Bachar-Yerian timelinep-who did which ascent and when

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shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 28, 2009 - 03:41pm PT
I've been trying to figure out the sequence of the first 10 ascents or so, but everybody seems to have a different opionion. i'm hoping to get some clarity with dates and what not. would love to hear from mike waugh and jerry moffat who did early ascents. hears how i remember it
1) bachar and yerian 81
2) schneider and scott frye 83
3) kurt smith and ed barry 84
4) mike waugh and darryl nakahira
5) moffat and partner ?

i'm positive about the first 3, despite what cristian griffith claims he heard from bachar

other early notables
scott cosgrove and partner
rob oravetz(seconded by cosgrove)
christian griffith and tim wagner

any other early(1980's) ascents?

steve schneider
G_Gnome

Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
Dec 28, 2009 - 04:10pm PT
Steve, Mike never posts online but I know that he thinks that his ascent with Darryl was the first no-falls ascent. Fall 1984 sounds right.

Jan
Ray Olson

Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
Dec 28, 2009 - 04:36pm PT
Steve,

Pete Steres made an ascent as well but do not know
who partnered him, nor the date. I should have asked
him, never did.

good luck,
Ray
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Dec 28, 2009 - 04:57pm PT
Todd Worsfold led all pitches onsight in Summer of '85.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Dec 28, 2009 - 05:22pm PT
I'm still waiting for you to guide me up it, Steve. Didn't we have a deal once?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 28, 2009 - 05:24pm PT
How many times did John do it? And Dave?
overit

Trad climber
Boulder
Dec 28, 2009 - 06:29pm PT
Didn't Scott Burke send the whole thing? It may have been early 90's though.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Dec 28, 2009 - 07:00pm PT
Scott Burke did it at least 5 times...
426

climber
Buzzard Point, TN
Dec 28, 2009 - 07:09pm PT
Someone should sack up and do that thing sans bolts...




Oh wait...

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=633433



...Close enough for me...


Why just do 80's, we should probably recognize the "Audacity of Youth"!
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2009 - 08:03pm PT
this is some help. who is todd worsfold. summer of 85 would make him in the top ten. i'll ask burke where he came in, i know he's done the route more than anybody.
jan, you know mike? i would love to hear his timeline, i think summer of 84 is more likely than fall, it gets kind of cold
mark, NO DEAL. the deal was for you, me, and shelly. without the t and a its less attractive.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Dec 28, 2009 - 08:35pm PT
Damn! I was hoping you wouldn't remember that part!
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Dec 28, 2009 - 08:39pm PT
Had always heard that Lance Bateman and Dave Bell from SLC made an early ascent, and, that JB was there and he was pretty psyched on their effort.

Both those guys are around (saw Lance the other night).

Cheers,

-Brian
Ray Olson

Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
Dec 28, 2009 - 08:42pm PT
Steve, it may be possible Pete's ascent was among
among the first ten as well.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Dec 28, 2009 - 11:45pm PT
coz (Scott Cosgrove) said he did the 5th ascent.
He posted in the middle of the big Bachar-Yerian thread with all the cool photos and stories:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/375380/Bachar-Yerrian

coz

Trad climber
California Jun 29, 2009 - 04:49pm PT
I can, I did the fifth ascent of the B/Y and Bacher didn't sneak up to the base but walked up with me to take photos. I had train climbing knobs for about a month and basically just climbed as fast as I could to get it over with.

The third pitch gave me a little pause where everyone before me had broken off a few holds but I managed to wiggle by. John got some great photos.

I did it again many years latter and it felt about 11c, great climb.

I think, the thing I really still find amazing is, running it out that far hanging on a hook and drilling for fifteen minutes. Pure terror.

Bacher is and always will be the man!
------------
Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Dec 29, 2009 - 12:54am PT
Schultz did it by 87 or early 88, but that probably wasn't in the first 10 ascents??
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Dec 29, 2009 - 01:11am PT
Steve, Todd W. was an old school little known climber from N. Tahoe (now in S.F.) who moved out from the east coast in '83ish. I first met him through wally (Paul Tier) and wanky (Dave Le winter) and the North Tahoe boys. He was a heady confident climber with nerves of steel.
His FIRST El Cap route was a SOLO ascent of Eagles Way (on a recommendation from Troy Johnson) in '84/85 after his partner for the Nose bailed on him two weeks prior. He has also done repeats of seldom climbed Calaveras Dome sketch fests's authored by the late Dick Richardson.
On a summer day in '85 after frying the night before, Todd led every pitch of the BYR not knowing exactly what he was even on. In the summer of '86 he suggested that he and I go and do it together. I thought I might be capable of doing one of the leads so I agreed (bad joke). He led the first pitch and I cut my right index finger badly trying to just follow it. Blessing in disguise. I was nowhere near capable of doing the thing. We bailed.

Back to the topic at hand, Todd did an early ascent of the BYR in early summer '85. I just got off the phone with him and it brought back some good memories, hope this helps straighten the record.

