions begin to take effect this year. Congress should repeal it with all due speed.
Sally C. Pipes is president and CEO at the Pa cific Research Institute. Her latest book is "The Truth About ObamaCare."
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 19, 2011 - 04:22pm PT
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Lets consider what the Left and right believe.
Democrats believe in killing babies and old people
..but not murderers -- murderers will get a "time out" and a chance to speak at the graduation ceremony of a prominent liberal arts college.
Republicans believe in killing minorities and single mothers.
Democrats believe in poverty programs. The more programs, the more poverty. And poor people vote for Democrats.
Republicans believe in euthanasia of the poor.
Being rich is no fair. Democrats believe in fairness and will force you to give up your money via higher taxes.
Republicans believe the 0.1 percent who are super rich should control all wealth and tell everyone what to do because there were smart enough to amass that money. Like Paris Hilton.
Democrats believe minorities are stupid and helpless (and no fair counting Asians as minorities).
Republicans believe the same thing.
Yes Democrats do believe in gun control, even though playground gunshot injuries are a proven vote-getter. Go figure.
Republicans believe that if everyone owned a fully automatic assault rifle we'd all be safer.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:29pm PT
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Consider the case of Claritin, an allergy medication that recently was approved for OTC use. A report from the National Center for Policy Analysis found that longtime users of the drug saw their daily costs fall 80 percent, from about $2.50 to just 50 cents. ObamaCare reverses this trend by encouraging people to opt for higher-priced prescription drugs when a cheaper OTC medication would work just as well.
proof that danny ubank has OD'ed on drugs and lost any semblance of intelligence.....
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:29pm PT
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Repblicans believe in freedom of religion. You can believe in any protestant Christian religion you want.
Democrats believe in freedom of speech. You should be able to produce any twisted porn fetish videos you want.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:39pm PT
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Republicans also believe in freedom of speech. You should be able to produce any twisted GAY porn fetish videos you want.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:50pm PT
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Nationalization of Banks, the Auto Industry, and Health Care.
Please point out the location of the nationalized banks that have been produced?
Please point out national auto brands that have emerged?
Please point out the nationalized health care companies that have emerged?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 19, 2011 - 06:04pm PT
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The damage has already begun
By SALLY PIPES
Last Updated: 12:12 AM, January 19, 2011
Posted: 10:42 PM, January 18, 2011
Repeal of ObamaCare can't come soon enough -- as several damaging provisions are set to take effect this year.
For starters, it has effectively stopped the construction of physician-owned hospitals throughout the country.
Section 6001 of the health-care law required physician-owned hospitals to obtain their Medicare certification by the end of last year. Without it, they can't treat Medicare patients. And the facilities needed to be open to get that certification.
So construction halted at 45 hospitals as the New Year arrived. Work on countless others will never start, having been effectively banned by ObamaCare. This will limit competition in the health-care marketplace, driving up costs for patients.
SO>>>>>The GOP is all for getting rid of "fraud waste and abuse", and cutting spending......UNTIL it involves cutting wasted spending that goes to it's supporters!
Non-profit hospitals are the way to go, rather than skimming public tax money off the top to pay vendors that are less efficient, provide less service for their communities, force tax rates higher for no benefit.
And they are borrowing from the Chinese to do it!!
Gotta love those "borrow and spend" Repubs!
An American Hospital Association study from 2008 says that physician-owned hospitals “lessen patient access to emergency and trauma case;” “damage the financial health of full-service hospitals and lead to cutbacks in service;” “are not more efficient than full service community hospitals;” “use physician-owners to steer patients;” “cherry pick the most profitable patients;” and “provide limited or no emergency services.”
Meanwhile, one AHA fact sheet asserts that physician-owned orthopedic and surgical hospitals costs are 20 percent to 30 percent higher than average hospitals. Further, these hospitals just lead to higher profits for doctors, the AHA asserts.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 19, 2011 - 06:15pm PT
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Did you know that if you sell your house after 2012 you will pay a 3.8% sales tax on it? That's $3,800 on a $100,000 home etc.
When did this happen? It's in the health care bill. Just thought you should know.
SALES TAX TO GO INTO EFFECT 2013 (Part of HC Bill) Why 2013? Could it be to come to light AFTER the 2012 Elections?
REAL ESTATE SALES TAX
Do you really have to lie? Or do you have no clue about what you are posting? This would likely affect less than 5% of sellers, and only those who are the wealthiest.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 19, 2011 - 06:21pm PT
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I'm making a vow. No more responding to Eubanks threads. He's just a faceless tool incapable of contributing anything other than cut and paste bullshit from polititard right wing sources. Even taking into consideration the vast amount of drivel tossed out on this site by some, the man contributes NOTHING. He's just a pussy. Someone who starts controversy but isn't man enough to participate in the debate he creates. Pathetic.
As much as I dislike Fatty, at least he provides his own personal thoughts.
I'm taking the pledge
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dirt claud
Sport climber
san diego,ca
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Jan 19, 2011 - 06:25pm PT
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Has anyone here actually read the health care bill?
Here is a link to the PDF copy of the whole health care bill.
http://lc.org/media/9980/attachments/healthcare_overview_obama_072909.pdf
When you click on the link it first shows a PDF document summarizing the bill and it's key points. You can fact check by comparing what is stated, with the actual wording in the bill. which is accessed through a link on the first sheet of the PDF
If anyone out there is really interested in finding out what is in this thing I suggest you read it for yourself. I would rather read it myself and find out what is really going on then expecting left or right wing media to tell me.
That is a big part of the reason we are getting screwed from the right and left. They know from experience that most people don't take the time to do their own research. If there ever was a time in American history to do your own research it is now.
Perhaps we the people can discuss how we interpret this bill instead of having the government tell us. After all, we are the government. Remember?
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dirt claud
Sport climber
san diego,ca
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Jan 19, 2011 - 06:35pm PT
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And what the hell is going on in this country that we would welcome such a f*#ked up government from China who does things like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbDSOmTWU7U&feature=player_embedded#!
to its people. I think this should make us question our governments morals.
Perhaps the government does not speak for us anymore and has it's own agenda.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 09:13am PT
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27 of 50 States Now Challenging Constitutionality of Obamacare in Court
CNSNews| January 19, 2011 | Fred Lucas
(CNSNews.com) - More than half of the states—27 out of 50—are now challenging the constitutionality of Obamacare in federal court.
Six additional states--Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Ohio, Wisconsin and Wyoming--petitioned in federal court on Tuesday to join Florida’s law suit challenging the constitutionality of the health care law President Barack Obama signed last March. Nineteen states had previously joined with Florida in this suit, making the total number of states that are now a party to the suit 26.
Virginia, which has filed its own lawsuit against Obamacare, is the 27th state challenging the constitutionality of the health-care law in federal court. (A complete list of all 27 states appears at the bottom of this story.)
Florida’s suit challenges the constitutionality of Obamacare on two grounds, arguing that the law’s mandate that individuals must buy health insurance exceeds the legitimate power granted to the federal government to regulate interstate commerce under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution and also that the mandates the law imposes on state governments to expand their Medicaid programs violates the 10th Amendment, which limits the federal government to the powers delegated to it by the Constitution.
Virginia's lawsuit challenges the constitutionality of the individual mandate.
In December, Judge Henry Hudson of the U.S. District Court in Richmond, Va., sided with Virginia in that case, ruling that the Constitution does not give the federal government the power to force individuals to buy health insurance.
The Florida-led case is currently before U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson in Pensacola, Fla. Oral arguments were held on Dec. 16. Judge Vinson has not issued a ruling yet.
Ultimately, the cases will be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court.
“This lawsuit is about standing up for the rule of law and protecting the liberties guaranteed by our Constitution,” Kansas Atty. Gen. Derek Schmidt said in a statement. “Our federal government is designed to be a government of limited, enumerated powers, and we do not believe it has the power to order citizens into commerce so it can then regulate their conduct under authority of the Commerce Clause. Whatever the merits or demerits of health care reform, the ends cannot justify the unconstitutional means.”
Maine Atty. Gen. William Schneider said in statement, “The federal health care reform law mandates that all citizens to purchase health insurance or pay a costly penalty. This would be an unprecedented expansion of federal power, violating the 10th Amendment and the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution.”
“The federal government simply does not have the right to force someone to buy a product--be it health insurance or any other type of goods or services that an individual may or may not want – or face a penalty,” Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine said in a statement.
Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen said the “Constitution places limits on the power of the federal government, and these limits must be defended or they will disappear.
“Never before has the federal government required an individual to either buy government-approved insurance or pay a penalty,” Van Hollen continued. “And nowhere does the Constitution authorize Congress to regulate in this manner.”
The National Federation of Independent Businesses (NFIB), which advocates for small businesses, has also joined Florida’s suit against Obamacare.
“Having more than half of the nation’s states involved in this case along with NFIB, who represents more than 350,000 small businesses nationwide, sends a strong message to the courts that this law is detrimental to the entire nation and must be overturned,” said Karen Harned, executive director, NFIB Small Business Legal Center.
