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High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Nov 2, 2010 - 02:26pm PT
re: "Philosophy is Dead"

I only meant to draw attention to the notion that "Philosophy is dead" in the same sense that "Astrology is dead" or "Theology is dead" - being that it is the 21st century you wouldn't want your son or daughter majoring in any of these old-school disciplines (dysciplines) in college.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Nov 2, 2010 - 02:34pm PT
The reason that physicists do not need such a thing is that they believe that the physical universe provides the ultimate authority, through empirical observation, for the theories. There is no other authority in physics.

Ed, I think that you are basically correct in this assessment. But there is another significant difference between physics and philosophy, and that is what the "truth" predicate is doing.

In a robust Tarskian notion of truth: "'Snow is white' is true iff snow is white." At first blush, this seems consistent with what physics is saying: "We know that 'snow is white' is true iff empirical observation reveals that snow is white."

But the physical interpretation of Tarski's truth predicate builds in epistemological presumptions not found in the original. On Tarski's model, we are correlating "is true" with the FACTS in a robust, metaphysical way having nothing to do with any particular empirical bias. That vast majority of philosophers (apart from deflationists, etc.) accept that Tarski's truth predicate is the best account of "truth" that we have: it correlates an assertoric sentence with the way the world REALLY is (leaving the epistemological question of discovery out of the definition).

Physicists buy the Tarskian model of truth, but also build empiricism into their analysis of "the way the world is."

Things get sticky when "the way the world IS" is made synonymous with, in effect, "the way the world appears to us," which is what physicists do. Thus, physicists think that "snow is white" is synonymous with "snow appears white to us." In other words, empirical observations (that are themselves thoroughly interpreted) are made synonymous with what the actual metaphysical facts are.

Philosophers recognize that the way things appear to us and the way they really are often come apart. Furthermore, we recognize that there are fundamental limitations upon empiricism: for it to be thoroughgoing, you have to be willing to give up "truth" attributes of necessity, universality, and certainty in thoroughgoing fashion.

Ed, you seem quite willing to bite that bullet, thereby relativizing mathematics, logic, and so forth; and you "suspect" (I don't mean this pejoratively) that these fields emerge from "facts" (here you mean metaphysically, because your physics is really doing metaphysics) of the universe.

You will find few (I have never met one) mathematicians or logicians that will agree with your or share your hope. And I believe that your "physics explains all" approach is really the tail wagging the dog: physics employs mathematics, but it does not produce mathematics (we had this discussion before, and I don't see where you've even started to make the case that physics DRIVES mathematical discoveries). The best you can say so far is that you "suspect" that mathematics and logic are what they are because of some (as yet entirely undisclosed) properties or relations, empirically discoverable, that exist in the universe. But these relations or properties are as yet entirely occult, and I don't see even an inkling of what direction empirically discovering these might take. So, as yet, it's a grand hope, but entirely speculative.

Most philosophers, by contrast, prefer to keep Tarski unsullied by any particular epistemological commitments. This keeps "truth" much more robust, as it avoids the conflation between "the way the world IS" and "the way the world seems to us at this point in time."

It's too much history of philosophy at this point, but the interested reader could compare Hume and Kant (as that comparison underlies this entire discussion) to see that Hume (the empiricist) actually gutted the reliability of science, and Kant (the transcendental idealist) reestablished the reliability of science. However, ironically, reestablishing the reliability of science comes at the cost of putting certain scientific presumptions (such as the nature of space/time, causality, substance, etc.) "in us" and thereby making very robust the distinction between "the way things are" and "the way things appear to us."

In short, for physicists, "truth" becomes pragmatic: "the way things appear to us," or, "what seems to work best." For most philosophers, "truth" means very robustly: "the way things really are," and that is a metaphysically rather than physically bound notion of truth.

I'm not saying that in the context of these discussion here we are going to establish preeminence of either approach to "truth," but I am noting that there are MANY typically unrecognized consequences to each approach. Philosophy has produced some amazing results in the fields of logic, mathematics, philosophy of language, etc., and these have been based upon a robust Tarskian model of truth. Ed, you are certainly within your rights to "suspect" that an entirely empirical interpretation can also be productive in these fields, but you will not find mathematicians, logicians or linguists agreeing with you.

I earlier noted the distinction between propositions and sentences. The EXISTENCE of propositions as abstract objects has been demonstrated by Alonzo Church, and that propositional existence grounds the fact that translation between natural languages is possible at all. On your model, Ed, propositions are not really abstract objects at all, but are instead some (as yet undisclosed) features or relations of the empirical realm. Again, you can speculate that this is the case, but I await even a vague direction of inquiry toward empirically discovering what entities or relations might ground propositions.

This is where the rubber meets the road: philosophers, mathematicians, and logicians are content to refer to abstract objects; while physicists are committed to making these "abstract objects" actually be empirically-accessible objects.

The problem with this quest can be seen in the ill-fated results of the Vienna Circle in the early to mid-1900s. This group of philosophers and scientists attempted to reduce metaphysics to physics, effectively eliminating metaphysics. The epistemological approach known as "logical positivism" emerged from this group. In this case, "logical" meant an Enlightenment notion, reducing "rationality" to "empirically demonstrable;" and "positivism" meant "truth can be known."

