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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Sep 10, 2014 - 04:42pm PT
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chiloe, no, i meant the pnas homepage. i've been regularly linking pieces from there in other threads, but realized now that no one w/o an institutional sub can probably access them. otherwise nutjob would've already seen the pnas explication of its review process.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2014 - 04:44pm PT
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Ah, yes, that trips me up sometimes too.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Sep 10, 2014 - 05:08pm PT
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Chiloe...difficult to explain diamond xenocrysts & garnet-peridotite xeonliths in kimberlite pipes without a deep (150 to 450 km depth) mantle source.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v481/n7381/full/nature10740.html
Kimberlite ascent by assimilation-fuelled buoyancy
Nature 481, 352–356 (19 January 2012) doi:10.1038/nature10740
Received 29 July 2011 Accepted 28 November 2011 Published online 18 January 2012
Kimberlite magmas have the deepest origin of all terrestrial magmas and are exclusively associated with cratons1, 2, 3. During ascent, they travel through about 150 kilometres of cratonic mantle lithosphere and entrain seemingly prohibitive loads (more than 25 per cent by volume) of mantle-derived xenoliths and xenocrysts (including diamond)4, 5. Kimberlite magmas also reputedly have higher ascent rates6, 7, 8, 9 than other xenolith-bearing magmas10, 11. Exsolution of dissolved volatiles (carbon dioxide and water) is thought to be essential to provide sufficient buoyancy for the rapid ascent of these dense, crystal-rich magmas. The cause and nature of such exsolution, however, remains elusive and is rarely specified6, 9. Here we use a series of high-temperature experiments to demonstrate a mechanism for the spontaneous, efficient and continuous production of this volatile phase. This mechanism requires parental melts of kimberlite to originate as carbonatite-like melts. In transit through the mantle lithosphere, these silica-undersaturated melts assimilate mantle minerals, especially orthopyroxene, driving the melt to more silicic compositions, and causing a marked drop in carbon dioxide solubility. The solubility drop manifests itself immediately in a continuous and vigorous exsolution of a fluid phase, thereby reducing magma density, increasing buoyancy, and driving the rapid and accelerating ascent of the increasingly kimberlitic magma. Our model provides an explanation for continuous ascent of magmas laden with high volumes of dense mantle cargo, an explanation for the chemical diversity of kimberlite, and a connection between kimberlites and cratons.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Sep 10, 2014 - 05:33pm PT
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Chiloe: so now that I've read more of this thread, your questioning whether there is any evidence of magma that originates in the lower mantle (below 660 km)? correct?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2014 - 05:52pm PT
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Chiloe: so now that I've read more of this thread, your questioning whether there is any evidence of magma that originates in the lower mantle (below 660 km)? correct?
Yes, I think that's it. To be clear, I'm not an originator of these ideas, just a reader with keen interest.
The basic argument is that sinking slabs are plated down above the 660km discontinuity, displacing warmer mantle as they descend. Little if any material crosses this discontinuity; whole-mantle convection or deep plumes don't exist. The great eruptions of large igneous provinces (LIPs), traditionally explained as something like a flattened plume head breaking the surface, instead arise from the fact that mantle can be quite warm below its insulating lid, so large amounts of melt can accumulate at relatively shallow depths, and erupt with a release of pressure from above.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2014 - 06:44pm PT
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Got perovskite?
Hirose et al. suggest a phase transition from perovskite might help explain the 660km seismic discontinuity. I've seen that idea mentioned in some of the anti-plume papers too.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Sep 10, 2014 - 09:21pm PT
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Chiloe: just read the Anderson & Natland paper. The high resolution 3D Vs tomography supports large-scale, mushroom-like thermal anomalies beneath spreading ridges & "hot spots" rather than narrow, sheet- or pipe-like features.
Still not sure how this model explains kimberlite pipes, diamonds, perovskite, etc. I guess kimberlite pipes are associated with continental interiors; whereas, this paper is dealing with the mantle beneath oceanic crust.
Anyway, thanks for posting this thread.
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thebravecowboy
climber
strugglin' to make time to climb
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Sep 10, 2014 - 09:43pm PT
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like I need any additions to my reading list right now besides issue #32 of rock and ice. thanks for nothing [sarcasm]
once in a blue moon, this place is serendipity incarnate. thanks chiloe!
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2014 - 05:25am PT
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I hadn't thought of the plume model as the dominant model. But then I'm not in the field.
Plumes are just part of the model -- the whole cartoon of how plate tectonics works, as drawn in countless textbooks, is now said to be wrong. The cartoon shows rising material that forces plates apart at spreading centers, then pushes them horizontally from behind. At the far side they subduct still going forward, and now angling downward beneath another plate.
The new paradigm instead argues from many lines of evidence (and lack of evidence for the above) that plate motions are driven not by warmth rising from below, but by crust cooling above, and sinking more or less in place. The hinge rolls back, *pulling* the overriding plate forward which causes extension (spreading) behind. If that all sounds speculative (because we're so used to the standard model), it's worth reading some of the very detailed papers.