KA
Fogarty

climber
BITD
Dec 29, 2009 - 01:18am PT
Sept 1985 It was a late evening attempt, the Trons Challenged me to climb this immortal piece of stone, I remember up and down climbing several times just to clip the first bolt, I reached the belay at the first pitch(NO FALLS) at dusk, I trailed a rope and raped of those infamies bolts and remember pulling the cord in the dark. I left the next day back to the OC. never to return?????????
Patrick Oliver

Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
Dec 29, 2009 - 01:42am PT
Did Wolfgang Gullich ever complete the route? I know he
went up and took a fall... But it slips my mind, whether
they went down or continued or returned later...
Fogarty

climber
BITD
Dec 29, 2009 - 01:59am PT


close but no cigar
British Headpointer Tries Bachar-Yerian on Natural Gear
Issue 172

In 1981 John Bachar cast off into the uncharted expanse of Mendlicott Dome, a steep 500-foot, knob-spackled granite face in Tuolumne Meadows, California, with nothing but a hand drill and bolts, some slings, hooks and cams. Climbing onsight and belayed by Dave Yerian, he established the litmus test for runout climbing, the Bachar-Yerian (5.11c R). Over the years, climbers have assayed their mental fortitude against Bachar’s standard by stepping up to onsight this piéce de résistance. Some succeeded, but others, famously, didn’t. Wolfgang Güllich (one of the strongest climbers in the world before his untimely death in a car crash), for example, broke a brittle foothold and zipped 60 feet onto his belayer while trying to make the second ascent.

In July, the 19-year-old English climber George Ullrich attempted to better Bachar’s style by skipping the nine bolts and protecting the face entirely with natural runners. Ullrich had already repeated some of the British Isles’ boldest headpoints, both on gritstone and, more recently, in the Lake District, where he sent two of Dave Birkett’s sparsely protected lines, Impact Day and Dawes Rides a Shovel Head. Both lines are rated E8 6c, which translates to scary, dangerous 5.13 climbing protected entirely by natural gear.

With that kind of background training, it’s no surprise that Ullrich managed to onsight the Bachar-Yerian while clipping the bolts, but his decision to try the line without the fixed pro might leave people scratching their heads, since the route largely lacks cracks that accept gear. Ullrich spent another day on the climb sussing placements, which, for the most part, consisted of slings hitched around the suspect knobs, and then he went for the send. Six feet from the third-pitch anchors (and the end of the difficulties), Ullrich balked, opting to clip the last bolt, and bringing his historic bid to elevate America’s iconic testpiece to a close.

Q&A

Why did you decide to try the Bachar-Yerian without the bolts?

After climbing it with Mason “Bob” Earle with bolts, I was excited to see that it looked possible to protect most of the climb by slinging chicken heads with small slings and cord, and I thought it would be fun to give it a bash. I climbed it once more clipping the bolts and I felt comfortable—kinda comfortable, actually. We got rained off the last pitch so I wasn’t able to check it out.



What happened at the end of the third pitch on your attempt without bolts?

Halfway up that bit, I realized that I didn’t actually have any decent protection to hold a fall, and I had only climbed the top section once before. After fiddling a crap wire into a hole, I was sketching and thought it sensible to clip the bolt a few meters up. A wise decision, as I did not feel comfortable on the top few moves. The crux of the route is halfway up the first pitch, protected by a sky-hook and a couple of cams below the break, but the top section is the psychological crux.

Other than that section, did you feel solid throughout? Yes, it was more mentally
Wolfgang
http://www.wolfgangguellich.com/artikel/a5.pdf?????

Watch this guy he makes the original bolts look BOMBER!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcg5arcKDCo

WOLFGANG

shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2009 - 03:29am PT
clint, thanks for showing me the b and y thread, although i'm too gripped now to sleep tonight. there's some curious discrepancies in there. i'm still checking out the thread. ciao, shipoopoi
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Dec 29, 2009 - 04:30am PT
Always glad to share cool threads like that one!!
Keep us posted on what you figure out on the timeline - definitely a worthy project.
The dates should help straighten out the puzzles, and I bet people will have pretty clear memories of it. (Maybe too clear?!)
I think some of those epic attempts should go in the timeline, too.
G_Gnome

Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
Dec 29, 2009 - 11:53am PT
Steve,

Waugh and I started climbing together and still climb together regularly. I believe his ascent was the 4th and was around Labor Day, so late summer not fall. We had done lots of hard knobs all summer (Alien, Mystery Acheivement, etc.) so he was well tuned.

Jan McCollum
WBraun

climber
Dec 29, 2009 - 01:30pm PT
And the Iron Monkey?
FTOR

Sport climber
CA
Dec 29, 2009 - 03:08pm PT
Funny, my memory has always been that I did it in '85 with you Scott, not too long after your ascent. Lead the 3 pitches without falls, you did the 4th.

I did go up there after the attempt by Gullich and Renault with Nelson but we also failed in our bid for the coveted second, though Alan's story as to what went down up there was more fiction than fact. I took the big fall on the second pitch after breaking a knob and that was it for me, wigged. Prior to that we did pull off the second of You Asked for It. That was '83.