The studied goal of this group was to analyze all forms of discourse, rejecting those the statements of which could not be cast in empirical terms. Of course, religion was first on the chopping block, as statements like "God created the universe in six days" utterly lack empirical truth conditions! The ultimate concluding principle became something like this: "Statements in any discourse that lack empirical truth conditions are worse than merely false; they are meaningless." Hence, the "logic" of all discourses (in this case, the semantics) determining the meaning of statements in that discourse had to be tied to empirical truth conditions.

Ed, I might be misunderstanding you, but you seem to be leaning strongly this direction.

This epistemological approach gained more and more favor through the 50s, and it seemed to herald the ultimate unification of philosophy and science, specifically between metaphysics and physics. It took decades, with almost everybody on board, before a few philosophers (NOT scientists) starting noticing the fly in the ointment.

The underlying principle of logical positivism ITSELF lacked empirical truth conditions!

As soon as the buzz started to get around, a quickly growing awareness swept the intellectual community, and almost overnight logical positivism was dead. Out of this revolution sprang the most pervasive aspect of philosophy of science, the part that underlies all contemporary scientific discourse, and that was Popper's breakthrough notion of falsifiability.

But notice that falsificationism emerges as a REACTION to the verificationism of logical positivism. And the unrecognized implication of the principle of falsificationism is that scientific "truth" is NECESSARILY provisional, it is ALWAYS "how things SEEM to us at the moment." In science since the death of logical positivism, "truth" is always small-t truth, with no hope of robust KNOWLEDGE. POSITIVISM is dead in science!

For most people, this small-k knowledge (what seems to work) is "close enough for rock and roll." THE problem arises when physics forgets ALL of this background and starts talking like the small-k knowledge is the same thing as genuine, certain KNOWLEDGE; as though "the way things seem to us at the moment" is JUST THE SAME thing as "the way things REALLY ARE."

They are NOT the same thing, and both the histories of philosophy AND science (particularly when they have intersected) reveal how different they are.

So, I take umbrage with science when it gets strident, when it starts talking as though any particular physical model REALLY IS the way things are in the universe. And, Ed, your conflation of the empirical with the Tarskian notion of truth is akin to logical positivism, it is not sustainable, not demonstrable, and is pure speculation.

IMHO
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Nov 2, 2010 - 02:45pm PT
See, no disrespect, but who talks like that? Not engineers. Not applied scientists. Not the effective ones. Nowadays, apart from academic philosophers, only paranormalists or theologians. Nobody wishing to gain traction in today's world in matters of understanding talks like that anymore. Esoterica is out. (Review its etymology.)
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Nov 2, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
It seems though that nothing was as damaging to science as the rise of the Christians. Much of what the Greeks learned was lost for ages because of gods law and christina influence.

It's ironic that you start talking about the whacko influence Aristotle had on physics, but then refer with reverence in the above quote to the Greek learning. And your history goes downhill from there.

In point of fact, the primary reason "much of what the Greeks learned was lost" was the result of the fire consuming the library at Alexandria in 48 BCE. By the time the Western world entered early medieval times, only fragments of the wealth of Greek learning remained. That is, until it was revealed in the early middle ages that the Muslims had copied and retained much of it.

It is true that medieval philosophy (scholasticism) consisted almost entirely of trying to reconcile the Bible with Aristotle (primarily) and Plato (in the form of the neo-Platonism). Descartes really did usher in the modern resurgence of robust philosophizing and science. Ironically, Descartes was NOT an empiricist!!! He was a rationalist, and he argued vociferously against the empirical principles that supposedly began with him.

However, it is a ridiculous oversimplification, and not sustained by history, to suggest that "nothing was as damaging to science as the rise of the Christians." If that were true, then explain why the Muslim world (then in fuller possession of Greek philosophy/science than anybody else in the world) did not take greater strides! Gunpowder? Been there and done that! What you do NOT seen ANYWHERE in the world during the so-called "dark ages" is robust strides in science! It is not like the Chinese or Muslims had the universe all figured out while the sorry "Christian world" groped around in flat-Earth stupidity. There were simultaneously rising stars in all three cultures. And, indeed, the advances we DO see in science (the greats, such as Kepler), the ones that really changed the course of HUMAN history, occurred in the Western world, albeit with the resistance of the church.

MANY factors contributed to the so-called "Enlightenment," and the most significant factors were political rather than religious. If anything, if you want to cite religious factors, the Reformation contributed significantly (but largely insofar as it contributed politically); but your problem there is that the Reformation proceeded as CHRISTIANS critiquing Christianity. So, it's impossible to make the case that "Christianity" was the repressive influence during the events leading up to the Enlightenment.

In short, it is a well-worn fable in this day and age that "Christianity suppresses scientific development." And specifically today, what Christians oppose (even though they could not articulate it in this way) is the logical positivism that has reemerged among physicists! If physicists were CAREFUL to cast all of their statements with humility and in provisional terms, there would be no conflict. But instead, the "new atheism" has turned the practice of modern physics into hard-core metaphysics and loudly proclaimed that God is dead (or at least really, really unnecessary). But that is a logical leap that is completely unsustained and unsustainable.

So, believe what you want, but that belief doesn't change the facts of history, philosophy, or science.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Nov 2, 2010 - 03:04pm PT
How about historians and the founders of our nation, among many others, you goofball? The language of equations is not the only appropriate discourse.

Oh, that's right, you eschew history because it consists of facts that don't sustain your narrow-minded and (dead) logical positivist world view.
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Nov 2, 2010 - 03:18pm PT
See, no disrespect, but who talks like that? Not engineers. Not applied scientists. Not the effective ones. Nowadays, apart from academic philosophers, only paranormalists or theologians. Nobody wishing to gain traction in today's world in matters of understanding talks like that anymore. Esoterica is out. (Review its etymology.)

