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Ranger Dan
Mountain climber
Mariposa, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 23, 2010 - 08:36pm PT
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Yosemite Climbers-
Hi all. My name is Danny Schaible and I am a Historical Landscape Architect at Yosemite. This summer, I will be doing research towards possibly nominating the Half Dome cables to the National Register of Historic Places (similar to the status that Camp 4 has).
I am writing to see if any of you have come across any of George Anderson's original drill holes left over from his 1875 ascent of Half Dome. In my limited research so far I have not found any information as to where these original drills holes would have been located. Indeed, it is possible that they mirror the present alignment of the Half Dome cables. However, if any of you have seen evidence of a string of drill holes (he evidently used roughly 40 hand-drilled eye-bolts on his way to the top) located on other sections of Half Dome, please let me know. The drill holes would have been roughly 1/2 inch in diameter by 6 inches deep.
Thanks for your time and please let me know if you have any information on the location of these drill holes.
Danny Schaible
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Larry
Trad climber
Bisbee
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Jun 23, 2010 - 11:20pm PT
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I was always under the impression that the Park Service was thinking of getting rid of the cables someday. Like the firefall, a remnant of a past era.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jun 23, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
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This might help, if you haven't seen it already:
http://www.stanford.edu/%7Egalic/history/halfdome/
"Mr. Anderson began with Conway's old rope, part of which still remains in place, and resolutely drilled his way to the top, inserting eyebolts five or six feet apart, and making his rope fast to each in succession, resting his foot on the last bolt while he drilled for the next above. Occasionally some irregularity in the curve or slight foothold would enable him to climb fifteen or twenty feet independently of the rope, which he would pass and begin drilling again, the whole being accomplished in a few days."
Maybe you can find this one? Phimister Proctor, 1884
The cables in 1919 (note stairway in steep section), and 2002 (same location)
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Jun 23, 2010 - 11:27pm PT
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uh... does that mean if the are granted the nomination they can never be taken down?
Good luck with your effort.
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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Jun 23, 2010 - 11:36pm PT
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As late as the 1870s, Half Dome was declared "perfectly inaccessible".
This would be cool to find the drill holes...
Did it barefoot!!!!
I cannot do that
Good luck Dan
On a side note...
Is there a trail around the base of Half Dome? Or a walkway of any kind?
Never been out there...
I imagine there is..
Just would like to know from someone who knows
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john hansen
climber
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Jun 23, 2010 - 11:51pm PT
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Maybe that little overhang is the clue. Is there a feature that looks like that near the cables, or on a logical line close by?
The artist may have been copying real life or it could be made up..
Anybody got a pic of that face?
There could be an obvious match.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jun 24, 2010 - 12:01am PT
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1/2 by 6 inches deep?
Holy drill blisters Batman!
How long would it take to drill that hole??
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john hansen
climber
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Jun 24, 2010 - 12:16am PT
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That little overhang to the left of the cables about half way up in both those pictures, looks a bit like the drawing that Clint posted.
I don't see many other right angles like that.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Jun 24, 2010 - 01:38am PT
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Tami, you're on a roll tonight ;0
Not sure where they're at, but count me in for a reconnecense of the face until they're found. Would be pretty cool to see one of the holes if not climb the origional route with modern gear.
I love history.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 24, 2010 - 08:42am PT
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Not sure where they're at, but count me in for a reconnecense of the face until they're found.
OK, I know its just the taco and all, and who needs the spelling police,.... but,....
"reconnecense"?
What is that? Some kind of incense?
LOL
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jun 24, 2010 - 08:54am PT
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hey there all, say.... i was really impressed when i first read about george anderson's ascent...
thanks to supertopo, or i'd most likely never have known... :)
thanks for the information share,
god bless... hope you get to find and enjoy seeing the drill holes...
:)
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 24, 2010 - 10:26am PT
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Dan- Contact Ken at the YCA. He actually has an Anderson bolt and could clue you in about the size hole that you are looking for which would be your start. Many of the original bolts were likely broken off by snow loading or subsequent "improvements".
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Jun 24, 2010 - 10:36am PT
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I talked to Dan yesterday and suggested that he might be able to get more information by posting here. The holes are probably 5/8" by 3"-3 1/2".
Ken
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jun 24, 2010 - 10:40am PT
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Whoa, it's too cool to even just look at that thing!
The freekin' history is just oozing off of it.
Thanks Ken.
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Ranger Dan
Mountain climber
Mariposa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 24, 2010 - 12:50pm PT
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WOW!!!!!
You guys are AWESOME!
I really appreciate the response. Definitely a trove of information.
Larry: I don't think the NPS is thinking about getting rid of the cables. They are looking to implement some sort of managment plan due to the recent fatalities associated with the cables. A NR nomination, should it be accepted, would help bolster the argument for preservation.
