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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 17, 2010 - 02:10am PT
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you know who you are.
you're fairly pathetic
you climbed there within the last couple days
fess up, and stop doing it, or brush it off when you are done.
when you tick mark, it says "I'm such a horrible climber I need a mark to tell me where the hold is, and oh btw, land managers, climbers are so stupid that they leave big marks on the boulders so that it is almost like graffitti! woot!"
yep, pretty much
anyone really disagree with the above?
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jan 17, 2010 - 02:56am PT
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Well, the rain must have washed those nasty tick marks off by now anyway.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Jan 17, 2010 - 03:04am PT
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Bruce... THAT is not the point!
Have we arrived at a point where each and every hold must be pre-marked so we do not need to think for ourselves? Perhaps the rain will be so pesky that the culprit will use something more permanent next time.
Come on Mr./Mrs. Culprit! If you don't have the sac to boulder with SOME sense of adventure then stay home!
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
climber
. . . not !
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Jan 17, 2010 - 03:05am PT
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I draw the line at drawing lines .
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2010 - 03:06am PT
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I draw the line at drawing lines .
funny, and well stated
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jan 17, 2010 - 03:07am PT
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Tick marks are generally weak, but leaving them when you go is very weak.
Say you tick a hold, if send next try, take the tick. If it takes more than one more try, then you know where the holds are.
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safl
Trad climber
Wahoo, NE
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Jan 17, 2010 - 10:47am PT
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lowest common denominator.
[sigh]
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skychild
Trad climber
Birmingham, Alabama
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Jan 17, 2010 - 11:56am PT
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Castle Rock is weak... just sayin' Don
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jan 17, 2010 - 12:18pm PT
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Skychild- maybe a dude from Alabama should not be calling a spot in California weak. I've had hundreds of really fun days up there. Sure it's no buttermilks, bit it is some of the best bouldering in the bay area. Oh, but I guess your just a dick. Just sayin.
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Srbphoto
Trad climber
Kennewick wa
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Jan 17, 2010 - 12:20pm PT
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Bluering has been mysteriously silent!
Maybe he's the culprit!
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jan 17, 2010 - 12:22pm PT
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urban bouldering.
these days, i'm just happy if it's a real tic mark under or below the target. half the time, they smear chalk all over the starting footholds.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 17, 2010 - 12:30pm PT
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Bluering has been mysteriously silent!
I just saw this. And it ain't me. It's prolly the pad people, lots of them out there nowadays. They're young-uns that don't know better. Sh#t I haven't been out in like 3 weeks. All my partners are posin'....
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Kevmn
Gym climber
Snob Franpsycho
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Jan 17, 2010 - 01:02pm PT
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Seems like just a decade or so ago the standard was to put a small dot tickmark next to the one or two holds that were hard to spot while climbing.---- if that----
Now you put a thick line next to every possible hold (useable or not) and make sure to smear chalk all over every potential foothold as well.
My how things degrade quickly in this sport.
Easier = Safer = Faster!
Whats next, bolting cracks so people don't need to learn how to place gear?
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Jan 17, 2010 - 01:14pm PT
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Castle Rock is weak... just sayin' Don
Yep, I am sure Kauk, Bachar, Cos, Yabo, Price, DD and quite a few others would "agree."
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safl
Trad climber
Wahoo, NE
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Jan 17, 2010 - 01:31pm PT
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Opinions!
No matter what, someone will disagree. Who cares?
If it bugs you, then DO SOMETHING!
Or just bitch on the internets.
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jan 17, 2010 - 01:33pm PT
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ive decided to go up with some paint and stencils. im going to paint circles around all the holds and number them so we all know how to climb each boulder problem the right way. I'm sick of not sending because I don't know the beta. Its not fair!
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
obsessively minitracking all winter at Knob Hill
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Jan 17, 2010 - 01:33pm PT
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Simmer down kids. no need to descend to the playground level.
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seth kovar
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jan 17, 2010 - 02:08pm PT
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During a similar epidemic in Little Cottonwood I made it a point to erase all tick marks and move them 6 inches to the left. -weschrist
that is awesome!
For real though, the rock out there (CRSP) is too great to have to look at that sh#t...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 17, 2010 - 02:13pm PT
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Tick marks ARE weak.
What's needed are strips of multi-colored tape to mark the holds. Tape won't wash off in the rain.
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billygoat
climber
cruzville
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Jan 17, 2010 - 02:25pm PT
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Take only pictures, leave only footprints. Just 'cause Castle has been trampled by partiers and pad people doesn't mean we should treat it any different than any other of our open spaces. That just brings us down to the level of the people who did the damage, and it elevates them to a level of power where they get to decide what remains pristine. Maybe, instead of relying on the rain, it's time to start thinking about organized clean-ups of the area.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 17, 2010 - 02:43pm PT
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Perhaps permanent tick marks should be chissled into popular routes to avoid the destruction to the rock caused by repeated application and removal of chalk tick marks.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Jan 17, 2010 - 02:45pm PT
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my aren't we all crabby this am.. too much Pineapple.. anyway totally agree , had some remark I was going to post about tape as well, can't see why some recreationists even leave the gym in the first place.. just wish they would leave the gym inside....
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 17, 2010 - 02:47pm PT
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And you can paint the chissled tick marks yellow, blue, or red to match the tape in the gym.
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okie
Trad climber
San Leandro, Ca
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Jan 17, 2010 - 02:58pm PT
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Tick marks are silly- especially next to cracks. If you are climbing something at a high standard you should have the vision to see these things without tick marks, or at least work on that ability. If you are ticking it that means you have already blown the onsight and why tick it anyway? You are just ruining the onsight for the next person.
IMHO
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jan 17, 2010 - 03:09pm PT
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Tick marks are aid.
"Pineapple?" Like in the for TV versions of Scarface?
Yeah chaz and as long as we're chissling we can make them better holds...
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Currently in San Diego
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Jan 17, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
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I took my sister in law out bouldering at Santee for her first time- she has MS and is very excited about learning what it is we do out there on the various stones...
We come upon a boulder near the terrible face with corpulent tick marks littering its easiest route. I begin to try to clean them off as best I can without a brush, aghast that someone would tick something that easy...and horrified that if I did not, someone might think that I put them there.
She asks me what those marks are for and I tell her they are for people to see where all the holds are.
She says, "Oh, you mean like in a GYM? Then why do they bother coming outside?"
I agree and we begin climbing. After we each take a lap, she shakes her head and says, " You know, those marks seem a lot like cheating. I mean, how do these people expect to learn how to read the rock if they do that?"
I thought it was funny how obvious it was to even a complete n00b. Next time, I'll have a brush.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Jan 17, 2010 - 03:46pm PT
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Porkchop...
PERFECT AND FANTASTIC STORY!!!!!
I LOVE EVERY WORD AND THOUGHT IN IT!
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Currently in San Diego
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Jan 17, 2010 - 04:35pm PT
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Thanks- She is a real champ. She says the climbing is a big help with her MS symptoms, so she "makes" me take her climbing a lot.