Ed, above, said it well:
Philosophy has no such "ultimate" authority. To a physicist, it is all just arguing and words...
Crodog

Social climber
Nov 2, 2010 - 03:19pm PT
Michael Langone, Ph.D., a psychologist who specializes in cults, identified some psychological traits that can make a person more likely to be successfully recruited, including:

•dependency - an intense desire to belong, stemming from a lack of self-confidence

•unassertiveness - a reluctance to say no or question authority

•gullibility - a tendency to believe what someone says without really thinking about it

•low tolerance for uncertainty - a need to have any question answered immediately in black-and-white terms

•disillusionment with the status quo - a feeling of marginalization within one's own culture and a desire to see that culture change

•naive idealism - a blind belief that everyone is good

•desire for spiritual meaning - a need to believe that life has a "higher purpose"
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Nov 2, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
but I await even a vague direction of inquiry toward empirically discovering what entities or relations might ground propositions.

the number of possible algebras...

I'm not sure how you got the idea that I was a positivist, or that I required "empirical truth conditions" to underly the scientific method. In fact, I stated above that I didn't need that to make progress in physics.

I have also stated again and again that this is not about Truth or Knowledge, but about understanding and predicting. What we have is an acknowledgement that our ability to test our predictions are limited by the finite resolution of our observations, so we perceive an approximation to the physical universe, one that limits our ability to test hypotheses.

But in the end, we have the test... and that is a very powerful thing. If I make a hypothesis and test it, and others do the same and agree, then we can confirm or reject that hypothesis on the basis of that empirical test. Our hypothesis is derived from a theory, and we learn how good the theory is at predicting the outcome of a particular physical situation.

That's all there is to it. I don't see why there is a need to have a philosophical discussion, in fact, it all seems rather silly because there is really nothing to argue about, where is your test? How is empiricism falsifiable by empirical means? So far, it hasn't been...

I don't say we know the truth, but if you make a statement you must make it consistent with the the physical universe. Of course, you can make any statement you'd like about the "nonphysical" universe, but that universe cannot affect the physical one, otherwise we could devise tests to measure the effect, it becomes physical.

Now the construction may or may not be trivial. Saying that "God created..." is a construction that has no predictive value, for instance. We can't use that to predict what the outcome of a physical situation will be, but it is a construction consistent with the observations. That construction is also not falsifiable.

I can understand that philosophers have had a great deal of difficulty with understanding science. Luckily, it hasn't affected our ability to do science.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Nov 2, 2010 - 03:55pm PT
It don't play here

Oh, I'm fully aware that it doesn't play here, because the REAL arrogance, the real dismissiveness is on your side of the table, I think Ed excluded. You guys dismissively box and package everything non-physicist, completely ignoring the history of ideas that would demonstrate the, for example, dead logical positivism that grounds all of your thinking. Keep in mind that SCIENTISTS helped ground that movement and fan its flame.

And today, SCIENTISTS are the movers attempting to breathe new life into that corpse. So, ignore all you want, but there's nothing new under the sun.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Nov 2, 2010 - 03:57pm PT
or that I required "empirical truth conditions" to underly the scientific method. In fact, I stated above that I didn't need that to make progress in physics.

Wait! Wait! Now I'm totally confused! (No surprise to many here!)

If you don't require empirical truth conditions, then WHAT would be the nature of the truth conditions that you DO admit?

Are you NOT an empiricist? Is physics NOT an empirical science?

If we can admit of other than empirical truth conditions, then I would like to offer a number of others, NONE of which will be admissible by science!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Nov 2, 2010 - 03:58pm PT
about understanding and predicting

This is EXACTLY what I said above: for physics, "truth" has become pragmatic!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Nov 2, 2010 - 04:03pm PT
ow is empiricism falsifiable by empirical means? So far, it hasn't been...

Actually is is ALL the time. THAT is the problem of empiricism that Hume early noted. Empiricism is "generally reliable," but certainly not ALWAYS!

Things often do not turn out as predicted, which as Hume noted, is the fundamental problem facing empiricism itself: WHEN is empiricism "reliable" and when is it not? Citing science as "when" it is reliable is question begging, because it is only when science appears reliable (which is not always) that it appears reliable.

Empiricism ITSELF suffers continual falsification. But, as Hume put it, we MUST believe in it because it is "brute" to believe in it. Hume's is a psychological account of belief in empiricism rather than a rational account of empiricism: to date we have no "logic of induction" or other satisfactory attempt to create a "rationality of empiricism." We just "buy it" because "it usually works," and that's the closest thing to "reliability" we have in the natural world.

But that is just again saying that empirical "truth" is just pragmatism.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Nov 2, 2010 - 04:05pm PT
I can understand that philosophers have had a great deal of difficulty with understanding science. Luckily, it hasn't affected our ability to do science.

