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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 9, 2009 - 08:45pm PT
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We're going to give my new film, "The Disciples of Gill,"
a sneak peak at Neptune Mountaineering, this month, November
24th, Tuesday, at 7PM. So let everyone know, spread the word,
to anyone in the area or close enough to get there.
I'll be (more than likely still on crutches, we'll see).
I guess you might say this will be the premier.
Pat Ament
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, pat... three cheers...
not sure where this place, is.. .but i will remember to help keep it bumped for all the folks to see...
heal well... and god bless to you... :)
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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It's in Boulder, CO.
Curt
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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awesome
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there curt.. say, thanks so much... wow, maybe someday i shall see boulder, one never knows....
thanks again, there may be other lost on the trail, as i was, too... :)
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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Well, I can't make it to Boulder that day, but am looking forward to seeing the end result.
Bump.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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When can I see it since I most likely won't be able to get to Boulder?
Thanks for the heads up Pat.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 10:59pm PT
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I will try to do a little tour, first of the Front Range,
then over to Utah's reverse Front Range (Salt Lake, Ogden,
maybe Provo), and, after that,
it will be wherever I can set things up. Will probably do
a show in the Grand Junction area...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Calling all BoulderTacoBenders™ !!!
This be our next call to arms........
Time to get into position, gather 'round our cocktails and snatch the show!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
Will know soon
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Will Gill be there ? I'd love to hear his take on a few things I have questions on. Where is J. Gill now....? lynnie
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Nov 10, 2009 - 12:10am PT
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Can't make it until next spring. Maybe a private showing while I visit relatives in Fruita?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
climber
. . . not !
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Nov 10, 2009 - 12:35am PT
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If not a disciple , I'm at least a follower . Do you have any excerpts of your films online ? A youtube account would nice for keeping everyone up to date on your projects . BTW - What does your camera arsenal consist of (digital / analog / 16mm etc) ? Thanks ~ β
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2009 - 12:43am PT
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I might try to put together some kind of preview,
or trailer, if that's what you call it,
at some point. What with this leg thing I'm lucky
to get the film out at all. Not sure if Gill will
be able to make it or not. Always a possibility.
Don't worry about the technicalities. Just come and
have fun, enjoy, laugh, cry...
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2009 - 12:46am PT
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By the way, the film is shot in high definition,
even the dumb fall where I hit the ground in an
ugly cloud of dust...
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Nov 10, 2009 - 01:24am PT
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Post up when you're going to be in SLC, you can certainly count me in.
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The Wedge
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Nov 10, 2009 - 01:33am PT
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Tour to Bishop? I will drink some beer and watch a flick!
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Nov 10, 2009 - 01:40am PT
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(The Disciples of Gill) are; Number one, John Long and John Bachar….If Gill likes it or not. or them. It's true.
I’ll try to attend, work and weather permitting.
Dawg.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 10, 2009 - 07:26pm PT
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Bump.
I'll be there, Pat. I think BobD will be too.
Curt
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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Nov 10, 2009 - 07:34pm PT
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Funny, every time this thread catches the corner of my eye, it reads "The Disciplines of Gill".
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Barbarian
Trad climber
slowly dying in the OC
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Nov 10, 2009 - 07:49pm PT
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"I will try to do a little tour, first of the Front Range,
then over to Utah's reverse Front Range (Salt Lake, Ogden,
maybe Provo), and, after that,
it will be wherever I can set things up. Will probably do
a show in the Grand Junction area..."
Oh sure Pat....everywhere I used to live and not where I am now.
I hope to see it sometime. Get that leg healed up and get back out there.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2009 - 08:47pm PT
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Yes Long and Bachar are and were disciples of Gill, not
among the original cadre during the 1960's, and thus they
didn't get to see him when he was at his best, but one of
the subtle themes of the film is that we are all disciples
of Gill, in a sense, in that we have been affected by him
in one way or another. Even my nine year old daughter is a
disciple of Gill, though she has never met him or climbed
with him...
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Nov 10, 2009 - 10:18pm PT
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That would be great to see! I don't know of any climber that wasn't inspired by him...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 10, 2009 - 11:03pm PT
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Count me among them. Hail to the power and the glory of the subtle master of rock! Congrats on finishing the project, Pat and allowing the world to see John as you have seen him, always in motion.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 11, 2009 - 01:19am PT
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You got that right, Watusi.