These are the 27 states now challenging Obamacare in federal: Florida, South Carolina, Nebraska, Texas, Utah, Louisiana, Alabama, Colorado, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Washington, Idaho, South Dakota, Indiana, North Dakota, Mississippi, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, Alaska, Ohio, Wisconsin, Maine, Iowa, Wyoming, Kansas and Virginia.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 09:26am PT
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The most damning quote concerning Obamacare last year from Democratic Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi:
"we have to pass the health care bill so that you can find out what is in it"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoE1R-xH5To
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 09:36am PT
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The House launched the repeal vote of Obamacare around 5:45 pm Wednesday January 19, 2011. And a few minutes later, the GOP voted to repeal the health law, 245 to 189. It must now go to the Senate.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 20, 2011 - 10:16am PT
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[photoid=132055
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 20, 2011 - 10:44am PT
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Why, YES, Dirt Claud
I HAVE read the healthcare bill.
All 2000 pages of it.
TWICE NOW
Since you asked if anyone has actually read it.
---
And Daniel has already proven that he will copy and past internet rumors and outright
lies WITHOUT first fact checking.
Thus, he has NO credibility.
SUCK ON IT
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shut up and pull
climber
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Jan 20, 2011 - 12:20pm PT
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FROM POWERLINE THIS MORNING:
Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee is getting a lot of attention for comparing Republicans to Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels on the floor of the House during the Obamacare debate. This, obviously, is what Democrats have in mind when they talk about the need for greater civility in political discourse, right?
Just kidding. What is significant, though, is not that Cohen's attack was uncivil, but rather that it was wrong. He says that Republicans are lying when "[t]hey say it's a government takeover of health care, a big lie, just like Goebbels. You say it enough, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie and eventually people believe it." But Obamacare is intended to lead to a government takeover of health care. How do we know this? Because Barack Obama says so. He wants a single payer system, a euphemism for socialized medicine, and expects his plan to drive private insurance companies out of business over a period of 15 to 20 years, thereby clearing the field for the federal government.
Obamacare confers plenty of power on the federal bureaucracy to render private health insurance unprofitable, and thereby drive private carriers out of the market. Who, then, will be left? The federal government, just as Obama says he wants.
If there is a Joseph Goebbels on the scene here, it is anyone who says that we should pay no attention to the man in front of the curtain who says his goal is single payer socialized medicine.
Watch this video to know the truth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk&feature=player_embedded#at=98
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 01:07pm PT
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dirtbag - wank, wank, wank...
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jan 20, 2011 - 03:22pm PT
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Eubank, you do realize that a thread like this has been tried before and failed mightily?
I never posted to the other one which had the word Republican where this one has the word Democrat: but since Dr F. pulled that thread and made it disappear when, as he said, he finally discovered that democrats were lying sacks of shits (or something along those lines), I will say that thread had something in the neighborhood of 39,000 POSTS on it. How is that "failed mightily?"
Sounds like even diehard libruls like Dr F. learned something, I suspect that he'd probably vote for George Bush at this point.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 21, 2011 - 11:55am PT
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Oh daniel, you've got me so hot!
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2011 - 07:06pm PT
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...and the calls for CIVILITY from onhigh went unheeded...
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Truckee , CA
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Jan 25, 2011 - 07:26pm PT
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Daniel,
You STARTED a politically charged thread on a forum originally intend for climbing topics, to illicit reaction.
( No don't try to pull the "I was just trying to start debate" crap. )
That right there is where the civility ended, as far as you are concerned.
What you are doing is in effect yelling FIRE! in a crowded theater and then wanting to prosecute the people running out of the theater for disorderly conduct.
You know how rough and tumble it is on this forum.
Can't stand the heat, get out of the furnace!
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2011 - 01:22pm PT
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2011 - 01:46pm PT
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A woman from Los Angeles, CA who was a tree hugger, a Democrat, and an anti-hunter, purchased a piece of timberland near Kingston, Idaho . There was a large tree on one of the highest points in the tract. She wanted a good view of the natural splendor of her land so she started to climb the big tree. As she neared the top she encountered a spotted owl that attacked her. In her haste to escape, the woman slid down the tree to the ground and got many splinters in her crotch.
In considerable pain, she hurried to Shoshone medical center ER to see a doctor. She told him she was an environmentalist, a democrat, and an anti-hunter and how she came to get all the splinters. The doctor listened to her story with great patience and then told her to go wait in the examining room and he would see if he could help her.
She sat and waited three hours before the doctor reappeared. The angry woman demanded, "What took you so long?"
He smiled and then told her, "Well, I had to get permits from the Environmental Protection Agency, the Forest Service, and the Bureau of Land Management before I could remove old-growth timber from a recreational area. I'm sorry, but due to Obama Care, they turned me down."
Sort of brings a tear to my eye.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2011 - 04:26pm PT
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Why did the chicken cross the road?
SARAH PALIN: The chicken crossed the road because, gosh-darn it, she's a maverick!
BARACK OBAMA: The chicken crossed the road because it was time for change! The chicken wanted change!
JOHN MC CAIN: My friends, that chicken crossed the road because she recognized the need to engage in cooperation and dialogue with all the chickens on the other side of the road.
HILLARY CLINTON: When I was First Lady, I personally helped that little chicken to cross the road. This experience makes me uniquely qualified to ensure right from Day One that every chicken in this country gets the chance it deserves to cross the road. But then, this really isn't about me.
GEORGE W. BUSH: We don't really care why the chicken crossed the road. We just want to know if the chicken is on our side of the road, or not. The chicken is either against us, or for us. There is no middle ground here.
DICK CHENEY: Where's my gun?
COLIN POWELL: Now to the left of the screen, you can clearly see
the satellite image of the chicken crossing the road.
BILL CLINTON: I did not cross the road with that chicken.
AL GORE: I invented the chicken.
JOHN KERRY: Although I voted to let the chicken cross the road, I
am now against it! It was the wrong road to cross, and I was misled about the chicken's intentions. I am not for it now, and will remain against it.
AL SHARPTON: Why are all the chickens white? We need some black chickens.
DR. PHIL: The problem we have here is that this chicken won't
realize that she must first deal with the problem on this side of the road before it goes after the problem on the other side of the road. What we need to do is help her realize how stupid she's acting by not taking on her current problems before adding new problems.
OPRAH: Well, I und! erstand that the chicken is having problems, which is why she wants to cross this road so badly. So instead of having the chicken learn from her mistakes and take falls, which is a part of life, I'm going to give this chicken a NEW CAR so that she can just drive across the road and not live her life like the rest of the chickens.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN: We have reason to believe there is a chicken, but we have not yet been allowed to have access to the other side of the road.
NANCY GRACE: That chicken crossed the road because she's guilty! You can see it in her eyes and the way she walks.
PAT BUCHANAN: To steal the job of a decent, hardworking American.
MARTHA STEWART: No one called me to warn me which way that chicken was going. I had a standing order at the Farmer's Market to sell my eggs when the price dropped to a certain level. No little bird gave me any insider information.
DR SEUSS: Did the chicken cross the road? Did she cross it with a
toad? Yes, the chicken crossed the road, but why it crossed, I've not been told.
ERNEST HEMINGWAY: To die in the rain, alone.
JERRY FALWELL: Because the chicken was gay! Can't you people see the plain truth? That's why ! they call it the 'other side.' Yes, my friends, That chicken is gay. A nd if you eat that chicken, you will become gay too. I say we boycott all chickens until we sort out this abomination that the Liberal media whitewashes with seemingly harmless phrases like 'the other side.' That chicken should not be crossing the road. It's as plain and as simple as that.
GRANDPA: In my day we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road. Somebody told us the chicken crossed the road, and that was good enough.
BARBARA WALTERS: Isn't that interesting? In a few moments, we will be listening to the chicken tell, for the first time, the heartwarming story of how it experienced a serious case of molting, and went on to accomplish its lifelong dream of crossing the road.
ARISTOTLE: It is the nature of chickens to cross the road.
JOHN LENNON: Imagine all the chickens in the world crossing roads together, in peace.
BILL GATES: I have just released eChicken2010, which will not only cross roads, but will lay eggs, file your important documents, and balance your checkbook. Internet Explorer is an integral part of eChicken2010. This new platform is much more stable and will never reboot.
ALBERT EINSTEIN: Did the chicken really cross the road, or did the
road move beneath the chicken?
COLONEL SANDERS: Did I miss one?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jan 27, 2011 - 05:00pm PT
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Joe Biden: "That chicken crossing the road is a big f*cking deal!"
