Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 69 of total 69 in this topic |
Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 17, 2005 - 12:36am PT
|
I just got this note from Hans Florine:
Hi all,
I don't know any details, but I'm sure they will be coming forth with-
Beth Rodden and Tommy Caldwell Free Climbed The Nose route recently.
I took some pictures of them while they were working on it last month: http://speedclimb.com/yosemite/BnTNose.html
It's the FASTEST Free ascent by a couple.
Hans
This would be the second and third free ascent of the route. and, also the first male ascent of the climb. (kinda a cool that the route still has more female than male ascents)
|
|
Darnell
Big Wall climber
Chicago
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 12:40am PT
|
WOW!!!!!!
|
|
Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 12:59am PT
|
preplaced gear?
|
|
Terry
climber
Spokane
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 01:24am PT
|
I find it discouraging that the second post in response to this amazing feat is a cynical stab. ["Preplaced Gear?"] Geez. What is most bothersome is that it was completely predictable. It is sad that this blemish stains an otherwise incredible community. All the details will come out in time I'm sure. Until then (and from now on I naively hope) lets enjoy peoples success and at least wait until the chalk dries before we worry about the politics.
Way to go Beth and Tommy. Here's to many more.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 01:28am PT
|
Yes
They came up over the top while we were over by the top of the New Dawn dealing with those fellas from Sweden.
Such fine spirited people Tommy and Beth are.
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 03:40am PT
|
I find it extremely troubling that Chris posts Hans' note as if this is THE word on their ascent. First of all: this isn't the fastest free ascent of the nose by a couple. It's the ONLY free ascent of the nose by a couple. Hans' stab at competition is like saying Waren Harding was going for a speed ascent when he did the FA. It's called B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T. Secondly, Tommy is not the first male to free the nose. Scott Burke was the first male to free the nose. Yes, he did the Great Roof on toprope on his final ground up ascent, but how much should this really matter? He had previously led the pitch (no falls). Durring his ascent the pitch was wet and crowded, so to speed things up he TRed the pitch.
Questions that remain unaswered: did Tommy and Beth each lead every pitch??? Or did they do a Skinner style ascent??? Or did they swing leads??? Who the f*#k cares? All I'm saying is I think we need some more accurate posts here. And Chris...come on! As the creator of this site, you should try to be more accurate in what you post--your guidebooks have enough mistakes as it is.
|
|
marky
climber
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 05:02am PT
|
it is, paradoxically, both impressive and unimpressive. more unimpressive, I think.
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 06:22am PT
|
I think that's awesome. But we all knew it was coming right!?
I also don't think it is wrong to ask if there was pre-placed gear or not. Style is important and worth asking about. Based on their other free climbs, I doubt they'd do that though...
|
|
kimgraves
Trad climber
Brooklyn, NY
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 08:53am PT
|
I'm confused about something. If this is the second and third free ascent, who gets second and who gets third? Is Tommy second or third or is Beth? I thought ascents went by party; I.E., Tommy and Beth did the second ascent(acutally the third: Hill did both the 1st and 2nd). Enlighten me.
Thanks, Kim
|
|
nate
Trad climber
virginia
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 09:05am PT
|
you people suck. To free the nose in good syle is a really proud thing. To do it before the euros -- even better.
|
|
TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 09:30am PT
|
Didn't Lynn Hill do the second free ascent in 1994?
|
|
SteveM
Trad climber
UK
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 10:34am PT
|
They were climbing just below us on Tuesday as we headed upto the Great Roof. Glad to hear that they topped out too :-)
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 10:54am PT
|
They are wonderful people. I congratulate them!
and it's a big deal too. The first free ascent was a long time ago and it's not for lack of trying that it's hasn't gone in this kind of style since.
Scotty's ascent was in great style too. Just another kind of great style. He wasn't a very talented or strong climber (in the scheme of things) when he started, and pure hard work and dogged persistence got him 95% of the way there.
Some say that's as far as he got, but that's for the scorekeepers to argue about. As far as following their dreams into action go, all these free Nose folks from Lynn forward are inspirations.