Clint: Thanks for the Stanford History link. I had not seen it yet. I will definitely go buy a copy of Jack London's Dutch Courage! Those before and after pics are great too!
Mighty Hiker: Thanks for those links to the past threads! Very useful stuff in there.
Ken: Thanks for the pic of the eyebolt! Could I include this shot in the draft National Register nomination if I give YCA credit? And most of all, thanks for the tip on posting my question on Supertopo!
And lastly, an FYI: Someone sent me an email saying they know the route the George Anderson took. I wont name him yet since he did not repond to the thread, but he says he knows the route. I will keep everyone posted as I conduct my research. My first trip up there will be next week, so expect pictures shortly...
Thanks for all your help-
Danny
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scuffy b
climber
Eastern Salinia
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Jun 24, 2010 - 12:54pm PT
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X-rez pictures might be useful. There could be rust streaks or streaks
of lichen inhibition from the broken bolts.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 24, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
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Great project Dan, good luck!!
It makes me laugh when climbers say the cables should be removed. Yeah let's remove something that thousands upons thousands of people have enjoyed of one of the highlights of their lives. Then let's remove every single bolt in Yosemite so we're not being hypocritical, right??? Appreciation of the first direct aid ascent in Yosemite, bah who needs it!
reconnecense -noun
quick, intuitive knowledge of route finding
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Ranger Dan
Mountain climber
Mariposa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2010 - 04:23pm PT
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Correction:
As a part of the mandatory "range or alternatives" that must be considered when doing an Environmental Assessment (EA) one alternative that will likely be explored will be the removal of the Half Dome cables. Listing the cables on the National Register of Historic Places would not preclude this outcome, but the National Historic Preservation Act (NHPA) would require additional mitigations if this is the direction that the park chooses to go.
However, I should preface all of this by saying that it is very early in the EA process and the park is far from reaching a decision. One very important component of the EA process is "public scoping" which is the public's chance to weigh in on management issues. In fact, we are in the middle of public scoping for the Half Dome Trail Stewardship EA right now. Based on the level of interest that my post generated, I bet that many supertopo forum users would like to have their voice heard in regards to this plan:
Yosemite National Park Extends Public Scoping Period Regarding Visitor Use on Trails Leading to Half Dome and the Half Dome Cables
Yosemite National Park announces the extension of the public scoping period for visitor use on the trail leading to Half Dome and the Half Dome cables. The scoping period has been extended to July 6, 2010. The public is invited to submit written ideas regarding a long term plan for visitor use on the Half Dome cables. The purpose of the plan will be to provide for the long-term stewardship of Half Dome in a manner that is consistent with the 1964 Wilderness Act and the National Park Service Organic Act.
An interim program is currently in place for the 2010 and 2011 summer season that requires a permit to ascend the Half Dome cables on Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays. Yosemite National Park will be monitoring visitor use on the Half Dome cables, as well as the Mist Trail and portions of the John Muir Trail leading up to Half Dome, in order to assess the effectiveness of the interim program.
Specifically, the plan will:
 Institute appropriate management that will protect and enhance the natural and cultural environment of the area around Half Dome
Establish appropriate conditions along the trails leading up to the Half Dome cables
Public participation is integral for the success of this plan. To submit comments on this topic, the public can contact the park by the following means:
Mail: Superintendent
Attn: Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan
P.O. Box 577
Yosemite, CA 95389
Fax: 209-379-1294
Visit the park website and link to PEPC website: http://www.nps.gov/yose/parkmgmt/hdp_comment.htm
To find out more about the Half Dome Trail Stewardship Plan please visit http://www.nps.gov/yose/parkmgmt/planning.htm .
Again, thanks for all of your help and interest. I just got back from two days of Half Dome field work a few hours ago and should have my pics (and preliminary findings) posted early next week.
Danny
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jstan
climber
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3 to 3 1/2 inches.
Tami got it right again.
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Larry
Trad climber
Bisbee
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Fet, I hope you don't think I advocated the removal of the cables. I just thought the Park Service sorta wanted to, what with their focus on safety and all.
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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I commented at there website...:)
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Well, at Scuffy's suggestion, I went to my beloved xrez just now (http://www.xrez.com/yose_proj/yose_deepzoom/index.html); and could not find any rust streaks. But the vantage point of that particular camera setting is awfully far away, so no surprise.
I guess too that the present-day ladder thingy could be right on top of his work, maybe.
At any rate, looking carefully at the HDump shoulder, George Anderson's holes have to be within a very narrow perimeter of the existing elephant train--- the scope of possibility is limited there for a 19th century project. It shouldn't be too hard to find some of the drillings. Hard to believe also that no one has done this before now.....??
