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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 22, 2005 - 04:22pm PT
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Have you experienced this?
A few years ago I was on a corniced ridge nearing the summit of a virgin peak in NW China with friends, when a big ominous cloud enshrouded us. Soon it was white out conditions, fog, driving corn snow, and super high winds. Suddenly there is a strange sound, louder than the wind, like an old radio tuner between stations. It fluctuated in pitch as you turned your head, higher to the right, lower to the left. I thought I was hallucinating (It’s day two of what was supposed to be a one day climb, turned out to be three days) and zoned out on my ice axe for a minute which also changed the pitch as I raised it and plunged it into the snow. I looked up the rope. Doug, 50’ away, pointed to his ear and shrugged his shoulders. He heard it, and below, Jed heard it too. Something slapped me in the back of the head. I raised a hand to head and received a strong static shock. Realizing we are in an electrically charged cloud I note the amount of metal on me and fear electrocution. I yell to Doug, but my words are taken by the wind. He gets shocked also, and we all start running back down the ridge. Half an hour later we are a good way down, the storm cleared as quickly as it came in and we could see that we had been spitting distance from the summit. We never heard thunder or saw lightning. Instinct said “get the F- down now” but I’ve always regretted not tagging the top.
Here the peak is hiding in cloud again, shortly after a long descent.
So far I haven’t found documentation of this strange radio sound and no clear condition reports surrounding lightning during snowstorms. We were near 18,000’ on the border of Kyrgyzstan near the Taklimakin desert, so the air was pretty dry, all things considered. We figured the snow was blowing over the cornice in a circular manner, building static between corn snow particles, it felt like we were about to be zapped. I’ve had close calls in the Sierra, but this was different. Would love to hear if anyone else has experienced it and/or can explain the physics.
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Chris W
climber
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Dec 22, 2005 - 06:53pm PT
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I have experienced Humming rocks and serious static (My Dad's and my hair was standing straight up.)in total white out conditions. There was thunder and lightning before the clouds moved over the peak causing total white out conditions. You could see the lightning and here the ear pearcing CRACKS of THUNDER simultaneously. Very scary stuff! This happend up on Mt. Elbert in Colorado with my Dad.
But never heard radio signals??? That's pretty strange? Only could hear bells ringing inside my head. It would be cool to actually hear a radio station. Maybe, it had something to do with the rocks?? I but Werner knows or has a theory on the subject.
ACtually, I clicked on the RC.COM....lots of interesting stuff to be said about it.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 22, 2005 - 10:06pm PT
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We didn't hear radio stations, it was a high pitched whining sound, like what you used to hear between stations on an old analog radio tuner. I've heard of people picking up radio signals from their braces (teeth), which was annoying because they couldn't turn it off or change the channel. maybe an urban myth though.
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wonderbread
climber
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Dec 23, 2005 - 12:19am PT
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The braces thing was actually on a recent episode of "Myth Busters," which as it turns out, is an urban myth...no surprise.
However, humming or even radio static like sounds should be plausible/normal when you were up there, there just isn't quite enough energy at that point to create lighting-the energy is just at a different level on the electromag spectrum. Though static should be normal, if you were listening to AM radio at the time there would be interference.
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Chris W
climber
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Dec 31, 2005 - 05:19am PT
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I read the little article in Climbing no. 200 year 2000. Wow, That sounded like an adventure. THE HAPPY BIrTHDAY SURPRISE! Same Month of Matt Samet's Eldo article and the little thing about Hank Caylors EPIC! How can Mike Liebecki (sp?) suffer so hard and still live so many times? He has like, more then 9 lives. It was also a cool issue because a few people wrote in from Michigan in the opinon section. A U-..pper from Marquette and someone near Ionia near Lansing or maybe near Grand Ledge?
That was a great read. I blew my knee out in Big Sky and was out for the season 2000/2001 when that mag came out. Read that mag so many times while doing the hotel switch board thing with my leg elevated above my head. Just dreaming of Eldo sandstone.
To funny. Maybe it was Russia sending out propagonda signals or something like that?
Oh yeah, There is a pic of Leo Houlding with the biggest sh#t eating grin on his face holding a spliff? or maybe a rolled up cig? In that same issue.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 31, 2005 - 01:19pm PT
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Let me speculate... special conditions exist to charge up the clouds, and while I don't believe the details are completely known, there is a lot of research that has been done over the years to try to figure it out (see e.g. http://snowball.millersville.edu/~adecaria/ESCI340/esci340_cp_lesson10_electricity.html).
But the clouds do become charged with respect to the ground, and the "buzzing" or "static" sound is the discharge of the cloud to the ground. I think it is akin to the sound under electric transmission wires, which will discharge audibly in particular weather conditions (cold, dry).
