Donini- Tons of cracks on single and
half-pitch climbs. (Hey, c'mon out
and take on Positive Vibrations with
me this summer, I'll let you lead the
Leonardo- I haven't been out there yet this
season but according to Chim-Chim, a
local, snow's pretty much melted out on winterside
and pockets of summer heat on sunny days.
This burly offwidth is easily toproped and seldom led. The crux comes just a few feet off the ground but the climbing remains physical and sustained to the top. Some advanced offwidth climbers use the "leavittation" technique but most climbers just throw in a knee, make a chicken wing, and struggle. Wear long sleeves and pants and you may want to tape your hands and ankles. Climb this route in cooler temperatures--even if it is near freezing the strenuous moves will keep you warm. Don't be discouraged if it takes you multiple visits to this climb to finally get it. Once you do, you?ll be ready to tackle most 5.10 and easier offwidths and squeeze chimneys in Yosemite.
Right on, Nutjob!
This means you're ropegun-
capable for offwidths this summer.
Is there anything up-canyon, near hope valley outdoors (is it still called that that, I used to work there) and the campground?
Seems like just cross canyon (at the bend in the canyon to the right when you're going downhill) there is some potential and just behind hope valley outdoors on the hillside is a spectacular roof crack.
Joyce, my old boss used to tell me stories about her days chilling with climbers in the valley in the '70's and even better stories about Dan-O climbing that roof crack behind the store.
Donini- Nice to hear! What did you have in mind,
CTC (twice) or camping? PM me with the details you
have in mind. Might have to "grab and go" in places on
Sunspot (quite more sustained than PV) but yeah!
Up close and personal on Sunspot would be sweet. If
aided, I'd just have to come back and get it free later.
Chim- If the weather's good this week, count me in. Nice
to have you back.
I wish human cloning was legal then I could get something done.
I finally got up there to climb. I got a tour from a local who seemed to have alot of information about climbs
5.12b that aren't found in the Woodfords pdf file. The rock is a bit coarse in spots but the jam cracks are some of the best i've seen in the Tahoe area. Not to be missed if you like pure crack climbing. Potential is nearlly unlimited but you mighht be dissapointed that the f.a. that you just did has evidence of a prior ascent. Thousands of fine climbs if you like adventure. I sure would have liked to have busy in recent years as the number of new climbs has increased dramatically... but there's still lots to do. Don
difficult decision between here and sugarloaf.....but never been to woodfords, and it sounds pretty damn good. so headed there with a couple friends for thursday and friday. already printed off the guidebook from the obscurities page. any y'all locals got any more beta on where to go this time of year? cliffs, routes, access, whatever info would be great. also wondering what the camping situation is. is there any dispersed camping in those parts if the stuff by the river is snowed in? coming from truckee, so its just a bit too long for a day trip....seems like we'll need at least a couple days anyways to get a feel for the place. thanks, matt
thanks guys....got some of the stuff off mountain project, looks like plenty to entertain. hopefully we'll run into you and i can scum some more beta...we'll be the ones with two big dogs. cheers, matt
thanks for all the beta. we didn't get a whole ton of climbing in today (my partners left around 1 PM) but checked out the Books area. the 5.8 was phenomenal, and cat scratch fever was cool too (except for the death flake low on the route). didn't get on any of the harder or newer stuff this time, next time i'll check it out. o.u.l.d. and mr. personality looked pretty cool, the rock is reminiscent of the new stuff in pine creek near bishop. overall, woodfords gets a BIG thumbs up! everything we got on was 4-5 star quality, and we barely scratched the surface. looking forward to a guidebook coming out, kind of hard to find your way around there on your own....a little too much rock. i'd have to say that woodfords is probably my new winter destination (sorry sugarloaf). anyways thanks for all your hard work, i'll hit you up next time i'm in the area. cheers, matt
Really looking forward to your guide Dan ...Although it might be the demise of that little "gem" of an area....Been occassionally falling my way up classics around "Fords" since the 70's. Your devotion to the area is admirable. Best wishes and keep up the good work.
We were suckered into the sandy direct ascent! Too lazy to keep going to the knoll :)
There really is an amazing amount of route potential up there... just cataloging it all is going to be an effort similar to the Jtree guidebook.
Footloose and msiddens, I was definitely thinking of you boys when I headed up there! Overall I'm still in the midst of my Yosemite obsession years, but I'll keep spicing it up with Woodfords as needed.
Jaybro- Why not grab Zander or Em or Nutjob, come up, it'll give us a chance to meet, and I'll show you the wide in the first picture. It's called the Big Bad Wolf and getting to it is an effectively nice calorie burner. (If that's part of your goal structure.) :)
Chim- Can't wait to hear all about it. Makes me terribly envious. I'd ask if I could join you and Shawn Monday but think the weather's going to be sketch:
Dan, Sasha and Friends of Woodfords
I would like to get a little group together up there for some camping and story telling as well as sharing beta on the areas. I am willing to BBQ my ass off to feed anyone and make arrangements for a little Woodfords Fest.
If anyone is interested please let me know and we can start planning some dates or two.
Footy 20% Chance of Slight Snow 46 degrees ...Its a Woodfords Day!!!!!
At the top of OOTD in the channel / chimney next to
the anchors were two heavyweight loose blocks. I grew sick
and tired of them there always creeping me out. For
a couple of reasons. But one was if they ever let loose their
drop zone after exiting the channel and after 115' freefall straight down
was the belay zone.
So yesterday, opportunity presented itself to trundle them so I did.
With the energy output of two dynamite explosions.
So check it out when you can. Next time I go up I'll clean the
channel of the remaining sand. I called it a nice improvement.
You're probably up there today. Have fun. My forearms will
be sore for days after yesterday. What a blast!
There were chalk marks on Zebra wall a couple of years ago other than there are no signs of climbers on that wall for many years. Looks like lots of steep lines there. Those bolts on Wolf Creek have been gone for at least 8 years or more.
Most of the stuff up 4 is just volcanic mud flows, there may be some that is solid but I am not sure. In the high country around there Henry Peak has some basalt columns I have heard rumors of them being climbed. This formation is also near the the road but when I tried it years ago everything was loose.
It's been warm and dry for a while now--65+degrees today at my place near Gardnerville. There is a lot of snow around, so seepy lines will probably be wet, but there have been climbers around and the rock looks great.
PM me--i have lots of free time and the skiing sucks right now...