Peace
karl
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 11:11am PT
|
I agree with Karl and would even extend his idea, The Nose has inspired many climbers in the past, Harding actually figured out how to get up it, others were also eyeing it. Sacherer is credited by Bridwell for inspiring the Nose-In-A-Day, and went up many (?) times trying to free various sections, probably an idea before its time. Others had been inspired too. Hill pushed it to a totally new level, that send still amazes me.
I would say that it is significant that The Nose has been climbed in a day by a team, free. This brings the route into the domain of cragging, an awesome thought; the level of climbing has increased to that point.
Congratulations to Rodden and Caldwell on the send. I am looking forward to their account of the climb and not to the uninformed wrangling over the minutae...
What is next? the first NIADF ascent by a free soloer?, onsight? I don't care that much, whatever it is I'm sure I'll be impressed if I am still alive... but I have my own interests..
|
|
landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 11:37am PT
|
I guess the fingers weren't to thin for Beth & Tommy.Great Job/rg
|
|
Burns
Trad climber
Arlington, VA
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 11:53am PT
|
Way cool, I'm looking forward to the full story.
I think Scott Burke should get a little bit more respect than he seems to, the dude worked his tail off to come so close to acheiving one of the greatest sends in free climbing that the argument about it revolves solely around a (not insignificant) point of style. We Americans usually love underdogs so much, but somehow SB has slipped through the cracks. It is extremely impressive either way.
I love that this route has remained a testpiece for over a decade, and I hope that it will remain so for far longer.
|
|
jiff
Mountain climber
philadelphia
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 01:47pm PT
|
I thought if you didn't weight the rope it was free, albeit not on lead...
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Straight Outta Squamton
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 01:53pm PT
|
If that's the case, let's just TR everything from now on and call it a day...
|
|
G_Gnome
Trad climber
Ca
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 01:56pm PT
|
AKutzer, you have never followed a route and considered that you had climbed it? What a load of crap! If you swung leads up The Nose you wouldn't consider that you had climbed it? If this is the way things are truely considered now I don't think I want to be involved with that part of the climbing community that thinks this way. Total Bu11sh1t!
|
|
10b4me
Trad climber
On that V2 problem at the Happies
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 02:05pm PT
|
kudos to Tommy and Beth. I don't them, but have met them, and they are very nice. I agree with Karl, and Ed this is a super achievement. Don't know the details, but I would be willing to guess they climbed this in an ethical manner; and to the naysayers, are you jealous?
|
|
James
Social climber
My Subconcious
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 02:07pm PT
|
Two dedicated rock climbers doing burly routes. They have an excellent partnership.
Three cheers to a successfully tied knot. May their abilities continue.
|
|
Gnat
climber
Smell A
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 02:12pm PT
|
Like I said, let's just TR everything from now on and call it a day...
Like I said, let's just TR everything from now on and call it a day...
Like I said, let's just TR everything from now on and call it a day...
Like I said, let's just TR everything from now on and call it a day...
Like I said, let's just TR everything from now on and call it a day...
Like I said, let's just TR everything from now on and call it a day...
Like I said, let's just TR everything from now on and call it a day...
Just an experiment... to see if repeating this inane comment makes it sound any more intellegent...Nope.
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Straight Outta Squamton
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 02:14pm PT
|
Hey, just having a bit of fun. I actually deleted the second post.
It's all good!
(as long as claimed ascents are done on lead)
|
|
dmitry
Trad climber
Chita, Russia
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 02:18pm PT
|
Phenomenal accomplishment!
Very happy for them.
A side note: of course following a pitch free IS free climbing it.
Cheers,
d
|
|
Peter
climber
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 03:08pm PT
|
Great accomplishment for sure.
Did Hill climb all the pitches with no falls (ie; first try) on her free ascent in a day?
According to the press release:
Caldwell and Rodden led all the pitches free in four days, but Rodden "led the Great Roof successfully on her second try during the free push".
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 03:17pm PT
|
I think there's a difference between following and TR'ing a pitch. Although I'd bet that Scotty had some gear in when he TR'ed the GR. What matters most is what Scott himself feels about his own accomplishments--we can argue til the cows come home about his freeing the route. For me, I don't consider that I've fully climbed a single pitch unless I've led it. Multi-pitch climbs, I'm fine with swinging. But a straight TR, heck that's just practice to me.
[Now if I TR'ed Love Supreme, I think I'd say I did it!]
