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i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 11, 2015 - 08:54pm PT
I used to hide that I hailed from from Florida because, well, George and the hanging chad.
Now there's nowhere to hide. :-(
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 11, 2015 - 08:54pm PT

great group of people!







crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 11, 2015 - 09:01pm PT
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 11, 2015 - 09:02pm PT
My fondest hope is that Donald allows his enormous ego to drive him to becoming an independent candidate. That would assure that any of the remaining "gang of sixteen" would not ascend to the presidency. What a gong show of out of touch incompetents!
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Aug 11, 2015 - 09:04pm PT
The serial spin-offs could get ugly.

Just sayin'.
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Aug 11, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
Boss


nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Aug 11, 2015 - 09:23pm PT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 11, 2015 - 09:56pm PT
I hope y'all saw Bill Maher last Friday. He's majorly jonesing for some more Donald.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 11, 2015 - 10:02pm PT
I'm ready for the Donald.

I already have the apartment building in the Recoleta neighborhood of Buenos Aires picked out if he wins, to wait out his term.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 11, 2015 - 10:02pm PT
Yeah....Stewart's gotta be bummed to lose such a golden opportunity.
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Aug 11, 2015 - 10:21pm PT
He does hold the Trump card, we just don't know how it will be played...


or do we?
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Aug 11, 2015 - 10:30pm PT
I ain't voting for him but, a six pack of mickey's big mouth says he's our next figure head.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Aug 11, 2015 - 11:16pm PT
The funniest / craziest person to run for Prez since Michele Bachman.


8 yrs after electing the first black president, America is now considering electing the first orange one.

He polls well in the oompa loompa community.


The most obvious case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder there ever was.

If he wasn't so offensive it wouldn't be so easy to laugh at him.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 12, 2015 - 12:10am PT

Topic Author's Original Post
I love American elections !

Yeah, sometimes they just leave you Canadians wide eyed in wonder.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 12, 2015 - 02:41am PT
the fet...Lmao..!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 12, 2015 - 02:47am PT
Talk about the guy with the best shot at getting us into a war with Russia, Iran or China.....

Hell, maybe all three at once!

Happy days are here again.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Aug 12, 2015 - 04:23am PT
Talk about an ugly American?
I seriously have a problem with bullies.
But then, a bully for a bully, baby...nah!
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Aug 12, 2015 - 07:00am PT
dirtbag

climber
Aug 12, 2015 - 07:10am PT



















































































































































k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 12, 2015 - 07:41am PT
"I love Mexicans. Because they're going to pay for the fence."
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 12, 2015 - 07:49am PT
There are only 4 people who have any chance of being the next president. Trump is not one of them..

2 dems and 2 reps..and Bernie is not one of them either. One of the dems isn't even running yet.

Hope trump sticks around but the election is over a year away..his pt barnum show will be forgotten by then.

Well sorta..as if Donald will ever let America forget about him...ha!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 12, 2015 - 08:04am PT
Talk about the guy with the best shot at getting us into a war with Russia, Iran or China.....

cyber war has been happening for awhile..
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 12, 2015 - 08:09am PT
Yeah, we know.

I'm sure the Hair will fix that right up along with everything else in MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!



frank wyman

Mountain climber
montana
Aug 12, 2015 - 08:19am PT
There is a special tonight on TV that will be discussing why Trump is unfairly getting so much more air time than everyone else. The special lasts "3 HOURS"...
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Aug 12, 2015 - 08:20am PT
Trump is filler and necessary due to the short attention span of the entertainment demanding masses, of which I am proud to stand with in solidarity as long as I feel I am being treated fairly.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 12, 2015 - 08:29am PT
Mahar had a prediction for the GOP ticket: Rubio/Fiorina

Folks like Trump because, yeah, he's cunning and can use force to fix all this stuff that's messed up. Tear up the Iran deal because our current admin doesn't know how to negotiate, and we need something that our allies will support.

Those that can't see past their noses eat this stuff like salted popcorn.
Dick_Lugar_II

Trad climber
Center of My Universe...
Aug 12, 2015 - 08:43am PT
Trump is America's "ID"...
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
Aug 12, 2015 - 08:54am PT
The potential First Lady part gets me. A foreign model?????
At least there would be kids in the White House again. I think he has a ten year old named "Barron"
Will the White House be gold leafed?


Susan
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 12, 2015 - 08:57am PT
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Aug 12, 2015 - 09:09am PT
It has occurred to me that Trump is gathering a loyal faction of followers who he will advise should support Bush when he wins the nomination. Because only an idiot would believe Trump is presidential material, and there are an awful lot of idiots in this country, they will do as he says.

Bush can withstand the media silence that most other candidates are receiving, and he is quietly going about with his development of support. He probably sees Trump as doing him a favor and making things quite easy for him.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 12, 2015 - 09:13am PT
Trump is already in a pissing match with JEB
They hate each other
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 12, 2015 - 10:44am PT
Trump is perfect for the GOP. In their desperation, the Donald is the catalist that is finally exposing a huge part of their base for what they really are:

Greedy
Selfish
Bigoted
Egotistical
Vain
Angry

Go Donald Go!

Hard times flush the chumps...
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 12, 2015 - 10:53am PT
Man oh man, I can hardly wait; it will be heaven:

TRUMP/PALIN 2016!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dirtbag

climber
Aug 12, 2015 - 10:55am PT
Maybe Sarah and Carly will make out?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 12, 2015 - 11:12am PT
China has gotten rich off us,” Donald J. Trump told supporters. “China has rebuilt itself with the money it’s sucked out of the United States and the jobs that it’s sucked out of the United States.”

this is good for BD climbing gear
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 12, 2015 - 12:40pm PT
Chump is right for Galactic President in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. My nightmare scenario would be him vs. Bernie - a demagogue on the right (allegedly) vs. a demagogue on the left. Both of them say our problems are causde by "those others," when, in fact, we have caused our own problems.

John
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Aug 12, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
Jim, I see that you have tossed a pebble in the pond. If the pond was still I could watch the ripples slowly fade and wonder. But alas, there are too many pebbles being tossed and no Fourier analysis could ever make any sense of the chaos. You stand outside the pond and I stand inside. I wish I could be be looking in at this quagmire of futility we call the American electoral process.

Cheers.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 12, 2015 - 12:56pm PT
Where exactly did Bernie say it was "those others" that caused our problems?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 12, 2015 - 03:02pm PT
Where exactly did Bernie say it was "those others" that caused our problems?

Virtually his entire campaign, Wilbeer. It's the fault of corporations, the rich, the military, etc. etc.

John
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 12, 2015 - 03:13pm PT
Uhmm yeah overspending on things that have little direct benefit on the people... under taxing and underpayrolling...

Could be an issue I guess.

I'm all for a labor market that has it's sh#t together at even 1/2 the efficiancy of the corporate mechanisms.

Sadly that doesn't exist in america let alone the other labor markets. Markets opened for the very purpose of shafting the average american.

So most of the people get shafted.

And people wonder why one household income is very rarely enough to be middle class. That ended decades ago... wonder why?

Only good thing is that eventually it will even out. Eventually the corporations will have no where to run for undereducated, unorganized exploitable labor.

Things will get a lot better then. Say 50 to 100 years. Maybe longer..depends how long it takes Africa to get it's sh#t toghether..Asia won't be so long.

Perot was right...and..

Trickle down means...trickle...as in very little ...as in ...broke

Gary

Social climber
From A Buick 6
Aug 12, 2015 - 03:24pm PT
Virtually his entire campaign, Wilbeer. It's the fault of corporations, the rich, the military, etc. etc.

John is right in that it is our fault. We've elected the politicians who have done no more than rubberstamp the proposals of the corporations, the Pentagon, etc., etc.
Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Aug 12, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
He has my vote
Seal our southern border using the military
Pro union
Bring American jobs home
Says what he thinks
Hard to buy off a billioneer
That's the stuff that works for me, but then again I'm just a middle class construction worker.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 12, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
Gary

No we have not elected them.. they were chosen by the donors who are the only voters who determine who gets on the general election ballot. Then we get to vote on the stacked deck. Which means very little.

R.I.P. The great experiment.

Even Perot could not unstack the deck. He got rid of Bush as intended but the backup candidate still passed the required gutting of America.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 12, 2015 - 04:34pm PT
John,

I think we need to grab our towels and stow away on the next frieghter passing by the earth before the Bernie and Donald show ramps up.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 12, 2015 - 04:52pm PT
He's an egocentric clown whose current popularity with right wing repugnants is more a reflection of them than anything else.
We can only hope that his narcissism drives him to run as an independent.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 12, 2015 - 04:57pm PT


Hard to buy off a billioneer

Think how they became "billioneers"
Gary

Social climber
From A Buick 6
Aug 12, 2015 - 05:58pm PT
No we have not elected them.. they were chosen by the donors who are the only voters who determine who gets on the general election ballot. Then we get to vote on the stacked deck. Which means very little.

There's more choice than Tweedledee and Tweedledum. No, they won't get elected, but at least the point gets made. At some point, someone like Eugene Debs gets enough votes that they sit up and listen. It was Debs that got us the New Deal.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 12, 2015 - 06:48pm PT
I think we need to grab our towels and stow away on the next freighter passing by the earth before the Bernie and Donald show ramps up.

Where can we get a sub-etha Sensomatic?

John
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 12, 2015 - 06:56pm PT
Shades O'Barry Goldwater, but would you want The Trumpster sitting around in Washington with his finger on the trigger?

Extremism in the defense of billionaires is no vice and moderation is a sham.

zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 12, 2015 - 06:58pm PT
Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed. Their mistaken course stems from false notions of equality, ladies and gentlemen. Equality, rightly understood, as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences. Wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism.

Mr. Goldwater speaking of Dick Cheney and the Bush family.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 12, 2015 - 06:59pm PT
He probably thinks that's his penis.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 12, 2015 - 07:04pm PT
Oh No!
George Will is not happy

Donald Trump is a counterfeit Republican


By George F. Will Opinion writer August 12 at 8:14 PM 

He is an affront to anyone devoted to the project William F. Buckley began six decades ago with the founding in 1955 of the National Review — making conservatism intellectually respectable and politically palatable. Buckley’s legacy is being betrayed by invertebrate conservatives now saying that although Trump “goes too far,” he has “tapped into something,” and therefore. . . .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-counterfeit-republican/2015/08/12/c28c2968-4052-11e5-bfe3-ff1d8549bfd2_story.html
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 12, 2015 - 07:24pm PT
Virtually his entire campaign, Wilbeer. It's the fault of corporations, the rich, the military, etc. etc.



And you think he is wrong.


How?


Do you think it is all because of the middle class and the poor?[majority]


Come on now ,call it what fox calls it,you know, "class warfare".



Forest through the trees.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 12, 2015 - 07:34pm PT
I think we need to grab our towels and stow away on the next frieghter passing by the earth before the Bernie and Donald show ramps up.


GREAT idea. What was the title of the screenplay about this?


"TO SERVE MAN"

yep, that's what the wackos are seeking.......
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 12, 2015 - 07:35pm PT
Virtually his entire campaign, Wilbeer. It's the fault of corporations, the rich, the military, etc. etc.



And you think he is wrong.

So Wilbeer, you admit that when you challenged the premise that he blamed others, you were wrong.

That's good. Helps expand your thinking.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 12, 2015 - 07:40pm PT
Agreed.


Just wondering who "those others"were.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Aug 12, 2015 - 08:27pm PT

George is deluded if he thinks this is the strongest 16 republicans since Lincoln.

If they were, nobody would be paying any attention to the Donald.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 12, 2015 - 09:34pm PT
Ready for Donald?

Apparently Supertopo is ready for Donald...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 12, 2015 - 11:19pm PT
Agreed.


Just wondering who "those others"were.

So now you are saying that you are supporting a guy who you've never heard speak, nor read anything that he's written, and don't know what he stands for????
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Aug 13, 2015 - 04:15am PT
I have read plenty of what Bernie has said.As for speaking ,no primary hopefull comes to upstate NY to talk.

He does not blame anyone for our problems ,but,he does believe there is a inequality problem .



Easier for you to read into .

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 13, 2015 - 05:40am PT
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Aug 13, 2015 - 06:04am PT
Trump has called for the execution of Edward Snowden.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/01/donald-trump-edward-snowden-execution_n_3530162.html

I think Trump may be a classical fascist.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 13, 2015 - 07:08am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Aug 13, 2015 - 07:35am PT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 13, 2015 - 11:26am PT
He does not blame anyone for our problems ,but,he does believe there is a inequality problem .



Easier for you to read into .

So NOW, you state that Bernie doesn't blame anyone, although you gave in on that point earlier.

So which is it? He blames others, or he does not?

You've got a real contradiction thing going on here!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 13, 2015 - 02:08pm PT
There you go again Norton, trying to reason with a repugnant.....trust me, can't be done.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 13, 2015 - 02:34pm PT
Tgt has lied so many times about the southern strategy, racism, and the modern Republican Party and his retort is always that the southern dems 50 years ago were Jim Crow cheerleaders (well, duh), and republicans nowadays sh#t sparkly little diamonds.

Anyway, he's a liar.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Aug 13, 2015 - 03:27pm PT
Algore ... call your fitness trainer.
Norton

Social climber
Aug 13, 2015 - 03:34pm PT

out of the park, elcap

very well done
Norton

Social climber
Aug 13, 2015 - 03:35pm PT

deserves to be reprinted on this page

I'm voting for Hillary.

Bernie can't win, and couldn't get much done if he did. O'Malley isn't ready for the job, Webb can't win, and doesn't tick my positions boxes.

Biden is too old, or he would be my first choice. Warren would get my vote but she won't run, and if she ran and won would face similar obstacles as Bernie in getting a policy agenda implemented.

Meanwhile the entire GOP is a clown-car collection of useful idiots in servitude to the 1%, the war-mongering neocon Israel-firsters, X-tian fundies, and their mouth-breather moron base.

Jeb! was supposed to be the "smart" Bush..and is a bigger idiot than his numtpy failure of a brother, and with less charm. Terry Shaivo, and "I'd invade Iraq if I had it to do over again". Yeah? Well eff you Jebby, go back to Kennebunkeport and hide you shitweasel.

Rubio...lolz. Guy can't even manage his own checking account, much less a country. Personal finances are a disaster. Never held any real job that wasn't political patronage handout or politician, nor accomplished anything as a politician.

Walker...known criminal and tool of the Kochs. Tried to retract his state's open records law, blew up the budget, and says no abortion exception even in cases of rape, incest, or high risk of death to the mother. Get lost, you smarmy f*#k.

Donald...guy got high on his own supply of ego. Five bankruptcies, after inheriting a fortune from his pops, and people hold this guy up as some kind of successful businessman? Yeah, let's give this blowhard idiot the nuke codes. Take that dead possum on your head, and go fly away in your private jet.

Carly...HP fail. Buh bye.

Hucksterbee...truly insane end-times evangelical type, who runs mostly to get his grift on. Supported the child molester family with 27 kids, and let some criminal killer walk who then killed some more. Stellar judgement you fat f*#k, just take your bass and go play in a backwoods congregation sunday service somewhere, we're all stocked up on god botherers around here.

Chris Crisco Christie...The Outlaw Jersey Whale. Biggest as#@&%e of the lot, and biggest ass of the lot too. That toughguy bullshit might pass as vaugel charming in Joisey, the rest us say "go f*#k yourself, fatty". Aside from the criminal bs with using state helo to attend his kids baseball game, the bridgegate scandal will sink this weeble wobble.

Randy "Son of crazy Uncle Liberty" Paul. Never trust a man with two first names, or a rug that bad.

Ted Cruz..."do I like green eggs and ham?" I'd like them if you choke on them, you McCarthy look-a-like smarmy slimeball. Govt shutdown temper tantrum blowhard. Hated by both sides, including his own GOP colleagues in the Senate because he's a back stabbing as#@&%e. The kind of guy if you met on the street you'd either mistake for a huckster preacher, used car salesman, or grifter.

Kaisch...the only one of the entire GOP lot I'd even remotely consider sane, competent and able.

Payush "Bobby" Jindal...any exorcisms lately Kenneth the Page? I know they love a drink in New Orleans, presumably the entire state was drunk when this guy was elected.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 13, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
Yeah, elcap, spot on.

I take it that it's your creation and not a cut n paste, so grade A.
Well done!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 13, 2015 - 03:59pm PT
Kudos elcap!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 13, 2015 - 04:08pm PT
elcap, that was simply awesome.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 13, 2015 - 05:57pm PT
Funny thing, if I couldn't vote for Hillary...


I'd vote Trump.



Regarding ISIS and the oil fields...

"We have to go in by force," Trump said. "We have to take the oil."
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 13, 2015 - 08:09pm PT
Forbes is putting Trump's worth at $4 billion and around 405 on it's list.

Are any of these other folks more qualified, using Trump's foremost (in his own words) qualifier?

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 13, 2015 - 08:15pm PT
One of our biggest problems is political correctness
Trump

So if you elect him, he will solve our nation's political correctness problem

And we can all say all the racist and bigoted things we can think of and have been so repressed from saying up to now

Go Trump, I'm going blow if I can't say all that hateful bigoted stuff soon!!
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 13, 2015 - 09:34pm PT
Anyone who thinks Trump is planning to take the big paycut as president is smoking something.

The dude ain't running for president.. he's playing you all... it's kinda fun to watch though.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 13, 2015 - 10:23pm PT
Donald...guy got high on his own supply of ego. Five bankruptcies, after inheriting a fortune from his pops, and people hold this guy up as some kind of successful businessman? Yeah, let's give this blowhard idiot the nuke codes. Take that dead possum on your head, and go fly away in your private jet.

Excellent, El Cap. And I agree, climbski2. Publicity stunt all the way but, as they say, "there'll be hell toupee."

John
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 13, 2015 - 10:43pm PT
....and there's no such thing as bad publicity.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 14, 2015 - 07:15am PT

First lady 2016
10b4me

Social climber
Aug 14, 2015 - 07:24am PT
Well said, Elcap. Oh, I agree with you on Kasich.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 14, 2015 - 08:08am PT
Top GOP spokesman, Ted Nugent likes Megyn Kelly, he likes to reload his magazines while he watches her naked


Nugent said, "I'm a big fan of Donald Trump because I believe in bold, aggressive, unapologetic truth. Period. And I'm not a fan of Megyn Kelly, although I often turn on Fox just to look at her. Sometimes when I'm loading my magazines, I like to just look at her. And I usually sit naked on the couch dropping hot brass on my stuff."


Nugent then criticized Kelly for asking Trump about his history of sexist comments, stating, "I'm afraid the gorgeous, stunning, otherwise professional and tuned-in Megyn Kelly absolutely fell of the cliff of political correctness when she proposed that obnoxious, meaningless, nonsensical, biased question for Donald Trump."

Nugent continued: "Megyn Kelly absolutely broke all of our hearts as only a Megyn Kelly could when she went into the status quo world. She isn't status quo, but she started acting, and sounding, and looking like one, and I don't believe she is. I think she is playing some games, either that or she's getting bad advice, either that or she's just getting stupid. Either way, Donald Trump is the good guy, currently Megyn Kelly ain't."


Like Trump, Nugent has a history of misogynist commentary. He has called Hillary Clinton a "worthless bitch" and a "toxic c#&%," and labeled other women "worthless whore," "fat pig," and "dirty whore."


http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/08/12/nras-ted-nugent-defends-trumps-lewd-comments-ab/204904

Ted would make a great Sec. of Defense for the Trump Admin.
no more of that pesky Political correctness that is such a burden on society.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 14, 2015 - 08:28am PT
No one was banned because of me, that's for sure

I guess you don't know when the names fit and when they don't

Right Wing Women that preach Right Wing High and Mighty Morals have a very special name that fits well with their preachiness.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 14, 2015 - 08:38am PT
"Preachiness" doesn't swing both ways?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 14, 2015 - 08:57am PT
From Trump on Down, the Republicans Can’t Be Serious

Paul Krugman
AUG. 7, 2015


This was, according to many commentators, going to be the election cycle Republicans got to show off their “deep bench.” The race for the nomination would include experienced governors like Jeb Bush and Scott Walker, fresh thinkers like Rand Paul, and attractive new players like Marco Rubio. Instead, however, Donald Trump leads the field by a wide margin. What happened?

The answer, according to many of those who didn’t see it coming, is gullibility: People can’t tell the difference between someone who sounds as if he knows what he’s talking about and someone who is actually serious about the issues. And for sure there’s a lot of gullibility out there. But if you ask me, the pundits have been at least as gullible as the public, and still are.

For while it’s true that Mr. Trump is, fundamentally, an absurd figure, so are his rivals. If you pay attention to what any one of them is actually saying, as opposed to how he says it, you discover incoherence and extremism every bit as bad as anything Mr. Trump has to offer. And that’s not an accident: Talking nonsense is what you have to do to get anywhere in today’s Republican Party.

For example, Mr. Trump’s economic views, a sort of mishmash of standard conservative talking points and protectionism, are definitely confused. But is that any worse than Jeb Bush’s deep voodoo, his claim that he could double the underlying growth rate of the American economy? And Mr. Bush’s credibility isn’t helped by his evidence for that claim: the relatively rapid growth Florida experienced during the immense housing bubble that coincided with his time as governor.

Mr. Trump, famously, is a “birther” — someone who has questioned whether President Obama was born in the United States. But is that any worse than Scott Walker’s declaration that he isn’t sure whether the president is a Christian?

Mr. Trump’s declared intention to deport all illegal immigrants is definitely extreme, and would require deep violations of civil liberties. But are there any defenders of civil liberties in the modern G.O.P.? Notice how eagerly Rand Paul, self-described libertarian, has joined in the witch hunt against Planned Parenthood.

And while Mr. Trump is definitely appealing to know-nothingism, Marco Rubio, climate change denier, has made “I’m not a scientist” his signature line. (Memo to Mr. Rubio: Presidents don’t have to be experts on everything, but they do need to listen to experts, and decide which ones to believe.)

The point is that while media puff pieces have portrayed Mr. Trump’s rivals as serious men — Jeb the moderate, Rand the original thinker, Marco the face of a new generation — their supposed seriousness is all surface. Judge them by positions as opposed to image, and what you have is a lineup of cranks. And as I said, this is no accident.

It has long been obvious that the conventions of political reporting and political commentary make it almost impossible to say the obvious — namely, that one of our two major parties has gone off the deep end. Or as the political analysts Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein put it in their book “It’s Even Worse Than It Looks,” the G.O.P. has become an “insurgent outlier … unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence, and science.” It’s a party that has no room for rational positions on many major issues.

Or to put it another way, modern Republican politicians can’t be serious — not if they want to win primaries and have any future within the party. Crank economics, crank science, crank foreign policy are all necessary parts of a candidate’s resume.

Until now, however, leading Republicans have generally tried to preserve a facade of respectability, helping the news media to maintain the pretense that it was dealing with a normal political party. What distinguishes Mr. Trump is not so much his positions as it is his lack of interest in maintaining appearances. And it turns out that the party’s base, which demands extremist positions, also prefers those positions delivered straight. Why is anyone surprised?

Remember how Mr. Trump was supposed to implode after his attack on John McCain? Mr. McCain epitomizes the strategy of sounding moderate while taking extreme positions, and is much loved by the press corps, which puts him on TV all the time. But Republican voters, it turns out, couldn’t care less about him.

Can Mr. Trump actually win the nomination? I have no idea. But even if he is eventually pushed aside, pay no attention to all the analyses you will read declaring a return to normal politics. That’s not going to happen; normal politics left the G.O.P. a long time ago. At most, we’ll see a return to normal hypocrisy, the kind that cloaks radical policies and contempt for evidence in conventional-sounding rhetoric. And that won’t be an improvement.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Aug 14, 2015 - 10:48am PT
Reilly wrote:
"Preachiness" doesn't swing both ways?

Good point.
Right wing moralizing would NOT be the impediment to doing a remake of "Blazing Saddles" in today's world.
Guck

Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:10pm PT
For the last few elections, I have been a faithful supporter of Daffy Duck. It is hard to see Donald as a contender.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 14, 2015 - 12:17pm PT
Guck, given the candidates with the highest current poll numbers, I may join in your support of Daffy.

John
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 14, 2015 - 04:15pm PT
Trump speaks coarsely, in places very coarsely.
But there's a good deal of truth to a lot of what he says
that others treat as a third rail and won't touch.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 14, 2015 - 04:18pm PT
Hopefully....the Donald will go down in history as having been the third rail for the Republican Party.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 14, 2015 - 07:41pm PT

Yes....bitches,,,, yargle bargle
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 14, 2015 - 11:20pm PT
Yargle Bargle!
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Aug 15, 2015 - 06:30am PT
The Dinold

Commencement speech the Dinold stood with pointing finger on his hand,
O'er all this faculty, the parents, students, and the lands did he command,
A snicker broke and then a boo,
His face erupted from orange to red, purple now and then to blue,

With scepter, throne, and crown,
The King did frown,
Who were these youths with cap and gown?
What did they know?
How could a monarch let go down these children's games?
"You're Fired!" he cried,
His rule austere, for that he was renowned.

-bushman
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Aug 15, 2015 - 06:44am PT
Don's Reality: Half the world's population are "bitches."

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/donald-trump-2016-reality-tv-sexist-121381.html#.Vc9Al7JVhHw

This word, entirely disrespectful, may seem a relatively innocent expression thanks to modern TV's laxity. It is unacceptable in the man for whom I vote as the leader of a country like mine.

I'm not proud of a lot of what my country has done in many respects. Letting our language fall into the gutter is one. When I think of how many whuppings kids my age received back when a civil tongue was de rigeur among Middle Class families like mine and where that has gotten us, I cringe.

I hope his head bursts into flames while he's on the Trump Stump.

Ho ho ho, Don, you tiny bubble-brain!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 15, 2015 - 11:39am PT
Interesting dynamic here:

Erick Erickson, the head of the RedState Gathering and a Fox News contributor, barred the GOP front-runner from appearing at the event's closing tailgate party after Trump said Kelly had blood coming out of her eyes and "her… wherever" while moderating Thursday's Republican primary debate.

But Erickson has called First Lady Michelle Obama a "Marxist harpy," once labeled retired Supreme Court Justice David Souter a "goat f---ing child molester," and slammed Texas state Sen. Wendy Davis as an "Abortion Barbie."
Norton

Social climber
Aug 15, 2015 - 11:50am PT
But Erickson has called First Lady Michelle Obama a "Marxist harpy," once labeled retired Supreme Court Justice David Souter a "goat f---ing child molester," and slammed Texas state Sen. Wendy Davis as an "Abortion Barbie."

well, when your brand has nothing to proudly stand FOR and exerts all its energy into
getting the right "message" across to fire up its older white male base...

then what you have to do is relate to your base voter, keep throwing them red meat

and that red meat is always about hatred for democrats, for "liberals", hatred for anyone
who is not pure, not as loyally extreme as their media outlets demand they be

but really what else CAN they sell, when they are the party that is responsible for trillions of dollars lost in the stock market and quietly slunk out of Washington in 08 handing a Recession to the black muslim from Kenya to clean up

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 16, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]


dirtbag

climber
Aug 16, 2015 - 05:40pm PT
Trump can suck the sweat from the folds of my hairy, pasty ass flab.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 16, 2015 - 07:52pm PT
Mexico says it will NOT Pay for Trump's Great Wall
What will he do?? lie more about the wall, or back down and admit that they won't pay a cent for his ambitious lunacy.

It's easy to say things that you want in a make believe world, but making them happen it the real world is for adults, not by an over priced salesman

In his book "The Art of the Deal" he tells us that he lies and exaggerates everything to screw his opponents, which in this case is US.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 16, 2015 - 07:58pm PT
Ever hear of tariffs?

Maybe your Arugula and Cilantro will end up costing a few cents more.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 16, 2015 - 08:04pm PT
He is a brilliant and very deliberate studied expert manipulator.

He has skillz..no denying that.. The question is as always.. to what purpose? About the only thing you can trust Trump about is if you know his purpose.

I have no Idea..but I'm pretty sure it ain't about being president.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 16, 2015 - 08:07pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What he said. Although I think he really does want the office, there's a backup plan.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 16, 2015 - 08:14pm PT
Hmm.. well I suppose being president could be considered one of the ultimate ego trips..he does like having things named after him...

I suppose his ultimate dream could be renaming the USA ..Trumpland.

He's probably jealous of that guy Washington or something.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 20, 2015 - 08:13am PT
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 20, 2015 - 08:32am PT
So I'm curious,

would any lib dem here vote Jeb over Trump?


Didn't you like what Trump said on the issue of our failing infrastructure and how with his being a builder he could get things done?

I'm as liberal as they come - that means at base standing up for lib principles - and so far I've seen Trump a breath of fresh air.

Sure he speaks coarsely, but so what, maybe that is irrelevant to getting things done.

Were he elected Pres and things to go bad, at least the future of politics would learn from the experience / experiment and have a chance to righten itself.

Some of you Trump Dissers should challenge yourselves on whether you might be just a bit close-minded on this one.

The Trump Wall has a nice sound to it.
Norton

Social climber
Aug 20, 2015 - 08:33am PT
I will be voting for Donald during the Republican Primary

he is the candidate I would most like to see face the Democratic nominee
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Aug 20, 2015 - 09:13am PT
Parody.[Click to View YouTube Video]
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 20, 2015 - 09:43am PT
would any lib dem here vote Jeb over Trump?

No I didn't think so.

Yes, indeed, I'd like to see what American politics would look like in 2016 under new lights.

So I'd welcome a Clinton Trump match up / smack down.

Bring it on.
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Aug 20, 2015 - 02:54pm PT
I wouldn't waste my vote.

Voting for the lesser of two evils rather than voting for the candidate you like best is a waste of your vote.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 20, 2015 - 02:57pm PT
Cosmic....Trump, Carson.....I despair!
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 20, 2015 - 03:01pm PT
Trump is a complete and total POS

The world is laughing as Rome burns.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 20, 2015 - 03:13pm PT
HFCS, he changes his views more than his underwear. His knowledge of issues is microscopically thin. He's making it up as he goes, stirring up nationalist fervor. Yes, he brings candor to what is usually a bore-fest, the primaries, but putting this guy in the White House, the Commander in Chief, leader of the free world? "Trust me, I'm a winner, I can't give you the details, but you're gonna love it". C'mon.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 20, 2015 - 03:18pm PT
Yep, we've become the laughing stock of the first world for many reasons.....Donald is icing on the cake.
Norton

Social climber
Aug 20, 2015 - 03:22pm PT
Trump is a complete and total POS

true, but if you voted for other Democrats but then not the black one and now not a woman then Trump really is your boy
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Aug 20, 2015 - 06:23pm PT
"North Korea Says Ferguson Response Made U.S. 'The Laughing Stock Of The World'"--ThinkProgress

"No, YOU'RE fired!"
T. Rump, the butt of the joke from toupee to ego.

DRT hasn't the cachet of FDR, JFK, or even BHO II.

Silliness abounds. Will someone get feckin' REAL?

The presidential elections of recent history have been epic examples of the failure of democracy.

Why not change the Constitution and elect Donald the king and absolute ruler?

It would bring the next revolution we all predicted as idealistic hippies and yippies.

Would like to remind you, too, that the burning of Rome changed nothing for the masses and only got the Christians in hot water. It was STAGED by the head STOOGE himself.

I never get involved in political threads, but this is worrisome enough to me that I had to say something.

I'm saying it's gonna be Jeb, final answer. It's hard to keep a good dynastic akswipe down.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 21, 2015 - 09:32am PT
Donald Trump Is a Dumb, Lying Piece of Sh#t, So He'll Probably Be President
By the Rude Pundit
8/20/2015

Someone had better find out which of his mistresses Donald Trump forced to get an abortion, and they'd better find that out soon, because right now, Trump is no longer the GOP's Frankenstein monster. He's its Godzilla. Let Mexico cower under his green balls as the border burns.

Because, see, it doesn't matter if Donald Trump is a f*#king idiot. In fact, in his CNN interview with Chris "The Less Evolved" Cuomo yesterday, Trump may as well have answered a question on how he gets his foreign policy information with "I sit on the toilet and, when I'm done having the greatest sh#t ever, really, it was something, you wish you could sh#t that way, I watch my gold-plated TV and learn everything I need to know."

Donald Trump is George W. Bush with no f*#ks to give. And people are lappin' up his brain pissings like it's fine champagne because we've degraded leadership to relatability. People relate to Donald Trump because he talks dumb like they do, and we think talking dumb is talking straight. It's not. It's just dumb. The problem is that dumb people are too f*#king dumb to know that. Can't talk in real sentences? That's relatable. Doesn't need to talk to experts who aren't on TV? F*#k, yeah, that's relatable. Much better than that prissy Negro, Barack Obama. Christ, Trump is the candidate from Breitbart.

Trump is also a f*#kin' liar. Here's what he told Cuomo about an award he received: "I was given the biggest award by the marines the other day. It's just about one of the biggest civilian awards by the marines the other day. I was with all of the marines. I was with the head of the Joint, the new head of the Joint Chief of Staffs. He's a very impressive guy at the Waldorf, Missouri the other nigh. I was given, you know, one of their most distinguished awards which is a great honor for me."

Turns out that Trump was given a bullshit award because he donates a sh#t-ton of money to a charity called "the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation." It gives college scholarships to the children of Marines and federal law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty. It's not even associated with the Marine Corps. It's a civilian organization. Of course it was a civilian award. Trump's either inflating the honor to give him some military street cred or he didn't even know what it was.

F*#k it, though. Who doesn't mix up the awards they've gotten for the $100,000 checks they write? Just like regular people.

 See more at: http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/#sthash.qtXBXtGj.dpuf
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 21, 2015 - 09:38am PT
A Clinton Trump contest would definitely stir this pot out of its doldrums, I rather hope it materializes.


Crankster, the part about Trump as Commander in Chief and in charge of the Football is a bit scary though.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Aug 21, 2015 - 09:44am PT
I hope Trump wins because Saturday night live would be awesome for at least 4 years.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 21, 2015 - 09:55am PT
As for the fence..

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/08/16/the-border-wall-donald-trump-wants-mostly-exists/
Norton

Social climber
Aug 21, 2015 - 10:05am PT

both border arrests and deportations are at record high numbers right now

our "borders" have never in US History been as secure as they are now

President Obama has spent billions of dollars on the physical wall, tech monitoring,
and training and deploying many more agents along with Guard units and equipment

look it up
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 21, 2015 - 10:09am PT
http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/2-mexican-nationals-charged-killing-coast-guardsman-article-1.1212699

Norton ur wrong about the illegals coming over to US..

Total effing nightmare
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 21, 2015 - 10:11am PT
He's not just wrong, he's lying.

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/08/20/az-sheriff-paul-babeu-drug-cartels-with-ak-47s-control-american-soil-30-miles-from-phoenix/
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 21, 2015 - 10:14am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

More evidence for norton to realize border patrol
Every time a swell hits the pang boats go under radar hence the refugees come searching for a better life.. I would too.. my family went thru Ellis island..
Norton

Social climber
Aug 21, 2015 - 10:49am PT
The Obama administration deported a record 438,421 unauthorized immigrants in fiscal year 2013, continuing a streak of stepped up enforcement that has resulted in more than 2 million deportations since Obama took office, newly released Department of Homeland Security data show.


Some immigrant advocates have dubbed Obama the “deporter in chief” over the fact that his administration has deported about as many immigrants in five years as the George W. Bush administration deported in eight years.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/02/u-s-deportations-of-immigrants-reach-record-high-in-2013/
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 21, 2015 - 11:03am PT
Norton, you are correct. Bush & congress did little about the issue, this president has been much better despite dealing with a do-nothing congress that only kicks the can down the road. Trump is exploiting the issue and the Repub base eats it up, despite the facts you mention. There is never going to be a 2,000-mile Great Wall of China-style wall on the border.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 21, 2015 - 11:05am PT
Hmmmm....who is likely to be the better, objective source of facts.....

Breitbart....or Pew Research?


Gosh, the choice is sooooo hard.

Unless you are a brainless RepubDroid- then it's quite easy.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 21, 2015 - 11:26am PT
New World, see the statement from Republican candidate, Marco Rubio. It is not just Democrats supporting a path to citizenship (or amnesty as your side calls it). Rubio knows there is no path to the White House without getting a better percentage of the Hispanic vote than his party has gotten in the past.

Marco Rubio dismissed Donald Trump’s immigration plan today as not feasible, and said he disagreed with the billionaire about ending birthright citizenship.

“I’m open to doing things that prevent people who deliberately come to the U.S. for the purposes of taking advantage of the 14th Amendment, but I’m not in favor of repealing it,” Rubio told reporters at the Iowa State Fair Tuesday morning. “I haven’t read his plans, I’ve only read press accounts on some of them. But obviously there’s some ideas that have merit, but the majority of it is really not a workable plan that could ever pass Congress.”…

“We have 12 or 13 million human beings that have been here for a long time. And there is really no, there’s not really a realistic way of rounding up and deporting 12 or 13 million people and our nation wouldn’t want to do that anyway,” Rubio said.

My guess is that Rubio will be left standing after Trump implodes, as the nominee or the VP nominee.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 21, 2015 - 11:28am PT
Great Wall of China? More like the Berlin Wall if you really want to keep people out. And why limit it to the southern border?

The populist gripes about illegal entry and residence obscure more complicated facts. Almost every illegal entrant of which I am aware came here to work, not to mooch. Unfortunately, though, some have developed their own entitlement mentality. My wife, a nurse, encounters it in demands for extra services, the expectation and demand for translators (and not just into Spanish) at no charge to the patient, etc.

Sad to say, I even see it in communities of recent Armenian immigrants. My father's generation expected that they would need to learn to communicate in English. That's probably why he spoke perfect English and perfect Armenian. Then again, his generation - and that of his parents (my father was born in Syracuse, NY in 1901, my grandparents were born in Turkish Armenia in the 1860's) - knew they weren't going back. That knowledge doubtless accelerated their facility with the English language and their desire to assimilate while maintaining what they saw as their desirable distinctives.

In any case, until I see an anti-illegal-immigrant populist explain how he or she will control our borders, remove those here illegally, and pay for all of that, I see no reason to take their rants any more seriously than I do those of any other populist demagogue. My patience with those who blame our problems exclusively on the villains-du-jour diminishes daily.

John
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 21, 2015 - 03:04pm PT
"Women in Iowa love Mr. Trump because they love a real man. And Mr. Trump is showing the things that women love. We love strength. We love a Mr. Clean. There are so many things that so many women are loving in Mr. Trump. We don't want a wimp running our country, and Mr. Trump is the furthest thing from a wimp. So it is very true, women are engulfing him and supporting him and are 100% behind him. People are excited about Mr. Trump becoming the next president." -Tana Goertz, CNN to Wolf
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 21, 2015 - 06:22pm PT
Well that was amazing!

The Trump "stream of consciousness" in Alabama just now.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 21, 2015 - 06:26pm PT
http://www.c-span.org/video/?327751-1/donald-trump-campaign-rally-mobile-alabama

suffered thru the whole thing.

No more "there" there than we haven't heard already.

The concept of making really good negotiators ambassadors instead of contributors and political dynasty children in need of a job was interesting though.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 21, 2015 - 06:48pm PT
This shift in emphasis by Trump to the art of negotiating / the art of deal making and its importance by tried and true experts instead of bumblies should get more attention.

.....


Poor Jeb! He's forever saddled now I think with this "low energy" tag. Not good.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 21, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
Trump

militaristic
egomaniacal
jingoistic
scapegoater
nice hair

Sounds familiar

zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 21, 2015 - 07:45pm PT
Perhaps a little premature, but VP?


High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 22, 2015 - 06:12pm PT
Here it is Trump lovers, your reasons for ditching him immediately without a second to lose...

1) "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive." -Trump tweet

http://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/265895292191248385

(2) When it comes to books in the world o "nothing beats the Bible." No, not even his second favorite book which he wrote himself, The Art of the Deal. -town pep rally, mobile alabama

That is some wild and crazy sh#t right there.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 22, 2015 - 06:19pm PT
If anyone needs to be told WHY not to vote for Trump, he/she should be declared incompetent and have a third part appointed to look over their affairs.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Aug 22, 2015 - 06:22pm PT
"Far too many Americans want a King,not a president" - Phil Donahue.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 22, 2015 - 07:06pm PT
Trump 2016!

(or Cruz, or Carson...)
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 22, 2015 - 07:29pm PT
Bluering....what Werner said.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 22, 2015 - 07:41pm PT
Jim, who do you think fits Werners mold?

I stick by my choices, I have thought it through extensively.
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Aug 22, 2015 - 09:26pm PT
For sure you are now - Blurring is back.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 22, 2015 - 10:30pm PT
We may just do the Facelift this year. We're due.

(did it already happen?)
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 23, 2015 - 02:42am PT
Bluering: Trump 2016! (or Cruz, or Carson...). I stick by my choices, I have thought it through extensively.
Now that I believe.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 23, 2015 - 04:24am PT


Is there a ready for Biden thread yet?

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 23, 2015 - 06:16am PT
Clinton, couldn't even get the nomination in 2008. The Senate tenure was a plus, the Secretary of State, a minus. Giant minus, whoever suggested it, should be thrown out of the party. Republicans win - for sure.

Indeed, the world, as we know it, is ending. Like 1938, politicians are turning a blind eye to genocide committed in the name of ideology. It only gets worse from here.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 23, 2015 - 07:11am PT
See, this is the inherent danger of increasing global population. It inclines ever more people - from ecoterrorists (aiming to protect biodiversity) to X (aiming for ???) to the Putins (aiming for fame fortune and glory) - into thinking a 75% reduction of world pop would still leave the planet with two billion people - more than enough - and arguably based on their particular aims MORE healthy at such a number.

Anyhow, keep the (evidence-based) faith Moose. Don't be sad. Enjoy Poland, LuckyMan!

I've already come to terms (hard-won) with the likely "sawtooth" trajectory of future human evolution. (H. sapiens 1.0 to H. sapiens 2.0 to H. sapiens 3.0...)

H. sapiens one way or another will exist LONG LONG LONG into the future. At what numbers and what kind of quality is the question.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 23, 2015 - 07:25am PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 23, 2015 - 09:21am PT
As of 2011. Some of Carson's caves were where?

Federal drug agents say Mexican cartel surveillance teams have set up observation posts on most of the mountain-tops in the Arizona
west desert area, from the Mexican border to Phoenix more than 100 miles north.
Most of that land sits inside the vast Tohono O'odham Indian reservation, which is the size of Connecticut,
but is sparsely populated by only about 20,000 residents.

Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Aug 23, 2015 - 10:22am PT
LOL


Jim Brennan, Canadian archetype:


Talks nonstop about american politics

Gets indignant when people ask what state you're from
jstan

climber
Aug 23, 2015 - 11:14am PT
You all remember how absurd the republicans appeared when they tried to pretend their message
during the primaries was the same as their message during the election campaign?

Well Trump has solved that problem. His message is a smorgasbord from which one can choose
what pleases one the most. We don't expect consistency from Trump. We look for electainment.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 23, 2015 - 11:25am PT
Clinton, couldn't even get the nomination in 2008

I forgot about that thanks..


msg from Donald


New Reuters Poll just came out and has me at 32%, highest number yet. The silent majority is back and we will MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 23, 2015 - 12:30pm PT
That's one of the biggest freakouts. He's even drawing Evangelicals.
He's on his third wife. I'm wondering if even say, it came out he had 6 mistresses, it wouldn't even be a speed bump.
Norton

Social climber
Aug 23, 2015 - 12:48pm PT

go Donald!

Donald is the best Republican candidate

he is strong, charismatic, able to fund his entire campaign with no outside help

a true man of the people, came up the hard way

I will be voting for Donald in my state's Republican Primary
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 23, 2015 - 12:54pm PT
We won't even get into how many abortions he's paid for over the years...
Norton

Social climber
Aug 23, 2015 - 01:06pm PT
Donald covered abortions in his book, The Art of the Deal
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 23, 2015 - 01:44pm PT
Norton,

you're busting me over here.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 23, 2015 - 02:31pm PT
“I don’t want any strings attached," Donald J. Trump said. “I turned down $5 million last week from a very important lobbyist because there are total strings attached to a thing like that. He’s going to come to me in a year or two years, and he’s going to want something for a country that he represents or a company that he represents. That’s the kind of money I won’t take.”

Donald Trump
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 23, 2015 - 02:46pm PT
Just imagine a Trump Biden debate.

Two hours of complete incoherence.











































Then at the end Biden tries to feel up Ivanca, and Trump punches him out.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 24, 2015 - 08:16am PT
Nice photo cosmic!!!

msg from the Donald


Markets are crashing - all caused by poor planning and allowing China and Asia to dictate the agenda. This could get very messy! Vote Trump.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 24, 2015 - 09:13am PT
The funny thing is, it doesn't matter what Trump sez. People are so disgusted with Washington, what he sez, is refreshing. Pretty unreal. I guess he could talk about his helicopter and get applause.

But President Obama nailed it several months ago, when he said, "People want that new car smell". His own party ignores that, at their peril.

The immediate effect, is to put a lot of pressure on aging Lib members of SCOTUS. I'm expecting to see the deck chairs on the TITANIC begin to slide at any minute.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 24, 2015 - 09:18am PT
"People are so disgusted with Washington, what he sez, is refreshing. Pretty unreal." -jd

Yep, "pretty unreal" and yet there's some reality to it.

.....

Hey Crankster,

were Biden to enter the race (with a possible Biden Warren ticket to follow) would you vote Biden over Clinton?
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 24, 2015 - 09:31am PT
They should keep Obama another 4 years.

agreed. The learning curve for the job, is prolly around 1 or 2 Trillion wasted.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Aug 24, 2015 - 10:30am PT
Learning curve? To read a teleprompter?

Granted the puppet before the current one couldn't even do that.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 24, 2015 - 11:34am PT


Captain...or Skully

climber
Boise, ID or the fricken Bakken, variously
Aug 24, 2015 - 11:35am PT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 24, 2015 - 11:40am PT
Isn't adolphin' a verb?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 24, 2015 - 02:01pm PT
Trump is 100% insane. Money addicts are worse than drug addicts, and Trump is about the worst.

Here is a story about Trump and what he calls "The World's Greatest Golf Course".

The Trumpelstiltskin Scottish Sand Swindle Scheme
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 24, 2015 - 05:13pm PT
zbrown, hilarious!!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 24, 2015 - 05:26pm PT
In the overall scheme of thing people ready for Donald....just aren't ready.
Dave Davis

Social climber
Seattle, WA
Aug 24, 2015 - 05:54pm PT
Check out the latest issue of Rolling Stone. Matt Taibi (my favorite political writer) has a most perceptive and sometimes hilarious article on the Donald and the whole Republican Clown Car.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 24, 2015 - 07:11pm PT
The gop's 'lowest-common-denominator' 2016 Primary Tour is selling out to record crowds. By the time the election rolls around they'll be sponsoring workshops and townhall meetings with topics like:

* How to form a militia (and not shoot yourself)

* How to detect and report an anchor baby with your iPhone (with the new $19.95 add-on to your NRA app)

* Trapping socialists: punji or deadfall?

* Building a border fence around your own damn yard

* Traditional Marriage and Ashley Madison: Where's the line?

* Gay family members: Was it something I ate? A virus? (It's not your fault)

* Help! I'm being relocated to San Francisco: A straight christian's survival guide

* I think I may be gay: Next steps in regaining your virile masculinity
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 25, 2015 - 08:41am PT
Anybody have relatives who are mentioned here?

A Brief Timeline of U.S. Policy on Immigration and Naturalization

1790 Congress adopts uniform rules so that any free white person could apply for citizenship after two years of residency.
1798 Alien and Sedition Acts required 14 years of residency before citizenship and provided for the deportation of "dangerous" aliens. Changed to five-year residency in 1800.
1819 First significant federal legislation on immigration. Includes reporting of immigration and rules for passengers from US ports bound for Europe
1846 Irish of all classes emigrate to the United States as a result of the potato famine.
1857 Dred Scott decision declared free Africans non-citizens.
1864 Contract Labor Law allowed recruiting of foreign labor.
1868 African Americans gained citizenship with 14th Amendment.
1875 Henderson v. Mayor of New York decision declared all state laws governing immigration unconstitutional; Congress must regulate "foreign commerce." Charity workers, burdened with helping immigrants, petition Congress to exercise authority and regulate immigration. Congress prohibits convicts and prostitutes from entering the country.
1880 The U.S. population is 50,155,783. More than 5.2 million immigrants enter the country between 1880 and 1890.
1882 Chinese Exclusion Act. First federal immigration law suspended Chinese immigration for 10 years and barred Chinese in U.S. from citizenship. Also barred convicts, lunatics, and others unable to care for themselves from entering. Head tax placed on immigrants.
1885 Contract Labor Law. Unlawful to import unskilled aliens from overseas as laborers. Regulations did not pertain to those crossing land borders.
1888 For the first time since 1798, provisions are adopted for expulsion of aliens.
1889 Jane Addams founds Hull-House on Chicago's Near West Side.
1890 Foreign-born in US were 15% of population (14% in Vermont); more arriving from southern and eastern Europe ("new immigrants") than northern and western ("old immigrants"). Jacob Riis publishes "How the Other Half Lives."
1891 Bureau of Immigration established under the Treasury Department. More classes of aliens restricted including those who were monetarily assisted by others for their passage. Steamship companies were ordered to return ineligible immigrants to countries of origin.
1892 Ellis Island opened to screen immigrants entering on east coast. (Angel Island screened those on west coast.) Ellis Island officials reported that women traveling alone must be met by a man, or they were immediately deported.
1902 Chinese Exclusion Act renewed indefinitely.
1903 Anarchists, epileptics, polygamists, and beggars ruled inadmissible.
1905 Construction of Angel Island Immigration Station began in the area known as China Cove. Surrounded by public controversy from its inception, the station was finally put into operation in 1910. Although it was billed as the "Ellis Island of the West", within the Immigration Service it was known as "The Guardian of the Western Gate" and was designed control the flow of Chinese into the country, who were officially not welcome with the passage of the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.
1906 Procedural safeguards enacted for naturalization. Knowledge of English becomes a basic requirement.
1907 Head tax is raised. People with physical or mental defects, tuberculosis, and children unaccompanied by a parent are added to the exclusion list. Japan agreed to limit emigrants to US in return for elimination of segregating Japanese students in San Francisco schools.
1910 Dillingham Report from Congress assumed inferiority of "new immigrants" from southern and eastern Europe and suggested a literacy test to restrict their entry. (William P. Dillingham was a Senator from Vermont.)
1917 Immigration Act provided for literacy tests for those over 16 and established an "Asiatic Barred Zone," which barred all immigrants from Asia.
1921 Quota Act of 1921 limited immigrants to 3% of each nationality present in the US in 1910. This cut southern and eastern European immigrants to less than 1/4 of those in US before WW I. Asians still barred; no limits on western hemisphere. Non-quota category established: wives, children of citizens, learned professionals, and domestic servants not counted in quotas.
1922 Japanese made ineligible for citizenship.
1924 Quotas changed to 2% of each nationality based on numbers in US in 1890. Based on surnames (many anglicized at Ellis Island) and not the census figures, 82% of all immigrants allowed in the country came from western and northern Europe, 16% from southern and eastern Europe, 2% from the rest of the world. As no distinctions were made between refugees and immigrants, this limited Jewish emigres during 1930s and 40s.

Despite protests from many native people, Native Americans made citizens of the United States. Border Patrol established.
1929 The annual quotas of the 1924 Act are made permanent.
1940 Provided for finger printing and registering of all aliens.
1943 In the name of unity among the Allies, the Chinese Exclusion Laws were repealed, and China's quota was set at a token 105 immigrants annually. Basis of the Bracero Program established with importation of agricultural workers from North, South, and Central America.
1946 Procedures adopted to facilitate immigration of foreign-born wives, finace(e)s, husbands, and children of US armed forces personnel.
1948 Displaced Persons Act allowed 205,000 refugees over two years; gave priority to Baltic States refugees; admitted as quota immigrants. Technical provisions discriminated against Catholics and Jews; those were dropped in 1953, and 205,000 refugees were accepted as non-quota immigrants.
1950 The grounds for exclusion and deportation are expanded. All aliens required to report their addresses annually.
1952 Immigration and Nationality Act eliminated race as a bar to immigration or citizenship. Japan's quota was set at 185 annually. China's stayed at 105; other Asian countries were given 100 a piece. Northern and western Europe's quota was placed at 85% of all immigrants. Tighter restrictions were placed on immigrants coming from British colonies in order to stem the tide of black West Indians entering under Britain's generous quota. Non-quota class enlarged to include husbands of American women.
1953 The 1948 refugee law expanded to admit 200,000 above the existing limit
1965 Hart-Celler Act abolished national origins quotas, establishing separate ceilings for the eastern (170,000) and western (120,000) hemispheres (combined in 1978). Categories of preference based on family ties, critical skills, artistic excellence, and refugee status.
1978 Separate ceilings for Western and Eastern hemispheric immigration combined into a worldwide limit of 290,000.
1980 The Refugee Act removes refugees as a preference category; reduces worldwide ceiling for immigration to 270,000.
1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act provided for amnesty for many illegal aliens and sanctions for employers hiring illegals.
1989 A bill gives permanent status to non-immigrant registered nurses who have lived in US for at least three years and met established certification standards.
1990 Immigration Act of 1990 limited unskilled workers to 10,000/year; skilled labor requirements and immediate family reunification major goals. Continued to promote nuclear family model. Foreign-born in US was 7%.
2001 USA Patriot Act amended the Immigration and Nationality Act to broaden the scope of aliens ineligible for admission or deportable due to terrorist activities to include an alien who: (1) is a representative of a political, social, or similar group whose political endorsement of terrorist acts undermines U.S. antiterrorist efforts; (2) has used a position of prominence to endorse terrorist activity, or to persuade others to support such activity in a way that undermines U.S. antiterrorist efforts (or the child or spouse of such an alien under specified circumstances); or (3) has been associated with a terrorist organization and intends to engage in threatening activities while in the United States.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Aug 25, 2015 - 08:56am PT

Today's Hooverville: Sorry, there is only Trump Village.
http://trumpvillageestates.com/
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Aug 25, 2015 - 09:00am PT
Funny stuff, zBrown and Skully. Thanks for the laughs.

That Trumpelstilskin article is really good.
jstan

climber
Aug 25, 2015 - 09:26am PT
Since the big War we have changed news reporting from an essential part of running a republic into "infotainment". Trump has extended this to the point of making elections themselves into "electainment." This is all so, so, Romanesque.

But one thing we can't call Trump is stupid. He sees us for what we are and has freed himself to sell apples during the primary and switch to oranges during the election, without missing a beat. I think the label stupid rests a little closer to home.

And in this free for Trump period any slime he puts on his chief rival, unelectable though Bush most probably is, Bush will never be able to clean it off. The first thing a person hears is the thing that person remembers. Bush is frankly down for the count. So we owe Trump for that, assuredly.

It may be time for the republicans, now as in 1932, to declare they just don't have a candidate.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 25, 2015 - 10:12am PT
Can ya spare a quarter hour?

[Click to View YouTube Video]
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Aug 25, 2015 - 10:42am PT
protected by two oceans and Canada!

There, I fixed it for you.

%^)
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 25, 2015 - 11:31am PT
As a country, we are circling the drain. I think people actually bought into the "American exceptionalism" bullsh#t. We were LUCKY. Giant pool of natural resources, protected by two oceans, only manufacturing center left standing after WWII.

I rather suspect that if this is true, it's because we've given up on "american exceptionalism," and tried to be like everyone else. That said, I can't imagine why any sentient being would vote for Chump. His vacuous rhetoric makes the other candidates' empty promises seem specific and serious.

John
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 25, 2015 - 11:41am PT
We foolishly squandered our exceptionalism

and squandered the future by diverting our treasury from society and into the pockets of the rich.

We were great when we built this nation, we don't build our nation anymore, we just tear it apart and sell off any part of it for a buck.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 25, 2015 - 11:58am PT
I can't imagine why any sentient being would vote for Chump.

Because he is the Republican ID laid bare. The perfect embodiment of the GOP base voters...loud, belligerent, moronic, unapologetic, xenophobic clowns.

He has traction because he will stand up and say all the nasty little things those base voters actually believe, but were for so long only conveyed by their candidates via dog-whistle sh#t like Regan announcing in Philadelphia Mississippi, the entire "birther" nonsense, and the "welfare queens in cadillacs and strapping young bucks buying t-bone steaks with their foodstamps" narratives. T-Rump will just stand there and say it, and when people incredulously point out that he is either xenophobic or insane, he doubles down or tosses out non-sequiturs. The base rubes are too stupid to notice or too small-minded to care.

Build a party based on throwing red meat to the rubes, eventually the inmates take over the asylum. They don't need and haven't had a coherent policy agenda for about two decades now, it's just tribal resentment politics. The so-called "conservative" party who spend like drunken sailors, just don't raise the revenue to pay for it, nor spend it on anything that benefits the vast majority of the population (although defense contractors make out just fine). The only thing they are out to "converse" is white male privilege and the 1% raking off all the productivity and income gains leaving a hollowed-out middle class and sinking nation in their wake.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 25, 2015 - 12:20pm PT
it's just tribal resentment politics

Are you saying that sort of politics exists in just the Republican party?

(I do like "T-rump," by the way, even if "Chump" is perhaps as accurate a representation of him.)

John
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 25, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
I find it really amazing what Trump has been able to do. He is holding in the polls, and far more importantly, he appears to have swallowed up the free media, wholesale.

Those candidates who have to get their image and message out to the wide electorate, cannot, unless they spend precious dollars to do so.

In addition, he has basically put a hit on some, like Walker:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/scott-walker-falls-flat-on-his-face/2015/08/24/5bb3b486-4a93-11e5-8ab4-c73967a143d3_story.html?hpid=z4

Attempting to out-conservative Trump is folly — even if the guy is a former liberal who nakedly reinvented himself for this campaign. Trump, if he is thinking about anything, is not thinking about preserving his electability should he somehow win the Republican nomination. He is taking the most conservative positions possible on a range of issues — and otherwise viable contenders are doing themselves damage by trying to match him.

Nobody has been hurt by Trump more than Walker, who has seen his support drop nearly in half in the last month, to single digits. After his flat performance in the debate, he lost his longtime lead in Iowa. His donors and supporters are jittery, and, as my Post colleagues Jenna Johnson and Sean Sullivan reported last week, he tried to reassure them with a vow to emphasize his conservatism with more passion.

That could explain the birthright-citizenship fiasco. A day after Trump declared his opposition to granting automatic citizenship to those born on American soil, Walker embraced the same position, only to jettison it six days later.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 25, 2015 - 01:02pm PT
It's like I'm having a f*#king Trump nightmare, except I'm awake.....


But it is kinda fun watching the other GOP Keystone Cops spin out trying to get attention away from Captain Loudmouth.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 25, 2015 - 01:02pm PT
Are you saying that sort of politics exists in just the Republican party?

No, but I am saying it is the dominant factor in the Republican party, while present but to a negligible extent in the other major party. The nutjob contingent within the GOP is close to 50%.

(I arrive at this 50% number as follows: Based on about 49/51 GOP/DEM split based on popular vote totals over the last 15 years, and a consistent 27% of national voters who always support whatever the right wing extremist meme of the day might happen to be...birthers, T-Rump supporters, etc...throw out any crazy sh#t, like that guy wanting to issue hunting permits to shoot people crossing the border, and it almost always gets 27% in favor, and you know the vast, vast majority of those crazies make up the GOP base.)
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 25, 2015 - 01:13pm PT
Trump is sort of like the singularity which has finally formed under the collapsed weight of a dedicated fifty year campaign of based on fear.

It started out as a way to swing white southern democrats to the gop and instead of dying once that was accomplished in instead became how the gop did business. The problem is people crave novelty and that has forced the gop to consistently up the both the volume and the rhetoric.

The result? The over-stretched hyperbole and clownish bombast which now defines the gop primary. You have to pander to an ever-lower common denominator to stand out from the herd and all the ideas are rooted in the basest fears of an uneducated, 50 year-old, white male. Demonization is the letter of the day and if you aren't a victim wallowing in self-pity then you just aren't seeing things straight.

I'm guessing by the time the 2020 gop primary rolls around, their town hall meetings will be a near pentecostal experience replete with snakes and glossolalia (but then I guess the latter is already happening).
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Aug 25, 2015 - 01:52pm PT
Wait, so you guys don't want him to win just for the pure entertainment value?


Not even a little!?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 25, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
I still think he is performing a World's Greatest April Fools joke on America

He just says anything he can think of that's purely despicable and sees how long they will let him go on and how many suckers he can swoop up along the way.

Before the election he will expose the Republican base as the most stupid humans on the planet, saying "you have to be Hitler youth to agree with the crap I was spewing, I intentionally said the worst things I could think of and you guys gobbled it up like it was candy, you should be ashamed of yourselves"


There is No way the Republican Party will allow him to be their Presidential pick, they will do something to make sure that he gets the boot or has a "Terrible Accident".
We all know that the upper GOP operatives are capable of any dirty deed necessary.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 25, 2015 - 02:17pm PT
I had to look this one up

Glossolalia or (speaking in tongues) is the fluid vocalizing of speech-like syllables that lack any readily comprehended meaning, in some cases as part of religious practice. Some consider it as a part of a sacred language.
Glossolalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlossolaliaWikipedia


The GOP's words are individually comprehensible, but any given sequence of them (i.e. any statement) sounds like demented gibberish to me. So, I guess that is a form of glossolalia.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 25, 2015 - 02:21pm PT
Gibberish knows no party

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 25, 2015 - 02:51pm PT
I still think he is performing a World Class April Fools joke on America

Craig, you and I agree on that one.

El Cap, we obviously disagree on the identity of the party or parties resorting to "tribal resentment politics." The attacks on the unidentified "rich" employed by the Democrats form the basis of their current existence.

John
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 25, 2015 - 02:58pm PT
Please read the article.








http://www.salon.com/2015/08/25/confederate_fantasies_the_donald_trump_surge_inside_the_dangerous_southern_mythology_creeping_into_the_gop_primary/
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 25, 2015 - 03:40pm PT
Abortion is Now the Hot issue of 2015.

Ohio (with the approval of Gov. John Kasich) will ban abortions on Down's Syndrome fetuses.
So if you have a regular fetus, you may be able to have an abortion, but if the tests say the fetus has Down's Syndrome, you must have the child or Go to Jail.
Sick, what happened to keeping the Gov. out of your personal life?

But just as bad as a total ban on abortions with no exceptions for rape or incest.

Now we have to shut down the Government to stop the Baby parts factory (Planned Parenthood) which happens to be based on total lies perpetuated by these lying liars just to pull on the heart strings of the cultists.


Ted Cruz Plots Government Shutdown Fight Over Planned Parenthood

He said both parties want "an empty show vote" on defunding the family planning provider.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ted-cruz-government-shutdown-planned-parenthood_55dcd12de4b08cd3359db3af?utm_hp_ref=politics&kvcommref=mostpopular

Posted: 08/25/2015

Washington -- Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) thinks Republican leaders are bluffing when they say they want to defund Planned Parenthood, so he is enlisting Christian pastors across the nation to help mobilize voters to force his colleagues' hands and threaten a government shutdown.

Cruz implored more than a thousand pastors and religious leaders on Tuesday to "preach from the pulpit" against Planned Parenthood and rally public support for an amendment defunding the family provider in the must-pass federal budget bill in November. If Congress attaches the defunding amendment to the budget instead of holding a vote on the standalone bill, it cannot keep funding Planned Parenthood without shutting down the whole federal government.


Yes, shut er down, that will send a vital message that you mean Business..
and show us how insane you are and that you should never hold an public servant office again since you seem to have no idea of what your job is as a Senator.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 25, 2015 - 03:45pm PT
Yup. There's Politards that say they will shut down the Government over this - for sure.

If the ideologues shut down the Government, Trump wins. He's the anti machine ideologue.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 25, 2015 - 03:50pm PT
The GOP Platform

Women.. in the crosshairs
Latinos.. go back to Mexico, if you don't; we will lock you up and drop you off in Tijuana if you live through the torturous detention
Blacks.. sit down and SHUT Up
Gays. go back into the closet .. we will fight you because we don't like you, er' the bible ses so.
Muslims. we are at war with you

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 25, 2015 - 04:01pm PT
Trump is a high-energy person.

He could fix our bridges.
Undocumented immigrants will be gone so fast.


"I love the bible." -trump
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 25, 2015 - 04:03pm PT
Gays, blacks, hispanics, abortion, guns and guberment.

It's a pretty limited and rotating palette which is why, fifty years later, the only solution is to turn the volume up to shrill.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 25, 2015 - 04:21pm PT
Well, I never thought I'd be saying this, but I think Trump is turning out to be very good for politics in the U.S.

Not just hedge (funding) my bets.

President? I think not.

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 25, 2015 - 04:35pm PT
He's certainly blurring the line between politics and entertainment. The top story tonight, on both the CBS Evening News and the following show, Entertainment Tonight, was exactly the same. Trumps Megan Kelly tweets.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 25, 2015 - 04:55pm PT
Poor Jorge Ramos!

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQzSUx-eLDc
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 25, 2015 - 04:56pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 25, 2015 - 05:02pm PT
Anyway, if anybody is disputing that a more than de minimus number of folks come to the United States from so-called Third World countries to have babies and not to work, y'all better come to Southern California and start a small entrepreneurial business and meet a few of the people emigrating.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 25, 2015 - 05:12pm PT
y'all better come to Southern California and start a small entrepreneurial business and meet a few of the people emigrating

What's the point of meeting them if they're just gonna emigrate?

"Nice to meetchya. Sayonara, sucka!"
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 25, 2015 - 05:20pm PT
^That would be the pre-Trump voluntary deportation we've all come to be so fond of or the "old in and out".

ß Î Ø T Ç H

climber
ne'er–do–well
Aug 25, 2015 - 10:35pm PT
November, 2016 ...
You are consulting your crystal balls.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Boise, ID or the fricken Bakken, variously
Aug 26, 2015 - 04:10am PT
He has crystal balls? That could get uncomfortable, eh? Special shorts, perhaps?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 26, 2015 - 08:26am PT
msg from Donald



I totally disagree with the FOX statement. I do not think Megyn Kelly is a quality journalist. I think her questioning of me, despite all of the polls saying I won the debate, was very unfair. Hopefully in the future I will be proven wrong and she will be able to elevate her standards to a level of professionalism that a network such as FOX deserves.

More importantly, I am very pleased to see the latest polls from Public Policy Polling showing me at a strong number one with 35% in New Hampshire, the Monmouth University poll showing me, again at number one, with 30% in South Carolina and the latest national poll from Gravis where I am again the clear front runner with 40%. It was also just announced that I won the prestigious corn kernel poll at the Iowa State Fair by a landslide.


I will be in Iowa tonight with my speech being broadcast live on CNN and other networks. My sole focus in running for the Presidency is to Make America Great Again!
dirtbag

climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 08:31am PT
Trump is such a lovable fascist.
Norton

Social climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 08:33am PT
Yes, I too long for the days when American Was Great.

Oh, bring back Leave It to Beaver and Father Knows Best.

Captain...or Skully

climber
Boise, ID or the fricken Bakken, variously
Aug 26, 2015 - 09:13am PT
I would rather have ferrets gnawing on my scrotum.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 26, 2015 - 09:42am PT
I would rather have ferrets gnawing on my scrotum.

I'm sure the Donald would be happy to arrange that.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 09:47am PT
According to Donald, illegal Mexican Anchor babies are already doing that.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:13am PT
I watched a significant part of his speech.

He is a TERRIBLE speaker....he cannot complete any statement without sidetracking himself, making it very difficult to follow what he is saying.

He feels totally spontaneous in his speaking style.

I imagine that is a large part of his attraction. He feels genuine....you are seeing the real Trump, not an image that he thinks you want to hear.

That was part of Reagan's attraction. Even people who disagreed voted for him, because they found him genuine.

Sincerity is the key. If you can fake that, you've got a huge advantage....

Trumps constant self-promotion gets old fast, but I think that gets overlooked in the face of genuineness.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:16am PT
That was part of Reagan's attraction. Even people who disagreed voted for him, because they found him genuine.

+1
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:16am PT
The Dems underestimate him at their peril.
couchmaster

climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:29am PT
I can't imagine any scenario where Trump is the Republican candidate.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

He's up over 20 percent in the polls over the next most popular dude right now, but even the most clueless will be waking up at some point, and when they do, I imagine that the hangover and regrets will rival looking into your angry wife's eyes the morning after any hooker, heavy drinks and multiple drug overdose evening.

Trump. Not. Gonna. Happen.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:35am PT
Reagan's attraction certainly included his authenticity. In an interesting sort of way, he reminded me of my father's reaction to Hubert Humphrey. My Dad was a lifeong Republican (of the Hiram Johnson type - for those who know California history), but he trusted Humphrey because he knew that Humphrey was a good man who clearly had more than his self-interest in mind.

Reagan, like Humphrey, had coherant principles that he articluated and followed, regardless of whether they were popular. In contrast, Trump's attraction begins and ends with his seeming unconcern for polls or convention. While that lends an aura of authenticity, he lacks any coherant, articulated principles of governance and comes across to those who think (as opposed to those who merely feel) as a self-absorbed jerk who inherited a lot of money.

As an aside, before you accuse me of simply adopting the politics of my parents, understand that my mother is a life-long Democrat, but only because viable Socialists weren't significant candidates. It will be interesting to see her reaction if Sanders continues to have traction. My Dad voted for Coolidge, Hoover, Hoover, Willkie, Dewey, Dewey, Eisenhower, Eisenhower, Nixon, Goldwater, Nixon, Nixon and Ford. No matter where I ended up politically, I had to be somewhat like one of my parents, and different from the other.

John
10b4me

Social climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:54am PT
The Dems underestimate him at their peril.

Reilly, I think the dems are worried about any republican.
A lot of people do not like Hillary, and Bernie can't win.
I have a feeling that Biden met with Warren, not to ask for her support, but to ask her to be his running mate.
That would be a smart move. She would get the womens vote, and the Sanders vote.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 12:08pm PT
Crankster still hasn't answered my question from a few days back, maybe he's ignoring me?

Were Biden to enter and follow up with a Biden Warren ticket would you vote Biden Warren instead of Clinton?

Crankster?

Bueller?


Maximus?

Kyle Reese?

Jean Luc Picard?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Aug 26, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
Donald is real all right...real rich!!!!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 26, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
HFCS...should Biden run I doubt he'd announce a VP early. But a Biden/Warren ticket would be great. So would a Clinton/Warren ticket. Joe and Hillary are friends and their views are interchangeable. I'll reserve judgment until I see how this e-mail nonsense plays out. Either would be fine with me.

I think Joe is putting out the hints in case Hillary's e-mail deal goes south. If it doesn't, I think he'll pass.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 01:41pm PT
Crankster, thx for the reply. :)

Sorry, I could've been clearer. I should've said: Were Biden to enter, he might or perhaps better he probably would get Warren's blessing (perhaps the reason for their meeting) or Warren's later acceptance of VP (perhaps the reason for their meeting). In that case could you see yourself preferring Biden over Clinton at that point likely presuming a Biden Warren ticket?

I'm pretty sure their meeting was to get clear on two points: (1) Warren's endorsement of Biden were he to enter; (2) Acceptance of VP offer were he to win.

It's what I'd want to know.

I just don't see a Clinton-Warren ticket.


On the other hand, I could of course be very wrong here, as it's not my main occupation.

But in my imagination I can see the rug once again pulled out from under Hillary... by a Biden win propelled by Democratic visions of a Biden Warren ticket (these in turn given impetus by a Warren endorsement).


Here's how 2016 will turn out if current polls are right. Going to be a close one.

Courtesy Nate Silver


Personally, I'm still front and square in Hillary's camp. I don't let the Republican Propaganda (the Benghazi beatings, the email beatings) get to me the way other Dems do.

The Clintons again in the white house would be sweet.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 03:14pm PT
"Doubt the Warren supporters are gaga over Joe."

Again, I'm just a 5.3d in all this, but insofar as this is true, wouldn't that make her a stronger candidate for the Biden ticket then - when the time comes?

I don't know, I'm just imagining out loud here.

.....

Locker, somebody saw that particular Trump in butter a couple days ago.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 03:14pm PT
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 03:22pm PT
Here it is...


But I'm not a supernaturalist though, so I don't put any importance into it.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 03:29pm PT
Ha! :-)
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 26, 2015 - 05:28pm PT
I will wage Money that Trump will not be the final GOP presidential candidate.
No Matter How many votes he gets, nor what the polls are.

There is Just No way,
the GOP need a puppet.
He is no puppet, so they will make sure that he is not there as the GOP candidate in Nov 2016.


as Ken said

he is the worst speaker I ever witnessed....
at least 85% of what he says is about how he is so great,
it's all about his poll numbers, how everyone loves him, they are cheering Him!!!!

It's unbelievable the things he tangents on.. he goes on about NOTHING for huge periods of time, yet the dupes love it
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 26, 2015 - 05:54pm PT
No way Trump believes the sh#t he's saying; this is all just a game for him and he's really enjoying it.

Prediction: The Repub convention will deadlock and Romney will step in and save the day. Magic underwear stocks to go up 500%.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 26, 2015 - 05:58pm PT
He has as much chance of winning as I do.

Hillary wins big. We are 14 months away from the election.

Trump will fade away painfully like a bad hangover.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 26, 2015 - 06:09pm PT
Hillary wins big. We are 14 months away from the election.

LOL... if she can win from prison. (One can hope, right? Maybe there is still a shred of justice in this country for the "high and mighty" after all.)

Another Clinton in the White House would be sweet.

LOL... "sweet" only if a person who cares ONLY for herself having the ultimate CEO job so that she can continue to gorge herself on money and power like the CEOs that she doesn't even bother to decry because she's just like them... only if THAT would be sweet.

Look, the huge appeal to Trump (and Sanders) is that Americans are SICK of these money and power-grabbing "representatives" that do NOT represent.

HFCS, you are fine and dandy with the Hillabeast wearing her corruption on her sleeve and joking about it. Most people in this country aren't. If you can drink THAT koolaid, you shouldn't be surprised at the many who can overlook the vast faults of the Donald in favor of his "I can't be bought" platform.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Aug 26, 2015 - 06:18pm PT
Lets just say Donald didn't get that round mouth from eating banana's.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 26, 2015 - 06:25pm PT
Proven corruption.

For most democrats, the Hillabeast could CONFESS, and they'd still complain: "It was forced. It's not a valid confession." On and on....

The "email beating" is not a tempest in a teapot, and if you or I handled State secrets as she did, we would be in federal prison. Those of us that deal with national-class computer security know the MANY and egregious mistakes the Hillabeast made in her studied efforts to avoid compliance with the FOIA.


zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 06:32pm PT
At least he stays in shape.


It's all in the workin' out.

Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Aug 26, 2015 - 09:35pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
john hansen

climber
Aug 26, 2015 - 09:45pm PT
Donald Trump is the most polarizing politician in many years.

Lets hope sanity prevails and he does not turn our country into a police state.

A small percentage can change the paradigm , think back on Macarthy..

Hillary is a bust, who will step forward to lead the country?

Still plenty time before the election.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 26, 2015 - 10:57pm PT
Still plenty time before the election.

What election.. oh you mean the day the duped american public votes among the candidates chosen for them by those with the real power to put people in office?

The real election was held already.. The acceptable candidates are in place.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:09pm PT
America is not ready for the leaders it really needs.

America must still suffer the karmic reactions for the criminal deeds it has been performing for so long.

There's a lot of truth in that, Werner! As there is in....

The real election was held already.. The acceptable candidates are in place.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:12pm PT
A vote for Trump is essentially a vote for any Democrat candidate.

Run, Donald, Run!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:25pm PT
Anybody can run. Just go out and get 65 million people to vote for you.

Trump is the choice of 25% of Republicans and conservative independents, who make up about 40% of voters. So he's really only got the support of 10% of all voters. He's generating a lot of sound bites that will get played back next year, wait and see.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:28pm PT
A vote for Trump is essentially a vote for any Democrat candidate.

As recently as last week I too thought that. Now I'm not so sure. Now it feels to me more like wishful thinking on the part of the Demoncrats.

The wheels are coming off of the Hillabeast's bus. A reasonable theory is that the lack of pressure to resolve this email scandal quickly is in part a Rebumblecon strategy so that she CAN become the candidate, then lose the election, then have no Demoncrat crony to pardon her once the federal indictments start piling up.

A Donald vs. Hillabeast election really would be interesting, if as nothing more than a petri dish of game theory. :-)
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:36pm PT
Trump is the choice of 25% of Republicans and conservative independents, who make up about 40% of voters. So he's really only got the support of 10% of all voters.

Not quite an accurate assessment. The fact that his numbers are so high in such a huge field of Rebumblecon candidates is more telling than you're making it out to be. By contrast, the Hillabeast has been alone from the start and is only recently being forced to deal with a semi-credible contender. The fact that Bernie is gaining ground so quickly should be fear and trembling time for the Beast camp.

In this election, voters are already making it clear that they are sick of "establishment." The Hillabeast is the very essence of "establishment." And the Donald is only gaining ground, and that against, again, a ridiculously large pool of Rebumblecon candidates.

It's far too early to speculate in ANY direction, but your "10% of all voters" is not taking some key factors into account as the Rebumblecon field narrows.

Where the "Run, Donald, run" comment finds solid ground is if he switches from Rebumblecon to independent late in the game. Then, I would guess that "any Democrat" WILL end up in the WH.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:38pm PT
We're into the fantasy politics game now...wow, what a whopper.

We'll see. The supposed "tempest in a teapot" is NOT going away. And it's presently relentless momentum growth is timed just about right to....
10b4me

Social climber
Aug 27, 2015 - 06:06am PT
The bottom line is, are Americans willing to forgive Hillary for her indiscretions, as they did Bill, and elect her anyway?
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 27, 2015 - 06:15am PT
It's not exactly telling people to get out there and beat people with metal rods. But when your response to news that a couple of jackasses just invoked your name when they beat the crap out of a homeless guy is to salute your "passionate" followers who "love this country," you've gone next-level.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 27, 2015 - 06:48am PT
You make some fair points, mb, however, we're hearing a lot now from party activists, primary voters...the general electorate is going to be a different story. I know a lot of folks on both sides of the aisle and I can't name one who would vote for Trump. Ok, maybe a couple if he were the Repub nominee. Personally, I like the idea of a 3rd party, a populist movement, but lacking that I think the likely scenario is Bush v Clinton.

Here's why the Repubs lose...this clip will be played over and over..."Get out of my country". He's a US citizen, of course.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 27, 2015 - 06:52am PT

He cares about the middle man!




Edit: crankster be sure to type the word edit when you add more content to ur posts..
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 27, 2015 - 07:15am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Jorge is such a victim..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



Edit: seems like Jorge is working for Hillary...


http://www.theamericanmirror.com/surprise-jorge-ramoss-daughter-works-for-hillary-campaign/
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Aug 27, 2015 - 07:20am PT
Two of Donald's ideas, both of which are disqualifying.:
1. He wants to execute Edward Snowden.
2. He has called global warming a Chinese idea designed to raise the price of American goods.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 27, 2015 - 07:22am PT
So I do think if Biden enters the race we can read into this dvt that he has assurances from Warren regarding (a) endorsement of his candidacy and, if it comes down to it later, (b) acceptance of the VP offer.

Also we can read into it assurances from Obama that he'll only be a positive influence, not a negative one, as events unfold.

Exciting!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 27, 2015 - 07:34am PT
Eric,

can I add a third?

He called the Bible, numerous times now, the greatest book and his The Art of the Deal the second greatest book.

Another deal breaker.
viv.r.e

climber
Sacramento
Aug 27, 2015 - 07:38am PT
I'll be ready if I can find a good pinata before the next debate.



http://downtrend.com/robertgehl/bashing-the-donald-trump-pinata-sells-out
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 27, 2015 - 08:09am PT
Be honest, the reason you like Trump is that he is a racist. Just admit it.



http://ringoffireradio.com/2015/08/trump-kept-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-says-only-short-jews-can-count-his-money-not-black/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 27, 2015 - 08:13am PT
No, Bob, we like him cause he's FUN!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 27, 2015 - 08:14am PT
What is fun about him? That is a liar, racist, divorced four times, bankrupt five times?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 27, 2015 - 08:19am PT

He's fun and she's hot!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 27, 2015 - 08:25am PT
Trump is nothing but a guilty pleasure for Republicans...kinda like the difference between the girl you would date, vs. the girl you will marry. Until marriage time is closer, you are gonna have as much fun as you can!
dirtbag

climber
Aug 27, 2015 - 08:42am PT
I.e., not the kind of candidate you'd bring home to meet mom and pop.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 27, 2015 - 10:31am PT
You make some fair points, mb, however, we're hearing a lot now from party activists, primary voters...the general electorate is going to be a different story.

Also fair points!

I'm coming to believe that the early polling isn't worth very much at all. I think this is shaping up to be a different sort of election than we've seen in a long, long time. Ben Carson running at 12%? Crrrraaaazzzzyyy!
dirtbag

climber
Aug 27, 2015 - 10:43am PT
I read an article this morning pointing out that Herman Cain polled at 30% in Octover 2011.

The difference, the article continued, was that Romney was close behind. No one is close to trump right now, but that also could be due to the fact there are 16 other candidates and the Viable Non-Trump Candidate has not yet emerged. In other words, it should be a much tighter race 3 months from now as the other 16 reduce in number.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 27, 2015 - 10:47am PT
I don’t think The Donald can survive the primary process for several reasons.

1. His polling numbers show him approaching 30%. But almost the same percentage of those polled will not support him under any circumstances.

2. Combine that with the fact that the remaining 70% of Republican votes are divided among more than 12 candidates. One by one these people are going to drop out of the race as their polling numbers stagnate and the money shuts off.

3. Right now Trump is getting all of the media coverage. As the field whittles down to one or two adversaries this will change. Right now there are too many candidates in the field for the media to cover them all, and Trump is “fun.”

4. When Trump is facing a real fight if he continues to berate his opponents in the vile ways he has so far he will look less and less like a President. And he has certainly given his future serious opponents a bucket-load of ridiculous sound bites and video. Wait 'till that stuff starts getting thrown back at him. The ad campaigns will be brutal. My prediction is that while right now certain people say they are all-in for him, reality will limit his appeal.

At least we can hope…
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 27, 2015 - 11:04am PT
Trump is nothing but a guilty pleasure for Republicans.

Not so. See Kris's post, above, for what most Republicans think of him. To me, Trump is the embodiment of Zaphod Beeblebrox in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. Someone whose outrageous actions distract from who's really in power and what they're doing.

John
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 27, 2015 - 11:10am PT
It serves that purpose, too, John...no doubt.

But I maintain Trump is serving the part of the political process that typically occurs in Primary state electoral politics...a candidate the says all of the raw stuff that appeals to the 'base', to get everybody riled up...then the message gets moderated as the general election nears.

Trump is effectively doing this all by himself, and he will eventually fall away (one way or the other). The other candidates, having disassociated themselves for strategic reasons, will then benefit from a voter base that is energized, paying attention, and will show up on election day, checking the box for whatever Republican makes it that far.
rmuir

Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Aug 27, 2015 - 11:38am PT
Trump: Making America Hate Again! ®™
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 27, 2015 - 11:39am PT
Good one, Robs!

John
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 27, 2015 - 11:58am PT
Some very insightful comments, guys. Thanks!

This has actually been a useful thread, in general, imho.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 27, 2015 - 12:08pm PT
Rob hit the nail on the head...the republicans on this thread are pussy footing around what he really stand for.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 27, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
RIP Chocolate Thunder

Trump will be just like Bird after he gets his whuppin'



http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2015/08/27/darryl-dawkins-dead-58-chocolate-thunder/71276460/

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 27, 2015 - 03:43pm PT
Why are you guys dissing on Trump so?

You know he loves Mexicans, you know he loves Chinese.

And you know he would get along with Putin great.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Aug 27, 2015 - 07:48pm PT
Craig Fry's link above leads to a documentary about Trump's sociopathy and his wanton disregard for the rights and lives of others.

The film was originally called, You've Been Trumped! by Anthony Baxter, when I saw it a year or two ago. The film linked to above has been renamed, which confuses me. The film is also available on DVD from Baxter's website, or for streaming online at Hulu.com, and maybe Netflix.com, too.

The entire sad Trump-versus-Scotland saga played out as a tale of pure sordidness, comprising a veritable nosology of ethical dysfunction and behavioral nadirs.

The content was so shocking and nauseating, I could only unwind by vomiting my own Tale of Pure Sordidness into my computer,
Trumpelstiltskin and the Scottish Sand Swindle Scheme



Here are some of the, er, lowlights from the film:

Trump bulldozed and destroyed a thousand acres of endangered, protected sand dunes and wetlands in NE Scotland. He called this envirocide "The World's Greatest Golf Course". And, he claimed that he was an environmentalist, protecting the sand dunes with his invasive plant species, because they would "stabilize the dunes, and prevent them from blowing away". Apparently, Trump thought no one would be aware that the dunes had been there for thousands and thousands and thousands of years, doing just fine, without Trumps so-called environmental protection. Or, perhaps Trump is just so vain, he believes he can conjure reality out thin air, just by making false and ludicrous statements.

Ironically, the dunes had previously been protected at the highest possible level in Scotland, as a Site of Specific Scientific Interest, because they migrated up and down the coast with the assistance of the coastal winds. The local Scots proudly called the moving dunes "Scotland's Rainforest". Trump's fairways covered and immobilized the dunes, in 100% conflict with the reason they had been protected in the first place.


He had conned the Scottish Parliament with his money-money-money-money con man bullsh#t, and they voted to overturn the environmental protection laws, and overrule the horrified farmers and their emasculated local government. Trump essentially claimed he would spin the worthless Scottish sand into a mountain of fine gold. Like a swooning Lassie, Parliament succumbed to Trump's insidious seduction, and lay back, legs wide, and gave up the virgin wetlands.

Trump then proceeded to harass and terrorize the simple farm folk with his paramilitary armed guards and corrupt local police. The film maker was arrested by the police just for filming and interviewing a local landowner, while they were all on her private property. He was immediately released from jail, because not everyone on the force was on Trump's secret payrolla.

Trump's workers intentionally vandalized home owners' water supplies and electrical wires. At least one home was left without water for about two weeks, after Trump's goons drove onto their private property with a huge vehicle, without permission and for no good reason at all, crushing a water line that was their sole source of water. Later, a similar incident had a goon truck leave the roadway for an unknown reason, pass onto private property, and knock down a utility pole. Again, it took non-stop agitation by the homeowners to finally get Trump to restore their water, electrical and telephone services.

Trump quibbled over a tiny slice of disputed property that a barn had stood on for decades. Trump's surveyor claimed that the property line had been "erroneously surveyed" decades earlier, and that it lay a few feet within the back wall of the barn. Trump told the owner to tear down the barn, so he could reclaim his 300 square feet and restore it to his thousand+ acres. I suppose the legal doctrine of adverse possession doesn't exist in Scotland. Or, it does, and Trump was just being a prick, and hoping the landowner wouldn't know his right to own that tiny slice of land after using it, uncontested, for so long. Trump claims he's a real estate wizard and the ultimate Deal Artist, but he never offered to accept a reasonable payment for that tiny slice of land. Instead, he said that the barn had to go, period. Again, Trump's agenda was to terrorize, harass and drive away the locals, and tear down all the existing, local buildings.

A different local homeowner refused to sell his tidy, stone, historical hilltop home to Trump, who said it was an "eyesore" and needed to be torn down. In retaliation, Trump ordered his bulldozer battalion to pile up tons and tons and tons and tons of sand into a gigantic pile in front of the house, to hide it. Trump said that the mere sight the of elegant, rustic home would have "completely ruined" his WGGC; Trump never explained how the ugly pile of sand, like a demented imbecile's pyramid monument to himself, was better looking. The sand completely destroyed the home's previously grand ocean views - - - it was originally a lighthouse keeper's home, and was specifically sited so that the keeper could watch for errant ships, and keep people safe. Trump's huge pile of sand, though, presented a serious safety hazard because it was not consolidated, or otherwise prevented from sliding down and interring the homeowner during a rain storm. Trump's Art Of The Deal here was clearly to destroy the value of the home, terrorize the owner, and drive him away, so that Trump could stop stamping his tiny little feet in rage, and finally get his way, like the spoiled, pouting, psychopathic shithead child that he has been his entire life.


Trump's latest thing is saying he is ready to build yet another WGGC on the same land in Scotland, and that he is "winning the war over the windmills" - - - he opposes a far-offshore power project, the mere sight of which would "completely ruin" The World's Greatest Golf Course.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 27, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
Trump to me is really what is wrong with America.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 27, 2015 - 08:40pm PT
Trump to me is really what is wrong with America.

Really? Not the Hillabeast? She's more or less okey-dokey, but Trump... he's the metaphor of all that's wrong?

As much as the Hillabeast fills me with visceral disgust, far more than Trump (and that's saying something), I wouldn't say what you just did even about her.

There's a LOT wrong, but to make any one person the metaphor for it is just, well, to me entirely shocking.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 27, 2015 - 09:03pm PT
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Aug 27, 2015 - 09:05pm PT
Donald is the man of the hour in the center ring of the Great American Circus.

Who else has the showmanship of P.T.Barnum, the bluntness of a Harry S, Truman, the lunacy of modern Reality TV Stars and the chutzpah of a stereotypical Nu Yoorka?

He sums up the psychosis of Modern Americanism as it's best wouldn't you say?

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 27, 2015 - 09:09pm PT
Not mentioned in the body count articles is Cosmicragsman , professional window washer , part-time voyeurist , scary clown impersonator and wanna be rock climber , is a person of interest in the ongoing investigation...rj
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Aug 27, 2015 - 09:27pm PT
^^^Carly Fiorina got fat?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 27, 2015 - 10:11pm PT
Ever seen the Bush bodycount, Cosmic?


Presidential bodycounts are an olllllldd tradition.


Sid Adger: Mr. Adger, a Houston oil supply company executive and Bush family friend, died in 1996 of Unknown Causes. Mr. Adger was the mysterious businessman who approached General James Rose and asked him to help George W. Bush avoid Vietnam by recommending him for a pilot position with the National Guard.

General James Rose: General Rose recommended George W. Bush for a pilot position with the Texas National Guard. He died of Unknown Causes in 1993. He was immediately buried and no autopsy was performed.

Orlando Letelier: He was torn to bits by a car bomb on the streets of Washington DC just before he was to testify about the Chilean dictator Pinochet. After the bombing, CIA Director George H. W. Bush told the FBI that there had been no Chilean involvement whatsoever. In 1991 the post-Pinochet Chilean Supreme Court asked George H. W. Bush if he would submit to questioning. He refused.

Ronni Moffit: She was Letelier's assistant. She and her husband were riding in the car with Letelier when the bomb exploded. Mr. Moffit survived. Ronni didn't.

Amiram Nir: He was a former Israeli agent who was in Jerusalem with George Bush during Iran Contra. He went under the assumed name of Pat Weber. Nir was scheduled to testify to the Senate subcommittee and it was feared he would reveal the truth. He perished, following the shooting-down of his aircraft with missiles from the helicopter of a man called Gene Tatum, 25-year CIA deep cover agent.

Senator John Tower: He was appointed by the Reagan/Bush Administration to chair the bipartisan committee to investigate the Iran/Contra scandals. He directed the Tower Report and had all the Iran Contra documents and knew the inside of the story. He was killed in an uninvestigated airplane crash later in Georgia in 1991. Also killed was his daughter, Marian.

Mario Ruiz Massieu: An apparent suicide. He was facing charges that he laundered money for the cocaine cartels. A Houston, Texas jury had found that $8 million in his bank accounts was paid to him by drug cartels.

Steve Kangas: His web site, Liberalism Resurgent, was meticulously researched and presented such a problem to the "real boss" of George Bush, Richard Scaife, that he hired a private detective to look into Kangas' past. Steve Kangas was found in a 39th-floor bathroom outside of Scaife's offices at One Oxford Centre, in Pittsburgh, an apparent suicide. Mr. Kangas, a very prolific writer, left no note. He had brought a fully-packed suitcase of clothes with him to Pittsburgh. He bought a burglar alarm shortly before he left for Pittsburgh. Why did he need a burglar alarm if he was going to commit suicide? An avowed advocate of gun control, he nevertheless bought a gun. What was he afraid of? Why did he go to Pittsburgh? After his death, his computer was sold for $150 and its hard drive wiped clean. Everything in his apartment was thrown away.

Mohammed Zia al-huk: Dictator of Pakistan, and knew all about Iran/Contra, the training, funding, and arming of narco-terrorists such as Osama bin Laden. In August 1988, the same day George Bush got the Republican nomination, his plane crashed into the ground with all engines running. The Pakistanis kept the bodies around (in violation of Islamic custom) for weeks, awaiting US experts. They showed up three weeks later and never checked the bodies. Why?

Malcolm Baldridge: Commerce Secretary May 1987. Baldridge was familiar with the Bush family ties to the Communist Chinese. He died in a mysterious horseback riding accident.

Karla Faye Tucker: She was executed in spite of enormous protest from the public, even those religious groups that advocate the death penalty. Even Pat Robertson thought that Karla was truly repentant and asked George W. Bush to spare her life. He refused. Afterward, in a Talk Magazine interview, this stalwart of the Republican Party made fun of the woman whose death warrant he had sanctioned. How compassionate! As of August 1999, George W. Bush signed his 93rd death warrant.

President John Fitzgerald Kennedy: An internal FBI memo reported that on November 22 a reputable businessman named George H. W. Bush reported hearsay that a certain Young Republican had been talking of killing the president when he came to Houston. The Young Republican was nowhere near Dallas on that date. According to a 1988 story in The Nation, J. Edgar Hoover said in a memo that Mr. George Bush of the CIA had been briefed on November 23rd, 1963 about the reaction of anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Miami to the assassination of President Kennedy. George H. W. Bush has denied this, although he was in Texas at the time and cannot account for his whereabouts at the time. Bush Killed JFKjr

George de Mohrenschildt: A rich Russian oilman, who was described with his wife as being the two people friendliest to Oswald at the time of the assassination. De Mohrenschildt was the man who moved Oswald to Dallas. In the late 1970's, shortly before the first meeting of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, de Mohrenschildt started seeing a new doctor in town. He quickly became mentally unstable, at which time his wife convinced him to stop seeing the doctor. They moved away and left a false forwarding address. On the same day that the Committee tried to contact him about testifying, he was found dead of a gun shot wound. In his personal address book was the entry Bush, George H.W. (Poppy) and Zapata Petroleum Midland (the oil company owned by G.H. Bush).

Barry Seal: He was supposedly murdered by Medellin cartel members, but a 6-month investigation by Sam Dalton, attorney for three of the accused murderers, into Mr. Seal's life and death uncovered some interesting points. The accused's cartel connections were well known, but not their association with Oliver North's enterprise. Mr. Seal was a drug smuggler, up to his armpits in smuggling cocaine for - guess who? - the CIA. During the penalty phase of the Columbians' trial, testimony by one government witness on the activities of Mr. Seal was so damaging to the government, that 2 of the jurors wanted to change their verdict to "not guilty". The personal telephone number of George H. W. Bush was found in the trunk of Mr. Seal's car.

Florence Martin: She was Barry Seal's bookkeeper and was found in October 1994, sprawled across her bed, shot three times in the head through a pillow. Nothing in the house was taken, including her billfold (in plain view) or her late husband's gun collection. There was no evidence of a robbery.

William Colby: This former CIA director disappeared in an apparent boating accident, and a body was later discovered (minus the life jacket Colby's friends insisted he always wore while boating) and buried promptly. John DeCamp, a lawyer from Lincoln, Nebraska, and Colby's close friend and confidant, said Colby's death was not an accident. He stated that Colby was prepared to disclose that missing P.O.W.'s were working for a dope smuggling operation orchestrated by General Colin Powell, Pentagon official Richard Armitage, and George H. W. Bush.

Mrs. E. Howard Hunt: In December 1972, while George H. W. Bush was at the Republican National Convention, a United Airlines flight carrying Mrs. E. Howard Hunt, CIA operative and wife of Howard Hunt, (CIA operative and suspect in the Kennedy assassination) crashed. Believed to be carrying $25,000 in "hush money", she died in this crash.

Danny Casolaro: He was working on a book that tied together the scandals surrounding the presidency of George H. W. Bush. He told his friends he was going to "bring back" the head of the Octopus. Instead, his body was found in a hotel in Martinsburg, West Virginia, on August 10, 1991, an apparent suicide.

Don McCoy: Mr. McCoy had agreed the day before to turn state's evidence in an FBI investigation that threatened some of El Paso's most prominent business leaders. On February 19, 1988, he took off from El Paso International Airport, banked to the right and headed southwest for approximately 2 * miles before it slammed into the I-10 right-of-way and exploded. With him was his secretary and her 11-year old son. All three were killed.

Olof Palme: He was the prime minister of Sweden, assassinated in 1986. Oliver North, the golden boy of the Bush/Reagan machine, had met with Mr. Palme to discuss the possibility of obtaining false end-user certificates for the plethora of weapons that were being purchased, so that they would seem to have come from a country other than the U.S. Mr. Palme refused to participate, after the plan was presented to him. He was dead within weeks.

Archbishop Oscar Romero: Archbishop Romero was a true hero, speaking out against atrocities by a Bush/Reagan backed fascist government. He refused to appear in public with any army or government personnel, and was a voice for the thousands of tortured, slaughtered and oppressed in El Salvador. He was shot in the back while preparing Mass. The death of Archbishop Romero is one among many. There is not enough space to list the hundreds of thousands who died under Reagan/Bush-backed, right-wing governments.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 27, 2015 - 10:39pm PT
mb, please read this. Consider it therapy...really, read it.

I actually have read that one before, but I read it again to humor you. The heart of the argument is: "Nothing particularly special to see here, folks, because all kinds of people at times, for immediate convenience, send/receive classified info over unsecured communication channels."

Nope, sorry, that's not gonna get it done for multiple reasons:

1) Clinton didn't "from time to time" or for occasional convenience set up an entire alternative (and utterly unsecured) mode of communication. She set up an alternate SYSTEM by which she entirely and completely bypassed normal channels of communication. Thus, she placed the responsibility for securing classified information NOT on the State Department channel but entirely upon herself. And she did this in systemic fashion rather than on occasion.

2) She did not even abide by the most minimal standards of securing such a system! Given the nature of her communications, she had a responsibility to at least duplicate the level of security provided by the State Department system that she bypassed in favor of her own. No, instead, her system was configured in a way that can only accurately be called "gross negligence" and a flagrant disregard for even the most minimal security standards.

3) She has never adequately responded to the pressing question: WHY would you set up a complete alternative channel of communication? And her motivation in this regard MATTERS, because IF her motivation was to bypass FIOA, then her actions were criminal in that respect alone, and the State Department website itself specifies minimum prison times for various violations of FIOA.

4) Her behavior regarding the contents of the server would likely stand in an unbiased court of law as evidence that her motivation WAS to bypass FIOA, as her activities since the story broke have been one long chain of denials, obfuscations, and then limited compliance with entirely legitimate requests for access to her server. ONLY after she had wiped the system did she finally release it for forensic analysis. The case that she intended to violate FIOA is actually very strong.

5) Her behavior on a point by point basis is literally astounding and cannot be cast off as "She was dumb about this," as so many try to argue, and as she herself is now trying to float. If she was THAT dumb, then she should have the good sense enough to at least recognize that she has NO business being Commander in Chief. No, "mistakes were made" is beyond LAME in this context. There is a PATTERN of behavior here, and ALL of it points to a studied intention to limit or entirely deny ANY and ALL oversight of her communications while SecState.

6) Specifically, her "release" of "relevant" emails was an absurd joke that any of us in the national-class IT community immediately recognized as such. Her unilateral decision of what "search parameters" would "find" all and only "relevant" emails was itself arrogant and unconscionable in the extreme, and her approach was literally laughable.

7) She SHOULD have immediately turned over the server. But instead she wiped it first, after spending months doing everything behind the scenes possible to ensure that as little as possible could be recovered. The act of wiping the server was itself a violation of FIOA and other federal laws pertaining to the destruction of material evidence in the face of a possible criminal investigation. People go to prison MERELY for shredding documents or wiping servers WELL in advance of an investigation that they think MIGHT be forthcoming.

Her behavior from beginning to end is essentially this:

* I don't answer to ANYBODY about my communications, so I intend to have FULL and complete control over the venue in which my communications originate.

* That means that I will not use the provided State Department channel at all, despite the fact that I demand that all my underlings MUST not do anything like the very thing I am setting out to do.

* I know nothing about setting up such a system, but that's okay because who gives a rat's gluteus maximus muscles about security? I'm only SecState, not President as I should already have been, so national security be screwed.

* Oh, I'm getting a bit of push-back about the security settings of my system. "Cert?" What's a "cert?" Well, okay, I'll hire somebody to at least fix that piddling issue, whatever that is.

* Oh, crap! The cat's out of the bag. Denial mode. Obfuscation mode. They'll NEVER sort all this out nor be able to even prioritize what the real issues are.

* Okay, here are the inevitable demands for me to produce the records of what I've been doing on that machine. No problem. I can kick that can down the road a long way while strategizing about how to ultimately "comply." No WAY is anybody going to actually get the totality of what I've been doing here.

* Okay, the demands are becoming pretty pressing now, and the scandal is actually starting to hurt. Time to "comply" a bit. Now, let's see.... I could just hand over the whole box. That would be the obvious and completely forthright thing to do, and that approach would more than ANYTHING indicate that I did intend all along to comply with FIOA. That's why I'm simply NOT going to do that! Instead, I will just "parse out" my emails myself and ensure that I ALONE control what I SAY was "relevant" and what wasn't. I am in control here, not the law, damnit!


* "Fine! There you go! I've handed you over 30,000 emails that you wanted." Of course, the goofs still want the box, but that's never gonna happen. They can just chew on my search algorithm for awhile.

* Dang! This mess just won't go away! Time to play the "right-wing conspiracy theory" card. That always gets the pundits falling all over themselves to avoid that charge at all costs.

* Dang! Double-dang! It still just won't go away! Okay, clearly I'm gonna have to hand over the server at some point. That's bad news, so how to fix it?

* Right! I'll WIPE the thing first, and then I'll hand it over. My buds in Denver can handle that for me. DoD-grade wipe, guys! Got it?

* Now JOKE about the whole thing! LOTS of people LIKE me, so I'll continue the "tempest in a teapot" motif, while trying to pretend that I'm so above it all.

* Crap! Lameos found my jokes in bad taste. What the hell? It's not like this is national security or something!

* FBI investigation? WTF? Who do these people think they are? I GAVE 'em the emails (that I wanted 'em to see), and I GAVE them my (wiped) server. What more could they possibly want? I've been COMPLETELY cooperative! Why does anybody question that?


On and on....

I repeat, if any of US had this same pattern of behavior regarding classified information, we would ALREADY be in prison.

And I am not ever scratching the SURFACE of the IT side of this debacle. Her negligence of then intentional refusal to cooperate (just from an IT perspective) is so GROSS and flagrant that it is mind-boggling to me that she is not ALREADY indicted on these issues alone. And it is clear to any unbiased mind that her behavior was about as ANTI-cooperative and ANTI-forthcoming as it could possibly be.

If she has demonstrated NOTHING else through this incident, she has demonstrated that she is UTTERLY unfit technically-speaking, UTTERLY lacks the judgment, and holds herself so UTTERLY above accountability to we the people that she has NO business being in the WH.

Seriously, my company takes security SO seriously on SO many different levels that there is exactly ZERO comparison between our systems (that protect only FERPA-protected data) and her system that housed and served matters of national security. Her negligence alone in this regard was reckless and arguably criminal. And that's before we even get to talking about her obfuscation and willful destruction of evidence!

Look, we can debate any point ad nauseum. People that are determined to give the Hillabeast a pass WILL NOT be swayed. But I am NOT partisan in the slightest, and there is SO much more I could say. But people will already be complaining about the length of this post.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 27, 2015 - 11:12pm PT
I'll simplify this all for you....

Everybody is debating entirely the wrong issues. This is NOT about whether or not there were classified emails, when the contents were or were not actually classified, what percentage of total emails were classified and when, or how many other people have committed occasional "mistakes" regarding classified material. The KEY points of this scandal are NOT about the CONTENTS of this or that email!

There are two key points here:

1) Did she or did she not violate the FIOA?

2) Did she or did she not intentionally destroy material evidence pending an even POSSIBLE criminal investigation?

The answer to (1) is quite clearly YES, as her entire pattern of behavior from beginning to end has been to AVOID being forthcoming. Had she INSTANTLY turned over the server for analysis, point (1) goes completely away, and then people can debate the red-herring points 'till the cows come home.

The answer to (2) is obviously YES. I find it hard to imagine how any reasonable mind can think otherwise.

Both (1) and (2) are felonies, completely apart from the red-herring about whether or not she put national security at risk. Both (1) and (2) carry mandatory prison sentences.

This matter is NOT about what most people are harping on. The "tempest in a teapot" argument ONLY gets to apply AFTER she has successfully defended herself from (1) and (2), and she has not even BEGUN to indicate what sort of defense might possibly work in the face of these.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 27, 2015 - 11:18pm PT
If what Hillary Clinton did with her emails - and her stonewalling Congressional investigations, is legal and not subject to punishment, please explain that to, say, General Patraeus, Scooter Libby, the Watergate defendants, or any number of others prosecuted for obstruction of justice or contempt of Congress, or violation of laws affecting classified material. I still think she is a better choice than certain Democrats or Republicans who are actually running, but that's an indictment to how low portions of the electorate would stoop. In an ideal world, she would be campaigning from a prison cell, and the "journalists" who let her slide would be out of a job.

John
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 27, 2015 - 11:40pm PT
mb, you spend waaaaaay too much time writing these posts.

edit:

'FOIA'
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 27, 2015 - 11:42pm PT
"...but that's an indictment to how low portions of the electorate would stoop. "

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2669435/Ready-for-Donald
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:15am PT
LOL... actually I don't put much time into them at all, which explains the "unedited" nature of mini-dyslexic glitches like "FIOA" instead of "FOIA".

hehe
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:46am PT
I'll make it short...you have not found any "there" in anything related to this e-mail issue, only a hint or suspicion. Your attempting to conflate this into every corner of her character is laughable. She's withstood years of this kind of hyper-scrutiny, a long list of phony "gates" stirred up by conservative media and the billionaires that finance them - all of it for one purpose: hand the White House to a conservative Republican that will do their bidding. She's guilty of being insular, over-stage managed and a bit tone deaf, sure, but nothing remotely illegal.

Your Candidate of Purity does not exist.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Aug 28, 2015 - 07:21am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

I love it!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 07:27am PT
If what Hillary Clinton did with her emails - and her stonewalling Congressional investigations, is legal and not subject to punishment, please explain that to, say, General Patraeus, Scooter Libby, the Watergate defendants, or any number of others prosecuted for obstruction of justice or contempt of Congress, or violation of laws affecting classified material. I still think she is a better choice than certain Democrats or Republicans who are actually running, but that's an indictment to how low portions of the electorate would stoop. In an ideal world, she would be campaigning from a prison cell, and the "journalists" who let her slide would be out of a job.


Wrong John...prove she did anything illegal.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 28, 2015 - 08:49am PT
Nicely summarized, crankster.
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Aug 28, 2015 - 09:02am PT
Everybody is debating entirely the wrong issues.

That's been happening in our elections for quite some time now. Nothing new there.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 28, 2015 - 09:35am PT
Your Candidate of Purity does not exist.

You keep saying that, and I keep responding: "I'm not looking for 'purity.' I'm looking for basic integrity and accountability."

The Hillabeast did everything in her power to bypass accountability, and her wiping of the server before handing it over is going to be a bigger and bigger problem for her.

If the Demoncrats had ANY sense, they'd urge Biden to run, who polls much higher against all Rebumblecons than does the Hillabeast. I believe that a Biden run virtually assures the Demoncrats of another four years in the WH. With the Hillabeast, wow, literally anything could happen, and she has an absolutely astounding capacity to shoot out her own tires before the wheels come off of her bus.

The Donald? Buffoon through and through! A Buffoon vs. Hillabeast election would be a true exercise in plumbing the depths of the sickness of American politics.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 28, 2015 - 09:40am PT
I don't think Biden can save them.

President Obama said "People are looking for someone with that New Car smell". His own party, ignores him.

But I agree with the President. Someone, in the mold of Obama or Bill Clinton, young, talented, articulate could still win. If the Dems "stay the course" they are on, don't cry here, when there is an even more right wing SCOTUS.
10b4me

Social climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 09:52am PT
Do we really want another president who is in their seventies?
We had one once, back in the eighties, and we all know how that turned out.
Where are the fifty, and sixty year old demos, as Obama said, that offer a new car smell?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 09:55am PT
A Buffoon vs. Hillabeast election would be a true exercise in plumbing the depths of the sickness...

LOL!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 28, 2015 - 10:01am PT
10b, naps are under-rated, even in the White House.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 28, 2015 - 10:05am PT
Where are the fifty, and sixty year old demos, as Obama said, that offer a new car smell?


The Hillary supporters, strangled their WH bids, in their cribs.

Somewhere along the line, in both parties, what is considered the "Establishment", is going to get thrown overboard. The Republicans are lucky in this regard. They're getting at it right now.


ETA: The Governor of my State, Andrew Cuomo, is an example. He would make a fine President. He's got this state running nicely.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 28, 2015 - 10:28am PT
"Americans want change. They don't know what sort of change they want. They just want it to be different than it was."

The Donald is an unintended creation of Bonehead and Turtleneck.

There have been two successive congressional elections demanding a move away from BHO's policies and the Repub establishment rolled over and played dead.

Now the villagers are pissed!


madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 28, 2015 - 10:30am PT
Conjecture.

Whaaatttt???

The FBI has stated that the system was "deleted," although that's a vague term in IT parlance. It appears that FBI analysts are going to be able to recover some or all of the data that used to be there (data that was intentionally "deleted"). But the machine the FBI got had been "deleted," and that's now not open to debate.

No conjecture there.
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Aug 28, 2015 - 10:32am PT
Saw a "TRUMP/NUGENT" bumpersticker today...

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 28, 2015 - 10:36am PT
Mr E, Ted has taken up bridge.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 10:38am PT
CLINTON BODY COUNT

If it's posted on the Internet, it must be true.
Norton

Social climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 10:51am PT
blah blah

fact: Hillary Clinton right now, a year away from the nomination, has 20% of the necessary
committed delegates to secure the Democratic nomination for President

fact: the Republican base is increasingly likely to make The Donald the Repub nominee

so, Clinton versus Trump as this point

How is the Donald doing wooing the fastest growing demographic, Hispanics? Terrible

how is he doing with women? with what he has said about them are you kidding?

Someone explain how Donald Trump gets to the 270 Electoral Votes to become President?

keeping in mind that Republicans have lost the popular majority vote in 4 of the last 5 Presidential elections, or is it 5 of 6......

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 28, 2015 - 11:05am PT
"There have been two successive congressional elections demanding a move away from BHO's policies and the Repub establishment rolled over and played dead. "


That easily-provable untruth demonstrates just how far to the idealistic, out-of-touch with reality Right that you live, TGT.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 11:12am PT
"Someone explain how Donald Trump gets to the 270 Electoral Votes to become President?"

Good point.

Keep the charge, Norton!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 28, 2015 - 11:30am PT
Donald's base of support isn't traditional or tea party Repubs. More "Regan Democrats" than anything. The more politically astute see right thru him.

Don't underestimate how much support he'll get from the black community either.

The only candidate celebrated in rap lyrics.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 11:36am PT
They don't have to recover the server nor even the bulk of its data. We're talking emails here and there are electronic footprints of them (the emails ) on servers all over the world. Just because she had the server wiped by someone who actually knew how to wipe it, doesn't mean those emails are gone.

Like I said way long ago, the NSA has it all.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 28, 2015 - 11:44am PT
"Just because she had the server wiped by someone who actually knew how to wipe it, doesn't mean those emails are gone."


BBBBBEEEEEENNNNNNGGGGGGHHHHHHAAAAAAAZZZZZIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11169
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 11:46am PT
Ha, the same Reagan Democrats that this map shows
Eisenhower 1952
Yes

WHEN THE SOUTHERN RACISTS WERE DEMOCRATS
Now we call them the Tea Party, and they are spreading the hate

TGT does just not understand simple history I guess
He just refuses to face the fact that the Dems used to be the Right Wingers, and then they changed.
Why? because he wants to blame racism and slavery on Liberals, the very opposite of what happened, Lincoln and Teddy were Liberals, Not Conservatives.
The Conservatives fought to keep slavery, to stop women from voting, to stop vacation time, a 40 hour week blah blah

Trump reminds me of your typical fascist dictator, he spews hate, gets the brown shirts to jump on the band wagon, then they go around like thugs bashing in the heads of the blame group (illegals) and we fall under militaristic regime of Right Wing Nationalism (kind of like Hitler)
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Aug 28, 2015 - 11:52am PT
Mr E, Ted has taken up bridge.

After the video posted above, I am thinking "TRUMP/COULTER" would be better entertainment anyway...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:01pm PT
her wiping
mb, you're claiming you have knowledge that Hillary Clinton personally did the "wiping" of her e-mail server, or ordered a subordinate to do it. Please provide evidence. Absent that, I'll see you over on the Hillary thread and try to keep this one focused on The Donald.

Norton, concise and accurate, as usual.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:15pm PT
Conjecture.

No conjecture there. The wiping of the server and the withholding of evidence are proven fact. The only issue is whether what was withheld had any importance. If Nixon had erased his tapes, a Nixon supporter could have said the same thing about Watergate.

Neither has Hillary "survived" any particular scrutiny. Her sychophants in the media have hidden her troubles at every opportunity, including that afforded by Trump's antics. Her manipulation and "sanitizing" of data repsonsive to inquiries dates back at least to the time the missing Rose Law Firm billing records turned up in her office. Her manipulation of, and restrictions on, the press are already apparent.

I'm not saying any of this "smoke" disqualifies her, but her opponents will make that smoke look like it's coming from something much bigger than the Rough or Rim Fires, and her obfuscation, stonewalling and diversion won't make them go away when she's the nominee. Dispelling the "conjectures" about her actions will require that she demonstrate a tranparency to which, to date, she has proven incapable.

But all of that is merely my conjecture. The events will play out soon enough. In the meantime, her supporters will enjoy Trump's outrages just as much as Republicans will disdain them.

John
Norton

Social climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:22pm PT
But all of that is merely my conjecture. The events will play out soon enough. In the meantime, her supporters will enjoy Trump's outrages just as much as Republicans will disdain them.

John

good conjecture John, can't disagree with anything you said

except that, are not the 35% who support Trump right now also "Republicans"?

that group does not appear to be disdaining Trump?

John, would you agree that Trump really does stand the best chance of being the Repub nominee and if not who do you then see?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:26pm PT
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/08/27/these-16-quotes-explain-why-trump-will-be-the-republican-candidate-images/


A disgusting little man.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:30pm PT
Norton, I do not think Trump has the best chance of being the Republican nominee, unless more people like you choose to vote in Republican primaries. Kris Solem outlines the reasons why about 100 posts ago.

Ben Carson comes the closest to my views, but I don't see how someone who never held elective office qualifies for President unless he or she ran a governmental operation the size of, say, D-Day. I like John Kasich the best, although the Tea Partiers will probably doom his candidacy. I like Marco Rubio, too, except for his extreme pandering on the abortion issue, but his views have no chance of becoming law and, after all, no one is perfect. If Jeb Bush had a different last name, he would be a good choice, too, but that last name makes him a poor choice now.

John
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:35pm PT
Kasich is intriguing, though waaaaay too moderate, and not nearly EXTREME enough for the GOP Establishment.

He should go Third Party, and get something started for America.
Norton

Social climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:36pm PT
I like John Kasich the best, although the Tea Partiers will probably doom his candidacy

I do too, a lot in fact!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:40pm PT
http://www.occupydemocrats.com/experts-planned-parenthood-smear-videos-were-heavily-edited-have-no-value/


Another republican bullshit investigation that proves nothing.


Benghazi, planned parenthood, Obamacare, Hillary's email, Acorn, Fast and Furious, Kenneth Starr and list goes on.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:43pm PT
Sadly, that sh#t works. See cosmics tinfoil hat cut and paste post on the previous page regarding deaths associated with Clinton.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:48pm PT
What? they are all still alive and hiding somewhere?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:49pm PT
JL...http://www.salon.com/2002/03/13/ray_3/


70 million down the toilet.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 28, 2015 - 12:53pm PT
TGT will have no problem with that.

Taxpayer dollars spent on programs he doesn't like = BAD

Millions of taxpayer dollars for the purposes of Republican Obstructionism = GOOD

See how that works?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:09pm PT
http://www.politicususa.com/2014/05/02/pay-back-house-republicans-owe-taxpayers-14-million-benghazi-investigations.html
dirtbag

climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:10pm PT



TGT

Social climber
So Cal

Aug 28, 2015 - 12:48pm PT
What? they are all still alive and hiding somewhere?

Another sap...
Norton

Social climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:11pm PT
since this thread is about Donald, he picks up another endorsement

To no one’s surprise, America’s most popular neo-Nazi website, the Daily Stormer, has officially announced its support for Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election. Predictably, the endorsement praised the numerous racist statements in Trump’s announcement video, especially his “willingness to call [Mexicans] out as criminal rapists, murderers, and drug dealers.”

The typical xenophobic right-wing jargon about China and Mexico “stealing our jobs” also features prominently in the endorsement, as Trump has emphasized this theme heavily. In reality, of course, immigrants have lower rates of crime and drug-use than native-born whites and any “job-stealing” at the hands of China, Mexico, or elsewhere is merely the result of the free-market capitalist competition that conservatives supposedly support.
OD
dirtbag

climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
David Duke endorsed him too.

The problem with dog whistling is that sooner or later, the dogs will join you.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:15pm PT
"In 1985, while Iran and Iraq were at war, Iran made a secret request to buy weapons from the United States. McFarlane sought Reagan's approval, in spite of the embargo against selling arms to Iran. McFarlane explained that the sale of arms would not only improve U.S. relations with Iran, but might in turn lead to improved relations with Lebanon, increasing U.S. influence in the troubled Middle East. Reagan was driven by a different obsession. He had become frustrated at his inability to secure the release of the seven American hostages being held by Iranian terrorists in Lebanon. As president, Reagan felt that "he had the duty to bring those Americans home," and he convinced himself that he was not negotiating with terrorists. While shipping arms to Iran violated the embargo, dealing with terrorists violated Reagan's campaign promise never to do so. Reagan had always been admired for his honesty.

Reagan during the Iran-Contra Affair
Corbis
Reagan during the Iran-Contra Affair
The arms-for-hostages proposal divided the administration. Longtime policy adversaries Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger and Secretary of State George Shultz opposed the deal, but Reagan, McFarlane and CIA director William Casey supported it. With the backing of the president, the plan progressed. By the time the sales were discovered, more than 1,500 missiles had been shipped to Iran. Three hostages had been released, only to be replaced with three more, in what Secretary of State George Shultz called "a hostage bazaar."

When the Lebanese newspaper "Al-Shiraa" printed an exposé on the clandestine activities in November 1986, Reagan went on television and vehemently denied that any such operation had occurred. He retracted the statement a week later, insisting that the sale of weapons had not been an arms-for-hostages deal. Despite the fact that Reagan defended the actions by virtue of their good intentions, his honesty was doubted. Polls showed that only 14 percent of Americans believed the president when he said he had not traded arms for hostages.

While probing the question of the arms-for-hostages deal, Attorney General Edwin Meese discovered that only $12 million of the $30 million the Iranians reportedly paid had reached government coffers. Then-unknown Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North of the National Security Council explained the discrepancy: he had been diverting funds from the arms sales to the Contras, with the full knowledge of National Security Adviser Admiral John Poindexter and with the unspoken blessing, he assumed, of President Reagan.

Poindexter resigned, and North was fired, but Iran-Contra was far from over. The press hounded the president: Did he know about these illegal activities, and if not, how could something of this magnitude occur without his knowledge? In an investigation by the Reagan-appointed Tower Commission, it was determined that, as president, Reagan's disengagement from the management of his White House had created conditions which made possible the diversion of funds to the Contras. But there was no evidence linking Reagan to the diversion."
Norton

Social climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:25pm PT

I will never understand why Reagan is considered by Republicans such a great President

in addition to him flat out lying about Iran Contra..

the economy went into Recession and the national debt was doubled under his watch

what is it exactly that made him so great in their eyes, because he was a Republican?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
Reagan was the devil...http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/17/157477/-List-of-Reagan-administration-convictions#


But king to republican. http://listverse.com/2015/01/15/10-reprehensible-crimes-of-ronald-reagan/
dirtbag

climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:30pm PT
Benghazi!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:30pm PT
I will never understand why Reagan is considered by Republicans such a great President

I'm with you. Same with both Bushes. The damage the latest Bush did (and that lying, human wasteland, Cheney) is inestimable, and he definitely crossed a Rubicon with our freedoms. Now the continuous surveillance state is just par for the course, and nobody (not even the Demoncrats) want to try to get that horse back into the barn!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
Reagan the devil...Reagan ended his 1988 farewell speech with the memorable line, "man is not free unless government is limited." The line is still a rallying cry for the right wing, but the speech came at the end of a long period of government expansion. Under Reagan, the federal workforce increased by about 324,000 to almost 5.3 million people. (The new hires weren't just soldiers to fight the communists, either: uniformed military personnel only accounted for 26 percent of the increase.) In 2012, the federal government employed almost a million fewer people than it did in the last year of Reagan's presidency.


Republicans vote on emotional issues, abortion, race/immigration, religion, they are running out of lies. It is just a matter of time.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:44pm PT
JL...http://www.salon.com/2002/03/13/ray_3/


70 million down the toilet.

Except that it was incontrovertible that Bill Clinton committed perjury, and was disbarred for doing so. But this thread is about Trump, who many Republicans consider a distraction planted by Hillary (really!).

Republicans and populists don't mix well. The demagogic tendencies of populism usually run afoul of Republican aims, and Trump is no exception. To the extent that he stands for anything except egomaniacal nihlism, it seems to be that our problems can all be solved if we simply deport 11,000,000 human beings, and maybe their American citizen relatives. Oh, and anyone who asks him a hard question is a **&#$$! A pox on him and his movement.

John
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:45pm PT
Not all of them do, Bob....some fall in line with Liberals when it comes to issues such as gay marriage, abortion/women's rights, religion, etc., but vote Republican primarily for (supposed) economic, defense, and integrity reasons.

Though Repubs fail miserably in those departments, that doesn't seem to matter, and they will still hold up St. Reagan as their patron saint, vote GWB into office twice, then remain Republican even after he completely destroys the economy, and his administration lies through their teeth to start a needless war.

Will somebody....preferably a true, articulate Republican...please explain why you continue to vote that way, apparently ignoring all forms of historic reality?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 01:58pm PT
JL...do you admit it was nothing more than witch hunt?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
BC lost his law license and paid a hefty fine, so at least one federal judge found something there.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:08pm PT
The wiping of the server and the withholding of evidence are proven fact.

Ought to be pretty easy then to post the proof. Did it appear in a refereed journal?

QED
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:12pm PT
JL...do you admit it was nothing more than witch hunt?

It was not, Bob. There was demonstrated illegality that, under applicable law at the time, required the appointment of a special prosecutor. Starr did what he was required to do. The stonewalling from both Hillary and the current administration may well cost more in taxpayer funds and national distraction than anything Starr's investigation cost, but then, how do you measure national distraction?

I propose that we create a unit of national distraction. Consistent with naming of other units of measurement, particularly those associated with physics and electronics (e.g. the volt, hertz, angstrom, etc.) we specify a unit of distraction named a trump. One trump is equal to the amount of news coverage in the mainstream media caused by one outrageous sentence spoken by Donald Trump.

Using that unit of measure, the statements of John Kasich or Jim Webb rate zero (0) trumps. Those of Hillary Clinton or Ted Cruz rate about 0.5 trumps (their opponents will mention them, but their statements don't have the staying power of The Donald's). Those of Joe Biden are worth at least two trumps, because it will take that long to figure out what he meant to say.

John
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:17pm PT
Not buying it JL...http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-clintonstarr.html
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:18pm PT
The Hispanic vote does not carry that much weight.

Jeb Bush-

"I'm married to a mexican, I speak spanish"

Whew! Talk about the upper hand...

Anger Babies!!!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:23pm PT
JL wrote: The stonewalling from both Hillary and the current administration may well cost more in taxpayer funds and national distraction than anything Starr's investigation cost, but then, how do you measure national distraction?


We can measure this...https://www.nationalpriorities.org/campaigns/cost-war-iraq/?gclid=CjwKEAjwjYCvBRC99sSm_frioAwSJACrKuPClBhInfdYF_7b87NIq5lwELBqRQI8kZ1sebJqBwS0thoC9tHw_wcB
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:25pm PT
Jeb doesn't speak spanish..."In a recent Twitter storm, Trump retweeted followers who attacked Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly — who faced heated attacks from the Trump campaign for her role as a moderator in the opening GOP presidential debate — as a “bimbo” and went after Jeb Bush for knowing how to “speak Mexican.” - See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/donald-trump-trolls-jeb-bush-twitter-speaking-mexican#sthash.fwXxjCmp.dpuf"


He speaks Mexican!
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:38pm PT
...who many Republicans consider a distraction planted by Hillary (really!).

If you like conspiracy theories, it's not a bad one. Is Trump a Trojan Horse candidate? He'll continue to tear apart the political landscape for the Republican primaries until he falls out of the race. Then he goes third party, guaranteeing the election to the Democrats.

What does he want in return?
10b4me

Social climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:45pm PT
I will never understand why Reagan is considered by Republicans such a great President

I don't understand it either. I am going on sixty two, and Raygun, and bush have been the two worst presidents in my lifetime.

I think the conservatives see ronnie as a god because he "rescued" the hostages in Iran, he kicked ass in Granada, and Panama. Those battles were "close".

REmember what a disaster his secretary of interior was? James Watt was finally forced to resign.
Norton

Social climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 02:48pm PT
seriously,

why do people theorize that Donald will not win the Republican nomination?

think for a minute: the Republican primary voter, whom the convention nominees come
from, has proven over and over that they really do want a pure and extreme candidate

it is not about winning the Presidency to them, it is about being true to the white male
who best verbalizes what they are thinking

The Donald CAN go all the way to the nomination, and then Hillary will beat him in a popular and electoral vote landslide

dirtbag

climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 03:00pm PT
Norton, trump has a big fat mouth.

He has said many things that have obliterated lesser candidates' campaigns (Mexican undocumented workers are rapists; Megyn Kelly was on her period when she grilled him; Crapping on McCain's military service). "Surely, he will say something that will sink him," they think. But for whatever reason he is still at the top of the pile.

I think we will see a serious run at Trump once the field narrows and voters can focus on an alternative.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 03:06pm PT
Immigrants per-capitol commit less crimes.


Back to the old hate card for republicans, very little is based on facts.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 03:15pm PT
Why does Reagan still earn such respect?

Because they spend millions on the Reagan legacy Project.
The Project gives money and talking points to Fox News and Rush, and they prop him up like the Christ savior.
Right Wingers can't remember the facts, they react to emotions and talking points.
They are always advertising for it, "Give us money"


And the opposite effect is happening with the Clintons, millions spent to crush them,
They use the million cuts plan, just make up lies and misinformation or out of context quotes, spew it every where in the News, and then the idiots respond to it like it's a fact (e-mails, Benghazi).


IF anyone of these Republicans were investigated like the Democrats are, they would come out 1000 times worse, yet no one talks about that, they are in bed with every right wing big buck spender, that's a fact.
Jeb, Walker, W. Bush, Rove, and Huckabee all wiped clean their servers, right before any investigation was about to start.

The media is now owned by Right Wing CEOs, part of the Reagan legacy that will haunt us forever, we are now informed by Right Wing heretics that have poisoned the air waves.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 03:32pm PT
He had good looks, a warm personality, and a sunny demeanor.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 03:40pm PT
Donald likes Miley"In an interview with The New York Times, Cyrus says the 2016 presidential candidate took the time to personally compliment her work—as did Kanye West.

“I was in the studio with Kanye that night, and we watched it back and we didn’t say anything. He was like, ‘That was sick,’ whatever. We woke up the next day, and he was like, ‘Whoa.’ He called and said, ‘Turn on your TV,’” recalls Cyrus. “I was staying at the Trump Hotel and Donald Trump literally called and said, basically, ‘I know everyone’s talking about it, but I loved it.’ I had no idea anyone was talking about it yet.”
“Let me tell you something, Miss Cyrus,” Trump probably said. “I have a lot of respect for a woman who uses her tongue that liberally.”
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 03:44pm PT
Reagan was just an actor that played puppet to the Heritage Institute and every other far right wing group.
They played him to enact every right wing policy they could think of that trickled money upward.
He destroyed our Democracy and set up every bad thing we now have to endure.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 28, 2015 - 03:53pm PT
He destroyed our Democracy and set up every bad thing we now have to endure.

Hyperbole in the extreme.

And incorrect. Actually FDR did that.

Bwahahah
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
Reagan's legacy is our Supreme Court = Citizens United

So I stand.

and FDR, one of our Greatest President, saved our Democracy from a fascist takeover, and pulled us out of the depression caused by conservative policies and the robber barons

wrong again
Norton

Social climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 04:08pm PT
Actually FDR did that.

please elaborate

was it FDR's entry into WW2 that you now find so wrong?

or perhaps his creation of Social Security that pissed you off?

or perhaps his public works projects?

oh fill this thread with your powerful historically accurate intellect!
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 28, 2015 - 04:15pm PT
Anything-for- a-buck Bill WHILE Hillary was Sec State. Is it too late for Andrew Cuomo to get in?


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bill-clinton-sought-state-department-paid-speeches-related/story?id=33369277

While Hillary Clinton served as Secretary of State, Bill Clinton earned speaking fees around the globe totaling more than $48 million -- speeches that had to be vetted by the State Department to ensure there were no conflicts of interest with his wife's work as America's top diplomat. These newly revealed emails show speech requests that the State Department refused to approve.

The emails -- which have come to light because of a public records request by the conservative group Citizens United, which sued the State Department to get the documents -- show just how far Bill Clinton was willing to go to earn those lucrative fees -- seeking approval for appearances with ties to two of the most brutal countries in the world.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 04:23pm PT
Another way that Reagan destroyed our Democracy was by deregulating the Media, now it's all monopolized by Big Brother.

He made the news into Infotainment, and set up Roger Ails with Fox news, where it's legal to LIE ALL you want.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 04:25pm PT
Hey John, How much do the Bush's make in speaking fees???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
What, you don't care??
Why do you care about the Clinton's?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 28, 2015 - 04:27pm PT
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/dem-primaries/omalley-dnc-debbie-schultz-awkward-debates

This is going to be fun to watch melt down.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 28, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
oh fill this thread with your powerful historically accurate intellect!

You and yours can't handle the truth.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 04:30pm PT

.


TGT

Social climber
So Cal

Aug 28, 2015 - 04:27pm PT
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/dem-primaries/omalley-dnc-debbie-schultz-awkward-debates

This is going to be fun to watch melt down.

Meanwhile, your guys do every thing they can to piss off Hispanics. Lol...now that's fun!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 05:29pm PT
I would bet that Trump makes even more than the Clintons for speaking fees

He does his "Art of the Deal" presentations, where he tells us we have to lie and bully to get the best deal.

Yes, the Art of the Con, he has perfected it.

I can see it now
On Sale half price!! Trump's new Book

"The Art of The Con"
How I conned a Nation of dupes to think I could be President
Trump
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 28, 2015 - 05:34pm PT
Neither has Hillary "survived" any particular scrutiny. Her sychophants in the media have hidden her troubles at every opportunity, including that afforded by Trump's antics. Her manipulation and "sanitizing" of data repsonsive to inquiries dates back at least to the time the missing Rose Law Firm billing records turned up in her office. Her manipulation of, and restrictions on, the press are already apparent

Utter nonsense. She has one of the worst relations with the press of any candidate. She's been the most analyzed, scrutinized, criticized and hounded political person in memory. And none of the false accusations added up to anything more than vapor. Nothing, dust. Zero. Just like this e-mail fake scandal will.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 05:39pm PT
Reagan the devil did pretty http://articles.latimes.com/1990-03-04/magazine/tm-2327_1_nancy-reagan-foundationgood on the speaking tour...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 05:41pm PT
"David Sherzer, a spokesman for the former president, said that since Bush left office he has delivered nearly 140 paid talks, at home and abroad. Those speeches have earned Bush about $15 million, following in the golden path blazed by his predecessor, Bill Clinton."


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/05/20/george-w-bushs-15-million-speech-payday.html




madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 28, 2015 - 05:52pm PT
Crankster's determined to have the last word on the email scandal, so I guess what he says must be true....

I guess, him being a lawyer, IT professional, and all.

;-)

He insists it's fake, so it must be fake. Nothing more to see here.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 28, 2015 - 05:56pm PT
mb, with you here doubt I'll have the last word. You keep getting asked to provide proof regarding any of your accusations and all you come up with are theories, allegations.

I'll apologize if any indictment comes her way. And you'll do the same when they don't, right?
Rose Law Firm...wasn't that like 25 years ago? You guys never give up. Whitewater, meh.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:07pm PT


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:09pm PT
For an explanation of some of the "Christian" revisionist perspective on reality...

we can trace a lot the Modern Right Wing Corruption of Christianity to this right wing criminal enterprise, in the name of Jebus of course


Meet the Tea Party’s evangelical quack: David Barton is Glenn Beck’s favorite “historian”

David Barton has shaped the curriculum of Christian schools and home schoolers. His "history" is a dangerous joke
Julie Ingersoll

http://www.salon.com/2015/08/23/meet_the_tea_partys_evangelical_quack_david_barton_is_glenn_becks_favorite_historian/
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:09pm PT
Madbolter...http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/President-Barack-Obama-Presidents/2014/08/08/id/587737/


"The Siena College Research Institute has asked 238 presidential scholars to rank the presidents five times since 1982. The most recent poll showed Franklin Roosevelt on top as their favorite.

A report from the National Constitution Center in February of this year also ranked Roosevelt as the best president of the 20th century and fourth best overall behind Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Lincoln."

He is in some pretty good company.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:13pm PT
Apparently the outcome is this

Liberal President and Congress = prosperity and good times

Conservative/Right Wing President and Congress = many blood baths and economic disaster,
but the rich, Corps, special interests and well connected make out big time
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:13pm PT
FDR...my man.

http://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security-keeps-22-million-americans-out-of-poverty-a-state-by-state-analysis
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:14pm PT
You keep asking for "proof" because you know that's an impossible standard that not even criminal courts require. Then you claim "victory" because I can't rise to such an impossible standard. It's childish, really.

This whole thing is a matter of interpretation, and you know it. You also know (or you should) that criminal courts engage heavily in interpretation. Lawyers rely upon interpreting events and behaviors to show intent and thereby "speculate" about "what really happened."

The two pressing facts in the case, which are indeed objective facts are:

1) She set up an utterly insecure alternative channel of email communication, has never even come close to explaining why, and then refused to comply with legitimate congressional and the FBI requests to examine the server and its contents. The fact that it came out early on that the server was entirely insecure made such requests pressing and transcending merely requesting "the emails." Thus, her "release" of (her unilaterally-decided subset of) emails could not in principle lay the matter to rest as she hoped it would.

2) She refused for months to comply until pressure became overwhelming, at which point she "deleted" the data on the server and then handed it over.

Point (2) is problematical enough. If you or I got wind that the FBI was about to come confiscate one of our computers because we were suspected of having kiddie-porn on it, and we then preemptively "deleted" the entire contents of the machine just before they arrived to take it, that act alone would count as criminal in its own right. We could be charged with obstruction (as a minimum) even if no kiddie-porn conviction could ever emerge from the (then) lack of data.

Point (2) is not over yet, despite your endless insistence that there's nothing to see here. Eventually somebody with a brain and the power to pursue (2) is going to recognize the implications.

And she should already be in court defending her motivations under an accusation of flagrant violation of the FOIA. Again, her pattern of behavior is most obviously interpreted that way.

So, quit claiming "victory" because there is no "proof." That's petty, and you should know that that is not how deals like this work.

The investigation just keeps churning along. This isn't over yet, and your wishful thinking doesn't change the facts. The devil's in the interpretations, and her endless stonewalling, culminating in her turning over a "deleted" server, scream: Obstruction of justice.

So, here's the deal now. I'm done debating this with you. You WILL have the last word, so I'll just say that convictions don't hang on "proof;" they hang on interpretations. Now, go ahead and have your last word that "settles" the matter once and for all (until indictments are finally handed down).
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
In 1974 Donald Trump became president of his father’s organization. During the 15 years following his ascension, he expanded and innovated the corporation, buying and branding buildings, golf courses, hotels, casinos, and other recreational facilities. In 1980 he established The Trump Organization to oversee all of his real estate operations.

Trump eventually found himself in serious financial trouble. In 1990, due to excessive leveraging, The Trump Organization revealed that it was $5 billion in debt ($8.8 billion by some estimates), with $1 billion personally guaranteed by Trump himself. The survival of the company was made possible only by a bailout pact agreed upon in August of that same year by some 70 banks, allowing Trump to defer on nearly $1 billion in debt, as well as to take out second and third mortgages on almost all of his properties. If it were not for the collective effort of all banks and parties involved in that 1990 deal, Trump’s business would have gone bankrupt and failed.

...

From the moment of his birth, Trump was set up for success. The large inheritance left to him by his father, coupled with the contributions and the protections of society and the US government made his ascension to the Forbes 400 list almost inevitable. Nevertheless, Trump fails to recognize this phenomenon and continues to express his belief that he did it alone.



http://www.alternet.org/story/156234/exposing_how_donald_trump_really_made_his_fortune%3A_inheritance_from_dad_and_the_government's_protection_mostly_did_the_trick
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:18pm PT
FDR...nailing the republicans 80 years ago.

"They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.

Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred.

I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master."

http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/od2ndst.html

He kicked their asses.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:19pm PT
Hillary did nothing criminally wrong, and there was no wrong doing
the whole thing is a farce, just another right wing witch hunt to crush her.

Yet, the MD disagrees so much that he would write 1000s of words about How Right He is.

So go on MB, your campaign against Hillary is very enlightening,
it shows how in bed you are with the right wing disinformation "State" Media.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:20pm PT
you'll do the same when they don't, right?

Again, you play with a standard you know isn't legit. Most criminals are not caught, the ones that are often if not usually beat the rap, and none of that means that there was not guilt aplenty!

When OJ beat the rap, should I have apologized for being among the 95% of white America that started out believing he was innocent, then was convinced by the trial that he was guilty, and that I STILL believe he was guilty?

Not a chance. There's already enough public info out there about the Hillabeast's behavior to legitimately interpret it as an intentional violation of the FOIA and as then ongoing obstruction of justice.

None of us could get away with the games she's playing.

So, that's why you shouldn't hold me to an apology. Oh, btw, when Nixon was pardoned, did that mean he was not guilty? Ahhh... the games that are playing in high places! Too rarefied air up there for us to breathe!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:24pm PT
The American fascist would prefer not to use violence. His method is to poison the channels of public information. With a fascist the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money or more power.

http://newdeal.feri.org/wallace/haw23.htm
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:26pm PT
I'm getting confused here, is a "secure" server one which the NSA does or does not record the data from?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:29pm PT
it shows how in bed you are with the right wing disinformation State Media.

Wow....

If you can read me as "in bed with the right wing" ANYTHING, then you seriously can't read with comprehension or are brain damaged. I mean that. Something is VERY wrong with you, and it's no little thing.

I am starting to understand the fervor that will get the Hillabeast the nomination. What's sad about it is that there are SO much better alternatives!

Yeah, it's my "right wing" bedfellows that must be telling me to vote for Bernie if he were to become the Demoncrat candidate over, say, The Jebster or the Trumpster.

Look, while you're blindly accusing EVERYBODY that doesn't bow down and worship at the gnarly feet of the Hillabeast as being "in bed with the right wing," you are in your blindness unable to see that I'm as horrified by the Rebumblecons as the Demoncrats. This election is ALL about the PERSON rather than the party for me.

You insist on putting up the Hillabeast, and you've lost my vote. Same with the Rebumblecons putting up Jeb or Trump.

If YOU puke up the partisan kool aid for a moment and regain a sense of balance, you'd see that I'm the LAST person on this thread you should be accusing of being "in bed with the right wing."

But your blind defense of the Hillabeast at all costs keeps you from having a SHRED of objectivity. Really, seriously, it's sad.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:33pm PT
I have never endorsed Hillary
I'm just noting the lies you say are so important to use against Hillary

And yes, you come off as a total right winger no matter what you say

Libertarian = Far right winger that hates to call himself a Republican

If you are such a liberal, what of the ideas of Bernie that you love so much?
Higher taxes on the rich?
Free College?
School loans discharged???
Single Payer Health Care Insurance?
Take down the Banks? Too big to fail means too big to exist!
Stronger Federal Background checks for gun purchases?


I am 100% for these policies, Go Bernie
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:38pm PT
Libertarian = Far right winger that hates to call himself a Republican

Just stupid, plain and simple.

Like trying fruitlessly to argue with a Jehovah's Witness, I see my own stupidity in arguing with you.

In fact, the whole thread has gotten stupid. I've got better things to do.

Have fun boys. See ya cometh the election.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:44pm PT
If you are such a liberal, what of the ideas of Bernie that you love so much?
Higher taxes on the rich?
Free College?
School loans discharged???
Take down the Banks? Too big to fail means too big to exist!
Stronger Federal Background checks for gun purchases?

Ahh... another huge edit with no "edit" denotation. Typical.

I'm no liberal either. And, ironically, some of the above ideas are not "liberal."

Since you clearly don't understand either "classical liberalism" or the nothing-like-it current liberalism, and you can't be bothered to educate yourself, you are incapable of really hearing me, so you simply must try to cram me into boxes entirely of your own making in your own fantasy world.

When you were "Dr. F," several times I became convinced of the fruitlessness of arguing with you for this same reason. You "read" your opponent to suit your own sophistry. Again I've come to that conclusion.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 28, 2015 - 06:44pm PT
So MB gives up when confronted with facts

Yes, you like the classical Fake Right Wing Definition of "Classic Liberalism"
Yes I am aware of it, it's a farce

Yes, and I've been convinced about You just as long of the you have of me.
Very few here agree with you,

You are wrong about almost everything, yet convinced you are So Right about everything, it's like debating Pat Roberts or Dick Cheney, just too far gone to debate at an honest level of facts.

Denial of evolution, and most of the sciences??
That really hurts your argument, since your God seems to rule over us some how.


So none of the policies that Bernie are for (as I noted above) are Liberal??
What would free college for everone be called then?
Higher taxes on the rich??? Not a progressive liberal policy???
I don't get it..



But the insults, are they really necessary, you know you insult me in every post, it's Very childish, and indicative of a lost debate.
Norton

Social climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 07:34pm PT

arrogant, mouthy, ignorant horse's ass
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 28, 2015 - 07:37pm PT
mb, I don't get this "last word" stuff. I'm posting like everyone else here, and certainly less than you. The problem is you want to throw out innuendo as evidence of wrong doing and then go unchallenged.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 09:22pm PT
We all are related.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 28, 2015 - 09:27pm PT
The Big T!
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Aug 29, 2015 - 06:01am PT
mb, pay cf no attention. He has a closed unquestioning mind. He said something similar about me, and I've voted for Hillary, three times. Twice as Senator and once, in the 2008 Primary.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Aug 29, 2015 - 07:46am PT
He has a closed unquestioning mind.
Huh, I'm a liberal atheist skeptic scientist, the very definition of an open mind and questioning all.

I'm a member of the Skeptic Society, the center of enquiry for the questioning Mind

All I said to you John is that you are obsessed with the anti-Hillary Crusade perpetuated by the Right Wing Smear merchants.
Is that not true?

All I know about you is from what you post here, Pro Trump, pro smearing liberals and the Dems, so you sound like the typical Republican from what you post. How would I know how you voted.
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
Aug 29, 2015 - 09:03am PT
Madbolter - I like the way you think, but sorry having trouble following your thinking here.

Your political football interpretation of the two most pressing facts is that she legally set up an alternate email server, and then resisted the political witch hunt that ensued? And it's wrong for her or her followers to believe or espouse that interpretation?

And if the interpretive political witchhunt ends with a conviction, that's going to settle what? Which political side's interpretation was more influential in the witchhunt?

I'm just not following why given that you/we can't prove facts to ourselves or others, you're not just accepting that this is all just a political battle of who's interpretation can gain the most influence.

But you're a smart guy - maybe you do know that, and your arguments are just a disingenuous attempt to influence the interpretation. Ok, seems like a human enough way to believe and behave. Probably we have more in common with each other and our politicians than we're willing to admit to ourselves.
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Aug 29, 2015 - 09:38am PT
Hillabeast is wrong in so many ways.

So is the Don.

If our sh#t was hitting the fan, I would rather have the Don.

Bernie? Please, he is gunning for my generation and the next, the lazy "I deserve the same as the next guy, free college azzwhipes"


Shudder

Now, Jerry Brown....LOL Tank it like it's cali!

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 29, 2015 - 09:38am PT
Once she received the first classified Email and did not immediately report it she was in violation of the espionage act.

Petraus lost his job and paid a hefty fine for far less.

She's the only witch and no need to hunt.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 29, 2015 - 12:30pm PT
I'm also concerned about the missing emails...something like that could lead to a serious security breach and result in another 9/11..
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 29, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
Given Huma's family connections every Jihadi has what was of interest.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2556
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 29, 2015 - 01:15pm PT
^^It is coming down to the wire. Let's get that server un-wiped or at least ask the NSA to send the emails to Issa.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 29, 2015 - 01:45pm PT
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 29, 2015 - 03:15pm PT
for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States

Whoever, for the purpose aforesaid, and with like intent or reason to believe, copies, takes, makes, or obtains, or attempts to copy, take, make, or obtain, any sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, document, writing, or note of anything connected with the national defense; or

Whoever, for the purpose aforesaid, receives or obtains or agrees or attempts to receive or obtain from any person, or from any source whatever

willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it on demand to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it

willfully communicates

through gross negligence permits
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 29, 2015 - 03:45pm PT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-schweitzer/selective-outrage-hypocri_b_8056324.html



Nails the republicans right on the head.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 29, 2015 - 04:10pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Aug 29, 2015 - 05:48pm PT
10b4me

Social climber
Aug 29, 2015 - 05:54pm PT
One thing I like about Trump is he is not PC.
PC is bullsh#t.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Aug 29, 2015 - 06:03pm PT
Trump has no manners.
He also has no respect for most but seems to comand it from everyone.

PC correct or not, he's an ass.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 29, 2015 - 06:18pm PT
Carson hates gay people.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 29, 2015 - 06:27pm PT
Well, That will certainly win the vote of Christian Conservatives!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 29, 2015 - 06:32pm PT
So let's see,

Carson rails against public assistance, but was a benefit of it in almost every way from housing assistance to public schools to food stamps to free medical stuff to college grants.

He compares gay marriage to bestiality and pedophilia.

He rails against Planned Parenthood, despite having performed research on fetal tissue himself in the 90s.

Yep, sounds like a perfect GOP candidate - hate mongering hypocritical clown. He'll fit right in the with the Herman Cains, Michelle Bachmans, Rick Santorums, AquadBUddha Pauls, and the rest of their nutcase clowncar calvacade.
Blissab

Trad climber
Westhampton, MA
Aug 29, 2015 - 06:46pm PT
If The Donald is elected president, the wall between Mexico and the US won't be the only wall constructed during the Trump presidency.

Canada will also build a wall along its entire border, just to keep out the mass migration of Americans trying to flee Trump insanity.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 29, 2015 - 06:46pm PT
"Carson rails against public assistance, but was a benefit of it in almost every way from housing assistance to public schools to food stamps to free medical stuff to college grants."


That is funny.

Just like Hillary Clinton coming out against abuse of women, domestic violence, and rape.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 29, 2015 - 07:12pm PT
You stoopid Americans don't have anyone to lead you worth the sh!t.

Shut yer trap and hand me the rack, I'll lead it ya fukin pussy.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 29, 2015 - 07:23pm PT
Why denigrate corn.....wonderful crop, going all the way back to the Anasazi. I get it.....pigs absolutely love corn.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 29, 2015 - 07:27pm PT
Jim, maybe this is better? I mean butter.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Aug 29, 2015 - 07:37pm PT
So funny to see these so called christians wanting to vote for these hateful non christians.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 29, 2015 - 09:05pm PT
Ben Carsons Health savings account , his answer to the ACA , won't work..But that doesn't matter because he's a Dr. and he's smarter than you..You'd think an educated person could come up with something more original than a health savings account...What kind of tool thinks a minimum wage worker is going to have any money left over from their pay check to put into a health saving account...Hit the eject button and flush this clown...besides , he ain't white...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 29, 2015 - 09:19pm PT
Cosmic..Vote for me and i'll keep you busy doing the windows on the White House...But no window peeping eh...? President RJ
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 29, 2015 - 09:23pm PT
F*#k yeah Cosmic...Hopefully you'll push the button......
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 30, 2015 - 12:43am PT
... or butt-dial the button.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 30, 2015 - 02:55am PT
Trump/Cruz/Carson are driving people crazy and I love it. Refreshing....
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 30, 2015 - 07:15am PT
Actually Trump/Cruz/Carson are showing the world how many crazy people there are in the ranks of the Repugnant Party.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 30, 2015 - 07:30am PT
How long till a 'Ready for Ben?' thread?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Aug 30, 2015 - 08:06am PT
Stop Expecting Evangelicals To Reject Trump Because He's Not Much Of A Christian (Crooks and Liars)

".....So they [evangelicals] don't really care about whether a candidate or elected official has lived in accordance with their values. What they want is a candidate or elected official who will use their values (or, frankly, use anything) as a club to beat the people they don't like -- Democrats, liberals, immigrants, Muslims.

".....Trump is attacking immigrants, insulting women, and generally being an obnoxious, ignorant boor whose attempts to BS his way through questions (about his faith and other subjects, including the details of his policies) are so easy to see through that we can't believe he's getting away with them. And yet he is. He's getting away with them in large part because the right can see he's left us angry and speechless.

But don't evangelicals care about God and faith? I'm not sure white right-wing Evangelicals in America really do care all that much. For many of them, Christianity is mostly a club they use to beat Godless liberals, the less fortunate, and non-Christians. What the faith seems to affirm for them more than anything else is the sense that humanity is divided into the good and the purely evil, and life's main task is to sort everyone into these two categories, and render appropriate punishments on the latter. This worldview isn't limited to God's judgment in the afterlife -- it extends to life on earth, which is why right-wing Evangelicals despise government efforts to aid anyone other than themselves and their kind (the "deserving").

So, in a way, Trump is embodying religion as they understand it when he threatens to round up and wall out immigrants, or bomb Muslims and seize Middle Eastern oil. He's taking things from the undeserving and giving them to the deserving. Isn't that what Christian conservatives think Jesus wants?"

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 30, 2015 - 09:30am PT
"What the faith seems to affirm for them more than anything else is the sense that humanity is divided into the good and the purely evil, and life's main task is to sort everyone into these two categories, and render appropriate punishments on the latter."

From the Abrahamic perspective, the meaning of life

Evangelicals. Christianity. Isis. Islam.
Norton

Social climber
Aug 31, 2015 - 03:53pm PT
and speaking of The Donald

This is the first time since July that Trump isn’t leading in first.

Republican presidential candidates Donald Trump and Ben Carson are tied for first place among likely Iowa Republican caucus-goers, according to a new poll conducted by Monmouth University.

Voters were asked who they would support if the presidential caucus were to be held today. Trump and Carson each received 23% of the votes, Trump rising 10 points from a July poll and Carson rising 15 points.

Former HP chief executive Carly Fiorina also received a significant boost to 10%, an escalation of 7 points since the last poll, while Scott Walker saw a steep decline of 15 points, bringing him to 7%.

The poll also measured voters’ commitment to their current opinion. 12% said they were completely decided on who they’ll vote for, and 42% said that they had a strong preference but could change their mind. 47% either had a slight preference or were completely undecided. Trump’s supporters tended to be more steadfast in their opinions than Carson’s.

Donald Trump, president and chief executive of Trump Organization Inc. and 2016 Republican presidential candidate,



http://fortune.com/2015/08/31/trump-carson-poll/
dirtbag

climber
Aug 31, 2015 - 03:57pm PT
Tough choice.

Trump hates Mexicans and women,
Carson hates gays.

dirtbag

climber
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:02pm PT
Well they are haters. Their record is plain and simple. Your man Carson hates gays. F*#king hates them.
Norton

Social climber
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:06pm PT
no, Cragman

it is not about someone having a different opinion from your own

it IS about bigotry, and that is exactly what the political party that you support with your
vote is all about

bigotry, damn near every day in the press one of your "leaders' is saying stupid racist
things about Mexicans, Asians, Blacks

saying stupid and bigoted things about women

saying bigoted things about people who prefer to be with people the same sex as them

and that is not a simple "difference of opinion"

what that IS is 13th century dumb assness, it is ignorant and it is flat out wrong

dirtbag

climber
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:06pm PT
Sorry cragman, I don't buy it. You're kidding yourself.

You can't say you love them and advocate for laws that treat them as second class.

That's not respect. The hate the sin/love the sinner spiel is a delusion.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Aug 31, 2015 - 04:12pm PT
it is ignorant and it is flat out wrong

As is polygamy, bestiality, and lustful behavior with knotholes in trees, right?

Nobody is disagreeing with homosexuality qua person. Carson believes that homosexual behavior qua behavior is immoral.

You would disagree, but the nature of such a disagreement does not have you being automatically correct. It is a moral disagreement qua behavior, not qua person.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 31, 2015 - 05:27pm PT
Actually Trump/Cruz/Carson are showing the world how many crazy people there are in the ranks of the Repugnant Party.


The truly crazy thing is that the GOP could put Mr. & Mrs. Potato Head on the ticket, and nearly half the friggin' country will still vote for them.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 31, 2015 - 05:53pm PT

lookin pretty good in comparison

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Aug 31, 2015 - 07:15pm PT
But don't evangelicals care about God and faith? I'm not sure white right-wing Evangelicals in America really do care all that much. For many of them, Christianity is mostly a club they use to beat Godless liberals, the less fortunate, and non-Christians. What the faith seems to affirm for them more than anything else is the sense that humanity is divided into the good and the purely evil, and life's main task is to sort everyone into these two categories, and render appropriate punishments on the latter. This worldview isn't limited to God's judgment in the afterlife -- it extends to life on earth, which is why right-wing Evangelicals despise government efforts to aid anyone other than themselves and their kind (the "deserving").
Norton

Social climber
Aug 31, 2015 - 07:21pm PT
this thread is about Donald

yet TGT continues to be absolutely fascinated, enthralled with Hillary Clinton

obsessed

is this healthy?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 31, 2015 - 07:36pm PT
I find the term Christian to be a perjorative....glad it doesn't apply to me.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 31, 2015 - 07:37pm PT
If you hate gays and reject established science, then Carson is your guy.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 31, 2015 - 07:40pm PT
He has proven he can consistently make good judgements in high pressure situations.

How many of the other contenders have been in a situation with stakes as high as holding someones brain in their hands?
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Aug 31, 2015 - 07:55pm PT
I AM ready for Donald!

Norton

Social climber
Aug 31, 2015 - 08:05pm PT
If you hate gays and reject established science, then Carson is your guy.

that also describes the typical older white male Republican base voter

you know, the type that thinks it makes sense to equate being good at your unrelated day job is the same as showing the depth of issue knowledge to be US President

sorry but Ben Carson is not ready for Prime Time

he should start with a basic civics class and then have Sarah Palin's tutors teach him
slowly and patiently, about just a few things, like Foreign Policy, how government works etc
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Aug 31, 2015 - 08:33pm PT
His supporters show a complete lack of understanding on what the president does. They'd give the highest elected office in the country, maybe the world, to a person with ZERO political experience. That's lunacy. But he's tied with Trump in Iowa...which should tell you all you need to know about Iowa.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 31, 2015 - 08:34pm PT
Cragman's post at the bottom of the previous page is interesting and instructive.

He quotes (in a captioned photo) Republican hopeful Ben Carson responding to a heckler who called him a moron for believing in god with this: "I believe I came from God, and you believe you came from a monkey, and you’ve convinced me you’re right."

Now that's the kind of zinger that we all wish we could come up with when insulted... until we stop for a moment and realize what it implies.

What it implies is that Mr. Carson is denying everything that science has shown us, because it conflicts with his demonstrably wrong religious beliefs.

What happens when he's in the White House and reality conflicts with his religion?

All of the US Presidents since Eisenhower (the only ones I know much about) have been Presidents first and religious people second. Do you really want to give someone who denies evolution control over the red button?
Norton

Social climber
Aug 31, 2015 - 08:35pm PT
good thing no one posting on this thread is dumb enough to think Carson is "ready'

what a relief
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Aug 31, 2015 - 08:38pm PT
He quotes (in a captioned photo) Republican hopeful Ben Carson responding to a heckler who called him a moron for believing in god with this: "I believe I came from God, and you believe you came from a monkey, and you’ve convinced me you’re right."

Now that's the kind of zinger that we all wish we could come up with when insulted... until we stop for a moment and realize what it implies.

It implies that Carson now believes in evolution!
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Aug 31, 2015 - 09:42pm PT
to madbolter1 from a comment of yours a page or so back:

so the issue is behaviour, not the person?

and by behaviour i'm assuming you must be referring to anal sex and fellatio for gay males and either cunnilingus or the use of dildo's with lesbians?

do i have that right? or is there some other behaviour that is common to all homosexual people that i'm not aware of? maybe overly frequent use of jazz hands?

in case i'm correct, do you know if carson takes a stand against those behaviours when perceived hetero's do them? or is it just the people that are homosexual who he has an issue with engaging in certain behaviours?

furthermore, i wonder if you'd know his stance, being the man of science that he is, on the 1 out of every 421 accepted as females competing in the last five olympic games, who were actually genetically male. if they are married to genetic and pheotypical males and deliver fellatio to their husbands is their behaviour moral or immoral? if they have "straight" sex is it moral or immoral?

please advise.
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Aug 31, 2015 - 10:25pm PT
I can't believe I agree with Norton...

Oh, wait...



Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Aug 31, 2015 - 10:39pm PT
jazz hands really piss me off...and the prezident should just stay home and shut the f*#k up or speak up or....pathetic.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 1, 2015 - 12:07am PT
please advise.

From the dripping sarcasm in your post, I don't think you really want to be advised.

Also, far be it from me to speak for Carson on the details of his perspective. Earlier, I was offering a "charitable take" on the subject from the general perspective of some educated Adventists I've talked to. Carson may or may not share their perspectives. At a general level, I would expect that he does.

so the issue is behaviour, not the person?

That depends upon what you mean by "the issue." I would say that "the issue" concerns the morality of behavior, as just "being" qua person is not in itself a morally-defining feature in this context.

and by behaviour i'm assuming you must be referring to anal sex and fellatio for gay males and either cunnilingus or the use of dildo's with lesbians?

Most Adventists, Carson included I would hazard a guess, think that sexuality is only legitimately expressed (in behavior) in the context of a marriage between one man and one woman. Since none of the behaviors you described are in that context, I would guess that Carson would say that such behaviors are morally wrong.

You really don't want me to get into the philosophy of intention, which is how behavior is defined at the level of granularity you are taking a stab at. But I'll nutshell volumes to say that it is not the "same behavior" for a woman to fellate her husband as for a man to fellate another man. If you want to press me on that point as well, then do NOT complain when you get a lengthy post in response.

do i have that right? or is there some other behaviour that is common to all homosexual people that i'm not aware of? maybe overly frequent use of jazz hands?

I'm gonna just let that slide. M-kay?

in case i'm correct, do you know if carson takes a stand against those behaviours when perceived hetero's do them? or is it just the people that are homosexual who he has an issue with engaging in certain behaviours?

Again, I don't know the details of Carson's perspective. And at that level of detail, I don't know what various educated Adventists would think.

Again, trying to give a charitable case for them, I would guess that they would say that anal sex would be wrong in all contexts (as "unnatural" in the rubric of certain Bible verses). But, that's going out on a limb, because many could just as well quote the verse that says "the marriage bed is undefiled." The key point is that they will say that God recognizes morally righteous sexuality as expressed only between a man and woman in the context of marriage. Homosexual behaviors are by definition not an expression of sexuality in that context. And "marriage" as government has now defined it is not "marriage" in the Biblical sense, which is the sense they are concerned with.

furthermore, i wonder if you'd know his stance, being the man of science that he is, on the 1 out of every 421 accepted as females competing in the last five olympic games, who were actually genetically male.

I expect that Carson, being a man of science, would read your example article and say something like this: "It doesn't take a man of science to see that the article does not actually say what you claim it does. Having 'male range' testosterone levels does not even qualify as a necessary, much less sufficient, condition for a person to be 'genetically male,' as you said."

if they are married to genetic and pheotypical males and deliver fellatio to their husbands is their behaviour moral or immoral? if they have "straight" sex is it moral or immoral?

There certainly are some "edge cases," although the numbers are not as high as you suggest. The edge cases are made even "edgier" by the fact that these so-called "phenotypical males" do not come into the world with a penis, but they instead have a vagina. So, I think that since you're pressing the line that there is some substantive "maleness" about these people with a vagina, the scientific burden of proof would be on you to explain what the necessary and sufficient conditions of gender really are.

If you can really make the case that what you have in your thought experiment are one genuine male and one genuine female, and they are married, then I doubt Carson (or most other educated Adventists) are going to nit-pick their behaviors in the marriage bed.

So, what you're left with is the issue of what marriage is. And there government has wildly muddied the waters! It would have been much better for government to have nothing to do with what is a fundamentally religious definition in the United States. The only reason we have the present cultural divide on this issue is that government unilaterally decided to disconnect "marriage" from its traditional religious/moral definition.

In the beginning, government should have defined a "civil union" with all of the governmentally-recognized privileges that married couples enjoy. Any person would have the right to enjoy such privileges in the context of a civil union (including any and all consenting adults, which does imply polygamy and other sorts of "contractual" relationships people might wish to form). Where does government get off defining what sorts of relationships (and contracts) that consenting adults can form among themselves, and then dole out "rights" on the basis of "preferred" unions but not others?!? That government even tried to get its fingers into values, morality, and religion is the really issue here.

So, get the moral implications out of civil unions, and have government doing what it should: recognize all contractual unions between consenting adults as conferring whatever tax advantages, etc. that married couples now enjoy.

Then, "marriage" would be employed only by those caring to put an overtly religious stamp on their relationship.

Non-religious people simply wouldn't care about "getting the label" because it would be functionally irrelevant and would add nothing they would care to add to their legally-recognized union.

Religious people could get "married" according to whatever standard their "holy writs" indicated.

I can't speak for Carson on this point, but I for one have exactly zero problem with civil unions between homosexuals. Government has no business in the morality business! To me, it's sad that government so muddied the waters from the beginning that it didn't recognize the moral/religious basis of "traditional marriage" and thus separate that label from the moral/religious-neutral label of "civil union" and all of its universally-applicable rights and privileges.

Given the last few paragraphs, I myself would like to hear Carson's take on the distinction between civil unions and "traditional marriage" and hear if he would have any problem with full civil rights being recognized for homosexual couples, where by "civil rights" I mean all rights and privileges from the government's perspective, including tax, inheritance, and other advantages presently granted to "families."
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Sep 1, 2015 - 06:26am PT
Short version: Ben's a rightwing freak show.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 1, 2015 - 07:44am PT
Bread and Circus.... nothing more.

The machine owns the MSM, ergo anyone you see on it is part of it.

Like WWE wrestling events.... we know it's all staged but boy it's fun to watch and "vote" on a winner...
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 1, 2015 - 08:38am PT
In related news: Saying that "things just didn't work out," the billionaire Koch brothers have decided to put Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker up for sale.
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/cutting-losses-kochs-to-sell-scott-walker
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 1, 2015 - 08:57am PT
2016 GOP race - let's call it what it is: an insanely abrupt escalation in a fifty year race to appeal to the lowest common denominator in irrational, white male fear.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Sep 1, 2015 - 09:09am PT
Not to mention blurring the Real issues.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 1, 2015 - 09:55am PT
Someone who is an atheist doesn't have a right to tell someone who isn't an atheist what they can or cannot do or what they can or cannot say.

Except this puts the lie to his whole spiel.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 1, 2015 - 11:32am PT

Dr. Ben Carson recently said that Obamacare was the worst thing since slavery.


The primary reason that White social conservatives are so enamored with Black conservatives like Dr. Carson and Allen West is, these people allow themselves to be placed in the role that conservatives want to see ALL Black people - essentially, grinnin’ children who know their place, deferential to white people, and hostile toward all other Black people who are arrogant enough to consider themselves equal to the White population.

So thinking big, Ben apparently believes that slavery was bad, how bad we do not know.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 1, 2015 - 11:37am PT
Being republican - not exactly a high bar.

throwpie

Trad climber
Berkeley
Sep 1, 2015 - 11:58am PT
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 1, 2015 - 12:00pm PT
From Bret Stephens in today's Wall Street Journal:

"If by now you don't find Donald Trump appalling, you're appalling.

If you have reached physical maturity and still chuckle at Mr. Trump's pubescent jokes about Rosie O'Donnell or Heidi Klum, you will never reach mental maturity. If you watched Mr. Trump mock fellow candidate Lindsey Graham's low poll number and don't cringe at the lack of class, you are incapable of class. If you think we need to build new apirports in Queens the way they build them in Qatar, you should be sent to join the millions of forced laborers who do construction in the Persian Gulf. It would serve you right.

. . .There will be other opportunities to write about the radical affinities and moralizing conceits of Democrats and libverals. For now, let's speak plainly about what the Trump ascendancy says about the potential future of the Republican Party and the conservative movement.

It says that we may soon have a conservative movement in which the American creed of 'give us your tired, your poor' could yield to the Trumpian creeed that American must not become a 'dumping ground' to poor immigrants from Latin America, as if these millions of hardworking and God-fearing people are a specimen of garbage.

. . .It says that a sizeable consituency in a party that is supposed to favor a plain reading of the Constitution objects to a plan reading of the 14th Amendment: 'All persons born or naturalized int he United States, and subject to the jurisdiciton thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein which they reside.'"

. . .It says that a movement that is supposed to believe in economic freedom doesn't believe in the essence of economic freedom: to wit, the free movement of goods, services, capital and labor.

. . .Because the Republican Party has not lost its mind - at least not yet - I doubt that Mr. Trump will be its presidential nominee. . . Voters, like diners in a fancy restaurant, may entertain the idea of ordering the pigeon, but they'll probably wind up with the chicken.

. . .Republicans like to think of America as an exceptional nation. And it is, not least in its distaste for demagogues. Donald Trump's candidacy puts the strength of that distaste to the test."

I think Peggy Noonan has a reasonable analysis of the current state of American politics, viz that most of the electorate is convinced that an elite minority rules everything, gets everything, and is responsible for all their problems. Their only disagreement is on the identity of the culprits and what to do about it. Thus, some support Sanders, and the rest support Trump. While, as Stephens suggests, trying to rationalize Trump's candidacy is like "applying bathroom deodorizer to mask the stench" of the Trump candidacy, I think Noonan is pretty close to the truth.

It does not reflect well on my party, or on the U.S. electorate generally.

John
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 1, 2015 - 12:04pm PT
The primary reason that White social conservatives are so enamored with Black conservatives like Dr. Carson and Allen West is, these people allow themselves to be placed in the role that conservatives want to see ALL Black people - essentially, grinnin’ children who know their place, deferential to white people, and hostile toward all other Black people who are arrogant enough to consider themselves equal to the White population.

I think that quote reflects, more than anything else, the anger of the left when one of theirs escapes from the plantation. Sorry to use such inflammatory rhetoric, but the vitriolic nature of the left's denunciation of Republican women and Republican racial or ethnic minorities, using words they would never permit ot be used against one of their own, leads to no other conclusion.

John
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 1, 2015 - 12:07pm PT
Buckley is roiling in his grave; good thing he didn't live to see the side-show his party has become.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 1, 2015 - 12:08pm PT
JL...and then we have this man who the rest of the world sees in a different way than the republican party.

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politics/gop-hatred-loses-more-ground-president-obama-named-most-admired-man-in-the-world/


Also...could you please give me a list of the bills passed by the republicans that have helped the average/middle class Americans?
throwpie

Trad climber
Berkeley
Sep 1, 2015 - 12:09pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Sep 1, 2015 - 12:12pm PT
All good points in that column, John.

But your party has been playing patty cake with trump supporters for awhile, and this is the mess the Republican Party has made for itself. They should've passed an immigration bill a couple of years ago and put these folks back in their holes. But they killed it.

Republicans have wanted the votes, but not the voters.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 1, 2015 - 12:29pm PT
I think Peggy Noonan has a reasonable analysis

This statement has never been, nor will it ever be true.
Magic Dolphin Lady, typically about six Tom Collins deep when typing her drivel.

The rightwing base thinks crime is out of control, despite a huge drop in violent crime over the last 20 years. They believe our President doesn't adress illegal immigration, despite record levels of deportations. They believe "welfare queens" and "foreign aid" are the source of their economic ills, despite being tiny portions of the budget. They believe those at the bottom of the economic ladder are "taking our jobs", despite the fact that they view working in chicken houses, slaughterhouses, farm fields,roofing and digging ditches, and restaurant kitchens as beneath them.

The difference, John, as you well know, is that the left is CORRECT when viewing the elite minority (minority economically, not racially) as being at the root of the problem, and they have the DATA to back that up. Whereas the right is wrong when they blame their economic ills on a non-elite minority (poor non-whites).

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 1, 2015 - 12:31pm PT
Also...could you please give me a list of the bills passed by the republicans that have helped the average/middle class Americans?

Starting when, Bob? Also, what do you mean by "passed by Republicans?" Most bills that helped average Americans had at least some measure of bipartisanship. I suppose you could say the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was "passed by Republicans," since most of the dissenters were Democrats, but without the support of Lyndon Johnson and the Democratic leadership the bill may have failed.

Similarly, the two tax reform bills passed during the Reagan presidency, that engendered 25 years of strong economic growth, had strong Republican support, but would not have passed without the support of many Democrats.

What about railroad and airline deregulation, that lowevered fares and freight rates dramatically? It was a Republican idea, but came into being because of support by Carter and the Democratic leadership.

The Republicans never had a filibuster and/or veto-proof majority, so I can't think of any bills passed by Republicans without some Democratic support, period.

I challenge you to demonstrate legislation at any level (state, federal or local) that the Democrats alone enacted that benefitted the poor or middle-class generally, rather than narrow, special-interest groups within the middle class or poor (e.g. government employees).

John
dirtbag

climber
Sep 1, 2015 - 12:35pm PT
The ACA.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 1, 2015 - 12:49pm PT
John...this congress.

EL cap..you are wasting your time posting facts...they feed on emotions.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 1, 2015 - 12:50pm PT
Also...could you please give me a list of the bills passed by the republicans that have helped the average/middle class Americans?

Actually it's the bills not passed (and the money not taken from their pockets, the useless over-regulation, the coddling of special interests, protectionist job-destroying regulation, etc.) that may give the average/middle class American some small hope for economic survival.

And anyone who thinks that children of illegal aliens need to be given US citizenship should write a short essay on what the clause "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" means in the context of the 14th Amendment. (I know libs are pretty good at pretending parts of the constitution that they don't like, such as the 2nd Amendment, either don't exist or have ridiculous meanings like "the national guard has the right have weapons," so I don't really expect them to fess up. But it's fun to see them squirm.)
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 1, 2015 - 01:22pm PT
It's hard to post specific examples of bills not passed--but the general point is that we need some good old fashioned Austrian School economic policies to put the economy on solid footing. The repubs do a pretty bad job in enacting those policies (and a terrible job in the case of Bush), but the dems are even worse!
dirtbag

climber
Sep 1, 2015 - 01:23pm PT
How well is austerity working for Greece and England?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 1, 2015 - 01:24pm PT
El Cap,

First, I'm glad to see a chart that compares averages to averages (even if they're comparing average rates of changes). All too often, I see charts comparing total corporate profits or total income of the top 1% to average wages or, even more dishonestly, to average change in wages.

Unfortunately, I'm having some trouble reconstructing your graph from BLS and IRS data. What is the source of the graph?

Thanks.

John
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 1, 2015 - 01:26pm PT
How well is austerity working for Greece and England?

What policy would work better, considering that the Greeks have run out of other peoples' money, and the UK has been trying "inausterity" off and on for about 70 years?

John
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 1, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
How well is austerity working for Greece and England?

The better question would be where did all that spending get them?
dirtbag

climber
Sep 1, 2015 - 01:31pm PT
Actually England has been hovering near a recession since austerity measures were enacted. It has failed.

While Greece overspent, the screws have been tightened so much that they are now in a full blown depression.

Three million jobs were created thanks to the 2009 stimulus.

I think I'll pass on conservative economics.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 1, 2015 - 01:32pm PT
I think this is the one you want...

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Sep 1, 2015 - 01:50pm PT
A couple of pages back, TGT posted a couple of pics with the captions:

I want the TRUTH!
and
I Deleted the TRUTH!!

Outrageous, for sure.


But where was the outrage when this happened:

The Bush White House email scandal surfaced in 2007 during the controversy involving the dismissal of eight U.S. attorneys. Congressional requests for administration documents while investigating the dismissals of the U.S. attorneys required the Bush administration to reveal that not all internal White House emails were available, because they were sent via a non-government domain hosted on an email server not controlled by the federal government. Conducting governmental business in this manner is a possible violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978, and the Hatch Act.[1] Over 5 million emails may have been lost or deleted.[2][3] Greg Palast claims to have come up with 500 of the Karl Rove lost emails, leading to damaging allegations.[4] In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been deleted.[5]

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 1, 2015 - 01:59pm PT
" The repubs do a pretty bad job in enacting those policies (and a terrible job in the case of Bush), but the dems are even worse!


So how do explain the job growth with Clinton & Obama compared to his republican counterparts.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 1, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
"What policy would work better, considering that the Greeks have run out of other peoples' money, and the UK has been trying "inausterity" off and on for about 70 years?"



Seems like a "Thousand points of light" really worked out well.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 1, 2015 - 02:09pm PT
So how do explain the job growth with Clinton & Obama compared to his republican counterparts.

Obama's economy is dismal. He has the worst employment numbers of any President in a long time.

Clinton on the other hand had the advantage of being a peace time president after the cold war ended...

It worked so well for him that not even lying under oath and banging the interns during office hours could dislodge him...
dirtbag

climber
Sep 1, 2015 - 02:11pm PT
Obama's economy is dismal. He has the worst employment numbers of any President in a long time

What are the current numbers and how do they compare with when he first took office?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 1, 2015 - 02:13pm PT
Hermit...really.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/06/07/1391360/-Obama-has-created-six-times-as-many-jobs-as-Bush
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 1, 2015 - 02:15pm PT
What are the current numbers and how do they compare with when he first took office?

There are less people working now than when he took office. Sorry, it's a fact...

EDIT: Bob, I don't give a sh#t about Bush. That is your thing. Besides, you are looking at the shiny thing. It is what Obama want's you to see (which as a sycophant you dutifully do...LOL!!!)
dirtbag

climber
Sep 1, 2015 - 02:16pm PT
There are less people working now than when he took office.

Source?

And who was in office when the economy tanked?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 1, 2015 - 02:19pm PT
John, I don't recall the source of that data, I've had that chart on my desktop for years. But here's another from the CBO that makes essentially the same point, that the top 1% have seen the vast, vast majority of income gains (indeed many brackets have seen real income DECREASE and their share of national income decrease)

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 1, 2015 - 02:29pm PT
Hermit wrote: EDIT: Bob, I don't give a sh#t about Bush. That is your thing. Besides, you are looking at the shiny thing. It is what Obama want's you to see (which as a sycophant you dutifully do...LOL!!!)


Really. the staggering effect of the Bush legacy will haunt us for years to come.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 1, 2015 - 02:31pm PT
Really. the staggering effect of the Bush legacy will haunt us for years to come.


Spoken like a good little Marxist....
Norton

Social climber
Sep 1, 2015 - 02:49pm PT
here you go, hermit master

what's not to like?

now look hard, find something to criticize

oh, the red stuff, the job losses, that was the remain of the Republican RECESSION

just to be clear

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 1, 2015 - 02:49pm PT
"Spoken like a good little Marxist"


Is that the best you can do?


Looking at your photos seems like you have a huge hard-on/obsession for Hillary.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Sep 1, 2015 - 02:49pm PT
I don't give a sh#t about Bush.

HermitMaster, we're here discussing The Donald, and how past GOP administrations have fared in the recent past. Because W is the closest we have to what a Republican administration stands for (after all, it was the Republicans who voted them in, twice), those who vote that way gotta dance to the music they brought.

Now, tell me again what was the state of the economy when Obama took office. I love to hear good ol' Republicans state those facts.


(Sorry if you're not one who votes Republican Hermit, but most of the Republicans I speak to say "Forget Bush...". Pretty funny, actually.)
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 1, 2015 - 03:09pm PT
Total employment in the U.S. is larger today than it was in 2008.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 1, 2015 - 03:09pm PT
Yes forget the wars, the crash, the lies, the stupidity and Dick Cheney.


"Now that 2014 has gone on the books as the best year for employment growth in 15 years, the official figures show that the U.S. had 6,371,000 more people employed in December than it did when Obama took office in 2009. So during Obama’s first six years in office, the U.S. has added nearly five times more jobs than it did during the entire eight years under President George W. Bush. (Bush’s total was just under 1.3 million.)
Bush’s record suffered from a loss of nearly 4.4 million jobs in the last 12 months of his presidency, and we can’t say what the last two years of Obama’s tenure will bring.
The official unemployment rate has now dipped to 5.6 percent, which is 2.2 percentage points below where it was when Obama first took office. It is not only the lowest jobless rate in six years — it is slightly better than the historical average. Since 1948, the monthly jobless rate has averaged 5.8 percent.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 1, 2015 - 03:19pm PT
You really miss the Bush years...http://www.salon.com/2005/01/18/scandal_11/


This was just in the first four.
Norton

Social climber
Sep 1, 2015 - 03:25pm PT

someone explain WHY is the average Republican voter so damn stupid?

is it in the water, where does this fvcking ignorance come from?

Well into his second term as president, over half of Republicans remain convinced that president Barack Obama is a Muslim, according to a poll released Tuesday by Democratic firm Public Policy Polling.

The poll finds that 54 percent of Republicans think Obama is a Muslim, 14 percent think he's a Christian and 32 percent say they are unsure.

Obama's country of birth also remains a question for Republicans. A plurality, 44 percent, say they don't think he was born in the U.S. Only a third believe that he is American-born, and slightly less than another third are unsure where he was born.
Public Policy Polling
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 1, 2015 - 03:34pm PT
An African Muslim to be concise.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 1, 2015 - 03:36pm PT



If it wasn't so sad you would just have to laugh.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 1, 2015 - 03:42pm PT
In a nutshell, the 2016 election is going to be the biggest IQ test in history and as it is the GOP primary is already a grand Rorschach test.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 1, 2015 - 03:53pm PT
Republican logic...

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 1, 2015 - 04:00pm PT
And 1,320,000 alcohol related deaths since Columbine and no prohibition.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Sep 1, 2015 - 04:03pm PT

Sep 1, 2015 - 03:25pm PT

someone explain WHY is the average Republican voter so damn stupid?

is it in the water, where does this fvcking ignorance come from?

Norton, try to watch Fox 5-8 pm. Just once. Conservatives tune in religiously. Imagine watching every. frickin. day. Then get in your car and imagine listening to the same crap every. single. mile. Now you'll have your answer.

It fuels the fear and anger you see here daily.
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Sep 1, 2015 - 04:21pm PT
And 1,320,000 alcohol related deaths since Columbine and no prohibition.

TGT, get back to us when a school is massacred by a bottle of Jim Beam.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 1, 2015 - 04:28pm PT
Yeah, that number, kids under 14, killed by dunk drivers is only around 16,500

(1100 per year)
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 1, 2015 - 04:36pm PT
The "is a Obama a Muslim" thing is perhaps a little more nuanced than some of you would like to admit.
I would be willing to revise my view if someone more familiar with sharia law than I am contradicts me, but it seems to me that Obama is in fact a Muslim under sharia law.
This case got a lot of international attention:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-27424064

Here are the basic facts: a girl had Muslim father, Christian mother, father was gone during childhood and girl was raised by mom, girl grew up and married a Christian, then was sentenced to death for apostasy.

Sound kind of familiar?

It's easy to laugh this off and say who cares what the Muslims think, and about most things I'd agree. But if the question is whether someone is a Muslim, don't the Muslims get a say in that? If you're in a country they control, you "bet your life" they do.



FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Sep 1, 2015 - 04:39pm PT
Not in the U.S. in this country we get to pick.
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Sep 1, 2015 - 05:03pm PT
Yeah, that number, kids under 14, killed by dunk drivers is only around 16,500

And so we take steps to restrict drunk drivers, Should we also take steps to restrict sales of guns?
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 1, 2015 - 05:06pm PT
FRUMY, that seems to be the trend, now we can apparently pick things like what sex you are (sort of, to my knowledge the chromosomes don't change) and what race we are (again, sort of).
But can you "pick" that you're not, say, a Jew? You can pick what you believe, but you can't pick your relatives. To muslims, apparently being a muslim is a permanent, immutable characteristic (at least you get killed if you try to change it), and Obama appears to be a muslim under that definition.

The main point of this is that it's mostly a matter of semantics--people who say Obama is a muslim appear to be correct under the muslims' definition of what it means to be a muslim.

dirtbag

climber
Sep 1, 2015 - 05:46pm PT
Blah blah, fair points but I'd bet most of the "yes he is" respondents think he is a devout worshipper.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 1, 2015 - 05:50pm PT
Thanks, healyje and El Cap, for the replies. If the statistics for share of income of the top 1% come from the IRS (the most likely source), then they show reported income. Starting the time series in 1979, when the top marginal rate was still 70%, skews the results.

I was a partner in a law firm that started as a group that specialized in taxation issues, and had five certified specialists by the State Bar of California in taxation law when I joined in June of 1982. After the two tax reforms of the Reagan years took effect, our taxation business almost disappeared, except for defending audits and dealing with death taxes, because it was easier and cheaper to realize income when earned than to deal with the complications of tax-shelter strategies. Accordingly, the share of income going to the highest income earners didn't necessarily change, but the amount of income they reported on their tax returns did.

Ironically, though, the biggest shift in the percentage of income earned by the highest 1% came under the current administration, although I would consider it unfair to blame the administration alone. The government generally (meaning both the legislative and executive branches) borrowed one enormous amount of money, and has relied on keeping real interest rates negative during this time. One effect of unusually low interest rates is to raise the relative values of equities. Since most of the highest reported incomes consist primarily of capital gains (see California's tax history if you doubt this), a rising stock market increases the value of shares and increases the amount of gains realized when those shares sell.

None of this contradicts the relative stagnation of real wages, and both Sanders and Trump feed on the resentment about that stagnation. They just choose different bogeymen for the explanation. To me, they're two sides of the same coin.

Still, I can't disagree with your comments about the stupidity of many Republican voters. Unfortunately, the stupidity of many Democratic voters is also apparent to those willing to look. Fox News, sad to say, isn't the only source of one-sided information.

John
Norton

Social climber
Sep 1, 2015 - 05:53pm PT


there is no such thing as a "Christian child"

no such thing as a Muslim child

a child's brain is not developed and mature enough to have made the critical analysis to decide what religion to believe in

it is the child's parents that impart that particular religion's garments, rituals, on the child

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 1, 2015 - 06:43pm PT
Yeah, that number, kids under 14, killed by dunk drivers is only around 16,500


And so we take steps to restrict drunk drivers, Should we also take steps to restrict sales of guns?

A valid analogy is what steps do we take to restrict people killing people with guns?

Pretty sure there are plenty of laws already against that.

Anyone over 21 can go buy as much booze as you'd like, no license required.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Sep 1, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
Anyone over 21 can go buy as much booze as you'd like, no license required

Yet everyone chooses a gun over a car to murder with.



Take it over to the gun thread.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 1, 2015 - 08:00pm PT
Republicans Like Obama's Ideas Better When They Think They're Donald Trump's

A new poll shows how much Americans' policy opinions depend on the politician endorsing them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-republicans-democrats-poll_55e5fbb8e4b0c818f6196a82
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 1, 2015 - 08:08pm PT
JE! I find you perhaps the most-interesting political poster on ST.

I may not always agree, but I usually find your thoughts entertaining & worth thinking about.

Re:

Still, I can't disagree with your comments about the stupidity of many Republican voters. Unfortunately, the stupidity of many Democratic voters is also apparent to those willing to look. Fox News, sad to say, isn't the only source of one-sided information.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Sep 1, 2015 - 08:23pm PT
Republicans flock to Fox in numbers that far surpass any one news source for Democrats.

Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Sep 1, 2015 - 08:26pm PT
JE! I find you perhaps the most-interesting political poster on ST.

John always thinks for himself, doesn't need anyone to tell him what to think. He deals with facts.

I just can't figure out why he always comes to the wrong conclusion! :-)
Norton

Social climber
Sep 1, 2015 - 08:28pm PT
Unfortunately, the stupidity of many Democratic voters is also apparent to those willing to look

calling JohnE

please elaborate on the stupidity of Democratic voters?

social issues, women's issues, or perhaps you want to talk about the economy

let's get the elephant out in the open here, don't hold back
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Sep 1, 2015 - 08:53pm PT
I wonder what the record is for longest internet argument where the same five people say the same thing over and over







Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 1, 2015 - 10:57pm PT
The "is a Obama a Muslim" thing is perhaps a little more nuanced than some of you would like to admit.

I would be willing to revise my view if someone more familiar with sharia law than I am contradicts me, but it seems to me that Obama is in fact a Muslim under sharia law.

Well, perhaps you are advocating that the US should adopt Sharia Law?

But we don't. So the freedom to chose one'a religion is the operative law in the US, the country of birth of the President, and where he resides.

Are you advocating that if you discover through genetic testing, that you have the DNA of those who were unquestionably Muslim, that you should be considered a "fifth columnist" who has invaded the US??

Should you be arrested for falsely identifying yourself on federal documents?
Captain...or Skully

climber
Boise, ID or the fricken Bakken, variously
Sep 1, 2015 - 11:20pm PT
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 2, 2015 - 03:37am PT
Here's Ben Carson in a nutshell (pun intended): http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2015/09/1451-ben-carson.html
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Sep 2, 2015 - 05:17am PT
I wonder what the record is for longest internet argument where the same five people say the same thing over and over



That's an interesting question. Cmac might be able to come up with some post counts for the longest threads here...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 2, 2015 - 06:33am PT
Yes John...the mistakes the democrats make for voting on/for higher minimum wages, health care, clean air, clean water, SS, medicaid, medicare, less military, more infrastructure, food stamps, unemployment, workers rights, climate change, women rights, civil rights and so on. The very nerve.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 2, 2015 - 06:46am PT
I agree DMT, but the dark side has been very strong these last few years.

:-)
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Sep 2, 2015 - 06:49am PT
Don't the people have a role in any of this? (yes, of course). Congress controls the budget and we all elect them. These debates about presidential preference always ignore that simple fact.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Sep 2, 2015 - 06:50am PT
We can't afford another Republican Administration, the gigantic increase in debt, the wars, the Right Wing SCOTUS "Justices".

But Trump, is different. I laughed when I saw the most recent Jeb! Ad. Almost looks like a Trump general election endorsement.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 2, 2015 - 07:25am PT
We can't afford another Republican Administration, the gigantic increase in debt, the wars, the Right Wing SCOTUS "Justices".

Good point. Obama has done so much better.


John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Sep 2, 2015 - 07:50am PT
Since the bills are still pouring in from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, you just supported my point.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 2, 2015 - 09:44am PT

Well, perhaps you are advocating that the US should adopt Sharia Law?

But we don't. So the freedom to chose one'a religion is the operative law in the US, the country of birth of the President, and where he resides.

Are you advocating that if you discover through genetic testing, that you have the DNA of those who were unquestionably Muslim, that you should be considered a "fifth columnist" who has invaded the US??

Should you be arrested for falsely identifying yourself on federal document

Ken, I think you missed my point, which is simply that the question of whether someone is a Muslim has a semantic and social component, and that according to the Muslim definition, Obama appears to be a Muslim (and/or an apostate--I'm not an expert on Sharia law, I can't explain the details, but I think I get the big picture, which is that if your father is a Muslim, you better not say you're not a Muslim).
So if someone answers "yes" to "is a Obama a Muslim," they may just be using the Muslim definition, which doesn't seem so outlandish in light of the question! (It's also possible that they believe Obama self-identifies as a Muslim, goes to a mosque, etc., in which case they are simply wrong, at least as far as Obama has publicly said).

Here's an interesting analogy.
Consider the question: is Obama black? Almost everyone would answer either "yes" or "yes, sort of" and then go into something about being biracial. Very few people would say "no" and leave it at that.
Now consider the question "is Obama white"? The answers would be essentially reversed--people would answer "no" or "no but . . ."
What's the difference between the questions? His mother was as much "white" as his father was "black," and to the extent it matters, he had nothing to do with any of his black relatives growing up.
The only difference is the social meanings of "white" and "black," which as far as I can tell, seem to be based on the views of nineteenth century racists. Why people feel compelled to import those views into the modern day is beyond me.
Norton

Social climber
Sep 2, 2015 - 09:54am PT
well, I for one question if Donald Trump is really a Christian.

I mean he says he is so I suppose we have to take his word for that.

But there just is so much doubt that I can't see myself voting for him unless this is cleared up.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Sep 2, 2015 - 09:56am PT
Is trump black?

He looks kind of orange to me.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Sep 2, 2015 - 09:58am PT
Well said Duffield


Let's do some math

Nearly 5 million terrorist killed by the U.S.



Nearly 5 trillion spent.



A million dollars a terrorist.


There are Corporate Headquarters with people high fiving as we speak.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 2, 2015 - 09:59am PT
ET wrote: Good point. Obama has done so much better.


Yes he has.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 2, 2015 - 10:31am PT
More republican logic.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 2, 2015 - 10:47am PT
More republican logic.

Baffle the mind.

couchmaster

climber
Sep 2, 2015 - 10:49am PT
Bob, here is the Office of Budget and Managements chart of the Federal Budget as proposed for 2015. What or what is your chart? Maybe yours was pre-Obamacare?


ps, that one above the chart is hilarious, thanks.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 2, 2015 - 10:52am PT
One, or both, of those charts is BS. If Bob's is right then how does Obama
propose to go from spending 6% on 'government' to <1%? Wouldn't that be
Voodoo Economics?
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Sep 2, 2015 - 10:56am PT
Can't say for sure - but the top one looks to me to be actual spending (from some time). The bottom one is the President's proposal for 2015 which is just that...a proposal that is sent to Congress. Congress decides on what is actually spent.

Edit: A better explanation than my heinously simplified one above: https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/federal-budget-process/
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 2, 2015 - 10:57am PT
Bob'D posted a widely circulated Internet meme that has been declared "false" by mainstream, non-political fact checkers.
See http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/17/facebook-posts/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi/

Is there a correlation between being easily duped and thinking that Obama's done a great job as prez?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Sep 2, 2015 - 11:09am PT
Is there a correlation between being easily duped and thinking that Obama's done a great job as prez?


Yes. or maybe blind.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 2, 2015 - 11:13am PT
Based mostly on discretionary spending.


https://www.nationalpriorities.org/analysis/2014/presidents-2015-budget-in-pictures/

From the above link.

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 2, 2015 - 11:23am PT
Whoa, what happened, I was going to congratulate Bob for owning up to his mistake, but before I could that, he backedited?

Bob, do you or do you not take responsibility for posting an Internet meme that is wrong?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 2, 2015 - 11:29am PT
Yes to a point. :-)

Blah...go to the link I posted.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 2, 2015 - 11:36am PT
Well congratulations then! :)
I've seen variations of the misleading pie chart being posted for years, which greatly overstate the percentage of federal spending on defense.
I wish the libs would have enough respect for people to post stuff that was actually true, especially since the "point" (which is that the US spends an enormous amount on defense compared to the rest of the world) could in fact be made truthfully.
I just don't like being lied to (not saying Bob was lying, I'm sure he wasn't, just that he mistakenly posted false info).
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 2, 2015 - 12:00pm PT
Note how cleverly republicans target the half of discretionary spending they don't like...

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 2, 2015 - 12:11pm PT
So doesn't SS & medicare generate revenues/taxes?

So what about the military?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 2, 2015 - 12:48pm PT
[quote](Norton:)calling John
please elaborate on the stupidity of Democratic voters?

(Bob D"A:)Yes John...the mistakes the democrats make for voting on/for higher minimum wages, health care, clean air, clean water, SS, medicaid, medicare, less military, more infrastructure, food stamps, unemployment, workers rights, climate change, women rights, civil rights and so on. The very nerve./quote]

Before I respond, I need to acknowledge what I hope both Norton and Bob know, namely that I think both of them are highly intelligent, so when I attack some of the implications of their posts, I don't mean to impugn their intelligence. More fundamentally, my comments were made about voters. The policy differences inherent in some of Bob's and Norton's comments aren't what I'm talking about. Reasonable minds can differ about when the ACA is good or bad for health care, or what needs to be done to restore SS or medicare to acuarial solvency. Similarly, we can argue about who is helped and who is hurt by a $15/hr minimum wage, or where the proper balance lies in regulation or trade-offs between, say, an environment undefiled by humanity and humanity's desire for existence.


Those policy differences aren't what I'm talking about. Intelligent people disagree over all of those things. The stupidity to which I refer is more in the beliefs of certain voters in the following, among many others:

1. That there is no actuarial insolvency problem with Social Security. After all, in 20 years it can still pay 70% of what it owes (paraphrase of actual argument propounded by moveon.org);

2. Greedy bankers are the sole cause of the housing bubble and its bursting;

3. We can build a high speed rail in California and still spend the money we want to spend elsewhere;

4. Regulation protects the public, but not the regulated;

5. The cost of environmental protection or reduction of carbon emissions can be ignored. It's only the greedy businesses that care about it anyway;

6. Public transportation pays for itself;

7. MSNBC, Democracy Now! and ABC, CBS and NBC give unbiased and accurate news reporting;

8. Free trade only helps the rich, and only hurts ordinary people;

9. The government spends most of its money on the military (Sorry Bob. Social Security and Medicare don't "generate tax revenue." They just have tax revenue earmarked to fund a portion of their expenses);

10. We don't need to worry about public employee pension liabilities. If we just tax "the rich" a little more, we can pay for it all; and

11. The only way to get more is to take it from somebody else, i.e. the economy is a zero-sum game.

That's just a beginning. The hatred spewed by the left (and, not infrequently on these pages ) toward "Old, rich white men," "Wall Street" [a hatred shared by the Trump devotees], rural Americans who "hang onto their guns and religion," etc., is just as delusional as that of the Trump followers toward undocumented aliens (or, in the case of the Minuteman Project, immigrants generally).

Sorry, but voter stupidity permeates all frequencies of the political spectrum, and is as common now as it was in the days of H. L. Mencken's famous line that no one went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public -- or maybe even P. T. Barnum's dictum

John
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Sep 2, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
Here's another Bob D'A error

"More republican logic"


Guess what? She was elected as a Democrat. Sorry, your posts are in my trash can with Cranks.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 2, 2015 - 02:07pm PT
I like that last pie chart, but I'd change it to move 11% out of "defense" spending", and add 1% to each of the other categories, which would probably make a significant difference in the lives of most Americans.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 2, 2015 - 02:25pm PT
Saw a Trump voter driving down a street.

I know he was a trump voter because he had a confederate flag bumper sticker with "Nobama" written across the flag.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 2, 2015 - 02:37pm PT
^^^
Hard to disagree with the sentiment. I personally subscribe to the "No 'Bama" mantra. You ever been there? Alabama sux!
Norton

Social climber
Sep 2, 2015 - 02:40pm PT
I want to thank John E. for taking the time and careful thought to put forth his above
"problems", seems a good word, with what he sees in the political left's take on the
issue he outlined above.

AND, John is right in that there certainly are some people on the left who do see some of
the issues as he points out.

But I fear he gives the average Democratic voter far too much credit for having intelligence to have sorted each issue through critical analysis- much the same as many of the left mock those on the right for thinking they actually understand and have made informed
decisions of political issues.

Fact is, both the left and right have solid, built in, dependable bases that will always vote Democrat or Republican.

Case in point, last week I was at Starbucks having coffee and sitting across from a 70 year old "white" guy I knew only socially. Our conversation turned to the media and its reporting of the current political scene and he said to me that he always voted Republican therefore felt no need to keep current of issues. I said that must be a relief to not have to be informed before going into the voting booth, makes decision making so much easier.
I asked him if he would mind telling me why he was such a reliable Republican vote and he said one word, "entitlements". I asked him if he meant social security, medicare, corporate taxes, as entitlements and he said no, that he voted Republican because he felt the Democrats gave too entitlements to people who could work and chose not to. I said are you talking about food stamps, Section 8 housing, unemployment benefits and he said yes.
that no American should get any help from his tax dollars and that he felt the Republican party supported his position.

I was in no mood to argue with him and so I just told him that he really did not need to go to the voting booth because he could count of me canceling his vote out each time.

But back to John's above post, it's a good one and deserves a lot more conversation.
I need more time to think about a response, perhaps others will think about what John
said and put forth their thoughts on the individual issues he felt that the political left
was stupid in supporting.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Sep 2, 2015 - 02:41pm PT
John is over generalizing, as usual. Comparing Trump's bigotry to anything hopping on the left is specious.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 2, 2015 - 02:49pm PT
John...Has nothing to with her being elected a democrat/ it aligns with the republican platform/agenda and you know it.
Norton

Social climber
Sep 2, 2015 - 02:50pm PT
Crankster,
He took the time to lay out his thoughts and so did I.

I invite you to respond specifically to him?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 2, 2015 - 03:48pm PT
1. That there is no actuarial insolvency problem with Social Security. After all, in 20 years it can still pay 70% of what it owes.

That SS funds and other trust funds now get rolled into the general budget construct and can be used to finance non-SS-related activities are the main problems with the program. It's no different than corporations who deliberately fail to fully fund their pension obligations.

2. Greedy bankers are the sole cause of the housing bubble and its bursting;

Bankers do not a bubble make by themselves. That said, make no mistake that it was collusion and corruption from bottom-to-top of the major mortgage-related banking, derivative, and underwriting players which fueled the bubble and bust and they're still scamming relentlessly in the ruins.

3. We can build a high speed rail in California and still spend the money we want to spend elsewhere;

There is not the political will to build high-speed rail where it could be useful, but we look like complete luddite chumps next to the rest of the industrial world if we don't build one somewhere; hence the train to nowhere.

4. Regulation protects the public, but not the regulated;

"corporations without government oversight are indistinguishable from organized crime"

5. The cost of environmental protection or reduction of carbon emissions can be ignored. It's only the greedy businesses that care about it anyway;

No, and those costs could easily be managed if it weren't for entrenched interests deadset against any rational plan to do so.

6. Public transportation pays for itself;

The fight against public transportation, particularly in Cali, has a long and storied history and is still very much alive today.

7. MSNBC, Democracy Now! and ABC, CBS and NBC give unbiased and accurate news reporting;

Way better than Fox.

8. Free trade only helps the rich, and only hurts ordinary people;

Unbridled 'free trade' is a disaster for all but a small minority.

9. The government spends most of its money on the military (Sorry Bob. Social Security and Medicare don't "generate tax revenue." They just have tax revenue earmarked to fund a portion of their expenses);

Slightly more than half of discretionary spending is on the military and that budget is grossly out-of-whack with geo-political reality, drives military adventurism, and is mis-managed in the extreme. So little faith in government and so much faith in the military - now that is irony.

10. We don't need to worry about public employee pension liabilities. If we just tax "the rich" a little more, we can pay for it all; and

Public and private pensions are a gross liability, particularly for old guard private companies. That we don't have decent universal retirement and healthcare programs on a national basis and so relieve our public and private institutions of those burdens is both ignorant and only hurts us comparatively.

11. The only way to get more is to take it from somebody else, i.e. the economy is a zero-sum game.

If you can't read the graphs of the decline in corporate taxes as a percentage of federal receipts or the obscene concentration of wealth or the skewed top-to-bottom pay ratios since WWII then there isn't much point in even discussing the matter let alone rational solutions.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 2, 2015 - 05:50pm PT
I was in no mood to argue with him and so I just told him that he really did not need to go to the voting booth because he could count of me canceling his vote out each time.

Wowwwww.... So you bag on the old, white guy Republican for ALWAYS voting Republican. Then you tell him that your vote will ALWAYS cancel his out.

I snorted a bit of coffee out of my nose when I read that. Good one!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 2, 2015 - 05:54pm PT
Unbridled 'free trade' is a disaster for all but a small minority.

Is that a direct quote from The Daily Worker? What's Craigslist or Ebay if
they're not 'free trade'?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 2, 2015 - 05:59pm PT
Reilly, 'trade' in the context of 'free trade' refers to international trade between nations.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 2, 2015 - 06:02pm PT
Reilly...ebay isn't free trade. :-)


John's points to me are vague. ie... We don't need to worry about public employee pension liabilities. If we just tax "the rich" a little more, we can pay for it all; and this one...
The only way to get more is to take it from somebody else, i.e. the economy is a zero-sum game.

I call bullshit on them. :-)



There are specific reasons why I lean democrat/left and have no problem saying what they are.

John is throwing up smoke and mirrors and I tend to believe he is really embarrassed by the current republicans leaders/party.
Norton

Social climber
Sep 2, 2015 - 06:28pm PT
Wowwwww.... So you bag on the old, white guy Republican for ALWAYS voting Republican. Then you tell him that your vote will ALWAYS cancel his out.

I snorted a bit of coffee out of my nose when I read that. Good one!

woweee, well Madbolter it is only the shallowness of your intellect that limited you to not
seeing the irony behind what I told him

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 2, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
LOL... it is only the shallowness of your intellect that makes you unable to detect that the irony is what made me snort coffee out of my nose.

;-)

Sorry... too many layers for you, I think.

Carry on.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Sep 2, 2015 - 07:13pm PT
Norton, I'll respond in this way...

John makes good arguments with the occasional false premise and faulty conclusion. He's a master at false equivalence. Case in point: media bias. His rationale is, yes, Fox, is bias, but so are the other media outlets, so it all balances out. He's wrong. First, conservatives get their information from a single source, Fox, in vastly larger numbers than any one news source used by the left. If he is asserting that Fox's misinformation is in any way comparable to network news coverage, well, he's delusional. He just isn't paying attention. ABC, NBC, and CBS give mostly accurate, unbiased news. I don't expect a Republican to agree, of course, for obvious reasons. What else...public transportation paying for itself? Who cares? What, he wants more freeway lanes? Ridiculous. Greedy bankers the cause of the housing bubble collapse, Great Recession?...not all, just mostly, they needed dumb politicians to help them deregulate.
A few of his other points I agree with, in part.

Look, if you study history you know that "big change" mostly doesn't happen. Not in our system. You need a situation where a president has a supermajority in both house of congress, like LBJ had it '65 -'67, one of the most productive congresses in modern time.

What you should be looking for in a president given the county we have today is someone who is going to inch the ball forward in your direction on the issues important to you. Emphasis on "inch".

For me, that's Hillary, or Biden, if he runs (he shouldn't). I'd like a president who believes that humans are contributing to climate change, not someone who denies its even happening.

John sounds like a Kasich or Rubio kind of fella. Lots of worse choices.

And Trump...he appeals to anxious, white conservatives. Not enough of those, thankfully, to give him the nomination.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Sep 2, 2015 - 08:47pm PT
John sounds as if he defends the 1%.

Fairness is my issue,not hate[he said that].

Just the same from the echo chamber.

He is representing the opinion of 4 million people.

Hardly a majority,in a country of 400 million.

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Sep 2, 2015 - 08:54pm PT
8. Free trade only helps the rich, and only hurts ordinary people;

Unbridled 'free trade' is a disaster for all but a small minority.

People who dis "free trade" tend to forget that America is an exporting nation. They want Americans to stop buying things that are made somewhere else, but want people from elsewhere to keep buying things made in America.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 2, 2015 - 10:57pm PT
No one got rich cutting cheques for work done out of the goodness of their heart...

Obviously true!

Yet somehow liberals think that when the government forces people to cut checks to other people, in exchange for NO goods nor services, thereby literally keeping the check-cutters down, that's not only a good thing but downright noble!

Under Obumblecare, my company's group health insurance went up 40.02% overnight, and not one SHRED of actual REFORM took place from thousands and thousands of pages of law. The insurance companies still rape us, and now even more so. The practice of medicine is obscenely expensive, and it doesn't have to be so. Fraud and abuse are rampant, and nothing is done to enforce even the relatively little regulation there is in the industry. And all of this has REAL and immediate effects....

Because we pay for 100% of our employees' health insurance, that increase literally meant that we could not make a hire we intended to.

So, that forced redistribution of OUR money directly into the hands of others, in exchange for NO benefit to ourselves, meant that one "poor person with no job," that therefore (so the story goes) could not afford health insurance (although, somehow, (s)he can afford a big-screen TV via credit card), doesn't GET a job because we now can't afford the hire we WOULD have made otherwise.

So, we grow more slowly, which has sweeping economic considerations with ripple effects. And how MANY other small businesses were put in the same position?

Such theft is NOT noble, and it's not even good. Of course, you, Jim, being from Canada, think that socialized medicine is the best thing since sliced bread, so there's no getting it through your head that in the United States we once believed in private property.

By contrast, you liberals honestly believe that it is not REALLY possible to OWN anything! You always think (at least in the backs of your minds) that we all LEASE what we "own" from the government, such that if the government masterminds conclude that they want to redistribute some of what we're LEASING from them, that's entirely their call, and we shouldn't even imagine to complain because only a selfish a-hole would complain about surrendering what's not REALLY his to give in the first place.

So, Trump's an a-hole because he's rich and therefore doesn't have a good heart. I guess that something like that is the song and dance.

He might well be a terrible person, certainly no worse than the Hillabeast, But at least he believes in private property, which is a FAR cry from the liberal mantra that just kept my company from hiring, literally took money out of our pockets personally, and literally believes in robbing Peter to pay Paul.

With the increasing number of Paul's, I'm confident that the libs will keep gaining ground, because when you rob Peter to pay Paul, you will always have the support of Paul (and his ever-expanding family). Problem is, with a diminishing supply of Peters, good luck paying Paul.

Cut military spending in half (at least), quit engaging in what are really wars of conquest and ridiculous, inconsistent "police actions," quit redistributing what is MINE to other people whereby I am paying for NO goods nor services, and eliminate income tax and property tax (to be replaced by sales taxes), and you BEGIN to return to the America I've believed in.

Will Trump even attempt to accomplish any of that? Doubtful. Will the Hillabeast? Certainly not! Neither His Hairness nor the Hillabeast give a rat's hindquarters about any of us.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 2, 2015 - 11:39pm PT
Under Obumblecare, my company's group health insurance went up 40.02% overnight, and not one SHRED of actual REFORM took place from thousands and thousands of pages of law.

Where did that money go?

Those reforms that you didn't get?

-free preventive care
-elimination of pre-existing conditions
-elimination of cap on payments

Into whose pockets did the money go?

By the way, how much did the company and it's employees give to defeat this, and support the other side? Sounds like you had too much money, anyway.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 2, 2015 - 11:53pm PT
Under Obumblecare, my company's group health insurance went up 40.02% overnight, and not one SHRED of actual REFORM took place from thousands and thousands of pages of law. The insurance companies still rape us, and now even more so. The practice of medicine is obscenely expensive, and it doesn't have to be so. Fraud and abuse are rampant, and nothing is done to enforce even the relatively little regulation there is in the industry.

Illinois is a big insurance state and it was clear from day one Obama was in their pocket. Anyone with half a clue knew upfront that any 'healthcare' reform done by his administration was going to be a mockery which left the insurance industry and profit driving basic healthcare. The solution is simple - basic, universal healthcare should be available to all citizens with public and private institutions relieved of that burden. Go to any doctor or hospital you want, but all premiums and claims go through a single clearinghouse with industry would be free to engage private insurers for policies above and beyond that universal level of care to incentivize employees. Individuals would likewise be free to buy additional coverage.

But so long as we load individuals and institutions with the burden of basic healthcare and leave all but very wealthy families a single catastrophic health crisis from ruin, then we fail comparatively as a nation and squelch our potential no differently than the insanity of treating college students as debt mules measured solely for the load they can carry.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 3, 2015 - 06:28am PT
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/09/obamacares-cost-is-falling-as-fewer-receive-coverage-under-health-care-law-cbo-says/


http://www.factcheck.org/2014/11/the-great-premium-debate-continues/
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 3, 2015 - 07:30am PT
JohnE...http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/feb/26/fact-checks-behind-daily-shows-50-fox-news-lies/


:-)
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 3, 2015 - 07:34am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Sep 3, 2015 - 07:40am PT
Reilly - ever get a bill from ebay at the end of a selling month? it's anything but free ;-)
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 3, 2015 - 07:45am PT
http://www.mintpressnews.com/pants-on-fire-analysis-shows-60-of-fox-news-facts-are-really-lies/205563/


http://www.forwardprogressives.com/fact-checking-site-finds-fox-news-tells-truth-18-percent-time/

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/01/27/politifact-updates-data-on-news-sources-finds-fox-news-lies-even-more-than-before/
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 3, 2015 - 07:48am PT
Nature, I'll have to take yer word on that.

As to you others who don't think international trade should be tariff-free I will say this:

DON'T HAZE ME, BRO!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 3, 2015 - 07:50am PT
I gets my news from YouTube!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 3, 2015 - 08:04am PT
I get my news from ST. :-)
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Sep 3, 2015 - 08:13am PT
All those pie charts a couple of pages back.

In not one did I see a label for the black budget.
You know it's there, don't you?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 3, 2015 - 08:33am PT
Where did that money go?

Got me. Increases in Medicaid by the millions?

It SURE didn't go toward purchasing anything of value for us or other small businesses in our group, ALL of whom saw overnight and radical cost increases.

Those reforms that you didn't get?

Right. Exactly....

-free preventive care -- Nope! Had it already, as we were doing right by our employees and had purchased a very high-end plan. The cost increase didn't purchase THIS for us.

-elimination of pre-existing conditions -- Nope! Already had it. One of our employees has a serious condition, so we purchased a plan that had no such limitation for any employee. You know, doing right by our employees.

-elimination of cap on payments -- Nope! Already had it. See above.

We are a company that wasn't nickel and diming anybody, just doing the right thing. Obumblecare didn't reform the INDUSTRY! It just handed all of us to the insurance companies on a silver platter, while costing my company much, much more!

Into whose pockets did the money go?

Apparently, according to the law's designers, into subsidizing the "poor" who couldn't otherwise afford even minimal premiums. Oh, and insurance company's profits.

The increase purchased NOTHING of value for us. We simply pay more "because we can," without ANY reform of the industry nor benefit to us. THAT's the liberal mentality, and we are a case study in its baleful results.

By the way, how much did the company and it's employees give to defeat this, and support the other side?

Not a dime. We don't mix company business with politics.

Our broker had assured us that small business premiums would not increase. He was telling hundreds of his small business clients this. He told me flat out that he almost went out of business himself due to the loss of many clients who were outraged and found themselves shopping the exchanges anyway.

Sounds like you had too much money, anyway.

And there it is, the liberal mindset in full bloom.

As I said above, you liberals literally do not believe in private property. You believe that ALL property really belongs to "the collective," to be distributed and redistributed according to the whims of "the majority." Meanwhile, you assure that "the majority" is an ever-growing mass of the "huddled poor" who will perpetually vote themselves handouts.

The cost increase in company healthcare was SUBSTANTIAL. That was OUR money that could have gone into any number of worthy things, ranging from hiring another employee (our plan) to putting some small profit into the hands of the partners who actually do deserve it!

But the masterminds decided that OUR money was not really ours, that it must go into the hands of other people, with us purchasing NOT ONE BIT of benefit. Even if the partners had decided to pocket the money as profit, that was their RIGHT as OWNERS (the concept you can't get your mind around). Instead, you seem content with the idea that OUR partners don't get the money; instead the insurance companies get the money. So, on your model of thinking, WE had "too much," but apparently the insurance companies didn't have enough. So, this legalized THEFT is all good in your mind.

ABSURD!

So, yeah, if there's a snowball's chance in hell that His Hairness will "nudge things an inch" down the road toward a return to the notion of genuine PRIVATE PROPERTY, he'll have my vote over the Hillabeast! And that's not because I'm "right wing." It's because I'm SICK of all you liberal masterminds trying to decide WHO has "too much money" and WHO has "too little," as you play some sick Robin Hood game with MY money. Yeah, MINE, because I believe in OWNERSHIP.

I'll laugh in your faces at accusations of "selfishness." If I decided that YOU had "too much TV set" compared to me, so I TOOK it from you, you would be JUST as "selfish" about that theft. But somehow, when it's "all of us" deciding that certain people have "too much money," you are VERY content to abandon that "principle" you think protects your TV set from ME, as you rush to accuse good people just like me of "selfishness" for not wanting GOVERNMENT to do the EXACT same thing to me that my theft of your TV set does to you.

Passing a law doesn't make it legal nor right! Despite the absurdity of our SCOTUS on this front, the constitution is clear about property rights, and when you STEAL from me to give directly to somebody else, and that expenditure purchases NOTHING for me, that is theft plain and simple, whether YOU or YOUR government do it.

THIS is the great divide in this nation today: Those who insist on playing Robin Hood with other people's money vs. those who maintain a robust notion of property rights. You can doctor it up any way you want to feel better about yourselves. But Obumblecare was THE liberal thought-experiment played out in real life, and it accomplished NOTHING for us but to cost us 40.02% more overnight. And the liberal justification is immediately on display: "You had too much money."

Goooo, His Hairness!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 3, 2015 - 09:18am PT
Madbolter....your rage is directed at the wrong people...http://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2014/03/14/where-is-the-outrage-over-corporate-welfare/


Also...your insurance company nailed you, not Obama.


Keep blaming the poor.

Also...the origins of the ACA.. http://americablog.com/2013/10/original-1989-document-heritage-foundation-created-obamacares-individual-mandate.html
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 3, 2015 - 09:49am PT

Bob D, maybe you can convince Trump to buy Hillary's emails. It is reported that a hacker has them all and they are for sale to the highest bidder starting at $500,000.00 http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/hillary-clinton-hacked-emails-sale/


The seller better cut a deal quick and disappear before he gets the Vince Foster treatment.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 3, 2015 - 09:55am PT
TGT, it's pathetic that you believe that stupid right wing propaganda.

It says a lot about your critical thinking skills.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 3, 2015 - 10:51am PT
It is really sad to see the constant bashing of the poor from the so called Christians in this country.


Go Donald... just another little rich kid who played with daddy money.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/09/03/if-donald-trump-followed-this-really-basic-advice-hed-be-a-lot-richer/


What a piece of slime.
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 3, 2015 - 11:26am PT
She's been ordered to jail.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 3, 2015 - 11:36am PT
I nominate her as the new poster child for

'If you work for the gubmint you can't be fired for refusing to do yer job Society'
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 3, 2015 - 12:20pm PT
Thank you Norton for your kind words (and also Fritz and Gary, whose comments from a couple of days ago I just now read), and also big thanks to Bob D'A, crankster, wilbeer, and especially to healyje, for taking the time to respond so thoroughly. Sorry if I forgot to mention anyone else. The size of the response surprised me.

I suspect I was a bit muddled in explaining my points, so I'll try again. I don't think that all, or ever most, supporters of the Democrats believe all or any of the 11 fallacies I listed, but I think some believe at least one, and a few may believe them all. My only point was that the Republicans have no monopoly on supporters who believe falsehoods.

That's why I intentionally overgeneralized in a way I hoped would be open and notorious. For example, I stated as a false belief "Free trade only helps the rich, and only hurts ordinary people." I think most Democrats know that trade issues have much greater complexity, but there are some who reflexively oppose international trade because they really believe what I stated.

We even see some of that sort of behavior on ST, believe it or not! Check out the old global warming thread that k-man started, and you'll see those whose response to the scientific evidence they don't like is that it's all a hoax to generate more research dollars for climate scientists. Or look at the fracking thread. When BASE104 provides scientific references, those opposed refuse to consider it because they know that fracking is bad. You get the same sorts of things with GMO's, or even organic food.

A glance at the letters to the editor in todays Fresno Bee inspired that last tirade, by the way. A letter writer from artsy-craftsy Three Rivers wrote that anyone opposed to localizing agriculture was a shill for big business. Really? In a valley whose agricultural production thrived because specialization is productive?

As I said, no one viewpoint has a monopoly on people who support that viewpoint for crazy reasons. Still, Bob D'A makes a great point: You can get a lot of good news on ST, and it's probably more accurate than that on any broadcast medium!

;>)

John
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Sep 3, 2015 - 12:22pm PT
I nominate her as the new poster child for

'If you work for the gubmint you can't be fired for refusing to do yer job Society'

She's elected and can't be fired, only impeached.

John, you're right about the news on ST.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 3, 2015 - 12:38pm PT
She's elected? Who nominated her, Jenny Craig?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Sep 3, 2015 - 12:50pm PT
She's now in jail where she belongs for contempt.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 3, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
I think the hairstyle was enough to land her in the slammer.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 3, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
While a county clerk should be savvy enough to know she must follow a court order, there is some evidence that her attorney is giving her bad advice not to follow it. Her attorney has an axe to grind, and might be sacrificing his client to make a point.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/08/31/kim_davis_and_the_liberty_counsel_anti_gay_group_is_bad_news.html
monolith

climber
state of being
Sep 3, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
Looks like she won't go to jail, as long as her deputies follow the law. One of the deputies is her son.
Norton

Social climber
Sep 3, 2015 - 01:23pm PT
John said:

Check out the old global warming thread that k-man started, and you'll see those whose response to the scientific evidence they don't like is that it's all a hoax to generate more research dollars for climate scientists. Or look at the fracking thread. When BASE104 provides scientific references, those opposed refuse to consider it because they know that fracking is bad

very good point

John, before I get into offering you more of response to your points, can you tell me why
you picked Social Security as an issue that you felt Democrats acted stupidly on?

I don't get that one, yes SS was created in 1938 under a Democratic President Roosevelt
and championed primarily with Democratic legislative support, and the future solvency of SS is excellent, with over a trillion in a trust fund in reserve and very, very, very easy fixed to insure its ability to pay out 100% long after some 20 year from now.

But again John, what does all this SS business have to do with your using it as an example of stupid Democratic voters, as part of your response to the recent wave of examples of embarrassingly stupid Republican voter?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Sep 3, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
Madbolter and JE...... thanks for the postings.

Spot on.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 3, 2015 - 01:42pm PT
Norton, I'm not saying Democrats generally are stupid on Social Security. I'm saying that some Democrat supporters don't believe that Social Security is actuarily insolvent. I offered the moveon.org example as evidence. To me, it's stupid to say that only paying 70% of what you owe is no problem.

I think most Democrats, like most Republicans, are painfully aware of the actuarial insolvency of Social Security. We just differ as to how to fix it (for example, Craig says there's no problem extracting a bit more from the rich wouldn't solve. Exiled Jeff says there's no problem means testing wouldn't solve. I say a slight delay in eligibility would solve the problem, but all three of us agree that the more we delay, the bigger the problem).

I also happen to think that many people understand no more about Social Security than they do about a bank account. In particular, several raise a concern that revenue from FICA goes to pay general governmental expenses. They haven't considered that if the funds get locked away, they earn nothing, and U.S. government securities still remain one of the most risk-free investments available.

Again, I'm not saying that the Democrats' policies are necessarily stupid. I'm just syaing that some supporters of the Democrats believe some rather outlandish things.

John
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 3, 2015 - 01:50pm PT
She's now in jail where she belongs for contempt.

Putting someone in jail for not doing her job seems a bit heavy handed--if that were the normal way we did things, Hillary would be running her campaign from a prison cell!
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 3, 2015 - 01:53pm PT
blahblah, normally a worker who refuses to do her job loses her job. If she resigned from office, or maybe even recused herself and let others in the office issue the license, no contempt would lie. Slavery is still illegal; no one can force her to work. It does not follow, however, that she can keep her job without doing her work. She refuses to leave office, and refuses to obey a court order. I don't know any competent lawyer that would expect anything other than a contempt citation for his or her client in that circumstance.

John
dirtbag

climber
Sep 3, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
She might be getting some very bad legal advice, too.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 3, 2015 - 02:21pm PT
John, you may be right, but it's not self-evident why the judge believed that putting her in jail rather than fining her (such as an amount equal to her salary) was an appropriate order.
Seems like the type of whacky thing that, if done in a third world country, we'd use as evidence of backwardness and lawlessness.

If a judge has the power to put a an official in jail when the judge decides the official isn't doing her job, but not to remove the official from office, we might want to rethink how judges get the powers they do, and consider restructuring them on this point.

Here's an analogy:
Obama decided that he wouldn't enforce many aspects of Obama care.
Why shouldn't a judge put Obama in jail for not following the law?
What if a a Republican gets elected and decides he won't bother to collect taxes from the top 1% of earners, as he decides they've already paid their fair share and need a break?
Seems that we're going to need to build a lot more prisons, or maybe just start with welding shut the White House gates (once we've got Obama inside) until Jan. 2017!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 3, 2015 - 02:21pm PT
Putting someone in jail for not doing her job seems a bit heavy handed

That's willfully obtuse.

She wasn't jailed for "not doing her job", she was jailed for failure to comply with a legal court order.

U.S. District Judge David Bunning said Thursday that Davis would be held in jail until she complied with the previous court orders.

“The court cannot condone the willful disobedience of its lawfully issued order,” Judge Bunning said

I think is is VERY clear why simply fining her would not compel her to obey the court order...the wingnut welfare machine would crank up and make "donations" to her, just like the gay-hating pizza parlor clowns who ginned their manufactured controvery into hundreds of thousands in money from FAux News outrage machine rubes. When she could milk the situation into not obeying the order, and likely receiving more in donations than her salary would have been anyway, while still denying people their equal protection under the law, jail is the answer.

F*#k that crazy bitch, she can rot in the slammer from now on. Marriage is so special to her, she's had four of them.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 3, 2015 - 02:25pm PT
Uncle Joe gets off script.

Barry's gonna have to put a muzzle on him again.


[Click to View YouTube Video]

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 3, 2015 - 02:33pm PT
...and threaten our friends in an existential way...

Whoa! Nice goin', Joe, now look what you've done! I bet ISIS hadn't
thought of bringing the Saudis to their knees using weapons of mass
Hegelian destruction! Too bad you Kant take that back!

(I liked the lady next to him fiddling with her hair and saying to herself,
"Self, WTF is he on about?")
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 3, 2015 - 02:50pm PT
I looked into this a little more, below is an excerpt from the CNN story.
Seems that not even the ACLU was arguing for the clerk to be put in jail, but rather just for her to be financially penalized (consistent with what I wrote in an earlier post).

Now here's a question for the ST legal experts:
why didn't the judge just issue an order banning her from the clerks' office, so that she couldn't interfere with the issuance of the marriage licenses by the deputy clerks?
Shouldn't people only be put in jail when there are no other satisfactory alternatives? What does putting her in jail accomplish that simply banning her from the premises wouldn't?


Rowan County, Kentucky, clerk Kim Davis was given a second chance: She didn't have to issue same-sex marriage licenses herself; she merely had to agree not to interfere with five deputy clerks who had told the federal judge they'd issue them in her stead.

But Davis' lawyer told U.S. District Judge David Bunning that his client would not allow her deputies to issue the licenses. Davis was not in the courtroom for the second session. She was in a hallway outside.

"We cannot represent to the court that she would allow licenses to be issued," attorney Mat Staver said.

Earlier Thursday, Bunning remanded Davis into the custody of U.S. marshals for refusing to heed a U.S. Supreme Court order legalizing same-sex marriage, saying she would remain in jail until she complies with the ruling.

Bunning then asked Davis' six deputy clerks whether they would issue the licenses, and despite some of them holding the same religious beliefs as Davis, five told Bunning they would issue the licenses.

During Davis' hearing, April Miller told the court that the clerk had denied her a marriage license three times, and when Davis took the stand to deliver her at-times emotional testimony, she explained that she could not issue the licenses because of her religious beliefs.

"You can't be separated from something that's in your heart and in your soul," she told the judge, according to CNN affiliate WYMT-TV.

American Civil liberties Union attorneys argued in a motion filed Monday that Davis "continues to collect compensation from the Commonwealth for duties she fails to perform."

They said they didn't want her to be jailed as punishment, but rather, the attorneys asked the court to "impose financial penalties sufficiently serious and increasingly onerous" to make her comply with the court order.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 3, 2015 - 05:46pm PT
Trump is a fuking CLOWN and anyone that is in support of that SH!Tbag is a fool...

SO true.

Of course, exactly the same can (accurately) be said about the Hillabeast.

Bernie's comin' on strong. Go Bernie!

Now a Ben/Bernie election.... Wouldn't that be something to see?
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Sep 3, 2015 - 06:07pm PT
Now here's a question for the ST legal experts:
why didn't the judge just issue an order banning her from the clerks' office, so that she couldn't interfere with the issuance of the marriage licenses by the deputy clerks?
Shouldn't people only be put in jail when there are no other satisfactory alternatives? What does putting her in jail accomplish that simply banning her from the premises wouldn't?

She's an elected official. She can't be banned. She can be jailed for contempt of court. If you'd read the articles, the judge stated he did not feel fines would work.

She should resign, but she's probably looking forward to a financial windfall.
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Sep 3, 2015 - 06:07pm PT
the one thing you all fail to see in this is the fodder for the late-night comedians!

I bet they all vote Trump just for the resource...
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 3, 2015 - 06:33pm PT

why is he pleading the fifth?
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Sep 3, 2015 - 06:50pm PT
Why are you drinking one???...

Been awhile since you were on the juice, huh? They don't make fifths anymore.
Tan Slacks

climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 3, 2015 - 07:44pm PT
His time is coming to an end, I can feel it. A few more interviews like this and farewell.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/09/03/donald-trump-just-tripped-up-on-the-air-over-foreign-policy-again-and-again/?tid=pm_pop_b

"Trump hasn't seen the last of Hewitt. He is slated to ask questions at the second Republican debate later this month.

"At the debate, I may bring up Nasrallah being with Hezbollah, and al-Julani being with al-Nusra, and al-Masri being with Hamas. Do you think if I ask people to talk about those three things, and the differences, that that’s a gotcha question?" asked Hewitt.

"Yes, I do. I totally do. I think it’s ridiculous," Trump responded."
dirtbag

climber
Sep 3, 2015 - 07:51pm PT
I dunno.

I thought the remarks about McCain's service would do it.

Then I thought the debate answer where he defended his insults about women would do it.

Then I thought implying that Megan Kelly was on her period during the debate would do it.

But he's still very much alive. His comb over must have magic powers.
Norton

Social climber
Sep 3, 2015 - 07:52pm PT
John E,

can I invite you to continue our conversation but off the forum and by email?

you can reply to

kahrcw9 @ gmail.com

John

edit:
in the future why don't you look up, know the facts, prior to shooting your mouth off?
(not directed at John E) but to the Idiot Wind who knows who he is

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Sep 3, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
i find it pleasing
to watch the republicans
kill their white house chances
this early.

good theatre, but
astonishingly devoid of substance.

3 terms of democratic presidents.

that's a good run,
ladies and gentlemen.

a good run indeed.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Sep 3, 2015 - 09:14pm PT
Norway Man is smart.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 4, 2015 - 06:37am PT
his comb over has magic

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 4, 2015 - 06:46am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Love these girls
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Sep 4, 2015 - 07:11am PT
agreed on that one dirtbag.

his numbers will not change. Those that are behind him now will remain. The reason he's in the lead is because of the split among the rest of the candidates. Once they start dropping like flies Trump will get trumped.

On the other hand I could only hope for a Trump ticket. That would solidify a democrat as the next president. Pressed on issues there is no way Trump can compete. He won't be faced with that in the primaries since the right has no interest in discussing pressing issues like global climate change, Once actual issues are discussed this turd is done.

#feelthebern
dirtbag

climber
Sep 4, 2015 - 07:13am PT
The unemployment rate dropped to 5.1%.

Obama haters still gonna hate.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Sep 4, 2015 - 07:15am PT
no no... they just changed how they calculate unemployment. They are much more liberal with the numbers since Obummer took over. just ask a hater.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 4, 2015 - 07:19am PT
Yep, the books are cooked. The formula Obama used is on Hilary's email server.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Sep 4, 2015 - 07:46am PT
cooked books
and media fireworks -
all fleeting theatre.

the simple and enduring
truth is this:

Obama will go down in
lasting history as
one of America's
greatest presidents.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 07:46am PT
The really sickening part about this current bunch of republicans is their disdain for the average working American and the poor.


Yes he will Nor.


Plus he is one cool man.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-alaska-yupik-dance-video_55e881dde4b0b7a9633c322b
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 4, 2015 - 07:53am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Sep 4, 2015 - 08:03am PT
Hi Jody,

Welcome back to the pigpen.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Sep 4, 2015 - 08:06am PT
Welcome back to the pigpen.

LOL, that is funny
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 08:07am PT
Bullshit Jody and you know it.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 08:51am PT
Healthcare, increase wages, education, worker rights, equal pay, gay rights in the workplace, unions and so on.


Back up your statement.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 4, 2015 - 09:29am PT
Sadly, his position on the Iran deal makes much more sense the toughest tough guy positions his rivals are taking:

“I think that it is a disastrous deal in so many ways…we have a horrible contract. But we do have a contract. I love to buy bad contracts when people go bust and I make those contracts good….
“I know it would be very popular for me to do what a couple of them said, ‘we’re gonna rip it up, we’re gonna rip it up.’…
“Iran is gonna be an absolute terror, and it’s horrible that we have to live with it. Nevertheless, we have a contract. We lost the power of sanctions because all of these other folks, these other countries that are with us are gone now, and by the way, making money…everybody is involved now with Iran selling themselves. We’re probably going to be the only ones that won’t be selling them anything….
“I will make that agreement so tough. And if they break it, they will have hell to pay….Politically, and certainly for the nomination, I would love to tell you that I’m gonna rip up this contract, I’m going to be the toughest guy in the world. But you know what? Life doesn’t work that way.”
Norton

Social climber
Sep 4, 2015 - 09:52am PT
well Jody, what about all that legislation the Democrats passed that directly benefit the middle class in America?


please respond cutting it all down, show that you are not the uninformed and more importantly misinformed boob that you come across as
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 4, 2015 - 09:54am PT
show that you are not the uninformed and more importantly misinformed boob that you come across as

Evidently, Norton doesn't like the competition....
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 11:10am PT
Why can't Trump supporters just be honest...http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/09/gop-doesnt-have-donald-trump-problem


A certain part of the republican party has been craving for this for a long time.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 4, 2015 - 01:07pm PT
No. But the Dems have to give GW credit for that. They blame him for the bad still, they have to give him credit for the good.

Hmmm. Okay, I think that is fair. What is it, exactly, that GW Bush did that resulted in this recovery? I think he has been out of any influence for 8 years.

Are you speaking of the massive bailout of Wall Street, that his admin was responsible for? Are you taking credit for the good of that, now?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Goldenville west of Lurkerville
Sep 4, 2015 - 01:31pm PT
Bob...good article which in a nutshell says Trump voters are angry and living in a fact-free world...Must explain their beliefs that Obama wasn't born in the USA...? How is America suppose to return to its' former greatnest when most of the voters supporting Trump live in an intellectual void...?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 4, 2015 - 01:39pm PT
Are you speaking of the massive bailout of Wall Street, that his admin was responsible for? Are you taking credit for the good of that, now?

That one is a very complicated bag!

Had no bailout occurred, it is my belief that the resulting paroxysm would have been profoundly painful but much healthier in the long run. However, Bush et al chose to kick the can down the road, and they had a LOT of help from the fed in making that decision. Always keep in mind that the fed doesn't give a rat's hindquarters about we the people, the government itself, or anything other than money and control. It does NOT work for us, nor is it accountable to us, in ANY sense!

Had Bush et al gone for the healthier short-term pain, the blame-game would have been epic, a true political nightmare of unprecedented proportions. Bush et al had no will (nor intelligence) to bite that bullet. The Obumbalator would have done no better, nor would have the Hillabeast (witness her voting for all of the corporate bailouts, as well as the war in Iraq and the police state that is the NSA and TSA, etc.).

So, ANYBODY trying to do the right thing would have been buried by electorate outrage at the pain. And anybody making the call that Bush made would now get eviscerated for NOT doing the right thing, just as Bush (rightly) does.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 4, 2015 - 01:41pm PT
Here, let me fix that for you....

"How is America suppose to return to its former greatness when most of the voters live in an intellectual void?"

Ahhh, yes, much more accurate now!

dirtbag

climber
Sep 4, 2015 - 01:58pm PT
Had no bailout occurred, it is my belief that the resulting paroxysm would have been profoundly painful but much healthier in the long run. However, Bush et al chose to kick the can down the road, and they had a LOT of help from the fed in making that decision. Always keep in mind that the fed doesn't give a rat's hindquarters about we the people, the government itself, or anything other than money and control. It does NOT work for us, nor is it accountable to us, in ANY sense!


By most accounts we were headed towards a depression. I actually give Bush credit for biting the ugly bullet and bailing them out.

Keep in mind, the last time there was a depression, the conditions were created for the rise of nazi Germany's and WWW II. A depression is nothing to f*#k around with.

What makes you so confident the effects would have been short term?
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 4, 2015 - 02:04pm PT
What are you talking about Jody?

I have 5 employees and keep about 20 subcontractors busy year round and all is quite rosy, actually.

Regs, rules and laws keep it clean and weed out the week.

Have you ever filed a corporate, itemized tax return- Jody. Perhaps you have...but please don't speak for me (small businesses owner).

I think it's more likely that you are a rank and file member of the Tea Party, regurgitating the same old RNC talking points and unwittingly pushing the Trojan Hoarse for the 1%.

Say hi to Clivin Bundy for me (again).
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 02:08pm PT
Jody wrote: Increased Wages: Middle class income is at lowest point since the 70's, dropping nearly $3,000/year under Obama.

Equal Pay: He says a lot, does little. Female staffers in WH avg $78,400/year. Male staffers average 88,600/year.

The unemployment rate has "fallen" because the govt has quit counting large segments of the unemployed in their stats. There are also fewer full time jobs...most people getting jobs are NOT getting full time work.

Higher minimum wage mandates cut back on opportunities for people entering the workforce and contribute to inflation. Not sure why minimum wage needs to be so high. It was never meant to be a living wage. It was meant for those at the bottom rung of the workforce ladder and if they want a "living wage" they needed to work hard and move up, promote, etc. If the Dems truly meant what they say when they espouse a "living wage", then in CA they better jack it up to at least $30/hour.


Hilarious response. Keep trying Jody.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 02:15pm PT
Jody...https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/29/president-obama-raises-the-overtime-salary-threshold-reestablishing-a-key-labor-standard/

"Higher minimum wage mandates cut back on opportunities for people entering the workforce and contribute to inflation. Not sure why minimum wage needs to be so high.

Bullshit and when doesn't inflation occur?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 02:20pm PT
"Have you ever filed a corporate, itemized tax return- Jody. Perhaps you have...but please don't speak for me (small businesses owner)."


Jody is a cop, has a union to protect him, fight for his raises and gets him benefits.

They might even file his taxes for him. :-)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 4, 2015 - 02:21pm PT
My bro was really happy when he signed up for Obamacare at the getgo.
Oowee, don't get him started now; he ain't a happy camper.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 4, 2015 - 02:23pm PT
See Jody, Bob thought about this, then came to a reasonable conclusion without swinging a stick at straw men or low hanging fruit.





Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 02:29pm PT
Jody wrote: Increased Wages: Middle class income is at lowest point since the 70's, dropping nearly $3,000/year under Obama.

Are you saying in six years wages have gone down $18,000 dollars?
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 4, 2015 - 02:30pm PT
Yeah, thanks for confirming my suspicion Bob. Haven't been on ST much but the dots are pretty easy to connect in regards to Jody.

Being called an idiot lured me into this mess...thanks Jody!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 02:40pm PT
Jody is a tea party hack stuck in a socialist job. Must be a little confusing for him.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 4, 2015 - 02:44pm PT
Bob, would you care to cite some authority for the proposition that higher minimum wages do not decrease employment at entry-level positions? There is a great deal of economic and particularly econometric literature that concludes the opposite.

John
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 02:48pm PT
JohnE..."In a letter to President Obama and congressional leaders urging a minimum wage increase, more than 600 economists, including 7 Nobel Prize winners wrote, "In recent years there have been important developments in the academic literature on the effect of increases in the minimum wage on employment, with the weight of evidence now showing that increases in the minimum wage have had little or no negative effect on the employment of minimum-wage workers, even during times of weakness in the labor market. Research suggests that a minimum-wage increase could have a small stimulative effect on the economy as low-wage workers spend their additional earnings, raising demand and job growth, and providing some help on the jobs front."


http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm


The ball is your court John.


Didn't see your name on the letter John. :-)

http://www.epi.org/minimum-wage-statement/


rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Goldenville west of Lurkerville
Sep 4, 2015 - 02:58pm PT
Madbolter...Stop editing my posts...Dammit...!
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 4, 2015 - 03:08pm PT
I'm familiar with that letter, and with some of the economists who signed it. The list includes at least one "9/11 truther." More importantly, I get solicited for letters of that sort all the time, because I am a member of the American Economic Association. I could add my name to any number of letters from lists of "distinguished economists" despite the fact that my economic career lacks any particular distinction, and I have no particular expertise in the area in question.

I am also familiar with a CBO estimate that a large increase in the minimum wage would bring 900,000 out of poverty, at the cost of 500,000 entry level jobs.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/44995

Is that a fair trade? You're taking away the jobs and income of those least able to afford that job loss. More importantly, you're locking the door to improving one's economic lot in life, because you're taking away their first job. I think most people find it's a lot easier to get the next job if you have a current one than if you've never had one.


I am aware of no competent study that claims a dramatic rise in minimum wages would not cause a decrease in entry level employment, although I admit that I'm cheating by addint the word "competent," but I have a rational basis for determining competence. Many of those who allege that increasing the minimum wage will not cause a substantial decrease in entry level unemployment make rather unrealistic expectations about the economy, e.g. that it will grow because the left-of-center is in charge. See, e.g.,
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/labor/news/2014/03/04/85192/understanding-cbos-minimum-wage-report/

That report claims that the CBO study had too pessimistic projections of growth when, if anything, the CBO was too optimistic.

In contrast, I could cite innumerable studies that show what most employers would tell you -- a higher minimum wage decreases entry level hiring. See, e.g.,

https://www.epionline.org/studies/r129/

Well, I need to preserve my own employment before I enjoy the Labor Day weekend (yes, I realize the irony). I hope you have the most enjoyable of weekends (which, I hope, is at least three days for you). I'm sure a few days rest won't impoverish the discussion.

John
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 4, 2015 - 03:15pm PT
I am aware of no competent study that claims a dramatic rise in minimum wages would not cause a decrease in entry level employment, although I admit that I'm cheating by addint the word "competent," but I have a rational basis for determining competence. Many of those who allege that increasing the minimum wage will not cause a substantial...

When you need a stack of undefined modifiers to try to make your weak, unsupported point, and move goalposts around; that might be the first clue that you are full of it.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 03:16pm PT
JohnE from your link...this is about teen employment.

"The difference between total job loss and minimum wage job loss is dramatic. Coomer and Wessels find that when the minimum wage is increased by 10 percent, employment for 16-to-19-year-olds in minimum wage jobs falls by as much as 11.1 percent. Looking specifically at 16-to-17-year-olds, employment losses rise to 13 percent.

The total job loss is moderated somewhat by the existence of businesses that aren’t covered by the minimum wage. Displaced teens and other minimum wage workers can find jobs with employers who can legally pay them a wage commensurate with their skills. As a result, a 10 percent minimum wage increase results in a total teen employment loss of 2.3 percent.

An important implication is that teen employment losses could be greater in states that choose to expand the coverage of the minimum wage. With no alternative employment options available—very few businesses, large or small, are exempt from a higher state minimum wage—teens who were previously working at minimum wage jobs are confronted with larger employment losses."



Jody...thought you were a CHIP. My mistake.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 03:19pm PT
Jody wrote: Increased Wages: Middle class income is at lowest point since the 70's, dropping nearly $3,000/year under Obama.


six times $3,000 = $18,000


What laws have the republican congress passed in the last two years to help increase workers income?

Do tell please.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Sep 4, 2015 - 03:20pm PT
jody sit up straight
when you type.

you're slouching.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 4, 2015 - 03:27pm PT
The minimum wage-to inflation index must be applied in a scientific manner and not be based on ideology.

I say; Index the minimum wage directly to current cost of weed and alcohol. Let the market dictate, to that degree.

I base this on extensive data gathering-my kids have been drinking my beers and dipping into my sack. Please pay them more!

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 4, 2015 - 04:40pm PT
Keep in mind, the last time there was a depression, the conditions were created for the rise of nazi Germany's and WWW II. A depression is nothing to f*#k around with.

As it is, we experienced the deepest "recession" in recent history. Nobody wanted to use the D-word, although by many metrics it could be argued that we were in depression anyway.

What makes you so confident the effects would have been short term?

I'm confident of nothing in this regard. Talk to ten different economists about it, and you'll get at least a dozen different answers!

"Short" vs. "long"? What do those words even mean?

My overarching point is that to save ourselves, we sold our souls to the fed and set precedents that are disastrous for the long term. Now corporations literally believe that they can run utterly roughshod over us, and, as long as they are (just) above the "too big to fail" threshold (whatever that is), there will be NO repercussions for what is literally criminal behavior.

And, RJ, sorry to make you mad, but that post needed editing. Happy to help!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 4, 2015 - 04:45pm PT
You only hire someone because they make you more than they cost you.

If they can't produce $30 worth of goods or services an hour for a $15 an hour pay check ans a $25 an hour or so total cost you are going to find another solution or go on to something more profitable.





Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 04:57pm PT
Jody..."Surprise! Despite endless American complaints about over-taxation, the U.S. has one of the world’s lowest marginal income tax rates, at 27%."


http://www.forbes.com/sites/investopedia/2011/12/01/countries-with-the-highest-and-lowest-taxes/2/



Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 05:11pm PT
Jody wrote: Why should the government get over 1/4 of my money, and that is JUST income tax.


To pay for the wars and the military?


Jody and his libertarian hogwash.


Thanks for the conversation.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 4, 2015 - 05:16pm PT
To pay for the wars and the military?

Okay, so how about we cut that to at most one-half of what it presently is and quit engaging in wars of conquest, the "salvation" of Israel, and ridiculous "police actions" around the world?

We could still be THE global power with half the military we presently have!
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 4, 2015 - 05:23pm PT
Again, Jody, how are YOU regulated? Does OSHA storm out to the ranch in ski masks to make sure you hung the cat door straight? Does the EPA refuse to give you carbon credits for your farts?

My small corporation, investment property and primary residence are all in one of the most hostile tax and regulation environments around (San Diego), but it's all fine, quite good actually.

Do you watch Naked and Afraid Jody? That's how you'd live without the US Government.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Sep 4, 2015 - 05:23pm PT
We could still be THE global power with half the military we presently have!


The best thing I have heard you say!

We do have common ground to stand on.


6 trillion dollars and counting used in a different way could sure solve a lot of problems.

Bullet makers have to eat as well.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 4, 2015 - 05:35pm PT
Bullet makers have to eat as well.

ROFL... well, they are eating VERY well indeed.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 05:42pm PT
Mad wrote: We could still be THE global power with half the military we presently have!


I agree, maybe you missed my little stab at Jody. :-)


Will wrote: 6 trillion dollars and counting used in a different way could sure solve a lot of problems.


Like rebuilding our infrastructure.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 4, 2015 - 08:04pm PT
Jody, I just wanted to get to know you, hence the questions.

You're what drew me here, with the "blood on my hands" stuff. I recognize that you are a huge component of the Super Topo experience.

You're like:
Frank Burns to Mash.
Mr. Smith to Lost in Space.
Shane to Naked and Afraid.
Any others?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 4, 2015 - 08:08pm PT
Ansel Adams?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Goldenville west of Lurkerville
Sep 4, 2015 - 08:08pm PT
Dr. Smith from lost in space...? That's a low blow...Jody...contact CMAC...now...
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 4, 2015 - 09:03pm PT
Newman to Seinfeld.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 09:33pm PT
Abbott to Costello?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 09:34pm PT
Frick to Frack?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 4, 2015 - 09:34pm PT
Laurel to Hardy?
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 4, 2015 - 09:43pm PT
Ted Cruz to humanity
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 4, 2015 - 10:17pm PT
So if you guys cut your military in half, (talk about domestic terrorism ! ) how would you cope with an additional 738,948 people being unemployed ?


so, we're adding jobs at about 200,000 per month, so problem fixed in 4 months.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Sep 4, 2015 - 11:36pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 5, 2015 - 08:43am PT
Talk in G.O.P. Turns to a Stop Donald Trump Campaign

By NICHOLAS CONFESSORESEPT. 4, 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/05/us/politics/talk-in-gop-turns-to-a-stop-donald-trump-campaign.html?_r=0

Quiet conversations have begun in recent weeks among some of the Republican Party’s biggest donors and normally competing factions, all aimed at a single question: How can we stop Donald Trump?

Republican strategists and donors have assembled focus groups to test negative messages about Mr. Trump. They have amassed dossiers on his previous support for universal health care and higher taxes. They have even discussed the creation of a “super PAC” to convince conservatives that Mr. Trump is not one of them.

But the mammoth big-money network assembled by Republicans in recent years is torn about how best to defuse the threat Mr. Trump holds for their party, and haunted by the worry that any concerted attack will backfire.


In phone calls, private dinners and occasional consultations among otherwise rivalrous outside groups, many have concluded that Mr. Trump’s harsh manner and continued attacks on immigrants and women were endangering the party’s efforts to compete in the general election. Yet after committing hundreds of millions of dollars to shape the Republican primary contest and groom a candidate who can retake the White House, the conservative donor class is finding that money — even in an era of super PACs and billion-dollar presidential campaigns — is a devalued currency in the blustery, post-policy campaign fashioned by Mr. Trump, driven not by seven-figure advertising campaigns but by Twitter feuds and unending free publicity.

“People are somewhat perplexed by the whole Trump phenomenon,” said Ray Washburne, a Dallas businessman who is Gov. Chris Christie’s finance chairman.

So far, according to the Campaign Media Analysis Group and a Republican media buyer, there has barely been any advertising targeting Mr. Trump. Out of $90 million worth of ads reserved or bought in the Republican primary, just $1,300 has been spent attacking Mr. Trump — an ad in Spanish that ran briefly in California that was sponsored by a Spanish-language television network.

The Club for Growth, which has spent millions of dollars on feisty intraparty campaigns attacking Republican candidates who deviate from conservative economic orthodoxy, appears closest to moving against Mr. Trump, soliciting advice from among its members and researching potential lines of attack.

The group helped torpedo the populist presidential bid of Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor, in 2008, and has long been a thorn in the side of Republican leaders — making it, many Republicans believe, a credible foil to Mr. Trump.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 5, 2015 - 08:56am PT
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/252825-poll-trump-beats-hillary-head-to-head
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 5, 2015 - 10:16am PT
The RealClear Politics Average is just that. An average of many of the polls out there.

It doesn't show the latest trends.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 5, 2015 - 10:35am PT
so, we're adding jobs at about 200,000 per month, so problem fixed in 4 months.

Jorge Ramos said 30million illegals cross each year.. Ken work on ur math
Norton

Social climber
Sep 5, 2015 - 10:39am PT
Jorge Ramos said 30million illegals cross each year.. Ken work on ur math

got a source you can post showing that Ramos said that?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 5, 2015 - 10:41am PT
"Jorge Ramos said 30million illegals cross each year.. Ken work on ur math"


Hilarious.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/flow-of-illegal-immigration-slows-as-us-mexico-border-dynamics-evolve/2015/05/27/c5caf02c-006b-11e5-833c-a2de05b6b2a4_story.html


"As the Department of Homeland Security continues to pour money into border security, evidence is emerging that illegal immigration flows have fallen to their lowest level in at least two decades. The nation’s population of illegal immigrants, which more than tripled, to 12.2 million, between 1990 and 2007, has dropped by about 1 million, according to demographers at the Pew Research Center."


Blame Obama.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 5, 2015 - 11:28am PT
Jody wrote: Bob d'idiot Antonio wrote:


Hitting the wrong keys again Jody.


How that socialist retirement fund going for you?


Jody wrote: Did you note my clarification on the drop ion MC income under Obummer?


Yes and like always you are wrong.

""Income progress was broad and robust through the Reagan and Clinton years and stopped abruptly during the Bush and Obama administrations," the report states.

Most households saw their income stay steady or decline from 2002 to 2013. The only exceptions were households headed by college graduates and those headed by people in their 20s.

The average household was hurt by the technology revolution that put a premium on highly educated workers and the economy's globalization, which pushed wages down for less-skilled workers, according to Shapiro."

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Sep 5, 2015 - 12:12pm PT
""Income progress was broad and robust through the Reagan and Clinton years and stopped abruptly during the Bush and Obama administrations," the report states.


Bob, that seems true for me........ I would like to read that report, got a link????

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 5, 2015 - 12:14pm PT
Here you go...http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/StreetTalk/Income-Obama-Reagan-Clinton/2015/03/10/id/629286/
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 5, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
Obama is right...http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/income-inequality-taxes-growth-wealth/2014/12/09/id/611912/

Redistribute the wealth.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 5, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
Jody wrote:"contractor, quit asking stupid questions".

In golf, it's called "handy capping".
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 5, 2015 - 12:39pm PT
Jody wrote: Okay Bob, you win. Obama is the best leader this world has ever seen. Things have never been better.


No, FDR is my choice.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 5, 2015 - 12:39pm PT
https://youtu.be/0J6bfVnW4fQ

Jody, the multiple personal conflicts you are engaged in and the rapid firing of insults has me worried that this all gets you exited.

Just talk this out in a reasonable manner.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 5, 2015 - 12:43pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Just wanted to repost some funny ladies
Norton

Social climber
Sep 5, 2015 - 01:28pm PT
sarcasm may be fun

but prove you above post about Obama wrong, Jody

taxes have never been lower

unemployment is down to 5.1%

the economy has fully recovered from being in RECESSION when he took office

tens of millions of Americans now have healthcare who did not before

no more of our boys are dying in Iraq in a "nation building" failure under Republican Bush

on and on

facts, Jody, not bias

and all done against the most defiant Republican opposition that you continue to vote FOR

really, you ought to ashamed of your critical thinking skills
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 5, 2015 - 01:30pm PT
bob here is ur link on the 30million Jorge posted

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2644858/Ready-For-Bernie


ur source for the news... :)
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Sep 5, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
Home run, Norton. Indisputable facts.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 5, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
Jody wrote: Norton, look past the talking points and rhetoric and actually delve into the facts a little deeper and you will find that all is not what it seems. the "lower" unemployment rate is one example. Look into the factors that enabled the administration to come up with that number.


Norton, you have to understand that Jody was/is completely happy with Bush and his record on employment.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 5, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
Norton, I think Jody is dyslexia.



HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 5, 2015 - 05:33pm PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 6, 2015 - 08:34am PT
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/


Locker here are the correct poll numbers
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 6, 2015 - 08:48am PT
peladob

Mountain climber
Mason City, Iowa
Sep 6, 2015 - 08:52am PT
1+ Hermit
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Sep 6, 2015 - 04:32pm PT
Bob.... thanks for the link...

explains a lot.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 6, 2015 - 07:26pm PT
http://www.salon.com/2014/07/29/secrets_of_the_right_wing_brain_new_study_proves_it_conservatives_see_a_different_hostile_world/

It pains me to admit I'm a "Folk Devil".
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 6, 2015 - 10:29pm PT
Nate Silver always has some interesting ways of looking at elections.

One of the current ones is the "Endorsement Primary", in which one looks at important endorsements as a predictor of who will be supported by the party.

In presidential primaries, endorsements have been among the best predictors of which candidates will succeed and which will fail.

Interesting to see the current numbers in the Repub party, particularly compared with the Dems:

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-endorsement-primary/


Before any votes are cast, presidential candidates compete for the support of influential members of their party, especially elected officials like U.S. representatives, senators and governors. During the period known as the “invisible primary,” these “party elites” seek to coalesce around the candidates they find most acceptable as their party’s nominee. Over the past few decades, when these elites have reached a consensus on the best candidate, rank-and-file voters have usually followed.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Sep 7, 2015 - 12:12am PT
Palin as his energy secretary.
I think a lot about the Department of Energy, because energy is my baby: oil and gas and minerals, those things that God has dumped on this part of the Earth for mankind’s use instead of us relying on unfriendly foreign nations,

What a thoughtful god...


edited for political correctness
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:18am PT
Secrets of the right-wing brain: New study proves it — conservatives see a different, hostile world

Phony WMD, Benghazi, birthers, truthers -- turns out there's a scientific explanation for deniers and Tea Partyers,

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/29/secrets_of_the_right_wing_brain_new_study_proves_it_conservatives_see_a_different_hostile_world/


Conservative fears of nonexistent or overblown boogeymen — Saddam’s WMD, Shariah law, voter fraud, Obama’s radical anti-colonial mind-set, Benghazi, etc. — make it hard not to see conservatism’s prudent risk avoidance as having morphed into a state of near permanent paranoia, especially fueled by recurrent “moral panics,” a sociological phenomenon in which a group of “social entrepreneurs” whips up hysterical fears over a group of relatively powerless “folk devils” who are supposedly threatening the whole social order. Given that conservatism seems to be part of human nature — just as liberalism is — we’re going to need all the help we can get in figuring out how to live with it, without being dominated, controlled and crippled by it.

Consider the recent wave of hysteria over Central American children turning themselves in at the border. There were the hordes of angry demonstrators protesting busloads of children, like it was Little Rock, Arkansas, in 1957. There was the congressman/doctor Phil Gingrey’s warning letter to the CDC, claiming that the children might be carrying the Ebola virus — a disease unknown outside Sub-Saharan Africa. There was the ludicrous myth of the “$50 million illegal alien resort spa.” But above all there was the most basic, fundamental fact that the children were turning themselves in at the border — there was no failure of border protection, although that’s what the right-wing hysteria portrayed it as.

Oh these poor little fearful cowards, controlled by fear to vote for corrupt conservatives that promote more fear and claim they will do something to coddle their fears.
And most all of it is based on lies, propaganda and paranoia...

There is no Border crisis, It's all BS, the crisis is how the immigrants are treated in our jails. The net Mexican immigration level is ZERO, meaning the same amount of people leave as enter.

It's pretty pathetic that we have such a large population of these cowards.

It's just another example of the power of media, it dictates what a certain group of people will believe no matter what the truth may be.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:18am PT
Trump could win the nomination. Most Republicans believe his nonsense. They live in a fact free, Fox-fed reality of rage and resentment. Barack Obama, the socialist Muslim, stole their country and they want it back.

Edit:
Case in point, TNT
vv
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:45am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:53am PT
But yes, he has touched that nerve and made it scream a loud, ugly scream.

I don't discount the pain these mostly older and mostly white angry people feel. It is real. They do believe they are losing or have lost their country, and they do want to "take it back" and "make America great again." But take it back from whom? Who has actually "taken" their country?

I don't doubt they are hurting. They may feel they have lost jobs or opportunities to the immigrant population, or that their children or grandchildren will.

Those are hard facts to accept. But that is the new reality, and yelling at people to go back to where they came from or hatching absurd schemes to send 11 million people packing won't change that.

The Republicans destroy the American Government, so the only recourse is to Vote for Rich Republican Outsiders that tell you how f-ed up the government is.

Sounds like hiring pedophiles to take care of your children, because preschools have been known to have abuse problems.
Completely stupid.
Trump nor Carson will do anything to fix America, because they ARE Republicans, Republicans don't fix things, they rig things.
Have none of you learned anything from the last 35 years of Republican Rule.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:04am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

Republicans don't fix things, they rig things.

For once I agree with Craid FRiedbrains...

Abraham Lincoln, 16th President of the United States, Republican
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:08am PT
Lincoln was a liberal
If you read History, you will find that the Democrats back then were the Conservative Party

When talking about Repulicans, we are talking about the Current Republican Party, which is Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Tea Baggers, Neo-cons, etc

When we discuss Parties, it works like this:

Republican/Libertarian = Conservatives, Right Winger
Democratic = Liberal, Progressive, left winger, socialist

Fascist = right wing Nationalistic Authoritarian rule, Gov. and Corps are in cahoots, Trump.
Communist = right wing Authoritarian form of socialism, Gov. controls everything
Socialism = left wing socialized commons, democratic control

Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and Eisenhower were LIBERAL Republicans, FACT

To use this historical reference in such a context is a mistake, and indicates your level of knowledge of politics and history is so lacking that there is no point debating you.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:21am PT
Lincoln was a liberal

Ok...

The individual he ran against was the Democratic Parties nomination.

Stephan A. Douglas

Here is what the Democratic Nominee had to say at one of the debates he had against the Republican Nominee, A. Lincoln....

At Galesburg, Douglas explicitly declared that the Declaration of Independence was not meant to apply to non-whites. He said, "This Government was made by our fathers on the white basis ... made by white men for the benefit of white men and their posterity forever"


Good old Democrat I tell ya....


Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and Eisenhower were LIBERAL Republicans, FACT

Based on what? The word of a lunatic Cactus Juice snorter... Craig Fried?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:25am PT
As I said, the right wing Democrats
back in History The South were right wing racist Democrats, now they are right wing racist Republicans

Is your mind unable too assimilate the facts of HISTORY

do you bother reading before you spew?

Do you have to include insults in every post?

It's very childish.


NO by my logic it was the Northern Dems after Teddy were liberal
The Southern Dems were Right wingers racists

Just forget the words Dems or Repubs before JFK, it all comes down to being either a Liberal or a Conservative

Liberals freed the slaves, the right wing racists in the South (Dems) tried to stop Lincoln and went to war against the Liberal North. fact

Fact. the right wingers have been against granting freedoms since they fear others having the freedom they desire. Women, blacks, gays, latinos, all of these groups have had their freedoms restricted by RIGHT WINGERS.
10b4me

Social climber
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:27am PT
'Gumby,

She wants to be Energy Secretary, not Labor.

She said she would gut the department.. What a f*#king idiot.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:36am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

Sep 7, 2015 - 08:25am PT

Do you have to include insults in every post?

Priceless.... following your lead, FRY!

Just in the past hour,

Oh these poor little fearful cowards, controlled by fear to vote for corrupt conservatives that promote more fear and claim they will do something to coddle their fears. And most all of it is based on lies, propaganda and paranoia...

Carry on...


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:43am PT
The Chief, 517 posts in 3 weeks

Probably a new record for ST, congrats

and nearly a third of the contain the words Craig Fry, or Fry, or fried

are you obsessed with me?

why don't you just take a break from me
leave me out of your rants, it's very bad form.

You and Pyro, obsessed with insulting me, it's very ugly,
hope you are happy with your lack of integrity.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:43am PT
Based on what? The word of a lunatic Cactus Juice snorter... Craig Fried?

+1
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:46am PT
More Fry"INSULTS" in just the past hour alone....

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

Sep 7, 2015 - 07:53am PT


The Republicans destroy the American Government..... Sounds like hiring pedophiles to take care of your children, because preschools have been known to have abuse problems. Completely stupid.

Craig Fry... Before his second "I am going to pack my toys and leave the Sandbox" bailing, he had over 35,000 posts of which over 34,000 were "Insults" of one sort or another on some stupidass Politard thread.

Thanks for your awesome contributions and promotions to the ST Politard keep em at the top of the front page threads...
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:03am PT
I was banned for trying to get the ugliness extracted form this forum.

Kind a like the Crips trying to "extcract" the Bloods from their neighborhood.

Got it....


Ugliness?

You mean like this just recently posted, "Ugliness"...

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

Sep 7, 2015 - 07:53am PT


The Republicans destroy the American Government..... Sounds like hiring pedophiles to take care of your children, because preschools have been known to have abuse problems.

Calling "Republicans" in general, pedophiles. Nope, no ugliness there. Right Craig Fry.


And this bountiful and totally oxymoron last post of yours...

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

Sep 7, 2015 - 08:57am PT
Insults are personal attacks you moron

Another Priceless Craig Fry delivery of .... "Ugliness" ?????
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:05am PT
The individual he ran against was the Democratic Parties nomination.
Stephan A. Douglas
Here is what the Democratic Nominee had to say at one of the debates he had against the Republican Nominee, A. Lincoln....
At Galesburg, Douglas explicitly declared that the Declaration of Independence was not meant to apply to non-whites. He said, "This Government was made by our fathers on the white basis ... made by white men for the benefit of white men and their posterity forever"
Good old Democrat I tell ya....

Chief and Craig: Not to disagree with what the Chief said about Douglas, but Lincoln said much the same things. He may have freed the slaves, but he was holding his nose when he did so. Here's what he had to say about race:

"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And in as much as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. My understanding is that I can just let her alone."

To try to score political points by equating your current team with historical figures is silly.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:09am PT
Craig Fry, you truly do do the Left Wing Extremist in this a nation a grand favor. You consistently behave in the manner in which is a clear example of their constant Tolerance.


Exampled by your very recently calling Republicans in general, PEDOPHILE's.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:13am PT
Your obsession with me is the problem.
You are an internet bully.

my every post elicits a rash of insults and BS from you
How many posts do you site my name,, Hundreds, that's sick man...

That is the very definition of a bully
Do you enjoy being the big bully that can thrash me with no restraint?

Why make a big deal out of something I didn't say, "Republicans are pedophiles"

I said it's "like hiring pedophiles"
More insults???
Can you ever tone it down back from 11 to maybe 4 or 6.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:17am PT
Now I am "Bully" for calling you out on your total intolerance, calling them 'stupid" etc of anyone that comes on here and goes against your way of extremist ideological thinking and insistent posting of your totally bias BS.

Add that one to your "Priceless" posting...


I said it's "like hiring pedophiles"

Ah, so now Republicans in general hire... pedophiles.

Wonderful. Keep em coming Craig Fry.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:19am PT
I'm not intolerant of anyone, tolerance is my middle name
I post my opinions, that's it

You're the one being intolerant, and going off on what people post.

My opinions are based on facts that have been proven, so why don't you debate them with facts rather than BS you pulled out of thin air.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:22am PT
Calling people "Stupid" and "Morons" is showing your tolerance...

Keep em coming, Craig Fry.

that's NOT why you are a bully..

Coming from you LOcker... totally meaningless.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:22am PT
Craig wrote: Your obsession with me is the problem.


He does it to most, Locker, Todd, me, Patrick, sick little prick.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:23am PT
I will keep count of the time you use my name in a post as an insult
keep em coming

My ideology is the same as main stream America, the right wingers are the extremists.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:25am PT
sick little prick."...
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:26am PT
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM

Sep 7, 2015 - 09:22am PT
Craig wrote: Your obsession with me is the problem.


