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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
climber
Calyfucinphornya
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 7, 2006 - 09:08am PT
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I just put up a new route at Sugarloaf.
Bewilderbeast 12a or b (tentative). It starts up Beast of Burden. At the 3rd bolt the route traverses left into the center of the face and continues to the top. Total of 10 Bolts and 2 knobs (one optional). It has some cool knob moves with some long reaches but the crux is the technical stuff between. It is quite sustained in places. I think it's well safe but there are some hard moves with a bolt at or a below your feet. The rock is excellent. Its about 100 - 105ft and a 60 meter will just about get you down. It ends at the Gallows Pole anchor.
It is all cleaned up and awaits a second.
Aidan
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Sounds pretty cool. BoB is a classic. I think Jon Fox and I were looking at that face lo' years ago when we scared an owl out of Schiester and did BoB instead...
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coiler
Trad climber
yosemite
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So, is this another bolt over the top of the old runout route, like what was done to "Telesis" (at Sugarloaf) or "Arrowroot" (at lover's leap)?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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-knott to mention essentially retrobolting the classic Price-Smith at Phantom Spires,
and a 10b X route at Sugarloaf. Those added bolts loudly testify, and rob others of
any chance of doing the routes in the original, run-out style.
"Independant lines", my ass...
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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coiler, is arctic breeze a retrobolt of arrowroot?
I guess that would explain why I couldn't find arrowroot!
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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"ditto" with Coiler and Hardman...
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Chalky Fingers
climber
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Some people should not be allowed to bolt! This assclown is the worst!!!!
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scuffy b
climber
The town that Nature forgot to hate
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Is this what people mean by "mixed reviews?"
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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I dunno, seems like "12b" is not stanced very often. If Tripod() bolted the line I'm thinking of it's no retro. Maybe you're thinking of that 10c to the right a few hundred feet that wanders near a run 10b...but I won't be out at the loaf in the near future to looksee again.
Any of you guys done BoB? it's a testy little Mishler (Doug) route iirc. I recommend tight shoes...
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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at least it's a climbing topic. I've given up. I'm going to political topics.
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atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
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yea, I vote that only those who think they know it all should be allowed to bolt! How do I get on the allowed to bolt list?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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atch, I've added your name to the list. welcome aboard.
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atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
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suhweeeeett!!! Thanks caught, meet me at sugarloaf, I will bring the annihilator. I saw a new line that traverses from Bolee Gold, through Hooker's Haven, farley, the crux of Taurus and finishes on the fracture.
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Xela
climber
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426 wrote:
> Any of you guys done BoB? it's a testy little Mishler (Doug)
> route iirc.
Not that it really matters but Beast of Burden was a Chris Clifford route. One of the first rap bolted lines in the area.
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
climber
Calyfucinphornya
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2006 - 04:47pm PT
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It is always with some trepidation that I ever post on this chit chat page. Yet I always find myself enjoying the fray with the bad-mouthers that frequent it. As for coiler: If you payed even a half wit's attention to my report you will clearly understand it to be a new route that comes out of BOB at the 3rd bolt.
As for rebolting the "classic" Price-Smith. They took one of the most notable features on the upper spire got 40 feet up could not make it go bolting on lead and took a 90 degree left tun and bailed onto Roberts Crack 30 feet over. I considered it an incompleted line not a classic. I think I was taking liberties with it but could not get hold of either of them and it is a stunning feature. I think Lesbien Love that that follows this beautiful dike all the way up is killer, and enjoyed by many. Try it when its bathed in a nice Spires alpenglow for an amazing asthetic experience.
Re: Tapestry and Crushed Velvet. Before that route went in I spoke with Joel Moore who actually watched the FA. His opinion was that it was a new line and should be called as such. And so it was. If you actually get up on that face and look around you will see that Blue Velvet actually infringes on the old Tapestry route quite a bit.
Let's see, what else.
Chalky Fingers. All I can think is you must be one of those pathetic tossers that like to take ownership at the Leap every summer? Either way I suspect you could not climb any of the routes you bad mouth me about. So right back at you pal. Your a worthless wanker and I'll be climbing long after you've given up cragging and gone fulltime into your next career: Dumpster diving
Peace and Love
Aidan Maguire
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Thanks for the correction, Xela. I knew it was rapped and think it's a superb route. Fine arete climbing after the initial "bouldering"...maybe it was Doug who rec'd it to me...