I'm in the process of relocating to south lake and am really anxious to check out woodfords. I drove through there a few weeks ago, man there looks like a lot of climable rock there. Hoping someone can show me this incredible lieback.
I went to Woodfords for my first time last Sunday with my girlfriend. parked at the fortress and realized i forgot the Rope...DOH.....so we just hiked around the crag....Awesome area...plan on heading back this sunday to climb the perfect lieback........good times...
Man, it's starting to sound like you could get one hell of a solo circuit figured out up there at Woodfords with all the moderate climbing there is. Sometimes it's just nice to get alot of vertical mileage in with just a chalk bag and shoes. With all the short, quality lines, sounds like it'd be alot of fun in addition to roping it up on some of the harder lines.
Hey, I've been eager to see photos of the fortress area
from the highway for the longest time now. From before the Fire.
Bill G was supposed to send me some I think at one point
but I never got to see any.
Anyone have any to share?
All that logging might explain why the area's
quite clear of detritus.
My car was one of them. Fun day. The perfect lie-back is pretty perfect. I was wondering about rattlesnakes, thanks for the update. We found the descent trail and commented how we would hate to go up it.
Hi NM, I think maybe you came over to the Books at the start of the day and chatted with my partner and I? I gave you some beta. If so, nice to meet you guys and hopefully we'll see ya out there again.
Climbed out at Woodfords today, really nice day and we were the only ones out there. Climbed OULD and the first few pitches of hand of God among others.
Question, can someone tell me what the first pitch of hand of god is rated (the variation with the bolts on the face), it felt 11ish but I suck at ratings, also what is the stellar looking last pitch go at.
that face to the left of OOTD is .12a that a friend of mine named Paul bolted. It used to be a bit grainy but has cleaned up in the last few years.
The rope around the corner that some people were commenting on earlier was probably from my friend Walt who sometime leaves one there to tr solo OOTD.
He sticks it around the corner to be out of sight. I don't think Paul ever left a rope ther but I could be wrong.
Hello climbers, I'm looking for a partner in the Lake Tahoe vicinity to climb for the day on Saturday, May 14th. Anyone available? I'm happy swapping leads (5.10 sporto, 5.9 trad, multi-good) but won't have gear other than personal wares.
Hey Dan, First off thank you for all the hard work you have put in at Woodfords. I know it can be a thankless task. Let me assure you that I did not take a sh#t up there. I have been climbing for nearly 20 years and always practice and teach a low impact approach. The day I was up there there was evidence of others having been up there recently. I don't appreciate being blamed for someone elses sh#t just because I posted on an internet forum looking for information. I am not looking to get into an internet pissing (shitting match) I don't have time for that. Was just looking for some beta NBD, I guess I'll just go climb the thing. Again thank you for all of your effort at Woodfords, I look forward to meeting you out there.
Yeah, Chim, I'd say it's tough 12-! Thanks for posting the description up on mproject, I'm "zeke" there. So, since I already spoiled my onsight (really spoiled) do you go straight over the bolt, or do you trend left or right to get by the crux? I was seeing a sequence where you could go right of the bolt line and link it through, but, damn, it'd be tough either way. High quality line.
Yeah, the steeple looked way cool. It definitely catches the eye. I'll have to hit that next.
Finally made it to check out this "hidden gem"! No wonder we didn't see anyone out there both days we were there! Total choss pile in a desert-like wasteland! Had to bushwack through manzanita the whole time, and carry a big stick to fight off all the rattlers! I would not recommend going here...EVER! I have pics to prove it!
OK, so maybe we missed the trail to OOTD on the way up, but we ran into it halfway up, and it was a breeze on the way down! ;)
See how sketchy this stream crossing was? Stupid snow(melt)! I wouldn't risk it if I were you!
My buddy Eric warming up on Bush League! That's what this whole place is! Stay at The Leap. Remember my motto, if you can't see the car, you've gone too far! ;)
See, what an ugly canyon to sit and lounge in between climbs!
We all struggled at the roof! My buddy had one of those 60 minute endurance fests while leading it! Wish we had beta on those roof moves!
Then we get over to Nevada/Utah border and there is a bush in the middle of the climb! Screw this adventure climbing nonsense! (Chim Chim and other locals, is it alright to remove that bush?)
If I were to go back, and once again, I wouldn't recommend it, this barren wasteland is where I'll go. Seems like the crowds are worse over there though!
I difficult to even justify replying to an obvious troll, but we did watch you dog the roof o ootd for about an hour... maybe you should stay at the leap, espescially if you can't even follow an obvioius trail. Adveture climbing isn't for pussies. I heard Pipeworks is fun.
Yeah, I think their was some heavy sarcasm in that TR... Bad day Chim?
edit: I'd probably dog the roof too, should I go back to Rocksport?
I did the Hillside Strangler, that thing is absolutely top quality, loved it. Looked at some of those other things you mentioned, as well as some other things not in the old topo that have clearly been climbed, but day was winding down and they were in direct hot sun. Next time!
I did not love UT/NV, despite the ha ha rating. For a 50 foot climb, it has like 8 feet of good climbing, and 40 feet of downright lousy climbing. Rotten flake, shrub, 3rd class ramp strewn with loose rocks.
Well, I'm glad my shitty post kept the Woodfords thread on the front page most of the day! I wasn't trying to be a dick Chim-Chim, I'm just good at it! Thanks for all the work you've done out at this great area. Say hi next time you see my dogging! ;)
That was a good one by Dan-O! Got us for sure! LOL!
Looking for a Tahoe area partner for tomorrow, Saturday. Doesn't have to be Woodfords, can do any area around Tahoe. Would be down for something adventurous, like Sector 20. Also interested in stuff on Flagpole if anyone wants to show me around. PM or reply here.
I have not read this whole thread so I appologize for the questions, but what kind of rock is the Woodfords? I saw a picture posted by Seth K. and it kind of looked like sandstone. How big is it? Is it mostly trad(my preference if I were to travel there)? Do you need a tour or can you figure it out with a guide book? It sure looks cool though and when I someday get the time and money to travel to cali again I would love to hit up some of these places that are off the beaten path a little.
Woodfords thread is awful quiet for the winter we've been having
Anyone know about the small canyons above Mama Cat and Big Bertha boulders?
I think there are about 4 small canyons. Anyone know there names?
The more eastern ones, close to Deadwood Canyon, have walls that are nice and tall!
Hiked up there a few times. Took 45-60 minutes depending how much I was wondering around looking at cool rock.