He does it to most, Locker, Todd, me, Patrick, .

Not only do Republicans like to hire pedophiles and are morons but now anyone that goes against YOUR LEFT WING IDEOLOGY is a "sick little prick.

And the hits just keep on coming...


It's pretty much ALL he does here lately...

..

Nope.

Just can't stand the insane hypocrisy and hate that you and the same folks noted above continue to proliferate here on ST.

Now them "noodles" ya'll keep posting clearly indicate how ya'll ... "Must be miserable as hell being so fuking negative. of course had to have directed at Craig Fry..

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

Sep 7, 2015 - 07:53am PT


The Republicans destroy the American Government..... Sounds like hiring pedophiles to take care of your children, because preschools have been known to have abuse problems. Completely stupid.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:27am PT
Dig down in the pol

Trump gets 25% of the black vote, 31% of the Hispanic vote and beats every Democrat.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=d950cadf-05ce-4148-a125-35c0cdab26c6
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:32am PT
"but now anyone that goes against YOUR LEFT WING IDEOLOGY is a "sick little prick."


No just you.



"Just can't stand the insane hypocrisy and hate that you and the same folks noted above continue to proliferate here on ST."


Coming from the king of it.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:34am PT
TGT...$1,000 says that Trump doesn't win.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:35am PT
+1 Chief

Craig Fry has deleted threads with 10's of thousands of posts after his meltdowns.

He is a liar....
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:37am PT
upset??


Nah.... I LMAO at everyone of your totally meaningless posts, LOcker.


And the insistent hate from Craig Fry towards Republicans, will, I just shake my head and hope that one day he stops getting so... "upset" as you indicated, LOCker.

Hey Craig Fry, BOBda, etal...

I suggest you pay attention to your Brother, LOcker....

It's NOT worth getting SERIOUSLY upset about...
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:38am PT
i don't consider republicans
sick little pricks.

but, based on my critical
observation of their
antics, and
my understanding
of their idealogy,
(as instilled by
my 19 years under
an ultra-conservative
roof,)
i must admit that they
present themselves
as patrons of
debilitating fear
and victims
of brash selfishness,
topped off
with a dollop
of ignorance.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:40am PT
"Nah.... I LMAO at everyone of your totally meaningless posts, Locker."



But you respond to every single one of them in anger. What a little weasel.
Norton

Social climber
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:41am PT

The Donald has opened up a commanding lead in the polls over the other Republicans.

And Bernie Sanders is leading Clinton in New Hampshire polling and tied in Iowa.

so, Trump versus Sanders very possibly?

and with all the debates between those two coming up Trump will overwhelm Sanders
with his command of the issues and easily win the Presidency.

And truly Make America Great Again
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:44am PT
But you respond to every single one of them in anger.

Really BOBda.... post anyone that I responded in .. anger

Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase.



What a little weasel.

There's another one of them bountiful and caring, insults

Wonderful.



And Bernie Sanders is leading Clinton in New Hampshire polling and tied in Iowa.

And that is who is going to be the next POTUS!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:46am PT
"There's another one of them bountiful and caring, insults"


I could care less about you Chief.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:50am PT
Locker,

The Chief is doing just fine....
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:57am PT
The above LOcker posts, coming from an individual that has over 43,000 completely ignorant and totally worthless posts on Supertopo.

Perfect, LOcker.

You ... ROCK!

EDIT:

Shet! I completely forgot how LOcker approves of this man for POTUS.

The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 10:02am PT
Again, your IMHO is one that any adversary and supposed "pedophiles/morons" (per Craig Fry's opinion) should follow.

Thanks for caring LOcker.


But... nah.


Why is Biden rubbing on W.C. Fields leg???...

You should ask that to Craig Fry. He appears to be the expert on... never mind.

What you should be asking yourself LOcker... "Why the hell would I ever suggest voting for, Biden".
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 10:06am PT
I could care less about you Chief.

DAAAAAAAAAAAAMN.... I care about you, BOBda.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 10:08am PT
"The above LOcker posts, coming from an individual that has over 43,000 completely ignorant and totally worthless posts on Supertopo."




There you go...no anger and no facts.


Locker, keep them coming you bring a lot of smiles to a lot of people.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 10:15am PT
BOBda:

Locker, keep them coming you bring a lot of smiles to a lot of people.



PS: I see where your level of political intelligence stems from, BOBda.

LOcker and BOBda both in the Biden BOX.



TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuneee.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 7, 2015 - 10:27am PT
Home run, Norton. Indisputable facts.

Apparently, there are no such thing.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2015 - 10:31am PT
Republican/Libertarian = Conservatives, Right Winger

...indicates your level of knowledge of politics and history is so lacking that there is no point debating you.

Libertarians are not ON either the "liberal vs. conservative" or "left vs. right" continuums.

For you to equate Libertarians with Republicans... well, that alone makes your "no point" line quite apropos... to you.

Now, carry on with your "knowledgeable" blathering.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 7, 2015 - 10:41am PT

GOOGLE what damage STRESS can cause and then get back with me...

I Googled stress and found this:

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 11:12am PT

I ask the know it all..
Why do libertarians run as Republicans if they are not right wingers?

They sure never call themselves liberals,
They don't vote for Democrats.
should I go on?
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 7, 2015 - 11:14am PT
Hey Hermitbeater aka Corniss Klansman
I didn't delete those threads, admin did
so that makes you a Big FAT LIAR

I'm not Corniss you dumbsh#t.

And, absolutely you deleted your very first Republicans thread. It had more than 20k posts. And, you did it after a personal meltdown...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 11:16am PT
never had a personal meltdown, that's a fact
so you LIE
I was sick of the BS, I go back and forth on the issue

you know nothing about my personal makeup

you post exactly like Corniss
who had a personal meltdown after his prediction of a landslide for Mitt Romney went sour.

Are personal insults the only thing right wingers have
vvvvv
It's a sickness
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 7, 2015 - 11:19am PT
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 11:20am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

Sep 7, 2015 - 11:08am PT
Hey Hermitbeater aka Corniss Klansman
I didn't delete those threads, admin did
so that makes you a Big FAT LIAR

NO thread of evidence of an insult there is there Craig Fry?

AND, Craig Fry, are you stating that you NEVER deleted any of your posts/threads during your previous two times playing in this sandbox? Including the period in which you bailed, voluntarily?

Something to do with the first "Why Republicans are Wrong" shetfest and totally worthless thread/s and your posting up about the Block Party you were throwing for meeting some milestone but had you NOT deleted some 20K of those posts, you would have had some 50K joyous posts on that total hate towards Republicans thread of yours.

So Priceless.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 11:54am PT
Crap... you're giving me crap, LOcker?


Not one of you eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeven knows how to do that. But keep trying LOcker.

BOBda needs some excitement in his boring ass life apparently.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2015 - 11:56am PT
Why do libertarians run as Republicans if they are not right wingers?

Do you even know what "right wing" MEANS?

Seriously, that you can even ask such a question calls your limited credibility into deep and fundamental question. The answer to that question would be OBVIOUS to you if you understood American politics and political philosophy at 1/10 the level you claim to.

We have a "winner take all" approach, contrary to a parliamentary system. That is why it is extremely difficult for any third party to emerge in the face of two established parties. It is even harder today than it was 100 years ago. If you think a bit, you'll tumble to why.

Libertarians who run "Republican" do so because being on one of the two main-party tickets is the only hope of being elected. Most of them are vehemently opposed to Democratic "masterminding" via ever-increasing government. A guy like Ron Paul had hopes of election as a "Republican" and then working to reform the party towards a much more Libertarian platform. Some Republicans at least mouth the words "limited government," which is more akin to Libertarian principles. Of course, a true Libertarian means much more by "limited government" than any Republican can fathom. So a guy like Ron Paul tried (unsuccessfully) to be something of a Libertarian Trojan horse.

Strategic success or failure is beside the point, btw. The point is that there are strategic reasons for a Libertarian to run as a Republican that have nothing to do with being "conservative" or "right," as you say.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
AH, knock KNock LOCKER... You can't ever even begin to give me "Crap".


BTW, here's a good little taste of some of the real "Crap" I have endured there LOcker.. some 25 weeks or so of it.

Now take s deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep Breath.


[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 12:13pm PT
War? Bitter?


Who said anything about war? Bitter...


BUD/S teaches and shows one who they really are inside and what they really can do.

So clueless LOcker.

Put down the THC for a day.... then maybe some sense of... no.. never mind.

Watch the first Video LOcker and maybe you'll learn something. BTW: Half of the time we were on the Mexican Border during Hell Week. The Instructor would make us waddle and play in the Mud Flats just north of TJ! Ummmmmmmmmmmm, can still remember that wonderful aroma....
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 12:17pm PT
You're the one claiming to be able to give me.. "Crap".

RFLMAO!

Thanks LOcker... keep em coming. The smoke from the ROugh fire is keeping me home today and I do not watch tv, so....

"So clueless LOcker."...We ALL are...

That of course must include Craig Fry, BOBda, You... and....
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 12:19pm PT
I don't fish LOcker.... that's your first problem.



ocker

climber
STFU n00b!!!

Sep 7, 2015 - 12:19pm PT


You don't fish as well as I do..



Take care The Chief!!!...

I'll still chat with you...

But not going to play YOUR game...

It's fruitless...

Promise???


Hey wait a minute, is that post kin to the one from yesterday on another "thread" where you stated you were... "Done here"???????????????????






Then you returned not more than five mins later. Bravo!!!

Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 7, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
American idiologs and zelouts-PLEASE stand strong!

Because of you, our social and political spectrum is broad and encompassing and mimics ecological diversity.

Zenaphobes, chicken hawks and venison eaters: When REAL (not perceived) treats result in; sh#t exploding in the fan and all hell brakes loose, the tide will shift the center in your favor. Until then, you will be isolated and ridiculed (and should be). You act on primal emotions and have an underdeveloped frontal lobe. You have a tendency to destroy societies, if left unchecked.

Lemmings, Pacifists and Trustafarians: Your empathy and logic have pushed our society to a place of, such high living standards and culture advancement. However; Your abject denial that, at some level, Darwinism does not have a place in our society makes us weak and vulnerable to human nature itself. You too, have a tendency to destroy societies.

Your battles, within the confines of our laws and the Constitution, have NOT resulted in an endless and stagnant swinging of the "pendulum". Instead, each lasting and positive effect of societal shifts, pushed by opposing idiologies, drives the resulting shift in an upwards spiral. A single helix.

I'm posting this out of my own interests. Without the two waring factions throwing insults and accusations, sh#t like I just wrote may prevail-boring...
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 01:50pm PT
Zenaphobes, chicken hawks and venison eaters: When REAL (not perceived) treats result in; sh#t exploding in the fan and all hell brakes loose, the tide will shift the center in your favor. Until then, you will be isolated and ridiculed (and should be). You act on primal emotions and have an underdeveloped frontal lobe. You have a tendency to destroy societies, if left unchecked.

Amazing how tens of thousands of Latino's monthly are doing everything they can to come to this.... "destroyed society run by chickenhawks with underdeveloped frontal lobes" nation of ours.

They must of course be totally delusional in demanding that the POTUS allow them to stay here as legalized immigrants.

What is even more delusional of them, they actually allow the gov't to deem their offspring as legal citizens of this "destroyed society" of ours.

Or, encourage their children to endure hundreds, thousands of miles of pur hell and agony to get to this "destroyed society" in order to have a chance in life to become one of "chickenhawks" and go off to some far off land and fight in one of them ideological oil based wars.

Now, let's try and figure that one out....


And LOcker, maybe you should change your mind next time and eat a salad.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 02:26pm PT
Didn't the tough guy Chief have to get rescued off some 5.8???

Heard he was the joke of summit post for years.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 02:39pm PT
OK...5.9 tough guy.

They call the search and rescue out for you. Yes or no.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 02:40pm PT
HA... No rescue. None. But then any route you bolted LOcker and/or BOBda, I would certainly consider keeping the local SAR on a 5 Min ALert standby.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 02:42pm PT
Dream on little man, you could not follow the routes I do or have done.





pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 7, 2015 - 02:44pm PT
They call the search and rescue out for you. Yes or no.

TJD.... THAT JUST DUMB
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 03:09pm PT
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM

Sep 7, 2015 - 02:39pm PT


They call the search and rescue out for you. Yes or no.


AND!


Been on over 200 some "Call Out's" that were FALSE ALARMS and got called off.

Your Point BOBda....


And dig deeper into your book of Insults the BOBda... Not doing a thing as far as the "Crap" issuing that actually puts a glimmer of concern in my eyes.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM

Sep 7, 2015 - 02:42pm PT
Dream on little man, you could not follow the routes I do or have done.

BTW, done well over two dozen of your 50,000 drilled and placed bolted "Routes". No big deal actually. 2/5 Stars tops.

Grid Bolted 40-70' Sport outdoor gym lines weren't my gig, know what I mean BOBda!

Did ALL your routes here btw:


And I concur with the Star Ratings given to em, your routes above, on that particular site.

I was more into the obscure 2-3 day humps up and into virgin no mans land shet. Maybe why SAR was called out on my stupid whacko crazy ass. But then I do not believe you'd understand what those far away in the middle of no where type routes entail considering the locations all them bolted lines of yours are. Five min tops walk from the Prius and all.


EDIT:

Now how bout any replies from anyone here that has gone under or over any fence to sneak into Mexico and experienced them Five Star Mexican Gov't accommodations?

Anyone???


LOcker and BOBda, now this is something along the lines of what just might raise one of my eyebrows concerning the "Crap" and "Insult" slinging....

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Now.... go work on it.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2015 - 03:42pm PT
Hey, it's turning into a climbing thread after all. :-)
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2015 - 03:46pm PT
And... 900.

About as many hairs as His Hairness has worked into the combover.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Sep 7, 2015 - 03:57pm PT
And... 900.

And if we removed the many hundred from three or four posters that do nothing but call each other names, we'd have a 200-post thread that might actually be interesting.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:02pm PT
Little man wrote: Grid Bolted 40-70' Sport outdoor gym lines weren't my gig, know what I mean BOBda!





Well I have climbed 5.12 in the Black Canyon and on the Diamond, how about you little man?


Climbed 5.12r's in the Gunks and Eldo, How about you little man?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:04pm PT
And if we removed the many hundred from three or four posters that do nothing but call each other names, we'd have a 200-post thread that might actually be interesting.

+10
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:10pm PT
"Grid Bolted 40-70' Sport outdoor gym lines weren't my gig, know what I mean BOBda!"


Yes I do...too hard for you, more that likely couldn't get to the first bolt on many of them.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:12pm PT
... how about you little man?

Not that my opinion matters to you, Bob, but I'll say that I've respected you for decades, even though your climbing style has never been my climbing style. I can still appreciate someone pushing the edges in any given style.

I hate to see you get dragged down to this level. Calling somebody "little man" is about as low a non-cursing epithet as you can go, imo.

Even when I don't agree with you politically, that's not a reflection of my general respect for you. I'd love to see you take the high road here.

Then we can just get back to (civilly) disagreeing with each other. :-)
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:14pm PT
Thanks Mad...Richard started the insults years ago, it is the only way to respond to him. If he wants respect he should show some. I'm also trying to take his pit bull like grip off Locker for a bit.

Just for your information Mad...the crazyman has stalked me on Facebook, different internet sites, posted where I worked and in general is just down right creepy.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:17pm PT
I certainly get it, Bob! The Chief can be relentless. We've all seen it. That's why I'm not appealing to him here.

Just expressing my respect for you, and I mean that.

Edit: regarding your edit, things like that cross the line from insulting to illegal. If you have records, it might be worth pursuing legal action. Once something becomes "creepy," the authorities should know about it. We certainly have lots of experience in recent years with online creeps that then "went postal," and when looking back we discover there was evidence of a ticking time bomb from well before. I don't know if it's gone that far in "creepiness," but it's getting pretty creepy on this very thread, imo!
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:20pm PT
God Damn BOBda, you truly are stand up kiss your ass kinda guy.

Love it.


Typical Left Wing Whack job... point the finger at everyone and anyone but never taking any accountability for their own behavior.

Just remember this BOBda, every time you point that finger of yours at me or anyone else here, INCLUDING DONALD TRUMP, for all the supposed shet you claim I and he and anyone else is doing, believe in, Shetty or Wrong, there's always FOUR pointing right back at ya!


Then we can just get back to (civilly)

^^^^You're kidding right MAD. You're asking BOBda and Craig Fry to towards anyone that does not align with their across the board ideology.. ^^^^
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
^^^^You're kidding right MAD. You're asking BOBda and Craig Fry to... ^^^^

Oh, there are definitely those here that just devolve into attacks. I don't remember Bob doing any of that to me. I don't mind a "heated" exchange, including even some sarcasm and "jabbing." I've never felt like Bob crossed any lines with me. Others, sure. But not Bob.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:28pm PT
Norton

Social climber
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
Just for your information Mad...the crazyman has stalked me on Facebook, different internet sites, posted where I worked and in general is just down right creepy.

what?

Rick? Surely he would not have done that
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
^^^ LOL

Edit: For the pic just above.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
"Typical Left Wing Whack job... point the finger at everyone and anyone but never taking any accountability for their own behavior."

You are a dope, I have held my self accountable in every facet of my life, from a 40 year marriage (still going) to my kids, work, friends and climbing.



Also whatever I have said to you I would say right to your face.


The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:30pm PT
Throw me outta the picture MAD, and appears yourself.

But all one has to do is look in BOBda's recent past and I can post at least a dozen episodes of his attempt to "insult" those that disagreed with him.

I can post them here but it would of course boondogle this, one of many outstanding ST Politard shetfest threads.


You are a dope, I have held my self accountable in every facet of my life, from a 40 year marriage (still going) to my kids, work, friends and climbing.

WITFF does that have anything to do with you repeatedly showing your total disdain for anyone that does not agree with you politically or ideologically?

What!

You're starting to sound like Craig Fry.

Do you BOBda actually communicate to your family members in the same manner as you do to those here on ST you disagree with?

Do I need to start posting up the stuff you throw out... and none of it towards me!

EDIT: Let's start doing so... Gun Threads, Politard SHetfest Threads, Cops are Killer threads etc etc ....
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:31pm PT
one of many outstanding ST Politard shetfest threads.

Oh, it IS that for sure.

I'm just saying that I've never felt like Bob "attacked" me, even though clearly we disagree pretty thoroughly.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:37pm PT
"WITFF does that have anything to do with you repeatedly showing your total disdain for anyone that does not agree with you politically or ideologically?"


You might want to John Gill or John E about that.


I just don't take your and Ron's sh#t slinging.


Also I'll be out to see KD at Fixe sometime this year (my second edition of Shelf RD) feel free to come tell me anything you want.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:39pm PT
Also I'll be out to see KD at Fixe sometime this year (my second edition of Shelf RD) feel free to come tell me anything you want.

Does this mean you want to meet up at the Bishop Gun Club and do some weapons ops??

But do feel free to admire my work that hangs in his Kitchen/Dining room.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:42pm PT
Thought so, also have seen it, not impressed.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:44pm PT
Apparently KD is, so that's all that matters.

EDIT: PS, that's NOT what he told me last time we spoke about it and me making another one for him. He flat out said "Everyone thinks it's rad!"

So that most assuredly must include you in that "everyone". You just do not want to admit it here. Then that of course would make you a.....


EDIT EDIT... I am most likely outta here anyhow and on my way up to N Idaho.

Far too many of you Left Wing Extremist coming around trying to convert them local hardcore REDNECK MOFO's that have generations of gun owning cattle ranching family roots in these parts.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:50pm PT
Your right Cheif, I live near the border-can you please send help ASAP!

These Mexicans are catapulting pregnant ladies over the fence and when they hit the ground, the women projectile birth their babies straight into free clinics, paid for, exclusively by right wingers. They then, get a non-competitive clause by local governments that allow them to claim a white man's job of their choosing.

It's bad dude, really! There's leaf blowers and Pine Sol everywhere!!!

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:52pm PT
"So that most assuredly must include you in that "everyone". You just do not want to admit it here. Then that of course would make you a....."


He posted it on Facebook, Next time I'll run and tell Kevin my every thought.

Your brain works in a very strange way. You are so use to yelling at Navy boy's you think you can get away in everyday life.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:53pm PT
"These Mexicans are catapulting pregnant ladies over the fence and when they hit the ground"

Got to get those "anchor babies" over here somehow.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:53pm PT
when they hit the ground, the women projectile birth their babies straight into free clinics, paid for, exclusively by right wingers. They then, get a non-competitive clause by local governments that allow them to claim a white man's job of their choosing.

Did I ever say such a thing. NOT.

But while you're bullshetting...... I am pretty sure someone with the time and desire can certainly post up the stats on this one of many well thought out shetfest fuk them Repubs threads here on ST.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:55pm PT
"Apparently KD is, so that's all that matters.

EDIT: PS, that's NOT what he told me last time we spoke about it and me making another one for him. He flat out said "Everyone thinks it's rad!"

So that most assuredly must include you in that "everyone". You just do not want to admit it here. Then that of course would make you a.....


EDIT EDIT... I am most likely outta here anyhow and on my way up to N Idaho."


So if is all that matters (KD) why do you continue to spout off?



Oh I'm so scared now Chief.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 04:58pm PT
Cus your sorry whiney ass is still here... fun times Big BOBBYDA!

And you know you want a six to eight footer just like that one in KD's kitchen in your living room. You know it!



How about them weapon Ops at the Bishop Range when you are in town BOBda??
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 7, 2015 - 05:01pm PT
projectile birth

Does this mean we can start with the post-natal abortions?
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Sep 7, 2015 - 05:31pm PT
Does this mean we can start with the post-natal abortions?

High School moment: There was a bad cartoon in the stash of my step-father's Hustler magazines that showed a mother in the act of matricide saying:

"Sorry, Daniel - your mother believes in retroactive birth control."

Edit: vvv Damn, The Chief - you are twisted! It was just a cartoon...from 35 years ago!
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 05:37pm PT
So does that mean Mister E that she put a round of hurt via fake rape charges onto the drunk ass bastard that she allowed to inseminate her during her drunken/acid upped stupor?

EDIT: I am twisted Mister E... it was your "twisted" post, ie the Hustler Cartoon, that I was responding to.

Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 7, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
Chief:

I feel like Donald has pigeonholed Mexicans into negative and narrow stereotypes and your right on board. Let's discuss the full spectrum of economic, scientific, political and cultural contributions that Mexicans have brought to our society.

I'll start:,Have you ever smoked a fat bowl (perhaps from Mexico), followed by a carne asada burrito? MMMM!

Chief: Your relegated to Der Wienerschnitchel.
Norton

Social climber
Sep 7, 2015 - 06:44pm PT
Nice to see that everyone is finally getting along...

oh no

Bob replaced you in your absence so a target was always being fired upon

Cus your sorry whiney ass is still here... fun times Big BOBBYDA!

welcome back Locker, you can resume your rightful place as Rick's "entertainment"
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 06:51pm PT
So LOcker... wtf are you doing resoling shoes after spending four years formerly studying photog the same time I first joined the Navy???

Seriously!!! No sarcasm nor will I give you shet.

Just curious...


rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Goldenville west of Lurkerville
Sep 7, 2015 - 06:55pm PT
can't we just cup...?
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 06:59pm PT
So it's safe to assume you did your FBI gigs as a photog etc?

Did you work County or Private as a DAC/CDC... interesting.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Sep 7, 2015 - 06:59pm PT
I agree with Bernie.

http://expose.today/us/politics/bernie-sanders-rips-trump-for-attacks-on-immigrants/



Reality,try it sometime.

Ready?........LOL.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
Way to go Locker.



Larry Nelson

Social climber
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
Some folks here should have spent their day off with mother nature instead of on a political thread.
But now that I'm sucked in.

Citing TGT's link:
If 25% of blacks vote Trump vs Hillary or Bernie,it would devastate democrats

Maybe so many blacks would go with Trump because black unemployment/under employment is 51%. The great economic recovery that some here trumpet isn't happening for those who need it most.

Here's Bernie kinda trashing Obama's policy failure's in jobs for blacks.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/13/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-says-real-unemployment-rate-african/

Craig,
I don't think your characterization of communists as right wingers is correct.
Here's a Wiki link on left / right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics

The terms liberal and conservative can get confusing also, especially for me.
For example, Progressive political positions on economics are the opposite of economic liberalism, while conservatives in this country support economic liberalism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalism

The whole left wing right wing model of determining political positions is way outdated.

The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:06pm PT
Just curious .... I did all my CDC stuff as a vol in SO Central, in the SJ Valley and then around here locally etc. Most of it with Banger/ARY Programs. 10 or so years total.

Now I just help out local Vets in need. Mostly Vietnam "Native" dudes.

That is why I asked if you worked county or private.

Thanks


Carry on with the Shetfest Politard "FUK Trump" stuff.... hooooooooooooya!


The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:13pm PT
Gave that up as well LOcker... Cupping kills.

BTW, them Native VV dudes, oh man are they ever gone and way fked. Do the best I can but you know how that goes.

Had an hour phone conversation with one this afternoon... bad!!!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:16pm PT
the Chief used my name as an insult 26 times today alone!!!!
Wow, could he be obsessed with me or what...

he is obsessed with smearing all the people that don't go along with his intolerant views

the right wing default, smear your political enemy.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:18pm PT
Larry, when birding early this AM, when bouldering with the wife and then took the dog for a long walk in the mountains this evening.

New problem, maybe B1.



Also saw this cool Virginia Rail.

The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:20pm PT
And Hillary is a lying sack of egotistical dogshet. Just like her Hubby...

Same words, different mouth 20 years later. How Ironic.

[Click to View YouTube Video]



Can't wait for these same words to be uttered outta Hildabeasts (<<<- Craig Fry approves) mouth in a couple of months... HA!

[Click to View YouTube Video]
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:21pm PT
Chile Rellenos, squeezed lime margarita on the rocks with some Agold blunts for dessert........,I mean c'mon.


Trump could really ruin some things for the common person.


Great looking rock there ,Bob!


zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:22pm PT
Ah did not have inappropriate sexshul ralations with Ensign O'Tool, but I know who did
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:23pm PT
Communist Russia and Red China are right wing ruled totalitarian, authoritarian cultures, there is no liberalism or progressivism in the modern communistic countries
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:25pm PT
LOcker,,, I went and put 50 rounds of 12g 1675fps 1oz down range AND on target early this AM behind my house, spoke to and tried to encourage a local drunk/suicidal Native VV for an hour, and came on here, ST, and Played TAG, Your IT! With you and a couple of others.

What else should one do on Labor day.


Communist Russia and Red China are right wing ruled totalitarian

Gee, then Ronnie had to have been a liberal progressive and all. You know, getting that Right WIng COMMIE wall to come down and all as well as the COMMIE society etc.
couchmaster

climber
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:32pm PT

"Somebody" sounds like they are not ready for Donald. Hint ^^^^**cough* Werner * cough***^^^ Haha!
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:35pm PT
Hey Bob,
Good on you. Getting on the rock, smelling the flowers puts it all in perspective.
Sometimes any of us can get a little passionate on the political stuff. Being a climbers forum, we all have more in common than we sometimes think.

Craig,
Check this Wiki link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics

From the link:
There is general agreement that the Left includes: anarchists, anti-capitalists, anti-imperialists, autonomists, communists, democratic-socialists, feminists, greens, left-libertarians, progressives, secularists, socialists, social-democrats and social-liberals.[5][6][7]

There is also general consensus that the Right includes: capitalists, conservatives, fascists, monarchists, nationalists, neoconservatives, neoliberals, reactionaries, right-libertarians, social-authoritarians, theocrats and traditionalists.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:36pm PT
Sarah Palin Supports Ohio Bill That Would Ban Abortions For Down Syndrome

Critics of the bill say it likely violates Roe v. Wade.

Posted: 09/06/2015 05:11 PM EDT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sarah-palin-abortions-down-syndrome_55eca22ae4b093be51bbc0eb


WASHINGTON -- Sarah Palin urged Ohio lawmakers to pass a state bill that would bar women from getting abortions solely because they do not wish to have a baby with Down syndrome, claiming on Sunday that society has pressured women into such abortions.


"Culture has told these women ... you're not capable of being able to handle and nurture and love and raise a child with special needs," the 2008 GOP vice presidential nominee said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

The Ohio legislature is currently considering the bill, which has been endorsed by the National Right to Life Committee. Because a majority of the legislators are anti-abortion and have received support from anti-abortion activists in Ohio, the bill is likely to pass and head to Gov. John Kasich’s desk for his signature. Kasich, a GOP presidential hopeful, has yet to take a position, but he has supported numerous anti-abortion measures in the past.


I checked it out Larry
Are you saying Putin and Mao are Liberals or left wingers?
No they aren't, they are authoritarian totalitarian right wingers despots that took over the communist country, so the link you site is wrong.

Communism was traditionally left wing, since it's how our society evolved, communally, but communism has been corrupted by right wingers, just like Christianity
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:40pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

Sep 7, 2015 - 07:36pm PT

Are you saying Putin and Mao are Liberals or left wingers?
No they aren't, they are authoritarian totalitarian right wingers despots that took over the communist country, so the link you site is wrong.




Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
^^^^
27 posts using my name as an insult today alone

I guess it's a sickness

Stupid Merican

climber
Crankloon, OH
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:44pm PT
You politarded loons will just finish off humanity by flushing it down the drain.

Stoopid Americans .....

Now your starting to get me rialed up.

Whats you're problem WBraun?

The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:46pm PT
Hey C-FRY!


Check this out...

Gee, then Ronnie had to have been a liberal progressive and all. You know, getting that Right WIng COMMIE wall to come down and all as well as the COMMIE society etc.

Thanks for confirming that C-Fry!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:47pm PT
Great day Larry, I'm lucky to live where I do, access to so many great outdoor spots.


Another new B1...long live rock.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:51pm PT
There are a few people who post on this forum who really, REALLY, need to get out more.

The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:55pm PT
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Sep 7, 2015 - 07:56pm PT
Going to reporst this so it's at the top of a page...

There are a few people who post on this forum who really, REALLY, need to get out more.

The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:02pm PT
The day before yesterday....




Too bad old C-Fry is stuck in OC watching them Housewives show... all day long.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:02pm PT
I am one of them
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:03pm PT
One more new one today. You don't have to go to 11k to get solitude.



I'm one too Willbeer.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:05pm PT
My partner took the shot.... I was too busy trying to hang onto a 15"er using 6X.


So are those considered.. ROUTES BOBda? Are you adding them to your goal of 2500? Do them routes in the 2k so far include bump routes as the ones above??


They look way, fking hard.












Except, I have to do shet like most every other day to get to the "Holes" I work in order to get to them Monster Goldens. Many times in full on Waders... WTF!
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:11pm PT
It's a mofo to get to LOcker. Seriously. And with all the shetsmoke hanging (not as bad as C-Fry's posts but) makes it that much more of a hump.




moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland

Sep 7, 2015 - 08:09pm PT
Locker, are you sure those are actually balls???

Why are you asking MOOOSE!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:13pm PT
"So are those considered.. ROUTES BOBda? Are you adding them to your goal of 2500? Do them routes in the 2k so far include bump routes as the ones above??"


You couldn't climb them so what does it matter to you.


zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:14pm PT


The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:14pm PT
Bullshet... You'd be getting the county John Deere with the bucket full of trash and have em dump it at the base and save the busted glass for the top out.

Make it that much more.. challenging.



You couldn't climb them so what does it matter to you.

Who'd want to.... Looks like the shet the KinDers play on at the local Bishop park.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:16pm PT
ZBrown, I think that is "Door #4". Very few people have seen it, and you may be the only one who has walked through it.

If you did walk through it.

What was on the other side?
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:18pm PT
Go fuking DROOL somewhere else...

Can't you see I'm busy cupping The Chiefs balls???...

I just spewed my beverage on that one!

LOfukinL!!!
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:19pm PT
Hey BOBda.. I suggest that at that rate, you just get one of these and put it in your living room

That way you don't get your silly ass bit by a rattler....



Chump Trump approves....
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:20pm PT
"Who'd want to.... Looks like the shet the KinDers play on at the local Bishop park."

With your stature, short and stubby you would have a difficult time getting your feet off the ground.

edit: Looks like they are having fun, you should try it sometime. Looks like they would be highballs for you.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:21pm PT
"What was on the other side?"...

Just what you would expect. A shoe commercial?


Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:26pm PT
"Short man syndrome, or Napoleon Complex, is the thought that shorter men are overly-aggressive and overcompensate for their height. A few theories have debunked this theory, however there might actually be some pros and cons to being short."


The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:27pm PT
With your stature, short and stubby you would have a difficult time getting your feet off the ground.

Difficult, maybe.

But I surely wouldn't be posting shet photos like your last shot of you desperately trying to find a spot to pinch off a burrito loafer. Next time you post hysterical 1-2-3'ers like that with your ass hanging out in the wind, the least you could do is wear a pair of britches without any skid marks.. seriously dude!

Because you are whining like a bitch, Da Chief!
1.3/10... tops.

Try again Moose. The boys aint buying it.


While your bullshetting Moose, when's the last time you got that Trump wanna be do rag of yours, re-dyed!


Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:31pm PT
I like the photo.


Funny...some people recover from addictions and move on and become quite stable and fun to be around and live a happy life. Others end up like the Chief. Angry as hell. Sad.


How long you been sober chief??



Moose is now the new host.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:40pm PT
Others end up like the Chief. Angry as hell.

You'd be pissed as hell too if I posted up some ass shot with skid marks on my britches.

Sober, stoned or drunk, that's just downright NOT cool... BOBda.



EDIT: I'd take them BOBda look alike glasses off or else your gonna be getting them TRUMP Raccoon Eyes. Then you'd definitely be shot at the Face Lift for looking like .... Chump Trump.


Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:41pm PT
Jim wrote: Does you sense of what's best concerning policy devolve into making fun of short people ?



No Jim, just making fun of the Chief but CMac can delete my posts anytime he wants.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:44pm PT
No Jim, just making fun of the Chief.

At least your using the correct Upper casing. Finally.... gdamn!

Out of here... Going to look at some properties in NWestern Montana. Lots of 4X4 Chevy's, Dodges, Fords, guns, open and concealed carry etc and where Pruis's are shot up for gp. Yippy.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:45pm PT
You mean like this Chief? "I'd take them BOBda look alike glasses off or else your gonna be getting them TRUMP Raccoon Eyes


The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:50pm PT
OK, gotta respond to that....

Are you saying you approve of Moose looking like Chump Trump? Or, that you actually own and wear a pair of sg's such as the ones he is wearing, today on his ride up the "G" in Heavenly?

Allow me to repost this video. Obvious that Hildabeast is memorizing these exact words. Only, get rid of the sex part for that is not in her repertoire as verified by Bill for getting into this mess in the first place some 20 years ago...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 08:53pm PT
The Chief seems to quite smitten by Moose and me.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:00pm PT
ANd last but not least... short "munchkin" shet... oh yeah. Last laugh.

Go to min 7:19... toooo funnee.


[Click to View YouTube Video]



Gnight BBda.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:08pm PT
So this is why it's called Labor Day?
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:13pm PT
The degeneration of this thread is so "Trump".

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Still laughing...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:14pm PT
Has nothing to do to height, mental midget.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 7, 2015 - 09:20pm PT
AH.... different tactic BBda. Height didn't work so let's do the old "mental miget" trick.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM

Sep 7, 2015 - 09:14pm PT
Has nothing to do to height, mental midget.

One hell of an oxymoron post, know what I mean BBda.

You go Boy!



The degeneration of this thread is so "Trump".

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

Still laughing...

Me too Mr. E. Seeing as you played a nice part in it, today, with your "twisted" input.


I have been rolling on the floor since 11am.


Perfect.... Who the fk needs a tv when you got you clowns. And of course Chump Trump...Outstanding.
timy

Sport climber
Durango
Sep 8, 2015 - 07:00am PT
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/09/sunniest-climate-change-story-ever-read.html

The only obstacle on earth are American Republicans
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 8, 2015 - 12:41pm PT
Current research, underway as we speak, is evaluating the impact of recordings of the T-Man's speeches.

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 8, 2015 - 01:01pm PT
At least the whacko Kentucky clerk who was refusing to issue gay marriage licenses got out of jail earlier.

This is from the judge's order freeing her from the captivity he had earlier imposed:
Defendant Davis shall be released from the custody of the U.S. Marshal forthwith. Defendant Davis shall not interfere in any way, directly or indirectly, with the efforts of her deputy clerks to issue marriage licenses to all legally eligible couples. If Defendant Davis should interfere in any way with their issuance, that will be considered a violation of this Order and appropriate sanctions will be considered.

Can anyone explain why the judge put her in jail in the first place, in light of the fact that the judge could have just ordered her not to interfere with issuance of the gay marriage licenses (as he has now done)?
This is the same question I asked last week. Gary gamely tried to answer and I appreciate his efforts, even though his answer contained some non sequiturs. And in any event, Gary's answer (which was something to the effect that the judge had the power to jail her, but not to ban her from the clerk's office, which is what I proposed) was clearly incorrect in light of the recent order.

I suppose the judge was just pissed off and thought putting her in jail for a few days would make him feel better. Seems like a pretty egregious violation of human rights, but what the hell, the clerk is against gay marriage, so all's good?
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 01:10pm PT
Can anyone explain why the judge put her in jail in the first place, in light of the fact that the judge could have just ordered her not to interfere with issuance of the gay marriage licenses (as he has now done)?

Amazing how no one ever thought about FIRING her stooooooooooooooopid ass. Problem solved.

What a concept!





Oh shet.. you can't, she belongs to a County Workers Union. Never mind.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 8, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
Wasn't she elected?
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 01:29pm PT
Oh shet... your right DB. My BAD!!!

No wonder she's so fuked up, HOLY SHET Almighty!


She's a DEMOCRAT!

In 2014, Bailey chose not to run for re-election.[12] Davis then ran for county clerk as a Democrat. Davis won the Democratic Party primary,[12] and advanced to the general election against Republican John Cox.[14] She defeated Cox in the general election.[12]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Davis_(county_clerk);



EDIT: The JUDGE that threw her in the Slammer is a .... ready.... REPUBLICAN!

dirtbag

climber
Sep 8, 2015 - 01:32pm PT
There are whack job democrats...


The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 01:33pm PT
dirtbag

climber

Sep 8, 2015 - 01:32pm PT
There are whack job democrats..


Ya think???

10b4me

Social climber
Sep 8, 2015 - 01:36pm PT
Amazing how no one ever thought about FIRING her stooooooooooooooopid ass.

She can't be fired. She was elected. She can be impeached, or recalled.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 8, 2015 - 01:50pm PT
Classy, chief.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 8, 2015 - 01:55pm PT
Can anyone explain why the judge put her in jail in the first place, in light of the fact that the judge could have just ordered her not to interfere with issuance of the gay marriage licenses (as he has now done)?

She was the subject of a court order. She willfully violated the court order, putting her in "contempt of court". This is similar to when an attorney appearing before a judge refused to follow an order of the court. They often are fined, but sometimes are jailed.

there have been several cases of journalists being jailed for failure to follow a court order to disclose the source of information about a crime.

This is a common thing.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 8, 2015 - 01:57pm PT
So, is there anyone on this Board who supports Kim Davis' action?

I'm hard pressed to understand the support of an agent of the gov't being able to ignore laws, and violate their oath.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 8, 2015 - 02:03pm PT
She is trying to be "civilly disobedient," which I could support in principle. However, the problem is that she's not doing it properly for her actions to qualify as a legitimate case of civil disobedience.

So, no sympathy from me on this one. This isn't even going to play out as a good "test case" going forward. She has too muddied the waters both personally and strategically.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 8, 2015 - 02:07pm PT
She was the subject of a court order. She willfully violated the court order, putting her in "contempt of court". This is similar to when an attorney appearing before a judge refused to follow an order of the court. They often are fined, but sometimes are jailed.

there have been several cases of journalists being jailed for failure to follow a court order to disclose the source of information about a crime.

This is a common thing.

There is a critical difference between ordering journalist to jail until he or she discloses a source and the judge's order to jail the clerk:
 in the case of the journalist, the purpose of putting him in jail is to force him to do something (presumably, there's no other way to get the information);
 in the case of the clerk, there was no need to put her in jail, because all the judge needed to do was to order not to interfere, which is what he did today.

To put in another way: what's the difference between today and Friday, as far as the contempt order is concerned? The clerk didn't do anything to get released; the judge just apparently realized that there was no reason to jail her in the first place.

It's true that the clerk has no right to do what she's done, but normally we don't put people in jail for failing to perform their job (except if the failure amounts to a crime, and then we need a full trial, where the rights of the defendant are zealously protected).

Judges have certain limited contempt powers, but I'm not seeing how they were properly invoked in this case.

Edit: And no, I do not support the clerk's actions--I hope she's impeached and, if there is any legal way to do it, forced to return the salary she's collected when she was refusing to do her job.

I just don't like seeing people put in jail for no good reason--seems like the reason she got put in jail here was she pissed off the judge.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 02:09pm PT
Why in Gods name would a Democrat ever think of doing such a stoooooooooooopid thing.

She is an elected official that is mandated by law to follow the law, regardless any of her stoooooooooooooooopid Democratic principals... ie, the Bible, religious beliefs etc.

She should have been immediately impeached and the Asst County Clerk put in her spot.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 8, 2015 - 02:10pm PT
She doesn't get any sympathy from me, but then if we are really going to apply the same standards universally the mayor of every "sanctuary city" should be in jail too.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 8, 2015 - 02:12pm PT
Blah blah, I see your point, but there is much we don't know about the case, such as the remedy that the plaintiff asked for, and the controlling laws.

The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 02:13pm PT
She doesn't get any sympathy form me, but then if we are really going to apply the same standards universally the mayor of every "sanctuary city" should be in jail too.

OH that won't happen even though they too are doing precisely the exact same thing... NOT FOLLOWING THE LAW OF THE LAND.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 02:23pm PT
Precisely Locker.

Why is it then that per TGT's post, the City Council, County Sheriff and Mayor of San Francisco are getting a PASS for doing precisely the exact same thing that this dumbass in KY has done.

Anyone???
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 02:52pm PT
No stab needed.



But maybe you can stab it up and let's see your answer. Ricky.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 8, 2015 - 03:01pm PT
Amazing how no one ever thought about FIRING her stooooooooooooooopid ass. Problem solved.

What a concept!





Oh shet.. you can't, she belongs to a County Workers Union. Never mind.
**


Why yes. He wanted to wake her from her misguided web building stupor.

It's what some folks like to term a wake-up call.
**

She was the subject of a court order. She willfully violated the court order, putting her in "contempt of court". This is similar to when an attorney appearing before a judge refused to follow an order of the court. They often are fined, but sometimes are jailed.

there have been several cases of journalists being jailed for failure to follow a court order to disclose the source of information about a crime.

This is a common thing.

Edit: Choose one from column/row a or b or c (a not so random sample of reasons).


JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 8, 2015 - 03:06pm PT
So, is there anyone on this Board who supports Kim Davis' action?

I doubt it. As pointed out above, I find it somewhat surprising that she is a Democrat but as I stated much earlier, no political party has a monopoly on stupid supporters.

As to the Chief's issue of differential treatment of sanctuary city officials, those officials are not the subject of a court order. In any case, litigants normally are not entitled to an order enjoining the defendant from violating the law. The clerk was ordered to issue the marriage licenses. If a court ordered, e.g., the police chief of the City and County of San Francisco to arrest all persons found to be residing in the U.S. without proper documentation and turn them over to ICE, and the police chief refused, jail for contempt may be appropriate.

The whole idea of detention for civil contempt is that "the defendant holds the keys to the jail," meaning that if the defendant will comply with the order, the defendant is entitled to immediate release. Once it becomes clear that the defendant will not comply, the matter becomes one of criminal law, and the defendant has all of the usual protections available to any other criminal defendant. These include the ban against cruel and unusual punishment and excessive bail, the right to a jury trial, the right to confront witnesses, the privilege against self-incrimination, the presumption of innocence, and the guilty beyond a reasonable doubt standard of proof.

But it makes for a good side show. All of which supports my Zaphod Beeblebrox theory of both the Trump candidacy and contemporary popular news media reporting.

John

Edit: zBrown, your examples involve both civil and criminal contempt. When reporters are jailed for refusing to reveal sources, it is almost always a civil contempt matter. When attorneys are fined, it is usually a criminal contempt matter (although an infraction rather than a misdemeanor or felony).
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 8, 2015 - 03:26pm PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]


The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 03:34pm PT
those officials are not the subject of a court order.

Thank you, John.

So John E.

What then is the difference between Federal Law/s that is/are and has/have been on the books, and this particular, "court order".

Are they not both... "The Law of the Land" as so many now cry that this particular POTUS court order is and are to be adhered to in the same fashion.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 8, 2015 - 04:04pm PT
By all means, turn this into Civics 101. You certainly need it...

Probably lots of us do.

From the judge's point of view at least, there is a difference between violating whatever random thought seems like a good idea to the judge and which he or she issues as an order (and so you go to jail if you violate) and violating something as trivial as the Constitution or a law enacted by Congress and signed by the president (which, if you violate, may or may not get you into trouble, but won't subject you to contempt). But sarcasm side, there is a difference--the judge's order is (hopefully) clear and direct, and you know if you violate it, you're going to be in trouble. It's kind of like a "final warning."

One may wonder why the various municipal officials who violate federal law in connection with operating "sanctuary cities" aren't hailed into court--I don't know enough about it to even hazard a guess, except perhaps the Obama administration doesn't seek such orders?
(But sanctuary cities have been around a long time, and I haven't heard of other administrations seeking to enjoin the sanctuary cities.)
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 8, 2015 - 04:24pm PT
What I don't get about all these religious zealots is if they truly believe that their god is going to pronounce some sort of judgement when a person dies, why do they feel the need to stick their nose in god's business? Isn't one of the BIG CHRISTIAN TENETS "judge not lest ye be judged?"

So this whackadoodle doesn't want her name on the license; does she think her god's going to whip out his laptop on her judgement day and say "sorry, I know you despised this union in your heart of hearts, but you did sign the document... NO ETERNAL PARADISE FOR YOU!"

I actually feel sort of sad for her kind when they finally come to the end of life and for one brief moment realize god is just a concept by which we measure our pain. Game over, back to dust
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
Thank you Blah!

You bring up another very wayward concept that prevails in this nation at the gov't level.

Federal Laws are on the books. Not till a "judge" orders one to comply with that law does it seem to be enforced.

Why?

In regards to the Sanctuary City issue, does it take a Federal Judge imposing his/her authority and tell them cities to conform to the law prior to any consequences being imposed on the violating city officials?
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 8, 2015 - 04:41pm PT
Federal Laws are on the books. Not till a "judge" orders one to comply with that law does it seem to be enforced.

Why?

In regards to the Sanctuary City issue, does it take a Federal Judge imposing his/her authority and tell them cities to conform to the law prior to any consequences being imposed on the violating city officials?

Here's my stab at a civics like answer:
We theoretically have a system of checks and balances--Congress could pass laws in effect punishing "Sanctuary Cities" (withholding taxes--the paradigmatic example is Congress in effect forcing each of the States to raise the drinking age to 21, or face ruinous financial penalties).
Then it would be up to the executive branch to enforce those laws.
Courts should only come into play if there is some dispute about the application of the law, or perhaps to punish those who flagrantly violate the law (as in the case of our KY clerk).

Now as to why the federal government won't enforce the laws that are already on the books--that's a good question that I can't really answer.
We know that Obama has the power to suspend application of Obamacare whenever he feels like it. So it seems that the president can disregard whatever laws, or portions of laws, that he wants to, even when he was instrumental in the law's passing!

Are there limits to the president's power to ignore laws? I don't know. But I don't think it's a complete coincidence that our current president is both an "expert" in Constitutional Law (i.e., of the extreme left wing view of how the Constitution should be interpreted and applied) and seems to have utter contempt for carrying out the version of civics we learned in high school (where the president is in fact charged with enforcing the laws).
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 04:46pm PT
Fact is that the city of SF violates Fed Law when they do not call ICE, notify them of an illegal with a US felony criminal past open record that they have detained and have them, per that law, come and pick their ass up for violating federal immigration laws.

In other words, harboring a felony fugitive. Pretty much cut and dry. Civics 101.

But nothing happens.


EDIT:

The answer.... The KY shetfest has to do with Civil and Individual Rights SCOTUS decisions as does the Sanctuary City shetfest has to do with Federal Regulations/laws that can be ignored by state officials due to a 97' SCOTUS Individual Rights decision.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 8, 2015 - 05:55pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

A law lesson from Princeton
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 8, 2015 - 06:02pm PT

What then is the difference between Federal Law/s that is/are and has/have been on the books, and this particular, "court order".

Are you really so stupid, or just a poor excuse for trolling?
Norton

Social climber
Sep 8, 2015 - 06:07pm PT
now now Ken

it is unreasonable to expect everyone to know the difference between the legislative, which votes on and passes laws, and the Judicial branch of our government which interprets and enforces


heck, most people can't even name their own state US Senators, Ken, you expect too much
from folks on a climbing forum
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Sep 8, 2015 - 06:14pm PT
Cool map of sanctuary cities.

http://cis.org/Sanctuary-Cities-Map
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 06:16pm PT
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca

Sep 8, 2015 - 06:02pm PT

What then is the difference between Federal Law/s that is/are and has/have been on the books, and this particular, "court order".

Are you really so stupid,

Ken M AND Norton.... nice of you both to exasperate your overwhelming monster egos. So fuking typical.

Fact is dipshet, as I posted in my EDIT, both issues I suggested are governed by a SCOTUS decision.

Thus Norton and you are both, well, let's just say, "so stupid" as you cup one another's lips.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Sep 8, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
One may wonder why the various municipal officials who violate federal law in connection with operating "sanctuary cities" aren't hailed into court--I don't know enough about it to even hazard a guess, except perhaps the Obama administration doesn't seek such orders?

Let's be clear on the difference between your example and this Kentucky fiasco, since comparing them is obviously the latest Fox News tactic. If you personally feel that you are being denied any of your civil rights as a result of an official in a sanctuary city failing to enforce immigration law, you can bring a case against that official. If you won, and they still declined to do their job and prevented others from doing so either, in violation of a court order, they should go to jail.

That's what happened in Kentucky, this moron denied someone's civil rights, that couple went to court and got a court order. She appealed, she lost. She appealed to SCOTUS, she failed. She could have asked the governor from day one to take her name off the licenses, or asked for any of several possible reasonable accommodations, she didn't, she simply threw a tantrum, she wants to be a martyr and she will take Jindal, Rubio, Huckabee and Cruz down with her.

Donald begins to seem like the sensible candidate.

TE
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 06:20pm PT
Yes... and because of an Individual Rights decision in 1997 by a majority SCOTUS (Brady Law) decision, local LEO's do NOT have to follow Fed Regs or Laws that they feel violates an individuals rights. Thus the Sheriff of SF does not have to hand over an illegal with a criminal felony record to the Feds if he feels he is doing the same. That is supposedly the "SCOTUS case law" decision that the city of SF and the sheriff are citing.

EDIT: BUT, the question at hand is since when does a non-US Citizen get afforded the same rights and protections under the Constitution as does a US Cit.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 8, 2015 - 06:34pm PT
"Today, the tax code is a labyrinth littered with thousands of special-interest giveaways, subsidies and other breaks written to favor Washington insiders," wrote Bush. "At 80,000 pages, it's a tax code only an army of tax accountants and lobbyists could love — because they've written it."

Bush said he wants to create a tax code that is "simple, fair and clear," and predicts it will help the U.S. economy grow faster.

My 5-part tax plan involves reforming the income tax. The government confiscates way too much of your paycheck. The tax code is also a very complicated system that forces Americans to waste 6.1 billion hours a year trying to figure it out.
What does that tell you? It tells me that it's time we restore simplicity & sanity to the income tax. Here's my income tax plan:
•Up to $30,000, you pay 1%
•From $30,000 to $100,000, you pay 5%
•From $100,000 to $1 million, you pay 10%
•On $1 million or above, you pay 15%
It's clear and fair. Best of all, it can be filled out on the back of a postcard and will save Americans big bucks on accountants and massive amounts of time wasted attempting to decipher the tax code.
Our country is hungry for real tax reform. That's why we should implement the 1-5-10-15 income tax plan. And we need to enact [the rest of] my 5-part tax policy: kill the death tax; lower the tax on capital gains & dividends; eliminate corporate taxes; and a 20% import tax.

TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Sep 8, 2015 - 07:34pm PT
EDIT: BUT, the question at hand is since when does a non-US Citizen get afforded the same rights and protections under the Constitution as does a US Cit.

Since 1787. Not once does "citizen" appear in the Bill of Rights, and apart from voting and related matters, only one minor detail in Article IV applies uniquely to citizens.

All "the people" or "person(s)" within the jurisdiction have almost all the same rights and protections, whether citizen or not. Courts have whittled that down a little since 1787, but not much.

TE
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 8, 2015 - 07:36pm PT
but that would make them people, Eddie. Jayzus. It's rapists, murders, masturbators and other subhuman filth - let's get this straight - that you want to treat, well, y'know, fairly?
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 07:40pm PT
^^^^^^^^If that is true, then why do most prosecuted "criminal" immigrants simply get deported back to the home of origin then stay in conus to complete the same judicial process as we "citizens" must abide by.

May I add, ONLY to return to the conus repeatedly illegally and often reoffend.

Seems pretty "double standardish" don't you think.

EDIT:

Cases in point (Which there are far more than you could ever imagine)...


ETC ETC ETC ETC ETC...........................
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Goldenville west of Lurkerville
Sep 8, 2015 - 07:43pm PT
The Chief....Are you referring to the conus of silence...?
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 8, 2015 - 07:46pm PT
now now Ken

it is unreasonable to expect everyone to know the difference between the legislative, which votes on and passes laws, and the Judicial branch of our government which interprets and enforces

Norton, you don't have the separation of powers quite right.
Just remember what they taught us in high school:
legislative branch passes the laws;
executive branch enforces the laws;
judicial branch interprets the laws.

It's executive branch that enforces the laws (or, in the case of Obama, chooses not to enforce the laws, which still seems a little off to me, but what do I know).

zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 8, 2015 - 07:46pm PT
pinche conus sa - get a life


zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 8, 2015 - 07:51pm PT
Can I get some sanctuary in Kentucky?

The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 07:54pm PT
Pretty interesting how Zbrown makes light of someone elses brutal demise.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiice Zbrown. Nice...

You'd probably be posting in the same fashion had this been your....

A man who entered the country illegally beat a 64-year-old California woman to death with a hammer after raping her inside her own home, police said — the latest incident to fuel a mounting fury against illegal immigration.

Marilyn Pharis died eight days after suffering serious head injuries in the brutal attack, Santa Maria police said.

Her death comes one month after a San Francisco woman was gunned down on a popular pier. Another undocumented immigrant is charged in the July death of Kate Steinle.

Victor Aureliano Martinez — a 29-year-old undocumented immigrant who was arrested six times in 15 months — faces first-degree murder, mayhem, torture and rape charges in Pharis’ death, KEYT reported. Just two weeks before the fatal attack, he was arrested for possessing meth, police said.

But then Zbrown. you most assuredly understand what this dude was thinking while completed this deed.

Being a Meth head and all....
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Goldenville west of Lurkerville
Sep 8, 2015 - 07:55pm PT
Kentucky...? That looks like Chalfant Valley....
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 07:57pm PT
Bullshet RJ.... looks just like the Mammoth Lakes Von's Parking lot this past weekend when them Hipster Burners rolled through with all their wanna be tats.

Do I have to remind you of what Chalfant Valley actually looks like....


Them 150's are headed right your way, RJ.

Here we are last week preparing for the upcoming El Nino event ...
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 8, 2015 - 08:01pm PT
Take another opiodpill, brodog.

[url="lhttp://archive.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20100728/NEWS01/100728019/Convicted-killer-McCollum-says-he-scapegoat"]lhttp://archive.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20100728/NEWS01/100728019/Convicted-killer-McCollum-says-he-scapegoat[/url]

Where was the outrage, Chuffer? Oh wait, don't care, gotsa climb and thesisize and stuff. But yeah, messicans aint the only rapists in the world eh?


No need for the reply, just pack another groundup pill in yer lip like chaw and spew on. Spew on, spew on
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Goldenville west of Lurkerville
Sep 8, 2015 - 08:07pm PT
Right Chief...I'll take the 150's over tourist any day and there should be an age limit for tats...Granny with the dove tat on her ankle gets my hackles up in a sickly way...
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 08:07pm PT
Popping the popcorn now cowBoyscout...


Chickens and Bulls.


WTF does that have to do with Sanctuary Cities harboring repeated offender fugitives that end up murdering and raping and.... Twelve such "documented" incidents throughout the nation in the past 90 or so days. Notice I stated "documented". Many such incidents go unreported so as not to Offend anyone.



EDIT: With all that spewing you speak of, appears you are cupping the local llama population way too hard. Tomorrow when you return to them llama's, imagine that them llama nuts are your skull, cowBoyscout. Might help with the spewing....

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 8, 2015 - 08:10pm PT
Aw, Chuffy gettin the popcorn like he cares about social issues. Cute.


Off to eat some vegan pussy.
The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 08:13pm PT
Off to eat some vegan pussy.

Stay away from that granny old RJ was speaking about. We don't want to have to deal with another one of your past relationships posting some thread about how much of a ducshe bag that you supposedly truly are in ... real time.

Know what I mead cowBoyscout. Now where's that hilarious thread.....
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 8, 2015 - 08:15pm PT
Aww chief, I eat wnough of your sh#t for you to tell me about coprophagia. Tell me more about the past, buddy.


Edit: seriously, braj, ain't no scout here, not past Webelo. Cute, once more. Cute.


Doubke edit to match the chuffer: it's alpacas man. Alpacas got them smaller scroti, y'know for the cuppin'.


The Chief

climber
Lurkerville east of Goldenville
Sep 8, 2015 - 08:19pm PT
Don't flatter yourself cuboyscout.


That answers the spewing issue cuBoyscout. At least your coming around.

Now go get some of that rotting vegan wanna be putang and then come back and tell us the typical lies about...


Op! The popcorns ready...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Goldenville west of Lurkerville
Sep 8, 2015 - 08:21pm PT
LMAO...
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Sep 8, 2015 - 08:23pm PT
One mkre for the chuff: my hippy ass vegan pussyeati g alpacanut cuppin' hippy vote gon' cancel yours
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 9, 2015 - 07:43am PT
Someone who doesn't swallow The Chief Kool-Aid automatically favors murder.
Interesting "thought process" (for a spider).

Just a random draw. Kentucky. And yes, Ralph could show his papers.

Ralph Blaze


Classification: Murderer
Characteristics: To avoid arrest
Number of victims: 2
Date of murders: January 30, 1992
Date of arrest: Same day
Date of birth: July 1, 1955
Victims profile: Sheriff Steven Bennett and Deputy Sheriff Arthur Briscoe
Method of murder: Shooting (SKS assault rifle)
Location: Rowan County, Kentucky, USA
Status: Sentenced to death on February 4, 1994

Status: Still on death row 2008
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 9, 2015 - 11:00am PT

picture is dope!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 9, 2015 - 08:59pm PT
what is great about this religious movement is that religious people can now refuse to issue gun licenses, or even the licenses required for shipping firearms to dealers, on the basis of their deeply held belief that "Thou shall not kill".

We'll see how they enjoy the slippery slope....
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 10, 2015 - 06:49am PT
dirtbag

climber
Sep 10, 2015 - 07:07am PT
Cute ploy.

Maybe he feels regret over insulting McCain's service and dodging the draft?

He recently compared his time in military prep school to serving in war: why not send $$$ to military prep schools instead? Prep school is hell.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 10, 2015 - 07:11am PT
Trump recently remarked about Fiorina's face.


Yep, that's presidential material alright. If you like insults, trump is your guy.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Sep 10, 2015 - 07:24am PT
I park my car in a garage underneath one of the Trump Buildings. My rates have gone through the roof. Who can I complain to? Can I donate the differential to Veterans groups?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Sep 10, 2015 - 08:17am PT
You can't deny the Trump message in the letter above.

I remember when W announced Shock & Awe, he was at the same time cutting veterans benefits. Yep, that's how the GOP rolls...
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Sep 10, 2015 - 08:57am PT
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Sep 10, 2015 - 09:08am PT
Oh screw these clowns, we need someone who can get the job done. Someone with pizzazz. Someone like Rufus T. Firefly.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 10, 2015 - 09:09am PT
Anyone who points a gun at themself
even if it's unloaded and in jest and pulls the trigger.
is an idiot.

Hear, hear! Reposted for emphasis.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 10, 2015 - 10:25am PT
So what about the James Blake incident in NYC?

Was this a racist act, or what?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Sep 10, 2015 - 02:18pm PT
Gotta love those crafty Republicans!

Many people are aware that the GOP is considering attaching a rider defunding Planned Parenthood to a government spending bill, despite the fact that the public opposes and Obama would veto such a measure.

But there are many more examples [of GOP riders], including proposals that would:

    Prevent the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) from updating important air quality standards for ozone and roll back a recently finalized rule that protects clean water;
    Roll back strong net neutrality rules and prevent the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) from enforcing rules that ensure internet openness and affordability;
    Stop the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission from requiring publicly traded companies to disclose their political spending;
    Roll back financial regulations in areas ranging from protections against irresponsible mortgage lending to limits on excessive borrowing by large banks, to undermining the effectiveness of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB); and
    Eliminate any funding for the Title X Family Planning Program, cutting the preventive care—including family planning services, well-woman exams, lifesaving cancer screenings, birth control, and testing and treatments for sexually transmitted infections—that nearly 4.6 million people currently rely on.

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/09/10/get-your-ideology-out-federal-budget-178-groups-say-congress
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Sep 10, 2015 - 02:33pm PT
Pyro.... thanks for posting that.
Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Sep 10, 2015 - 05:32pm PT
Pyro +1
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Sep 10, 2015 - 06:08pm PT
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/stop-comparing-donald-trump-and-bernie-sanders/?ex_cid=538fb
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Sep 10, 2015 - 06:22pm PT
Pretty Funny,two candidates neither party likes^^^^^^
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 10, 2015 - 07:28pm PT
Can we please get this train back on track and get some sound bites.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 14, 2015 - 11:16pm PT
Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the
[Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a
terrible damn problem.

Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and
governing demand compromise.

But these Christians believe they are acting
in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried
to deal with them.

~ Barry Goldwater
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 15, 2015 - 08:02am PT
Anyone who points a gun at themself
even if it's unloaded and in jest and pulls the trigger.
is an idiot.

anybody who disrespects the gun should not have a gun.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 15, 2015 - 09:32am PT
(McCain’s) a war hero because he got captured. I like people who weren’t captured
dirtbag

climber
Sep 15, 2015 - 09:33am PT
Dirtbag...thanks for posting that.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 15, 2015 - 09:33am PT
Dirtbag + 1
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 15, 2015 - 10:05am PT
Barry Goldwater in 1994:

""The big thing is to make this country, along with every other country in the world with a few exceptions, quit discriminating against people just because they're gay," Goldwater asserts. "You don't have to agree with it, but they have a constitutional right to be gay. And that's what brings me into it."
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 16, 2015 - 04:40am PT
Al Gore may have invented the internet.

The Donald invented binary.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 16, 2015 - 04:45am PT
^^^ Naw, that's the new age signal for 666...
Captain...or Skully

climber
Boise, ID or the fricken Bakken, variously
Sep 16, 2015 - 04:57am PT
That only means something to the magic zombie crowd.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 16, 2015 - 08:13am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Sep 16, 2015 - 08:58am PT
dirtbag

climber
Sep 16, 2015 - 09:05am PT
^^^hahaha
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Sep 16, 2015 - 09:41am PT
Excellent, Edward!

John
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab or In What Time Zone Am I?
Sep 16, 2015 - 05:45pm PT
"Can't we all just get along"???????


Susan
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Sep 17, 2015 - 08:30am PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 17, 2015 - 09:37am PT
Obama is a political stranger

Donald and all the others did great
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 17, 2015 - 09:59am PT
Trump looked exhausted at the end of the evening. He was overwhelmed. He'll be history soon.

No wonder, he's been at it since 1988.

Apparently the Bushes and Clinton didn't heed his advice.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 17, 2015 - 06:22pm PT
Carlos (don't call me Federale) Fiorina

You talkin' to me dog??


Even Pito Wilson didn't warrant the piñata treatment.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Sep 17, 2015 - 06:31pm PT
Trump seemed uncomfortable all evening, and then Carly handed him his azz on a platter. Waiting for a huge excuse and he becomes a quitter.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Sep 17, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
Trump is 2,000% American you sissies can go to canada or some other third world shithole for the next eight years
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 17, 2015 - 06:50pm PT

So Canada is a shithole? Cheeky for someone so close. Donald Trump is a 2000% American idiot. I'd say you're pushing 3000%.





crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Sep 17, 2015 - 07:21pm PT
Trump and his supporters (angry, white, conservative Republicans) = ignorance and intolerance. Their summer of hate is coming to a close.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 17, 2015 - 10:53pm PT
Trump sponsored the Tour de Trump back in the early 90's...Guy can't be all bad...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 18, 2015 - 07:10am PT
Cosmic...I don't see how that's any of your concern..rj
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 18, 2015 - 07:46am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Take a tour inside Trump office!


[Click to View YouTube Video]
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 18, 2015 - 08:09am PT
MS55401,

Are you sure it's not MS55420? I think your head is already spinning and Donald hasn't even won anything yet.

I read an article about Minnesota dairy farmers recruiting Mexicans to come work their farms due to an exodus of white, youth in rural areas. I think they're coming out to California and having anchor babies.

One good thing about The Donald, the name basket for boulder problems was running a little low-no so much now.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 18, 2015 - 08:21am PT
Yes, Minnesota, white youth imigrating to California-should we only let "the good one's" stay?
dirtbag

climber
Sep 18, 2015 - 08:22am PT
I have to give Trump credit for challenging GOP conventional "wisdom" (har har har) on restructuring the tax code and making it less favorable to the ultra wealthy, in contrast with Jeb, Carson, or the other pro-voodoo economics candidates (which is all the other candidates, in fact).
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 18, 2015 - 08:46am PT
Yeah, the tax thing has me baffled, regarding Donald. I think it's a bait and switch, false promise.

The other repubs have resorted to lame code names (flat tax) to rebrand the same old supply side crap that has buried the middle class for the last 20 years. It's amazing how unpologetic they are in regards to that.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 18, 2015 - 08:57am PT
And it might not matter if it isn't bait and switch. There will be no meaningful tax reform until the right wing congress gets 86ed.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 18, 2015 - 09:01am PT
Don't hold your breath waiting for the weak sack dems to fix the tax code either...
rmuir

Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Sep 18, 2015 - 09:27am PT
Worth every penny…

The Chrome or Firefox plugin that replaces every instance of "the rich as#@&%e" with "some rich as#@&%e". Perfect. s o m e r i c h a s s h o l e . c o m

http://somerichas#@&%e.com/

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Sep 18, 2015 - 11:21pm PT
Be afraid. Be very afraid.

The last time a guy with a funny haircut called for the forcible relocation of over 10 million people of a specific ethnic group, more than a dozen nations on six of the earth's seven continents became involved in an international war.

Trump's continued rise in the polls should frighten everyone, all around the world. Many people dismissed and underestimated Adolph Hitler when he first showed up on the political scene. Like Trump, Hitler wasn't afraid to "tell it like it is", and his xenophobic rants were widely admired by similarly-minded bigots, racists and fanatics. Like Trump, Hitler claimed that his nation's problems were caused by "undesirables", and that by eliminating them, the other, "desirable" people would prosper.

It is also alarming that Trump's plan to "make Mexico pay for the wall" sounds shockingly similar to how the Nazis used ethnic slave labor to build their border defenses and to assemble their diabolical war machine. Perhaps Trump plans to seize the assets and personal property of the immigrants, to finance the wall. Or, his official policy might be to have a staff of tooth-extraction specialists harvest gold from the "losers" before sending them on their way.

Trump hasn't revealed how he plans to logistically uproot and evict those 11 million "losers" from the country, but large-scale concentration camps, padlocked railroad cars and heavily armed soldiers would seem necessary. The only thing Trump might skip is the expedient step of modifying shower heads to spray Zyklon-B instead of water.


Make no mistake about it: the fact that Trump has gained so much traction in the polls, and has attracted an admiring audience of supporters is cause for alarm. It is not surprising that some of his biggest fans are fringe groups like the Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazis and other white supremacists. Trump is saying exactly what they want to hear, and they are expecting him to follow through on his promise to ethnically cleanse the United States, and throw out the "trash". Trump has already said that he intends to also "deport" American citizens whose parents are illegal aliens ("We will keep the families together . . . ").

Whether Trump fizzles out or gets elected is almost beside the point. The primary cause for alarm is that a large swath of middle America is poised to follow a fanatic - any fanatic - towards a dark and evil future. Any of the other nutcase candidates who parrot his bigoted hate speech might get elected, instead, and then grow a funny little mustache. For example, Chris Christie has said that he wants to apply Fedex's package tracking technology to people, presumably via tattooed bar codes, or implanted RFID chips.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 19, 2015 - 08:07am PT
Be afraid. Be very afraid.

He was relevant in polls before media took him serious
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 20, 2015 - 10:56am PT
check this out.
if you have questions about politics then ask Chuck Todd..
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 20, 2015 - 11:26am PT
The primary cause for alarm is that a large swath of middle America is poised to follow a fanatic - any fanatic - towards a dark and evil future.

yep,

They just elected one twice.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 21, 2015 - 08:23am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 21, 2015 - 08:42am PT
^^^^. You go, girls! I wanna go to THEIR election partay!

Does that make me a racist?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 21, 2015 - 08:51am PT
The Rude Pundit Analysis

5. Nobody lied more than Carly Fiorina. Nearly every f*#king word out of her stupid f*#king mouth was a f*#king lie. She lied about what was in the Planned Parenthood videos. She lied about climate change. She lied about her record at Hewlett-Packard. She lied about the need for...f*#k it, she just lied. But she lied with such confidence that everyone will mistake it for truth. So of course she's the winner of the debate.

6. It's hilarious that some people feel like Fiorina took down Donald Trump. No one scratched him at all. He's impervious to any kind of criticism (and looks terrible in HD). It was like nearly all the candidates tried to rape Trump, only to discover that he had filled his ass with concrete to block penetration. They were just slamming their dicks and strap-ons into it, thinking they could chip it away. Nope.

7. What else? Rand Paul was the sanest sounding person on the stage, so of course his candidacy is dead. Ben Carson, who pissed off the Marines, was so heavily sedated it looked like he was going to start licking Donald Trump. Marco Rubio is adorable. John Kasich was there. Jeb Bush is the Incredible Disappearing Man. None of them seem to understand the nuclear deal with Iran, since everything they said wasn't in the actual agreement is in the actual agreement. None of them seem to have heard that Vladimir Putin is actively trying to get some kind of end to the fighting in Syria. - See more at: http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/#sthash.uNKagxHt.dpuf


Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 21, 2015 - 09:10am PT
I thought comics were supposed to be funny.

Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Sep 21, 2015 - 09:46am PT
I thought comics were supposed to be funny.

No, that's commies that are funny.


TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 21, 2015 - 10:24am PT
dirtbag

climber
Sep 21, 2015 - 10:36am PT
I thought comics were supposed to be funny.
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Sep 21, 2015 - 10:41am PT
I thought comics were supposed to be funny.

No, that's commies that are funny.


dirtbag

climber
Sep 21, 2015 - 10:43am PT
D'oh! Schooled again!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 21, 2015 - 11:21am PT
It's hilarious that some people feel like Fiorina took down Donald Trump. No one scratched him at all. He's impervious to any kind of criticism

what struck me most about the debate Wednesday was this is a party that has not figured out what to do with the Bush presidential legacy.. embrace it or kick it to the curb..
dirtbag

climber
Sep 21, 2015 - 11:51am PT
Interesting point pyro.

In 2010, it seemed that with the rise of the tea party and Rand Paul types, Bush's interventionist/security state legacy was being rejected.

With ISIS and other perceived threats, I think it is returning to a worldview more similar to the 2000s.

dirtbag

climber
Sep 21, 2015 - 12:13pm PT
Interesting points, jammer. It just seems to me that we heard more voices like Paul's 5 years ago than we hear now. He seems to stand out more.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Sep 21, 2015 - 12:40pm PT
Well TGT, now that you bring up Black Lives Matter, have a look at this:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Sep 21, 2015 - 12:42pm PT
everyone seems to understand that ISIS is the expected result of the Iraq/Afghanistan wars as well as Western policies in the region since 9/11.

jammer, it appears to me that really only Rand Paul and most Democrats agree with your
above statement, and that virtually all Republicans reject the idea that the Republican
foreign policy of George Bush is responsible for the creation of ISIS due to the void of instability that was left when he signed the US troop withdrawal agreement with Iraq shortly before he left office and the removal of Saddam Hussein's hated but very strong control
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 21, 2015 - 01:45pm PT
http://www.gallup.com/poll/185720/half-continue-say-gov-immediate-threat.aspx

The other half live off of welfare or go to Bernie rallies.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 21, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
Ready for Scott Walker?

Well, don't bother, because he's dropping out:

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/09/21/scott-walker-said-to-be-quitting-presidential-race


I'm going to miss him.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 21, 2015 - 08:24pm PT
Walker...Good riddance..He was anti-union but rode around Wisconsin on a union built Harley...That didn't go over to well with Harley employees...Another d#@&%e bites the big weiny...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 21, 2015 - 08:52pm PT
And walker's demise----is credited to Donald Trump!!

Perhaps two down due to him, now.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Sep 22, 2015 - 06:21am PT
Don't blame Trump. Blame Walker. He's clueless, like most of the Republicans running.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 22, 2015 - 12:16pm PT
Thinking about military strategy:

We appear to have two "hot" war opponents right now (although I'll grant that is arguable).

The Syrian regime, and ISIS.

I find it quite interesting that the two of them have been maneuvered into fighting each other. Hmmm. Perhaps the understanding of strategy in the Obama Administration is not as clueless as some would have you believe?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 22, 2015 - 12:19pm PT
Perhaps the understanding of strategy in the Obama Administration is not as clueless as some would have you believe?

Oh, it is completely clueless with regards to the ME. How else can you
explain the administration's decision to stop funding the Kurds because
the Russians are there now and Obama is afraid of starting WWIII? That's
both sac-less (sp?) and clueless.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 22, 2015 - 01:45pm PT
As I predicted, the Republican Party is ganging up to push Donald out of the race.


Scott Walker said one reason he was stepping down is so there would be less True Conservatives in the race so they can focus on taking down the front runner, Donald Trump.

What's next? Big money will start a smear campaign against him.

and you know what that means, it means that the Republican Party isn't treating THE Donald fairly, so Donald can break his pledge and run third Party!!!!

Go Donald, we all want you to run no matter how mean those Republicans are to you, Go 3rd Party.. You can WIN, you're a winner...
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 22, 2015 - 02:34pm PT
and you know what that means, it means that the Republican Party isn't treating THE Donald fairly, so Donald can break his pledge and run third Party!!!!

is this the Bull Moose party all over again?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Sep 22, 2015 - 03:49pm PT
Ben Carson, a noted creationist, said he believed the theory of evolution was encouraged by the devil.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/ben-carson-big-bang-a-fairy-tale-theory-of-evolution-encoura#.wcBYjg8RD
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 22, 2015 - 09:37pm PT
Coming from someone that eats parakeets...that's rich...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 22, 2015 - 10:07pm PT
All the poll shows is the degree the republican party has moved to the fringe right.


Personally I find it simply amazing republicans constantly foment anti-government rhetoric and then act surprised when cops start becoming targets - it's like, uh duh...
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 23, 2015 - 01:29pm PT




NEW YORK — Donald Trump says he's done appearing on Fox News shows for the "foreseeable future" because he doesn't like the network's coverage of his presidential campaign.


http://www.mlive.com/news/us-world/index.ssf/2015/09/trump_says_he_wont_appear_on_f.html
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Sep 23, 2015 - 01:36pm PT

Nice. Which ever party is out of executive power, hates the Federal Government. No wonder Trump is doing so well. The two parties, are morally, ethically, and mentally bankrupt. Too bad the Republicans made him sign the non-Indie pledge.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 23, 2015 - 09:56pm PT
Another strategy issue:

Apparently the jihadist nutcases from the west are heading over to Syria by the thousands.

Where they are getting killed by the thousands. The natives see them as expendable. Probably a greater than 75% fatality rate.


Hmmmm. And that is bad, how? Perhaps the often asked question about how they are able to get out of the various western countries so easily may be answered that we want them to.....

let them self-select themselves for death?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 24, 2015 - 07:09am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Degaine

climber
Sep 25, 2015 - 03:04am PT
WBraun,

While I agree that all of the major media outlets are doing a piss-poor job, and have been since at least the mate 1990s, they are not the same.

FOX is ideological, their mission is to push a dogma and ideology.

CNN, ABC, NBS, CBS are sensational. They're looking for ratings and will cover a story or take an angle that is the most sensational.

MSNBC, they're doing a poor job at trying to copy FOX's business model.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Sep 25, 2015 - 03:21am PT
degaine,
try npr.

great media.

they eat republicans for a light snack,
and they don't do much
other than shine a simple
torch on their horrid social, environmental
and monetary antics,
by recounting their
immature, selfish, and abominable ideals.

the right wing warrants no slander;
their sad story is written
on their collective forehead
and flings wildly off
their collective forked-tongue.

yea. npr is the only viable
mass message.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Sep 25, 2015 - 07:04am PT
Planet Weiner???
I didn't know Carlos Danger was posting.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 26, 2015 - 11:55am PT
An updated POLL tracker (with all polls thru the weekend) reveals I maintained a double digit lead at 34.8%. Not only that, my poll #'s are double that of 2nd place candidate




try npr.

great media.

they eat republicans for a light snack,
and they don't do much
other than shine a simple
torch on their horrid social, environmental
and monetary antics,
by recounting their
immature, selfish, and abominable ideals.

NorWedge it feels as though u would rather protest.. I listen to NPR also
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 26, 2015 - 05:16pm PT
Pyro...what time is the drum circle...? rj
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 28, 2015 - 11:22am PT
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 28, 2015 - 01:17pm PT
One has to be impressed with Trump's staying power! I would have thought he'd have faded a long time ago, but he has not. He is not afraid of interacting with the media, even hostile media.

He is not afraid of making a misstep, or misspeaking. He handles mistakes directly, without hiding.

I think he bears another look.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Sep 28, 2015 - 04:51pm PT
Ken,

Donald Trump doesn't quite grab how our government works.
He is not being elected as CEO of America. He thinks his foreign
policies are as simple as other countries doing whatever he says, beause he is tough and they'll want to do these things he request of them.
His new plans for the country he wants to implement are funded from monies that will just be there because everthing is working so great under him.

He does have some good ideas but most are pie in the sky. He'll find a wall of obstacles once he starts butting heads with the republicans and foreign leaders.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Sep 28, 2015 - 04:54pm PT
Jouhnboy

Elected CEO..dought it he already is CEO
I'm sure he wants the number 1 politician spot
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Sep 28, 2015 - 05:25pm PT
Pyro,

I meant he thinks being president is the same as being CEO and will approach his job and policies as such.

He doesn't seem to know how our government works.
Listen to his responses when questioned on "Meet the Press".



dirtbag

climber
Sep 28, 2015 - 08:39pm PT
His tax plan, which originally sounded encouraging, more or less mirrors Jeb's, and would add 10 trill to the debt.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 28, 2015 - 08:51pm PT
^^^^^^ :-P ^^^^^
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Sep 28, 2015 - 09:07pm PT
Grover Nordquist gave the Donald's tax plan a wink- nuff said....
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Sep 28, 2015 - 09:28pm PT
Nordquist backing Trump on tax policy...There's some big league ball-cupping....
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 30, 2015 - 06:03am PT
Stupid sells. It's that simple, Stupid. (Hey! I'm talkin' to you!)

No. Wait. Werner, your typicle politician has only been elected by stupidity.

What's in it for him to RAISE the level of intelligence, when his continued occupation of an office depends on the opposite?

YER stupid! So there, Ducky.

edit: and so is Simon, yer cat.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Sep 30, 2015 - 09:17am PT
A real POTUS first agenda would be to make Americans intelligent again.

The Smoking Duck knows...


My buddy is lamenting the 9% interest rate he's paying on his student loan. Talk about getting an education! (er, schooled, that is.)
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Oct 7, 2015 - 10:20pm PT
Donald Trump Piñatas Are a "hit" In Mexico
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3095988/images/o-TRUMP-PINATA-facebook.jpg
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 9, 2015 - 11:50am PT
Norton

Social climber
Oct 9, 2015 - 11:54am PT
^^^

Good one, pyro !!!
MisterE

Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
Oct 10, 2015 - 09:08am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 10, 2015 - 12:06pm PT
anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

Moose:
must be a weird individual to want to be at the Pinnacle of politics!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 13, 2015 - 08:35pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 15, 2015 - 03:42pm PT
SignING his tax return
Norton

Social climber
Oct 15, 2015 - 04:11pm PT
wow

thanks for posting that photo, pyro

now I have some idea how many tax pages a billionaire has to sign, pretty impressed!

always wondered about that

or was there some other reason you posted that picture?
dirtbag

climber
Oct 15, 2015 - 04:14pm PT
Some firm made a lot of money preparing his taxes.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 15, 2015 - 04:22pm PT
isn't that insane!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 15, 2015 - 04:27pm PT
Makes my hand sore just looking at that!

No, not that hand, the other one!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 15, 2015 - 04:35pm PT
Of course it's not possible that the shot is posed...

ur right locker the video might be a question..

the tax pic is for real.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 15, 2015 - 04:36pm PT
I'd lay money on it being posed, but that his returns probably do amount
to that much - that's why the IRS is such a shetshow.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 15, 2015 - 04:38pm PT
I'll find out if there is a video?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 15, 2015 - 05:08pm PT
yeah its real Don just called!!!
dirtbag

climber
Oct 15, 2015 - 05:46pm PT
Donald is unhappy with the format of the next debate:


https://www.yahoo.com/politics/donald-trump-ben-carson-threaten-to-boycott-next-212740262.html
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 19, 2015 - 11:30am PT
this actor is ready for the Trump!
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 19, 2015 - 04:18pm PT
I believe at one point a young half-jewish Austrian man was going to make Germany great again too.

The Donald however would never be a good puppet hence he is merely more colorful circus in the great show. And what a show it is.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 19, 2015 - 04:25pm PT
I've been enjoying Bush and Trump exchange volleys over whether W kept America safe from attacks.

Gotta say, Trump is right. And Jeb looks woefully unprepared for the job, despite raising enough campaign contributions to match the GDP of a small nation. It sounds like Jeb really hadn't given much thought about how to characterize his brothers legacy during the many years he has been quietly plotting to run.
John M

climber
Oct 19, 2015 - 04:30pm PT
this is pretty funny..

CNN Anchor Asks Bush To Explain His Double Standard For Benghazi And 9/11. It Doesn’t Go Well.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/10/19/3713610/jeb-bush-benghazi/
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 19, 2015 - 04:31pm PT
Jeb got asked about 911 and defended his brother. And then got asked about Benghazi and looked like a 100% hypocrite. Not that that is a surprise.

Trumps half-life in this is short. He'll be my favorite clown of all time once he loses the nomination and runs on his own.

Edit: John beat me to it.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 19, 2015 - 04:38pm PT
I mean, what's jeb been doing all these years?

Surely he had to know that he would be asked repeatedly about his brother's record, and whether he would emulate his brother's policies, especially foreign policies. Yet he can't put together a coherent answer.

And yes, his complaints about Clinton's "failures" regarding Benghazi are especially laughable in this context (although really they are laughable in any context). Everyone gaffes, but either he is stunningly unprepared, because he is a gaffe machine, or not very bright, or perhaps both, I suppose.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Oct 19, 2015 - 07:09pm PT
Not all of us Werner......:)
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 19, 2015 - 07:25pm PT
I would give the dremel shavings from my big toe nails to have Trump as the Repugnant nominee...alas, I don't see it happening.
Norton

Social climber
Oct 19, 2015 - 07:44pm PT
Trump as the Repugnant nominee...alas, I don't see it happening.

your outlook has good company - the betting markets continue to show Jeb Bush
as the ultimate nominee

their reasoning, they who bet their own money on this, is that they assume that the Republican base voters will "come to their senses" at some future point to realize that Trump has zero chance against Hillary and will switch over to a moderate - Jeb

I believe the betting markets are wrong about this and that the Republican base voters really don't care about winning the Presidency and would rather have a candidate that says what he thinks and damn the consequences, they would rather lose with
Trump being the nominee than have a candidate more likely to win

seems more and more that Repub base voters do not want to either govern or win
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 19, 2015 - 07:53pm PT
Trump is megalomaniac superegotist nutcase

Just like Barry!
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Oct 19, 2015 - 09:59pm PT
Trump is just an eccentric, like the majority of us are.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 19, 2015 - 10:36pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]


be sure to check out the video I posted on the tube.. I tried to get all the way through.. enjoy the Airforce One
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 20, 2015 - 05:46am PT
In 2000, 19 months before Sept. 11, 2001, Donald Trump wrote extensively of the terrorism threat the United States was facing.
Trump, who at the time was considering a presidential bid on the Reform Party ticket, went so far as to say that an attack on a major U.S. city was not just a probability, but an inevitability.
I really am convinced we’re in danger of the sort of terrorist attacks that will make the bombing of the Trade Center look like kids playing with firecrackers,” wrote Trump in his 2000 book, The America We Deserve. “No sensible analyst rejects this possibility, and plenty of them, like me, are not wondering if but when it will happen.”
Trump even mentions Osama bin Laden by name, in a criticism of an American foreign policy that too quickly jumps from one crisis to the next.
“One day we’re told that a shadowy figure with no fixed address named Osama bin-Laden is public enemy number one, and U.S. jetfighters lay waste to his camp in Afghanistan,” The Donald wrote. “He escapes back under some rock, and a few news cycles later it’s on to a new enemy and new crisis.”

Maybe he's not as dumb as he seems.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 20, 2015 - 06:02am PT

The Republican's are just dumb enough to nominate this fool. The establishment candidates are polling in single digits. The 2nd place guy is a doctor who speaks in tongues. Where's the polling in a firewall state showing Bush or Rubio winning?

There's little use discussing Trump " policies". His knowledge of the issues is microscopically thin. You can't possible interpret his bluster into a cogent political philosophy. It's just braggadocio. He makes it up over morning coffee. For some, obviously, that's enough. He'll "make American great again"' by force of personality. Are there enough angry, white voters nationally to elect this guy? I don't think so. Not enough reality TV fans.



EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Oct 20, 2015 - 06:22am PT
We've been hearing those same criticisms for the last four months. Yet, he's still leading the pack.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Oct 20, 2015 - 06:24am PT

You ain't got any candidates who can really lead.

You just have puppets.

If the puppet so decides to cut the strings that puppet will quickly see how short it's lifespan can become.

Obama saw it when that guy got all the way to front door before being stopped.

There's a lot of sh!t going on behind the scenes you'll never see nor hear about in the garbage can US media ......

I personally think Obama got the "special screening" of the Zapruder video. He folded with that 700 billion dollar theft within the first what... 3 weeks?

Trump is a whole lot brighter and isn't as idealistic as Obama might have been. He has to know he'd have to tow whatever line he's handed. I just can't see a malignant narcissist like Trump towing anyone's line.

Now Hitlery is a proven puppet.

What a pile of human garbage to "choose" from.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 20, 2015 - 08:02am PT
I still think Rubio will be the last man standing.

But as Edward and Crankster point out, Trump's candidacy doesn't seem close to meeting its demise yet. Then again, we'll see how things start to shake out when they are down to 3 or 4 candidates in 6 months, and you'll have 2 or 3 establishment candidates to focus attention on, Trump (in all likelihood), and a hanger-on like Huckabee or Cruz.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 20, 2015 - 09:32am PT
fear, just write in Frank Zappa.

Dirt, Agree that Rubio could challenge Trump as the field narrows.
And the tea leaves are lining up for a Biden run. Whatever, Joe, just know that all the good vibes you're getting end when you announce.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 20, 2015 - 10:31am PT
I think a lot of people forget that in 2008, Biden wasn't seen as a particularly strong candidate. His stature might be enhanced a bit by being VP, but the media (unfairly
or not) has treated him as amusing character, prone to gaffes, but not very serious.

In any event, I think his ship has sailed. Hillary is a formidable candidate and Sanders occupies a spot on the left that I'm not sure Biden could fill even if Sanders wasn't present.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 20, 2015 - 10:35am PT
Hillary is riding out repub. efforts to discredit her and she clearly won the first debate. With the changing demographics in America and the disarray in the repugnant party get ready for the first female President
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 20, 2015 - 10:44am PT
We'll see about that, Jim. Yogi Berra may have the last word, yet...


Benghazi, Sid-ghazi and Huma-ghazi: Can Clinton weather the storm?

Doyle McManus•Contact Reporter
October 18, 2015, 5:00 AM

One of the biggest events in the 2016 presidential campaign will unroll in a quiet hearing room in Washington this week: Hillary Rodham Clinton's long-awaited interrogation by the House of Representatives' Select Committee on Benghazi.

Only it should probably be renamed the Select Committee on Clinton's emails. The Republican-led investigation started by looking at the 2012 terrorist attack that killed four Americans in Libya's second-largest city, but when that well began to run dry, it switched to a more promising target: Clinton's decision to keep her official emails on a private computer system.

The result has been a competition among some of our finest politicians to see which side can make itself look worse.

Let's start with Clinton.



When the emails came to light in March, she resisted her own advisors' counsel to come clean. "We need to throw the facts to the dogs and let 'em chew on it," her campaign chairman, John Podesta, argued, according to Politico. But Clinton went into a defensive crouch instead.

She initially claimed that no classified material ever passed through her home-brew system; she had to amend that after the government found that several of the emails should have been marked "secret" but weren't. She also claimed that she gave her emails to the State Department quickly, in response to a routine inquiry; that turned out to be untrue. In fact, she directed her lawyers to erase more than half the messages in her archive, without giving the government a chance to review them. (The FBI is trying to recover the 30,000 erased messages.)

Making matters worse, when she finally acknowledged that mistakes were made, her initial confession was grudging. "I am sorry that this has been confusing to people," she said.

She succeeded mostly in making herself look evasive. No wonder her poll numbers plummeted, especially on whether voters considered her trustworthy.

So now the FBI is investigating whether a presidential candidate or her aides mishandled classified information, and whether any of Clinton's messages were intercepted by foreign intelligence agencies.

Only one thing can save a politician from such serially poor judgment: enemies who are even clumsier.

Even as Clinton has managed to hobble her own campaign, her Republican opponents have made themselves look ridiculous.

The House committee's chairman is a smart and witty former prosecutor from South Carolina named Trey Gowdy. He has tried to make the investigation look as if it's focused solely on finding the causes of the Benghazi tragedy, even though it's the eighth congressional committee to pursue that question.

But in its search for new revelations, the committee has focused on a series of increasingly small targets.

Did Clinton political advisor Sidney Blumenthal feed the secretary bum advice to help his own business interests (Sid-ghazi)? Did Clinton lawyer Cheryl Mills err by keeping her day job at New York University while working without pay to help Clinton organize her office at the State Department (Cheryl-ghazi)? Did Clinton aide-de-camp Huma Abedin sin by working simultaneously for the State Department and the private Clinton Foundation (Huma-ghazi)?

This doesn't sound much like Watergate yet. It's more like the justly forgotten Whitewater.

And Gowdy has been incapable of preventing some of his Republican colleagues from blurting out the truth.

"Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right?" House GOP Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Bakersfield) said last month. "But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping."

"I think that there was a big part of this investigation that was designed to go after people, and an individual: Hillary Clinton," Rep. Richard Hanna (R-N.Y.) said last week.

You can expect Clinton to quote both of those overly candid Republicans on Thursday — early and often.

A sensible Congress would step aside at this point and let the FBI probe Clinton's emails, which would still give Republicans plenty of opportunities to tut-tut. Besides, the FBI has no reason to stop investigating until it's satisfied that nobody mishandled classified material. Thanks to a court order, the State Department will continue releasing the candidate's old emails in monthly batches well into election year.

As if that weren't enough, action film director Michael Bay is finishing work on a movie about Benghazi, scheduled for release about two weeks before the Iowa caucuses in February. The trailer includes a clip of a distress call from the U.S. diplomatic compound — "We need immediate assistance!" — followed by a bureaucrat ordering American commandos to do nothing.

"It is like a drip, drip, drip," Clinton sighed in a television interview last month. (In that case, her statement was dead-on accurate.)

In Gowdy, as Republicans like to point out, she faces a professional prosecutor. But by now, Clinton qualifies as a professional defendant. This won't be her first time under hostile interrogation. The House GOP is pursuing a quarry with decades of experience in eluding — or merely waiting out — her opponents.

She won't be out of the woods after this week's hearing; the FBI, in particular, could still give her headaches. But in this week's showdown, my money will be on Clinton.

doyle.mcmanus@latimes.com


John M

climber
Oct 20, 2015 - 10:54am PT
your report is from Oct 18, but on Oct 19 the CIA says nothing in Clintons emails was classified..

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/cia-shrugs-off-clinton-s-1281399243022390.html
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 20, 2015 - 11:04am PT
Doesn't the Justice Dept/FBI have the last word on that?
The FBI is looking at the erased emails. I doubt the CIA has access to them.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Oct 21, 2015 - 09:36am PT
And the tea leaves are lining up for a Biden run.
-Crankster

In typical Crankaloon fashion, Joe Biden just announced he isn't running.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 21, 2015 - 09:42am PT
The hearing with Clinton is a dangerous enterprise for the Repugs, and they don't seem to realize it.

If they are seen to be beating up a dedicated public servant, and a woman, they will be vilified.

And I think the temptation to do so will be overwhelming.....look what they did to the Planned Parenthood President: basically treating her in a phenomenally insulting manner.

If they do that to Clinton, they will be cheered by their base, and vilified by the rest of the electorate....and who do they think they answer to?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 21, 2015 - 09:43am PT
The good news, HermitCrab, is that now Hillary Clinton will be the 1st woman presidential candidate from a major party. Before she's actually president.

Just think of all the moronic cartoons you can post!
dirtbag

climber
Oct 21, 2015 - 09:49am PT
And don't forget the "bitch" comments, too!
dirtbag

climber
Oct 21, 2015 - 09:50am PT
Good points, Ken. They have already greatly overplayed their hand.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 21, 2015 - 10:08am PT
"Control the narrative"?? Are you kidding? Nobody controls the narrative. 24/7 cable shouts anything and everything nonstop. Benghazi was a hoax. The media bought it. Of course, Hillary had no control over it.
Norton

Social climber
Oct 21, 2015 - 10:22am PT
And don't forget the "bitch" comments, too!

and lots of really cool pictures too!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Oct 21, 2015 - 10:38am PT
Take it to the Hillary thread, this one is about The Donald.

I heard last night that the GOP conservatives (is that even a possible phrase?) are planning a stiff ad campaign against Trump. Ha! It will hang them even more.

After watching the Trump segment on Hannity last night, I honestly think that he's going to grab the GOP nomination, and he'll be tough to beat come election time.

Link: Trump on Hannity, Oct 20

Ho man, what a circus this is going to be!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Oct 21, 2015 - 11:18am PT
Trump has many past transgressions. The Dems are going to save their best salvos against him for the very end, if they need them at all.

One example:

On CNN in 2011, he boasted of defrauding a foreign head of state in a real estate swindle. Mummar Ghadafi had come to New York to address the United Nations, and Trump overcharged for a piece of rental land, and then refused to let him use it. Trump then claimed, in the same interview, that this was exactly what the United States needed to be doing, right now, all around the world.


The general public is not going to want an admitted real estate fraudster in office. Yes, the president has to be a filthy, dirty little scoundrel. But, Trump has defrauded many people, including Americans who have lost their life savings in failed condo projects he has put his name to, or paid tens of thousand of dollars for his worthless "Trump University" DIY real estate school video tapes and seminars.


Trump's idea of "getting tough" with the Chinese sounds great to the naive Midwesterners who don't realize that their corn and wheat exports to China can "get tough", too. And the Chinese can get tough when it comes to being the only buyer of the Treasury bonds that the U.S. needs to sell to stay afloat.


His comments about plundering the conquered ring true

Yes, that concept has rung true for over 10,000 years. But, do we really want to embrace a Roman Empire model, of plundering other nations to finance our domestic standard of living? Sooner or later, the barbarians are going to fight back, and with the state of modern weaponry and its ready availability, I would guess it would be sooner, and not later. The U.S. doesn't have the omnipotent military strength the propaganda media would like you to believe. The U.S. itself could easily suffer tremendous damage in a serious conflict - nukes are a definite option for an embattled nation backed into the proverbial corner. Overseas travel for Americans could become so dangerous, we'd all be trapped here, at home, permanently.

Nobody ever wins a fight
- Dalton, in Roadhouse




Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Oct 21, 2015 - 11:39am PT
The right thing for her to do is to take the lead from leaders before her who have faced the same obstacles

[Click to View YouTube Video]
BillO

Trad climber
Yachats, OR
Oct 21, 2015 - 02:16pm PT
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Oct 21, 2015 - 03:02pm PT
Many would argue that we already have.

Absolutely. The CIA's prime directive is to protect American business interests overseas. The U.S. has established a de facto empire, particularly by way of impressing our currency on other nations. Oil is still sold by the dollar, and not by the Euro, Riyal. Ruble, or Bolivar. The World Bank is really the American Bank.


Right now, a false smile of diplomacy is used to lull the plundered into a state of non-awareness, or at least a state of non-aggression. This strategy doesn't always work, and many people around the world hate America, because of its imperialistic ambitions.


Trump makes it sound like he'd march his legions on Tehran, and loot the banks and museums of anything made of gold. Like a bizarre counterpart to the atavistic Muslims who want to reinstate a 7th century Caliphate in the Levant, Trump apparently wants to reinstate a 3rd century Roman Dominate in America. His schoolyard bully act wouldn't exactly endear America to the rest of the world. It might be effective at shifting more wealth away from the people, and into the hands of the very wealthiest few. But, as a foreign policy, it would probably make the Cheney+Bush debacle seem like the Best of Times.


Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Oct 21, 2015 - 03:42pm PT
Yeah, Obama's foreign policy and homeland security policy looks a lot like this:

CHENEY, WITH A TAN

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 21, 2015 - 08:28pm PT
This is why Trump will not get the nomination.

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politics/rofl-heres-a-professional-analysis-of-the-grade-level-of-a-donald-trump-speech/

His half-life is directly related to the number of candidates in the mix. As the number dwindles those that are not as dumb as the ones supporting the clownstick will be voting for anyone but Trump until there is only one left standing.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 21, 2015 - 08:40pm PT
Ah who can say what is bluster and what isn't. Neither you nor me, that's for sure.

Waterboard the f*#ker and then you'll know.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 25, 2015 - 11:14am PT
Poll - WOW! New Hampshire TRUMP 38% CARSON 12% BUSH 8% South Carolina TRUMP 40% CARSON 23% CRUZ 8% Iowa TRUMP 27% CARSON 27%

Donald
Norton

Social climber
Oct 25, 2015 - 11:19am PT
^^

wow is right, Pyro!

that is terrific news for the Democrats, who want Trump as the Repub nominee

Go Donald!
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 25, 2015 - 11:43am PT
Proceeds of the invasion? So its coo, if the plunderage pays eh?

Ouch.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Oct 25, 2015 - 12:05pm PT
Donald, Donald he's my man - if he can't do it nobody can!


;>)
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 26, 2015 - 05:12am PT

Trumps half life is getting dimmer and dimmer!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 26, 2015 - 06:30am PT
Pyromaniac makes a good point. Trump is still playing to large crowds of angry, white folks shouting "Build the wall!" Might be enough to win the nomination, maybe, but I sense he's on the verge of the big fade out. He's not going to stain his "brand" by being just another loser, so one or two losses and he'll drop out claiming victory. Never underestimate the ignorance of Republican primary voters, however.

The general election? Not a chance.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 26, 2015 - 07:44am PT
Trump basically says that he can make America great again because he has the biggest dick.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 26, 2015 - 07:52am PT
Both? But then again, he hasn't shown us his Dahnold so who knows?
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 26, 2015 - 07:54am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

can you guess where this is going ?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 26, 2015 - 08:08am PT
"The character of our country is only as strong as our leaders---the only special interest I am beholden to is the American people and together we will Make America Great Again!" Trump declared


for you Crankloon
careful, there are high school age kids posting on this forum
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 26, 2015 - 09:01am PT
How will those that are invaded recover?

I hear you on the invade crap to begin with. It sickens the mind for sure and how can a country that literally has the world covered with military bases, can nuke anyone at a moments notice justify an invasion? Got me? Anyway, to me the plunderage doesn't add up...it adds heinousness to an already heinous sitch. Halliburton and the military corps should be footing the bill, not the American taxpayer(unless you were for invading Iraq, then you are responsible for the cost. But I know it doesn't work this way and I can understand your POV, I just don't share it.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 26, 2015 - 09:18am PT
**When they do recover they'll be coming for the conquerers with all they've got.

I mean, wouldn't you?

The Smart Invader never takes the boot off the neck.

DMT
**
US = SmartInvader which = a holes of the planet.

Accepted by the citizens so they/we can have all the freedom we want. It is our soil/born given right after all eh?! I prefer the freedom to F stuff up instead of a humble approach that attempts to provide for most. Empathy/Humility are NOT a common traits of the American people.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 26, 2015 - 09:23am PT
How will those that are invaded recover?

Uh, that's not why you invade. Think Ghengis Khan worried about that?

Pity is for the weak-minded.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 26, 2015 - 09:28am PT
Ha!! Yeah, plus it doesn't do anything...

Shoot, now I got nuthin' that hasn't already been said.

favor:
Take a lap on Rawhide for me!!

Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 26, 2015 - 09:30am PT
Reilly, you are in the wrong century, nawmean? Or, maybe you are just really tough?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 26, 2015 - 12:15pm PT
A new Post/ABC News poll asked GOP-leaning voters which candidate “has the best chance of getting elected president in November 2016?” The winner was Trump by a landslide. An incredible 43 percent of GOP voters say that Trump is the most electable GOP candidate. In a distant second place, Ben Carson trails Trump on electability by 27 points, while Jeb Bush — whose entire rationale for his campaign is electability — trails Trump on electability by 30 points. Since the same poll found Trump with 32 percent support, that means even GOP voters who do not support Trump still believe he is most likely to beat the Democrats in 2016. A new Associated Press-GfK poll confirms this, finding that “Seven in 10 Republicans and Republican-leaning registered voters say they think Trump could win in November 2016 if he were nominated; that’s the most of any Republican candidate.”

This perception of Trump’s electability perplexes the GOP establishment, which is certain he would lose to Hillary Clinton.

Republicans also see Trump as the only candidate who can truly shake up Washington. In a CNN/ORC swing-state poll, 60 percent of Republican primary voters in Nevada say that Trump is “most likely to change the way things work in Washington” while in South Carolina he is seen as the best agent of change by 58 percent. No one else in the GOP field even approaches those numbers — except for Carson, the rest are in single digits.

So right now Republican voters believe that Trump is (a) the most likely to shake up our nation’s capital and (b) has the best shot of winning in November.

What could cause that perception of Trump’s electability to change? The most likely way would be for him to have a really bad debate performance.

But Trump has an unlikely protector: the GOP establishment. After Mitt Romney’s 2012 battering, Republican leaders decided to limit the number of debates in order to protect the next front-runner from excessive debate scrutiny. Their plan is working perfectly — except the beneficiary is Trump.

Moreover, Trump succeeded in forcing CNBC to cut the length of its upcoming debate from three hours to two and to allow candidates to burn some of that limited time with opening and closing statements. That will reduce the danger that Trump will have to engage other candidates in substantive discussions, or suffer a moment where he looks out of his depth that could undermine GOP voters’ confidence in his electability. In the Fox News debate, with similar rules, Trump spoke for a total of 11 minutes and 14 seconds. At that pace, he will have just 45 minutes of speaking time on the debate stage between now and the time the first votes are cast.

So Trump — master of the “art of the deal” — has not closed the deal just yet. To stop him, the GOP field will have to winnow considerably. And for one of the remaining Republicans to win, he or she has to convince GOP voters first that Trump can’t win, and second, that he or she is a credible alternative to shake up Washington.

That’s a lot to accomplish in 45 minutes.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Oct 26, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
I read the poll results too, Ken. I'll repeat: it's still a long way to the election.

I would add that this election, more than any previous one I remember, seems to have an electorate that selectively filters its facts. The examination of Hillary Clinton last week is a classic example. The Democrats have all concluded that the examination helped Hillary because she seemed unruffled and "presidential," and, they believe, disclosed nothing new.

The Hillary opponents, in contrast, think it helped them because it disclosed emails that Hillary tried to withhold showing that she knew form the beginning that the attack was a pre-planned terrorist attack from an Al Qaeda affiliate, and that they were searching You Tube to find a scapegoat.

The respective news sources of the two groups only reported one side of the story. Perhaps the poll respondents reflect the same ignorance as any other voter getting only one-sided information. All I can say is that H. L. Mencken and P. T. Barnum both got it right.

John
Norton

Social climber
Oct 26, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
JohnE,

Which of the Repub candidates do you hope will be the nominee?

Looks like Donald, if so will you support him with your vote?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 26, 2015 - 01:37pm PT
C'mon, Trump!

A vote for The Donald is a vote for Hillary!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 26, 2015 - 01:47pm PT
The Democrats have all concluded that the examination helped Hillary
The Hillary opponents, in contrast, think it helped them

This is not correct. Yes, maybe the strident, diehard Hannity-types are spinning that the hearing was a success for Republicans, but few others are on either side of the aisle.

Byron York is hardly a liberal. Read "Benghazi Bust":
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/article/2574747

Or: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-10-23/conservative-reviews-are-in-benghazi-hearing-a-bust

The respective news sources of the two groups only reported one side of the story.
Another false statement. Well, yes, Fox is still spinning, but there's not a serious conservative analyst who thinks the Benghazi hearings are a political win for their side. Quite the reverse happened.

The reality is the right built up the hearing so much people expected a "bombshell" smoking gun. They got neither.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 26, 2015 - 01:55pm PT
York's closing comments in the above piece:

"So a hearing billed as an epic, High Noon-style confrontation — granted, the hype came from the media, not Republican committee members themselves — instead turned out to be a somewhat interesting look at a few limited aspects of the Benghazi affair. In other words, no big deal. And that is very, very good news for Hillary Clinton."
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Oct 26, 2015 - 05:15pm PT
Norton, as you can probably guess, in a race between Hillary and Trump, I would vote for Hillary. Trump continues to demonstrate his disqualifications. For all her flaws, Hillary would be, by far, a better President. If Cruz were the Republican nominee, I would probably vote for Clinton, because she has demonstrated an ability to compromise and govern. Cruz has merely demonstrated an ability to be so doctrinaire as to be unable to compromise. I still find wise compromise essential to good governance.

Crankster, I said "Hillary haters" rather than "conservatives" precisely because I've read the articles you cited. I've also read the comments of those who were pro-Hillary prior to the hearings. I haven't listened to Fox News, so I have no opinion on what someone like Hannity said. He is not, nor does he purport to be, an objective reporter of facts. I rather suspect, though, that I know more about the opposition's viewpoints - because I read them - than most on the left know about those of conservatives.

John

Edit: Norton, I forgot about your first question. Kasich and Rubio are my first two choices. I like Carson, but question his lack of government service. I also like J. Bush's record, but I think his last name alone would prevent his election. Christie has a good governing record, but his personality is a definite liability. Fiorina talks a good talk, but lacks a record of good governance. Cruz strikes me as athe Republican Obama - barely able to work with other Repbulicans, and utterly unable to reach across the aisle.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Oct 26, 2015 - 06:40pm PT
POTUS is largely irrelevant. Real action is in Congress.

Put another way, folks get agitated -- will it be it Clinton (probably), will it be Trump (improbably) -- but it doesn't really matter.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Oct 28, 2015 - 09:03am PT
I'm definitely voting for this guy because he gets sh#t done!!!

http://realnewsrightnow.com/2015/10/trump-i-would-have-prevented-the-asteroid-from-killing-the-dinosaurs/
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Oct 28, 2015 - 09:38am PT
Increasingly, DC does less and less, while taking more and more. It's a problem Hillary needs to address. Sad that our President confines himself to shooting the messengers without addressing the problem. The Trump percentages, should galvanize anyone that cares about our Government. He's like chemotherapy.

But other countries have it worse. Much worse. The nyc real estate market, is through the roof as the smart money from Europe and the ME, floods out.

The August snapshot....

Continuing record prices. With new development sales robust, the median price for an apartment in Manhattan reached $999,000, a ten-year high. The median price per square foot is now $1,284, up 11% from a year ago.

· More sales. The pace of closed sales was up 3% over the same quarter one year prior, and there were 11% more signed contracts.

· Another inventory contraction. For just the fourth time in the last ten years, the number of properties available for sale in Manhattan fell below 5,000 – a dramatic shortage that is helping to maintain the rise of sale prices.



crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 28, 2015 - 10:10am PT
Wrong on all counts. The president is not bound by campaign donors in a practical sense and neither will Hillary. She is running to expand on Obama's accomplishments, not be his 3rd term. Taking on the gun lobby - what donor block does that represent?

Alas, this is a Trump thread. Tonight, hopefully, we see the 2 biggest clowns in the race, Trump & Carson, taken down a notch and a somewhat-sane candidate start to emerge. Forget Iowa, they're nuts. The real race is happening in larger states that actually decide the nomination.
Norton

Social climber
Oct 28, 2015 - 10:11am PT
Obama is relegated in what he can do based on the campaign contributions he accepted from the big banks

jammer, I personally believe you are full of sh!t

and that you simply blather on in a know it all manner that is sufficiently vague and
vacant of substantiation

take for example your above quote, make your case with facts, which you cannot

in 08 when President Obama was campaigning by far the bulk of the "wall street" money went to the Republican John McCain and Obama's funding set a record with the vast majority coming from small dollar donations from many millions of people

you need to understand that "big banks" are always so flush with cash that they cover all bases by contributing both political parties, and much more so to Republicans
who openly support "deregulation", which obviously favors big banks and wall street

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 28, 2015 - 10:14am PT
Obama's Sec Def yesterday reinforced the obvious that the Demos intend to stay the course
on hypocrisy by announcing the contract for the next stealth bomber. Col John Boyd just
rolled over in his grave. The announced contract of $80 BILLION is sure to at least double.
Why do we need a new long-range nuclear bomber Mr President? What happened to

Hope and CHANGE?
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 28, 2015 - 10:26am PT
Those stealth things are Nobel approved, just like the drone program!

Out of sight, out of mind!
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Oct 28, 2015 - 01:35pm PT
The problem with Bernie, is his agenda, seems unrealistic at present. Not that the problem of wealth disparity isn't real, but that DC, is incapable of doing anything about it.

Think of the US economy/wealth distribution network, as an expensive classic car. There's only one repair station, the owners are constantly at war with each other and threatening to burn it down. You have to straighten out the repair shop, before it can fix your car.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Oct 28, 2015 - 03:05pm PT
Well tonight’s the night [debate] for Donald. Either this will make the public that have supported him recently look foolish if he loses, if he wins it will make them look even more foolish.

Still have a way’s to go before one will needs to “vote with your eyes”.

That’s going to be when the real fun starts. Taking a guess when all this settles down when the two that has plans [Intelligence as in thinking] to running our country correctly and my thinking maybe by the end of Aug/Sept. you will see violence abroad as well here intensify 100 fold.

If anyone saw the first two debates with the Republicans act like children or High School retards as well as our weakness in foreign policy and mistakes starting with President Cheney those first couple of years when he ran our government till Bush said enough is enough “I am the President”. The unfortunate mishaps with Obama when he could have or not have done is in the past.

Isil or Isis depending on which one you want to name will step up their attacks the most. Al-Qaeda will do the same. It’s about terrorism spelled with a big “T’ and that is what they want: scare us into submission as “Who are you going to vote for”. The weaker candidate or the strongest. The smartest or the dumbest.

Donald baby will be gone hopefully by tonight. It’s the following Republican field that is even scarier. As for Hillary the only thing I am against is their foundation. One being close with the Saudis’. We in our current administration are helping them with their proxy war. Problem women and children are being killed and we let them do it by looking the other way, which is nothing new it’s about when can it stop.

You criticize Werner for not knowing, he knows. All one needs to do is look at the people who are behind the scenes lurking in the dark or shadows. They are the ones that are running our country.

Start off with SAIC. The deeper you look the more informed you get. This will be the time when you will be wanting to or thinking about “voting with your eyes”. And that is just one contractor the US used and still uses today and will tomorrow as well as few others that want control.

When you get to the part where 9 journalists were murdered in country [Iraq] the first couple of weeks of the invasion and why then I will take a guess you will see where the mistakes were made for not only for going to war but the start of the instability we created and have no clue how to stop it.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Oct 28, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
Obama is relegated in what he can do based on the campaign contributions he accepted from the big banks

jammer, I personally believe you are full of sh!t

and that you simply blather on in a know it all manner that is sufficiently vague and
vacant of substantiation

take for example your above quote, make your case with facts, which you cannot

So Norton. Did Jammer convince you yet? Probably not, but the evidence is there. Many others see it too. Why do you think the current republican leaders, Trump and Carson, are completely outside of the government experience. And then there is Bernie, who is not really that far left and stands apart from the corporations (as far as I can tell).
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 28, 2015 - 04:18pm PT
Your theories all disappear when the outsider candidates drop out, right?

Hillary v Rubio or Bush is where we're headed, imo. The Trump/Carson flirtation won't last long after Iowa. History has a way of repeating itself. Think Cain, Perry, Bachman, Gingrich, Buchanan....
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 28, 2015 - 04:46pm PT
Crankster.....quit using inttelligence and spouting off reasonable scenarios. This is a political thread bro, you don't see the boys on the eastside doing that!
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 28, 2015 - 05:00pm PT
I'm not sure how to explain Carson at the moment. I've not really thought about it.

Trump is easy. The dumbest of the dumb are supporting him and those that are are also 100% on board. He'll gain no more votes. As the others drop out the more intelligent voters will pick a candidate other than him. He might even be done tonight.

crankster I just don't see Jeb. He's just saying too much stupid sh#t. I think you nail it with Rubio. The guy is smart and calculating. He's sitting back not staying too much stupid sh#t and letting the others take each other out. And at some point when they discuss policy he will get his chance. And clownstick and the psychopath will be done since they have nothing on that front.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 28, 2015 - 05:06pm PT
Can't disagree much regarding Jeb. Just figuring in his $$ and name, but both might not add up to much, to be sure. I'm no fan.

Carson appeals to the religious right, which explains Iowa. I think he fades fast when the number of candidates drops.

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 28, 2015 - 05:10pm PT
The reason Carson doesn't stand a chance is because he's black and the hard core right, teabaggers, etc., are made up of ignorant racist white people. In fact the teabaggers are a direct result of the first black president being elected. No way a black man gets that vote.


and yeah i know you are no fan. Certainly his money and his ties are what gives him some sort of chance (or at least lets him on the stage tonight). It's just really odd thinking that GW is the smarter brother.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Oct 28, 2015 - 05:28pm PT
I still think it will be a deadlocked convention with Romney as the go to guy............

Carson is nuts.
Trump is only playing a game.
Bush is an idiot (and a Bush).
Cruz is f*#king nuts and scary.
Rubio is playing it smart, but his recent comments about not liking to 'work' as a senator and missing LOTS of votes may come back to bite him.
The others are just passengers on the clown bus.
Norton

Social climber
Oct 28, 2015 - 05:38pm PT
The reason Carson doesn't stand a chance is because he's black and the hard core right, teabaggers, etc., are made up of ignorant racist white people. In fact the teabaggers are a direct result of the first black president being elected. No way a black man gets that vote.

nature nails it
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 28, 2015 - 05:50pm PT
So, as usual, nobody is going to rebut my post? Oh, I know, just like all
the Demos in SoCal you're gonna say it will provide good jobs.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Oct 28, 2015 - 05:59pm PT
Okay.

Obama's not running.
Norton

Social climber
Oct 28, 2015 - 06:09pm PT
I get what Reilly is saying, he feels he has enough personal information from his background to believe that the new bomber's 80 billion dollar cost is a waste of money by the depart of defense.

Mr. Reilly is entitled ot his opinion, obviously the Pentagon disagrees with Reilly
and very probably also does not give a damn what he thinks.

Likely, extremely few people in high ranking government read Supertopo either.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 28, 2015 - 06:11pm PT
HaHa, Jim, nice try, but I can see yer heart wasn't in it. ;-)

Norton, I don't care what the Pentagon thinks either as I know why the
Pentagon exists: to provide nice cushy retirement positions for the colonels
and generals who ramrod these bullsh!t programs through for their homies at
Northrop, et al. Why don't you address my real point concerning the Demos'
hypocrisy at furthering this travesty all the while moaning about the widening
income gap and deepening poverty? You can't rationalize it because it stinks
beyond belief. Obama is no better than Bush in kowtowing to the military
and Hillary will be no different as long as there are the hallowed jobs for
the hallowed unionists. Mark my words, this program will climb WAAY north
of $200 Billion.

And if you want to get into a discussion of the long and sordid history of
stoopid Air Force planes like the F-111, the B-1, and the new tits-on-a-boar
F-35 I relish the thought. BTW, that's the short list.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 28, 2015 - 06:24pm PT
It ain't a debate and it ain't presidential, it's entertainment.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Oct 28, 2015 - 06:27pm PT
Well, it is a waste of money. Do we really need a new bomber? BITD I was a contract composite tool designer. I worked on the C-17 wing to body fairing at Heath-Techna in Seattle then moved to Compositec in Brea, CA and worked on ducting for the C-17 and the refueling receptacle for the B-2. The ducting was okay, but the refueling receptacle? Pure bullshit and wasted taxpayer money.

The Boeing guys were down to look at progress and I asked them why we were building this expensive and heavy rotating refueling thingy. The answer I got was because of aerodynamics; a good answer, but the fact is that when refueling the bomber is flying behind a tanker with a f*#king big hose trailing down to the bomber. Aero has nothing to do with what is going on. Turns out that the idea for the rotating mechanism was conceived one day in the garage of a Parker-Hannifin employee while a bunch of guys were drinking beer. They made a styrofoam mock-up and sold the idea to Boeing. Yep, lots of contract work there......

I knew several engineers who were picked up for the B-2 program; they sat out at Andrews Air Force Base in isolation waiting for security clearances for six months, doing the crossword and reading books while collecting the contract rate. Turns out McDonnell-Douglas (if memory serves) got to charge the government cost plus 10% on their rate. What a load of BS.

But, the point is that maybe the money needs to be spent, but on things that improve the country, such as infrastructure and parks and sh#t. We don't need another bomber.
Norton

Social climber
Oct 28, 2015 - 06:27pm PT
Why don't you address my real point concerning the Demos'
hypocrisy at furthering this travesty all the while moaning about the widening
income gap and deepening poverty?

why?

because I have no interest at all in doing so

in addition I know nothing of the kinds of aircraft you speak of, Reilly

my time serving America was not in the Air Force as I came back half dead from Malaria while serving in a fuking jungle, sorry I know little about air planes
Norton

Social climber
Oct 28, 2015 - 06:29pm PT
You can tell every one of them are DEMS

um Cosmic?

the people asking the questions are all self admitted Republicans and not "dems"
they are all the morning stock market reporting crew
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Oct 28, 2015 - 06:34pm PT
$80 billion? That thing will cost $400 billion before it's all over. And like the F-35 it won't be allowed to fly in the dark, or in rain, or...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 28, 2015 - 06:35pm PT
Norton, the point is any glue-huffer knows that strategic bombers are the
Edsels of warfare. Yeah, they work against the likes of Serbia* but against
anybody else they're phukking useless. So man up and admit that Obama is a
disgrace to his whole 'Hope and Change' BS. Look, I voted for him twice and I
support him on many things but kissing those phukking generals' asses
aint't in it.

*although do recall that an F-117 was shot down there by ground fire IIRC.



Gary, I didn't want to give in to hyperbole, although you are probably right.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 28, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
Cosmic - the questions were no different than when this was on Faux. They have no ability to discuss policy. Keep the circus a circus.


Reilly - I pondered and have no answer. Backroom dealing? No, a $600B Bomber isn't needed.
John M

climber
Oct 28, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
John Harwood is bizarre. He sounds like a Fox news reporter. why would the GOP agree to these moderators? why blame dems?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 28, 2015 - 06:41pm PT
It's all a weird sh*tshow to me, honestly.

Agree, winemaker.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 28, 2015 - 06:43pm PT
Crankster, forget that, read Boyd: The Fighter Pilot That Changed The Art of War.
I dare you. He challenged the AF brass on so many of their bullsh!t programs
they finally ran him out of Dodge even though he was the greatest military
mind of the last century.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 28, 2015 - 07:46pm PT
I didn't watch the debate. Who stood out?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 28, 2015 - 07:46pm PT
Yeah, that "attack the media" nonsense works every time with the talk radio crowd.
Easiest play in the book when you're appealing the the far-right base. And you're losing in the polls.

Dirt, it was a total circus. Moderators lost control, the candidates attacked the moderators instead of answering the question....a spectacle. CNBC did not win. All in all, bad reality TV.

Who won? Dunno. Carson was his usual unintelligible mess, as the frontrunner he didn't help himself. Trump was Trump, maybe less so. Not a factor. Kasich made some sense but nobody's listening. Cruz was scary. Scary. Bush was not a standout.
Maybe Rubio will get a bounce, perhaps Christie a little bit (not enough). Fiorina, Huckabee, Paul...see ya.

The good news it was only 2 hours.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 28, 2015 - 07:56pm PT
it was obvious that Christie is CNBC's choice.

The moderators asked for the most part unsubstantial idiotic questions and got called out on it.
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:00pm PT
The moderators asked for the most part unsubstantial idiotic questions

What other kinds of questions would you ask a bunch of unsubstantial idiots?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:01pm PT
Brennan, you Luddite, the B-52 never left the game! It packs what, 16 cruise
missiles? How much efficiency do you need?

Wait, Christie's still in the game? Why, they givin' away fried chicken?
BwaHaHaHaHa! Dood's only gud for gaming traffic jams.
Norton

Social climber
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:06pm PT
Norton, the point is any glue-huffer knows that strategic bombers are the
Edsels of warfare. Yeah, they work against the likes of Serbia* but against
anybody else they're phukking useless. So man up and admit that Obama is a
disgrace to his whole 'Hope and Change'


Reilly, knock it off, don't command ME to "man up" just because I don't have the knowledge that you do about military aircraft to tell the Pentagon, or the President that they are wrong about this bomber you keep going on and on about.

I don't give a damn about the bomber, Reilly, stop telling me what to do, ok?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:07pm PT
I thought they were all well mannered!
still thinking about it..


yes we do need the Bombers
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:15pm PT
Sure seems that bombers are increasingly obsolete. Particularly in the era of armed drones.

I suppose one could make the case for armed drone bombers. So much of the sophistication of military planes is survival of the crew, eliminating that would seem to allow great reductions in weight, etc. the F-35 helmet costs $400,000)

It is hard to believe that a bomber developed NOW, which will not be deployed for 15 or so years, will be relevant at that time.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:16pm PT
Who won?

Same answer as in the last republicant debate.


The Democrats
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:20pm PT
However, the DOT&E Report on the F-35 program published in January 2015 determined that the plane has not, in fact, reached any of the nine reliability measures the program was supposed to achieve by this point in its development and that the Joint Program Office has been re-categorizing failure incidents to make the plane look more reliable than it actually is. Further, the complexity of maintaining the F-35 means that, currently, none of the Services are ready to keep it in working order and instead “rely heavily on contractor support and unacceptable workarounds.”
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:21pm PT
Jeb, who has been in free-fall, need a clear and convincing performance.

Did he get it?
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:26pm PT
Heidi & I watched most of the-----discussion, it was not a debate.

Mostly, we heard a lot of conservative "talking-points."

Several of the more right-wing folks, including Rand Paul, brought up their oposition to the budget agreement, that most pundits think will save America from a repeat of the 2013 budget debacle.

In the Associated Press Fact Check article, this got mentioned:


SEN. RAND PAUL: The new budget agreement "will explode the deficit, it will allow President Obama to borrow unlimited amounts of money."

THE FACTS: The agreement allows $80 billion more spending over the next two years, which is only a small addition to the $3.67 trillion the government spends every year. The government's annual budget deficit has declined to $439 billion, about 2.5 percent of GDP, below the average for the past 40 years.

Overall, whatever its faults, most economists have responded to this week's budget deal between Congress and the White House with a sigh of relief. The agreement, approved by the House earlier Wednesday, sets funding levels and extends the government's borrowing limit for two more years, thereby taking the threat of a government shutdown and debt default off the table.

A 2013 budget fight led to a 16-day partial government shutdown that was widely blamed by most economists for sharp drops in consumer and business confidence that dragged on the economy.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ap-fact-check-the-republican-debaters-and-the-facts/ar-BBmxYHU?li=AAa0dzB



Rand Paul blustered that he would "Filibuster" the budget bill in the Senate if it passed the house.

Is this what we can now call a "fili-bluster?" Will we, the American public have the treat of him reading Dr. Seauss books like Ted Cruz did on his "filibluster"? I always thought Dr. Seuss was a liberal/commie & a short search on Goggle finds this Wikipedia post on his politics.


Geisel was a liberal Democrat and a supporter of President Franklin D. Roosevelt and the New Deal. His early political cartoons show a passionate opposition to fascism, and he urged action against it both before and after the United States entered World War II.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Seuss

Ron Paul! Filibluster on! I can hardly wait to see what you bluster.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:45pm PT
Norton: to everyone on the outside: YES!

I think the clownstick actually thinks he can lead. The rest are just owned by the Kock brothers - or on the dem side Billary owned by Wall Street.


And in all this hoopla did anyone catch The Bern's announcement on marijuana? That just might wake up a whole f*#kton of stoners. Yeah, sure, they will probably just get the munchies and nap again. Or, they might vote. Wouldn't that be a hoot? Voting. RARW!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:51pm PT
It appears that the big loser was Jeb.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:51pm PT
I think the real question is how will these asshats hold up in a real debate with someone who doesn't agree with them. Put any of these clowns against Bernie or Hillary and see a real discussion on issues; they won't be in the welcoming bosom of the converted and might actually have to answer real questions that have real consequences. What a joke. Talk about preaching to the converted. These people are in a bubble with positive feedback.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:59pm PT
^ ^ ^
Can't tell if the above comment is sarcasm, ill-informed, or just odd.
Consensus is that CNBC mods were terrible in asking hostile (not challenging, just obnoxious) questions; the candidates rebelled and established some semblance of a reasonable proceeding.

Most of the candidates had a pretty good night.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 28, 2015 - 08:59pm PT
at the moment the are in "The Bubble" but I'm preeeety sure they are not getting positive feedback from many of the rest of us also in said Bubble.

That aside - I'd love to see the Blowhard, or the dude on quaaludes, or any of the rest of these clowns debate. I mean try. The other guys suck won't work once, well, you know, you are debating the other guy/woman.

What's it going to be when they are down to 3 or 4. I guess just another reach around party with more reaching than arounding.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 28, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
There were some dumb questions but a lot of good ones. Few good answers and a lot of dumb ones.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 28, 2015 - 09:07pm PT
What's it going to be when they are down to 3 or 4. I guess just another reach around party with more reaching than arounding.

With any luck, that won't happen until after the debates BS is over.

Then Bush can emerge with his superior funding, and bury the rest in commercials.

Or so the thinking goes......
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 28, 2015 - 09:07pm PT
Neither Cruz (former clerk for Chief Justice, argued numerous cases before SCOTUS) nor Christie (former US Attorney) are my guys, but they can debate.

Jammer--think you what you want about Christie, but he had his moment when he shut up the moderator at the end.

Ken--yeah, Jeb looks pretty much done, he's just going through the motions now.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 28, 2015 - 09:09pm PT
Jeb just looks like he's been out of the business for too long.....
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 28, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
I don't give a damn about the bomber

Norton, don't tell me you don't give a damn about the bomber and then, in
the next breath, bewail the plight of the downtrodden masses! Fer Chrissake,
you can't have it both ways! You can pay us now, or you can pay us later.
You want bombers or health care? You can't have both.

Brennan, we have to stop passing each other like ships in the night.

Werner, I know you get that the Russian mind is the best of the East and
the West, that's why you don't want to play chess or poker against them.
Now, how do we convince the crankloons that it's a losing battle?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 28, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
That is a really good observation, Ken.
John M

climber
Oct 28, 2015 - 09:33pm PT
Anyone else besides me find it kind of ironic or hypocritical that the two front runners have no political experience? Considering how hard the GOP slammed Obama for not having enough experience.
John M

climber
Oct 28, 2015 - 09:39pm PT
Im not sure why you think its ironic or hypocritical that the two candidates in the middle have tons of political experience. Lol.

huh?? I have have no idea what this means.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 28, 2015 - 10:49pm PT
John M, I'm with you. I think it is very ironic.

The Repugs have run for a long time that they are the choice, because of their experience, their background, their knowledge.

they sure ran that message when President Obama ran the first time.

And I wonder, whether that sentiment may underlie some sentiment in this election. John E has already declared himself for Hillary vs Trump---because she is actually qualified, and won't be crazy.

I suspect a lot of people will think that.....
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Oct 29, 2015 - 02:31am PT
The Trumpkin
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 29, 2015 - 06:19am PT

Latest poll numbers. Guess who won last night..

Although I did like how Christy got upset about fantasy football..
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Oct 29, 2015 - 06:39am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Hey crakerloon I can watch her all day!
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Oct 29, 2015 - 07:45am PT
Jim Brennan wrote
Canada just elected Justin Trudeau as prime minister for precisely the reason that he's young and idealistic. We're willing to take a chance on novelty because the status quo for the last decade was a bunch of accountants.

How ironic that the young and idealistic contenders for next POTUS are republicans,
and the crusty old white status quo is on the democrat side. Just sayin.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Oct 29, 2015 - 07:48am PT
I consider myself, normally Left leaning. But the Left, is so deluded now, it's difficult for me to support. You can see it upthread.

There's a train approaching. It will be kicked off by bond downgrades on Government debt worldwide. It won't necessarily hit this year or next, but when it does, the ferocity, will be mind bending. The US Government, will be paralyzed by finger pointing and be no help.

It won't announce that there is a "grace period" until the year 2020, like many of the laws the Government passes either. It will be like Robocop. Submit or get trampled. It will be fear driven, by people that aren't ready to "forgive" debt.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 29, 2015 - 09:56am PT
I'm still trying to decipher the last two posts. Would it help if I snorted some crack, too?
If I got Duffield right does he think that US bonds are going to default along with the rest of
the world's? BwaHaHaHaHa! Dood, we're NOT Greece, we're The House and we're still
the dealer no matter what you've been reading.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 29, 2015 - 10:14am PT
actually, as pointed out before, it's packaged to 4th graders.

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politics/rofl-heres-a-professional-analysis-of-the-grade-level-of-a-donald-trump-speech/


dumbest of the dumb voting for Trump
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 29, 2015 - 10:42am PT
Jammy, we are substantially in agreement re The Donald. I just didn't get your referencing
Duffield's 'curious' post. Even The Donald gets that the US dollar and its bonds are still the
last bastion of financial safety and will continue to be for quite a while. IF and when China
puts its big boy financial panties on that may change but there is only token evidence of that
occurring.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 29, 2015 - 10:48am PT
Trump Palin 2016!

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 29, 2015 - 11:11am PT
I suppose there could be dumber. or drunkerer?


[Click to View YouTube Video]
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Oct 29, 2015 - 02:37pm PT
jammer, is your last name Palin?
dirtbag

climber
Oct 29, 2015 - 02:44pm PT
I just ignore him.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 3, 2015 - 09:48am PT
The aftermath of the CNBC debate has been interesting. Full disclosure: I didn't watch the debate. While some of the debate questions seem ridiculous, others which candidates objected to were actually legitimate questions about their records.

In any event, the candidates are now overreacting. They have canceled their appearance on Telemundo and have asked for a more candy-assed debate structure. While canceling an appearance on Telemundo won't make a difference to trump, how do other republican candidates ever hope to expand their electorate beyond their declining white male base?

They are doing themselves no favors.

Edit: and meanwhile, democrats are negotiating with Telemundo to increase the number of democratic debates broadcasted on Telemundo to 2.
John M

climber
Nov 3, 2015 - 09:56am PT
They are doing themselves no favors.

agreed.

I did watch at least 50 percent of the debate, ( world series was on ) and the debate moderators were pathetic. It was shouting matches and sneeringly asked questions. The tone was terrible. Sure some of the questions were legitimate, but the whole tenor of the thing was whack. Hardly any decorum. Those running had more decorum then the moderators. And thats a sad situation given whose running.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 3, 2015 - 10:08am PT
"how do other republican candidates ever hope to expand their electorate beyond their declining white male base?"


They obviously have little interest in doing so- the platform of virtually every Republican candidate in the last several elections has been dominated by bloviating blowhard white males whose primary goal seems to be to alienate as many women and minorities as possible.

Remember bluering's 'Restoring Conservatism' thread? He started it right after 2008 swept the Republicans out of so many offices, and sent them into the wilderness to try to find themselves again- there was much hand-wringing that the negativity that had been such a primary tool for the GOP should be abandoned, and was not part of their true identity.

Well, obviously they walked out of that wilderness with no such enlightenment. The GOP continues to embrace divisiveness, fear, misogyny, and xenophobia as their primary tools.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Nov 3, 2015 - 10:11am PT
The GOP continues to embrace divisiveness, fear, misogyny, and xenophobia as their primary tools.

well, then. Riddle me this? Their #1 candidate, is a well-spoken African American?
dirtbag

climber
Nov 3, 2015 - 10:20am PT
Exactly, apogee, and I remember that thread well.

To expand, they need to eschew many of their core "principles" that are fundamentally hostile to inclusion. They can't expand otherwise.

But of course, if they do that, then what would be left of the party? My guess would be a fragmented national Republican Party, which actually might now be in the early stages of fragmenting, if the House of Representatives and presidential campaigns are indications, resulting in two parties: the old Repiblican apparatus and an independent/right wing party less prone to compromise, led by trump or a trump ally. Both will be competing for votes.

Interesting to watch.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 3, 2015 - 10:25am PT
Carson hates gay people, is scared of Muslims, and would turn women into baby factories.

How is he any different?

He is a misogynysotic, divisive, fearful hate monger.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Nov 3, 2015 - 10:26am PT
well-spoken

Maybe on matters related to brain surgery. On politics, he's a hot mess.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 3, 2015 - 10:42am PT
Even The Donald gets that the US dollar and its bonds are still the last bastion of financial safety and will continue to be for quite a while.

I think you're missing what happens when interest rates rise. Sure, U.S. government debt securities are safer than almost any other investment. The issue isn't the safety of the bonds, it's the effect of interest payments on governmental budgets. If we had not been experiencing negative real interest rates for most of this administration's tenure, we would be paying monumentally large debt service. At least the U.S. government can increase the supply of dollars. State and local governments, with their gargantuan, off-the-books, debt for pensions of retired public employees, have no recourse.

If you think California's budget is ugly now, just wait.

John
dirtbag

climber
Nov 3, 2015 - 12:01pm PT
"Have you noticed that everyone of these candidates say, 'Obama's weak. Putin's kicking sand in his face. When I talk to Putin, he's going to straighten out,'" Obama said, impersonating a refrain among Republican candidates that he's allowed Russian President Vladimir Putin too much leeway.


"Then it turns out they can't handle a bunch of CNBC moderators at the debate. Let me tell you, if you can't handle those guys, then I don't think the Chinese and the Russians are going to be too worried about you," Obama said.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/02/politics/obama-republicans-cnbc/

Nailed it.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Nov 3, 2015 - 12:16pm PT
have no fear

#JebCanFixIt
John M

climber
Nov 3, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
good post dirtbag.. LOL
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Nov 3, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
Interesting article on Carson:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/11/ben-carson-running-for-president.html
dirtbag

climber
Nov 3, 2015 - 12:39pm PT
Huh. That would explain a lot.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Nov 3, 2015 - 12:45pm PT
Ben Carson is this election's Sarah Palin. Nothing more.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 3, 2015 - 12:48pm PT
Palin looks a lot better in a bikini holding a gun, though.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Nov 3, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
I think you're missing what happens when interest rates rise. Sure, U.S. government debt securities are safer than almost any other investment. The issue isn't the safety of the bonds, it's the effect of interest payments on governmental budgets. If we had not been experiencing negative real interest rates for most of this administration's tenure, we would be paying monumentally large debt service.

Exactly.

Currently, we are enjoying low gas prices, low interest rates and the stock market is high. Why is there not a movement to repeal the 2 term amendment and renew another 4 years of this wonderful President?

But the debt spirals ever upward. At some point, not so far in the future, it will be the debt markets making policy decisions via bond downgrades.

August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Nov 3, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
The tone was terrible. Sure some of the questions were legitimate, but the whole tenor of the thing was whack. Hardly any decorum.

Well, in fairness they were at a Republican debate after all...
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 3, 2015 - 07:26pm PT
Obama said
"They can't handle a bunch of CNBC moderators"

Actually Obama mischaracterized the scenario. They handled the moderators fairly well.
The republicans should shut up and move on, otherwise they look their usual pathetic.

BTW:
Didn't the dems, including Obama, refuse to debate on Fox back in 2008? 2 times?
Kinda ironic, eh?

As far as the national debt of the past 7 or so years:
When you use your credit card and charge up a storm, things look pretty good for a while.
Our country's financial chickens will come home to roost, one way or another.
John M

climber
Nov 3, 2015 - 07:30pm PT
I wish Republicans would acknowledge how many times the debt has doubled under Republican presidents. It tripled under their hero Reagan. Why didn't they say anything when it doubled under George Bush Jr?

This in no way means I don't recognize the seriousness of our debt. I cheered when dems and repubs under Clinton worked to balance the budget and even start to pay down the debt. I would cheer again. I don't care who does it. Just get it done.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 3, 2015 - 07:36pm PT
As far as the national debt of the past 7 or so years:
When you use your credit card and charge up a storm, things look pretty good for a while.
Our country's financial chickens will come home to roost, one way or another.

Yeah, I guess, but the urgency has been overstated. The first priority for the past several years should have been recovery from the disastrous recession. Anyway, debts always go up during recessions.
John M

climber
Nov 3, 2015 - 07:39pm PT
very good points dirtbag.. I wish the republicans would acknowledge those things.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 3, 2015 - 08:18pm PT
Me too.

That party has become really weird.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Nov 4, 2015 - 06:18am PT
I wish Republicans would acknowledge how many times the debt has doubled under Republican presidents.

Indeed. Fiscal responsibility, seems to be a code for chopping the other sides programs. Bush Jr, really opened the debt floodgates after 9/11. I feel so much safer. Having lots of Generals and Admirals with huge pensions, really adds to our defense.

As for the debt lacking urgency, fact is, it's tripled within the last several years. We're in uncharted territory with numbers, that are so large, no one really has a feel for it.

But there's simply no good reason to continue to run up massive debts at this time.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 4, 2015 - 06:32am PT
Sounds like you guys are using Bush's irresponsible spending to excuse Obama's spending.

True, debts do go up during a recession. According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the Great Recession ending over 6 years ago.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Nov 4, 2015 - 06:52am PT
Democrats ignore the election results last night at their peril. This "outsider" thing is real. Trump or Carson could very well be the GOP nominee. Their base is motivated, taking aside how ridiculous their candidates are. Right-wing media has done it's job, and the rise of social media negates comparisons to past elections.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Nov 4, 2015 - 06:56am PT
Agreed, and something like my "cryptic" post upthread. But I think one term of the Donald or the Ben and people will realize why they need a professional politician.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 4, 2015 - 06:58am PT
It ended six years ago but recovery has been ongoing.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Nov 4, 2015 - 06:58am PT

Donald 'DUCK'!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Nov 4, 2015 - 07:22am PT
Actually Obama mischaracterized the scenario. They handled the moderators fairly well.

You mean when they lied directly to the moderators faces by denying the facts that the moderators had in hand? Or when they didn't address the question that was asked, then rudely interrupted the moderators after their time was up by shouting "Don't you want me to answer? Don't you want to hear what I have to say?"

What a bunch of babies.

The truth is those candidates don't want a debate, they want a way to give stump speeches, because any question that digs into details is too tough for them to answer honestly.

And Carson on the GOP ticket, touting tithing? Yeah, right.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Nov 4, 2015 - 07:24am PT
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 4, 2015 - 07:44am PT
K-man wrote:
What a bunch of babies.
The truth is those candidates don't want a debate, they want a way to give stump speeches, because any question that digs into details is too tough for them to answer honestly

That's always been true of politicians, every party, every year. That's how Obama has governed for near 7 years...campaign stump speeches.

But the irony of the democrats, inclucing Obama, refusing to debate on Fox News, 2 different times in 2008, is not perceived?
The clowns reside on both sides, and Washington DC is a cesspool of corruption and crony capitalism...which is why outsiders like Trump, Sanders & Carson are so fresh to so many.

Do you embrace the status quo?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 4, 2015 - 07:51am PT
I'm sorry, Larry but you can't really drop the "both sides do it" card on this. Republicans have for at least the last 20-30 years (and with increasing fervor) used the media as their victim card. Obama bombed in his first debate against Romney...I don't recall any of his staff blaming the moderator. Anderson Cooper was extremely direct and tough on the Democrats during the debate a few weeks ago and nobody blamed him for "being too tough" except for Jim "I need more time!" Webb who was roundly mocked by everyone.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 4, 2015 - 08:01am PT
Actually, dingus, the last republican debate was held on CNBC, which tends to have a conservative bent.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 4, 2015 - 08:10am PT
The first Republican debate was on FOX and when Trump didn't like the (perfectly good) question Megyn Kelly asked he screamed bloody murder (out of his whatever) until Ailes called and kissed his ass enough.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Nov 4, 2015 - 02:45pm PT

True, debts do go up during a recession. According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the Great Recession ending over 6 years ago.

And the deficit is only about 1/3 of what it was during the peak. Not to mention that the recovery is ongoing. And not to mention that with interest rates that were almost at zero percent, it would have been a great time to borrow money and rebuild a lot of crumbing infrastructure.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 4, 2015 - 05:03pm PT
Well, it seems to me an exhibition of leadership---or not.

The debate was set up and negotiated IN ADVANCE, according to the requirements agreed upon by the Repugs---through their leadership at the RNC.

So, how did the do in this negotiation? Pretty poor, apparently.

But as the President correctly points out, if they can't handle negotiations with a network---who last time I looked had no weapons at all----what will be their approach to negotiating with PUTIN????
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 4, 2015 - 05:35pm PT
But as the President correctly points out, if they can't handle negotiations with a network---who last time I looked had no weapons at all----what will be their approach to negotiating with PUTIN????

Certainly better than the current POTUS, who has yet to demonstrate an ability to negotiate with anyone.

In reality, though, one could argue that CNBC did the Republicans a favor by demonstrating, in however small a measure, the media bias apparent to anyone familiar with objectivity.

John
John M

climber
Nov 4, 2015 - 05:41pm PT
As long as you are willing to admit the bias of Fox.

The notion that the media is liberal is sad in my opinion. It is biased according to who owns it. And it can be tweaked to look one way, while being another. Such as promoting liberal things like abortion and gay marriage, while promoting things like war or privatizing social security. In that mix, the conservatives would say it is liberal and the liberals would say it is conservative.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 4, 2015 - 05:46pm PT
Of course I see the bias of Fox, which is why I seldom watch it. I'd rather get viewpoints that differ from mine.

That said, Fox and MSNBC at least don't spend much effort to disguise their biases, nor do they spend much time purporting to report fact rather than opinion. Compare that, if you will, to ABC, NBC or CBS.

I always go back to this example because I find it irrefutable. A few years back, ABC reported that the defense budget was increased 8%, but domestic spending was decreased 2%. The truth: defense spending was 8% higher than that of the previous year, domestic spending was 6% higher than the previous year.

While one might argue that 6% is a 2% cut from 8%, no one would know that existed without going to the budget document, and I contend that ABC intended that deception. The similar deceptions are legion.

John
Norton

Social climber
Nov 4, 2015 - 05:48pm PT
Certainly better than the current POTUS, who has yet to demonstrate an ability to negotiate with anyone.

oh barf,

cut your asinine constantly partisan crap talk, John you are smarter than that

why not act like it instead of slipping back into ignorant bitchism now and then

IF a President's ability to "negotiate" is SO important to you then why did you
vote for Bush twice, come on, damn I am tired of this sh#t

Why did you vote for Bush again in 2004 after the world knew he lied about Iraq?

but keeping taking any cheap ass shot you can at Obama, you ARE a Republican
John M

climber
Nov 4, 2015 - 05:50pm PT
I agree with you substantially, except for this..

That said, Fox and MSNBC at least don't spend much effort to disguise their biases,

Fox bills itself as unbiased continually, and is the most watched new source. Certainly it doesn't really hide its opinion, unless you are blind. but lots of people then appear to be blind.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 4, 2015 - 05:55pm PT
Norton, Norton. You know you don't need to hold back with me. I can take it.

John
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Nov 4, 2015 - 05:55pm PT
Certainly better than the current POTUS, who has yet to demonstrate an ability to negotiate with anyone.

Are you talking about a president who got Obamacare passed without the 60 required votes in the Senate?


Hahahahahaha.

Read about the reconciliation act of 2010 here:

http://www.briansussman.com/politics/how-obamacare-became-law/

And this: ( the democrats got 10 crossover votes here)

http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/111/senate/1/396
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 4, 2015 - 06:13pm PT
Huge corporations benefit from their partnership with even bigger government.

They want a big government Democrat or a big government RINO running things.

Bush or Rubio (fox)

Hilary (everyone else)

are the horses they've picked to ride.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Nov 4, 2015 - 06:19pm PT
Nah. The longer this drags on, the more I think it will be President the Donald.

I'll be reading all about it in Buenos Aires.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Nov 4, 2015 - 07:11pm PT
Oddly (or unfortunately) I've actually been thinking Trump might be the best Republican candidate. At least he says what he sort of believes, and is willing to say that Social Security, Medicare, et al are okay.

I'm sure that he started this as an internal joke and was laughing all the way but, really, he's WAY better than Carson (an idiot savant apparently), Cruz (scary), Bush (another idiot, repeatedly shooting himself in the foot or feet, as the case may be), Huckabee, an insane 'Christian' grifter, Rubio who can't balance his own budget, and others who I can't recall right now.

So, go Trump!!!
Norton

Social climber
Nov 4, 2015 - 07:22pm PT
Norton, Norton. You know you don't need to hold back with me. I can take it.

John

sorry John, but I admit to getting frustrated with you

you who recently said that given the choice of your own party's candidates that
you would vote for Hillary Clinton....

when I read that I am blown away, amazed, really, that you showed that you were indeed capable of critical analysis without overriding bias

I was impressed John

and then......after meaning to email you to profess my admiration, I read the same
old sh#t from you, your inexplicable tendency to spout ignorant nonsense

be more specific please Norton?

John, unless you personally were at every damn national security briefing and every meeting with foreign leaders behind closed doors, then and only then can you pull your ugly partisanship out of your ass again and state your so very informed opinion that president Obama does "not know how to negotiate", well fuk me

why don't you tell Stephen Hawking that he doesn't know his ass about Astro-Physics
while you re at it, John?

you have a law degree, at some point you were taught to reason without bias and
personal arrogance, when did you forget that John?

when you went into the voting area and voted again for a Republican in 08 when
the economy was losing 500,000 jobs a month and was in recession? CHRIST
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 4, 2015 - 07:24pm PT
Norton's got a point, JohnE...
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Nov 4, 2015 - 07:49pm PT
Current POTUS negotiate with anyone?

Why would he when Congressional Republicans continue to wiff on their hay-makers and punch their own teeth in?
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 4, 2015 - 11:51pm PT
Norton,
JEleazarian has a different perspective than yours.
I've always thought that diversity of perspective and thought processes make the human species stronger, but it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.

Maybe John could be sent to a government re-education camp so he could see things more clearly.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 5, 2015 - 06:02am PT
John posted
In reality, though, one could argue that CNBC did the Republicans a favor by demonstrating, in however small a measure, the media bias apparent to anyone familiar with objectivity.

Which media bias was demonstrated, exactly? You think that it's biased for journalists to ask challenging questions of candidates during a debate? Asking candidates to explain the magical mystery math of their proposed tax plans as challenged by actual economic analysis is "liberal bias?"

As usual, the real biases of media get overlooked in favor of the deep, deep desire for Republicans to play the victims. The moderators certainly could be faulted for exhibiting the prominent media bias towards conflict and sensationalism. That's not the same thing as an overt political bias.

crankster- The mummified bodies found inside them were obviously farmers who accidentally fell in I guess?
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 06:13am PT
The candidates brought the crappy debate questions on themselves. Not one of them has yet to say anything related to any real world policy positions. It's all just trying to out crazy each other. They should be grateful anyone let them put their shitshow on television at all.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Nov 5, 2015 - 07:30am PT
re Crankster's Carson quote: Doesn't Carson know the pyramids aren't hollow? That they are just huge piles of stone? This man lives in an alternate universe where reality doesn't matter. He must be on drugs.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 5, 2015 - 08:26am PT
I can't believe some people are still trying counter the consensus opinion that the CNBC moderators did a horrible job. Does that prove media bias? I don't know. But it's fairly obvious the moderators did a disservice to the participants.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Nov 5, 2015 - 08:33am PT
Chris Christie, has a compelling clip that's viral today. In fact, there are several indications, the Republicans, are moving towards a more consistent social issues ideology. Some would say, day late and a dollar short.

But today, ISIS, has demonstrated they can get a bomb on a plane. Probably by scaring the crap out of Cargo Handlers. Though nothing is proven. Proof, doesn't matter as much as does perception. A lot of people fly, a lot of planes are crashing.

So people have to ask themselves. Does Hillary make them feel safe? In the end, I think that's where the election will go.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 08:48am PT
Certainly better than the current POTUS, who has yet to demonstrate an ability to negotiate with anyone.

Really, you are willing to bet the security of the US on this? You are not concerned that we might be electing someone who believes that God is telling them that it is their destiny to accelerate into the "endtimes", by a pre-emptive nuclear strike?

Whereas we have the example that "demonstrates" you don't know what you are talking about: Trans-Pacific Partnership Free Trade Agreement (TPP), negotiated by the President and 11 other heads of state.

Or the Iranian nuclear deal, negotiated by Obama, the other great powers, and one of the "three axis of evils". You may not like the deal, but you can't say that it was not successfully negotiated.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 08:49am PT
To be fair to John E, he did NOT say that he would vote for Hillary rather than any of the Repubs, he was specific about Donald Trump. (and I imagine that there are a couple of others that would not make the grade, either----but he did not say that)
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Nov 5, 2015 - 09:06am PT
Clinic. Today.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Nov 5, 2015 - 09:11am PT
We have 11 more months of this, so don't burn yourselves out yet. How about a slight, but presidentially related, diversion?

So here we go...little know presidential facts...

Did you know that Warren G. Harding's pet name for his penis was Jerry?

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Nov 5, 2015 - 09:14am PT
We have 11 more months of this, so don't burn yourselves out yet.

But this is the time when we actually have a choice. Once the Primaries start, the election boils down to a few people in a few states.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Nov 5, 2015 - 09:16am PT
Ahhhh sh#t. I hate it when people on these threads actually make sense. Makes me think.


edit; could be a great thread tho, Right?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 09:17am PT
WAS the CNBC questions overtly worse than the other debates???

http://www.vox.com/2015/11/3/9663038/cnbc-debate-hostile

So who were the Moderators:

Becky Quick: " Prior to her employment at CNBC, she covered retail and e-commerce industry topics for The Wall Street Journal and helped launch the paper's website in April 1996.[2] She served as the site’s International News Editor, overseeing foreign affairs coverage"

yep, the Wall STreet Journal, that liberal rag.

Carl Quintanilla: "From 1994 to 1999, Quintanilla served as a staff reporter for The Wall Street Journal where he wrote full-time for the newspaper's Chicago, Illinois, bureau, covering airlines, manufacturing and economic issues. He also wrote a weekly column on workplace issues and on-the-job trends for the newspaper's front page.

Again, that liberal rag!

John Harwood: "Before joining the Times, he wrote for The Wall Street Journal."

I dunno if it is really fair to automatically bag on the moderators, all of whom have worked for the WSJ, a notoriously conservative paper, particularly when it is supposed to be a debate on economic issues.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 5, 2015 - 09:25am PT
Did you know that Warren G. Harding's pet name for his penis was Jerry?

I didn't. But you'd think that a man with the last name "Harding" wouldn't need to nickname his penis.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Nov 5, 2015 - 09:27am PT
Apparently the name Jerry made "little Harding" seem more friendly and perhaps less threatning.
John M

climber
Nov 5, 2015 - 09:28am PT
Did you watch the debate Ken? I did.. Not all of the questions were asked with snotty tones, but many of John Harwoods certainly were. Moderators aren't meant to be combative. At least in my opinion. The guy behaved like a sh#t. Plus the way it was set up, the questions changed areas every question, so there was hardly any debating among candidates. Some of the candidates handle it pretty well, but it was something of a free for all. Which was probably partly design.. If you think about it. I just didn't care for it because there wasn't any real debate. Just either zingers or hack speeches.
Norton

Social climber
Nov 5, 2015 - 09:59am PT
what is really strange about the recent Repub debate is the questioners were all
from the financial network which seems, from my years of watching it, to lean politically quite right - Republican

and so criticize them for asking pointed questions of Republicans and to be criticized
for doing so as "gotcha" questions comes across as poor me the victim of media

don't recall any of the Dems whining and complaining after their debate, and yes,
they were asked very tough, and personal questions also

and yeah, I think gotcha questions are entirely fair game to ask
John M

climber
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:00am PT
It was the tone, plus some of the questions were just stupid.

Its pretty bad when the current line up of GOP candidates look more reasonable then one of the moderators.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:02am PT
^^^ I watched the debate and can agree with John M's assessment in part at least. Less substance that I anticipated after all the debates held so far without substance.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:11am PT
Did you watch the debate Ken? I did.. Not all of the questions were asked with snotty tones, but many of John Harwoods certainly were. Moderators aren't meant to be combative. At least in my opinion. The guy behaved like a sh#t. Plus the way it was set up, the questions changed areas every question, so there was hardly any debating among candidates. Some of the candidates handle it pretty well, but it was something of a free for all. Which was probably partly design.. If you think about it. I just didn't care for it because there wasn't any real debate. Just either zingers or hack speeches.


I watched only part---I found it too painful, and lacking in information.

But I have to say, these Repug debates all have struck me as quite weird. I think back to previous years, in which the audience is asked to remain quiet, and there is an atmosphere of dignity.

When I watched the first Repug debate, I wondered what I was watching!!! It reminded me of the opening of the game in "Running Man", centered on hype, hyperbole, and entertainment.

I thought it bizarre. It felt to me like the CNBC debate was following in those footsteps, but with moderators trying to do something that they are not typically doing, which is entertainment television.
John M

climber
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:16am PT
When I watched the first Repug debate, I wondered what I was watching!!! It reminded me of the opening of the game in "Running Man", centered on hype, hyperbole, and entertainment.

Exactly! I thought it bizarre too. No decorum and a kind of free for all, but considering what the repubs now consider to be "news reports".. i.e. faux news, glenn beck, rush limbaugh, bill Oliely. I guess we shouldn't be surprised.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:18am PT
Another scary thought of mine; when the presidential debates are only considered entertainment. We are pretty damn close already.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:40am PT
John, unless you personally were at every damn national security briefing and every meeting with foreign leaders behind closed doors, then and only then can you pull your ugly partisanship out of your ass again and state your so very informed opinion that president Obama does "not know how to negotiate", well fuk me

An objective observer, applying critical reasoning, judges by outcomes. In domestic policy, I have yet to see a demonstration of effective negotiation by this president. Obamacare was no negotiation; it was an imposition by a party with sufficient political power to do so. Negotiation requires a give-and-take, in which you obtain something more than you can impose. Where has Obama thus far demonstrated that effectively? Please don't tell me Ukraine. Putin demonstrated what he thinks of Obama's - and indeed NATO's - resolve.

The need to be "in every damn national security briefing" does, however, lie at the heart of why the "Bush lied" slogan is at best illegitimate, and at worst a lie in itself. We only know that intelligence reports conflicted. The administration and congress chose to believe the views of an Iraqi defector with a political axe to grind. With 20/20 hindsight, Plame, Wilson, et al. had better intelligence.

On this count, I continue to praise the Obama administration for its restraint in Syria. Yes, Putin's influence grows, but at least Obama knows our intelligence there remains awful. Had we intervened the way he implied with his now infamous "red line," we probably would have sent ISIS into even greater influence and power. For recognizing his - and our - limits, he deserves credit for doing something right.

That differs from what Hillary did regarding Benghazi. Emails to which the public now has access show that she told one thing to her colleagues in the administration and her non-governmental inner circle, and something entirely different to the American public, including members of the victims' families at least two weeks after she knew better. When asked why the two different stories, we got "What difference does it make now?"

The Democrats' office holders' reaction? So what? The objective reaction, again applying normal cirtical thinking reasoning: At least one of those two statements was not true, and she had to know that. Why did she persist in maintaining an untruth publicly? The Hillary-loving press, the non-Bernie Democrats, and the Clinton apparatus act as it the question has either been answered or has no relevance. Again, someone applying critical thinking can't help but conclude that the Clinton camp has something bad to hide.

Of course Norton and I are partisan. So what? Arguments should convince by the force of their logic, not by the personalities of their proponents. I respect Norton's opinions because he backs them up with real arguments. It does not, though, require that I agree.

John
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:49am PT
An objective observer, applying critical reasoning, judges by outcomes. In domestic policy, I have yet to see a demonstration of effective negotiation by this president. Obamacare was no negotiation; it was an imposition by a party with sufficient political power to do so. Negotiation requires a give-and-take, in which you obtain something more than you can impose. Where has Obama thus far demonstrated that effectively? Please don't tell me Ukraine. Putin demonstrated what he thinks of Obama's - and indeed NATO's - resolve.

John, I'm not sure that you meant the bait-and-switch, singling out domestic policy, then morphing into Ukraine.

So let's look at some outcomes:

Returned The Executive Branch To Fiscal Responsibility

Within his first week, he signed an Executive Order ordering an audit of government contracts, and combating waste and abuse. http://1.usa.gov/dUvbu5

Created the post of Chief Performance Officer, whose job it is to make operations more efficient to save the federal government money. http://n.pr/hcgBn1

On his first full day, he froze White House salaries. http://on.msnbc.com/ewJUIx

He appointed the first Federal Chief Information Officer to oversee federal IT spending.http://www.cio.gov

He committed to phasing out unnecessary and outdated weapons systems. To that end, he also signed the Democratic-sponsored Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act, which attempted to put a stop to waste, fraud and abuse in the defense procurement and contracting system. http://bit.ly/hOw1t1http://bit.ly/fz8GAd

Through an executive order, he created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform. http://bit.ly/hwKhKa

Prevented a Bush Depression and Improved the Economy

Pushed through and signed the Democratic-sponsored American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, otherwise known as “the stimulus package.” The bill passed, even though only three Republicans voted for it. In a major departure from the previous administration, he launched recovery.gov, a website that allows taxpayers to track spending from the Act. http://1.usa.gov/ibiFSshttp://1.usa.gov/e3BJMk

The Bush-led Great Recession was costing the economy nearly 800,000 jobs per month by the time President Obama took office. But by the end of his first year, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act created and sustained 2.1 million jobs and stimulated the economy by 3.5%. http://reut.rs/i46CEE

Not only did he completed the massive TARP financial and banking rescue plan, he also leaned on the banks and others, and recovered virtually all of the bail-out money. http://1.usa.gov/eA5jVShttp://bit.ly/eCNrD6

He created the Making Home Affordable home refinancing plan. http://1.usa.gov/goy6zl

Oversaw the creation of more jobs in 2010 alone than Bush did in eight years. http://bit.ly/hrrnjY

Along with Democrats, and almost no Republicans, implemented an auto industry rescue plan, and saved as many as 1 million jobs. http://bit.ly/ibhpxr Many are of the opinion that he saved the entire auto industry, and even the economy of the entire Midwest. http://bit.ly/gj7mt5This resulted in GM returning to its place as the top car company in the world. http://lat.ms/zIJuQx

Doubled funding for the Manufacturing Extension Partnership, which is designed to improve manufacturing efficiency. http://bit.ly/eYD4nf

Signed the Democratic-sponsored Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act giving the federal government more tools to investigate and prosecute fraud in every corner of the financial system, and create a bipartisan Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission to investigate the financial fraud that led to the economic meltdown. http://abcn.ws/g18Fe7

Signed the Democratic-sponsored Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility and Disclosure (CARD) Act, which was designed to to protect consumers from unfair and deceptive credit card practices. http://1.usa.gov/gIaNcS

Increased infrastructure spending after years of neglect. http://bit.ly/f77aOw

Signed the Democratic-sponsored and passed Helping Families Save Their Homes Act, expanding on the Making Home Affordable Program to help millions of Americans avoid preventable foreclosures. The bill also provided $2.2 billion to help combat homelessness, and to stabilize the housing market. http://bit.ly/eEpLFn

Through the Worker, Homeownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009, he and Congressional Democrats provided tax credits to first-time home buyers, which helped the U.S. housing market recovery. http://bit.ly/dZgXXwhttp://bit.ly/gORYfL

Initiated a $15 billion plan designed to encourage increased lending to small businesses. http://1.usa.gov/eu0u0b

Created business.gov, which allows for online collaboration between small businesses and experts re managing a business. (The program has since merged with SBA.gov.) http://www.business.gov

Played a lead role in getting the G-20 Summit to commit to a $1.1 trillion deal to combat the global financial crisis. http://nyti.ms/gHlgp5

Took steps to improve minority access to capital. http://bit.ly/f9xVE7

Signed an Executive Order instructing federal agencies to review all federal regulations and remove any unnecessary and/or burdensome regulations from the books. http://1.usa.gov/Lpo5bd

Through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, saved at least 300,000 education jobs, such as teachers, principals, librarians, and counselors that would have otherwise been lost. http://1.usa.gov/ez30D

Dismantled the Minerals Management Service, thereby cutting ties between energy companies and the government. http://nyti.ms/bw1MLu

Along with Congressional Democrats, provided funding to states and the Department of Homeland Security to save thousands of police and firefighter jobs from being cut during the recession. http://bit.ly/g0IKWR

Used recovered TARP money to fund programs at local housing finance agencies in California, Florida, Nevada, Arizona and Michigan. http://on.msnbc.com/i1i8eV

Crafted and signed an executive order establishing the President’s Advisory Council on Financial Capability to assist in financial education for all Americans. http://bit.ly/eyqsNE

China’s largest manufacturer, Foxconn, is building a large plant in Pennsylvania http://cnnmon.ie/1k7LT4S

Worked with Apple Computer to get them to build more product here, and thecompany is building two large plants to manufacture products here; one in Texas http://zd.net/1nkpt2O and one in Arizona http://bit.ly/1mXY5Vg

Oversaw increase of manufacturing jobs by more than 500,000 since 2010, and created an institute to invest in more manufacturing jobs in the technology fields of the future. http://nyti.ms/1egyXrV

Ordered all federal contractors to pay a minimum wage of $10.10 per hour, leading the way to a national increase. http://wapo.st/1iaU5kd

Ordered the completion of the International Trade Data System, a digital trade record book, by 2016. This move will streamline and simplify the process through which small- and medium-sized businesses set up the export of US goods. http://bit.ly/1nwSRF4

Created a climate in which there have been 55 consecutive months of job growth, totaling more than 10 million jobs, which is roughly 10,000,000 more jobs than Bush created in eight years. http://1.usa.gov/1vBDeyCThis is also the longest stretch of private-sector job growth in US history. http://wapo.st/1w3J8Zy

Led the country to 64 consecutive months of economic expansion, eclipsing Saint Reagan’s record, by far. http://onforb.es/1sxJ2by

Oversaw a reduction in the dollar amount of the federal budget deficit by two-thirds since taking office. http://bit.ly/1xKMmjY

Reduced the federal budget deficit from 9.8% of GDP in Fiscal Year 2009 under Bush, to 2.9% of GDP in FY 2014. http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45653

Under Obama, the stock market has reached record highs, restoring most of the economic losses felt during the Bush Recession, when it reached record lows, adjusted for inflation. http://bit.ly/1z4FAtL

Brought Much-Improved Transparency and Better Government

Signed an order banning gifts from lobbyists to anyone in the Executive Branch. http://bit.ly/fsBACN

Signed an order banning anyone from working in an agency they had lobbied in previous years, and put strict limits on lobbyists’ access to the White House. http://nyti.ms/gOrznV

Held the first-ever first online town hall from the White House, and took questions from the public. http://bit.ly/gVNSgX

Became the first to stream every White House event, live. http://1.usa.gov/kAgOP5

Established a central portal for Americans to find service opportunities. http://www.serve.gov

Issued an Executive Order on Presidential Records, which restored the 30-day time frame for former presidents to review records, and eliminated the right for the vice president or family members of former presidents to do the reviews. Provides the public with greater access to historic White House documents, and severely curtails the ability to use executive privilege to shield them. http://1.usa.gov/gUetLb

Improved aspects of the Freedom of Information Act, and issued new guidelines to make FOIA more open and transparent when processing FOIA requests. http://1.usa.gov/gjrnp2

Proposed rules that would streamline the Department of Education’s procurement policies and make them more transparent. http://bit.ly/1r9oQvh

Provided the first voluntary disclosure of the White House Visitors Log in history. http://1.usa.gov/hQ7

Signed a law to completely reform NSA Data Collection program and keep phone records in the hands of the phone company. http://bit.ly/1dG34vD

Wall Street Reforms and Consumer Protection

Ordered 65 executives who took bailout money to cut their own pay until they paid back all bailout money. http://huff.to/eAi9Qq

Along with Congressional Democrats, pushed through and got passed Dodd-Frank, one of the largest and most comprehensive Wall Street reforms since the Great Depression. http://bit.ly/hWCPg0http://bit.ly/geHpcD

By signing Dodd-Frank legislation, created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau http://1.usa.gov/j5onG

Created rules that reduce the influence of speculators in the oil market. http://bit.ly/MDnA1t

Fashioned rules so that banks can no longer use YOUR money to invest in high-risk financial instruments that work against their own customers’ interests. http://bit.ly/fnTayj

Supported the concept of allowing stockholders to vote on executive compensation. http://bit.ly/fnTayj

Endorsed and supported the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act of 2009 that would close offshore tax avoidance loopholes. http://bit.ly/esOdfBhttp://bit.ly/eG4DPM

Negotiated a deal with Swiss banks that now permits the US government to gain access to the records of criminals and tax evaders. http://bit.ly/htfDgw

Signed the American Jobs and Closing Tax Loopholes Act, which closed many of the loopholes that allowed companies to send jobs overseas, and avoid paying US taxes by moving money offshore.http://1.usa.gov/bd1RTq

Established a Consumer Protection Financial Bureau designed to protect consumers from financial sector excesses. http://bit.ly/fnTayj

Oversaw and then signed a Democratic bill constituting the most sweeping food safety legislation since the Great Depression. http://thedc.com/gxkCtP

Through the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act, extended the False Claims Act to combat fraud by companies and individuals using money from the TARP and Stimulus programs. http://bit.ly/SLTcSa

Set up rules for banks in handling legal marijuana money. http://nyti.ms/1b80o2K

Signed Executive Order to add a number of further protections to consumer financial transactions, to further limit instances of identity theft. http://1.usa.gov/1pjfUFq

Took steps to prevent pirate fishing and protect fish populations, and ordered stricter labeling requirements on labeling of seafood products in stores. http://1.usa.gov/1BYhTUn

Enhanced Civil Rights and Anti-Discrimination

Along with Congressional Democrats, advocated for and signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which made it a federal crime to assault anyone based on his or her sexual orientation or gender identity. http://bit.ly/gsMSJ7

Pushed through, signed and demanded the Pentagon enact a repeal of the discriminatory “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” policy that forced soldiers to lie in order to be eligible to fight for their country, and put our troops at risk by disqualifying many qualified soldiers from helping. http://bit.ly/fdahuHhttp://bit.ly/mZV4Pz

Extended benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees. http://1.usa.gov/g2RLCj

Appointed more openly gay officials than anyone in history. http://bit.ly/g1lA7D

Appointed first openly transgender Cabinet Official in History. http://bit.ly/58zUp7

Changed HUD rules to prohibit gender and sexual orientation-based discrimination in housing bit.ly/9RxEnP

Changed his mind and publicly expressed support for same-sex marriage. http://bit.ly/JsiFKp

Issued a Presidential Memorandum reaffirming the rights of gay couples to make medical decisions for each other. http://1.usa.gov/aUueGT

Wrote and signed an Executive Order establishing a White House Council on Women and Girls to ensure that all Cabinet and Cabinet-level agencies evaluate the effect of their policies and programs on women and families. http://bit.ly/e1puTkhttp://1.usa.gov/rFfqMM

Signed the Democratic-sponsored Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, which restored basic protections against pay discrimination for women and other workers. This was after the GOP blocked the bill in 2007. Only 5 Republican Senators voted for the bill. http://bit.ly/fT3Cxg

Signed two executive orders that mirror provisions of the Paycheck Fairness Act, because the GOP Congress refuses to pass it. It makes is possible for employees to talk about their salaries without retaliation, and orders salary data collection. These measures will make it harder for employers to pay women less. http://huff.to/1nwVOWf

Expanded funding for the Violence Against Women Act. http://1.usa.gov/dSbI0x

Under his guidance, National Labor Relations Board issued final rules that require all employers to prominently post employees’ rights where all employees or prospective employees can see it, including all websites and intranets. http://1.usa.gov/qu2EhQ

Advocated that United Nations adopt a policy supporting gay rights worldwide. http://lat.ms/pQe1RS

Issued an order requiring hospitals to allow visitation by same-sex couples. http://reut.rs/llNJek

Appointed Kareem Dale as the first ever Special Assistant to the President for Disability Policy. http://1.usa.gov/fi5IY0

Helped Democrats in Congress pass and signed the Civil Rights History Act. http://bit.ly/th0JC8

Established the White House Council of Native American Affairs, to improve government-to-government relations with Native American nations. http://1.usa.gov/1cIEeEv

Formed a commission to examine and make recommendations for fixing the broken voting system. http://wapo.st/16K0D

As soon as the Supreme Court invalidated the Defense of Marriage Act, he moved to extend federal benefits to same-sex couples. http://wapo.st/1avDjue

At a press conference August 9, 2013, gave up a small measure of executive power, promising to create adversarial process in FISA regarding NSA surveillance. http://1.usa.gov/1dQmnyQ

Proposed new HUD rules that would enhance Fair Housing Laws, to give HUD and other enforcement agencies more teeth in enforcing them. http://bit.ly/1qkz4uQ

Shattered another glass ceiling by naming Janet Yellen chair of the Federal Reserve beginning Feb. 1, 2014. http://usat.ly/1gqMBfk

Appointed several prominent gay athletes and others, and plans to show US government’s commitment to gay rights to anti-gay Russia. http://on.cpsj.com/1fckN9h

Ordered a review of capital punishment policies after several botched executions. http://nyti.ms/RDJp58

Obama’s Department of Agriculture propagated new rules designed to better enforce nondiscrimination when it comes to USDA investigations. These rules also extended nondiscrimination to gender identity. http://bit.ly/1yChJhi

Obama’s Equal Employment Opportunity Commission clarified and strengthened rules prohibiting discrimination against pregnant workers. http://alj.am/1mo0kjV

Banned all federal contractors from discriminating against gay workers. http://1.usa.gov/1ok1gfH

Created a requirement in which companies who bid on federal contracts of more than $500,000 must publicly disclose all previous violations of labor law, including unpaid claims for back wages. http://1.usa.gov/V54qY3

Made it illegal for federal contractors with more than $1 million in contracts to force employees into arbitration to settle workplace discrimination accusations. http://1.usa.gov/V54qY3

The Obama Department of Justice made significant reductions in drug sentencing guidelines for current prisoners, thus releasing thousands from US prisons. This is the first step in 30 years toward reducing the US prison population, which is the highest in the world. http://n.pr/1mWBLkM

Thanks to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, inflation in the healthcare sector dropped to its lowest point in 50 years. http://on.wsj.com/1E6cYjF

Through a Presidential Memorandum, changed the rules to concentrate immigration enforcement on those who commit crimes, and voed to stop breaking up families. http://1.usa.gov/1uTZ8gV

Through another Presidential memorandum, President Obama streamlined the visa process, to make it more responsive and humane for those who want to be here legally. http://1.usa.gov/1tgDRti

Took steps to tighten the reins when it comes to providing local law enforcement agencies with military-style equipment and exercising more control over the equipment they receive. http://1.usa.gov/1ATWV3K

Oversaw the first drop in the federal prison population in 32 years. http://bit.ly/1B5h8rW

Vetoed Republican bill that would have blocked new NLRB rules that were designed to speed up the time it takes workers to unionize. http://reut.rs/1agujMO He also added a Memorandum of Disagreement to make his reasons for the veto clear and made a major statement in support of unions. http://1.usa.gov/1NG7RuA

Persevered with his campaign to turn “gay marriage” into “marriage” and won in the Supreme Court. http://cbsloc.al/1M4qLKb

Plans to broaden his use of clemency to release thousands of non-violent drug offenders from prison. http://nyti.ms/1KE8DJG

Created new rules to improve fair housing rules and make more affordable housing available to more people. http://cnn.it/1JcR3qB

Major Improvements in Foreign Relations, American Status around the World

Visited more countries and met with more world leaders than any previous president during his first six months in office. http://bit.ly/hZycda

As he promised, he gave a speech at a major Islamic forum in Cairo early in his administration. http://nyti.ms/dKvY4g

Helped to restore America’s reputation around the world as a global leader that does the “right thing” in world affairs, at least according to the rest of the world. http://bit.ly/h743y7http://bit.ly/ho4TCr

Re-established and reinforced our partnership with NATO and other allies on strategic international issues. http://1.usa.gov/e7QuDj

Closed a number of secret detention facilities. http://nyti.ms/rpUc9l

Improved relations with Middle East countries by appointing special envoys. http://1.usa.gov/tiGAGe

Pushed forward the first realistic Middle East peace strategy in more than a decade, without abandoning the two-state solution. http://wapo.st/1avyste

Pushed for military to emphasize devlopment of foreign language skills. http://bit.ly/AxUCLV

Offered $400 million to the people living in Gaza, called on both Israel and the Palestinians to stop inciting violence. http://bit.ly/9axfWh

Refused to give Israel the green light to attack Iran over their possible nuclear program, and thus avoid another war that Republicans wanted. http://bit.ly/xVmSZK

Ordered the closure of the prison at Guantanamo Bay. It was Republicans (and, unfortunately, progressive Democrats) who prevented follow through. http://bit.ly/eW6CVF

Ordered a review of our detention and interrogation policy, and prohibited the use of torture, or what Bush called “enhanced interrogation.” He ordered interrogators to limit their actions to the Army Field manual. http://bit.ly/g6MTuC

Ordered all secret detention facilities in Eastern Europe and elsewhere to be closed. http://bbc.in/h6N9ax

Released the Bush torture memos. http://bit.ly/hWJ5z0

On his second day in office, he signed a detailed Executive Order that banned torture, reversed all Bush torture policies, and put the United States in compliance with the Geneva Convention. http://1.usa.gov/dL6Zvehttp://nyti.ms/hzWWys

In response to the emerging “Arab Spring,” he created a Rapid Response fund, to assist emerging democracies with foreign aid, debt relief, technical assistance and investment packages in order to show that the United States stands with them. http://bit.ly/zfmGv9

Ended the F-22 program, saving $4 billion. Though the single-seat, twin-engine, fighter aircraft cost $358 million each, and the military had 187 built, the F-22 never flew a combat mission. http://slate.me/PYzmzT

Passed the Iran Sanctions Act, to prevent war and encourage the Iranian government to give up their nuclear program. http://1.usa.gov/wLtNjb

Ended the Iraq War. http://tgr.ph/ru0tyS

Worked to keep our withdrawal from Afghanistan on track, despite GOP opposition.http://reut.rs/1cIOsF1Reiterated that commitment in 2014. http://nyti.ms/1exnmRF

Authorized and oversaw a secret mission by SEAL Team Six to rescue two hostages held by Somali pirates. http://bit.ly/y8c9Fz

Through United Nations Ambassador Susan Rice, helped negotiate a peaceful split of Sudan into two countries, this allowing for the creation of an independent South Sudan. http://reut.rs/qzE0Tj[/quote]
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:51am PT
[quote]Worked with Democratic Congress to make donations to Haiti tax deductible in 2009. http://huff.to/6YkAVY

Established a new U.S.-China Strategic and Economic Dialogue. http://1.usa.gov/eX28DP

Issued Executive Order blocking interference and helping to stabilize Somalia. http://1.usa.gov/hxdf8U

Established new, more reasonable policies in our relations with Cuba, such as allowing Cuban-Americans to visit their families and send money to support them. http://n.pr/hY3Kwa http://nyti.ms/emQBde

Negotiated the framework for an agreement with Iran that would end their nuclear weapons program. http://bit.ly/1y5aD97

Became the first US President to visit Jamaica in more than 30 years and worked to restore relations with the country, and signed a natural gas distribution agreement with the country. http://bit.ly/1JtpFqi

Opened the first Embassy in Cuba in more than 55 years. http://abcn.ws/1ghLrEs

Negotiated a deal with Iran that will prevent them from getting a nuclear weapon anytime soon, without firing a shot or invading the country. http://cnn.it/1M3Hpvv

A More Realistic Approach to “Defense” and National Security

Created a comprehensive new strategy for dealing with the international nuclear threat. http://1.usa.gov/gDX1nE

Authorized a $1.4 billion reduction in Star Wars program in 2010. http://1.usa.gov/gLFZl2

Restarted nuclear nonproliferation talks and built up the nuclear inspection infrastructure/protocols to where they had been before Bush. http://lat.ms/gkcl3i

Signed and pushed through ratification a new SALT Treaty. http://bit.ly/f3JVtw

Negotiated and signed a new START Treaty that will lst until at least 2021. http://1.usa.gov/cI1bC4

Through the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), reversed the Bush Administration and committed to no permanent military bases in Iraq. http://bit.ly/hk73OJ

Developed first comprehensive strategy with regard to Afghanistan and Pakistan designed to facilitate the defeat of al Qaeda and the withdrawal of most troops, as well as the rebuilding of Afghanistan. http://wapo.st/ee4Xcs

Returned our focus to Afghanistan, stabilized the country, and began the process of withdrawing our troops from the country. http://bit.ly/lNXUna

Negotiated a deal with Afghan govenment, to withdraw troops and military support, while assisting in rebuilding and modernizing of the country. http://bit.ly/K362an

Took steps to severely weaken al Qaeda and limited their ability to terrorize the world. http://yhoo.it/n5lXs6

Negotiated and signed a nuclear nonproliferation treaty with India. http://1.usa.gov/aHp0Cn

Took decisive action to use NATO to limit the slaughter of innocents in Libya, so that the Libyan people could topple the despotic Khadaffy government and determine their own fate. http://aje.me/qAh4Sj

Got Egyptian President/dictator Mubarak to leave the Egyptian government to the people, to determine their own fate. http://f24.my/efvgNZ

In 2011, reoriented American focus from the Middle East to the Asian-Pacific region by simultaneouly engaging China and crafting new alliances with Asian countries uncomfortable with Chinese behavior. http://bit.ly/RGlMDi

Restored federal agencies such as FEMA to the point that they have been able to manage a huge number of natural disasters successfully. http://bit.ly/h8Xj7z

Authorized Navy SEALS to successfully secure the release of a US captain held by Somali pirates and increased patrols off the Somali coast. http://nyti.ms/efBO7B

Increased border security http://bit.ly/1JQDGz9

Ordered and oversaw the Navy SEALS operation that killed Osama bin Laden. http://bit.ly/jChpgw

Established the Homeland Security Partnership Council, which will attempt to enhance the nation’s ability to “address homeland security priorities, from responding to natural disasters to preventing terrorism, by utilizing diverse perspectives, skills, tools, and resources.” http://1.usa.gov/VJjLXO

Signed agreement with Afghanistan to end war, turn security over to Afghans. http://nyti.ms/1xSjgBd

Breaking with presidential tradition, especially recent tradition, instead of just attacking Syria in the wake of chemical weapons attacks on Syrians, Obama ordered a full report on the decision-making process, should he decide to order one. http://cbsn.ws/184RFgu

Instead of holding hearings and trying to create a political football, quietly captured a suspect who actually committed the Benghazi terrorist attack. http://wapo.st/1jFlmzv He is also getting a lot of useful information from the suspect. http://nyti.ms/UfE2Ka

Signed an executive order allowing sanctions against individuals and groups that threaten national cybersecurity. http://1.usa.gov/1HWcGMG

Limited local police acquisitions of military-style equipment, to reduce the likelihood of overkill. http://n.pr/1NGkBjT

Signed Blue Alert Law, which provides police officers with more information when they are threatened. http://bit.ly/1NGksga

Returned Government to Treating Soldiers and Veterans with Dignity and Respect

Provided active combat troops with better body armor. http://bit.ly/hzSv2h

Created Joint Virtual Lifetime Electronic Record program for military personnel, in order http://abcn.ws/1ghLrEshttp://abcn.ws/1ghLrEsto improve the quality of their medical care. http://1.usa.gov/f4yaxW

Put an end to the Bush-era stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan beyond their enlistment date. http://nyti.ms/e2YQ7Q

Along with Congressional Democrats, supported and signed Veterans Health Care Budget Reform and Transparency Act, which made more money available to enable better medical care for veterans. http://1.usa.gov/fN4ur1

Along with Congressional Democrats, ushered through largest spending increase in 30 years for Department of Veterans Affairs, with money to go to improved medical facilities, and to assist states in acquiring or constructing state nursing homes and extended care facilities. http://1.usa.gov/gY8O3x

Created the Green Vet Initiative, which provided special funding to the Labor Department to provide veterans with training in green jobs. http://bit.ly/epwUQY

Initiated and signed a recruitment and employment plan to get more veterans into government jobs. http://bit.ly/b48coi

Oversaw a $4.6 billion expansion of the Veterans Administration budget to pay for more mental health professionals. http://bit.ly/gjzTxX

Signed the Military Spouses Residency Relief Act, which ensures that spouses of military personnel who are forced to move because their spouse is posted for military duty will be able to avoid state taxes in their temporary residence. http://bit.ly/1Gh0NX

Issued an Executive Order to improve access to mental health care for veterans, military personnel and their families. http://1.usa.gov/TP7PVZ

was able to get Syria to dismantle its chemical weapons without military firing a single shot or dropping a single bomb. http://nyti.ms/1lVEkU7

Along with Congressional Democrats, not only reauthorized families of fallen soldiers to be able to visit when the body arrives at Dover AFB, but also provided funding for it. Ended the media blackout on coverage of the return of fallen soldiers. http://nyti.ms/glqN66 http://bbc.in/gWSSkA

Funded Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) with an extra $1.4 billion to improve veterans’ services. http://1.usa.gov/huhqfo

Signed into law a bill that provides support, counseling, and breastfeeding supplies to military moms who are covered under TRICARE, the health insurance provided to veterans. http://bit.ly/1yNxL8O

Refocused the Federal Government on Education, Made Rational Reforms

Through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, invested heavily in elementary, secondary and post-secondary education. http://1.usa.gov/gGRIAr

Created the Race to the Top program, which encouraged states to come up with effective school reforms and rewards the best of them. http://bit.ly/NHtZ7L

Oversaw major expansion of broadband availability in K-12 schools nationwide. http://bit.ly/fNDcj3

Oversaw major expansion in school construction. http://bit.ly/fYwNrV

Also through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, he put $5 billion into early education, including Head Start. http://1.usa.gov/tzT2Rr

Signed the Democratic-sponsored Post-9/11 GI Bill, also known as GI Bill 2.0 http://bit.ly/hPhG7J[/quote]
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:51am PT
Ken, some of those are imaginary (e.g. "prevented a Bush depression"), others merely unilateral actions (e.g. made executive orders). Which demonstrates an ability to negotiate?

edit: Oh yes, the Iran treaty. Let's see, Iran was already treaty-bound not to pursue or obtain nuclear weapons, ever. He negotiated an agreement so they are free to do what they want in a decade or so, and they will police themselves in the meantime.

I'm sure Vladimir was deeply impressed.

John
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:52am PT
[quote]Oversaw expansion of the Pell Grants program, to expand opportunity for low and middle income students to go to college. http://bit.ly/hI6tXz

Along with Democratic Congress, passed and signed Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, which provided an extra $12.2 billion in funds. http://1.usa.gov/dQvtUe

Took major new steps to protect students from ineffective for-profit colleges through “gainful employment” measures, whereby schools have to demonstrate that its students actually find work to get federal aid. http://1.usa.gov/jkzQe2

Repeatedly increased funding for student financial aid, and at the same time cut the banks completely out of the process, thus us creating greater accountability. http://bit.ly/gYWd30 http://bit.ly/e9c7Dr http://bit.ly/eEzTNq

Reformed student loan program, to make it possible for students to refinance at a lower rate. http://nyti.ms/dMvHOt

Created a rating system for colleges, so that those applying for student financial aid know better what they’re paying for. http://bit.ly/14Dn7UL

An Adult View on Science, Technology and Health Care

Created a Presidential Memorandum to restore scientific integrity in government decision-making. http://1.usa.gov/g2SDuw

Opened up process for fast-tracking patent approval for green energy projects. http://bit.ly/j0KV2U

Eliminated Bush-era restrictions on embryonic stem cell research, and provided increased federal support for biomedical and stem cell research. http://bit.ly/h36SSOhttp://ti.me/edezge

Through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, committed more federal funding, about $18 billion, to support non-defense science and research labs. http://nyti.ms/fTs9t7

Signed Democratic-sponsored Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act, the first comprehensive attempt to improve the lives of Americans living with paralysis. http://bit.ly/fOi2rb

Expanded the Nurse-Family Partnership program, which provides home visits by trained registered nurses to low-income expectant mothers and their families, to cover more first-time mothers.http://bit.ly/jRRRJc

Obama EPA reversed research ethics standards which allowed humans to be used as “guinea pigs” in tests of the effects of chemicals, to comply with numerous codes of medical ethics. http://bit.ly/bKgqdS

Conducted a cyberspace policy review. http://1.usa.gov/gmbdvC

Provided financial support for private sector space programs. http://bit.ly/fn8ucr

Oversaw enhanced earth mapping, to provide valuable data for agricultural, educational, scientific, and government use. http://bit.ly/dNTRyP

Along with Democrats in Congress, ushered through and signed a bill authorizing FDA to regulate tobacco. http://on.msnbc.com/fiKViB As a result, the FDA has Ordered Tobacco Companies to Disclose Cigarette Ingredients and banned sale of cigarettes falsely labeled as “light.”

Through American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, provided $500 million for Health Professions Training Programs. http://bit.ly/ecQSgA

Increased funding for community-based prevention programs. http://bit.ly/frMPG3

Oversaw a 50% decrease in cost of prescription drugs for seniors. http://bit.ly/e5b1iqhttp://1.usa.gov/fVNkt9

Eliminated the Bush-era practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug companies on price. http://bit.ly/fOkG5b

Two weeks after taking office, signed Democratic-sponsored Children’s Health Insurance Reauthorization Act, which increased the number of children covered by health insurance by 4 million. http://bit.ly/fDEzGv

Urged Congress to investigate Anthem Blue Cross for raising premiums 39% without explanation. Democratic Rep. Waxman responded by launching a probe, and Anthem Blue Cross put increase on hold for two months. http://yhoo.it/e8Tj9C

Ushered through and signed Affordable Care Act, which expanded health insurance coverage to at least 30 million more people, ended many common insurance company practices that are often detrimental to those with coverage. He also established healthcare.gov, so that taxpayers could keep up with developments. http://www.healthcare.gov/

Through ACA, allowed children to be covered under their parents’ policy until they turned 26. http://nyti.ms/fNB26V

Through the ACA, provided tax breaks to allow 3.5 million small business to provide health insurance to their employees, and 29 million people will receive tax breaks to help them afford health insurance. http://nyti.ms/fNB26V

Through the ACA, expanded Medicaid to those making up to 133% of the federal poverty level. http://nyti.ms/ekMWpo

Through the ACA, health insurance companies now have to disclose how much of your premium actually goes to pay for patient care. http://nyti.ms/fNB26V

Provisions in the ACA have already resulted in Medicare costs actually declining slightly this fiscal year, for the first time in many years, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The increase in 2011 was 4%, which is very low compared to the average 12% annual inflation rate during previous 40 years. http://1.usa.gov/oMxpTh

Since passage of the ACA, health care inflation is at its lowest level since 1960. http://1.usa.gov/1vXR0Ld

Created the HIV Care Continuum Initiative, to strengthen the government’s ability to respond to the continuing domestic HIV epidemic, after years of Republicans weakening the government’s ability to deal with the crisis. http://1.usa.gov/1iLED0t

Expanded space exploration and discovery options to include more players. http://1.usa.gov/13qmZpm

Through the Connect America Fund, pushed through and received FCC approval for a move of $8 billion in subsidies away from telephone landlines to assist lower-income rural families in accessing broadband. http://lat.ms/vhRUEs http://bit.ly/129V3SY

In the wake of the West Fertilizer tragedy, in which an entire small town was devastated by an explosion at a fertilizer plant, in part because Republican negligence let the company do whatever it wanted, formed the Chemical Safety and Security Working Group, to work on measures to prevent another such event. http://1.usa.gov/18kHSlA

By 2014, the Affordable Care Act dropped the number of uninsured Americans by 22.3%, which amounts to more than 10.3 million people with insurance who didn’t have it before. Only 13.9% of Americans are uninsured, a drop from 18.9% in 2013. http://on.msnbc.com/1r4kjGn

The Affordable Care Act has increased the life expectancy of Medicare greatly. http://on.wsj.com/1yuNco6

Established a Cyber Threat Intelligence Integration Center, a recommendation made by the 9/11 Commission, to coordinate efforts to fight cyber-crime and terrorism. http://1.usa.gov/1A0aEoS

The Obama FCC, with his leadership, adopted strong net neutrality rules, to keep the Internet open and equal for everyone. http://fcc.us/1MhTlIA

Signed bill that will provide health insurance premium support to workers who lose their health insurance due to foreign competition. http://bit.ly/1evvVDF

In response to the confusion triggered by the asinine Hobby Lobby decision, which essentially declared that corporations could have “religious rights” and lord them over employees, created new rules to give all women with insurance the right to free birth control. http://on.wsj.com/1O44a1t

Implemented the National HIV/AIDS Strategy for 2015-2020, which is a follow-up to the first such strategy in US history, which he implemented in 2010. http://1.usa.gov/1IXknHm

Set up a National Strategic Computing Initiative, to “maximize benefits of high-performance computing (HPC) research, development, and deployment.” http://1.usa.gov/1IN3FZa

Strengthened the Middle Class and Families, and Fought Poverty

Worked to provide affordable, high-quality child care to working families. http://bit.ly/fNfidS

Cracked down on companies that were previously denying sick pay, vacation and health insurance, and Social Security and Medicare tax payments through abuse of the employee classification of independent contractor. http://nyti.ms/fOGLcj

Through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, cut taxes for 95% of America’s working families. http://bit.ly/eSEI4F

Tax rates for average working families are the lowest since 1950. http://bit.ly/f74pD8

Extended and fully funded the patch for the Alternative Minimum Tax for 10 years. http://bit.ly/eFeSdP

Extended discounted health coverage under the COBRA health insurance law for the unemployed from 9 months to 15 months, and he’s also extended unemployment benefits more than a few times. http://aol.it/evtVxDhttp://nyti.ms/emrqKJ http://bit.ly/hOtIpg http://bit.ly/fTT7kz

Provided a $20 billion increase for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (Food Stamps). http://nyti.ms/gfLqyM

Signed an Executive Order that established the White House Office of Urban Affairs. http://wapo.st/eWECA8

Included the Buffet Rule in his 2014 budget proposal, thus trying to fulfill a campaign promise, to make sure tax rates are fair between the rich and the middle class. http://1.usa.gov/19PkdQo

Used the fiscal cliff negotiations to extend for five additional years the American Opportunity Tax Credit, which provides tax credits to families for college-related expenses, thus saving those families up to $10,000. http://onforb.es/17zYg3u

Increased protections for those who are unemployed and are seeking a government job. http://1.usa.gov/1jgXATu

Updated and modernized overtime regulations under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) http://1.usa.gov/1iGDO8e

With First Lady Michelle Obama, passed the Healthy Hunger-Free Kids Act, which will improve nutrition in schools and make children healthier. http://1.usa.gov/GAXkSk

In his continuing effort to make college more affordable and accountable, will begin rating colleges with regard to affordability and value. http://bit.ly/14Dn7UL

Initiated a reform of federal job training programs, to make them more relevant to the current economy and the job market. http://1.usa.gov/1kZLQHG

Under Obama, the bottom 95% of taxpayers are paying lower federal income taxes than at any time in the last 50 years, including under Reagan, Bush 41 and Bush 43. http://bit.ly/1w1W8Ns

Signed a presidential memorandum authorizing six weeks paid leave for all federal employees with a new baby, and encouraged Congress to do the same for all workers. http://bit.ly/18613XA

2014 marked the first time since 1984 that unemployment dropped in all 50 states and the District of Columbia. 1.usa.gov/1E25u0C

Took steps to improve workplace safety by creating an Advisory Board to study workers’ exposure to toxic substances. http://1.usa.gov/1M4s8IG

Changed overtime rules to make it far more difficult for employers to avoid paying overtime to workers. http://politi.co/1KHfiBe

Changed rules for federal contractors, guaranteeing that all workers earn paid leave; this should affect about 300,000 workers. http://1.usa.gov/1LcHZWl[/quote]
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:52am PT
[quote]Concrete Steps to Improve the Environment and Address Our Energy Needs

Doubling federal spending on clean energy research. http://bit.ly/iN0sCE

Pushed through a tax credit to help people buy plug-in hybrid cars. http://bit.ly/j8UP5Y

Created a program to develop renewable energy projects on the waters of our Outer Continental Shelf that will produce electricity from wind, wave, and ocean currents. http://1.usa.gov/fgfRWq

Reengaged in the climate change and greenhouse gas emissions agreements talks, and proposed one himself. He also addressed the U.N. Climate Change Conference, officially reversing the Bush era stance that climate change was a “hoax.” http://bit.ly/dX6Vj3 http://bit.ly/fE2PxKhttp://nyti.ms/hfeqvv

Fully supported the initial phase of the creation of a legally-binding treaty to reduce mercury emissions worldwide. http://bit.ly/eJ6QOO

Required states to provide incentives to utilities to reduce their energy consumption. http://bit.ly/lBhk7P

Under Obama, our dependence on foreign oil has dropped to its lowest rate since 1985, and continues to drop. http://1.usa.gov/1p6kTUy Meanwhile, consumption is way down because of reduced driving and higher mileage standards. http://ti.me/1z4HFG8

Improved siting, review and permitting stations for power plants, in an attempt to seriously improve the nation’s electric grid. http://1.usa.gov/1l8zNqn

Following the neglect of Bush’s eight year reign, he reengaged in a number of treaties and agreements designed to protect the Antarctic. http://bit.ly/fzQUFO

Created tax write-offs for purchases of hybrid automobiles, and later he and Democrats morphed that program into one that includes electric cars. http://bit.ly/glCukV

Established a quadrennial review of our energy infrastructure, to encourage a modernization of the grid, and to encourage the transition away from fossil fuel use. http://1.usa.gov/1nx2oMo

Mandated that federal government fleet purchases be for fuel-efficient American vehicles, and encouraged that federal agencies support experimental, fuel-efficient vehicles. http://bit.ly/h5KZqyhttp://1.usa.gov/fLWq5chttp://1.usa.gov/hmUSbk

Got BP to cough up $20 billion to establish Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund, to reduce the need for taxpayer funds to be used for compensation and clean up. http://wapo.st/ds2BxT (Note: it took 20 years to get $1.3 billion for the Exxon Valdez spill. )

Oversaw and pushed through an amendment to the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 authorizing advances from Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund for the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. http://1.usa.gov/yTRYVo

Actively tried to amend the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 to eliminate the liability limits for those companies responsible for large oil spills. http://nyti.ms/bxjDi3

Became the first President to simply say “Climate Change is a fact,” and set up the first federal government protocols for dealing with the impacts of climate change. http://1.usa.gov/1b7V67B

Initiated Criminal and Civil inquiries into the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. http://nyti.ms/bVuB7a

Asserted federal legal supremacy to bar Texas from authorizing new refinery permits on its own.http://bit.ly/ww8eMd

Set up new, stricter standards limiting power plant emissions. http://1.usa.gov/1mML2M3

Strengthened the Endangered Species Act. http://bit.ly/hscjsH

Strengthened protection for wildlife, and expanded enforcement of laws against wildlife trafficking. http://1.usa.gov/1fce1Ai

Obama EPA improved boiler safety standards to improve air quality, and save 6500 lives per year. http://bit.ly/jYH7nt

Through the EPA, attemped to take steps to severely limit the use of antibiotics in livestock feed, to increase their efficacy in humans. http://bit.ly/fBuWd2

Through new EPA regulations, he created a pretext for closing the dirtiest power plants in the country, by limiting emissions of mercury and other toxic gasses. http://bit.ly/rQCIgA

Increased funding for National Parks and Forests by 10% http://bit.ly/fbJPjY

Announced greatly improved commercial fuel efficiency standards. http://1.usa.gov/oQiC1K

Announced a huge increase in average fuel economy standards from 27.5mpg in 2010 to 35.5mpg starting in 2016 and 54.5 starting in 2025 http://1.usa.gov/qtghsW

Issued an Executive Order to facilitate investments in industrial energy efficiency that will help create jobs, while strengthening US manufacturing. Increased efficiency could save businesses $100 billion over the next decade. http://1.usa.gov/WsIgbx

Through an executive order, set up the Gulf Coast Ecosystem Restoration Council, which will to oversee Gulf Coast restoration efforts in the wake of the 2010 BP oil splll. The money to fund the restoration efforts comes from fines against BP. http://1.usa.gov/Rxjb29

Through executive actions and bypassing the ineffectual Republican Congress, announced the most comprehensive plan to combat climate change in a generation. http://bit.ly/13lXhET

Ordered energy plants to prepare to produce at least 15% of all energy through renewable resources like wind and solar, by 2021. http://reut.rs/fV155p (Republicans are trying hard to kill it.)

Oversaw the creation of an initiative that converts old factories and manufacturing centers into new clean technology centers. http://bit.ly/mjnq2R[/quote]
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:54am PT
[quote]guided the country into a 418% increase in solar power capacity between 2010 and 2014. http://bit.ly/1rHkWJC

Bypassed Republican opposition in Congress and ordered EPA to begin regulating and measuring carbon emissions. http://bit.ly/froaP5

Oversaw a tripling in the use of wind power to generate electricity. For the third year in row, the United States led the world in increased wind power capacity. http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5448

Ordered the federal government to incorporate climate resilience and climate science into all international development in which the United States engages. http://1.usa.gov/YV1EpW

Fast-tracked regulations to allow states to enact fuel efficiency standards that exceeded federal standards. http://nyti.ms/e8e94x

Fast-tracked increased fuel economy standards for vehicles beginning with the 2011 model year. It was the first time such standards had been increased in a decade. http://politi.co/hiaPKM

Oversaw establishment of an Energy Partnership for the Americas, to create more markets for American-made biofuels and green energy technologies. http://bit.ly/lZp73y

Obama EPA reversed a Bush-era decision to allow the largest mountaintop removal project in US history. http://bit.ly/lP3yEL

Ordered the Department of Energy to implement more aggressive efficiency standards for common household appliances. http://1.usa.gov/g3MTbu

Obama EPA ruled that excess CO2 is a pollutant. http://bit.ly/iQTSNN

Closed a deal with China to limit carbon emissions to perhaps slow down climate change. http://nyti.ms/1xzyS8K

Blocked all oil and gas drilling in Bristol Bay, Alaska, one of the most pristine environments in North America http://lat.ms/13xUVFD

Signed an Executive Order to improve environmental efforts in the Arctic region and to combat climate change by better coordinating the efforts of the 23 federal agencies operating in the area. http://usat.ly/ZEzLzE

Vetoed a bill to fast track construction of the parallel Keystone XL pipeline. http://nbcnews.to/1DVDFo7

Expanded clean water regulations to more stringently protect all of the nation’s waterways, even when states fail in their duty. http://bit.ly/1RdQpTc

Signed an Executive Order committing the federal government to lead the way in building a sustainable economy. It’s his fifth doing just that. http://1.usa.gov/1EzO2ne

Banned the use of antibiotics in food served in US Government-run cafeterias and ordered agencies to only use antibiotic-free meat. http://bit.ly/1G1vUxi http://bit.ly/1KHkl4N

Developed new rules to address climate change and to create a significant boost to clean energy. http://bit.ly/1UnQcuR

But That’s Not All…

Nominated Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court. Sotomayor is the first Hispanic Justice in the court’s history, and the women represent only the third and fourth women to serve on the court, out of a total of 112 justices. http://huff.to/eOChg6http://bit.ly/i02wgP

Appointed the most diverse Cabinet in history, including more women than any other incoming president. http://bit.ly/dX6vNB

Eliminated federal funding for abstinence-only education, and rescinded the global gag rule. http://bit.ly/eCFAI1 http://bit.ly/f92drF

Loosened the rules and allowed the 14 states that legalized medical marijuana to regulate themselves without federal interference. http://huff.to/eQfa7j

Signed national service legislation, increasing funding for national service groups, including triple the size of the Americorps program. http://bit.ly/idgQH5

Signed an Executive Order that will speed up deployment of a more comprehensive broadband infrastructure. http://1.usa.gov/M7rVpe

Signed an Executive Order creating jobs immediately by instructing them to reduce the time needed for review and permitting of infrastructure projects. http://1.usa.gov/GHxaYt

Signed a bill that provided $4.3 billion in additional assistance to 9/11 first responders. http://bit.ly/o7cWYS

Signed an Executive Order pledging support for efforts to end the global problem of violence against women and girls. http://1.usa.gov/MHTRVU

Signed the Claims Resolution Act, which provided $4.6 billion in funding for a legal settlement with black and Native American farmers who had been cheated out of government loans and natural resource royalties in the past. http://1.usa.gov/dGppUa

To help those communities devastated by Hurricane Sandy, issued an executive order setting up the Hurricane Sandy Rebuilding Task Force, and asked Congress to approve $60 billion in supplemental assistance to aid in storm recovery. http://1.usa.gov/134L7hl

Produced 23 Executive actions designed to make it easier for law enforcement to identify those who shouldn’t have guns, thus helping them enforce the law. http://on.wsj.com/SX9xaZ

Expanded trade agreements to include stricter labor and environmental agreements such as NAFTA. http://bit.ly/etznpY

Oversaw funding of the design of a new Smithsonian National Museum of African American History, which is scheduled to open on the National Mall in 2015. He protected the funding during the recent budget negotiations. http://on.fb.me/fD0EVO http://bit.ly/ff5Luv

Oversaw and passed increased funding for the National Endowment for the Arts.http://bit.ly/dFb8qF[/quote]
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:54am PT
Despite the characterizations of some, Obama’s success rate in winning congressional votes on issues was an unprecedented 96.7% for his first year in office.

Though he is often cited as superior to Obama, President Lyndon Johnson’s success rate in 1965 was only 93%. http://n.pr/i3d7cY
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:55am PT
So, John E, if we use, as you suggest, outcomes, then the disinterested observer would think that President Obama has been one of the most effective in US history.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:57am PT
Ken, again, in his first year in office, he had a filibuster-proof majority of the Senate and a majority in the house. All he has to show for it is the increasingly-unpopular Obamacare and the worse-than-useless Dodd-Frank. Show me an ability to negotiate succesfully with opponents. Despite your pro-Obama propaganda listings, I await a genuine negltiated accomplishment.

John
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 10:58am PT
Ken, some of those are imaginary (e.g. "prevented a Bush depression"), others merely unilateral actions (e.g. made executive orders). Which demonstrates an ability to negotiate?

edit: Oh yes, the Iran treaty. Let's see, Iran was already treaty-bound not to pursue or obtain nuclear weapons, ever. He negotiated an agreement so they are free to do what they want in a decade or so, and they will police themselves in the meantime.

I'm sure Vladimir was deeply impressed.

John

John, it was YOU, not me, that stated that one should go by OUTCOMES. Are you now stating that outcomes should not be used, but rather, some other metric for negotiation that you can't seem to define???
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 5, 2015 - 11:12am PT
Ken, I asked for outcomes of negotiations, and I got a list of outcomes of unilateral actions, given with a lens of naive optimism that each of the purported outcomes was or will be positive, and caused by the President's actions.

Rational people will disagree over whether each or any of those outcomes was positive, but that's not what I'm debating. I'm asking which were the products of negotiations with adverse parties. The only one I've seen, namely the Iranian nuclear arms treaty, was a perfect example of a terrible outcome. We gave up something and received nothing. Neville Chamberlain did no worse in Munich.

take your time responding. I just got a paying project

John
dirtbag

climber
Nov 5, 2015 - 11:17am PT
For the first few years, when he was under the delusion that the republicans were at least somewhat reasonable, the president had an annoying habit of preemptively offering them what he thought they might want, only to be told FU in the end. He was not a very good negotiator then, but he has improved.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Nov 5, 2015 - 11:20am PT
Ken, again, in his first year in office, he had a filibuster-proof majority of the Senate and a majority in the house

WRONG
it was 24 working days
as I told you 1000 times before


The Myth of the Filibuster-Proof Democratic Senate

http://sandiegofreepress.org/2012/09/the-myth-of-the-filibuster-proof-democratic-senate/



Sep 11, 2012 - and the Democrats had a filibuster-proof majority for just over five months or 11 weeks or 72 days or 24 working days, but no matter how you ...

But some people just don't want to accept the facts

And what has the Republican Majority done for the American Economy?
Nothing but complain about the Dems and Obama

They have the check book and the power to change, why won't they John?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 5, 2015 - 11:24am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

Nov 5, 2015 - 11:20am PT
Ken, again, in his first year in office, he had a filibuster-proof majority of the Senate and a majority in the house

WRONG
it was 24 working days
as I told you 1000 times before

John's statement is still true.
Norton

Social climber
Nov 5, 2015 - 11:28am PT
Ken and John,

truth, facts do not matter

what matters is never, ever, admitting you are wrong

two plus two IS five

is that a difference of opinion?

yes I suppose so

John M

climber
Nov 5, 2015 - 11:28am PT
I would say Dirtbag nails it. Not that this means I believe Obama is some great negotiator. I don't. but he is better because he got over his illusion that the repubs would work with him.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 5, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
For the first few years, when he was under the delusion that the republicans were at least somewhat reasonable, the president had an annoying habit of preemptively offering them what he thought they might want, only to be told FU in the end.

Riiiight.

He stiffed the Republicans on 2006 Stimulus Package.

Obamacare was somewhat bipartisan, in committee. But then the Dems added the individual mandate, which was a deal breaker with the Republicans.

He set the tone early.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 12:14pm PT
The only one I've seen, namely the Iranian nuclear arms treaty, was a perfect example of a terrible outcome. We gave up something and received nothing. Neville Chamberlain did no worse in Munich.

What BS.

The whole rationale for the sanctions--------FORCE them to the negotiating table.

When that happened, the Repubs went loony! NO WAY! WERE GIVNG IN!
BEFORE they saw the agreement, they lambasted it as a terrible agreement.
BEFORE.
It didn't matter what the agreement said, it was Obama's agreement, therefore it could not be anything but terrible.

We got NOTHING???? How about we got a nuclear-weapon free Iran for at least 15 years.
WHAT THE F*** were you looking to get, John????

What did you want to negotiate FOR??

I won't say that John believes this (because I don't know), but I think the Repug position is to use the sanctions as an act of VENGENCE for throwing us out and having the uppityness to throw out the Shah. When we applied the sanctions, nukes were not the issue.

To see how this plays out, see CUBA. No nukes in sight. All we are doing is punishing the Cubans for choosing a different gov't style than the one we like.

Gosh, we sure got over Viet Nam.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 5, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
Obamacare was somewhat bipartisan, in committee. But then the Dems added the individual mandate, which was a deal breaker with the Republicans.

Nope. It was part of the original plan, as created by Republicans. If you don't think so, go to Mass, where they enacted it 8 years before----including the individual mandate, as originally laid out by the Heritage Foundation, and adopted by Romney.

The Repubs attempted to scuttle the whole thing, as they understood the possibility of it getting passed, but the Dems getting credit (just as happened). So at that point, they tried to change it into something that would not work.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 5, 2015 - 06:03pm PT
Nope. It was part of the original plan, as created by Republicans. If you don't think so, go to Mass, where they enacted it 8 years before----including the individual mandate, as originally laid out by the Heritage Foundation, and adopted by Romney.

I guess I should've clarified I was referring to the Republican members of the United States Senate.

Kind of thought it obvious.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Nov 5, 2015 - 06:17pm PT
We gave up something and received nothing

False. You are trying to argue that doing nothing (the Republican plan) would have a positive outcome. Our hands are not tied, we bought time and the outcome is still very much open. You are jumping to conclusions.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:06am PT
Where do Republicans get that special talent for turning gold to dross? They score an electoral “massacre” (the Economist) in 2014 and, a year later, what do they have to show for it other than another threat to shut down the government? Hillary Clinton is caught in e-mail flagrante and Benghazi mendacity and yet, with one Kevin McCarthy gaffe and a singularly ineffective 11-hour Benghazi hearing, Republicans render her sanitized.

And now their latest feat. They win a stunning victory over their perennial nemesis, the mainstream media — a slam-dunk rim-rattling exposure of the media bias they have been complaining about for a half-century — and within a week they so overplayed their hand as to dissipate whatever sympathetic advantage they gained.

The CNBC debate was a gift for the GOP, so unadorned a demonstration of liberal condescension, hostility and arrogance that the rest of the media — their ideological cover exposed — were forced to denounce and ridicule their ham-handed colleagues. What happened then? Instead of quitting while they were ahead, the Republicans plunged into a week of meetings and statements, whining and complaining, bouncing around a series of demands, including control of the kind of questions that may or may not be asked at future debates.

Who’s the genius who thought up that one? First, it instantly allowed the liberal media to turn the tables and play defenders of journalistic independence against GOP bullies.

Second, it made the Republicans look small. To paraphrase Chris Christie’s “fantasy football” moment, the economy is in the tank, Russia is on the move, the Islamic State is on the attack — and the candidates are debating the proper room temperature for a debate forum?


Republican presidential candidates sparred over experience, took jabs at their Democratic opponents and even shared a few laughs during CNBC's main debate in Boulder, Colo., on Oct. 28. (Sarah Parnass/The Washington Post)

Third, this continues the season-long GOP diversion from what should be its real target — the wreckage wrought by seven years of Barack Obama. The greatest irony of this campaign is that Clinton and Bernie Sanders are the ones making the case that the economy is stagnant, inequality growing and the middle class falling increasingly behind. That’s a devastating indictment of Democratic governance, exactly the case Republicans should have been making all year. Instead, they’ve wasted months trading schoolboy taunts and ad hominems.

Now another distraction: debate structure. The party is demanding there be no repetition of the CNBC debate. Why, for God’s sake? That debate was the best thing to happen to the GOP since Michael Dukakis.

Won’t someone tell the Republicans that they won? Let it go. Who cares who’s on the next debate panel? Don’t they realize that fear of ridicule alone will temper the instincts of whatever liberal questioners are chosen?

John Harwood’s obnoxiousness and Becky Quick’s incompetence earned most of the opprobrium heaped on the moderators’ performance. But it was Carl Quintanilla who demonstrated just how unmoored liberal delusions about conservatives have become. He asked Ben Carson how, as an opponent of same-sex marriage, he could remain on the board of a company that is known for its generous treatment of gay employees. Quintanilla seemed genuinely unable to fathom that one can oppose the most radical change in the structure of marriage in human history — as Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama all did just a few years ago — without wanting to see gay people persecuted and denied decent treatment by their employers.

CNBC produced the best night of the entire campaign season for the GOP. And yet some Republicans were determined to turn it into another theater of their civil war against the GOP “establishment.” This time the target was Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus. As if Priebus is responsible for Harwood.

Good grief. Priebus’ job, the party’s job, is to control the number of debates and set the calendar. Its doing so in 2015-16 constitutes a significant achievement, considering the damage done to the GOP in 2011-2012 by its 20 freelance debates. That endless, vicious intramural fight — featuring Rick Perry and Newt Gingrich savaging Mitt Romney’s “vulture capitalism” — laid the premise for Obama’s negative and winning campaign.

Ted Cruz has suggested that Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Mark Levin moderate Republican debates. Good idea, wrong target. How about this arrangement? Limbaugh & Co. should moderate the Democratic debates. What a splendid blood-soaked spectacle that would be.

As for the GOP? Bring on the liberals. The Republicans should demand the return of Harwood, Quick and Quintanilla, until the end of time.

Read more from Charles Krauthammer’s archive, follow him on Twitter or subscribe to his updates on Facebook.



EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:14am PT
It's time to stick a fork in Dr. Carson's campaign.

dirtbag

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:18am PT
Yep. It's looking like he made up much of his life story, including--this just in--his admission to West Point.

A number of evangelicals belonging to the Hillary-Is-a-Damned-Liar crowd support Carson. Now what? Lol.
John M

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:18am PT
He is getting pretty weird. I wonder if he has always been like this.



Man.. the people in power are just getting stranger and stranger. I wonder whats next.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:22am PT
John posted

Ken, again, in his first year in office, he had a filibuster-proof majority of the Senate and a majority in the house. All he has to show for it is the increasingly-unpopular Obamacare and the worse-than-useless Dodd-Frank. Show me an ability to negotiate succesfully with opponents. Despite your pro-Obama propaganda listings, I await a genuine negltiated accomplishment.

You guys are gettin' trooooooooolled.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:43am PT
Quote Man.. the people in power are just getting stranger and stranger. I wonder whats next.Here

These people only have power if you let them. There has to be a consensus; elections are one way. Obvious I know, but the whole point to to NOT let people like Ben Carson have the power. In a way, I am thankful the election cycle is as long as it is now. Gives people more time to show their true selves.
John M

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:47am PT
I realize that.. Its just weird to me how we keep letting these nut jobs in. Plus I believe that there is behind the scenes power that controls who gets heard, so its not just up to the people. Ben Carson was put forward to counter Obama, even though he can't run again. Plus to help make the Repubs look more diverse.

Then he pretends to be more black then Obama by saying I was a bad boy when I was young.. then it turns out he wasn't.. And now this.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 10:52am PT
The opening sentence on the West Point story in slate.com is hilarious:

The good news for Ben Carson is that there’s finally some breaking news to distract the media’s focus away from his peculiar theories about the pyramids of Giza and the damaging allegations that he didn’t try to murder a child. The bad news is that it’s only because the media has dug up a separate, seriously damaging fabrication from Carson’s past: that he was neither accepted nor offered a scholarship to West Point, as he’s claimed.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 6, 2015 - 11:26am PT
I realize that.. Its just weird to me how we keep letting these nut jobs in. Plus I believe that there is behind the scenes power that controls who gets heard, so its not just up to the people. Ben Carson was put forward to counter Obama, even though he can't run again. Plus to help make the Repubs look more diverse.

I agree, at least somewhat. The press does what it always has done in the U.S. - entertain. I could make a plausible argument that Hearst was responsible for starting the Spanish-American War to increase newspaper sales. The current reporting, largely devoid of serious policy-implicating discussion, is just more of the same.

At least they got enough bad news out of Carson before any of the primaries. While I generally like his policy pronouncements, I'm glad the bad news came out now, not later. I and others could have made a terrible mistake. So on this, for once, kudos to the press.

John
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 6, 2015 - 12:52pm PT
John, I guess it is good that you understand the difference between "pronouncements" and "plans".

Carson has grand pronouncements, with no plans of how to possibly accomplish them.

Pronouncement: I believe in an America in which NO ONE pays taxes!
Plan: "DUH???" I have to do that, TOO??


You guys better get ready for Trump, because Carson just destroyed himself with the "Stolen Valor" military business. The other stuff, just an interesting quirk.

But isn't it disturbing that the FRONT RUNNER for the GOP faked his military credentials (such as they were)

And you can bet this did not come from the Dems, it came from the Repubs. (The media only reported it)
Norton

Social climber
Nov 6, 2015 - 01:06pm PT

well

iis it now time to finally call Gentle Ben a "liar"

multiple statements proven either flat unverifiable or factually wrong = lies

or does he get a pass because he is a gentle and gifted surgeon?

but isn't everyone a "liar"?

who can say they never ever said something they knew was not true?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Nov 16, 2015 - 08:05am PT
Remember, I was the one who said attack the oil (ISIS source of wealth) a long time ago. Everyone scoffed, now they're attacking the oil.

Donald Trump
dirtbag

climber
Nov 16, 2015 - 10:39am PT
Politically, I think Trump might benefit. His draconian immigration proposals probably resonate more after the attacks.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 16, 2015 - 10:47am PT
I don't think any of the republican candidates outside long shots Kasich (18 years on the house armed services committee) or Graham can claim much foreign expertise.
flatlandermcjack

Ice climber
South Dakota
Nov 16, 2015 - 10:54am PT
no but Ted Cruz would be awesome. Donald is way better than Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriend's wife.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Nov 16, 2015 - 11:00am PT
Dirt, it would be nice if we kept nuclear weapons out of the hands of lunatics - like Trump, Carson or Cruz.
Norton

Social climber
Nov 16, 2015 - 11:00am PT

yep

I would take the American Taliban over the democrat Clinton any day too...
dirtbag

climber
Nov 16, 2015 - 11:02am PT
I hadn't really thought of it that way, crankster, but that is a frightening thought.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Nov 18, 2015 - 08:10am PT
I, along with almost everyone else, have so little confidence in President Obama. He has a horrible attitude-a man who is resigned to defeat.

Donald trump!
dirtbag

climber
Nov 18, 2015 - 08:40am PT
Trump is a big liar about the "threat" posed by refugees.

His xenophobic/racist base unquestioningly gobbles it up, though.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 18, 2015 - 08:46am PT
Dirt, it would be nice if we kept nuclear weapons out of the hands of lunatics - like Trump, Carson or Cruz.

Crank, FYI it takes two US Air Force or Navy officers to launch, not one politard.
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Nov 18, 2015 - 09:16am PT
Crank, FYI it takes two US Air Force or Navy officers to launch, not one politard.

POE
dirtbag

climber
Nov 18, 2015 - 03:43pm PT
Donald leads Marco 36% to 18%...in Florida!


http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/fla-poll-trump-36-rubio-18-carson-15-cruz-10-bush-9/2254421
Norton

Social climber
Nov 18, 2015 - 03:47pm PT
It would be wonderful if Donald were the republican nominee
dirtbag

climber
Nov 18, 2015 - 03:55pm PT
My money is still on Marco but I am really starting to believe it could happen.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Nov 23, 2015 - 11:19am PT
Donald spoke the truth.. CNN can suck it..



https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/18/northern-new-jersey-draws-probers-eyes/40f82ea4-e015-4d6e-a87e-93aa433fafdc/?postshare=7281448290025183&tid=ss_fb


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Nov 23, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
Trump says he will water board people or do any advanced interrogation technique.

I guess he doesn't know International and American law very well

Because if you do water board anyone, you will be a war criminal and be prosecuted as such.

Didn't we hang the Japanese that water boarded our POWs
yes we did.

I'm sure he got a lot of applause to the mention of water boarding, all the Fascists love to do it, it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Nov 23, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
Crankloon care to elaborate!!!
Pyromaniac, so you agree with Trump that thousands of people in NJ were cheering the falling of the towers on 9/11? He said it was widely reported. Did you see it??



crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Nov 23, 2015 - 02:07pm PT
Pyromaniac, show me the videos seen by a Trump and Carson showing "thousands and thousands" of Muslims cheering.

Don't bother, fool. You can't.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Nov 23, 2015 - 02:10pm PT
Don't bother, fool. You can't.

lol! you responded to Crankloon Werner has u owned..
philo

climber
Nov 23, 2015 - 02:11pm PT
There were not "thousands" celebrating.

The police did arrest 5 middle eastern men seen celebrating the tower collapses. They were released however when it was discovered they were Moussad under cover agents celebrating the tower collapses.



Home : WRH Store : WRH Index : Reader Letters : Archives : Advertise : Donate
On the day of the 9-11 attacks, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked what the attacks would mean for US-Israeli relations. His quick reply was: "It's very good…….Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy (for Israel)"

The Five Dancing Israelis
Arrested On 9-11





As the world watched in disbelief and asked the question...
Click for full size image

...Mossad operatives were seen dancing with joy.




A Mossad surveillance team made quite a public spectacle of themselves on 9-11.

The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards. (1)
Police received several calls from angry New Jersey residents claiming "middle-eastern" men with a white van were videotaping the disaster with shouts of joy and mockery. (2)

"They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me" said a witness. (3)

[T]hey were seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. (4)
Witnesses saw them jumping for joy in Liberty State Park after the initial impact (5). Later on, other witnesses saw them celebrating on a roof in Weehawken, and still more witnesses later saw them celebrating with high fives in a Jersey City parking lot. (6)

"It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park." (7)
One anonymous phone call to the authorities actually led them to close down all of New York's bridges and tunnels. The mystery caller told the 9-1-1 dispatcher that a group of Palestinians were mixing a bomb inside of a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel. Here's the transcript from NBC News:

Dispatcher: Jersey City police.
Caller: Yes, we have a white van, 2 or 3 guys in there, they look like Palestinians and going around a building.
Caller: There's a minivan heading toward the Holland tunnel, I see the guy by Newark Airport mixing some junk and he has those sheikh uniform.
Dispatcher: He has what?
Caller: He's dressed like an Arab. (8)
(*Writer's note: Why would this mystery caller specifically say that these "Arabs" were Palestinians? How would he know that? Palestinians usually dress in western style clothes, not "sheikh uniforms")


Based on that phone call, police then issued a "Be-on-the-Lookout" alert for a white mini-van heading for the city's bridges and tunnels from New Jersey.

White, 2000 Chevrolet van with 'Urban Moving Systems' sign on back seen at Liberty State Park, Jersey City, NJ, at the time of first impact of jetliner into World Trade Center Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion. FBI Newark Field Office requests that, if the van is located, hold for prints and detain individuals. (9)
When a van fitting that exact description was stopped just before crossing into New York, the suspicious "middle-easterners" were apprehended. Imagine the surprise of the police officers when these terror suspects turned out to be Israelis!
According to ABC’s 20/20, when the van belonging to the cheering Israelis was stopped by the police, the driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers:

"We are Israelis. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are your problem." (10)
Why did he feel Palestinians were a problem for the NYPD?

The police and FBI field agents became very suspicious when they found maps of the city with certain places highlighted, box cutters (the same items that the hijackers supposedly used), $4700 cash stuffed in a sock, and foreign passports. Police also told the Bergen Record that bomb sniffing dogs were brought to the van and that they reacted as if they had smelled explosives. (11)

The FBI seized and developed their photos, one of which shows Sivan Kurzberg flicking a cigarette lighter in front of the smouldering ruins in an apparently celebratory gesture. (12)


Click for full size

The Jerusalem Post later reported that a white van with a bomb was stopped as it approached the George Washington Bridge, but the ethnicity of the suspects was not revealed. Here's what the Jerusalem Post reported on September 12, 2001:

American security services overnight stopped a car bomb on the George Washington Bridge. The van, packed with explosives, was stopped on an approach ramp to the bridge. Authorities suspect the terrorists intended to blow up the main crossing between New Jersey and New York, Army Radio reported. (13)

"...two suspects are in FBI custody after a truckload of explosives was discovered around the George Washington Bridge ... The FBI ... says enough explosives were in the truck to do great damage to the George Washington Bridge."
WMV video download (545kB)

It was reported the van contained tonnes of explosives (14).

What's really intriguing is that ABC's 20/20 (15), the New York Post (16), and the New Jersey Bergen Record (17) all clearly and unambiguously reported that a white van with Israelis was intercepted on a ramp near Route 3, which leads directly to the Lincoln Tunnel.

But the Jerusalem Post, Israeli National News (Arutz Sheva) (18), and Yediot America, (19) all reported, just as clearly and unambiguously, that a white van with Israelis was stopped on a ramp leading to the George Washington Bridge, which is several miles north of the Lincoln Tunnel.

It appears as if there may actually have been two white vans involved, one stopped on each crossing. This would not only explain the conflicting reports as to the actual location of the arrests, but would also explain how so many credible eye-witnesses all saw celebrating "middle-easterners" in a white van in so many different locations. It also explains why the New York Post and Steve Gordon (lawyer for the 5 Israelis) originally described how three Israelis were arrested but later increased the total to five.

Perhaps one van was meant to drop off a bomb while the other was meant to pick up the first set of drivers while re-crossing back into New Jersey? If a van was to be used as a parked time-bomb on the GW Bridge, then certainly the drivers would need to have a "get-away van" to pick them up and escape. And notice how the van (or vans) stayed away from the third major crossing -the Holland Tunnel- which was where the police had originally been directed to by that anti-Palestinian 9-1-1 "mystery caller". A classic misdirection play.

From there, the story gets becomes even more suspicious. The Israelis worked for a Weehawken moving company known as Urban Moving Systems. An American employee of Urban Moving Systems told the The Record of New Jersey that a majority of his co-workers were Israelis and they were joking about the attacks.

The employee, who declined to give his name said: "I was in tears. These guys were joking and that bothered me." These guys were like, "Now America knows what we go through." (20)
A few days after the attacks, Urban Moving System's Israeli owner, Dominick Suter, dropped his business and fled the country for Israel. He was in such a hurry to flee America that some of Urban Moving System's customers were left with their furniture stranded in storage facilities (21).

Suter's departure was abrupt, leaving behind coffee cups, sandwiches, cell phones and computers strewn on office tables and thousands of dollars of goods in storage. Suter was later placed on the same FBI suspect list as 9/11 lead hijacker Mohammed Atta and other hijackers and suspected al-Qaeda sympathizers, suggesting that U.S. authorities felt Suter may have known something about the attacks. (22)
The Jewish weekly The Forward reported that the FBI finally concluded that at least two of the detained Israelis were agents working for the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, and that Urban Moving Systems, the ostensible employer of the five Israelis, was a front operation. This was confirmed by two former CIA officers, and they noted that movers' vans are a common intelligence cover. (23). The Israelis were held in custody for 71 days before being quietly released. (24)

"There was no question but that [the order to close down the investigation] came from the White House. It was immediately assumed at CIA headquarters that this basically was going to be a cover-up so that the Israelis would not be implicated in any way in 9/11." (25)
Several of the detainees discussed their experience in America on an Israeli talk show after their return home. Said one of the men, denying that they were laughing or happy on the morning of Sept. 11, "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." (26)

wmv video download

How did they know there would be an event to document on 9/11?
It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots of the dancing Israeli Mossad agents - here's the most logical scenario:

1. The Israeli "movers" cheered the 9-11 attacks to celebrate the successful accomplishment of the greatest spy operation ever pulled off in history.
2. One of them, or an accomplice, then calls a 9-1-1 police dispatcher to report Palestinian bomb-makers in a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel.

3. Having thus pre-framed the Palestinians with this phone call, the Israeli bombers then head for the George Washington Bridge instead, where they will drop off their time-bomb van and escape with Urban Moving accomplices.

4. But the police react very wisely and proactively by closing off ALL bridges and tunnels instead of just the Holland Tunnel. This move inadvertently foils the Israelis' misdirection play and leads to their own capture and 40 day torture.

5. To cover up this story, the U.S. Justice Department rounds up over 1000 Arabs for minor immigration violations and places them in New York area jails. The Israelis therefore become less conspicuous as the government and media can now claim that the Israelis were just immigration violators caught in the same dragnet as many other Arabs.

6. After several months, FBI and Justice Department "higher-ups" are able to gradually push aside the local FBI agents and free the Israelis quietly.

Osama bin Laden was immediately blamed for the 9/11 attacks even though he had no previous record of doing anything on this scale. Immediately after the Flight 11 hit World Trade Center 1
CIA Director George Tenet said "You know, this has bin Laden's fingerprints all over it." (27)

The compliant mainstream media completely ignored the Israeli connection. Immediately following the 9-11 attacks the media was filled with stories linking the attacks to bin Laden. TV talking-heads, "experts", and scribblers of every stripe spoon-fed a gullible American public a steady diet of the most outrageous propaganda imaginable.

We were told that the reason bin Laden attacked the USA was because he hates our "freedom" and "democracy". The Muslims were "medieval" and they wanted to destroy us because they envied our wealth, were still bitter about the Crusades, and were offended by Britney Spears shaking her tits and ass all over the place!

But bin Laden strongly denied any role in the attacks and suggested that Zionists orchestrated the
9-11 attacks. The BBC published bin Laden's statement of denial in which he said:

"I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States." (28)
You never heard that quote on your nightly newscast did you?

[A] number of intelligence officials have raised questions about Osama bin Laden's capabilities. "This guy sits in a cave in Afghanistan and he's running this operation?" one C.I.A. official asked. "It's so huge. He couldn't have done it alone." A senior military officer told me that because of the visas and other documentation needed to infiltrate team members into the United States a major foreign intelligence service might also have been involved. (29)
Bin Laden is not named as the perpetrator of 9/11 by the FBI:

When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page (30), [Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI] said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.” (31)

"So we've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden [sic] was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming" - Dick Cheney. (32)
To date, the only shred of “evidence” to be uncovered against bin Laden is a barely audible fuzzy amateur video that the Pentagon just happened to find "lying around" in Afghanistan. How very convenient, and how very fake. (33)

There is no evidence, be it hard or circumstantial, to link the Al Qaeda "terrorist network" to these acts of terror, but there is a mountain of evidence, both hard and circumstantial, which suggests that Zionists have been very busy framing Arabs for terror plots against America.

"I think there is very compelling evidence that at least some of the terrorists were assisted not just in financing -- although that was part of it -- by a sovereign foreign government ... It will become public at some point when it's turned over to the archives, but that's 20 or 30 years from now" - Senator Bob Graham. (34)
If the sovereign foreign government mentioned by Senator Graham was an enemy of the United States the "compelling evidence" would not be kept secret for 20+ years.

One final point; at 09:40 on 9-11 it was reported that the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine claimed responsibility for the attacks (35). This claim was immediately denied by the DFLP leader Qais abu Leila who said it had always opposed "terror attacks on civilian targets, especially outside the occupied territories." (36)

Why would a Palestinian organisation comprising of less than 500 people (37) make the suicidal move of immediately claiming responsibility for the attacks?

Sharon and the other Israeli leaders aspire to fulfil what the goals of the political Zionist movement have been since its origin a century ago: to turn all of historic Palestine into an exclusively Jewish state. A central tenet of the Zionist ideology is expressed in the racist slogan, "A land without people for a people without a land." (38)
The implication of Palestinians in the 9/11 attacks would have handed Zionists a golden opportunity to achieve the above because all Palestinians would have been labelled terrorists.

"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."
US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring.

Mossad Logo
"By way of deception, thou shalt do war"
Motto of the Mossad

See also:

Federal Assistance to Recipient URBAN MOVING SYSTEMS INC
2002: Police Seize Rental Truck With TNT Traces Driven By Israelis
Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel
Zionist Circles Benefit From WTC Collapse
Israel and 9/11 - Index of What Really Happened


Email This Page To A Friend
What Really Happened




dirtbag

climber
Dec 3, 2015 - 10:16am PT
Trump to Jewish Republicans:

"Look, we're negotiators."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest.html


Lol.

I wonder if Fatty attended?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 3, 2015 - 11:58am PT
pyro: "a number" is not "thousands." Trump would have us believe the Jersey shore was lined with cheering, dancing Muslims. Literally the whole world was watching Ground 0. If I had a rooftop I'd have been up there with a cooler too. Why are you so eager to defend bigotry?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 3, 2015 - 12:04pm PT
Our best allies in the Middle East danced for joy?

They were arrested as Arabs and released as Mossad agents?

Was it thousands?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 3, 2015 - 01:10pm PT

Hidesert I have friend who's name is "djdream" real good guy
Ur name must be hidesertcatsh#t


edit for norton:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/12/02/trump-100-vindicated-cbs-reports-swarms-on-roofs-celebrating-911/
dirtbag

climber
Dec 3, 2015 - 01:24pm PT
What cbs report, pyro?

Linkie?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 3, 2015 - 03:07pm PT
Released for being Jewish?

not so much New Jersey.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 3, 2015 - 03:11pm PT
Donald Trump touted new evidence to back his disputed 9/11 claim — but the people he cited are pushing back

On Monday, Trump tweeted a link to a years-old video of Curtis Sliwa, an anti-crime activist and local media personality, saying that people had called his show about the supposed Muslim celebrations.

"Good job Curtis," Trump wrote, adding that the media fact-checkers who disputed his claim should send their apologies to his Twitter account.

Sliwa responded by accusing Trump of doctoring the video of him discussing the attack. Sliwa said the full video actually suggested that there weren't "thousands and thousands" of people partying in New Jersey as the towers went down.

"It was just a dozen teenagers," Sliwa told MTV News.

MTV News once did a detailed investigation on the Muslim-celebration rumors and only found evidence of a small number of kids running amok after being let out early from school.

"Quickly the adults came out, they disciplined them, they took them back into their homes," Sliwa said. "There was no repetition, no continuation thereafter."

Sliwa also demanded Trump apologize for taking his comments out of context:

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-curtis-sliwa-cbs-9-11-muslim-celebration-evidence-2015-12
monolith

climber
state of being
Dec 6, 2015 - 09:09am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 7, 2015 - 11:23am PT


Based on these numbers - it is clear the MSM will not be determining the next #POTUS! The silent majority - is no longer silent! Thank you! #Trump2016
Donald Trump
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 7, 2015 - 11:32am PT
pyro insists that MSM doesn't know what it's talking about by using indisputable reporting from MSM.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 7, 2015 - 11:36am PT
how old are you really, Pyro

13?
dirtbag

climber
Dec 7, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
Ready for Teddy?


Cruz trumps Trump in new Iowa poll.


http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/12/07/ted-cruz-tops-donald-trump-in-new-iowa-poll/

Given that Carson had a large lead in October, the take-home is that this race is very volatile.
Gene

climber
Dec 7, 2015 - 02:03pm PT
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/12/07/donald-trump-calls-for-banning-muslims-from-entering-u-s/

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 7, 2015 - 02:33pm PT

am greatly honored by the results of the CNN poll in Iowa. In the end, I believe the final results will be even better than that! In addition, I am especially grateful for the tremendous support I have received from the Evangelicals. Thank you! #MakeAmericaGreatAgain #Trump2016quote



Cruz trumps Trump in new Iowa poll.


?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 7, 2015 - 02:39pm PT
The tea party better start throwing more than tea bags overboard, 'cause their ship is sinking.

dirtbag

climber
Dec 7, 2015 - 02:58pm PT
Pyro, I provided a link to the other Iowa poll.

Cruz is surging.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 7, 2015 - 04:21pm PT
Dirt bag if ya wanna link then give me a call..


I've provided also so ha!
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Dec 7, 2015 - 04:27pm PT
It's happening for sure.

Majority of America wants him over the rest of the puffs.

Hillary has no chance.



dirtbag

climber
Dec 7, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
Pyro, from the article I linked the previous page:

http://www.monmouth.edu/assets/0/32212254770/32212254991/32212254992/32212254994/32212254995/30064771087/de240398-df23-47b6-8470-91977d38b749.pdf
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Dec 7, 2015 - 10:03pm PT
"Liberal failure to take on Islamism from position of moral strength/honesty has enabled Trump to do it from a position of xenophobic bigotry."

Ali A Rizvi, tweet
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 8, 2015 - 01:12am PT
Encouraging infighting among different groups is the most basic tactic of despotism.

When groups focus on destroying themselves, they don't focus on the real problem, which is a beneficiary of the infighting.



The shift of wealth and power from the American people, and into the hands of a very few, should be the real issue, here.


The elitists would prefer that the discussion was about noise and ISIS and anything other than - - - the very few have taken much from the many.




What kind of society do we want?


Free-for-all, Winner-Takes-All, Law-of-the-jungle?


Or Civilization?



People invented civilization so that people wouldn't have to live by the Law Of The Jungle.



crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 8, 2015 - 05:21am PT
When you've got the likes of Dick Cheney on your left you must be really crazy...

Even former Vice President Dick Cheney has denounced Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump's plan to ban Muslim immigration in America.

Cheney, a decisive conservative himself, said on The Hugh Hewitt Show that the ban "goes against everything we stand for and believe in."

"I think this whole notion that somehow we can just say no more Muslims, just ban a whole religion, goes against everything we stand for and believe in. I mean, religious freedom has been a very important part of our history and where we came from," Cheney said on a Monday appearance on the radio show. "A lot of people, my ancestors got here, because they were Puritans.
couchmaster

climber
Dec 8, 2015 - 08:19am PT


Donalds 33% defy's belief to me. It's like I'm on another planet. The mans knee jerks up so hard and so frequently you wonder how his chin can take those off the cuff reactions he so easily spews. And some of them I agree with too. In either case, I have a sizable bet that he is NOT the republican candidate, and seeing him have almost double the nearest repub contender in the polls is making me nervous.


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 8, 2015 - 08:26am PT
So, why do why need any more immigrants of any flavor? Aren't we crowded enough?

High tech firms can't get visas for skilled workers but we need a bunch of welfare cases?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 8, 2015 - 08:36am PT
Thank you. I'm reading the definitive work on the Modocs' problems with illegal immigrants,
Hell With The Fire Out, so I am sensitized to the issue.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 8, 2015 - 08:46am PT
O'Reilly, what native Ameican tribe are you from? Cherokee? Apache?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 8, 2015 - 08:47am PT
Hillary has no chance.

Comedy quote of the day.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 8, 2015 - 08:57am PT
Crankster, Sinn Fein. Be afraid, be verrry afraid.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:04am PT
And we let you in the country? Sheesh.
Slabby D

Trad climber
B'ham WA
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:06am PT
So, why do why need any more immigrants of any flavor? Aren't we crowded enough?

High tech firms can't get visas for skilled workers but we need a bunch of welfare cases?


Reilly nails what the chattering class is completely missing. No one has bothered to articulate how immigration of any sort benefits the typical American these days. Call it hypocritical all you want but a majority of people simply aren't going to buy into the idea that because their ancestors are immigrants we need to allow more immigrants.

It was only a week or two ago that the media/government was reassuring us how thorough our immigrant vetting policies were and how infrequently immigrants have been responsible for domestic terrorism. And look what happens.

Donald Trump might be repulsive but he's in it to win it and I think he's got his thumb on the general mood of his electorate.

Anyone else put off by the fact that the media/government seems to be completely avoiding the inconvenient fact that once again the terrorist came from SAUDI ARABIA? Weapons sales and cheap oil will trump national security everytime.

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:15am PT
Donald Trump might be repulsive but he's in it to win it and I think he's got his thumb on the general mood of his electorate.

On less than half of it..the really stupid half.

He ignores the reality that Muslims save 100's of American lives every day in America.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:16am PT
Donald Trump might be repulsive but he's in it to win it and I think he's got his thumb on the general mood of his electorate.

On less than half of it..the really stupid half.

He ignores the reality that Muslims save 100's of American lives every day in America.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:17am PT
He ignores the reality that Muslims save 100's of American lives every day in America.

How, by lowering our per capita consumption of pork?
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:18am PT
You don't think there are any Muslim Doctors, or EMTs in America?

Trumps knows this..he is pandering to the lowest common denominator of the Republican party.

Trump is an evil piece of sh#t.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:20am PT
Also, Muslims are saving Americans by fighting DAESH on the ground. Thousands have died for this cause.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:30am PT
climb posted
On less than half of it..the really stupid half.

Trump's current supporters make up roughly 6-8% of the American electorate.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:33am PT
So, why do why need any more immigrants of any flavor?

Because we like to believe that we are the greatest country on Earth, and that we support more righteousness and freedom than any country on Earth.

While it may be that limiting and restricting immigration for all peoples, on many levels, may be the smartest thing in the big picture, simply singling out Muslims is misguided, wrong headed, stupid, evil and will not solve anything.

Other than that it's a great idea.

Trump is an evil piece of sh#t.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:55am PT
So, why do why need any more immigrants of any flavor?

Because they grow our economy, acculturate people with American values and create the fabric for the next American generation.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Dec 8, 2015 - 10:26am PT
Muslims are saving Americans by fighting DAESH on the ground. Thousands have died for this cause.

We are all witnessing (courtesy today's electronic age and social media) Islam's evolution (reformation). What took Christianity, its sibling, a few hundred years over a continent or two it will get done (courtesy today's elect age and social media; and under much greater pressures and dynamics) in just a generation or two across the entire international community.

I only wish I could be around in 100 years to see the progress.

.....

Know any "secular Muslims" who believe in separation of Mosque and State? Encourage them. Know any progressive "reform Muslims" who have left behind the Quran-based fundamentalist belief of their parents? Encourage them. Know any "liberal Muslims" who support liberal values (e.g., free speech, live and let live, equality feminism, lgbt rights, etc) in all walks of life? who shun the illiberal values of conservative Islam? Encourage them. Help with the process.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 8, 2015 - 10:31am PT
So, why do why need any more immigrants of any flavor?

We have a capitalist economy at heart, and that sort of economy appears dependent upon constant growth.

The trend in population in the US, is that we are actually below a replacement rate at this point....and going lower, meaning a shrinking base.

I have not seen any economic discussion of how to deal with that....except to grow the population.

It appears that the only way to do that in the short term, is immigration. It also feeds into the bottom of the economy, for the most part.

But not entirely. We have very significant shortages of people in technical fields-----doctors, engineers, etc. The process of ramping up the production of these folks is slow, and very, very expensive. However, we can allow these people to immigrate, giving us a near-instantaneous solution to a tough problem.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 8, 2015 - 10:35am PT
We also don't have the stomach of totalitarian regimes to completely seal the borders and kick out all outsiders. Not going to happen.

With that mindset, immigration is inevitable, regardless of its desirability.
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Dec 8, 2015 - 10:41am PT
*
I have a question?

The majority of the people i know only have cell phones and have given up their landlines.
I still have a landline , but rarely participate in a political poll, i find the questions quite skewed.


To me it seems the polls would not be accurate... So what are the other ways that the pollsters are getting their numbers to show.. The Donald up in the polls?



edit: HighdessertDJ..thanks for the link...I will read it when i get home from work..

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 8, 2015 - 10:48am PT
nita queried
To me it seems the polls would not be accurate... So what are the other ways that the pollsters are getting their numbers to show.. The Donald up in the polls?

Terrific question. This is a huge problem and is part of why there are so many crappy polls these days. Sample size and demographics can skew polls terribly. Nate Silver talks about this a lot and here is an article about why Gallup was doing a good job and how a lot of the pollsters aren't. It lists some polls that they still consider worthy but this is why you shouldn't believe any one poll and you should never believe any poll until you look at it's method.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 8, 2015 - 01:47pm PT
Trump's response to President Obama's Oval Office speech about tolerance and empathy went about like this:

Who are these Muslim sports heroes?


In the past, Trump claimed to be a friend of Muhammad Ali, perhaps the greatest sports hero of the 20th century. Now, Trump declaims all knowledge of Ali. At the very least, Trump, with the so-called, self-professed "World's Greatest Memory", has forgotten that his friend, Muhammad Ali, famously changed his name from Cassius Clay when he converted to Islam in the 1960's.



Trump played football at a military-themed reform school. His father (one of New York's richest real estate tycoons, by the way) sent him there, after he exhibited uncontrollable anti-social and violent behavior against other students and even a teacher. Trump's aggressive sports play earned him the title of Team Captain, and a place in the reformatory's Sports Hall of Fame.

(Ironically, Trump was later deemed to be physically unfit for military service in Vietnam, because of "bone spurs". Even more ironically, Trump now claims to be the "Best Military Guy In The World", because he spent his high school years incarcerated in a military school reformatory.)


And Now,?

Donald Döuche is exhibiting the same symptoms of concussion-induced brain damage seen in Ali, Jerry Quarry, Junior Seau, and many ex-NFL players who have been examined post-mortem for the condition. The doctors call it Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) - - - brain damage caused by repeated strikes and blows to the head.


Read it here: Donald Döuche for President



Donald Döuche - The World's Number One Döuche



August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Dec 8, 2015 - 03:44pm PT
The majority of the people i know only have cell phones and have given up their landlines.
I still have a landline , but rarely participate in a political poll, i find the questions quite skewed.
To me it seems the polls would not be accurate... So what are the other ways that the pollsters are getting their numbers to show.. The Donald up in the polls?

I wonder why anyone thinks the people answering the skewed poll are being honest. Trump is clowning the republican establishment and republicans answering polls are clowning the people doing the polling. There are a lot of right wing voters who are enjoying having things stirred up. When it actually comes time to vote, it will be interesting to see if the votes for Trump is anywhere close to the "polls".
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Dec 8, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
Trump is enjoying watching the GOP squirm every time he pushes the envelope into the absurd. It is a weird power trip for him, just like his candidacy. Problem is, there are people that actually support him. I think an internment camp for radical right wingers would probably save a hell of a lot more lives than denying average muslims their constitutional rights.
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Dec 8, 2015 - 03:59pm PT
there are people that actually support him

A majority actually.


Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
Dec 8, 2015 - 04:02pm PT
I'm beginning to wonder if the "polls" are being intentionally inflated for Trump, just to make sure the Republicans go down hard. Conspiracy theory??? We'll see. People get soooo short-sighted during election time.

Either that, or America is really failing this intelligence test.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 8, 2015 - 04:06pm PT

A majority actually.

Yeah, a majority of rednecks.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Dec 8, 2015 - 04:09pm PT
The left is to blame for the creation of Donald Trump...

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/12/the-left-is-to-blame-for-the-creation-of-donald-trump/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"The American left has a huge problem in the form of a President who refuses to name Islamist terrorism or identify where it comes from. His likely successor, Hillary Clinton, has the same issue."

"When the political left refuses to identify where Islamic terrorism comes from, what drives it or what it can even be called, it leaves the ground wholly open for anyone else to do or say anything they want."
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
Dec 8, 2015 - 04:17pm PT
I bet there are some jihadis who are just ROFL at Obama's response to San Bernardino.

On the other hand, now, liberals are calling for Trump to be shot! Haha, Haha, none of them have any guns, so I think he's safe for now . . .
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Dec 8, 2015 - 04:27pm PT
I can guarantee the Jihadis are cheering on everything that Trump the Chump says. They are making him their b*tch.
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
Dec 8, 2015 - 04:31pm PT
You think they'd just love it if we sent in ground troops?
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Dec 8, 2015 - 04:37pm PT
They love that too. They want a holy war and the best way to get it is for us to start attacking the mainstream Muslims and turning them against us. That is way more effective than directly attacking radicals, don't you think?
philo

climber
Dec 8, 2015 - 04:37pm PT
philo

climber
Dec 8, 2015 - 05:22pm PT
^^^ Yer real gud at false equivalency and real bad at Hitler comparisons.
Do you support The Donald? Do you agree with The Donald? Would youo vote for The Donald if he gets the nomination?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 8, 2015 - 05:24pm PT
Cosmic:

Is there any difference between banning nationals of a specific state and banning persons of a specific religious belief?


Just askin'
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Dec 8, 2015 - 05:48pm PT
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Dec 8, 2015 - 06:29pm PT
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/bogus-meme-targets-trump/
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Dec 8, 2015 - 08:43pm PT
Okay, fair enough; Trump didn't say it, I didn't check and was fooled. I retract the post. Unfortunately, it's still true, as we are seeing every day.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 8, 2015 - 08:56pm PT
The thing is, with every outrageous statement, he sucks up the oxygen from all the other candidates. He also sets himself up for his third party run.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:09pm PT
It isn't Trump that bothers me so much, since he's merely a particularly mouthy specimen of wealthy white trash.

What REALLY scares me is that there's even a single U.S. citizen who is so spitefully ignorant of their responsibility to the concept of common humanity as to even consider voting for this toad.

Support for this jingoistic racist cheapens the good name of the United States across the entire civilized world.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:29pm PT
You Americans prove every day yer too damn stupid to even get a real true leader.

That's why true real leaders never appear in America anymore.

Smart Duck
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:52pm PT
So I'm still mystified by this sudden appreciation of Syrians. Where was
all this libtard angst during the Rwanda genocide? Why aren't we accepting
other African refugees from Boko Haram? I haven't seen any Angolans or
Mozambuiqans, let alone Spanish Saharans, Malians, Southern Sudanese, etc.
Methinks there's a double standard at work amongst the liberal chest beaters.
Or Africans less adept at filling out paper work and posing while they
wade ashore?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 8, 2015 - 09:56pm PT
I won't argue with that, Crankloon.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 9, 2015 - 06:55am PT
The gop is probably thinking a large [temporary - like Jan 2017] internment camp for trump supporters.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 9, 2015 - 07:24am PT
Reilly posted
So I'm still mystified by this sudden appreciation of Syrians. Where was
all this libtard angst during the Rwanda genocide?

You mean back when Republicans were yelling "we can't be the World Police" and denouncing Clinton for the "Black Hawk Down" incident in Somalia? There was tons of liberal fuss about it, Clinton was super worried about it but got no support from the Pentagon and Republicans (and much of the American public) made it clear that further intervention in Africa was not something it would support.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 9, 2015 - 07:33am PT
Werner, interesting how you keep referring to "you" Americans, and "your stuck with them."

Last I heard was that you were American and lived here too.

I guess the joke's on you. Lol.

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired Climber
Dec 9, 2015 - 07:57am PT
Polls are like the opinions of the "political experts" here on stuportopo.
Nobody believes what they say.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Dec 9, 2015 - 10:51am PT
speaking of the confederacy of dunces,

Just today NPR had an interview with Ted Cruz, who is taking the reins to lead the crusade of the climate change deniers down the path of ignorance.

It is really quite fantastic that someone can be so self deluded by surrounding themselves only with nonsense.

He even believes he is smarter than all of NASA

listen or read the transcript
http://www.npr.org/2015/12/09/459026242/scientific-evidence-doesn-t-support-global-warming-sen-ted-cruz-says

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/Ted-Cruz-lists-25-federal-programs-he-would-end-6627704.php
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 9, 2015 - 11:55am PT
How come Ted's list of boondoggles doesn't include farm subsidies for agribusiness or the oil depletion allowance?

Slabby D

Trad climber
B'ham WA
Dec 9, 2015 - 12:07pm PT
DT wants to ban muslim immigrants for an unspecified period of time. Ted is ready to nuke them right where they are. Given the choice I'm guessing they'd probably prefer DT.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Dec 9, 2015 - 04:15pm PT

So what? When has Trump ever cared about "facts"?
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 10, 2015 - 06:11pm PT
No more Muslims? Even white Muslims at a Black Muslim get together?

02-25-1962

couchmaster

climber
Dec 11, 2015 - 09:06am PT

Today's news: ISIS has their own authentic passport machines and have had for an estimated 17 months. So now it seems like it's a bad idea to stop letting Muslims (immigrate) in until this all gets sorted out? The US didn't know of this, nor do they know what effects, if any, that has caused.

What is shocking is how many otherwise normal Muslims say that should anyone insult the Prophet, they should be killed. Period. In surveys, Pew research has determined that a high percentage of Muslims want the Koran to be the law. They want democracy too, and they can co-exist, but not in the US. You can only pick one: Sharia, or the Constitution.

Many of us American as#@&%es commonly assume it's our right and duty to challenge and insult anybody we want on any issue. I see Christians and Christ attacked on this board all the time. Lets see some of you jackasses challenge your Muslim neighbors in a similar conversation. Many who come here from the mideast want Sharia law and believe the penalty for insulting Mohammed is death. So get out there and exercise your "First Amendment Rights" with some Muslims. Haha
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 11, 2015 - 09:37am PT
Many of us American as#@&%es commonly assume it's our right and duty to challenge and insult anybody we want on any issue.

Many of us think that such "people" would be best purged from the human race altogether.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Dec 11, 2015 - 01:30pm PT
This was hilarious...

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/73fxht/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-don-t-forget--donald-trump-wants-to-bang-his-daughter

dirtbag

climber
Dec 11, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
Ya know, this election is still very much in the establishment's control. If they can pick and unify behind one candidate before the election gets too far along they can defeat Trump without any brokered convention shenanigans. Trumps success so far has resulted from not only his ability to carry a popular message, but the establishment's failure to focus on a winner of their own.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 11, 2015 - 02:05pm PT
Success?

I lost track. How many delegates are committed to him?
dirtbag

climber
Dec 11, 2015 - 02:35pm PT
Well, a candidate who has a commanding lead in multiple polls for the presidential nomination of a major political party, with a mere month and a half before the election begins, and no signs of immiinent demise, is running a very successful campaign.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 11, 2015 - 02:42pm PT
He's also speaking openly of running as an independent again. I don't think he has a real shot at the nomination currently but he has a real shot at being a spoiler. And he's exposed Republican racist dog whistling for what it is.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 11, 2015 - 02:43pm PT
And he just might do it!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 11, 2015 - 02:45pm PT
In which case he will have no delegates.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 11, 2015 - 06:15pm PT
For those who may have missed the post, Blakey has been kind enough to inform us that Trump is slang in the U.K. for fart.

Gotta hand it to those Brits for their prescience.
couchmaster

climber
Dec 11, 2015 - 06:53pm PT


Sorry Paul, Trevor Noah is ...how they say, the opposite of hilarious. Unfunny is the start of it.

Naitch, that Borat/Kimmel thing was great. I watched it all, there's a guy who can cut down the Donald and be very humorous while doing it. Thanks!
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 11, 2015 - 07:02pm PT
Ready? Hell yes.

The Donut Trump rainbow Coalition.



pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 12, 2015 - 02:24pm PT
Good morning America! Many new polls are out. They are a great indication that you are fed up with political correctness and the direction that this country is headed- and so am I! Thank you for all of your support!

Donald Trump
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Dec 12, 2015 - 02:42pm PT

Sorry Paul, Trevor Noah is ...how they say, the opposite of hilarious. Unfunny is the start of it.

Naitch, that Borat/Kimmel thing was great. I watched it all, there's a guy who can cut down the Donald and be very humorous while doing it. Thanks!

Thanks for sharing...
dirtbag

climber
Dec 12, 2015 - 02:52pm PT
I think too many of his supporters are confusing crassness with candor.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 12, 2015 - 03:34pm PT
Trump's supporters are being polled

and the majority are white and not college educated, blue collar jobs

(that sound like you, Pyro, I don't know who you are other than you clearly seem to
post favorably about Trump) not any judgment or criticism, just observations
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 12, 2015 - 03:35pm PT
Ya know, this election is still very much in the establishment's control. If they can pick and unify behind one candidate before the election gets too far along they can defeat Trump without any brokered convention shenanigans. Trumps success so far has resulted from not only his ability to carry a popular message, but the establishment's failure to focus on a winner of their own.

The problem is, the power is now all Trump's.

Only he has the ability to decide that they have not treated him fairly, and run a third party campaign. Pretty much all agree that would sink the Repub nominee, whoever they are.

so, for them to "pick and unify" outside of the primary system may be the actual action that will kill the party choice totally.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 12, 2015 - 06:44pm PT
Maybe i missed something, Pyro.

What is your opinion of Trump?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 12, 2015 - 07:07pm PT
I must say, I only remember one other person (perot) who ever managed to create a stranglehold on a party, while being totally outside it.

You've got to give Trump credit for being able to amass this kind of political power, seemingly out of nowhere.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 12, 2015 - 07:10pm PT
Yeah, I'm ready for any old Tom, Duck, Harry, or Donald.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 12, 2015 - 07:25pm PT
Nowhere, Ken? Talk radio and Fox have been non-stop Obama hating for 7 years. He just tapped into this pre-existing crowd.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 12, 2015 - 08:55pm PT
You've got a point, Crank. However, he is the non-politician, and most of the rest are professionals. He did something that they did not.

Including Cruz, who is as anti-Obama as Putin. He could not capture the lightning, when I thought he would.

but here is the real bad news, from a focus group:

Mr Luntz also highlighted the risk to establishment Republicans, noting that when the 29 supporters were asked who they would support in a three-way election with Hillary Clinton, Senator Marco Rubio as the Republican nominee, and Mr Trump as an independent, 19 of them said they would stick with Mr Trump.

“The Republican establishment just had a heart attack,” Mr Luntz told the supporters in the room, who cheered, saying they were “tired of weak candidates”.

When the Republican nominee was switched to Senator Ted Cruz, the most hardline right-winger in the presidential field, 14 of 29 supporters said they would still stick with the businessman.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 13, 2015 - 11:26am PT



Maybe i missed something, Pyro.

What is your opinion of Trump?


still working on it! maybe will go down like ross perot..

so far he's play'n right into Hillary's hands.. maybe that's why she don't need much sunday morning press interviews
Norton

Social climber
Dec 13, 2015 - 11:30am PT
white power!

thanks
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 13, 2015 - 11:31am PT
Haha. Fox has a great track record.

One week before the last election, the Oreilly factor had Dick Morris predicting Romney in a landslide.

http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2012/11/01/dick-morris-romney-will-win-landslide/


5-10 points in the popular vote and 300+ electoral votes was his exact prediction


Carl Rove was doing a victory jig four days before the election, predicting 100-200 electoral vote margin. George Will was right with him.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/11/04/romney-landslide-here-are-the-biggest-names-predicting-it-how-it-will-happen/

Even Oreilly didn't believe it.



This is an example of all that is wrong with the news.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 13, 2015 - 11:33am PT
The Trumpster is going to mop the Hildabeast all over the floor with his toupee.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 13, 2015 - 12:06pm PT

Best use for his head. Never realized the dude was that jaundiced. Better get a liver test.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 13, 2015 - 01:53pm PT
Pyro: Allow me to be more specific. Do you agree with the majority of Trump's opinions?

If not, which ones do you most vehemently disagree with?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 13, 2015 - 02:04pm PT
"white power!

thanks"


That's funny!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 13, 2015 - 02:36pm PT
Stewart
My Uncle John was a really smart guy- top of the charts-- nice to have great genes!

this comment is strange coming from the Donald..

I've worked with a few MIT dudes.. they got themselves fired for not completing the task.. too much thinking!
Genes has nothing to do with reading and memorizing.
anybody can pay to be smart on paper..


Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 13, 2015 - 03:36pm PT
Pyro: So, that aside, you generally support Trump's candidacy?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 13, 2015 - 06:35pm PT
Cosmiccragsman: What in the hell are you smoking?

Can you cite credible sources to support your lunatic assertions?

Pyro: We're still waiting for your reply to my simple question.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 13, 2015 - 06:37pm PT

wow

I don't believe I have read anything so ignorant since high school.......
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 13, 2015 - 06:44pm PT
When RR took office the incoming justice dept officials threw out cases of Saul's books left behind by the Carter administration.

He's been the primary source for "progressives" for a long time. Worth reading if you follow the advice of Sun Tsu.

And yes Hildebeest did write her Sr thesis about him and was/is an acolyte.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 13, 2015 - 06:47pm PT
Cosmiccragsman: By the way, we're doing just fine up here in Canada. We LOVE our medicare & as nearly as I can tell, we're all mostly happy and are even completely free to speak our minds about pretty well anything. You know, we're almost as happy as the Norwegians, Swedes and the Danes.

Come to think of it, we, along with almost the entire civilized world, have yet to adopt mass shootings as our national sport... oh, yeah - we've got scads of guns up here, but we mostly use them on animals, not each other.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 13, 2015 - 06:59pm PT
Cosmiccragsman: speaking of idiots, that comma in front of US doesn't belong there and, by the way, do you mean US or the U.S.?

As far as intelligence goes, I don't consider you a particularly fearsome adversary in that department. Also, better I should be a "useful idiot" who is seeking a better world than a useless idiot like you whose sole purpose is to destroy any hope of creating one.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 13, 2015 - 07:15pm PT
Says the crankcase to the cannuk
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 13, 2015 - 07:39pm PT
Crankster: Thanks for your comment about those ninnies. Are they Siamese twins, by any chance?

... oh, yeah - did you notice that TGT couldn't even spell "Canuck" properly?

Got to go now. I am being whipped bloody by my evil Socialist overseer.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 13, 2015 - 07:52pm PT
you are not worthy of capitalization.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Dec 13, 2015 - 07:55pm PT
Was New Jersey thrown out of the United States?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 13, 2015 - 08:36pm PT
Pyro: We're still waiting for your reply to my simple question.

Cosmic this comment from Stewart cracked me up!

edit: Stewart just for you!

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 13, 2015 - 08:54pm PT
I don't know about that Cosmic. You haven't seen the get out the vote effort I witnessed in Nevada.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 13, 2015 - 09:18pm PT
vote effort I witnessed in Nevada


care to elaborate?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 14, 2015 - 11:46am PT
Trump doesn't have to evict New Jersey, or wall it off.

He has a history of seizing privately-held real estate, via eminent domain, for his own commercial use (see Kelo v. City of New London).


Trump's plan will probably be to seal off the bridges and tunnels that lead to Manhattan, and only allow Winners entry to his personal island fiefdom. He'll have Apache attack choppers constantly idling at the East River heliport, ready to engage any boats that come too close. He will evict all of the Losers from the newly renamed Trump Paradise Island Resort Casinos. Trump's island will displace Macau as the gambling center of the universe.


And Trump will make that loser New Jersey pay for his new casinos. Trust him. He gets things done. He's the Best. He's really, really, really rich. And, he's really, really, really smart.

And he says that if he wasn't married, he would date his own daughter.
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Dec 14, 2015 - 11:49am PT
I have one parrot that has a vocabulary of over seven hundred words.

Then he's too intelligent to vote Republican.











:-)
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 14, 2015 - 11:53am PT
"Care to elaborate".

2012 august, I was at Reno DMV for parts of 2 days wrangling with their people over computer systems that didn't acknowledge my out of state insurance certificate so I couldn't renew the registration.
Anyway, both days there were massive lines at the Spanish speaking only state I.D. service. Outside there were four vote registrars, 2 each on either side of a bank of multiple doors registering people as they exited, mainly the same spanish only speakers.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 14, 2015 - 04:33pm PT
TGT: Gee whiz... I guess I'm not even worthy of having Canuck spelled properly either. I'm devastated, particularly in view of the carefully reasoned and verifiable responses you and your clone what's-his-name have provided to back up your a*#ertions about the "Socialist" takeover of the U.S.

Pyro: I guess you don't have the balls to admit that you admire a genuine for real Fascist: a piece of white trash who is viewed with disgust and alarm by decent people across the entire planet, including your own Republican party.

Then again, perhaps I am being unfair. My sincerest apology awaits if I have falsely accused you.

