Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
|
A hardman is one willing to pay the price to get the climb done right.
Mouse thinks the way I do. It bothers me that so many people on this thread seem to disrespect climbing that differs from what they like to do. Any hard climb takes both training and ability, whether it's a fierce sport problem or a daunting trad lead. One of the things I always understood about ratings was that they were not necessarily interchangeable between types of climbing. Doing a 5.x sport climb didn't mean one could do a 5.x OW or vice versa, and the skill needed to climb 5.x on solid granite differs from that needed to climb 5.x on choss.
My own 45 years of climbing confirms Largo's observation -- that most climbers don't pay the price to do 5.11 in all its various types. If there are thousands that can do so, it's only because there's millions that now have at least "tried" climbing.
John
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 02:03pm PT
|
We were just trying to make it up stuff on sight...
Seems like that hasn't been the general objective in climbing for quite some time.
Ummm, only seems like that if you don't pay attention to "hot flash" type climbing news that is widely reported on the Internetz. Hard on-sights/flashes are commonly reported.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
|
Ummm, only seems like that if you don't pay attention to "hot flash" type climbing news that is widely reported on the Internetz. Hard on-sights/flashes are commonly reported.
Well, that accounts for 0.03 percent of the demographic. What I see every time I go climbing is people 'working' climbs with sport tactics whether they are climbing sport or trad. The emphasis appears to be pretty much entirely focused on 'redpointing' versus onsights for the overwhelming majority of today's demographic.
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 03:13pm PT
|
Hmm, well we see what we see. I also see many if not most sport climbers doing more redpointing that onsighting, and that's what I do more of also, although I still think it's very common to try hard for an onsight at the appropriate grade.
Most trad climbing I see is onsightinng, but maybe this varies on where you are, and maybe I'm making some assumptions and actually lots of people are "redpointing" that 5.6 or 5.7 and not onsighting!
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
|
You're onto something Largo. I would also say that the number of climbers who can onsight any type of 5.10, anytime, anywhere is in the lower single digits precentage wise.
|
|
steve shea
climber
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 04:55pm PT
|
JL I was with Henry and Pat Adams on the FFA of Dean's Day Off. Henry led it on sight, barefoot, using #1 stoppers, hand placed rurps and crack n' ups! Now that was a display of rockclimbing. We called it 5.12 back then but certainly did not think of ourselves as 5.12 climbers. It was an anomaly. Everything was some level of 5.10. Had few 5.11's. We could only get a feel for grades on our annual pilgimages to the Valley, Boulder, Estes etc to see if we could get up the stuff. I call it provincial thinking. We in the backwaters of American climbing in the 70's could not possibly measure up, we can't climb that stuff. But relative to our local area 5.10's were 5.10's. The best thing about those days on Independence was getting the strength to hang on to learn to place pro. I think we had about six bolts on the Pass in those days. I'm getting old and curmudgeonly I suppose cause to me it's a crying shame that so many lines got bolted and retro bolted which could have been done with vision and balls.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
|
I would also say that the number of climbers who can onsight any type of 5.10, anytime, anywhere is in the lower single digits precentage wise.
I'd be surprised if 0.1% of climbers - one in a thousand - can do so.
|
|
Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area , California
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 06:04pm PT
|
Werner told me once that they are 5.8s in the valley that if you take fall, it could be fatal.
|
|
Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 06:36pm PT
|
I know a lot of climbers around the Eastside who regularly climb 5.11 + in the mountains. I have. Once.
Around here we train hard at the boulders or the Gorge in the winter and go crush in the mountains in the summer.
Granted Bishop does not represent a normal cross section of climbers.
|
|
tarek
climber
berkeley
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 06:45pm PT
|
Not so complicated.
Few climbers can walk up to Astroman and onsight it. But some do, and some have done, for decades. I know a Catalan sport climber who got the flash, at least. Maybe that'll have a few people here gnashing their teeth. Heh.
Take a climb like U-Wall. I read here that Coz onsighted it. Has to be pretty damn rare. Canucks?
