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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Apr 10, 2010 - 11:57pm PT
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once there were enough interested people in the burgeoning town
Which town was that?
Nice thread-thanks,
Arne
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BooYah
Social climber
Ely, Nv
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:12am PT
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I LIKE this Tami Gal.
You Rock, Tami.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:17am PT
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The history as presented goes back to the late 19th century, with snippets of earlier things - explorers, First Peoples, etc. But the main part starts in the early 1900s. If I understand correctly, when the BCMC formed in mid-1907, the members had heard of the invention of the Alpine Club of Canada the previous year. But the ACC (later the Airborne Climbers of Canada) had negligible presence on the coast until the later 1920s, when a faction splintered off from the BCMC. It may be more complicated, and involve personalities and issues lost in the depths of time. Perhaps Tricouni can elaborate. (He was there today.)
As Tami observes, often here climbing to the clouds can be accomplished by ascending a flight of stairs, if that.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 11, 2010 - 02:17am PT
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isn't it also a sorta rip off of the Conrad Kain biography title: Where the Clouds Can Go, or was that just Conrad being a bit peevish with the editors?
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 11, 2010 - 02:56am PT
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It probably ain't worth a fek if there wasn't something there about Hatten's Hammer.:^)
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Apr 11, 2010 - 10:23am PT
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Anders: Thanks for posting the link.
I am always curious when I look at most current museum offerings, including this one.
Do the museum directors believe the people that go to their museum all have A.D.D. (Attention Deficit Disorder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADHD_predominantly_inattentive )
Or do the museum directors all have A.D.D.?
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Chief
climber
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Apr 11, 2010 - 11:23am PT
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Thanks for the post Mighty.
At what point do we become museum pieces?
Currently poring over the Munday's exploits in the Waddington Range.
Don and Phyllis were BAD ASS MOUNTAINEERS and harder than nails.
What a legacy!
Tami, yer a most loveable wingnut.
bk, nice job on your letter to the Pique, when do we get together for scotch?
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Chief
climber
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Apr 11, 2010 - 11:37am PT
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forager,
Those guys have me inspired to plan a trip to the Wadd next spring.
Self propelled from Coola/Scar shoulder to Buckler/Spearman/Wadd shoulder.
The road from the beach to Scar has just been repaired and Rob Wood and I are trying to wrangle a "Gaitor" and a work crew to clean up the access from the Scar Camp to the top of the Scar Ridge. Trying to make this part of this year's Butefest. Looking for dedicated keeners up for a summer adventure.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Apr 11, 2010 - 11:51am PT
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ah, i finally get it. Foweraker -> forager ->food eater
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:46pm PT
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anders, thanks for the link.
fritz-- museum visitors (esp. on the web) DO have ADD. most writing on/for the web now is aimed at about a 6th grade reading level, which is still a bit above what we mostly get here on old ivy-covered ST.
This Climbing to the Clouds site is actually fairly old-skool, aside from the Google-Earth interactive pages: it has mini-essays, a linear chronology, and an overarching (and didactic) storyline. each of those features offers to antagonize huge chunks of the museum audience, let alone the folks in the tubes.
i thought the davidson segment was the best done. it'd work fine with the 5th to 9th graders.
as a historian, i'd really like to have seen a page or at least usable links on the actual sources used to make the site, like a resource page for teachers.
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 11, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
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Looks like killer ski conditions up there right now ... Tanatalus range yesterday from the highway pullout
Click image for a much higher quality view
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 11, 2010 - 02:28pm PT
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Bruce Kay you are living the life .... looks good out there
Click image for higher resolution
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 11, 2010 - 02:54pm PT
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Tami:
C'mon Anders , cough up the REAL REASON the BCMC formed as the Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition to the Alpine Club of Canada - formed in 1906.
Wasn't it a hissy fit about a CABIN on Grouse Mtn? Oh, did I use the "C" word in the COAST RANGE ?!? We Don't Like Cabins ; Those Are For The Rockies ( Where Climbers Are Soft )
AFAIK, the BCMC formed before the Vancouver Section of the ACC, perhaps a couple of years before. Cabins were a big part of the BCMC, right from the beginning. There were various cabins on Grouse from pre-1900, even. Certainly the early days of the BCMC revolved around the cabin, weekends at the cabin, and trips from the north shore to the local hills. It was hard to get anywhere else: after the old roads were abandoned, even the Lions were a 3-day trip up the Capilano, unless you had a boat. Whistler area? Forget it. Chilliwack valley? Week's expedition.
The hissy fit (and that's what it was)came about in late 1926. At two General Meetings of the BCMC there were motions debated / passed / defeated regarding censure of one of the members of the executive, almost certainly Tom Fyles, who held the position of "Director", regarding his somewhat dictatorail leaderhship of club trips. The upshot was that "The Director immediately rose and resigned his membership in the Club, and the following members of the Executive then followed his example: J.H Speer, W.G. Wheatley, R.E. Knight, N.M. Carter, B.C. Cayley, and W.E. Martin."
The loss of Tom Fyles and Neal Carter was a great blow to the club, because they (together with the Mundays) were among the club's strongest, most active climbers. It was this event that gave great impetus to the local section of the ACC. Don and Phy Munday remained members of both clubs, and eventually in the 1930s let their memberships in the BCMC lapse.
This detailed reasons for the split were eventually forgotten, and no record of them exists in the BCMC minutes for the day,which are not to be found in the club archives. The two clubs continued to hold some joint trips, and many members belonged to both clubs.
When I joined the BCMC in 1959, I found it very welcoming to teenagers. I inquired whether the Alpine Club took young teenagers on trips; never did hear back from them, and my friends in the BCMC discouraged me from joining the ACC, even though my uncle was a member of the ACC. So I fell into the company of Dick Culbert, Tim Auger, Arnold Shives, Martin & Esther Kafer (the Kafers were in both clubs), Dick Chambers, Paul Binkert, Roy Mason, and the like. So today, some people are in the BCMC, some in the ACC, and some in both. Which one has had, collectively, the stronger group of active climbers has swung back and forth over the years - currently it's probably the ACC.
Glenn Woodsworth
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:04pm PT
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Tami wrote:
Hey Anders, havin' sniffed thru the thing I find it to be most excellent but oddly incomplete. FABULOUS to see the artwork of Shives !!
I totally agree; I like his work a great deal (but I'm pretty biased).
[quoteIt's more like RANDOM history of BC mountaineering. I think they missed out big stories like Slesse ( the first ascent, FWA, the airplane crash, NE Buttress, et'c ) to name one.
For sure. I hope they continue to build on it and deal with the last 30 years. Baldwin? Clarke? Kasian? Serl? Fairley? Croft? Foweraker? to name just a random few. The site's got great potential, but it's clear the focus will always be on the coast, which is fine with me. Another group will have to do the Interior Ranges and (shudder) the Rockies.
- Glenn (a Coast Mountains brat - always was, always will be)
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:20pm PT
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So Foweraker is history ? Such promise now gone to waste ...
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:25pm PT
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Naw, Foweraker, Serl, Baldwin aren't history yet. Are they? I guess Fairley isn't history, either, but he seems to be history in the Coast Mountains. (That's what living in Golden does to you....)
When does one become a museum-piece?
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mazamarick
Trad climber
WA
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Apr 11, 2010 - 04:26pm PT
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That must make Sinclair and Smaill history, right?
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 11, 2010 - 04:31pm PT
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Relic hominids all of them, science should be done on their DNA.
More evidence that multiple classes of ancient branches of the hominid tree are still walking amongst us. Rarely observed and often misidentified yet the legends persist.
Homo Aplinus, more study and documentation of their existence is needed to pay tribute to the species.