Edit for cosmiccragsman: And it's a pity that you can, although I doubt that your writing skills are sufficient to scrawl a legible X on the ballot.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 14, 2015 - 05:11pm PT
2012 august, I was at Reno DMV for parts of 2 days wrangling with their people over computer systems that didn't acknowledge my out of state insurance certificate so I couldn't renew the registration.
Anyway, both days there were massive lines at the Spanish speaking only state I.D. service. Outside there were four vote registrars, 2 each on either side of a bank of multiple doors registering people as they exited, mainly the same spanish only speakers.

No english speakers whatever? really?

I wasn't aware there was anyplace in the United States that shut out English speakers.


Is it possible there is another method English speakers use?

Are you so stoopid you got in the wrong line?
Norton

Social climber
Dec 14, 2015 - 05:27pm PT
not difficult to point out ignorant, racist, bigotry on account of it being so obvious

takes some nerve to do so however as supposed to ignore that stuff in line with
everybody trying to get along and all.....and now two more banned for saying stuff
and not getting along with the other kids......

better to say nothing when the stink is bad?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 14, 2015 - 05:48pm PT
Cosmiccragsman: SPECTACULAR retort! I'm reeling.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 14, 2015 - 06:26pm PT
What part of my post are you upset with Lorenzo?

Oh, you must be outraged at the racism exhibited by excluding English speakers from a line at DMV. Me too.

Anyway, after Acorn was busted for only having 23,000 valid voter registrations out of 91,000 they signed up in 2009 in Clark County alone, something had to be done to continue the illegal vote machine. So having a valid id as a result of the real id act of 2005 would go a long ways towards resisting invalidation. Not repeating the disastrous bust of the illegal vote machine of 2009 was crucial during 2012's election, at least for Harry Reid whose freinds and family were on the ballot.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 15, 2015 - 01:14pm PT
Trump on Meet the Press.


He seems pretty reasonable, here. Trump might be schizophrenic. He's crazy one minute, and then thoughtful and intelligent the next minute.

That's not so good, for a guy who's ravenous for the Doomsday Button.


[Click to View YouTube Video]






EDIT: Nobody here has the right to denigrate or defame Werner von Braun.

He rules - - - we're fools.


Get over it.




WVB is WAY past anybody who "climbs".

Only Bridwell is more God-like.



Actually, Bridwell, Braun and Billy are the Holy Trinity.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 15, 2015 - 01:59pm PT
I guess you don't have the balls to admit that you admire a genuine for real Fascist: a piece of white trash who is viewed with disgust and alarm by decent people across the entire planet, including your own Republican party.

Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 15, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
Hey Pyro: Is that a photograph of your brain?

Got your swastika armband from Trump HQ yet?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 15, 2015 - 04:52pm PT
Shhhh...George Pataki is speaking.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 15, 2015 - 05:06pm PT
These guys make a little more sense than the first team crankloons.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Dec 15, 2015 - 05:25pm PT
That is why they are the farm team. They haven't gone fully insane yet.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 15, 2015 - 06:03pm PT
Yo Pyro: I was wondering why you used cut and paste so often instead of actually printing rational comments.

Wondering, that is, until I saw some of your posts elsewhere: it appears as though you're borderline illiterate... no, maybe that's unfair - perhaps you're just terminally stupid, like your pals TGT and cosmiccragsman.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 15, 2015 - 06:26pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Steward my ENGLISH is a second language


Check out the illegal video I published on youtubr.. it as close to politics as I can get
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 15, 2015 - 06:55pm PT
cosmiccragsman: Congratulations. You spelled "reeling" correctly, or did you hire someone to help you with that comment?

Actually, the "shit talking" began when you refused to post verifiable sources to back up your avalanche of crapulous political slander - slander that was breathtaking in its paranoid venom, and a bit much even for someone as pig-ignorant as yourself.

Now go piss up a rope.

EDIT

Pyro: Amazing - a U.S. Nazi whose second language is English. Careful, Trump might deport you, or some "patriot" might mistake you for a Muslim and shoot you - those are exactly the type of as#@&%es you are supporting.

By the way, my name is spelled "Stewart", so apparently your copying skills are pretty lame as well.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 15, 2015 - 07:22pm PT
I wrote a paper on hitler in 9th grade.

I must be a fascist.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 15, 2015 - 07:23pm PT
Nice to see the kinder gentler taco in full bloom.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 15, 2015 - 07:35pm PT
cosmiccragsman: Yeah - Wikipedia is an infallible source of accurate info.

I'll give you that one for free, though. Are you so deluded as to actually believe that the kind of politics one subscribes to in college is going to stick to them like glue for the remainder of their life? It sure didn't work that way for pretty well everyone I knew back then.

Even even after granting you THAT one for free, if Hilary is actually a secret and genuine Social Democrat, not only will my respect for her skyrocket, but the rest of the civilized world will view her election with delight should that event come to pass.

Now, since I've been so co-operative, let's see you provide sources for the rest of your crap - just like I asked you to do the first time. Since I gave you Hilary as a freebee, I'll expect you to provide more than one respectable, verifiable source to back up your claims. Educated people expect that - it indicates that you've made an honest effort to locate the truth.

Oh, yeah - it is possible to piss up a rope. Real men can piss in any direction, not just when they're rappelling.

AND

I take it as an honour to be called a jerk by the likes of you.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 15, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
Trump just said we have to keep a madman from gaining access to nuclear weapons. Couldn't agree more.

Jim, nice video, thanks. What a fascinating couple. Elsa Dorfman's photography is exceptional.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 15, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]


Steward how dare u go after a ZAMBONI driver.. enjoy my own finest youtube video..

Jim ur welcome this year I might post my vote but then again that kinda sucks!
Norton

Social climber
Dec 15, 2015 - 08:03pm PT
I took a class in college that required the reading of Karl Marx's works

therefore: I am a Communist


I once lived in a boarding house that included three Muslims down the hall

therefore; I have been radicalized and am now a secret terrorist sympathizer
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 15, 2015 - 08:37pm PT
At last Norton is honest in his admission of being an Islamocommie.
couchmaster

climber
Dec 15, 2015 - 08:39pm PT



Hey, I didn't see any of you all at the watch Jeb (at the debate) party. Wait, there's Crankloon in the front row with a red bull




His mom made him go, she's in the back there.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 16, 2015 - 08:20am PT
Good morning America! A great evening at the CNN ‪#‎GOPDebate‬. THANK YOU for all of your messages on social media. It is time to get back out on the campaign trail - so WE can ‪#‎MakeAmericaGreatAgain‬! The "silent majority" is being heard - loud and clear! ‪#‎Trump2016

Donald..


Don I think you did a great job last night.. especially when you corrected the crowd..

ur a breath of fresh air!
John M

climber
Dec 16, 2015 - 10:21am PT
Jim..

I really enjoyed those last two videos you posted. Just watched them. They gave me food for thought. I am probably guilty of trying comfortize the forum. I don't want to start it, but it would be interesting to have a conversation forum wide on the subject of harassment versus free speech based on what those two videos show. Were Crowley, Philo, LEB, and the Chief just practicing free speech, or were they harassing? Can a forum be harassed? Those kinds of questions. Lots of folks on this forum have complained about a PC environment. I want to see what they believe that means and what we should or shouldn't do about it.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 16, 2015 - 10:42am PT
what, are you 14, Pyro?
dirtbag

climber
Dec 16, 2015 - 11:07am PT
Trump is the crotchety, kind of racist, old neighbor down the street, who believes the first thing that pops in his head constitutes cogent policy, and wonders why the hell Washington can't simply apply basic, good ol' common sense and man sized balls to get things done.

In other words, he's like a lot of people (except with a fook of a lot more money).
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 16, 2015 - 11:21am PT
(except with a fook of a lot more money).

MOney will win this election.. always has always will
jstan

climber
Dec 16, 2015 - 12:26pm PT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRl4ksfXEA8

Could not watch as my system is like me. Too old. (F---g useless?)
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Dec 16, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
trump in the white house ... what don rickles wasn't available?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 16, 2015 - 06:08pm PT
There are certain people who I find nearly as repugnant as Fascists like pyro et al - namely self-proclaimed "liberals" who feel that behaving like fawning toadies towards Fascists will magically cause these fanatics to renounce their twisted beliefs and rejoin the gentler inhabitants of this planet.

I feel that it is sad that there are people who believe that good manners work when communicating with these people, and particularly so when it appears that the ambassadors of pleasant, politically correct behaviour seem to be too intellectually lazy to learn from the lessons of the 1930s and the bloodiest war in human history - a war that could have been avoided if the "good guys" had been "rude" enough to stand against the politics of murder.

For evil to triumph, all that is required is for good people to do nothing.

I don't claim to be the author of the above quote, but I believe it is the duty of all people of good will to live by these words.
Binks

climber
Uranus
Dec 16, 2015 - 06:14pm PT
I like Trump. He just says out loud what they all are thinking anyway, and at least he is entertaining. There is nothing whatsoever shocking about the guy, he is a typical Republican as far as I can tell.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 16, 2015 - 06:21pm PT
Whaddisit about Trump dat reminds me of da Babe?

It sure ain't his power-hitting.

Oh, hell yeah, it's his regard for his fella-man!Dat's gotta be it!



T?S

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Dec 16, 2015 - 08:01pm PT
There is nothing whatsoever shocking about the guy, he is a typical Republican as far as I can tell.

Binks, you've hit the nail on the head.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 16, 2015 - 08:10pm PT
"Stripes and plaid are gonna be HUGE this Christmas!! That's not just ME saying that, but EVERYONE."
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Dec 16, 2015 - 08:59pm PT
After listening to Trump's campaign and the Republican debates I am desperately embarrassed and ashamed to be identified as American. Not so much by Trump himself, as there are fools in every society. We just got rid of one in Canada. What is horribly troubling is his mindless, enthusiastic support by so many Americans. That is terrifying.

Just picture Donald Trump with his finger on the nuclear button.

And ISIS best allies are these politicians and the media. What does a terrorist want? He wants to terrorize people. And the pols and the media are just falling all over themselves telling the world how scared we are. ISIS has to be delighted.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 16, 2015 - 10:31pm PT
People greatly overemphasize the power a president has. Luckily, it takes
two USAF/Navy officers to launch and I doubt there are two who would
launch on The Donald's command. If there were one of each there would
never be a launch.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 17, 2015 - 03:44pm PT
Reilly - When he's on Air Force One, he can do it all by himself. That's why you guys should be really careful about who ends up in the Oval Office.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 17, 2015 - 04:20pm PT
Stewie, put down the crack pipe, no he can't. He can order the general to
order a launch but it still takes two officers to turn their keys simultaneously
at the launch site.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 17, 2015 - 04:51pm PT
Reilly: He needs the Secretary of State, whom he can fire & keep firing the subsequent replacements until he gets one to agree, to confirm the order. Also, are you trying to tell me that ALL people who happen to be trained to consider the POTUS as Commander in Chief would disobey his orders? It sure didn't work that way in Nazi Germany.

No matter, though - with a piece of genetic scum like Trump in the Oval Office, the United States is going to find out that it has completely lost all respect in the civilized world community, and Daesh and its supporters will be dancing in the streets celebrating his inauguration.

And, Reilly, I'm glad you're so well acquainted with crack, which is exactly what I've suspected for a long time. As for me, I truly don't have the faintest idea what crack looks like, although I hear it comes in small chunks.

P.S.: The for those unfamiliar with the term Daesh, it's the best word to use when referring to ISIS, since it pisses them off big time.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 17, 2015 - 05:08pm PT
I think there are different protocols for Launch on Warning, Launch Under Attack, and First Strike.

The first two can happen pretty quickly. (7-35 minutes) the key is the President has to act on information brought to him from the Military. He can't just dream it up. In practice, the near misses on acting on that protocol shows it takes longer than that. Plenty of time to kiss your ass goodbye.

As to First Strike, I'm pretty sure he can't order a nuclear attack on his own without at a minimum, the vetting of the protocols for determining his sound judgement under the 25th ammendment, and the War Powers Resolution of 1973.The order requires at least the notification of Congressional leaders and has to go through the chain of command, including the DOD. Only Congress can declare total war without a defensive threat.

But the POTUS has an out. He can declare he is operating pursuant to treaties ( like the NATO treaty Congress has already approved)

But we have no worries. Today Putin said Trump was a talented man and very bright.
"He says that he wants to move to another level of relations, to a deeper level of relations with Russia. How can we not welcome that? Of course we welcome it,” Putin told reporters."



What could possibly go wrong?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 17, 2015 - 05:09pm PT
Stewie, give yer knickers a chance to unbunch, eh? While they're airing
out you can watch the documentary "DR Strangelove", it presents all the
niceties of nuclear war in a easy to understand format, even for Canadians.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 17, 2015 - 05:26pm PT
Reilly : excellent suggestion. Should Trump get elected, I imagine that flick has a very real possibility of being mistaken for a documentary.

By the way, unlike you, I don't wear women's underwear, although you're more than welcome to clothe yourself any way you choose - I don't suppose the goat you're screwing cares how you dress.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 17, 2015 - 06:04pm PT
cosmiccragsman: More of your rocket science observations. I've never even heard of Alinsky, whoever he is - kind of like credible sources for the rest of your crap.

By the way, if I recall correctly, Reilly accused me of being a crack addict, as well as being a transvestite. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but none of this is true.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 17, 2015 - 06:33pm PT
cosmiccragsman: I'm deeply honoured to be credited with such an opus. Unfortunately for you, I have stated the truth - I've never heard of the guy, and am not interested enough to even Google him.

None of this helps me to stop thinking of you as a particularly unpleasant idiot. Perhaps if you learned how to spell, punctuate and demonstrate occasional proof of at least a feeble grasp of reality, I might be inclined to treat you with more respect.

Having stated the above, I have no doubt that I occasionally make errors in punctuation and grammar, but I try my very best to make sure that my comments have at least a passing acquaintance with the world of fact. You should try this some time.
Gary

Social climber
Hell is empty and all the devils are here
Dec 17, 2015 - 06:45pm PT
...but it still takes two officers to turn their keys simultaneously
at the launch site.

Not if there's a Doomsday Machine.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 19, 2015 - 07:22pm PT


Donald pffffft

H,D,L

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Dec 19, 2015 - 08:00pm PT
A line in one of my favorite films applies quite well here:

"You are all very stupid people, and you don't know anything."
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 19, 2015 - 08:45pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Dec 21, 2015 - 09:26am PT
White supremacist groups are grooving on Donald.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/12/21/how-donald-trump-is-breathing-life-into-americas-dying-white-supremacist-movement/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trump_supremacist_11am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 21, 2015 - 09:54am PT
Ghost, I didn't know that Yogi Berra had movie script credits. Cool!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 21, 2015 - 10:59am PT
Yup.
couchmaster

climber
Dec 21, 2015 - 11:27am PT


With all the repubs trying to talk tougher than the next one, I thought this was in interesting take on it showing Trump 2nd least hawkish, and Rand Paul least.

CANDIDATE HAWKISH POSITIONS PERCENT HAWKISH
Marco Rubio 31 out of 31 100%
Carly Fiorina 13 out of 13 100
Rick Santorum 24 out of 25 96
Mike Huckabee 19 out of 20 95
Lindsey Graham 56 out of 59 95
Chris Christie 17 out of 18 94
George Pataki 13 out of 14 93
Jeb Bush 25 out of 27 93
Jim Gilmore 10 out of 11 91
Ted Cruz 14 out of 16 88
Ben Carson 17 out of 22 77
John Kasich 15 out of 21 71
Donald Trump 17 out of 31 55
Rand Paul 11 out of 48 23

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lindsey-graham-tries-to-stop-trump-the-only-way-he-can-by-quitting/

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 21, 2015 - 11:59am PT
I simply don't think the Trump hate train will get Hillary and the DNC where they want to go.
It would probably work for an unknown like Carson, but people know Trump. Here in nyc, we know him as a capable administrator.

Consider the Wollman Rink in 1986, nearly 30 years ago. I remember this playing out in real time. A lot of a$$wipes dismissed Trump as a blowhard and wound up with their own credibility destroyed.

http://articles.philly.com/1986-11-01/news/26094092_1_ice-rink-donald-trump-trump-time

Back in June, when the city's bungled, six-year effort to renovate the Wollman Ice-Skating Rink in Central Park was $12 million over budget with no end in sight, real-estate tycoon Donald Trump stepped forward.

Just give the project to me, he said, and I'll finish the rink by Christmas. This Christmas. And for free.

"I have total confidence that we will be able to do it," Trump said at the time. "I am going on record as saying that I will not be embarrassed."

Yesterday morning, in a gala ceremony down in the sunken, tree-shrouded gulch just off Central Park South, Trump unveiled his completed rink - the ''largest man-made skating rink in the world," glistening with a mirror- perfect sheath of virgin ice.

He was two months ahead of schedule, and $750,000 under budget.

and btw, he still runs it like a guy nursing an antique clock on the mantle, you can visit it next time you are in the city.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 21, 2015 - 12:16pm PT
He was two months ahead of schedule, and $750,000 under budget.

And Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 21, 2015 - 12:20pm PT
How can a project that was free be $750,000 under budget?

And it's just more truthiness, including that the Skating rink isn't even close to the largest artificial rink in the World. It might not be the largest in Manhattan. It only has room for 150 skaters at a time. One in Ottowa is ten times the size.
More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Dec 21, 2015 - 12:45pm PT
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 21, 2015 - 12:58pm PT
Ok, ducky, what was the budget?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 21, 2015 - 01:02pm PT
Estimated material and labor costs. Even though Trump offered his organization and management skills for free there was still materials and workmen to pay-don't you think Lorenzo?
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 21, 2015 - 01:11pm PT
It must be hard to go through life, looking at everything through a prism of rigid partisan ideology. Try to make facts fit into tight ideological boxes.

It was 6 years and 12 million over budget. Basically destroyed. No one knew what to do with it.

Trump did, what he is doing now. A "Can Do" attitude. And he did. Hillary and the Democrats are simply not taking Trump seriously enough. They're waiting for him to somehow blow up.

He won't blow up, in fact he will get better and better over time. Hillary should count on this.

I will still probably vote for Hillary, I live in the bluest of blue, it really doesn't matter anyway, but don't expect me to crawl under my bed if Trump is elected.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 21, 2015 - 01:18pm PT

Dec 21, 2015 - 01:02pm PT
Estimated material and labor costs. Even though Trump offered his organization and management skills for free there was still materials and workmen to pay-don't you think Lorenzo?

Yes, but the "budget " he set to "finish the job for free" was an invented number. No bids, no nothing.


He could as well have declared he was 12 million under budget.

He parlays with the truth like he did when he just said the fiasco like the naming of the Miss universe pageant would have happened under his watch.

No, but he lost Univision and NBC over his racist comments so the pageant became worthless. And he sold it for a song.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 21, 2015 - 01:32pm PT
I guess the Blue Pill simply will not allow you to give the devil his due. Or maybe you would've had to see it playing out across the pages of the New York Daily News for 12 years. As one a$$wipe after another, declared the project impossible. Fact is, Trump is a very capable administrator. If Hillary goes with that attitude ^^^ - she loses.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 21, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
The Donald knows how to fire people. Fire is a four letter word to Libtards.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 21, 2015 - 01:41pm PT
I'm under the impression, that federal employees, can not be fired.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 21, 2015 - 01:44pm PT
EDIT: And the pig-ignorant word "hate" is a four letter motto for Trump supporters.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 21, 2015 - 01:49pm PT
I'm under the impression, that federal employees, can not be fired.

Ask some ex air traffic controllers.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 21, 2015 - 01:50pm PT
I guess I assed for that. Putting up some ole $hit begats moar ole $hit.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 21, 2015 - 01:52pm PT
Fire is a four letter word to Libtards.

it that so, Reilly?

I own my own business for that past 40 years, and I routinely have to "fire" people

I am and I do vote for Democrats or as you say "Libtards"

is your point that I am therefore "retarded" and lacking your powerful intellect Reilly?

Why am I stupid, or at the least stupider than you, Reilly, presuming you equate
intelligence with what, the way you "reason" and the intelligence of those who you vote for?

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 21, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
Norton, you make a lot of assumptions based on one sentence!
BwaHaHaHaHa!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 21, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
I'm under the impression, that federal employees, can not be fired

It's not easy, and a giant PITA, takes a long time and ridiculous levels of documentation, chances to improve via "Performance Improvement Plans", etc. But I fired one this year. And I'm about as liberal as they come.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 21, 2015 - 02:35pm PT
Well that's more along the lines of what we all saw with the ACA website debacle and the VA debacle.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 21, 2015 - 07:36pm PT
That all you got , Reilly?

just an inane bawawa?

that's your answer to calling the majority of people on this thread and ST - "libtards"?
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 21, 2015 - 07:42pm PT
"She was favored to win, and she got schlonged," Trump said, turning a vulgar noun for a large penis into a verb.

Not only a great oddsman, but turns a poetic phase, eh.


Is Donald not favored to win [in his own mind]? Will he get hosed. Does anyone know if there is any truth to the rumor that Donald paid Hilliary to piss on him at the wedding?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 21, 2015 - 07:45pm PT
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 21, 2015 - 10:00pm PT
You know, I'd be willing to tolerate the insulting label "libtards" if I saw even the slightest carefully presented and verifiable proof that the Fascist frenzy advocated by Trump and his ilk is an honourable template for the creation of a future government of the U.S.

One thing I will bet the farm on, though - a United States with Trump in the White House will result in widespread celebrations by all supporters of Daesh. (Daesh is a less complimentary name for ISIS, since most Tea Baggers are too dumb to realize this).

Oh, by the way, how come you brave "patriots" haven't demanded that the Statue of Liberty be dismantled, since it is clearly an affront to your deepest convictions?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 21, 2015 - 10:26pm PT
Why y'all so angry if you're so convinced yer gonna win? I know you're
gathering yer tar and feathers and sharpening yer guillotines in gleeful
anticipation!
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 21, 2015 - 10:36pm PT
Just part of the five stages of grief Reilly. Don't worry, finally they'll come to acceptance and love of The Donald.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 21, 2015 - 11:05pm PT
"Why y'all so angry if you're so convinced yer gonna win?"

Angry? More like disgusted. That there are so many people in this wonderful country that actually identify with Trump's hateful sh#t. And if you are a Republican and find his sh#t to be not at all why you are Republican, then grow a set and call him out for what he is.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 03:33am PT
Mike, on the Larry Wilmore show, said, basically,




Trump is running to discredit and ruin the Republican party.


Trump hasn't said any crazy (stuff) like this before.


The only way it makes sense is that he wants a Democrat to be President.







Sagacious.




crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 22, 2015 - 06:33am PT
"Trump hasn't said any crazy (stuff) like this before".

The reality TV star and businessman has spoken extensively about his questions over whether Barak Obama was actually born in Hawaii like he (and the state of Hawaii) says he was.

In 2011, when he was vocally mulling over a possible presidential run, Trump launched a public pursuit of Obama's birth certificate, announcing that he has sent private investigators to Hawaii to see what they could find.

"He doesn't have a birth certificate. He may have one, but there's something on that, maybe religion, maybe it says he is a Muslim," Trump told Fox News in 2011. "I don't know. Maybe he doesn't want that."

He continued to defend his decision to bring up the issue, and told ABC News’ John Karl in 2013 that he knew what he was doing.
"I don't think I went overboard. Actually, I think it made me very popular... I do think I know what I'm doing," Trump said in 2013.

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 22, 2015 - 06:46am PT
He has obliterated the mold. He has next to zero "ground game" in Iowa. He flies around to other states, seemingly randomly. I'm guessing the US election process, is forever altered. Of course, he could get his head handed to him in the early primary states. It would be hilarious, if getting roasted in Iowa, is a mere speed bump and he starts to pick up steam, far later in the process.

I for one, resent the disproportionate effect of Iowa and New Hampshire. Here in NY, it's often settled by the time our primary rolls around.

Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 22, 2015 - 07:00am PT
Christians will get the guillotine first.

If history is any indication, Christians will be manning the guillotines. When they run out of Muslims and Jews they'll turn on each other. Probably the catholics will be the first to get the chop.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 22, 2015 - 07:22am PT
If history is any indication, Christians will be manning the guillotines. When they run out of Muslims and Jews they'll turn on each other. Probably the catholics will be the first to get the chop.

How myopic.
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 07:26am PT
Stupidity is a very common, and often well rewarded, trait in the U.S.

SAN DIEGO — The owners of a company that provides janitorial and housekeeping services to luxury hotels across Southern California have been indicted in a $7 million insurance fraud and tax evasion scheme that lasted nearly a decade, prosecutors said Monday.

Does it really take 10 years to figure something like this out? The indicters have already proved the case for their own stupidity. However, check out the size of their retirement benefits. May be as big as a schlong.

Does Trump do it at his places?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 07:33am PT
I for one, resent the disproportionate effect of Iowa and New Hampshire. Here in NY, it's often settled by the time our primary rolls around.

I'm not convinced that primaries accomplish all that much, other than burning untold quantities
of jet fuel. We're expected to rearrange our lives to save the world from global warming yet
these dysfunctional egos can jet all over ad nauseum? Hypocrites, every last one of 'em.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 08:30am PT
So trump now says Hillary got
"Schlonged" in 2008.

Classy. Dignified. Presidential.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 08:32am PT



Dec 21, 2015 - 10:34pm PT
Christians will get the guillotine first.


This Christian victimhood bit has gotten old.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 22, 2015 - 08:44am PT
This Christian victimhood bit has gotten old.

Excellent point. Who cares about the thousands of Christians killed by ISIS this year. Or the hundreds of thousands displaced by ISIS. Boring.

Unless you're a minority in the US, no one cares.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 22, 2015 - 08:49am PT
So trump now says Hillary got
"Schlonged" in 2008.

Classy. Dignified. Presidential.

Indeed. He showed his Brooklyn roots. Anyone that does Real Estate in Brooklyn, spends a lot of time with people of the Jewish faith. As did he. As did I. My early apartment flipping financier, had concentration camp tattoos.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 22, 2015 - 08:55am PT
Excellent point. Who cares about the thousands of Christians killed by ISIS this year. Or the hundreds of thousands displaced by ISIS. Boring.

Or how the Christians in Iraq lived alongside their Muslim neighbors under Saddam. And then we came along and opened the door for ISIS.

Who cares that the most virulent Palestinian terrorist, George Habash, was a Christian?

No, none of that matters. Only facts that fit the story we want to hear matter.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 08:57am PT
Excellent point. Who cares about the thousands of Christians killed by ISIS this year. Or the hundreds of thousands displaced by ISIS. Boring.

Other than the fact that Muslims have been bearing the brunt of Isis abuse.

But perhaps you were too busy fighting the war on Christmas to notice?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 22, 2015 - 08:58am PT
^^^
Ah, the ol "straight talking NY/NJ" angle. Kinda what they said about Kris Krispy Kreme Kristy...how's that working for the Outlaw Jersey Whale?

Here's the thing - outside the immediate NY/NJ/CT area, the in-your-face Noo Yawkah bluster just makes people just think you're an as#@&%e....which in the case of Trump and the Round Mound of a Clown happens to be true.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:01am PT
Indeed. He showed his Brooklyn roots. Anyone that does Real Estate in Brooklyn, spends a lot of time with people of the Jewish faith. As did he. As did I. My early apartment flipping financier, had concentration camp tattoos.


Nothing wrong with that. I'm pretty crass at times myself, and "schlong" is a regular part of my vocabulary.

But I'm not running for president. And I don't want a presidential candidate, let alone, president, giving speeches like that.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:01am PT
Or how the Christians in Iraq lived alongside their Muslim neighbors under Saddam. And then we came along and opened the door for ISIS.

Does that somehow discount the plight of Christians in that part of the World?

No, none of that matters. Only facts that fit the story we want to hear matter.

Right. Like your comment about Christians manning the guillotines.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:06am PT
Other than the fact that Muslims have been bearing the brunt of Isis abuse.

But perhaps you were too busy fighting the war on Christmas to notice?

What are you saying? Since more Muslims are being harmed, the plight of Christians doesn't matter?

How broad-minded.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:07am PT
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:12am PT
Nothing wrong with that. I'm pretty crass at times myself, and "schlong" is a regular part of my vocabulary.

I can't remember the last time I used it. But my Brooklyn days are far behind me now.

An even bigger point, is wtf he was doing in Grand Rapids MI? There's so much of this, that is redefining our Presidential experience.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:18am PT
Ed posted
What are you saying? Since more Muslims are being harmed, the plight of Christians doesn't matter?

You're the kind of guy who when confronted with disproportionate abuse of minorities by police starts complaining about how nobody cares that police are abusive to white people sometimes too, aren't you.

Nobody has proposed barring Christian refugees from the US. In fact, people have specifically stated that we should only be allowing Christian refugees from Syria to enter the US.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:26am PT
Right. Like your comment about Christians manning the guillotines.

Well, who was manning this chopper?
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:31am PT
^^ You got something there.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:32am PT
"Schlong" as a yiddish word, has always carried a sexual connotation, referring to a man's penis itself. According to the Yiddish Slang Dictionary, the word comes from the German tern schlange, for "snake."

Having spend my own number of years in NYC, with Jewish/Yiddish culture surrounding me, I never once heard anyone use the term as a verb. "Shtup," on the other hand, yes. "She got shtupped," "I could use a good shtupping." But even then, the word was not used to refer to losing an election or getting screwed over.


So..... giving Trump some benefit of the doubt for being a bad study of his environment, had he said that Hillary got "shtupped," he would STILL be a misogynist and a creep.

The man has clearly shown that he has issues with women. A real class act, that one.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:33am PT
You're the kind of guy who when confronted with disproportionate abuse of minorities by police starts complaining about how nobody cares that police are abusive to white people sometimes too, aren't you.

Wow.

That was quick.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:37am PT
Don't Forget- Donald Trump wants to bang his Daughter
dirtbag

climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:44am PT
No, apogee, he wants to schlong her.

I never once heard anyone use the term as a verb.

Me too. Thanks, Donald, I learned something new.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:56am PT
Trump loves women. Why else would he have had four wives?

Hildabeast loves women too. Why else would Bill be going around as a serial rapist?
dirtbag

climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 10:10am PT
What are you saying? Since more Muslims are being harmed, the plight of Christians doesn't matter?

Wow.

That was quick.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 11:51am PT
Didn't Jon Stewart wisely do a skit that the "race card" was over drawn?
When you can't debate, go with the Ad hominem, no?

However ridiculous Trump's candidacy may be, it is no more ridiculous than all of American politics at this time.
How many Democrats have appologized for asserting out loud that “all lives matter”?
Are the Democrats so vested in the demagoguery of identity politics that the phrase “all men are created equal” is now toxic?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 11:58am PT
Larry, why haven't you taken the time to answer your own question? Are you so scared to learn something that challenges your gut reaction that you have avoided reading some of the many thoughtful pieces on why "all lives matter" was a dismissive response to the Black Lives Matter movement that was worthy of apology? If you really think that "all men are created equal" then why are you so bothered that people are calling attention to the fact that our country does not bear out that platitude?

You'll note that Stewart's wise critique of the race card was not "race is not an issue."
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:06pm PT
However ridiculous Trump's candidacy may be, it is no more ridiculous than all of American politics at this time.

Clearly, you are not paying attention.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:07pm PT
You'll note that Stewart's wise critique of the race card was not "race is not an issue."

Right. It's about being overused as a rallying point, diluting the issue.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:11pm PT
That's a fact, crankster.

Comments like that...or the typical 'it doesn't matter which Party you vote for'...call out pretty clear ignorance & indifference in my book.

There is plenty of dysfunctional overlap between the two Partys, but there are clear differences, too. From women's choice to wars to the right to love who we want to soooo many other important social issues that directly affect our lives & those around us each and every day, there's a great difference in how one Party acts vs. the other.

And if you can't see the deteriorating difference in political discourse today vs. years ago, you really haven't been paying attention.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:18pm PT
Ed posted
Right. It's about being overused as a rallying point, diluting the issue.

Which is an easy fig leaf to bring up when you don't want to talk about race. Let me put it this way: if someone doesn't know why "all lives matter" was a stupid thing to say they also don't know enough to decide when the "race card" is being overused.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:19pm PT
HDDJ
I totally reject the "Black Lives Matter" movement as partisan and reactionary. Much dishonesty has arisen from their inflammatory rhetoric.
OTOH: I think police departments definitely have a self induced problem in minority neighborhoods.

"All men are created equal" is one lofty goal of our great democracy.
As individual human beings, we have along way to go...all of us.

You may disagree with my perspective of "Black Lives Matter".
You obviously don't know what is truly in my heart.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:21pm PT
Crankster
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.
;-)
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
Well, who was manning this chopper?

Anti Papist secular "progressives".

(French: la Terreur), was a period of violence that occurred after the onset of the French Revolution, incited by conflict between two rival political factions, the Girondins and The Mountain, and marked by mass executions of "enemies of the revolution".




The Roman Catholic Church opposed the revolution, which had turned the clergy into employees of the state and required they take an oath of loyalty to the nation (through the Civil Constitution of the Clergy).

Among people who were condemned by the revolutionary tribunals, about 8% were aristocrats, 6% clergy, 14% middle class, and 72% were workers or peasants accused of hoarding, evading the draft, desertion, or rebellion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:26pm PT
Which is an easy fig leaf to bring up when you don't want to talk about race. Let me put it this way: if someone doesn't know why "all lives matter" was a stupid thing to say they also don't know enough to decide when the "race card" is being overused.

Hillary Clinton ~ RACIST!
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:27pm PT
apogee wrote:
And if you can't see the deteriorating difference in political discourse today vs. years ago, you really haven't been paying attention.


To paraphrase some famous guy. "Elections have consequences. We won, you lost"
Yeah, I see what you mean.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:35pm PT
There's only one party now in Washington.

The inside the beltway party.

Bern doesn't scare them. He's an old tired man.

Cruz certainly scares the crap out of them.

Trump, will eventually make a deal with them.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:36pm PT
And if you can't see the deteriorating difference in political discourse today vs. years ago, you really haven't been paying attention.

I agree. Each decade seems to set new lower standards.

Juvenile smacktalk is now acceptable by national figures.

It's hard to fathom a presidential candidate could get away with the crap Trump spouts. But he does. And a sizeable portion of the population are okay with it.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:38pm PT
Cruz certainly scares the crap out of them.

No, Cruz is one of them.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:40pm PT
Cruz should scare the crap out of you, TGT. That guy's loonier than a crankloon.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 22, 2015 - 12:50pm PT
Exactly how so?

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 01:05pm PT
Hillary or Bern win in a walk over Trump. He is a side show attraction for greedy bigots and racists.

But it is sad that US politics has become so dyfunctional that anyone would see Trump as an alternative to business as usual. Shame on the US Congress. They are arguing over the arrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 01:05pm PT
Crankster wrote
These are the folks that want to make the Bible the law of the land.
I'd like to see the source and quotes for that.
Sounds like government coercion.

Folks have different views on government coercion:

"Since government is coercion, politics is largely the exercise of deception regarding the intended use of coercion"
George Orwell

“Never underestimate the coercive power of the central state in the service of good.”
Jerry Brown, 2015.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 01:05pm PT
Well, TGT, I looked up a bunch of examples of his crazy-talk, then realized they sound a lot like your crazy talk. So I gave up, seeing the pointlessness of this errand.

Hopefully Cruz will get the nod. That'll make Hillary a shoo-in.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 22, 2015 - 01:07pm PT
Quote of the day:

Shame on the US Congress. They are arguing over the arrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic.

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 01:13pm PT
Hey,
Where's the captain of the Titanic?





"Fore!"
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 22, 2015 - 01:31pm PT
Hillary or Bern win in a walk over Trump.

Not so sure, but for purposes of argument, let's take it as a fact.

Another fact is, Trump has exposed some issues the next President - whoever it is - will need to deal with. Not just sweep under the rug or try to shout them down. Deal with them head on. Or he/she, will be unable to govern. The situation we are in now.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 22, 2015 - 01:43pm PT
So the same "progressive" Jacobins don't like Cruz's religion and can't come up with anything substantiative.

(Other than that they are exactly the kind of bigots they accuse everyone else of being.)
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 01:52pm PT
I agree John. Trump has exposed the fact that there are a lot more frustrated, marginalized right wingers than we thought. If they don't get their way for a third straight presidency, they will probably radicalize. The new president will now have jihadies and facists to deal with.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 01:56pm PT
Another fact is, Trump has exposed some issues the next President - whoever it is - will need to deal with. Not just sweep under the rug or try to shout them down. Deal with them head on. Or he/she, will be unable to govern. The situation we are in now.


To the extent his supporters are motivated by economic concerns, I wholeheartedly agree.

But what if they really are attracted to his bigotry and racism?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 02:11pm PT
TGT, Cruz has a history of melodramatic end-of-times rhetoric, and has backstabbed lots of people for the sake of his own agenda.

See? I told you you wouldn't see anything weird about that.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 02:12pm PT
"Trump has exposed the fact that there are a lot more frustrated, marginalized right wingers than we thought. "


Really? I thought the TeaBaggers did that years ago.


It would be interesting to see how many self-identified TeaBaggers are avid Trumpsters.
Barney Rubble

Trad climber
ALAMEDA
Dec 22, 2015 - 02:16pm PT
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
 Neil deGrasse Tyson


"The good thing about being a republican is that you can believe in things whether they are true or not."
 Donald Trump

If he didn't say it, he certainly lives it :-)
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 22, 2015 - 02:22pm PT
Seriously guys, among the typical dem constituents-government employees, unionized public school teachers and top heavy administrations, African americans, undocumented Hispanic democtrats, ex felons, rapists, murderers, politicians not currently incarcerated, gang bangers, Islamic terrorists, drug dealers, welfare queens, unemployed, the falsely disabled, crony capitalists, banksters, actors/actresses of low intelligence, pedophiles, beastiality practictioners, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, trisexuals, transexuals, white trash, socialists, communists, rabid enviros, retards, and the insane-who among them are going to be enthused about turning out to vote for the lying old bag of gas the Hildabeast. Hell, given his sexual assault record even her husband apparently didn't choose her.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 02:37pm PT
So what's the alternative, Rick? It's gotta be a Dem, as far as I'm concerned.

I'd vote for Bernie if I thought there was a chance he'd win.

The other Party? I laugh robustly!
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 22, 2015 - 03:10pm PT
EdwardT: In still trying to figure out what you are whining about. Are you trying to say that it's perfectly OK for Daesh to massacre Muslims (the vast majority of their victims), but it's ONLY worthy of our concern when they target Christians?

I sure wish Trump's Fascists in training had instead evolved far enough to develop the decency to expend their energies to forge a better world for future generations of human beings. Instead, he and his supporters choose to spend their time jerking off on their precious guns and behaving with the merciful instincts of a starving pack of hyenas, baying mindless hatred towards anyone inconsiderate enough to be neither white nor an advocate of their twisted interpretation of the teachings of Christ.

And yet these vicious thugs still lack the balls to admit that the very existence of the Statue of Liberty is an abomination to their most cherished beliefs.

The eyes of the entire world are on the United States, and good people across the globe are gazing in horror and disbelief that white trash like Trump wasn't immediately laughed off the political stage when he crawled from the darkness to announce his candidacy for the most powerful political office on planet Earth.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Dec 22, 2015 - 03:13pm PT
Well, at least we know now that God is on Ted's side. This guy is scary.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 22, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
The eyes of the entire world are on the United States, and good people across the globe are gazing in horror and disbelief that white trash like Trump wasn't immediately laughed off the political stage when he crawled from the darkness to announce his candidacy for the most powerful political office on planet Earth.


Stewert.... we are a democracy, anyone who is eligible, can run for the presidency.....and you can't be laughed off of the political stage, just because SOME do not approve.

Figured you being a Canadian, might not understand this very simple fact of USA politics.

Back to shouting
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 03:31pm PT
John Duffield wrote:
Trump has exposed some issues the next President - whoever it is - will need to deal with. Not just sweep under the rug or try to shout them down. Deal with them head on.

The self promoting Carnival Barker does bring up some excellent points from time to time.

Stewart wrote:
The eyes of the entire world are on the United States, and good people across the globe are gazing in horror and disbelief that white trash like Trump wasn't immediately laughed off the political stage when he crawled from the darkness to announce his candidacy for the most powerful political office on planet Earth.

This guy said it better than me:
"When we are born we get a ticket to the freak show. When we are born in America, we get a front row seat."
George Carlin
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 22, 2015 - 03:38pm PT


Stupid Canadien farmer STEWARD
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 22, 2015 - 03:43pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
Seriously guys, among the typical dem constituents-government employees, unionized public school teachers and top heavy administrations, African americans, undocumented Hispanic democtrats, ex felons, gang bangers, welfare queens, the falsely disabled, crony capitalists gays, lesbians, transexuals, white trash, communists, rabid enviros, and the insane-who among them are going to be enthused about turning out to vote for the lying old bag of gas the Hildabeast.

Your list mistakenly omits pedophiles, sheepf*#kers, glue sniffers, and shoe re-solers.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
Ya know, his depth of support might be greater than we'd like to believe.

There is some evidence that a lot of trump supporters won't admit to supporting him when polled because they are embarrassed. I'll try to find a link that describes the evidence for this.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 22, 2015 - 04:32pm PT
Yes, I mentioned it yesterday, the figure, is 6%. Increase in - People that support Trump, when they can do it anonymously. Obama needs to address some things.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 04:37pm PT
So is Trump your guy, guyman?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 22, 2015 - 04:40pm PT
Thanks Dirt. Fixed.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 04:48pm PT
Yes you did John--my mistake.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 22, 2015 - 04:52pm PT
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.

Dec 22, 2015 - 03:10pm PT
EdwardT: In still trying to figure out what you are whining about.

Whining? Thanks for keeping it civil.

Are you trying to say that it's perfectly OK for Daesh to massacre Muslims (the vast majority of their victims), but it's ONLY worthy of our concern when they target Christians?

No. (Edited for Saggy Uterton)

Why would you ask the first part? What have I said to give the impression I think "it's perfectly OK for Daesh to massacre Muslims"?

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 04:57pm PT
Trump/Palin...the dream ticket
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 22, 2015 - 05:08pm PT
So is Trump your guy, guyman?

App.... My eyes are wide open at this point....

I have said before, I will not vote for a Bush or a Clinton, unless Bill can run again, he is a smart political animal and did a fine, well OK, job as pres.

I have my own set of standards and things I look for before I cast my lone secret vote.

I will tell you some of them......

I'm very pro-choice ..... Any clown who thinks we will go back to the dark ages, forgetabout it. But I am also a states rights person and I accept just what that means: eg, some states might put more restrictions on abortion...and cause I am for states rights, I will accept a states right to do so, also if a state wants to legalize all and any drugs... that is a state rights issue.

So people like Cruz, Christie, Fiorina.... well no way, not from what I have heard from their lips.

Military Spending..... we need to stay strong, but blowing the budget on some of these futuristic weapon systems will be a stupid waste of money.... lots of money. An example of this is the DoD instance of a replacement for the Warthog. I ask why? That is exactly the sort of thing that is very useful for todays military... just build some brand new ones, the R&D is already done. Same with the B52.. yea its a 50 year old plane, but it still can do the job.

I could go on and on about what I look for, it might surprise you some...

But the election is almost one year away. Lots will happen between now and then.




BIG EDIT: For clarity and the record.







climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Dec 22, 2015 - 05:26pm PT
App.... My eyes are wide open at this point....

But your brain is apparently incapable of intelligent thought if you are considering Trump.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 22, 2015 - 05:37pm PT
Guyman: I understand how it goes, and that even Fascists - look it up - are permitted to run for office in the United States. What you appear to be too shallow to care about is that any signs of human compassion are absent in Trump's platform, and this causes civilized people across the entire planet to rightfully view his candidacy with horror and disgust.

Far better people than you fought and died to rid the world of the kind of moral cancer that Trump is attempting to inflict upon the soul of the United States electorate and, by extension, the rest of the world. He and his supporters dishonour the sacrifice of the Allied forces during World War Two.

Pyro - I saw that photo the first time, and I guess you're still too much of a wimp to come out and admit that you intend to vote for Trump. If you cared about how the Nazis rose to power, you'd understand that Hitler's thugs got the largest number of votes in the last free German elections of the '30s - then he levered this advantage to get himself appointed dictator. It's only slightly more complex than this, but even so, I doubt that you have either the intelligence or human decency to care about additional facts.

By the way, Hitler didn't see much of a need for secret ballots - or ballots at all for that matter.

This isn't a disagreement about whether or not it's OK to rap bolt - people die when azzholes end up in the Oval Office. The last time a gang of venal, murderous thugs took over the presidency, Bush and his buddies literally (in the dictionary sense) destroyed the entire nation of Iraq without the slightest justification and over 100,000 Iraqi civilians (by conservative estimates) died - not to mention legions of U.S. and other coalition troops.

And... the war crimes committed by the Bush White House directly led to the formation of ... Daesh! ( AKA ISIS)

So, how come none of you guys are man enough to admit that the Statue of Liberty stands proudly against everything that piece of genetic garbage with the hideous hair proudly champions?
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 05:38pm PT
mere coincidence that this ended up here, but it had to go somewhere, eh?



I'd never heard of this guy until a couple days ago.

Maybe y'all crybabies should go and have a beer with one another.



http://drinkingmadeeasy.com/booze-in-the-news/zane-lampreys-top-25-beer-cities/
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Dec 22, 2015 - 05:42pm PT
Stewart..

Far better people than you fought and died to rid the world of the kind of moral cancer that Trump is attempting to inflict upon the soul of the United States electorate and, by extension, the rest of the world. He and his supporters dishonour the sacrifice of the Allied forces during World War Two.

PROUD!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 22, 2015 - 05:47pm PT
I'm quite enjoying watching the GOP in a slow-motion collapse/implosion.

Dave Frum, a long time conservative columnist had a good piece in the Atlantic this week about it:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/the-great-republican-revolt/419118/
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 06:05pm PT
"But I am also a states rights person..."

So how about an individual rights person?

Like the right to make choices about your own body?

Surely a good Republican can get behind the inalienable right we have over our own bodies?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 06:19pm PT
I'm very pro-life..... Any clown who thinks we will go back to the dark ages, forgetabout it. But I am also a states rights person and I accept just what that means: eg, some states might put more restrictions on abortion...and cause I am for states rights, I will accept a states right to do so, also if a state wants to legalize all and any drugs... that is a state rights issue.

So people like Cruz, Christie, Fiorina.... well no way, not from what I have heard from their lips.

Military Spending..... we need to stay strong, but blowing the budget on some of these futuristic weapon systems will be a stupid waste of money.... lots of money. An example of this is the DoD instance of a replacement for the Warthog. I ask why? That is exactly the sort of thing that is very useful for todays military... just build some brand new ones, the R&D is already done. Same with the B52.. yea its a 50 year old plane, but it still can do the job.

Pretty much agree with this stance. Especially the A-10. The Air Force (whose been trying to nix the A-10) should give these over to the Marines.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 06:25pm PT
So how about the whole concept of individual rights, blue?

Like the choice over our own bodies?

Why is that so hard for Republicans to understand, when it comes to this issue?

Must be the infiltration of the Religious Right. Totally corrupted the concept of conservative.

Time for a little 'Restoring Conservatism', donchathink?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 22, 2015 - 06:46pm PT
Wow.... first off I really brain farted when I wrote Im Pro-life.... But Im at home and can't edit, till then I am on the record as Pro-choice. ..... everybody got that. Sorry Blue, I think that Women should have the right to decide that question 100% of the time.

Stewert.... I don't need a GD lecture from you OK. I find the way you talk down to people to be most off-putting. Are you like that in the flesh? Do you walk around at the crags telling every one how they are wrong and you are right?


And to El cap... thanks for the link. The Republicans have been in trouble for a long time now with people like me. They don't know it YET.

One thing I do find attractive about the Donald is this... The verbal diarrhea he spouts makes ALL political professionals cringe. Right now I think that is a good thing, lets talk about things that all the politicians do not want to talk about.... get it on the table, rub your face in it- there are many issues we Americans have been avoiding for years and now is the time to work this stuff out.

edit for clarity... ill change it for real when I get back to the other system.

Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 22, 2015 - 06:47pm PT
Dave Frum, a long time conservative columnist had a good piece in the Atlantic this week about it:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/the-great-republican-revolt/419118/

Very good article and analysis. TFPU.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 22, 2015 - 06:48pm PT
When is someone a human being?

If you stab a pair of scissors in their neck as the head breaches or crush their skull with forceps to make removal of the "tissue mass" easier, were they human beings with all of their inalienable rights at that point?


There's plenty of room for a discussion on where life begins, but it's moot to the "progressive" Jacobin that believes all of his rights emanate from the permission of the state.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 22, 2015 - 06:50pm PT
climbski2: You have every right to note with pride the sacrifice of U.S. forces in the defence of freedom during WW II.

Your best and brightest honoured the spirit of your Founding Fathers, and your President was easily the most humane and effective leader of your nation during the entire 20th century.

Edit:

TGT: Can you provide verifiable proof that your horrific allegations are considered legal in the U.S. or, for that matter, anywhere in the civilized world?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 22, 2015 - 07:01pm PT
Werner is just noting the obvious.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 07:10pm PT
Wow.... first off I really brain farted when I wrote Im Pro-life.... But Im at home and can't edit, till then I am on the record as Pro-choice. ..... everybody got that. Sorry Blue, I think that Women should have the right to decide that question 100% of the time.


I am indeed personally pro-life, but that has a lot of meanings to different people. I think a woman should be able to have an abortion if she chooses, but I don't think Federal money should be used towards it. That should be left up to States to decide.

Remember that issues not specifically enumerated in the Constitution are left up to the States to decide. The Constitution mandates that very clearly.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Dec 22, 2015 - 07:11pm PT
The verbal diarrhea he spouts makes ALL political professionals cringe. Right now I think that is a good thing

Uhhh no..that's just a by product of the fact that the sh#t he spouts is so f*#king vile even they think it's pretty bad.

Apparently you have set your bar far to low.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 22, 2015 - 07:18pm PT
I don't think Federal money should be used towards it.

Well, happily for you, post Hyde-amendment (passed in 1976!) the only time federal money can cover abortion services is in the cases of rape, incest, or imminent danger to the life of the mother.

Do you oppose these cases? Or do you think poor women should be forced to carry the children of their rapists, or die in childbirth?

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 22, 2015 - 07:20pm PT
One thing I haven't seen overtly mentioned, is the issue that is so often raised that there is not really a choice.

Well, Trump is not like anyone else, and he is definitely a DIFFERENT choice (probably since Perot).

I suspect that there is a faction, and it is probably not tiny, that would vote for him for just this reason.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 07:23pm PT
Do you oppose these cases?

No. But I wonder how this is enforced, seems impossible. Maybe that's how it passed, everybody got their name on the bill but knew damn well it was almost impossible to enforce.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 22, 2015 - 07:24pm PT
I am indeed personally pro-life, but that has a lot of meanings to different people. I think a woman should be able to have an abortion if she chooses, but I don't think Federal money should be used towards it. That should be left up to States to decide.

The problem with that concept is that we are talking about a Constitutional Right, as confirmed many times by the Supreme Court.

Does that mean that different states would be free to discriminate against, for example, Christians? Could a particular state decide, for example, that one must be a Mormon to run for public office?

Or to own land?

Or to own firearms?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 07:33pm PT
Does that mean that different states would be free to discriminate against, for example, Christians? Could a particular state decide, for example, that one must be a Mormon to run for public office?

No. It just would not be funded by the State. Want an abortion? Pay for it yourself (or with your insurance).

Without a consequence to aborting little babies, these 'clinics' really do become abortion mills.

I can't believe this issue comes up every election...The law is pretty much settled, we're just discussing things we'd LIKE to see, that'll probably never come to fruition. It's a tired subject.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 08:01pm PT
"When is someone a human being?"

Well, as far as your Party is concerned, when they are white, male, Christian, and preferably gun-toting, too.

Everybody else gets the sloppy seconds.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 08:04pm PT
these 'clinics' really do become abortion mills

That's the way they're portrayed in a certain segment of the news media but
some of my wife's retired cohorts have done or do volunteer work at Planned
Parenthood and I can assure you in no uncertain terms that the vast majority
of what goes on there is bread and butter women's' health, KNOTT abortions!
Don't make me bring a speculum to ram down yer throat! ;-)
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 22, 2015 - 08:06pm PT
I can't believe this issue comes up every election...The law is pretty much settled

When your side stops trying to reverse that settled law through incrementalism that prohibits it in practice, then people might stop bringing it up. There are countless examples, as recently as this year, one being the Texas bs that would have eliminated 3/4 of the providers in the state.

You have a significant arm of the conservative moment that actively attempt to "unsettle" that law, it's a large and active group within the GOP and movement conservative types. And that's besides the more rabid among them that promote the murder of doctors.

These same nutjobs promote abstinence only sex-ed (all data shows it does not work...duh, how many of you weren't f*#king as a teenager?). They are "pro-life" until the kid is born, then "oh you need some food? well sorry we're cutting food stamps so you better hope the local private charity deems you worthy".
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 22, 2015 - 08:14pm PT
guyman: Sure you do and, no, I don't make a habit of "talking down" to people at the crags or elsewhere. I'm usually quite mild mannered unless something pisses me off big time.

What I am attempting to accomplish here is make it clear to people that are willing to even consider Trump as anything more than a contemptible lump of protoplasm masquerading as a human being that life is serious business, and that an evil blowhard like him in the Oval Office is going to result in untold suffering to millions of innocent people. This is is simply WRONG, especially for people who dare to label themselves as Christians.

Furthermore, if elected, Trump seriously expects that he can construct a fence along the southern border and expect to stick the Mexicans with the bill, he is insane. This kind of breathtaking arrogance defies rational belief.

And there are people on this forum who are seriously considering voting for this prick? It's my job as a human being to at least throw the occasional fact in their direction.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Dec 22, 2015 - 08:30pm PT
Dave Frum, a long time conservative columnist had a good piece in the Atlantic this week about it:

To fully understand David Frum's positions, it helps to understand his heritage. There are probably a few people here on ST who remember, as I do, his mother.

Barbara Frum was, in my opinion, the best serious radio journalist there has ever been. She's gone now, and her politics were different than her son's, but he has certainly inherited her ferocious intellect, and her intellectual honesty.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired Climber
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:11pm PT

Stewert.... I don't need a GD lecture from you OK. I find the way you talk down to people to be most off-putting. Are you like that in the flesh?

Well said.

What's your beef Stewart? You don't have a dog in this fight
I don't remember any of us telling you how f*#ked up Trudeau is.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:42pm PT
Cause when Canada F's up it doesn't usually cause the whole world major problems.

When the whole world especially allies hates a candidate and in unprecedented fashion says so very clearly...

Perhaps you should listen.

The only World leader who pretends to like Trump is a guy who has America's worst interests at heart...

Putin would clearly love to see Trump as president...

Yeah great idea folks.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:47pm PT
Cause when Canada F's up it doesn't usually cause the whole world major problems

How quickly we've forgotton the poor Harp seal pups, eh?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 22, 2015 - 09:57pm PT
Thanks climbski2 for saving me the trouble of pointing out the obvious to these rocket scientists.

Hey Reilly, we'll be happy to debate the harp seal outrage as soon as you explain what gave Bush and his thugs the right to completely destroy the entire nation of Iraq for absolutely no defensible reason and kill over 100,000 civilians.

And, Reilly, try to wake up enough brain cells to consider how YOU would feel if exactly the same stunt got pulled on the U.S.

Harp seals... is that all you got, Einstein?

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 22, 2015 - 10:15pm PT
Stewie, you need to breath into a paper bag for a while.
Maybe it will help yer reading comprehension.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Dec 22, 2015 - 10:45pm PT
thing is, imo, in this election cycle, the majority of this discussion is irrelevant.

even if the donald pulls off the republican nomination, i don't see any way for him to actually win the presidency...

and so what is more interesting to me, is not the phenomenon of the donald as an individual but rather the growing percentage of americans who his message resonates with [relative to what i'd argue are similar messengers in previous election cycles]...

and so from that perspective, all he represents in this cycle is a warning.

just like palin before him, i would argue that those of you who focus on the messenger miss the message.

and no, i don't claim to know exactly what that message is. hahaha.

while there are the usual suspects regarding the message [the loss of trust by the lower and middle classes, the end of the white majority in america, the growing divide between the haves and the have nots, a fragmented world where information is no longer point sourced and so on and so forth] i don't know that it is as simple as any one thing and i also don't know if it is purely rooted in aspects that have measurable metrics.

being forthcoming, i suspect it is rooted in something deeper and is grounded in the death throes of a once contextually powerful expansion based philosophy outgrowing its usefulness in a continually evolving world.

regardless, what i do know is that if the message isn't listened to, someday someone with a more effective voice, a more consistent history and a more powerful political acumen is going to take advantage of the unconscious roots of this message for their and their allies own power.

and given what is being swallowed and taken seriously by a large number of people when it is coming out of the mouth of a person as compromised [from a political history perspective] as trump is, that is the real concern.

if you thought palin was and think that trump is, a joke, i'd have to agree.

they are.

but if you don't see that the growing number of people subscribing to this incredibly intelligence belittling and emotionally caustic version of politics, do have legitimate beefs with the system, then you're missing the point [imesho]...



trump is a joke.

the soil he's seeding is not.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 22, 2015 - 10:45pm PT
"She's gone now, and her politics were different than her son's..."

Tell me more. I only know David Frum, and have appreciated his rational, well-articulated positions, free of the ranting hyperbole that defines the GOP of late.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Dec 22, 2015 - 10:59pm PT
trump is a joke.

the soil he's seeding is not.


So very true...

But, the soil that Bernie is seeding is also not a joke.
A dynamic conflict, opposites.

The faster we go the rounder we get.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 23, 2015 - 05:14am PT
Larry posted
You may disagree with my perspective of "Black Lives Matter".
You obviously don't know what is truly in my heart.

I don't question what is in your heart, I question your willingness to listen and accept the experiences of the BLM movement. Undermining the validity of civil rights protests by disagreeing with inflammatory rhetoric or claiming that its partisan is a strategy to maintain the status quo that dates back at least to the 60's and probably further. You'll note that BLM would be more than happy to accept the resignation of the Democratic mayor of Chicago.

Remember that institutional racism does not require that a single person be "racist." It only requires that people be willing to keep the system running as it is. "I know in my heart that I'm not racist so if someone thinks my opinions/actions are racist it's because they are wrong" is not a valuable attitude. We are all complicit in a racist system.



On a related note, this has been one of the safest years to be a police officer since they started keeping records.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 23, 2015 - 07:31am PT
HDDJ wrote"
I question your willingness to listen and accept the experiences of the BLM movement.

You post some good stuff but among a few others on politard threads, the ad hominems, hyperbole, strawmen and misrepresentations of opposing views is a common tactic.
They could help their own credibility with a little less arrogant condescension on opposing views.
I am not a Trump guy, but people that find a little something in his message are not evil people.

I would call my position on "Black Lives Matter" one of semantic principal.
I think all lives matter.
I also know that inner city minorities are suffering inconveniences, indignities, sometimes wrongful arrests and even being beaten or shot for relatively minor offenses.
This has to be worked out between each community and their police departments.
The awareness, the discussion, the solutions are good for everyone.
Just ask the president's buddy Rahm in Chicago.


EDIT:
Someone mentioned this article earlier. A good one
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/the-great-republican-revolt/419118/
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 23, 2015 - 09:23am PT
nahOOO..... very well said.

Larry, HDDJ... El Cap...Rilley, Bluey, Goast, Wabler and even Stewart.

good contributions all... Thank you for not a cut n paste long political article but a discussion from the heart.

USA presidential elections are not supposed to be quiet affairs. If they ever become so... then we are screwed.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 23, 2015 - 09:30am PT
bluering posted
Without a consequence to aborting little babies, these 'clinics' really do become abortion mills.

And this is based on your long history of working in the health care field? Many states have a very small number of facilities that are willing to perform the procedures at the prices many woman can afford. This means that they perform a high volume of the procedures and other facilities (most Planned Parenthood clinics for instance) refer patients wanting abortions to those "approved" facilities. There isn't a "consequence" because it's constitutionally protected legal procedure.

Are you seriously advocating that people be punished for exercising their constitutional rights, bluering?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 23, 2015 - 12:12pm PT
There isn't a "consequence" because it's constitutionally protected legal procedure.


You're not serious, are you? Having to pay for your abortion is constitutionally protected?
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Dec 23, 2015 - 12:21pm PT
just like palin before him, i would argue that those of you who focus on the messenger miss the message.

and no, i don't claim to know exactly what that message is. hahaha.

Agreed. Obama should be clearing the way for Hillary by getting at some of it right now. Ignore the message and she will be unable to achieve consensus.

I put the surprising part of the message into two basic areas. There may be more.

1. Who knew this Political Correct speech was stirring up so much resentment? But it seems to be. People are tired of getting shouted down for an unPC word or phrase.

2. The increase in Muslim immigration. Not even a blip after 9/11, but it's finally on a lot of peoples radar right now. I don't think they can even measure it. But Trump is getting too much support, to be merely disaffected white males. There's some other unknown constituencies.



Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 23, 2015 - 12:40pm PT
Ok, so I was a wee bit off when I wrote this:

They are "pro-life" until the kid is born, then "oh you need some food? well sorry we're cutting food stamps so you better hope the local private charity deems you worthy".

But only a wee-bit. To wit, from today's paper:



A cafeteria worker in an Idaho middle school said she was fired for giving a free meal to a student who told her she was hungry and didn't have money to pay for it, The Idaho Statesman reported Wednesday.

Human resources for Irving Middle School in Pocatello sent Dalene Bowden a termination letter that stated she was fired for stealing school district property and for inaccurate transactions in serving food, according to the report.

Bowden told the newspaper that she offered to pay $1.70 for the 12 year-old student's meal, but her supervisor declined the money.

Those god@#%$ TAKERS, making our jorb creators cry. Little rug rat fkers should either get a job or starve. That's what RepublicanJesus and the free market demand!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 23, 2015 - 01:17pm PT
2. The increase in Muslim immigration. Not even a blip after 9/11, but it's finally on a lot of peoples radar right now. I don't think they can even measure it. But Trump is getting too much support, to be merely disaffected white males. There's some other unknown constituencies.

Must be some pretty terrific radar. The entire Muslim population of the country stands at .6%
It could double to no real demographic effect.
Look for the little skinny green line. I need my reading glasses to see it.
There are more Buddists here.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 23, 2015 - 01:53pm PT
A cafeteria worker in an Idaho middle school said she was fired for giving a free meal to a student who told her she was hungry and didn't have money to pay for it, The Idaho Statesman reported Wednesday.

Human resources for Irving Middle School in Pocatello sent Dalene Bowden a termination letter that stated she was fired for stealing school district property and for inaccurate transactions in serving food, according to the report.

Bowden told the newspaper that she offered to pay $1.70 for the 12 year-old student's meal, but her supervisor declined the money.


worth re posting....

This is a good example of just how F$%Ked up we have become, as a nation and a society, on so many levels.. :>(
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 23, 2015 - 02:05pm PT
Unfortuntately Guy, that's the second story like that I've seen this year.

Here's one from June in Colorado:

Della Curry, a cafeteria worker in an elementary school in a Denver suburb, has been fired for giving free food to students who didn't qualify for the federal free lunch program.

The mother of two admitted to KCNC-TV, which first reported the story, that she violated school policy by giving the free meals but said that she didn't want to see the children go hungry. She's hoping her case will change district policy.

"I had a first grader in front of me, crying, because she doesn't have enough money for lunch. Yes, I gave her lunch," Curry told the station. "I'll own that I broke the law. The law needs to be changed."


Have people lost their damn minds? You're going to starve some poor kid, when I know good and well they throw out a lot of food in public schools?

I'm not kidding when I say the GOP are pro-life...but only from conception to birth, after that...good luck. I remember forgetting lunch money a few times as a kid, they just wrote it down on a ledger and you made it up later.

This is the Teabagger/libertarian/Ayn Rand austerity pimps policy in action. Makes me feel physically ill.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Dec 23, 2015 - 02:19pm PT
Bring on the chump,
as he will expose us
as to what we really are.

As a side note,
abortions should
be free and paid for
by the government.

2 many mookaloons!
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 23, 2015 - 02:35pm PT
El cap..... I wish I had the answers to these problems. It would be helpful to know some of the back story.

Kids are our future, none should ever go hungry.

Is it because of the FEDERAL part of the school lunch programs?

Or

Local A-hole, petty HR person? Weak ass principle of the school who will not tell HR person to take a hike.

Or

something else?

I know someone who works in the cafeteria at the local elementary school. She says they carry out almost full trashcans to dump every afternoon.

sad

tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 23, 2015 - 02:37pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 23, 2015 - 03:02pm PT
If you folks enjoy reading Frum, you might also check out Daniel Larison of The American Conservative magazine. This is a "paleo-con" mouthpiece, linked to Pat Buchanan. Larison strikes me as more intellectually honest than Frum (and much more informed in foreign policy too).

He writes on the election stuff, but probably a little more on foreign policy. AmCon is fairly reliably isolationist/ "we're not the world's police", which is close to where I stand.

Frum gets about 85% of the way there in being honest, but just can't help himself in propping up BS talking points at least once or twice in every piece. I'll be reading along thinking "finally, an objective and honest conservative" and then he drops a stinker that I know is false and misleading. I want to like him, but can't, because I know he is smart enough to know better.

Anyway, I think people get way too caught up in personalities, when they should be focused on the likely policy outcomes. I don't have to live with Hillary, I don't care if she's "fun to have a beer with". At this point, with RBG getting up there in age, my vote is all about supreme court appointments. And with Alito, Scalia, and Uncle Tom, we can't afford anymore nutjobs. So I'll vote Dem, regardless who is carrying their banner.
Binks

climber
Uranus
Dec 23, 2015 - 03:13pm PT
Of all the candidates I like Trump the best, and I have never voted for a Republican presidential candidate. Hillary is soulless, Bernie falls flat.

I might just vote for Trump. At least he isn't afraid to speak. It will be business as usual with the others, which sucks.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 23, 2015 - 03:17pm PT
Della Curry, a cafeteria worker in an elementary school in a Denver suburb, has been fired for giving free food to students who didn't qualify for the federal free lunch program.

Be interesting to see why they didn't qualify for the program, I'm sure the bar is pretty low.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 23, 2015 - 04:01pm PT
Reilly: Not hyperventilating yet. Perhaps you can help me out by explaining the deep insight of yours that snuck by me.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 23, 2015 - 04:34pm PT
Of all the candidates I like Trump the best


I'm with you, binks

can't see why more people just don't see things as clearly as you and I do
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 23, 2015 - 04:36pm PT
Obviously we'll know much more after Iowa and New Hampshire.

IMHO, here's how the candidates shape up so far...

Republicans...

Trump: I'm still not convinced he's a serious candidate or just an egomaniac who luvs being in the spotlight. His popularity is more a reflection on the sad state of American society than anything else. Clearly he's the Republican Party Bosses' biggest nightmare and a god send for Hillary, especially if he becomes the republican nominee.

Carson: not sure if he's a serious candidate either or just trying to sell books. Who could have ever imagined a presidential candidate who tried to convince everyone that he really did go after his mother with a hammer? Fortunately he has no charisma. He puts everyone to sleep and has no chance of being the republican nominee.

Cruz: intelligent, articulate, & dangerous. Scares the sh*t out of me as Commander-in-Chief with his "I don't know if sand can glow in the dark, but we're going to find out!" rhetoric. He could win the nomination, especially if Trump self destructs. My guess is that Cruz is in this for the long haul and hopes to pick up voters from other candidates (Rubio, Carson, Fiorina, Bush) when they drop out.

Rubio: less articulate than Cruz but slightly more charismatic. Still too young and inexperienced to topple the other front runners. This is probably not his time. Little to no chance of winning nomination.

Fiorina: can't open her mouth without distorting the truth. Had to make a dog video to show she has a human side. She has no chance.

Bush: who would've thought George was the smart one? ;-( Unless a video comes out showing Trump and Cruz having sex with animals or buying oil from ISIS, I think Jeb is done.

Paul: neo-libertarian but he's 100% against abortion...go figure? I like some of his stances on foreign policy but I don't think he has a chance of winning the nomination.

Democrats...
Hillary: neo liberal, capitalist who will likely continue to cater to wall street, banks and financial institutions, and do little to alter the trend of growing income inequality. She will likely continue Obama's Drone war policy and may even be more hawkish on regime change in the middle east. Unless she does something incredibly stupid, she will be the democratic candidate and likely the next president.

Sanders: self-proclaimed democratic socialist...that's with a small "s" The only candidate who seems to give a rat's ass about working class people and wants to reverse the trend of income inequality. He appears to be the only candidate who is willing to stand up to large corporations and financial institutions on behalf of the less privileged amongst us. For these reasons, unfortunately, he has almost no chance of becoming president ;-(
doughnutnational

Gym climber
its nice here in the spring
Dec 23, 2015 - 04:45pm PT
Be interesting to see why they didn't qualify for the program, I'm sure the bar is pretty low.
It really doesn't matter if they did or did not qualify or why the parent failed to provide food for their children. The kid was at school and he was hungry so give them a lunch. If it's a persistent problem contact the parents/cps.

Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Dec 23, 2015 - 04:57pm PT
Elcapinyoazz,

How dare you pollute this thread with that vanilla flavored truth crap!

Oh look...There's a right leaning, normal person spraying readonable analysis- STOP!

Please take that mundane, sense making sh#t the fuk outta here. How can I hate you if your not going to dole out smelly piles of hyperbole and lies?

Ditto for you- Tuolumne_tradster
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 23, 2015 - 05:02pm PT
Blue, it's kind of beside the point why the kid didn't qualify. If your boy forgot his lunch money, or some other kid stole it off him, would you want him to go hungry or stand there crying in shame just because you happen to have an above min wage job and don't qualify for assistance? Those are the Tea Party values in action.

You want to know the stds, they are easy enough to find, they're published in the federal register every year. For 2015/16, and one kid it's ~$20k income, and increase roughly by 5k for each kid. So if you are a single parent and have two kids, you need to make under 25k household income for them to qualify for free lunch. (Actually 26,117, just looked it up)

Here ya go:

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2015-03-31/pdf/2015-07358.pdf


The conservatives to love to fall back on "well private charities should provide those things, not the govt". This one really pisses me off, because it's about them being able to cast moral judgments on who is worthy of assistance.

That is a very dangerous road to go down, letting mob mentality decide those things, and that's what you end up with. "Sorry, we're a christian charity, no food for muslims!", or "Oh, you're homosexual, no help for you it's against our beliefs".

Don't think that would happen? Add the fact that govt can provide stable funding sources, whereas charities finances could swing all over the place. "Oops we ran out of money, I guess no lunch for you kiddies until next fiscal year".
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Dec 23, 2015 - 05:07pm PT
If DT is elected as president, I predict mass recession greater than that of the Great Depression because so many of us will be fired.

There will be bread and circus lines in all towns across the county.

These circuses will have only one ring, featuring the Amazing Donald.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 23, 2015 - 05:10pm PT
Thank you Contractor...I appreciate it. I think I'll go hang out on the Bernie thread now ;-)
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 23, 2015 - 05:54pm PT
The conservatives to love to fall back on "well private charities should provide those things, not the govt". This one really pisses me off, because it's about them being able to cast moral judgments on who is worthy of assistance.

That is a very dangerous road to go down, letting mob mentality decide those things, and that's what you end up with. "Sorry, we're a christian charity, no food for muslims!", or "Oh, you're homosexual, no help for you it's against our beliefs".

Don't think that would happen? Add the fact that govt can provide stable funding sources, whereas charities finances could swing all over the place. "Oops we ran out of money, I guess no lunch for you kiddies until next fiscal year".

You talk about being pissed.

Do you have actual examples of those kinds of discrimination? If so, please provide links.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 23, 2015 - 06:14pm PT
Blue, it's kind of beside the point why the kid didn't qualify. If your boy forgot his lunch money, or some other kid stole it off him, would you want him to go hungry or stand there crying in shame just because you happen to have an above min wage job and don't qualify for assistance? Those are the Tea Party values in action.

It wouldn't bother me too much. You miss lunch one day? Go hungry? You're really trying to use children to pull on heart-strings it seems. Providing a bologna sandwich is not expensive at all.

You want to know the stds, they are easy enough to find, they're published in the federal register every year. For 2015/16, and one kid it's ~$20k income, and increase roughly by 5k for each kid. So if you are a single parent and have two kids, you need to make under 25k household income for them to qualify for free lunch. (Actually 26,117, just looked it up)

That seems fair enough. Question remains why this child's parent couldn't qualify for the program, and if it's because she is over 'the bar', she should be providing a lunch, or buying the meal-card like we do. It's like a debit-card system where you throw money in and your child is debited when they BUY a lunch.

My position is that we need to be careful when we start handing out free stuff every time someone 'wants' something. Even children. If it's an ongoing problem with a particular kid, that's different. Parents need to be talked to, and maybe bring in CPS if all else fails. (CPS usually makes families worse off though).

Everyone is starting to think they're entitled to certain things. This is not healthy for a society. It breeds dependency and lethargy.

I know it sounds mean, maybe it is. But you know me well enough, I'm an independent conservative who identifies more with the Tea Party (smaller gov't, lower taxes, less bailouts) than the establishment Republican party (people like Jeb and Rubio).
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 23, 2015 - 06:22pm PT
It's

GOVERNMENT!

that accuses someone of theft and fires them for feeding a hungry child.

not a private charity.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 23, 2015 - 06:29pm PT
Question remains why this child's parent couldn't qualify for the program, and if it's because she is over 'the bar', she should be providing a lunch.

Are you really this dense? I don't know how to make it any simpler for you to understand, this isn't about "qualifying" or a parent providing lunch. It's about a kid forgetting or losing their lunch money and being left to go hungry and be ridiculed by their peers out of some as#@&%e's misguided sense of "becoming dependent on the govt" or "lookin' for a handout".

But thanks for proving my point about teabaggers wanting to cast their moral judgements in deciding who is or isn't worthy of assistance.

Hey Sketch/Skipt/DonaldThompson/EdwardT/whatthefukeveryournextmonikerwillbe ?

Google is your friend.

Catholic Charities in Illinois continues to make news in the wake of the state's passage of the Religious Freedom Protection and Civil Union Act, which granted Illinois' same-sex couples some state-level relationship recognition. They already made good on their threat to pull out of foster and adoption services in three diocese so far over the contention they did not want to place children with "same-sex or unmarried couples." Catholic Charities has now filed a lawsuit looking to get a blanket "religious exemption" under state law in how they administer their services.

At the heart of the issue is the over $30 million dollars that Catholic Charities receives from the state of Illinois for foster care and adoption services. This effectively moves them from a private faith-based organization, which does have built-in religious exemptions as the name of the civil unions law implies, to an administrator of state-funded public services. They are essentially acting as an agent of the state.

In the suit, Catholic Charities for the dioceses of Springfield, Joliet, and Peoria claim that their state-funded adoption services are exempt from the civil unions law under existing state religious freedom protections, despite the public funding of those services. Anthony Riordan, chief operating officer of Catholic Charities of Peoria, laid it out plainly:

"I think it's certainly a reasonable point: If you receive state funds, you have to follow the directives and the rules of the state. But our position is that faith-based charities have religious liberties and certain rights of conscience."

So although they are acting as an arm of the state and providing a state-funded service in the public sphere, they are looking to be able to pick and choose who they provide that service to based on their religious dogma, not state law. This is a radical new expansion of religious exemptions that creates many troubling issues.

The most obvious issue is the use of public funds to discriminate against a swath of people protected by civil laws. By taking more than $30 million dollars in tax money, Catholic Charities enters the realm of state-sponsored public services, not a private religious organization. By allowing the church to ignore the laws of the state in the public sector while using state funds, it in essence uses tax dollars to discriminate.


http://www.salon.com/2011/06/08/catholic_church_discrimination_open2011/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/waymon-hudson/illinois-catholic-charities_b_874370.html
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 23, 2015 - 06:55pm PT
blueringworm: yeah - you're right. You're a mean-spirited jerk at the best of times.

Perhaps you can tell me what's going to happen if your house catches fire. Let me guess... a bunch of Tea Baggers are going to come over and put it out, right?

And countless hordes of the bad guys invade the U.S.? Of course, the Tea Baggers will be out there defending the United States, especially while they simultaneously & courageously defend the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

Highway cloverleafs start collapsing? Natural disasters? Tea Baggers to the rescue again.

About the only time you hypocrites stop whining about cultures of dependence is when the the 1%ers need more string-free cash from the Federal Government instead of the lengthy prison terms that their greed so richly deserves. The money that you and your ilk has stolen from U.S. taxpayers amounts to TRILLIONS of dollars, and you haven't done an atom of good for average U.S. citizens in return.

You speak from both sides of your face - on one side, you figure it's perfectly defensible to punish the needy by piling up even more misery upon their powerless heads and, on the other, it's an obligation to give the already obscenely wealthy all the money they want without the slightest government oversight.

Something tells me that you've never looked into the eyes of someone in need and felt even a flicker of compassion for their plight, Blueringworm. You should be hanging your head in shame whenever you meet someone less fortunate than you.

Oh, yeah - still getting the "mucho pussy" you were bragging about?


EDIT: TGT - how are you doing with locating credible sources for your horrifying description of a routine abortion?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 23, 2015 - 06:56pm PT
Are you really this dense? I don't know how to make it any simpler for you to understand, this isn't about "qualifying" or a parent providing lunch. It's about a kid forgetting or losing their lunch money and being left to go hungry and be ridiculed by their peers out of some as#@&%e's misguided sense of "becoming dependent on the govt" or "lookin' for a handout".

Going without lunch for a day will not do any harm. Maybe even teach the kid a valuable lesson or two. Also, you can not give a free lunch to every child that claims to be hungry. It will get out of control with very bad consequences for those that do things the proper way.


But thanks for proving my point about teabaggers wanting to cast their moral judgements in deciding who is or isn't worthy of assistance.

Who should decide?
Are those currently making the judgement doing a good job?

As for moral 'judgements', you never make any? I know you do, you just disagree with mine. That's o.k. by me. And I never even chimed in on the charities, I'm just talking school lunches (and the scores of other even more unworthy gov't hand-outs that get abused).
John M

climber
Dec 23, 2015 - 07:01pm PT
get a grip Stewart. Blue isn[t a bad guy.

It will get out of control with very bad consequences for those that do things the proper way.

No it won't Blue. Its not really that hard to determine who really needs help and who doesn't. And if you make a few mistakes, its not that big of a deal.

The schools could have easily dealt with this. Firing someone over this is kind of sad. I worked in a restaurant in high school. Every week we had people coming in asking for food. The restaurant just had a rule that front line employees couldn't make the decision, a manager had to be called in. That solved 99.999 percent of the problems.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 23, 2015 - 07:03pm PT
Stewart, everything you listed is what the Fed/State is actually tasked with handling through our tax-dollars. Mostly because they don't want us to do those tasks ourselves.

As for compassion and giving? I just bought a homeless dude a Denny's dinner Monday night. He didn't ask for it either, was just using the Denny's waiting area to warm up.

I give to other charities too, after I investigate to see how much they actually spend on their cause.

edit: I agree somewhat, John, but it seems the gov't actually encourages people to accept gov't aid of one form or another. I'm talking mostly food-stamps.

I can tell you a story of a proud Mexican co-worker (born there, but he's a citizen now) who had to yell at his wife because certain groups were insisting she accept food-stamps, "they're free, why don't you take it?"

He's makes enough to get by with his 3 kids and wife, and refuses to take hand-outs from the gov't. That, my friend, is a proud man with some self-respect and dignity. He's really cool too.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 23, 2015 - 07:29pm PT
Hey Sketch/Skipt/DonaldThompson/EdwardT/whatthefukeveryournextmonikerwillbe ?

Google is your friend.

Thanks for that one example.

And thanks for not responding with petty snark.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Dec 23, 2015 - 08:17pm PT
The belief in one's own ethnic superiority and privilege always seems to cause problems. When the Nazis had this attitude, it was a catastrophe. It's a primitive, barbaric belief that, for the good of the planet as a whole, must be eliminated. Among its many problems, it leaves under-informed people easy prey for seriously disturbed, ultra-wealthy predators.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 23, 2015 - 08:32pm PT
Stewart,
I only sense the independent, sometimes cantankerous, critical thought of self motivated climbers, from the full political spectrum, on this forum...
that's the kind of people I don't like to call names.
It's Christmas season. Peace.
Larry
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 23, 2015 - 08:38pm PT
tuolumne_tradster
Hey, that's a pretty good breakdown on all the candidates.
Don't underestimate Rubio.
If she doesn't misstep, the establishment has greased the skids for Hillary.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 23, 2015 - 09:37pm PT
If she doesn't misstep, the establishment has greased the skids for Hillary.

Yes, I agree, because there is really very little difference between republicans & democrats anymore and Hillary poses little threat to the 1% privileged class, corporate america, or global capitalists.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 23, 2015 - 09:43pm PT
Wait, tradster....

Are you saying the Donald is a threat to the 1% privileged class, corporate America, and business capitalists?

He IS all of those
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 23, 2015 - 09:57pm PT
Sorry if you don't share my opinion of blueringworm. My social conscience is clear, and I have the certificates and letters of thanks to justify it, and unlike this "nice guy", I oppose mean-spirited political dogma that only adds to the misery of those less fortunate than myself. What I don't do, however, is judge the disadvantaged since I've heard verifiable stories from many of these human beings that would make a statue cry.

It's an unfortunate fact that some people just aren't made of the kind of bulletproof psychological resiliency that allows them to weather adversity without some kind of assistance to get them back on their feet. Stripping the poor of the last remaining rags of their dignity is a guaranteed no-win proposition, and advocating that kind of self-righteous social policy is not the behaviour of nice people.

"Mucho pussy" doesn't feel that it is necessary to provide a single word to criticize the 1%ers who are scamming the U.S. taxpayers for a fuk of a lot more than baloney sandwiches or food stamps. How come he isn't enraged by the mountains of free money shoveled into the insatiable craws of these obscenely wealthy parasites who are shamelessly and indisputably stealing government revenue from average taxpayers.

The 1%ers, however, are the people who are pulling the strings of the Tea Party.

I note that blueringworm blithely blows off government expenditures on defence, public safety, infrastructure as merely things that government (as in the elected representatives of the people) don't want Tea Baggers to do instead. Actually, that's exactly what government is supposed to do, along with many other things to serve the needs of the electorate.

Isn't the United States formed on the basis of the belief that it is ruled by a "government of the people, for the people, and by the people?"

Those people don't live on Wall Street, guys.

tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 23, 2015 - 10:07pm PT
Are you saying the Donald is a threat to the 1% privileged class, corporate America, and business capitalists?

Not really but perhaps some of the 1% perceive him as more of a threat than Hillary. As president, Trump would be a complete embarrassment on the international stage and he's just too unpredictable. Hillary is more credible as president and she would still maintain the global capitalist establishment, including the corporate interests that profit from perpetual military conflict. Trump says he would "bomb the sh*t out of ISIS" & build the strongest military the world has ever known but he's proud of being against the 2003 Iraq invasion. What is Trump's ideology? So far, it seems that he's just feeding an insatiable ego. I'm still not completely convinced that Trump is not a Democrat mole ;-)
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Dec 23, 2015 - 10:17pm PT
Oh, look. The "as#@&%es against hungry kids" group is rallying around Trump.

Didn't see that one coming.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 23, 2015 - 10:20pm PT
But thre tradster lining up for Hillary was no surprise?

Both sides know he's the best chance for any democrat.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 23, 2015 - 10:31pm PT
Not sure I follow you Lorenzo. Are you saying that a Trump Republican nomination will ensure a Hillary victory in 2016? If so, I agree. I'm NOT a fan of the Clintons. I favor Bernie because he's the only candidate supporting working class Americans.

[edit] I'm afraid that a Clinton-Sanders ticket will mean that many of Bernie's ideas (increasing minimum wage, socialize health benefits, strict regulation of financial institutions, etc) will never be realized.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 23, 2015 - 10:35pm PT
Not sure I follow you Lorenzo. Are you saying that a Trump Republican nomination will ensure a Hillary victory in 2016? If so, I agree.

Yup. It would insure a win if Soupy Sales were the Dems nominee.

And he's dead.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 23, 2015 - 10:45pm PT
Si Lorenzo...estamos en la misma pagina ;-)
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 23, 2015 - 10:51pm PT
Jim Brennan: yes, what kind of country do we live in where someone is punished for demonstrating some compassion?

Why is it easier for us to imagine a bolide impacting the earth and ending our existence than it is to visualize a future with a more egalitarian, socio-economic system?

Why do so many Americans value greed over compassion?
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 23, 2015 - 11:53pm PT
Yes DMT, they need some Aussie family values ;-)

[Click to View YouTube Video]
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 24, 2015 - 08:09am PT
Si Lorenzo...estamos en la misma pagina ;-)


Lorenzo is an Italian name, not Spanish. Just sayin'...

"Siamo su la stessa pagina", would be more apropos.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 24, 2015 - 08:31am PT
Primaries are right around the corner. I hope more top Conservatives follow George Will's lead.

George Will is warning that if the GOP nominates Donald Trump for president, it would be the "end" of the Republican Party.

“Conservatives’ highest priority now must be to prevent Trump from winning the Republican nomination in this, the GOP’s third epochal intraparty struggle in 104 years,” he writes in a new Washington Post column Thursday.

The conservative columnist says preventing Trump from winning the nomination should be an even higher priority than denying the Democratic Party a third term in the White House.

“One hundred and four years of history is in the balance. If Trump is the Republican nominee in 2016, there might not be a conservative party in 2020 either.”

Will pans the GOP front-runner as a “fundamentally sad figure,” arguing that he has every “disagreeable human trait.”
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 24, 2015 - 08:47am PT

Dec 24, 2015 - 08:09am PT
Si Lorenzo...estamos en la misma pagina ;-)


Lorenzo is an Italian name, not Spanish. Just sayin'...

"Siamo su la stessa pagina", would be more apropos.

Haha. Two things...

1) Lorenzo is actually from Latin - in reference to a saint. Spanish has about 60% of its words from Latin and several Roman emperors (Trajan, Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius,) were in fact from Hispania.
Lorenzo is an Italian and Spanish masculine given name of Latin origin. It is used in Italy, Spain, and other Spanish-speaking countries. The name was derived from the Roman surname Laurentius, which meant "from Laurentum".
The town's legendary founder was Picus and legend has the king Latinus as an early king. The language takes its name from him.
It's sort of moot anyway. Sardinia and the Italian peninsula south of Gaeta (aka the Kingdom of the two Sicilies) was ruled by Transtamara, Habsburg, and Borbone Arragone-Spain for 400 years, so....Spanish. For a time Spain also ruled Laurentum. Look up the etymology of the Spanish ( not Italian) name Cayetano. Two Spanish sailors of that name sailed with Columbus.

2) Argentina is an Italian country that speaks Spanish with an Italian accent. The single largest immigrant group is Italian ( largely Southern Italy). The current President's parents were Born in Italy (father) and of Spanish descent ( mother).
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 24, 2015 - 09:02am PT
Edward, George Will is an establishment hack. Of course the Republican party is in danger, and Will rightfully fears this.

The Republican party is no longer based on strict conservative values, they only talk about them when they need something (like getting elected).

This is why the Tea Party arose, and why so many registered Republicans (who really are conservative) despise the likes of Jeb Bush. The republican party is dying because of the Republican establishment, the elites, who taken their base for granted and crapped all over them.

No more. Trump, Cruz, and Carson reflect what everyday conservatives feel and want back. This is why the Repub establishment attacks Trump and Cruz so much, they fear them. And they should.

EDIT: Touche, Lorenzo. I used to live in Italy where Lorenzo is quite a common name. Never heard a South/Cental American named Lorenzo.

I'll take your word for it. My bro's name translates to Lorenzo (Larry, or Lawrence).
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 24, 2015 - 09:18am PT
George Will is a hack and a liar (witness any of his idiocy on climate change), but he's not really off base on that one.

I think it may be too late. GOP created this frankenstein monster of a base, and now they can't control it. They finally started to realize this when Cantor got ousted by a Teabag challenger. They will hold the state/local stuff a while longer, due to low turnout in off-presidential election years, but demographics are going to get them in the end. You can't be the party of angry white male privilege and xeonophobia in a time when we're headed to majority minority.

The sheer short-sightedness of these folks is amazing to me. We have a problem, along with most of the western first world, with a baby-boomer age wave that will radically decrease the worker-retiree ratio, and in turn put strains on medicare/ss etc. So in my view we NEED immigrants, young ones. And a lot of them. But the GOP base view them as leeching welfare "takers" rather than positive additions to the workforce, or as "stealing our jorbs". Really? You middle aged white folks plan on roofing some houses, working chicken houses, or landscaping any time soon? Unlikely.

Critical thinking skills are in short supply among their base.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 24, 2015 - 09:58am PT
Don't go quaking on about us all not thinking clearly. I've got it. Up is now down, white is now black, and the new Amerika is green.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 24, 2015 - 10:08am PT
EDIT: Touche, Lorenzo. I used to live in Italy where Lorenzo is quite a common name. Never heard a South/Cental American named Lorenzo.
.

The famous Habsburg Royal palace outside Madrid is called San Lorenzo Del Escoreal.

Also, one of the top 3 football clubs in Argentina ( Papa Francisco's club and currently in second place ) is San Lorenzo de Almagro.

They recently announced they will name their new stadium after him.


Donald Trump has declared he wants to buy the team.( no way in hell)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2556881-donald-trump-reportedly-wants-to-buy-pope-supported-football-club-san-lorenzo


Footballer Javier Mascerrano was born in San Lorenzo, Santa Fé.


The second highest peak in the Patagonian Andes is Cerro San Lorenzo (Cockrane).


Then there is Lorenzo Lamas, who's father was Argentine Fernando
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 24, 2015 - 10:56am PT
I think it may be too late. GOP created this frankenstein monster of a base, and now they can't control it. They finally started to realize this when Cantor got ousted by a Teabag challenger.

The Dems have created they're only little monsters too, but Cantor, Boehner, and McConnell are what is wrong with the Repub party in the eyes of what you would call the radical base (that includes myself). What you and others call 'radical', I call call a somewhat strict adherence to conservative principles, and almost never compromising those principles.

The sheer short-sightedness of these folks is amazing to me. We have a problem, along with most of the western first world, with a baby-boomer age wave that will radically decrease the worker-retiree ratio, and in turn put strains on medicare/ss etc. So in my view we NEED immigrants, young ones. And a lot of them. But the GOP base view them as leeching welfare "takers" rather than positive additions to the workforce, or as "stealing our jorbs". Really? You middle aged white folks plan on roofing some houses, working chicken houses, or landscaping any time soon? Unlikely.

A couple of things. If our lousy Federal gov't had managed Social Security the way it was designed, we would not be looking at as great of a problem. Secondly, we're not xenophobic. That's like calling opposition to radical Islam, Islamophobic. It's a ploy the liberals use to try to add a label to somebody, to demonize them.

We're neither. When it comes to low-skill labor, we are fine with having some foreigners come, as long as it's done LEGALLY. The higher-skill jobs like IT/Engineering, should only be done on the basis of whether or not an American citizen is available to do that job already. That's the way it's supposed to work right now, but Bill Gates, Zuckerburg, and other heads of companies seem to be getting around this unchecked. They're hiring Chinese and Indian workers to replace Americans.

Critical thinking skills are in short supply among their base.


That's not fair at all. I know you think every conservative is a maroon, but let's be careful before we paint with broad brushes. The same can be done with liberals.

EDIT: Lorenzo, I stand corrected. I thought Argentina had some Portugese ancestry, but maybe I'm thinking Brazil? Interesting about Argentina though!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 24, 2015 - 11:02am PT
What you and others call 'radical', I call call a somewhat strict adherence to conservative principles, and almost never compromising those principles.

Pretty much the definition of radical.

rad·i·cal
ˈradək(ə)l/
adjective
1.
(especially of change or action) relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something; far-reaching or thorough.
"a radical overhaul of the existing regulatory framework"
synonyms: thoroughgoing, thorough, complete, total, comprehensive, exhaustive, sweeping, far-reaching, wide-ranging, extensive, across the board, profound, major, stringent, rigorous
"radical reform"
2.
Advocating or based on thorough or complete political or social reform; representing or supporting an extreme section of a political party.
"a radical American activist"
synonyms: revolutionary, progressive, reformist, revisionist, progressivist; More
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 24, 2015 - 11:08am PT
Bluering, your lack of knowledge is showing. The "management" of Social Security has not changed since its inception.

Directly from the SSA:
------------

Q1. Which political party took Social Security from the independent trust fund and put it into the general fund so that Congress could spend it?

A1: There has never been any change in the way the Social Security program is financed or the way that Social Security payroll taxes are used by the federal government. The Social Security Trust Fund was created in 1939 as part of the Amendments enacted in that year. From its inception, the Trust Fund has always worked the same way. The Social Security Trust Fund has never been "put into the general fund of the government."

Most likely this question comes from a confusion between the financing of the Social Security program and the way the Social Security Trust Fund is treated in federal budget accounting. Starting in 1969 (due to action by the Johnson Administration in 1968) the transactions to the Trust Fund were included in what is known as the "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget. This is sometimes described by saying that the Social Security Trust Funds are "on-budget." This budget treatment of the Social Security Trust Fund continued until 1990 when the Trust Funds were again taken "off-budget." This means only that they are shown as a separate account in the federal budget. But whether the Trust Funds are "on-budget" or "off-budget" is primarily a question of accounting practices--it has no effect on the actual operations of the Trust Fund itself.
------------


If you want to be taken seriously in these kind of discussions, you're going to need to develop some actual knowledge, and not just repeat bunk teabag talking points. You're revealing yourself as one of the easily duped rubes. We have a demographic issue, not a management one (unless you view rich people not having to pay SS taxes on their income above $118k as a "management" issue)
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 24, 2015 - 11:50am PT
EDIT: Lorenzo, I stand corrected. I thought Argentina had some Portugese ancestry, but maybe I'm thinking Brazil? Interesting about Argentina though!

Brasil is Portuguese in origins. Parts of NE Argentina Close to the border speak some Brasilian. The two languages are pretty much mutually intelligible.
I have no problem understanding it.
(Portuguese, BTW, is really the form of Spanish spoken in Galicia and Asturias, in NW Spain. It was the only part of Spain the Moors never conquored, and It migrated South with the expulsion of the Moors ( reconquista). )
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician-Portuguese


And when Argentina was first settled and during the time of the Spanish Armada, Philip II, The king of Spain was also the King of Portugal. His uncle was holy roman Emperor. Between 1554 and 1558, Philip II was also King of England and Ireland through his marriage to Mary I.
He built the Escoreal.
Both Royal houses originated from the house of Transtamara. (Ferdinand and Isabella's families. Ferdinand was also nephew of Habsburg holy Roman Emperor and his son Charles V inherited that throne. Isabella was descended from Catherine of Lancaster)

Argentina and Brasil both fought over Uruguay for a time. You may be thinking of that. NE Uruguay speaks both languages.
The Brasil football team kit was designed by a Uruguayan.
It is still known in Argentina and Uruguay in literature as the Eastern province.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 24, 2015 - 12:22pm PT
The Trump Campaign was awarded 2015 Lie of the Year by Politifacts...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/dec/21/2015-lie-year-donald-trump-campaign-misstatements/

This will undoubtedly (& sadly) improve his poll numbers because, as we all know, facts don't matter and Politifacts is a highly biased, left wing organization, dominated by liberal ideology ;-(


Lorenzo: I grew up hearing Argentine spanish from my Dad (he was born & raised in Rosario) and Castilian Spanish from my Mom (who was raised in Salamanca). When I was at my Abuelita's house in Oakland, she would listen to news on the radio in Portuguese (which I could not understand at all). As you say, Argentine Spanish is spoken with an Italian accent, so the "ll" = y sound is replaced by a "j" sound.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 24, 2015 - 12:38pm PT
and the way the Social Security Trust Fund is treated in federal budget accounting. Starting in 1969 (due to action by the Johnson Administration in 1968) the transactions to the Trust Fund were included in what is known as the "unified budget." This means that every function of the federal government is included in a single budget. This is sometimes described by saying that the Social Security Trust Funds are "on-budget." This budget treatment of the Social Security Trust Fund continued until 1990 when the Trust Funds were again taken "off-budget." This means only that they are shown as a separate account in the federal budget. But whether the Trust Funds are "on-budget" or "off-budget" is primarily a question of accounting practices--it has no effect on the actual operations of the Trust Fund itself.

This is what I was referring to. And if it's coming from the SSA, I ain't really buying the notion that they haven't included it in their 'budgets', or, are spending it (borrowing it with no real plan to pay back).

Sure it will be paid to boomers, but the stuff I've been putting in is in doubt. Millennials, good luck!

And if the population is ever expanding, why is there some doubt about liquidity? There should be MORE input into the SSA. Sure the boomers are a big demographic, but the population has increased too. They should offset, no? Unless there is a lot of the population that doesn't pay into SS.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 24, 2015 - 12:51pm PT
And if the population is ever expanding, why is there some doubt about liquidity? There should be MORE input into the SSA. Sure the boomers are a big demographic, but the population has increased too. They should offset, no? Unless there is a lot of the population that doesn't pay into SS.


That is right, there is a large and growing segment of the population that does not pay into SS: RETIRED PEOPLE.

There are now more Americans age 65 and older than at any other time in U.S. history. According to a new Census Bureau report, there were 40.3 million people age 65 and older on April 1, 2010, up 5.3 percent from 35 million in 2000 (and just 3.1 million in 1900).

"The population age 65 and older has increased notably over time," says Carrie Werner, a Census Bureau statistician and author of the report. "It is expected to increase more rapidly over the next decade as more baby boomers start to turn 65 in 2011."

The 65-and-older population jumped 15.1 percent between 2000 and 2010, compared with a 9.7 percent increase for the total U.S. population. People age 65 and older now make up 13 percent of the total population, compared with 12.4 percent in 2000 and 4.1 percent in 1900.

http://money.usnews.com/money/retirement/articles/2012/01/09/65-and-older-population-soars
perswig

climber
Dec 24, 2015 - 12:56pm PT

'nuff said.
Dale
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 24, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
^^^
Blue, just stop digging. You don't have a basic understanding of the federal budget and appropriations process, nor the demographics and relevance of worker to retiree ratios.


The "crisis" in SS that the con-bags scream about means...gasp..it could continue to pay something like 77% of benefits in perpetuity (go look it up, it's in the 70s, I don't recall the exact % off the top of my head). For us Gen-X, for Millennials, and onward, it is basically ok. Of course the con-bags solution is to either cut benefits or increase the retirement age. Because you know, making rich people pay ss tax on all their income ( like you and i do), that's just "punishing success" or somesuch bullsh#t. Nevermind that those same rich people are the only ones who've benefited from our country's success in the last 40 years, wages for us peons are flat to down over that time.


That chart is male wages indexed for inflation since 1979. See the blue line? That's about where you and I are....losing ground. The orange line that's reaping the benefits? Yeah, that's the top 5%.

You know a lot of 70yr olds who can still do hard manual labor? Not everyone has an indoor desk or workbench job, working into your late 60s or 70s isn't realistic for a lot of professions.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 24, 2015 - 01:09pm PT
Bluering, you have confused accounting for money, as taking money.

So, for example, if the SS program shows an excess in a particular year, and the defense dept shows a deficit, that does not mean the money is shifted from the SS to the DOD. There is a total at the bottom, which adds them together, to give you an idea of the overall financial situation, but it DOES NOT IMPLY and has never resulted, in an actual shift of dollars.

You don't shift money by simply listing it in a table of assets and debits, which is basically what a budget is.

Take a family, for example. The want to create a budget that includes all assets and debts. The adult debt, such as the house, car and credit cards, exceeds all the savings, which includes the child's saving account for college.

BUT JUST LISTING IT DOES NOT MEAN THE MONEY WAS SHIFTED FROM THE CHILD TO THE CREDIT CARD COMPANY. It is only being accounted for!
Norton

Social climber
Dec 24, 2015 - 01:25pm PT
Unless there is a lot of the population that doesn't pay into SS.

actually, Bluering is correct about that

for example, social security is not taken out of paychecks for people who make
over 118,000 a year, that amount over 118K is not subject to SS, as Medicare IS

doing so would indeed put a lot more money into the SS trust fund

another big thing congress could do is to pass a simple law that denies SS benefits to the wealthy, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet don't "need" SS do they?

point is, Bluering is right, SS is fully solvent and can pay full benefits for at least another 10 years of so according to the latest estimates

and just a couple of easy fixes like suggested above makes SS solvent for many more years

SS's long term ability to pay full benefits to younger people like Bluering is easy to fix,
and because there is no emergency right now that legislation will have to just wait
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 24, 2015 - 01:49pm PT
Lorenzo: I grew up hearing Argentine spanish from my Dad (he was born & raised in Rosario) and Castilian Spanish from my Mom (who was raised in Salamanca). When I was at my Abuelita's house in Oakland, she would listen to news on the radio in Portuguese (which I could not understand at all). As you say, Argentine Spanish is spoken with an Italian accent, so the "ll" = y sound is replaced by a "j" sound.

Yeah, lots of the other Argentine Castellano differences can be traced to Italy, including that the RR sound isn't a trilled R in the northwest, but rather a SHH sound. Some of the differences are Basque or Andalusian, though. People on the fringes are the ones who came to the new world. Castilians had in good in Spain.

I spent a year in Spain during college in the Franco era. If I want to make my Argentine friends giggle, I do the Madrid Castillian Th sound for Esses.

Then there's Buenos Aires Lunfardo in a lot of tango lyrics, which is a whole different deal.
Think jailhouse cockney. I can never keep up with the latest slang.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 24, 2015 - 02:08pm PT
point is, Bluering is right, SS is fully solvent and can pay full benefits for at least another 10 years of so according to the latest estimates

and just a couple of easy fixes like suggested above makes SS solvent for many more years

They could start by paying back the money and interest that was taken out of the fund to pay for the Gulf wars.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 24, 2015 - 02:09pm PT
The best Spanish I heard during a month in Argentina was from one of those
bowler hat wearing ladies from up by Bolivia. She was a cabbie in Ushuaia!
And she was the best driver we had, by far, in that month! She was the only
cabbie who didn't lug her poor car to death. HaHaHaHa!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 24, 2015 - 04:33pm PT
Most of the bowler hat ladies speak Aymara or Quechua

Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 24, 2015 - 05:04pm PT
It's reassuring to know that "patriots" like mucho pussy, er blueringworm and his Tea Baggers are so eager to build a better U.S. that they can conveniently continue to ignore the plundering of TRILLIONS of tax dollars from the public purse by Wall Street greedheads and their 1%er clones. Instead, they focus their hateful invective upon those least capable of defending themselves from this Fascist onslaught unleashed upon them by these sleazy hustlers masquerading as politicians.

Not a word from him or any of his buddies about the implications of the plans of Trump and other lunatic Republicans to rip the Bill of Rights into confetti, nor a comment about Tea Bagger feelings regarding the words inscribed at the site of the Statue of Liberty - words that hundreds of thousands of REAL U.S. patriots gave their lives to defend.

Also, there isn't a single word from mucho pussy about Trump's threat to build a fence along the entire Southern border AND stick the Mexicans with the bill. That's called an act of war, in case it hasn't occurred to anyone - and I can guarantee U.S. citizens that erstwhile allies across the planet will go apeshit if this kind of breathtaking aggression turns into a reality. Of course, Daesh (AKA ISIS) will be dancing in the streets.

This is not a debate about climbing ethics. As climbers, we are entitled to agree to disagree about such matters - that's part of the attraction of this lifestyle. Politics is completely different, and these thugs mean business. The successful election of Trump or any of his Tea Bagger buddies is going to represent a metaphorical drop-kick to the nuts of the Democracy envisaged by the Founding Fathers of the United States of America.

Tea Baggers have earned the contempt that is unleashed upon them. Their sick agenda is focused upon the destruction all that is kind and gentle in the United States, and they must be stopped at the polls while it is still possible for U.S. citizens to vote in free elections.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 24, 2015 - 05:59pm PT
Rest easy, Stewart. We have them outnumbered.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 24, 2015 - 06:06pm PT
We have them out numbered.


true that there are more people who identify as Democrats than Republicans

but the Dems problem is getting their people to actually get off their asses and vote

which they bother to do only in the every four year Presidential election

being a registered Republican in my state I get communication urging me to vote

I have friends who are registered Democrats and they tell me they get no communication at all

who's "fault" is that? Explain why Republicans have the edge in the off year elections
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 24, 2015 - 08:36pm PT
Stewart,
Your ad hominems are not winning the debate.
Bluering has a different perspective than you, but he is taking the high road and is showing some grace.
You could learn at least that much from him.

Edit:
Still, wishing you a Merry Christmas
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired Climber
Dec 24, 2015 - 09:16pm PT
Heard a report today that trumps support may be bigger than thought. this support is from closet democrats.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 24, 2015 - 10:17pm PT
crankster: let's hope so, and Merry Xmas.

Larry Nelson: I don't believe that Fascists ever walked the high road or ever will. Thanks for your kind wishes though, and Merry Xmas to you.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 24, 2015 - 10:18pm PT
Is Donald Trump leading the GOP down a death spiral?

BY GEORGE KOO on DECEMBER 24, 2015 in AT OPINION

I believe what happened to the Republican Party in California bears relevant lessons for the GOP, and if unheeded, will mean a disastrous outcome in the coming presidential election and for a long time to come.

If California, heretofore a trend-setting state, indeed portends the future of the national GOP, this is what they can look forward to. In California, the Republican Party has not won any of the statewide offices since Arnold Schwarzenegger left the governor’s office.

There hasn’t been a GOP-elected candidate to the US Senate since Pete Wilson resigned in 1991 to become governor. Democrat Dianne Feinstein won his seat to join incumbent Democrat, Barbara Boxer. They have been the only senators from California ever since.

From the GOP side, the only candidates for Senate with the credentials to win the approval of the extreme right wing of the state can win the GOP primary but they are not electable. Candidates with moderate credentials that stand a fighting chance in the general election can never get past the primary.

In 1994, Pete Wilson faced with a difficult re-election campaign took on a strong anti-immigrant position and vigorously supported Prop 187, a proposition denying services to illegal immigrants.

Wilson found the formula to win his re-election but inflicted a long-term injury on his party. Today, nearly three quarters of the Hispanic voters identified the state GOP as anti-immigrant and voted for the Democrats. A three-to-one edge on 22% of the electorate in California has been and will continue to be a formidable hurdle facing any GOP aspirant for statewide office.

Despite his outrageously irresponsible remarks, Donald Trump continues to lead the polls among the GOP presidential candidates. If he does become the standard bearer for the 2016 election, it’s certain that Trump’s anti-immigrant, racist statements that won him the primary will backfire on him in the general election. Trump’s bigotry will come back to bite him in the rump and the consequences will be even more painful for the Republican Party.

According to Los Angeles Times and other pundits, the eventual GOP nominee will need to win almost half of the Hispanic votes to win the general election. With Trump leading the ticket, it would be the same as the proverbial fat chance.

According to a recent fact checker compilation in the New York Times, Ben Carson and Trump led the pack of GOP nominees in making false statements; as much as 80% came out of their mouths as lies. (The Democratic candidates were more modest and lied less than 30% of the time.)

Of course, the more the eventual winning candidate had to lie his/her way to a winning nomination, the more undoing of the lies would be necessary in the general campaign. Some, such as the racist bigotry comments, will be indelible and not come out in the wash.

The analogy with California is that it may be necessary to take on extreme right-wing positions to lead in the polls and win the nomination. But the baggage Trump and others pile on in the race to the nominating convention may be impossible to disown in the general election.

Now fighting desperately just to win over one-third of the state legislature and keep the Democrats from a super majority, The Economist has dismissed the GOP in California as fading into irrelevance. Based on the way the primary contest has progressed so far, the national party appears to be on the same trajectory toward irrelevance.

Dr. George Koo recently retired from a global advisory services firm where he advised clients on their China strategies and business operations. Educated at MIT, Stevens Institute and Santa Clara University, he is the founder and former managing director of International Strategic Alliances. He is a member of the Committee of 100, the Pacific Council for International Policy and a director of New America Media.

The opinions expressed in this column are the author’s own and do not necessarily reflect the view of Asia Times.

(Copyright 2015 Asia Times Holdings Limited, a duly registered Hong Kong company. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.)
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 25, 2015 - 07:20am PT
Lorenzo, tradster,

I've been traveling to Brazil extensively for the past 10 years.
Many Argentine's vacation in Brazil and the young Argentine's go to Brazil for work.
It's interesting that Argentine's who have not studied Portuguese have trouble understanding Portuguese, but simple Brazilians can understand the Argentine's, no problem.
The phonetics of Brazilian Portuguese make the language very difficult to understand quickly.

Merry Christmas to all
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 25, 2015 - 09:21am PT
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 25, 2015 - 02:22pm PT
Language dialect thread drift...

Larry: interesting, thanks for sharing that.

I'm only semi-fluent in Spanish. I can read an understand Argentine or Castilian Spanish if it is spoken slowly. I really struggle to understand Mexican or Central American Spanish. I can pick up a few words in Italian but almost none in Portuguese.


My wife is German. She speaks Hochdeutsch but understands Bavarian dialect. I took her to see Nordwand, the German film about the tragic Eiger Northface attempt by Toni Kurz & Andreas Hinterstoisser. The German director selected a northern German to play Toni Kurz. As soon as he opened his mouth at the beginning of the film, my wife said out loud in the theater "He's NOT Bavarian!" :-)
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 25, 2015 - 04:59pm PT
Crankster,
That's your best post in a long time.
:-)

Tradster,
Great story.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 25, 2015 - 05:49pm PT
crankster: That's what it's ALL about. Congrats to both you and the creator of the strip.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 25, 2015 - 10:31pm PT
Tradster, what you posted about the need for the swing to the extreme is true, and I experienced it personally.

My former business partner was Keith Richman, MD, who was a three time Republican Assemblyman from Northridge. He was exceedingly popular in the LA area, known to be a centrist and pragmatist. He was socially mainstream, and realistically fiscally moderate.

In 2006 he sought the Republican nomination for California State Treasurer but lost to Board of Equalization member Claude Parrish 56%-44% in the primary. The issue was conservative purity. Parrish was clobbered in the general election. I think Keith would have had a real chance against Bill Lockyer. Many liberals liked him, and enjoyed working with him.

But he turned out not to be "pure" enough, and was willing to find middle course solutions.

That's the touch of death, now.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Dec 26, 2015 - 05:47am PT
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:07am PT
Looks like Europe is swinging towards the right as a result of migration issues. They're getting fed up.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/629022/EU-migration-crisis-far-right-parties-Europe-Germany-Sweden-France


A lot of it stems from migration foisted upon them, and many migrants unwilling to assimilate. Their social welfare benefits are being 'taxed' too.

And you wonder why Trump is so popular here?
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:27am PT
And what about the illegals Trump hires for his golf courses and hotels? Doesn't that contribute to immigration?
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:32am PT
Bring on duh chump.
Expose the fools
amongst us all.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:37am PT
Gary, I doubt very much that, if true, Donald is aware of this. Do you think he hires construction workers himself? It's actually kind a racist to assume that ALL people who do the building of things are illegals.

If it is true, then it lends more to the argument that illegals are taking construction jobs from American construction workers. There are a lot of Americans who still seek construction jobs, believe it or not.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:39am PT
Their social welfare benefits are being 'taxed' too.

Yeah, this is a ignorant myth perpetuated by nativist xenophobes (in the US anyway). Undocumented immigrants are a net positive contribution here. Some food for thought:

Here are myths about undocumented immigrants, and why they're wrong.

Myth # 1: They don't pay taxes

Undocumented immigrants are already U.S. taxpayers. Collectively, they paid an estimated $10.6 billion to state and local taxes in 2010, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), a research organization that works on tax policy issues. Contributions varied by state. In Montana they contributed $2 million. In California, more than $2.2 billion. On average they pay about 6.4% of their income in state and local taxes, ITEP said.

A 2007 Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report on the impact of undocumented immigrants on the budgets of local and state governments cited IRS figures showing that 50% to 75% of the about 11 million unauthorized U.S. immigrants file and pay income taxes each year.

A 2013 CBO analysis of the failed bipartisan bill introduced by the so-called "gang of 8" that would have created a path to legal status for many undocumented immigrants found that increasing legal immigration would increase government spending on refundable tax credits, Medicaid and health insurance subsidies, among other federal benefits. But it would also create even more tax revenue by way of income and payroll taxes. That could reduce deficits by $175 billion over the first 10 years and by at least $700 billion in the second decade.


Myth # 2: They don't pay into Social Security

The truth is that undocumented immigrants contribute more in payroll taxes than they will ever consume in public benefits.

Take Social Security. According to the Social Security Administration (SSA), unauthorized immigrants -- who are not eligible to receive Social Security benefits -- have paid an eye-popping $100 billion into the fund over the past decade.

"They are paying an estimated $15 billion a year into Social Security with no intention of ever collecting benefits," Stephen Goss, chief actuary of the SSA told CNNMoney. "Without the estimated 3.1 million undocumented immigrants paying into the system, Social Security would have entered persistent shortfall of tax revenue to cover payouts starting in 2009," he said.

As the baby boom generation ages and retires, immigrant workers are key to shoring up Social Security and counteracting the effects of the decline in U.S.-born workers paying into the system, Goss said.

Without immigrants, the Social Security Board of Trustees projects that the system will no longer be able to pay the full promised benefits by 2037.

Myth #3: They drain the system

Undocumented immigrants do not qualify for welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, and most other public benefits. Most of these programs require proof of legal immigration status and under the 1996 welfare law, even legal immigrants cannot receive these benefits until they have been in the United States for more than five years.

Non-citizen immigrant adults and children are about 25% less likely to be signed up for Medicaid than their poor native-born equivalents and are also 37% less likely to receive food stamps, according to a 2013 study by the Cato Institute.

A CBO report on the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007 concluded that a path to legalization for immigrants would increase federal revenues by $48 billion. Such a plan would see $23 billion in increased costs from the use of public services, but ultimately, it would produce a surplus of $25 billion for government coffers, CBO said.

Myth # 4: They take American jobs

The American economy needs immigrant workers.

The belief that immigrants take jobs that can otherwise be filled by hard-working Americans has been disputed by an overwhelming number of economic research studies and data.

Removing the approximately 8 million unauthorized workers in the United States would not automatically create 8 million job openings for unemployed Americans, said Daniel Griswold, director of the Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies, in his 2011 testimony before the House Judiciary Sub-committee on Immigration Policy and Enforcement.

The reason, according to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, is two-fold. For one, removing millions of undocumented workers from the economy would also remove millions of entrepreneurs, consumers and taxpayers. The economy would actually lose jobs. Second, native-born workers and immigrant workers tend to possess different skills that often complement one another.

According to Griswold, immigrants, regardless of status, fill the growing gap between expanding low-skilled jobs and the shrinking pool of native-born Americans who are willing to take such jobs. By facilitating the growth of such sectors as retail, agriculture, landscaping, restaurants, and hotels, low-skilled immigrants have enabled those sectors to expand, attract investment, and create middle-class jobs in management, design and engineering, bookkeeping, marketing and other areas that employ U.S. citizens.

Keep hating on the browns though, it's what Republican Jesus demands after all. I mean wasn't it Luke 137:67 where he said "F*#k them poor people, go forth and kick them while they're down"?

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:42am PT
I am not a Trump guy, but why is he leading in polls and why is he resonating with many good and decent people also?
A little devil's advocacy here for thought.

1: We have watched Obama's confusing and chaotic immigration policy where legitimate laws are ignored for PC purposes.
A legitimate question I have is: "Should we even have enforceable immigration laws and why?"
Anyone?
(My nephews are Mexican/American and many of my friends from South of the Border have stood in line for years to be legal)

2: We have watched Obama apologize for 7 years to the world for America's shameful behavior.
Dissing allies and bowing to tyrants. That can get old with even non-fanatics who love this country. Just sayin.

It seems these two themes ring true with many good decent people. Just my own anecdotal observation during conversations, including with minorities and democrats.


Trump is crude and likes to demonize his opponents, but ALL Trump supporters are routinely demonized and painted with incredibly broad brush strokes of evil behavior by media sources. Are every one of these supporters evil people?

Some tangents to the same issues: Cruz's children are depicted as Monkeys in a cartoon by a newspaper that routinely decries such things.
Now I'm not a Cruz guy either, but the pot calls the kettle what?

Tea Party types are schlonged by even media personalities (aka journalists) calling them, wink, wink, teabaggers.
Now I'm not a Tea Party guy, but this comes from unbiased journalists? And they get hypoxic over the word schlong?


Just my perspective that the low road is taken by both sides.
Let the food fight continue. Pass the popcorn.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:45am PT
If it is true, then it lends more to the argument that illegals are taking construction jobs from American construction workers.

Bluey, no illegal has ever taken a job from an American. They were GIVEN the job.

And I certainly do believe Trump knows what happens at the companies he owns.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:48am PT
Yeah, this is a ignorant myth perpetuated by nativist xenophobes (in the US anyway). Undocumented immigrants are a net positive contribution here. Some food for thought:

I was specifically talking our Europe's VERY generous welfare benefits.

Keep hating on the browns though, it's what Republican Jesus demands after all.

You really think I hate 'the browns'? This is the kind of rhetoric that makes me just want to walk away from these discussions. I'm a racist, a xenophobe, Islamophobic, or whatever... I'm none of those things, but it makes you feel better by branding people negatively.

Whatever...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 26, 2015 - 10:00am PT
Larry, c'mon...7 years apologizing? Sheesh. If you mean the rightwing who listen to nothing but conservative media, ok, they swallowed that lie.

You are also saying it's ok to support Trump, just ignore the racist, bigoted stuff and take his "good" parts. Sorry, you support him, you support the whole package.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 26, 2015 - 10:03am PT
Crankster,
Should we even have enforceable immigration laws and why?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 26, 2015 - 10:38am PT
Man, I sure hope Koo's piece becomes prophecy. More than anything, the GOP & America need to see the Republican Party take another long walk in the wilderness.

The last one didn't last very long, and they just came back, as stoooopid as ever.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 26, 2015 - 10:43am PT
Looks like Europe is swinging towards the right as a result of migration issues. They're getting fed up.

Blue, I will say that they, like you, don't seem to be much of a Christian, particularly on Christmas!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 26, 2015 - 11:00am PT
A little devil's advocacy here for thought.

1: We have watched Obama's confusing and chaotic immigration policy where legitimate laws are ignored for PC purposes.
A legitimate question I have is: "Should we even have enforceable immigration laws and why?"

2: We have watched Obama apologize for 7 years to the world for America's shameful behavior.

Larry, Larry.......

The reason the immigration laws are confusing is NOT the President, it is because Congress has refused to enact reasonable reform, even in the form created by Marco Rubio and the "Gang of Eight".

DO WE have enforceable immigration laws, right now? Well, under President Obama, FAR MORE illegal immigrants have been deported than under Repug admins. HUGE numbers more. Over the last couple of years, there has been a net EXPORT of Mexican nationals.

SOMEONE is doing some enforcing!!!

But you also conveniently ignore another part of the law, embodied in the Constitution: The President has an unlimited power to pardon anyone for any crime.....including immigration offenses. The reason the power exists is to allow miscarriages of justice from occurring.

Many people would consider that a child brought into this country illegally and then grew up, who has never known another country, should not be deported to a country that they've never known, and may not even know the language. Did the child even commit a crime? Could they have given consent, were they in a position to "decide"?

And then there is this repeated HORSESH*T about the President apologizing.
It's just a lie. I'm calling YOU out to provide some proof of all this apologizing. The generous explanation is that you are too stupid to realize that you have been propagandized. The less generous is that you know it is not true, and you're lying your ass off. But it is untrue in any case.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/romneys-sorry-apology-tour-dig/

Our fact-checking colleagues at PolitiFact and the Washington Post Fact Checker both pored over those speeches, and others, and wrote detailed analyses of the content of Obama’s words. Their conclusion: Obama never apologized.

We’ve read through the speeches as well. We’ve come to the same conclusion: Nowhere did we see that the president “apologized” for America. In some speeches, Obama was drawing a distinction between his policies and those of his predecessor, George W. Bush. In other instances, Obama appeared to be employing a bit of diplomacy, criticizing past actions of both the U.S. and the host nation, and calling for the two sides to move forward.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 11:07am PT
Well, under President Obama, FAR MORE illegal immigrants have been deported than under Repug admins. HUGE numbers more. Over the last couple of years, there has been a net EXPORT of Mexican nationals.

This is not true. They are playing games with words. I'll get you a source in while, I gotta get some woodworking gear for a project I'm working on.

They are not "deporting" more in the legal sense of the word, they are counting Border Patrol apprehensions and returns to Mexico/SA are deportations. They aren't.

The BP is trying to do it's job, but they have a pretty big task on their hands. This has little to do with Obama, or his immigration enforcement policies. (Same with Bush too).
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 26, 2015 - 11:46am PT
are not "deporting" more in the legal sense of the word, they are counting Border Patrol apprehensions and returns to Mexico/SA are deportations. They aren't.

They always have counted them that way.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 26, 2015 - 11:49am PT
Yep, and if you don't include simple returns to Mexico to be deportations, Bush II's record becomes especially dismal in comparison.

Who's the Real Deporter-In-Chief: Bush or Obama?
BY NORA CAPLAN-BRICKER
April 17, 2014
https://newrepublic.com/article/117412/deportations-under-obama-vs-bush-who-deported-more-immigrants

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 26, 2015 - 01:04pm PT
They are not "deporting" more in the legal sense of the word, they are counting Border Patrol apprehensions and returns to Mexico/SA are deportations. They aren't.

So what you are saying is that the President has successfully defended the borders, and greatly reduced the number of people attempting to enter.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Dec 26, 2015 - 04:48pm PT
Looks like Europe is swinging towards the right as a result of migration issues. They're getting fed up.

A lot of it stems from migration foisted upon them, and many migrants unwilling to assimilate. Their social welfare benefits are being 'taxed' too.

And you wonder why Trump is so popular here?

During a period of economic insecurity and flat or falling wages and a large amount of immigration: No. I'm not the least bit surprised that angry, bigoted, populist demagogues are gaining political traction in either the Europe of the US. I find it sad. But not surprising.

I disagree with the unwilling to assimilate. I think that is mainly on the Europeans. From my understanding, much of it from the Economist, they aren't being given the option to assimilate. For instance, from what I've read, almost all of the Syrian refugees will eventually be granted legal refugee status in the EU. However, it is expected that it will take years (yes, years) before they are given the legal right to work. So just exactly how is that supposed to work out???

I get the impression that immigrants from the middle east find Europe generally harder to find a place to live and a place to work than those immigrants would in the US (not that the US is always a picnic). So they end up in ethnic ghettos that have no local jobs and poor public transportation.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 26, 2015 - 05:05pm PT
Of the 40,000 when entered Germany at the time this article was written, about
80% came in as asylum seekers ( uninvited)

What's the difference between a "contingent refugee" and an asylum seeker?
Contingent refugees come at Germany's invitation. Upon arrival they immediately receive a residency permit for two years. They don't have to go through the traditional steps of the asylum process. They apply in Lebanese refugee camps and are chosen based on certain criteria. They have to be in need of medical treatment, or protection, for example, or already have relatives in Germany.
Syrian refugees who travel to Germany on their own, meanwhile, cannot retroactively apply for "contingent refugee" status. They have no other option but to apply for asylum and then wait for the process to run its course.


What rights do asylum applicants have?
German law stipulates what asylum seekers can and cannot do. After the "initial reception" stage, asylum seekers are either housed in group accommodation or apartments. German states interpret that differently, but each applicant must receive 6.5 square meters (70 square feet). Aid organizations have criticized collective accommodations that they said included fenced-in former barracks and often have no access to public transportation.
A so-called "residence requirement" determines the area within which asylum seekers can move in relation to their accommodation. For daily needs, such as food, they receive food packages, store coupons or cash. They're not allowed to work in their first nine months in Germany. Afterwards, the situation doesn't get much easier , since employers must first take on German workers, EU nationals or recognized refugees.


Which rights to contingent refugees have?
Unlike asylum seekers, contingent refugees can work immediately. If they can't find work, they have a right to basic security such as unemployment benefits or other social welfare benefits - just like German citizens. They must also attend an integration course and a language course. As for accommodation, they also have things easier: To the extent possible, the goal is for them to receive their own home - and not live in collective centers.

http://www.dw.com/en/syrian-refugees-in-germany/a-17697536
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 26, 2015 - 05:28pm PT
Back to my ad hominem assault on poor helpless blueringworm of the high road:

When confronting the supporters of Fascists like Trump, good manners are a waste of time, especially when mucho pussy conveniently develops a case of amnesia whenever he's asked a question that doesn't bolster his support for Trump's vendetta against the powerless.

Blueringworm has been repeatedly requested to respond to questions about his adoration of the 1%ers who have stolen TRILLIONS from U.S. taxpayers, and why he feels that they are beyond criticism or accountability. No reply, but let's pile misery upon people who might be scamming food stamps or baloney sandwiches.

He has been repeatedly asked if he feels that the words inscribed upon the Statue of Liberty mesh with his adoration of Trump's racist attitudes. No reply and, somehow, he's also struck mute when questioned about the avalanche of support for the Trump candidacy by neo-Nazis.

Nor does poor mucho pussy feel that the flood of refugees carpeting Europe has any connection to the destruction of the entire nation of Iraq by Bush and his thugs, which directly led to the formation of Daesh (ISIS) who, when not engaged in warfare against Assad, are busy slaughtering pretty well anything that moves that doesn't support their hateful agenda.

I'm not surprised that anti-immigration sentiment is on the rise in Europe - none of those nations are anywhere near large or wealthy enough to seamlessly absorb millions of refugees, especially all at once - although, unlike the U.S., they are doing their best to help. They are simply overwhelmed by fellow human beings who are desperate to go on living.

There are NO good guys with functioning brains who admire Fascism. By all accounts, Hitler's most brutal executioners were kind to their friends and loved their families - they merely believed that people who didn't inhabit their racial fairyland were sub-human and therefore unworthy of human compassion.

Fortunately, those who believed in the ideals of freedom and common decency were willing to put their lives on the line to remove this cancerous evil from planet Earth. I pray that the children and grandchildren of these selfless patriots show up in overwhelming numbers to consign Trump to the political dung heap he emerged from come election day.

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Dec 26, 2015 - 06:19pm PT
- although, unlike the U.S., they are doing their best to help.

You should maybe do a bit of reading, Stewart.

While it is true that the US isn't doing much to help, neither are many of the nations in Europe. In fact, not only are they not doing much, they're making noises that make Donald Trump sound like Jesus.

zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 26, 2015 - 07:24pm PT

Donald, by George, hell yes.

zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 26, 2015 - 07:28pm PT
Los Tres Amigos X 2 Redux


Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 26, 2015 - 07:40pm PT



You should maybe do a bit of reading, Stewart.

While it is true that the US isn't doing much to help, neither are many of the nations in Europe.


Compared to us?

Doesn't pass smell test, Ghost. I think you need to hit the books yourself.

Germany has accepted 800,000 ( about a fifth of the 4 million UN says exist) asylum refugees. More are being accepted. They have a population of 80 million. Every one of those asylum seekers is guaranteed food and housing allowances at a minimum as long as the war in Syria continues. They aren't restricted to camps, though a few are living in old barracks for the moment. Most are in apartments. They have freedom of movement over a reasonable district to provide for daily needs. And are given food, vouchers, and cash.

For the USA to meet that level of commitment, our 340 million population would have to accept every one of the 4 million refugees the UN says there are and more.

Instead, according to factcheck.org, the USA has admitted 1,921 last year and committed to only 10,000 for 2016 which is the maximum currently allowed under US law. 67% of those recommended by the UN are women and children. We currently only admit refugees with families or sponsors who will commit to house and feed them.

We are 4.5 times the population of Germany and have accepted .2% as many Syrian refugees and admitted as many refugees in a year as Germany did in 22 hrs. Weighted for population, our annual acceptance rate matched 5 hours of Germany's total annual acceptance.

Even if we accepted all 10,000 allowed by law next year ( Highly doubtful) we would match 5 days of Germany's rate of acceptance. ( A little over 1 day weighted for population. )

We really aren't in much a position to judge whether Germany's effort alone is "not much"

The rest of the EU isn't accepting at that rate. They are ALL doing better than we, even the countries that closed their borders to through travel.

As to the surge in fascism, the fact that the economy in many parts of the EU are still half of the 2008 levels might have more to do with its resurgence than refugees. Fascism less an age old formula. It feeds on hard times and looks for scapegoats, the refugees and foreigners are an easy target, as Trump well knows.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 08:39pm PT
Why do you think the Euro population is becoming fed up? It's exactly because their gov'ts are foisting upon them hundreds of thousands of poor immigrants with no real skills and an unwillingness to assimilate to the country that took them in.

The number probably tops a couple of million over the past 2 year over a few different countries. That's not immigration, it's a migrant invasion, especially the areas where these people are settled.

Best solution is to bomb the piss out of ISIS in Iraq and Syria (with some ground troops, like Kurds). Set up safe-zones with UN/NATO over-watch. After things settle down, everybody can go back to normal Syrian/Iraqi life that they know.

It's f*#king mess.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 26, 2015 - 08:42pm PT
That's right, blue.

F*#k the f*#kin' refugee f*#kers.

It's the Christian thing to do.

Merry Christmas!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 08:47pm PT
This is what you guys can't seem to understand. We (and Europe) can't take all these people, and everyone else who wants to come here.

When does it stop? Not to mention that some of these refugees could be not-so-nice people. Look where they're coming from! And ISIS has SAID it was going to exploit the refugee program.

It really stinks.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 26, 2015 - 08:53pm PT
There are a million Cuban exiles just in Miami. we can't assimilate more than 1,921 Syrians in the whole country?

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 26, 2015 - 08:58pm PT
'you guys'


????
dirtbag

climber
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:00pm PT
"Schlonged!"


(Post #2000!)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:02pm PT
American Churches should adopt and house these Syrians...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:02pm PT
Happy holidays to you, too, dirt.

(2002!!)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:05pm PT
we can't assimilate more than 1,921 Syrians in the whole country?

Read my post again. We're looking at at least 10,000 here in the US, which isn't a lot if it eases off there.

But Europe is going refugee crazy! They have been for the decade, but the past 2 years is off the charts.

It ain't a Christian thing either, it's more of a demographic and logistical problem.

The Christian thing to do would be to fix their homeland from the clutches of murderous crazy-f*#ks that kill everybody who isn't radical enough. Yazidis, Christians, moderate Muslims, Assyrians, whoever!

Why don't we fix that!!!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
We can't take all these people

Why? And before you answer, remember I just posted impartial sources that show that we both need immigrants and immigrants are a net positive paying more in taxes than they draw in benefits.

Are we short on land? Did we not directly contribute to why they have to flee in the first place (i.e. we "broke it")? Does the motto on the Statue of F*#king Liberty not say?:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Besides, I like a good sayadieh and dawood basha, not to mention falafel.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:14pm PT
Why? And before you answer, remember I just posted impartial sources that show that we both need immigrants and immigrants are a net positive paying more in taxes than they draw in benefits.

Do these Syrian refugees even speak English? And they're going to work? Where? Have we even thought about that?

Are we short on land? Did we not directly contribute to why they have to flee in the first place (i.e. we "broke it")? Does the motto on the Statue of F*#king Liberty not say?:

#1, I didn't break anything and most Americans were against overthrowing Ghaddafi, pulling our 10,000 strong security force from Irag, and de-stabilizing Egypt. Now we're going to de-stabilize Syria and remove Assad? We are not learning from our past mistakes. ISIS was strengthend right about the time we yanked remaing troops from Iraq.

And the Statue of Liberty thing? That was when we had no welfare state, and everybody was rigorously screened and quarantined until deemed safe. And they had to have a skill that was employable. It was a different time.

My great grandparents went through it. They didn't bitch, not a lot of people did.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:18pm PT
"It was a different time."

I thought conservatives prided themselves on unyielding, time-tested constitutional principles?

Or is that only when the matter suits your interests?
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:19pm PT
Here are a couple of useful references that will help put the refugee crisis in perspective in terms of asylum seeker country-of-origin and their final destination....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911

http://www.lucify.com/the-flow-towards-europe/

Yes neo-fascist/white supremacist groups and anti-immigrant, right-wing political parties are gaining in Europe and not just in eastern European countries like Poland or Hungary but also in Denmark and Sweden. Marine Le Pen's National Front party in France is on the rise as discussed in this Opinion piece by Leo Michel in Newsweek..."What if Marine Le Penn wins the French Presidency?"

http://www.newsweek.com/what-if-marine-le-pen-wins-french-presidency-408357

I suspect Le Penn is less likely to become France's next president in 2017 than Trump being elected US President in 2016. Isn't it interesting how these so-called "Populist" candidates like Le Penn and Trump, who engage in fear mongering and hate speech, benefit from tragic events like the Black Friday Paris Attacks or the recent shootings in San Bernardino? Frankly, Trump (or Cruz) scare me a helluva lot more than Syrian refugees.

Imagine what the reaction would be in this country if Russia had engaged in a reckless military intervention in Venezuela or Columbia that destabilized the region and resulted in 100s of 1,000s of refugees fleeing that country and seeking asylum in the US.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:22pm PT
#1, I didn't break anything

Well of course you, personally, didn't. We've long ago established that you never served in the military, despite you being willing to send those of us who did and do serve to die for your neocon bloodlust fantasies. But yes, you did break the entire damn region by putting the Cheney neocon cabal into power in the US. "YOU BUILT THAT", as you teabaggers love to say.

everybody was rigorously screened. And they had to have a skill that was employable.

Hahahaha. You are really absolutely, totally clueless. Prior to 1855 there was no screening, no quarantine or anything else. PERIOD. Get off the ship stroll down the wharf, nobody say boo about it.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:30pm PT
Thanks, Lorenzo for easing my carpal tunnel syndrome.

Blueringworm: I don't even know where to begin other than noting that you continue to ignore my questions about your Fascist 1%er heroes, as well as the other questions I've repeatedly asked.

Here's something you may need to consider to begin to show symptoms of the capacity for critical thought: ONLY for the sake of argument, I'll give you for free your statement that these people refuse to assimilate...

Are you capable of considering that these people may be a bit slow on the mark on that one because they're still in shock after seeing their family and friends blown to piece in front of them?

Or, perhaps, now that since they're in a nation whose customs they happen to be completely unfamiliar with, they just may feel a bit safer sticking together both for protection from exactly the kind of people you admire so much, plus it's a little easier to get by when surrounded by those of your own culture to provide you with some sense of familiarity in your new surroundings.

I fear that you may feel that I've made your point for you, but the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese, and pretty well every other national and ethnic group that built the United States behaved in exactly the same way.

I don't believe that Jesus said "love thy neighbour unless he's not Caucasian." I'm pretty sure he just said the first part, especially since he certainly wasn't the kind of mean-spirited, pig-ignorant Cracker that Trump and his followers happen to be.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:41pm PT
Well of course you, personally, didn't. We've long ago established that you never served in the military, despite you being willing to send those of us who did and do serve to die for your neocon bloodlust fantasies. But yes, you did break the entire damn region by putting the Cheney neocon cabal into power in the US. "YOU BUILT THAT", as you teabaggers love to say.

Iraq was done, until we removed our remaining security forces. The vacuum was filled by ISIS. The Iraqis won't fight unless they know we'll back them.

Hahahaha. You are really absolutely, totally clueless. Prior to 1855 there was no screening, no quarantine or anything else. PERIOD. Get off the ship stroll down the wharf, nobody say boo about it.

You know what I'm talking about. The WWI exodus from Europe that had to go through Ellis Island and the one on the west coast, forget the name of that one in Washington State. That was 1892 to the 50's!

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:50pm PT
So now this is a different time?

Can we quote you on this, next time you decide to dig in your heels based on constitutional principle?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 09:58pm PT
Can we quote you on this, next time you decide to dig in your heels based on constitutional principle?

Yes, when it's based on immigration, and the 'strict scrutiny' clause is applied. Which is what Ellis Island was.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 26, 2015 - 10:23pm PT
Constitutional principle says that each person has absolute domain over their own bodies. No person...no governmental entity...shall infringe on this.

So how about that whole abortion issue, blue?

Where does your sliding principles scale land on this one?
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 26, 2015 - 10:26pm PT
John M
As I explained, I'm only raising devils advocate points here for debate on why people would possibly be attracted to Trump.
So there is a large segment of people who do not trust the President on immigration, for whatever reason.
I'm sure you'll call it racism., but they don't trust him.
You tell me why immigration is a hot topic with a whole lot of people.

On apologies, here's some of what ya asked for.
Apologies can be spoken or only perceived. The intellectually honest understand that.
(In the age of post Clinton word parsing, semantics gets a workout by both sides, eh?)
There is a huge perception that he apologizes. He is on camera bowing to tyrants in public.
Don't you think a lot of people question the wisdom of that?
Trump answers it for them, no?

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2009/06/barack-obamas-top-10-apologies-how-the-president-has-humiliated-a-superpower

I admit I ain't the smartest guy here, maybe you are, but I ain't too stupid to see a couple ad hominem piles stinking up the trail.
If it's all the same to you, I'll just step around those stinky little buggers.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 10:40pm PT
Constitutional principle says that each person has absolute domain over their own bodies. No person...no governmental entity...shall infringe on this.

So how about that whole abortion issue, blue?

Now we're going to abortion? For f*#k's sake didn't we do this already on this very thread!!!

Ugghhhhhhh.....
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 26, 2015 - 11:01pm PT
Just pointing out what is obvious to most any reasonable person, blue.

The principles of Republicans are indisputable, irrefutable, and unchanging over time.

Until they don't suit them any longer. Then they get changed.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 11:18pm PT
The principles of Republicans are indisputable, irrefutable, and unchanging over time.

You can't just apply that to every issue, conservatives don't. Some issues can be up for debate on a Federal/State level, depends on the issue. Especially if newer revelations become apparent.

But on a personal level, the individual conservative, they come in many gradations. From Libertarian to strict conservative. It depends on the issue and the person.

It's too hard to simply put in a box and label it. The same applies to Democrats, liberals, progressives, and national socialists.

I'd call myself a 'very conservative' person on MOST issues. I'm not as far out there as some conservatives. And some self-described 'conservatives' are disappointing to me.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 26, 2015 - 11:26pm PT
Yes, when it's based on immigration, and the 'strict scrutiny' clause is applied. Which is what Ellis Island was.

There was no strict scrutiny. All but 2% of the people who landed on Ellis were accepted. Those rejected were mostly for medical reasons. And if you were a first or second class passenger, you got off the boat In Mahattan with no scrutiny at all.
Only the folks in steerage went to Ellis. ( I have a vision of folks in business and economy plus skipping the immigration check at Newark airport)

The reason for Ellis island was to collect a 50¢ head tax. Later raised to $10, and to check for disease. Rich people presumably had none.

Also, a $1 to $2 bribe got you off the boat in Manhattan

One thing about Ellis was good. At its peak 10,000 poor immigrants a day passed through the great hall. We should maybe return to that number.


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 11:43pm PT
There was no strict scrutiny. All but 2% of the people who landed on Ellis were accepted. Those rejected were mostly for medical reasons. And if you had $1,000 or a job, you got off the boat In Mahattan with no scrutiny at all.

I wouldn't say "no scrutiny".

The reason for Ellis island was to collect a 50¢ head tax. Later raised to $10, and to check for disease. Rich people presumably had none.

See, there was scrutiny. And it's not unreasonable to have to pay a fee to immigrate legally.

Also, a $1 to $2 bribe got you off the boat in Manhattan

This was rare, and done by corrupt immigration officials. There's corruption in any job, especially a gov't job.

The point is that there was a process to evaluate immigrants and accept the ones who would not be a burden on the system. We allowed people who could take care of themselves and be productive.

One thing about Ellis was good. At its peak 10,000 poor immigrants a day passed through the great hall. We should maybe return to that number.

Sure, if everything checks out.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 26, 2015 - 11:45pm PT
I wouldn't say "no scrutiny".

I would. There were no databases.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 26, 2015 - 11:47pm PT
Lorenzo, you stated above that they were screened for disease! There were other hoops too you aren't mentioning.

http://classroom.synonym.com/process-did-immigrants-through-arrived-ellis-island-late-1800s-9519.html

http://www.ellisisland.se/english/ellisisland_immigration1.asp

Oh, on the west coast there was Angel Island-SF, Port Townsend-Wash., Astoria - Oregon, and another in San Diego. All very similar to Ellis Island.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 27, 2015 - 06:59am PT
You are not paying attention.

Only the folks in steerage were screened for disease. The first and second class passengers avoided this step, because they PRESUMABLY had none. There wasn't any screening for the people who could afford it. You practically had to have blood pouring out your ears to not pass the cursory health test you first link mentions. And for the rest, 2% is not indicative of rigorous vetting. Your link calls them "six second Physicals".

The other two minute 'screening' your second link talks about was so poor they didn't even get the names of the new immigrants right. Your links show the entire process took two minutes.
A friend of mine has the surname Milly. They got that name because when his great grandfather landed, they asked him his name and he answered O'Malley in an Irish accent and that's what they wrote down. Eastern Europeans often answered English questions with a guess as to what was being asked, which is why you see lots of people who's surnames became home towns or occupations. Parts of my family included. My last name ends in a B. The original family name ended in the German ß which is a Double S.

That's not screening. Cattle get better screening at the slaughterhouse. They are chipped or tagged. Your concept of the sort of checks on immigration Ellis provided is a myth. It existed to collect a head tax. If you didn't have it, you sat until somebody paid it or you worked it off. But you weren't sent back.

Your original statement was
Yes, when it's based on immigration, and the 'strict scrutiny' clause is applied. Which is what Ellis Island was.

There was no strict scrutiny. It's a myth.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 08:04am PT
Yeah, the medical exam was not a blood test. If they survived the boat ride and looked pretty good, they passed. Some were quarantined if they looked questionable. The clearly sick and criminals were rejected.

The first/second class passengers were probably all in pretty good shape.

As for the fees, that money was collected to help offset the costs of housing, overseeing, and feeding these people until they were released from the Island. You make it sound like we were just greedy bastards gouging immigrants.

This was a huge, new thing for the US. The quantity of people coming was hard to deal with back then. It was a pretty good system though, all things considered.

Now, we have far better resources and knowledge to make this an even better, more thorough system. Especially when we have groups that actually are intent to coming here for the sole purpose of creating havoc and causing deaths to Americans, even if it means their own demise.

EDIT: The Constitution only allows for the Federal gov't to 'natualize' citizens who have been here a while legally, not grant amnesty or accept refugees. Those are outside the purview of the Constitution. It's optional, at the discretion of the Congress and, I think, the prez.

Following the wording/intent of the Constitution seems to be whimsical thing nowadays though.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 27, 2015 - 08:27am PT
Nice read Donald saved the Farm..

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2015/12/26/that-time-when-donald-trump-saved-a-georgia-farm/




dirtbag

climber
Dec 27, 2015 - 08:29am PT
At one point, 5,000,000 Italians thought Mussolini was great, too.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 27, 2015 - 08:30am PT
At one point, 5,000,000 Italians thought Mussolini was great, too


posted a link for Norton.. enjoy the Donald LIBS..
dirtbag

climber
Dec 27, 2015 - 08:49am PT
Oh I am, pyro. Donald and his merry brand of fascists are doing their best to tank the republicans this November.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 27, 2015 - 08:49am PT
Yep, and if you don't include simple returns to Mexico to be deportations, Bush II's record becomes especially dismal in comparison.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 08:52am PT
At one point, 5,000,000 Italians thought Mussolini was great, too.


Yeah, and a lot of Germans liked Adolf too. Then they saw the consequences of the real Mussolini and the horror of Hitler. Especially the Italians, they actually retaliated against Mussolini and his 'fascisti'.

My great grand-parents came over here during this time, they bailed. But they did go through the US emigrant system. I said Ellis before but I think it was Astoria, Oregan. My grand mother has child pics of her and her 3 sisters in Astoria, and then Washington State.

Oh I am, pyro. Donald and his merry brand of fascists are doing their best to tank the republicans this November.


Can we please stop throwing around the word 'fascist' when it does not apply?

EDIT: just ran across this. Video shows Russian aircraft pummeling the crap out of smuggled-oil convoys on their way to Turkey from Syria. Turkey is not helping the situation, they're basically giving money to ISIS.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/12070100/Russia-releases-dramatic-pictures-of-air-strikes-on-Islamic-State-oil-empire.html

Also looks like the Kurds (backed by US Special ops) are doing the heavy lifting again. They should really have their own state. They are so different than the people around them. Kurdistan!

http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/26122015

Czech prez makes a pretty good point. Military aged males should not be fleeing their homeland, they should be defending it. Fleeing it leaves a bigger vacuum for ISIS thugs to fill. Not to mention that some of these males could be sympathetic to ISIS and jihad.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/12/26/czech-president-milos-zeman-calls-migrant-wave-europe-organised-invasion/

At least a lot of Assyrians (many of them older gentlemen) are standing up to ISIS and fighting for their homes/lands. They could use some help though.

http://unitedassyrianappeal.org/

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 27, 2015 - 08:54am PT
Stephen Colbert on Face the Nation this morning,

"I don't do my old character any more because Trump does him better than me."
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 27, 2015 - 11:07am PT
Can we please stop throwing around the word 'fascist'


+1
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 27, 2015 - 11:21am PT
Yes...

but for now it STILL applies..




quite acting like ur some young kid locker
dirtbag

climber
Dec 27, 2015 - 11:44am PT
Trump is a fascist.

It's not a term I "throw around."

He's a fascist. I'm calling a spade a spade.

Donald Trump is a fascist.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 11:47am PT
Donald Trump is a fascist.


Explain. And also explain how his supporters, like me, are fascist.

(I do have a "I'm with Ben" bumper stick on my truck, and I like Cruz as well).
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 11:52am PT
Trump and ANY ONE that votes for the racist prick is most likely also a racist prick...

I guess I'm a racist in Locker's bizarre world. This is what I mean about throwing labels around loosely.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 12:03pm PT
People wish to vote for Trump because he supposedly speaks his mind...

That's only one of the reasons...more of a perk than a reason to vote for him. He'll tell you like he see's it and doesn't pussy-foot around in PC bullsh#t.

Unlike most politicos who are Washington lifers, he doesn't need this. But I think, like many, he's tired of getting f*#ked by people in Washington. Repubs and Dems who only seek to retain their power. They're incapable of anything else in the free-market. They NEED gov't.

EDIT: Loose cannon? Did you hear that from the media (who hates him), the Washington establishment (who hates him), or your lib buddies here (who hate him).

He's not as loose as you think.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 12:19pm PT
He IS NOT a good candidate for President...

How any one believes he is, is truly a mystery to me (And countless others)...

Just so I can see where you're coming from, who do YOU think is a good candidate for prez? Be specific. Don't puss out and say "anyone else".
John M

climber
Dec 27, 2015 - 12:24pm PT
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

Full Definition of fascism
1
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

Donald Trump….

A…
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual
Donald Trump= CHECK

B.
that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader
Donald Trump= CHECK

C.
severe economic and social regimentation
Donald Trump= CHECK

D.
forcible suppression of opposition
Donald Trump= Double CHECK
dirtbag

climber
Dec 27, 2015 - 12:34pm PT
To be clear, he isn't hitler. But he is on the fascism spectrum.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 12:40pm PT
good grief, you are trying to squeeze him into a mold. I could do the same with Hillary and Bernie.

Locker what successful experience does Hillary have? She's a nightmare in politics. She's very responsible for destabilizing Libya and killing Ghaddafi, who held Libya together pretty well after giving up nukes and moderating.

And she's a blatant liar. She changes her tonal inflections to kiss ass to whichever group she's talking to. That's experience?

People see through it, and they don't like it. Only liberal feminists and emasculated millennials support her.

Most women I know think she's bitch!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 01:06pm PT
Locker, do you have any idea how much baggage that woman has? All the way back Bill's term in office as prez and gov.

Just because she's been in politics most of her life doesn't mean she has the experience we need. It's not a very good record at all.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 01:25pm PT
He's not phony, he has been the exec of a huge successful business empire (remember a prez is basically a chief exec), people fear/respect him (depending who they are), he's a great negotiator (diplomat). And...

he's not a career politician. He's doing this for the betterment of the country, and also for his ego, but if you tell me Hillary doesn't have a huge ego I'll punch you.

Where have career politicians gotten us lately? They don't give a f*#k about us or the country, just themselves.

Just because you SoS and Senator experience doesn't mean it's good experience. She was a failure as SoS. In the Senate she did squat.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 27, 2015 - 01:31pm PT
Hi everyone

well, this IS the Donald Trump thread and has just been given an award

an award for being the biggest, most prolific liar of the year

for not just one lie, but for being the biggest liar of all the candidates

http://www.politifact.com/california/article/2015/dec/21/2015-lie-year-campaign-misstatements-donald-trumpc/
Norton

Social climber
Dec 27, 2015 - 01:44pm PT
Trump Supporters Demographics - white, blue collar workers, high school graduates

It seems that education really matters here. Even when pollsters took race out of the equation — to the extent that that is possible since the Republican base is overwhelmingly white — and looked at all Republicans, the relationship between education and Trump support was pretty clear.


http://www.politifact.com/california/article/2015/dec/21/2015-lie-year-campaign-misstatements-donald-trumpc/
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 01:47pm PT
Norton, did they even look at Hillary?
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Dec 27, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
He's not phony, he has been the exec of a huge successful business empire

You mean he ran four businesses into bankruptcy?

Or do you admire the way his fortune has underperformed the S&P500 since that "small loan" he got from his father?

Facts. Republicans hate them.

TE
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 27, 2015 - 02:28pm PT
Good morning America! Remember- I will do far more for women than Hillary, and I will keep our country safe, something which she will not be able to do-no strength/stamina!

Donald Trump

here you go locker I was thinking about your No strength/stamina hillary
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 27, 2015 - 02:31pm PT
"she ran the State Department in the most effective way that I’ve ever seen.”

Republican, former Sec State, Henry Kissinger.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 02:43pm PT
ElCap, I don't care what Henry says. She destroyed Libya and knew damn well about gun-running from there to Syria. Benghazi?

And she trys to pretend nothing happened. Are you a Hillary person, ElCap?

EDIT:
You mean he ran four businesses into bankruptcy?

Or do you admire the way his fortune has underperformed the S&P500 since that "small loan" he got from his father?

Facts. Republicans hate them.

He turned a million into billions. That's thousands of millions. Is that unsuccessful?

Are will you ignore that fact?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 27, 2015 - 02:53pm PT

He turned a million into billions.
Daddy's first gift to him was $5.7 million just out of college, augmented by $280 million later on. He grew that at less than the rate of the S&P 500. In the process he declared bankruptcy four times, costing people less wealthy than him millions.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 02:57pm PT
You're really reaching. Did he turn a million into billions?

That's really the bottom line.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 27, 2015 - 03:00pm PT
He never saw an amount as little as a million.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 03:13pm PT
So what?

He has more in common with average-joe's than Hillary. He relates better to people than Hillary without being phony.

Go ahead though, vote for Hillary. I'm sure you voted for Obama twice too...
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 27, 2015 - 03:27pm PT
And blueringworm actually believes that Iraq was "finished" before U.S. forces left? In the real world, that is categorized as either wilful ignorance or insanity.

It sickens me that someone with his head so far up Trump's ass that he is unable to see daylight refuses to admit that there is a DIRECT connection between the total destruction of Iraq, along with the undeniable atrocities and cynical betrayals committed against the Iraqi people by both Bush presidents and the emergence of Daesh (ISIS). This indisputably led to the current refugee crisis, and pretty well every scholar worthy of the name accepts the above comments as fact.

I think the big problem reasonable people have with mucho pussy is that he is so completely indoctrinated with his Fascist (and this word is used correctly) beliefs that he is incapable of responding to factual challenges to his prejudices with reasoned responses.

It's intellectually chickenshit behaviour by anyone who claims to be an adult, and what makes it even more contemptible is that blueringworm presumes to speak for the "actual" intent of others, as in his explanation for what the words inscribed at Statue of Liberty "actually" mean.

There's a trick this guy picked up directly from Mein Kampf, and is often referred to as the Big Lie - keep repeating the same mendacious crap over and over again and, with luck people with start to accept it as fact.

Perhaps I could reluctantly muster an iota of tolerance for blueringworm's toxic comments if he had enough respect for the truth to at least attempt to counter statements of fact that have been presented to him by his critics with a presentation of verifiable (or at least plausible) counter-arguments.

What we get from him instead is what he "believes" - which is completely worthless as evidence in any respectable forum, or he simply takes the coward's way out, which is to run and hide from any difficult questions that challenge his prejudices.

Perhaps if mucho pussy had the integrity to consider that it was only dumb luck that spared his parents the mindless hatred that was routinely unleashed upon less fortunate immigrants after they arrived upon the shores of the U.S., then he might have actually have grown up to become a man instead of the intellectual equivalent of a scratched vinyl LP record.

When JFK said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but rather what you can do for your country", he didn't mean destroy the place, blueringworm.

EDIT: And Trump went bankrupt 3 times. Good thing there was a Federal government to bail his loathsome 1%er ass out, eh?


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 03:29pm PT
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 27, 2015 - 03:32pm PT
Mucho pussy: What an intellectually devastating response. I'm cowed by your brilliant use of meaningless cut and paste technology.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 03:50pm PT
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 03:51pm PT
Anyone can say stupid crap...

Glad you finally realized that. Remember that when calling people racists and fascists when you disagree with them. And Hitlery never says inane, stupid sh#t?


Do you REALLY believe him..

Yeah.

or is it maybe possible that he's just a power seeking LOON with no where near enough experience to run the Presidency???...

Hitlery or Trump?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 04:26pm PT
Locker, Hitlery would be way more authoritarian than Trump to people who disagree with her. Just like Obama.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Dec 27, 2015 - 04:45pm PT
Bring on duh chump.

Expose these fools!
dirtbag

climber
Dec 27, 2015 - 04:48pm PT
Fascist.

Fascist fascist fascist fascist fascist.

Crude, crass, and rude.

He's all that. A bully, too. He's playing to our fears and anger.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 27, 2015 - 04:52pm PT
Another message (after immigration and apology perceptions) that I think is resonating with the Trump supporters is his disdain for the media.
A table of the politics of professions
http://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/
Click on writing, click on journalist and look at the ratio.

I haven't watched one debate, but I have read that the biggest responses in the republican debates has been when candidates have called "journalists" on their perceived biases. Psycho-analyse why as you'd like, but it's there with a lot of people.



I think working class people also sense that there is a separate political class in DC and they sense there is a Wall St, crony-capitalist insider games going on.
Polls often tell us that only about 20% of Americans trust the government to do the right thing.

As the old saying goes "They went to Washington to do good, they stayed to do well."

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 05:00pm PT
I think working class people also sense that there is a separate political class in DC and they sense there is a Wall St, crony-capitalist insider games going on.
Polls often tell us that only about 20% of Americans trust the government to do the right thing.

As the old saying goes "They went to Washington to do good, they stayed to do well."

We have a winner!
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 27, 2015 - 05:07pm PT
Trump with handcuffs and a bull whip?

“I have often been called a Nazi, and, although it is unfair, I don't let it bother me. I don't let it bother me for one simple reason. No one has ever had a fantasy about being tied to a bed and sexually ravished by someone dressed as a liberal.”
P. J. O'Rourke
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 27, 2015 - 06:25pm PT
EDIT: And Trump went bankrupt 3 times. Good thing there was a Federal government to bail his loathsome 1%er ass out, eh?


Four times according to Forbes. 1991,1992,2004,2009. Each time is was over leveraging his casino operations in Atlantic City.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2011/04/29/fourth-times-a-charm-how-donald-trump-made-bankruptcy-work-for-him/

Its cheaper than borrowing money and paying it back.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 06:35pm PT
I know, huh? Hillary and Obama have NEVER gone bankrupt once!

Know why? They're never left their elitist Ivory Towers and actually ran something. Their jobs have almost no consequences.

Pretty good work, I suppose, if ya can get it.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 27, 2015 - 06:36pm PT
Alternatively, they didn't think stiffing creditors was ethical.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 06:39pm PT
Do you mean Wall Street donors, Lorenzo?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 27, 2015 - 06:51pm PT
Trump Stiffed them, too?

Not surprised.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 27, 2015 - 06:58pm PT
Lorenzo: Thanks for the update. By the way, I should probably be hiding in the shadows and hissing in vexation because blueringworm, with his usual razor-sharp wit and grasp of reality has decided I am a... commie.

Actually, I'm not, although I'd have enough integrity to admit it if I was. Perhaps mucho pussy could tell us what kind of commie I'm supposed to be, though: Marxist, Marxist-Leninist, Trotskyite, Maoist, Stalinist, or what? There's a huge difference between the dogma of all of those types, plus the ones I've neglected to mention. No worries, though - he'll be sure to explain in more detail.

Speaking of commies, though, I'm puzzled by Trump's homoerotic love affair with Putin - Putin who's the biggest threat Russia has unleashed upon world peace since his hero Joseph Stalin croaked. How can even Tea Baggers stomach that outrage?

For the record, my contempt for blueringworm goes back years. Once upon a time I tried to politely reason with him, but not once has he ever provided a single straight answer in response to any question I have ever asked him.

The U.S. citizens who gave their lives to protect the right to vote must be rolling over in their graves whenever mucho pussy submits another one of his infantile posts in support of Trump's sickening xenophobic agenda.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 08:14pm PT
Trump is an IQ-deflating Svengali, hypnotizing and stupefying his audience with his magical prevarications.



His supporters should google 'trump' with just about any other word. Maybe there are good stories about him out there, but the majority of google hits shows this guy to be Der Donald Drumpfkopf.


What makes him tick, like the proverbial Time Bomb?


Well, at both ends of the economic spectrum are children poisoned by heavy metals - lead for the poor, silver-spoon for the rich.

Trump is the sine quo non of narcissistic, self-entitled elitist predator. This guy has a serious cognitive dysfunction, caused by that childhood silver-spoon-poisoning.



This is the guy who wanted to use "eminent domain" to seize an elderly widow's seaside home to build a private limousine garage. She had to battle, in court, Trump and a Casino Reinvestment Development Authority to retain ownership of the home she'd lived in for 30 years.

Later, on CNN, Drumpkopf claimed that he was only in favor of eminent domain seizures when it would produce jobs. How many jobs are created by a fancy limousine garage at Trump Plaza, intending to lure the 1% to blow their plunderings at Trump's Wheel of Fortune?

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH




TRUMP IS WHACK



Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 27, 2015 - 09:02pm PT
Tom: Your well-chosen words sum up this walking pustule's (lack of) character brilliantly.

But I truly am truly confused - the overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens I have met are kindly, generous people. Can you help me understand where the hysterical adoration of this contemptible, mean-spirited hack comes from? It seems apparent that even Republicans are disgusted with him.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 27, 2015 - 09:39pm PT
Ever since a senile, C-list actor took the national stage, and declared that the government (and taxes) was the problem, the Ronnie-worshiping Republicans have repeated his false mantra.

Now, thirty years on, it is clear that the entire fiction of Voodoonomics, Trickle-Down, and de-tax the rich has failed the United States miserably.

But, just like Star Wars continues to have a vice-grip on the public consciousness all these years later, the bloated memory of Reagan fills the right-wing soul as nothing else ever possibly could.



Meanwhile, the transfer of wealth from the lower to the upper classes, via Voodoonomics, the Trickle-Up theory and de-taxing the rich has eviscerated middle America. The idea that de-taxing the wealthiest few would benefit society as a whole is only true if starving the nation out of its obesity epidemic seems like a good idea.


The right/center middle of America, confused as to the source of their despair (the upward mobility of wealth, and the downward mobility of people) are at a loss about what to do.

Being eternally faithful to Reagan, they are unwilling to recognize the inherent failure of his so-called revolution. Unable to declare themselves duped by a walking, talking stuffed corpse, they have continued to support the political maneuvers that benefit the 1%, and totally keesters the 99%.


But, that is exactly what is causing their pain. Indeed, it is the business as usual in Washington that is at the heart of the problem. The neo-con lunatics brought forth a litany of economic nonsense, like corporations are people, rich people are generous, and deregulated lawlessness is good for society. Paying off corrupt, fancy, faux-objective academic economists in fancy places like Cambridge and New Haven, it has been "proved" using "economic science" that if all controls and restrictions in the economy are removed ("free enterprise"), then it's happy days for everyone. Well, at least happy days for the 1%ers.


Those poor, deluded Reaganites have now found themselves HERE AND NOW, confused and hurt and not sure of what to think. They can't just turn, inside out like a Caitlyn Jenner, and become Democrats.

Their own political party has been hijacked by a plethora of wealthy sociopathic lunatics, like Adelson, Ellison, Koch and a Hell's legion of Wall Street banker cannibal parasites.

There is NO THIRD PARTY in the United States, so what are these great, middle Americans supposed to do?



BOOM!


Here comes The Mouth, with the "solution" - look to outside forces as the enemy, demonize a specific group, go in and take the oil.

Nowhere in Trump's demented blatherings is acknowledgement that the basic problem in America is the shifting upwards of wealth into the hands of the few, and out of the hands of middle America.

Trump is the 1%, and in this context HE is The Enemy.





I basically call it like this:

The wealthiest few are happy to distract the public away from their own, nefarious and sociopathic behavior, and to divert the blame away from their own dysfunctional greed. Any sort of clown, or comedy act that accomplishes that is GOLD to the 1%ers.







A CEO, a Worker, and A Union Delegate are sitting around a table.

There is a plate with twenty cookies in the middle of the table.

The CEO grabs nineteen of the cookies, and stuffs them into his pockets.

Then, the CEO turns to the Worker, and says:

WATCH OUT! THAT UNION GUY IS TRYING TO STEAL YOUR COOKIE!



pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 28, 2015 - 08:05am PT
WATCH OUT! THAT UNION GUY IS TRYING TO STEAL YOUR COOKIE!

that's because UNION suck.. no room for GROWTH when a union person around it's a no wonder CEO say eff off!


Trump is the 1%, and in this context HE is The Enemy

go back to that drum circle!
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 28, 2015 - 08:54am PT
The cookies were congested with gluten.
That CEO sacrificed his life to save the workers life...lol

Jim Brennan,
Good take on how the Trump supporters also perceive the "ruling class".

So I think immigration policy, American exceptionalism, media bias and a separate ruling class in DC, are the galvanizing issues fueling the Trump bandwagon.

Democrats see only bigots and fascists supporting Trump, but looky here. Bernie Sanders knows many of those supporters are, as Stewart wrote "kindly, generous people". He is going to mine that for votes.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/12/27/bernie-sanders-wants-trump-voters/

Stewart wrote:
I'm puzzled by Trump's homoerotic love affair with Putin - Putin who's the biggest threat Russia has unleashed upon world peace since his hero Joseph Stalin croaked. How can even Tea Baggers stomach that outrage?

During the last election campaign Romney was mocked by democrats and Obama for implying Russia was still a future threat.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 28, 2015 - 09:10am PT
It was during a debate..Obama didn't say Russia was not a potential threat, he criticized Romney for saying they were a bigger threat than Al Qaeda (at that time, 2012).

tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 28, 2015 - 10:24am PT
According to David Rothschild's Predictwise.com, you guys are all betting on the wrong horse. Predictwise aggregates multiple data sources, including Prediction Markets (e.g. Betfair), Polling (HuffPost Pollsters), Bookies (OddsChecker) to forecast outcomes of elections, sports events, etc. According to Rothschild's website, he predicted 50 of 51 Electoral College outcomes in February of 2012, average of 20 of 24 Oscars from 2013-5, and 15 of 15 knockout games in the 2014 World Cup. As you can see from the graph, Predictwise has Rubio (36%) Cruz (27%) & Trump (21%). However, note the trends. Although Rubio is on top, he's trending downward. Trump has been flat in the low to mid 20s since November and Cruz is ascending.

http://predictwise.com/politics/2016-president-republican-nomination/
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 28, 2015 - 10:52am PT
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 28, 2015 - 11:01am PT
Yes Hillary is by far still the best bet for the General Election. Sadly, according to Predictwise, all the Republican runner's % points > Bernie's.

My post above was about betting on the Republican Nomination horse race.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 28, 2015 - 11:14am PT
In Gallup poll for the Most Admired Man of 2015, Donald Trump ties Pope Francis for second place.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-pope-francis-tie-second-place-most-admired-man-2015-n486691

NBC news
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 28, 2015 - 11:19am PT
Yeah. he got 5%
Hillary, the Most Admired Woman, got 13%

See a trend here, pyromaniac?
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Dec 28, 2015 - 11:31am PT
According to Gallup, Bernie (3%) just below Trump & Pope Francis

Most Admired Woman: Carly Fiorina more admired than Elizabeth Warren...sad.
At least Malala beat Oprah.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 28, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
Forum Bully the Cowardly Lion is jealous he has no candidate he can vote for in our solar system. Creepy alien stuck in a bunker, ruled by a giant eye in the sky that fills his head with mush.
Dogtown.

Trad climber
Marshell islands atoll
Dec 28, 2015 - 02:24pm PT
More like ready for Bill? Its her only hope.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 28, 2015 - 02:29pm PT
Oh-k.
Dogtown.

Trad climber
Marshell islands atoll
Dec 28, 2015 - 02:41pm PT
Hillary is the best bet?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 28, 2015 - 02:56pm PT
No, Forum Bully, they don't run because they lack the courage to take the heat.

And they know ignorant blowhards like you are going to call them names.

But Hillary's tougher than the likes of you. She'd crush you like a pencil-necked geek.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 28, 2015 - 03:33pm PT
they don't run because they lack the courage to take the heat

Jim Webb was the ONLY candidate with the brains and the integrity for the job.
He just isn't the ball cupping hypocrite one needs to be to run successfully.
As for courage he was also the only vet, not to mention a highly decorated vet.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 28, 2015 - 03:35pm PT
He could run as an independent. A cabinet position might suit him better.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-12-26/webb-attacks-clinton-with-eye-on-independent-run
Dogtown.

Trad climber
Marshell islands atoll
Dec 28, 2015 - 03:39pm PT
Have some more Kool-Aid Locker!
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 28, 2015 - 03:53pm PT
As for courage he was also the only vet, not to mention a highly decorated vet.

Nowadays, the GOP specializes in attacking veterans, especially decorated ones. Look what they did to Max Cleland, and Kerry, of all people. Heck, they even bash McClain now.

Of course, Republicans have to do that, since they were home with draft deferments while guys like Cleland were trapped at Khe Sanh.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 28, 2015 - 04:09pm PT
Jim Webb was the ONLY candidate with the brains and the integrity for the job.
He just isn't the ball cupping hypocrite one needs to be to run successfully.

Agree, he was NOT qualified
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 28, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
The Hillary hacks go on and on, all day, all night, endlessly.

Get a life you morons

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 28, 2015 - 04:30pm PT
Agree, he was NOT qualified

Why, you got something against integrity and brains?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 28, 2015 - 04:36pm PT
Jim Webb also happens to be one of the very, very few democrats that backed the confederate flag jackasses. Which renders hit unfit for leadership of ANY kind in a party that overwhelmingly rejects it as a symbol of racist oppression. (Nevermind being unfit to lead the country)

Aside from the tone-deaf idiocy of the traitors' flag, he's also a lunatic, volatile fukin nutter. This is the same guy that bragged about breaking the handgun law in DC. Same guy that whined about women in the military academies, and whined about the "Tailhook" investigation.

Real stand up guy you're pimpin there Moss.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 28, 2015 - 04:41pm PT
I heard a funny 'black helicopter' conspiracy theory from a good friend of mine (Republican!) the other day...he thinks that there's a Hillary-Trump connection with the goal of Trump damaging the GOP chances so badly that Hillary will be a shoo-in. After the election, expect to see a new Trump Tower just down the street from 1400 Pennsylvania Avenue.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Dec 28, 2015 - 05:09pm PT
Bring on duh chump.

Expose these parroting fools!
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 28, 2015 - 05:32pm PT
pyro: Brilliant analysis, as always. Here's the difference between unions and 1%ers:

In the past, unions have fought and even died to provide improved wages and human rights for ALL working people. The few remaining unions continue to do so, although it's hard to believe that it isn't a losing battle - they simply lack the power to successfully resist corporate power.

1%ers steal TRILLIONS of dollars of taxpayers money for themselves and the politicians in their pockets and don't give a rat's asz about the plight of the remaining 99% of the human race.

You've made it plain whose side you're on, and it certainly isn't among those who have the integrity to build a better world for those who aren't currently bankrupting it with their insatiable greed.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 28, 2015 - 05:45pm PT
In the past, unions have fought and even died to provide improved wages and human rights for ALL working people.

Mmmmm not really.

I had a job as a carpenter for two years on a military base when the carpenter's Union came in and scooped up the jobs for union workers. My boss said I could keep the job if I joined the union. (1974)

So I went to the hall to sign up. It would actually have been a raise even paying dues..( I had never been approached to join a union in South central Pennsylvania. They weren't active there. ) they told me the rolls were closed and they weren't accepting new members or even allowing people on the waiting list, and if they did, the first ones in would be family members of current members.


So the union stole my job.

Five years later I was a construction superintendent hiring some of those same guys.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired Climber
Dec 28, 2015 - 06:14pm PT
I believe crankloon will have a heart attack if Hillary doesn't win.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 28, 2015 - 06:25pm PT
I know I'll have one if the Donald does.

Nah, I'm moving to BA.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 28, 2015 - 09:08pm PT
Why, you got something against integrity and brains?

If that were the ONLY criteria, Carson is our next president.

But it isn't.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 28, 2015 - 09:12pm PT
Lorenzo: I completely disagree with you. Unions are a good thing for the overwhelming number of people who belong to them, and accepting your story as complete - meaning there was no opportunity for you to hop aboard before the hiring spots were filled, etc. Without the complete story from both sides, though, it certainly seems to me that you were indeed shafted, and I would have done everything within my power to assist you should I have been one of your co-workers.

I have no idea what that other guy is whining about.

It would be ridiculous for me to claim that all unions are perfect, but unions are democratically run by their members, which means that when union members are treated unfairly, then the members have the power to get rid of their leaders and elect people who will treat them fairly. If this is not true, then we're talking about a criminal organization.

Something that is self-evident when you think about it is that workers pay their bosses for their jobs - this is what the world of business is all about, and I cannot think of a single employer, regardless of how generous he happens to be, who is running a successful business that is actually taking ALL profits out of his pockets and giving them to his workers. He, too, is entitled to an income.

When employers bargain in good faith with their workers, there's little logic for the employees to make demands that could put the company out of business and, if this happens, everyone loses.

As far as unreasonable demand from the people who actually work for a living as opposed to those who qualify for admission to the 1%er greed orgy, please take the time to go back a few pages in this thread to find the graph that details the wage increases for real workers since the '80s to the present (about zero) compared to the income grabbed by 1%ers - a gigantic and continuing increase for those parasites and no sign of it even slowing down in the future. Contrast and compare.

I'm going to repeat myself, Lorenzo - I know unions aren't all perfect. I was once in a similar situation to yours: I was working for a non-union company at a large construction site, and several of the union groups (including a unionized version of workers doing exactly the same kind of work as I did) were on strike. Our bosses told us to cross the picket line or we'd be fired. Knowing this, when one of the picket captains walked up to me and asked me not to cross the line I said OK - sign me up as a member of your union. He said no way, so I crossed the line without a pang of regret, and in the same situation I'd do exactly the same thing today.

As I said, all unions aren't perfect, but they are still unquestionably the best hope for working people to get a fair share of the profits that so many of their employers are stealing from them.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 28, 2015 - 09:17pm PT
Stewart, excellent post.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 28, 2015 - 09:36pm PT
When you lefties are not stuck on stupid with the hildebeast cheer you're pushing the stupidity of communism to achieve the mythical fair and level playing field. It's been tried over and over again with universal failure. Get over it, it is not and never will be a fair world. There are leaders and there are followers. The ambitious and the lazy. The smart and the stupid. You commie wannabes fit squarely in the latter of all above cited metrics.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 28, 2015 - 09:44pm PT
^^^

Hey Sumner, you send the commie PFD check back to Juneau every year? Somehow I doubt it.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 28, 2015 - 09:49pm PT
Don't have to capnazz. I don't apply for one even though I qualify.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 28, 2015 - 10:06pm PT
Stewart.

When I lost my job to the union ( and no, I was not given a chance to join the union before or after) I vowed to never be a union worker, and I never was.

(I was a teamster for a couple of years as a truck driver at Kennedy airport during the summers in college - local 295, aka the mob's candy store. http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/03/nyregion/kennedy-airport-mob-s-candy-store.html);

My story with them continued. I went to work the next day for another company that didn't have union workers. As I said, there were very few union carpenters in Adams County, PA.
( none? I never met one) The union guys were coming up 90 miles from the DC area. There wasn't much work there. The savings and loan crisis shut the industry down.

I got promoted regularly because I had good skills and was productive, and was running jobs within a year along side working with wood. My new company which had a complete millwork, got lots of jobs doing Banks and Lawyers offices, so I got to do some interesting stuff. As it turned out, many of those were in DC.

We got a contract doing bank branch offices in four states, PA, De, MD, and VA, as well as DC. The contract was basically flat rate depending on size, so as we got more efficient from repetition we made more money on successive branches. My profit sharing went though the roof that year. Best year I ever had.

Rather than take our crews off other jobs, we decided to hire carpenters locally, and the easiest way to do that was through the union halls. Generally, you just called the local hall, and they sent guys. This was in the early 80's and there was a recession engineered by Volke. We would get some motel rooms in a town, work 10 hr + days in 3 or 4 branches at a time, and drive home for long weekends.

It worked out ok except for a few exceptions, and I just didn't ask those guys back the next week and had the hall send others.

As it turned out, none of the union guys had either the skills or the tools to do some of the required work ( union guys don't own power tools except maybe a screw gun.) . They were mostly commercial guys and the banks required some actual carpentry, so I reached into my truck for tools and worked along side a couple of their best guys, training them to do basic trim work (with my chop saws) and doing the more complicated tasks myself. I think they had fun.

Then a shop steward came around. I was told this was a No-no as I was management and couldn't pick up a tool. Threatening letters were sent to the company.

After he left, I told the guys this would probably be their last week, because I would have to find guys to do the work they weren't trained for, whether they be union or not. They wanted the work. I had no obligation to keep them. They were hired by the day, technically. Either I or the hall could terminate the arrangement anytime, and had the economy been better, I wouldn't have had guys, as they would have been sent to union projects.

We reached an agreement. I wouldn't work with my hands when a steward showed up, and they would keep an eye out and warn me when one was in the parking lot so I had time to put them down and look like a super. They knew the stewards and I didn't. This worked out ok for a couple dozen branches with only some adjustment period when a new guy showed up. He would have to agree not to turn the whole crew in to the Stewards. They always succumbed to the peer pressure and wanted to work also, but eventually things were getting a bit tense. Even though I kept moving the same crew to different branches, It was getting harder to hide from the Stewards and they were starting to suspect, probably because a couple guys who weren't working out and I sent away told the stewards.
I never did get caught red handed, though. 'My' guys always protected me.

Then a union guy remembered a clause in the standard contract that allowed for "Artisan workers" who didn't have to be union. They had to be self employed and only used for tasks the union guys couldn't do. I think the rule was intended for artwork and sculpture. From then on, that's what I was, officially, when a steward showed up and I told my boss he had to say I was a sub if anyone from the union asked.

So my Union carpenters and I finished the branch offices with no more issues.

I was, by the way, offered a union card by then. Curiously, the union rolls opened just as they were losing a big share of the construction jobs to open shops. Right to work laws and all. Had I taken it, the whole thing would have been easier, but I told my story about the old job and those guys understood. I still exchange Christmas cards with a couple of them.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 29, 2015 - 06:29am PT
A recent Union win: My brother has been employed by Kohler (bathroom fixtures) for a good quarter century. The company is a good one. Back in the '90's, when his wife delivered their baby prematurely and spent his precious few days in ICU, the insurance coverage paid every last cent of the cost. My brother was very grateful for what he felt was more than just a "bargained chip," but a kindness.

The company has gone through changes(what company hasn't?) and though he is still proud to be a Kohler employee, he has spoken about some of the decisions the new generation owner is making. So it goes....

When the US had our bad economic downturn in 2008(Obama's fault, of course - he must have flipped some switch the moment he took over as president....) - the Kohler management asked the Union to accept a two-tier wage system for future employees. It was sold as a temporary measure, to aid the company through the difficult period.

Well, the company did thrive. It did extremely well, actually. And recently the Union said "You know - it's time to retract that two-tier system. We accepted the deal with the understanding it would be temporary. We see now that the company weathered that storm and is solidly profitable, and in that light, it's really bad for morale to have people doing the exact same job for such a lower rate of pay."

The company refused and after negotiations stalled, the workers went on strike. It took a good two weeks, at Thankgsgiving time, for a resolution to come, but the Union did prevail and in the end, the Kohler company did the right thing, and raised the second-tier employee wages.

Here was a group of people, the first-tier ones, who stood by their fellow workers - willingly - and supported them. There was never one word from my brother that "well, the damned union says we must." NO - it was "These workers deserve a living wage, and we can't stand by and ignore the fact they aren't getting it."

United, we stand. Divided, we fall.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 29, 2015 - 06:40am PT
Great story, Happie.

Meanwhile, Fox has crowned their King...

Trump has done a masterful job sucking all the oxygen out of the room. Fox is not the only offender. One time, what you said was more important than how much you said. No so in the modern Republican Party.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Dec 29, 2015 - 06:45am PT

Please, pray with me for the Donald and all those suffering with Affluenza.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 29, 2015 - 07:04am PT
Meanwhile, The Donald's attempt to demonize all Muslims is paying big dividends.
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-sikhs-20151229-story.html

Early Saturday morning in northwest Fresno, a 68-year-old farmhand waited curbside for his ride to work pruning grapevines at nearby vineyards.

It was a typical Central California scene, except for the way the man was dressed — Amrik Singh Bal, who is Sikh, wore a full white beard and a turban. Shortly before 7 a.m., two men pulled up in a truck, hurled insults at Bal, and when he tried to cross the street to get away from them, they backed the truck into him, then beat him up before skidding away, police said.

"Why are you here?" one of the men said as they assaulted Bal, leaving him with a broken collarbone and cuts to his nose and hand, police said.

Just what motivated the men, who are still at large, remains under investigation, local and federal authorities said. But as word of the incident spread Monday, for many American Sikhs much of it rang all too familiar.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Sikhs have often been subjected to violence or harassment by people who mistakenly perceive them as Muslim. Between anti-immigrant and anti-foreigner political rhetoric and the recent terrorist attacks in Paris and San Bernardino, several members of the Sikh community said the animosity has felt recently like it's at an all-time high.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 29, 2015 - 07:20am PT
Right. So I'm very liberal on social issues, isolationist on foreign policy/war mongering, somewhat conservative on fiscal issues. Not anti-govt or teabagger by any stretch, mostly a fiscal con on military (needs to be cut by about 50% or more).

Anyway, as a liberal, I should support unions, yes? Well in general principle, I do. Reading Upton Sinclair's 'The Jungle' as a kid hammered that one home. In practice though? I've been union once. It was a joke.

When I first moved to California, I took an engineering job with Caltrans. We were rep'd by an professional engineers union. Later, I was transferred into an environmental planner position (due to furloughs and bond sales being cut off, when my projects were bond supported).

That put me out of the Engineers union, into the one the environmental and other planners were in, which was....wait for it....SEIU. Yeah, SERVICE employees. Huge union nationwide, one of the biggest.

Now what the f*#k do janitors and food service workers have to do with a bunch of white collar people with masters degrees doing professional planning work? A: Nothing. Our entire class of env. planners felt we were being poorly represented, getting shitty pay and benefits (and we were, I quit within 6mo after the transfer in class due to the pay cut).

So we attempted to de-cerifty from SEIU, to be rep'd by the engineers union instead. Hell, half of us had civil engineering degrees and were wildly underpaid compared to any similar job in govt or the private sector. We followed the burdensome de-cert process, we had reams of documentation and over 90% of the class had signed the petition to de-cert from SEIU. Political strings were pulled by SEIU, and we were denied the switch to the engineers union (which that union supported, btw, it's wasn't like they didn't want to rep us).

Closest I've come to getting into a fist fight on the job was during the next meeting with the SEIU union rep. As he kept dodging questions about the decert attempt and blowing smoke about how well they were fighting for our class. We literally ran the guy out the building under threat of bodily harm. I quit the job shortly after, followed by about half my colleagues.

So in theory? Great. In practice? Not for me.

My brother, otoh, is an IBEW master electrician. It has been great for him, as he got the formal union electrical apprenticeship education (which included a lot of book/school type work as well as ojt everyday), good pay, good benefits, never lacked for work. He has owned his own company for the last decade and is wildly successful in that, and of our siblings he is the only one without a degree and makes about 2x what any of the rest of us make. So, you know, like most things, it depends.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Dec 29, 2015 - 07:35am PT
Jesus Gary, you libs just don't get it son!!!

These beetings are a direct result of the Affluenza epidemic and the OG Whites are sufferin!

These dark skinned folks have it made! Government handouts, yummy ethnic food, hot barefoot nubiles, bullet ball with the cops for fun...

Try being white and privlaged for ONE DAY!

ElCap- Quit being me!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 29, 2015 - 07:58am PT
Obama's fault, of course - he must have flipped some switch the moment he took over as president....)

shut up!




pyro: Brilliant analysis, as always. Here's the difference between unions and 1%ers:

double shut up! steward I'm happy u think im a 1% er..
although I'm just a hard worker keeping up with the Kardashians..

unions are un American.. long live the Capitalist life style


edit: Donald is getting it on with Minorites..

http://mobile.wnd.com/2015/12/minorities-line-up-behind-donald-trump/#RgUokOwvlQXh4CLv.99
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 29, 2015 - 08:27am PT
unions are un American..

Sure. If you consider the 8 hr work day, lunch breaks, and just about every other employment benefit you enjoy (whether union or not), to be "un American".

You have those kind of things because of the work of unions in the past. No surprise that a half-literate clown fellating T-Rump would spout such idiocy though, given T-Rump supporters are clocking an average IQ of about 68.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 29, 2015 - 09:38am PT
Sure. If you consider the 8 hr work day, lunch breaks, and just about every other employment benefit you enjoy (whether union or not), to be "un American".


Well unions take credit for that, but the 8 hr day preceded the union movement. Guilds in England and Germany had a 10 hr day with 2 hrs for meals in the 1700's. Boston ship carpenters, though not unionized, got the 8 hr day in 1842.

England had an 8 hr day for children before that (1819?)

At about that time, the first general 8 hr day in Europe was in Catalonia, where a general strike forced concessions including the 8 hr day and the right to FORM unions. The 8 hr day preceded the actual unions. It was the revolution of 1848, not the union movement, that began the 8 hr day trend in Europe, and non union textile workers in Lyon that kicked that off. Read les miserables.

The non union company I moved to was a real old school place. Carpenters wore overalls and used folding rules, and used hand planes. Most of the guys I learned from were in their 60's and 70's, and I got some of my tools by buying them from the older guys when they retired. It was tradition you paid top dollar to give them a little boost for retirement.

Non-management people worked a 50 hr week, 5 hrs of which was optional on Saturday mornings cleaning out the mill, your trucks, and the attached lumber yard and was more social than anything. It was a small town with not much else to do.You only got to do that if you already had your 45 hrs in that week.

That left 9 hour days. At least an hour of that was for travel to and from the mill where the trucks were stored, and 1/2 hr. lunch came out of the remaining 8 hrs. we were essentially getting paid for our commute to the job at overtime rate.

It encouraged promptness, because if you were late, you were docked that overtime hour and had to find your own way to the job. ( and didn't get a shot at the Saturday time and a half) The upshot was we made a little more than the prevailing union wage by the hour of actual work. Those guys didn't get paid until they were on a job site. It was a pretty sweet deal, and the company was considered to be the anchor construction company in the region. There were a lot of guys who had their whole careers there and left with pensions. Several guys got their 50 yr watches the years I was there.

It was as good a deal as the last 20 years I was in the industry, was a salaried employee with profit sharing, and probably averaged well over 50 hrs as 'management', and had to manage my own retirement plan.

The experience with people I know in the private sector is that the 8 hr day is a myth.

A Gallup poll last year concluded that 40% of workers work a 40 hr week. The national average is 46.5 hrs, Not counting the commute, and 50% work more than that. The trend is to make employees salaried and to keep your job and advance, you do way more than 40 hrs.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 29, 2015 - 09:51am PT
Lorezno, we don't live in England or Germany. And yeah, I'm management too, not union and as I said above, was union once and despised it. But pretending that organized labor fighting for it wasn't how we got away from 14hr/d 6-7day/wk work is a bit absurd.

History of the Eight Hour Workday in the US:

In the United States, Philadelphia carpenters went on strike in 1791 for the ten-hour day. By the 1830s, this had become a general demand. In 1835, workers in Philadelphia organized the first general strike in North America, led by Irish coal heavers. Their banners read, From 6 to 6, ten hours work and two hours for meals.[9] Labor movement publications called for an eight-hour day as early as 1836. Boston ship carpenters, although not unionized, achieved an eight-hour day in 1842.

In 1864, the eight-hour day quickly became a central demand of the Chicago labor movement. The Illinois legislature passed a law in early 1867 granting an eight-hour day but had so many loopholes that it was largely ineffective. A city-wide strike that began on May 1, 1867 shut down the city's economy for a week before collapsing.

On June 25, 1868, Congress passed an eight-hour law for federal employees[10][11] which was also of limited effectiveness. It established an eight-hour workday for laborers and mechanics employed by the Federal Government. President Andrew Johnson had vetoed the act but it was passed over his veto. Johnson told a Workingmen's party delegation that he couldn't directly commit himself to an eight-hour day, he nevertheless told the same delegation that he greatly favoured the "shortest number of hours consistent with the interests of all." According to Richard F. Selcer, however, the intentions behind the law were "immediately frustrated" as wages were cut by 20%.[12]

On May 19, 1869, President Ulysses Grant issued a National Eight Hour Law Proclamation.[13]

In August 1866, the National Labor Union at Baltimore passed a resolution that said, "The first and great necessity of the present to free labour of this country from capitalist slavery, is the passing of a law by which eight hours shall be the normal working day in all States of the American Union. We are resolved to put forth all our strength until this glorious result is achieved."

During the 1870s, eight hours became a central demand, especially among labor organizers, with a network of Eight-Hour Leagues which held rallies and parades. A hundred thousand workers in New York City struck and won the eight-hour day in 1872, mostly for building trades workers. In Chicago, Albert Parsons became recording secretary of the Chicago Eight-Hour League in 1878, and was appointed a member of a national eight-hour committee in 1880.

At its convention in Chicago in 1884, the Federation of Organized Trades and Labor Unions resolved that "eight hours shall constitute a legal day's labour from and after May 1, 1886, and that we recommend to labour organizations throughout this jurisdiction that they so direct their laws as to conform to this resolution by the time named."

The leadership of the Knights of Labor, under Terence V. Powderly, rejected appeals to join the movement as a whole, but many local Knights assemblies joined the strike call including Chicago, Cincinnati and Milwaukee. On May 1, 1886, Albert Parsons, head of the Chicago Knights of Labor, with his wife Lucy Parsons and two children, led 80,000 people down Michigan Avenue, Chicago, in what is regarded as the first modern May Day Parade, in support of the eight-hour day. In the next few days they were joined nationwide by 350,000 workers who went on strike at 1,200 factories, including 70,000 in Chicago, 45,000 in New York, 32,000 in Cincinnati, and additional thousands in other cities. Some workers gained shorter hours (eight or nine) with no reduction in pay; others accepted pay cuts with the reduction in hours.

On May 3, 1886, August Spies, editor of the Arbeiter-Zeitung (Workers Newspaper), spoke at a meeting of 6,000 workers, and afterwards many of them moved down the street to harass strikebreakers at the McCormick plant in Chicago. The police arrived, opened fire, and killed four people, wounding many more. At a subsequent rally on May 4 to protest this violence, a bomb exploded at the Haymarket Square. Hundreds of labour activists were rounded up and the prominent labour leaders arrested, tried, convicted, and executed giving the movement its first martyrs. On June 26, 1893 Illinois Governor John Peter Altgeld set the remaining leader free, and granted full pardons to all those tried claiming they were innocent of the crime for which they had been tried and the hanged men had been the victims of "hysteria, packed juries and a biased judge".

The American Federation of Labor, meeting in St Louis in December 1888, set May 1, 1890 as the day that American workers should work no more than eight hours. The International Workingmen's Association (Second International), meeting in Paris in 1889, endorsed the date for international demonstrations, thus starting the international tradition of May Day.

The United Mine Workers won an eight-hour day in 1898.

The Building Trades Council (BTC) of San Francisco, under the leadership of P.H. McCarthy, won the eight-hour day in 1900 when the BTC unilaterally declared that its members would work only eight hours a day for $3 a day. When the mill resisted, the BTC began organizing mill workers; the employers responded by locking out 8,000 employees throughout the Bay Area. The BTC, in return, established a union planing mill from which construction employers could obtain supplies — or face boycotts and sympathy strikes if they did not. The mill owners went to arbitration, where the union won the eight-hour day, a closed shop for all skilled workers, and an arbitration panel to resolve future disputes. In return, the union agreed to refuse to work with material produced by non-union planing mills or those that paid less than the Bay Area employers.

By 1905, the eight-hour day was widely installed in the printing trades – see International Typographical Union (section) – but the vast majority of Americans worked 12-14 hour days.

In the 1912 Presidential Election Teddy Roosevelts Progressive Party campaign platform included the eight hour work day.

On January 5, 1914, the Ford Motor Company took the radical step of doubling pay to $5 a day and cut shifts from nine hours to eight, moves that were not popular with rival companies, although seeing the increase in Ford's productivity, and a significant increase in profit margin (from $30 million to $60 million in two years), most soon followed suit.[14][15][16][17]

In the summer of 1915, amid increased labor demand for World War I, a series of strikes demanding the eight-hour day began in Bridgeport, Connecticut. They were so successful that they spread throughout the Northeast.[18]

The United States Adamson Act in 1916 established an eight-hour day, with additional pay for overtime, for railroad workers. This was the first federal law that regulated the hours of workers in private companies. The United States Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the Act in Wilson v. New, 243 U.S. 332 (1917).

The eight-hour day might have been realized for many working people in the U.S. in 1937, when what became the Fair Labor Standards Act (29 U.S. Code Chapter 8) was first proposed under the New Deal. As enacted, the act applied to industries whose combined employment represented about twenty percent of the U.S. labor force. In those industries, it set the maximum workweek at 40 hours,[19] but provided that employees working beyond 40 hours a week would receive additional overtime bonus salaries.[20]
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 29, 2015 - 09:56am PT
Hmmm. So the first 8 hr day in this country was by shipyard carpenters in Boston, who had no union.

Thanks for clarifying.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2014/09/02/the-average-work-week-is-now-47-hours/

41% of American workers are salaried.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/09/american-workers-paid-hourly-59-percent_n_1659001.html
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 29, 2015 - 11:04am PT
for u elcapertans ass

unions are not needed when ur busting ur ass off day in and day out..



Steve Jobs: Self Made
Warren Buffett: Self Made
Michael Jordan: Self Made
Ben Carson: Self Made
Colin Powell: Self Made

The list goes on and on and on. NOT one whined about wealth inequality or how society is unjust or...

Why? They were too busy busting their asses day in and day out for many years, staying focused and not allowing anything to get in the way in order to achieve their dreams and goals.

What a concept...

CHIEF
John M

climber
Dec 29, 2015 - 11:08am PT
That list is way funny. Super intelligence and super talent… gosh.. they had it rough, but they made it. Way way way too funny..

Unions are about protecting the average joe from the much more powerful. Do they work all the time? nope.. I hated working in one. But I also see the need.

yep.. I said "way" three whole times.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 29, 2015 - 11:12am PT
Unions are about protecting the average joe from the much more powerful.

weak minded.. u did climb el cap without a guide right..


I gotta friend who works Budweiser factory tells me all about the BS unions.. i am a conduit.
John M

climber
Dec 29, 2015 - 11:27am PT
I even tie my own shoe laces… Woot !!!

once again.. comparing the Chief ,who is one of the strongest willed people out there to the average person is just ignorant. Most climbers, at least old school climbers, are stronger willed then the average person.

dirtbag

climber
Dec 29, 2015 - 11:31am PT

The list goes on and on and on. NOT one whined about wealth inequality or how society is unjust or...

This is untrue anyway. Buffett said there is class warfare, and his class won. He has repeatedly stated the system is rigged and needs to change.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 29, 2015 - 11:36am PT
Unions are about protecting the average joe from the much more powerful.

What got me started was the statement that unions were good for ALL people.
They aren't. If they good for union workers, that's fine.

But don't pretend they care much about the 93% of the non union folks out there. Perhaps if they were more inclusive they wouldn't have dropped from their high of 34% of the labor force.

And they became corrupt, which didn't help their mission.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 29, 2015 - 11:37am PT
pyro listed
Steve Jobs: Self Made
Warren Buffett: Self Made
Michael Jordan: Self Made
Ben Carson: Self Made
Colin Powell: Self Made


So how come you aren't a "self-made" multi-billionaire, author or Secretary of State, pyro? I mean if it's really that easy.

Steve Jobs: Given up for adoption at birth by a poor mother he was raised middle class by working professionals. Creative genius
Warren Buffet: Son of a Congressman. Investment genius.
Michael Jordan: Grew up middle class. Coached and played basketball through public school system, then college basketball through government subsidized NCAA on a scholarship at a state school. Basketball genius
Ben Carson: Grew up on welfare. Went to Yale on a scholarship. Med school at a state school. Neurosurgical genius.
Colin Powell: C student in high school but excelled after joining the military and stayed in the military for 35 years. I don't know that anybody who actually serves in the military thinks that they got everything without any help from anyone.

Only one person on your list grew up poor and he had lots of government help and likely assistance from affirmative action. All of them excelled beyond even those with huge advantages. None of them would have become who they are without some help of some sort. Oh yeah...and they were pretty much all geniuses.



Lorenzo posted
What got me started was the statement that unions were good for ALL people.
They aren't. If they good for union workers, that's fine.

But don't pretend they care much about the 93% of the non union folks out there. Perhaps if they were more inclusive they wouldn't have dropped from their high of 34% of the labor force.

A lot of the benefits that we take for granted as part of a "good" job exist because of unions. A lot of the labor laws we take for granted exist because of unions. If you are a non-union shop and you have to compete for workers with union shops you can't tell me the unions aren't helping the workers of non-union places.

And they became corrupt, which didn't help their mission

Absolutely true in many cases. However, why do we get upset about union corruption and abuses but accept corruption on the part of management as just part of doing business?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 29, 2015 - 01:44pm PT
A lot of the benefits that we take for granted as part of a "good" job exist because of unions. A lot of the labor laws we take for granted exist because of unions. If you are a non-union shop and you have to compete for workers with union shops you can't tell me the unions aren't helping the workers of non-union places.

Hmmm...

A union took my job, so that's a hard sell, and again, lots of the gains came from politics, not unions.


Absolutely true in many cases. However, why do we get upset about union corruption and abuses but accept corruption on the part of management as just part of doing business?

Ok, now you need to find a quote of mine where I said that.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 29, 2015 - 01:58pm PT
So how come you aren't a "self-made" multi-billionaire, author or Secretary of State, pyro? I mean if it's really that easy

I'm working on it got 38 more years before retire hope I can invent or produce money..

Hidesert If u have a question directed toward the Chief then maybe u should start a FB page and become social.. You see ur avatar is effing stupid u show no content.. I'm friends with the Chief and it's an awesome thing.. We met on supertopo and now I get to see what kinda fish he catches. nice concept right networking is a beautiful thing..


also yesterday u wanted to post the latest news you forgot this one..



https://www.rt.com/usa/327300-pentagon-guantanamo-prisoners-obama/



once again.. comparing the Chief ,who is one of the strongest willed people out there to the average person is just ignorant. Most climbers, at least old school climbers, are stronger willed then the average person.

you can do it J.M I have faith in ur strength..
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 29, 2015 - 02:15pm PT
pyro: shut up...? devastating response. I didn't say you were a 1%er. I said that you're an idiot. And a Fascist.

Lorenzo et al: Perhaps you didn't read my post carefully - At no time did I say that unions were perfect, but in comparison to how profits from the labour of average people are being plundered by 1%ers, they are still the ONLY hope for fair wages and a decent standard of living for average citizens.

Please go back a few pages in this thread to locate the graph to see for yourself how, since the '80s, 1%er income gains compare to the salaries of working people.

EDIT: to save everyone the trouble, it's post #1947 . Have a look. Read it and weep.
pinckbrown

Trad climber
Woodfords, CA
Dec 29, 2015 - 02:23pm PT
I worked for a Union job and loved it.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 29, 2015 - 02:29pm PT
I hope Chief is doing well.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 29, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
Couple pages of great anecdotal stories, good points... Lorenzo, ElCap, Happie, HDDJ
I always thought unions were very American, though I have never been in one.
Heard horror stories both sides, but unions are responsible for many worker's rights.
They're dying out in the private sector

In recent times I am coming to see public sector unions as problematic.
These were always considered conflicts of interest by both parties until I think Kennedy signed legislation.
Public employee pension obligations are a big problem.
Jim Brannan wrote:
Looking out for yourself should be a basic skill in life.
Wise words, those.

John M wrote:
comparing the Chief ,who is one of the strongest willed people out there to the average person is just ignorant. Most climbers, at least old school climbers, are stronger willed then the average person.
So true about the old school...lol...
and good to hear about the Chief
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 29, 2015 - 06:52pm PT
Larry Nelson: Looking out for yourself is a great idea until it turns into abuse of the powerless.

Looking out for others is what makes someone a member of the human race. I believe it was Jesus who said "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

He also said something about camels and eyes of needles.


zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 29, 2015 - 07:11pm PT
150 years ago Jobs would have been hung as a horse thief.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 29, 2015 - 07:12pm PT
He also said something about camels and eyes of needles.

What did he know? He admitted his yoke was easy and his burden light.

And he did promise to each according to his works.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 29, 2015 - 07:36pm PT
Hey Stewart
What I took from Jim's words is that self sufficiency has been and should be a necessary skill. Cover yo azz.

The other part I see separate. How we treat the less powerful is a testimony to each of our individual virtues, hopefully enriching the culture as well.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 29, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
James: If you had the sense to actually consider the point that I (clearly) was making when I told that story - let me know if any of this is too complicated for you - first, I REPEATED that unions aren't always perfect. Then, by example, I mentioned the time that a union representing exactly the same kind of workers as I was asked me not to cross their picket line. I told them that I wouldn't cross it if they would sign me up as a union member.

In the union world, this is considered a routine obligation. This obligation is referred to organizing the non-unionized, and union members worthy of the name consider this to be a good thing. This guy expected me to lose my job and refused to offer me the opportunity to become one of their members who AGAIN were doing doing exactly the same kind of work as I was.

As I said, in spite of my proud support for the right of workers to unionize, I consider it ridiculous for anyone to expect another human being to voluntarily lose his job without offering him an inducement to do so. It's called looking after yourself.

Yeah - you're a real leftie alright, James - just like Ayn Rand.

If any of this is too difficult for you to understand, perhaps you can locate an adult to explain it to you.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 29, 2015 - 09:10pm PT
“The scab is a traitor to his God, his mother, and his class.” -- Jack London
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 29, 2015 - 09:30pm PT
Responsible unions are not in the business of screwing unorganized workers. I am and was enough of an idealist that I would have respected their picket line if they had granted me membership in their organization.

You are making a mockery of the concept of self-interest. What they asked me to do what no union worthy of the name could rationally expect, which was to lose my job for their own gain without offering me the slightest rational reason to do so.

Unlike you, I am well acquainted with how responsible unions operate and responsible unions would have, at the absolute minimum, contacted at LEAST one of the unaffiliated workers, warned them of the impending strike, and offered to sign them up if they supported their actions, or at the absolute minimum, offered some other tangible inducement in return for their co-operation. There are few people in the union movement who are so deluded as to expect another human being to help someone else can gain a benefit from the employer at the expense of his own instant poverty.

Get a grip, James. Self-interest can be claimed to motivate nearly every single thing a human being does. Here's a simple example: few people are "idealistic" enough to give all of their money to the poor, or else this would immediately place them within their ranks. Those who attempt to do good works for those less fortunate than themselves give what they can afford & continue to do so while they still have available financial means.

And so on.

Your logic can, and often is, stretched to ludicrous extremes with your anti-union vendetta. Congratulation on being the phoniest "leftie" I've ever encountered on Supertopo.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 29, 2015 - 09:45pm PT
Different times nowadays, but I've always been fortunate to avoid these kinds of scenarios.
"In response to the right-to-work law, unions in many workplaces have resorted to publicly posting the names of employees who choose not to become members. Local 412 appears to be the first to urge employees in a unionized workplace to shun their fellow workers who have opted out."

http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/22035

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 29, 2015 - 09:52pm PT
What category of SUTPID do I fit in???...

Tsk...tsk..

Locker. Too easy.
Joron

Trad climber
Hoodland, Oregon
Dec 29, 2015 - 09:58pm PT
I was a union carpenter for 37 years. I don't care how you slice it, for a working person, a guy swinging a hammer, the union can't be beat. Excellent apprenticeship/training programs, health insurance and a good pension. The highest skilled, most productive craftsmen will migrate to the highest paid positions - a union project! I apprenticed under some amazing craftsmen, that were always in high demand and paid above scale. Unions aren't perfect by a long shot, but for the construction business its not a bad way to go.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 30, 2015 - 02:14am PT
I propose an elagaitarian society, wherein the difference between Top Dog and Loser is not so extreme.

A guy who is so capable, and so successful should also be a human being, and assist others in society.


How many Aspen Ski Chalets does a real man need, to show that he is successful?



A guy who grabs all the food, and becomes fat, while other people starve, is not a winner. He is the worst sort of Loser.



Unless you are a sociopath, the game is to help society as a whole.


If a single person is born with unusual skills, genetics, financing or other rare advantages, it is unethical for that person to hoard those advantages, and only utilize those advantages to enrich himself.


Civilization = sharing

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 06:10am PT
Lorenzo posted
Ok, now you need to find a quote of mine where I said that.

I never said that you said it? I mention it because those in the greater conversation that rail on unions (despite their massively diminished influence) frequently defend the political influence of corporations as a whole and the abusive labor practices that unions were designed to protect against. Look at what has happened with workman's comp for instance. Or the increasing share of health insurance costs that workers are paying despite stagnant wages.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 07:27am PT
I was a union carpenter for 37 years. I don't care how you slice it, for a working person, a guy swinging a hammer, the union can't be beat. Excellent apprenticeship/training programs, health insurance and a good pension. The highest skilled, most productive craftsmen will migrate to the highest paid positions - a union project! I apprenticed under some amazing craftsmen, that were always in high demand and paid above scale. Unions aren't perfect by a long shot, but for the construction business its not a bad way to go.


Joron.... exactly.



Back to the Topic.

I was at one of my favorite liquor stores, picking up some ale. This is one of those stores run by Mideastern types (They are from Syria)... we always talk mideast politics.........

Every one of those Syrians, all 5 of them, is going to vote Trump...... "My friend Guy... we can't let a bunch of those people into our country..."

maybe they know something.



HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 07:35am PT
guyman posted
Every one of those Syrians, all 5 of them, is going to vote Trump...... "My friend Guy... we can't let a bunch of those people into our country..."

Did you ask them if they support Assad? Dollars to donuts they do.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 30, 2015 - 07:47am PT
Jim, Stewart, that London quote was meant as a general observation, not aimed at anyone here.

My main gripe with 21st century unions is they seemed to have stopped any sort of organizing work.

Unions did too good a job, perhaps. The workers forgot what had come before them, the sacrifices made by those in the past. They forgot that people fought and died to bring them to a better place. They took their prosperity for granted, and so they started voting for Reagan and his ilk.

The ILWU does a very good job of letting their members know their history, and that's one of the reasons they remain strong and united to this day.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 30, 2015 - 08:03am PT
I was a union carpenter for 37 years. I don't care how you slice it, for a working person, a guy swinging a hammer, the union can't be beat.

times have changed UNIONS are going out no matter how you SLICE it..

Have friend who is a principle for Simi Valley high school and would love to fire some of those lazy union teachers.. anything is an excuse when it comes to those Average Joe's that cant get to work on time..

UNIONS are bad for business.. in my opinion it's Un American..


creates a "BOILING Frog"..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 30, 2015 - 08:25am PT
UNIONS are bad for business.. in my opinion it's Un American..

You're wrong. America is a UNION of states. When farmers opening up new land built a barn, did they do it themselves? No! They had a barn raising party where all their neighbors came together to help him out.

In 1776 we told those English elites to get the hell out. This new wave of Robber Barons is what's unAmerican.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 30, 2015 - 08:31am PT
You're wrong.

it's kinda funny where I work you have to get special security clearance.. I watch the union workers stand outside the building they are not ALLOWED inside the special rooms..


gary get ur head outta past UNIONS are on the way out.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 30, 2015 - 08:40am PT
Union membership in the private sector below 7%. Lowest level since 1932.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 30, 2015 - 08:43am PT
"When farmers opening up new land built a barn, did they do it themselves? No! They had a barn raising party where all their neighbors came together to help him out."


SSSSSOOOOOCCCCIIIIAAAALLLLISSSSSMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!169
monolith

climber
state of being
Dec 30, 2015 - 08:45am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 09:29am PT
Did you ask them if they support Assad? Dollars to donuts they do.

HDDJ.... Wrong. They are Armenians whose ancestors survived the Turkish genocide and ended up in Syria. They are Christians.... and they are no fans of Assad.

I think if you know anything about the mid east you will see that things are not as simple as our media and politico types wish you to believe.

And Pyro.... IMHO Unions are good for some things. For example, you need to build a skyscraper ( i'm sure Mr. Trump can explain better than I) the company building the skyscraper needs about 100 welders who know their sh#t. They need to know their sh#t cause the big ass company that will insure the skyscraper demands that the skyscraper be built correctly (will not fall down due to sloppy welds- if Weld-It was around he could really explain)... anyway its much cheaper for the company building the skyscraper to pay sky-hi wages because these are temporary workers who will not be needed when the building is completed. So its really cheaper to pay a ton and be assured of quality work. This is a good example of a private company and another private company doing business.

Now the other type of Union are Public Unions. These suck, mostly because they provide nothing similar to what the welders provide. (Hi-skilled, trained... at union expense, temporary workers) For example: The fireman's union, Cop Union, DWP Union, these are all skilled and dangerous jobs that require lots of training. These folks got together and agree to go on strike if they don't get their way ... they do and the Politicians (elected officials) negotiate with them and it gets worked out and everybody goes back to work... for as long as "the contract" is in effect. This worked out OK for a long time, but things start to get out of wack when the Politicians use $$$$$$$ they they get from the Unions to get elected. These bought and paid for politicians will now agree to just about any demands these Unions make even if a CPA can show that the pay, benefits and terms of the agreement will run the public (your city, county, state gov) out of $$$$$$ in the future. This just what that skumbag Grey Davis did when he was governor.... he gave away the farm, so to speak, with zero regard for us taxpayers and the future.

And lastly, The absolute worst Unions are the ones where the unionized members are low skilled or have a certain level of EDUCATION..... The teachers, DMV workers, EHS professionals, Architects, Environmental Scientists, Burger Flippers and lots of general government workers (folks on the GS scale) .... these types come up with all sorts justification as to why they deserve MORE $$$$$ and better benefits that people doing the same work as they do in what is called "the private sector" .....
Pretty simple No?

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 09:34am PT
Guyman posted
HDDJ.... Wrong. They are Armenians whose ancestors survived the Turkish genocide and ended up in Syria. They are Christians.... and they are no fans of Assad.

I think if you know anything about the mid east you will see that things are not as simple as our media and politico types wish you to believe.

Most Christians in Syria support Assad because he provided them relative safety compared with the alternatives. I have had a number of patients who were Syrians, Christians and very supportive of Assad for that reason.

Guyman posted
Now the other type of Union are Public Unions. These suck, mostly because they provide nothing similar to what the welders provide. (Hi-skilled, trained... at union expense, temporary workers)

Um...Unions provide their members with representation for collective bargaining. That's the whole point. They serve their members.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 09:36am PT
A barn building is not Socialism, it's cooperation.... and in places where this is/was common.... you owed a debt to all of the people who came and helped put up that barn.

Socialism is where the government will force you to go help out....

there is a difference
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 09:38am PT
Um...Unions provide their members with representation for collective bargaining. That's the whole point. They serve their members.


Quite true.... only their members and not anybody else.
Norton

Social climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 09:40am PT
Great all American video, Mono!

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 30, 2015 - 09:49am PT
Thanks, mono. Really funny (and accurate).
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 09:49am PT
guyman posted
Socialism is where the government will force you to go help out....

Socialism is a form of government/economics where the government owns the means of production.

guyman continued
Quite true....[unions] only their members and not anybody else.

As opposed to the companies that the employ the workers which are selfless organizations that only serve the greater good?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 10:10am PT
As opposed to the companies that the employ the workers which are selfless organizations that only serve the greater good?

HDDJ.... where in the world do you get the idea that companies work for the greater good? Come on now, I know your smarter than that.

Companies exist to make money.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 10:12am PT
......
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 30, 2015 - 10:57am PT
Pyro.... IMHO Unions are good for some things. For example, you need to build a skyscraper ( i'm sure Mr. Trump can explain better than I) the company building the skyscraper needs about 100 welders who know their sh#t. They need to know their sh#t cause the big ass company that will insure the skyscraper demands that the skyscraper be built correctly

guyman happy new year!

my buddy Sam is a commercial under water construction worker and they aint got no UNION.. and he comes over to the house spending money left and right.. as for the Skyscraper builders just pay em what they are worth and use an HR dept. plenty of laws out there these days to ensure quality work place environment for the so called big bad union workers..

UNIONS are outta style and bad for Business.

we need to make money

im gonna invent a big machine that build a skyscraper in weeks with 1/2 the workers.. it'll put the skyscraper union outta business.


here is an article from October where Obama was talking about automation unions etc.. he'll probably create a UNION for robots..
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:09am PT
Pyro... Hi, Happy New Years to you....

You missed the point about Union guys being TEMPORARY workers. The skyscraper building company doesn't need a HR dept cause they just call the Union Hall.

It works for them and the welders.

Now your friend might just work for a company who wishes to have there own staff. Lots of reasons for this.... its a choice the company makes.

I know you work in a really capitalistic business, making chips is a great example of innovation, creativity and production in action. No way a Union Shop Steward can call the shots in that environment. The yield would quickly go to about 5%. LOL

Take care my friend.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:15am PT
thanks guyman!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:27am PT
guyman, did you just put teachers and burger flippers in the same category of worst unions?
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:31am PT
im gonna invent a big machine that build a skyscraper in weeks with 1/2 the workers.. it'll put the skyscraper union outta business.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:33am PT
pyro posted
as for the Skyscraper builders just pay em what they are worth and use an HR dept. plenty of laws out there these days to ensure quality work place environment for the so called big bad union workers..


Then please explain why so many workers do not make a living wage and are exploited by their employers. Pay withheld, overtime laws ignored, workman's comp ignored or gone without, women paid less than men for the same job, etc etc etc.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:37am PT
guyman, did you just put teachers and burger flippers in the same category of worst unions?

Yes... I know its way over the top but I do see similarities but there are big differences. Teachers do put in the time in school and have to continuously undergo training. ( I do know many teachers, married to one )

Many teachers I know, hate the union they are forced to join and pay dues to and these same teachers tell me that the Union is one of the BIG PROBLEMS with making our educational system preform again, like it use to.

Burger flippers or any JOB that you can teach to someone in less than a hour do not need unions or for that matter the government via the minimum wage.

edit for clarity

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:38am PT
women paid less than men for the same job


Ha.. the big Democrat lie....

that might have been true in like 1975, but not any more.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:40am PT
Really? I'd love to see some data backing that up.


guyman posted
Burger flippers or any JOB that you can teach to someone in less than a hour do not need unions or for that matter the government via the minimum wage.


You really, really don't understand what unions are for.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:41am PT
Really? I'd love to see some data backing that up

yess HDDJ... back up your claim.

I work in private business... I don't see it at all.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:51am PT
Are you here to roleplay or something?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:54am PT

women paid less than men for the same job


Ha.. the big Democrat lie....

that might have been true in like 1975, but not any more.


well, that raises the question whether men and women are promoted to the same level, doesn't it?



http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/cps/highlights-of-womens-earnings-in-2014.pdf
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 01:12pm PT
HDDJ....
Are you here to roleplay or something?

IMHO... that is a stupid question and showes some microagression.

Where I work, we have women who are Directors and I am pretty sure they make the same or more than some of the Men who are Directors.


But in reality this war on women and the pay inequities man vs women is a complete democrat made up lie, backed up with fake statistics.

The real question is this, and we should all be very concerned, why is it now allowed to pay non-American workers much less than American workers????


Are you familiar with something known as the H-1B?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 30, 2015 - 01:21pm PT
Yeah, the bureau of labor statistics is in business to fake stats on labor.
( they transferred over from NASA after faking the moon landings).
You will no doubt provide the "real" statistics. I await them eagerly.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 01:28pm PT
Yeah, the bureau of labor statistics is in business to fake stats on labor.

Yes they are

open up your eyes and look around.... what are they saying the unemployment is today???

5% 6% 7% ......????

zero inflation..... ???? that's a laugh.

the wool is firmly planted below your eyes, kind sir.





Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Dec 30, 2015 - 01:37pm PT
why is it now allowed to pay non-American workers much less than American workers????
Are you familiar with something known as the H-1B?

I am intimately familiar with the H-1B visa process, having gone through it twice. But it is not a way to "pay non-American workers much less than American workers." It is set up to bring in non-American professionals to fill positions for which no American is available, and wages must match the wage that would be payed in the local area to an American who was qualified and available.

Is it abused? I'm sure it is. Are some H-1B workers paid less than the local standard for their professional qualifications? I'm sure they are.

But if and when it is abused, it is not because the H-1B visa is designed to get low-paid foreigners into the US, it is because its requirements are not enforced.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
But if and when it is abused, it is not because the H-1B visa is designed to get low-paid foreigners into the US, it is because its requirements are not enforced.

Bingo..... it's abused trust me. From what I have seen... if they make you train your replacement then how special skilled was your job? All of the establishment Repubs and the Hillery democrats are very much in favor of this program.

If your a good Democrat who believes in Unions, the Bernie folks I reckon are in this category, you should be mad as hell.






10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired Climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 01:57pm PT
open up your eyes and look around.... what are they saying the unemployment is today???

5% 6% 7% ......????

I've even heard sanders say that the unemployment rate is closer to 12%.

the problem is that the jobs today are part-time, temporary, or service oriented.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 02:05pm PT
What's it about?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 30, 2015 - 02:07pm PT
Still waiting for the real stats guyman.

If you expect us to get on board, you gotta pay the freight.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 30, 2015 - 02:21pm PT
WTF very interesting nobody can get the data!!!

is this on youtube.. maybe dirt can then watch it most supertopo-pensioners are non facebookers.
dirtbag

climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 02:33pm PT
What's the topic? My video watching ability is limited.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 03:01pm PT
Still waiting for the real stats guyman.

If you expect us to get on board, you gotta pay the freight.

Lorenzo... you got me... I will go and see what I can find tonight.

But let me ask you this. These people whose stats you point to drop you off of the unemployed list (they stop counting you) as soon as your unemployment runs out.

Now if they wanted real life true stats why would they do that????


Sort of reminds me when the Reagan administration changed the way we looked at inflation. They changed just what was included into figuring the inflation rate. A good way to make it look like his team was fixing the problem.

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 30, 2015 - 03:09pm PT
Guy, they don't stop counting you as unemployed when your UI runs out. They stop counting you if you stop looking for work. If you aren't actively seeking work, you are not considered part of the labor pool. Makes sense.

There is also not one single definition or measure of unemployment. There are many ways to measure and the govt publishes all those measures. You've probably heard of "U-6" etc.

It's not simple. Neither are inflation measures, which again are not a single thing. What you typically see is "CPI" the consumer price index, which takes a standard "basket of goods" that represent what a tpypical family might buy. This does not include some of the more volatile things people buy, because the stats would swing all over the place and make it hard to judge the effects/level of overall price levels.

Nuance, it's what's for dinner.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 03:17pm PT
So, please, enough of the bullshit about govt engineers being "overpaid".

Elcap.... you explained it very nicely. You trade security (not being part of the private bizz and all the wonderful ups and downs that entails)for security. I really get that, I do.

but I must ask this.... why in the heck do we need non-military folks working on a military base in the first place? Surely some junior officer could do your job for the regular military pay. They do teach planning at Annapolis. I grew up in the Military and having civilians around was almost unheard of. My father and his crew were launching and using satellites way before private sector people were needed.

The whole idea of private sector dudes needed in the service is something new. I could never figure out why the Bush admin needed "private contractors" to guard a facility in Iraq, at $1,000 day? I thought thats why we have privates in the service, they will work for like $45/day.


They stop counting you if you stop looking for work.


Edit... Yes I know, I stayed looking for work long after my unemployment benefits ran out, but how did they know I was looking or knott? Did they hack my computer/phone????

This does not include some of the more volatile things people buy


Things like FOOD and FUEL you mean.

and don't feel like I hate on you personally, I do not. I just see somethings as being wrong. (civilians in the Military is one of them)
Government EXPERTS is another.




Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 03:41pm PT
From personal experience, I saw that women doing the same job as men in the handbag industry made less.
 Entry salepeople - Men started at a base salary plus 2% commission. Women were NEVER hired as an entry salesperson; they had to "come up" through being an assistant to the top salepeople or owners, and it every one of the women I knew who had to go that route said they had to fight hard to get out from under being assistant. Some were given a few (very small accounts to be appeased, while remaining as aids. The ones who demanded to have their own account list got half of 1% commission. Also, every male got at least ONE decent, large sized account(such as a Kohls, Dillards, Belk). The new to the industry women NEVER got the "gimme"(one which, unless you were so bad at selling that your buyer refused to work with you) generated a decent level of income just from the volume).

 At one of the places, one of the guys who was a lead designer got married, and the company owner gave him a $20K raise "because he would soon be starting a family." No woman who had ever worked for that company recieved any change in compensation when they married or began their families.

 At another, the owner hired this man to be a merchandiser, at 250K, when nobody else in design made over $150K. Thing is - we handled ALL facets of the job he received ourselves before he came on board. The guy had glossed his experience and didn't know jack about fashion trends, marketing, or production - the areas of "expertise" he was brought on to manage.




The new (2015-era) way to hiding the income disparity is with yearly bonuses, which are subjective. Don't believe it? Google is your friend - just ask the question.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 03:57pm PT
Happy.... good examples. How is this company doing now?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 04:20pm PT
guyman just denied that women make less than men for the same work and then changed the subject to H1B's. Now he's on to civilians working on military bases.


the problem is that the jobs today are part-time, temporary, or service oriented.

There's nothing wrong with "service oriented" jobs...we are transitioning to a service oriented economy. That's been predicted for decades. The problem is that the lower paying service jobs do not currently pay a living wage.


The labor numbers are as they are because it is important to have a consistent number counted in a consistent way. Changing it prevents us from being able to compare it to years past. Knowing the "real" unemployment rate doesn't mean anything from an economic standpoint, it's just political. Nobody actually doing policy work looks at one number. If people want work then they will start looking for work again and they will be counted in the unemployment numbers.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 30, 2015 - 04:32pm PT
James how exciting to note your new alliance with pyro.

The right of workers to organize for fair wages and working conditions is a freedom that reasonable people everywhere should recognize as self-evident, and one that I continue to proudly support.

Assuming you have a functioning memory, you would recall that some serious damage was done to the Bill of Rights by the passage of the Bush administration's Patriot Act with the nearly unanimous and hysterical co-operation of Congress. Unread and without debate. A great day for civil liberties in the West. This represented a serious dent in the freedoms of average U.S. citizens, and there has been less than nothing done to address these issues since then has there, James?

You and your new friend pyro should enjoy your "freedom" while you've still got it, because with Trump in power, even phony "lefties", are going to be in the target sights of these 1%er monsters.

Of course pyro and his toxic clones have the freedom to ignore awkward questions. Fascists have successfully ignored their opponents since Mussolini's rise to power - an honest attempt to debate issues with their critics would interfere with the hateful propaganda they attempt to pass off as facts.

There's little doubt that we dislike each other James, but, as objectively as I can manage to state, I honestly can't figure out what on Earth you are trying to say on approximately 50% of your posts, so I exercise my freedom by ignoring them.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Dec 30, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
HDDJ...
If people want work then they will start looking for work again and they will be counted in the unemployment numbers.

So please eplain how that happens???? I am all ears.


Look this IS the Donald thread, you must keep up, HDDJ. It's all about how WE ARE ALL GETTING F-over by the system in place.

Well maybe not you. are you 1%??????



Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 30, 2015 - 05:00pm PT
why in the heck do we need non-military folks working on a military base in the first place?

This is actually a simple one to answer. Two major reasons:

1. There are not sufficient numbers of civil/mechanical/electrical engineers and other similar specialty positions who are in uniform. Not surprising when you think about it. And while you can train virtually any young person to drive a tank, shoot a weapon, cook chow, etc...not everyone is intellectually capable of professional engineering work or accounting, etc, and even if they were, it takes many years to train them.

and equally or more importantly

2. Stability and continuity. The standard career progression in the military requires constant movement from base to base as the officer climbs the ranks. They must continually learn how the miltiary system functions in order to lead and command those functions. So they move from job to job, base to base, to build the skillset needed to progress and assume higher rank and responsibility. So you end up with commanders and other leadership moving around about every two years or so. That means you have no stability, no continuity among the uniformed folk. The ones who stop moving and progressing have essentially hit their career dead end.

I've been on my current base for five years. I've seen four commanders come and go in that time, three JAGs, four deputy group commanders, etc. Without the stable, civilian support workforce, the places would almost cease to function. I have one employee who's been here 23 years, another 27 years. The institutional knowledge these two have, knowing the base inside and out, why things were done or built certain ways, etc and not having those positions vacant because someone just made rank and got moved, that's worth a whole lot.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 30, 2015 - 05:13pm PT
guyman
So please eplain how that happens???? I am all ears.

http://bfy.tw/3Vwg
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 30, 2015 - 05:20pm PT
but how did they know I was looking or knott

The data is collected via surveys. They (I think census actually does it, the stats are then compiled and published by BLS) survey something like 100,000 people every month, and continually change the people that make up the sample each month so that the entire sample turns over a few times a year. Stats wonks can explain to you why that sample size is big enough to get an accurate read for the country.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 30, 2015 - 06:37pm PT
Many teachers I know, hate the union they are forced to join and pay dues to and these same teachers tell me that the Union is one of the BIG PROBLEMS with making our educational system preform again, like it use to.

So, Guy, what are they doing about it? Do they go to meetings? Do they vote in union elections? Do they run for union office or become union stewards?

Unions are democratic institutions. They reflect their membership. You can piss and moan about a bad union, or you can do something about it.

I'm retired from the baker's union. In the '50s an as#@&%e named Jimmy Cross became international president. He was a crook. He slowly fired the organizers and hired hookers. He embezzled funds. It took 12 years of fighting this thug and his goons, but the bakers took back the union.

BTW, I know some teachers who love the union and appreciate what collective bargaining has done for them.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 30, 2015 - 10:25pm PT
James: Thank you for taking the time to collect those epithets.

-Fascist - Look it up in the dictionary. I'm far from the only person who uses that word, and I am using it correctly. It is also appropriately applied when referring to the supporters of Fascism.

-Scum of the Earth - See above.

The bloodiest war in the history of the planet was fought rid our Earth of Fascists, who didn't give a rat's azz about freedom of speech or any other civil liberties.

I have repeatedly been called a "Communist" and a "Socialist" by my poor helpless adversaries, so why aren't you defending ME instead? You claim to be a "leftie".

I most emphatically don't have a political dogma of any sort beyond thinking that we should treat the powerless with kindness and that the 1%ers shouldn't be allowed to steal ALL the money from the other 99%. It's that other 99% who are doing all the work as they try to raise families on their rapidly disappearing crumbs of the economic pie, so I feel that they should be entitled to expect fair wages and decent working conditions.

If you took the trouble to read most of my posts, I actually attempt to provide verifiable information to support my assertions, and periodically encourage people to check things out for themselves and form their own opinions. When the people I am attempting to communicate with continually refuse to provide a response, you bet I get pissed off. Don't try to sell lies on a political forum without expecting to be called on them.

Incidentally, this may have something to do with the seeming disappearance of TGT - He posted a breathtakingly offensive comment about abortion, and I requested verifiable proof from him to support his claim at least twice, and I believe that I was as polite as I could manage - no response and, by the way, I had nothing to do with his apparent vanishing act.

As for my outrage about a Fascist sympathizer using an image of the sanctity of the secret ballot to dodge a question, surely even you have the intelligence to comprehend the irony of this hypocrisy.

I'm sorry I've only responded to about 50% of your post. As I said before, I have considerable difficulty understanding what you're even trying to say sometimes. This is one of them.

Oh, yeah - when scum like dubya Bush and his gang of thugs end up defiling the Oval Office, innocent people end up dead, like the conservatively estimated 100,000 Iraqi civilians. Let's also ignore the thousands of dead and mangled U.S. troops who fought in that unnecessary war. Let's ignore them, because the Bush White House certainly did when they came back.

THINK, James. This isn't a formal dinner party where we're disagreeing about some esoteric climbing matter. This is the real world, and horrible things end up happening when lunatics end up in charge of the most powerful military machine on the planet.

You started this thread, so try to show some leadership for a change and provide your opinions on the policies of Trump.



crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 30, 2015 - 10:33pm PT
Amen, E.J.
The signs are that the rage and frenzy levels will be even higher than usual in 2016. Can’t we at least try to contain them? But by all means, let’s keep arguing. Argument is, or at least ought to be, inherently educational. And we can agree on this: Calling out views you abhor is one of the hallmarks of liberty.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-moment-for-conciliation/2015/12/30/0e86e47a-af07-11e5-b820-eea4d64be2a1_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:03pm PT
Nice critique Stewart :o

this place is as much preschool as it is university tho
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 30, 2015 - 11:05pm PT
There will be blood.

A constant of human history.

The hero's of you wannabe commies were the worst perpetrators of human misery and death in the 20th century.

The Droids supporting such despotic regimes have always sounded like the two idiots stew and crank posting above.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 31, 2015 - 06:23am PT
Whatever, Wasilla Dick. If I could find an app to filter out your bigoted nonsense, I'd get it.

Until then:

http://trumpfilter.com

Few people have dominated the media — particularly online — in 2015 like Donald Trump has. Mentions of the business mogul and Republican presidential candidate are nearly impossible to escape on the Internet, but a new Google Chrome extension called the Trump Filter aims to change that.

The add-on is available in the Chrome web store and has three adjustable levels of filtration — mild, aggressive and vindictive — for the level Donald Trump references that it finds and eliminates from one’s web browsing experience, CNNMoney reports.

The filter was created by Brooklyn-based self-proclaimed “Internet Mathemagician” Rob Spectre, who says he created it not at the behest of any political entity (or anyone else) but “out of a profound sense of annoyance and patriotic duty.”
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 06:49am PT
Cool app, but Trump is so entertaining.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 31, 2015 - 06:55am PT
greasemonkey for trump. classic
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 31, 2015 - 07:05am PT


On my way to work this AM I drove on freeway seen 5 big bad UNION workers looking like they are working hard..

They say it's really hard to get into UNION but once ur in lots $$$ will be given to u.. 5 guys 4 of standing around watching 1 dig a ditch. . I would out work all those guys.. I just can't stand around LOOKING LIKE I WORK HARD..

UNIONS are not needed these day'Z..

Steward ur a ring leader of some sick drum circle in which I could drink that KOOL AID.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Dec 31, 2015 - 07:34am PT
Bring on duh chump.

Expose these authoritarian
dik sucking ball cuppers.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 31, 2015 - 07:36am PT
5 guys 4 of standing around watching 1 dig a ditch

Obviously you've never worked construction. It's not assembly line work.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 07:38am PT
Still waiting for the real stats guyman.

If you expect us to get on board, you gotta pay the freight.

Lorenzo... you got me... I will go and see what I can find tonight.


Didn't have any luck tracking down the real stats?

I didn't see you posted them, but maybe I missed it.

I'd hate to take the bureau of labor statistics as the only source on labor statistics.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:12am PT
Gary I have worked construction..

Yes I DO swing hammers and both ways..


Lorenzo lobotomy unions are on their way out.. haha..
F

climber
away from the ground
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:12am PT
Gary -

Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:14am PT
Again, it's not assembly line factory work. But y'all feel free to feel righteous.
F

climber
away from the ground
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:17am PT
F

climber
away from the ground
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:20am PT
Gary, you're right. Union construction gigs aren't assembly line. They are mafioso stand around jobs.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:28am PT
F those guys look like TUFF men working..




Gary my grandpa worked for Noth American Aviation. One day some chick was organizing a Union walk out.. Grandpa didn't get EMOTIONAL then stayed working for 15 cents an hour.. the next day those union thugs got let go.. GRANDPA got his salary to 75 cents an hour.. He won!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:30am PT
I don't know nothing about construction work and people standing around, but I can tell you about trailwork and standing around.

It's hard physical work, and if I was active every moment of the day, I would have to quit at noon because I'd be so exhausted I'd probably be dangerous.

What I do, as part of the team, is:
 Unload the big boxes which holds the griphoists, cables, slings, chains, biners and other crap.
 Distribute said ingredients to the places they get used. I am usually the one who uncoils the 30, 60 100 and, not infrequently, 150 foot cables in the morning and winds them back up at the end.
 Crank at the griphoists
 Tell the "engineers" when they are wrong in their idea as to how to set something up(this is much detested by them, but more often than not, I am correct).
 Reload boxes at end of work. We have so much crap that, if the box doesn't get packed in a certain way, the stuff won't fit. Then, you have to take most of it out and start over. I am the one who knows what goes in when.


What I do NOT do:
 Climb up sketchy ladders into the trees to wrap slings for the cables
 Work the rockbar on stones, unless nobody else is available and the stone is of a size I can actually do something to
 Chan stones to ready them for hauling
 Hand maneuver/pick up rocks that are over about 200 pounds and 50 pounds, respectively

When I am gripping, the guys chaining up rocks are resting, and when they are chaining up rocks, I am resting.


Passersby have sometimes joked that I am the only one "working" when I am cranking and the others, who have just pebble wrestled in a meaningful way, are regaining their strength for the next go. I have also seen "the scornful look" of some guys, when they see I am "just standing there and watching."

We are ALL working, even when we may look like we aren't. Part of the resting section is being aware of the others, and that can be very helpful, when they are focused on one thing and may not see an impending danger. We have averted injury and potential death because someone "noticed" something about to go wrong. When everyone has their nose to the grindstone, those eyes aren't available.

Maybe it is the same in some of those "construction stand-around" situations....


F

climber
away from the ground
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:39am PT
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:30am PT
I don't know nothing about construction work and people standing around, but I can tell you about trailwork and standing around.

It's hard physical work, and if I was active every moment of the day, I would have to quit at noon because I'd be so exhausted I'd probably be dangerous.

There you go.
There are undoubtedly people who could be more productive constantly throughout the day than you, because of their fitness, and ability to maintain productivity constantly. But for some reason, you have the job instead of them. 'Merica!!
XOXO!! Yay!!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:01am PT
Are highway maintenance workers even unionized where you are? And even if they are, are you so desperate to maintain your current viewpoint that you judge people based on a 30 second vignette of watching them work?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:14am PT
My older brother is a card-carrying Rush Limbaugh fan and member of the airline pilots union - he somehow manages to never see the irony...

I pretty much equally loathe most human institutions - corporations, government, military, unions, churches, etc. But, it is absolutely clear that, without unions, a large percentage of workers will be exploited to all degree possible. It just goes hand-in-hand with this notion fact:

'corporations, absent appropriate government oversight, are indistinguishable from organized crime'
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:21am PT
Donald thinks that American's wages are too high..He thinks American's should work harder so that America can be strong again...Donald lives in a fantasy world if he thinks American's will work harder for less pay...
F

climber
away from the ground
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:23am PT
HDDJ- The first picture wasn't of a maintenance crew, it was a road widening project. It drug on for a loooong time. I watched it happening for months and months. That was a standard scene, every day. Not a single 30 second occurrence. In fact that particular project was the subject of ridicule among locals, and the local newspapers for some time. A friend of mine worked on it. He said it was the biggest waste of time he'd ever seen. XOXO!! YAY!!
Anybody have a shovel I could borrow? I need something to lean on.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:25am PT
Well look at the big brain on you Healy. Finally you figure out the necessity of laws to keep the human condition from devolving into the chaotic savagery from whence we so recently came. Or did we? That's debatable given our recent crop of leaders who seem to ignore laws, constitution, culture.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:31am PT
Oh, you must mean the neocon traitors of the W 'what constitution?' administration.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:33am PT
Yes them, those that immediately followed, and the most current crop. A true devolution at least 20 years in progress.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:36am PT
And you were up in arms over it all in 2003?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:36am PT

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:38am PT
recent crop of leaders who seem to ignore laws, constitution, culture.

Are there charges pending? Who's getting arrested? The GOP wingNuts control congress, where's the impeachment hearings? How can they allow this wanton lawlessness to continue?

Oh, you mean they violate YOUR interpretation of the constitution. I get it.

Ignore culture??? Don't go there, please. Not on a public forum.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:43am PT
Hell yes. I had two sons of cannon fodder age. I didn't raise them to feed the machine based on the lies of GWB'S regime.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 10:04am PT
Ah, so cannon fodder for righteous wars is ok? It's really an 'eye of the beholder' sort of deal from where I sit and fodder is fodder.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 31, 2015 - 10:12am PT
I love correlation charts.


Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 10:20am PT
love correlation charts.



It's right there in front of your eyes. The International Mechanical code was adopted in 2009.
Joron

Trad climber
Hoodland, Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 12:49pm PT
Again, I spent 37 years working on union construction projects. Laborer, apprentice carpenter, journeyman carpenter, foreman, superintendent, project manager, senior project manager - pretty much seen it all both as a worker and a manager.

Unions aren't perfect, but for a career in the construction trades, from what I've seen, its a pretty damn good way to go. The four year carpenter apprenticeship is a great program with excellent training facilities. Two hundred training centers across the country with $200 million invested in training annually. The curriculum is excellent - Journeyman upgrades, foreman training, superintendent training, specialized fields, green construction - its all there.


UNIONS are bad for business.. in my opinion it's Un American..

Sounds like you are clueless about business or construction. Well paid trained workers with a health plan and a real pension are bad for business? - anti-union sounds more un-american to me.

I worked for a medium size contractor that has been in business for 79 years and doing quite well. We delivered a high quality product, took on difficult projects and jobs with tough schedules, then came in on budget and on time. I'm familiar with many other union contractors that have been in business for many years and are very successful. CW Driver in LA has been around since 1919 and Lease Crutcher Lewis in Seattle has been in business for 137 years. These companies and the Carpenter's union aren't going away anytime soon. In the construction business skilled craftsmen are crucial for success.

my buddy Sam is a commercial under water construction worker and they aint got no UNION..

Yeah, and he probably ain't got no real pension, excellent health plan and opportunities for skill advancement training. Here's the link to our Commercial Diver Training Program. Looks pretty darn good to me!

https://www.carpenters.org/Home/WestDIVER.aspx

as for the Skyscraper builders just pay em what they are worth and use an HR dept. plenty of laws out there these days to ensure quality work place environment for the so called big bad union workers..

Spent more than a few years on high rise projects. If we paid them what they're worth if it would be more than union scale - not less! You obviously don't know the work. Dangerous, demanding, dirty, ugly weather, screaming foremen and exhausting... hmm sounds a bit like climbing! It was always "as#@&%es and elbows" on these projects for me and if you couldn't cut it you were down the road pronto!

I'm working on it got 38 more years before retire hope I can invent or produce money..

Good luck with that!
Carpenter's pension - "80 and out" / years of service + age = 80 - eligible for full pension.

Now back to the loser Trump!

AMERICA IS ALREADY GREAT!
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 31, 2015 - 03:42pm PT
Happiegrrrl2: I'm pretty sure that pyro is barking mad, but I was reassured to learn that his hammer swings both ways, not that there's anything wrong with that.

I am sincerely incapable of understanding what all this hatred towards organized labour is about - unions are run by their members, and if they're not, then someone should call the cops.

I have worked a wide variety of jobs in my lifetime - both union and non-union, and it's been my experience that there's little to differentiate between how hard the workers perform. This, I believe, is for a pretty obvious reason: if someone starts goofing off, then one of his (or her) co-workers has to pick up the slack, which is not going to please the person doing so. The boss is also probably going to notice, and, assuming the boss has taken the trouble to read the terms and conditions of employment that are part of the agreement negotiated between workers and management, then there's nothing the union can do to protect the member that isn't doing his or her job properly. Trust me on this - I was a boss in a workplace that was represented by a powerful union and I had the unpleasant task of firing a sub-par employee. I felt bad about it, but I did it by the book and that employee was gone.

Another two anecdotes, again both true:

-I was working in a union shop for an incompetent non-union boss, but we LOVED the guy. We covered his ass for years so that his bosses didn't fire his non-union ass.

-The hardest I ever worked was for a unionized logging operation (IWA) called Crown Zellerbach. As the new guy, I was kind of a floater, so I was assigned to a variety of jobs. At no time were we supervised, but those guys I worked with gave the proverbial 110% effort - even down to coffee and lunch breaks, which were timed to the minute.

Woody Guthrie said it best when he sang about people who hated unions (I'm paraphrasing here): he stated that some people are just plain mean. They can't stand the sight of people being treated fairly.

EDIT

BLUEBLOCKR: Many thanks & best wishes for the New Year
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Dec 31, 2015 - 03:59pm PT
Union bashing is more of the scripted brainwashing leaked via Fox News the patritotic cheer leading team for the 1%..
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 31, 2015 - 05:17pm PT
I'm not at all convinced.
I can swing a hammer because I rope Solo the washington column PROW and climbed Half domes the TISSASACK.. Love NAILING..

I found CRANKSTER's brother..
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/10/local/la-me-miramonte-20120210


dude was paid by LAUSD 40,000 dollars to whatever..


u guys are sick!


If we paid them what they're worth if it would be more than union scale - not less! You obviously don't know the work. Dangerous, demanding, dirty, ugly weather, screaming foremen and exhausting...

WTF are u talking about .. I go to work too!


Carpenter's pension - "80 and out" / years of service + age = 80 - eligible for full pension.


dude i'm probably banking way more money than you.. and guess what My boss is A Lesbian Dike! :)

here is another example..
Grandpa build Rockets.. way better than building a building.
My grandpa had way cooler job than you and it wasn't a UNION gig.
It was a BUILDING AMERICA job.


Unions aren't perfect
NO SH#T!

Happy new year freaks.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 31, 2015 - 05:28pm PT
^^^
Pyro, I could falsely claim that you shot at me, and have you arrested for attempted murder. The DA/police would then investigate. Now let's assume you didn't actually shoot at me, hell you weren't even in the same county at the time, but the DA started an investigation to determine the facts of the case.

Now if your employer fired you, simply because you were being "investigated" for a crime? Not convicted, not charged, not on trial. Yeah, well, that's where the Board of Ed f*#ked up. If they weren't ignorant dipshits, they would have put the guy on admin leave pending results. But they didn't. They were in the wrong, and their lawyers know good and damn well they are in the wrong. That's why they offered to settle.

I have no idea whether the guy was guilty, innocent or any facts of the charges or case itself. But it is completely clear that the BOE screwed the pooch by firing the guy without just cause AT THE TIME HE WAS FIRED.

I don't expect you to actually grok nuance, hell I actually thought you were an English as a second language person for years here, because you come across as marginally literate at best. Gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were ESL. Turns out you're just dumb as a stump.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 31, 2015 - 06:05pm PT
Elcapinyoazz: I'm perfectly serious here: I honestly believe pyro is insane. The only other explanation is that he has such low intelligence that, even among those who share his beliefs, he wins first prize for stupid.

I really am trying to be objective.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 31, 2015 - 06:29pm PT
Elcapinyoazz: I'm perfectly serious here: I honestly believe pyro is insane.
stweard
That right IGNORANCE IS BLISS..

edit:
Sorry Jim it's a point to show my Hammer time skills original A5 hammer #108 in that pic..

back to Donald

Criminal deportations in the U.S. are the lowest number in many years. We are letting criminals knowingly stay in our country. MUST CHANGE!

for steard

JORANN oops' JORON u have not been around the taco long e-nuff to comment.

Joron

Trad climber
Hoodland, Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 06:54pm PT
I'm with you Stewart!

But, my grandpappy was in WW1 and earned the purple heart in the Battle of Argonne. :)


Happy New Year
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 07:13pm PT
For which side?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 31, 2015 - 07:24pm PT
Joron: ...and his hammer swings both ways. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Gotta admit that I truly thought pyro was nuts until he showed us a picture of his A5 hammer #108.

Overwhelming proof that I was mistaken.

Happy New Year Joron.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 07:28pm PT
Pyro.

You know how good a man is with a hammer by how much tape is on his hands.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 07:30pm PT
I can swing a hammer because I rope Solo the washington column PROW

Ummm. It goes hammerless.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 31, 2015 - 07:33pm PT
Lorenzo: Priceless.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:46pm PT

You know how good a man is with a hammer by how much tape is on his hands.

Hahahaha...., Thanks for the chuckles fellers at the end of this two thousand and fifteenth year of notoriety <8^D

sometimes you gotta play the big fish inorder to get them to the shore.

Happy New Year Allll
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:51pm PT
Ummm. It goes hammerless.

Lorenzo
all wall climbers carry wall Hammers just in case of FIXED piece failures..

ROYAL Robbins who was from STONEY POINT would Approval..


PITON craft is a lost art but I know that skill..


PEACE happy new year SWELL is building I"M OUT..

XXOO
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:56pm PT
pyro: So those ten rolls of tape on your hands are the result of placing clean pro...?

By the way, Robbins was the original source of the quote about how to recognize a third rate aid climber.

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:18pm PT
I feel a good 2016 is coming...A Trump thread turns into a civil climbing discussion...classic
Happy New Year to all.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:21pm PT
all wall climbers carry wall Hammers just in case of FIXED piece failures..

When I did the prow in 1980 or 1981, we had a little Stubai in the bottom of the haul bag in case a belay needed some help. We didn't carry the courage on our waists, and we never bashed a pin. We mostly carried it because you were supposed to and it was our first real aid wall.

As time wore on, we found it to be more fun to test ourselves a little on the easier walls instead of bashing our way up. With modern gear, the trade routes have been bashed out and don't really need much fixed gear, and the number 1 thing that wrecks fixed gear is a boob with a hammer.

Bragging about your hammer prowess on a route that hundreds of others have done completely clean Just stuck me as comical.



I hope your hands heal up soon. Get those bandages changed.

Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:37pm PT
cosmiccragsman: couldn't agree more - I hope they're both gone too, since that would be two less Fascist azzholes to deal with in the new year.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:41pm PT

Go Trump, and Pyro!!!!

Agree! Go!

Stewart, Happy New Year to you and all our friends up North. (Jim, too).
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:47pm PT
Cosmo, I'm in a good mood so I'll wish you a good 2016, too. With Hillary headed to the White House you're going to have a tough enough time.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:51pm PT
crankster: And many Happy Returns to you.

EDIT:

And a Happy New Year to my other friends in the U.S. who continue to defend the freedoms the best and brightest of your ancestors fought for in the past.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jan 1, 2016 - 10:17am PT
Happy Birthday Medusa...
Norton

Social climber
Jan 1, 2016 - 11:02am PT

President John Kennedy was a scumbag and therefore a terrible President

on account of his affair with Marilyn Monroe


in fact 14 Presidents had, gasp, extramarital affairs while serving in office

read all about it here

http://bigfrog104.com/presidential-extramarital-affairs/
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 1, 2016 - 11:05am PT
Some have had good reason to cheat. In France they'd be thought less of if they didn't.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jan 1, 2016 - 11:11am PT
Cosmic...You mean the hand-rolled cigars...?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jan 1, 2016 - 11:22am PT
I hate it when you neo-cons pick on us libtards...where's my drum-circle buddies...?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 1, 2016 - 11:25am PT
And dress up as Monica, that will turn both of them on.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 1, 2016 - 11:38am PT
with ACA tranny benefit and some fattening up he'll do just fine. If not there's always Swarzenegger.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 1, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
Some sky writers flew over the Rose Bowl.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jan 1, 2016 - 05:49pm PT
Jeb couldn't have written that...The spelling is all correct...
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 1, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
Which would also disqualify pyro.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 1, 2016 - 06:23pm PT

Yeah, I know we have sone issues.
But my motto for 2016: Don't be afraid. Be aware.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 1, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-man-behind-the-rose-bowl-skywriting-bash-of-donald-trump/

He's alternately listed as a Ted Cruz and a Marco Rubio donor.

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 1, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
Lorenzo writes:

"Ted Cruz supporter."



Did you even read the link you posted?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-man-behind-the-rose-bowl-skywriting-bash-of-donald-trump/

Dude backs a bunch of people - from John McCain to John Edwards - but Cruz isn't one of them.

Besides, is the difference between Trump and Cruz really that distinct? That someone would cough up the cash to hire a skywriter to advertise?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 1, 2016 - 06:52pm PT
Yes, I've read several, and he listed as supporting both.

Which explains

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 1, 2016 - 07:19pm PT
He's apparently also a Hillary supporter.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/01/exclusive-anti-trump-air-campaign-donor-stan-pate-denies-connections-to-2016-republicans-this-is-all-me/
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 1, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
And a happy 2016 you too, Jim.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 1, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
Most of those at the Rose Bowl would agree with me:
CHRISTIAN MCCAFFREY FOR PRESIDENT!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 1, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
He had a better day than Trump, for sure.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 1, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
The sh#t that falls out of Trump's face be like, whoa, double face palm...
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 1, 2016 - 10:23pm PT
Stan had one more message

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 1, 2016 - 11:15pm PT
It's unfair to compare Trump to the Wicked Witch.

She deserves better than that.



The guy who hired the skywriters is in Alabama. And he's had enough of Trump's Nuremberg-style rallies and he's disgusted by Trump's acolytes and their extended-play version of George Orwell's Two Minute Hate.


Trump has inspired uneducated bigots to attack people, including an elderly Sikh gentleman in Fresno, whose religion is as far from Islam as Christianity is.





Trump's campaign rally song should be Atrocity Exhibition by Joy Division


Asylums, with doors open wide,
so that people can pay, to see inside.

For entertainment, they watch his body twitch.
He calls to the crowd, "I still exist."


This is the way, step inside.
This is the way, step inside.
This is the way, step inside.
This is the way, step inside.

pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jan 2, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
Trump will win in November.
There is little doubt.
He pisses off just the right people :)
dirtbag

climber
Jan 2, 2016 - 08:31pm PT
Well he pisses off most people. That's not a winning strategy.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jan 2, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
Actually, it is.
That's why he'll win.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 2, 2016 - 10:23pm PT
Well, He's got ISIS in his court.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jan 2, 2016 - 10:53pm PT
anyone butt rump?

to be honest I am trying to quit.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 3, 2016 - 07:05am PT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jan 4, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 5, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
Winemaker: You couldn't have nailed it better. What gives me a migraine is that it works so effectively.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 5, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
FAKT: the less educated you are the more likely you are to vote republican. You think there's a reason they fight against education - well there is. It's their strategy for staying in power.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 5, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
Trump is going to love this (from the San Diego Reader). If you want to download Hunter's letter go here http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2016/jan/05/stringers-threat-san-diego-southern-border/#

"Military age men" at San Diego's southern border
"Credible threat" posed by unknown Afghans and Pakistanis
By Marty Graham, Jan. 5, 2016

Among the several dozen Pakistani and Afghan men who have entered the U.S. illegally, coming into San Diego from Tijuana, two were found to have ties to terrorist groups, according to a letter sent by U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter to the Department of Homeland Security.

Muhammad Azeem and Muktar Ahmad, both in their 20s, surrendered to U.S. Border Patrol agents in September, according to Immigration and Customs Enforcement. One was listed on the Terrorist Screening Database for “associations with a known or suspected terrorist. The other was a positive match for derogatory information in an alternative database,” according to Hunter’s letter.

Azeem and Ahmad are among dozens of men — described by Border Patrol agents as “military age and carrying U.S. cash” who began entering the U.S. through a Tijuana-based human-smuggling pipeline in September.

Pakistanis and Afghans crossing the border illegally in the San Diego sector are pretty unusual, according to Border Patrol statistics. In 2013, U.S. Customs and Border Protection detained fewer than 400 Pakistanis throughout the entire United States — at the ports of entry, airports, and along the border between ports.

Between October 1, 2014, and Sept. 30, 2015, the San Diego sector of the Border Patrol detained 18 Pakistanis and 1 Afghan, according to Border Patrol statistics. Between October 1 and mid-November of last year, 2 Afghans and 22 Pakistanis reportedly surrendered to Border Patrol agents.

“We have detained more Pakistanis and Afghans in the first month of this fiscal year than we did all last year,” assistant chief Richard Smith confirmed in November.

In the month and a half since mid-November, 3 more Afghans and 6 more Pakistanis were detained by the Border Patrol (not including those detained at the ports of entry).

Customs officials did not return calls for their statistics on detentions at the ports of entry.

The decline in arrests had not lessened concerns, however. Federal agents say they believe that the Pakistanis have begun making an effort to avoid being caught.

Until November, they would enter in groups and seek a federal agent to surrender to, according to union officials. It is believed that they did this because illegal entrants who are not Mexican citizens and who are deemed to not pose a significant threat are generally given a date to appear at immigration court and then released on their own recognizance. (Central Americans coming to Texas and the Roma in San Diego both used the same method to enter the U.S. in the past two years.)

But that method has changed, National Border Patrol Council president Terence Shigg said. While the Border Patrol’s San Diego sector continues to apprehend Pakistanis and Afghans, they are now finding them travelling alone and often farther north of the border than the earlier surrenders.

“It’s very concerning,” Shigg said. “We have no idea what their actual intentions are because we have no effective way of backtracking. Just the males are coming and there’s no way for us to know for certain who they are and why.”

Both Azeem and Ahmad remain in ICE custody, spokeswoman Lauren Mack confirmed. ICE’s Homeland Security Investigations is part of the Joint Terrorism Task Force, she noted, and works closely with the Federal Bureau of Investigation on terrorism-related investigations.

Stratfor vice president of intelligence Fred Burton, interviewed last month, noted that identity documents from Afghanistan and Pakistan should set off alarms.

“The challenge of getting these individuals is getting who they actually are confirmed — proving identity is difficult in that environment,” Burton said. “Afghanistan and Pakistan do not have a robust identification system — these are places where there is tremendous potential for official document and visa fraud.”

Shigg said he believes that federal officials should be talking openly about this new development and committing more resources to keeping people from such countries in custody until they can be completely vetted.

“It’s not as if they don’t have the systems to sort, but they have to dedicate the resources and detention space to sorting this out,” he said. “These are credible threats.”
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jan 5, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
Picture this: Donald Trump and the president of North Korea with their respective fingers on the nuclear buttons.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jan 5, 2016 - 09:13pm PT
FC,
It is naive to think there has been a "finger on the button" leader in the United States since the 60's.
The only way a nuclear weapon would be launched from the U.S. today would be a counter strike.
Even then, it would be too little too late.
Bio-weapons are a much greater threat.

Trump's 1st year in office is going to be interesting to say the least.
Voters in the U.S. hold onto fallacy until it becomes reality.
Trump is the perfect candidate to fill this role.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jan 6, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
You're right about the nukes, Pud - "finger on the button" was a figure of speech. Perhaps I should have said to try to imagine Trump as the most powerful man in the world, reacting to the insanity and threats of today. Given his wild, irrational statements to date, the thought is chilling.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 6, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
the less educated you are the more likely you are to vote republican. You think there's a reason they fight against education - well there is. It's their strategy for staying in power.

thad KOOL AID must be goood!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 6, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
Trump's first year in office? I doubt seriously that we'll see that.

What's interesting is that a guy who has something LOUD to say about EVERYTHING is so screamingly silent on the Malheur Hoedown....
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 6, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
Pretty much the sole purpose of NK's nuke tests is to recalibrate the world's attention any time events elsewhere on the planet make dear leader feel ignored and inconsequential.

NK is kind of like the global version of the crew occupying the Oregon refuge.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 6, 2016 - 03:55pm PT
6KT yeild?? Thermonuclear??..NOT! That's barely half a mere Hiroshima bomb.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jan 6, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
I'm starting to see similarities between Trump supporters and professional wrestling fans.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 6, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
What's nutty is the core of the RNC will vote for Hillary or stay home before they vote for that clownstick.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 6, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Jan 6, 2016 - 09:12pm PT
Is Trump a Fascist? Serious question and serious answer.....

http://tinyurl.com/j9kjvpa

if that doesn't work try this long version

http://www.tikkun.org/nextgen/one-expert-says-yes-donald-trump-is-a-fascist-and-its-not-just-trump-2

(I posted this because I like reading intelligent discussion on the subject, but on many points and in overall tone I largely disagree with the author.)
monolith

climber
state of being
Jan 7, 2016 - 06:04am PT
Trump shows illegals crossing Moroccon boarder but wants you to think its our borders.


http://mashable.com/2016/01/04/trump-ad-morocco/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link#qLz5clCt0qqQ
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 7, 2016 - 06:22am PT

dirtbag

climber
Jan 7, 2016 - 10:55am PT
George Wallace's daughter believes Trump and her dad have a lot in common, except that Trump's bigotry is more overt. A top campaign adviser for Wallace's presidential campaign agrees.


“There are a great deal of similarities as it relates to their style and political strategies,” said Wallace’s daughter, Peggy Wallace Kennedy. “The two of them, they have adopted the notion that fear and hate are the two greatest motivators of voters. Those voters that feel alienated from the government. Those voters tend to make decisions based on an emotional level rather than intellectual.”

“They both understood, my father and Donald Trump, that low-information voters, they tend to feed off of the threats to their livelihood and safety without really considering what that threat really is, or even if it’s real,” she continued. “So daddy and Trump have this magnificent personality, a brave put-ons that the average American wants in a leader.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/george-wallaces-family-former-staff-donald-trump-is-doing-wh?utm_term=.gcQWONyXX#.jfNwJL7mm
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 7, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
I'm beginning to think there is much more tactical genius in Trump's approach to this campaign than his abrasive and often disorganized pronouncements would indicate. Look at how Cruz' birther "problem" is gaining credibility. Look at the thrashing Bill and Hill are taking over women's issues.

dirtbag

climber
Jan 7, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
Rick, I think you're 100% spot on. At first I thought his campaign was random and rambling off the cuff Trumpisms, but that's not the case at all.
Norton

Social climber
Jan 7, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
As a registered Republican I will vote for Trump in the Presidential Primary in my state

I very much want him to be the one to face the Democrat in the general election.

Please join me and vote for Donald in your state primary.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 7, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
With my almost perfect record of voting for the loser, I would better serve my candidate of choice by voting for somebody else. Even if I wanted Trump.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jan 7, 2016 - 07:32pm PT
I will vote for Donald because he will make America strong again...I'm willing to work for lower wages if it will help big business create more jobs..Drool , drool , Billary , Hildebeast , drool...
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 8, 2016 - 06:51am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]


Donald taking care of Crazy people!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 8, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
"Confiscate their coats!"
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 8, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
We could only get a small fraction of this 25k crowd in. The movement to Make America Great Again is unbelievable!

Donald right down the street from Bernie..

are they protesting or not?


Edit:

FREE SHOW!
Norton

Social climber
Jan 8, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
are they protesting or not?

well if they are they will get thrown out

cause that's how to make America great again!

Donald has my vote, please join me
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 8, 2016 - 03:32pm PT
When I did the prow in 1980 or 1981, we had a little Stubai in the bottom of the haul bag in case a belay needed some help. We didn't carry the courage on our waists, and we never bashed a pin. We mostly carried it because you were supposed to and it was our first real aid wall

Lorenzo U climbed it with a partner in 80 i ROPE_SOLO it in 1999.. almost 20years before I.. gear gets old parties thrash the sh#t outta FIXED gear and when u ROPE SOLO it's a waste of time going back down to the BAG.. so Lorenzo SHUT UP!

NEXT,

Which would also disqualify pyro
Stewart Double SHUT UP second request.

stewart quote
pyro: So those ten rolls of tape on your hands are the result of placing clean pro...?

By the way, Robbins was the original source of the quote about how to recognize a third rate aid climber

3rd rate Tis sa sack route yeah right more like EXPANDOME.. u cant rate JUNK that's about to fall of the wall..

DUDE ur such a stupid FREE climber.. go back to ur cave.
CAVE (CITIZEN VIRTUALLY AGAINST EVERYTHING) Stewart

NEXT,



JORON wrote:

But, my grandpappy was in WW1 and earned the purple heart in the Battle of Argonne. :)


Happy New Year

WTF does that have to do with UNION?

show a picture of proof cuzz right now i dont believe it or YOu joron..
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 8, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
Hey pyro: Shut up? Is that the best you got?

Did you miss my earlier post when I awarded you first prize for stupid on this thread? Maybe I'm being unfair to you, though, although I suspect there's an APB (that's All Points Bulletin) issued for you from whatever psychiatric institution you escaped from. If I were you, I'd try lying low for a while.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 8, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
Hand out 20k tickets for a 2.4k venue and then claim people are lining up. Go Donald!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 8, 2016 - 04:24pm PT
Hey pyro: Shut up? Is that the best you got?

Did you miss my earlier post when I awarded you first prize for stupid on this thread? Maybe I'm being unfair to you, though, although I suspect there's an APB (that's All Points Bulletin) issued for you from whatever psychiatric institution you escaped from. If I were you, I'd try lying low for a while.

Show us ur climbs?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 8, 2016 - 04:35pm PT
pyro:Too much trouble. Besides, I'm merely a third rate climber - just like you.

The difference between us is that I have exactly enough intelligence (and sanity) to avoid trying to start a pissing contest with some of the best climbers on the planet.

As we've all noted before, you don't.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 8, 2016 - 06:04pm PT
Stewart

pyro:Too much trouble. Besides, I'm merely a third rate climber - just like you

lol! u aint got SH#T soo SHUT UP!


a pissing contest with some of the best climbers on the planet.

Stewart putting climbers on a pedestal ur a JOKE! climbers are HUMAN they breath AIR just like me and maybe U.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 8, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
pyro........?

So let's see if I've got this right... You put yourself up on a pedestal that a dead rat can jump over, but your insignificant accomplishments can't be snickered at by the legions of climbers whose achievements far exceed yours?

Speaking of insanity and rats, I suppose that you're too busy perfecting your spelling skills to recall that this is supposed to be a thread about Trump.

At least try to apply your dazzling analytical skills to this topic. Nobody cares about your mediocre climbing achievements - at the very least, not here.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 8, 2016 - 06:32pm PT
but your insignificant accomplishments can't be snickered at by the legions of climbers whose achievements far exceed yours?


I never said I was bad ass! I just went out to Yosemite to CLIMB a big wall and it worked..



BETTER THAN YOU STEWART!
dirtbag

climber
Jan 9, 2016 - 08:02am PT
Pyro and bluering, do you think this is ok?

As Donald Trump questioned the motives of Syrian refugees at a Friday night rally, saying they "probably are ISIS,"a woman sitting in the stands of the sports arena behind him silently stood. She was wearing a white hijab and a blue T-shirt reading, "Salam, I come in peace."

kept speaking, but soon the crowd erupted, holding up their campaign signs and chanting: "Trump! Trump! Trump!" That was the formal signal for security to remove her from the rally -- even though she stood quietly, not saying anything. She was joined by several other protesters, all wearing yellow eight-pointed stars, reminiscent of the six-pointed stars Jews were forced by the Nazis to wear on their clothing during the Holocaust. On the eight-pointed stars, a common symbol in the Islamic world, was this message: "Stop Islamophobia."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/08/muslim-woman-escorted-out-of-trump-rally-in-south-carolina/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumprally1032pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory


Would you still support trump if he doesn't do anything to address this?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 9, 2016 - 09:12am PT
I'm all for stopping Islamophobia at the root cause-immigration. Furthermore, a thorough accounting should be done and those not well integrated into our society ,as well as productive members, should go. I'm sorry, we have systematically toppled the dictators keeping their savagery largely in check, but that was then and this is now. Isolate them, eliminate trade with them (while producing all of our own FF's), and let them solve their own problems before being accepted again internationally.

Besides that, they should be protesting at Hildabeast rallies. She is the one that systematically helped destroy their security while gun running weapons from Libya to what became ISIS in Syria-not Trump.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 9, 2016 - 09:23am PT
I wrote something here, but removed it. Not worth the time.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 9, 2016 - 09:27am PT
What about tourist visas?
shouldn't we stop them from visiting as well?
That's how the 911 terrorists got in.

What about dignitaries from Islamic states?
Keep them out as well?

What about the Right wing American extremists, should we watch them as well?
They have done a lot more killing in the last 14 years, right?
Maybe we should round em up and collar them with mind reading monitors to make sure they don't want to kill.

I think rick sumner needs one, he seems to hate the Gov. just as much as these jihadists. I guess rick didn't think this through very far, this phobia of keeping right wing extremists in check, since he's on the list as well.

Right wing extremism is always bad

This is a joke, right rick?
She is the one that systematically helped destroy their security while gun running weapons from Libya to what became ISIS in Syria-not Trump.
you couldn't be stupid enough to believe this.
you just prove once again that the liars can say anything and you will believe it out of pure hate for the other side.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 9, 2016 - 09:28am PT
Why stop there Brandon- let's kick out your sorry ass and all the other like minded Murica haters. If it's so bad, by all means leave.

No visas to our people to there and none from them here Craig. We've been periodically battling these people for centuries, my god many of their nations were either sympathetic to ,or allied with Hitler in World War 11. It's a basic and total clash of cultures with the blame being shared. But why keep hammering a sore thumb?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 9, 2016 - 09:28am PT
Isolate them, eliminate trade with them (while producing all of our own FF's), and let them solve their own problems before being accepted again internationally.

Unfortunately, the rich power block in this country is in bed with the Saudi family, so much so that when 9-11 hit and was clearly almost exclusively Saudi in origin, the Saudi family was able to get its family out on the only plane allowed to fly that week.


We were so mad at the Saudis we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 9, 2016 - 09:36am PT
The Bushes should have their citizenship stripped and sent on a slow boat to Yemen along with Obama, the Clinton's, and even cancer riddled Carter, to reap what they have sown.