Actually, history has shown that it is the scientists that don't understand science. Fortunately, that hasn't affected their ability to DO science. It HAS, however, radically affected their ability to STATE what science is really doing and what it can really demonstrate. And THAT is the nature of the divide here!
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Nov 2, 2010 - 04:08pm PT
In short, it is a well-worn fable in this day and age that "Christianity suppresses scientific development." And specifically today, what Christians oppose (even though they could not articulate it in this way) is the logical positivism that has reemerged among physicists! If physicists were CAREFUL to cast all of their statements with humility and in provisional terms, there would be no conflict. But instead, the "new atheism" has turned the practice of modern physics into hard-core metaphysics and loudly proclaimed that God is dead (or at least really, really unnecessary). But that is a logical leap that is completely unsustained and unsustainable.
What's happened in the last 2 years with the Texas School Board, shows differently:

-Voting to revise all science text books in middle and high schools to remove any and all references to the age of the universe and the Earth, in order to 'leave enough room for the Earth and Creation to be <10,000 years old', among other nonsense.
-Recently voting now to rewrite social studies books to lessen, or remove entirely, people like Thomas Jefferson, and replace him with people like John Calvin and his importance in the "Christian Founding of our Nation", and other absurd nonsense.

Have you heard of Historical Revisionism/Negationism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revisionism_(negationism)


Sorry, dude, but history and science shouldn't be determined by a vote. Dismissing FACTS, and proactively hiding them from our next generation so as to better control what they believe is absurd. Those kids, and all the others this will effect, will be intelectually handicapped in a time when we as a nation are already sliding further behind other nations educationaly, and have to compete on many levels in the world... In fact, in a recent survey, the US ranked 18 out of the top 20. Intelectually handicaped do not compete well for jobs, and their futures are bleak.


This would be funny, if it weren't such a possibility:
[img]


Because of people confidently who think this is what a transistional speacies should look like:


Simply because they refuse to understand this:



Not that I hthink you'll read this, but I composed this some time ago on rc.com:
(At least read the bold, especially where ID is created by Phillip Johnson, to try to teach Creationism in schools, then later abandoned by him, and he even states that "it is not a theory than can compete in any way with the theory of Evolution.")
After centuries of advancement in our understanding of nature and the world around us, even the cosmos... We entered the 'Age of Enlightenment', and in the early 20th Century we even saw the Quantum Revolution, responsible for the computer you are reading this on right now. An understanding of evolution is what is responsible for the flu vaccine you may have gotten recently.

Yet, in less than 100 years, religious fundamentalists have succeeded in moving a signifigant portion of the population's understanding of the world backwards...


Here's a timeline that shows this move backwards:
Creationism and Creation science

1920s: Fundamentalist-Modernist Controversy – in an upsurge of fundamentalist religious fervor, anti-evolutionary sentiment stopped U.S. public schools from teaching evolution, through state laws such as Tennessee’s 1925 Butler Act,[1][2] and by getting evolution removed from biology textbooks nationwide.[3]

1959 National Defense Education Act, responding to fears of backwardness raised by the 1957 Sputnik, promoted science and Biological Sciences Curriculum Study textbooks teaching evolution were used in almost half of high schools, though the prohibitions were still in place and a 1961 attempt to repeal the Butler Act failed.[4]


1961 publication of The Genesis Flood.[5]

1965 The term "scientific creationism" gained currency.[5]

1967 Michael Polanyi article argued that “machines are irreducible to physics and chemistry” and that “mechanistic structures of living beings appear to be likewise irreducible.” [6]

1968 Epperson v. Arkansas ruled against state laws prohibiting the teaching of evolution, concluding that they violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution which prohibits state aid to religion.[7] States may not alter the curriculum to conform to the beliefs of particular religious sects:[2][4]

1975 Daniel v. Waters rules that a state law requiring biology textbooks discussing "origins or creation of man and his world" to give equal treatment to creation as per Genesis is unconstitutional, creationists change to Creation science omitting explicit biblical references.[4]

1977 Hendren v. Campbell rules that use of the 1970 Creation Research Society textbook Biology: A Search For Order In Complexity, though claimed to present a balanced view of evolution and Biblical Creation, promotes a specific sectarian religious view, and is unconstitutional in public schools. "We may note that with each new decision of the courts religious proponents have attempted to modify or tailor their approach to active lobbying in state legislatures and agencies. Softening positions and amending language, these groups have, time and again, forced the courts to reassert and redefine the prohibitions of the First Amendment. Despite new and continued attempts by such groups, however, the courts are bound to determine, if possible, the purpose of the approach."[8]


Creation science school textbooks and the Foundation for Thought and Ethics

1980 Foundation for Thought and Ethics (FTE) formed by ordained minister Jon Buell as a "Christian think-tank", its first activity to be the editing of a book "showing the scientific evidence for creation.".[9]

1981 state of Arkansas passed a law, Act 590, mandating that "creation science" be given equal time in public schools with evolution, and defining creation science as positing the “creation of the universe, energy, and life from nothing,” as well as explaining the earth’s geology “by occurrence of a worldwide flood.”[5] McLean v. Arkansas ruling issued on January 5, 1982, is that the Act was unconstitutional, the creationists' methods were not scientific but took the literal wording of the Book of Genesis and attempted to find scientific support for it.[5] The clear, specific definition of science used to rule that “creation science” is religion, not science, had a powerful influence on subsequent rulings.[2]

1982 Louisiana's "Balanced Treatment for Creation-Science and Evolution-Science in Public School Instruction" Act (Creationism Act) forbids the teaching of the theory of evolution in public schools unless accompanied by instruction in "creation science."[7] Thus two states had passed these "equal time" laws.[10]

late 1982 as work on The Mystery of Life’s Origin (see 1984) nears completion, start made on what will become Pandas.[6]

1983 Percival Davis and Dean H. Kenyon produce Creation Biology Textbook Supplements, an early draft of the work later retitled Of Pandas and People.[11] Charles Thaxton was the project chairman and academic editor.[12]