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Chief
climber
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Apr 11, 2010 - 06:49pm PT
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Relic Hominid?
Thanks Bruce, that explains everything. At last, I've found my tribe.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Apr 11, 2010 - 08:15pm PT
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Funny how these 'northern neighbors' threads don't seem to turn
into pissing matches even when someone gets accused of belonging
to a dead-end branch on the 'hominid' tree. Yous guys really are
different! :-D
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 11, 2010 - 11:49pm PT
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CougarLife.com = 1000 Tami's
Anders, signup now ....
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 12, 2010 - 12:57am PT
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That picture looks kinda like Bricks.
I haven't visited the virtual museum, but any attempt at telling the story of BC mountaineering by looking through the lens of club membership seems kind of silly.
BCMC? ACC? Sure, there was plenty of climbing done on club trips, but there was, and is, just as much done by climbers. Not club members, just climbers.
And about the cabin thing, Tami's probably just pissed because Rat Hall doesn't feature prominently in museum.
D
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 12, 2010 - 01:12am PT
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David, the virtual museum 'exhibit' primarily relates to the period from the late 19th century, through the 1960s and 1970s. So is somewhat oriented toward what the BCMC and ACC and their members were doing, given that they had a finger in most of what was being done during that period. Yes, there's more to the story than that, e.g. in the 1960s the energy of the baby boomers in the VOC, and the appearance of independent climbers. (Jim Baldwin may have been one of the first.) But what's there is an interesting initiative, even if a bit too club-oriented, and can be added to.
Glad to see there's some interest in this subject - I hoped there would be. It's probably impossible to satisfy anyone let alone everyone with any museum display, let alone a new-fangled virtual display, but it illustrates the sort of thing that's possible. You can't fit everything in, of course, and historiography eventually rears its head.
Just back from a full day working on a project at Squamish. Cleaning an old route on the Apron, called Slab Alley. The first route on our Apron, done in 1961 by Jim Baldwin and Tony Cousins. The current phase is to physically clean up the route, restore the existing/accepted bolts (ten total), and consider options. The idea being to recreate a moderate and reasonably manageable independent route on the Apron. The 1961 route, done in mountain boots, involved some fierce slab climbing for the time.
There's some pretty cool virtual history on the YCA site - www.yosemiteclimbing.org
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 12, 2010 - 01:37am PT
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I went with Bricks, Bob milward and pete shackleton
Wow. If you were to try to come up with three guys about whom stories could be told until the End of Days, those three would have to be at the top of the list.
I can't even begin to remember how many times Pete Shack said "Oh, I don't know. I'm really out of shape right now. No way I can climb/run/ride worth a sh#t. I don't know if I should even go out. You'll have to wait for me all day..." And then he'd just smoke me on whatever the day's adventure was. Master sandbagger.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 12, 2010 - 01:50am PT
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Ghost:
I haven't visited the virtual museum, but any attempt at telling the story of BC mountaineering by looking through the lens of club membership seems kind of silly.
BCMC? ACC? Sure, there was plenty of climbing done on club trips, but there was, and is, just as much done by climbers. Not club members, just climbers.
The virtual museum thing (in which I had no hand, didn't know about it until a week ago) is simply one window on things. It comes, in part, out of the BCMC centennial video and related research, and partly out of the fact that the museum and the BCMC both have extensive archives of photos, diaries, etc. by early BMCM members. I hope they can expand the site to include the ACC, the BCMC, the RRC, the VOC, the FSSSCC, and the unaffiliated (to use an AAC term). It's a start; we can either mock it or suggest how to improve it.
But most climbing wasn't done on club trips, not then, not now. As I said above, some people were in one club, some in another, some in both, and some in no club. Some of the best climbers didn't need the clubs: they met like-minded friends outside the clubs. Many people meet friends, learn some basic skills, and quickly outgrow the clubs.
But others (Culbert, me, Fyles, Carter, Beckey, Clarke many others) found our climbing partners through the assorted clubs. We learned basic skills and mostly moved on. Many quit the clubs; others kept up memberships but didn't take much of an active role. We may have moved on, but loyalty to the clubs can remain: the BCMC certainly changed my life, and I met my wife through the VOC. I don't think I've been on a club trip in 40 years, but I still sign my name in summit records "Glenn Woodsworth, BCMC."
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 12, 2010 - 10:04am PT
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I hope they can expand the site to include the ACC, the BCMC, the RRC, the VOC, the FSSSCC
And the Lobsters. Can't really talk about mountaineering in BC without The Red Lobsters Mountaineering Club.
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Chief
climber
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Apr 12, 2010 - 11:14am PT
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I've seldom been inspired or impressed by the "Beard Stroking, Pontificating Clubbers".
(I had an encounter with one of their senior ilk at the Lake Lovelywater hut a few years ago that left me disgusted to this day)
Hugh Burton's account of their ascent of the Cassin (Hugh apparently wore jeans over his capilene) or being chased off the North Howser by a wild lightning storm after climbing Warrior are much more inspiring examples of BC Mountaineering.
Perry
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 12, 2010 - 12:07pm PT
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I took the BCMC crevasse rescue and glacier travel course in the 70's. I think clubs perform a great service helping people get started and connect with like minded others. For those commenting above whom are "born to climb" (Homo Alipnus) clubs serve little purpose.
50 years ago the club thing would have been a much different atmosphere than today I think. Certainly the historical aspect of club archives are valuable to all.
I think this "Climbing to the clouds" should focus on the history of climbing on the coast. The rockies is already well documented. The coast historical fragments are still scattered in the attics of individuals, be they club members or not.
 http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=phyllis+munday&aq=f
A major project to collate it all.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 12, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
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I've seldom been inspired or impressed by the "Beard Stroking, Pontificating Clubbers". (I had an encounter with one of their senior ilk at the Lake Lovelywater hut a few years ago that left me disgusted to this day)
Which brings up another interesting point. While it's true that in the very early days climbing clubs had a big impact -- in the sense that club members going on club trips actually did some serious climbing -- I think it's also true that the clubs have sometimes stood in the way of climbing. Or at least, because of their stodgy atmosphere and sometimes restrictive approach, driven away many climbers. Clubs have rules, a lot of climbers hate the idea of rules being applied to climbing.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 12, 2010 - 12:12pm PT
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Chief wrote:
I've seldom been inspired or impressed by the "Beard Stroking, Pontificating Clubbers".
(I had an encounter with one of their senior ilk at the Lake Lovelywater hut a few years ago that left me disgusted to this day)
I've met plenty of that type, too, with similarly disgusting results. Oddly enough, one of the worst was at the Lake Lovelywater hut - something in the water there? And one at the Gunks.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Apr 12, 2010 - 12:51pm PT
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"Beard Stroking, Pontificating Clubbers"
Thank heavens we've none of those here!
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Chief
climber
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Apr 12, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
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My comments about the clubs was about some people in some local clubs and not mountaineering clubs in general.
One of my first trip into the mountains was with Peter Croft and a couple people on an Island Mountain Ramblers outing. It changed my and now that I think about it, Tom DeGroot had a beard and he did stroke it a lot and did pontificate.
Dave Robert's exploits with the Harvard Mountaineers stand out as early inspirations for me.
Locally, the Auger/Tate Woodsworth effort on U Wall stands out as a club effort that set the highest big wall standards of the day.
That puke at Lovelywater just happens to represent an arrogant "upper crust" mentality that stimulates my hurl reflex.
Respectfully,
PB
ps. Rudy's frikkin high!
