The Rock And Ice Club of Manchester- Whillans & Brown 1951

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Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 14, 2009 - 10:28pm PT
On September 26, 1951 a group of Manchester climbers formed The Rock And Ice Club. The founding members were; Nat Allen, Doug Belshaw, Joe Brown, Don Chapman, Don Cowan, Jack Gill, Pete Greenall, Ray Greenall, Ron Moseley, Merrick (Slim) Sorrell, Dick White and Don Whillans. Brown and Whillans were the rising stars and destined for greatness internationally.
Pretty hard to match the talent and influence that this group brought to British climbing scene and by example to American climbing.

First a profile and interview with Don Whillans from Mountain #20.









Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2009 - 12:44am PT
I scanned this material a long time ago. I will see if I can redo it a bit larger. I can read it and I am hardly a sharpshooter.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2009 - 07:57pm PT
Hardmen bump!
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Nov 22, 2009 - 12:18pm PT
hey there steve, say, thanks for sharing this bit of history...

:)
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2009 - 07:10pm PT
A classic shot of Whillans at the bivi on the Central Pillar of Freney.

Pate

Trad climber
The Lost Highway
Nov 26, 2009 - 10:24pm PT
Another absolute classic. How do you get anything done Steve? With your collection of mags I'd sit around and read until I was stoked to climb, go climb, then come back and do it all over again in a never ending cycle.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Nov 26, 2009 - 11:44pm PT
Thanks Stevie. The text scans are readable too; not an easy feat!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2009 - 12:09am PT
Mountain really liked to squeeze a lot into those issues! I still need to sort out how to expand the output more easily.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2009 - 12:25am PT
That does the trick! Thanks, Lance.
Dodo

Trad climber
Spain/UK
Nov 27, 2009 - 04:50am PT
I climbed with three of them, Nat Allen was one of my childrens godfather, sadly he died of cancer a few years back, Don sadly is also dead of natural causes, the star moment was him turning up at my wedding on a 1000cc motorbike and whisking my wife off, still in her bridal gown, for a burn up round the Peak.
Joe is still climbing though walking is hard, if you can get him to the crag he still climbs 5b.
duncan

climber
London, UK
Nov 27, 2009 - 08:50am PT
The new guide to the gritstone crags of the western peak district has a great picture of the young Whillans in action. It makes the point well that whilst the stereotypical image is of the paunchy beer-swilling pugilist he was a superb rock-climber in his youth.

Can't link directly to the picture but it is in a pdf. sample chapter here.
Gobee

Trad climber
Los Angeles
Nov 27, 2009 - 09:01am PT
Use the zoom button!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2009 - 04:54pm PT
Duncan- How many FA's on gritstone between Whillans and Brown, roughly?
Pate

Trad climber
The Lost Highway
Nov 28, 2009 - 11:43pm PT
bump for chain smoking motorcycle riding anglo-climbers.
duncan

climber
London, UK
Nov 29, 2009 - 04:29am PT
How many Brown/Whillans grit routes? An obvious question when you think about it but I've never seen a number quoted. You'd think Wikipedia would have a list. These guys climbed all the Stafordshire Brown/Whillans routes in a day recently which usefully gives us a start of 31 routes.

I would guess around 150 between them, and the great proportion of these would be Joe's. Not a large number but what is remarkable is how good they all are. They were just interested in the plums and picked them. For the 5.8-5.10+ trad. leader they are almost a guarantee of quality (as long as you don't mind a bit of a scrap occasionally).