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shut up and pull
climber
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Jan 27, 2011 - 05:09pm PT
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A GREAT IDEA FROM CALIFORNIA DEM CANDIDATE FOR SENATE MICKEY KAUS:
Shouldn’t Republicans hold hearings on the general threat of Putin-like corporatism—i.e., an insidious alliance between big government and favored corporate and labor interests? a) They could call GE CEO Jeffrey Immelt to testify and embarrass him about the myriad ways in which his slightly creepy role as CEO and presidential adviser might allow him to benefit his company and squash competitors; b) They could grill the various regulators who might be tempted to favor the auto manufacturers that the government bailed out (and which, in GM’s case, it still owns about a third of). Maybe some GM competitors would even be brave enough to testify. (Exhibit No. 23: Will GM and Chrysler claim all the remaining billions of “green” retooling loan money from Obama’s Department of Energy? Entrepreneurial startups need not apply?) c) They could question whether these bureaucrats and others are also doing favors for other Obama constituencies, like labor unions, or Google; d) They’d appear transpartisan–this is an issue where left and right populists unite. Do they love corporate-government alliances at Daily Kos? It’s also one of the legitimate worries at the heart of TeaPartyism. e) Hearings might help.
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shut up and pull
climber
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Jan 27, 2011 - 05:19pm PT
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OH SO TOLERANT!!! GIVE PEACE A CHANCE!!!
HEADLINE: Stoned to death with her lover: Horrific video of execution of girl, 19, killed by Afghan Taliban for running away from arranged marriage.
Horrific video footage has emerged of Taliban insurgents stoning a couple to death for alleged adultery in northern Afghanistan.
Hundreds of villagers can be seen on the video standing around as the woman, Siddqa, is buried up to her waist in a four foot hole in the ground.
Two mullahs pass sentence before the crowd begins to throw rocks at her head and body as she desperately tries to crawl free.
But the 19-year-old collapses to the ground, covered in blood - but miraculously still alive. At this point a Taliban fighter shoots her three times in the head with an AK-47The crowd can be heard shouting allahu akbar as she is killed.
Her lover, Khayyam, is then marched in front of the crowd with his hands tied behind his back. He is blindfolded with his own tunic and crouches down close to the ground as he tried to protect his body from the stones.
But he is battered to the floor by a barrage of rocks. He can be heard sobbing before eventually falling silent.
The stoning - the first to be documented on film since the Taliban were ousted from power - took place in the district of Dashte Archi, in Kunduz, last August.
Officials said that Siddqa had run away after being sold into an arranged marriage for $9,000 against her will. She ran away to be with Khayyam, who was already married and had two children, and the pair eloped to Pakistan.
But it is understand that they returned to their home village after being reassured by leaders that they would be unharmed.
It was a terrible mistake. They were dragged from their families' homes at 2am by Taliban fighters and then put before a kangaroo court before being executed.
The incident took place last October near the Afghan border with Tajikstan, a conservative district with a heavy extremist presence.
The area remains under Taliban control, but regional police have said those behind the stoning will be charged.
Police chief General Daoud Daoud told the BBC: 'Special police investigators will be sent there, we will find them and they will be brought to justice.' Most of the video has not been shown because it was too graphic.
Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid defended the stoning.
He told the BBC: 'Anyone who knows about Islam knows that stoning is in the Koran, and that it is Islamic law. 'There are people who call it inhuman - but in doing so they insult the Prophet. They want to bring foreign thinking to this country.'
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 27, 2011 - 05:37pm PT
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WARREN HARDING: I don't give a rat's ass why the chicken crossed the road.
HOMER SIMPSON: Mmmm, chicken.
LARGO: A timeless question, grist for a billion jokes.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 31, 2011 - 10:26am PT
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Let me get this straight . . . .
We're going to be "gifted" with a health care
plan we are forced to purchase and
fined if we don't,
Which purportedly covers at least
ten million more people,
without adding a single new doctor,
but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents,
written by a committee whose chairman
says he doesn't understand it,
passed by a Congress that didn't read it but
exempted themselves from it,
and signed by a President who smokes,
with funding administered by a treasury chief who
didn't pay his taxes,
for which we'll be taxed for four years before any
benefits take effect,
by a government which has
already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare,
all to be overseen by a surgeon general
who is obese,
and financed by a country that's broke!!!!!
'What the hell could
possibly go wrong?'
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 31, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
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From a show on Canadian TV- I Miss Bill Clinton
It doesn't matter what party you belong to-this is hilarious. From a show on Canadian TV, there was a black comedian who said he misses Bill Clinton.
"Yep, that's right-I miss Bill Clinton! He was the closest thing we ever got to having
a real black man as President.
Number 1 - He played the sax.
Number 2 - He smoked weed.
Number 3 - He had his way with ugly white women.
Even now? Look at him...his wife works, and he doesn't! And, he gets a check from the government every month. Manufacturers announced today that they will be stocking America 's shelves this week with " Clinton Soup," in honor of one of the nations' distinguished men. It consists primarily of a weenie in hot water.
Chrysler Corporation is adding a new car to its line to honor Bill Clinton. The Dodge Drafter will be built in Canada ..
When asked what he thought about foreign affairs, Clinton replied, "I don't know, I never had one."
The Clinton revised judicial oath: "I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know."
Clinton will be recorded in history as the only President to do Hanky Panky between the Bushes."
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 31, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2011 - 09:58am PT
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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That video deserves a poetic retort.
The Gods of the Copybook Headings
------------------------------------------------------------------------
AS I PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.
We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.
We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.
With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.
When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."
On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."
In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."
Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2011 - 03:21pm PT
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2011 - 03:33pm PT
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2011 - 04:04pm PT
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U.S. 'held secret meeting with Muslim Brotherhood'
Discussed fall of Egypt with group dedicated to Islam's global spread
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 01, 2011
10:59 am Eastern
By Aaron Klein
© 2011 WorldNetDaily
Barack Obama
JERUSALEM – The Egyptian government has information a diplomat at the U.S. embassy in Cairo secretly met yesterday with a senior leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, the nation's major Islamist opposition group, WND has learned.
The topic of the meeting was the future of Egypt following the "fall" of President Hosni Mubarak, an Egyptian intelligence official told WND.
The claim comes amid charges from Cairo that the Obama administration has been encouraging the protests rocking Egypt and targeting the rule of Mubarak, a key U.S. ally in the Middle East.
The Egyptian intelligence official told WND his government has information of a meeting that took place yesterday between Issam El-Erian, a senior leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Frank Wisner, a former U.S. ambassador to Egypt.
The Obama administration dispatched Wisner to Egypt this past weekend to report to the State Department and White House a general sense of the situation in the embattled country.
(Story continues below)
The Egyptian intelligence official speaking to WND said the meeting took place inside the American embassy in Cairo
The U.S. State Department would neither confirm nor deny the report.
The Muslim Brotherhood seeks to spread Islam around the world, in large part using nonviolent means. Hamas and al-Qaida are violent Brotherhood offshoots.
The latest information is not the first charge by the Egyptian government that the Obama administration has been working with or encouraging the opposition to Mubarak.
Last week, a senior Egyptian diplomat stated the Egyptian government suspects elements of the current uprising there, particularly political aspects, are being coordinated with the U.S. State Department and Obama administration.
The senior Egyptian diplomat told WND the Mubarak regime suspects the U.S. has been aiding protest planning by Mohamed ElBaradei, who is seen as one of the main opposition leaders in Cairo.
ElBaradei, former International Atomic Energy Agency chief, has reinvented himself as a campaigner for "reform" in Egypt. He is a candidate for this year's scheduled presidential elections.
ElBaradei arrived in Cairo just after last week's protests began and is reportedly being confined to his home by Egyptian security forces.
He is seen as an ally of the Muslim Brotherhood.
This past weekend, the London Telegraph reported the U.S. embassy in Cairo in 2008 helped a young dissident attend a U.S.-sponsored summit for activists in New York, while working to keep his identity secret from Egyptian state police.
The Telegraph would not identify the dissident, but said he was involved in helping to stir the current protests. The report claimed the dissident told the U.S. embassy in Cairo that an alliance of opposition groups had a plan to topple Mubarak'sgovernment.
The disclosures, contained in U.S. diplomatic dispatches released by the WikiLeaks website, show American officials pressed the Egyptian government to release other dissidents who had been detained by the police.
The White House has been almost openly championing the unrest in Egypt.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called for an "orderly transition" to democracy in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood is the main opposition group.
Obama reportedly voiced support for an "orderly transition" in Egypt that is responsive to the aspirations of Egyptians in phone calls with foreign leaders, the White House said.
Deputy National Security Adviser Denis McDonough, speaking in a White House webcast, also urged the government and protesters in Egypt to refrain from violence.
Egyptian officials speaking to WND, however, warned the Muslim Brotherhood has the most to gain from any political reform.
Read more: U.S. 'held secret meeting with Muslim Brotherhood' http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=258405#ixzz1Ck52qmZ7
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dirtbag
climber
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U.S. 'held secret meeting with Muslim Brotherhood'
Discussed fall of Egypt with group dedicated to Islam's global spread
----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: February 01, 2011
10:59 am Eastern
By Aaron Klein
© 2011 WorldNetDaily
Barack Obama
JERUSALEM – The Egyptian government has information a diplomat at the U.S. embassy in Cairo secretly met yesterday with a senior leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, the nation's major Islamist opposition group, WND has learned.
The topic of the meeting was the future of Egypt following the "fall" of President Hosni Mubarak, an Egyptian intelligence official told WND.
