Big Brother has a camera on you brother!

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 1 - 42 of total 42 in this topic

couchmaster

climber

pdx

Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 25, 2010 - 01:28pm PT

Apparently the Forest service has decided that YOU need to be watched, in case YOU commit a crime. The area I mention below is too high up in elevation to grow pot, too far out and inconvenient for meth heads to set up a lab.

My personal story is this: Just last Feb., I was up hiking solo with my 2 dawgs into a remote new climbing area to look around and see what winter looked like up there. I came driving out on the single lane dirt road and bumped into an forest service patrol vehicle coming my way....something in and of itself I find new, strange, unneeded and unwelcome. I pulled over to a pullout and waved the hello greeting and it turns out that I did know one of the guys and we rolled out windows down and did the "hail fellow well met" thing, he gets out, Glock on hip and leans in the window.....just talked bullshit and what was up, happy to see each other. He works for another Federal police agency but was doing a "ride along" thinking he might go work for the Forest Service police.

I thought it strange they were patrolling on a dirt road so far into the woods, at a time of year that few folks were out there, I figured they were looking for something specifically. Nope: later I heard from the guy that it was just a routine patrol, but that ALL of the Forest Service roads had these hidden cameras installed. All of them. Evidently it's usually close to where the roads start. He says "Don't bother looking, you'll never find them, LOL".

I did a google search and saw nothing about anything like this, and was wondering if I might have been the subject of a joke by my buddy. I couldn't find anything searching for all kinds of different terms: "Forest Service installing surveillance cameras", or spy cameras on dirt roads", or "hidden police cameras in the woods" kind of thing anywhere.

Recently I got an e-mail from the Western States lands Coalition http://www.westernslopenofee.org/]http://www.westernslopenofee.org/ with the news story dated Mar 12th 2010 that the first camera was just found, also in February. Check out the location! East Coast. Remember that I'm in Oregon on a Forest Service road having this discussion with my buddy and he was saying ALL roads had cameras. Is homeland security grants paying for all this monioting? How many new hires do they have? How do they upload this info? Is it computer monitored or did they go to India for labor? What the heck is the story here?

Full link followed by full text:
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2010/mar/16/francis-marion-has-hidden-cameras/

"Hidden cameras - Forest Service says devices used for law enforcement
By Tony Bartelme
The Post and Courier
Tuesday, March 16, 2010

Last month, Herman Jacob took his daughter and her friend camping in the Francis Marion National Forest. While poking around for some firewood, Jacob noticed a wire. He pulled the wire and followed it to a video camera and antenna.

The camera didn't have any markings identifying its owner, so Jacob took it home and called law enforcement agencies to find out if it was theirs, all the while wondering why someone would station a video camera in an isolated clearing in the woods.

Herman Jacob squats next to a stump and log in the Francis Marion National Forest where he found a video camera buried and pointing toward a camping site (background) where he and his daughter were camping. Jacob was looking for firewood when he across the camera that was put there by the Forest Service.
Photo by Brad Nettles

Provided/Herman Jacob
Herman Jacob found this motion-activated camera in a primitive campsite in the Francis Marion National Forest.

He eventually received a call from Mark Heitzman of the U.S. Forest Service. In a stiff voice, Heitzman ordered Jacob to turn it back over to his agency, explaining that it had been set up to monitor "illicit activities." Jacob returned the camera but felt uneasy.

Why, he wondered, would the Forest Service have secret cameras in a relatively remote camping area? What do they do with photos of bystanders? How many hidden cameras are they using, and for what purposes? Is this surveillance in the forest an effective law enforcement tool? And what are our expectations of privacy when we camp on public land?

Officials with the Forest Service were hardly forthcoming with answers to these and other questions about their surveillance cameras. When contacted about the incident, Heitzman said "no comment" and referred other questions to Forest Service's public affairs, who he said, "won't know anything about it."

Heather Frebe, public affairs officer with the Forest Service in Atlanta, told Watchdog that the camera was part of a law enforcement investigation, but she declined to provide any of the investigation's details.