Doing all the Brown/Whillans grit routes would be a nice challenge for someone. Now where are my guidebooks...
Alan Rubin

climber
Amherst,MA.
Nov 30, 2009 - 09:37am PT
Mr. Grossman, you are a dangerous man!!!!, especially for someone of my proclivities. I was homebound for part of the weekend, so I took your query to Duncan as a challenge. I came up with a far from complete total of 128 done by one or the other or both. Since I used several sources there may be some double counting of routes, but I'm also missing complete material on several areas where I know they were very active. As Duncan mentions Brown has by far the larger number of routes, though those that Whillans did on his own all have a particular "stamp" that clearly IDs them as his. While the total number isn't high compared to some later grit activists, it is most important to look at them in context. They were all put up betwen 1947-and '62 or '63, with the vast majority in the early-mid-'50s. During much of that period they only had, at most, a day and a 1/2 off from work a week, they had to travel out to the crags by bus or train followed by often substantial walks and reverse on the Sun. to get home in time for work, giving little actual time on the rock.And, with the Britiah climate, this explains why so many of their routes were climbed in foul conditions. Many of these routes were at or near the upper limit of the day, and a good number actually advanced the limit--at least in Great Britain.(The fact that equally hard or harder routes may have been done decades earlier in Dresden, etc was effectively irrelevant, since neither they nor anyone else in the British climbing community was even aware at the time that such routes existed). These routes were mostly climbed either in nailed boots or cheap tennis sneakers, with minimal and primitive protection possibilities, if any. Even more impressive, during much of this time period, and facing the same constraints(though later transport was helped by motorcycles)they were also climbing and putting up standard setting new routes throughout Britain from Cornwall in the far west to Scotland in the north, but particularly in North Wales. They also somehow found the time to do the same in the Alps, the Himilaya and the Andes. Pretty amazing for a couple of guys who still had to make a living at manual labor, since sponsorship options back then were non-existent.Hardmen for sure.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2009 - 10:24am PT
Al- Thanks for the research and history. One has to think that having the R&I Club structure enhanced their productivity by putting climbing and climbing objectives in the fore on a regular basis. Without delving into their biographies, the reason that I centered this thread on the club itself is to learn more about the other members and the support that Whillans and Brown may have received financially and logistically from the organization and its connections in the larger british climbing community.

Fritz

Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
Nov 30, 2009 - 11:27am PT
Thanks al for the interesting postups. If you want way more Whillans: his bio "The Villain" is a great read.
bolivian

Social climber
Sheffield
Dec 27, 2009 - 05:06pm PT
Hi

Does anyone know the current whereabouts of Jack Gill. I'd like to get in touch with him.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 25, 2010 - 10:06pm PT
Bump for bolivian!
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Sep 25, 2010 - 10:42pm PT
Stevie Grossman, I think it is time you write up a macro to bump all your threads in one fell swoop whenever necessary, dontcha think? Then hack a button on to Supertopo. This hunting and pecking around must be lengthy and tedious every day. Imagine a button up on the top of the page along with Home, Climbing Areas, Climbing Routes, Guidebooks, Free Topos, Photos, Gear and Forums that was "Grossman" or "bumpage"--- a button any of us could click on to get totally bumped up on all the stuff as it flushes through page 2,3,4,5,6 and so forth. Love it.

Then came the Grossman quickie quizzes every Monday morning....

Reminder Pilgrims: Read the Jim Perrin biography of Whillans; its extremely good!
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Sep 25, 2010 - 10:57pm PT
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 25, 2010 - 11:19pm PT
Please sponsor a promising Bump...with assistance it could become a grand thread...someday!

Nice Eiger shot!
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Sep 25, 2010 - 11:23pm PT
By the way Pilgrims. Jim Herrington just had a photoshoot with Bonnington. I haven't seen anything from it yet but I am curious. JH was over there also photographing Doug Scott, apparently.

What a class difference in that shot just above!
BooDawg

Social climber
Polynesian Paralysis
Sep 26, 2010 - 04:48am PT
Thanks Alan Rubin (and Peter) for putting the working class context of Whillans' and Brown's climbs into proper perspective.

Was it Tom Patey who wrote these lyrics that I once heard Bugs McKeith sing around a campfire in C4?

I'm a climber; I'm a climber from Manchester way.
I get's all me pleasures the rock-climbing way.
I may be a work-slave on Monday,
But I am a free man on Sunday.