Tick marks always make me feel like Im doing the problem wrong because I tend to skip a lot of holds because I can reach far. Plus if you work the problem a little, you will get some residual chalk on the holds that you have been using without having to seem so incompetent.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2010 - 07:51pm PT
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the rain will mostly take it off, but that doesn't excuse the pad peoples.
just about every pad person I saw was young 'un, so most likely young and ignorant, hence partially my reason for posting in that hopefully the young will read and go 'wow, didn't think about that, yeah I better ease back on my chalk addiction'
meh
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jan 17, 2010 - 07:56pm PT
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Way Homo.
Urine takes care of those pesky tics, yet I only pee on the problems I can't do.
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Rob_James
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt. Cook Village, New Zealand
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Jan 17, 2010 - 08:33pm PT
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Mungeclimber: If you use white coloured chalk on anything other then white coloured rock, then you are little better than those you burn about.
I agree, rock should be left clean. And if you must use chalk and won't clean it off, use the light sandy/brown/whatever coloured stuff that blends-in with the wall.
Onwards.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2010 - 08:51pm PT
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yep, I am weak. I use chalk at Castle. I am little better and probably worse than those I post about. Please disregard any part of the above that isn't worth talking about or that doesn't apply to anyone you might know.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 17, 2010 - 09:08pm PT
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There's a difference between using chalk on your hands, and using it to paint rock so you know where to go.
I think that's what we're talking about here...
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Rob_James
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt. Cook Village, New Zealand
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Jan 17, 2010 - 09:13pm PT
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Mungeclimber: self-effacing doesn't cut it in a lilliputian world.
If you're a hypocrite then have the sack to defend yourself. Especially if you are to critique others so for(u)mally.
Holds marked with white chalk -on anything other than white rock- are as much a part of the same game as tick marks. Thereby, if you're going to cite a standard, than hold it high - use chalk that can't be seen 'as markers' from the ground. Be it for your hands, ease, or comfort.
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Blinky
Trad climber
North Carolina
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Jan 17, 2010 - 09:28pm PT
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I'm thinking little laminated placards with the route name and grade would add a nice touch... and maybe paint boundaries on all the lines so nobody gets off route.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Jan 17, 2010 - 09:33pm PT
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Either way.... leaving a trace... is the thing...
When one leaves behind a trace of their having been there.. that's when it becomes a problem for me....
But then again I haven't been to the park in a while.... but I definitely know what you mean....
tick marks....
I can see why one would need a tick mark.. when they suck so much that they cannot remember where a hold is, or where to step that right toe....
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 17, 2010 - 09:37pm PT
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Since I spend so much time there, maybe I'll start schooling the youngsters. I don't usually climb in the 'Sharma-approved' bouldering areas, but I see these f*#kers in the lot....I'll give 'em a heads up.
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drunkenmaster
Social climber
santa rosa
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Jan 17, 2010 - 09:47pm PT
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ticks dig me!?
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Jan 17, 2010 - 09:58pm PT
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Rob James-
That is a ridiculous statement saying using chalk is just as bad as making tick marks. Yes they both leave white marks on the rock, but the ticks which munge is talking about are huge, thick, bold white lines on all features of the rock. We are not talking about a small thumb print that marks out something useful and hard to see, this are huge, sometimes foot long bold lines. Its very, very different than a chalky slap print on a hold used.
they suck, I have never caught anyone making those, but I have seen them and they are lame.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jan 17, 2010 - 10:47pm PT
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i saw some tick marks on bluey's nut sack,
is that what were are nit pickin about?
we were doing the Tea Bag, know what i'm sayin?
where have i been?
looking for a OLEAUT32.dll file that crippled my online access, im jus sayin, computers suck. bill gates can lick my sack.
you apple guys, i don't want to hear it again. i know.
buy a frickin apple. buy a frickin apple.
0k, there, i said it again.
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Rob_James
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt. Cook Village, New Zealand
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Jan 17, 2010 - 10:56pm PT
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No hoipolli: 1 foot tick marks - big deal.
I see metres upon pitches of white-chalked hands smeared up and down cliffs.
Tick marks are no good at all. And overtly leaving chalked hand marks over the face is no better. Get the chalk that can't be seen from the base.
Walls are more enjoyable when kept clean - period.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Jan 17, 2010 - 11:26pm PT
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Ticks dig me!?
Yes they do Chris! They do indeed...
break a leg
T
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2010 - 11:27pm PT
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Mungeclimber: self-effacing doesn't cut it in a lilliputian world.
If you're a hypocrite then have the sack to defend yourself. Especially if you are to critique others so for(u)mally.
Holds marked with white chalk -on anything other than white rock- are as much a part of the same game as tick marks. Thereby, if you're going to cite a standard, than hold it high - use chalk that can't be seen 'as markers' from the ground. Be it for your hands, ease, or comfort.
Rob,
Self effacing? Meh, possibly. To what do I need to 'cut' to make 'it?'
Are you implying by your resistance to my post that you are young, or that you place tick marks? Sounds like the former. Nothing wrong with that.
Hypocritical? meh, possibly. But I have no intention of defending my actions. You know what the post is about. I suspect you're annoyed at the fact that you are indoors and or not climbing. Understandable as well. Sack to defend against what?
I cited my standard. I held it high. I often don't use chalk up there, but sometimes need it. Maybe if they made chalk that was the color of 'castle rock grey' and then a separate bag for 'castle rock beige' I might just do that.
Feel free to respond.
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Rob_James
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt. Cook Village, New Zealand
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Jan 17, 2010 - 11:40pm PT
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Pleasure munge.
No I'm to be found well. Laps on the glacier this morning, went for a run, weights, and off to boulder in 20 mins. No deadly build-up (or soft bits to poke in the stomach here).
Yep. When you smear your white chalked hands all over that rock and leave it for others to see from the bottom - you be the hypocrite.
You are in part correct, and tick marks are not my scene either. And if you are to cite the standard, know that nobody should be leaving chalked hand prints tracking-up a route either.
If folk can't get chalk to match the outcrop, then either brush the chalk off before heading home, or grow some horns on those hands and go without.
You mean well. You just need to understand. Thank you for raising worthy discussion.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2010 - 11:58pm PT
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Then it's me that is annoyed at being indoors, without doubt.
'preciate you keeping this thread bumped to the top.
cheers,
M
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Daphne
Trad climber
Mill Valley, CA
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Jan 18, 2010 - 12:00am PT
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I use chalk-- not very much outside because I don't need it very much outside. Sometimes it feels like a psychological crutch. I am happy to look at that aspect in order to respect others and the rock.
How do I "color" it? Do you keep different colors of chalk for Yos and for Pinns, and JTree, etc?
Do I need to stop at every place I need it/use it and brush off the hold after I use it? Do you do this?
Sorry, I'm just a noob tryin' to get educated.
oh, edit: I am a trad climber, not a boulderer.
edit: so far I don't remember ever ticking, can really get behind not doing that... waiting with anticipation for the colored chalk answer. I haven't seen this colored chalk/chalk which can't be seen of which you speak...
also, my regular partner who has been climbing over 40 years says they will have to pry the chalk bag from his cold, dead fingers...
