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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 23, 2010 - 04:45pm PT
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The first time was about 6 years ago. Now it’s happened again. I have what looks like really bad poison oak, but I got it in Joshua Tree.
It came on fast and hard, a festering weeping rash on one leg, abdomen and one arm. I’ll spare you any pictures. Got so bad yesterday I ran down to the ER. Its not shingles.
Diagnosis: contact dermatitis. But contact with what?
Both incidents occurred in the same month of April. There is no poison oak in Joshua Tree.
They gave me a shot in the ass of steroids, I am taking MethylPrednizone and Benadryl. Looks like I’ll live…
Any of you medical types or plant experts have an idea about what this could be?
Thanks,
(Itchy, messy) Kris
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 23, 2010 - 04:56pm PT
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Poodledog maybe? Though it doesn't seem like a plant that would thrive at Josh.
You been hiking above Monrovia? In an old burn area? Poodledog comes after a fire, a lot of folks are allergic to it.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 23, 2010 - 05:06pm PT
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you been only in Josh for the last several days?
how about any dogs or old laundry you've been in touch with in the last several days that may have exposure to PO?
good luck mang
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2010 - 05:09pm PT
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99% sure the exposure was in Josh. Probably Future Games area.
Pate, this one did not involve a woman. You made me laugh though, right now I'll thank you for that.
Poodledog? I'll look it up.
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Tan Slacks
climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 23, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
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Kris,
This may not be the case for you, but my daughter has a severe reaction to "pin cushion" out here. It strikes her every spring. This spring is very bad for that plant. We are able to control her break outs with prescription topical ointments. I have never seen anything like it until I saw it on my daughter.
Good luck, whatever it is.
Tan
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Anxious Melancholy
Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
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Apr 23, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
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Sumac
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 23, 2010 - 05:22pm PT
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Poodledog:
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2010 - 05:24pm PT
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Tan I think you are onto something. I just googled that plant and looked at pictures. I was taking close up shots of those things on Sunday, they are all over the place up there right now.
Interesting, the scientific name is scabiosa columbara. Apparently this plant is alleged to have curative powers for itching. Not on me, the way it looks...
edit: Thanks Gary. I don't recall seeing any of that out there.
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adam d
climber
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Apr 23, 2010 - 06:39pm PT
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By, "Pincushion" do you mean one of the phacelias? I forget exactly the name of it (and haven't found it in a brief search) but one of the phacelias in the park can bring on poison oak like rashes in some people.
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Brian
climber
California
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Apr 23, 2010 - 06:44pm PT
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Ksolem,
Ouch. Hope you heal quickly.
Not to thread drift, but I got on Seizure last weekend and just want to congratulate you on a great little route. It's really freakin hard! I couldn't get close on the crux move by the 4th bolt, and had some real trouble getting up to the 3rd. Well done!
Also, Hang 'em High at Future Games is superb.
Thanks for the very fine routes.
Brian
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2010 - 07:06pm PT
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These pics are from Future Games area Sunday. I looked at Pincushion on line - it seems that flower has a lot of different varieties. Some look similar to this:
Google of Phacelia got me California Bluebell. I was crawling around in those getting pics of a pair of chuckwallas.
Brian, glad yopu enjoy those routes. Thanks for the kind words. You must be a glutton for punishment! Ever check out that Games Without Frontiers on Future Games? Paul Borne got in a good one there.
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matty
Trad climber
los arbor
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Apr 23, 2010 - 07:11pm PT
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Hey Kris, I feel your pain, I got a lil PO last week bouldering, and I usually get it BAD, luckily I had to cross the stream several times so it mostly washed off my legs. Been to hospital before, shots etc... Hope you feel better soon.
Matt
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 23, 2010 - 07:11pm PT
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Geez Kris, sounds like what I get when I see big runouts but I know you're not susceptible to that. Heal up!
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Brian
climber
California
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Apr 23, 2010 - 07:13pm PT
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I think "Games" is beyond me given that it is in the same league as "Seizure"--and I couldn't really do that route justice. Brilliant moves, but a bit above my grade right now! Maybe one day...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2010 - 07:18pm PT
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I Googled Phacelia allergy... There are tons of scientific articles on this subject. Here's the abstract from one:
The major contact allergen of Phacelia crenulata (Hydrophyllaceae) has been identified as geranylhydroquinone. A maximization test of geranylhydroquinone showed this to be a potent sensitizer comparable in degree to poison oak/ivy urushiol. Comparative patch testing on humans with urushiol established that the phacelia allergen does not cross-react with poison oak or ivy.
Yeah Jan, I was crawling around in those bastards...