Remember when tahoe had the "S" grade, fellas?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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hey aidan, check your email.
cheers,
dave
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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The "S" grade as in S.12c was for " Sport " or more specifically rap-bolted climbs in a vain attempt @ FA style reporting. Made a brief appearance in Basecamp/Climbing in 88'
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NoRushNoMore
climber
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Lesbien Love is a one fine line, very enjoyable climbing.
Keep doing what you doing and don't listen to aid crowd here, they are missing the point anyway
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coiler
Trad climber
yosemite
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"S" climbing has no place in proud trad bastions like Lover's leap, Phantom spires, and Sugarloaf. Up until Aiden & the ASCA club showed up on the scene there, you had to man up for the climbing. With the advent of the power drill the 3/8" bolts are showing up faster than they can be chopped! Too bad all the old classic lines are dissapearing so that climbing can become "Safe" for the masses!
So, Aiden, why do you post your FAs here? I've put up plenty of routes in those places, they're in the guidebooks as unknown FA. Some of them have grown bolts since the FA, is that you? I don't need to spray about my FAs, I just love to climb and have been doing so since '84. I've gotten known throughout the climbing world brcause of my love for the game... not my FA spray. Many of my routes have been claimed by others... but they know the truth, and so do you.
I was taught to bolt from Tucker Tech and Walt Shipley. They taught me to climb from the ground up, sometimes using hooks with a hand drill. I had a power drill in Humboldt but I sold it when I left there (Petch is still sore I didn't sell it to him) and I've rap bolted a few routes, but never at a trad area. Bolting over another mans route is one of the high crimes of climbing, and you know you're guilty, so why don't you put your drill away, and just go climbing on the weekends "for the hell of it" just like everyone else. You might just learn what trad means. You shouldn't need recognition for your feats. If you've noticed, you're the only guy in Tahoe bolting over the runouts (and spraying about your "proud acomplishments). Don't look out at everyone else and get mad... look within and see the truth.
For the love of the game- Coiler
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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FAing on hooks is better style than rap bolted.
But drilling from a stance is better style than drilling from hooks.
Why should you not then leave a climb alone that you require hooks for, until someone can do it from a stance?
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coiler
Trad climber
yosemite
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Because hooking is still on lead. I've taken some wingers drilling on hooks. It's still heads up... and it's still considered trad. anything else I can explain to the uneducated?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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actually yes. is artic breeze a retro of arrowroot?
if so, does it follow the same line throughout?
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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Oh Adian, so pathetic. As I have told you BEFORE (in the Leap parking lot) "I dare you to say that to Chalky's face." and again...you won't.
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
climber
Calyfucinphornya
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2006 - 12:17am PT
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Today I spent 45 minutes taking care of a 12 year old who was just placed on the heart transplant list. Some Christmas present!
This silly banter is all fun an all, and I really love getting out, but we all need to keep a little perspective.
Climb it, diss it, whatever. It's there and I'm done.
Bye for now
A
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Oddchick? Wingnut? Strangechick? Freakazoid?
Trad climber
Pollack Pines
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Sorry to break this to you Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?, but my partner Lorraine and I did the first ascent of the route you describe several years back. We protected the moves from the adjacent route which resulted in sporty (to say the least) lead on her part.
Just cuz you have a four-part nickname (and maybe a penis), does not mean you own the crag. If you can't do the route on existing pro, maybe you should stay in the gym.
Think about it Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?.....Thnk about it.
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
climber
Calyfucinphornya
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2006 - 02:50pm PT
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What a coincidence!
I did the very same thing to the now Bacher Yerian from the adjacent Shipoopi! Now that was sporty. I feel a sort of odd kinship toward you now.
Warmly,
Man with penis
~* ~* ~*
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ablegabel
Trad climber
Livermore,Ca.
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Dec 10, 2006 - 10:45am PT
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Well, well, highway 50's own little rap bolter is back spraying again about his latest over rehearsed, glorified top rope.
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Oddchick? Wingnut? Strangechick? Freakazoid?
Trad climber
Pollack Pines
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Dec 10, 2006 - 01:33pm PT
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There's no need to for you be a jerk Ablegabel, and like the other vultures (on this thread) go after poor Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?.