The canyon directly above the big gravel parking lot on the south side of the hwy has a real nice wall about 400' tall. It has a huge roof system in the middle of the wall about 200' up. There was a bolt and an escape biner 30' up on the left side of the wall. It was above a discontinuous finger crack. Looked scary. One hell of a drilling stance. Anyone know anything?
My climbing partner and I did a route in one of the crack systems that led us pretty far right of the huge roofs. It took us to the big ledge 200' up. This ledge spands almost the whole wall. We went left and scrambled up a gully to the summit. Great view!!! When we came down we went back to the right on the big ledge and rapped off a 10' pine tree. Noticed a few chalk marks on the rap. Someone TRing from the tree I guess? Looked like you could scramble up to the tree from the ground on the far right of the wall.
So the route we did was really dirty, has big bushes that we climbed through, and has a few loose blocks. We want to go and clean it. My big deal is I don't want to step on anyone's feet. If anyone knows anything about this area let me know on this tread or PM me. I'll try to get some good pics next time I go up there.
With the horrendous backcountry snow conditions for the weekend, we are thinking of going to woodfords for some easy peasy climbing on sunday...we are out of climbing shape. Anyone going to be there this weekend. We did left and right branch last summer on our way back from the eastside, but that was about it. Hoping to hit up the northside of the road this time, but a little mystified about what area has the most easy .6-.9's. The pdf guide is pretty limited in this area, but thinking they must lurk out there. I assume the authors were just not too interested. Should we just wander around the fortress trying to pick off 4th class climbs, hoping to score something only slightly harder. Hoping to do just a bit of exploring in the sun, and avoid the soon to form water ice and wind all over the backcountry. Sugestions?
There are only a couple climbs established in that grade range up there. I would suggest Luther Spires which gets great afternoon sun and which has been quite warm of late, with not much snow on the trail in. It's in the SLT Supertopo guide. However latest forecast shows cold arriving sooner than expected with temps dropping tomorrow and wind affecting the whole area. If at Woodfords, perfect lieback jumps to mind or there is another 5.8 way left of there in the books area, but it's a lot of hiking for limited climbing in those grades, not to mention the last time I was up there, just a couple weeks ago those climbs were mobbed. My 2 cents.
I mean, the Fortress is the prime digs, although there's a 5.9 near the Mama Cat boulder I've seen in the topos. There are a few in the range... Perfect Lieback, Quoia the Destroya (cool 5.9) just right of I Be Jammin' (5.9...+?), Whisker Biscuit 5.9 (might be a little heady at the top), The Other Lieback 5.9, Red Pillar, the 5.7 and 5.8 climbs near Cat Scratch Fever. It looks like a hearty handful but things tend to go slowly up there in my experience. By the time you've done the slog up, you don't feel like sprinting through the manzanita and these climbs have a bit of up and down and slogging around between them.
So, there's that one seven I can think of, some decent eight, and moderate to hard nine. I always find Woodfords to climb the grade. Again, it may be that pre-drain of the hike speaking. I'd go for it though, it's a prime winter location.
yeah, perfect layback definitely came to mind. I just figured, there is so much rock around there, there might by some crags that are lower angle with 4th class and up, depending on what you pick. Looking up the hills there is just too much rock not to hold plenty of easy climbing.
Cookie cliff area looks promising just because not much is invested from a time situation.
I don't mind walking or figuring or bushwacking (most likely the case), I just want to maximize my chances for a successful climbing day, complete with a solid workout. Last time we were there, we ended up spending more time trying to find stuff than climbing (hence only two climbs...actually really just one with two different finishes). Maybe we will tick off a few climbs near cracker cliff first to ensure some climbing. After a couple pitches, maybe we will just try to pick an easy rock and see if there are some easy cracks that go. Things lower down the canyon as it opens up look like they have some seriously easy faces. Granted you have to climb a 500ft tall kitty litter dune...
what's up with those "other" areas Ron? do you have more detail on the cliffs between the fortress and suicide falls? I hiked all the way up the canyon passing the penile pillar (what's that insanely beautiful crack on the east side of that?!!) and crossed the canyon, to the east, continued up and right, crossing another canyon where I came accross a face that faces west with some longish cracks on it. Scoped that out and continued down where in a large alcove came across some anchors above a crazy overhanging feature.....any info appreciated!!!
There's a couple of good moderates past the second alcove. I don't know if they're in the PDF, but there's a great 5.7 hand crack, a cool 5.9 finger crack and a funky 5.8 offwidth. I'd be happy to show you but i'm gonna try to get some skiing in this weekend. If it stays warm, email me and I'd be happy to cruise up to the Canyon with you.
Thanks Ron. It's nice to know there is plenty of adventure and fresh stone in the back yard, even in 2012. I hiked out to Pleasant Valley a couple summers having seen a blurb somehwere's and saw some beautiful stone. Didn't know how accommodating the fishing reserve folks are so parked up the road a way. Is that eally private property to the trail head? Is there an alternative approach from Grover side?
Never been to Woodfords to climb, but after driving by it thousands of times and thinking it looked like a good place to climb, I am thinking about heading there to check it out soon. From reading this forum it sounds like there is climbing on both the North and South side of the road is that correct?
At this point I am pretty out of shape so I am looking for the routes the easier side, any recommendations? Anything about the area, approach, parking that I should be aware of before I go?
This is bandit buttress. Heading west from Woodford station about half a mile there is a huge parking area on the left. Park there. Head across the highway and you should find a well defined trail. There are four bolted climbs on it. Ill try to get the topo on it later. To the left is a 5.7-5.8 bolted crack (A break in security)...(I didnt do it so leave it alone) It is actually a really good place to teach trad leading as if they get nervous there is a bolt to clip instead of gear. Middle route is 5.8 bolted (Prowler). It shares and anchor with the next climb to the right of it at 5.9 (cat burglar). Around the side is a 4 bolt 5.10 (Cervazas in Zapata Land) All FA by Brian Chandler and Larry Van Sant
Theme is "leave the gear and bring the beer"
70 Meter rope is needed expecially for "break in security"
There is a trad route further to the right of Cervezas in Zapata land I put up in 2008 5.8 R that follows a corner system to the top. No anchor with a walk off. FOLLOF (Fear of Love Love of Fear
The gulley to the left of Bandit Buttres is a 3 route trad wall called April Fools wall. Put up by Dan Kennedy and Myself 4-1-08
You can see it to the left in the above picture
April Fools Wall
Chim pulling up the bag o drill for the anchor placement
Anchors are below the tallest point where Dan is hanging out
Dirty 5.8 to the left
Middle crack 5.10 (where the pig is in the pic)
Right crack is 5.9
Can be run out before the anchors. Place a small cam at your feet on a ledge or you run it our 20+ feet to anchors.