And by all means make room on the fun boat for the Craigster and freinds.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 9, 2016 - 09:38am PT
We should shut down billions of dollars of trade, vacations, jobs, families being able to visit each other all because poor little ricky is sacred of some terrorists 1000s of miles away

I don't blame you, you there in bum f*#k nowhere, that's the first place those crazy jihadists want to go,

You are NOT SAFE
Cover yourself with a Blue Tarp!!!

wahhhhhhhhh

do you see how silly you sound, along with Trump


I ain't going nowhere, I'm not scared, and I love this Country and it's Government, which is this Country.
If you hate our Gov, you are an America Hater, that's the way it works.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 9, 2016 - 09:39am PT
Oh, the Donald is no exception

http://mic.com/articles/130070/here-are-some-of-donald-trump-s-middle-east-business-ventures#.vS59W4cXr
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 9, 2016 - 09:42am PT
Yeah, we should shut it down. Why support terrorists half way around the world when we can be cooperative with western hemisphere nations to trade for all needed resources and products. Make any sense to you Craig.

Nah Craig, they're not going to freeze their azzes off in my sparsely populated region when they can comfortably terrorize your over sensitive azzes in sunny SoCal.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 9, 2016 - 09:44am PT
No, that makes zero sense,
since we are not at risk

even with more terrorist attacks, the risk is less than getting hit by lightening

why be paranoid of something that will never happen to you?
Isn't silly to be manipulated by the media to fear something that will never harm you?
Are you really a climber?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 9, 2016 - 09:52am PT

Jan 9, 2016 - 09:44am PT
No, that makes zero sense,
since we are not at risk

even with more terrorist attacks, the risk is less than getting hit by lightening

why be paranoid of something that will never happen to you?
Isn't silly to be manipulated by the media to fear something that will never harm you?
Are you really a climber?

So we shouldn't be against extremists because they can never hurt us? Good to know. I guess we can cut our military in half, then.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 9, 2016 - 09:58am PT
We spend billions on Anti-terrorism already

why spend more to satisfy a bunch of paranoid loons?
Why destroy our reputation as a Secular Country because of Xenophobia and Christian extremism

Trump and his crew want to spend more, oppress more, do more illegal surveillances on, more wiretapping, more searching, deporting, jailing

It's a race to a right wing hell hole as a country

I didn't say no one would get hurt, just a 1 in 50 million chance of it being you
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 9, 2016 - 10:16am PT
For decades the pendulum has been swinging further left. The impetus is a changing with the awakening of the still sane masses.

Do you hear that rumbling in the distance Craig? That is an approaching tank. I'm afraid the ideals of you and your like minded loons are soon to be ground into the dust. Bend over Craig and kiss your azz goodbye.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 9, 2016 - 11:08am PT

Pyro and bluering, do you think this is ok?


This woman was disrupting an event
people were kicked out of Hillary's just a few days ago for quietly holding a sign...Get over it...people did not come to see a poor poor Muslim lady's backside as she acts like a fool..

doesn't the Koran forbid politics?
dirtbag

climber
Jan 9, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
Standing quietly is not being disruptive.

She doesn't have a sign, either.


Try again.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 9, 2016 - 02:56pm PT
Do you hear that rumbling in the distance Craig? That is an approaching tank. I'm afraid the ideals of you and your like minded loons are soon to be ground into the dust. Bend over Craig and kiss your azz goodbye.

The problem is, the tank is driven by anti-Americans, like you. Those who want to tear down America, and Americans.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 9, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
rick sumner: What? decades? When Reagan symbolically removed the solar panels from the roof of the White house, fired all the air traffic controllers as part of his war of terror upon organized labour, and then, along with Bush Sr., financed the proxy murder of uncounted thousands of peasants in Central America while selling arms to Iran?

Or when Bush Sr. in the aftermath of Desert Storm after destroying an army of Iraqi conscripts left Sadaam's best trained and most loyal troops - the Republican Guard - untouched, and, in the aftermath of the war, suckered the Kurds and other Iraqi resistance groups into rebelling against Sadaam with the clear promise of U.S. support?

In case you forgot, those poor fools who trusted the integrity of Bush Sr. were subsequently massacred by Hussein.

How about after 9/11, when dubya Bush and his cabinet of war criminals tore up the U.S. Constitution and replaced it with the "Patriot Act" and then invaded Iraq without a crumb of justification, killing over 100,000 innocent civilians in the process while completely destroying the entire infrastructure of that nation?

Or the thousands of dead and wounded U.S. military personnel who were killed, wounded, and had their sacrifice completely abandoned by the Republican administration that orchestrated this outrage AND, incidentally, was directly responsible for the rise of Daesh (ISIS).

Are these the decades of leftist politics you're referring to?
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 10, 2016 - 06:25am PT
It was Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bremer, et al, that gave us ISIS, and it may well be ISIS that gives us the xenophobia required to elect Donald Trump, and therein may be the ingredients of a third world war.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Jan 10, 2016 - 06:37am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 10, 2016 - 08:25am PT
The Donald will fix all the injustices for you Stewart.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 10, 2016 - 08:49am PT

Jan 9, 2016 - 09:36am PT
The Bushes should have their citizenship stripped and sent on a slow boat to Yemen along with Obama, the Clinton's, and even cancer riddled Carter, to reap what they have sown.

And by all means make room on the fun boat for the Craigster and freinds.

Umm, President Carter is cancer free.
Btw, I learned to spell in second grade
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jan 10, 2016 - 08:55am PT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 10, 2016 - 10:27am PT
Trump, who in 2012 offered $5 million for the release of President Obama’s college transcript and other documents, said he would not give The Post permission to review his records from the military academy.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 10, 2016 - 10:50am PT
In case you forgot, those poor fools who trusted the integrity of Bush Sr. were subsequently massacred by Hussein.

stupid steward You forgot about the Arab SPRING uprising.. Give HILLARY credit for that WIN..benghazii
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 10, 2016 - 11:54am PT
What 10b, you don't like the Bush's described as shrubbery-Bushes. At least I gave them the respect of capitalization.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 10, 2016 - 01:47pm PT
pyro: Even if I credited you with sufficient intelligence to win a political debate with an oyster(which I don't), are you trying to tell me that the documented facts I posted magically don't matter because they were committed by Republicans?

Please go visit your doctor to ask if they've discovered a cure for stupid yet. You've got a really bad case of it and need immediate treatment.

And Rick Sumner- I assume that you're joking.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 10, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
stewart takes one to know one!

stewart where is ur climbing pictures?


ur non climber there of!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 10, 2016 - 02:14pm PT
No Rick, you misspelled friend.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 10, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
I am pleased to announce that I had the Union Leader removed from the upcoming debate. If their highly unethical behavior, including continually begging me for ads, isn’t questionable enough, they have endorsed a candidate who can’t win. This is really unfair and a conflict for all the other candidates. I said it should not be allowed and ABC agreed. To top it off, the paper has lost all credibility under publisher Joe McQuaid, with it’s circulation dropping to record lows. They are not worthy of representing the great people New Hampshire. - Donald J. Trump



http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/01/abc-severs-debate-partnership-with-union-leader-217560
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 10, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
Oh well Brandon. I always had a problem with that I before e except after...rule.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 10, 2016 - 03:21pm PT
Pyro: I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you about climbing achievements. Since you don't seem to get the concept, this is considered to be childish behaviour - you're supposed to be an adult. In your case, though, you're probably trying to compensate for having a tiny penis.

Have you noticed that this thread is about that strutting pustule named Trump? After you get treated for your apparently terminal case of stupid, could you possibly address the topic? I don't think anyone here give a rat's ass about your pathetic climbing accomplishments.

By the way, were you home schooled? It might explain your lamentable spelling skills.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 10, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
Stewart this forum is a cluster of climbers if u don't have anything to do with climbing then LEAVE..I'll send u ur coat..


By the way ur a troll
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 10, 2016 - 04:16pm PT
'Trolls call me
moon of dwelling-Rungnir,
giant's wealth-sucker,
storm-sun's bale,
seeress's friendly companion,
guardian of corpse-fiord,
swallower of heaven-wheel;
what is a troll other than that?'
Prose Edda


Sounds kinda cool, actually.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 10, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
pyro: I'm pretty sure I qualify for membership in a climbers forum. You can send me the free jacket though, assuming it's size medium, brand new and of high quality.

Now would you try to spell a complete sentence correctly for the first time in your life? Failing that, instead please attempt to express a coherent thought. We'll all be rooting for you.

Now read this sentence carefully and it's OK to get help if the instructions are too difficult for you to understand: climbers are at least trying to discuss the topic of this thread, which is about that strutting pustule named Trump. I thought I had already explained this to you.

Now, either bugger off and start your very own thread where you can spew to your hearts content about your dazzling climbing achievements and leave the adults in peace while they discuss their thoughts about Trump or, as they used to say, go climb a rock.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jan 10, 2016 - 04:35pm PT
Stewart....

I just looked at your profile, 500+ post, all on Political threads, you work for Hillery? You don't seem to have climbed anything in your life, no pictures, no TR's... you got a name in a guidebook you can show us? Maybe something?

Maybe a snow slog in the north woods? Uphill, even.

All I can smell is a bunch of fart gas rolling out of your ancient hole.

You are getting tired and boring, why don't you go find a different place to spread your spew.

wanker!

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 10, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
On the other hand, I look up guyman and see more first ascents than Fred Beckey...
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 10, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
Guyman Stewart writes just like an old f*#ked up flamer of mine..
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jan 10, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
On the other hand, I look up guyman and see more first ascents than Fred Beckey...

Thank you for the comparison.


and why we are at this Lorenzo, when was the last time you pulled down?

The stuff you post is all on the political threads and all photos are cut and paste from the net, oh yes there are some pitions and a old ass Ice Ax.... so I guess you qualify.

hahahahahahah

Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 10, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
I'm flattered to get all this fan mail, especially from you, Farouk. Every one of those exclamation marks of yours wounds me like a knife in my heart. Brilliant commentary.

Unlike nearly all of my critics, I do my very best to post verifiable facts. Admittedly, I find that attempting to discuss history with inbred Tea Baggers can annoy me big time. Are you all home schooled?

Furthermore, I do post on climbing threads & have done so fairly recently. In earlier times I posted on climbing threads fairly regularly.

Unfortunately for mouth breathers I prefer to spend my time on political threads these days, since I figure that the survival of the nation envisaged by the the Founding Fathers and so eloquently spoken of by Lincoln in his Gettysburg Address, and Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech is endangered by an alliance of mean-spirited, ill-informed greeedhead racists.

I'd prefer to see a kinder, gentler United States emerge in the future than spend my time pounding out accounts of my climbing exploits for the moment, so if this explanation isn't satisfactory for you, please feel free

to

go piss up a rope.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jan 10, 2016 - 06:04pm PT
I climb, I'm not much good, I enjoy myself, I get cold, I tramp through snow, I get old.

This is a political thread and, in my opinion, the taco has some of the best comments and information re politics I have seen, written by some very intelligent people.

Do I have to have climbed Denali to be allowed to post? I'm an American (although, in the shadow of Cruz, I was born abroad of an American parent - I could be president) and appreciate the opportunity to express opinions on the politics and direction of our country. Do I have to be a Donini to post? Hope not, as I'm not.

So, guyman, stop expressing the requirement of angelic climbing to comment. That's bullsh#t.

Edited for spelling.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 10, 2016 - 06:08pm PT
Ste WA rt ur 100% TROLLCUNT


Winemaker stop defending ur trollcunt
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 10, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
pyro: Always a delight to study your carefully reasoned analysis of the Trump campaign.

Winemaker: There's a beautiful poem written by Geoffrey Winthrop Young after the loss of both of his legs during WW I. One of the line goes: "I hold the heights, I hold the heights I won." I can look up the title for you if you're interested.

EDIT

But not on this thread - this isn't the place to indulge in pyro's pathetic pissing contest.
Norton

Social climber
Jan 10, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
Pyro said:

Ste WA rt ur 100% TROLLCUNT

you may want to keep in mind the Forum Rules as account deactivation comes without any warning, it is worth it"

While we constantly wrestle with our comfort of having a climbing forum be occasionally overrun with heated political debate, we are very clear that we never want the forum to become a platform for personal attacks. Please help us to keep personal attacks off the forum by emailing me.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jan 10, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
Yeah Pyro...Don't get banned...Your photos have redeeming value and if you get banned Cosmic will be the only one left in the drumming circle...rj
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 10, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
TROLLCUNT I invented the word.
My second INVENTED word. How's that for passing English class!

I ALSO invented the word PIPEFITTER..

2 invented words on SUPERTOPO Trollcunt and pipefitter..


I could get banned but why ban the PYRO. Who is regulating TROLLS so that we can enjoy the rock climber inside of us.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 10, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
Yeah - I really appreciated it when cosmicragsman shared his self-portrait with us a few posts back.

Winemaker: the poem is titled "The Old Hill Climber."

Now back to the profound and meticulously researched insights of the Trump supporters...

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 10, 2016 - 07:00pm PT
Show us ur climbing sh#t Stewart..


Edit:

Stewart it's real easy here is a picture that DAVE KATZ took when we climbed the PROW in 2012.. I let him lead the GOOD pitches.


So it's that easy. We come to climbers Forum to share climbs along with ETC.. ur a TROLLCUNTING..
Stewart constant attacks aren't for the BETTERMENT of this community
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 10, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
pyro: how many times do I have to remind you that this is a thread about Trump?

I WILL not get into a low rent pissing contest with you about climbing here... or anywhere else for that matter, because I don't respect you.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 10, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
I knew and climbed with Hatten long ago. The Daryl I knew would have thrashed the completely unhumorous shet talker Stewart in short order.

Norton

Social climber
Jan 10, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
You don't know Stewart like I do

Stewart was on K2 with me in 84 and saved my life up there

You pussies could not carry his crampons

now enough of climbing credentials and get back to Donald
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 10, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
Stewart, what exactly did you expect to get from Trump supporters? Reason? Logic? Intelligence? I'd say it's coming in pretty much on course.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 10, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
Mighty Hiker, you may be right about Daryl's fundamental non violent core. But I think you would also agree if Stewart would have regularly directed a stream of vile spew towards Daryl in response to a difference in opinion, like he exhibits here, he would have been missing a few teeth and flat on his azz.

The boy needs to develop a sense of humor.
John M

climber
Jan 10, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
Stewart it's real easy here is a picture that DAVE KATZ took when we climbed the PROW in 2012.. I let him lead the GOOD pitches.


So it's that easy.

not if your climbing was done before digital cameras. My pics aren't digitized. Not that I have anything significant to be worth going to the trouble of scanning.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 10, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
Thanks Mighty Hiker, Norton and... crankster, you're absolutely right. Never indulge in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

As for you, Rick Sumner - Daryl & I periodically got into some GIGANTiC arguments, and not once did he ever threaten me with violence. He lived at my place for a while and I was also a friend of his family. That's why I took the trouble to say goodbye to him in Squamish. He had a good heart.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 10, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
That just proves you've become much more humorless, tactless, and malignantly angry in your old age Stew.

Like it or not boys, the populace is sick and tired with politics as usual, have suffered through 2 of the worst presidents in history, and are inclined in both parties to elect an outsider. That doesn't mean a Bush or a Clinton. I can't attest to Trump's chances of getting the nomination, but I can tell you if he got to the general he would have significant appeal in the Dem party also.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 10, 2016 - 09:20pm PT
JOHN M u missed the point.


G_gnome is one of the MOST fossil climbers that I climb with and HE found a way to post up!

Ur boyfriend STEWART just want to DISRUPTIVE. .
John M

climber
Jan 10, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
If your point is to try and get him to create some climbing content, then you have a lousy way of doing it.

Otherwise.. what is your point?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 10, 2016 - 09:35pm PT
So John Of supertopo M

u would rather have random strangers just aimlessly posting but not having a damn thing in common
That's
Pure shitville..

I like knowing G_gnome learned how to post recent pics of his activities

John M ur boy Stewart is attacking ME.


I came here to speak with climbers and climbers ONLY.

Not interested in some TROLLCUNTING SPAMBOT
John M

climber
Jan 10, 2016 - 09:46pm PT
Sorry Pyro.. but you don't have a very good history. I believe that you are trying to do better, and so will give you the benefit of the doubt. But you came at me the same way you did Stewart, just because I disagreed with you. You didn't ask me if I was a climber. You accused me of not being a climber. Do you understand the difference?

And by the way… I have shared my history on this forum many times and I know a number of people here and I don't owe you an explanation for who I am.

In the future, if you want to know something. Then ask respectfully, or shove off.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 10, 2016 - 10:04pm PT
Rick sumner: My sense of humour is still intact.

This is not a funny thread, and the entire planet is watching Trump's popularity with horror.

I guess it's too bad if you don't like what I say about this rat, but I make an honest effort to post factual information to support my opinions, and am willing to either clarify or retract them if proven wrong. Also, if you want to make things personal, again it's too bad if you don't enjoy getting an unfriendly response from me.

I find it disgusting that there seems to be a total lack of verifiable information coming from your side to make Trump's candidacy look like a good thing either within your nation or on the world stage.

I've said it before that U.S. politics isn't a game, and when psychotic lunatics get their hands on the Oval Office, innocent people end up dead outside of the U.S., which entitles me to express my opinions.

As for your comments about the quality of past Presidents, I sort of agree, but while I'm no fan of Obama, at least he finally got a primitive form of Medicare into effect- a more generous version of which already exists in every advanced democracy on the planet.

Clinton was no bargain in my eyes either, but at least he left a balanced budget when he left office.

On the other hand, the administrations of Reagan, Bush Sr., and dubya Bush left nothing domestically other than gigantic handouts to the wealthy at the expense of the wages of the other 99% of the U.S. public, while internationally leaving oceans of innocent blood and destroyed infrastructure. Oh, yeah - and thousands of dead and mangled, abandoned U.S. servicemen as their presidential legacy.

If you want to listen to me tell jokes, give me something amusing to inspire me.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 10, 2016 - 10:10pm PT
Zzzz

John of supertopo M I picked on ur UNIONS..

I'm NOT SORRY for thad!
John M

climber
Jan 10, 2016 - 10:27pm PT
when you had no decent argument for what I was saying, you tried to discredit me by saying I wasn't a climber.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 10, 2016 - 10:41pm PT
Ah! I am so sorry to interrupt a ST pissing match between our resident spew/tard Pyro,------ & Stewart.

However! The Donald has now denounced Pro-football players as a bunch of pussies.

Donald Trump thinks the NFL is soft, just like America.

That should gain him another million or two redneck votes from folks who really miss those helmet to helmet collisions.

Pyro will likely vote for him 3 or 4 times now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/01/10/donald-trump-nfl-football-has-become-soft-like-our-country-has-become-soft/

so I’m watching a game yesterday. What used to be considered a great tackle, a violent head-on [tackle], a violent — if that was done by Dick Butkus, they’d say he’s the greatest player. If that were done by Lawrence Taylor — it was done by Lawrence Taylor and Dick Butkus and Ray Nitschke, right? Ray Nitschke — you used to see these tackles and it was incredible to watch, right?

“Now they tackle. ‘Oh, head-on-head collision, 15 yards.’ The whole game is all screwed up. You say, ‘Wow, what a tackle.’ Bing. Flag. Football has become soft. Football has become soft. Now, I’ll be criticized for that. They’ll say, ‘Oh, isn’t that terrible.’ But football has become soft like our country has become soft. [Applause] It’s true. It’s true. The outcome of games has been changed by what used to be phenomenal, phenomenal stuff. Now these are rough guys, these are rough guys. These guys — what they’re doing is incredible, but I looked at it and I watched yesterday in particular. So many flags, right? So many flags. And I could imagine a guy like Lawrence Taylor and Dick Butkus, who was really rough, and some of these guys sitting there watching. ‘Wow, what a beautiful tackle.’ ‘Fifteen yards! That’s — the game is over.’ You can’t kick a field goal any more.”
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 10, 2016 - 10:44pm PT
That's better Stew. Now if you could be a little Less serious and present your case with panache and humor your positions might be tolerable.

Go Trump go. Rah Rah.
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Jan 10, 2016 - 11:38pm PT
Not interested in some TROLLCUNTING SPAMBOT

Oooo! Pyro pulls the *C*word - classy, Ice-man.

It was much more relevant and grammatically correct when Pyro's girl-friend posted for him.

But several of us are really enjoying his long-awaited, non-supported spin-out.

Bravo, Pyro - it's been a long time coming - and you absolutely fulfilled our expectations of juvenile mediocrity in your rebuttals!

PS. we really like Stewart.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 11, 2016 - 01:25am PT
rick sumner: speaking of jokes, Norton told one about me... I thought it was pretty funny, since it was kindly intended - sort of a metaphor... Too bad you didn't get it.

I will repeat for the last time: A raving pustule like Trump is not funny, and I'm not posting here to seek your your approval. I can't think of a single thing I can say about that rat that won't be dripping with contempt, and he earns even more of it every time he opens his mouth.

Mister E: Thanks for the support.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 11, 2016 - 06:21am PT
The forum Trumpkins are wrong about virtually everything. A near perfect score. How does one get to be an America-hater, so misinformed? It would be too simple to say it's Fox. It has to be something deeper. Every post is how bad the country is. Trump....America is not great, America never wins....blah, blah, endlessly blah... What a horrible, miserable way to live.

Wake up, doom & gloomers. We're recovering from the disastrous Bush presidency. Sure, we've got lunatics in control of congress who despise government, but their death grip is about to get a big shakeup - after the disaster of a Trump nomination is realized.

Humor? Panache? That's not a word that comes to mind to describe the manner in which you express your ultra-conservative opinions.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 11, 2016 - 06:26am PT
Bring on duh chump.

Expose these losers.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 11, 2016 - 07:30am PT
Cosmic posted:



What's wrong with oggling Caitlyn Jenner?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 11, 2016 - 07:57am PT
Oooo! Pyro pulls the *C*word - classy, Ice-man.
Mister E U used the CHIP word at my local Echo cliffs crag..
I'M better than YOU!

Posted this video for you guys..
[Click to View YouTube Video]
if the C word is allowed on YOUTUBE then it must be okay..
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jan 11, 2016 - 08:05am PT
Pyro
Seeing how close you can get your finger to the flame before ya get burned?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 11, 2016 - 08:09am PT
Congratulations to my friend Sylvester Stallone on winning a Golden Globe. A wonderful guy- who has created something special- well deserved!
I also appreciate the kind words, Sly! I will make you proud.
Donald Trump!


http://variety.com/2016/film/news/sylvester-stallone-donald-trump-1201675595/
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 11, 2016 - 08:19am PT
pyro posted
f the C word is allowed on YOUTUBE then it must be okay..


You know you're a stand up guy when the worst things posted on YouTube is your bar for decency.


Pyro posted
Donald Trump!

From the article:

What does he think of the Republican frontrunner? “I love Donald Trump,” he said. “He’s a great Dickensian character. You know what I mean? There are certain people like Arnold, Babe Ruth, that are bigger than life. But I don’t know how that translates”—he let out a laugh—“to running the world.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jan 11, 2016 - 09:37am PT
So Norton.... if you say Stewart was on K2 then he is alright by me to stand at this campfire. Not that I have anything to say about who stands here.

Any climber can say anything about me that they wish to say.... I don't give a rats behind.


But it gets tiring and irritating to have people who post ZERO climbing content come on the TACO and make repeated personal attacks on people who do contribute. And these repeated personal attacks are just because some don't agree politically. Stewart started off doing this, in his oh so cute backhanded way. Lame, IMHO

Much like LEB, who was tossed for simply having opinions, she wasn't a climber so out she went.

It would be great to see some of Stewart on K2.



crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 11, 2016 - 11:02am PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 11, 2016 - 11:14am PT
You know you're a stand up guy when the worst things posted on YouTube is your bar for decency.

Hidesert Google owns YOUTUBE whats ur point..
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Jan 11, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
Every time I see the 'Ready for Donald?' in the Supertopo forum thread list it sticks in my craw like the ten day old rotted green intestinal slime of the bad oyster I retched out onto the 104 degree pavement by the corroded flea mart oyster stand I purchased it at.

I cannot nor will I ever be, Ready for Donald, that maniacal fat assed hypocritical heartless self serving rich slobbering piece of sh#t for brains racist opportunistic blow hard thug moron! And that's not saying half of how I really feel...

The wife and I have got our bags packed and the house up for sale... wake me up when this is all over, I'm going in the deep-freeze a for year and will find out at this time next year whether or not we will still be living in the United States or moving to Canada.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 11, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
Every time I see the 'Ready for Donald?' in the Supertopo forum thread list it sticks in my craw like the ten day old rotted green intestinal slime of the bad oyster I retched out onto the 104 degree pavement by the corroded flea mart oyster stand I purchased it at.

So.... You are ready?

Don't leave until after you vote.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 11, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
Stewart was on K2 with me in 84 and saved my life up there

Norton, what's the story?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 11, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
guyman & gary: The K2 thing was a well-intended joke & I wasn't the guy who made it - didn't you notice my post to rick? The rest of the climbing stuff is true - Daryl & I were friends from his earliest climbing days & also partners for years.

Having stated that, it's not my fault that you're too dumb to locate the climbing content that I've posted in the past. My most recent post was some thread about hitting pitons during a fall. Prior to that, it's been quite a while since, AS IVE ALREADY STATED, I generally choose to comment about politics.

This is a thread about Trump

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jan 11, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
The rest of the climbing stuff is true - Daryl & I were friends from his earliest climbing days & also partners for years.

OMG he finally admits some kinda climbing hey look we have one thing in common..

Stewart work on ur being nice to people on this forum DUDE!


Having stated that, it's not my fault that you're too dumb to locate the climbing content that I've posted in the past.

Just comments like DUMB don't contribute to this community It makes u look like an old man up on his MTN who wont talk to anybody.. Stewart if you got any old pictures or maybe you climb at STONEY POINT let us know..

Did you ever climb with BOODAWG?
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jan 11, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 11, 2016 - 03:34pm PT
Steve W's picture above reminds me of this "Article from a Canadian newspaper" that was floating around the internet a few years ago:

From The Manitoba Herald , Canada ;
by Clive Runnels, December 1st 2010

The flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada has intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased patrols to stop the illegal immigration. The recent actions of the Tea Party are prompting an exodus among left-leaning citizens who fear they’ll soon be required to hunt, pray, and to agree with Bill O’Reilly and Glenn Beck.

Canadian border farmers say it’s not uncommon to see dozens of sociology professors, animal-rights activists and Unitarians crossing their fields at night. “I went out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood producer huddled in the barn,” said Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield , whose acreage borders North Dakota . The producer was cold, exhausted and hungry. He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range chicken. When I said I didn’t have any, he left before I even got a chance to show him my screenplay, eh?”

In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher fences, but the liberals scaled them. He then installed loudspeakers that blared Rush Limbaugh across the fields. “Not real effective,” he said. “The liberals still got through and Rush annoyed the cows so much that they wouldn’t give any milk.”

Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet liberals near the Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station wagons and drive them across the border where they are simply left to fend for themselves.” A lot of these people are not prepared for our rugged conditions,” an Ontario border patrolman said. “I found one carload without a single bottle of imported drinking water. They did have a nice little Napa Valley Cabernet, though.”

When liberals are caught, they’re sent back across the border, often wailing loudly that they fear retribution from conservatives. Rumors have been circulating about plans being made to build re-education camps where liberals will be forced to drink domestic beer and watch NASCAR races.

In recent days, liberals have turned to ingenious ways of crossing the border. Some have been disguised as senior citizens taking a bus trip to buy cheap Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a half-dozen young vegans in powdered wig disguises, Canadian immigration authorities began stopping buses and quizzing the supposed senior citizens about Perry Como and Rosemary Clooney to prove that they were alive in the ’50s. “If they can’t identify the accordion player on The Lawrence Welk Show, we become very suspicious about their age.” an official said.

Canadian citizens have complained that the illegal immigrants are creating an organic-broccoli shortage and are renting all the Michael Moore movies “I really feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy just can’t support them.” an Ottawa resident said. “How many art-history majors does one country need?”
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 11, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
Brilliant!
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 11, 2016 - 04:29pm PT
pyro: I you had any reading skills, you would have noticed my post - I don't know how many days ago - when I mentioned this fact. Also, if you had troubled to read previous issues of Alpinist magazine you would have seen a picture I took of Daryl on Zodiac Wall.

I have no intention of being nice to you. Not only do I despise Trump, but also those who seem to feel that he isn't a cancer eating at the spirit of common decency in the United States.

Even so, I could possibly (through gritted teeth) attempt to treat you with courtesy if even once you had attempted to use verifiable information to justify your adoration of that horrible excuse for a member of the human race.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 11, 2016 - 10:49pm PT
What many forget is what Trump represents, that so many say that does not exist-----a choice.

the liberals yell that Hillary is simply a conservative in disguise.
the conservatives scream that Jeb is a closet liberal.

But TRUMP.

He is a CHOICE.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 12, 2016 - 07:36am PT
Yes he is.

Drinking out of the toilet is a choice, too.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 12, 2016 - 09:54am PT
Now the news is saying that Bloomberg may run on a 3rd Party ticket.....

Maybe Trump was working for HIM all along!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 12, 2016 - 10:13am PT
Trump has apparently stolen George Orwell's political notes, and is using them as his campaign playbook. He addresses his assembled supporters using the 1984 reality-control techniques of double-speak, double-think and history revisionism. The uneducated, blue-collar mob then responds to Trump's blatherings with an extended-play version of the Two Minute Hate.


It would all be amusing, if it weren't true.


Another Trump Tidbit: the city of New York approved his plans for Trump Tower only after Trump agreed to certain conditions regarding use of the property. One of those conditions was that the otherwise unacceptable Tower design have a lobby that would remain public space, somewhat like an indoor park.

Recently, Trump removed the public benches and installed a retail counter, the Trump Store, that sells things like the Trump Make America Great Again baseball cap. The city building and planning department has declared that the bench removal and the retail counter violate the terms under which they originally approved the Tower's plans. The city has demanded that Trump replace the benches, remove the store, and restore the lobby's public-space status.

Not surprisingly, Trump has declared that he will not remove the store, replace the benches, nor abide by the terms under which he was able to build the otherwise unacceptable Trump Tower. Trump is using his lawyers to fight the city over the issue of his unilaterally "renegotiating" the terms of the original building permit.

Trump and New York City Spar Over Access to Tower Lobby



The depth and breadth of his sociopathic Trumpzpah is essentially unbounded. He always has to be the Top Banana, and if he's not, he changes the rules, or brazenly violates them. He is still the same oversized schoolyard bully who would bellow at his classmates, What are you gonna do about it?



HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 12, 2016 - 10:15am PT
Tom: This is how you know China and Iran wouldn't stand a chance with Trump! He's literally fighting city hall! He is unstoppable!!! SO MUCH WINNING!!!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 12, 2016 - 10:35am PT
I don't understand how it can considered that Trump's violation of a contract, to benefit himself and to the detriment of the other party, is "winning".

That is like saying that a cat burglar who empties a safe of jewelry, fences the diamonds for cash, and doesn't get caught is "winning". Or, that an employer who refuses to pay wages after work has been completed is "winning".

Was Leona Helmsley "winning" when she refused to pay a mason who had built a massive outdoor barbecue at her Connecticut mansion? Was she "winning" when she declared that the mason's need to feed his children would not exist, if he had simply "kept his pants on"?




"Renegotiating" an agreement after you have received your benefit, by simply refusing to honor your own obligations, is not "winning".

It is, by turns, larceny, fraud, deceit, and breach of contract.



Trump is the self-declared master of this sort of immoral business chicanery, and he has stated that fraud, deceit and deception are what the United States needs to be doing, all around the world, right now.

Trump: I Screwed Gadhafi - CNN

Donald Trump: I Screwed Gadhafi - Huffington Post


Trump is rich precisely to the degree that he has impoverished others through wile, deception, clever legal maneuvering and a wanton disregard for how his actions adversely affect others.
John M

climber
Jan 12, 2016 - 10:40am PT
Tom…. HDDJ was being facetious.

But thanks for reminding us who Trump really is. I suppose if Trump reneges on the federal debt, then we can save 15 trillion dollars. Woot ! Of course that would probably lead to WW3 with china.. but who cares about that. we would be saving 15 trillion dollars!!!!1!!!111!!! that requires a double woot. Woot Woot !!!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 12, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
One good thing Trump has going for him:

At least he's consistent, when it comes to being fixated on where other people were born. He says Ted Cruz's place of birth (Canada) poses a serious impediment to his viability as a candidate. This continues Trump's absurd, ignorant and misinformed xenophobia that caused him to demand Obama's birth certificate.

But, Trump's concern about Cruz mostly falls upon the deaf, dumb and blind in his own political party. More GOP members believe that Ted Cruz was born in the United States, than believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States.

40% of GOP voters believe that Ted Cruz was born in America - 29% believe that Barack Obama was born in America.


Again and again, the polls show that a huge bloc of GOP voters are blindly oblivious to facts, truth and accurate statements.



The GOP is now, conveniently, invoking Ted Cruz's mother's U.S. citizenship as proof of his eligibility to be President, regardless of where he was born. (Like Obama's father, Cruz's father was not a U.S. citizen.)

Presumably, the GOP was unaware that Barack Obama's mother was a U.S. citizen when they were demanding proof of Obama's place of birth.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 12, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
As a proud Canadian, you have my consent (if you think it will help help you guys deal with the Ted Cruz debate) to use him as fish bait.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 12, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
We need a smart, ruthless sob to counter the menace of the frosty backs to the north, the wet backs to the south, and the rag heads invading from the sky as well as through our enemies to the north and south.

That's it I'm voting for Bernie.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 12, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ted-cruz-is-not-eligible-to-be-president/2016/01/12/1484a7d0-b7af-11e5-99f3-184bc379b12d_story.html

A pretty convincing constitutional argument that Cruz is not eligible.

Plus another Repub nominee who thinks it is problematic, Paul.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Jan 12, 2016 - 09:37pm PT
How did Rick and I end up on the same rope? End days is pretty funny.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 13, 2016 - 04:09am PT
"That's it I am voting for Bernie "

Now that is comedy. Lol.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Jan 13, 2016 - 04:57am PT

We need a smart, ruthless sob to counter the menace of the frosty backs to the north, the wet backs to the south, and the rag heads invading from the sky as well as through our enemies to the north and south.

From the north, the south, the sky, these are all viable directions from which to perceive a threat, but we are most vulnerable to those who would seek to undermine at the core of the good earth beneath our feet, to chink away from below at the principles of democracy, to erode away at our standing and reputation as that of a balanced, well adjusted, and stable society.

I'm talking about the Mole Men, people! The politicians these days have no clue as to what constitutes the real threat to our existence as Americans. The Mole Men will be the unexpected X problem of this century that catches us with our pants down, as they burrow up and into our bathrooms while we're sitting on the john.

The Mole Men only want one thing from us. They want to take away our dignity. Well, you can rest assured that today's political candidates are not about to let that happen. The Mole Men can't take away something we no longer have. The smiling, cheating, lying, conniving, and despicable politicians have already done most of that that for us.

But be there one shred of dignity left to us, you could be guaranteed that there would only be one candidate capable, strong enough, and probably willing to champion our cause against the Mole Men. That person would be Superman. But unfortunately he would be ineligible to run for office because he does not have US citizenship. That's because Superman is from Krypton.

dirtbag

climber
Jan 13, 2016 - 07:12am PT
Trump sounds like an 8 year old with ADD.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jan 13, 2016 - 07:42am PT
I was born in Christchurch, NZ. My father was American, my mother a Kiwi. My birth was registered with the US Embassy as a 'citizen born abroad' and I still have the original document. I was acknowledged by the US, at birth, as a US citizen. I was a natural born citizen from birth. I have always thought that I could be president.

New Zealand also recognizes me as a citizen, because my mother was a Kiwi and I was born in NZ; I also have an NZ passport. My daughter, who was born in Seattle, is a US citizen by both birth and parentage; she is also a New Zealand citizen because I was a natural born Kiwi. My daughter has NZ citizenship and also has an NZ passport.

Cruz, although I really loathe the guy, was born American because his mother was an American. If his birth was not registered with a US embassy, however, I think that citizenship vanished. There are reports Cruz' mother voted in Canadian elections; if she did, she had effectively renounced her US citizenship. So, in my supremely considered legal opinion, if Cruz was not registered at birth as a US citizen born abroad, he is not eligible to be president.

Interestingly, Mitt Romney's father George Romney was born in Mexico and was running for president without anyone bringing up all the 'natural born citizen' stuff. And finally, the Repubs can't have it both ways; if Cruz, who WAS born outside the US, can be president, then Obama, who WAS born in the US and who had an American mother, is eligible to be president. The same rule that applies to Cruz has to apply to Obama; the Repubs should apologize for all the bullshit about Obama's birth. But that will never happen.

Edited to prevent the grammar police from arresting me.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 13, 2016 - 10:41am PT
And finally, the Repubs can't have it both ways


They consistently try as hard as they can, to have it both ways.


They want liberty and free enterprise, and want to deregulate their own (nefarious) business activities. Simultaneously, they want to enforce their own faux-moralistic behavioral controls on others.

They want to eliminate the "welfare state" and kick the "moochers" off the public dole. But, they want their corporate tax breaks and loopholes, subsidies, and whenever possible, huge bailout packages at taxpayer expense.



Not ironically, it isn't the Democrats who are calling Ted Cruz's eligibility into question. It's his fellow Republicans. I don't recall any question about Obama's eligibility coming from the Democrats when he was running in 2008. The Republicans are more cannibalistic than the Democrats.

zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 13, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
And what did Adolph Hitler have to say?


Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 13, 2016 - 06:33pm PT
Malemute: Bingo.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 14, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
The perversion of politics
is the art of transferring money
from the general public
to yourself & your friends.

nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jan 14, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
hahaha. just when i thought it couldn't get any more surreal:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Jan 14, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
Damn nah000...you beat me to it ;-(

the hypocrisy just doesn't get much better than that...especially when you juxtapose that performance with the fear mongering, anti-immigrant, anti-muslim hate speech
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 14, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
Even though I declared my vote for Bernie above, i'll put my money on Trump assuming his unprecedented rally crowd numbers translate to his nomination.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 14, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
If history repeats itself, boisterous rallies will lead to election success.



Here are the original political rally dancing girls:


[Click to View YouTube Video]






Trump is nothing new . . . . . .
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 14, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
Bring on duh chump.

Expose these losers.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 14, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
Tom - If my memory serves me correctly, BdM translates to "The League of German Maidens", the female branch (I think) of the Hitler Youth.

The parallels are chilling.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 14, 2016 - 07:05pm PT
Yah, mein gut herr, Stewart.


BDM ist der Bund Deutscher Mädel.




HEIL HAIRCUT!



zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 14, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
Those Hitlerettes are something else. Pretty low budget film. Looks to be looped about 7 or 8 times.

Trump has those productionvalues down.

Never give a sucker an even break.



dirtbag

climber
Jan 19, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
Lol, Sarah Palin is endorsing him.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Jan 19, 2016 - 03:34pm PT
here's what the girls were really thinking...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 19, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
Concentration Camp Inmates Had To Rebuild A Nazi Refinery The Koch Brothers' Dad Helped Construct,
The fascist regime used slave labor from Auschwitz.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/koch-refinery-nazis_us_569e9870e4b00f3e9863266c?utm_hp_ref=politics

Which GOP Fascist are the Koch Brothers endorsing for President?
Who will do the slave labor for them, Latinos, Blacks, Muslims or Red State republican White Trash?
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jan 19, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
The other side of Craig's coin.

Dave Robertson, the president and chief operating officer of Koch Industries, wrote this email to Koch’s employees:

Recent media reports have highlighted a series of false and inaccurate claims about Koch made by Jane Mayer in a book that will be released later this month. As we have told the media, we declined to participate in her book and have not read it. If its content is anything like Ms. Mayer’s previous comments about the Koch family, Koch Industries, or the Kochs’ political involvement, then we expect to have deep disagreements and strong objections with her interpretation of the facts and their sourcing.

Of the many false and inaccurate claims that have leaked out so far, the implication that Fred sympathized with one of the most tyrannical regimes in history is reprehensible and represents the lowest form of journalism. Ever since the New York Times reported on this allegation, we have conducted an extensive archival search to collect the facts and share them with you. We firmly believe that you deserve to know the truth about the history of the company you represent.

Between 1928 and 1934, Winkler-Koch Engineering handled more than 500 projects. Of these, 39 involved signed contracts to build cracking units. One of those units was included in a refinery in the port area of Hamburg, Germany, built for Foreign Oil Co. of Boston. During this period, Winkler-Koch worked on hundreds of other international projects, including work in England, Scotland, France, Canada, Romania, the Soviet Union, Persia and India. Winkler-Koch also worked on similar projects throughout the United States, including in Oklahoma, Arkansas, Wyoming, Illinois and Ohio.

Winkler-Koch’s contract with Foreign Oil was signed on Sept. 8, 1933, and the refinery became operational March 23, 1935. That signing was nearly six years before Germany invaded Poland. Meanwhile during that same period, many iconic U.S. companies were doing business in Germany, including Coca-Cola, General Motors, Ford and IBM. While this was Winkler-Koch’s one and only project in Germany, some of those companies continued to do business in Germany throughout World War II.

Simply put, this cracking unit was just one element in the composition of a single refinery. To state that Fred Koch was “hired to build the third-largest refinery in the Third Reich, a critical industrial cog in Hitler’s war machine” is an outrageous assertion. To cherry-pick one project among hundreds during this time frame and then use it out of context in order to further an agenda-driven storyline is grossly inaccurate.

It is a sad commentary on today’s political and media environment that we even have to address such a false and horrific charge. Many of the other claims made about the Koch family are even more preposterous. Suffice it to say, Fred Koch opposed all forms of tyranny. He was a great man who built a great company. Under the leadership of his son Charles, we are proud to continue his legacy.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 19, 2016 - 04:19pm PT
But...they DID build the project in question.

And most boys comprehend that defending oneself by saying "But So and So was doing it too!" doesn't usually help their cause by the time they are 15 years old.

The book is about the Koch family, not about Coca Cola, GM or any of the other myriad companies that allowed their greed to turn a blind eye to what was going on in the field of Eugenics(which developed decades before Germany invaded Poland).

And I don't think the Koch brothers would disagree with this statement: "...since many human societies sought to protect the underprivileged and weak, those societies were at odds with the natural selection responsible for extinction of the weakest; and only by changing these social policies could society be saved from a "reversion towards mediocrity".."

That is, after all, the way they believe is correct for survival of the best businesses. It also happens to be a theory of Francis Galton, a 19th Century proponent of Eugenics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_eugenics

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 19, 2016 - 04:24pm PT
The author of 'Dark Money' was on Fresh Air (NPR) today. Worth a listen.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 19, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
Ready for Palin?

I thought she had died. I was wrong. Still shrill.


EDIT:
But wait.

"Sarah Palin's Son Track Arrested on Domestic Violence Charges on Eve of Trump Endorsement"


"Michigan Governor Snyder Apologizes for Flint Water Crisis, Says 'I Will Fix It'


"Hawking: Earth Is (Likely) Doomed, Humanity Needn't Be"



They just don't write 'em like that anymore.



nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 19, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
One bigoted nutcase idiot supporting another. Nothing to see here.


The republican base must be shitting themselves. She was their worst nightmare 8 years ago. Nothing has changed.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jan 19, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
Izzat right? I would've thought she is part of the "GOP Establishment".
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 19, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
Has Palin shown us a copy of her high school diploma yet?

If so, was it issued in Kenya?

EDIT:

Happiegrrrl2: That quote was also stated pretty well verbatim in Mein Kampf.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Jan 19, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
Luke and Emma for President!

My two black Labs, Luke and Emma are throwing their hats into the presidential race and are running with the Green Party. If you ever met him you’d find that Luke has true integrity, not like that Ella Trumpaphant, and to top it off he’s the sweetest lovin’ dog I’ve ever known.

Of course Emma is way, way smarter than Spara Palean and all her tribe put together, and sometimes Emma eats her own poop.

-bushman
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jan 19, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
^^^^. Black Labs Matter!

Susan


10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 19, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
Meanwhile in Wasila, Alaska, palin's son celebrated his mothers' endorsement of trump, by being arrested for beating up his girlfriend.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/sarah-palins-son-track-arrested-on-assault-and-weapons-related-charges/
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 19, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
^^^^. Black Labs Matter!
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 19, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
1ob4me! Re your mention:

Meanwhile in Wasila, Alaska, palin's son celebrated his mothers' endorsement of trump, by being arrested for beating up his girlfriend

I snorted up some wine on that one! Thanks anyway.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 19, 2016 - 06:45pm PT
It's Wasilla Fritz, with 2 l's. As far as Sarah, she should have stayed as mayor. The world wasn't ready for her and she could have spent more time keeping the kids on the straight and narrow.

zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 19, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 19, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
Who are Trump’s supporters in America? Authoritarians.

By Kathleen Parker Opinion writer January 19 at 7:52 PM 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/authoritarians-agree-trump-for-president/2016/01/19/407f58ec-bef0-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-d%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

So you say you want a daddy for your president?

Okay, so maybe you didn’t say it, but on a subliminal level, you may have felt it, especially if you’re a Republican primary voter leaning toward Donald Trump.

Such is the finding of a recent national poll unveiled in the current issue of Politico Magazine. The survey’s author, political consultant Matthew MacWilliams, found that Trump supporters tend to be primarily “authoritarians.”

This shouldn’t come as a surprise, since “authority” sums up the content of both Trump’s persona and his campaign. How many times have you heard him say, “Believe me,” usually following some sweeping promise that has virtually no basis in reality?

But Big Daddy’s the boss. What he says goes. Case closed.

more at link


Looks like there may be more conservative brains exploding over Trump than liberals

David Brooks is losing it: Trump’s success and ideas not connected to “Planet Earth” have broken the right-wing pundit’s brain

Times columnist urges the "silent majority" of moderate GOPers to take on the Donald. Problem: it doesn't exist
http://www.salon.com/2016/01/19/david_brooks_is_losing_it_trumps_success_and_ideas_not_connected_to_planet_earth_has_broken_the_right_wing_pundits_brain/
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jan 19, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
Here's the web link Craig:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/authoritarians-agree-trump-for-president/2016/01/19/407f58ec-bef0-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-d%3Ahomepage%2Fstory[/url]

Yep.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber
Will know soon
Jan 19, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
And no, I am not ready for Donald. I'd seriously vote for A. Honnald before Trump.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Jan 19, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
OK now I'm really convinced that Trump is NOT a serious candidate. How could anyone who is a serious candidate for the GOP nomination want Sarah Palin's endorsement?

If you listened to Palin's speech, I'm surprised Trump could endure it without his head exploding.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 19, 2016 - 09:41pm PT
What's the difference Warbler? You don't have to wonder what the Russians are up to in AK, the Russian emigres are crawling all over the place. Not defending Palin, but what she actually said was that you can see Russia from Alaska. This is true from the islands and portions off the Seward peninsula.

That aside, it takes a severely delusional group of people to seriously think this country could afford, or ever accept, the volume of freebies Bernie is babbling about.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 19, 2016 - 10:26pm PT
Healthcare has been so fuked up that now we have little choice but to go to a national single payer system. In the world we live in we either pay for a strong defense or suffer far more costly consequences. Who is going to drive the trucks, work the factory floors, build the homes, put out the fires etc etc if everybody is wiling away their time in free college? Who is going to pay for paternal leave, wage guarantees and all his other loon programs? You know it ain't going to be the mega wealthy-no they'll just pack up their assets and off shore. No amigo, it would be you and me and all the meager assets we have spent a lifetime in creative and hard work to now enjoy.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jan 19, 2016 - 11:01pm PT
The citizen support for Trump - and OMG - Sara Palin - causes me to seriously consider renouncing US citizenship and sending back the Resolution from the House of Representatives congratulating the FA of The Nose.

I am hopeful that sanity will prevail, but it is terribly disheartening that such a large proportion of our population is so reactionary and. so intellectually impaired. I don't want to be identified with them.

Yes, I'm a dual citizen, and sometimes I don't know which one to be more embarrassed by.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 05:28am PT
Rick posted
Healthcare has been so fuked up that now we have little choice but to go to a national single payer system.

You are mistaken. The things that messed up healthcare was not doing this to begin with.

Warbler posted
More like SHE isn't ready for the world outside of Alaska

She's made millions of dollars and is worshiped as a cultural icon by millions of people. Her endorsement makes national headlines. I'm not sure how one can argue she "wasn't ready" for her current role.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 06:42am PT
Palin endorses Trump? What next, the Kardashians?
I thought Tom Wolfe's "Bonfire of the Vanities" was kind of a warning.
Turns out it was a template.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 20, 2016 - 07:04am PT
Who is going to drive the trucks, work the factory floors, build the homes, put out the fires etc etc if everybody is wiling away their time in free college? Who is going to pay for paternal leave, wage guarantees and all his other loon programs?

Wait just a dog gone second. You rightwingers have been claiming for years that laborers are justly underpaid because they didn't have the gumption to go to college and become CEOs. Now you say they can't go to college because someone has to do the work? Make up your mind!

Who is going to pay for paternal leave, wage guarantees and all his other loon programs?

Who's paying for half trillion dollar fighter jets that can't fly when it rains?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 20, 2016 - 07:20am PT

Nothing more to add.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 20, 2016 - 07:29am PT
. The world wasn't ready for her

Don't you mean that she wasn't ready for the world?

Btw, she just put her place in Arizona up for sale. Hmmm.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 20, 2016 - 07:33am PT
Universal health care and free basic college would be investments that would pay back in the form of better health, better education and the following increased productivity.

Better those kinds of freebies paid for with tax revenue, than the freebies for the "defense", insurance and financial industries we have now.

Now what do you think would happen to the puppet-in-chief if he or she really threatened the MIC's bottomless pool of stolen/printed dollars?

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 07:40am PT
Palin is a professional victim, incoherent speaker and blight on our cultural landscape but that doesn't mean she should be attacked for her son's actions.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 20, 2016 - 07:42am PT
Why not? She knowingly transmitted Affluenza to him.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 08:08am PT
Because it just contributes to the overall nastiness and keeps politics focused on character assassination at all costs. Track is a grown ass man making his own terrible decisions. We all have shitty relatives and it doesn't necessarily mean anything about us. Palin is awful on her own merits and we don't need to drag her kids into it unless it actually proves something like is Palin justified Track's behavior or used political influence to get the charges dropped.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 20, 2016 - 08:09am PT

Palin is a professional victim, incoherent speaker and blight on our cultural landscape but that doesn't mean she should be attacked for her son's actions.

Sure it does. It means she is not respected by him. She is ineffectual as a parent, and dog forbid she got a job in the cabinet.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 08:22am PT
U.S. defense spending compared (2013)




If it is doubled, will everybody be twice as safe?
dirtbag

climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 08:24am PT
Well, defense industry employees would be doubly safe.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 20, 2016 - 08:33am PT
I understand your point, HDDJ. Every parent knows you only have so much control over your kids actions. But it is interesting that her kids are somewhat of a train wreck while the 2 people she attacks the most, President Obama and Hillary Clinton, obviously have greater parenting skills.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 20, 2016 - 08:37am PT
Well boys, in case you haven't noticed the world is going to hell in a handbasket. We do need to spend heavily on defense. What we don't need is more nation building, arming of various unknown factions on the theory that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, or surgical strikes. This globalist ideal is not working out to we'll in a world that can't even get along on a local level. We need to protect what we have, take care of our own, and become self sustainable here amongst our near neighbors. Ring the rest of the fanatics (mainly from n. Africa through the middle east) with steel and punish their terrorist excursions tenfold.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 08:49am PT
Well rick, I agree with you there, a re-prioritization is in order. As to the details ... ?

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 20, 2016 - 08:54am PT
Leave it the generals and defense secretary, if we can find and employ any rational effective ones.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 09:39am PT
Very interesting poll:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/poll-florida-trump-gop-218015

Trump leads Cruz 48-32% in Florida, which is a huge prize. Home grown Rubio and Bush have only 11 and 10%. I think we have to consider Trump to be a slight favorite at this point to win the nomination.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 09:50am PT
crankster posted
I understand your point, HDDJ. Every parent knows you only have so much control over your kids actions. But it is interesting that her kids are somewhat of a train wreck while the 2 people she attacks the most, President Obama and Hillary Clinton, obviously have greater parenting skills.

I don't think we need to bring people's kids into play when judging their parents in politics. Gore's son has had his share of trouble. Chelsea was being mocked by right wing media for the crime of being an awkward teenager daughter of someone whose politics they disagreed with.

dirtbag posted
Trump leads Cruz 48-32% in Florida, which is a huge prize. Home grown Rubio and Bush have only 11 and 10%. I think we have to consider Trump to be a slight favorite at this point to win the nomination.

It's hard to wrap my head around but it's seeming more possible. I think it's quite likely that things will shift when the field narrows because while trump has gained some support, he still ranks poorly in the "second choice" category. With 65% of Republicans still favoring other candidates, it's quite possible they will throw their support around an alternative as their first choice leaves the race. Is Cruz a better choice? I honestly can't say. Judging from Trump's past positions I actually have more faith that Trump would make reasonable decisions than a screaming ideologue like Cruz. Trump is an egotist and shameless self-promoter who is saying a lot of truly ugly things to get elected but he's also not married to a bizarre, destructive ethos.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 20, 2016 - 09:55am PT
Leave it the generals and defense secretary, if we can find and employ any rational effective ones.

Oh, yeah, leave a fox to guard the hen house, too. You clearly were not in the military or you
would know that the vast majority of generals got there by strictly adhering to the Peter Principle.
A few smart and ethical ones slipped through the cracks but they are usually ignored or shunted
to some meaningless command where they can't interfere with the MI Complex. The truly
intelligent and ethical officers rarely make it past colonel/captain, if that.

ps. sorry, I re-read yer statement and in my state of Ebola just realized we are in agreement. ;-)
dirtbag

climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 10:10am PT
It's hard to wrap my head around but it's seeming more possible. I think it's quite likely that things will shift when the field narrows because while trump has gained some support, he still ranks poorly in the "second choice" category. With 65% of Republicans still favoring other candidates, it's quite possible they will throw their support around an alternative as their first choice leaves the race. Is Cruz a better choice? I honestly can't say. Judging from Trump's past positions I actually have more faith that Trump would make reasonable decisions than a screaming ideologue like Cruz. Trump is an egotist and shameless self-promoter who is saying a lot of truly ugly things to get elected but he's also not married to a bizarre, destructive ethos.

Weird, huh? Cruz is still a strong contender.

In late 2015, I kept thinking Rubio would emerge as a frontrunner, both because primary voters would finally come to their senses , and the establishment field would narrow. I've given up on the first scenario, and the second hasn't really happened yet.

Still, if Rubio or Bush were to become leading establishment-type candidates, I would imagine them to be getting some traction first in Florida. That hasn't happened. The other establishment candidates are doing even worse

Every once in awhile, Trump says something that isn't crazy. For example, while he says he is opposed to the Iran deal, he also has said that he would not walk away from it on day one of his presidency. Despite his big talk, he is not the biggest hawk in the race.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 20, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
Why not? She knowingly transmitted Affluenza to him.

I was fortunate. My parents got the affluenza vaccine shot.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 20, 2016 - 01:46pm PT
Obama made him do it...

While speaking at a Donald Trump campaign stop Wednesday in Tulsa, Okla., Sarah Palin addressed the "elephant in the room": her son Track's domestic violence arrest. And she seemingly pinned it on a perceived lack of respect for military veterans on the part of President Obama.

"My son, like so many others, they come back a bit different, they come back hardened," she said. "They come back wondering if there is that respect for what it is that their fellow soldiers and airman and every other member of the military so sacrificially have given to this country," she added. "And that starts from the top."

"That comes from our own president," she elaborated, "where they have to look at him and wonder, 'Do you know what we go through? Do you know what we're trying to do to secure America?'"

"So when my own son is going through what he goes through coming back, I can certainly relate with other families who kind of feel these ramifications of some PTSD and some of the woundedness that our soldiers do return with," she continued before pivoting back to her Trump endorsement. "And it makes me realize, more than ever, it is now or never, for the sake of America's finest, that we have that commander-in-chief who will respect them and honor them."
dirtbag

climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
It's nice to see that she has spent her time in the political wilderness becoming an all-around policy wonk.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
I heard the Palin sound bite this afternoon and was pretty appalled. Maybe her son IS struggling with PTSD, but fer god's sake if he is - he apparently threatened to blow his head off in front of a woman he supposedly cares for and just punched. I think the world would understand if Ms. Palin chose to fly home and get her son the help he needs instead of campaigning.

And instead of sticking with the trauma aspect that so many of our young soldiers are enduring, she wants "now more than ever!" a president willing to send more of them directly into battle against an objective that has no clear definition.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
It's tempting to think the whole Palin-Trump spectacle is really just an elaborate bit of performance art.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 20, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
I was amused by Palin's incoherent mis-matching of disparate GOP agenda shouting points:


We aren't going to chill. We are going to drill, baby, drill down, and make these folks accountable.


Priceless.

Hulk Hogan, Randy The Macho Man Savage, or Vince McMahon couldn't have been more childishly absurd.



Trump has adapted his WWF fake wrestling act to his presidential campaign. Soon, he will finalize his performances by throwing his microphone to the floor, to emphasize how angry he is, and then stomp off the stage in a huff.



zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 20, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
Why are there two Trump threads?

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 20, 2016 - 08:20pm PT
. I think we have to consider Trump to be a slight favorite at this point to win the nomination.

It's more than slight.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jan 20, 2016 - 09:07pm PT
He'll win.

Are we gonna "kick ISIS'S ass or "kick ISIS ass?

Is ISIS plural?

Would one say "Gee, those ISIS have bad breath" or "How 'bout that ISIS'S breath!" ?

dirtbag

climber
Jan 21, 2016 - 07:44am PT
Trump has been deemed to be "anti-establishment," but is he really? In one narrow sense, sure, because he is going against the Republican Party grain.

On the other hand, at a broader level, Trump has been quintessentially pro-establishment, having benefitted tremendously from the benefits his socio-economic position has brought. It's not like he eschewed his silver spoon, or all its privileges, or ever had a job where he got his hands dirty.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 21, 2016 - 07:53am PT
Trump is authoritarian. The common denominator among Trump supports is an inclination to authoritarianism.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 21, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
Trump is at heart a builder, a general contractor. The general in general contractor is really like it is, you are the general and all else in the organization are subordinate. Is that authoritarian? From my perspective as a general contractor of 30 years it isn't so much as an authoritarian position as a whatever it takes to get the job done properly position. General? Yeah you feel like the general

Now as far as his current tactics in the campaign (war), I don't know if the Palin endorsement causes a net vote gain or loss. I think it was more a preemptive move to deprive Cruz of getting more traction with the more religious base as she was probably being actively courted by Cruz.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jan 21, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
I doubt it's going to move a lot of votes directly. What it does do, is start clearing the way, for the fractious GOP "establishment" to start making their peace with Trump. Little guys will get out. Then his numbers improve.

For Palin though, hopping on the bandwagon early, should be worth a cabinet spot. Assuming Bernie loses. A huge assumption.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 21, 2016 - 02:16pm PT
Trump is a GC like I'm a rocket surgeon. I'd be surprised if he could extrapolate pertinent info from a set of detailed plans.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 21, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
Werner - While we all blather on about the news du jour, it gives YOU something to go on about! It's like you can't help yourself from watching the bunch of dummies on your computer screen, just like we can't help watching the dummies.....


It's the Vicious Cycle of internet life.

overwatch

climber
Jan 21, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
Cabinet spot...brutally clever there, heysus
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 21, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
The Cabinet is not the proper place for Sarah Palin.

She belongs in the Hatch.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 21, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
Why in the hell are we doing all this amateurish speculating and arguing back and forth when we could simply ask the Smoking Duck?
Norton

Social climber
Jan 21, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
Why not Donald picking Sarah as his VP?

They are of comparable intelligence and seem to like each other very much.

She has shown that she has used the past seven years wisely by studying up on
all that foreign and economic policy stuff so she is fully qualified to be VP.

She is already imploring the Donald supporters to donate money to her "travel fund"
so she can follow Donald around to rallies and help him out.

What do you think, Trump/Sarah 2016?

please join me in voting for Donald to be the nominee in your state's republican primary, he is the right person to face Hillary in the general election.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jan 21, 2016 - 06:31pm PT



WHAT SPECIFIC CONCERNS DO FOLKS HAVE WITH SOCIALISM?




I almost started a new thread, but I figured this is the right audience here and we don't need yet another political thread. Why is democratic socialism scary for some folks? It does not represent the privatization of property or businesses in general; rather, it represents the removal of profiteering middle-men in industries where free market dynamics do not lead to improved outcomes for the vast majority of people. It is a thoughtful hybrid of free market capitalism, with an oversight for environmental and healthcare and education interests that reflects the will of most people rather than the survival of the fittest" economic powerhouses that under our current political environment does not take into account the real costs that enable the current economic powerhouses to dominate. It reduces profit earned through unseen human misery in intolerable working conditions. It reduces profit earned through extortion, where losing all worldly assets is the better alternative than death and painful suffering for lack of an available treatment. It reduces profit through the uncompensated consumption of public resources that our future generations should have access to.

I can see the potential concerns for bureaucratic hoops to jump through for government replacing insurance... but honestly, would those growing pains be any worse than what we have today with companies explicitly trying to screw you to maximize profits?

I just don't get the thought processes of "conservative" republican minds. I know you aren't all stupid... there must be another perspective or a more visceral reaction to a reality I don't grasp that sets us apart. I'm trying to understand your perspective.


Or is it simply that fear of other religions wiping out our way of life, fear of immigrants taking our jobs, that looms so large that all other issues or logic are irrelevant? I'm trying here...

I have to believe there is something deeper behind support for Trump than the machismo b.s. posturing, a desire for a "strong" leader to take care of you.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 21, 2016 - 06:32pm PT

Trump + Palin = Dumber and Dumbest

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 21, 2016 - 08:51pm PT
They helped created the monster...

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/01/21/menace-to-american-conservatism-national-review-aims-to-sink-trump-with-special-anti-trump-issue/
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 21, 2016 - 09:30pm PT
Palin is a professional victim, incoherent speaker and blight on our cultural landscape but that doesn't mean she should be attacked for her son's actions.

This is why I would beg to differ
Sarah Palin Blames Obama For Her Son’s Domestic Violence Arrest
http://samuel-warde.com/2016/01/sarah-palin-blames-obama-for-her-son/
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 21, 2016 - 09:40pm PT
it represents the removal of profiteering middle-men in industries where free market dynamics do not lead to improved outcomes for the vast majority of people

I'm not aware of any agreed upon game plan for universal socialism particularly
with regard to this broad brush stroke. If you've been to Europe and paid
the outrageous prices for many things there you would know that profiteering
middle men are alive and thriving.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jan 21, 2016 - 11:12pm PT
Reilly, I've been to Europe a handful of times. One time in Spain my ex-wife had a pain in her hip bad enough to make her go to a hospital. We had no idea how the system worked- went in, relatively short wait time (considering no appointment and no apparent emergency), got it checked out, got X-rays, got it interpreted by someone, discharged with ZERO cost to us! I was flabbergasted that even as tourists from another country we received the benefits paid by citizens of the country.

I agree the cost of many material goods are similar to America but the lower wages makes it harder to lead an extravagant lifestyle. They have trouble keeping their governments solvent. And of course greedy people will find a way to corrupt and subvert whatever system is designed.

But the principle is a valid one, the best I can dream up, of using government intervention to represent the interests of the people with respect to the environment, healthcare, and education, against the profit-motive which drives capitalism. Mind you I like the profit motive a lot, and firmly believe in capitalism, but I don't think it should drive policy for everything in our life.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 21, 2016 - 11:28pm PT
I agree that children should generally be off limits. Bristol might be an exception, since she has sought public attention and is an adult.

However, Sarah also should not have used her son to take cheap political shots at the president.
Degaine

climber
Jan 22, 2016 - 12:11am PT
Reilly wrote:
If you've been to Europe and paid
the outrageous prices for many things there you would know that profiteering
middle men are alive and thriving.

With regard to healthcare, you have no idea of what you're writing about.

In France, a visit to your GP costs 23€ (of which the national health insurance pays roughly 17€). In the US, depending upon where you live, the cost (billed to insurance) is somewhere between $100-$200 of which the patient usually has a copay (often up to $30). An ultrasound costs around 70€ in France, in the USA, for a pregnant woman, the cost is at least $250 and can be as high as $1000.

The cost of healthcare per capita in the USA is $9000 per year, and several million people are still uninsured. The cost per capita in France and Germany is half that, and in Japan the cost per capit is 1/3 of what it is in the USA, yet in the latter three countries outcomes are far better and everyone is covered.

Or maybe you knew that and were just talking about a plate of overpriced pasta you ate once at a tourist trap in Rome?
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jan 22, 2016 - 07:02am PT
you're a republican if you can listen to Sarah Palin for 2 minutes and not get a headache.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 22, 2016 - 07:04am PT
Sarah Palin - Money grubbing, white trash.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jan 22, 2016 - 08:14am PT
but that doesn't mean she should be attacked for her son's actions.

Actually, I'm attacking her for her actions.


After her son goes bezonkers, where is she to support her family? I mean, a total family melt-down, in her home. And where does she go the very next day?

Soulless.


I have no respect for parents who aren't there for their children. Especially public figures, whose #1 priority should be their offspring. I mean, if they don't care about their own children, how on Earth will they care for others.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 22, 2016 - 08:17am PT
I think it's weak to make assumptions about someone's character because they did not respond to a family crisis in the manner we imagine ourselves doing. We don't know the dynamics or the details. It's a family issue and he's an adult.

Now, her decision to find another way to make this an issue of her family being victimized by the President is another case all together...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 22, 2016 - 08:19am PT
With regard to healthcare, you have no idea of what you're writing about.

You guys have serious reading comprehension difficulties. What part of
"profiteering middlemen" implies anything pertaining to healthcare?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll get back to my article on the ECB and Mario Draghi.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jan 22, 2016 - 08:22am PT
I think it's weak to make assumptions about someone's character because they did not respond to a family crisis in the manner we imagine ourselves doing.

I respectfully disagree. If her son was not in her home, out living on his own, then yeah, maybe...maybe she would have a defense that he is no longer part of her family.

I don't care who you are, if your immediate family is in crisis, you go to help. And this is especially true if you are a public figure who is trying to gain some sense of responsibility.

At least any parent for whom I have an ounce of respect, they take care for their family.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 22, 2016 - 08:23am PT

However, Sarah also should not have used her son to take cheap political shots at the president.

That's right, palin is the one who decided to politicize the situation.
If she is going to blame a president, she should blame bush.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 22, 2016 - 08:25am PT
Just a guess Reilly, but maybe Insurance companies = "profiteering middlemen"


edit; Palin's son is a vet right? He fought in Iraq? PTSD?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 22, 2016 - 08:26am PT
If she is going to blame a president, she should blame bush.

why is she blaming anyone other than herself (and her husband)?

and people revere this waste of skin?


but otherwise there's a legion of veterans that agree with you.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jan 22, 2016 - 08:27am PT
What would the Putinator have done..?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 22, 2016 - 08:27am PT
Reilley posted
You guys have serious reading comprehension difficulties. What part of
"profiteering middlemen" implies anything pertaining to healthcare?

Healthcare is chock full of profiteering middlemen.

10b posted
That's right, palin is the one who decided to politicize the situation.

People began politicizing it the moment it hit the news. Her comments are just being used to retroactively justify it.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 22, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
Healthcare is chock full of profiteering middlemen.

I worked in the medical device industry. I know people who have worked in that industry. And I know others who've worked in the pharmaceutical industry.


The general consensus is:

In dealing with people in the medical device and drug industries, you are lucky if you only have to deal with a profiteering middleman.


There is so much money to be made, those industries attract an astonishing number of unethical, single-minded, greedy sociopaths.

Look at that Shkreli guy in NYC, who jacked a medicine for pregnant women and HIV patients 5000 percent overnight.

Or the pharma companies that invent "maladies" (the latest - "Binge Eating Disorder") and then peddle tablets claimed to cure the disease. But, these "medicines" are rapidly and fraudulently pushed through the FDA approval process, and they wind up causing real medical issues, including death.

Other pharma companies illegally encourage doctors to prescribe drugs "off-label", for non-approved uses. The companies pay a percentage of their huge profits as a fine, and then continue breaking the law.

Olympus made duodenoscopes that were poorly designed, and hard to clean. When patients became cross-patient infected and died, Olympus tried to hide those cases from their other customers. When UCLA wanted replacement scopes for their defective ones, Olympus refused, saying UCLA had to pay for the new ones.




The medical companies are politically very powerful. They are among the best at manipulating the system, through donations, bribes and lobbying, to enable them to legally victimize the public. The corruption extends right up to the very highest level of the Federal Government.

The two biggest recipients of medical industry political payoffs in 2008? Obama first, and Hillary second.

Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Jan 23, 2016 - 03:48am PT
Herr Trümp

A'cloistering from south to north,
All gathering to waddle forth,
They flock to him from west to east,
All rabid fans to say the least,

And read the measure of the man,
With heads sunk firmly in sand,
They gravitate in fervent bands,
With outstretched arms and clenching hands,

And signing on their fate is sealed,
By the deal this pompous ass has wheeled,
The angry mob to which he appeals,
Their hearts and minds now to him steeled,

With posture arrogant and snide,
His art to heckle and deride,
He's courting power like a bride,
All lack of pretense set aside,

So far and broad his net is cast,
Stifling all protest un-harrassed,
His billions hold his minions fast,
Blinding them to his checkered past,

He's brainwashed most and suckered in,
His 'art of the deal' the support he wins,
His wealth and power a polished gem,
To hypnotize and dazzle them,

So trumpets forth the Trump-full mind,
And delegates to them in kind,
To stir up Tea Bags left behind,
What dregs that Sara Palin finds,

To criticize and to ostracize,
All those unfaithful and so unwise,
To doubt false patriotic lies,
All this I shudder to surmise,

To say that once I did believe,
This land was made for you and me,
I know now freedom isn't free,
And love of money's n'er the key,

Mistake not others lack of dearth,
What's given some right from their birth,
While others die and bleed to earth,
How can we measure what that's worth?

A sacrifice honored with pride,
A treasure spread so spare and wide,
It leaves no unturned rock to hide,
So vote, it counts how we decide,

I give you this soliloquy,
To think beyond fear what could be,
Should we provide the recipe,
For Donald Trump and World War Three.

-bushman
01/22/2016
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 23, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
I think the Donald is over his head and wondering how the hell he got himself into this mess, headed for the Republican presidential nomination. He probably was hoping for a lot of press that would drive the worth of his brand sky high. He had a hint there might be a lot of crazy people like him out there, he briefly led the polls prior to the last election even after he'd gone full Birther.

And he's right about this...
Updated at 2:45 p.m.

During a Saturday rally in Iowa, Donald Trump said he wouldn't lose any support in the presidential race from voters even if he shot someone.

"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" Trump said, according to video from NBC News. "It's, like, incredible."


Trump made the comments while discussing how solid support for him is.

"I have the most loyal people," he said after citing his wide lead in the polls.

He said that support for his Republican rivals is "soft." Trump said that when people learned that Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) was born in Canada, he lost supporters.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 23, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
I think the Donald is over his head and wondering how the hell he got himself into this mess, headed for the Republican presidential nomination. He probably was hoping for a lot of press that would drive the worth of his brand sky high. He had a hint there might be a lot of crazy people like him out there, he briefly led the polls prior to the last election even and he'd gone full Birther.

I still think that he made somebody a bet: Hillary, Bill, someone.

He deserves to win that bet, in spades.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 23, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
The Palin thing is nothing short of bizarre.

I don't see how it can hurt him (can anything?)

Bloomberg might be a different story, if he runs 3rd party, as it's reported he's considering.
Norton

Social climber
Jan 23, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
I don't see how it can hurt him (can anything?)


While Sarah is only an endorsement, her involvement with McCain turned his lead
over Obama into an Obama landslide victory within 60 days as the public and press
vetted Palin, and America about puked.

But today Donald says he could pull out a gun and shoot somebody and not lose
and voters.

Ain't he sumthin?

Please join me in voting for Donald to be the Republican nominee in your state's Primary, only he is the correct choice to face Hillary......
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 23, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
But today Donald says he could pull out a gun and shoot somebody and not lose any voters.


Truly, astonishing. This, from someone ostensibly suitable to be President.

A self-image of invincibility is not just narcissistic, it is a primary mental defect among sociopaths, psychopaths, serial killers and mass murderers.


What's next?


"This bitch, who I used to screw - a great little piece of ass, by the way - this little bitch, who I used to screw - alot - she said she wanted more money. She said she wanted more money from me. She wanted my money. MY money. So, you know what I did? You wanna know what I did? Ya wanna know? I did THIS!"

(pulls Marla Maple's severed head from a sack)

(the crowd goes wild, calling for more blood)






Bushman, your song is great.


rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 23, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
How much will you pay me for my vote Norton?

I'll tell you what; you vote for Bernie in the primary and I'll vote for the Donald.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 23, 2016 - 04:06pm PT
While Sarah is only an endorsement, her involvement with McCain turned his lead
over Obama into an Obama landslide victory within 60 days as the public and press
vetted Palin, and America about puked.

While that is true, I don't think it captures the dynamics of the decision.

I think McCain (and team) looked around, and saw that they had absolutely NO CHANCE of beating Obama in a conventional way. So their choices were:

 just sit there and take the loss on the chin

 try something totally out of the box, with a very high risk/outcome ratio.

Obviously, they chose the latter, which if you think about it, is not surprising when you think of McCain.

Confronted with that choice, what would we want the leader of the country to do?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 23, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
Fritz and Tits, 1984. Same idea: experimental politics in the face of sure defeat.








EDIT for clarification

Walter "Fritz" Mondale and Geraldine "Tits" Ferraro vs. The Gipper and the guy who was in the Dealey Plaza manhole
Norton

Social climber
Jan 23, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
How much will you pay me for my vote Norton?

I'll tell you what; you vote for Bernie in the primary and I'll vote for the Donald.


sorry Rick, I can't vote for Bernie in the primary because I am a registered Republican
Jorroh

climber
Jan 23, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
Trumps's done a masterful job of corralling the gumby wing of the Republican Party so far, but I have to say I'm a little bit worried about some of the things that he has been saying recently.

He's crowing about it all a bit too early, even slipping into self-parody.
As brain dead as many of his supporters are, if they catch wind that they're being played for fools (admittedly, they would probably have a hard time discerning such a thing) then he's toast.

In order to inflict maximum damage on the GOP, Trump has to either get the nomination, or force the establishment to blatantly disregard the will of their voters and find some way of dumping him at the convention....I'm happy with either outcome, but it needs to get that far.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jan 23, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
The whackos that support Trump have no problem with Sarah Palin and vice versa. Fortunately there isn't enough of them to win a general election, and Trump will try to walk back on his disgusting remarks and fail miserably.

The GOP is doomed because enough of their base is so deluded that they drag them into an untenable position.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 23, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
I was going to vote for McCain in 2008,until he brought Palin on board. I worried that McCain would die in office & we would be saddled with a right-wing wackadoo that talks with God, as our President. I switched to Obama, and have not regretted it.

October/Nov. of 2008 I spent 3 1/2 weeks in Nepal & did a 16 day trek with friends into remote Mustang. I brought a couple Palin masks, we had made at home, for our middle-of-nowhere Halloween party.



Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 23, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 25, 2016 - 09:24am PT
In the battle of the network dunces, Cruz just signed up Rick Perry.



http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rick-perry-endorses-ted-cruz-president/story?id=36497065



PERRY: I will tell you, it is three agencies of government when I get there that are gone. Commerce, Education, and the -- What's the third one there? Let's see.
(LAUGHTER)
PAUL:
Five.

PERRY: Five. Okay. Commerce, Education, and the --

[UNKNOWN]: EPA?

PERRY: EPA. There you go.

Q: Seriously -- is EPA one you are talking about?

PERRY: No, sir, no, sir. We are talking about the -- agencies of government -- EPA needs to be rebuilt.

Q: You can't -- you can't name the third one?

PERRY: The third agency of government I would -- I would do away with Education, the --

Q: Commerce.

PERRY: Commerce and, let's see. I can't. The third one, I can't. Sorry. Oops.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 25, 2016 - 10:59am PT
Jorroh
are you calling Pyro and Cosmic gumbys?

Trump is just saying what they think, what's so bad about that?

Hitler also said a lot of things people thought, nothing went wrong then
why now?

And Hitler's poll numbers, they were HuGGGEEEEE
He was out polling everyone....

You can get a lot of mileage by calling everyone a loser and the current President weak
That's all some people want to hear.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 25, 2016 - 11:07am PT
You can also get a lot of mileage out of portraying the truth about the state of our union Craig.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 25, 2016 - 11:14am PT
You mean the Truth that Obama has done a great job

and it's better than any Republican President since Eisenhower?

Yes, to bad Trump lies about our state of the Union to get support
all the right wingers love to believe the Fox lies about the job our President is doing

They refuse to believe the truth,
it's like the truth hurts so bad, that they just deny it instead
and the lies sound like the truth

is that your problem rick?
Jorroh

climber
Jan 25, 2016 - 12:00pm PT
"are you calling Pyro and Cosmic gumbys?".... tin foil to the max.

"Trump is just saying what they think, what's so bad about that?"... because its utter nonsense.

"Hitler also said a lot of things people thought"... very true, I hate the narrative that says that Hitler led the german people by the nose, with intimidation and propaganda, to eventually become Nazis. The fact is that Hitler was a product of that society and it moulded him just as much as he moulded it.

"And Hitler's poll numbers, they were HuGGGEEEEE"...not that huge in the last reasonably free elections (1932 I think). Unfortunately it seems that in most societies there is a pretty sizable minority (20-40%) that has the frame of mind that makes them very susceptible to that sort of BS.

Bottom line is that I have a hard time taking Trump at face value ... but I really can't even guess what he's up to.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 25, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
Bottom line is that I have a hard time taking Trump at face value ... but I really can't even guess what he's up to.

Thanks or saying exactly what I've been thinking as this mess unfolds. Unfortunately it's starting to look like a real possibility that we may not be guessing for long...
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 25, 2016 - 12:29pm PT
Both trump and sanders are populists.

I am curious to who draws the bigger crowds. I think this would be a good barometer if the contests comes down to those two. I think sanders would be more attractive to the masses, but I don't know. There are a lot of under educated, and ill informed people in this country.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 25, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
Wrong
Hitler won with a 90% vote
Hitler's polls were HuGGEEEEEeeeee


Hitler Endorsed by 9 to 1 in Poll on his Dictatorship,

Absolute Power Is Won
38,279,514 Vote Yes, 4,287,808 No on Uniting Offices

Negative Count Is Larger in Districts of Business Men and Intellectuals


Reich Bishop at Victory Fete Says Hitler's Anti-Semitism Is Fight for Christianity


By FREDERICK T. BIRCHALL

Special Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES


Berlin, Monday, Aug. 20 1931
Eighty-nine and nine-tenths per cent of the German voters endorsed in yesterday's plebiscite Chancellor Hitler's assumption of greater power than has ever been possessed by any other ruler in modern times. Nearly 10 per cent indicated their disapproval. The result was expected.
http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0819.html





All natural populations of humans contain about 20-28% authoritarians
Almost all of them are right wingers.

Probably about 20 to 25 percent of the adult American population are right-wing authoritarians, so scared, so self-righteous, so ill-informed, and so dogmatic that nothing you can say or do will change their minds. They would march America into a dictatorship and probably feel that things had improved as a result. … And they are so submissive to their leaders that they will believe and do virtually anything they are told. They are not going to let up and they are not going away.
Bob Altemeyer

I am convinced that at least a third of the population is what Eric Hoffer calls "true believers." They are joiners and followers . . . people who want to give away their power. They look for answers, meaning, and enlightenment outside themselves. ....They are followers, not because of a desire for self-advancement, but because it can satisfy their passion for self-renunciation!" Hoffer also says that true believers "are eternally incomplete and eternally insecure"! ......The Moral Majority is made up of true believers. All cults are composed of true believers. You'll find them in politics, churches, businesses, and social cause groups. They are the fanatics in these organizations.
The Battle for Your Mind: Brainwashing Techniques Being Used On The Public By Dick Sutphen
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 25, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
“The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth.”
Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956), American humorous journalist

“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.”
Gustave Le Bon, “The Crowd”

“The statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.”
Mark Twain, “The Mysterious Stranger” (1910)

"They must find it difficult...those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority."
Gerald Massey

Patriot: the person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he is hollering about.

Mark Twain

"The men the American people admire most extravagantly are the most daring liars; the men they detest most violently are those who try to tell them the truth."-
H. L. Mencken

"It is more than just gullibility that explains the phenomenon of the authoritarian follower. Can you imagine John Yoo, Alberto Gonzales, or David Petraeus going against the will of George W. Bush on any matter when he was in power? That would be highly unlikely because their positions of high power depended entirely on putting all their energy into anticipating the needs of and pleasing their “leader”. George Bush started out the same way. As governor of Texas, all his efforts went into pleasing his corporate cronies. In return, they rewarded him handsomely by ensuring his material wealth and serving as a power base for his climb to the presidency. Lobaczewski describes the process as one of sycophancy: "They initially perform subordinate functions in such a movement and execute the leaders’ orders, especially whenever something needs to be done which inspires revulsion in others. Their evident zealotry and cynicism gives rise to criticism on the part of the more reasonable members, but it also earns the respect of some its more extreme revolutionaries. They thus find protection among those people who earlier played a role in the movement’s ponerization, and repay the favor with compliments or by making things easier for them. Thus they climb up the organizational ladder, gain influence, and almost involuntarily bend the contents of the entire group to their own way of experiencing reality and to the goals derived from their deviant nature."
Time for Change: Why the Corrupt Few Wreak So Much Death, Destruction, and Suffering on the Rest of us
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 25, 2016 - 01:25pm PT

Are you Ready for Bloomberg?
Jorroh

climber
Jan 25, 2016 - 03:52pm PT
not sure quite what you're saying there Craig but...

NOVEMBER 6, 1932
NAZIS LOSE SUPPORT IN PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS
In the Reichstag (German parliament) elections of November 1932, the Nazis lose almost two million votes from the previous elections of July. They win only 33 percent of the vote. It seems clear that the Nazis will not gain a majority in democratic elections, and Adolf Hitler agrees to a coalition with conservatives. After months of negotiations, the president of Germany, Paul von Hindenburg, will appoint Hitler chancellor of Germany in a government seemingly dominated by conservatives on January 30, 1933.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 25, 2016 - 03:57pm PT
I'm saying his POLLS were HUGGGGGGEEEEE
1931

until they weren't huge anymore

I'm just kidding around Jorrah
I agree with you bro
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 25, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
There is no "Ready for Carly?" thread, so I'll put this here:


2 indicted for making fake Planned Parenthood baby-parts video


As I recall, Cruz and some of the other GOP reality-deniers also jumped up and down about the fake video, calling for the swift defunding of Planned Parenthood.




Greg Abbot, GOP Governor of Texas, initially called for the investigation into the video, seeking to gain ammunition for the destruction of Planned Parenthood. Clearly, his intent was to skewer Planned Parenthood for "selling baby parts", and not to obtain facts related to the video, or to go where those facts led.

When the Grand Jury finally showed the video to be a fake, and exposed the people responsible for making it (two Texas residents), Abbot refused to concede the existence of the evidence. Instead, he doubled-down on his original, baseless allegations, and said that Texas would continue to investigate Planned Parenthood for illegally selling fetal tissue.

This, I suppose, is what good, right-wing Texan conservatives mean when they talk about reducing government waste - Continue on with a demented witch hunt, at taxpayers' expense, even when the Gov's own investigators show there is no basis, at all, for the original allegations.





Sometimes, tenacity and single-mindedness of purpose is just frickin stoopid. Texas Republicans are just frickin stoopid.




EDIT: So far, the Grand Jury has not linked the makers of the fake video to the triple homicide at a Colorado Planned Parenthood clinic. Statements made by the shooter indicate that he was, least partially, incited to action by the fake video.

Planned Parenthood has sued the makers of the video. I hope the shooting victims' families do, too.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 25, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
Well said, Tom.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 25, 2016 - 05:22pm PT
Craig, do you get paid for this non stop political blathering? I certainly hope so. It would be sad indeed if you spent this much time for nothing.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 25, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
Maybe the chump
could n-rig
the election,
eh sumner?

Still no definition
from you on what
n-rig means.

Care to clarify?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 25, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
N-rig; verb

To create, repair or fix something in a less-than-ideal manner, as with an improvised, short-term solution; to incompetently, or hastily construct or repair something; to construct or repair something in the field, without adequate materials, tools or skills.


N-rig comes from the name "Enrique", because that's how Mexicans fix things 8->


I bet you thought it meant, "N-Word-Rig". Well, it doesn't.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 25, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
Yeah right,
amongst the good ol boys.
This is not your local tavern.

What does the N
stand for.

Man up and type it out.

Love and respect.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 25, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
don't go gettin' riggity onus

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 25, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
I'm guessing Craig is smart enough to bang out a few comments here in under 3-4 minutes. That leaves a pretty big chunk of the day to do whatever. Like watch the next president engage in a town hall with fellow citizens.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 25, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
I will give you a hint:

The word is cleverly hidden in this Los Angeles street name:


La Cienaga Boulevard



When backwoods Billy-Bobs pronounce La Cienaga, it is phonetically identical to the word.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 25, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
Quit playing
uncle Tom.

Tell us
for real
what the N
means.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 25, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
Okay pee head.

You tell me what
the N means.

Love and respect.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 25, 2016 - 09:18pm PT
Type it out for
real pea head.

Want me to
do it
for you?
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 25, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
I see.
You think your
one of the
good ol boys.

Pathetic.

Just like
duh chump.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 25, 2016 - 10:17pm PT
The thing about his success is that he has no problem expressing what a lot of people believe after spending their lives being told they're illegitimate socially by more academically privileged people.
Um... I couldn't disagree more strongly, but I'd love to hear your explanation of the bold statement above.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 25, 2016 - 11:41pm PT
He's also a draft dodger, the other two are chickenhawks.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 25, 2016 - 11:42pm PT
I've seen a lot of bombast, self promotion, and over the top characterization in his life to this point, but lies Jim, really?

It may not be pretty, but he is speaking the truth in this campaign that others are too chickenshet to vocalize. We'll soon see if his huge base of diverse supporters can actually channel their enthusiasm to caucuses and primary turnout.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 25, 2016 - 11:55pm PT
...but lies Jim, really?

Seriously?


Trump's statements by ruling

True...................1 (1%)(1)
Mostly True.......5 (6%)(5)
Half True.........14 (17%)(14)
Mostly False...14 (17%)(14)
False...............33 (39%)(33)

[ politifact ]

The ‘King of Whoppers': Donald Trump
He dominates our annual review of political falsehoods.

[ factcheck.org ]
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 26, 2016 - 01:16am PT
Trump's latest blatant lie:

He tells an audience, "I could stand on Fifth Avenue and shoot someone (points finger like a gun to the crowd) and I wouldn't lose any votes."

On CNN, Wolf Blitzer asks him about this. Trump dismisses the question, saying that the comments came from the "dishonest press". Pressed further with the question, Trump says, "You know I was joking. I was laughing when I said it. It was a joke. I was laughing, the crowd was laughing. Everybody in the room was laughing. We were having a good time."

However, in the video of his "I can shoot someone on Fifth Avenue" speech, it clearly shows that Trump is not laughing. Throughout this entire segment, Trump is stone-cold serious in what he is saying. He never laughs, and never smiles. A few people from the audience can be heard laughing, but Trump remains stoic the entire time.


What Trump told Wolf Blitzer was a blatant lie. Trump is a LIAR.

Worse, Trump is a narcissistic sociopath who declares that he can commit murder on a New York City street, and get away with it.

Then, Trump reinvents the video to be a product of the "dishonest press", in an effort to evade scrutiny of his statement.

Trump then attempts to use the Orwellian reality-control technique of revising history to confirm and validate his fraudulent narrative.



All of this took place while Trump was being filmed. He is truly mentally ill, to believe that the power of his lies overcomes the power of the video film.

Trump's self image seems to be that of a magical, or God-like entity, capable of changing reality by simply making a false statement.




Here are the relevant videos. Sorry for the ad spots.


CNN VIDEO: Trump says, "I could stand on Fifth Avenue and shoot someone, and not lose any votes."


CNN VIDEO: Trump tells Wolf Blitzer, "I was laughing when I said that. I was joking. The whole room was laughing. We were having a good time.



Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 26, 2016 - 01:35am PT
He has exploited a political slipstream that resonates with a majority of disenfranchised Americans.
Interesting.

Disenfranchised? From my perspective, the only disenfranchised people in America who are attracted the Trump are the ones who feel they should still be allowed to own slaves and lynch black people on sight.

I don't want these people in my country, so let them be disenfranchised. They're becoming a smaller and smaller minority anyway, albeit more vocal. I call it their "death rales."

Anyone who supports Trump is not welcome in America.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jan 26, 2016 - 06:11am PT
i don't know if you've said some or all of that previously, Brennan, but those three posts above have some of the most succinct and insightful analysis regarding trump, salesmanship, disenfranchisement, the working class and a continued growing political reality in the u.s. that i've seen anywhere. thank you for putting a few things, that i hadn't quite been able, into words as well as making a few points i hadn't considered:

"...with an ability to make anyone feel like he's offering them a drink..."

"...he has no problem expressing what a lot of people believe after spending their lives being told they're illegitimate socially by more academically privileged people."

"Tump is the first candidate to not insult his voter base by offering a Utopian ideal of what their life could be VS what their life is."

"Trump made it a point of pride in his "Art of the Deal" book that lying and cheating come first and if you don't like it, you're not cut out for business in the first place."

[with emphasis added]

from this perspective, trump's candidacy is the most emotionally rooted of all of the candidates. [by saying that, it shouldn't be interpreted as my disproportionately discrediting his campaign.]

and so i'd agree/argue that his candidacy is based on an almost purely emotional exchange. while this is true of all candidacies to one degree or another, with trump it has reached an almost apex [or nadir depending on how you look at it.]

the emotional exchange also helps explain "what's in it for trump?" while he is, of course, not going to refuse the power and potential for making money that comes with the presidency, i'd argue that ultimately there is an emotional void in trump that gets filled by crowds of people showing up to love/support him, by his polls being "uuuuuge" and etc. and so for him it's not really about what he can directly get financially but rather it is what he is getting in this present moment and will get in the future, emotionally.

on the other hand the crowds get someone who emotionally acknowledges what they, as the less educated and working class, have been told their entire life either directly through emotional/social language [that they are less legitimate and less valuable] or indirectly through financial language [that they are less legitimate and less valuable]

and trump tells them exactly what they want to hear:

"all of these political elite have lied to you" [this is the truth, as they have been lied to: if not unabashed lies than at minimum presidential candidates always run on what they hope to do, by saying that they will do it, when if they were honest they'd acknowledge that the structure of the democracy of the u.s. doesn't allow for idealistic exploration]

"it's not your fault, it's the lying political elite's fault" [a partial lie: leaders and followers are always in it together and they always share responsibility]

"you think it's all of the immigrants faults? i'll build you a wall. i'll keep the muslims out." [another partial lie and partial truth: the lie is that i don't think trump really believes, as one example, that it's really about immigrants. you just have to look to his history as a new yorker and a businessman at the top of an industry [construction] that very regularly doesn't give two hoots about a person's papers as long as they'll exchange life force for some green paper, to be suspicious of the obvious. the truth part is that trump probably would try to build a wall. hell he might even succeed at it...]



and from this vein i also disagree with SLR's: "They're becoming a smaller and smaller minority anyway, albeit more vocal."

i don't believe this is true from two angles.

first, the obvious angle: they are in the process of taking over one party within the u.s.

i'm not aware of this happening to this degree before. while this voice really started to be expressed with palin [it makes a thousand per cent rational sense that she would back trump as they are peas in a pod politically] it did not have near the backing then, that it does now.



secondly, there is a larger majority that the trumpites are a part of that both groups of supporters would renounce whole heartedly.

that is because i'd argue, as others have, that trump and bernie are also, at a very base level, birds of a political feather.

and i'll paraphrase something JEleazarian said somewhere on this board that succinctly sums up that connection:

they both believe it's a zero sum game.

trump is running in part on the idea, that america is being stolen from, by those who are below.

whereas bernie is running in part on the idea, that america is being stolen from, by those who are above.



neither are primarily true.

america has, in the last fifty years at least, been stolen from, primarily, by those who are in the middle. [edited this as the way i originally worded it was quite confusing]



if you think it's wo/men in boardrooms who demand that bananas be 49 cents a pound regardless of whether they come from banana republics or not, you don't understand business, you don't understand capitalism and you don't understand the intelligence of the wo/men in the boardrooms.



america always gets what it votes for: whether that vote is done with a ballot or with a greenback.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 26, 2016 - 06:19am PT
S(pud), drinking does not enhance your posting skills. Give it a rest, dude.

Trump is not going to be the next president. Hillary is. Forum Bully may be right about a large percentage of Americans being stupid, just not most voters.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 26, 2016 - 06:56am PT
america has, in the last fifty years at least, been stolen from, primarily, from the middle.

Yet the wealth of the nation becomes more and more concentrated at the top.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jan 26, 2016 - 07:36am PT
Gary wrote: "Yet the wealth of the nation becomes more and more concentrated at the top."

agreed.

the point is what is the vehicle for that concentration...

if one thinks the vehicle is primarily upper class greed, i'd disagree with the word primarily.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 26, 2016 - 07:49am PT
nah000, I get your point now. I read your statement as meaning the middle has been doing the stealing. The lower and working class has already been beat down starting back with the "Reagan Economic Miracle" which consisted if gutting unions, cutting wages and benefits and relocating jobs. Now it's the middle class's turn.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2016 - 07:55am PT
Anyone who supports Trump is not welcome in America.

That's not a factual statement. You could revise it to be an indication of your opinion, which you're entitled to, but you don't have the authority to choose who is, and who is not, welcome in "America."

Were it me, I would have written "I am fairly dumbfounded by the idea that someone would actually support Trump as a presidential candidate, and if I ever meet such a person, it will sadden me greatly to have to revise my opinion of them on several levels."

You know - I actually do not know a SINGLE person who has stated they support Trump. Even those that I know, who stand GOP, have not declared support. Should Trump win the nomination, I think they will cast a vote in his favor, just as many Democrats will do the same for Hillary Clinton, though they wish there was a different candidate in her stead.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jan 26, 2016 - 09:56am PT
sorry Gary... that was some painful wording on my part. i reworded it in the original post, because i think you understood it correctly in your first post.

i am saying that the primary vehicle for the gutting of the u.s. middle class is the middle class themselves. that said, just because they are the primary cause and the primary victims, doesn't mean they are the primary beneficiaries...

greed can be a bit of a bitch that way.
John M

climber
Jan 26, 2016 - 10:07am PT
Trump's statement about being able to kill someone and his voters still being willing to vote for him is less about him and more of an indictment of those who would vote for him. They are so enamored of him that it doesn't matter what he does, they will still vote for him. That is a scary kind of power.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 26, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
It seems to me that Trump's platform consists of two planks:

1) Spite.
2) Greed.

It sickens me that many people appear to feel that it is acceptable for a candidate for the presidency of the U.S. to promote these values.
couchmaster

climber
Jan 26, 2016 - 02:37pm PT

The best thing about Trump is what makes Bernie so attractive as well. Neither has been bought and sold by the corporists. Trump is self funding (although he'll be taking in $cratch no doubt) and Bernie is only getting funds from the multitudes. I didn't believe Trump would still be in it now. I'm especially stunned he's leading in the polls, and I have @ $300 bet against the man. Shows you I don't know my fellow citizens at all. However, neither Trump nor Sanders will be beholden to the special interests and in that regard, both are better than Hillary and Jeb!.

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 26, 2016 - 04:03pm PT
Trump has a long-known reputation of "being beholden to special interests." Unless you consider organized crime not to count.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 26, 2016 - 04:25pm PT
So the latest news is that Donald is not participating in Thursday's debate because big bad Megyn Kelly is moderating, lol!

Yeah, he's a real tough guy.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters,"

Probably about 20 to 25 percent of the adult American population are right-wing authoritarians, so scared, so self-righteous, so ill-informed, and so dogmatic that nothing you can say or do will change their minds. They would march America into a dictatorship and probably feel that things had improved as a result. … And they are so submissive to their leaders that they will believe and do virtually anything they are told.
Bob Altemeyer
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 26, 2016 - 05:30pm PT
moosedrool: The solution is to vote for neither. They're both strutting pustules.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2016 - 05:30pm PT
What happened to Jody
He is a Cruz man.

We need more Cruz supporters to debate the Trump supporters

Which one do you prefer ??

Liberals? if you had a choice..

Cruz vs. Trump
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jan 26, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Trump in a heartbeat. At least he doesn't (I think) want to turn the US of A into some sort of crypto-Christian fascist state. Well, at least he doesn't want the Christian part. My biggest issue with Cruz (except for the fact he's obviously an as#@&%e) is his desire to turn everyone into an evangelical Christian; just leave me alone, Ted, and let me believe what I want to, as I allow you to.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 26, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
Just like this thread

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2016 - 05:49pm PT
Wine
Me too...
Anything would be better than a Cruz "World Domination"
Goggle it

He is aligned with the Dark side
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 26, 2016 - 05:50pm PT

So the latest news is that Donald is not participating in Thursday's debate because big bad Megyn Kelly is moderating, lol!

Yeah, he's a real tough guy.

No, he is a chickensh#t.
Actually, I think this a a ploy on his part. I think he is so narcisistic that he thinks he won't lose support if he doesn't debate, and he is probably right.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jan 26, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
Anything would be worse than the Cruz "World Domination"

Anything?

LOL!!!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jan 26, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
The latest I've heard is he is threatening to produce some sort of counter debate with him as the only participant. Frankly, I would watch that before I watch the Repugs again. Fox and the Repugs should take this seriously, because it will really hurt their brand if more people watch the Donald than watch the rest of the clown car.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jan 26, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
I fixed it

Anything would be better than a Cruz "World Domination"

I Goggled it for you
http://www.cnn.com/videos/living/2016/01/26/cruz-world-domination-moos-erin.cnn
couchmaster

climber
Jan 27, 2016 - 05:40am PT

HAHA! BIFF TAKES HIS BALL AND GOES HOME! Can't take the Megan Kelly media heat. LOL! I don't think Mr Trump *cough* Biff *cough* is gonna appreciate what that's gonna do to his poll numbers. Trump? Not a fan. Sorry.

Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Jan 27, 2016 - 07:21am PT

Jan 26, 2016 - 05:30pm PT
What happened to Jody
He is a Cruz man.

We need more Cruz supporters to debate the Trump supporters

Which one do you prefer ??

Liberals? if you had a choice..

Cruz vs. Trump

CRUMPLZ
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 27, 2016 - 07:26am PT
Wine posted
The latest I've heard is he is threatening to produce some sort of counter debate with him as the only participant. Frankly, I would watch that before I watch the Repugs again. Fox and the Repugs should take this seriously, because it will really hurt their brand if more people watch the Donald than watch the rest of the clown car.


It's a really shrewd political move by Cruz. He would basically turn the entire Republican race into Trump vs. Cruz and the other debates would be defacto "kid table" debates. He's a rabid ideologue and a smarmy d#@&%e but a smart guy for sure.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 27, 2016 - 07:38am PT
Huh? It's just a debate.

This clown's fall will be as meteoric as his rise.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 27, 2016 - 07:45am PT
Dingus posted
Frankly, its good to see a politician tell the media to take their f*#king clown show and stick it up their asses.

It's like the guy with the giant suspender hoop pants spraying seltzer water telling the dude on the unicycle juggling dildos that he's not taking it seriously enough.

Honestly, Dingus, if you feel like this is some sort of moment of truth then you aren't really thinking about it. Trump is being completely manipulative. If they cave, he gets to tout his amazing power. If they don't, he gets to look like the guy speaking truth to the power of the evil media. Trump is a con artist and you're his mark.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 27, 2016 - 07:48am PT
I echo DMT'S sentiments. I might add that all msm are guided by an ideology nowadays, although fox' numero uno guiding principle is good old fashioned profit on their core business. Acknowledging that, they'll be keenly aware of indications of viewership and adjust stance as necessary to maintain the high rate of ad revenue.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 27, 2016 - 08:26am PT
Trump is a chickensh#t.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 27, 2016 - 09:48am PT
No one likes him because he is a crass, racist, mysoginistic xenophobe, and a fascist to boot.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jan 27, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and not lose voters."

That may be true, but how can you respect a man who cheats at golf?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 27, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
Every conservative politician knows that bashing the media is a guaranteed applause line. Low Hanging Fruit Picking 101. I am surprised it extends to Megyn Kelly.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 27, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
Hard to choose between Trump and Cruz, but......I think I'd choose Trump.

The main reason is that I really believe that Cruz is actually committed to all the evangelical BS, and really believes in the second coming and that these are the end times. And that it would be his duty to God (which comes before the country or the Constitution), to enable the end by firing every nuclear weapon at everybody.

I do not believe that Trump has such a vision.

Trump has exhibited a sense of self-preservation, Cruz has not.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 27, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
OK, you boneheads. The Trailer Park Boys will explain all ya gotta know
about The Donald, if you can finger out how to fast forward to the 11 min mark, eh?
They also cover the California drought, so you can really optimize yer time!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 27, 2016 - 04:10pm PT
Rand Paul calls Trump a Delusional narcissist and an Orange-Faced Windbag.


[Click to View YouTube Video]



Rand Paul might be the sleeper hit this summer.

skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 27, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
Tom....how did you imbed that? Paul has been making the rounds, and I think showing a positive side...as in on Trevor Noah and The Daily Show

http://www.cc.com/shows/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah/interviews/6yx39d/exclusive-rand-paul-extended-interview
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 27, 2016 - 04:32pm PT
skcreidc,

McTopo makes it easy to embed YooToob videos. There is a VIDEO button at the top of the text window when adding a comment. You paste in the YouToob identification code, which is the part of the YooToob URL that comes after the "=" equals sign.

I guessed that someone (it was Comedy Central) had uploaded that clip to YooToob. CC.COM also uploads Daily Show clips to YooToob.



Rand Paul on the Daily Show, with Jon Stewart, 2015

Part One:

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Part Two:

[Click to View YouTube Video]


Now then:

You, too, can do this for the Trevor Noah interview.







"YouTube" = portmanteau of "You, too" and "Boob-Tube"

"YooToob" = crustancient guy pandering to the illiterate hip-hop generation
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jan 27, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
I still hold a firm belief that he will not win the nomination. He may look like a "winner" right up until the votes hit the ballot box, but media spin and polling stats are just sponsored opinions.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 27, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
Have you posted who you're going to vote for yet, Dingus? Bernie or Hillary? Or Trump? I hope you're going to vote.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 27, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
The scary part about Trump is that he has a concealed-carry permit for the pistol he wears under his $100,000 Savile Row suit.


When he loses at the ballot box, he might revert to being the violent, spoiled brat he was as a child, stamp his little feet in rage, and then stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and start shooting people in front of Trump Tower.


Trump is WHACK



http://geosymmetrix.com/trump2016
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 27, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
Crankster, you still leaning towards Hillary over Bernie?
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 27, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
Kool Tom. I did not know these were on Youtoob...Only the short version is available. The extended version is worth watching.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

edit; crankster. Give Sanders a shot in the primaries. Since Hillary is going to win the primaries according to you, you can vote for her during the general election anyway.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 27, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
I just now saw this:

The latest I've heard is he is threatening to produce some sort of counter debate with him as the only participant.


The recipe for the One-Man Debate starts at 4:00

[Click to View YouTube Video]




That movie was released 45 years ago. The GOP is still wrestling with the issues that Woody Allen deflated back then.


I move for a mistrial. Do you realize there isn't a single homosexual on that jury?

(Mr. J. Edgar Hoover) can you explain to the court why you're dressed (as a woman)?

What is your nationality?

You swear to God, and yet you have no compunction about teaching evolution.

Since you cannot resist disrupting the court, I order the Marshall to bind and gag you.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 27, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
DMT, I think he'll win the nomination. His fall comes in Nov.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jan 27, 2016 - 06:08pm PT
The New York Times has an article suggesting some of the lower card Repub candidates may join Trump in his anti-debate debate so they can help thrash Cruz (who seems to be everyone's friend):

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/01/27/news-analysis-why-trump-walked/

The first part is interesting also, analyzing how Trump benefits from not attending the debate.

Interesting times.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 27, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
Tom: A historical note:

Part of the dialogue you posted from the movie was: "Since you cannot resist disrupting the court, I order the Marshall to bind and gag you."

During the trial of "The Chicago Seven" after the 1968 Chicago police riot during the Democratic National Convention, Judge Julius Hoffman ordered precisely the above action to be performed after deciding that one of the defendants (Bobby Seale), was being disruptive during the court proceedings.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 27, 2016 - 06:12pm PT

Jan 27, 2016 - 04:10pm PT
Rand Paul calls Trump a Delusional narcissist and an Orange-Faced Windbag.
Rand Paul might be the sleeper hit this summer.

Not sure about that, but at least his foreign policy is different from the rest of the repubs.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 27, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
HFCS, I have nothing but good things to say about Bernie. He's a class act, 100%. I think both he and Hillary have run a reasonably fair campaign, certainly one of the cleanest in memory.

That said, I think Hillary's foreign policy experience tips the scales to her. At the town hall the other night she showed command of the issues, the '02 Iraq war vote notwithstanding. .

But hey, I'm a moderate Dem with as many friends to my left as to my right. Well, maybe less to my right, in all honesty. I'll say this, if Bernie gets the nod, I'll be an enthusiastic supporter. I hope his supporters come around and support her if she's nominated. I think most will.

We can not under any circumstances let Trump or Cruz occupy the White House. I'll vote for the person most prepared to defeat them.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 28, 2016 - 07:30am PT
Crankster,

Good to hear it, my sentiments as well.
maxdacat

Trad climber
Sydney, Australia
Jan 29, 2016 - 01:42am PT
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 29, 2016 - 05:11am PT
At either end of the economic spectrum, human development is impaired by exposure to heavy metals - lead for the poor, silver-spoon for the rich




Trump also suffers from a different sort of heavy metal poisoning: auryria

This is a condition that he has brought upon himself by constant exposure to, and excessive ingestion of GOLD.

Auryria has turned Trump orange, like an Oompa-Loompa. The discoloration is permanent.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 29, 2016 - 05:46am PT
It's Trump or Cruz. Heres how it happened:

Five Points On How The GOP Ended Up With A Trump v. Cruz Nightmare

Next week, Iowa Republicans are expected to choose either an erratic New York billionaire or a detested U.S. senator as their party's next nominee for president.

It's Trump v. Cruz -- and the Republican Party is somehow just along for the ride.

After a gut-punching loss in 2012, the Republican Party vowed it would be primed and ready for 2016 with a strong field of candidates who were less focused on serving up red meat to the base and more committed to fine tuning rhetoric that resonated with general election voters.

But it did not go as expected. Now Republicans are facing the very real prospect of a two-man race of their nightmares: Trump – a carnival barker who once donated money to the Clintons and has already alienated Hispanics and Muslims – or Cruz, a Canadian-born, government-shutdown loving, lightening rod.

So how did the Republican Party actually get here?

The Party Pretended Like Donald Trump Was A Bad Dream, Not A Reality.

When he announced his candidacy in June and declared he would build a Mexican-financed border wall, it was easy for the party to think there was no way that voters would buy the empty promises Trump was pedaling.
"I'll be the greatest jobs president that God ever created," Trump said during his presidential announcement.

But Republican Party leaders were caught off guard by their own voters' simmering discontentment. Conservatives were fed up with Washington Republicans. They had control of the Senate and the House but still had not managed to make good on campaign promises like repealing Obamacare or rolling back Obama's executive actions on immigration.

Unlike in 2011 when Trump toyed with the prospect of running for the White House only to bow out, Trump began seriously campaigning and saying things that Republican voters wanted to hear. He made promises like, "I would do various things very quickly" if elected. Most dismissed his surge in the polls as a fluke, akin to the hot-potato GOP primary for the 2012 election where Rep. Michele Bachman won a straw poll in Iowa, then Herman Cain stole the base with his fired-up 9-9-9 flat tax plan. That same race included a moment where it looked like former House Speaker Newt Gingrich or former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum might be president. In the end, the GOP was rescued by the safe, reliable, grown-up Mitt Romney.

But Trump didn't go away this time. He began beefing up his campaign's infrastructure taking a summer of Trump into the fall. And, by the time Republican establishment woke up and began strategizing how to stop him, it was too late (not to mention potentially impossible to begin with.) The Washington Post reported that the party's leadership, including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), were beginning to prepare for a brokered convention in early December, but a more likely scenario has always been that an insurgent candidate like Trump or Cruz may actually have a clear path to the nomination long before then.

A few disparate attempts surfaced this winter to block Trump. From a super PAC supporting John Kasich that sought to call Trump out for his bombastic comments to Trump LLC, a group run by Liz Mair, a former online communications director of the Republican National Committee, that sought to elicit donations from fed-up donors. Nothing has stuck yet.

According to a CBS News poll released earlier this week, Trump is leading in Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina with 39 percent, 34 percent and 40 percent of the vote, respectively.

The GOP Was Never Serious About Changing Its Tune On Immigration.

Mitt Romney's paltry performance with Latino voters had dashed the Republican Party's hopes of pushing out President Barack Obama on election night in 2012. Republican Party leaders vowed they were not going nominate another candidate who preached policies like self-deportation to win in the primary contest.
But the party never did invest in what it would have taken to seriously curb inflammatory rhetoric and push forward with immigration policies that didn't pander to nativism.

Sure, there were a handful of Republican senators –including GOP presidential contender Marco Rubio– who worked in the Senate to pass comprehensive immigration legislation in 2013. The bill provided immigrants in the country illegally with a path to citizenship, but there was no will in the House of Representatives to tackle the issue. The efforts in the lower chamber collapsed quickly and House Speaker John Boehner had little appetite to push his conference forward at a time when he could not even get the party to agree on funding the government or raising the debt ceiling (or ultimately on whether he should be speaker).

So it is no surprise that in the 2016 election, immigration became –once again– a splintering point of contention. It was the metric by which a candidate's conservatism was measured. Once Trump declared he was ready to deport 11 million rapists, thugs, and drug dealers -- to use the Trump shorthand -- candidates competing for the conservative wing of the party picked up his mantle of anger and ran with it.

The GOP Establishment Bet On Bush Before He Was Battle Tested.

When Jeb Bush left the Florida's governor's mansion in 2007, Barack Obama was just beginning to be a household name and Soulja Boy was about to top American music charts. In other words, a lot has changed since Bush was engaged in the day-to-day combat that is American politics. That, however, did not stop major donors from betting on him early. In part because of his campaign's early organization and in part because of his family's close ties to the establishment, Bush hit the campaign trail with a treasure trove of campaign cash.
According to campaign finance reports, the pro-Bush super PAC had raised nearly $103 million in the first half of 2015, far more than Romney had raised in that same time period in 2011. Bush wooed mega donors like Ray Hunt and T. Boone Pickens according to a report from Mother Jones. Bush's strategy all along was to impress the establishment early, spook candidates like Rubio and keep others in his lane from jumping into the race. He was winning a lot of support, but it turned out his performance was not enough to monopolize it.

Bush surprised everyone as a wobbly and out-of-practice candidate. He fumbled over questions about the Iraq war. He stumbled over his position on whether he supported a path to citizenship, and in debates has shown himself to be a shrinking violet in comparison to verbose Trump. By the time donors grew worried, they had already given Bush enough money to keep his candidacy afloat long after it might have been time to bow out gracefully and give one of the other candidates more room to challenge Trump and Cruz.

The Republican Party Is Still Running Those Undercard Debates.

In 2012, it was the sugar daddy mega donors that kept far-out candidates' hopes of the GOP nomination alive. In 2016, it's the undercard debate.
As if the Republican field were not wide and splintered enough, the Republican Party has continued to host two debates, one for competitive candidates and the other for those who are widely viewed as never winning the nomination. Instead of simply requiring candidates to meet a higher threshold in polls, Republicans have sought to be more inclusive.

That inclusivity has come at a cost. The kid's table debates have been a sideshow for voters. They've given candidates like Santorum and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee a lifeline and stage when they are barely registering in early states. The debates have become so much of an inconvenience that one candidate Sen. Rand Paul did not even show at the last one.

This Was Always A Weak Crop of Candidates.

When your 2012 nominee–who lost–is tempted to jump back into the presidential fray to save your party, you know you have a problem.
In January 2015, rumors were flying that Romney was seriously considering another run for the White House out of fear there wasn't going to be a strong enough candidate to rally around.

The field is full, the resumes are long, but there is something missing: a clear man or woman to rally around.

Enter Trump.

ByLAUREN FOXPublishedJANUARY 29, 2016, 6:00 AM EST
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 29, 2016 - 05:56am PT
Perhaps, but there's 9 months left to Nov.. Better late than never.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 29, 2016 - 06:33am PT
The GOP... the DEM, most of the politards in the Taco, my workmates... even the janitor down at the gym ALL THOUGHT Trump was a joke,a TV show, for ratings and effect.

GOP didn't see what they should have seen? Neither did you. Neither did I. Neither did all the talking heads.

Personally, I didn't know what to think when he first jumped in the ring. The people who supported Trump in the beginning, including Pyro here, didn't think he was a joke ect, though. And that group has been steadily growing to what is a sizeable amount of people now. There has been palpable anger at the system for awhile now, and the rest of these guys (except Carson and Cruz) are part of the GOP farm team. Yes, I even think Rand Paul plays by the farm team rules for the most part now.

People have had it. The blacks are tired of their situation, the hispanics are sick of their situation, the evangelicals are tired of what they perceive as moral decay, the middle class is tired of being beat up and shrinking, and most are sick and tired of big money in politics (read all the GOP farm team boys). I mean really, we should have seen Trumps potential to attract at least. Look at how Carson did until he stumbled. TO be honest, I kind of expected the dems to be a bit more pissed off at the system, but the opportunity to have the first female president seems to be a strong pull.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 29, 2016 - 06:42am PT
People have had it. The blacks are tired of their situation, the hispanics are sick of their situation, the evangelicals are tired of what they perceive as moral decay, the middle class is tired of being beat up and shrinking, and most are sick and tired of big money in politics (read all the GOP farm team boys). I mean really, we should have seen Trumps potential to attract at least. Look at how Carson did until he stumbled. TO be honest, I kind of expected the dems to be a bit more pissed off at the system, but the opportunity to have the first female president seems to be a strong pull.

So the "fix" for big money in politics and moral decay is to elect an arrogant, wealthy white guy who has been happy to ride that system for his entire life? "I'm tired of politicians saying whatever they want to get elected let's support this guy who claims he's not a politicians who says whatever he wants to get elected."
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jan 29, 2016 - 06:46am PT
^^^^^^For some people, yes. Trump is seen as a doer by these people, and as someone outside the system who will protect them and their interests.

edit; at least that is my take. I'm not voting for him. I have a harsher version of Trump supporters which I will not spout off here.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 29, 2016 - 06:57am PT
It's going to be Trump leading the team in November.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 29, 2016 - 07:44am PT
Noam Chomsky Interview:

"Enormous Sense of Hopelessness and Anger" Reflected in Appeal of Trump and Sanders


"I don’t agree with Sanders on everything, not surprisingly, but I think he’s a respectable New Deal Democrat whose proposals would help the country considerably." -Chomsky

http://tinyurl.com/j4dorff
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jan 29, 2016 - 07:59am PT
The Party Pretended Like Donald Trump Was A Bad Dream, Not A Reality.

In Fact, the Democrats are guilty of playing pretender much longer. Subscribing to Hillary, being able to get elected for the past 8 years. Even after her losing the 2008 Democratic Primary. Far stronger candidates - such as the Governor of my State - were discouraged.

Now, they are caught in a position, where the only possible salvation, relies on the Republicans to totally immolate themselves. Instead of enjoying the position of dominance they would have with a better candidate. They still have a good chance to win, but it won't be the crushing victory, they would otherwise enjoy.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 29, 2016 - 08:05am PT

Trump is seen as a doer by these people,

How long will it take for trump supporters get mad because he isn't deporting Mexicans, blocking Muslims from immigrating, and there is no wall on the southern border?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 29, 2016 - 08:12am PT
About as long as it will take them to start getting happy that Obama has deported more people than any other president, has greatly increased border patrol and that net illegal immigration is actually negative. This is a fact-proof environment. Like they remember Reagan, these people are excited about how Trump makes them feel and that's really it. Trump is the real world avatar of Stephen Colbert's news anchor character.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 29, 2016 - 08:18am PT
Instead of enjoying the position of dominance they would have with a better candidate

Could not disagree more with this analysis. Comparing the position the GOP is in with the unqualified Trump at the helm to the Dem's situation with the eminently-qualified Hillary is faulty. The Dem race has been civil and issue-oriented. Contrast that with the GOP race. No comparison

What "better" candidate are you talking about? Elizabeth Warren? She has a few elect-ability issues. Biden? C'mon, Joe can't get out of his own way sometimes. I like them both a lot, btw. Who else?

I think you are underestimating Hillary. She is the candidate the right fears running against the most - that's why there's been a cottage industry for years to try to destroy her. The press spins even minor stories into a crises for Clinton.

I think she will beat Trump by a very dominant margin.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Jan 29, 2016 - 09:14am PT
Trump-a-Bot

Our new president announced today computer minds were on the way
All connected to the Trümp-a-net I heard it's coming any day
The procedure will be painless I won't remember anyway
Line up for your Brain-ectomy it's mandatory now they say

There were protests and rallies right before they swore him in
And most of his supporters already had an implant in
Now my sacred first amendment has gone into the drink
They took away my brain today I'm not allowed to think

But the right to shoot my neighbor well preserved now to be sure
To determine if their loyalty to God and Donald's pure
And I know that I'll get 'fired' if I don't become a fink
Go figure that without a brain I'm not allowed to think

With my jackboots and my Mossberg and a souped up SUV
With the spotlight and my Kevlar I'll be well prepared to be
Rounding up illegals and deporting them I think
If only I had half a brain I know that this would stink

They took out all my brains today and put me in a box
I'm a mindless corporate minion who would never say it sucks
'Cause now I can go gambling and I can freely roam
The casino Trump erected after bulldozing my home

-bushman
01/29/2017

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 29, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/01/donald-trump-is-shocking-vulgar-and-right-213572
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jan 30, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

I do not like what this video says or if it has any relevance. But, this guy could go all the way. He is pulling people from every corner of the spectrum on one issue or another.
overwatch

climber
Jan 31, 2016 - 07:25am PT
Has anyone checked under his toupee for the mark?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 31, 2016 - 07:41am PT
Didn't it used to be the vicious scorpion?

.....

Truth is,

where far left liberals have left a vacuum

(due to their own self-righteous or ignorant denials, etc),

the far right have stepped in to fill it.

Now we all pay the price.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jan 31, 2016 - 11:18am PT
that statement is idiotic

Thanks, Dingus.

(1) I spoke of far left, not necessarily extreme; it seems to me there could be a difference.

(2) I read your post - looking for agreement actually - and from the narrow perspective you formulated it I don't necessarily disagree. So you got me there.

(3) My post was written mostly as a response to the afore-posted Viscious Snake video.

(4) I don't think you do (my) links but for the context of this post (if for no other sake than mine) here's a link to the so-called "regressive left" liberals - who insofar as their actions and attitudes don't create a vacuum (I said nothing about "balance") they create weakness on the Left that the right (Cruz to Trump) are all to eager to exploit. Just as we are seeing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_left

re: (1) multiculturalism (2) extreme tolerance (3) failure to distinguish criticism of ideas from bigotry (4) putting the brakes on free speech

That's all I got for now, have a good one.



"Its just opposite sides of the same as#@&%e."

Also, anywhere between the two sides of an as#@&%e is still an as#@&%e - so I'm not sure I can fully appreciate your metaphor. Butt in looking for where you're coming from, I can see what you're saying.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guIVYeCFP7M
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 31, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
Cosmic

666 is the sum of the first 36 natural numbers (in any order)

which should be an interesting exercise since the last I heard there were only about 26 letters in the alphabet

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jan 31, 2016 - 05:21pm PT
Roman numerals, in descending order DCLXVI = 666

In Hebrew, 666 and be interpreted as referring to Emperor Nero.



666 is also about how many times The Donald has filed frivolous lawsuits to irritate people, and flex his legal muscle


Donald Trump sued a different Trump family to prevent them from using their own name; claimed he owned the exclusive rights to "Trump"

trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jan 31, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
Honestly, I like him. Still plenty of time for me to change my mind. If I voted today it would be for Trump
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 31, 2016 - 06:04pm PT
trailridge127: Yeah - what's not to love about a misogynistic racist bully and 4 time bankrupt bully?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 31, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
Stew, why so much interest in an election that's not yours?
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jan 31, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
Definitely outspoken, but misogynist? The only events I know about are the Rosie O'Donnell fiasco and the Megan Kelly debate? It would be interesting see how many women he employees and of those women, how many are high profile/salary jobs.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jan 31, 2016 - 06:48pm PT


Stew, why so much interest in an election that's not yours?

Dick knows American's will be fleeing north if Trump wins.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 31, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
rick sumner: With respect, whether you like it or not, U.S. politics affects the entire world big time, and when you guys elect crooks and lunatics to the Oval Office, innocent people in other countries end up dead. Have you got the faintest idea how much the U.S. has fukked up pretty well the entire Middle East through the years?

For starters, when dubya Bush and his cabinet of crooks and murderers illegally destroyed the entire nation of Iraq, they sowed the seeds that grew into Daesh (aka ISIS).

That's why and, by the way, Daesh will be dancing in the streets if that scumbag Trump gets elected.

Edit:

Trailridge: Outspoken? Are you joking? outspoken? Trump is a raving lunatic. Ridiculing women who challenge his views by claiming that their periods are affecting their judgement is fairly considered to be a bullying and misogynistic comment.

Threatening to build a fence across the southern border of the U.S. to keep Mexicans out PLUS sticking them with the tab isn't just racist, but it could be fairly considered to be an act of war.

Can't you understand that the entire planet thinks that he's an aszhole - unless you count the mutual love affair between him and that other world-class bully by the name of Putin.

crankster: and regardless how much we would want to welcome your countrymen with such good taste in politics, it would be a tragic loss to your nation to lose so many of its best and brightest.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 31, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
Definitely outspoken, but misogynist? The only events I know about are the Rosie O'Donnell fiasco and the Megan Kelly debate? It would be interesting see how many women he employees and of those women, how many are high profile/salary jobs

L---?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 31, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
Oh, so your not the zenophobe crankcase describes, eh Stew?

As far as America fuking up the rest of the world,it's not a party thing. Look at LBJ and Vietnam Nam, look at Carter and his helping hand in the destruction of an orderly, internationally accepted Iran. Yes Bush, Clinton and then shrub royally fuked up Iraq which stood as the effective counterweight to the Ayatollah's that Jimmie created.

Don't be so disengenuous Stewie. Anybody can see through the b.s. you spew to the rotten core of your ideology.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Jan 31, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
rick sumner: It's spelled "xenophobe", and I don't have an ideology - I just don't like aszholes, particularly those who seek the leadership of world powers who abuse their own ideological agendas to kill people and line their own pockets.

If you knew squat about history, you'd have the ability to realize that the U.S. was directly responsible for screwing up Iran. It started when they installed the Shah as dictator, and he was every bit as brutal as the monsters who are currently running the place - there was a difference, though - when he wasn't busy murdering thousands of his own people, he was quite happy to steal everything of value that wasn't nailed down in the place, and use the leftovers to continue buying the support of the U.S. to keep him in power.

Perfectly justifiably, the Iranians rose in revolt against him, and he was deposed. Then, BIG mistake, the anti-Shah forces ceded power to the twisted, evil Ayatolla Khomeni. It was the last mistake most of them made, because they had no idea that they were trusting their destinies to a murderous religious fanatic. Thousands of these patriots were murdered at the hands of the religious police.

And now you have today's Iran, courtesy of the U.S.

Time for you to drop your own ideological blinders and go try to find some factual information.

The only dogma I believe in is the truth. You should try seeking it some time.
Norton

Social climber
Jan 31, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
Definitely outspoken, but misogynist? The only events I know about are the Rosie O'Donnell fiasco and the Megan Kelly debate?

then may I suggest that you have not made any effort to educate yourself on the
depth and sheer volume of Trump's very well documented views how he sees women

a half second google search turned up a seemingly endless list

like this one

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0131-mcmanus-trump-gender-gap-20160131-column.html

and this one

http://fortune.com/2015/08/09/trump-insult-women-history/
Jorroh

climber
Jan 31, 2016 - 09:08pm PT
Yeah, Ricks an utter moron ...but in fairness

"If you knew squat about history, you'd have the ability to realize that the U.S. was directly responsible for screwing up Iran."

...don't forget the UK ...the CIA didn't go it alone on that one ... in fact I think the oil assets that Mosaddegh was going to nationalize were primarily British.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 31, 2016 - 09:48pm PT
http://on.gallup.com/20zw1xh
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 31, 2016 - 10:07pm PT
Jorrah the CIA didn't even exist when the middle east was partitioned into bastardized nationalities after world War 1. Later, after the decline of the British Empire the u.s. inherited this mess and managed it under strongman leadership the best it could till that idiot bleeding heart Carter began an implosion that is continuing to this day. That shrub made the one of the most monumental errors of the 20th century with his destruction of Iraq is not in dispute. That dirty tricks and clandestine operations were employed is not in dispute. That the entire region devolves into tribal warfare of local and exported form without strong leadership should also not be in duspute. The region knew relatively long periods of stability and peace under the Ottoman Empire, though that can't be allowed to reform under the more radical, expansionist regimes seeking dominance now

Stewie knows nothing but the festering hatred of an ideology he doesn't even understand. For that matter, he probably doesn't even know why he hates so bitterly.

You might look inward, Stew, instead of attaching blame outward.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Feb 1, 2016 - 11:35am PT
Rick, we indeed helped f*#k up Iraq and Iran. The British and the French do deserve a big part of the blame, too boot.

As for Trump, he does want to bang his daughter.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Feb 1, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
Anyone who thinks the Middle East is messed up because of one political party from one nation clearly parses history for their own partisan mindset.
There is plenty of blame to go around, both before and after Bush's unfortunate war (which was bi-partisan anyhow).

None of this finger pointing address's a part of the world in which all human migration has passed through over the eons, the tribalism inherent in human nature, or the primitive medieval religious views of most of it's inhabitants.

I understand that the Ottoman empire and Muslim civilization of hundreds of years ago were more advanced than Europe.
How many Nobel prizes in the sciences have been awarded to those from that part of the world lately? This is not about intelligence, but about priorities of those cultures.

We should butt out and let Allah sort it out. WTF...that's what we did with the genocide in Rwanda.
I know it didn't make us proud, but we don't have the political capital to fix the rest of the world for the rest of this generation.


As for Trump, I wouldn't mind banging his daughter ;-)
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Feb 1, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
Anyone who thinks the Middle East is messed up because of one political party from one nation clearly parses history for their own partisan mindset.
There is plenty of blame to go around, both before and after Bush's unfortunate war (which was bi-partisan anyhow).

The problems in the ME go beyond Bush, but he made it worse. The Bush administration cooked the books and beat the war drum. Sure, some Dems went along and shame on them, but it was Bush's (or rather Cheney and Rumsfeld) war. If 5 supreme court justices had voted for Gore over Bush, the US would not have invaded Iraq. (Afghanistan, yes, Iraq, no).
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Feb 1, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
Sorry, Trump already called dibs on his daughter Ivanka.

[Click to View YouTube Video]







the US would not have invaded Iraq. (Afghanistan, yes, Iraq, no).

G.H.W. Bush and Cheney (as Sec. of Defense)were the ones to put the American military into Saudia Arabia in 1990, which was the primary grievance Osama bin Laden said he had against the United States.

If Gore had been properly declared the winner, OBL and Al Qaeada might not have attacked. If Gore had drawn down the forces in the Middle East, that would have further placated the jihadists.

With Cheney and another Bush in the White House, an attack was inevitable.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 1, 2016 - 03:54pm PT
Rick knows nothing but the festering hatred of an ideology he doesn't even understand. For that matter, he probably doesn't even know why he hates so bitterly.

You might look inward, rick, instead of attaching blame outward.

and by the way, your pretty much dead wrong on almost everything you post

like an opposite droid, hear a lie and think it's the truth
hear the truth and think it's a lie

if you knew what the actual truth was, you would be agreeing with Stewart
He is correct about everything her posts, and it has nothing to do with hate, or blame.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 1, 2016 - 04:03pm PT
You're a humorous guy Craig, but you need another hobby to add to your gardening so this political b.s. isn't consuming your shortening time on Earth. And by the way, get your self and kids out of that shet hole of LA. It will improve your mood and change perspective.

What's your calls in Iowa. Considering the good weather and the huge investments on time and money I think it favors The Donald and Bernie. What say you?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 1, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
rick sumner: Your credibility with me is shot - not just because of your cherry-picking of history, but mainly because of your ridiculous accusation of me having "ideological" blinders.

I repeat: I do not have an ideology. I have a mind of my own, and am perfectly comfortable pissing off "lefties" if I feel that is what the the occasion demands.

Stop using Fox news as a substitute for your brain.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 1, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
Why would either of us consider the other credible Stew? Now the subject was why you interject yourself into another countries politics with such virulent rhetoric? Trouble at home?

Anyway, any of you prognosticators have predictions?



Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 1, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 1, 2016 - 05:50pm PT

As for Trump, he does want to bang his daughter.

Well Gary, she is pregnant. Hmm
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Feb 1, 2016 - 05:53pm PT
when haven't they (elected crooks and lunatics to the Oval Office)?



Jimmy Carter, 1976.


trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 1, 2016 - 06:36pm PT
Pulling for Trump in Iowa...He is a natural leader and has resources to pull it off!!!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Feb 1, 2016 - 06:52pm PT
Jimmy Carter, 1976.

And we all know how well THAT turned out....... <eyeroll>
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 1, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
This post describes trump to a tee..


Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia

Jan 27, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
The "cluster B" personality disorders are notorious:

-Antisocial personality disorder
-Narcissistic personality disorder
-Borderline personality disorder

They are all closely related and share the same traits: a lack or morality, lack of conscience, lack of empathy, and an overpowering sense of entitlement. These people will lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, blame, and do whatever it takes to get benefit for themselves.

These people will destroy you, if you let them in. They are so manipulative that you will find yourself questioning your own self worth, and they will make you feel that everything is your fault, and everything that you do is wrong.

Often these people are intelligent and highly functional, so they are extremely talented in, and well-practiced at, the manipulation game. The manipulation will start out insidiously. If you don't get out quickly, then you could find yourself mired in an abusive relationship in which you're always trying harder and harder to earn their forgiveness, trying to "give" more and more to redeem your self worth. But you'll never be successful because the sociopath keeps moving the goal line.

Narcissists in particular are often very popular and love attention, so it is easy to be drawn into their web. But they leave in their wake many turbulent and destroyed relationships
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2758191/Narcissists-Covert-Narcissists-and-Sociopaths


Shall we ask Ivana Trump about him?
no, we can read the divorce court record deposition.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 1, 2016 - 06:59pm PT
Ex-Wife: Donald Trump Made Me Feel ‘Violated’ During Sex

Ivana Trump once accused the real-estate tycoon of ‘rape,’ although she later clarified: not in the ‘criminal sense.’

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/27/ex-wife-donald-trump-made-feel-violated-during-sex.html


Donald Trump introduced his presidential campaign to the world with a slur against Mexican immigrants, accusing them of being “rapists” and bringing crime into the country.


“I mean somebody’s doing it!… Who’s doing the raping?” Donald Trump said, when asked to defend his characterization.


It was an unfortunate turn of phrase for Trump—in more ways than one. Not only does the current frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination have a history of controversial remarks about sexual assault, but as it turns out, his ex-wife Ivana Trump once used “rape” to describe an incident between them in 1989. She later said she felt “violated” by the experience.

"Someone is doing the raping", yes
that is one thing you are right about
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Feb 1, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
Trump losing to Cruz by 4000 votes so far.

edit: Trump is a chump.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-republicans-iowa-caucuses-20160201-story.html
Texas Sen. Ted Cruz surprised national front-runner Donald Trump in the Iowa caucuses Monday, galvanizing evangelical Republicans with his arch-conservative message.

Cruz's victory in the first nominating contest over Trump, the reality star and real estate mogul who is leading in most national polls, broadens the fight for the Republican presidential nomination.

Trump remains the favorite but will now see his self-made image as persistent winner take a hit as the primary season shifts to New Hampshire as a three-way race.

The billionaire businessman barely edged out Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, who surged to a particularly strong third-place finish. That sets Rubio up as the chief establishment rival against the outsider campaigns of Trump and Cruz.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 1, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
so people in Iowa that vote republican are not that f*#ked in the head.

who knew?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 1, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
"who knew?"

Cosmic?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 1, 2016 - 10:43pm PT
Hey rick: You really don't get it - I already told you: whether you like it or not, the most powerful nation on the planet's politics affect the entire world. Just ask the Iraqis after dubya Bush and his Cabinet of thieves and war criminals destroyed their entire nation and killed over 100,000 civilians.

Besides, it looks like there's a chance your next Prez is going to be a Canadian. A total scumbag just like Trump, but a Canadian nevertheless. Now you can go away and see what Fox news wants you to "think".

Craig Fry: Love those cartoons.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 1, 2016 - 11:28pm PT
Yargle Bargle!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 2, 2016 - 10:33am PT
Upthread, someone wrote:
It would be interesting see how many women he employees and of those women, how many are high profile/salary jobs.

I don't know abut Trump's corporations, but it looks like he pays women less for the same jobs, and holds them back in comparison to men, in his presidential campaign(which is self-funded, so it's not that difficult to presume the behavior is relevant as well as relative)

From Maire Claire article at http://www.marieclaire.com/politics/a18386/ex-trump-staffer-says-his-campaign-is-sexist-women-are-paid-less-than-men/
According to the Times, Davidson was paid $2,000 a month and was classified as part-time because she also worked as a paralegal. But she said another campaign worker, a man named Marc Elcock, was paid more than her for the same job even though he also has a day job as a lawyer. Public filings revealed that several men with the same title as Davidson—including Elcock—were indeed paid between $3,500 and $4,000 a month.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 2, 2016 - 10:50am PT
So can we say goodbye to Trumpty Dumpty now?

No, he's still the front runner, if slightly less so than yesterday.

Carson got 9%, but seems stuck. If he bails soon, Cruz seems like a natural home for Carson voters.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 3, 2016 - 11:02am PT
So now Donald is complaining that Cruz cheated him out of a victory in Iowa, and that there should be a do-over.

I dunno, I don't think "sore loser" is consistent with his self-trumpeted winning aura. Maybe he should zip it?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 3, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
Blessed be the peacemaker. MSNBC reports Trump nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

On his first day in office I hope he throws out of the country the illegals, the radical muslims (by some accounts a large percentage) along with the rabble rousers in the progressive, socialist, LGBT, etc. Etc. communities.

Stewart would welcome them all to his community and personal home in canuckistan.

Vote Bernie if you're deluded, Cruz if you are sane.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 3, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
Again, Rick, you omit glue sniffers and sheep fookers from your list.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 3, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
Forgive my lack of inclusiveness.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 3, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
rick: we'd be scraping beneath the bottom of the barrel before we accepted you as a competent judge of sanity.

So what does Fox news want you to think next?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Feb 3, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
Where's Pyro?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 3, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
Getting the stitches removed from his lobotomy scar.
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
Feb 3, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
It seems that the mainstream media, who is so obviously anti-Donald, is beginning to get a clue. They are starting to ignore Trump, instead of giving him all this free advertising. It doesn't matter if it is negative attention or positive, it is still giving the class clown all the attention he needs to keep his pole numbers up.

We'll see if they can resist, but, so far, Trump has been playing the media like a violin . . .
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 3, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
somethingurnot: Thanks for that valuable contribution to this thread, which as I'm sure you're aware, is about that loathsome scumbag Donald Trump.

I notice that the photo you've posted has "Sports Illustrated" marked upon it. If I was the photographer who took that picture, I might just be speaking to my lawyer about having a little chat with you about copyright infringement.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Feb 3, 2016 - 09:18pm PT
Stewart, you are very close to contracting "Craig Fry Disease." All of us on ST who are saddened that Craig has lost his battle are pulling for you. But our good wishes are not going to be enough by themselves. If you want to come through this with your mind intact, you have to do your part, too.

So go dig out the old climbing gear from the basement, drive down to the ferry terminal, and get your ass to Squamish. Or Powell River. Or somewhere you can be reminded that there is more to life than politard spewing on Supertopo.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 3, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
Because trumpstick meltdown begins in 3....4........2.........................1
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 3, 2016 - 09:58pm PT
Here's what showed up @ my email in-basket a little while ago from another Supertopo member. Verbatim:

u suck ass

sent by somethingurnot

Evidently, the above message was sent by a life form gifted withe intellect of half a rat's brain floating in a saucer of brine.

Ghost: Apparently, you don't realize that this thread is about politics. Go away.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 4, 2016 - 09:10am PT
Yeah Stewart, you might show some empathy for the state of our fellow humans like that Craig loser

That would be so sad, you're supposed to show how big of a macho idiot you are by dissing the truth tellers with an endless supply of snark

Never debate, just come on now and then and call everyone stoopid,
bitch and moan, froth about what some libtard said
That's how it's Supposed to work

That Craig loser is so gone, we chased him off with our relentless hate
Us Right Wingers win again....
Go Trump
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 4, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
Hi Craig: I certainly haven't noticed any amazing untruths in any of your posts, so keep up the good work. It's reassuring to know that there are well-informed voters in the U.S. like you and many others who post here who are deeply concerned about the implications of the election of racist bully plutocrats to the White House.

somethingurnot - or maybe I should just call you Ryan Mattock: here's a few tips that may help you grow up enough to eventually become welcome in the company of adults:

 don't send private emails to other people with insults that wouldn't tax the creative intelligence of a pre-schooler. Don't do it at all, as a matter of fact - there's something kinda chickenshit and creepy about this kind of infantile behaviour.

 there's no need to post photos of women in bikinis on political threads. For those of us who wish to gawk at these images, we can easily locate them elsewhere. Besides, none of those women would touch a pathetic little boy like you with a stick - even if they were wearing gloves.

 try to learn enough about the world around you so that you can one day become capable of expressing yourself in a coherent manner.

You're welcome.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Feb 4, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
there's no need to post photos of women in bikinis on political threads.

Now, let's not be hasty, Stewart.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 4, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
Gary: I've got nothing against women in bikinis and, as I mentioned earlier, they're not very difficult to locate elsewhere.

It just amazes me that anyone figures that they've got any relevance to the poster's opinions on the candidacy of Trump for the presidency of the U.S.
couchmaster

climber
Feb 5, 2016 - 09:16am PT


Lovin this: for Pyro: http://www.trumpdonald.org/

Hint, click on the trumpet.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 5, 2016 - 10:55am PT
I got my "Make America great again" hat in the mail today. I am pretty excited about the election. I think Trump will pull through!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 5, 2016 - 11:08am PT
It's funny that Trump is so popular with rednecks, who think he'll bring jobs to America.

Does Trump even have a domestic policy agenda? I mean, right off the bat, he's sending our jobs to Mexico. Nobody seems to get this, as in when he says he's going to build a wall across the border between Mexico and the US, and have Mexico pay for it.

What, you think that's gonna happen with US workers getting paid in pesos?

Get a clue...
Norton

Social climber
Feb 5, 2016 - 11:26am PT
We'll see if they can resist, but, so far, Trump has been playing the media like a violin . . .

true, he has

but so has the media played him all the way to record ratings and fat advertising profits
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Feb 5, 2016 - 11:26am PT
Pyro, you're a pussy.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 5, 2016 - 11:29am PT
Does Trump even have a domestic policy agenda? I mean, right off the bat, he's sending our jobs to Mexico. Nobody seems to get this, as in when he says he's going to build a wall across the border between Mexico and the US, and have Mexico pay for it.

Nope, not that I've seen. It sounds good, though, a white guy is saying it (i.e., not Obama), and that's what matters.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Feb 5, 2016 - 11:41am PT
Trump has a terrific domestic jobs policy and he's going to make China pay for it.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 5, 2016 - 11:47am PT
Wow, stereotyping Trump supporters as Rednecks, impressive. Calling pyro a pussy. You guys need to let go of all your hate.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Feb 5, 2016 - 11:52am PT
No, Pyro's scared to post as himself. I'm calling him out.

Go Trump!
dirtbag

climber
Feb 5, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
Wow, stereotyping Trump supporters as Rednecks, impressive.

Truth hurts.


trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 5, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
Ignorance and blind hatred. Many great men and women have worked extremely hard and given their lifes to fix the bigotry and stereotypes that plaque our nation. You embrace it. So I guess you are right truth hurts.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 5, 2016 - 02:01pm PT
trailridge 127: Are you nuts? Trump's ENTIRE candidacy is based on hatred. Oh, sorry only most of it - the rest is based on greed.

That sewer rat in a business suit has never uttered a kind word to anyone in his entire spiteful existence.

Get a grip.

dirtbag

climber
Feb 5, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
Ignorance and blind hatred. Many great men and women have worked extremely hard and given their lifes to fix the bigotry and stereotypes that plaque our nation.

Trump wants to ban and register Muslims; routinely degrades women; thinks Mexicans are rapists; mocked a disabled journalist; and has made countless other cheap and hateful shots at minority groups. He's Biff, the consummate bully, with a megaphone and an audience.

Yes, he's a bigot and a fascist, and a magnet for hater, racists and xenophobes. He's catering to our darkest fears and worst impulses under the pretense of acting as a strongman (even though he was a draft dodger) and that he will make America great again (whatever that means); all the while,laughing at his supporters who he seems to think are moronic. He's a troll with a shot at gaining power. If you support him then, well, birds of a feather and all that.

So I'm not going to mince words. I don't like him, his ideas, and think he is a true brute. I wish he'd stfu and go away.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 5, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
Wow, stereotyping Trump supporters as Rednecks, impressive.

I didn't stereotype Trump supporters as rednecks.
I said: It's funny that Trump is so popular with rednecks, ...

Are you a redneck? If so, the shoe fits. If not, it doesn't.
So take a chill pill, and keep the stereotyping to yourself.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Feb 9, 2016 - 12:00am PT
The refugee question: Trump should be forced to watch the documentary Last Days Of Vietnam, and the lengths we went to, to try and get people out of Saigon.
Enlisted sailors bought everything they could out of the ships BX to give to refugees, people they had never met, huddled on the deck.
Different war, yes, but Americans helping refugees none the less.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Feb 9, 2016 - 07:23am PT
Are you a redneck?

I am. Ouch! was a big time redneck. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Ouch! would not have been a Trump supporter.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 9, 2016 - 08:11am PT
Someone say rednecks?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/05/politics/donald-trump-white-supremacists-new-hampshire/index.html
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 9, 2016 - 08:52am PT
I miss Ouch!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 9, 2016 - 08:53am PT
Yeah :-(
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 9, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
Yes, go Trump. We Dem's are rooting for him. Nothing would lead to the destruction of the GOP faster.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 9, 2016 - 05:23pm PT
"YES!!!

Go Trump"

A score for misogyny, hatred, and xenophobia!

Go Christian values!
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 9, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
Well done New Hampshire. Hopefully the rest of the nation will follow!
Go Trump!
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 9, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
Heads will roll, and worse. I can see it now; the weekly "you're fired" sessions live from the Oval office.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Feb 9, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
The LIBTARDS aren't the only ones worried about Trump winning.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 9, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Cosmic, I would welcome Trump on primarily comedic grounds.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Feb 9, 2016 - 05:41pm PT
Forgoing all Symbolism

My donkeys a republican
My pachyderm's a democrat
I explained to them the difference
What was what and that was that

My donkey said conservatives
Don't waste our money getting fat
My elephant just glared at him
And on the donkey squarely sat

Yes my pachyderm's a liberal
And I'll be sure to not forget
After burying my donkey
I'll be voting for a Democrat

-bushman
02/09/2016
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 9, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
If you right wingnutz aren't crazy about Hillary, that's understandable.

But if you think Trump is an appropriate alternative, you are truly f*#ked in the head.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 9, 2016 - 05:49pm PT
^^^^This.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 9, 2016 - 05:49pm PT
A lot of people I know here in Colorado are tempted to support Trump. Mostly independents and almost all of them voted for Obama twice. It is a fascinating twist of perspective.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 9, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
T Hocking: How sad that you actually think that way.

Whether you like it or not, politics affects pretty well everything in your life from the food you eat, the music you listen to and so on.

Even if and where you can go climbing.

You shouldn't be proud of your apathy. Not so long ago, you would be in the armed forces and possibly in the middle of a shooting war whether you liked it or not - unless your folks could afford to buy you a deferment.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 9, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
Ha. Pretty clever..Joker face. Wasn't there obama/joker face a couple years ago. Most people thought it was distasteful, a couple years later it is funny. Full circle
Norton

Social climber
Feb 9, 2016 - 07:58pm PT

IF LYING is so important of reason not to vote for someone, then why do you support voting for Donald Trump.

Mr. Trump is a HUGE LIAR, have you spend one second looking up his LIES?

Tell me why you support and would vote for him then?

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/11/24/Donald-Trump-s-8-Most-Recent-Blatant-Lies

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/2015-biggest-lies_us_56787039e4b014efe0d66a79

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/11/catalog-donald-trumps-divorce-reality

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/11/23/donald-trump-is-constantly-lying/
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 9, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
why bother, Norton? just refer to apogee's latest comment and be done with it. he's spot on.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 9, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
James Brennan: Why don't you grow up? There's plenty of psychiatrists in the Yellow Pages who could help you learn to behave like an adult.

It's a pity that you weren't man enough to apologize for assaulting me with that last slanderous assault, or even to admit that you were demonstrably incompetent to discuss labour law.

Your credibility is non-existent, and you bore me.

EDIT:

T. Hocking: What made me believe that you weren't planning to vote was the misleading nature of your post.

Nevertheless, I'll apologize.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 9, 2016 - 09:31pm PT
If you right wingnutz aren't crazy about Hillary, that's understandable.

But if you think Trump is an appropriate alternative, you are truly f*#ked in the head.


Apogee YOU numb NUTZZ.. Enjoy the Show!!!!



Brandon-

Come over to STONEY POINT i'll buy you a BEER!
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 9, 2016 - 10:13pm PT
pyro: I've actually checked - you have NEVER posted a comment that couldn't have been posted by a particularly slow eight year old pustule.

Congratulations for selflessly contributing your atrophied brain to the world's defective gene pool.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 9, 2016 - 10:14pm PT
Yeah, I get what you're saying, pyro. If it wasn't real, it would actually be pretty goddam funny.

Except for the fact that there's a bunch of you who actually fall in line with Trump's hateful blather, and Trump's prospects are 100% real. That's the truly disturbing part.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 10, 2016 - 06:24am PT
Congratulations for selflessly contributing your atrophied brain to the world's defective gene pool.
Stewart you are starting sound like Trump, maybe you guys have more in common than you thought
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 10, 2016 - 10:18am PT
Cosmic - Which of Trump's campaign platforms have gotten you so solid in your support?

I am trying to understand why people are backing him, but I just haven't been able to get past his obnoxious behavior. I think the one that broke this camel's back was when he mimicked the hand gestures of that reporter who has a disease which h=makes it difficult for him to coordinate his hand motions. And then he lied and said he had not idea what the man looked like or any issues he had, and that he was displaying what he thought a "flustered reporter" would look like.


Here is a story, for those who may not recall: http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-appears-to-be-mocking-the-physical-condition-of-a-reporter-during-a-south-carolina-rally-2015-11
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 10, 2016 - 10:22am PT
Trump manifests the white male's yearning for the days when they could express their racism, misogyny and xenophobia openly and with abandon.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 10, 2016 - 10:29am PT
//Full Definition of bigot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance//

I see the appeal of trump as someone who is antiestablishment, who is possibly self financed and not beholden to special interest, who doesn't have the typical politicians filter. But the guy is a bigot and likely has narcissistic personality disorder. Identifying yourself as a trump supporter lumps you in with him. If you are fine with that so be it, but I'd never wanted to be associated with those attitudes. Doesn't mean I wouldn't be friends or climb with a supporter but it would definitely make me question their judgement.

It's interesting to see the rise of Kasich. Seems like the current Romney. The remaining guy left when the more ridiculous choices are weeded out.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 10, 2016 - 11:53am PT
Fet, I would probably (gulp!) prefer Bush over Kasich,

Anyway...fet you nail it about Trump.

Here is another reminder of why a Trump presidency would be terrifying. He doesn't really state anything new that hasn't already been stated here, but it is worth repeating.

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/10/10956978/donald-trump-terrifying
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 10, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
Does Trump have a platform other than megalomania and xenophobia? I await his proposals on things that really matter to promote the general welfare to to insure the blessing of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, and I see nothing of substance. The most successful transformative presidencies of my lifetime - Johnson, Reagan, Clinton - had basic principles guiding their direction. Trump's is little more than "Trust me - I'm smart." I don't trust him, because he isn't as smart as he thinks he is.

Where does he want the United States to go? Is he like King Knute, ordering the tide to stop ebbing and flowing, or does he want to see us move in a direction likely to improve the general welfare? If so, what is that direction, and how does it make us better?

If I read the polling data correctly, Trump appeals to several disparate groups: (1) (obviously) xenophobes; (2) those fed up with identity politics, and the sanitized language it currently engenders; and (3) those who see the government functioning solely for narrowly special interests, but not just "the 1%." The last group would include just about anyone other than Sandersnistas who sees the government favoring some other group over themselves, for example, West Virginia coal miners who see the government favoring environmentalists (as opposed to the environment) over their employment.

Not surprisingly, he's done very little to tell those people what, exactly, he is going to do to help them, except that he will take action against people who can't vote (i.e. aliens and foreign trading partners). Meanwhile, the press (there's that villain again) gives him lots of air time without pinning him down on policy.

John
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 10, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
Trump has numerous substantive policies:

Make America Great Again by giving rich people huge tax cuts.

Make American Great Again by building The Wall, decreasing legal immigration, criminalizing illegal immigration and making it harder to seek asylum in the US.

Make American Great Again by declaring China a currency manipulator and then deter it's theft of intellectual property by deploying the navy to the South China Sea (presumably threatening war?)

Make American Great Again by allowing everyone to concealed carry and for the military to carry weapons on base.

Make American Great Again by improving the VA.

Pretty much all of his pans rely heavily on "waste, fraud and abuse" elimination.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 10, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
Not surprisingly, he's done very little to tell those people what, exactly, he is going to do to help them, except that he will take action against people who can't vote (i.e. aliens and foreign trading partners). Meanwhile, the press (there's that villain again) gives him lots of air time without pinning him down on policy.

They haven't, and it's long past time to quit giving him a pass. They have been quick to call out his insults, which are easy targets, but now that he is a front runner his policies have to scrutinized closely.

The other candidates have failed to do this, too. Maybe Christie could do it, now that he won't be running a campaign?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 10, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
Cosmic, you have a right to vote for whomever you want.

Yeah, I'm still up for it but I'm hitting the snow pretty heavy right now. Come spring, let's work something out. All I'm climbing now is plastic, although the granite looks pretty warm up on Donner Summit right now.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 10, 2016 - 04:16pm PT
James Brennan: Too damn bad that you're too dumb to have read about the Rand Formula, which dates back to 1946, but please don't keep boring our U.S.sisters and brothers to death with your juvenile interpretation of Canadian labour legislation.

Also, nice to see that you're still not man enough to apologize for that avalanche of slander you unleashed upon me about my behaviour during a labour disruption you clearly knew nothing about

Gee... maybe you can start a riveting thread about Canadian labour law and see how many people show up.

Idiot.

Now would you please get back to topic of this thread and try to say something intelligent (as in not your habitual cut and paste job of other people's thoughts) about this for a change?

EDIT:

trailridge127: Yeah - you got me. I'm trying to get elected President of the U.S. so that I can deport that twisted little prick, build a wall around him and stick him with the tab. Devastating logic.

Norton

Social climber
Feb 10, 2016 - 04:26pm PT

Happiegrlll2 asks Cosmic

Cosmic - Which of Trump's campaign platforms have gotten you so solid in your support?

I am trying to understand why people are backing him, but I just haven't been able to get past his obnoxious behavior. I think the one that broke this camel's back was when he mimicked the hand gestures of that reporter who has a disease which h=makes it difficult for him to coordinate his hand motions. And then he lied and said he had not idea what the man looked like or any issues he had, and that he was displaying what he thought a "flustered reporter" would look like.


Yes, like Happiegrrl2 I too would like to read Cosmic's reasoning for supporting Trump

Cosmic?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2016 - 04:48pm PT
Cosmic's position is pretty much like every other Trump supporter's position.

They think of him as anti-establishment, and like that he says things other candidates won't say.

Nevermind the fact that most of what he says is filled with hate, xenophobia, misogyny, and all other things that would make Jesus vomit all over Cosmic's tie-dye shirt.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 10, 2016 - 05:07pm PT
He'd be by far the crassest nominee/president ever, truly an embarrassment.
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Feb 10, 2016 - 05:16pm PT
NATURAL BORN LEADER!!!#$#@$
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 10, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
He'd be by far the crassest nominee/president ever

Haha I read that as creepiest and I was thinking, I don't know Cruz may have him beat.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 10, 2016 - 06:37pm PT
James Brennan: I haven't the least interest in ever seeing you again under any circumstances, especially since your fantasy world lacks the capacity to accept factual responses to your delusional assertions.

And gee, that comment about Trump was deeply insightful.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Feb 10, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
Did The Donald really, truly, expect this to last this long???? I still can't believe he actually believes the sh#t he's saying; this MUST be a prank with the author soon to reveal his joke. Please.

Trump is a master showman, ranking right up there with P. T. Barnum. Yes, a sucker IS born every minute.

I'm still predicting Romney for the run.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 10, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
Some of the same judgmental Canadians drove off one of the ST "Hall of Famers"
Mighty Hiker

We all miss him and may have some bitterness that he was harassed by his own Countrymen
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 10, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 10, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
gotta luv this red vs red violence....

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 10, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

I can't stand Trump, Cruz, or Rubio.
or any other of the republican candidates
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
So you'll vote for a hate-filled misogynist xenophobic instead?

WWJD, Cosmic?
Norton

Social climber
Feb 10, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
2 main reasons I'm for Trump, Cruz, or Rubio.

Cosmic, so you really can't say anything strong FOR those there guys

and but instead say you will vote for them anyway

what I don't understand, Cosmic, seriously, is how you have said that the character of the candidate is important to you, yet you would vote FOR known liars

all three of the people you for vote for are big, big time liars

I have posts many links, lists of their lies throughout this campaign, and you are very internet savvy, you know how to google their many lies

so why would you vote for men of such low character, such liars?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 10, 2016 - 09:06pm PT
Jesus preached a message that concerned salvation, love, and care for the poor and those in need. He'd definteatly vote Bernie given these choices.

But of course many American Christians are bigots and are really at odds with wwjd.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Feb 10, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
Moosedrool! Re your comment:
As I watch Trump's performance in front of the crowds, I get the impression he is laughing how naive these people are. Even when he is mocking them, and they still love him.

Please remember, that Trump considers himself, a salesman.

Salespeople, if strongly motivated, can ignore their morals, background, training, politics, & religion to sell something that is important to them.

I think Trump has done a helavu job of selling what was once a liberal Trump,to the conservatives, religious right, & bigots, of America.

The question in my mind is:

Will Trump let his current bigoted & inflammatory spew direct his future goals, if he gets elected, or will he revert to a more liberal Trump?

I don't believe any liberals are worrying about that, but I do think a lot of the few remaining deep thinkers on the far right of the Republican party, are concerned about Trump's commitment to their (hopefully futile) crusade to turn America into a right-wing, bigoted, Christian Theocracy.

So-----the question is: If Trump is the Republican candidate for President, will the conservative Christians all support him?

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 10, 2016 - 09:11pm PT
The Fet writes:

"Jesus preached a message that concerned salvation, love, and care for the poor and those in need. He'd definteatly vote Bernie given these choices."


Jesus had contempt for tax collectors. Didn't like them at all.

How Sanders socialism would work without tax collectors is something you can't explain.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Feb 10, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
That's a real conundrum...What would the easter bunny do if Santa's elves went on strike..?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 10, 2016 - 09:18pm PT

Trump manifests the white male's yearning for the days when they could express their racism, misogyny and xenophobia openly and with abandon.

+1

His supporters harken for the days when they could call gays, fags or queers, blacks could be called niggers, and Mexicans could be called wetbacks
sheepdog

Trad climber
just over the hill
Feb 10, 2016 - 09:20pm PT
Hey TT, loved the video, wonder if those kids will grow up and post on the Taco (or not grow up and post on the Taco...)

Viewing this election from afar, it's been fascinating to watch. Here's a talk given by Chris Matthews (the MSNBC guy) to the "Washington Ideas Forum" on the basis for the "throw the bums out" feeling that is manifest this election cycle. He restricts his comments to the Republican side, but they date from August before Bernie started his recent rise.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 10, 2016 - 09:32pm PT
"He wouldn't vote for Hillary or Bernie..."

And you think He'd vote for Trump, just to spite the both of them?
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Feb 11, 2016 - 08:11am PT
For a slightly different point of view

[Click to View YouTube Video]
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 11, 2016 - 08:23am PT
I hope you can thank us progressive yankee's for pushing the pendulum way left ,so as to bring it more to the center .


Democracy can hurt,the pain must be spread , Evenly.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 11, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
Jesus preached a message that concerned salvation, love, and care for the poor and those in need. He'd definteatly vote Bernie given these choices.

But of course many American Christians are bigots and are really at odds with wwjd.
Jesus had contempt for tax collectors. Didn't like them at all.

Seeing Christians ask WWJD always saddens me, because that question ignores the fundamental tenet of Christianity, viz. Jesus is God who came to redeem the world from sin. Jesus would do what God would do. We aren't God.

Non-Christians rightly throw that in our faces because we follow Christ only imperfectly. That said, I take issue with both statements above as follows:

1. Jesus (and the entire Old Testament) absolutely cared for the poor and helpless. He also, however, severely condemned those who laid the burden on others, rather than also on themselves. Bernie's message can be oversimplified (but not that oversimplified) to everything for free, and you'll just pay a little more because the 1% will be the ones really paying for everything. Aside from being untrue, because the 1% don't make enough money to pay for everything Bernie advocates that the government give away, it's also refusing to shoulder loads equally.

Also, Jesus never advocated forcing economic outcomes through compulsion. When someone approached Him to ask that He compel his brother to divide the inheritance with him, Jesus said "Man, who made me a judge. . ." When the crowds in the wilderness were far from civilization, and in need of food, he told His disciples "You give them something to eat," not "Make the rich give them something to eat."

It is true that the earliest Christians (at least in Jerusalem) held all things in common, forming a true Fabian Socialist society, but there is a big moral difference between joining a voluntary association where this is done, and advocating a law that says someone else should pay a lot more so I can pay less.

2. Jesus loved tax collectors (see, e.g., the encounters of Jesus with Matthew and Zaccheas.) The latter is one of my Biblical heroes, because he was too short to see Jesus above the crowd, so he climbed a tree to get a view. He may be history's first recorded short climber. Jesus hated sin, included dishonesty by tax collectors, but he loved sinners. Moreover, he instructed us to pay our taxes ("Render unto Caesar. . .")

Ultimately, though, Jesus would not concern His time on earth with the political process, except to love all who were involved, even as He condemned their sin. His Kingdom is not of this world. Perhaps Judas Iscariot's disappointment with that fact led to his betrayal. In any case, I always find it blasphemous to say that the United States was, is, or will be a Christian nation. Only one Christian nation exists, and it's the fellowship of all believers. None of Ted Cruz, Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, and any of the other candidates who claim to be people of faith have any true leadership role in that Kingdom.

John
dirtbag

climber
Feb 11, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
Here's a new four Pinocchio lie for ya: trump's claim that his border wall would cost 8 billion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/02/11/trumps-dubious-claim-that-his-border-wall-would-cost-8-billion/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_factchecker-trumpwall-330pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

That's right, Donald fans: your straight talking, truth speaking, non-pc guru thinks you're stupid enough to believe his bullsh#t. Oh yeah, Mexico is supposed to pay for it. LOL.


Psst...wanna buy a bridge?
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 11, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
Could be a dominating force in politics! The democrats would have difficult time competing against them. 2016 Dream Team. Donald Trump and VP Ben Carson
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/02/09/ben-carson-donald-trump-vp/
dirtbag

climber
Feb 11, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
Oh yeah, Carson is formidable, lol...
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 11, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
Really? Not even a little nervous that they could end up in the Whitehouse. That could be a big gamble on Hillary and all her baggage.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 11, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
"Baggage? ". Nooooooo...trump and Carson don't have any baggage.

Lol again!

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 11, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
LMAO, Screidc!

+1, that Daily Show skit was the Bomb!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 11, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
I heard that the website Funny or Die is doing a shortish film where Johnny Depp plays Trump.

http://www.npr.org/2016/02/11/466446200/johnny-depp-stars-as-donald-trump-yep-you-read-that-right
Norton

Social climber
Feb 11, 2016 - 04:37pm PT

The laws of physics and nature have never, ever, bent bent even a tiny bit.

No "miracle" directed or commanded by an Etherial Spirit has ever happened.

It is 2015, we no longer need to live our lives in confused terror, we no longer need
to bury a newborn upside by the door because the local spiritual leader said we should do so in order to insure that lightning will not destroy this year's crops.

We no longer need to enslave, rape, and murder other humans because it says
so in an ancient text written by scared and largely ignorant sheep herder in the middle east and then proclaimed to be the "word of god"

just allowing a little bit of Equal Time for those who don't buy the god stuff.......
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 11, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
Jim,
isn't "a squelching mollusc" one of the dishes at the sushifest?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 11, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
James Brennan: I' never claimed to be infallible - as a matter of fact, I have tried to make a point of apologizing for my mistakes, especially for errors of fact.

It's a pity that you aren't adult enough to make an effort to atone for your latest unprovoked, clearly uninformed, protracted and vicious attack against me.

I certainly don't expect rational behaviour from you towards me in the future, so I'll do my best to ignore you.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 11, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-hillary-clinton_us_567804d7e4b014efe0d5f12c?section=politics
zBrown

Ice climber
Feb 11, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
Let's make the Americas great once again.


pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 11, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
so I'll do my best to ignore you
please go away you WART the Stewart
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 11, 2016 - 09:23pm PT
pyro: Have you even hit puberty yet? Were you home schooled by a dung beetle?
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 12, 2016 - 06:09am PT
That's actually pretty good. Do you have one of Hillary?...oh wait if Bill taught us one thing its that not even he wants to see her nude.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 12, 2016 - 07:01am PT
It is 2015, we no longer need to ...


Pssst, Norton. Wake up, it's Feb., 2016...
zBrown

Ice climber
Feb 12, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
Trump threatens to sue Cruz for 'not being a natural born citizen'

The suit has already been filed thanks to Texan Newton Boris Schwartz, Sr.

Is another one necessary or just more publicity for the Trumpet.


This link allows you to read the complaint.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cruz-lawsuit-birth-challenge
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 12, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
zBrown, it's not like anybody in the Americas was running all over the African continent with big butterfly nets scooping up darkies to enslave them. The Africans have been enslaving each other for thousands of years, and the Europeans were johnny-come-lately as a fresh market for the supply.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2016 - 03:53pm PT
Damn that dude has a small willy. Maybe Trump won't be able to perform after all?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 12, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 12, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
Saying Donald Trump is the Greatest Show on Earth is an insult to many circus folks...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Feb 12, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
zBrown, it's not like anybody in the Americas was running all over the African continent with big butterfly nets scooping up darkies to enslave them. The Africans have been enslaving each other for thousands of years, and the Europeans were johnny-come-lately as a fresh market for the supply.

But, Mom, all the other kids were doing it, too!
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 12, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
I understand that Trump's latest foreign policy fantasy is that he's going to make China stop North Korea's nuclear weapons program.

I don't think this ridiculous plan would be likely to elicit a favourable response from the Chinese, and is an even more dangerous idea than the one he has about getting Mexico to pay for a U.S. version of the Berlin Wall.

Does anyone in possession of a rational brain support this blustering bully?
zBrown

Ice climber
Feb 12, 2016 - 09:06pm PT
The real question is just when was America great, but ...

I wonder what would happen if someone ran all over Africa with big butterfly nets and scooped up a boatload or two of nigras, but they couldn't find anybody to sell them to.


Cash on the barrel head, eh?


trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 12, 2016 - 09:06pm PT
Ultimately, economics has power and influence. China is North Koreas lifeline. Coincidentally they are in a tough time right now. Sanctions make a bad situation worse. Ask Iran. The golden question is how long will North Korea stand with their backs against the wall and their people starving untill they do something desperate and devastating? Maybe Obama could go there with his noble prize and sing comb by ah. Tell them everything is going to be ok. Ha. There is decades worth of hatred towards America there. China is the only option. And they need America more than they need North Korea. So maybe trump is right.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 12, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
How the f*#k would trump make China do anything?
Wave a wand?

He's lying to you and himself: he can't make China do sh#t.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 12, 2016 - 09:28pm PT
Well like it or not the US has influence, there are positive incentives that economically will benefit the Chinese, especially when they are (potentially) on the brink of a major economic disaster. Do you think North Korea will help them more than the US
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 12, 2016 - 09:38pm PT
You never hear about creating more peace with Russia, but ultimately creating more of an alliance with Russia will alienate China more and make them do what we want with North Korea. Trump has extended the olive brach to Russia. Everyone thinks Trump is an idiot, which he clearly has been more successful than critics could have possibly imagined. Even if you hate him and consider him your enemy. A wise man should never underestimate their enemy.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 12, 2016 - 10:12pm PT
trailridge127: Do you seriously think that an alliance with a murderous ex-KGB thug like Putin is an intelligent thing for the U.S. to even consider?

dirtbag is absolutely right - Trump wasn't talking about the U.S. using diplomacy to urge N. Korea to abandon its nuclear program - he was saying that he would compel China to do so. It is certainly not in China's strategic interest to have an ICBM-equipped N.Korea next door but it would be a moronic act for the U.S. to order China around these days. The Chinese could do some catastrophic economic damage to the U.S., especially since that's where a huge number of U.S. jobs have been sent since the beginning of the reign of the 1%ers.

Your analysis is deeply flawed, to put it mildly.

Also, don't forget that your hero bankrupted himself 4 times, and I would consider the use of the term "wise man" and Donald Trump in the same sentence to be an oxymoron - with the emphasis on moron.

EDIT:

PotatoHead: Would you kindly explain that picture for us?
zBrown

Ice climber
Feb 12, 2016 - 10:57pm PT
I have communicated with Mr. Obama (or his stand in) via email and unfortunately he does not subscribe to the ST Forum. (also Trump, Cruz and Hillary).


If only it were a little bit easier to reach these idiots we'd have it all ironed out in no time.

I wonder if we could reach someone in North Korea.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 12, 2016 - 11:13pm PT
But, Mom, all the other kids were doing it, too!

Nah. More like: "Y'all been doin' it to yo'selfs." Always have been.

Still are.

Even here, too many of 'em jes cain't get 'nuff o stil jackin' n killen' n mo.

In the Walmart parking lot just the other day, a woman was trying to get her about 12yo son out of the back of her car. He didn't want to get out, and she was getting more and more angry. Finally, she unleashed on him with this: "Git outta dah cahh, little nigger! Git OUT NOW, nigger, befo I whup yo sorry black ass!"

And I thought, "Wow! NOBODY I know imposed anything on you to make you think like that or talk like that to one of your OWN. What chance does the 'little nigger' have when YOU keep the next generation in the gutter like that? How is he going to perceive himself as he grows up when YOU demean him in verbiage DESIGNED to keep him thinking all ghetto and racist? YOU are making the next generation of racists, not me or anybody I know of."

I am NOT like some of you that fall all over yourself to LIVE with head hung low, singling out yourself and everybody else in your generation for special condemnation over things that WE didn't do! WE have done everything in our power to give a helping hand, but the "git outta dah cahh, little nigger" mindset still PREVAILS, and NOBODY I know is keeping them in that mindset. Instead, virtually everybody in this nation treats them with kid-gloves, while they treat THEMSELVES like trash.

Not one nation on Earth has been perfect, but slavery has been a FACT of life globally as long as there's been recorded history, and there has always been a market for it. Still is. WE are not there anymore.

THEY had wars, captured themselves, and sold themselves into slavery. I'm sorry for that, but I had nothing to do with it.

And in small proportion the woman calling her own son "little nigger" IS selling him right back into slavery. I'm really sorry for that, but I had nothing to do with that either.

There's a HUGE proportion of Americans today that are TIRED of paying and paying for something WE didn't do! We owe the gansta-rap, hip-hop, BLM-while-blacks-are-the-real-killers-of-blacks, entitlement crowd NOTHING at this point. My advice to them now is: Quit killing yourselves and keeping yourselves enslaved, and you'll quickly find that America is BY FAR the best place on this planet for you to really make it! MANY of you have. NOBODY is keeping you down anymore.

Trump's a buffoon. But he's not wrong about a groundswell of "fed up" or outright anger about the endless shaming and paying for something WE didn't do and don't want any part of.

The pendulum is-a swingen'.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Feb 12, 2016 - 11:35pm PT
Trump is not stupid. He is extremely dangerous, precisely because he is not stupid, but because he is intelligent.

Trump can be instructively compared to Ted Kaczynski, the serial killer known as the Unabomber. Kaczynski was a child genius prodigy, entered Harvard at 16, received his PhD in mathematics at 25, and became the youngest professor – of any kind – to be hired by the University of California. A few years later, Kaczynski withdrew to his now-famous shack in the Montana backwoods, and embarked on his decades-long campaign of mailing homemade bombs to people he didn’t know.

Like Kaczynski, Trump is (in his own words) “Really, really, really smart”. And, like Kaczynski, Trump has a twisted and dysfunctional vision for the future of America.


“I am going to go in there, and I am going to take the oil,” Trump has bellowed to his hypnotized and stupefied audiences.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 13, 2016 - 01:33am PT
I am NOT like some of you that fall all over yourself to LIVE with head hung low, singling out yourself and everybody else in your generation for special condemnation over things that WE didn't do! WE have done everything in our power to give a helping hand, but the "git outta dah cahh, little nigger" mindset still PREVAILS, and NOBODY I know is keeping them in that mindset. Instead, virtually everybody in this nation treats them with kid-gloves, while they treat THEMSELVES like trash.

Not one nation on Earth has been perfect, but slavery has been a FACT of life globally as long as there's been recorded history, and there has always been a market for it. Still is. WE are not there anymore.

THEY had wars, captured themselves, and sold themselves into slavery. I'm sorry for that, but I had nothing to do with it.

And in small proportion the woman calling her own son "little nigger" IS selling him right back into slavery. I'm really sorry for that, but I had nothing to do with that either.

Wow, seriously, I mean wow. Maybe need a little basic psychology and economics to go with all that philosophy. Good thing you similarly had nothing to do with the genocide of Native Americans which spans the entire history of and unavoidably defines aspects of our nation - the holocaust we don't ever speak of. But wtf, they brought it on themselves and you and I (and Walmart) sure as f*#k had nothing to do with it, bear no responsibility, and certainly no need to understand how escaping a condition is not the same thing as escaping the conditioned mindset.

Party on Garth...
john hansen

climber
Feb 13, 2016 - 08:56am PT
I wonder if Andrew Jackson said in his stump speech's..

" and the Indians,, they really really like me"

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 13, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
trump is a media whore. quit giving him attention, and he might go away.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2016 - 01:12pm PT
Huffington post originally put stories about his presidential campaign in the entertainment section.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Feb 13, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
Can someone point out successful populist presidents?

FDR.

Madbolter1, you need to take a deep look inside. All the best to you.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 13, 2016 - 02:20pm PT
Same Here^^^^^^wow.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 13, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
PotatoHead: Since you apparently have no intention of explaining your bizarre post, I'll do it for you:

The picture came from smoloko.com, a virulently anti-semitic, neo-nazi website.

Feel free to correct me, PotatoHead - I'll be perfectly willing to retract this comment if you can provide proof that I am being unfair.

In the meantime, I invite others on this thread to check out the above website & judge for themselves. It's a great way to get a look into the heads of some of the people who support Trump's candidacy.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2016 - 04:09pm PT
Good thing you similarly had nothing to do with the genocide of Native Americans which spans the entire history of and unavoidably defines aspects of our nation - the holocaust we don't ever speak of. But wtf, they brought it on themselves and you and I (and Walmart) sure as f*#k had nothing to do with it, bear no responsibility, and certainly no need to understand how escaping a condition is not the same thing as escaping the conditioned mindset.

Actually, I didn't. Furthermore, Europeans did nothing to any of these "downtrodden peoples" that they weren't already doing to themselves, albeit less efficiently.

Last year I was in Nebraska and visited the main State museum, which had a huge section devoted to Native American history, as well as the relations between Whites and Native Americans. For once there was actual honesty on this subject, rather than a PC song and dance. Yes, we broke treaties. Yes, we slaughtered without mercy on some occasions. In NO way am I saying we were "good" to the native peoples. However, by contrast to the usual song and dance, just one plaque I captured said this....


You seem to conveniently forget that the Native Americans would have had a solid chance to "whip" the European "invasion" had they presented a united and determined front; they almost certainly would have kept a separate nation occupying a huge swath of what is the present USA. However, as you seem to conveniently forget, MANY of them were making deals with the government to sell out other tribes and even scout for the government to help it annihilate other tribes. The fact that they valued their tribal warfare and ancient divisions was a huge causal element in their downfall.

Again, do I think that the government of the time was "good" or "righteous"? OF COURSE NOT! But neither am I going to be shamed and pay and pay and pay for acts done generations ago, acts that I would not have done nor would have anybody I've ever known, and acts that just writ large the SAME THINGS that they were doing to each other before the Europeans brought a terrible efficiency to it.

You seem to have this romanticized version of "noble Indians" and "noble Africans" and so on. But there has been no such people! There has ONLY been wars and slavery and genocide and suffering beyond magnitude throughout human history. So, to single "Whites" out for special condemnation is absurd, and, again, neither me nor anybody I have EVER known is at fault or responsible. Reparations, as so many cry for? Paid to whom? For how many generations back? No, if you want to see reparations, you need to go ALL the way back to the initial causal chains that got certain peoples to destroy each other in the FIRST place! You don't get to single out this or that arbitrary time-slice and say: "The buck stops here."

I can be truly sad for atrocities done in the past, and I indeed am! But I am personally not complicit in them. And the "downtrodden" have ALSO been complicit in their own suffering, which you won't own up to. I don't say "responsible" for their own suffering, as you paint it! I say "complicit," because they are not (especially now) wholly lacking in responsibility for their PRESENT "plight".

Since you brought up the Holocaust as an oblique reference, I am no denier! But, again, every time the "masterminds" try to "fix" something, they end up CAUSING yet more problems, which is why I have NO confidence in political "fixes". To my mind, the nation of Israel can now either stand or fall ON ITS OWN. I don't believe in propping them up anymore, nor do I think we have ANY business being so invested in Middle East affairs. Oil? I would pay double what we have paid at the pump if doing that would get us ENTIRELY OUT of the Middle East! The nation of Israel is a pretty piss-poor "fix" or "reparation" for the Holocaust.

I'm sick and tired of the "masterminds" trying to "fix" things on my behalf, and I don't even share their motivations. There IS no "fixing" things other than to NOW ensure a level playing field. And "level" cannot in principle mean "intentionally propping up one group at the expense of others." The entire philosophy underlying affirmative action and the like is deeply, deeply flawed. At any rate, that's now water under the bridge, but I will not NOW be shamed and singled out for special condemnation for long-ago decisions or supposed racism that I do not share in.

Today is today. It is what it is. To all the "downtrodden" I would say, look to your own PRESENT culture, honestly and forthrightly, and ask YOURSELVES: "What are we doing to perpetrate our own perpetual victim mentality rather than to take ADVANTAGE of the MANY opportunities open to us to rise up and become genuinely PART of society rather than remain APART from it?"

I have known countless black people that I would hire. I have also seen countless that I would not. It's a culture thing, not a RACE thing. In fact, the most recent person my company offered a job to was a young black lady. She was obviously raised with refinement and was well-educated and well-spoken; we would have been proud to have her represent us among our customers. She was torn but ultimately decided to pursue yet more education. Our loss. But SHE is the sort of person we look for, regardless of race.

It's a CULTURE thing, not a RACE thing. Some cultures tend toward success, while others tend toward perpetual victimhood. The hip-hop, gansta-rap, "downtrodden" black community has a LOT of internal soul-searching to do LONG before they have any business turning their eye my direction.

In essence, this cultural thing is what Trump is tying into, and many, both blacks and whites, are finding it to resonate. I find him personally horrifying! But I also appreciate the savvy of the man for detecting the actual perspective that so many DO have.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
Feel better?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2016 - 04:31pm PT
Yessiree-bob
dirtbag

climber
Feb 13, 2016 - 04:31pm PT
Cheers, man!
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Feb 13, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
New World Order 2! Re your mention at the end of your inane & insanely paranoid post copied from, God knows what Fascist site, you mention:

please note I love the Jewish people.
It's the Zionist Jews who are the evil doers, that I don't much care for.

Why certainly, why shouldn't we believe you? Likely many of your best friends are black, latino, & asian as well.

Right?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 13, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
madbolter - You're entitled to your opinion, but it's one I cannot agree with nor respect.



madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
You too!
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 13, 2016 - 05:05pm PT
Yes, we slaughtered without mercy on some occasions.

It's always a relief to be able to tell the DOWNTRODDEN that we only committed genocide occasionally (and if only that were true as opposed to a relentless and not-stop campaign of genocide).

P.S. How sad for conservatives to have to suffer the fact their candidates are clowns and buffoons - thank god Buckley's not alive to witness the spectacle.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
I don't agree, Joe. But the real question is: What do YOU believe "we" owe at this point? What is the genuine fix you propose?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 13, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
The facts in this case are highly disagreeable, which is why they are never acknowledged or discussed.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 13, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
new world order2: At first I thought you were joking, but I am appalled to realize you're not. You are certifiably paranoid.

Perhaps when you have a moment, you can tell us about that all-time classic "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", which I'm sure that you've read from cover to cover.

By the way, there is a large variety of opinions among the who identify themselves as Zionists.

madbolter: I'm not unaware that blacks participated in the slave trade and that wars were fought between indigenous people in the Americas, but to have the arrogance to insinuate that there was no difference to the treatment both groups got at the hands of their white masters betrays an intellectual arrogance that beggars belief.

The support for Trump isn't the result of an informed electorate banding together in a spirit of goodwill to create a better United States. It is a coalition of ignorant, mean-spirited greedheads who are hell-bent upon destroying any trace of the principles that the Founding Fathers envisaged when they created the U.S.A.

Shame on both of you.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2016 - 05:53pm PT
The facts in this case are highly disagreeable, which is why they are never acknowledged or discussed.

Okay. Whatever. My question remains: What's the grand "fix" you propose?

but to have the arrogance to insinuate that there was no difference to the treatment both groups got at the hands of their white masters betrays an intellectual arrogance that beggars belief.

Difference from what? Your statement is too vague for me to know what exactly you are attributing to my supposed belief, so I can't respond. But the fact that you ascribe "intellectual arrogance" to me doesn't make it stick. Opinions vary.

Again, since you are in the "fixer" camp, exactly what do you propose to make it all right again?

The support for Trump isn't the result of an informed electorate banding together in a spirit of goodwill to create a better United States. It is a coalition of ignorant, mean-spirited greedheads who are hell-bent upon destroying any trace of the principles that the Founding Fathers envisaged when they created the U.S.A.

Ridiculous!

Shame on both of you.

Your (and anybody else's) shame is precisely what I very intentionally and strenuously reject.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 13, 2016 - 06:06pm PT
It's a CULTURE thing

In other words, as long as they act like a white, and talk like a white,
It's all good
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 13, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
In other words, as long as they act like a white, and talk like a white, It's all good

LOL... determined to misunderstand, I see. It's okay. You apparently are not a business owner trying to find good help. If you think that some goofball, of any race, that can't speak proper English and wears his pants down around his upper-thighs, while blasting hip-hop into his ears while you're trying to explain the job to him is "good help," then you don't care for your business to last long. LOL

Well, I'm off for a Valentine's holiday excursion.

Later.
zBrown

Ice climber
Feb 13, 2016 - 06:19pm PT
I'll see your absurd talk and raise 17 bucks (age 12-20). Should be easy nuff to train 'em up right good.

SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Feb 13, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
Knock down. Drag out with Bush. Phew. Thought it would come to blows.

Susan
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Feb 13, 2016 - 06:58pm PT
madbolter1:

are you seriously arguing that the u.s.a., as a structural entity, has done enough in the last 62 years to repair the mistakes made during its 178 yrs of structural racism and the in total 428 yrs of european descended but north american based structural racism that it was founded on and continued?

or, as it appears in some instances, are you arguing that no reparations should have been made, and that the repealing of federal laws in 1954 was all that was required?

or are you just trying to argue that you personally, as a white individual who had nothing to do directly with that past, should not be implicated in the guilt associated with those decisions made long before your time?

i get the latter, but as it appears you're arguing one or both of the former, i am left quite astounded.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Feb 13, 2016 - 09:54pm PT
In the local mexican store they have Trump pinatas for sale - not cuz he is revered, but to beat the sh#t out of.
I think they associate anything presumed "rich" etc as corrupt, racist or whatever.

nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Feb 14, 2016 - 08:38am PT
*
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 14, 2016 - 09:26am PT
What do YOU believe "we" owe at this point?

I personally believe that we owe a smile to people we pass on the streets, and if their skin color is noticed to be varied from our own, that's like a hand held out to acknowledge a fellow human being.

I personally believe we owe it to ourselves to become educated on what effects years of poverty and oppression can have on a person - EVEN when the poverty and oppression has ceased.

You gave a story of a woman who was abusive to her child as an example of "them," without even thinking of writing that you know "not all" behave that way or that you have seen "white people do the same." If you don't know that, or you haven't seen that, then you need to get out more, sir. You saw an example of bad parenting, and the actors just happened to be of African descent.



If you think that some goofball, of any race, that can't speak proper English and wears his pants down around his upper-thighs, while blasting hip-hop into his ears while you're trying to explain the job to him is "good help," .....

Perhaps you lack in the capacity to judge character in your hiring, or perhaps you are not offering an incentive that attracts people with a more refined set of social and business skills.

When I hired people for my dog-walking service, there were guidelines which were clearly provided, and I had a system in place to ensure that they were. "No cel phone conversations" and "no earphones" while with a client(animal or human) was specifically outlined.

If your job requires "proper english," or dress guidelines, or the non-use of things like earphones, as an employer it is your prerogative to explain this and deal with any infractions. Believe it or not, there ARE jobs where none of those things you mentioned would be detrimental to a job.

You are racist; I feel sorry for you. It is a sad way to go about the daily chores of living.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 14, 2016 - 09:31am PT
The day Beyonce turned Black

[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Feb 14, 2016 - 09:45am PT
Welcome back locker!
Norton

Social climber
Feb 14, 2016 - 09:53am PT
Does anyone here on ST still believe he would be a good President???...

sure, my guess is quite a few of our forum "conservatives" will vote for him when
he is the official Republican Nominee for President

but to name just one, Pyro, has said a few times that he supports The Donald

because its all about being Against the Democratic Pary more so than being For
the Republican Party

God, Guns, and Gays

SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Feb 14, 2016 - 10:01am PT
The debate made ST look like a sandbox.

I loved Carson's "the evil government".

On a serious note....it's all very scary.


Susan
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 14, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
are you seriously arguing that the u.s.a., as a structural entity, has done enough in the last 62 years to repair the mistakes made during its 178 yrs of structural racism and the in total 428 yrs of european descended but north american based structural racism that it was founded on and continued?

I'm asking a QUESTION, which has not yet been answered straightforwardly, which is: When is enough enough? How MUCH does your "camp" feel that people of our generation OWE now?

or, as it appears in some instances, are you arguing that no reparations should have been made, and that the repealing of federal laws in 1954 was all that was required?

I'm not "arguing" that. Again, I'm trying to get clear about what folks like you feel like it takes to finally expect a generation to stand on their own two feet without excuses.

or are you just trying to argue that you personally, as a white individual who had nothing to do directly with that past, should not be implicated in the guilt associated with those decisions made long before your time?

Now you're getting there! I refuse to be shamed for deeds done in the past that I would not have done and that have are no reflection upon my perspectives.

i get the latter, but as it appears you're arguing one or both of the former, i am left quite astounded.

No. People here are so HYPER-sensitive to ANYBODY even suggesting that black people TODAY bear SOME measure of responsibility for their CURRENT position that the frothing at the mouth and spitting, sputtering rebukes of, "You're a racist" just come FLYING out without the SLIGHTEST effort to understand a nuanced perspective.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 14, 2016 - 05:22pm PT
Nuanced? Nope. More like the antonym, course or rough.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Feb 14, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
trump is a joke, even The Donald is surprised that rubes take his shtick seriously

whether you like it or not (for the record, I don't like it) -- President Clinton will be inaugurated in January 2017
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 14, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
I personally believe that we owe a smile to people we pass on the streets, and if their skin color is noticed to be varied from our own, that's like a hand held out to acknowledge a fellow human being.

No doubt, but that's a pretty low bar to get over.

I personally believe we owe it to ourselves to become educated on what effects years of poverty and oppression can have on a person - EVEN when the poverty and oppression has ceased.

Clearly, you don't know me, and you're projecting a LOT of BS onto my perspectives that is not legitimate. You accuse me of being too quick to judge, but you have judged me IN TOTO on the basis of astoundingly incomplete evidence, and you've misread the "evidence" you think you have.

I read "Black Like Me" when I was an early teen, and it was a revelation that stuck with me and informed my perspectives about the plight of the black community ever since.

Since that time, I have had endless interactions with black people, from the projects where I grew up to the university classes I have taught. I have seen that, like all races of people, black people come in the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Some of the finest people I have ever known in my life have been black, and I don't think of them AS black. I think of them AS people. Such as....

The outgoing president of my denomination, a man I had the honor to serve directly under as executive director of that denomination, a refined, dedicated, well-read gentleman of the highest caliber, a man I prayed with, wept with in denominational hardship, and celebrated his triumphs and retirement.

The present president of our ministerial council and denominational board chairman, who, like the above, is one of the finest human beings I have ever met and who has garnered world-wide respect and admiration among the people of our denomination.

And don't pop off with the SUPPOSEDLY decimating line, "Oh, yeah, right. Some of your best friends are black." That's a TOTALLY specious retort, because it throws the opponent into a catch-22, which is by design: He can't talk about the MANY black people he LOVES, yet if he doesn't, then it's obvious that he doesn't know/love any black people.

That's the problem with ALL "racial" talk: It's impossible for it to not be loaded with presumptions of racism, even when there is none.

In point of FACT, I have had profoundly close and intimate relationships with a WIDE range of black people my entire life, and I have been horrified and worked to resolve stories I've heard (in my role as executive director) of racism in my denomination. And if you talked to black people close to me, with whom I have talked in depth about the very things we're talking about here, THEY understand my perspectives very well and SHARE them!

THEY would be the first to tell you that I am no racist and that they themselves decry the endless victim-mentality and excuses perpetrated by too much of the black community. THEY cite Colin Powell's urging the black community to take advantage of the opportunities provided and quit appealing to distant abuse TODAY.

You gave a story of a woman who was abusive to her child as an example of "them," without even thinking of writing that you know "not all" behave that way or that you have seen "white people do the same." If you don't know that, or you haven't seen that, then you need to get out more, sir. You saw an example of bad parenting, and the actors just happened to be of African descent.

Nope. Sorry! You do NOT get to sum up the story that way. That's lame!

NOBODY in the white community that I have EVER seen, even growing up in the ghetto, was calling their son "white trash" or "cracker" or any other RACIAL epithet! THAT is the issue here: This black woman was USING racial epithets against her own son, and blacks do that a LOT.

Perhaps YOU haven't gotten out much (into the real inner cities where I grew up). Perhaps YOU don't listen to much gansta-rap and hip-hop, where MUCH of it uses "nigger" as an epithet. Very few white people still call blacks "niggers," but they continually call themselves that. And until THEY get past this fundamentally racist world-view, they PROJECT a racism (and have many hand-wringing white libtards to help them) onto the vast majority of the white population that is NOT racist and WISHES we could all just get past it!

It is OUTRAGEOUS for the black woman to rebuke her son AS she did, forget about "bad parenting."

Perhaps you lack in the capacity to judge character in your hiring, or perhaps you are not offering an incentive that attracts people with a more refined set of social and business skills.

That statement is just so ridiculous on so many levels that I'm astounded at how flip you think it's acceptable to be. My company is composed of tremendous people, and we serve some of the finest universities on this planet. We certainly DO have the capacity to judge what it takes to have people at the level of education, refinement, and communications skills to serve our customers. And the sort of person I described is NOT it!

When I hired people for my dog-walking service, there were guidelines which were clearly provided

Really? Are you kidding?

You had "standard" for your dog-walking service, and you bag on me for having standards in my business that provides mission-critical, enterprise-grade systems that serve entire universities, systems that serve millions of students, faculty, staff, and administrators across the USA and Canada?

Sorry, that's an apples and moon-rocks comparison!

Yeah, we have standards, and they do NOT include the sort of low-lifes I described that moan about how "racist" everybody is, so that they can't get a "decent" job. But they can't even pull their pants up! LOL

Believe it or not, there ARE jobs where none of those things you mentioned would be detrimental to a job.

The entire tone of your message is SO demeaning and judgmental, like you know me. But you are CLUELESS.

You are racist; I feel sorry for you.

The sorrow is shared! I'm ASTOUNDED at how tritely people like you issue one of the most horrible judgments possible today! Because I don't share YOUR particular perspectives does NOT make me a racist, and it is flat-out CRAZY that you feel free to call somebody you OBVIOUSLY don't know such a horrible thing.

It is a sad way to go about the daily chores of living.

I have NO idea what this statement means. I find your entire message to be pathetically ignorant, judgmental, and outrageous.

All I can say to YOU is what I said up-thread, the pendulum is swinging, baby... and MANY blacks (such as the ones I mentioned above and many more like them) are disgusted by what they see in the black community at large. We're all about tired of the moaning and excuses and are really tired of paying and paying for BEHAVIORS that are SELF-destructive!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 14, 2016 - 05:54pm PT
Would you have not done those nasty things if you were from the generation that did ?

Who knows, Jim? I, of course, like to think that the "me" that would have existed then would have been the "me" of today, namely that I could see right from wrong. Certainly there were MANY even back in the day that saw the injustice and insanity of considering another human being as "inferior" and worthy of enslavement due to skin-color. I hope that the "me" in question would have a character that would transcend cultural mores. The "me" I see in the mirror has been willing to take the road less traveled by and buck popular perspectives.

So I hope! But, your point is well-taken, and it's impossible to know.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Feb 14, 2016 - 06:49pm PT
Would you have not done those nasty things if you were from the generation that did ?

That is a more important question that it appears at first glance. For most of us, including you, Richard, and you, Jim, the answer is probably "yes,"

And, if so, it means we ought to question the "Well, I personally haven't put down any blacks, so it's up to them to get their 21st Century sh#t together."

Which is not to say Richard's sentiments are stupid or wrong. Rather that the problem won't be solved simply by saying that blacks (or chinks, or polacks or whites, or Syrian migrants, or whatever immigrant minority) should just harden the f*#k up and get on with it.

You can't simply wave your hands and make four centuries of institutionalized racism suddenly disappear. Nor can you solve all the problems by saying "This is all our fault."

Gotta be some work by everybody.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 14, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
Gotta be some work by everybody.

I totally agree!

But I'm tired of superficial "answers" and the continual playing of the race card to alienate the very people that would be engaged with GENUINE solutions once they could be figured out. And I am sick to DEATH of being called a racist when I most certainly am not.

And this is why I keep asking: What's the plan? More of the same?
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Feb 14, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
And this is why I keep asking: What's the plan? More of the same?

I haven't got an easy answer. I doubt there is any simple plan that will solve all the problems. As I said above, I think this is going to take a lot of work by everybody -- whether black/white in the US native/euro in Canada, Muslim immigrant/euro native in Europe, or any of the endless other racial/cultural/religious messes in the world.

But let me toss your question back at you, Richard: What is your plan?
zBrown

Ice climber
Feb 14, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
I'm asking a QUESTION, which has not yet been answered straightforwardly, which is: When is enough enough? How MUCH does your "camp" feel that people of our generation OWE now?

How this got in the Donald arena I'm not sure (is he racist?), but could we get a straightforward assessment of how much of the debt, which you seem to be acknowledging, has been paid down so far? By whom?

I predict Hillary will win it.
-Nostril_da_moose


Then will Obama withdraw his nominee and who will Hillary pick?




madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 14, 2016 - 09:41pm PT
I appreciate your attitude about this, Ghost. I'll start by saying that.

Regarding my plan, I would start by asking further questions, because I believe that until we are on the same page about what counts as "success," we're going to be fighting among ourselves about "direction."

So, let's start with what counts as "success". Regarding "success," I believe that a "color-blind" society is impossible in principle; it's basic psychology that people are "tribal" and form up into "us/them" groups. Part of defining another group as "them" is appearance. You can educate and educate, but that basic psychology is very resilient. The "us/them" mentality defines everything from family units to football fans. It can become "more color-blind," but there will ALWAYS be pockets of people that just can't get past it regarding color. So, our best hope is to relegate such people to the tiny minority, where they were once the mainstream.

Given that the idea of absolute "color blindness" is impossible, what we CAN do is systematically take the stigma out of color. I think that we actually HAVE been systematically doing an increasingly effective job of that just during my lifetime. We're not "there" yet, but there are HUGE swaths of society (the majority) that no longer associate black with inferior or even bad. I'm all for "more of the same" regarding the educational and media-based process that can hopefully come close to eliminating the ever-shrinking pockets of genuine racism that still exist.

The flip side of the above coin is that we need to stop the reverse-racism that treats "whitie" as the enemy, when already the vast majority of "whitie" is NOT the enemy.

On that point, if there's a bad cop who IS a racist, s/he should be terminated and even indicted, depending upon what s/he did. Conversely, it is entirely unacceptable for society to be so running scared of even the whispered, much more yelled, accusation of racism that a white cop is effectively disarmed in the face of a black thug. For example, MOST of the cases cited by BLM are ridiculous. You do NOT get to be a thug and assault a cop and expect (nay, demand) to live through it. And you're NO hero if you get shot for doing something that NO sensible, non-thug in civilized SOCIETY would think of doing. Quit being a thug, and you'll suddenly find yourself in little danger of getting shot by ANY cop.

There is simply NO comparison between the black gentlemen I referred to up-thread and these thugs that are getting themselves shot. And the gentlemen I referred to are not getting themselves into situations where they have to worry about "police racism." Let the black community start emulating the MANY examples of genuinely great people of color instead of demeaning them with racial epithets like "Oreo Cookie" and other such crap!

Now, let me hasten to say that "the black community" has really become bifurcated, and that is a HUGE source of problems today. THAT is why I referred to "culturism" rather than "racism." And my up-thread effort was met with such ridiculous lines as, "So, if they act white, then it's all good." Look, it's not a matter of acting "white". It's a matter of acting civilized! If what THAT means has to be explained to you, then you are part of the problem or your are being intentionally daft, in which case, well, you are part of the problem.

Regarding the bifurcation, a HUGE part of "the black community" has become totally mainstream in every sense. They have realized that education and careerism leads to success, respect, integration, and a lack of racism within their sphere. The media could do MUCH more to report on these many, many success stories instead of glorifying thuggism and "oppression" that really is not.

Part of the educational process is going to have to include a very systematic recognition that it is UNACCEPTABLE today to so quickly plop down the race card and accuse others of racism. It's a HORRIBLE and truly painful accusation, and being quick on the draw with that accusation undermines the unifying efforts of decades! At this point, society has gone too far, imo, toward "seeing" racism everywhere.

There is a vast difference between "behavioralism," which is legitimate, and racism, which is not. THAT needs to be more clearly and sweepingly articulated. That articulation would not only applaud those who HAVE succeeded (and the means by which they did so), but it would point a very legitimate finger at the behavior CHOICES that do not tend toward success or are actually ANTI-society.

So, in the end, the basis of any productive societal change is going to be fundamentally cultural education. Our focus has been SO thoroughly on identifying and condemning racism that now we "see" it everywhere, particularly where it is not. It's time for educational institutions, media, and even individuals to ratchet that back and PRESUME that a person is NOT racist, even if the person expresses disagreement with or disapproval of this or that behavior.

Finally, people of all races should be systematically confronted with some basic facts. Being an acceptable, normalized part of society means that you have a fundamentally LEGAL perspective. You don't get to act illegally and use the race card to extort a pass for it! You act like a thug, and you ARE going to get put down for it, without sympathy, and without some racial excuse. There HAS to be a basis in individual responsibility that has NOTHING to do with race. And it has to be made systematically clear that the FOUNDATION of society is to be law-abiding.

These are broad-strokes ideas rather than a "plan". But I don't totally punt either. As I said at the start, part of the problem is that we have never clearly articulated what "the problem" is or what "success" would look like. Also, I don't have ANY power, which would come with better data and access to the channels by which things (including media manipulations) can be made to happen. Ultimately, cultural change can only come by education. I'm advocating as systematic and sweeping of a pendulum swing back to a more balanced perspective now as there once was to elevate the issue of what was once a pervasive problem with racism.

I am NOT saying that racism is non-existent! I'm not saying, "Problem solved, so let's just put it all behind us." I'm saying, "Problem has been pushed largely into the shadows, and it is NOT mainstream anymore. So, let's elevate what's RIGHT about the mainstream now, and in the SHADOWS go after the remaining problems that are in the shadows." Now I believe it's time to focus on success-stories rather than witch-hunts. COULD the media genuinely focus, systematically and continually, on positive stories (such as the vast respect the president I referred to has achieved)? There are MILLIONS of such stories to tell! Let's elevate what's right in the black community and not be afraid to condemn what's wrong. Certain behaviors are entirely unacceptable and must be roundly condemned. And it's not "racism" to condemn such behaviors in no uncertain terms.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 14, 2016 - 09:55pm PT
And I am sick to DEATH of being called a racist when I most certainly am not.

If, as you say, you keep being called a racist, you might consider that what you are doing is adopting the rhetoric and mannerisms of racists.

After all, if I see a guy walking down the street towards me wearing a sheet, it is natural to make assumptions.

I will note that I cannot recall being called a racist in the last 30 years, even by my black friends. I would bet that many white guys here have the same experience.

WHY is your experience different?

It is good that you are asking questions (although on the wrong thread)

"If my Answers frighten you Vincent then you should cease asking scary questions"
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 14, 2016 - 10:56pm PT
If, as you say, you keep being called a racist, you might consider that what you are doing is adopting the rhetoric and mannerisms of racists.

No, you are conflating. I'll give you an example.

In a college course I had to take, called "Perspectives on Gender," about 150 of us were in a large lecture hall. At one point, the teachers called the whole group up onto the stage in one big, milling herd. At that point, the teachers got down to their intended business....

"Females, please move to the left side of the stage. Males to the right side, please."

We moved as told.

"Those on the right are the oppressors. Those on the left are the oppressed. Now, please come back to the center of the stage."

We did, only to find that this was just round one of many rounds to come....

"People of color, please move to the left side of the stage. Caucasians, please move to the right side of the stage."

We split up as told.

"Those of your on the right are the oppressors. Those of you on the left are the oppressed. Okay, now come back together in the center."

We did as told.

"Homosexuals, please move to the left of the stage. Hetrosexuals, please move to the right."

On and on this crap continued, and "I" was always the "oppressor."

Finally, it was so ridiculous that even the "oppressed" were telling the teachers to stop it. But there's a pervasive mindset today that "Whitie" is prima facie evil.

I'm sick of it.

I will note that I cannot recall being called a racist in the last 30 years, even by my black friends. I would bet that many white guys here have the same experience.

It would be mighty ODD if your black "friends" were telling you that you are a racist! So, I'm not impressed that they are not.

And it doesn't surprise me that a guy who spends his life pandering to REVERSE racism would not be called a racist, even if he actually is.

I would also bet that MANY black guys have gone 30 years without being called a "nigger" by any white guy. So, I guess that there's no anti-black racism.

Look, whatever your circles have been does not address the circles others have experienced. Furthermore, you don't even realize how ridiculous your statement is in its IRONY! You are employing the EXACT same reasoning that blames the victim of racism: "Hey, darky, what are you DOING to bring this racism down on yourself. I've got lots of black friends that have never been called 'nigger,' so if it's happening to you, perhaps you are acting like a 'nigger'. Did you ever think of that?"

WHY is your experience different?

I don't know, and neither do you. What I do know is that I have probably been in different situations and circumstances than you. Did you grow up in inner-city projects, in a one-parent, drug and gang-infested family? Did you attend an inner-city high school with daily racial violence? Did you see daily gangland fights and frequent maimings and homicides? Did you witness your first gangland murder by age 15? Have you ever seen a gang of blacks beat a white guy to death with baseball bats? Have you ever seen a gang of whites then retaliate in kind? Have you ever been shot at by gang-bangers? Have you gone to college in a racially-tensioned school? Have you taught at racially-tensioned high-schools or universities?

I could honestly go on and on. If you think that hanging around and drinking some beers with fellow middle-class, liberal buddies is an experience ANYTHING like mine, then that would explain why you have no clue why your question is so loaded.

It is good that you are asking questions (although on the wrong thread)

It's not the wrong thread. People on THIS thread have repeatedly accused Trump of being a racist, misogynist, fascist, etc. From my own experience, I would say that he probably is not, and I find the ease with which people throw such hideous accusations around disgusting.

"If my Answers frighten you Vincent then you should cease asking scary questions"

Ridiculous.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 14, 2016 - 11:05pm PT
That was mighty white of you to say so, Richard.

Ackk... this and the rest of your post is why I have to again conclude that it's just an absolute waste of time to try to argue on the Taco Stand. It ALWAYS devolves into sick, distorted, personal attacks. And it is literally not worth trying to "defend" against the layers of stupidity that ground these attacks.

"2 year contract to a Christian college in a corn field, trying to be a university ?"

Are you SERIOUS? Is this REALLY the level you stoop to?

I really do have much better uses of my time.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 15, 2016 - 06:49am PT
madbolter, Donald Trump may not actually be a racist, as you believe, but he sure does attract a lot of them and he sure is happy to have their support. He skips the dog whistles and goes right to the bullhorn.

Like, Ken, I've avoided being called a racist in my life, mostly because as an older white guy I don't try to lecture black people on how they should be dealing with obvious racial inequality. I do believe, however, that most want "a hand up, not a handout", as the saying goes.

And if you're posting your theories on the Donald thread because you think he would do a better job advancing race relations over the Dem candidate, well, expect a vigorous debate on that one.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 15, 2016 - 07:27am PT
If advocating for policies that discriminate against certain types of people based on their race isn't racism then the word no longer has any meaning.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Feb 15, 2016 - 07:33am PT
MadBolter writes

I really do have much better uses of my time.

No. No you don't.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 15, 2016 - 08:14am PT
Tickets for future debates should be put out to the general public instead of being given to the lobbyists & special interests - the bosses! I only want to work for the American people to give them the government and country they deserve. This movement is growing fast and together we will MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

Donald Trump


sure, my guess is quite a few of our forum "conservatives" will vote for him when
he is the official Republican Nominee for President

but to name just one, Pyro, has said a few times that he supports The Donald

Norton you will never know who I vote for..
check out Donald's comment above sounds pretty sane to me nor racist..

go figure
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 15, 2016 - 08:26am PT
Hell, I'll vote for Trump in a heartbeat given the radical choices on the left. Maybe he can actually eliminate some of the entrenched bureaucracy and roll back many of the nonsensical, redundant, and ruinous regulations. Maybe even deport the progressive commies, lgbt's, shift less and lazy along with the illegals.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 15, 2016 - 08:34am PT
Rick, you forgot glue sniffers and sheep f*#kers--AGAIN.

I'm going to keep reminding you until you get it right!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 15, 2016 - 08:45am PT
I actually have a lot or respect for Trump saying W's invasion of Iraq was based on a lie. Wow.

As for the debates, I think they should all be given clocks like they give the players in a chess match. You get only so much time per debate. When you click on your clock, your mic goes live, and you have to click the watch off to stop it. Then, when you're out of time, no more talking! Enough of this going over your allotted 30 seconds.

And why don't the ask everybody the same questions?

They should modernize the debates by allowing the candidates to show multi-media, such as graphics, to make their points. You know, turn then into the infomercials that they are.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 15, 2016 - 09:00am PT
But there's a pervasive mindset today that "Whitie" is prima facie evil.

Actually, I think not. Sure, there are those who will spout that, just like "all women are irrational" or "all men are so stubborn they won't ask for help."

You know - I hear the same stories you tell, read the same articles, and I never feel like someone is accusing me of being "evil whitie" NOR do I believe that the vast majority of the world that is non-causcasion sees the entire white group of people as evil.

I'll not respond to the vast amount of text you posted further, but since you first wrote that smiling at people is a pretty low bar, may I suggest you try it for a couple of days? Just try, and see what happens. You may be surprised. If you'd like to give me a similar "low bar" exercise to try, I'll be happy to consider it as well.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 15, 2016 - 09:04am PT
I actually have a lot or respect for Trump saying W's invasion of Iraq was based on a lie. Wow.


K-man, it is fact that the invasion was indeed based upon that lie.

But did President Bush actually lie, did Colin Powell and Cheney lie?

I do not think so as they truly believed there were WMDs in Iraq, because they
were told that by a prominent Iraqi who also believed that and was emphatically wrong

Never mind that the United Nations Weapons Inspectors said no, there are no WMDs.

The fact that Bush, Rice, Powell, et all CHOSE to believe, in spite of "evidence" per the UN is the real and worst tragedy. I believe that wanted to believe so they could use that to sell to the American people that as a justification to invade Iraq.

They were horribly wrong, but they did not "lie", because a lie is when you know something is not true but say it is anyway.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 15, 2016 - 10:27am PT

Why isn't this Harry Reid billion dollar dem enrichment plan on and producing power?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 15, 2016 - 10:27am PT
Shhhh, Forum Bully, you're going to blow your oxygen mask off and wake the other patients.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 15, 2016 - 10:32am PT
rick posted
Hell, I'll vote for Trump in a heartbeat given the radical choices on the left. Maybe he can actually eliminate some of the entrenched bureaucracy and roll back many of the nonsensical, redundant, and ruinous regulations. Maybe even deport the progressive commies, lgbt's, shift less and lazy along with the illegals.


21st century America
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Feb 15, 2016 - 10:44am PT
The US with one of greatest intelligence infrastructures in place in the world knew exactly what's going on at that time.

They lied like there is no tomorrow.



Yup.


Susan
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Feb 15, 2016 - 10:58am PT
I'm asking a QUESTION, which has not yet been answered straightforwardly, which is: When is enough enough?

When a black kid no longer has to be extraordinary to make it in society. When a run of the mill black kid can get by just as well as a run of the mill white kid.

We aren't there yet, my friend.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 15, 2016 - 04:28pm PT
Maybe when cops routinely get to use unarmed blacks for target practice.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 15, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
Almost 3,000 posts! Go Trump!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Feb 15, 2016 - 06:56pm PT
The US with one of greatest intelligence infrastructures in place in the world knew exactly what's going on at that time.


In the 1980's, someone who'd worked in the Fort Meade caverns told me that the NSA could take a tiny parabolic dish, point it at the telephone wires down the street from a house, and listen in on all the calls. There was no need for alligator clips at the side of the house, or any of that fake movie nonsense. There was no need to gain access to the telephone company's buildings.

In 1985 he said the NSA was collecting everything, from everyone, with no search warrants. He said every call, fax, radio message was collected, screened, analyzed and stored.

I thought he was exaggerating.

Today, I think he was understating what they could do back then. He wasn't high up enough, in rank, to know about the most sophisticated systems.


I think Snowden, for all he was able to gather and disseminate, was just some low-level flunky who had no real access to what the NSA is really up to. What Snowden provided is all true, but the REAL truth is much worse.






WVB:

Al Gore miffed he lost election.

Gore spent daddy's money making Global Warming.

Bush spent daddy's money making War on Terror.

Gore and Bush fighting for market share.

And now?

We have, over there, in Ring Number Three, Herr Drumpfkopf der Neu Fuhrer.

Herr Drumpfkopf spends daddy's money for market share from Gore and Bush.

Drumpfkopf is one-man freak show.

Drumpfkopf loves gold loo roll, his mistress, in that order.

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 15, 2016 - 09:57pm PT
When cell phones first came out, we could use TVs to listen in on calls. Channel 14 to like 18 seemed to work best.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 16, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
Talking about Ease dropping on Cell Phones calls!!!!

It's really big, and really bad.

Cops along any road now can listen in to your calls as you drive by their towers, and they listen for stuff about drugs or whatever, then put a tag on your call and locate you on their GPS, then send out a patrol man to catch you going 5 mph over the speed limit, and off you go to jail.

It's being kept Hush hush, since it's so illegal and all

The towers are called StingRays

You wonder why all the people police pull over have drugs? This is why.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 16, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
Yep, Trump supporters are an enlightened bunch, alright:


Thirty-eight percent of Donald Trump supporters in South Carolina wish the South had won the Civil War, according to a new poll by Public Policy Polling. Another 38 percent are undecided, and 24 percent are glad the North won.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/takingnote/2016/02/16/facts-figures-south-carolina-trump-supporters-on-the-civil-war/
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 16, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
Sanders wishes the Soviet Union had won the Cold War.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 16, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
You guys sure love to hate on people. Anybody that is different from you and the way you think, you just insult them. Animal Farm playing out. The righteous pigs!
dirtbag

climber
Feb 16, 2016 - 07:49pm PT
Yeah, well, trad ridge, so I don't like retrograde, pro-confederate, racist, bigoted pukes, and their narcissistic, shallow pied piper. Sue me.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 16, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 16, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
Sanders wishes the Soviet Union had won the Cold War.

Link please
are you going to be that clueless?


Jeb is getting feisty..
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 16, 2016 - 09:16pm PT

Trump sure loves to hate on people. Anybody that is different from him and the way he thinks, he just insults them.

Fixed it for you trail ridge.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Feb 17, 2016 - 12:04am PT
madbolter1:

i'll start with a couple points to attempt to explain where i'm coming at this from and then for the sake of conversation i'll throw out a relatively off the cuff initial response to your question regarding what, i think, the u.s. as a structural entity might need to do in order to attempt to "right" the wrongs of the past. if you do take the time to do one of your point by point responses and i don't take the time to respond, know that i'm sure i'll find it worthy of reading, even if i don't care to flesh through all of the detail that i know you and i could get into if we were both sitting in old folks homes with nothing better to do...



first, here are some of the things you wrote that made it difficult for me to see that there was any nuance in your position and why i thought you were arguing one of the first two points that i stated:

"We owe the gansta-rap, hip-hop, BLM-while-blacks-are-the-real-killers-of-blacks, entitlement crowd NOTHING at this point."

"NOBODY is keeping you [descendents of african americans] down anymore."

"There IS no "fixing" things other than to NOW ensure a level playing field."

but one of the biggest issues was the cognitive dissonance that it took to be aware that that mother you saw in the walmart parking lot was stacking the odds against her own child's potential when you said "What chance does the 'little nigger' have when YOU keep the next generation in the gutter like that?" while at the same time you apparently had no openness to wondering why the mother might have ended up in the position where she was doing that to her own flesh and blood and rather said: "WE have done everything in our power to give a helping hand, but the "git outta dah cahh, little nigger" mindset still PREVAILS, and NOBODY I know is keeping them in that mindset."

you seem to think that once legal structures that have lasted 4-500 years are eliminated that the psychological/social/emotional results of that horrid mess should just disappear after the first generation and in the case of that mother, she should just get her sh#t together, so to speak.

but thanks for clarifying that you don't have a closed mind to the need for reparations. because if you haven't taken one of the first two positions i stated then i'm effectively in your "camp" in so much as i completely agree, that to attempt to make present day white individuals, who had nothing to do with the failings of the past, feel guilty for something they had nothing to do with is, at this point, just a form of reverse racism.



and so secondly, that last line i wrote above, is not just an intellectual/hypothetical argument for me.

an organization that i care[d] about deeply and that i felt was doing great work for a marginalized community was shut down due i large part to charges of structural racism. and to this day, i have seen no objective evidence of what was claimed. there was, from what i saw, no willingness by the accusers to bring their claims to independent third parties and at certain instances there is no question in my mind that anybody who was white was refused a voice to respond.

it was sickening.

because at the end of the day most of the community [people of color, white, and etc.] just wanted to get to the bottom of the charges, to heal, and to move forward with the work.

unfortunately a vocal minority held the whole organization hostage to the point that the people who were volunteering their time to give structure to the organization collectively resigned, effectively terminating the organization.

point being: i have a deep personal interest in these discussions.



and so thirdly, with regards to your question of what needs to be done.

first, i'm not a historian, and so am open to being corrected if i'm wrong, but i'm not aware and also don't get the sense that the u.s. government has ever fully acknowledged and apologized for it's structurally racist past.

i'm also not aware of the u.s. ever having truth and reconciliation style discussions to determine what had happened both while there was federal structural racism but also the structural racism that exists in its insidious forms to this day.

and finally the point of those discussions should be to come to agreements on what should be done. my sense is given the lengthy duration of the offence, if the u.s. was to work through a process as per the above, that the reparations would probably need to stay in place for at least two and likely even three generations. reparations would likely include affirmitive action within any government funded organizations [and yes i know you and i are going to disagree on that one] with an agreement as to when affirmitive action should end. ie. any reparations, including but not limited to affirmative action, should also not be indefinite, but rather should have a negotiated and agreed to life cycle.

the point of all of this wouldn't be to make white people individually feel guilty, but rather to acknowledge that the system as a whole failed in its fundamental intent.



but at the end of the day as long as the majority thinks as you seem to do that "There IS no "fixing" things other than to NOW ensure a level playing field." then i suspect the u.s. will continue in the same psychological/social/emotional cycles for a much lengthier time.

that's because i'm a believer that while reparations can never change the past, they can expedite healing in the present by having the perpetrator more fully demonstrate their remorse and their commitment to not repeating the mistakes of the past.

i believe this is true both when the perpetrator is an individual and when, as in the case at hand, it is an organization.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 17, 2016 - 02:06am PT
In 1985 he said the NSA was collecting everything, from everyone, with no search warrants. He said every call, fax, radio message was collected, screened, analyzed and stored.

I thought he was exaggerating.

Today, I think he was understating what they could do back then. He wasn't high up enough, in rank, to know about the most sophisticated systems.

Except that he was exaggerating. In 1985 I worked in one to the top computer R&D labs and can categorically state that, even if the capabilities were there to collect data as he claimed (I doubt it), there was little capacity for storing it and less still for analysing it in bulk. In 1985 a typical, commercially-installed 10MB hard drive (that's right MB) was still a expensive, the size of a dorm frig and a fragile and unreliable affair and I can't tell you how many platters I saw turned into so much aluminum shavings due to head crashes. Smaller, somewhat more reliable pc-size drives started in 1980 and by '85 saw greater routine availability in 5-10MB sizes, but were still incredibly expensive and the production numbers were still quite low.

The point being, the storage just wasn't there, the I/O wasn't really there and even if you could amass a bunch of data, processing it was still slow. All in all, systems scaled out only so far and then rapidly became unwieldy. The software was also a limitation, though probably the least of the bottlenecks. The 'big data' hardware and software in use today had many hurdles to overcome (and are still overcoming) but are highly effective in comparison allowing us to tackle all kinds of problems which were previously only imaginable.

Their use at scale by the NSA was not surprising or unexpected, but what was surprising and unexpected was the NSA's near total lack of operational segmentation, isolation, and role-based access to the data as revealed by both Manning and Snowden. And you can tell that lack of 'discipline' was itself a symptom - that these basic security protocols or 'formalities' were simply cast aside as obstacles to a politically-driven need to scale out the capability with all due speed. It's a bottomline reminder that scaling out in a disciplined manner is still hard even today. The folks I think who do it best are at CERN with the LHC with its unbelievable data storage and analysis challenges.







EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 17, 2016 - 04:50am PT
narcissistic orgy of hating on people you don't know and can't relate to

Welcome to the Taco Stand.

dirtbag

climber
Feb 17, 2016 - 06:21am PT
I will admit I am no Civil war scholar, but it would make sense that since they are in the South, they may have sympathies towards the south-side of that war. Could you blame a Native American wishing that they would have won the war against our precious manifest destiny? Oh I know totally different circumstances, we treated them so fairly and gave them some great land out in the desert. And the Civil War was solely fought to abolish slavery so I am the worst sort of bigot to even question what the history book recounts as true. Honestly, it may be that I relate too much to Edward Abbey and was inspired by Thoreau at an early age, and just could not shake thinking for myself and questioning authority and ideas. Try to flip off the zealous political evangelical switch in your brain for a moment, scroll through the almost 3000 posts of Donald. How many Trump fans where actually posting? This forum became a place to stereotype, insult and categorize entire states of people as inferior to you. An narcissistic orgy of hating on people you don't know and can't relate to. All in the name of hating Trump, just replace hating trump with loving God and you may have more in common with those southern bigots than you would like to admit.


No, you are clearly not a civil war scholar. Because lost in the whitewashing rationalization of the civil war is the simple, indisputable fact that it was about slavery. And after 150 years of debating this point, I have little patience for butthurt rednecks who defiantly, ignorantly cling to the myth that there was some noble cause for the south: there wasn't. Ignorance is no excuse.

That 38% mentioned in the poll support a treasonous regime. They aren't interested in making "America great," and they certainly don't want progress: they want a return to some idealization of antebellum America where the negro knew his place.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 17, 2016 - 06:29am PT
Correct, Dirt.

The GOP is essentially the Talk Radio Party. The fact that they are goose-stepping towards nominating Trump is easier to understand if you flip through AM Radio on any given day. 24/7 Obama-hating.

Republicans are hell-bent on destroying our democracy. They must be stopped. Now.

Today it would take the political equivalent of the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory that just detected the waves predicted by Einstein to discern any fresh ideas in the black hole that constitutes the GOP. Into that void Trump has strode with all the hubris of one who recognizes weakness when he sees it—and is only too happy to call it out.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/donald-trump-2016-gop-republican-party-213642
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Feb 17, 2016 - 06:43am PT
Trump is a perfect blend of Caligula and Vince McMahon.

Make no mistake, Donald is repulsed by the dipshits that flock to his candidacy but he understands "the mob".

I feel terrible for the unfortunate Trump supporter who has found that, the demands of our society has left them on the sidelines. Trump's hollow promises are so obviously pandering to the masses base insticts- I'd laugh if I thought he didn't have a chance to win.

Caligula was adored by the masses as he ascended to the throne but when he ran out of prisoners at the Circus Maximus, for his amusement, he ordered the first five rows of citizens into the arena to face the hungry lions.



guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 17, 2016 - 09:43am PT
Hahahaha... this is so funny...

JEB! lost his domain name.... the brain trust of the republican elite, forgot to pay the bill.

and The Donald took control.

Donald for the win!!!

winning
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 17, 2016 - 11:03am PT
I love Trump now, saying what needs to be said about W. and the rest of the Neo-conned.
This is just too good to not post


The Trump Heresy on George W. Bush
The Rude Pundit

2/16/2016

At the 1487th Republican debate on Saturday night in some f*#kin' place, South Carolina, the fuzzy combover with a belligerent leprechaun attached to it, Donald Trump, lost his goddamned mind over the presidency of George W. Bush. Asked if he still believed if, as he said in 2008, Bush should have been impeached over the Iraq "war," Trump demurred on the question itself, but used the occasion to continue what he had done at a previous debate: calling "bullshit" on the notion that Bush "kept us safe," using, you know, the worst terrorist attack in United States history as an example of making us particularly unsafe.

Trump committed the greatest heresy of his increasingly heretical run for the Republican nomination. He not only spoke of George W. Bush, but he raked Bush over the coals rather than adhering to a milquetoast, generic "mistakes were made by everyone." Trump laid it all at W.'s motherf*#king feet: "Obviously, the war in Iraq was a big, fat mistake. All right?...The war in Iraq, we spent $2 trillion, thousands of lives, we don't even have it. Iran has taken over Iraq with the second-largest oil reserves in the world. Obviously, it was a mistake...George Bush made a mistake. We can make mistakes. But that one was a beauty. We should have never been in Iraq. We have destabilized the Middle East."

And there it is, the thing that Democrats are regularly excoriated for saying, that the United States bears responsibility for the clusterf*#k that is the Middle East, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Now, yeah, you can say that it pains you to agree with Donald Trump, but you can turn that around and say that Trump is agreeing with the critiques from the Left (leaving out his incredibly destabilizing desire to "take the oil"). It was f*#kin' beautiful because the filthy f*#kin' secret that Republicans want to keep repressed in the minds of their base is that George W. Bush f*#ked the country up, f*#ked it up like a group of drunk Manchester United thugs catching a single Liverpool fan in an alley.

Republicans have spent the last seven years trying to erase Bush from voters' memories. They've convinced their base that whatever anger they have about the state of the nation, President Obama should bear the blame (although that's like blaming the plumber for your leak that's flooding the house). Now, Trump wasn't trying to say that Obama shouldn't have Republicans' idiot anger directed at him. But he was bringing Bush back into the equation, ostensibly to discredit Jeb and the rest of the GOP establishment. When Jeb said that his brother built "a security apparatus to keep us safe," Trump wrecked him with "The World Trade Center came down during your brother's reign, remember that...That's not keeping us safe."

Marco Rubio tried to jump in and say that he was glad Al Gore wasn't president on 9/11/01, which should have been immediately followed up with the question, "Do you really think a President Gore would have invaded Iraq?" Instead, Trump went totally Godzilla on the whole proceeding, taking a giant sh#t on Tokyo while burning down everything around him with his nuclear breath: "How did he keep us safe when the World Trade Center -- the World -- excuse me. I lost hundreds of friends. The World Trade Center came down during the reign of George Bush. He kept us safe? That is not safe. That is not safe, Marco. That is not safe...And George Bush-- by the way, George Bush had the chance, also, and he didn't listen to the advice of his CIA."

Prior to that, Trump uttered the gravest heresy of all: he accused George W. Bush of war crimes. "They lied. They said there were weapons of mass destruction, there were none. And they knew there were none. There were no weapons of mass destruction," Trump said as he watched Tokyo go up in flames. It's this part of his rant that has made the right-wing punditocracy lose their goddamned minds. He's a 9/11 truther, says torture apologist and Bush ball washer Marc Thiessen. How dare he say Bush was responsible for making us unsafe on 9/11, says some f*#king piece of sh#t from the National Review. (Trump did pull back a little on Monday, saying he "didn't know" for sure if Bush lied.)

What Trump knows is that not only would his voters not abandon him, but that he alone was saying what they sincerely believe about the Bush administration but have been silenced by the GOP from saying it. The post-debate polls have showed no change in Trump's numbers. He is going to trounce everyone in South Carolina.

While Trump is still a frightening prospect who truly has no chance of winning on his platform of rank xenophobia and absolutely no concrete plans, his purpose in this race is clarifying. He is forcing the GOP into a reckoning with its most poisonous beliefs and with its suppressed past. It's about f*#king time someone did, even if that someone is a gluttonous ogre who is the embodiment of the ugly depravity of capitalism.

Meanwhile, the ghostly figure of George W. Bush is campaigning for Jeb, and he looks for all the world like a man who is so lost that his soul is already damned and he's just waiting for his body to finally give out.

 See more at: http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/#sthash.2kDCiDAT.dpuf


I love him exposing the evil underbelly of the conservatives, but doesn't mean I will ever vote for him
dirtbag

climber
Feb 17, 2016 - 12:22pm PT
Couch, not to put words in his mouth, but no he wouldn't. Craig and I have said many times that the parties flipped starting with the New Deal and accelerating duribg the 60s and 70s (i.e., the Southern Strategy). The liberal republicans abandoned the party and became democrats, and the old southern conservative segregationists abandoned the Democratic Party and became republicans. This is basic political history 101, which Craig has posted
often.
Camahoo

Trad climber
Pine Ridge
Feb 17, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Feb 17, 2016 - 01:17pm PT

How do you trump supporters expect him to work with congress when he says this about a senator from his own party (Lindsay Graham)?


“He’s one of the dumbest human beings I’ve ever seen,” Trump said.

I talk like that, but I'm a dirtbag, not a leading candidate for president. I realize that being un-PC is "in" nowadays, but applying a basic insult filter on your mouth is not a matter of being PC, it's a basic life skill.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/trump-lindsay-graham-insults-219374
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 17, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
How do you trump supporters expect him to work with congress when he says this about a senator from his own party (Lindsay Graham)?


Dirt.... Lindsay is a stupid, tool, really.... and I think Donald is doing the right thing calling out all of those do-nothing except talk, Congress folks....

dirtbag

climber
Feb 17, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
Stupid or not, trump still needs to work with him if he wants his agenda to pass. He insulted McCain too, another powerful senator he would need to work with.

If there is an advantage for a president in insulting powerful senators, I don't see it. This is why Cruz would have problems as president.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 17, 2016 - 03:37pm PT
He insulted McCain too,
dirtbag you call NOT listening to ur Generals an INSULT.. damn dude..
dirtbag

climber
Feb 17, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
Pyro: At the beginning of the campaign Trump said:

He’s not a war hero,” said Trump. “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”

The remarks, which came after days of back-and-forth between McCain and Trump, were met with scattered boos.

McCain, a former Navy pilot, spent roughly five-and-half years in a notorious North Vietnamese prison known as the “Hanoi Hilton,” where he was repeatedly tortured. He spent two of those years in solitary confinement.

At a press availability following his remarks, Trump denied saying that McCain isn’t a war hero and said, “If somebody’s a prisoner, I consider them a war hero.”

He also continued his attacks on the Arizona senator, saying, “I think John McCain’s done very little for the veterans. I’m very disappointed in John McCain.”

Trump received four student deferments from military service between 1964 and 1968. In Ames, he told reporters another medical deferment he received after graduating was for a bone spur in his foot. When asked which foot, Trump told reporters to look up the records.

In a follow-up statement sent to reporters, Trump again declined to apologize, calling McCain “yet another all talk, no action politician who spends too much time on television and not enough time doing his job.”

Again, if this is part of some brilliant strategy to woo and persuade senators in his own party to enact his agenda, I don't see it.

Edit: of course, this tendency goes beyond senators. He has insulted so many people, how can anyone expect him to bring people together to solve common problems?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 17, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
of course, this tendency goes beyond senators. He has insulted so many people, how can anyone expect him to bring people together to solve common problems?

Fear and Force.... LBJ was an effective president (IMHO) he had a lot of IOU's in his pocket to use as bargaining chips.

I don't think Donald would hesitate for a second before calling out someone for not working, for lying to others in a bargaining session. These are the chips in 2016 that hopefully might be effective.

And that scares the SH%T out of those in power.... and that is a good thing.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 17, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
Actually, it scares the sh#t out of those out of power even more: those people, more than senators, have born the brunt of his tirades. And telling someone they are stupid isn't calling someone out, it's calling someone names.

"Hi, you're stupid. Now let's work on a bill together."
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 17, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
So if the bottom falls out:http://trending-newz.com/this-gorgeous-canadian-island-is-offering-refuge-to-americans-if-trump-wins/
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 18, 2016 - 08:33am PT
^^^ i' m worried about all the repubs except for Kasich.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Feb 18, 2016 - 08:43am PT
Dirtbag is right. I think Trump supporters are overestimating what "good" Trump can get accomplished as president after he has alienated all of congress.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 18, 2016 - 10:59am PT
This website contains a thorough list of reasons to vote for trump.

It's worth reading.

http://www.reasonstovotetrump.com



Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Feb 18, 2016 - 11:42am PT
"A person who only thinks about building walls, wherever they are, and not in building bridges, is not Christian," the pope said, speaking in Italian. "That is not part of the gospel."
-- Pope Francis

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-pope-on-trump-wall-20160218-story.html
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 18, 2016 - 12:03pm PT
This website contains a thorough list of reasons to vote for trump.

It's worth reading.

http://www.reasonstovotetrump.com

Excellent!

John
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 18, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
Very thorough.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 18, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
The joke's on all the "hell Yeah" Trump supporters. How any follower of the Pope could have missed the fact he is suggesting Trump is not the man for the job, I don't know. Of course, people have their own minds, and have gone against a Pope's opinion before.

As people whose authority far supercede's any that Trump can wangle subtly wag their heads "no," those previously stalwart supporters are going to have to come up with reasons to explain why they changed their minds(beyond something like "I just don't know what I was thinking....maybe his waving toupee had me hypnotized).

It seems that his insane popularity will be waning soon, I think, but if he can keep the momentum going and win the nomination, I predict a very somber run-up to the November election.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 18, 2016 - 06:11pm PT

It seems that his insane popularity will be waning soon, I think, but if he can keep the momentum going and win the nomination, I predict a very somber run-up to the November election.
He is a media whore. If the media would stop covering him, he would go away.
Notice how the press never questions him about his proposed policies?
AllRatingsMatter..
Norton

Social climber
Feb 18, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
Donald's popularity is confined to some 30% of the Republican base, that's all

polls show in a general election he would lose to Sanders, a Jewish Atheist Socialist

and very likely hand the US Senate back to the Democrats with down ticket voting

Donald, ain't going anywhere after becoming the Republican nominee....

we are witnessing in real time the downward death spiral of the national Republican Party
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 18, 2016 - 06:57pm PT
we are witnessing in real time the downward death spiral of the national Republican Party

It's 2006 all over again.

Or was it 2010?

Or 2014?

Number 9... number 9... number 9....
Norton

Social climber
Feb 18, 2016 - 07:02pm PT
Edward

if your point is to post that Republicans have lost the Presidential popular vote in
five of last six elections, and lost the last two elections by modern day landslides
in the Electoral College, then you have supported that data nicely
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 18, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
THE POPE IS A COMMUNIST

ALL OF CHRISTIANITY IS LOST

VOTE FOR TRUMP

HE WILL FIX IT

AND MAKE US ALL RICH

AND BUY US A PONY
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 18, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
Door to Vatican City is always open. Strolled through last summer.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Feb 18, 2016 - 07:53pm PT


Door to Vatican City is always open. Strolled through last summer.

But what about those guys dressed up like jesters??? Uh? Weird I think.


Susan
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Feb 18, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
Yeah, well, a judge has actually, according to ABC and CNN, agreed to hear a case as to whether Senor Cruz is eligible to be president. From MSNBC::

"A judge in Cook County Circuit Court will hear testimony Friday in a lawsuit filed by an Illinois voter that alleges Republican presidential hopeful Ted Cruz should not be allowed to run for president, CNN and ABC are reporting."

Hahahaha. Obama, who was born in Hawaii (an actual American state) of an American mother ..................not so much, according to certain unnamed Repug persons and Tea Party Asshats.

I've held for a long time (many. many years, as it applied to me and I wanted to be president) that an American born abroad, if registered with the American embassy of that country, is a 'natural born' citizen. I've suggest that Cruz, if not registered as an American born abroad soon after his birth, is not a 'natural born' citizen and is not eligible to be president. Cruz seems to have been late in the game, renouncing his Canadian (sorry) citizenship in 2014.

Popcorn time. I hope.

Edited to add that Winston Churchill, Prime Minster of our beloved European partner in WW2, a certain 'England', was the son of an American citizen (his mother ala Cruz) and would thus, according to current Cruz theory, have been eligible to not only be the English Prime Minister, but also President of the United States at the same time.

Really, you can't make this sh#t up.
John M

climber
Feb 18, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
Trump says its disgraceful for a religious leader to question a persons faith. mercy.. thats part of what they should be doing. some people are so stuck in blindness that you have to question them.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 19, 2016 - 07:00am PT
Trump says its disgraceful for a religious leader to question a persons faith. mercy.. thats part of what they should be doing. some people are so stuck in blindness that you have to question them.
So you think the Church needs to be more judgmental? I didn't see that one coming!
dirtbag

climber
Feb 19, 2016 - 07:11am PT
How can Ted Cruz be an Evangelical Christian when he lies so much and is so dishonest?

Donald Trump, last week.

Lol
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 19, 2016 - 07:25am PT
Any self-professed Christian who is an ardent Trump supporter only confirms the hypocrisy and delusion that is Christianity itself.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 19, 2016 - 08:57am PT
Uh, How about the WALL around Vatican City?

well, about (those segments of) that wall:
“It isn’t all surrounded by walls, and it’s not like you need a separate visa or a passport to enter,” he said. “You wouldn’t know, almost, when you even entered Vatican City. There is a white line painted on the ground in St. Peter’s Square, but that kind of thing is not obvious everywhere.”

There are, to be sure, formidable walls in Vatican City, and much of of the site, including the gardens and the modest guesthouse that is home to Francis, is set behind them. But the walls do not entirely enclose the city-state, and in the modern era they are not meant to, historians said.

“Anybody can walk into St. Peter’s Square — that’s the whole point of it,” said Dr. Mannion. “It was designed to be welcoming and to draw people in like two open arms, to draw them into the heart of the church.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/20/world/europe/in-defense-of-trump-some-point-wrongly-to-vatican-walls.html?_r=0
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 19, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
worth the read. swaying my "vote"
http://www.reasonstovotetrump.com/
John M

climber
Feb 19, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
So you think the Church needs to be more judgmental? I didn't see that one coming!

being judgmental is different from judging righteously. Being Judgmental is a carnal mind, lower ego thing, whereas judging righteously must be Holy Spirit led and not come from the lower mind. As you judge, so shall you be judged, so judge righteously. So yes, we do judge. To love someone means that we don't pretend everything is okay, if its not.

eally look forward to the day when the United States can shed the 'bbbbbut he's not a christian!' bullsh#t. I don't give a tinker's dam what the pope thinks about Donald Trump, frankly.


My problem with Trump is that he is trying to fool people into believing that he is a believer. He spoke at a Christian college and tried to teach the bible. It was grossly pathetic and showed his overblown ego for thinking that he could teach the Bible. The problem is that many people are able to be fooled and thus its up to the spiritual leaders to call him out for his pretend Christianity. Christianity isn't something that you just pretend, its suppose to be something that a person lives. There is a verse in the Bible that says that some in their final day will ask to be let into heaven and they will say, "but God, I professed you". And God will reply " I knew you not". Its up to spiritual leaders to speak up and to not allow people to fool themselves or others. Its not the spiritual leaders place to make the final judgment, but it is up to them to speak up against hypocrisy and to help keep people from fooling themselves.

There is so many problems that are created when spiritual leaders do not speak up. Plus there are currently many false teachings.. The whole "unconditional love" teaching is one such false teaching. God isn't unconditional love. God is Love. This teaching on unconditional love has led to spiritual leaders not leading and not speaking up, which is why I am so grateful that the pope spoke up. It says more about him, then necessarily it does Trump. It says that he has moral character.

Any self-professed Christian who is an ardent Trump supporter only confirms the hypocrisy and delusion that is Christianity itself.

I don't believe that the belief in Christ, which is what Christianity is supposed to be is the same as its people, but yes, it would in my opinion be a form of hypocrisy to support someone like Trump by pretending that he is a Christian. But people want to be fooled, because they don't want to look at the beam in their own eye. If they had to question Trumps profession of faith, then they would also have to take at look at their own faith, and many people don't want to do that.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 19, 2016 - 01:58pm PT
yeah, John. The Bible. Second best book to "Art of the Deal". I'm in no ways a christian or a believer but that was just f-ing pathetic to witness. I think it's called respect. No, I know it is. dou.chenozzel apparently doesn't.

On the flip side I'm not sure how much of a believer Mr. Sanders is but I can say that when he was essentially asked the question he did a pretty good job with his answer. He nailed it with his "spirituality" answer. Never said he believed but also placated many in my observation.

And just compare the two speeches at Liberty. Sanders comes out way on top which is not something you'd expect.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 19, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
Trump is that loud-mouthed as#@&%e that all of us knew in high school, the kind of guy that made us happy to graduate and leave.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 20, 2016 - 06:06pm PT
Hell of a week for Trump.

He set The Pope straight on Wednesday, then he wins the primary election in whatever state they're in tonight.

“We’re voting with our middle finger”

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-trump-south-carolina-20160216-story.html
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 20, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 20, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
Trump is that loud-mouthed as#@&%e that all of us knew in high school, the kind of guy that made us happy to graduate and leave.
No he was the guy that worked harder than you, was smarter than you, became a billionaire numerous times and probably #&*$# your prom date. Everyone loves to hate on a successful person
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 20, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
Yeah, that's right.

Nailed it.

GO TRUMP!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Feb 20, 2016 - 07:20pm PT

Trump is a jerk, still stuck in high-school mode. The producers of Back to the Future modeled Biff the Bully after Trump.


I don't like to fight the Pope. I don't like to fight. I don't think it was a fight. No, not really. I think it was a situation, there was some talk, not really a fight. I don't think the Pope wanted to fight me. He said some things that weren't very nice. I said some very, very nice things about him. I don't think it was what you could call a fight. We weren't really fighting. It was mostly just some talk. He started it, with what he said about me. It wasn't really a fight. No.


The last guy to fight the Pope was Henry VIII of England.


I can see history repeating itself:


Trump gives the Pope the heave-ho because he won't allow Trump to marry the woman of his dreams.

Trump starts his own Church of Manhattan.

Trump chops off his third wife's head.

Trump marries his own daughter.


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 20, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 20, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
Oh come on the pope is saying anything he can, to make the church popular again. Appealing to the weakness of the masses, unfortunately for him that ship sailed 100 years ago.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 20, 2016 - 07:32pm PT
Racists, bigots, birthers, sexists....yup, they got their guy.

Three-fourths of Republicans participating in Saturday’s South Carolina GOP primary say they support presidential hopeful Donald Trump’s proposal to ban all Muslims from entering the U.S., according to an exit poll.

A CBS News exit poll of Palmetto State primary voters found that 75 percent said they support Trump’s proposal, while 23 percent said they oppose it.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 20, 2016 - 07:34pm PT

Hillary beats Donald by over 10 million popular votes and over 100 Electoral Votes

Church is already out, go home and come back next January, no drama
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 20, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
Racists, bigots, birthers, sexists

Really petty name calling, grow up and don't rely on insults to prove your point.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 20, 2016 - 07:41pm PT
Name calling? Just the facts.

Oh you mean just because he says stuff like this?

Donald J. Trump
Donald J. Trump – Verified account ‏@realDonaldTrump

I wonder if President Obama would have attended the funeral of Justice Scalia if it were held in a Mosque? Very sad that he did not go!

Can't imagine who he's trying to appeal to.

The President is a Christian, right? Born in Hawaii?
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 20, 2016 - 08:03pm PT
Hillary beats Donald by over 10 million popular votes and over 100 Electoral Votes
Way overestimating Hillary and underestimating Trump. The majority of people don't trust Hillary(reason why Bernie is popular) and the shadow of bill hanging over her. Dynasties are difficult to achieve. If I was a Democrat a would be little more nervous than you let on.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 20, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
I'm successful.

I hate him.

Chewybacca

Trad climber
Kelly Morgan, Whitefish MT
Feb 20, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
Dynasties mean nothing to me. I vote for who I think will do the best job, not for who a person is related to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Hillary. But her last name has absolutely no influence on my opinion of her.

If it comes down to Clinton vs Trump, I will pinch my nose and vote for Clinton. Trumps xenophobia is unacceptable to me.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 20, 2016 - 09:00pm PT
The election season has always bothered me with the candidates saying what their majority needs to hear to get the votes. I agree with you regarding Trumps xenophobia. ISIS is a main debate issue and in my opinion a global threat. I hope Trump is being over the top to key in on voters fear of a rising Jihad. I also hate that they all have to be pawns in one way or other. Trump certainly puts up the biggest fight against it, but is still guilty. I like that Trump is the only candidate willing to consider working together with Russia. Another cold war will be a terrible situation, globally. Looking at Trumps business portfolio he has little fear dealing with international opportunities.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Feb 20, 2016 - 09:15pm PT
Trump is not detestable because he is successful. He is detestable because he is a boorish narcissist who has been a pain in the ass for a lot of people for many decades.

If you google Trump and almost any other word, you will find some of the hundreds of skeletons he has in his gold-plated closet. His wealth is directly related to how many people he has burned.

Not shown on the Google results are the thousands of people he has ripped off with the rigged games in his casinos. Al Capone and Lucky Luciano were also gambling moguls. Would you vote for them?

The only reason Trump's gambling business was legal is that Atlantic City wanted to move in on the illegal gambling rackets, and get some of that cash for itself. It is still a rip-off, with rigged games that in the long run give the player no chance of coming out ahead. If you somehow figure out how to win, the casino bans you for life. It's legalized theft.

That is how Trump made his $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ - - - ripping people off.
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Feb 20, 2016 - 09:27pm PT
Trump a successful businessman? Yeah right.

His rich father gave him a bundle to start with. He could have made at least as much by investing in a stock index fund...

How many of his casinos have failed and businesses have gone bankrupt?

Yes, politics in this country are screwed up. And Hillary isn't particularly exciting. But it dumbfounds me that anyone that thinks that a rude, loudmouth loser like Trump is the answer.
Jorroh

climber
Feb 20, 2016 - 10:15pm PT
The Scottish are usually pretty proud of their famous sons ... not Trump though, he's absolutely hated in Scotland, and the reasons provide a pretty good window into the sort of person he is.

Having said that, I'm becoming more and more convinced that he's at least partly Trojan Horse. And if thats true then he's certainly been successful at doing huge, maybe even catastrophic damage to the Republican party.....just goes to show...no-ones all bad.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Feb 21, 2016 - 04:04am PT
WVB,

The wayward genii of that time could have saved us.
















Warren told me that Chuck was a genius - - - could'a been a nuclear scientist . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
steveA

Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
Feb 21, 2016 - 06:04am PT
Jorroh,

Well said.

I have NEVER posted on a politard thread, but I hate Trump so much I can't help myself. I'm sure the majority of Europeans are appalled that he is even in the race!

If he ever wins this race-which I doubt the whole planet will suffer. This guy cannot stop putting his foot in his mouth and is appallingly undiplomatic.

He is doing one hell of a good job bringing the Republican party down.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Feb 21, 2016 - 06:19am PT
I'm becoming more and more convinced that he's at least partly Trojan Horse.


Trump is certainly a dick.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 21, 2016 - 06:23am PT
Even our bestest friends, the British, are appalled, having voted recently (unsuccessfully) to ban him from Britain for his bigoted views.

He'd be the first president since, I dunno, revolutionaries Thomas Jefferson or John Adams, maybe, to earn such from the British.
Jorroh

climber
Feb 21, 2016 - 07:54am PT
Bigoted Americans are 10 a penny, thats not why he's hated over there, in Scotland at least.... its much more about some shady real estate dealings which did real harm to Scotland.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 21, 2016 - 08:31am PT
In this case, it was because of his bigotry.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 21, 2016 - 08:43am PT
In this day and age in American politics (in the world?), charisma trumps truth.

A sad reality, all too frequently seen.
Jorroh

climber
Feb 21, 2016 - 09:19am PT
http://billmoyers.com/story/how-scotland-got-trumped/

I've been spending the summers in Scotland most recent years and can say for certain that this affair left a very bad taste in the mouths of Scottish people with regards to Trump. It wasn't just the actual damage to the dunes (a european heritage site I believe).
The scots have a very strong sense of social justice and many of the aspects of this affair (the use of eminent domain...influence of public institutions such as local councils, police, planning commissions etc. ) were utterly offensive to many.

There's no doubt that Trumps racist comments play very poorly in the UK and provided a nice pretext for the petition... but the groundwork had been laid long before he was a presidential candidate.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Feb 21, 2016 - 12:04pm PT
Here is another link to sordid tales of Trump, including what he did in Scotland:

Trump 2016: A Tale of Pure Sordidness

tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 21, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 21, 2016 - 09:02pm PT
I really think he will our next President. It is like a wildfire, for some unexplainable reason the right conditions always exist in the wrong time. It is like nature embraces the chaos, as do people in strange ways are drawn to forces that don't make sense. I am willing to bet he will have a significant votes in both Hispanic and African Americans, despite all the bigotry claims against him. I do not think he has a chance with female voters, unless maybe Melania is a powerful speaker, which you never know, maybe? It may not even be close. It may turn out that Hillary is the Democrats trojan horse, there is something about her that is very dis-likable, not to mention nobody trusts her.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 21, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
You are delusional - in fact, anyone supporting him is delusional. The best you can say about him is he is the direct result of a fifty year gop campaign of increasingly shrill hate, fear and anti-government rhetoric. They've entirely brought it upon themselves - their monster has finally turned on its masters.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 22, 2016 - 07:49am PT
Seventy percent of republicans dislike trump, but will they acquiesce and vote for him anyway, just to have a repub in the wh?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 22, 2016 - 07:59am PT
I do not think he has a chance with female voters, unless maybe Melania is a powerful speaker, which you never know, maybe?

I'm sure Trumps women will support him..


LIBERALS heads are going to blow!
Norton

Social climber
Feb 22, 2016 - 08:12am PT
Does your head hurts a lot of the time, Pyro?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 22, 2016 - 08:17am PT
Moderate John Kasich Just Defunded Planned Parenthood In Ohio

The bill will strip $1.3 million that was destined for HIV testing.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-kasich-planned-parenthood-ohio_us_56ca1404e4b0928f5a6c4f1b?utm_hp_ref=politics


John Kasich, Not a Moderate
He's just as extreme as Rubio, he just doesn't say it as loud
He hasn't done anything good for his state of Ohio
dirtbag

climber
Feb 22, 2016 - 08:54am PT
No he is not moderate. It just shows how far the Republican Party has veered that he is now considered a moderate. He did two noteworthy, non conservative things: his state did not reject Obamacare subsidies, and he said deporting 11 million people was ridiculous. Other than, 100% conservative.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 22, 2016 - 09:27am PT
What policy proposals do you trump supporters favor?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 22, 2016 - 09:33am PT
Chicks for Free!!
A free Wall to keep those brown people out
The Military going from house to house looking for brown people to deport
Keeping the Muslims out

Not having religious tests! Trump is a Good Christian

There will be so much winning, that we will get tired of it.

Once all the brown people are gone, we will have plenty of jobs.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 22, 2016 - 09:35am PT
Trump also thinks his daughter is hot.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 22, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
Ivanka is hot!
dirtbag

climber
Feb 23, 2016 - 07:52am PT
Another day, another protestor Donald would like to punch.

Trump, the great defender of the first amendment.

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/23/11098598/trump-wants-to-punch-protesters
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 23, 2016 - 08:57am PT
Looks like he's got the media in his pocket.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/leaked-audio-catches-mika-and-joe-chatting-with-trump-during-break-nothing-too-hard-mika/
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 23, 2016 - 09:00am PT
Looks a little like Cartman's butt
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 23, 2016 - 12:04pm PT
I still insist Trump is a dirty trick of the Democrats. According to polls, half of Republicans hate him. He has no chance of winning the Presidency, and his nomination would almost certainly guaranty a Senate with a majority of Democrats. I wouldn't be surprised if he dropped out a week before the election and told everyone to vote for Hillary because the Republicans were dumb enough to vote for him.

The polls also show his greatest support among Republicans is among their youngest voters, and the greatest support for Bernie is among the Democrats' youngest voters, causing one Op-Ed column to read "The Young And The Clueless."

To me, the current results show that the Democrats care more about winning and governing, while the Republicans care more about whining. And here I thought mine was the party of maturity.

Canada looks better and better, if they'd be willing to let in a convicted criminal like me.

John
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Feb 23, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
And here I thought mine was the party of maturity.

John, that ended some time ago!
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 23, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
That's what democrats said about Ronald Reagan. No way he could win... With
Trump as President we will finally get the change that Obama has been promising for too long.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Feb 23, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
Well a different kind of change, but certainly change
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 23, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
http://www.nationofchange.org/news/2016/02/21/heres-how-trump-will-go-down-in-flames-in-the-general-election/
dirtbag

climber
Feb 23, 2016 - 12:13pm PT


John, I hear what you are saying about Trump being a dem plant. I still think his campaign is some kind of elaborate piece of performance art.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 23, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
Trump will make America great again. It will be beautiful and amazing. You'll see!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 23, 2016 - 01:10pm PT
Here's your Party Now John

The Republican Party is now America’s largest hate group

Led by Donald Trump, the GOP has abandoned its traditional dog whistles in favor of a more overt approach to racism

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/27/the_republican_party_is_now_americas_largest_hate_group/

The Southern Poverty Law Center did warn that certain GOP officials have exposed these extreme opinions of these hate groups to a wider audience:

The demonization of Muslims, Latinos, immigrants and others became commonplace in 2015. Presidential candidate Donald Trump made headlines with a call for a temporary ban on Muslim immigration and his description of Mexican immigrants as rapists and drug dealers. He even cited a bogus “poll” by the Center for Security Policy that falsely claimed that a quarter of American Muslims support violent jihadists such as the members of the Islamic State.

The Center for Security Policy is one of two anti-Muslim groups listed as hate groups for the first time in this year’s report. The other is ACT! for America.

While the Southern Poverty Law Center didn't call the GOP a hate group, they did say that some of the extreme views of hate groups have been reiterated by certain members of the Republican Party and that extremism is on the rise, creating an atmosphere of polarization that may be unmatched since the late 1960s.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 23, 2016 - 09:06pm PT
Looks like the White Nationalist Party has their fuhrer, um, nominee.
mynameismud

climber
backseat
Feb 23, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
Yep, Trump is a secret Obama's agent. Good disguise, though!

Moose

for whatever reason this made me laugh kind of hard.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Feb 23, 2016 - 09:23pm PT
Well now!

I'm voting for "The Donald" in Idaho's March 8th. Republican primary for one-reason only. He's the only Republican candidate that didn't pander to the Republican Bundy-nuts that want to grab OUR Federal lands.

LAS VEGAS, NV — Ahead of Tuesday night’s Republican caucuses, Sen. Ted Cruz is attempting to win over Nevada voters by channeling the state’s recently indicted rogue rancher and Oregon occupation instigator Cliven Bundy.

“Eighty percent of the state of Nevada is owned by the federal government. That is going to end,” he told hundreds of supporters in Henderson on Sunday night, standing in front of a banner depicting a mountain range with bold red letters reading, ‘RETURN OUR LAND.’

“The land of Nevada needs to be owned by the state of Nevada,” Cruz told the crowd, “or even better, the people of Nevada.”

On Monday, when he delivered the same speech to a crowd of wealthy retirees in the posh suburb of Summerlin, Las Vegas resident Vinny Spotleson stood up and challenged him, saying that most Nevadans, including a majority of Republicans, want public land to stay public. “Trump is the only candidate to come out against privatizing public land, and he’s expected to win here,” he noted. “And even though Cruz has distanced himself from Cliven Bundy, he continues to have the same political objectives as Cliven Bundy, to take all the land away from the public and put it in private hands. When they talk about ‘opening up’ federal land, they’re not talking about everyone being able to enjoy the outdoors. It’s because they want to sell it off to oil drilling and fracking and mining. Just look at what happened in Cruz’s own state of Texas, where so much land has been auctioned off and they’re drilling all over. We don’t want to see that here.”

Spotleson, who used to work for the Sierra Club and is currently running for the Nevada State Assembly, said he fears Cruz’s proposal would threaten everything he values about his home state.

Spotleson is a Democrat, but Nevada Republicans also told ThinkProgress they take issue with Cruz’s call for land privatization, and are “embarrassed” by the association with the Bundys’ cause.
The federal government doesn’t own the property, they manage it for the rest of us.

Las Vegas resident Ralph Morales, who owns a cattle ranch in Alamo, Nevada, said he was frustrated with Cruz for “not telling the truth.”
“The reality is that the federal government doesn’t own the property, they manage it for the rest of us, because we ask them to. It’s called the Bureau of Land Management,” he stressed. “Believe it or not, they’re doing us a favor. We’re talking about a lot of vast lands. I’m not going to buy it. I sure as hell don’t want to. So it just sits there, and what do we do with it? Do we give it to the states? No. We already have a big enough budget as it is. We don’t have enough money to take care of a lot of open land.”

Peering out from under the wide brim of a black cowboy hat, Morales said he appreciates that under current law, any time the federal government wants to sell off a piece of land, “they actually have to ask the American people and Congress.” While he agrees with the Bundys’ call for cattle ranchers to have more grazing rights on federal land, he says the family that participated in two armed standoffs with the federal government “were wrong in what they did.”

Morales plans to caucus on Tuesday night for Trump, who has said he wants to “keep the lands great,” adding, “I don’t think it’s something that should be sold.” Cruz has gone after Trump in TV ads and on Twitter in the lead-up to the caucuses, saying, “Donald Trump wants to keep big government in charge. That’s ridiculous.”

Cruz has also aligned himself with Nevada Assembly member Michele Fiore, a major supporter of the Bundys’ armed occupations who has introduced a bill to allow Nevada to seize federal lands. Though Cruz has denounced the Bundys’ past racist remarks and called for them to “stand down” in Oregon, Fiore remains a key member of his campaign’s Nevada leadership team.
But even die-hard Cruz supporters, like Henderson resident Lisa, who declined to give her last name, said they were less than enthusiastic about his connection with the Bundys.

“It’s been a little bit embarrassing when people back East have asked me if I agree with those people, because I’m not so sure I do,” she said. Describing herself as “a little bit neutral” on the federal land issue, Lisa told ThinkProgress, “I was surprised when I moved here that 80 percent of the land in Nevada is owned by the federal government, but there may be good reasons for that.”

One of those reasons, critics argue, is that privatizing Nevada’s vast public lands would deal a severe blow to the state’s economy. Outdoor recreation in Nevada, which relies almost exclusively on access to national public lands, contributes an estimated $14.9 billion in consumer spending every year and supports 148,000 jobs in the state.

Hunters and fishers worry too that plans to seize federal land would lock them out of the habitats they can currently access. “These game-rich areas that currently belong to all of us will be developed or sold to large corporations, degrading critical habitat and locking out millions of sportsmen,” the magazine Field and Stream cautioned last year. “I can’t help but think that if Theodore Roosevelt could see the current scam being peddled to American sportsmen he’d be fighting mad.”

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/02/23/3752319/cruz-bundys-nevada/
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 23, 2016 - 09:29pm PT
Cosmic, in between sips of champagne could you write a few sentences about EXACTLY how Mexico is going to pay for that big wall?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 23, 2016 - 09:30pm PT
I still insist Trump is a dirty trick of the Democrats.

Trump is the unavoidable darwinian result of a campaign of hate, fear and bigotry which has been the mainstay of gop politics for a half a century. They finally whipped their base to the fringe right with hysteria and, after eating all their own 'moderates', the monster has turned on them and eaten the gop establishment whole. Now they trying to pick which of the three stooges of their own making makes them wretch the least while eyeing the prospect of a troll stealing their primary out from under them.

They deserve every single minute of it. Hopefully they'll have Karl Rove cover the convention fight and November election at Fox, it was so satisfying last time...

Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Feb 23, 2016 - 09:43pm PT
How strange. Trump wins in the Republican Nevada Caucuses & that is good for OUR continued shared ownership of OUR Public lands.

Of course, I'm just thinking of Idaho, where whatever you think, this state always votes for a Republican for President.

I'm jest picking the least insane Republican candidate that might win the nomination.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 23, 2016 - 09:46pm PT

Years of rightwing conspiracy theories turn inward...just loving it!!!

Now that the cat's out of the bag, I'm thinking some serious gop cannibalism will likely break out by Super Tuesday.


Bernie and Hill should just take a long vacation until after the GOP convention...

Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Feb 23, 2016 - 10:56pm PT
After Trump wins in November, I'm moving to Nicaragua. That's the new cheap place to party after Costa Rica got too expensive. Best to watch the next American Civil War break out from a safe distance. Which States do you think will leave the Union this time?
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
Feb 24, 2016 - 04:16am PT
seen this in the morning new:

Trump seems to have that "revolution" Bermie is expecting,
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Feb 24, 2016 - 04:33am PT
I'm already practicing, "Oh Canada..."
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 24, 2016 - 05:13am PT
Leberals heads are going to EXPLODE..
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Feb 24, 2016 - 05:21am PT
Trump's supporters cheered when he said he wished he could punch protesters in the face, have his goons attack them, and carry them out on stretchers. Trump invoked the "good old days", which I suppose he means 1930's Germany.



Trump also says he is going to emulate China, North Korea and other repressive regimes, by shutting down parts of the internet he doesn't like.

He says shutting off the internet is necessary because the United States is "at war". But, Trump is "at war" with many, many groups and people he doesn't like. Any detractor or "enemy" is going to be targeted.

Trump claims he will get the people in Silicon Valley to gain control over internet access, which is odd, considering the vast majority of people there favor internet freedom, not censorship.

Presumably, Trump's vast concentration camps for illegal aliens will have plenty of room for dissidents and uncooperative internet engineers, too.



Trump says he will shut down parts of the internet if he is elected

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 05:24am PT
pyro posted
Leberals heads are going to EXPLODE..

So you're formerly embracing bigotry and as#@&%ery as core conservative traits?

Trump has a political history that is completely incongruent with the core conservative values that have defined candidates for the last 15-20 years. Trump is basically demonstrating that there are many Republicans who don't care that much about abortion, taxes and family values so long as their sense of national and racial identity is sufficiently placated.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Feb 24, 2016 - 05:40am PT
Donald Trump is the new Hitler and this time next year the nukes will rain down worldwide as his nuclear style diplomacy ushers in world war three.

"I don't know what they will use to fight with in World War three, but they will use rocks to fight world war four."
-Albert Einstein
dirtbag

climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 05:44am PT

Feb 24, 2016 - 05:13am PT
Leberals heads are going to EXPLODE..


Wrong. It's not liberal heads that are exploding. Liberals are quite confident the dem candidate--likely Hillary--can beat him. Conservative politicos heads' are exploding because they believe this too.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Feb 24, 2016 - 05:55am PT
To think an angry selfish prick like Trump could do well for nearly four hundred million people when he has subjegated everyone he's ever known is pretty far fetched, but then, I'd rather be nearsighted than narrow minded.

The true story of his part in all the fallings out in his relationships with ex wives, ex employees, and other people he has sued is protected by a wall of his lawyers and sealed documents. The American people may never see how many backs he's stabbed and walked over until it's too late.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 24, 2016 - 06:14am PT
Anger is a good motivator and Republicans have had 7 years of being whipped into a frenzy by their godheads on the AM radio dial. Add in Fox and a black president who most of them think is a Muslim and you have the perfect environment for a virulent nationalist like Trump.

If you're thinking he can't possibly win the White House, think again. Look at the turnout he's generating. His "stick it to China" schtick appeals to working class white voters - and they can tolerate the bigotry. Sure, his candidacy could generate the same reaction from Democrat's and Independent's looking on in horror...but maybe not. Maybe they won't vote in the numbers you think.

It's time for level-headed people to tone down the anti-Hillary rhetoric. We are in a war for the future of our country.

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 24, 2016 - 06:28am PT
Didn't Bush use lawyers to steal an election ?.
For sure Trump and his army of Lawyers will steal this one.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 24, 2016 - 06:33am PT
He apparently won't need to. There's enough people with hate in their hearts that believe his lies to go around.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Feb 24, 2016 - 06:40am PT
I wish our President, would try and defuse this. It's fueled by a perception among much of the electorate that "Washington is Broken". A meeting with the powers-that-be in Congress, from Both sides of the aisle, would be a good start.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 24, 2016 - 06:54am PT
John, you can't be serious.

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Feb 24, 2016 - 07:01am PT
well, there's the problem, right there. Consensus and discussion, aren't even considered.

Fortunately, either a Trump Presidency or a Clinton Presidency, promises to be less ideological and more pragmatic than the last 16 years.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 24, 2016 - 07:41am PT
I still think that if Sanders does not get the nod, his supporters will not vote for Hillary. They don't see the bigger picture.

Hello President Trump, goodbye US, for me.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 24, 2016 - 07:53am PT
One other thought. Which one of trumps supporters will shoot him when he doesn't get the wall built, doesn't deport Mexicans, and doesn't stop Muslim immigration?
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Feb 24, 2016 - 07:59am PT
He will get the wall built. If he is elected. Even to some sort of financial finagling, that Mexico will pay for it. Here in nyc, we have a long experience with him. He gets things done.

As far as the larger question, it would be unwise to discuss on an open forum.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:02am PT
I wish our President, would try and defuse this. It's fueled by a perception among much of the electorate that "Washington is Broken". A meeting with the powers-that-be in Congress, from Both sides of the aisle, would be a good start


This is NOT a "both sides do it" situation. Just before I tuned to the taco, I read how senator Grassley has not responded to an invitation from the President to discuss the Supreme Court appointment. Wtf? When Obama proposed his budget a couple of weeks ago, Obama staff werent even invited to testify before congress, which is a first.

Yes, I understand that the budget and Supreme Court nominees are non starters . But who is failing to listen to whom here? Who is doing the snubbing here? This type of crap has gotten worse lately, as right wingers up for reelection and fearful of the base are too chicken to bother governing, but it's been going on for years.

Another example from this morning: senator Shelby, the banking committee chair, hasn't held hearings On Obama nominees in months.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/02/24/us/politics/anxious-for-re-election-senator-richard-shelby-refuses-to-act-on-banking-nominations.html


Even to some sort of financial finagling, that Mexico will pay for it.


How? Because he says so?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:04am PT
John posted
I wish our President, would try and defuse this. It's fueled by a perception among much of the electorate that "Washington is Broken". A meeting with the powers-that-be in Congress, from Both sides of the aisle, would be a good start.

You have to not be paying much attention to think this is an option. Republicans are "all in" on this. The best they can do is endorse non-Trump candidates, who are whipping the exact same flames of xenophobia, distrust, nationalism and disillusionment as Trump. McConnell and Ryan know that if they piss off their zealot base they will be without jobs pretty quickly.

Duffield posted
He will get the wall built. If he is elected. Even to some sort of financial finagling, that Mexico will pay for it. Here in nyc, we have a long experience with him. He gets things done.

This is true but not because Trump "gets things done" but for Trump to win there also has to be Republican majorities in both houses of Congress. At best, Dems will filibuster it.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:06am PT
It's time for level-headed people to tone down the anti-Hillary rhetoric. We are in a war for the future of our country.


This!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:08am PT
Wrong. It's not liberal heads that are exploding. Liberals are quite confident the dem candidate--likely Hillary--can beat him

I said LEB and no one got it.. such a serious crowd..
maybe because LIBERALS heads are about to explode...

this is going to be a great show
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:10am PT
We just assumed you didn't know how to spell.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:10am PT
Just like Obama is the smarter version of W., Hillary is the saner version of Trump. Two sides of the same coin.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:10am PT
These are great posts, and say what I want to say, only they say it better:

Anger is a good motivator and Republicans have had 7 years of being whipped into a frenzy by their godheads on the AM radio dial. Add in Fox and a black president who most of them think is a Muslim and you have the perfect environment for a virulent nationalist like Trump.