The ID movement begins

1984 book The Mystery of Life’s Origin by Charles Thaxton and others, foreword by Kenyon, argues for ‘a profoundly informative intervention' by an intelligent cause, "the authors conclude that while design can be detected in biology, science cannot determine from this evidence whether the design was from a creator outside the cosmos."[6] Barbara Forrest describes this as the beginning of the ID movement.[12]

1984 Kenyon's affidavit for what becomes Edwards v. Aguillard gives Definitions "Creation-science means origin through abrupt appearance in complex form, and includes biological creation, biochemical creation (or chemical creation), and cosmic creation.", "Creation-science does not include as essential parts the concepts of catastrophism, a world-wide flood, a recent inception of the earth or life, from nothingness (ex nihilo), the concept of kinds, or any concepts from Genesis or other religious texts." Satements included "The creationist scientific conclusion is that empirical data currently in hand demand the inference that the first living organisms were created." and "The origin of printed texts, manufactured devices, and biomolecular systems require intelligent design and engineering knowhow (Wilder-Smith 1970). In each case the characteristic order of the system must be impressed on matter 'from the outside.'"[13] It claims creation and evolution the only scientific explanations of life - what Forrest calls "the dual model".[11]
This is later described by the DI's Witt as "There Kenyon described a science open to intelligent causes but one free of religious presuppositions or assertions about the identity of the designer. He described how he did origins science, how a science open to intelligent causes ought to be done." Witt claims that this is a different creation science from Young Earth Creationism (YEC).[6]

1985 District Court "Aguillard v. Treen" held that there can be no valid secular reason for prohibiting the teaching of evolution, a theory historically opposed by some religious denominations. The court further concluded that "the teaching of 'creation-science' and 'creationism,' as contemplated by the statute, involves teaching 'tailored to the principles' of a particular religious sect or group of sects." (citing Epperson v. Arkansas (1968)). The District Court therefore held that the Creationism Act violated the Establishment Clause either because it prohibited the teaching of evolution or because it required the teaching of creation science with the purpose of advancing a particular religious doctrine. The court of Appeals affirmed.[7]
DI's Witt claims that "In Edwards, the Court found Louisiana’s act entailed the teaching of religion by virtue of a specific religious construction, comprised of particular teachings clearly paralleling the ‘Book of Genesis. Thus, it was a specific set of teachings or doctrines from a religious source that constituted religion." and so didn't apply to Kenyon's definition of the term “creation science”.[6]

1985 Michael Denton's book: Evolution: A Theory in Crisis. Prominent figures in ID credit his critical examination of Darwinism with their change of view (Behe, Johnson).

1986 FTE copyrighted draft entitled Biology and Creation by Kenyon & Davis. [11] (note Charles Thaxton academic editor, not clear from when)
Autumn 1986 FTE, under the name of "Austin Analytic Consulting", carried out survey of 300 high-school science teachers to show potential mainline publishers that a market existed for a supplementary textbook to "balance" evolution teaching in class.[14][9][15]

1987 FTE copyrighted draft entitled Biology and Origins by Kenyon & Davis.[11]

1987 FTE's founder Jon Buell sought a publisher for the book, telling a Boston firm "A new independent scientific poll (report enclosed) shows almost half of the nation's biology teachers include some creation in their view of biological origins. Many more who don't still believe it should be included in science curriculum.... The U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals says that teachers are free to teach scientific information that happens to support creation if they wish. In ruling on the so-called Louisiana "Balanced Treatment Act" this Spring the U.S. Supreme Court may not affirm state-mandated teaching of creation, but they will almost certainly let stand the above academic freedom for teachers." "The enclosed projections showing revenues of Over 6.5 million in five years are based upon modest expectations for the market provided the U.S Supreme Court does not uphold the Louisiana "Balanced Act". If, by chance it should uphold it, then you can throw out these projections, the nationwide market would be explosive!" "the book will not be subject to the major criticism of creation, that the supernatural lies outside of science, because its central statement is that scientific evidence points to an intelligent cause, but that science is silent as to whether that intelligence is within or beyond the material universe. So the book is not appealing to the supernatural."[16]

. . .

Creation becomes intelligent design, “cdesign proponentsists”

1987 (according to a 2005 apologia by the DI's Witt) Thaxton's definition of "creation-science" had been overruled at Edwards by being equated to YEC, so he needed a new term and found it in a phrase he'd picked up from a NASA scientist – intelligent design. He thought "That’s just what I need, it’s a good engineering term….. it seemed to jibe... And I went back through my old copies of Science magazine and found the term used occasionally." Soon the term intelligent design was incorporated into the language of the book.[6]

1987 In a new draft of Pandas, approximately 150 uses of the root word "creation", such as "creationism" and "creationist", were systematically changed to refer to intelligent design,[19] with "creationists" being changed to "design proponents" or, in one instance, "cdesign proponentsists".[20] Accordingly, in the definition "creation" was changed to "intelligent design", so that it now read "Intelligent design means that various forms of life began abruptly through an intelligent agency, with their distinctive features already intact. Fish with fins and scales, birds with feathers, beaks, wings, etc." This wording was essentially unchanged when published in 1989 and in the 1993 2nd. edition.

. . .