Stacks of climbers onsight 12a-12c sport, but generally on routes that are forgiving of errors. Technical climbs, whether crack or face, tend not to be forgiving of errors and those compound quickly. Routes rated by pump factor are more easily done--many sport climbs happen to fit this category.
In contrast to valley classics like TZ, flash ascents of Midnight Lightning are pretty common. I can think of 3 by not-famous climbers. Fair to say that few climbers today are well-rounded, in the sense that they can stack multiple pitches in the 11s on any type of rock, to climb a whole line. There are exceptions, of course.
|
|
Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 07:24pm PT
|
Do all those climbers on-sight 5.11+ off widths, run slabs, squeezes, flares, etc?
If so, that's proud.
Like I said Bishop is not your average set of over the hill trad daddies or sport jocks.
There are a lot of very well rounded mutants here per capita.
Of which I am not one.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 10:10pm PT
|
only a few folks have mentioned that if you are a true (say) 5.9 climber. that damn well ought to mean that a little 5.9x doesnt through you of of your game too bad.
there are way too ma climbers today that climb 5.12, who will absolutely freak when it gets scary.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 11:12pm PT
|
Who gives a flying f*#k if you can onsight or whatever. The only thing that really counts is if you can get the rope up it one way or annother without getting hurt and that you have a great day with good company and everyone gets home safe. I am way more impressed with the leader who is smart enough to grab the sling to make a sketchy clip than with the bonehead who try's to impress, blows the clip and ruins my day with a rescue..... Too much Bravado on this thread... Climb and have fun. if you have to grab gear or take a rest hang before the scary section that is just fine. The ONLY time getting it clean is of any real importance is the FFA. There is ZERO bonus points for getting hurt on something that has already been climbed....
|
|
splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 11:20pm PT
|
@^^^ yea, i suppose that being an alive hangdog vs a dead badass (or an attempt to look like one) has its benefits...
|
|
Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
|
|
|
Aug 21, 2012 - 11:28pm PT
|
Agreed.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Aug 22, 2012 - 06:57am PT
|
If I am on something big I am all about Alpine Rules! The last f*#king thing on the planet that I am concerned with is what my partner says is their onsight grade. What does concern me is if they have a cool enough head and are not drivin by ego and some stupid set of free climbing rules. In fact I might get a bit short with them if they waste time trying to free something on a big route. Be smooth and safe,keep the rope moveing up and I am a happy camper. There is a time and place for trying to free something but at the end of the day it is better to come home safe. You can always go back and give it annother try on a day when you feel stronger but you have to make it home in one piece this time to have that second chance. Heck I am not going on a big trip with a stranger anyways so the whole what is your onsight grade 20 questions BS is just that. BS. the question that I will ask is what do you feel like doing today?
|
|
mountainlion
Trad climber
California
|
|
|
Aug 22, 2012 - 07:22am PT
|
I think this is a very valuable question for multipitch because it speaks of your total experience. From route finding, confident lead head, knowing how to read the clouds for weather, judging when it will be dark, epic scenarios, etc. a person that is as solid as Largo describes has probably dealt with all of this and more. I myself have strength & weaknesses so by this scale I'm a 5.8 onsight climber anytime, anystyle, anywhere and I'm damned proud of it--it has taken a lot of blood sweeat & tears not to mention $$$$
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
|
|
|
Aug 22, 2012 - 09:22am PT
|
I don't care what a person says they can do, only that they're not going to totally choke on the route they're climbing with me.
|
|
Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
|
|
|
Aug 22, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
|
I made the mistake of going to climb Positive Vibration on the Hulk with a guy who assured me he was a badass. Ended up getting his foot stuck in a 5.9 crack and freaking the f*#k out. Then started making excuses as to why we should bail from halfway up the route. The bag of pizza he brought along as his only food for the weekend should have been a tip off.
Wasted trip.
|
|
sethsquatch76
Trad climber
Joshua tree ca
|
|
|
Aug 22, 2012 - 12:22pm PT
|
Bobby Jenson, animal!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!