If you're thinking he can't possibly win the White House, think again. Look at the turnout he's generating. His "stick it to China" schtick appeals to working class white voters - and they can tolerate the bigotry. Sure, his candidacy could generate the same reaction from Democrat's and Independent's looking on in horror...but maybe not. Maybe they won't vote in the numbers you think.
    crankster

And:

The true story of his part in all the fallings out in his relationships with ex wives, ex employees, and other people he has sued is protected by a wall of his lawyers and sealed documents. The American people may never see how many backs he's stabbed and walked over...
    Bushman

And, don't rule this out:

Didn't Bush use lawyers to steal an election ?.
For sure Trump and his army of Lawyers will steal this one.
    Gnome

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:12am PT
Trump may have to leave campaign trail for court appearance for Fraud

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016/02/23/Trump-may-have-to-leave-campaign-trail-for-court-appearance/9171456270740/

EW YORK, Feb. 23 (UPI) -- A class-action lawsuit against Donald Trump over the now defunct Trump University is headed to trial, and Trump is among those slated to testify.

The suit, filed in 2013, claims Trump's school -- now called The Trump Entrepreneur Initiative -- scammed students out of thousands of dollars and never delivered on promises to make them wealthy real estate investors.
There is no trial date yet, but court filings show Trump is scheduled to testify.

Trump has had to sneak away from the campaign trail once already because of the case. On Dec. 10, the day he caused a firestorm for proposing a temporary ban on Muslims entering the United States, he also gave a deposition in the case, according to court records. The deposition remains sealed.

Tarla Makaeff, the lead plaintiff in the case, is attempting to withdraw from the suit because she claims Trump has threatened to destroy her financially for bringing it in the first place.

Schneiderman brought the suit the same year Makaeff did after an investigation into the unaccredited, for-profit school that found "persistent fraudulent, illegal and deceptive conduct." Trump slammed the investigation at the time, even creating a website to combat Schneiderman's allegations.

The civil suit is seeking $40 million in damages from Trump on behalf of 5,000 people across the country who were persuaded to pay exorbitant fees "for a series of expensive courses that did not deliver on their promises."

The New York Times reported the investigation was prompted by several complaints from people who enrolled in Trump University.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:15am PT
WE DON'T LIKE MRS. CLINTON.

When will you partisans stop trying to jam her down our throats?

DMT

It doesn't make one bit of difference what you like. You're going to get either Trump or Clinton--pick your poison.

Curt
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:15am PT
Gary posted
Just like Obama is the smarter version of W., Hillary is the saner version of Trump. Two sides of the same coin.

You're definitely going to need to explain that one.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:32am PT
I will have a hard time justifying to myself remaining in a corporate nazi regime America if Trump is elected. Sad for my adult kids and their families if they cannot be willing to pull up roots and hike over the Alps into Switzerland with Nana and Pop. Also sad for for my employees. Thanks a lot to all you ridiculous puppets, go ahead and look away. And don't forget your mantra, "We didn't ask questions."

-Captain Von Trapp
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:37am PT
WE DON'T LIKE MRS. CLINTON.

When will you partisans stop trying to jam her down our throats?

She really is quite charming. I also think she can get things done, via "Old Girl Network", as well. Circumventing the retarded giant egos in D.C. That said, you don't have to "like" any of them. They won't be sitting at your table for dinner.

The one downside, her career thus far, would suggest she will only do one term. I haven't seen anyone press her on this.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:37am PT

Feb 24, 2016 - 08:07am PT
WE DON'T LIKE MRS. CLINTON.

When will you partisans stop trying to jam her down our throats?

DMT


First, you speak yourself. And supporters of other candidates are just as adamant that their candidate should win. Everyone is "shoving" their own candidate. Your selective outrage is duly noted.

Second, the cold hard fact is that the only way to avert a trump presidency is to vote for Clinton. Sanders cannot beat him. Yes, it sucks to vote against someone instead of for someone, but I didn't write the rules, and it's time to get serious about beating Trump.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:42am PT
WE DON'T LIKE MRS. CLINTON.

When will you partisans stop trying to jam her down our throats?

It's called an election. Nobody is jamming anything down your throat. While you are complaining, Mrs. Clinton is criss-crossing the country making her case to voters from sunup to sundown. Trump flies in for a few rallies and spends his day on Twitter.

I really don't care who you like, to be honest.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:49am PT
Trump.


A Hillary or a Sanders vrs Trump race will be dominated by The Trump drummers
drumming.

If it is. H CLINTON, then all the perceived evils of Bill will be mixed with the big sick, if needed.
That stick is Hillary's exposure, to indictment, and lies she has been accused of telling that she herself didn't refute just last week.

As to A Zoscalist, Sanders, Run, against Trump?
I think the Army of lawyers, Crazy Fundamentalist, anti-Zionist,
and the 'Television opiate' addicted, un-educated, Ill read masses
Will choose the bafoon, who's ten years of "Your Fired" TV exposure trumps
Some old white J guy who's leanings are misrepresented by all those I mentioned.

skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:50am PT
Second, the cold hard fact is that the only way to avert a trump presidency is to vote for Clinton. Sanders cannot beat him.

That is far from a universal opinion at this point. Some recent polls have shown exactly the opposite in fact. This is despite the fact that typical polling has been thrown into disarray and that many of the young voters are next to impossible to reach for polling at this point. Maybe they will figure it out soon.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 24, 2016 - 08:58am PT
So .... when The Donald wins.... I bet $100 to each of you guys who say that you will leave the country.... that you won't.

Deal??

Norton

Social climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:02am PT
no deal guyman

but I will put up $5000 that Trump will NOT win the Presidency

will be you put up the same and say that he will, as you seem to be?

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:06am PT
Question:

I heard on the news this morning that, the Nevada delegates will be split up between the five GOP candidates, as any of them receiving more that 3% of votes gets a share of the delegates.

My question is: What happens to delegates which are assigned to a candidate if that candidate suspends their campaign?

The news story also had someone saying that the only way to stop Trump from winning the nomination, at this point, would be for all but Rubio to suspend their campaigns. The votes are being diluted because they are spread out to so many. the person said.

I doubt there is much chance of any of them stepping down on their own accord, but I wonder if the RNC is trying to find a way to make that happen.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:07am PT
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California

Feb 24, 2016 - 08:32am PT
I will have a hard time justifying to myself remaining in a corporate nazi regime America if Trump is elected. Sad for my adult kids and their families if they cannot be willing to pull up roots and hike over the Alps into Switzerland with Nana and Pop. Also sad for for my employees. Thanks a lot to all you ridiculous puppets, go ahead and look away. And don't forget your mantra, "We didn't ask questions."
Your due your retirement, I wouldn't blame you. I have no such luxury due me.
I will see the demise, of a 'merica, I already barely recognize.
And the confident Rise of a new world order, run by a billionaire Fourth Riech. Anti woman & children, types, with self serving agendas that will pollute, plunder and eventually
Destroy the planet,

I'm not holding my breath for divine or alien intervention either, Sad and scary non survivable
Prospects !


Trump.


A Hillary or a Sanders vrs Trump race will be dominated by The Trump drummers
drumming.

If it is. H CLINTON, then all the perceived evils of Bill will be mixed with the big sick, if needed.
That stick is Hillary's exposure, to indictment, and lies she has been accused of telling that she herself didn't refute just last week.

As to A Zoscalist, Sanders, Run, against Trump?
I think the Army of lawyers, Crazy Fundamentalist, anti-Zionist,
and the 'Television opiate' addicted, un-educated, Ill read masses
Will choose the bafoon, who's ten years of "Your Fired" TV exposure trumps
Some old white J guy who's leanings are misrepresented by all those I mentioned.

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:07am PT
Norton.... no way $5,000 ..... I don't like to bet more than I can afford to loose... but believe me, none of those dudes will leave the country. All that is is cheap internet blowhardness.


Now .... how much to you wish to wager that Hillery is indicted, by the FBI, for not keeping secrets secret?



Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:07am PT
The RNC wants Trump out, Happie-G.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:11am PT
Yes, I know the RNC wants him out. The news story I listened to this morning said the only way to achieve that is to consolidate the candidates down to Trump and one other, and that choice seems to be Rubio, since he has done the best so far.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:11am PT
Norton

no deal guyman

but I will put up $5000 that Trump will NOT win the Presidency

will be you put up the same and say that he will, as you seem to be?

Is this offer to Guyman good for after Trump's appearance in a San Diego court, or only before?

edit: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Trump-University-Class-Action-Lawsuits-Making-Their-Way-Through-Court-in-San-Diego-362729141.html
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:18am PT

So .... when The Donald wins.... I bet $100 to each of you guys who say that you will leave the country.... that you won't.

Deal??

You do know that trump is planning to build a hotel on the Stony Pt. property, don't you?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:20am PT
Is this offer to Guyman good for after his appearance in a San Diego court, or only before?


Don't worry I'm not going to court, unless its for casting a shadow on frog habitat.

This is the most entertaining election EVER....

a TON of the democrats are not happy at all with the "chosen one" and the republican Elite have been told to.... "shove it up your A%#" by a large proportion of the faithful.

I can't wait for what is to come in the next few weeks!

More popcorn please.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:21am PT
You're definitely going to need to explain that one.

There's no real difference in the politics of Obama, Bush, Clinton, and Trump. None of them are going to rock the Wall Street boat. Maybe Obama and Clinton will brush a few crumbs off the table for the teeming masses, but only to keep them docile as cheaply as possible.

Their basic philosophy is all the same.

The economic owning class is always the political ruling class.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:23am PT
I heard that as well, even before NV.

Complicating all of it, is the fact Rubio and Cruz hate each other. Also, Cruz did win in Iowa. So neither of them will get out at this point. Again, it is always about them and their egos, than about the country, their party, or the people.

I think there will be a significant crossover vote. I also agree with some of the above. Sanders, would be more likely to pick up Republican and Republican leaning Democrats votes over Hillary. But it's obvious, the Democrat crossover to Trump, has yet to be measured. My guess is, it will be not inconsiderable.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:25am PT
Sorry Guyman, I worded that poorly. Not you, but Trump's appearance in a San Diego Federal court. I included a link in my previous post.

edit; Fixed it Guyman! what a F-up on my part.....

edit 2; Donald Trump is being sued over allegations he defrauded millions of dollars from students who attended courses at his Trump University. Two class action lawsuits are scheduled to go to trial early next year in San Diego Federal Court. NBC 7's Mari Payton reports. (Published Wednesday, Dec. 16, 2015)
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:26am PT
Republicans, Libertarians and Independents for Biden.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 24, 2016 - 10:31am PT
I love the poorly educated
Donald J. Trump
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 10:40am PT
I have noticed that he often says "I love" (whatever), and those loved ones tend to be some group which he sees in a negative light. He also said "I love Mexicans," after his infamous rant calling them rapists. Tried a search to see who all else he has declared love - definitely remember hearing it in his speeches and it always was like that - declaring love of someone, or some thing, he does not love.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 10:43am PT
Norton.... no way $5,000 ..... I don't like to bet more than I can afford to loose... but believe me, none of those dudes will leave the country. All that is is cheap internet blowhardness.


Now .... how much to you wish to wager that Hillery is indicted, by the FBI, for not keeping secrets secret?


Guzman, $4999


But you name your maximum?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 10:44am PT
Dingus posted
First sentence is true. 2nd sentence is false - I have no pick and will get the poison others choose for me.

"Not choosing" is a choice. You are not absolved of responsibility.

guyman posted
Now .... how much to you wish to wager that Hillery is indicted, by the FBI, for not keeping secrets secret?

Unsurprisingly, conservative media is the only thing keeping this idea alive. Let me know when a real journalist or someone actually involved in the investigation reveals something.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 24, 2016 - 10:46am PT
As I've said before I think the right has forgot how much they hated, HATED, Hilary during Bills time in office. They complained about her more than Bill and claimed she called all the shots. They called her shrill, harpie, bonershrinker.

At this point it looks like she's likely to be the next president. As much as I'd like to appreciate the heads exploding on the right I think we are in for even more animosity and partisanship.

For the record I'd like to see a moderate, centrist, independent president not beholden to the two parties and corporations and unions that pay for the campaigns but I'm not holding by breath.
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
Feb 24, 2016 - 11:00am PT
The American version of AHMADI-NEJAT will take over the white house in 2017
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 24, 2016 - 11:14am PT
You do know that trump is planning to build a hotel on the Stony Pt. property, don't you?

that would be effing awesome! Nice big restaurant..
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 24, 2016 - 11:15am PT
For the record I'd like to see a moderate, centrist, independent president not beholden to the two parties and corporations and unions that pay for the campaigns but I'm not holding by breath.


So you need to look at TRUMP.... he is the only one who fits your bill.

Think about it.


And Norton.... how about Lunch at a fine dinning establishment in Josh, Yucca Valley or even Palm Springs? Winner picks the place, looser pays and gets to eat well done crow.

I could swing that.... and later we could go climbing, looser gets to belay.


pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 24, 2016 - 11:29am PT
There were more votes cast for Trump last night than were cast for all candidates in 2012. I will energize and grow the Republican party like never seen before!
Today we are one step closer to Making America Great Again!

Donald Trump
dirtbag

climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 11:30am PT
And he will also punch dissenters, make Muslims sign registers, call women dogs, and insult disabled people.

What a sweetheart. Very presidential.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 11:36am PT
and would want to "date" his own daughter

how cool is that?

edit:

guyman, while i appreciate your offer, I prefer to bet real money, but thanks anyway
dirtbag

climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 11:37am PT
Norton, there are so many cool things about him, it's impossible to list them all.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 11:47am PT

As the man was being escorted away, Mr. Trump repeatedly told the crowd that he wished for the “old days,” adding, “You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They’d be carried out on a stretcher.”

“I’d like to punch him in the face, I’ll tell ya,” Mr. Trump added.

Mr. Trump has faced criticism over his response to protesters before. After a Black Lives Matter demonstrator was pushed to the ground at one of his events in November, Mr. Trump said in an interview after the episode that “maybe he should have been roughed up,” before later pulling back from his comments.

But on Monday night, he held nothing back, and the crowd of thousands met every one of his lines with whooping cheers.

Addressing another protester, a man holding a sign that read, “Veterans to Trump: End Hate Speech Against Muslims,” Mr. Trump repeatedly said, “Get him the hell out,” as the crowd booed the man’s exit.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/23/donald-trump-on-protester-id-like-to-punch-him-in-the-face/
Norton

Social climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 11:57am PT
but you will vote for Trump regardless, right?

not because you can support anything "worthwhile" about him but because a vote FOR a Republican is a vote AGAINST the opposing Democrat, right?

because ...those Democrats..can't remember why....just like to be in opposition
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 24, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/24/america_youre_stupid_donald_trumps_political_triumph_makes_it_official_were_a_nation_of_idiots/
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 24, 2016 - 12:25pm PT
I hope he gets Ted Cruz as AG, then goes after half of Congress-might need to keep Gitmo open for this.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 24, 2016 - 12:45pm PT
Well, a few minutes ago, I changed my voter registration to Repub, so I could vote for Donald!

Takes some getting used to, after a lifetime as a Dem.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 24, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
Well, a few minutes ago, I changed my voter registration to Repub, so I could vote for Donald!

Ken, thank you!

I changed my voter registration to Republican four years ago

I vote in my state's Republican Primaries for the candidate I would most like to
see run against the Democrat, and I too will be voting for the Reality TV Star

I consider it my patriotic duty and urge all my friends to do so, very few have the stomach for it but I have convinced just a few.....so thank you Ken!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Feb 24, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
moosedrool, NZ is good, but a bitch to get into unless you're rich, a citizen, marry one, or are young and have skills they need.

On a related topic, every time I hear a Repub say 'America, love it or leave it' I am reminded of how difficult it actually is to emigrate to another country; most of them are tougher to get into than the States. Go to the Canadian immigrant site, for example, and take their little quiz to see if you qualify to move to the Frozen North; you probably don't.
peladob

Mountain climber
Mason City, Iowa
Feb 24, 2016 - 02:21pm PT
Awe cmon, NZ is getting Matt Gilchrist back this next week, can be that hard to infiltrate.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Feb 24, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
The link that 10b4me posted above is right on.

I fear the US is becoming The Benighted States of America.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Feb 24, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
@ moosekiwi, in answer to your questions:

1) billions and billions
2) sure
3) younger than you
4) proven ability to post on the Taco, or similar skill set(s)

@ peladob: Seriously, they're letting Matt go? Too bad for NZ, but they sort of have to take him.

On a personal note, we just finished bottling 16,128 bottles of wine with the same to do tomorrow. I certainly hope all of you out there who enjoy getting a little tipsy appreciate our dedicated efforts.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Feb 24, 2016 - 03:21pm PT
Jim, for all that is good in this world please delete this thread.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 24, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
I see that Ken M and Norton have switched party affiliation. Judging by the dems lousy turnout versus repubs record turnout in every state so far you guys are hip to a trend.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 24, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
yet another reason to like Conor McGregor...

http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/news/ufcs-conor-mcgregor-donald-trump-can-shut-his-big-mouth-20151124?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=huffpostlive&utm_campaign=partner

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 24, 2016 - 05:52pm PT
From an article in the Guardian:

But you don’t need some grand overarching political science theory [to know why Trump won the caucus]. There are millions of miserable people in America who know exactly who engineered the shattering of their worlds, and Trump isn’t one of those people – and, with the exception of Bernie Sanders, everyone else in the field is running on the basis of their experience being one of those people.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/24/donald-trump-victory-nevada-caucus-voter-anger
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 24, 2016 - 05:54pm PT
Yes
His numbers are terrific
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 25, 2016 - 01:29am PT
America who know exactly who engineered the shattering of their worlds...

Gotta love right-wingers who spend all day time raving about all those nasty subhumans not pulling their own weight and not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and yet they then can't wait to turn right around and play the huge VICTIM card and WAIL about how their worlds (such as they are) have been 'shattered' by all those non-white folk.

Pathetic and hypocritical in the extreme - and played like a frigging Stradivarius by a republican elite who has shipped all their jobs offshore.

The new gop - the party of delusionally oppressed victims (and as Trump said, dumb as a stump).
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 25, 2016 - 06:56am PT
http://myfox28columbus.com/news/election/poll-20-of-trump-supporters--of-emancipation-proclamation
zBrown

Ice climber
Feb 25, 2016 - 08:46am PT
Romney: Trump's tax returns may contain 'bombshell'

Pot and Kettle

How about a twofer. Plenty of dyn-O-mite in Romney's. When is he going to own up to using the tax amnesty program?


... explained Romney, who was careful to note that he was merely speculating and had no evidence against the real-estate magnate.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 25, 2016 - 10:58am PT
moosedrool, NZ is good, but a bitch to get into unless you're rich, a citizen, marry one, or are young and have skills they need.

In '93 Australia was a pain in the ass to immigrate to and NZ was piss simple; now NZ is a pain in the ass as well.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 25, 2016 - 11:09am PT
New Zealanders are just glorified Australians.


Norton

Social climber
Feb 25, 2016 - 11:13am PT
FINALLY

The VETTING has begun....about The Donald

"Buzzfeed" is first up after reviewing hours of Trump on the Howard Stern Show

Donald Trump’s rise toward the Republican nomination has been fueled, in part, by his candid and often crude style — more Howard Stern, say, than Mitt Romney.
And the roots of Donald Trump’s rhetoric come, in fact, in part from The Howard Stern Show. Trump appeared upwards of two dozen times from the late ’90s through the 2000s with the shock jock, and BuzzFeed News has listened to hours of those conversations, which are not publically available.

The most popular topic of conversation during these appearances, as is typical of Stern’s program, was sex. In particular, Trump frequently discussed women he had sex with, wanted to have sex with, or wouldn’t have sex with if given the opportunity. He also rated women on a 10-point scale.
“A person who is very flat-chested is very hard to be a 10,” he told Stern in one typical exchange.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/donald-trump-said-a-lot-of-gross-things-about-women-on-howar#.avYYpQWmA
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 25, 2016 - 11:16am PT
New Zealanders are just glorified Australians.

I didn't find that to be the case; quite the opposite if anything.

Most of the construction I saw in Australia was lousy whereas it was quite good in NZ. And when the masons are doing shoddy work you know a place has a bad culture of slacking. The only anomaly I saw in NZ was a baffling lack of window screens. Maybe that will change with the whole Zika thing.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 25, 2016 - 11:23am PT
I was just trolling New Zealanders and Aussies. :-)
Norton

Social climber
Feb 25, 2016 - 11:29am PT
WHITE SUPREMISTS ENDORSE DONALD TRUMP, how cool is that?


As the Republican presidential primary moves into the American south, white supremacist groups are working to mobilize racists to get out the vote for Donald Trump.

On Wednesday, David Duke, the white nationalist and former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard, encouraged his radio show listeners to volunteer for Trump's campaign. "Call Donald Trump’s headquarters [and] volunteer," he said on the "David Duke Radio Show." At Trump campaign offices, he said, "you’re gonna meet people who are going to have the same kind of mindset that you have.”

In Minnesota and Vermont, a white supremacist super PAC called the American National Super PAC has begun circulating a robocall in support of Trump.
HP
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 25, 2016 - 12:04pm PT
Trump quote above is fake. http://www.snopes.com/1998-trump-people-quote/

I read an article about the differences between Trump and the RNCs policies. It was interesting to see in some cases trump was more reasonable and in some the RNC was more reasonable.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 25, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
Fet, that is exactly right.

Our brother Trump IS more reasonable than most of the R party hacks. He is reaching out to, and actually bringing on board, many who have felt disenfranchised and left out.

He may not always agree with the agendas of those who come aboard, but he will make room for any Americans on the train!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Feb 25, 2016 - 01:14pm PT
moosekiwi - are you in the States? If so pm me your address for some free samples.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 25, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
He may not always agree with the agendas of those who come aboard, but he will make room for any Americans on the train!

Unless, of course, they are latino or muslim. Given the demographics, I'd say it's not a train destined to stay on the tracks past November even if he can keep from self-destructing between now and then (though hopefully that won't happen until after he vanquishes the other two stooges and secures the nomination ).
dirtbag

climber
Feb 25, 2016 - 02:23pm PT
No, but if you want some reason for optimism, most republicans aren't voting for him (yet) and there isn't much evidence showing most Americans support him.

Still, enough are supporting him to be troubling.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 25, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
There's a lot of racists. Simple as that.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 25, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
Not saying that everyone who supports him is a racist. A lot are and a lot more are willing to look the other way as enablers.

The big wall paid by Mexico? Ain't gonna happen.
Deporting 11 million people? Ain't gonna happen.
Some yet-to-be-disclosed terrific healthcare plan? Ain't gonna happen.
Banning Muslims from entering the country? Ain't gonna happen.
Bigger, stronger military than the bigger, stronger one we already have? Ain't gonna happen.
Trump defeating ISIS by bombing the sh#t out of them? Ain't gonna happen.
Telling the Chinese how to run their country? Ain't gonna happen.
Releasing his tax records. Happening when?

On Wednesday, David Duke, the white nationalist and former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard, encouraged his radio show listeners to volunteer for Trump's campaign. "Call Donald Trump’s headquarters [and] volunteer," he said on the "David Duke Radio Program." At Trump campaign offices, he said, "you’re gonna meet people who are going to have the same kind of mindset that you have.”
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Feb 25, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
There is no discernable difference between Trump and Rubio or Cruz. They are just trying to out crazy each other to please their electorate. What is it about Trump that even bothers Republicans?
Norton

Social climber
Feb 25, 2016 - 04:25pm PT

Here's your candidate, PYRO

dirtbag

climber
Feb 25, 2016 - 04:28pm PT
Sleep well tonight, Trump-haters. He probably won't win.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/02/donald_trump_would_very_likely_lose_to_hillary_clinton.html
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Feb 25, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
I'm among those who think Trump will likely lose badly in the general election. But I'm far from sleeping easy. Having a two-party political system is bad enough when both parties are reasonably functional. Having one party that is merely bad, and the other party has gone off the deep end... There are real challenges facing this country and its not a good start.

If Trump wins the nomination, which is looking more likely than not, that in and of itself is making our political system worse. Casual bigotry hasn't been this acceptable for a presidential nominee in more than a generation.

Hillary is far from a slam-dunk candidate even against Trump. Economic crisis, foreign policy crisis, she really does get a felony indictment... Trump has already gotten far closer to the presidency than I'm for one am happy with.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 25, 2016 - 06:15pm PT

The big wall paid by Mexico? Ain't gonna happen.
Deporting 11 million people? Ain't gonna happen.
Some yet-to-be-disclosed terrific healthcare plan? Ain't gonna happen.
Banning Muslims from entering the country? Ain't gonna happen.
Trump defeating ISIS by bombing the sh#t out of them? Ain't gonna happen.
Telling the Chinese how to run their country? Ain't gonna happen.
Releasing his tax records. Happening when?

Hey, I agree with crankloon


Bigger, stronger military than the bigger, stronger one we already have? Ain't gonna happen.
Probably would happen

Sleep well tonight, Trump-haters. He probably won't win.

Not sure about that.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Feb 25, 2016 - 06:36pm PT
He can't win, but he sure can flush the chumps! Who will endorse him next? Hitler Youth? He is a carnival sideshow barker with bad hair.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 25, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
Trump Would Fix Budget Deficit By Chopping EPA

Donald Trump wants to get rid of the Department of Education and the Environmental Protection Agency, ideas he's floated before.

But here's the bad news. The budget for the EPA in 2015 was $8 billion. That's out of a $3.8 trillion federal spending plan, making it 0.2 percent of the budget.

So no, eliminating the EPA won't go very far toward balancing the budget. But it will bring dirtier air and water -- in the interest of making America great again.

Meanwhile, the EPA's budget has been reduced in recent years. It was $10 billion in 2010, but Congress has appropriated less money to the agency in the years since.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gop-debate-live-updates_us_56cf9593e4b0871f60ead737
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 25, 2016 - 09:29pm PT
See the Drudge Report snap poll to see what the voters, or as many here would describe the racist, bigoted, idiotic hillbilly populace, think.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Feb 25, 2016 - 10:03pm PT
Trump wins the general election = there is a chance he can work with both parties in congress and get something done.

Hillary wins the general election = nothing happens; party of no vs the president it hates.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 25, 2016 - 11:01pm PT
I'll definitely take the latter of those two scenarios...
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Feb 25, 2016 - 11:04pm PT
Bernie's gonna take away yer dollar democracy
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Feb 26, 2016 - 06:06am PT
Trump wins the general election = there is a chance he can work with both parties in congress and get something done.

Ya think? This morning, I was trying to visualize, Trump Administration legislation, moving through a Rubio/Cruz Senate.

A lot depends on events. Things have been relatively quiet recently and gas prices are low. Good news for the Democrats.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 06:20am PT
I didn't watch the debates, but it looks like Rubio gave the Donald a pretty good pounding. Too little too late?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 26, 2016 - 06:25am PT
jgill, your justification for a Trump presidency is disturbing. Do you agree with the things he is saying?

You're obviously too smart to buy Trump's "I'll give you the details later, but trust me, it's going to be a terrific plan".

The truth is that we have a do-nothing congress filled with rightwing ideologues and obstructionist who have pledged to not cooperate with the current president. I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to why - and why these same people (and their constituents) love what Trump is selling.

Getting something done....yikes, unless that something is a great big wall on our southern border with trains containing 11 million people being deported. Maybe you want the middle-east carpet bombed. Maybe you don't believe that global warming is happening. Maybe you're ok with torture.

Hillary can work with a congress that is changed after the extremists in control of the GOP are sent to a crushing defeat.

She's a politician, after all, and a darn smart one.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 26, 2016 - 06:44am PT
Jgill LIBERALS heads are going to explode..
couchmaster

climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 06:50am PT


My next bumper sticker: "I support bipartisan gridlock"
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 07:10am PT
If Trump becomes president, I believe we will see bigotry unleashed. Until now, racists had fear of being shunned for vocalizing their secret pleasure of feeling their skin color makes them superior. Hell, they even saw people getting arrested for acts of hate, like the asshat in my home town who threw a brick wrapped in hate speech through the window of his black neighbor's house. They kept it to themselves except when they were in what they considered safe company. Now it's becoming open season of brown skinned people.

God help us, if Trump wins.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 26, 2016 - 07:11am PT
Ricky punctuation is not going to save you..
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 26, 2016 - 07:14am PT
I think many here will be closet Trump voters.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 26, 2016 - 07:21am PT
Vicente's remark may have had a little more bite if he were actually still the president.

Trump's retort: "the wall just got ten feet higher"
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 26, 2016 - 07:26am PT
"There is no doubt that Mexicans, filled with dignity, willingness and ability to work, are doing jobs that not even blacks want to do there in the United States".
-Vicente Fox
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 26, 2016 - 07:43am PT
"I said Phil, 'I don't want your money' – I don't wanna do it, I'm self funding. Everytime I see him, it's hard for me to turn down money cos that's not what I've done my whole life. I grab and grab and grab, you know I get greedy! I want money, money!

"I'll tell you what we're gonna do, right – we get greedy, right? Now we're gonna get greedy for the United States. We're gonna grab and grab and grab! We're gonna bring in so much money and so much everything, we're gonna make America great again folks, I'm telling you, we're gonna make America great again."
Trump quote from this week

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2016/02/24/18/14/grab-grab-grab-for-america-trump-storms-to-victory-in-nevada#gTrjVlWRcqb127pu.99

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 26, 2016 - 07:52am PT
David Duke: Voting against Trump is 'treason to your heritage'
The white nationalist and former KKK grand wizard encouraged his listeners to volunteer for Trump.


By ELIZA COLLINS 02/25/16 11:59 AM EST


David Duke, a white nationalist and former Klu Klux Klan grand wizard, told his audience Wednesday that voting for anyone besides Donald Trump “is really treason to your heritage.”
“Voting for these people, voting against Donald Trump at this point, is really treason to your heritage,” Duke said on the David Duke Radio Program.

"I’m not saying I endorse everything about Trump. In fact, I haven’t formally endorsed him. But I do support his candidacy, and I support voting for him as a strategic action. I hope he does everything we hope he will do.”


“And I am telling you that it is your job now to get active. Get off your duff. Get off your rear end that’s getting fatter and fatter for many of you everyday on your chairs. When this show’s over, go out, call the Republican Party, but call Donald Trump’s headquarters, volunteer,” he said. “They’re screaming for volunteers. Go in there, you’re gonna meet people who are going to have the same kind of mind-set that you have.”


“He’s made it OK to talk about these incredible concerns of European Americans today, because I think European Americans know they are the only group that can’t defend their own essential interests and their point of view,” Duke said. “He’s meant a lot for the human rights of European Americans.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/david-duke-trump-219777#ixzz41I10MeVz
dirtbag

climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 08:06am PT
Pyro: republicans heads are exploding. They have created a monster they can't control. Liberals are looking forward to pouncing on him.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Feb 26, 2016 - 09:59am PT
Liberals are looking forward to pouncing on him.

Perhaps. But The Donald isn't the problem, he is a symptom. While it does seem likely, that the next President will be a Democrat - due to the upended chaos in the Republican ranks - the fact is, on a daily basis, President Clinton will be confronted with a large disgruntled minority, that believes Washington needs toxic therapy.

There is no scenario now, by which this ends well.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 10:06am PT
John, you're right. I have low expectations for the next four or eight years. A vote for Clinton is a vote for gridlock, for sure, which I think is the best case scenario. Both parties, particularly republicans, of course, will have to figure out what the hell happened.


dirtbag

climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 10:06am PT
Btw: Christie is endorsing Trump.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 26, 2016 - 10:07am PT
President Clinton will be confronted with a large disgruntled minority of angry right wingers fed on hate and lies.

No. it will not end well.

If they could only temper the hate
and be true patriots that love their duly elected officials instead then we would have a chance

But that will never happen, the brainwashing is too deep
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 10:08am PT
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-02-26/trump-will-become-president-statistical-model-says

The odds are ever in Donald Trump's favor.

Helmut Norpoth, a professor of political science at Stony Brook University, has developed a statistical model that predicts a 97 percent to 99 percent chance that Trump will win the 2016 presidential election if he wins the Republican nomination, The Blaze reports.

Norpoth's model has correctly predicted the outcome of every single presidential election since 1912 – save one, the election of 1960, which some believe was rigged. It uses a candidate’s performance in their party’s primary coupled with electoral cycle patterns to determine the likely outcome of the general election.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 10:12am PT
How the hell does Trump do it?

That Christie endorsement sure took the wind out of Rubes' sails.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 10:41am PT
"It's a movement. It's really a movement. And it's going to be great."
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 26, 2016 - 11:14am PT
Dirtbag ur head just exploded..
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Feb 26, 2016 - 11:22am PT
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-is-the-gops-frankenstein-monster-now-hes-strong-enough-to-destroy-the-party/2016/02/25/3e443f28-dbc1-11e5-925f-1d10062cc82d_story.html
dirtbag

climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 11:33am PT


Big Wall climber
Calabasas

Feb 26, 2016 - 11:14am PT
Dirtbag ur head just exploded..

Okay, a little.

Im actually laughing and grudgingly admiring the guy. His chief rival rubes had his biggest night and trump just knee knocked him. Rube's well deserved throbber just limped out.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 26, 2016 - 11:36am PT
Just watch John Kasich talk and you will quickly lose your thoughts about him being a possible good candidate.

he is annoying as hell in my elitist opinion
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 11:40am PT
"He can't win, but he sure can flush the chumps! Who will endorse him next? Hitler Youth? He is a carnival sideshow barker with bad hair." -stahlbro

If the White House goes to Trump, it's going to be due to this kind of arrogance.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 26, 2016 - 11:46am PT
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/02/chris-christie-endorsement-donald-trump-shouldnt-be-president-219864?cmpid=sf#ixzz41InlCRHu
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 26, 2016 - 11:47am PT
Just watch John Kasich talk and you will quickly lose your thoughts about him being a possible good candidate.

Who had those thoughts?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 26, 2016 - 11:50am PT
Its all good dirtbag..
Rubio will be the VP..
Donald will teach him the right way to conduct business
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 11:51am PT
You know...I don't think it's too late for Bloomberg to come in 3rd party. At this point I would welcome him, even as president.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 11:53am PT
HFCS posted

If the White House goes to Trump, it's going to be due to this kind of arrogance.

If the White House goes to Trump, it's going to be due to more people voting for him than for Hillary. People already planning to vote against him being less arrogant won't change much other than the tone of certain forum posts.

pyro posted
Its all good dirtbag..
Rubio will be the VP..

Pretty unlikely.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
"If the White House goes to Trump, it's going to be due to more people voting for him than for Hillary. People already planning to vote against him being less arrogant won't change much other than the tone of certain forum posts." -hddj

1. If the White House goes to Trump, it's going to be due to more people voting for him than for Hillary.

True. Obviously.

2. People already planning to vote against him being less arrogant won't change much...

True. Obviously. Because they're "already planning" to vote against him.



And the Dems and Independents who are cock-sure he cannot win? who aren't all that motivated by politics or the desire to get out and vote in the first place? Aren't they, some of them - more than if they weren't so "cock-sure" (perhaps due to what they've heard on the streets and forums, 'he can't win') - likely to sit it out?

C'mon.

The point: It is not a time for anyone who is AGAINST Trump to be cock-sure he cannot win. Nor is it time for those who are AGAINST Trump to be broadcasting such a message.

This is how elections are lost.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 26, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
It should be noted that the article Bob D'A posted is written by Robert Kagan who, along with his neocon cronies, gave us the gift of the hell that is the Mideast today. When an obfuscating mofo like that is calling a spade a spade it's about as embarrassing as it gets.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
Pyro, here is a head exploding (and Jennifer Rubin ain't no lib):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/02/26/chris-christies-despicable-endorsement-of-trump/
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 26, 2016 - 12:40pm PT

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/donald-trump-2016-213677
dirtbag

climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
Oops...thanks Jim.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
"It's a movement. It's really a movement. And it's going to be great."...

not to mention.....HUGE

with the BEST PEOPLE INVOLVED

and finally, with the HIGHEST POLL NUMBERS

oh Donald...............
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Feb 26, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
HFCS,

It is not arrogance, it is incredulity. Arrogance is your projection.

I am not advocating apathy, I am just having a hard time believing how many people see him as viable choice for president. I, for one, will be first in line at the polls to help ensure this country does not become the laughing stock of the free world.

Over and out

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 26, 2016 - 12:58pm PT
From pud's politico article:

“I, Donald Trump, do solemnly swear…”

After he takes the oath of office, he kisses his wife, Melania. His children hug him excitedly. Former President Barack Obama, a bewildered look on his face, shakes his hand. A few rows back Howard Stern gives the new president a thumbs up. Behind him Dennis Rodman mutters something incomprehensible. And then Donald J. Trump, the 45th President of the United States, turns to the lectern to offer an inaugural address that for the first time in history is being delivered without any text or, as much as anyone can tell, without any preparation whatsoever.

This is usually the point when Mitch McConnell wakes up screaming, his face drenched in cold sweat.


Funny stuff!
jogill

climber
Colorado
Feb 26, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
Rubio will be toast after Super Tuesday. Kasich would be fine if he would stop chopping with his hands and talking too much. Carson becoming a somewhat humorous tagalong. Cruz is completely unelectable on both coasts, hence not gonna make it. Hillary would be great . . . if she wasn't Hillary. Thinks she can get away with anything. But she'll probably be our next CEO.

;>(
steveA

Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
Feb 26, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
My bet is on Hillary.

I'm not excited over any of the choices, but since Donald has foot and mouth disease, he will go down in flames, yelling all the way.

At least Hillary will have someone advising her, behind the scenes, who really wasn't a bad POTUS, and kept us out of debt; even if he couldn't keep it in his pants, while in the oval office. There were other great leaders with the same problem; including FDR, but they were great presidents.
zBrown

Ice climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 02:02pm PT


Trump/Christie vs. Hillary/Christie Brinkley?

I wonder who she is gonna choose?
Norton

Social climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
John Kennedy had the same sex issue but did not seem to hinder his standing as a great President.

I don't care what they do, and any man would have lied as Clinton did to try to protect his
wife and daughter from it going public.

couchmaster

climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 02:20pm PT
We'll, I clearly am piss poor at predicting such things so I'm out of this election prediction game for a while. $400 and change lighter at this point I'll add. I simply didn't and couldn't imagine that Trump would still be in the race at this point, let alone be the clear leader, so I bet $ with my thoughts months back. NOTE TO SELF: DON'T BET AGAINST TRUMP DON'T BET AGAINST TRUMP DON'T BET AGAINST TRUMP DON'T BET AGAINST TRUMP DOHHH

2 Bad Couchmaster quotes from just upthread: Swing and a miss:
Aug 26, 2015 - 11:29am PT
I can't imagine any scenario where Trump is the Republican candidate. Not. Gonna. Happen. He's up over 20 percent in the polls over the next most popular dude right now, but even the most clueless will be waking up at some point, and when they do, I imagine that the hangover and regrets will rival looking into your angry wife's eyes the morning after any hooker, heavy drinks and multiple drug overdose evening.

Trump. Not. Gonna. Happen.


Not a swing, still a miss.
Dec 8, 2015 - 08:19am PT
Donalds 33% defy's belief to me. It's like I'm on another planet. The mans knee jerks up so hard and so frequently you wonder how his chin can take those off the cuff reactions he so easily spews. And some of them I agree with too. In either case, I have a sizable bet that he is NOT the republican candidate, and seeing him have almost double the nearest repub contender in the polls is making me nervous.

OK, I missed this one. Still not ready for Trump. Sigh.....I can, however, now clearly imagine that scenario I was unable to imagine back in August. It's going down as we speak. Super Tuesday is all but owned by Trump per the polling numbers. Bernies numbers, on the other hand, look like trash.



10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 26, 2016 - 02:23pm PT
Here is what they will be playing at trump's inauguration.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 02:43pm PT
I blame Frank and Claire Underwood for all this.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 03:53pm PT
now even the conservative "Economist" magazine comes out strongly against Trump

how much longer can Donald count on pyro's support, it's one thing after another

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21693579-donald-trump-unfit-lead-great-political-party-time-fire-him


odds are some 50 million American adults, not children, will vote for him in November
certainly quite a few who post here on the political threads...

is there anything at all left that would make you change your mind?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 26, 2016 - 04:16pm PT
Well, the aspect of Rumpt that I really like is that now when I'm around folks who are talking politics it's immediately clear whether they are a moron, bigot or both.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
I can see where you would not vote for a woman

but what big problem do you have with Bernie Sanders?

It's not like you make a huge enough income that if any of his proposals became
law that you would have to pay any extra federal tax
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Feb 26, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
I've been watching Republican debates and they leave me feeling sick to my stomach. Trump doesn't discuss issues - he acts like a juvenile bully with crude ad hominem attacks. When his opponent starts to make a telling point he immediately shouts over him so the point can't be heard. Any high school debate would be more dignified and more intelligent.

"I love the undereducated!" says Donald. And well he might. You can hear them screaming approval when he speaks.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
News reports that Trump "can't disclose his tax returns because he's being audited."
http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/26/pf/taxes/trump-tax-returns-audit/

The man who yammered on and on, and on some more, demanding that President Obama present his (birth certificate)papers, now doesn't want to make his own papers public. What a surprise.

Of course there is plenty f time to put the pressure on. He says the audits will be completed in 2-3 weeks (the news article says that being audited does not present any real problem with posting one's returns; but that one cannot be compelled to do so). My thinking is he is strategizing to get past Super Tuesday and gain delegates that he might otherwise lose.

But if that time comes and goes, we are going to need a catchy name for the Movement to nudge him into doing what every other candidate has already done.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 26, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
I am not surprised Trump is likely to be the republican candidate. A big chunk of the right in this country is delusional. The only thing surprising is that they are okay with his more reasonable positions. I'd guess 60% of republicans in this country are delusional, bigoted in the classic sense, won't compromise and can't be reasoned with. While only maybe 10-20% of dems are far left, demonize the rich, bigoted in the classic sense, won't compromise and can't be reasoned with. Of course to those 60% of delusional Rebublicans say anyone who isn't a true conservative is one of the 10-20% of far left dems. They argue against the far left to try to make themselves sound more reasonable but showing they don't understand there is a whole spectrum of views self identifies them as delusional.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Feb 26, 2016 - 05:41pm PT
Finally realized who Donald reminds me of.

Archie Bunker. On steroids.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 26, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
Pyro at work during a town hall meeting:

Effing perfect Jim!
Norton

Social climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
My guess is that all of us place a high value on the personal integrity of our political candidates, true?

If I did not have a problem with anything else about Donald Trump is that he is HUGE LIAR

How can I say that I would vote FOR someone, or a vote AGAINST someone else if LYING means a lot to me?

And Donald Trump is a really huge liar, we all know how to do an internet search,
just put in Trump and Lies, here is just a very few of the lists and lists of his lies

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/2015-biggest-lies_us_56787039e4b014efe0d66a79

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/11/24/Donald-Trump-s-8-Most-Recent-Blatant-Lies

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/11/23/donald-trump-is-constantly-lying/

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/12/21/donald-trump-tells-lies-misstatements-win-lie-year-award.html
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2016 - 05:52pm PT
Moose, haha, that was just my reaction some 20 years ago after I started watching Melrose Place, a sitcom on CBS I think it was, that followed Star Trek Voyager. It seemed like suddenly it just got very disgustingly and wildly immoral... driven by ratings and the most base instincts... and thus depressing... and I wondered what kind of message this was/would be sending out to the youngest esp. I stopped watching. Little did I know it was just the tip of the iceberg to a lot more to follow.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 26, 2016 - 05:54pm PT

Ohhh nooo!
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 26, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas

Pyro, the Jesus Wall at Stoney is not a big wall.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 26, 2016 - 06:18pm PT

Time to fire Trump...
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21693579-donald-trump-unfit-lead-great-political-party-time-fire-him
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 26, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Feb 26, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
I mailed off my Idaho absentee ballot for our March 8 Republican primary today.


I proudly voted for "The Donald" for two reasons.

1. Rubio & Cruz make me want to puke.

2. Trump was the only Republican candidate in Nevada that resisted endorsing the Bundyites and their insane cowboy attempt to grab OUR PUBLIC lands for state & private takeover.



----- Do I hear "popping" noises??


I don't think Trump will win against Hillary, but if he does, I suspect we won't see another Hitler.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 26, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
My god, he's got Fritz! Trump is the greatest "actor" I've ever seen on the presidential stage. Attracts everyone from Bubba right and left to his fellow billionaires. Hell even the previously anointed establishment, evidenced by Christy, is being caught up in the wave. I'm waiting for Cranksore to get on board before declaring game over.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 26, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
Yes,He is a good actor.
What if he was acting all along,appealing to your base,just to get the Repub nomination.
He gets it then turns into a All Time Liberal.
Just to piss you Repubs off.

I mean he is buying an election.

He is from New York.

He is a good Actor.


LTFOL.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 26, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
I think he is going to let Hillary win.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 26, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
I've always been registered independent Wilbeer.

Hillary win? Does that mean you're going to act on your theory and primary for Trump?

Another one bites the dust.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Feb 26, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
Colorado has been effectively disenfranchised by the Republican Party since no one at a caucus gets to state their preference in even a straw poll. Only delegates are chosen that choose other delegates up to uncommitted delegates to the national convention, where party elders get to manipulate results.

If I were a Colorado republican I would be pissed.
dee ee

Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
Feb 26, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
LMAO
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 26, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
Everything he is doing is based on gaining more power, more money...

You say it like it's a bad thing.

A favorite Dylan song pretty much sums it up:
"Neighborhood Bully"

Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man
His enemies say he's on their land
They got him outnumbered about a million to one
He got no place to escape to, no place to run
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully he just lives to survive
He's criticized and condemned for being alive
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land
He's wandered the earth an exiled man
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
He's always on trial for just being born
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
Old women condemned him, said he could apologize
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it, and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a licence to kill him is given out to every maniac
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he got no allies to really speak of
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
He's the neighborhood bully.
Every empire that's enslaved him is gone
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
In bed with nobody, under no one's command
He's the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
No contract that he signed was worth that what it was written on
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
He's the neighborhood bully.

What's anybody indebted to him for ?
Nothing, they say. He just likes to cause war
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
He's the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars ?
Does he change the course of rivers ? Does he pollute the moon and stars ?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
Running out the clock, time standing still
Neighborhood bully.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Feb 26, 2016 - 10:10pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Feb 27, 2016 - 07:12am PT
http://www.aol.com/article/2016/02/26/professor-if-trump-gets-the-nomination-hell-win-in-november/21319450/
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 27, 2016 - 07:31am PT
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 27, 2016 - 08:10am PT
So it looks like it's going to be a Trump-Christie 2016 ticket.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Feb 27, 2016 - 08:17am PT
Mitch McConnell: Republicans will drop Trump ‘like a hot rock’ if he wins the nomination

27 February 2016-09:34

In private meetings in Washington, Republicans are preparing for their latest worst case 2016 election scenario: Donald Trump might be their presidential nominee.
Normally at this point in the election cycle the GOP would be gearing up for attacks on their anticipated Democratic rival for the White House. But party leaders are so distraught at the idea of the blustery businessman heading the ticket, that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has taken to advising candidates to keep their distance from Trump.
According to the New York Times, McConnell is assuring Senate candidates running for reelection that they should feel free to run ads against Trump if they feel he is hurting their own campaigns. According to senators attending private lunches with the Majority Leader, McConnell is taking the approach that Trump will lose...

Source: http://www.rawstory.com


Looks like trouble is a brewing
Even Karl Rove is working on how to get rid of Trump
I suspect dirty tricks will start popping up
You don't want to get Karl's bad side
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 27, 2016 - 08:22am PT
I suspect dirty tricks will start popping up

Likely. Humans being human. Egos being egos.

From Trump's perspective, all the more reason to have a card-carrying Christie on your side, earlier the better.

.....

Did you all catch the Bill Maher Hayden exchange last night...

If there's another US terrorist attack close to the election...

Trump wins. "It is President Trump." (Maher/Hayden)

"America is known to sh#t its pants."

In fact the whole clip is worthy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC7-RMhfSos

.....

fwiw...

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Feb 27, 2016 - 08:40am PT
If nothing else, it highlights that you can still get a Big Gulp and Quarter Pounder w Cheese, replete with trans fat in New Jersey. Christie can prove it.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Feb 27, 2016 - 11:04am PT
TRUMP PLOTS REVENGE AGAINST NEWS ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE TOLD THE TRUTH



Trump claims he will have the power to revoke the First Amendment. If elected, he will cause "problems" for reporters and news media.



Trump is exactly the guy the Founding Fathers had in mind when they wrote the First Amendment. George Orwell also predicted the rise of a Trump, who would establish a National Memory Hole for discarding the truth.


Trump wants to suppress journalists who report facts. Trump wants to suppress video tape of himself speaking.



Trump threatened to sue Ted Cruz for "defamation" when a Cruz campaign ad used used a video clip of Trump being interviewed.

Trump has repeatedly made outlandish statements, and then declaimed them later. He now seems intent on punishing anyone who brings forth a recording of Trump making a statement.




COMING UP NEXT:

Trump will promise massive concentration camps for Mexicans, Muslims and journalists.

Trump will call for massive gas chambers and ovens to "get rid of the trash".


He pretty much has nowhere else to go, with respect to making outrageous statements.


steveA

Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
Feb 27, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
O.K.

I wouldn't be surprised if Trump orchestrates some kind of "Terrorist"

attack/scare, just to create more fear among the electorate. I wouldn't trust that guy, in the least. I'm sure everyone in Europe is appalled at the circus show over here.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 27, 2016 - 01:58pm PT

Former CIA Head Explains Why Armed Forces Can't Legally Obey Trump Order:

"If he were to order that once in government, the American armed forces would refuse to act."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/michael-hayden-donald-trump_us_56d1ed18e4b0871f60eba2f3
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Feb 27, 2016 - 03:49pm PT

The Los Angeles Times reports that KKK members and a crowd of protesters clashed in a bloody battle in Anaheim.

There was no word about whether this was a pro-Trump rally by the klansmen. However, former Grand Wizard David Duke has called on KKK members to actively support Trump for president.

Donald Trump has applauded violence against dissenters at his political rallies, and has personally said he would like to see them attacked, beaten, and taken out on stretchers (medical gurneys).


KKK members stab three protesters in "self-defense"




Any moment now, Trump will applaud the KKK and their use of weapons to promote their political agenda in America.


nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 27, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
thanks for that link HFCS.

here's another from General Hayden. Really impressed with Trevor's interview.


http://www.cc.com/shows/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah/interviews/f3j17p/exclusive-michael-hayden-extended-interview
TLP

climber
Feb 27, 2016 - 05:16pm PT
I dunno what all the fuss is about. The Donald seems like a pretty standard current-era republican to me. The party powers-that-be have been cultivating and catering to his fact-free, reality-free, high-xenophobia, start wars for no reason, "I love the poorly educated" schtick in order to gain electoral edge for ages now. So now that they have to live with the fact that he does in fact represent the majority of the party electorate that they've been inciting all this time, they're unhappy? Oh well.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 28, 2016 - 09:56am PT
so Trump lies that he doesn't know who David Duke and the KKK is?

What the f*#k is wrong with people supporting this dou.chebag?

you have to have real mental issue to support this piece of sh#t.

Fuc.ked in the head and hate in the heart.

Fuc.k off trump supporters. Just go fu.ck yourselves.
Byran

climber
San Jose, CA
Feb 28, 2016 - 10:29am PT
American elections, and the Trump candidacy in particular, remind me of the Black Mirror episode "The Waldo Moment".

[Click to View YouTube Video]

The video might get taken off YouTube at some point, so watch it while you can. The whole series is excellent BTW, one of the best TV shows in recent years.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 28, 2016 - 10:41am PT
it doesn't allow him to recreate historic common law principles on which the US Constitution is based.

It's funny watching a Canadian talk about "common law principles" to GROUND the Constitution on something objective, when he and others just like him have repeatedly decried my "originalism" in GROUNDING what the Constitution MEANS in the founder's raft of surrounding documents (federalist and anti-federalist alike).

You cherry pick what parts of the Constitution you want to leave inviolate, while otherwise EMPHASIZING how it is a "living, breathing, dynamic document" that "must adapt to the times".

Pure BS. NONE of the founders would have stood for the utter crap that the SCOTUS now hands us (and has increasingly for decades)! The feds are into EVERYTHING now, and NONE of the founders (including the most "rabid" federalists) would have stood for the "interpretations" that have been foisted off on us. They would be looking around with accusing eyes and asking, "Why haven't you losers revolted long ago?"

For the Constitution to MEAN anything at all, some robust version of originalism MUST be used to interpret it. And even YOU admit that in your latest post. Now, let's quit cherry-picking! On every substantive point, the founders' surrounding documents are VERY clear about what THEY MEANT in their verbiage when they drafted it.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 28, 2016 - 10:59am PT
Cosmic, are you ok with Trump feigning ignorance about the KKK?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 28, 2016 - 11:02am PT
What the f*#k is wrong with people supporting this dou.chebag?

you have to have real mental issue to support this piece of sh#t.

Fuc.ked in the head and hate in the heart.

Fuc.k off trump supporters. Just go fu.ck yourselves.


nature here is ur head exploding one less bern voter
dirtbag

climber
Feb 28, 2016 - 11:05am PT
Pyro, are you ok with Trump feigning ignorance about the KKK?
cintune

climber
Ollin Arageed Space
Feb 28, 2016 - 11:45am PT
http://www.rollingstone.com/contributor/matt-taibbi

Best commentary going.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 28, 2016 - 12:22pm PT
feigning ignorance
?

that's being kind. Don't you mean "straight-faced lying"?
dirtbag

climber
Feb 28, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
It is kindest way to put it. But I also would like to know cosmic and pyro think about this.

I would never vote for someone who did this. His supporters should think about this.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 28, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
Oh, let's be honest

a vote FOR any Republican largely cannot be defended, notice how our forum Repub supporters never say anything positive about who they will vote for

it is a vote AGAINST the Democrat, that's why they vote Republican

why I believe Cosmic said that the other day, a vote of opposition

this election in particular is interesting in part because of the support Trump is getting
from the less educated, his numbers are very good with white, male, high school only graduates

why do you suppose that is?



dirtbag

climber
Feb 28, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
People like Christie need to answer this, too.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Feb 28, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
thanks cintune...

that taibbi article is, as usual, filled with so many good insightful one liners that everybody should just read the whole thing... in case you don't have time here's the reader's digest version:



A thousand ridiculous accidents needed to happen in the unlikeliest of sequences for it to be possible, but absent a dramatic turn of events – an early primary catastrophe, Mike Bloomberg ego-crashing the race, etc. – this boorish, monosyllabic TV tyrant with the attention span of an Xbox-playing 11-year-old really is set to lay waste to the most impenetrable oligarchy the Western world ever devised.



But, in an insane twist of fate, this bloated billionaire scion has hobbies that have given him insight into the presidential electoral process. He likes women, which got him into beauty pageants. And he likes being famous, which got him into reality TV. He knows show business.

That put him in position to understand that the presidential election campaign is really just a badly acted, billion-dollar TV show whose production costs ludicrously include the political disenfranchisement of its audience. Trump is making a mockery of the show, and the Wolf Blitzers and Anderson Coopers of the world seem appalled. How dare he demean the presidency with his antics?

But they've all got it backward. The presidency is serious. The presidential electoral process, however, is a sick joke, in which everyone loses except the people behind the rope line. And every time some pundit or party spokesman tries to deny it, Trump picks up another vote.



Moreover, there's evidence that human polling undercounts Trump's votes, as people support him in larger numbers when they don't have to admit their leanings to a live human being. Like autoerotic asphyxiation, supporting Donald Trump is an activity many people prefer to enjoy in a private setting, like in a shower or a voting booth.



But Trump's thin-skinned dealings with reporters didn't fully explain the media's efforts to prop up his opponents. We've long been engaged in our own version of the high school put-down game, battering nerds and outsiders like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich while elevating "electable," party-approved candidates like John McCain and John Kerry.



Rubio's face-plant brilliantly reprised Sir Ian Holm's performance in Alien, as a malfunctioning, disembodied robot head stammering, "I admire its purity," while covered in milky android goo. It was everything we hate about scripted mannequin candidates captured in a brief crack in the political façade.



All of which virtually guarantees Trump will probably enjoy at least a five-horse race through Super Tuesday. So he might have this thing sewn up before the others even figure out in what order they should quit. It's hard to recall a dumber situation in American presidential politics.



And when Rubio gets exposed in the debate as a talking haircut, a political Speak n' Spell, suddenly the throng of journalists who spent the past two weeks trying to sell America on "Marcomentum" and the all-important "establishment lane" looks very guilty indeed. Voters were supposed to take this seriously?



"Trump has also promised to use tariffs to punish companies," wrote David McIntosh in the Review's much-publicized, but not-effective-at-all "Conservatives Against Trump" 22-pundit jihad. "These are not the ideas of a small-government conservative ... They are, instead, the ramblings of a liberal wanna-be strongman."

What these tweedy Buckleyites at places like the Review don't get is that most people don't give a damn about "conservative principles." Yes, millions of people responded to that rhetoric for years. But that wasn't because of the principle itself, but because it was always coupled with the more effective politics of resentment: Big-government liberals are to blame for your problems.



Trump, though, she likes. And so do a lot of people. No one should be surprised that he's tearing through the Republican primaries, because everything he's saying about his GOP opponents is true. They really are all stooges on the take, unable to stand up to Trump because they're not even people, but are, like Jeb and Rubio, just robo-babbling representatives of unseen donors.



He used a German term, backpfeifengesicht, literally "a face in need of a good punch," to describe Cruz. This may be overstating things a little. Cruz certainly has an odd face – it looks like someone sewed pieces of a waterlogged Reagan mask together at gunpoint – but it's his tone more than anything that gets you. He speaks slowly and loudly and in the most histrionic language possible, as if he's certain you're too stupid to grasp that he is for freedom.



This is part of a gigantic subplot to the Trump story, which is that many of his critiques of the process are the same ones being made by Bernie Sanders. The two men, of course, are polar opposites in just about every way – Sanders worries about the poor, while Trump would eat a child in a lifeboat – but both are laser-focused on the corrupting role of money in politics.



In the meantime, Trump is cannily stalking the Sanders vote. While the rest of the GOP clowns just roll their eyes at Sanders, going for cheap groans with bits about socialism, Trump goes a different route. He hammers Hillary and compliments Sanders. "I agree with [Sanders] on two things," he says. "On trade, he said we're being ripped off. He just doesn't know how much."

He goes on. "And he's right with Hillary because, look, she's receiving a fortune from a lot of people."



Trump isn't the first rich guy to run for office. But he is the first to realize the weakness in the system, which is that the watchdogs in the political media can't resist a car wreck. The more he insults the press, the more they cover him: He's pulling 33 times as much coverage on the major networks as his next-closest GOP competitor, and twice as much as Hillary.

Trump found the flaw in the American Death Star. It doesn't know how to turn the cameras off, even when it's filming its own demise.



King Trump. Brace yourselves, America. It's really happening.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 28, 2016 - 01:18pm PT
In my effort to look on the bright side i look two, four and six years down the road. A King Rump reign means this (also toss in the douc.hebags repulicants that won't vote on an Obama SCOTUS nomination).
Senate goes Democrat in November.
Democrats win more house seats in November.
Senate stays Democrat mid-term
More democrat house seats won in mid-term
King Rump goes down after one term as one of the top-5 worse presidents ever and the white house goes back to sanity with a democrat. Hopefully nukes were not launched.

he's single handedly going to destroy the GOP, hopefully not taking the country with him, and we can be back on the road to progress rather than regress. Sucks it'll take two, four, six years.


And you are absolutely correct Norton. you won't get an answer because there is simply not one.

I get where you went with that, dirtbag. but i'd imagine you realize that.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 28, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
dirtbag: do you seriously expect an intelligent reply from pyro?

If you understand that Trump's campaign is centred around racism and mean-spirited greed, you're not likely to find that any of his supporters (like pyro) are upset to learn that Trump is delighted to accept KKK support - while cheerfully lying about his ignorance of their twisted beliefs.

nature put it well when he posted "fuc.ked in the head and hate in the heart".
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 28, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
In one Sunday morning, you have the most-likely Republican presidential nominee refusing, repeatedly, to disavow the KKK and saying, "Mussolini was Mussolini."

Trump: "Well, just so you understand, I don't know anything about [former Ku Klux Klan head] David Duke. Okay? I don't know anything about what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So, I don't know. I don't know. Did he endorse me or what's going on, because, you know, I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists. And so you're asking me a question that I'm supposed to be talking about people that I know nothing about. "

Tapper: "But I guess the question from the Anti-Defamation League is, even if you don't know about their endorsement, there are these groups and individuals endorsing you. Would you just say unequivocally you condemn them and you don't want their support?"

Trump: "Well, I have to look at the group. I mean, I don't know what group you're talking about. You wouldn't want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about. I would have to look. If you would send me a list of the groups, I will do research on them. And, certainly, I would disavow them if I thought there was something wrong."

Tapper: "The Ku Klux Klan?"

Trump: "But you may have groups in there that are totally fine, and it would be very unfair. So give me a list of the groups, and I will let you know."

Tapper: "Okay. I mean, I'm just talking about David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan here, but ..."

Trump: "I don't know any — honestly, I don't know David Duke. I don't believe I have ever met him. I'm pretty sure I didn't meet him. And I just don't know anything about him."

Need more proof this guy is a racist?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 28, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
The pressure is on, hard, to dissuade voters from backing Trump On Super Tuesday. The powers that be can't come out and tell them not to vote Trump, because, obviously.... but they are doing their best to nudge them along.

If the "I don't know about the group(Ku Klux Klan)" doesn't make any difference in his numbers, I don't imagine there's anything that possibly could. Well, maybe if it was discovered that he paid for male prostitutes. That's about the only thing I can imagine a person who has accepted his misogynist remarks, his belittling a journalist's handicap, and the myriad of other behaviors would find unsettling enough to step back.
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Feb 28, 2016 - 05:22pm PT
President Barack Obama on Trump:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/269606-obama-i-dont-believe-trump-will-be-president
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 28, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
misogynist remarks, his belittling a journalist's handicap, and the myriad of other behaviors would find unsettling enough to step back

The problem is that the Demoncrats are determined to put up the Hillabeast, who has poll results showing that the majority of Americans have an immediate word-association with her of "dishonest."

She's a lying criminal, regardless of whether or not the DOJ will do their OBVIOUS job in the face of the now stacks of evidence of her at least criminal-negligence.

So, since the Demoncrats REFUSE to give us Bernie as an alternative, people like me are FORCED to vote for whatever non-Hillabeast the Rebumblecons put up. Give me a Bernie alternative, and that's who I'm going for.

Stupid Demoncrats!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 28, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
Charged and convicted with WHAT, again???...

That's a bogus question, as you know. The game is played very differently for people like her than people like us.

Anybody who can't look at the relevant statutes, which, btw, are published on the State Department website, and compare those to what we ALL already know about her behaviors, and thereby see the crimes she HAS committed... well, there's no arguing it.

But, half the country will simply turn a blind eye to it, while the other half (and hopefully enough more) will vote for Trump. Even HE would be better than the utter slime she is.

It's not just "angry" voters that are looking to him. Give me Bernie, and it's a totally different ballgame. But give me the Hillabeast, and I (and many like me) am going for Trump.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 28, 2016 - 07:02pm PT
"Criminal". What a load of crap. Is there a rightwing conspiracy theory you don't believe? I got through the entire ski day without thinking about Hillary Clinton's e-mail server. Or Vince Foster. Or Benghazi. Or Whitewater.

Forcing you to vote for Trump? Sounds like you go willingly down that path. Unbelievable ignorance. Sorry, but you've been conned.

You support Bernie, he'll endorse Hillary, but you'll vote for the bigot. What principles you have.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Feb 28, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
That's a bogus question, as you know.

Hmmm. Yes and no.

Don't you often post on ST demanding that people be specific? Aren't you the guy who puts people in the dock for making claims without proof? The guy who demands reason and logic?

It may be true that the very rich and well connected are treated differently by the police and courts than black kids in hoodies, but you waving your arms and saying "Well, yeah, of course she's guilty" is no different than anyone else here on ST claiming something but not backing it up.

Personally, I have no idea whether Hillary Clinton is guilty of any crime. But you saying "Of course she is" is no different than someone else saying "Of course she isn't."
Norton

Social climber
Feb 28, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
Ignorance or arrogance

which came first ?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 28, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
both?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 28, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
She's a lying criminal, regardless of whether or not the DOJ will do their OBVIOUS job in the face of the now stacks of evidence of her at least criminal-negligence.

bolter, the fact that you cannot actually cite ONE law that she has violated, in spite of it being so OBVIOUS, and that when people ask, you say that they have to go on a Google expedition of state dept websites and who knows what else, means to me that even if you are right, the number of people who will do that is vanishingly small.....she's elected for sure, and the fault will be YOURS, because you would not cite specifics.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 28, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
Personally, I have no idea whether Hillary Clinton is guilty of any crime.

Which should mean, in America, she is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 28, 2016 - 07:49pm PT
Bolter, put up or shut up. Show us the links. You spend 45 minutes writing your wall of posts, you can spend 5 minutes providing a link to prove your point.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 28, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
Stewart, I don't expect an answer, but I do think it is time to put his supporters on the spot and hold them accountable. This isn't cute or funny anymore, and if he is elected, it will be because they are willing to support his bigotry. They don't get a pass on this sh#t anymore.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Feb 28, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
Mark O'Rubio
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Feb 28, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
Hard to believe this was 19 years ago - MAD TV pretty much nailed the Tea Party as it is now:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 28, 2016 - 08:35pm PT
Bolter, so you are willing to vote for a bigot, and misogynist just because you won't vote for someone who you assume is guilty of something, but has never been convicted of anything.

That's some sound reasoning.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 28, 2016 - 09:03pm PT
#‎makedonalddrumpfagain‬
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 28, 2016 - 09:38pm PT
you waving your arms

And the predictable dog-pile begins. LOL

I've ALREADY provided links, citations of statutes (which you can EASILY find for yourself on the State Department website), and analysis repeatedly. You guys repeatedly turn a BLIND eye, so I don't waste my time on it anymore. She's CLEARLY violated multiple FOIA statutes as well as engaged in AT LEAST criminal negligence in her handling of classified information. Her "shredding" in the face of a federal investigation is ITSELF criminal. And her joking about it is absolutely disgusting!

I'm just explaining to you the sense that MANY in this nation have today: The Hillabeast is ENTIRELY corrupted, OWNED by the very corporations/banks YOU guys SAY that you hate, and in FACT a criminal; and if Trump is the ONLY alternative our SICK system will allow, then we're FORCED to vote for Trump instead of the utterly corrupt slime that the Demoncrats are determined to foist off on us.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 28, 2016 - 09:39pm PT
vote for a bigot, and misogynist

You have LESS evidence to sustain that accusation than we ALL have to KNOW that the Hillabeast is in BED with the corps and banks, far less than the information that is EASILY available to compare statutes with her behaviors to see her criminality.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 28, 2016 - 10:05pm PT
dirtbag: I couldn't agree with you more. With Trump in the Oval Office, it will be the beginning of a new Dark Age in U.S. history.

madbolter1: Granted, Hillary isn't exactly the second coming, but to make the ludicrous assertion that just about any negative comment about Trump is unfair is simply mind-boggling. I suggest that you get someone to teach you how to turn on a TV set and radio as well as teach you how to read and operate a computer.

Trump is and has been a complete ass.hole every day of his sick and twisted life.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:54am PT
Trump is and has been a complete ass.hole every day of his sick and twisted life.

Absolutely, and I'm not even trying to deny it! I'm speaking to particular accusations against him and saying that the ones here denying that Clinton is full-blown "establishment" and criminal are the sames ones who make particular accusations against Trump with even less evidence.

She is "establishment" in every sense, and she stands for everything in the way of corporate greed and abuses that everybody here SAYS they oppose!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:59am PT
Trump's repeated trips to bankruptcy and divorce court speak to his true 'character'.

What HE'S done is entirely legal.

Clinton's repeated trips to her lawyers and computer professionals to "cleanse" her server (in the face of congressional and FBI inquiry, and in clear violation of FOIA law) speak to her true 'criminality'.

She's beyond just a Trumpian "sleazy". She's as sleazy as he is, but establishment and criminal to boot.

So, what are you guys going to do (and say here) if she finally IS indicted by the FBI and the DoJ? The "she hasn't been charged nor convicted" is gonna seem might THIN at that point.

What would it take for you to admit that her situation is NOT just the result of some "right-wing conspiracy"?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 29, 2016 - 05:36am PT
It's hopeless. Vote for Trump. It's clear he represents your views.

When she is NOT indicted and IS cleared of any intentional wrongdoing, will you apologize for your 1,237 posts about her e-mails?

My guess is NO. (Ok caps lock off). You've already previewed your next conspiracy theory...the DOJ is on the take! The prez put the word out, protect Hillary and my 3rd term!

The truth is Hillary has lived an exemplary life, is a decent person and a public servant. Like all of us, she has faults. She's going to be the Dem candidate for POTUS and will likely win. Doing so, she'll overcome the small mindedness of people willing to accept and repeat obvious lies about her.

Reasonable people will give her a second look.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 29, 2016 - 07:10am PT
Would it make sense that the criminal elements entrenched in our Federal Gov't and MIC would allow you to truly "vote them out".

No, no it wouldn't.

Federal elections are a circus to give the masses the illusion they have a choice.

You don't.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Feb 29, 2016 - 07:18am PT
You folks can go back and forth on Hil as much as you like--we're like a a hundred folks in a country that's millions of times that size. In the end, Hillary will not be able to beat Trump. All the polls show this.

If you want to keep Trump from painting the White House gold, you'd better start backing Sanders like no tomorrow. Hillary has not weathered the shitstorm that's been thrown at her for the past decade. The American people think she's shifty, and that's that.



Clinton is full-blown "establishment" and criminal are the sames ones who make particular accusations against Trump with even less evidence.

It's easy to type words. Harder is to be factual in the fantasies that you hold to be true.

There's a ton of evidence against Trump. Look at how he deals with things he doesn't like. Look at how he said he wanted to beat up some guy at one of his rallies for protesting.

That the media doesn't play this for what this represents is one of the more scary things around.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 08:09am PT
If you want to keep Trump from painting the White House gold, you'd better start backing Sanders like no tomorrow.


Nonsense. A socialist cannot win. Wake up.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Feb 29, 2016 - 08:30am PT
After Trump managed to not denouce the KKK yesterday:

Trump: "Well, just so you understand, I don't know anything about [former Ku Klux Klan head] David Duke. Okay? I don't know anything about what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So, I don't know. I don't know. Did he endorse me or what's going on, because, you know, I know nothing about David Duke. I know nothing about white supremacists. And so you're asking me a question that I'm supposed to be talking about people that I know nothing about. "

Rubio & Cruz are now denoucing Trump as a racist. It will be interesting to see if that is bad for Trump in the Republican primaries, since the Republican party has been very sympathetic to racists ever since the big switch-over in the south in the 1960's, when the racist Democrats mostly switched to being racist Republicans, due to laws & policies pushed by Presidents Kennedy & Johnson.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 08:33am PT
Trump blames a "bad earpiece" on his not understanding the CNN "disavow David Duke" thing. He says his FB page shows him posting that he had desavowed DD before the interview. I haven't looked at his FB page yet, but would also suggest seeing if the page can be viewed via the WayBack Machine, since FB posts can be predated.

Nonetheless, in the same article the above is mentioned, Trump appears to indicate that he will run as a Third Party Candidate if the RNC drumfs(tiny TM) him.
"Well, if they violate the pledge, which they've possibly already done, as you understand — if they violate the pledge, I will do something that will make them very unhappy," he warned. "I have millions of millions of followers."

To the RNC: PLEASE call this man on his bluff! YES, of course he will run independently. And yes, it is a risk because you will likely see Hillary(or Sanders, if it rolls that way, which I don't think is going to happen) win. But at LEAST you provide your party members an option where they can vote nobly.

WILL GOP's vote for Trump as the Republican candidate? Yes, of course they will, with the hopes that he can be reigned in once he is in office(if elected, I insist on adding, being a Democrat).

But really, ask yourself - Is 4 years of Democrat in the WH REALLY worse that Donald Trump in the WH and what it will do for the GOP? Take the long view.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/02/donald-trump-interview-kkk-219953?cmpid=sf
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 29, 2016 - 08:58am PT
#makedonalddrumpfagain
dirtbag

climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 09:03am PT
To the RNC: PLEASE call this man on his bluff! YES, of course he will run independently. And yes, it is a risk because you will likely see Hillary(or Sanders, if it rolls that way, which I don't think is going to happen) win. But at LEAST you provide your party members an option where they can vote nobly.

It's too late. A cnn poll released this morning shows his lead expanding to 49% nationally. The poll was taken before the David duke idiocy, but it won't dent his support much, if any.

The republican leadership f*#ked up BIG TIME. They sat around waiting for the problem to disappear and it never did.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 09:15am PT
By refusing to denounce Duke and the KKK the Donald probably picked up another
three million votes

white, male, undereducated (he loves them) and best of all racist

what's not to like?
dirtbag

climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 09:24am PT
A Republican senator says he "cannot" support Trump. I can't recall any senator during my lifetime, from either party, stating he/she wouldn't support their party's likely presidential candidate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/02/28/republican-senator-we-need-third-option-if-trump-wins-nomination/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_gopcivilwar810p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
dirtbag

climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 09:27am PT
Norton, I'm sure you're right. To me he seems like an off the cuff, random, babbling buffoon, but he knows his audience, and I'm sure he got guidance from his advisors before speaking.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 09:43am PT
http://freedomslighthouse.net/2016/02/28/donald-trump-disavowed-david-duke-endorsement-at-a-press-conference-on-friday-february-26-video-22616/


Can people give a listen and tell me if I am hearing correctly? What is it that Trump says as he is coming to to podium - before the question of David Duke comes up. I am in the library with no earphones and I played it twice at very low volume. I am pretty sure of what he says - but someone is now seated nearby and it is rude to have sound on, so I cannot give another listen.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 29, 2016 - 09:44am PT
Donald Trump is a racist. If you support him, you're fine with racism.
Bad earpiece, my ass.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Feb 29, 2016 - 11:28am PT
here's everything you need to know about the Trumpster...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 29, 2016 - 11:36am PT
Benghazi victims just endorsed TRUMP!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 29, 2016 - 11:41am PT
She is "establishment" in every sense, and she stands for everything in the way of corporate greed and abuses that everybody here SAYS they oppose!

One could say that, as would be true of every other politician running.

But with Trump, it rises to another level. He has clearly stated that he has "bought" politicians.

Hillary has not bought any politicians.

What's he going to buy with your tax dollars?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 29, 2016 - 11:44am PT
She's beyond just a Trumpian "sleazy". She's as sleazy as he is, but establishment and criminal to boot.

Actually, Trump is the one in trouble with the courts right now, for his fraudulent Trump University.

The judge in the New York case ruled last year Trump is personally liable for illegally operating a university without a proper license, the Post reports, but also ruled the statute of limitations prevents Schneiderman from seeking restitution for most of Trump University’s students. Schneiderman is appealing.

I'd give you the citation for all his illegal activity, but you can easily find it on the State Department website.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 11:44am PT
Pyro, you are supporting a man who is a bigot and mocks disabled people.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 29, 2016 - 11:55am PT
"It's too late. A cnn poll released this morning shows his lead expanding to 49% nationally. The poll was taken before the David duke idiocy, but it won't dent his support much, if any.

The republican leadership f*#ked up BIG TIME. They sat around waiting for the problem to disappear and it never did."

Which sort of asks the question: If they cannot adequately lead a party made up of people who voluntarily associate with them, how would it be possible to lead the country?

But as a registered Republican now, I am going to vote for Trump, and the reason is simple: So many people don't vote because they say there is no real choice between candidates, that both parties are the same, and there is no difference.

Trump IS different, and he represents a real choice from professional politicians, such as Marc O'Rubio

(after O'Bama, we want another Irishman?)
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 29, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
Trump IS different, and he represents a real choice

Trump is a breath of fresh air..


Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 29, 2016 - 12:24pm PT
when the issue of being able to lead, Conservative thought leaders have this:

Perhaps Bill Kristol’s wrongest and most consequential predictions were those involving the war in Iraq.

As an advocate of the Bush administration’s decision to invade Iraq, he said, among other things, that the war “could have terrifically good effects throughout the Middle East”; that Saddam Hussein was “past that finish line” in developing nuclear weapons; that “if we free the people of Iraq we will be respected in the Arab world.” He also said, “Very few wars in American history were prepared better or more thoroughly than this one by this president.” He predicted on C-SPAN that it would be a “two-month war, not an eight-year war.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Feb 29, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
If you haven't seen the John Oliver segment on Trump posted up by tuolumne_tradster, watch it.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
Ken M!!!1

"But as a registered Republican now, I am going to vote for Trump..."

"...and the reason is simple: So many people don't vote because they say there is no real choice between candidates, that both parties are the same, and there is no difference."

KenM!!!!1
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 29, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
Trump is the perfect candidate for the current state of broadcast "journalism." No one reports on substance, only on poll movements. This causes people to examine personalities rather than policy priorities. Trump's supporters say that "politicians" cause the problems. I grew up with the idea that politics is the art of the possible, and politicians bring divergent, seemingly contradictory, positions together in ways that people can live with, and therefore make governments work. I was raised with the idea that governments exist to foster compromise. Now, too many political purists, seemingly mostly on the right, view compromise as a sin.

Anyone who listened to the exchanges between Trump and Rubio in the last debate couldn't help but notice the complete absence of policy principles from Trump. His supporters don't care. They just want someone who doesn't seem to let polls guide him or her, who seems capable of making a deal, and who offers simple solutions to all problems.

For example, Trump says that he'll deal with ISIS by "bombing the hell out of them." That's certainly a simple solution to a complex problem, but only if you ignore history. His followers don't want to bother listening to someone like Victor Davis Hanson, who pointed out in his column yesterday that bombing, or any other armed intervention that is followed by a quick exit, has never helped resolve any United States foreign policy problem.

In short, at least to me, Trump offers an alternative to reality. In Trump's campaign rhetoric, every problem gets solved easily, to everyone's satisfaction, and at no one's (or at least no voter's) expense. It's a variant of Bernie's campaign, the only difference being that in Bernie's campaign, "the rich" pay for everything, but no one is a member of the set of "the rich."

I'm sorry, but I just cannot bring myself to support a Trump candidacy. The first election in which I took an active interest was 1960's Nixon-Kennedy contest. If there's anything I've learned in the 56 years since, it's this: elections without policy issues always favor Democrats. Trump may seem a breath of fresh air because he doesn't seem to temper his words, but the air I sense is poisonous.

John
dirtbag

climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
Another good post, John, and I agree with you about Bernie.

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 29, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
The modern US president is a figurehead at best. A good puppet that will do what he or she is told to do by their handlers.

Although there's no way to be certain, I felt that Obama, the man anyway, was a decent person at the start before reality struck. It's a no-win job that nobody would want except a foolish narcissist. You can almost see it in his eyes now that he knows what he cannot change.

Anyone who could truly make the changes necessary would be marginalized at the start, ignored, ridiculed, and ultimately simply erased if those tactics failed to end a honest person's run for the position.

Trump's no fool and no puppet and therefore has no interest in the job. What would it get him? So why the charade? The show must go on... and what a show it is.

I still think he's just pushing as hard as he can to jump the shark, but the funny thing is, it's not working! The comment about shooting someone was the tell... He's not that stupid.

pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
For example, Trump says that he'll deal with ISIS by "bombing the hell out of them." That's certainly a simple solution to a complex problem, but only if you ignore history. His followers don't want to bother listening to someone like Victor Davis Hanson, who pointed out in his column yesterday that bombing, or any other armed intervention that is followed by a quick exit, has never helped resolve any United States foreign policy problem.

ISIS is not a "foreign policy problem".

They are here and working among us.
They are a threat to the American people on home soil.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
ISIS is not a "foreign policy problem".

They are here and working among us.

I agree, pud. So how is "bombing the hell [I think he probably used a different noun] out of them" going to solve the problem?

That brings up a larger issue, though. Most foreign policy problems affect the United States internally, too.

John
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
Now that Pyro is obviously trolling...

I like him a little better...


EDITED:

But I liked him better one year, three months, two days and five hours ago...


Cry'n time again lucker
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
Donald Trump is a racist. If you support him, you're fine with racism.

Your saying it doesn't make it so, anymore than my saying the Hillabeast is a criminal doesn't make it so. The evidence in both cases must be weighed.

Even if he is, I and MANY other Americans are convinced that she's a criminal, so:

Better a racist than a criminal in the WH!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
Better a racist
Tell us something we didn't already know.

The evidence in both cases must be weighed.
Your bag is empty. Just hot air. No crimes, no legal action...zip. Just hokum conspiracy theories. Trump, meanwhile, leaves evidence of his bigotry every other sentence.


Here it is from a Republican strategist, Stuart Stevens:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/29/a-vote-for-donald-trump-is-a-vote-for-bigotry.html
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:34pm PT

Better a racist than a criminal in the WH!

the lesser of two evils
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
Trump has not said or done a single thing that is not fully in line with mainstream republican beliefs. Why wouldn't all republicans support him?

While one might bemoan the lack of substance republican primary it merely reflects the party itself, which for the past decade has done nothing but excrete butthurt over everything Obama says or does. It has offered not a single piece of real world legislation, foreign policy or anything else. At least Bush had the guts to actually lead, albeit catastrophically.
Norton

Social climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
Even if he is, I and MANY other Americans are convinced that she's a criminal, so:

and 85% of American adults believe that Etherial Spirits are real, as in Angels

wasn't very long ago that everyone on earth believed this planet was flat

point being that polling the population to support your personal bias is..well, BS

now stop being such an arrogant, know it all prick, it does not buy you any credibility
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:40pm PT
but it isn't...

Right back atcha.

But that makes a double-negative.

Which is a positive.

So my logic must be sensible after all.

Double-stampie, no-erasie.

(Such is the "level" of "discussion" here.)
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
now stop being such an arrogant, know it all prick

Right back atcha.

I'm not arguing FROM that fact that MANY Americans think she's a criminal. My point is that MANY Americans are not so partisan that they cannot interpret the clear facts as they are publicly known.

As I said before, simply compare publicly posted legal statutes against the Hillabeast's KNOWN behaviors, and there is no other conclusion to draw.

This is not an ad populum fallacy nor a partisan perspective. Could the Demoncrats find the balls to put up Bernie, I would prefer him over Trump. But you commit to the witch, and MANY of us are not gonna go for it!
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
So how is "bombing the hell [I think he probably used a different noun] out of them" going to solve the problem?



I don't think anyone ever said it would solve the problem but, it does damage their ability to coordinate attacks.

There are no peace talks with ISIS. We are the infidels and must be eliminated.
It's us or them. That's a fact.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
We are bombing the sh#t out of them. Short of hitting targets where large numbers of civilians live, there aren't many more obvious targets to hit. .
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
commit to the witch,

Bigotry And misogyny...the daily double!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
We are bombing the sh#t out of them

Dirt, don't go risking yer Top Secret clearance by disclosing yer BDA analysis!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
Bigotry And misogyny...the daily double!

Criminality, fallacy, and intentional-blindness! It's a triple!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
fwiw,




"I find these results from my audience a little alarming." -SH

"Based on that poll, it seems many Sanders supporters hate Clinton so much, they will either vote for (or not vote against) Trump." -SH
dirtbag

climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
Dirt, don't go risking yer Top Secret clearance by disclosing yer BDA analysis!

Reilly I am far too dumb to perform such an analysis: you should know that by now.

But several analysts who seem to know what they are doing say that the US is dropping about as many bombs as it can.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
Dirt, mon cher, I am intimately aware of the millions of tons of ordnance
dropped in Viet Nam, most of it in the mud. We killed a lot of bugs and
reptiles. While we may be using a lot of 'precision' weaponry these days
I am still very loathe to accept anything from the Pentagon at face value.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:21pm PT
I don't think anyone ever said it would solve the problem but, it does damage their ability to coordinate attacks.

There are no peace talks with ISIS. We are the infidels and must be eliminated.
It's us or them. That's a fact.

And where, inside the United States, would you drop those bombs to damage their ability to coordinate?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
commit to the witch,


Oh, that simply feeds into the narrative that conservatives actually think of women as lesser beings, deserving of little respect.

So you've escalated from her committing crimes, to her being evil.

(without evidence in either case)
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
Criminality

I missed the trial...was it televised? No? Oh, you mean it was in the courtroom of your mind.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:28pm PT
There were 11 hours of, um...something televised last October about Benghazi or something.

I forget--what did they find again?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
You 2 spend a lot of time defending Hillary.

If she get's the nomination,you guys are going to be busy.

Just saying.


Edit; I am going to vote for her,but,quite a few will not.

pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:35pm PT
And where, inside the United States, would you drop those bombs to damage their ability to coordinate?

Many of your posts show some intellect then, there are these.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:41pm PT

Welcome to the ‪#‎TrumpTrain‬, Sarah Huckabee Sanders!

Donald J. Trump for President Inc. announced Sarah Huckabee Sanders joined the campaign as a Senior Advisor.

Mr. Trump stated, “I have great respect for Governor Mike Huckabee and we have a mutual admiration for our wonderful families. It is great to have his daughter, Sarah, join the campaign.”

Sarah added, “I volunteered to join Mr. Trump’s campaign because he is a champion of working families; not Washington-Wall Street elites. Like the other Republican candidates, Mr. Trump is pro-life, pro-marriage, and will appoint conservatives to the courts. What makes Mr. Trump my choice for president is he will break the grip of the donor class on our government and make it accountable to working families again. I’m honored to help Mr. Trump Make America Great Again.”

Sarah Huckabee Sanders has advised presidential campaigns and Fortune 500 companies and has been named 40 under 40 by Time Magazine. She lives in Little Rock, Arkansas with her husband Bryan and their three young children.

Donald Trump
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
Pud, I'm sorry to have confused you over your own statements.

When John E responded to you:

ISIS is not a "foreign policy problem".

They are here and working among us.
=
I agree, pud. So how is "bombing the hell [I think he probably used a different noun] out of them" going to solve the problem?

That brings up a larger issue, though. Most foreign policy problems affect the United States internally, too.

John

You appear to have lost the point of his question to you, which was "If they are here, and among us, how is "bombing the hell out of them" going to solve the problem.

In other words, you are advocating bombing the US, where they are located???

And then, having misunderstood all that, you responded:

I don't think anyone ever said it would solve the problem but, it does damage their ability to coordinate attacks.

So I've asked the logical question, WHERE would you drop those bombs on those ISIS folks located here in the US, among us, so as to damage their ability to coordinate?

Is that simple enough? What are your targets? The bombers are waiting.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:51pm PT
^^^

In response to Pyro's above post...



I either like more or less now...


Can't decide...

go complain to RJ I don't have time for that coward sh#t...

dirtbag

climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
Willbeer, yes, if she wins, it will be a busy summer and fall.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 29, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
that's what you get when you tell the security guy to eff off.

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/security-at-trump-event-choke-1375771344773174.html
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 29, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
The war with ISIS is fought on many fronts and not all strategies work everywhere.
The jihadists here in the U.S. can be filtered out and detained.
The enemy's bases in nations that allow their existence can be bombed or eliminated by whatever means available.

What part don't you get, ken?
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Feb 29, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
What does a thong
and trumps toupee
have in common?


































They both barely cover
an aszhole.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 29, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
Pyro is an emotionally stunted racist, misogyinstic creep who sees a kindred spirit in Trump.

It's difficult to ignore him, though, since I have no hesitation to nominate him as the most breathtakingly stupid person I have ever encountered on line, or anywhere else for that matter.

Maybe he's someone's idea of a joke and I just don't get it.

EDIT:

pud: what YOU don't get is that dropping bombs on people is by nature indiscriminate, and dubya Bush's total destruction of Iraq created Daesh (ISIS). Those guys aren't sitting around patiently waiting for someone to drop a bomb on them - they've got a nasty habit of hiding out among innocent civilians.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 29, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
locker: Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 29, 2016 - 03:30pm PT

LOL!!!...

Fuk...

I better call RJ and see about having my account deleted...

be sure to turn on the tears.


WART you are a broken record
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 29, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
pyro: Well, unlike you, I'm not a racist, misogynistic idiot.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 29, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
conservatives actually think of women as lesser beings

I don't know who you are talking about. Can't be me! I don't think that.

I call her a witch because she is a she, and she is evil. If she were a he, I'd call her a warlock to be comparable. How you get sexism out of that means that you INTEND to be uncharitable, which is no surprise, as that's the nature of intellectual dishonesty.

Stay with me now: The emphasis is on the EVIL, not the GENDER! I'm just using the gender-appropriate term for evil.

Mmm-kay?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 29, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
Burn her at the stake!

Nah... we have prisons now for the sort of thing. Not so strange.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 29, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
Again I won't vote for either, but

Trump, through his own words, has shown himself to be racist, misogynistic, bigoted, and a demagogue.

Hilary probably illegally put secret emails on her home server. May have tried to minimize the fallout from an embassy attack. Oh yeah that's much worse, lol! It's hard to believe people think that perhaps being dishonest to make yourself look better is way worse than being a total ahole.

I always laugh when the cons use terms like Hillabeast, Obummer, etc. It's like they think using those insulting terms somehow degrades the person they are talking about, when all it does is identifies themselves as a total tool. Not that I'm against comedy at the expense of any politician one either side of the aisle, Bill Clinton was a comedy goldmine for years. But again it's comedy meaning it's funny. Grade school names show the mentality of the user, not the person being called the name. It shows the person can't be reasoned with. They have their mind shut like steel trap to any other way of looking at things.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 29, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
cosmiccragsman: You were the guy who told me that you "knew much much more" than me about the ideals the troops for in WW II, while refusing to view the film series commissioned by the U.S. Army to educate those who served.

I asked you to enlighten me with your wisdom. You ran away and hid like you always do when challenged, so I guess you've got an idea how much your nomination means to me..

madbolder1: witches and warlocks are most definitely NOT evil, assuming you are referring to those who are Wiccans. Whether it conflicts with your value system (assuming you have any) or not, Wicca is a nature worshipping belief system that specifically rejects evil behaviour. I'm far from an expert on this stuff, but I encourage anyone who respects the truth to do their own research and form their own opinions.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
I almost think that Trump is either a democrat plant, or the media is hyping him to assure the democrat victory.
Anti-establishment populism has overtaken a republican party that got out of touch with almost everyone. Republicans are the stupid party and their chickens are coming home to roost.

I don't see Trump as a racist, that word means absolutely nothing anymore.
He is all NY bluster, rifting off the top of his head and taking advantage of the populist and anti-Politically Correct sentiment of the working middle class.

If Bernie gets the nomination, all bets are off on what will happen. The democrat and republican establishments may run 3rd or 4th candidates, knowing that Bernie or Trump are wildcards.
Romney, Bloomberg, Biden, Kerry?

Tomorrow will be the big tell on where it all goes.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
The newspapers misheard what Trump said, about the David Duke fiasco. Listen to him in the videos. He said
"I'm sitting in a house in Florida, with a very bad hairpiece that they gave me, and you could hardly hear what he was saying," said Trump.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 29, 2016 - 04:56pm PT
Hillary has been completely cleared of any negligence whatsoever relative to Benghazi. The victims families should congratulate her for her service to the country as an outstanding Secretary of State. And they should resist being political pawns of the radical rightwing.

Residents of California can rest easy that she will carry the state by 10+ points.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 29, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
she is evil

She is exactly the evil necessary to combat the bigotry of the now fringe right gop - you don't send a creampuff into a knife fight, you send the nastiest, castrating bitch around.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
Yeah, but Vince foster.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 29, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
One fact lots of you ignore; repub turnout has been record breaking in every state so far while the dem turnout has been low. Now, how exactly does that translate into a Hildabeast win in the general?
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 29, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
locker: If I read you wrong, my apologies. I can't stand that weasel pyro.

cosmiccragsman: Not my day. It was couchmaster. Apologies for the error.

Norton

Social climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
One fact lots of you ignore; repub turnout has been record breaking in every state so far while the dem turnout has been low. Now, how exactly does that translate into a Hildabeast win in the general?

well, let me see if I can help you with an explanation to your question, Rick

you see, all of the media attention is on the Republican show right now with four
candidates versus two for the Democrats

secondly, for a long time now most everyone following this thing knows that Hillary Clinton will be the nominee, Sanders has no chance, and so there is no contest to excitedly talk about day and night like there is with your Republicans

thirdly, all the bing, all the talk is about Republican Donald Trump, people hear about him constantly, they are curious and he has excited and pulled out of the woodwork
a new Republican demographic, the white, male, undereducated group, he speaks to them and their language and they are turning out to vote for him at the primaries

But you know as well as I do Rick that only one thing truly matters and that is that you have to have 270 votes in the Electoral College to become President, the national popular vote does not matter at all, what matters is the target rich high population individual states and how many Electoral Votes they deliver.

And one other thing Rick, the path to 270 is actually pretty easy for Mrs. Clinton
and almost impossible nowadays for a Republican.....so better move to Canada because you will have to suffer through 8 years of a woman after 8 years of a black President, pull your pants up, you can do it
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 29, 2016 - 05:58pm PT
Obama possibly wouldn't have been elected if it wasn't for Sara Palin (and W). I think McCain was the best Republican nominee in years.

Hillary wouldn't be elected after 8 years of Obama if it wasn't for Trump (or Cruz).

The takeover of the GOP by the demagogic right has got them what they deserve.

If you think the right hate Obama, wait until the 90s hate of Hilary is restored and multiplied by 10. I can see how Obama's mannerisms come off as smug, but Hillary can come off as way more irritating for some reason. Be prepared for more red faced ranting and irrational hate. It's going to get even uglier.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Feb 29, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
I like Rubio's latest attack on Trump:
"You Know What They Say About Men With Small Hands, You Can't Trust Them"

LOL!

Austin Powers: There are only two things in this world that scare me and one is nuclear war.
Basil: What’s the other?
Austin Powers: Huh?
Basil: What’s the other thing that scares you?
Austin Powers: Carnies. Circus folk. Nomads, you know. Smell like cabbage. Small hands.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Feb 29, 2016 - 06:10pm PT

One fact lots of you ignore; repub turnout has been record breaking in every state so far while the dem turnout has been low. Now, how exactly does that translate into a Hildabeast win in the general?

You don't get it do you summer? The repubs are voting for trump hoping he does get the nod, because there is no way he will beat a dem. trump does not have the support of any minority, furthermore, many repubs will turn tail and vote for a dem in the ge. Remember, sixty to seventy percent of repubs don't like trump. I would be surprised if Jeb doesn't vote for a Hillary.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 29, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
Well Norton, it's a populist election against the status quo. That percentage has and will turnout. Now, who the hell can get excited about turning out for an old gas bag from the establishment past? She certainly hasn't motivated the population yet. That is her problem and she's not showman enough to entertain her way out of it.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 29, 2016 - 06:32pm PT
"I, Donald Trump, do solemnly swear," is enough motivation for most.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Feb 29, 2016 - 06:33pm PT
James Brennan's analysis of the "Why We Fight" films is simple-minded at best, as is his ignorance of the real causes of WW II - not to mention an insult to the intelligence of those who served in that conflict.

Perhaps he could start another thread to explain these amazing assertions in greater detail without cluttering up this one. It would be better if he actually read a few history books first, though.

As for his deranged non-sequiturs...????

rick sumner: so the solution is to vote for a racist, misogynistic bully like Trump? Great idea. Let's not even consider the lesser of two evils if Bernie goes.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Feb 29, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
James Brennan's analysis of the "Why We Fight" films is simple-minded at best,

Well, we all know that James Brennan guy is a total loser who couldn't tell a good film from a bad one, and has never climbed anything anyway, so that settles that.

But since you, with your vast knowledge of both politics and film, are posting tonight, I should ask how you view "Why We Fight" in comparison to "Triumph of Will". They're pretty similar in some ways, don't you think?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 29, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
Rick, did you get your degree in Mysogyny from Trump University?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 29, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
Mysogyny Crank? Your confused,the thing is obviously a bull dike if not the first tranny-why else would Bill be so frustrated to be out assaulting the female populace.
Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Feb 29, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
I almost think that Trump is either a democrat plant, or the media is hyping him to assure the democrat victory.

It's not beyond the realm of the possible.

Trump took the call from his office in Trump Tower in New York, according to the four allies, who requested anonymity because they are not authorized to speak publicly. The call came as Trump was making a final decision about whether to run, and he was candid about his political ambitions and his potential interest in seeking the White House during the talk, these allies said.

The 42nd president listened intently and then analyzed Trump’s prospects and his desire to rouse the GOP base, the Trump allies said.

The tone of the call was informal, and Clinton never urged Trump to run, the four people said. Rather, they said, Clinton sounded curious about Trump’s moves toward a presidential bid and told Trump that he was striking a chord with frustrated conservatives and was a rising force on the right.

One person with knowledge of Clinton’s end of the call said the former president was upbeat and encouraging during the conversation, which occurred as Trump was speaking out about GOP politics and his prescriptions for the nation…

It is not difficult to imagine Bill's laughter the moment after he hung up the phone.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 29, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
This is some quality sh!t slinging here! I will rest well tonight knowing such a font of
sagacity exists. War is hell, but SuperTopo makes it hella worse.

BTW, the Tongan elevator dude on a house I did in Beverly Hills slung some sh!t Oprah's
way after he put hers in up by Santa Barbara. He said she was no democrat, unless
democrats are supposed to bow and scrape but Tongans don't take to that sh!t. She was
too skinny for his likes, too.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Feb 29, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
Reilly, Reilly, Reilly! Re your summary of your post on this thread:

but SuperTopo makes it hella worse.


You and the Donald need to get your insults under control.

hella worse
is always pronounced as:

hellawefalot wurst
here in Idaho.

We need to talk with Moosedrool about it, but perhaps it is a Polish insult?


Soooo- ST Pundits & Poseurs? What do you really think about "The Donald" perhaps winning all the Super Tuesday states?

Don't hold back.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 29, 2016 - 09:44pm PT
Classy, Rick. Those jokes must play well around your idea of a campfire. You know, you prove the point that Trump didn't create his voters, they were already there, under the surface, waiting for their leader. You and Trump are a perfect match.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 29, 2016 - 10:01pm PT
Fritzi, The Donald is America's Karmic price for eating the Bundys' cows.
It's gotta get worse before it gets better. Let them eat pita bread.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Feb 29, 2016 - 10:08pm PT
I don't vote anymore -- a single cell amoeba could be elected, and nobody would even know the difference.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 29, 2016 - 10:15pm PT
Nah Crank. My ideology is more aligned with Ted Cruz, but unless he can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat I have to go with the winner-excluding Rubio of course. There has to be a crackdown on corruption and reversal of our present course. Many, many pols of both stripes must be drummed out or prosecuted and their little socialist droog supporters put on the other side of the wall.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 29, 2016 - 10:20pm PT
JB, does Justin eat at McDonalds or is he a strict Hortonian?
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Feb 29, 2016 - 10:22pm PT
*
Timid's cousins from Switzerland have been at our home for the last 5 days..Big Fun...
They told us most of Europe is appalled by trump's popularity and rise to power in the U.S.
We told them many American's feel the same way...

Finally catching up with the National news and some Night shows chuckles..
donald drumpf
[Click to View YouTube Video]


oops, Just noticed Tuolumne tradster posted this up already..
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Feb 29, 2016 - 10:35pm PT
Wow, Rick Sumner - just wow.

*shakes head sadly*
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Feb 29, 2016 - 10:42pm PT
How ya gonna tell who's in the crowd at the Republican Convention if everyone's wearing a hood? Cross burning inside? Outside?

nah000

climber
no/w/here
Feb 29, 2016 - 11:13pm PT
that was one of the best John Oliver segments I've ever seen him do... thanks Nita.



anybody who would cast a vote for a man who has repeatedly stated:

But we're fighting a very politically correct war. And the other thing is with the terrorists, you have to take out their families. They, they care about their lives. Don’t kid yourself. But they say they don’t care about their lives. You have to take out their families.

is supporting a man who has openly and repeatedly pledged that he would kill innocent people and commit war crimes. and that's only one of the ways trump has advocated war crimes as a way "forward".



this is the first time in my lifetime that the usual, if ---------- gets elected president then i'm moving to ---------, should be more than just a metaphor, and be under serious consideration by anyone with even a most cursory understanding of history.

while i still believe that trump will not become president, i also didn't think eight months ago that there was any chance he'd become the republican candidate...

and so at first this was entertaining in the same way that watching an empty building begin to explode with the fireworks of demolition, is entertaining...



and then you look again and realize the building is still filled with people.



you scary america.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 1, 2016 - 03:05am PT
rumor has it the Donald has settled on a compatible running mate.




























fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 1, 2016 - 06:26am PT
Tan Mom is the best....
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 1, 2016 - 07:04am PT
Tongans don't take to that sh!t. She was
too skinny for his likes, too.

Tongans are so fat they have to dance sitting down.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 08:08am PT
A vote for trump is a vote for a loathesome piece of racist garbage, and a step towards fascism and isolation.

Good morning!
jstan

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 08:10am PT
The link to an Oliver vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ

Donald Drumpf?

We need the contest to continue as it presently exists all the way up to the election, if the status of the republican party is to be revealed in its entirety; and the makeup of Congress changed, we need there to be a third party candidacy.

Edit:
Earlier I commented that while we have for decades accepted the reporting of news as a form of entertainment( infotainment), Trump now acts to make elections a form of entertainment(electainment).

If Trump choses to undertake a third party candidacy for reasons not entirely clear to us, we may have to accept as a possibility that he is a patriot.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 1, 2016 - 08:10am PT
dirtbag so after super Tuesday do u suppose its time for trump to run third party to win more votes showing that he really is interested in being president?
dirtbag

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 08:15am PT
Why would he do that? He's probably going to win the nomination as a republican.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 08:21am PT
Mysogyny Crank? Your confused,the thing is obviously a bull dike if not the first tranny-why else would Bill be so frustrated to be out assaulting the female populace.

Shame on you.


On a tangent,
I just had a visual thought of Hillary Clinton during the first time "Hail to the Chief" gets fired up under her command. GAAAH, how that is going to stick in the craws of the misogynists. Brings a joyful tear to my eye, it does.


Oh, and I LOVE Dingus' sandwich pictures which are always accompanied by little stories. He is an exceptional storyteller.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 1, 2016 - 08:22am PT
just because those evil traditional republicans want him out..
guess this is another separation from the wigs movement from the late 1800's
dirtbag

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 08:24am PT
We will know in the coming weeks how receptive the party is to his candidacy. The party seems to be struggling right now to make up its mind about him.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 08:30am PT
Whigs, Pyro, not wigs.

The Wigs party is the one dancing to the piper Drumpf.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 1, 2016 - 08:31am PT


We will know in the coming weeks how receptive the party is to his candidacy. The party seems to be struggling right now to make up its mind about him.

The Republican Party may not survive this election.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 08:35am PT
Nationally that could be the case. But they are still strong in most states.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 1, 2016 - 08:58am PT
When Trump tells us how smart he is, he proves how stupid he is..
dirtbag

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 09:18am PT
An explanation why crossing party lines to vote for Trump to sabotage republicans is a very risky idea:

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11135388/trump-general-election

Bottom line: trump might win because he has crossover appeal to swing/moderate voters, and all predictions about his impending demise have so far been proven wrong. No one really knows what to expect this year. Don't underestimate him.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 09:28am PT
Tact...


Empathy, too. Insulting a reporter's disability? Really? That's a peek into his heart.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 1, 2016 - 09:34am PT
The Republican Party may not survive this election.

The Republican party has survived for a long time now on the premise that "we suck less than the other guy". Which, by the way is a telling commentary about Democrats as well.

They have understood the absolute critical need to perpetuate the "vote for a winner" mentality. Otherwise people might get inspired to vote for a candidate that holds more value than the possibility of a win.

But people are starting to realize that Republican candidates don't really suck THAT much less than the other guy, and are deciding to vote for the candidate that holds more value than the least worst option.

Its a slow roll, but the Republicans can't haul enough water to convince me (or a growing number of others) that their candidate is worth voting for just on the strength of the Democrat boogeyman.


EDIT: In the meantime, I am perfectly happy with a completely hogtied and ineffective government that can do absolutely nothing.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 1, 2016 - 09:43am PT
Bottom line: trump might win because he has crossover appeal to swing/moderate voters, and all predictions about his impending demise have so far been proven wrong. No one really knows what to expect this year. Don't underestimate him.

I don't think there's much evidence that Trump has any crossover appeal to swing or moderate voters. He doesn't even appeal to moderate Republicans. I think the thing for Democrats to worry about is low voter turnout--particularly if Hillary is the party's nominee.

Curt
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 1, 2016 - 09:46am PT
I propose we start a new Supertopo party..... The "team" color shall be green.

We might not agree, but at least we're not sociopaths encouraging or directly responsible for murder/genocide. It's a good start.

dirtbag

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 09:54am PT
I don't think there's much evidence that Trump has any crossover appeal to swing or moderate voters. He doesn't even appeal to moderate Republicans. I think the thing for Democrats to worry about is low voter turnout--particularly if Hillary is the party's nominee.

The article has data showing some crossover appeal. He is also no doubt repugnant to many potential crossover voters who are not willing to overlook his toxic personality and shallow understanding of issues. Nonetheless, the upshot of the article is to be very careful of making assumptions this year about Trump's strengths.

And btw, I'm not sure that sabotage voting for trump is as risky as the article implies. It's just an interesting read.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 1, 2016 - 10:01am PT
'Conventional Wisdom' has has proven its infallibility ad nauseum.
You dismiss Trump's appeal at yer peril.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 10:09am PT
Escopeta posted
The Republican party has survived for a long time now on the premise that "we suck less than the other guy". Which, by the way is a telling commentary about Democrats as well.


Interesting that the facts don't back that up at all.




But don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 1, 2016 - 10:09am PT
Locker, yer saying a 13 year old shouldn't be POTUS?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 1, 2016 - 10:13am PT
"I'm not going to be PC" is code for "I lack empathy and I'm just going to be an ahole"

I think the election will be closer than many Dems believe, but Dem turnout will be high, especially among minorities, because Trump is so awful.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 10:18am PT
8 weeks now from having a titanium rod and screws put in my spine.

Trump can now include me with those twisted cripples he mocks.

But you will vote him won't you, because at least he is not a Democrat.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 1, 2016 - 10:21am PT
Best of luck Norton.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 1, 2016 - 10:34am PT
Said Locker: Maybe I should run for President...

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 1, 2016 - 11:17am PT

DONALD J. TRUMP ENDORSED BY NASCAR CEO AND DRIVERS

(Valdosta, GA) February 29th, 2016 – Today Donald J. Trump was endorsed by Brian France, Chairman & CEO of NASCAR, popular retired driver Bill Elliott, and active drivers Chase Elliott, Ryan Newman, and David Lee Regan. France, Elliott, and the drivers endorsed Mr. Trump at a rally attended by thousands in Valdosta, Georgia just one day before the Super Tuesday primary.

Mr. Trump said, “I am proud to receive the endorsement of such an iconic brand and a quality person such as Brian. Brian has a wonderful family and is an incredibly successful business person. I have great respect for Brian and I am grateful for his support and that of Bill Elliott, one of the best drivers in history, and active stock car racers, including his son Chase Elliott, Ryan Newman and David Lee Regan.”

Brian France added, “Mr. Trump is changing American politics forever and his leadership and strength are desperately needed. He has had an incredible career and achieved tremendous success. This is what we need for our country.”

Bill Elliott said, “It is my great honor to endorse Mr. Trump for President of the United States. He is a leader representing strength and common sense solutions.”

These influential endorsements come just days after former Presidential candidate and New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, and Senator Jeff Sessions, recognized by many as the conservative soul of the U.S. Senate, offered their endorsements of the republican frontrunner.

Mr. Trump continues to dominate in state and national polls with the most recent survey from CNN showing Mr. Trump with 49% support nationwide.

Donald Trump
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 1, 2016 - 11:23am PT
Mr. Trump continues to dominate in state and national polls with the most recent survey from CNN showing Mr. Trump with 49% support nationwide.

1) That's 49% of Republicans only for that one poll.

2) National polls are meaningless.

Curt
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 11:27am PT
They're not meaningless, they just aren't that helpful for understanding the primary outcomes.
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Mar 1, 2016 - 11:30am PT
*
Couchmaster,
IMO, I think Miss Noonan missed the whole component of people being influenced by talk radio, hate radio, Fox news, and the internet ....
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Time for a little music break and back to work for me....Muscle Shoals is a great little documentary.
[Click to View YouTube Video]

edit: JEleazarian, for below.... you are missing the point of the clip.. That movie was made in 2011..



dirtbag

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 11:42am PT
Long and fascinating (that's what she said) look at authoritarianism in today's political parties (with data!). Authoritarian tendencies in some Americans goes a long way towards explaining the differences between the parties and Trump's ascendancy. Most of Trump's supporters exhibit such tendencies, which we often see in this thread.

Worth a read if you have half an hour so.

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 1, 2016 - 11:43am PT
They're not meaningless, they just aren't that helpful for understanding the primary outcomes.

Or presidential election outcomes. Nate Silver has explained quite well why this is the case.

Curt
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 1, 2016 - 11:47am PT
A very interesting article from Money Magazine as to why the Trump keeps on ticking:

With 12 states choosing delegates, seven of them in the Republican’s southern core, Super Tuesday was supposed to be a dream date for the GOP establishment. One big day to wrap up the intra-party discussion and focus on defeating the Democrats.

Instead, it’s almost certain that the vote will cement Donald Trump’s status as the Republican front runner, and increasingly possible that it will pretty much seal off Marco Rubio’s path to the nomination. So what happened?

Here’s one answer: Hurricanes don’t come out of nowhere. Trump may feel like a freak storm for the GOP. But it’s taken years—actually, decades—of economic dislocation for the Republican’s core Super Tuesday constituency to get here.

There are many ways to measure the health of a society: income, accumulated wealth, overall feelings of happiness. One number, though, that nicely summarizes most of them is life expectancy. It’s really one of the most direct ways of calculating how much better off we are.

For most of the country the answer that we get from looking at changes in life expectancy over two decades is “a fair amount.” From 1990 to 2010 the average lifespan of white women in the U.S. increased by about 1 year and 11 months (you can see detailed data for 2010 from the Social Science Research Council here, and historical data from the Census Bureau here); for men it was close to four years.

But that doesn’t hold true for white voters in many of the Super Tuesday states. Five of the states holding primaries tomorrow fall in the bottom 10 of the country for life expectancy. In several Super Tuesday states, life expectancy for white women barely budged. In two—Alabama and Oklahoma—white women's lifespans actually declined.

That kind of turnabout is almost unprecedented in peacetime economies. Nobody has a definitive answer about what’s causing this but we do have a really good clue: Lifespans aren’t falling across the board. Instead, they’re dropping dramatically for those at the bottom of the economic ladder.

When S. Jay Olshansky, a public health researcher at the University of Illinois-Chicago, probed deeper into the numbers, it turned out that life expectancy for white women without high school degrees is overwhelmingly driving the mortality epidemic. That has everything to do with where folks stand in the economic pecking order. “Education,” says Olshansky, “is a proxy for access to jobs and access to health care.”

The poor, in other words, are less likely to finish school, less likely to get jobs, and less likely to be able to afford (or seek out) medical treatment. That downward spiral has been accelerating dramatically. "The harmful effects of being poor and less educated are more harmful than they were several years ago," says Olshansky.

The trend now seems to be playing out in an extreme way in the Super Tuesday states. In a word, the life expectancy data implies that poor whites are now experiencing the kinds of cascading crises (job loss, eviction, lack of health care) that have afflicted poor blacks—whose life expectancy remains lower, but at least is rising—for many years. This may not have affected you directly, especially if you are online reading a personal finance site, but if you live in the South it is almost certain that you have seen this play out among people you've known and grown up with.

Here's one surprising factoid: Fifty years ago (yes, a long way back), whites in Southern states had some of the highest life expectancies in the country. For white women, Arkansas was at no. 4, Oklahoma was at no. 6, and Georgia was at no. 13 among U.S. states. In two generations, these states have gone from the longest lifespans to the shortest.

You can argue about who's to blame, but there's certainly plenty of anger and blame to go around. It's just that no one seems to have figured out how to capitalize on that anger for electoral gain like Donald Trump.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 1, 2016 - 11:48am PT
That is an AWESOME CLIP NITA!!




http://thefederalist.com/2016/02/29/5-reasons-every-american-should-oppose-donald-trump/#.VtSu9BTgn6p.facebook
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 1, 2016 - 11:52am PT
Nita, I'm not sure it's brainwashing just by the right-wing media. The mainstream media has spent more coverage time on Trump than every other Republican candidate put together -- and almost none of that Trump coverage deals with either his record as a businessman, his record as an alleged evangelical Christian, his record as an alleged winner, or any real policy pronouncements. Are you surprised that people believe his implicit appeal that he's not a politician? I suspect that a susbtantial amount of voters, if not a majority of them, are so disgusted with "politicas as usual" that they've decided that politicians are the problem, rather than bad policies.

Meanwhile, I keep watching the reaction of Trump supporters when confronted by the truth of the Trump record, and the vacuity of his policies. It reminds me of a scene in Moliere's play Tartuffe. In the play, Tartuffe is a charlatan who has managed to ingratiate himself with a widow. In the middle of the play, the real friends of the widow confront her with all the misdeeds Tartuffe has pulled off, and how he is exploiting her. Her reaction is "Le pauvre homme!," meaning "The poor man! [for having to deal with all of these allegations]. She's so enamored of him, she won't let facts get in the way of her affection.

Objectively, Trump is currently the only major Republican candidate that polls show will certainly lose to Hillary Clinton. While this will likely change over time, that fact alone should give Trump supporters pause, but they remain willfully igonorant of the fact that half of Republicans, and about 99.99% of non-Republicans (except some angry white males) despise him. They also ignore his record of failure as a businessman, and lack of humility as a person. When Republicans not affected by his spell catalog his negatives - which are enormous and politically insurmountable in a general election - their reaction is "Le pauvre homme!"

John
dirtbag

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
John, the msm just can't get past the shock of the daily "oh sh#t, did he really say that!?!?" to scrutinize him properly. By the time folks started to wrap their heads around what he had just said, he'd say something else equally shocking. That was maybe somewhat kinda sorta defensible when he was a joke, but that era passed sometime last fall.

"Oh sh#t, did he really say that?!?!" is not something we want to hear daily regarding a nominee.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Mar 1, 2016 - 12:20pm PT
Donald has had plenty of scrutiny. What people can't accept is that he represents everything the GOP stands for, which is racist fear mongering and protection of the wealthy.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 1, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
Long and fascinating (that's what she said) look at authoritarianism in today's political parties (with data!).

The correlation of authoritarian preferences with right wing populism seems self-evident to me, but so does the correlation of authoritarian preferences with left-wing populism. The only differences are who they want to exercise authority over whom, and over what.

Sad to say, the idea that authoritarian preferences exist among people supporting populism at either extreme seems lost on those commenting on the link. With all due, and some undue, respect for the author, she seems so focused on the link on the right that she can't see the link on the left. Meanwhile, ironically enough, in today's Daily Signal (the e-newsletter of the Ted-Cruz-conservative Heritage Foundation), there is a link to a blurb by the author of The Closing of the Liberal Mind about how left-wing populism and authoritarianism go hand-in-hand. It never occurs to him that they fit together in right-wing populism as well.

Since so much of this sort of thing depends on definition, I'll promulgate mine: An authoritarian preference exists with respect to an area where the individual prefers to have a person or group with authority over everyone in the society deciding appropriate conduct. In effect, it's "let the experts decide what's best for us." The opposite of that is, in effect, "I don't care what the (usually self-appointed) experts say, I'm deciding what I'm going to do."

The Trumpians support Trump, they usually say, because "He's not a politician, he says what he thinks, and he'll run things right in Washington, to turn around the mess we have now." In other words, they're letting the "expert" (Trump) decide what to do. Clearly an authoritarian preference by my definition. The Trumpians, of course, don't see it that way. They think that they're breaking free of the "tyranny" of the "politically correct."

By the same token, though, letting the government spend my money for me is simply another "let the experts do it" preference, but this time by the left. They see it as breaking the "tyranny" of the "rich," rather than surrendering their freedom for how to spend their money.

Tough times always breed more desires for authoritarian solutions. Tough times are to authoritarian preferences (and consequently a rise in populism) as standing water is to mosquitos. I really don't like the choices I see facing us in this election.

John
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 1, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
8 weeks now from having a titanium rod and screws put in my spine.

While it's probably unrealistic, I hope you're as good as new when you heal from the surgery, Norton.

John
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
Just another thing Trump did not hear, nor could he even understand.

He gave expression to truths of everlasting value and advanced the ethics not of India alone but of humanity. Buddha was one of the greatest ethical men of genius ever bestowed upon the world.


Norton

Social climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
8 weeks now from having a titanium rod and screws put in my spine.

While it's probably unrealistic, I hope you're as good as new when you heal from the surgery, Norton.

John

Hi John, very kind of you!

Actually, this was my third spine surgery and the first to put stuff in place, the others
were to remove bone and disc pushing on nerves.

I am doing so much better, the pain is like 85% less now, I go to therapy four times a week and am slowly getting some strength and balance back, have moved off the walker to two canes and now back to my single trusty cain of 13 years.

here is the Xray showing how nicely twisted my spine and the new stuff

Donald would have fun mimicking me trying to walk

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
What spectrum of choice?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 1, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
Tough times always breed more desires for authoritarian solutions. Tough times are to authoritarian preferences (and consequently a rise in populism) as standing water is to mosquitoes.

Truth.

And every time someone trades safety for freedom, God smashes a kitten with a sledgehammer.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
Cool, thanks Cosmic and Fatty too!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
Glad to hear, Norton.
I had no idea, all the best to you.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
"Who would Jesus vote for? To him walls, wealth, & torture are non-starters, so probably the Jewish New Yorker from Vermont." -Neil deGrasse Tyson, tweet, just now



I think Neil just endorsed Sanders.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
Sad to say, the idea that authoritarian preferences exist among people supporting populism at either extreme seems lost on those commenting on the link. With all due, and some undue, respect for the author, she seems so focused on the link on the right that she can't see the link on the left. Meanwhile, ironically enough, in today's Daily Signal (the e-newsletter of the Ted-Cruz-conservative Heritage Foundation), there is a link to a blurb by the author of The Closing of the Liberal Mind about how left-wing populism and authoritarianism go hand-in-hand. It never occurs to him that they fit together in right-wing populism as well.

According to the results, far more authoritarians are republicans than democrats. Given that the GOP seems bent on nominating an authoritarian for president, I don't see why for now they should spend much time looking at authoritarian dems.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
Wonderful news Norton. I'm happy to hear your pain has greatly diminished.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 1, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
there is a link to a blurb by the author of The Closing of the Liberal Mind about how left-wing populism and authoritarianism go hand-in-hand. It never occurs to him that they fit together in right-wing populism as well.

Sure, you can get populist, authoritarians from either the extreme right or extreme left. And while those who think that Obama is a communist, fascist, atheist, Muslim, America-hater, would no doubt disagree, the democrats are about to nominate Hillary who is the definition of a wonkish, pragmatic, centrist. The republicans on the other hand...
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 1, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
get well Norton..
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 1, 2016 - 02:00pm PT
What part don't you get, ken?

I get that you are now backing off of your allegation, because you cannot support what you said.

Thanks!
dirtbag

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
I think this republican primary has been the most interesting primary in either party in decades. 2008 dem primary was groundbreaking and close, but we could be looking at a political earthquake here.

Anyone else agree?
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 1, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
Yikes Norton!! Hope you are healing well. They say laughter is the best medicine, so I hope this makes you laugh. If you find it offensive....sorry

[Click to View YouTube Video]
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 1, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
The mainstream media has spent more coverage time on Trump than every other Republican candidate put together

I believe if the media had not spent as much time covering him, he would have dropped out. His campaign is ego driven.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 1, 2016 - 02:21pm PT
Anyone else agree?

yep! that's why I was asking you dirt about the independent vote..
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 1, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
I believe if the media had not spent as much time covering him, he would have dropped out. His campaign is ego driven.

Probably true, 10b4me. But I also know that Trumpism is a largely self-inflicted Republican wound. If the candidates took him on months ago the way Rubio finally did in the last debate (and Ben Shapiro admirably and convincingly did online), he would not hauntour visions of the coming electoral disaster, but the powers-that-be were too afraid to alienate his supporters by actually dealing with issues and truth.

I feel like Habbakuk waiting for the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians. I know we deserve judgment, but how could let them do it to us?

John
brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Mar 1, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
Can we call him Drumpf from now on?
brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Mar 1, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
Here's a fun one.....

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/drumpfinator/hcimhbfpiofdihhdnofbdlhjcmjopilp/related

This chrome extension will change all instances of Trump to Drumpf automatically.

Keeps the laughs a rollin....
brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Mar 1, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
Trump Trump Trump
brotherbbock

Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
Mar 1, 2016 - 02:31pm PT

Working like a charm...
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 1, 2016 - 02:52pm PT
Best wishes for a full recovery Norton.

The xray explains much about your foul online mood.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
skcreidc
That youtube clip was great

Norton
From one old curmudgeonly contrarian to another,
Best of luck on your recovery :-)
couchmaster

climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 04:09pm PT

Damned climbers....LOL

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 1, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
Brotherb...
I've had the extension installed since early yesterday. It's hilarious.
I still do the double take when all CNN headlines (or wherever) have it as Drumpf.

I do believe sensible minds will prevail. John Oliver is one of those minds. He eviserated Drumpf. Not that it matters to the brain dead haters. It's probably just too much for them to admit how much they've been lied to.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 04:24pm PT
Even if Trump went all SCaLIA on us and died in his sleep, Hillary would still be the next Presodent O These United States.

If he doesn't, same result.



Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 1, 2016 - 04:28pm PT
I predict a heart attack for Trump
there are many ways for Karl Rove to make that happen

OR!!!!
what about a suicidal Muslim (or illegal alien) Jihadist that does something!!!
(hired by Karl Rove)
That will change so many parameters
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 1, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
Good luck, Norton!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
I would never wish that something untoward happen to Donald Drumpf, but what I am going to enjoy very much is watching him as he moves through the five stages as it becomes clear that Hillary Clinton will become the next president.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 05:07pm PT
Has anyonce seen Trump's will? Just in case.

Bin Laden, yeah he had one:

In it, he claims to have about $29 million in personal wealth, most of which he wanted spent "on jihad, for the sake of Allah."
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Mar 1, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
James Brennan: You reply reflects the character of someone who created and posted an elaborate fabric of obvious lies about my behaviour during a labour dispute. You lack the integrity to retract them and apologize to me.

No matter.

As for your attempt to dismiss my comments regarding your infantile historical analysis of the causes of WW II, it may be of interest for you to discover that the time honoured way for people to learn things in general is by talking (and listening) to those who have extensive experience in a given subject, as well as reading and viewing other reputable sources of information.

Clearly you are too lazy to do so, or you wouldn't continue to make such simplistic and ignorant assertions about complex historical events.

Ghost: I only saw "Triumph of the Will" once, and I suppose it qualifies as a magnificently produced example of the "purest" form of Nazi propaganda out there.

Where I believe it differs from the "Why We Fight" films is that the Axis outrages depicted were very real, and the Allied ideals espoused in the films were admirable.

As I am sure that you are aware, propaganda has been around from time immemorial, and it can be used as a force for either good or evil. I believe this is what separates these examples from each other.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
So my Facebook news sidebar shows an article titled: "Larry Summers: Donald Trump is a serious threat to American democracy" (link to article below), and I click through to read it.

As FB does at times, the top of the page is simply a picture with a small, sometimes not really relevant, synopsis, and you have to scroll down to find the actual story.

Which I do.

And next is the Top Posts and lo and behold....guess who it comes from... The John Birch Society, I kid you not.

And in it are comments upon comments of loyal Trump fans, or should I use the word ju jour and call the Drumpf Fanboys?

The John Birch society followers are behind Trump. Holy carp, it's like that YouTube video where the guy goes to the hotel in NYC and turns over the mattress and exposes a horrid mass of bug infestation. Bleeechhhk!

Although, I have to wonder that there is always the possibility that the BS post was seeded with comments to get it to the top. I'd like to believe that yes, it is the usual dirty politics and not that our country really is infested with hateful humans.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/01/larry-summers-donald-trump-is-a-serious-threat-to-american-democracy/?tid=sm_fb
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 1, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Paul Ryan has put down a line in the sand
The GOP establishment will not allow Trump to be their Republican Nominee

If Trump stays alive(?), he will start to talk about how the GOP is not being fair to him, and they are working against him,
and now he can say the agreement with the GOP is null and void

and then be able to mount a 3rd Party campaign, and he has already 182 delegates, way more than any other GOP

and pyro and CC (and a bunch of others) will be right there with him

3rd Party Yea, Trump can win!!!

I would love for a 3rd party far right wing candidate to let the GOP be extra diversified

Norton

Social climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 05:41pm PT
Craig,

why are you talking third party for Trump?

he is whomping the field, way way ahead in delegates

you don't believe he will be nominee and resort to third party?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 1, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
I say Trump will not be the GOP nominee

I will take a $10 bet on it
Something will happen

of course I am basing this on 100% speculation

pay pal Y.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
I will take your bet

I bet your $10 that Trump will be the nominee

Paypal good with you when payoff time comes?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 1, 2016 - 05:52pm PT
Paul Ryan has put down a line in the sand
The GOP establishment will not allow Trump to be their Republican Nominee

As long as we're exploring crazy scenarios (which actually makes sense because all politics is crazy this year) how about this:

1) Trump picks Chris Christie as his running mate. Not completely absurd because CC has endorsed Trump and Trump says his VP pick will be a "political" person.

2) Bernie Sanders supporters refuse to turn out in November for Hillary Clinton, who is the Democratic nominee.

3) Trump is elected president.

4) Trump does something impeachable early in his presidency--not too hard to believe. The House impeaches him. (As per the quote above Speaker Ryan can't stand Trump.) The Senate then convicts him and he is removed from office. (Senate Majority leader McConnell also can't stand Trump and is already telling Republican Senators up for re-election this year to run ads against him.)

5) Chris Christie who dropped out of the race and looks stupid right now becomes President of the United States.

Remember, you heard it here first :-)

Curt


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 1, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
Christie was my early favorite as being a real challenge
If he can come back, it would be Huge
and be a problem for the Dems

But Trump?
No


Norton bro
of course I'm serious about our bet
$10 that Trump will not be the GOP nominee
They will have picked someone else for ANY Reason what so ever
Norton

Social climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Craig,

I now take it that you were never serious about the bet offer you made, ok
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 1, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
Paul Ryan has put down a line in the sand
The GOP establishment will not allow Trump to be their Republican Nominee

This may be your hope, but it is not fact. They have NOT kicked Drumpf off their team(yet, anyway).

Bernie Sanders supporters refuse to turn out in November for Hillary Clinton, who is the Democratic nominee.

Bernie has said that once the nominee is chosen that we all should support that person, and I believe he certainly will be gracious if Hillary is the choice and will pledge his support. He will almost certainly, in his concession speech, remind his supporters to support the party.

And there is a good long wait between nomination and election day. Plenty of time to gain support.

Now, if Hillary was the nominee, and she asked Sanders to VP... those Bernie Babies would surely support the ticket. I don't think she would necessarily choose Sanders, and haven't really thought about who would be a VP choice. But Hillary/Bernie is not a bad idea at all, come to think about it.
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Mar 1, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
Clinton / Bloomberg - Ticket Could be interesting
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 1, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
Clinton / Bloomberg - Ticket Could be interesting

I bet Clinton will try to distance herself from Wall St. as much as possible.

Curt
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Mar 1, 2016 - 06:57pm PT
sheeit... you just couldn't make this election cycle up if you tried...



first there was:

"mr. kkk" david "voting against trump is treason to your heritage" duke...

and now there is... wait for it...

"mr. nation of islam: the jews were responsible for the slave trade" louis "not that i'm for trump, but i like what i'm looking at" farrakhan?




donald trump: the first real uniter in american politics...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 1, 2016 - 07:02pm PT
The Rude Pundit

3/01/2016

New York Times Conservatives Refuse to Blame Republicans for Trump's Rise Last Friday, David Brooks, in his New York Times "column" (if by "column," you mean, "the gurgles of drowning elitism"), sought to find the source of the River Trump that is flooding the Republican areas of the country right now. Brooks locates that lake high in the mountains of what he perceives as a general dismay with politics. "Over the past generation we have seen the rise of a group of people who are against politics," Brooks writes. "These groups — best exemplified by the Tea Party but not exclusive to the right — want to elect people who have no political experience. They want 'outsiders.' They delegitimize compromise and deal-making. They’re willing to trample the customs and rules that give legitimacy to legislative decision-making if it helps them gain power."

The entire column is 99% about Republicans, just Republicans, especially conservative Republicans. But, in what might be a nadir of both-sides-do-it-ism, Brooks never allows that the "cancer" exists more or less exclusively on the right side of the body politic. Look at what he says: "They suffer from a form of political narcissism, in which they don’t accept the legitimacy of other interests and opinions. They don’t recognize restraints. They want total victories for themselves and their doctrine...The antipolitics people elect legislators who have no political skills or experience...

The antipolitics people refuse compromise and so block the legislative process." That motherf*#ker contorts himself like he's attempting auto-analingus. Every single thing in Brooks's list of the politically damned is a description of how Republicans, and Republicans alone, have governed. In the minority in the Senate, they rewrote the rules on the passage of legislation so that filibuster was the default setting, not the extraordinary exception. Republicans got a whole bunch of yahoos and ideologues and evangelicals and other various and sundry c*#k mites elected, legislators for whom "compromise" is the same as "sh#t-eating." And they've attempted at every turn to delegitimize the twice-elected president. Don't f*#king blame the person smoking a joint for burning down the house when there's an as#@&%e with a flamethrower and an empty tank of gasoline standing right f*#king there.

Brooks gets to F*#knut of the Hour by saying, "Trump is the culmination of the trends we have been seeing for the last 30 years: the desire for outsiders; the bashing style of rhetoric that makes conversation impossible; the decline of coherent political parties; the declining importance of policy; the tendency to fight cultural battles and identity wars through political means." Again, almost all of that sh#t is attributable to Republicans, with Democrats winning...what? Gay marriage? And f*#kin' Trump ain't running on opposition to that.
- See more at: http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/#sthash.uveM7BaA.dpuf
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 1, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
Brooks is a very loyal, if unconvincing, Republican apologist.

Curt
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 1, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
cont..

Then, on Sunday, the other New York Times conservative, Ross D#@&%e-hat...Douthat decided that we have Donald Trump because that Barack Obama is such a dick. He wants everyone to recognize "the way that Obama-era trends in liberal politics have helped feed the Trump phenomenon." Obama has pushed the nation to a more authoritarian path because, well, sh#t because he has: "Having once campaigned against his predecessor’s power grabs, the current president has expanded executive authority along almost every dimension: launching wars without congressional approval, claiming the power to assassinate American citizens, and using every available end-around to make domestic policy without any support from Congress."

Leaving out that Obama has put out fewer executive orders than any president since, at least, Franklin Roosevelt (he's issued fewer than one-term presidents Ford, Carter, and Bush I), once again it needs to be said that, as far as domestic policy goes, Obama has had a Congress that, for most of his presidency, has pushed every legislative battle to crisis until, finally, it simply refused to do jacksh#t. Frankly, Obama could have gone far, far further on the domestic front and said, "Suck my balls and take me to the Supreme Court, jagoffs."

Of course, Douthat barely mentions the racism in the equation, in both the opposition to Obama and the rise of Trump. It's easier to say that white working class voters are abandoning the Democratic Party because "Obama has made moves that effectively slam the door on them: His energy policies, his immigration gambits, his gun control push, his shift to offense on same-sex marriage and abortion," not that they're mostly just f*#king racists who are looking for an excuse so they don't have to just say they're racists (although Trump is allowing them to finally go, "Okay, fine, we're just f*#king racists.")
The conservatives of the New York Times are desperately trying to rescue a party and an ideology that are being murdered before their eyes. Brooks and Douthat are denying that what they have believed has led to this moment in American political history. It has to be something else. They couldn't be wrong. Dear God, they couldn't be. - See more at: http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/#sthash.uveM7BaA.dpuf
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 1, 2016 - 09:20pm PT
From conservative, Jennifer Rubin...

Republicans: Get used to hearing Hillary Clinton

As the Republican Party’s future seemed to evaporate before its eyes, Republicans might, tonight, have been more interested than usual in what Hillary Clinton, who swept six states, had to say on Super Tuesday. Chances are, barring a miraculous turnaround in one of the races or an FBI indictment, we will be seeing quite a lot of her over the next few years. Republicans should come away with a few insights:

1. Her speech-making abilities are still not on a par with many politicians, but she has improved. Her voice is more modulated, and her message is more coherent than it has ever been.

2. Her message has been handed to her on a silver (Trump-engraved platter): “It’s clear that the stakes in this election have never been higher. And the rhetoric we’re hearing on the other side has never been lower,” she said. She continued, “If we resist the forces trying to drive us apart, we can come together to make this country work for everyone.” Just a few months ago this would seem cynical, disingenuous coming from such a polarizing figure who too often demonizes her opponents. Now, who can disagree with her call for more “kindness” and her rebuke that America never stopped being great?

3. She will have the advantage, as she did tonight in pivoting to a broad-based message that will appeal to independents and liberal Republicans while satisfying her own liberal base. “Instead of building walls, we’re going to break down barriers and build ladders of opportunity and empowerment so every American can live up to his or her potential,” she said. That rather vague but feel-good message will win over plenty of voters.

4. As Republicans battle tooth and nail for the nomination and for the future of the party, Clinton will be the beneficiary. With Republican anger (properly) directed at Trump and frustration building over which of the GOP candidates should get out, she can begin to repair her own reputation. She will likely have some success — unless the FBI rains on her parade.

5. With Trump in his victory speech still prattling on about the wall, Clinton sets up a contrast that politicians can only dream of enjoying: Sanity vs. lunacy, reason vs. irrationality and decency vs. mendacity.

6. Clinton is no longer the candidate most likely to abuse power or threaten her adversaries. Most voters, Republicans especially, shiver when Trump observes, as he did Tuesday night of the speaker of the House: “I’m sure I’m going to get along with him, and if I don’t, he’s going to pay a big price.” No wonder Trump swoons over Vladimir Putin.

7. As Trump — the most divisive figure in American politics in my lifetime — declares, “I am a unifier. I would love to see the Republican Party and everybody get together and unify,” one can almost hear Clinton laughing — not the phony laugh that grates, but a deep and sincere belly laugh. Yes, she’s in all likelihood going to have the last laugh in this campaign.

Jennifer Rubin writes the Right Turn blog for The Post, offering reported opinion from a conservative perspective.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 1, 2016 - 09:23pm PT
Brennan-Stewart...Is dueling legal in Canada..? How about Bill Clinton as VP..? Kinda like Hillary on top for a change..?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 1, 2016 - 09:44pm PT
Werner's right, go for a walk on the beach. It's a pleasant thing to do.

Wart if you go take a bath in the OCEAN you might get gobbled by a shark so then by ur death will name the beach WART beach...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 1, 2016 - 11:33pm PT
Biden for VP.

No question about his ability to do the job.

People like him.
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Mar 2, 2016 - 12:02am PT
Norton bro
of course I'm serious about our bet
$10 that Drumpf will not be the GOP nominee
They will have picked someone else for ANY Reason what so ever

Craig Fry - $10 IS YUGE!

So glad you put your meager money where your loud mouth is,

the equivalence seems about right.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 2, 2016 - 12:29am PT
The real question isn't the dem turnout in Nov., it's how many repubs will either stay home holding their noses or vote for hillary rather than see trump elected. And of course there's still the possibility of a conservative 3rd party run which would effectively elect hillary by definition.

EDIT: Really, that will be the story on the dem turnout as well - how many won't vote rather than vote for hillary, but I suspect far fewer than on the gop side given the prospect of a trump presidency.
Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber
the pitch above you
Mar 2, 2016 - 04:12am PT
As a resident of NJ I wish Christie would have the decency to resign now that he's found a full time job licking Trumps ass. I'd argue that it would be good for him to come home and do the job he actually got elected to do, but I think we're better off without him.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 2, 2016 - 05:36am PT
I hope you New Jerseyan's recall him. Once he's released as a hostage.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 2, 2016 - 06:50am PT
I almost want Trump to win just because based on all the whistling past the graveyard the Left wingers are doing, Pyro's prediction might actually come true. Lol.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 2, 2016 - 07:19am PT
Better Trump than the theocracies of Cruz and Rubio.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 2, 2016 - 07:36am PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 2, 2016 - 07:38am PT
TRUMP didnt expect to get this far..
What a show so far..
Rubio what an idiot looks like he already voted for Hillary..
Trump is such a people person
dirtbag

climber
Mar 2, 2016 - 08:14am PT
Another day, another protestor at a trump rally gets roughed up, this time an African-American teenager. White supramacists were apparently the culprit.

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/2/11146110/donald-trump-rally-push-shove

While approving the treatment of the protester, Trump remains non-committal about the chaps/group doing the roughing up. He just doesn't know enough about white supramacists to judge.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 2, 2016 - 09:12am PT
Well there is a glimmer of hope for Ted. He's snatched a limited victory from the jaws of defeat. Trump is a mob boss and Rubio a mob front. Ted may be using lawyerese to stretch the truth to extreme, but hey isn't it stupid to bring just a knife to a gunfight.

Vote Ted. You can't depend on the mob to deconstruct the criminal cabal in D.C. without them diverting the loot to their own purposes.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 2, 2016 - 09:26am PT
Exactly Locker-turn it all, everything over the last 20 years, backwards. You're brilliant.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 2, 2016 - 09:31am PT
One bully bullying another bully apparently caught on a live mic...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 2, 2016 - 09:42am PT
The rhetoric throughout (global and domestic) mainstream media and social networking begs a single question:

Has there ever been a more feared candidate than Donald Trump?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 2, 2016 - 09:45am PT
TT, what that clip doesn't convey is that The Donald was actually worried
about Christie's blood sugar levels.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 2, 2016 - 09:50am PT
LOL Reilly

Has there ever been a more feared candidate than Donald Trump?

Yes Ted Cruz
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 2, 2016 - 10:05am PT
Ringling Bros would be proud to have all of these "candidates" under one of their tents.

tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 2, 2016 - 10:06am PT
that's an insult to circus clowns ;-)
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 2, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
Who are these people, who think a fascist lunatic should be president? Is there that much inbreeding going on in middle America? Too much lead in their drinking water? Is it some devil that possesses them?


This guy's favorite headshot is of Trump snarling, like a rabid animal.







Every day there's another crazy, surrealistic news story about Trump.

Here he is, deluding himself that he will capture the Hispanic vote, and then ship those same voters across the border in padlocked cattle cars.



Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 2, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
Of the three main Republican candidates remaining, I'd say Cruz is the least likely to get the nomination. He's merely a disruptive as#@&%e and that niche is already being filled by someone better at it than he is.

Curt
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 2, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
When you get the KKK AND Louis Farrakhan endorsing the same guy......maybe the world is coming to an end.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 2, 2016 - 03:01pm PT
[Kenyan?] Panties for Cruz Carson Rubio
Pastor Orders Female Members To Remove Underwear So God Can Enter Their Bodies


http://newsone.com/2939386/rev-njohi-female-undergarments/
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Mar 2, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
This is what is coming.....http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/03/donald_trump_s_presidency_would_create_a_deep_recession.html?utm_content=inf_91_2641_2&wpsrc=socialedge&tse_id=INF_83d3c7ed360d4e1a898ceb437691dad3
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 2, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
Moose, nah.

It's Trump v Clinton and she destroys him. When confronted with the possibility of that thin-skinned clown with the launch codes Dem's will vote heavily.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Mar 2, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
pyro: Whenever I start to feel a little bit down, it always cheers me up to read a comment from a shambling ninny like you.

Are your parents brother and sister? It would certainly explain a lot about your personality.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 2, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
Trumpanoia

From Wikkipedia, the free encyclopodia

This article is about the thought process. For other uses, see Trumpanoia (disambiguation) and Trumpanoid (disambiguation).
"Trumpanoiac" redirects here. For the film, see "Trumpanoiac" (film).

It has been suggested that Trumpanoid social cognition be merged into this article. (Discuss) Proposed since July 2015.
Trumpanoia.

Trumpanoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.[1] Trumpanoid thinking typically includes persecutory, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself (e.g. "Everyone is out to Trump me"). Trumpanoia is distinct from phobias, which also involve irrational fear, but usually no blame. Making false accusations and the general distrust of Trumps also frequently accompany Trumpanoia. For example, an incident most people would view as an accident or coincidence, a Trumpanoid person might believe was intentionally done to them by a Trump.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 2, 2016 - 04:22pm PT

Saying something with great emotion and certainty does not make it come true

Now, get real

explain how any Republican can get to 270 Electoral College votes to become President

go ahead, tell us that California and New York are going to go for Trump

can't do it?

then throw in some arrogant tough guy talk to go along with the emotion and certainty
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Mar 2, 2016 - 04:29pm PT
Norton,with all respect,you really think Hillary is going to beat Trump in New York.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 2, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
Wilbeer, you are not familiar with the voting history of New York, a liberal hive?

The State that elected her as their US Senator? Seriously....
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Mar 2, 2016 - 04:38pm PT
Oh ,I know,but a lot of folks up here will not vote for Hillary.

You will not fool us twice.



As far as a liberal hive,that maybe downstate[the city].

But,half the states population lives upstate.Very Conservative.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Mar 2, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
in a bunker dug deep into the coastal granite of east central vancouver island it is, once again and as we speak, brewing:


Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 2, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
This campaign ad totally converted me to Cruz. He's my man. Yes sirre Bob.........

[Click to View YouTube Video]
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 2, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
Best bad lip reading ever. That was awesome!
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Mar 2, 2016 - 06:59pm PT
James Brennan: According to my Oxford Dictionary of Current English, the origin is uncertain, you nitwit.

Also, YOU GODDAMN FOOL, according to The Concise Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology, (brackets mine): (Appelative use of Ninny), pet form of Innocent.

Please grow up.

nah000: I certainly didn't start this battle with the above ass.hole. I'll be delighted to lay off if that toad reciprocates, especially if he takes the time to read a few history books and also removes his thumb from his ass, since it doesn't seem to help him think clearly.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 2, 2016 - 07:02pm PT
+1 nah000
dirtbag

climber
Mar 2, 2016 - 09:16pm PT
Pyro, I'm telling ya', you're wrong. Conservative heads, not libs' heads, are exploding big time right now:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/pandemonium-in-the-gop-some-embrace-trump-while-others-rush-to-stop-him/2016/03/02/dd24d0e4-e0a8-11e5-8d98-4b3d9215ade1_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_gopcampaign-815pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Mar 2, 2016 - 09:45pm PT
James Brennan: Can't you even read?

Citation number THREE (from the Concise Oxford Dictionary): Simpleton, foolish person (perh. from innocent).

What in the name of hell do you use in place of intelligence to stay alive?

Ninny.
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Mar 2, 2016 - 09:54pm PT
More chicken than a chicken?


nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Mar 2, 2016 - 10:08pm PT
*
Pyro, I'm telling ya', you're wrong. Conservative heads, not libs' heads, are exploding big time right now:

+ 1 ....the Drumpflets are so wrong.

ps..
Hey you Canadian guys..can you call a truce ...
But please..don't stop posting...I like hearing another countries views.

Station identification. @ KTaco... Music break..
[Click to View YouTube Video]



ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Mar 2, 2016 - 10:23pm PT
The repubs got lulled into simply opposing everything 'obama', and sitting on their hands for the last 8 years.
They did nothing to further their own cause, and now they are suddenly bitching about Trump?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:50am PT
Is kneeling before Hillary the same as worshiping that old rugged crotch ?

Old nasty crotch is exactly what we need in DC right now, not young supplicant senators.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 3, 2016 - 07:25am PT
Damn Donald Trump is all over the place today.. media is totally hard up!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 3, 2016 - 07:50am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

This is for Nita
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 07:56am PT


Pyro: Love the delivery but propaganda is propaganda.
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Mar 3, 2016 - 10:14am PT
*
This is for Nita

How so ?...

btw, i could only handle about 12 seconds...

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 10:22am PT
Old nasty crotch...

Can we please get past the sexist remarks? Would anyone refer to a man as "old saggy balls" or "smelly cause he can't reach past his belly to clean them balls?"

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 3, 2016 - 10:23am PT
Man Romney just destroyed Trump.

Makes you realize how much better a potential prez he was than anyone this time around.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Mar 3, 2016 - 10:25am PT
The Republican GOP speaks:

OPEN LETTER ON DONALD TRUMP FROM GOP NATIONAL SECURITY LEADERS

We the undersigned, members of the Republican national security community, represent a broad spectrum of opinion on America’s role in the world and what is necessary to keep us safe and prosperous. We have disagreed with one another on many issues, including the Iraq war and intervention in Syria. But we are united in our opposition to a Donald Trump presidency. Recognizing as we do, the conditions in American politics that have contributed to his popularity, we nonetheless are obligated to state our core objections clearly:

His vision of American influence and power in the world is wildly inconsistent and unmoored in principle. He swings from isolationism to military adventurism within the space of one sentence.

His advocacy for aggressively waging trade wars is a recipe for economic disaster in a globally connected world.

His embrace of the expansive use of torture is inexcusable.

His hateful, anti-Muslim rhetoric undercuts the seriousness of combating Islamic radicalism by alienating partners in the Islamic world making significant contributions to the effort. Furthermore, it endangers the safety and Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of American Muslims.

Controlling our border and preventing illegal immigration is a serious issue, but his insistence that Mexico will fund a wall on the southern border inflames unhelpful passions, and rests on an utter misreading of, and contempt for, our southern neighbor.

Similarly, his insistence that close allies such as Japan must pay vast sums for protection is the sentiment of a racketeer, not the leader of the alliances that have served us so well since World War II.

His admiration for foreign dictators such as Vladimir Putin is unacceptable for the leader of the world’s greatest democracy.

He is fundamentally dishonest. Evidence of this includes his attempts to deny positions he has unquestionably taken in the past, including on the 2003 Iraq war and the 2011 Libyan conflict. We accept that views evolve over time, but this is simply misrepresentation.

His equation of business acumen with foreign policy experience is false. Not all lethal conflicts can be resolved as a real estate deal might, and there is no recourse to bankruptcy court in international affairs.

Mr. Trump's own statements lead us to conclude that as president, he would use the authority of his office to act in ways that make America less safe, and which would diminish our standing in the world. Furthermore, his expansive view of how presidential power should be wielded against his detractors poses a distinct threat to civil liberty in the United States. Therefore, as committed and loyal Republicans, we are unable to support a Party ticket with Mr.Trump at its head. We commit ourselves to working energetically to prevent the election of someone so utterly unfitted to the office.



David Adesnik
Michael Auslin
Robert D. Blackwill
Daniel A. Blumenthal
Max Boot
Michael Chertoff
Patrick Chovanec
Eliot A. Cohen
Carrie Cordero
Michael Coulter
Patrick M. Cronin
Seth Cropsey
Tom Donnelly
Daniel Drezner
Colin Dueck
Eric Edelman
Joseph Esposito
Richard A. Falkenrath
Peter D. Feaver
Niall Ferguson
Aaron Friedberg
Jeffrey Gedmin
Reuel Marc Gerecht
Christopher J. Griffin
Mary R. Habeck
Paul Haenle
Rebeccah Heinrichs
William C. Inboden
Jamil N. Jaffer
Ash Jain
Robert G. Joseph
Kate Kidder
Robert Kagan
David Kramer
Matthew Kroenig
Frank Lavin
Philip I. Levy
Philip Lohaus
Mary Beth Long

Peter Mansoor
John Maurer
Matthew McCabe
Bryan McGrath
Paul D. Miller
Charles Morrison
Lester Munson
Andrew S. Natsios
Michael Noonan
John Noonan
Roger F. Noriega
Robert T. Osterhaler
Everett Pyatt
Martha T. Rainville
Stephen Rodriguez
Michael Rubin
Daniel F. Runde
Benjamin Runkle
Richard L. Russell
Kori Schake
Randy Scheunemann
Gary J. Schmitt
Kalev I. Sepp
Vance Serchuk
David R. Shedd
Kristen Silverberg
Michael Singh
Ray Takeyh
William H. Tobey
Frances F. Townsend
Jan Van Tol
Daniel Vajdich
Albert Wolf
Julie Wood
Dov S. Zakheim
Roger Zakheim
Philip Zelikow
Robert B. Zoellick
Laurence Zuriff




The statement above was coordinated by Dr. Eliot A. Cohen, former Counselor of the Department of State (2007–8), and Bryan McGrath, Managing Director of The FerryBridge Group, a defense consultancy. They encourage other members of the Republican foreign policy and national security communities wishing to sign the declaration to contact them.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 3, 2016 - 10:25am PT
Would anyone refer to a man as "old saggy balls" or "smelly cause he can't reach past his belly to clean them balls?"

We should because that sounds hilarious.

We could refer to Trump as Old Ginger Balls.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 3, 2016 - 10:26am PT
For seven years, Romney had no criticism of President Obama, yet he feels the need to unload on Trump.

I can see why the Republican voters are pissed.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 3, 2016 - 10:34am PT
Maybe 3 years Chaz, but Romney certainly attacked Obama during the election. And he's been pretty much quiet about everything since then.

I can't believe anyone thinks the Democrats stoop as low as the Repubs. Yes the Dems lie, and do underhanded tricks, but the Repubs take it to another level. To see them turning on each other isn't surprising. Trump attacked W for 9/11 worse than any prominent Dem in office has. And now many Reps are attacking Trump.

I don't think it's all politics. I think they are genuinely concerned about Trump as we all should be. The guy has the worst temperament of any serious contender I've ever seen.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 10:51am PT
Soouunds like a "crotch-word" puzzle to me.

Trees are known to have a crotch from time to time.



Equal time for crotch rockets.


zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 10:59am PT
Did I actually hear Romney calling for Trump to release his tax returns?

When is Romney going to admit participating in the tax amnesty program?

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 11:04am PT
I just don't like the fact that a woman is being attacked on her sexual identity when this is never the case with male candidates. I mean - take a damned LOOK at the most of them. They do not tend to be an attractive lot, yet the worse any of them gets flap over is the Drumpf and his flap of hair.


And Werner, I had to giggle over your post, with the imagery. I imagined him pressing the button like it was one of his talking dolls, just to hear his own voice.

And Nita - holy carp! I didn't see that posted yet. That's....serious. I guess we'll be hearing from Trump pretty soon saying he will run on his own ticket.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 3, 2016 - 11:13am PT
Check yourself, Happie-G.

Read what you've written about Trump.

Besides, Christie's fat.

Boehner is spray-painted, or something. And his name has been perverted for laughs.

Rubio drinks water, and wears elevator shoes.

Biden's hair is mostly plugs.

We could write a book or two on the crap slung at President Obama, like his elephantino ears. Or "mom pants".

H. Clinton doesn't own the off-topic insult monopoly.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 3, 2016 - 11:23am PT
There is context in insults. Calling W a chimp is much less offensive than if that was said about Obama. As the fairer and typically more disadvantaged sex women will be more sensitive and should be treated with more deference than males IMO. But that doesn't put them off limits. Especially if something is truly funny. It doesn't bother me. Bill's sexual identity was and is a huge source of good comedy material.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 11:24am PT
To Chaz: And none of the things you posted is a part of a person's sexual/gender identity.

I also don't believe I have posted anything about Trump's gender identity, but will admit as so if you care to copy/paste/link. Now, I have said he is misogynist, true. But this has been pretty much accepted as fact by anyone with the capability of reason.

Maybe if people made comments about some of the older male politicians wearing of Depends undergarments, or being unable to get it up without Viagra, it would be different.

edit:
Bill's sexual identity was and is a huge source of good comedy material.

Sure, but why make Hillary pay for his behavior?

No doubt there is one or two guys on this board who has cheated on their wives, or used prostitutes, and maybe even taken advantage of a woman at a party who had had too much to drink(and maaaybe even having pushed drinks at the woman intentionally). Would any one here make fun of the wives of such a man?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 11:36am PT
I have no intention of sinking to that level. I actuallyfeel pretty every time I have written Trump's name as "Drumpf." How about - I will stop doing that, and maybe others will reconsider when they are about to disparage Hillary Clinton as a woman.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 3, 2016 - 11:49am PT
Hillary clinton deserves all insults coming to her
those who fell victim to Benghazi would agree
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 3, 2016 - 11:50am PT
"Americanizing" one's surname is as old as America itself. It's part of the "unum" in the "e pluribis unum".

My own family started off in America as Von "Chaz", but that was changed to Van "Chaz" about a hundred years ago, because the Germans weren't real popular around here then. And shortly thereafter dropped the "Van" altogether.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:01pm PT
"We the undersigned..." Were perfectly content for Trump to lead the Birther charge.
It's absolutely fascinating to see the Repub establishment trying to tell voters what is supposedly in their best interests. The party that has done NOTHING for the past 4 years. Funny how you don't hear much about the Tea Party anymore.

Time for Trump to walk away from the Repub party.

How nice to have a breather from the trash Obama for a change.

Susan
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:03pm PT
why make Hillary pay for his behavior?

She is running for prez, in the public eye. Insults come with the territory. And the comedy narrative is the marriage is a loveless sham.

Comedians make fun of the Donald and his re-upping of wives, as they should. Imagine a young woman having to sleep with him, shudder...

Yes these comments do create a toxic atmosphere, but you can either choose to be offended by tasteless disparaging comments, or you can do what I do and really see that as a reflection of the person making the comment, not the taget of the comment. It identifies them as boorish. Let them own that.



those who fell victim to Benghazi would agree

Slow eye roll. Do you think all 9/11 victims think Bush deserves insults?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:04pm PT
And mine was Marceaux BITD. But "Drumpf" is not making some irrelevant jab at his family being immigrants, but a jab at his having a drab name that doesn't match his "brand." It's like calling Bush "Shrub." Not really a quality thing to do. So, I am hoping I will keep my promise to not refer to Trump in that way in the future.

Meanwhile - I am wondering how he will be responding to the block of GOP's who say they won't back him. The media hasn't been pressing the issue so far, strangely. I expect it is going to be brought up during the debate tonight.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
Slow eye roll. Do you think all 9/11 victims think Bush deserves insults?

There is a difference..... Hillery and Obama abandoned the poor folks in Benghazi. Lets not forget that little fact. OK?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
I'm witchu Happie; there is a misogynistic component to some comments that makes me cringe. Unfortunately, it's the interwebs where anonymity seems to relax some peoples sense of decency.

Meanwhile, the Repubs are really attacking Trump; first Romney, then McCain, and now a letter from former Republican administration security types. An excerpt from the NY Times:

“His advocacy for aggressively waging trade wars is a recipe for economic disaster in a globally connected world,” it argues. “His embrace of the expansive use of torture is inexcusable.” It refers to his “hateful, anti-Muslim rhetoric,” which they argue will alienate “partners in the Islamic world making significant contributions to the effort,” while endangering “the safety and constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of American Muslims.”

His insistence that Mexico will pay for a wall between the two countries “rests on an utter misreading of, and contempt for, our southern neighbor.” And his argument that Japan should pay far more for the basing of American troops there — it already foots much of the bill — “is the sentiment of a racketeer, not the leader of the alliances that have served us so well since World War II.”

But perhaps most interesting is the attack on Mr. Trump’s greatest claim to a qualification for the presidency: his business experience.

“His equation of business acumen with foreign policy experience is false,” the letter says. “Not all lethal conflicts can be resolved as a real estate deal might, and there is no recourse to bankruptcy court in international affairs.”
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
There's at least one way, Happie-G - that's not so far fetched - that this can all get a hell of a lot more interesting than it already is.

So far as I know, Trump hasn't won anything with a 50%+ majority. That means if there are two more Republicans in the race to the end, and they continue to do as well as Rubio and Cruz are doing, then the nomination will be decided at the convention. Where after the first ballot if there's no 50%+1 winner, the delegates will be free to vote for whoever they damn well please on subsequent ballots, subject to all the deal-making, horse-trading, and the agitation that goes down in the smoke filled room.

Then, if the Republicans pick someone other than Trump, he's very likely to run as a "third" party candidate. If I remember right, he was the one who didn't pledge to support the others when that Fox guy asked them at the first debate. ( Lndsay Graham promised to support the eventual Republican nominee that day, too. I'd like to hear from him if Trump wins the nomination )

Bloomberg may go third-party, too. And maybe Sanders, especially if his supporters feel he was "jobbed" by the Democrats. Then we'd have five candidates all running with roughly equal popularity - as in not worth a sh#t, but none having a real advantage over any of the others.

If none of them wins a majority of electoral college electors, then guess what? The House Of Representatives gets to decide who our next President is! How that works out will be must-see TV for sure.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:24pm PT

Clearly, women get body-shamed more than men. But, the press won't hesitate to body-shame a male candidate, if the story is juicy enough.


Medical science explains why Ted Cruz is so repugnant

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
Hillery and Obama abandoned the poor folks in Benghazi. Lets not forget that little fact. OK?

Using that reasoning W abandoned all Americans when he didn't act on the memo "Bin Laden Determined to Attack in America".

Give W a pass for the worst terrorist attack on US soil, but Hillary and Obama are personally responsible for security at one embassy in Libya.

There's a huge double standard for folks in your own party though right?

But really no point in reasoning with the BENGHAZI!! folks.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
Why do you guys still take the Benghazi bait?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:41pm PT
Thank You, Mitt
Trump's favorables just rose again, as did the veil you willingly wore while being used by the corrupt political establishment who can't afford to lose their power in liberal D.C. Your speech was so silly and contradictory it confirmed the reasons Trump received tens of thousands more votes than you did in your own home state that you governed. Silly man. Could the establishment really not find anyone credible in their holier-than-thou movement to spew the deception you regurgitated today on tv?
Independent, commonsense conservative patriots: now it's our time to ramp it up, to prove even more adamantly that our movement in this time for choosing is wisely chosen by those who know what's at stake for America. The political establishment's desperation is nailing its coffin - obviously a good thing - but we mustn't let the Alinsky tactics used to destroy our We the People movement go unanswered. His shoulders are broad, but Donald Trump must not carry this on his own shoulders. Thankfully, Mitt's anti-Republican Platform speech just strengthened our own. Americans' shoulders just got bigger and broader. Way to go, Mitt.

Sarah Palin
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
Rumor has it she also has crotch issues....
im willing to check her out!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 3, 2016 - 12:58pm PT
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 3, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
So much for lunch...
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 3, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/jerry-delemus-arrested-bundy-ranch
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 3, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
But 10b4me, you don't understand the role of facts in Trump's campaign; facts have no role. While the guilt by association angle has a certain Trumpian ring to it, all facts seem to do is to galvanize his support. The Trumpers feel that if people are saying all those horrible things about him and, heaven forbid, even resort to arresting someone tied to his campaign, it merely shows that those in power are afraid of him.

That thinking corresponds to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." The problem, of course, is that "the nightmare of my enemy is my friend" is a non-sequitur. Athens was afraid of Philip of Macedon, but it did not follow that Philip was therefore Sparta's friend. He represented disaster for both. Trump has so many detractors precisely because they recognize his unsuitability for the job, and that things could be much worse than they are now.

John
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 3, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
You correct John. As long as trump builds a wall, deports the mexicans, stops them pesky muslims, and kicks ISIS ass, he's alright in "my" book.

I'm dumb, and I'm stickin' to it.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 3, 2016 - 02:14pm PT
After this morning and the speech Mitt gave I'm now seeing Drumpf with no course to the WH. He'll get the nomination unless the republicans pull some BS move. But it's becoming clear that establishment republicans would rather have Hillary for four years then the disaster that would be Drumpf for maybe four years (if he doesn't screw up so bad he gets impeached which is likely in my opinion).

So lose the battle to win the war. Concede the next four years. How? Easy!

Run Mitt 3rd party. Run Ryan as his VP (or some other likable establishment Republican).

The republicans also don't get their asses kicked so hard this election year in other areas (in particular the Senate which will go Democrat question is just how far - a minor battle victory for them).

Then in four years Mitt can run again and he'll be looked at from both sides of the isle has a hero for saving the world from the disaster that is Drumpf. He'll also be more polished as we've seen happen with Billary. Or maybe by then the republicans will have someone show up that is electable (none of these clowns are and Cruz is worse than Drumpf).

Hillary is pretty much a republican of 20+ years ago at this point anyway. It won't be too hard to work with her to get some of their agenda done.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 3, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
Hillary is pretty much a republican of 20+ years ago at this point anyway. It won't be too hard to work with her to get some of their agenda done.

Um, no. She has moved farther to the left than she was 20 years ago, except in foreign affairs. Republicans don't believe that "businesses don't create jobs," or that the criterion for a SCOTUS nominee is support for overruling Citizens United, for example.

The SCOTUS issue poses the biggest dilemma for Republicans. So many of the justices are advanced in age, and all we need is one more Ginsberg, who believes the Constitution means what she says it means, and the First and Second Amendments, and the takings clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth, are history. The long-term disaster that the SCOTUS change portends should terrify any Republican. Too bad Trump made it inevitable.

John
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Mar 3, 2016 - 02:37pm PT
nita: I'd be delighted to accept a truce. I would, however, remind you that I've been the unprovoked target of this abuse, which people like nah000 can't seem to get through his head. Furthermore, on more than one occasion I have offered to keep my distance from James Brennan, so the ball is firmly in his court.

My conscience is clear.

I'd much rather focus my fury on Trump.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 3, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
Perhaps you missed my angle, John.

From my perspective:

the right has gone so extreme right that it's pulled the left closer to center or closer to where the right was 20 years ago. I wasn't saying she's more right. And given what Mr. Sanders has brought to the table she's certainly being pulled towards being a progressive (she's not).

But on some issues i think she can be seen to have the ability to work with establishment republicans (not the teabaggers) on some issues. That makes conceding the battle to her a pill that isn't impossible to swallow.

Now your point on the SCOTUS is spot-on. But that's their problem - the right created the vacuum for Drumpf to fill and now they have to live with it. I've got no sympathy, however.

And I mean haha... either blow up the party because of Drumpf or cripple it with SCOTUS justices that are not regressive. Fun times these watching the GOP self destruct.

Funny thing is I now look at Romney and think - I kinda like this guy. A Clownstick will do that I suppose.

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 3, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
Romney, McCain, even W look great now compared to Trump and Cruz.

They will get Hillary elected dispite all her baggage and utter hate the right has for her.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Mar 3, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
Stewart...

i'm going to engage you directly for only the second and what will in all likelihood, based on your history here, be the final time...

in case you're interested in making a more generally positive contribution to this board, here are a couple quick unsolicited tips:

1. you can't control what other people think or do. if you don't like what someone thinks or does and you've attempted to communicate your point of view and they are still being in your eyes a dick/ignorant/abusive/toxic/mentally challenged it's time to stop engaging with them.
2. because of your incredibly toxic, vitriolic, and unnecessarily vicious style of interaction you turn off even the people, or at least a person like me, who often agrees with your denotative meaning.

hence my use of that ole chestnut of a gif...

and right on track and on time you haven't failed to disappoint my expectation even though i wish you would...



best of luck and a dmt styled cheers to ya, from someone who often agrees with what you are saying at the same time that i find your style of saying it, verging on the disturbed.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
Reading that Sarah Palin excerpt on last page I was thinking "You know, this one sounds like she could have been at Camp Malheur." And then the link to Trumps person who was involved with the Bondy thing comes a few minutes later...


Tnfoil Hat time - Trump has eyes on getting the west's public lands sold out from under the government's stewardship so he can speculate and fill vast tracts with Trump Resorts of the Dude Ranch type. Hey, if Obama can do Executive Orders, why cant' he use them to get those lands out from under Federal control?


I have the feeling this campaign is going to be drama right up to and maybe even past the day of election.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Mar 3, 2016 - 05:07pm PT
nah000: While I tend to agree with the spirit of your message, I don't respond well to vicious and unprovoked personal attacks that are transparent lies from people who claim to share your outlook, particularly when they ignore factual information that I have offered in reply.

I am also strongly of the opinion that this topic is not, as I have earlier stated, the equivalent of a dinner party where we are disagreeing about some completely harmless topic such as climbing ethics.

I deeply believe that good manners has never slowed the march of evil. The historical record is clear that when nations are ruled by jingoistic xenophobes, innocent people tend to suffer and die as a result, and my conscience will not permit me play nice with people who support these politicians.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 3, 2016 - 05:53pm PT
Ah, the memories. Happie-G you made me recall the 2000 election with the Florida ballot BS. After the Tuesday vote and no decision my wife (ex) and I went up to Vancouver for a weekend away. Coming back through the US border I asked the guard who the new president was - it still wasn't decided!!!

The 'debate' is coming up in 10 minutes; I hope I can struggle through it this time. It might actually be interesting or, more probably, entertaining. Mr. Roboto might just be fun to watch.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
I'm getting ready to sign off for the night, but just went to the Twitter feed for following the debate. Sounds like it's off to the absurd start as usual:
 "We really just listened to Donald Drumpf try to assure the US on the size of his manhood. #GOPDebate #ugh

Please - someone post video if they have it, because I can't imagine the dick size comment is going to make it onto NPR for tomorrow morning's news.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 06:21pm PT
[Ryan_Rand]

Here me now, believe me later.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 3, 2016 - 06:21pm PT
So, if they somehow don't nominate Trump, think he'll run the third rail?
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 3, 2016 - 06:31pm PT


Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 3, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Mar 3, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
For anyone who is interested in voting for donald,

do you want to ban muslims?
if so, can we ban catholics too? i for one, am sick and tired of having these priests rape our children and hide it.

do you agree that all illegal mexicans are rapists and murderers?

is there anything beyond a 5 second sound bite that you have to justify the support of a hitler like personality?

edit:
are americans really this stupid?

google trump videos bankrupt projects. he sold people on failed things the same way he is doing it now.
Stewart

Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
Mar 3, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
TradHog: You politics affect the entire planet. Until that stops, get used to outsiders being concerned about what goes on in your nation.

Great spelling, by the way.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 3, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
equivalent of a dinner party where we are disagreeing about some completely harmless topic such as climbing ethics.
Stewart U Stewart
U Stewart
Stewart U have a NON_climbing Record so how can UUU WART include climbing ETHIC!!! UR A TROLL....

UR POlitics are invalid


Great spelling, by the way.

MMKKK
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 3, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
Hawkeye, I just watched the Repub 'debate' and the answer to your question is: YEP.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 3, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
I just got done with suffering through the Faux Republican presidential debate.

1. It appears that Trump had resolved to be polite to Faux anchor Megyn Kelly, who apparently had been sharpening her verbal knives since the last Faux debate, when Trump worked her bigtime.

Megyn, disguised as a blond Nordic godess, had her revenge:
Megyn Kelly Destroys Donald Trump With His Own Words At Fox News Debate
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/03/03/megyn-kelly-destroys-donald-trump-words-fox-news-debate.html

2. Other than that, it was a clusterfuk, with the theme being: "dog-pile on Trump."

It will be interesting to see if Trump support is positively, or negatively affected by the clusterfuk.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 3, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
Megyn, disguised as a blond Nordic godess,:

I was thinking she wanted too look more like Hillary...
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 3, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
Crotchety
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 3, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
Megyn Kelly was looking both cold as ice & hot at the same time, tonight.

I could imagine she was holding a long dagger for Donald, behind her back, the whole time she was on camera.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 3, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
A comment about the Republican debacle from the NY Times about 15 minutes ago re what are the Repubs really, honestly, f*#king, thinking:

"It is an excellent thing that the Republican leaders have noticed the problem they’ve fostered, now embodied in the Trump candidacy."

"The problem is embodied in the Rubio and Cruz candidacies as well. I don't say this to defend Trump, but to recognize the scope of the problem. Not a single one of these candidates is qualified to be president. We have a rigid evangelical ideologue, a carnival barker and an empty suit. These three candidates are the remaining choices, as selected by a Republican base that the party leadership exploited, fomented and can no longer control. It is a base that no longer understands or values democracy. I'd laugh about just desserts were it not so terrifying for our nation."

Pretty much says it all. God save America. And I'm an atheist.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 3, 2016 - 09:00pm PT
Winemaker! Per your post of the NYT's comment:

"It is an excellent thing that the Republican leaders have noticed the problem they’ve fostered, now embodied in the Trump candidacy."

"The problem is embodied in the Rubio and Cruz candidacies as well. I don't say this to defend Trump, but to recognize the scope of the problem. Not a single one of these candidates is qualified to be president. We have a rigid evangelical ideologue, a carnival barker and an empty suit. These three candidates are the remaining choices, as selected by a Republican base that the party leadership exploited, fomented and can no longer control. It is a base that no longer understands or values democracy. I'd laugh about just desserts were it not so terrifying for our nation."

I can only agree. We are so-fuked if any of those losers end up as president.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Mar 3, 2016 - 09:04pm PT
The quality of the republican party is obvious to anyone watching these "debates".

How one could vote for anyone that displays such idiotic childish behavior to run the USA is beyond me.
I can not for the life of me explain to the international community I interact with daily how Americans could even contemplate electing any of these buffoons.

Surely our great country has more potential than what we are witnessing.

Very sad IMO.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 3, 2016 - 09:28pm PT
Winemaker and Fritz- Yep...

Looking at who's left and what we're in for has me feeling a little queezy.

At least we had a pragmatic, centrist and solid family man the last 7 years to calm the waters and flake the rope a bit for the next administration.


healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 4, 2016 - 12:19am PT
The results of fifty years of bigoted pandering to the lowest common denominator is what the f*#k is happening.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 4, 2016 - 12:21am PT
This has already been by far the most fascinating election of my lifetime.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Mar 4, 2016 - 01:08am PT
Fascination is one thing, but my god what a shite show...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 4, 2016 - 01:13am PT
Well, one thing we know for sure - hillary has a bigger balls than any of those three clowns.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Mar 4, 2016 - 01:19am PT
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/03/politics/donald-trump-small-hands-marco-rubio/index.html
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 4, 2016 - 06:38am PT
Death to [middle aged] whitey, life for Trump?

The red line on each plot summarizes the relationship between white deaths and Trump support. In every state except Massachusetts, the counties with high rates of white mortality were the same counties that turned out to vote for Trump.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2016/03/supertues2.png&w=1484" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2016/03/supertues2.png&w=1484
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 4, 2016 - 06:40am PT
That's because Obama has been secretly killing them for years #JadeHelmIsReal #BlackIlluminati
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 4, 2016 - 07:30am PT
Angry patriot won't be a marine now because of his behavior at a Trump rally.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/03/03/angry-patriot-who-assaulted-a-black-woman-at-a-trump-rally-finds-out-it-ruined-his-lifeimages/
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 4, 2016 - 07:30am PT
zBrown......but which is the cause and which the effect?
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 4, 2016 - 07:46am PT
Interesting point. Correlations are correlations. Let's get down to the real work of proving that Hillary has been hiring out the killing of Trump supporters.

There is proof on her new server.

Kind of antiquey looking, but so are buck-knives and one killed Nicole Simpson.



Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 4, 2016 - 07:52am PT
Looks like Trump's been a bad boy. The campaign got caught doing a little photoshopping to suggest not all supporters are white ......


HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 4, 2016 - 07:56am PT
Ahahahahahaaaaaaaaaguahuagluaghuaghuahuagua


They blackfaced their pics!
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 4, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 4, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
Hillary clinton deserves all insults coming to her
those who fell victim to Benghazi would agree


And your qualifications to speak for them, when they do not take this position?

I'm not much for people who take honor unto themselves that they have not earned, which would seem to be you, in this matter.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 4, 2016 - 06:15pm PT
Hillary clinton deserves all insults coming to her
those who fell victim to Benghazi would agree

which one of our intellectual giants said that?
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Mar 4, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
They can't take the position, 'cause they're ALL DEAD!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 4, 2016 - 09:08pm PT
They can't take the position, 'cause they're ALL DEAD!

Their families are alive. You don't speak for the victims, the families do.

If you try to speak for the families, you are claiming FALSE VALOR for yourself.

Pathetic and disgusting.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Mar 4, 2016 - 09:12pm PT
Did you ever wear the uniform of our country? I did, and thereby have the right to speak for deceased brothers in arms. Ever been to a military funeral where they play Taps? Tears your heart out if you've served.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 4, 2016 - 10:10pm PT
The Benghazi story fed by the right is a hoax. They do it for political gain. Shameful and exploitative.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 4, 2016 - 10:49pm PT
I did, and thereby have the right to speak for deceased brothers in arms.

I did as well, but I certainly don't believe that gives either one of us a right to speak for anyone else.

And Hillary had about as much to do with Benghazi as she did Fukashima.

The Benghazi compound was a provisional CIA outpost in a conflict zone. The CIA personnel were there for the sole purpose of being our eyes and ears on the ground. The compound met none of State's OSPB consulate security standards exactly because it wasn't an embassy, but rather a makeshift compound put together by the CIA who were tasked to track events on the ground and gather what intel they could on the various factions operating in the area.

About the only thing you can say may have been a bad call was having Stevens in on the ground in rebel territory for a visit too soon. But the fact remains we didn't go in precisely because the very guys we sent in to map out events on the ground got burned and overrun - e.g. we no longer had eyes and ears on the ground and no one in the Med or in DC wanted a 'Blackhawk Down' replay with whomever we would have sent in for a rescue.

Now you can also argue we shouldn't have been so gunshy about repeating the Mogadishu scenario - but had we sent in a rescue team and lost them as well the gop would now be screaming about the advisability of having sent a team in ala Carter. The pooch was screwed either way and the lesson learned should be not to set up unsecure, provisional 'consulates' until the shitstorm has calmed down and we really have a stable, secure and aware force on the ground and a defensible position from which to operate from.

Benghazi - it's all totally manufactured political theatre, get over it dude.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Mar 5, 2016 - 06:33am PT
In every Government office they have a TOE posted; that's a Table of Organization. In the State Department, The Secretary of State is at the TOP of the list, and is ultimately the official RESPONSIBLE for all operations and acts (or lack thereof) happening within that department. It HAPPENED ON HILLARY'S WATCH; therefore SHE WAS RESPONSIBLE. Period.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 5, 2016 - 06:41am PT
Why did Fox news ( GOP ) roast Hillary over Bengotcha and not Barack...? Was it because Hillary was going to run for POTUS and the GOP needed a home run to keep her out of the white house..?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 5, 2016 - 07:01am PT
In every Government office they have a TOE posted; that's a Table of Organization. In the State Department, The Secretary of State is at the TOP of the list, and is ultimately the official RESPONSIBLE for all operations and acts (or lack thereof) happening within that department. It HAPPENED ON HILLARY'S WATCH; therefore SHE WAS RESPONSIBLE. Period.

Yes, in the same way a company owner is responsible for for the actions of those their company employs.

I believe that Hillary Clinton has accepted accountability at that level, has she not? However, a murderer, that does not make her. The GOP rhetoric would have her as plotting for the event to occur.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 5, 2016 - 07:23am PT
Their families are alive. You don't speak for the victims, the families do.

If you try to speak for the families, you are claiming FALSE VALOR for yourself.

Pathetic and disgusting.


You must be kidding me. Trying to claim that anyone with an opinion about Benghazi equates to stolen valor is about as stupid as claiming Bundy's cattle are so wild that it places government agents in harms way to round them up.

Good Grief

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2016 - 07:52am PT
Hillary had no warning about the Benghazi attack
It was 3000 miles away in another Country.
There was nothing she could do after it happened
except do an investigation and put the perpetrators in jail
She did that, case closed.

Bush had multiple warnings, was wiretapping the Country for terrorist attacks.
Yet 911 happened at our most populated spot in America
and then people died of a Anthrax terrorist attack in DC

then he lied us into a war and 5000 soldiers died
at a cost of 3 trillion
and then bankrupted the Country

So you agree that Bush was responsible for it all

and yet you make a bigger deal out of Benghazi just because that's what Fox News spouts as propoganda

When are we going to make Bush accountable?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 5, 2016 - 07:53am PT
Stop stealing valor Craig Fry.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2016 - 07:54am PT
Fox News has stole the Valor
Not the truth
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 5, 2016 - 08:01am PT
It HAPPENED ON HILLARY'S WATCH; therefore SHE WAS RESPONSIBLE. Period.

UR wrong the entire thing was a HOAX..

Damn it's some good KOOL AID you'll are drinking..
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2016 - 08:07am PT
What we forget is that Benghazi was also a covert CIA office
So when the CIA is involved, the State Dept. does not have complete responsibility.

The CIA are on their own, no one will take responsibility for what they got going on

oops, HealyJ said it better above
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 5, 2016 - 08:08am PT
I agree...Let's pretend 911 didn't happen and vote for George W. Trump...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2016 - 08:15am PT
Back OT

Vanity Fair: Trump Kept a Volume of Hitler's Speeches By His Bedside

11:37 AM, Mar 01, 2016 | By Mark Hemingway

Of all the crazy revelations about Donald Trump, arguably the one that seems most alarming, is that he has a fondness for reading Hitler speeches. Now the charge was made by his first wife Ivana relating to his divorce proceedings, but when asked about it, Trump's denial was less than reassuring:

Last April, perhaps in a surge of Czech nationalism, Ivana Trump told her lawyer Michael Kennedy that from time to time her husband reads a book of Hitler's collected speeches, My New Order, which he keeps in a cabinet by his bed. Kennedy now guards a copy of My New Order in a closet at his office, as if it were a grenade. Hitler's speeches, from his earliest days up through the Phony War of 1939, reveal his extraordinary ability as a master propagandist.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 5, 2016 - 08:32am PT
If Hillary was directly responsible for the Benghazi attacks or not isn't the point.

She WAS and IS responsible for being part of the war pig agenda to overthrow/murder Gaddhafi and destabilize Lybia in the first place.

Not that I think Trump is any better but he likely hasn't murdered people (yet).

Until we can get rid of our overly-massive MIC and all of the evils that pour from it, we're all fu$$#ed.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2016 - 08:41am PT
The Libya United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 doesn't even mention Hillary.

So I guess you must be mistaken on your grossly negligent accusations against Hillary



2011 military intervention in Libya


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


On 19 March 2011, a multi-state coalition began a military intervention in Libya, ostensibly to implement United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973. The United Nations Intent and Voting was to have "an immediate ceasefire in Libya, including an end to the current attacks against civilians, which it said might constitute crimes against humanity" ... "imposing a ban on all flights in the country's airspace – a no-fly zone – and tightened sanctions on the Qadhafi regime and its supporters." The resolution was taken in response to events during the Libyan Civil War,[18] and military operations began, with American and British naval forces firing over 110 Tomahawk cruise missiles,[19] the French Air Force, British Royal Air Force, and Royal Canadian Air Force[20] undertaking sorties across Libya and a naval blockade by Coalition forces.[21] French jets launched air strikes against Libyan Army tanks and vehicles.[22][23] The Libyan government response to the campaign was totally ineffectual, with Gaddafi's forces not managing to shoot down a single NATO plane despite the country possessing 30 heavy SAM batteries, 17 medium SAM batteries, 55 light SAM batteries (a total of 400-450 launchers, including 130-150 SA-6 launchers and some SA-8 launchers), and 440-600 short-ranged air-defense guns.[24][25] The official names for the interventions by the coalition members are Opération Harmattan by France; Operation Ellamy by the United Kingdom; Operation Mobile for the Canadian participation and Operation Odyssey Dawn for the United States.[26]

From the beginning of the intervention, the initial coalition of Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Italy, Norway, Qatar, Spain, UK and US[27][28][29][30][31] expanded to nineteen states, with newer states mostly enforcing the no-fly zone and naval blockade or providing military logistical assistance. The effort was initially largely led by France and the United Kingdom, with command shared with the United States. NATO took control of the arms embargo on 23 March, named Operation Unified Protector


I hate all the lies being perpetuated about Hillary, are you saying she has killed people??

That's sick and disgusting
It just goes to show the inner personality of the people that believe anything they are told, they look for the confirmation bias to hate
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 5, 2016 - 08:46am PT
Of all the crazy revelations about Donald Trump, arguably the one that seems most alarming, is that he has a fondness for reading Hitler speeches. Now the charge was made by his first wife Ivana relating to his divorce proceedings, but when asked about it, Trump's denial was less than reassuring:

This alarms you?
I mean really. "most alarming"?
You can be "reassured" by not believing everything you read.
Why would a bitter ex-wife say such a thing?

or ...
You could simply take your own advice.

I hate all the lies being perpetuated about Hillary, are you saying she has killed people??

That's sick and disgusting
It just goes to show the inner personality of the people that believe anything they are told, they look for the confirmation bias to hate
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 5, 2016 - 08:52am PT
Hitler did deliver a good speech. Stalin, not so much.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 5, 2016 - 09:57am PT
Hitler , inspite of the hair lip , was a better than Stalin...
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Mar 5, 2016 - 10:10am PT
Sorry if there's a 30 sec. add, but you really have to see this. Make sure not to have a mouth full of coffee.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2016 - 12:19pm PT

I was not alarmed
It was an article, not a single word was mine
They were Ivana's words, it was in "quotes"
I did not say they were fact or fiction

others posted outright lies about Hillary
How many people has Hillary Killed?
according to some, they say she has killed many people...
Not that I think Trump is any better but he likely hasn't murdered people (yet).

Can you tell the difference?
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Mar 5, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
Nice Ksolem.

Trump as a candidate for president is as profound as Jenner becoming a woman. All that attention and so difficult to revert to the former station.

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 5, 2016 - 01:02pm PT
You foreigners in foreign countries wonder why we like our extended campaign cycles.

It's because it's a hell of a lot better to find out about all this sh#t in March of this year than it would be to find out about it in March of next year.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2016 - 02:37pm PT
Just to set the record straight

How many people has Hillary Murdered?

We need a body count now so we can use it against her in Nov.

If the Number is zero, then someone will have to admit that they were an idiot for saying she murdered people.
You think the news would have said something about all the murdering going on w/o consequence.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 5, 2016 - 02:43pm PT
She supported The Iraq War. Didn't she?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
No she did not Support the invasion of Iraq

there was never a vote to invade Iraq
there was a vote that allowed the use of force if certain conditions were not met,
Bush invaded before Saddam could prove that the conditions were met on his supposed stock pile of WMDs

Bush made the decision to invade Iraq
Not Hillary nor any Democrat.

and even if she did support it, the blood is on Bush's hands, his administration, and those who voted him into office
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 5, 2016 - 02:55pm PT
She WAS and IS responsible for being part of the war pig agenda to overthrow/murder Gaddhafi and destabilize Lybia in the first place.

The events in on the ground were in play with or without western nations' involvement. The choice was sit on our hands and do nothing letting events play out or back up our democracy rhetoric - western nations chose the latter.

The result was clusterf*#k for the exact same reason the Mideast became a clusterf*#k after the neocons invaded Afghanistan and Iraq to 'let freedom ring' - western notions of 'democracy' don't translate well to the Mideast's landscape of tribes, sects and a dominant secular split.

It's simply the latest misadventure in a 200 year history of the U.S. trying to treat the Mideast like it's a Latin American country and wondering why things never turn out like we thought they would (hint: there are no latin suicide bombers).
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 5, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
Miss a day or two here and you feel like you just fell off the turnip truck.

Where can I bone up on the "War-Pig" agenda?

Nevermind. A picture (or two) is worth at least 3.5 words.




Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 5, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
This song has one of the finest guitar solos ever recorded. Period.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Mar 5, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
Donald is in trouble with today's Caucasus and Primaries.

Could be a backlash against him because of his vulgar debate performance.

Ted Cruz has won Kansas and leading in other states.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2016 - 04:23pm PT
After Cruz becomes unstoppable in the Primaries....
The GOP will be looking for ways to "Dump Cruz"

They want a puppet, not a loony Canadian that's only claim to fame is shutting down the Government and persuading all Congress to hate him
Norton

Social climber
Mar 5, 2016 - 04:27pm PT
They want a puppet, not a loony Canadian that's only claim to fame is shutting down the Government and persuading all Congress to hate him

true, Craig

and if Cruz picks up some steam and delegates then I have to believe a lawsuit
challenging his "natural born" citizenship is not far off
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 5, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
A Soldiers View



http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/04/opinions/donald-trump-military-hertling/index.html
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2016 - 05:30pm PT
Approximately 23% of any human population consists of right wing authoritarians. They may be white, black or brown.
So Canada like any other place has these people causing trouble.

I was born in So. Cal. by Canadian parents that had become US citizens before I was born, so I am a natural born citizen, not that I would ever want to run for the worst job ever.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 5, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Werner, what does CNN have to do with anything?
The piece was written by Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 5, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
Hitler , inspite of the hair lip , was a better than Stalin...

True... Far "less" a genocidal nutcase.

The lesser of two evils. Like how we're being told to 'vote' in this country.

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 5, 2016 - 05:54pm PT

After Cruz becomes unstoppable in the Primaries....
The GOP will be looking for ways to "Dump Cruz"

They want a puppet, not a loony Canadian that's only claim to fame is shutting down the Government and persuading all Congress to hate him

They will have a brokered convention, and the nomination will go to Kasich.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 5, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
and if Cruz picks up some steam and delegates then I have to believe a lawsuit
challenging his "natural born" citizenship is not far off

Already filed back in January by Mr. Schwartz

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/266039-attorney-files-birther-lawsuit-against-cruz

Cruz challenged in Feb.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/266039-attorney-files-birther-lawsuit-against-cruz

The beat goes on

The 4 Must-Follow Lawsuits Challenging Cruz’s Presidential Eligibility

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/the-4-must-follow-lawsuits-challenging-cruzs-presidential-eligibility/



Illinois: Separate lawsuits filed by Lawrence Joyce, an Illinois pharmacist and attorney, and William K. Graham, have forced the Cruz campaign to respond to the idea of an eligibility conundrum through a motion to dismiss. Joyce, a Ben Carson supporter, filed a complaint with the Illinois State Board of Elections to remove the former Texas Solicitor General from the state ballot. The Board of Elections dismissed the complaint and Joyce sued. The appeal is expected to be heard Friday in Cook County Circuit by Judge Maureen Ward Kirby.

New York: Two New Yorkers, Barry Korman and William Gallo, filed a complaint last Wednesday in New York state court in Manhattan alleging that the junior Senator should be disqualified from the New York Republican primary set for April 19. Like in Illinois, Cruz is not a named defendant, rather the suit requests that the New York State Board of Elections have Cruz’s name struck from the ballot.

Texas: No love for the hometown candidate in The Lone Star State. Newton B. Schwartz, Sr., an 85-year-old Houston lawyer, filed suit back in January seeking a declaratory judgment in the U.S. District Court in Southern District of Texas over Cruz’s Presidential eligibility. Schwartz, an apparent Bernie Sanders supporter, said to The Hill, “However persuasive one finds each side in this debate, the final decision ultimately rests in the hands of five or more of nine Justices on the Supreme Court as mandated by the Constitution.” Clearly, Schwartz spoke prior to the shocking and politically salient death of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia.

Utah: Walter L. Wagner, a Utah citizen and trained lawyer, also filed a complaint in January in federal district court seeking a declaratory judgment. Wagner’s suit, like the others, rests on the accusation that Cruz is not a “natural born citizen” because Cruz was born in Canada. “I’m a natural-born citizen, and most people are in this country, and it just doesn’t seem proper,” Wagner told BuzzFeed News.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Mar 5, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
I don't have a horse in this race but, when people say Cruz has accomplished nothing I am compelled to set the record straight.

Cruz graduated c#m laude from Princeton.
He won both the U.S. National Debating championship and the North American debating championship.

Cruz went on to Harvard Law School and graduated Magna C#m Laude.
He was a primary editor of the Harvard Law Review and executive editor Of the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy.

At Harvard professor Alan Dershowitz (hardly a conservative) said “Cruz was off –the-charts brilliant.”

Cruz went on to clerk for William Rehnquist, Chief Justice of The Supreme Court.

Cruz has authored 70 Supreme Court briefs, and argued nine cases before the Supreme Court. All were won.

Cruz has been named by American Lawyer magazine as one of the 50 Best Litigators under 45 in America, by The National Law Journal as one of the 50 Most Influential Minority Lawyers in America, and by Texas Lawyer as one of the 25 Greatest Texas Lawyers of the Past Quarter Century.

He is by far the most accomplished individual in the race.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
Rubio is a distant 3rd in all races
and Kasich has been at ~1%

for Kasich to have a chance the other 3 will have to drop dead
but you never know with the most corrupt group of folks will do when squeezed into a corner, Kasich could be anointed the GOP nominee by the Party.
I think Rubio is too tainted now after all the GOP debates.


^^^
Ksolem, you got me, Cruz has done so much more.....
Cruz is very accomplished in getting crappy conservative decisions through the corrupt right wing courts.

Please respond with some Cruz wins of note...

Cruz is the Classic Authoritarian Leader, he uses religion, patriotism, fear, anger and guilt like a preacher to herd a huge flock of authoritarian followers.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 5, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
Cruz, Trump, Clinton, Sanders...

Fuk 'em all

OZZY FOR PRESIDENT !!!!

[Click to View YouTube Video]
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 5, 2016 - 06:56pm PT
I'm beginning to think my guy Cruz has a good chance at the nomination. With the historic turnout on the repub side versus anemic turnout on the dem side the general will be a slam dunk. That is if the dems even have a candidate this side of the slammer.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 5, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Mar 5, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
I wonder what The Chief would say.


Susan
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 5, 2016 - 08:36pm PT

Just to set the record straight

How many people has Hillary Murdered?


Well I predict that if Hillary is elected 10,000's of heads will explode. So there is that.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 5, 2016 - 08:45pm PT
I'm beginning to think my guy Cruz has a good chance at the nomination. With the historic turnout on the repub side versus anemic turnout on the dem side the general will be a slam dunk

You think a Cruz,or Trump for that matter, will result in anemic turnout on the D side? That's delusional. I expect high turnout on both sides.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 5, 2016 - 08:50pm PT
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 5, 2016 - 09:56pm PT
I hate all the lies being perpetuated about Hillary, are you saying she has killed people??

That's sick and disgusting
It just goes to show the inner personality of the people that believe anything they are told, they look for the confirmation bias to hate

For God sakes she was Secretary of State when our evil empire was propping up, arming, and providing air support (i.e. killing people from the sky) for the "rebels" in Libya.

So yeah, she contributed to the outright murder of many people.

Like if you just drive the car to the bank but only your buddies kill the security guards inside. The driver is still guilty of those felonies. I bet she did more than drive the car too.

If you can't see that I'm sorry. And no, no Wikipedia page is going to point out Hillary's crimes.

And once again, I'm not saying Trump isn't evil too, just perhaps less of a bloody history in this sick and twisted group of folks. Hillary's just a proven and trusted member of the club.



Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 6, 2016 - 05:16am PT
Man, we could have seriously used Craig Fry at our last Elk Camp. It was a beautiful spot but a really long way from the creek.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 6, 2016 - 05:59am PT
Why has nobody demanded to see Trump's schlong form girth certificate?
dirtbag

climber
Mar 6, 2016 - 06:06am PT
Zing!

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 6, 2016 - 07:52am PT
I'm still waiting to hear about Cruz'z good wins.

In the mean time I did my own research,
and I can see why we will have to wait till hell freezes over to hear about anything good about Cruz.

----


Senate Candidate and Supreme Court Have a History


By AMAN BATHEJA
JULY 22, 2012

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/us/politics/a-history-for-senate-candidate-ted-cruz-and-supreme-court.html?_r=0

In nearly every speech Ted Cruz delivers in his United States Senate campaign, he repeatedly mentions the United States Supreme Court.

Whether Mr. Cruz, the former Texas solicitor general, is recalling the time he argued that a state should not have to follow an order from an international body or the brief he wrote in defense of a Ten Commandments monument on public property, Mr. Cruz’s work before the nation’s highest court during five-plus years as solicitor general has served as the cornerstone of a somewhat unorthodox campaign.

Mr. Cruz worked on so many high-profile cases because he and his former boss, Attorney General Greg Abbott, set out to engage in politically charged issues.

“We ended up year after year arguing some of the biggest cases in the country,” Mr. Cruz said. “There was a degree of serendipity in that, but there was also a concerted effort to seek out and lead conservative fights.”

read more


In other words, he has been fighting the courts for far right wing Conservative issues for purely political purposes; religious liberty, Christian Superiority, abortion, increasing criminal sentences, and making sure people get put to death.

So we can surely say that Cruz has murdered people, since the ST poster known as "fear" has educated us on who is responsible when people die from Government intervention, it's very simple = Cruz murdered THEM.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 6, 2016 - 07:57am PT
Cruz went on to Harvard Law School and graduated Magna C#m Laude.
He was a primary editor of the Harvard Law Review and executive editor Of the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy.

At Harvard professor Alan Dershowitz (hardly a conservative) said “Cruz was off –the-charts brilliant.”

Cruz is just another one of those Cookie Cutter politicians
Him and Obama both went to the same school..

we the people need fresh blood in the office
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Mar 6, 2016 - 08:11am PT
I'm a Penn graduate. It's about time Penn got recognized.
Well maybe not.


Susan
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 6, 2016 - 08:16am PT
I CUMfused???...

more like I CROTCHfused???...
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Mar 6, 2016 - 09:37am PT
Just need to compliment locker on his great "selfie" in the pair with The Donald... Fully shows his great photographic skill.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Mar 6, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 6, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
Trump lost big in Puerto Rico. Can't wait to hear the sound bite from him on that one.

There was also a good "Prairie Home Companion" Guy Noir skit where he was talking with "Trump" and ripped on his disavowing the KKK moment of glory. My connection os awful, or I would look for a link. Pretty funny.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 6, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
And you're suprised by the rise of Donald?


**The band: Little Big Town
Song: Pontoon

Back this hitch up into the water
Untie all the cables and rope
Step onto the astro turf
Get yourself a koozie
Let's go

Who said anything about skiing?
Floatin' is all I wanna do
You can climb the ladder
Just don't rock the boat while I barbecue

On the pontoon
Makin' waves and catchin' rays up on the roof
Jumpin' off the back, don't act like you don't want to
Party in slow motion
Out here in the open
Mmmmmm motorboatin'

Reach your hand down into the cooler
Don't drink it if the mountains aren't blue
Try to keep it steady as you recline on your black intertube**

OMG- We're fuked!


pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 6, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
Brother of slain civil rights leader Medgar Evers endorses Trump.

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/politics/2016/03/04/brother-slain-civil-rights-leader-medgar-evers-endorses-trump/81311762/

This doesn't mean all the middle aged white dudes on this forum have to stop calling Trump a racist. It just makes it that much funnier.

dirtbag

climber
Mar 6, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
Well, Trump IS a racist pig. There is nothing funny about it.


If you hate freedom, and embrace authoritarianism, trump is your man. He's a protofascist thug.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Mar 6, 2016 - 08:57pm PT
HD - ask and you shall receive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG5kSgJtyQg

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 07:01am PT
If Donald gets any more popular, you guys are gonna need bigger buckets.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 07:24am PT
pud posts
This doesn't mean all the middle aged white dudes on this forum have to stop calling Trump a racist. It just makes it that much funnier.

"Guys a black person agrees with me" is one of the oldest racism fig leaves in the book. Why does this endorsement make you feel like you can ignore the millions of people who disagree? Women are complicit in reinforcing biases against women. There are plenty of black people complicit in perpetuating the white power structure. Most of us are fairly blind to the bars of our cage, much less our part in keeping them in place.



Crimpie posted
HD - ask and you shall receive!

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Watched this this morning. Too excellent.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:06am PT
This is super good

It demonstrates wacko far Right Wingers trying to confuse the old time racist Southern Dems with the Dems of today.

This guy is blaming the Division of the racists on Liberals!!!
and says that's what the left does, just like the other opposite bubble world people say, it's very misleading for people that can not do the critical thinking to see it's just WRONG

[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:10am PT
Craig, I happened to watch that live last week. Lord was spouting off utter nonsense that I think he actually believed. I thought a fight might break out.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:25am PT
Craig, I happened to watch that live last week. Lord was spouting off utter nonsense that I think he actually believed. I thought a fight might break out.

Internet bonding. Sweet.


dirtbag

climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:30am PT
Do you have any comments about the video, pud?

Do you have any thoughts about your candidate's advocacy for breaking international laws related to torture, weakening laws protecting the press' ability to scrutinize and even criticize candidates, and routinely advocating the beating of protestors at his rallies, pud?

Are you comfortable backing an authoritarian, pud?



Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:32am PT
Are you comfortable backing an authoritarian, pud?

Can he get the trains to run on time?
dirtbag

climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:38am PT
No, he couldn't even get anything done on time.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:40am PT
Even with those hands?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:41am PT
Reilly posted
Can he get the trains to run on time?

Ha! This is America. We got rid of our trains ages ago.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:46am PT
Looks like we can call Trump a Murderer, according the definition "fear" has explained to us

So yes fear, Trump has killed people just like Hillary, you got to hold the TOP accountable, right fear?

3 Ways Donald Trump Has Behaved Like a Sociopath Toward Workers
There's been a lot of focus on Trump's controversial comments, but not his controversial labor record.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/3-ways-donald-trump-has-behaved-sociopath-toward-workers

1. Many of the workers constructing a Trump International Hotel in DC are undocumented.

2. Trump Tower was built by Polish immigrants who were paid $5/hour.

3. A worker fell to his death constructing Trump SoHo.

In 2008, while building a Trump hotel in lower Manhattan, a form that was used to pour concrete broke causing workers Yurly Vanchytsky and Francesco Palizzotto to fall 42 stories. Yanchytsky was killed and Palizzotto fell into a net, but suffered a brain injury and was unable to work again.


How many more deaths will Trump be responsible for?
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
A researcher at MIT’s Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Lab has built a computer system that’s smart enough to produce original lines that feel like they’re straight out of a Trump speech. He’s posting them on Twitter, at @DeepDrumpf.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
And he will be a perfect counterpoint to Hillary Clinton to exemplify how the country is doubling down on stupidity after the humdinger Obeezy turned out to be.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
Oh yeah, he's a keeper for sure.


EDIT: If only they could have blocked everything. So that no one in government did anything. That, would have been progress for sure.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 7, 2016 - 12:47pm PT

this Country of ours is in a better place now, since Obama has been President...

No doubt about it. The benefits of a more inclusive society, will be far reaching.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 7, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
Hey, esco...can you give a few examples of how the Obama presidency has directly and negatively impacted your life over the last 7+ years?

Edit: love your Dead Milkmen avatar pic...now that's a keeper!
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 7, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
Craig, your blind rage against Trump isn't letting you think clearly.

Perhaps Trump has murdered people. It wouldn't surprise me.

But Hillary certainly has, as Secretary of Defense she fully supported, and encouraged the coup in Libya which has, and continues to, kill thousands of innocent people. She glibly refuses to admit any wrongdoing too.

The circus of this entire election is so farcical it could be an Onion article.

Everyone has become preconditioned to think they have a choice. You don't. The evil will persist. Aside from wedge issues (guns/weed/gays/etc), the empire will continue to rape and pillage.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
You forgot one of his accomplishments....and we are talking progress of massive proportions

Its OK, he doesn't like to brag about it much.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
this Country of ours is in a better place now, since Obama has been President...

FACT!!!...


This country added $10 Trillion dollars, a 100% increase in debt since Obama has been president.


FACT!!!!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
For that kind of money I don't want some crappy ObeezyCare doctor. I want the "thorough" kind.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 01:49pm PT

explain how Donald Trump gets to 270 Electoral Votes.......

dirtbag

climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
That image would justifiably eliminate any other candidate. Yet in the primaries, trump keeps on ticking.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
explain how Donald Trump gets to 270 Electoral Votes.......

ES&S
Norton

Social climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
What does that acronym mean?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 7, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
Bloomberg is OUT!


The Risk I Will Not Take

MAR 7, 2016 5:00 PM EST
By Michael R. Bloomberg

Americans today face a profound challenge to preserve our common values and national promise.

Wage stagnation at home and our declining influence abroad have left Americans angry and frustrated. And yet Washington, D.C., offers nothing but gridlock and partisan finger-pointing.

Worse, the current presidential candidates are offering scapegoats instead of solutions, and they are promising results that they can’t possibly deliver. Rather than explaining how they will break the fever of partisanship that is crippling Washington, they are doubling down on dysfunction.

Over the course of American history, both parties have tended to nominate presidential candidates who stay close to and build from the center. But that tradition may be breaking down. Extremism is on the march, and unless we stop it, our problems at home and abroad will grow worse.

Many Americans are understandably dismayed by this, and I share their concerns. The leading Democratic candidates have attacked policies that spurred growth and opportunity under President Bill Clinton -- support for trade, charter schools, deficit reduction and the financial sector. Meanwhile, the leading Republican candidates have attacked policies that spurred growth and opportunity under President Ronald Reagan, including immigration reform, compromise on taxes and entitlement reform, and support for bipartisan budgets. Both presidents were problem-solvers, not ideological purists. And both moved the country forward in important ways.

Over the last several months, many Americans have urged me to run for president as an independent, and some who don’t like the current candidates have said it is my patriotic duty to do so. I appreciate their appeals, and I have given the question serious consideration. The deadline to answer it is now, because of ballot access requirements.

My parents taught me about the importance of giving back, and public service has been an important part of my life. After 12 years as mayor of New York City, I know the personal sacrifices that campaigns and elected office require, and I would gladly make them again in order to help the country I love.

I’ve always been drawn to impossible challenges, and none today is greater or more important than ending the partisan war in Washington and making government work for the American people -- not lobbyists and campaign donors. Bringing about this change will require electing leaders who are more focused on getting results than winning re-election, who have experience building small businesses and creating jobs, who know how to balance budgets and manage large organizations, who aren’t beholden to special interests -- and who are honest with the public at every turn. I’m flattered that some think I could provide this kind of leadership.

But when I look at the data, it’s clear to me that if I entered the race, I could not win. I believe I could win a number of diverse states -- but not enough to win the 270 Electoral College votes necessary to win the presidency.

In a three-way race, it’s unlikely any candidate would win a majority of electoral votes, and then the power to choose the president would be taken out of the hands of the American people and thrown to Congress. The fact is, even if I were to receive the most popular votes and the most electoral votes, victory would be highly unlikely, because most members of Congress would vote for their party’s nominee. Party loyalists in Congress -- not the American people or the Electoral College -- would determine the next president.

As the race stands now, with Republicans in charge of both Houses, there is a good chance that my candidacy could lead to the election of Donald Trump or Senator Ted Cruz. That is not a risk I can take in good conscience.

I have known Mr. Trump casually for many years, and we have always been on friendly terms. I even agreed to appear on “The Apprentice” -- twice. But he has run the most divisive and demagogic presidential campaign I can remember, preying on people’s prejudices and fears. Abraham Lincoln, the father of the Republican Party, appealed to our “better angels.” Trump appeals to our worst impulses.

Threatening to bar foreign Muslims from entering the country is a direct assault on two of the core values that gave rise to our nation: religious tolerance and the separation of church and state. Attacking and promising to deport millions of Mexicans, feigning ignorance of white supremacists, and threatening China and Japan with a trade war are all dangerously wrong, too. These moves would divide us at home and compromise our moral leadership around the world. The end result would be to embolden our enemies, threaten the security of our allies, and put our own men and women in uniform at greater risk.

Senator Cruz’s pandering on immigration may lack Trump’s rhetorical excess, but it is no less extreme. His refusal to oppose banning foreigners based on their religion may be less bombastic than Trump’s position, but it is no less divisive.

We cannot “make America great again” by turning our backs on the values that made us the world’s greatest nation in the first place. I love our country too much to play a role in electing a candidate who would weaken our unity and darken our future -- and so I will not enter the race for president of the United States.

However, nor will I stay silent about the threat that partisan extremism poses to our nation. I am not ready to endorse any candidate, but I will continue urging all voters to reject divisive appeals and demanding that candidates offer intelligent, specific and realistic ideas for bridging divides, solving problems, and giving us the honest and capable government we deserve.

For most Americans, citizenship requires little more than paying taxes. But many have given their lives to defend our nation -- and all of us have an obligation as voters to stand up on behalf of ideas and principles that, as Lincoln said, represent “the last best hope of Earth.” I hope and pray I’m doing that.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 7, 2016 - 02:28pm PT
Those crappy ObezzyCare Doctors???
They have special doctors now????

Did they go to a special school??

Locker
as we all know, you can't argue with stupid
they have no interest in change
Norton

Social climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 02:40pm PT
Those crappy ObezzyCare Doctors???

?

which one of our 14 year olds said that?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 02:43pm PT
For $10 trillion dollars, you'd think the country would at least get a reach around.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
Let me break it down for ya. Through 2012, the cost of Bush's policies was $5.1 trillion, and the cost of Obama's policies was $983 billion.

Exercise for the reader, get the 'through 2016' numbers.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 7, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
Crappy docs? Just be glad they're not Canadian. My bro-in-law barely survived a bout
with three retarded Canadian docs. My wife finally diagnosed him over the phone and told
him to get his ass to the ER toute d' suite and TELL them to pull their heads outta their asses.
Phukking pathetic. Did I mention he had MRSA? I guess it's no big in the Great White North.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 03:20pm PT
true

in addition, the House has been in strong Republican majority since 2010

the House per our Constitution is the spending branch of government, all major
spending programs must be voted on and approved by the House

per the 14 year old's logic, therefore every dollar added to the deficit and national debt since 2010 belongs to the party he will be old enough to vote for someday
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
Last time I checked, Obreezy signs them too....


Your guy doubled the national debt. I wouldn't want to talk about that either if he was my homeboy.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
Reading problem?

Your Republicans doubled the debt

Do you still not understand our Constitution

You cannot accept that every major spending bill
since 2010 was voted and passed by your House Repubs
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 04:56pm PT



Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 04:56pm PT
Question: I know that Bloomberg needed to commit to running before a predetermined date, and it was some time in March. What I am wondering is - would that rule also pertain to a candidate who is currently running on a ticket?

Say, Trump get's dumped from the GOP at some point, even as a surprise at the convention - would he then be able to 3rd party it, or must he have committed to 3rd party run before some deadline like that with applied to Bloomberg?

I ask because it occurred to me that maybe the RNC is waiting for such a deadline to pass before telling Trump "YOU'RE FIRED!"
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 7, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
As a practical matter, it will be over at the next Supetuesday.

Too many delegates will be committed.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
Happie, I think the answer to your question is kind of complicated because each state has its own filing deadline.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 7, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 7, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 05:22pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 7, 2016 - 05:23pm PT
This is the state of the GOP
wiener size....
I'm sure this will excite all the 14 year old wiener boys
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
Just say no to Meldonium Trump.

...the ... Drug Sharapova took is used to treat heart problems, diabetes and wild boar impotence
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
Norton

Social climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
wow

what does Hillary waving to someone have to do with Trump telling his followers
to raise their hands and pledge to register and vote for him?

weak, you pick that one up in high school today?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 7, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
Craig, is that you?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 7, 2016 - 07:08pm PT
Cosmic, what exactly are the similarities between Hillary Clinton, Methodist gal from Illinois & odds-on favorite to be the first woman president of our great nation, and Adolf Hitler?

Wouldn't you agree that there are more similarities between Trump and Hitler, what with the hate and bigotry stuff? And that "raise your hand and pledge" deal? You wouldn't do that right?

Read this first:

Trump’s flirtation with fascism

So it has come to this: The front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination, at a campaign rally in Orlando Saturday, leading supporters in what looked very much like a fascist salute.

“Can I have a pledge? A swearing?” Trump asked, raising his right hand and directing his followers to do the same. He then led them in pledging allegiance — not to the flag, but to Trump, for which they stand and for whom they vowed to vote.

Trump supporters raised their arms en masse — unfortunately evoking the sort of scene associated with grainy newsreels from Italy and Germany.

Among those not engaging in such ominous imagery were the demonstrators, who, by my colleague Jenna Johnson’s account, interrupted Trump’s event more than a dozen times. The candidate watched a supporter grab and attempt to tackle protesters, at least one of them black, near the stage. “You know, we have a divided country, folks,” Trump said. “We have a terrible president, who happens to be African American.”

Loaded imagery, violence against dissenters and a racial attack on the president: It’s all in a day’s work for Trump.

In the preceding days, he had asserted (and later retracted) his confidence that as president the military would obey his orders to do illegal things: torture detainees and target non-combatant kin of terrorists for death. He said House Speaker Paul Ryan, a fellow Republican, would “pay a big price” for defying him, and he said Sen. John McCain, who criticized Trump, needs to “be very careful.” Trump explained his initial hesitance to disavow support from the Ku Klux Klan and white supremacists by saying such groups could have included “the Federation of Jewish Philanthropies” — prompting the head of the Anti-Defamation League to call his words “obscene.”

And some still deny Il Duce Donald’s autocratic tendencies?

Abe Foxman, a Holocaust survivor and the retired longtime head of the ADL, said that Trump leading thousands in “what looks like the ‘Heil Hitler’ salute is about as offensive, obnoxious and disgusting as anything I thought I would ever witness in the United States.” He told the Times of Israel that Trump is “smart enough” to know what he was doing.

I’ve perhaps never agreed with Glenn Beck before, but the right-wing radio personality was right to hold up a Nazi ballot on ABC’s This Week on Sunday morning. “We should look at Adolf Hitler in 1929,” said Beck, who usually saves his Nazi analogies for liberals. Beck added: “Donald Trump is a dangerous man with the things that he has been saying.”

The Germans, too, find him dangerous — and they should know. Der Spiegel, the German newsmagazine, last month called Trump “the world’s most dangerous man” and leader of a “hate-filled authoritarian movement” who “inflames tensions against ethnic minorities …while ignoring democratic conventions.”

I wish I could enjoy Trump, who at last week’s debate defended the size of his penis. But this isn’t a conventional debate between Democrats and Republicans or insiders and outsiders. Trump is on the wrong side of a struggle between decency and bigotry, between democracy and something else.

Yet, incredibly, the other candidates in the race — Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio and John Kasich — all said they’d support Trump if he wins the nomination. The morning after Trump’s salute, the morally neutral Republican National Chairman Reince Priebus told CBS’s John Dickerson the that his “role is to basically be 100 percent behind” the eventual nominee.

A braver man, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), sent a letter Friday to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff asking if he would heed orders to torture detainees or to target noncombatant relatives of terrorists. Trump, who in reply said Graham “should respect me” and bragged that he “destroyed” Graham’s presidential candidacy, has retreated slightly, saying he’d change laws to allow things such as waterboarding. Without that, he said, “we’re weak.”

Trump lately shows his strength by talking about his wish to punch protesters in the face or by asking them “are you from Mexico?”

As some Republican office holders and donors belatedly try to unify the anti-Trump movement, more are seeing Trump’s words and deeds foreshadowing darker things. On Monday, Jane Eisner, editor of the Jewish Forward, quoted Holocaust historian Deborah Lipstadt: “Some people didn’t approve of Hitler’s anti-Semitism, but they went along with it because he was going to make Germany great again.”

And comedian Louis C.K., who says he would like to see a conservative president, wrote to his fans about Trump this weekend that “we are being Germany in the ’30s. Do you think they saw the [expletive] coming? Hitler was just some hilarious and refreshing dude with a weird comb over who would say anything at all.”

Where does Trump’s flirtation with fascism end? Nobody knows.

But don’t say you didn’t see it coming.

Twitter: @Milbank
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 7, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
saying that we are dealing with 14 year olds here give 14 year olds a bad name

Esco, is that You?
who is it?
it's not me.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
jstan

climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
HFCS at a loss for words?????????

Everyone hold on while I make a note in my diary.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 7, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
Am I president now?

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Mar 7, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
NO,he is not.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 7, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
Why is Hillary showing us how big her hand is?
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
Why is Hillary showing us how big her hand is?

There once was a miss from Wake Forest
Who had a gigantic clitoris.
Most of her friends, you see,
Thought her name was Marie,
But her intimates knew her as Horace.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:31pm PT
#golfclap
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:45pm PT
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:50pm PT
he directed them to pledge to HIM, not to the US flag, or to the nation, or to the planet, or to feed little crackbaby orphans, but to him, the billionaire. seems a little weird. maybe that's just godwin's law or my jewish titular speaking. maybe.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 7, 2016 - 09:51pm PT
Yes, just as in Germany, MrE
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Mar 7, 2016 - 11:18pm PT
*
Really? Come on Cosmic.....


pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 8, 2016 - 04:42am PT
+1 cosmic

What a WEIRDO
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 8, 2016 - 05:17am PT
What a couple of fags...!
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 8, 2016 - 05:21am PT
Left Hand Suzuki Method

Hmmm. Black and lefthanded, indeed. Now that is a biting revelation about one of the two of you...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 8, 2016 - 05:39am PT
It matters not if you vote for Trump or Hill. We just get there by different roads is all.

Unless, of course, that road happens to be First St NE, Washington, DC...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 8, 2016 - 06:14am PT
Trump just re-released his stance on gun issues:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

PROTECTING OUR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS WILL MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

Donald J. Trump on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms

The Second Amendment to our Constitution is clear. The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed upon. Period.

The Second Amendment guarantees a fundamental right that belongs to all law-abiding Americans. The Constitution doesn’t create that right – it ensures that the government can’t take it away. Our Founding Fathers knew, and our Supreme Court has upheld, that the Second Amendment’s purpose is to guarantee our right to defend ourselves and our families. This is about self-defense, plain and simple.

It’s been said that the Second Amendment is America’s first freedom. That’s because the Right to Keep and Bear Arms protects all our other rights. We are the only country in the world that has a Second Amendment. Protecting that freedom is imperative. Here’s how we will do that:

Enforce The Laws On The Books

We need to get serious about prosecuting violent criminals. The Obama administration’s record on that is abysmal. Violent crime in cities like Baltimore, Chicago and many others is out of control. Drug dealers and gang members are given a slap on the wrist and turned loose on the street. This needs to stop.

Several years ago there was a tremendous program in Richmond, Virginia called Project Exile. It said that if a violent felon uses a gun to commit a crime, you will be prosecuted in federal court and go to prison for five years – no parole or early release. Obama’s former Attorney General, Eric Holder, called that a “cookie cutter” program. That’s ridiculous. I call that program a success. Murders committed with guns in Richmond decreased by over 60% when Project Exile was in place – in the first two years of the program alone, 350 armed felons were taken off the street.

Why does that matter to law-abiding gun owners? Because they’re the ones who anti-gun politicians and the media blame when criminals misuse guns. We need to bring back and expand programs like Project Exile and get gang members and drug dealers off the street. When we do, crime will go down and our cities and communities will be safer places to live.

Here’s another important way to fight crime – empower law-abiding gun owners to defend themselves. Law enforcement is great, they do a tremendous job, but they can’t be everywhere all of the time. Our personal protection is ultimately up to us. That’s why I’m a gun owner, that’s why I have a concealed carry permit, and that’s why tens of millions of Americans have concealed carry permits as well. It’s just common sense. To make America great again, we’re going to go after criminals and put the law back on the side of the law-abiding.

Fix Our Broken Mental Health System

Let’s be clear about this. Our mental health system is broken. It needs to be fixed. Too many politicians have ignored this problem for too long.

All of the tragic mass murders that occurred in the past several years have something in common – there were red flags that were ignored. We can’t allow that to continue. We need to expand treatment programs, because most people with mental health problems aren’t violent, they just need help. But for those who are violent, a danger to themselves or others, we need to get them off the street before they can terrorize our communities. This is just common sense.

And why does this matter to law-abiding gun owners? Once again, because they get blamed by anti-gun politicians, gun control groups and the media for the acts of deranged madmen. When one of these tragedies occurs, we can count on two things: one, that opponents of gun rights will immediately exploit it to push their political agenda; and two, that none of their so-called “solutions” would have prevented the tragedy in the first place. They’ve even admitted it.

We need real solutions to address real problems. Not grandstanding or political agendas.

Defend The Rights of Law-Abiding Gun Owners

GUN AND MAGAZINE BANS.

Gun and magazine bans are a total failure. That’s been proven every time it’s been tried. Opponents of gun rights try to come up with scary sounding phrases like “assault weapons”, “military-style weapons” and “high capacity magazines” to confuse people. What they’re really talking about are popular semi-automatic rifles and standard magazines that are owned by tens of millions of Americans. Law-abiding people should be allowed to own the firearm of their choice. The government has no business dictating what types of firearms good, honest people are allowed to own.

BACKGROUND CHECKS.

There has been a national background check system in place since 1998. Every time a person buys a gun from a federally licensed gun dealer – which is the overwhelming majority of all gun purchases – they go through a federal background check. Study after study has shown that very few criminals are stupid enough to try and pass a background check – they get their guns from friends/family members or by stealing them. So the overwhelming majority of people who go through background checks are law-abiding gun owners. When the system was created, gun owners were promised that it would be instant, accurate and fair. Unfortunately, that isn’t the case today. Too many states are failing to put criminal and mental health records into the system – and it should go without saying that a system’s only going to be as effective as the records that are put into it. What we need to do is fix the system we have and make it work as intended. What we don’t need to do is expand a broken system.
**
NATIONAL RIGHT TO CARRY**.

The right of self-defense doesn’t stop at the end of your driveway. That’s why I have a concealed carry permit and why tens of millions of Americans do too. That permit should be valid in all 50 states. A driver’s license works in every state, so it’s common sense that a concealed carry permit should work in every state. If we can do that for driving – which is a privilege, not a right – then surely we can do that for concealed carry, which is a right, not a privilege.
**
MILITARY BASES AND RECRUITING CENTERS**.

Banning our military from carrying firearms on bases and at recruiting centers is ridiculous. We train our military how to safely and responsibly use firearms, but our current policies leave them defenseless. To make America great again, we need a strong military. To have a strong military, we need to allow them to defend themselves.


++++++++++++++++++++
Funny how he didn't mention the assault weapons ban. Maybe that because he supports it?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 8, 2016 - 06:39am PT
Just what we need, a true leader who knows how to work with other nations.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Foreign diplomats are expressing alarm to U.S. government officials about what they say are inflammatory and insulting public statements by Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump, according to senior U.S. officials.

Officials from Europe, the Middle East, Latin America and Asia have complained in recent private conversations, mostly about the xenophobic nature of Trump's statements, said three U.S. officials, who all declined to be identified.

I asked my mom, who said she's going to vote for Trump, why she favors him. She said it's because he knows how to work with China, the Middle East, and other countries.

How come people are so blind? What do you think Cosmic?

What's your reason for backing Trump?


PS. That picture of Mao, he's not giving a Nazi salute, he's waiving. And here in America, we put our hand over our heart to pledge, no Nazi salute sir.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 8, 2016 - 06:44am PT
Escopeta, why do you continually mix up what Sanders is saying with socialism? He identifies as a "democratic socialist."
Do you know the difference, or are you just playing dumb?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 06:51am PT
Escopeta posted
That's really the challenge with socialism. Its not that everything works for a while, but eventually some people look at others and wonder why they are pulling the cart for THEM.

Unsurprisingly, you're again wrong. Socialist countries don't seem to have this problem. This is something brought up repeatedly in American politics, but most other countries believe in having a robust safety net and the public overwhelming support their systems. America, where we judge people's value on their ability to make money, has this in spades despite demonstrating repeatedly that we'd rather let people starve to death than pull their cart. Add this to the long list of things you'd like to believe are true but aren't.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Mar 8, 2016 - 06:56am PT
Escopeta said: That's really the challenge with socialism. Its not that everything works for a while, but eventually some people look at others and wonder why they are pulling the cart for THEM.

and while in its worded purity the above concept is true, the oppositely worded concept is equally as true:

That's really the challenge with capitalism. Its not that everything works for a while, but eventually the others look at some people and wonder why they are loading carts for THE FEW.



as long as the u.s. is an actual democracy it will continue to slowly and repeatedly swing between the two conceptual poles of collectivism and individualism.

neither of which, due to the human condition, can exist with purity in actual day to day governing life for any historically significant amount of time.



and so, imo, the issue at hand is whether or not the u.s. remains a democracy that continues to refind and then swing past a balance between the two or if whether, like so many banana republics, the voting is, at this point, purely for show...

this election suggests it likely is, at least in some regards, still a democracy.

this is because, despite the best efforts of entrenched power on both sides of the aisle, there are candidates representing and appealing to a complexity of views... [regardless of how polarized those views have become and how unable one side is to even see parts of what is driving the "other" side.]

and as polarized as the differing views are, that is what a still functioning democracy must strive to effectively navigate.



and so that is to my mind, the real question of an election like this: is the u.s. still a functioning democracy?

because if it is, none of the candidates will be able to bring their singular visions into fruition with perfect idealism, regardless of what they promise.

and this is just as the case should be.



and that's why i believe if trump does somehow get elected, he would be a good stress test for the american system. if the u.s. is still a functioning democracy then all of his promises to ban muslims and build giant unfinancable walls and perpetrate war crimes and etc will be for naught.

otoh, if he is able do some or most of the above things, then the u.s. was and is no longer a functioning democracy anyway.

and if that's the case, then what real difference does it make who steers the ship into the iceberg, other than to determine the speed with which it's driven?



if this existing structure of governance is standing in the way of continued exploration, testing and refinement, and i'm not convinced that it is, then there is no more effective navigator than trump to inadvertantly expose it for what it is and burn it to the ground.

because while i don't believe it is true in this case, sometimes the only way to raise up a new structure, is to raze the older one that is standing in the way.

time will tell.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:03am PT
Let’s be clear about this. Our mental health system is broken. It needs to be fixed. Too many politicians have ignored this problem for too long.

Well, yes, it's been a tough problem ever since Ronny Raygun decided it would be a good idea to dismantle the nation's mental health system.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:03am PT
106 year old Armenian woman prepares for the coming of Donald

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:06am PT
I love how people come out of the woodwork to press the euphemisms.

Heck, Democracy doesn't even guarantee or equate to Freedom. Much less 'Democratic Socialism'

The real question is do YOU understand what "Democratic Socialism" means.

Its Marxism with a democratic wrapper. How nice that we get to vote for our masters. That makes it all better.

Economic planning and social ownership of the means of production are unaffected by whether or not you can vote. Voting becomes a rote gesture. Some would argue we are approaching that specific point already. Just need to inject the whole Marxism part.

The minute we move to true social ownership of capital infrastructure is the minute I get on the dole and you will see no more production from me. Do you think I'm alone?

No thanks, brother.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:07am PT
Support fascism, it's faschionable


WTF - even King couldn't turn the tide

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:10am PT
Escopeta posted
The minute we move to true social ownership of capital infrastructure is the minute I get on the dole and you will see no more production from me. Do you think I'm alone?

Please. Tell us about all the fantasy rebellions against imagined scenarios with no foundation in reality that play out in your head.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:15am PT
The minute we move to true social ownership of capital infrastructure is the minute I get on the dole and you will see no more production from me.

You're from a state on the federal dole - how much production are we seeing from you?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:28am PT
how much production are we seeing from you?

Not much at all, you won't even miss it.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:37am PT
Heck, Democracy doesn't even guarantee or equate to Freedom. Much less 'Democratic Socialism'

I suppose you thought you were talking about something pertinent, but by gosh, I can't figure out what that might be.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:38am PT
106 year old Armenian woman prepares for the coming of Donald

And thanks to Donald's support of our 2nd amendment, she can own her AK with a 30 round clip and not worry about it.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:46am PT
I suppose you thought you were talking about something pertinent, but by gosh, I can't figure out what that might be.

Not surprising, some people in this country have moved so far from the idea of real freedom that its not even part of their lexicon or thought process anymore.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:54am PT
"Real freedom," what do you mean by that?

Please, if you can, elaborate what real freedom means to you.
Because to me, it sounds like complete anarchy.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 8, 2016 - 08:04am PT
My concept of freedom is well documented. I confess myself curious about what YOUR concept of freedom looks like.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 8, 2016 - 08:14am PT
I asked a pretty straight-forward question in an attempt to understand what it is you're saying. Telling me to go back and research your previous posts does not help me understand you. Obfuscation.

That's OK, you want to sound like you talk a big game. But in the end, if you can't explain what you're trying to say, then your words land empty and mean little.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 8, 2016 - 08:19am PT
So, this democratic socialism will there be meetings?

Of course!

No meetings....
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 8, 2016 - 08:20am PT
OK, how about another question. Does "real freedom" to you mean that I should be free to pollute rivers, unregulated?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 8, 2016 - 08:21am PT

And thanks to Donald's support of our 2nd amendment, she can own her AK with a 30 round clip and not worry about it.

Umm, the second amendment only applies to this country.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 8, 2016 - 08:21am PT
Esco, I think he wants a manifesto. Don't give in, I beg you.

More likely, that Armenian lady is looking for the first Turk who crosses her path.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 8, 2016 - 08:33am PT
106 year old Armenian woman prepares for the coming of Donald


And thanks to Donald's support of our 2nd amendment, she can own her AK with a 30 round clip and not worry about it.

First, it's a magazine, not a clip.

Second, that's at least a 40.

Third, with that arthritis she might need 100 to hit anything.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 08:34am PT
Regarding the hands up pledge - I am giving the benefit of the doubt on it. Some journalists have written that he knew damned well how it would have come across in images, but I just wouldn't go that far.

We pledge allegiance with hand over heart, but we "solemnly swear" with our right hand raised.

Wonder if there were any of that crowd of believers that crossed their fingers while going along with the crowd, though.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 8, 2016 - 08:53am PT
First, it's a magazine, not a clip.

Second, that's at least a 40.

Third, with that arthritis she might need 100 to hit anything.

1st, it may be a magazine but I can call it a moon pie if I like.
2nd, it may be a 40 but, she still needs to thank Donald.
3rd, if she deburred and smoothed the cam surfaces of trigger and hammer on that rifle, she'll have no problem using it.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 8, 2016 - 08:55am PT
Werner, almost every one of your posts begs the same question.

Why do you stay in this country?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 8, 2016 - 09:20am PT
OK, how about another question. <Bachelor Number 1> Does "real freedom" to you mean that I should be free to pollute rivers, unregulated?

Oooh. I like this format. It's kind of like a twisted version of the dating game.

"No, I don't believe "real freedom" would support the polluting of rivers unregulated."

Next question.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 8, 2016 - 09:43am PT
Just as I thought, even you yourself do not support "real freedom."

So your statement that's meant to sound smart just sounds dopey:

Not surprising, some people in this country have moved so far from the idea of real freedom that its not even part of their lexicon or thought process anymore.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 09:52am PT
New poll: 67% of Americans view Trump unfavorably, 56% strongly view him unfavorably.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/08/a-record-number-of-americans-dont-like-donald-trump-and-thats-very-important-to-remember/
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 10:04am PT
Werner, almost every one of your posts begs the same question.

Why do you stay in this country?

That sort of rhetoric reminds me of the "If you don't vote, you have no right to complain" and "If you don't like it, leave" stuff. We have the right to free speech here in this country, and personally I would much rather have someone making pretty nonthreatening mocking statements about my beliefs in our governmental systems than be have a Donald Trump type posting in the forums.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 10:20am PT
dirtbag posted
New poll: 67% of Americans view Trump unfavorably, 56% strongly view him unfavorably.

If Repubs don't burn their party to the ground after he clinches the nomination this will change substantially since 80% of the people currently talking about how unfit he is to be President will be talking about how awesome he is compared to Hillary.

Escopeta posted
"No, I don't believe "real freedom" would support the polluting of rivers unregulated."

Next question.

How are you guys still falling for this shtick?
dirtbag

climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 10:27am PT
I don't know: 67% don't like him. Those folks taking the survey aren't just republicans, who are more likely to support anyone not named Clinton, those folks are general voting public. Hillary isn't popular either: 52% dislike her, but this will be a lesser of two evils type of election. And keep in mind, criticism of Hillary has been relentless since the 90s. People already have their opinions about her. Trump's opponents, in contrast, have only recently begun to pound him, and as we all know, he has amassed a terrible record since he began campaigning; things from his pre-campaign days, such as trump university, will inevitably get a ton of attention.

I don't think this means dems should be the least bit complacent, but as far as getting elected, I'd much rather be in her shoes.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Mar 8, 2016 - 10:31am PT
We have the right to free speech here in this country, and personally I would much rather have someone making pretty nonthreatening mocking statements about my beliefs in our governmental systems than be have a Donald Trump type posting in the forums.


Hippy.... I will post wherever I wish.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 10:37am PT
Of course you will post whatever you wish, Toyman. Never suggested you should be exempt form freedom of speech.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 10:38am PT
dirt posted
I don't know: 67% don't like him. Those folks taking the survey aren't just republicans, who are more likely to support anyone not named Clinton, those folks are general voting public. Hillary isn't popular either: 52% dislike her, but this will be a lesser of two evils type of election.

The voting takes place in 8 months. These polls are evidence of what is happening now and little else. Right now the whole world and 2/3 of the Republican Party is tearing into Trump and he's still winning. The majority of the Republicans who disfavor him will change their tune, especially when Trump is saying horrible things about someone they hate (Clinton) instead of someone they like or kind of like.


Happie posted
Never suggested you should be exempt form freedom of speech.

"Freedom of speech" prohibits the government from telling someone to shut up. The rest of us are free to do so. I'm not saying we should, it's just a commonly misreferenced "right."
dirtbag

climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 10:43am PT
Right now the whole world and 2/3 of the Republican Party is tearing into Trump and he's still winning

They've been tearing into him for only about 2 weeks. There is a lot more damage to be done to his likability. And while the election is 8 months out, the simple fact is that those are absolutely horrible numbers for a presidential candidate to be sporting this early. Most candidates are usually more or less liked at this point.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 8, 2016 - 10:46am PT
"Freedom of speech" prohibits the government from telling someone to shut up. The rest of us are free to do so. I'm not saying we should, it's just a commonly misreferenced "right."

I find it refreshing to see someone accurately state that principle, which you've largely done, although some rulings require "public places" on private property to allow expression the property owner wishes to suppress. Thus far, no such ruling has applied to cyberspace. Accordingly, those who decry online interferance with "freedom of speech" usually miss the point.

John
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 8, 2016 - 10:49am PT
Werner, almost every one of your posts begs the same question.

Why do you stay in this country?

That sort of rhetoric reminds me of the "If you don't vote, you have no right to complain" and "If you don't like it, leave" stuff. We have the right to free speech here in this country, and personally I would much rather have someone making pretty nonthreatening mocking statements about my beliefs in our governmental systems than be have a Donald Trump type posting in the forums.

Practically every one of werner's posts include a complaint about the U.S.
I don't particularly care what he thinks, I just find it strange that he would choose to stay in a place he obviously dislikes.

In the same sentence you want free speech but, only if everyone agrees with you.
I'm not sure what a "donald Trump type" is but I'm guessing it's anyone with a perspective different than yours.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 10:51am PT
dirtbag posted
They've been tearing into him for only about 2 weeks. There is a lot more damage to be done to his likability. And while the election is 8 months out, the simple fact is that those are absolutely horrible numbers for a presidential candidate to be sporting this early. Most candidates are usually more or less liked at this point.

If he clinches the nomination and the RNC doesn't decide to rend itself in two about it I think you'll see a dramatic change. People's opinions are pretty labile. There was all kinds of drama about if Clinton voters would support Obama or not.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 10:54am PT
I stand corrected. The distinction has never occurred to me before.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 8, 2016 - 10:55am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 11:09am PT
with some 26 Senate seats to defend it is the Republicans turn to sweat out an election

Trump vs Clinton down ticket voting will very likely turn the Senate Democratic

The House will remain in Republican control likely until at least 2022 when the changing demographics could at least equalize the perfect Repub gerrymandering

the Democrats inability to win less than national elections seems very largely a result
of their voters' apathy to show up at mid term elections

why? why do the Repubs get their people to the polls in mid terms in significantly higher numbers than Democrats?

Is it because motivating your base to vote is a lot easier when the emotions of hatred are employed or is it because the city and state Democratic Party organizations are so pathetically ineffective at getting out the message that when Dems show up they win
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 8, 2016 - 11:15am PT
I don't particularly care what he thinks, I just find it strange that he would choose to stay in a place he obviously dislikes.

In the fourteen years I've been here, I've never heard Werner say he dislikes this country. Now his thoughts on stoopid 'mericans, that's a different subject.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 8, 2016 - 11:26am PT
Wener is on to something. In a poll of 33 counties tabulating the percentage of people who believe in evolution we finished 32nd. brhind Iran and barely in front of Turkey.
We have one of the most beautiful countries on the planet.....can't say that about a lot of the inhabitants....look at the support for a clown like Trump.
Bellylaughs abound around the globe.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 8, 2016 - 11:39am PT
Is it because motivating your base to vote is a lot easier when the emotions of hatred are employed or is it because the city and state Democratic Party organizations are so pathetically ineffective at getting out the message that when Dems show up they win

More like Democrats wanting things handed to them rather than putting forth the effort it takes to affect change.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 8, 2016 - 11:39am PT
ust as I thought, even you yourself do not support "real freedom."

I love it. You equate freedom to anarchy, Then you use river pollution as the litmus test for freedom. Then claim I'm the one that's small minded.

No wonder socialism appeals to you so much.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 8, 2016 - 11:46am PT
Still haven't seen your definition.

Stating that "your body of blogging work" doesn't quite cut it.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 11:50am PT
More like Democrats wanting things handed to them rather than putting forth the effort it takes to affect change.

strange conclusion, Pud

especially considering that Democrats DO show up in numbers that swamp Republicans in the every four years national elections

so by your logic, Republicans want "things handed to them" when they don't
support their candidates by being too lazy to vote in the Presidential elections, having lost five of the last six popular vote margins

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 11:52am PT
Escopeta
I love it. You equate freedom to anarchy, Then you use river pollution as the litmus test for freedom. Then claim I'm the one that's small minded.


No, just trolling.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 8, 2016 - 12:01pm PT
Escopeta writes:

I love it. You equate freedom to anarchy, Then you use river pollution as the litmus test for freedom. Then claim I'm the one that's small minded.


First, I did not equate freedom to anarchy. I asked you what you meant by "real freedom," and said that to me it sounded like anarchy. Either you don't read very well, or you're trying to play word games.

And for the record, I never said you were small minded. Another attempt at putting words in my mouth. That might work when you deal with your mother, but I'm not your mother.

If you go back and read what I said, you'll find I'm trying to figure out what you meant by "real freedom." Because you didn't answer directly, I went with what I thought that meant--anarchy. And, given that you don't yourself believe in anarchy, I said your quote about it sounded dopey.

Now, I'll say this: If you want to debate like a an informed adult, it's best if you behave like one.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
k-man posted
Either you don't read very well, or you're trying to play word games.


Or a third option that I keep trying to point out to you.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 8, 2016 - 12:32pm PT

Now, I'll say this: If you want to debate like a an informed adult, it's best if you behave like one

is that what you are doing? I said I was ready for the next question. Hit me with your next freedom litmus test.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 8, 2016 - 12:41pm PT
More like Democrats wanting things handed to them rather than putting forth the effort it takes to affect change.

strange conclusion, Pud

especially considering that Democrats DO show up in numbers that swamp Republicans in the every four years national elections

so by your logic, Republicans want "things handed to them" when they don't
support their candidates by being too lazy to vote in the Presidential elections, having lost five of the last six popular vote margins

Norton, I know there's little we agree on but, can you give me a better reason your party currently seems to rally against the GOP only on social media?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 8, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
"why do the Repubs get their people to the polls in mid terms in significantly higher numbers than Democrats?"...

It's demographics not the parties getting the people to the polls.

The GOP has a large proportion of older people who make a point to vote in every election. It's like saying gee, I wonder why this bingo parlor is full of old white people?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 8, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
It appears some of the partisans here have their rote objections and rhetoric tuned in to refuting the Republican Party line but when someone espouses a call for something other than the continued march of big government and reduced individual liberty, you get all flustered. Then claim troll which seems to be the standard ST replacement for "I don't have an answer, so I'll just call you a troll and feel better about myself"
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 8, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
is that what you are doing?

No. I'm actually just jerking your chain. Seems appropriate.


... but when someone espouses a call for something other than the continued march of big government and reduced individual liberty, you get all flustered.

Is that what you're doing? (LOL)



When people stop believing in FAIRY TALES...

Locker, don't you dare try to convince me that the Tooth Fairy isn't Scarlet Johansson dressed in a pink tutu.
I only have one tooth left, and I know I'm gonna catch her with this one.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 8, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
Puds American System

If you don't like how America is going down the tubes, don't fix it, just get the fuk out.

His other system after the first; You can stay in America only if you ....

STFU and remain a quiet sterile robot and do as you're told.

Pud the closet fascist .....

So much anger.
No peace in the valley?
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 8, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
Personally, I've only decided who I won't vote for. Clinton for her general dishonesty, Cruz because he's controlled by his "fear of god", Sanders because he says what he thinks people want to hear and Rubio because he has no presence.

Trump is scary because of his reactionary attitude but will be much like Shwartzenegger when he landed the California governorship.
Full of ideas that get shut down by the reality of the situation and somewhat level headed administrations, thus limiting his "power" to react.

I'd vote for Werner if he'd run. Sounds like he's a doer.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 8, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
Trump is scary because of his reactionary attitude but will be much like Shwartzenegger when he landed the California governorship.

Trump is like Shwartzenegger? Good god.


For one, Shwartzenegger acknowledges that climate change is caused by humans. In other words, at least Shwartzenegger operated in reality.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 04:32pm PT
Hit me with your next freedom litmus test.

I'll play.

What do you think Khris Kristofferson meant when he wrote "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose," and how does that equate with your definition of the word "freedom?"

I'm not sure what a "donald Trump type" is but I'm guessing it's anyone with a perspective different than yours.
What I meant by "Donald Trump type" is the kind pf person who uses ad hominen attacks, and who responds to debate by obfuscating.

EDIT: I was just looking at Trumps' Twitter feed, and he has another post about how his campaign is self-funded

As has been written by others, he has actually loaned his campaign the money, and it is being repaid out of donations to the campaign. Someone said "yeah but unsolicited donations won't make up what he is spending."

Maybe, maybe not. I have no idea. But what occurred to me is that he will write off any portion of "the loan" that isn't repaid on his 2016 taxes. I would love to see some journalist take up that topic with him....

If he said(which he did, although I am paraphrasing) that his bankruptcies were just a businessman taking advantage of US laws, what in hell would stop him from writing off his presidential campaign costs?????
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 8, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
Hit me with your next freedom litmus test.

At what time since 1776 do you believe the entire population of the United States (not just educated, white, christian, heterosexual males) was most free?

Do you honestly believe President Trump will do a single thing to bring us closer to that mythological time?

TE
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 8, 2016 - 06:10pm PT

As has been written by others, he has actually loaned his campaign the money, and it is being repaid out of donations to the campaign

Borderline money laundering.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 8, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
Norton, I know there's little we agree on but, can you give me a better reason your party currently seems to rally against the GOP only on social media?

well Pud, not being involved in political planning on any level, I don't know

I don't what your point is, are you saying Republicans don't use social media?

no that can't be it, not hard to use and all, lots of it on twitter, face book, etc

or are you talking about the conservative dominance of radio and cable news?

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
Is there something other than social media we should be using to get the message out - PUD?
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 8, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
DMT:
I hate those 'let's pretend all Americans are stupid' videos. Goddamned liars.

See, this guy went out of his way to make people look stupid. Probably asked hundreds to get those few. He and his viewers have to make other people look bad to make themselves feel good.

Huell Howser went out of his way to make people look good, because that made him and his viewers feel good.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 8, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
Donald again, for the wins. The lead grows.

Faint Republican hearts flutter......
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 8, 2016 - 09:48pm PT
Cruz won in Idontknow. The most Republican state in the U.S., thanks to all the conservative Californicators that have moved here.

Looking at the Idaho map of county voting returns, the east Idaho Mormons voted as a bloc for him.

How strange.

Escopeta will be excited to learn someone that hates America and wants to turn OUR public lands over to private owners, is favored by his brethen.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 9, 2016 - 06:04am PT
So I'm reading the book "The Appeal" by John Grisham, and the plot at this point involves corporate interests "replacing" a state Supreme Court Justice who would be unlikely to side with the corporation when a case on appeal is presented to the court. The company is spending large amounts of cash to make sure a "more attractive" judge takes the upcoming election...

But a twist seems to be emerging at the point I am just now reading. For some reason, "the bad guys" have paid off a third person to run in this election. Originally, they told "more attractive" candidate that he would sneak into the race at the last minute and take the incumbent by surprise.

This third guy is a wild card - loud, abrasive, obnoxious. But charming in his way, like a spectacular car crash involving a brawny muscle car being driven hard by an idiot with no respect for it's beauty.

I don't know how the story plays out, but it says he is there as a distraction.

Reading it I thought "Is Trump the third, distracting, guy?" This has, of course been the contention of many already.Mostly that he is there to help Hillary preside in the end.

So...maybe those who have already read "The Appeal" can offer their insight: If our presidential election goes the way the Supreme Court one did in the book, what happens? It won't ruin my enjoyment of the book, as I read more for enjoying the wordsmithing and imagery, and knowing the end or a plot twist won't affect that.



Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:22am PT
Wow!!!!! I sure ain't votin' for Hillary Obama after this:

"In a bombshell world exclusive, The National ENQUIRER has learned that U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia’s death was a highly planned “political assassination” orchestrated by the CIA and carried out by a $2,000-a-night hooker! A top Washington, D.C. source said the Feb. 13 death of the 79-year-old jurist at a remote Texas ranch just 15 miles from Mexico was part of a “shocking conspiracy that tracks back to the CIA and the White House!"
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:25am PT
Jim posted
Why no one is going for Trump's throat over being a supposed personal bankrupt is because of the 2 basic forms of establishing a business.


People have brought this up over and over again on the stump, in ads and in the debates. Nobody cares.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:29am PT
Is there something other than social media we should be using to get the message out - PUD?

Show up at the polls?


The world will end and the sky will turn black when Trump is elected. The waters will boil and the winds will stop. The birds will fall and the fish will float. Our skin will fall off and our eyes will implode. The boogie man is coming, get your night lights and your blankies ready.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:43am PT
So you guilt-ridden Calvinists masquerading as deep-thinking iconoclasts seem to think that
filing bankruptcy is a moral failing only one step removed from pederasty. Henry Ford went
bankrupt four or five times before he got it right. And I would think someone who has gone
bankrupt would be eminently suited to run a country that is in hock up to its eyeballs.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:50am PT
Reilley posted
Henry Ford went
bankrupt four or five times before he got it right.

Also: really hated Jews. Coincidence?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:55am PT
Having to file bankruptcy when you have done the best you could to be responsible and unforeseen conditions put you under the gun, you have done your best to pay down the credit granted to you but cannot get out from under it despite paring down your expenses, and all else has failed, is one thing. To use it as a business strategy is another.

The same people who decried home owners who bought into subprime mortgages as selfish and piggish people unworthy of empathy, who should have "known" they couldn't afford to carry the debt, are now saying Trump was just "being a businessperson."

Trump has legions of people who can run numbers and advise him. The homeowner was usually dependent of consultants who were NOT looking out for their best interests.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:56am PT
Today at work it's Burrito Wednesday in excitement for TRUMPS wall!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:56am PT
I knew you Calvinists would bring up all that irrelevant stuff.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 9, 2016 - 08:25am PT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 9, 2016 - 08:38am PT
Happie, buying too much house isn't the main reason for personal bankruptcy; a study at Harvard showed that 62% of bankruptcies were due to medical expenses. Also, 97% of all bankruptcy filings are by individuals, not businesses.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 9, 2016 - 09:10am PT
Happie, buying too much house isn't the main reason for personal bankruptcy; a study at Harvard showed that 62% of bankruptcies were due to medical expenses. Also, 97% of all bankruptcy filings are by individuals, not businesses.

Facts like this have no place in Happy's spin.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 9, 2016 - 09:42am PT
Norton

Social climber
Mar 9, 2016 - 09:49am PT


regardless of how much more really bad personal character stuff comes out..

You WILL vote for Donald in November, won't you? of course you will....
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 9, 2016 - 09:55am PT
WHY would you buy a steak off of the Sharper Image......

Marketing genius or just a hail mary?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 9, 2016 - 10:42am PT
I'm still holding out hope that Cruz can catch fire and win this thing by delegate count. If it has to go to ballot I expect him to use all of his legal talent. But, if as looks likely, Trump prevails most of the electorate will mark Trump over Hillary. Some enthusiastically others reluctantly. Like it or not the establishment, be it R or D, has the broadest low level of public trust and respect in our lifetimes.

On another note Trump and Sanders stated policies are remarkably similar though achieved by different practices.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 9, 2016 - 10:57am PT
Cruz catch fire? Doubt it.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 9, 2016 - 11:19am PT
Our country makes the worst deals! We need to be respected around the globe and make deals from a place of strength. Stupid politicians leave us and our great friends in Israel less safe.
Donald Trump
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 9, 2016 - 11:42am PT
We are huge bullies, actually. We club other countries into the ground with our economic clout. Why are you believing this crap?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 9, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
We are huge bullies, actually. We club other countries into the ground with our economic clout. Why are you believing this crap?

HDDJ you must be some evil Muslim
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 9, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
Things that make you go "see"

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 9, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
If, for example, Roboto were to drop out of the race, who would get his 151 delegates? Would they still vote for him on the first ballot, or can they switch their votes?
Norton

Social climber
Mar 9, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
I see your point, Pyro

when you can dig a tunnel under a wall who needs Donald Trump's wall

are you going to switch your vote back to Marco Rubio now?

He likes digging holes, look at the one he has himself in right now!
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 9, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
Wow!!!!! I sure ain't votin' for Hillary Obama after this:

"In a bombshell world exclusive, The National ENQUIRER has learned that U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia’s death was a highly planned “political assassination” orchestrated by the CIA and carried out by a $2,000-a-night hooker!

Winemaker, that reminds of a headline in The Onion's Our Stupid Century:

"JFK Killed by FBI, CIA, Castro, LBJ, Mafia" or words to that effect.

And Norton, it turns out my wife and I are not alone, at least according to Bret Baier. They claim "some Republicans" would vote for Hillary to prevent Trump from taking over the party.

http://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-bret-baier-some-republicans-could-back-hillary-clinton-over-donald-trump/

Maybe if he and his supporters take over the Republican party, Trump could really resemble Hitler, who took over the German government without ever winning a majority.

John
couchmaster

climber
Mar 9, 2016 - 02:53pm PT

Saw a pretty good rebuttal to John Olivers super funny video which was posted earlier. Here it is in full (link at the end):

"INTRO

There is an epidemic that long ago infected politics. It is lying. Politicians lie, political reporters lie, and foreign-born-comedians-turned-commentators-on-American-politics lie.

Long ago, John Stuart Mill advocated for the “marketplace of ideas” to help us get closer to the truth. That theory suffers when all of the contributions to the “marketplace of political ideas” are terribly one-sided.

John Oliver once remarked, “The problem is that the loudest Journalism in America is generally saying the least.”

I now introduce to you the latest entry into the problem with American Journalism: John Oliver’s “piece” about Donald Trump, which is very loud and offers little of value.

Most of the blame for Oliver’s trafficking in lies falls with him. It’s also important for private citizens to do their own research; but honestly, who has the time to research 21 minutes of claims? Oliver, on the other hand, earns millions by feeding this stuff to the world.

I didn’t earn a dime from my research efforts here. In the spirit of making a contribution to the “marketplace of ideas,” here is the most thorough inspection of every claim that Oliver made.

Oliver is hardly the only culprit. But he’s deserving of this breakdown because his Trump video has gone viral and because he has an image of being an honest source of information. This doesn’t mean his other works are dishonest. But this Trump piece was mostly trash, and I suspect any truth-seeker would like to have all the facts. So, here they are.

Oliver sets up his piece as follows. Oliver first identifies that Trump supporters like him for his honesty, strength, and successful. Naturally, then, he spends the majority of his show trying to show that Trump is a liar, weak, and unsuccessful. We’ll take these 3 themes one at a time, exploring every reason Oliver gives in support of them.

***

Theme 1: Trump is a Liar

John Oliver Reason #1: Politifact checked 77 of Trump’s statements and rated 76% of them as varying degrees of false.

Oliver refers to Politifact for political facts. An amateur move. Despite the name, Politifact is widely regarded as less than factual. This is one of the few things that major liberal and conservative media agree upon. There’s even a website called PolitifactBias.com exists for the sole purpose of “Exposing bias and mistakes at the Politifact website.”

Here’s an example of one of Trump’s statement that they rated as a lie.

“If it weren’t for me … (illegal immigration) wouldn’t even be a big subject.”

Politifact rating this as a lie flies in the face of common sense for a lot of people. Trump actually did seem to make illegal immigration a big subject. So, they better have some damn good evidence to support their claim.

Their evidence? They ran a Lexis Nexis search of how frequently “illegal immigrant” and “undocumented” appeared within 10 words of “president” in major newspaper stories before and after Trump’s campaign announcement speech. They found no significant difference. Obviously, this is a weak metric, and a stupid way of implementing it.

But let’s see what this metric would turn up if we actually ran a search that could shed some insight into whether Trump brought immigration to the fore. Trump’s announcement speech talked a lot about illegal immigration coming from Mexico. So, if he made illegal immigration a big subject, and he tied it conceptually to Mexico, then we should see a large increase in discussions of illegal immigration and Mexico after Trump’s announcement.

I ran my own Lexis Nexis search for the words “illegal immigrant” and “Mexico” appearing within the same paragraph during the same time period before and after Trump’s campaign announcement speech. Guess what? A 660% increase in the period following Trump’s announcement.

Politifact isn’t all bad. But the fact that they’ve rated 76% of 77 Trump statements as false doesn’t carry much weight. They actually fact-checked Trump saying basically the same thing about making illegal immigration a big subject twice, using the same stupid Lexis Nexis metric both times, and included both in Trump’s 77 statements. Here are a few other “fact checks” that were obviously wrong.

-Trump on the unemployment rate.

-Trump on a CNN poll showing that he was hypothetically tied with President Obama.

-Trump on Kuwait never reimbursing the U.S.

-Trump on the number of illegal immigrants in the U.S.

And a quick footnote—Politifact has rated 9 of Oliver’s statements. Would it surprise you to find out that they rated zero of them false?

John Oliver Reason #2: Trump once attacked Jon Stewart by tweeting “If Jon Stewart is so above it all and legit, why did he change his name from Jonathan Leibowitz? He should be proud of his heritage!” And then two years later, Trump wrote “I never attacked dopey Jon Stewart for his phony last name. Would never do that!”

The Daily show first aired a segment that said that Trump’s birth name is F*#kface von Clownstick. Trump responded by attacking the fact that Stewart doesn’t even use his birth name.

Stewart tweeted in reply: “Can’t an overrated Jew have a complicated relationship with his dad without being accused of hiding his heritage? #F*#kFaceVonClownstick.”

The Huffington Post, taking the bait that Stewart set for them by implying Trump had said something negative about Stewart being Jewish when he hadn’t, then published an article titled “Donald Trump’s Jon Stewart Tweet: An Anti-Semitic Insult?”

In light of accusations of anti-Semitism, Trump’s tweet, “I never attacked dopey Jon Stewart for his phony last name” takes on a different meaning. This tweet is a rebuttal to allegations that Trump is anti-Semitic.

Remember, Oliver is trying to use these two tweets to prove Trump lied. It seems more likely that Trump is simply saying that he didn’t attack Stewart for his phony last name. Indeed, he attacked him for not using his birth name. There is a big difference, and, had Oliver provided the proper context, this would not have counted very strongly as evidence of Trump as a liar.

John Oliver Reason #3: He claimed falsely to have turned down an appearance on John Oliver’s “very boring” “Last Week Tonight.” But when we pointed out that he had never been invited, this is how he responded: “I checked with my people, and he asked me to be on the show 4 or 5 times.” Oliver: “I even checked to make sure that no one had accidentally invited him, and of course they hadn’t.”

On the surface, this is one person’s word against another’s. Bear in mind, Trump has been on many major late night shows this campaign season, including Colbert, Kimmel, and Fallon. Do you really think that Oliver would turn down having Trump on his show? Of course he wouldn’t. Oliver would love to have Trump on his show. It’d be yuge!

But would he reach out to Trump to invite him? I doubt it. Oliver is a smart guy. He’s never had a politician on his show before, let alone the front runner and presumptive presidential nominee of the Republican Party. In other words, Trump would never go on his show, and Oliver knows it. So I doubt he invited Trump.

In Trump’s defense, it’s plausible that Trump confused “John Oliver” with someone else. Can you imagine the number of interview requests he gets daily? This is hardly evidence that Trump is a liar. It is overwhelmingly likely that Trump misspoke. And Oliver is being a bit disingenuous here himself, since he obviously would invite Trump on his show if he thought he had a chance of booking him.

John Oliver Reason #4: “The implication that he has personally spent $20-$25 million is a bit of stretch, because he has actually loaned his campaign $17.5 million dollars, and has personally given just $250k. And that’s important because up until the convention he can pay himself back for the loan with campaign funds.”

The law “prohibits contributions from corporations.”

In 2015, Trump’s campaign spent $12.4 million. Over $2 million of that went to flights on his company’s planes and helicopters and $250,000 to office space owned by his company. Trump legally can’t give his planes or office space to his campaign, since those things belong to his company. His company must loan them to his campaign. It’s the law.

The difference between loaning at zero interest and giving to his campaign is indeed that Trump can use campaign contributions to pay down those loans. Of course, Trump has explicitly told people not to send him money along the way, and his campaign donations make up a very small percentage of his campaign expenditures. Trump has spent $23.7 million so far. On the whole, he has taken in $7.5 million from individual donors. Individual donations have accounted for 33% of Trump’s campaign expenditures. The rest, 67%, or roughly $16.2 million, Trump and the Trump Organization have paid for.

The thing that gets some people confused about loans is that they don’t understand that whether The Trump Organization loaned the money to the campaign, or Trump spent the money out of his own pocket, either way the money has already been spent on campaign related things. Trump’s on the hook for that $16.2 million, whether his company or he himself paid it.

Compare that against Bernie Sanders, who has taken in $93.9 million from individual donors, has spent $80.7 million, and isn’t on the hook for a dime. In fact, Bernie’s campaign has $14.6 million socked away in the bank.

Why does Trump have $7.5 million from individual donors while Bernie has 1,250% of that, with $93.9 million from individual donors? The difference is that Bernie is constantly soliciting individual donations, while Trump is the only candidate in the race, and in modern history, who specifically tells his supporters not to send him money.

It’s ridiculous to say that Trump isn’t self-funding merely because 33% of his campaign funds have come from individual donations, and in a John Oliver fairytale world, individual donors will magically appear and cover the remaining 67% before the convention.

Trump is the only one who is spending his own money. And he’s currently responsible for paying for 67% of his campaign’s expenditures.

John Oliver Reason #5: “Even he admits that his campaign is by no means self-funded. He makes it sound like women are stuffing grimy dollar bills in envelopes writing Donald Trump on the front, and he’s too kind to send them back. But he’s taken in $7.5 million dollars in individual contributions. And if he didn’t want it, maybe he shouldn’t have two donate buttons on his website. Because money isn’t unsolicited when you have to ask for someone’s credit card expiration date to receive it.”

Oliver’s explanation for why Trump’s website has donate buttons is a stretch. He implies that, despite Trump telling people not to donate to him at every turn, Trump is up to something devious. Trump is using his psychological powers to manipulate people into donating to him by…telling them not to donate to him. Is this really the best explanation available? No.

The more plausible explanation is that Trump’s website has buttons to accept donations because he knows that people want to invest in candidates, even if it’s only a small amount, even if the candidate doesn’t want it. You become more connected to a campaign if you send a few bucks to it. It’s a tradition in American politics and it makes a statement about who you are. Other people know this, too. And if Trump didn’t have a central hub for accepting these donations, hucksters and scam-artists would surface and try to accept donations from people instead. They are already out there anyway, trying to take super PAC money on behalf of Trump (even though Trump has explicitly told all super PACs supporting him to shut down) and selling rip-off Trump merchandise.

Now, if Trump wanted donations, we’d see him doing fundraisers, right? Hillary Clinton has done over 300. Jeb Bush did over 150. Trump has done 0 fundraisers.

Folks, Trump is telling his supporters at every turn NOT to send him money. He hasn’t made even the slightest gesture towards trying to raise money. He has a button on his website so that those folks who simply insist on investing in Trump’s campaign have a safe outlet to do so.

Those are the 5 reasons Oliver gives for why Trump is a liar. Each claim has been thoroughly debunked! Let’s move on to Theme 2: “Trump Isn’t Tough.”

***

Theme 2: Trump isn’t Tough

John Oliver Reason #1: “For a tough guy, he has incredibly thin skin. [Short fingers/Vanity thing]”

In the late 80s and early 90s, Spy magazine carried out a “lonely war” against Trump. The founder of Spy, Graydon Carter, who has been Vanity Fair’s editor since 1992, has been writing and publishing gossip columns about Trump for nearly three decades. He covers Trump to sell magazines. As a token of gratitude to Trump, Carter tries to “drive him a little bit crazy.” Trump responds in kind by trying to drive Carter a little bit crazy, mocking the banality of criticizing him for his fingers by sending him pictures of his fingers. This isn’t thin-skinned. Thin-skinned would be walking up to Carter and punching him in the face. This is a harmless way of having fun at Carter’s expense, for a change. Think about it: How would you feel about someone who had been running negative gossip columns about you for 30 years and earning their living by doing so? In that light, Trump’s response has been measured and kind-hearted.

Have a dose of what Trump experiences on a daily basis from these types of people. Here’s a 2011 Vanity Fair article titled “Donald Trump Still Really into the Donald Trump-is-Running-for-President Story.” Have a sample of this brilliant piece of analysis: “Trump said things about his finances that are highly unbecoming of someone who is pretending to be interested in appealing to a diverse electorate.” Guess they missed the mark on that one.

Trump took to copyediting the story for them, pointing out various factual inaccuracies. Perhaps the most humorous one is: “Trump reportedly owns parts of real estate projects.” Really? He reportedly owns parts of real estate projects? Given all of the sage advice and thoroughly vetted facts that they drop throughout this article without the caveat of “reportedly,” I’m pretty sure that they can also just say that he owns parts of real estate projects. Trump took the liberty of pointing out that he owns “plenty of wholes” of real estate projects, too. How thin-skinned of him.

John Oliver Reason #2: “He loves to threaten to sue people, like he does with Rosie O’Donnell. But he never sued her. In fact he’s repeatedly threatened people with lawsuits and not followed through. Including Mac Miller, Lawrence O’Donnell, Vanity Fair, and an activist who launched a petition for Macy’s to drop Trump’s products. He doesn’t actually ever sue anyone, but he says it all the time.”

Over the course of his career, Trump has initiated or been the target of “hundreds” of civil lawsuits. The Daily Beast, no fan of Trump, has published that Trump “has sued people, businesses and entire cities and countries…Trump sues when he is made to feel small, insufficiently wealthy, threatened or mocked. He sues for sport, he sues to regain a sense of control, and he sues to make a point….But he sues, most of all, to make headlines and to reinforce the notion that he is powerful.”

Though this analysis is thoroughly infected with hyperbole, and presumes access to Trump’s psyche that it can’t possible have, it’s correct on the basic count that Trump sues a lot. At the same time, we are the most litigious nation in the world. This seems to be a byproduct of our legal institutions. For example, unlike the rest of the world, in the U.S. the losing party is not responsible for the legal costs of the winning party. That encourages lawyers to bring risky cases.

So, how do you co-exist in a litigious society? Trump has targeted many people with lawsuits, but he’s also been the target of many lawsuits. Trump’s lawyer Alan Garten said in 2015 that being involved in civil law suits was “a natural part of doing business in this country.”

Has Trump initiated weak lawsuits? Arguably, yes. His lawsuit against Bill Maher is an example. We can only assume that Trump knew that it was probably weak, but that he wanted to express his discontent with being called the son of an Orangutan.

By the way, Maher, two years after Trump levied the lawsuit against him, said that Trump is “the king of brushing things off his shoulder.” Even one of the most high profile targets of a weak Trump lawsuit believes that Trump is not thin-skinned.

But some of Trump’s other lawsuits make allegations that, if true, are legitimate and important. For example, Trump initiated a $100 million lawsuit against Palm Beach County claiming that officials, in a “deliberate and malicious” act, pressured the FAA to direct air traffic to the Palm Beach International Airport over his Mar-a-Lago estate. If that’s true, it’s a big problem, and Trump deserves the chance to make his case in court

There was also that time that Trump sued Palm Beach after they cited him for flying a large American flag on an 80-foot pole, which violated a regulation requiring flags be flown on flag poles no higher than 42 feet. Trump explained that “A smaller flag and pole on Mar-a-Lago’s property would be lost given its massive size…and most importantly would fail to appropriately express the magnitude of Donald J. Trump’s and the Club’s members’ patriotism.” The two sides eventually came to a resolution, allowing Trump to fly the giant flag on a 70-foot flag pole.

Oliver gives just two reasons for why Trump isn’t tough. Both are far weaker than Trump’s lawsuit against Bill Maher. Let’s go on to Theme 3: “Trump Isn’t Successful.”

***

Theme 3: Trump isn’t Successful

John Oliver Reason #1: “Perhaps his biggest selling point as a candidate is his success. But it’s worth noting that while, yes, he has made more money than most of us will make in our lifetimes, not only did he get a multi-million dollar inheritance from his father…”

The Trump isn’t successful line of attack is surely the weakest of the three.

Trump’s story is fairly simple. His father, Fred Trump, built his first one-family home in Queens in 1923. By 1973, Fred had become one of the wealthiest people in the U.S. He owned apartment complexes worth $200 million. Around that time, Fred handed off management of the Trump Organization to Donald, who was in his mid-20s, and was, according to Fred, the smartest person he knew. Donald famously endeavored to build in Manhattan, receiving financial and political help from his father. By the end of the 70s Donald had firmly planted himself in Manhattan, transforming the Commodore Hotel into the Grand Hyatt New York.

When Donald graduated college in 1968, he was worth $200,000. By 1982, after significantly expanding the Trump Organization, and without having received any inheritances, but having received loans and political help from his father, Donald’s net worth had skyrocketed to $200 million. In 1999, when Fred passed away and the Trump children split the roughly $200 million inheritance he left them, Trump was worth $1.6 billion according to Forbes. In 2015, Forbes determined that Trump’s net worth was $4.5 billion.

Indeed, Donald’s success is predicated upon his father’s. Not unlike how Oliver’s success is predicated upon John Stewart plucking Oliver from obscurity and eventually letting him showcase his talents as the host of The Daily Show for several months, which paved the way for Oliver to have his own show on HBO. And how did Stewart find Oliver? Fellow Englishman Ricky Gervais apparently recommended Oliver to Stewart, although Oliver did not know Gervais. This isn’t to discount Oliver’s accomplishments. It’s only to point out that when a person becomes successful, it’s almost always due in part to the help of others. There is something obnoxiously hypocritical about Oliver insinuating that because Trump received a ton of help from his father that Trump himself somehow isn’t successful, or doesn’t deserve credit for his own success. History is littered with children who failed to live up to, let alone exceed, the success of their parents. Trump was born into success but became much more successful by several orders of magnitude.

John Oliver Reason #2: “…but he’s also lost a huge amount. I will just let his own daughter describe the state of his finances at one point in his life. [Ivanka clip]”

I suspect Oliver thought he had a “gotcha” moment with this obscure Ivanka clip. But Trump loves this story. He wrote a similar version of it in his book The Art of the Comeback.