The claim comes amid charges from Cairo that the Obama administration has been encouraging the protests rocking Egypt and targeting the rule of Mubarak, a key U.S. ally in the Middle East.
The Egyptian intelligence official told WND his government has information of a meeting that took place yesterday between Issam El-Erian, a senior leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Frank Wisner, a former U.S. ambassador to Egypt.
The Obama administration dispatched Wisner to Egypt this past weekend to report to the State Department and White House a general sense of the situation in the embattled country.
(Story continues below)
The Egyptian intelligence official speaking to WND said the meeting took place inside the American embassy in Cairo
The U.S. State Department would neither confirm nor deny the report.
The Muslim Brotherhood seeks to spread Islam around the world, in large part using nonviolent means. Hamas and al-Qaida are violent Brotherhood offshoots.
The latest information is not the first charge by the Egyptian government that the Obama administration has been working with or encouraging the opposition to Mubarak.
Last week, a senior Egyptian diplomat stated the Egyptian government suspects elements of the current uprising there, particularly political aspects, are being coordinated with the U.S. State Department and Obama administration.
The senior Egyptian diplomat told WND the Mubarak regime suspects the U.S. has been aiding protest planning by Mohamed ElBaradei, who is seen as one of the main opposition leaders in Cairo.
ElBaradei, former International Atomic Energy Agency chief, has reinvented himself as a campaigner for "reform" in Egypt. He is a candidate for this year's scheduled presidential elections.
ElBaradei arrived in Cairo just after last week's protests began and is reportedly being confined to his home by Egyptian security forces.
He is seen as an ally of the Muslim Brotherhood.
This past weekend, the London Telegraph reported the U.S. embassy in Cairo in 2008 helped a young dissident attend a U.S.-sponsored summit for activists in New York, while working to keep his identity secret from Egyptian state police.
The Telegraph would not identify the dissident, but said he was involved in helping to stir the current protests. The report claimed the dissident told the U.S. embassy in Cairo that an alliance of opposition groups had a plan to topple Mubarak'sgovernment.
The disclosures, contained in U.S. diplomatic dispatches released by the WikiLeaks website, show American officials pressed the Egyptian government to release other dissidents who had been detained by the police.
The White House has been almost openly championing the unrest in Egypt.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called for an "orderly transition" to democracy in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood is the main opposition group.
Obama reportedly voiced support for an "orderly transition" in Egypt that is responsive to the aspirations of Egyptians in phone calls with foreign leaders, the White House said.
Deputy National Security Adviser Denis McDonough, speaking in a White House webcast, also urged the government and protesters in Egypt to refrain from violence.
Egyptian officials speaking to WND, however, warned the Muslim Brotherhood has the most to gain from any political reform.
Read more: U.S. 'held secret meeting with Muslim Brotherhood' http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=258405#ixzz1Ck52qmZ7
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2011 - 04:18pm PT
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Judge compares Obamacare to reason for Revolution
'Difficult to imagine' Founders forcing people 'to buy tea'
Posted: January 31, 2011
9:39 pm Eastern
By Bob Unruh
© 2011 WorldNetDaily
The federal judge who today ruled that Obamacare is unconstitutional said he couldn't imagine that the Founders of America would have rebelled over a tea tax only to set up a government requiring people to buy tea.
"If it [Congress] has the power to compel an otherwise passive individual into a commercial transaction with a third party merely by asserting – as was done in the Act – that compelling the actual transaction is itself 'commercial and economic in nature and substantially affects interstate commerce,' it is not hyperbolizing to suggest that Congress could do almost anything it wanted," wrote Judge Roger Vinson in his decision declaring the more than 2,000 pages of legislation unconstitutional.
Get "Taking America Back," Joseph Farah's manifesto for sovereignty, self-reliance and moral renewal
"It is difficult to imagine that a nation which began, at least in part, as the result of opposition to a British mandate giving the East India Company a monopoly and imposing a nominal tax on all tea sold in America would have set out to create a government with the power to force people to buy tea in the first place," he said.
A multitude of organizations whose leaders have been fighting the nationalization under Obama of one-sixth of the nation's economy – the health care complex – agreed.
"We … feel vindicated by Judge Vinson's ruling that the Obamacare mandate – which forces Americans to buy health insurance – is unconstitutional," said a statement from Concerned Women for America.
"We urge Congress to go forward with repealing the law and all its unsavory elements: the unconstitutional mandate, the higher taxes, and the abortion coverage which almost killed the bill in Congress last year."
(Story continues below)
Vinson concluded that the requirement that all Americans buy the health insurance specified by the government isn't within Congress' power, and since that is instrumental to the rest of the law, the entire package must collapse.
His is the fourth district court opinion on the subject. Two found the plan constitutional and now two have declared it unconstitutional. The status ultimately is expected to be determined by the U.S. Supreme Court.
The Florida case, in the U.S. District court in Pensacola, was the most high-profile, however, because it was brought by 26 states and others.
"Congress must operate within the bounds established by the Constitution. … I must reluctantly conclude that Congress exceeded the bounds of its authority in passing the Act with the individual mandate … Because the individual mandate is unconstitutional and not severable, the entire Act must be declared void," he said.
There also are about a dozen states with legislation pending that would outlaw Obamacare within their borders.
At the Institute for Policy Innovation, officials said, "state legislators should yell 'Stop,' and set Obamacare implementation efforts aside until the U.S. Supreme Court decides the issue."
Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, said the ruling backs up the earlier verdict in a Virginia case, and it's important because of the Constitution.
"Many of us opposed Obamacare in part because of our oath to the Constitution," he said. "Any member who has reservations should now be empowered to vote with those of us who will cut off all funding to Obamacare starting with the continuing resolution."
He said his legislation plan would treat Obamacare "as if such act had not been enacted."
Liberty Counsel Chairman Mat Staver, who already is preparing to argue a similar case before the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, said, "Congress does not have unlimited authority to regulate private actions. If the Constitution does not give Congress the power to act, then Congress cannot act. No one wants the federal government or a pencil-pushing bureaucrat in Washington policing private medical decisions. No one wants IRS agents to become the health insurance police. The threat to liberty posed by the health-care bill goes beyond health care."
The American Center for Law and Justice also is arguing cases against Obamacare, and chief counsel Jay Sekulow said the decision is "both sensible and sound."
"By declaring the individual mandate unconstitutional, the court rejects the unprecedented power grab by the federal government. But the Florida decision goes further – striking down the entire health care law as unconstitutional," he said. "The fact is that forcing Americans to purchase health care not only undermines individual liberty, but violates the Commerce Clause of the Constitution, and as this court correctly determined, renders the entire law void. We're very encouraged by this ruling and will continue to represent members of Congress in preparing an amicus brief supporting Florida's challenge of Obamacare – at the next level – at the appellate court."
If the government appeals, as is expected, it would go to the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, said the decision was what most of the states and a majority of the American people already knew.
"The federal government should not be in the business of forcing you to buy health insurance and punishing you if you don’t," he said.
"This health care law remains a major source of uncertainty for small businesses, which is why all parties involved should request that this case be sent to the U.S. Supreme Court for a swift and fair resolution. Of course, the easiest way to protect the American people from this job-destroying health care law is to repeal it so we can start over with common-sense reforms that lower costs and protect jobs without unconstitutional mandates, new taxes, and costly penalties. The House has passed legislation to do just that, and I hope Senate Democratic leaders will bring up the measure for an up-or-down vote," he said.
Clint Bolick, the litigation director for the Goldwater Institute, said the result was a "triumph."
The judge said the case wasn't about the problems with health care today, but "about our federalist system."
The judge said, "If Congress can penalize a passive individual for failing to engage in commerce, the enumeration of powers in the Constitution would have been in vain for it would be 'difficult to perceive any limitation on federal power' and we would have a Constitution in name only.
"Surely this is not what the Founding Fathers could have intended."
He concluded that the U.S. Supreme Court has defined the Commerce Clause to require "activity."
"I am required to interpret this law as the Supreme Court presently defines it. Only the Supreme Court can redefine it or expand it further – a point implicitly made by one of the defendants' own cited authorities," he said.
Obamacare already has been repealed in the U.S. House, where the vote was 245-189, which included three Democrats backing repeal. While Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has promised to prevent the issue from coming up for discussion, Republicans say they will work on getting the Senate, which has a slight Democrat majority, to discuss the issue.
In Texas, the state legislation rejecting the takeover plan is being led by Rep. Leo Berman, R-Tyler.
The measure would not only nullify the federal requirements but would include penalties of up to $5,000 in fines and up to five years in jail for anyone guilty of the "felony" of attempting "to enforce an act, order, law, statute, rule or regulation" of Obamacare.
The bill says the federal act:
(1) is invalid in this state;
(2) is not recognized by this state;
(3) is specifically rejected by this state; and
(4) is null and void and of no effect in this state.
It provides that "a person who is an official, agent, or employee of the United States or an employee of a corporation providing services to the United States commits an offense if the person enforces or attempts to enforce an act, order, law, statute, rule, or regulation of the United States in violation of this chapter."