:- k
|
|
caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 03:27pm PT
|
Top roping and leading are both free climbing if you don't weight the rope or gear. Sheesh.
But there is a style difference between tr and lead.
A rad accomplishment by Beth and Tommy, but I don't know if it's stylistically superior to Burke's, as none of the 3 led every pitch on the climb.
Inspiring!
|
|
jiff
Mountain climber
philadelphia
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 03:39pm PT
|
"A rad accomplishment by Beth and Tommy, but I don't know if it's stylistically superior to Burke's, as none of the 3 led every pitch on the climb."
It will be interesting to see when Tommy or Beth or anyone else goes back and leads all the pitches.
Why didn't Scotty go back and clean up unfinished business?
|
|
Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Straight Outta Squamton
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 03:55pm PT
|
Why would it be unfinished business––if indeed the style doesn't matter?
|
|
jiff
Mountain climber
philadelphia
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 04:10pm PT
|
I didn't say the style didn't matter, I just said its still free even if done on toprope. As long as the ascent is reported as TR thats the main thing.
|
|
Burns
Trad climber
Arlington, VA
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 04:33pm PT
|
jiff- good point, as long as its reported as a TR, thats what matters from an ethics standpoint. Be honest about your ascents.
Apparently Scott led the great roof free in earlier attempts, but during his final ground up send he TR'd because, well, because he chose to. Anyway, I suppose this need not get hashed out anymore. By all accounts, Tommy and Beth are great folks, and sick climbers, and I'm quite happy for them.
Tommy and Beth are superstars and have accomplished an amazing thing, The Proudest Send of 'Em All(how do I get the little TM to appear?). Although Scott Burke is a far more talented climber than me, he's a lot closer to an average Joe than Tommy and Beth, so its inspiring to see that dedication and hard work can allow you to accomplish something so impressive.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 05:11pm PT
|
Man this is crazy, if not every pitch was led and cleaned, its not a free ascent!
Juanito
|
|
jiff
Mountain climber
philadelphia
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 05:16pm PT
|
Yeah I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, nevermind.
|
|
Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 05:31pm PT
|
Terry, it was simply a curiousity question. Damn...it is a great accomplishment, even with preplaced gear, however I do feel it makes a difference.
|
|
akclimber
Trad climber
Eagle River, AK
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 06:19pm PT
|
billygoat wrote:" First of all: this isn't the fastest free ascent of the nose by a couple. It's the ONLY free ascent of the nose by a couple. Hans' stab at competition is like saying Waren Harding was going for a speed ascent when he did the FA."
You idiot. Look at what Hans wrote. His site is SPEEDCLIMBING.COM. It was called HUMOR. He is all about speed climbing and I thought that little comment about it being the "fastest" was pretty funny.
And all you critics of Tommy and Beth should pull your head out of your ass and stop being so eager to sh#t on people when they accomplish something you can only dream about.
|
|
theishofoz
Trad climber
lafayette, CA
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 08:25pm PT
|
proud send
|
|
TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 08:48pm PT
|
A couple of years ago Hans Florine visited and talked about his speed climbing philosophy, ...
Asked when he thought a guy would free the Nose. He said he thought Lynn Hill might be the only climber good enough and with small enough hands to do it.
Looking at the "free" debate going on here reminds me of all the lawyer jokes I ever heard. And skating judges, and gymnastics judges, ...
Anyway, I am impressed. If they had fun, that's good enough for me.
Of course, if the style isn't good enough for you, raise. No bluffing in this game.
|
|
Mick Ryan
Trad climber
Saratoga Springs, NY
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 08:56pm PT
|
" am not judge of whether scott did the second free ascent or not."
You politician Chris McNamara. Come on what do you really think?
Apart from that, is there ever a consensus within the climbing community on matters ethical and stylistic such as this.
M
; 0 )
|
|
Burns
Trad climber
Arlington, VA
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 08:57pm PT
|
Tommy's going for the NFIAD, 3 days after doing it free in 4 days? Holy poo. Thats amazing. Go Tommy.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 08:58pm PT
|
Are they human? That's the real question!
I want a DNA test - how do we know we are competing with Homosapiens?
Juan
|
|
426
Sport climber
Wartburg, TN
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 10:21pm PT
|
There have to be monkeys somewhere in the "branch" species here.
|
|
up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 11:08pm PT
|
Congrats to them both! A very proud accomplishment.
