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Fletcher
Trad climber
The beckoning silence
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:09am PT
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For y'all that thought he was already dead, I suspect you are thinking of Pierre Salinger, Kennedy's and Johnson's press secretary. He died in 2004.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Salinger
Eric
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 29, 2010 - 03:16am PT
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tough style for me, but still resonated. didn't read it til I was in my 30s too.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Jan 29, 2010 - 10:14am PT
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"Who said Holden's a role model? A lot of teens (and apparently some adults) can relate to the character."
a post has been deleted:
"By God, I didn't just read Holden Caulfield, I lived him. Still am, in fact."
so, here is somebody, presumably an adult, declaring holden as a role model...i guess whoever posted this thought better of it later
"Anyone who can't feel some empathy for the character should be writing a right-wing blog, not teaching teens."
i can feel "some empathy" for holden but that doesn't mean i should ignore his many faults...and the main thing i emphasize with my students is to read closely and judge objectively...by doing so, my students can see holden's antipathy to his classmates is mostly unjustified...he's as sex-crazed as any teenager, which makes his indignation against "perverts" nothing but self-righteousness (yep, holden is a "phony")...his sister is proof enough that he comes from a stable home with good parents...his teacher (i forget his name) shows that holden does have adults willing to help him and, at least, lend a sympathetic ear
i don't believe, through twenty years of working with them, that holden represents the typical teenager
yes, i'll take huck over holden any day, but when i do teach the novel, i point out huck's racism (even at the end of the book)...once i have my students convinced (through textual evidence) shylock is a bloodthirsty jew, i take them through the play, AGAIN, and show them how the text reveals shylock is simply a victim of vicious anti-semitism
that's called critical reading, but i suppose wanda prefers his kids to be indoctrinated rather than taught to think for themselves
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 10:29am PT
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a post has been deleted:
"By God, I didn't just read Holden Caulfield, I lived him. Still am, in fact."
dude, wtf are you talking about? first post in the thread.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 12:25pm PT
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It's hard to see unless you lived it
very true. but even so, beyond the situational particulars of the fictional setting and background, much in catcher must strike a chord for many. the book has sold 65 million copies.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:38pm PT
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In her memoir, Margaret Salinger describes the detailed filing system her father had for his unpublished manuscripts: "A red mark meant, if I die before I finish my work, publish this 'as is,' blue meant publish but edit first, and so on."
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:45pm PT
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I guess the whole prep school thing is what makes Holden not so sympathetic a character for me. Boo hoo. All adults don't cater to my every whim. And my Topsiders don't match my BMW.
At least when Cobain sings about alienation, it rings a little more true as he came from a depressing little logging town.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 12:53pm PT
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ah, but holden caulfield is not an actual person. he's a character in a book by salinger. the character never existed, he merely emerged wholesale from the author's mind.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Jan 29, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
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"ah, but holden caulfield is not an actual person. he's a character in a book by salinger. the character never existed, he merely emerged wholesale from the author's mind."
so...you "live" a fictional character?
salinger's book may be legitimately groundbreaking (but it's nowhere near as important as Huck Finn), and his protagonist might be sympathetic, but that doesn't mean he's necessarily likable...and it doesn't mean that i shouldn't point out his faults or, worse, encourage my students to admire/emulate him
and he DOES shirk responsibility, both his academics and his duties as manager for the fencing team (not to mention older sibling to Phoebe)
a lot of kids "don't know where they fit in" but most don't feel contempt for others who do or go peeping in people's hotel room windows
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 01:17pm PT
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so...you "live" a fictional character?
no, it's the other was around. when i read catcher (i was in my 20's) i recognized parts of myself in the character. more like the character "lived" me.
this is also the difference between a role model (your words) and a literary character one feels a kinship to. a role model demonstrates characteristics that one first notes, and then seeks to emulate. relating to a character is very different, and involves recognizing events or elements in that character you have already experienced -- you have that "aha" moment where you say to yourself "exactly...i've been there."
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jan 29, 2010 - 01:33pm PT
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So Pate, you're trying to tell me that Holden legitimately has lots of things to complain about?
That he doesn't sound whiny?
Yes, a fair number of teens go thru periods where they feel alienated for one reason or another. They dress in dark clothes and listen to depressing music. I listened to the Cure and Bauhaus.
And maybe Catcher in the Rye is a reasonably good portrait of that period.
But many of us grow up to realize that things were really not that bad. It's one thing to want to escape a truly bad environment. Or to want to have a little adventure. But adults aren't all phonies.
Obviously I'm in the minority here in not thinking it's a classic. As you and BVB have pointed out, it's sold tons of copies and is regularly required reading in English classes.
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