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Trad
Trad climber
Northern California
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 9, 2008 - 09:41pm PT
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I've climbed TM's Deviation at Sugarloaf 5 or 6 times now and it's a worthwhile adventure every time.
On the first attempt my partner and I spent an hour-and-a-half at the base of the upper squeeze/OW section. We swapped leads, tried left side in, right side in, chicken wing, etc., etc. but ultimately turned tail and ran. (Like the bunny scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail. RUN AWAY!! RUN AWAY!!) On the plus side we discovered you can bail via the 3rd-class Pony Express finish if you're willing to do a runout traverse and downclimb over chossy rock on sketchy gear.
A couple years later, thinking my wide-climbing skills had improved, I returned with a different partner and spent another 45 frustrating minutes grovelling at the same spot. I seriously considered bailing but the thought of having to come back yet AGAIN inspired a maneuver that, while somewhat scary, seemed relatively easy once it was over. Basically, you ever-so-carefully work your toes left along the horizontal crack and reach left fingertips out to a big knob, jam arm- and kneebars into the flaring chimney on the right, bump left foot onto a mossy dish, struggle a bit until you can hand/foot match on the big knob, stand up and whoo-hoo!! It's over! (Except for the more technical crux higher up, but at least that's protectable and doesn't involve chimney or offwidth technique.)
It was good to finish but I never felt quite right about it. Deep down I knew that real climbers would stay inside for an honest fight, and I've gone back again and again over the years intending to climb it 'right' but each time wound up resorting to the stem/bar cheater method.
(A quote comes to mind: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results.")
Well, last week when I got an email from Rick looking to climb I proposed TM's Deviation, knowing of his affinity (or at least tolerance) and experience with wide stuff. I figured if I can't lead the dang thing then maybe at least I could learn something by following!
The first pitch starts up West Chimney and then continues farther up through some semi-choss (it's an adventure, after all) before traversing abruptly right to a belay on a comfortable ledge at the base of a bombay chimney. It's almost a full 60 m.
(Side note: the next part can be done as one long pitch but I prefer splitting it into two because of past problems with (a) serious rope drag and (b) communication.)
Since Rick was game to lead the flaring chimney/OW pitch higher up I got to lead the bombay chimney. It's a little strenuous and scary but at least there's a good ~finger-sized crack in the corner where you can sew it up:
Above the bombay chimney there's a nice hand crack section, which would be even nicer if more people would climb this route and wear off some of the moss and lichen out on the face that makes you think your feet are going to blow out any second. Here's Rick coming up that part:
Just above that there's a relatively comfy belay alcove where you hear ghostly voices. Not in your head but instead I think they're somehow echoing all the way through from the base on the other side. Kind of interesting. It's always a little chilly in there too, but it's a good idea to be well-padded on that route anyway.
Rick arrived at the belay as I waited in eager anticipation to observe and learn.
Here's Rick just above the belay, enjoying the last decent stance and pondering the upcoming flare. Note (a) the helmet and (b) the #5 camelot. Turns out neither help much. The #4 camelot (old size), however, is very useful. The aforementioned cheater knob can be seen out left.
Here's he is starting up the OW/squeeze. You can see why this can seem a little intimidating: the chimney flares both OUTward and DOWNward.
Every time I look at that picture I'm impressed by Rick's kneebars and ankle flexibility. (Note the helmet is now at his side. My only idea for head-area protection there is wearing tape across your nose.)
Here's Rick again about when the hard part eases.
And then, WHOO-HOO success! I was impressed.
It was another TM's Deviation adventure, almost complete. All that remained was for me to whine, curse, and thrash my way up but at least this time I didn't use the cheater knob. Next time I'm gonna lead that thing properly, I just know it...
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Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
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Great TR Trad. Thanks for posting.
Cracko
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Hot stuff, Trad!!
I followed that thing last winter, hoo boy! I even penciled in the guide "No helmet!!!" after I got down.
I think I might have rotated mid crux, with my toes on that rail. started right side in, then twisted at the rail and finished left in (so I could reach high to those fat rails.)
exciting!!