Trump says that his lowest point came in the 1990s. He “owed billions of dollars and many people thought [he] was finished.” As “the economy fell out from under him” Trump lost “the Plaza, the yacht, and the airline, and the casinos filed for bankruptcy—but he himself didn’t.” Trump writes, “I figured I’d sell off a few assets and suffer a small hit to my ego in order to keep my 18,000 employees and kept afloat the thousands of family firms and suppliers that were dependent on the Trump Organization for work. After all, these people would have found it much tougher to recover. I wouldn’t have been able to look in the mirror if I’d let them down.”

“What saved him is that those bankers believed he was worth more to them above water than under it. He fought to buy time until the real estate market could rebound. By 1995, with some but not all of his debt wiped out and a pair of big projects that would use his name under way, limousine mogul Bill Fugazy handed him a boomerang encased in glass at a lunch marking his comeback.”

Now, he’s listed in the Guinness Book of World Records for having the biggest financial turnaround in history.

The fact that he was billions in debt, and 25 years later he has a net worth of at least $4.5 billion, is perhaps the single biggest symbol of his success. It also understandably speaks volumes to people looking for a leader capable of alleviating the U.S.’s $19 trillion debt.

John Oliver Reason #3: “His campaign claims his current with is in excess of $10 billion. But others have disputed that claim. In fact a book once suggested that Trump might be worth between $150 million to $250 million. Which Trump protested by suing the writer for $5 billion. And you should note for the record Trump lost that lawsuit twice.”

A New Jersey judge ruled that Trump’s $5 billion lawsuit could proceed because, according to Trump’s lawyer, there were “enough facts to establish reckless disregard for the truth in the statements about Donald Trump’s worth.” That’s partially because Forbes estimated Trump’s net worth in 2005, when the book was published, to be $2.7 billion.

Of course, Trump ultimately lost the case. “The judge did not address how much Trump is actually worth when she gave her ruling from the bench.” Only that “O’Brien…was not acting maliciously.” Because Trump is a public figure, he must prove that someone made defamatory statements about him while knowing that they were false. That requires proving what O’Brien’s state of mind was, which would be very difficult to do. Only a handful of cases over the last decades have found actual malice.

Trump said that he brought the case in part because he wanted to strongly and publicly assert the falsity of O’Brien’s claim. After all, O’Brien was off by more than 1000%, per Forbes. That Trump’s case faltered didn’t verify O’Brien’s claims. On the contrary, it made a public spectacle of their sharp contrast with what most others thought Trump was worth. It faltered because of the nearly insurmountable legal threshold of proving actual malice.

John Oliver Reason #4: During the deposition for the lawsuit, his estimation of his net worth was based his own feelings. Trump quote: ‘feelings, even my own feelings…and that can change rapidly from day to day.’ Think about that: he claims that his net worth changes depending upon his mood. Which makes absolutely no sense. Interestingly, a significant portion of his self-valuation is intangible. He values his own name at $3 billion. And I’m not saying a name can’t have value. $3 billion seems a bit high.”

Actually, it makes sense. In that deposition, he said “My net worth fluctuates, and it goes up and down with markets and with attitudes and with feelings, even my own feelings, but I try.”

Trump was being asked about how he values his brand, which has an influence on how much his properties are worth, which in turn has an influence on his net worth. His answer rightly pointed out the three factors that determine the value of his brand, two of which are directly affected by mood and feelings: his own valuation, others’ valuation, and the price that the market ultimately reaches when a deal is made.

If this doesn’t strike you as self-evidently true, consider that Trump’s answer is consistent with 2013 Nobel Prize Winner Robert Shiller’s assessment on valuation. Shiller writes that animal spirits—emotional drives—are an important part of economic decision making.

John Oliver Reason #5: “While Trump has said if I put my name on something, you know it’s gonna be good. Over the years, his name has been on some things that have arguably been very ungood. Including Trump shuttle (which no longer exists), Trump vodka (which was discontinued), Trump magazine (which folded), Trump world magazine (which also folded), Trump University (over which he’s being sued), and of course the travel booking site GoTrump.com. [And Trump Steaks.] And sure, every business executive is bound to have a few missteps, but Trump’s lack of sound financial instincts is perhaps best exemplified by the business that he put his name on back in 2006, just before the entire housing market collapsed. Trump: ‘I think it’s a great time to start a mortgage company, it’s Trump Mortgage.’ Starting a mortgage company in 2006 was one of the worst decisions you could make.”

According to his Financial Disclosure Report, Trump currently holds a position in over 515 organizations. He is President of 439. And he also is the Director, Chairman, Vice President, Treasurer, Secretary, and/or Member of many others. Given that 80% of businesses fail within the first 18 months, the fact that Trump has had a dozen or so business ventures fail illustrates that he’s had an incredibly successful track record.

Though Oliver wisely avoided claiming that “If Trump had invested his net worth into the stock market, he’d be richer today,” others, like Marco Rubio have asserted this. Let’s very quickly dismantle that claim, too.

This argument starts with the observation that Trump inherited $40 million in 1974. Of course, he didn’t. He took over his father’s company, which was valued at about $200 million. A reporter then estimated that his share of the empire would’ve been $40 million.

The argument goes that if he had cashed in that $40 million and invested it in the S&P 500, reinvesting all dividends and spending no money along the way, he’d have $2.3 billion. Given that Forbes values his net worth at $4.5 billion, and Bloomberg values his net worth at $2.9 billion, in both cases he outperformed the stock market. That is no small feat! Marketwatch points out that “year after year, decade after decade, neither individual nor professional investors can outperform broad market indexes consistently over long periods of time.”

But even if he had only tied or even underperformed the stock market—which he didn’t—what about the value of actually living your life, taking risks, developing projects, and creating things? All things equal, wouldn’t you rather have $3 billion and have spent your life investing in your dreams?

The fact that Trump invested his wealth into business ventures is important. Matt Levine writes, “Dopes like me can grow our wealth by investing indiscriminately in all the companies in the index, but we can only do that because other people—many of them with Wharton degrees and inherited wealth—made the positive, risky decisions to build those companies. If everybody indexed, nothing would get built. And that’s worth something too.”

John Oliver Reason #6: “You might say never mind side businesses, he really is a builder. But a building with TRUMP written on it is not necessarily a building owned by him. He may have just licensed his name to them, something he claims is actually better than ownership. Trump: ‘…better than ownership…You don’t put up money. You don’t put up anything.’ Spoken like a true builder.”

Spoken like a true builder, indeed. Steve Cuozzo writes in the New York Post, “Long before Trump stamped his name in gold on buildings around the world and joined the race for the White House, he was New York’s most important and bravest real estate developer.”

Here are a few of the projects Trump has, himself, built. The first seven towers of Riverside South in Manhattan, New York. Trump World Tower at 845 United Nations Plaza, New York. Trump Tower at 56th street, New York. The Grand Hyatt Hotel in midtown Manhattan, New York. Trump International Hotel and Tower in downtown Chicago. Trump Hotel at Fashion Show Drive in Las Vegas.

Indeed, Trump has also licensed his name to a variety of projects, including Trump Towers in Istanbul, Trump Ocean Club in Panama, and Trump International Hotel and Tower in Toronto.

Not to mention the various properties Trump has purchased and restored, including Mar-a-lago in Florida and Trump Turnberry in Scotland.

John Oliver Reason #7: “He was never the builder for [Trump Ocean Resort, Baja Mexico] which was later abandoned, leaving would-be condo buyers like William Flint, who lost $168k, feeling understandably betrayed. Flint: ‘Donald Trump was an expert in these types of projects, so we thought.’ Not only did investors in that property sue Donald Trump, they also did in Donald Trump Tampa, another project that never got off the ground. In both cases, Trump characteristically deflected blame onto the developers. And you would think, those investors would be facing an impossible legal battle, given Trump’s tough talk. [Trump: ‘You know what happens, if you settle suits, you get sued more…I don’t settle anything, I don’t settle.’] Guess what? He settled both those cases.”

The Trump Ocean Resort in Baja Mexico was a 2006 collaboration between Trump and its developer, Irongate. Trump had successfully collaborated with Irongate previously on the Trump International Hotel and Tower in Honolulu. Trump licensed his name to the Baja Mexico project, endorsed it, and heavily promoted it. The U.S. housing market collapsed in 2007 and the area was hammered by Mexico’s drug-fueled violence. Irongate ran out of money and the project terminated. Other projects in the area suffered similar fates.

Investors said that they put down payments on the property because they were given the impression that Trump was “more involved in the project” than he actually was.

Irongate settled, paying $7.25 million. Trump settled, too, but didn’t say for how much.

The Trump Tampa case went similarly. It started in 2005, with Trump licensing his name to the project developer Simdag. The project would eventually “become a victim of massive hype, inadequate funding and a nasty recession.” Trump settled.

There is one other similar case concerning the licensing of Trump’s name for a development in Ft Lauderdale. It, too, collapsed in the midst of the financial crisis, and Trump was sued for misleading investors into believing that he was responsible for the development. Except this time, rather than settle, Trump took the case to trial. “He argued that he was never the developer of the project, which in the end was done in by the financial crisis.” And the jury decided in his favor.

The final word on all 3 cases is that everyone came out looking bad. There is reason to believe that Trump was less than explicit in revealing that he was only licensing his brand, not overseeing the development. The fact that Trump was only a licensor was buried in the contracts. Some of the investors were candid about this, admitting that they were anxious to invest, and didn’t read the sales agreement closely. Others were upset, observing that realistically Trump knew that people had invested in the Trump name, and that he should make sure that the investors got their money back by dipping into his own pockets. Trump pins the failure of the development on the developers and the collapse of the market. These things are undeniably true. What is less obvious is whether Trump had a legal and moral duty to be more explicit about his role as only a licensor, and not the developer.

Given all the evidence, to try and claim Trump is unsuccessful, or even that he isn’t deserving of credit for his success, is simply disingenuous.

Given everything Oliver has laid out, there is very little reason to think that Trump isn’t basically honest, strong, and successful.

***

Theme 4: Trump’s Policies

John Oliver Critique #1: “A candidate for president needs a coherent set of policies. No matter what you think of Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, at least you basically know where they stand. But Trump’s opinions have been wildly inconsistent. He’s been pro-choice and pro-life. For and against assault weapon bans. In favor of both bringing in Syrian refugees and deporting them out of the country.”

To start, I think the word Oliver meant to use here was “consistent” rather than “coherent,” since his critique is that Trump’s positions have changed, not that they are contradictory when held as a unified whole. That is a separate critique that some have leveled at Trump, also, but Oliver’s analysis is based on analyzing Trump’s consistency.

The idea that Trump’s policies aren’t coherent comes from the criticism that Trump has no “coherent political philosophy.” The word “coherent” is used to mean “ideologically consistent,” so the critique that Oliver thought he was tapping into is actually saying that Trump has a platform of views that are not ideologically conservative nor liberal. Oliver never comments on whether Trump’s views are uniformly liberal or conservative. Nor is it necessarily a bad thing if someone holds a mix of liberal and conservative views. But that nuance was missing from Oliver’s segment.

Assuming Oliver meant “consistent” rather than “coherent,” it’s truly remarkable that he holds up Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz as paragons of “consistency.” They certainly are not.

There is no doubt that Trump has revised his views on abortion, gun control, and Syrian refugees. Also on Hillary Clinton, his party affiliation, and the legalization of drugs.

But some say that Cruz has revised many of his views, too. LibertyConservatives.com has provided a list of Cruz’s 10 biggest flip flops. These are just on libertarian issues. The biggest flip flop haunting Cruz’s campaign is whether or not he intended to support or defeat the Gang of Eight Bill.

Rubio is also accused of flip flopping on national security spending, entering the Iraq war, and most famously, signing on to the Gang of Eight Bill, which provided for a pathway to citizenship for millions of illegal immigrants, after he promised not to do exactly that when he was campaigning for the senate.

And, of course, Hillary Clinton—who has received $591,529 in campaign contributions from Time Warner, the owner of HBO, which broadcast John Oliver’s segment on Trump—has changed her positions on same sex-marriage, the Second Amendment, her Iraq War vote, and illegal immigration reform.

All politicians revise their views. So do voters. But the most disturbing part of Oliver’s claim here is the flat out lie that we just don’t know where Trump stands. Yes, we do. And Oliver would, too, if, when he was browsing Trump’s website, snapping screen shots of his “Donate” buttons, he took half a second to drag his mouse over the “Positions” tab. Moreover, there is an abundance of reports that have chronicled his positions. But to know Trump’s hallmark positions, all you really need to do is have a pulse and even a passing interest in U.S. politics. Trump’s positions on making Mexico “pay for the wall,” putting a temporary halt to Muslim Immigration, and his desires to take jobs back from China and other countries by the use of tariffs on foreign goods, are plain as day if you’ve ever even casually listened to him give an interview. And he’s got plenty more positions, clearly laid out on his website and in his speeches.

John Oliver Critique #2: “And that inconsistency can be troubling. Just this morning, for instance, he was asked about the fact that David Duke, former grand wizard of the KKK, had told supporters to vote for him, and this was his answer. Trump: ‘Well just so you understand, I don’t know anything about David Duke. I don’t know anything about what you’re even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. Honestly, I don’t know David Duke. I don’t believe I’ve ever met him. I’m pretty sure I didn’t meet him. And I just don’t know anything about him.’ Really? That’s your best answer there? Because you definitely know who he is. Party because you called him a bigot and a racist in the past. But that’s not even the f*#king point. The point is, with an answer like that, you are either racist or you are pretending to be, and at some point, there is no difference there. And sure, he disavowed David Duke later on in the day, but the scary thing is, we have no way of knowing which of his inconsistent views he will hold in office.”

It’s true that Trump disavowed Duke in 2000. Here’s a list of the dates on which he has disavowed or otherwise condemned Duke: November 19, 1991, February 14, 2000, August 26, 2015, February 26, 2016, February 28, 2016, February 29, 2016, and March 1, 2016.

Trump was obviously ambiguous in his answer to Jake Tapper, notwithstanding his other various disavowals of Duke. Some have speculated that Trump was trying to pander to white supremacist voters. Shortly following the interview with Tapper, Trump took to Twitter to clarify his condemnation. Trump says he had a bad earpiece, and feared being baited into condemning groups that he knew nothing about. That’s reasonable. But he also said he “doesn’t know anything about David Duke” which is untrue.

The charitable interpretation of this statement is that Trump misspoke. The less charitable interpretation is that he was pandering to white supremacists. The whole of the evidence falls on the side of Trump having a 25 year record of disavowing David Duke, and many recent statements disavowing David Duke, except for this interview, in which he declined to comment on Duke one way or the other.

John Oliver Critique #3: “Will he stand by his claim that vaccines are linked to autism? Or his claim that Mexico is sending us rapists? Oh and what about that plan he had to defeat Isis? [Trump on FNC: ‘We’re fighting a very politically correct war against Isis…With the terrorists, you have to take out their families. When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don’t kid yourself. But when they say they don’t care about their lives, you have to take out their families.’] That is the front runner for the Republican nomination advocating a war crime.”

Trump has espoused these three positions, but not exactly as Oliver describes them.

(1) Trump said he is “totally in favor of vaccines” but “wants smaller doses over longer periods of time.” He gave an anecdote in which he inferred that a vaccine the child received caused the child to become very sick, which in turn caused the child to become autistic.

There were two doctors on stage with Trump when he made those comments. Ben Carson and Rand Paul. Carson said there is “extremely well-documented proof that there is no autism associated with vaccinations, but it is true that we are probably giving way too many in too short a period of time.” Paul said “I’m all for vaccines…I’m also a little concerned about how they’re bunched up.”

(2) Trump said in 2011 that he theorizes that the Mexican government is sending its criminal citizens to the U.S. The word “sending” might be a tad strong, since there is no evidence available that the Mexican government is patting Mexican criminals on the back and shoving them across the border. But there is the possibility that something more indirect is happening that leads to Mexican criminals being incentivized to come to the US. That theory is this. The combination of (A) the U.S.’s generosity towards illegal immigrants, by providing a litany of public benefits and refusing to prosecute illegal immigrants in sanctuary cities, and (B) the Mexican government’s harsher criminal justice system and Mexico’s lower quality of life, amounts to (C) an incentive for Mexicans, including Mexican criminals, to come to the U.S. rather than stay in Mexico.

Trump said in his campaign announcement speech that “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” And indeed, some of the illegal immigrants coming from Mexico are rapists. The federal government does not publicize how many crimes illegal immigrants commit. But Immigration Customs Enforcement said that in 2013 and 2014 alone, ICE released more than 66,000 illegal immigrants who had over 166,000 convictions, including 11,000 rapes.

(3) Trump said that the U.S. should take out the family members of Isis terrorists because the family members “know what’s going on.” That caveat—that Isis terrorists’ family members are accessories after the fact—means that they are war criminals. Trump’s claim is a matter for ethical debate: Is it acceptable to kill accessories to terrorism in order to combat terrorism and potentially save American lives?

We should encourage Oliver and anyone else to challenge these policy positions. Intellectual integrity requires us to fully flesh them out and understand the reasoning behind them, evaluate them, and then compare them against the strongest competing positions. So long as this minimal threshold of rational analysis is enacted, democracy has been dutifully served.

***

CONCLUSION

Most of Oliver’s facts don’t check out, or paint a very incomplete, one-sided picture. There is no way, given everything Oliver presented, that his reasons support the conclusion that Trump is dishonest, weak, or unsuccessful. This isn’t to say that Trump is an angel. It’s to say that Oliver pieced together a sloppy and disingenuous hit piece on Trump that is a disservice to the goals of Oliver’s show.

In Oliver’s defense, the media, which he unavoidably had to cite to make his case, is also disingenuous. Oliver’s critique is the fruit of a poisonous tree. But he should have known that at the start, and he should have sought a more balanced array of sources. The media isn’t all bad. It’s just that most of it is bad. At the same time, it wasn’t hard for me to dig up competing sources, using Google and the Donald Trump subreddit, and carefully rebut virtually every claim Oliver made with facts.

But let’s be completely honest with ourselves. It never mattered whether the conclusion that Oliver built up to—that Donald Trump, the honest, strong, successful person is a myth, and that Donald Drumpf, the dishonest, weak, unsuccessful person is the truth—was based in fact or not. All that mattered was that the liars in the media provided enough “source material” to construct a character assassination. Donald Trump terrifies John Oliver and many of the people that like his show. Oliver both seized the opportunity to try and damage Trump’s image and exploited his audience’s fear of a Trump presidency.

And that is pretty understandable, at least from the perspective of moral consequentialism. Oliver doesn’t want Trump to become president. If he thinks he can play a role in preventing Trump from becoming president by putting together a hit-piece like this, why wouldn’t he?

This same logic applies to politics in general. The goal is to get elected. Telling the truth only figures into the equation if voters care about the truth. I think a lot of people do care about the truth. I think, deep down, John Oliver cares about it, too. We all need reminders every once in a while.

In light of everything we’ve gone over, take a listen to Oliver’s conclusion. Set aside the rhetoric and just concentrate on the argument he’s making. Then, I’ll leave you to make up your own mind.

John Oliver Conclusion: “If you are thinking of voting for Donald Trump, the charismatic guy promising to Make America Great Again, stop to take a moment and imagine how you would feel if you just met a guy named Donald Drumpf. A litigious serial liar with a string of broken business ventures and the support of a former Klan leader who he can’t decide whether or not to condemn. Would you think that he would make a good president, or is the spell now somewhat broken?”

http://causesandfx.wordpress.com/2016/03/07/the-definitive-rebuttal-to-john-olivers-hit-piece-on-trump/
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 9, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
It appears some of the partisans here have their rote objections and rhetoric tuned in to refuting the Republican Party line but when someone espouses a call for something other than the continued march of big government and reduced individual liberty, you get all flustered. Then claim troll which seems to be the standard ST replacement for "I don't have an answer, so I'll just call you a troll and feel better about myself"

That because big government and reduced individual liberty is a paranoid fantasy straw man.

Only the 5% or less that compromise the true far left and Very few on supertopo wants bigger govt or less actual Liberty. Most in the center and left are probably for what a lot of people would consider common sense regulations like universal background checks on guns but it's mostly the far left that wants to take all guns away.

So when you argue against strawmen you will get called out as a troll. Even if you aren't aware that you are doing it. That's not people without an answer to a reasonable argument that's the expected reaction to a weak argument not worth responding to because the other person isn't interested in listening and learning they just want to confirm their biased ideas.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 9, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
a study at Harvard showed that 62% of bankruptcies were due to medical expenses.

If that is true it rather quaintly begs the question

"why the hell are you buying a house if you don't have medical insurance?"

It shows that stoopid Americans value a place to put their big screen TV
more than their physical AND financial health. Also, a LOT of those that
lost houses had no clue what ARM meant in their mortgage. If you have
the financial education level of a fifth grader

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU BUYING A HOUSE?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 9, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
We need to be respected around the globe and make deals from a place of strength.

It was EXACTLY this kind of dickless, draft dodger, chickhawk bullshit that got us eyeball deep in the Mideast for the foreseeable future and basically invested six trillion dollars into strengthening China and Iran who, along with Russia more recently, have been the main beneficiaries of that investment in stupidity.

Stupid politicians leave us and our great friends in Israel less safe.

Stupid politicians don't lean on our 51st state to resolve the Israeli/Palestinian conflict at the cost of trillions of our dollars and thousands of our lives. We fork over three billion a year in subsidies which basically pays for the settlement and apartheid programs and get flipped the bird at every turn to boot along with zero cooperation - f*#k the Israelis.

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 9, 2016 - 04:01pm PT
It's telling Reilly that you go straight to the problem must be stupid people are buying luxury items instead of being responsible.

A quick look at the study shows: "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study." and "They concluded that 62.1 percent of the bankruptcies were medically related because the individuals either had more than $5,000 (or 10 percent of their pretax income) in medical bills, mortgaged their home to pay for medical bills, or lost significant income due to an illness. On average, medically bankrupt families had $17,943 in out-of-pocket expenses, including $26,971 for those who lacked insurance and $17,749 who had insurance at some point.

Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically-related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say."

I would guess that Obamacare would help the issue since people with preexisting conditions can now get insurance, and people get subsidies to help them afford insurance if they become unemployed.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 9, 2016 - 04:28pm PT
@Reilly

"why the hell are you buying a house if you don't have medical insurance?"

What does one have to do with the other? There is no mention in my post that home owners are more likely to declare bankruptcy than non-homeowners. I am talking about bankruptcy, not losing a house; you can live in an apartment and go bankrupt.

Bankruptcy is totally different than defaulting on a mortgage. Catastrophic medical expenses, whether from lack of medical insurance, poor medical insurance, exceeding (before Obamacare) a lifetime medical limit because of treatment, and in fact the inability to even get medical insurance because of a pre-existing condition (again, pre-Obamacare), lose of employment because of illness, etc, are all reasons for medical bankruptcy.

In case you don't know, people have sold everything they have, including their homes, to pay for medical treatment and this, unfortunately, includes older retired persons. It's pathetic that in our rich country people are exposed to these terrible financial situations and choices because of illness. Pretty much everybody else in the developed world knows this. Break your leg in New Zealand and you won't even see a bill. The medical situation in this country is despicable. We pay more than twice as much per capita for medical care as any other country, without a better outcome. Our drug prices are ridiculous; $1000/pill for a hepatitis cure while the rest of the world is paying $10? No negotiation by Medicare to get bulk drug pricing? Real nice.

The guy that owns the winery where I work is pretty much an eastern Washington redneck Tea Party guy who thinks there are too many moochers, but when it came time for a quadruple bypass and treatment for congestive heart failure the only thing he complained about was that he had to pay $600 for some drugs. HE'S not a moocher when he uses Medicare, but in that weird Republican mindset, he has gotten his and the rest of us be damned.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 9, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
buying too much house isn't the main reason for personal bankruptcy

I have heard that - I believe on NPR a few weeks ago. My point wasn't about home ownership itself. It was that when the housing market crashed and people who had fallen for the subprime scam were losing their homes and/or going bankrupt trying to hold onto them, many people on THIS website railed on at how stupid the people were, thinking they could DARE afford the house. And I feel like it is THOSE people who would view Trump's tendency toward bankruptcy as a cash flow management tool to be acceptable.

I apologize if my writing wasn't clear.


Pud - As above, the information about personal bankruptcy wasn't a part of my post, and had no relevance to the point I was making.

"why the hell are you buying a house if you don't have medical insurance?"

OMG - Do you people have any reading comprehension and analytical skills whatsoever?????


How do you make the assumption that "people who went bankrupt due to medical costs also had a mortgage?

And, have you forgotten that part of the problem in our insurance system was that the insurers were taking the premiums and then refusing to pay out? THAT was what was causing people to be pushed into bankruptcy.


zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 9, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
Speaking of ball-cupppng

Chupar Trump

Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Mar 9, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
There's another very common cause of bankruptcy: Divorce.

As one of my lawyer-climbing partners explained it, that a marriage is a gold mine. When divorce comes along the wife usually gets all the gold, and the husband gets the shaft... Hence, the male partner usually does bankruptcy about the house, the cars, etc.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
SPRINGTIME FOR PUNDITS

March 9, 2016
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2016-03-09.html

If you're into self-dramatization, Donald Trump’s candidacy is perfect for you.

Half of the Washington political class is vowing to vote for Hillary -- even Stalin! -- over Trump; psychologists (and massage therapists) report they are treating patients for "Trump anxiety"; lengthy thought-pieces on Trump have no room to mention his signature issue, immigration, but get prolix on George Wallace, Mussolini and Hitler. (Never Mao, Stalin or Lenin, curiously.)

You're going to have to act quickly if you hope to be among the first 200 princesses to feel the pea under 15 layers of mattresses.

To save you time, I will provide the prototype. Do not be surprised if the following turns up, word for word, under the byline of David Brooks, Stephen Hayes, Cokie Roberts, every single writer for Salon, Gawker, National Review, Commentary and The Huffington Post. And then, of course, Fareed Zakaria will steal it.


Watching the candidacy of Donald Trump, I am continually struck by his resemblance to a man who came to power in a far-off land nearly 85 years ago, a historical epic that I had naively hoped was well buried in the past.

Consider the following:

-- Adolf Hitler held gigantic rallies, where he inspired millions with rousing speeches. Donald Trump holds gigantic rallies, where he inspires millions with rousing speeches.


-- Adolf Hitler talked about making his country great again. Donald Trump talks about making his country great again.


-- Adolf Hitler promised military victories. Donald Trump promises military victories.


-- Adolf Hitler had a loyal and overweight henchman, Hermann Goering. Donald Trump has a loyal and overweight henchman, Chris Christie.


-- Adolf Hitler blamed a specific group of immigrants for all the nation's problems (Ed: Jews weren't immigrants -- Close enough!). Donald Trump blames a specific group of immigrants for all the nation's problems.


-- Adolf Hitler vowed to build a wall (Ed: Wait a minute -- when did Hitler talk about a wall? Shhhh! Nevermind!) Donald Trump vows to build a wall.


-- Adolf Hitler was a teetotaler. Donald Trump is a teetotaler.


-- Adolf Hitler had a hobby that he enjoyed very much (painting). Donald Trump has a hobby that he enjoys very much (golf).


-- Adolf Hitler had an opulent home in the city as well as a country home, "The Berghof" in Berchtesgaden. Donald Trump has an opulent home in the city as well as a country home, "Mar-a-Lago" in Palm Beach.


-- Adolf Hitler was involved with a woman from Central Europe, Eva Braun. Donald Trump is married to a woman from Central Europe, Melania Knauss.


-- Adolf Hitler had a pact with the Soviet Union from 1939 to 1941; Donald Trump said nice things about Russian president Vladimir Putin.


-- Adolf Hitler required all non-Jewish, German civilians to greet one another with a rigid right-arm salute, while exclaiming "Heil!" or "Heil Hitler!" Donald Trump has asked audiences to promise to vote for him by raising their hands, which is the PRECISELY same thing.


-- Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian; Donald Trump has never smoked.


-- Adolf Hitler forcibly annexed Czechoslovakia. Donald Trump tried to merge two casinos in Atlantic City.


-- Adolf Hitler invested hundreds of millions of dollars on German aviation to upgrade the Luftwaffe. Donald Trump has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in private jets.


-- Adolf Hitler never had any children, but if he had, they would probably have been blond. Both of Donald Trump's daughters are blond.


-- Adolf Hitler's favorite food was liver dumplings, a dish very similar to meatloaf. (Ed.: They're not remotely similar. No one knows that.) Donald Trump's favorite food is meatloaf.


-- Adolf Hitler had light hair and a moustache. Donald Trump has light hair and a moustache. (This has not been definitively established, but some who knew Trump in the 1970s recall that he had a moustache, albeit a fuller, longer one.)


-- One of Adolf Hitler's idols was World War I fighter pilot Manfred von Richthofen, also known as "the Red Baron." Donald Trump's son is named Barron. (It's spelled differently, but sounds the same.)


-- Adolf Hitler liked Eva Braun because she was very attractive; Donald Trump's wife, Melania, is very attractive.


-- Adolf Hitler vowed to exterminate entire races; Donald Trump has vowed to exterminate ALL Mexicans and Central Americans. (Mr. Trump has yet to call for this, but if he had, it would be an amazing parallel and speak very ill of his character.)


-- One of Adolf Hitler's favorite desserts, not his No. 1 favorite, but one he enjoyed several times a year, was chocolate ice cream. Donald Trump has talked about formerly liking Oreos. (Recently, he vowed never to eat Oreos again because Nabisco moved its factories to Mexico. This does not negate his previous position on the cookie.)


-- Adolf Hitler was known for erecting concentration camps – surrounded by walls to keep people out, particularly Mexicans. (Ed: That's not true.) Donald Trump wants to build a wall.


-- Allowing Adolf Hitler to come to power was a horrible mistake for an entire nation; allowing Donald Trump to come to power will be a horrible mistake for an entire nation.


In conclusion, [dramatic music plays] I have covered American politics for 30 years. For the first time in my life I am afraid for my country. Very afraid. Very, very afraid. Very, very, very afraid.


COPYRIGHT 2016 ANN COULTER
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
And the same Anne Coulter from a couple weeks ago!

Ann Coulter: God Raised Up Trump To Save Us From 1,000 Years Of Darkness

Submitted by Brian Tashman on Wednesday, 1/13/2016 1:45 pm

on “The Eric Metaxas Show,” Ann Coulter repeated her claim that God is using Donald Trump to save the U.S. — and all of civilization — from destruction. Coulter started off the interview by defending herself from charges that she’s “divisive,” noting that Jesus Christ was divisive as well. “Yeah, I’m ‘divisive’ because I say things I believe, generally, so does Jesus, and liberals yell at me, that makes me ‘divisive.’ It’s the hecklers’ veto,” she said. She went on to liken the media’s treatment of her to how it covers Donald Trump, whom she believes will save the U.S. and, therefore, the whole world. “We are talking about the future of not only of America but of the last genuinely Christian country on earth and thus the world,” she said. “If we lose America, it is lights out for the entire world for a thousand years.”

Coulter explained that God has a role in lifting up Trump’s candidacy: “It is like the fall of Rome but, thank God, and I am not using the Lord’s name in vain, I mean that absolutely literally, thank God for raising up Donald Trump and giving us a chance to save the country.”
- See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ann-coulter-god-raised-trump-save-us-1000-years-darkness#sthash.OzR9pPPt.dpuf

This is the GOP of today
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
Craig Fry! OMG!

I really appreciate you hate "The Donald", but even in my wurst (sic)nightmares: I never dreamed you would quote Ann Coulter at length, unless you were about to rip on her for being the nastiest, lying, conservative, crazed, Republican bitch, that gets published.

Interesting to see her comparing Trump with Hitler, since I always thought of her as a closet Hitler fan.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
I wasn't finished
put 2 and 2 together

It's just too crazy for words

She loved her Hitler in January, she claims then that God has saved us with The Donald
I guess something soured between them, maybe he dissed her looks


I don't hate The Donald, I just can't see why anyone would vote for him to be POTUS
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
This brings me to Miss Coulter's teen tramp wardrobe. Miss Coulter showed up to the Today show this week wearing a black cocktail dress three sizes too small. At seven in the morning, mind you. No woman in New York wears a little black dress that early in the day unless she is burying someone dead, or looks like someone dead, as she makes a Whore of Babylon predawn retreat from the previous night's licentious debauchery. This may account for why Matt Lauer told me that the poor thing smelled like an ashtray.

But it wasn't the color of the dress that was so telling. No, it was the "Look! I got myself one of those Brazilian waxes!" length that spoke more to a Jackie Stallone determination to hang on to youth with knuckles no longer white but bleeding. Indeed, it seems that Miss Coulter's whole sense of self comes from thinking she is a "hot young babe" who drives, presumably myopic, men wild with a sexual desire so ardent they no longer hear the nonsense she is saying. Goodness me, who would have ever guessed that the Achilles heel for most Republican men would be the sight of pre-operative transsexuals in dresses made for someone 20 years younger?
http://www.bettybowers.com/coulter.html
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
Please tell us more about this liberal assault on America

Should we worry about it or the Nazi you now fear that will take over your party?
Which is worse Anne?
couchmaster

climber
Mar 9, 2016 - 07:59pm PT


Poor reading skills again Craig. Satire is the word for what she pitched out there. She's ripping the establishment political class. Shall I talk slower? It's not Onion funny, in fact not funny at all I'd say, but really dude, buy a clue. She's making a point.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 9, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
Yes
please talk slower

do I care what she is selling other than GOP BS?
couchmaster

climber
Mar 9, 2016 - 08:02pm PT


READ ...THE ...WHOLE ...THING ...AGAIN!! ESPECIALLY... THE ...START ...OF ...IT....Shes saying that the political class and establishment types will soon be saying what you posted about Trump.

GOOD LUCK.....
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 9, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
Are You saying that she is a willing partner of the Nazi Party along with The Donald?

And all these things that Hitler did were awesome.
Bring em on... drill baby drill...

stupid political class, what do they know?
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 9, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
Craig! Sorry to jump to conclusions on your first Ann Colter post!

Thank you for ripping on that Nazi-bitch.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 9, 2016 - 08:20pm PT
I didn't post anything about Trump in association to Anne
I posted what Anne Coulter posts about Trump
word for word

I'm just reading what she has to say,
everyone will have a different opinion on what her words mean
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 9, 2016 - 09:44pm PT
+1 jim
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 9, 2016 - 10:48pm PT
OMG - Do you people have any reading comprehension and analytical skills whatsoever?????

Happie, you might want to check yer reading skills. We were talking about
people losing their homes and bankruptcy. And if you people didn't love to
pull phrases from a whole argument, while excoriating others for their
reading comprehension, you might have understood that I was excoriating
people for having messed up priorities, in addition to just being plain
stoopid for buying houses they couldn't afford, not understanding what an
ARM was, and being too poor a credit risk to be able to get mortgage
insurance. Oh, I almost forgot to hoist them on their ultimate petard of
thinking those crazy prices would get even crazier and that they'd be RICH!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 05:31am PT
Jim posted
Donald is exploiting a hurt that doesn't exist. There is no decadent monarchy up for grabs in a constitutional democracy. The comparison between Hitler and Trump is a f*#king laugh.


I find the comparisons between Hitler and Trump to be hyperbolic (because of the genocide, remove the genocide and it becomes much less objectionable) but to completely dismiss the idea that Trump is appealing to a populist sense of outrage is absurd. The wealth gap between the "decadent monarchy" and the average German voter is probably just as big as that of America's elite and the average Trump voter. Add on to that the perceived loss of privilege that is the backlash to "political correctness" and you have yourself the bedrock of real populism. Trump's message is clear: you are being ripped off, it is someone else's fault, I will make sure you have someone to blame, I will fix everything through an authoritarian leadership style and the world will bend their knee to American power. The comparisons to the rise of populist dictators is striking. Trump is exactly why the Founding Fathers created both the Senate and the Electoral College.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:11am PT
As a middle class TAX person will be nice to see some political clown get to work vs taking vacations unlike OBUMA.. Trump will probably work everday he's in office..
Doubt you will see him take a day off.

Im thinking about heading over to see the first lady Nancy if i do then ill take pics.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:14am PT
pyro posted
As a middle class TAX person will be nice to see some political clown get to work vs taking vacations unlike OBUMA.. Trump will probably work everday he's in office..

Do you only consume propaganda?

http://www.factcheck.org/2014/08/presidential-vacations/

When we emailed Knoller on Aug. 26, Obama was up to 140 days by his count. Bush’s total for his two terms in office is 533 days, which includes 490 at the ranch and the rest at Kennebunkport. For comparison’s sake, President Bill Clinton’s total is 174 days, and Reagan hit 390 (349 at his ranch and 41 in Palm Springs), according to Knoller.

Adding in Camp David visits would bring Obama’s total to date to 223 (that’s 83 days at Camp David) and Bush’s total for his entire time in office to 1,024 (491 days at the presidential retreat). Note that Obama still has more than two years in office to narrow the gap.

Deciding how to count these “vacation” days can create some confusion. CNN recently listed a count of 879 days for Bush and 150 for Obama, numbers that came from a Washington Post “Outlook” piece on “Five myths on presidential vacations.” (Myth No. 1: “Presidents get vacations.”) The 879 figure, it turns out, is from March 3, 2008, at which point Bush had spent that many days at the ranch and Camp David (but it doesn’t include days in Kennebunkport). The numbers are in a 2008 Washington Post piece and attributed to Knoller.

If readers want to make an apples-to-apples comparison, the best solution is to use Knoller’s figures as of August 8, cited above: Bush, 407; Obama, 125. But the numbers say more about how many days the presidents spent away from the White House than they do about how much time the presidents spent not working.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:17am PT
Hddj u make no sense..
Get to WORK
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:18am PT
Facts are hard. Numbers are hard. Sorry that it's not in facebook image macro form.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:28am PT
Hitler slept in on D-day and lost WW ll...
dirtbag

climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:29am PT
I always thought criticisms about presidential vacations were silly. I never begrudge any president his days off. It's an extremely demanding job, with long hours and incredible amounts of stress. Even their vacations aren't ever work free vacations as we think of them. They should rest up as needed, and replenish their minds, bodies and spirits for all the grueling tasks they face.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:33am PT
No President ever has a "day off."

Except maybe Bush on Day 1 of Katrina. He was definitely sleeping that day.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:35am PT
Nope, no weekends, either.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:47am PT
Its the whole scene man. If you guys aren't bothered by a crowd of Trump-lathered racist bullies roughing up a woman then you're f*#king stupid.

Any of you Trump apologists want to jump on this?
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:49am PT
With gas at $1.75 here and February overseas military deaths at zero, it is unreasonable. By all measures, our Presidents approval should be 80% overall, at least.

That said, my Muslim acquaintances, say that if his Father is Muslim, Muslim he must be. NTTTAWWT. Don't take my word for it, ask the Muslims you know, if this is so.

I watched a compendium this am, of violence with demonstrators and attendees at Trump rallies. I think the RNC, will be even wilder than Chicago 1968 or NYC 2004.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:50am PT
Gary yestarday was BURRITO WEDNESDAY..
celebrating the building of TRUMPS 55ft WALL..
raider nation is saif to start a war with America
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:52am PT
Gary yestarday was BURRITO WEDNESDAY..
celebrating the building of TRUMPS 55ft WALL..
raider nation is saif to start a war with America

ok
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 10, 2016 - 07:01am PT
Still try'n to figure out who raider nation is HDDJ?
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 07:23am PT
ANYBODY SEEN A NUMBER INDICATING HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE ACTUALLY VOTED FOR TRUMP SO FAR?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 07:27am PT
Republican turnout so far is 17% of eligible voters so if you figure out how many eligible Republican voters there are in the states that have voted then do then math.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 10, 2016 - 07:33am PT
I like Hillary's line from last night's debate:

You don’t make America great by getting rid of everything that made America great.

People who think they are being "patriotic" by supporting Trump are actually just the opposite.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 07:41am PT
There is a place for it but it's just so overused by the right that it's basically meaningless. Patriotism is selflessness in pursuit of the best interests of the country. Selflessness is not really the current conservative message.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 10, 2016 - 07:48am PT
A foreigner's take on trump.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/dalai-lama-donald-trump-37525327?nwltr=abcnp_fb
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 07:53am PT
Dingus posted
Its over-used by anyone short of combat experience, imo. If someone claims patriotism and I find out they are Neverserved? I tune them out with extreme prejudice.

Sorry, but serving in the military is not the only way to demonstrate patriotism.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 10, 2016 - 07:57am PT
Its over-used by anyone short of combat experience, imo. If someone claims patriotism and I find out they are Neverserved? I tune them out with extreme prejudice.

David Harris went to jail rather than submit to the Vietnam draft. I consider him a patriot.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 08:07am PT
By your definition there have been nearly 0 women patriots in American history.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 08:15am PT
ANYBODY SEEN A NUMBER INDICATING HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE ACTUALLY VOTED FOR TRUMP SO FAR?
Republican turnout so far is 17% of eligible voters so if you figure out how many eligible Republican voters there are in the states that have voted then do then math.

Counting them up could be done. I'll wait for some news guy to do it.

Trump got 481,657 in Michigan

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/michigan
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 10, 2016 - 08:29am PT
"By your definition there have been nearly 0 women patriots in American history."


This sounds like combat to me:

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/kimcampbell.html

I'm sure she isn't the only one.

She was out looking for the enemy. That's her job. It's not like her supply convoy was ambushed, and she was returning rifle fire ( which is also pretty badass )
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 10, 2016 - 08:30am PT
Trump got 481,657 in Michigan

Interesting link. In fact, the number of Democratic voters, appears to be around the same as the Republicans. A detailed analysis of this, would probably be close to projecting the General. If the General was held now.

Another tidbit, Muslims voting for a Jew.


Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 10, 2016 - 08:37am PT
How'd Trump do in the Michigan Muslim communities?

Some towns in MI have more Muslims than San Bernardino has Hispanics.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 10, 2016 - 08:47am PT
Indeed, some of the old abandoned automobile towns, have been brought back to life by Muslims.

I should have posted the link. There are many more than one.

https://twitter.com/KhaledBeydoun/status/707357286381924352/photo/1
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 08:49am PT
Per patriotism.
We should have a national citizen's service. Serve in some self sacrificing capacity to earn the right to vote. Ask not, yada, yada.
Too much sense of entitlement in our pop culture now.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 10, 2016 - 09:15am PT
DMT wrote: Its over-used by anyone short of combat experience, imo. If someone claims patriotism and I find out they are Neverserved? I tune them out with extreme prejudice.

In the film you lifted the line from, "extreme prejudice" was code for killing the referred individual.

I'm not one for name-calling typically but, you're an idiot.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 10, 2016 - 09:55am PT
That's right. My definition of patriot is you have to fight.

But who, that's the question.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 10:13am PT

well, with a lifetime of spine problems and surgeries I was not fit to "serve"

therefore I cannot be viewed as "loving America" or believing that it is the "best"
-------substitute any number of "patriotic" cliches
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 10, 2016 - 10:30am PT
That's right. My definition of patriot is you have to fight.

But who, that's the question.


Must be The enemy du jour.

"We have always been at war with Eastasia"

The amount of wasted blood and resources since WWII fighting pointless Banker's wars is truly staggering.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 10, 2016 - 10:38am PT
The word Patriot is so misused now by these so called "Patriot Groups".

They hate the Government and Obama, how can they call themselves Patriots when they are the exact Opposite of one.

Rush Limbaugh and Hannity claim to be Yuge Patriots, what a crock of sh#t, they lie and turn people away from being Patriotic.

For me Patriotism would be paying your taxes w/o complaining!

That's what the Government wants from me, my tax money, so I patriotically give it to them
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 10, 2016 - 11:02am PT
So what's it take to be a patriot, ...

Darn good question. You say you have to fight, but does that mean you have to try to kill our "enemies?" How about fighting against something that you believe to be anti-patriotic, such as Republican congressmen who will not follow the constitution and vote on a Supreme Court Justice?

I think Gray had it right, fight whom.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 10, 2016 - 11:21am PT
The term patriot seems to have been kidnapped by people who think their personal liberties are more important than the common good. It used to be fighting to defend the common good. The common good requires people to put some of their personal desires behind what is good for the majority. This concept seem totally alien to Congress these days.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 10, 2016 - 11:26am PT
The patriot question is a good one.

I know for myself and the actions of "my" government in the past few decades that I'm not saluting a flag that represents that.

I think that's manifesting itself as some of the misguided self-proclaimed 'patriots' come forward these days with little direction and occupy empty buildings.

Once there's real pain and fear out there (i.e. the EBT system goes down), things will get very interesting very fast.

Tough call. Easier to go climbing.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 10, 2016 - 11:31am PT
Its over-used by anyone short of combat experience, imo. If someone claims patriotism and I find out they are Neverserved? I tune them out with extreme prejudice.

So much for the Peace Corps.

I note that you have put forth TWO different definitions of patriotism:

-those who have SERVED
-those who fought

So, is it sufficient to have worn the uniform, or is it necessary to evaluate the individual soldier's record to decide if they were sufficient to have been patriotic?

MANY serve who do not fight...... Essentially all between WWI and II, essentially all NOW, other than a very few.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 10, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
DMT, you are entitled to your opinion.

My definition is broader, that's all.

I don't think you need to fight, I think you need to serve, particularly if it involves personal sacrifice.

And I agree with others, that a violent act against the gov't or members of the gov't is a treasonous act.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 10, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
I said what I thought, k-man. What are your thoughts?

I like that you have a solid idea of what a patriot is, and that you stand by your guns on your belief.

I don't think that you have to raise arms to be a patriot (although that can certainly help you become one). Defending the constitution of your county, while risking significant loss (defined whatever way you want), is what I believe defines a patriot.

So, under my belief, Snowden is a patriot because he risked significant loss to blow the whistle on illegal activities being done by our Gov't, actions which undermined the rights of US citizens. (And yeah, I know this can be picked apart, the Bill of Rights isn't exactly part of our constitution.)

As suggested above, fighting a banker's war does not necessarily allow our constitution to thrive, and in some cases might do just the opposite. Getting thrown in jail for refusing to serve in an unjust war, I think that's just as patriotic as dropping an H-bomb on somebody's head.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 10, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
Yeah, things that make you go Hmmm.

Snowden had to run--he'd seen what happens to folks who rub the Gov't fur the wrong way. He threw away a pretty lavish lifestyle to do what he did.

Traitor or Patriot? I wonder what John Adams would think.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 10, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
So taxes aren't on any else's Patriotic qualification list.

Not sure why, everyone seems to make it about volunteering for service, but most of these people volunteer because they have no near term future, not out of patriotism.

My system is a simple scale, The more you pay of your fair share, the more patriotic you are.

The harder you try to avoid paying your fair share the less patriotic you are.

Mitt Romney would be classified as Very Unpatriotic, putting his money in offshore banks, getting paid in capital gains rather than salary, etc.

These people are so Unpatriotic that they pay Yuge amounts of money in consulting costs and lawyers just so can pay less to the Government.

Voting for low taxes for the rich is a sign of being unpatriotic.

Every penny you divert away from going to the Gov. is one tiny bit of Patriotic betrayal.
Everyone wants to pay the least in taxes, but how far should you go?
You go to your patriotism level, high or low.

So in conclusion, almost every right winger is very unpatriotic and their values are seriously compromised.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
Patriots can only be forged in the crucible of combat. We welcome our inevitable coup and return to the worship of Odin.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 10, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
I can't stand it when folks resort to 'patriotism' as a political ploy. They can go f*#k themselves

Hey now. If you don't let folks resort to 'patriotism' just where do you expect scoundrels to go for their last refuge?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 10, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
Raider Nation at war with america


http://nypost.com/2016/03/09/illegal-immigrant-arrested-after-murder-spree/



Ohh baby that GOLDEN WALL is coming...
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 02:36pm PT
Locker posted
and TAXES are enough of a reason to "EARN" that right IMO...

Well, it's just my opinion, but I like what Israel and Switzerland do. It doesn't have to be military.
With 40 some percent not paying income tax and if only taxpayers vote it sounds like the 18th century.
I know that's not what you meant, but some kind of "Ask not what your country can do for you..." would put us all in the same boat.
Great divide in this country now.
Both sides responsible for that.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 10, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
ON MARCH 9, TRUMP BROUGHT HIS NUREMBERG RALLY SHOW TO NORTH CAROLINA

A PROTESTER WAS ATTACKED WHILE IN THE CUSTODY OF TRUMP'S SECURITY TEAM

IN THE ONLINE VIDEO, YOU CAN SEE TRUMP'S SECURITY TEAM IS WEARING BROWN SHIRTS



A Trump protester was attacked while being escorted out by Trump's security staff, ostensibly local Sheriff's Deputies. While the protester was held and restrained in police custody, one of Trump's supporters strode forth and physically attacked the protester.

The deputies then threw the protester to the ground, and wrenched his arms behind his back. The deputies made no effort to protect the protester from the assailant, and they made no effort to apprehend the assailant.

The incident, reminiscent of Hitler's political rallies, was captured on video by numerous bystanders and posted to the internet.


Sean Swain, a spokesman for the Cumberland County Sheriff's Department had this to say:

“People here in Cumberland Country realize what this sheriff does, and they didn’t have a complaint about what happened last night.”




Trump Rally Protester Is Attacked While In Police Custody




EDIT:


Violence by Trump's Campaign Staff Includes Assaulting News Reporters



This related story tells how Trump's campaign manager assaulted a female news reporter, who had approached Trump at a rally to ask him a question.

Not surprisingly, Trump's team responded by denying the incident ever took place, and they even went so far as to say that it had "only" been reported in the media, and had never been "officially" recognized as having happened by Trump's staff.


Trump and his campaign staff believe that if they don't officially recognize a particular event, then that event never took place, regardless of evidence and witnesses to the contrary.


Trump has denied many things, including himself on video tape, yet he persists in the belief that his denials somehow, magically, override reality.


That is exactly what George Orwell wrote about, with respect to suppression of facts and distortion of reality by corrupt leaders. In 1984, the government uses the method of "Double-Think" to subdue and suppress the people. The method involves forcing people to hold two, mutually contradictory thoughts at the same time:


A video tape shows Trump at a rally, ridiculing a disabled reporter.

Trump says he never ridiculed a disabled reporter.



A female reporter is assaulted by Trump's campaign manager, and is left with bruises.

The campaign manager says the incident never occurred.




The Trump 2016 Nuremberg show is only going to get uglier and bloodier, because his supporters and staff are like the SA goons that Hitler employed to terrorize his detractors.


Trump's idea of ethnic cleansing may only involve forcible relocation of 10 million people, and not gas-chamber genocide, but Trump is still very much like Hitler.

And his supporters are very much like the SS, Schutzstaffel, "protection squadron".
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 10, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
"We have an "A" from the Better Business Bureau. People like it," Trump said during the Republican presidential debate last week.


"During the period when Trump University appeared to be active in the marketplace, BBB received multiple customer complaints about this business,” the New York area BBB and its national headquarters said in a statement released today. "These complaints affected the Trump University BBB rating, which was as low as D- in 2010," the statement said.

"As the company appeared to be winding down, after 2013, no new complaints were reported. Complaints over three years old automatically rolled off of the Business Review, according to BBB policy. As a result, over time, Trump University’s BBB rating went to an A in July 2014 and then to an A+ in January 2015.”

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bbb-explains-minus-grade-trump-university/story?id=37491525
dirtbag

climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 02:51pm PT
I agree Larry, at least expand voluntary service opportunities.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 10, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
Getting thrown in jail for refusing to serve in an unjust war, I think that's just as patriotic as dropping an H-bomb on somebody's head.


"I'm as patriotic as the next guy, it's just that I've never worn red, white and blue very well."
Steve Earle
Norton

Social climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 04:02pm PT

Trump Supporter Who Sucker Punched Black Protester: ‘Next Time, We Might Have To Kill Him’ (VIDEO)


http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/03/10/trump-supporter-who-sucker-punched-black-protester-next-time-we-might-have-to-kill-him-video/
dirtbag

climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 04:22pm PT
I'm sure he meant "lynch."
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 10, 2016 - 04:25pm PT
My prediction
The GOP will try to nominate Cruz,
or have a crazy brokered Convention and all chaos will ensue
maybe Kasich will come out of it, maybe someone else...(JEB, Lying Ryan)
Rubio is out

You have to have a certain number of delegates, if you don't have them, it's going down to Brokered
dirtbag

climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
Either way Craig, brokered or not, they are scroooooooed.

Get out the popcorn. :-)
dirtbag

climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 04:36pm PT
Donald. Fooking. Trump.

Republican nominee for president.

This still seems like a weird dream.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
Trump will have more than enough delegates.

They would have to renege on their pledge to vote for
him on the first ballot, highly unlikely.

No brokered convention, it's Donald vs Hillary

Hillary wins by over 5 million popular and over 80 Electoral Votes.

And church will be out.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 10, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
I'm wondering what happens if they broker Trump out of the GOP.
Will he go third rail?



And church will be out.

Look out, when those randy Trump supporters get beat, the fireworks will certainly fly.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
I don't think so, but I think he'd raise a lot of hell and make sure the republicans tanked.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 10, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
Define patriot: a person who loves and strongly supports or fights for his or her country.

People may have other definitions but I always thought of a patriot as someone who loves their country. I think you have the right to define yourself as a patriot on not depending on your definition. It bugs me when people presume to tell someone they are something or not based on their definition. Like people telling Mormons they aren't Christian. They believe in Christ, they believe they're Christian, end of story.

The lame dude sucker punching the black guy at the Trump rally just motivated thousands more black people to go to the poles and vote for Hillary. Not sure that's what he had in mind but that'll be the result. Idiot.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
Yeah well.... He's also motivated angry Trumpers to start brawling at rallies in hopes to get their 15 minutes of fame.


My FB feed says Ben Carson is expected to endorse Trump, from the Maragogo.

I had a thought, with these endorsements - wonder if they're getting offers they can't refuse from Trumps old mafia goons.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 10, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
poles

Polls.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 05:30pm PT
McGraw is not affiliated with the Trump campaign. But Trump did tell supporters last week during a scuffle at a rally: "Try not to hurt him. If you do I'll defend you in court." That is an unacceptably mixed message.


http://www.vox.com/2016/3/10/11197398/vox-sentences-donald-trump-rallies-violence

Very presidential.

Norton

Social climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
Very presidential.


but Donald said the other day that he would be Presidential when he took office

so no reason to rush into acting Presidential, gotta be tiring
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
^Dems are diggin' it.



The godfather of all elections:

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 10, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
My next futuristic prediction

Everyone that endorsed Trump will be toxic

Christy, Ben Carson, a couple others
it sucks to make bad choices

Rubio is out
Only Cruz and Kasich are left
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 10, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
My prediction: The Craigster's head is going to explode.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 10, 2016 - 07:36pm PT
Richard Pryor?

[Click to View YouTube Video]
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 10, 2016 - 07:36pm PT
My prediction: haters get a historic drubbing.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 10, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-violence_us_56e1f16fe4b0b25c91815913
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:24am PT
HG2 Wrote:

What do you think Khris Kristofferson meant when he wrote "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose," and how does that equate with your definition of the word "freedom?"

I'm sorry, I don't understand the reference so I'm not sure how to answer. Maybe you can explain more of what you mean?

TE Wrote:
At what time since 1776 do you believe the entire population of the United States (not just educated, white, christian, heterosexual males) was most free?

Do you honestly believe President Trump will do a single thing to bring us closer to that mythological time?

Firstly, I think you have me confused with a Trump supporter. The man is no different than every other Dem and Rep candidate. A ego-maniacal gold digger that puts their own personal success well above the needs of the US citizens. Essentially a non-statesmen and consistent with the rest of our elected officials from top to bottom just about.

As embarrassing as it is, the benefit Donald Trump brings to the table is showing our political process for just what it is and the fact that members of the established elected elite are being shown for what they truly are.

That being said, regarding your other question......

I am of the opinion that every single day in this country we, as a people, are less free than we were yesterday. I think that is a true statement for my entire life (I'm in my 40s). And I am confident that I could prove it. There might be a day or two when we held steady, but that would be it. Some days were little freedom bites with localized impact, others were massive with national importance. But the steady encroachment is quite real.

Its tough to spot the exact moment when we started this collective slide but I would probably have to say it was in the 50s or 60s. In truth, the government has been encroaching since the ink dried on the Constitution but the pace of change pivoted dramatically and that's that spot I'm speaking of. There were some big bites early on, like the NFA in 1934 for example. Maybe those were the opening salvos?

An important element worth noting, regarding the qualifications you placed on the question pertaining to race, gender, religious and sexual orientation. I think they are totally appropriate to the broad discussion of freedom in our country. However, I believe it has to be taken in context of the overall encroachment of individual liberty and the assault on freedom our government has been carrying out.

To say that an uneducated black, jewish and gay man is more free today is great, but that's only in the context of how less free the entire populace is, including that man.

To be clear, I am not claiming that the collective freedom somehow suffers when certain parts of it become more free.

What I'm saying is the bar of freedom is falling for everyone, including whatever minorities you might mention.

In business terms it would be like getting a larger share of a shirking market.




rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:32am PT
The Chump hasn't done his homework...His tent is a small one and his agenda ( making America great ? ) ambiguous...You can't win votes with that approach...The Messicans would be smart to help build a wall to keep Stupid Americans out...
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:45am PT
Its tough to spot the exact moment when we started this collective slide but I would probably have to say it was in the 50s or 60s.

So after Brown v. Board of Education and the Civil Rights Act of 1964, we were less free?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:57am PT
The lame dude sucker punching the black guy at the Trump rally ...

That dude was so lame, he didn't have the courage to actually punch the guy--he hit him with his elbow. A real mama's boy.

This whole thing about political correctness, energized by FOX News, has people thinking that showing kindness to others is a sign of weakness. You get folks like this dude, who think that they can express their bigotry and racism on their sleeve, and it's cool because, hey, why should I be politically correct?

Yeah, the GOP has brought this upon themselves.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:59am PT
Not surprisingly, this concept is lost on many.

To say that an uneducated black, jewish and gay man is more free today is great, but that's only in the context of how less free the entire populace is, including that man.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 11, 2016 - 09:34am PT
Escopeta, please explain how less free the populace is today. That concept is lost on me, you are right, and I'd like to be less in the dark.

Thanks in advance for the time you put into explaining this.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 09:48am PT
Escopeta posted
Not surprisingly, this concept is lost on many.


Please enumerate the ways I am less free now than I would have been 50 years ago.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 11, 2016 - 09:56am PT
has people thinking that showing kindness to others is a sign of weakness.

A lot of the right wing B.S. reminds me of schoolyard bullies. Act tough, be aggressive, that's strength. No true strength is being fair, kind, and respectful, but standing your ground when appropriate. It the words of that terrible Patrick Swayze movie, be nice, until it's time to not be nice. Trump wanting to murder the families of terrorists shows what a coward he is. America is strong enough to defeat it's enemies without resorting to the dirty tactics the terrorists use. THAT is strength.


and re: freedom I've posted this quote before but it's too good to not repeat:

Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man's nose begins.

We haven't lost much true freedom, if any I'd like to hear some examples. We have more restrictions, but that's mostly based on protecting other people's rights and freedoms.

Some smokers are the perfect example. They complain about their freedom to smoke being taken away, when the restrictions are about keeping them from imposing their smoke on other people. They can smoke all they want if they do it where it doesn't impact other people.

Add: I do sympathize with some folks. Like the religious bakers who don't want to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple, but really there's no difference in that and the discrimination of not allowing black people to eat at a restaurant. It's discrimination and if you allow it in some circumstances you have to allow it in all circumstances and pretty soon you can discriminate against anyone for anything and people can't find places to live or eat.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 10:11am PT
Werner, you've been living in a walled police state of your own choosing for 40 years.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 10:28am PT
Mmmmmm the "I know everything by saying nothing" retort. Come on, Werner. Say something subtantive.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 11, 2016 - 10:30am PT
Wbraun HDDJ doesnt even know who RAIDER NATION is.. total east coast snob!
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 11, 2016 - 10:37am PT
Because you're more brainwashed and ignorant then ever before your freedoms have been unknowingly eroded.

The only restrictions man has on his freedom are self-imposed.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 10:55am PT
Please enumerate the ways I am less free now than I would have been 50 years ago.

Compared to 50 years ago, here are some ways we are less free:
 Can't say "nigger," "kyke," "polack," spic" out loud any damned where we please, and have to plan ahead to avoid the risk of legal trouble for refusing to rent shelter or refuse services to people of color. That can be extremely restrictive for those who have enjoyed the liberty of those things previously.
 Can't expect any female employee of your to just put up with sexual innuendo. Can't touch the women at work like you used to. Have to be really careful about even getting seen eyeballing a female employee's backside as she walks past, lest some as#@&%e accuse you of making the work environment unhealthy.
 Can't drink yourself silly and drive home from the bar - or even your damned neighbor a few miles down the road's house!
 Can't send your kid on a simple errand like buying a pack of cigs at the corner store.
 Can't get away with telling your wife it's her duty to have sex with you and if she isn't in the mood, too damned bad - it's your right as a man to take it.
 Can't dispose of old tires by burning them in the backyard, can't change your oil and dump the old oil on top of those tires about to get burned, can't even dump old gas out!
 Practically being forced to disrobe just to get through the line to board a plane - can't have a damned cigarette during the flight, fer god's sake!!!!!!

On the plus side, about all we have gained is the ability to take nude pictures of people, and even shots that include sexual activity and not have to worry about the prude at the Kodak booth calling the police.



Oh, it goes on and on - those damned freedoms we once enjoyed and now chafe under the restrictive laws which govern them!



Now, I know that of course this is not what was really meant by less free - or at least I sure hope not! However, I have the feeling that if pressed, it really would come down to things like this that get some people feeling chaffed.






Norton

Social climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 10:57am PT

Happie hits it clean out of the park !!!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 11:07am PT
Happie- Those were most of the things I could think of. Escopeta is an :effort: poster so there's no way he's going to come up with anything.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Mar 11, 2016 - 11:13am PT
ok Escopeta, let's see your list... i am genuinely curious.

i'll start with, off the top of my head, the ways you are more "free" than you were in the 1950s and 60s:
 lower personal income tax rates
 more free to love and marry people of whatever color you want
 more free to love and marry people of whatever gender you want
 more free to express your sexuality and gender with much more freedom than in the past
 more environmental protections [you'd probably put this in the other category, but i'll argue that being free of someone destroying the commons, increases rather than decreases freedom]
 more free to live where/buy from who/sell to who/employ who/be employed by who you want regardless of color/sexuality/gender
 much freer access to information
 much greater and freer ability for individuals to potentially and effectively communicate to the masses and for the masses to communicate to the individual

and here are a few ways you are less free [one that you already mentioned, along with some obvious ones that are off the top of my head]
 more firearms laws
 more drug laws
 you're forced to carry health insurance
 potentially subject to non-transparent limitations on air travel



i'm looking forward to the specifics that i've missed regarding what you see as being the great degradation in personal freedom... i'll continue to reflect on whether there are other ways we have become more free...

regardless of whether we agree, from my perspective it is an interesting and worthwhile question.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 11, 2016 - 03:32pm PT
Yeah, nice list Happi.

Certainly, I think the ever-present invasion of our privacy by large corporations and Gov't entities (like the NSA) makes us less free, in a real sense.

We are no longer free to protest multi-national corporations and entities like the WTO, look at what happened in Seattle where funds for war were diverted to squelch the protesters. Think of what the police state would do today if the Watts riots erupted now.

So yes, in some important ways, we are certainly less free today. But one way we are more free is the access to news, and social media, via the internet. Before, black folks would get shot, or choked, and nobody could say anything because it'd be your word against the cops. Now, people have video of these events.

The world turns, and there's the man, always trying to put their foot on the necks of the common folk.
"Real freedom." I'm still waiting for a definition of that one.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
I, too, have a real concern about the ramification of our reduced personal privacy. It's so easy to have incorrect information attributed to a database which we are included on, and that incorrect information can have far-reaching consequences we may not even be able to comprehend, simply because we cannot know what the future brings.


This was part of Snowden's message, if I understand correctly. Yet many of those who feel their freedom is being taken away also see Snowden as a traitor to the country.

I'm not sure how to back away from what is already established. Would it be possible to invent some sort of personal firewall from which we could allow the exit of data "as needed" and then tuck it back safely away for the protection of our privacy? Not the way things work at this point.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 11, 2016 - 04:06pm PT
Happi, one of the main freedoms that I see eroded as a result of NSA intrusion is not necessarily my own personal freedom (although the point you make is well taken), but rather the now near-impossibility for any conversation to be private.

It's now more difficult than ever for whistle blowers to remain anonymous. The concept of a "Deep Throat" existing is now scant--our Gov't agencies are able to piece together almost every conversation that you've had with anybody. Sure, you can still meet on park benches. But now that they're using drones on we US civilians, even that might not be as secretive as you might think. So, unless you can actually meet 1-on-1 somewhere, it's getting more and more difficult to rage against the machine.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 11, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
And on those long (and I'm sure insufferable to Escopeta) lists of how we are less free now than in the 50's & 60's, let's not forget that many states have mandatory seat belt laws.

Of course any true patriot doesn't use seat belts, just to show those government folks that they are true Americans, not sheep.

I was thus amused a few years back, when very conservative ex-Idaho Congresswoman Helen Chenoweth died because whe was driving without her seat belt in a one-car rollover in rural Nevada.

From Wikipedia:
During her tenure, she was referred to by her most outspoken critics as a "poster-child for the militias," and in February 1995 she voiced the suspicion that armed federal agents were landing black helicopters on Idaho ranchers' property to enforce the Endangered Species Act, in line with a longstanding conspiracy theory.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Chenoweth-Hage
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 04:36pm PT
Was it last year that both John Nash and his wife were both killed in a car accident, and neither was wearing seatbelts?

I remember when I was a young driver, feeling they were so uncomfortable. And actually, the shoulder one in my van rides up too high and is really annoying. I am constantly puling it down away from my neck. But, I put it on - except when I am driving back from filling my water jugs at the preserve - I live dangerously on that 1/32nd mile stretch!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
A private business is required to disallow smoking in its establishment.

Our government is spying on us. And using the information to prosecute citizens for victimless crimes. (see next line) In truth, it would be hard to argue that the 4th amendment even still exists.

There are so many federal crimes that no one even knows how many there are (aka Three Felonies a Day) they abandoned the project to catalogue them all.

Violent criminals have a government guarantee that honest people are unarmed if they're away from their homes or businesses in many places.

Taxes, Fees, Licensing, Penalties, Estate Tax, Corporate Tax, Capital Gains Tax, Sales Tax, Permits, Payroll Tax, Alternative Minimum Tax, Fuel Tax, Cigarette Tax, Value Added Tax, Goods and Services Tax, Property Tax, Import Tax,. That’s just to name a few.

A landowner must pay thousands of dollars in fees, taxes and licensing just to build a toolshed on the property they own.

Forced to pay into a government supplied healthcare solution, regardless of whether they use it.

Forced to pay into a government savings program. EDIT: With no guarantee of even getting your principle back.

The logical equivalent of a standing army. (And they are open for business I might add.)

Protesting is now criminal (HR347 for reference)

The government is actively trying to limit legitimate businesses access to financial services (and they have a cool name for it - Operation Chokepoint)

Terrorists can be subdued, detained and even assassinated without due process. (I encourage you to research what qualifies as terrorist for your own edification)

The amount of goods and cash seized via Civil Asset forfeiture exceeds the amount of goods and cash stolen through legitimate burglaries (pun intended)

Americans are being arrested for having the audacity to film police officers

Peaceful protestors are being tear-gassed, beaten and arrested.

An adult US citizen required to wear a seat belt. A motorcycle helmet.

“a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 11, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
Wow, this is a tough one!!!

In the data collection vs. personal freedoms tug-of-war, I've been on the side of data collection thus far.

I have close friends that have been at the tip of the spear in Africa and the Middle East. There's no hyperbole here folks, when it comes to the threats we face- it's dire. I also have a cetain amount of trust in the current administration.

That said- the closer we get to a Trump or Cruz administration, I find myself letting loose of the rope and ready to join the other camp.

Admittedly, it sucks that Im willing deny my buddies the intel they need to fight the fight because the electorate is stoopid enough to consider such evil f*#kheads to run this country.

Evil f*#kheads like this will trash the Constitution every time in the name of national security, from "enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC"- ie.; professors, students, Democrats, socialist, unions, environmentalists, protesters, occupiers, Arabs, non-Zionists jews, pot smokers, vegans, non essential government entitiess such as the EPA, DOE, FEMA, HUD, Social Security, Medicaid, NASA, NOAA...

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
Happie
That was a great post. Very insightful and humorous.

I am of the school of thought that see's liberty and security as a zero sum game.

When I go through TSA, that is an imposition on my free movement and I have had many tools confiscated at my own cost.
The NSA now snoops on us all. But the genie of the ethernet is out of the bottle. It is buyer beware, cause nothing on computers or phones is private anymore.

Microsoft, Google, Apple, Facebook are the new oligarchs and they buy and sell personal information for their own ends.

We live in a world that could be considered over credentialed. When simple hairdressing skills in some states require a state credential...I'm just remembering this off the top of my head, corrections welcome.

Kids can't just open the lemonade stand anymore.

Maybe some of this is good but it's not the world I grew up in and I find the fringes of political correctness to be pure BS.
I also understand that the world changes on us all and the rug will be pulled out from most of us before we are done in this life. That's why I take it all with some bemusement.
My ego isn't big enough for me to be a know it all.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
Would you guess that Joe of Crab Shack fame is a Trump or Cruz supporter?

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
^ That was in my FB news feed today. For those who don't look to FB for news, it was a picture of a hanging, that was used as decor at a restaurant called Joe's Crab Shack. I guess the image was embedded into a dining table, and included some added text(seen in the image) about "just said the Gumbo wasn't that good" or something similar.

The news story said the owner apologized "to those who were offended." I suppose that means that he shared a chuckle with those who weren't offended.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
Escopeta

Genuine gratitude for your answer to my challenge. I really didn't expect such a detailed explanation of your delusion.

You fail to recognize that there more sinister entities that seek to limit our freedom and the entire purpose of Government is to help protect its citizens from those. Whether it be external nations, thieves, murderers, rapists, fraudsters, polluters, bigots, child labor exploiters, drought, famine or disease, there are far worse tyrannies than having to pay taxes and live in relative security. Don't give me that Ben Franklin quote about liberty and safety unless you quote it properly and research what he was actually taking about.

Most significantly, in common with so many Libertarians, you confuse the limited role of the original Federal Government as being representative of the appropriate role of government as a whole. The 1776 or 1789 government had no mandate to regulate those actions of citizens or corporations which potentially harmed other citizens. It took a civil war to change that.

TE
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
Game on. Get out of Chicago.

You ain't seen nothing yet.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
Happiegrrrl2, you are legally free to say those words without Government interference, although not to use them on your employees. Strangely, most people don't realize that it took until the 1920's to achieve even that basic freedom.

Otherwise 99/100 for the response.

TE
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
The entire purpose of government is to protect us from external nations, thieves, murderers, rapists, fraudsters, polluters, bigots, child labor exploiters, drought, famine or disease?

God just smashed a kitty with a sledgehammer.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
The irony of so many people posting hateful propaganda towards DT is amusing and kinda sad.
Hate it hate, whether or not you feel justified doing so.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Gimme a break. Bigot starts the fire, fans the flames and them watches in amusement.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
yeah

the real irony is that Mr, Trump has not said or done anything to encourage this

it is not his fault that outside agitators show up with the intention of starting fights

Mr. Trump just wants to deliver his message, speaking about foreign policy, etc

the liberal main stream media is lapping this up and making Mr Trump look bad
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
Rules are made for people who need rules.

I understand the concept you refer to, Escoperto, but what would you have us do, to reduce the amount of let's just take one example - discrimination against black people in America? Leave it to the common sense of people?

One would, of course HOPE that would be the way to go, but history(and current events) show us this is not a feasible solution(at least, if you are a black American).

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:53pm PT
Trump is joke but this isn't funny any more.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-rally-chicago_us_56e366ece4b0b25c9182176f
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:53pm PT
the real irony is that Mr, Trump has not said or done anything to encourage this

You mean other than offering to pay attorney's fees to anyone who beat up dissenters?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/10/trump-once-said-he-would-pay-legal-fees-for-people-who-beat-up-protesters-now-that-its-happened-can-he/
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 11, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
Um, maybe Norton is being sarcastic.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
Rules are made for people who need rules.

As I said previously, if government is involved, I support the equal application of rights protection.

But I think the government should step out of a great many things. If the government is doing nothing, then they are doing nothing for everyone.

The government is a poor referee. I do not submit my freedom to make them the great referee of how people should live their life, and I'm pretty sure that was the crux of the whole constitution.

Protect rights equally, but afford the freedom for people - all people- to live, earn, fail and succeed on their own. The minute government tries to level the playing field, like many things the government does, it normally has the exact OPPOSITE intended effect. And the elite take further advantage.

As it turns out, black people are pretty smart. They can figure it out just like the rest of us. They can do it, I've seen it happen.

Why on earth have we not demanded that the last and most powerful pieces of Jim Crow legislation get wiped from the legal books once and for all? The right for black people to defend themselves.


Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 11, 2016 - 06:52pm PT
Who's "offended" by a picture on the wall at Joe's Crab Shack? I guess a hundred years after the fact is still too soon.

Do you remember the Rialto Fireworks Factory Explosion And Suicide? A guy working at a fireworks factory committed suicide by blowing up the building. He called his wife a minute before he lit the big fuse, and said "Look out the window, Honey. You're about to see a hell of a flash." I felt the explosion twenty miles away, along with everyone else in the San Bernardino Valley.

When the picture of the flattened building came out in the paper, I framed it and captioned it "I wanted a BUD Light" to play along with the Budweiser ad campaign running at the time, and hung it on the wall of the bar where I worked.

Did I care that someone died there - suicide - and left behind a wife and family? Did I care that a couple days after the event was too soon to work it for a laugh? Hell no. I had beer to move.

Your Freedom to post tasteless sh#t on a bar wall without being second-guessed is gone, along with the bar owner's right to decide if people are allowed to smoke in his bar.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
Home free after 100 years for LYNCHING? Sure why not.

How about gassing people and burning them in an oven. 150 years?

Maybe some photos of Auschwitz "skeleton people" and a caption like "can I get you some fries with that gas?" on the wall at IHOP.

If you can dig it, look here.

http://maragon31.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/aushweitz4.jpg

"Lynching in America: Confronting the Legacy of Racial Terror" documents 3,959 racial terror lynchings of African Americans in 12 states between 1877 and 1950. The report asserts the lynching of African Americans was "terrorism" and a widely supported "phenomenon used to enforce racial subordination and segregation." The systemic abuse and murder of African Americans was widely supported by the white dominant culture - so much so that the picture displayed at the Crab Shack showed crowds of people who gathered to attend the grotesque event.




Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 11, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
Here are some poor dumb bastards, just wanting to do their own thing, who are being terrorized by the A.D.A.

http://www.laweekly.com/news/child-sex-abuser-profits-by-suing-1-000-firms-under-disability-act-4137399

http://www.vcreporter.com/cms/story/detail/compliance_gone_wild/9700/

Dumb bastards ( for thinking they can run a business in California ) But can you really blame them if they're soured on the A.D.A.?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
Well, in the case of public buildings - such as city hall, courthouse, etc. That's a no brainier in my view.

If you are hanging a shingle out and intend to serve the general public, I could get talked into the rationale around requiring making your establishment ADA capable (although some of the codes are absolutely f*#king stoopid and counterproductive) But honestly I'm starting to backslide on some of these things a little, especially in the case of the gay people requiring a wedding cake insanity.

If you want to have a facility that caters to a club or specific group of people. And you want to flip off anyone that doesn't meet your criteria - whatever it is - then by all means they can rip out the ramp. In that case you aren't open to the public per se. I could care less if they decided they didn't want black, white, blue or purple people. If that's how you want to organize and structure your business, go for it.

Relevant side story: I came across a small business owner in SoCal that I helped come up with a really great inventive solution to a parking problem. It was a convenience store that I used to buy my Copenhagen from. He gave me a good price (well, good relatively speaking since the majority of the expense was actually taxes) so I liked to stop in there. He was nice.

Anyway, It was a tiny place with only a handful of close parking spaces and two of them were taken up by the requisite handicap spots. It was kind of an inconvenient place to go due to the parking and he was lamenting the fact that in 6 years or something, he had never had anyone park in one of the handicap spots. 6 years and he felt like the inconvenience of parking was costing him customers.

So I said, "why don't you just paint 2 spots in the middle of the parking lot right in front." It still meets the requirements, it lets you utilize the 2 prime spots for regular customers and if a handicapped person happens in after 6 years, who cares if its a bit of a road block for a little while as they would be parked in the middle of the parking lot. A minor inconvenience for a short period of time.

It worked awesome. He never got a handicapped customer, got to use the two spaces but still reserved space in case someone came in.

Two years later the fire department fined him for potentially blocking a fire lane. Made him change back. A boot stamping on every face - forever.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 11, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
Jim,
Per ADA:
In San Diego, a Guamanian friend named Dave had a bicycle shop with a coffee shop next to it. Nicest guy, would fix simple stuff for free, throw in surplus parts for free.

One day a couple years ago a lawyer showed up and said Dave didn't have handicapped access at his shop and threatened legal action. The lawyer had been stopping at every store front on University Ave for the shakedown.
I don't know all the legal details, but Dave was devastated. He sold his shop a couple months later.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 11, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
Poor dumb bastard, trying to run a bike shop.

Imagine, right out of the blue, you're hit with a $10,000 automatic liability ( the going rate for the A.D.A. parking shakedown ). That'd set you back. Wouldn't it? It'd set anybody back. And for what?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
The morass of governmental licenses, approvals, permits and shakedowns required to start a business today is something I wouldn't wish on anyone.
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Mar 11, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
Donald is a whacko. Anyone who supports him is obviously uneducated and on the high end of the loser scale, IMO
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
You drinkin Jimbo?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
And then there's the undue hardship component of ADA accessability that keeps a little common sense in compliance...Of course you need an attorney to decipher the fine print...Ironic that George W. passed this law..
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:35pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
^ lie detector ? ( or breathalyzer ) ^

So I'm not alone in my thinking then?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
In terms of advocacy of freedom, you may be right. Regarding your sobriety, not so much.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 09:02pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 11, 2016 - 09:11pm PT
Its that what you are doing? Calling out my arguments? Because you went straight to the ST Punt response and claimed I was trolling which is code for "I have no viable argument, so I'll call you a troll in an attempt to deflect from that fact". Carry on
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 11, 2016 - 10:48pm PT
Why on earth have we not demanded that the last and most powerful pieces of Jim Crow legislation get wiped from the legal books once and for all? The right for black people to defend themselves.

So grab a gun and go "stand your ground" at Trump rally?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 12, 2016 - 12:13am PT
Jim wrote:As a last shred of taking you seriously, please list the historical, democratic benefits Libertarians have produced that everyone enjoys presently.


They have none. They just whine a lot.

The US government has always bailed out it's citizens, even libertarians like Clive Bundy.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 12, 2016 - 12:22am PT
The morass of governmental licenses, approvals, permits and shakedowns required to start a business today is something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

Have you ever started a business? I've started three, the most recent 11 months ago here in guberment-happy Oregon and it took less than a week to do it, none of the fees at any level of government were anything but modest and most of the process was conducted painlessly on-line. Several of my friends have similarly started companies with little to no hassle and at a reasonable cost.

Fact-Check:Absolutely false.





Never prouder to be from Chicago - the homies shutdown the bigots

Hopefully this will start happening in every city where he tries to throw a rally from here on out. Probably have to start booking suburban venues.

dirtbag

climber
Mar 12, 2016 - 02:26am PT
Can you imagine the chaos that would break out if there is a contested convention?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 12, 2016 - 04:00am PT
Escorts posted
morass of governmental licenses, approvals, permits and shakedowns required to start a business today is something I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I'm sorry that your combination coal mine/passenger airline/hospital didn't make it through the red tape. While I found it annoying to have to keep up with my business license, workmans comp and incorporation paperwork that's only because I didn't want to do it and not because it was particularly unreasonable.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 12, 2016 - 04:03am PT
Indeed. Things are getting going

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-anti-donald-trump-movement-is-making-america-scary-2/

The protestors cheered when police announced the rally would be shut down because of security concerns. They revelled in their victory against free speech, taunting the furious Trump fans with chants of ‘we won’.

This is American politics now: juvenile, anti-liberal, menacing.

As lots of conservatives on social media have already said, just imagine if a bunch of violent Trump fans had disrupted a Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton event. They would be called fascists, and the condemnation would be global. Politicians across the world would issue statements expressing concern.

The global attitude...

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 12, 2016 - 04:56am PT
You're the first on this thread to dismiss something someone else said you don't like as a product of alcohol.

No way that's a troll move...

Maybe you're not so sure in what you believe in. That's OK, faith is never sure.

That's because usually I disagree with you, but you make sense. Since you weren't making sense, I assumed you were drunk.

Now I'm realizing that its just that you don't really have a viable opposing argument.

Sorry, my mistake.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 12, 2016 - 05:09am PT
One thing that is definitely interesting and certainly disturbing. The US has enjoyed one thing that a great many other democracies have trouble with.

And that's the peaceful transition of power following an election.

Feels like that winning streak might come to an end.

I would love to be a fly on the wall at the FBI and NSA to see how they are tuning up the spying efforts to prepare for that.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 12, 2016 - 06:25am PT
Feels like that winning streak might come to an end.

That, is a self-fulfilling prophecy of the now far-fringe-right gop whipped into an absolutely mindless hysteria by radio jocks and a gop political class who have never been able to muster more creativity or integrity in fifty years of campaigning than to spread fear, bigotry and xenophobia. They then re-districted to concentrate and enhance that hysteria. So yeah, now that they have their base hysterical, is it any wonder they then feel justified to resort to violence. Morons, and played like so many friggin Stratavari. An veritable sea of white, middle-class, male victims whose heads would be up their asses except for the fact that the boots of corporations who use social issues to get people to vote against their own economic interests are already firmly lodged in that space.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 12, 2016 - 07:09am PT
Trump and Rush Limbaugh, leaders of the republican party. Enough said.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 12, 2016 - 07:22am PT
The tide has turned on Trump, hopefully not too late.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 12, 2016 - 07:54am PT
Trump complains that he, and his supporters right to free speech was violated when the rally was shut down. However, it's ok for him to violate the rights of people who disagree with him.

Oh, ok, just another case of conservatives picking, and choosing what parts of the Constituion the like.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 12, 2016 - 08:02am PT
Cry babies, cry.

dirtbag

climber
Mar 12, 2016 - 08:30am PT
Cry babies, cry.

Fascist.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 12, 2016 - 08:51am PT
The Duck has Quacked out the truth.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 12, 2016 - 09:05am PT
Trump's endorsement of violence back fired..His rallies are likely to get shut down from here on out and turn into a security nightmare...You'd think someone with Presidential aspirations would have thought this out beforehand...Good reason to keep Chump out of the White House and hands away from the launch buttons..
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 12, 2016 - 09:06am PT
Escopeta, if you do quote or paraphrase me, please have the integrity to do it accurately.

Businesses are not people, they are groups given certain special treatment in law by "we the people". They have no inalienable right to even exist, indeed without government they could not exist, and would not need to. Nobody is forced to open a business, nobody is forced to work for one, they choose to do so, and when they choose to do so, they are obliged to abide by the conditions "we the people" apply in return for that preferential treatment in law. There are sound economic, social or moral arguments against many business regulations, but the conflation of the principles of personal Libertarianism with corporate freedom is the greatest deception created by the rich and powerful men behind the curtain.

BTW, my business cost me about $800 to start up, less than $100 of that was government fees.

TE
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 12, 2016 - 09:07am PT
Most likely there were paid people to disrupt the rallies and start fights.

Absolutely not. If you were from there you'd know better.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 12, 2016 - 09:13am PT
RJ - yeah, well drumpf isn't bright enough. He knows what he's doing yet he doesn't. In other words, he can denounce the KKK but at the end of the day can still spew the hateful rhetoric that gets the most hateful people in this country to still strongly support him. As for his inciting violence speeches he knows how to do it while still denying responsibility. And he gets away with hit. So he knows what he's doing there. But it's going to backfire. The negative ad campaigns against him don't need to do anything. He's supplying ALL of the material.

And the duck is probably right. there's probably a few paid by the republicans to stir the sh#t up. But the rest of the protestors are well meaning people completely disgusted by the con man. Drumpf isn't very bright and neither are his supporters.

The dude the sucker elbowed the guy is being brought up on chargers. I hope Drumpf does pay his legal fees. He's so f*#king stupid he probably will and then claim in doing so he's not supporting him.

Don Lemmon asked Drumpfstick about the violence and he straight up lied and said it's the protestors that start the violence. And his supports claim Billary lies. He's lying straight to there faces.

Edit: healyje think about it for a second. you're right. 99%+ of the people protesting are for the reasons you are eluding to. but toss in a few paid for by say Cruz or the RNC and the whole thing blows up. And the well meaning protesters wouldn't know the difference.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 12, 2016 - 09:26am PT
OK TradEddie, I can do that.

and the entire purpose of Government is to help protect its citizens from those. Whether it be external nations, thieves, murderers, rapists, fraudsters, polluters, bigots, child labor exploiters, drought, famine or disease,

And God smashes a kitty with a sledgehammer.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 12, 2016 - 09:37am PT
healyje think about it for a second. you're right. 99%+ of the people protesting are for the reasons you are eluding to. but toss in a few paid for by say Cruz or the RNC and the whole thing blows up. And the well meaning protesters wouldn't know the difference.

Nature, if you knew the town or the UoC neighborhood you'd know how completely unnecessary that would be.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 12, 2016 - 10:07am PT
oh i see what you're saying.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 12, 2016 - 10:50am PT
I thought that Trump had finally found his wall, with the Chicago protests.

Then I read this opinion in the Wa Post, which pointed out:

With the Illinois GOP primary on Tuesday, Trump could have held a rally in one of the more conservative suburbs or a deep-red rural town. Instead, he opted for a giant arena at a richly diverse university in the heart of deeply blue Chicago, guaranteeing he would have protesters and heavy media coverage.

Bottom line, he has manipulated everyone, yet again.

And it is brilliant
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 12, 2016 - 10:56am PT
I'll grant you that location was guaranteed to cause a massive demonstration. If his campaign is trying to play the victim it will backfire on him when there is clear evidence his supporters and even staff are inclined to and incite violence.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Mar 12, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
'Special' political protesting worked in Florida in 2000. It did not stop there.


http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/24/us/counting-vote-miami-dade-county-protest-influenced-miami-dade-s-decision-stop.html

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 12, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
Thus we see how American politics Devolve .....
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 12, 2016 - 12:47pm PT
Read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich."......some eerie parallels.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 12, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
Werner posted
Trump has now said the protesters were staged and funded.

healyje will say "this is pure claptrap and horsesh!t as Trump is lying.

Sorry, Werner, but the truth is often not in the middle. Of course the protesters were organized. I highly doubt they were paid for.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 12, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
Agreed, locker. That power hungry wanna be tough guy is playing with fire.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 12, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 12, 2016 - 05:16pm PT
Read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich."......some eerie parallels.

To Bernie Sanders' and Hillary's viewpoint? Yes, there are.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 12, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich."......some eerie parallels.

To Bernie Sanders' and Hillary's viewpoint? Yes, there are.

Beat me to it.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 12, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
moved

zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 12, 2016 - 05:49pm PT
Stoopid comments, never supported in any fashion.

EDIT: Not locker's

Support for my comment. Read the two above locker.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 12, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
Stoopid comments, never supported in any fashion.

The fact that you too haven't reached the mental equivalent of "You must be this tall to ride" doesn't mean I have to waste my time explaining it to you.

Leg humping locker won't inform you either.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 12, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
I am hoping that Trump takes the nomination. It will be a little like the democrats falling on their swords with the nomination of Eugene Mc Carthy.
Another eight year run for the democrats is okay with me. Some of the other Supreme Court wingnuts would likely nod out giving a Democratic President a great opportunity to bring sanity to that mess
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 12, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
Locker,
You can start by googling the U.S. support of the Neo Nazi Svoboda party in the Ukraine.
The current admin have no problem turning a blind eye when it benefits their objective.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 12, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
Who to blame for this one? Obama, Trump, Rubio, Clinton, Romney?

ANCHORAGE, Alaska – A man suspected of intentionally driving a snowmobile into teams of two mushers near the front of the Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race was arrested Saturday in a Yukon River village.

Arnold Demoski, 26, of Nulato was arrested on suspicion of assault, reckless endangerment, reckless driving and six counts of criminal mischief.

A message left for Demoski at his home was not immediately returned. He told the Alaska Dispatch News that he had not intentionally driven into the dog teams of Aily Zirkle and Jeff King, but he had blacked out while returning from drinking in another village.

zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 12, 2016 - 06:47pm PT

The fact that you too haven't reached the mental equivalent of "You must be this tall to ride" doesn't mean I have to waste my time explaining it to you.

This assumes that your time has some value. It doesn't. Secondarily, it implies that you could explain something. You can't.

Why not just go back to sheepfukking? Wear a rubber so you don't infect any of them.




Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 12, 2016 - 06:52pm PT
Way to go Pud. You can shake locker off your leg now.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 12, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
Why does the silent majority smell of the cheeze?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 12, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
Who to blame for this one? Obama, Trump, Rubio, Clinton, Romney?

dude. Duh!

Broke Obummer is at fault. He's at fault for WWII. Simple fakt. He's always at fault.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 12, 2016 - 08:26pm PT
none of the fees at any level of government were anything but modest and most of the process was conducted painlessly on-line.

I love it when people confirm my post while trying to disagree with it.

Thanks.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 12, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
Escopeter....Most posters like a good leg umping eh..?
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 12, 2016 - 10:33pm PT
the Chicago Rally cancellation scam...

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/donald_trump_chooses_to_cancel_chicago_rally_20160311

Mark Twain, “Anybody can tell lies: There is no merit in a mere lie, it must possess art, it must exhibit a splendid and plausible and convincing probability. That is to say, it must be powerfully calculated to deceive.”

to quote the dictator’s handbook...
Violence at these events, which may start organically, is in effect spot lit and encouraged to the point where it becomes something that is legitimately out of control of anyone. And then the spectacle of political violence is itself seen as something that is a problem that needs to be solved by this strongman character who incited the initial event in the first place

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 12, 2016 - 10:54pm PT
I love it when people confirm my post while trying to disagree with it.

Crikey, if that's what you took away from it then you truly are dumb as a stump and that ain't easy. I would also take that to mean, no, you've never started a business.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 12, 2016 - 11:34pm PT
Donald Trump demands that police arrest rally protesters

Donald would seem to have a poor grasp on the bill of rights. And for a guy who encourages dissent against the government he himself seems to have some pretty serious problems with dissent.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 13, 2016 - 07:57am PT
Bernie Voters are the one's initializing the HATE..

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/12/politics/donald-trump-protests/
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 08:10am PT
Protect rights equally, but afford the freedom for people - all people- to live, earn, fail and succeed on their own. The minute government tries to level the playing field, like many things the government does, it normally has the exact OPPOSITE intended effect. And the elite take further advantage.

As it turns out, black people are pretty smart. They can figure it out just like the rest of us. They can do it, I've seen it happen.

I am pretty certain African Americans and other people of color are much the same as Caucasian people, when it comes to intelligence and motivation. That is, running the gamut from high to low.

The thing many people misunderstand about equal opportunity initiatives is that they AREN'T intended to help a person who is perceived as somehow inferior to another group, but to lower the ability of that other group from to abuse the "perceived as inferior" group.

If you truly believe that, on their own accord, the Caucasian American male(in general) would have willingly treated others(ethnic groups, religious groups, women, and even in some cases other white males who didn't attend "the right schools") equally as they teat their own, you are living in a fantasy world.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 13, 2016 - 08:16am PT
Who the f*#k are you talking about?

I'M a Caucasian American male. I treat people equally. I always have.





crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 13, 2016 - 08:17am PT
Pyro, you don't believe that.

Is there any Trump supporter here that can make the case for him? Seriously?

[Click to View YouTube Video]
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 13, 2016 - 08:24am PT
Good morning cuzzin's!!

Hey there, say, is Trump still an as#@&%e this morning?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 13, 2016 - 08:38am PT
The one trait of conservatives that is so pathetic and shows what their true moral values; it's their pathological hypocrisy and never being able to be accountable for anything, they just shift the blame somewhere else



Violence At Trump Rallies? Cruz Says It's 'Emperor' Obama's Fault

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cruz-emperor-obama


Rubio Blames Obama And ‘The Left’ For Violence At Trump Rallies

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/03/12/3759417/rubio-blames-obama-trump-violence/

The anger of voters and the rise of Trump is Not Obama's fault.
It is the Conservative media and Republican politicians and their terrible policies that has created this anger.
I'm angry too.

They really f*#ked up, and voting them in again will not help calm the anger.
Voting them out is only the first step
We have to get the money out of politics or we are all Doomed
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 13, 2016 - 08:48am PT
We have to get the money out of politics or we are all Doomed


Guessing, the answer is - we're doomed.

Aya K

Trad climber
Boulder, CO!
Mar 13, 2016 - 09:05am PT
Good morning cuzzin's!!

Hey there, say, is Trump still an as#@&%e this morning?


Well, he's looking into paying the legal fees for that old man who sucker punched the black protester and then said next time he might have to kill him....

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-legal-fees-punch-protester-2016-3
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 09:09am PT
Yes Craig, it's really fuked up. Some (not all) of them are very deep in denial about the causes of their party's crackup.

I thought their crack up would come gradually over the next decade because of slowly changing demographics. If there is one blessing of trump's candidacy (assuming he loses) it's that it will force the Republican Party to start acknowledging basic facts (e.g., facts regarding science, economics, demography, etc.), put their kooks in their proper place, and act like a party interested in governing and addressing the needs of our country. Or, not--and die out. Either way, the country would be better off.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 09:12am PT

Trump has a bully mentality, has been provocative and loves stirring up reactionary emotions to the point of encouraging thug behavior. This message attracts many bad players to his side. It was provocative to schedule his event at a college campus in Chicago. What did he expect?

I certainly would expect leftists to devolve into shutting down free speech, or even resorting to violence, when they don't like what someone else stands for or says. That's the nature of their philosophy on campuses today. How else do they interpret Bernie's calls for revolution? The unrepentant terrorist Bill Ayers even has his nose poking in.

To me this is two sides of the same coin. Dissatisfied reactionaries of the left or right calling each other names, resorting to violence and pointing fingers.

The reason these populist reactionaries of both the left and right are supported is because the real economy sucks in the 8 years since the recession. Bernie and Trump are speaking the truth on the true unemployment numbers.
Many reasons for the weak job numbers and those reasons are rooted in the failed philosophies of both the left and right.

Cheap name calling makes shallow people feel good, is broadcast and encouraged by the media, but civility is a casualty.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 09:14am PT
I certainly would expect leftists to devolve into shutting down free speech, or even resorting to violence, when they don't like what someone else stands for or says. That's the nature of their philosophy on campuses today. How else do they interpret Bernie's calls for revolution? The unrepentant terrorist Bill Ayers even has his nose poking in.

To me this is two sides of the same coin. Dissatisfied reactionaries of the left or right calling each other names, resorting to violence and pointing fingers.

Bullsh#t. Those folks you mention are fringe; trump is the leading candidate of a major party.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 09:40am PT
John Kasich, where are his eyebrows?!

He needs to get his testosterone checked.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 13, 2016 - 09:40am PT
The liberal rhetoric drumbeat is strong today. You guys have extra granola in your wheaties this AM?

Or just whistling louder past the graveyard?

The fact that there are so many people willing to support a tard like Trump is an indictment on how crappy your Bernie/Hillary options are as well.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2016 - 09:52am PT
Good post, Larry, although way too even-handed for this loony bin.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 13, 2016 - 10:17am PT
Larry and dirt bag are both right. There are some far leftists willing to incite violence and take things too far. But for every one of them there are 10, 20, 30 or something that far to the right. I watched the video where the guy tried to get on stage with trump. So you have one nutty lefty. But you hear people all around the camera screaming obscenities and calling for violence. Really weird third world country type stuff.

What's really lame though is so many on the right assume if you are not conservative you are are far lefty. As the posts above indicate.

Trumps support says very little about the dems. And very much about the right. Many are bigots. If the majority of republicans were reasonable anyone but trump would be leading.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 10:28am PT
Thanks fet.

And again, there is a difference between a few fringe folks doing this (Bill Ayers' day was over 40 years ago) and THE LIKELY REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT doing this.

Has Sanders threatened to beat any protestor? Hillary? For that matter, do you see this at Cruz or Rubio rallies? What about other major presidential campaigns in the last 50 years (except for, perhaps, George Wallace)?

This both sides do it equivocation is both dangerously wrong and lazy. Donald needs to be called out for this. This is a dangerous, and recent, rot that is exclusive to that campaign.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 13, 2016 - 10:34am PT
No surprise here.

"http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/who-are-donald-trumps-supporters-really/471714/


White male and no college education.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 13, 2016 - 10:44am PT
"The fact that there are so many people willing to support a tard like Trump is an indictment on how crappy your Bernie/Hillary options are as well."


His approval rating with republicans is 49 percent, 26 percent of register voters are republican, do the math.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 10:47am PT
His approval rating with republicans is 49 percent, 26 percent of register voters are republican, do the math.

so 13% of registered voters support Donald Trump?

pyro will have to vote early and often.....

tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 13, 2016 - 10:53am PT
C'mon people, Trump is a humanitarian. Here he is scolding his supporters for sucker punching Ben Carson. He even gave Ben a Trump steak to ease the pain ;-)

nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Mar 13, 2016 - 11:03am PT
*

Has Sanders threatens to beat any protestor? Hillary? For that matter, do you see this at Cruz or Rubio rallies? What about other major presidents campaigns in the last 50 years (except for, perhaps, George Wallace)?

This both sides do it equivocation is both dangerously wrong and lazy. Donald needs to be called out for this. This is a dangerous, and recent, rot that is exclusive in that campaign.

+1

I believe in free speech..but i also believe trump has incited violence. This is a quote from a article that i read this morning that resonated with me.

"The implications of this for what President Trump might do in the White House are terrifying and go well beyond any dispute over public policy.

"The framers of the Constitution rather sharply circumscribed the president's authority to make and repeal legislation, making it in many respects a weaker office than the prime ministerships of more majoritarian countries. But the president and his appointees have enormous discretion over the enforcement of existing laws. Putting a leader who would condone violence against the supporters of his political opponents in charge of the federal law enforcement apparatus is frightening. Giving him the power to unilaterally issue pardons is terrifying. "

I see why trump admires putin..

Btw..The Fet...The man on the stage spoke on NPR this morning..
http://www.npr.org/2016/03/13/470237011/this-cant-go-on-in-chicago-says-anti-trump-protester
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 13, 2016 - 11:07am PT
I'm thinking TRUMP is a bit of a wimp he should have continued with the Chicago rally why cancel it..



The liberal rhetoric drumbeat is strong today. You guys have extra granola in your wheaties this AM?

escopeta it's the KOOL AID drum circle... must of been powerful last night
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Mar 13, 2016 - 11:10am PT
Survey:

Choose and list one or the other for each of these four questions as what you would consider ideal attributes in children and what you would expect when raising a child.

Best Attributes for Children;

1. Independence or respecting others?
2. Obedience or self-reliance?
3. Curiosity or good manners?
4. Considerate or well behaved?


High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 11:10am PT
Have you guys seen this? Wow.
This is America and this is Ted Cruz's pastor, Keven Swanson.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIlPdyrvEfw

Remember the name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBDbGyv6SIQ
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 13, 2016 - 11:28am PT
WOW Kevin Swanson = psychopath. That speech in the Rachel Madow link is shocking.

Limbaugh begat Cruz and Cruz begat Trump. All together they will bring down the Republican party in a politapocalypse of Biblical proportions.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 13, 2016 - 11:30am PT
HFCS,
anyone that relies on religion to guide them morally are incapable of doing it themselves. Have you seen this in DT?

Nita, the people initiating the violence at Trump rallies are the protesters.
If someone doesn't like what you are saying and you are physically attacked by them, it is your fault. This is your logic.
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Mar 13, 2016 - 11:36am PT
*
Pud, no.. that is not my logic.

Later edit, dirtbag ..wrote some of my logic below..

I'm not a fan of explaining myself over & over..It's tiring..
Especially when it's obvious to me ..and most of the whole world..read practically every international paper.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 13, 2016 - 11:45am PT
Cold hearted Duck that rules the night removes the coulours from our sight..Red is gray and yellow white...But he decides which is right...Which is an illusion..
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 11:47am PT
Pud you're wrong. This is what your guy says:

Here is what Donald Trump said at a rally on February 1 in Cedar Rapids, Iowa (via Mediaite):

"if you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of 'em, would you? Seriously. Okay? Just knock the hell — I promise you, I will pay for the legal fees. I promise. I promise."

Here is what Donald Trump said at a rally on March 4 in Warren, Michigan (via the Associated Press):

During one interruption, Trump said, "Get him out. Try not to hurt him. If you do I’ll defend you in court."

"Are Trump rallies the most fun?" he then asked the crowd. "We’re having a good time."

He then recalled an incident at a New Hampshire rally where a protester started "swinging and punching." Trump said some people in the audience "took him out."

"It was really amazing to watch," he said.

Here is what Donald Trump said at a rally on March 9 in Fayetteville, North Carolina (via the Atlantic):

"See, in the good old days this didn’t use to happen, because they used to treat them very rough. We’ve become very weak."

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/11/11202540/trump-violent

And there is more.


Your candidate supports mob violence against political opponents.


I'm assuming you're just ignorant about this but you are ignorant no more.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 13, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
True, true......
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Mar 13, 2016 - 12:20pm PT
No, patito quack.

That's your government.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 13, 2016 - 12:33pm PT
The fact that there are so many people willing to support a tard like Trump is an indictment on how crappy your Bernie/Hillary options are as well.

Baloney. Trump will lose in a landslide. If he does well next Tues. he'll be the nominee. And mainstream Republicans will move to nominate a replacement to run as an independent.
Who do you think that helps?

Or maybe they just deny him the nomination...

But the party’s convention rules, in all their anachronistic, undemocratic and highly-negotiable intricacy, are also a line of defense, also a hurdle, also a place where a man unfit for office can be turned aside.

So in Cleveland this summer, the men and women of the Republican Party may face a straightforward choice: Betray the large minority of Republicans who cast their votes for Trump, or betray their obligations to their country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/opinion/sunday/the-party-still-decides.html?_r=0
Norton

Social climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
Or maybe they just deny him the nomination...


Crankster, what do you know about the Republican Convention rules or operating
procedure that could result in Trump not being the nominee, assuming of course
that he has enough or likely way more than enough pledged delegates that should
elect him on the very first ballot

under that scenario how could he be denied the nomination?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Mar 13, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 13, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
Norton,

I'm no expert...just starting to read about it.

Read this..

http://time.com/4252010/donald-trump-convention-republican/
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 13, 2016 - 02:00pm PT
so any of you Bernie voters who want to go and protest at TRUMPS rally be in mind it's a FELONY.. secret service protect the presidential nominee as such the president.. you learn something everyday!!!

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2012/03/the_anti_protest_bill_signed_by_barack_obama_is_a_quiet_attack_on_free_speech_.html
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
Ok, what does that have to do with trump inciting mob violence against protestors?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 13, 2016 - 02:19pm PT
Ok, what does that have to do with trump inciting mob violence against protestors?

look it up!
keep cry'n occupy!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Restricted_Buildings_and_Grounds_Improvement_Act_of_2011
John M

climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
Ok, what does that have to do with trump inciting mob violence against protestors?

for starters, it means the protesters are the ones being arrested, not the ones attacking the protesters. No more protesting anywhere near a secret service protected event or person.

This gives more fuel to Trumps fire as it means people feel justified in attacking a "law breaking protester". Not that they are. Just that they feel that they are. And with those kinds of people, thats what counts. Not pesky things like its illegal to assault someone. Just that they feel justified in attacking someone who is now a law breaker.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 13, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
The protesters should let him speak. He advances their cause more than they ever could.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 13, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
Protest. Peacefully.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 13, 2016 - 03:37pm PT
The protesters should let him speak. He advances their cause more than they ever could.

well said divad...I was going to say something similar but you beat me to it
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 13, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
He says nothing of substance. Even his dumbest followers will figure that out sooner or later.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 13, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
He says nothing of substance. Even his dumbest followers will figure that out sooner or later.

don't hold your breath.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 03:55pm PT
He says nothing of substance. Even his dumbest followers will figure that out sooner or later.

perhaps pyro will reply and tell us if he fits the Trump demographic

so, Pyro

are you white, male, and lacking the critical thinking skills of a college graduate?

divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 13, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
10b4me, I could never hold my breath that long.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 13, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
Pryo...your man at work...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-bernie-sanders-violence_us_56e56a6fe4b0860f99d94f22


He is an idiot.
Tom Patterson

Trad climber
Seattle
Mar 13, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
Wondering if anyone's mind has been changed in any way by the 4000 plus posts so far. Genuinely curious.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
Yes. Now more than ever it has become abundantly clear that Trump must b stopped.
Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Mar 13, 2016 - 05:07pm PT
Ryan,
If I remember right, when you fixed ropes for me;
You were white,
You were a bad azed climber,
and you worked as a bouncer at "The Candy Cat".
I will never forget that day we met,
and I am proud to call you my friend!
Roger Brown
Edit;
That was so funny; LOL
John M

climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 05:12pm PT



...

Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Mar 13, 2016 - 05:23pm PT

Survey:

Choose and list one or the other for each of these four questions as what you would consider ideal attributes in children and what you would expect when raising a child.

Best Attributes for Children;

1. Independence or respecting others?
2. Obedience or self-reliance?
3. Curiosity or good manners?
4. Considerate or well behaved?

This survey was used to discover the most common denominator in Trump supporters besides other quantifiers such as race, religion, financial status, political party, gender, age group, profession, etc.. The survey found that people who respect authority over independent thinking, and those who would prefer to be led by a person who espoused simple solutions to complicated problems were the most common denominators in Trump supporters above all the other denominators listed.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 13, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
as I said before
Trump is going down, some how, some way, sometime soon.....
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
The protesters should let him speak. He advances their cause more than they ever could.

Note that TRUMP brought this up.

Note that it has led the news cycle for the last 48 hours.

Note that the primary message from Trump is that there is a faction that does not want to allow Repub candidates to speak to their supporters.


This is BRILLIANT manipulation of the media and the news. None of the other candidates can rate a line in any newspaper in the country, unless they are talking about Trump. HE has silenced THEM.

Brilliant.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2016 - 06:04pm PT
Wondering if anyone's mind has been changed in any way by the 4000 plus posts so far. Genuinely curious.

Yes!

Comrade Norton and I have turned into Republicans, and are voting for TRUMP!
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Mar 13, 2016 - 06:24pm PT
*
Wondering if anyone's mind has been changed in any way by the 4000 plus posts so far. Genuinely curious.

I have...

Originally i was thinking..it's the republican's problem, he is effecting their core base voters and ripping the party apart...They were the ones scrambling.

His rhetoric is so divisive and trump has emblazoned his core base voters to disregard common decency...

Hate & blaming/scapegoating towards non caucasians is his main message and bullying is his m.o.

There has been a ugly shift in our country and I hope we can turn it around before it gets any worse.








pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 13, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
Ryan,
If I remember right, when you fixed ropes for me;
You were white,
You were a bad azed climber,
and you worked as a bouncer at "The Candy Cat".
I will never forget that day we met,
and I am proud to call you my friend!
Roger Brown
Edit;
That was so funny; LOL

RB you rock!
i'll send you a PM..
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 13, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
Pyro....Bouncer at " The Candy Cat " ? Was that one of those perverted Log Cabin hang-outs...
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 13, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
so, Pyro

are you white, male, and lacking the critical thinking skills of a college graduate?

Norton College is like so yesterday!

Pure High speed manufacturing is my thing..


Edit:
Norton i wore the wrong shirt one day doing bolt replacement for ASCA a couple summers ago..guess im a SKIN


zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
The more power they gain, the more evil any of them (Hitler, Obama, Trump, Gaddafi, Truman, Rasputin, Amin) become.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2016 - 08:16pm PT
Trump must be stopped

Saying that shows how he has you by the short hairs. In chess that equates to you reacting
to your opponent's moves. You're playing his game. That is not a formula for success.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 08:20pm PT
are you white, male, and lacking the critical thinking skills of a college graduate?


I think education is very important, however, college doesn't "make" one smart, and lack of college doesn't mean one is dumb.
In too many majors, outside of STEM, it can be near worthless.
There is a higher percentage of students going on to college today than ever, but the Bell curve of intelligence hasn't changed.
Do some college students now fall on the left side of the Bell curve?
What did Bill Gates get his degree in?
Generally speaking, a college degree in any STEM is an accomplishment, gender studies, not so much.
The lack of nuance sometimes posted here doesn't seem to be based on critical thinking skills.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 08:43pm PT
This is about Trump, sort of. So what part of STEM did he get his degree in?

Howzabout Reagan, Abe Lincoln and Johnny Appleseed?

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 13, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
I'm not a Trump guy, don't know what his degree is in.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 13, 2016 - 09:04pm PT

This is BRILLIANT manipulation of the media and the news. None of the other candidates can rate a line in any newspaper in the country, unless they are talking about Trump. HE has silenced THEM.
Brilliant.

Wrong. He did not manipulate the media. The media chose to seek ratings/advertising dollars. If they were not seeking the almighty dollar, and actually practiced journalism, trump would have been gone months ago.

btw, whatever happened to investigative journalism?
If there were a Woodward and Bernstein investigating trump, he might be in jail.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 05:00am PT
Reilly posted
Saying that shows how he has you by the short hairs. In chess that equates to you reacting
to your opponent's moves. You're playing his game. That is not a formula for success.

I hear ignoring people advocating violence and intolerance makes them go away. Nothing bad has ever come from this.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Mar 14, 2016 - 05:39am PT
chris hedges recently wrote a poignant column for truthdig:

The Revenge of the Lower Classes and the Rise of American Fascism



this is his concluding paragraph:

There is only one way left to blunt the yearning for fascism coalescing around Trump. It is to build, as fast as possible, movements or parties that declare war on corporate power, engage in sustained acts of civil disobedience and seek to reintegrate the disenfranchised—the “losers”—back into the economy and political life of the country. This movement will never come out of the Democratic Party. If Clinton prevails in the general election Trump may disappear, but the fascist sentiments will expand. Another Trump, perhaps more vile, will be vomited up from the bowels of the decayed political system. We are fighting for our political life. Tremendous damage has been done by corporate power and the college-educated elites to our capitalist democracy. The longer the elites, who oversaw this disemboweling of the country on behalf of corporations—who believe, as does CBS Chief Executive Officer Leslie Moonves, that however bad Trump would be for America he would at least be good for corporate profit—remain in charge, the worse it is going to get.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 14, 2016 - 06:31am PT

Norton said-
are you white, male, and lacking the critical thinking skills of a college graduate?

College degree = critical thinking?

Nice addition to the left wing, elitist stereotype.

Partisan snobbery is marginally better than uninformed stupidity, although you and I probably agree on many topics....
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 06:42am PT
nah000- I would be more impressed if the left would stop citing "corporate profits" like they are a universally bad thing. The only bad part about corporate profits is what they are coming at the expense of. Failing American businesses would not be good.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 14, 2016 - 07:32am PT
HDDJ, being pro-active and presenting viable alternatives is much more affective than
screaming yerself hoarse, even if if it isn't as satisfying. Taking a reading comprehension
course is also pro-active.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 07:38am PT
Well, good morning everyone!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 07:40am PT
Reilly posted
HDDJ, being pro-active and presenting viable alternatives is much more affective than
screaming yerself hoarse, even if if it isn't as satisfying. Taking a reading comprehension
course is also pro-active.

Will the course teach me the difference between "affect" and "effect" or will it just teach me to post really defensively to any perceived criticism?


I agree that "not Trump" alone is ineffective...but maybe you haven't noticed that there is a whole separate party running candidates for President?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 14, 2016 - 07:52am PT
HaHaHa, that's why I only got a 'B' in typing - because I didn't truly perceive how it would
allow me to affect an omniscient persona.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 07:54am PT
Ugh. November. 8 more months of this violence tinged, manufactured psycho drama.

Dingus, I think this is just the beginning. The problem is that his rallies will increasingly attract the anarchist types who show up at otherwise peaceful protests and start throwing rocks at cops. Trump is asking for a fight, and opponents and supporters alike will oblige. So yes, someone will get killed. And can you imagine what the republican convention might be like?
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 08:01am PT
One of the great ironies of trump, which his followers don't get, is that while he proclaims to be a law and order type guy, he urges his followers to engage in mob violence, which is the exact opposite of law and order.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 08:01am PT
I think education is very important, however, college doesn't "make" one smart, and lack of college doesn't mean one is dumb.

Very true, but what college does do, for many people, is expose them to worldviews beyond the one with which they have been raised, and people who they would not encounter had they stayed in the segregated towns which they grew up in.

Has anyone died at a Trump rally yet?

I fear that if Trump does not disavow the violence AND stop using his mixed messages to goad it on, it may come to someone being killed. I am wondering if some Trump supporters will head to Sanders rallies looking to protest and incite violence.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 08:19am PT
Dingus posted
Has anyone died at a Trump rally yet?

Odds? Bets? Will someone die at one (by violence) before November?

Is the GOP proud of its tea party renegades now?

If things continue to escalate like this it is only a matter of time. Sanders' team's decision to respond to Trump the way they did was a bad idea in my opinion.

Happie posted
I fear that if Trump does not disavow the violence

Unfortunately, neither Trump nor his supporters understand the difference between saying the word "disavow" and actually disavowing something.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 08:26am PT
Sanders' team's decision to respond to Trump the way they did was a bad idea in my opinion.

How so? Because he's feeding the trolls?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 08:34am PT
It's not trolling when people are actually becoming violent. There is no shortage of emotional instigators in the Sanders camp and goading Trump voters is obviously a bad idea. Challenging Trump voters to show up in that manner is inflammatory. A more nuanced, measured response was called for.

*edit*

It looks like the account was not an official Sanders account so I prejudged. Has Sanders made any kind of official response?
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 08:46am PT

PALIN & TRUMP 2020? It's too late for 2016.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 08:46am PT
I know it's not trolling but the principle is similar in that responding encourages the other side to engage in bad behavior.

Anyway, Sanders is in a tough position. Denying it throws his campaign into the pig pen, but not saying anything means that the media will start a "Bernie didn't deny it" narrative. And, there are the lessons from the Kerry campaign where kerry refused to respond to the swift boat lies, which eventually hurt him badly.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 14, 2016 - 08:48am PT
Unfortunately, neither Trump nor his supporters understand the difference between saying the word "disavow" and actually disavowing something.

the good thing is that TRUMP supporters can go disrupt a BERN rally and nothing will happen because the BERN is a nobody to the Secret service..


Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:04am PT


Happiegrrrl2 posted:
Very true, but what college does do, for many people, is expose them to worldviews beyond the one with which they have been raised, and people who they would not encounter had they stayed in the segregated towns which they grew up in

Hey Happie,
I agree with that, although I wouldn't make a blanket generalization that "those" people come from segregated towns.
The worldviews offered in colleges are also available on the internet to the curious, but yes college is good.
I think a better exposure to different worldviews would be to visit 3rd world countries rather than the tony coffee and crepe shops of Paris.
3rd world countries show a person what the vast majority of humanity is living like in today's world.
3rd world countries show what it has been like for eons, until capitalism started to bring people out of poverty about 150 years ago or so.
After traveling to 3rd world countries, a person begins to realize how fortunate we are and to wonder what all the sniveling on our society is about.
The first thing I notice when I return is how clean everything is. This is cultural and doesn't exist in most of the world.
The last thing I want to do when I return to this country is to fundamentally change it. Slow cautious steps to make better, yeah.
That's how the checks and balances of our system work.
Cheers
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:07am PT
dirtbag posted
Anyway, Sanders is in a tough position. Denying it throws his campaign into the pig pen, but not saying anything means that the media will start a "Bernie didn't deny it" narrative. And, there are the lessons from the Kerry campaign where kerry refused to respond to the swift boat lies, which eventually hurt him badly.

Trump is basically a swift boat ad come to life and running for president. If you spend all your time denying the things that Trump says you're going to spend your whole campaign doing it.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:09am PT
"FOUND AT TRUMP RALLY! If only #democrats could read!"

Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:17am PT
Many reasons for the weak job numbers and those reasons are rooted in the failed philosophies of both the left and right.

Since there have been no "left" policies implemented in this country since the 1930s, and those have been eliminated for all practical purposes over the last 40 years, would it be safe to say it's the failed philosophy of the "right"?
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:31am PT
From nah000's link:
The Democrats are playing a very dangerous game by anointing Hillary Clinton as their presidential candidate. She epitomizes the double-dealing of the college-educated elites, those who speak the feel-your-pain language of ordinary men and women, who hold up the bible of political correctness, while selling out the poor and the working class to corporate power.

Spot on.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:38am PT
That's true hddj. I am not sure how or if campaigns should respond, or when.

The problem with this attack by trump, is that it feeds into a suspicion that sanders will return the country to the 60s when left wingers in the US and abroad attempted to overthrow apple pie and mom and pop Americana and replace it with communism, the civil rights movement, or other weird left wing ideals. In other words, it's red baiting, which is sanders Achilles heel. If he says nothing, the narrative builds. But acknowledging it is a waste of time. What to do? I don't think there are any easy answers.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:41am PT
Happygirrl2 & Norton- Really?

Yes, get a degree! It's the foundation of modern achievement, in most cases.

However; Critical thinking in it's purist form, although uncommon, could be without any form of convention or prepackaged concepts- and historically, has challenge those to the core.

I hear mostly partisan parroting and hints of class distiction when you utter such nonsense.

Have you taken a look at man's achievements through antiquity and determined that we are currently, in a golden age of thought because of accredited college diplomas?

Sorry, this has gone in the weeds- Reflexively discrediting persons that have opposing view points in lieu of debating their actual view points, exhibits a lazy intellectual process and lack of critical thinking- fact. The results are entrenched factions.

The Trump supporter exists and acts for a reason- what is it? Should we blindly insult him/her?

That said- Folks, please get a degree if at all possible! But if you don't, I will listen to you intently because I may learn something.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:45am PT
Gary posted
The Democrats are playing a very dangerous game by anointing Hillary Clinton as their presidential candidate. She epitomizes the double-dealing of the college-educated elites, those who speak the feel-your-pain language of ordinary men and women, who hold up the bible of political correctness, while selling out the poor and the working class to corporate power.

Powerfully worded but completely ignores the reality of the Presidency. Clinton epitomizes the complexities of what it means to lead a country full of people with sharply divided views on what our problems are and how to fix them. She has been far more measured in her promises of what is possible which pisses of the dreamers on the left. The statement also completely overlooks the danger that Sanders, Cruz and Trump risk in continuing to promise completely undeliverable policy platforms. Sanders supporters are literally electing someone who can say things that will make them feel good but then accomplish very little while putting someone in charge with little interest or experience in dealing with many of the challenges of the Presidency.

dirt posted
What to do? I don't think there are any easy answers.

I think both Sanders and Clinton's only winning play is to stay above the fray, denounce Trump in strong terms but then appeal to something better. They aren't competing for the frothing right like the Republicans are so they don't have to risk alienating them.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:46am PT
the good thing is that TRUMP supporters can go disrupt a BERN rally and nothing will happen because the BERN is a nobody to the Secret service..

So are you promoting violence?

You don't seem very smart.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:50am PT
So are you promoting violence?

You don't seem very smart.


Brandon-
keep ur east coast snobbery to urself duuuuude!


Edit:

That Big golden wall is coming closer and looking better every day!
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:52am PT
Hddj-good post about over promising.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:54am PT
Whether you're a Trump ball cupper or ready to cut them off, this is an interesting read...

As stated in the article, this is in no way an endorsement of Trump. Although he may have stumbled on the Nuke Triad question, according to this article, Trump was discussing the problem of Warhead Fratricide and dense-pack ICBM strategy back in the late 1980s...

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/03/07/donald-trump-is-an-idiot-savant-on-nuclear-policy/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New%20Campaign&utm_term=%2AEditors%20Picks

Know thine enemy
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 14, 2016 - 09:59am PT
So are you promoting violence, Pyro?

East coast snobbery, LOL.
YosemiteSteve

Trad climber
CA
Mar 14, 2016 - 10:08am PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 10:11am PT
pyro, as his name suggests, is a bomb thrower. I wouldn't get too wrapped up about it. Thanks for replacing those bolts, pyro!

Norton posted
who is making the "politically correct" , vague and sweeping generalization by labeling college education as "elite" while at the same time stating a personal opinion that Mrs Clinton "sells out the working class to corporate power"

Point taken. I think the point the author was trying to make was that saying politically correct things is to polish one's political image not take political action. There is certainly some truth to that.



*edit*




This is the magic of having young people on your side. Your propaganda is way, way better.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 14, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
popped up in my twitter. No idea if it's a 'shop or not

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 14, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Presidential BOWLS!
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 14, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/272923-authorities-consider-charging-trump-with-inciting

Thanks for that GIF HDDJ - that's most excellent.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 14, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
pyros' claims to be a some kind of high-efficiency production machine

GCF
That right dude!
Streamlining High speed Manufacturing is soo kool it's how I make a living..
i'm a PQMS.

edit notice how that last paragraph almost looks like a side way middle finger flip... lol


dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
Interesting, nature, but I doubt anything will happen.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 14, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
but I doubt anything will happen.

oh but dirtbag why would you say that????
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
No, it's a schlong, not a finger.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
Pyro, just guessing, but he has too much money and fame to be convicted.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 14, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
Here's a pretty viable scenario where Trump is denied the nomination at the convention, it goes to Cruz - and he runs as a 3rd-party candidate.

Republicans have a choice between bad and awful when it comes to Donald Trump

Establishment Republicans are growing increasingly confident of two things: 1) That Donald Trump won't be able to get to the 1,237 delegates he needs to formally claim the Republican presidential nomination, and 2) that Trump, after a weekend in which he refused to condemn the increasing violence at and around his campaign rallies, can't win a majority of delegates in an open or brokered convention situation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/14/republicans-have-a-choice-between-bad-and-awful-when-it-comes-to-donald-trump/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_fix-convention-1230p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 02:10pm PT


Under North Carolina law, a riot is “a public disturbance involving an assemblage of three or more persons which by disorderly and violent conduct, or the imminent threat of disorderly and violent conduct, results in injury or damage to persons or property or creates a clear and present danger of injury or damage to persons or property.”

The charge of “inciting a riot” is a misdemeanor, defined this way: “Any person who willfully incites or urges another to engage in a riot, so that as a result of such inciting or urging a riot occurs or a clear and present danger of a riot is created.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/after-punching-incident-nc-sheriff-ponders-inciting-a-riot-charge-against-trump/2016/03/14/2f300ec6-ea13-11e5-bc08-3e03a5b41910_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_cumberland-4pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Mar 14, 2016 - 02:38pm PT
HDDJ: re: I would be more impressed if the left would stop citing "corporate profits" like they are a universally bad thing.

if you're referring to the hedges' piece in particular, than i must have missed that type of a universally negative sentiment.

otoh, as a generalized critique of much of the left i'd have to agree. i often think that much of the [far] left needs a reminder regarding basic math and what any large number divided by 320 million people actually is. ie. it seems to me that there is often this idea, that if only the rich paid their "fair" share everybody would be "rich" and all collective hopes and dreams would be fulfilled when this is of course just not the case... even someone like bill gates' net worth of roughly $80 billion completely liquidated and distributed only works out to $250 per u.s. citizen.

that said, at the same time the right could probably use a little reminder regarding what it means to be part of an interdependent human species. ie. when you have giant too big to fail banks that fUck over the general populace and rather than their management getting jail time they get bailed out by the general populace, when average ceo pay to average worker pay increases from 24X in 1965 to 262X in 2005, and when the top 1% share of the wealth increases from roughly 24% in 1976 to 42% in 2012 all while hourly compensation effectively flatlines relative to the continued uptrack of productivity after about 1976 [to name but a few] the mass of humans not having their boats floated by the tide that keeps raising the yachts higher and higher, are going to get a little pissed...

and understandably so, methinks.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Mar 14, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
...that if only the rich paid their "fair" share everybody would be "rich" and all collective hopes and dreams would be fulfilled...

Speaking for myself:
...that if only the rich took their "fair" share everybody would be "rich" and all collective hopes and dreams would be fulfilled...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 14, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
New Big Money GOP ad against Trump
I just saw it on CNN
looks like war

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/women-anti-trump-ad-220727
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
Too late for war--they blew it.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 14, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
I was at The Mexican Market today.

No Trump piñatas - I looked. But you can get Batman, Charlie Brown, Bart Simpson, and Mickey Mouse piñatas, for which I'm sure all the appropriate license fees have been paid.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 14, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
No Obama pinata either?

Damn mexicans
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 14, 2016 - 08:03pm PT
The Donald has turned American Politics into a World Wide Wrestling match


http://www.salon.com/2015/08/17/donald_trump_professional_wrestler_how_the_billionaire_body_slammed_gop_politics_and_why_it_matters/
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 14, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 14, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
Salon is an Enquirer wannabe. Shame for reading it. Shame for linking to it.

It will digitize anything for click numbers.

Salon is the scum of online journalism.

Neither the left nor liberals do themselves any favors by referring to it.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 14, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
Now you did it HFCS
now it will get 10x more clicks
they want the scum of the earth, haven't you figured that out yet!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 15, 2016 - 05:27am PT
It worked on you, what does that say.....
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 15, 2016 - 07:27am PT

Hon. Don Gerard ‏@DonGerard Mar 13
Rally aftermath - @realDonaldTrump in Bloomington vs. @BernieSanders in Champaign #EveryPictureTellsAStory
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 07:28am PT
Salon, like Buzzfeed, actually has some decent journalism but you have to weed out the garbage. It's the unfortunate state of online news.




Ugh...the garbage pictures are so stupid. People were making these back during the Tea Party vs OWS days. Please don't propagate this stuff.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 15, 2016 - 07:35am PT
Wait, The Bern's peeps eat McDonalds?
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 15, 2016 - 07:44am PT
on. Don Gerard ‏@DonGerard Mar 13
Rally aftermath - @realDonaldTrump in Bloomington vs. @BernieSanders in Champaign #EveryPictureTellsAStory

Grasping at straws John.
A sure sign of a desperate opposition.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:28am PT
Building that wall may not be so bad after all. It might keep folks out of the U.S. legal system.

It was in the Seattle case that Jack H. Weil, a longtime immigration judge who is responsible for training other judges, made his unconventional assertions about children. “I’ve taught immigration law literally to 3-year-olds and 4-year-olds,” Weil said in a deposition. “It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of patience. They get it. It’s not the most efficient, but it can be done.” He then repeated his claim twice during the deposition.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:38am PT
The American people are sick & tired of ALL TALK - NO ACTION POLITICIANS! While they pull out all stops to stop the ‪#‎TrumpTrain‬- what they do not get-- is Americans are onto their act. Thank you for your support. TOGETHER - WE WILL MAKE AMERICA SAFE & GREAT AGAIN!

Donald Trump
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:40am PT
Wait, The Bern's peeps eat McDonalds?

I think you just flunked the quiz, Reilly.



The American people are sick & tired of ALL TALK - NO ACTION POLITICIANS!

That's why they should vote all the obstructionist Republicans out.

Repeat after me: Supreme Court Vote.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:40am PT
The American people are sick & tired of ALL TALK - NO ACTION POLITICIANS! While they pull out all stops to stop the ‪#‎TrumpTrain‬- what they do not get-- is Americans are onto their act. Thank you for your support. TOGETHER - WE WILL MAKE AMERICA SAFE & GREAT AGAIN!


Says a loudmouthed politician, with several failed
businesses, who has accomplished nothing so far...
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
There's no indication HCFS clicked on the Salon link. You're a genuine idiot.

Just who is this Ricky?

He seems like a bad man? A very very bad man. Bad.

I've got my eye on you now, Ricky.

You write like Blublcr. Ricky = Blublcr?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 15, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
From my observation, the conservative and liberal groups expressing frustration with "all talk, no action politicians" have a bad habit of equating something with nothing, in their all-or-nothing world. Thus, unless they can get everything they want, they act as if they got nothing. To listen to them, neither Obama nor Congress has accomplished anything.

While we have divided control of the branches of government, what do you expect, particularly when both parties seem dominated by their respective fringes? Oh well, the Trump supporters can take heart. Unless Hillary gets indicted during the campaign, which will not happen under this administration, his nomination (and, really, his mere candidacy, even if the majority of Republicans who don't support his nomination prevail) guarantees her election as well as the election of a Senate dominated by Democrats. That should help her take action. It may be the opposite of the action they wanted, but hey, you want action, you get action.

John
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 15, 2016 - 02:23pm PT
Oh well, the Trump supporters can take heart. Unless Hillary gets indicted during the campaign, which will not happen under this administration, his nomination ... guarantees her election as well as the election of a Senate dominated by Democrats. That should help her take action.

if this is the case then that old crotch wont be as bad as the Obama.. I can handle 4 more years of liberal run white house..


lots of momentum for Donald along with Hillary..
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 15, 2016 - 02:37pm PT
Unless Hillary gets indicted during the campaign, which will not happen under this administration,

Here we go again with the rightwing baloney..."Well, she got away with it again because she's got people on the inside pulling strings".

I just CAN'T be that exhaustive investigations into these myriad fake scandals never turn up ANYTHING. It's got to be rigged!

It amazes me how otherwise intelligent people buy this silly line of reasoning.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
Says a loudmouthed reality TV Star, with several failed
businesses, who has accomplished nothing so far...

fixed it
Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 02:43pm PT
It amazes me how otherwise intelligent people buy this silly line of reasoning.

from their line of "reasoning", I would NOT conclude otherwise intelligent
dirtbag

climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
The hacktivist group "Anonymous" has just declared war on Donald Trump.

http://www.yahoo.com/style/anonymous-just-declared-war-donald-154500802.html


I would knott want to be on their bad side.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Mar 15, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 15, 2016 - 03:47pm PT
It's the Trump voters who are to blame. Maybe what's-his-name is right, Americans (a lot of them) are stupid.

In short, you can blame the often spineless RNC, the other candidates, the media and a dozen other factors, but in the end the GOP voters (or the voters choosing to cast ballots in the primary contests) repeatedly have chosen Trump — after hearing his rhetoric and getting a full look at his ethical and intellectual shortcomings. No, it’s not a majority of the GOP who are embracing him, but it sure is a healthy plurality of voters. You want someone to blame for the GOP’s dilemma: Blame the voters.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/03/15/blame-the-voters-for-choosing-trump/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-b%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 15, 2016 - 04:10pm PT
The Trump University scandal is just the tip of the Trump fraud iceberg. The $30,000 he scammed from those people is chump change.

The Democrats are waiting until the general election to throw open the door of the massive Trump skeleton closet, and show the public just what the Art of the Deal means to a ravenous cannibal like Trump.

Just one example:


Trump put his name and his big mouth (and nothing else) behind a condominium project in Florida (Tampa?) that went bust. People put their life savings down as deposits on units, and then lost it all. Many of those who lost money said they entered into the deal based on what they thought was Trump's reputation for excellence, and for getting things done.

Wrong.

Trump's response to the people who had been conned by Trump and ripped off by the failed "Trump project" was:

A - since the condos would have had lower resale value than expected (had they been completed) the people who lost their life savings "came out ahead". Trump said that they were "lucky" because if the condos had been completed and people moved in, those people would have "lost even more money".

B - He only licensed his name and big mouth to the project, and was not involved in any other way. He refused to return any of the money he received, which had been paid out of the deposits. In characteristic Trump fashion, he utterly and completely failed to back up his big mouth.



The failed condo project in Florida was not an isolated incident. There was a similar "Trump" scam project in Panama.

Because Trump is such a toxic risk for bankers and investors, he is largely out of the development business. Instead, he licenses his name for use on other projects that he has no financial, planning or other interest in, whatsoever.

He's done this all over the world.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Mar 15, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
I had a client who made a $100k investment in some Trump condos in Baja. That went BK. I continue to be amazed that the Republican base backing this guy seem wilfully blind to his track record.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
I would love to see a contested republican convention. Fun times!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 15, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 04:32pm PT

Here, a little comic relief this anxious evening...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FHZ-A9-RdE
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 15, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
For the record JEleazarian only said Hillary wouldn't be indicted by this administration. He didn't say anything about her being guilty or not. The only negative inference you could make from that is that the Dems have each others backs even if they are guilty.

I wouldn't alienate John. He is a reasonable, balanced, and open minded. If you want to actually listen to someone on the other side and have an intelligent conversation he's a great source.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
So one anti-science fundamentalist down, a couple more to go.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 15, 2016 - 05:58pm PT
It is troubling to see so much support for a candidate, who if elected, would almost certainly be impeached, on any number of corruption related charges, and kicked out of office.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
To be clear, Jaybro, whom do you speak of?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 15, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
About every second or third President should be impeached. Just on general principles.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
Saying Hillary will be impeached for something pre-election is the same as saying Nixon will be impeached. It can never happen.

Nixon wasn't impeached and he was pardoned. Likewise, Hillary is pardoned already.

pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 15, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
It is troubling to see so much support for a candidate, who if elected, would almost certainly be impeached, on any number of corruption related charges, and kicked out of office.

Don't be troubled, she'll never get elected.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 15, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
you have to commit the crime while in office to be impeached, correct?

this is what i found so laughable when President Obama was being elected.

Anyway, get use to the the phrase "President Clinton". She's going to mop the floor with Drumpfsticks hair.

And it's great to see Drumpf got tons more electorate votes tonight. I'd hate to see him go into the convention w/o it already clinched. No telling with the desperate republicans would do.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
This is great irony!

The establishment has been getting this, not so desirable, plus size girl drunk and making false promises while knowing after an easy roll-around, they're outta there with no commitment.

They went to the bathroom for a second and when they came back, Trump was already in the bedroom humping.

SWOOPED!!!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
I think I'm gonna vote for Trump.

I don't want Cosmic to get mad at me

LOL LOL LOl!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
"She's going to mop the floor with Drumpfsticks hair." -Nature

Oh I love that imagery!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
This is interesting...

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 15, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
Moose...Cosmic only cares about 2 things...bacon and salt ...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 15, 2016 - 09:32pm PT
CoZmic won't vote for Trump. He'll come to his senses.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 15, 2016 - 11:25pm PT
CA is guaranteed to have all electoral votes go for the Dem. I wouldn't waste my vote on a Dem or Rep in CA unless an honest, not bought and paid for one came along, which I've never seen happen.

Hopefully there's a reasonable third party or independent moderate candidate this year. But I'd even vote for a green party or libertarian kook than continue to support a corrupt two party system. Both heavily influenced by the same big money donors. Both more and more driven by ideology and representing around only 50% of the citizens of this country.

The more votes that go to a third party or independent the more that idea will take hold. Especially with the Internet changing politics we may see a viable third party or independent start winning, and a loss of power for the two parties.

But that's just me.
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
Mar 15, 2016 - 11:44pm PT
Too bad no countries on earth accepts Americans as political refugee and I know Donny will start WW3
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 16, 2016 - 12:02am PT
Cosmic, Trump and Cruz have already made it painfully clear that if they saw you on the side of the road in need of a ride they'd both run over you and then back up and do again a couple of more times sure that you were either an illegal alien or a terrorist muslim. And getting a dirtbag, doper climber at by mistake - BONUS POINTS!!!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 16, 2016 - 05:59am PT
Ughh, don't wish that on Cosmic...but yeah, if they saw a tie-dyed dude they'd hit him, for sure. Professional disruptor.

I'm hoping the GOP puts up a more acceptable choice as an Independent so otherwise intelligent people don't have to make the clear mistake of voting for Donald.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 07:13am PT
Donald revoked the press pass of a reporter who wrote a critical piece about him. This wasn't the first time that happened.


http://www.vox.com/2016/3/16/11244370/donald-trump-campaign

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 16, 2016 - 07:23am PT
Republican party died last night...
TRUMP TRAIN ran em over..
Now the repubs will x out Trump the nominate P Ryan..
I smell an independent for trump which would show he really is serious..
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 07:58am PT
Yeah, I am. Throwing out reporters who don't kiss your ass shuts down critical coverage. It also is a part of a broader pattern of not respecting opposing views.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:48am PT
Obviously illegals.

And Benghazi!!!
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:58am PT

LOL Trip Gabriel

Trip, Sarah Palin's son?
looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Lassitude 33
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:34am PT
Sounds like Trip got it spot on, except Russ is much funnier in person.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 10:30am PT
Throwing out reporters who don't kiss your ass shuts down critical coverage. It also is a part of a broader pattern of not respecting opposing views.

Amen, but, sad to say, he's not alone. It takes a big person keep critics around. Trump, who seems to want to surround himself with yes men, shows how small he is.

I always thought the key to success was to surround yourself with people smarter than yourself. In Trump's case, that's a fairly low bar, but even that standard seems to threaten him.

John
Norton

Social climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 10:35am PT
John

your decision as a Republican but who to vote for

is being quietly, reluctantly but increasingly joined by many who I speak with
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 10:55am PT
Norton, I mentioned on the Politapocalypse thread that my lifelong best friend called last night to make sure he wasn't losing his sanity. His cause for concern was that he would vote for Hillary over Trump, even though he is quite a bit more conservative than I.

John
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 11:09am PT
John, I'm happy to see the Republican Party implode only because it has rejected pragmatism and has become more interested in obstructionism. "F*#k Obama" might be a good way to rally the partisans and get fundraising money in the short term, but it is not a sustainable governing principle. I hope a right party committed to governing replaces it, but the Republican Party is only beginning to understand the mess they've created.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 11:23am PT


Donald may well be the nominee again and again

The uncontrollable base does not at all appear to be
interested in winning or governing, but Father Knows Best
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Mar 16, 2016 - 11:23am PT
..the Republican Party is only beginning to understand the mess they've created.
I saw the writing on the wall 8-10 years ago and bailed from the GOP.

The modern Republicans are so ignorant and blind to reality that we will have a colony on Mars before the GOP light bulb starts to dimly illuminate again.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 11:27am PT
The Republican mess is huge and obvious. Like Trump. The Democratic mess is worse, it's just quiet and everyone is pretending it doesn't exist.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 16, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
So, when Drumpf gets the nomination, how do you suppose that'll affect the congressional races?

Things will probably get really strange, IMO.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
All this time I thought it was The Dong_old and maybe someone can tell me just what conservatives are, or plan to be, conserving.

1930 San Diego County




Norton

Social climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
Brandon,

the general consensus is that it could be very bad for the Republicans because
many people simply pick the party of the Presidential nominee they want, presumably
Hilary as Democrat and then check the box to vote for all the Democrats on the ballot to make voting easier, this down ballot voting could well swing the US Senate back to the Dems, some House seats, and likely as well state races such as governor

in short it could be really bad for the Repubs this November with Donald as nominee
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
The Republican mess is huge and obvious. Like Trump. The Democratic mess is worse, it's just quiet and everyone is pretending it doesn't exist.

I don't know, HDDJ. The Democrats have lived with a mess for so many decades, we expect it. In Will Rogers' words from the 1930's: "I am a member of no organized party. I am a Democrat."

More seriously, I think the Democrats got sufficiently burned by their flights of fancy that a majority appreciate the virtue of pragmatism. I don't see the same insistance on ideological purity by nearly the number of Democrats as I do of Republicans. Ironically, the support for Trump does not really encompass ideology, since Trump has a campaign remarkably free from any ideology except insult and outrage.

If I were optimistic, I'd hope for a large enough number of dissafected centrists to join the Democrats to make them a party of centrists, but I'm not ready to switch sides yet, so I can't imagine too many others are, either. Still, the long-term prospects for the country probably aren't really harmed if the extremists march to the oblivion they deserve.

John
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 16, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
Yeah Norton, that makes sense.

I guess I'm wondering about who Drumpf will embolden enough to run for a first term. All that divisive rhetoric seems sure to bring out a bunch of hateful crazies yelling loudly. Not that they will be elected, but some folks might show their true colors.

And yes, there are always loons running for elected office, I just predict a bumper crop this time around.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
I finally get it.
This election is like "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest".
Trump is the looney, Hillary is nurse Ratchet.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
John posted
More seriously, I think the Democrats got sufficiently burned by their flights of fancy that a majority appreciate the virtue of pragmatism. I don't see the same insistance on ideological purity by nearly the number of Democrats as I do of Republicans. Ironically, the support for Trump does not really encompass ideology, since Trump has a campaign remarkably free from any ideology except insult and outrage.

If I were optimistic, I'd hope for a large enough number of dissafected centrists to join the Democrats to make them a party of centrists, but I'm not ready to switch sides yet, so I can't imagine too many others are, either. Still, the long-term prospects for the country probably aren't really harmed if the extremists march to the oblivion they deserve.

The Democratic party has been the party of centrists since 1994. It's only the fevered mutterings of the madness of Republican propaganda that have people thinking otherwise. Democrats aren't as obviously insistent on ideology because it is the party of centrists. There are plenty of hard left liberals who get super mad about it all the time and they are all over my facebook feed (and this forum) complaining about Clinton. You don't see it because you aren't listening to them (and they don't have as much power).
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
HDDJ, I do see it, as well as those who complain about Obama being a closet conservative, because I have lots of facebook and other feeds from the left. While I'm not as convinced as you are that the Democrats are the party of centrists, I am convinced that the influence of Republicans' social and fiscal extremes has grown dramatically since the Republican high water mark in 1994. I get those feeds, too. You should see how many I've gotten over the last seven years complaining about how Republican congressional leadership "sold them out." They problem have no clue that I discount them because they weren't screaming ten years ago when the congress and president were both in Republican hands, but were spending like Democrats.

The Democrats' embrace of pragmatism, starting with the nomination of Bill Clinton in 1992, however, makes them more likely than the Republicans to take centrist positions in national elecitons. I emphasize "national," because the California Democrats, other than Feinstein and Jerry Brown," have gone hard left. I saw this coming 48 years ago, when the California Republican party ousted Tom Kuchel, a sitting Republican senator in the primary, thus allowing the Democrats to give us a very liberal Alan Cranston.

The Republican "establishment" remains centrist, but the recent rise of the insurgents that have taken over much of the party's grass roots, the Tea Party and now the Trumpers, are so intent on "purity" they should all be parties of one. Their views seem so insular, they have no clue that the damage they're doing to the center-right, which drives us farther and farther from many of the Party's nominees, merely strengthens the hand of the left.

John
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
Interesting possible development. From [url=" http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-establishment-republican-enter-presidential-race-convention/#ixzz436KJg1g1"] http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-establishment-republican-enter-presidential-race-convention/#ixzz436KJg1g1[/url]

Former House Speaker John Boehner Wednesday endorsed current House Speaker Paul Ryan to be the Republican presidential nominee.

At the Republican convention, “anybody can be nominated,” Boehner said at a conference in Boca Raton, Fla.

“If we don’t have a nominee who can win on the first ballot, I’m for none of the above,” Boehner said. “They all had a chance to win. None of them won. So I’m for none of the above. I’m for Paul Ryan to be our nominee.”
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 16, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
Yes John, 1994 was a high point for republicans with the success of "Contract for America", huge success.



This is gonna comeback and bite them in the ass.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-republicans-supreme-court-nominee_us_56e98c18e4b065e2e3d81d08
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 16, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/gop-debate-cancelled-after-trump-says-he-won-t-attend-n540256?cid=sm_fb

what a wimp.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 16, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
It's a rare skill these days....knowing when to stop drilling after having struck oil.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 02:19pm PT
It is interesting that the GOP Senate and House basically created the Trumpenstein monster, and now they have lost control of it. I wonder if there are enough villagers left do drive him into the windmill and burn him up. Doesn't seem like it.

They are in a no-win situation (literally). If they don't get behind Trumpenstein, their base will split and they will have zero chance. If they get behind him, their chances of winning are only slightly better, because some republicans will still refuse to support him.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
Trump supporters, your man believes he doesn't need to consult anyone on foreign policy.


Now, we have a more definitive answer and it’s horrifying: “I’m speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain,” he said on Wednesday, also on “Morning Joe.”
“My primary consultant is myself and I have a good instinct for this stuff,” he added.

You're voting for a man with no foreign policy experience who believes he doesn't need any advisors, yet routinely gets basic foreign policy-related facts wrong.

But hey, he's gonna make America great again, because he's trump, and he says so.


http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/takingnote/2016/03/16/trumps-brain-and-u-s-foreign-policy/
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 16, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
Strump added "myself told me my hair looks great and don't listen to all the losers. Then myself said don't worry about your small pe...hands. Myself is a tremendously smart guy and we always agree."

"That me though, he's an egomaniac."
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 16, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
Therapists Confirm Trump's Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Concerned therapists break silence to warn the public

Posted Nov 13, 2015

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201511/therapists-confirm-trumps-narcissistic-personality-disorder

"That mental-health professionals are even willing to talk about Trump in the first place may attest to their deep concern about a Trump presidency" writes Henry Alford in a November 11 edition of Vanity Fair. His psychological profile Donald Trump Actually a Narcissist? Therapists Weigh In! (link is external)quotes a variety of clinicians who are confident that the billionaire's high profile and documented history of grandiose behavior makes the diagnosis obvious.

Following are some of their comments.

“Remarkably narcissistic,” said developmental psychologist Howard Gardner, a professor at Harvard Graduate School of Education.

“He’s so classic that I’m archiving video clips of him to use in workshops because there’s no better example of his characteristics,” said clinical psychologist George Simon, who conducts lectures and seminars on manipulative behavior. “Otherwise, I would have had to hire actors and write vignettes. He’s like a dream come true.”

“He’s very easy to diagnose,” said psychotherapist Charlotte Prozan. “In the first debate, he talked over people and was domineering. He’ll do anything to demean others, like tell Carly Fiorina he doesn’t like her looks. ‘You’re fired!’ would certainly come under lack of empathy. And he wants to deport immigrants, but [two of] his wives have been immigrants.

“There is help available, but it doesn’t look like the help people are used to. It’s not insight-oriented psychotherapy, because narcissists already have insight. They’re aware; the problem is, they don’t care. They know how you’d like them to act; the problem is, they’ve got a different set of rules."

Licensed clinical social worker Wendy Terrie Behary, the author of Disarming the Narcissist: Surviving and Thriving with the Self-Absorbed, said, “Narcissists are not necessarily liars, but they are notoriously uncomfortable with the truth." (The article notes that Trump positions himself as a possible savior to the economy despite the fact that four of his companies have declared bankruptcy.)

“Textbook narcissistic personality disorder,” echoed clinical psychologist Ben Michaelis. “This man is known for his golf courses, but, with due respect, who does he think works on these golf courses? Mr. Trump’s bullying nature—taunting Senator John McCain for being captured in Vietnam, or saying Jeb Bush has “low energy”—is in keeping with the narcissistic profile.

"Regardless of how you feel about John McCain, the man served—and suffered. To degrade people is really part of a cluster-B personality disorder: it’s antisocial and shows a lack of remorse for other people. The way to make it O.K. to attack someone verbally, psychologically, or physically is to lower them. That’s what he’s doing.

“He’s applying for the greatest job in the land, the greatest task of which is to serve, but there’s nothing about the man that is service-oriented. He’s only serving himself.”


Now I can see why Pyro loves him so much
Go Trump, he's the best at everything, right?
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Mar 16, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
I haven't read any of the above and I'm still confused about the Trump phenom..... but when both the right and the left establishment hate the man, fear the man even - I find it interesting.

Is he a rising fascist or is he just against the elite status quo?

Anyway, here's a discussion I found interesting, from RT. Yea, the Russians. ha. The only place I can find intelligent - and not corporate owned - conversation on these topics these days.

YMMV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kzcz_amy6s

[Click to View YouTube Video]
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 16, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
^^ I've been saying this since he started to run. Craig's post.. I thought this guy has got some kind of disorder. I googled narcissist disorder. Saw NPD and it fit him to a T.

That's funny the guy saving clips of him a textbook example. Lol.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 16, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
Trump -- Is he a rising fascist or is he just against the elite status quo?

Trick question. It's both.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 16, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
The GOP can take down "The Donald" in a week anytime before the convention by just finding some random law that Trump violated,
and this law is contrary to GOP principles....
create a huge media storm... manipulate the gullible Republican voters about how terrible Trump was for violated such law

and he's gone

It's too late for Trump to register as a Third Party Candidate
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 16, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
Seems Werner got a crush on Trump, no surprise there, both live in weird parallel universe.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 16, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
Trump is treating this campaign like it's the World Wide Wrestling Federation

He's low energy, is he sleeping?, he has a small penis, I wouldn't call her a bimbo, blood coming out of, he's weak, he can't fight, she's ugly, they can't cut it, they're stupid, dumb, they can't make the deals like I can

He has done Professional Wrestling as a business

He's the Big Bully Awesome Winner

I posted about this before
but moronic judgmental BS was ignited about the web site that I linked to,
Salon, which is just another normal information site BTW

Trump can't tell the difference between winning in Professional Wrestling and winning the POTUS,
It's all about winning, he finally found his match, the ultimate win to bag
He has to win, he always wins....
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
Werner posted

They all hate him because he's not in their political criminal club.

You sure about that? Trump's stated position is "I'm in the club, I know how it works, here let me tell you about it."
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 05:07pm PT
Trump on O'Reilly is a hoot.

lol
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 05:21pm PT
Trump is like Charles Manson. He's a psychopathic narcissist with delusions of divine rights and powers. He has brainwashed his minions into committing crimes of violence that they otherwise wouldn't have committed.

Trump is also like Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, in that he is a highly intelligent, evil genius who remains one step ahead of the law. The only reason the Unabomber was ever caught was he let his ego (manifesto) get the better of him.

With any luck, Trump's 10,000 psi ego will get the better of him, too, and soon.



Trump is denying that he ever promised to pay the legal bills for people who attack protesters at his rallies. Yet, there he is, right there, on camera, saying:

Knock the hell out of them. I will pay your legal fees. I promise. I promise.




Trump uses the following phrases to an astonishingly excessive degree when making his false statements:


I PROMISE
I SWEAR
I GUARANTEE IT
BELIEVE ME





Trump's campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, is a neo-Nazi "Niedermeyer" psycho right out of central casting.



This is the guy who physically assaulted a female reporter from the right-wing Breitbart website. Lewandowski denied it, and then later admitted it, but rationalized it because he "didn't recognize the reporter".

This imples that Lewandowski believes he would have been justified assaulting a different, more appropriate reporter, instead.

pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 16, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
The more I see what type of people are against Trump and the depths at which they will go to try and stop him, the more I realize he is the right choice for president.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
Wow, that's deep pud.

skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 05:52pm PT
If Trump wins, looks like Cory L. Will be the next chief of staff.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
^^^^bad idea although it has it's current appeal
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
Trump is like the boastful playground bully that you invite to your birthday party, because you want to be cool, like him. You figure that if you accept him as your friend, he will reciprocate, and not attack you.

But, once he gets inside your house, he turns on you. He eats all the cake, throws ice cream on the walls, and steals your birthday presents.




Trump has personally said that when he looks at himself now, compared to when he was in first grade, he doesn't really see any difference. He says he is the same person he was back then.

President Trump: a psychotic six-year old with nuclear weapons/

As a child, Trump was an uncontrollable, prep-school, rich-kid, entitled psycho-brat. He was a violent juvenile delinquent who would attack other children and even adults. He was committed to a reformatory for about five years, and loosed on the public because, at age 18, the juvenile facility was no longer appropriate for him.



Trump now claims his incarceration at the military-themed reformatory qualifies him as the "best military guy".

Here is a brief recap of the Trump Master Plan for making America great again:

BUILD THE MILITARY UP SO STRONG, NO OTHER NATION WILL MESS WITH US
TELL CHINA TO "PLAY NICE", OR ELSE WE'LL HIT THEM WITH A 45% IMPORT TARIFF
GO INTO THE MIDDLE EAST, AND TAKE THE OIL
KILL THE WIVES AND CHILDREN OF FOREIGN COMBATANTS
USE WATERBOARDING, TORTURE, AND "A LOT WORSE" TO GET PEOPLE TO SAY WHAT HE WANTS TO HEAR
REGISTER ALL MUSLIMS IN THE UNITED STATES
BAN THE ENTRY OF ALL MUSLIMS INTO THE UNITED STATES
BUILD AN ANCIENT ROMAN FORTRESS WALL TO SEAL OFF THE BORDER WITH MEXICO
PLUNDER A FOREIGN NATION (MEXICO) TO PAY FOR THE WALL
FORCIBLY REMOVE 10 MILLION PEOPLE FROM THE UNITED STATES
FORCIBLY REMOVE UNITED STATES CITIZENS (CHILDREN) FROM THE UNITED STATES
REPRESS FREE-SPEECH RIGHTS OF NEWSPAPERS AND CITIZENS, VIA FEAR OF EXPENSIVE LITIGATION



All that, and Trump hasn't even gotten his BONER on, yet.


Trump's CTE is going to get worse, not better, over time. And his power-crazed narcissism is going to get worse, not better, if he gains more power.



My sister used to raise sled dogs in Alaska (Wasilla, of Sarah Palin fame, whom she knows) and she relates that a female half-bred wolf is barely manageable and only if she is the lead dog, that controls the other, non-wolf dogs. A male half-breed, or a full-breed female wolf is difficult-to-impossible to control.

She says that a full-bred wolf can be raised from a puppy as a nice, fairly gentle house pet. But, once it reaches a certain age, it reverts to being a wild animal, and it can not be trusted. It will turn on its master, attacking and killing, for no apparent reason at all.

The same thing is true of raccoons and skunks raised from tiny babies as pets. Eventually, they revert to the call of the genes.



Trump is like a pet hybrid of wolf and skunk that has reverted to being a wild animal: malodorous, dangerous, and not to be trusted at all.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 16, 2016 - 06:05pm PT
Trump says that if he doesn't get the nomination, there will be riots. Not that he's inciting them or anything. . . . . . . .
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 16, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
The so called sane Republicans are picking Ted Cruz!
I might vote for him, he's a solid Evangelical Conservative, and that's all that's important,
being a far right wing Evangelical Neo-Con, con man, Fake Texan, Harvard elitist whose wife works for Goldman Sachs
He would make a fine President according to most of those that aren't supporting Trump

2nd in delegate and popular vote count

Will riots ensue if Ted Cruz gets the nod?
Or if he gets booted unfairly?


if he does get the nod, will the issue of him not being a Natural Born Citizen be a Problem?

This GOP has some major problems that need to be sorted out
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 16, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
"It's hard to believe that any intelligent adult, would vote for Donald Trump"

It is how they roll, the sh#t he spews out is based on emotions, not facts.

He is a liar, they know he lies but that is OK.


Classic Trump...“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending the best. They’re not sending you, they’re sending people that have lots of problems and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bring crime. They’re rapists… And some, I assume, are good people.”
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 16, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
It's the Authoritarian follower personality that will support someone like Trump through the thickest of hurdles

It's an emotional response to fear and promise

The more confidence he exhibits the higher his poll numbers go up
He's playing the "Confidence Game"
Google it for more info
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 16, 2016 - 06:38pm PT

It's the Authoritarian follower personality that will support someone like Trump through the thickest of hurdles

In other words, people who can't think for themselves.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
Ted Cruz has said that he believes the Bible (which version?) supersedes the U.S. Constitution, and that if there is a conflict, he would allow his interpretation of the Bible to prevail over the Constitution. For example, if the Constitution says equal rights under law, but the Bible says to put homosexuals to death, well, Ted Cruz IS from Texas . . . . . . the death penalty capital of America.



Ted Cruz says that when he is President, the Bible will be the Constitution/


Ted Cruz might have been merely pandering to his core base of religious fanatics. Maybe he has no intention of disregarding his legal training and experience, in favor of a book that has been translated and copied and interpreted and edited and rewritten so many times, over the past several thousand years, as to be mythological nonsense.

Ted Cruz claims he is not a liar (which can't be determined from his statement, you will note). So, if we take Ted Cruz at his word, then what he is proposing not only disqualifies him to be President, but also marks him as a traitor.



Set aside, for the moment, the oath of office that would require a President Cruz to defend and uphold the Constitution, regardless of what his Bible says.


What Ted Cruz is saying is that he is a religious fanatic, who puts an ecclesiastic super-value on his holy book, "The Word of God", and that he intends to rule the nation according to the rules of the holy book, which has legal power over the nation's constitution.

This is exactly what the Muslim sharia-law jihadists are seeking to establish in Iraq, Syria, Nigeria, Yemen, etc.




The only difference is Ted Cruz bought his Christian holy book from a store that is across the street from a store that sells the Muslim holy book.

Lurkingtard

climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 16, 2016 - 06:58pm PT
With all the bad news about Cruz,
I guess Pud must be in quite a dilemma, which one do the majority of people hate the most, he has to make sure he gets the right candidate that is hated the most, because that's the best using his criteria

The President that is hated the most. Yea...That's the goal of the right wing know nothings
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 16, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
^^^^Lol
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 16, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
Tradhog, seems you fit right in..http://www.inquisitr.com/2610326/donald-trump-supporters-mostly-uneducated-new-poll-finds/
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
I'm going to defend Trump here, in a sense.

I think Trump is absolutely the wrong person to be President.

But, he has exhibited a capability for managing projects that can be admired, at least when he is not stomping Trump all over little people to get what he wants. Trump is the archetypical "mixed bag", that is best dealt with by allowing his good traits, while suppressing the bad.

Trump would probably make a good aide to a President. If he were assigned a specific task, he could effectively carry it out. He shouldn't be trusted with the budget, but could effectively deal with the logistics. Something like that.





Trump is like a well-inbred race horse, whose sire and dam were close relatives, and who exhibits both an incredible capability, but also a somewhat dangerous crazy streak.

A skillful trainer and jockey, with proper care, could groom the crazy race horse and control the wildness. Trump, a human Secretariat, could easily win the Triple Crown.

But, you wouldn't want a crazy racehorse running the show. You wouldn't just cut him loose on the track without a rider.

And, unless you are Caligula, you wouldn't want Trump to hold a high political position of influence in the government.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 16, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
$10 Trillion Dollar Man.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 16, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
For $10 Trillion Dollars, I expected more honestly.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 16, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
You thinking they might have gone for $15 trill if they worked together?

You might be right. But I'm sure we can continue on this path indefinitely. Especially if we really start to put the screws to the 1% ers.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
I wonder what happened in 2008? Must have been important to spend all that money on.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:03pm PT
Hmmm, I don't know much about graphs and stuff, but that...like...doesn't look good.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
Finally! Something Obama did better than any other president!!! Oh, wait. Nevermind. <sad face>

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
The more I see what type of people are against Trump and the depths at which they will go to try and stop him, the more I realize he is the right choice for president.

Yeah 80% of Americans are wrong. And the 20% who are okay with supporting a demagogue are right. Got it.

pud I used to think you had a decent head on your shoulders. Now I'm not so sure.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
And of course Ted Cruz is known as the "most hated man in the US Senate."

Vote for him & you are voting for a man who says he not only talks to God, but that God talks to him.

Historically, leaders who claim they converse with God have done incredible evil to our world.

Cruz has been eager to accept support from preachers who are somewhat more crazy than him.

Ted Cruz Embraces Armageddon Pastor Who Denounces Gay and Jewish People
http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/ted-cruz-embraces-armageddon-pastor-who-denounces-gays-and-jews
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
Pretty sure we spent it all on freedom. And liberty. Shoulda spent more it was a good deal.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
I didn't vote for Obama but those graphs clearly show Bush left a huge mess, the worst recession since the great depression, right when Obama took office. And Obama has slowly got us back to normal. Hell it looks like Obama added less national debt even though Bush left at the beginning of the great recession and Obama's years were right through the thick of it. And in your mind those graphs are supposed to show how bad Obama was right? lol.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
Just in case anyone is paying attention. This graph shows that just since Obama has taken office, the public debt has gone from around 60 percent of GDP to more than 100 percent of GDP.

What does that mean? That means that our debt is now equal to our total economic production.

Oh yeah, I love me some Obeezy.

Norton

Social climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:12pm PT

again, how old are you, Escopeta and what is the level of your education?

seriously, I have a bet with someone and I would like to collect
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
I'll let the duck respond on my behalf.....
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:19pm PT

The basic entry level credential for anyone seeking public office should be a law degree.

Not all law degrees result in lawyers but at least the recipients have an educated foundation in civic and criminal logic.




Both Hoover and Carter were engineers by training, not lawyers.

They both took office under conditions left to them by an outgoing President. I don't know enough about Hoover to know if he was a doofus, but history has blamed him, personally, for the Great Depression, which is really not very accurate, at all.


When people deride Carter's Presidency, they are ignoring that the problems that he inherited, and got worse, were passed on to him by Richard Nixon. There were uncontrollable factors (e.g. Saudi oil embargo: the sequel) that also contributed.

Most of Carter's inability to get things done was an intractable Congress. Carter was a Washington outsider, and he had the away-field disadvantage. If Carter had been a lawyer, it probably wouldn't have made any difference.



The problem is that the Empire has become top-heavy, and is toppling. What is required is a return to the Good Old Days:

A Co-Presidency, with Hillary-Billary in D.C., and Bernie whooping ass on Wall Street.


Later, of course, a tetrarchy (four presidents) will be needed. But, not just yet.


pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
Yes...

It's Obama's fault...




Everything is...

That's Ur response locker?
damn u should just hang yourself!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:26pm PT
Hillary will fix it.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
Escopeta...Channeling Werner here...You are a stoopid American...Stop drooling the Limbaugh Kool Aid...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:33pm PT
RJ,

Rush Limbaugh is a jackass.

Your anti-republican rhetoric doesn't work on me. Obama is a disaster, just like his predecessors. Regardless of whether his leg-humpers on here would like to think otherwise.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
pud I used to think you had a decent head on your shoulders. Now I'm not so sure.

People that don't think like you are wrong. Got it.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
Pud, and pyro must be joined at the hip. Two peas in a pud, so to speak.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-lies-gaslighting_us_56e95d21e4b065e2e3d7ee82
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 16, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
"Just in case anyone is paying attention. This graph shows that just since Obama has taken office, the public debt has gone from around 60 percent of GDP to more than 100 percent of GDP."


What is your point??

Percentage wise Obama increased the debt by about 60 percent, where as Reagan was around 190 percent increase.


But don't let facts get in the way of your emotions.




dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
^^^Exactly.^^^
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:18pm PT
Locker...they live in a emotional world, facts mean little to nothing to them.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:22pm PT
No internet
No it all
Knowmean?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:23pm PT
People that don't think like you are wrong. Got it.

I didn't say that, but it's telling that that's what you thought I said.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
Cosmic...I rescind the bacon offer...!
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:25pm PT
The president might have nominated Donald Trump for the Supreme Court if he had a bit more of a sense of humor. But then he'd be going along with the present vein of congress, making a mockery of our system of government.

But then my view for a long time has been the humans will be failed species and will extinct themselves in short order, and the rest of life on earth will recover in a few thousand years.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:30pm PT
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:37pm PT
Anyway it's pretty beleaguering to hear policiticians tell us about all their religious convictions as if the majority of Americans believe that for one minute the candidates are some kind of devout followers of whatever brand of faith they proclaim.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:37pm PT
Bumped
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:39pm PT
Spouting religious beliefs while running for office should be a disqualifier.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:40pm PT
"But then my view for a long time has been the humans will be failed species and will extinct themselves in short order, and the rest of life on earth will recover in a few thousand years."


I don't think it would even take that long. The clock is ticking fast for us, the earth still has 4.5 billion years to go.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:42pm PT
We the undersigned, members of the Republican national security community, represent a broad spectrum of opinion on America’s role in the world and what is necessary to keep us safe and prosperous. We have disagreed with one another on many issues, including the Iraq war and intervention in Syria. But we are united in our opposition to a Donald Trump presidency. Recognizing as we do, the conditions in American politics that have contributed to his popularity, we nonetheless are obligated to state our core objections clearly:

His vision of American influence and power in the world is wildly inconsistent and unmoored in principle. He swings from isolationism to military adventurism within the space of one sentence.

His advocacy for aggressively waging trade wars is a recipe for economic disaster in a globally connected world.

His embrace of the expansive use of torture is inexcusable.

His hateful, anti-Muslim rhetoric undercuts the seriousness of combating Islamic radicalism by alienating partners in the Islamic world making significant contributions to the effort. Furthermore, it endangers the safety and Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of American Muslims.

Controlling our border and preventing illegal immigration is a serious issue, but his insistence that Mexico will fund a wall on the southern border inflames unhelpful passions, and rests on an utter misreading of, and contempt for, our southern neighbor.

Similarly, his insistence that close allies such as Japan must pay vast sums for protection is the sentiment of a racketeer, not the leader of the alliances that have served us so well since World War II.

His admiration for foreign dictators such as Vladimir Putin is unacceptable for the leader of the world’s greatest democracy.

He is fundamentally dishonest. Evidence of this includes his attempts to deny positions he has unquestionably taken in the past, including on the 2003 Iraq war and the 2011 Libyan conflict. We accept that views evolve over time, but this is simply misrepresentation.

His equation of business acumen with foreign policy experience is false. Not all lethal conflicts can be resolved as a real estate deal might, and there is no recourse to bankruptcy court in international affairs.

Mr. Trump’s own statements lead us to conclude that as president, he would use the authority of his office to act in ways that make America less safe, and which would diminish our standing in the world. Furthermore, his expansive view of how presidential power should be wielded against his detractors poses a distinct threat to civil liberty in the United States. Therefore, as committed and loyal Republicans, we are unable to support a Party ticket with Mr. Trump at its head. We commit ourselves to working energetically to prevent the election of someone so utterly unfitted to the office.



Ken Adelman
David Adesnik
Michael Auslin
Mike Baker
Christopher Barton
Kevin W. Billings
Robert D. Blackwill
Daniel A. Blumenthal
Max Boot
Ellen Bork
Anna Borshchevskaya
Joseph A. Bosco
Michael Chertoff
Patrick Chovanec
James Clad
Eliot A. Cohen
Gus Coldebella
Carrie Cordero
Michael Coulter
Chester A. Crocker
Patrick M. Cronin
Seth Cropsey
Tom Donnelly
Daniel Drezner
Colin Dueck
Eric Edelman
Joseph Esposito
Charles Fairbanks
Richard A. Falkenrath
Peter D. Feaver
Niall Ferguson
Richard Fontaine
Aaron Friedberg
Dan Gabriel
Greg Garcia
Jana Chapman Gates
Jeffrey Gedmin
Reuel Marc Gerecht
James K. Glassman
David Gordon
Christopher J. Griffin
Mary R. Habeck
Paul Haenle
Melinda Haring
Robert Hastings
Rebeccah Heinrichs
Francis Q. Hoang
Jeffrey W. Hornung
William C. Inboden
Jamil N. Jaffer
Ash Jain
Marc C. Johnson
Myriah Jordan
Robert G. Joseph
Tim Kane
Kate Kidder
Robert Kagan
Rep. Jim Kolbe
David Kramer
Stephen Krasner

Matthew Kroenig
Frank Lavin
Philip I. Levy
Philip Lohaus
Mary Beth Long
Peter Mansoor
John Maurer
Matthew McCabe
Bryan McGrath
Richard G. Miles
Paul D. Miller
Charles Morrison
Michael B. Mukasey
Scott W. Muller
Lester Munson
Andrew S. Natsios
Michael Noonan
John Noonan
Roger F. Noriega
Stephen E. Ockenden
Robert T. Osterhaler
Mackubin T. Owens
Daniel Pipes
Everett Pyatt
Martha T. Rainville
Stephen Rodriguez
Marc A. Ross
Nicholas Rostow
Michael Rubin
Daniel F. Runde
Benjamin Runkle
Richard L. Russell
Andrew Sagor
Kori Schake
Randy Scheunemann
Gary J. Schmitt
Gabriel Schoenfeld
Russell Seitz
Kalev I. Sepp
Vance Serchuk
David R. Shedd
Gary Shiffman
Kristen Silverberg
Michael Singh
Ray Takeyh
Jeremy Teigen
William H. Tobey
Frances F. Townsend
Jan Van Tol
Daniel Vajdich
Ruth Wedgwood
Albert Wolf
Julie Wood
Dov S. Zakheim
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:43pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^
That's the first thing of merit I've heard from real republicans in a long, long time.

The fact that nobody can get elected president without claiming to have a religious faith just proves the unevolved puritanical embarrassing mental-midgetization of America.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:50pm PT
Obama is a disaster,

Again I didn't vote for him and he's to the left of me but saying he's a disaster just identifies you as a hopeless partisan. He came into office at the start of the worst recession in decades with a republican congress determined from day one to undermine him and still had many accomplishments. E.g. Helped keep us out of another depression which was a real possibility. Helped Save the auto industry, helped bring unemployment down to 5%.

He has his hits and misses but here's a pretty unbiased look at his numbers good and bad.

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/01/obamas-numbers-january-2016-update/

You could look at those numbers and say he was pretty good, or pretty bad, or okay, but again to say a disaster says a lot more about you than him.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:51pm PT
Bushman: sadly, according to this poll, only socialists are less desirable than atheists

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:51pm PT
Escopeta...Bought any $4.50 Budweisers lately...?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:55pm PT
I hold more optimism for the future. The long term trend is people are getting less bigoted, more scientifically literate, and more environmentally aware. I hope that the earth has enough resiliency to sustain us long enough for us to clean up our act. We will improve clean energy with new technology and that will help a huge amount.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:56pm PT
I'm descendant from eight Northern European nationalities,
one eight of which is Poll, yet no one takes my Poll seriously.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 16, 2016 - 09:58pm PT
The silver lining of that poll is that gays and lesbians are more desirable than evangelical Christians. But I suppose that's just based on the lesbian part. NTTAWWT.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 16, 2016 - 10:03pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 17, 2016 - 06:14am PT
The typical response to anyone that criticizes Obeezy. "Hey, he's only slightly worse than the other guys".....

Lol.

The fact that he sucks slightly less/more than his predecessor doesn't inspire me to get on the ball cupping bandwangon. But you go right ahead.

Don't worry, I'm still writing my big check to support him this year.

And Bob D'A, you probably ought to reevaluate your definition of the facts. Because unless you are questioning the validity of the data from The Federal Reserve or the Treasury, then you are the only one with emotional challenges.

I'm sure it sucks to have bad things said about your home boy. Sorry.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2016 - 06:25am PT
Good letter from the foreign policy folks. Sadly, trump supporters are completely impervious to facts, but it's still important to keep trying.

Anyway, nominating trump would probably be the all time biggest f*#k up of the Republican Party. (Not in a policy sense, but politically.) I can't think of anything worse. Even Goldwater's Nomination makes some sense in retrospect.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 17, 2016 - 06:33am PT
So locker that washington post article took the credit from bill clinton and his surplus.. they gove credit to technology boom in the 90's.. venture capitalist made clinton look good..

GCF go dig a ditch..

Locker after hammering 20 bolts yhat day the jim bridwell hammer gets heavy.. contributing to ASCA is good for climbers go climb those slabs on arches apron..
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 17, 2016 - 06:50am PT
What is your point??

Percentage wise Obama increased the debt by about 60 percent, where as Reagan was around 190 percent increase.


But don't let facts get in the way of your emotions.

This statement can only be made by someone who is so completely lacking in fundamental arithmetic that its a miracle they make it through a normal day in today's society, or someone that is so blinded by their emotions and loyalty to a government that hands out mana from heaven that they will repeat a lie long enough to delude even themselves.

Or both. I'm guessing both.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Mar 17, 2016 - 06:53am PT
The typical response to anyone that criticizes Obeezy. "Hey, he's only slightly worse than the other guys".....

I've disliked a lot about Obama. However, looking at the current field of candidates, I'd vote for him in November if he was a candidate.

Trump
Cruz
Clinton
Sanders

Yep. Obama is preferable to any of them.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 17, 2016 - 06:55am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 17, 2016 - 07:43am PT
Our resident naysayer seems to be unable to assimilate the basis of facts
I'm been trying to not respond to him, because we all know it won't help his narrow ideological flawed mind
But I must

This statement can only be made by someone who is so completely lacking in fundamental arithmetic that its a miracle they make it through a normal day in today's society, or someone that is so blinded by their emotions and loyalty to a government that hands out mana from heaven that they will repeat a lie long enough to delude even themselves.
BLEB

The Congress own the economy and debt, not Obama
Bush and his Congress set up the system to increase the debt from the year 2000 on, and the Republican Congress has not done a thing to pay the debt down or stop the deficit spending

We all know a 1000 ways to fix the situation, they refuse to do it just to make Obama's admin not have any relief from their country damaging agenda.
We could have jobs programs, infrastructure rebuilding, free education, Single Payer Health care, higher taxes on the rich, no offshoring your riches, stop the austerity, cut the loopholes blah blah
All the Republicans do is increase spending on BS and cut crucial programs that help the economy, they are doing everything in their power to make things worse for the Country and Obama

So if you can't accept the facts of why the way things are, then I guess your diatribe above only applies to YOU.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 17, 2016 - 07:51am PT
Respect? Why?

IMO that's part of the problem. He's done nothing to earn that respect other than getting elected. It's a job and that's it.

I've never understood this odd reverence we're supposed to have for various politicians. Few, if any of them, deserve any kind of respect other than common decency, and there's many that don't even deserve that.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 17, 2016 - 07:57am PT
This statement can only be made by someone who is so completely lacking in fundamental arithmetic that its a miracle they make it through a normal day in today's society, or someone that is so blinded by their emotions and loyalty to a government that hands out mana from heaven that they will repeat a lie long enough to delude even themselves.

RE Craig Fry - it was a good guess apparently.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 17, 2016 - 08:02am PT
Yes
Keep deluding yourself all the while the Government you hate is handing out the mana you need to survive

Basically, w/o the Strong Government we have, things would be completely different and you would be praying that we could get a strong Government that would improve the hell hole that his country would be

Deluded that we could have the same thing w/o the Gov we have.
Pure delusion, a lack of a sense of reality, topped off with libertarian ideology and anger.

The facts are: Politics is important, the 2 sides are different.
Obama was not able to control the spending nor implement his policies (other than ObamaCare, and the Stimulus).
The Republican Congress is responsible for the mess we are in, and they have no intention to fix things. Fact
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 17, 2016 - 08:11am PT
Your emotions just own you don't they?

I know facts are hard for you to swallow, we can take them in smaller bites next time.

Sorry, but your guy turned out to be a d#@&%ebag. If it makes you feel any better, he's the second biggest d#@&%ebag in the last two presidencies so you've got that going for you.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 17, 2016 - 08:13am PT
Thanks for the response BLEB

I didn't notice emotions entering into the conversation, but if you insist.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 17, 2016 - 09:21am PT
On the brighter side...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/16/politics/michelle-obama-president-sxsw/?iid=ob_lockedrail_topeditorial&iref=obnetwork

As for who's backing Trump, it looks like all his critic's efforts to show his supporters as uneducated were simply WRONG.

http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=470715906&m=470715907

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/5-myths-about-trump-supporters-220158

Many people think that having a successful businessman heading our executive branch only makes sense.

I would find this debate constructive, around a real campfire.

Here, it comes down to name calling by folks I seriously doubt would say those things face to face.
Unbridled bravado behind a keyboard only shines a light on the weak and cowardly.
I think it is important to remember, if you wouldn't say it to someone face to face, it is dishonest to portray it online.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2016 - 09:30am PT
The republican party leaders are astonishingly weak kneed.

Yesterday, Trump warned there might be a riot at the convention if he has the most delegates yet does not get the nomination.

Why didn't the leadership strongly repudiate this? Granted, it is somewhat unclear if Trump was making a prediction or a warning, but as the likely nominee, Trump should've also stated that under no conditions should his followers resort to violence (that's what a leader would do). Yet he didn't do that.

So why didn't the republican leadership say something to protect themselves? Hello, Reince Priebis?!?! So what if trump gets offended and bolts and they lose the election, they are already on a losing path anyway. But at least stand up for your safety! They are cowards.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 17, 2016 - 09:38am PT
"Your emotions just own you don't they?

I know facts are hard for you to swallow, we can take them in smaller bites next time.

Sorry, but your guy turned out to be a d#@&%ebag. If it makes you feel any better, he's the second biggest d#@&%ebag in the last two presidencies so you've got that going for you."


Pot calling the kettle black...Not a fact in sight in the above post, just emotions, hilarious.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 17, 2016 - 10:26am PT
Many people think that having a successful businessman heading our executive branch only makes sense.

Negative. I am not interested in our country being run like a business.

That's exactly how we got to the road pirates and civil forfeiture situation we now face with our law enforcement retards.

I'd like to REDUCE the amount of revenue our government gets, not maximize it.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 17, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
I've disliked a lot about Obama. However, looking at the current field of candidates, I'd vote for him in November if he was a candidate.

Trump
Cruz
Clinton
Sanders

Yep. Obama is preferable to any of them.

I'm impressed EdwardT! I still wouldn't vote for Obama and would vote third party (because I don't want to contribute to a corrupt, no real choice, two party system), but I like to see that someone on the right can look at things objectively enough to see that Obama is better than Cruz and Trump. It gives me hope that the Republican party can turn things around and start putting forth more reasonable candidates at some point in the future.




As far as Obama's vs. Reagan's debt increase.
Raw numbers, lacking percentages, context or not adjusted for inflation or the size of the economy, are inherently misleading.
I guess it depends on if you factor GDP growth into it. If you just look at % increase in debt Reagan's was worse as stated. But if you incorporate GDP growth Obamas was worse with the influence of the recession.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 17, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
The country needs a benevolent dictator to clean up the trash that's accumulated over the centuries. Defund and destroy the CIA/FBI/MIC.... A fresh start. A do-over.

But instead we'll 'vote' for either a disingenuous clown or a war criminal for more of the same in either case.

We've still got a few more orbits around the bowl but it's getting close.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 17, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
The country needs a benevolent dictator to clean up the trash that's accumulated over the centuries.

I would certainly conclude that's the pitch we're hearing from Trump and, to a lesser but still significant extent, the other candidates. They all seem to think they can legislate without going through Congress. Sad to say, it's also something of the pitch from the bureaucrats' leaders appointed by, and under the supervision of, the current administration.

John
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 17, 2016 - 12:24pm PT
But instead we'll 'vote' for either a disingenuous clown or a war criminal for more of the same in either case.

Shoot! Cheney's running?? When did that happen?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 17, 2016 - 12:33pm PT
They all seem to think they can legislate without going through Congress.

Well, Congress is proving that it can't legislate, so somebody has to!

Remember, Republicans are asswipes who don't abide by the oath that they've taken to serve. Such a shame they have, through the MSM, fooled half the country into thinking they're governing.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 17, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
Cheney decided not to run right after Michelle Obama decided not to apparently. For f*#k's sake.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 17, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
Oh come on, ease up. Just teasing you a little.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 17, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
I still think Cheney might just be wearing Hillary's old face. Peel that sucker back...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 17, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
Naw, I'd recognize those cankles anywhere.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 17, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
North Carolina deputies have been schlonged for allowing a deranged Trumpite to an attack a protester. The deputies didn't do their job. Now, they're taking it in the tuchus.

Earlier, the Sherriff said that the local people had no problem with what his billy-bob goons did (didn't do) that day. Now, his tune has changed.

Apparently, the iPhone is mightier than the sword, these days.


NC deputies disciplined for failing to protect man who was attacked at a Trump rally



Trump's demented blatherings about how his rallies are Love Fests indicate how far from reality The Donald operates.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2016 - 02:23pm PT
Paul Ryan has criticized trump for making comments hinting at violence at the convention: good. This, after he previously scolded Trump for not disavowing the KKK.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/paul-ryan-trump-riot-220928

So why would he continue to back Trump if he's the nominee?
dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
Yeah, on the one hand...

But that loudmouth is going to sink the ship. Ryan must know this. So why buy a boarding pass?

I don't think Ryan is a brute or bigot. He seems pretty decent. But unless more leaders start to say, publicly, that trump does not represent their values, and state they oppose his nomination, the consequences to the republicans of Trump's nomination will be more severe, and he will definitely be the nominee.

Edit: on the other hand, screw them, they have it coming. It's their choice to continue eating sh#t.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 17, 2016 - 02:55pm PT
More whistling past the graveyard....
dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2016 - 02:56pm PT
Oh, okay Esco.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 17, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
So why would he continue to back Trump if he's the nominee?


The Robo-Republicans are a piece of work.

Instead of thinking for themselves, and making decisions based on their own powers of logic and intelligence, they follow the mandate of the Party Bosses.

Earlier in this campaign, the Republican Party wanted to get a written declaration from the candidates, and probably other people, too, that no matter WHO was nominated, they would support him.

And, the candidates pledged to surrender their right to run for office under a different party banner.


Politicians are whores, and a whore who doesn't perform as requested is going to go hungry (cold turkey).



I understand the concept of cohesion in a group, to provide a benefit that exceeds that of the individual, but restricting how people vote sounds alot like what Kim Jong-Un does in North Korea.



If the Republican candidate is Charles Manson (Trump), then people identifying with that political party should have the freedom to vote for someone else, even a Democrat.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 17, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
Kim Jong-il and Trump might as well have been conjoined twins, surgically separated at birth by Dr. Sleepy-Head.

Kim Jong-il and Donald Trump both have spoiled rotten, silver spoon-poisoned sons who are just as loony.



Eric Trump, campaigning for his father, said he supports the idea of torturing prisoners and dissidents.

Eric Trump says that waterboarding is no different from what occurs everyday on U.S. college campuses and in fraternity houses.


TIME MAGAZINE: Eric Trump says waterboarding is like typical fraternity hazing


The mini-Trump must have spent some time in a prison-like institution, like the reform school his father attended. Where else would he have witnessed people torturing each other, just for their own amusement?

Either that, or Eric Trump is a despicable, self-serving liar, like his father.











The hacktivist group Anonymous has declared total war on Trump, and have hacked into his computer systems. They took down the Trump Tower website. They have posted Trump's SS and phone numbers, and other sensitive information online.


Here is a link to the Trump campaign playbook. Notice how closely Trump follows his playbook when he plays to the crowds. There is very little deviation from it.

Now that everyone can see Trump's playbook, it should be obvious what Trump is really up to, and that people need to stop supporting and encouraging him.

Donald Trump's campaign playbook



Here is Rule #4:

“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”


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Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 17, 2016 - 08:53pm PT
Funny how some on here equate success as a human to money, like most rich, Trump had a huge safety net (his father). He has failed in a number of projects and is an insult to most rich who actually worked for wealth.


" At 69, he can still carry on like the teen who was yanked out of prep school and delivered to Col. Dobias, the take-no-shit instructor at the military academy. After I met Ivanka and praised her to her father, he said, “Yeah, she’s really something, and what a beauty, that one. If I weren’t happily married and, ya know, her father . . . ”

Sick little prick he is.


Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 18, 2016 - 05:16am PT
The tide has turned on Trump, like any fad, his support will continue to erode, as this mess drags on. A year from now his current supporters will deny having backed him at all. Especially as more horrible stories come out, he will be tried and condwmned in the popular media court that fluffed him in the first place. Which seems fitting.

But it's a scary wake up call, and a green light for the next rich, fascist, authoritarian, potential dictator. Fortunately for the world, few of them have the independent resources that Drumpf does!!

And hopefully, once and for all, this will put an end to that whole reactionary, "run government like a business" dogma!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 18, 2016 - 06:24am PT
This one made me think of Pyro.

divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 18, 2016 - 06:29am PT
The Donner Party ate its' weakest to survive. The Republican Party will eat its' strongest.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 18, 2016 - 06:44am PT
Lol escopeta..

Are the bern voters sending Trumps family tainted mail?

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 18, 2016 - 06:58am PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 18, 2016 - 07:01am PT


For you crakloon
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 18, 2016 - 07:19am PT
Actually, the Donner party ate their dead. On second thought, I guess those were the weakest. A good read is Mark Twain's 'Cannibalism in the Cars'.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 18, 2016 - 07:27am PT
Met my first in-person ardent Trump supporter last night. I was internetting at a grocery store cafe and the guy doing the room cleanup noticed I had opened a tab that was a news article with a picture of Donald Trump.

I suppose it didn't occur to in that, in general, a person ought to respect the privacy of another. I mean - wouldn't YOU feel a little creepy looking at someone's monitor long enough to see what they were viewing? But, that didn't seem to concern this man.

He says, simply, "Trump!"

I look up and say "Yeah, well, I can't wait to see how he reacts when he gets his ass handed to him."

he responds "He ain't losing. Against Hillary Clinton?" he says with an angry spit.

I say nothing for a moment and then say "I guess you and I are on opposite sides of the campaign spectrum, so we'll just have to agree to disagree."

Not happy with that, he says, in earnest, "He's a businessman and I think..." the standard talking point. I do not return with the facts that Trump is actually a failed businessman whose "successes" have come because he has bilked many of his suppliers and contractors.

Instead I say "Dude, you have been chomping on those sound bites. I don't know about you, but I try to get news from perspective points on all sides, and not just the one my party wants me to hear(although I suppose, his party is not the GOP, if he is supporting Trump). Then I analyze and decide what I feel is correct."

He didn't like that, and harumphs. Then comes back with another soundbite about the "astounding debt!"

"Oh my god," I say. "Are ya kidding? The right wing media has harassed President Obama since the day he took office, and it's probably mainly because he is Black."

Then he says "Well, this country has gone downhill ever since we tool prayer out of school."

Oy veh....

I said, as I got up to leave, "The world is not going to hell. Don't believe everything you read in the paper - take a look around you! You meet people all day long, and they are good people! Think about it. THAT is the reality."

This morning I am back at the came cafe and he was here too. I smiled and said "Have a good one!" as I walked past, with genuine friendliness. I don't think he liked that.

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 18, 2016 - 07:42am PT
Well Happie, there are jerks in every camp.
Good for you for taking the high road. Hopefully your example will sink in to Mr sourpuss.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 18, 2016 - 07:51am PT
Happie i had the similar happen when a crotch voter couldnt believe TRUMP earned more votes in Ohio than hillary
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 18, 2016 - 08:17am PT
well good job happie. you realize - why bother? drumpf supporters are braindead. no reason to try
dirtbag

climber
Mar 18, 2016 - 09:04am PT
Interesting, happie.


Nature: yep. Trump is so blatantly unqualified, and obviously holds the office he seeks and American people in such low regard, that his supporters must truly be oblivious to facts in order to continue their support.

Brainwashed? Yes!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 18, 2016 - 09:15am PT
Y'all do like to go on like the sky is falling. We've had way worse presidents
and the sky is still up there. And he may actually turn out to be, say, mediocre!
dirtbag

climber
Mar 18, 2016 - 09:17am PT
Actually, I don't think we have had worse presidents, at least in the last century or so.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 18, 2016 - 09:24am PT
And, with nuclear codes, and the most powerful
military ever.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 18, 2016 - 09:29am PT
Good Lord, we let a community organizer do the job. What's to worry about?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 18, 2016 - 09:36am PT
Good Lord, we let a community organizer do the job. What's to worry about?

I also heard a rumor that many of our past presidents used to poop in their diapers. How are they qualified to lead this great country?

Curt
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 18, 2016 - 09:39am PT
Not happy with that, he says, in earnest, "He's a businessman and I think..." the standard talking point. I do not return with the facts that Trump is actually a failed businessman whose "successes" have come because he has bilked many of his suppliers and contractors.

It is bizarre to think a good businessman would make a good president--it's a completely different skill set. Our fairly recent Harvard MBA president turned the budget surplus he inherited into a multi-trillion dollar deficit.

Curt
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 18, 2016 - 09:42am PT
Trump supporters are very simple minded people. The complexity of actually running a country vs simply bankrupting a business escapes them.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 18, 2016 - 09:48am PT
The complexity of actually running a country vs simply bankrupting a business escapes them.

But I suspect the fact that currently we are getting a double whammy and bankrupting a country is not lost on many.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 18, 2016 - 09:56am PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:01am PT
Buahahahaha. And this is the person that was downplaying a businessman. Do you even know what a deficit is? Or did you just try an find a graph that wasn't going high and to the right?

LOL ROTFLMAO
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:11am PT
Like this one?

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:18am PT
It is just not that simple my man.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/10/08/the-federal-deficit-is-now-smaller-than-the-average-since-the-1980s/
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:23am PT
Reilly it's not really fair to show a graph that shows the deficit leveling off during a Clinton presidency then skyrocketing under W.

There's many factors that lead to the deficit.

Same thing with Stahlbro's graph. Just because it shows W's last budget in 2009 as giant, then it decreasing under Obama (during a recession). There's many factors that lead to the deficit.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:25am PT
It is just not that simple my man.

Whatever you say boss.

We got's to get's our revenues up dammit! Maybe if you kick the balls of the 1% ers a little harder you can close that deficit even more!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:27am PT
Reilly it's not really fair to show a graph that shows the deficit leveling off during a Clinton presidency then skyrocketing under W.

There's many factors that lead to the deficit.

Is that what Reilly posted?

Good lord, no wonder you people want to vote for Bernie or the Crotch or Drumph

You don't even know the difference between the national debt and the deficit.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:27am PT
It's pretty simple really, we need to reduce spending. But you never seem to mention that.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:28am PT
It is just not that simple my man.

Uh, yes it is - that's a phuk of a lot of money. Capisce?

If you want to talk deficit vs debt then do consult a list of countries , oh, wait, I just happen to
have The Economist to hand! The only countries with worse current-account balances than
us are Britain, Canada, Australia, and South Africa.

"What's in yer wallet?"
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:30am PT
"What's in yer wallet?"

I likey
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:31am PT
You get 'em esco. ad hominem attack that strawman, lol.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:36am PT
IF you don't understand the difference between debt and deficit, I can't hold you accountable to understand big words like strawman and ad hominem.

But it's okay if you want to just repeat them because other people used them. Kind of like Debt and Deficit. Lol
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:37am PT
Oh no I had a typo. Good line of attack. If that's all you got.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:40am PT
And any of you condescending Daily Worker economists can PM me for a copy of the paper
I'm writing on the failings of the Smets-Wouters DSGE model with particular regard to their
shock impulse parameters, or lack thereof.

Yer welcome.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:44am PT
I wonder how a Cruz/Kasich ticket would fare at a brokered convention?

There would be some balance in temperament and likability, plus Kasich represents a swing state. Both have had some vetting and together might hold nearly as many delegates as trump after the primary dust settles in June, so there might be some plausible pretense of legitimacy in such a ticket.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 18, 2016 - 10:45am PT
Not that I think such a ticket would appease angry trump supporters, or win against Hillary.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 18, 2016 - 06:57pm PT
Of course one of my favorite reads is the "National Review"
They have good judgment, Right?


Trump’s ‘Riot’ Comments Disqualify Him from the Presidency

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/432961/donald-trump-riot-comments-disqualify-him-presidency


Faced with each latest example of Trump’s megalomaniacal boorishness and appalling manners, his supporters inevitably claim: Oh, the Left is so much worse. That is not always the case. Trump has achieved a level of vicious, personal invective, and wildly irresponsible public pronouncements that is unprecedented in recent memory. And I speak as someone who supports his immigration positions 100 percent and who takes a fiendish delight in his scourging of the Republican establishment and its open-borders ideology. But some things are more important than a stated willingness to enforce the immigration laws (especially when an alternative candidate exists who is equally committed to immigration enforcement), and the maintenance of civilized society is one of them.

Ironically, Trump occasionally positions himself as the law-and-order candidate. But his recent threat of riots disqualifies him from that position and shows him to be clueless about the fragility of civil order and the profound responsibilities of a leader for maintaining that order. His self-indulgent, undisciplined pronouncements should disqualify him from the presidency as well.


Where is the "Ready for Ted Cruz" thread
oh boy, it's Locked out by admin a couple months ago
Now what are we going to do?


Ted Cruz has been resurrected!!
He will be the GOP nominee.

dirtbag

climber
Mar 18, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
Craig, I will be eating a lot of popcorn as I watch the republicans stick fork in each other's eyes this year. That column is a good example.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 18, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 18, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
Trump has been in the making for years, the republican party added way more wood to fire than they had too, now the party is in flames.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/toure/donald-trump-white-lives-matter_b_9499508.html
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 18, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
If Trump & Clinton emerge as the candidates after the conventions, I suspect the attack ads leading up to the election will be unprecedented. The Willy Horton ads that Bush Sr ran against Dukakis will seem like child's play by the time this is over. Here's a Trump attack add example by KnowPolitical...it's really too easy. No wonder Bernie called Trump a pathological liar.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 18, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
Thank goodness Trump has all the "Best" supporters

We all better vote for Trump according to Alex Jones
Or the Satan's army of Aliens will destroy the World!!!
They are attacking us now as we Speak!!!11116666

This is serious folks, God has chosen Trump
How can you question the "Info Wars"
They get the inside scoop.

Defending Donald Trump, Alex Jones Warns Of "An Alien Force Not Of This World Attacking Humanity"

http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/03/17/defending-donald-trump-alex-jones-warns-of-an-a/209345

You have to watch this
It will blow your mind!
"We all have weaponised TVs pointed at us"
"Trump may be a syop, but it doesn't matter!"
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 18, 2016 - 08:20pm PT
Imagine Sleepy Ben Carson as his VP pick.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 18, 2016 - 08:22pm PT


Note to Republicans: You Own Trump, You Psychopaths
The Rude Pundit

3/18/2016

Let's get this straight. The party that:

1. Has declared that the President should have no say in choosing a Supreme Court justice in his final year in office;

2. Has elected officials who support a man who led a group that pointed guns at federal employees doing their duty to enforce the laws;

3. Shut down the government because President Obama wouldn't agree to defund a program that had been passed by a previous Congress;

4. Refused to pass even the mildest of gun regulations in the wake a mass shooting that killed 20 grade school children even though over 90% of Americans supported such action;

5. Supported a government employee who refused to do her job because she didn't like what she was legally obligated to do;

6. Once passed legislation to force doctors to keep a brain-dead woman alive;

7. Killed an extension of unemployment benefits to the very jobless they now court for votes;

8. Once called anyone who opposed the war in Iraq unpatriotic and now admit that the war was, at best, a mistake (and haven't apologized for attacking anti-war Americans);

9. Refuse to acknowledge the existence of, let alone the need to do something about, climate change, even though 75% of Americans accept the reality and most think we should try to slow it down or mitigate it;

10. Demonized then destroyed ACORN, an organization that existed to assist the poor;

11. Demonizes and is attempting to destroy Planned Parenthood, an organization that exists to assist the poor.

12. Demonized and voted dozens of times to repeal the Affordable Care Act, a law that exists to assist the poor;

And so very much more, now thinks that Donald Trump is too appalling for them?

It's laughable that a group of psychopaths believes that the psychopath who likes to disembowel his prey and dance with the innards is just a little too crazy to support.

Oh, dear, sweet, dumb Republicans, you own Trump. He is your deformed, conjoined twin who has pulled away from your side, leaving you bleeding to death as you wonder what you can do to ever be whole again.

 See more at: http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/#sthash.ompmJs29.dpuf
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 18, 2016 - 08:25pm PT

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 19, 2016 - 02:56am PT
It is astonishing, in the age of the internet, that Trump can pretend that nobody is able to learn about his past.


He denies videotapes that show him.

He lies about facts that are irrefutable.

He twists reality into a pretzel.



And, yet, the Trumpians march forward, as if that makes logical sense.


nah000

climber
no/w/here
Mar 19, 2016 - 04:00am PT
Escopeta: thanks for your itemized list regarding ways that we have become less free... (from 500 or so posts ago already... hahaha.) and my apologies for missing it until now... while the length of this response is due to the scope of the question, i appreciated your response, and so hopefully you and/or others find something of value...

(i've taken the liberty of reorganizing both your and my responses into more general categories, regarding changes in freedom since the 1950s, purely for the sake of efficiency)



INCREASED FREEDOMS

decreases in infrastructural restriction regarding category based caste systems:
more freedom from infrastructural constraint due to race
more freedom from infrastructural constraint due to sexual orientation
more freedom from infrastructural constraint due to sex and gender
more freedom from infrastructural constraint due to religion (or lack thereof)

increased protection of commons:
more freedom from environmental pollution

increased freedom due to wealth and technology:
more freer access to information (mostly due to tecnnological changes)
more freer access to means of mass communication (mostly due to tecnnological changes)
more freer access to mobilty (mostly due to increases in relative wealth)



DECREASED FREEDOMS

increased victimless crime laws:
more drug laws

increased attempts at decreasing collective liability:
more firearms laws
more health care laws (enforced health insurance, smoking, seatbelt/helmet)

increased enforcement of support of gov’t programs
more enforced social services (osadi, unemployment insurance)
increased enforcement of support of standing army

increased number of preemptive laws:
generalized increase in laws regarding terrorism (flight restrictions, no due process, increased legality for spying)
civil asset forfeiture laws
financial services (operation choke point)



POINTS OF DISAGREEMENT REGARDING NET CHANGES

due to little to no change:
taxation in general: basically overall taxation has not increased since the 1950s but has rather fluctuated between 25-35% of GDP from 1945 to the present

due to complete disagreement:
Violent criminals have a government guarantee that honest people are unarmed if they're away from their homes or businesses in many places. (concealed carry laws have overwhelmingly loosened between the 1980s and the present)
Protesting is now criminal (no it’s not.)
A landowner must pay thousands of dollars in fees, taxes and licensing just to build a toolshed on the property they own. (not sure where you live, but this is certainly not anywhere near true as an average across the u.s.)

due to my seeing as abuse and overextension of existing laws:
Peaceful protestors are being tear-gassed, beaten and arrested. (has always existed throughout history, regardless of its currently being illegal)
Americans are being arrested for having the audacity to film police officers (true, but it is not legal)






point of all of this from my perspective: while i agree with a lot of what you've said (especially regarding what i perceive to be ultimately counter productive increases of restrictions in the victimless and preemptive law categories, as well as the forced supporting of a standing army) i in no way, shape or form agree with a carte blanche assessment that we are less free now than we were in the 1950s.



the short version is that while the libertarian cato institute is a strange bedfellow i'd have to generally agree with this assessment:

I think that, on balance, Americans today are more free than any people in history. And certainly when you combine liberty, wealth, and social openness, we have more choices and options than any people in history. So take a moment to reflect on our history, have a glass of wine, and celebrate what we've achieved after centuries and millennia of hard work and political struggle.

And then, refreshed and rejuvenated, return to the struggle. There never was a golden age of liberty, and there never will be. People who value freedom will always have to defend it from those who claim the right to wield power over others. Foreign and domestic, right and left, there are still plenty of people seeking to take our liberty, to force us into collectivist schemes, to promise us security or handouts in return for our freedom, or to impose their agendas on the rest of us. But slowly, over time, with high points and low points, freedom is winning



if i was to be very honest and blunt, while also opening myself up to being mistaken, i suspect that your experience and perspective is fundamentally colored by your likely being a straight white male, just as my experience and perspective is fundamentally colored by my being queer.



and so while things are not perfect and there are always new threats to freedom, i wouldn't go back to the 1950s (or the 1850s or 1750s for that matter) for all of the money in the world.

again thanks for your contributions to this board and peace.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Mar 19, 2016 - 04:39am PT
NyH
Who;
OMG
FRM
GOD
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 19, 2016 - 07:32am PT
Nah000,

A well-reasoned response for sure.

While there is much to agree about on your post, and maybe over time I can address some of the points in turn with small bites - because I do disagree with some. I think the one primary difference between our points of view lies mainly in your category of:

"decreases in infrastructural restriction regarding category based caste systems"

Obviously, this is a broad category.

Make no mistake, I am a staunch proponent of equality and believe that it is, in fact, a role of the government to protect the equal rights of US citizens. Its a foundation, the cornerstone if you will, of freedom itself.

But I am of the opinion that the way <we have allowed> our government has decided to manage these equality conflicts is to quite simply lock down a full web of control and then selectively open up certain portals to let freedom leak out. It creates a construct of 'freedom by waiver' meaning you can't do anything, unless we tell you.

The crux of my argument is that even if the government is benevolent and decides to really open up the web of control and allow a lot of things, there is still the specter of their oversight and that's not true freedom. It’s nothing more than a very large African game park whereby only the most bold and fit animals ever reach the fence line.

And, as we have seen in everyday practice, it results in a culture of bribery and exceptions so that only the most connected (wealthy) and elected elite are allowed to venture out past the fence-line. This model is the antithesis of freedom but it dupes the average citizen into believing in the benefits of this surrogate.

I will concede that in some cases it’s a very subtle difference but an important one. And it belies the tremendous amount of everyday control that we have allowed our gov to exert on the avg. citizen.

I have a hard time finding a better example than the whole gay marriage situation. But you can see parallels for many other race,religion,gender-based conflicts.

The government has been socially engineering marriage for a very long time through the various taxes, penalties and exemptions that prop up and legitimize the institution of marriage in this country. And rather than step back and say "Hey, wait a minute! Why are we allowing the government to manage all this stuff in support (or against) something as personal as the institution of marriage?"

People went straight to the ideological argument of gay marriage vs straight marriage. Which in essence means that we’ve already conceded the power to the government to choose what they find acceptable and now people just fight one another to make the government do their bidding.
And make no mistake, our government does not care about the ideological argument of gay vs. straight marriage. They simply want to maintain the power to control it one way or the other.

At risk of matching wall of texts, I’ll leave it there but I thought it might be worthwhile to approach our differences ideologically vs. a point-by-point diatribe around which lines I agree with or not. Which is a worthwhile discussion if and only if we can agree that we may be approaching the issue from conflicting angles.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 19, 2016 - 07:35am PT
perhaps the most pathetic part of the Drumpf supports is their constant crowing about how Hillary is a liar. Yet one study shows Drumpf lies once every five minutes.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 19, 2016 - 07:39am PT
dummies
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 19, 2016 - 07:45am PT
Which in essence means that we’ve already conceded the power to the government to choose what they find acceptable and now people just fight one another to make the government do their bidding.
And make no mistake, our government does not care about the ideological argument of gay vs. straight marriage. They simply want to maintain the power to control it one way or the other.

Ideological masturbation

we concede power to a million different things, it's all part of being a living human

I concede power to food, I have to have it
water, yes
That stupid AIR, it controls ME, can't I just say no to it's control....
I hate AIR with it's control over me and my addiction to it, and it's all the Government's fault

What's next, sleep, oh no, not sleep tooo..
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 19, 2016 - 08:04am PT
We have to blame libertarian think tanks for spreading this crazy notion of being under the bad Government's control, and the anger towards our Government

They have put in University professors to teach this malarkey, just pay off the Admin and you can teach anything you want.

And it's all based on greed, these people want to pay No taxes and be able to do anything they want without consequences, like pollute they you want, squash competition, screw regulations, shoot your as#@&%e neighbor.

Why should they have to pay for medicare or SS, they're rich, let's convince the stupid losers that it's a ponzi scheme, and get rid of it.

They got theirs, if you aren't rich too bad for you, maybe you should just jump off a cliff, we can't afford to support you freeloaders.....


most of these libertarians have other consistent quirks in knowledge,
like denying climate change (and/or evolution) which can give you an insight into how easily they are duped by propaganda
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 19, 2016 - 09:08am PT
nah000,
That was an excellent post, with a good reply by Escopeta.
This civil exchange of ideas is the essence of finding truths.
I only post on these politard threads as a sounding board for my 'preconceived perceptions'.

I am of the school of thought that liberty and security is a zero sum game.
Motorcycle helmet laws, restricted smoking areas, etc, restrict certain freedoms, but enhance life overall.
NSA snooping, TSA searches, 'over' regulations in business increase security with dubious enhancements to life.

As a libertarian I am in favor of giving citizens the maximum number of options to live the life they want, without harm to others.
I am very skeptical of large government.
There is not such thing as a totalitarian in favor of smaller government.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 19, 2016 - 09:12am PT
Larry, what's your take on Global Climate Change
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2016 - 09:25am PT
DECREASED FREEDOMS

increased attempts at decreasing collective liability:
more firearms laws
more health care laws (enforced health insurance, smoking, seatbelt/helmet)

increased enforcement of support of gov’t programs
more enforced social services (osadi, unemployment insurance)
increased enforcement of support of standing army

Only a delusional fundamentalist would consider these as "decreased freedoms"...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 19, 2016 - 10:49am PT
"more enforced social services (osadi, unemployment insurance)"


This one cracks me up. Let's all go back to the 1700's when the US was a slave based economy.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 19, 2016 - 11:52am PT
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/03/21/the-internet-of-us-and-the-end-of-facts
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 19, 2016 - 12:04pm PT
Craig Fry posted
Larry, what's your take on Global Climate Change

Hey Craig
Certainly the climate is changing. What is the cause? I do know that human pollution is not vitamins for the Earth.
I think cleaning up our pollution in all aspects only enhances life.

As far as extreme measures in this country, I think there is a cost/benefit ratio that has to be considered.
If trashing our economy brings about negligible results in the environment of the planet, we should step back and balance it a bit.

Without measures taken by China, India, Russia, Brazil, and others, trashing our own economy to set an example doesn't seem pragmatic.

In my experience, the environment in the US is pretty darn clean compared to what I see in Brazil, where I travel extensively.
Having said all that, I am not a climate scientist and I defer to credible, non political, research by the professionals.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 19, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
Larry

Please explain how the economy will be "trashed" by the enactment of
environmentally friendly carbon emission regulations?

Thanks
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Mar 19, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
I guess Donald Cornholione is in Fountain Hills, Az. today visiting Sheriff Joe and my brother reports a near riot of supporters, protestors and cops dragging people away, happening just a short time ago
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 19, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
my brother reports a near riot of supporters, protestors and cops dragging people away, happening just a short time ago

protesting felons who wear Birkenstocks!!!

federals law HF347 violation..
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Mar 19, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
Snowbirds squawking and feathers flying
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 19, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
Norton posted
Larry
Please explain how the economy will be "trashed" by the enactment of
environmentally friendly carbon emission regulations?

Yeah, that was a bit of hyperbole ;-)
But are you implying there are zero costs to economic activity by implementing more environmental regulation?
I just think there is a balance in a time of economic distress.

FWIW: Bernie and Hillary are both campaigning on the fact that times are hard and there are more able bodied individuals not working now than in one heck of a long time.
We've had 8 years to improve the job situation. I admit a lot of this is a changing world, with changing technology. I don't believe either political party has the foresight to solve disappearing jobs or income inequality.
Difficult to diagnose the roots of those problems for all but partisan ideologues.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 19, 2016 - 02:16pm PT
Just back from my CPA's. He told me I'm buying Obama's jet fuel for his Cuba trip, a lot of it.

So happy. At least le bistro had a nice Sancerre for lunch.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 19, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
Well for one thing, most of the manufacturing jobs are gone and they are never coming back, at least in our lifetime. The republicans keep tooting that horn and do nothing to created new green jobs.

Larry, is this an improvement or not...yes or no will be fine?

Norton

Social climber
Mar 19, 2016 - 02:35pm PT
Well Reilly

If a US President's fuel cost to open diplomatic relations with
another country bothers you and your CPA then imagine how
upset you would be to learn that you have also been paying for Presidents'
flights to their vacation spots for as long as you have been
paying Federal Taxes!
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Mar 19, 2016 - 02:55pm PT
Escopeta: thanks for the response.

also thanks for the restraint regarding the giving back of a point by point... because as you and others have pointed out there is a whole category in the middle [social services, health regulation, protection of the environment, etc.] that can incredibly easily be viewed as either an increase or decrease in freedom depending on how one is looking at the situation...

and at the end of the day neither of us is likely going to change our minds on where the commons starts and ends [or even if there is a commons] based on someone else's tome of a post.

so i'll also attempt to keep it brief: i actually don't disagree with much of your most recent post. in fact i suspect that if we sat down and spoke of what would constitute an ideal system we'd end up on agreeing to more than might be evident at first blush.

that said, i think you and i are focusing on different points on the line at the same time that we seem to see the past in different lights. with respect, i suspect you are focusing on how far you'd still like to see us go, at the same time that i'm focused more on how far i believe we've already come.



i think a defining difference for me is when you wrote this: The crux of my argument is that even if the government is benevolent and decides to really open up the web of control and allow a lot of things, there is still the specter of their oversight and that's not true freedom.

i generally agree with this. with that said, as you sort of alluded to in the lines above that statement: but the government we have is, at the end of the day and for the most part, due to what we have collectively demanded.

and so as long as this is what the collective demands i optimistically focus on the places where "the web of control", as you put it, has opened up, rather than that we often and collectively demand things from government that i don't believe it can fundamentally give us... [and so we are destined to be perpetually disappointed when it doesn't give us perfect security, it doesn't give us perfect health, it doesn't give us a perfect future, and etc.]

at the same time, i do hope that someday we collectively grow up and focus less on trying to control each other.

and so while i'm optimistic that we are heading in that direction, there are moments, that like you, i think this is turning into a pretty fUcked up shIt show.

thanks for the conversation: it has helped me to more broadly consider how i personally see our collective situation, even if we likely won't end up substantially changing either of our minds.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 19, 2016 - 04:56pm PT
Donald Trump and his supporters are living proof that mental illness is contagious.


The Republican Party, trying to play doctor, can't provide a cure, and instead has become infected itself.




Now the GOP says they will double their efforts to stop Trump, with a massive media blitz in Wisconsin. But, that is where the uber-idiot Scott Walker is governor. Despite massive funding by the Koch brothers, he was the first candidate to go belly-up.


So, what, again, is the GOP's master plan ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

And, the GOP is still convinced that opposing Trump will stop his demented and hypnotized followers, and suddenly bring them to their senses?




Trump has already ordered his Manchurian Supporters to rise up and riot if he is denied the nomination.

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 19, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
Bob D'A posted
Larry, is this an improvement or not...yes or no will be fine?

Hey Bob,
That looks pretty good, and it's private employment. If they included government employment it would probably be more.
How many of those jobs are part time or lower paying? There are still more able bodied workers idle now than in a long time, don't remember the source.

You are right about the manufacturing jobs.
3 robot technicians will do what 300 workers used to do.
Driverless cars and drones will threaten the Teamsters union and Pilots unions at some point in the future.
On line college courses will cause half of the colleges in America to fold within 20 years, while
Harvard University will have 1 million online students in 10 years.
Modularized construction will make many construction skilled trades obsolete.
Applications on smart phones will diagnose medical conditions and medical data bases will prescribe drugs or cures.
We will be a service industry in the future. This will probably cause more income inequality than less.
There will probably have to be some kind on national minimum income.
The new oligarchs will be the patent holders of new emerging technologies

It is a period of transition that will be difficult for many and interesting for us all.
These are just my opinions derived from nerd websites I read.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 19, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
Norton, the diplomatic relations are a done deal. I'm paying for the photo op.
I thought we were all sposed to telecommute and save energy?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 19, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Larry, that is a long yes or no. :-)

Under Obama government employment has gone down, something republican presidents wouldn't or couldn't do.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 19, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
I saw a news story that the restaurant chain Carls Jr(?) was going to open a store with no human employees - fully automated. And looking for that article, I saw stories that McDonald's had intended to open many, many automated stores with crews of 1-3 humans by mid 2016. Don't know if they are on schedule with that.

Meanwhile the low-end fast food chains are what is currently behind all those "increased number of jobs" that keep getting put up as evidence the economy is improving. No mention that, since people cannot actually support themselves and a dependent with such jobs and must rely on government assistance.... But dammit, those corporations just can't AFFORD to pay $15/hour!



It didn't occur to me that the driverless car would change hauling. Also, busses no doubt, at some point. Probably planes too, eventually.


Meanwhile, at one point a few days ago, Trump insisted that Iphones would be made right here in the USA when he becomes president....
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 19, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
Trump insisted that Iphones would be made right here in the USA when he becomes president....

If Bernie said this, he would be called a communist

it's a good idea but we can't make them move, they're a free company
they can do whatever they want.

It's good populism to say he'll bring the jobs back, we all want that
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 19, 2016 - 07:05pm PT
Nah000,

Unfortunately, I don't share your optimism. The die is cast and the fix is in for both of our wonderful political parties. We are barreling down the road to serfdom and I see absolutely no indication of course correction. It pains me to say it, but I can't deny it either.

The political parties that people waste countless time and brain-cells on both suck equally in their own special way but they are united in their attack on individual liberty and their encroachment into every possible corner of American life. And I consider that to be happening both intentionally via the wishes of the voters (some of the people here are great examples), and surreptitiously via their elected status.

While I agree with the sentiment that the government we have is a representation of the democratic process, I take very little ownership of the "we" you speak of. Democracy doesn't equate to freedom so I am not so quick to simply hand wave away my individual rights to a majority vote.

Even if we were to accept that a huge chasm exists between our definition of "the common good" so-to-speak, that alone doesn't represent the vast majority of overstep our government takes on a daily basis.

There are plenty of people in this country who have, if we are to be honest with ourselves, accustomed themselves to the government largess as-it-were. That is both irrefutable and (sadly) irreversible.

This appears to be a function of the asks you mentioned around security, health, etc. that I contend the government can't (nor has any obligation) to provide.

I agree that if you try to take a snapshot of american history, both that which I've personally lived and that which I've studied, its difficult to spot a point where we were most "free". And some will reminisce about how far we've come, and other's how far we've gone.

One thing is for certain, I don't like where we are going.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 19, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
Photo-op with Fidel ;-)

pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 19, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 19, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
^^^ that was funny. Too bad he didn't tip the barrel back a little further. Ha.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 19, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
Escopeta?

At last! I think you actually stated something you believe tonight.

Democracy doesn't equate to freedom so I am not so quick to simply hand wave away my individual rights to a majority vote.

Are you going to offer us an alternative to that messy "majority-rules" democracy thing we have been fed?

How are you, and or your leaders, taking over?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 19, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
I think we are content to wait for retards like you to implode and pick up from there. Carry on and be quick about it. ^Fireworks^*

*Legally purchased with proper permits
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 19, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
Escopeta! Thank you for this wonderful comeback.

It seems I should repeat it, just in case it makes sense to someone.

Mar 19, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
I think we are content to wait for retards like you implode and pick up from there. Carry on and be quick about it. ^Fireworks^*

*Legally purchased with proper permits
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 19, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
who exactly are the retards you speak of?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 20, 2016 - 09:21am PT

The Top of the Republican Party, MM = Mitch McConnell
Everything the party says is just pandering for votes that support MM's agenda of obstruction and trickle up economics
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 20, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
MM is up in arms over Obama's supreme court nominee...

[Click to View YouTube Video]



pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 20, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mo-cops-arrest-woman-suspected-hitting-police-horse-article-1.2570694
dirtbag

climber
Mar 20, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
So? The likely Republican Party nominee incites mob violence.

Presidential? No, he's a thug.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 20, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
Trump needs to unite the rowdier of his followers. Perhaps he should suggest they all wear the same color shirt....brown would be perfect, it would add historical perspective.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 20, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
Donini,
You have options.
You can always stand in your front yard and wave your fist when he is elected.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 20, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
How can you defend this sh#t? He's endorsing mob violence. Seriously.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 20, 2016 - 08:00pm PT
Bob D'A
Concerning my earlier comment about more able bodied individuals not working now than in one heck of a long time.

Here is the source for that. some good charts at the link. Not pointing fingers, it's just a curious time in our history.
http://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2015/07/16/unemployment-is-low-but-more-workers-are-leaving-the-workforce


"The percentage of adult Americans working or actively looking for a job stands at 62.6 percent, the lowest level in nearly four decades....

This reflects changing demographics as well as the results of policies that may have yielded unintended results.

Baby boomers in a big lump are leaving the labor force. And that explains about half of the drop in the labor force participation rate between 2007 and the end of 2014

The second factor is education – people getting more education and staying in school longer. If you get an MBA, you're out of the labor force for three years. If you get a Ph.D., you're out of the labor force for 5 years, maybe 7 years.

A third factor is growing disability insurance claims... But once you get on disability insurance, you could be out of the labor force for years, because it replaces a pretty significant chunk of your old pay.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 20, 2016 - 08:00pm PT
Oh perish the thought. Who knew that people are fed up enough to fight over it. This surprises you? Whatever.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Mar 20, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
Trump needs to unite the rowdier of his followers. Perhaps he should suggest they all wear the same color shirt....brown would be perfect, it would add historical perspective.

Actually Gold polyester would be more Trump like.
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Mar 20, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
Mitch sure looks like a scrotum to me.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 20, 2016 - 08:49pm PT
"How can you defend this sh#t? He's endorsing mob violence. Seriously."


Some a-hole wearing Klan gear gets stomped by a black guy. Anywhere but a Trump rally that would be something to celebrate.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 20, 2016 - 09:01pm PT
Chaz--again the difference is that the likely nominee is encouraging mob violence. That's an extremely dangerous thing to do. I don't recall any leading nominee doing that. Whether or not someone deserves it complete irrelevant.

This is what dictators do, folks. Learn your history.

It's rather alarming that you do not get this.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 20, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
Some a-hole wearing Klan gear gets stomped by a black guy. Anywhere but a Drumpf rally that would be something to celebrate.

you do realize it was the guy wearing the american flag that got his has kicked by the piece of sh#t drumpf supporter don't you? not that facts or reality ever really mattered to you or were really apparent.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Mar 20, 2016 - 09:31pm PT
Well, the Roman Empire fell apart in the 4th century CE when the Visigoths moved to the Italian peninsula and wanted the same privileges as 'real' Roman citizens. Then, there was a race riot in Eternal City with the native Romans killing the the Visigoths in the streets. Unfortunately for the Romans, the legions were now mostly composed of Visigoths who didn't take kindly to the Romans murdering their relatives.

That is, entire civilizations and empires have collapsed due to mass immigration. Are we next?
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 20, 2016 - 09:51pm PT
Stop trying to pin the rise of Trump on easy targets like racism, xenophobia, and fetal alcohol syndrome and put the blame where it belongs on the "self esteem movement"

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 21, 2016 - 01:27am PT
Perhaps he should suggest they all wear the same color shirt....brown would be perfect, it would add historical perspective

The sheriff's deputies who threw a Trump protester to the ground, after he was attacked by a Trump supporter, were wearing BROWN SHIRTS.

The deputies did nothing towards apprehending the attacker, who gloated to a reporter that the best part his night was striking "that big mouth. Next time, we may have to kill him". The attacker was only arrested the next day when the incident went viral, and the Sheriff was forced to take action. It took about one week after that for the deputies to be disciplined with a few days' unpaid vacation time.




HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE, FROM A HISTORY TEACHER WHO WAS THERE

History teacher who survived the holocaust says that Trump is like Hitler

Trump would read Mein Kampf in bed, according to his first wife Ivana (not to be confused with his daughter Ivanka, whom Trump says he would date if he weren't already married).




Trump's CTE must be getting really bad. Either that, or his hubris allows him to think that he can erase the past (i.e., invoke George Orwell's 1984 Memory Hole) simply by making an absurd statement.

Trump is so insane, he thinks he can deny videotape evidence of what he has said, and people will accept the denials as the "truth".

Trump's self-image seems to be that of a magical, or God-like entity, who can conjure a conflicting reality out of thin air, by the sheer power of his big mouth.




Trump told George Stephanopoulos last December that he was aware of comparisons of himself to Hitler, which he downplayed and dismissed. Then, on March 8 of this year, he told that same George Stephanopoulos that he had never heard of anyone comparing him to Hitler.

The link shows videos of the two interviews, where Trump makes mutually contradictory statements (blatantly lies) to Stephanopoulos.

http://www.thewrap.com/watch-trump-lie-about-hitler-to-george-stephanopoulos/



The World's Greatest Memory --------------------------> The World's Worst Liar


Comparisons of Trump to Hitler began right after his infamous Trump Tower "Mexican rapists" tirade on June 16, 2015.


Trump is a liar, and a would-be history revisionist. His staff, such as Corey "Neidermeyer" Lewandowski, are on the same page and ready to help out.








TRUMP IS LIKE JOSEPH STALIN, WHO DOCTORED PHOTOS AND RECORDS TO REVISE HISTORY


DONALD TRUMP ATTEMPTS TO USE ORWELL'S 1984 "MEMORY HOLE" TO DECEIVE THE PUBLIC


TRUMP HIRES WINSTON SMITH TO POLISH UP HIS FAMILY HISTORY, TO FRAUDULENTLY OBTAIN PRESTIGE


TRUMP FAMILY WIKIPEDIA ARTICLES HAVE BEEN EDITED TO REMOVE UNFLATTERING DETAILS




I have Trump family wikipedia articles that I saved to my hard drive on September 28, 2015.

Since then, the wikipedia articles have been edited to downplay and/or eliminate the Drumpf family name reference. They have also been edited to downplay, and/or eliminate the fact that Trump's grandfather was a tax cheat and a draft dodger who was expelled from Germany, and who came to America and became a pimp and a gambling hall owner.


The Trump family wikipedia articles seem to change from week to week.




DONALD'S FATHER FRED JR.

Donald Trump's father was Fred Trump, one of the richest New York City real estate tycoons. He left an estate worth approximately $300 million when he died.


Fred Trump wikipedia article, September 28, 2015:

Early life

(Fred) Trump was born on East Tremont Avenue in the Bronx to German immigrants Frederick Trump and Elizabeth Christ. Trump's father Friedrich Drumpf immigrated to New York City in 1885 and worked as a barber for six years, becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen in 1892[citation needed] under the Anglicized name Frederick Trump after moving to Seattle, Washington in 1891. The elder Trump operated hotels and restaurants in the Klondike during the Klondike Gold Rush.

In 1901, sensing the end of the gold rush, Trump Sr. sold his investments and used the proceeds to return to Germany, where he married his old neighbor Elizabeth Christ in 1902. However, German authorities determined that Trump Sr., now a U.S. citizen, had emigrated from Germany to avoid his tax and army obligations. Trump Sr. and his pregnant wife were expelled from Germany. He returned to the United States and settled down in Woodhaven, Queens, where Fred Trump, Jr. was born in 1905. Trump Sr. died of pneumonia during the 1918 flu pandemic.



Fred Trump wikipedia article, March 21, 2016:

Early life

Trump was born on East Tremont Avenue in the Bronx. He was one of three children of German immigrants Elizabeth (née Christ) and Frederick Trump, along with his brother John and sister Elizabeth Trump Walters.[1] His father had immigrated to New York City in 1885 from the small German town of Kallstadt, Rhineland-Palatinate, where he briefly returned around 1900, married, and re-emigrated.

Although both of Trump's parents were born in Germany, Trump told friends and acquaintances for decades after World War II that the family was of Swedish origin. According to his nephew John Walter, "He had a lot of Jewish tenants and it wasn't a good thing to be German in those days."




DONALD'S GRANDFATHER FRED SR.

Friedrich Drumpf was Fred Jr's father and Donald's grandfather. Drumpf, like Donald, was a purveyor of gambling houses. He also ran brothels, making him both a casino baron and a pimp. Drumpf changed the family name to Trump.



Frederick Trump wikipedia article, on September 28, 2015:


Frederick Trump (nee Friedrich Drumpf; March 14, 1869 – March 30, 1918) was a German-American businessman. He is the father of businessman Fred Trump and John Trump and the grandfather of businessman and 2016 presidential candidate Donald Trump. Drumpf made his first fortune operating boom-town hotels, restaurants and brothels in the Northwestern United States.

Drumpf was born in the southwestern German town of Kallstadt where his family worked in a vineyard. Drumpf emigrated to New York City in 1885 and worked as a barber for six years.[1] In 1891, he moved to Seattle, Washington, and established a "decadent" restaurant (likely to have also been a brothel) known as the "Poodle Dog".[2] It was around this time that Drumpf anglicized his name to Frederick Trump, and became a naturalized United States citizen.




Frederick Trump wikipedia page, as copied and posted March 12, 2016

http://usmcforum.com/cgi-bin/mb/index.cgi?noframes;read=283717

Date: Saturday - March 12,2016 11:03

Source: Wikipedia

"Frederick Trump (disputably born Friedrich Drumpf; March 14, 1869 – March 30, 1918) was a German-born American businessman. Frederick Trump was the father of Elizabeth, Fred Trump and John G. Trump and grandfather of businessman Donald Trump. Trump made his first fortune operating boom-town hotels, restaurants and a brothel in the northwestern United States and western Canada."

"Friedrich Trump was born in the town of Kallstadt in the Palatinate, then part of the Kingdom of Bavaria, where his family owned a vineyard, to Christian Johannes Trump and Katherina Kober. In 1871 Bavaria became part of the new German Empire. Trump's son Fred later denied his German heritage, instead claiming his father had been a Swede from Karlstad."

"In 1885, at age 16, Trump emigrated to the United States aboard the steamship S.S. Eider, departing from Bremen, Germany, and arriving at the Castle Garden Emigrant Landing Depot in New York City on October 19. U.S. immigration records list his name as 'Friedrich Trumpf', last place of residence as 'Kallstadt,' country of birth as 'Germany,' and his occupation as 'farmer'. In New York, he worked as a barber for six years."




The Frederick Trump wikipedia article, on March 21, 2016


Frederick Trump (also known as Friedrich Trumpf; March 14, 1869 – March 30, 1918) was a German-born American businessman. Frederick Trump was the father of Elizabeth, Fred Trump and John G. Trump and grandfather of businessman Donald Trump. Trump made his first fortune operating boom-town hotels, restaurants and a brothel in the northwestern United States and western Canada.

Early life

Friedrich Trump was born in the town of Kallstadt in the Palatinate, then part of the Kingdom of Bavaria, where his family owned a vineyard, to Christian Johannes Trump[4] and Katherina Kober.[5] In 1871 Bavaria became part of the new German Empire. Trump's son Fred later denied his German heritage, instead claiming his father had been a Swede from Karlstad.[6]

In 1885, at age 16, Trump emigrated to the United States aboard the steamship S.S. Eider, departing from Bremen, Germany, and arriving at the Castle Garden Emigrant Landing Depot in New York City on October 19. U.S. immigration records list his name as "Friedrich Trumpf", last place of residence as "Kallstadt," country of birth as "Germany," and his occupation as "farmer".[7] In New York, he worked as a barber for six years.[3]

In 1891, he moved to Seattle, Washington and leased a storefront restaurant known as the Poodle Dog, and renamed it to the Dairy Restaurant.


Parents: Christian Johannes Trump, Katherina Kober




The history revisionist who doctored the Trump wikipedia articles was unable to anticipate that someone might save the articles to a hard drive, for posterity.

So much for the infallibility of the Orwell Memory Hole.




The newer Fred Trump article has had all mention of Drumpf deleted. It also removes the fact that Fred's father, Friedrich, was a tax cheat and a draft dodger who was expelled from Germany.



The March 12 Frederick Trump article has been edited to say he was "disputably born Friedrich Drumpf". No other mention of Drumpf appears.

The March 21 Frederick Trump article has been edited to remove all mention of Drumpf, and to say that he was "also known as Friedrich Trumpf". It claims that Friedrich's father, Christian Johannes, was named Trump, and not Drumpf, and not even the newly invented and fictitious Trumpf. The fictitious name Trumpf appears exactly twice in the article. All other references to Friedrich and Christian Johannes use the name "Trump".

Ostensibly, after Friedrich Drumpf came to America and changed his name to Trump, he sent word back to Germany, and his father, Christian Johannes Drumpf, changed his name to Trump, too.

Also, on September 28, 2015, the Frederick Trump article says that his family worked in a vineyard. Less than six months later, the upwardly-mobile Drumpfkopf family owned the vineyard. Perhaps they had obtained ownership by changing their name, and plastering TRUMP all over the place in big gold letters.

Actually, it's simpler than that: whoever doctored those wikipedia articles is a liar. And an overly-optimistic one, at that.



I'm surprised that all references to Trump's grandfather making his fortune as a whore monger were not deleted.

Perhaps in a week or two, Friedrich Drumpf will magically be remembered as a canonized saint, who drove all the pestilence from Germany and into the sea. And was awarded the Blue Max for his military service to Germany. And, Friedrich Drumpf will, just as magically, cease to have been a draft dodger and a tax cheat who was expelled from Germany, and who later became a pimp who fleeced gamblers at his card tables.



TRUMP'S GRANDFATHER WAS A GAMBLING BARON, A PIMP AND A WHORE MONGER

DONALD TRUMP IS A GAMBLING BARON AND REAL ESTATE SCHOOL FRAUDSTER


Trump is not exactly presidential material, unless you extend that same characterization to other gambling barons, like Meyer Lansky and Lucky Luciano, and to other notorious con artists, like Charles Ponzi and Bernard Madoff.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 21, 2016 - 05:10am PT
Tom would you compare Donald the same as the new elected president of argentina..
Great article on 60min..
Tom i dont think the hitler thing started in june after Donald addresses the border it started a couple weeks ago from the Today Show.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 21, 2016 - 05:39am PT
I don't have any way to watch 60 Minutes, unless they post it to the internet. I don't have any TV reception at all where I live. I don't know about the President of Argentina. I'll have to look him up.




I do have the following, from an article dated January 17, 2016, in which Donald Trump is likened to Adolf Hitler. The comparison was obvious and easy, even before January 17, because Trump's political rhetoric encourages racism, bigotry, hatred and violence against outsiders, opponents, and various imagined enemies.



Yes, the Trump Show has been annoying and injuring and preying upon people for a long, long time. But, Trump’s sociopathic tendencies have evolved, and are now infecting millions of otherwise normal Americans, encouraging them to behave in anti-social ways themselves. Trump's campaign followers are exactly the type of people who gather around a playground fist fight, shouting encouragement and insults at the schoolboy combatants, and then, contagiously, start punching at each other. Trump’s adherents consider his wild, irresponsible oratory as permission for them to act up themselves, and become callous and uncivilized, almost like animals. Like Hitler, Trump's Nuremberg-style rallies incite his followers to commit hate crimes against their fellow citizens. And, like Hitler, his target audience comprises mostly uneducated, blue-collar bigots and racists, who eagerly respond to a demagogue's blathering tirades about nationalism, dastardly foreigners, and various "domestic enemies" who need to be purged.

The last time a guy with a funny haircut called for the ethnic cleansing of an entire country and the forcible relocation of 10+ million “undesirables”, a dozen nations on six of the seven continents became embroiled in the worst military conflict in history. And, that is exactly what Donald J. Trump promises, if he can just manage to, somehow, get elected President.



Notice that the forcible relocation of 10+ million undesirables was a key point that Trump made, back in June, just after his "Mexican rapists" tirade at Trump Tower. He promised to expel all the illegal aliens as part of his campaign platform, right at the start of his campaign.

The connection between Trump and Hitler was made right there, and not just by me.


Trump's rally cry for people to pledge allegiance to him, with a Nazi salute, is a more recent development. And only recently have neo-SA goons at his rallies been striking faces and drawing blood. Trump's campaign manager, a latter-day Goebbels propagandist, has personally assaulted at least two people at Trump rallies. Eric Trump (who bears a striking resemblance to a deceased Alfred Jodl) says that internationally-condemned CIA torture techniques should be widely used, because they are "no different from what occurs, everyday, on college campuses and in frat houses".


The connection of Trump to Hitler was established at the outset of his campaign. The parallels are getting stronger and worse. Every time Trump does something outrageous, and hears applause, it empowers him to go a bit further the next time.

Sooner or later, he is going to try to annex Palm Beach to his Mar-A-Lago estate, and call it the Anschluss.





The Today Show was apparently late to the Trump-is-like-Hitler story.


And John Oliver was late to the Donald Drumpf story.




http://geosymmetrix.com/trump2016/trump_is_whack.htm


The Hitler comparison is about 3/4 of the way down, below the comparison to Charles Manson, and above the comparison to the Unabomber.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 05:39am PT
tuolumne posted
Stop trying to pin the rise of Trump on easy targets like racism, xenophobia, and fetal alcohol syndrome and put the blame where it belongs on the "self esteem movement"


Maher is trying to shove a pet peeved shaped peg into an entitled narcissist shaped hole. He can sometimes be insightful but in this case he's way off the mark.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 21, 2016 - 06:26am PT
Trump insults the intelligence of all but his followers.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 21, 2016 - 07:33am PT
It's amusing the 100% outright switch on the Trumpster in the media right now. I still think it's by plan. Build him up, divide the sheep, then tear him down and hand the chief-puppet job over to a more proven murderous puppet.

We've already gotten hints that he's a "pedophile"... I'm waiting for the discovery of baby bones under his mansions... Maybe he's a secret member of ISIS too!!!!!

lol...

Sad circus really.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 21, 2016 - 07:57am PT
I don't have any way to watch 60 Minutes, unless they post it to the internet. I don't have any TV reception at all where I live. I don't know about the President of Chile. I'll have to look him up.

Tom sorry man it's Argentina Mauricio Macri you can find 60min on youtube.. The article was equating the NEW president being identical to Trump!
Bye Bye Evita family



The Today Show was apparently late to the Trump-is-like-Hitler story.
it was started on SNL show a couple weeks ago!


edit:
stupid Cruz all he can say is how much he wants to beat Trump but not Hillary.. what an idiot

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 21, 2016 - 07:59am PT
Fox News has turned on him

The fight has just begun
Trump vs. Fox News

hopefully it takes down Fox News, but they will probably somehow come out unscathed

I was watching it this weekend
they had a Trump speech on and the headline below was
"Trump puts down Bible and starts lying"

He just started lying??
He just put down the bible??
Pretty crazy stuff
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 21, 2016 - 08:03am PT
well Craig, when the only thing you do for news is make up lies and distort the truth it's hard to see the lies of others. 75% of the toxic blathering that comes out of his mouth is a lie. he lies every five minutes.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 21, 2016 - 08:15am PT
You guys are genuinely butt hurt about this whole Trump thing. I thought it was an act, but you're truly injured.

So, all your time tested rhetoric around the dumb Republicans just doesn't work anymore and you're just gonna throw your toys out of the pram then?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 21, 2016 - 08:22am PT
BLEB, Wrong again!

No one is injured or butt hurt
what a stupid thing to say

we all just love to watch the train wreck
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 21, 2016 - 08:22am PT
another Bern voter bites the dust!

http://endingthefed.com/trump-attacker-just-received-very-bad-news.html
dirtbag

climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 08:47am PT
"Ending the Fed": great objective source, there.



Again, your man trump incites mob violence, just like dictators do.

What individual protestors on either side do isn't the issue--they aren't running for president.

Your man is a thug and a wanna be dictator. A vote for him is a vote against democracy.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 21, 2016 - 08:57am PT
Trump is going to get hit with a tidal wave. Sane Americans are going to sweep he and his hateful bigotry out to sea.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 21, 2016 - 09:00am PT
Hopefully in the general election, not before. I want to see him nominated and wreak havoc in the Republican Party.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 09:08am PT

Church is out

Hillary beats Trump by over 10 million popular and well over 100 Electoral Votes

c wilmot

climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 09:09am PT
He is a longtime family friend of the clintons
He is a longtime supporter of the democratic party
He enjoys riling up crowds and being the center of attnetion
He worked as a "heel" or bad guy riling up crowds for the WWE
He was so good at it he is literally in the pro wrestling hall of fame
He constantly attacks Sanders and accuses him of being a rabble rouser

It seems beyond obvious Trump is simply working on the Clinton's behalf
and he is doing a great job riling up the "get er done"crowd along many others

Oh well- who needs democracy?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 21, 2016 - 09:09am PT
The last time a virulent racist gained traction in a Presidential Primary, he wound up permanently in a wheelchair.

1972

c wilmot

climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 09:14am PT
working to "ruin" the political party you oppose is why the US has become so divisive in the first place



"cant we all just get along?"

Rodney King
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 09:17am PT
So you're saying that Trump is the Democrachurian Candidate?
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 21, 2016 - 09:19am PT
c wilmot

climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 09:20am PT

Yup....
If the lie is big enough....

Never underestimate the stupidity of the US public

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 21, 2016 - 09:37am PT

Ted Cruz is saying that President Obama is wrong to have gone to Cuba, because Ted Cruz' father was tortured by former Cuban dictator Batista in the 1950's.


Wait. WHAT?????


Ted Cruz rails against Obama's historic trip to Cuba



Ted Cruz says that it's a sad day, because Obama is going to Cuba, but he won't rub shoulders with, or drink mojitos with, a group of jailed political dissidents.


Cruz is the one who's half Cuban. Why doesn't he make it a happy day, and head down there with a bottle of rum and a sack of mint leaves?






If this dolt burned his crotch with hot coffee, he would claim it was Kenyan coffee, and that it was all Obama's fault.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Mar 21, 2016 - 09:41am PT
Looks like they got a little swappin' going on...The Doner getting the short end big time on that deal
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 11:24am PT
wilmot: If you think "wealth buys political access" is a "big lie" as opposed to an "obvious truth" then your relevations are probably a lot less profound then you think.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 21, 2016 - 11:43am PT
John Oliver; just late, or fashionably late?

[Click to View YouTube Video]

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Mar 21, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
Fallaciously late.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 21, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
Ted Cruz is saying that President Obama is wrong to have gone to Cuba, because Ted Cruz' father was tortured by former Cuban dictator Batista in the 1950's.

Indeed. Another instance that it is always about them, it is never about us.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
Trump shares his thoughts about foreign policy with the Washington post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/21/donald-trump-reveals-foreign-policy-team-in-meeting-with-the-washington-post/
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Mar 21, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
Madbolter cracks me up. But Trump is getting serious now. All of his politically convenient promises, like building "the wall", will be critically re evaluated and tossed under the bus if he is elected. If he is president, the Trump stumping now will not be the one elected as he is still formulating policy. Things are very liquid.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 21, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
John Oliver's waffle irons are made in Mexico.

Won't help our trade deficits.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 21, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
I just booked a room in Chamonix. They said don't bother to come if
Le Donald is elected. I said we're coming before the election.
They said Bienvenue!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 21, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
Looks like they got a little swappin' going on...The Doner getting the short end big time on that deal

I don't know Melania from Melanoma, but fashion models are reputed to have round heels, and to be easily passed from man to man. For example, Gigi Hadid has had six boyfriends in the past year or two.



Trump's second wife Marla Maples was quoted on the front page of the New York Post:






AFTER THE CLINTON AND TRUMP MENAGE-A-QUATRE:

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 21, 2016 - 05:05pm PT
I wonder how Hillary is going to think about sitting at the desk Monica sat under...
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 21, 2016 - 05:11pm PT
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 05:23pm PT
He's got to speak tht in front of an audience that is not going to be amused with his regular schtick.

It will be interesting to see if he has a prepared speech(written for him, and not by him), or if he actually thinks he can treat the peole at AIPAC like his rally-goers.

In any event tomorrow should be a big news day of seriously appalled comments.

Edit: I see he has already dne his speech. For transcript, see http://time.com/4267058/donald-trump-aipac-speech-transcript/

edit: Read the transcript. Though I am not well versed in Israel-Palestine relations, it seems to me the speech was naive and insulting.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 21, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
According to the Washington Post article, sounds like he is taking a page out of Rand Paul's playbook.

For the first time, Trump also listed members of a team chaired by Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) that is counseling him on foreign affairs and helping to shape his policies: Keith Kellogg, Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, Walid Phares

Walid
sounds like a Muslim.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 21, 2016 - 06:21pm PT
I'll fill you in.
Nevermind, I can't watch either.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 21, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
Moose, I'm really wondering how Trump will deal with Clinton one on one. He can't just say 'It'll be great' etc. etc. He has to show some substance because Clinton can really do that; think of the 'Benghazi" hearings for 12 hours or so. Is he still serious?
Norton

Social climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 07:24pm PT

quietly and perhaps slinking to the polls in November, there are a number of SuperTopo posters who will have read every single negative, horrible, thing about Donald Trump.....and will vote for him anyway.

Just like they voted for Republican John McCain in 07 when the economy was in the grips of a the most severe recession and job losses since the Great Depression all while the economy was being governed by a Republican President, Senate, and House. The same SuperTopo thread posts then voted for Mitt Romney in 12,
and they will vote for Trump.

Oh, not because they can"defend" their Republican votes, but because they just
can't vote for a Democrat, not a black one in 08 and not a woman one now.

Why do you suppose that is?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 21, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
On Invincible Ignorance

Paul Krugman MARCH 21, 2016

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/21/opinion/on-invincible-ignorance.html?ref=opinion&_r=0

Remember Paul Ryan? The speaker of the House used to be a media darling, lionized as the epitome of the Serious, Honest Conservative — never mind those of us who actually looked at the numbers in his budgets and concluded that he was a con man. These days, of course, he is overshadowed by the looming Trumpocalypse.

But while Donald Trump could win the White House — or lose so badly that even our rotten-borough system of congressional districts, which heavily favors the G.O.P., delivers the House to the Democrats — the odds are that come January, Hillary Clinton will be president, and Mr. Ryan still speaker. So I was interested to read what Mr. Ryan said in a recent interview with John Harwood. What has he learned from recent events?

And the answer is, nothing.

Like just about everyone in the Republican establishment, Mr. Ryan is in denial about the roots of Trumpism, about the extent to which the party deliberately cultivated anger and racial backlash, only to lose control of the monster it created. But what I found especially striking were his comments on tax policy. I know, boring — but indulge me here. There’s a larger moral.

You might think that Republican thought leaders would be engaged in some soul-searching about their party’s obsession with cutting taxes on the wealthy. Why do candidates who inveigh against the evils of budget deficits and federal debt feel obliged to propose huge high-end tax cuts — much bigger than those of George W. Bush — that would eliminate trillions in revenue?

read more
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 21, 2016 - 07:48pm PT

Why do you suppose that is?

Duh. Because the Democrat candidates are sh#t.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 08:19pm PT

someone other than the 14 year old?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 21, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
Norton, that is a very good question. Maybe it's because they can't admit error, so must continue on the same path, even though they know the consequences and know they are wrong. Maybe it's like a child, unable to admit they did it. They aren't grown up. They will not accept input. They will not admit error. Etc. etc. etc.

But at least I'm ready for Escopeta; I know what you will write, but you're not thinking, only reacting. Step back a bit and see what's going on. Useless.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 21, 2016 - 09:04pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Dude Norton this youtube video taught alot..
Way more than what you POST..
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 21, 2016 - 11:29pm PT
I'm still giggling about the idea that the Donald gives a sh#t about the Torah.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 22, 2016 - 12:33am PT
Israel is incredibly important to the World.

Yes it is and until we lean on those as#@&%es enough for them to make peace with the Palestinians we're going to keep losing American lives in the Mideast for no other reason than their abausive intransigence.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 22, 2016 - 02:47am PT
WAKE UP

The situation is that the rich people are further enforcing their position, with lobbyists and bribing congressmen.


A situation with the moneyed interests controlling the government has been increasing.


The tax-reduction for the rich has fed a political force that further reduces their taxes.



A man with a giant yacht is not socially responsible.



Taxing the rich is not communism. It's America.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 22, 2016 - 05:13am PT
This is a reminder of the hot future first lady..
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 22, 2016 - 05:30am PT
Klimmer posted
I think Donald Trump is going to turn the USA around for the better. We've been heading down the wrong road for a long time. I think he's going to help get us back in a very positive way.


I'm curious what positive effects you think he's going to have. It continues to puzzle me how people who are "sick of politics as usual" have eagerly embraced someone who sets himself apart by turning "politics as usual" up to 11. Instead of half-truths he tells complete lies. Instead of walking his false statements back he doubles, triples and quadruples down on them. Instead of obstructionism, he endorses violence. In the face of a democratic system built on checks and balances, he insists that he will accomplish his vague and nebulous goals through sheet force of will. He makes campaign promises on the trail that completely contradict the platform posted on his website. He claims to be bringing fresh, new ideas but all of his policies are boilerplate conservative Republican concepts with some sort of showman twist (Mexico will pay for the wall, if you don't owe any income taxes you will send a postcard that says "I win" to the IRS).

Can you break down in specific ways how Trump will be a positive change? All I see is a cult of personality.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 22, 2016 - 05:39am PT
This is a reminder of the hot future first lady..

Who appears to be fur-friendly as well. I might have to reconsider.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 22, 2016 - 06:31am PT
But at least I'm ready for Escopeta; I know what you will write, but you're not thinking, only reacting. Step back a bit and see what's going on. Useless.

I'm intrigued. What, pray tell, was I planning to write?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 22, 2016 - 06:40am PT
On the Republican side, Drumpf scores a net negative of -33, with a favorable rating of 24% compared to 57% of voters who view him unfavorably.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 22, 2016 - 06:43am PT
If Donald firmly trounced the terrorists at AIPAC then I would have smiled.

But he didn't. Because he wants to live, even after he abandons this farcical circus run for head puppet.

Hillary won't tread there either, she's alread proven to be a good little evil puppet.

dirtbag

climber
Mar 22, 2016 - 09:05am PT
65% of Donald's fact-checked claims earned four Pinocchios, meaning that they are complete lies.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/22/all-of-donald-trumps-four-pinocchio-ratings-in-one-place/

Anyone claiming to prefer trump over Clinton because of his relative honesty should likewise earn four Pinocchios.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 22, 2016 - 09:23am PT
Nature writes:

"you do realize it was the guy wearing the american flag that got his has kicked by the piece of sh#t drumpf supporter don't you? not that facts or reality ever really mattered to you or were really apparent."



It was his partner who was wearing the Klan gear.

The guy who got stomped was carrying a sign with a Confederate Flag on it. I wouldn't stomp a guy for that, but I'm not black. But I can fully understand that reaction from a black guy being shown the Confederate Flag, especially one who had just watched some a-hole walk past him wearing Klan gear.

For homework, in human nature, try this in a bar:

Do whatever it takes to get yourself kicked out. Instead of leaving quickly and cheerfully, take your sweet time. Walk real slow, drag your feet. Talk sh#t to people, and flip everyone the bird with both hands over your head. I guarantee you'll get popped. The joints I've worked, someone who tries that stands a good chance of being rendered unable to walk - slow or otherwise.

That black guy you refer to as "the piece of sh#t" is a U.S. Airman. A Patriot, by the Milktoast definition.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 22, 2016 - 09:35am PT
Chaz posted
Do whatever it takes to get yourself kicked out. Instead of leaving quickly and cheerfully, take your sweet time. Walk real slow, drag your feet. Talk sh#t to people, and flip everyone the bird with both hands over your head. I guarantee you'll get popped. The joints I've worked, someone who tries that stands a good chance of being rendered unable to walk - slow or otherwise.

Now replace "bar" with "democratic political event" and replace "alcohol" with "inciting speech by a presidential candidate."
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 22, 2016 - 11:02am PT
Escoptea, something pretty much like this, with maybe a small variation:

"Duh. Because the Democrat candidates are sh#t."

You should take a careful look at the Republican candidates......
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 22, 2016 - 11:13am PT
You should take a careful look at the Republican candidates......

And that would do what exactly?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 22, 2016 - 11:55am PT
Get out there, GCF!
dirtbag

climber
Mar 22, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
Whoa! Really?!?!?!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 22, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
Que paso?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 22, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
Cry baby Farouk says I made him cry again
Poor baby

I had nothing to do with anyone getting banned you moron
Go blame some else you little baby
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Mar 22, 2016 - 12:20pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Mar 22, 2016 - 12:20pm PT
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 22, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
You're wrong. Hillary Clinton is an intelligent woman more than qualified to be president.

In general, Clinton has been fairly sympathetic to Wall Street and willing to work with it, even help it at times. This annoys some on the left. But do we really want a president who hates Wall Street, which is the engine house of our economy?

I don't think so.

Clinton is winning but Sanders is no loser
Make no doubt about it: Clinton remains a liberal Democrat. She and Sanders actually voted "the same way 93% of the time in the two years they shared in the Senate," according to an analysis done by The New Yorker. She is, plainly, more centrist than Sanders on most issues -- but the differences between them are hardly vast.

The main reason that Republicans, in particular, hate Clinton is that she will probably beat Trump or Cruz or anyone thrown up by the GOP in the general election.

The abuse of Hillary Clinton must stop. She's not perfect. But she's smart, experienced and compassionate, and she will step into the Oval Office better prepared to take on an exacting job in difficult times than almost anyone in recent memory.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/20/opinions/why-the-hate-for-hillary-clinton-opinion-parini/
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 22, 2016 - 12:37pm PT
Typical right wing response
Blame it on others
Never take responsibility for your actions that get you in trouble
Pretty pathetic

I liked the Braun
So to say I had a part in this is just a blatant lie

They purged themselves
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 22, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
Their job is almost, DONE!
They just have to get rid of a FEW more.

Then, they will start ATTACKING their own.

Typical SOCIALIST Tactics.
The PURGE.

Cosmic we should all stop posting then watch them purge each other with Supertopo Complaint DEPT!
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 22, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
He'll simply fire the entire muslim world and they will slink away humiliated.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 22, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
He'll simply fire the entire muslim world and they will slink away humiliated.

and he will simply order the 13 million illegals to Self Deport, and of course they will
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 22, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
Great line, due to Hillary's speech writers.



"Just how high a wall is needed to keep the internet out."



And Herr Braun too. Own up to it you bunch of whiners.


And Cosmic. I'm pretty sure hB is a Ducati man.



Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 22, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
The idiocy of the Republican candidates is truly bottomless.

I thought Trump's promise that "Mexico will pay for the wall" was about the stupidest thing I had ever heard.

Cruz has topped that whopper.

Here is what Ted Cruz just said, as if it made any logical sense at all:


After Brussels attack Cruz calls for Muslim neighborhoods to be patrolled



WTF is a "Muslim neighborhood"?

Bel Air, Brentwood, Beverly Hills, Malibu and the other super-rich Los Angeles areas? Muslims live there. Lots of Muslims live there. Those are the places that the Saudi royal family and other mideast oil barons have homes. In fact, those wealthy Muslims are the ones with the resources to fund terrorism, if they choose to do that.

Or does Cruz mean the lower-income residential areas that have Muslim people, and non-Muslim people, living there? Lower income people can feel disenfranchised, and are more susceptible to being radicalized.


What percentage of residents in a neighborhood must be Muslim for it to qualify for funding under Cruz' proposed Muslim Neighborhood Surveillance program?

How is "neighborhood" to be defined? Should they be Gerrymandered, to more efficiently utilize the federal government's surveillance apparatus? So that only specific groups are religiously profiled for surveillance?

How do the patrol cops know who is a Muslim, and who isn't? Should the government demand that all Muslims wear green Arabic calligraphy on their clothing when outside their homes?

What about Muslim symbols being spray-painted on the doors of houses by local Neighborhood Watch groups, marking them for total surveillance?




Maybe Ted Cruz was just talking out his ass, like he normally does.

But he sure sounded like he was trying to co-opt Trump's signature I Will Be Like Hitler act.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 22, 2016 - 08:16pm PT
Tom, maybe we just use Congressional Districts, as these have already been gerrymandered to the nth degree.That would keep the riff-raff out.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 22, 2016 - 08:21pm PT

Doodah bus come by heah?

Ismah relief check heah?

Moti suh?


[Click to View YouTube Video]
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 22, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
“Lyin’ Ted Cruz just used a picture of Melania from a G.Q. shoot in his ad,” Trump posted on Twitter. “Be careful, Lyin’ Ted, or I will spill the beans on your wife!”

Hahahahaha!!!!!!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 22, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
Winemaker, even if Congressional districts were used to define neighborhoods, how would they be defined according the Ted Cruz Acid Test to qualify for federal funding under his proposed Total Muslim Surveillance program?

In the complete absence of meaningful demographic correlation, Texas Ted Cruz would probably divert his Total Muslim Surveillance program towards harassing his political enemies.

Targeting Democrat-heavy districts for Total Muslim Surveillance wouldn't make any sense, at all. But, the Republicans would probably ejaculate all over each other if that plan was implemented.




Trump should keep his big mouth shut, and not talk about "spilling the beans" on other people's wives.

Melania may be a saint, but the fashion model industry is notorious for drug abuse, promiscuity and other behavioral nadirs that would be embarrassing for a First Lady.



The "beans" on Ted Cruz's wife have already been spilled, by the way.

Ted Cruz didn't report massive Goldman Sachs loan in 2012 Senate race

Heidi Cruz is a Goldman Sachs executive who was instrumental in obtaining a huge loan to finance Ted Cruz's 2012 Senate campaign. At the time, the $1 million loan wasn't reported, so that Lying Ted Cruz could claim to be self-funded from his family's personal finances, and so that Lying Ted Cruz could claim he was not a political whore who was obligated to fellate and twerk his corporate masters.

Maybe Trump has a 1989 cheerleader outfit with a semen stain on it, that he thinks is Kryptonite against Ted Cruz.



Or maybe Trump will expose Heidi as a foolish and delusional simpleton. She has said that, as First Lady, she will work to improve the living conditions of the poor.

Ted Cruz's tax plan: 23% tax cut for the wealthiest and a tax increase for the poorest
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 23, 2016 - 08:33am PT
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/large-dollars-few-donors-behind-anti-trump-effort-n543691


Trump should keep his big mouth shut, and not talk about "spilling the beans" on other people's wives.

Melania may be a saint, but the fashion model industry is notorious for drug abuse, promiscuity and other behavioral nadirs that would be embarrassing for a First Lady.

dude she is Gorgeous that's all that matters better looking than what we have had to look at..
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 24, 2016 - 07:17am PT
^^^^^

Umm..thanks pyro, I'm starting to understand all of this now. I had previously thought that Trump had so much support because his followers were stupid.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 24, 2016 - 07:21am PT
Melania is a model. Michelle is a keeper.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 24, 2016 - 07:23am PT
Michelle is an eye sore..
Melania is eye candy
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 24, 2016 - 07:35am PT
You might have to adapt your fantasies towards Bill Clinton, pyro.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 24, 2016 - 07:39am PT
Crankloon i nominate you hillary hair stylus..
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 24, 2016 - 08:40am PT
The DNC has been a centrist party since 1994. Get over it.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 24, 2016 - 08:42am PT
Michelle is an eye sore..
Melania is eye candy

Who gives a f*#k? Sheesh.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 24, 2016 - 10:32am PT
Who gives a f*#k? Sheesh.

Why does Hillary work so hard at smiling all the time?
It's obvious it doesn't come naturally.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 24, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
And now it's come to this: woman-hating Donald comparing his wife's appearance to Cruz's wife.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/03/24/cruz-to-trump-donald-youre-a-sniveling-coward-leave-heidi-the-hell-alone/


Pyro, pud, Guyman, other trump supporters, are you ok with this?

Is this presidential to you?

zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 24, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
The feud between Republican presidential contenders Donald Trump and Ted Cruz over their spouses heated up on Thursday, with Cruz calling the party front-runner "a sniveling coward" for threatening his wife on Twitter.

More important, would any Trump supporter 'hit' (either way) Cruz?

I suppose if I was Cruz I'd be a bit apprehensive inasmuch as Trump has already stated he could kill with impunity.

What does an airhead shoot? Why of course, an air gun.


dirtbag

climber
Mar 24, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
Or how about the time he mocked a disabled reporter?

(Norton--do you have that gif handy?)

Is that presidential?

Is it indicative of a man who can empathize with other people?

Is it indicative of a man who has matured normally?
dirtbag

climber
Mar 24, 2016 - 01:46pm PT
Zbrown, Ted is right about that.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 24, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
OK, I got the picture, I think I'm done now. Have at it fellas.

Shouldn't threats like that go out on the Twaatter?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 24, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
eye candy bitch..

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 24, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
Here's the picture from Donald's tweet re wives:


Donald can't stop, can he?
dirtbag

climber
Mar 24, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
No, he can't.

Is this presidential behavior to you pyro?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 24, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
It's a waste of time to reason with a Trump supporter.

Just the fact that they support Trump tells you a lot about them.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 24, 2016 - 03:00pm PT
Ok, you're right. Thanks for the reminder.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Mar 24, 2016 - 03:49pm PT
and crankster has been nominated by pyro to be Hillary's hair writing instrument
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 24, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
nd crankster has been nominated by pyro to be Hillary's hair writing instrument


recent CRANKLOON Hair STYLI!

first MAN!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 24, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Klimmer is a Trump supporter

Klimmer
Mountain climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 10:48pm PT
It's gonna come down to Hillary and Trump, and Trump is going to win.

A great speech ... he's going to be The President.

Donald Trump Speech at AIPAC Policy Conference
by Mediaite TV | 2:33 pm, March 21st, 2016
http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch-donald-trump-is-addressing-the-crowd-at-aipac-policy-conference/

Klimmer
Mountain climber
Mar 21, 2016 - 11:38pm PT

He's not perfect. Far from it. However G-d can even use a donkey for his purposes. Donald's kinda of like a bull in a China shop. But like I said G-d can use him to accomplish his will. I think he will mature. That speech to AIPAC was very presidential. He can learn.

I think Donald Trump is going to turn the USA around for the better. We've been heading down the wrong road for a long time. I think he's going to help get us back in a very positive way.

I'm not the only one seeing this of course. That's why Donald is drawing democrats, independents, and republicans.

Also he's going to bring the hottest looking First Lady to The White House we've ever had. Lol


oh yea lol, but isn't she a foreigner
I want to see her papers!!!

Klimmer never ceases to amaze me

He's not drawing liberals, in fact he has a 60% overall negative rating
that means he will never get above 40% of the vote, if he's lucky
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 24, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
http://news.yahoo.com/mexicans-burn-donald-trump-effigy-easter-ritual-220248624.html


Buahahaha
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 24, 2016 - 10:26pm PT

New York Times article on American Psycho Trump


The Economist ranks Trump a bigger risk than jihadi terrorism to the international economy


World Leaders warn that Trump is a huge risk to world peace





Trump is an internationally reviled monster, whose continued campaign in the face of such widespread condemnation clearly shows that he is a psychopath.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 24, 2016 - 10:38pm PT
Pyro, I have a vision of a list with your name on it.
Don't get the boot, we're going to need you around to be studied after the election. Why, we'll all be asking, did they support this clown?

On a lighter note, is this the guy who keeps making fun of everyone's appearance? Does he own a mirror?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 25, 2016 - 12:57am PT
Donald Trump is the insanity the gop and half the nation has descended into.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 25, 2016 - 05:31am PT
And the other half are just plain retards. Sad.....
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 25, 2016 - 07:44am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Crankloon just for you
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 25, 2016 - 07:51am PT
800 rescued from Boko Haram in Nigeria

I guess their fence wasn't high enough or maybe it was Paladin.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2016/03/25/800-rescued-from-Boko-Haram-in-Nigeria/9381458910721/


overwatch

climber
Arizona
Mar 25, 2016 - 08:02am PT
I am about halfway through pyro's video and I want to hit that Trump idiot. when do the beatings start?

Edit;

yeah sorry Essie, I don't have much patience for the willfully ignorant and obtuse.

No I don't support any of them
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 25, 2016 - 08:42am PT
“But I don’t want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked.
“Oh, you can’t help that,” said the Cat: “we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.”
“How do you know I’m mad?” said Alice.
“You must be,” said the Cat, “or you wouldn’t have come here.”
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 25, 2016 - 09:25am PT
Pyro, that's from the good ole' StL. Sad that the Bernie/Hillary crowd can't reason and only resort to emotional outbursts and violence.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 25, 2016 - 09:30am PT
Esco, that's probably about the dumbest thing you've written, and you've written some doozies.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 25, 2016 - 09:36am PT
I am about halfway through pyro's video and I want to hit that Trump idiot. when do the beatings start?

See what I mean.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 25, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
Don't be scared.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/suffering-from-trumphobia-get-over-it-1457565216



the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 25, 2016 - 06:45pm PT
The best thing ever to come out of Cruz's mouth: his new nickname for Trump.

Sleazy Donald.

Totally captures him. He's many horrible things bigot, demagogue, misogynist, narcissist, tacky, etc.

But sleazy just seems to sum it all up nicely.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 25, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
The best thing ever to come out of Cruz's mouth: his new nickname for Trump.

Sleazy Donald

Ted was the first to come up with this?

Really?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 25, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
I'm sure other people have called him Sleazy Donald previously, but Cruz is now using it in response to Trump calling him Lyin' Ted.
jstan

climber
Mar 25, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
I think this election needs to be discussed in the UN's Security Council.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Mar 25, 2016 - 08:53pm PT
Thank you Winemaker; that is the most appropriate quote in all the political threads combined.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 26, 2016 - 09:33am PT
This is the sh#t. A wonderful sketch, and Papa Pope (starting at about 3:45) tells it like it is:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 26, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
This is the sh#t. A wonderful sketch, and Papa Pope (starting at about 3:45) tells it like it is:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 26, 2016 - 04:13pm PT
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 26, 2016 - 06:58pm PT
The Republican party is literally going to destroy itself, at the Republican National Convention at Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland this coming July.

The Republicans are going to SHOOT EACH OTHER TO DEATH with their guns.



Tens of thousands sign petition to allow open carry of pistols and assault rifles at Republican National Convention



Trump says he intends to incite a riot at the Convention (if Bully Boy doesn't get his way) and the attendees want to be fully armed and ready for deadly internecine warfare.


The petition asks Ohio Governor John Kasich to use his executive authority to overturn an "unconstitutional loophole" that allows the arena's owner to ban weapons at events.


The petition claims that without their locked and loaded, cocked and locked firepower, the conventioneers will face an unacceptable risk of being ambushed and killed by as-yet unnamed attackers.


If Quicken Loans Arena maintains its ban on guns, the petitioners are asking the RNC to relocate the convention to a more firearm-friendly place, presumably a big open field with trees and boulders that the shooters can hide behind as they engage each other.



The rights of the People to redress their grievances with guns shall not be infringed, and all cruel and unusual punishment must be televised.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 26, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
I've heard these "Gun Free" zones are death traps!

If everyone isn't packing you're literally a sitting duck

I sure hope they allow guns for the convention, it's the only way to protect your safety.
What could go wrong?


dirtbag

climber
Mar 26, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
Well at least they would practice what they preach. Should be interesting if Trump's riots are happening.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 26, 2016 - 07:48pm PT
Open and carry homos...the secret service will have a field day...
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 26, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
 Robert A. Heinlein
dirtbag

climber
Mar 26, 2016 - 09:15pm PT
Have at it, then.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 27, 2016 - 12:08am PT

What could go wrong?


How about a three-way Mexican Standoff?

Trumpers versus Tea Baggers versus Old Money Oligarchs





We interrupt our normal broadcast programming to bring you this live footage from the floor of the Republican National Convention, in Cleveland, Ohio.


[Click to View YouTube Video]

overwatch

climber
Arizona
Mar 27, 2016 - 02:25am PT
I love that movie The Gandolfini Arquette Beatdown is epic
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 27, 2016 - 05:00am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 27, 2016 - 08:46am PT
I just signed the Petition!!!

They need more Guns, everyone should bring extra guns and ammo just in case of a terrorist attack, or a mob scene of Bernie supporters, those people have been a real threat to the Trump rallies, right?


actually I heard about this a couple days ago
and Libs are signing it in hoards, because we feel their pain!

We just want to help where we can.
Hate to see their 2nd Amendment rights trampled on by the man.
Nothing, and I mean Nothing! is more important than being able to exercise your 2nd amendment rights. It's right there in the Constitution, where it says a well regulated militia.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Mar 27, 2016 - 08:58am PT
Why stop at small arms? Let's expand our freedoms to tanks & other platform mounted munitions!! Maybe even allow nukuler grenades! Who's gonna mess with that?!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 27, 2016 - 09:02am PT
Here's what it'll be like.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 27, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
actually I heard about this a couple days ago
and Libs are signing it in hoards, because we feel their pain!

"Lib Hoards"
I heard penicillin can clear that up. (use the gel)

Trump may not have the support of his chosen affiliation but, I'm not sure he needs it to win.
He's not afraid of saying what needs to be said and hurting anyone's feelings in the process. That's a good thing and will benefit America in many ways. We need this right now. Our current leader's obsession with being PC has only hurt this Nation.
Trump needs work but he's still a better choice than Bernie brown nose or slippery Hillary.

