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D'Wolf
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 8, 2010 - 11:43pm PT
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GF needs a set and I could use a new set (my Petzls' are 13 years old, but actually still appear in good shape).
Looked at the new Petzl. Don't care for that "ergo" design; forces me to put my hand where I don't really want it, and the cam trigger hurts my thumb, what with that pointed thing on the end (waaaaahhhhh!). GF can't even reach the cam trigger (small hands).
BD looks kinda cool. A little funky to get used to the cam trigger, but seems pretty functional. Lots of moving parts though; makes 'em suspect. GF can actually reach the cam trigger though, so she's leaning toward them.
Haven't used CMI's. Don't know much about them. Look very similar to my old-style Petzls.
Anyone have a favorite brand? Pros, cons? Any input?
Cheers,
Thom
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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clog
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D'Wolf
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 9, 2010 - 12:14am PT
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Clog. Well, I guess I knew that but was thinking more along the lines of ascenders I could ACTUALLY OBTAIN Jaybro, you knucklehead.
(I forgot the types I'm dealing with here!)
Just kidding Jaybro; no offense meant. I recall those but haven't seen any around for awhile. Didn't include them in my list as I didn't think anyone would actually mention them. Seriously, they're not still around, are they?
Cheers,
Thom
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Anybody's hands can handle the ones on the right
and they're super-light! :-)
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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yellow jumars. Currently on ebay.
A really good fit for smaller hands.
CMI wouldn't be a bad option.
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apogee
climber
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I loved my Clogs.
Siiiigggggghhhhhh.
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Prod
Trad climber
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I'd say a short guy with long arms and a strong midsection would most likely make the best ascender?
Other than that I have both Petzl and Jumars. I prefer the Yellow Jumars. You can usually find these on Ebay.
Prod.
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D'Wolf
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 9, 2010 - 10:11am PT
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Ed:
I checked the gear reviews prior to posting, but they only reviewed Petzl and BD, which I'm already familiar with. Looking for other possible options and/or opinions.
I've always liked the Petzls, but IMO the new trigger design sucks (suppose I could sand down that pointy knob), as does the "ergo" handle.
CMI looks okay, but some say they don't seem to grab as well (cams have rounded "grabs" vs downward slanting, pointed "grabs"), which could be an issue in glacier situations(?)
Possible CMI small ultrascender for the GF; anyone used these?
Decisions, decisions.
Cheers,
Thom
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Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
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I have a pair of the new petzel ascenders and I like them. The trigger is a little tricky to manipulate at first but you get use to it and I see it as a bit of a safety feature especially when you are several hundred feet up or more. Had a chance to play around with the BD N Force ones at Yosemite Mountain Shop guy came in and said he was ready to throw his in the trash. Lots of mixed opinions on them thats for sure. Several say that they do take some getting use to. Interesting that these sort of fit your g friends hand as one of the things about them appears that they fit larger hands better. One thing I was told that on occasion you can pinch your finger in the trigger. While messing around with them that did happen.
I have run across decent pairs of older style petzel ascenders online and even here. Never tried the CMI ones and the older Yellow Jumars can be found now and then too. Tom Evens has one hanging from his scope that he lets people look through that is like new that I think he got off e bay. There are pros and cons to them all
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gimmeslack
Trad climber
VA
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Caving gear suppliers tend to carry a good selection of ascending gear. Innermountain and Kasrt Sports are both good. http://www.karstsports.com/ascenders.html#top
I have an older pair of russian (Ushba?) ascenders that copy the old Petzl's before they got the plastic trigger. They're much nicer with wet, gloved, slippery hands, as they have a metal post instead of a contoured plastic trigger. ymmv...
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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I've done the older Petzl's and the new BD's. Overall I find the BD's to be OK, but a little obnoxious. Just you you aren't paying attention the BD's will not grab because I pushed in slightly, and getting them on and off is a bit of a hassle at times (like inside of awkward features).
Get the petzl's, widdle off the ergo spike, and sand it down till it is like the old ones.
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D'Wolf
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 9, 2010 - 01:26pm PT
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Slakkey: actually, it's the cam trigger she can't reach. It's the left-handed, one-handed thumbing of the cam needed at times when ascending/cleaning that she just can't accomplish w/the Petzl. She has to use two hands just to put the ascenders on the rope. She can actually reach the BD trigger and pull it.