Trained hard for two seasons with the goal of doing that route, and now it seems I should have also considered selecting a partner willing to recognize my accomplishment some 20+ years out as well. But really, it was another lifetime ago. When it comes down to it, getting John's nod in the parking lot afterwards has always been and will be enough acknowledgement for me.

Good luck with the list Steve.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Dec 29, 2009 - 04:40pm PT
Were the ascents by Griffith, Cosgrove, Moffat, Waugh, and Oravetz all in 1984?
(In same summer, but after Smith?)
Or were some in 1984 and some in 1985?
What month for the ascents by Griffith and Cosgrove? We have the month for Waugh's ascent (end of August).

Here is a rough list from these 2 threads:
year,month,day,ascent#,,,
1981,8,,1,John Bachar,Dave Yerian,"first ascent, over 3 days, no falls or hangs other than to place 4 of the bolts from hooks"
1982,,,attempt,Wolfgang Gullich,Thierry Renault,"Gullich fell 30' on p1, Renault fell 30' and 60' on p2"
1982,,,attempt,Alan Nelson,Rob Oravetz,"Oravetz fell on p2, ""Path of the Master"" article"
1983,,,2,Steve Schneider,Scott Frye,"Schneider led all pitches, no falls"
1984,,,3,Kurt Smith,Ed Barry,"Barry fell on p2, then went back up and led it"
1984?,,,4,Christian Griffith,Tim Wagner,no falls
1984?,,,5,Scott Cosgrove,,"1 week after Griffith, no falls"
1984?,,,,Jerry Moffat,John Bachar,"Moffat took a 15 meter fall, according to Gullich's book"
1984?,8,30,4?,Mike Waugh,Darryl Nakahira,"Waugh has done this route 5 times. Cosgrove recalls Waugh's first time was a couple of years later, but might be one of his later times?"
1985?,,,,Rob Oravetz,Scott Cosgrove,not long after Cosgrove's first time
1985,7?,,,Todd Worsfold,,"no falls, early summer"
198?,,,attempt,Tom Higgins,(rope solo),"backed off of p2, was using Jumar self belay"
198?,,,,Wolfgang Gullich,Heinz Zak,"Gullich led p1 w/ no pro, swung leads, no falls this time"
1986,,,,Dave Shultz,Al Swanson,with Greg Epperson taking photos
1988,,,,Lance Bateman,Dave Bell,"Bateman fell 50' on p2"

[edited]
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Dec 29, 2009 - 05:23pm PT
If the climbing is "only" 5.11, why did both Gullich and Renault fall on their attempt?
Broken knobs?
Otherwise, I can't fathom why such good climbers would fall on what, to them, must have been moderate terrain (just based on the numbers).
G_Gnome

Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
Dec 29, 2009 - 05:27pm PT
Well Mr. gym climber, have you ever tried standing on little tiny knobs when out 30 feet from your last bolt and you have been hanging on and standing on tiny knobs for 20 minutes already? And it is vert to overhanging...
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Dec 29, 2009 - 05:41pm PT
Well Mr. gym climber, . . .

No, I haven't tried the route or the equivalent.
But I wasn't talking about me, I was talking about Gullich, the first guy to climb 5.14 etc. etc.
I don't think he was someone who would get overly tired just becasue the route is slightly overhanging or you need to stand on some small holds.

I'm not a B/Y level climber but you take your condescending attitude and shove it, seeing as how your "answer" (ever so slightly steep and some small holds) in NO WAY addresses my question: why did 2 top level climbers fall on what is supposedly mid-level 5.11.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 29, 2009 - 05:50pm PT
The Nature of the climb, it seems to take a wider skill set...
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Dec 29, 2009 - 05:57pm PT
Waugh is THE MAN!! 5 times??? Hats of Mike.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 29, 2009 - 06:07pm PT
didn't alan nelson go back at some point and do it? maybe with peter siri?
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Dec 29, 2009 - 06:13pm PT
Jaybro: yes, that's what I was getting at and hoping that someone more knowledgeable than my humble, gym-climbing self could run with.
If I was on a top rope, being a 5.11 gym climber and all, I expect it would be no problem? Or are the ratings there much harder or something?
By today's standards, 5.11 seems pretty easy.

(I do not mean to take away from the accomplishments of those who have led the runout pitches: I understand that requires a level of virtuosity and daring that few people, even now, have. And I'm not one of those people.)
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Dec 29, 2009 - 06:23pm PT
By today's standards, 5.11 seems pretty easy.

That depends on an awful lot of factors.
I can tell you from personal experience that being out on the lead away from gear is a significant factor.