You are sitting on the ground, so your potential is roughly the ground potential (depends on how well you are electrically insulated from the ground though). As you move things around, you are penetrating different parts of the the electric field in the cloud... so the buzzing changes depending on how much electricity you are shunting.
You are a poor lightning rod...
In general, this is not a good thing to be (a statement that doesn't require rocket science to understand) but the event is relatively common among mountaineers. I suspect that the danger is not as grave as one would think. In ligtning strikes on climbers the story scenarios are almost universal: nothing was noticed before the strike that was unusual, the stuck climber generally does not recall anything prior to being stuck, no buzzing, static, nothing.
Don't know what it all means, but usually I get the hell out of Dodge when I start buzzing too.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Dec 31, 2005 - 02:53pm PT
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An article I read in Science in the early 70’s told of a researcher trying to find the cause of the crackling sounds heard under very high voltage transmission lines in the interests of improving efficiency. He tried recording the sounds to no avail. There was no sound. Intense electromagnetic radiation (radio waves or microwaves) was inducing currents in the brain that were perceived as sound. The effect was reproduced in their lab
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Ouch!
climber
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Dec 31, 2005 - 03:11pm PT
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That's kinda odd. The 60 cycle hum is definitely audible and the buzz from transmission lines that produces the hissing and spitting sounds is probably corona discharge. The vibration of alternating current increases with loading and may set up buzzing sounds from loose hardware. Or maybe the Jerry was ODing on ozone.
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Chris W
climber
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Dec 31, 2005 - 07:10pm PT
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Ed,
Are you saying the clouds picked up Charged (+?) (-?) from a electrical storm and was carried some kind of distance and then released lightning to get back to 0?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 31, 2005 - 07:24pm PT
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ChrisW - the clouds get charged by the transport of stuff (raindrops, ice crystals, etc) on the internal wind currents, think about rubbing your sweater with a balloon. At least that is one idea on how it all works... so the clouds are full of stuff that is charged.
Look at the Feynman Lectures, vol II chapter 9...the electrical field of the atmosphere is something like 100 Volts/meter, pointing down. So if you are standing up and are 3 meters high, your head is in a 300 Volt equipotential, but at zero volts (because you are connected to the ground at zero volts).
At 50,000 m is a high conduction band, which is at 400,000V with respect to the ground. A picoamp (10^-12)/meter-squared current flows from this band to the ground.
The charge separation in the clouds is what is mysterious.... perhaps someone has figured it out by now. But the clouds have all this stuff in them... and if you're there too you get to see it up close and personal.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2006 - 03:26pm PT
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I had this nice post going, then the storm (appropriatly) blew out our power.
Chris, yeah, it was quite an adventure. Libecki has an amazing inner drive, is introspective and analytical. You might remember the underlying concept of that article was on how climbs can be broken down into mathmatical equations. Identify the known risks, and obstacles, look for variables, control or overcome them... create a formula for success. He doesn't have nine lives. He takes calculated risks- the best formula for staying alive in the mountains- and knows when to back off. We played chess over and over and over on that trip and I lost every game. (Talk about a good way to get frustrated during a storm.)
The lightning, or whatever it was, was wierd because there was no buzzing or crackling, the normal kind of thing. Just this high pitched fluctuating wailing sound that I can only describe like a radio dial, because it seemed so electronic. And, we were in this blasting snow storm on a huge cornice where snow was blowing like a giant cylinder over the ridge. Static between corn snow particles in the dry cold air seemed plausable when you consider the rotating movement of the air. It was so eerie. Then a shock between hand and head- didn't seem like the norm. We thought graupel had something to do with it. Who knows. I've read a bunch of stuff online and none of it matches the situation.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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From a Google search of: electromagnetic sound brain - I found a lot of info on the electromagnetic stimulation of the brain. It can cause sound, mood, and vision effects. Some research claimed almost any sound could be conveyed on radio or micro waves, even speech:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frey_effect
http://homepages.tesco.net/~John.Dawes2/ingalls.htm
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/mindnet/mn159.htm
http://www.rhfweb.com/hweb/shared2/Newrad.html
1. Sounds (Pings, Clicks, Other), Acoustic Messages, & Buzzing Noises my be felt near and on the human body as created by microwave pulsed adiograms or microwave synthetic telepathy being broadcasted at a human target.
