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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 23, 2005 - 01:47pm PT
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I still have some of the old style U-Stem Camelots and
recently had it pointed out to me that they are no good
and that they were recalled at some point.
I have since gone over them with a magnifying glass and have indeed found hairline fractures in the body of some cams where the cable goes thru!
Sketch!!
Does anyone have any more info on this?
Can these cams be returned to BD for any kind of credit towards new cams? Should I just retire them?
Make big keychains?
Chuck them?
Suggestions?
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Sep 23, 2005 - 02:02pm PT
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If you plan on chucking, give them to me!
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2005 - 02:07pm PT
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Hey Jake...I'll keep you in mind..
but they may actually "bring you death"!
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Hans.H
Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
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Sep 23, 2005 - 02:08pm PT
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I've never heard that. I know they are a fair amount weaker than the next generation, but they are also pretty light (don't know comparing them to the new ones though). If you're super concerned you should right to BD
Ciao
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Good Morning!
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Sep 23, 2005 - 02:12pm PT
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Here's what the BD site says:
Limited Warranty:
For climbing and backcountry ski gear we warrant for one year from purchase date and only to the original retail buyer (Buyer) that our products (Products) are free from defects in material and workmanship. For headlamps our warranty is for three years. If Buyer discovers a covered defect, Buyer should deliver the Product to us at the address on the back cover. We will replace such Product free of charge. That is the extent of our liability under this Warranty and, upon expiration of the applicable warranty period, all such liability shall terminate.
Martin
Prescott College Equipment Warehouse
Edit: I just called BD and talked with Scott.
There has been no recall on any camalots of any style.
For more info on BD product standards go to
http://www.bdel.com/about/
Martin
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 23, 2005 - 02:24pm PT
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In addition, old Camalots were put out by Chounard (even sez so on the cams). BD does not asscociate themselves with those units.
:- k
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Sep 23, 2005 - 02:33pm PT
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When BD sirst went to single stem units they replaced a couple of my old black fours(broken triger bars) with the new units. I sent another one in (included in a larger return order from a shop) twice and they denied responsibility, but the third time they replaced it- maybe they were tired dealing with it every few months.
Persistence may win out, but I don't think they are obligated to do anything.
I have had at least five of the old style trigger bars crack or break and two of the newer (not newest) have had the ends break off, both in that case greens.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2005 - 02:36pm PT
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Here are a couple of pics of the cracks I have on a couple units...
you may want to take a closer look at any of the older units
hanging on your rack!
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Sep 23, 2005 - 02:40pm PT
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yup those look cracked.
I never heard about a recall on those though.
call BD and find out. if there was a recall they will tell you about it.
I know several people who still climb on those cams.
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Good Morning!
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Sep 23, 2005 - 03:34pm PT
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Thanks for the pics - we'll be going through all ours again...
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Shack
Big Wall climber
So. Cal.
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 23, 2005 - 04:36pm PT
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If I use the cracked cams for aid, does that automatically make it C2?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
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Sep 23, 2005 - 04:37pm PT
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pussies......
(If I owned a Camalot I'd go look at it though. Too modern for me)
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 23, 2005 - 10:47pm PT
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At first glance the photo looked like a casting mark, such as those found on the centerlines of some diecast objects.
So, I dug into my gear to have a look-see. The #1 Camalot I picked up looked fine, but I noticed that it appears to be machined aluminum alloy and not diecast. "Can that be?", I tought to myself. I picked up another #1 and it was okay. Then I hefted a #3 and there was an obvious crack! Just like the posted photo, but right on the center line and perfectly straight. WTF? That shouldn't be! I don't see any obvious stressors, nor have I taken any falls on it.
Looks like I will be sorting through all my old Camalots, and almost certainly retiring the lot.
I really want to know why these are cracking. Is this the first we are hearing of this problem? The only thing I had heard before was that they are substantially weaker than current versions. Looks like a very serious and highly dangerous product defect to me!
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 23, 2005 - 10:50pm PT
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On a side note, a trivia question. Does anyone know the story of how Camalots got their name? Who/where?
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 23, 2005 - 10:56pm PT
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Thanks for the heads up on this Shack, very interesting.
I don't have any of these old camlots, but I believe we have a bunch in the wall rescue packs. I'm gona go look for sure.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
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Sep 23, 2005 - 10:59pm PT
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I have been named as the official disposal site for all suspect Camalots™. Please include a $5.60 per cam EPA* fee with each cam to ensure proper handling.