It's not easy, no matter what day it is.
Just my two cents.....
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2009 - 07:22pm PT
talked with coz today in person, he seems pretty sure about the first five ascents. it seems like everybody and their mother did it in 84/85. unless some people can break out specific dates, i'm inclined to go with scott's memory for the first five, with a virtual free for all for the next five.

blahblah...to answer you question. yeah, the ratings are sandbag. first pitch has a real hard move past the second bolt, and could easily go for a 5.12 rating here. the second pitch is 5.11+, sure no big deal for a top level climber, but the routefinding is 5.13. to toproute the second pitch, with chalk on the holds, going the right way, spending minimal time on it, no big deal. but leading the thing, climbing up, down, sideways, maybe hanging on too hard because the whipper is ever present, it is hard to make it 5.11. it'as only 5.11+ if you go the right way. and wolfie was not used to knob climbing, he was more of a redpointer than an onsighter, and it's tough trusting that knob climbing if you have not put the time in.

i led every pitch no falls on the second ascent, can't remember if frye fell or not.
Roger Breedlove

climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Dec 29, 2009 - 08:25pm PT
Great post, Steve. I have wondered about the specific issues of leading BY, beyond the runouts.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Dec 29, 2009 - 08:51pm PT
Great thread! I get it, how if you know EXACTLY where to climb, and precisely which knobs to grab, it might "only" be 5.11. But having to figure it out on lead, onsight, would make it hugely harder as you'd have to suss the moves, which wouldn't be all tick-marked with chalk.

How are the bolts these days? Does the route get climbed very often? On-sighted? Have any original knobs broken, rendering it harder these days?
G_Gnome

Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
Dec 30, 2009 - 12:17am PT
So who has the oldest person ascent on this now? I just might be on the thing next summer. My main climbing partner has the itch and is certainly capable.
socalbolter

Sport climber
Silverado, CA
Dec 30, 2009 - 12:23am PT
Also curious as to how often it gets done these days. My ascent was in '94 or '95 and at that time it was still somewhat uncommon. It seems though in recent years I hear a lot more about the route and was wondering if that was indicative of it getting more ascents?
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2009 - 06:26pm PT
i think the bachar yerian probably sees one or two ascents a year on average, it is definitely a rare day to see a party on it, and if you do, it's well worth the hike to see the show.
bachar and schultz replaced the bolts on the same day i replaced the bolts on slider banger, so both routes have good bolts now.

met with scott burk for the first time in years last night at his folks home in pinole. he did the b and y 5 times(tied with mike waugh i believe) from 90 to 94. in the last week i have seen burk, coz and kurt smith. we were all on the tm rescue team in the 80's and bachar was, and is, our total hero.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 30, 2009 - 06:32pm PT
Thanks, Steve. Did you see Leo (Scott's father)? A friend from the FaceLift, though he missed 2009 due to back trouble. Hope he's well.

Anders
Brian Biega

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 30, 2009 - 06:35pm PT
Scott and I climbed the B&Y around 97 or 98. My first time on the route, Scott's 7th. I led the 1st pitch (another story) and Scott led the 2nd and 3rd then we rapped per the Camanders request. We then raced to the Valley and stared up the Nose hoping to complete both routes in a day.

MyMyMy...

Brian
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Dec 30, 2009 - 06:52pm PT
Yeah, Clint's link (1st page) has some cool pics. That pic of the Frenchy 'bike-peddlin' on his way down is chilling.
mbb

climber
the slick
Dec 30, 2009 - 10:28pm PT
Bateman and Bell did it in the summer of 88, they were both 17. I was in Toulumne at the time with my friend Eric Wright. Bateman took a 60 footer on the first pitch, rested a minute, then fired it. I believe Bell led the next couple of pitches onsight.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 30, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
damn mike. i knew lance was a smokin' hot boulderer, but never knew he had sends THAT proud under his belt.

i'da been scared to top-rope the sucker.
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2009 - 01:12am PT
wow, this thread is really getting good. there are some discrepancies that are hard to explain. for example, brian biega says he did the b and y with burk in 97 or 98, for burk's 7th ascent. i talked face to face with burk last night and he says he did the b and y 5 times from 90 to 94, not 7 times.
or
mbb says lance bateman took a sixty footer on the 1st pitch, shook it off, and then sent the pitch, and dave bell led the upper two. well, lance took a big fall, probably closer to fifty than 60, and took it on the second pitch, NOT THE FIRST as mbb says. i know because i was there and watched it all. if you took a 60 footer on the first pitch, i seriously doubt that you would be shaking it off because that pitch slabs out below. but dave and lance were psyched, only had one rope, and it was impressive because dave received a huge ropeburn on his neck when lance fell past him. i THINK dave led the first and third. i KNOW lance led the second. dave probably still has a proud scar from it.

and although these seem like minor discrepancies, its gets really interesting when you get to talking about who did the fourth ascent. in the last week i have talked with kurt smith and ed barry who everyone agrees did the third. i've talked with scott cosgrove, mike waugh, daryl nakahira, christian griffith, elliot robinson, all who did early ascents, and there is not a consensus between them. i really wish bachar were still here to shed his light on the subject. i'm really not sure what to do at this point, and am almost sorry i started this thread...but not quite.
i'm just a natural blonde trying to figure out history. shipoopoi
E Robinson

climber
Salinas, CA
Dec 31, 2009 - 01:28am PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT13GuPZHMA
Brian Biega

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 31, 2009 - 10:17am PT
After thinking about it last night it was somewhere between 93 and 95. I cracked my skull in 96 so I will have to look back for the dates...

My friend John Scott from Truckee climbed the route with his wife on his honeymoon sometime in 89? and this summer or last (20 years later) they climbed it again.