Campaign to get intelligent design into schools

1989 Haughton and the FTE campaigned to get Pandas into schools across the U.S. – mobilizing local Christian conservative groups to push school boards and individual teachers to adopt the book and also to get themselves elected to school boards and local educational committees. They claimed that intelligent design was "accepted science, a view that is held by many highly qualified scientists".[15]

September 12, 1989, at the Alabama hearings on approved school textbooks. Pandas was on the list but not in the libraries for public viewing as required. An Eagle Forum chapter director praised Pandas as an exemplary scientific text presenting an alternative to modern evolutionary theory based on "intelligent design". With NCSE assistance, written criticism was sent to committee members and on October 2, a majority of the State Textbook Committee voted against Pandas, partly because of its thinly disguised religious underpinnings. This decision was subject to adoption by the State Board of Education in December.[29]

November 1989, Haughton advertised Pandas in the monthly of the National Science Teachers Association (NSTA) and other journals, claiming it had been "prepared with academic integrity" and had been "Authored by mainstream, published science educators",[30] and promoted it at teachers’ association conventions.[31]

November 1989, Pandas was promoted by members of religiously-oriented citizen pressure groups like Concerned Women for America and Citizens for Excellence in Education. It was under consideration for state adoption in both Idaho and Alabama, and to be submitted in Texas and other states in the coming months. With grass-roots promotion it also had a good chance of showing up in local districts of non-adoption states.[31]

December 1989 a church campaign in Alabama gathered over 11,800 signatures on a petition to add Pandas to the list of approved school textbooks, after weeks of urging from a Christian radio station in Tuscaloosa.[32]

December 14, 1989, at the Alabama State Board of Education meeting to consider adoption of the textbook list, Haughton Publishing made an elaborate presentation. A Birmingham businessman presented petitions with over 11,800 signatures urging the board to adopt supplementary materials presenting "Intelligent Design" as an alternative to evolution. The attorney for Haughton, Hare, charged that opponents had falsely painted Pandas as a creationist text, and said that "Intelligent Design" does not compel belief in the supernatural. The Board requested legal advice, and a January hearing was set up just to consider Pandas.[32]

January 8, 1990, Buell and Thaxton were amongst speakers for Pandas at the hearing, but the publisher Haughton tried to withdraw and end the hearing on procedural grounds. The meeting continued, but Haughton then threatened to sue the committee members if they rejected the book rather than accepting that it had been withdrawn, as rejection would injure future sales prospects. The committee passed a resolution recognizing its withdrawal.[32]
Active promotion by creationists of "Pandas for public school use continued throughout the 1990s, then after 2000 activity largely died down.[27][18]


Discovery Institute founded, Johnson's views

November 30, 1989, Johnson's "informal summary of my views" (from the book he was working on) stated "The important issue is not the relationship of science and creationism, but the relationship of science and materialist philosophy." He wanted school textbooks to acknowledge alleged problems with evolution. "More importantly, the universities should be opened up to genuine intellectual inquiry into the fundamental assumptions of Darwinism and scientific materialism. The possibility that Darwinism is false, and that no replacement theory is currently available..."[25]

1990 Haughton admitted sales of Pandas so far had been single-copy. Instead of attempts to get state textbook approval, the FTE was now directing efforts "outside the schools" to the grass-roots level, targeting local school boards, teacher's groups, and parents.[9]

May 1990 a FTE letter by Jon Buell announced a new sales campaign as they'd found it best to approach the local school system through the biology teacher. It included an 18-minute video with the endorsements of a number of scientists, educators, and an authority on First Amendment law, and a Suggested Plan of Action for volunteers suggesting: finding a sympathetic biology teacher (perhaps a fellow church member) who then convinces the curriculum committee and/or administration to approve use of Pandas without need for funding, then a local church purchases the books and donates them to the school.[33]


1990 Discovery Institute (DI) is founded by Bruce Chapman,[34] but lacks a defining issue.[35]

1990 Johnson's booklet Evolution as Dogma: The Establishment of Naturalism was published under the auspices of the FTE by Haughton Publishing. He claimed that science holds a metaphysical materialist viewpoint that rejects the possibility of a Creator, so cannot countenance evidence for supernatural intervention.[36]

October 1990 -Johnson's article "A Reply to My Critics" stated that "Victory in the creation-evolution dispute therefore belongs to the party with the cultural authority to establish the ground rules that govern the discourse. If creation is admitted as a serious possibility, Darwinism cannot win, and if it is excluded a priori Darwinism cannot lose." He cited the logic of what he called "the Natural Academy of Sciences", as accepted by the Supreme Court at Edwards, that "creation-science" is not science because it does not rely upon naturalistic explanations, but holds "that the creation of the universe, the earth, living things, and man was accomplished through supernatural means inaccessible to human understanding".[37]

1991 professor Phillip A. Bishop at the University of Alabama was told to stop proselytizing students in class and teaching "intelligent design theory" in an optional class. At Bishop v. Aronov he sued the college on free speech and academic freedom grounds, and won at District Court but the Appeals Court found that the university had a right to set the curriculum.[36]

. . .