Asked how cameras are used in general, how many are routinely deployed throughout the Forest and about the agency's policies, Frebe also declined to discuss specifics. She said that surveillance cameras have been used for "numerous years" to provide for public safety and to protect the natural resources of the forest. Without elaborating, she said images of people who are not targets of an investigation are "not kept."

In addition, when asked whether surveillance cameras had led to any arrests, she did not provide an example, saying in an e-mail statement: "Our officers use a variety of techniques to apprehend individuals who break laws on the national forest."

Video surveillance, of course, is nothing new, and the courts have addressed the issue numerous times in recent decades. The Fourth Amendment guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, and over time the courts have created a body of law that defines what's reasonable, though this has become more challenging as surveillance cameras became smaller and more advanced.

In general, the courts have held that people typically have no reasonable level of privacy in public places, such as banks, streets, open fields in plain view, and on public lands, such as National Parks and National Forests. In various cases, judges ruled that a video camera is effectively an extension of a law enforcement officer's eyes and ears. In other words, if an officer can eyeball a campground in person, it's OK to station a video camera in his or her place.

Jacob said he understands that law enforcement officials have a job to do but questioned whether stationing hidden cameras outweighed his and his children's privacy rights. He said the camp site they went to -- off a section of the Palmetto Trail on U.S. Highway 52 north of Moncks Corner -- was primitive and marked only by a metal rod and a small wooden stand for brochures. He didn't recall seeing any signs saying that the area was under surveillance.

After he found the camera, he plugged the model number, PV-700, into his Blackberry, and his first hit on Google was a Web site offering a "law enforcement grade" motion-activated video camera for about $500. He called law enforcement agencies in the area, looking for its owner, and later got a call from Heitzman, an agent with the National Forest Service.

"He sounded all bent out of shape that I had his camera," Jacob recalled. He asked Heitzman about the camera's purpose. When Heitzman told him that illegal activities were taking place in the area, Jacob said he asked whether it was safe to camp there. He said that Heitzman reassured him that it was. Jacob said he later wondered why the Forest Service would set up a camera in an area they considered safe. "Now, I'm wondering how many campsites they're monitoring?" He phoned Charleston attorney Tim Kulp for advice.

Kulp said the Forest Service's failure to explain what they're doing in the forest raises important privacy questions. "What's the goal here?" He said the Forest Service also needs to address what they do with images of people who aren't targets of any investigation, particularly of children.

Kulp said people generally are willing to give up their privacy if it means protection from harm but not if law enforcement officials are merely cracking down on petty offenses.

He added that people's expectations of privacy in a remote area in the National Forest are different than other public spaces. "You're not going to go to the bathroom in the parking lot of Walmart, but you're not going to think twice in the forest." Both are public spaces, he said, but most people likely would expect to have more privacy in the forest."
___

That's the end of the news story. For myself, I'm sadly beginning to feel more like it's even more of an "us against them" thing. I served my county and I'm an honorably discharged veteran. I consider myself hardworking honest and patriotic. Yet I have to tell you, my own government utilizing all these resources to be needlessly spying on me and expanding it's powers for no apparent reason is shockingly unsettling and disturbing. I understand surveillance to help on criminal investigations. I understand that they have the right to look through my garbage cans, but having the right is different than having them actually and routinely go through them, or following my every move all the time when I am in public spaces. Somehow, we don't have the resources to keep murderers, rapists and thieves in jail, but we have the funds to do this expensive monitoring? (The camera appears to be a standard "Bullet camera -@$400.00, wrapped with camo tape, and the recoding device is named above -@ $500.00. They look to have increased the battery size inside cover of the waterproof case -total $ - what $1200? per unit?) We can't keep illegals out from Mexico but we can spend millions or perhaps billions of uncharted and secret dollars to monitor all these dead end dirt roads in the middle of nowhere frequented primarily by honest citizens? It's total bullshit and I find it very, very, disturbing.

Reilly

Mountain climber

Monrovia, CA

Mar 25, 2010 - 01:41pm PT

Like all bureaucracies they're only interested in expanding
their empire and job security. Relevance or implementing policies
that the people want or need have no place in policy making.