Some other friends Josh Horniack, Pete Chase (Super Pete), Hans Standteiner and a number of other Tahoe locals have climbed the route with their friends. I think Josh and Pete have climbed the route a couple of times each. My guess would be that the route gets more than one or two ascents a year. In addition, there are most likely plenty of ascents (like Todds, the 17 year olds, John's, etc...) that are never noted.

One thing is for sure, the B&Y is an Amazing climb and I look forward to climbing it again...

Brian
Watusi

Social climber
Newport, OR
Dec 31, 2009 - 03:54pm PT
Hey BVB...I myself thought that Alan Nelson had done it...But could be wrong...
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2010 - 08:39pm PT
yeah watusi, alan nelson did it, but he took several tries to do so. i remember seeing a screamer he had engaged on a big fall that ended that attempt. shipoopoi
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jan 1, 2010 - 10:14pm PT
Well, one thing is for certain, I HAVE NOT DONE IT!

although, if anyone want's a badass belayer, I'm your man.
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2010 - 11:21pm PT
come on mark, man up and lead it all, just say you are going to do it and dig the hole for yourself. after all you are "state of the art and the art of the states." LOL, shipoopoi
KP

Trad climber
Fayetteville, WV
Jan 4, 2010 - 04:02pm PT
This is a fuzzy memory but an old friend of mine, Phil Heller, who put up a bunch of hard, scary routes at the New River Gorge told me he did the Bachar/Yerian in the mid to late 80's. Has anyone heard from him? Have not seen him in decades now....
klk

Trad climber
cali
Jan 4, 2010 - 04:11pm PT
. . . there is not a consensus . . .. i really wish bachar were still here to shed his light on the subject. i'm really not sure what to do at this point, and am almost sorry i started this thread...but not quite.
i'm just a natural blonde trying to figure out history.


welcome to my world.

except for the natural blond part.

most people believe that the best way to learn about history is to talk to someone who was there. but then you learn that human memories are one of the most difficult things to make into historical evidence.

good luck with this one.

entertaining reading regardless.

Mark Vallance

Trad climber
England
Jan 5, 2010 - 06:20am PT
On 25th August 1994 I hiked up to Medlicott with Tom Briggs, (aged 17) and Eve Prickett, (aged 16). Tom was all fired up for the Bachar Yerian, which at that time only got about one ascent per year, so we were surprised to find two other British climbers about to start the route. By the time they had completed the climb it was too hot for Tom to start.
Next day Tom and Eve climbed the route in excellent style. I thought at the time, that they were probably the youngest climbers to do so. That evening a case of beer arrived at our camp site from Peter Croft - a nice gesture from a great climber.
Hankster

Trad climber
Left Hand, CO
Jan 5, 2010 - 08:11pm PT
I did the 112th send in 93'! BITCHES!!!

Caylor
guyman

Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jan 6, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
I spoke with Mike W. yesterday about this topic..... He is almost ready to join the Taco......

I think the history is really important, and the Taco is the best place to get this all written down. I have never done the B&Y (I'm a good belayer, anybody need one?)but someday????

Mike's big question is this.

Who,on this list, carried the gear needed to do the last two pitches???

I guess John proclaimed, in the TM store, that if you rap off of the top of the third pitch, you haven't done the route.

Mike also says "it's pretty foolish to get on and spry about when, when how, etc.... if you climbed that, you have done something really special and that should be good enuf" ....

Maybe we can get him to "come up to the surface and bite" .... maybe a troll topic of.... The Hardest climb in TM??

Mike???


gk
EdBannister

Mountain climber
CA
Jan 6, 2010 - 06:19pm PT
Waugh ...
finally Mike Waugh gets a glimmer of the recognition he deserves...

5 laps here, perhaps all without a fall?

Mike is the strongest climber I have ever seen.
More horsepower to weight ratio than Wolfgang Gullich, Tony Yaniro, Finuco,
Randy Leavitt, Ron Carson, Brett Maurer...

Mike used to rate a route 5.9 because he thought that was how hard it was, not because he was trying to sandbag... even if it ended up rated 11c
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Jan 6, 2010 - 06:32pm PT
I did the 112th send in 93'! BITCHES!!!

Caylor


BWA HA hahaaa!! I've enjoyed this thread, but as usual, Hank steps in with that sense of humor and kills it!
saa

climber
not much of a
Jan 9, 2010 - 04:07pm PT
Just a completely random idea...

How about a climbing fest July 6 2010 in memoriam. That line would attract a
bunch of great climbers and a fundraiser might be workable. An audience might be big enough to have an impact. Or film it.