Still need a theory, teach controversy

1999 strategies: argue that individual teachers have a constitutional right to present creationist material, and that "evidence against evolution" should be taught in the science classroom as a way to improve teaching and learning. Attempts to teach IC and introduce Pandas. Resources for teachers... abundantly available from both "creation science ministries" and conservative religious groups.[26]

1999 David DeWolf, Stephen Meyer and Mark DeForrest coauthored a 40-page booklet, Intelligent Design in Public School Science Curricula: A Legal Guidebook, published by the FTE. It claims Edwards v. Aguillard mandated "teaching a variety of scientific theories about the origins of humankind" subject to a "clear secular intent of enhancing.. science instruction."[18]

1999 Skagit County's Burlington-Edison School District finds that for almost 10 years the high-school science teacher Roger DeHart had been omitting state-approved biology textbook teaching on evolution, and using Pandas.[35]

Aug. 17, 1999, Philip Kitcher, professor of the philosophy of science at Columbia University, in online debate in Slate magazine with Johnson, coins neo-creo: "Enter the neo-creos, scavenging the scientific literature, they take claims out of context and pretend that everything about evolution is controversial. . . . But it's all a big con."[24]

May 10, 2000, DI briefing of Congress, "Scientific Evidence of Intelligent Design and its Implications for Public Policy and Education," also addressed the social, moral, and political consequences of Darwinism. Creation-evolution debate had primarily been active at the state and local level, a new effort to involve Congress, took place as the Senate entered its second week of debate on overhauling federal K-12 education programs. Nancy Pearcey "For Darwinists, religion must give way to a new science-based cosmic myth with the power to bind humans together in a new world order. She then asked what this means for morality and argued that people were right to be concerned that all the above would undercut morality."[63]

July 2000 Dean Kenyon and David DeWolf of CRSC: Kenyon states "Scientific creationism... is actually one of the intellectual antecedents of the Intelligent Design movement.[64]

June 2001 Rick Santorum introduces The Santorum Amendment to "Teach the Controversy" partially written by Johnson (and based on a law journal article written by DI activist David DeWolf) inviting , left out of bill but kept in conference report.[4]

December 2002 DI lobbying to get ID into Ohio science standards Ohio House Bill 481. Bills all failed, ID excluded by name in the approved standard but it included the phrase "critically analyze aspects of evolutionary theory" used as excuse for the new "teach the controversy" strategy.[4][65]

Jan 2004 Dembski The Design Revolution: Answering the Toughest Questions About Intelligent Design ISBN 0830823751 page 22 "Theism, whether Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, holds that God by wisdom created the world. The origin of the world and its subsequent ordering thus result from the designing activity of an intelligent agent, God.
Naturalism, on the other hand, allows no place for intelligent agency, except at the end of a blind, purposeless, material process."
2004 ©. FTE, draft for new version of Pandas, mentions 10th anniversary, authors listed as Michael J. Behe, Percival Davis, William A. Dembski, Dean H. Kenyon, Jonathan Wells. Contents list, preface, notes to teachers, notes to students, epilogue, but no main content.[28]

March 10, 2004, Ohio State Board of Education approved model lesson Critical Analysis of Evolution – Grade 10.[65][66]

2004 Paul Nelson interviewed by a magazine called Touchstone: A Journal of Mere Christianity – "Easily, the biggest challenge facing the ID community is to develop a full-fledged theory of biological design. We don't have such a theory right now, and that's a real problem. Without a theory, it's very hard to know where to direct your research focus. Right now, we've got a bag of powerful intuitions and a handful of notions such as irreducible complexity and specified complexity, but as yet, no general theory of biological design."[22]

2004 the school board of Grantsburg, Wisconsin, voted to have ID taught as an alternative to evolution. By late summer 2005 letters urging reversal had been organised by a department of University of Wisconsin–Madison and clergy nationwide, the Clergy Letter Project, resulting in the board largely reversing their decision.[10]


Kitzmiller

June 7, 2004, at Dover, Pennsylvania, the Dover Area School District School Board considered a new biology textbook. William Buckingham objected, wanting a textbook that gave a balanced view between creationism and evolution. He subsequently proposed Of Pandas and People, after acrimonious debate it was left off the list on August 2.[18]

October 4, 2004, Buckingham announced acceptance of 50 donated copies of Pandas. On October 18 the full School Board voted 6-3 to amend the district's curriculum to include intelligent design. Buckingham states a law firm has offered pro bono legal representation.[18]

December 12, 2004, Phillip Johnson stated in an interview "What the Dover board did is not what I'd recommend.... Just teach evolution with a recognition that it's controversial..."[18]

December 14, 2004, 11 parents, ACLU, Americans United and Pepper Hamilton LLP file lawsuit Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, lead plaintiff Tammy Kitzmiller, the mother of a ninth grader in the biology class. On December 20, the District voted for the Thomas More Law Center to represent it pro bono.[18][4]

May 2005 Kansas school board hearings led by John Calvert, director of the Kansas office of the Intelligent Design Network, boycotted by mainstream scientists as an "anti-science crusade."[67]

September 26, 2005 to November 4, 2005, Kitzmiller trial before Judge John E. Jones III

November 2005 Kansas school board voted 6-4 for new science standards criticising evolution, redefining science, then turned out in elections.[67]

December 20, 2005, Kitzmiller decision; Judge Jones issued his findings of fact and decision as his 139 page MEMORANDUM OPINION.