At least Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma? (though at times a rap bolter) is also a kiss-ass trad leader, whom (I've witnessed) onsighting many hard and scarey routes through the years. Far, the f*#k more than you and the other closet gay boys that hang out at the Leap parking lot and on this list.
Love,
Hazel
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Dec 10, 2006 - 01:43pm PT
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"What a coincidence! I did the very same thing to the now Bacher Yerian from the adjacent Shipoopi! Now that was sporty."
Yeah, I tried that too, but that Bachar Yerian was TOO scary! Some negligent jerk must have "put up" that route, because THERE WERE ALMOST NO BOLTS!!
So coincidentally a few weeks ago me and a buddy bolted Bachar Yerian. Safe for the sport/gym crowd now - because your safety is our business.
(The photo below shows you how Bachar Yerian is not really as steep as it looks in the photos - rather low angle, really):
All seriousness aside, what is this thread about again? And which bush do I go to at base of Medlicot to have sex?
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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Dec 10, 2006 - 02:12pm PT
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I don't know who Coiler, Hardman Knott, Apocalypsenow, Chalky Fingers etc are but I'd put my old fart, friend Aiden (hell, he's almost as old as I am) up against the best of you on a scarry trad route because I suspect the majority of you types have gained the majority of your "climbing experience" from forums like this rather than actually climbing. I've been slandered, too many times when posting to forums, only to discover that the slanderer was only a "Forum Climber". Hey, I just came up with a new climbing term.
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Rags
Trad climber
Sierra foothills, CA
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Dec 10, 2006 - 02:58pm PT
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Holy crap, look who just crawled out of the woodwork to post.
JR, while I respect you, I think your opinion may be skewed after hanging around with Cotrell, all those years, while he rap bolted Cal Dome.
No respect for tradition.
Be that as it may, I suppose those with drills and ropes will continue to bolt until every climbable face on the planet is grid
bolted. Gee, think of all the routes......
P.S. Forum education can be useful, when applied.
edit: This post was not to offend, merely to incite.
Guess it worked. Sent you an email JR.
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LoversleapTad
Trad climber
Lovers Leap
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Dec 10, 2006 - 03:45pm PT
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Hey, As a reformed slanderer, I just wanna say that I'm sick and tired of locals slandering certain "older" folks on their supposed rap-bolting. Turns out that these same "rap-bolters" (ie,Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?) have done some of the narliest trad least around.
Have any of you slanderers ever done Confeteracy of Dunces at the Leap? Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma? has and it is stout!
Have any of you parking lot hanger oners lead Queen Bee 5.11 d x? Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma? has and flashed it on marginal pro. I know cuz I watched and nearly sh#t my britches.
How about the rarely lead Pink Bikini next to the Moratorium in the Valley? I saw Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma? lead this super thin crack (12 c R) on micro-nuts. Though he onsighted the route, he never posted it on Supertopo, or mentioned it to anyone in the parking lot.
My point is that many of us both lead trad stuff and also clip (and sometimes place from above) bolts. Give the guy a break, and please do let me know how to find the chick in the bushes too.
Tad
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coiler
Trad climber
yosemite
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Dec 10, 2006 - 04:08pm PT
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First of all, let me say that "lovers' leap Tad" is not the real lovers' leap Tad. The real guy is a balls out trad climber who's lived at the leap for many eons! I know this because he has lived there with me! We have both watched as many of the scary leads of the leap that we have both done dissapear in the name of "safe" climbing. Aiden has repeatedly embarrased himself by making routes established in the 1970's turn into just another sport route.
The real Lovers' leap Tad would never say those things that the imposter Tad have said. I know this because I've climbed, partied, lived with the guy. I'll tell you this, he's done many of the "routes" that Aiden has "established" long before they had a bolt every 4 feet on them, Back when they were still proud "Trad" routes!
I cannot believe that Aiden continues to think of himslef as a "pioneer" of Tahoe climbing. Like I said, he's a legend in his own mind! If he had Half a sack he should come forward in this forum and explain why routes from 1970 would need more bolts than they have had for many decades? Also why would these routes need new names and first ascentionists? I guess it looks good on paper!
awaiting a response... Coiler!
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Oddchick? Wingnut? Strangechick? Freakazoid?