If one of you takes the lead, I offer to help organize.
David Bell

climber
SLC Area
Jan 18, 2010 - 12:16pm PT
Unless the route went undone in '88 Lance and I probably don't make the short list. I'm pretty sure we did in in '89 (Lance says either '89 or '90, for sure before the 1/4 inchers were replaced). I lead P1 & P3 (still break into a full body sweat remembering the move prior clipping the 3rd bolt on P3). Lance took a huge fall on P2 triing to down-climb out of trouble. Can't say for sure how far he fell but for those of you who know the route better than me Lance was above the 1st bolt and he hesitated too long climbing through a cruxy bit & took the ride. I realized that he was falling right into me, I was tied in short to the belay so I had no where to go so I just cowered into the wall. Lance missed me by an inch and when the rope came tight it caught me in the neck throwing me to the right (though faded the scar is still there 20 years later). Lance stopped below the flake section of P1, came back up and did the pitch....
aldude

climber
Monument Manor
Jan 18, 2010 - 04:05pm PT
Brother Cozzy - The last 5.8 pitch was done on the first ascent.
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2010 - 04:25am PT
the fourth ascent is just a mystery to me. i was pretty positive it was mike waugh and daryl nakahira, until a conversation with coz and he was so sure that griffith did the 4th, followed by coz, then moffat. coz said waugh did it after him, but maybe he did it before and after since waugh did it five times. rob oravetz did it in 85, leading every pitch with coz following, and rob says he did it just a few weeks after coz did it with elliot robinson. elliot says that was 85. waugh, and nakahira, in phone conversations with me did it it 84, just a bit after kurt and eddy did it, which is exactly the way i remembedr it. coz didn't write the dates down.
i should get back to tim wagner, griffith's partner, i think he said they did it in 84. i heard moffat did it in 85. maybe moffat could shed some light on this, i got to get o hold of him, moffat did it with bachar, so maybe he remembers the timeline. i am so confused by this.
how about a round table discussion of the timeline during the woodsen shindig coming up in march 19-21. coz, waugh, myself, we got up therwe and try and figure it all out. just an idea. coz, i know you know your timeline is fact, but how do you account for the fact that elliot says it was 85? shipoopoi
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 19, 2010 - 02:40pm PT
//This is how it went down. If Bacher was alive he would confirm.
1.Bacher Yerian
2.Shippopi
3.Kurt and Ed.
4. C Griffeth no falls witness by myself and Bacher
5.S Cosgrove no falls one week after CG. Witness by Bacher
6.Moffet
7.Maybe Waugh hi did years after me and Cristain.
Those are facts, I was there and lived through it. Bacher told me//



Coz, It's BACHAR. B_A_C_H_A_R.

Other than that, I'm sure those are the facts and I'm sure that you would know.

Arne
guyman

Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jan 19, 2010 - 02:50pm PT
Don't wish to speak for Mike, but here goes.

Mike has photos of him and Daryl climbing it, John took them and gave mike some copies to keep.

The date stamped on the back of the Kodak prints is "Aug 84" ....

Mike doesn't "do" computers, so we will try and get these scanned and posted on ST.

I hope we can raise up some more $$$$$$$ for TYRUS.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 19, 2010 - 02:55pm PT
If Moffet did it in '85, who else did it in '85? There can't be that many, right?
Therefore I'm thinking Todd Worsfold's August '85 ascent should be in the first 10, perhaps #7 or 8?
Fogarty

climber
BITD
Jan 19, 2010 - 04:33pm PT
(My post above)Sept 1985 first pitch only due to late start, (Darkness saved my LIFE?)
Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Jan 22, 2010 - 07:59pm PT
Not to wade too much into the morass here, but I talked to The Iron Monkey today. He told me he has done the B&Y 4 or 5 times. He first did it (probably) in late 1985 or early 1986 but doesn't remember for sure.. He said that he definitely did it before putting up Karma and the Southern Belle, and it was a sort of precursor to those routes.

He also said that it was his first ever knob climb in Tuolumne. He toproped Electric Africa 2 or 3 times to get the feel for the knobs, and then led the B&Y onsight. He also said he "never got pumped or worked on that route and it wasn' too bad"... Not sure if this makes the first ten ascents or not, but it doesn't seem like it at this point.

EDIT: Also, Dave is not sure who belayed him the first time he did the route, but thinks it was Al Dude, BUT the time Al belayed him for the Epperson photos was NOT the first time he did the route.. He did the Photo shoot because Greg wanted photos of someone doing it in the sun for the better light, photographically speaking
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jan 22, 2010 - 09:35pm PT
Thanks, Walter. The Southern Belle FA was in spring/1986 (and Karma in 7/1986), so that means Dave Schultz first did the Bachar-Yerian in late 1985, about the 10th ascent, unless Gullich and Zak got in before that.

Here's what I think the list looks like, based on what people have posted.
Bachar-Yerian timeline (2/6/2010 version)
Bachar-Yerian timeline (2/6/2010 version)
Credit: Steve Schneider & other folks posting on supertopo
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 23, 2010 - 12:11am PT
http://www.climbingaction.com/Bachar-Yerian.html
guyman

Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 5, 2010 - 01:59pm PT
Mike gave me this, John took the photo, on the back you can read the "datestamp"...... back in the days of film, remember.

