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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 13, 2009 - 12:48am PT
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Most of you know I ruptured my achilles tendon on Zodiac a bit over a month ago. The story is linked on the trip report tab and online at
http://www.yosemiteclimber.com/Zodiacthreelegs.html
Here's some trippy Ju Ju
First, an astrologer in India predicted an ankle or shoulder injury around this time of this year for me as far back as two years ago. Believe me, I didn't 'will' or 'expect' some Alien popping to fulfill his prediction. Still, it was trippy because this guy knew extremely detailed items from my life and the life of my girlfriend. One example (he didn't even have my girlfriend's legal name) he told her she had 8 nieces and nephews. She said, "sorry but there are only 7" He said. "one died" She got pale "Yup, you're right, forgot about the one that died" Stuff not available via the net or any source. Who knows how such a thing really works but there's a lot more out there than we hear about everyday.
Second, my girlfriend had been nervous about me going on this El Cap Climb. She had been having repeated dreams in which I died. The same or a similar dream, over and over. The weird thing was that in the dream, people were gathering for my memorial in a stone house surrounded by mountains and John Bachar was always in the dream, comforting her and telling her the real scoop about how our ideas about death were wrong and what things were really like.
When I was getting ready to be the preacher for Brutus of Wyde's memorial, I posted an image of the Stonehouse outside Lone Pine where his memorial would take place. I'd never been there myself.
She saw the picture and said "That's the place in my dreams! Remember I said it was a stonehouse without actual glass in the windows or doors in the doorways?"
Trippy stuff.
Then I paid tribute to Brutus at the stonehouse and continued on to Burning Man. When I was there, I remembered that it was a tradition to honor fallen friends by writing their names inside the "Temple" at Burning Man which would be burned at the end of the festival. I decided to make a point of writing the names of my friends Brutus and John inside the temple walls. The funny thing was, when I was writing their names on the wood, I wrote "Brutus" and was trying to write "Bachar" but next wrote "baba" by mistake, almost automatically. It gave me a chill!
There's been a couple strange coinkydinks since then as well.
So I'm not sure why I'm writing this stuff. Maybe ya'll have some spooky stories. Maybe I dodged a bullet and only jacked my ankle.
But just in case there's more to the story, if anything were to happen to me, I just want to say that I've had a fantastic life, I don't hold a hard feeling against anyone in this world, and I'm grateful for all the blessings for life from my friends, family and everybody.
But really, I feel like I'm going to be an old man someday, it's just been a trippy year
Peace
Karl
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 13, 2009 - 12:58am PT
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Karl, you're a good man. What do you have to fear of dying?
You're not gonna die as far as I can tell, but sh#t happens. You seem way too 'needed' here to be allowed passage.
That said, maybe someone is talking to you. I'm not sure the message, but it seems clear that 'the Gods have spoken' to you. Maybe you're misinterpreting the message. Or maybe you need a massage. I dunno....
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
Will know soon
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Nov 13, 2009 - 12:59am PT
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Karl,
I have found that it is not when you expect something that it happens.
Things trippy happen when you usually have no clue, idea or warning.
And most often those things do not happen to you.
Being a jesus follower I have learned much, but leave the difficulties and end results up to him. Peace Always, lynne
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 13, 2009 - 01:00am PT
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Trippy juju? O.K. here's some. I witnessed some spontaneous bleeding from a persons hand last week. She said her hands and face were really hot and the blood started to trickle out of a finger and part of her palm. No cuts. I saw it very close up. She was a little freaked and I told her not to worry, that she has the juju.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 13, 2009 - 01:06am PT
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I'm waiting for nature, Anders, et al., to start saying you need more Omega 3's and B-12.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 13, 2009 - 01:12am PT
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BTW, heal up, Karl!!!
Also take solice in the company of your girlfriend. Many people have no such love.
You know this though....
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Nov 13, 2009 - 01:13am PT
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Karl!
Be thinking about what Lynne said!
Nothing can go down without first getting the green light from Him.
We will keep you covered, with prayer.
Peace and Love Bro!
Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
TheTrip.
BTW loved your tr on the Zodiac.
U da Man Baba!!!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 01:28am PT
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Got no worries about death. If it comes, I'm ready as could be.
If it doesn't, I'm ready to enjoy the adventure of this world and serve the cause of peace and love everywhere to the extent I'm able.
I don't believe in "accidents" but also think that even if there is a "reason" for everything, it's not necessarily a simple or rational reason.
Not resisting this injury either. I'm taking the time to do some writing that I've been neglecting (yet again supertopo being a favorite vice that I'm trying to keep a reasonable but not wasteful part of my time> Love Ya'll too much!)
Just thought I'd share to see what comes up.
Brutus's passing had it's own trippy forshadowing (drawings and poems in his climbing Journal many years earlier, and calling me on the phone claiming to be the "angel of death" shortly before his accident)
I've always had a strong inner feeling of living a long time but perhaps I've been "reassigned" More likely is the "Shamanic Death" where life as we lived it changes dramatically within and without and we embark on a new chapter of our existence. I feel that coming for sure.
Peace
karl
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 13, 2009 - 01:40am PT
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Tempy, like achilles...
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billygoat
climber
cruzville
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Nov 13, 2009 - 01:45am PT
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...Achilles is in your alleyway,
He don't want me here,
He does brag.
He's pointing to the sky
And he's hungry, like a man in drag.
How come you get someone like him to be your guard?
You know I want your lovin',
Honey, but you're so hard.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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Nov 13, 2009 - 01:47am PT
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I've never yet said anything about vitamins or diet on SuperTopo, except for admitting to a liking for chocolate. Why would I start now?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 13, 2009 - 02:10am PT
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One time, when we were Climbing Aquarius, I was calmly belaying and looking at my right hand which was discolored and swollen the same size from mid forearm to my knuckles from a cat bite the night before we left on the trip, and wondering if I had grip strength effective enough to catch a fall, When the feeling hit me; "The Colonel is gonna take a big one." Immediately i switched the belay to my left hand. No sooner had I done that than said Colonel took a ride!
I mentioned it to him afterward and he calmly said, " Any time you get those feelings, feel free to act on 'em!"
The next five el cap routes, every time Frank would get scared on lead, he would serenely ask me if I was getting "those feelings."......
When he took a fifty footer a few years later, on 'scalito I felt no prescience, whatsoever. I was processing a coffee jones....
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 13, 2009 - 02:22am PT
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It's like the Universe saying, "hello."
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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Nov 13, 2009 - 02:38am PT
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It's all out there, one just needs to be tuned in that's all...
too many distractions for the signals most often...
and this;
"...But just in case there's more to the story, if anything were to happen to me, I just want to say that I've had a fantastic life, I don't hold a hard feeling against anyone in this world, and I'm grateful for all the blessings for life from my friends, family and everybody..."
