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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Take a deep breath and calm down, Blu. No one is running anyone off the thread. There is no sheriff. I just thought that those whose interest is in debating various religions might find a more focused interest on a thread devoted to that rather than one titled "Science vs Religion"
And I did post on the old thread.
If you want to bring people to Jesus on this thread you need no one's permission. Go for it.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Who here among us has had or not had multiple changes in their philosophies, religion, belief system, or type of scientific understanding of the world throughout their lifetime?
With regard to religion, I have been of exactly the same mind since I was twelve when I realized the whole notion of god defied rational thought and my general 'philosophies' were pretty well setup by the end of my twenties. Science on the other hand is continuously churning and bubbling up new ideas so I don't really think of it as an understanding of mine so much as of ours.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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I'm gonna ignore that...No, Ha Ha!
Thanks, Drool.
Funny, I threw away my religion...
at twelve also, Healyje.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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'My Bitter Pill, or, The Downside to Being an Asshole & Pissing Yourself Off'
Go ahead and give me a piece of advice,
Don't expect me to listen and don't tell me twice,
About all your knowledge and you've paid the price,
From learning the hard way and playing it nice,
I'm not out in the parking lot smoking a joint,
It ain't my high brow that you need to anoint,
So spare me the details and get to the point,
You don't see me that often so don't be a pain,
And cut to the chase if you're truly a friend,
To voice your opinion there's no need to defend,
And be brutally honest without fear to offend,
I've been tutored before and I've tried to impart,
Of the things that we learn before we all must depart,
Who's to say who is stupid and who's truly that smart,
When what we think and believe can be easily torn apart,
In a world that is crazy it's hard to find silk,
Where the criminals run wild and the same with their ilk,
Where the only true sweetness was in our mother's milk,
So lecture me harshly if lecture you will,
And judge me unkindly until I've had my fill,
Though the power of words have the power to kill,
But the truth though unkind might be my bitter pill,
-bushman
Jun 1, 2015
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I agree wholeheartedly! (to your 10:28 post)
I'm a journeyman of 30+ yrs in my trade and I still went out today with anticipation and hopes of LEARNING something new, just like everyday prior. I have been given the title Forman many times, but always end up relinquishing the position. Being the Forman your expected to KNOW something, and I would always have 5 answers to one question. Lately I've been refreshed in teaching science and coaching baseball at my child's elementary school. There's not much ego gettin waved around when one is in the learning mode. I think that's why I have such a good repore with kids. Or anyone comein up in the ranks of what I've already experienced,learned. Having a heart to teach requires ears that listen. You can present some information, but then you must listen to each pupils feedback to determine their position. Otherwise you won't understand their experience.. IMO.
in the 4-5yrs I've posted here, I think it safe to say I've learned more about science than anybody has learned about religion. And I thank those of you for the help, and the links.
Go-b got chased off for nothing more than posting bible quotes. I've been a bit more rebellious towards all the mis information being posted about the bible, and I've offered my point of view on certain verses when brought up, and what the bible done for me. But I've NEVER tried to CONVERT anyone into believing the bible. I understand the bible enough to know I haven't the ability to do so! That's between you and God!!
What I do know, is learning is equal to zero when you start from a point that is a lie
Cheers all!
Carry on
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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"I've forgotten more about the bible than I ever knew."
-bushman
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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I had something already made up to MH2, but then I read your post, DMT.
Sorry about the writing style. I don’t know what to say about that. Of course, I can do better.
I appreciate your style in your response. You’re a big man.
We’re good.
(Some good lines there, Bushman!)
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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With regard to religion, I have been of exactly the same mind since I was twelve when I realized the whole notion of god defied rational thought and my general 'philosophies' were pretty well setup by the end of my twenties.
The problem is the notion of God doesn't defy rational thought. How can it? The rational arguments for God are never ending depending on how the term God is defined, but here what you call irrational is wholly undefined. What kind of a philosophy is based on completely idiosyncratic unsharable systems of thought then set up as inviable unchanging certainty?
A single definition of God only begs further definitions and a single position of mind is no doubt unscientific.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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'Dream Tank'
Tun tuh tun tuh tun tuh tuh tuh!
The motor coaches were stuck in another river crossing,
The extras trotted out their tired Star Trek jokes on the Star Trek cast members again,
The rental car was wrong so we were back at the rental agency but they were out of other cars,
It would be another four hour wait,
Their office stank of cigarettes and cheap perfume and the tall young receptionist to her coworker said,
"You gotta stay constantly busy here,
That way it looks like they can't afford to fire you,"
Tun tuh tun tuh tun tuh tuh tuh!