Credit: guyman

and flip it over

Credit: guyman

just to get it right.
matty

Trad climber
los arbor
Feb 5, 2010 - 07:17pm PT
Sweet shot Guy, thx for posting. Wazoooooooo run baby run
Greg Epperson

climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 5, 2010 - 09:22pm PT
.. He did the Photo shoot because Greg wanted photos of someone doing it in the sun for the better light, photographically speaking

What I wanted was to photograph John doing his route, we had this arranged and at the last moment John backed out and offered up Dave, disappointing for me but I was still psyched to photograph the route. I've been sick to my stomach with fear (for the climber) twice photographing climbs, this was one of those times. The protection directly below Dave in this photo is a drapped knob, no girth hitch, Dave just pulled the shoulder sling off and set it on the knob. The first bolt is somewhere below.

Epi
Credit: Greg Epperson


Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Feb 6, 2010 - 12:46am PT
Outfukkingstanding!!!
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Feb 6, 2010 - 01:10am PT
Some fascinating history and stories here - thanks!

Does anyone know if John or Dave ever did the route a second time?
dustonian

climber
Foresta
Feb 6, 2010 - 01:38am PT
Best thread in a long time, thanks Shipoopois!

You in Chile??
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Feb 6, 2010 - 02:47am PT
Somewhere out there in Climber Land is a picture of John doing the first ascent of the B&Y. I know because it used to be on my wall in San Carlos. I made it from a slide that Dave lent me one time. I gave the slide and the picture back to Bachar eons ago after using it in an article on face climbing for the American Alpine Journal (AAJ), probably in 1981. In any case, AAC should have an internegative that they used for the printing.

This string knocked me on my head and made me remember. Think there's a scanned version of my article somewhere on this forum.
Randisi

Boulder climber
PA
Feb 6, 2010 - 09:05am PT
Who's Sabine Bachar (listed as witnessing the first ascent)?

Do you mean Brenda 'Naima' Bachar? Or is she some relative?


I remember showing up in the Meadows just after John and Dave finished it. Dave was really in quite an ecstatic state after three frightful days of belaying John, i.e. hoping he wouldn't fall into his lap.

As for the name, I remember Dave telling me something to this effect: "John said, Dave you really gotta get your name out there." So they named it after the tradition of the Chouinard/Herbert, etc.

Dave, when are you going to start posting? We'd all love to hear some first hand stories.

Randy
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Feb 6, 2010 - 12:48pm PT
from the American Alpine Journal 1982 article by Bruce Morris "Method and Madness; Evolution of Yosemite Face-Climbing Standards" page 41

This image appears on page 43:




it is possible that the original was lost in the fire that took much of John's collection of memorabilia.

A quote from that article:

"But despite the egotism and paranoia, it does seem quite possible to utilize more sophisticated means of protection placement while pre-serving an open-ended, summit-directed leading experience. The Bachar/Yerian route on Medlicott Dome in Tuolumne Meadows provides an example of such a productive crossover. What few protection bolts there are were placed by means of a hook, which is standard practice in Dresden where Bachar encountered it on a European visit. Such an arrangement allows the leader to move up confronting virgin territory while making independent decisions about length of run-out. This is a more adventurous tactic than beginning a route at the top and placing protection in advance on rappel. (Still, it should be kept in mind that preplacement, as long as the original number of bolts is never increased, does have the advantage of avoiding yo-yoing, sieging, and the drilling of bolt ladders.) Nevertheless, the bolt placements on the Bachar/Yerian, besides being very exciting in their own right, remove any doubt about the route being only an ambitious boulder problem. Bachar did exercise a fine critical judgment when placing protection, and the route now exists as an independent entity to be repeated by subsequent parties according to a pattern established by its first ascensionists."


[and kudos to the AAC for providing their archives to the community]
martygarrison

Trad climber
The Great North these days......
Feb 6, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
Steve, Lionel ?? from NZ did it the summer you put up Shippopi. He and I were climbing the day you put that route up. Remember this NZ dude you were climbing with, Lance or Guy or some such. He was built like a linebacker and took a lead fall which pulled you about ten feet up. He must of out weighed you by about a hundred pounds....
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Feb 6, 2010 - 05:17pm PT
Anders,

> Does anyone know if John or Dave ever did the route a second time?

Yes. See John's post from the longer thread:
------

bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
May 16, 2007 - 10:28am PT
I think I've done it three times - once with Yerian, once with Moffatt, and once with Dave Shultz (only the first three pitches though with Dave - we replaced the bolts on that one).
------


Here's a color original photo of the FA, from the longer thread:

photo by Brenda Lugo Bachar, posted by Walter

(sorry I messed up her name in my version of the list - it's corrected now)

The longer thread is:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/375380/Bachar-Yerrian
Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Feb 6, 2010 - 10:27pm PT
From the earlier thread referenced above by Clint:
One of my cherished e-mails from John was in response to some questions I had for him about the two original first ascent photos that I posted on this thread. He actually asked me if I was there the day they did the route and if I took my own photos. I assured him I was still living in Milwaukee and totally oblivious to the shenanigans that were being performed on the beautiful granite of Tuolumne Meadows. John wrote back and said "hey, I can't remember who was around. I was too busy being scared shitless up there"



tarek

climber
berkeley
Mar 11, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
bump
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 21, 2010 - 07:37pm PT
Just the thought of hanging off a skyhook laced around a fragile knob drilling a bolt gives me the jibblies.
matty