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Apr 10, 2008 - 12:00am PT
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This is a classic example of modern climbers dissin' the dudes that originated our "modern" style of climbing. TM was the Sh#t, And there aren't many climbers today that can cruise his test peices. New rubber better Pro, etc, TM and the ol' school boys climbed some Gnarly F$%^&$ stuff. 5..... Whatever doesn't mean a thing when bringing up 30+ year old routes into the mainstream. Careful folks these boys put up the Muir Wall and some other serious sh#t with Gear that you wouldn't know what to do with.Enjoy with a huge "Bag" of respect.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Apr 10, 2008 - 01:15am PT
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thanks for the TR, looks like really good stuff
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Willoughby
Social climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 10, 2008 - 01:31am PT
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Those pics call to me like the Siren's song. Definitely on the to-do list. I was up there on Saturday, and heard similar voices, coming from deep within the formation, at Scheister/Harding's 2nd belay. It was more than a little bizarre that I could completely make out a conversation that was being had at a normal speaking volume, coming straight through the loaf (from who knows where?). Wonder if that was you guys, and you were hearing us. By the way Mark, how is this an example of anybody disrespecting TM et al.? Reads more like humble reverence to me.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Apr 10, 2008 - 07:50am PT
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i learned from the man hisself that TM was actually his name. it does not stand for anything. but i guess he was sort of a prankster....
mini story:
we were climbing at pie shop a few years ago and there was an older fella soloing up and down all around us. he finally approached us on lunch rock (table rock?) and told us our jamming techniques needed work, and would we mind if he tied in with us. i think he introduced himself at this point. so he ties the rope around his waist (no harness) and spends the day following us up routes, critiquing our style. we finished on deliverance. i took a small fall onto a #4 camelot and he was astonished. his reknowned humor showed its face throughout the day.
anyone know if he is still in the lake tahoe area? if he is, he is probably more active than i.
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Trad
Trad climber
Northern California
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2008 - 11:45am PT
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Not sure about tahoe area, but in summer 2006 I met TM Herbert on top of Stately Pleasure Dome. He was offering beta as we came up the last pitch of South Crack, and waited for us as we topped out.
I wondered if it was him so introduced myself, and after he confirmed my suspicions I started gushing about how much I liked his route at Sugarloaf (i.e. this thread's topic). He responded in self-effacing manner, staring off into the distance and back in time "...oh, that old piece of choss...now who'd I put that up with?..."
When he learned my partner was from the east coast he started telling stories from his old guiding days, and how climbers from the east weren't used to slab and terrified by the descent, and then insisted on showing us the "easy" way down off the dome telling stories all the way. It was pretty cool.
Willoughby, yeah, that could've been us. We were in the belay alcove around mid/late afternoon Saturday.
Anyway, hope the TR wasn't taken the wrong way as I have only the utmost respect for the route and its early ascentionists.
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Willoughby
Social climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 10, 2008 - 12:46pm PT
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Mid- to late-afternoon for us too. If we ever need to meet somewhere to exchange military secrets, plot out the revolution, or just whisper sweet-nothings into the granite, I guess that'll be the spot.
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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Apr 10, 2008 - 01:03pm PT
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Nice TR Trad. That looks a bit spooky there. Maybe you were hearing the ghosts of the past.
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Apr 10, 2008 - 02:44pm PT
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I also met TM on top of Stately Pleasure.
He said that he had guided Great White Book (can't remember exact number- hundreds?) of times.
Later, I thought- maybe it was a hand crack before all that!
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renoenvy
climber
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Apr 10, 2008 - 03:48pm PT
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TM's around.
He's in Reno
I used to work with him at the Patagonia warehouse.
He recycles boxes.
And squeezes baby's cheeks.
And bird watches.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Apr 12, 2008 - 08:28am PT
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had noticed TM's polished worm drive
the few times lucky enough to climb w/ him;
always wide stuff, flares and things.
TM is, IMO a cult national treasure
and man, does he have some stories.
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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Feb 26, 2009 - 01:28pm PT
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Bump for some wide-ness!
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scuffy b
climber
just below the San Andreas
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Feb 26, 2009 - 02:03pm PT
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That looks like a good fun outing.
Thanks for the report.
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Feb 26, 2009 - 05:47pm PT
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scuffy, spyork,
What are you doing this afternoon? If we leave now we can just make it up that thing before dark. Maybe we can pick up Trad on the way.
Whatdyasay?
Zander
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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Feb 26, 2009 - 06:23pm PT
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Geez, I'm working, or I'm supposed to be!