Trad climber
Pollack Pines
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Dec 10, 2006 - 04:36pm PT
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Second of all, I know "Yosemite Coiler" and you are not him; are you an imposter!!!
The Coiler I know is a nice fellow, not a jerk. I recommend you go back to the gym, stick with plastic and teenagers and leave us outdoor cragsters alone and free from your voracious slander.
Ethyll Hazeltone
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LoversleapTad
Trad climber
Lovers Leap
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Dec 10, 2006 - 06:19pm PT
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Coiler,
There's apparently more than one Lover's Leap Tad. I Tad (Weinstein) probably climbed Fantasia while you all were in diapers. My family and I now live in Taiwan, so my Lover's Leap days are a bit behind me.
I still say Aidan rocks! He climbs a bhundred times better than most of the parking lot wankers at the Leap and therefore a few new bolts here and there are justified. The guy is one of the best trad climbers I've ever known and has onsighted an amazing array of stuff (along hwy 50 and elsewhere).
Stay calm all!
Tad Weinstein
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coiler
Trad climber
yosemite
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Dec 10, 2006 - 07:09pm PT
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I appreciate Oddchicks endorsement... But when I see the proud Tahoe legacy get whittled away for one man's avarice... I turn mean. As all who have spent any time with me know that I have opened my home to many a dirty monkey. They would also know that I do not tolerate "climbers" who feel they need to bring the standard down so that they can feel they've acheived more. Many times have I left wired nuts, cams, and carabiners behind because I could not send a route if it was "to scary". And that's the difference in me and some other ASCA type climbers. I'd rather use the climb as inspiration to push myself and come back when I had the sack. Routes like "Deviate", "arrowroot", and so many others at Lover's Leap, Phantom spires, and Sugarloaf have grown bolts over the years (and that's just one example). All this in the same time period that Aiden got himself a powerdrill. It's tough to keep chopping these when they are "bolted" with a Bosh by someone with no regards to the proud history that's been laid before them. Aiden, I'm still waiting for your response to why you feel you must be the "steward" of Tahoe Climbing. A proud history that you feel needs to be changed with your VISION... of... the...FUTURE!!!
My name is Coiler... and I endorse this message!
Oh and P.S. Tad Weinstien is not the man of "Steele"- my proud climbing partner (who's not afriad to get his feet above a #1 wired nut) and is a good friend who loves the rock for what it is....Oh yeah, the real Lovers' Leap Tad and I climbed "Fantasia" together before it had any bolts...
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dank
Trad climber
the pitch above you!
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Dec 10, 2006 - 08:05pm PT
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If you don't like Aidan's bolts don't clip 'em!
Most of his lines are pretty darn clean, bolts are well spaced,
and all around solid.
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coiler
Trad climber
yosemite
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Dec 10, 2006 - 08:56pm PT
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Dank... YOU JUST DON'T GET IT, do you? Aidens bolts are over another route, that didn't have them before. He's not doing FAs, he's butchering EXSISTING routes! Put it together man, it's sacrilidge. "don't clip them" what a cop out. I guess you like to sport climb too. Great, go the the "gallery" in Red Rocks and pose with the other weenies. But Sugarloaf, Phantom Spires and Lovers' Leap aren't sport climbing areas, no matter what Aiden or guys like you think. Leave your drill at home and man up...
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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Dec 10, 2006 - 10:32pm PT
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COILER and others: You make it sound like Aidan has retrobolted all the scary routes up highway 50. I know you all have mentioned Smith-Price (Lesbian Love) at Phantom spires, Crushed Velvet at Sugarloaf, Fallen Hero and Catecholamine (previously called Confederacy of Dunces) at Lovers Leap as being examples of Aidan's over bolting tendencies. Aidan has explained on this forum that what he has done is totally appropriate and I haven't seen much to dispute what he has said. I just see a bunch of general innuendos such as Coiler's "All this in the same time period that Aidan got himself a power drill". Put up or shut up Coiler etc. tell us all of Aidan's transgressions so we can judge him a jerk or a hero. Rick (Rags): How's your bolting ban on El Cap going? (Remember Rick, I'm the only one to see you climb 5.12)(I still love you and always will)
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dank
Trad climber
the pitch above you!