Trad climber
los arbor
Aug 8, 2010 - 12:43am PT
The most recent ascent of the B&Y was TODAY. Congragulations Andrew!!! Can't wait to hear the story.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 8, 2010 - 01:22am PT
Congratulations
to Andrew Rock and Jan McCollum.
Andrew onsighted the Bachar-Yerian today! Jan followed and was strong for the send.
here is Andrew Rock climbing the second pitch of the B&Y.
here is Andrew Rock climbing the second pitch of the B&Y.
Credit: pyro

Right now it's party time..he was smooth the whole way!
Stoney point crowd ready for the show!
Stoney point crowd ready for the show!
Credit: pyro

Cheers!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 15, 2010 - 12:07pm PT
BadasssssssssS!!!!!
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Aug 15, 2010 - 03:14pm PT
whoa, Jay wasn't kidding when he said 'show'
G_Gnome

Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
Aug 15, 2010 - 03:54pm PT
Not the way I would have scheduled the climb, but as soon as you left the ground you never heard another word from down there. The party that night was awesome though! There's something to be said for having all of your friends on hand.
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
Aug 15, 2010 - 04:37pm PT
So Jan - what's the scoop on the route and training for it? You were up there (in the meadows) a long time. Any good "road to the BY" tips?

Congratulations! Mike
G_Gnome

Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
Aug 15, 2010 - 07:20pm PT
Pimp all of the hard problems on Boulder 1 at Stoney Point to build crimp strength. Do lots and lots of continuous laps at some sport area like the Apes Wall at Malibu. Then work your way thru the tune-ups in Tuolumne.

The first day we started on the right at East Cottage and did all the routes working left thru Orange Plasma. We did Shipoopi the next day (not the 12 pitch). We went to Hammer Dome and did both pitches of Shadow of a Doubt and then Skeletor along with some gold slime stuff, and then after a rest day we went to the Medlicott ledge and did a bunch of routes there. That was more climbing in 6 days then I have done in a long time but it all paid off.

Oh, and the most important piece, find and train up a young rope gun!
J. Werlin

Social climber
Cedaredge, CO
Aug 15, 2010 - 11:02pm PT
Very nice update. Good go on the route!
smoores

Social climber
San Francisco
Aug 17, 2010 - 07:56pm PT
Does anyone have the history of female ascents of the B-Y? I've read through two full threads about it now (this one and the one Clint linked to), and not one mention of any women having sent, or even tried it. If I had to guess, I would imagine Lynn Hill did it at some point, but I have never seen that confirmed anywhere. So - female ascents?
EdBannister

Mountain climber
CA
Aug 17, 2010 - 08:51pm PT
the honeymoon couple with repeat....

and what about Mari?
G_Gnome

Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
Aug 17, 2010 - 08:51pm PT
As far as I know Lynn only did the first 2 pitches then bailed. I don't know of any other women how have done it. I know lots that could though.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 17, 2010 - 08:53pm PT
How many leg loops were on the first ascent?
EdBannister

Mountain climber
CA
Aug 18, 2010 - 07:11pm PT
hat's off and congrats to Jan.

I want to be in that good of shape when I get that old.
G_Gnome

Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
Aug 18, 2010 - 08:43pm PT
Old?! Old?! Who the hell are you calling old?!

I always thought of myself as well broken in, not old.

I tell you though, it really helped that I lost 12 pounds this year in preperation.
EdBannister

Mountain climber
CA
Aug 19, 2010 - 02:13pm PT
I knew that would get a laugh.
really Jan, outstanding!

i need to lose at least 25 more, maybe 30.

as far as the old goes, better defined by activity and willingness,
than chronology, you and Gary Valle are both about 27.
Todd Worsfold

Trad climber
Bay Area
Sep 28, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
A belated post, not in here much... Ken Ariza was basically correct, I dragged a buddy up the BYR in 1985. After a long "trip" from North Tahoe to Tuolumene the evening before, we hiked up to Medlicott to climb the 10+ corner to the left of BYR, but it was seeping wet. Didn't want to waste the day, so I suggested the BYR in a temporary moment of insanity (I forgot having read about it several years prior). Didn't look too bad on the topo...At the time, the (bolt-protected)first crux was rated 11a/b. I managed to send it in a couple of tries, then scared the sh#t out of myself getting to the first belay. My partner came up, wanting to rap, but I talked him into letting me give pitch two a try.. After reaching that first bolt, it just became a matter of perseverance and repetition. The rest was rated 10b/c at the time (By John and Dave I'm sure). What struck me most is that the hardest moves on each section were always to be found right before the clip; 25' or so out from the previous bolt! Apparently John would push it until it got a bit dicey and THEN place the bolt. What an icon and legend..RIP John...

For the record, Eagles Way was not my first El Cap Route and was done in 1987 or so. It was Peter Mayfield who recommended the route; Troy Johnson was kind enough to demonstrate how to place a "bashie" (which turned out to be invaluable info!)

TW

KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Sep 28, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
Get 'Em
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