Most of what I knew about this debate came from Anderson and Natland, "A brief history of the plume hypothesis and its competitors" (2005):
Fine place to start.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2014 - 05:38am PT
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Good to see that Warren Hamilton is still alive and kicking
Still kicking indeed.
The abstract below is from a paper published in Tectonophysics (2013) -- emphasis added. I'll say more about this one later. In the meantime he's working on something more ambitious.
Evolution of the Archean Mohorovicic discontinuity from a synaccretionary 4.5 Ga protocrust
This review evaluates and rejects the currently dominant dogmas of geodynamics and geochemistry, which are based on 1950s–1970s assumptions of a slowly differentiating Earth. Evidence is presented for evolution of mantle, crust, and early Moho that began with fractionation of most crustal components, synchronously with planetary accretion, into mafic protocrust by ~ 4.5 Ga. We know little about Hadean crustal geology (> 3.9 Ga) except that felsic rocks were then forming, but analogy with Venus, and dating from the Moon, indicate great shallow disruption by large and small impact structures, including huge fractionated impact-melt constructs, throughout that era.
The mantle sample and Archean (< 3.9 Ga) crustal geology integrate well. The shallow mantle was extremely depleted by early removal of thick mafic protocrust, which was the primary source of the tonalite, trondhjemite, and granodiorite (TTG) that dominate preserved Archean crust to its base, and of the thick mafic volcanic rocks erupted on that crust. Lower TTG crust, kept mobile by its high radioactivity and by insulating upper crust, rose diapirically into the upper crust as dense volcanic rocks sagged synformally. The mobile lower crust simultaneously flowed laterally to maintain subhorizontal base and surface, and dragged overlying brittler granite-and-greenstone upper crust. Petrologically required garnet-rich residual protocrust incrementally delaminated, sank through low-density high-mantle magnesian dunite, and progressively re-enriched upper mantle, mostly metasomatically. Archean and earliest Proterozoic craton stabilization and development of final Mohos followed regionally complete early delamination of residual protocrust, variously between ~ 2.9 and 2.2 Ga. Where some protocrust remained, Proterozoic basins, filled thickly by sedimentary and volcanic rocks, developed on Archean crust, beneath which delamination of later residual protocrust continued top-down enrichment of upper mantle. That reenrichment enabled modern-style plate tectonics after ~ 600 Ma, with a transition regime beginning ~ 850 Ma.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Sep 11, 2014 - 06:13am PT
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This new theory is full of cracks.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2014 - 06:52am PT
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Chiloe: just read the Anderson & Natland paper. The high resolution 3D Vs tomography supports large-scale, mushroom-like thermal anomalies beneath spreading ridges & "hot spots" rather than narrow, sheet- or pipe-like features.
Yes, and these features form at relatively shallow depths, not floating up from deep mantle. Foulger has noted they also are found below some places (e.g. Hudson Bay) with no spreading or magmatism, so there is something besides the presence of hot material that determines whether it erupts -- i.e., surface weakness. (Hence her preference for the term "melt anomalies" instead of "hotsports.")
Still not sure how this model explains kimberlite pipes, diamonds, perovskite, etc. I guess kimberlite pipes are associated with continental interiors; whereas, this paper is dealing with the mantle beneath oceanic crust.
No, the ideas apply to continents and oceans both. Where do you see a contradiction with kimberlite? My understanding is it forms well above the 660km discontinuity (150 to 450?), or as in your diagrams upthread. Regarding perovskite, the Hirose paper you cited earlier seems consistent with descriptions in new-paradigm papers of its phase transition around 660km.
A great place to join the conversation among geologists seems to be at http://www.mantleplumes.org/ which is currently claiming contributions from 684 scientists. That's Don Anderson on their front page.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2014 - 07:53am PT
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I'm only half a dozen papers into this field but I think it's a glaring omission to not mention a mechanism for the break-up of Pangea or Gondwanaland, in discussing magma sources for hot-spots.
Have you checked out the Tectonophysics paper mentioned above? It's all about the startup of plate tectonics, and what happened before that.
It's fine to offer up some "observation" that mantle plumes might be shallow sourced, but using seismic tomography as the major evidence is pretty weak.
It's been mostly the other way around -- seismic observations used to demonstrate the existence of mantle plumes. Gillian Foulger has dissected that "evidence" case by case. What AN14 seems to be adding is newer, more detailed seismic evidence that points in the opposite direction, and agrees with Foulger (and others') doubts about previous work such as the Wolfe article in Science.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Sep 11, 2014 - 09:25am PT
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The new paradigm instead argues from many lines of evidence (and lack of evidence for the above) that plate motions are driven not by warmth rising from below, but by crust cooling above, and sinking more or less in place.