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Trad
Trad climber
northern CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2009 - 08:51pm PT
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I'm working too. Pick us up tomorrow morning, but make it look like a kidnapping!
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Feb 27, 2009 - 03:22am PT
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Tough Mother himself
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Trad
Trad climber
northern CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2009 - 01:31am PT
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Is it legal to post follow-up TRs?
Since no one picked us up from work last week, spyork and I took it upon ourselves to undertake a Saturday Sugarloaf excursion for another TMs Deviation adventure. Sorry about the near-identical bombay chimney shot below, but the available stances limit photo options.
The route STILL isn't getting enough traffic to wear off the moss.
I got to lead the upper squeeze/offwidth part this time. Upon much reflection I decided that using the knobs out left is not cheating after all (especially since I can't edit the #%&@& original post!). In fact, maybe that's why it's called TMs Deviation to begin with. I mean, why go through some mundane grunting and struggling when it's easier and just as terrifying to inch your way out left where you can't see your toes, and then do the reachy-knob-stem-mantle/right-arm-bar-knee-bar move? Steve brought along his #9 Valley Giant, which was comforting for that part.
Afterwards we took turns leading Pony Express to stretch out and relax. Believe it not you can actually place a #9 Valley Giant on Pony Express.
We polished off the day on some fun, previously unclimbed (for us) routes on Split Rock. There's a good view of Bolee Gold from there, too.
By then it was late and Sunday's storm was on its way so we gathered our gear and headed home.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Trad
That silhouette shot is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!
cheers
guido
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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scwheet
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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Nice follow up, Trad! In terms of rack, you're saying up to #4 should do it? Always felt the allure of this line.
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Trad and spy,
I'm disapointed. You went with out me. You didn't call, didn't write.
Awesome and fine pics though!
Thanks,
Zander
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Dirka
Trad climber
SF
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Whoop Whoop!
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Trad
Trad climber
northern CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2009 - 11:46am PT
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Re: the #4, yes I think so. The chimney seems to constrict down in such a way that nothing else fits very well until you get down to the #4 placement way inside. It's a real stretch - I have to push the stem of the camelot with my fingertips in order to get the cam into place (much to the dismay of the follower!). There's good gear options in the horizontal crack at the base of the chimney too, finger-sized to slightly larger. The #9 VG fit the wider part of the chimney really well, and was a lot easier to place than the #4.
(Zander, after you didn't pick us up on Friday we figured you didn't care... ;) )
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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Fukkin hard even on top rope!
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Oct 18, 2009 - 12:13pm PT
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My buddy Mike and I went up yesterday and did this little rascal. Trad, we split the pitch in two just like you suggested. I did the squeeze right side in but I had to use the knob. Now I see the pics I should have been left side in!!!! Godfrey Daniel!! That last move at the top is hard for us short stubby guys. I forgot my belay device, but, you know, the munter works great. We had great day. Sugarloaf is awesome.
Climb on!
Zander
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 18, 2009 - 01:16pm PT
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last time I climbed outside all the holds were "on"
last summer at Vedauwoo, Mainstreet right side in and use the face features was doable for me with a bad back, probably 5.10a, two years before left side in is much more strenuous and requires sustained OW technique... my guess is more difficult than 5.10a
Found the crux of Orange Juice Avenue 5.10a a bit more doable if you leave the crack and use the edges on the face... maybe that's "cheating" but I don't think so.
Starting Generator Crack without using the inside edge?
Trick is to not get locked into a notion of how to do the climb, but to be ready to adapt to the situation.
Good on you guys... I haven't been up to that area in years... maybe this winter if everything knits back together
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Oct 18, 2009 - 01:34pm PT
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Ed, Lets go up there and do that rascal. The entire climb is good from the first pitch on up. I think trying not to use the knob is just a way to improve your OW technique. It's called "Trad's Challenge". If you don't use the knob you have to buy Trad a beer. Wait, is that right?
Zander
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 18, 2009 - 01:44pm PT
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Never done that one, looks, 'crazy'.
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Zoo
climber
Fremont, CA
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Oct 18, 2009 - 06:10pm PT
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Zander did a great job leading this right side in, helmet on then off then on again. I fell on my first attempt when I leaned out toward the knob. On the second attempt, I gained the knob, only to find that the rope was stuck in the crack at the top of the little roof. After retreating to the safety of the crack, Zander was able to unstick the rope, finally I did the tip toe out, grabbed the knob, stepped up on a dish and was able to stem from the main wall to the arete and gain a foot on the knob to finish it off. It was just one part of a great day on some of the great climbs at Sugarloaf.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Oct 18, 2009 - 07:52pm PT
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cool TR's!!!!