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climbingjones
Trad climber
grass valley,ca
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Jan 18, 2010 - 12:08am PT
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No Daphne you dont need to brush off your chalk/tick marks after you climb. Some people just like to bitch. Does it really bother you that much? Jesus Harold Christ! Get over yourself. Seems Bay Area climbers (isnt that the definition of an oxymoron?) like to feel important and better than you. Castle Rock does indeed suck out loud. But then again, if you live in the Bay Area.........
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2010 - 12:16am PT
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No Daphne you dont need to brush off your chalk/tick marks after you climb.
climbingjones, you are wrong in the most unequivocal way possible.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Jan 18, 2010 - 12:40am PT
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No chalk!?
Chalk has been banned?!
Wha...?
Man, POD won't look the same.
I won't know what pebble to pinch.
In all seriousness, I use chalk, don't like the look of it, it does make it easier for others following (unless some kook chalks the wrong hold hee hee) and from here on out will try and use it sparingly.
Tick marks are totally different and if you see someone doing that you should tick them, and see how THEY like it.
Dynamic ropes, sticky rubber, chalk, cams... we're all a bunch of pansies. Let's just all admit it. The difficulties go up, and the adventure goes down.
Chuck Taylors, a hemp rope, a bowline, and an onsight FA - now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout.
And I grew up in SJ and Castle Rock is a fine bouler area. It's the tards climbing there (all of us) that bring it down.
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Queener
Mountain climber
Fresno / Monterey/Reedley, CA
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Jan 18, 2010 - 01:11am PT
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Well to me the bigger problem at Castle is the busted beer bottles and graffiti. I don't draw lines all over problems. Climbing has become so widely popular that you can no longer try to make a difference about chalk marks. Hell the most disgusting thing to climbing is ourselves. We are the best trail builders and cleaners of moss and dirt, not to mention to effects of setting crash pads on the ground, I won't even get into bolting and leaving webbing on routes... or large metal chains. If we are to bitch about it all, we ourselves should stop climbing and let the earth return to its original form. But if we stop, other will continue. So why stop? Why initiate trail building and clean ups if the trails are going to be ignored and the bottles strewn across the ground, again? Why post on SuperTopo? Who reads? Who cares? Really? As much as I would love to change the effects of climbing, I can't but feel helpless in doing so...
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Currently in San Diego
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Jan 18, 2010 - 01:26am PT
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I havent seen "neutral" colored chalk widely sold in climbing shops where I have been, and I have been in and out of quite a few and would have noticed something like that.
Chalk, like most things in moderation, isn't a terrible thing. If you are climbing at an area with a great deal of use, traces will be left to some extent, but it would be appropriate for people to minimize those traces as much as possible. Ticks are excessive and should be avoided or cleaned off. Same with chalk spills and other unsightly messes.
Holds on established routes and problems that have a slight tinge of residual chalk doesn't seem worthy of getting ones shorts in a knot. I see it as being a pretty clear difference- ticking and using chalk in general. Sorry for being redundant.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 18, 2010 - 01:56am PT
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Morris did it.%^)
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hooblie
climber
from where the anecdotes roam
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Jan 18, 2010 - 02:01am PT
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in keeping with the tone of queener's post, which bears merit for pointing out all the little things we justify as "improvements,"
let me say that i love castle rock, grew up there, passed some transformative times there before, in an attempt to improve things i suppose, varian bought the place and turned it into a place on the map.
having seen the effect of the effort i have to add that act of publification as possibly the most deleterious of all.
sure you recognize the devil advocating here, but the self adjudicated act of altruism is the common theme, right up to and including
"saving" it from obscurity because he, and subsequently they, could afford to weigh in (leave his mark) with cash. ticking writ large.
absolutely the proliferation of the open space initiative is a wonderful aspect of the area. if bozos could hold them self in check,
(and if pigs could fly) we could enjoy the the best intentions of our benefactors without reservation
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Rob_James
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt. Cook Village, New Zealand
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Jan 18, 2010 - 02:28am PT
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And for those considering, if you can't get suitable chalk from your supplier; write a letter, make a point, go without and/or minimize and mix with local dirt.
Consider simply. How by far more awesome is it to show-up with no holds defined, and just re-discover it all cleanly yourself?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 18, 2010 - 03:05am PT
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Given existing tensions and access issues in CRSP and SCP, it would seem using tick marks there would be a really bad idea all around.
EXISTING CONDITIONS Castle Rock State Park General Plan
ROCK CLIMBING AND THE PROTECTION OF SIGNIFICANT RESOURCES
A goal of park management is to provide opportunities for the visiting public to enjoy the
park. Another goal is to maintain or restore the qualities of natural features and
processes that visitors experience and enjoy. Because recreational pursuits impact
these qualities, the challenge becomes one of deciding how much change will be
allowed to occur, where, and what actions are needed to manage or mitigate it.
This are designated for climbing encompasses rock features, scenic vistas, and easy
trail access, which makes the Castle Rock Ridge one of the more popular destinations
for visitors to Castle Rock State Park. The presence of appealing climbing routes, the
growing interest in this sport, and the convenient location of this park to the Santa Clara
Valley has made rock climbing an integral part of planning and focus for the Castle
Rock Ridge area of the park. Rock climbing is one of the traditional uses of the park
occurring prior to the State’s acquisition, and several types and ability levels of climbing
are practiced. The unit issues special event permits for climbing instruction, and notice
is given that rock climbing is a “hazardous recreational activity,” as defined in
Government Code Section 831.7. Hikers, bird watchers, and others who are attracted
here by its natural beauty and opportunities for recreation are also frequent users of this
area.
The Department acknowledges these forms of recreation in the park, while at the same
time recognizing that resource values must be protected and preserved for the
enjoyment of present and future generations. However, impacts from climbing and
other forms of recreation, including soil compaction and erosion, moss removal from
scraped rock faces, ground vegetation removal, rock face exfoliation, disturbance to
wildlife, and bolting of rocks have resulted in a general decline in resource values. This
increase in climbing activity in the park has resulted in congested activity areas and has
caused users to pursue new climbs deeper into the interior of the park. Unauthorized
trails and rock bolting are appearing in areas previously undisturbed.
The Castle Rock Ridge area encompasses approximately 190 acres and is accessible
directly from the current main parking lot, Partridge Farm, and Saratoga Gap via the
Saratoga Gap and Ridge Trails. It is described as the Castle Rock Ridge Resource
Management Zone in Table 4 on page 58, and shown on the Resource Management
Zones, Map No. 5.
Rock climber
Geologic Features: Tafoni, Fossil Resources, and Associated Values
Castle Rock State Park is a popular destination for visitors because of its unique
geologic resources. Several sandstone outcrops of the Vaqueros and Butano
Formations in the park exhibit rare “tafoni” features. These differentially weathered
features, including caves, spheroidal masses referred to as “cannonballs,” and latticelike
structures on rock faces and walls termed “fretworks,” are often very fragile and can
be easily damaged.