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 12, 2010 - 01:16pm PT
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Pate 90% is a ridiculous figure. The peaks are rated by prominence on this site
The website is not a simple wiki. It is a geographic information system, organized by lat-long. This means searches are not based on placenames, they are based on geographic proximity. This is important, because hundreds of the articles involve mountains that are unnamed
http://www.bivouac.com/default.asp
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 12, 2010 - 01:32pm PT
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I was once told by Rudy Beglinger about the number of unclimbed summits in BC, both the Coastal Range and interior; he said over 90% of the peaks were unclimbed, and named with only numbers. Is that true?
Depends what you mean by a peak. There are still plenty of small summits that have never been climbed, including many with names. 90% is far too high. Plenty of small, hard pinnacles. Even a few relatively high-prominence (for the region), hard peaks remain, but you have to know where they are!
Most summits in the Coast Mtns don't have names, so people just talk about "Peak 9535" when they talk about them at all. The owners of Bivouac.com have taken to wandering around (electronically) with a big salt-and-pepper shaker full of useless names, sprinkling liberally. Don't get me started....
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MH2
climber
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Apr 12, 2010 - 01:58pm PT
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I was once a member of a club that now belongs in a museum.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 12, 2010 - 02:08pm PT
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I recently read the first volume of Royal Robbins' autobiography, To Be Brave. It's well written and interesting, mostly about his youth, framed by his solo ascent of the Leaning Tower in 1963. One interesting aspect is his introduction to mountaineering and climbing, through the boy scouts and then the Sierra Club. He has a lot of praise for the organizations and their leaders. How many of us here got started through some similar program - scouts, guides, outward bound, local clubs, etc? Even now? Yes, such groups are now usually far from the leading edge, tend to be run by older people who like to reminisce (kind of like SuperTopo), and can be conservative and stodgy. But credit where credit is due, and they've contributed a lot.
Painting clubs with a broad brush doesn't make a lot of sense. Some have somewhat reinvented themselves, too - such as the AAC, in part in response to the success of the Access Fund.
I have no more liking for being organized in my climbing by others than anyone else. But it's part of our modern world, whether it's those who manage the places we like to go to or whatever. Like it or not, climbers have to be organized and represented - that's how democracy works. The Climbers' Access Society of BC was created in 1995 for that role, to ensure there was effective representation on key issues. Being anti-organization and anti-authority as kneejerk thing is senseless, as society becomes increasingly interdependent.
the Auger/Tate Woodsworth effort on U Wall stands out as a UBC club effort As in Tim Auger, Dan Tate, Glenn Woodsworth and Hamish Mutch of the Varsity Outdoor Club, in 1966. A stout effort. Two of the four post here. Maybe someday one of them will post stories about the Cacodemon Climbing Club.
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 12, 2010 - 02:36pm PT
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Tricouni can you recommend an alternate compendium of info for BC peaks other than Bivoac.com. Paper or electronic is fine, I'm just curious and would like to do some digging around on the coast range.
Thanks
Bruce
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 12, 2010 - 02:44pm PT
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the baby-boomer generation in north america was deeply suspicious of and hostile to institutions-- everywhere and not just in climbing.
in climbing, institutions like the aac or sierra club or cac seemed sclerotic and backward and dominated by parental figures.
so most climbers privatized, creating loose, informal social groups based on friendship, geography, and interests. some of those groups endured over time, but many didn't. and the institutions the baby boomers and gen xers didn't join, grew smaller, and weaker, and lost influence.
we have a tendency to imagine that the clubs as we knew them in the 60s or 70s or 80s were always sclerotic and backward. but that's not necessarily the case. club life was far more important for climbers-- and north americans generally-- in the years before WW2. jay taylor's forthcoming history of climbing in yos shows that it was constant work and pressure from the sierra club that kept a strong faction in the nps from banning climbing in yosemite.
moreover, we've lost a lot by choosing to privatize rather than to join and do the hard work of reforming the club world. now, each and every battle for this or that issue-- access at this crag, preventing this bit of environmental despoliation, keeping climbing legal --requires that we start all over and put in the time and labor to create a special interest institution.
institutions are much easier to tear down than they are to build.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 12, 2010 - 04:17pm PT
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Kerwin has some good points. The baby-boomers aversion to their parents' institutions, although perhaps somewhat overstated in popular myth, was in part almost Freudian. It really wasn't anything new, just there were more people and they were noisier about it. Pretty standard adolescent male behaviour, much like the territorial and exclusive behaviour of some climbers.
Ultimately, though, it's pretty clear that climbers have to be organized and represented on an ongoing basis on key issues such as access, safety, commercial pressures and conservation. An ad hoc approach doesn't do it, nor does a small tent strategy.
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Chief
climber
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Apr 12, 2010 - 06:29pm PT
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bk, they're Pebble Wrestlers
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Apr 13, 2010 - 12:04am PT
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Fred touche and Ivan Bandic tried the Vulcan's Thumb not long after doing the FA of Perkins pillar. They climbed on snow up the SW face gully to the notch at the base of the final rock tower and said it was the most horrible crap you can imagine. I was glad I'd stayed home with the flu.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 13, 2010 - 12:19am PT
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i realy think we should auction it off some how.
Maybe we should require the Americans to take it as a condition of taking our water?
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Apr 13, 2010 - 12:24am PT
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Ghost: I for one, will agree to share those choss-piles: only if you first annex us.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 13, 2010 - 12:25am PT
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Dick Culbert, my brother Bob, I, and a couple of others tried Vulcan's Thumb in 1965(?). It was September, not the best time, admittedly. We climbed the rock to the left (north) of the gully Oplopanax mentioned. The plan was to rappel into the notch from the peaklet just to the north. We made it to almost to the top of the peaklet before bailing. We knew we were beat. Nightmarish rock; I think we had one or two ropes cut by rockfall during the descent raps. We did figure that the gully in winter was the way to go.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Apr 13, 2010 - 01:09am PT
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Calling this virtual museum "A People's History of BC Mountaineering" is a bit of a stretch. Someone mentioned upthread that the last 30 years or so are missing. Also missing is any mention of the Interior Mountains. For you coastal [and southern] people that's the Cariboo Mountains, the Monashees, the North and South Selkirks and the Purcells. Just minor league stuff like Roger's Pass, where it all started, the Bugs etc. etc..... They probably got a bigger grant by claiming to cover all of BC.
Bruce Fairley isn't history in the Coast Range, or anywhere else. He did a big route down there last summer [2009], and it should be in the next CAJ.
Tami is partially correct when she says that VOC was primarily a dating club. When I was a member it was both a dating and a downhill skiing club, but definitely not a climbing club. The climbing was done by the aptly named Splinter Soc. Talking of dating, that's also where Tricouni met his wife!! I always say that I should have married a VOC girl as well. Hindsight.
Tricouni takes too long to type, so I'm just going to call him Nails. There is a good picture of Nails on this museum site, which is credited to Barry Hagen. I noticed an uncanny resemblance to a photo which i took of Nails on the third morning of our ascent of the U Wall. I would go as far as to say that it looks EXACTLY the same. But museums never make mistakes.
On a slight tangent, I received my complementary copy of Kevin McLane's new guidebook 'Canadian Rock--Select Climbs of the West' this afternoon. It's terrific. All the very best rock routes in Alberta and BC. Quoting from the back cover:
70 climbing areas
1300 climbs
2300 pitches
800 photos and topos
one different feature about this guide is that it does not list the names of the FA parties, so no ego trips here.
----so much to climb, so little time.
Cheers H.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 13, 2010 - 01:15am PT
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Hamie:
Tricouni takes too long to type, so I'm just going to call him Nails. There is a good picture of Nails on this museum site, which is credited to Barry Hagen. I noticed an uncanny resemblance to a photo which i took of Nails on the third morning of our ascent of the U Wall. I would go as far as to say that it looks EXACTLY the same. But museums never make mistakes.