If local police have civilian oversight committees why doesn't
the Forest Service and the Park Service. Don't tell me Congress
is their civilian overseer as those people aren't civilians. Hell,
half of 'em aren't even marginally civil most of the time!

nature

climber

Tucson, AZ

Mar 25, 2010 - 01:44pm PT

he was full of sh#t saying all roads now have these things. No way... impossible and unpractical. think of all the roads out there.

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!?!?!?!11169

willie!!!!!

Trad climber

99827

Mar 25, 2010 - 01:46pm PT

I'd put the electronics in my scathole and keep the pelican box for weed storage.

Scary stuff, and I'm afraid it's only just begun.

Jack Burns

climber

Mar 25, 2010 - 01:50pm PT

Where do the cables go from the cameras? Do they run to some central wireless router or something? I can't fathom hardwiring these things over miles of terrain to where the monitors are.

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Mar 25, 2010 - 02:00pm PT

If I find that kind of trash, I'll treat it just like a beer can or candy wrapper. It'll be picked up and carried to the nearest garbage can.

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

sorry, just posting out loud.

Mar 25, 2010 - 02:06pm PT

"You're not going to go to the bathroom in the parking lot of Walmart, but you're not going to think twice in the forest." Both are public spaces, he said, but most people likely would expect to have more privacy in the forest."

I think this is spot on, that one can have an expectation of privacy in the forest, despite it being an officially designated "public space". So the general principle of public space = no right to privacy, is actually not a true proposition.

Moreover, there are times when you might need to change your dirty clothes after a hike. Dry out your clothes near the campfire when it rains.

I would think that a Freedom of Information Act request would be appropriate if the FS is not forthcoming with a response. http://w2.eff.org/Activism/FOIA/foia.kit

Also an inquiry with the EFF (eff.org) might prove useful as well.

There are likely valuable reasons to set up a CCTV system in the forest. Drug enforcement... grows or labs are problems in FS land. Also, recurring violent acts on forest visitors, or recurring vandalism to Forest Service structures?

WBraun

climber

Mar 25, 2010 - 02:10pm PT

There will be one installed coming to your local crag.

The evidence that you're grabbing gear and hang dogging and then claiming a flash will be revealed.

There will be no place for you to hide ..........

corniss chopper

Mountain climber

san jose, ca

Mar 25, 2010 - 02:16pm PT

If their spy cams records just one image of a child relieving themselves
in the woods, all the Forest Service people involved could get 20years in prison. Taxpayer funded USFS child pornography?

DOJ should confiscate the home computers of all involved today.
Probable cause.

Klimmer

Mountain climber

San Diego

Mar 25, 2010 - 02:29pm PT

Thanks for sharing this. I hadn't heard it yet, but I'm not surprised.

Call me a conspiracy theorist I do not care.

The truth of the matter is our NWO US Federal Government is pushing head-on to watch all aspects of our lives. George Orwells 1984 world is here. It has been here for sometime now and it is only getting worse day by day.

Watch the video "NOVA: The Spy Factory". Every electronic data means in our lives now, phone calls, cell or land-line, emails, FAXs, even turning on our cell phones remotely to listen in is now possible and they do it, is all being massively swept-up and stored by the NSA. This came under the cover of the US Patriot Act, which is anything but Patriotic. But they have wanted to do this for a long, long time. 9-11 and the Patriot Act just gave them the excuse, under the cover of "Keeping us safe." That is 100% USDA Bull Dung. It is Uber Big Brother and all about the lose of our Constitutional Bill of Rights. This is all very scary and extremely oppressive and Orwellian.

DHS and now other Federal agencies are now complying and setting up remote cameras. I believe it. No doubt. I would say in no time many of our outdoor and in the public lives will be imaged and recorded. Why stop there? Why not monitor us in our homes? I'm sure they are working on it. With infrared sensing you can see through walls, so why not?

RFID chips are also ultimately evil. We now have an RFID chip in new Passports, as well as many products we purchase. All they have to do is set up sensores throughout public places and facilites and if you are carrying a passport or product the sensores can read it.