Rock climbing on sandstone outcrops and boulders has become a popular form of
recreation in the park. However, impacts from this sport on rock features and
associated elements have resulted in a general decline in resource values. Impacts
include rock face exfoliation and tafone disturbance, moss removal from scraped rock
faces, soil compaction and erosion, ground vegetation removal, and disturbance to
wildlife. The Department acknowledges low impact climbing as a valid form of
recreation in the park, while at the same time recognizing that resource values must be
protected and preserved for the enjoyment of present and future generations.
Goal: Protect and preserve tafoni features, including caves, spheroid masses
called “cannonballs”, and lattice-work rock walls and faces. The fossil and
mineral record and specimens of Castle Rock State Park will also be
preserved.
Guidelines:
• Geological investigations will be performed on sandstone outcrops where
significant tafoni features are present in order to recommend and implement
appropriate measures for their preservation.
• Scientific investigation and analysis by various universities and museums should
be encouraged to broaden the knowledge of park resources. Private collection
and willful disturbance or dislodgment of the geological forms shall not be
allowed.
• In order to protect natural resource values, only low-impact recreational climbing
(defined below) will be allowed. A climbing management plan should be
developed that protects natural and cultural features, especially tafoni, and
includes mitigation for impacts resulting from climbing.
For purposes of this plan, low-impact rock climbing is defined as that form of rock
climbing that does not destroy or place into jeopardy of destruction the unique
tafoni features inherent in many rock outcrops. Low-impact climbing considers
the use of climbing equipment, including the appropriateness and possible use of
bolts, and prohibits the deliberate destruction of lichen, vegetation, soils, rock
surfaces, and/or rock art, including pictographs and petroglyphs, and prehistoric
rock shelter sites.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jan 18, 2010 - 01:02pm PT
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You mean well. You just need to understand.
Kiwi go home.
Sad to say this, but the French are in the lead when it comes to bouldering and impact. Most of the locals at Fontainebleau are really rigorous about using the chalk sparingly, and brushing it off once they've finished a problem.
Castle is about as close to SF as Bleau is to Paris. Weirdly, Bleau can feel a lot more pristine.
Except for the hookers.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 18, 2010 - 01:25pm PT
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Well to me the bigger problem at Castle is the busted beer bottles and graffiti.
What? You must mean Summit Rock. And for all this whining I gotta say CRSP is actually a pretty pristine park (aside from tick marks). When was the last time you guys were there? I never see any trash out there.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jan 18, 2010 - 01:38pm PT
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Chalk is Cool.
"most rock looks better with chalk on it." Dick Cilley.
It's deliberate ticks that are bad. aid for the peretrators, and generally a hazard for subsquent ascentionists, especially if they very in any aspect of dimension form the bloated ticker.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jan 18, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
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They may have had more success if they had written it in French.
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gonzo chemist
climber
the Twilight Zone of someone else's intentions
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Jan 18, 2010 - 03:04pm PT
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Tick marks???
Holy crap you guys should have seen Equinox in JTree yesterday. A friend and I walked out there b/c he wanted lead it. All he could say when we got to it was, "what a shame, I don't need any of those things." Anyway, he cranked it out. It was awesome! man I wish we had a third person for pictures.
But how disgraceful that someone couldn't even take the time to wipe the marks off.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jan 18, 2010 - 03:15pm PT
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Some butt head had done that to Trenchwarfare, the last time I led it, so incredibly distracting........Grumble
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jan 18, 2010 - 03:36pm PT
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"Stop talking and start chalking!"
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Jan 18, 2010 - 03:42pm PT
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Weirdly, Bleau can feel a lot more pristine.
Really? And yet there are permanent color coded markings, numbers, and arrows at the base of every problem at Bleau, (demarcating difficulty and the circuits, for those who haven't been). I despise tick marks and heavy chalked up holds as much as anyone, but heaven forbid we start painting the rock here in America. Or have we started already, and I'm just unawares?
white for the children's circuit
marking maintenance
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dirhk
Trad climber
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Jan 18, 2010 - 03:50pm PT
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Quoting mungeclimber:
when you tick mark, it says "I'm such a horrible climber I need a mark to tell me where the hold is, and oh btw, land managers, climbers are so stupid that they leave big marks on the boulders so that it is almost like graffitti! woot!"
Big Up made a video of these horrible climbers, and called it Progression. Here are some screenshots:
Tommy Caldwell:
Alex Honnold:
Hey it's not new school:
Daniel Woods:
Kevin Jorgeson:
Paul Robinson:
Photos could be removed upon request, is this illegal?
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Jan 18, 2010 - 03:50pm PT
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any photos of the offending eyesore(s)?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2010 - 03:59pm PT
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Do all those locations have access issues or a combination of that and high visibility to other park visitors?
if yes, the standard is the same.
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Queener
Mountain climber
Fresno / Monterey/Reedley, CA
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Jan 18, 2010 - 04:08pm PT
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bluering
Well to me the bigger problem at Castle is the busted beer bottles and graffiti.
What? You must mean Summit Rock. And for all this whining I gotta say CRSP is actually a pretty pristine park (aside from tick marks). When was the last time you guys were there? I never see any trash out there.
Go over to the backside of Indian rock, the San Jose side. Go down to the base of that and take a look around.... its sprinkled with broken glass. It is ridiculous. People toss them off from the base of Donkey Dong... The most concentrated area is right next to Santa Cruz Dude. Take a look, and where thick shoes.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jan 18, 2010 - 04:09pm PT
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Yeah, a bunch of those boys in the photos have ADDED bolts to existing lines, Rap bolted routes in Ground up areas, and sent the hardest sh#t in the world.....
WE are talkin about CRSP with a bunch of prana wearin, clean toothbrush holding, 5 gallon bucket of chalk carrying, 8 maxi pad per send POOFTER's who don't send. I have never seen a kid with a trash bag in his hand doing a little clean up at CR. I do this EVERYWHERE I climb.
So is trash worse than ticks worse than ground deterioration worse than chipping worse than......
Oh and Rob J- take that silly sh#t about the chalk and sell it to the POOFTER's
Mucci
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Queener
Mountain climber
Fresno / Monterey/Reedley, CA
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Jan 18, 2010 - 04:15pm PT
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Mucci,
WE are talkin about CRSP with a bunch of prana wearin, clean toothbrush holding, 5 gallon bucket of chalk carrying, 8 maxi pad per send POOFTER's who don't send. I have never seen a kid with a trash bag in his hand doing a little clean up at CR. I do this EVERYWHERE I climb.
I am a kid. I wear Prana. I have one chalk bag, complete with brush. I normally truck in two crash pads on my back. I send, a lot. I clean up trash, alone.
If we all set up a day to do trail clean ups then we all won't be doing it alone.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 18, 2010 - 04:19pm PT
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Here, Queenie??
It must be a recent development, the glass, but I haven't been to the backside of Indian in a while.
I did find a couple of vintage 70's PBR cans though.
Sorry for the 'Queenie' jab, I couldn't resist...
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Josh Nash
Social climber
riverbank ca
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Jan 18, 2010 - 04:19pm PT
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Hi,
what I don't get is how come no one is defending the practice on this forum. If there are enough people who tic mark surely some one has a logical argument as to why? May I also pose another question? Why are you using chalk in winter anyway? Do your hands really get that sweaty on cold rock in january?