Hey Steve, how about a post about Tom Patey (One Man's Mountain) and perhaps some of the songs that reflected the climbing in the UK?
cleggy

Trad climber
Derby, UK
Sep 26, 2010 - 07:44am PT
"I'm a climber; I'm a climber from Manchester way" - based on The Manchester Rambler by Ewan MacColl, father of Kirsty.
Also, Joe Brown, The Human Fly, 80 today.
Proud, as they say
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2010 - 10:53am PT
Twenty little fingers and twenty little toes...Patey was an honorary R & I member, I bet!
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Sep 26, 2010 - 12:18pm PT
Happy Birthday to Joe!

When I spent several weeks in Britain the summer of 1977 with RMuir and Gib L., Al Harris asked if we wanted to go climbing with Joe Brown. Of course, we had read the "The Hard Years," and we had done Cenotaph Corner on our first day in Wales. So, we jumped at the chance to climb with a bona fide climbing legend. In Britain, Joe was a celebrity and made a good living from climbing.

Al arranged a sea cliff outing which I previously described in this thread:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=404147&msg=404289#msg404289

We piled into Brown's car to head over from Al's house to Holyhead. As I recall, the car was a luxury sedan of some sort, not a climber's car at all. Brown had recently received an OBE or a knighthood, or something like that, and had attended a ceremony where the Queen of England had bestowed the award.

As he drove, Joe related to us in the back seat the story of his meeting with the Queen. When one is introduced to the monarch, there are apparently protocols for addressing her, "Your Highness" etc.

When Brown was introduced, he gave the Queen a friendly,

"How do? "

His wife hissed at him afterwards,

"You don't say "How do" to the Queen!"
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2010 - 12:29pm PT
Too funny, Ricky!

One of my favorite shots of Tom and Joe.


John Cleare photo.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2011 - 09:08pm PT
I knew that I would eventually strike gold and when I cracked open a copy of Welsh Rock, Trevor Jones and Geoff Milburn's superb 1986 historical survey, bingo! This is the best history involving Brown and Whillans that I have come across. The Baron and the Villain!









































































Brunosafari

Boulder climber
OR
Jul 15, 2011 - 11:27am PT
Thanks Steve Grossman, I can't wait to read through this! And the type has greater clarity than past historical postings-- my peepers appreciate whatever upgrade you might have installed. -Bruce
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jul 15, 2011 - 11:39am PT
Damn you Mr Grossman, I have work to do!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 15, 2011 - 11:50am PT
The Girdle Traverse was our inspiration when we (Givler,Marts,and sundry followers)
put up The Maidenform Girdle Traverse at Castle Rock in Leavenworth.
To further the experience only bad British accents were allowed.
Some of the Mountaineers present were not amused.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2011 - 12:34pm PT
The resolution issues went away with my concern about file size quite a while ago...
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jul 15, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
I can't believe It's a Girdle in JT had a similar inspiration.
Alan Rubin

climber
Amherst,MA.
Jul 15, 2011 - 04:26pm PT
There are a fair number of other books and articles that have good insights into and anecdotes about Brown, Whillans, and the Rock and Ice. Once of the best is Rope Boy by Dennis Gray, who was, as the title suggests, an "apprentice" with the Rock and Ice during their glory years, and is a good story-teller as well. Rock Climbers in Action in Snowdonia by Tony Smythe and John Cleare also contains some good Rock and Ice stories as well as a wonderful collection of black and white photos by Cleare. Both these books are out-of-print, though potentially findable on Amazon or in used book stores. Unfortunately I don't have the capability or the ability to scan them myself. Maybe Steve or someone else so able will do the honors.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2011 - 04:33pm PT
Regretably, those titles aren't in my holdings at present nor is The Black Cliff. Others lurk who may get inspired to add to this thread. Welsh Rock was only a printing of 500 copies (according to one listing) so I figured that most folks hadn't seen it before. Great book!
frog-e

Trad climber
Imperial Beach California
Jul 15, 2011 - 04:54pm PT
Cool stuff Steve!
O.D.

