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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nov 14, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
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Those big government liberals have been at it since the beginning!
Of course. There certainly weren't any conservatives drawing up the Constitution. They'd all fled to Canada, having fought for the king and all.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 14, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
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One photo from today's news conference says it all.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Nov 14, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
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^^^ Was just told his every other day round of golf was nixed from the schedule due to this pesky health care failure thingy
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Nov 14, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
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^^^ because he F'd it up.
If a CEO helps develop and implement a sweeping new "plan" in a Fortune 500 company and it FAILS, he is ultimately accountable. Oh wait a minute, no he is not. He can just blame, back stab and fire his minions.
Somehow, I think this is how it will play out with our govt.
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Nov 14, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
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Your problem, TE, is that you jump on excerpts without understanding the principles or verbiage you are quoting.
And your problem is that you reference such documents, claiming, but never actually explaining how they support your view. You arrive at a selective summary for your views, neatly omitting key points, for example that Federalist 10 was explicitly more concerned about those factions who would skew the playing field in their own favor, not those who would level the playing field for others.
And, as just pointed out, your interpretation is wrong, as determined by the mechanism enshrined for determining such things.
TE
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 14, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
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If a captain has the lifejackets filled with cement, his assurance that “you can keep your lifejacket” is only half the crime. Obama knew the lifejackets wouldn’t work. In 2010 he admitted that 8 to 9 million people in the individual market might “have to change their coverage” because of the law. And that’s just the individual market. Millions more will eventually lose the insurance they like because of Obamacare, according to the administration’s own internal estimates.
The cancellations aren’t a bug, they’re a feature, and the president lied about it over and over again.
Al Jazeera America interviewed one of Colorado’s exchange navigators a month after the debut. When asked how many people she had signed up, she replied, “So far, no one. Thus far everybody has taken a look at the rates and they’ve walked out the door. There’s sticker shock. They just can’t afford it.”
For years we’ve been told that Democrats were more “reality-based,” that “facts have a liberal bias,” in the words of Paul Krugman, and that if they could just have their way, they could fix all of our problems. No one represented this arrogant promise more than Barack Obama himself. But, with an irony so rich it would be made of Corinthian leather if it was a car seat, the only way he could get his signature legislation passed was to baldly and brazenly lie about it, over and over and over again. He created a rhetorical cloud castle where no one would lose his insurance, every family would save thousands of dollars, and millions of the uninsured would suddenly get coverage. Anyone who doubted this was called a fool or a liar, or even a racist. It was, in the parlance of liberalism, a “false choice” to assert that Obamacare couldn’t be a floor wax and a dessert topping.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/363907/obamacare-schadenfreudarama-jonah-goldberg
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
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but he didnt f*#k up...
aside from implimenting exactly what the gop minority told him to THEN taking the blame for the monkey wrenches THEY dropped into the works...
Yep this is the Republicans fault LOL
Im not a Republican but that is funny. Yes poor innocent Obama did not know..
Hey I have a bridge for sale. You interested. Monthly premiums/payments are AFFORDABLE
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
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rSin, that article is full of lies and errors.
How can you even begin to blame it on the GOP when not one single Republican voted for it in either the House or the Senate? Hmmm?
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:58pm PT
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How The President Plans To Fix Obamacare
Responding to his administration’s ongoing struggles with the launch of Obamacare, President Barack Obama announced a proposal today that would enable insurance companies to grant one-year extensions to the health plans of Americans who would otherwise face cancellation. Here are some of Obama’s other plans to fix the troubled rollout of his signature health care law:
Replacing glitchy healthcare.gov website with a convenient in-person enrollment kiosk located in Washington, D.C.
Enrollees allowed to keep preexisting medical conditions
Customers will no longer be automatically opted in to the weekly newsletter “Talkin’ Premiums” when they purchase insurance on the exchange
Allowing enrollees choice of whether to stay with their current doctor or go with well-regarded Minneapolis-area general practitioner Dr. Joel Glochowsky
Losing the semicolon in Chapter V, section 5, clause B
As a preventive measure, each American receives free raw steak to reduce swelling on shiners
Meeting insurance companies halfway by letting them cancel health care plans for only the sickest patients
Obama agrees to preface all future health care updates with statement, “This thing is a hell of a mess”
Eliminates requirement for every enrollee to contract terminal disease
Offering easy-to-follow instructions on how to snap your own neck in the event that you are diagnosed with cancer and lost your insurance
Changing website background to blue
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Nov 14, 2013 - 11:59pm PT
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Shack, this was the plan they've wanted for years. Why didn't they vote for it? Because they hate America.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Nov 15, 2013 - 12:01am PT
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Don't forget they RAYCESS too!