Read more: Judge compares Obamacare to reason for Revolution http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=258221#ixzz1Ck9Ovq6a
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dirtbag
climber
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Judge compares Obamacare to reason for Revolution
'Difficult to imagine' Founders forcing people 'to buy tea'
Posted: January 31, 2011
9:39 pm Eastern
By Bob Unruh
© 2011 WorldNetDaily
The federal judge who today ruled that Obamacare is unconstitutional said he couldn't imagine that the Founders of America would have rebelled over a tea tax only to set up a government requiring people to buy tea.
"If it [Congress] has the power to compel an otherwise passive individual into a commercial transaction with a third party merely by asserting – as was done in the Act – that compelling the actual transaction is itself 'commercial and economic in nature and substantially affects interstate commerce,' it is not hyperbolizing to suggest that Congress could do almost anything it wanted," wrote Judge Roger Vinson in his decision declaring the more than 2,000 pages of legislation unconstitutional.
Get "Taking America Back," Joseph Farah's manifesto for sovereignty, self-reliance and moral renewal
"It is difficult to imagine that a nation which began, at least in part, as the result of opposition to a British mandate giving the East India Company a monopoly and imposing a nominal tax on all tea sold in America would have set out to create a government with the power to force people to buy tea in the first place," he said.
A multitude of organizations whose leaders have been fighting the nationalization under Obama of one-sixth of the nation's economy – the health care complex – agreed.
"We … feel vindicated by Judge Vinson's ruling that the Obamacare mandate – which forces Americans to buy health insurance – is unconstitutional," said a statement from Concerned Women for America.
"We urge Congress to go forward with repealing the law and all its unsavory elements: the unconstitutional mandate, the higher taxes, and the abortion coverage which almost killed the bill in Congress last year."
(Story continues below)
Vinson concluded that the requirement that all Americans buy the health insurance specified by the government isn't within Congress' power, and since that is instrumental to the rest of the law, the entire package must collapse.
His is the fourth district court opinion on the subject. Two found the plan constitutional and now two have declared it unconstitutional. The status ultimately is expected to be determined by the U.S. Supreme Court.
The Florida case, in the U.S. District court in Pensacola, was the most high-profile, however, because it was brought by 26 states and others.
"Congress must operate within the bounds established by the Constitution. … I must reluctantly conclude that Congress exceeded the bounds of its authority in passing the Act with the individual mandate … Because the individual mandate is unconstitutional and not severable, the entire Act must be declared void," he said.
There also are about a dozen states with legislation pending that would outlaw Obamacare within their borders.
At the Institute for Policy Innovation, officials said, "state legislators should yell 'Stop,' and set Obamacare implementation efforts aside until the U.S. Supreme Court decides the issue."
Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, said the ruling backs up the earlier verdict in a Virginia case, and it's important because of the Constitution.
"Many of us opposed Obamacare in part because of our oath to the Constitution," he said. "Any member who has reservations should now be empowered to vote with those of us who will cut off all funding to Obamacare starting with the continuing resolution."
He said his legislation plan would treat Obamacare "as if such act had not been enacted."
Liberty Counsel Chairman Mat Staver, who already is preparing to argue a similar case before the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, said, "Congress does not have unlimited authority to regulate private actions. If the Constitution does not give Congress the power to act, then Congress cannot act. No one wants the federal government or a pencil-pushing bureaucrat in Washington policing private medical decisions. No one wants IRS agents to become the health insurance police. The threat to liberty posed by the health-care bill goes beyond health care."
The American Center for Law and Justice also is arguing cases against Obamacare, and chief counsel Jay Sekulow said the decision is "both sensible and sound."
"By declaring the individual mandate unconstitutional, the court rejects the unprecedented power grab by the federal government. But the Florida decision goes further – striking down the entire health care law as unconstitutional," he said. "The fact is that forcing Americans to purchase health care not only undermines individual liberty, but violates the Commerce Clause of the Constitution, and as this court correctly determined, renders the entire law void. We're very encouraged by this ruling and will continue to represent members of Congress in preparing an amicus brief supporting Florida's challenge of Obamacare – at the next level – at the appellate court."
If the government appeals, as is expected, it would go to the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, said the decision was what most of the states and a majority of the American people already knew.
"The federal government should not be in the business of forcing you to buy health insurance and punishing you if you don’t," he said.
"This health care law remains a major source of uncertainty for small businesses, which is why all parties involved should request that this case be sent to the U.S. Supreme Court for a swift and fair resolution. Of course, the easiest way to protect the American people from this job-destroying health care law is to repeal it so we can start over with common-sense reforms that lower costs and protect jobs without unconstitutional mandates, new taxes, and costly penalties. The House has passed legislation to do just that, and I hope Senate Democratic leaders will bring up the measure for an up-or-down vote," he said.
Clint Bolick, the litigation director for the Goldwater Institute, said the result was a "triumph."
The judge said the case wasn't about the problems with health care today, but "about our federalist system."
The judge said, "If Congress can penalize a passive individual for failing to engage in commerce, the enumeration of powers in the Constitution would have been in vain for it would be 'difficult to perceive any limitation on federal power' and we would have a Constitution in name only.
"Surely this is not what the Founding Fathers could have intended."
He concluded that the U.S. Supreme Court has defined the Commerce Clause to require "activity."
"I am required to interpret this law as the Supreme Court presently defines it. Only the Supreme Court can redefine it or expand it further – a point implicitly made by one of the defendants' own cited authorities," he said.
Obamacare already has been repealed in the U.S. House, where the vote was 245-189, which included three Democrats backing repeal. While Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has promised to prevent the issue from coming up for discussion, Republicans say they will work on getting the Senate, which has a slight Democrat majority, to discuss the issue.
In Texas, the state legislation rejecting the takeover plan is being led by Rep. Leo Berman, R-Tyler.
The measure would not only nullify the federal requirements but would include penalties of up to $5,000 in fines and up to five years in jail for anyone guilty of the "felony" of attempting "to enforce an act, order, law, statute, rule or regulation" of Obamacare.
The bill says the federal act:
(1) is invalid in this state;
(2) is not recognized by this state;
(3) is specifically rejected by this state; and
(4) is null and void and of no effect in this state.
It provides that "a person who is an official, agent, or employee of the United States or an employee of a corporation providing services to the United States commits an offense if the person enforces or attempts to enforce an act, order, law, statute, rule, or regulation of the United States in violation of this chapter."
Read more: Judge compares Obamacare to reason for Revolution http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=258221#ixzz1Ck9Ovq6a
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2011 - 12:09pm PT
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http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/08/obamas-muslim-outreach-adviser-tied-to-muslim-brotherhood-quits.html
Obama Lifts Ban on Muslim Brotherhood Leader – Getting ready for the new Egypt?
January 29, 2011 —
Let me offer my two cents or more. Sounds like the U.S. may have been supporting the overthrow of the present Egyptian regime behind the scene. Okay, maybe Egypt is up for Jeffersonian Democracy, but I wouldn’t count on it. I was willing to let that go, for perhaps a feel good moment that the great awakening was happening in the middle east. Since I am very much a cynic regarding the Obama regime, this tidbit that I caught up with was very alarming to me. Having witnessed first hand from relatives who worked for the U.S. government in Iran at the time the Shah was kicked, a deja vu moment flashed before me. Yes, the Shah was tough on the fanatics. Yes, the Shah for the first time was attempting to westernize the country that was driving the clerics nuts. Women were allowed to go to school. Drive. Use makeup. But no, we were determined that they have their Democratic society. It lasted a few moments. Then the fanatics took over. At some point, as much as we love our Country, we must come to recognize it is not always the perfect system for everyone. If the price of potential freedom ends up in worse tyranny, nothing has been gained.
Getting on with my story: Recall this post of ours last year: Janet Napolitano meets with Muslim Brotherhood Leaders
Why are we now sucking up to the Muslim Brotherhood? Is this Obama’s idea for the new government in Egypt? Is this what he is working on behind the scene? Another repeat of Iran?
Today we learn that the Barack Obama administration has decided to lift a ban preventing Muslim Scholar Professor Tariq Ramadan from entering the United States. Ramadan, an Egyptian currently living in Switzerland, is a leading member of Europe’s Muslim Brotherhood branch and the grandson of the movement’s founder Hassan al-Banna. The Muslim Brotherhood is the parent organization for Hamas and some of the groups that recently merged into al-Qaeda, including Ayman al Zawahiri’s Egyptian Islamic Jihad. Ramadan was invited to teach at the University of Notre Dame in 2004 but the George W. Bush administration revoked his visa, citing a statute that applies to those who have “endorsed or espoused” terrorism. Israel Nation News
The Egyptian intelligence official told WND his government has information of a meeting that took place yesterday between Issam El-Erian, a senior leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Frank Wisner, a former U.S. ambassador to Egypt.
The Obama administration dispatched Wisner to Egypt this past weekend to report to the State Department and White House a general sense of the situation in the embattled country.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2011 - 12:22pm PT
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Egyptians Battling in Streets of Cairo
Cairo Museum Reportedly Catches Fire after Molotv Cocktail Thrown
http://www.foxnews.com/
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2011 - 01:13pm PT
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The Muslim Brotherhood expounds a caliphate system of government (the Islam religion is the government) and some Muslim Brotherhood leaders have overtly called for the destruction of Israel.