Curt
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2009 - 05:52am PT
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He was/is of course the master in many ways other than
just of the rock... That's something that has really
set him apart through the years, his mind, his humiity...
So many have become very good on rock, but to have all those
other important virtues... well, that's another matter -- more
difficult to achieve than any grade of difficulty... and
apparently in John's case it was a gift. I think somewhat of
Peter Croft... also, in this respect...
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Pasadena, CA
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Nov 11, 2009 - 06:05am PT
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I would love the opportunity to see this should it come to these parts. Sounds poignant.
Eric
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Nov 11, 2009 - 06:25am PT
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All of us early So. Ill. climbers were indirect disciples of Gill and maybe wouldn't have been climbers at all if John hadn't decided to stretch his legs in the Dixon Springs hollows while traveling through.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Nov 11, 2009 - 09:50am PT
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Pat...looking forward to seeing your new project. Hope the leg and you are doing good? Take care of yourself.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2009 - 10:39am PT
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Thanks, Bob. We should try to all get together either
before or after the show...! The great Curt Shannon will
be coming, all the way from the Phoenix area...
Pat
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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Nov 11, 2009 - 12:15pm PT
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Will it have an interview with Holloway? The Verm? Bob Williams? Skip Guerin? Steve Mammen?
This film is going to be AWESOME.
When are you gonna bring it to the west coast, Pat?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Nov 11, 2009 - 03:08pm PT
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hey pat-- glad to see you've got a good venue for a premiere.
i can't make it. i'm doing 70 hrs this week and all the rest until xmas. i can't get out to the front range until spring.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 11, 2009 - 03:33pm PT
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Holy hyperbole. Who the hell is the great Curt Shannon? Unless, of course, you're referring to my current waist size.
Curt
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2009 - 07:09pm PT
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Can't interview everyone, as the film would be
twenty hours long, but yes Holloway, Bates, Greg Lowe,
and others who really were at the heart of it all... I'm
sure there will always be someone who will tell me
who I neglected to include, but that's life I guess...
Curt, you are one of the great boulderers.
Pat
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Nov 11, 2009 - 10:16pm PT
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Cool - Neptune's is walking distance from the house. Too bad Tuesdays are the only night of the week that I am in Denver teaching until 8:15pm. Hopefully you guys can post up some photos of the good time.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 11, 2009 - 10:20pm PT
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hey curt, are you driving or flying?
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Nov 11, 2009 - 10:24pm PT
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Any youtube of this?
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 11, 2009 - 11:46pm PT
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I'm flying, Bob. The airfares from PHX to DEN are ridiculously cheap--starting at about $140 round trip. You should drive down here and fly--I have a rental car already.
Curt
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Nov 11, 2009 - 11:53pm PT
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Pat,
Any hope for Albuquerque?
I don't really have contacts here yet, but would be willing to try some leg work.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 12, 2009 - 12:13am PT
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"...Cool - Neptune's is walking distance from the house. Too bad Tuesdays are the only night of the week that I am in Denver teaching until 8:15pm. Hopefully you guys can post up some photos of the good time..."
Perfect. That should put you back in Boulder right about when we head out for the post-film beer.
Curt
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Nov 12, 2009 - 12:17am PT
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Bachar and I used to plan part of our summers around trying to Be Like Gill and do all of his problems. But Pat is right- we were late on the scene (early 70s) and so we never saw John G. in his prime.
JL
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 12, 2009 - 12:39am PT
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Largo,
I hear you. What "real" boulderer didn't try to do all of Gill's problems?
Curt
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2009 - 09:05am PT
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Certainly Largo and all the stonemasters were disciples of Gill,
in one sense or another, and as I said we all are if only that
we have been touched and influenced by Gill. The full list would be
a truly long one.
One of the greatest
moments of my bouldering career was when I made the second ascent
of Gill's "Acrobat Overhang," on Castle Rock. I was in my best shape
at that moment. Another was when Gill took me to a hidden area
of granite west of Horsetooth Reservoir and showed me a problem
he envisioned. I climbed it my first try. Those were short-lived
days, when I was at that level. Even the slightest injury, such as
when I tore the big tendon in my left middle finger, put an end to
doing things that hard. But I cherish the memory of our strolls through
Split Rocks, and visits to Estes Park (Gem Lake trail), our time on Flagstaff, at Horsetooth, and in Pueblo, like an apprentice artist
hanging with Da Vinci...