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Apr 23, 2010 - 07:23pm PT
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Well at least you know what to avoid in the future.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 23, 2010 - 09:06pm PT
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hey there, ksolem... say, glad to see you solved the mystery... now, next time, you will have victory... :)
take care, hope you are better soon...
god bless...
:)
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Apr 23, 2010 - 11:14pm PT
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Yikes Kris- who knew??? Good to know the Phacelia is probably the culprit. I pretty much get contact dermatitis from everything under the sun and Mr. E goes totally systemic with PO so I think we will both stay clear. I've been out there every weekend but I haven't touched any of those.
Get well soon
Skip
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Apr 24, 2010 - 02:06am PT
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Anyone remember Datura? Had a friend go blind, (for luckily a limited amount of time,) but it definitely was no fun for him...
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bob
climber
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Apr 24, 2010 - 10:17am PT
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Kris, I've had some similar reactions in Josh as well. The most recent I blamed it on my girlfriends backpack because she's from Santa Cruz. I figured P. Oak musta been all over the pack for the odd reactions I was getting seemed like something I wouldn't find in Jtree. Or haven't found.
Someone also mentioned to me, because I told them I was in the Sea of Cortez the week before, that maybe I had some brushes with jellyfish probably small enough that I didn't feel it and then a lot of times those reactions itch up later in many people. Me being one of them. It looked like I walked through Poison Oak, or swam through a bunch of Agua Mala.
Other note: Hang em High is bad ass, as well as seizure and I couldn't get up either of them. Hang em High has a move up top that just thwarted me. I was with a strong mo fo and he struggled. Seemed very techy? Good sh#t. Seizure was made easier by the amount of skin I left thus creating larger holds, at least for a little while!
Get over the itchies and put up more great routes!
Peace
Bob J.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2010 - 02:47pm PT
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FWIW When Gary suggested the Poodle Dog bush as a possible culprit he was closer than he might have known.
The allergen in the California Bluebell (Phalecia Campanularia) foliage is referred to in a paper on the subject I googled up in ScienceDirect as “a novel derivative of farnesyl hydroquinone.”
Then in a Wiki discussion of the same substance I found this:
“Farnesyl hydroquinone derivatives are the principal irritants exuded by the poodle-dog bush, which can cause severe contact dermatitis in humans.”
So here’s one of the little devils out at Future Games area last week.
I’ve read that the sensitivity is acquired by exposure over time, so if you’ve been trekking around Josh for a few years like I have you might not want to roll around in a bed of these. It’s way worse than any PO I’ve ever had, and after four days on Prednisone I’m starting to look like William Shatner.
edit: It's the foliage not the flower which contains the allergen, so I am going to learn to recognise that bugger by the leaf...
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 26, 2010 - 11:19am PT
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Who'd a thunk bluebells would be the culprit? You learn something new everyday.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2010 - 11:46am PT
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A buddy of mine sent me a link to Todd Gordon's site. If you scroll down the list of flowers you'll find a warning about this possibility there. He calls 'em Canterbury Bells.
One week post exposure, day 5 on prednisone, still oozing but up and around. Way worse than poison oak.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 26, 2010 - 12:00pm PT
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Dude, are you sure the breakout didn't occur after watching your Sabres go down in double OT?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
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That, and watching the King's go through two goalies in game five in Vacouver sure didn't help... Talk about getting schooled.
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tinker b
climber
the commonwealth
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Jun 11, 2010 - 12:24am PT
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shit that must be what i got this winter. i have a big scar from the infection on my ankle. i think i got it in the wonderland. my friend who is a p.a. kept insisting it couldn't be from a plant since i have cruised around jtree for so many years. i guess he was wrong.
i caught it in the end of december. it took me three weeks to get rid of it sans drugs. i tried a bunch of natural remedies...
pine sap was the worst idea, tea tree oil worked the best.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2010 - 12:48am PT
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Yeah I have scarring on my shin and one side of my abdomen from this. It is evil, waaaay worse than poison oak. The alllergen is in the leaves, not the flower so even when it is not flowering it can get you.
From what I have seen and read, it does not grow much in the higher parts of Josh, rather in the 3000 to 3500 ft range like split rocks area where I got it. Where were you in the wonderland?
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Jun 11, 2010 - 01:27am PT
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Got an old story of a famous climber's famous brother having an epic with Datura...
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Jun 11, 2010 - 01:32am PT
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let's see pictures of the rash, yo!
I once got 2nd hand PO from a thermarest that had been in the garage for over a year.