They can track you real time if your cell phone is on as you walk around and move around in your car. They can do that now.

Not to mention what they can do with remote sensing from space with sattelites.

All of this is massively scary. I have been saying so for a long time as well as others.

If this does not bother you something is wrong. This abuse has to stop.

Maysho

climber

Soda Springs, CA

Mar 25, 2010 - 02:33pm PT

That same rig is what researchers use for "camera traps" to photograph wildlife. Last week we had a school group and one of the chaperones was a wildlife biologist researcher, who set one up, we didn't get anything in a one-night try, but we are excited to purchase a couple of these rigs and add that to our youth programs. Night photos of pine martens or flying squirrels would be really cool!

So, don't go nuts if you find such a rig, good chance it has nothing to do with "big brother" but might be equipment used in research that can be useful for wild lands protection, or enviro-ed for youth.

Peter

John Moosie

climber

Beautiful California

Mar 25, 2010 - 02:43pm PT

Peter - Put a big tag on your camera rig & let the public know what it's use is for.
e.g : LEAVE THIS CAMERA PLEASE IT"S FOR TAKING PIX OF SQUIRRELS AND STUFF.

Something unmarked and buried is, IMHO, more sinister...........

Yep.. clearly marked. Who owns it and why its there. I find a camera aimed at my campsite and it will likely end up with problems.

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

sorry, just posting out loud.

Mar 25, 2010 - 02:57pm PT

Tami,

Correction to my post to say that I was referring in general to the policy. There are some forests that are perfect for grows or labs, not too high or too low. Eventually the grows will be less of an issue of drugs, and more about pollutants in water sources, but if the offense is a felony level, then there is principled basis to use CCTV or still photography in the forest.

In terms of violence, the 108 had a missing person not too long ago. Too suspicious dissappearance not to be an act of violence. And it's not that means a justification for dragnet placement of cameras, but that the use can be justified in an active investigation, or felony man hunt.

For cases of arson of forest service property, again, a repeat arsonist might be just the right kind of use for these, but since there is absolutely no public policy about their use, then the use must default to be seen as surreptitious and perjorative.

corniss chopper

Mountain climber

san jose, ca

Mar 25, 2010 - 03:58pm PT

Couchmaster - how could you have known it was a Govt spy cam? For all
you or anyone could guess it was placed there by a perv trying to get nude shots of your wife and kids. Possibly a govt perv misusing equipment?

This is similar to that PA school turning on students Macbook web cams
to spy on them at home. FBI is reaming those idiots.

Isn't there a federal law against the use of surveillance cameras where people will be going to the bathroom?

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

sorry, just posting out loud.

Mar 25, 2010 - 05:08pm PT

Corniss, the difference there is the cameras could be used by non LEOs in a private space (homes). Not the same.

Oh, and just to be clear, Couch was quoting an article. He didn't find the cameras himself. right?

kinnikinik

Trad climber

B.C.

Mar 25, 2010 - 05:20pm PT

Recently in AZ we witnessed large dirigables anchored above the desert. Two at the Yuma proving ground and one above the san Pedro valley near sierra vista. I asked a marine dood I met out in the Kofa about them. He told me they are equiped with thermal imaging cameras as well as optical instruments. They are positioned to cover huge swatches of territory and were visible on approach, in camp, on route etc. they were presumable able to see our every move. Add web cams, traffic cams forest service cams etc. and most thing can be seen. Do they have the ability to coordinate this info across agencies or is it just more random data?

Klimmer

Mountain climber

San Diego

Mar 25, 2010 - 05:41pm PT

link:

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2010/mar/16/francis-marion-has-hidden-cameras/

flakyfoont

Trad climber

carsoncity nv

Mar 25, 2010 - 06:29pm PT

Rokjox, another great RF finder is the Alan Broadband Zapchecker. many models to choose from.1mhz to 8mhz , 3mhz-5mhz and also 1mhz to 14mhz. (twice as high as 802.11a wireless. $90.00- $700.00. Ive had one for over 10 years. It has saved me a hassel or two from stray, or transmitted RF fields of many types. (and many purposes). Good to about 80 feet..But will also detect very strong directed Microwave transmissions from along ways off. Its claim to fame is its millivolt detection capabilities. can pick up even the smallest of bugs. http:// www.zapchecker.com
Alot of these remote type transmitters transmit via meteor scatter batched information bursts. similar to backcountry SNOTEL snow monitoring sites , and also USGS remote sites.