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Queener
Mountain climber
Fresno / Monterey/Reedley, CA
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Jan 18, 2010 - 04:23pm PT
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It must be a recent development, the glass, but I haven't been to the backside of Indian in a while.
Sorry for the 'Queenie' jab, I couldn't resist...
Dude, you can't come close to offending me... I went to school. I know every possible variation there.
I was there on the back side about three months ago. The ground was sparkling with glass. Like everywhere within throwing distance. I have no reason to make this story up. There was so much glass it was ridiculous. I tried picking some up and filled up my coffee cup. Sierra was the beer of choice.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jan 18, 2010 - 04:30pm PT
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Queen- rally your troops then, I consistently see large mob's descending on the Castle who don't have your ethic.
I appreciate all who put in selfless hours of rehab in our spots, problem is the groups I have seen at the Castle don't do anything to better the area.
This generation I speak of is bred from the gym, and have no business outside. Can't tell you how many rats I have had to save with ropes on high balls at castle.
Hell Bluey and I met a kid at an anchor who threaded his rope through the hangers, oblivious to our comments that a rap anchor was 5 feet behind him. His response "I have done this a hundred times" To which I responded " I know I have carried more than a few guys like you out to the ambulance"
Poofter's
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 18, 2010 - 04:47pm PT
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Queener, I was just talking to a buddy at work here who is one of my regular partners and brought up your comment regarding Indian and he said,"What, he must be talking about Summit", and also commented that Indian isn't CRSP, but that's besides the point really.
We concluded that what has probably happened is that the Summit party-goers have since moved the 'party' to Indian. They prolly scramble up the front (road) side and party at the top with the spectacular view of San Jose's lights at night. And then chuck bottles off.
They prolly left Summit because it's closed and patrolled more now.
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Queener
Mountain climber
Fresno / Monterey/Reedley, CA
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Jan 18, 2010 - 04:49pm PT
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Is there any good solution to cleaning chalk caked on the rock? I've scrubbed a hell of a long time to get even a little chalk off the holds. Obviously brushes don't work unless you have hours on hand. What else could work to speed the clean up process faster than the application from dorks with buckets of chalk?
-Q
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 18, 2010 - 04:58pm PT
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Is there any good solution to cleaning chalk caked on the rock?
The best thing is probably a mild solution of carbonic acid and water...or rain.
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gonzo chemist
climber
the Twilight Zone of someone else's intentions
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Jan 18, 2010 - 05:22pm PT
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Queener,
try vinegar. The acetic acid in the vinegar should react with the magnesium carbonate, producing magnesium acetate and carbonic acid (which should break down into CO2 and H2O). However, don't use vinegar if you're cleaning limestone. You'll just dissolve the rock.
-Nick
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jan 18, 2010 - 05:50pm PT
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. . . there are permanent color coded markings, numbers, and arrows at the base of every problem at Bleau, (demarcating difficulty and the circuits, for those who haven't been). I despise tick marks and heavy chalked up holds as much as anyone, but heaven forbid we start painting the rock here in America.
That's true. In Fontainebleau, that tradition dof painting arrows on the rock ates back to the early 19th century, before the rise of technical rock climbing. The earliest leisure trails in the woods were marked by painting small blue arrows on the rocks to indicate direction and distance.
In the US, signposting is usually done with big fabricated signs. In France, the tradition instead (where possible), is to paint arrows on the rocks. I don't see that habit as more invasive or annoying than our preference for big ugly signs.
Climbers apparently began using arrows on technical circuits back in the 1950s. They don't bother me much, since they're not much different from the ones used on the hiking trails. Left alone, they sun fade pretty rapidly. They are closely regulated at 'Bleau by a climber coalition-- COSIROC --in affiliation with the land managers, so they don't appear haphazardly.
They really don't bother me, anymore than the tiny arrows Gill put on some of his problems.
So yes, if we had a comparable history (which we don't), I'd much prefer to see a small red arrow at the base of my favorite CR V5 than the jillions of white lines, tics, arrows, prints, and slobber marks splattering tiny white ball bearings over all the footholds I saw the last frickin time I was there.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 18, 2010 - 06:06pm PT
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blue, you put any kind of acid on Castle Rock choss and you will be left with little to climb.
I was making a rain joke, Wes. As a hydrologist you should know that rain contains a very mild amount of carbonic acid. Hence the weathering effects of rain.
I learned that in introductory Geology in college, surely you know this too.
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Srbphoto
Trad climber
Kennewick wa
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Jan 18, 2010 - 06:46pm PT
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How do you fellas feel about "landing strips?"
Yes, especially on brunettes.
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Wack
climber
Dazevue
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Jan 18, 2010 - 07:13pm PT
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Munge; I agree with the exception of "Permanent Erection". Like ML in the Valley it needs to be freshened up every so often.
As for cleaning during the greasy summer months, scrub them good with a nylon brush to remove the loose stuff. Hit it with IPA, scrub and rinse with water.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jan 18, 2010 - 07:17pm PT
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SRB- let's not forget those redheads!
Classic.
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gonzo chemist
climber
the Twilight Zone of someone else's intentions
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Jan 18, 2010 - 07:19pm PT
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mucci,
ya beat me to it!!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jan 18, 2010 - 07:24pm PT
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Redheads are always trouble....
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2010 - 07:27pm PT
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"Can't tell you how many rats I have had to save with ropes on high balls at castle."
mucci, really? wow, serious punter action.
Wack, I must have missed that chalk outline.
I've got pics of landing strips around here somewhere, just need to find them... but I don't think we're talking about the same thing.
heh
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jan 18, 2010 - 07:36pm PT
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One rescue was on Castle rock proper. Bunch of mats... Bunch of chalk....innability to downclimb easy 5th.
Jaybro- YOu are spot on yet there is something about those gingers that keeps pulling me in.
Most have great headlights.
Mucci
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Srbphoto
Trad climber
Kennewick wa
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Jan 18, 2010 - 07:38pm PT
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mucci - I stand corrected (because I can't sit down)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 18, 2010 - 08:42pm PT
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~1/10000 times less carbonic acid (H2CO3) than the other major carbonate in rain water. Bonus question: what is the major form of carbonate in natural waters?
I knew you'd try to wriggle out of this some how....pretty weak, dude.
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Rob_James
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt. Cook Village, New Zealand
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Jan 18, 2010 - 08:48pm PT
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Bluering: You're just a little too pudgy soft in the belly to be ever calling anyone else weak. Answer the damn question dilettante.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 18, 2010 - 09:22pm PT
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I don't know, Rob. And I don't pretend to....
You're just a little too pudgy soft in the belly to be ever calling anyone else weak.
WTF does that mean? Are you trying to call me soft or some sh#t? Who the f*#k are you?
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Jan 18, 2010 - 09:27pm PT
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These kind of things don't happen in greenie land...