Karl, we should all be so lucky to be able to say that.
oh, and by the way, "Got no worries about death. If it comes, I'm ready as could be."
Not if, but when...
but then,
so too will I
This is all a gift.
Cheers,
DD
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 02:48am PT
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Yeah Bro
A gift indeed.
Peace
karl
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Nov 13, 2009 - 02:51am PT
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Well, here goes.
This is pretty personal btw.
Shortly after I turned thirteen, some I know say, "I got a word from the Lord". And I know His voice. This is very uncommon this day and age btw.
It has in fifty years only happened, perhaps, a half dozen times to me.
My older cousin who was 19 had a little baby, less than a year old. I heard one morning Him say that the baby was going to die on Friday.
I was filled with immediate grief, a very deep overwhelming sadness. For I had baby sat and held this little child in my arms, looked in its joyous little eyes.
It was on a Tuesday morning that He told me. I knew that there was nothing that anyone could do, for the He had spoken.
It was a heavy weight to carry at thirteen years old. I just told my mother that I was sick. Didn't eat a thing for four days. I was in deep mourning. I don't have the words to describe it. I didn't pray for the Lord to spare her baby. He had spoken. I simply mourned.
I didn't leave my room untel early Saturday morning about 7 AM. When I heard a knock at the door. I knew who it was. I never forget the loud wail that came from my aunt as my father opened the door. For me I could finaly begin to end the grieving process.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 03:06am PT
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Thanks for sharing.
Actually, I think these spiritual experiences are just as common or more than they ever were. It's a myth that people had divine experiences thousands of years ago but not today.
Most of us just don't beat others over the head with the miraculous. It often backfires.
I've seen and experienced a great deal that I only share when the time, person and place are right. Everybody has to have the right to live in their own bubble
peace
karl
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
climber
. . . not !
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Nov 13, 2009 - 03:24am PT
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Erie .
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Nov 13, 2009 - 03:32am PT
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Irie?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Nov 13, 2009 - 03:36am PT
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hey there karl, say....
as one who spends hours on end, praying to the good lord--well, when i aint working of course... ;)
i can add this... though i won't add too much more, as many stories (all true) don't always mean much to others, unless they themselvee are going through similar things at the moment, and get encouragment from the stories, as such, etc...
but i can say this:
many things i "set on the shelf", so to speak (things similar to heavy life or death type things, as there is always a bit more behind the scense, than the full picture, shared, from a dream, or in a very impressive thought)..... (things such as your girlfriend seeing the stone house, etc)...
so then, i mainly concentrate here, with this: i take and use the daily info and impressions that get in my heart (as i get them, while specifically asking, when in prayer), and give what is to be shared that is meant for others, each as in different portions and about different things, etc, depending on their life-needs of said day, or according to their long-range problems that they request help with...
whether they live nearby or far-off, i always have trustworthy help, through what i get in prayer:
stuff that i can share as help and council for them (or myself) which gives success in our dealings with others, our job, or their troubles and how to solve, overcome, or get through their hard-trails, etc...
on occasions, the REALY heavy stuff, will come into play, if the good lord sees fit, and then it is more easily understood, and more easy to share, by that time... then, i "pull it off the ol' shelf" ...
kind of like the old song, i reckon:
"we'll understand it better, by and by..." ;)
not sure if this helps or not... but just adding to the ol' pot...
;)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 03:42am PT
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Funny thing is, a lot of folks have certain but unexplainable experiences but sort of go numb of them in considering their world view.
Example. My dad saw a ghost as a kid, and described it to one of his relatives. She showed him a picture of a departed relative he had never met and it was a total match.
Years later, his mom experienced a knocking on her bedroom door which she intuitively grasped was the spirit of a relative who she felt must have died. Thing is, this relative wasn't sick and lived 100 miles away. She called the other city to ask about him but he had just killed himself.
Still, when questioned, my dad would profess to believe that there was nothing after death. When you're dead, that's it.
He's got old now and doesn't believe death is the end anymore. He's still not religious or spiritual in any conscious way whatsoever, but just "knows" from within that it's not the end. He's feeling his own death coming (he's 89) and not afraid.
What can I say. We are surrounded by mystery
peace
karl
edit: I know what you're saying NeeBee.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Nov 13, 2009 - 04:43am PT
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Karl!
As far as thousands of years ago, according to the Good Book they were rare then too. I was referring to the 'Christian community'not the world in general. They have always been rare in the Church. I just said I may have had 6-7 in over 50yrs,of a different nature. And that's allot among the people I associate with, and MANY in the 'Church' are negative towards me telling/them hearing the story I would say MOST. I don't have a clue why.
Since the topic was advertised here I thought I would be a little more excepted. But here I am trying to defend myself...go figure.
You are absolutely right concerning the world and agree. It being more common now than 1,000 yrs ago.
I excepted what you had to say and I never refer to it, as many times as hear people talk about "gypsies' and 'fortune tellers' and spontaneous writings and dreams, yogis, gurus etc. as 'beating over the head with the miraculous'.
BTW some of the Gypsy's etc. above are getting spirit messages. You have to discern weather they are good or bad spirits. Just discussion.
First of all it is a true story. If you consider it the 'miraculous' fine, I'll take it as compliment. I never looked at it that way. And I still wonder why it even occurred. It is a mystery to me.
Actually I was hoping someone step up and share a similar experience. You believe in the supernatural Karl, why do you have such an aversion to someone speaking of a supernatural event with the name of Jesus associated to it. Is everyone else welcome but...
And as far as beating, I am simply sharing episodes of my life. Things were being shared here and I was simply confirming the spiritual things that are going on that I am hearing from all of you. Beating? I could change the name to Buddha or Brahma or perhaps Allah would that suit you better Karl? More acceptable?
Who is this Jesus you profess from time to time? You want my opinion? You have a spiritual battle waging within, we all do.
I had no intention of speaking any of this, I simply came here to tell you my story that occurred long ago that foretold danger(title of thread). Since I happened to notice others were doing so I went ahead myself.
Initially I was simply wishing you well and offered to remember to say a prayer regarding your healing since I had read your story and didn't realise it was just recently that you injured your Achilles tendon until an hour ago when I saw this post.
I read three leg climbing a couple of weeks ago and for some reason then I thought it was a year ago that it all took place. BTW I am a photographer myself and have spent allot of time viewing your work, and I must say I greatly admire it.
What backfire?? What is there to backfire. An agenda? I have none. You posted "Trippy JUJU Foretelling Danger" My God Karl, my story was begging to be told. I share when appropriate. And can not imagine a more appropriate time.