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Nov 12, 2009 - 09:21am PT
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very excited to see this patrick.
i'm certain you'll have a big
turn out in the reverse front
range.
just another distant
disciple---dino
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Robb
Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
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Nov 12, 2009 - 11:51am PT
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I was at the Gill boulders at Horse Tooth recently watching the next generation flail away at some of his classics and I realized after talking w/ some of them that they didn't even know that they were retreading on the ground of a giant.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 12, 2009 - 01:41pm PT
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That's interesting and I've seen the same thing lately. I think there are so many people getting into climbing these days (many introduced via climbing gyms) that the very idea of any historical perspective existing is pretty much lost.
Curt
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Nov 12, 2009 - 01:59pm PT
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yes stinkeye,
follow yer own dreams
and one day you may send
the blue tape problem.
standing on the shoulders
of giants.............
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Nov 12, 2009 - 02:00pm PT
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Oh I suck. I just went to write this on my calendar. I won't be teaching that day - it's Thanksgiving break. I'll be in Nashville. Darn. Oh man, I wish you guys had this any other week! I looked forward to meeting some of you I've known only online for years. Damn.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 12, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
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It's too bad that it only takes one insignificant as#@&%e like stinkeye to torpedo an otherwise good thread.
Curt
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Nov 12, 2009 - 02:33pm PT
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clearly your
mind never
left the gym.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2009 - 04:02pm PT
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Stinkeye, I wish you could meet John. You would find
him very caring and generous. He has always put others
before himself and would probably do the same for you.
He would appreciate your efforts and acknowledge your
achievements. It simply does not take away anything from
what you are about, your goals, your vision, your fine
abilities, and nor does it negate you in any way, for
a few people to remember and to look back with a little nostalgia
at a time that was important to them and significant to the
history of climbing. Sometimes I think newer climbers feel
threatened by such nostalgia, but perhaps one day you can
enjoy some of the same: i.e., let the years pass by and
find you want to look back and appreciate. Gill, least of all,
would ever imply his experience deserves more attention than
the experience of others. That's partly why we appreciate him
so much. He has not only been a master of rock but one of the
most humble individuals you could ever meet.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 12, 2009 - 04:08pm PT
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Well said, Pat. In addition, none of us are so "hard core" that we should feel above acknowledging truly significant contributions made by a relatively small number of genuine pioneers in our sport.
Curt
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 12, 2009 - 04:13pm PT
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stinky, i was still a "youngun" when i set my sights on repeating the routes of older climbers who were role models. watusi and i had only been climbing a couple of years when we set out to repeat all the bachar problems, particularly those at woodson. a year or so later ament's "master of rock" was published, and it had a huge influence on our bouldering.
if what you are suggesting is that many younger climbers have no interest in the historical context of the climbs they are attempting, well, i certainly won't hold it against them, as it will be their loss. but i do believe that understanding and appreciating the incredibly rich history of our craft adds a bonus dimension that just makes things that much more enjoyable and interesting and satisfying.
whatevs
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 09:09am PT
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Dylan now is a fully grown up man. Time flies.
That's in part what the film is about, how time
flies, yet how a small sub-culture of friends has
pretty much remained, no matter how their approach
to the art has changed...
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Evel
Trad climber
Slartibartfasts Newest Fjiord
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Nov 13, 2009 - 09:17am PT
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Hiyo Pat , Can't wait to see the film. Echo what Tar said, Calling all BoulderTacos!!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 13, 2009 - 10:56am PT
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is this thing gonna be released on dvd?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Nov 13, 2009 - 11:01am PT
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Sometimes I think newer climbers feel
threatened by such nostalgia, but perhaps one day you can
enjoy some of the same: i.e., let the years pass by and
find you want to look back and appreciate.
Beautifully put!
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Nov 13, 2009 - 11:05am PT
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stinkeye doesn't speak for me, nor does he speak of the majority of mid 20s climbers I know. Lots of people I know are very interested in the history.
The brother and I were most interested in the Gill problems at Vedauwoo, as well as the other 'historic' problems there...and went and seeked them out....
Hopefully I'll be able to see this film one day, though I don't think I'll be able to make the premier. Is it going to tour?