Ed
|
|
Terry
climber
Spokane
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2005 - 11:18pm PT
|
Apocolypse, dind't mean to dis on you. Just frustrated it happened so quick. I agree style is important and has merit but as many the following 50 something posts show we love to argue about things that there will never be total consensus on.
Having climbed the Nose once I am in total awe of a team who has the audacity to think they could free that climb and then go out and do it.
|
|
crotch
climber
|
|
|
Oct 18, 2005 - 01:04pm PT
|
Awesome!
|
|
shitzy
Gym climber
La Playa
|
|
|
Oct 18, 2005 - 01:57pm PT
|
holy shitz
|
|
estwing
Trad climber
montreal
|
|
|
Oct 18, 2005 - 02:41pm PT
|
So when is Beth going for the send in a day?
|
|
stuey
climber
|
|
|
Oct 18, 2005 - 07:18pm PT
|
is toproping not the same as following- so sb's accomplishment is the same as what was originally reported as a free ascent by t and b. right?
|
|
G_Gnome
Trad climber
Ca
|
|
|
Oct 19, 2005 - 12:07pm PT
|
I think too many people never do multi pitch routes anymore or this would not be a discussion. If *sportclimbers* only want to consider a route climbed when led then fine, but us tradsters still consider that we climbed a route if we got up the thing without falling off, and if it was multi pitch then chances are leads were swung and it would be pretty absurd to say that nobody climbed anything that day.
|
|
shitzy
Gym climber
La Playa
|
|
|
Oct 19, 2005 - 12:23pm PT
|
Shitz, this is really a boring debate. You are talking about the difference between a partner ascent and individual ascent. It used to be the case that a team would complete a climb together (Skinner and Piana free the Salathe, etc.), but the best and proudest style for these long Yosemite climbs has become (because of individual sponsorships?) the individual ascent (Leo onsights HD, Lynn Hill frees the nose, Potter free climbs El Cap and HD IAD, Tommy Caldwell frees everything, etc.).
So yes, Scott Burke free climbed the Nose, but not in the same style that simply saying "Scott Burke free climbed the Nose" implies, he followed one of the route's crux pitches, and so his ascent is not the equal of others where all pitches were led, it's not legit as an individual ascent, but it's clearly at least as legit as a partner ascent.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Oct 19, 2005 - 12:44pm PT
|
Shitzy pens: "So yes, Scott Burke free climbed the Nose, but not in the same style that simply saying "Scott Burke free climbed the Nose" implies, he followed one of the route's crux pitches, and so his ascent is not the equal of others where all pitches were led, it's not legit as an individual ascent, but it's clearly at least as legit as a partner ascent."
I think this is spot on, except I think I'd use a different word than "legit." It is legitiment that Burke free'd the Nose. Maybe "Proud" would work:
"He followed one of the route's crux pitches, and so his ascent is not as proud as someone who leads all the pitches on an ascent."
It's too bad though, given all the time an effort Scotty put into the event.
** But Dang that TC!! Two days after the partner ascent, he comes returns for the 12-hour cruise ... That is nothing if it ain't PROUD.
:- k
|
|
the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
|
|
|
Oct 19, 2005 - 12:51pm PT
|
SB is almost always mentioned when someone writes/talks about who has free climbed the nose, so no big deal IMO. He's just got an asterik next to the free climbed every pitch.
One nice result of this (TC freeing all the pitches) is people will no longer be able to say, "Lynn was just able to do it because she has small fingers for the great roof." But maybe people will now just say "You need really small fingers or 9 & 1/2 fingers to free the great roof."
|
|
Sam Shannon
Social climber
the middle of nowhere
|
|
|
Oct 19, 2005 - 03:19pm PT
|
With regards to Scottie Burk and his efforts on the Nose. He is,IMO, the 2nd person to ever free the route. Yes, his style leaves a lot of room for improvement, but let's look at the four people on this earth who have freed the route. Lynn Hill, Beth Roddden, Tommy Caldwell and Scott Burk. They all are super-human but Scottie is definitely the least talented mutant in the group.