WBraun

climber

Mar 25, 2010 - 06:44pm PT

Zapchecker .... pure junk.

Here's the good stuff.

http://www.bvsystems.com/

And this is the Cadillac of hand held scanners. Rohde and Schwarz FSH series Handheld Spectrum Analysers.

Most of those cameras in the forest are not wireless. They just collect data either single frame or a timed set of frames according to how they are set up and for what purpose the camera has been put into service.

There's a lot of wildlife monitor cameras in strategic places in the US.

There's now a wireless video monitor camera at Arch Rock entrance station in the parking lot.

flakyfoont

Trad climber

carsoncity nv

Mar 25, 2010 - 07:19pm PT

ya werner, Rohde&Schwartz are the cream of the crop. Way out of my price range.For bouncing around the bottom of my backpack under tools on top of towers, my zapchecker has lasted 10 yrs!!! Excellant for finding just about any source of Rf and any feild strength.

corniss chopper

Mountain climber

san jose, ca

Mar 25, 2010 - 08:16pm PT

Additional info: That spy cam was sending images automatically
through its antennae good enough to read the guys license plate.
Frack!!!

That means they've spent the money to point a dedicated cell phone antennae at these locations of the spy cams.

And that means your cell phone will of course try to ping a connection
(here I am) as they always do automatically, which will identify you as camping there.

But the cell phone link will probably be programmed to not allow you to
call out. You may not have any bars. Just a guess.

Suggest turning off your phone and just to be sure wrapping it tightly
in aluminum foil to avoid active ID'ing pings of an OFF phone by an overly
sophisticated spy cam rig.

Barbarian

Trad climber

The great white north, eh?

Mar 25, 2010 - 08:26pm PT

Abandoned camera found in the woods?

After 24 hours its Booty!

If they can haul my stuff down after 24 hours. I claim the same right. But not to worry, they can get their stuff back. I'll be selling it on eBay.

corniss chopper

Mountain climber

san jose, ca

Mar 25, 2010 - 08:37pm PT

Rokjox - Well this does not look like a satellite phone antennae.
Looks like a dipole of the freq range used by cells.

Anyway the question begs of how did the Forest Service know to call the guy to get their spy cam back? Picture recognition for comparison to millions
of random drivers license faces?
Which still means the rig sent a photo with a usable image for tracking before the guy bagged it.

corniss chopper

Mountain climber

san jose, ca

Mar 25, 2010 - 09:00pm PT

You're right Rok. He called the local LEO's who probably called the Forest Service spies guys.
So what do you think that antennae is for? It does look directional
unless its a fake.

corniss chopper

Mountain climber

san jose, ca

Mar 25, 2010 - 09:20pm PT

No worries Rok.

And thats the east coast. Coverage for radio/phones has more overlap than
out here.
Guess I'd have to research that unit and see if it just transmits
"memory full" "come and service me" or if it does send real JPEG
images or a thumbnail or varieties of both.

It still seems way intrusive.

Imagine being arrested for supplying alcohol to a minor because when your
back was turned your teens snatched a few beers from the cooler and the
camera snapped images of the horrible 'crime'.

MisterT

Trad climber

little blue truck

Mar 25, 2010 - 10:09pm PT

I found one once looking for firewood. I spun it around to face the opposite way. Maybe I should have picked it up like the trash it was.

Wack

climber

Dazevue

Mar 25, 2010 - 11:55pm PT

A few years ago on the way out from the Wonderland near Pak Man Rock we found what we believed to be a counter. It was in a brown metal box about 2"H x 6"E x 8"L strapped to a rock under a bush. It was pretty light, the lens looked like a door peephole and it was unmarked. We hoped it was only to get a count on users so we did not recycle it as trash. Perhaps we were being generous as we found a Barker about a 100 yards out from the Gunsmoke spying on the climbers with a pair of binos.