Slab pull, rather than ridge push, as the dominant mechanism for modern plate motions is a new idea? Seems like this idea has been around since at least the 1970s. The focus is mainly on volcanics associated with oceanic crustal/mantle processes. What do the anti-plumers say about volcanism associated with island and magmatic arcs? I don't really see anything all that revolutionary or paradigm-shifting here.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2014 - 10:44am PT
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I'll post more on this later, but ... it's true some of the ideas have been around for a while, but the synthesis is still emerging and runs very much against the ruling orthodoxy. As for example represented by this cartoon explaining plate tectonics from Wikipedia, and hundreds more like it in many intro texts, video presentations, computer and fluid-tank modeling papers, etc. etc.
It is generally accepted that tectonic plates are able to move because of the relative density of oceanic lithosphere and the relative weakness of the asthenosphere. Dissipation of heat from the mantle is acknowledged to be the original source of the energy required to drive plate tectonics through convection or large scale upwelling and doming.
The contrarians view cartoons like this and the bottom-up drive for tectonics as myths, and are cranky that they remain so widely repeated even in the top journals when they've been falsified in so many ways.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2014 - 10:49am PT
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Well, two of the biggest are horizontal motion by the sinking slabs, and a bottom-up driver making them move.
The alternative view (I'll look for a contrarian cartoon) would emphasize vertical (sinking) motion by the slab, with hinge rollback toward the plate interior. This forces interior mantle material up to cause doming and extension back from the edge. The overriding plate is pulled forward as the subducting one sinks, to fill the vacuum so to speak.
All driven top-down by cooling/sinking, not bottom-up by upwelling.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2014 - 10:53am PT
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There's no controversy about that. The question is, what's making things move?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2014 - 11:08am PT
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Dingus, here's one discussion of the evidence (with cartoons! and maps) regarding Emperor/Hawaii, the archetype for all plume/hotspot theories. I don't think the alternative explanation the author (JM Fischer) championed elsewhere holds water, but his critique of the classical hotspot view of Hawaii -- which every geo students learns as truth -- hits some of the main problems. Given how much we know about Pacific Rim geology, it's physically not possible.
Hawaii, we thought we knew you
The classic Plate Tectonics story for Hawaii now appears to be mistaken. The Pacific plate did not suddenly change directions, and there is no deep, stationary plume. Other explanations fit the evidence better.
The original idea
In 1963 Wilson suggested that the Hawaiian Islands formed as the Pacific plate moved over continuously upwelling hot mantle. In 1968 Christofferson conjectured that the Emperor-Hawaii elbow records a change in direction of the Pacific plate over a fixed "hotspot". In 1971 Morgan speculated that the heat source is a stationary "plume" rising vertically through the deep mantle, and this has been widely accepted.6
Challenging the original idea
"Simple tests falsify conjecture that the...Emperor-Hawaii system formed above a stationary plume. As this is the only testable purported plume, global speculation favoring fixed plumes falls with it."6
1) Pacific plate motion - no rapid change in direction
The concept requires "an enormous reorganization of Pacific Ocean plates 45 million years ago."6 This is not found anywhere "along the northeast, east, or south sides of the Pacific plate," where crust of that age is preserved.6 "The Pacific-Antarctic Ridge is the key link... tying the relative motion of the oceanic plates of the Pacific basin to the rest of the world."2 A survey of the Pitman Fracture Zone along this ridge was carried out in 1992. The authors concluded that "predictions of the track of the Hawaiian hot spot based on global reconstructions fail, once again, to predict a large bend around 43 million years ago."2 Next, "the Gilbert Ridge and Tokelau Seamounts are the only seamount trails in the Pacific Ocean with a sharp 60° bend, similar to the HEB." "The Louisville seamount trail is not useful... because it shows only a very broad curvature at its bend." Their study found that the Gilbert Ridge bend formed around 67 million years ago, while the Tokelau bend formed about 57 million years ago. They should have formed at the same time as the HEB, around 47 million years ago, "if they were formed by stationary hot spots, and assuming Pacific plate motion only." "Such asynchronous bends cannot be reconciled with the stationary hot spot paradigm."9 In addition, "improved mapping of marine magnetic anomalies in the Pacific has failed to define the directional change at 43 million years ago." "There was also a general lack of circ#m-Pacific tectonic events documented for this time. Recent age data suggest a slightly older age for the bend, about 47 million years ago, but this revised timing still does not correspond to an episode of profound plate motion change recorded within the Pacific basin or on its margins."15 "The textbook explanation for intraplate volcanism by fixed hot spots is either entirely wrong or insufficient to explain these phenomena."9 The most recent study of volcanoes of the central and southern Emperor chain claims that the Hawaii-Emperor Bend started at 50 million years ago.12 This is still far off of the 57 and 67 million years ago that are designated for the Gilbert Ridge and Tokelau Seamounts, and does not lessen the misfit between the predicted track of the Hawaiian hotspot, using magnetic anomalies at the Pitman Fracture Zone, and the actual island chain (below).
There's more at the source. This is old (ca. 2006) and not definitive, but should give you a sense of the problems.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2014 - 11:10am PT
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But you just said it wasn't moving?
The sinking slab, not so much. It would be plowing through an awful lot of resistance! But behind and ahead of that, for different reasons we get spreading/extension.
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