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/mb.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood
Any overt or covert support for any organization like this by our
American Government is subversive and contrary to our belief of 'separation of church and state' and is a backstab to our ally Israel since Egypt sits right on its border.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2011 - 02:37pm PT
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US response to Egypt draws criticism in Israel
Feb 3, 7:26 AM (ET)
By AMY TEIBEL
JERUSALEM (AP) - President Barack Obama's response to the crisis in Egypt is drawing fierce criticism in Israel, where many view the U.S. leader as a political naif whose pressure on a stalwart ally to hand over power is liable to backfire.
Critics - including senior Israeli officials who have shied from saying so publicly - say Obama is repeating the same mistakes of predecessors whose calls for human rights and democracy in the Middle East have often backfired by bringing anti-West regimes to power.
Israeli officials, while refraining from open criticism of Obama, have made no secret of their view that shunning Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and pushing for swift elections in Egypt could bring unintended results.
"I don't think the Americans understand yet the disaster they have pushed the Middle East into," said lawmaker Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, who until recently was a Cabinet minister and who is a longtime friend of Mubarak.
"If there are elections like the Americans want, I wouldn't be surprised if the Muslim Brotherhood didn't win a majority, it would win half of the seats in parliament," he told Army Radio. "It will be a new Middle East, extremist radical Islam."
Three decades ago, President Jimmy Carter urged another staunch American ally - the shah of Iran - to loosen his grip on power, only to see his autocratic regime replaced by the Islamic Republic. More recently, U.S.-supported elections have strengthened such groups as Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas in the Palestinian territories and anti-American radicals in Iran.
"Jimmy Carter will go down in American history as 'the president who lost Iran,'" the analyst Aluf Benn wrote in the daily Haaretz this week. "Barack Obama will be remembered as the president who 'lost' Turkey, Lebanon and Egypt, and during whose tenure America's alliances in the Middle East crumbled," Benn wrote.
Israel has tremendous respect for Mubarak, who carefully honored his country's peace agreement with Israel after taking power nearly 30 years ago.
While relations were often cool, Mubarak maintained a stable situation that has allowed Israel to greatly reduce its military spending and troop presence along the border with Egypt.
He also worked with Israel to contain the Gaza Strip's Hamas government and served as a bridge to the broader Arab world. Israeli leaders have said it is essential that whoever emerges as Egypt's next leader continue to honor the peace agreement.
For more than a week, Egyptians fed up with deepening poverty, corruption and 30 years of Mubarak's autocratic rule have massed across the country to demand his ouster. The backlash has forced Mubarak to announce he won't run in September elections, but that has not appeased protesters, who want him out now.
In the course of the turmoil, the Obama administration has repeatedly recalibrated its posture, initially expressing confidence in Egypt's government, later threatening to withhold U.S. aid, and lastly, pressing Mubarak to loosen his grip on power immediately.
"We want to see free, fair and credible elections," State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said Wednesday. "The sooner that can happen, the better."
Critics say the U.S. is once again confusing the mechanics of democracy with democracy itself.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressed similar sentiments this week when he warned that "if extremist forces are allowed to exploit democratic processes to come to power to advance anti-democratic goals - as has happened in Iran and elsewhere - the outcome will be bad for peace and bad for democracy."
So far, no unified opposition leadership or clear program for change has emerged in Egypt. Historically the leading opposition in Egypt has been the Muslim Brotherhood, a group that favors Islamic rule and has been repressed by Mubarak throughout his tenure.
Many young people see the former director of the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog agency, Mohammed ElBaradei, as Egypt's democratic hope, but critics say he is out of touch with Egypt's problems because he has spent so many years outside of the country.
The calls for democracy inside Egypt have put the U.S. in an awkward position of having to balance its defense for human rights with its longtime ties to an authoritarian regime that has been a crucial Arab ally.
In Israel, critics say the U.S. has suffered a credibility loss by shaking off Mubarak when his regime started crumbling.
"The Israeli concept is that the U.S. rushed to stab Mubarak in the back," said Eytan Gilboa, an expert on the U.S. at Bar-Ilan University.
"As Israel sees it, they could have pressured Mubarak, but not in such an overt way, because the consequence could be a loss of faith in the U.S. by all pro-Western Arab states in the Middle East, and also a loss of faith in Israel," he said.
Raphael Israeli, a professor emeritus of Middle Eastern Studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, echoed a widely felt perception that before the unrest erupted, the Obama administration paid only lip service to the lack of human rights in Mubarak's authoritarian regime.
"If Obama were genuinely concerned with what is going on in Egypt, he should have made the same demands two years ago (when he addressed the Muslim world in Cairo) and eight years and 20 years ago. Mubarak didn't come to power yesterday."
"As long as there are no problems, the oppression works," Israeli said. "If the oppression doesn't work, suddenly it becomes urgent. That's unacceptable."
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2011 - 11:26am PT
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The vice president of Egypt said 1 million foreign tourists have fled the country, costing $1 billion in lost revenues from one of Egypt's most important industries.
80% of Egypts GNP is associated with Tourism. Government instability, in any form, does not contribute in any positive way.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2011 - 04:18pm PT
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THE DECADES-LONG MILITARY RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE U.S. AND EGYPT BENEFITS BOTH
COUNTRIES - Egypt gets everything from tanks and fighter jets to warships. The U.S. gets flyover rights, desert training exercises and expedited passage for its naval vessels through the Suez Canal.
Now questions abound as to whether the Egyptian military will emerge from the ongoing crisis unscathed and whether a new Egyptian government would maintain this close military-to military relationship.
U.S. Arms In Egypt
The military weapons and gear on the streets of Cairo have one thing in common.
"All the people picking up tear gas canisters that said Made in the USA. And the jets that fly overhead that buzz the crowds are American F-16s," says Gary Sick, who worked on Middle East issues for three presidents at the National Security Council and now teaches at Columbia University. "That sends a particular message on where the United States stands on this whole thing."
The United States is the major arms supplier to Egypt — more than $1 billion each year from the American taxpayer. That pays for a full 80 percent of the weapons Egypt buys from American companies like General Dynamics.
And there's more. Egypt gets hundreds of millions of dollars in surplus American military equipment.
Larry Velte, of National Defense University, says that includes everything from two Navy frigates to helicopter spare parts.
"Apache helicopters, which may not, these days, be state-of-the-art modern, but they're better than the Russian models that they had," says Velte.
The Russian ones they had until the mid 1970s. That's when Egyptian President Anwar Sadat turned his back on the Soviets and reached out to the Americans. (Source: NPR)
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2011 - 07:48am PT
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Two years ago on January 20th, Barack Obama was inaugurated as president of the United States . Are you better off today than you were two years ago? Numbers don't lie, and here are the data on the impact he has had on the lives of Americans.
January 2009_TODAY_% chg_Source
Avg. retail price/gallon gas in U.S. $1.83 $3.104 69.6% 1
Crude oil, European Brent (barrel) $43.48 $99.02 127.7% 2
Crude oil, West TX Inter. (barrel) $38.74 $91.38 135.9% 2
Gold: London (per troy oz.) $853.25 $1,369.50 60.5% 2
Corn, No.2 yellow, Central IL $3.56 $6.33 78.1% 2
Soybeans, No. 1 yellow, IL $9.66 $13.75 42.3% 2
Sugar, cane, raw, world, lb. fob $13.37 $35.39 164.7% 2
Unemployment rate, non-farm, overall 7.6% 9.4% 23.7% 3
Unemployment rate, blacks 12.6% 15.8% 25.4% 3
Number of unemployed 11,616,000 14,485,000 24.7% 3
Number of fed. employees, ex. military (curr = 12/10 prelim)
2,779,000 2,840,000 2.2% 3
Real median household income (2008 v 2009)
$50,112 $49,777 -0.7% 4
Number of food stamp recipients (curr = 10/10)
31,983,716 43,200,878 35.1% 5
Number of unemployment benefit recipients (curr = 12/10)
7,526,598 9,193,838 22.2% 6
Number of long-term unemployed
2,600,000 6,400,000 146.2% 3
Poverty rate, individuals (2008 v 2009) 13.2% 14.3% 8.3% 4
People in poverty in U.S. (2008 v 2009)
39,800,000 43,600,000 9.5% 4
U.S. rank in Economic Freedom World Rankings
5 9 n/a 10
Present Situation Index (curr = 12/10) 29.9 23.5 -21.4% 11
Failed banks (curr = 2010 + 2011 to date)
140 164 17.1% 12
U.S. dollar versus Japanese yen exchange rate
89.76 82.03 -8.6% 2
U.S. money supply, M1, in billions (curr = 12/10 prelim)
1,575.1 1,865.7 18.4% 13
U.S. money supply, M2, in billions (curr = 12/10 prelim)
8,310.9 8,852.3 6.5% 13
National debt, in trillions $10.627 $14.052 32.2% 14
Just take this last item: In the last two years we have accumulated national debt at a rate more than 27 times as fast as during the rest of our entire nation's history. Over 27 times as fast! Metaphorically, speaking, if you are driving in the right lane doing 65 MPH and a car rockets past you in the left lane 27 times faster . . . it would be doing 1,755 MPH! This is a disaster!