That's definately an awesome route and there are many other cool lines around I'm trying to get a hold of a topo for some of the surrounding routes. Tomorrow afternoon I think will just climb what looks good and figure it out later.
Finally got on "one of these days" today. Great route, even though I missed the onsight by about 10 feet. I'll be back:)
Good go, Gomez! Did you "warm up" on it? I barely squeaked out the onsight with OOTD as a warmup and I will NOT be doing that again. I got away with something on that one. Let me know when you're headed back there, that would be some good endurance training for the bigger stuff ;).
The face climb(s) to the left of OOTD look pretty righteous as well.
Yep "warmed up" on it I was pretty warm within the first 20 or so feet though:) I messed up at the top and tried to go too high, fell off and hung and saw the right way, felt like 5.9 once I saw the line. Oh well, I'll get it next time. That thing is pumpy though for sure.
good job Gomez!!! there is a decent .10a to the right that is good to warm up on. not great, but does serve as a good warm up. You can also TR a sweet .11 off the ten as well. I'll give you a shout tomorrow and catch up with ya!!
kenny t - i believe the short corner is a 5.9 and fun. then up and next to it a bolted 5.9ish. then behind that is a 10c- ish thing called green tongue, i think, not positive on the name. then to the right down lower from that is a 5.8 route and have fun.
Damn you guys are killin me with woodfords talk. As Dave G knows I'm In the middle of moving and can't get my cragging on for a while. Ron I've been saying for years we need a good ole get together in the canyon. Hopefully this summer/fall we can set something up. Have fun out there and hope to be out in a couple of weeks
Ativan grin 10b. Longest Left leaning white streak on the right side of pic and Halcion hallucination 5.9 to the right. Another 5.9 ish to the right of Halcion
Ron, Dano told me about that arete behind the cabin in the early 90s and I stopped by and there were no bolts up high then. I don't know whats up with that you could steal two hangers without hardly leaving the ground. I live two minutes away pm me if you want to fix it up it looks perty cool.
Ron gave me some hardware to fix that route a couple years ago. If you want to go out and fix it I'm in. Unfortunately my hardware is buried in storage for two weeks. If you have some I will replace it with bolts from Ron's donation. What's your schedule like? I have Friday sat Sunday off. Friday probably is best for me but I'm flexible
Gomz. Your welcome. Those were my first routes I ever put up. Three days hanging to clear out the cracks.
I know of 5 plus routes near One Of These Days that you might enjoy. I did two onsights the other day. and there are three to five other climbs I know of in Cloudburst Canyon. Let's try to get out there soon!
hey, i found one grey sock(not sticky) and a nice one dollar bill at the base of that 5.9 plus dihedral across from green tongue. im keeping the dollar. also dan, one in my party released a torso sized block off duststorm. its at the base, buried in the dirt. later.
I'll split the bolt count and anchors with you for cloud walker
Just want to be in on that one. Been wanting to finish that one with chim for a couple years. Chim and I had the bolt placements marked a couple years ago and got caught up on other projects.
Keep me in the loop when you want to do it. Busting ass on Burningman stuff right now but would be ready to hit it after the burn
If any locals want to drop in, I'll be at Woodfords tomorrow for a few sets on One of These Days. Just let me know.
My shoulders and back need strength maintenance if not building, ha! for an upcoming high sierra project. Took it for granted on a recent Mithral Dihedral ctc that ended up spanking them. And me. Humbly. (Of course, one could also argue it was my lousy core and footwork given that glorious crack, I wouldn't argue the point.)
At my age, there's no more taking this sport for granted. Serious stuff!
It's interesting that 3/8 sleeve anchors only have a 5/16 threaded core. That leans me as a noob bolter to think of preferring the wedge anchor whose size matches the threaded core. Example: 3/8 equals 3/8. But then I'm only a noob thinking about this.
I checked into White Cap, guy's going to call me back with price.
bolts vs studs
So is there a push in Woodfords to go with removeable bolts rather than nonremoveable studs?
I mean, if I set a few anchors with SS wedge studs now that it's the 21st century, not the 20th, anyone like Kenny or Dan or Ron (or that guy in the video using a torque wrench) going to bitch slap me for my choice? :)
Or maybe I'm just overthinking it and should just go get it done.
I think the gondolas a few years out. Hey Dan, Bauer was gonna give me the tour but he's leaving town for a few maybe you can show me around next time your heading up. looks like it's going to be wet for a few.
Bill, Ive placed hundreds of cs bolts with ss hangers bitd and the only thing I've noticed is the washers rust a little paint the hangers if your worried about it if the two metals aren't in contact galvanic corrosionc shouldn't occur. If your going to spend the $$$$ on ss bolts why not fork out the extra buck for a compatible hanger?
I'd think it would be better, make some of that sand stick together. I've done the approach in the rain, I don't remember it being terrible beyond the usual huff and puff. Give us a crack report if you go up, so we know which ones retain the moisture after a rain storm ;).
I bet shallow cracks and face climbs would be good to go with a little wind and sun, not sure about the deeper sort. To this day though, I've only climbed Quoia in the rain. It added something as the moss became slimy.
So where's the camping around there? The only reason I haven't made it up there more than once was because I couldn't figure out where any plush (free) camping was. Also, I could really use a tour guide.
On another note, you guys are crazy if you're using Metolius hangers. Those are so 90's and like getting Starbucks when 7-11 will do.
In good faith I'll let you all onto my secret. ClimbTech gear has stainless hangers for 2.45, but you can talk em down to 1.95 if you get 100 bucks or more. They also have plated steel hangers for 1.65ea and Powers stud bolts for 1.75ea which is a pretty good deal. There's a good sale going on for 5/16 quicklinks for .75 cents each too.
Good to hear you're eyeing Woodfords again. Unfor I can't do tomorrow (looks like only partly sunny anyways, via point forecast) but let's get on it !! next sunny weather break as I've been wanting to get together a long time now. Are high temps required? Hell no. Because winter side is all south facing and when hit by the sun in these alcoves she gets warm even at 45.
Now of course a tour is going to cost you later this spring though - I'm thinking a partner - adventurous, hard-driving - either at the Hulk, Keeler or at this Angel Wings spectacle.