I just want to say that I believe there is great power in the name of you know Who and if some one is sick or hurt or in grave danger I am willing for my whole life to backfire and fail if it will help them. I do care about you and others Karl, I am willing to make a fool of myself if that is what it takes.I was being sincere Karl, not trying to 'push' anything. Just giving a little to add with everyone else. Its eclectic. I am not blowing any bubbles, this is who I am. Evidently Iam not welcome. I have to get some sleep, 5AM is nearing.
So long Karl, have a long and happy life.
Trip~
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hooblie
climber
sounding out stuff as in the manner of crickets
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Nov 13, 2009 - 06:38am PT
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i might be accused of being "new age" in that i'm comfortable being around people who believe there is more than meets the eye, less comfortable with those who know what it is. i'll take the wandering wonderers over the dogmatists. if i want to grow in fascinating ways i will have to keep an open mind which is kind of like keeping it between the ditches. i prefer not to suspend belief nor disbelief, so the physicists who are approaching the sublime with enough sense of humor to break the mold represent the priest class for me.
years ago i read a book by joseph chilton pierce which did not overstretch my sensibilites. in a book called "crack in the cosmic egg", he explored the role that consensus plays in our ability to develop a reality construct. something along the lines of fire walkers who believe they won't get burned having better outcomes than those that doubt but try anyway.
sensitivity is a cause i can sign on to. he related a story of a group of aborigines grazing in drought conditions, without an apparent top down, hierarchical decision to do so, the group moved off in a consensus directed way to intersect a cloudburst a couple of days hence.
perception is influenceable, and reality/consensus is a more apt description of what we apprehend in our effort to percieve. not presenting this as an answer so much as a line of thinking. after all, what exactly is a hunch made up of? what are we tuning into while looking up, choosing the right course when five senses leave us dubious?
on a kauk appreciation thread i wrote that while watching him i began to consider whether there is more that holds a climber to rock than fingers and toes. pushing at the boundaries of what's possible, we climbers are engaged in an internal dialog where "can do" interfaces with "believe it can be done." but there is a "groupthink" aspect to it too. body/brainstate is not an independent affair.
my response to the aboriginal "sensitives" story is to blend a little nuance into my calender, try to be influencible by subtle cues involving time and place in order to rendezvouz with the authentic self, because the proposed version of the future can be a little clumsy as to being in the right place at the right time using strictly western ways
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Nov 13, 2009 - 10:39am PT
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I've had many such experiences - way too many to be coincidence. Every message/intuition I've ignored, I've later regretted. The ones I've listened to have saved myself and others from injury and death on several occasions. I've never heard voices, just seen images in dreams, meditation, and while driving. Mostly though I think I am too distracted for these helpful messages to get through.
At other times it's been less clear. I had several near fender benders the month before a guy slammed into the back of my car doing 100 miles an hour with his foot stuck on the gas pedal while having an epileptic seizure. I've often felt it was my karma to have an accident and I would have been better off to have had the fender bender. Then again, if he hadn't hit my car while unconscious he likely would have gone through a fence and collided with three lanes of freeway traffic. So maybe preventing greater harm was the purpose of my messed up neck?!
After I was hit I applied the brakes hard to keep from rolling into a ravine, and instead did three 360 degree circles down the road while he crashed into a concrete fence post. I had a distinct visual impression that I had angels on top of my car flapping their wings like crazy to keep it from rolling. When I stopped in the only wide place in the road, I discovered my glasses had been thrown off and the top of me was wet. When I found my glasses on the floor, I also discovered that my bottle of holy water (Greek Orthodox in this case) had flown out from under the dashboard, broken the lid off on the steering wheel, and doused me with holy water as I was going round and round. Another coincidence of course!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 13, 2009 - 12:16pm PT
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Jan, that is a chilling story. In a good way, of coarse.
And in another thread people try to prove the existence of a higher power...Oh well.
Maybe that is the difference in people of faith. Some recognize certain events differently. Luck, coincidence, or angels stopping your car.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 12:23pm PT
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Hi Trip
It was painful for me to read your last post expressing discomfort with my response. Perhaps my words were clumsy or you were sensitized while sharing something so personal.
The ONLY thing I took exception to in your post was the statement that such events were "uncommon these days." I think a lot of people have experiences that they don't share because they don't want folks to think they are nuts, or perhaps they are just too personal.
Otherwise, I'm standing right beside you with everything you say and have no resistance to Jesus in my heart at all. (Paul yes, organized Christainity..often, Jesus rocks)
Since some folks get threatened by the miraculous, sharing about it can backfire, but you are right, I started the thread and I guess I'm suggesting that perhaps it's time for some of us to be a bit more open than in the past about some of the trippy things we have been through. I commend you for sharing, and loved your story, which I don't doubt in the slightest.
I had only mentioned "Beating others over the head with the miraculous" as a general principle regarding how and where we share intimate sacred events in our lives. I think we still have to use wisdom in that, but meant NO criticism of you in it.
Sorry we misunderstood each other. I appreciate all you contributions here, whether or not we agree on every intellectual detail about things is immaterial to me.
Much love
Baba
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Nov 13, 2009 - 05:39pm PT
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Karl- "It was painful for me to read your last post".
I am sorry that pain was a result of something I said. Somewhere, Someone said that what comes out of ones mouth is a reflection of what is in their hearts. And my heart certainly misjudged you, late last night, Karl!
Occasionally, I would share some story from my past as I look back. Hoping something positive would result.
Most often with those whom I consider to be one of my own, and have been deeply hurt by the unexpected result of what I shared. Leaving me, bewildered, wondering "what have I done".
I recall after one such time, I packed up everything I owned and left. Swearing to never go back to the city, especially not to some place where people gathered once a week.
I only made it as far as Lone Pine, where I found a certain Solis, roaming the hills in the Alabama's. Climbing up on the boulders, trying to catch a better glimpse of Keeler. Where many years before I had hiked to, and sat at the base waiting for my friends.
I remember telling them, "I'll bring all the hardware, you guys bring the food". We had planned to meet at the trail-head and make the approach together. But I decided to get a head-start. I figured I would need one, with the tangle of gear I had promised to porter up the canyon.
I recall gazing into 'Iceberg Lake' about three days later wondering if there might possibly be a solitary fish or two lurking in its recesses. And the joy when they finally came into view, carrying a haul-bag full of food. What a feast we had that night, and what an incredible place to have it.
Back then I rarely thought about, let alone revealed, secrets I had long since buried in my heart. Besides, we were young, we had forever for such things.
We lost Kenny @ 1980(he was at Keeler). How could it be, I remember thinking. He was as sturdy as an oak tree. A paramedic, he saved lives, how could he have been taken from us so young?
These thoughts and others swirled through my mind those few brief days I wandered alone in those hills.
I had often entertained the thoughts of becoming a hermit in my younger years, I am sure many have. But I determined that would be a selfish alternative. So once again I drug my sorry azz home.
Your pictures, of your excursions to Whitney, were especially poignant. Returning me to a cherished place in my heart.