Watching the GOP sink is OK. Long overdue imo. The two party system stopped working long ago.
That said, Trump's opponents are equally as good for society in general when they lose this campaign.
When the GOP dissolves, the Dems will follow within a few years,
if for no other reason than not having anyone else to blame.

Hopefully, the Millennials are prepared for the political evolution they will witness in the next decade.





monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 27, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
Trump may not have the support of his chosen affiliation but, I'm not sure he needs it to win.


The repubs have no chance, according to fivethirtyeight.com

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 27, 2016 - 02:01pm PT
He's not afraid of saying what..

...every downtrodden and bigoted xenophobe who has been relentlessly screwed in the ass by the gop thinks needs to be said despite the fact Trump was born to screw people just like them in the ass. He's the essence of 'never give a sucker an even break'.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 27, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
The Republican party is disintegrating because ever since Reagan, it has been conning voters. The GOP, since Reagan, has steadily become a party by elites, for elites. It is the party of exclusivity. The party will accept anyone's vote, but the political benefits are exclusively reserved for multinational corporations and the wealthiest people.


The GOP is still insisting that favoring the rich is a good thing, and that the benefits will "trickle down" to the lower classes. All evidence indicates that the exact opposite has occurred since the Reagan Revolution.



A perfect example of how the GOP is an elitist, exclusionary con game is their 2012 vow to increase the party's appeal to women. The stated goal was to get more of the female vote, so as to increase the GOP's chances of getting their candidates elected.

The political benefit for those same female voters? A massive campaign to recriminalize abortion, and to defund and destroy Planned Parenthood.



The GOP claims to represent the interests of common, middle Americans. This is a blatant lie, and has been the party lie since Reagan was president.

All of the GOP presidential candidates have proffered some sort of "tax reform" plan. Without exception, they all call for a massive tax cut for the richest people, with meager-to-no tax cut for the middle and lower classes. Ted Cruz has called for a historically-unprecedented reduction in taxes for the wealthy, and for an increase in taxes for the poor.



Ironically, the GOP voters who've suddenly realized they've been getting conned for the last 30 years are now flocking, en masse, to one of the greatest con artists of all time: Donald Trump. He's no different from Ted Cruz, when it comes to favoring the wealthy elites at the expense of the middle class.

Trump's tax plan calls for massive tax cuts for the rich and for corporations, and wholesale evisceration of social programs that the lower classes depend on.


Trump and Cruz both propose an unprecedented redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the very richest
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 27, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
^zactly what I been asayin' (red and blue map)
Norton

Social climber
Mar 27, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
The party will accept anyone's vote, but the political benefits are exclusively reserved for multinational corporations and the wealthiest people.

well said, Tom

they get the ever so important undereducated, white male vote largely through selling the three G's, God Guns and Gays

but back to the point, name just a couple, ok one, piece of legislation that the Republican party has delivered to their base voters in recent memory?

what exactly do you "get" when you vote Republican in November that benefits you?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 27, 2016 - 02:16pm PT
All the Homeless Camps springing up around the Country are called "Reagan Ranches"

Homeless people are now referred to as "Reagan Supporters" and are waiting for the trickle down
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 27, 2016 - 02:21pm PT
...every downtrodden and bigoted xenophobe who has been relentlessly screwed in the ass by the gop thinks needs to be said despite the fact Trump was born to screw people just like them in the ass. He's the essence of 'never give a sucker an even break'.

healyje,
Your anal obsession is showing.
I'm sure you can find someone to help you out with that. Craigslist?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 27, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
recent voting
B.S from Monolith
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 27, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
How can anyone possibly follow the Trump Twitter feed and continue to delude themselves that the man is qualified for the job of president. The feed is rehash on top of rehash of slams against others candidates, interviewers and media stories, mixed with "promises" of the glory to come when he is president.

Here are a few gems:

 "Another radical Islamic attack, this time in Pakistan, targeting Christian women & children. At least 67 dead,400 injured. I alone can solve"

He alone can solve....riggghht

 "Remember, I am the only candidate who is self-funding. While I am given little credit for this by the voters, I am not bought like others!"

Except for the fact he has "loaned" himself the funding, and will therefore be declaring it as a write-off on taxes.

 "Don't believe the @FoxNews Polls, they are just another phony hit job on me. I will beat Hillary Clinton easily in the General Election."

Easily, he thinks.....

 "The press is going out of their way to convince people that I do not like or respect women, when they know that it is just the opposite!"

And that one follows, within minutes, of
 "The media is so after me on women Wow, this is a tough business. Nobody has more respect for women than Donald Trump!"

Nobody? Really, now.... I would say half the men on this very forum who show their misogynistic tendencies have more respect that DT seems to.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 27, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
The Republicans' trickle-down economic theory is more truthfully called the Horseshit Economic Theory


When the nation's grain supply is diverted to rich people and they feed it to their horses, some will remain undigested in the horsesh#t, which other people are free to scavenge and eat when they get hungry.


monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 27, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
Pyro, too bad that chart doesn't reflect electoral votes and thus won't get him elected.

Trump can put that chart in his next 'winning' presentation and see how many more suckers he can attract.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 27, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
The political process has become so corrupted by campaign finance, lobbying and other legal bribery, proper leadership is impossible.



The Roman Republic devolved into a imperial monarchy.

The American Republic devolved into an imperial plutocracy.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Mar 27, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
Speaking of The Donald, anyone heard from Chris Christie lately?




"Somebody give me a cheeseburger"
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 27, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
For those of you having trouble deciding on who to vote for, here is a logic diagram that you can use to help make your decision...This was posted on Facebook, so it must be valid.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 27, 2016 - 08:33pm PT
Pyro, too bad that chart doesn't reflect electoral votes and thus won't get him elected.

Trump can put that chart in his next 'winning' presentation and see how many more suckers he can attract.
Monolith you are pretty damn stupid!
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 27, 2016 - 09:04pm PT
Pyro finally figures out this electoral college thing and posts http://www.270towin.com/ which makes no predictions for the tossup states.

Good Job, Pyro.

I'll go with fivethirtyeight.com. They got 49/50 states right in 2008 and 50/50 states right in 2012.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Mar 27, 2016 - 09:09pm PT
Too bad Pyro equates land mass with votes.

I got a $1,000 dollars that says Trump loses.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 27, 2016 - 10:37pm PT

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexicans celebrating an Easter ritual late on Saturday burnt effigies of U.S. Republican presidential hopeful Donald Trump, whose anti-immigrant views have sparked outrage south of the American border.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 27, 2016 - 10:44pm PT
Stoopid Mexicans, they made the hands way too big...
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 27, 2016 - 11:20pm PT
Bob D'A, how about taking that $1000 and giving it to Bernie to help make sure Trump loses?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 28, 2016 - 01:28am PT
BEEN THERE, DONE THAT



THE ASCENDENCY OF DIDIUS JULIANUS TO THE THRONE

After the murder of Pertinax (28 March 193), the Praetorian assassins announced that the throne was to be sold to the man who would pay the highest price.[17] Titus Flavius Claudius Sulpicianus, prefect of the city, father-in-law of the murdered emperor, being at that moment in the camp to which he had been sent to calm the troops, began making offers,[18] whereupon Didius Julianus, having been roused from a banquet by his wife and daughter,[19] arrived in all haste, and being unable to gain admission, stood before the gate, and with a loud voice competed for the prize.[20]

As the bidding went on, the soldiers reported to each of the two competitors, the one within the fortifications, the other outside the rampart, the sum offered by his rival. Eventually Sulpicianus promised 20,000 sesterces to every soldier; Julianus, fearing that Sulpicianus would gain the throne, then offered 25,000.[21] The guards immediately closed with the offer of Julianus, threw open the gates, saluted him by the name of Caesar, and proclaimed him emperor.[22] Threatened by the military, the Senate declared him emperor.[23] His wife and his daughter both received the title Augusta.


THE DEATH OF DIDIUS JULIANUS

Julianus was killed in the palace by a soldier in the third month of his reign (1 June 193).[44] (The Roman General Septimus Severus marched on Rome, and seized control). Severus dismissed the Praetorian Guard and executed the soldiers who had killed Pertinax.[45] According to Cassius Dio, who lived in Rome during the period, Julianus's last words were "But what evil have I done? Whom have I killed?"[3] His body was given to his wife and daughter, who buried it in his great-grandfather's tomb by the fifth milestone on the Via Labicana.[46]


(Wikipedia, based on other sources)





MONEY TALKS.

TALK IS A FORM OF SPEECH.

FREE SPEECH IS PROTECTED BY THE CONSTITUTION.

MONEY IS CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED FREE SPEECH.

RESTRICTING MONEY AS A FORM OF SPEECH IS PROHIBITED BY THE CONSTITUTION.

MONEY CONTROLS COMMUNICATION AND INFLUENCE DURING ELECTIONS.

MONEY CONTROLS THE GOVERNMENT AND TAXATION POLICY.

REDUCED TAXES ON THE WEALTHY ALLOWS THEM TO FURTHER CONTROL THE GOVERNMENT.

THE WEALTHY TAKE CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT.

PLUTOCRACY = A SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED BY WEALTHY PEOPLE.



BTW, the assassinator of Didius Julianus was Septimus Severus, who became Emperor, and who later passed control of the Roman Empire to his sons Caracalla and Geta. Caracalla murdered his own brother, Geta, in the arms of their mother, so he could assume total control.

Caracalla has gone down in history as "the enemy of all mankind". He notoriously allowed his troops to rampage and despoil the city of Alexandria because of a theater production that ridiculed him.

Caracalla was later murdered by a bodyguard when he stopped to take a piss.



Caracalla was a thin-skinned narcissist who obtained power, and abused it.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Mar 28, 2016 - 01:31am PT
Where's the real Americanator who can lead the USA?

I'd vote for this guy

http://www.dickmarcinko.com/
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 28, 2016 - 05:08am PT
When TRUMP becomes president i bet he WONT take a day off..
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 28, 2016 - 05:26am PT
I'm with ya, pyro. I'm pulling for Trump.

Nothing assures a Democratic win more in Nov.

Who's going to vote for him? Hispanics? Nope. The "blacks"? Nope. Women? Not many.

His loss will be huge. Fantastic. Just not enough angry, white men.

The Democrat's convention is going to look like a love-in compared to the GOP's war in Cleveland this summer. There's battle lines being drawn. Nobody's right if everybody's wrong.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 28, 2016 - 05:45am PT
#
#
#
#DONALD TRUMP IS CULTIVATING A CULT OF PERSONALITY



[Click to View YouTube Video]




He knows your anger. He knows your dreams. He knows he's the one you need.


He is, a of cult of personality. A cult of personality. A cult of personality.


Neon lies.

Nobel Prize.

When that leader speaks, that leader lies.

He's the one who has the lies that speak.

Only you can set you free.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 28, 2016 - 06:03am PT
How can anyone possibly follow the Trump Twitter feed and continue to delude themselves that the man is qualified for the job of president. The feed is rehash on top of rehash of slams against others candidates, interviewers and media stories, mixed with "promises" of the glory to come when he is president.

Donald Trump has figured out exactly what it takes to become president of the US. A relentless reiteration of confidence that he is the front runner and the eventual winner. Nothing more.

Look at any poll on the topic, the majority of people (insert sheeple) want to vote for the winner, not the person that lines up with their values. Every time he claims he's winning and that he will win gets him one more vote in the dumbing down of the elections.

He doesn't care about the issues, he cares about the psychology of the voters. And make no mistake, Hillary doesn't care about the issues either, she's just not as good at the psychology.

Regardless, a vote for either is nothing more than falling into the trap.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 28, 2016 - 06:33am PT
That's probably the only insightful and accurate post Escopeta has made. Well stated.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 28, 2016 - 07:37am PT
A relentless reiteration of confidence that he is the front runner and the eventual winner.






THE LITTLE DONNY WHO THOUGHT HE COULD

tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 28, 2016 - 09:43am PT
Just trying' to help a brother out, couchmaster. With so many threads & so little time that logic tree provides some badly needed clarity. It is only the future of our country & the planet that are at stake here.

Which one is it going to be?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 28, 2016 - 09:46am PT
Woot! False dichotomies are my favorite!
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 28, 2016 - 09:51am PT
Hillary vs Trump

steelmnkey

climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
Mar 28, 2016 - 10:02am PT
Anyone see the news this morning?

Ivanka, daughter of The Donald, actually named her recently delivered kid TED!!!!
(technically Theodore, but still...)
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 28, 2016 - 10:14am PT
Trump immediately disowned the kid for having bigger hands than his.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 28, 2016 - 10:36am PT
Where is the baby's long form birth certificate?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 28, 2016 - 10:42am PT
I'm sure Trump made them print an extra long one just for him.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 28, 2016 - 10:58am PT
Looks like Trump if you ask me....


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/satan-rib-steak-mexico-photo_us_56f517d8e4b0143a9b47e2e1

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 28, 2016 - 11:16am PT
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 28, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
I think Trump got his campaign strategy from Zaphod Beeblebrox in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. By continuing to be outrageous, he's dominated the "news," whose campaign coverage stopped being about issues decades ago. As American citizens evolved into lovers of bread and circuses, what can be more entertaining (at least for someone who doesn't care about the future of the country) than watching Trump demonstrate that his shamelessness has no limits?

John
dirtbag

climber
Mar 28, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
Bingo.

I read an article a month or so ago describing a meeting he had with republican officials a few years ago, in which he stated his presidential ambitions. He told them he could generate a lot of free coverage and suck the oxygen out of the room, leaving other candidates flailing. He's been wildly successful at that. I understand the adage that there is no such thing as bad publicity, but he's generated very strong negative feelings in the process.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 28, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
I understand the adage that there is no such thing as bad publicity, but he's generated very strong negative feelings in the process.

dirt 33million was spent on negative media ad's towards TRUMP go figure..
dirtbag

climber
Mar 28, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
Yes, and by far he has the highest unfavorable ratings of any presidential candidate in the
past 25 years or so. If he hopes to expand his voting bloc beyond his fervent base, he has some work to do. But as long as he keeps acting like an as#@&%e bully towards other candidates' wives he is going to have a tough time.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 28, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
Heidi Cruise (courtesy of zapTrump and of course S.CW))

tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 28, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
the Game of Thrones analogy...

zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 28, 2016 - 07:34pm PT


healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 28, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
He doesn't care about the issues, he cares about the psychology of the voters. And make no mistake, Hillary doesn't care about the issues either, she's just not as good at the psychopathy.

fixed that for you...
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 28, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
Lenore for Veep, if not Pres.




Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 28, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 28, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
Damn!!!!!!!! Where are our 2nd Amendment rights????? What do the Republicans say about this destruction of our Constitutional freedom(s)??????

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/secret-service-squashes-call-for-guns-to-be-allowed-inside-republican-convention/
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 28, 2016 - 10:46pm PT
I signed that petition early on. The goal was 500 at the time. When it came out it was blatantly obvious the purpose - to point out the gun nut hypocrisy. It was well played. Apparently there's enough brain dead that still don't get it. If anyone thought for a minute (or still does) open carry is a good idea at the RNC then, well, they must be a Drumpf voter. It's just not - but I'm sure there is still more than enough gun nuts still drooling on themselves over the thought.

If Drumfp doesn't make 1237 to get the automatic nod then it's going to get batshit crazy and guns won't help. Honestly, I really hope Drumpf does get to that number to simply save lives. Because if he does the chances of him getting the nomination are probably less than 50%. I suspect Ryan gets the nod at that point (especially considering how much Cruz is hated). That'll cause riots from way too many old angry white people.

And plus, there's nobody other than Drumpf i'd like to see run against the democratic nominee. Hillary will kick his ass. Mr. Sanders will obliterate him. It'll be a riot to watch his supporters as well as Drumpf sue over his loss.

Thing is, I'm not even sure he'll get that far. People are deserting him. Good times, these.

Drumpf’s Top Strategist Just Quit And Wrote This Brutal Open Letter To Drumpf Voters

http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/03/28/trumps-top-strategist-just-quit-wrote-brutal-open-letter-trump-voters/



So in other words the democratic nominee crushes Drumpf by way more delegates than drumpfstick gets. He has exactly zero path to 270. Biggest landslide pretty much ever. Although I do suspect Nate Silver doesn't go 50 out of 50 this time around. I'm not so sure about Arizona. They have far too many mexican rapists running around for the kind people of that state to not notice. BUILD A FIFTY BILLION DOLLAR WALL TO FIX THE F*#KING PROLEM.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 29, 2016 - 07:04am PT
Idaho passed Constitutional carry yesterday.

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 29, 2016 - 07:19am PT
Good for you guys.

They still want to put people in prison here for having too many bullets in their magazines.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 29, 2016 - 07:38am PT
Look on the bright side, you aren't allowed magazines in Kali. So you've got that going for you.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Mar 29, 2016 - 07:42am PT
For those of you "supporters" that were probably too lazy to click through two links... for the love of God... please listen to this woman.
Reality check.

Open letter from former Trump strategist Stephanie Cegielski



Even Trump's most trusted advisers didn't expect him to fare
this well. Almost a year ago, recruited for my public relations
and public policy expertise, I sat in Trump Tower being told
that the goal was to get The Donald to poll in double digits
and come in second in delegate count. That was it.

The Trump camp would have been satisfied to see him polling at
12% and taking second place to a candidate who might hold
50%. His candidacy was a protest candidacy.

It pains me to say, but he is the presidential equivalent of
Sanjaya onAmerican Idol. President Trump would be
President Sanjaya in terms of legitimacy and authority.

And I am now taking full responsibility for helping create this
monster — and reaching out directly to those voters who,
like me, wanted Trump to be the real deal.

My support for Trump began probably like yours did. Similar
to so many other Americans, I was tired of the rhetoric in
Washington. Negativity and stubbornness were at an all-time
high, and the presidential prospects didn't look promising.

In 2015, I fell in love with the idea of the protest
candidate who was not bought by corporations. A man who
sat in a Manhattan high-rise he had built, making waves as
a straight talker with a business background, full of successes
and failures, who wanted America to return to greatness.
I was sold.

Last summer, I signed on as the Communications Director
of the Make America Great Again Super PAC. It was still
early in the Trump campaign, and we hit the ground running.
His biggest competitor had more than $100 million in a
Super PAC. The Jeb Bush deep pockets looked to be the
biggest obstacle we faced. We seemed to be up against a
steep challenge, especially since a big part of the appeal
of a Trump candidacy was not being influenced by PAC money.

After the first debate, I was more anxious than ever to
support Trump. The exchange with Megyn Kelly was like manna
from heaven for a communications director. She appeared
like yet another reporter trying to kick out the guest
who wasn’t invited to the party. At the time, I felt
excited for the change to the debate he could bring. I
began realizing the man really resonates with the masses
and would bring people to the process who had never
participated before.

That was inspiring to me.

It wasn't long before every day I awoke to a buzzing
phone and a shaking head because Trump had said something
politically incorrect the night before. I have been
around politics long enough to know that the other side
will pounce on any and every opportunity to smear a candidate.

But something surprising and absolutely unexpected happened.
Every other candidate mis-estimated the anger and outrage
of the “silent majority” of Americans who are not a part
of the liberal elite. So with each statement came a jump
in the polls. Just when I thought we were finished,
The Donald gained more popularity.

I don't think even Trump thought he would get this far.
And I don’t even know that he wanted to, which is perhaps
the scariest prospect of all.

He certainly was never prepared or equipped to go all the
way to the White House, but his ego has now taken over the
driver's seat, and nothing else matters. The Donald does
not fail. The Donald does not have any weakness.
The Donald is his own biggest enemy.

A devastating terrorist attack in Pakistan targeting
Christians occurred on Easter Sunday, and Trump’s response
was to tweet, "Another radical Islamic attack, this
time in Pakistan, targeting Christian women & children.
At least 67 dead, 400 injured. I alone can solve."

Ignoring the fact that at the time Trump tweeted this
(time-stamped 4:37 p.m.) the latest news reports had
already placed the number differently at 70 dead, 300
injured, take a moment to appreciate the ridiculous,
cartoonish, almost childish arrogance of saying that
he alone can solve. Does Trump think that he is making
a cameo on Wrestlemania (yes, one of his actual credits)?

This is not how foreign policy works. For anyone. Ever.
Superhero powers where "I alone can solve" problems are
not real. They do not exist for Batman, for Superman,
for Wrestlemania and definitely not for Donald Trump.

What was once Trump's desire to rank second place to
send a message to America and to increase his power as
a businessman has nightmarishly morphed into a charade
that is poised to do irreparable damage to this country
if we do not stop this campaign in its tracks.

I'll say it again: Trump never intended to be the candidate.
But his pride is too out of control to stop him now.
You can give Trump the biggest gift possible if you are a Trump supporter: stop supporting him.

He doesn't want the White House. He just wants to be able to
say that he could have run the White House. He’s achieved
that already and then some. If there is any question, take
it from someone who was recruited to help the candidate
succeed, and initially very much wanted him to do so.
The hard truth is: Trump only cares about Trump.

And if you are one of the disaffected voters — one of the
silent majority like me — who wanted a candidate who could
be your voice, I want to speak directly to you as one of his
biggest advocates and supporters.

He is not that voice. He is not your voice. He is only Trump's
voice. Trump is about Trump. Not one of his many wives.
Not one of his many "pieces of ass." He is, at heart, a self-preservationist.

In fact, many people are not aware of the Trump campaign's
internal slogan, but I will tell you. It is stolen from
a make-believe television presidency onThe West Wing where
Martin Sheen portrayed President Bartlet. The slogan on
the show amongst the idealistic group of Bartlet's staff
was “Let Bartlet Be Bartlet.”

Inside the Trump camp, the slogan became
"Let Trump Be Trump."It is a repurposed slogan that seemed
spot-on for the candidate. He is an intelligent, charismatic
man who is involved in every aspect of his organization and
would rather speak from the cuff than read briefing notes
and recite them. I, in fact, admire Trump for this.
But saying this qualifies him to be president is like
saying that Seth Rogen is suited to be president. Another
extraordinary improviser, not an extraordinary presidential
candidate.

Trump has undoubtedly lived up to the slogan, right down
to his main public-relations liaison. Rather than go for
a focus-group Washington insider, his communications
person had previously taken press calls for the
Trump Organization and directed them to the appropriate
Trump child. She joked that before joining the campaign
she thought "Common Core" was a class at Equinox.

The primary problem with this? What I've seen the longer
I've helped prop him up along with the millions who are
helping Trump is that we got the slogan wrong. A more
accurate internal slogan would read, "Let Trump Help Trump."

I don't dismiss any single Trump constituent, which is
why I believe it's important to let you know that the
candidate does.

I, too, think our country has gone off track in its values.
I, too, think that we need a dramatic change of course.
But I am, in my heart, a policy wonk and a believer
in coming to the table with necessary knowledge for leading
the free world.

The man does not know policy, nor does he have the humility
to admit what he does not know — the most frightening
position of all.

I remember watching the second Trump debate and thinking, 
After this, he is going to have to start hammering it home
on policy; the country needs substance to make an informed
decision.

I wished for it six months ago and am still waiting for it
today. He had an opportunity after the terror attacks
in Belgium and instead he used the opportunity to talk
about closing the borders and what a mess that country
had become. I was appalled that he offered no condolences
or words of support; he merely gave his "build a wall"
stump speech and talked about his greatness.

I felt sad for him at that moment.

And now, with the latest horrifying terror attack in Pakistan,
my sadness has turned into anger.

I consider myself a part of the silent majority that
led to Trump’s rise, which is why I want you to know
that I am with you — I wanted Trump to be real, too.

He is not.

He even says so himself. His misogyny? That's the character.

His presidential candidacy? That's a character, too.

The problem with characters is they are the stuff of
soap operas and sitcoms and reality competitions — not political legacies.

Trump made me believe. Until I woke up.

And he has no problem abusing your support the same way
he cheated hard-working men and women out of millions of
dollars, for which he is now being sued.

I came into this eager to support a savvy businessman
who received little outside funding. I loved Trump's
outsider status. But a year has now passed since I was f
irst approached to become part of Team Trump.

While the pundits pontificated about what type of PR
stunt Trump had up his billion-dollar sleeves, I met
with people who convinced me he was serious about
changing the political conversation. I wanted to raise
millions for him. I wanted to contribute to millions of votes.

And as part of that support, in October, I supported
the internal decision to close the Super PAC in order
to position him as the quintessential non-politician.
 I still supported him with great passion after that.
The decision to close the Super PAC was part of that
devotion to his message of outsider change.

But something was shifting.

Without intending to do so, I began to hear and
evaluate him more critically and skeptically as a
member of the voting public rather than a communications
person charged with protecting his positions.

I no longer felt that he was the leader the country was
looking for, and I found myself longing — aching, really —
for policy substance that went beyond building a wall and
making Mexico pay for it. What were once bold — although
controversial — statements now seemed to be attempts
to please the crowds, not direction to lead this country
to a better place. I began to realize his arrogance and
isolation had taken over and were now controlling his message.

And here's what he tapped into: the unprecedented,
unbelievable anger. Because we are all angry — and we all
have a right to be. But Trump is not our champion.
He would stab any one of his supporters in the back if it
earned him a cent more in his pocket.

Unfortunately, the more vitriolic Trump has become, the
more the people responded to him. That drove him to push
the boundaries further and further.

I also started seeing a trend of incompetence and deniability.

When there was a tweet that contained an error,
he would blame it on an intern; when there was a photo
containing a World War II Nazi Germany background,
he would blame it on an intern; when he answered questions
in an overtly controversial fashion, he would claim
that he did not properly hear the question. He refused
to take responsibility for his actions while frequently
demanding apologies from others.

Imagine Trump wronged you, even in the smallest possible way.
He would go to the grave denying he had ever done anything
wrong to you — ever.

Trump acts as if he's a fictional character. But like Hercules,
Donald Trump is a work of fiction.

No matter how many times he repeats it, Trump would not be
the "best" at being a president, being in shape, fighting
terrorism, selling steaks, and whatever other "best" claim
he has made in the last 15 minutes.

He would be the best at something, though. He is the best
at looking out for Donald Trump — at all costs.

Don’t let our country pay that price.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 29, 2016 - 07:45am PT
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/03/28/trump_super_pac_director_stephanie_cegielski_writes_letter_on_why_she_s.html

"He's ugly and his feet don't match."
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 29, 2016 - 07:48am PT
I wonder how that would read if we replaced 'he' with 'she' and 'Trump' with 'Clinton'?

I'm betting it would be pretty accurate give or take a few points....

My favorite, posting up for The Duck's benefit....

dirtbag

climber
Mar 29, 2016 - 07:56am PT
To trump, women are objects to dominate. A vote for Trump is a vote for a misogynist. Very presidential.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 29, 2016 - 08:01am PT
If I were Stephanie Cegielski I'd be watching my 6 o'clock rigorously for, like, forever!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 29, 2016 - 08:04am PT
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 29, 2016 - 08:40am PT
First - Whatever happened in Benghazi?

Sucks Cosmic, read the findings of more than half-a-dozen congressional investigations, plus an 11-hour hearing. That should cure your question.


But I have a question about Benghazi--why would Clinton purposely sabotage the embassy there?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 29, 2016 - 08:56am PT

But I have a question about Benghazi--why would Clinton purposely sabotage the embassy there?





Because....






























BENGHAZI!!!!!11111111
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 29, 2016 - 09:00am PT
They knew about her email server and were dealt with accordingly.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 29, 2016 - 09:07am PT
So...Mr. Trump's campaign manager has been arrested for assaulting reporter Michelle Fields a few weeks ago.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/03/29/corey_lewandowski_arrested_on_assault_charge_in_michelle_fields_case.html
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 29, 2016 - 09:16am PT
I'm not worried, Trump will sue, and pay all legal expenses.

That's what makes America grate!



BENGHAZI!!!!!11111111


Indeed!

The voice of reason, the voice of Ron!
dirtbag

climber
Mar 29, 2016 - 09:21am PT
Mr. Trump's campaign manager lied about touching Ms. Fields (as shown in the video in this link). Any other candidate would fire him. So, will Mr. Trump fire him given this lie, and his arrest?

Probably not!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/29/corey-lewandowskis-arrest-should-matter-to-donald-trump-it-wont/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_lewandowski-1140a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

This will be interesting to watch, and will provide some insight as to how a Trump Asministration would handle misbehavior by his surrogates, which happens in all administrations.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 29, 2016 - 11:15am PT
the charges are from a hillary connection in law enforcement not a non partisan law enforcement officer.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 29, 2016 - 11:48am PT
Nice try, Trump Apologizer. Michele Field, formerly with pro-Trump publication "Brierbart" filed the police report. It's all there on video, and it sure looks like an assault.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 29, 2016 - 12:00pm PT
the charges are from a hillary connection in law enforcement not a non partisan law enforcement officer.

And that is why the woman-grabber turned himself in after lying about not touching her. Perfect.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 29, 2016 - 12:37pm PT
Keep at it dirt that video doesnt do justice..
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Mar 29, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
K-man posted
But I have a question about Benghazi--why would Clinton purposely sabotage the embassy there?

Not sure anyone said that, but she probably had the vodka flu and slept through the 3 AM phone call from her unsecured Blackberry, then had to call the terrorist attack a citizen protest against a video, to run cover over a miserably failed US supported insurrection just before the election.
If only she was there, she coulda run across the airport tarmac under fire to save the day.
(sarcasm now off)

Not sure any laws were broken, just another day at the office for Hillary...yawn.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 29, 2016 - 04:07pm PT
...why would Clinton purposely sabotage the embassy there?

Well, first off it wasn't an embassy...
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 29, 2016 - 05:29pm PT
Apparently there is a Trump du jour story that he said, in an interview, that he made abusive comments toward/about women in the past because "I never thought I would run for office."

Now I know this isn't going to make one bit of difference to a lot of his followers, but really now..... [Click to View YouTube Video]

edit: I just noticed the book title Bugs is reading.... punny, considering the referred to maroon's propensity for his vanity hair style
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 29, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
Well, first off it wasn't an embassy...

Shows you what I know. I had thought that if we had an ambassador, that they lived in an embassy. Now I see, it was an "American diplomatic compound."

Well I'm not sure if that helps or hurts my point, which is this: What is the conspiracy theory about why Clinton would let the attacks happen.

If the Republicans are just trying to show that Clinton was derelict in her duties as Secretary of State, that's some pretty weak sauce, and a huge waste of investigative money.

MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Mar 29, 2016 - 05:52pm PT
My greatest hope this year

is that "POTUS"

will be yet another check

on the long list:

The failed ventures

of Donald Drumpf.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 29, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
Oscar the Grouch is a doper, man?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 29, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
An Open Letter to Trump Voters from His Top Strategist-Turned-Defector

http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/03/28/trumps-top-strategist-just-quit-wrote-brutal-open-letter-trump-voters/

Even Trump’s most trusted advisors didn’t expect him to fare this well. Almost a year ago, recruited for my public relations and public policy expertise, I sat in Trump Tower being told that the goal was to get The Donald to poll in double digits and come in second in delegate count. That was it. The Trump camp would have been satisfied to see him polling at 12% and taking second place to a candidate who might hold 50%. His candidacy was a protest candidacy.

It pains me to say, but he is the presidential equivalent of Sanjaya on American Idol. President Trump would be President Sanjaya in terms of legitimacy and authority. And I am now taking full responsibility for helping create this monster — and reaching out directly to those voters who, like me, wanted Trump to be the real deal.

My support for Trump began probably like yours did. Similar to so many other Americans, I was tired of the rhetoric in Washington. Negativity and stubbornness were at an all-time high, and the presidential prospects didn’t look promising.

In 2015, I fell in love with the idea of the protest candidate who was not bought by corporations. A man who sat in a Manhattan high-rise he had built, making waves as a straight talker with a business background, full of successes and failures, who wanted America to return to greatness.

I was sold. Last summer, I signed on as the Communications Director of the Make America Great Again Super PAC. It was still early in the Trump campaign, and we hit the ground running. His biggest competitor had more than $100 million in a Super PAC. The Jeb Bush deep pockets looked to be the biggest obstacle we faced. We seemed to be up against a steep challenge, especially since a big part of the appeal of a Trump candidacy was not being influenced by PAC money.

After the first debate, I was more anxious than ever to support Trump. The exchange with Megyn Kelly was like manna from heaven for a communications director. She appeared like yet another reporter trying to kick out the guest who wasn’t invited to the party. At the time, I felt excited for the change to the debate he could bring. I began realizing the man really resonates with the masses and would bring people to the process who had never participated before.

That was inspiring to me. It wasn’t long before every day I awoke to a buzzing phone and a shaking head because Trump had said something politically incorrect the night before. I have been around politics long enough to know that the other side will pounce on any and every opportunity to smear a candidate.

But something surprising and absolutely unexpected happened. Every other candidate misestimated the anger and outrage of the “silent majority” of Americans who are not a part of the liberal elite. So with each statement came a jump in the polls. Just when I thought we were finished, The Donald gained more popularity.

I don’t think even Trump thought he would get this far. And I don’t even know that he wanted to, which is perhaps the scariest prospect of all.

He certainly was never prepared or equipped to go all the way to the White House, but his ego has now taken over the driver’s seat, and nothing else matters. The Donald does not fail. The Donald does not have any weakness. The Donald is his own biggest enemy. A devastating terrorist attack in Pakistan targeting Christians occurred on Easter Sunday, and Trump’s response was to tweet, “Another radical Islamic attack, this time in Pakistan, targeting Christian women & children. At least 67 dead, 400 injured. I alone can solve.”

Ignoring the fact that at the time Trump tweeted this (time-stamped 4:37 p.m.) the latest news reports had already placed the number differently at 70 dead, 300 injured, take a moment to appreciate the ridiculous, cartoonish, almost childish arrogance of saying that he alone can solve. Does Trump think that he is making a cameo on Wrestlemania (yes, one of his actual credits)?

This is not how foreign policy works. For anyone. Ever. Superhero powers where “I alone can solve” problems are not real. They do not exist for Batman, for Superman, for Wrestlemania and definitely not for Donald Trump.

What was once Trump’s desire to rank second place to send a message to America and to increase his power as a businessman has nightmarishly morphed into a charade that is poised to do irreparable damage to this country if we do not stop this campaign in its tracks.

I’ll say it again: Trump never intended to be the candidate. But his pride is too out of control to stop him now. You can give Trump the biggest gift possible if you are a Trump supporter: stop supporting him.

He doesn’t want the White House. He just wants to be able to say that he could have run the White House. He’s achieved that already and then some. If there is any question, take it from someone who was recruited to help the candidate succeed, and initially very much wanted him to do so.

The hard truth is: Trump only cares about Trump. And if you are one of the disaffected voters — one of the silent majority like me — who wanted a candidate who could be your voice, I want to speak directly to you as one of his biggest advocates and supporters.

He is not that voice. He is not your voice. He is only Trump’s voice. Trump is about Trump. Not one of his many wives. Not one of his many “pieces of ass.” He is, at heart, a self-preservationist.

In fact, many people are not aware of the Trump campaign’s internal slogan, but I will tell you. It is stolen from a make-believe television presidency onThe West Wing where Martin Sheen portrayed President Bartlet. The slogan on the show amongst the idealistic group of Bartlet’s staff was “Let Bartlet Be Bartlet.”

Inside the Trump camp, the slogan became “Let Trump Be Trump.”

It is a repurposed slogan that seemed spot-on for the candidate. He is an intelligent, charismatic man who is involved in every aspect of his organization and would rather speak from the cuff than read briefing notes and recite them. I, in fact, admire Trump for this. But saying this qualifies him to be president is like saying that Seth Rogan is suited to be president. Another extraordinary improvisor, not an extraordinary presidential candidate.

Trump has undoubtedly lived up to the slogan, right down to his main public-relations liaison. Rather than go for a focus-group Washington insider, his communications person had previously taken press calls for the Trump Organization and directed them to the appropriate Trump child. She joked that before joining the campaign she thought “Common Core” was a class at Equinox.

The primary problem with this? What I’ve seen the longer I’ve helped prop him up along with the millions who are helping Trump is that we got the slogan wrong. A more accurate internal slogan would read, “Let Trump Help Trump.”

I don’t dismiss any single Trump constituent, which is why I believe it’s important to let you know that the candidate does.

I, too, think our country has gone off track in its values. I, too, think that we need a dramatic change of course. But I am, in my heart, a policy wonk and a believer in coming to the table with necessary knowledge for leading the free world.

The man does not know policy, nor does he have the humility to admit what he does not know — the most frightening position of all.

I remember watching the second Trump debate and thinking, After this, he is going to have to start hammering it home on policy; the country needs substance to make an informed decision.

I wished for it six months ago and am still waiting for it today. He had an opportunity after the terror attacks in Belgium and instead he used the opportunity to talk about closing the borders and what a mess that country had become. I was appalled that he offered no condolences or words of support; he merely gave his “build a wall” stump speech and talked about his greatness.

I felt sad for him at that moment.

And now, with the latest horrifying terror attack in Pakistan, my sadness has turned into anger.

I consider myself a part of the silent majority that led to Trump’s rise, which is why I want you to know that I am with you — I wanted Trump to be real, too.

He is not.

He even says so himself. His misogyny? That’s the character.

His presidential candidacy? That’s a character, too.

The problem with characters is they are the stuff of soap operas and sitcoms and reality competitions — not political legacies.

Trump made me believe. Until I woke up. And he has no problem abusing your support the same way he cheated hard-working men and women out of millions of dollars, for which he is now being sued.

I came into this eager to support a savvy businessman who received little outside funding. I loved Trump’s outsider status. But a year has now passed since I was first approached to become part of Team Trump.

While the pundits pontificated about what type of PR stunt Trump had up his billion-dollar sleeves, I met with people who convinced me he was serious about changing the political conversation. I wanted to raise millions for him. I wanted to contribute to millions of votes.

And as part of that support, in October, I supported the internal decision to close the Super PAC in order to position him as the quintessential non-politician. I still supported him with great passion after that. The decision to close the Super PAC was part of that devotion to his message of outsider change.

But something was shifting.

Without intending to do so, I began to hear and evaluate him more critically and skeptically as a member of the voting public rather than a communications person charged with protecting his positions.

I no longer felt that he was the leader the country was looking for, and I found myself longing — aching, really — for policy substance that went beyond building a wall and making Mexico pay for it. What were once bold — although controversial — statements now seemed to be attempts to please the crowds, not direction to lead this country to a better place. I began to realize his arrogance and isolation had taken over and were now controlling his message.

And here’s what he tapped into: the unprecedented, unbelievable anger.

Because we are all angry — and we all have a right to be. But Trump is not our champion. He would stab any one of his supporters in the back if it earned him a cent more in his pocket.

Unfortunately, the more vitriolic Trump has become, the more the people responded to him. That drove him to push the boundaries further and further.

I also started seeing a trend of incompetence and deniability.

When there was a tweet that contained an error, he would blame it on an intern; when there was a photo containing a World War II Nazi Germany background, he would blame it on an intern; when he answered questions in an overtly controversial fashion, he would claim that he did not properly hear the question. He refused to take responsibility for his actions while frequently demanding apologies from others.

Imagine Trump wronged you, even in the smallest possible way. He would go to the grave denying he had ever done anything wrong to you — ever.

Trump acts as if he’s a fictional character. But like Hercules, Donald Trump isa work of fiction.

No matter how many times he repeats it, Trump would not be the “best” at being a president, being in shape, fighting terrorism, selling steaks, and whatever other “best” claim he has made in the last 15 minutes.

He would be the best at something, though. He is the best at looking out for Donald Trump — at all costs.

Don’t let our country pay that price.

This letter originally appeared on XOJane.com
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 29, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
The woman didn't even work for the Trump campaign. She worked for the PAC. You people can't even get your mud flinging straight. Plus let's post the wall of text again.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 29, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
Talk to the hand
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 29, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
It's a match..
Norton

Social climber
Mar 29, 2016 - 08:29pm PT
Why would it possibly matter in the least if she worked directly for Trump or for
one of his supporting PACs?

The point is that she is saying that she used to believe in and support Trump
and has now changed her mind and why.

Personally I don't think anyone really cares what she thinks, as people have made up their minds pretty much on who they are going to vote for, Dem or Repub anyway
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Mar 29, 2016 - 09:03pm PT
^^^

try to love again

Reminds me of a song, since we are off-topic already:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 29, 2016 - 09:33pm PT
Trump has become the liberal Bugbear.

On Bill Maher tonight, I watched Bill reluctedly make a choice between Trump & Cruz, as the least horrible Republican candidate.

Then he gargled with bleach & puked ------- twice.

I am far more scared of Cruz: because he says he is a religious fundamentalist, claims to talk with God, was the most hated man in Congress, & appears to be more electable in a contest vs Clinton Or Sanders.

& he looks as evil as he is.

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 29, 2016 - 10:25pm PT
Fritz - Yup. As nutty as it is Cruz is an even worse candidate than Drumpf. I'll have to watch Bill try not to vomit over the idea of eating his own sh#t in the form of Cruz and grabbing a spoon and slurping up some Drumpf vomit. It's poetic justice, really. Good thing there is no path to 270 for either.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 29, 2016 - 11:12pm PT
I'd pick Cruz for president over trump, simply because with Cruz, I could go to sleep most nights and not wake up the next morning worrying whether we bombed some country while I slept because it's leader made fun of his hair. I.e., I trust Cruz's temperament more. With trump, who the hell knows, the guy is erratic.

It's a low bar, I know.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Mar 30, 2016 - 12:21am PT
trump or cruz?

now that is a pick-for-president dilemma for the ages...

does one pick:
 the sociopathic narcissist or the narcisstic sociopath?
 the man who believes he "alone has the solutions" or the man who believes he speaks with god?
 the man who wants to build a border wall or the man who wants to patrol "muslim neighborhoods"?
 the man who probably started his campaign as a publicity stunt or the man who probably started his campaign because he believes god spoke to him?
 the man who would likely start a war because of a perceived insult to his wife or the man who would likely start a war because of a perceived insult to his god?
 the man who physically embodies grotesqueness born of excess or the man who physically embodies creepiness born of a lizard wearing a zippered on mask made of human skin?



yeesh. if someone held a gun to my head i'd probably go with trump. and all i'd be going on is the following intuition:

where trump gives me more of a four f's vibe [forgive my crassness: but that's the find, feel, f*#k, forget version of the four f's], cruz gives me one of the strongest dead eyed serial killer vibes i've seen in quite some time.



jayzeus... this republican race makes the ending of requiem for a dream seem positively life affirming in comparison...
perswig

climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 12:39am PT
OK, it's early and I'm a bit punchy, but that ^^ is some spot-on, funny/scary stuff.

Not that I'm enthused about choices on the other side, mind you.
Thanks to nah000, MB1, esco, NutAgain!, Degaine and many others for quality posts here and over in the Bernie thread. This election cycle may a sh#t-show, but it seems to have provoked a lot of soul-searching and some asymmetric thinking.

Dale
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 30, 2016 - 01:50am PT
Typical Trump supporter:

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 30, 2016 - 06:53am PT

Look at the FB ADD..
Finally getting 15dollar an hour.. THUGS


Good quality post...
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 06:54am PT
I'm sure that's totally real.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 30, 2016 - 07:55am PT
WOW! An honor to be the first-ever presidential candidate in a primary- to be endorsed by the National Border Patrol Council. WE WILL BUILD THE WALL-- WE WILL MAKE AMERICA SAFE AGAIN! Thank you.

Donald Trump
dirtbag

climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 08:29am PT
Here's a pretty compelling read from a conservative about why trump is this country's #1 security threat. It's an interesting look at his foreign policy and a thorough takedown. But perhaps the most frightening take home point is that Trump is willfully ignorant (he provides several examples of this) about practically every foreign policy issue he addresses. Having a president who is uninterested in learning is extremely alarming.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/foreign-policy/why-trump-is-a-national-security-threat/
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 30, 2016 - 08:36am PT
So we found a new boogeyman and the boogyman is us? That's hilarious. Now Trump is the #1 security threat. I thought the Militia fools that took over the wildlife refuge was the the nation's #1 security threat. You guys really should get your boogeymen straight prior to the election.

<Break>

This election, like many before it will hinge not on how many votes the candidate gets, but by how many people stay home and don't vote.

I certainly am not willing to underestimate just how much people hate Hillary.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 30, 2016 - 08:45am PT
dirtbag today is Burrito Wednesday in celebration of the 55ft WALL!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 08:57am PT
Escopeta posted
So we found a new boogeyman and the boogyman is us? That's hilarious. Now Trump is the #1 security threat. I thought the Militia fools that took over the wildlife refuge was the the nation's #1 security threat. You guys really should get your boogeymen straight prior to the election.

I'm pretty straw men are our nation's greatest security threat. Though it might be your posting.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 08:59am PT
I rarely bother to read Esco anymore.

Anyway, trump supporter pepper sprays protestor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/03/30/after-alleged-groping-teen-trump-protester-pepper-sprayed-by-trump-supporter-outside-wisc-rally/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpprotester-730am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 30, 2016 - 09:03am PT
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/28/scripps-college-censures-racist-pro-trump-message/


Sounds like a bunch of you and the butthurt college girl have a lot in common.


+++++++++++++++++++++
In a campus-wide email Saturday with the subject heading “Racist Incident,” the Scripps College student body president denounced those who scrawled a pro-Donald Trump message on a whiteboard affixed to a student’s door.

“This morning, a Mexican-American Scripps student woke up to find her whiteboard vandalized with the phrase: ‘#trump2016,’” wrote Scripps senior Minjoo Kim. “This racist act is completely unacceptable.”

She said campus security forces had been notified of the incident and expressed hope of finding “the person responsible so they can be held accountable for their actions.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
dirtbag

climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 10:46am PT
Judicial Watch: Obama Administration Withholds Draft Whitewater Indictment of Hillary Clinton
MARCH 28, 2016
http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-obama-administration-withholds-draft-whitewater-indictment-of-hillary-clinton/

OMG!!!11!1!1


I actually read that article, and it is a fine example of a non-big deal "VERY BIG DEAL!1!1!1!1!" which of course has been the basis for most of the incessant Hillary bashing for the last 25 years.

Then again, you think Noah's Ark was found on the moon, so there you go.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 11:15am PT
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/jarrettislam.asp

I was shocked...SHOCKED at how easy it was to disprove this garbage.

Apparently the likelihood of someone using the word "sheeple" in a sentence correlates strongly with the speed at which they will blindly believe everything they find on Facebook.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 11:39am PT
Another lol.

Klimmer, that whitewater stuff happened over 20 years ago. I have no idea what the statute of limitation is for whatever it is she supposedly did (what did she supposedly do, anyway?) but that sheet is big time stale. Government agencies routinely withhold draft documents for practically everything so again, no big deal, grand jury deliberations are confidential, even Hillary has a right to privacy, yadayada yada.

But because illuminati and Muslims including Preisdent Hussein Obama and Jarrett are involved, yep its all undoubtedly true.

In the words of the great patriot Nathan Hale, ""I only regret that I have but one f*#k to give for my country."



tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Mar 30, 2016 - 11:46am PT
I guess when you support a Pathological Liar like Trump you will believe and repeat just about anything. Facts and details don't matter...they just get in the way.

Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 30, 2016 - 11:47am PT
HDDJ! Thanks for the Snopes link.

Klimmer believes all the unbelievable schist he reads. Undoubtedly, he won't believe the Snopes article on Valerie Jarret, since it is true.

Contrary to common rumor, however, neither Jarrett nor her parents are Iranian, nor (as far as we can tell) are any of them Muslim. Jarrett's parents, James E. Bowman and Barbara Taylor Bowman, were both American-born U.S. citizens from Washington, D.C. and Chicago, respectively; the couple merely lived in Iran for about six years in the late 1950s and early 1960s while James served as chair of pathology at Nemazee Hospital in Shiraz as part of a program that sent American physicians to work in developing countries.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/jarrettislam.asp
dirtbag

climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
Klimmer, you're really bottom feeding for sources, as usual.

Anyway, the stuff about Jarrett is the same old dog whistling racist bullshit used to depict Obama and other people of color associated with him as radical foreign Muslims. I.e., the same whackadoodle crap that Trump championed.

(As Lee Atwater astutely observed, you can't simply call black folks "niggers" anymore because of political correctness. Sigh...the good old days when America was GREAT.)

So yes Klimmer, you should vote for trump. Do it, man, he's your kind of bigot.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
Well Klimmer,

seeing as how personal ethics and honesty seem so important to you

then explain how you support Donald Trump when he is chronic liar

he lies daily, his lies are the stuff of legend

he was awarded politifact's Lie of the Year award, for his not one but many lies

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/dec/21/2015-lie-year-donald-trump-campaign-misstatements/

so tell us Klimmer, how can you support such a cereal liar?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
The Bull in the China shop is getting more presidential every day.

Ummm, no, he isn't.

Today he told St. Norbert's College students in DePere, WI that (I paraphrase) "you should always surround yourself with unsuccessful people, because they will look up to you and listen to you."
dirtbag

climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 12:46pm PT
Have a nice day, Klimmer. I mean that. I hope you're able to get out this week and enjoy the sunshine.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 30, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
Obama lied to us big time. But Muslims think lying is honorable.

Oh, same as Christians then.

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
Klimmer

You are proof of the depth of the human gene pool

Now go deny human evolution to your high school students

While reaching behind to feel your coccyx, your tail bone.

Then look in the mirror and admire your canine teeth.

Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 30, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
Are you upset that the truth is out and Obama has been very deceptive? Sorry for bringing down your illusion. I voted for Obama the first time, not the second, and not the third now with Hillary.

If you're not voting for Hillary because she is also "deceptive" perhaps you ought to reconsider?

[url="http:/http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/28/hillary-clinton-honest-transparency-jill-abramson"]http:/http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/28/hillary-clinton-honest-transparency-jill-abramson[/url]

Curt
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 30, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
So Trump thinks abortion should be totally illegal and women who get abortions should be punished. Transcript from an interview with Chris Matthews:

Matthews: “Should abortion be punished? This is not something you can dodge.”

Trump: “Look, people in certain parts of the Republican Party, conservative Republicans, would say, ‘Yes, it should’”

Matthews:“How about you?”

Trump: “I would say it’s a very serious problem and it’s a problem we have to decide on. Are you going to send them to jail?”

Matthews: “I’m asking you”

Trump: “I am pro-life...you go back to a position like they had where they would perhaps go to illegal places but we have to ban it. There has to be some form of punishment”

Matthews: “For the woman?”

Trump: “Yeah...[the type of punishment would] “have to be determined.”
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 30, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
^^^ Your BS posts do not trump FactCheck. Sorry.

Curt
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Mar 30, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
You have your head buried in the sand.

One of us clearly does.

Curt
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 30, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
On the moon, next to Noah's ark.
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Mar 30, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
Looks like dude just barely has his head OUT of the sand!

Just sayin'
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 04:22pm PT
Would it be ironic if Jill Abramson was fundamentally dishonest?

jezSayin'
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 30, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
Some of these are a stretch, but in all, pretty enlightening:

Donald Trump Made Up Stuff 71 Times In An Hour
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 30, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
I understand Klimmer's perspective completely

Alex Jones and the rest of the illuminati are big Trump supporters
Trump will bring on the needed apocalypse
Jebus will resurrect!!
and the good Christians will be Saved!!!
Can't wait for the Rapture, only the most "G-D" favored will be lifted to Heaven!!..!!1166

And Finally, all the biblical scriptures will be fulfilled as prophesied!!!

Yea!!!

So if you can't except the eminent coming of "something that will or will not happen"
"you have your head in the sand"
Norton

Social climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
Donald Trump Made Up Stuff 71 Times In An Hour

does not matter to people like Klimmer who will support Trump regardless

and then whip out their hypocrisy by claiming "lying" is their reason to not support someone else
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 30, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
Donald Trump Made Up Stuff 71 Times In An Hour


That link is one of the funniest things I've seen. Trump just spouts complete nonsense, in total opposition to facts, videotape and common sense. It's like he was going for a world's record of continuous lying, without saying anything that is true.




Trump's self image seems to be that of a magical, or God-like entity, capable of creating alternate realities by merely speaking them into existence.




Playground Trump, during a recent interview:


I didn't start it (the best-looking wife feud)

That's the argument a five-year old makes.

No it isn't.






Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 30, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
Trump is a con-man. He lies right to your face, as if it was the truth.

Hillary is a politician. She promises one thing, and then delivers another.



They are different tentacles of the same sordid octopus.

zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 30, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Kinda begs the question what were:

Harry Truman
Dwight Eisenhower
Richard Nixon
JFK
LBJ
Judas Priest
BJ Clinton
Bushes
O'Bama
Spiro Agnew
J. Ford
Ahab the Arab

?

Doesn't it?





MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Mar 30, 2016 - 08:29pm PT
Donald may be opening up plenty of new women's prisons to house the illegal abortion scofflaws for...

10 years if caught? After the trauma of illegal abortion?

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Oh, wait - he recanted later.

So, never mind.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 30, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
Fun to watch Trump take the GOP down in flames with him. So well deserved.
You can sense it, right? It's coming.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Mar 30, 2016 - 11:03pm PT
[my apologies for a bit of a meandering screed... if you've got patience there is a point eventually...]

that clip of trump above makes me suspect that barring a clinton indictment [which although unlikely is probably not as completely far-fetched a possibility as some continue to think,] it's pretty clear that the u.s. is going to wake up in sevenish months to another president clinton.

and if that happens then we can all look forward to what will likely be an even zanier/scarier election season in another four years.

'cause anybody who thinks that a president clinton is going to make the u.s. less polarized is probably waking up from a 25 year coma right about now.



that's why now that bernie is effectively out of it, i'm beginning to convince myself that i'm not just being contrarian and am with sincerity starting to hope for a trump presidency, if the only other option is a clintonion one...

realistically, given the drumpf's intolerance for objective reality and willingness to completely ostracize 50.8% of the voting electorate [as indicated by the video above] i highly doubt it'll happen during this cycle... still, i'm hoping for it now because i think a trump presidency would be a bit like a scary but necessary controlled burn.



there is a significant populace in the u.s. that has been condescendingly abused, ignored, and stolen from for decades now, and unfortunately whether it is due to a failed education system, a lack of spiritual practice/awareness or who knows what other [combination of] root cause[s], rather than focusing on the true root [themselves and the enabling insiders that have created the situation that the u.s. now finds itself in] they are rather focused on the outsiders: immigrants, mexicans, muslims, etc.

and so the problem, from my perspective, of another four years of a status quo driven clinton presidency is that the emotional rotting dead fall is going to continue to accumulate.

and due to a continuation and reinforcing of the status quo, the fuel will only pile higher and so the grounded but irrationally directable emotional energy will become that much more primed for a more competent manipulator to set a spark to...



remember how small but fervent the support for sarah, the witch-hunter from wasilla, was?

[Click to View YouTube Video]

[jump to 7:30 in the video above for the good stuff]

because, as should be evident at this point, it is a straight line from palin to trump. the only changes are that the fuel has become drier, it has become more plentiful and it has therefore become more able to jump historical firebreaks.

and so in the same way that trump is a more sophisticated candidate than palin was, if clinton gets four years, it's going to be a straight line from the relatively crazy of trump to whatever bigger crazy is going to inevitably be created by four more years of status quo...

and so while i accept that a controlled burn is hardly ever "controlled" and there is certainly risk, i am starting to conclude that a trump presidency might do some good, because of the high likelihood of its ultimate failure to, at this point, completely jump the firebreaks that the somewhat civilized society of the u.s. still appears to contain, while at the same time consuming some of the rotting emotional deadfall that the u.s. is beginning to have it's undergrowth be overwhelmed by.



anybody who thinks that clinton will help to draw down some of that fuel, doesn't understand who clinton has shown herself to be over the last 25 years, they don't understand emotions and/or they don't understand the roots that trump is tapping into.

she would only postpone and exacerbate the fire that needs to be burnt...

[as always, imesho]
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 30, 2016 - 11:19pm PT
It amuses me that people think electing the first woman president in US history is a vote for the status quo.

Really, you have no idea that would be true.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 30, 2016 - 11:21pm PT
But the Donald will be sooo presidential.
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Mar 30, 2016 - 11:35pm PT
*
*
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Mar 31, 2016 - 12:41am PT
But the Donald will be sooo presidential.

He's going to party like it's 1973.


DONALD TRUMP --------------> RICHARD NIXON
COREY LEWANDOWSKI ---------> H.R. HALDEMAN
HOPE HICKS ----------------> JOHN EHRLICHMAN


Trump and his staff are engaged in a criminal conspiracy.

Trump's campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, has been arrested for assaulting a female journalist. Trump and his communications director, Hope Hicks, have conspired with Lewandowski to cover up the crime, to lie about evidence, and to intimidate witnesses and the victim.

There are probably a hundred cell phone videos of the incident. Everybody who was filming Trump caught the assault, too. At least a few of those are going to make it to the prosecutor's desk. If Trump and Company try to dissuade people from handing over the video evidence, there will be some Nixonian obstruction of justice charges handed down.


Trump is an early starter.

Usually, a would-be president waits to be elected and sworn in before he commits crimes that can land him in prison.


What did Trump know, and when did he know it?





The Trump show just won't stop rolling over people.

15-year old girl is sexually assaulted and pepper sprayed outside Trump rally in Wisconsin


15-year old girl is sexually assaulted and pepper sprayed by Trump supporters in Wisconsin






For some lighter circus fare, Trump's second wife is on Dancing With The Stars


pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 31, 2016 - 06:30am PT
Check out all these bottom feeding TRUMP haters..

Tom trump seems to always have a FOXY female by his side..
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 31, 2016 - 08:24am PT
Love Trump's reasoning about why his campaign manager shouldn't be charged.

"He's a guy with a great family, kids and all."

We should now see this defense popping up in courtrooms all over the country.
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Mar 31, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
Pyro posted:

Check out all these bottom feeding TRUMP haters..

Tom trump

Tom Trump? Get off the bong.

...seems to always have a FOXY female by his side..

Yeah, because as POTUS, that is so important to the rest of the world.

Pyro - thanks for showing your true colors.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 31, 2016 - 05:34pm PT

Love Trump's reasoning about why his campaign manager shouldn't be charged.

"He's a guy with a great family, kids and all."

We should now see this defense popping up in courtrooms all over the country.

Yeah, and he has run for elective office, in Massachusetts, four times, and lost. As trump would say " he's a loser"
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Mar 31, 2016 - 06:52pm PT
The Trump hate drum beat is getting louder. Who cares if he loses, at least he's drawn the Ire of the progressive liberal tards and government apologists.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 31, 2016 - 06:58pm PT
Maybe it's that he's a hateful type of guy, but he is not qualified to be president of the U.S. or even the local KKK chapter.

He certainly cannot think on his feet (or most likely anywhere).

To wit:

His responses to Chris Matthews last night and the total rewrite that was required.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Mar 31, 2016 - 07:36pm PT
The best part was after 9:45 or so.
Watching Mr. Trump try to accuse Mr. Matthews of apostasy, and squirming his way around what the penalty for an abortion should be. Priceless.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 31, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
The inescapable bottom line here is it's pure idiocy to think trump brings anything whatsoever positive to the table, even as a disruptor. Just the fact that trump and cruz managed to become candidates tells you how ignorant, manipulated and ludicrously susceptible to pandering the gop base has become. I mean, it's like passing out candy to third graders at this point.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Mar 31, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
Trump plays the take no prisoners tough guy with all the answers to what ills America but when it came to fielding any of Matthews simple question's on abortion , the cat had Trumps tongue knowing that his punish the women stance would provide the media with a field day of negative press...Mr. tough guy turns out to be just another rich as#@&%e with a limp dick and no balls...
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 31, 2016 - 09:24pm PT


Like any of the potential candidates are going to change the inevitable.




Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 1, 2016 - 02:36am PT
Love Trump's reasoning about why his campaign manager shouldn't be charged.

"He's a guy with a great family, kids and all."




Richard Kuklinski was also a guy with a great family, kids and all.

Richard Kuklinski, contract killer for the mob, claims 200+ murders in interviews


Kuklinski's great family had NO idea what he was up to.



Lewandowski isn't Kuklinski. But, Trump's exoneration argument has to take into account other malcreants with "great families, kids and all".




I feel a great pity for Joseph Goebbels' children, who were put to death by him, when he realized his own vaporous aspirations of greatness would fall short.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 1, 2016 - 04:05am PT
The best music for the Trump campaign, courtesy of Oingo Boingo



[Click to View YouTube Video]



LISTEN: to the words
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 1, 2016 - 05:18am PT
Klimmer, your firmly held beliefs are admirable and I applaud you for professing them and (presumably) instilling them in you family.

That's the way the whole thing is supposed to work, you have your beliefs, you live by them and profess them to whatever extent you feel is appropriate.

However, if you are suggesting that the government be used as the ultimate enforcer and manager of that belief system then this is my stop, I get off here.

The government is a poor enforcer of feelings and that role is best left to society, churches, family and each individual's moral compass.

If, by way of your beliefs, you are proposing that the government continue to meddle in the lives of individual then quite frankly you are no different than the rest of the retards on here that want to use the government for what THEY think is right and just.

And I will fight you over it regardless of whatever righteous higher ground you might claim.

Make no mistake, a fight is coming. Sadly, at this rate its looking like it will be between two groups that each want the government to do their bidding as opposed to proponents of freedom and personal liberty.

Which equates to nothing more than idiots fighting over a Christmas Doorbuster sale TV at THE Wal Mart.


survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 1, 2016 - 07:36am PT
I actually understand Nah000's post from the previous page. I have worried about exactly the same stuff.

Although I'd rather stick hot needles in my eyes than see Trump as president.

How a man of God like Klimmer can embrace that kind of bigoted, xenophobic, racist, misogynistic evil escapes me.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 1, 2016 - 07:39am PT
The IF in What IF.. most people missed that part of the question toward Trumps backtrack..
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Apr 1, 2016 - 08:10am PT

He does not care about our country

Fixed it for you.
btw, your rants are the stuff of make believe, and not credible. G-damnit!
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Apr 1, 2016 - 08:22am PT
Hey I got number 5000!


Whatever that means. Lol

It means G_d loves you! Today anyway....
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 1, 2016 - 08:23am PT
In a nutshe ... er ... nutcase

This was Donald Trump's worst week of his campaign since he lost Iowa to Ted Cruz exactly two months ago. To recap: On Tuesday, his campaign manager was charged with misdemeanor battery. Also on Tuesday, he backed away from his pledge to support the whomever becomes the GOP nominee, giving his Republican critics extra ammunition against him. On Wednesday, he suggested on MSNBC that he would advocate punishing women who seek an abortion, angering both abortion-rights supporters and opponents. (He later backtracked from that abortion statement.) And on top of it all, he finds himself trailing in Wisconsin, which holds its primary on Tuesday. Make no mistake: After Wisconsin, the primary calendar looks much more favorable for Trump, with the map turning to New York (April 19), Connecticut (April 26), Delaware (April 26), Maryland (April 26), Pennsylvania (April 26), and Rhode Island (April 26). But there's a reason why Trump was meeting with Republican National Committee officials in Washington yesterday -- he's got to start getting a better handle on the delegate rules, especially if the nomination is going to come down to a handful of delegates.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Apr 1, 2016 - 08:24am PT
Abortion is genocide. It is clearly murder.

Just so we're clear, stating your personal opinion as fact doesn't make it one.

Curt
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Apr 1, 2016 - 08:37am PT
Trump doesn't stand the remotest chance of becoming president.

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/31/11336884/donald-trump-polls-winning

Curt
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Apr 1, 2016 - 08:39am PT
Curt,

Convince me it's not.

I don't care if I change your opinion or not, I'm merely pointing out that it is only an opinion.

Curt
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 1, 2016 - 08:41am PT
"He is right on all the issues that people of faith care about. Hillary is wrong on all the issues."


Like banging your daughter, three wives, current wife is soft porn star. Cheater, liar, cheat on wives.




This sh#t doesn't get any funnier from "people of faith" .


Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 1, 2016 - 09:02am PT
They never let an outsider in ultimately.

In the end, this is absolute stone reality. And the fact that both parties of our government have been faux arguing over the music selection while the Titanic sinks still clearly hasn't settled in for people.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 1, 2016 - 09:19am PT
And back to reality...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/march-jobs-report_us_56fe6c5de4b0a06d58056916
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 1, 2016 - 09:24am PT
Convince me it's not.

It is impossible, you are one of those guys...common here at ST
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 1, 2016 - 09:24am PT
"Curt,

Convince me it's not.

I don't care if I change your opinion or not, I'm merely pointing out that it is only an opinion.

Curt



How do you convince someone who believes in flying little angels, a flying man in the sky with a white beard who "created" the world and believes the Donald is a christian???
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 1, 2016 - 10:01am PT
Well this is pretty creepy.................

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 1, 2016 - 10:13am PT
Does he hold many Christian views, opinions, and statements of belief?

What would those be? I'll give you that he has "said" he is pro-life(though I think it is very likely the man has sown the seed that has ended in at least a few abortions).

What are the "many" other xian views he professes?

However, I do believe, that if there were to be a God, who planned an executed schemes, then yes - she could and is using DT for greater purposes. That purpose would be the final unveiling of how badly GOP supporters have been being used to further the agenda of the wealthiest corporate holders in our country.

It's going to be real hard for your average Joe to have much faith in GOP after this affair is complete. Donald will not go down without a fight. He will go down, that much is clear to pretty much everyone(so if you aren't in that set, just remember this paragraph in the time between the RNC and election results), but he will be furious when he sees he cannot "win." You think he spouts shite now, just wait until he has no need to remain on good terms with the few people/groups he is counting on for support.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 1, 2016 - 10:21am PT
I have no intention of going any further into research than asking you to list them. Feel free to cut and paste, but don't ask me to do the work when it is you who is trying to convince.

Edit: I did listen to his AIPAC speech in full, when he made it. I cannot believe that anyone doesn't realize that speech was written FOR the man, for the express reason of not providing a very powerful, and vocal, organization. from skewering and roasting him on a spit.

If an interviewer asked, off the cuff, for DT to recap his talking points from that speech, I have the feeling he could not even do it.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 1, 2016 - 10:25am PT
Our western law has its historical roots clearly in the Judeo/Christian values -- The 10 Commandments, The Torah, the Law of Instruction from G-d.

"Thou shalt not Murder."


Abortion is genocide. It is clearly murder. And we've made it legal? Where are we America? Seriously. Where are we? We are lost. We have turned our backs on G-d.

Abortion should only be allowed for the health of the mother, incest, and rape. Abortion is not birth control, it is murderous genocide. It can't be called anything less. Where are your morals? In a garbage can?

Klimmer I don't expect you to be open to learning because your worldview is based on faith, not reason so you probably are incapable of being able to see things may be different than you need to believe. But here goes.

Those judeo/Christian values are likely based on the older code of Hammurabi, which in turn was based on older laws. Your religion didn't start or have a monopoly on justice or what is right or wrong. It included helpful steps along the way to where we are now in my opinion, but we are not based on it anymore than say the manga carta. Your religious ideals helped influence our laws and morals but it's self centered and bigoted to think your religious beliefs should apply to everyone. That's what Isis thinks. We are a constitutional democracy not a theocracy. The founding fathers were smart enough to know people have different views and developed a system to help people of different beliefs live together.

If you want to fight abortion volunteer at an orphanage or adoption agency don't try to limit abortion by restricting it's access to people who don't have the same beliefs as you.

You believe a soul comes into an embryo. Others don't. I can see why you think abortion is murder but to others who don't share your views a clump of cells is not a person. The mother gets to decides if she wants that clump of cells to develop into a person and be born into a good environment. You don't get to impose your views of things with no proof, only faith, into others lives.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 1, 2016 - 10:26am PT
why would anyone vote for such a prolific liar as Donald Trump?

he lies so constantly that he was awarded Politifact's "Lie of the Year" Award

not just for one whopper of a lie, but for all the many, many lies he tells

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/dec/21/2015-lie-year-donald-trump-campaign-misstatements/

"Values Voters" and "Family Values" are supposed to mean honesty

Trump over and over proves he is the least honest politician, Realty TV star, out there

Anyone who supports Donald Trump to be Commander In Chief of the USA is
knowingly supporting a racist, bigot, very dishonest, inexperienced, woman hater

how can you pretend he is a "values" candidate when he calls women sluts, said
he would date his own daughter, and say that he likes the idea of a woman on her knees in front of him, look it up, don't believe, how stupid are you to support this pig?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 1, 2016 - 10:28am PT
He can't and won't win because he is one of the dumbest, empty- headed individuals to ever run for office. America is finally waking up. He is crashing big-time. Don't let the wreckage swallow you.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 1, 2016 - 10:56am PT
Oh....well then, that settles it!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 1, 2016 - 11:01am PT
Hey Klimmer, want to put some money on that? Didn't Cruz say (his) God told him to run for president? There are a lot of different gods out there Klimmer, and each is just as real as yours.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 1, 2016 - 11:07am PT
he lies so constantly that he was awarded Politifact's "Lie of the Year" Award

Oh, I like those guys. That's the award our current president won, right?

You remember, something about "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it?".

Sorry, I interrupted you, what were you saying about electing a lying scumbag?

TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Apr 1, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
The government is a poor enforcer of feelings and that role is best left to society, churches, family and each individual's moral compass


Churches and families can work out their own issues with beliefs, but Government is exactly how society does (attempt) to enforce common beliefs about individual behavior towards others. Are you proposing some alternate method by which society should do this, perhaps try the honor system to discourage murder, theft and fraud?

If, by way of your beliefs, you are proposing that the government continue to meddle in the lives of individual then quite frankly you are no different than the rest of the retards on here that want to use the government for what THEY think is right and just

How is this different to your view that Government should only do what YOU think is right and just? A belief based on political philosophy is no better or worse, no more right or wrong than a religious one, the conceit that your idea of Government is the only "correct" one is no different than a dogmatic belief in a one true God. We can't prove or disprove the existence of God, but we know that Freedom and Liberty was the natural state, and it didn't work. A purely Libertarian government is so self-evidently ineffective that it's never once been attempted in the history of mankind.

TE
Norton

Social climber
Apr 1, 2016 - 12:58pm PT
You remember, something about "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it?".

wow, Escopeta, are you really as lacking in critical thinking skills as you seem to be?

I have read the entire ACA twice now and I assume you have read it also.

I have it in of front of me, what page, what section, where does it say that you can't keep your own doctor or healthcare plan, as the President was referring to the ACA when he made that entirely correct statement?

but seeing as how you are trying real hard to call someone a "liar" then know that when you go vote for Republican Trump or Cruz in November that you are knowingly voting for a constant, prodigious liar, but then, you know that already.
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 1, 2016 - 12:59pm PT

Donald Trump will win the Presidency.

Jacking off kills many more babies than abortion, so why not just quit jerking it?
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, California
Apr 1, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
It's been prophecied to happen. It will happen all to G-d's glory, and the prayers of the saints who care about this country and who have been on their knees and hands for a very long time making intersession asking for G-d to intervene and turn our nation around.

I love it when people assume that their God would favor making one nation or another greater, ha ha. The USA, whose citizens, corporations, government, and military are the few percent of the world's population that sucks up 25% of the planets resourses and does a fair amount of environmental damage as well.

Aren't we something? Wanting for our lord to even the score with the world or purge the undesirables from our populace? The Ugly American strikes again, soon to be the Nazi American if we don't do our research, study factual history, and stop being such greedy, hateful little selfish pigs.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 1, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
escopeta let's not forget how NORTON was coming up with those FAKE maps the other day... norton your a lair lair pants on fire.!!!!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 1, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
Thank (Klimmer's) God, it's over!!!!!!!!!

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 1, 2016 - 02:20pm PT
escopeta let's not forget how NORTON was coming up with those FAKE maps the other day... norton your a lair lair pants on fire.!!!!

No kidding. He doesn't even have enough sense to realize that the same people that he was crowing about that gave Trump the "Liar of the Year" award gave the same award to our illustrious $10 Trillion Dollar Man President.

I'm not on the Trump bandwagon but dang its fun watching the blind partisans try to continue to make it seem like their candidate is less of a liar. That's funny.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 2, 2016 - 01:27am PT
But there is only The One True G-d. The G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, The Father YHVH (as to not pronounce the name out of respect the Hebrew letters are said only, Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey).


So, before the advent of Judaism, there was no true god? Just false gods?

Or, are you saying that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, et al, co-opted and rebranded an existing true god?

Was Judaism specifically invented to monopolize access to this one true god?

Do people of other faiths have access to this one true god, without having to deal with Judaism?


Islam is based on the idea that Mohammed was a prophet, like Abraham, Isaac, Jesus, etc., and that he was exposed to the latest, greatest information regarding the one true god of those prophets.

So, the god of Islam is the same as the god of Judaism. Both faiths worship what they claim is the one true god, which makes sense if they are both talking about the same ecclesiastic entity.


Why are the Muslims and Jews fighting in the Middle East? Over market share and access to the one true god?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 2, 2016 - 01:59am PT
Dude, just to be entirely clear, the whole god thing slid into the shitter the day the Romans lifted Sabazios from the Phrygians with the final blow being Donald 'Balaam' Trump's 'hooves-n-horns' candidacy sending the gop straight to hel. So unpleasant to see you of all people spewing blasphemia all day in support of such a upélos usurper.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 2, 2016 - 06:58am PT
Klimmer, my God, the One True God of Rodak, says your god is the false one. What now? He/she who believes harder wins?
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 2, 2016 - 07:37am PT
Another good one, Tom
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 2, 2016 - 08:06am PT
God waited 14 billion years so he can finally have a love child on one out of the trillions of the planets so the people he created in his image can surrender to, for their only possible salvation.

All others are damned to hell.

How can that make sense to anyone?

Here's one way to look at it.
It's all about what you accept as the truth.

I was taught that evolution is true, and all evidence I see supports that truth.
So when I see something that contradicts evolution I immediately conclude it's false.

Religious people have been "Taught" and "believe" and have "faith" that their religion is always true and supersedes any information that contradicts what their religion teaches.

It's easy to deny science, critical thinking, climate change, rational thought and all the other scientific contradictions because these things are all superseded by the teachings that are straight from "GOD".


All I can say is we have to keep Religion out of our Government and politics completely.
Religion has always been used as a type of mind control,
and it always works as oppression.

Religious zealotry is working fervently to fight these issues,
LBGT rights, abortion, tax rates, birth control, pre-martial sex, minority rights, free public education, voting rights, science, environmental regulations, etc.
John M

climber
Apr 2, 2016 - 09:14am PT
perhaps you should study up on the antichrist.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 2, 2016 - 09:22am PT
Which great America are we to return to? The one where blacks were lynched? The one where a woman was dragged from the Boston Marathon, because no women were allowed, in 1969!!!
Maybe the great America where blacks had to serve in segregated units during the Korean war? AMERICA IS GREAT, NOT WAS!!
That's the most basic failure of all in The Hairs thinking.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 2, 2016 - 09:56am PT
Lots of good ol' Christians right here. Lock n load bishes!!

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-militants-bigger-threat-america-isis-jihadists-422743.html
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 2, 2016 - 10:38am PT
In biblical terms, isn't the antichrist one who rises to power with the support of his/her people for two years, only to bring terrible things upon the world?
John M

climber
Apr 2, 2016 - 10:56am PT
so how do you prove that Locker? scientifically..

remembering that at one time science could not prove that the earth was round.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 2, 2016 - 11:08am PT
John M wrote: so how do you prove that Locker? scientifically..

remembering that at one time science could not prove that the earth was round.




The burden of proof does not fall on the non-believers, we are not the ones making such outrageous claims.
John M

climber
Apr 2, 2016 - 11:17am PT
Locker was trying to make the point that religious people say " we know" when we should say.. "we believe". But I believe that I know enough to say " I know". So will continue to say it. ..And yes. I realize that I can not satisfy your scientific proof demands. I wish that I could, but I can't. Anymore then those who say that they know that there is no god can prove that scientifically.

Sorry.. I have no scientific prove. Only my own testimony.
John M

climber
Apr 2, 2016 - 11:20am PT
Newsflash!!!...


They are ALL fake...


NO exceptions!!

by the way.. this would be a double standard..

but I believe that you were playing a game. ;-) trying to trip me up.


.....

Brandon..

In biblical terms, isn't the antichrist one who rises to power with the support of his/her people for two years, only to bring terrible things upon the world?

I believe that this is substantially correct, though the time frame is in debate and I believe unknown.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 2, 2016 - 11:21am PT
You have faith John, to me it doesn't matter if there is one or not.

John M

climber
Apr 2, 2016 - 11:23am PT
too funny Locker..




and substantially correct. though you joke about it.
John M

climber
Apr 2, 2016 - 11:37am PT
rethinking it.. Its not true that the devil can make you do anything. It is through free will that one gives themselves over to their lower ego. the devil/evil spirits can not force one to do something. Though they have quite persuasive methods including the use of energy and deception.

so saying.. "the devil made me do it" would not quite be correct. But I do understand the joke. I loved Flip Wilson.

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 2, 2016 - 12:01pm PT
A new slogan for DT..... The Donald Made Me Do It!
John M

climber
Apr 2, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
LOL.. okay Locker.. I knew that. Flip is just part of my history and had a character in his act who said it a lot. That character always made me laugh.

I wish that this was an actual video of the scene, rather then just a recording, but you can get the idea, and its still funny.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

oops.. found it.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
John M

climber
Apr 2, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
I did try to believe that way Locker. The thought of eternity actually scared me more as I had a lot of health problems and was in pain most of the time. For many years I hoped that this lifetime was all that there was. I was not able to fully accept that that was true, though I really wanted it to be. I can't tell you how many arguments about reincarnation I had with Karl, as for years I was suicidal. I really wanted to believe that this one lifetime was all that we had. Then I could have ended the pain my way.

But I was never able to fully accept the believe that this life time was all that we had. And so I had to look for answers to my pain. And believe me.. I gave science every opportunity. It would be difficult for me to count up the numb of doctors I have seen, or the different treatments I tried and the hundreds of thousands of dollars I have spent on medical treatment. Not that I discount today what doctors do. I don't. I fully believe that the knowledge of the scientific way was given to us through God inspiration. Its just that science did not have the answers that I needed and I now believe that this is because much of science has turned its back on the concept of God and so does not have the complete picture.

Thankfully I also had a few doctors who understood that they didn't have all of the answers and so encouraged me to follow whatever I needed to.. as long as it wasn't harmful. So yep.. following some nut job who suggests taking cyanide as a way catch some spaceship that god was sending is not wise counsel. And that I knew.

Just as there are plenty of whack jobs in the field of medicine, there are plenty of whack jobs in religion. One has to develop the discernment to wade through both.

and yep.. I understand that you believe that all belief in god is whack..
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 2, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
Once you believe that you can interpret the bible as the word of God

It's easy to believe that anything that tempts you to accept unholy ideas, can be blamed on Satan, he is testing you.
Satan is always lurking over your shoulder waiting for you succumb to temptation.

Locker is surely seen as Satan's mule, loaded with temptation galore
who wouldn't want some of his sweet resoled boots, you know it's going to add full letter grade this spring


What is normal, is that religiously oppressed folks often give in to their "Satan",
and when they do succumb, they go big time into perversion or show other pathological symptoms.

Being un-oppressed by religion usually creates more well adjusted non-judgmental adults that do not delve into criminal behavior.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 2, 2016 - 12:53pm PT
It's much harder to be a whack job in medicine.

although as evidenced by the number of doctor and nurse serial killers...
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Apr 2, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
^^^^
Not hardly. Many, many whackos in med. People desperate for relief keep them employed. (As it goes in religion too)
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 2, 2016 - 09:09pm PT
So let me get this straight Klimmer: Donald Trump, an obnoxious and bombastic misogynistic son of a bitch, is the designated instrument of a God who will save the United States of America from eternal damnation by somehow fulfilling some sort of ancient and indecipherable text(s), which we can't actually read but are on youtube explaining exactly why the aliens (or the nephilim or whatever) are somehow directed to do some sort of stuff or something that will lead to exactly......what? You, sir, are a nut. You are going to vote for Trump as the sign from god to save us all? Holy sh#t, we're f*#ked.

Edited because my rant was uncalled for. Sorry Klimmer.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 2, 2016 - 09:43pm PT
It's simple Winemaker: you just have to accept that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Do that, and it will all make sense. Even Donald Trump
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Apr 2, 2016 - 10:20pm PT
Anyone care to summarize the last 5000 posts? Where are we?


Here it is for the win
It's simple Winemaker: you just have to accept that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
-Ghost
F

climber
away from the ground
Apr 2, 2016 - 10:39pm PT
Uhhhhh...... Klimmer, do you want to place a wee wager on that one? I've got 1000$ that says otherwise.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Apr 2, 2016 - 10:48pm PT

Apr 2, 2016 - 11:37am PT
rethinking it.. Its not true that the devil can make you do anything. It is through free will that one gives themselves over to their lower ego. the devil/evil spirits can not force one to do something. Though they have quite persuasive methods including the use of energy and deception.

so saying.. "the devil made me do it" would not quite be correct. But I do understand the joke. I loved Flip Wilson.

So people "willingly" choose to do evil? That'd be whack, what with hell and all. Why wouldn't they just choose to do good like all the other "good" people do?
Easy to be good when you are so inclined.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Apr 3, 2016 - 05:10am PT
Wow.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Apr 3, 2016 - 05:28am PT
I'm liking Trumps position on NATO. He's right. Huge waste of resources.

For one thing, we just built a new NATO HQ in Brussels. A city so dangerous, the airport is locked down.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Apr 3, 2016 - 06:17am PT
Like I said G-d can make a donkey talk and use a talking donkey for his purposes

Trump? This is all starting to make sense now.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 3, 2016 - 07:09am PT
Randisi, it won't matter. Klimmer 'believes' stuff and actual reality can't change those beliefs. It's just like those 'prophets' who predict the end of the world; nothing happens, they find the tiny error in their calculation and make another prediction, their faith still whole.

I'd still take Trump over Cruz if push came to shove.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Apr 3, 2016 - 08:13am PT
I actually dig all that kooky prophecizing. It's hypnotic. I can see how one might get addicted to belief. Creepy. Scary. But definitely a pleasant opiate.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 3, 2016 - 08:30am PT
WRONG !

This thread is about examining a candidate running for President of the United States. That's no small matter and has very little to do with fluffing the God Squad.

Yes, and no.

Klimmer bringing pseudo-Christian prophecy into this thread, and a few others mocking him, may not be what you had in mind in your original post, but it is very much on topic.

Donald Trump is rolling strongly toward being the Republican candidate for President of the United States in the upcoming election. He has done this by gaining the support of a significant number of the country's citizens.

But how is this possible? Most of us here view him as completely unqualified for the job, and a danger to the country and the world if he wins it. So why do so many people support him? One reason is that they are not sane, and examining that insanity is, and should be, part of this discussion.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 3, 2016 - 08:42am PT
Very few here support Trump

Even Republicans can't figure it out.

One surprise was seeing how someone like John E. can figure a way out of the dilemma, blame it on Democrat voters!!, they are boosting his numbers!!

Never let facts tarnish your partisan views.

The truth is, there are Zero democrats that support Trump.
You're going to have to blame Republicans, independents, loony christians and libertarians, that are his base,
he has only right wing supporters.

he has 30% out of ~45% of the population
That is only 14% of the total population

I don't see anyway he can win
I predict he will not be the GOP nominee


VVV
yes, the tea-baggers are his base
they were completely sold out
Another Koch Bros fake grass roots org that took on a life of it's own after they figured out they were being used
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 3, 2016 - 09:05am PT
You have to see this youtube if you want some perspective into Klimmer's lunacy

Defending Donald Trump, Alex Jones Warns Of "An Alien Force Not Of This World Attacking Humanity"
http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/03/17/defending-donald-trump-alex-jones-warns-of-an-a/209345

It's a global attack!!! satan's alien force that are not of this world are Here !!!!

"we all have weaponized TVs Pointing at us"
"Trump may be a syop, but it doesn't matter"

It is so insane, it's hard to listen to, but this guy has millions of followers/smoking ducks

for more Alex Jones lunacy, check out this link
http://mediamatters.org/search/index?qstring=alex+jones&x=10&y=5

Once you go down the rabbit hole of global conspiracies, anything can be accepted no matter how crazy.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 3, 2016 - 10:16am PT
trailridge127, you are right; my post was uncalled for. I'm going to edit it.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 3, 2016 - 10:52am PT
I actually dig all that kooky prophecizing. It's hypnotic.

what's the difference one side of the forum are drinking kool aid while klimmer is drinking from the holy water..


pat Robertson did endorse TRUMP which means the 700clubers will follow.. more voters for the Center right Trump crowd.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Apr 3, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
The truth is, there are Zero democrats that support Trump.

Trump has generally been doing better in states that have open primaries. I could see a few, anti-establishment democrats jumping over to vote for Trump. I could also see democrats (in open primary states) voting for Trump. Its not like Hillary is in danger of losing the democrat nomination. So voting in the Republican primary makes a lot of sense. I've thought about it.

If you are a democratic voter would you rather have a 60% of a Kasich (/Jeb/Rubio) winning the presidency, or a 30% chance of Cruz winning, or a 5% chance of Trump winning it all. Plus, a vote for Trump is a vote to rip the Republican party to pieces. (And, by the way, I think open primaries, while trying to address a real problem, are a bad solution.)
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Apr 3, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
^^^^. Oh my.



Susan
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 3, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Let's keep the states and churchs separated...Politics is chaotic enough without trying to incorporate voodoo and other crankloon conspiracys into the picture...Please...!
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Apr 3, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
you know Klimmer, i usually try my best to keep an open mind...

but for you to personally define what "a true believer" is, and then go on to define said true believer as someone who wouldn't support a gathering of or wear a leather jacket in the company of lgbt folks is so over the top, i can't help but respond with honesty:

i'm glad you and those of your generation that believe similarly are dying out.



your world view is as antiquated and as delusional as the structurally racist and sexist ones that preceded it.

for your sake i hope there's a heaven, because i hate to think of the hell you create for yourself and those around you on this earth.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Apr 3, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
I'm guessing that when Sec Clinton wins, Klimmer & his buddies will see it as evidence Satan and the Illuminati are in control of our beloved Xtian nation. Funny how his GOD doesn't have enough power to defeat his enemies despite being omnipotent.

Ah well, they don't make deities like they used to...
Norton

Social climber
Apr 3, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
ok Klimmer

do tell, are humans born homosexual or do they choose to be that way?

do tell, can homosexuals go to heaven, under the terms and conditions as straights?

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 3, 2016 - 07:08pm PT
Klimmer, just substitute "nigger" for "homo" in your anti gay spew and then go look in the mirror.

Yeah, that's what you'll see staring back at you -- an out-of-touch-with-reality loser who desperately needs a scapegoat.

Take your hate somewhere else.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 3, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
Exodus 21:20-21 – "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."

GOD DEMANDING MURDER


Exodus 35:2 – " For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death."


Deuteronomy 21:18-21 – "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid."


Leviticus 20:13 – "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."


Deuteronomy 25:11-12 – "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Apr 3, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
Interesting nothin' about women laying with women....

kNowhatImsayin?

God IS a man!

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 3, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death

Climbing is not considered rest, so if we catch you climbing on the Sabbath, it means time to be put to death!

I'm also pretty sure that atheists are allowed to climb on the Sabbath

You have to pick your religion wisely if you want to climb on weekends
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Apr 3, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
Donald. Paging Donald.


Susan
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 4, 2016 - 08:07am PT

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 4, 2016 - 08:37am PT
Religion, the most dangerous force on Earth.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 4, 2016 - 08:40am PT
Not to The Donald. Republican Party flacks in back rooms are more dangerous,
although Wisconsin voters might be tomorrow.

BTW, Survival, I'm going to trundle out the GGNN later. Stay tuned, yer gonna like it.
(can't do it on this stoopid iPad, it doesn't have the torque)
dirtbag

climber
Apr 4, 2016 - 08:46am PT
I think I'm about to be proven wrong again.

First, and for a long time, I thought Liddle Marco would be the nominee. He looked good on paper, and actually looked and sounded good too.

Then, about a month ago, my money was on trump.

Now, I think it will be someone else. Trump is looking increasingly unlikely to win a majority of delegates in the primaries. And given his horrible week of flip flops and displays of blatant ignorance of many issues, I'm doubting he will win a majority of delegates on the second ballot at the convention, even if he enters the convention with a strong plurality. Most delegates are savvy political people who realize there is no way Trump can win. He is simply too toxic, and recent polling shows just how strongly disliked he his outside of his fanatical base

The problem is that nominees who emerge from contested conventions have a poor track record of winning, and I doubt Trump would stand by quietly if he wins a plurality but still loses the nomination. Still, Hillary is a weak candidate, so rolling the dice and picking someone different than Trump may be too enticing for delegates to pass up. Paul Ryan, anyone?

So who the fook knows? Hang on tight kids, it's going to be a wild one.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 4, 2016 - 08:50am PT
Comparing Hillary's lies and criminal behavior to what Trump has lied about and what he's got hiding is some kind of joke right?

every word out of Trump's mouth is misleading or a flat out lie.
He lies about his businesses, he lies about what he's going do, his past, his poll numbers, his support from minorities

But he has the lame stream media going with it like it's a party
and the same lame stream media making a big deal out of the all the stupid BS about Hillary lying about this or that, things that she has responded to..

e-mails, Benghazi, whitewater, bill

all completely non-issues

Yet she is a criminal in some people's eyes

Trump has short changed and bankrupted so many people that most smart people will never do business with him again, he maybe involved with the organized crime, he's a pathological lying narcissist, he doesn't care about anyone besides himself, he's a fascist, a racist, and so many other bad things


You have to be a sheeple droid that can be so easily brainwashed into complete denial of facts and evidence to believe that Hillary is worse than Trump in any possible way.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 4, 2016 - 10:10am PT
Yep, I blew that one!

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 4, 2016 - 10:58am PT
. He's not man enough for the job of President. It was patently obvious when he cracked that 'joke' with his Jr. High snicker and glance to the audience to gauge the reaction.

I would have hope Rubio would get nominated for VP but yeah he kinda effed up..


All hail The Donald!

Un-fuking-belivable.

you and Sierra ledge can go hold each others hands!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 4, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
Then why are you so religious thru your mass brainwashed blanket projection onto the world ....


I don't know, but your nine headed elephant blanket projection brainwash voodoo butter wish biscuit sure isn't working for me.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 4, 2016 - 03:00pm PT

Sorry Klimmer
According to Google, Trump has broken plenty of laws
he is involved in organized crime
He has many lawsuits against him
he employs illegal aliens
he shortchanges contractors
he goes around laws
he has his money in offshore banks

and he is such a little baby, that if you say anything he doesn't like, he sues your ass

are we going to put Colin Powell in jail too,
along with the rest of the Bush Admin for having classified e-mails on the RNC server that Rove crashed when the court asked to see the e-mails?

Admit it, you hate Hillary
why? because you believe any crap you hear


Torture, leaving NATO, deporting immigrants, putting up a fence, tax cuts for the rich, more National debt, more pollution, more deregulation, more enemies, more hate, more poor people, religious tests, keeping out the Muslims, etc..
Klimmer, what part of the above do you Love so much about Trump, is it the Torture, does that make you hot?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 4, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
Klimmer...your link is an opinion column...nothing more. Kinda like your opinion on god...hot air.



Actually Hillary is the most honest along with Bernie among the current candidates with your boy (Trump) being the least honest.

http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/fact-checkers-confirm-hillary-clinton-is-more-honest-than-any-of-her-2016-opponents/24196/
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 4, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
Trump spokeswoman a couple days ago was blathering about the USA paying 74% of NATO'S budget.

Fact checkers came on within 5 minutes to state that it was actually 22%.

She was close....NOT!!

Thank God for fact checkers.

Not that any Trump humpers give a sh#t.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Apr 4, 2016 - 04:09pm PT
Thanks for that link Bob!
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Apr 4, 2016 - 04:13pm PT
a quick clarification on your link Bob D'A, because that article is mostly filled with demonstrable bull shIt.

half way through they say this: "Again, lest you get jaded, it doesn’t mean that either candidate is lying 14% or 15% of the time they open their mouths. This is merely a percentage of the most highly contested claims they’ve each made during this election."

but yet they go onto compare the candidates based on percentages when it should be clear that percentages are irrelevant as they are completely dependent on the number of contentious things that have been said and then fact checked. by the article's logic if candidate x said two contentious things and both were shown to be false they'd have a 0% honesty rating, and trump would be more honest than them even though trump has been caught lying 95 times.

so let's ignore the percentages and just look at the number of contentious statements by each candidate that were rated mostly false, false or pants on fire by PolitiFact:

trump: 95
cruz: 73
rubio: 58
clinton: 51
bush: 24
sanders: 24
kasich: 20

oh surprise, the claimed to be most honest clinton is right up there in the middle of the pack.

right where anybody who has followed her bull shIt lies about the sanders' campaign would expect to find her...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 4, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015-12-21/fact-checking-website-donald-trump-lies-76-percent-of-the-time
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 4, 2016 - 04:23pm PT
well that cinched it, a Krauthammer blog
klimmer is right
trump has all the presidential qualifications he needs, and he will bring on what ever G-d has in store for us,

We will all be anticipating the Trump greatness and his predicted Big Win!,
please remind us the day before it happens so we can say that you were right about everything!


Insanity level - turned up to 11
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Apr 4, 2016 - 04:28pm PT
you are doubling down with the same mistaken logic Bob D'A...

the latest article you posted says this:

In other words, for every four statements Donald Trump makes, only one of them is true, according to the site.

this is a factually incorrect statement. in order to be correct it would say:

In other words, for every four contentious statements that Donald Trump makes and PolitiFact chooses to fact check, only one of them is true, according to the site.

get the difference?

because no, as much as i get that trump lies more than any other candidate, to say that 76% of the statements that come out of his mouth are lies, is itself a flat out lie.

just like saying clinton is the most honest candidate is a flat out lie.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 4, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
are you saying Trump's pants are on fire?
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Apr 4, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
^^^^^

hahaha...

only person around these parts who doesn't think trump's pants are on fire also believes in an alien craft on the far side of the moon...

christians for trump... hmmm... so... one of the most decadent, arrogant, superficiality loving, money hungry, regularly screwing of others in business deals, people in recent history is finding support with at least some "christians"...

sheeeit. if you wrote this election cycle's plot lines in a book, nobody would believe you.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 4, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
Ironically Bernie seems to have the most Christian message of all the candidates. I guess that's not too surprising because Jesus was a socialist...correct?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 4, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
No one would ever elect a poor Jewish carpenter that wanted to help the poor and bring on social justice.

Crucify him, this socialist leader will destroy the Elite's control of the masses!

Thankfully the Corporate media will stop his message from being heard.
The Roman Empire depends on your willingness to crucify.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 4, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
Nah...http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/11/how-honest-your-favorite-candidate
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Apr 4, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
^^^^

and now mother jones is doing it too... hahaha.

just because a whole bunch of sources makes the same mistake doesn't mean there is any truth to it...

the logic is once again fatally wrong.

because here's the rub: someone has to choose what is a contentious statement and what is not, in order to determine whether or not a statement is worth fact checking...

so at the end of the day the percentage is irrelevant, because there is no rigour in the determination of which statements are selected and which are not.

this leaves, the only thing worth considering, in those politifact synopses, being the number of times somebody has been caught lying.

clinton is in the thick of it on that front, with trump having, as one would expect, a commanding lead...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 4, 2016 - 05:53pm PT
Nah wrote: this leaves, the only thing worth considering, in those politifact synopses, being the number of times somebody has been caught lying.



And republicans lead the field hands down. They all lie or stretch what is true.


"and now mother jones is doing it too... hahaha."


Haha the information was gathered from another source.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Apr 4, 2016 - 06:08pm PT
Bob D'A:

1. as i showed before both bush and kasich have been caught lying fewer times than clinton, while rubio, cruz and trump have been caught lying by politifact more times... so saying that republicans as a group have been caught lying more than the democrats is factually incorrect [if one is using politifact as a source, as every one of your articles has been].

2. yes, mother jones did source from somewhere else [politifact] but they made the same logically fallacious mistake that every other source you've posted made and which you are too thick headed to really consider... :) ie. anybody who understands basic logic will understand the point i'm trying to make, and those who don't are going to be bowled over by multiple sources making the same mistake...



i'm sure we could keep doing this all night, but i've gotta run, so i'll let you have the last word if you want... ciao bella!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 4, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
Tom Colburn has also been put out there by some
He seems like he may get some good traction with a positive media blitz

Lying Ryan has said he is not interested
Does he want to suffer the loss??
he may really not want to go there
Norton

Social climber
Apr 4, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
nahoo

how does lying sort out looking at the front runners

Trump and Cruz vs Sanders and Clinton

any differences in lying?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 4, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
I'm a full time progressive radio junky,
so I hear a lot of info before it hits the mainstream

Lying Ryan said it once again today

Paul Ryan insists he won't be GOP nominee
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/03/politics/paul-ryan-arrives-in-israel/index.html

he went through it in 2012, he does not want to do it again
but with this GOP, and he is a pathological liar, so anything could happen!
the dial is at 11


My opinion at this juncture is:
It will be either Cruz, Kasich or Colburn

edit
can't find much on Colburn yet, so I may wrong on him
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 4, 2016 - 08:29pm PT
I'm sure it's been posted, but here is John Oliver talking about Trump and truth. Listen carefully Klimmer.....,,

[Click to View YouTube Video]

And the best part, Klimmer, is that it's on youtube..............so it must be true.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 4, 2016 - 09:06pm PT
only person around these parts who doesn't think trump's pants are on fire also believes in an alien craft on the far side of the moon...
christians for trump... hmmm... so... one of the most decadent, arrogant, superficiality loving, money hungry, regularly screwing of others in business deals, people in recent history is finding support with at least some "christians"...

I don't think most of you understand why Klimmer is hoping that Donald Trump is the next President.

Klimmer understands as well as you -- maybe better than any of you -- that Trump is likely to bring the world to ruin. The difference is that while the rest of us cringe at that thought, Klimmer rejoices. Armageddon, The End, the Antichrist, whatever you call it... That's what he's praying for.
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Apr 4, 2016 - 10:37pm PT
Klimmer understands as well as you -- maybe better than any of you -- that Trump is likely to bring the world to ruin. The difference is that while the rest of us cringe at that thought, Klimmer rejoices. Armageddon, The End, the Antichrist, whatever you call it... That's what he's praying for.

A certain, Fatalist "Rome Must Burn" part of me is kinda jiggy with that - if the devout, spewy Klimmer would just STFU.

;)
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 4, 2016 - 11:24pm PT
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thine name, PLEASE let Donald Trump's massive tax evasion be found within the Panama Papers.


Howoam, shally um, shally wu, shally wah, horeshum kamen shally um, shally wu, shally wah . . . . . . .


pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 5, 2016 - 08:21am PT
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/melania-stumps-donald-trump-he-will-punch-back-10-times-n550641


mister E wrote:
if the devout, spewy Klimmer would just STFU.

hey dude maybe you should watch out I'm going to file a complaint with the superdupertopo complaint dept. stop! stalking the Christians.. sorry if klimmer doesn't fit your kool aid drinking drum circle..
of BOTTOM FEEDING leachers
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 5, 2016 - 09:23am PT
paul ryan will take it
the koch money is lining up behind him

As was joked on the local(here) NR station this morning.... "Yeah, look how much that helped Jeb Bush!"

It's becoming pretty clear there will be the contested convention, and boy oh boy is DT going to be pissed off. I say, let whomever does win the election appease DT by offering him the opportunity to mock lead if the GOP wins in November.

That way we get to guffaw and laugh the whole way through, without any of the consequences that a leader placing bad pro and falling on it has to risk.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 5, 2016 - 09:37am PT
Yo Klimmer and pyro: The Hair talking about terrorists: "With the terrorists, you have to take out their families," Trump said during a "Fox & Friends" interview.

He argued that such tactics were necessary because the terrorists claim to not care about their own lives.

"When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families," he repeated. "They care about their lives, don't kid yourselves. But they say they don't care about their lives. You have to take out their families."


You do understand that's a war crime, right? But it's ok with you because as long as it's an American war crime, or a Trump war crime, or a red, white and blue war crime, a Jesus sanctioned war crime it's ok?
dirtbag

climber
Apr 5, 2016 - 09:43am PT
But he's going to make America great again. Just ask him!

And Hillary = Benghazary.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 5, 2016 - 11:00am PT
Yo Klimmer and pyro: The Hair talking about terrorists: "With the terrorists, you have to take out their families," Trump said during a "Fox & Friends" interview.

man that is more comforting to hear than some Muslim claiming war if they cross some red line and when they did he did NOTHING!

Donald means FORCE!
Donald means BUSINESS!
dirtbag

climber
Apr 5, 2016 - 11:04am PT
Yeah, sure.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 5, 2016 - 11:05am PT
Give Trump 3 minutes and a question and he'll finish at minute 3 having been on all sides of the issue and then blaming you for asking the question.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 5, 2016 - 11:14am PT
Trump is a farce
Trump never intended and has no intention of becoming president
Trump will expose his supporters for the fools that they are
Trump is destroying the Republican Party....Yipeee!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 5, 2016 - 11:35am PT
No, Paul Ryan can’t ride in to save the GOP

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/04/05/no-paul-ryan-cant-ride-in-to-save-the-gop/

By Paul Waldman April 5 at 12:08 PM

In brief, here’s how the pro-Ryan argument goes. Option One is Donald Trump, whose nomination would be an extinction-level event for the GOP. His unfavorable ratings are in the 60s, he’s hated by women and Hispanics and just about everybody else, and he would not only lose the election but deliver the Senate and possibly even the House to the Democrats as well. Option Two, Ted Cruz, isn’t much better. He’d produce an update of the disastrous 1964 Barry Goldwater campaign, with a candidacy based on uncompromising hard-right ideology the broad public doesn’t share, helpfully embodied in a uniquely repellent individual. As Option Three, Ryan mitigates these problems by offering a more personally appealing face for the party, a friendly, knowledgeable person who can take the party’s message to the country in a way Trump or Cruz can’t.


It wouldn’t just be the manner in which Ryan got the nomination that would infuriate anti-establishment Republicans. It would also be the fact that as much as anyone, he represents the elite GOP consensus on economic issues. Unlike Trump, he’s an advocate of free trade, his zeal for upper-income tax cuts is as strong as anyone’s, and there’s no more prominent proponent in Washington of privatizing Medicare. He may be no more sensible than Trump on economics (Matt O’Brien explains here why the two men’s views on government spending are equally fantastical), but he’s not going to be making any populist pitches. So Ryan couldn’t sustain that anger that’s making at least some Republicans excited about this year’s election.

There’s also a misperception within Washington about Ryan’s appeal to the public. For years, he has gotten glowing press coverage, as he has convinced members of the media that he’s a serious policy wonk (despite the abundance of magic asterisks in all his budget plans), and that he’s simultaneously an up-and-comer climbing rapidly up the ladder and one who isn’t ambitious to any unseemly degree. But there’s little reason to think that the electorate does or would share that high opinion of him. Ryan didn’t exactly set the world on fire as a vice presidential candidate four years ago, and Democrats would have no trouble painting him as a representative of the elite whose main goals are to cut taxes for the wealthy and dismantle Medicare.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 5, 2016 - 11:35am PT
Pyro finds the thought of war crimes "comforting". Nice. No wonder the hair has an audience. War is bad enough even with the stuff that's considered legal.

Throw in some war crimes and some guys still find it comforting....
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 5, 2016 - 11:54am PT
Republicans love to use fear, Trump is a complete idiot and Obama quietly does what a president is supposed to do....http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/be-not-afraid/384965/
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 5, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
Pyro finds the thought of war crimes "comforting".

HA! nice try!
if anybody thinks WAR is kool is insane..
these Islame O's they only understand one thing WAR..
dirtbag

climber
Apr 5, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
If trump wasn't so throughtly hated (67% unfavorable rating) and downright scary, then maybe.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 5, 2016 - 04:15pm PT

Hey Klimmer,

you seem very very sure of yourself saying The Donald WILL be the President.

Want to bet on it?

I got $5000 that says you are uninformed, misinformed, and just plain wrong.

Wishful thinking won't get you anything Klimmer, so put your money where your mouth is, how about it, take my bet that the biggest liar of all Trump will not be President?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 5, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
I already tried that Norton, but, although Klimmer is sure Trump is chosen by god, he (Klimmer that is) still wants to hedge his bets. From the beginning of Trump's run I was convinced he was really playing an April fool's joke, as I don't think he really wanted such a hard job; I still think that's true.

The self destruction we witnessed this week lends credence to that theory; maybe he feels it's time to get out while the getting's good. But on the other hand the guy certainly is narcissistic............. Ryan has already been trashed here on the taco for his 14er B.S., so he has not chance. That leaves Cruz, who (whom?) everyone who knows him hates. Or Romney.

Edited to add: Klimmer, after eight years the Repubs never got used to having a black man in the White House.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 5, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
Mighty Hiker, you are correct. Unfortunately the Repub assault on voting rights with the false 'illegal' voter has lasting and dramatic effect. The disenfranchisement of approximately 300,000 voters in Minnesota with the requirement for government ID is an example. There have been ZERO cases of voter fraud, but to solve the 'problem' 300,000 voters are potentially losing their right to vote. There needs to be a national standard for voting, as well as a national standard for voting machines. The chances of fraud with electronic machines has been demonstrated time and time again, but yet we allow some computer code to determine who will lead this country. Enough.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 5, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy:

Since March, the [Trump] campaign has been laying off field staff en masse around the country and has dismantled much of what existed of its organizations in general-election battlegrounds, including Florida and Ohio.

Last month, the campaign laid off the leader of its data team, Matt Braynard, who did not train a successor. It elevated his No. 2, a data engineer with little prior high-level political strategy experience, and also shifted some of his team’s duties to a 2015 college graduate whose last job was an internship with the consumer products company Colgate-Palmolive. Some of the campaign’s data remains inaccessible.

Trump campaign in disarray
Morale sinks as key battleground state staff laid off, including senior data operative.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 5, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
I have $10 on Trump will Not be the GOP nominee
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 5, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
This is how Bush won 2000



Florida’s flawed “voter-cleansing” program
Monday, Dec 4, 2000 08:19 AM PST

Secretary of State Katherine Harris hired a firm to vet the rolls for felons, but that may have wrongly kept thousands, particularly blacks, from casting ballots.

If Vice President Al Gore is wondering where his Florida votes went, rather than sift through a pile of chad, he might want to look at a “scrub list” of 173,000 names targeted to be knocked off the Florida voter registry by a division of the office of Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris. A close examination suggests thousands of voters may have lost their right to vote based on a flaw-ridden list that included purported “felons” provided by a private firm with tight Republican ties.

http://www.salon.com/2000/12/04/voter_file/
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 5, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
Yep. Amazing how the right to bear (bare?) arms is more important than the right to vote.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 5, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
So Klimmer, Cruz, who has god on his (god 'told' Cruz to run, according to him (Cruz)) side won Wisconsin, but you've told us that Trump is god's choice for the whatever of America. What does your god say about this disconnect? Is there any sort of conflict about this? What should I believe? And why? Can gods argue? I'm getting pretty confused about who's god is in charge and who that god supports. Is there more than one god? Please explain.

Edited to add: Yes, a couple of glasses of wine. But still......................
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 5, 2016 - 09:27pm PT
Gott mit uns
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 5, 2016 - 10:20pm PT
TRUMP versus CRUZ - - - The Battle of the Gods


Which god will be named The One True God, and bring their nutcase candidate to power???






Trump now says he is going to pay for his preposterous wall by confiscating "illegally earned" wages from Mexican rapists.


http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/Report-Trump-says-he-ll-fund-wall-by-cutting-7228631.php

Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Apr 5, 2016 - 11:18pm PT
I have $10 on Trump will Not be the GOP nominee

I think that's a good bet.

Curt
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 6, 2016 - 12:56am PT
OMG Cosmic, that is fricken BLASPHEMOUS!!!!


I just hope you saved the missing letters, and used JB Weld to stick them back on as soon as the photo was taken.


Turning TOYOTA into YOTA is one thing, but that photo you posted is just too much, too horrific, a terrible dishonor to a very fine machine.






THIS JUST IN:

Trump's failed SOHO condo project was controlled and financed by Russian criminals

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 6, 2016 - 09:08am PT
Trump now says he is going to pay for his preposterous wall by confiscating (edited: a portion of Mexican remittances).

I am sure that idea will win favor with the large number of Mexican immigrants who work at his resorts. What a clueless buffoon that man is.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 6, 2016 - 09:53am PT
Trump said that he would confiscate remittances coming from "illegal wages".

It doesn't really matter what he said, or how he said it, though.

Trump saw a number, $25 billion, a number that exceeded the $12 billion he claims the world's greatest wall will cost. Using the power of Trumpenomics, he deduced that he should seize half of all remittances to pay for the wall.

Earlier, he used a similarly demented "logic" to determine that the trade imbalance with Mexico was going to pay for the wall.


If he heard that the GNP of, say, Estonia, was $12 billion, he say that was how he was going to pay for the wall.






When the Panama Papers show that multiple Trump properties have been purchased through shady shell company deals by drug dealers and foreign tyrants, he's really going to start babbling incoherently.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 6, 2016 - 10:08am PT
Dingus,

I am now retired but for 19 years I owned money service business here in New Mexico

We were an American Express Moneygram agent, Western Union

and I can tell you that when the "illegal immigrants" got paid cash for a week's work they would come to my store and wire say $35 or whatever back to help their families out in Mexico or Paraguay or El Salvador, etc
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 6, 2016 - 10:08am PT
Dingus- Money laundering is taking illegally made money and making it look legitimate to avoid raising suspicion of said illegal activity. Remittances are funds sent from someone in one country back to their place of origin to support their families. Millions of legally employed Americans and immigrants in America send money to support their families overseas. They just aren't even close to being related.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 6, 2016 - 10:11am PT
How about the best of both worlds, Trumpillary

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 6, 2016 - 10:14am PT
That picture made me cough up a hairball.

My first ever.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 6, 2016 - 10:16am PT
Glad to help, those things tend to restrict the breathing
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 6, 2016 - 10:24am PT
LOL

Well, nicely done then. I feel much better now.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 6, 2016 - 10:43am PT
Dingus, money laundering is used to make illegal money look clean by moving it through a legit business.

The remittances usually (but not always) aren't done to hide money but to support families back home.

I get what you are saying, both involve illegally acquired money, but that is where the similarities end.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 6, 2016 - 10:52am PT
Nice try but no cigar. I called out illegal workers. Paid in cash under the table, no taxes, wired somewhere out of the country.

How is this not money laundering?


because it is not illegal and there is no "laundering" of money when a worker sends some of his pay back home to a different country

wire transfer businesses, like mine, are very very regulated and continually tested
again, nothing illegal about workers sending money
dirtbag

climber
Apr 6, 2016 - 11:03am PT
I see, so if I am helping some family members in some other country by wiring them illegally gained money and thus avoiding taxes too, that's cool because its supporting family?
e

I did it say it was "cool." I said the money was obtained ilegaly. You asked for an explanation so I provided it.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 6, 2016 - 11:08am PT
Wiring illegally made money isn't money laundering either.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 6, 2016 - 11:19am PT
I have laundered money before, I blame it on the weed.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 6, 2016 - 12:20pm PT
How on earth would we be able to differentiate between remittances from "illegal" wages and any other monies being sent? It's not like the Johns...er, I mean the companies, report that they are paying people cash under the table.

And really - is it actually ILLEGAL to receive money for work here in the US, when you are an undocumented alien? Isn't the one breaking the law there the employer of undocumented persons?

The answer: NO, it is not.
Like any employee, you have the right to be paid for the work you do, at minimum wage, at least, plus overtime pay when legally required. Like other workers, you also have the right to healthy and safe conditions on the job, free from abuse, exploitation, or sexual harassment.

These rights are all too often violated, however, because employers know the workers don't want to reveal their undocumented status.

If you're hurt on the job, you have the right to collect workers' compensation benefits in some states. You may even have the right to collect disability insurance if you paid into it from your paychecks. You have the right to organize or join a union to force better working conditions.

Undocumented immigrants are blocked from collecting unemployment insurance in most states, because a condition of unemployment insurance is usually that the employee must be willing and able to work. Undocumented workers are not technically able to work, so they don't qualify.
http://immigration.lawyers.com/general-immigration/legal-rights-of-illegal-immigrants.html

The whole idea is disgusting.

And no - an undocumented alien sending wages, which (s)he obtained through work, to their mother country is NOT money laundering.
The process of taking the proceeds of criminal activity and making them appear legal.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/money+laundering

Now...if DT is talking about drug monies being sent, that's another story. I don't believe even he has the hubris to believe he can pick the wallet of a drug cartel operator.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 6, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
DMT - I linked the page which explains that undocumented aliens are entitled to money earned from work.

As for the "DT" - that's Donald Trump, not a reference to you, DMT, in case that is what you were thinking.

If you disagree with something I have posted, I would hope you would say so!
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 6, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
Illegal workers paid with undeclared cash... is most definitely illegal.

Most illegals get a paycheck and pay payroll taxes.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 6, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
Most illegals get a paycheck and pay payroll taxes.

I'm seriously curious, because I couldn't find any substantiation for that assertion. Do you have support for it?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 6, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
On the subject of illegal aliens, money, etc. I have some experience as I work near Yakima in a business that employs many casual day laborers. I am friends with apple growers so hear stories first hand about employment issues. A good friend's wife has been doing the accounting for their orchard for years; when a worker submits a SSN for payroll she submits it to the IRS and they either accept it or say it's no good. If it's no good all she can do is ask for another number and try again.

What's interesting about this is that, even though the worker is not legal they are still paying Social Security, Medicare, and some tax withholding. They will never see any of that money, so really they are actually supporting the rest of us a bit. There is a program for anonymous filing with the IRS that many illegals use so they aren't violating tax laws; that's how the government finally got Al Capone, if you recall.

There really needs to be a route for illegals to become legal. The Mexicans I work with are honest, hard working people supporting families here and in Mexico. I wish some of the Anglos I've had work for me were as hard working and intelligent as my two (legal) cellar guys. One of my guys has two daughters in university; one is due to graduate with an accounting degree this year, and good for her.

I guess I'm just saying it's not all black and white.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 6, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
It's also interesting to find out that illegal immigration has actually leveled off in numbers in recent years, with the peak being in 2007....But don't let facts stop anyone from fearing their job is in jeopardy of being stolen out from under them by a Mexican!

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 6, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
I guess I'm just saying it's not all black and white.

And that's exactly what Donald Trump says, right? He says that the blacks and whites are legal, but it's not all black and white because there are also browns, who are not only illegal, but they're also criminals and rapists.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 6, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
Most illegals get a paycheck and pay payroll taxes.

How do you know That??????????????

I know of a whole factory right here in Chatsworth, that pays CASH every Friday to their Illegal workers, about 100 of them.

I worked at a factory, in Van Nuys, that paid 30 to 50 people in CASH every Friday.

If an Illegal worker is paying TAXES they are using a SS number stolen from someone else.

I have nothing bad to say about illegal workers, I have hired them in the past. Mostly hard working industrious types who are looking for a better way in life for them and their family. And if a job in Canada paid $250/hour.... I would be the first to go sneak in.

I do however have a big problem with our GOVERNMENT who sold us a bill of goods back in the late 80's about the AMNESTY....

We got duped, by our Government, and the same old sh#t continues to this day.

So if you wish for more of the same... keep voting the same way.



fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Apr 6, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
In college I worked for a landscaping company and at one point had a large crew of Ecuadorians working with me. All illegal. They had sequential SS#'s according to the owner of the company.

Hardest working people I've ever met and they made $10/hour... cash. When I say hard working I mean 12 hour days with a shovel in the heat. Men and women. And they never bitched or moaned.

I'm always amused when people get upset when someone "doesn't pay their taxes", as if it's a sin against G_d(Klimmer bump).

I pay my taxes because I'm scared of the men with rifles that will come and take it if I don't pay.

I applaud hardworking productive people, illegal or not, that avoid paying the federal murder machine.

Good on ya!

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 6, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
Most of the service/labor industry would shut without illegals...total bullshit going after them while corporations walk away stashing billions offshore and paying minimum taxes.


Smoke and mirrors.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 6, 2016 - 01:33pm PT
Ghost, I stand corrected.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 6, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
Most illegals get a paycheck and pay payroll taxes.

I'm seriously curious, because I couldn't find any substantiation for that assertion. Do you have support for it?

How do you know That??????????????

Well, for one thing, the mojados I worked with at an Orange County bakery.

The illegal drywallers that replaced my surfer buddies get paychecks.

Those illegals recruited by Tyson Chicken and Iowa Beef Processors, think they get paid in cash?

Google is your friend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/20/us/tyson-foods-indicted-in-plan-to-smuggle-illegal-workers.html

http://www.pri.org/stories/2011-12-29/storm-lake-iowa-meatpacking-town-fueled-immigrant-labor

http://www.itep.org/pdf/undocumentedtaxes2015.pdf
The best evidence
suggests that at least 50 percent of undocumented immigrant households currently file income tax returns
using Individual Tax Identification Numbers (ITINs) and many who do not file income tax returns still
have taxes deducted from their paycheck.

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/illegal-immigrants-pay-social-security-tax-wont-benefit/
While many Americans believe illegal immigrants don’t pay taxes, billions of dollars deducted from paychecks issued to undocumented workers flow to the Social Security Administration (SSA) every year. Those workers almost certainly will never see that money again.

Social Security officials keep a record of wages that do not match up with real names and numbers in their system. The record is called the earnings suspense file.

In 2009, the last year for which figures are available, employers reported wages of $72.8 billion for 7.7 million workers who could not be matched to legal Social Security numbers.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 6, 2016 - 03:47pm PT
In 1994, Trump hoped his then 1 year old daughter would have big boobs when she grew up.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/04/06/video_donald_trump_on_his_one_year_old_daughter_s_brests.html


Sigh...and no, I am not making this up.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 6, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
the majority are believed to be illegal immigrants

It's lines like these that are troubling in trying to get to the real story about illegal aliens paying SS taxes. People believe all sorts of things on the basis of little, no, or misunderstood evidence.

What I was asking for was harder figures than a couple of left-leaning opinion pieces, especially when the Seattle Times one even admits (although with the above-quoted line tries to sweep aside with no data) that "some of those were legal workers who simply made paperwork mistakes."

"Some"? "Most"? "Many"? Whatever!

I'm not denying that "some" illegals pay SS taxes (and they pay sales tax, etc.) But I'm in no way convinced that "most" pay "payroll taxes". And, even with Google being my friend, I remain unconvinced.

It's all an aside, though, because Trump is a scary, scary man. Cruz is (could this be POSSIBLE???) even worse!

Comeonnnnn Bernie!
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 6, 2016 - 04:29pm PT
There are no 'illegal aliens', only illegal employers attempting to shuffle taxes, benefits and healthcare costs off of themselves and onto taxpayers. And guess what? If we had total transparency I would bet bottom dollar that the majority of those employers, SMBs and corporate execs / board members are republicans.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 6, 2016 - 04:56pm PT
There are no 'illegal aliens', only illegal employers attempting to shuffle taxes, benefits and healthcare costs off of themselves and onto taxpayers. And guess what? If we had total transparency I would bet bottom dollar that the majority of those employers, SMBs and corporate execs / board members are republicans.


Spot on, I reckon.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 6, 2016 - 05:11pm PT
There are no 'illegal aliens', only illegal employers

It's not either/or; both are breaking the law. Both are doing so intentionally.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 6, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
From today's (04/06/16) Wall Street Journal:

"The U.S. consumer safety authority is recalling about 20,000 Ivanka Trump-branded women’s scarves over concerns they could catch fire and injure their wearers, the agency said Wednesday.

The 100% rayon scarves, manufactured in China and embroidered with the name of the daughter of Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump “do not meet the federal flammability standards for clothing textiles, posing a burn risk,” the Consumer Product Safety Commission said in a notice.

No injuries or incidents associated with the product have been reported, according to the agency.

Hope Hicks, a spokeswoman for both the Trump Organization and the Trump campaign, referred questions to Ms. Trump’s brand spokesperson, who did not immediately respond to a request for comment. The importer, listed as Global Brands Group, did not respond to a request for comment.

The scarves were sold by Lord & Taylor, Marshalls, TJ Maxx, as well as online retailers such as Amazon.com Inc. for $12-$68, according to the CPSC notice. Consumers are offered a full refund.

On the campaign trail, Mr. Trump has roundly criticized American companies that manufacture products abroad, vowed to crack down on currency manipulation and outsourcing, and promised to renegotiate trade agreements.

Yet many of the products bearing the brand names of Mr. Trump and his family are manufactured abroad.

“I have been doing it more and more,” Mr. Trump said during a debate last month of his efforts to manufacture his clothing line in the U.S."

I guess it's more of that old 'do as I say, not as I do' bullsh#t.

The (not) new Republican mantra: privatize the gains, socialize the losses. Some banksters really should have been sent to jail for 2008. What a world. I just sent more money to Bernie.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 6, 2016 - 05:29pm PT
Some banksters really should have been sent to jail for 2008.

Amen. Some should have faced a firing squad. ;-)
Norton

Social climber
Apr 6, 2016 - 05:43pm PT

Anyone real, real sure of themselves? As certain and arrogant as some of you post here?

Then join me, put your own money where your mouth is.

I have placed a bet in the online betting markets that Hillary beats Trump or Cruz

and

beats either one by over 8 million popular and over 110 Electoral Votes in November

I also have another bet that the Democrats will take the US Senate away from the Repubs

Any of you folks like making money when right and can handle losing when wrong?

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 6, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
Anyone real, real sure of themselves?

Nowhere CLOSE to the arrogance on the subject that you exhibit. I wonder if you'll be as vociferously and relentlessly shamefaced if your preferred scenario doesn't play out.

Will you ceaselessly grovel for months and months in sackcloth and ashes, berating yourself relentlessly, if, say, the Repubs hold Congress and take the WH?

And I don't mean "grovel" as in, "Oh, I cannot believe that this nation is so full of 'stupid' people."

I mean "grovel" as in, "Wow, my stridency was ENTIRELY misplaced, and I was a very public idiot to have been so certain I understood the mind of the American people and the election process."

That's the sort of bet I'd like to see from you. Money is easy. Continual groveling for, say, six months on EVERY politard thread would be a fitting punishment for the certainty you perpetually express.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 6, 2016 - 06:56pm PT
So, madbolter1, will you grovel if the reverse is true? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Just say'in.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 6, 2016 - 07:08pm PT
So, madbolter1, will you grovel if the reverse is true? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Just say'in.

No, because I have not been loading the threads with relentless certainty regarding the outcome. I haven't been challenging people to bet, etc.

I don't claim to "know" how this is going to go, even to the level of detail of stating the "spread" on the popular vote.

Nope, Norton has perpetually (and for months) set a new high bar for certainty. I can't "rise" to that level, so I have nothing to grovel about.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 6, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
After listening to a Repub pundit's analysis of the current state of the party, I have to concur that Paul Ryan will be our next prez. Trump will bail off in an independent bid after the riots, the rest of the party hates Cruz, and both sides have enough people hating on Bernie & Hillary to make it easy to step forward in a contested race. All he has to do is be level-headed and stay out of the fray.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
There are no 'illegal aliens', only illegal employers attempting to shuffle taxes, benefits and healthcare costs off of themselves and onto taxpayers. And guess what? If we had total transparency I would bet bottom dollar that the majority of those employers, SMBs and corporate execs / board members are republicans.

If only we had a system that didn't lay all those burdens on the shoulders of businesses, they wouldn't have to try so hard to skirt them.

If businesses weren't mandated to cover healthcare, benefits, and withdraw taxes payable to uncle sam, think about how many more people they could employ.

But, by all means, we should regulate it more and demand these employers do more! They should be pulling their weight!!!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
Madbolter...i'd place that bet with Norton ( Crankloon ) if i were you...It's a rarity when he's right...All hot air...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
Escopeta...who should the burden be cast upon...?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
Cosmic...what if the republicans nominate Hillary...will you vote for her...?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:29pm PT
If businesses weren't mandated to cover healthcare, benefits, and withdraw taxes payable to uncle sam, think about how many more people they could employ.

And while you're at it, why not denounce the minimum wage. Then think how many peasants businesses could hire.

Escopeta, have you thought of moving to China? You might find the business climate there more to your liking.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:32pm PT
Cosmic...Put me on the sh#t list...Now..!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:38pm PT
K-man, have you ever been to China? Good grief. You are like watching a sick and twisted version of the candle-makers petition.

The minimum wage is one of the dumbest, most useless, ill-conceived contrivances of economic-planning ever developed.

But I'm sure it will work THIS time......I mean, it HAS to right? Even though its NEVER worked before, I'm pulling for ya.



Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
@ madbolter1:

"Will you ceaselessly grovel for months and months in sackcloth and ashes, berating yourself relentlessly, if, say, the Repubs hold Congress and take the WH?"

F*#k no. You won't and I won't. Fairs fair but you refuse to hold up your end of the deal. If the Repubs win the White House and the keep Congress I'll feel pretty bad, but I will not abase myself for my beliefs, as you won't for mine. WTF? I have to grovel if the citizens of this country decide they don't like our guy or our party? That's not how it works. If that's how it was, you and all your friends would have been groveling to Obama after he was re-elected in 2012. You whould have been groveling to the will of the people.

I remember, in 2008, how it felt to see Obama elected president. It was the most fantastic thing I had seen in ages. It was electrifying. But your 'party' met even before Obama was sworn in 2008 and decided that all of you would oppose VERYTHING he wanted, even if it were for the betterment of the country and you had been in favor of it earlier. The ACA, for god's sake, was a Republican plan!!! Watching those election results, in 2008, I had hopes for this country. Obama failed to deliver those hopes, and I have not hesitated to blame him for how he, though handed a mandate, gave it away to the Repubs by trying to negotiate with and deal with an opposition party that hated his black ass and only wanted to run him out of town.

Frankly, opposition like we saw was treason; imagine how the Repubs would have reacted to the things that have been said and done to Obama were he Bush. Now, as the Democrats seem to be way too mild mannered about this sh#t, I can understand how you could take that position, but, really, this has been the antithesis of how this country operates. Maybe you and your buddies should look out for the betterment of the country and your fellow citizens instead of the f*#king obstructionist bullshit we have been seeing for years. How could you oppose getting this country back on a productive path after 2008 because of politics? You people are just f*#ked in your outlook. Damn, it really might be time for the trunnions and guillotines; I'm donating more money to Bernie in about twenty seconds, thank you very much.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
Escopeta...who should the burden be cast upon...?

The burden of healthcare and education? Um, how about that burden fall to the individual? Novel thought I know, but hey.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:49pm PT
Escopeta..I'm with you as long as the hospitals will accept chickens and produce for payment..
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
Most of the service/labor industry would shut without illegals...total bullshit going after them while corporations walk away stashing billions offshore and paying minimum taxes.




A magician uses smoke, mirrors and misdirection to conceal what does, so that people don't correlate his actions with the results that appear later.




Misdirecting attention to a relatively minor issue, like illegal immigrants, allows the real criminals in society to continue their demonic business in the shadows.

Instead of focusing on people coming to America to do menial work, we should be focusing on the vast and increasing power of the rapacious financial system which benefits the wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

We should be working to enact and enforce laws that prevent the richest people and most profitable corporations from extracting wealth from the lower and middle classes, and accumulating it at the very top.

We should be discovering and eliminating all the ways that huge amounts of money are moved off-shore and sequestered to avoid paying taxes, and to prevent its flow through the economy.

We should be urging Congress to pass sensible taxation laws, like those of the pre-Reagan era, that don't favor the wealthy so much.





A CEO takes 11 of the 12 cookies on a plate, eats one, and stuffs the other 10 into his pockets. The CEO then turns to the worker and says, "Hey, you better watch out for that Union guy. He's trying to take your cookie."
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:57pm PT
Doh...
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 6, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
So, Escopeta, if a person is making, say $15/hr ($30k/year) and they get cancer and the treatment costs maybe $650k they are just f*#ked and should just quietly die? Do you know how hard it is to live on $30k/year with two or three kids? Get real; people making these wages can't afford heath insurance, except with things like the ACA; they need to eat and have a place to live and sleep. These are real people with real lives and real families who suffer even as we immortals. Look at statistics for bankruptcy; most bankruptcies are because of health care costs. We're better than this, as are most of the first world nations.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 6, 2016 - 09:00pm PT
If businesses weren't mandated to cover healthcare, benefits, and withdraw taxes payable to uncle sam, think about how many more people they could employ

Exactly! Implement a single-payer government health care system and businesses will no longer have cover the biggest part of your worry.

Oh, wait... Only crankloon socialists like Sanders and Clinton favor that kind of thing. Right. Forget it. That's SOCIALIST MEDICINE and a sure road to ruin.

Maybe the best thing to do is just kill all the workers and replace them with robots and computer programs. Then business won't have to worry about any of that benefits sh#t.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 6, 2016 - 09:34pm PT
If businesses weren't mandated to cover healthcare, benefits

Umm... they're not. Unless their workers have a collective bargaining agreement saying they will provide such.

Where the hell do you get this stuff?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 6, 2016 - 09:35pm PT
Just to steer this back a bit towards Trump, and his hypocrisy:


Chinese-made Ivanka Trump Collection scarves are recalled by the Consumer Product Safety Commission as a fire hazard


Trump's own signature clothing line, which was sold at Macy's before his infamous "Mexican rapists" tirade, was also made overseas.


If anybody has the ability to have fancy-assed clothing made in the United States, it's Trump and his daughter. They have the financial resources to reestablish closed factories and lost jobs. The exorbitant prices they charge are more than enough to cover higher labor costs. Their high profile would ensure a wide customer base to allow good economies of scale.


The fact is, Trump is a greedy SOB, and his daughter has not fallen far from the tree.

Trump bemoans the plight of the endangered American worker, and then has his signature clothing line made overseas. His focus is, as always, on himself and his own bottom line.


And, lest you think Ivanka is an innocent babe, who has simply been carried along by the Trump malfeasance maelstrom, she has been named as a primary defendant in a lawsuit alleging fraud by a group of people who were duped by Trump's New York City SOHO project scam. Part of the lawsuit alleges fraudulently inflated statements regarding occupancy of the residential tower, with Ivanka's false statements (60% occupied, vs. 30% in reality) being among the most egregious.

Trump's children also named as defendants in NYC lawsuit alleging fraud by the Trump Organization


Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 6, 2016 - 09:58pm PT
A magician uses smoke, mirrors and misdirection to conceal what does, so that people don't correlate his actions with the results that appear later.



The primary beneficiaries of the healthcare industry, hugely profitable corporations stashing their profits in tax havens, have managed to use smoke, mirrors and misdirection to get people focused away from themselves.

The focus has erroneously been shifted to a problem that largely wouldn't exist if the corporations themselves hadn't created it in the first place.

The real problem is the rapidly increasing cost of healthcare, not society's inability to further enrich multinational corporations and their wealthy shareholders.



Instead of a national discussion on the healthcare crisis being this:


"How are we going to pay for healthcare for everyone in the nation?"


the discussion should be:


How are we going to reign in the medical device and pharmaceutical industries, the most powerful lobbying groups in Washington D.C., so that they can no longer rapaciously exploit people with unjustifiably high prices?


and this:


What sort of laws do we need to enact, which will make it illegal for medical companies to extract billions from the public, while at the same time allowing millions of people to go without proper health care?


and this:


What sort of laws are needed to prevent a company from buying the exclusive rights to an important drug, and then raising the price 5000% overnight?


and this:


How do we regulate the pharmaceutical industry so that American citizens don't have to cross the border into Canada or Mexico to buy their medicine, in order to save 80%, compared to the cost of the same medicine in the United States?




Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 7, 2016 - 06:38am PT
Winemaker, you're asking the wrong questions. The real question is "Why does it cost $650k if you have cancer". The real fact is that people in the US have no idea what even a broken leg costs, much less cancer treatment. And that's just the way the government (and the insurance companies btw) want it.

If you look for the answer to that, you will find the same solutions I have.

And yes, I think the fact that the government uses business as their debt collectors is silly. Every single person should write a check to Uncle Sam for their taxes. I don't care if its every week, every month or every year, they should have to sit down and hand over that money.

If we did, I promise you, there'd be some changes goin' on round here.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 7, 2016 - 06:52am PT
Could you enlighten me to exactly how it is in the government's interest to have high healthcare costs?

Thanks!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 7, 2016 - 06:54am PT
"The burden of healthcare and education? Um, how about that burden fall to the individual? Novel thought I know, but hey."

More libertarian bulsh#t



It does fall on us in the way of taxes that we pay. Seems other first world countries have it figured out.


Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 7, 2016 - 09:07am PT
From DMT: what is an I9 and what is its purpose?

According to Wikipedia:
The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) required employers to verify that all newly hired employees present "facially valid" documentation verifying the employee's identity and legal authorization to accept employment in the United States.[1] The I-9 form or more properly the Employment Eligibility Verification Form is provided by the federal government for that purpose.[2] Every employee hired after November 6, 1986 must complete an I-9 form at the time of hire. Employees must complete Section 1 of the form at the actual beginning of employment. The employer must complete Section 2 within three days of starting work.[1] The employer is responsible for ensuring that the forms are completed properly, and in a timely manner.

This is on the employer, not the employee, from a legal standpoint.

My point was not that a person who comes into the US without legal documentation isn't breaking any laws(they are, immigration ones), but that their wages paid are not illegally gained. They "have the right" to be paid, regardless of their immigration status, according to the link/excerpt I supplied.

Believe me - if a person didn't have the RIGHT to be paid, a good portion of those hiring undocumented peopled would not be paying them. In fact, they sometimes don't. It's called slavery. Human trafficking is a large problem, only barely getting a bit of light shined upon it these days. One BIG reason employers of undocumented workers don't enslave them is simply the fear of, as mentioned above on taxes, "the men with the rifles coming to collect." They know the workers would(eventually) revolt, and they would be exposed.

_

As for Ivanka's scarves which don't meet the specifications regarding flammability - This is a tough one, IMO, to blame solely on her, simply because of the way licensed business is set up. She rents her name to others, who design, manufacture and distribute the goods. The contracts are renewed or not, as they expire, and so a line of goods made by Company X one year may be made by Company Y the next. These companies, in turn, work with the overseas factories and their level of oversight varies greatly. The overseas company will also sometimes subcontract the production, and the level of oversight then is often little to none.

This is the way the VAST majority of production on US imported products is made.

Interestingly: Below is a link to "career" opportunities at her fashion company: http://www.ivankatrump.com/careers/

One opening is for a Licensing Design Manager, who would be a liaisson in her company with companies which are licensing her brand. That person would, in theory, have some relationship with Quality Control, but in reality not so much.
http://www.ivankatrump.com/careers/

Also, the "real" name of her company is IT Apparrel II, and surprise - it is a shell company, based out of Deleware: http://www.company-detail.com/company-it-apparel-ii-llc-4319604
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 7, 2016 - 09:38am PT
As for Ivanka's scarves which don't meet the specifications regarding flammability - This is a tough one, IMO, to blame solely on her, simply because of the way licensed business is set up. She rents her name to others, who design, manufacture and distribute the goods. The contracts are renewed or not, as they expire, and so a line of goods made by Company X one year may be made by Company Y the next. These companies, in turn, work with the overseas factories and their level of oversight varies greatly. The overseas company will also sometimes subcontract the production, and the level of oversight then is often little to none.

Good assessment....
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 7, 2016 - 10:17am PT
I just had a vision of said flags.... They would have gold and silver stripes, with a red field, and the stars would be little gold T's....

Dingus - Burberry, the Trumps aren't... They're more like Burberry Knockffs one sees for sale from those sidewalk vendors. And we know those aren't made in Scotland!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 7, 2016 - 10:28am PT
I agree that one SHOULD bear responsibility when we put our name on something, but it's pretty obvious that plenty do not, and legally they get away with it.

Personal responsibility was one reason I left working in the fashion industry. The vast majority of US brands are imported using 3rd world labor, and it all comes at a price.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 7, 2016 - 10:53am PT
Well, I've looked into it. So far I can't find any connection to Donald Trump.

Really? Thanks, I don't have time to peruse eleven million documents!!!

Strong work man!
dirtbag

climber
Apr 7, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
It's speculation. I read the article,

But mere speculation is clearly enough for zealous Hillary haters/conspiracy loons like you to crucify her.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 7, 2016 - 02:23pm PT
Could you enlighten me to exactly how it is in the government's interest to have high healthcare costs?

The healthcare industry lobbies and bribes Congress to pass legislation that allows exorbitant prices, monopolies, mergers, etc. The healthcare industry benefits from the legislation by making obscene profits. Some of those profits are then funneled back to Congressmen and used to finance the most powerful lobbyists in Washington D.C.

Congressmen and lobbyists - our government - benefit from high healthcare costs by receiving a portion of excessive corporate profits. In return, the government cooperates with the the healthcare corporations, for example by deregulating the industry, which further increases consumer costs and increases profits for the corporations. Some of those profits are then paid to Congressmen and lobbyists - our government to continue the relationship. Congress and the lobbyists cooperate with the healthcare industry, passing legislation that benefits the corporations at the expense of the public. The excessive profits earned are partially used to enact more legislation that favors the corporations, which earn more profit that is shared with Congressmen and lobbyists.

This is similar to the relationship Wall Street banks have with Congress.

Both corporate groups have established self-perpetuating malfeasance machines that are parasites on the economic system, and which are killing the host, the American economy.








One analysis of the Panama Papers noted that the relative lack of American names is due to use of American shell companies, incorporated in Delaware, Nevada and Wyoming. There is no need to go overseas when stateside shell companies can do much of the same thing. For example, a shell company based in Nevada can transfer funds anonymously to offshore bank accounts.

English-speaking law firms in the Cayman Islands are commonly used by Americans to establish foreign shell corporations. The Panama Papers are from one law firm that specializes in shell corporations. There are hundreds, or thousands, of similar law firms all around the world. Europeans and Asians tend to favor remote corporations, to distance themselves from oversight by their own governments. The United States, by comparison, has much less oversight, and it is easier for Americans to hide their money through domestic shell companies.



Trump's properties will appear in the Panama Papers when the actual owners of high-end New York City real estate are disclosed. 60% of all recent high-end real estate in NYC has been purchased secretly, using shell companies as a front. Concealing the identity of the actual owners requires the cooperation of sellers, lawyers, real estate brokers and on-site employees. Anonymity has been one of the biggest selling points for expensive NYC real estate. Trump has been complicit in maintaining the anonymity of buyers of his high-end NYC properties.

For years, it has been known that foreign despots, drug cartels, Russian gangsters and other criminals have used NYC real estate to launder and sequester dirty money. NYC has had a booming real estate market recently, largely because of this influx of dirty foreign money. Los Angeles has also seen a recent boom in high-end real estate, and much of that is also purchased using anonymous shell companies. NYC, in particular, enjoyed the success of the real estate boom, pretending to be oblivious to their complicity in the criminals' enterprises. Trump will, no doubt, deny any knowledge of criminals buying his super-premium skyscraper apartments.

Trump World Tower is about 50% owned by shell corporations. His other high-end properties are similarly owned. Trump's properties are referenced in a series of New York Times articles about shell companies and real estate (cited below).

Trump will be shown to have turned a blind eye to the source of dirty real estate money, so he could sell his multi-million dollar sky-palaces at a huge profit for himself.



New York City just recently demanded that actual ownership - people, not shell company names - must be disclosed.



New York Times series of articles on shell companies being used to conceal real estate ownership

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 7, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
New York City just recently demanded that actual ownership - people, not shell company names - must be disclosed.

And why is that??


















Well I'll tell ya why.
It's because

[Click to View YouTube Video]
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 7, 2016 - 10:01pm PT
Trump proposes to reduce government overreach by eliminating the Dept of Environmental
You cannot make this sh*t up...
[Click to View YouTube Video]

At least Rick Perry wanted to eliminate 3 real departments of the federal government even if he could only remember 2 of them ;-)
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 8, 2016 - 12:04am PT
It's not either/or; both are breaking the law. Both are doing so intentionally.

Pretty simple. Fine employers $10k for each illegal they hire and make it a felony on the third occurrence. No more 'illegal aliens'...
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Apr 8, 2016 - 12:28am PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 8, 2016 - 06:46am PT
Pretty simple. Fine employers $10k for each illegal they hire and make it a felony on the third occurrence. No more 'illegal aliens'...

Oh yeah. It's that easy. I mean, three strikes worked so well with everything else, why not apply it to immigration laws.

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

It seems like there is no limit to the level of rationalization some people will do to avoid the reality that the reason there is a problem is due to the vast subsidy network that brings many of them here. Free education, free healthcare and best of all their kids get in free. What's not to like? Especially in contrast to Mexico or Guat.

If you lay out a picnic, you get ants. If we take away the source of the attraction, we are left with hardworking people, just like we want. But that would require people to give up their favorite pet subsidy or wealth distribution scheme and we can't have that can we.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 8, 2016 - 07:11am PT
^^You could not be any more wrong. Throw the employers in jail, and illegal immigration will stop when the jobs dry up.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Apr 8, 2016 - 07:50am PT
I think Escopeta makes a good point on social benefits to illegals...welfare, food stamps, emergency room services, under the table income.
Sure, go after employers, but would you rather be unemployed in the US or working for peanuts in Mexico?
If I was a poor Mexican, I would take advantage of the same loopholes.

There is also the issue of "illegals" brought to this country as children, known as "dreamers".
The 9th circuit just ruled on Arizona having to issue drivers licenses to "dreamers"
Some kind of amnesty will probably have to be implimented on "dreamers" to make up for the government's negligence in immmigration over the past 30+ years.
(My sister's in-laws immigrated legally from Mexico back in the 50's).

Drying up ALL the incentives will mostly take care of the illegal problem.
We sure don't need to inhumanely start checking papers and deporting illegals
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Apr 8, 2016 - 07:58am PT
There is no problem with motivated/strong/industrious people working here and providing value by busting their balls. So they don't "pay taxes"... good for them.

To prevent the sociopathic killers and drug mules from crossing, we need to end the absurd "War on Drugs". That'll go away almost overnight.

As far as people coming over and abusing our welfare system.... well, as esco stated above, fix the welfare system. You can never, ever, fix a demand-side problem by attempting to manipulate supply. There is no wall tall enough or barb-wire sharp enough to prevent people moving onto a landmass this size if free sh!t is being handed out.





madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 8, 2016 - 08:39am PT
Many good points....

HEAVILY fine those that hire illegals.

Eliminate the utterly failed "war on drugs."

Eliminate the "picnic" that attracts ants.

One problem we face is the combination of missing work-ethic and the demand for ever-higher wages for menial labor. If you insist that a (legal) field-worker must be paid $15 per hour, then a head of lettuce is going to triple (or more) in price. There's a BIG problem with the mentality that one should be able to "raise a family" on a minimum-wage job!

I started out by literally cleaning up dog-poop at a vet's office. Minimum wage at that time was in the low $3s per hour. I wasn't out sleeping around, popping out kids I couldn't support, and moaning that "I can't raise my family on that wage." Instead, I PAID (and went into debt) for my own education, meanwhile worked hard at the vet's office to increase my value to him, ultimately became a surgical assistant (at four times my starting pay), and worked hard to increase my VALUE in the marketplace. Surprise, surprise, the marketplace pays MUCH more for my skills now than it paid for what I had to offer when I started.

A menial job is a STARTING job, and the opportunities for upgrading your skills (and value in the marketplaces) are STILL far better in the USA than anywhere else. Those that insist on "working the bottom" have my sympathy (on lots of levels), but a head of lettuce is (overnight) simply not worth $6!

So, we're going to see a LOT change in this country, and very quickly, with this minimum-wage movement. And Americans are going to "pay the piper" as soon as illegal labor is eliminated and all the menial workers are making $15 per hour. LOL
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Apr 8, 2016 - 08:47am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 8, 2016 - 08:56am PT
Pay a fair market price for lettuce? OMG the world will end.

Just for clarity's sake, a price that is inflated via imposed minimum wage standards is the antithesis of a fair market price.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 8, 2016 - 09:28am PT
MEH, much ado about nothing - lettuce has no food value.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 8, 2016 - 10:28am PT
A steak sounds good!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 8, 2016 - 11:24am PT
Pay a fair market price for lettuce? OMG the world will end.

The point isn't lettuce, obviously. The point is that by artificially inflating minimum wage, with the incorrect idea that a person on minimum wage SHOULD be "making a living" or "supporting a family," you artificially inflate the prices of goods/services beyond what the middle class SHOULD have to pay.

If you're going to make the price of lettuce go up to enable minimum-wage workers to "support a family," then you HAVE to double middle-class wages to support what things are then going to cost.

Wages (and the costs of goods/services) are joined at the hip. You can't raise a "microcosm" of wages in a vacuum and just expect the middle class to foot the (yet another) bill!

So, yes, in a sense the "world will end," as you see the middle class go down the toilet and an ever-increasing number of people needing "assistance." The question is ALREADY pressing: WHO is going to pay for all of this?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 8, 2016 - 11:41am PT
The war on the poor continues here on ST.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 8, 2016 - 11:51am PT
Yep, and most are too stupid to realize that their supposed humanitarian, thoughtful, altruistic suggestions on how to plan the economy and regulate the un-regulate-able plays directly into the hands of the rich and elected elite.

But you apparently would rather feel good and keep up appearances that you are in it for the "little guy" rather than actually help them.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 8, 2016 - 11:51am PT
The war on the poor continues here on ST.

If we can get beyond loaded language like "war on" and "exploit," perhaps we can actually work toward genuine solutions. That would start by considering our various presuppositions.

It seems that you guys think that the lowest-end labor the market will sustain SHOULD be a "living" or "family-raising" wage. I do not.

Thus, I do not agree from the get-go that it's a "war on the poor" or "exploitation" to expect that the products of low-end labor will be dirt-cheap (no pun intended).

What I expect is that "the poor" will learn more marketable skills for which the market will pay them more. Being "poor" can and should be a temporary condition, occupied primarily by those that are "starting out" in life. I EXPECT those that are "starting out" to be personally responsible enough to not "start" pumping out kids that they cannot support. Thus, the whole "raise a family" bit is a non-starter for me.

Then, as parents typically did raising my generation, parents can explain to their kids: "Dig your ditches and harvest fruits and vegetables while you work your way through school, so that you DON'T have to spend your life digging ditches and harvesting fruits and vegetables."

As I said, I started out cleaning up dog-poop. But I SURE wasn't raised to think that society owed me a LIVING-wage if I just settled into cleaning up dog-poop for the rest of my life!
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 8, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
If the middle class wants lettuce they can goddamn well grown their own if they won't want to pay fair market price for someone else to do their labor for them,

Have a nice day...

I'm not against minimum wages and raising minimum wages in some situations.
But the above quote seems to reflect a very poor understanding of what "market" means.
The word "fair" essentially has no meaning in economics as far as I can tell, but "market" does.
Minimum wages are disruptions of markets--they use the power of government compulsion to forbid contracts that would otherwise be entered into.
When parties are forbidden from entering into agreements that the government prohibits, they may or may not enter into other contracts that the government allows--depends on the situation.

Even if someone thinks higher minimum wages are overall a good idea, he can't say that there is at least some cost in the sense that some people won't be hired who otherwise would be, and the higher minimum wage has therefore made both parties poorer in those cases (the worker doesn't get any pay whatsoever, the employer doesn't get any work). Or put another way, if you don't understand this concept, you really have no business even having an opinion on minimum wages.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 8, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
It seems you think entire classes of workers should provide you with sustenance even though they can't make a living from the labor they provide.

It's not "disgusting" to think that utterly unskilled laborers SHOULD NOT be able to "make a living" from their labor.

Entry-level jobs are just that: A START in the labor force, NOTHING more. It's only a fairly recent entitlement mentality that GOT entry-level workers imagining that they SHOULD be "making a living" on their wages. Nobody thought that when I was a young worker, and I sure didn't feel "disgustingly abused" when I was a young, entry-level worker.

By your logic (of entitlement), strawberry-pickers should be making AT LEAST $50k per year, to have them firmly in the middle class! After all, ANYTHING less than firmly middle-class is "exploitation!"

If you agree, then you are not living in reality, and you clearly have no sense of economic cause/effects.

If you don't agree, so you think that there is SOME "lower point" than $50k per year that is "acceptable," then you are just arbitrarily drawing lines of "exploitation."

Hey, there are people that earn $500k and more per year. I don't! NOT FAIR!

Waahhh, wahhh, wahhh... NOT FAIR that I don't make as much as other people do!

Edit: See, the fundamental difference between our modes of thought is this....

You think that dime-a-dozen worker are ENTITLED to $50k per year, so that they can "have" everything that any other "middle class" person "has." I do not. There is a "market," and, even with governmental manipulation of the minimum-wage, entry-level workers will NEVER be "middle class." That is because SO much of good/services ARE priced according to costs of production. Raise the costs of production, and you NECESSARILY raise the costs of goods/services. So, if you raise the minimum wage, you NECESSARILY raise the amount that the "middle class" has to be making in order to maintain ANY status quo.

But if you raise the threshold to the "middle class," then, even though you've raised the minimum wage to get the "poor" into the "middle class," you find that the "middle class" just got harder to get into. And, yet again, you've got the "poor" below the "middle class." So, you didn't accomplish what you set out to do. ALL you did was increase inflation.

Then, the "fed" "fixes" that problem by plunging the economy into yet more debt (that it owns and charges US interest on), and we kick the can down the road again. But, eventually the piper must be paid, and even the USD cannot sustain endless effective-deflation before the world abandons it as the reserve currency. And when that happens, we (well, the next generation) WILL have to REALLY pay the bills for its entitlement mentality.

The only good part of this saga is the poetic justice of the fact that the "entitlement" generations that followed mine WILL be the ones to ultimately pay for their "money (value) grows on trees" mentality.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 8, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
There's a lot of evidence that workers not paid a living wage rely on public subsidies. Some might say "so what, cut the subsidies too" but most people do not have the heart to do that. We pay either way.

Frankly though, a lot of the cheap stuff we buy does not reflect its true cost in terms of labor costs or environmental impacts. Someone else ends up paying, just usually not us comfy white folks drinking our craft beers.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 8, 2016 - 12:53pm PT
There's no simple solution.

The problem is if we make the minimum wage too high it hurts the very people it's supposed to help because employers will just eliminate many low paying jobs. e.g. cashiers at supermarkets or fast food will be replaced by touch screens.

Without a minimum wage many employers will exploit workers. But there are many jobs that are really only worth minimum wage (e.g. field workers) and if we pay them as much as what some skilled laborers now make (e.g. hair dressers) why would anyone get the education and/or skills to work at the next tier up?

I guess we are going to see what will happen when CA increase's it's minimum wage to $15. At least we are doing it over time so we can back down if it screws things up.

Entry-level jobs are just that: A START in the labor force, NOTHING more.

For smart, educated people yes. But take a look at it with empathy and you'll see for people of limited intellect, or people struggling to get by and working multiple jobs that don't have time to better their situation entry level jobs have to be a career.

I think a bigger problem is rampant income inequality where a smaller and smaller part of the population is getting more and more of the income and wealth. If we keep going in the direction of the last 30 years we'll end up with 0.1% of the population controlling 99% of the wealth and that's a recipe for disaster. Philosophically I don't think the govt. should be trying to alter the free market economics much, but practically we have to do something or things will get really messed up. The main thing we should do is increase taxes on incomes (all types) over $1 million and balance the budget but those are the people that have the money to buy politicians and keep that from happening.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 8, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
I like my craft beers. A lot.

I'm a pretty comfy white guy, too.

Does this make me a bad person?
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 8, 2016 - 12:55pm PT
There's a lot of evidence that workers not paid a living wage rely on public subsidies. Some might say "so what, cut the subsidies too" but most people do not have the heart to do that. We pay either way.

Direct subsidies are probably better than minimum wages--less disruption to markets.
As with so much of liberal "economics," it's easy to see those who minimum wages help--there is a class of worker whose wages will go up when the minimum wage goes up.
It takes a little more perception to see those harmed minimum wages hurt--those whose salaries will go to zero.
(It's true that higher minimum wages may also harm employers and consumers, but I like to focus on the would-be workers who are forced out of the labor market by minimum wages--the employers and consumers are just a side issue, we need lower or no minimum wages to help the poor!)
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 8, 2016 - 01:02pm PT
MB1:
missing work-ethic

You're right about that. There's no respect for the work ethic in this country. Take you for example.

There's this thing here in America, the world's greatest nation, called, I kid you not, "the working poor."

If just the sound of that doesn't fill you with disgust...
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 8, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
"utterly unskilled laborers"

A person working a job in a hamburger shack is required to have a set of skills that include the soft skills of customer service, an ability to run a register and make change, fill out forms, retain a level of inventory stock, and so on. It is sad to me that people do not acknowledge such skills, yet omg IF THEY DON'T GET A SMILE AND A THANK YOU WITH THOSE FRIES WHEN THEY ORDER.(oops cap lock...).

It USED to be that a person who was "unskilled" could work in a factory and make a wage that supported themselves and a family. Those jobs went overseas, to cheap labor and countries which don't have the environmental restrictions we do. People think it was just for the cheap labor, while forgetting the pollution aspect.

When the manufacturing jobs dried up, people were left with the dregs - crappy jobs in malls and telephone answering banks(unskilled? Have you ever had to remain calm when someone is screaming at you because they cannot figure out how to manage settings on some electrical device they purchased?)


It isn't a simple cause and effect that has gotten us where we are. To suggest otherwise is naive. There has been a series of changes, and some have had unintended consequences.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 8, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
So, if we don't like the definition of unskilled labor we just move the goalposts?

That is, indeed, the American way. I'll grant you that.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 8, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
MB1:
Entry-level jobs are just that: A START in the labor force, NOTHING more.

the Fet:
For smart, educated people yes. But take a look at it with empathy and you'll see for people of limited intellect, or people struggling to get by and working multiple jobs that don't have time to better their situation entry level jobs have to be a career.

The Fet beat me to it. For him (her?), or Dingus, or MadBolter, or me, yes, entry level jobs are just a start. If, later in life, we're still doing those jobs, for sh#t wages, we have no one to blame but ourselves, and no right to ask others (through taxation) to give us something we never bothered working for.

But not everyone is capable of moving beyond that kind of work. We were all born with well-above-average intelligence, probably raised by parents who encouraged us to strive toward making a good life for ourselves, probably white... And we've managed to stay healthy enough for long enough to see the results of our striving.

But not everyone is capable of what we are capable of. Is it right that we should live long and prosper while someone of limited intelligence is condemned to eternal poverty?

Most of you argue as if there were only one right answer and that answer was universally applicable.

It ain't that simple.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 8, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
Young people don't live with their parents anymore

BwaHaHaHa! I'll bet you more do now than 20 or 30 years ago. And if
they don't actually live with them then a whole lot are still mooching.
That's why they're so stoked about Bernie cause he'll expand the moochies
base.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 8, 2016 - 01:41pm PT

But what about True Libertarians?

They believe there should be no minimum wage of any kind, think pre 1938 America.

No unemployment benefits if you lose your job, no food stamps, no "welfare" of any kind.

Just pay enough in taxes to protect us with a good military, that's about it.

Everyone is on their own, and pride in "foo jiggum jack I got mine so don't ask me for nothing"

Some say this attitude is immature and the product of a younger and less developed brain, often associated with people who benefit from the public efforts of others, see themselves as being Hard Working, Industrious, Good Moral Fiber and Ethics and see others as slackers who are fully responsible for their own lot in life.

Of course, I side with the Libertarians as I had to work for everything I got in life
and never asked for handouts from the government, worked shitty jobs to pay my own way through college and deserve everything I have. I could go on and on about how I pulled myself up by my own bootstraps and should not have to pay taxes to "help" anyone else who is not as smart and willing to work as I am.
raymond phule

climber
Apr 8, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
I really cant understand madbolters view point. He seems to argue in a way that implies (and it is possibly that he believes) that it is really bad to live in Europe and other western countries.

How could we in Europe manage to live with high minimum wage (or similar systems), social security, public health insurance, etc when the same systems is supposed to "destroy" USA?
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 8, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
How could we in Europe manage to live with high minimum wage (or similar systems), social security, public health insurance, etc when the same systems is supposed to "destroy" USA?

You do it by running an unemployment rate that is about twice as high as in the US.
Would that "destory" the US?
Certainly not, just make it economic basket case, a la Europe.
raymond phule

climber
Apr 8, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
That's really not true for most European countries
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Unemployment_rates,_seasonally_adjusted,_February_2016.png
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Apr 8, 2016 - 02:47pm PT

Of course, I side with the Libertarians as I had to work for everything I got in life
and never asked for handouts from the government, worked shitty jobs to pay my own way through college and deserve everything I have. I could go on and on about how I pulled myself up by my own bootstraps and should not have to pay taxes to "help" anyone else who is not as smart and willing to work as I am.

So your entire education was 100% private and not supported by any taxes anywhere along the way???
monolith

climber
state of being
Apr 8, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
Also, the US unemployment rate could be much higher, due to not calculating those who no longer seek work. This makes it hard to compare unemployment rates due to the different definitions of unemployment.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 8, 2016 - 02:51pm PT



ive with high minimum wage (or similar systems), social security, public health insurance, etc when the same systems is supposed to "destroy" USA?

Oh now, you have to be patient with us Americans

Evolution takes time and in some ways Europe is way ahead of us.

Often we have to wait for some people to get old and die off so their
votes don't count anymore, there still is a good sized block of white
racists around...among other intellectual giants that have to leave




guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 8, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
If Europe paid its fair share for the "Defense of Europe" they might not have the extra coin to do all the social things they do.

Time to trim NATO

And the GD United Nations.

Enuf $$$$ down a rat hole.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 8, 2016 - 03:20pm PT
you'll see for people of limited intellect, or people struggling to get by and working multiple jobs that don't have time to better their situation entry level jobs have to be a career.

I'll quickly respond to just this one, as the same sentiment has been expressed many times.

The problem is that "living wage" implies a certain STANDARD of "living" to most of you.

This nation was never set up to GUARANTEE any particular standard of living.

If you really ARE so intellectually incapable, etc., etc., then DON'T BREED! There's a start!

Next, DON'T ASPIRE to having a new car, a nice apartment, a cell phone, a computer with high-speed Internet, cable TV (and a big flat screen to watch it on)... and the list goes ON and ON of the things that are now taken to be the MINIMUM you "need" to "live on".

Even the "poor" in this nation have it MUCH better than most of the rest of the world, and they do not NEED the vast majority of the things that you liberals like to describe as "living."

So, for the VERY FEW who really are so utterly limited in their capabilities that there is NO possibility of upward mobility (these truly are edge cases!), then, yes, they are NOT going to "live" like even lower-middle-class people.

And, again, if you know somebody like that, PLEASE urge them in the strongest possible terms: You are NOT entitled to BREED, so DO NOT do it!
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Apr 8, 2016 - 03:49pm PT
And, again, if you know somebody like that, PLEASE urge them in the strongest possible terms: You are NOT entitled to BREED, so DO NOT do it!

And certain politicians are making it hard as hell to get birth control or God forbid an abortion.
The reality is without an enlarging population base many consumer goods businesses would go belly up. I've often thought there is more to restricted abortion and birth control access than some principled belief about life at conception.

Susan

Ps. The use of the term "breeding" is really taking child bearing and rearing to the lowest common denominator.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 8, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
DON'T BREED!

This is one of my favorite conservative fears - poor people breeding - especially so when they do everything humanly possible to restrict the poor's access to the resources which would allow them to reduce their breeding.

Ditto for homosexuality - if conservatives don't like gays they should just stop having them.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 8, 2016 - 04:23pm PT

This nation was never set up to GUARANTEE any particular standard of living.

Times change...

The founders also envisioned a country where half of it holds people in bondage indefinitely.

they do not NEED the vast majority of the things that you liberals like to describe as "living."

Straw man alert!
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 8, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
Jesus will take away their gayness
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 8, 2016 - 05:11pm PT
Seriously, you can't be serious.

I most certainly am. Have you seen Idiocracy? In my own lifetime I've seen much too much reality being stranger than fiction!

You guys can't have it both ways.

Either there are VERY few people that are literally not upwardly-mobile, or there are a statistically-significant number of them.

If the former, then there are VERY few people to whom what I'm saying applies. Let's figure out WHO they are, help THEM to have a minimal "living," and be done with the discussion. No problem.

If the latter, then (as you'll see below), let's get serious about what constitutes a "living" WHILE they are briefly in "starter" mode, knowing that they won't have to spend their lives there.

The word "breed" most certainly does apply in FAR too many cases! Too many people are having kids that they KNOW they cannot afford to RAISE, so calling it "child rearing" really is not an accurate assessment of their utterly irresponsible behavior.

And since the "masterminds" seem to know what is an "acceptable living" (clearly something beyond what is possible on minimum-wage today), perhaps you'd like to inform us all about the actual "living" you think that EVERYBODY (regardless of capacity to produce value in the marketplace) should have. So, some yes or no answers to the following would be helpful to see how we might budget the minimally-acceptable "living."

Food (tell us how many steaks per week, etc.)

Housing (how many bedrooms per wage-earner?)

Clothing (Nikes and other name-brands, or is Walmart clothing okay?)

Education (public? and for how many years?)

A reliable car (how recent of year? model? nice stereo in it? Etc.?)

Gas for that car (how much per month?)

Insurance for that car

A garage for that car (attached to a condo, or just part of the apt. complex?)

A cell phone (tell us about the plan its on)

Cable/Dish/Direct TV (tell us about the number and type of channels that are minimal for a "living," such as at least one premium/movie channel?)

Flat-screen TV set (what size is minimal for a "living"?)

Illegal drugs

Cigarettes

Occasional prostitutes/escorts (at lease no breeding that way)

Alcohol (for the vices, please explain the minimal amount/frequency that constitute a "living")

Going out to eat (frequency and caliber of restaurant)



You get the picture. I really want to know what counts as the "living" that minimum-wage earners supposedly can't "make".

Then I'll show you a budget under which they can, even at, say, $8 per hour.

There's no "amenities" in that budget! But YOUR claim is that it's not even a "living".

I say that if you CANNOT or WILL NOT contribute better than dime-a-dozen value to the marketplace, then you are not "entitled" to ANY "amenities".

And don't bag on me too hard, because I've LIVED the no-amenities lifestyle I'm talking about. It's not "fun," but it IS doable, especially when you ARE upwardly mobile and committed to making the upward moves.

So, seriously, let's talk about this "living" and see where it goes.

Meanwhile, sorry, but I stand by my "breed" comment. Everywhere I look now I see kids that the parents had NO business bringing into the world. You are NOT entitled to have kids! And you are NOT entitled to have "us" all pitch in to buy healthcare, education, food, etc. for the kids you KNEW you could never afford to "rear" on your own. When you KNOW that you cannot engage in genuine child-rearing (that YOU are responsibly paying for), then you ARE doing nothing but breeding.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 8, 2016 - 05:13pm PT
The founders also envisioned a country where half of it holds people in bondage indefinitely.

That is an UTTERLY BS comment, and you know it. If that's the level at which you're going to "argue," then you cannot in ANY sense be taken seriously.


Edit: A REALITY check for you:

1) Written and researched by black scholars, see http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2012/10/how_many_slaves_came_to_america_fact_vs_fiction.html. I quote:

And how many of these 10.7 million Africans were shipped directly to North America? Only about 388,000. That's right: a tiny percentage.

In fact, the overwhelming percentage of the African slaves were shipped directly to the Caribbean and South America; Brazil received 4.86 million Africans alone! Some scholars estimate that another 60,000 to 70,000 Africans ended up in the United States after touching down in the Caribbean first, so that would bring the total to approximately 450,000 Africans who arrived in the United States over the course of the slave trade.

And that's over the ENTIRE COURSE of the slave-trade, spanning the period from 1525 to 1866, HUNDREDS of years!, not the number per year!

Reliable census data (see: http://www2.census.gov/prod2/decennial/documents/00165897ch14.pdf)spanning the years from 1790 to 1860 shows that the maximum number of slaves in the USA was about 3.9 million in 1860.

In 1860, the USA had a "white" population of about 31 million. So, let's start with the FACT that your "half" is WILDLY overblown. It doesn't even qualify as "hyperbole for effect." It's just ridiculously, entirely incorrect!

2) Nothing in the founding documents indicates anything like "perpetual slavery" for even the TINY proportion of slaves among the population. In fact, it can WELL be argued that at that time only the USA had founding documents that in principle provided for the FREEDOM of all.

3) Your comment can't even be taken as "half" in the sense of slaveholders! From this census data (http://www.civil-war.net/pages/1860_census.html) at MOST 8% of families and only a few hundred thousand individuals (out of 31,000,000 people in the USA) in 1860 owned slaves. And 1860 was the peak.

So, there is NO good faith in your "argument." You'll have to do MUCH better than that if you want to bag on the founders or the original intent of the constitution.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 8, 2016 - 09:03pm PT
Yes mb, half. The southern half. I didn't say half the population were slaves.

You misread it.

And you're simply wrong about the constitution. Many provisions were put in the constitution to ensure that slavery was protected. Representation in the electoral college and in congress, for example, were based in large part on non-voting slaves being counted (the old 3/5 person designation). Well gee, which states did that scheme benefit?

Over 70 years later southern states fought a war to ensure slavery persisted: they certainly wanted to see it endure.





Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 8, 2016 - 09:20pm PT
There is nothing inherently wrong with a Darwinian society, in which only the strong survive, and the weak perish and die off. Such a society would be according to God's Will, and completely in line with how the animal kingdom operates according to His grand design.

If we act like animals, it would make logical sense to turn our backs on the weakest in society, and let nature cull the herd to leave more the rest. For example, people with genetic infirmities, like Down's Syndrome, who don't contribute as much to society, could be used to feed hungry sea life, like fish and crabs and shrimp, which the successful people could then eat. Or, they could be simply turned into Soylent Green.


Cutting off social programs for poor people is the same thing. There is only a difference of degree, and not any difference of intent. Retaining everything for oneself, and not sharing with the less fortunate is not any different from leaving them outside the village for the wolves.

Intentionally ridding society of losers and undesirables has been proposed by Hitler, Trump and some of the other GOP Golden Boys. Cutting off public assistance for the poor is one way to do that, while ostensibly allowing the Winners to sleep at night, and call it God's Will.

Ironically, another GOP goal, outlawing abortion, would have the opposite effect, because it would primarily effect poorer people, and result in more of them. Rich people would simply travel to less-backward countries to have their abortions.




As people, we have the ability to choose what kind of society we want. Civilization was invented to specifically subvert the Law of the Jungle, and to give all people, even the weakest, the chance to survive.


I think it makes sense to include everyone, and to exclude no one. You never know where the next great person is going to come from.


Elon Musk, this year's Man of the Moment, is a wetback from South Africa.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 8, 2016 - 10:08pm PT
Wetback is a derogatory term used in the United States to refer to foreign citizens living in the U.S.


What part of that doesn't apply to Elon Musk? The derogatory part?

Maybe super-rich Elon Musk has hidden money stashed in an overseas bank controlled by a shell corporation, and he deserves it.








But Tom, doesn't your heart get warm when you witness the gardeners applauding a birthday child whacking open a Pinata and all the happiness it gives to the other kids ?


Ummm. I think you missed the point I was making. I think the U.S. should embrace everyone, regardless of how they got here.


The Piñata thing is peanuts.

I've been to a real Mexican birthday party.

I was invited to a Quinceañera, which was ostensibly a birthday party for a fifteen-year old girl. She was the daughter of a a Mexican immigrant, just some blue-collar guy with a mundane job, like a gardener.

About a hundred families all chipped in together, and rented the largest public space in town (the Vet's Hall) and threw this tremendous bash for over 500 people. There were relatives there who had driven several hundred miles from Los Angeles and the Bay Area.

Each family brought some sort of food, so there were about 100 different Mexican dishes, all homemade. There was a giant mountain of presents in the corner. There were bottles of super-premium tequila, just sitting on the tables, for anybody to drink. The walls were covered in colorful paper decorations, and there were piñatas hanging from the roof beams.

At one point, about half of all the people at the party were dancing in a single choreagraphy, led by La Reiniña, who was up front by the band.


At the end of the party, everybody ran around, cleaning the place up so they could get their deposit money back. It took about half an hour.



I'd like to see some stiff-shirted GOP frat boys try to top that party. Ain't gonna happen.

Rich-assed people who put on parties for their debutante daughters have them catered and hire crews to clean up afterward. There is no community, no soul, no integrity to simply throwing money at an event.




BTW, there is no Spanish word Reiniña. I made it up, as a portmanteau of Reina (queen) and Niña (girl). In my mind, it is equivalent to Princessa.

Another term I came up with, which my Mexican friends used to laugh at, but now use, is Pinchoto (Pinchi + Joto).






I have a great admiration and affection for Mexican people and other immigrants from south of the border.

John Fremont illegally stole California from the Mexicans on his own initiative, without any orders or approval from the U.S. government. Later, the U.S. embraced and defended the new territory with gusto.

It's only fair that we share our plunderings with those we plundered.



ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Apr 8, 2016 - 10:27pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 8, 2016 - 10:38pm PT
Dirtbag, because you obviously didn't read it....

3) Your comment can't even be taken as "half" in the sense of slaveholders! From this census data (http://www.civil-war.net/pages/1860_census.html) at MOST 8% of families and only a few hundred thousand individuals (out of 31,000,000 people in the USA) in 1860 owned slaves. And 1860 was the peak.

ANY way you slice the pie, your "half" assessment can't even get started.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 8, 2016 - 10:45pm PT
Eliminate poverty. Somehow, when people are better off, they don't want to have big families.

Everybody I know would love to see that end-result. But how?

How do you do it while retaining even a shred of the groundwork of negative rights that recognize, among other things, ownership?

What principle legitimizes TAKING from some to give to others? None of us are Robin Hood, the government CERTAINLY isn't, and the "rich" and "poor" lines are entirely arbitrary.

Who is indeed mastermind enough to sort it all out fairly? And where does individual responsibility for priorities and life-choices come in?

There's a huge difference between the tiny few who literally CANNOT ever "make it" and the many who simply can't be bothered to pay the price to "make it." (And there are indeed prices to making it.)
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 8, 2016 - 11:00pm PT
The Civil War was largely about economic power and control over the government.

Human rights considerations aside, the North wanted to disempower the agricultural South, so that the industrial North could control the nation. At the time, cotton exports were bringing a lot of wealth to the South from overseas. Slaves were a relatively low-cost resource for the Southern cotton producers.

Not surprisingly, industrial machines, made in the North, replaced slaves on those cotton farms.






BIOTCH: Thanks for the Reagan Moment. That guy was a political zombie, but he was entertaining.



Here's the origin of that joke: Lloyd Bentson handing Dan Quayle his ass in 1988.


The punchline starts at 2:30, but Dan Quayle's non-answer to a question is worth the wait.


[Click to View YouTube Video]

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 8, 2016 - 11:33pm PT
I stand corrected on the Civil War.

It was mostly about eliminating slavery for moral reasons, and only secondarily to eliminate it as an economic resource in the South.

August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Apr 9, 2016 - 10:43pm PT
What principle legitimizes TAKING from some to give to others? None of us are Robin Hood, the government CERTAINLY isn't, and the "rich" and "poor" lines are entirely arbitrary.

Maybe its the same principle says that it is better to have a society that works for everyone rather than a society that has a large, permanent underclass filled with rage that all too frequently erupts in violence.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Apr 9, 2016 - 11:12pm PT
BIOTCH: Thanks for the Reagan Moment. That guy was a political zombie, but he was entertaining.
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 10, 2016 - 01:05am PT
Maybe its the same principle says that it is better to have a society that works for everyone rather than a society that has a large, permanent underclass filled with rage that all too frequently erupts in violence.

I LIKE it!

So, we're going to have a "society" in which we reward rage and violence by instituting institutionalized stealing in order to pay off the extortion.

Excellent!

Yup, when your parents taught you to not steal, they just meant you personally. But if you can get together with enough other people, you know, like a BIG gang, then that makes it not only okay but "moral."
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 10, 2016 - 07:15am PT
Its not stealing if they use big words like Wealth Re-Distribution, Fees, Licensing, Forfeiture and Penalties.

Penalties are my favorite because it gives the impression the payor did something wrong. I mean, who can't get behind that kind of stealing?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 10, 2016 - 08:13am PT
The only stealing i see happening right now are the rich taking from the poor...The 1% are wearing the Robin Hood costume reversing the role and stealing from the working class by paying sh#t wages , tax evasion via Panama bank accounts , and out- sourcing of American jobs...Stealing works both ways...
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 10, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
Stealing works both ways...

Yes it does, and it would actually not be that difficult to take away the "loopholes" that enable rich, corporate theft. So, let's do that. Go Bernie.

But you lose your credibility on the one side of the theft problem when you say things like this....

The only stealing i see happening right now are the rich taking from the poor...

I'm in NO sense "rich," but YOUR value-system literally DID steal from me to "give" to others, when YOU raised my insurance rates 40.02% OVERNIGHT, so that I could PAY for the healthcare of others, regardless of their priorities and lifestyle-decisions. YOU literally STOLE money directly out of MY pocket, FORCING me to now have much more expensive and lessor-quality healthcare, because YOU decided that I had "too much," while somebody else had "too little."

You're not consistent in your view of theft! You are happy to STEAL from even the people that are NOT rich in any imaginable sense! And you justify this by moaning about the 1%. Well, then, if you CAN, you should go after the 1%, not ME!

You screwed the MAJORITY of Americans, almost all of whom are NOT rich by any measure, so that you could pander to the tiny minority. You steal from the wrong people, but that's okay by you, because "we've gotta start somewhere," and, it's better to "pass it so we can know what's in it," it's better to do "something," even if it's a poorly-thought-out disaster that handed us to the insurance companies on a silver platter while reforming NOTHING about the costs of healthcare, than to actually take the time (which might indeed span decades in a complex society) to fully understand the consequences of the "plan"... yeah, that's a SO much better form of THEFT than what the 1% do.

Ridiculous, and disgusting.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 10, 2016 - 01:43pm PT
Oh get over yourself.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 10, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
Oh get over yourself.

Decision to MB1 by forfeit
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 10, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
heard it on the news..... hahahaha. That's a good one. The news!

The "news" has lost more credibility than the politicians.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 10, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
Can someone tell me if these wordy posters are ready for Donald? Short answer please, like under 4500 words.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 10, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
MB.. My sincerest apologies...rj
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 10, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
I just threw up in my mouth a little

after reading a bit of another WOT by MB

I want an apology too.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 10, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
What principle legitimizes TAKING from some to give to others?

It's called capitalism. People make wealth, which is then taken from them and given to the capitalist.

“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.” -- Warren Buffett
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 10, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
Escopetas news of the world comes from Fish and Stream...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 10, 2016 - 03:47pm PT
Escopetas news of the world comes from Fish and Stream...

Its Field and Stream...... SMH
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 10, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
What I heard this morning turns out to have some credibility in my opinion...


You be the judge...

I clicked the link to form an opnion and I got immediately sucked into one of those links that appeared to be Cosmic's gradeschool yearbook picture. Tagline said something about evil baby pictures.

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 10, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
That is an UTTERLY BS comment, and you know it.

Actually, it's not. I only learned a few days ago that our Constitution included clauses which required the return of escaped slaves to their owners the other day. Here is a Wikipedia page about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugitive_slave_laws

As for people deciding that a selection of other people did not have the "right" to breed, our country has already been there, done that and tried to bury the ugly fact. It was referred to as "Eugenics."

So the wealthy alcoholic who beats their kid has the "right" to have children simply because (s)he can afford to pay the hospital bills when the little one ends up with broken bones, but the poor person who adores their child and brings them up in a loving, albeit impoverished, home, doesn't have the "right" to children? What about the wealthy f*#k who rapes and impregnates his servant and then boots her to the curb? What "right" is applied or denied in that kind of situation?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 10, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
Field and Stream...My bad escopeta....Cosmic is the only person i know with a 6 pack forehead...rj
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Apr 10, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
Good post Happiegrrrl.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 10, 2016 - 05:34pm PT
So the wealthy alcoholic who beats their kid has the "right" to have children simply because (s)he can afford to pay the hospital bills when the little one ends up with broken bones, but the poor person who adores their child and brings them up in a loving, albeit impoverished, home, doesn't have the "right" to children? What about the wealthy f*#k who rapes and impregnates his servant and then boots her to the curb? What "right" is applied or denied in that kind of situation?

ALL you're doing in making my point and even expanding upon it.

It's not "eugenics" to say: "Look, PAY your way, or YOU and YOUR kids will suffer the consequences, not the rest of society. It's NOT 'humane' to STEAL from others just because you can't be responsible with your breeding habits."

Beyond that, there are ALL SORTS of reasons that unfit people from having kids. Do YOU want the government involved in every detail of that?

I don't! ALL I want is for people to enjoy their OWN consequences from their OWN decisions. I do not exist as a "backstop" for the poor decisions of an increasing number of irresponsible and even stupid people.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 10, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
What makes you say that, Escopeta????

I'm serious, click Locker's link and then scan the bottom of the page for those silly teaser-links to booty calls and Obama phones.

That picture was about devil babies or serial killer yearbook pics or something.

I thought it captured your good side.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Apr 10, 2016 - 06:22pm PT
@ Madbolter

What is this about taxes etc. being government perpetrated theft? Of course there is waste with tax payers money. There is waste and corruption anywhere money is being handled and it is even worse in the private sector. Oversight (which in itself is corruptible) is required.
Still, the majority in the 1st world are living better than ever. We certainly have more stuff than ever...
Got any examples of countries where you think a smart hard working person like yourself would be better off? Besides Canada that is ;)
Many factors play into how much someone takes home. And talent is often one of the least significant.
You benefit from a fairly civilized society, what's that worth to you?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 10, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
Even her Boots..!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 10, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
What do you think about equally sterilizing all poor, stupid people ?

No need.

They can do whatever they want. ALL I want is for them to pay their own way. When they are TRULY enjoying ALL of their own consequences, then their perspective of child-rearing will indeed change.

It's changed for the worse over the last 40 or so years. It can change back for the better.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 10, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
What is this about taxes etc. being government perpetrated theft? Of course there is waste with tax payers money. There is waste and corruption anywhere money is being handled and it is even worse in the private sector. Oversight (which in itself is corruptible) is required.

I've said this a million times on various threads: I am NOT saying that ALL taxation is theft. The federal government has specific and limited legitimate roles, and those roles were intended to directly benefit the collective with services that in principle could ONLY be performed by a national government (such as national defense, anti-trust regulation, monetary policy, and so forth).

When I pay taxes to support such necessary and legitimate services, I am enjoying a DIRECT benefit. I am paying for something that directly benefits me and that is a service without which we don't HAVE a nation, an economy, and so forth.

Such services are very, very different from "services" in which I enjoy no direct benefit but am instead "buying" a service for somebody else. Instead of the service benefiting the NATION, qua even HAVING a nation, such "services" benefit individuals at the expense of other individuals. The federal government has NO business in any such business.

Thus, the phrase "general welfare" has now been co-opted to mean "welfare" in the socialist-state sense. But our founders intended nothing of the sort.

"General welfare" meant "services necessary for there to even BE a nation at all, which is generally beneficial in the sustaining of negative rights." It did NOT mean what it has now been taken to mean, namely: "Services that are more or less 'generally' beneficial."
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 10, 2016 - 10:09pm PT
MB1, when the fire department extinguishes a blazing building on the poor side of town, are they stealing your money ?

That's a ridiculously loaded question on many levels.

1) You're talking about a local, contractual arrangement between city taxpayers and city fire departments. That is not akin to the feds usurping power left and right!

2) I can pretty trivially move to another town with different taxes and departments. I cannot easily (or at all) move to another nation. This was a point that Jefferson repeatedly made regarding how careful we must be with national government.

3) IF I agree to pay taxes toward a fire department, I do so like "buying insurance" that might or might not ever "pay off" for me. I AM buying a "direct service" TO ME, even if I never personally use it. In NO sense am I paying my money directly to the person whose fire is being put out. I am instead buying MY fire to be put out should it ever need to be.

4) If you are going to try to correlate this with, say, Obamacare, you are talking apples and giraffes! With Obamacare, there is no "escape" by moving to a different town; it's national. Federal taxes are a totally different ORDER of thing from state and local taxes; and our founders recognized this fact throughout their surrounding documents.

Furthermore, "socialism" can work on a small scale, where it is locally managed and where the "connection" between taxpayer and benefit-receiver is very direct and much easier to manage and maintain oversight. I put "socialism" in scare-quotes, though, because MOST of what people call "socialism" is not.

Is insurance in general "socialism?" If you say "yes," then you have abandoned all hope of distinguishing genuine socialism from any other economic system. By your lights, then, EVERYTHING is "socialism," as EVERY sort of "transaction" is some "distribution" of wealth.

I deny this is "socialism," however. There is a demonstrable and principled difference between transactions in which I am buying a benefit FOR MYSELF and those in which I am buying a benefit FOR OTHERS than myself.

In the case of taxes for the fire department, I am not buying this or that particular fire to be put out! I am buying "risk insurance" in which IF, per chance, I MIGHT need MY fire to be put out, there will be a fit and trained organization to handle MY fire in the best possible way. I am buying a direct benefit to myself. Other taxpayers are also buying that same benefit to themselves. Even the "poor" are buying that benefit to themselves.

So, as I said, you are very incorrectly loading your question regarding WHAT is is that I'm buying with my LOCAL taxes.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 10, 2016 - 11:16pm PT
The only time any voter agrees to anything concerning a democracy is at the ballot box every 4 years or whatever time limit is set.

You are now changing the nature of the discussion. You started by talking about whether or not it's a type of "socialism" to pay taxes for a fire department.

I denied that it is and said that conflating such direct-benefit-to-me "purchases" with socialism is incorrect.

There is nothing about this that relates to "democracy" or other forms of "consent of the governed" forms of government. That would be a very different issue, and it would be one that would consider the nature of legitimate government vs. illegitimate government.

And the "practical" issue you just raised also has nothing to do with legitimacy or illegitimacy. Just because people don't care enough to fight against an illegitimate government is not itself evidence in favor of the government's legitimacy!

Finally, it's just a contingent fact that most elections are every four years. If people cared enough about how their money was being spend for, say, a fire department, they could agree together to even more closely monitor spending and even hold much more frequent elections.

It's not, for example, a huge step to get from talking about the government of a Home-Owner's-Association (HOA) to talking about a small municipal government. HOA's typically meet much more frequently than even annually, and the "proximity" of representation is very close. City governments could well more closely resemble HOAs than most large cities. ALL that matters is how "closely" the citizens care to monitor their representatives and expenditures.

How you get from that sort of thing to "socialism" is beyond me.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 10, 2016 - 11:27pm PT
"General welfare" meant...

You mean it's been misinterpreted in the same way a "well regulated Militia" meant every dickless wonder can buy an AR-15, suppressors have a legitimate use in hunting, and the arms industry should be able to saturate the homeland with cheap handguns. Got it.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 10, 2016 - 11:44pm PT
Are you aware of what the term "regulated" meant in "well regulated militia"?

The nation was won not by "dickless" yahoos but by a "militia" that was not as "regulated" as the founders realized they should be: willing but not well trained/equipped.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 10, 2016 - 11:46pm PT
I never said anything about socialism. Contractual agreement between a government service and the those who pay the freight through tax is more like it.

But you have repeatedly extolled (what you call) "socialism." You and many others do treat things like roads and fire departments as examples of "socialism."

Even your "pay the freight" phrase is very vague, but the contractual agreement is not vague, and it is not vague who is doing the paying and the direct benefit to themselves that they are paying for. Nothing could be further from genuine socialism.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 11, 2016 - 06:53am PT
30 to 50% off of the top is much more dear when you make $40,000.00 a year VS the eternal whiners who make 200,000.00 + a year

Your slip is showing.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Apr 11, 2016 - 06:56am PT
Wealth is a wall between you and love and respect. You'll see.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 11, 2016 - 06:59am PT
You mean it's been misinterpreted in the same way a "well regulated Militia" meant every dickless wonder can buy an AR-15, suppressors have a legitimate use in hunting, and the arms industry should be able to saturate the homeland with cheap handguns. Got it.

Its interesting how so many tards on here will instantly try to compare us to Europe on all manner of topics that seem to suit their predilection then remain woefully ignorant on other topics that might not suit their rhetoric.

Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Apr 11, 2016 - 07:04am PT
Mad,
There is a reason that you're not connecting with others and it's not because you have a better understanding of reality.

You talk way too much and think too little.

Socialism:
All government.
All police.
All hospitals.
All schools.
All highways.
All military
Money.
Retirement accounts.
Banking

Your philosophy is intellectual Swiss cheese. It shows a lack of understanding and a very limited and pedantic mind set.

Even your so-called 'free market' only exists because of socialized regulations, highways, communications and transportation as well as treaties and trade agreements.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 11, 2016 - 07:11am PT
There is a reason that you're not connecting with others

So many of you have a horrible habit of trying to speak for others in an attempt to cover up your lack of understanding or, as Donald Trump has so artfully figured out, if you act like you're winning more people will jump on your bandwagon.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Apr 11, 2016 - 07:12am PT
Actually, we are winning.
That's why you guys are mad all the time.
Duh!



Hey Estupido,
You're, just maybe, smart enough to see the hypocrisy here:

So many of you have a horrible habit of trying to speak for others in an attempt to cover up your lack of understanding
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 11, 2016 - 07:21am PT
You talk way too much and think too little.

LOL

Uh, yeah, and YOUR posts really display YOUR scintillating intellect.

BTW, I'm not trying to "connect" with folks like you. Your minds are closed boxes, evidenced by your quick descent into insults.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 11, 2016 - 07:21am PT
Hey Estupido,

Case in point.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Apr 11, 2016 - 07:23am PT
You showed me


How's your team doing in Y'allcatraz? You guys still sending snacks? I remember all y'alls genius prophecies regarding the Bubba's. How'd those predictions go? Lollity. Losers!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 11, 2016 - 07:32am PT
Escopeta posted
So many of you have a horrible habit of trying to speak for others in an attempt to cover up your lack of understanding or, as Donald Trump has so artfully figured out, if you act like you're winning more people will jump on your bandwagon.

Sweet looking kettle you've got there.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 11, 2016 - 07:45am PT
I will try not to gloat when The Hair is back in his reality closet, but I will take great joy in calling him a "failed candidate" the way he kept slamming Romney. So yeah, a little gloating...mua ha hahaha!!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 11, 2016 - 08:35am PT
Sweet looking kettle you've got there

What's the matter HDDJ, that Special Edition White Privilege Keyboard not allowed to type the word "black"?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 11, 2016 - 08:37am PT
Back on topic....

Two of DT's kids didn't switch allegiance to the GOP in time to vote for their own father in the NY state Primary election. They were "unaware of the rules." he was quoted as saying.

At the same time, DT also admitted out loud that he was aware he may not get the required number of delegate votes to win the nomination. It seems that he too, was unaware of the rules (that "It's the Delegates, stupid").

At the SAME time, I was a bit surprised with some of the NY'ers I have talked with recently. One actually said that he believed DT was the type of person who, upon seeing a homeless man on the sidewalk, would give hm a hundred dollar bill." Really? The man who constantly calls people who by most measures are considered successful to be "losers?" This guy is going to give a handout to some anonymous stranger on the street? I don't think so....

Another said, when I made a remark about "this has been an interesting election cycle, for certain," agreed. When I added that I felt we were in a complex situation, he said "No, it's simple, really. Just give it all to Bernie." I swear I saw stars in his eyes while he said it.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 11, 2016 - 08:41am PT
One actually said that he believed DT was the type of person who, upon seeing a homeless man on the sidewalk, would give hm a hundred dollar bill." Really?

yep I believe it.. according to some of his close friends he is not what your hippie media mind thinks he is!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 11, 2016 - 08:45am PT
Flippy, if you read something other than The Daily Worker you might become aware of the sad
fact that your hallowed euro socialists are on their heels and taking some serious head shots.
They are close to being TKO'd if they even survive the next few rounds. Shall I send you my
back issues of The Economist?

Even in their French stronghold Hollande's Bolshies have provoked massive student protests
because the gubmint has <gasp> realized their ridiculous employment laws are hindering
the economy and they've proposed some minor adjustments.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 11, 2016 - 08:51am PT
<gasp>

ROFL
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 11, 2016 - 10:10am PT
ALL I want is for them to pay their own way.

You live in an upside down world.

We want a system in which the worker shall get what he produces and the capitalist shall produce what he gets.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 11, 2016 - 11:08am PT
Gasp!! I'm having palpitations!!! He won!!!!

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2797782/Ideas-Trump-front-page.pdf
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 11, 2016 - 11:16am PT
How is it possible that the people of the great State of Colorado never got to vote in the Republican Primary? Great anger - totally unfair!
D.T.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/04/disgusting-colorado-trump-delegate-scratched-list-gop-convention-cruzers-take-delegates/
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 11, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
We want a system in which the worker shall get what he produces and the capitalist shall produce what he gets.

The line doesn't even make sense. It's as lame as the Riddick line: "You keep what you kill."

And "we" don't want that because it's nothing more than the lie communists tell the "proletariat" as the system enslaves them.

Capitalism has produced the greatest innovations and wealth in human history. Sure, it needs to be regulated so that fraud and corruption are minimized. But I wouldn't trade it for the "opportunity" to jump onto the trailing end of the "grand experiment" that has been socialism around the world for many decades.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 11, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
The RNC is screwing Trump!!!
Are you guys going to take it?

Can't you see you chumps are being played?

You better make some noise about this and go to the top and voice your concerns.
right?


That's what you told us to do when Hillary got more delegates than Bernie.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 11, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
You better make some noise about this and go to the top and voice your concerns.
right?

so is this when the drum circle starts?

get some KOOL aid!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 11, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
You got a be a Kool Aidaholic to want to Vote for Trump

and they will have the drum circle at the RNC convention, you should go Pyro
there will be riots, Yea!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 11, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
Riots from the butt hurt Bernie and Billary nutbags showing up to throw a hissy.

You should go Craig.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 11, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
Well, i am voting for Donald Trump in my state's June Republican Primary.

I feel that he is a man's man, a real live authority figure, who says what he thinks
and does not give in to being "politically correct".

Donald will go all the way and beat the hell out of Hillary Clinton, mark my words.

Did I get it all right?
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 11, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
The line doesn't even make sense.

That's why you support the takers and not the makers.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 11, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
The RNC is quietly plotting for Paul Ryan to be the party's presidential candidate. At the Republican convention, Trump and Cruz will be deemed unfit by party leaders, and the nomination will go to a guy who received exactly zero votes in the primaries.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/11/us/politics/paul-ryan-a-mirage-candidate-wages-a-parallel-campaign.html
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 11, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
That's why you support the takers and not the makers.

You would call my business a "taker," as it's a typical "capitalist" venture. But I assure you that my employees would not agree that we are "takers." They feel privileged to work "for" us and see themselves as "partners" in "our" enterprise.

They are "makers," but so is the company.

Your perspective is awash in false-dichotomies.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 11, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
Your perspective is awash in false-dichotomies.

How so? Do you not believe work should be rewarded at full value?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Apr 11, 2016 - 06:22pm PT

But I assure you that my employees would not agree that we are "takers." They feel privileged to work "for" us and see themselves as "partners".
You are voicing an opinion, a biased one at that.

And as we all know, opinions are not necessarily based on facts.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 11, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
Donald is the gift that keeps on giving, to both parties..
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 11, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
Just another decent company, doing what it is supposed to do: return shareholder profits.

Those darn workers, though. They're just too greedy, and soon they will want to suck off the taxpayer tit, with things like medicare, you watch. Lazy do-no-dooders, that's what those people are. Don't they know they need to work two or three jobs to stay above the poverty level?

Verizon is "attempting to make devastating cut backs" even after "significant worker concessions on healthcare," including:

    Offshoring and contracting out even more customer service work to Mexico, the Philippines and other locations.
    Cutting job security for all workers.
    Requiring technicians to work away from home for as long as two months, without seeing their families. For anyone trying to balance work and family life, this is impossible.
    Refusing to negotiate improvements to wages, benefits and working conditions for Verizon Wireless workers, who formed a union with CWA in 2014.
    Forcing retirees to pay extremely high health care costs.
    Slashing benefits for workers injured on the job.

The unions say Verizon is making these demands despite having made $39 billion in profits over the last three years—and $1.8 billion a month in profits over the first three months of 2016.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 11, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
So, profit is the biggest threat facing America then? Good grief.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 11, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
^^^^
+1
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 11, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
Oh bullsh#t. You don't want a conversation any more than any of the rest of them. Cry me a river.

Have a conversation with Norton. He's right up your alley.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 11, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
obsessive compulsive twit say what?
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Apr 11, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 11, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
That would have been my great grand daddy. Talk to apogee, he seems down.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 11, 2016 - 08:26pm PT
"The white American upperclass is in thrall to a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and excessive consumption of Vleben consumer goods to falsely gain elevation in high society."


The Reagan Revolution was, and is, class warfare. It began with Nixon, and really picked up speed under Reagan. Neo-classical economists, like Robert Rubin, added a tenuous air of legitimacy to the idea that giving everything to the rich people would result in a utopia for everyone.


All of the 2016 GOP candidates, even back when there was a dozen of them, have called for large tax cuts for corporations and rich people, under the logic that this will stimulate economic activity and bring prosperity to everyone.

That same lie has been told every single election since 1980, and every GOP president since then has enacted this type of tax break for the rich. Meanwhile, the lower classes continue to be squeezed out of existence while the wealth of the nation accumulates and is sequestered at the very top.



rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 11, 2016 - 08:59pm PT
GCF...The Rich have gotten a lot of miles out of that dangling carrot...
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 11, 2016 - 09:51pm PT
The riled-up Repubs are more like the people who gathered in front of Bernard Madoff's NYC office, yelling about how they wanted their money back.


They have been duped and conned by sophisticated, rich elites who have convinced them that it is in their own best interest to make sure that the rich get richer.


Now the evidence is in. They are worse off for supporting cuts to social programs, legal restrictions on unions and huge tax breaks for the rich.



The GOP has gone to the well too many times without giving back. The well is dry. The GOP' lies are no longer believable, even to die-hard Republicans.




There used to be a saying, out West. It went, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, and won't get fooled again. - President Bush
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 11, 2016 - 09:59pm PT
Do you not believe work should be rewarded at full value?

Absolutely!

But THE question is: What's "full value?"

WHO gets to decide that? The market? The federal government? State governments? The workers themselves?


And regarding the "opinion" I have about how our employees feel is based upon what they tell us. Not from "polls" or being extorted to "say the right thing." We all work closely together in a very collaborative environment (all of our desks together in one large room), and we all talk and share forthrightly. They repeatedly talk about how much they enjoy what we do and how they wouldn't want to go elsewhere for even double the pay.

I think we've got a pretty good thing going that's fair to our customers and to our employees. Yup, "I think" is biased. But bias is not always incorrect. We are certainly doing the best we can, and my personal salary is lower than some of our employees. So, yeah, the "pres" isn't raping the employees to rake in the big-bucks!

We honestly strive to be a sweepingly ethical company. We could charge our customers upwards of ten times what we do, but we don't. We can "make it" on what we charge, and we're not trying to get "wealthy." For us, it's not "what the market will bear." Our pricing is tied directly to our real costs. So, we are honestly trying to treat our customers and employees right. I believe that this is what capitalism CAN be (and actually is in small businesses across the nation).

So, I don't think that "capitalism" is "the problem." I think that unregulated corporate and shareholder GREED is "the problem". But that has constitutional remedies that should be employed. We just need leaders committed to employing those remedies rather than being in the pockets of the greed and corruption.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 11, 2016 - 10:01pm PT
OK Esco, it was your great grand daddy who provided the wealth that you didn't take for granted but instead gave it away to corporate welfare bums. Congratulations on finding refuge from Planet Earth through Libertarian fantasy.

How do you get "libertarian" out of "corporate welfare"? Seriously, I'm curious what connection you are seeing.

NO libertarian I know or have read supports corporate welfare. Such crap is a violation of the most basic libertarian principles of individual (and corporate) responsibility.

Corporate welfare and bailouts are traditional Republican crap, not libertarian.

Explain, please.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 11, 2016 - 10:29pm PT
So, profit is the biggest threat facing America then?

Missed the point, Esco.

I bet you do that on purpose. Either that, or you are too narrow minded to understand. Here's a hint: CEO pay & shareholder profit vs. the middle class.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 11, 2016 - 11:30pm PT
Many people, from the founder of Cisco to Hillary, have decried the modern CEO's focus on quarterly reports, and the bonus money paid for temporarily raising the stock price.

In the past, a CEO was expected to lead the corporation from a long-term viewpoint, to ensure the future health of the company. The stock price was just one metric of company health, and was not a day-to-day, minute-by-minute fixation for a CEO being paid in stock options.

These days, a quick sale of assets, or a heavily leveraged merger can boost the stock price, but injure the company in the long run. A typical hot-shot CEO will negotiate a huge exit package before he is even hired, so that getting fired for incompetence is not much different from getting a bonus for incompetence.


Cults of personality surrounding CEOs, such as Steve Jobs, inflame the sense of exceptionalism, and further justify outrageous compensation. Not surprisingly, CEOs who are adept at shameless self-promotion (Larry Ellison) are able to convince corporate boards that they are worth $500 million per year. There is a pervasive myth that a CEO - any CEO - is irreplaceable, and must be retained at all costs. Later, when that highly paid CEO is a disaster and is fired (Carly Fiorina) the company finds another irreplaceable and exceptional CEO (Peg Whitman) and pay them even more money.




Hillary has suggested a capital gains tax plan that favors holding stocks longer. This would put less pressure on CEOs to focus only on short term results.

But, the trend is clearly in favor of faster, more frequent stock trading, and not long-term investing. Sales commissions are only earned when stocks are traded, so brokerage firms want their clients to trade as often as possible.

Hillary is going up against an entire Wall Street army, whose latest addiction is hyper-trading stocks with buy-sell cycles as short as a few milliseconds. Complex and expensive customized computer systems are being used to arbitrage the markets a millionth of a cent at a time. Automatic trading algorithms read what the market is doing, and automatically make rapid trades. At the end of the day, there is a net profit for a computer's owner. Sometimes, different computer algorithms can begin feeding nonsense back and forth to each other, and drive stock prices down in a catastrophic Flash Crash.


The new traders are like furious ants, swarming all over a steak, chewing off microscopic pieces for themselves, and pretending that they can take their share and not adversely affect the steak.

The ants are ruining the picnic for everyone else.

Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 12, 2016 - 05:28am PT
Do you not believe work should be rewarded at full value?

Absolutely!

Thanks for the reply.

But THE question is: What's "full value?"

WHO gets to decide that? The market? The federal government? State governments? The workers themselves?

Perhaps a look at the balance sheet of some corporations might be a good start.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 12, 2016 - 07:17am PT
I bet you do that on purpose.

I just go to the areas you intentionally and specifically edit to show in BOLD TYPE.

But its OK if you want to claim you had a different intention once someone calls you on it. I don't mind.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 12, 2016 - 07:18am PT
NO libertarian I know or have read supports corporate welfare

Including yours truly for the record.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 12, 2016 - 07:58am PT
The entire mainstream media along with just about everyone else is using every dirty trick to destroy Trump right now.


Trump is a genius!

even if he gets knocked out the mass of people following him will buy TRUMP memorabilia.. Trump will make money off this entire show.. pure Genius..

The name TRUMP is worth something..
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 12, 2016 - 08:06am PT
madbolter posted
WHO gets to decide that? The market? The federal government? State governments? The workers themselves?

No worker should work full time for below "cost." That is, the amount of money required to purchase necessities, basic healthcare and basic education. If you work full time you should be able to afford the things required to get ahead if that is where you choose to invest your resources.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 12, 2016 - 08:06am PT
But it OK if you want to claim you had a different intention once someone calls you on it.

Until you "call me on it," what a laugh.

A prime case of an over-inflated value of self importance.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 12, 2016 - 08:31am PT
I grow my own lettuce.

America is already great.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 12, 2016 - 08:41am PT
One simple way to relieve the low wage problem

Raise the minimum wage to $15 using Federal mandate.
And raise it every 2 years along with inflation.

Raising the minimum wage is historically known to be an economic stimulus plan

It won't fix all the problems, but it's a start.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 12, 2016 - 08:45am PT
I grow my own lettuce.

America is already great.

Me too! I have a great garden going on.

The rest of the day, I just shuffle papers at my desk.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 12, 2016 - 08:48am PT
I grow succulents and trade them for lettuce
green for green

then do some paper shuffling.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 12, 2016 - 08:51am PT
You guys are all destroying the integrity of the proletariat with your lettuce growing. Damn you!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 12, 2016 - 08:54am PT
Back to the minimum wage quandary - My uncle worked for Sears for most of his entire career. He started in early twenties, in the Men's Department, and moved up to be a manager of that department. As he reached retirement age, he was pressured out of his job, and did his best to continue on, with a lawn care business he began.

Though I am not sure how well that went, I well remember his pride in his store "his company" BITD. When we'd travel from Wisconsin, there was always one visit to him at work, where we would all get our waist size measured by him, and he would proudly talk about the Winnie the Pooh and Geranimals brands his store carried.

He supported a family of five, nicely, on that salary. His wife was a stay-at-home mother the entire time.

Today, a manager of the Men's Department, at Kohls, which would definitely be a competitor to the BITD Sears, pays $10/hour.

Today, Sears is a company with 10,000+ employees, with revenues of $10 Billion+. It is publicly held.

GlassDoor, the website from which I have garnered my numbers, reports that of the 7.1K who have provided reviews, only 31% would recommend the company to a friend as a place to work, and only 21% approve of the CEO.

From the website, It appears Sears doesn't have the title of Department Manager anymore. It seems the same job description would be that of Customer Service - Apparel. Sears doesn't list, that I found, the wages for this, but on national average, it is $34,780($668.84/wk gross pay, with an hourly average of $16.72.).

Of course, we all know that salaried workers who try to get by on 40 hours a week don't last long....

Anyone here have a family of five to support? How does $35K stack up?
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Apr 12, 2016 - 08:57am PT
*
A prime case of an over-inflated value of self importance.

K-man, Lol ..^^^ Once you finally realize Esco ~ Modus operandi...the ignore button works most of the time.
BTW, He posted this ( below) on his first day on supertopo.

"indeed. I figured it was high time SuperTopo received the gift of my opinion on a variety of topics both climbing and non-climbing related.".......


10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Apr 12, 2016 - 09:07am PT
Back to the donnel.

His kids ain't too smart.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trumps-kids-eric-ivanka-miss-deadline-vote/story?id=38303943
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 12, 2016 - 09:11am PT
His kids ain't too smart.

They don't need to be cause they don't grow their own lettuce - daddy does.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 12, 2016 - 09:29am PT
Yes
Let's get back on topic

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 12, 2016 - 10:35am PT
What we need, right now, is for Auric Goldfinger to dip Trump in a vat of gold, and put him on a pedestal in the Trump Tower atrium. That way, people can still admire him, but he can't do any more harm.



Trump rants and raves, like an ex-football player with CTE, which he is. His demented and bombastic outbursts distress the majority of the nation, and have caused Trump to have a 70% disapproval rating.

Clearly, something is amiss with Mr. Trump.

But, nobody has the authority to have him committed to an appropriate facility, even for a cautionary, 72-hour observation period. Trump has paid off doctors to say that his mental health is "perfect" and "the best of any president".

But, then, Trump flies into Podunk in his 757 jet, hops out, and says that he will punish women as criminals, but that he will not punish women as criminals, and that he will respect the law, but that he will get rid of the law and then, he says . . . . . well, really, it changes day to day, hour to hour, and sometimes minute to minute.


Trump is like an aging, oversized, powerful circus elephant that has outlived his wits. The old bull is now crazy and unpredictable and violent and a danger to everyone. The only sensible thing is to put him down, before someone gets hurt or killed.


The only recourse for the GOP, at this point, is for all the members to join forces and conspire against Trump, to get rid of him. They need to gang up on him, the same way everyone from the lion tamer to the acrobats to the bearded lady needs to grab hold of a rope, and drag Jumbo down to the ground to keep him from wrecking the place.


Naturally, Trump's CTE includes a high degree of paranoia, which is revved up to the redline by the GOP's plans for him. Like a cornered bull elephant who has outlived his entertainment value, Trump knows what's in store for him. He bellows his protests to the circus crowd and the media.


A bull facing a matador in a Spanish arena will eventually sense the impending doom he faces. It is at this moment, when he is closest to vanquish, that he is most dangerous. The bull will retreat to a safe spot, his querencia, to regroup, and to plan for his final counter-attack.


When Trump retreats to his querencia to regroup, he will, like a bull facing the red cape, be at his most dangerous.

And like an aging, senile circus elephant that is no longer the crowd's favorite, and is just a burden on the rest of the show, he is going to wreck the place on his way out. When he goes down, he is going to take the place down with him.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 12, 2016 - 11:35am PT
I say, snip 'em at birth.

Solved.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 12, 2016 - 01:33pm PT
Awwww. Nita you do care. I'm flattered. Are we having a conversation yet?

Minimum wage is nothing more than a different form of welfare pushed to the private sector in an effort to hide it better than other outright wealth redistribution schemes.

Why not just go full Greece and mandate 13 monthly salary payments a year
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 12, 2016 - 01:40pm PT
Why not just go full Greece and mandate 13 monthly salary payments a year

Why not just go full Dixie and eliminate wages altogether. Sure, you've got to feed the slaves if you want any work out of them, but that's cheaper than all this "wages" bullsh#t.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 12, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
Missouri just declared us the "certified winner" of their primary! 12 more delegates added- as we work everyday- to secure the GOP nomination.
We are in it to WIN!
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

D.T.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 12, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
So, what are the polls saying will happen if the election were held now between
Donald Trump and either Hillary or Bernie?

how does Donald turn around such a massive landslide loss around before November, pyro?

maybe say some sentences like:

The Hispanics love me

Women love me

Blacks love me

The crippled and handicapped love me

Can you suggest some good tips for Donald, Pyro?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 12, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
Why not just go full Dixie and eliminate wages altogether. Sure, you've got to feed the slaves if you want any work out of them, but that's cheaper than all this "wages" bullsh#t.

Raising the minimum wage is neither welfare, a tax, nor a raise. It is a price floor, which either has no effect, or creates a surplus of labor and a shortage of jobs.

In California, our leaders have voted to eliminate minimum wage jobs, since they can't force someone to pay $15.00/hr. for $8.00/hr. worth of work.

Meanwhile, Trump's and Bernie's combination of isolationism and protectionism can eliminate not only minimum wage jobs, but lots of good ones, too, just like those policies did during the Great Depression. The level of economic ignorance demonstrated in both the Bernie and Donald campaigns should boggle the American mind, but, sad to say, H. L. Mencken's observation from almost a century ago still holds: no one [and certainly no politician] ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.

John
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 12, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
Can you guys believe the language Trump is using on our Hillary today? Wow.

Trump showcases for us the power of charisma even when it is an empty charisma. Tell your neighbor not to fall for it.


What we're seeing in these Trump spectacles is the specter of all those past leaders across the sweep of history
who gained power - not on great ideas but instead on empty charisma - only to drive their nations to ruin.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Apr 12, 2016 - 03:02pm PT
No wonder he's a billionaire. Whatever he's selling, there are plenty of pyros around who are buying it.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 12, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 12, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
Divad - I think Pyro is just trolling for reactionary responses. Problem was he didn't give any clues for 99% of the posts, so it seems like he's on board the #TrumpTrain.

Paul Ryan has officially stated he is NOT interested in the nomination, nor will he accept it.

Did Trump ever disclose his tax returns, as he promised that he would? So far, nope.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 12, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
What we're seeing in these Trump spectacles is the specter of all those past leaders across the sweep of history
who gained power - not on great ideas but instead on empty charisma - only to drive their nations to ruin.

It worked for Obama, why wouldn't Trump try it also?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 12, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
^^^^
so lame

just like Sketch, a post in quotes
a lame ass snide remark
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 12, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
Ha, why does that bother you CF? That is the absolute truth whether you like it or not. Trump is taking it straight from the Obama playbook and its working.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 12, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
You're truth doesn't look like mine
That is not Obama's playbook, you made that up

Lies bother me
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 12, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
Just curious Esco, but do you ever take in information, process it, compare it to other information and then perhaps modify your thinking and opinions in any way, as you repeatedly ask others to do? Or do you just simply spew the same old stuff by reflex?

Edit: Yeah I know, don't feed the Esco.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 12, 2016 - 04:22pm PT
Really, Escopeta (aka skunk trapper), you truly feel that way about Obama?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 12, 2016 - 04:32pm PT
If the country didn't elect Obama on empty charisma alone, how did he get elected? On his long list of personal achievements? Good grief, and you guys act like I'm the partisan here. I'm calling it like I see it.

What other playbook did he use, pray tell? Trump has figured out AMERICAN politics and he's never held a single elected post. not that it's all that difficult after all.

You guys are funny.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 12, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
Escopeta, ever watch Fareed Zakaria on Sundays? He's a pretty well rounded respected guy. This last week in opening remarks he had a few things to say about Obama spanning a few minutes. If you were to watch it, how could you not agree? You should take the time and watch it.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 12, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
Is he the one that pointed out to you that Trump is running on "empty charisma" or whatever it is you said?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 12, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
No the "empty charisma" assessment is mine.

Turns out, FZ, wrote similarly in Washington Post. Check it out...

Obama pursued transformation as Republicans chose self-destruction

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-transformational-president/2016/04/07/d722a7a4-fce9-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html

Anyways, the difference bet Obama and Trump are night and day.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 12, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
If you came up with the Trump assessment on your own, (which for the record I'm not disputing) why do you need someone else to help form your opinion of Obama?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 12, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
I said that, did I? Or I implied that, did I?

Funny, I don't recall.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 12, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
The question is....
what will the Trump supporters do when they are denied his nomination
after he has way higher numbers and polls

Pyro, maybe you can tell us what you will feel.

if you think that it will be the Bernie supporters rioting, you are an idiot

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 12, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
I said that, did I? Or I implied that, did I?

Funny, I don't recall.

No you didn't. I figured since you were sending me somewhere to listen to someone else that was how you got it.

I'm not interested in hearing what some pundit says, if you truly feel that way then great. i'd love to hear why it is you feel that way as long as it's your thoughts, not just parroting rote pundit-speak.

Btw, this week I'm not a skunk trapper, I'm a turkey killer (as I sit in fiesta Mexicana in Moab) merriam's turkeys or bust.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 12, 2016 - 10:01pm PT
Am I the last to see this?



Haven't times changed?

It is no longer the 19th or 20 centuries. Right?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/donald-trumps-kids-love-killing-animals#.ixk1ZdbEg

http://twitter.com/hashtag/TrumpFamily?src=tren


.....

"The #TrumpFamily town hall on CNN is going to win him a lot more voters."

I agree.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 13, 2016 - 06:20am PT
Am I the last to see this

Apparently.

We happened to turn on the hotel tv and the Trump family thing was on. I thought the same thing. He sat there and for the 5 minutes I watched it, I don't think he said a single word.

I was surprised and thought to myself, he is going to get a lot of votes with this little gem.

Still. Its not enough to beat Hillary, but it was good
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 13, 2016 - 06:56am PT
Forget about Donald Trump.

The psycho we need to worry about is Eric Trump.


Big Trump will lose the election, and just go away.


Little Eric Trump is the psychopath we need to worry about.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 13, 2016 - 07:43am PT
Pyro, maybe you can tell us what you will feel.



republican party will look really small if they deny the Donald..
id imagine riot would be happening but for me it'll be another day at work while some cookie cutter politician prances around the WH..

i want to see Washington listen to the people just like you F..
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 13, 2016 - 08:09am PT
One actually said that he believed DT was the type of person who, upon seeing a homeless man on the sidewalk, would give him a hundred dollar bill."



Apparently Drumpf is a philanthropist, gives away all sorts of money.
Well, sort of...

Astoundingly, it seems Drumpf is an even more despicable grifter and liar than we knew. A WaPo story found his "charitable giving" of $102 million consists entirely of free giveaways of his own gold-plated crap, mostly rounds of golf, and no money of his own - though he did give Serena Williams a $1,136.56 "donation" of a free plane ride and picture of herself. He also made money from "donating" a New York park and - sweet Jesus - from 9/11. In Donaldese, "What a loser! Sad!"

...

The WaPo investigation into an exhaustive list of Trump's charitable donations - 4,844 contributions filling 93 pages - found that not a single donation was of Trump's own money. Of the total 4,844 there were 2,900 free rounds of golf, 175 hotel stays, 165 meals, and 11 spa gift certificates, all at Trump-owned business and all of which he claimed tax credits for, even though they came from the Donald J. Trump Foundation, which got no money from the Donald himself and is funded by third-party donors.

I Was Hungry and You Gave Me A Free Round of Golf: Trump's Much-Vaunted Philanthropy Is A Profiteering Crock
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 13, 2016 - 08:13am PT
A WaPo

The modern penchant for this sickens me
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 13, 2016 - 08:25am PT
Nita, great insight into Escopeta...

"indeed. I figured it was high time SuperTopo received the gift of my opinion on a variety of topics both climbing and non-climbing related."
    Escopeta


Gag me with a spoon. Yeah, not feeling the Esco.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 13, 2016 - 08:30am PT
How many avatars has Escobaria been through so far?
20? 30?

Can't hold on
Must change, can't commit
what's cool today?
dirtbag

climber
Apr 13, 2016 - 08:37am PT
It's going to be Cruz.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/?nid=menu_nav_politics
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 13, 2016 - 08:55am PT
Trump has figured out AMERICAN politics

Uhhh...I don't believe so. If he had, he wouldn't have ignored the issue of Delegates until it was too late. I imagine that running for political office has a learning curve, and that is why most people start out trying for more localized offices(as Hillary Clinton did, with er NY state senator).

DT thought he could simply walk in and wing it, and he is being soundly thrashed by the political machine you think he has "figured out."

And to suggest he actually went in looking to gain the appeal of the YWB demographic(Young, White, Bigot) as an untapped source of votes??? Uh - too funny.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Apr 13, 2016 - 09:29am PT
She is just like her old man. When things don't go their way, they blame someone else.
Repubs like to blame people for the lack of personal responsibility, except when it comes to themselves.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-primaries/276110-ivanka-trump-blames-onerous-ny-rules-for-not-registering-to
Norton

Social climber
Apr 13, 2016 - 09:55am PT

Is that you with the sign, Pyro?

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 13, 2016 - 10:03am PT
That image gives me creepie crawlies. Where IS that outreached arm coming from behind the lady with the baby coming from? The woman in front of the man holding the sign is angled at a way that makes it impossible, and the arm, angling downward, cannot be coming from a person shorter and unseen.

The baby's skin pallor is off, the two sets of fingers on his or her hand are splayed so wide it would have to be a birth, and the lady holder her looks like she just won the grand prize on some old television game show from the early seventies.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 13, 2016 - 10:44am PT
republican party will look really small if they deny the Donald..

How is that, when approximately 63% of Republican voters thus far have voted against him? The simple fact remains that he's shown no guiding principles other than his alleged leadership. The current administration's greatest accomplishment has been expanding the power of the President to run our everyday lives without legislation. Why would Republicans want a repeat performance?

John
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 13, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
Forget about Donald Trump.

The psycho we need to worry about is Eric Trump

You better get with Craig Fry so he can update his "biggest threat" list.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 13, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
I covered it above with some version of:

Threat to a America, Right wingers with guns.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 13, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
Should probably work the phrase "blood lust" in there somewhere for effect.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 13, 2016 - 09:04pm PT
The current administration's greatest accomplishment has been expanding the power of the President to run our everyday lives without legislation.

Let's get real here. The powers of the executive have not expanded in any way under Obama compared to W's administration where they were really expanded. Obama is also still under W's count for executive orders at this point in their presidencies. And most of those wouldn't have been necessary had the gop been willing to govern at any point during Obama's presidency. And let's not forget who appointed Roberts and Alito who's primary credentials were their deep and abiding belief and support for an imperial executive.

So please, enough with that pathetic fringe-right meme.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 13, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
Looking "small" is the least of the Republican Party's problems.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 13, 2016 - 09:22pm PT
Escopeta...It appears Craig Fry calling a spade a spade is number 1 on your list of things to fear...?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 14, 2016 - 04:51am PT
Haha. I just want make sure Craig has the right boogeyman du jour identified. Craig Fry is harmless. As harmless as a militia tard taking over a bird sanctuary.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 14, 2016 - 05:11am PT
Escopeta...Craig is harmless ...It's the cati you have to watch out for ...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:15am PT
That picture of Eric Trump with an elephants tail will be a great ad for someone's Presidential campaign.

Just splash it around on the internet randomly, with the words

Trump's Son, Eric
dirtbag

climber
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:17am PT
I hope the dems are compiling a nice fat file on Cruz.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:23am PT
You WILLL vote for him in Nov, won't you?

Because, no way would you vote for either a black or woman Democrat for President


Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:24am PT
That picture of Eric Trump with an elephants tail will be a great ad for someone's Presidential campaign.
That would be cool. Then the Trump campaign could pull this gem out.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:28am PT
You just don't get it esco
completely hopeless, too brain damaged I guess

Lies and BS will never trump the truth

Your photo is a disgusting cartoon of something completely untrue
you should take it down so you won't embarrass yourself
(too late)

The photo of Eric is a real trophy shot
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:29am PT
I'd respond to that pic but I'd be in danger of contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
Teenagers these days.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:34am PT
serious question, Escopeta

how old are you?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:35am PT
Oh I get it. I just happen to love the process. All the silly attacks and "files". I think it's fun and you guys eat it up like pigs in slop.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:42am PT
You love being an antagonist
and a troll

exactly like our old friend Sketch
we finally tired him out after all these years

the a-hole stichk only goes so far

now he's pretty much ignored
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:53am PT
I keep forgetting how serious you take these things. Which makes your incessant partisanship even more hilarious.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:53am PT
You are all alone in your opinions esco

so don't bother projecting them on me

you have no idea of what I take seriously or not

I like to have a calm and rational debate, you call that too serious?
take a hike
dirtbag

climber
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:56am PT
Esco is mostly a one note guy, with a narrow, fundamentalistish worldview of politics.
If you've read a dozen of his posts you've basically read them all. At this point they are kind of meh, not even at the level of trolling.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 09:00am PT
TRUMP'S SON, ERIC

What do you think?

Does it make you want to vote for Trump?
dirtbag

climber
Apr 14, 2016 - 09:04am PT
He's a man's man.

It's kind of symbolic of what daddy trump is doing to the GOP.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 14, 2016 - 09:12am PT

Does it make you want to vote for Trump?

About as much as a picture of Chelsea Clinton would make me want to vote for Hillary.

Is the person that claims to be looking for rational political debate posting pictures of a candidates family as a basis for voting? Buhahaha
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 14, 2016 - 09:56am PT
So this morning I heard, on the radio, a short segment interviewing one of the GOP Delegates to Be. I forget his mane, but he said that in "Rule 37" it is indicated that Delegates do NOT have to honor the wishes of Primary/Caucus Voters and cast their vote for said candidate; that y may do as they please, voting their own conscience. Also that no, the delegates do NOT need to wait for a second round of votes in order to vote their own conscience.

After the interview, it was asked of another person(whose name I forget, but was introduced as having credentials which would seem to make him somewhat of an authority on the issue) if Rule 37 did indeed reflect that.

The man said "no, but in Rule 38, there is language which could be interpreted in that way."

I read the two rules (http://cdn.gop.com/docs/2012_RULES_Adopted.pdf); but haven't the skill/experience to form an opinion, but what I am thinking is that - if this is true, then the entire "voting is a sham" has just moved from theory to reality - that even the PRIMARIES/CAUCUS' are just a sham to have people believing they have some say when they truly do not.

I am wondering if/when the last time that a popular candidate in primaries/caucus' was rejected by the party. Has it ever occurred? If not, and the whole "primaries and caucus have no relation to the convention voting" gains some traction, this would/should be the match to the can of gas that ignites the revolt.

Here is the story on NPR which I am referring to:
http://www.npr.org/2016/04/14/474198693/gop-delegate-trump-primary-wins-absolutely-irrelevant-at-convention
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 14, 2016 - 10:18am PT
At least you recognize it as off topic. Why is he a piece of sh#t? Is it the pressed shirt on safari (a pet peeve of mine) or the fact that he shot the African equivalent of a trash panda?


Edit: now that I look closer, the shirt is sufficiently rumpled but that knife should be bloody if he did the messy work himself. Poseur.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 14, 2016 - 10:18am PT
Presidential elections are another example where the whole notion of 'states' is an anachronism from another time and out of step with the world we live in.

Electing a candidate shouldn't be a strung out and byzantine charade dominated by the few, it should be a national, over-in-a-day event reflecting the will of the people: one day, everyone votes winner is the nominee. If you want to keep states in the game then it then it's the same deal: one day, everyone votes, delegates are allocated based on the vote percent in each state. No super-delagates, no arcane rules, no ridiculous caucuses. Vote, vote in one day - done.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 14, 2016 - 10:21am PT
Yeah those messy states get in the way of the master plan all the time don't they? I hate that.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 14, 2016 - 10:30am PT
Electing a candidate shouldn't be a strung out and byzantine charade dominated by the few, it should be a national, over-in-a-day event reflecting the will of the people: one day, everyone votes winner is the nominee. If you want to keep states in it then it's the same deal: one day, everyone votes, delegates are allocated based on the vote percent in each state. No super-delagates, no arcane rules, no ridiculous caucuses. Vote, vote in one day - done.

I respectfully disagree, Joseph. The long, drawn-out process allows some candidates to expose their weaknesses that may not come out in the spur of the moment. If that were the rule, we'd see even more campaigns of glitter rather than substance. While the Trumpians don't let facts or actions dim their support of their hero, the length of the process has allowed the Donald to demonstrate his unsuitability to the undecided in a way that may not have been so clear at the start. I would also argue the the length of the process helped Obama overcome Clinton's large initial lead in 2008.

John
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 10:43am PT
Long or short

The election should be cast by the Federal Government sending out ballots to EVERYBODY Registered in the mail.
and you mail it back at your leisure

the counting should be conducted by certified Gov. machines

This One day to vote at a poll, use it or lose it is insane.

State's rights, what a crock of sh#t, it's just an excuse to screw people.

We have to change our voting system Now.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 10:52am PT
State's rights, what a crock of sh#t, it's just an excuse to screw people.

We have to change our voting system Now.

LOL

Yeah, we need to go straight to the utopia: The feds just tell us who to vote for, and, since we would all just comply anyway, the feds can count the votes without us even needing to go through any "process." That way we automatically get the correct "elected" officials with no personal hassles that might disrupt our safe spaces.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 11:08am PT
Extra long lines for voting are normal?

Wouldn't want to screw up the State's Leaders plan to keep people FROM voting. right?

States have the right to make voting near impossible for black, young or liberal, because they don't vote for the State's candidate.

Not like those Feds that tell you who to vote for?? WTF?



Ramifications nor reality just never seem to enter libertarians mind for some reason.
Why do States lose rights? because they impose policies that are Anti-American.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 11:11am PT
Here, let me fix that for you:

Reality just never seems to enter liberals' minds for some reason.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Apr 14, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
Is the person that claims to be looking for rational political debate posting pictures of a candidates family as a basis for voting? Buhahaha

I do like election discussions to focus on issues, the candidates' attitudes toward them, and in that process the candidates reveal their personalities and what type of leader they would be.

I can see an argument to leave a candidate's family out of it, but when a person is presenting himself or herself to be a leader of hundreds of millions of people, we have a reasonable expectation to see how they have handled their leadership position within their family. What are their family values as expressed by the type of children they raised?

I would have a lot more respect for a political leader that raised well-adjusted children into adulthood, rather than a political leader with emotionally stunted children. That is a far more telling attribute of a person's fitness to lead a nation with integrity. Many people don't care about integrity as much, so for them, knowing what sort of children a person raised is not as important.

A little more context for that picture would be helpful... did Trump Jr. just cut off the tail of a dead elephant he found? Or did he kill it and take the tail for a trophy? Did he just find it like that, pick it up and joke around with it? Is he disgusted by this whole thing and just trying desperately to earn daddy's love? Or piss him off to get attention? Too much we don't know to draw any reasonable conclusions.

But Trump the candidate doesn't need any family members to pull him down. His own loudly proclaimed attitudes and positions should be enough for that. Yes he is different from other Republican candidates, but people should learn the difference between "different" and "better." Although to be fair, it's hard to define a "better" in that race, according to what I personally value.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 14, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
Yeah, we need to go straight to the utopia: The feds just tell us who to vote for, and, since we would all just comply anyway, the feds can count the votes without us even needing to go through any "process." That way we automatically get the correct "elected" officials with no personal hassles that might disrupt our safe spaces.

Should we stick to the present plan? The corporations just tell us who to vote for, and, since we would all just comply anyway, the corporation can count the votes without us even needing to go through any "process." That way we automatically get the correct "elected" officials with no personal hassles that might disrupt our safe spaces.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
Should we stick to the present plan?

Oh no! Absolutely not!

We need to pass a 10,000+ page law that nobody's read, so that we can appear to be doing "something," ANYTHING, because "doing something" is much more important than thoughtfully thinking things through to arrive at a genuine plan. And "doing something," even if it's the wrong thing, gives us the ammunition to accuse the "other party" of "doing nothing," because "something" is always better than "nothing," so we DO need to do "something" immediately!

Always do something, anything, rather than "stick to the present plan," because "something" shows that you CARE! And doing "nothing" proves that you do NOT CARE!

Even if nobody can read/decipher the "something" you want to pass before you pass it.

So, yes, let's have another "reform" plan to "fix" what's broke. Please. Quickly.

Did I mention...? HURRY!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
Maybe he really cut off something else?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
The corporations just tell us who to vote for, and, since we would all just comply anyway

LOL... we're already THERE! It's both tragic and hilarious that you can write something like that without being dog-piled by your OWN intuitions screaming at you, "Hey, something's WRONG with this picture I've just painted!"

They put up Hillary, and you just get in line. Sure, she's utterly owned by the banks and corporations you SAY you despise. But, whatever.

Your scenario is already REALITY, not a "counterexample."
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 14, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
Let's be very clear, red states have never - even for a day - given up their efforts to suppress poor and minority voting. It's a simple matter of abuse of state powers.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
This is why I can't read MB's posts

Sure (Hillary), she's utterly owned by the banks and corporations you SAY you despise
MB

she is?
Prove it.
half of what you post is either a blatant lie, or just proves that you are very misinformed (which is the same as stupid)

Just overly biased opinions based on pure BS.

You're whole rant about elections was pathetic, do you have idea of what's going on out there if you are a minority in a red state?
How about a transgender person, or a Muslim?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
Prove it.

Anybody who can look at her top-20 contributor list and ask that question is brain-dead.

So, I assume you simply haven't looked. Right?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
do you have idea of what's going on out there?

Do you?

Prove it.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
A donor list does not equal = utterly owned by

sorry, no need to look at the list

and yes, I do know what's going on out there, that's why I question you, you seem to have no idea except what's happening to you and your selfish ideology

most of America is suffering from things imposed by the right wing states
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 02:38pm PT
sorry, no need to look at the list

Ah, yes, the ever-prescient but ignorant left. Reminds me of that Calvin and Hobbes line, "You're ignorant, but at least you act on it."

and yes, I do know what's going on out there

Apparently not. You don't even care to know who is paying the way for your candidate of choice. But, yes, ignorance is bliss.

you seem to have no idea except what's happening to you and your selfish ideology

Pot calling kettle. And I'M not the one advocating the institutionalized theft from tens of millions of hard-working, tax-paying (important point, that!) Americans!

most of America is suffering from things imposed by the right wing states

Care to list (and prove culpability) for the supposed massive suffering by line-item?
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Apr 14, 2016 - 02:39pm PT

DT thought he could simply walk in and wing it, and he is being soundly thrashed by the political machine you think he has "figured out."


I don't think that Trump thought he would get significantly further than he got last election cycle. So there was no down side to just winging it and there wasn't any reason for him to worry about the delegate process until he actually started winning and then it was pretty late to do much about it.

I still really doubt that Trump wants to be president. Win the presidency, sure. But besides being a disaster, I think he would also be miserable being president.

If Trump actually thought he was going to both win the nomination and have a real shot in the general election, then he should be working really hard to build a national election machine. He isn't.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 14, 2016 - 02:40pm PT
Most misused word in the English language: "owned".

Apply this simplistic verb to your person of choice and, voila, you've fooled yourself into thinking you've made a cogent point.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
And I'M not the one advocating the institutionalized theft from tens of millions of hard-working, tax-paying (important point, that!) Americans!

Institutionalized Theft??

Please, continue on your nonsensical rant
It makes all my points for me.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 02:55pm PT
It makes all my points for me.

LOL... nobody's making your "points" for you, because you don't have points to make. Thus, even you are not contributing toward "making" them.

Your posts remind me of the lib in this clip....

[Click to View YouTube Video]

No actual discussion possible.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 14, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
Well,

I for one do indeed want to see "proof" that Hillary Clinton has sponsored legislation that directly benefited a corporation that gave her and her only campaign finance money.

I say her only because large banks and corporations have been reporting record profits for years now and flush with cash give money to both political candidates and super pacs, often giving pretty equal amounts to both Democrats and Republicans.

But what we are talking about is - can we establish a direct trail between a candidate being given a large enough sum of money that results in that candidate having sponsored legislation in congress that benefits that donor.

So, damn it, I want to see the proof, I am curious, what legislation did Ted Cruz or Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton (when she was in the US Senate) sponsor?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
owned

Are you denying that Hillary is beholden (if you like that word better) to the banks and multi-national corps that are massively contributing to her campaign?

Aren't you guys the same one bagging on the Republicans for the SAME thing?

Oh, sorry. I'm slow, but I get it now.

The Republicans are inherently evil (so all of the "evidence" must be interpreted that way). So, when they take big PAC bucks, it's all nefarious and evil. But when your candidate of choice does the same thing, she REALLY has OUR best interest at heart.

Uhhhh... yeah. Righteo-then.

Carry on.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
I say her only because large banks and corporations have been reporting record profits for years now and flush with cash give money to both political candidates and super pacs, often giving pretty equal amounts to both Democrats and Republicans.

Oh.

I thought I understood before, but NOW I do understand.

So, there really is NO problem with PACS and big-money in politics. No need of campaign finance reform at all, because there's no evidence of SPONSORED legislation that benefits the big banks and corporations.

Or, we could turn the burden of proof and ask THIS question:

WHERE was Hillary (the senator) calling for indictments and heads on pikes when Wall Street and big banks ruined our economy and successfully extorted from US the biggest transference of wealth in human history?

Don't "answer" by asking where the Republicans were. We all KNOW that they are owned by the big banks and multi-national corporations.

The point is that you have EXACTLY the same evidence regarding Hillary, but she gets a pass.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
How to make a conservative lose their sh#t?

ask them to show you some proof

All your long winded rants make every point we need

Just let the ideological zealot spew his crap, and all will see that this guy is a wacko indeed

The Major difference in parties is how the leaders vote

Republicans vote for moneyed interests
Democrats vote for people's interests

You can check the voting records and see who is a Repub and who is Dem just by looking at what the vote is about.

You can give some Dems a billion dollars, and they still won't vote for your interest if it's against the people's interest

Every Repub will vote for the money they were given as a bribe
some will vote for chump change, some will demand a lot more.




TOP RECIPIENTS OF DIRECT DONATIONS FROM GUN RIGHTS GROUPS SINCE 2000

Rank Candidate Money No. of Races

1 John Thune, R-S.D. $137,755 3
2 Dean Heller, R-Nev. $85,215 4 (3 House, 1 Senate)
3 Pat Toomey, R-Pa. $83,169 4 (2 House, 2 Senate)
4 Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga. $79,950 2
5 Roy Blunt, R-Mo. $77,935 6 (5 House, 1 Senate)
6 Ted Cruz, R-Texas $69,279 1
7 Richard Burr, R-N.C. $67,300 4 (2 House, 2 Senate)
8 David Vitter, R-La. $64,561 2
9 Marco Rubio, R-Fla. $59,439 1
10 Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. $55,800 2



Good ole Mitchy will do the NRA's dirty work for only $55,800

That's quite a pretty good deal for the NRA, don't ya think
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
ask them to show you some proof

Pot calling kettle.

Democrats vote for people's interests

Prove it.

Give me a list of the last five items voted solely by Democrats that are in the people's interest and OPPOSED by mega-corps.

Oh, oh... let me help! OBAMACARE! Right? Did I get one right?

ROFL! I mean ROLL on floor, DYING laughing! Yup, those good, ol' Democrats, providing NO actual "reform" but instead just handing us to the INSURANCE COMPANIES on a silver platter. Yup... jes doin' "something," anything, to LOOK like you're "for the people," as you comply with the LOBBY from the insurance companies that stumped the hardest to get a GUARANTEED market with a federal safety net.

WHO won that one? "The people" or the insurance companies? Let's see if you're HONEST enough to admit how we now KNOW that turned out.

Oh, sorry. At least the Democrats "tried." They "tried" to be "for the people," but those bad, bad corporations won anyway. But at least they "tried."

LOL
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 14, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
What legislation, specifically, did Hillary Clinton introduce in the Senate that proves she's "owned" by anyone?

So easy for armchair pundits living in the rarified air of high moral authority to trash a hard working person with conspiracy theories and hyperbole.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 14, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
Norton writes:

"I for one do indeed want to see "proof" that Hillary Clinton has sponsored legislation that directly benefited a corporation that gave her and her only campaign finance money."





That's the advantage of keeping your own server at home. You can dodge The Freedom Of Information Act.

It has nothing to do with "Benghazi".
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
Your massive back-edits are a waste of time, CF, for one simple reason.

You can bag on the Republicans all you like, and I'll happily AGREE with you! Trot out any list of Republican evils you like, and if they are remotely credible, I'll agree. I'm no Republican and think that they are rotten.

YOUR problem is that you honestly (ignorantly) believe that the Democrats are better! LOL

What it takes to ACTUALLY reform this country is to get a clue about BASIC game theory.

See, as long as you Democrats are as rabid about the Republicans as the Republicans are about you Democrats, there can ONLY be mutually-assured, and escalating destruction, evidenced by the HORRIFIC front-runners in BOTH parties!

ONLY when a huge proportion of voters in BOTH parties recognize that BOTH parties are not serving OUR interests can any real "change" take place. ONLY when a huge proportion of voters AGREE that they will not vote for EITHER major-party candidate will we see and (very quick) transformation.

But, enter the game theory. As long as the voters "of" either party distrust the others, they will vote for "their" candidate (horrible as that option is) to KEEP the "other" candidate from winning. So, we see it played out in spades this election. Voters are planning to vote AGAINST the "other" candidate en mass.

Wake up and smell the epic SCAM!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
Too many caps for me
Lost interest
please try back again
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
What legislation, specifically, did Hillary Clinton introduce in the Senate that proves she's "owned" by anyone?

I've said that this is the wrong question to ask. The correct question to ask is: What legislation would any senator who actually cared about US introduce to PENALIZE the architects of the 2008 crisis, and WHY wasn't Hillary at the forefront of such legislation?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
Lost interest

Totally understandable.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 03:39pm PT
Let me ask the question in a different way.

If you were the President immediately following Bush and his cronies destroying our economy in 2008, what would you have instructed your Justice Department to do?

Now, let's say that you're a Democrat senator at that time. You have the majority of both houses of Congress. What legislation would you have introduced to both penalize the architects of that crisis and ENSURE that it could never happen again? What legislation would you have introduced to bring the architects to justice while breaking up and regulating the big banks and mega-corps?

WHY wasn't such accountability and legislation the #1 PRIORITY of the Democrat president and Congress during those years? I mean, given that Bush was such an epic failure in this regard (as you often remind us), WHY didn't Obama and his Democrat Congress make it right, and where was Hillary leading the charge?

Whatever you believe (and say) about the Republicans being in the pockets of the big banks and mega-corps, the evidence of omission says the same thing about the Democrats, and they had the perfect chance to make it right!

Again, it's OFTEN not what you do that tells the real story but what you don't do when you could have (and by all accounts should have)!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 05:53pm PT
Now they have gone too far!!
Attacking Bill Nye the Science Guy???!!!!11


Sarah Palin Doesn’t Think Bill Nye Is A Real Scientist

“Bill Nye is as much as scientist as I am.”

 04/14/2016 07:57 pm ET

Former Alaska governor and 2008 Republican vice presidential hopeful Sarah Palin argued Thursday that Bill Nye is not actually a scientist.

“Bill Nye is as much as scientist as I am,” Palin said at an event in Washington, D.C., according to The Hill. “He’s a kids’ show actor; he’s not a scientist.”

Palin specifically targeted Nye for his statements on global warming, saying he and others who tout the science that says humans are contributing to changes in the Earth’s climate are fueling “alarmism.”

Palin’s criticism came after a showing of a new anti-climate change documentary called “Climate Hustle,” which features a clip of producer Marc Morano interviewing Nye, who regularly speaks out about the negative effects of global warming.

“We’ve been told by fearmongers that global warming is due to man’s activities, and this [film] presents strong arguments against that in a very relatable way,” Palin told Variety in an interview published Monday.

Palin has a long history of denying that humans contribute to climate change.

Before he was known as “The Science Guy,” Nye worked as an engineer — a job firmly rooted in science — at Boeing. He studied mechanical engineering at Cornell University, earning a bachelor’s degree in 1977. In addition to his show, Nye has written several children’s books about science.

During his involvement in the entertainment industry, Nye has also kept up his work in the fields of science and education. He helped design sundials for NASA’s Mars Exploration Rover project, and was a visiting professor at Cornell for several years.


who's next?
The Crocodile Hunter?
The crippled guy?

all you need to do is disagree with Palin and you are her list..

and it is political only because they have made the denial of science political.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 14, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
"What legislation, specifically, did Hillary Clinton introduce in the Senate that proves she's "owned" by anyone?"



Trick question.

Clinton didn't introduce any legislation during her Senate term.

Opportunity squandered.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 14, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
In 2009 the US and world economy was on the verge of collapse. Uncharted water. Obama was faced with a financial crisis not seen in 80 years. He was successful. We avoided the cliff.

Was it a mistake to allow big banks to pay bonuses with bailout $? Of course. Mistakes were made. Crooks got off. It was a complex scam with plenty of holes for the rats to crawl through.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 14, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
Crankster writes:

"Obama was faced with a financial crisis not seen in 80 years."




Measured how?

How are you sure that was the worst?

I'm curious, because I remember those weird years between the 70s and the 80s.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
Crooks got off. It was a complex scam with plenty of holes for the rats to crawl through.

Pure BS. You REALLY believe that this is an "answer"???

No, face the FACT for what it truly is: The Democrats in complete power for two years immediately following the crisis did NOTHING to pursue the biggest heist ever perpetrated.

I repeat: NOTHING.

At all.

Not even a TRY. Not even an investigation.

NOTHING.

If that's good by you, then ya just keep drinkin' that kool-aid. For my part, I hold the Democrats just as responsible as the Republicans.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 14, 2016 - 07:33pm PT

Cruz Backs North Carolina Bathroom Law

U.S. Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz speaks at a campaign event in Erie, Pennsylvania April 13, 2016.
Carlo Allegri/Reuters

Ted Cruz expressed his full support for North Carolina's controversial law restricting bathroom access for the transgender community and prohibiting local anti-discrimination ordinances.
“Men should not be going to the bathroom with little girls,” the GOP presidential candidate said.
“That is a perfectly reasonable determination for the people to make.”
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 14, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
"NOTHING".

I've read about a dozen books on the subject, numerous documentaries going back to Frontline's, "The Warning" etc. You are vastly oversimplifing this subject.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 14, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
You are vastly oversimplifing this subject.

he is doing the best he can with what the lord gave him to work with, give him a break
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 14, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
You are vastly oversimplifing this subject.

You are vastly oversimplifying your punt of an answer.

Please list the legislation, investigations, or even hearings that the DEMOCRATS initiated to track down and hold accountable the well-known perpetrators of the crisis.

We sure aren't going to find ALL the "rats." But many, many of them are well-known, and they were not touched!

How is that?

Explain. Don't punt.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 14, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
Chaz posted

Measured how?

How are you sure that was the worst?

I'm curious, because I remember those weird years between the 70s and the 80s.


Pick one. Christ, Chaz.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 15, 2016 - 04:09am PT
A fundamental difference I'm noticing between Madbolter and Craig Fry.....

MB1 posts his own thoughts.

Craig Fry posts articles he's copied from somewhere else.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 15, 2016 - 06:14am PT
Re: the financial crisis...you can't repair the sails in a storm, you have to keep from sinking, get the boat to shore and try to make sense of the wreckage.

Forgive the cut & paste - but here's some responses:

President Barack Obama and key advisers introduced a series of regulatory proposals in June 2009. The proposals address consumer protection, executive pay, bank financial cushions or capital requirements, expanded regulation of the shadow banking system and derivatives, and enhanced authority for the Federal Reserve to safely wind-down systemically important institutions, among others. In January 2010, Obama proposed additional regulations limiting the ability of banks to engage in proprietary trading. The proposals were dubbed "The Volcker Rule", in recognition of Paul Volcker, who has publicly argued for the proposed changes.

On July 21, 2010 – the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act was enacted.

Again, it's easy to Monday-morning quarterback the President's response to the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression. Nobody can know what would have happened if the banks hadn't been bailed out. What would going over the cliff have meant? You don;t know, nor do I.

I suspect your life is a good one. As is mine. That's meaningful, right?

dirtbag

climber
Apr 15, 2016 - 09:57am PT
Yeah, that whole buffoonery thing could be an issue.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 15, 2016 - 09:58am PT
America IS great, and has been great for a very long time
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 15, 2016 - 09:59am PT
Is Klimmer the guy you see dragging the wooden cross up the hill toward Tahquitz from Palm Desert?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Apr 15, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
Glad to see that ted is protecting our public morals.
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/apr/15/ted-cruz-defended-ban-on-the-sale-of-sex-toys-in-t/
dirtbag

climber
Apr 15, 2016 - 03:37pm PT
Like Donald trump is a motherf*#king truthsayer.

If honesty is important to you Klimmer, you should not be voting for trump.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 15, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
Klimmer has gone to the dark side

Benghazi???

Newsmax and the NY Post
Give me a break

The guy that launched the terrorist attack against the outpost said he did it after seeing the revolt brought on by the FILM

IT WAS THE FILM that triggered the terrorist attack!

So your BS truthers know more than the guys doing the terrorism eh?
morons

you still got those e-mails, I bet they make you hot!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 15, 2016 - 04:03pm PT
I would love to see Trump win the nomination....I'll do cartwheels of joy and break out some good champaign. Then I'll sit back at my leisure and watch the carnage engulf the repugnant party....bring it on!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 15, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
Benghazi. That was the biggest hoax of 2015. You're going to have to come up with another one for 2016. Go for Whitewater. There must have been something Ken Starr missed.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 15, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack

Captured suspect Ahmed Abu Khattala stated that the assault was indeed in retaliation for the video Innocence of Muslims.[25]
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 16, 2016 - 07:38am PT
Klimmer, is Trump really the best candidate God could come up with? Really? She must be losing her touch.
F

climber
away from the ground
Apr 16, 2016 - 08:59am PT
Only Trump can save us from more BENGHAZI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey buddy.... Wanna buy an Ark? I'll give you a great deal...
Wait, where are you going? Don't leave! What are you an anti Semite? Don't you love 'Merica?
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 16, 2016 - 09:08am PT
Trump has the moral high ground?

Oy vey.

One of the biggest shysters the world has very seen.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 16, 2016 - 09:14am PT
Thanks Dingus for adding the color commentary to this otherwise colorless thread.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Apr 16, 2016 - 09:19am PT
No, face the FACT for what it truly is: The Democrats in complete power for two years immediately following the crisis did NOTHING to pursue the biggest heist ever perpetrated.


I'm not sure about the biggest heist ever. Heck, it was only $700-800B.

Don't forget the famous Rumsfeld rum-run:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Apr 16, 2016 - 09:36am PT
The Democrats in complete power for two years immediately following the crisis did NOTHING to pursue the biggest heist ever perpetrated.

you are a liar

name the dates, from when to when, that the Democrats had 60 votes in the Senate to overcome Republican filibusters

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 16, 2016 - 09:56am PT
If Trump gets elected, I'm leaving the country!

have fun in some other country you spoiled American..see ya later
TLP

climber
Apr 16, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
...the Hollywood movie that told the truth of what really happened...

HAHAHAHAHAHA! That is a hilarious sequence of words.
kattz

climber
Apr 16, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
Bill Nye is NOT a scientist.

Please don't call that creature a "scientist".

Research publications, please? Nowhere to be found.
He got a mechanical engineering degree...a Bachelor's Degree only.

Oh, he got:

Nye holds several United States patents,[38] including one for ballet pointe shoes[39][32] and another for an educational magnifying glass created by filling a clear plastic bag with water

and a college kid-level project (look it up):
a kind of small sundial which was included in the missions of the Mars Exploration Rover. It was called the MarsDial and hit had small panels of different colors which made color calibration as well as timekeeping possible

yeah...surely "a scientist". Just another attention whore hollywood Kardashian-wannabe type.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 16, 2016 - 04:01pm PT
He studied mechanical engineering at Cornell University (where he took an astronomy class taught by Carl Sagan)[9] and graduated with a B.S. in mechanical engineering in 1977.[10] Nye occasionally returns to Cornell as a guest-lecturer of introductory-level astronomy and human ecology classes.[11]

Nye began his career in Seattle at Boeing, where, among other things, he starred in training films and developed a hydraulic pressure resonance suppressor for the 747. Later, he worked as a consultant in the aeronautics industry.

Nye hosted 100 Greatest Discoveries, an award-winning series produced by THINKFilm for The Science Channel and in high definition on the Discovery HD


In the early 2000s, Nye assisted in the development of a small sundial that was included in the Mars Exploration Rover missions.[2] Known as MarsDial, it included small colored panels to provide a basis for color calibration in addition to helping keep track of time.[31] From 2005 to 2010, Nye was the vice president of The Planetary Society, an organization that advocates space science research and the exploration of other planets, particularly Mars.[32] He became the organization's second Executive Director in September 2010 when Louis Friedman stepped down.[33][34]

From 2001 to 2006, Nye served as Frank H. T. Rhodes Class of '56 University Professor at Cornell University.[10][42

In May 1999, Nye was the commencement speaker at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute where he was awarded an honorary doctor of science degree.[67] He was awarded an honorary doctorate by Johns Hopkins University in May 2008.[68] In May 2011, Nye received an honorary doctor of science degree from Willamette University[69] In May 2015, Rutgers University awarded him an honorary doctor of science degree and paid him a $35,000 speaker's fee for his participation as the keynote speaker at the ceremony.[70][71] In addition, Bill Nye also received an honorary doctor of pedagogy degree from Lehigh University on May 20, 2013, at the commencement ceremony.[72] Nye received the 2010 Humanist of the Year Award from the American Humanist Association.[73] In October 2015, Nye was awarded with an honorary doctorate of science from Simon Fraser University.[74]
wiki
kattz

climber
Apr 16, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
That ridiculous list does NOT make anyone a scientist and is laughable.

Pity America if people think these "credentials" makes someone a scientist....Oh boy. He does not have a Ph.D or any real list of published works/research.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 16, 2016 - 08:57pm PT
^^^^^
That's interesting, because I spent the day hunting on what remains of one of the largest private ranches in the state of New Mexico enjoying the bountiful wildlife and I had a similar thought. Although I suspect we came to different conclusions.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 16, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
Escopeta...You came to a different conclusion..? How unusual..? Where were you hunting..? rj
dirtbag

climber
Apr 17, 2016 - 06:26am PT
Plus, Alex jones loves the guy.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 17, 2016 - 07:42am PT
It's the dark side

It sucks you in when you become weak in the mind and unable to discern fact from fiction
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Apr 17, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
http://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/donald-trump-chance-regain-momentum-123151519.html
only Coz a Cox, is in the wheel house now
Norton

Social climber
Apr 17, 2016 - 01:18pm PT
I spent the day hunting on what remains of one of the largest private ranches in the state of New Mexico enjoying the bountiful wildlife

Cool, I have some friends who like being outdoors and killing animals at the same time too!
dirtbag

climber
Apr 17, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
You knew Scalia?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 18, 2016 - 08:22am PT
What kind of country treats illegal immigrants better then their Veterans? I will straight this out immediately!

D.T.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 18, 2016 - 11:21am PT
dirtbag

climber
Apr 18, 2016 - 11:22am PT
Dream on. Historically huge majorities of people do not like your man:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/04/18/hillary-clinton-is-totally-beatable-in-a-general-election-just-not-by-donald-trump-or-ted-cruz/
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 18, 2016 - 11:40am PT
85% of people under the age of 40 have negative views of Trump. Pretty amazing.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 18, 2016 - 04:09pm PT
Bernie supporters who would then vote Trump, well, that's just a silly decision. Likely rooted in sexism.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 18, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
Trump is a total loser. Anyone with half a functioning brain can see that. The younger generation isn't blinded by greed as much as some of the old guard.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 18, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
The young aren't quite as obsessed with their plantation mentality either...


But Klimmer says The Hair has already been anointed by GOD himself, so why bother with an election?

GOD likes to troll.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 18, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
She was talking about her plans for the Ark on the Moon, obviously.
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Apr 18, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
Kimmler I am a Christian like you. I talked to God and he told me to tell you to vote for Bernie. If you do not you will burn in hell forever. So please be a good Christian. Feel the Bern.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 18, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
Based on His sayings, would Jesus vote for Trump or Sanders?
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 18, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
Klimmer, here are some quotes from Jesus. Whose campaign platform runs closest to these remarks, Sanders or Trump, in your opinion?

Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied. “Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh. “Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man! Rejoice in that day, and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven; for so their fathers did to the prophets. “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation. ...

And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 18, 2016 - 11:03pm PT

Are the Jews truly historic Christ Killers ?

WTW what the what??
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 19, 2016 - 06:50am PT
kimmler was pretty funny

as is him knowing his 'meat'percentage

vvvvvvv it's what's for dinner...nttiawwt
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 19, 2016 - 07:05am PT
Klimmer, thanks for the reply, but you did not answer the question as to whose campaign platform runs closer to the words of Jesus. Not that I blame you for that, it's obvious your man Trump is not the answer.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 19, 2016 - 10:07am PT
The wealthy are commanded to take care of others ...


Apparently, you have no reality-based experience in the ways of wealthy people. Your belief system seems to be propaganda from people who exploit you.



Wealthy people might noisily dribble a little down to the lesser people, but mostly they exult in boosting their own egos with extravagant and ostentatious displays of how much more they have, compared to others.


The rich are bad.

The children of the rich are even worse.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 19, 2016 - 10:25am PT
$300k per year is peanuts.

And, not even $1M per year is even close to Player Level.


REAL money. The type of money that can buy elections.

EVIL money. The type of money that eclipses morality.



Looking at $300k per year is missing the big picture, literally.

The oligarchs operate at 100+ times that much income.



They'll buy a $50 million dollar penthouse in Manhattan, unseen and unvisited, that has $25,000 in monthly door-man fees. They'll never go there. The penthouse is used to launder their dirty money, either from drugs, or from government corruption. NYC real estate brokers are whores, and will eagerly accept a suitcase full of cash, no questions asked.

The dirty money boosts the local economy.

Whore-boy buys a fifty year-old bottle of Scotch twice a week. And the street walkers who fellate him look sharp in their new stockings.



Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 19, 2016 - 10:50am PT
DMT...I would say the one to five percent. Mostly the one percent, they have the resources and have no problem to use them to alter perception/elections.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 19, 2016 - 10:51am PT
$300k 100 X

$30M, per year. There's a number.


It's a bit low, in the present context, but at least it's a number.





survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 19, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
G'damn, we really are peasants....

But GOD loves The Hair, I don't get it.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 19, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
Today I did a bit of bouldering At one point I was reflecting on the tragedy of the commons, as one often does when a resource for the public good gets hijacked but those who simply don't share the values of those that created it.

That's a rather different take on the tragedy of the commons. That "tragedy" comes about because no one can exclude anyone else's participation in a costly asset. That provides an incentive to overuse it, and a disincentive to conserve it.

Gary, I'd be happy to answer your question about, so to speak "For whom would Jesus vote - Sanders or Trump?" Based on biblical evidence, he would vote for neither of them. He steadfastly refused to get involved in political controversy. He would not vote for Trump, since Trump stated that he has done nothing for which to ask forgiveness. Sounds rather like the Pharisees. He would not vote for Sanders, because his programs involve telling other people what they need to do, but doing nothing to pay for it himself or by his followers. Also sounds rather like the Pharisees.

He would, however, say that regardless of who's in power, you need to pay your taxes and give them the respect their office deserves, or expect to suffer the consequences. The idea that one can disobey civil authority and avoid punishment has no biblical basis.

John
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 19, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
He would not vote for Sanders, because his programs involve telling other people what they need to do, but doing nothing to pay for it himself or by his followers.

I dunno, John. Jesus was big on telling people what to do. That's the whole purpose of being a god, no?
Norton

Social climber
Apr 19, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
That's funny Gary!

And making sure you are worshiped is huuuge
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 19, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
I'm with Tom, it's the really rich that are concerning. And a danger of being oligarchs.


The "occupy" focus on the 1% is off. Plenty of 1% people are doctors, lawyers, etc. living in expensive places. It's about $400-500K to be a 1%er. But living in Manhattan or Silicon valley in a multimillion dollar 3 bedroom house, isn't the same as the really rich.

0.01% or 1 out of 10,000 people have 10% of the wealth.
That's 30,000 people in the US. with 8.5 trillions dollars. Or average 283 million each.

Edit to add: the concern that 50% of the country has no wealth is also a distraction. A lot of people of all incomes don't save at all. That's a big part of why 50% of the country has no wealth.
And
I don't blame people or think they are bad to have accumulated all that wealth, especially if they didn't just inherit it. I'm mostly concerned about that money/power in so few hands and I think the economy overall would do better it that wealth was more evenly distributed. But philosophically I have a problem with redistribution. Mainly I think those 0.1% and 0.01% ers should be paying more taxes to help with infrastructure, education, defense, etc. since they are disproportionately getting the economic benefits of that public spending.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 19, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
And making sure you are worshiped is yuuuge

Norton, FTFY.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 19, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
Quiet, Klim, the next President is giving her victory speech.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 19, 2016 - 09:58pm PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 20, 2016 - 05:34am PT
If you are into Trump then you either have no bullshit detector or are so bigoted that you just don't care. It's telling that the guy who gloms on to every conspiracy theory ever is such an enthusiastic Trump supporter.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Apr 20, 2016 - 06:10am PT
Today I pheasant under glass today I 'moke up
Today I feel the BERN, see you in the funny papers if they don't burn
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 20, 2016 - 08:07am PT
If you are into Trump then you either have no bullshit detector or are so bigoted that you just don't care. It's telling that the guy who gloms on to every conspiracy theory ever is such an enthusiastic Trump supporter.

shut up HighDesertDJ!



[Click to View YouTube Video]
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 20, 2016 - 08:16am PT
Wow you found a guy who is protesting and doesn't know why I guess that destroys all empiric evidence of Trump's cartoonish racism such as one of his first jobs segregating his father's real estate. There's no way I can keep providing examples of Trump's or his supporters' bigotry all day so I guess you win. DAMN YOU, ONE UNINFORMED PROTESTER!!!
dirtbag

climber
Apr 20, 2016 - 08:28am PT
, 2016 - 08:03am PT
A friend of mine posted this:


The funny thing is that his plane hasn't been registered since January 31.

But remember, he will put smart, competent people in charge.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 20, 2016 - 10:26am PT
Indeed. Pretty amazing that Trump's whole shtick is that he's so smart and so effective that he will take office despite being totally unprepared to be President, learn everything super fast and then become a cyborg president power wielding laser of doom. Meanwhile, he is so completely unprepared to run for President that Ted Cruz is scooping up delegates left and right because he's actually taken the time to learn the rules and hire the staff necessary to win. Even more amazing is that it's not going to make any difference and Trump will win anyway because he said "f*#k Mexicans" and "f*#k Muslims" over and over again.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Apr 20, 2016 - 10:48am PT

Curt
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 20, 2016 - 10:53am PT
To pile on, Curt, "No one went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people"

H. L. Mencken

"A sucker is born every minute"

P. T. Barnum


Churchill's quote, and the two above, seem particularly apt for the election of the United States President in 2016.

John
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Apr 20, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
Churchill's quote, and the two above, seem particularly apt for the election of the United States President in 2016.

John

We do agree from time to time. Along those lines, I think we should scrap the current primary system altogether and go back to party bosses picking their candidates in smoke filled rooms. Why? For the simple reason that we seemed to get better candidates that way.

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Apr 20, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
shut up HighDesertDJ!

Pyro, I have to ask, how old are you?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 20, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
Where are all the Cruz's supporters?

He will have the 2nd highest vote and delegate count.
Someone must like him.
Supposedly Cruz is the good Christian candidate, he will bring all Christian's hopes to fruition.

Are Cruz supporters even more idiotic than Trump supporters?
Our biggest Christians here are Trumpsters!

what does that tell you
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Apr 20, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
DMT- Looks like your buddy got trumped by Air Farce One!
dirtbag

climber
Apr 20, 2016 - 03:20pm PT
Jody liked Cruz, and even had a "Ready for Cruz?" thread for awhile.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Apr 20, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
[youtube=https://youtu.be/k8TwRmX6zs4]

I have to watch this every now and then...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 20, 2016 - 03:32pm PT
The "Ready for Cruz" thread has been frozen by admin.

I tried to post to it when Cruz was coming up the ranks a couple months ago
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Apr 20, 2016 - 04:10pm PT
The "media" seems to have assigned the colour of dark red, to Trump.
So last night, after he won, the ESB, was bathed in deep red.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 20, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
Go Donald go! He's definitely the one we want to run against.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 21, 2016 - 06:28am PT
If you don't listen to Slate's Trumpcast yet you need to start. The Second City skit that started yesterday's episode was amaaaaaazing: http://player.fm/series/slate-magazine-daily-podcast/trumpcast-the-pivot
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 21, 2016 - 06:52am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

This is for THEhidesertdjkid!
dirtbag

climber
Apr 21, 2016 - 09:04am PT
Trump: putting Tubman on the $20 bill is "pure political correctness;" Andrew Jackson was a "tremendous success."

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11477600/donald-trump-harriet-tubman-andrew-jackson-political-correctness
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 21, 2016 - 09:41am PT
^ And Ben Carson said he "loved what Harriet Tubbmann did," but suggested "maybe a two-dollar bill."

I am THRILLED that all the jack-assed, women-fearing, bigots and self-apologists are going to eventually be forced to use the new bills. I can just imagine the rednecks who are going to try to maintain a stash of "Jackson's" just because this is the level of what is important in their little worlds.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 21, 2016 - 09:47am PT
Jackson was extremely effective at committing genocide.

Pyro- Thanks, dude. Always good to know where you're getting your dogma from.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 21, 2016 - 10:04am PT
The FBI just found two more tunnels at the Mexican border. One of them had an elevator, tracks and had been used to smuggle 2 tons of cocaine and 14 tons of marijuana, which were seized in San Diego County.


So much for Trump and his stupid wall.

He never seems to mention the tunnels that are continually being found, except to say, "Don't worry about any tunnels. My wall will be the best, ever. Believe me."

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 21, 2016 - 10:13am PT
I am THRILLED that all the jack-assed, women-fearing, bigots and self-apologists are going to eventually be forced to use the new bills. I can just imagine the rednecks who are going to try to maintain a stash of "Jackson's" just because this is the level of what is important in their little worlds.


Plus 10!!



Trump and Carson are Butt Nugget Dingleberries.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 21, 2016 - 10:15am PT
^ And Ben Carson said he "loved what Harriet Tubbmann did," but suggested "maybe a two-dollar bill."

Placing her image on an arcade token would be more respectful than a $2 bill.

Norton

Social climber
Apr 21, 2016 - 10:22am PT
Carson's medical associates did not think much of him, Google it...
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 21, 2016 - 11:06am PT
Ben Carson is a f*#king idiot.


He was on the Daily Show on Tuesday night.

Trevor Noah mocked him, pretending to be his separated-at-birth twin brother. Carson was oblivious to being ridiculed on national television.


Trevor Noah becomes Ben Carson’s ‘evil twin’ — and mocks him to his face


The link has the video embedded. I couldn't find it on Youtube.




Why does the media continue to report what he says?


Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 21, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
Donald Trump has ALSO suggested the two-dollar bill for Tubman. He also "loves her."

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 21, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
Man, I just don't get why women and blacks aren't taking to the Republican party.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 21, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
May I suggest Trump for the $3 bill?
dirtbag

climber
Apr 21, 2016 - 03:02pm PT
^^^Or the peso?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 21, 2016 - 10:34pm PT
There will be a counterfeit trillion-peso note with Trump's scowling face on it.






Esta dinero para la construcción del muro y barrera


El Primo Puto Grossero
Señor Pinchoto Trump


Uno Billón Pesos
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 22, 2016 - 08:46am PT
I hope they nominate Cruz. There's a reason he's the most despised member of the Senate. He just gives off an evil vibe, even to members of his own party. Hillary beats Trump easily, but destroys Cruz.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 22, 2016 - 09:03am PT
Man, I just don't get why women and blacks aren't taking to the Republican party.

or Hispanics, or Asians, or crippled handicapped, or Muslims


but he is really strong with the white high school male graduates so he'll go far
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 22, 2016 - 09:03am PT
Al Franken said Cruz is what you get when you cross dracula and Joe McCarthy...ha..
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 22, 2016 - 09:27am PT
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 22, 2016 - 09:39am PT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 22, 2016 - 09:40am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 22, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
Breaking News!!!
Trump vows to act more Presidential, sometime soon!

Will acting more presidential be an act?
Or is acting like a buffoon an act??

what will Pyro think of the New PC Trump??
will he dump him and go for Cruz who is his still acting less Presidential?

http://www.cbsnews.com/live/video/trump-campaign-vows-trump-will-act-more-presidential/


my opinion, The Donald isn't very smart, it's all bluster.
and people that aren't very smart like others that aren't very smart, they can relate at a level of the lowest common denominator
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 22, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
The look on the surfer dude's face kills me

dirtbag

climber
Apr 22, 2016 - 03:20pm PT
Yawn...another right winger screeches that Hillary is a criminal.


Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 22, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
Now does he?

This breaking news is "old news," FYI. The exact same story was posted something like a month ago, and I'm pretty sure even that wasn't the first time

1) He "believes" i quite an empty statement. He maybe believes in the Easter Bunny, too. Or that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. A "belief" is not a fact.

2) It has been noted by more factual reporting sources that it would be unethical, and illegal, for an agent from the FBI to provide an outsider with information that the news story is leading you to believe. There's that pesky word, believe, again....

Ask yourself - how is it that a news consultant would have insider information an a pending investigation, and be blabbing it all over the place. I'm sure you are a very nice person, Klimmer, but you're naive and uninformed in the arena of politics.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Apr 22, 2016 - 04:08pm PT
This, tack back to center after gargling white dudes nuts during the primaries, is so rediculous!

RNC- If you want more electable candidates, schedule your primaries on WWE Smack Down days.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 22, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
Breaking News!!