Trad climber
LA LA Land
Jul 15, 2011 - 05:11pm PT
Brown, Whillans, and their close compatriots were often referred to as the original Hard Men, and for good reason. Thanks, Steve, for refreshing our memories. Makes me a little nostalgic for my old Whillans Harness...well...almost -- it was terribly uncomfortable by today's standards, but a huge improvement over a web swami, or worse, a coiled goldline swami.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2011 - 05:15pm PT
The Family Jewels will appreciate the forebearence...LOL
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 15, 2011 - 06:30pm PT
Check out the picture in the beginning of this post and then consider that Whillans was only 52 when he died- a hard 52. All the boozing and smoking along with a pub diet certainly took there toll.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2011 - 01:00am PT
The life lived half as long, burns twice as bright...

I think that some people know when their ride is going to be short.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 16, 2011 - 08:59am PT
Steve, I have a different take. The Post War (WW2) years were difficult in England. When I went there in the early 70's unemployment was rampant and there was an almost nihilistic attitude within the climbing community. Most climbers were living on the dole and a "damn tomorrow," self destructive life style was in full swing. Prominence was achieved by being able to climb hard with a massive hangover. Whillans could certainly hold his own in that regard.
rick d

climber
ol pueblo, az
Jul 16, 2011 - 09:38am PT
I am a sick man and own:
The Black Cliff
Welsh Rock
Cumbrian Rock

along with Rope Boy and have since loaned out my copy of Tight Rope! (one of the best books on British Climbing)
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2011 - 12:06pm PT
Scan a few favorite passages...
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jul 16, 2011 - 01:28pm PT
Thanks, Steve! Quite a lot of "Welsh Rock" naturally paralleled or paraphrased what was in The Black Cliff, of which I have a copy, sans dust jacket. There's a few new stories and photos, but not a lot of surprises.

Jim Perrin's book "The Villain" has quite a lot about the sociology of the Rock and Ice members. Most seem to have been a step or two above 'real' working class, although to us North Americans the distinctions are rather fine.

I climbed in England and Wales in 1976 and 1980, and like everyone osmotically absorbed each issue of Mountain as it appeared. And of course got to know some British climbers, both there, in Yosemite, and as a few started to become active in Squamish in the later 1970s. To outsiders, the British social system is a bit opaque. Still, the years after the war when the Rock and Ice got their start were the rationing years, the time of the collapse of their empire, and of the first real Labour government. The war had a lot to do with making Britain a bit more egalitarian, and giving people like the R & I a chance.

A lot of the hard-drinking, on the dole climbers were anything but working class, and many were indeed educated. It was a bit like Camp 4 in the 1970s - lots of climbers came through and for a while adopted the dirtbag lifestyle, but most eventually went home to school, jobs, families, etc. Not quite an act, but neither for most was it a lifestyle.

It was unfortunate the parts of Britain with the better climbing were also those with some of weakest economies in the 1970s, e.g. north Wales and the Peak District. The country had serious problems, solved either by Margaret Thatcher (if you like fantasy and ideology) or oil and gas revenue as it came onstream (the reality). But most British climbers, even in the 1970s, were ordinary middle class young people, certainly with significant other elements, but less than we might like to believe.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2011 - 03:34pm PT
Jim- I hear what you are saying along the lines of lethal habits and mentality but wouldn't the greater shame have been having a whole lot less fun and then dying at the same age...The Elysian Fields isn't Where Whillans Went!

Grovehill

Trad climber
UK
Jul 17, 2011 - 06:54am PT
Hi Steve , are you aware of the Alpha Club whose members did a lot of early repeats of the Brown/Whillians routes.

Al Parker has published a history of the club - "Alpha Males" which sits well along side The Hard Years, The Villian,The Black Cliff and Welsh Rock

http://tohatchacrow.blogspot.com/2011/04/review-steve-dean-on-alpha-males-story.html

http://www.thebmc.co.uk/News.aspx?id=4148
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2011 - 12:27am PT
First I've heard of the Alpha Club!