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jan 18, 2010 - 11:54pm PT
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if one or two of you freaks are tired chalk, come on down,
i will be putting up some routes on this slab that nobody has done,
aquarian valley, you hold the camera and watch this monkey work out 1 time.
then you get the next FFA. but the hike out is steep, hardcore types only
here is the slab in question>
this guy probably has 2 good routes waiting to happen>
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2010 - 12:01am PT
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I'll go blind if I see something like that!!!
that or racing stripes
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jan 19, 2010 - 12:10am PT
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there is this overhanging choss if you know how to work it, not for me,
weird fog from the central valley was blowing in, opposite the norm,
this made vortex currents , which was a real treat
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Kevmn
Gym climber
Snob Franpsycho
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Jan 19, 2010 - 12:24am PT
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Bonus question: what is the major form of carbonate in natural waters?
Uh.,, I'm gonna say... Calcium Carbonate?
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jan 19, 2010 - 12:40am PT
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urine?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 19, 2010 - 04:20pm PT
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Here's a nasty tick mark.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 19, 2010 - 04:50pm PT
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Not my pussy. I keep mine shaved.
White hairs on your willie? You must be old.
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Wack
climber
Dazevue
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Jan 19, 2010 - 07:55pm PT
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"Wack, I must have missed that chalk outline."
The feature is on Billy Goat Rock, on the way to Goat. It's not really an outline, just a few tick marks that don't have anything to do with holds.
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LithiumMetalman
Trad climber
cesspool central
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Jan 19, 2010 - 10:09pm PT
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Eco-chalk!!
I rarely climb with chalk, but if I do I climb with this stuff!
the chalk leaves very little residue if any at all (grey), it works well for just drying the hands.
Castle Rock is a treat to boulder, the sandstone is absolutely a delight.
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d0novn
climber
ca
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Jan 20, 2010 - 12:41am PT
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I have been at castle rock last week i think? noticed these tick marks coming from climbers working on eco that cannot climb it but rather tick random spots AND spots that are not actual grips. not the biggest deal its chalk, but if i see you doing this me along with other locals that go there daily will be very annoyed. Last couple of weeks the only issue is eco, the entire lip is basically chalky along with the arete on the left. COLORED CHALK IS UNACCEPTABLE. you may think you may be preserving the environment but instead are just screwing up these climbs until the next rain. Another serious issue is the overpopulation of climbing on a day after a storm. If you do decide to climb on a wet day stay away from the more delicate climbs out of the very least consideration. chances are ill see the anonymous ticker up there ;)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2010 - 01:21am PT
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not from this weekend, but previously found at CRSP...
This is from the end move on the Dog Dish Traverse...
You can't see the arrows from the start of the move anyways.
IDJIOTS!
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jan 20, 2010 - 01:30am PT
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I am posting up by eco with a 12 pack, hammock, and daisy pump this weekend.
Feel free to join me.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jan 20, 2010 - 01:48am PT
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this is like complaining about the guy's costume on the Disney matterhorn.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2010 - 03:31am PT
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I hated those guys costume with their short hair requirements!
least I'm consistent.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jan 20, 2010 - 11:41am PT
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{i]this is like complaining about the guy's costume on the Disney matterhorn.
ok, that's sort of funny.
looking out the window, and i bet all the tic marks are gone now.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jan 20, 2010 - 11:57am PT
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Mungeclimber, you wanna help me with this FFA party, i need just a few good men.
virgin sandstone awaits those who know how to jungle stud.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Jan 20, 2010 - 12:22pm PT
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I tick a hold here and there, and brush it off when I'm done. Not at CRSP, though (I've never been there).
The funny thing to me is the people who say "it's a crack, how can you possibly need tick marks"...well, go try some blue to green alien sized cracks above your limit where you can only get your tips in at very specific spots and get back to me.
You can skip using the tick mark, but you'll just end up with a palm sized chalk spot after a bunch of attemps from slapping around trying to hit that spot wide enough for tips...and that resulting softball sized chalk spot is not really much different than a tick mark.
It does seem pretty out of hand in some bouldering areas, but did you take the time to brush them off yourself and maybe set an example, or just bitch about it on the intardwebs?
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Rob_James
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt. Cook Village, New Zealand
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Jan 20, 2010 - 12:31pm PT
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Elcapinyoazz: O'h but it's just a fingertip boulder crack. So no need for tick marks and no need for chalk. Just wipe your sweaty hands with a towel before each few-minutes effort.
As a good friend remarks. So many make the summit. But they don't make the style. Self-fulfilled postulators.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Jan 20, 2010 - 12:42pm PT
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We could go the Hubers route circa 2000ish and put white dots of tape next to holds (El Nino?). Or Hubers circa 2003 which was tick stripes (Zodiac, we climbed it while they were up there working on the FFA). That was a rare instance where I was glad to see someone else's tick marks (just to marvel at what they were using for feet on the Nipple pitch, it was ridiculous and cool to see). But there's not really any tourist/bird watcher type impacts from tick marks 1000' off the deck, and I sure as hell wasn't trying to free pitches up there, so it didn't impact my experience negatively.
No real point here other than, "it's all shades of gray"
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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Jan 20, 2010 - 12:52pm PT
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I'm kinda on board with the kiwi...if you have "sweaty palms" then maybe climbing, nor dating, is in your cards.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 20, 2010 - 01:12pm PT
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I've seen pics of that Italian square artwork before, would love to catch that in person sometime. Tick marks - a bummer - and who under the age of 50 brushes them off.
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drunkenmaster
Social climber
santa rosa
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Jan 20, 2010 - 01:15pm PT
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so im a horrible climber because i use tick marks? and so are the hubers and most other "hard" climbers? the fact is that we have probably developed a lot more fa and climbed a lot harder then you tick mark haters. although climbing hard is relative you have to admit that the holds and sequences are harder to remember on a 5.13 or v10 then on a 5.9 or v1. if you dont know this thats because youve probably never done a 5.13 or v10. and thats not even that "hard" anymore. its the tick stripes that are annoying and when used they need to be removed. also when every hold is ticked or the footholds are chalked (which usually decreases friction) that is lame. but a tiny tick mark next to a few key holds can not even be seen by most non climbers that share the outdoors with us. and compared to the chalk all over the holds it is not even an issue i think. i agree with the "grey area" a few tiny tick marks are fine but leaving huge tick stripes and ticking every hold is lame. and no i was not at crsp a few weeks ago so it wasnt me :) my guess is it was some of the gym climber punks from the nearby cities with more muscles then brains and no respect for the outdoors.
ticks dig me.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 20, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
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...but a tiny tick mark next to a few key holds can not even be seen by most non climbers that share the outdoors with us.
Maybe not 20 pitches up on El Cap, but at bouldering venues and crags they are imminently visible and to dismiss that impact is taking a pretty casual and foolish attitude at places like CRSP where tensions are already running high. Resource managers at agencies take this stuff seriously, climbers get f#cked pretty much every time when we blow it off as stupid or inconvenient. Whining after the fact doesn't really cut it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jan 20, 2010 - 02:04pm PT
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Sprock, I'll give you a hand on that Aquarian choss when things dry out.