Love them pics
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Trad
Trad climber
northern CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 19, 2009 - 12:07am PT
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Glad to hear you finally got up on that thing!
I did the squeeze right side in but I had to use the knob. Now I see the pics I should have been left side in!!!! Godfrey Daniel!!
Oh well, you have to go back up there and climb it again. Fortunately Sugarloaf season is just starting so you've got another 5 or 6 months. Sounds like Ed's interested but if you need a partner let me know. I never get tired of that route, even if I can't lead it left side.
Kind of tenuous even using the knob, huh? (Stuck rope or not!)
a way to improve your OW technique. It's called "Trad's Challenge". If you don't use the knob you have to buy Trad a beer. Wait, is that right?
Ha ha. *I* will buy you guys TWO beers if you climb it left side in, no knob. Three beers if you post the photos!
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Feb 16, 2011 - 02:41pm PT
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Gary Carpenter and I went up and did this rascal. Our friend Mike (Zoo) was climbing Pony Express so he got some pics from the side of the route.
Here's two shots of Gary leading the bombay flare on the second pitch.
A little farther away.
You can see the squeeze crux high above in the photo. The technical crux is above that.
Here's a pic of Bob (Seneca) on the second pitch of Pony Express. You can just see me leading the second part of TMs up and right.
In the pic I'm trying to come up with a strategy. I lead it right side in last time. This time I turned around and did it left side in. I think left side in is easier.
The first time I did it I had few moments of doubt on the technical crux above. This time it went better. I made a lot of small moves and pretty much dink and dunked it to the top. Still, I did a bit of a beached whale move at the end but all's well that ends well.
Good climb. Gary wants to do it again to try different strategies including not having to clean the #4 with his nut tool. Ha ha. If he leads it then that will be my contribution!!
Zander
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Feb 16, 2011 - 02:59pm PT
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Man oh man, looks like sugarloaf is the place to be! I was there 2 weekends ago on Pony Express drooling over this line (and ran into Trad too), and I'm going back there this weekend. Probably will have to wait for this route though, cuz there's a limit to how many suffer-fest climbs my lady will do.
Glad to see y'all out there representing the eastbay wide club!
Zander, we have some unfinished business on Middle Cathedral... I hope you're training!
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Feb 16, 2011 - 04:12pm PT
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Oh Yeah Scott,
If the fates allow we will meet on North Buttress this spring!
Z
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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Feb 16, 2011 - 06:34pm PT
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T.M was a great guy to climb with. Always kept you laughing! I bet he is really enjoying his grandchildren, as am I!
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Feb 16, 2011 - 07:07pm PT
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One of the all-time photos of TM by Fidelmann
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Trad
Trad climber
northern CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2011 - 10:15pm PT
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That's a great portrait. Sounds like some of you folks know TM Herbert; if you could get him to give some details on the first ascent of this route it would be great!
But - the matter at hand - ST won't allow me to edit my last post so apparently I owe someone 3 beers and I always honor my debts. Please advise on brand.
Nice job guys!
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Trad
Trad climber
northern CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2011 - 08:45pm PT
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As luck would have it, my partner and I arrived at the base while you guys were climbing TMs and can add a few more pictures of the ascent:
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Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Feb 20, 2011 - 07:54pm PT
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Last time a guy asked TM to give him some details on a route he had done he replied,
Some guy wrote me about that Baja Rock. Sh?t! I can easily remember my name and age, but things like what route we did no way
maybe what model and year car I have
would he accept that
do you think?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 20, 2011 - 10:03pm PT
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ok everyone who's done the "hand" pitch of The Yawn, look at those hands!
you can't complain...
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Willoughby
Social climber
Truckee, CA
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Feb 24, 2014 - 01:03am PT
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I also like this thread, and am bumping it.
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MisterE
climber
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Feb 24, 2014 - 09:28am PT
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Last time I ran into TM in Tuolumne, we chatted for a bit then I asked him if he was still climbing?
He looked at me horrified and said: "At my age? Are you kidding? That stuff is dangerous!"
;)
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