Minerals

Social climber

The Deli

Mar 26, 2010 - 01:59am PT

Yeah, ditto on the scientific monitoring devices, Wes and Peter. Please leave them be, folks! I have yet to see a device intended for scientific purposes that is not clearly marked as to who it belongs to and its (legitimate) purpose.

Last year, while poking around the abandoned Kaiser/Baxter fluorite mine (central Nevada), I noticed a black cable (looked just like the coax cable for a TV…) that popped out of the ground, but it was cut just a few feet up. The rest of the cable ran up the hill slope. Hmmm… So I walked up to the top of the hill and sure enough… found a steel fence pole mounted in concrete with a solar panel on top and an electronics box on the side, with an antenna attached to it. Nevada Seismo Lab – there was a metal plaque with all of the information that you needed to know as to what was going on, including phone numbers. Earthquake monitoring.

Yup, some redneck thought it would be fun to chop whatever cable they found, even though they probably had no idea what they were messing with. Lame. Do people really have to f*#k with things just to amuse themselves?

Back in town, while visiting my professor, I stopped by the seismo office to just say hello and tell them what I found (although I figured that they already knew, as if the dead signal wasn’t a clue…). They had known for a while, but it was fun to hear a little bit about their setup. Apparently, they ran cable down the main inclined mine shaft and the guy said that it was way gnarly to go down far enough to place the censor (sorry Cleo… help me out here!). Having looked down that shaft, and many others and adits that don’t look so inviting, I can imagine that it wasn’t the highlight of his job.

Oh, and for the “other” monitoring… Pffft… Like they don’t have tabs on me already… Cell phone? Heh… I can disappear from all of you into the abyss but if they really want to, they can watch me on any clear day with their space toys (and not like the F/A-18s don’t pinpoint the DS every day as it is… Common… Fly LOWER!!!). But I would imagine that it gets pretty boring to watch a geologist wander back and forth, from outcrop to outcrop, trying to figure out what the heck is going on.

Oh, schist… did I say outCROP??????

Anyways, more excessive rambling from a self-centered introvert… :)

What’s this? A still camera for scientific/environmental purposes? It showed up late season, about 10 or 12 feet up a lodgepole on the northwest side of the outlet of Tenaya Lake and is roughly pointed at Tenaya Peak.

10/18/2009, 10:10 AM

Levy

Big Wall climber

So Cal

Mar 26, 2010 - 02:52am PT

This is one of the most interesting O.T. threads in a long, long time.

Thanks for sharing this!

Radish

Trad climber

SeKi, California

Mar 26, 2010 - 10:36am PT

A quick scan of this post and I don't think I saw anything about growers. I don't know if any of you relize how prolific this activity is these days. Everywhere there's water is suspect. Yes, Everywhere. Yosemite and Sequoia has full time teams looking for the stuff. They use all possible tecnoligees.I'll bet most of these cameras are watching for this.

couchmaster

climber

pdx

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2010 - 04:58pm PT

What do you tech guys think would be the best device for under $400 to scan and find these cameras?

Saw this, which doesn't appear to be for sale yet, and looks like it will be way out of the $ range.

I saw this, but it seemed geared to finding a pinhole camera in a home, and not geared for driving up a FS road with one looking for a small camera in a large haystack so to speak. However, at $80, it seems priced right:-)

This looks like it might do the trick:
$295.00 - it's in the price range.
More info: http://www.spygadgets.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=LS4X&Category_Code=4

Anyone have any input on any of this or a better recommendation?

Willoughby

Social climber

Truckee, CA

Apr 6, 2010 - 07:00pm PT

Back in my Ph.D. days, I ran an array of four cameras at one of my study sites, aimed at bird nests. I was trying to identify nest predators.

Anyway, my system was set up to shoot VHF signals back to a central receiver, which dumped all the footage onto a computer that ran off of monster deep-cycle marine batteries (which I got to hump up the mountain and swap out almost every day, since the sun just wasn't keeping these things charged up).