Cheers!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 13, 2009 - 12:46pm PT
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Practically every field I know has a collection of "radical know-nothings," people who are proud of their ignorance and who let no opportunity to proclaim and celebrate it go by. Their bold and deprecatory statements are often undercut by a sensitivity to implied criticism that borders on paranoia, causing them to attack forums that appreciate the knowledge they lack, even when the discussions involve no criticism, explicit or implied, of their chosen state of benightment.
But I see no particular evidence that this is an affliction of the young. Indeed, in the local politics where I live, the radical know-nothings are all retirees. And in the climbing gym I go to, where I could be the father of a large majority of the members and the grandfather of quite a few, I typically encounter a spontaneous and very enthusiastic interest in the past and how we got to where we are now. So I have to say that, at least from my admittedly narrow perspective, I see virtually no evidence that the "younger generation" (and there are five such generations from where I stand) is any more likely to embrace ignorance of their climbing roots than any other cohort of society.
It is also true, in any field, that as one gains in ability, experience and knowledge, interest increases in the broader outlines of the endeavor, rather than just the narrow focus of one's own efforts. The opportunity to put oneself in a broader human context, to understand how we fit in with the rest of our far-flung tribe, is one that we tend to appreciate more as our abilities mature (and I am not speaking here of decline!).
But speaking now of decline, it is also true that as one begins to discern the finish line through the fog ahead, there is a natural urge to look back at the course, to celebrate the physical and emotional high points, to reach out, after years of disconnection, to our fellow seekers with whom we shared so much. And certainly, in these tendencies to reminisce, there is the desire to have mattered, to have the sense that one will not simply vanish without a trace. And so comes a desire to create some kind of record for posterity and hope that it will be appreciated.
Should an aspiring young boulderer care that the problem they are working was created at the dawn of the age of bouldering in the U.S. by someone performing in solitude with no pads and no spotters, with shoes that would be viewed nowadays as barely acceptable for approaches? There are no "shoulds" in the climbing game. But I think Gill's problems are a kind of collective shrine, where generations of aspirants have come to measure themselves against a standard almost beyond the comprehension of Gill's contemporaries, and thereby to put their efforts in a human context beyond the ultimately vain and self-centered dimension of personal accomplishment.
Gill's abilities were prodigious. But his gift to us was his vision of the possible, or perhaps I should say his rejection of the impossible. No one, after Gill, could ever look at any problem, no matter how blank or overhanging, and not wonder whether there wasn't a way. And this attitude, which was not always a given, has provided an environment which has and continues to nurture the incredible efforts of today's contemporary climbers, who, whether they know it or not, are the beneficiaries of Gill's paradigm-changing achievements.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 13, 2009 - 12:55pm PT
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rgold, you so totally nailed it. nice.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 13, 2009 - 12:58pm PT
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Yeah rgold
That was an eloquent masterpiece .....
In early 70's I went with Bachar and Kauk to the Gill problems in Colorado.
All I could do is watch, as John and Ron tried these impossible looking things.
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Robb
Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
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Nov 13, 2009 - 01:07pm PT
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Eloquent to say the least.Kudos RG.
PS: I didn't mean my observation to in any way be a put down, if it was taken that way my apologies to you Stinkeye.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Nov 13, 2009 - 05:02pm PT
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When I was just getting underway out at Tahquitz about 200 years ago we were always stoked to do a Robbins route, or a Kamps route, or a route first done by Chouinard, Frost, Higgins, Wilts, and so forth.
None of us were ass kissers, and we weren't stoked for their sakes, but because WE felt special to be doing classic routes. Same thing when we started doing the Gill problems.
In other words, getting excited by those who came before never felt to dim our luster, but rather it made us shine even brighter, at least in our own minds. With a little perspective one can have the feeling of being part of something greater than themselves, and that's a big feeling to be sure.
JL
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Barry Bates
Boulder climber
Smith River CA
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Nov 13, 2009 - 06:03pm PT
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John
You almost took the words out of my mouth, after reading Rich's great piece.
I happened to think of the first time I did the Steck overhang on Columbia in Camp 4. I was in my early teens and I remember being overjoyed at finally getting up it; there was definitely an added mystique to the route because his name was on it.
Going bouldering at Horse Tooth or the Jenny Lake Boulders is like going to an art museum with a one man show of Jackson Pollacks; maybe you've seen them in history books, but the real thing is so much better than you imagined that you're thunder struck. They represent such a turning point in climbing that once word got out nothing was ever the same. I think history is an individual thing; some think it is "Bunk" and others are completely enthralled by it. I've always been one of the enthralled. But my guess would be that the "bunkers" enjoy the Gill areas just as much as I do.