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drunkenmaster
Social climber
santa rosa
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Jan 20, 2010 - 02:11pm PT
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that is true and i know this and yes people need to not get the wrong idea that i think it is ok to tick everywhere but really a few tiny tick marks are not that big of a deal compared to the huge tick stripes that are the issue as i mentioned and also compared to the huge chalk marks from sweaty palm people like me it is not that big of a deal. but yes all this needs to be considered at places with possible access issues. there are probably a lot of other things that will be a problem - not tick marks. ive seen lots of real spray paint graffiti and trash and broken glass at all these areas and a few tick marks is not that big of a deal comparitivly.
to say im a horrible climber because i tick mark is just asking for me to reply. i do like to argue.
how about the graffiti in the stoner cave at aquarian now that is something to talk about. if i caught those punks - they would be in for a mess of sh#t.
castle has beautiful rock by the way, i love it.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2010 - 02:33pm PT
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If the rock is ugly, like CRSP, who cares?
God hates you for saying CRSP is ugly. She told me so.
new proposition: DrunkenMrSummitMaster will take the affirmative and Weschrist will take the opposition. You each will have 3 posts within which to make your points, or finish your drinks, whichever is first.
The proposition is:
Old E in the Valley is weak.
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Jan 20, 2010 - 02:36pm PT
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methinks chalk begets chalk.
i go with a strip ripped off a notel 6 towel hanging off the back of my harness. a pal turned me onto the fact (ok, hypothesis) that stopping to chalk up is far more about getting one's synapses aligned than any friction advantage worthy of note. i've found this to be true. though on the full disclosure front, i will admit i've at times rubbed some chalk into my stolen towel on especially sweaty days.
i do this even on soapy chalked up trade routes. i ask myself 'is a poofy dust glove really gonna make a difference on a route where all the lockers and knobs already look like guano?' and i answer 'nah'. though i have been known to give myself a 2 adjective upgrade in my own head after i top out on a really soapy route. but i soon forget the number and just remember the line.
~~~
as for tick marks, i deem them cheesy. if you can't remember a sequence, even at your absolute limit (better put: especially at your absolute limit) -- then maybe you should consider checking in for detox, or at least a downshift from the mighty 40 ouncers to the more pedestrian 12 ouncers. sheesh.
on the very hardest stuff i've ever done (nothing especially massive, but not entirely lame), i can recall every sequence at will, to this very day. i sometimes even dream them. i've checked my memories with pals who been up these routes since and found my memories on target (the blue hair betties down at the diner must wonder WTF we are up to as we go through what looks like a cross between tai chi and mime down in booth five). but to date, my pals and i always mirror the same sequences, in real time -- they remembering a month ago, me mostly years ago.
to my small mind, if you can't do that perhaps best to take up bowling. they use chalk (i think), and they don't have to remember anything. ok, i guess they do need to remember which ball is theirs.
~~~
that said, i guess if you are attempting a quarter mile of .13+++ in a day, maybe the rules are different. (dogboy rule #26: don't question the tactics of your betters whose skills and output tower over your own.)
that and perhaps i should send Tom Bodett a check for the 75 or so towels i, er, borrowed from him.
^,,^
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
drunkenmaster: "ticks dig me!?" was really funny, albeit somewhat less so the second time.
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Wack
climber
Dazevue
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Jan 20, 2010 - 03:17pm PT
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"COLORED CHALK IS UNACCEPTABLE"
The first gen stuff was like having graphite smeared on the holds. I had hoped the new stuff was better.
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LithiumMetalman
Trad climber
cesspool central
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Jan 20, 2010 - 04:02pm PT
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The newer eco-chalk doesn't smear from my experience, but then again I don't coat my hand in the stuff (just the tips of my fingers), and use only on the sweatiest days, as someone else mentioned, I use a towel / shirt for drying my hands.
Most often or not,not having the chalk bag, I find, can be better (most times) because it's not a "psychological crutch". Allowing for constant flow in movement and not a break or a 'waste of motion' chalking...it may sound unusual but sometimes stopping to chalk up seems to waste more energy(for me)than help.
At the same stroke,having chalk on a hot humid day or sweaty day can help, and help save one save energy from being wasted fighting against sweat
I agree with DrunkenMaster, on harder sequences or long sequence routes / boulder problems, sometimes having a small tick "can" help (especially hard foot sequences)
At the same time I also agree with Pip the Dog, that ticking for a sequence can detract from the problem, and in some instances could be "Cheating?", rather than relying on the mind, memory & experience to make up for the differences. (Relying on natural markings, rock discrepencies, enagrams, "mind/movement" sequences, etc to help)
However the greater point is:
Have fun climbing & be a good steward to the rock and area around b/c it's for everyone and everything to enjoy.
Cheers
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2010 - 04:51pm PT
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dogboy rule #26: don't question the tactics of your betters whose skills and output tower over your own.)
Pip,
I think I know what you're saying, but as a broad principle to adhere to, I don't always think that's the right approach. Respect and appreciation is always good, for anyone really, but it shouldn't outweigh the net impact any particular action might have on access to the climbing community as a whole. Mind you I really don't think some tick marks thousands of feet up are going to be an impact as mentioned above, especially if they may get washed or scuffed away by the aiders of future ascents. For pure style issues, yeah, absolutely.
cheers all,
M
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Jan 20, 2010 - 09:41pm PT
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^^^^
we are of one mind on this, great one. dogboy rule #26 does not allow for permanent damage to rock, or actions that interfere with others' attempts or access, by anyone - no matter how gifted and driven.
as you anticipated, i was thinking more along the lines of perhaps some mighty one slapping a few chalk ticks while trying to wire some .14 on an el cap FFA. not for me to play Moses for those in that stratosphere; rather above my pay grade.
OTOH, someone "augmenting" (like chipping holds) in the same scenario would surely hear this dog bark, and ideally feel his bite. as would anyone who poof paints up such an eyesore that it attracts the attention of land managers and with that perhaps puts access at risk.
so yeah, we are of one mind on this.
all the best,
^,,^
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 21, 2010 - 01:03am PT
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+1 on the ballot item "Tick marks are no different than other chalk marks left behind"
This is more of a style issue. "How much beta did you use to climb the route?" Chalk marks for beta vs chalk marks for sweat vs chalk marks for psychological support...
So this is the chalk equivalent of the "just don't clip them argument" - clever.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jan 21, 2010 - 03:42am PT
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you know, a while back the Mungster does the Half Dome to Glacier Point Death March,
now he is back at Hastle Rock, i mean, the downgrade withdrawl shock must be intense, to the point of shoutin down rain barerls at the strapping young age of, (insert age here), now i think i understand this thread on a deeper level than first anticipated. anybody wanna buy some Crack Cocaine?
the first one is free. ever talk to a Vet? you won't get hooked, i promise.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Jan 21, 2010 - 10:48am PT
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Tick Marks?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jan 21, 2010 - 12:32pm PT
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this is still going?
thread has it all: chalk, groms, choss, trash, cops, kiwis, the purity of sweaty palms, the glacier, body fat percentage in new zealand, angry italians, french impressionists, redheads, pubic hygiene.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jan 21, 2010 - 12:43pm PT
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You guys are ticking me off..