Oh yes, they do make mistakes! Glad you pointed that out; I'm about to email and get it fixed. (I've pointed out another error to them as well.) I didn't know who took it, but makes sense that it was in U Wall days.
Glad that Fairley is still making history in the Coast Mtns.
Glenn
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Apr 13, 2010 - 01:23am PT
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Make that Hardass Nails!!
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 13, 2010 - 01:24am PT
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Hamie:
Calling this virtual museum "A People's History of BC Mountaineering" is a bit of a stretch. Someone mentioned upthread that the last 30 years or so are missing. Also missing is any mention of the Interior Mountains. For you coastal [and southern] people that's the Cariboo Mountains, the Monashees, the North and South Selkirks and the Purcells. Just minor league stuff like Roger's Pass, where it all started, the Bugs etc. etc..... They probably got a bigger grant by claiming to cover all of BC.
Several people, including me, have pointed out that it's essentially a Coast Mtns site. There are other institutions (ACC, Archives of Cdn Rockies, AAC) that have extensive archives of Rockies stuff - not sure about the Interior Ranges. The North Van site can't compete with them. But you are probably correct: the $$ they received from the Feds was probably tied to something broader than just SW BC.
But, some years ago, I contacted Archives of Cdn Rockies about donating some very early Coast Mtns and Omineca Mtns stuff - they were supremely uninterested. So those photos are at UBC now.
There's lots of room for different approaches to a "History of Climbing in BC." The North Van site is just a start, I hope.
Glenn
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 13, 2010 - 01:58am PT
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hey there mighty hiker, say, thanks for the interesting post...
wow, tami is here... say, there, and hey there, tami...
happy to see you,
god bless your day, night, or whatever, as to whatever time
it is now... (it is tue, 1:51 am here) ...
:)
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 13, 2010 - 02:14am PT
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one different feature about this guide is that it does not list the names of the FA parties, so no ego trips here.
Another full on guidebook botch. If it was truly an egoless guidebook the authors name should be absent as well. Kevin what are you thinking ???
Dismiss the people who had the wherewithal to put the route up by excluding them from the guidebook is a feature ? I think not. It is pure disrespect.
Approach Devils Thumb from Brandywine by snowmobile in winter. Possibly do it in a day with experienced riders / Winter Alpinists. I have a Skidoo 800 ready to rock and roll ... except I havent climbed in 10 years. Been a few years since I was out past Powder Mtn but heres a picture taken from Powder Dome summit or nearby.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 13, 2010 - 02:31am PT
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Bmacd:
Approach Devils Thumb from Brandywine by snowmobile in winter. Possibly do it in a day with experienced riders / Winter Alpinists. I have a Skidoo 800 ready to rock and roll ... except I havent climbed in 10 years. Been a few years since I was out past Powder Mtn but heres a picture.
The photo looks like Cayley (north ridge head-on) with Pyroclastic Peak behind. Vulcan's thumb not visible - is hidden by Pyroclastic. (Those wilth a smattering of geology will recognize that, if a peak is named Pyroclastic, it's not going to be clean granite....)
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Apr 13, 2010 - 02:40am PT
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oops, my bad. the comment about no names, so no ego trips is mine. it wasn't on the cover, although the post does read as if kevin had said it. sorry all. sloppy reporting....
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 13, 2010 - 02:54am PT
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Oh Vulcans Thumb is behind Pyrocastic, okay my mistake. Well I have the approach dialed in, in fact seems I overshot Devils thumb that trip. Definitely a full day trip from Brandywine maybe more to climb it. Of course I am hardly up for a chostastic Winter FA, ....
Uhmm is there a problem with snowmobiles ? I have been out of the loop for a while .... Does trying to save Bute Inlet give me carbon credits for my sled ? Except we used a helicopter and a Cessna at Bute ... oh boy I can't seem to do much right.
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 13, 2010 - 03:03am PT
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Ah okay found my shot of Vulcans Thumb, I believe ...
click photo to enlarge
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Chief
climber
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Apr 13, 2010 - 10:15am PT
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Another full on guidebook botch. If it was truly an egoless guidebook the authors name should be absent as well. Kevin what are you thinking ???
Dismiss the people who had the wherewithal to put the route up by excluding them from the guidebook is a feature ? I think not. It is pure disrespect.
Bruce, thank you for having the balls to call Kevin on his bullsh#t, revisionist, egregiously inaccurate and narrow interpretation of other peoples efforts.
His description of Cruel Shoes and Northern Lights relegate my involvement to that of virtual "also ran" rather than the guy that did the first ascent.
I also call bullshit on his claim that Loeks and Putnam got to the left side free from Merci Me before I did.
Sorry to go off on a tangent here folks but Bruce hit a long standing sore spot.
Kevin has chosen to arbitrarily misrepresent or qualify many peoples accomplishments in his guidebooks and I'm sick of it and speaking out.
Perry Beckham
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 13, 2010 - 11:56am PT
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Look at how much the Americans value their history of climbs and climbers who put them up. Parts of this forum are a passionate testament to those pioneers. Imagine what Steve Grossman or Clint Cummins would have to say about a yosemite guidebook with no mention of who the first ascentionists are. Hartouni has everyone in a searchable database.
Anders if you want a book project forget climbing in the 70's at Squamish and consider chronicling the people who explored the coast range right up to whats going on now out there. You will have a much broader target audience.
Bruce Kay what do you think the relief is on the east face of Vulcans thumb ? The final tower looks awful, our own version of the rockies except probably far far worse. Some sledder should go out there and shoot a few HD images of the east face and drop them off at the climbing shop in Squish to rile up the new blood.
Lake Lovely Water was where I hooked up with a very large breasted Exotic french Canadian girl .... something in the water ? Definitely so - Lake Firewater ....
Perry thanks for the morning wake-up call ! Guidebooks eventually form part of the historical record, their authors perhaps don't always realize their responsibilities at the time.
click for larger image
We climbed Garabaldi from Sentinel Bay once, that was a slog ...
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 13, 2010 - 12:21pm PT
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Look at how much the Americans value their history of climbs and climbers who put them up.
This is correct, if by "Americans" you mean roughly three dozen fat, aging, cranky alcoholics most of whom would never even consider throwing down retail for a new paperback edition of practically anything.
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 13, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
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Guide books are part of the historical record so discussing this here is not OT or Taboo.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 13, 2010 - 03:01pm PT
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Look at how much the Americans value their history of climbs and climbers who put them up.
We used to value our history in Canada, too. Maybe even moreso than the Americans. The trend toward ignoring history, or pretending it isn't relevant, is sad.
Maybe on a sport crag where all that's involved is putting up one more line of bolts among dozens, the name of the bolter isn't all that important. Or maybe it is, even then.
But any of us who has spent the hundred hours per pitch required to prepare a route at Squamish, or expended the sweat and blood required to get onto something new in the Coast Range, has got to be insulted by the depersonalization of our efforts.
No guidebook author is ever going to do the job perfectly. But most try. I hope the idea of leaving out the history that goes with our names dies quickly.
D
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 13, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
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We seem to have several tangents going at once, and I can only pop by occasionally.
I once heard, second or third hand, that the rift in the BCMC in the 1920s had in part to do with Saturday night activities at the cabin on Grouse offending some of the more prim and proper members. I wonder if that, plus perhaps the usual personality clashes, precipitated the schism? It may also be that Tom Fyles was thought by a few to be overbearing - that is, too overbearing for a 'mere' postie, in those still class-ridden times. Certainly the local ACC was long seen as the establishment organization, and the BCMC a more egalitarian group. Though such generalizations have less meaning than they used to.
A history of the first 40 - 50 years of climbing at Squamish will be enough for me, I think. Just thinking and planning and literature review, the Slab Alley project, and discussion, has taken most of a year. Hopefully someone like hard-as-nails Tricouni will take up a Coast Range history, or history of mountaineering in BC - which does include some of the Rubbly/Rocky Mountains.