Thanks for the links.

I am well into The Villain right now and have a bad case of the Gritstone jones!
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Nov 19, 2011 - 12:36am PT
Is there any gritstone-like rock in the US? That is, really hard sandstone, as in the Peak?
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2011 - 12:02pm PT
I have heard of "gritstone" in the US but we would have heard a lot more if it held a candle to the celebrated british variety.
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Nov 19, 2011 - 12:26pm PT
MH, some of the sandstone crags along the Appalachians and adjacent ridges are quite hard. Seneca, New River, and the Gunks are examples of some of these sandstones. Near Gettysburg, Pennsylvania are some crags that seem to have even harder sandstone than the other areas.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Nov 19, 2011 - 12:34pm PT
When does sandstone make the transition to being quartzite, or other minerals? Paging Minerals!
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Nov 19, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
I think some degree of metamorphic pressure would be the difference.

I have heard Devils Lake in Wisconsin is a quartzite.
Alan Rubin

climber
Amherst,MA.
Nov 21, 2011 - 11:16am PT
The main crags at Devil's Lake are definitely quartzite--no mistaking that square-cut, incredibly slick stone for sandstone---though there are a few sandstone buttresses on the "fringes". At Rock Springs on the other end of the Baraboo Hills (the range that includes Devil's Lake)there is a very clear contact zone where the quartzite overlays the sandstone so that some routes (if the place is still accessible for climbing) start with a few moves on frictiony, rounded sandstone before changing, in the space of a move, to slippery, sharp-edged quartzite. As far as the "is there gritstone in the US" question, it is a hard one to answer since there is even variation in the nature of the rock between some of the various gritstone crags in the UK. Basically grit is a rough-textured, very dense form of sandstone often with large "pebbles" embedded in the matrix. It is quite different from the sandstone in places like the 4 Corners, Eldo (though the latter is a dense sandstone with protrusions), the New, the Red, etc. The stone in some of the Tennessee and Alabama crags is closer but still not quite the same. The closest I've climbed on in the US is in places such as northwestern W. Va. (Coopers Rocks---the rock near Gettysburg is probably pretty much the same) and southern Ill. (Jackson Falls)--though friends from the UK still say, "not grit"!!!!!
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Nov 21, 2011 - 11:21am PT
Its funny about climbing in Britian, and Wales in general. I've been over to England about 15 trips on business, and on the weekend I try to dash out to Wales and Snowdonia to go climbing at Cloggy and surrounding. Of all those trips, there was 1 weekend, just one, where it was climbable. It was either raining, or had been raining and everything was still wet and slick. Kudos to the Brits for their persistence, its like living in Oregon!
duncan

climber
London, UK
Nov 21, 2011 - 12:10pm PT
The Post War (WW2) years were difficult in England. When I went there in the early 70's unemployment was rampant and there was an almost nihilistic attitude within the climbing community. Most climbers were living on the dole and a "damn tomorrow," self destructive life style was in full swing.

The same could be said of the 1980s Thatcher years - see Johnny Dawes' wonderful "Full of Myself" - or ask any of the expat. Brits still living in Boulder who were refugees from that era. No surprise that this was the last time UK climbing had any serious pretensions by international standards. No surprise either that with youth unemployment at 46%, Spain is currently the world centre for hard rockclimbing.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Nov 23, 2011 - 07:24pm PT
Back in the 50s I climbed with a British climber who told me the only place he had found gritstone in the US was somewhere up around Duluth or International Falls. Never went there myself.
Randisi

Boulder climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Nov 23, 2011 - 08:16pm PT
Hi, John.

Coopers Rocks in West Virginia near Morgantown is gritstone. There are also scattered areas of it in Southwestern Pennsylvania.