I didn't learn a whole lot about my nest predators, but I did learn a lot about solar power and making stuff from Radio Shack parts and such, and the fact that VHF signals don't shoot through the woods very well. Not that long ago, but antique technology at this point.

I'll be putting some more modern gear out next winter here in Tahoe, to try and document the range and status of white-tailed jackrabbits. Any harvested, unmarked, big-brother gear would be a welcome addition to my supply closet, so all you would-be camera hunters, please keep me in mind.

couchmaster

climber

pdx

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2014 - 10:00am PT

Fort mental, the post courier link works, the West Slope link to that article wasn't direct but to their front page, of which this story is off by now. I see that link isn't working but you should be able to track it down here: http://www.westernslopenofee.org/

This is an interesting adjunct to that story which seemingly reinforces the top story. This story indicates that the Forest Service has bought license plate reader software, which they wouldn't need unless they had cameras tracking plates. I will copy paste the story for longevity, and the link at the bottom. I bolded the line about the FS, it wasn't printed that way. BTW, this doesn't mean that they only spend this much on license plate tracking software, they may have spent $10 million - who can say we may never know, but what this means is that they are definatly in the game.

"IRS Among Agencies Using License Plate-Tracking Vendor
By Kathleen Miller Apr 16, 2014 9:00 PM PT

The Internal Revenue Service and other U.S. agencies awarded about $415,000 in contracts to a license plate-tracking company before Homeland Security leaders dropped a plan for similar work amid privacy complaints.

Federal offices such as the Forest Service and the U.S. Air Force’s Air Combat Command chose Livermore, California-based Vigilant Solutions to provide access to license plate databases or tools used to collect plate information, according to government procurement records compiled by Bloomberg.

Vigilant, a closely held company, has received such work since 2009. In February, Jeh Johnson, secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, ordered the cancelation of an immigration agency plan to buy access to national license plate data. While the technology can help solve crimes, the American Civil Liberties Union and other groups have said the mass collection of data infringes the privacy of innocent people.

“Especially with the IRS, I don’t know why these agencies are getting access to this kind of information,” said Jennifer Lynch, a senior staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a San Francisco-based privacy-rights group. “These systems treat every single person in an area as if they’re under investigation for a crime -- that is not the way our criminal justice system was set up or the way things work in a democratic society.”

IRS officials awarded the company a $1,188 contract for “access to nationwide data” in June 2012, according to records available online. That contract ended in May 2013, according to federal procurement records.
Agencies Involved

“The IRS uses a variety of investigative tools similar to other law-enforcement agencies to assist with criminal cases,” Eric Smith, an agency spokesman, said in an e-mail. He declined to say how the IRS used the records in its investigations.

The Forest Service, part of the Department of Agriculture, awarded Vigilant a contract valued at as much as $47,019 for its “CarDetector” system in August 2009, records show. The product scans and captures license plate numbers, compares the data to law enforcement lists of wanted vehicles and sends alerts when such vehicles are detected, according to the company’s website.

Forestry officials also awarded the company a contract valued at about $7,500 in August for a subscription to its license plate database and other services, according to contracting records.

“License plate readers are helpful to our law enforcement officers with illegal activities on national forest system lands in California,” Tiffany Holloway, a spokeswoman for the agency, said in an e-mail. She declined to comment about what types of crimes the tools are used to investigate or provide examples of how the technology has helped law enforcement.
Vigilant’s Work

Vigilant provides some data for free to federal and state law enforcement agencies, Brian Shockley, the company’s vice president of marketing, said in an e-mailed statement. The information has been used to “solve crimes and save lives,” he said.

The company has local, state and federal agency customers, he said, declining to comment about its work for the federal government and how it may have supported national security.

Most of the federal contracts were awarded years before former contractor Edward Snowden last year exposed vast U.S. surveillance programs that intercepted the phone records of many Americans. In the aftermath, lawmakers in more than a dozen states weighed legislation this year to limit license-plate tracking, according to the Denver-based National Conference of State Legislatures.
ACLU Complaints

The ACLU, which also has pushed for state measures limiting use of the technology, criticized the Homeland Security Department for a February solicitation seeking to buy access to the data. The department’s Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agency had planned to use the records to help locate and arrest “absconders and criminal aliens,” according to a federal document seeking companies’ proposals.