Sources:
(1) U.S. Energy Information Administration; (2) Wall Street Journal; (3) Bureau of Labor Statistics; (4) Census Bureau; (5) USDA; (6) U.S. Dept. of Labor; (7) FHFA; (8) Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller; (9) RealtyTrac; (10) Heritage Foundation and WSJ; (11) The Conference Board; (12) FDIC; (13) Federal Reserve; (14) U.S. Treasury
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2011 - 08:21am PT
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Go to FOX and vote NO on banning the American flag in America VOTE !!!
This is disgusting, to put it mildly. Your voice needs to be heard.
This is just sickening. Only 76.15% have voted on the FOX poll to NOT ban the flag in school and something like 18.0% voted YES, to ban it
What is going on in this country?? Read below.
Fox is running a poll about whether the flag should be banned in schools in order not to inflame Hispanic students. The poll is being sandbagged by SEIU and we should mount a counter action if you agree with me that the flag should be taken down for no one.
Moveon.org, funded by George Soros, Organizing for America , and SEIU, "Service Employee International UNION", have been twittering today to go to Fox Poll and vote to BAN the Flag and right now it is still working (18%).
It's time to SHOW THEM WHAT TRUE PATRIOTS BELIEVE!!!
GO HERE NOW:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/05/06/american-flag-banned-america/
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2011 - 11:20am PT
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Biting the bullet on expenses:
It's tough but, like our government, we all need to do our part.
The President ordered the cabinet to cut a whopping $100 million from the $3.5 trillion federal budget!
I'm so impressed by this sacrifice that I have decided to do the same thing with my personal budget. Being retired, I spend about $1500 a month on groceries, medicine, bills, etc., but it's time to get out the budget cutting ax, go line by line through my expenses, and go to work.
I'm going to cut my spending at exactly the same ratio -1/35,000 of my total budget. After doing the math, it looks like instead of spending $1500 a month;
I'm going to have to cut that number by four cents!
Yes, I'm going to have to get by with $1499.96, but that's what sacrifice is all about. I'll just have to do without those luxuries I've been blowing four cents on.
Times are tough. Happy to do my share. :'(
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Feb 15, 2011 - 11:39am PT
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Cutting your throat would save a little more.
& bring you a little closer to the truth.
Under bush gas hit $4.50
You list a lot of things that took a lot of years to get in the shape they are in today
& this is why the worlds fcked up. You will lie to prove your point.
REP. & DEM. SUCK & so do you.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2011 - 12:28pm PT
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2009 to TODAY with references cited.
"Rep and Dem suck and so do you" Cite your references and quantify; this is a qualitative assessment based upon?
You know, I’m starting to get this hoe, I mean whole, dirtbag and Dr F. liberal thang’. Personal attacks are waaaaay more fun than diligent research, thoughtful analysis and engaging in meaningful dialogue.
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dirtbag
climber
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Feb 15, 2011 - 12:35pm PT
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You know, I’m starting to get this hoe, I mean whole, dirtbag and Dr F. liberal thang’. Personal attacks are waaaaay more fun than diligent research, thoughtful analysis and engaging in meaningful dialogue.
"diligent research, thoughtful analysis and engaging in meaningful dialogue"
You mean, like you've been providing all along?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Suck it.
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Daniel Eubank
Sport climber
Woodbridge, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2011 - 12:39pm PT
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 15, 2011 - 02:16pm PT
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At what point when a person's posting behavior starts to mimic a spambot should they be moderated?
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dirtbag
climber
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Feb 15, 2011 - 02:21pm PT
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That's his idea of "diligent research, thoughtful analysis and engaging in meaningful dialogue."
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D.Eubanks
climber
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Feb 18, 2011 - 09:53am PT
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(A slight mix-up here.)
Dana Eubanks does not contribute to any political threads.
Daniel Eubank does contribute to political threads.
Thank you,
Dana
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D.Eubanks
climber
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Feb 18, 2011 - 12:32pm PT
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Thank You! Crowley
Dana
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Bump so that if we're gonna have a thread like this on the front page, it oughta at least be the original one.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Recent news reports say that the short version seems to be that both the current and last President appear to be lying sacks of sh#t on wanting to get us invoked militarily in places we should stay out of. Thank God the congress voted to keep us out of Obama's announced attack on Syria. Semore Hersh on Obama lying to get us into war: http://news.yahoo.com/seymour-hersh-alleges-obama-administration-lied-syria-gas-204437397.html
Short version, Obama lied to get us to attack Syria. Blurb from link:
" Hersh says the thorough daily intelligence briefings in the days surrounding the gas attack did not make a single mention of Syria, even as videos and photos of the attack went viral across the Internet. He added that there was revealed a sensor system in Syria that had, in December 2012, shown sarin production at a chemical weapons depot arranged by the Syrian army. Though it was unclear whether this was a simulation or not – all militaries, Hersh says, practice simulations of such things – Obama promptly warned Syria that use of sarin gas would be "unacceptable."
‘If what the sensors saw last December was so important that the president had to call and say, “Knock it off,” why didn’t the president issue the same warning three days before the gas attack in August?’
The media succumbed to confirmation bias in response to a UN report on the attack. That report, which is less than certain in its terms, said that the spent weapon "indicatively matches" the specifics of a 330mm calibre artillery rocket. MIT professor Theodore Postol and other munitions experts later reviewed the photos and said that it was improvised, likely made locally, didn't match anything in the Syrian arsenal and would not have been able to travel the nine kilometres from the Syrian army base that the media presumed it was fired from.
Postol and a colleague, Richard M. Lloyd, published an analysis two weeks after 21 August in which they correctly assessed that the rockets involved carried a far greater payload of sarin than previously estimated. The Times reported on that analysis at length, describing Postol and Lloyd as ‘leading weapons experts’. The pair’s later study about the rockets’ flight paths and range, which contradicted previous Times reporting, was emailed to the newspaper last week; it has so far gone unreported.
Though a UN resolution nullified the chances of American military intervention, the impact would be significant if the allegations hold up; recall that President George W. Bush's legacy was deeply tainted by charges that the U.S. had no proof of nuclear weapons in Iraq when they said they did. Hersh hints at the seriousness of the charges himself: "The cherry-picking was similar to the process used to justify the Iraq war."
AS SAID UPTHREAD
"I only want to say that the difference between the dems and repubs seems to be this:
Democrats are for taxing and spending: -taking the country into the shithole.
Republicans are for borrowing and spending: taking the country into an even deeper shithole.
Clinton was the exception. I see little difference between Bush and Obama - they BOTH seemed intent on spending our country into hell. Samesame NO DIFFERENCE! I bet that both of their wives handle their finances. Our children will be paying for this craziness. Time to vote libertarian and reduce the size of big government. "
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Your stated intent maybe?
prosecute the tortures
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Prince Barry gave a speech a few days ago on "income inequality"
The five things he didn't tell you.
a. Five years into his presidency he so far hasn’t done anything to stop growing income inequality–the problem has gotten worse on his watch.
b. He doesn’t have any proposals (“It’s time to pass the Paycheck Fairness Act”) that come close to solving the problem as he defines it.
c. His one big previous initiative to reduce inequality–the Affordable Care Act–may now be hopelessly screwed up due to his own inattention and non-competence.
d. His remaining big domestic initiative–”comprehensive” immigration reform–would almost certainly make inequality worse by vastly increasing the number of unskilled workers bidding down wages at the bottom of the income scale, with the profits from the cheap labor going to business owners at the top.
Also the final numbers are in on the Government Motors fiasco.
We, (yes all you progressives too)
took a 10.5 billion dollar bath on a handout to,
BIG BUSINESS!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 11, 2013 - 12:05am PT
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What's wrong with income inequality?
Unequal doesn't mean unfair.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Dec 18, 2013 - 02:07pm PT
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What's wrong with income inequality?
Nothing as long as it's not too extreme.
Unequal doesn't mean unfair.
Unless the people making over $10 million a year have undue influence over politicians so laws are created to benefit them at the expense of others.
Income inequality is rising to levels that can hurt the economy and society that's the problem.
The super rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.
Unfortunately the super rich have a lot of power so there is the real danger that any changes will come from the middle class and especially upper middle class to help the poor, instead of from those making millions or billions of dollars.
IMO even the working poor should pay at least 1% to contribute something, but the taxes on the very rich (e.g. $5 million a year plus) should rise mainly through closing loopholes, so they are contributing more to the infrastructure and society that enables them to make a lot of money.
Of course you hear from the right how the rich already pay the majority of the taxes already, which is true, but it makes sense because they get so much of the income. e.g. the top 1% earns more income than the bottom 50%.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 18, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
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IMO even the working poor should pay at least 1% to contribute something, but the taxes on the very rich (e.g. $5 million a year plus) should rise mainly through closing loopholes, so they are contributing more to the infrastructure and society that enables them to make a lot of money.