Barry
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2009 - 07:27pm PT
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One good point Rich Goldstone makes in the film is that
lots of us have done Gill problems, in part because
many of his routes are/were nowhere near the upper limits of
his abilities. I've watched generation after generation
come along and try to prove themselves a little, or at least
try to measure themselves alongside Gill's ability,
through his routes, when in fact when he did some of these routes
he was suffering from climber's elbow or some other ailment,
a bad finger, a strained back.... Some of the
routes at Lost Canyon, for example, were just casual exercises
for him, chosen so as to be not hard enough to re-aggravate
some injury. They were relatively moderate for him. People would
repeat some of those routes and feel they had in some sense
equalled him. I took Patrick Edlinger to Ft. Collins right after
he had won at Snowbird, and I mean he was a fierce young new star,
but he wasn't as good as Gill, with Gill injured and in only
modest form. I once climbed a couple routes John took me to and
he had hoped to work on and do, and he was impressed, but I had no
illusions whatsoever about having equalled him much less surpassed in
any way. But he has always been so gracious and humble, he can
make you feel as though you really are in a league of your own. John
in fact is the only boulderer I have ever met who truly was in a
league all his own.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Nov 14, 2009 - 03:10pm PT
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Nice post Patrick.
Reminder Bump, since the 24th is coming up.
What's the weather like up there at the moment?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 14, 2009 - 05:39pm PT
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A thought about the place of history in the modern climbing context.
As we know, the climbing gym occupies a central position in determining new climbing generations. Nowadays, most young people are first exposed to climbing at a birthday party in a climbing gym, and many continue in the gym, perhaps getting involved in competitions if they have talent, for several years. So it is that attitudes towards the climbing for many people are likely to have been shaped by their formative experiences in the gym, even if they move on to one or several of the outdoor climbing genres.
Now this is not one of those old-fogy rants about climbing gyms. (I am an old fogy, but I have nothing against climbing gyms and try to get one once or twice a week as much as the rest of my life allows.) But here's the thing: there is no past in the climbing gym, there is only the present. Routes are taken down and changed (one hopes) on a regular basis. Even if Sharma came and sent a new blue route, it won't be around in a month or two, certainly not in a year or more.
And so there is no history and no concept of history in the gym. Climbers in the gym may be more socially connected than ever before, but the manifold ways in which---to allude to Newton---they stand on the shoulders of giants are completely outside their field of view, because the entire concept of historical debt is foreign to the indoor endeavor.
So perhaps it should not be surprising to find a bunch of young and talented boulderers out at Horsethief without a clue about how the problems got there and what they represent.
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Robb
Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
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Nov 14, 2009 - 05:40pm PT
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Hey Bruce
The weather is settling in here on the high plains of NoCo-the weather guessers say 6 to 12 inches in the next 24 hours. How's your weather?
RGold, well put.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2009 - 06:46pm PT
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I always appreciate your thoughts, Rich.
I have decided if the weather is bad in Boulder I will take
the train from Grand Junction to Denver and have someone
pick me up. That way I don't have to worry about getting there
over the two major passes in winter. No snow in Boulder should
keep anyone away. I sense lots of great people will be there,
Rearick, Holloway, Curt Shannon, possibly even Gill himself, let's
hope. It will be easy going and fun. Please let your friends know.
And start thinking about somewhere fun to go after the show.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 14, 2009 - 07:19pm PT
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Pat,
If that's what you decide to do--just let me know. My flight from Phoenix lands at around 11:30am and I was thinking about perhaps getting in a few problems on Flagstaff Mtn. with BobD in the afternoon (weather permitting) but I can definitely pick you up.
Curt
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Nov 14, 2009 - 07:51pm PT
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Robb, thanks for the update. It was gorgeous here in ABQ until the last couple days. Buggs and I were climbing in t-shirts and sweating a few days ago!
Dreary and sprinkling at the moment. I have an old military buddy who just arrived for a few days of climbing. Luckily it's supposed to get nice again on Monday!
Still wish I was gonna be there for the premiere!!