I've bouldered on it. It's quite good. But I've never been climbing in England, so I can't make any comparisons.
CaNewt

Mountain climber
Davis, CA
Nov 24, 2011 - 12:46am PT
I was fortunate enough to climb a few times with Don. We met in 1976 on a British and one American expedition to Denali. The "A" team did the an alpine ascent ot the Cassin Ridge while four of us did the West Rib alpine style (It was still a bit of a novelty then.)

I remember Don quizing one of our party at Kahiltna International as we packet for a trudge up the glacier. "Are you taking an extra sweater?" When the reply was "Yes" Don pulled a sweater our of his pack and tossed it aside with the statement, "Guess I don't need this then"

We began that trudge with us on skis and Don walking with the comment,"Naught going faster than I can go with my own two feet!" Perhaps that was precient as we lost John Howard skiing into a crevasse on the Columbia Icefield many years later.

Don had a great sense of the mountains, of course. I really learned to appreciate his assessment of what a safe campsite was (and, here I was just trying to find the best view.)

Some will remember an earlier post on here how at the end of that trip we all wandered straight in to the Fairview Inn and ended up all being arrested the next day. I need to tell story some day.

I also got to climb Mt Aspiring in New Zealand with Don and my wife Anne Schneider. Nice trip to the hut and then up to the summit. But, a big storm moved in as we started back to the valley, not untypical in NZ. Dry walls were now curtains of water. We climbed down what has been an easy hike up a bit gripped with gallons of water running down my sleeves through my pants and into my boots.

We had to cross a stream to the warmth and safety of Geoff Wayatt's hut. I was cold and a bit stumped, this stream was a now a raging river. Don really did lead the way. Impressive. A hard man and a survivor.

This trip epitomized for me another of my favorite Whillans quotes,"Don't mind fighting my way out of it, but can't see fighting my way into it."

Anne and I connected with Don once more in Wales and the Lakes to do a few routes. Clearly a bit heavy, but still what a power and a joy to watch. Drinking beer with Don after a day on the rocks is a special memory

Lots of stories of Don's punch ups and such. Perhaps, I was a bit fortunate to know him when he had mellowed just a we bit.

How many remember when he spoke to the Sierra Nevada section annual dinner at the Brazilian Room in Tilden park above Berkeley when we were just restarting them?

Steve, thanks for this thread. Brings back great memories.

Cheers,
CA Newt
jogill

climber
Colorado
Nov 24, 2011 - 02:11pm PT
I had a nice conversation with Joe Brown several years ago. He lamented the fact that Don had done himself in with his lifestyle - Brown had tried to get him to change. I first heard of Joe back in the mid 1950s and have had a great respect for him ever since.In our conversation he seemed a charming, intelligent fellow.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2011 - 03:34pm PT
CA Newt- Stories like yours are the reason that I put time into posting historical material so thank you!

Tom Frost told me a telling tale from the 1970 Annapurna South Face trip. Don had forgotten his Swiss army knife and made that known to the rest of the team. Oddly, his mates simply resigned themselves to the reality that he was going to pinch one of theirs and that was that. It simply wasn't worth crossing him over it.

I dearly hope that I get the opportunity to sit down with and interview Joe Brown in the near future. Hopefully, The Frost book will give me an reason to attend the Kendall festival and seek him out.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 16, 2012 - 01:21pm PT
Bump for Paul Ross who got his start around these estimable gents and is still going strong!
marty(r)

climber
beneath the valley of ultravegans
Sep 16, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
What was the linkage--if any--between Whillans and Brown and the later partnership of Tasker and Boardman? My sense of history on that side of the pond is a kind of sketchy, but Tasker's account of the 1976 ascent of Changabang is a thing of (intense) beauty.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
A fine fellow named Stanley Norrie sent me this excellent Joe Brown interview which appeared in Rocksport magazine in 1968. First of several that he sent.









Thanks for sharing this with us Stanley!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
The 1972 Rocksport interview of the other half of the Dynamic Duo, Don Whillans.

















Thanks again Stanley!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
High Quality Bump...
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Topic Author's Reply - May 12, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
Fascinating that Cenotaph almost got Joe...
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