Best supertopo quote of the week:
"and after four days on Prednisone I’m starting to look like William Shatner"
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tinker b
climber
the commonwealth
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Jun 11, 2010 - 11:48am PT
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i walked from hidden valley campground down to indian cove through the wonderland and down rattlesnake canyon. i didn't really take the path of least resistance...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2010 - 12:14pm PT
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Sorry I didn't take any pictures. Putting pictures of really gross stuff on the web is not my thing - especially when the grossness is on me...
You can visualize though. It starts as a rash, but by day two it is big weeping blisters you might think were second degree burns.
Yeah if you went down to Indian Cove you went right through the zone. The first time I got in the stuff I went up out of Indian Cove, same general area.
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tinker b
climber
the commonwealth
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Jun 11, 2010 - 05:00pm PT
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oh good i am glad the weeping blisters were supposed to happen, i put pine sap on the rash, and that was when the blisters started to really ooze. i guess it would have happened anyway. then when they got infected i soaked them in warm water with tea tree oil and that cleared it up in a few days, or at least the pain went away.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2010 - 05:35pm PT
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Tinker you are totally hard core. I wimped out and went to the ER, where the Doc took one look at me and ran a culture for necrotic bacteria. Once that nasty possibility was ruled out they gave me a big shot of something in the ass and a bunch of rhoids and I got better in a week.
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TYLER ENNIS
Boulder climber
REDLANDS
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Sep 22, 2017 - 01:21pm PT
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Hey guys,
I know this thread is pretty old, but I believe I just got the same crap out in Indian Cove last weekend. Its been about 5 days now with no treatment and I gotta say today is pretty rough. I was wondering if I should go into the ER, or if anyone had experience with just dealing with it until it passed? Or if there is anything I can do to get it away from me sooner?
Cheers!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 22, 2017 - 01:33pm PT
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Even if it isn't an emergency the bill from going to an Emergency Room will create one.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Sep 22, 2017 - 01:35pm PT
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Poodledog maybe? Though it doesn't seem like a plant that would thrive at Josh.
You been hiking above Monrovia? In an old burn area? Poodledog comes after a fire, a lot of folks are allergic to it.
Don't think Poodledog bush grows in Joshua Tree.
I got a rash from poodledog bush while mountain biking. Nasty stuff. I didn't know what it was at first. Tried treating with Calamine lotion, and taking benadryl. I then read that treating the rash with cold running water helps. It did seem to work.
Yeah, the poddledog bush proliferated after the Station fire.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Sep 22, 2017 - 02:04pm PT
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I know this thread is pretty old, but I believe I just got the same crap out in Indian Cove last weekend. Its been about 5 days now with no treatment and I gotta say today is pretty rough. I was wondering if I should go into the ER, or if anyone had experience with just dealing with it until it passed? Or if there is anything I can do to get it away from me sooner?
If it is bad, go get some prednisone. Whether you get it from your doc or an urgent care facility doesn't matter. Just don't wait too long or you will end up with scaring from the stuff.
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TYLER ENNIS
Boulder climber
REDLANDS
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Sep 22, 2017 - 02:11pm PT
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Wrong choice of words, I mean my "doctor".
Anyways, any tips would be cool. I would rather avoid going that route, but like I said today seemed to get pretty rough. It started out on my legs and I was thinking it was just maybe some bug bites originally. Now it is on my arms and I am seeing small signs of the blistering. Not to mention my arms and legs feel as if I got full sleeve tattoos that I can't itch.
I saw that Tea Tree Oil helped so I'm gonna swing by and grab some today to see how that goes first.
I guess I'm just more curious if I should expect this to get worse if I didn't go to the docs.
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Friend
climber
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Sep 22, 2017 - 02:45pm PT
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I've had what Kris is talking about several times after exposure in Josh and climbing around San diego. My experience has been 2-3 weeks of sheer agony or an $8 rx for prednisone, available from your family doctor, and it clears up in 2 days.
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TYLER ENNIS
Boulder climber
REDLANDS
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Sep 22, 2017 - 02:56pm PT
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Doctors it is haha
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Sep 22, 2017 - 02:59pm PT
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Poodledogs are people too!
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Sep 22, 2017 - 06:41pm PT
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Was stinging nettle considered in all the mentions of possible culprits?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 22, 2017 - 07:56pm PT
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Five days later and you're still thinking it's a EMERGENCY???...
When I was five daze in it was a full on emergency. Agonizing. It took a couple days to really symptomize, and two more before it was clear to me that it just going to keep getting worse without treatment. Even after I got on the Prednizone it took two courses.