There went that blasted music again as I woke from an anxious dream,
The late night hangover from cookie carbs and stifled heat washed over me,
I stumbled from the motel bed,
Just outside the Washington state line a sign advertised a buffet breakfast,
With the stifling heat I'm thinkin' barfet instead,
I stumbled to take a leak and then opened the window,
There's the three am air off the pines and I can breathe again,
Then lie me down to sleep but,
Tun tuh tun tuh tun tuh tuh tuh!
There goes that two bit Star Trek series action scene music again,
I give up sleep and reach out for my glasses and phone to write,
And her the sleeping beauty best not to wake lying next to me,
There go the sounds of the moany moan tires on the highway,
And the anxious sounds of inquietude,
And of America in her night.
-bushman
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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Healyje,
Please take no offense from when I referred to you earlier as Mr. Healyje.
I do not know your gender.
Mine is decidedly idiot male.
-b
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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To respond to Bushman's top post
I changed, I was a New Age Spiritualist/Zen/scientist believer in God
and a God/Spiritual dimension that was able to influence humans, guide evolution and provided a purpose of life, the hope of an afterlife/reincarnation.
from the late 70s to the early 90s.
I studied the New Age literature and old classics, and my goal was to prove that this spiritual dimension existed scientifically.
The problem was that I wasn't being challenged from the outside, no one came up to me and said that it's "crazy talk", your whole premise has zero scientific value, all you need to do is read the Proper Real Scientific Literature....not the Speculative Biased pseudo science....
It happened slowly, I tried to compromise that God may be more deist in nature, but what about the afterlife/reincarnation?
Once you realize that there is no afterlife, that it's nothing more than manmade's highest hope for a prize, and it is completely impossible for it somehow work.
No afterlife = no purpose of life
no purpose of life = no God
Why have a God in the first place?
It just complicates the nature of reality, there is no need of a God for any apparent reason, if there is no need for a God, it would just make sense that there is no god.
What literature you ask?
Skeptical literature, which is the science of proving pseudo science as bunk.
There is a $1,000,000 prize available to any one that can demonstrate under completely open conditions ANY psychic/teleportation/card reading or any other miracle, god influence/afterlife/talking to spirits type thing.
This has been an open invitation for 20 years now, not one person has passed it, and most don't even try because they know it only exists in their mind and can not be reproduced at will, or they are a fraud.
your mind can convince you that what it thinks is true, the only way to escape your belief's is to have them challenged, and for you to accept the outcome of the challenge when you are wrong.
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Norton
Social climber
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Go-b got chased off for nothing more than posting bible quotes
That is simply not true at all.
Go-be was welcomed and posted as often as he wanted to.
IF he left the forum it was because he wanted to, no one "ran him off".
As I have said a number of times, I like Goby.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Gobee might have left in discouragement after realizing that converting educated people by simply quoting scripture to them almost never works. As healeyje remarked, the problem is that you have to first accept that God wrote those scriptures rather than wise (or sometimes not so wise, and very unkind men) and most modern people with a cross cultural perspective can't do that.
While following the ten commandments and the teachings of Jesus will certainly lead to an orderly and satisfying life, anyone can do that without accepting the whole package with all its blood lust and vengeance, let alone any particular dogmatic interpretation of it.
Then again, Gobee had an infant grand daughter with serious heart problems and many surgeries ahead of her and could well have thought that was a better use of time.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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Chick fights get me hot!
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jstan
climber
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Damn! Another thread bites the dust.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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'Lola Falana McGuire'
As I stood at the edge with my heart all afire,
Beholding the object of my rapt desire,
Feeling so carefree that I might expire,
That only such beauty as hers would inspire,
And after all knowing that you might inquire,
Her name it was Lola Falana McGuire,
In the end I was left with more than just desire,
An affliction that burned like a funeral pyre,
Infecting my nethers I won't be a liar,
All thanks to my Lola Falana McGuire,
-bushman
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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The problem is the notion of Zeus doesn't defy rational thought. How can it? The rational arguments for Zeus are never ending depending on how the term Zeus is defined, but here what you call irrational is wholly undefined. What kind of a philosophy is based on completely idiosyncratic unsharable systems of thought then set up as inviable unchanging certainty? A single definition of Zeus only begs further definitions and a single position of mind is no doubt unscientific.
Zeus, Anunnaki, Yeti, UFOs, ghosts, the Tooth Fairy - substitute at your leisure, the results are the same no matter how many believers subscribe to a particular fantasy.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^ how about a little tid-bit of one of your fantasy's? Or a nugget of wisdom.
What's a hope or dream you have for this ongoing world?
You have such a wealth of intelligence and experience, you must certainly have visions of where we're going. Or comin from?
I'd love to hear everybody start something, instead of jus always finishing what Lago starts ; )
Do you think something like Mercury being in Retrograde can affect the force's on earth?
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