I once posed the question to Oploplanax as to whether there was any unnamed or unclimbed summit visible from within the boundaries of greater Vancouver. That is, a peak showing a 50 m/100 ft contour on a map. An intriguing question. (Oploplanax is a fancy word for devil's club, one of our local ornamental shrubs.)
The Vulcan's Thumb is visible from the highway north of Squamish, and perhaps we should auction off the 'right' to its first ascent to some sucker. It might be a good fundraiser for the Climbers' Access Society.
I'll be at the BCMC social tonight, drinking my tea and eating my cookie, enduring the usual maundering. They have a valid point - snowmobiles, and motorized activities generally, are inappropriate in parks and wilderness. Mountaineering and climbing are about both means and ends. As we all know, if any means of getting to the top is acceptable, there isn't much merit in the ascent. In addition to their environmental impacts, "sledheads" seem to readily confuse means and ends.
As for history... Well, we all have our own perspective on it. Climbers being a somewhat proud, territorial, and critical bunch both helps and hinders. Also, writing climbing history is not a money-making activity, unless it's dumbed down to the tourist level, with lots of pretty photos. It is feasible to make money writing guidebooks, although with changing technology perhaps not for much longer. (Advertisements in guidebooks strike me as tacky, but maybe are now necessary.) We are fortunate at Squamish to have not one but two writers and publishers of climbing guidebooks for the area. They both produce what are overall very useful publications, and do a good job. One shows some bias, in terms of who did what when. It's annoying, in that it could easily be corrected. As Ghost observes, for a generic sport-climbing area, it may not matter much. When there is some history, it's important to try to get it right, in guidebooks and all the more so in histories.
I cringe to think of errors I've made in past writing about climbing, e.g. in the 1980 guidebook. Perhaps I was young enough then that it can be forgiven.
I haven't seen the new select guide that Hamish refers to, but am looking forward to it.
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 13, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
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the Class Warrior has already reaped what he sowed ... just as we all do
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Apr 14, 2010 - 12:02am PT
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There is now a link to the museum site, and a link to this SuperTopo forum thread on the website of the Anachronistic Club of Canada [ACC]. We have a spy in our midst........
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 14, 2010 - 12:07am PT
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There is now a link to the museum site, and a link to this SuperTopo forum thread on the website of the Anachronistic Club of Canada [ACC].
I took a look at the Airborne Climbers of Canada site and didn't see any link. Can you give us a url?
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Chief
climber
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Apr 14, 2010 - 12:10am PT
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Nice work Anders.
Jim and bm, I don't see a warrior or any class.
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 14, 2010 - 12:17am PT
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Chief sez:
Jim and bm, I don't see a warrior or any class
Touche !
We could grind this pyroclastic axe forever ....
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 14, 2010 - 01:11am PT
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there are a lot of problems with "contemporary" history in Yosemite Valley... there has been no comprehensive guide book since 1994, probably 1000s of climbs are undocumented, little of this has reported in the climbing journals because most of this development doesn't reach the level of notoriety.
Who ever wants to write whatever history they think they can, should. The development of the 70s, now 40 years ago, will be lost as that generation of climbers comes to an end.
Canadian climbing has a long, proud history, and it should be told... there are wonderful stories held by just a relatively few climbers. I don't know how to implore you all enough.... but to say that the only stories that will survive are the ones you write down. Perhaps a few of the spoken stories will be recalled and written by those young ones who have heard them and piece them together, but once their attention turns to recording history, as ours did when we got old, they will wish they knew more.
It doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things, of course, but it is something we once did, it was the way we decided to spend a large part of our lives. It would be a wonderful legacy to pass those stories along.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 14, 2010 - 02:14am PT
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You gotta love this Ed guy. Well said.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 14, 2010 - 12:43pm PT
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I wonder who the ACC 'mole' is?
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MH2
climber
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Apr 14, 2010 - 12:50pm PT
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No FA names? Damn! They often give more useful information about a route than the rest of it.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 14, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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Canadian climbing has a long, proud history, and it should be told...
Some of it has been told. I was lucky enough to be part of a project, dreamed up by Bruce Fairley, that eventually became "The Canadian Mountaineering Anthology". We picked stories that we hoped would tell the tale of 100 years of climbing and got them out in a book. The publication was financed by the ACC, and a quick look at Amazon confirms that it is still in print and available.
Needless to say, one book, even a relatively fat one like this, can't come anywhere close to telling all the stories that need to be told. But we did what we could, and maybe now it's time for someone to get the ball rolling for Volume II.
D
And, in case any of you are wondering, we didn't write the stories ourselves, but dug up stories previously published in various places, and used them as they were originally written. We tried to add some commentary, to give readers a bit of background, but the stories really do speak for themselves.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 14, 2010 - 01:21pm PT
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Any comments on Chic Scott's book "Pushing the Limits: the Story of Canadaian Mountaineering"?
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 14, 2010 - 02:12pm PT
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Chic's interviews would do well to be on Youtube, more accessible than where they are now
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 14, 2010 - 02:19pm PT
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Any historian worthwhile reading will do a lotta legwork in interviewing the various players and following their leads as to who did what, when , how and possibly even why.
Sorting the wheat from the chaff then becomes a game of listening to those stories and cross-referrencing notes from various sources.
It sound so easy.
I'm sure that reconciling Kevin's interview with Perry's interview will be a pleasant afternoon, with an outcome guaranteed to make everyone happy.
Gee Anders, what r ya waitin for?
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Apr 14, 2010 - 04:15pm PT
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I still don't understand how Chic Scott f*#ked up so badly as to totally miss, or dismiss, or not even really mention Hank Mather in his Pushing the Limits book
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Apr 14, 2010 - 04:19pm PT
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And Perry, I don't know about Loeks and Putnam but the FFA of the Left Side in the latest McLane guides goes to Nic Taylor and Paul Peart (visiting Australians) in '75. The same info is also given in the CAJ as I recall. Nic Taylor was an Australian hotshot i believe? (there's a couple period pics of him in Yosemite Climber I think too)
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 14, 2010 - 04:25pm PT
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Yes, Kerwin - writing guidebooks and histories is a sure bet for making friends. :-)
The FFA of the left side of the Split Pillar was by visiting Australian Nic Taylor and Peter Peart, in 1975. Peter had emigrated from Australia to Canada in 1970 or so, and was quite active. I knew him through the BCMC, and also we had some classes together in 1975, and he mentioned his and Nic's adventure to me. (Really.) I have several times attempted to correct the "Paul" bit, without success. Peter still lives here, on Bowen Island - he's an engineer. Nic was here on a road trip - I believe the first Australian to pass this way on a visit may have been Chris Baxter, in 1972.
There was some skepticism about Nic and Peter's ascent, in that Peter was more into mountaineering, and Nic not well known. But Nic went on to do some impressive climbs in Australia and Yosemite, offering additional proof. I'm reasonably sure that Peter jumared the crux, or at least had a tight rope.
Peter patiently belayed me on the FA of A Question of Balance, in 1977. That is, while I tiptoed about, drilled bolts, and got scared.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 14, 2010 - 04:33pm PT
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Yes, Kerwin - writing guidebooks and histories is a sure bet for making friends. :-)
And don't forget the part about gettin rich.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 14, 2010 - 05:03pm PT
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Jim Campbell's 1985 topo guide has the FA of the so-called "Grand Wazoo" by Dick Culbert and Tim Auger in 1972. The Grand Wazoo was (I believe) a Daryl name which never caught on for the left side of the Pillar, followed by a short pitch linking to the ledge at the top of the Pillar. Perhaps from a time when Nic's ascent wasn't given credence.