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Dec 10, 2006 - 11:31pm PT
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coiler...i actually don't sport climb and have climbed outdoors my entire life...if you're so pissed go pull 'em out...you're just another dirtbag with an agenda like the rest of us...pretty soon you'll be retired and some punk kid is gonna shred all over your precious rock...get over yourself...your old news!
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
climber
Calyfucinphornya
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2006 - 12:49am PT
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Wow! Impressive quantities of slander and ill will been spewed by a handful of happy chaps on Supertopo.
Hey Coiler, I've got it now. You’re the guy that lived in a cave for two years in the valley. You’d come by to BS and scrounge up a beer or hit of pot before retiring back to your comfy abode.
Brian I think. Am I right? How come all you brave and noble boys have to use these manly handles instead of your name. Apocalysenow, oooooohhh!
Chalky Foreskin, er' I mean fingers.
and Coiler. Isn't this the name you received for the gargantuan odoriferous logs you could lay? Nice. I'm serious, that’s what I heard? I also understand that you have grown rotund in your advancing years (well, if you can't evolve your mind might as well expand your waistline). I suggest you change to handle from "Coiler" to "Boiler". Now that a name to be proud off.
Have you noticed that most of the time I put may name at the end. Why don't manly man replete with swelling testicles and nimble fingers actually drop the disguise and we can talk. Better still you can email directly, or even call on the phone. Best of all, let’s go climbing! It can be a small but intimate group. Chalky Foreskin, Boiler, Apoplecticnow and me the hypogonadal flimsy excuse of a trad climber. Let’s make the date!
Love and kisses
Aidan Maguire
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
climber
Calyfucinphornya
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2006 - 01:39am PT
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Dear boiler, Chalky Foreskin and Apoplectic Now, and the rest of the Forum fellows
The last posting was from IMPOSTER Tripod?, Swellguy?, Halfwit, Smegma. I personally know T,S,H,M and he would never
resort to such underhand tactics as four sylible words to confuse
the opposition.
A few clarifications:
I have never suggested I'm a "pioneer" in anything (Except perhaps a certain trick with my foreskin which is better left there).
Second: I've never placed a bolt four feet from another.
Third: I am a legend in my own lunchtime, not my own mind.
At the Leap I have only put up 3 routes. Hardly legendary!
One of them now called Catacholamine is immediatly left of Glaze her face. It is a route that was cleaned on Rap (it was extremly dirty), the rope was pulled and it was lead without prior TR, without bolts on very small gear. No rehersing. Its not that hard (10c) but very trad (R), and well worth doing.
It's funny how my token scary Leap route is nicely overlooked, as It does not fit the profile for the evil rap bolter who spearheads the demise of traditional climbing.
While I'm blathering, let me defend Will Cottrell. The reason anyone can climb much of Cal dome is because he, John R and a few others (not I)have spent a shitload of money and time REPLACING old way manky bolts and more importantly anchors. Cal dome is an amazing place, but the condition of many of the routes is pretty bad. It's true I think a few bolts have been added here and there out of ignorance of prior ascents, but as is typical of you wankers (isn't is great that "WANKERS" isn't automatically edited out?), The hundreds of hours restoring old routes without added bolts, building trails, and trying to topo routes so future generations can see the history is ignored. Your just a bunch of malcontents who can find little joy anything
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Oddchick? Wingnut? Strangechick? Freakazoid?
Trad climber
Pollack Pines
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Dec 11, 2006 - 01:25pm PT
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And just for your the record Coiler, as long as we're being honest. The word on the street is that you actually talk more than you climb. You have been witnessed dogging multiple route that you claimed you redpointed (and giving B.J.s to lowbaggers), and that you are a closet gay (not to be homophobic; I'm bi).
Coiler, the cat is out of the bag on your puny reputation. I think you should spend far less time slandering others and try to keep your own life and climbing style together.
Remember what your kindergarten teacher said; "if you don't have anything nce to say, say nothing at all."
And one more thing, other folks on Supertopo verified that you never actually climbed Fantasia. Turns out you were on the the 5.7 wth the nice pro three routes over.
love and kisses,
Ethyll Hazeltone
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pc
climber
East of Seattle
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Dec 11, 2006 - 02:29pm PT
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Someone added bolts to Fantasia? Cool. Now maybe I'll give it a go.
pc
BTW One of the better threads in a while.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Dec 11, 2006 - 05:45pm PT
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hey, off topic from all this tantalizing slander, but has Glaze her Face gone free?