You know not what of you speak.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 23, 2017 - 02:28am PT
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Something like 35 years ago, I noticed a mild poison oak like disturbance around my ankles, which showed up while being a resident denizen of B-Loop.
Didn't give it much thought until some of the old-school reunions and Todd Gordon benefits, from 2006 through 2011, when I came away from a couple of those events with something like poison oak.
Now, nothing quite so serious as what Kris has experienced, but still, I thought it was funky and surprising, if not highly undesirable.
Leslie Dittli suggested it was from Phacelia. And I checked in on this thread when it first started.
 Question: is there something that the botanists could tell us about this having become more virulent in recent decades? Subtle, regional climactic changes perhaps?
Or is it just that as we age, some of us become more susceptible to allergens in general?
Again, from Wikipedia:
[The major contact allergen of Phacelia crenulata has been identified as geranylhydroquinone.]
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Stephen McCabe
Trad climber
near Santa Cruz, CA
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Sep 23, 2017 - 01:07pm PT
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Some people react more strongly the more times they are exposed to an allergen. See bee sting info. It is not necessarily that the source is changing, just your body's reaction to it. Cortisone cream helps for mild skin reactions. A small number of people are allergic to agaves and yuccas. Once stabbed by the spines, those people get more of a reaction than one would expect from just a puncture wound. A student at the garden I worked at took two to three weeks to recover from a simple stab wound from an agave even though there was no infection, just the allergy.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 23, 2017 - 01:38pm PT
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Stephen,
Thanks for your response. The thing is, concerning exposure, I was in Joshua Tree every single winter, nearly every weekend, if not living there full-time, from 1977 through 1989. That's lots of exposure, and never did I have the kind of reaction I received during my three day visits in 2006, 2008, 2009, and 2011.
See what I'm getting at?
That's why I'm thinking it has, in my case, perhaps more to do with susceptibility to allergens related to age, as distinct from exposure.
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Stephen McCabe
Trad climber
near Santa Cruz, CA
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Sep 23, 2017 - 11:42pm PT
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Tarbuster, My expertise is with plants, rather than allergies. I don’t think the plants have changed or not noticeably.
I have limited experience with stinging phacelias, stinging lupines, and nettles, though I have gotten a reaction from all three.
There are about 19 species (including subspecies) of Phacelia in my crude mapping of Joshua Tree N.P. using Calflora’s “What Grows Here” feature. On one JT trip, it seemed that every time my wife asked, “what is that flower?” it was another species of Phacelia. Phacelia crenulata, which does cause poison oak-like dermatitis, has 3 subspecies reported in JT. More than one species of Phacelia can produce the rash. The species with glandular hairs are perhaps most likely to produce the reaction, according to one source. On Calflora it does not appear that poodledog bush, Eriodictyon parryi, is present in the park. I’ve bushwhacked through Eriodictyon trichocalyx, which does grow in the park, without any problem. The bushwhacking was in the San Bernadinos, actually, but still E. trichocalyx.
I don’t know about aging and its relation to allergies. Sorry I can’t provide much insight on your particular situation.
People used to say keep babies away from peanuts to prevent the allergies. Now the guidelines are to expose babies to nuts to reduce chance of later allergies. People are still learning about allergies and I’m no expert.
People have taken small doses of poison oak to reduce reaction to poison oak. However, the packages warned against getting exposed to poison oak until the treatment was finished or the reaction to poison oak might be worse.
When I had a bad case of poison oak that was just going away and had a minor re-exposure and then the rash became really bad. When I had a dog that went through poison oak every week and I probably got regular tiny doses, I didn’t seem to get poison oak as bad over the 14 years we had the dog.
Did being away for so long make things worse for you?
I’ve heard from people who have had their poison oak reactions go from nothing to bad or bad to nothing over the years. Go figure. In high school, I got poison oak a second time from my tennis shoes that I had put away for a month or so in a locker. We had only swimming for that month, so I didn’t use the shoes. The oils must have still been on the shoes at the end of the swimming section of PE.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 24, 2017 - 08:55am PT
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Did being away for so long make things worse for you? Yes, among the potential scenarios, and using our critical thinking skills, we do have to ask after that one, don't we? Meaning, I may have phased out of my adaptation.
Well, thanks, the plant guy has spoken.
I’ve heard from people who have had their poison oak [and ivy] reactions go from nothing to bad or bad to nothing over the years. And yes, I resemble that remark as well! From bad to not quite as bad with poison oak (presumably by adaptation), and from nothing with poison ivy, to bad (haven't figured that one out).
Perhaps the opinion of an allergist or immunologist could round out a response to my query.
Thanks again, Stephen.
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