Of course you hear from the right how the rich already pay the majority of the taxes already, which is true, but it makes sense because they get so much of the income. e.g. the top 1% earns more income than the bottom 50%.
Good point, as usual, the Fet. Unfortunately, the "loopholes" won't be easy to close, because most of them don't benefit the rich as much as they do the middle class. I still remember a a famous Brookings study by Joseph Pechman (a true believer in closing loopholes) decrying various "loopholes for the rich." It turned out the joint return was his biggest "loophole for the rich." He didn't even deal with interest deductions (back then, all interest was deductible).
We could debate whether the joint return qualifies as a loophole, and we've closed one of his major ones -- tax free Social Security -- but neither are really loopholes "for the rich." We have yet to touch the biggest loophole -- mortgage interest and the $500k tax-free sale of a primary residence.
Capital gains pose a tougher problem, because the lack of income averaging and the effects of long-term inflation distort the nature of a capital gain.
Of at least equal importance, we need a better definition of the "rich." I've known and represented many clients over the years who sold their businesses, built over decades, for prices in excess of $1million. Does that make them "Super rich" if that was the only time in their lives they had income in excess of $100,000.00? If we allocated the gain in the sale of their business over the lifetime of their ownership, their income would be moderate at best. Put another way, one year they have very high income, but never before or since. Do they belong to the set of "the rich?"
Finally, I question the idea of increased income inequality as being a cause of recession or lack of economic growth. The empirical evidence is lacking, and even Marx dismissed the idea in theory (Curiously, several "Marxists" subscribed to the theory, but when they claim that Marx did, they can only quote each other, rather than Marx).
We should focus on income change for the poorest and for the middle class, not on the gap. My real indictment of the past five years (for which both parties realistically share the blame) is that the poor and middle class lost income and wealth. It would not make me feel better if the upper crust lost more income. Income inequality merely diverts attention from our lack of growth.
John
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Dec 18, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
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Didn't Romney/Ryan propose an unspecified bunch of loophole closures?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:06pm PT
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Locker...If you pay those Mac donald workers a living wage , the price of a big Mac will sky-rocket and the CEO will have to take a pay cut which will lead him to lay more workers off and force the CEO to fill in and help flip burgers...Don't be a fool..!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
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As a registered Republican: I have to commend the Republicans & Democrats in the House & Senate that worked together to pass a budget bill.
I think it's time for Republicans in Congress to start working with Democrats to pull America out of the current economic & moral slump.
It does appear that the Congressional Republican agenda for the last 5 years has been to make Obama and the Democrats fail, at the expense of what is best for our great nation.
Fuk those people. Let's work together to improve our country!
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
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I think it's time for Republicans in Congress to start working with Democrats to pull America out of the current economic & moral slump.
What does passing a Federal budget and "working with Democrats" have to do with pulling America out of the economic slump?
The very idea that the business-loving socialists can do anything positive as regards the economy is a red flag colored...red.
To include "moral" in this equation is very funny, and transparent ...and stupid.
Very stupid. And very funny.
And very stupid.
Republican agenda for the last 5 years has been to make Obama and the Democrats fail,
No one believes this sort of tripe anymore...it's ....so ....2012
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
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Fritz your next congressman from Idaho...! Just steer clear of those airport bathrooms...
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
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Ward! Whatever you choose to judge through your bias or ignorance?
I used moral slump exactly the way I wanted to use it.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/moral
Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
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Do I see a red flag ?
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
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I used moral slump exactly the way I wanted to use it.
That's what amuses and ...concerns me. A political faction decreeing that anybody that disagrees with them is "immoral"
Sound familiar?
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
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Ward? Re your comment: Do I see a red flag ?
Do I see someone who wants the America most of us love to fail?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
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Ward ....Don't even go there...!
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
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America most of us love to fail?
To conflate America not failing with Democrats not failing (or Republicans for that matter) is a little narcissistic , don't you think?
Collective narcissism and propaganda run amok...in Idaho of all places.
Lol.
Very funny.
More punch lines?
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:52pm PT
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I would like all of us to to feel good about our wonderful country, and the fact that Congress is once again working together for the common good of all of us.
Do you have a problem with that?
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:56pm PT
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I would like all of us to to feel good about our wonderful country, and the fact that Congress is once again working together for the common good of all of us.
Very, very funny.
Sort of Mark Twain in reverse there.
Lol
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 10:59pm PT
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Congress is once again working together for the common good of all of us.
One super deluded statement ......
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
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One super deluded statement ......
But funny. In a funny way.
And so ....moral ...in a stupid way
Why does morality and politics always create stupidity when mixed together by funny people?
Unlike the immoral types that might disagree and need to be eliminated.
Lol
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 18, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
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Since I have a life other than the hell of reponding to blog-posts, I will now say good-night to this woefull thread.
In closing, all I can ask is:
Why does Ward Troter hate America?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
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Nobody hates America here it's just that you are deluded and project the nonsense in your head onto the world outside of it ......
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
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Why does Ward Troter hate America?
Because I disagree with Fritz from Idaho and find him funny, moral, and stupid?
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
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At least he isn't humorless, immoral and arrogant.
I 've already said he is funny. I've also just declared him moral.
I can't bring myself to say that someone who disagrees with him is automatically an America hater. To me this smacks of a type of arrogance, and ignorance. Arroignorance.
If I were to approach my friends and say " if you disagree with me then you hate America and all of mankind" they would laugh me out of their lives ; banishing me to Idaho---or to Canada where none of these things really matter.
They would say I was funny and arroignorant.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
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It takes more then ten posts usually before Bruce Kay even begins to get clue what most people here get in one ......
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
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right wing comedy?
I wouldn't know , I'm not a "right winger"
My guess is , since they are human beings, who are passionate about their beliefs just like totalitarian socialists---they have a sense of humor and a comedic sense ---just like you.
The fact that you don't think someone you disagree with has a sense of humor is just more proof that you live in a collective narcissistic bubble and are only capable of responding to your own thinking and comedy.
No great revelation there.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 18, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
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right wing authoritarian personality disorder
Is that the flip side of "left wing authoritarian disorder" or did you ditch class that day?
Wait a minute ...you were educated in Canada... This means you probably only got the right wing disorder training.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 19, 2013 - 12:25am PT
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yes there are lefty authoritarians
Noooooooo.
Tell me that ain't so...joe
Tell me that the majority of mankind did not suffer under the Soviets and the Chinese Communists for most of the 20th century.....nooooooooo
Even the Nazis were socialists.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 19, 2013 - 12:30am PT
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So it turns out you are an idiot after all.
Say what you want about WBraun, but a poor judge of character he is not.
Lol
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 19, 2013 - 12:50am PT
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Now can you substantiate your claim of the Nazi's being lefties?
I didn't say they were "lefties" per se ,I said they were socialists. The Nazi theory of government was substantially the same as the communist totalitarian regimes. Where they differed is in their view that societies are divided primarily along racial lines (nazi's) versus class lines. (communists). Beyond that distinction there was very little real difference.
In fact Hitler and Stalin mutually admired one another and sought to emulate one another's techniques.
The great social/political evil of modern times is social-engineering totalitarian government, in all its forms, and the insertion of government authority into more and more of people's lives with a concomitant loss of freedom and self-determination.
Whether this ugly system is perpetuated by sociopathic madmen like Hitler or Stalin or arrogant narcissistic western bureaucratic elitists who think they are smarter than everyone else ---is ultimately a distinction without a real difference.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Dec 19, 2013 - 01:19am PT
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rank militaristic corporatism sold down the pipe using the usual populist bigotry and victimhood that your red states wallow in. Get a grip. Or at least a book on the subject. Try starting with Wiki but the only source you're likely to find not identifying Nazism with right wing ideology would be Ann Coulture.
This is rank propaganda and updated 60s radical counterculture kitsch--- trying to sound like genuine historical knowledge and political analysis.
It's your typical boilerplate stuff there. Yawn.
I can see those comments making it into the Smithsonian one day as a pedestrian example of Baby boomer leftism representative of western liberalism at its last hurrah during the first two decades of the 21st century.
I've said this before: Western conservatives live with a fear that their social belief system is becoming passé . Western liberals have yet to discover their own belief system is likewise suffering the same fate.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Dec 19, 2013 - 11:46am PT
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Bruce Kay wrote:
But speaking of humorless, have you ever wondered why there is no such thing as right wing comedy?
"I have often been called a Nazi, and, although it is unfair, I don't let it bother me. I don't let it bother me for one simple reason. No one has ever had a fantasy about being tied to a bed and sexually ravished by someone dressed as a liberal"
P.J. O'Rourke
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John M
climber
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Mar 31, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
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that sucks..
And thanks for posting it on this thread. Its about time those damn liberals took a beating.
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Dropline
Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
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I'm neither Republican nor Democrat but as Bill Maher is one of the standard bearers for the Dems his skewering, along with Alisyn Camerota and Don Lemon of CNN, by Reza Aslan seems to fit best here.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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