And after reading here about several friends with whom I had shared so many endearing moments and adventures. After reading of their last moments on earth, here on ST. I decided to post.
I had spent many hours, as I am sure many do, enjoying the adventures and anecdotes of others. Through there TR's and posts. So I decided to share a couple of mine.
It was all new to me. I bought this laptop in '07, and it sat on a shelf in a the box that it came in, untel about 5-6 months ago. Old habits die hard with me. For I chose to go to the library, use their computer. It was much more simple in my estimation.
I would never have imagined this scenario, as I glance back a few months, at the day I first logged in. I don't recall what pulled me in to this mix of personalitys, this cast of characters great and small.
But whatever it was, it compelled me to cross that line. And here I am apologising to you Karl, for my mistake.
Your a fine man Karl. I hope you continue to share your wonderful adventures for years to come.
Sincerely, your friend John.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 06:13pm PT
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No need to apologize Bro. I was just bummed that a misunderstanding came between us.
As we continue to share with others in life, we're bound to cross wires and bump into each other's reflections. No worries. We have good intentions and tolerance for our differences if any.
Wishing ya'll well and encourage folks to continue sharing on this thread to the extent that they dare!
Don't click on this thread if you'd prefer your ideas of what is possible stay limited.
Fact is, we're all a bit nuts. Many are stuck in a homogenized, culturally sanctioned version of insanity that seems normal because, at least externally, it is shared.
Others have taken a trip down the rabbit hole and know the world isn't as it seems, but often don't know how to digest the unexpected mystery with clarity. That makes them (us) seem nuts to the standard nuts.
Everybody considers climbersto be nuts.
More and more, the mystery is being revealed and we are perhaps challenged to share more deeply than we have in the past. I welcome it.
I have a card on my fridge, "the only normal people are the ones you don't know very well." We all have mysteries within us. We all have some dysfunction within us. Some of us are just locked tighter and pretend better than others.
Plus, it must have hurt to get burned at the stake.
Peace
karl
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Nov 13, 2009 - 07:15pm PT
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bluering- "and in another thread people try to prove the existence of a higher power..Ow well."
I am not sure what 'people' you are referring to, but I will say this.
I am not trying to prove anything! I am simply sharing an event in my life. Period. For years, as I was implying up-thread, shared the exact story in various churches I attended, or with believers I know. Was I trying to prove something? On the contrary, they already believed in the same higher power I was talking about.
And I will be honest with you, it met with its own vain of criticism and some cases disbelief. I am talking about over a period of 30yrs. a handful of times.
Prove? He was on the earth thirty years and no one believed, and 2,000 years later do you think some mere man could 'prove'?
Really bluering, I would expect more from you. If you choose to 'walk on eggshells' and strive to fit in, that's your choice. I am glad Christ didn't choose to do so. He is my example, and I am not ashamed.
I occasionally share events of my life here, good and bad.
I do see how one could perceive it as "trying to prove the existence...". I am not naive.
But to credit what I believe to something less would be to discredit/devalue Someone I know.
Angels do play a significant role and we will probable not know the total significance until after we leave here(my opinion).
And as BIOTEC stated: eerie.
I understand this fully. And I new that most, if not all would perceive it as so. I took that risk. None of these reactions are new to me. If I am ever asked to speak at a church again you should be present for the firestorm of criticism there.
My only alternative is to withdraw. I have many times, but as I feebly attempted to illustrate in my post to Karl, something always pulls me back.
I will certainly be more discerning the next time the urge comes my way.
Trip~
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Nov 13, 2009 - 07:37pm PT
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Karl- "Plus, it must have hurt to get burned at the stake".
Hahaha.
So-funny!
I love it, that will keep me smiling.
I better give that some serious consideration though. I can here them chopping the wood right now.(lol)
Everything you said above Karl^^^So true!!!
Thanks Again.
Peace and Love Forever.
Trip~
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 13, 2009 - 07:40pm PT
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Trip7. I think you have taken some things too personally. Blue wasn't talking about you. And Karl had no problem with what you said in your first post, except that he thought these type of communications were happening more often. He welcomes them, which is why he started the thread.
Many of us here have a long history of talking about God and such experiences. So there are often back stories and people who resist what we say. Blue was talking about just such a thing. So try not to take it personally. Your stories are welcome. Just be aware that there are plenty of folks on this forum who don't believe in God and think that this is all houiee. Karl and Blue both believe in God. They have different sets of beliefs, but they both accept that God is real. So do I and so do many others.
Jan.. that is a wild story about the car accident. You had karma with this other person.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Nov 13, 2009 - 08:15pm PT
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John Moosie!
You know, I almost added that at that at the bottom, that maybe I am taking things a little to seriously and I did pause for a second in regards to what blue was saying. He certainly didn't elaborate on it. And I felt as though I might be missing the intended subtly.
Go a head and say it. "The dudes a trouble maker"(me).
I apologise blurering!
I hardly know you or about your life.
And what I have seen here at ST is one cool and flexible dude.
Willing to make a stand for what he believes, and right there to add encouragement and support when someone needs it. With a dash of humor in the mix.
I did take it to personal.
Sorry to one and all.
And thanks for bringing this to my attention.
I think I will take Frank Sacherer's advice....I can here him yelling at me now..."Shut up you chicken sh#t and just climb"!
Sincerely, Trip~
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 08:20pm PT
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"I think I will take Frank Sacherer's advice....I can here him yelling at me now..."Shut up you chicken sh#t and just climb!"
How about "Quit squirming dumbf*#k and just post!"
;-)
Karl
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Nov 13, 2009 - 08:23pm PT
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LOL, ...or "Get over you self ya dip s@#$, and tell another story"
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Nov 13, 2009 - 08:25pm PT
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Karl!
Ditto!^^^
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 13, 2009 - 08:51pm PT
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Trip, Moosie is right, but no apologies are required, bro.
Your story of when you were younger must have been pretty intense at the time.
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Nov 13, 2009 - 08:53pm PT
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John- "Get over your self ya dip sh#t... and tell another story".
OK! I like that, good solid advice one and all.
Here goes "another story"(right on topic).
About '72. Out at 'Josh' with a friend for a couple a day's, very crowded three day weekend. Swirling illusions(once again) about becoming a world renowned hard-man in my head(hvn't we all)'
Early morning the urge to crap hit us both. So we make a mad dash to the
Porta-potty or what ever they called it in the middle of the intersection rock campground. I won. Sat inside and I just couldn't drop the load...one little marble...two little marbles.... After about what seemed like a much longer than usual ten minutes, Hugh(climb-partner)yells at the top of his lungs....."SH#T OR GET OFF THE POT"!!!
You should have heard the roar of laughter.
And when I came out it increased!!
Yep!