Next sunny weather, I'll PM you.
Maybe you can get out weekdays also.
P.S. I discovered ClimbTech (thanks again BT), and ordered bolts, hangers and quick links from them just last week. It was a good deal.
So where's the camping around there? The only reason I haven't made it up there more than once was because I couldn't figure out where any plush (free) camping was. Also, I could really use a tour guide.
I would tour ya around, but they won't let me climb right now.
If you got there and couldn't find free camping, we'd need to revoke all that manly wandering in the woods stuff you carry on about ;). It's pretty easy, just go to one of the several pullouts that isn't a campground or a neighborhood and camp.
edit: Oh yeah, Footloose, if you can't find a partner, I'm doing Positive Vibes, hell or high water this next season. We'll see if I'm in "gunning" shape for that, I'm recovering from some broken sh#t right now, but I'll certainly swap leads.
Yeah, Ron, I knew posting that pic to the post might cause some confusion. I just wanted to stir the juices regarding bolting and what not. But the Jobs Peak expedition is still on, of course just have to wait out the season or the weather now. In the meantime, there is Woodfords and Carson Valley Sentinel to keep me fit.
You've been there, to CVS? How cool is that? Where haven't you been, ha! Never noticed any pins but I do have a pretty killer rope solo setup on Sunny Delight for sunny seasonal days like today. You're more than welcome to come by and have a go on it. Better than Dino Rock, yes. Better than that Prison Hill Crag, yes. Better than Washoe Boulders, yes. I do think you'd be impressed!
KWood was working on it's own definition of a $hit show this morning.
Not a single chair was loading until 10:15 and by then a rather large gathering had amassed at the base of chairs 5 and 6. % started running and the line grew as people bailed on 6 for 5. I think 6 started moving just as we decided to bail, probably around 11:30 or so.
The snow off trail wasn't that great, at least bottom of the mt. Skiable breakable (shudder) crust. I hate that word, but that's what it was. But not total tail grabbing, nearly impossible to ski breakable, you could turn on it, but it wasn't very good.
Did not hang out to find out if the high stuff ever got open. Congrats to those who stuck it out and maybe got some good skiing in.
It was kind of a disappointing day.
Kirkwood has an impressive amount of snow on the ground for early December however.
Here's the coordinates: 39.114912,-119.800251
There is a 30 minute approach to the CV Sentinel.
It works for me (1) because I'm local, (2) because it's right next to my running circuit. (I run to it, hop on Sunny Delight or Winters Haven, climb, descend, run some more. Some days, this is heaven on earth.)
Hope this helped. Maybe come spring, we'll get a chance to meet at Wordfords or something. I hear you like the high sierra endeavors as well. Any friend of the hs is a friend of mine. Happy climbing!
EDIT No, not true!
Those must be the coordinates to the brothel next to Ron's workplace, ha!!
Hang on, testing...
Sunny Delight is 5.9+ or 5.10, depending on variation.
Winter's Haven, a short crack climb to climber's left, is 5.10.
Both likely to give a good pump to the 5.9 climber new to the site.
Drop on in next sunny weather you have Dinosaur Rock on your mind and I'll show.
Recall The Left Seam at Dinosaur Rock. 10a (according to Carville), I don't know? But Sunny Delight is MORE than comparable in length and difficulty. Plus, it's in the sun in the winter noon on.
P.S. I'll have to revisit DR with the Carville Guide in hand to make sense of the route names. Now I'm confused. But SD is more than comparable to the two most popular routes on the main face facing the road, best way to say it.
Jebus, get strong, next spring we'll swing, woohoo!
Spring would be too soon for my fling, I was thinking August/September. Plus, I'm a total snow/ice retard. Like, completely inept, so I need those flight paths cleared up there. I'll keep you on the roster though, I know you've been wanting to get up there and I will not be deterred from getting up Posi Vibes. I saw it from Red Dihedral this August and knew it would be mine, all mine next year.
A #6 on Walking Jack? I think I led it safely with a 3.5" friend as the big piece? I love that crack, it's some good trad bouldering. I'm pretty sure it's not 5.10a though, Weston, you have a fascinating grade-o-meter ;).
On the Perfect Lieback, it's always an issue for me: Where to put that first piece! Among other things, running it out can mean you REALLY REALLY trust your belayer. :)
That five foot section on Walking Jack has always humbled me. Maybe this season will be different, haha.
(If any of you guys rolling through the Carson Valley try out Sunny Delight at CV Sentinel, please let me know on the grade and rating, I'm looking for a consensus. So far it's 5.10 (not 5.9 afterall) and more than comparable in star quality to Dinosaur Rock's Color Me Gone. Sorry, Ron, lol. )
In no way do I think Walking Jack is actually 10a, fair 10c/+ish. I'm just saying that Sun Wall Left, comparatively, is extremely stiff for the grade.
I'd agree on SWL. I consider it 5.11a, although it's been more than a year since I got on it.
Woodfords is a Tahoe crag that doesn't seem to have the consensus other Tahoe crags do. Maybe that reflects true old school Tahoe area grades, not the creeping influence of road trippers and day trippers from the near west. To continue the dull rubric of comparison (at least on my ruler): If Cat Scratch Fever is 5.10a, I Be Jammin is easy 5.8+/9. If SWL is 5.10c, then Walking Jack is probably 5.10b, etc., etc....
For consistency, I mostly compare against the standard I see at other Tahoe crags to arrive at my personal grade, not using some sand bagged things at Woodfords to serve as my ruler against the climbs there. I mean, hell, you can go to Snowshed and rate everything by Karl's Gym if you want, but then Peter Principle is going to be 5.10c ;).
For true sand bagging at the Fords, go do a 5.9/10a called the Utah/NV border that is by the Hillside Strangler. It's the sneaky man's way of saying 5.9+! A Danno route I doubt many 5.10+ trad leaders will onsight. I wouldn't call it a great route, but it will certainly bitch slap the f*#k out of your ego if you hold to the grade.
mr. burnrockburn, that april fools wall route you be doing looks an awful lot like a route Greg Dexter and i did 2 years ago. Wasn't no bolt, except near the top if i remember correctly, after we were done-just sayin....
You mean Karl's gym and Nova aren't the golden standard for grading at Snowshed???! :-)
I got cleanly up Nova as a gym gumby crack n00b. 8+, tops ;).