And who is the mysterious Chalky Fingers?
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coiler
Trad climber
yosemite
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Dec 11, 2006 - 06:08pm PT
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Ah, I must have struck a nerve, judging by the verbal diahreah coming from your post! I'm sure your Supertopo sources which you will not name, follow me around everywhere I go climbing to verify what I do and do not climb. Yes, it was I that lived in a cave in Yosemite, but it was more like 6 years of that (before that I lived at the Lovers' Leap CG).And yes, I have evolved a bit and live in a house now. That cave thing was fun when I was in my 20's, I'm over it now though. Let that be an example of how much I love climbing, man I frickin' lived it. Now I've got a mortage and other things that take me away from climbing. I'm sure as hell not going to let some rap bolter take the proud climbing away when I do get a chance for it. You still haven't said why you feel it nescesary to re-bolt existing routes for the people, and why these "new" routes need new names. All of a sudden the conversation turns to Cal dome or what I have or have not climbed. I don't think my climbing is what's under scrutiny here, I'm not the one going full on public when I put a new route "up". Anyone who realy know who I am knows what I've climbed, and it's a shitload! Enough to where I don't let it run my life anymore, that's for sure. So, We're all still waiting for your explination....ready yet?
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
climber
Calyfucinphornya
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2006 - 03:00am PT
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My Dear Boiler,
Yes indeed! My nerves are wracked. Your clever replies, cutting remarks and rapier wit have left me a mere shell of my former self. I give in. YOU WIN. I will begin life anew tomorrow.
Anyway, listen. I dare say your not a bad sort? I get along with most people and can take a good piss-taking anytime. Here's the thing though: This Forum stuff is just a bunch of bullshit and you know as well as I do. Let's go climbing sometime. I'm quite serious. Not to see who can climb harder, scarier. Just to find some common ground. I will be happy to explain every route, every bolt, avery anchor I ever placed. I don't expect you to agree with it all, but thats ok. You can slag me off all day long. Hell, bring some friends along and you can have a feeding frenzy. I really don't mind. I enjoy a good debate. Or even a good slagging match for that matter. I feel fine, infact good about what I have contributed to the area.
Can you make it up to Sugarloaf this winter? Lets go up and do Ghost in the Machine? Beautiful, airy, a bit bold. It will take the edge off and then we can talk. Talk like men, not like girly girls bitch slapping in cyberspace to impress the crowd. Let me know when.
email me directly if you like.
ultraviolet@directcon.net
so long,
Aidan
PS it's diarrhea not diahreah (don't you wish Forum had a spell check?)
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Moof
Trad climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Dec 12, 2006 - 01:46pm PT
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Coiler,
I think I found your scratch awl, or whatever the heck you call it in your old cave. Rusty as all crap. Found it while stashing water for safe keeping after yet another BW solo failure. I think Mr. Steeler's found one of your biners with the orange paint in there a year and half ago. Nuetrino maybe? Looked like it was rigged for hanging a portaledge from.
Good times...
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Oddchick? Wingnut? Strangechick? Freakazoid?
Trad climber
Pollack Pines
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Dec 12, 2006 - 09:08pm PT
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Three questions Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?:
Firstly, did you feel any guilt when you retro-bolting Bachar-Yerian? Would you take me climbing too (though we have had a "relationship")? And, what color is your parachute?
Love,
Ethyll Hazeltone
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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Dec 13, 2006 - 12:52pm PT
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Jim Bridwell once said: "Ground up climbers start at the ground and go up". (This was in reference to on sighting a climb that doesn't have cracks or other features to use as protection, a face climb falls in this category). My take on this is: No prerehersal, No doing it on top rope before doing it "ground up", No beta from someone else that previously top roped it, and no aid climbing (no hooks etc). You go to base of a climb with a rope, a belayer and a bolt kit. You go up untill you find a stance and you drill a bolt. You then continue up until you find another stance and you drill another bolt. If you can't do it this way then leave the climb for someone else that can. I've seen too many climbers in the highway 50 corridor that violate these simple procedures and yet they say they are "Ground up climbers". I think that anyone who climbs using methods other than what I just described should not be criticizing people that employ any other method to put up a new climb.