Hardman, right(think this be clssified as a premonition/or maybe a reality check as in Hardman knot)
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 13, 2009 - 09:29pm PT
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Don't worry about Bluering, many of us know "OW well."
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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Nov 13, 2009 - 11:04pm PT
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You guys are pretty funny...
all I can say is sh*t happens.
Your eyes are either open or not.
It's all a mystery to me anyway, and frankly I like mysteries.
Cheers,
DD
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sunshinedaydream
Trad climber
the big granite bubble
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Nov 13, 2009 - 11:54pm PT
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Yo Karl,
So I don't usually read the details of everyone's El Cap route's, but something keeps bringing me back here. I'm still recovering from an ankle injury at that same spot, from the same blown blue alien and inverted cam hook. Took the same ride, with everyone watching, saying "right on that was some awesome airtime". I've taken lead falls on the Captain and nothing has shaken me like this fall. However, something tonight in reading your report and seeing pictures of you and Jacob, who was recovering from the same ankle injury as mine, kicked my ass back into gear...
Onward!
Jess
P.S. I'm in a rahu dasa cycle and had the same prediction by an astrologer...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2009 - 12:19am PT
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Jess wrote
"... I'm still recovering from an ankle injury at that same spot, from the same blown blue alien and inverted cam hook. Took the same ride....P.S. I'm in a rahu dasa cycle and had the same prediction by an astrologer..."
Well if I wasn't trippin' before, I am now!! Thanks for that post!
I'm used to more than meets the eye but I can relate when you say.." I've taken lead falls on the Captain and nothing has shaken me like this fall." I can't say I felt shaken but it did have the intuitive feeling of destiny taking place, shaping my life and future.
Peace
karl
I gotta tack a synopsis of some of this this JuJu talk on the comments of my "trip" report
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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Nov 14, 2009 - 12:19am PT
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Karl, I don't understand many unexlainable things that occur, random stuff without logic. But you're not ready to go, it isn't your time, because I want to meet you and chat with you, about whatever, good enough?
Karen
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2009 - 12:26am PT
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I don't think I'm going anywhere except the land of change.
Of course change is constant in our lives but mine's been relatively chill in an exciting way for over a decade. Feels like death of some of my old ways, even though I liked them.
Peace
Karl
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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Nov 14, 2009 - 12:44am PT
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Wow, Pate, a bird just about side swiped my face today in the backyard, he came withing inches, oh no....................!!!!
you know when climbing high up on a wall and you're hanging out on a belay and a bird dive bombs down, it makes that cool sound as it wooshes by, well, that is what happened today, 'cept was standing on flat ground, so weird....
My neighbor was chatting with me and it made him jump.
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MH2
climber
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Nov 14, 2009 - 12:58am PT
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Karl, you are wise. Good sense of humor, too, but this is more about the accidents that can take us permanently from the scene, physically, at least. It's good to be able to say that you would not have too much or at least intolerable regret if you weren't around tomorrow. I believe everyone has some understanding that this isn't forever. For most the premonition never gets more specific.
I hope you stay with us a lot longer.
Since you ask, here is a juju story I believe in. It didn't happen to me, but to a friend I made in South Africa. He is famous, to pip the dog at any rate, as the guy who, "once picked up a mamba." He spent time on radio and is a good storyteller and this story is pretty long, but I don't feel comfortable shortening it much.
*
Shortly after you left I flew into a mountain with a paraglider. Broken foot, torn hamstrings, injured back and the like. When looking at my feet, my first thought was that my Scarpa's wouldn't fit.
In February '97 I was involved in a head on collision, at the very robot (traffic light) in Potgietersrus were a policeman pulled us off on the way home from Cape Town. I caught a lift with the tow truck that was removing the Golf to the panel shop. He dropped me off on the outskirts of town, right in front of a Gypsy's caravan. I have seen this particular band often whilst growing up in Gauteng. They would be parked in the same spot each October, and would be at the Rand Easter Show (a big annual fair) and I also saw them a couple of times in Pretoria. There was always something preventing me from making use of their services, I either had a momentary moral objection, no money or no time (mostly the latter two). Standing next to the road with no lift in sight, I had all the time in the world and 32 Rand in my pocket.
An old man showed me into her room at the back of the caravan. I asked how much. She looked at me and said: "Yes, you have enough with you". A cheap trick I know but from that point onwards I had goose flesh. She hardly looked at my palms but started telling me about Oscar, and not in the vague-astrology-this-could-be-anybody kind of way, she was spouting specifics, which she had no right to know. The final question I asked concerned the possibility of a wife. The gist of the answer was that I will not pay heed to the often heard lament of many a married man, and will follow in their betrothed footsteps, she said that I will be happy in marriage. I got up to leave and on my way to the door she said: "You have already seen her once".
Later the same month I was invited to dinner at friends of a friend. The moment I climbed over the balcony railing I was confronted by long black hair and the bluest pair of eyes. They belonged to the friend of the friend' s neighbor, Elaine. She taught fourth grade at one of the English Primary Schools. Throughout the evening we were involved in various friendly arguments, from religion to politics. I couldn't shake the feeling that I have seen her somewhere before. I visited her the next day and the day after and the day after and the day after an ill wind (later realized to be fortuitous) blew me into the mountain and buggered up my feet a bit. Elaine visited me in the hospital and tried not to grimace too much. Upon release from that evil smelling institution it became obvious that I would not be able to return to my previous abode just yet. The lack of a lift, made getting to the third floor in a wheelchair a pretty serious obstacle. Elaine offered me her spare bedroom (she would now probably claim it to have been during a momentary lapse of reason), also her apartment block was the only one with a wheelchair ramp in Pietersburg (still can't handle lifts). The initial idea was that I would stay there until I got onto crutches. Then the idea was that I would move back to my place when the cast was removed. Eventually it became: as soon as I can walk properly. Finally we came to the conclusion that I had less of my stuff in my apartment than hers, and if a move would be made it would be much easier just bringing the rest of my stuff over. In December that year we got engaged.
We visited her parents in White River, a small town in Mpumalanga, about 40 km. from Sabie. On the way back I mentioned that I knew people who lived in White River. A Dutch family called Izzeboud, and before she could answer I realized why Elaine had seemed so familiar when we first met.
My parents had gone off on a 2-month holiday to the Cape when I was in grade 11. During that time there were two long weekends. All my friends were off to various fun-filled locations and it seemed that I would have no option but to spend the weekends alone in the boarding school. Luckily I got an invitation from the Izzeboud's to visit them. The three Izzeboud girls went to a private/religious/American-style/self-motivation type school. That particular Friday was a normal school day for them; they invited me to join them. On the way back that afternoon I saw a girl sitting just ahead and on the other side of the bus from me. She didn't talk to anybody and just stared out the window. When she got up to leave, I saw that she had a pretty face that went with her long black hair, but mostly I noticed her very blue eyes.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Pasadena, CA
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Nov 14, 2009 - 01:06am PT
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I am enjoying and appreciating all the interesting views and thoughts from the good folks here.