Karl's Gym may just be a stylistic thing for me, some people find it easier than I do, but it sure seems harder than the 11- cracks I've done in the Donner area. Lead, TR, whatever, that crack dislikes me.
I guess it comes down to crag versus area ratings. In fact, I find grades remarkably consistent at most all the CA trad crags. From Joshua Tree to Tahquitz, Needles to Tuolumne, High Sierra to the Tahoe area, I'm never really thinking the grades are systematically off kilter (maybe Open Book was 5.10b though, hahaha).
There is a standard at Woodfords established by Smith and crew on certain routes, however, so it's a choice of honoring it or whitewashing it. I have my opinion of what the routes should be rated, of course, but if you honor the original while knowing it's going to be a testpiece there is really no harm except, perhaps, to the ego. I just don't think that standard necessarily applies to grading other routes, it's more of an asterisk deal.
Just like BITD! no need to chop just mash the hangers flat with a hammer to really get your point across;)
I've always liked the sight of mangled bolts and hammered down hangers! While you're at it you should take a loose crap and wipe your ass while slowly rapping down the rock. That'll show 'em! When the brown dookie smear transitions to the blood of your raw ass on the rock, they'll know you are seriously butt hurt!
If you had to place a bolt on a route that already had anchors on it WTF. It's fairly obvious the route has been done before. We did it on gear only. Thus no bolt. I'm not going to waste my time pulling it cause I would rather climb.
Just saying again
Instead of complaining about this sh#t how about some ex. route maint. like that first crux route is cool but the walk off with a foot of snow is lame. seems like these forty foot routes without bolted anchors might actually get done with fixed anchors. most of those routes are sportcracks.
More like it's 30' and they're never goin back so why waste the time and money.
Were not talking about classics here. I pulled the conveniance slings from the tree on nev/utah and replaced them with painted two bolt anchor is that bad? I'm 99% sure if Dan were around and I asked him he would not have an issue with it.
always loved the way twenty multi colored slings looked wrapped around some tree. O.k. I put the anchors near nev/utah for a new ten foot arete route. anyone doesn't like them they can rap of the hammered slings that were up there.
EDIT: what about the bolted anchors on hillside strangler and stranglehold? did you use those? you can easilly walk off led zepparete and you don't even need the belay bolt at yer waist
Heh. I do believe somebody took my nice bd double length and replaced it with thier hammered out sling on NV/UT! Or else it got hammered out, lol. I was with the wife and she didn't want to futz around with walk offs when I climbed that rig. Probably that's how convenience anchors started. Yes, honey, I'm coming down now!
Those anchors on Hillside are nice for convenience.
Ah, man, keep it Kenny. As long as you strangle some other hapless tree with it, I am cool with that. I have some tied webbing I used to get off Jammin' for Jehovah across the canyon too. I went too high and missed the anchors on Smearing for Jesus people apparently used. Another strangled tree :(.
Hehehehe... I love ethics. And convenience anchors!
Is there anywhere decent to bivy if one wanted to spend a week around the area this time of year?? Camp ground open? Mega cold at nights?
Also, how steep/long is the approach more or less? I've gotta a leg that requires some delicacy at the moment.
The boyfriend is coming in from England in two weeks and we've got about a week to kill in between my work stints in the Bay Area. Thought this place might be just the ticket if the weather is nice. Thoughts??
I don't like that bolted crack but its already there. I've used it to teach people to lead trad on. If they get freaked about trad placement they can clip up. It's shitty that it was bolted but I'm just gonna get the best out bad situation. Routes fun either way.
Ran into the guy who bolted it and he said he wanted a crag in woodfords that you could "leave your gear and bring more beer".
Again don't agree but........beer is good
Didn't mean to start any controversey over April Fools Wall. Haven't checked this thread in quite awhile. I wasn't claiming any first ascent since there was already a bolt anchor on top when we did it. I just thought the picture and caption about pulling up the bolt kit was of a later ascent. Anyway i'm not claiming any first ascents down there except for Suicide Falls center 5.10x in 1978 with Steve Miller and possibly Sole fusion with Billy Price in 1980.Did other highly visible and desirable features there in the early to mid 1970's but i knew there had already been quite a bit of activity and such obvious features surely would have already been climbed.
Thanks Ron. I never want to F up a route but I also want them safe. As you know woodfords rock can be quite loose and difficult to protect in some places. Hope to try those routes this summer so I don't want change your routes
Ron and Burnrock and others: The route at Suicide Falls Miller and i did was up the center of the face to the right of the falls and we called it Senior Center Slab since there was a small senior center at Woodfords in those days that we began our approach from. We simply walked up there and picked what we thought of as the most direct and aesthetic route on the formation. What i remember is a moderate first pitch. An increasingly difficult and steeper 2nd pitch which was in discontinuos seems with very little protection and 5.10 mantle a long ways out from anything reliable.There was a final short and steep pitch to the top of the formation.Unfortunately i lost all of my climbing pictures, notes, etc. to high ground water in the crawlspace of my first home in Alaska in 1986 otherwise i would be posting pics from the past of the greater Tahoe area on this forum. P.S. The rock was pretty chossy in comparison to the Leap or the Loaf being granular if not downright crumbly
Great comments. I love the old photos. They retain some amount of mystery that hi-res pics can take away from a route.
While the knowledge is being spread, anyone know anything about this bohemeth? It's located in the canyon west of Bandit Crag (northside of the hwy). There was a bolt spotted on the lowest part of the wall as of Jan 2012 (bottom left side of the pic right of the pine tree). The wall is not as consistently steep as it appears, with several blocky, loose bands, but there are a few descent possibilities. Anyone know of any routes on this guy?
This obvious formation sits on the left side of the canyon west of Bandit Crag.
Colin Hupp and Mike Stroschien did a route somewhere near called "over booked" (5.9) that had 1 bolt below a small roof traverse and corners below- crack finish-- back in 89
Well the bolt is at the end of a shallow little crack and I remember speculating if the party continued up into runout slab terrority (no other bolts) or if they traversed right into a good looking, right-facing book 1 pitch up (see the shaded corner in the second picture). That book is the most obvious line on the wall but you can't take a direct approach to it. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the route you described, Ron.
Ron you have to refresh my memory-it was only 34.5 years ago. So soon i forget things. Anyway ,is what you call Suicide Falls in the Flying Block area the biggest formation in the lower part of the canyon and right of the creek?If so, and Flying Block takes a direct line up the best looking part of the tallest section then i believe it is very similar to Senior Center Slab.We climbed it hammerless and found protection to be very sparse sept. 1978.Could have used some pins or bolts and probably still does.