2. Images, holographic images, virtual reality images,synthetic telepathic images may be felt near and on the human body as created by microwave pulsed holography or microwave synthetic telepathy being broadcasted at a human target.
http://www.datafilter.com/mc/c_controlOfChoiceAbstract.html
http://www.angelfire.com/or/mctrl/electrowarfare.html
http://www.mk-resistance.com/ecm_apps.html
http://www.sumeria.net/tech/emfwar.html
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2006 - 07:00pm PT
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Cool. Now we're getting somewhere.
...An interest in problems connected with re-entry bodies in the atmosphere led to an interest in reports of "hearing" meteors and auroras. The hearing of meteors was supposedly under conditions requiring sound to travel at a velocity far exceeding the velocity of sound in air at 343 M per second, probably approaching the velocity of electromagnetic wave propagation. At this time there was a report of someone hearing a radar at an installation in Turkey. On investigation, this proved to be true.
A like radar was found in the United States and a meter secured for field strength measurements to avoid overexposure and possible damage to the eyes, brain, or other parts of the body. Although there was considerable ambient noise, the radar could be heard by a person who immersed himself in the edge of the beam, the center of the beam being strong enough to be hazardous. The sound was something like that of a bee buzzing on a window, but with, perhaps, more high frequencies.
Possibility of the effect being noise by sound waves from the radar was eliminated by placing a large (about 3 by 3 foot) square of window screening between the observer and the radar, close to the observer. With the screen shield in place, the radar sound disappeared. A hole was cut in the screening, large enough to put the ear through. When the ear was put through the hole, there still was no sound. The only part of the body which allowed the observer to hear the radar was a place on the head above the forehead.
From this, it appears that the electromagnetic wave effects the nervous system at the brain directly and does not use the normal auditory channels. No disturbance in the visual senses was found, although a search was made. Possibly the like visual senses are shielded more by the head.
The sound seemed to come from about a meter or two above the head. This varied somewhat with individuals. Placing the fingers to cut out ambient sound made the source seem to come down to the very top of the head. This is the same spot on the head at which the source seems to be when two well-separated loud-speakers with identical excitation are used and the observer is located at equal distances from the two speakers and facing them, Placing the fingers in the ears in reasonable ambient noise does not seem greatly to affect the threshold value at which the radar is heard...
"The "hearing" of electromagnetic waves is an established fact. It appears that this takes place by direct stimulation of the nervous system, perhaps in the brain, thus bypassing the ear and much of the associated hearing system. It is a possible, perhaps the most probable, explanation of the reports of hearing meteors and auroras."
Craziness! I don't know if that was what we experienced, but it seems like something similar. I was tripping out because I couldn't tell where the sound was coming from. I thought it was from the cornice at first. Moving the head back and forth, or the ice axe up and down changed the sound pitch up or down.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Random electromagnetic pulses generate sounds called whistlers and spherics caused by storms and lightning.
http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/audiofiles-geomagnetosphere.htm
These are recorded using a radio reciever. But if you're right in the storm it seems one may "hear" them directly.
It seems that your comparison of the sounds to those heard on an old radio was more than apt. What you heard was not only like the radio sounds they were the actual phenomena first hand without the need for the radio!
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2006 - 09:05pm PT
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Incredible. That sounds just like it, but it was louder than hell with wind and snow blasting all around. If my memory is correct, the pitch would remain constant if you stood still, but by moving, the pitch changed in accordance with how fast you moved.
Try this: turn your head to the right and whistle a high note, then slide the pitch of your whistle to a low note as you turn your head to the left. Far left is a super low note. Get the idea? If you move your head faster back and forth, maintaining the up/down fluctuation, it will replicate the same sound idea as the out of tune radio. That's how it worked (Dont' get yourself dizzy). Same with moving the ice axe. Now stick your finger in a light socket for the full effect! (edit)
Wierd eh?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Here is another strange phenomena... related to clouds, but not to electricity... it is amazing though when you are walking the approach in that sort of waking sleep of an alpine start that you can be surprised to find your shadow sporting a halo.
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andy_reagan
climber
NC
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Ed,
I used to see that phenomenon from time to time while skydiving. The rainbow halo would center around either the shadow of my falling body or the plane I was riding in. Very cool.
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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I remember a somewhat similar (perhaps less severe) experience to what Jerry is describing. We were on a fourth class ridgeline at 14,000ft. in the San Juans and only a few hundred horizontal feet away from the summit when an approaching thunderstorm caused strange noises and vibrations all around us. The weather really wasn't bad at all but I felt like a human radio antenna. It was weird enough that we opted to bail despite being only minutes from the summit.
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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So far I haven’t found documentation of this strange radio sound
I experienced this (along with ozone smell and tingling on my scalp) on the summit of Cathedral Peak this August.
Needless to say, we got the @%&^%$ off of there as quickly as we could.
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