Dick was involved in Ten Years After in 1970 (not 1971), and so would have known how to get to the base of the left side via Mercy Me and the traverse. Jim's guide incorrectly reports the FFA of the "Grand Wazoo to Grand Wall" being by Bill Price, Daryl Hatten and Mike Boris in 1978. That more accurately was the second free ascent of the left side, with the new linkup pitch. (Later further confused by the "Grinning Weasel".)
I wonder if Peter P has photos from the left side?
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 14, 2010 - 06:13pm PT
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Chic not only missed Hank Mather, he missed Leif-Norman Patterson. Both are worthy of inclusion, but he only had so much space, and it was a judgement call on his part.
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Chief
climber
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Apr 14, 2010 - 11:13pm PT
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OK, I'm watching playoff hockey and drinking while posting so bear with me.
My reference wasn't to the Left Side itself but rather, getting to it from Merci Me. When Nic and Bill did it they accessed it by the BC bolt ladders because few people thought of climbing from Merci Me to the Pillar back then. The legendary Les McDonald apparently explored this area.
Both Nic and Bill were belayed from right under the Left Side roof.
Tom Gibson and George Manson climbed from Ten Tears After over to within a few bolts of the Pillar from Merci Me back in 80ish and told me with a couple pins and a bolt it might go free to the ladder. I placed a bolt to protect the shortcut halfway up pitch two of Merci Me and led the traverse from TYA to the big ledge well below the Left Side placing pins free on lead. Someone later pulled the pins and placed a couple bolts. Botch job. After placing a high protection bolt off the ledge, I climbed the twenty feet or so of poorly protected 11a face from the ledge to the roof.
The moves from the Left Side to the Right Side belay were beyond me (still are) till Peter "found" a secret foothold which later fell off. (12b now I think)
Linking Merci Me to the Left Side free meant that the Grand now went free to the top of the Sword via the Left Side and that meant a lot to me then and still does now.
Kevin McLane insists Dave Loeks and Bill Putnam did this previously.
I saw no evidence and they've never corroborated his story so till then I call bullsh#t.
Thanks, back to the playoffs.
Perry
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 15, 2010 - 12:44am PT
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The moves from the Left Side to the Right Side belay were beyond me (still are) till Peter "found" a secret foothold which later fell off. (12b now I think)
I was watching Dean Hart thru binoculars as he stepped onto that foothold. A few moments later the foot hold blew, Dean popped off and I saw the former foot hold tumble to the ground. But this was them going for the Left Side from the tree belay, so maybe I am talking about some thing else. Should I post a picture ? I might have something somewhere ...
Nice work on the linkage Perry, I was not aware it was you who established the traverse.
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Chief
climber
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Apr 15, 2010 - 12:48am PT
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Thanks Bruce, my point exactly.
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 15, 2010 - 01:02am PT
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"found" = chipped ?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 15, 2010 - 01:24am PT
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I'll eventually ask Dick and Tim how they got to the left side in 1972, also Peter how they did it in 1975. Daryl and Eric climbed the bolt ladders to get to the right side when they freed it, and Eric and I did Mercy Me in 1974 without any discussion as to going across from there - although as noted, Steve, Hugh and Dick somehow got partway over in 1970. Loeks and Putnam tried to scoop Eric and Daryl on the right side, and repeated it not long after. I don't recall anything unusual about how they got there, and the first mention of people going across from Mercy Me was maybe in the late 1970s (?).
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Chief
climber
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Apr 15, 2010 - 09:51am PT
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It was Peter Croft and he told me he just "tapped a loose flake with a carabiner" and voila, nice foothold. Later the rest of the little flake fell off
Ten Years After was accessed from the top of Merci Me via a downward right traverse involving some aid. I don't know of anyone continuing right to the ladders although from TYA a short lower and pendulum would get you to the last fifty feet of BC ladders.
While there's lots I don't know about anything much less Squamish history, I can say that nobody climbed over to the Pillar free via Merci Me and those pin protected ledges before I did it on Tom and George's recommendation.
If there's something more than hearsay that proves me wrong, I'll fess up, say I was wrong and buy someone a beer. Till then, I'm loudly calling BS on Kevin's guides and not just on this matter.
Regards,
Perry
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 15, 2010 - 11:03am PT
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Perry, what is the history of the "Daily Planet" ? I remember Hamish had a fair bit to say about it.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 15, 2010 - 11:12am PT
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The moves from the Left Side to the Right Side belay were beyond me (still are) till Peter "found" a secret foothold which later fell off. (12b now I think)
Heh.
That was my favorite move on GW. There was a buttonhead w/o a hanger right at that move. That foothold was positive, but not really big enough to switch feet easily. Two sidepulls for the hands.
I grabbed the sidepulls, put my right foot on that foothold, hooked my left toe back under the corner/roof, then let go both hands and leaned over to grab the belay ledge. Asked for slack and then cut loose.
When Scott followed he worked the same beta, got into that sidescale position, with the exposure under him, and reached for the ledge-- but he was about a foot short. Heh.
I really liked that Merci Me to R. SP section. It had the first really exposed feeling moves on the climb.
Now exfoliated, along with the rest of my memories.
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Chief
climber
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Apr 15, 2010 - 11:31am PT
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The history of the Daily Planet is complex and colorful and at the time, it seemed like much was at stake. It's a subject that's deserving of it's own thread. Likewise for my beef with Kevin's guidebooks and his penchant for historical revisionism.
It's impossible for any guide book to be complete as it's outdated as soon as it's printed. It's hard to tell the whole story in a way that will satisfy everyone.
Guide books don't have to tell the whole story but they do have to tell the truth.
There's lots of good examples.
Back to Mighty's thread.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Apr 15, 2010 - 12:06pm PT
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A point of clarification. Upthread [Lonely Planet] bmacd is referring to Hamish F, and not to me. What a phenom. Wish I could have climbed like that. Dang!!!
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 15, 2010 - 01:16pm PT
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Darnit, we just dragged out Peter Crofts dirty laundry on a historical thread and Chief bows out gracefully on more history lessons ...
Perhaps some grievances are best forgotten, lest they make us ill
Of course subject matter buried as thread drift, few would suspect to look here
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 15, 2010 - 01:45pm PT
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Hamie:
Bmacd is referring to Hamish F, and not to me. What a phenom. Wish I could have climbed like that. Dang!!!
You are being a bit modest here; your climbing was never too shabby, and your climbing record speaks for itself.
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Chief
climber
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Apr 15, 2010 - 04:35pm PT
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Tami and Jim,
Re the foothold, I got it straight from the great Pedro Croftini himself.
And nobody's calling it chipping, he just knocked off a loose flake with a wee tap of a biner.
The Planet was a defining time for our Squamish tribe and it's hard to see it clearly till you get a decade or two away from it. Everyone of us that toiled and scrapped over that route can be proud of a great climb and friendships that endure to this day.
In alphabetical order the FA credits go something like this;
Mike Beaubien
Perry Beckham
Peter Croft
Hamish Fraser
Blake Robinson
Brooke Sandahl
John Simpson
Respectfuly,
PB
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 15, 2010 - 08:50pm PT
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I'm a shyte disturber ....
Chief, Congrats to you all. I got up an early version of the Planet with Hamish a couple times. Spectacular route
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Chief
climber
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Apr 15, 2010 - 11:05pm PT
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Brooke and I didn't bring a camera when we did the first ascent of The Daily Planet so I can't figure out how there could be pictures of the FA.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 15, 2010 - 11:12pm PT
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So I'm struggling in the sun, swimming with axes,crampons and whatever offers purchase on some dumb blob of snow on a glacier some where. Don is holding the liberally anchored rope.