After Kitzmiller

February 2006 Kansas school board voted 6-4 for new standards supporting evolution.[67]

February 2006 Ohio Governor Bob Taft requests legal review of the state's "teach the controversy" curriculum standards, Ohio State Board of Education members vote 11-4 to drop all of the "teach the controversy".[4]

Spring 2006 Johnson states in interview "I also don’t think that there is really a theory of intelligent design at the present time to propose as a comparable alternative to the Darwinian theory, which is, whatever errors it might contain, a fully worked out scheme. There is no intelligent design theory that’s comparable. Working out a positive theory is the job of the scientific people that we have affiliated with the movement. Some of them are quite convinced that it’s doable, but that’s for them to prove…No product is ready for competition in the educational world."[46]

June 2007 Behe's new book and new theory The Edge of Evolution: The Search for the Limits of Darwinism, claims that variation for the building blocks of evolution are not due to random mutation in DNA, but instead produced by an intelligent designer. Reiterates argument for irreducible complexity, calculating improbability on 2 or more beneficial mutations happening simulataneously, rather than one by one as evolutionary theory requires.[68]

2007, A new biology textbook intended to replace Of Pandas and People, entitled Explore Evolution is published by Hill House Publishers. The book is authored by Stephen C. Meyer, Scott Minnich and Paul A. Nelson, Jonathan Moneymaker and Ralph Seelke.[69][70][71]

2007 William A. Dembski and Jonathan Wells rewrote "Of Pandas and People" as a college textbook, The Design of Life.[72][71] When asked in a December interview whether his research concluded that God is the Intelligent Designer, Dembski stated "I believe God created the world for a purpose. The Designer of intelligent design is, ultimately, the Christian God."[73]

April, 2008, the pro-intelligent design movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed is debuted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_intelligent_design

Intelligent Design is nothing more than a political movement by a fringe minority of religious fundamentalists, ALL ASSOCIATED WITH THE DISCOVERY INSTITUTE, to get Creationism (read: Religion) into schools, and/or discredit evolution and other scientifically accepted theories that show their narrow misguided views are WRONG!

All who participate in this, including those that believe it has any scientific validity are either actively perpetrating fraud or are have been successfully conned by those pushing their agenda. And, currently, it is the agenda of one man: Phillip Johnson.

So, despite many of the Fundie's belief that a literal interpretation of the Bible that leads to Creationism has always been believed in the manner it is today... Nope! You are someone's tool acting on their agenda and believing their constantly changing bullshit!



madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
Nov 2, 2010 - 04:09pm PT
And, Ed, you still have not indicated how you are not a logical positivist. Tell me more about these non-empirical truth conditions. Or are you instead saying that truth really has nothing to do with it?

If so, then you seem to (finally) be admitting that science is NOT in the position of saying how the world REALLY is (all Hawking's bravado to the contrary). And you also then seem to be saying that there COULD be other sorts of (non physical) truth conditions. But that seems to give away the farm.

I'm off traveling now for several days, so won't be responding for days now.
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Nov 2, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
Boo! That pic didn't take, and I can't edit all of that post for some reason... Must be too big.

Should be...

This would be funny, if it weren't such a frightening possibility:
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Nov 2, 2010 - 04:23pm PT
And this appears relevant to the discussion at hand:

A couple paragraghs from a really nice blog entry/essay at BackReaction:
The Future of Rationality
By Bee *

. . .

So here's a thought I've been pushing around for a while. Are we on the path towards more or less rationality? The last several hundred years were marked by increased rationality: the rise and success of the scientific method, the Age of Enlightenment, the decline of religion and superstition, and so on. But you look around these days it seems that increasingly more people seem to be scared by the prospect. If you extrapolate that trend where will it lead us? Maybe there are just things we don't want to know. (See also The Right Not to Know).

It seems to me there's a sentiment in the air that we need more "spirituality," more "magic," more "wonders" in our increasingly technological world based on mechanical engineering and computer algorithms. Some people want to "reinvent the sacred," others emphazise "emotional intelligence" or "the power of thinking without thinking." Blink.

. . .

...I think there is at any one time a limit to what humans can possibly know, possibly even a limit to what we can ever know and we should be more aware of that. That means for example instead of being scared by gaps in our knowledge it or discarding them as a failure of scientists we should recognize the relevance of acknowledging and dealing with uncertainty, incomplete knowledge and 'unknown unknowns,' as well as be vary of The Illusion of Knowledge.

But besides that putting an emphasis on rationality neglects other cognitive abilities we have. For example, many of us have on some occasion met somebody who, through their experience, have developed a strong intuition for what might or might not work. Even though they might not be able to come up with any precise "rational" argument, they have a feeling for what seems right or doesn't. Granted, they might be mistaken, but more often then not you'll benefit from listening to them. One of the most important gifts, so I believe, of the human mind is to make what Plato called on some occasion at this blog an 'intuitive leap' into the unknown. Without such leaps our space of discoveries would be strongly limited. Rationality isn't always the path towards progress. (While not many insightful points were raised in the aftermath of the publication of Lee's book, I found it very interesting what Joe Polchinski had to say on the role of rigor in physics.)

http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2009/05/future-of-rationality.html

* Sabine 'Bee' Hossenfelder is a theoretical physicist at the Permimter Institute is Waterloo, Ont, Ca.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
Nov 2, 2010 - 05:35pm PT
Perhaps the most important question in all of this for many is... who's got the narrative that's most inspiring, most motivating, most empowering to live by, the Pope or Hawking?

Personally, I oscillate. In my answer. Depending on (a) who I have in mind - not necessarily myself - and (b) the circumstances - not necessarily my own.


EDIT

Probably varies, too, as a function of age group. (In my teens, 20s and 30s, equally motivated by chasing women, I didn't oscillate so much.)

....

Adam, much agree with all that.
Crodog

Social climber
Nov 2, 2010 - 05:41pm PT
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Nov 2, 2010 - 05:44pm PT
This is a pretty cool aplet that moves you from the Plank scale all the way through to the entire universe:
http://htwins.net/scale/

Just grab the little scroll bar and move it to where ever you want... IT'll give oyu a GREAT understanding of the whole scale of things, both small and big.
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