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:32pm PT
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When I was a teenager, I recall reading the book "Master of Rock, A lighthearted Walk Through the Life and Rock Climbing of John Gill". I was inspired and set out to find his problems. At that time I was residing in the Mid West. As I matured as a climber, boulderer I often reflected on the rock climbing accomplishments of his youth and the physical and mental prowess within that prime. I then arrived at his boulder problems in Colorado and forever remain inspired.
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:34pm PT
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Following in his footsteps.
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:36pm PT
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Getting honed in the quest
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:39pm PT
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Then there's Colorado, north
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:41pm PT
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And the Mental Block
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:44pm PT
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Then there's Colorado south
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:45pm PT
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And the Infamous Fatted Calf
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sunnyside
Big Wall climber
boulder
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Nov 14, 2009 - 11:54pm PT
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Thanks for the inspiration.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 15, 2009 - 12:40am PT
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Nice shots Sunnyside!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 15, 2009 - 01:17am PT
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yes. classic shots, even.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 15, 2009 - 02:01am PT
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Nice photos, Sunnyside. I also grew up in the midwest and have done all of the excellent Gill routes in your pics. Kudos to you.
Curt
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Nov 15, 2009 - 10:03am PT
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Great pix sunnyside!
We didn't have the money or the wheels (or the permission of our parents!)to take off and chase Gill's problems around.
What we did have in central Oregon back before the sport climbing revolution was Master Of Rock, lots of desire and a gazillion great boulders. We got pretty good pretty darn fast!
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2009 - 12:05pm PT
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It seems as though Master of Rock found its way to a lot
of different little corners of the world... I have
heard lots of people say that book changed their life
and have heard people say it alone changed climbing and
was one of the biggest contributors, if the not the biggest,
to the new age of super stars... Yet it never seemed to be
valued by "the establishment," the organizations of
mountaineers who didn't see bouldering as very important...
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Nov 15, 2009 - 02:01pm PT
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Pat...like Gill you were way ahead of the curve when you wrote Master of Rock...simply brilliant!
Thanks, Bob
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Nov 15, 2009 - 02:46pm PT
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"Yet it never seemed to be
valued by "the establishment," the organizations of
mountaineers who didn't see bouldering as very important... "
Pat,
it's a fair trade, since we often didn't place too much value on them either....
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE!!
Bruce
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 15, 2009 - 07:50pm PT
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Well, the establishment may be coming around.
The American Alpine Club has established the Robert and Miriam Underhill Award for outstanding mountaineering achievement. It is to be given annually to a person who, in the opinion of the selection committee, has demonstrated the highest level of skill in the mountaineering arts and who, through the application of this skill, courage, and perseverance, has achieved outstanding success in the various fields of mountaineering endeavor.
Recipients:
* JOHN GILL Awarded: 2008
* Carlos Buhler Awarded: 2007
* Henry Barber Awarded: 2006
* Mark Wilford Awarded: 2005
* Charlie Fowler Awarded: 2004
* Jay Smith Awarded: 2003
* Conrad Anker & Nancy Feagin Awarded: 2002
* Jim Bridwell Awarded: 2000
* Annie Whitehouse Awarded: 2000
* Jack Tackle Awarded: 1999
* Jim Donini Awarded: 1999
* Allen Steck Awarded: 1998
* Steven J. Swenson Awarded: 1997
* Greg Child Awarded: 1996
* Robyn Erbesfield Awarded: 1996
* Stewart Alexander (Alex) Lowe (Deceased) Awarded: 1995
* Alison Keith Osius Awarded: 1994
* Michael P. Kennedy Awarded: 1994
* Louis F. Reichardt Awarded: 1993
* Terrance Manbeck Mugs Stump (posthumously) (Deceased) Awarded: 1992
* Catherine Calhoun Grisson Awarded: 1991
* Peter Croft Awarded: 1991
* George Lowe Awarded: 1990
* Yvon Chouinard Awarded: 1989
* Paul Piana Awarded: 1988
* Todd Skinner Awarded: 1988
* Catherine M. Freer (posthumously) Awarded: 1987
* Jeff Lowe Awarded: 1986
* David Finlay Breashears Awarded: 1985
* Lynn Marie Hill Awarded: 1984
* John Roskelly Awarded: 1983
* John Bachar Awarded: 1983
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2009 - 09:17am PT
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Yes after thirty or some years they finally recognized
Gill. Better late than never. And indeed that is a good
list of worthy people, but how clear in my
mind are those that should be there, or in some similar list,
and have not been, Bob Kamps, Tom Higgins, Rich Goldstone,
Pete Cleveland, no Royal Robbins or Chuck Pratt? No Tom Frost?