Same song, different verse. Axes and crampons, and Don holding the rope, but mid winter and no swimming. Just a perfect day out on the Lions
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Apr 15, 2010 - 11:13pm PT
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As I drove up to ski at Cypress (Hollyburn to some) today, I could swear I could hear the yelling about BC climbing history wafting in the warm spring air...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 15, 2010 - 11:17pm PT
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If you were cross-country skiing, it would have been on Hollyburn Ridge. If downhill, on Mount Strachan (pronounced, Scottish-style, as "Struan") or Black Mountain. No "Cypress Mountains" anywhere in the neighbourhood.
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 15, 2010 - 11:18pm PT
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Brooke and I didn't bring a camera when we did the first ascent of The Daily Planet so I can't figure out how there could be pictures of the FA.
No worries Chief the pad people pushed the route 20 feet higher and made a music video of the ascent, renamed the route and posted it all to Utube last summer
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Apr 15, 2010 - 11:31pm PT
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I was in fact xc schlepping on the sides of Hollyburn in the quickly slowing glop. I could hear the ghosts of long-gone ACC members on the updrafts...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 15, 2010 - 11:42pm PT
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You guys have all seen these before, though there aren't nearly as many around as there used to be. Where is it from? Who placed it? When?
Here's another fairly recent photo of it, attached to its bolt.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 16, 2010 - 01:04am PT
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Hint: Few if any posters to this thread clipped the hangar when it was attached to the bolt, but almost all have been within 10 m of it.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 16, 2010 - 01:07am PT
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Slab Alley?
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Chief
climber
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Apr 16, 2010 - 09:49am PT
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Tami, sorry for missing the quotation marks, post those pictures!
Anders I've got a bunch of hangers just like that hanging by the door.
Relics of the same vintage, probably crafted and placed by the same guys.
Man the stories they'd tell if they could talk!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Apr 16, 2010 - 11:12am PT
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If I remember correctly, there was a short bolt ladder on Slab Alley that had some of those hangers. And, again if I remember correctly, Les Priest (a climber who disappeared from the scene decades ago) fell while directly above that ladder and slit himself open on one of the hangers. Early 70s I think.
And since I was never part of the Daily Planet thing, in fact didn't even know there was a "thing" about it, I'd love to hear some stories.
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Chief
climber
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Apr 16, 2010 - 12:04pm PT
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Those angle stock hangers did make good footholds.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 16, 2010 - 12:41pm PT
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The Planet was a defining time for our Squamish tribe and it's hard to see it clearly till you get a decade or two away from it. Everyone of us that toiled and scrapped over that route can be proud of a great climb and friendships that endure to this day.
In alphabetical order the FA credits go something like this;
Mike Beaubien
Perry Beckham
Peter Croft
Hamish Fraser
Blake Robinson
Brooke Sandahl
John Simpson
Respectfuly,
PB
Wow, Perry can post as elegantly as he climbs. Seriously, that's pretty graceful.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 16, 2010 - 04:41pm PT
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Here's another photo of that pesky bolt, where it lived until recently.
(True angle 10 - 15 degrees greater than it appears.)
And here are photos of another fine piece of gear, which everyone on this thread probably clipped into at some time. Removed some years ago, but from what climb?
Chief: Those angle stock hangers did make good footholds.
In the purely theoretical sense, of course. They might have made good footholds, but we never stood on them, or held onto them. The very farthest thing from our thoughts.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 16, 2010 - 04:42pm PT
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the pin on apron strings?
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Cloudraker
Big Wall climber
BC
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Apr 16, 2010 - 10:59pm PT
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squamish buttress?
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 16, 2010 - 11:11pm PT
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The bolt looks to be on the last pitch of Slab Alley where it cuts left across to Banana Peel.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Apr 16, 2010 - 11:32pm PT
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that pin is the one from the banana peel flake crux isn't it?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 17, 2010 - 12:28am PT
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Funny you should mention Banana Peel. Done by Dan Tate and Barry Hagen in 1965. Now the scene of much whining at the moderate runout slabs that the route features, although there is one bolt. But that bolt apparently wasn't placed on the first ascent.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 17, 2010 - 01:29am PT
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Mighty Hiker: Funny you should mention Banana Peel. Done by Dan Tate and Barry Hagen in 1965. Now the scene of endless whining at the moderate runout slabs that the route features, although there is one bolt. But that bolt apparently wasn't placed on the first ascent.
This is correct: there was no bolt on the first few ascents. I was up there a few weeks after the first ascent, went up a ways and didn't care for what I saw. So I backed off and we did something else. I went back a few weeks later, did it with no problems. Still no bolt. The bolt showed up within a year, but nobody ever took "credit" for it and I never found out who it was. I had my suspicions but at this late date I can't remember who I thought the culprits were.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 17, 2010 - 01:40am PT
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assuming the mountain horizon in the background sets the horizontal...
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MH2
climber
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Apr 17, 2010 - 08:46pm PT
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Thanks for the slightly out-of-place comments on the Left Side and Daily Planet. The Daily Planet did make a splash at the time. I remember getting an enthusiastic recommendation from Uli and Ira Leuthasser in Seattle, mid-80s. The Left Side should get more traffic and that first 20 feet or so to the roof where the crack starts is hard and thinly protected and considered by some to be the technical crux. The talk about moving from the Left Side to the Right Side confused me but I guess it is about making the looong reach across to the base of the Split Pillar, just up and left of the 3-bolt ladder, now protected by a solid newish bolt and used by Scot Cosgrove on the free ascent. There is also a step-across from the top of the Left Side to the ledge at the top of the Split Pillar. Isn't that still 5.9?
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MH2
climber
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Apr 17, 2010 - 08:50pm PT
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Also about 10 m distant from a well-beaten path
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 18, 2010 - 12:15am PT
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Ding ding ding! OK, Tricouni wins the prize for where the hanger came from. Maybe he should have been DQed - those who know too much. It's from the second-last pitch of Slab Alley before Broadway, on the original route - where it traversed left into what is now the last pitch of Banana Peel. But he hasn't told us when it was placed, or by whom. (The original line of Slab Alley also included what is now Boomstick Crack.)
And the pin was from the fourth (or so) pitch of Banana Peel, where there's a short corner crack in a steep wall. It was there in September 1973, if not earlier, and still there in August 2000 when I removed it. Quite easily, I should mention - oddly, for all the fuss some climbers make about safety, no one seems to have bothered checking it for years. A couple taps and a tug. About 1/3 of the metal had eroded away.
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 18, 2010 - 12:43am PT
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Tell it to us Bruce !
We are done with slab alley for sure ....
I am still chuffed McLane refused to publish my uber classic backside route "Too Drunk to Fukk" in his original guide
Bruce can you get me into to Toba so I can do a little Bigfoot hunting ? Do they accept guests up there ? Drop me off in the woods with my night vision cameras for a few days .... fuk all going on at Bute in terms of Sasquatch as far as I could tell.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 18, 2010 - 01:31am PT
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At one time, Slab Alley was one of the 2 or 3 most popular climbs at Squamish. Routes come and go and come again in popularity. For non-athletic types like me, it was a pleasant outing and I'm glad it's getting rehabilitated.
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Chief
climber
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Apr 18, 2010 - 12:32pm PT
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There was a time when I had the Left Side pretty dialed.
Linking the Left Side to The Roman Chimneys seemed like good training for the really hard Valley routes. Keep the rack light, move fast etc.
So one set of Friends to #4 should be plenty.
Past the bad green RPs, up under the roof, finesse the rattles, pose on the bomber hands and swing into the cupped hand shuffle. Save the #4 till it just fits the widening crack and try to sneak by. Then I swing into the handstacks, cruise along for a bit then look down in horror to see that the #4 is inverted and useless. I'm probably a solid 40 feet above the #3.5 which would start slowing me down as I hit the slab. I still have another twenty feet of climbing to get past the 10a OW crux. Somehow I kept it together and got into the upper 5.9 crack with zero gear for the next twenty feet to the anchor. Man, was I relieved to clip in!