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Tallskinny
Sport climber
Placerville, CA
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Dec 13, 2006 - 12:54pm PT
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Religious zealotry abounds. Find some ultra-religious church and take your battles there to defoul other folks. Bolting and/or safely bolting a route NEVER precludes anybody from doing an old route the way it was originally done, just warm up your huevos and do it that way! New bolts offer safety to those who are pushing a grade; all that you few hard and overspoken people have to do is look beyond and ignore them! Maybe you should just be freesoloing, right past all bolts, or maybe your quivering legs would end up shaking you off. Might we never get rid of these people who are so much better than the rest of us?
I will personally attest to Aidan's (not Aiden, btw) high standards in climbing and establishing routes. I've never seen him put in an excess bolt, in fact, he has avoided putting in pertinent bolts because of personal or external controversy. I will continue to be around to speak for Aidan's routes and to help him establish them when I can.
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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Dec 13, 2006 - 01:02pm PT
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Jerry: If you are saying it's akay to add bolts to an existing route, I disagree with you. (there are a few exceptions to this) John Robinson
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Moof
Trad climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Dec 13, 2006 - 02:01pm PT
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Guess we should put a dozen bolts on Double Cross for safety too then. Let's also put a few bolts on the start of Bear's Reach, and the first anchor while we're at it. Heck the crux of Deception Direct is a little hard to protect, let's add a couple there too. Safety First!
As best I can tell, nobody is saying bolts are inherently bad. But violating the local ethic by rap bolting an area with a strict grounds up tradition is BAD. Defiling an existing climb with extra bolts and calling is an FA merely beacause it has 10' of new climbing to link together sections of a pre-existing route is BAD. Such lack of ethics fully justify a chop job in my book.
If you want to put up new routes, find a new route, don't force in a pack job. If you want to rap bolt, go to a crag where the ethic allows it. Dumbing down old bold routes is not the answer.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Dec 13, 2006 - 04:31pm PT
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First, let me say adding bolts to an existing climb to make it safer is not good, and unethical. It ruins the mental challenge required to get on the climb.
Secondly, establishing a route on lead is better STYLE than on rap, also establishing it free is better than on hooks.
But if a climb will not go in ground up, should it not go in at all? I don't believe that, I believe the most important part of the FA is establishing a quality route, the style used to put it up is secondary.
violating the local ethic by rap bolting an area with a strict grounds up tradition is BAD
Why? I don't necessarily disagree with that, but is that a local ethic or a local style? (Hmm, Lost Arrow was fist climbed top down, so I guess Yosemite isn't a ground up area right?) The only ethical quandry I see here is who gets to do the route. Yes someone who does a route ground up gets a better challenge than someone who raps it, does that mean a rap bolter should leave it alone for the ground up guy? Following that logic someone who wants to do an FA on hooks should leave it for someone who can do it free. If not tell me why.
Rapping and power drilling are faster so that does factor into how routes are done. But does that override first come first served to a new route?
I bring up these questions because certain people have this absolute view of how things need to be. It's funny how the style they climb in is the exact same limit of what they think people should be able to do, but they haven't given me any good reasons why their reasoning is absolute. I can always point to a viewpoint that is more traditional (no aid should be used) or more sport (chip and grid bolt everything on rap) to show there is a continuum of positions.
I guess the saving grace is that people can go out and climb how they want, and others can go and chop bolts they feel are out of line, so in reality people will do what they want.
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wolfy
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Dec 14, 2006 - 04:28pm PT
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Hi,
You FAists should think about the life of a climb. Most of us that come along after you don't care about the FA and only are able to judge the climb on how we find it. And for most of us runouts on crappy old bolts = a bad climb. Sure it takes some killer stones to nut up it, but if you're talking about 30 foot or longer runouts that are a result of the FAist being too gripped to place more, or too cheep to buy more, then why have any at all? When you get bored and dejected just go speed-solo climb bears reach.
Of course when you're pushing 5.12 it doesn't make a difference to me. So the combo of a tempting 5.9 or 5.10 and an r or x rating is just lame for some(probably most) of us.
-M
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Dec 14, 2006 - 05:40pm PT
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I hate runouts on crappy old bolts too.
place them well, and replace them if they get old.
the runout part; sack up.