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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The Phimster Proctor ascent a year or so after the avalanche took out Andersons cables is one of the most remarkable climbing adventures ever written about. Basically two cowboys, with no climbing experience, but experts in rope throwing managed to get to the top on the remains of Andersons cables. I have a copy of the book that Proctor wrote. If you have trouble getting one, e-mail me at: aspendougy@gmail.com, and I can lend you my copy.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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It would be really cool to find those holes
OT, if you don't move to have the cables declared 'rustic' or whatever would they declare them litter, and take take them down?
Think carefully about this.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Doubt that the Cables will ever go away. How about two? One up, one down.
One on each side. Shorter hike if it was on the south face.
Historical significance.
Significant usage.
Predates the wilderness act.
Even a trash pit that is 25 years or older is historical and can not be disturbed. Or is it 50 years? Either way.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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This George Anderson was AWAY ahead of his time!
Really fascinating story, and remarkable individual.
Looking forward to seeing his original 'line' up South(Half)Dome.
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Ranger Dan
Mountain climber
Mariposa, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2010 - 12:06pm PT
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Cool quote related to the Half Dome Cables taken from A. Phimister Proctor's "A Ascent of Half Dome in 1884":
There are times in a young man's life that a great experience changes it. Those two days on Half Dome were for me the divide between careless youth and serious manhood.
It seems most probable that George Anderson's route up Half Dome follows very closely to the present alignment of the Half Dome Cables.
At this point, I would say that it is a little short of conclusive, but it appears that Anderson's route followed very closely the alignment of the Half Dome cables.
Thanks for all your help!
Danny
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Awesome History Detectives work!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Yes, very cool. I can't wait to look for the holes the next time I'm up there.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nice job, Danny. That's for sharing the pics with us!
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Chris Wegener
Trad climber
St. John, Virgin Islands
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I have found going up and down the cables to be non trivial. I can't imagine doing while the rock is wet. All of the feet have made the rock Slick!
I can not see any reason to remove the cables. As others have pointed out it can be a highlight of someone's life to go up and down.
As a sidelight I have been told of Royal Robbins walking down next to the cables without using them. Anybody else want to try?
Regards,
Chris
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gunsmoke
Trad climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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The day before this thread was started I ascended the cables looking for evidence of Anderson's ascent. Given the 45 minutes it took for the elephant line to push me to the top, I had plenty of opportunity to look. We know that Anderson began work from the high point of a previous attempt which had relied on natural features. It seems to me that this previous attempt probably began along a flake system just right of the cables. However, higher up the better system of flakes and natural features is to the left. The cables are, of course, a direttissima. Since Anderson was trying to take advantage of natural features, as evidenced by his statement of climbing up to twenty feet before resuming drilling, I speculate that Anderson began to the right of the current cables and crossed the cable route, ending up to the left. I think it is unlikely that he strictly stuck to the route of the 1919 cables (which is the same route as today). I looked for holes, but there are so many holes from previous cable installations (as many as four in a square foot in some places) that it would be a CSI project to figure out which ones were Anderson's. Also, I wonder if cable installations might have redrilled some of Anderson's holes to a larger diameter. Dan, would it be possible to get a metal sample from your suspected bolt and compare it with the known extant bolt? As an aside, before climbing Half Dome Anderson drilled his way up Mount Starr King. There may be some of Anderson's eye bolts still in place there.
Edit
I would suggest a rappel alongside the cables looking for evidence of Anderson that is not on the 3 foot wide path of the cables.
A hardness test on the two steel bolts would be an relatively non-invasive way to see if they are of the same vintage.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Gunsmoke- the mystery is on. To Starr King!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Thanks for sharing the photos, Dan. Fun puzzle/project!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 10, 2010 - 12:36pm PT
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An Ed Cooper shot of the cables from The Vertical World of Yosemite by Galen Rowell.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 11, 2010 - 12:47pm PT
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From Galen Rowell's wonderful 100th anniversary release of John Muir's seminal work, The Yosemite, one of my favorite bits of South Dome history!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 16, 2010 - 09:12pm PT
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Spectre of the Bumpin'...
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Alexander P. Proctor's grandson (whew!)
climber
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Jul 24, 2010 - 05:45pm PT
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Knowing granddad (An Ascent of Half Dome in 1884) I'd say he filled the original holes with Bazooka bubblegum but as such didn't exist back then I will profess to drawing blanks.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jul 24, 2010 - 05:56pm PT
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Wow!!
Welcome grandson!
Another luminary joins us!
Ever do any climbing kiddo?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 24, 2010 - 07:27pm PT
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Welcome illustrious grandson!
Did Phimister keep any bits of hardware or draw any of what he found while reestablishing the ropes? The one sketch done from memory is all that I have ever seen relating to this ascent.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 25, 2010 - 01:29am PT
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First Ranger Dan - what a classic name! Then Phimister Proctor's grandson.
Presumably Moses will be along soon.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 25, 2010 - 01:33am PT
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With his latest keyhole hanger design! LOL
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| Messages 1 - 44 of total 44 in this topic |
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