Chief: Thanks for the photos (better than CMI's); looks like the cam trigger would be pretty easy to operate one-handed. Does the point on the cam trigger interfere in anyway?
Moof: exactly what I was considering; cut off that pointy "ergo" handle thing and sand down the point on the plastic cam trigger (what was wrong with the knurled metal post?).
Thanks everyone for the input!
Cheers,
Thom
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Morgan
Trad climber
East Coast
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I really like the Petzl's. I thought the plastic thumb trigger release would really bother me, but it hasn't been a big deal at all. The one thing I do wish is that they had two legitimate carabiner holes at the bottom like the CMI ascenders do. Instead they have a mini hole that accepts a maillon or some cord and one real carabiner hole. Since my aider/daisy is on a carabiner in the one hole, when I clip a second carabiner to that to keep the jug from popping off the rope (following traverses for example) it works, but seems less than optimal.
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GoMZ
Trad climber
Eastern Sierra
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Although they will all probably work fine, I personally do not like the Petzl ascenders (too reachy to disengage). I have CMIs like the bottom photo that the Cheif posted (mine are all black though) they are bomber, and have been up several Elcap routes.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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I've never found a good reason to switch from my gray Jumars!
Like them more than the yellow Jumars, or any Petzls, CMIs, and Clogs that I have tried.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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You could always buy a set of the older Petzels you like. I think that my #1 choice would be the grey Jumars like Clint says. I have the grey and the yellows and like the greys better. I bought the yellows cause the greys were so beat up, but heavier doesn't = better or we'd all have those awesome Yates ascenders, which are very strong. Make sure they Grey Jumars are slung correctly, you can search ST for the information, my memory says that both Clint and Peter Haan had super great posts on that thread.
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Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedr Woolley, WA
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Still going STRONG!
Thor
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Fuzzywuzzy
climber
suspendedhappynation
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Clint -
What is the difference between the Grey and the Yellow?
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Scott Cole
Trad climber
Sunny California
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
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I'm still runnin the Clog Expeditions (stamped 1982). Many thousand of feet on wet dry and icy ropes, and I'm still alive. Finally changed the slings after 25 years, so they are good as new.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:18pm PT
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Petzl
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:34pm PT
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Still waiting the Rock Thompson ascender of perfection....
If you can find an old pair of clog ascenders they are kindest to the hands.
if you are talking about her jugging a long, long way you might consider a caving 3 point set up instead of the traditional climbers 2. takes longer to get into, but, way faster to jug 300 feet with that setup.
Edit: and more gear trivia, Jumars were designed and manufactured by Walter Marti in der Schweitz. There were two versions, regular, and with carbide inserts to resist the wear of dirty rope in caves.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:48pm PT
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CMI's, strongest out there and no funky gimmiks. I had a pair of yellow jumars, but sold them to a friend. I'm sure I never would have broken them, but when the option is a much stronger piece of gear with no downside, that's what I'll opt for.
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 12, 2010 - 01:30am PT
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Caution about older Clog ascenders:
Inspect your old Clog Ascenders for defective pins!
There was a design defect of the main axle pin. The pin serves to hold the cam to the frame of the ascender. Check to see what type of pin your ascenders have. You may have the bad pins, which apparently relied on a press fit (tension fit) to retain position. The tension fit would fail, and the pin would creep outward. It looks to me that complete failure would occur after the pin "walks" out of the hole by only 3 mm.
The new style pin is like a rivet which has been bucked on the tail end (expanded to a significantly larger diameter than the hole).
I discovered the flaw while jugging 1,000' above Cañón del Tajo. After every three or four steps, I had to tap the pin back into place, using a carabiner. By the time the new route was completed, both ascenders suffered the same failure. REI exchanged them for a new pair with the corrected pins. So, Clog must have changed pin types sometime before the year 2000.
See Thorgon's photo (above) for the faulty pin style.
Below is a picture of my replacement Clogs with the corrected, pin style.
Btw, I like the comfort and design, and have confidence in them.
This same defect was experienced by "Mimi":
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=824216&msg=824410#msg824410
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Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedr Woolley, WA
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Jun 12, 2010 - 11:02am PT
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Thanks for the heads up JM; certainly will address the issue!
Climb strong,
Thor
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