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JRock
Trad climber
Placerville, CA
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Jan 11, 2007 - 09:21pm PT
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Well, first of all this is my one and only post ever, lest I become an E-climbing zealot. I cant believe I wasted time reading such shite. This stuff reminds me of the type of crap that comes out of hanging with the crew of climbers that hang in the Lodge Cafeteria. I lived and worked in the valley for a few seasons and got to know many of the "Cafeteria crowd" individually. As individuals, most of this crew were interesting people and some were decent climbers. Yet, when together they became extremely pompus (sp?) and took on the mentality that they were the "keepers of valley ethics". One thing I noticed was that most of them didnt climb all that much. It was like talking about climbing was more enjoyable than actually doing it. Now thats sad, and I think this whole forum and anyone who wastes there time, including myself (albeit for only 1 and a half hours ever), medittating on every word and planning there next reply, is sad. Its like a bunch of 14 year olds arguing over a touchdown in a recess pickup game, except you are adults and you have time to think up some catchy slander. Of all the posts, I think that there were a total of 20 lines of decent discussion. The rest is childish banter. Another observation, you are all dudes, with perhaps one exception. Maybee you should see what the female climbers who are "in the know" think you should do about this situation...men are so stupid. Well, Im off to live my life now. You E-climbing zealots enjoy your E-handcracks and your E-Belay. The real men are out doing the climbing. And for the record, I backed off a 5.8 the other day.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jan 11, 2007 - 09:33pm PT
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promises, promises
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jan 11, 2007 - 09:42pm PT
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Style points for dredging up a thread that's been dead for a month to tell us all to shut up.
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jan 12, 2007 - 10:51am PT
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Hrmphf, with all that 'nefarious' activity on old skool routes from (preplaced pinz)Hooker's Haven to "Da Grand Illusion" I'd be remiss not to point out that Sugarloaf is kinda "anything but trad"...
Maybe the "Patey definition" of "hard core tradster"...
Locker style edit, for wolfy: anyone going for "DanO's" record on bears reach yet?
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Oddchick? Wingnut? Strangechick? Freakazoid?
Trad climber
Pollack Pines
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Apr 28, 2007 - 03:04am PT
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At one time or another, just about everyone is curious about something that most people find frightening, immoral, or just plain weird, but most of us aren't willing or able to take the time to investigate it. Not Christine Wicker. A former religion reporter, Wicker specializes in things that are hard, if not impossible, to explain. If you've ever been curious about what goes on in magic communities but were too afraid or embarrassed to find out, Wicker has done the work for you. She does slip in quite a bit of magic history here and there, but her main focus is on magical communities that exist today in neighborhoods and cities across America. She also infuses her chronicle with wry humor, as when discussing her ignorance of the occult due to being raised a Southern Baptist before "Christians became millionaires writing about gentle Jesus coming back to napalm unbelievers".
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Oddchick? Wingnut? Strangechick? Freakazoid?
Trad climber
Pollack Pines
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The real problem is, that the scoundrel from Placerville keeps putting up routes harder than all of you chicks can possibly pull up on.
The dude just cruised Astroman for the 5th time two weeks ago.
Honed beyond my estrogen's capacity to love......
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LoversleapTad
Trad climber
Lovers Leap
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Dec 15, 2007 - 02:17am PT
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So did this disturbing controversy ever get rectfied?
I sure hope so, cuz my testosterone levels have hit an all time low and I can't afford beer this month.
Donations can be sent to P.O. Box 220 Pollack Pines California, 95726. We accept checks, money orders and in special occasions visa cards...
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Oddchick? Wingnut? Strangechick? Freakazoid?
Trad climber
Pollack Pines
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Dec 16, 2007 - 02:41pm PT
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Okay Tad, my donation is in the mail. I also included a holiday card, a 12 pack of ribbed condoms and a small bag of weed. Hopefully the Department of Homeland Security's dogs won't smell it...
Until you get it, do me a favor. Don't let the air our of people's tires at the lower parking lot any more. One other thing; when you and I next consumate, try to keep the groans down cuz the people in the tent next to us made some strange comments about it the next morning.
See ya at the Cafe....and please stay calm!
As for the new route at Sugarloaf, did the controversy die down?
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Dec 21, 2008 - 10:06am PT
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JRock, I know of two women that have generic usernames on this forum (so as not to be typecast in their opinions and post). There could be more.
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