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jan 21, 2010 - 12:49pm PT
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if you dont know this thats because youve probably never done a 5.13 or v10. and thats not even that "hard" anymore.
Whoa.....SSSSSPPRRAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!! Alert!
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Jan 21, 2010 - 01:12pm PT
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anybody wanna buy some Crack Cocaine?
Crack:
Cocaine:
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Jan 21, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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Spray....but true. I couldn't get up a V10 (let alone V7 right now) boulder problem for the life of me yet it seems that this is the where the game practically starts these days. A tick can be useful to pinpoint the sweet spot of a particular hold especially when dead pointing or dynamic moves are crucial for the send which is usually the case for climbs at these levels. There is no excuse however for not removing them when finished.
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Jan 21, 2010 - 03:10pm PT
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Elcapinyoazz:
outstanding photo choice -- makes the OP point in a heartbeat. who the fook needs that much executive white out on such a beast of a tipper in a corner on desert red rock? hell, it's not like some trade route on varnish all goobered up with gobs of sun block from the weekenders. WTF? who needs chalk on that kinda turf? hell, i've fallen off stuff half that hard on oven hot days out that way without a bit of chalk. (ok, my piss-ant bicoastal idea of insane desert hot is almost certainly tidily -- no need for you UT desert rats to pile on, i'll slap myownself. promise.)
i'm telling you, just a strip of cheap notel towel is more than enough, especially there. hell, just a deep breath and a quick shake out will desiccate the digits out that way, pronto. that and your brain.
~~~
KLK:
> this is still going?
> thread has it all: chalk, groms, choss, trash, cops, kiwis, the purity
> of sweaty palms, the glacier, body fat percentage in new zealand, angry
> italians, french impressionists, redheads, pubic hygiene.
yeah man, isn't it great! this is the kind of gig i love, and need when chained to an idiot box under fluorescent lights (like now). i mean, can we really capture climbing in words? i've yet to see it done. i've read great tales, surely, and gotten all damp in the pants staring at great photos. but translating the magic of getting all lost in just fingertips and toes into words? nah.
so if i can't get out and actually climb, and words are all i can get in this stupid cage, then: "choss, trash, cops, kiwis, angry italians, french impressionists, redheads, pubic hygiene..." and the like is a world better than doing what my moron client thinks i am doing -- and surely better than talking to him about his new 'redwood burl stick shift knob for his bmw' that he just got in the mail.
dude makes US$8m a year - minimum. and all he has is $200 redwood golf ball of a stick shift knob that he's wandering around the orifice showing everyone. everyone. i've noticed that all my fat cat clients get caught in that web -- every last one of them has a pile of catalogs for insanely priced entirely useless stuff next to their desk. every last one of them has fallen for the same dope that made them so rich. perhaps there is not only justice, but an insight in this. ummm, er, probably not...
just noticed that i've got a petzl catalog in my bag -- all manner of shiny must have guy gear described in 4 languages. and of course there is this stunning redhead just off my starboard bow at the receptionist desk. too bad she has the brains of a shellfish. hmmm... the possibility of 4 minutes of bliss -- followed by a lifetime of prattle. you'd think it be an easy call. but then people have paid $600 for a single slice of toro nigiri from the belly of a 100+ year old fat local bluefin. hmmm... girl sushi...
ok, back to writing a 200 word client letter defining why this outfit's clients should grab their ankles and buy boy genius his next redwood burl stick shift knob, or functional equivalent. simple random anti-chance i didn't write sh!t for bernie madoff (and end up mrs guido the icepick). hell, i may well be doing it right now.
so, who's the whore? who's the shellfish?
enough of this. this dog needs more ascii 'climbing' dope. next thread. hmmmm... "Ice climbing video from Canada" looks sweet. ho-yeah! and i'm still on the clock. and boy genius thinks his stick shift knob is pricey -- dhope!
^,,^
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2010 - 03:33pm PT
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Sprock, it's worse than you know.
I went to the gym last night.
Prolly getting a membership.
I feel shame and guilt.
age = old and soon to get older
Maybe I redeem myself in the coming weeks if the storms abate some. YESH!
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drunkenmaster
Social climber
santa rosa
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Jan 21, 2010 - 04:14pm PT
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this is sort of silly. tick marks are not the problem - it is the huge tick stripes that dont get removed that are the problem in my eyes and i agree about that. and if someone has a problem with it then that is lame compared to the real problems like trash, broken glass and the real graffitti in the area that can not be brushed off or does not wash off in the rain. i think those things would cause way more access issues and are not climber related.
i think there are far more important things to discuss/argue/debate/forget about.
how about getting to the root of the problem - no one on these forums does that much. so here i go; how about in the case of tick marks at crsp and everywhere - how about all climbing gyms start adding a short 5-10 minute lesson to the end of each 30-60 min climbing class to teach newbies a little respect for nature since that is where most gym climbers evolve to. gym bred newbies are most likely where most of these evil tick marks/stripes are probably coming from. people from the inner cities with little if any respect for the outdoors thinking it is just a sport and showing up at the rocks and since there is no bright colored tape for them to follow they put too many tick marks all over the rock and huge tick stripes then leave it when they leave. and probably are quite often rude to the other outdoor users and leave pieces of tape and other trash. to me that is far more of a problem. a few small tick marks wouldnt even be an issue if all that was decreased. i sweat a lot and my palms leave huge chalk marks that cover up tick marks. should i have to brush my chalk off every hold with a ladder or on rappel when im done or just not use chalk? good job trying to bring this to the surface munge. it does need to be dealt with. but i still will use tick marks and maybe i will just brush them off extra now. so should all of us. tick marks help my tick list. brushing them off helps us all. easy.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2010 - 04:27pm PT
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Si mon!
"brushing them off helps us all. easy."
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jan 21, 2010 - 05:36pm PT
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I went to the gym last night.
Prolly getting a membership.
i did last week. saw the longterm forecast. and then, the ankle i tweaked is hurting worse rather than less. skiing is out, hiking is out, and about the only thing i can do right now is yard on overhanging plastic blobs.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jan 21, 2010 - 06:39pm PT
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Ha, I knew there was a reason I dug FA's - no one else see my chalk cause their not in no stinkin guide book.
I'm a firm believer in white courage!
kev
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2010 - 06:50pm PT
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Coz,
This look like it? The arete's on, correct?
http://vimeo.com/8235630
The big long ones are sissy for sure!
Big long one? The Yabo problem? this one...
{Links to jeff n jen dot com have been disabled. Google reports the site is distributing malware. 6-4-13 st} /vids.htm
Video, Not work safe, fbomb big time.
Salad credit on second vid with the usual mudncrud crew. Munge credit on first vid, climber is Mark S. dude is strong.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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May 11, 2012 - 03:31pm PT
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Well, at least no one is chiseling the boulder problem's name and rating into the rock yet, so you'll know what problem your doing and the consensus rating! That would really stir up a hornet's nest . . .
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| Messages 1 - 138 of total 138 in this topic |
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