I appreciate the mystery (or maybe, better, mysteries). There's something about humans, especially in this day and age, that makes us think we are capable of explaining everything. Indeed, we can come to understand a lot, but it starts to get a bit arrogant when we think we can absolutely know it all in a rational and logical way.
I've always been a great admirer of Socrates, who didn't believe he was the wisest man in the world because he knew he knew nothing. But after he comes to see that he's the only one who understands that he knows nothing, only then does he realize he probably is the wisest man. The wise fool is a common character in literature and often the only one who can truly "see" the truth. The fool in King Lear comes to mind, as does Kurasawa's Japanese version of Lear, Ran.
I don't think these "Juju" experiences are for the special or unique. Rather, I think we're out of touch with the ways of connecting and recognizing them. There are many ways of "knowing" and logic and rationality is but one. The is emotional knowing and intuitive knowing, for example.
I know in my own life, that whenever I heeded my intuition, positive things tended to occur. And when I didn't, well, that's when I got some hard schoolin'!
My wife and I were at a wedding once (in Bali which is a land full of spirits with a people who are very much in touch with them). At the reception, she started choking on a piece of meat. I very clearly recall her speaking to me, "Eric, I'm choking, help!" But, of course, it was only much later that I realized that she couldn't have physically voiced this. But I very clearly heard her words. I did the Heimlich on her and wasn't performing it strongly enough. In the course of all this, a big,strapping Aussie pal told me, "mate, you gotta use all yer strength... lift her off the ground!" I did, literally yanking her whole body up into the air with my clenched fists. And that chunk of meat came right out. It was a very surreal experience.
Eric
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Nov 14, 2009 - 01:53am PT
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Eric-
I couldn't agree more and one of the reasons I love living in Asia is that most people here are still in touch with their intuition which has over the years helped me get in better touch with mine. After nine years of secular university education, I needed a lot of deprogramming!
Also, I think there are some spots on this earth that have a special energy which makes it possible to get in touch with other dimensions in this universe. Bali seems to be one, Nepal is one, and Okinawa where I have lived seems to be another. Part of it is the local belief system - the main festival here is to welcome back the ancestors for three days every year.
I believe part of it also, is something to do with the physical environment, a special electromagnetic property. Mountains and oceans seem to have these properties. We do know that all the great Taoist temples in China are built on hills with magnetic properties and Tibetan Buddhists meditate sometimes under copper hoods or magnets. So there is something there, and one of my great frustrations is that I can't find a scientist who can even countenance the possibility that there is a connection.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2009 - 01:58am PT
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I’ve got a million trippy stories but here’s one that’s once again climbing accident related.
Way back in 1981 (give or take a year) a buddy and I decided to practice aid up the Stigma on the Cookie Cliff. Back then you could drive right to the base and anchor to your steering wheel or bumper!
It was rated A2 which seemed easy enough that we wouldn’t need pins. We ro sham bo’ed for the lead which I won.
The higher I got, the harder it got. Nearing the (then higher) anchor I had been using crack-in-ups, hooks, micro-stoppers and it kept getting worse. Something ripped and I was suddenly weightless. The rope caught my leg and flipped me upside down. I could feel more gear ripping giving me one weak shock after another as I rocketed in slow motion downwards. I could see the ground approaching fast. I had time to think “Am I going to actually deck? Is this ‘It’”
Booiiing! A piece finally caught me. I was upside down, and close enough to the ground that one more piece blowing might have sent me to the road.
My partner suddenly lost his appetite for leading. It was up to me to go back up and finish the pitch. This time I brought a hammer but, like a testosterone infected youth, only used it once or twice very lightly. I discovered two disturbing things.
One: The #1 wired Hex, placed sideways between two crack protrusions that held my fall, and that I used to Jumar back to my high point; For some reason I cleaned it when I reached the top of the rope. The rock shattered on both sides of it when I cleaned it. It could have easily failed.
Two: Somewhere above that was a #4 stopper still in the crack but with a broken wire. I cleaned it for a souvenir. Eerily, part of the #4 stamp had worn off so that only the shape of a crucifix was visible. At the time, it felt like an omen.
Anyway, I finally got the pitch but it was dark by the time it came for my second to clean. It was threatening to rain with heavy mist coming down. We didn’t have a headlamp so I tore the rear view mirror off my Volkswagen bug and turned on the headlights. I reflected the headlights up on the wall so my partner could see!
Years later I had a very powerful vivid dream harkening back to the accident. In the dream, I took the exact same fall from the exact same perspective but this time I hit the ground. I was stunned and managed to crawl into the passenger seat of my car before my world contracted around me and I knew I was going to die. The world faded around me and I turned within, but an amazing conscious divine light dawned within me. I merged with it and began to expand in all directions. I was expanding, merged with that light outside the boundaries of my body and beyond, beyond, beyond. It was total ecstasy. So much so, that self-consciousness of the experience arose and that brought me back to the waking state.
Not making any particular claims about the experience except that its bliss far surpassed anything that regular life seems to offer.
Peace
karl
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matty
Trad climber
los arbor
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Nov 14, 2009 - 04:21am PT
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Karl - What a wonderful way to honor those who passed. They were lucky to have counted you among their friends. Good job Baba
Matt
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TripL7
Trad climber
'dago'
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Nov 14, 2009 - 06:20am PT
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Karl!
Great story about the 'Stigma'! I also remember how people use to tie off their cars there. I remember once mid-70's walking buy and Hugh B. was kicking back in his front seat belaying someone leading the 'Stigma'.
Actually, I wanted to ask if you had more photo's to go along with the remembrances(Stigma), or anyone else for that matter it would be cool to see.
Thanks Again, Trip~
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2009 - 12:40pm PT
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I might have taken a picture of the rope hanging from the high point after the fall but it was never scanned, don't know where it is exactly and I'm not at home. I vaguely remember a grainy shot of the splitter crack and a rope. Not too enlightening.
Peace
Karl
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Nov 14, 2009 - 07:37pm PT
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about a month ago, I was reclining on the couch in
my living room with my front door open. my knees
were drawn up, with a blanket over me, dozing
taking a midday nap.
I awoke with the feeling of a soft hand on my knees,
smiled and looked up to see a bird, it had landed
there, perched on my knees.
I spoke to it, "hey birdie" it turned, looked at me
straight on for a brief moment, then took off,
flew outside, and perched on the roof of the
garage.
I would like to know if there is a singular resource
where I can research Greek bird omens.
thanks.
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MH2
climber
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Nov 15, 2009 - 04:42pm PT
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I would like to know if there is a singular resource
where I can research Greek bird omens.