Don't underestimate the 80 feet of 10a fluff above the thin hands crux.
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Chief
climber
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Apr 18, 2010 - 01:54pm PT
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bk, yes and yes.
Why don't we have a beer over a hockey game?
And how about that flake Luongo?
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Chief
climber
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Apr 18, 2010 - 02:30pm PT
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Gave up a two nothing lead, allowed the OT winner.
Probably the Canuck's greatest liability.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Apr 18, 2010 - 02:50pm PT
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Okay Nails, you're in the cross-hairs today. Better duck now. A few days ago, Tami mentioned 'Sentry Box'. This climb is listed as 'Artificial Land' FA Baldwin/Cooper 6.4 [that's A2 for the children] in Baldwin's hand-written guide. I just looked at it again. However it is listed as 'Sentry Box' in your green guide, the first one published. So how/who/why/when was the name changed? This has puzzled/bugged me for years. Decades! Anders, perhaps the truth will finally out?
I had no idea that mentioning Kevin's new guide would result in such lengthy thread drift, although it's good to read about some local stuff for a change. Apologies to Anders for hi-jacking the thread, but it's all good material for his new book. Now I know why Kevin omitted the FA names--he didn't want to get embroiled in another mega s**t-storm. Smart man.
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Chief
climber
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Apr 18, 2010 - 02:56pm PT
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gf,
I think I one upped your transgression by putting in a bolt belay in the middle of an upper pitch of GW when I linked TYA to HD.
I was sure at the time I was exercising legitimate prerogative but in retrospect I'm not so sure.
hamie,
I was at the campfire at Psyche Ledge the day Eric freed Sentry Box and remember it like it was yesterday.
John Arts was there and had held Eric on a big whipper that rope burned Eric's arm as I recall.
Eric was pretty stoked and he never referred to the climb as anything but Sentry Box.
Respectfully,
PB
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 18, 2010 - 03:14pm PT
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second the motion for Greg's story of John Clarke on Mt. Bute
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Chief
climber
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Apr 18, 2010 - 03:24pm PT
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as far as bolts go how about that perry's lieback abortion?
I'm not sure where the line is Bruce, but I'd say you definitely crossed it with that one. Fuk you very much!
Perry Beckham
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 18, 2010 - 06:43pm PT
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Grim Reaper was an incomplete line. It went left instead of continuing straight up. It had a fixed copper head as the last piece of pro. Aside from swapping the copper head for a bolt we didn't change Grim Reaper to establish Teetering. Are you are talking about something other than Teetering Bruce ?
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 18, 2010 - 07:17pm PT
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Hamie: Okay Nails, you're in the cross-hairs today. Better duck now. A few days ago, Tami mentioned 'Sentry Box'. This climb is listed as 'Artificial Land' FA Baldwin/Cooper 6.4 [that's A2 for the children] in Baldwin's hand-written guide. I just looked at it again. However it is listed as 'Sentry Box' in your green guide, the first one published. So how/who/why/when was the name changed? This has puzzled/bugged me for years. Decades! Anders, perhaps the truth will finally out?
That's a really good question and I don't know the answer for certain. In Baldwin's final, typed guidebook (the one ready for publication), it's called Artificial Land. Cooper's account of the route says "The route we ascended climbs 50 feet to a cut in a large overhang (the sentry box), ....". Baldwin also used the term "sentry box."
I did not rename routes. I named a couple (and badgered people into naming them) but I didn't rename anything that previously had a name. Seeing as I had Baldwin's typescript, I was aware of the Artificial Land name. My guess is that, after Jim's death, Cooper though that "Artificial Land" was stupid or boring and decided that "Sentry Box" would be better (I agree). He might have told Tony Cousins who told me. I don't recall ever talking to Ed about it; I'm going to email him in a couple of minutes.
I went through my pathetically sparse surviving notes from the 1967 green guide. They don't help, but I did find an interesting note I'd written on Slab Alley. (That route keeps coming up, doesn't it?). "The ascent has taken as little as 15 minutes; most parties will require upwards of 2 hours." That seems fast even for today; I wonder who did it in pre-1968 days?
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 19, 2010 - 12:20am PT
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You know there's a biography of JC in the works...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Apr 19, 2010 - 01:17am PT
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Bob McGowan (sp?) from Oregon was the first to work on what became Teetering on the Brink of Madness, in 1977 or 1978. Somewhere I have a letter from him about it. I don't know how far he got, perhaps above the end of the crack. He was going to call it A Slice of Life.
Sighting today at the Starbucks in Squamish: Don Serl and his daughter Ashley, who'd ridden up from Vancouver on Don's motorcycle. (He's very keen on them.) That coffee shop is a rendezvous for hordes of motorcyclists, but probably not motorcycle gangs. The sociology is fascinating.
Carl was (is?) a darn fine slab and face climber, and lives in North Carolina.
You might be quite surprised who lurks here.
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sac
Trad climber
spuzzum
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Apr 19, 2010 - 02:58pm PT
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one lurker, pipin' in...
JC bump
enjoying this climber talk.
A.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 19, 2010 - 03:35pm PT
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There is now (as of last week) an official Mount John Clarke. It was formerly and informally named "Sun Peak," and it's near the head of Jervis Inlet. John took many young people into that area; it was an important place to him. I'm very pleased.
Anyways, after much hard work by a number of people over 3 years, we now have a fitting commemorative peak for him. See http://archive.ilmb.gov.bc.ca/bcgn-bin/bcg10?name=60861
Harbour Publishing will be doing Lisa's biography of John.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Apr 20, 2010 - 12:00am PT
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Let's leave the JC appreciation thread for the book launch (might rustle up a few book sales, too). But if anyone on this forum has JC stories, I know that Lisa would like to hear them. Same with photos. She's over in Ireland right now, researching John's roots.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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The legendary outdoorsman known as Mountain Goat or Xwexwselkn to the Squamish First Nation for his tussled white hair and climbing skills has officially been honoured with a mountain in his name on B.C.'s south coast.
Mount John Clarke has been accepted by the province as the name for a 2,306-metre-high peak located southwest of Sims Creek and northeast of Princess Louisa Inlet that had informally been known as Sun Peak.
http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Mountain+name+honours+legendary+explorer+Coast+Range/2973810/story.html
So it's finally official.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Discovered this in the 'archives':
'67 Summit
Complete with driving directions from Seattle for the cartographically challenged!
The article is by Keith Gunnar who was an excellent photographer as you shall see. Summit's photo repro was not great; I would like to see the originals.
View of Mt Munday from Mt Jeffrey
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Bonus post of some of that inimitable Summit 'humour' (don't choke Tami!)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Thought that would make yur night!
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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luv to see more from that '67 Summit issue !
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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OK, Bmacdaddy, your wish is my scan. There was a page of four color photos but they were reproed very poorly in the mag so I didn't bother.
This issue also had a Bjornstad article on mud nailin' in the Fisher Towers and an 'informative' article "Which Stove Will You Carry", and an article on a FA at Tahquita (Jonah). I suppose I'll have to scan a couple of those.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 13, 2012 - 08:38pm PT
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The North Vancouver Museum & Archives has now scanned and posted historical BC mountain photos. "Mountain Light is a selection of photographs, taken by notable BC mountaineers. The images are all from the British Columbia Mountaineering Club’s archival collection which was transferred to the North Vancouver Archives in 2012. This display provides a sampling of the depth of that collection." See http://www.nvma.ca/collections8.htm
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