No Glen Denny? No Jim Holloway? No Greg Lowe? Well I could go
on and on, and I realize everyone can't be named... but there
must be some kind of way to acknowlege all those who have done
so much. That was part of my motivation for my book Wizards
of Rock (which I hope to re-release one of these days with
revisions, updates, etc.).
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Nov 16, 2009 - 11:23am PT
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nice pix-- i'm getting crushed at work and can't write much (or scan much) right now.
when jim mccarthy became aac president, as part of his broader reform of the institution, he did reach out to gill. john later did a really good and (for many of us) important article on bouldering for the journal, as well. there just wasn't much widespread support in the greater climbing community for recognizing bouldering.
anyone who wants to spend some time at the aac archive can find john's membership application-- along with those from folks like ansel adams --right there in the file. pretty entertaining reading, watching john carefully enumerate his "routes" by difficulty and date.
pat's original edition of master of rock was one of my real sources of inspiration (along with, later, swaramandal and rock wise). the first version of master is still my favorite--
many folks today forget the alpine context and influence on gill's early climbing and bouldering. christian beckwith took a lot of flak for the bouldering special issue of alpinist, but i thought that his introduction to that issue was really smart and pretty much on the money.
i'm looking forward to pat's new film. sorry i can't get to the premiere.
cheers
kerwin
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2009 - 12:45pm PT
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Thanks Kerwin,
and I hope to set some shows up out your way. Let me
know what you think the best approach would be, with
regard to that.
And wow that's an interesting painting, or watercolor, or whatever
it is. I could almost imagine it as the cover of the new Wizards!
Pat
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Nov 17, 2009 - 10:03am PT
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Pat-- Two years ago, I could've set something up on campus really easily. Right now, we're in free fall, so off-campus would probably be easier.
Let me ask around.
Hope the leg's feeling better
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2009 - 12:36am PT
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Yes the leg is better, though still very sore.
The film has the whole ugly fall in it, seems to fit
that section where I talk about age and how some
of us old geezers approach the boulders now... Couldn't
have better timed my near demise.
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Robb
Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
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Nov 19, 2009 - 11:17am PT
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Glad to hear your leg's better Pat. Tuesday night still look like it's a go?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 19, 2009 - 11:39am PT
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A rerun, but it seems like it has a place here
Chris Raypole retreating from the 'Gill problem' in the Lower parking lot, Vedauwoo,
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 19, 2009 - 12:15pm PT
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Thanks for reposting the Raypole pic. That's a great problem, and it's a bit harder than it looks.
Curt
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2009 - 02:24pm PT
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Yes I'll be there tuesday. Nothing could keep me
away. Can't wait to meet with friends, old and new,
and just to have a good time. How about spaghetti at
the Gondolier afterward? Ahh, they're probably closed by
then. I'm hungry just thinking about it.
Make sure to tell your friends,
Pat
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Nov 22, 2009 - 12:26am PT
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Hey just realized---Tuesday is my birthday. Number 66, but who's counting? Sorry I can't be there (I get to celebrate with a full day of teaching) but sing a round of the bd song for auld lang syne eh? Have a blast!
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 22, 2009 - 02:03am PT
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Hey Rich,
Happy Birthday and sorry we couldn't connect in the Gunks last month.
Curt
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2009 - 10:52pm PT
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Nice day to have the show, on the birthday of
one of the true disciples of Gill, Richard Goldstone.
You are in the film and very much a part of it.
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Robb
Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
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Nov 25, 2009 - 02:00am PT
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Bump for an excellent piece of work! Thanks Pat!!!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Nov 25, 2009 - 10:51am PT
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Wonderful show last night Pat. The film was great. Well done and thanks again for having the vision to see the greatness that is John Gill.
It was also great to spend the afternoon with Curt, your daughter and you at Flagstaff.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Nov 25, 2009 - 11:25am PT
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This little film is a real treasure!
I daresay it constitutes a milestone in our lives as climbers.
Here we see a wonderful confluence of elements: word, music, song, precious oral histories, still pictures, delightful archival footage, all book ended with the whimsical musings of Pat and his daughter on rock.
Such an important and lovely effort put forth toward the safekeeping of our collective memory.