Ron i only remember the route because we got a downright thrill (read scared us silly) out of the business pitch. Your description and picture dont do much to jar the memory loose other than to mention hard mantles which we encountered.I remember dead seems, that didn't take protection worth a shat, more than grooves. Of course it was 34.5 years ago and we never went back to that formation.Somewhere up canyon is a 4-6 pitch arete with cracks from finger to chimney but mainly offwidth to chimney in the 5.9 range that my younger brother Pat and i did in the early 70's.I'll be damned if i can even sight what formation it was on these days.
My friend Jaimie found a wall a few years ago, and kept it in the "vault" until about a week ago when we snowshoed our way up to the best new find in the Woodfords area in quite a while. !00 feet or so to the top, and the right side overhangs nine feet in ninety.
Scouted that area with the one bolt back in 08-9 and I Havnt found any info on it either. There is I direct line through the roof as you probably saw that would be hard as sh#t
Been trying to get chim chim up there to scope it with me for a few years. Hint hint chim!!!!
There are several possible routes up there but would more that likely need to be sport. Not a lot of crack there
Ron and all...... Great history
Chim let's get out.....things are starting to settle in on the home front now.
Shawn - I would have to agree. There are a few nice single pitchers we saw. Here are my notes from when we went up there.
Route potential exists, but given a bolt was found on an obscure line, the likelihood of prior ascents of the prominent cracks is high.
That trip we TR'd a steep sport climb at the top of that gulley, once it's cleaned up, prolly goes at a hard 11. A crimp chimp would love it. But with all the cracks around I don't see a pressing need to bolt it (doubt it would see many ascents). That might change if the wall gets more routes on it.
A stiff TR climb at the top of the gulley. Needs some TLC
A few of my friends said they went back there a week later and climbed the wall to the top thru a scary roof section, though I don't know exactly where. (Gil if you are out there, feel free to chime in)
I'd like to head back up there this Saturday but I really wanna tick off Jamin for Jehovah and Up the Nuthin.
That circled area is it. Crack right through the middle that looked great, but hard. Glad to see you guys are up there getting on those routes. I didnt quit understand the bolt there as I thought there was a crack that could have been used. Maybe flared out? Each one of those "gulleys" up there have a lot of potential for new routes. Im hoping to start getting back up there with everyone soon. Have bolts and anchors and will travel......
Ron, First crux is immed. around the corner from sunwall, right? I thought left of red pillar. I'm headin up today. Weston, if you haven't done whisker biscuit you should. and the easy routes in the cat scratch area are a lot of fun as well.
The rope drag sucked under the arch. Rope Caught under a cam there and was stuck, had to downclimb to unstick it.
OULD is classic. Top out and there are several more climbs on the next tier that are spectacular. Cant remember the names but there is a 10a corner crack that chim lead barefoot with me several years ago.
Its all good up there.
Heard about some stuff going on up there but have no details. Dan and I put up a Trad route there in 2008 with walk off then went and put up April Fools wall in the next gully. I remember there was a lot of potential for some sport routes up from Bandit. Ill have to check it out and take some pics
That would be a hell of a lot of wandering to get seven pitches. You guys had brass ones
Adventure climbing at its finest.....
If I would have started climbing in my Early 20's I probably would be dead by now. Luckily I started at 30 and understood consequences of injury. ie mortgage not getting paid. Damn I miss my 20's......
Kenny - yea that's what we call Tumbledown House (2p 11a-ish). Named for the amount of death blocks we had to trundle in order to make the route climbable as well as an AZ band (friends of one of the FAists). The route follows that dike all the way to the top and is very uncharacteristic of the fords (smooth, in-cut crimps).
To the left of that route is Roof Bravado and 2 others cracks that all converge at an exciting roof. Yard over the roof to a 2 bolt anchor (hand drilled to keep it oldskool), run some laps or continue up and right on the 2nd pitch (5.8) to the vertical dike of Tumblehouse and follow it to the top. Give em a go and gimme some feedback, I'd love to hear what you think - unless you hate them ;)
We've been calling this place Crystal Wall because there is a bunch a quartz laying around (moreso than in other gullies nearby); however if an name has already been chosen I will be happy to edit the info I've posted. If you continue east past that gully, the next wall you'll find is Deadwood Wall. This is a single-pitch wall with several 5.8's and 5.9's that are a classic and any I've done in the fords. Chimneys, corners, hand cracks, and OWs all within feet of each other.
Kenny, yea you can place thin pro between bolts. There is one more bolt higher up (3 total). Clip it and make a friction move to the prominent jug that sticks out in the skyline of your last pic. Yard the jug, wipe your brow, and climb to the anchors.
Dan - sure I'd be happy to provide the info in whatever format you want, I just need to know how you'd like it presented. I've not done hand drawn stuff, but I understand from a printing cost perspective if you'd prefer black and white over color. Conversely, if you want photo topos, I can provide raw files so you and your designer can decide how best to display them. We should chat about it in person sometime soon. Maybe I can take a day off before this weather moves in and meet you guys up at the fords.
Chim-Chim, what would really be cool if you could incorporate first-hand stories from the early explorers of the region. I mean, not only the history of first ascends, but also some "just stories" that would make make the reader emotionally engaged. Add some color to it. All the guides I read are pretty dry. There is some background history included, for sure, but they often lack the fire. But maybe I am a sucker for a good story ;)
Dan, we did Whisker biscuit,couple tr laps on walking jack an easier route to the right up the corner and I be jammin. we were gonna come over and check guy's out but deceided to head out early, seems like you were right behind us.
There's several ways to get to "Serenity Now" (.10d), but I'll give you the directions I'm most familiar with.
First, you have to make your way to the "Way the Hell Up There" (.11c) area. The climb starts to the right, and slightly lower down from the base of that route.
To get there traverse right from the bottom of High Caliber Corridor to a short 3rd/ easy 4th class section. This scramble is marked by a singular pine tree. After the initial scramble keep traversing east and slightly up, angling towards "Way the Hell Up There". The first pitch (of two) climbs on the right side of that formation.
Pitch one is characterized by broken and discontinuous climbing; kinda alpine-like. The end of the pitch goes up a couple short corners and deposits you on a ledge on the climber's left. It's only an access pitch leading you to the goods, which are on the second pitch.