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Nov 15, 2013 - 12:20am PT
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Really Gary? Who is they? Can you show me where Republicans had proposed a complete government take over of health insurance like this before?
and if that is true, why didn't they vote for it now?
Answer: because they knew Obamacare would never work and it is nothing like any of the health insurance reforms that the GOP is in favor of.
The government can't run anything efficiently and you think that now that we've added a whole other layer of bureaucracy, involved the IRS, spend billions on websites, and added stacks of regs and legal hoops to jump through....you think that is going to somehow equal lower costs and better healthcare? Hahahahaha!
For who? Some tiny fraction of society? Meanwhile many more people will be without insurance than before Obamacare.
edit: Ok, Gary, trying to follow your pretzel logic..
so they didn't vote for it now because they hate America right?
So, then why would they ever have had a plan of their own,like Obamacare, if as you say they hate America? Because clearly you think Obamacare is great for America, so why would the evil "they" that hate America be in favor of such a "good for America" health insurance plan?
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Nov 15, 2013 - 12:39am PT
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and it wasn't the insurance companies that dropped these people out of the evilness of their corporate souls...
The law said that insurance plans were grandfathered in as long as the plan didn't change...(that's the part Obama forgot to mention 29+ times)
However, after the Supreme Court ruling was done and they began to write the thousands of pages of regs to actually try to implement the law, they made a rule that said all policies had to have certain changes in the language etc.
so a couple years ago, all insurance companies had to change those policies to conform to the new regs...
As soon as they did that, those policies were no longer allowed to be grandfathered in...because they had changed.
What a load of crap to claim they didn't know that would happen.
Everybody that didn't fall for B.O.'s BS knew it was a lie.
Don't believe me? ask any insurance agent.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Nov 15, 2013 - 01:38am PT
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yeah, and meanwhile Obamacare actually penalizes and fines hospitals that provide free health care to those without insurance.
Must be because Democrats hate America.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 15, 2013 - 03:14am PT
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Don't believe me? ask any insurance agent.
unlike the President, an insurance agent would never lie.
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Degaine
climber
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Nov 15, 2013 - 03:53am PT
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j.shiloh wrote:
The first question which everyone needs to ask themselves is this: "Is basic healthcare a fundamental human right within our society."
That doesn't have to be the first question.
You could ask, "What makes the most economic sense for the country?" And you'll come up with universal healthcare every time.
Or you could ask, "What system is most cost effective?" Again, the answer you'll come up with every time is universal healthcare.
If the Republicans really were really the party party of "economic and financial savvy and responsibility," they would have put their money where their mouth is long ago and pushed for some form of universal healthcare system (and even price controls on procedures and drugs). It just makes business and economic sense: a healthy workforce, a mobile workforce, a healthcare cost burden per capita cut in half or by two-thirds.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 15, 2013 - 05:30am PT
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You could ask, "What makes the most economic sense for the country?" And you'll come up with universal healthcare every time.
No, but you will. That aside, Shiloh asks the right questions, and, of course, offers the correct solutions, since he agrees with me.
;-)
John
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Degaine
climber
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Nov 15, 2013 - 06:58am PT
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Hey John,
Could you for once put ideology aside and just look at the data?
Outcomes
Cost
Benefit
Etc.
You'll see that universal healthcare systems in first world countries win hands down every single time. Japan, France, Germany, Switzerland, the list goes on and on.
Notice, I didn't write single payer, I wrote universal.
I also did not write that j.shiloh was asking the wrong questions. But "what's right" does not seem to be very important to the Republicans in power at a national or state level these days.
Just look at Detroit. The big three moved factories across the bridge into Canada because the healthcare costs were just way too high. Big business moved its business to a country with a universal healthcare system (and in this case a single payer).
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 15, 2013 - 10:02am PT
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What a mess.
last four years he's going big!
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