I don't know of one but there is a bird encounter somewhat like the one you relate in Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl. Part of that book is an account of his time in several German concentration camps during WWII.
"Another time we were at work in a trench. The dawn was gray around us; gray was the sky above; gray the snow in the pale light of dawn; gray the rags in which my fellow prisoners were clad, and gray their faces. I was again conversing silently with my wife...more and more I felt that she was present, that she was with me; I had the feeling that I was able to touch her, able to stretch out my hand and grasp hers. The feeling was very strong: she was there. Then, at that very moment, a bird flew down silently and perched just in front of me, on the heap of soil which I had dug up from the ditch, and looked steadily at me."
Personally I see no reason not to allow chance to account for what seem to us eerie coincidences. The world is vast and every moment holds the opportunity for coincidences, most of which probably go unnoticed. Why, just last night I made it another few pages through my current reading project and came across:
"Now after an injury, physical, spiritual, whatever, one always believes had one followed a premonition (there is usually in such instance an imagined premonition) nothing would have happened; still, had I absolute foreknowledge, I should have gone right ahead, for in every lifetime there occur situations when one is no more than a thread in a design willfully woven by ... who should I say? God?"
Other Voices, Other Rooms
copyright 1948 by Truman Capote
published as a Signet book by arrangement with Random House
Tenth printing
pp. 81,82
I took a fall on the Stigma, too, in the 70s, trying to aid it on small stoppers. One of several lessons, or messages if you prefer, that aid climbing isn't for me.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Nov 15, 2009 - 05:35pm PT
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Should we start calling you Karl Jung?
Or would that invoke too much synchronicity?
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Nov 15, 2009 - 05:58pm PT
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yes, MH2, I saw a coincidence of sorts.
let me complete the story, cause there
is a trippy juju element :-)
when the bird took off it first lit
on the roof of my car, within view
of the couch.
I got up, walked to the door, and the
bird moved up, onto the roof of the
detached garage.
as I stood looking at it, the thought entered my
head, "the bird wants me to get out" as in,
excersise I assumed.
then the brid took off.
this was temp lodging for me while house hunting
for real. turns out the propane furnace had a clogged
vent, and was probably emitting carbon monoxide,
along with other issues...I no longer dwell there.
it is a coincidence - but kinda trippy.
"the bird wants me to get out."
thanks for your reply :-)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2009 - 06:31pm PT
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In my trippy experience, the best way to process our poetic experience of omens and events is intuitively. How does it strike you within? Sometimes you just have to sit with not knowing.
Seems like Ray got the direction out of the house from within and looks like a good idea as well
Reading up on the symbolic meaning of omens and getting too mental about anything often leads us to making up stories.
Peace
Karl
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Nov 15, 2009 - 07:49pm PT
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Karl, what was interesting was how the thought
"felt" as it entered my head. I cannot decribe it,
but it feels different, if you will, than "stream of
conciousness". Just instinct I guess.
Karl, may I ask a question about Yosemite?
it has to do with the place behind the visitor
center, where the big tree and the benches are,
by the entrance to the auditoriums.
The question is, do you recall how many benches
there are, surrounding that big tree?
I had a trippy juju experience there, but cannot
remember how many benches there are?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2009 - 08:06pm PT
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"Karl, what was interesting was how the thought
"felt" as it entered my head. I cannot decribe it,
but it feels different, if you will, than "stream of
conciousness". Just instinct I guess."
Yup, there is a kind of direct knowledge that feels like a compressed download that unpacks itself as sudden knowing in your head without having to be reasoned or imagined. Sort of like that?
Can't speak about the benches in the valley but Werner is very close to that spot often so he might be able to tell you
My mobility is limited these days for reasons noted higher in the thread
Peace
Karl
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Nov 15, 2009 - 08:42pm PT
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yes Karl, you are right about the way the
thought feels. It isn't a big deal, just sorta
like the "arrival of a letter".
The number of benches behind the visitor
center in the valley may be irrelevant.
Many of us know the spot.
The bench in question is the one on the east side
of that big tree. I worked there one summer, selling
tickets for the John Muir show and "proved my theory"
by sharing it with someone so they could watch too.
I had noticed when I walked into that area, and had
time to wait, that I "liked" a certain spot on that bench,
the one under and on the east side of the tree. I sat there
and looked down. A section of root protrudes from the
earth, right under ones feet.
The section of root isn't very big, but distinct.
I noticed, because I sat with my back to the auditorium
facing west, that others liked to sit at that spot too.
It was funny.
The spot is pretty much dead center on that bench,
the root right under your feet.
So, one night walking back to camp after the show
the root came up in my minds eye. I wasn't really
walking around dwelling on this, the image
of the root just showed up.
Then, for no good reason, the thought of why the
root protrudes showed up. Could it be a rock under
there? But the thought said, "no" there is something
under there making that root protrude.
Not a rock.
At this point, I began to weep.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Nov 15, 2009 - 08:48pm PT
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We have many such places in Okinawa where 250,000 people died in two month's time in 1945, most of them civilians. I don't even visit the southern 10% of the island where the big battles occurred as the feeling is so heavy, I can't stop weeping. I therefore associate that feeling with a tragic and untimely death. About all we can do is pray for the unknown person who lies there.
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Nov 15, 2009 - 08:53pm PT
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Jan!
that is it.
Thats what I "felt"
The thought said it was the remains
of a native american.
weeping now...
EDIT: when the thought "registers" tears follow.
I have composed myself now, sorry.
Trippy Juju :-)
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Nov 15, 2009 - 09:02pm PT
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hey there jan... say, i know what you are saying...
very strong impact that one is in the midst of then...
thanks for sharing...
some folks dont understand, unless they have gone through that...
thanks for the share...
sometimes, too, you can feel that when you meet someone, and not know why, too... though not always...
then--i realize i am supposed to go home and pray for that person, cause the have not been able to release some sorrows of their past...
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Nov 15, 2009 - 09:20pm PT
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Ray,
I also felt as I read what you wrote that it was a Native American, probably a young person.
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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Nov 15, 2009 - 09:23pm PT
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yes Jan, an adolescent.
guess we'll never know...
so sad tho.
thank you.
(Jan, maybe younger than an adolescent, lying face down
I just had something happen, I might throw up)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2009 - 10:25pm PT
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When I causally visited the spot where Gandhi was shot, I wasn't prepared for the powerful vibes I encountered three. Powerful JuJu
They say whatever happens in a place adds to the vibes of that place. That's what holy places are about in some ways. Sadly, it goes both ways.
I know of several instances where I, or somebody, got some bad feelings about a place, only to find somebody had been murdered there in the past.
Peace
karl
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Nov 16, 2009 - 01:46am PT
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Here's a funny story about that.
I was house hunting in Okinawa with an American friend. We went into a house that felt ok until we got to the back bedroom where a terrible heavy feeling descended on us both simultaneously. We looked at each other and also said simultaneously, "someone was murdered or killed themselves in here".