Thank you Pat Ament.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Nov 25, 2009 - 12:26pm PT
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Perfect show, perfect movie Pat. Thanks for having the vision and taking the time to memorialize and honor this little slice of our world. It was great to see the "crew" there. Rearick, Holloway, Sherman, D'Antonio and more. There was a lot of history in that room. Fun to catch up with Holloway. He and Jim Michaels used to come up to Horsetooth in the 70's and lay waste to our boulder problems. Hope you and Anna slept well last night and that you found some useful food on the counter. Send me an email with your contact info.
Best,
Mal
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Nov 25, 2009 - 01:58pm PT
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I just landed back in Phoenix. Great film, Pat. You've managed to capture an important piece of climbing history--in a way that would not be possible for someone who was not actually there at the time. Nice job.
Curt
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 25, 2009 - 10:13pm PT
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Talk to the North Face or Feathered Friends about coming to Seattle. I would love to check it out! Are you planning on selling DVD's at least?
Cheers and congratulations on the premiere!
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2009 - 12:02am PT
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I will sell DVD's after I tour with it for a time.
Please let me know, anyone, if you would like to pull together a
show or two in your area. I'm trying to design a tour
route, as I speak, and things have started to develop.
Based on the reaction at Neptune's,
you won't have to worry about it being a good time.
I am so grateful for the love I felt last night, the astute
crowd, and how much everyone appreciated the film. The
comments above are deeply appreciated, believe me, and come
from very special people.
Pat
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2009 - 03:12pm PT
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Thank you Bob, Malcolm, Roy, Curt, Jan, Rob, and all who have
commented and shared kind thoughts. I am grateful to know so many
great and good spirits. It is so very gratifying when an audience
is so the measure of the art, when they get it, so to speak.
I am heartened, to say the least, and look forward to showing the
film again, now with the latest little improvements.
Pat
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Wow, I can't wait to see this thing!
I'm inspired to see the comments of some of our informal leaders here.
Such positive and encouraging comments, it must have been a wonderful time Pat.
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Cool film!
And really nice to see you again, Curt! I didn't want to crash the party by asking about what was up for drinks, but if you're ever in the neighborhood again, look me up, would be great to catch up over a scotch or two.
Cheers!
GO
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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How big was the place and how many people did you cram in there?
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Robb
Social climber
The Greeley Triangle
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Prolly 'bout 60'square & I'd say 50 to 70. Made us jar passer's sit in the back row.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2009 - 11:22pm PT
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Neptune holds about 200 chairs and then room for standing,
and there were lots of people standing. It was a full house
for sure. People said it was a good thing it was Thanksgiving
week, because we might have had twice that crowd and had people
watching through the windows... No one passed any jar or can
of which I was aware... They
were generous enough at the door...
Thank you, Curt. You'll have to tell me about your trip to
Japan. That's the one place I still wish I could go. Oddly
I had Master of Rock published in Japanese way back when. They
did a nice job. I love those little characters and that fine,
smooth paper...
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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There's a collectors item eh?!
Wow, 200, congratulations Pat!
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 4, 2009 - 06:11pm PT
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Well, Gary Neptune said it was about the first time
anyone had used up all the chairs. It's not a big crowd,
as crowds go. I've had crowds over a thousand at certain
times in the past, once in Salt Lake had more than a
thousand, and two thousand at least in England on two
separate occasions. Lots of times big crowds. But it's the quality
of crowd that matters. When Frost and I toured one year
through the western states we enjoyed the small, intimate
crowds as much as the big ones.
What I liked about the Boulder crowd is that they were the
measure of the art. They were astute and generous and open,
and thus they were moved and appreciative. That's all and more
than any filmmaker can hope for. I am grateful.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Speaking about climbing in Boulder must be like playing hockey at the Forum in Montreal. The crowd there is very well versed in hockey, and has been known to boo the home team for poor or unsportsmanlike play, and to cheer the visiting team for fine play.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2009 - 06:09pm PT
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Yes, that's exactly right. And that's why I knew if
I did something dumb I'd be in pretty immediate trouble
there. One good thing I learned is that a number of people
attended who were not climbers at all, just regular folk,
and they loved the film. So I think it must work with climbers
and non-climbers alike. That's what I hoped for and wanted.
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MisterE
Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
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Got this book in 1991, and it changed my approach to climbing
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