The agency halted the solicitation, saying immigration officials weren’t aware it had been posted.

Federal procurement records show it has awarded contracts valued at as much as $175,000 to Vigilant since 2011. Most are now expired. The other contracts with Vigilant are separate from the February solicitation, Barbara Gonzalez, press secretary for the immigration agency, said in an e-mail.

They provide “limited access to an already-existing database for a defined amount of time and only in conjunction with ongoing criminal investigations and to locate wanted individuals,” Gonzalez said.
Privacy Concerns

Even so, concerns about the government’s use of the data remain, said Kade Crockford, a project director with the ACLU of Massachusetts.

“The American public deserves to know the degree to which the Department of Homeland Security and other agencies are already tapping into these databases,” Crockford said in a phone interview. “The cancellation of the solicitation itself has no measurable impact on the existing reality, which is that we are all being tracked right now.”

Other federal offices, including the Justice Department’s Drug Enforcement Administration, Federal Bureau of Investigation and U.S. Marshals Service, have awarded contracts to Vigilant for access to its records or tracking tools.

The Air Force’s Air Combat Command awarded Vigilant a contract for license plate readers valued at as much as $114,000 in September 2011, according to online federal data. The license plate readers are a “valuable tool” that help make base access “easier and more secure,” said Benjamin Newell, a spokesman for the Air Combat Command.
‘Stopping Crime’

“The more aware we are of who is entering a military facility, the better we are able to protect the lives and equipment on that base,” Newell said in a phone interview.

NetChoice, a Washington-based trade association that represents e-commerce businesses, is concerned that groups opposing the tools offer “no recognition at all of the benefits of license plate recognition in stopping crime or saving lives,” said Steve DelBianco, its executive director.

Companies that collect the data or sell the technology have strict guidelines about who can obtain records, he said.

“Our governments require us to display a plate on our cars, visible on the front and back in public, for a reason,” DelBianco said in a phone interview. “A lot of the concern is a knee-jerk reaction to Snowden revelations.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-17/irs-among-agencies-using-license-plate-tracking-vendor.html

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Apr 19, 2014 - 11:49am PT

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140415/07371926919/la-sheriffs-dept-new-surveillance-program-we-knew-public-wouldnt-like-it-so-we-kept-it-secret.shtml

This was followed up by another statement from an LAPD official, who noted that frogs generally come around to the idea of being boiled to death.

The center’s commanding officer, Capt. John Romero, recognizes the concerns but equates them with public resistance to street lights in America’s earliest days.

“People thought that this is the government trying to see what we’re doing at night, to spy on us,” Romero said. “And so over time, things shifted, and now if you try to take down street lights in Los Angeles or Boston or anywhere else, people will say no.”

There's no honesty or accountability in these statements. There's only an admission that Los Angeles law enforcement feels the public is there to serve them and not the other way around. Hiding your plans from the public doesn't instill confidence that their rights will be respected. Neither does telling them they'll "get used to it." Instead, it creates an even more antagonistic environment, one where the public is viewed as a nuisance at best by people whose power is derived from the same citizens they so obviously have no respect for.

Lorenzo

Trad climber

Oregon

Apr 19, 2014 - 12:15pm PT

There has been one on the mt st Hellen's South face route for years. Probably several since the place blew.

Kalimon

Social climber

Ridgway, CO

Apr 20, 2014 - 12:20pm PT

And what is Werner working on all day for the NPS?

From what I gather he is out saving and recovering mangled people . . . An extremely noble activity by any measure.

zBrown

Ice climber

Brujo de la Playa

Apr 20, 2014 - 12:30pm PT

Can you rent the films on Netflix?

I met a guy who does installs for the Navy. There are miles and miles of cable in the ocean around San Diego. Rumour is that they also take photos from above.

Apparently this has been going on for some time.