When we got back to the Okinawan housing agent, she asked us what we thought and we told her what we had experienced. She then started bowing and apologizing, saying, "I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, I didn't know Americans could feel things like that or I would not have sent you there".
Of course now I know that anytime there is an apartment in Okinawa with such problems it quickly gets a reputation with the locals who won't touch it, so they lower the rent and then advertise it to Americans, most of whom (but not all) don't notice such things.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2009 - 12:19pm PT
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Great story Jan
We are having these experiences of vibrations all the time but for most of us, the experience is subtle enough that it gets drowned out by the overwhelming stream of thoughts and sensations that are "grosser"
Once you learn to tune in, there's a whole other world out there.
I do a meditation/recharge retreat in India every winter and there's a place where I go sometimes where, maybe once or twice a day, some people regarded as "saints" walk by. Most of the time, who walks by are groups of indian or western pilgrims. The size and walking behavior of the groups are not different.
So last year I noticed 3 or 4 times, when I would meditate in a certain spot, that there was a powerful "electricity" in the air, like a magnetism, when somebody would walk by. Enough to make me open my eyes. EVERY TIME, it was one of the local saints.
Sort of like a double-blind test, which is good because it's easy to fool yourself.
PEace
Karl
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Nov 16, 2009 - 12:24pm PT
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Karl-
Where in India do you go? I've made 12 trips there so far but strangely enough, not to an ashram.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2009 - 12:37pm PT
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A little town called Lakshman Jhula where the Ganges is about to spill out from the foothills of the Himalaya into the plains. Just above Rishikesh
Access to nature and culture both
Peace
Karl
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Nov 17, 2009 - 08:55am PT
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It looks quite wonderful. I've never been to the western foothills or Himalayas, but I loved Darjeeling and especially Sikkim when I was there.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Nov 18, 2009 - 09:26pm PT
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I once heard the voice of God.
I grew up never attending church and my family was not religious.
I was kayaking in Northern Minnesota. I was going to meet some friends and I got caught out in some cold mist. The sun went down and I was forced to bivvy in the woods at the side of the lake-I had a wet night and woke up chilly, ate no breakfast and continued on to meet my friends.
They were going to be at one of four sites. The first two came up empty and I began to get nervous as I was getting thermed out. No one was at site 3 and at that point a voice came into my head- I would describe this voice as being perfect kindness and perfect love. I knew it accepted me and there was nothing that I had to hide from it. this was the sense I had and still have 30 plus years later.
It told me things were going to work out fine. I spoke back to it and told it I was scared. I was reassurred by this voice. I looked over the lake to site 4 and I could see smoke coming up through the trees. I called out and sure enough my friends were there waiting. I paddled up to them and I told them that I was glad I saw the smoke from their campfire. They looked at each other and then told me that they had no fire burning.
Going home from that weekend the highway that runs along L. Superior was flooded out from the heavy rains. Being broke, I ended up staying in a church that night. I talked to the Pastor at the church and told him about what had happened to me. We talked about Christ and God and what I think is remarkable- we talked for about 3 hours but to me the sense of time passing seemed to be about 5 minutes.
I became spiritual after this and a Christian. I'm not real evangelical but I believe that the voice was God and that he exists. I do not concern myself with heaven or hell or final judgements- I had done nothing to be singled out or in any ways deserving- yet I received a gift. I don't pretend to be able to interpret why or what it means.
True story and I'm not trying to sell you on anything but this is what happened to me.
Dan
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MH2
climber
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Nov 18, 2009 - 10:05pm PT
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Good story.
My parents, shortly after they met, got surprised by a storm while kayaking on the coast of Maine. They were driven onto the shore of an island and were met by someone who took them directly to a warm cabin where supper was waiting.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2009 - 10:20pm PT
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" I would describe this voice as being perfect kindness and perfect love. I knew it accepted me and there was nothing that I had to hide from it. this was the sense I had and still have 30 plus years later."
I believe that. I'll note that folks who report transformative spiritual experiences almost always report divine guidance as accepting, non-judgmental, and full of Love.
Peace
karl
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Nov 19, 2009 - 12:24am PT
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Another Okinawa driving story. I once had a near miss (an almost weekly occurrence here) when a guy arguing with his wife pulled out into a lane of traffic doing about 50 miles per hour (the top speed limit here thank goodness). He never noticed that I was right behind him until he heard my squealing tires at which point he hit his brakes instead of speeding up, and I stopped 1/4 of an inch behind him while a guy behind me flipped his steering wheel so that he skidded sideways down the road and stopped 1/4 inch behind me but horizontal to my car.
Five years later I was driving down the road at 10 am just after a rainstorm and that near miss came back to me. I thought it odd that I should remember it suddenly after five years, but I played out in my mind step by step what the guy behind me must have done to skid sideways down the road and not end up going in circles - pumping brakes, flipping the steering wheel from one side to the other etc., as though skidding on ice. I was reminded that the roads here were made with ground-up coral which becomes extremely slick when wet, just like ice.
Suddenly, the guy in front of me (we're all doing 50 mph) hits his brakes as hard as he can, and automatically, I went into action doing exactly what I had just rehearsed in my mind. As I skidded sideways down the road past him, (we were on a four lane freeway) I could see that he had stopped to avoid running over a huge dog that was dead in the road and would have wrecked his little mini car had he hit it.
I thanked my guardian angel or whoever it was that had forewarned me and continued on.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2009 - 03:21am PT
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Driving is almost proof that there's some kind of supernatural order in existence. If things were truly mechanical, and given human unawareness and vices, there should be a bloodbath every day on the hilly streets of San Francisco with many deaths!
Peace
Karl
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BrianH
Trad climber
santa fe
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Sometimes it's fun to think of "ju-ju" as cross talk bleeding over from parallel universes that are just outside our frame of reference. As we expand our perception, such cross talk might become more common.
After the big bang, matter started spreading out in all directions. Eventually it coalesced into what we recognize as the "universe." Our conception of the universe has been changing over time as our sensory apparatus become more powerful. For example we've received images from the universe when it was just 300 millions years old. That's quite a leap from the old earth-centric system we used for much of humanity's history.
"But it moves!"
Scientists say that our sensory apparatus can account for only ~10% of the mass that should be in the universe. What if the other mass actually accounted for other universes, and this ju-ju was simply dopplegangers of ourselves exchanging energy through an as yet unknown process?
I've dreamt the future. Images I've seen in my minds eye have replicated in real life, sometimes decades after the fact.
Standing in front of a room of African faces.
The crash where I totaled my big brother's car.
"Is there a doctor in the house?"
I was thinking of you ... I was thinking of YOU!
Maybe these were just things that had happened to a similar me, in a similar universe.
The list goes on.
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