In 1998, after 3 years of work, Scottie started his ground-up push in mid-November. Over the next 12 days he had to contend with a ton of wet rock due to the onset of winter weather patterns in the Valley. On the Great Roof, Scottie admittedly TR'd the pitch but he also backclipped all his preplaced gear with a trail line to prevent a swinging whipper. End result; pshcologically easier to climb, but way harder physically than just sacking up and leading the thing. He also TR'd 2 pitches of 5.11 on the route. The Houdini Pitch was redpointed on pre-placed gear.
Saying that Mr. Burk didn't free the Nose is like saying that Skinner and Piana didn't make the FFA of the Salathe back in 1988. Yeah, their style could've been better but as long as people are honest about the facts of their ascents I don't see a problem with things and I would rather be inspired than talk sh#t from behind the security of an anonymous internet forum.
Besides, someday someone like Dean 'Sasquatch' Potter will impregnate a woman like Kim 'She-Man' Csismazia and their horribly mutant offspring will onsight solo the the Nose on a drunken dare at midnight thereby making all of us look like chumps.
Yeah, Baby.
|
|
jiff
Mountain climber
philadelphia
|
|
|
Oct 19, 2005 - 04:18pm PT
|
"Besides, someday someone like Dean 'Sasquatch' Potter will impregnate a woman like Kim 'She-Man' Csismazia and their horribly mutant offspring will onsight solo the the Nose on a drunken dare at midnight thereby making all of us look like chumps."
I think Steph Davis might have something to say about that..
|
|
Burns
Trad climber
Arlington, VA
|
|
|
Oct 19, 2005 - 07:04pm PT
|
yeah, I don't think she'd appreciate her husband being called a sasquatch.
|
|
jiff
Mountain climber
philadelphia
|
|
|
Oct 20, 2005 - 06:32am PT
|
Or her friend being called a she-man
|
|
elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
|
|
|
Oct 20, 2005 - 09:02am PT
|
I am sure their sponsors are so proud.
As for me, it's a big yawn.
You people and your hero worship are pathetic.
Go do something and be proud of yourself.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
|
|
|
Oct 21, 2005 - 10:16pm PT
|
I have to agree with ElCapFool!
|
|
elcap-pics
climber
Crestline CA
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2005 - 02:45pm PT
|
Yo.. I photographed both climbs and they were impressive. A fine, modest couple who climb for their own pleasure... a welcomed relief from all the sprayers on this site.
Tom Evans
|
|
Ditch Trad
Trad climber
CA
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2005 - 04:58pm PT
|
I photographed both climbs and they were impressive. A fine, modest couple who climb for their own pleasure... a welcomed relief from all the sprayers on this site.
Interesting comment coming from a "extreme sport" photographer...
I don't know, I'd say that sponsorship plays something here as well...I guess we'll see if we get a nice spread like the "Dihed Free" in the ubiquitous Mag.
Not to take away anything from either, they both climb light years harder that I ever have or will. Congrats to both, good to see a 2nd FIAD done since '92.
Not sayin---just "sayin"...
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 22, 2005 - 11:22pm PT
|
"Yo.. I photographed both climbs and they were impressive. A fine, modest couple who climb for their own pleasure... a welcomed relief from all the sprayers on this site.
Tom Evans"
Nonsense Tom. Any lack of humility on this site has nothing to do with climbing spray. Few of us are good enough (at least anymore) to spray very far.
But Beth and Tommy are cool folks
peace
karl
|
|
Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
|
|
|
Oct 23, 2005 - 08:24am PT
|
"Enough with this hiking! [free climbing] Let's get on with zee climbing [aid climbing]!" -- John Salathe'
|
|
Guillermo
climber
|
|
ALL OF YOUZ NEED TO GET A LIFE!!!
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
I've been thinking about this for a while and actually think the "cragging" ascent of the Nose, free, in a day, is an important achievement to the climbing community. Think about it, swapping leads all day on a 34 pitch route that goes at 14a.
While the individual achievement of doing both the Nose and Freerider in a day is spectacular, it is really something a single person did; a wonderful act.
But imagine the conversation racking up for a day's climbing in the meadows under the Capitan:
"Gee honey, want to climb the Nose?"
"Sure, what do you want to do this afternoon?"
The Nose as a crag route... that really blows my mind.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 69 of total 69 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!