Send all cams now.............. If you have a bunch of them, I might even come by to pick them up. Locker, gas up the Vespa. We're doing a road trip.
*(extreme puss alert)
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Russ Walling
Social climber
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
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Sep 23, 2005 - 11:00pm PT
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Trivia:
Who: Jonny Woodward
Where: Starbucks in Ventura
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 23, 2005 - 11:03pm PT
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Now if I find any cracks in the YOSAR rack I know you are responsible Russ.
You were yardin around on those units when you were here.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
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Sep 23, 2005 - 11:08pm PT
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Werner,
Before I was OTS, I sprayed all the Camalots with liquid nitrogen and quickly stuck them all in my ample ass crack. The temp differential cracked every one of them. Sorry... use a mild bleach solution before your inspection.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 23, 2005 - 11:10pm PT
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LoL, I knew it ...... the truth always comes out.
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Hans.H
Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
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Sep 24, 2005 - 04:44am PT
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The double stems were made both by CCE and BD
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Hans.H
Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
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Sep 24, 2005 - 04:44am PT
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The double stems were made both by CCE and BD
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Polar Sun
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 25, 2005 - 02:27pm PT
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One of my regular climbing partners is a mechanical engineer who systematically checks all his gear. Back in 2001 he noticed a fine crack in the cast housing of one of his medium sized Camalot u-stem units. He contacted Black Diamond and asked them if they knew about this phenomena. They said "yes", that they had conducted pull tests on such cracked units, and determined that the cracks had no impact on the rated strength of the units (10 kn, 2250 lbs, if I remember correctly). They still broke at the swage, which is the weakest point on the old u-stem units.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Sep 25, 2005 - 02:37pm PT
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Well after checking my ol' stuff I found 1st and 2nd generation U stem Camelots with cracks on them, 2,3 and 4. I'm not climbing on them anymore I don't care if BD says they'll still break at the swags before the cracks become a problem. That rope only has a little Knick in the sheath.....right.
Hey Russ do I have to come up with $16.80 and postage?
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Sep 25, 2005 - 02:48pm PT
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This was all talked about in an mid 90s climbing mag. BDs tester wrote something which I can't remember, but I do think it said that it wasn't their problem because it was Chounard.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Sep 26, 2005 - 10:00am PT
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I find it hard to believe that BD wouldn't have issued a warning to check and retire such pieces... I wouldn't expect them to replace 20 year old gear but at least spend the money to issue a warning. They're usually so good about stuff like this....
They didn't start cracked and I'd imagine that those cracks would eventually get larger since something's obviously under too much stress.
-Fear
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jan 15, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
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I just stumbled onto this thread by chance. I bought a set of Camalots, 1-4 when they first came out, mid 80s. Two developed the cracks, CCE had just been made aware of the problem when I called them. I returned my Camalots and got new ones. I was called by the factory, Alex Lowe? maybe, he told me that they had taken all the cracked units and tested them with no failures, and the guys at the company were climbing on them. The replacement units had plastic tubing where the cable went through the body, I assume to stop the cable from putting pressure on the body, my #4 eventually developed a hairline crack, not from falls either. They also told me that there would be no more exchanges.
I still use it, took a short fall on it last weekend, the hairline crack swelled open and then slammed shut, it helps reduce the forces of the fall.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 15, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
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They were well-known to fold, spindle, and mutilate.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Jan 15, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
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Yup, I've got a gold with a major crack in it all the way through in the same spot you indicate. It's not hairline and it's not a crack in the casting. I think it would be disastrous to take a fall on it.
I found it one day (6 years ago) when I decided to do a routine check of all my gear, textbook style. I cut the cable so it can't be used and now I show it to students as an example of what you might find when you inspect your gear.
Honestly, these are pretty old and I wasn't often using the one with the crack anyway. These are at least several generations earlier, not that new is always better but I'd just retire that series or inspect them regularly.
Arne
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vininja
Social climber
NJ
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Jan 16, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
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I remember this.
I think I had 2-3 with "The Crack".
I returned mine in the early nineties (1993). For got how the replacement deal went. I found another a year later and called for a replacement and got wholesale price on a new one.
This story is 20 years old.
I can see lots of current climbers that didn't know about this.
Surprised that the all might WURNER didn't know until 2005.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 16, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
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This story is 20 years old.
Those flingus things sucked back then and still suck now.
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ec
climber
ca
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Jan 16, 2013 - 09:24pm PT
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Definitely old news that I remember there being a notice about. Where were you? Like Polar Sun said, not to worry, it ain't breaking there. The problem was caused during the swedging process.
 ec
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