Pitch two leaves the ledge on it's right side and climbs a finger crack to a crack switch about 20' up. Follow the crack as it arcs leftwards to a two bolt anchor. Awesome.
To descend rap Serenity Now's anchor to the ledge. Scramble 40' south to the top of "Way the Hell Up There" which is behind you when you're at the base of Serenity Now's second pitch. Rap off two bolts to the ground.
Two of us got out to woodfords yesterday. Slightly over cast, cold and windy as hell on the wall. We tried a line I’d scoped earlier, but since neither of us could feel our fingers, committing to a akward layback in a steep corner on tiny gear as the wind chilled us to the bone wasn’t in the cards. Maybe next time.
moving into the corner
THIN gear in an akward corner.
As soon as we bailed the wind died down. Feeling a new sense of inspiration (and warmth) we decided to give a nearby oldskool crack a go. But as luck would have it as soon as Jason racked up, the wind kicked up and the light began to fall behind the wall. Regardless of this piercing wind and fading light he got after it.
Joe Herbst would love this route! Wide hands to offwidth to chimney, gardening as you go. A slick, slabby corner with a few finger jams (once excavated) guards a nice ledge just below broken slabs at exactly 30m. Full value the whole way (though it doesn't seem it from the ground). I followed and literally cleaning as I climb. We setup an anchor and got outta Dodge. I kid you not, as soon as I touched back down to terra firma, the wind stopped yet again. Just another day a fords!
starting on the slab
the crux of the matter
chimney section (quite slick), pro in the back
Jason stopping to do a bit of gardening to unlock the finish
The Toprope Wall isn't really in the Main Alcove. It's quite a ways east and uphill. In terms of a climbing day it would make sense to combine this area with say the Red Pillar or, better, Serenity Now and it's neighboring climbs.
As far as the climb you highlighted, Footloose, it's not really an OW. It climbs more as a hand/fist crack and has some nice knobs for feet so it never gets terribly desperate or hard. A solid 5.9 seems appropriate. I usually bring two #3 camalots, one #3.5 and one #4 as my biggest piece. Also, hand size gear (and maybe slightly smaller?) is useful.
If you're up there and want to bump it up a letter or two you should climb Mission to Mars (.10-). It's located to the climber's left when starting up the first pitch of Serenity Now. It climbs on the same formation as Way the Hell Up There, about 200' to the climber's right of that line.
For Mission to Mars you'll want a #5 (new style) along with the gear I listed above. Look for a large right leaning ramp in a void (it makes sense when you see it) with a steep wall behind it. There's a large orange roof above the start. Stem up between the ramp and the steep wall (5.7 or 5.8,R) until you reach a horizontal 2" crack. Then turn the roof to the left and charge up the obvious corner to a 2-bolt anchor.
I had a feeling that was you but didn't want to say it in case yer hiding from a female stalker haha. It's fun stuff up there, are you heading out any time soon? Oh the Totems seem really cool You can try mine one day.
Coston & I climbed the crack that starts in the middle of the cliff, the Word BOLT intersects it in your pic. The crack is strait up to a roof. We traversed under the roof and followed the crack to the right. The crack tops out where you drew
We climbed the diagonal crack to the ledge, where you drew in the two routes on the far right of your pic. The ledge spans the cliff. You could pitch a tent in the sand on it it's so big. You can walk right to a 10' pine and rap back to the ground. The rock on the first pitch was good. A little kitty littler to clean. The big obstacle was the bushes. They need some heavy gardening. We stretched a 70m rope out doing that pitch. I had to climb up a bit while belaying to get Coston to the ledge. The second pitch is a scramble to the summit. Cool views. The rock is rotten above the ledge. We didn't even bring any gear to the top. Can't remember what we called it. That of course that is presuming someone didn't climb it before us. I'm sure some one has. It seemed like the easiest line on the cliff. Glad people are talking about it and sharing info.
I talked to Coston. We climber that route last year in January. We called it Low Hanging Fruit. 5.9. Crux was coming out of the roof following the diagonal crack. We where calling the area Wild West Wall. I'm just healing after a shoulder injury and Coston has a new born but we are thinking about getting up there and cleaning the thing up. But like I said before if someone climbed it before us disregard the names. We'll still clean it.
Thanks for sharing, Gill. I was up at that wall not long ago and know exactly the crack you are talk about. I had a feeling that was the line you guys did. I would love to repeat it if just to get over to that great-looking right-facing corner that I circled in the photo. That thing looks real nice.
I'd like to get up to the fords this Saturday and/or Monday but am in need of a partner. If you guys (or anyone else lurking this thread) wants to meet up this weekend we could do some "adventure" climbing up there. Let me know!
There's only a dusting in the valley this morning, not even a quarter inch. It's curious as presently there are only blue skies everywhere! Dusting of snow will be gone within the hour. I'll be climbing this afternoon, woohoo! :)
a buddy and myself would go to the west wall route and do laps cuz it is such a fun route, we did however dub it "focus fest" bcuz of the friction friction friction! mostly because we didnt know any name for it. still a fun climb, we've been goin a bit over the roofy part at the tree(bush) for a directish finish to the anchor, that part is still cleaning up and a bit harder than the bottom. have fun! p.s. would love to rip them bolts out and put new guys in, i aint falling on those things! i see its an unknown f a, mostly to try n lead it and asking outta respect. dave.
Hey Dan, I've heard from 5.10a to 5.10d on OULD, so the opinions flow fast and free at the Fords! Half the fun of climbing there is comparing how hard people think the routes are. There's many a climb there I hear about up to 3 letter grades of discrepancy between different climbers. I wonder if your guide will firm up some of the consensus.
I think 5.10c is fair for OULD, that's around my usual onsight level and it felt right about there when I did so. If you're dialed for techie granite stuff it will feel easier, I think that's why I've heard down to 5.10a on it.
Maybe there should be the three grade system at Woodfords: 1. Can get it clean, 2. Can get up it somehow, 3. Can't get up it at all. It would simplify my conversations with friends about the Fords!
Well, "usual" when I'm not recovering from an injury, Footloose. I'm afraid my dance card is filled on that particular climb so far though. If I do it twice in one season though or my partner bails, I will let you know!
I think I need to recover to leading first though, or I won't be rope gunning anything soon.
edit: Oh yeah, I'm digging the trail running thing, I know that is your gig too. I'm finally finding the "gears" when I run so that I can keep the legs going on the uphills. It's a blast! I don't know why people pound the cement when you have beautiful trails out there. I just got back from one this morning ;).