Trump says F the f-ing off about being more Presidential!

after his fans were disappointing in him saying he was going act more Presidential sometime soon.

Donald Trump’s Hardcore Fans Don’t Want Him To Be More ‘Presidential.’ And Neither Does He.

The GOP front-runner was the same Trump he’s always been at a Thursday rally in Pennsylvania

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-presidential-fans_us_571a5ed8e4b0d0042da912fa
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Apr 24, 2016 - 11:40am PT

I've changed plenty of diapers but I've never, ever had my hair colored and styled.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Apr 24, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
Klimmer-
you have a girl friend, a wife? Why not take care of yourself and look good for the one who cares about you and loves you? We want our women to look good. Hey, guess what? They want their men to look good too. It's only natural.

Your a rare treasure my friend- for the sake of entertainment, please post more often :)

overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 24, 2016 - 03:31pm PT
Do you have a girl friend, a wife? Why not take care of yourself and look good for the one who cares about you and loves you? We want our women to look good. Hey, guess what? They want their men to look good too. It's only natural. 


Perhaps you don't have any hair left to take care of? In that case disregard. Lol

Just don't start going on again about how hot you are and May December relationships and s. h. i. t.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Apr 24, 2016 - 05:34pm PT
Klimmer-
It's been prophecied to happen. It will happen all to G-d's glory, and the prayers of the saints who care about this country and who have been on their knees and hands for a very long time making intersession asking for G-d to intervene and turn our nation around. Those prayers do not go up in vain to G-d. G-d listens to the prayers of his children and they are like sweet incense to him. He hears loud and clear. His will be done.

That is no April's Fool joke either.

Could you be kind enough to post a photo of yourself so I can have a visual when I read your treasure?
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Apr 24, 2016 - 05:41pm PT
Contractor wrote: "RNC- If you want more electable candidates, schedule your primaries on WWE Smack Down days."

hahahahahahahahahahahahah... ha!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 24, 2016 - 09:08pm PT
Geez Klimmer, bald guys (and women) can look pretty good. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Just so you understand, this means that what's good for one person should be good for the other, for reasons not elucidated. Or it's not fair. Hair has nothing to do with it.

Are you currently 'engaged'? LOL

Edited to add 'LOL' which really is sort of a bullshit way of saying you're an ass if you have to add LOL (so I guess I'm an ass, LOL). Damn, I'm an ass again!!!! Please stop me!!! I've fallen and I can't get up.

Edited to add !!!

Well, really re-edited. This is getting pretty f*#king complex.

Damn, should have said "Edited: Well, really re-edited. This is getting pretty f*#king complex," but I didn't so had to edit the edit of the edit. But still .................

Edited: Damn!

Edited: Damn was in reference to my edit previous of "Damn", so sort of meant I was editing something that I had ... I give up. LOL..

Edit: Damn, my LOL edit again!! Good night America.

Edit: It was a long day with barrel tasting in Yakima (true) so am gong to bed. LOL.

Edit: Damn!!! Another LOL.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 25, 2016 - 07:08am PT
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/man-arrested-threatening-bomb-rally-donald-trump/story?id=38627413

Looks like another Liberal looking to bomb something. Not sure what is worse, the prospect of someone bombing a political campaign gathering, or that fact that someone in our country can get arrested for "First Degree Threatening".

Enjoy.


//A 20-year-old man was in custody after threatening to bomb Saturday's rally for Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump in Waterbury, Connecticut.

The U.S. Secret Service contacted the Connecticut State Police about 12:45 p.m. after seeing a post on Twitter threatening to "bomb" the Trump rally, authorities said in a statement. According to state police, the Twitter post said, "Is someone going to bomb the Trump rally or am I going to have to?"

A second post warned the suspect's friend to have his family members leave the rally so they wouldn't be hurt, said police.

Investigators found the social media posts, which were open to the public, came from the area of Ardsley Road in Waterbury -- about 30 miles southwest of Hartford -- from the account of Sean Taylor Morkys.

Morkys was located by State Police Counter Terrorism detectives, Waterbury police officers and special agents from the U.S. Secret Service. He was taken into custody at about 5 p.m.

Morkys was charged with first-degree threatening, inciting injury to person or property, and second-degree breach of peace. He was released on a $25,000 bond and was due in court on May 4.//
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 25, 2016 - 07:54am PT
Looks like another Liberal looking to bomb something.

liberals drum circle going bonkers!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 25, 2016 - 09:00am PT
Boy, you guys will have egg on your faces when it's found out that he is a Right Winger, maybe one of JE's sensible Republicans that doesn't like Trump.

This whole Liberal violence meme and Bernie supporters are to blame is of course complete BS

The Right Wing has an endless supply of it
and it demonstrates what dopes you guys are

always the first to shift the blame and never be accountable for others on your right wing side
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 25, 2016 - 09:27am PT
Whose right wing side is that? Your dispersion doesn't find a target in me, CF.

Your idiots are just as retarded as the other idiots.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 25, 2016 - 09:37am PT
Escopeta
Not sure what is worse, the prospect of someone bombing a political campaign gathering, or that fact that someone in our country can get arrested for "First Degree Threatening".


Escopeta: Finally, someone willing to stand up for people threatening violence.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 25, 2016 - 09:50am PT
yeah!

and like, nobody should get arrested for creating a panic in a move theatre by yelling "FIRE"

because that would be infringing on their "right" of Free Speech

again, how old are you, Escopeta?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 25, 2016 - 09:55am PT
Norton, if you aren't careful, you might get arrested for Second Degree Badgering.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Apr 25, 2016 - 10:12am PT
The Lunada Boys and ST have shown that guys our age have a serious propensity for "First Degree Threatening", "Second Degree Badgering" and "Third Degree Pestering".
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 25, 2016 - 10:27am PT
oooooooo...scarrrrry
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 25, 2016 - 11:10am PT
looks like honcho in Mexico is becoming concerned with TRUMP's WALL!


https://www.yahoo.com/news/driven-wall-trump-mexico-looks-recast-image-u-151441674.html?ref=gs
dirtbag

climber
Apr 25, 2016 - 11:20am PT
There won't be a wall. Everyone knows that.

They are, however, rightly concerned that the US might just elect a loud mouthed, know-nothing, unhinged, Mexican-hating puke with orange hair and oranger skin as its leader.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 25, 2016 - 11:24am PT
There won't be a wall

keep dreaming you hippie dirtboy where is your compadre TheHidesertdjKID!
dirtbag

climber
Apr 25, 2016 - 11:30am PT
The wall is his lie. You're buying it.

Sad!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 25, 2016 - 11:54am PT
The wall is his lie. You're buying it.

As are you, it appears....
dirtbag

climber
Apr 25, 2016 - 11:57am PT
You're wrong as usual, Esco.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Apr 25, 2016 - 11:58am PT
Pyro- Trump's an idiot if he doesn't think that every second and third world country will turn to China, Russia or any other American foe when we try to extort them.

These countries aren't exactly living off our coat tails and reaping huge benefits though exceptionalism osmosis like Donald claims. We pay off their leaders to rape their recourses, exploit their people and make them buys American weapon systems and othere goodies. China or someone else would gladly step in.

I took my son up to check out Cal Poly a couple of weekends back and surfed Rincon and Moro Bay- I love that coast! Where's the best climbing/bouldering up there?
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Apr 25, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
WB-
This proves Americans and their criminal leaders are Criminals.

No argument here but the Chinese and Russian governments make our elected criminals look like J-walkers.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 25, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
"First degree threatening" sounds silly, but threatening the POTUS has been a crime for many decades, even if the threat wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It's similar to joking about hijacking an aircraft at the air terminal. As Norton points out, the law treats those sorts of statements as creating a "clear and present danger," justifying criminal sanctions. It doesn't surprise me that someone stating a threat - even a silly one - to commit violence will find the weight of the law on them.

John
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Apr 25, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
i don't know which is more desperate:

the cruz/kasich alliance...

or

bernie's saying he's going to try and get the superdelegates to flip even if [when] he loses the pledged delegate vote...



both are just the cries and thrashings of doomed men trying to make deals with other devils, in order to make one last gasped attempt at stopping the devils at hand... and the desperation intrinsic in both moves, shows that barring the hail mary pass of a clinton indictment or a republican establishment imperial move, there's nothing left in this race but a simple choice:

trump or clinton.



oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we...
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Apr 25, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Well put Nah.

In terms of Clinton; The corporate powers that be, that still oppose her, will fight her to the point of extracting the best deal they can.

I'm still perplexed by Donald. What has he said behind closed doors that have corporate America so freaked. There's no way these powers have not aproached him with a deal.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 25, 2016 - 06:07pm PT
I'm still perplexed by Donald. What has he said behind closed doors that have corporate America so freaked.

could google for a full list, but just recently Trump said he would support raising, not lowering, taxes on the "rich" which of course includes upper level corporates

it seems that Donald loses a half a million votes every day every time he opens his mouth

by October he ought to be down to just pyro who will vote for him
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 25, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
Ready for Truuump?

Apparently Indiana Hoser Wild Man Knight is.



Sage advice

In 1988, Knight commented to reporter Connie Chung on the way he handled stress by saying “If rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.”

So is Trump fukkin' Knight or Knight fukkin' Trump?


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/bobby-knight-join-donald-trump-event-indy-report-article-1.2614163
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 25, 2016 - 07:32pm PT
F u c k that's right, I remember that! What a nut!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 25, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 25, 2016 - 09:00pm PT
Making a threat against Trump is not the only way to get arrested.

Today, you can go to prison just for being a little bit weird.


Car salesman tries to combat ISIS from his living room, winds up in prison


He had badgered the FBI with his various ideas for defeating ISIS.

To shut him up, they had him arrested and declared mentally unfit for trial.

For 14 months, he couldn't access emails and other documents to prove that his stories were true. When he told psychologists he had been investigating ISIS, they declared him grandiose and delusional. Because he had been initially charged by the FBI with a crime, making a threat, he remained in custody. Prosecutors sought a court order to have him forcibly medicated.

He was finally released on bail when he showed his documents to a doctor, who believed his ISIS story. The criminal charges were dropped before the case went to trial.


tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 25, 2016 - 11:24pm PT
from Trump at War
How the military is preparing for the possibility of a very different kind of Commander in Chief.
Story By ANDY KROLL

Trump avoided the draft, but called his sex life in the 1980s “my personal Vietnam.” Citing his fear of sexually transmitted diseases, he said, "I feel like a great and very brave soldier.”
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 26, 2016 - 12:54am PT
That, and a one man abortion clinic.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 26, 2016 - 04:05am PT
Trump's claim that his NYC boy-toy promiscuity was like fighting the Vietnam War is highly disrespectful to war veterans. He has doubled-down on when he said that captured soldiers, like Senator John McCain, were losers.



Trump was an uncontrollable monster as a child. His father sent him to a military-themed reformatory between the ages of 14 and 18.

Trump now claims that makes him "The Best Military Guy in the World".

At the reform school, Trump was a champion athlete, and was a team captain.

Then, he got a Vietnam War deferment for being physically disabled by bone spurs in his foot. In a later interview, he couldn't remember which foot had the imaginary bone spurs.

Apparently, Trump's fabulous report about his "excellent health, the best of any person who ever thought about running for President" was written by the bone-spur doctor (actually, it was the son of the bone spur doctor).
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 26, 2016 - 05:21am PT
Crank- Holy crap that's amazing.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 26, 2016 - 05:42am PT
He had badgered the FBI with his various ideas for defeating ISIS.

To shut him up, they had him arrested and declared mentally unfit for trial.

See Norton, arrested for badgering. Just sayin'
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Apr 26, 2016 - 06:50am PT
Crank- Holy crap that's amazing.

Indeed. Brilliant.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 26, 2016 - 06:58am PT
Credit where credit is due...

http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/trump-at-war/
kattz

climber
Apr 26, 2016 - 07:42am PT
He was pulled into the murky world of Internet jihadists, sparring with them from his office at the car dealership and late into the night at home. Before long, he was talking for hours on Skype with a man who claimed — falsely, as it would turn out — to be a top ISIS military commander, trying to negotiate the release of hostages.

...

The hundreds of emails, text messages and recorded Skype calls that Mr. Lopez saved show him growing more and more frantic when F.B.I. agents did not see things his way. Believing American hostages’ lives were at stake, he sent an agent 80 increasingly overheated messages in 10 days. In one, he declared, “Just remember whatever ends up happening to you … You deserved it,” and added an expletive. On Feb. 11, 2015, a dozen police and F.B.I. cars surrounded the house with the cherry tree, arrested Mr. Lopez and charged him with transmitting a threat.



Replace "ISIS" with "Wall Street"...hahaha
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 26, 2016 - 08:18am PT
by October he ought to be down to just pyro who will vote for him


overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 26, 2016 - 08:19am PT
Yeah, on his chin


NTTIAWWT...(looking around for The Artist, Stizzle)
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 26, 2016 - 09:25am PT
The Trump At War article that Crankster links to is an amazing piece of journalism. Without ever straying from an objective, level-headed discourse, Andy Kroll dismisses Trump and his so-called advisers as worse than ignorant amateurs.

Here is the link again:

http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/trump-at-war/





Notice that Pyro's image above is a promotion for a sweatshirt that's for sale. Trump's campaign merchandise is probably his biggest cash cow right now.


NostraThomas predicts this will be a typical eBay listing in 8 months:

Trump Make Great baseball cap for sale. Red. Only worn a few times. Good condition. $5 OBO. Free shipping.

overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 26, 2016 - 09:29am PT
I will read that but my gut tells me all I need to know about the Trumpet
dirtbag

climber
Apr 26, 2016 - 09:38am PT
"Balls"...? Maybe.

Heart? No.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 26, 2016 - 10:27am PT
If the nomination goes to the convention, look out for a nominee from the unknown dark horse -- fattrad. Jeff tells me he already has 15 delegates lined up, ten from Trump, Five from Cruz, provided they get to the tenth ballot.

John
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Apr 26, 2016 - 11:48am PT
The more hate that Trump gets, the more Republicans like him.

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump is above the 50-percent mark nationally in an online tracking poll.

The billionaire businessman added 4 points to reach 50 percent in the latest NBC News/SurveyMonkey weekly poll, released Tuesday morning.

It's the first time he's reached the threshold since the poll launched late last year.

He's been in the high 40-percent range since the middle of last month.

Ted Cruz lost 2 points in the latest poll to fall to 26 percent while John Kasich is at 17 percent, also down 2 points.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-breaks-50-percent-mark-in-national-poll/ar-BBshgEI?li=BBnb7Kz
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 26, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
The more hate that Trump gets, the more Republicans like him.

Fritz.... REAL Republicans hate Trump.... the rest of US think he is a much better pick than the other 16/19 losers.

But REAL Republicans KNOW what is BEST for all of US. Don't they???

dirtbag

climber
Apr 26, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
If the nomination goes to the convention, look out for a nominee from the unknown dark horse -- fattrad. Jeff tells me he already has 15 delegates lined up, ten from Trump, Five from Cruz, provided they get to the tenth ballot.

John

Nomination for what? Dog catcher?
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 26, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
When is Trump gonna debate Eldridge?

Hear the similarities or don't.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Apr 26, 2016 - 06:37pm PT
so does anyone know how Fatty is doing?

is he still active in the California Young Republicans Party?
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 26, 2016 - 06:43pm PT

The Mason's wife didn't believe that Donald Trump wore a hairpiece to hide the swastika tattooed on his bald head. But she did believe that his wig maker used monkey hair (as well as water buffalo pubic hair) in the composition of the hair mat...


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ioBxYAkSiTM/VdcrGdYCSCI/AAAAAAAAeCE/cREunFkDN4Q/s1600/trump-swastika.jpg
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 26, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
Total sweep by The Donald
even with the collusion

105 out of the 118 delegates


faTTy sent me a PM, and he is a Trump pundit this year
He wants us all to vote Trump in June, and not for that commie Bernie, or untrustworthy Hilbirly.

We should do it for the evil one...Fattrad

I told him I will pass the message on....
Norton

Social climber
Apr 26, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
Craig

please tell Fatty that as I am now a registered Republican I will be voting for Donald Trump in my state's Republican Primary in June

because he is the one I would like to see face Hillary in November

thank you
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 26, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
NORTON!!!!
Hold on please!
maybe you need to be part of the Republican establishment's collusion to make sure no one gets 1247..

are you sure you don't want to be part of "Operation Chaos" and let the illuminati take over?
(faTTy's advice, bring it on!)
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 26, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
The republican Party in done on a national level.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 26, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 26, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 26, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
It's Hillary vs. the Huckster. The GOP is actually going to nominate Donald Trump for president. Personally, I was hoping for Cruz.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 26, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
Yargle Bargle!
dirtbag

climber
Apr 26, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
Too funny, Craig!
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 26, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
"we'll demolish him with our 10% less despised advantage"...LOL

the evil of 2 lessers
Ryan Tetz

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Apr 26, 2016 - 11:33pm PT
Woot woot!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 27, 2016 - 05:35am PT
TT wrote: the evil of 2 lesser



Total bullsh#t.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 27, 2016 - 06:19am PT
^^^
+1

Losers lament.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Apr 27, 2016 - 09:51am PT
Benghazi!!!

What does this have to do with Trump? There's a whole Hillary thread going on, why not post there?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 10:03am PT
Hillary seems well able to handle the taunts that Trump used to derail his (supposed)fellow GOP's. Her "If that is the Woman Card.... Deal me in!" retort was brilliantly executed.

At least she does well when it's not on the spot/face to face, that is obvious. But something tells me she will have no trouble rebuffing the buffoon during debates.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 27, 2016 - 10:19am PT
Trump is a buffoon. Klimmer, you've been conned. I feel sorry for you.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 10:23am PT


Obama is black and Hillary is a woman

opposition has nothing to do with anything else, to very many people
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Apr 27, 2016 - 10:30am PT
He's just naive ....


Holy moley, just listen to yourself. One of Trump's arguments coming into this race was that he knows how the system works because he has "bought" politicians himself. Naive is not the right word for that, but he may be naive in thinking how he will interact with other world leaders. These leaders are not going to want the same kind of things from him that he has had success selling in the past. It is really hard to read Trump as to what he will do given a specific problem/presidential task. I really don't think he has given much thought to most of what he will be encountering if elected president.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Apr 27, 2016 - 10:35am PT
AND unfortunately Norton is right. Obama was screwed from the get go just because he was half black...which makes him black. And like most people, Obama had a hard time dealing with being fought with just because he is who he is. Basically, our whole country has been put on hold just because the first "black" president was elected. That's no way to run a government "for the people and by the people".
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 27, 2016 - 10:38am PT
hey Klammer maybe you are the one that is naive thinking that Trump has never broken the law
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Apr 27, 2016 - 10:44am PT
Klimmer, yes. You are a great example of cognitive dissonance. You are also correct that others here also are good examples of that very same thing. Me? I don't know; I trust none of these people but I'm sure my logic falls apart somewhere. Problem is, politics and "cognitive dissonance" seem to go hand in hand.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 27, 2016 - 11:19am PT

Just purchased!
dirtbag

climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 11:37am PT
But no heart or empathy.


He mocks people for their disability. A cruel son of a bitch like that should NEVER be president.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 11:48am PT
Looks like Cruz is gonna name Carly as his VP

And Trump will name pyro or Klimmer
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 11:53am PT
klimmer posted
Cognitive dissonance.

You all seem to be willing to excuse illegal and immoral behavior.


You're supporting a guy who literally brags in multiple books about all the larceny that he's committed. Openly brags about it. He actually uses that as reason why he'd be such a great president. You're talking about a dude who openly states that he states his net worth based entirely on how he's feeling that particular day. Your guy actively segregated his father's apartment buildings as a matter of policy. So yes, I will take allegations of grey area ethical issues and democratic accountability and a track record of actually helping people over whatever Trump is any day.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
I sure hope so.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 27, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
what's left worth saving?

Well, as with any large organization after a while it only exists for itself and the colony
members. Its purpose is survival. The Repubs will certainly re-group. Look what's
happening in Europe - the moderate libs are having their behinds handed to them like
there's no tomorrow. The only given in politics is change after whoever is in power amply
demonstrates their incompetence.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 27, 2016 - 12:24pm PT
Yeah it doesn't bother me at all to answer his walls of text with snarky one-liners. Who's wasting more time?

Wow that's a f. u. c. k. e. d-up picture whether it's real or not
Norton

Social climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 12:37pm PT
I think I get why pyro and Klimmer will vote for Trump

he is a man's man, calls em like he sees em, not afraid to say what he thinks

kattz

climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
Adultery is a crime in a few states, in some a felony, by the way, so all previous presidents and candidates belong in jail anyway, probably.
There's no politician who's not a liar, a crook and a cheater....good luck with finding such (this includes Sanders' and their mystery taxes and college fraud scandal, plus arrest for disturbing the peace).
(and no one on this board ever lied or broke some minor law, of course)
dirtbag

climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 01:02pm PT
Any idiot can have balls.

The drunk who picks a fight and gets his ass whooped has balls. Let's vote for him!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 27, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/03/18/polls-trump-gets-clobbered-by-hillary-among-swing-groups-n2135769



The angry old white male vote is slowly dying off.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 27, 2016 - 02:00pm PT
Replaced with prissy gutless freeloaders.

I wonder who they will blame when the gravy train derails?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 27, 2016 - 04:05pm PT
Cable news is showing this clown's speech in Indianapolis live. Wtf??

I've been a media defender, but covering him nonstop for ratings is getting sickening.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 27, 2016 - 04:09pm PT


OMG, here's a match made in heaven...
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 04:25pm PT
Cruz left Perry for Trump to pick up.

Between 'em they'll be able to name just about everything that doesn't add up to more than twenty.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Apr 27, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
How old are you? Buahahahaha
Norton

Social climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 04:50pm PT

So, How IS Donald Really Doing in the Minds of Voters?

new reuters poll


Opposition to Trump nearly unites the rising generation.

In a hypothetical Clinton v. Trump contest in November, voters under 35 would choose Clinton by a crushing 52%-19%, a preference that crosses demographic lines.

Among whites, she'd be backed by nearly 2-1, 45%-26%.

Among Hispanics, by more than 4-1, 61%-14%

. Among Asian Americans, by 5-1, 60%-11%.

Among African Americans, by 13-1, 67%-5%.

...Nearly one in four Republicans would defect to the Democrats if the GOP nominated Trump against Clinton. Just 7% of Democrats would defect to the GOP.


Some experts estimate that Trump would need to win 70 percent of white males in order to be victorious
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 27, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
Adultery is a crime in a few states, in some a felony

Really??
Well let's throw Trump in jail now then...
He cheated on Ivana with Marla Maples

Cognitive dissonance??
Yes, Klimmer is a case study of how it works on educated people



The Cruz Fiona Ticket
The 2 most hated politicians of this cycle, together for a run to be President

what will the RNC do?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 27, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
According to Fattrad, he told Cruz to pick Carly Fiona
it was part of Operation Donald, destroy Cruz by hooking him up with the witch from hell and Cruz will go done in flames
And Trump will win!!!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 27, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
"Breaking NEWS !!!

Hillary will have Obama as Vice President for running mate."


That's awesome.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 27, 2016 - 06:22pm PT

I see a pattern
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 27, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
Trump looks a little sh#t-faced in that top photo.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 27, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
Klimmer's dream candidate:
http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/candidates/us-senate-candidate-statements.htm

Massie Munroe | DEMOCRATIC

My candidacy represents the United States Constitution, the only contract between the people of America and America's government "Of the people, By the people, For the people" to be restored and strengthened in America and extended to the UN as a contract between all people of our world through US leadership and diplomacy. International bankers, multinational corporate leaders, militaries and police must all 100% obey, comply with the Constitution of the US/UN in the Spirit of Truth, Serving All in Peace. Transforming from the Industrial Technology Age to the new "Energy Technology Era" will saturate US job markets for the next 500 years. My campaign represents ending international bankers' rule and their financial exploitation of nations; reestablishing people's rule by creating a Citizen's Bank to serve as America's central bank; ending mind control slavery; ending non-consensual human experimentation; ending hunger, homelessness and violence; protecting earth, water, air, forests, oceans and animals; practicing Christ consciousness and implementing constitutional justice under the leadership of the US/UN. Through my national and international research and political activism, I identified "mind control slavery" by satellite energy technology weapons and social engineering programs that have been in continual development for the past 50 years and facilitated their "declassification". As a result, I came under heavy sanctions that are ongoing. I request you, the voter, to rise above all untrue accusations that assail my good character and heart. See my evidence and review my service. Senator Bernie Sanders' presidency is crucial for bringing this into reality.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 27, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
Well if she wasn't his daughter, he would like to hit this
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 27, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
He'd have to get in line behind me.
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
Cruz called the hoop a rim, then a ring.

He says "Bruce, how tall is that basketball rim?"

The so-called fourth estate is right on. They get it right about one quarter of the time.





thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Apr 27, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
I'd vote for The Hair over HRC. There, I said it.


Reminds me of the coke dealer: "oh, mainly for the flavor, that's why I insufflate."
Norton

Social climber
Apr 27, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Apr 27, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Is a qoute like a mixture of a quail and a pluot?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 28, 2016 - 06:56am PT
Cruz is throwing a Hail-mary!
Those established repubs are such big group to work with.. lol
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 28, 2016 - 07:15am PT
John Boehner was speaking at Stanford yesterday; when specifically asked his opinions on Ted Cruz, Boehner made a face, drawing laughter from the crowd.

“Lucifer in the flesh,” the former speaker said. “I have Democrat friends and Republican friends. I get along with almost everyone, but I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life.”

And now it's Cruz and Carly. A match made in hell.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 28, 2016 - 08:42am PT
dirtbag

climber
Apr 28, 2016 - 08:48am PT
Honest question: does Carly generate any enthusiasm at all?

If so, why?

She was a horrible CEO. She failed as a senatorial candidate. She failed as a presidential candidate. Her former employees dislike her. She does not look good on paper. She is smart, but there are hundreds of smart but terrible ex-CEOs around. I've never understood her appeal, if there was any in the first place.
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 28, 2016 - 08:53am PT
Waitin' on Boehner's comments on Fio, No puto deus fio?

At a town hall Wednesday at Stanford University, Boehner called Cruz "Lucifer in the flesh" — and then went there.

"I've never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life," he added. Boehner even suggested he would vote for Donald Trump, but not Cruz.
STEEVEE

Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
Apr 28, 2016 - 09:46am PT
She is smart...
Any evidence of that?














I didn't think so. There's plenty of evidence of how dumb she is; for one she joined Cruz.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 28, 2016 - 09:49am PT
“Lucifer in the flesh,” the former speaker said. “I have Democrat friends and Republican friends. I get along with almost everyone, but I have never worked with a more miserable son of a bitch in my life.”


My respect for Boehner just ticked up a notch.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Apr 28, 2016 - 09:54am PT
Don't be too hard on Boehner. He was not my favorite guy in congress either, but his job his last 8 years (at least) was basically herding cats.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 28, 2016 - 09:56am PT
I didn't think so. There's plenty of evidence of how dumb she is; for one she joined Cruz.

Never, ever, assume your political opponents are dumb. Cruz is really f*#king smart, friends and enemies alike who know him well concede this point. He might be the smartest person in the race on both sides. He's weasely and wrong about most things, but sharp. I've heard fiorina speak many times and she is sharp too. Wrong on the issues and opportunistic, but smart.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 28, 2016 - 09:59am PT
Smart, yes, but she's no singer.

In the long run, I think Cruz would lose to Hillary by a wider margin than Trump. He's just so universally disliked outside of evangelical and hardcore tea party circles. I hear this from conservative's I know..."there's just something about the guy". The evil just shines through.

Trump, on the other hand, is seen as more likable, for reasons that are hard to comprehend.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 28, 2016 - 10:12am PT
Dirtbag seems to have read Sun Tzu and maybe his bro Lao.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 28, 2016 - 10:17am PT
Wise words, Dirtbag. The prevelant attitude today seems to be "anyone with whom I disagree is stupid." Sad to say, that attitude lives in more places than the Super Topo forum.

John
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Apr 28, 2016 - 10:37am PT
Klimmer, you DO realize that is an opinion piece only, and that the author is regarded as a hack, don't you?

You are correct that when people read that type of writing and think the person has some expertise with which to base his sentiments on, they often fall for it. But I don't think it is going to help Trump much, frankly.


On a tangent, and back to the thread topic, which - surprise! - is not Hillary Clinton....


Personally, I would love to see the RNC make an announcement at their convention start. Something like "Donald Trump will not be the nominee for the Republican Party. The reason being (long dramatic pause) because."

The speaker turns and begins to leave the podium, but turns around, sticks out his tounge, and then makes that "nah, nah, nah, na, nah nya" sound.

Failing that occurrence - let him be nominated, and one by one, every other country we currently consider an ally sends their ambassador with a message of intent to withdraw all support and diplomatic exchange with the United States should the madman be elected.


Norton

Social climber
Apr 28, 2016 - 10:46am PT
Well, regarding Cruz being "smart"

that's a tough one, isn't it?

He IS a Harvard Law graduate, gotta have a very high intellect to be one of those.

Yet he is seemingly very wrong about a lot of things, good example is climate change

how can someone who is supposed to be so intelligent come to such wrong conclusions?

is it because it is all an act, an act to show the Republican base that he is just as dumb and wrong as them? IF so, Cruz is a hell of a good troll

but if not an act, then what kind of mental affliction does he have that gives him high intelligence but only selectively, as in book learning but not common sense?

DOES SUPER HIGH IQ EQUAL SUPER LOW COMMON SENSE?
http://www.science20.com/rogue_neuron/does_superhigh_iq_superlow_common_sense
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 28, 2016 - 11:24am PT
Personally, I would love to see the RNC make an announcement at their convention start. Something like "Donald Trump will not be the nominee for the Republican Party. The reason being (long dramatic pause) because."

Are you a Member of the Republican Party???

Failing that occurrence - let him be nominated, and one by one, every other country we currently consider an ally sends their ambassador with a message of intent to withdraw all support and diplomatic exchange with the United States should the madman be elected.


DO live in Dreamland?..... we send all of or "Allies" big sums of $$$$$$.... and do you really think that they could live without that money?


Donald IS going to get the number of delegates needed, he has the population on his side (as far as Republicans go) and once he starts in on HRC... the whole election will get most fun.

I do predict that all of the Repub establishment types will STFU and fall inline and support The Donald, otherwise once he wins, they will be on the outside looking in.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 28, 2016 - 12:37pm PT
Well, regarding Cruz being "smart"


Cruz' allegedly high intelligence does not automatically make him suitable to be president.

A "super smart" person should sometimes be feared and loathed, and not instantly hailed as society's savior.



Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, was a genius child math prodigy who entered Harvard at 16, and at 25 became the youngest professor, or any kind, at the University of California. Two years later, he moved to an uninhabitable shack in Montana and began mailing booby-trapped bombs to people he had never met before. His solution for society's problems was disseminated in a demented manifesto that was published in the the New York Times and other newspapers, after he threatened further random acts of violence against society. Kaczynski is currently housed in the Federal SuperMax Prison in Florence, Colorado.

Charles Manson was a gifted musician who greatly impressed Dennis Wilson, of the Beach Boys, who personally financed Manson in a recording deal. Manson was a charismatic leader, adored by dozens of followers. He manipulated those followers into committing a series of mass murders in the Los Angeles area. Manson is currently housed in Corcoran State Prison in California.

Jim Jones was a highly intelligent social leader who established his own chuch, The People's Temple. He convinced 1000 people to relocate from the San Francisco Bay area to a desolate jungle in South America and to live with him in a primitive, prehistoric manner. 909 people, including over 300 children, poisoned themselves with cyanide-laced Kool-Aid, with Jones preferring to shoot himself in the head.


Adolf Hitler was a genius politician, who was able to gain complete control of Germany after disassembling its legislature, and installing himself as the nation's solitary leader. He instigated the worst military conflict in history, and personally ordered the systematic extermination of tens of millions of people that he considered to be inferior to himself. He poisoned his girlfriend/wife with cyanide, and then shot himself in the head.

Adolf Hitler's propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels was a highly intelligent scholar who perfected the modern method of elevating a politician using a cult of personality. He poisoned his six children with morphine and cyanide, and then shot his wife and himself.



So, don't talk to me about how smart Ted Cruz is.


Ted Cruz is a psychopath who is universally loathed in the Senate. He fraudulently financed his election to the Senate with hidden loans from Goldman Sachs, where his wife was a high-ranking executive. His con-man election sales pitch was that his campaign was financed by liquidating his own family's meager assets, sacrificing himself for the benefit of the rest of society. In reality, he took about $1 million from Goldman Sachs in loans that he intentionally concealed from voters. How those loans were paid back, or if they were paid back, remains unknown.

Ted Cruz has said that if he becomes president, The Bible will supersede the United States Constitution. He has not said which version of the Bible he will use when he commits treason and violates his oath of office.

If Ted Cruz decides to use a "PTL Club Partnership Edition Bible", like the one in my library, it will be a Bible that has been extensively annotated and modified by a corrupt religious organization, and which is significantly different from other Bibles.

Jim Bakker was a highly intelligent television-based religious charlatan who defrauded millions of people and convinced them to send him their money. His PTL Ministry (by turns, "Praise the Lord" and "Pass the Loot") was one of the most lucrative religion-based confidence games in history.

One of Jim Bakker's scams was to send a "PTL Partnership Edition" bible to people who had sent him $1000. It cost Bakker less than $6.66 to print and bind the modified bible book, which was copyrighted to prevent anyone else from using it in their own get-rich-quick scheme.

Jim Bakker spent five years in a Federal prison for mail and wire fraud violations, and is currently back on television, exhorting his audience to send their money to him.



overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 28, 2016 - 12:55pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 28, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
"Never, ever, assume your political opponents are dumb. Cruz is really f*#king smart, friends and enemies alike who know him well concede this point."


Bush II was a little on the dim side...just like the neo-cons wanted. Can't have a smart puppet, after all.

Cruz, on the other hand, is quite intelligent. Connivingly so. Psychopaths are oftentimes brilliant, as they slide the knife into your back, smiling to your face.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 28, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
Hillary beats Trump by 10 million popular and over 120 Electoral Votes in a Landslide.

The Dems take back the Senate and pick up a few House seats but it remains Republican

Hillary nominates and the Democratic Senate confirm 3-4 new SC Justices over 8 years.

Republican House blocks every effort to pass legislation that benefits the middle classes..

Nothing else comes out of the White House except dinner party guests.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 28, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
Bush II was one of the most highly educated of all the Presidents, with degrees from both Harvard and Yale.

Bush II is the only U.S. President to earn an MBA.

But, Bush II is not the only President who was a Morally-Bankrupt Asshole.






Dana Carvey anagramming "Santa" into "Satan" with magnetic letters on SNL was hilarious. Pure Genius.

Dana Carvey is a highly intelligent comedic actor who nearly kills his audience by making them laugh so hard they can't breathe.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 28, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
I actually don't think W was morally bankrupt. Neocons are basically idealists who believe military force can be used to bring positive democratic changes in the Mideast. It was a bad idea then, tragically so now, but I think he sincerely believed he would improve things.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 28, 2016 - 01:58pm PT
I think he sincerely believed he would improve things.

That is like saying that he believed he would save those Iraqi people from their horrible lives by killing them and ending their lives.


Bush II wanted to improve conditions for a limited group of people, such as himself and his friends.

If I rob you, I am improving things for myself.



All psychopaths think they are doing the right thing. Dale Carnegie's book, How To Win Friends and Influence People points this out.


Alphonse "Scarface Al" Capone was a highly intelligent Morally Bankrupt Asshole who manipulated his way from being a streetfight-cut saloon bouncer into leading the largest criminal organization in America. Capone would attend baseball games and sign autographs like a celebrity. He donated generously to impoverished Chicago neighborhoods. Right up to the time that syphilis destroyed his mind and he was photographed trying to catch imaginary fish in his mansion swimming pool, Capone believed that he was a good person who had done his best to improve things.

To this day, Bush and Dick Cheney both say that they proud of the roles they played in the Iraqi war debacle. In their twisted minds, the current situation in the Middle East is improved, compared to before.



Adolf Hitler believed that exterminating Jews would improve things.

At no time did Hitler say, "If we kill the Jews, the world will be worse off. So, let's make the world worse."

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 28, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
Republican House blocks every effort to pass legislation that benefits the middle classes.

You mean like Obamacare? That sort of "benefit" to the middle class?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 28, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
"Bush II was one of the most highly educated of all the Presidents, with degrees from both Harvard and Yale."

College education is a poor indicator of general intelligence. There are plenty of people who make it through universities or colleges, just checking the boxes as they go along, perhaps with a little (LOT) of help from influential people to smooth their paths, get their degrees, and still aren't brilliant. Perhaps more informed, and have learned how to learn, but not much more intelligent than when they started.

People like Cruz or Trump aren't so much educated as they are just plain smart. Which would be all and good if their intelligence was directed in a positive, productive manner- instead, they are both psychopathic narcissists, seeing their own needs and agenda as the only thing that exists in the world. That's what makes them truly scary.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 28, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
"Morally bankrupt" is a very harsh, all or nothing term. There is a lot of gray area here, and creating a failed policy does not make one morally bankrupt. W was hardly Al Capone or Hitler.

Donald seems closer to moral bankruptcy, although even here I think that term would be an overstatement. But watching him publicly humiliate a disabled person makes me question whether he has a heart.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 28, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
I used the term Morally-Bankrupt because it fits nicely as a not-so-exaggeratory stereotype of self-serving, predatory and cannibalistic Wall Street bankers who proudly display their MBAs as badges of honor to justify their sociopathic behavior.

Yes, it is highly prejudicial.

Not all people with MBAs are morally bankrupt as#@&%es.

Some are.

Lloyd Blankfein, CEO of Goldman Sachs, is a morally-bankrupt as#@&%e, for example. So is Richard Fuld, CEO of Lehman Brothers when he orchestrated that bank's spectacular international implosion.





Whether Bush II is morally-bankrupt, or is simply a puppet of others who are, is moot.

Bush went before Congress and lied about Iraq's threat to America to get approval for a war of invasion that disrupted the entire region, and which is still adversely affecting America and the rest of the world eight years after he has allegedly passed into senility as an "artist" doing dog portraits.

Hitler was a mediocre artist, too.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 28, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
These Republican Politicians don't have high IQs

They have extremely high confidence levels that enable them to scam and lie with impunity.
The are authoritarians, they lead through authority, the authoritarian followers love a strong leader that will save them from chaos

Add some psychopathy, and you have Trump and Cruz, they are loving their giant scam on the people

You can tell Trump isn't that smart just by listening to him, he doesn't have a full understanding of issues, of ramifications, of so much more.
He just diverts from the question and has a stock answer of he will do whatever (your issue is) Great, Because He is Great.

He just has to keep up the act, and the gullible will eat it up.

Trump does know that there is a huge population of folks that have low IQs, and these people will believe anything they read, they do not have the critical thinking skills to discern lies from facts, and when they are being scammed. They believe Trump will do what he says????

If you can't see the ramifications of deporting all illegal aliens, or keeping Muslim's out of the country, then you are an idiot.


Morally bankrupt is a good word for Bush, and his supporters, and most Republicans, and right wing Christians, they have no empathy for the other tribes, which is the same as being morally bankrupt,
voting to make things worse for the all vulnerable, to increase suffering and poverty, all because they are greedy and want low taxes.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 28, 2016 - 04:13pm PT
I think Trump is dumb like a fox.

A car salesman will pretend to not know anything mechanical, when asked why the vehicle is unsafe when in motion. Instead, he will talk about how shiny the paint is.

Similarly, Trump will evade questions and divert his non-answers towards boasts about his penis size, promiscuity, over-stated wealth, etc. to puff himself up and redirect people's attention towards what he wants to present as his best qualities.




Like the Unabomber, Trump and Cruz are extremely dangerous precisely because they are not stupid.

Ted Kaczynski's super-brain allowed him to anticipate and design around the FBI's attempts to track the source of his mail bombs. This allowed Kaczynski to operate with impunity until he egotistically demanded that his manifesto be published in newspapers. If it were not for the manifesto, Kaczynski would have been enshrined in the dark Pantheon of other serial killers, like Jack the Ripper and the Zodiac, who were never caught.


A manipulative psychopath is a very dangerous creature.

To have two archetypes of that sort battling each other to be President of the United States is surreal, and not unlike a Kafkaesque story of being suddenly transported back in time to 4th century Rome.




I fear for the future, more than I loathe the past.


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 28, 2016 - 04:25pm PT
The car salesmen don't know that much about the mechanical stuff, so they sell on the points they are strong on.

The unbomber can't be compared to Trump or Cruz.


Trump doesn't know that much about issues
or how our Government works

He knows how to sell himself, he made billions selling the Trump image
He is nothing more than an glorified salesman with an over sized ego
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 28, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
madbolter1 asks:

"You mean like Obamacare? That sort of "benefit" to the middle class?"

No, like national health insurance. That sort of benefit to the country.

A question, madbolter1, if you got rid of Obamacare, would you reinstate the 'pre-existing condition' bullsh#t? It's really time to join the rest of the civilized world. Clinton was in favor of national health insurance when Bill was president; I hope she pushes it during her terms. I really like Bernie and have given him money, but I'm afraid it's over.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 28, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
No, like national health insurance. That sort of benefit to the country.

Ahh, right, where the middle class can, yet again, pay for almost all of it, costing the middle class more than if it just bought its own health insurance as it did before. Sorry, but I don't see the "benefit."

A question, madbolter1, if you got rid of Obamacare, would you reinstate the 'pre-existing condition' bullsh#t?

No, but it takes a different sort of "reform" (remember that Obamacare was supposed to "reform healthcare")! You'd need to have a government that actually cared to regulate monopolistic enterprises (like giant drug companies and nation-wide insurers). I'm all for regulation of major industries, unlike most "republicans".

Clinton was in favor of national health insurance when Bill was president; I hope she pushes it during her terms.

There is exactly zero chance that she's going to do anything to piss off her corporate supporters. She's NOT for us in any sense. She's as "establishment" and owned by banks and corporations as the worst of the republicans.

I really like Bernie and have given him money, but I'm afraid it's over.

Totally with you on all counts! It's sad.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 28, 2016 - 05:50pm PT

You've foreseen the future...and it's all BAD. And you certainly have no sense of history. Zero.

"Owned" has got to be the most simplistic word used today.

Read...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 28, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
"There is exactly zero chance that she's going to do anything to piss off her corporate supporters. She's NOT for us in any sense. She's as "establishment" and owned by banks and corporations as the worst of the republicans."


Of course you know this on a personal level.



It goes again all that she has champion for equal pay for women, raising the minimum wage, healthcare for all US citizens and woman and LBGT equal rights.




Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 28, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
What's really astounding, madbolter, is that Obamacare is really a Republican plan. I was opposed to it during legislation becasue it didn't go far enough; it ain't so great. Romney, who was actually the first to do this, denied his involvement. Republican run states are screwing their citizens with the Medicare extension, and just to prove a point, that they are as#@&%es. No, we really need to step back and see who is making money off this; they are the villains here and I suspect, as you might agree, that it is moneyed interests.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 28, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
Hillary...1993 fighting for healthcare for all Americans. "Millions of Americans are just a pink slip away from losing their health insurance, and one serious illness away from losing all their savings. Millions more are locked into the jobs they have now just because they or someone in their family has once been sick and they have what is called the preexisting condition. And on any given day, over 37 million Americans—most of them working people and their little children—have no health insurance at all. And in spite of all this, our medical bills are growing at over twice the rate of inflation, and the United States spends over a third more of its income on health care than any other nation on Earth."
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 28, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
You guys are aware, I assume, that for a president to have something passed into law he/she has to have the votes, right? Like from a majority of elected representatives from other states? You know that a platform isn't worth anything when he/she is sworn into office...it's starting from scratch, right?
Damn democracy.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 28, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
Yes Crankster and Hillary has the best chance of getting a majority in the senate.


Also, today poll...republicans don't even like republicans.


http://www.people-press.org/2016/04/28/gops-favorability-rating-edges-lower/


Democrats favorability is steady.

zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 28, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
Wise words, Dirtbag. The prevelant attitude today seems to be "anyone with whom I disagree is stupid."

Not true JE. I almost never agree with your conclusions (and some of the premises), but I don't think you are and would never call you stupid.


Bob Knight on the other hand is stupid.



climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 28, 2016 - 10:30pm PT
In other news Trumps has announced his vice presidential running mate will be...

Donald Trump.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 29, 2016 - 01:34am PT
Earns praise in Russia - exactly...

The meandering pandering in that debacle of a 'speech' was beyond embarrassing from foreign policy and diplomacy perspectives.

Trump's biggest problem in the general boils down to the fact he doesn't take handling or muzzling very well. That's an issue because, left to his own devices, he'll constantly be straying off-message and popping off in ways which alienate yet more people and constituencies. And while that sh#t works great in the fantasy gop primary, it is just killing in the general.

He'd be way better off if the election were in August or September rather than November as it's just way too much time for him to f*#k himself again and again. As it is, we'd have to see precipitous six-month decline in the nation's IQ for him to win come election day.

Could it happen? Anything is possible and it will definitely be a nation-wide intelligence test. If he wins we're it means we're already deep into to third world Crackistan territory.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Apr 29, 2016 - 01:45am PT
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 29, 2016 - 01:58am PT
For Klimmer (the only way it could be better is if Jesus had his arms around each of them...):

Even UFOs Are Following Trump (Despite Being Undocumented Aliens)

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 29, 2016 - 07:31am PT
What the rest of the world thinks about Trump.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/28/donald-trump-president-world-leaders-foreign-relations
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 29, 2016 - 10:10am PT
Klimmer...you are bat-shit crazy...http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/



http://www.dailywire.com/news/4834/trumps-101-lies-hank-berrien
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 29, 2016 - 10:57am PT
Now The Hair thinks he can draw in Bernie supporters.

Not any smart ones.
John M

climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 11:06am PT
what Hillary is or isn't has nothing to do with whether Trump is honest or would make a good president. I'm sorry Klimmer, but Trump is an ego maniac and is self serving and that is not what would make a good president. Someone who serves ones carnal desires is not what Christians should be looking for in a president. Trump does not have one ounce of humility. If I was to put him in Christian terms, I would call him the anti-Christ. And I am not saying that I believe that he is. That is just the closest description that he fits in biblical terms.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Apr 29, 2016 - 11:20am PT
What Klimmer doesn't realize is that Trump's hair covers his Mark of the Beast.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 29, 2016 - 11:47am PT
Fox's Benghazi "expert"...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/fox-news-analyst-accused-of-lying-about-cia-work-pleads-guilty-but-offers-no-mea-culpa/2016/04/29/cae84656-0bb7-11e6-a6b6-2e6de3695b0e_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_simmons-1105a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 29, 2016 - 11:53am PT
woman and LBGT equal rights.

The fact that you can say this shows that it's not me who has no sense of history, even recent history. Clinton has been finger-to-the-wind on this (as well as many other topics) for decades and has only very recently become the "champion" you speak of.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 29, 2016 - 11:59am PT
In other news Trumps has announced his vice presidential running mate will be...

Donald Trump.


I thought Eric would be The Donald's choice for Vice President. Eric seems to be more unhinged than Donald Jr., and more like his father.

Eric Trump said that torture, like waterboarding, takes place every day on college campuses and fraternity houses across the country.

He really is a chip off the old blockhead.

dirtbag

climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 12:00pm PT
And like dad, he is an elephant slayer.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 29, 2016 - 12:01pm PT
Madbolter, I think it is you that has no understanding of her history...keep the hate flowing buddy.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/09/05/20-years-later-hillary-clintons-beijing-speech-on-women-resonates/?_r=0


This was from 40 years ago...40 years ago Mad...do you understand that???


http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a40772/hillary-clinton-undercover-civil-rights/


On gays right Mad..."January 2000: At a news conference in White Plains, Clinton said, "Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time, and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman. But I also believe that people in committed gay marriages, as they believe them to be, should be given rights under the law that recognize and respect their relationship."

April 2000: Clinton again expressed support for civil unions. "I have supported the kind of rights and responsibilities that are being extended to gay couples in Vermont," she said.

July 2004: Clinton spoke on the Senate floor against a proposed federal amendment to ban same-sex marriage. (The amendment ultimately failed.) "


This is worth saving...From Madbolter:The fact that you can say this shows that it's not me who has no sense of history, even recent history. Clinton has been finger-to-the-wind on this (as well as many other topics) for decades and has only very recently become the "champion" you speak of.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 29, 2016 - 12:25pm PT
Hey Klimmer, how many of the Ten Commandments do you think The Donald has broken? I'd guess he hasn't killed anyone, but as for the rest ............

√ 1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
√ 2. You shall not make idols.
√ 3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
√ 4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
? 5. Honor your father and your mother.
? 6. You shall not murder.
√ 7. You shall not commit adultery.
√ 8. You shall not steal.
√ 9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
√ 10. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife (or your daughter) or their stuff.

And you still think he's anointed by The Big Guy?

Edited: I forgot about him coveting his daughter, sorry.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 29, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
California protesters are making Trump fight for all those delegates that will put him over the top, and put Ted Cruz to sleep for good.

Yesterday, minor riots, including destruction of a police car, took place in Costa Mesa, which is normally a pretty laid-back So Cal neighborhood for surfers. It's prior claim-to-fame was the site of the largest shopping mall on the West Coast.


http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Protests-break-out-as-Trump-speaks-in-Southern-Cal-7383020.php


The protesters are now gathering in large numbers at the GOP's California Convention at a hotel near the San Francisco airport. The police have shut he roads down, and are nervously monitoring the Stop Hate crowd for signs of potential detonation into massive violence against Trumpers.

Trump is supposed to arrive there, and give some sort of "look how big my dick is" speech, and then fly off in his Air Farce One 757.

I wish he would just stay away, and phone in his speech. Or the GOP just give him his delegates as a bribe to keep him from visiting the area.





Ted Cruz thinks that hooking up with Carly Fiorina is going to give his California game a big boost, because she was so well-liked and respected as the CEO of Hewlett-Packard.

O'Really.

Lucifer in the Flesh is DemenTED.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 29, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
"Only recently championing women's rights." ????

Baloney.

But you go ahead and worry about where you think she "was".

I'll take where she "is".

So, let's add gender resentment to the racial and economic resentment.
Sounds like Trump's game plan.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
These illiberal left (Trump protesters) better not f*#k things up and get Trump elected.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
Yeah HFCS, it's not helpful.
John M

climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 12:41pm PT
did Trump pay 30 guys to protest and go trash a police car? ;-) heh heh..

just messing folks...
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 29, 2016 - 12:47pm PT
I wouldn't be too sure about him not killing someone
Norton

Social climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 12:58pm PT
damn it !!!

it had to happen, one or two morons fly a Mexican flag at last night's Trump protest
and the media fixes on that, the right wing say its proof! that those protestors are just dirty "illegals" who love Mexico more than the good old USA

remember Occupy Wall Street?

same damn thing happened, a couple idiots piss and poop in the streets and cause a scene and the media dismissed the entire OWS ideology as dirty agitators

over and over the few keep wrecking things for the many, like pain pill abusers...
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 29, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
police themselves?
John M

climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
Its not the few wrecking it for the many. Its the many who concentrate on what the few do and the media capitalizing on that.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 29, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
Lost in LIBERLAND!

protesters block all back roads preventing TRUMPA entering, so TRUMP pulls over on 101 hikes up hill into back door of repub convention.. noce try sick f*#ks drink more KOOL AID!
dirtbag

climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
Yeah, bring up lewinsky. That's an issue voters care about deeply

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:32pm PT
Klimmer...Hillary forgave him, but you and your christians buddies can't seem to find it in godly hearts to do so.


Hypocrite.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:39pm PT
No one cared 17 years ago, just right wing lunatics. Clinton left office with very high poll numbers. And no one cares now. And in any event, you're blaming her for something he did.

dirtbag

climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
And frankly, your concern over lying is a lie. If you hated liars you wouldn't lie with the lying liar with orange hair, Donald. He's a big f*#king liar, you're just brainwashed.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:49pm PT
Trump cheated on his wife Ivana and lied about it for Months!!!!!

Ivana claimed he RAPED HER

And there was a death at one of his construction sites, so using Klimmer's logic, we can say he has murdered another human

will this change any minds?
no, those minds are Closed


there was no proof the Bill Clinton had actual vaginal penetration with Monica, so he didn't lie, sex means intercourse.
They were both consenting adults, there was no forced anything.

And after these years, we have to listen to the liars lie about it again.
Pathetic
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:54pm PT
They do care about it. They care about character.

And its all about character? Any thoughts that Lewinsky was a victim and perhaps a politican of the high "character" of which you speak would have some compassion for her having tried to get on with her life and just leave it alone? Nooooo.....lets continue to badger herby bringing her up every time they want to slam the Clintons.

SHE was the victim. But let's keep politicizing it. Nice character.


Susan
dirtbag

climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
No Craig... Not Donald! Never ever Donald!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 29, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
Trump brags about how he is totally corrupt with his business dealing.

He cheats, steals, bullies, he promotes hate speech.

Do you not know that the Republicans have been smearing Hillary for 30 years with lies.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Apr 29, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
But Trump's 'lil smokie is nothin' compared to Hillary's fat flag-swole Israelite-lovin' jingoistic package Klimmer. Would somebody please think of the Jewish children? Would somebody please think of the micropeen driving the orange bouffant and its retractive, non-Israelite ME-neutralist proclivity?!

Coincidentally, this is why I will be voting the Trump ticket with you Klimmer, given an HRC v Trump ballot. That and the whole Trump "women = pigs," May-December, wanna-f*#k-my-daughter stance. It's like boy's club but way more aggro, out of the backroom style. [Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
You have to understand Klimmer

He is a very, very obsessed with Bible large primate

and the bible is very clear about women and how men should treat women

like dirt, like whores, rape your wife if she talks back, I could post the passages

and this is Klimmer's REAL problem with Hillary Clinton, she is a woman

no way in hell he would vote for a woman, they are bible second class

he knows this but dances around by pretending his objection to Hillary is "moral"
as if she is "unethical" and a "liar" - all this while he ignores his candidate Trump's many, many, many lies, so many he was given the highest lying award from Polifact

You have been outed, Klimmer, you are cheap bigot
John M

climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
Trump is a criminal mastermind too..He just does it in the open because humans are so corrupt now.

He openly says he cheats to get what he wants, and people just eat it up.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 29, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
Hillary has paid all of her parking tickets. I wonder about Donald?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 29, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
So Klimmer, Clinton lies all the time = bad; Trump lies all the time = good. Have I got that right?

Bill Clinton cheated on his wife and got a blowjob from Monica = Hillary is guilty of ........ what exactly? Turning the other cheek and forgiving him? Have I got that right? Isn't that what Jesus would do?

Trump cheats on his wife = okay by you. Because ......what? You mentioned it earlier and here it is - cognitive dissonance in spades.

Finally, Jim, Clinton was impeached, he just wasn't tried and wasn't convicted.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 29, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
The protests are not helpful when they become violent. These people are not under the control of a candidate or party. They've listened to months of Trump's hateful bigotry and want to express how unwelcome his message is. But, do it peacefully. The images on TV are not good. The last thing Trump needs is sympathy.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 29, 2016 - 05:41pm PT
... Hillary is guilty of ........ what exactly?

She is guilty of protecting a rapist (Bill C.) and threatening the victims with retaliation.....

Remember... we are supposed to believe the victims.

Bill Clinton and Bill Cosby.... two wonderful, lovable people.

We need Gloria to step in.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 29, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
Jim, the House of Representatives sends a bill of impeachment to the Senate; the Senate tries the case and either convicts or not. The impeachment part is the Bill of Impeachment from the House; the Senate did not convict.

The Constitution of the United States

Article 1, Section 2, Clause 5

The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

Article 1, Section 3, Clauses 6 and 7

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried the Chief Justice shall preside; And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Judgement in Cases of Impreachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgement and Punishment, according to Law.

Article 2, Section 4

The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Clear enough?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 29, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
Correct. He was impeached by the House but not convicted by the Senate.
dirtbag

climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 05:53pm PT
She is guilty of protecting a rapist (Bill C.) and threatening the victims with retaliation.....

First I've heard of that. That's a very serious allegation.

What's the evidence?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 29, 2016 - 06:05pm PT
No worries Jim. The impeachment process is a two step deal:

1) The House decides to impeach the president for 'high crimes and misdemeanors" or a blowjob. They vote to impeach the guy/gal. At this point the president is 'impeached' but not convicted. The impeachment bill is sent to the Senate who, by Article 1, Section 3, Clauses 6 and 7:

"The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments." The key here is that the Senate tries the impeachment.

2) The Senate meets, hears the evidence, then either finds the president guilty or not guilty with a two thirds majority necessary for conviction.

Clinton was impeached by the House, but not convicted by the Senate. He was not removed from office as he was innocent of the charges (or, at least, 'not guilty').
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 29, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
Where were you guys when W's whole crew needed to be tried for treason.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Apr 29, 2016 - 06:59pm PT
^serious texas bbq, duh^
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 29, 2016 - 07:05pm PT
I Googled it and all I got was wacko-fringe websites. Figures.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
PotatoHead, please join with myself, guyman, Klimmer and pyro in voting for Donald Trump?
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Apr 29, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
Amy Goodman of Democracy Now on How the media ruins elections...

https://video.fsjc1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xft1/v/t43.1792-2/13044656_554741804695862_426135255_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjE1MDAsInJsYSI6MTc5OSwidmVuY29kZV90YWciOiJzdmVfaGQifQ%3D%3D&rl=1500&vabr=512&oh=84cd34ad4d901a3fee3bf97d8db08ba6&oe=572450D6
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 29, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
Potato, somehow you missed the memo, dude. Place has been pretty civil once the forum jerks got sent to the corner. Just a few holdouts like you remaining. Tick, tick...

About 3 people in the country think Hillary made a racist comment. Apparently, one lives in Idaho.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Apr 30, 2016 - 08:32am PT
If Trump is nominated, the GOP must keep him out of the White House

By George F. Will
Washington Post Opinion writer

April 29 at 7:13 PM 


Donald Trump’s damage to the Republican Party, although already extensive, has barely begun. Republican quislings will multiply, slinking into support of the most anti-conservative presidential aspirant in their party’s history. These collaborationists will render themselves ineligible to participate in the party’s reconstruction.

Ted Cruz’s announcement of his preferred running mate has enhanced the nomination process by giving voters pertinent information. They already know the only important thing about Trump’s choice: His running mate will be unqualified for high office because he or she will think Trump is qualified.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 30, 2016 - 08:39am PT
It might be worth him getting elected just to get this apocalypse started
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Apr 30, 2016 - 09:06am PT

Apr 30, 2016 - 08:32am PT
If Trump is nominated, the GOP must keep him out of the White House

By George F. Will
Washington Post Opinion writer

April 29 at 7:13 PM 


Donald Trump’s damage to the Republican Party, although already extensive, has barely begun. Republican quislings will multiply, slinking into support of the most anti-conservative presidential aspirant in their party’s history. These collaborationists will render themselves ineligible to participate in the party’s reconstruction.

Ted Cruz’s announcement of his preferred running mate has enhanced the nomination process by giving voters pertinent information. They already know the only important thing about Trump’s choice: His running mate will be unqualified for high office because he or she will think Trump is qualified.

And THIS is why the Republican Party is self destructing.

They are in denial of their own history.

Republican Aspirants who were more anti- conservative:

Abraham Lincoln.
Theodore Roosevelt.
Dwight Eisenhower
Richard Nixon

These are just some who actually won the office.


As to Raphael Cruz choosing Carly Fiorina as his running mate giving Republicans pertinent information - It is too late. The pertinent information is that Ted allied with somebody who won't win votes in November. Even if the party machinery takes the nomination from Trump with back room deals, they have no candidate that will get more that 40% of the vote even if the Democrats actually ran the party mascot.

I think it's a ringing cry that the far right is out of touch with its own constituency. The Donald is actually closer to the historic party.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 30, 2016 - 09:19am PT
George Will - now that Buckley's dead poor George is like the last of the Mohicans within the gop. The newly fringe-right gop will soon be strapping him in a straight jacket and carting him off as just another raving leftist.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 30, 2016 - 10:53am PT
The republican party is being taken for a huge ride by a spoiled little rich kid, so funny to see this happen to them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/03/trumps-false-claim-he-built-his-empire-with-a-small-loan-from-his-father/

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Apr 30, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
This is a little easier:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/03/03/trumps-false-claim-he-built-his-empire-with-a-small-loan-from-his-father/
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 30, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
As far as we can determine, the assets distributed to Fred C. Trump’s descendants before and after his death in 1999 has not been revealed

fixed it for you!

so yeah false claim from some newspaper article!!!!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Apr 30, 2016 - 01:58pm PT
You know what that George Will article means, don't you?

George Will is going to vote for Hillary, or shirk his Constitutional right!


Bwahahahahhahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!69
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 30, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 30, 2016 - 02:14pm PT
They obviously needed to build a real wall there and make Donald pay for it.
Norton

Social climber
Apr 30, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
Protestors!

But why, pyro, are so many people of all ages, sexes, and races so damn opposed to Donald?

Any idea?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Apr 30, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
Violent protesters..? Where..? That looked like the Secret Service were performing a code blue diaper change on the Donald who had just taken a Trump...
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Apr 30, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
Wouldn't that be Code Brown?
Norton

Social climber
Apr 30, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
ah but Johnny, Donald was just dropping a friend off at the pool.....
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 30, 2016 - 03:34pm PT
That Washington Post article about how Donald Trump was financed by his father is hilarious.

Trump is a buffoon, and a duplicitous self-promoter.

The mainstream media has only revealed a tiny tip of the Trump iceberg.

Trump is such piece of work, all you have to do is enter his name and any other word into Google, and you'll find numerous tales of pure sordidness.





Trump didn't cheat on his wife with only Marla Maples. Trump was one of the most pan-handled of the New York City hot-shot lotharios in the '80s. His wife Ivana tolerated his infidelity because the option was being raped in her own bedroom.

When his affair with Marla Maples became widely publicized (Best Sex I've Ever Had) Ivana decided that she couldn't take it anymore, and she divorced him. Ivana is now a notorious NYC cougar.


The only reason Trump married Marla Maples was because she refused to get an abortion. Trump's daughter Tiffany has been out of the spotlight, living quietly in Los Angeles with her mother.

Tiffany Trump has recently been making appearances at her father's campaign rallies, which I can imagine is a very exciting experience for a privileged and vapid young woman.







Trump's ludicrous position as the GOP's front runner is just one symptom of a serious national malady.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Apr 30, 2016 - 03:53pm PT
Add the KKK of Virginia to the list of Trump boosters...

In a sit-down interview with a Richmond news station, the Imperial Wizard of the Rebel Brigade Knights of the Ku Klux Klan said Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump is his candidate for President.

The KKK leader, identified by WWBT only as “Imperial Wizard,” also insisted his organization is not a hate group, telling the station’s black anchor, “We don’t hate anyone.”

Asked who he was supporting in the 2016 race, the wizard replied: “I think Donald Trump would be best for the job.”

"The reason a lot of Klan members like Donald Trump is because a lot of what he believes in, we believe in. We want our country to be safe,” he said.

The leader went on to say if Trump were to drop out, he would back Ohio Gov. John Kasich before Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), saying Cruz “is not an American citizen” because he was born in Canada.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 30, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
Cruz “is not an American citizen” because he was born in Canada.


It is astonishing that a group like the KKK can be so ignorant and self-unaware of how stupid they come across to the rest of the world.


Ironically, the KKK's official position is that they possess some sort of hidden or rare wisdom, which they are anxious to share with others.







Mama always said, "Stupid is as stupid does" - - - Forrest Trump

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 30, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
How ironic that the gop so feared the tea party but, in the end, the tea party's own rhetoric resulted not in the nomination of a tea partier, but of a carpetbagger.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 30, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
Mama always said, "Highly dysfunctional is as highly dysfunctional does". - - - Forrest Trump

Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Apr 30, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
I like round numbers. Like 0, the number of days that Dump will be president.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Apr 30, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
It'll go nowhere. The Donald has too many skeletons in his own closet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/25/gop-senator-calls-out-donald-trumps-affair-in-lengthy-tweetstorm/
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Apr 30, 2016 - 09:12pm PT
I was looking at last year's clown car. The Donald didn't even rate a face, just a sticker on the front tire.



Wasn't even here for this group shot.


And this is the party that's going to get behind him and put him in the Oval Office?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 1, 2016 - 07:03am PT
Jim, your analysis is fairly accurate. Correction: a majority of REPUBLICANS want the televangelist spewer. Normal people do not. And we still are in the majority.

Be nervous, sure, but have a little faith in your southern neighbors.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 1, 2016 - 08:04am PT
Let's see the actual proof that Bill Clinton raped Monica.
There is none, zero, nadda

It's just another fabricated lie to work up their base of evil worshippers

and every time some idiotic Right Winger brings it up, it makes them look like a pathetic scum bag
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 1, 2016 - 08:34am PT
The Trump protestors are Latinos and other immigrants that are protesting against being deported.

They aren't organized by any political group, they just hate Trump and what he has said he will do if elected.

They aren't Republicans, that's for sure, why would anyone vote for being deported, lower wages, less jobs, higher health care costs, more pollution, more wars, more conflict, more homeless and being scammed by evil charlatans (the entire GOP field).

So to say they are Bernie or Hillary supporters is BS,
it has nothing to do with Bernie or Hillary, they vote Democratic out of self preservation.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 1, 2016 - 09:01am PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 1, 2016 - 11:11am PT
The Trump protestors are Latinos and other immigrants that are protesting against being deported


Craig the Fry your WRONG the protest people are American Haters!

http://www.ijreview.com/2016/04/596059-anti-trump-protesters-in-california/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=owned&utm_campaign=ods&utm_term=ijamerica&utm_content=america
kattz

climber
May 1, 2016 - 11:27am PT
They aren't Republicans, that's for sure, why would anyone vote for being deported, lower wages, less jobs, higher health care costs, more pollution, more wars, more conflict, more homeless and being scammed by evil charlatans (the entire GOP field).

So to say they are Bernie or Hillary supporters is BS,
it has nothing to do with Bernie or Hillary, they vote Democratic out of self preservation

So, what will "democratic" future look like? I bet like California, "true" liberal state, for the most part. Let's see...booming economy in places like Bay area...no one can afford to buy > 1M house (Chinese mafia freely buying these for cash en masse, while a US person has to explain every small cash deposit)... adult professionals are living in "rental rooms" like college kids....income inequality is at the highest in the US, pretty much...increasing air pollution, horrible traffic...Prevously existing Caucasian (and Black, by the way) populations are pretty much gone, replaced by imported labor. Gentrification combined with a lot of racism, which goes pretty much all ways possible. Illegals replacing other populations in many places in CA.
Drive a little away and there's horribly polluted Central Valley with its high crime, some armpits of the US are definitely there. Drive a little further away and there're absolutely no jobs, still insane housing prices (as well-to-do Hardcore Democrats from the Coast need their 2nd and 3rd houses and investment properites), at best drug economy in some places. Great "future".
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 1, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
Klimmer, what states is Trump going to turn blue???

Simple question.
John M

climber
May 1, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
He does really care about America.

When an egomaniac represents caring...

Welcome to hell
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 1, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
He does really care about America.

I would hope so sounds like some of the hippie comments above are anti- American!

did you guys go and protest the Donald while he was in L.A locker?


He's a racist, lying prick...


You might as well go ahead and get used to the fact that Trump is never going to be President of the United States...

and ur an IDIOT for speaking like ly'n TED!

When an egomaniac represents caring...

Welcome to hell

how old are you John M?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 1, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
He's a reality TV star and real estate developer. His qualifications for President are zero. None. He's an idiot and dangerous. If you cared anything about your family and others you'd reject this buffoon.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 1, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
He's tearing down America from the inside by making it morally wrong, militarily weak, and the worse foreign policy ever. Let's give Iran the bomb. Smart move Clinton/Kerry/Hillary

Haven't you heard that Fox News Lies
That's all they do, you can't trust a single thing they say,
it's all Republican Propaganda, they are the media arm of the Republican party.
They are the equivalent of Nazi TV, with the sole purpose of misleading the public with propaganda so they can control minds.

They are the ones tearing down America from the inside, dividing America with lies and misinformation.

So you think Mittens would have done a better job than Obama?
Factually, Obama has had the best foreign policy since Clinton and Carter.

And how does having a treaty with Iran to stop making the bomb and allow inspections equal giving them the bomb??
It equals Fox News Lies, that's what it equals.

Obama stopped Iran from having the Bomb, but the Republicans lie about and say they his treaty will give them the bomb because they are morally bankrupt, and would lie about so they can start a war with Iran

Is that what you want, a war with Iran?
That's what the Republicans want, along the right wing nut jobs in Israel.

Bush destroyed the middle East, and Obama is just trying to mop up the mess without starting WWIII
Which I applaud


Want to find out that Trump is a racist?
Here are the facts
Google "Trump racist"

kattz

climber
May 1, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
Of course Trump is racist.

All White people are racist. Don't you now that by now or did propaganda machine still not drill that in, yet?
He also married a white woman, to make it worse.
To make it even worse, he never apologized for being white.
A reason for protest!!

:))
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 1, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
Klimmer
That's 100% BS

You're quoting liars
Norton

Social climber
May 1, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
Katz stated:

All White people are racist

I believe Katz is right on this, my own feeling is that all species and races within species are bigoted in the sense that they prefer to be with those that firstly look like themselves...

dogs want to be with other dogs rather than hang with donkeys,..

but humans are different in that we are, mostly, intellectually evolved enough to understand that races are all very much alike within our own species in basic initial and innate intellect

the problem is with those of us who do not see this and so wear their racism in the open rather than hide it like others more consciously choose to do, myself included
kattz

climber
May 1, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
SHEEP?
Year 2040...a class action suit had been filed as sheep weren't allowed to re-register as "donkeys" for the state primaries. A popular candidate is being accused of speciesism due to unfairly favoring humans, cats and dogs. Another candidate has to fight bias due to his species change, quote "One morning I woke up knowing I'm not human....I am a donkey. And nothing will stop me and the fight for my freedom!"
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 1, 2016 - 06:09pm PT
Conservatives more racist than liberals, says government-funded study

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/18/conservatives-more-racist-than-liberals-says-government-funded-study/#ixzz47SMLm5MW
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 1, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
Anyone that truly believes Donald Trump would make a good President is either...

super ignorant...

nuts...

or both...





Hillary Clinton is the next President of the United States...

Can't bring yourself to claim she'll be a good president either can you?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 1, 2016 - 07:36pm PT
I'm sure he cheats on his current wife, he is a serial adulterer

Trump engaged in a highly publicized affair with actress Marla Maples while he was married to his first wife, Ivana Trump, and has written about having relationships with married women.

“If I told the real stories of my experiences with women, often seemingly very happily married and important women, this book would be a guaranteed best-seller,”

Trump wrote in his book “The Art of the Comeback.” Trump also wrote in “Think Big and Kick Ass” that he’s been with married women: “Beautiful, famous, successful, married — I’ve had them all, secretly, the world’s biggest names.”

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/430381/donald-trump-ben-sasse-twitter-question-marital-infidelity



The gullibility of Klimmer (and the rest of the Trump supporters) is just astounding
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 1, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
On the bright side! I have never had both headers & siders from ASPCA on ST before tonight.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 1, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
Yeah, but you still can't bring yourself to say it though. It's ok, I don't blame you.


EDIT: ^^^^ I wonder why my header and footer never has ASPCA on it? Lol
zBrown

Ice climber
May 1, 2016 - 08:12pm PT


I got this today after taking a baby possum to the rehab center.

Norton

Social climber
May 1, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
F*#k political correctness. As one of his supporters told an obtuse reporter at a rally when asked if he supported Trump: “Hell yeah! He’s no-bullsh#t. All balls. F*#k you all balls. That’s what I’m about.” And therein lies the appeal of tyrants from the beginning of time. F*#k you all balls. Irrationality with muscle.

The racial aspect of this is also unmissable. When the enemy within is Mexican or Muslim, and your ranks are extremely white, you set up a rubric for a racial conflict. And what’s truly terrifying about Trump is that he does not seem to shrink from such a prospect; he relishes it.

For, like all tyrants, he is utterly lacking in self-control. Sleeping a handful of hours a night, impulsively tweeting in the early hours, improvising madly on subjects he knows nothing about, Trump rants and raves as he surfs an entirely reactive media landscapehttp://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 1, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
Really Klimmer

"Also Bernie supporters don't like Hillary. They have more in common with Trump."

You honestly think that? You think Sanders people will vote for The Donald? You're f*#king nuts. Take some Lithium or whatever. And what about the Germans colonizing the Moon and Mars? Better check the 'Massive Ark On The Moon" thread.

Edit: Klimmer, I just read your comment above. You are seriously screwed up; get some help, you are approaching the edge and it's a long way down.............

Re-edit: Klimmer, I was a Bernie supporter from the get go. I gave money and wished for the best. There is no way in hell I would vote for The Donald. You are living in cloud cuckoo land, as the Germans would say
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 1, 2016 - 08:51pm PT
Union Representing 16,000 Border Agents Endorses Trump


That is because Trump has said he will spend more money to secure the border. The Union is supporting the man who promises to turn on the money spigot for its members.


It's typical pork-barrel politics.


The California Correctional Officers Union spent heavily to oppose the 1995 medical marijuana initiative.

Prison guards' union wanted to keep sending people went to prison, because that represented job security for its members.



Farmers vote for the pork-barrel guy who promises crop subsidies.


Teachers vote for the pork-barrel guy who promises more spending for education.


Rich people vote for the pork-barrel guy who promises corporate welfare.

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 1, 2016 - 09:09pm PT
You guys and gals just don't get it. Please listen. You rant about stuff without a clue. You make stuff up. You have no evidence.

haha, that's funny.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 1, 2016 - 09:15pm PT
Thanks, the Fet.
dirtbag

climber
May 1, 2016 - 09:32pm PT
The guy believes Noah's ark was found on the moon and the illuminati rules the world. Of course he blindly loves trump and is very partial to right wing materials. Not worth the time arguing with him.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 1, 2016 - 09:52pm PT
An opinion and a good read. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-trump.html
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 1, 2016 - 10:03pm PT
^^^^^^^^^ READ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 2, 2016 - 08:05am PT
That is because Trump has said he will spend more money to secure the border. The Union is supporting the man who promises to turn on the money spigot for its members

Tom what about the Coal Miners union? is Donald going to build a wall in the mine!?!



An opinion and a good read.


ZZZZZ article nothing but lets slam Donald..
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 2, 2016 - 08:10am PT
Tom what about the Coal Miners union? is Donald going to build a wall in the mine!?!

Dude, are you truly that dense?

Think before you post, then maybe people will give your words some thought. Or, just keep writing things that make zero sense. Your choice. :)
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 2, 2016 - 08:20am PT
Not only is she the most qualified...

it's also cool as hell to once again be watching barriers be broken...

Dude, are you truly that dense?

Think before you post, then maybe people will give your words some thought. Or, just keep writing things that make zero sense. Your choice.


who is the denser of them all probably locker the braden
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 2, 2016 - 08:23am PT
Think before you post, then maybe people will give your words some thought. Or, just keep writing things that make zero sense. Your choice. :)

Its generally frowned upon when you claim the mental high ground but in point of fact you're the one that can't wrap your head around the hypocrisy of a Dem claiming to be up-in-arms that Donald has bought a union through pork barrel politics.

Sorry that you don't make the mental equivalent of "You must be this tall to ride" on this thread.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 2, 2016 - 08:24am PT
Thanks for proving my point!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 2, 2016 - 08:25am PT
BBBBEEEENNNNGGGGHHHHAAAAAAZZZZZIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!69
















































!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!69
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2016 - 08:26am PT
You forgot Vince Foster.
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2016 - 08:30am PT
Hillary is very disliked, trump is outright hated, and that difference will likely determine the election.

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/2/11565194/clinton-trump-unfavorable
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 2, 2016 - 08:41am PT
You Republicans feed on LIES

Christopher Stevens wasn't raped and cattle prodded
Right wing nut jobs made that up

The photo above is him being rescued by locals and brought to a hospital after the fire.

here are the facts

During the attack a fire was set against the main consulate building with three Americans inside-- Stevens, Sean Smith, and a security officer.[20] According to U.S. officials, the security officer escaped and the staff found Smith dead. However, the staff were unable to locate Stevens before being driven from the building under small-arms fire.[20] Stevens apparently became separated from his staff while trying to escape to the roof and was allegedly overcome by smoke inhalation.[21][22] Local civilians found Stevens and brought him to the Benghazi Medical Centre in a state of cardiac arrest. Medical personnel tried to resuscitate him, but he was pronounced dead at about 2 a.m. local time on September 12, 2012.[20]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Christopher_Stevens

Do you enjoy being the fool and repeating lies

Some of us already looked into the facts, and when you repeat lies to make your point, it makes you look really stupid.

So yes, every time you try and remind of us about Benghazi, we will know you are Sick and twisted LIARS that will do any immoral act to sway minds.
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2016 - 08:46am PT
Yep.

It's frustrating: you can debunk lies a thousand times and they still survive.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 2, 2016 - 08:49am PT
here are the facts

And just who was there of any credibility to provide these facts? As far as I am concerned
the only facts that matter are these two:
1. Benghazi was a horrendous phukup.
2. The buck stopped on her desk. Period.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 2, 2016 - 08:50am PT
Donald Trump in Indiana Says China Is 'Raping' America

WTF!!!!!!!!!!

Is that anyway for a leader to talk about other super powers?

He doesn't have a diplomatic bone in his body, he's a tyrant, a goon, a thug, and complete a-hole

We can't trust him as dog catcher.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-trump-indiana-says-china-raping-america-n565721
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 2, 2016 - 08:54am PT
The Republicans wouldn't approve spending for Embassy security

There was nothing Hillary could do during the attack, there was no support within range to counter the attack.

after the attack, investigations were performed and they apprehended the perpetrators,
the leader said he saw the revolts against the video at the embassy and decided to conduct a terrorist attack on the it.

End of story


Shall we blame all 3000 deaths of 911 on Bush and the Republican Party???
Why didn't they stop it, it was in F-ing Downtown NY City
The Buck falls on Republicans, they failed, and then killed many more Americans on illegal wars
So many dead, and all because of complete incompetence.

Do you guys have any perspective?, you should be saying "I will never vote for another Republican in my life, they are completely without shame and have done nothing except destroy our nation from the inside out.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 2, 2016 - 08:56am PT
You mean Wikipedia isn't "facts"???? Lol
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 2, 2016 - 09:00am PT
Reality and truth is quite the shape shifter, ain't it, Repubs?

You guys are quite happy to spin it any way you like to suit your needs.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 2, 2016 - 09:03am PT
I love the fact that the election is going to come down to Hillary vs. Trump, and there is a HUGE part of the Republican electorate who cannot stand Trump, and will be unable to support him, no matter how important 'Party Unity' becomes.

So they will be truly fooked: stay at home on election day, check the box for their own Party's despised candidate, or vote for Hillary.

That quandary makes me giddy with irony!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 2, 2016 - 09:12am PT
Is that similar to the irony of the Dems that hate Hillary and will vote for Trump out of spite? Or is that different?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 2, 2016 - 09:18am PT
Dr F, you would have hated Harry Truman just as you hate the word responsibility unless it
can be used for yer partisan enjoyment. Hillary was the de facto commander who sent her
troops on a useless suicide mission. She left them in an isolated outpost of no possible
value. The fact that nothing could be done for them was a given which is why she is culpable.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 2, 2016 - 09:34am PT
Benghazi is Propaganda at it's best. Using clever misdirection they focus on a tactical blunder and get mired in the details.

The much bigger issue is our tacit involvement in the Libyan uprisings of which Hillary played a key role as Secretary of State. Her zealotry for the uprisings and subsequent assasination which destabilized the entire region is the real crime. Like the Bush-monkey before her she is no different than sith-lord Cheney with a uterus.



HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 2, 2016 - 09:37am PT
Escopeta posted

Its generally frowned upon when you claim the mental high ground but in point of fact you're the one that can't wrap your head around the hypocrisy of a Dem claiming to be up-in-arms that Donald has bought a union through pork barrel politics.

Sorry that you don't make the mental equivalent of "You must be this tall to ride" on this thread.

Because intellectual consistency is Escopeta's hallmark.

Escopeta posted
Is that similar to the irony of the Dems that hate Hillary and will vote for Trump out of spite? Or is that different?

Are you trying to tell me that America is still capable of misogyny? In 2016? I'm shocked!


dirt posted
It's frustrating: you can debunk lies a thousand times and they still survive.

Worse yet, the evidence points to debunking them actually reinforcing people's belief in them :(
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 2, 2016 - 09:40am PT
The embassy in Benghazi was a CIA outpost, Hillary had no control of the CIA's agenda

Stevens wanted to be there, he said so

Is Hillary supposed to anticipate every uprising of anger against America and evacuate everyone just in case of a terrorist attack?

There is zero logic for any of these arguments you guys have against Hilary, it's ALL BS

Do you have no BS meter?
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2016 - 09:49am PT
The much bigger issue is our tacit involvement in the Libyan uprisings of which Hillary played a key role as Secretary of State. Her zealotry for the uprisings and subsequent assasination which destabilized the entire region is the real crime. Like the Bush-monkey before her she is no different than sith-lord Cheney with a uterus.

I'm a Hillary supporter, but I agree with a lot of this (though I'm skeptical of the sith lord part).
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 2, 2016 - 09:53am PT
Trump is riling up his ill-informed rally support base with accusations that China is *raping* the United States.

Forbes magazine provides a little insight into the US/China trade partnership. (Note: Ad=Blocker must be disabled to get to read the story)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/05/02/donald-trump-claims-china-is-raping-america-hes-wrong-and-heres-why/#48ea1b986da3
Norton

Social climber
May 2, 2016 - 09:59am PT
It is time to Stand Up and Be Counted!!

So let us review, who has posted their intent to vote for Donald Trump?

We have guyman, potatohead, Klimmer, pyro, and Cosmic are proud supporters.

Anyone else, i miss someone?

What do all these white males have in common do you suppose?


HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 2, 2016 - 10:01am PT
Craig posted
Do you have no BS meter?

You have to ask that of a Trump supporter?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 2, 2016 - 10:02am PT
Hillary didn't have anything to do with the intervention of Libya
so all that BS is WRONG

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

UN Security Council Resolution 1973

Date
17 March 2011

Voting summary 10 voted for
None voted against
5 abstained



United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973, on the situation in Libya, is a measure that was adopted on 17 March 2011. The Security Council resolution was proposed by France, Lebanon, and the United Kingdom.[1][2]

Ten Security Council members voted in the affirmative (Bosnia and Herzegovina, Colombia, Gabon, Lebanon, Nigeria, Portugal, South Africa, and permanent members France, the United Kingdom, and the United States). Five (Brazil, Germany, and India, and permanent members China and Russia) abstained, with none opposed.[3]

The resolution formed the legal basis for military intervention in the Libyan Civil War, demanding "an immediate ceasefire" and authorizing the international community to establish a no-fly zone and to use all means necessary short of foreign occupation to protect civilians.[4]
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 2, 2016 - 10:04am PT
What do all these white males have in common do you suppose?

They post on Supertopo?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 2, 2016 - 10:06am PT
The much bigger issue is our tacit involvement in the Libyan uprisings of which Hillary played a key role as Secretary of State. Her zealotry for the uprisings and subsequent assasination which destabilized the entire region is the real crime. Like the Bush-monkey before her she is no different than sith-lord Cheney with a uterus.

I'm a Hillary supporter, but I agree with a lot of this (though I'm skeptical of the sith lord part).

The 'choices' presented are garbage hence the conundrum. You can pick quasi-human garbage pile A or pile B.

How anyone could support either vile pile fascinates me.

The only 'upside' to Trump is he's likely not killed as many people. Yet.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 2, 2016 - 10:08am PT
I'm a Hillary supporter, but I agree with a lot of this (though I'm skeptical of the sith lord part).


What, you don't think she has a uterus?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 2, 2016 - 10:11am PT
Basically, we can now assume that anything a right winger uses as a talking point is a lie

BS, propaganda, misinformation, Wrong, unfactual, created in a think tank by professional liars, out of context, misleading etc.
They have an entire industry of creating lies to dupe right wingers and to use it against the other side.

It's quite sad that one side divides America with the use of lies as their weapon.

Just look above, even after the facts are presented, they still blame Hillary.

They don't like the truth, they fight against the facts, they like the lies better,
I guess it's part of their moral code.
They call it patriotism, what a crock of sh#t.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 2, 2016 - 10:24am PT
Basically, we can now assume that anything a right winger uses as a talking point is a lie


Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and other right-wing propagandists have normalized a situation where telling the truth is considered to be obsolete and counter-productive.

The right wing talking heads begin with a partisan message they want to tell, and then they shape-shift facts to conform to the message.



In the old days, journalists would gather facts first, and write the story later.

Now, these agenda-focused "journalists" concoct their story first, and then twist and spin the facts to support their fraudulent narrative.




In the final days, the last shall be first, and the first shall be last - Dementhians 3:21

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 2, 2016 - 10:33am PT
Craig,

Your usage of "right and left" IS propaganda. You're falling for the same gimmick in the illusion of a choice.

Red vs Blue. Divide and conquer. Fit everyone neatly into this tribe or that tribe and spin.

You're right about an entire industry creating lies.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 2, 2016 - 10:36am PT
You don't know what f*#k you are talking about "right vs. left"

So Hitler was the same as the Allied Forces?

The "they are all the same" is one of the biggest lies there is.

The extreme right wingers always try and seize control of power, and the left has to try to keep them from doing too much damage
WE don't want to fight, but we have to fight back for our freedoms.

We lost control, they have the power now through the media and are twisting the minds of millions using the same methods as Hitler did.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 2, 2016 - 10:39am PT
I'm weeping with laughter, Klimmer..."Fox & Friends", oh my.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 2, 2016 - 10:47am PT
Read it and weep Hillary supporters ... it's a criminal investigation by the DOJ ...

I've heard from good sources that an indictment is coming down any day now for the last year.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 2, 2016 - 10:50am PT
Klimmer, I am going to bump the Hillary thread, so you can post your HilHate stuff there. This is the TrumpTrashing thread....
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 2, 2016 - 10:52am PT
Thanks Happie
I getting tired off defending the lies against Hillary

I thought G-d didn't like his minions using lies against people
maybe Satan has disguised himself and taken hold of the flock
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2016 - 10:58am PT
You can pick quasi-human garbage pile A or pile B.

How anyone could support either vile pile fascinates me.

Mostly, I agree with her policy positions over trump or any republican also-ran.

Hillary has been through the right wing grinder and knows how to fight. The "corrupt Hillary" slander is just that: slander. She has probably been the most thoroughly investigated public figure of the last 20 years, and yet they've found...nothing. Indict and find guilty, or stfu. She is probably no more or less corrupt than any other politician of her stature. Is that a compliment? An indictment of our political system? Probably both. So mostly, the slander is just right wing poop slinging. The other part is probably Clinton fatigue.

Yep, the private email server and Goldman Sachs speeches showed poor judgment and were pretty stupid. Minus one, and minus one again for Hillary.

I also very much understand the aversion to dynasties. I share that, and that was one reason I voted for Obama in 2008.

But overall, I'm comfortable voting for her. If she makes some good court appointments, uses her executive and agency powers wisely, and puts a check on the kooks, then I think that would be a success. I have modest hopes. If I wanted an opportunity to vote for a perfect candidate, I'd run. But I ain't running.



And, I really, really don't like Trump.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 2, 2016 - 11:00am PT
Benghazi is Propaganda at it's best

you should be ashamed of yourself..

dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2016 - 11:04am PT
No, the congress should be ashamed for exploiting it for political points.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 2, 2016 - 11:05am PT
We have guyman, potatohead, Klimmer, pyro, and Cosmic are proud supporters.

Anyone else, i miss someone?

What do all these white males have in common do you suppose?


Norton I'm a "MOJADO" so your stat is WRONG..



Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 2, 2016 - 11:15am PT
Am I the only one that has reached the point of simply wishing Trump wins just to see if Craig Fry's head really does explode?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 2, 2016 - 11:19am PT
Am I the only one that has reached the point of simply wishing Trump wins just to see if Craig Fry's head really does explode?

he's been gone for a while..
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 2, 2016 - 11:20am PT
When Hillary wins
I will enjoy seeing your head's explode

if you have a head, maybe it's sh#t for brains
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 2, 2016 - 11:25am PT
So angry. Damn that rap music.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 2, 2016 - 11:31am PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 2, 2016 - 11:35am PT
The crudeness adds to the atheistic. Lol
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 2, 2016 - 12:24pm PT
And just who was there of any credibility to provide these facts?

Was it this guy:
Wayne Simmons, who presented himself as a national security expert and was a part of the conservative media push for a congressional investigation of the Benghazi attack, has pleaded guilty to federal fraud charges.

In an April 29 press release the Department of Justice noted that Simmons “falsely claimed he spent 27 years working for the Central Intelligence Agency” and had pleaded guilty “to major fraud against the government, wire fraud, and a firearms offense.”

The release further noted, “Simmons admitted he defrauded the government in 2008 when he obtained work as a team leader in the U.S. Army’s Human Terrain Systems program, and again in 2010 when he was deployed to Afghanistan as a senior intelligence advisor on the International Security Assistance Force’s Counterinsurgency Advisory and Assistance Team.”

Dana J. Boente, U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, said, “Simmons admitted he attempted to con his way into a position where he would have been called on to give real intelligence advice in a war zone. His fraud cost the government money, could have put American lives at risk, and was an insult to the real men and women of the intelligence community who provide tireless service to this country.”

Simmons was a frequent guest on Fox News, appearing on the network dozens of times purporting to be a former CIA operative. In those appearances, Simmons regularly criticized Democrats on foreign policy and national security issues. In one instance, he said, “If the Democrats come into power in the United States and re-employ their vision of defense for this country, we will have 9-1-1s unabated.”

Simmons was a member of Accuracy in Media’s (AIM) “Citizens' Commission” on Benghazi -- part of the conservative media’s ultimately successful push to get House Republicans to set up a panel to investigate the Benghazi attack. In that capacity, Simmons appeared on Fox and falsely claimed that the Obama administration had decided “to not rescue our former CIA operatives and our military” in Libya.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/04/29/wayne-simmons-right-wing-media-s-benghazi-expert-pleads-guilty-fraud/210145
Norton

Social climber
May 2, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
I don't know about Cosmic, guyman, pyro, Kilimmer and potatohead....

but I am going to vote for Donald Trump because it is a vote against the possibility of a woman being President

I just can't see a woman being strong enough to handle the pressures...it's a man's job and Donald Trump is a man's man

so all you limp LibTards can stop putting up all those stupid Benghazi "facts"

I don't give a damn about you thinking I will read them and change my mind about criminal Hillary

not gonna happen - a woman should not be President and neither should blacks, muslims or Kenyans

skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 2, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
Lewis Black ......

[Click to View YouTube Video]

edit; random I know, but that's just how I am...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 2, 2016 - 01:02pm PT
Yes, as a matter of FACT it does...

Are Locker and MB1 the same person?
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
I think it means that dems should not take anything for granted and treat him as a formidable yet vulnerable opponent.
brotherbbock

climber
Alta Loma, CA
May 2, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
I don't know about Cosmic, guyman, pyro, Kilimmer and potatohead....

but I am going to vote for Donald Trump because it is a vote against the possibility of a woman being President

I just can't see a woman being strong enough to handle the pressures...it's a man's job and Donald Trump is a man's man

so all you limp LibTards can stop putting up all those stupid Benghazi "facts"

I don't give a damn about you thinking I will read them and change my mind about criminal Hillary

not gonna happen - a woman should not be President and neither should blacks, muslims or Kenyans

+1 for the most bigoted, sexist, and racist thing I've read all day.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 2, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
Well then stop the RANDOM use of capitals to MAKE your POINT. lol....



EDIT: Braj
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 2, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
COVERED
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 2, 2016 - 01:47pm PT
DOOOOOD! Let the man express himself; it's a FREE country.
Norton

Social climber
May 2, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
+1 for the most bigoted, sexist, and racist thing I've read all day.

well, I AM a voting Republican, what else would you expect?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 2, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
Don Aldt Rump

Adult Learning Disabilities Team
Administrative and Logistics Delay Time

thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
May 2, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
Klimmer, you're totally right! It's just like the San Bernadino iPhone - treasure troves of dick pics hiding in plain sight but just out of reach of FOIA and the FBI!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 2, 2016 - 03:24pm PT

"Right now, we have hundreds of deals being negotiated all over the world by my company, and I deal with presidents, and I deal with prime ministers. I deal with everybody," Trump said on CNN. "I probably have more experience than virtually anybody looking at this office.

It's hard to conceive of how gullible someone would have to be to buy this nonsense. But, as witnessed here, some do.

Ask any of them to detail any Trump "plan". They can't because he can't.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 2, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
Trump supporter to Ted Cruz today in Indiana...

"Indiana don't want you."

Elsewhere, said another: "I've come around and I'll be supporting Trump. Trump reflects America."

Ho boy.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 2, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
Where's John E these days?

Has he checked out of the process, disgusted beyond belief in his own Party?

Better question for you, John: In a Hillary vs. Trump choice, which way will you go?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 2, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
Trump has disqualified himself from being President of the United States.

There is no way in hell that the GOP will allow him to be their nominee

and after his recent remark of "China is raping us"

it's just one of the hundreds of things he has said that makes him disqualified

Our Government will not allow him to President no matter How MANY Votes he getS


I have put my $10 bet down
zBrown

Ice climber
May 2, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
Ah ... the old Parallax View, eh.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 2, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
One more question for Klimmer bro

Why did Trump want Marla Maples to abort their child, Tiffany?

He ended up marrying her after she refused to abort during their scandalous affair.

He says now that he is Big on Pro-Life, very big

What about the all the other affairs he admits to

“If I told the real stories of my experiences with women, often seemingly very happily married and important women, this book would be a guaranteed best-seller,”

Trump wrote in his book “The Art of the Comeback.” Trump also wrote in “Think Big and Kick Ass” that he’s been with married women: “Beautiful, famous, successful, married — I’ve had them all, secretly, the world’s biggest names.”


And bragging about his adulteress affairs???
The world's biggest names???

Those are his actual words

Not very Presidential like
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
May 2, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
Not very Presidential like

Actually, quite Presidential. They just don't brag about it.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 2, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Speaking of fun...Hillary's inauguration! CNN broadcast beamed on the the NW face of Half Dome.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 2, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 2, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
Nothing is required of you!

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Thank you for your cooperation.
dirtbag

climber
May 2, 2016 - 08:51pm PT

Leaked: Hillary/Soros Behind Anti-Trump Violence!


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_d2Eq97_kmk


This is some really stupid sh#t.

Alex jones...lol.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
May 2, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
At first I was confused about "Yeshua HaMashiach" but then I realized it's totally a ween reference. I dig it Klimmer, the boognish is totally D-g's tool for doodie deeds. Crossed wires with you for a while there, but now I get it man. I get it.

[Click to View YouTube Video]


did you ever tune in to God, Ween, Satan: the Oneness, while riding the rift in a basket full of bunny eggs, dude? do you ever smell what I'm steppin' in? because I think you do. brothers from another mother. take it easy, walk with a light step bay-baay.

Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 2, 2016 - 09:15pm PT
Damn, locker, I'd like to see the RC Cola that goes with that.

tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
May 2, 2016 - 10:01pm PT
Check out this 1964 LBJ anti-Goldwater attack ad Confessions of a Republican

same as it ever was...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiG0AE8zdTU&list=PLzy43DNogESsG-EzzyTkEF51FZnboQGU0



Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 2, 2016 - 10:24pm PT
^^Here it is:

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Kinda leads into this:
[Click to View YouTube Video]

And this?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
MarkWestman

Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
May 2, 2016 - 11:37pm PT
G-d can use a donkey and make a donkey speak for his purposes.

Apparently so, for in Trump he's chosen a real jackass.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 3, 2016 - 05:03am PT


HOLLYWOOD for TRUMP!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 3, 2016 - 05:36am PT
"I'm so sick of these Hollywood morons pushing their politics on us. Oh wait, they agree with me? WOOT!!!"
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 3, 2016 - 05:59am PT
That would be an intriguing development for sure. However, the t-shirts are photo-shopped.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 3, 2016 - 06:11am PT
Kurt's a pretty hardcore libertarian. More likely a Cruz supporter.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 3, 2016 - 06:23am PT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 3, 2016 - 07:22am PT
Escopeta:

"If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people."

Thanks, great quote. Made my day.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 3, 2016 - 08:52am PT

You're welcome




Reagan looking at Cruz looking at Reagan. :America:

kattz

climber
May 3, 2016 - 09:06am PT
LOL the bill requiring women to register and be subject to military DRAFT had cleared house committee. Republicans has started it, to make a point against women in combat, thinking for sure Democrats will vote against drafting women...and underestimating the level of madness that is actually out there....and the INSANE had voted for it and it had passed. It's hard to tell who's the worst fool here, R or D...the country is taken over by the crazy, clearly.

I think presidential elections about 8 years from now are going to be very, very interesting....making 2016 look really tame.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 3, 2016 - 09:15am PT
Ouch lives!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 3, 2016 - 10:50am PT
The plot thickens. From the Daily Mail:

"'You know his father was with Lee Harvey Oswald prior to Oswald being shot,' Trump mentioned. 'The whole thing is ridiculous ... and nobody even brings it up. They don't even talk about that. That was reported and nobody talks about it.'

Trump was repeating tabloid claims made in this week's National Enquirer cover story, which links the elder Cruz to Oswald, who would go on to assassinate President John F. Kennedy."
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 3, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
Trump is always talking about out there conspiracy theories. Reminds me of someone on this thread...

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 3, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
If Snake Plissken is voting for Trump, that's good enough for me.




Ted Cruz has now been reduced to denying that his father was involved in the JFK assassination.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cruz-to-trump-my-father-is-not-linked-to-jfk-165004201.html





So far, Cruz hasn't denied that is father was integral to a pyramid scheme business that attempted to illegally sell vitamins in Mexico without government approval.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/30/us/politics/rafael-cruz-mannatech.html






Rafael Cruz is a total nutcase, who thinks his son Ted is some sort of "King" who is preordained to light the big fuse that will blow up the entire world, in accordance with the scriptures.

But, before that happens, the wealth of the wicked will be transferred to the righteous by "King Ted", according to Pastor Rafael Cruz, who says he is a "Christian Dominionist".

http://disinfo.com/2013/10/ted-cruzs-father-preaches-son-anointed-king-will-bring-end-time-transfer-wealth/




Trump and Cruz are both seriously insane.

It is poetic and ironic that their all-time hero, Ronald Reagan, defunded mental health care because it was a "waste of taxpayers' dollars".



Neither Trump nor Cruz are going to the White House.

Their destination is a White Room.
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2016 - 02:23pm PT
Ted Cruz has now been reduced to denying that his father was involved in the JFK assassination.

It's a step up, I suppose (?), from denying he is lucifer in the flesh.

No, the past week has not been kind to the senator.

Bwahahahahaha!!!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 3, 2016 - 03:00pm PT
Hillary has received more votes than The Donald in the Primary

That poll saying Trump would win against Hillary was total bunk

The General is along way off

Predictions are very difficult to make at this time
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 3, 2016 - 03:29pm PT

Wrong, Moose. So wrong.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 3, 2016 - 03:36pm PT
Bat Boy told me it was true, Cruz's father did the deed.
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
Moose, the election's outcome is by no means certain, but this should make you sleep better tonight:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/02/republicans-have-a-massive-electoral-map-problem-that-has-nothing-to-do-with-donald-trump/?tid=pm_politics_pop_b

The upshot is that if you look at the last six elections, 19 states representing 242 electoral college votes have always voted for the democratic nominee.

In the last six elections, states totaling 102 electoral votes have always voted republican. A republican nominee needs to find 168 electoral votes to win. A democratic nominee needs 28 votes. Hillary, right now, has a substantial lead in Florida polling, and will likely do well in states with substantial Hispanic populations that are not part of the 19 reliably dem states, e.g., New Mexico.

More purple states are slowly turning blue (Virginia and N.C.) than are turning red.

The point is that any republican nominee has would have baked in demographic disadvantages that any democratic nominee would not have. Factor in trump, and republicans have the added burden of having a candidate who is mostly hated against a candidate who is mostly disliked.

Dems are in a much better position.

Edit: this Washington post analysis is basically a variation on what Norton has been saying all along.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 3, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
High on the hog one day, burned out and wrapped in bacon the next.

Courtesy of some Mexicans down in Ensenada.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 3, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
We'll see, Moose. Bernie has brought important issues to the table, whatever happens.

I love Ted Cruz going off on Donald today. Wasn't that long ago he was praising him. Or course, that was when he figured Trump would flame out and he'd scoop up his supporters. Oops.

I guess Lucifer's not rising.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 3, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
She'll continue a lot of the good work President Obama set in motion...

and will of course add her own agenda, getting even more good done...

Oh yeah, like Obamacare and more ways to utterly gut the middle class.

Oh yeah.

I can only hope she gets indicted as she should be.
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
"Indicted. "

Give it up.
dirtbag

climber
May 3, 2016 - 04:52pm PT

May 3, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
We'll see, Moose. Bernie has brought important issues to the table, whatever happens.

I love Ted Cruz going off on Donald today. Wasn't that long ago he was praising him. Or course, that was when he figured Trump would flame out and he'd scoop up his supporters. Oops.

Yeah, Donald is just a great guy.

Until he insults YOUR wife. Then, YOUR dad. Then he's a puke.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
May 3, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
Merica deserves drumpf or cruz. Nutters like "ark on the moon" Klimmer with a teaching license for christsake need a drumpf or Cruz. F*#k, who thought climbers could be so stupid
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
May 3, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
Well touché or d#@&%e, whatever is your preference cuate....
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 3, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
Indicted? Was she with Lee Harvey Oswald, too?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
May 3, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
I love Ted Cruz going off on Donald today.

It's funny in a weird way that one lunatic can go off on the other, while at the same time being largely correct.

CRUZ: I'm going to tell you what I really think of Donald Trump. This man is a pathological liar. He doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. He lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth. And in a pattern that I think is straight out of a psychology textbook, his response is to accuse everybody else of lying.

He accuses everybody on that debate stage of lying. And it's simply a mindless yell. Whatever he does, he accuses everyone else of doing. The man cannot tell the truth, but he combines it with being a narcissist. A narcissist at a level I don't think this country has ever seen.

Donald Trump is such a narcissist that Barack Obama looks at him and goes, 'Dude, what's your problem?' Everything in Donald's world is about Donald. And he combines being a pathological liar, and I say pathological because I actually think Donald, if you hooked him up to a lie detector test, he could say one thing in the morning, one thing at noon and one thing in the evening, all contradictory and he's pass the lie detector test each time. Whatever lie he's telling, at that minute he believes it.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 3, 2016 - 05:37pm PT
Nice rant, but it didn't help Cruz much. He just suspended his presidential campaign. So, I guess Donald it is.

Curt
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 3, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
It's pretty much official. The GOP just self destructed. The big story is how they will pick up the pieces after this election cycle.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 3, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
So long Ted. Don't get any ashes on the door as you leave.

It'll take a while but Trump will be following you.

Too bad Fio's tenure at HP couldn't have been as short-lived as her Vice-Presidency.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
May 3, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
Wow



Susan
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 3, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
"and more ways to utterly gut the middle class"...

The middle class reached its peak at the start of the Reagan administration, when the GOP busted the unions starting with the Steel workers and flight controllers.

The middle class shrank ever since.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 3, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
If Hillary builds on what Obeezy has done, does that mean she could go for $20 Trillion? The $20 Trillion Dollar woman?

It could happen.

EDIT: It COULD happen.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 3, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
Give it up.

Certainly! Just as soon as the FBI finishes its investigation and doesn't bring charges.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to hope that there's a shred of justice left at the top.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 3, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
The middle class shrank ever since.

And at an ever-accelerating rate.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 3, 2016 - 05:48pm PT
Least Trump knows a hot babe when he sees one

zBrown

Ice climber
May 3, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
doesn't bring charges.

They never will bring charges.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 3, 2016 - 05:53pm PT
My prediction
Trump will not be the GOP nominee
They will do something to invalidate his position

and riots will ensue

I have placed my $10 bet on it
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
Meanwhile, I'll continue to hope that there's a shred of justice left at the top.

If there were, then Rumsfeld, Cheney, And a lesser cast of a dozen or so people would be in a federal prison for treason.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 3, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
The Current ReaganBush Debt is:

$17,954,570,912,603.80

which means that in a total of 20 years, these three presidents have led to the creation of 93.63% of the entire national debt in only 8.3333% of the 240 years of the existence of the United States of America.

http://reaganbushdebt.org/

They sold it as being fiscally conservative
It was a con.

Escobaria
how much will Hillary add ?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 3, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
Lorenzo

you are correct, the Reagan/conservative movement's intent was to defund the middle class
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 3, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
I love how the Donald is now complaining about all the 'negative ads' against him.

The same guy who has unleashed a firehose of hatred and vitriole never seen by our political process.

Poor, abused sociopath.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 3, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
Trump entering right now. Hot babes in tow.

(Oops, I'm on a 20 minute delay.)
Norton

Social climber
May 3, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
One question, I gotta know

how old are Escopeta, pyro, and Madbolter?

I am guessing all in their 20s based upon their posting history
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 3, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
Once Trump is President
He won't have to sick his posse of high priced lawyers to sue everyone that says something about him that doesn't like

He can have the military take their family out
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 3, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
Trump schmoozing Cruz now. And Heidi.

lol
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
In terms of potential damage to the nation, the threat of a trump presidency makes the Cuban missle crises look like a party invitation.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 3, 2016 - 06:45pm PT
How long will it take for trump supporters to turn on him when he doesn't get anything accomplished?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 3, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
10b4me, you don't understand Trump's supporters.



If Trump were to be elected president and fail to deliver on his vacuous promises, his supporters would not turn on him.

They would turn on The Enemy and attack them, instead.


The Enemy would be whomever Trump demonized when making a particular promise.



For example, if Trump failed to build the Mexican Wall, Trumpites would attack Latinos.


If Trump failed to get manufacturing jobs relocated from China to the Rust Belt, Trumpites would attack Asians.


If Trump failed to "Go in there and take the oil", Trumpites would attack people from the Middle East.


If Trump failed to smash ISIS, Trumpites would attack Muslims.





But, don't worry about it. Trump isn't going to be President.

I predict the biggest landslide in presidential election history is going to have Trump underneath it.



Trump has historically low approval ratings:


http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/donald-trump-favorable-rating


http://www.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/189779/trump-popularity-context.aspx


http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/donald-trumps-poll-numbers-collapse-general-election-looms


http://www.staradvertiser.com/breaking-news/trumps-unfavorable-rating-reaches-historic-low/

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 3, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2016 - 07:32pm PT
The Latino turnout should be interesting as will red state efforts to selectively close polling places in advance of the general.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 3, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
In a parallax view of the world, who is more likely to be assassinated before November, Clinton (not Bill) or Trump?

Does Las Vegas have odds out on it?

Is Trump's presumptive running mate "Pito" Wilson?

[Click to View YouTube Video]


morte a Pito Wilson! Donald Trumph ! viva la raça, Latinos !




Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 3, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
Craig Fry posted:

Once Trump is President

Nice.

Who will be his running mate?

Norton

Social climber
May 3, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
Let's see.....

Hillary Clinton is a Democrat and also a woman but at least she's not black like Obama, I did not for him for that reason

therefore she is a liar and a soon to be convicted criminal, so I must vote for Donald

I am a fairly new Republican, how is my reasoning, did I get this right?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 3, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
Norton, Better Call Saul!! No, even better ask Klimmer.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 3, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
As I said, the most comprehensive intelligence test ever conducted.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
May 3, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
Wow! The road getting to this point has been wildly entertaining; I can't wait to watch the nuclear war of words we'll see from both sides over the next 7 months. Might be a good time to take a media break for the faint of heart.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 3, 2016 - 08:32pm PT
I predict this will be closer than many on the left expect. Sure Trump is a pathetic bigot but so are a lot of other people.

The country is so polarized right now that most of the right will still rally around him no matter how distasteful he is, and remember how much they hate Hillary and how many scandals she has in her closet to motivate them.

But the difference will be all Trumps bigotry coming back to motivate Dems to the polls. And all the independents turned off more by Trumps bigotry than by Hillary's scandals.

Many on the right will show up for the polls and vote for whoever the Rep is. The thing is Trump will motivate millions on the left to vote when they might not otherwise just because he is so terrible as demonstrated by his own words, not by some scandals that he may or may not be guilty of like BENGHAZIIII!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 3, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
Trump has mobilized the American Latinos, Muslims, Blacks, browns, Asians, Europeans, Jews, Atheists, real Christians, the educated, the smart, teachers, scientists, LBGT, the gifted and many other groups to rally the vote against him.

His base is not that large compared to the General population

Hillary has received MORE votes so far in this Primary

Nothing is certain until November.
Daphne

Trad climber
Northern California
May 3, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
I'm stunned that Cruz pulled out. I really thought that, evil as he is, he would be preferred by most republicans to Trump. After all, Cheney is the devil incarnate too and he rates high with repubs.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 3, 2016 - 08:45pm PT
Stoopid american politards just don't get it.

Wait until the general erection. What are y'all gonna say when Hillary Clinton announces Donald Trump as her VP, and Donald Trump announces Hillary Clinton as his VP?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 3, 2016 - 08:49pm PT


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 3, 2016 - 08:50pm PT
The crisis in the Republican Party is even worse than it looks

by Josh Barro
Business Insider

Donald Trump is going to be the Republican nominee for president, and this alarms ideological conservatives for several reasons:

1. They think he will lose badly to Hillary Clinton, perhaps so badly that Republicans lose control of both houses of Congress.

2. They are afraid that he will damage the brand of the Republican Party, making it harder to win future elections.

3. They believe that he lacks the temperament and character to serve as president.

These are all good reasons to be alarmed, but there is also a fourth reason for alarm that is perhaps the most alarming of all for conservatives: His nomination could signal the death of orthodox conservatism as one of the two main forces in American public policy, since he is running away with the nomination despite being exposed as a nonconservative.

Trump is the candidate who finally figured out how to exploit the fact that much of the Republican voter base does not share the policy preferences of the Republican donor class, and that it is therefore possible to win the nomination without being saddled with their unpopular policy preferences.

He will not be the last candidate to understand this.

Future candidates will seek to rebuild Trump's coalition, and they will follow in his footsteps by opposing free trade, promising to protect entitlements from cuts, questioning the value of America's commitment to military alliances, and shrugging at social changes like the growing acceptance of transgender people.

All three of the supposed "legs" of the Republican coalition stool — libertarian economics, social conservatism, and militarism — are at risk from Trump and the populist-imitator candidates he will spawn.

But it gets worse.

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-nomination-gop-crisis-2016-5
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 3, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
"Who will be his running mate? "

Silly question. Sociopathic narcissists need no-one but themselves. Trump will be the first candidate in history to suggest he can do this job alone.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 3, 2016 - 08:57pm PT
How could Trump ruin the already tarnished brand of the republican party..?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 3, 2016 - 09:56pm PT
$17,954,570,912,603.80

which means that in a total of 20 years, these three presidents have led to the creation of 93.63% of the entire national debt in only 8.3333% of the 240 years of the existence of the United States of America.

Where in the WORLD do you get those numbers??? I guess only because it fits your (incorrect) world view.

Here. Try this.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/usdebtanddeficit/p/US-Debt-by-President.htm

That's a very careful analysis contemplating metrics that most (superficial, but still not getting you your numbers) sites manage.

I quote: Barack Obama - The national debt grew the most dollar-wise during President Obama's term. He added $6.494 trillion, a 56% increase, in seven years.

Yes, yes, Bush was second at adding $5.849 trillion. But your claim that the three repubs added 93.63% of the debt is not only false, but it couldn't possibly be true, given that we're right at $19 trillion in debt including the almost 30% that Obama "contributed" to that total. And your (whacky) idea would imagine that the three repub presidents started their 20 years at zero, which is obviously not the case.

In short (as usual), your claims are not only incorrect, but they are laughably, obviously incorrect.

Now, I'm not singling Obama out for special condemnation, as we all know that Bush was a world-class whack-job (and, Joe, yes, also a criminal!) who added the highest percentage of debt relative to what he found coming into office.

But neither can you "work" the numbers to make Obama out to be a fiscal saint either! Bush doubled the debt as he found it, and Obama added almost another 60% in seven years (while supposedly pulling us out of wars that Bush started).

Anyway, your claims are entirely fictitious and won't bear the briefest scrutiny (which is typical for you).
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 3, 2016 - 10:02pm PT
libertarian economics

Yet another ignorant, superficial, whacky statement that you read somewhere on the Internet and therefore believe is true.

Repubs don't favor true "libertarian economics." They typically cherry pick favorite scapegoats in an otherwise laissez faire approach.

The best correlation would be: "Classical Liberal" = "Libertarian," our founders were almost all classical liberals, and they did not espouse laissez faire economics in the slightest.

"Republican" != "Classical Liberal".
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 4, 2016 - 12:12am PT
much of the Republican voter base does not share the policy preferences of the Republican donor class


The GOP has had a huge disconnect between its voters and the beneficiaries of its policies for a long time.

Apparently, GOP voters were riding the momentum of pre-Reagan Republicans, who were not so invested in catering to the super-wealthy and to large corporations. Either that, or they were the most blindly optimistic people in the world, ignoring reality in favor of what their latest candidate promised them.


The GOP has been proffering a false narrative that removing taxes and regulations on large corporations and wealthy individuals will result in prosperity for the entire nation.

The GOP's voter base is no longer buying into the false narrative, because the evidence is in, and prosperity for the nation has not resulted.

Instead, the super-wealthy have gotten richer, and multi-national corporations with no loyalty to America have become politically powerful. Tax cuts and deregulation has resulted in the wholesale evisceration of the American manufacturing industry, and the loss of jobs to foreigners in distant lands. Money, not voters, is what controls our government.

The middle class is being exterminated by the upper class, and GOP voters are starting to realize that they have been sold a cup of Jonestown Kool-Aid by the likes of Goldman Sachs and the Koch brothers.




It may turn out that a callous and narcissistic buffoon will wind up being the man who saved America, because he ran a ludicrous and comical campaign to be President.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2016 - 03:19am PT
The problem is the gop establishment has, by policy and design, done everything in it's power to f*#k the vast majority of its base for the past sixty years. Them looking within the gop for a savior is how trump won the nomination. It's hard to overstate how disappointed they will be should he win the presidency. Their fate with trump is best summed up by:

"Never give a sucker an even break"
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 4, 2016 - 06:20am PT
Elizabeth Warren ✔‎@elizabethforma

There's more enthusiasm for @realDonaldTrump among leaders of the KKK than leaders of the political party he now controls.

7:47 PM - 3 May 2016

Here's your VP, Hillary.
dirtbag

climber
May 4, 2016 - 06:22am PT
Now that the republican nominee has been basically chosen, it's time for Hillary and her allies to completely unleash attacks on that quasi fascist.

Bombs away, mother f*#ker. Let him have it!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 4, 2016 - 06:33am PT
Agree, dirt. Ignoring him doesn't work, nor does "staying above the fray". Hit that buffoon with everything you've got - and often.

She and her allies have to - the media won't.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 4, 2016 - 07:49am PT
Very fun to watch people get butt hurt over the fact that Trump has totally cornered the media.

He figured out AMERICAN politics in about 3 weeks when most of the other tards are still trying to operate behind the curtain of the wizard of oz.

Step one: convince people that you are winning. It's the worlds most obvious,best, self-fulfilling prophecy.

Step Two: lie to people's face, they actually find it a refreshing break from their politicians lying behind their back.

Heads are gonna explode. (Insert Pyro head exploding pic here) lol


~right on queue! Well done.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 4, 2016 - 07:51am PT
Very fun to watch people get butt hurt over the fact that Trump has totally cornered the media.

lol!
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 4, 2016 - 07:55am PT
Now that the republican nominee has been basically chosen, it's time for Hillary and her allies to completely unleash attacks on that quasi fascist.

Bombs away, mother f*#ker. Let him have it!

Attacking him has been effective, so far.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 4, 2016 - 07:59am PT
pyro, did you get that image by photographing your TV screen?

You can see your reflected image in the background.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 4, 2016 - 08:00am PT
Maybe now there will be a recitation of Trump's "plans".

Build a wall between Mexico and the U.S.
Cause Mexico to pay for building the wall.
Consult a alot with Ichan.
Destroy isis immediately.
Cause companies to discontinue moving manufacturing to the third world.
Spend a lot of money on "rebuilding" the military which has become decrepit.



Admittedly, I don't follow Trump's speechifying, so I'm sure there are more.





Chameleon that he is, his offerings will undoubtedly change since he has no skin in any game other than his own ego games.

Oh yeah, God Bless Trump (and 'Pito' Wilson)



Pito turns his back on 'Raffi' (the little brown man) and heads Trump's way. Just an indicator of Pito's hypocracy, he's shorter than Raffi.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 4, 2016 - 08:02am PT
pyro, did you get that image by photographing your TV screen?

You can see your reflected image in the background.

DUHHH!

lol
dirtbag

climber
May 4, 2016 - 08:07am PT
Attacking him has been effective, so far.

Actually it has been. Most people hate him.
beaner

Social climber
Maine
May 4, 2016 - 08:11am PT
But neither can you "work" the numbers to make Obama out to be a fiscal saint either! Bush doubled the debt as he found it, and Obama added almost another 60% in seven years (while supposedly pulling us out of wars that Bush started).

Bush came into office with a budget surplus. The budget that Obama inherited from the Bush administration had a deficit of around 1.4 trillion. Obama has reduced the deficit to around 468 billion in 2015. It is impossible to cut a 1.4 trillion deficit overnight, especially since the republicans made sure that the Bush era tax cuts were extended and eventually made permanent for most people.

The truth is we need to raise taxes on the upper middle class (me) and the rich and also spend our money more wisely (rebuild infrastructure, stop waisting money on a poorly designed fighter jet). You're going to run a deficit during a recession since tax receipts are down and drastically cutting spending makes the recession worse, but when the economy is good we should be paying down debt rather than cut taxes.

It is going to take another 20 years to fully recover from Bush.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 08:23am PT
The Mad Bolter is the Ted Cruz of ST.
Just a miserable son of a Bitch to work with.

He seems contrary to all logic and facts, hyperbolically speaking, just pure libertarian ideology, like a religious cultist, just like Ted.

and such a mean spirited soul, not a post goes by without him calling out someone by name of being stupid or an idiot,

He said I couldn't pass the Turing Test??
What kind of BS insult is that? He doesn't know me, he just disagrees with me, and I disagree with him.

here is the info for him
Here is the important part you missed with your insane BS rant.
The debt added during the Obama years was NOT CAUSED by policies of the OBAMA Administration, it was because of W. Bush and the Republican Congress that will not repeal the Bush budget plans.

So hence, Obama is not responsible for the added debt,
he is not the King, and cannot create his own budget
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 4, 2016 - 08:23am PT
Bush came into office with a budget surplus.

Ah, the typical confusion between surplus/deficit and debt.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 08:23am PT

ReaganBushDebt.org Calculation Details

According to http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm, the debt at the end of the 1980 fiscal year, on September 30th, 1980, was $907,701,000,000. On September 30th, 1981, it was $997,855,000,000. Averaging it out over the year gives a debt of $246,997,260.27 per day.

Reagan took office 112 days later on January 20th, 1981. The debt on that date could be estimated as $907,701,000,000 plus 112 x $246,997,260.27, or $935,364,693,151.

Bill Clinton was the first president to slow the rate of the accrual of debt after the current out-of-control spending began with the Borrow and Spend Republicans in 1981.

The final amount of the senior Bush debt was $4,174,218,594,232.91 (according to http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np);, and Clinton became president on January 20th, 1993. Bill Clinton saw $1,553,558,144,071.73 added to the national debt during the eight years of his presidency.

However, from the start of fiscal year 1994 (7 months after Clinton became president), until the start of fiscal year 2002 (7 months after Bush took office), the amount of money paid toward interest on the existing Federal debt was $2,767,282,794,374.59 (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm);.

Therefore, no amount of the national debt is attributable to Bill Clinton - his policies of higher taxes and reduced spending actually simultaneously reduced the debt and brought about the strongest economy since World War II, despite the fiscal disaster left in the wake of Reagan and the first Bush.

The debt was at $5,727,776,738,304.64 on January 19th, 2001, the last business day before George W. Bush took the office of president. The debt was at $10,628,881,485,510.23 on January 16th, 2009, the last business day before Barack H. Obama became president.

During his administration, George W. Bush
increased the national debt by $4,901,104,747,205.59
and personally approved of the creation of 46% of the entire national debt,
in only 8 years.

Starting in 2003, George W. Bush destroyed the world economy by encouraging U.S. banks to make loans to those who could not afford them, through schemes such as the "American Dream Downpayment Initiative", and through the elimination of oversight, such as lawsuits to prevent state securities laws from being enforced on Bush's watch. Once Bush's policies led to their inevitable result of economic collapse, the United States found itself in a situation where it had to increase the size of the annual Federal budget in order to support and restore the economy, and then sustain that budget, to avoid another collapse.

The result of George W. Bush's Borrow-And-Spend Republicanism was a 2009 annual Federal government budget of $3,517,677,000,000, and an economy too weak to avoid recession from cutting that budget.

President Barack Obama took four years to cut the deficit in half from 2009 levels, and is on track to lower the deficit throughout his term (http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist01z1.xls);.

That means that Ronald Wilson Reagan, George Herbert Walker Bush, and George Walker Bush's Borrow-And-Spend Republican administrations oversaw, approved, or caused to be spent, almost all of the national debt, except for as much as $1,221,051,693,151.00.

The current calculation on the site is based on the U.S. Treasury's published Total Public Debt Outstanding as of Monday, May 02, 2016, when the debt was $19,170,001,895,674.10. On Tuesday, September 04, 2007, the debt was $8,995,145,905,720.62.

This means that with the current national debt around $19,177,540,410,605.90, we're adding $3,216,837,176.72 per day, or $37,231.91 per second.

http://reaganbushdebt.org/CalculationDetails.aspx
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 4, 2016 - 08:24am PT
In the abstract, trump is another Mephistopheles.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 4, 2016 - 08:31am PT
Donald Trump could strangle a puppy on live television and he would still win Idaho and Mississippi

One of the more fun statements in a very believable article in The Week.com about why Hillary will easily win the election this fall.

It's all fairly cut & dried, according to this interesting article.

http://theweek.com/articles/622075/why-outcome-2016-election-already-crystal-clear
dirtbag

climber
May 4, 2016 - 08:47am PT
Balls. Does Donald have them? You betcha. It takes real man balls to do this in front of 20,000 adoring followers.



That's balls.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 09:06am PT
JOHN KASICH has just suspended his campaign


WOW!!

What happens now!
dirtbag

climber
May 4, 2016 - 09:10am PT
I was wondering why Kasich would bother to continue.

It's trump's party now.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2016 - 09:16am PT
Donald's biggest problem is there's still six months to the general and he will shoot himself in the foot in too many cringe-worthy ways in that amount of time.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 09:17am PT
Trump owns the Republican Party now.

I hope they're happy with the direction they went.
They tried so hard to not go completely fascist
or at least to keep the illusion alive that they weren't

But now the transformation is complete..
brotherbbock

climber
Alta Loma, CA
May 4, 2016 - 09:18am PT
Trump has disqualified himself from being President of the United States.

There is no way in hell that the GOP will allow him to be their nominee

and after his recent remark of "China is raping us"

it's just one of the hundreds of things he has said that makes him disqualified

Our Government will not allow him to President no matter How MANY Votes he getS


I have put my $10 bet down

Well looks like you were wrong about the GOP nomination part...
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 4, 2016 - 09:19am PT
http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/05/04/woman-painted-naked-trump-just-got-violently-attacked-deranged-fans-2/

I know that it is a minority of Trump supporters who would behave in this way, but it is extremely upsetting to me that the Trump ideology, in general, seems to condone violence.

Unless the RNC has some unguessable trick up their sleeve, we will soon see a large constituency of GOP supporters forgetting just how awful a candidate for office Trump actually is. We have been desensitized to absurdities we recognized as such just a few months ago, and I expect that, if HC is the Democrat nominee, we will see the rage against women become extraordinarily ugly.

dirtbag

climber
May 4, 2016 - 09:20am PT
Many of us on the left have predicted a GOP crackup for years. How, we wondered, could a rigid party composed of free market types, religious conservatives, and know nothing/white nationalist proponents, who rejected empirical knowledge and seem to have little in common, possibly endure? To me it always seemed like it was held together with a thin veneer of unity.

Few of us saw this coming, though. I had always imagined a gradual party decline. Good luck getting Hispanics, women, and others to ever feel welcome.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 09:20am PT
BB
WRONG

Not until the GOP Officially nominates Trump at the Convention in July will I be proved wrong.

and if wrong then, I will pay my $10 and admit I was WRONG

and until then, I will have fun telling the GOP has picked their fate


The GOP can still deal out some dirty tricks at the convention and boot Trump out, why wouldn't they?, their whole livelihoods depend on it.
Trillions are at Stake.

But I thank you BroB for keeping up on my bet, are you in?
beaner

Social climber
Maine
May 4, 2016 - 09:22am PT
madbolter1 the pompous ass says
Ah, the typical confusion between surplus/deficit and debt.

I know the difference between the two.

yes, Obama has added to the debt. It would be impossible for him not to when he has run a deficit every year. I have never said otherwise. It will take decades before we can start reducing debt (running a surplus like Clinton) and will require raising taxes.
dirtbag

climber
May 4, 2016 - 09:22am PT


Trad climber
Portland, Oregon

May 4, 2016 - 09:16am PT
Donald's biggest problem is there's still six months to the general and he will shoot himself in the foot in too many cringe-worthy ways in that amount of time.

Yes. And frankly, he's provided enough material the last six months to already have sealed the deal.
dirtbag

climber
May 4, 2016 - 09:29am PT
Conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin sees opportunities in a Republican Party crackup for the party (or a new one?) to rid itself of the garbage that has taken over the past couple of decades.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/05/04/the-upside-to-the-gops-crackup/
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 4, 2016 - 09:31am PT
Ah, the typical confusion between surplus/deficit and debt.

Still arguing fiscal responsibility with retards that don't know the difference between a balance sheet and an income statement? Man, you really are a glutton for punishment.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 4, 2016 - 09:34am PT
There's been talk about GOP 'crackups' for years now, as an election cycle goes along and the clown car of candidates make complete asses of themselves, then the GOP gets their asses handed to them, and the buzz is all about how they've now entered the 'wilderness'.

I doubt there's going to be a complete meltdown and transformation, even after Trump's shitshow on the GOP establishment. They will just find another way to recycle their garbage, and the Repub droids will swallow it down like hungry little birds.
dirtbag

climber
May 4, 2016 - 09:43am PT
Muddling along is the easiest and most likely path forward, but trump will not only make this election a lost cause, but future presidential elections too. The republicans will accelerate the trend of becoming a party with some regional but no national appeal. I doubt that a lot of right leaning people would tolerate that for long.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 4, 2016 - 09:49am PT
Maybe a party who stills holds minimal government and maximum freedom as its values will take hold

It could happen. Lol
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 09:54am PT
Ecobaria, 100s of millions of Koch money is on trying to make that happen

Freedom and liberty from Government is their goal
to the determent of all civil liberties and society as a whole

"Liberty for the wolves equals slaughter of the sheep"
brotherbbock

climber
Alta Loma, CA
May 4, 2016 - 09:56am PT
BB
WRONG

Not until the GOP Officially nominates Trump at the Convention in July will I be proved wrong.

and if wrong then, I will pay my $10 and admit I was WRONG

and until then, I will have fun telling the GOP has picked their fate


The GOP can still deal out some dirty tricks at the convention and boot Trump out, why wouldn't they?, their whole livelihoods depend on it.
Trillions are at Stake.

But I thank you BroB for keeping up on my bet, are you in?

Haha I'm in bro!

July isn't too far away.
brotherbbock

climber
Alta Loma, CA
May 4, 2016 - 09:57am PT
Out of curiosity Craig.......

How do you not see Trump getting the GOP nomination?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 4, 2016 - 10:04am PT
He's the nominee.

Who's going to stain themselves for life by supporting this clown? What elected official? Who would risk their political career by being his VP pick?

Chris Christie? He's already toast, might as well.
Sarah Palin? How could she have any less credibility?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 4, 2016 - 10:07am PT
"maximum freedom"

esco, can you give three examples of how your basic freedoms have been directly infringed upon in the last 7 years? Or 16?

C'mon...real, tangible examples that have affected you in your everyday life.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 4, 2016 - 10:23am PT
Apogee, I've answered that several times. You can research the responses at your leisure.

This, however, is pretty funny:

100s of millions of Koch money is on trying to make that happen

The absolute last thing the Koch brothers want is a reduction In government.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 4, 2016 - 10:34am PT
I am thinking that Trump will name his son, Eric, as VP. Or, since he was quoted as saying he "might have a female VP, his daughter Ivanka.


What - too bizarre to believe? Hasn't nearly every day of his campaign build upon the believabilty of the bizarre?

That Eric, though - something about him frightens me every time I see his picture. He seems like the type who is keeping the lid on a terrible behavior.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 10:40am PT
Esco
Read Dark Money, you are one of their prized pupils

They have shaped your mind through dark money

That's all they want, liberty
which equals no Gov. regulations or any other theft of the riches they are entitled to.

Until you become educated, I will just consider you a Koch Bot
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 10:44am PT
Trump's son, Eric
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 4, 2016 - 10:44am PT
Really? I don't recall.

Does anyone else recall such an answer from esco?


Humor us dim-minded libtards. Just give one example of an everyday freedom infringement from the long lists you've supposedly posted in the past.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 10:47am PT
Esoc hasn't told us sh#t, it's all vague fear of something

Just like the Koch's fear of regulations killing their businesses

like no other people have ever been able to proper in a well regulated Gov.

It's all based on fear and paranoia.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 4, 2016 - 10:48am PT
Craig Fry,

Until you educate yourself on what freedom actually is, I'll consider you just another run of the mill socialist.

We good?

You can bait MB1 into repeating himself, I'm over it.

Why would I cast pearls to swine?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 10:50am PT
we will never be good

there are some people that are never meant to be Good together
I'm more than well educated and informed

That's what I do, collect info and facts that debunk BS
brotherbbock

climber
Alta Loma, CA
May 4, 2016 - 10:52am PT
F%&K Trump's Son.

I'd like to cut his tail off.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 4, 2016 - 10:52am PT
So we're good then. Lol
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
May 4, 2016 - 10:56am PT
Jill Stein is looking better and better
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 10:56am PT
Esco
Why don't you spare us the BS and tell us what these Freedoms are

Because we don't know what the hell you talking about.
I think they're all BS, convince me I'm Wrong



vvvvv

Do any of those lost freedoms effect him personally?
No

Just a bunch of whining
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 4, 2016 - 10:59am PT
Here is the page where Escoperto replied about diminished liberties:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2669435&tn=4100

As for the Elephant tail Cutter-offer, I think that is DT,jr. Eric Trump has the blonder hair and the pasty complexion.
dirtbag

climber
May 4, 2016 - 11:04am PT
In 2000, some people in Florida thought Nader looked better and better, too.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 4, 2016 - 11:19am PT
Jill Stein = Ralph Nader.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2016 - 11:24am PT
The panic around the gop seats in the house and senate up for grabs hasn't begun yet and it may be enough motivation for a third party run just to give downstream seats cover.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 4, 2016 - 11:29am PT
Esco
Why don't you spare us the BS and tell us what these Freedoms are

esco Fry is confused he keeps posting pictures of rose quartz on my sea glass thread.. he is not part of the secret sea glass society so him and locker are gang banging the tread.. real mature.

A private business is required to disallow smoking in its establishment.

Our government is spying on us. And using the information to prosecute citizens for victimless crimes. (see next line) In truth, it would be hard to argue that the 4th amendment even still exists.

There are so many federal crimes that no one even knows how many there are (aka Three Felonies a Day) they abandoned the project to catalogue them all.

Violent criminals have a government guarantee that honest people are unarmed if they're away from their homes or businesses in many places.

Taxes, Fees, Licensing, Penalties, Estate Tax, Corporate Tax, Capital Gains Tax, Sales Tax, Permits, Payroll Tax, Alternative Minimum Tax, Fuel Tax, Cigarette Tax, Value Added Tax, Goods and Services Tax, Property Tax, Import Tax,. That’s just to name a few.

A landowner must pay thousands of dollars in fees, taxes and licensing just to build a toolshed on the property they own.

Forced to pay into a government supplied healthcare solution, regardless of whether they use it.

Forced to pay into a government savings program. EDIT: With no guarantee of even getting your principle back.

The logical equivalent of a standing army. (And they are open for business I might add.)

Protesting is now criminal (HR347 for reference)

The government is actively trying to limit legitimate businesses access to financial services (and they have a cool name for it - Operation Chokepoint)

Terrorists can be subdued, detained and even assassinated without due process. (I encourage you to research what qualifies as terrorist for your own edification)

The amount of goods and cash seized via Civil Asset forfeiture exceeds the amount of goods and cash stolen through legitimate burglaries (pun intended)

Americans are being arrested for having the audacity to film police officers

Peaceful protestors are being tear-gassed, beaten and arrested.

An adult US citizen required to wear a seat belt. A motorcycle helmet.

“a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 11:29am PT
healyje
That does sound like a best plan for GOP
I would lose my $10 though


oh look, Pyro agrees with the terrible lack of all his freedoms

Life sounds so tough for them with all those freedoms lost
No wonder they're so bitter

And what about Liberty!!!
Did you lose that too?
dirtbag

climber
May 4, 2016 - 11:46am PT
Pyro posted a picture of his head exploding because he is so oppressed.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
May 4, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
Let me sum up this entire sh!tfest:

Your religion isn't the problem, it's other peoples'.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 4, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
So, Hillary will be President, Dems will retake the Senate and probably gain some seats in the House. We should all thank The Donald.

Curt
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 4, 2016 - 12:55pm PT
So, Hillary will be President, Dems will retake the Senate and probably gain some seats in the House. We should all thank The Donald.

Curt

One could argue that was the plan all along. I still don't believe for a second Donald T really wants the job. Hillary sure does and is a proven member of the cabal.

I'm just waiting for Cheney to take off his Hillary skin-mask...



madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 4, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
That's what I do, collect info and facts that debunk BS

Hahahahahahahaaaaaa....


Haaaaaaaaaaa....

You mean like your "info" and "facts" regarding the three last repubs accumulating over 95% of the total national debt?

Hehehehehahahahahahaha

No, I debunked your BS, but that FACT just goes by the wayside as you continue to spew.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 4, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
Still have my "I'm with Ben", "Ben Carson 2016" bumper sticker in place. Still hold true too, that I'm still with Ben (who's with you-know-who).
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
May 4, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
"I am well-known and highly respected among the absolute top-ranking academic officers at the absolute top-ranking universities in the USA and Canada."

Please continue to spew...
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 4, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
trumps pick for veep will be key to his election probability.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 4, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
Braun/Marchinko 2016...I'd vote that s. h. i. t!

Demo Dick, SharkMan of the Delta would be around to make sure Mr. Braun wasn't too nice to everyone
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 4, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
Ok.... so part one of my wish plan is finished..... No Bush on the ticket.

Now all I need is for Bernie to beat Clinton....



I think you all take Trump much to lightly.... keep doing that, OK.

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 4, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
Trump has no chance.

The oligarchy will now till the election mount a massive assault on him to make sure he doesn't become POTUS.

They will destroy him in any way they can.

The smear campaign will be ugly ......

And if it was simply a ruse all along I'd expect Trump to start doing even more crazy things in an attempt to jump his own shark.

Like maybe give some speech about the "Wall" on the mexican border whilst stomping a box of live Chihuahua puppies to death on stage...

This country is really, really screwed.

Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 4, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
Trump has no chance.

The oligarchy will now till the election mount a massive assault on him to make sure he doesn't become POTUS.

They will destroy him in any way they can.

The smear campaign will be ugly ......

That's the conventional wisdom, but remember--one year ago the same people said that Trump would shoot himself in the foot and blow himself up politically. The CW then was that there was absolutely no way Trump could be the Republican nominee. This may need some rethinking.

Curt
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 4, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
They'll destroy him with his own words.

Just play clips of him talking. That'll be enough.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 4, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
The media got their man as a candidate. I view their actions in 2016 no different from those of the "journalism" that used the sinking of the "Maine" in 1898 to start the Spanish-American War. Hearst allegedly hoped to start a war to sell newspapers. In any case, both in 1898 and 2016, the media companies were simply trying to generate interest in their product, at the expense of the good of the Republic.

The difference will come after Trump is the official nominee. Then the same media outlets that gave Trump all the free publicity will turn their fire on him, spotlighting his innumerable disqualifications for office.

That gripe notwithstanding, I have to confess I was wrong, and most of you were right -- the Republican Party today is dominated by imbeciles and fools.

John
dirtbag

climber
May 4, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
John,

We need a sensible center right party, either a reformed Republican Party where the extremists are kept in their place, or something else. I hope it would welcome people like you.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 4, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
That gripe notwithstanding, I have to confess I was wrong, and most of you were right -- the Republican Party today is dominated by imbeciles and fools.

glad you can admit the fact that establishment is NOT so BIG!
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 4, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
I agree, Dirtbag, but I don't have much hope judging by the actions of the California Republican party. The "I'd rather be right than win an election" crowd has been dominant since 1968, when they derailed Tom Kuchel - who would easily have won the general election - and gave us Max Rafferty as a Republican candidate, and thereby Alan Cranston as Senator for a couple of decades or so. They did the same thing in 1992, when they managed to find the one candidate that could lose to Barbara Boxer, thereby entrenching her as an incumbent.

And because the Republican candidates have had such dangerous lists to port, the Democrats have had no need to move toward the center. Sad to say, though, I think we need a center-left party as well, or maybe just one party in the center. We've already seen that the Democrats had no place for Joe Lieberman, and I doubt that Scoop Jackson would be welcome in the contemporary Democratic Party in Washington State, for example. The Democrats' legislative leaders routinely give the cold shoulder to the relatively centrist Democrat we elect in the Central Valley.

I'm hoping that Hillary's tilt to the left in order to deal with the Sandersnistas can tack back to the center, where I think she would most likely end up anyway, for the general election. She may not need to, though. On trade issues, Trump has outflanked her to the left. In any case, she now has my vote barring some miraculous influx of intelligence between now and the Republican convention.

John
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 4, 2016 - 02:16pm PT

The difference will come after Trump is the official nominee. Then the same media outlets that gave Trump all the free publicity will turn their fire on him, spotlighting his innumerable disqualifications for office.

I wouldn't be so sure. I haven't seen a journalist lay a glove on him yet. He makes mincemeat out of lightweights like Chuck Todd. Tim Russert must be rolling over in his grave.

If the primaries are an example, he'll make things up and make personal attacks, Hillary will counter with facts and the media will portray it as a nasty campaign.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 4, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
If the primaries are an example, he'll make things up and make personal attacks, Hillary will counter with facts and the media will portray it as a nasty campaign.

If Hillary were a Republican candidate in the primaries, I would agree, but in the general eleciton, the media will pounce on his (choose one) []lies []mistakes.

John
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 4, 2016 - 02:55pm PT
Trump is necessary to make Hillary look g....less evil.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 4, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
why the demagogue has no chance. he has no path to 270.

Norton

Social climber
May 4, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
you gotta expect Donald Trump to now become a repetitive machine

every day, barking out "criminal Hillary", "crooked Hillary", Benghazi, Monica Lewinsky

which will serve to motivate his Republican base to remember why they hate her, both a democrat and a woman, oh my

which will serve to piss off 80% of the women in this country and remind them to vote for her

which side do you suppose gains the most popular and Electoral Votes from this tactic come Nov?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 4, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
John..... so you will pull the leaver for Hillery????????????????????

What if she is under indictment?

FBI.... is still working on "it".

Just let the fact that Hillery will sell us out to the lowest bidder, or the sleezyest most corrupt people ever, and invite in about 35 million MORE people, change the 2nd amendment, and lord knows what else.... Just ponder that for a few weeks, than decide.

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 4, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
change the second amendment? you mean like the way Obama did? you know, he took all our guns 'n stuff.

Oh wait... that's the just right lying to us again.
dirtbag

climber
May 4, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
Just ponder that for a few weeks, than decide.

Ponder this:








Here he is, mocking a report did his disability.

Isn't this presidential?

Doesn't this show empathy?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
When the Republicans decide not to be the Party of Organized Crime, maybe they will get some respect.
Funneling money (bribes) to politicians, judges and schools to sway laws so they can be free from regulations (liberty) that keep them in check.

Trump not withstanding, the Republicans do nothing for this Country except line the pockets of the rich at the expense of the rest of us.
Have you seen their recent record of accomplishments??
It's a big ZERO, they are the worst Congress in History

all the while the President is on Fire getting good things done.

So when you say Hillary should go to the center, that center has drifted so to far right to what we call now a RINO.

And Hillary would likely fit that designation already
She is a centrist in the real World
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
The New Poll has Hillary at 53%
Trump at 41%

Pyro?
what happened, your poll was the opposite??



One good thing of having Trump on the ticket
The GOP won't try and cheat to help him win
They're put all their efforts in cheating at the lower levels, the Congress and State Govs.

Vote Blue completely down ticket if you want your country back.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 4, 2016 - 04:10pm PT
Elezarian, first you say the Repub party is indeed occppied by imbeciles and fools, and then go on to say that the problem with Cal Repubs is that they focus too much on being 'right', and not enough on winning.

As an independent conservative who votes with the Ca Repub party, I think that picking Trump over Cruz would be picking a winner over someone who may be more traditionally conservative.

Cruz could not win nationally, no way. Trump is the closest you're going to get to a fiscal conservative. And I think that is just about all we need right now, certainly top of the list.

So, some Trump supporters may be more calculating than you give them credit for.

Clinton/Sanders is just not an option. And I think many, many people agree. They just need a kinda moderate Repub to pull the lever for. That's Trump.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 4, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
You must not have children or grandchildren. If you did, you wouldn't want a loose cannon and pathological liar like Trump in command of the most powerful weapons on the planet. That's just irrational and dangerous.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 04:16pm PT
Yea JE
Listen to Bluering
Trump is a moderate, just like you want

Not a crazed far right loon like Cruz
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 4, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
nature.... the guns will go just as soon as the supreme court gets restaffed with who Hillery wants....mark these words.

Obama is way to smart to have tried that with the previous court.

and Fry.... you crack me up, really really do. You remind me of Baghdad Bob or more recently Ted Cruz ..... "it's all lies, there are no American Tanks around...""" "we now have a clear path, Lord willing, to the White House..."

LOL all
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 4, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
I sure do enjoy ^^^ watching the GOP eat its own.

DMT

Who do you like for the presidency? I'm curious.

Do tell, Dingus.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 04:22pm PT
How long should we "mark these words" for the guns to go

8 years?

Then can we say WRONG

Guy, where do you get your info from besides Fox News and Alex Jones?
Brietbart?
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
May 4, 2016 - 04:35pm PT
I'm seeing something different tonight. It's the Democrats that are going crazy.

#DropOutHillary, is #1 trending on twitter right now. You look at it, you think it is Republicans. Hillary in a prison suit etc. In fact, it is Sanders supporters.

Facebook is nuts too. The Libs are all fighting with each other.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
That's Fox News BS

instead of facing their demons
they shift the focus on to some BS story about the OTHER SIDE falling apart
Lol
desperately pathetic

there may be 5% of the Bernie supporters that won't vote for Hillary
They may come around, they're morons if they don't.

Just another fabricated lie from the Lie Machine, The leaders of Republican Party

No one will ever get to vote for their perfect candidate, it's all about voting for the better out of 2 unlikable options, A Republican and a Democrat.

That's all there is to pick from, it's quite simple.
Take you pick.


The Democratics are in sweet heaven Today
We all united in our opposition to Trump
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 4, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
nstead of facing their demons
they shift the focus on to some BS story about the OTHER SIDE falling apart


Lol.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 4, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
Craig.... it will not be all at once but little by little. First off something like... "no person shall posses more than XXX number of assult-kill bullets" ..... then something like ..... only two guns per person.. you know typical creeping BS, the kind both parties love.

And you would be surprised who I listen to/and read....BBC, Supertopo and sometimes even NPR!

how about you....I do see the links to your propaganda and sometimes I even click and read.

And I too like to watch the repub party eat each other, dems too...

Both party's have let down the American People and now a bunch of US are sick and tired of business as usual, pay your taxes and shut up deal we have had the last few decades
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 4, 2016 - 05:03pm PT
That's like saying you don't like the way your dentist fixed your tooth the last time so next time you're going to ask your plumber to fix it.
Political experience matters. It happens to be the most important political position in the world.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
So once the slippery slope starts, then we can "mark these words"

And of course anything regulation will be considered starting the slippery slope

like federal back ground checks that include mental condition
or banning assault rifles,
or cartridge restrictions?

The NRA has Won!
They're money has been well spent on fear mongering
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
I'm a political junkie
It's a hobby, along with my other dozen hobbies

It's part of my atheist religion that dictates I be a vigil skeptic and challenge all BS.

But I get most my info from Progressive radio, broadcast on channel 127 Siris/XM, which is awesome, but I only listen while in my car or on the throne, which sometimes amounts to many hours a day

They help lead me to other sites that I can find more detailed info.
I make sure to check where the info comes from...

You have to be always skeptical of deception

You do know that the media lies?
The right wing media is practically pure lies.

vvvv
No, background checks on ammunition are not the same as a ban on guns
The slippery slope argument is just more fear mongering

It should be harder to shoot your gun in California

go shoot it in Arizona, they love shooting guns there

Hope you love Gavin Newsom as much as the rest of us do, such a great advocate for the people! Our Next Governor, Yea!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 4, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
Guyman and Craig, Gavin Newsom is behind a bill currently in Cal to make background checks mandatory for AMMUNITION purchases, as well as guns. A little too much more needless beurocracy, regulation making it harder to shoot my guns.

That's Guy's first step he's talking about.
John M

climber
May 4, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
how plausible does this sound?

Cruz and Kasich drop out..


to make way and give time for the media to rip Trump a new one. Trumps numbers plummet, and the GOP pushes him to bow out making way for... who? Bush? GOP so grateful that its not Trump, they rally behind Bush.


maybe even Cruz and Kasich are convinced to bow out now so that this has time to develop, maybe even given promises that they will have a better shot at the job once Trump bows out.

Heh heh.. this is getting funny.


Bush can't beat Hillary, but just before Dem convention Hillary is indicted for some Trumped up charges, and has to bow out to Sanders.

Sanders is deemed a socialist and Bush can beat Sanders.

Next Pres.. another Bush.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
Bluering
How are you going to vote on Legalizing Marijuana in California?
Yes or No
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 4, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
^^^^
Some people believe the government was behind 9/11 and other ludicrous conspiracy theories. There's a wealth of these ignorant people and Trump will harvest them to the tune of getting 45% of the vote in Nov.
John M

climber
May 4, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
Hillary being elected also sort of balances out the two sides. The repubs control the house. The dems the presidency and the senate. Not much gets done unless both sides sort of agree. So we get half assed programs like Obamacare that continue to flood money to the insurance industry.

I mostly agree with you Werner. I definitely believe that the powers behind the scene are manipulating things. I just also know that weird things keep happening and The country seems ripe for something bizarre to happen. Like Trump being the next Prez..
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 4, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
This means that with the current national debt around $19,177,540,410,605.90, we're adding $3,216,837,176.72 per day, or $37,231.91 per second.

None of your "facts and figures" and hand-waving about them can offset the FACT that you claimed that three repubs were responsible for over 95% of the national debt, and there is simply NO way that's mathematically possible, given that we're $19 trillion in debt and OBAMBA contributed almost $6 trillion of it by himself.

Add in the basically $1 trillion at the "start" as you have it, and that's about $7 trillion of the $19 trillion that cannot be attributed to the repubs. So, you do the math (if you can), and you'll see that your 95+% claim is not just wrong, it's laughably, absurdly wrong.

Again, I'm not saying that the repubs have done well by us. But neither has Obama! So, don't single the repubs out for special condemnation. They ALL spend! They just have their own "special" ways of raping us.

Anyway, again, your hand-waving does not stand in for a simple admission that you were spewing BS. No, instead you just keep spewing and priding yourself on spreading "info and facts." LOL
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 05:54pm PT
Personal attacks on such a nice calm thread!!!
I didn't respond because I was correct from the start.

OK Ted
I will play your game
check this link and then come back

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/07/24/opinion/sunday/24editorial_graph2.html?ref=Sunday

and you never commented specifically on the ReaganBush debt Calculations.

instead it was just more repetitive BS of known lies that the Repubs have spread about Obama's huge debt increase.

vvv
Thanks John

vvv
Pyro is a source alright.
John M

climber
May 4, 2016 - 05:59pm PT
mad.. what he is saying is that the policies they started led to that much debt. much like even if a republican president was elected next, they might not be able to completely undo obamacare. So would the cost of that be attributed to Obama or the next prez..

not that I agree with the figures.. But Obama did inherit a big problem. So I don't put all of the debt that occurred during his presidency to him. How much? I don't know.

you don't just turn around a broken economy overnight, nor withdraw from a war.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 4, 2016 - 06:04pm PT

Guy, where do you get your info from besides Fox News and Alex Jones?
Brietbart?ere

Pyro, at Stoney Pt.
Norton

Social climber
May 4, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
oh, are we back to grade school now trying really hard to pin the "debt" on Republicans?

Yes, it is true that our constitution says that the House of Representatives is where "spending" originate, and yes the House has been firmly in Republican hand since 2010.

And yes, the House Republicans have voted yes to Federal spending and yes they have knowingly refused to be responsible and cut spending, hence the annual deficit
and every year that deficit gets added to the National Debt

in addition, the US Senate has been in the control of the Republicans since 2014

so don't fall for the immature, grade school level logic of crying about Republican Spending, they love America and mean well, they just can't help themselves, ok?

oh, and tell me again what is THE big downside to US Government Debt?
high interest rates you say?
then explain why interest rates are at the lowest level in history, go ahead, explain
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 4, 2016 - 06:14pm PT

The media got their man as a candidate. I view their actions in 2016 no different from those of the "journalism" that used the sinking of the "Maine" in 1898 to start the Spanish-American War. Hearst allegedly hoped to start a war to sell newspapers. In any case, both in 1898 and 2016, the media companies were simply trying to generate interest in their product, at the expense of the good of the Republic.
John

I agree. I remember reading, about three months ago, that Leslie Moonves(the head of CBS) loved trump because he brought in advertising dollars. No other candidate generated that much revenue.


I'm hoping that Hillary's tilt to the left in order to deal with the Sandersnistas can tack back to the center, where I think she would most likely end up anyway, for the general election. She may not need to, though. On trade issues, Trump has outflanked her to the left. In any case, she now has my vote barring some miraculous influx of intelligence between now and the Republican convention.
John

She will have to, and will do it after the convention.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
The Democrats had only 27 working days in 2009 of their so called "Super Majority"
when there were 58 Democrat Senators
and 2 Independents that caucused with the Democrats
giving them a compromised super majority

and also had a Democratic House at that time
Then Ted Kennedy died.

So we are very disappointed that the Democrats weren't able to repeal all of the Reagan/Bush policies that are screwing us during those 27 days
but since it was during another Republican caused economic crisis, saving the economy from complete disaster was a consideration.

Every other day other than those 27, Republicans in the Senate have obstructed all of Obama's policies.

If you could, please tell us what good policies have the Republicans in control of Congress have done for you during the last 16 years?
Are you making more money?
Have the job creators given you a great new job?
How have all these great conservative policies delivered as promised?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 4, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
If you could, please tell us what good policies have the Republicans in control of Congress have done for you during the last 16 years?
Are you making more money?
Have the job creators given you a great new job?
How have all these great conservative policies delivered as promised?

Well, I retired in 2005, so I'm not sure is answers your question.

But in that interval I'm making way more money than I did when I was working.

This year I will be paying taxes on $1500 of earned income. I spent more on really good beer this year.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 07:41pm PT
Can you show me where Republicans had any thing to do with your Blissful lifestyle?

My blissfulness is definitely not due to any Republican policies.
It is in spite of it.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 4, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
From ST's most venerable, articulate conservative:

"That gripe notwithstanding, I have to confess I was wrong, and most of you were right -- the Republican Party today is dominated by imbeciles and fools."


Which results in this dawning over the head of another ST conservative:

"John..... so you will pull the leaver for Hillery????????????????????"



zBrown

Ice climber
May 4, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
As if the ST forum carries a lot of political weight.


madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 4, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
mad.. what he is saying is that the policies they started led to that much debt.

I totally agree, John. I'm not missing that point. I'm pressing CF on the fact that he commonly waves his hands all around to make "info and facts" points that are NOT. They are largely interpretational, yet he attempts to browbeat others with his "superior" KNOWLEDGE that really is not.

When called on it, he simply waves his hands all the more.

In FACT, by any interpretation of the numbers, it's an outrageous stretch of interpretation to claim that three repubs were responsible for 95+% of our debt problem. Yet, CF touts this as "info and facts."

How much? I don't know.

And that is the point! I totally respect that sort of circumspection regarding "facts" (in scare quotes) that rely HEAVILY on interpretation and presumptions.

We would do much better on these politard threads if we treated those who don't agree with our INTERPRETATIONS as having a modicum of intelligence and their own decent interpretive ability. CF's motif is to perpetually treat his "opponents" as though they are far too stupid to see what is obvious for any thinking person to see.

In the vast majority of cases, I don't agree with his perspectives merely because I don't agree with his interpretations (and those he cites) of the objective facts (which are themselves few and far between).

Among people on these threads, I can only think of a couple that I sincerely wonder about their basic intelligence (CF is not included among them). In general, our disagreements are indeed substantive but not based upon what I take to be stupidity or some moral failing!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 08:16pm PT
You couldn't see that Obama was not responsible for the huge debt you accused him of

so what am I to say when you accuse me of being stupid for telling you were wrong

I could point to where you are wrong on most of your rants, but don't bother mixing it up with you Ted because it always leads to huge blow outs such as above

which have done nothing for your credibility
zBrown

Ice climber
May 4, 2016 - 08:16pm PT
Trump is in no significant way different from the Little Peckerwood.




BTW, he didn't win either.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 4, 2016 - 08:17pm PT


Too funny LOL..
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 4, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
Whatever, mb. Bottom line is this:

'the policies they started led to that much debt."


Now follow that simple statement up with another 2000 word post. The fact will remain the same.

Edit: pyro, your screen capture method is hilarious.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 4, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
Obama was not the cause of the huge debt you accused him of

Cite what I said when I supposedly did this.

And, in fact, you don't (nor does anybody else) KNOW what the causes are.

Which is my point regarding both sides of the aisle.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 4, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
Now follow that simple statement up with another 2000 word post.

No need in this case....

The fact will remain the same.

Your finding some heavily-interpreted "fact" on the Interwebs does not establish an objective fact.

Causality in the most obvious of cases is difficult to establish, and proximate causes are always heavily-interpreted. In the case of economic/political causes, only God knows (if she exists, right?). If God doesn't know, then nobody does.

The across-the-aisle blame-game is a complete waste of time. The parties have us chasing our tails and bashing on each other. Meanwhile, this election cycle has (partially) revealed just how utterly self-serving and corrupt they are.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
Oh come on
do you think we're stupid

I quote: Barack Obama - The national debt grew the most dollar-wise during President Obama's term. He added $6.494 trillion, a 56% increase, in seven years.
Ted

a 56% increase is what you said was due to Obama
I proved you WRONG

you have no real grasp on the truth in politics, just a bunch of right wing talking points that you turn into a WOT
and saying they are the same just magnifies your ignorance

Republicans ran up 93.6% of the debt, admit it or lie about it

vvv
Charles did not say he would vote for Hillary
He just said that Hillary would be better than trump
He's got some evil plans up his sleeves, just wait for it,
oh wait, it will be very secretive
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 4, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
Doesn't matter.

Charly Koch is voting for Hillary.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 4, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
Yeah, Koch had the same kinda comments about Romney, then dumped Million$ into the race. He'll come around to Trump's 'Art of the Deal'.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 09:08pm PT
A Racist, Sexist Lying Con Man Sits Atop The Party Of Lincoln

Congratulations, America.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist_us_572a105fe4b096e9f08fd0c9

As a candidate, Trump has encouraged his supporters to beat up members of the Black Lives Matter movement who protest his rallies, calling them “outside agitators,” the term used 50 years ago to describe civil rights activists in the Deep South.

“I love the old days,” Trump said in February. “You know what they used to do to [protesters] like that when they were in a place like this? They’d be carried out on a stretcher.”

Trump also uses social media to share racist messages with his more than 6 million followers. He tweeted this wildly inaccurate fake crime statistic in November 2015.
photo

But Trump’s open racism should come as no surprise. Many people learn how to approach the world from their parents. Trump’s father, Fred Trump, was arrested at a Ku Klux Klan rally in 1927. None other than the great political songwriter Woody Guthrie singled Fred Trump out as a vicious racist. In the 1970s, Trump and his father were sued by the Justice Department for systematically refusing to rent their apartments to black tenants. A decade later, Trump took out full-page ads calling for the execution of five young black men who were accused — falsely, it turned out — of raping and savagely beating a jogger in Central Park.

Trump’s racially tinged presidential campaign is part of a continuum that goes back to the 1980s and a refinement of the Southern strategy, a political plan devised by former Reagan campaign guru Lee Atwater and former Nixon aide Roger Stone, according to Trump biographer Wayne Barrett.

“The Southern strategy was, ‘Let’s make the Democrats the black party and the Republicans the white party,’” Barrett said in an interview. “Trump was very close to the Reagan people.”


Trump’s racism has expanded in recent years. These days, Trump targets Hispanic people, Arabs and Muslims, Native American tribes and Chinese companies with the same menacing, exclusionary language he once reserved for blacks.

Trump’s campaign took off last summer, when he claimed that Mexico was sending “crime” and “rapists” to the U.S. Only a “wall” could stop the onslaught, Trump said. Shortly after that, two Trump supporters in Boston beat up a homeless man who looked Hispanic. Trump said his supporters are sometimes “passionate.”

Trump’s proposed wall is also meant to keep out Muslims, part of his call for a blanket ban on Muslims entering the U.S. There are more than 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, of all races and nationalities. Trump would ban them all.

“I think Islam hates us,” the billionaire told CNN’s Anderson Cooper in March. “And we can’t allow people coming into this country who have this hatred of the United States.”

To bolster his case, Trump repeats debunked conspiracy theories and claims — falsely — that “thousand and thousands” of Muslims in New Jersey cheered the 9/11 attacks.

The fervor of Trump’s hatred for Muslims has real-world consequences. Last week, a Trump supporter assaulted a Muslim woman in a Washington cafe. According to reports, the assailant said, “F-ing Muslim. Trash, worthless piece of Muslim trash …. I’m going to vote for [Donald Trump] so he can send all of you all back to where you came from.”

Long before Trump painted Muslims and Hispanics as the invading enemy, he attacked Native American tribes, whose casinos might compete with his own. In 2000, Trump took out newspaper ads that claimed the Mohawk tribe in New York had “a record of drug trafficking, money laundering, smuggling illegal immigrants in the United States and violence.”

Fifteen years later, Trump would use the same accusations to stoke fear of Hispanics among Republican voters.

“What he’s doing now is using racism as the clear underpinning of his campaign and his successful bid for the nomination,” said Barrett, author of “Trump: The Greatest Show on Earth: The Deals, the Downfall, the Reinvention.”

“If the Republicans, and Trump, have any chance of success, it’s by exploiting people’s fears about the brown people,” Barrett said.

The same combination of fear and meanness that characterizes Trump’s racism extends to his sexism.

“You have to treat ‘em like sh#t,” Trump once said of women. As a presidential candidate, he’s lived up to this motto, insulting rival Carly Fiorina for her “face,” making a gross bathroom joke about Fox journalist Megyn Kelly, and posting photos of his wife, a former model, alongside photos of rival Sen. Ted Cruz’s wife, a former national security adviser.


read more...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 4, 2016 - 09:12pm PT

Long before he ran for president, Trump made a habit of portraying women as predators, gold diggers and sluts. “I have seen women manipulate men with just a twitch of their eye — or perhaps another body part,” Trump wrote in his best-selling book, “The Art of the Deal.”

Married three times, Trump’s unwanted sexual advances on women have been the subject of lawsuits. His ex-wife, Ivana Trump, used the word “rape” to describe how she felt after a particularly rough encounter with her then-husband.

On the subject of rape, Trump has a record of laying blame squarely on the victim.

Earlier this year, when Trump’s presidential campaign manager grabbed and bruised a reporter, Trump accused the woman of being “delusional,” and asked, “How do you know those bruises weren’t there before?”

Trump’s strategy of attacking the victim extends to legal proceedings, including multiple lawsuits against him alleging fraud and racketeering involving Trump University, the for-profit real estate school he created. “I can turn anyone into a successful real estate investor, including you,” Trump said in a promotional brochure.

But that’s not what happened to the more than 5,000 individuals who are plaintiffs in a class-action lawsuit against Trump and Trump University in California, alleging fraud and false advertising. In New York, Attorney General Eric Schneiderman is suing the now-shuttered Trump U for alleged fraud. Either of these suits could land Trump in open court as a witness as early as this summer.

Trump, like many business titans, is no stranger to the inside of a courtroom. Trump and his companies have settled allegations of hiring discrimination, violating laws that protect returning military veterans, stealing competitors’ secrets, defrauding property owners and investors, making false claims about their success, breaking contracts, collusion and negligence.

Still, Trump claims that he never settles lawsuits, and as a candidate, he likes to compare his defense against fraud charges to America’s national defense. “The United States should fight back also,” he said recently in a video about the Trump University suits. “We shouldn’t just be settlers, we should fight back. And do what’s right.”

To that end, Trump has said he could use the same strong-arm tactics he employs in landlord-tenant disputes to bend other nations to his will.

Topping his list of adversarial countries, after Mexico, is China, which Trump portrays as a crafty thief and a thug, stealing jobs from America’s manufacturing sector. “We can’t continue to allow China to rape our country, and that’s what they’re doing,” Trump said during a rally last week in Indiana.

Elsewhere in Asia, Trump wants to provide nuclear weapons to Japan and South Korea to counter the threat of the North Korean hermit kingdom. To do so would effectively set off a nuclear arms race in Asia, not to mention that it would violate the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.

Trump also has other ideas that would violate international treaties and laws. He would order soldiers to kill the families of those involved in terror plots, even if their relatives had nothing to do with the crimes.

He’s an avid supporter of torture, which he said is an effective tool in the fight against terrorism. “Only a stupid person would say it doesn’t work,” he said of waterboarding in late 2015. Even “if it doesn’t work, they deserve it anyway for what they’re doing to us.” A few months later, Trump told a crowd in New Hampshire, “I would bring back waterboarding. And I’d bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding.”

One person who knows about a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding is Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), the 2008 Republican presidential nominee. The son of a Naval officer, McCain was captured while serving in Vietnam. He refused an offer of early release as part of a prisoner swap, and was imprisoned and tortured for more than five years.

In January, Trump was asked if he believed that McCain was a war hero. “He’s not a war hero,” Trump scoffed. “He’s a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren’t captured.”

Whether American soldiers would obey orders from a Commander In Chief Trump is another story. Top national security officers said point blank that U.S. forces wouldn’t follow an illegal order. But Trump doesn’t seem to care. “They won’t refuse,” he said in February. “They’re not gonna refuse me. Believe me. I’m a leader, I’ve always been a leader. I’ve never had any problem leading people. If I say do it, they’re going to do it.”

And with Trump, that’s the danger — that anyone, let alone a grand old party, would do what he says.

Speaking to a crowd in January, Trump said his popularity with voters was so rock solid that not even murder could sway his supporters to turn from him. “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot people and I wouldn’t lose voters,” he said.

He may be right.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 4, 2016 - 09:25pm PT
Craig Fry... Nobody's oerfect.. rj
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 4, 2016 - 10:49pm PT
Reagan really and then W's mishandling of the economy and pre-emptive wars screwed the pooch in ways that we'll be digging out from for another decade.

Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 4, 2016 - 11:14pm PT
If it makes anyone feel better, China's debt (you know, the country that is supposedly kicking our economic ass) is now around 260% of GDP.

http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-china-debt-in-charts-2016-5?r=UK&IR=T

Curt
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 5, 2016 - 01:45am PT
Accounting for money has been relegated to mathematical truth

The discussion was not about "accounting for money." The discussion was about economic causes. And trying to "lay blame" on this or that president for the "causes" of this or that other president's debt is a fool's errand.

I'll say again, the blame-game is pure partisan tail-chasing. And as long as we're fundamentally partisan, corruption wins. Neither party is serving us, as this election cycle made too obvious to ignore.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 05:59am PT
I'm pressing CF on the fact that he commonly waves his hands all around to make "info and facts" points that are NOT. They are largely interpretational, yet he attempts to browbeat others with his "superior" KNOWLEDGE that really is not.

When called on it, he simply waves his hands all the more.

Crack me up.

You nailed it.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 06:09am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

May 4, 2016 - 08:23pm PT

Republicans ran up 93.6% of the debt, admit it or lie about it

I'd love to know how you came up with that.

Are the Reps to blame if a Repub is in The White House and Dems control the House? How about if there's a Dem in The White house, with Repubs controlling the House? Still Repubs fault?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 5, 2016 - 07:04am PT
Let the back peddle begin

55ft wall sounds better and better


http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/05/04/president-fox-apologizes-invites-trump-mexico/
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 5, 2016 - 07:15am PT
That wall is the same as the thousands of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating 9/11 - a figment of this bigoted idiot's vivid imagination.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 5, 2016 - 07:44am PT
The people I am working with are just like me - educated, smart, friendly... -MilkProud!

If only those Mexicans were on the ball like you, eh?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 5, 2016 - 07:52am PT
I love how Craig Fry accuses MB1 for posting a WOT, then posts a cut and paste that's 2-pages long that aren't even his own thoughts, it's nothing more than Captain Google spewing.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 07:58am PT
Curt posted
If it makes anyone feel better, China's debt (you know, the country that is supposedly kicking our economic ass) is now around 260% of GDP.

It shouldn't. China's economy collapsing would send us into a depression.




Pat Buchanan made it extremely clear in an interview this morning that "Make America Great Again" actually means "Make America White Again." Why do people keep insisting that Trump's success has anything to do with race?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 5, 2016 - 08:01am PT
Escopeta i love how crankloon equates building a wall to being a bigot.. last time i checked we are a country and have all rights to protect its border.. DUHH..
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 5, 2016 - 08:08am PT
DMT, corruption is hardly unique in causation or occurrence as a function of Spanish
catholicism. Africa, after the colonialists left, has always carried the torch without serious
competition although many an Asian nation (India springs to mind) do aspire to the inimitable
legacies of Mobutu and Mugabe. My wife loves to tell the story of her beloved Cameroun
when the Germans offered to build an autobahn of considerable length and leave their
heavy equipment when they were done. The venal gubmint parasites saw there was little in
this for them so they figured they had to charge the Germans the usual unconscionable
import duties to stuff their pockets with. The Germans said "Vee don't play zat game so you
can go phuk yerselves.". It would be many years before the road got built and you can rest
assured it wasn't to autobahn standards. LOL
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 08:13am PT
DMT, corruption is hardly unique in causation or occurrence as a function of Spanish catholicism.

Right. It's about all those non-whites being uncivil barbarians.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 08:15am PT
Sometimes a good ol' worm beats a pricey crankbait.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 5, 2016 - 08:15am PT
No, it's about people in power taking advantage of the people they're supposedly serving.
At some point you gotta let go of the excuses and face reality.

Also, Edward, we suffered under the colonial yoke so why aren't we rife with corruption?
Not enough Catholics?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 08:17am PT
Sketch
all you have to do is look back a couple pages to find the source of the info, is that too hard?

Eskochea
That WOT was for Klimmer
It ravages Trump's personality into the an evil con man that would make any Christian a complete fool to believe a single word out of his mouth.

But he won't read it, he still thinks that G-d will change Trump into his personal savior.
Did you read it?

You don't like other people's words? How is it possible to bring in fresh info then? I could never write something like that, since I'm not a professional journalist paid to investigate these things.

And Ted is still raving mad, about what? who knows?
I guess he doesn't like being told he's wrong, nor will he ever admit it.
He will just skirt around the issue until he finds a way to spin it to come out on top.
The top of what is the question, it sure isn't the top truth teller.
Very few here agree with him, but he sure can spin in circles 000

I like how he calls posting "documented facts" hand waving.
I guess he just waves them off, like mosquitos.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 08:20am PT
Sketch
I spared you the bother
here it is again

ReaganBushDebt.org Calculation Details


According to http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm, the debt at the end of the 1980 fiscal year, on September 30th, 1980, was $907,701,000,000. On September 30th, 1981, it was $997,855,000,000. Averaging it out over the year gives a debt of $246,997,260.27 per day.

Reagan took office 112 days later on January 20th, 1981. The debt on that date could be estimated as $907,701,000,000 plus 112 x $246,997,260.27, or $935,364,693,151.

Bill Clinton was the first president to slow the rate of the accrual of debt after the current out-of-control spending began with the Borrow and Spend Republicans in 1981.

The final amount of the senior Bush debt was $4,174,218,594,232.91 (according to http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np);, and Clinton became president on January 20th, 1993. Bill Clinton saw $1,553,558,144,071.73 added to the national debt during the eight years of his presidency.

However, from the start of fiscal year 1994 (7 months after Clinton became president), until the start of fiscal year 2002 (7 months after Bush took office), the amount of money paid toward interest on the existing Federal debt was $2,767,282,794,374.59 (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm);.

Therefore, no amount of the national debt is attributable to Bill Clinton - his policies of higher taxes and reduced spending actually simultaneously reduced the debt and brought about the strongest economy since World War II, despite the fiscal disaster left in the wake of Reagan and the first Bush.

The debt was at $5,727,776,738,304.64 on January 19th, 2001, the last business day before George W. Bush took the office of president. The debt was at $10,628,881,485,510.23 on January 16th, 2009, the last business day before Barack H. Obama became president.

During his administration, George W. Bush
increased the national debt by $4,901,104,747,205.59
and personally approved of the creation of 46% of the entire national debt,
in only 8 years.

Starting in 2003, George W. Bush destroyed the world economy by encouraging U.S. banks to make loans to those who could not afford them, through schemes such as the "American Dream Downpayment Initiative", and through the elimination of oversight, such as lawsuits to prevent state securities laws from being enforced on Bush's watch. Once Bush's policies led to their inevitable result of economic collapse, the United States found itself in a situation where it had to increase the size of the annual Federal budget in order to support and restore the economy, and then sustain that budget, to avoid another collapse.

The result of George W. Bush's Borrow-And-Spend Republicanism was a 2009 annual Federal government budget of $3,517,677,000,000, and an economy too weak to avoid recession from cutting that budget.

President Barack Obama took four years to cut the deficit in half from 2009 levels, and is on track to lower the deficit throughout his term (http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist01z1.xls);.

That means that Ronald Wilson Reagan, George Herbert Walker Bush, and George Walker Bush's Borrow-And-Spend Republican administrations oversaw, approved, or caused to be spent, almost all of the national debt, except for as much as $1,221,051,693,151.00.

The current calculation on the site is based on the U.S. Treasury's published Total Public Debt Outstanding as of Tuesday, May 03, 2016, when the debt was $19,171,815,928,698.80. On Tuesday, September 04, 2007, the debt was $8,995,145,905,720.62.

This means that with the current national debt around $19,179,362,535,289.20, we're adding $3,216,393,812.57 per day, or $37,226.78 per second.


http://reaganbushdebt.org/CalculationDetails.aspx
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 5, 2016 - 08:21am PT
pyromaniac, you are hopeless, just like your savior. Thing is, he knows that wall of his isn't going to be built, much less Mexico paying for it. Fear and resentment, man, you got it in spades. I think your head has already exploded.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 5, 2016 - 08:24am PT
Sometimes a good ol' worm beats a pricey crankbait.


Quite often the case. Pretty f*#king profound too...(for those not in-the-know, a "crankbait" is a fishing lure).

EDIT: From MB1

And as long as we're fundamentally partisan, corruption wins.

Another gem from this discussion. Very true.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 5, 2016 - 08:32am PT
Trump AND Clinton are both corporate whores
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 08:33am PT
So edgy
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 08:34am PT
Here is a good analogy of our partisan divide

One side touts the dangers of smoking
The other side touts the benefits of smoking

Science verses moneyed interest's IS the partisan gap

Bluering, along with the rest of the conservatives/libertarians are doing nothing more than touting the benefits of smoking
dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 08:35am PT
Let's not forget that trump got his political start in 2011 as a leading birther, a movement that is about racism and bigotry, and which various people here supported.

He's been appealing to racists all along. There are good reasons why the kkk identifies with this quasi-fascist huckster.

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 5, 2016 - 08:44am PT
Trump doesn't poll well in all racist groups.

La Raza won't be voting for him, and neither will the black supremacists, such as Black Lives Matter.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 08:46am PT

last time i checked we are a country and have all rights to protect its border.. DUHH..

That's what we have a border patrol for, but you're right, I hate all those Mexicans at Stoney Pt.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 5, 2016 - 08:51am PT
One side touts the dangers of smoking
The other side touts the benefits of smoking

So how do you explain Gov Moonbeam's refusal to sign an increase in tobacco taxes to pay
for healthcare? He said:

"Although California has one of the lowest cigarette tax rates in the nation, I am reluctant
to approve this measure in view of all the taxes being proposed for the 2016 ballot."

WTF? Does he have Alzheimer's? He allows the legalization of pot but basically condones
tobacco? He taxes the sh!t out of us for gas but continues "one of the lowest cigarette tax
rates in the nation"? That is some twisted logic!
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 08:55am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

May 5, 2016 - 08:20am PT
Sketch
I spared you the bother
here it is again

ReaganBushDebt.org Calculation Details

Wow! I'm guessing you think that's a fair assessment.

Unbelievable. LMAO
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 08:55am PT
The partisan divide maintains the status quo

as long as the fools are touting the benefits of smoking, and screaming bloody murder if they try and restrict their freedoms to smoke all the cigarettes they want

the partisan divide will remain, and no action will be taken

Hence, the millions of dollars spent on BS that the conservatives were sold and bought, will in the end provide billions in profits for the corporations.

and the other side gets nothing except the visual of science going down the tubes once again because of corruption on the right.


Hey Sketch
if you think it's so funny
prove it to be wrong
I think you're pretty funny for being wrong on Climate Change
since only the moneyed interests agree with you.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 5, 2016 - 08:58am PT
I asked you to explain the Moonbeam's logic, not give me a wall of text of meaningless blather.
couchmaster

climber
May 5, 2016 - 09:00am PT
So Craig, you are saying that GW Bush raised the debt $5 trillion, and Obama raised the debt $8 trillion plus. Thanks for clarifying that. Current debt per taxpayer is $161,000. That number was $45,000 when Obama took over.


"The debt was at $5,727,776,738,304.64 on January 19th, 2001, the last business day before George W. Bush took the office of president. The debt was at $10,628,881,485,510.23 on January 16th, 2009, the last business day before Barack H. Obama became president."

Barack H. Obama in it was $10,628,881,485,510.23
Currently is it.................... $19,267,000,000,000.00 rounded off from source: http://www.usdebtclock.org/ which is still going up rapidly.

You know, a Trillion dollars here and a Trillion dollars there, pretty soon its gonna add up to real money. (Tip of the hat to Everette Dirkson for that)
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 09:01am PT
I'm terrified Trump may be our next President. It scares the crap out of me. But I realize it's a possibility, which is far different from the dominant mindset in this thread. You guys keep going round and round about why he's so un-electable. It seems your trying to convince yourselves more than anyone else.

Trump bagged the nomination the day before Cinco De Mayo. Poetic justice? Cruel irony? I guess it depends on your opinion of Trump.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 09:03am PT
Couch
No, that is not what I said
I said the total Obama debt is $1.2 trillion out of the $19 trillion

why deceive?
are you a lair?
do you know how the Congress works?
it appears that you don't with your posts


93.6% of the debt is due to Republican policies, it's as simple as that
I wonder why they don't worry about spending so much and creating such a huge debt that they won't pay down?
And I wonder why they shift the blame onto Obama?
Because they lie, that's why.

if you don't believe me
please post the exact spending of Obama's policies that racked up more debt than I quoted.

and I wasn't responding to Reilly's question,
why bother
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 09:10am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

I think you're pretty funny for being wrong on Climate Change
since only the moneyed interests agree with you.

Classic Craig. Taking the low road.

I'm still laughing.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 09:12am PT
The truth is hard to take, isn't it Sketch

at least I didn't lie about it
If I lied, then it would a personal attack.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 5, 2016 - 09:17am PT
From the OC Weekly

http://www.ocweekly.com/news/why-oc-weeklys-cover-this-week-features-a-donkey-drumpf-ing-trump-7166923?utm_source=Newsletters&utm_medium=email


Yes, that is a Democratic ass on top of Donald Trump on the cover of this week's dead-tree Weekly. And it’s only fitting: For more than a year, the presumptive GOP presidential nominee has peddled all sorts of nasty myths against Mexicans, from painting undocumented immigrants as rapists and Typhoid Marias to insisting a massive wall on the U.S.-Mexico border will make America great again. His campaign has grown as grotesque as a donkey show, those Tijuana spectacles that exist only in the fevered minds of gabachos, and it made a stop in Costa Mesa last week, with Trump the featured star and the Weekly documenting every scream, punch and lie. So it’s also only fitting legendary cartoonista Lalo Alcaraz capture the moment, you know? Besides, Democrats violating Trump from behind is what he can expect when he faces Hillary Clinton come November. Enjoy our package, and don't forget to register to vote!

BTW, the idea for this cover came from our former sister paper the Riverfront Times, who infamously had the Democratic donkey humping former Missouri congressman Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akins on its cover in 2012—good stuff!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 09:19am PT
That's the OC Weekly
not the Register

But it's awesome
I will save it for future fun
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 5, 2016 - 09:31am PT
why bother

Because the Moonbeam's logic is so perfect it doesn't need clarification or you can't bring
yerself to criticize any member of yer team? I give him much credit on various things, but
if yer tenuous grasp of reality is so fraught with insecurity such that admitting any democrat
could do anything less than perfectly then you make my point for me. Thank you.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 09:33am PT
So you want the Governor to raise cigarette taxes
good for you

sign a petition

I don't know what the details of the Governors plan are, so it would be foolish to say anything about it
there are other tax increase, maybe they have something to do with it

I'm not going to go off the rails about cigarette taxes that I know nothing about no matter good the sound

don't you think you are being a little overly dramatic?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 09:36am PT
The debt was at $5,727,776,738,304.64 on January 19th, 2001, the last business day before George W. Bush took the office of president. The debt was at $10,628,881,485,510.23 on January 16th, 2009, the last business day before Barack H. Obama became president.

During his administration, George W. Bush
increased the national debt by $4,901,104,747,205.59
and personally approved of the creation of 46% of the entire national debt,in only 8 years.

The debt was at $10,626,877,048,913.00 on January 20th, 2009, the last business day before Barack H. Obama took the office of president. The debt was at $19,171,815,928,698.00 on May 3rd, 2016.

During his administration, Barack H. Obama has increased the national debt by over eight and a half Trillion dollars and personally approved of the creation of over 40 of the entire national debt in less than 7 1/2 years.

Good for the goose...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 09:38am PT
No
WRONG

read my posts again

That debt was not caused by Obama's policies, it was all debt worked into the system by Republican Congress and President policies, except the 6.4%

You didn't quote a single cent that Obama was responsible for

go back and try again


That's like blaming Obama for Gitmo and Iraq
He inherited the debt from the Republicans that approved it.

Has he not cut wasteful spending?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 09:46am PT
I get it.

Here were are... 7+ years into Obama's presidency.... and it's still Bush's fault.

Earlier, I asked:

Are the Reps to blame if a Repub is in The White House and Dems control the House? How about if there's a Dem in The White house, with Repubs controlling the House? Still Repubs fault?

Thanks for clearing that up.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 5, 2016 - 09:47am PT
Fry, you brought up the partisan nature of smoking but when pressed to explain yerself you
go through all manner of sophistic machinations to avoid a substantive discussion to the
point of implying that smoking and taxes are beneath you cause they're too trivial for yer
high-minded pontificating. You're all the things you accuse yer Republican boogey men of.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 5, 2016 - 09:48am PT
Let's not forget that there are still a few months left in Obeezy's term so he may make the $10 trillion dollar goal yet.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 09:55am PT
I was using the smoking analogy to show how the divide works

science vs. moneyed interests

that was it's only purpose

if you think Brown is serving the smoking interests,
I would say I disagree
higher taxes sales taxes hurt the poor more than anyone else

and do you really think higher taxes will stop people from smoking?


But to be consistent, and make you happy

F-ing Moonbeam, he should raise the taxes, he's a turncoat, he sold out, impeach HIM, Where is that petition to sign!!!

Happy now?
what a crock of sh#t

just because you say he isn't raising taxes on cigarettes
do you see how silly this all is

I'm not even sure any of this is true or not,
I didn't read what Jerry said.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 5, 2016 - 10:00am PT

WTF? Does he have Alzheimer's? He allows the legalization of pot but basically condones
tobacco? He taxes the sh!t out of us for gas but continues "one of the lowest cigarette tax
rates in the nation"? That is some twisted logic!


Do not try to make logical sense of these things, it won't work. When corruption and lobbyists enter the fray, logic goes out the window.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 10:07am PT
Maybe the taxes on pot will be a windfall

I'm sure Bluering will be happy of all the new tax revenue making our State stronger than ever

How are you voting on this Bluering
legal, yes or no
Norton

Social climber
May 5, 2016 - 10:08am PT
Do not try to make logical sense of these things, it won't work. When corruption and lobbyists enter the fray, logic goes out the window.

agreed, Bluering!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 5, 2016 - 10:12am PT
How are you voting on this Bluering
legal, yes or no

Prolly go yes on legalization. I'd have to see the bill, but I'm in favor of marijuana decriminalization. Controlled legalization.

But I digress...
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 10:15am PT
EdwardT posted
Here were are... 7+ years into Obama's presidency.... and it's still Bush's fault.

No, you're right. Obama invaded Iraq and started Gitmo. What were we thinking? Obamaaaaaaaaa!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 10:29am PT
Donald Trump is totally not Sarah Palin, ok? Not the same person. Totally different, better candidate and ready to debate the issues.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

He was asking me a theoretical, or just a question in theory, and I talked about it only from that standpoint. Of course not. And that was done, he said, you know, I guess it was theoretically, but he was asking me a rhetorical question, and I gave an answer. And by the way, people thought from an academic standpoint, and asked rhetorically, people said that answer was an unbelievable academic answer. But of course not, and I said that afterwards. Everybody understands that.


This is a decisive leader who makes clear headed decisions. We can look forward to a bold, executive leadership style when he is President.

dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 10:30am PT
Obama is also responsible for the housing bust and the Great Recession.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 10:34am PT
It's hard to believe Obama lent himself all those adjustable rate mortgages, bundled them and then sold them to Obama. What a dick that guy is.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 10:35am PT
Did somebody say Gitmo?

Sec. 3. Closure of Detention Facilities at Guantánamo. The detention facilities at Guantánamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than 1 year from the date of this order. If any individuals covered by this order remain in detention at Guantánamo at the time of closure of those detention facilities, they shall be returned to their home country, released, transferred to a third country, or transferred to another United States detention facility in a manner consistent with law and the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 10:45am PT
Ed- Do you even know what your point is?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 10:50am PT
That you ask is just plain sad.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 5, 2016 - 10:56am PT
Eleazarian, first you say the Repub party is indeed occppied by imbeciles and fools, and then go on to say that the problem with Cal Repubs is that they focus too much on being 'right', and not enough on winning.

As an independent conservative who votes with the Ca Repub party, I think that picking Trump over Cruz would be picking a winner over someone who may be more traditionally conservative.

I agree, Steve. Cruz is probably at least as unelectable as Trump. I find it hard to believe that an intelligent person who wants to elect a president more conservative than Hillary Clinton (yes, I know that's a pretty low bar) would support the only two Republican candidates most likely to lose to her.

Cruz is at least as unpopular among Republicans as Trump. His inability to compromise makes Obama look like Henry Clay, and his actions have done more to destroy the ability to win an election in which the Republicans should have coasted to a victory.

In answer to Guyman's question: Yes. I will vote for Hillary over Trump, even though I think her acts in a less partisan, more just administration, would already have resulted in indictment, prosecution and conviction not only on the Espionage Act violations, but on obstruction of justice charges. I would vote for Hillary for the same reason I voted for Nixon over McGovern -- I think the country will recover more quickly from a dishonest government than from an incompetent one.

Trump has no discernable policy except neo-isolationism, protectionism, and self-aggrandisement. Hillary, when freed from the need to appease the Sandersnistas, is generally an internationalist and a believer in the benefits of international trade. I shudder at her potential Supreme Court nominees, but Trump's judicial policy seems rather closer to hers than to, say, that of Ronald Reagan. Besides, Hillary lacks the inherent likeability of Obama. If she screws up the way this administration has -- and if a competent opposition party nominates a sensible candidate -- she'll get clobbered in 2020 the same way Carter did in 1980.

Finally, madbolter1, trying to convince true believing Democrats or Republicans of economic truth has as much chance of success as convincing a Dodgers fan of the mental and moral superiority of rooting for the Giants (true, but impossible to convince). We both have our own beleifs. The Democrats have repeated their mantra that the economic decline of this century is the logical consequence of the policies of the Reagan administration, exascerbated by those of the second Bush administration. We Republicans believe they were the logical consequence of an intrusive federal involvement in demanding that people own houses they could not afford.

As just one example of this difference, I offer the repeal of Glass-Steagall. When I ask the typical child of the left how that caused the housing bubble or worsened its consequences, I get a bunch of illogical gibberish which amounts to, at best, post hoc ergo propter hoc. They might as well ahve argued that our abandonment of the gold standard caused all our problems, given the lack of causation in their analyses.

While, when I'm motivated, I will call attention to their factual errors, I've come to realize more and more than both they and I have a certain view of the world, based on our personal experiences, that will cause us to come to different conclusions from the same data. That's why freedom of speech and freedom from thought police has such vital importance.

John
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 11:02am PT
Ed posted
That you ask is just plain sad.

Much like your posting.

John posted
His inability to compromise makes Obama look like Henry Clay

Yeah I can't believe Obama wouldn't compromise oh wait he literally implemented big chunks of the Republican agenda from the 1990's that liberal ideologue.


John posted
Finally, madbolter1, trying to convince true believing Democrats or Republicans of economic truth has as much chance of success as convincing a Dodgers fan of the mental and moral superiority of rooting for the Giants (true, but impossible to convince). We both have our own beleifs. The Democrats have repeated their mantra that the economic decline of this century is the logical consequence of the policies of the Reagan administration, exascerbated by those of the second Bush administration. We Republicans believe they were the logical consequence of an intrusive federal involvement in demanding that people own houses they could not afford.

There's no doubt that federal policies (with Bush's support for an "ownership society") contributed. The idea that it was too much intrusion as opposed to not enough oversight is just mind blowingly irrational, however. Even Greenspan admitted that he was wrong about this.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 5, 2016 - 11:16am PT
The idea that it was too much intrusion as opposed to not enough oversight is just mind blowingly irrational, however. Even Greenspan admitted that he was wrong about this.

I think, HDDJ, you're forgetting that those providing the oversight were the ones demanding more lending for housing. It wasn't so much too little oversight as incompetent and counterproductive oversight.

John
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 11:19am PT
I think, HDDJ, you're forgetting that those providing the oversight were the ones demanding more lending for housing. It wasn't so much too little oversight as incompetent and counterproductive oversight.

It's not quite that easy but in part true. The government lacked the power (much less resources) to actually regulate many of the products being sold on the markets. It also lacked the interest in that Republicans (and many Democrats) are more than happy to see the financial sector raking in mad cash.


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 5, 2016 - 11:38am PT
I find it hard to believe that an intelligent person who wants to elect a president more conservative than Hillary Clinton (yes, I know that's a pretty low bar) would support the only two Republican candidates most likely to lose to her.

I'm puzzled by this. A lot of speculation. And "real" Republicans with a chance to beat Hillary would give us what? More Republican BS? I wanted someone detached from the Repub machine (and DC in general), who was beholden more to the country than his party. That was Ben Carson, Ran Paul, Trump, Cruz.


In answer to Guyman's question: Yes. I will vote for Hillary over Trump, even though I think her acts in a less partisan, more just administration, would already have resulted in indictment, prosecution and conviction not only on the Espionage Act violations, but on obstruction of justice charges. I would vote for Hillary for the same reason I voted for Nixon over McGovern -- I think the country will recover more quickly from a dishonest government than from an incompetent one.

This is where we'll disagree. I fail to see the logic.

Trump has no discernable policy except neo-isolationism, protectionism, and self-aggrandisement. Hillary, when freed from the need to appease the Sandersnistas, is generally an internationalist and a believer in the benefits of international trade. I shudder at her potential Supreme Court nominees, but Trump's judicial policy seems rather closer to hers than to, say, that of Ronald Reagan. Besides, Hillary lacks the inherent likeability of Obama. If she screws up the way this administration has -- and if a competent opposition party nominates a sensible candidate -- she'll get clobbered in 2020 the same way Carter did in 1980.

I just think Donald will be leashed by Congress and the people and will live within the law. Hillary is above the law and doesn't give a f*#k about people or Congress, you're a racist or misogynist if you disagree.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Wait and see what happens.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 11:39am PT
bluering posted
I fail to see logic.

ftfy
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 5, 2016 - 11:41am PT
I just think Donald will be leashed by Congress and the people and will live within the law. Hillary is above the law and doesn't give a f*#k about people or Congress, you're a racist or misogynist if you disagree.

Fair point, and well-taken. On international issues, specifically trade and exercise of military power, however, Trump would have very little effective restraint from any other branch of government, and that is what worries me. His announced position on NAFTA, foreign trade generally, and international issues seems poised to start a trade war that could give us a rerun of the Great Depression -- and I'm not talking about a formation on Shuteye.

John
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 11:43am PT
How will a Republican Congress elected by the same overwhelmingly white, male electorate required to create a Trump win in any way shape or form "leash Trump?" There is no reasonable reality in which this happens. Trump will literally seem like the Voice of Reason in this scenario and Republicans will have 100% opposition free control of 3 branches of government. It would be devastating.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 5, 2016 - 12:00pm PT
HDDJ, I think Norton would agree with me that there simply are not enough white, male voters to elect Trump on their own. Something I can't foresee would need to happen for Trump to obtain support from other demographics. I can't foresee what (or, more importantly, how) that could be, of course, but the demographics of electing members of Congress differ from those for electing a President.

I know that where I live, we have several California rarities - districts dominated by centrists. We still have some districts where one party has an overwhelming majority, but both parties here have learned that in most districts, an extreme representative (or assemply person or state senator) won't get elected.

Certainly in this area, that depends on agricultural exports for a significant part of the local economy, Trump's protectionism won't go over well, and any representative that supports it can expect unified opposition by the local business and labor community.

John
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
John posted
HDDJ, I think Norton would agree with me that there simply are not enough white, male voters to elect Trump on their own.

Which is why he's going to lose horribly. Any fantasy in which he wins also elects supermajorities to both houses of Congress. There are enough white males to make it happen, it's just that half of them usually stay home. If they show up they elect Trump and the most conservative downticket people with them for the most part.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 5, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
On international issues, specifically trade and exercise of military power, however, Trump would have very little effective restraint from any other branch of government, and that is what worries me. His announced position on NAFTA, foreign trade generally, and international issues seems poised to start a trade war that could give us a rerun of the Great Depression -- and I'm not talking about a formation on Shuteye.

I've heard this too. His trade talk remains to seen, as it evolves after trade-talks with other parties involved. He is not going to come out of the gate with 30% tariffs as some say he will. It remains to be seen how it will evolve.

(Yeah, he did mention a 30% tariff in a debate, but it was in the context of a last resort, if I remember correctly).

Something has to be done. We are destroying our middle class (jobs).

EDIT: Do you guys really think that the only people supporting Trump are white males?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 5, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
How will a Republican Congress elected by the same overwhelmingly white, male electorate required to create a Trump win in any way shape or form "leash Trump?" There is no reasonable reality in which this happens. Trump will literally seem like the Voice of Reason in this scenario and Republicans will have 100% opposition free control of 3 branches of government. It would be devastating.

Maybe, but (on the other hand) Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan are already telling Republicans they can come out opposing Trump in their re-election bids this fall. Congress may not give Trump much leash at all.

Curt
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
Maybe, but (on the other hand) Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan are already telling Republicans they can come out opposing Trump in their re-election bids this fall. Congress may not give Trump much leash at all.

If Trump wins he owns all of them. He just ate the RNC's best and brightest for lunch. They will bend the knee and kiss the ring. There's no moderate outcome here. I just don't see an electorate where Trump wins and then Dems take the Senate unless some crazy ish goes down in the next 6 months.



Norton

Social climber
May 5, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
Bluering asks

EDIT: Do you guys really think that the only people supporting Trump are white males?

no, i am quite sure there are a couple of black, asian, hispanic people who support Trump

given the things he has said, if you were them, seriously, would you?

but you can answer your own question in a half a second google search
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 5, 2016 - 12:29pm PT
If Trump wins he owns all of them. He just ate the RNC's best and brightest for lunch. They will bend the knee and kiss the ring. There's no moderate outcome here.

I don't think you'll have too much to fear. As much as Donald would love to have people kissing his ring, Congress is a CO-EQUAL branch of government. He would be just one (loud) leg of the Federal 'Triad'.

The beauty of our Constitution and Republican system of governance.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 5, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
If Trump wins he owns all of them. He just ate the RNC's best and brightest for lunch. They will bend the knee and kiss the ring. There's no moderate outcome here...

I think it's equally likely they will impeach and convict him. Republican Congressional leadership has a visceral hatred of Trump. Pay special attention to who Trump's VP choice is.

Curt
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
bluering posted
I don't think you'll have too much to fear. As much as Donald would love to have people kissing his ring, Congress is a CO-EQUAL branch of government. He would be just one (loud) leg of the Federal 'Triad'.

The beauty of our Constitution and Republican system of governance.


Haha what? When your party is being led by the President, controls both houses of Congress and that President is the primary reason you won the election there's not of ideological friction to "check and balance" anything. They're going to put 2-3 arch conservatives into the Supreme Court. They're going to build a wall. They're going to do odious things to Muslims. They're going to tick off the Tea Party wishlist they've been frothing about for years. I realize this is exactly what you want which is why you don't fear it.

Curt posted
I think it's equally likely they will impeach and convict him. Republican Congressional leadership has a visceral hatred of Trump. Pay special attention to who Trump's VP choice is.

Impeach who? McConnell? Again, the electorate that would be required to get Trump into office sees McConnell as an establishment shill and Ryan as a traitor to the cause. The "Freedom Caucus" will run the show.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 5, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
With regard to demographics, I think the polls are wrong.

More people support Trump than say they do. And a lot less people will actually vote for Hillary than say they will. Except for JohnE, maybe. HEhe.....


Oh, and "unfavorable" numbers? I love that one. You're supposed to assume that means you will not vote for somebody if they're "unfavorable". Not necessarily true, now more than ever.

EDIT:
They're going to do odious things to Muslims.

I have to ask if you're serious.

The "Freedom Caucus" will run the show.


Why do you hate Freedom?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 12:53pm PT
bluering posted
I have to ask if you're serious.

Muslims are targeted in this country on a daily basis. You honestly think that's going to improve under a Trump regime?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 5, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
Muslims are targeted in this country on a daily basis. You honestly think that's going to improve under a Trump regime?

Not sure if that's an accurate statement that warrants a serious consideration.

No, I'm more worried about MY current welfare under this administration, rather than listen to some 'aggrieved' Muslim belly-acher.

If the ship America sinks, we're all f*#ked! Muslims, whites, transgenders, Norton, and even Russ Walling.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 5, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
The Donald weighs in on Copa America and soccer tactics.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

He's right. The only hope is to not let them in.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
I have to ask if you're serious.
"Donald Trump backer allegedly attacked Muslim woman, said she hopes GOP front-runner deports “all of you terrorist Muslims”"
http://www.salon.com/2016/05/03/donald_trump_backer_allegedly_attacked_muslim_woman_said_she_hopes_gop_front_runner_deports_all_of_you_terrorist_muslims/

No, I'm more worried about MY current welfare under this administration....

What exactly is it that has you thinking you're in more danger that a person like the one referred to in the news article above? You're worried your going to pay 2-3, maybe even 4% more in income tax? Worried that you'll be incovenienced by a background check, or may not pass, when you stock up on bullets for weekend shoot-it-ups at the range? What is it that makes YOUR concerns more important that that of other people who are seeing an increased hostility to the group they belong to?
dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
Paul Ryan is not ready to endorse trump.

WASHINGTON — Speaker Paul D. Ryan, the nation’s highest-ranking elected Republican, said Thursday he was “not ready” to endorse Donald J. Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee.

He received a tepid endorsement from McConnell yesterday.

None of these guys owe trump a damned thing. If trump can't respect the office and behave himself, why should they stick their necks out for him?


http://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/06/us/politics/paul-ryan-donald-trump.amp.html?client=ms-opera-mini-iphone#
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 5, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
Betting that someone who's claim to fame is screwing people in real estate deals and denigrating everyone that does not agree with him is going to "make America great again" seems like a fool's errand.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 5, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
J.E. Thank you for the reply. I see it this way, you pretty much know just what HRC is going to do.

The Donald is an unknown entity.

I am a gambler, hoping something better will happen.

He is a successful executive and the job of the president is "The Chief Executive"...

And don't worry about Mitch McConnell, or Paul Ryan...they had better do their job, or Trump will and can call then out, even arrest them, if they mess with the rules of government.

My prediction is this: Donald will heal the huge gaping split in the Republican Party by naming Kasick as VP and Ted Cruz to the Supreme court... that should satisfy the more ardent conservative folks- a Win Win.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 5, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
If, despite my disbelief, Trump wins the election, what mandate would he bring?

His campaign has thus far retained the purity of a lack of policy, other than make good deals. That has as much meaning as those NPS signs that say "authorized vehicles only."

He already claims he's not a typical Republican. No kidding. Maybe he's trying to reenact the Era of Good Feelings. After all, it's been about 200 years since Monroe did that, to end the particularly rancorous campaigns between the Democratic Republicans and the Federalists.

Actually, maybe I should reconsider Trump after all. An Era of Good Feelings would certainly improve the name I have for our current time: The Era of Hurt Feelings.

John
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 01:33pm PT
I think it's equally likely they will impeach and convict him. Republican Congressional leadership has a visceral hatred of Trump. Pay special attention to who Trump's VP choice is.

+1
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
Haha what? When your party is being led by the President, controls both houses of Congress and that President is the primary reason you won the election...

(sounds just like 2009)

there's not of ideological friction to "check and balance" anything. They're going to put 2-3 arch conservatives into the Supreme Court. They're going to build a wall. They're going to do odious things to Muslims. They're going to tick off the Tea Party wishlist they've been frothing about for years

Just like the Democrats did back in '09.
dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
they had better do their job, or Trump will and can call then out, even arrest them, if they mess with the rules of government.

Trump is much more likely to do something illegal. For starters, killing the families of terrorists, which he has proposed.

Who would arrest him?
dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
At any rate, at least Paul Ryan isn't planning to endorse him any time soon.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
And don't worry about Mitch McConnell, or Paul Ryan...they had better do their job, or Trump will and can call then out, even arrest them, if they mess with the rules of government.

come on, please be reasonable.

My prediction is this: Donald will heal the huge gaping split in the Republican Party by naming Kasick as VP and Ted Cruz to the Supreme court... that should satisfy the more ardent conservative folks- a Win Win.

Cruz is hated by most members of congress. explain to me how he gets on the sc.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 5, 2016 - 01:43pm PT
Trump is much more likely to do something illegal. For starters, killing the families of terrorists, which he has proposed.

Who would arrest him?


Dirt... Obama has killed terrorists families.


EDIT: 10b ... the president has the power to arrest members of congress, for failing to show up and do their duty in congress.

I think Lincoln was the last to do this.

and every member of congress wants something.... Trump trades support for "Justice Cruz" for something the congressmen want... they are all for sale you know except for maybe Cruz... and to get him out of congress might just be the win win for the congress.


Norton

Social climber
May 5, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
Betting that someone who's claim to fame is screwing people in real estate deals and denigrating everyone that does not agree with him is going to "make America great again" seems like a fool's errand.

what does that say about the people who will vote for him in November?

remember November of 2007 Election day - John McCain vs Barrack Obama?

The US economy was deep in the grips of the worst Recession since the 1930s

millions and millions of Americans had lost their jobs and were losing their homes

job losses were reported at 500,000 a month

trillions of dollars of needed job creating wealth had gone up in smoke in the markets

and yet, some 50 million American adults, not children, voted Republican,

they voted to continue the exact same "no regulation" "no oversight" philosophy that six years of Republican President, House, and Senate had given us the Recession

you really believe Republicans know anything about or "care" about the economy?

No, those who vote Republican now are the same who voted to continue Recession,
the "fools errand" of leadership you refer to
dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
Guyman: No he has never targeted families.

Some have been killed in attacks (e.g., bin laden's wife) but never targeted because of their relation to a terrorist.

You don't have any evidence he did this.


Trump has said he would target them.

Doing so is blatantly illegal, and several previous military/intelligence officials have said they would not carry out such orders.
dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
Oh boy are you people ever stupid!!!


Quack you.
dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
...And there's another cogent response from our fact-free, gluten free, free range, resident know it all conspiracy loon (not duck--loon).
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 5, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
remember November of 2007 Election day - John McCain vs Barrack Obama?

Uh, Norton, is that like George H. W. Bush's remembrance of September 7, 1941, as the attack on Pearl Harbor?

I apologize in advance, because my posts show more typos than yours, but I just couldn't resist.

;>)

John
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 5, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
what does that say about the people who will vote for him in November?

remember November of 2007 Election day - John McCain vs Barrack Obama?

The US economy was deep in the grips of the worst Recession since the 1930s

millions and millions of Americans had lost their jobs and were losing their homes

job losses were reported at 500,000 a month

trillions of dollars of needed job creating wealth had gone up in smoke in the markets

and yet, some 50 million American adults, not children, voted Republican,

they voted to continue the exact same "no regulation" "no oversight" philosophy that six years of Republican President, House, and Senate had given us the Recession

you really believe Republicans know anything about or "care" about the economy?


Norton.... wow that brings back bad memories, I was working all sorts of odd jobs just to put food on the table and keep my mortgage going....

I gambled and voted for Obama.

Mostly because John McCain let Palen on to the ticket... that showed supremely poor judgment on McCains part, IMHO.

And because I hated George Bush and all of his BS bluster and stupid ideas. When he compared himself to Winston Churchill... my head exploded!

So Im still a gambling man, and I know that who ever gets to be the president.... its not really going to make much of a change, in my life...

Donald will just be more entertaining than HRC.

end o rant.
John M

climber
May 5, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
Trump would be more likely to start WW3. That would impact a lot of folks lives.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
I was undecided about McCain up until he picked that rootin' tootin' hockey Mama Griz.

Now that I think about it, giving Palin legitimacy and lowering the bar significantly, planting the notion that anybody can be a contender. So, here we are... eight years later... A d-bag with no political experience, representing the GOP in the next presidential election.

WTF???.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 5, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
guyman,


http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/26/privilege-from-arrest

EDIT: 10b ... the president has the power to arrest members of congress, for failing to show up and do their duty in congress.

I think Lincoln was the last to do this.

if that's the case, most of them should be in jail, today.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 5, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
Doing so is blatantly illegal

You mean like destroying evidence in the face of a Congressional subpoena and pending FBI investigation?

It's all a matter of interpretation.

Oh, and who's doing the interpreting.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 5, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
^^^^
Yep
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
May 5, 2016 - 02:50pm PT
Yesterday afternoon I had a vision:

Trump as POTUS and the House and Senate both Democrat.

Nothing changes: Gridlock continues.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 5, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
Something we can agree on

Of course. Because you are two peas in a pod.
Way more alike than you think you are different.
Norton

Social climber
May 5, 2016 - 03:03pm PT
Moose said:

I am 90% sure Trump will be our next president

wow, what do you know that every one of the state and national polls are getting wrong?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 5, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
I am 90% sure Trump will be our next president.

A part of me is inclined to think same - when I reflect on America's crushes on plain charisma and passion over reason - then I remember everybody who will be in the wagon with her come Nov... Obama, Biden, Warren, last but not least Bernie.

Hillary ... dangerous idiot that should never lead America

Yeah, right, and Israel used a tactical nuke on Syria. (wb)

Links?

One wonders how such commenters even know how to use a computer and keyboard.

People taking pride in their ignorance, there's no
end to it here.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
bluering posted
Not sure if that's an accurate statement that warrants a serious consideration from back here behind my wall of white privilege

ftfy


Hate crimes against Muslims have been steadily growing (over 150+ last year iirc). Muslims are targeted by the government for surveillance whether they deserve it or not. Multiple sikh have been assaulted or murdered because people mistook them for being Muslim. bluering, why is it that you are so consistently desperate to be victimized and oppressed and yet when people are actually treated poorly you are so uncurious as to even bother investigating it?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 5, 2016 - 03:20pm PT
Paul Ryan: "I'm not ready to support Trump as the nominee"

Donald Trump: "I'm not ready to support Speaker Ryan's agenda"


Boom! I love it.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 5, 2016 - 03:20pm PT
"The polls at this moment are meaningless."



Damn straight.

If the election were held today...


...voter turnout would be the lowest ever recorded, because nobody expects the election until November.
dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 03:20pm PT
You mean like destroying evidence in the face of a Congressional subpoena and pending FBI investigation?

Of course--if the facts support it. And "Because Hillary" doesn't count.
dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
The polls at this moment are meaningless.

Actually, that's not true. Polls now are beginning to mean a lot more than a few months ago, and are starting to have real value. A few months ago, people asked, "Who the hell are these bozos?" and indicated their voting preferences accordingly. Now, people say "I sorta know these bozos" and indicate their voting preferences accordingly.
dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
And just like that, trump rejected Paul Ryan's attempt to unify the party.

“I am not ready to support Speaker Ryan's agenda

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/5/11604760/donald-trump-paul-ryan

Has a speaker ever failed to endorse his/her party's presidential nominee? I always had assumed such endorsements were a given.

If elected he will have a hell of a time working with congress, including republicans.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 03:37pm PT
dirt posted
Actually, that's not true. Polls now are beginning to mean a lot more than a few months ago, and are starting to have real value. A few months ago, people asked, "Who the hell are these bozos?" and indicated their voting preferences accordingly. Now, people say "I sorta know these bozos" and indicate their voting preferences accordingly.

They are meaningful for catching people's immediate mood, they have no predictive signficance for the actual election.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
The polls are:
Hillary 54%
Trump 41%

meaningless?
No

Will things change?
yes

I don't understand the worries about Trump winning
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
Specifically they have meaning
Trump is behind at this time

Things will change.
No questions were implied in my post.
dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 03:49pm PT
Hddj, I've read several articles that say at this point (as opposed to say January) polls begin to have some predictive value. Matchups aren't so hypothetical anymore, voters have been exposed to a lot of information, and time has marched on. Ill try to find them later.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 5, 2016 - 03:55pm PT
I'd love to see that evidence. All the pols I know are pretty clear that GE numbers have no predictive value until at the very earliest the conventions but more clearly after labor day. They're just fodder for pundits.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
I'm still waiting for the evidence that Obama raised the debt by 56%

They don't respond back after being proven wrong


and if you still don't get it
Let me put it another way

If McCain became President, he would have been saddled with exactly the same debt numbers as Obama did.

Obama policies increased the debt 6.3% over that.
Norton

Social climber
May 5, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
yes, I remember Nate Silver of 538.com saying that about polls

regardless, I believe the polls are consistent and continually validate each other in what they are saying about Trump's very, very high unfavorables with women and all minorities

and us crippled, handicapped people who walk twisted and part in handicapped?

well we don't like being mocked by anyone and we don't like having doors held open for us unless we are in a wheelchair as it just draws attention to us, we have arms, we can open our own doors, well almost all of us
nah000

climber
no/w/here
May 5, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
CF wrote: "I don't understand the worries about Trump winning"

there are [at least] three issues:

1. hillary is the second most disliked presidential candidate in the fortyish years that net favourability polling has been done. the most disliked is of course trump.

2. hillary is one of the most stilted, uncharismatic, least visionary, un-leader-like presidential candidates in quite some time. sort of like a dem corollary to what jeb bush was for the republicans [and we all know how well that worked out for the republicans]...

3. for better or worse, the voting public does not vote primarily based on any type of reason. rather they vote as a whole based primarily on gut, and hillary's lack of everything that was listed in 2. does not necessarily bode well when coupled with this fact.



now, i'm not arguing that trump will get through... i do think hillary will win. [and should win given the race at hand]

i'm just pointing out that anyone who thinks that hillary is a sure thing, is the same type of person who would have dismissed trump being the republican nominee a year ago.

and yet here we are.



so don't be complacent...

or it won't be just the independents and democrats laughing at the republicans, as a majority of that party try to sort out what the hell just happened...

instead, it will be a majority of americans trying to sort out what the hell just happened, as they watch gold leafed taps and sinks begin to be installed in the white house and the word "trump" replace "united states of america" on the side of air force one...
Norton

Social climber
May 5, 2016 - 04:31pm PT
US Presidents do NOT have the Constitutional authority to raise the debt ceiling, only congress can do that

US Presidents of BOTH parties have very little pure "spending" authority, that belongs to congress and specifically to the House of Representatives

It is categorically wrong, in fact downright stupid, to try to denigrate a President as some kind of irresponsible spender when in fact it is Congress that spends

Congress is elected by the American people, and I personally do not believe a US President should "go against the will of the people" by vetoing legislation that congress passes unless there is something really obviously weird or wrong about it

so can we all please knock the truly ignorant and childish efforts to hang spending, the deficit and the National Debt on any President, either Republican or President
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 5, 2016 - 04:31pm PT
Hillary and Bill Clinton have been vilified by the rightwing for 25 years. He beat them politically at almost every turn. After 8 years of prosperity he left with a high approval rating despite his personal misgivings. They've been gearing up for Hillary for years, their worst nightmare. The last thing they want is a progressive Democrat appointing Supreme Court justices, raising the minimum, wage, expanding affordable health care, fighting for LGBT and women's rights, facing the threat of climate change....

Bernie Bros repeating rightwing talking points is dumb. Dumb.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 5, 2016 - 04:31pm PT
He should just own up to being a racist, misogynist bigot. It would rally his base even more.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
I think we need to focus on CONGRESS just as much as the President

Once October comes around, things will be intense with negative right wing ads


nah
you were right
I was alittle to cavalier about it
We need to fight to the bitter end

But they may run a third party, which once again change everything

There's not much we can rely on until the end of October comes around
So I hope to have as much fun as possible now, while nothing matters
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 5, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
Meanwhile, the e-mail non-scandal winds down....

Officials: Scant evidence that Clinton had malicious intent in handling of emails


Prosecutors and FBI agents investigating Hillary Clinton’s use of a personal email server have so far found scant evidence that the leading Democratic presidential candidate intended to break classification rules, though they are still probing the case aggressively with an eye on interviewing Clinton herself, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

FBI agents on the case have been joined by federal prosecutors from the same office that successfully prosecuted 9/11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui — and who would handle any Edward Snowden case, should he ever return to the country, according to the U.S. officials familiar with the matter. And in recent weeks, prosecutors from the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Eastern District of Virginia and their FBI counterparts have been interviewing top Clinton aides as they seek to bring the case to a close.

CNN reported Thursday that longtime Clinton aide Huma Abedin was among those interviewed. A lawyer for Abedin did not immediately return an email seeking comment.

The involvement of the U.S. Attorney’s Office is not indicative that charges are imminent or even likely. One official said prosecutors are wrestling with the question of whether Clinton intended to violate the rules, and so far, the evidence seemed to indicate she did not.

But the investigation is not over, and if charges are brought, Clinton would face a team that is no stranger to high-profile cases involving classified material. Last year, for example, prosecutors in the district won a conviction of a former CIA officer who was involved in a highly secretive operation to give faulty nuclear plans to Iran and accused of leaking details of the effort to a reporter.

The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the ongoing probe. An FBI spokesman and a spokesman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Eastern District of Virginia declined to comment.

Stone Cowboy

Trad climber
Livermore, CA.
May 5, 2016 - 05:10pm PT
That's affirmative.
dirtbag

climber
May 5, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
What a bummer, crankster.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
I can't believe the Hypocrisy
I guess Grover messed with the wrong Koch bots

But he has been taken DOwn

Glenn Beck
Grover Norquist Is A Deep-Cover Spy For The Muslim Brotherhood

Tuesday 04/26/2016, 10:31am

On his radio program yesterday, as part of his crusade to get right-wing anti-tax activist Grover Norquist removed from the board of the National Rifle Association for supposedly being a front man for the Muslim Brotherhood, Glenn Beck interviewed the Family Research Council's Jerry Boykin, who is a longtime Norquist critic and anti-Islam activist. Following the interview, Beck literally begged the NRA members in his audience to vote to remove Norquist from the organization's board, warning that this is the last chance to stop him. "If this works, his empire really falls apart,...

 See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/people/grover-norquist#sthash.zvkIZY1s.dpuf


Please!!!
Who here thinks that Grover Norquist Is A Deep-Cover Spy For The Muslim Brotherhood?

I would like some responses
Please!
Is this the new politics?
Complete BS smears of your enemies?

This isn't coming from the other side
This is them eating their own
Norton

Social climber
May 5, 2016 - 05:37pm PT
Glenn Beck: 'You Will Never Have Another Republican President Ever Again' - See more at:

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/glenn-beck-you-will-never-have-another-republican-president-ever-again#sthash.YgeWLTp8.dpuf
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
Well that was unexpected
But thanks bro

Have I told you about my recent bouldering sessss

That rubber was going off
I usually can only do V14
but after the new resole, it was V15 all day long
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 5, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
Actually, is an additional 'a' and (2) 'b's, minus an 'l'. 'Probably' (or 'prolly') some sort of energy saving strategy saving 1/3 of the typing energy. Just a guess. But, I'm with you - stop it out there, G_d damn it (thanks Klimmer).
Norton

Social climber
May 5, 2016 - 06:07pm PT
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 5, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
And "Because Hillary" doesn't count.

Why not?

You guys are perpetually playing the card: "Because Bush."
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
May 5, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
Kinda late and someone may have already posted it, but here is what could be Ted Cruz's epic twitter rant.
http://thegoodlordabove.com/articles/details/242?utm_content=inf_11_2560_2&tse_id=INF_c5981d6883b644c9a449bec5ab1c9778
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 06:37pm PT
As soon as the Nazi's are excused of their behavior
We will consider Bush's crimes as being not as bad.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
Have you seen Barbara Bush Jr.??

At least daddy Bush didn't say he would date her
He showed great restraint, which is admirable in this GOP field.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 07:08pm PT
Some people like bull sh#t better
Norton

Social climber
May 5, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
Trump Could Well Hand the Senate Back to the Democrats

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/05/05/donald_trump_could_lose_republicans_the_senate.html
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 5, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
I pray to G-d that the Republicans will get what they deserve

and the Dems will take the Senate and House

but unfortunately, politics is what confirmed my atheism
As long as Cheney stays alive and out of jail, I can be assured that G-d does not exist

you can substitute another 30 names, either G-d hates us, or more simply doesn't care, which equals G-d doesn't exist

Big money trumps g-d these days
zBrown

Ice climber
May 5, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
Trump and running mate Joe McCarthy. Or is it Joe and his dummy Trump.


Then again, he does seem to get quite a few chicks

Norton

Social climber
May 5, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
sent you an email, Locker!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 5, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
what do you expect???

And either candidate is not going to do even worse? LOL
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 6, 2016 - 07:10am PT
OMG! OBAMA is building a wall yet slams DONALD for wanting to build a wall ...
Liberals lost in liberland



https://wethevigilant.com/2016/04/29/u-s-building-trump-border-wall-in-tunisia/
dirtbag

climber
May 6, 2016 - 08:45am PT
Four pinochios for trump's claim that Hillary started the birther movement:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/05/06/donald-trumps-ridiculous-claim-that-hillary-clinton-started-the-birther-movement/?tid=a_reengage-0

Trump supporters who won't vote for Hillary because she is a liar are liars themselves.

And mostly racist, too,
Norton

Social climber
May 6, 2016 - 08:54am PT
Trump supporters who won't vote for Hillary because she is a liar are liars themselves.

And mostly racist, too,

and mostly white, and male, and lower income, less education, cognitively challenged

but seriously, didn't David Duke of the KKK recently endorse Donald?

Larry Nelson

Social climber
May 6, 2016 - 09:03am PT
dirtbag posted:
Four pinochios for trump's claim that Hillary started the birther movement:

So it was excitable Hillary supporters who started the birther movement.

Now that Obama is going to ride off into the sunset,
is it now ok to once again scrutinize college transcripts of candidates?
Norton

Social climber
May 6, 2016 - 09:13am PT
College, or High School, transcripts are about as relevant and useful as tax returns

and speaking of tax returns, if as he says Bernie's return as so easy, so mundane

how come he has not released them yet?

audits have nothing at all to do with not being able to release Trump's tax returns

why hasn't he released his, same reason Romney did not release his?

because something damaging to his candidacy would be revealed...like paying no Federal income tax?

personally I don't care at all about school transcripts or tax returns, do you, really?

there is no law saying neither one has to be released to be President
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 6, 2016 - 09:30am PT
six thousand five hundred and thirty times!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 09:35am PT
Nothing in pyro's link says the US is building a wall in Tunisia.


How about this;

Last week the government extended by three months a state of emergency imposed following jihadist attacks, while the United States on Friday announced a $24.9-million (22-million-euro) project to install an electronic security surveillance system on Tunisia’s border with strife-torn Libya.
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2016/03/31/Tunisia-border-guard-wounded-in-terrorist-ambush.html

The US is indeed funding a security surveillance system on Tunisia's border with Libya.

Switzerland (of all places!!!) is proposing barbed-wire barriers on it's border with Italy. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/04/switzerland-proposes-barbed-wire-fence-along-italian-border/

I guess the Tunisians and Swiss are so stupid and uncaring that they don't know borders/barriers are offensive and do not work.

Stupid Europeans, stupid Africans.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 6, 2016 - 09:36am PT
Yeah, I'd rather read that incoherent babbling about consciousness on the Mind thread any day than discuss the future of the country.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 09:42am PT
There's Not EVeN a barbed wire fence between Mexico and America?????

G-d Damn it!
I'm going down there right now with a big coil and putting one up myself.

Boy blue, you caught us with are pants down, even Switzerland can do better than we can on border control

Who wants to pitch in and buy a Radio Shack Burglar system, we can set it on the border and stop the mass migrations that are going on down there.
It's open borders!!!
Obama has caused this all!!

The border patrol has their hands tied by him, they'll sitting around eating donuts as rapists fly by their window

It's insane, run for your lives!!!
kattz

climber
May 6, 2016 - 09:43am PT
If you have something to protect, you build a wall around it--as simple as that. It's the right thing to do.
dirtbag

climber
May 6, 2016 - 09:44am PT
So it was excitable Hillary supporters who started the birther movement.

Maybe---but maybe not. The fact checkers didn't know.

I'm very glad, however, that mark penn is not managing this campaign.
dirtbag

climber
May 6, 2016 - 09:46am PT
Here's your man, trump supporters, behaving presidentially:


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 09:50am PT
Chief CranklOOn
His Royal Highness "Werner"

Cranky and lOOny
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
May 6, 2016 - 10:02am PT

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 10:02am PT
Surveillance system not a wall, Bluey.

We already have that on our border with Mexico.


So, a wall would be better? One that is enforced? Don't you see the sad irony of us funding other peoples' border security, while we criticize doing so ourselves?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 6, 2016 - 10:12am PT
Bluering - did you know that illegal immigration from Mexico to the US has actually declined in recent years; that the highest year for unauthorized immigration was actually 2007(BB, or Before Barack)?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

We eat the pablum the media serves up without even bothering to wonder what is truth and what is an illusion.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 6, 2016 - 10:30am PT
To be fair, the information is never taken up by media. I don't know why nobody bothers to refute the politicians when they get interviewed and yammer about how badly we are being overrun at the border.

I'll be honest - I would sincerely enjoy seeing an interviewer ask Trump what the increased numbers were that have him so up in arms. I doubt that Trump himself is even aware that the numbers are down. But, like I said, I can understand why people don't actually know the facts.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 10:32am PT
Bluering - did you know that illegal immigration from Mexico to the US has actually declined in recent years; that the highest year for unauthorized immigration was actually 2007(BB, or Before Barack)?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

We eat the pablum the media serves up without even bothering to wonder what is truth and what is an illusion.


Not buying it. And you should take your own advice regarding what you consider factual.

EDIT:
Can you read Bluey?

We are funding someone else's surveillance system and we already fund a surveillance system on our border.


Yes, you dismissed Pyro's assertion as being false. It wasn't entirely false, in fact, it's more accurate than you alluded to.

You don't want to admit you were wrong.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 10:36am PT
Dingus, you opinions are garbage. You won't even suggest who'd like to see as president in the current race.

Kinda easy to cast asperions on people when you play the pu$$y, and won't enter the fray.

Get in or STFU, pu$$!

EDIT: Have your way, Mono. You're right.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 10:48am PT
What about digging under the 1000 ft. high Great Trump wall.

Why didn't Trump bother to think of that?

That's what they do these days, I mean from the start of time after the first wall was built to keep people out.

Is he going to dig down a 1000 ft. to stop them??

Boy, Mexico is going go bankrupt building His Greatness's Wall.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 10:50am PT
Craig, we're on that already. The Israelis are already using the technology we developed with them to counter tunnel-builders from Gaza.

Next.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 10:51am PT
1500 miles of it????

Do you know how expensive that is??

Do you know you provide free college for every American that wants if for less than the cost of the Great Wall?

Is the wall a good investment?
When we a $19 trillion is debt and we can't even afford to rebuild our infrastructure?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 10:58am PT
Is the wall a good investment?

All things considered? Yes. Quite cheap in the long run too.
c wilmot

climber
May 6, 2016 - 11:01am PT
its great to have illegals to clean your estate but if you are a young American looking for work its disturbing to have "bi lingual preferred" on almost any low wage job application.

its great if your in the boat but telling the youth of America to go F themselves because your already in is just selfish

I can guarantee anyone who supports illegals would change their tune if it was THEIR jobs and wages being affected
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 6, 2016 - 11:17am PT
I'll be honest - I would sincerely enjoy seeing an interviewer ask Trump what the increased numbers were that have him so up in arms. I doubt that Trump himself is even aware that the numbers are down. But, like I said, I can understand why people don't actually know the facts.

Fear is the only thing Republicans have to run on. The ONLY thing. When times are relatively good, by any factual measurement, they need to manufacture problems that don't exist. So, if your hypothetical interviewer were to ask Trump this question, he would simply brush it off as irrelevant. This, unfortunately, is what political debate has come to. Facts have no longer have any relevance.

Curt


Nibs

Trad climber
Humboldt, CA
May 6, 2016 - 11:51am PT
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0153419
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 6, 2016 - 12:00pm PT
This is gonna be an entertaining election season. The Donald contending. His haters ready to rant about his latest indiscretion.

This thread should should pass 20,000 posts by September.

We is gonna have some seriously big fun.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 6, 2016 - 12:00pm PT
Not buying it. And you should take your own advice regarding what you consider factual.

Blue - Pew Research is a highly regarded(and nonpartisan) research group. It would be one thing if I was posting information from a "domain registered today, sponsored by a political group with an agenda" source, but it is PEW RESEARCH!
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 6, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
I can guarantee anyone who supports illegals would change their tune if it was THEIR jobs and wages being affected

So True....

And you think your job is safe? Cause you have a skill, a degree? That don't mean doodly squat....

Where I work a PHD from the University of Brazzaville is equal to a PHD from MIT.... Only HR knows the dude from Brazzaville will work for 50% of the pay.


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
Happie, I know who Pew is. Ask yourself how you do a reliable poll of illegal immigrants?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 6, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
His haters ready to rant about his latest indiscretion.

And that's the Republicans; imagine what Democrats are saying about him!
dirtbag

climber
May 6, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
This is gonna be an entertaining election season. The Donald contending. His haters ready to rant about his latest indiscretion.

This thread should should pass 20,000 posts by September.

We is gonna have some seriously big fun.

-yes, or scary as hell
-prolly
-see #1
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 6, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
Ask yourself how you do a reliable poll of illegal immigrants?

The same way one conducts research on other topics. The website details their information sources. How does one gather "reliable" information for any data set? I think we tend to imagine that undocumented people scurry about at night, keeping their children from school from the doctor's office, from the public's eye.... but it's not the reality.

A rhetorical question: How do we "know" that undocumented peoples are receiving welfare benefits, if there is no 'reliable" way to count them?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 6, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
Didn't want that full faith and credit anyways.

On CNBC this morning Trump suggested that one strategy he'll use for reducing the national debt is having bond holders accept "haircuts". To be clear what that means, he'll try to get people who own US Treasury bonds and are owned X to accept X/2, or some reduced amount of what they are owed.

That's called defaulting on a debt obligation.

In other words, he wants to put the US through something like bankruptcy. Now, to be clear, in the world of business this is not at all uncommon. In a bankruptcy proceeding almost everyone takes a haircut. Many lose everything. You were owed $7 million and you have to accept $2 million. It often happens in simple business negotiations too. Things aren't going great. Debt has to be restructured to help the company survive. A creditor thinks they might lose everything so they'll accept 50 cents on the dollar.

So all good, except the United States is not a struggling casino. It's a sovereign nation with sovereign debt.

It is not too much to say that centuries of American prosperity have been undergirded by the "full faith and credit of the United States." In other words, the US always pays its debts in full and on time. Indeed, it's black letter text in the US constitution that the country's debt can never even be questioned. Defaulting on the national debt would clearly be unconstitutional.
Norton

Social climber
May 6, 2016 - 12:46pm PT
Donald is an expert at what he is proposing.

After all, he filed for business bankruptcies four times.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 6, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
Trump has suddenly lost his aversion to raising campaign funds from corporations and wealthy donors.

His claim to self-finance his campaign, and to not be a "puppet" like Jeb Bush was just another one of his lies.

Trump loaned himself money for his campaign, and he will now have those loans paid back from funds he raises from donations. In the end, he will have spent zero dollars of his own money, and will have been an ordinary, money-controlled candidate like those he previously excoriated.

Trump justifies his campaign finance flip-flop by saying that he has to spend as much as Hillary Clinton.


The truth is, Trump is a self-serving liar who can't be trusted.


With Trump, the real negotiations always begin after the initial deal has been made. He will insist on getting more and paying less than what the agreement called for.


http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ol-trump-fundraising-flip-flop-20160505-story.html#nt=oft13a-5gp1


http://www.npr.org/2016/05/04/476783557/donald-trump-shifts-to-fundraising-after-loaning-his-campaign-38-million






fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 6, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
I think to even be in the running one must be a "self-serving liar"....

No?

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
Bluering

Say the wall cost $500 billion to build

What will the return on that investment bring back the people?

What about the terrorists that just arrive at any of the 100s of our International Airports on a tourist Visa.

That half a trillion dollar wall do absolutely nothing to stop them.

Even the wet backs can fly over the wall for a $150 plane ticket to work for a couple weeks, then fly back


The WALL would be penetrable to any one with HAlF a BraiN

Have you really thought this through??
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
I think we tend to imagine that undocumented people scurry about at night, keeping their children from school from the doctor's office, from the public's eye.... but it's not the reality.

No, it's not reality.

A rhetorical question: How do we "know" that undocumented peoples are receiving welfare benefits, if there is no 'reliable" way to count them?

They have no documentation to provide for their free gov't stuff. Otherwise they'd be 'documented'. Why do you think the number of people claiming some form of gov't assistance has grown so big?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
Are you sure about them getting free stuff from the Government?
Please elaborate, what free stuff?


You know they do pay taxes.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 6, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
bluering posted
They have no documentation to provide for their free gov't stuff. Otherwise they'd be 'documented'. Why do you think the number of people claiming some form of gov't assistance has grown so big?

Haha what? Can anyone understand what that says? They can't get benefits because they don't have documents that's why so many people get benefits?

Lots of undocumented workers use other people's SSN's and forged IDs to work. They then pay taxes/FICA/Medicare for benefits they will never be able to receive. That's in addition to the sales, property, rental, vehicle and other taxes that literally everybody pays. We exploit them by paying them lower wages, we exploit them by committing crimes against them that they are afraid to report, we exploit them by letting them pay taxes while receiving few benefits and we exploit them by scapegoating them for our problems they have little to do with. All the while the evidence points to immigration being a net positive for our economy.

#MuricaLogic
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
Haha what? Can anyone understand what that says? They CAN get benefits because they don't have documents that's why so many people get benefits?

Fixed the one word.

Yes. That is correct. That is the current, f*#ked-up system. And you thought I was just being illogical.
dirtbag

climber
May 6, 2016 - 01:40pm PT
Jeb bush won't vote for trump.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/jeb-bush-trump-222915

No big surprise there. He joins Mary Matalin and William Kristol as committed non-Trump voters. Lindsay Graham won't vote for him either.

Fellow torture lover Dick Cheney will.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
I am happy that our medical facilities provide help to those in need...

That's very nice of you, you buyin'?

EDIT:
Jeb bush won't vote for trump.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/jeb-bush-trump-222915

No big surprise there. He joins Mary Matalin and William Kristol as committed non-Trump voters. Lindsay Graham won't vote for him either.

Fellow torture lover Dick Cheney will.


Oh no!!! All my go-to gurus of fake conservatism have left me?

I guess I'll have to vote for Hillary now.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
May 6, 2016 - 02:01pm PT
Mooseright!
dirtbag

climber
May 6, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
We shouldn't let people die. I don't mind paying for it.
dirtbag

climber
May 6, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
Oh no!!! All my go-to gurus of fake conservatism have left me?

I guess I'll have to vote for Hillary now

Small tent conservatism consisting of absolutists is bound to lose.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
Yes, as a matter of fact, I am.

Happy to do it. Stop being such a greedy ass.


DMT


Funny, I don't remember asking for your worthless opinion.

EDIT:
We shouldn't let people die. I don't mind paying for it.

Who's letting people die? The VA? Can you send me a copy of the your gracious extra payment to the IRS?

Of course you won't. And of course you won't pay a f*#king penny more than is required.
dirtbag

climber
May 6, 2016 - 02:35pm PT
No one is letting people die. And I don't mind contributing to pay as much as is required.

I know, taxes = tyranny/theft/commienism. Well boo-fooking-hoo.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 6, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
No one is letting people die. And I don't mind contributing to pay as much as is required.

How much would you be willing to pay to provide healthcare and college tuition for everyone?

Would you be willing to pony up another $10,000.00?

How about $20,000.00?
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
May 6, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
A few weeks ago, while they diverted us over transgender bathrooms, the President flew urgently to Saudi Arabia to beg them not to cash in 750Bn of Treasuries.

Trump, has pissed off the Chinese. They are signalling they will dump Treasuries in the Trump era.

Credit markets are in decline despite the dead cat bounce in equities today.


Lawn chairs and wine to watch the end of the world.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Norton

Social climber
May 6, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
IMPORTANT - TO STOP THE BULLSH!T

The U.S. Social Security Administration estimated that in 2013 undocumented immigrants—and their employers—paid $13 billion in payroll taxes alone for benefits they will never get.

They can receive schooling and emergency medical care, but not welfare or food stamps.

Ten Myths About Immigration | Teaching Tolerance - Diversity, Equity ...
http://www.tolerance.org/immigration-mythsTeaching Tolerance
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 03:02pm PT
Lawn chairs and wine to watch the end of the world.

Cool, I only have about 5 mos sobriety.

Found this for Elezarian;

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/434807/donald-trump-his-supporters?target=author&tid=900280

From a man I think we both have much respect for. Victor Davis Hansen, I always like his stuff. I haven't read him in a bit and wondered what his take was after Cruz dropped out.

especially coming from the Trump-bashing National Review.
dirtbag

climber
May 6, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
Political sh#t spraying aside, that is fabulous news about your continued sobriety.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 6, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
yes build a wall to keep the illegal PhDs out ;) huge problem.

Huge.

DMT


Respectfully DMT.... if it was you loosing your job you might feel differently. LOL....

They shitcanned 5 really good engineering veterans and replaced them with some "guest workers" ...... pretty sad, those guys had family's to support and now they are out of work. And the replacements.... well they are good people too, I train them, and they want jobs so they can send the $$$$$$ back "Home"....but they don't know mechanical stuff like the old engineers.



Don't think it can"t happen to you

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
The wall isn't going to keep these people out
It's a giant waste of money

It's Reaganomics that killed jobs in America, they sent them over seas so they could get more tax breaks and line their pockets with cash.

The Government could create millions of jobs tomorrow, but the Republicans would rather build walls in Iraq so they can employ Halliburton.

You want jobs, vote for them, and stop voting for Republicans.
Rather than build a wall, why not pay for green jobs or infrastructure?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
What happened to Trump's donations to veterans?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/03/politics/donald-trump-veterans-donations/

The Trump campaign said the event raised $6 million for different veterans groups, with Trump himself contributing $1 million, but details released by the campaign Thursday show only about half of that money has been dispersed so far.



Looks like he's not so great with charity after all, he just says he gives money away, but little of it actually leaves his little grubby hands.
Just another one of his scams
Norton

Social climber
May 6, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
My wife and I came to the USA educated and ready to work. Zero investment from the USA. We started working and paying taxes right away. How is that a bad deal for the USA?

did not know that about you, Moose - really good on you and your wife and the USA for everything good you have brought with you to this country
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
Stop employing educated people from abroad?

Stop employing all aliens?

The H1B visa process just needs to be properly adhered to, maybe refined a bit. Before getting granted the visas, companies are SUPPOSED to prove they can't hire somebody already here.

Like all things though, if improperly implemented and maintained, it will fall apart.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
Trump wants to send anyone that aMuricun isn't their first language back to where ever they came from!
If he can't figure it out, we'll just drop you off in Tijuana

So you're out Moose
Get on the BuS

Luckily, I'm Canadadun, so my I can fake aMuricun
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
We really appreciate your sacrifice Anders

that 6666 is a coveted Prize, that's for sure
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
I hope our Dedicated 666 member will be able to score another coup
Very Coveted!!
Just think
we can add another 6 and the crappy manip will look more balanced out
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 6, 2016 - 05:03pm PT
Moose.... did you come into this company on a H1B visa?

To work for 3 years and go home?

That is the "NEW THING" right now, bringing in SKILLED (Cough cough) labor that we don't currently have in the USA.

To be clear... I am not anti-immigrant. I am anti Illegal immigration...

Think of all of the hurt and pain caused, to everyone involved, because our government will not enforce the law. We have fine people who were brought here when they were little kids, who grew up here and now they are in a sort of limbo... that is wrong. And hard working folks who illegally crossed the border to make a better life for themselves and their family... with the understanding that the USA will not enforce the law..... and all the while tons of folks wait in line .... a 10 year process..

This is a screwed up system and its the FEDERAL Government JOB to do this immigration process... its totally Fu%K up.

They FAILED.

And don't worry Moose, I like people from all over the world, I welcome them. I wish our government would do the right thing and stop not enforcing the laws.


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 05:16pm PT
I sent Cosmic a PM a couple months ago to try and rekindle our friendship
Since I was near the top of his LisT.

His response, queue the 666.
So the 666 has been approved by CC as a good response for Satan

If he asked me to stop, I would readily take it down.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
This is a screwed up system and its the FEDERAL Government JOB to do this immigration process... its totally Fu%K up.

They FAILED.

And don't worry Moose, I like people from all over the world, I welcome them. I wish our government would do the right thing and stop not enforcing the laws.


I agree completely. And yeah, one of the primary functions of our Federal gov't is defense of our borders.

They have failed, and allowed the problem to fester. Now that it's gotten out of control and people want something done to control it, we're racists or something.

Scandanavian and other European countries are having their chickens come home to roost too. Same problem.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
one of the primary functions of our Federal gov't is defense of our borders.

They have failed,

Here is the Problem Blue

You FAIL (and your sources) to provide any evidence of any of these border problems you vaguely point fingers at.

Please provide some actual facts in your own words (we don't want a bunch of links)

because we heard a completely different version of facts than what reactionary xenophobic far right wingers claim
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 05:37pm PT
Craig, I'm not trying to sell you anything. Just providing my analysis.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
I didn't ask for any sales pitch
I just want to analyze the evidence of the problems at the border

I want to factually know what's going ON down there,
or why are we even bothering at all to talk about a multi 100 dollar billion dollar wall
how many people are getting thru?

don't forget that anyone can FLY over it Legally

How many people will the Wall keep out?


At least answer this one question
Will Mexico pay for Trump's Wall?
Norton

Social climber
May 6, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
A 31 ft ladder take care of Donald's 30 ft wall
duh
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 6, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
If Trump attended a KKK cross burning tonight he wouldn't lose over 10% of his supporters.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
May 6, 2016 - 05:58pm PT
I woke up and the year is 2016. Is this Great Pumpkin thread still happening?
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
May 6, 2016 - 05:59pm PT
Trump's wall is stoopid...the Narcotels have tunnels and submarines ;-(
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
What about the Koonuck Borders

We got to keep out those white people, right?

I want a wall to protect my JOB???
Who will build my Northern Wall??

And up in Alaska tooo, that border is WiDe oPen!!


News Alert!!!!!

I just found out that there isn't eVen a damned BarbeD wire fence between Alaska and Russia, a Hostile foreign Nation!!!

Bluering, Do we have the resources and funding to put up a barbed wire fence along all our borders?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 6, 2016 - 06:17pm PT


[Click to View YouTube Video]


Look at those fire guys wasting time and money with a panga boat loaded with refugees..
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 6, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
Norton writes:

"A 31 ft ladder take care of Donald's 30 ft wall
duh"



Maybe if you want to fall over backwards when you try to climb it, landing your ass right back in Mexico.

For a 30' wall, you'd better have a 40' ladder.

About half the illegal aliens are ass holes who've overstayed their visas.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 06:37pm PT

About half the illegal aliens are ass holes who've overstayed their visas.
Chaz

what are the other half?
rapists?

Are you for Trump's wall?
Will it keep out the ass holes?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 6, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
About half the illegal aliens are ass holes who've overstayed their visas.

And it's estimated than less than 1% of those are sent back. http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/06/less-than-1-percent-of-immigrants-who-overstayed-visas-were-deported-in-2015/

So what's the point of a visa deadline if there is no penalty for over-staying? It's a ridiculously broken system.

It needs to be honestly, effectively over-hauled.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 07:26pm PT
Sorry Blue
They had a bill that passed both parties in the Senate that over=hauled the system for almost everything YOU want,
But the tea baggerers wouldn't allow it to be brought to the floor by Boehner for a vote
because they knew it would pass,
the tea bagger billionaire funders said "you bring it to the floor, we will take your first born" or something like that, so he succumbed and hence no action

They screwed you once again,
The party that you endorse

They screw every hour of the day in lost wages and insecurity
They use fear and anger so you will support them, even though they screw you unknowingly.

This whole thing about a Wall is based on displaced fear and anger
we don't need a wall, we need to focus on the source of the problems
and that is Money in politics
Norton

Social climber
May 6, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
That is true

the US Senate back in 2013 passed a comprehensive Immigration Bill that dealt with deportations, sent it over to the Republican controlled House and the "Freedom Caucus" or the most extreme Tea Party faction pressured Speaker Boehner into not even allowing it to come up for a floor vote, dead on arrival.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/immigration-bill-2013-senate-passes-093530
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
Well at least we need a barbed wire fence along the Canadadun Border

To make sure their high Que Weed doesn't taint our soil


if it goes over OR under our F-ing National Barbed Wire fence, we will BURN ALL that sHiT down

And I mean BURN
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 08:16pm PT
Braun
only 30 more posts!!
I'm off the pace, need Blurry back to spice it up

Satan is holding me back from getting the coveted prize, I wont make it !!1116666///

I'm throwing the towel in early,

Good Luck Cosmic
I know you can log on in at the perfect time to take it!
You have the force...
Use it wisely
zBrown

Ice climber
May 6, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
In the spirit of the ST, what is 100 Canada dudes doing in swimming pool?
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 6, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
The arrogant ignorance on this thread is entertaining. So confident that they are always right. In the words of a wise man I once I heard "Stupid Americans"
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 08:26pm PT
I know exactly why there are 100 Canadians in a pool

It's a Free Hot Springs Commie pool, right??

It's all about free stuff with those guys
Government provided Hot Spring pools,
pffftt

you guys need to waste more money protecting oil fields in the ME

HOT Springs are for pussies
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 6, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
Well at least we should put up a barbed wire fence between us

It's the only way to keep us saFe
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 6, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
What is Mr. Kahns perspective on terrorism. I would imagine being from Pakistan he can appreciate, that there exists a pronounced group of individuals that have the full intention of destroying western civilization. Considering the mass of war refugees in Europe I am interested in what he has to say.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 6, 2016 - 09:13pm PT
So is him being from Pakistan just political ploy to gain voters sympathies or does he have global perspectives to share. I am interested and know very little about him.

So far I feel I like the masses will give him the Nobel Peace prize just for being elected
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 6, 2016 - 09:31pm PT
This is all new since 2009:




Trump's not talking about doing anything new, just finishing the wall President Obama started.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 7, 2016 - 08:05am PT
locker

climber
"STFU n00b!!!"

May 6, 2016 - 03:01pm PT

Ridiculous and useless question...

Right. Because most of the time, when people talk about paying more taxes, what they're really talking about is other people paying more taxes.

OPM
monolith

climber
state of being
May 7, 2016 - 08:20am PT
You sure you want that Klimmer cuz state polling shows Sanders outpolls clinton vs Trump by a wide margin in the battleground states.
monolith

climber
state of being
May 7, 2016 - 08:23am PT
More ark on the moon fantasy from Klimmer.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 08:43am PT
George W. Bush
Hours after 9/11
with his ever present BFF, Karl Rove

Bush’s Response To 9/11 Attacks
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/exclusive-new-photos-show-bushs-response-to-911-attacks/
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 7, 2016 - 08:49am PT
Ahem (you dumbasses)

U.S. Representative Duncan Hunter, a Republican from California and the then-chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, proposed a plan to the House on November 3, 2005 calling for the construction of a reinforced fence along the entire United States–Mexican border. This would also include a 100-yard (91 m) border zone on the U.S. side. On December 15, 2005, Congressman Hunter's amendment to the Border Protection, Anti-terrorism, and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005 (H.R. 4437) passed in the House. This plan calls for mandatory fencing along 698 miles (1,123 km) of the 1,954-mile (3,145-km) border.[14] On May 17, 2006 the U.S. Senate proposed with Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006 (S. 2611) what could be 370 miles (600 km) of triple layered-fencing and a vehicle fence. Although that bill died in committee, eventually the Secure Fence Act of 2006 was passed by Congress and signed by President George W. Bush on October 26, 2006.

Idiots.

DMT


You really don't get the problem, do you?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 08:50am PT
Klimmer
You've tapped into the evil under belly of Fake News, BS and professional liars

The NY Post, Fox News, Info wars!!

all these media sites make up BS and are allowed to go on the air because of people like you buy it..
This whole diatribe about Hillary being a liar is just too much,
sure the FBI are looking into her e-mails, but she will never have criminal charges brought up no matter how bad it seems.

I feel sorry for you now, you need cult reprogramming work

None of it's real
It's pure evil at it's heart, lying for money and which ends up destroying lives.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 7, 2016 - 08:53am PT
Meme's are to make it clearer to idiots who don't have the capacity to research the details and understand the truth. Many are inaccurate but this one is true.

(cuz Trump said it)

Trump Supporter, apparently otherwise intelligent human.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 7, 2016 - 08:56am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

May 7, 2016 - 08:50am PT
Klimmer
You've tapped into the evil under belly of Fake News, BS and professional liars

The NY Post, Fox News, Info wars!!

all these media sites make up BS because of people like you

I feel sorry for you now, you need cult reprogramming work

None of it's real
It's pure evil at it's heart, lying for money and which ends up destroying lives.

Don't forget Huffington Post. Another fake news source... gone over to the dark side.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 7, 2016 - 09:02am PT
Klimmer posted two stories, one of which was from Huff Post.

You responded with:

You've tapped into the evil under belly of Fake News, BS and professional liars

The NY Post, Fox News, Info wars!!

all these media sites make up BS because of people like you

I feel sorry for you now, you need cult reprogramming work

None of it's real
It's pure evil at it's heart, lying for money and which ends up destroying lives.

Sorry the obvious connection was lost on you.
Norton

Social climber
May 7, 2016 - 09:02am PT
Huffington Post, has few of its own reporters and simply prints under contract from the same news pools as most everyone else does, such as Associated Press and Reuters

It is not even "widely read"compared to the tradition CBS< NBC>ABC sources

so as an online news source Huffington Post cannot be called "fake", unless of course every other news source everyone else uses is also fake
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 09:03am PT
agreed
Sorry for the confusion

Some News sources are completely BS, some have BS mixed in

You have to be careful when you read what the source is
Like I should have done
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 7, 2016 - 09:05am PT
bump
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 7, 2016 - 09:06am PT
I totally get it bluering.... illegal immigration is way down and your corporate overlords are moving all their mfging to Mexico.

That would be great if it were true. I've proposed this for years now. Moving the vast majority of Chinese mfg to Mexico, especially the electronics mfg.

Mexico gets wealthier and more work, we get less people looking for work here, and we don't have to ship sh#t clear across the Pacific.

But carry on. Its good to know you haven't changed one damn bit.

DMT


Am I supposed to change? Who am I trying to impress here, you? Because you disapprove?

That's pretty rich.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 09:06am PT
Time to add another 6 on the forehead of the Beast!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 7, 2016 - 09:09am PT
Craig F...You win the 6666 prize...A free Trump ballot...Remember he's not perfect...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 09:09am PT
NWO II
Well it's good to hear you haven't been sucked in by Trump's BS

He's not perfect, but Hillary LIES!!!!

Who should I vote for????
It will be hard to pick when Nov. comes around


Bluering
you don't get it

other wise you wouldn't be posting the things you write
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 7, 2016 - 09:14am PT
From Klimmer;
White House admits it played us for fools to sell Iran deal
By John Podhoretz May 5, 2016 | 8:39pm
http://nypost.com/2016/05/05/playing-the-press-and-the-public-for-chumps-to-sell-the-iran-deal/

Didn't everybody and their mother understand that we got utterly screwed in the Iran Deal? That little rat Ben Rhodes spilled the beans.

It almost like we intentionally screwed ourselves. For what?? We got nothing of consequence, they got everything they needed.

The worst deal ever, at least in modern history. It's quite unconscionable that the Obama team gets away with this.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 7, 2016 - 09:20am PT
From the story linked in Klimmer's NY Post piece:

I also understand why Obama pulled the plug on America’s engagement with the Middle East, I say, but it was also true as a result that more people are dying there on his watch than died during the Bush presidency, even if very few of them are Americans. What I don’t understand is why, if America is getting out of the Middle East, we are apparently spending so much time and energy trying to strong-arm Syrian rebels into surrendering to the dictator who murdered their families, or why it is so important for Iran to maintain its supply lines to Hezbollah.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 09:23am PT
Sketch
Typical misleading BS

more people dying there on Obama's watch? WTF???
Does he not forget that Bush created ISIS?

and is he recommending we go back to stop all the killing by more killing?

and what does that have to do with IRAN
I tried the link, it would just freeze up my computer
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 7, 2016 - 09:29am PT
I can understand Obama not winning the war. He's not a war-winning kind of guy. I get it.

But there's no excuse for Obama losing the peace.

How the hell do you lose the peace when you're the Peace Guy, with the Peace Prize to confirm it?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 7, 2016 - 09:33am PT
more people dying there on Obama's watch? WTF???

It's true, even if there "aren't any boots on the ground". Funny trick, huh?

and what does that have to do with IRAN

I'll pretend you're serious. Iran controls Syria through Assad and Hezbollah. Sometimes the Iran Rev. Guards even get involved on Syrian and Iraqi soil to help things along.

The Syrian mess is a direct result of the Arab Spring that was fertilized by our State Dept under Hillary, Susan Rice, Samantha Powers. Nice job at diplomacy, Hillary!

Hillary is the same one who proclaimed, "We came, we saw, he died", with her annoying cackle-laugh as she danced and celebrated Ghaddafi's death. This is after Ghaddafi warned her what would happen to Libya if he was deposed.

Ghaddafi was right. Our State Dept got it wrong. It was amateur-hour.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 7, 2016 - 09:42am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

May 7, 2016 - 09:23am PT
Sketch
Typical misleading BS

more people dying there on Obama's watch? WTF???
Does he not forget that Bush created ISIS?

and is he recommending we go back to stop all the killing by more killing?

and what does that have to do with IRAN
I tried the link, it would just freeze up my computer

Disregard the excerpt I quoted.

New York Times = FAKE NEWS



I always enjoy Craig's intellectual rebuttals.

WTF? = It's not true.

Bush created ISIS = It's not Obama's fault.



Craig Fry = Leftwing version of The Chief.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 7, 2016 - 09:53am PT
Klimmer.. The Clintons , like the Trumpafarian , aren't perfect...My inside source says they are god fearing christians...so what if they screwed people with the White Water transaction..Vote for Hillary...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 7, 2016 - 09:57am PT
haha, headline from the Financial Times; "A stunning profile of Ben Rhodes, the as#@&%e who is the president's foreign policy guru".

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/06/a-stunning-profile-of-ben-rhodes-the-as#@&%e-who-is-the-presidents-foreign-policy-guru/

Not just an as#@&%e, but an incompetent foreign policy analyst.


EDIT:
My inside source says they are god fearing christians.

My inside source says your inside source is full of shit! Are you serious with this crap?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 7, 2016 - 10:07am PT
My inside source says they are god fearing christians

Yet, a number of their supporters (on ST) like to paint Chrisitians as small-minded, superstitious morons.
Norton

Social climber
May 7, 2016 - 10:13am PT
Do you guys think you should bother to go and vote knowing that your state is going to end up giving its Electoral Votes to the other political party's nominee in November?

Being on the losing side is just a waste of time, isn't it?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 7, 2016 - 10:15am PT
Being on the losing side is just a waste of time, isn't it?


Keep trying, propagandist. I ALWAYS vote, even when the options suck.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 7, 2016 - 10:15am PT
He wants to audit the Fed. So too does Sanders.

My inside sources tells me that's exactly why neither will be president, whether elected or not.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 7, 2016 - 10:16am PT
Hey, blue...are you gonna vote Trump?

(sorry if you've answered this earlier.)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 7, 2016 - 10:16am PT
Of course, Ap.
kattz

climber
May 7, 2016 - 10:16am PT
Why are you arguing, people?


Don't you know already that anything that does not agree with canned liberal set of views is WRONG, by definition, automatically?


(by analogy, if someone tells you a flying saucer had landed in their backyard....is there any point to argue?)
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 7, 2016 - 10:18am PT
Norton writes:

"Do you guys think you should bother to go and vote knowing that your state is going to end up giving its Electoral Votes to the other political party's nominee in November?"


My vote is going to cancel out your vote. So doesn't that make your vote a waste of time too?

And in the case of tax-raising initiatives requiring two-thirds to pass, my vote wipes out your vote and one of your buddies' votes.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 7, 2016 - 10:25am PT
Do you mind explaining why?

Trump is not a Christian....he's not a Conservative...his business policies lean pretty heavily towards gov't intervention...he really hasn't proposed any kind of substantive policy (in spite of endless sound bytes).

I know this isn't the kind of candidate you'd prefer, so it leaves one to believe you're gonna vote for him solely because he's on the GOP ticket, and of course Hillary is not an option.

Why would you do that?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 7, 2016 - 10:48am PT
If you believe Trump is a Conservative, you really don't understand conservatism at all.

Edit: Here....try this:

Paleoconservatism, the movement that explains Donald Trump, explained
Updated by Dylan Matthews on May 6, 2016, 11:50 a.m. ET

One of the strangest allegations leveled against Donald Trump by his Republican critics is that he's not a conservative — or even, in the most extreme version of this critique, that he's actually a liberal.

Insofar as these commentators are criticizing the recency of Trump's conservative convictions, well, fair enough. In an earlier life he was indeed a big fan of universal health care, wealth taxation, and legal abortion — and if his recent pivoting on taxes and the minimum wage is any indication, conservative fears that he would return to his more liberal roots in the general election may yet be vindicated.

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/6/11592604/donald-trump-paleoconservative-buchanan
Norton

Social climber
May 7, 2016 - 10:56am PT
My vote is going to cancel out your vote. So doesn't that make your vote a waste of time too?

true, but only if you live where I live, New Mexico

but then perhaps you do not remember from high school civics class that it is not the national popular vote but each State's Electoral Votes that determine who will be President?
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 7, 2016 - 11:08am PT
Sweet mystery of mysteries, this thread is like a broken record. LOL!!!

How about at least change the conservation tilt a little. For instance, the Donald is going to have to show up in court in San Diego after the election but before the inauguration,http://bigstory.ap.org/article/09c4888b50484599974fc0c008203e5d/judge-consider-timing-trump-university-trial

IF Hillary (and that does seem to be a big if) is indicted, would this be the first time both presidential candidates would have outstanding legal issues prior to election?


Second; Is my "Make Donald Drumpf Again" hat worth more with the Donald winning or losing the election?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 7, 2016 - 11:09am PT
Do you mind explaining why?
Simultaneously easy and difficult!

Trump is not a Christian....he's not a Conservative...his business policies lean pretty heavily towards gov't intervention...he really hasn't proposed any kind of substantive policy (in spite of endless sound bytes).

He's better than Hillary.

I know this isn't the kind of candidate you'd prefer, so it leaves one to believe you're gonna vote for him solely because he's on the GOP ticket, and of course Hillary is not an option.

Why would you do that?


You just said it yourself. He's not Hillary. And he's got some good qualities that could be useful in getting things accomplished in Congress and the country.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 7, 2016 - 11:21am PT
Klimmer, that stuff's a riot. Keep it coming! Too funny.

I can't hear most of it. Trump's dog whistles are a bad frequency for my aging ears. You are pretty tuned in, it seems.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 7, 2016 - 11:24am PT
Crankster, I've been hearing this more and more lately. This is much more interesting to discuss. People do tend to forget the prophecies that are wrong, but I suppose time will tell...

Edit; ALL men (and women) have dreams and visions
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 7, 2016 - 11:24am PT
"He's better than Hillary."

So that's it? A vote for Trump is going to be a vote against Hillary?

I get it if you don't like Hillary. But what do you think about Trump as a candidate...as the representative of your Party?
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 7, 2016 - 11:26am PT
I have faith he will continue to change for the better.

based on his bankruptcies, con jobs, failed marriages, or the vile sh#t that constantly dribbles from his mouth?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 7, 2016 - 11:28am PT
Cosmic's a bright guy. Seriously, what about Trump makes you want him as president of the country? Other than he's not Hillary.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 7, 2016 - 11:33am PT
Apogee, since you're a nice guy and you may not have heard my thoughts about the whole thing, here it is;

Independent conservatives like myself, often called Republicans, have been getting lip-service for years from candidates we elect. The border is the most obvious example.

We get told one thing to get them elected, and they almost always fail to carry through with clear pledges. It almost seems as though once they get absorbed into the 'machine', they forget about us and only look out for what's good to keep the machine greased.

Almost nobody in Washington seems to really care about the welfare of the country. Both sides of the aisle, but I'll focus on the Repubs. There are a few 'true patriots' who actually do the work they were sent to do. They are usually marginalized by the 'machine' as sh#t-disturbers and ideologues just trying to get attention.

Ted Cruz is one of these. Love him or hate him, he kept his promises to his Texas constituents. He did what they elected him to do, and that should be demonstrable of what is wrong with DC. Ted was called all kinds of names by his party leaders for doing what his constituents sent him to do.

I have the utmost respect for Ted Cruz. He would be a great president, and maybe a better SC justice.

Problem for Ted is that he's too conservative for too many Americans to get elected, at this time.

But Ted Cruz and Donald Trump share something, and of course that is the fact that they are despised by their party elders. And this is why so many conservatives like them both. Rubio was considered too much of an insider for people like me. Same with Bush.

Independents are fed up with everybody too. And DC in general. As I said, Cruz is too conservative-appearing for most I's, but Trump is a sh#t-disturber who can be moderate.

Trump appeals to a wide swath of people, across all demographics. Cruz does not, and neither does Hillary. Trump should win. I'd be o.k. with that.



overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 7, 2016 - 11:37am PT
Prolly...
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 7, 2016 - 11:44am PT
So. Interesting stuff;
July 9, 2015 - shortly after Jeb Bush announced that his super PAC had raised $114 million.
"We still don't know the details of who gave all that money, but we believe some of it came in the form of million - and even multimillion dollar checks from a small handful of right-wing mega-donors." - Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook
May 5, 2016 - shortly after Donald Trump becomes the presumptive Republican Party nominee.
"Hillary Clinton's supporters in recent days have been making a furious round of calls to top Bush family donors to try to convince them that she represents their values better than Donald Trump." - Politico
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 7, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
"Trump appeals to a wide swath of people, across all demographics. Cruz does not, and neither does Hillary. Trump should win. I'd be o.k. with that."

He appeals to the low-information, racist voter.


10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 7, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
Simple. Trump is going to do the right thing and clean up our government from all the corruption and change things for the better.

Naivete
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 7, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I find it incredibly disingenuous of avowed Conservatives to say that Trump is a good representative for their ideology and candidacy.

It's very easy to find scores of examples as to why he is not Conservative in most senses of the ideology, and there are plenty of truly conservative political leaders out there who have no plans to support him: Paul Ryan, Lindsay Graham, and on and on.

If a Conservative could come forward and say, 'hey, I really don't like Trump, don't think he represents conservatism or GOP in any kind of favorable way, but I'm going to vote for him because having him in the WH is more likely to result in an advancement of my Party's agenda than Hillary'....that kind of statement is at least honest and genuine.
dirtbag

climber
May 7, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
Klimmer this is your man trump mocking a persons disability.






Would Jesus do this?

Does this look like a man who will do great things?
c wilmot

climber
May 7, 2016 - 12:40pm PT

Clinton and trump are longtime friends and both lifelong democrats

they successfully trumped... our elections by creating a fake candidate using trumps wwe charector to rile up dumb americans

we have a choice of %1 close friends

like Kerry vs bush

R.I.P democracy
dirtbag

climber
May 7, 2016 - 12:45pm PT
A kook!

But at least he is teaching kids science.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 7, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
F*#k, I forgot about that.

He's a goddam teacher.

If Trump would promise to fire every f*#king proselytizing Christian teacher from our public school system, I'd give him strong consideration.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 7, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
Donald Trump can change for the better. He admits he has many faults. He's human.

Not until they come up with a vaccine for APD
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 7, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
So Klimmer, if you say that by the bible a person doesn't have to be good to accomplish good, what in particular is it about Donald Trump that makes you believe that he is the man for the job? He's not perfect, Hillary isn't perfect, but they could both be puppets of the one true god.

Whose imperfection is perfect enough for your vote, hypocrite?
Norton

Social climber
May 7, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
Great men of science know G-d.

Another lie

Fact:

93 percent of the members of the National Academy of Sciences, one of the most elite scientific organizations in the United States, do not believe in God.


Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 7, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
Donald Trump doesn't have to be a Christian to be used by G-d.



Well, that explains Keith Richards.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
"Great men of science know G-d was created by man for his own amusement"
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 7, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
93 percent of the members of the National Academy of Sciences, one of the most elite scientific organizations in the United States, do not believe in God.

You can cherry pick surveys from where you want.

Here's another survey:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/24/opinion/la-oe-masci24-2009nov24

51% believe in God.

And a specific list of famous scientist who did might surprise you.

http://www.famousscientists.org/25-famous-scientists-who-believed-in-god/

Some of those guys are thought to be pretty good scientists, including a couple who are pillars of science.

I didn't know a poll was proof of science or God, anyway.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 7, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
"It was recently revealed that, toward the end of his life, Albert Einstein wrote a letter in which he dismissed belief in God as superstitious and characterized the stories in the Bible as childish. During a time when atheists have emerged rather aggressively in the popular culture, it was, to say the least, discouraging to hear that the most brilliant scientist of the twentieth century seemed to be antipathetic to religion. It appeared as though Einstein would have agreed with the Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harrises and Richard Dawkins of the world in holding that religious belief belongs to the childhood of the human race."


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 7, 2016 - 04:35pm PT
It's making more sense now.

If one can make the leap of logic to believe religion and science are the same, then believing Trump is a reasonable conservative candidate for their Party is a piece of cake.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 7, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
You can cherry pick surveys from where you want.

Here's another survey:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/24/opinion/la-oe-masci24-2009nov24

51% believe in God.

Norton's figure comes from a pool 1/1000th the size of the pool in your survey. The 00.1%.

Clearly his number is more representative of the scientific community.

Clearly.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 7, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
From Klimmer:

"How do you tell a prophet? The prophecy he says/delivers comes true. Simple test."

So, Klimmer, you might be The Prophet of Trump. The mind boggles.

Edit: Tell you what, Klimmer, I, right now, on this public forum, prophecy that The Donald is anathema in the eyes of God and will lose the election to Clinton. If this happens, my prophecy will have come true and you must acknowledge me as Prophet. I thank you in advance.
Norton

Social climber
May 7, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
No,

Norton's pool was taken from a poll ONLY of the members of the National Academy of Sciences

and so the poll is not representative of the general population or of ALL scientists

but what difference does it make unless one is trying to make some kind of point that either refutes or supports their own bias to begin with

my posting of it in the first place was simply, and only, to correct Klimmers statement that "great men of science know god", which would be true if the vast majority DID believe in some kind of god, certainly not the god of the bible Klimmer believes in
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 7, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
Ha ha ha ha. Klimmer, watch this and learn:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 7, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I find it incredibly disingenuous of avowed Conservatives to say that Trump is a good representative for their ideology and candidacy.

Maybe I was not clear enough earlier, but people like myself find Trump to be the one that's THE MOST APPEALING of THOSE WHO CAN WIN.

What's odd is that on one hand people say Trump has no positions, and on the other say he's not conservative enough, how can you support him?

I think he will do things in the interest of the US. Pundits will argue and pontificate on what kind of policy it appears to be.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
How about the Wall?
what is his plan?

How much will it cost?,
will it stretch from the Gulf to the Pacific?
How high?, how deep?


Where will the Great Golden Trump door be located?
How much Gold will they use?

Do you really believe Mexico will pay for it?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 7, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
Werner is the seagull of ST...he squawks, shits and then leaves.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 7, 2016 - 06:04pm PT
This meta-study includes 63 previously conducted studies on the relationship between IQ and religiosity.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/08/new-meta-analysis-checks-the-correlation-between-intelligence-and-faith/

The conclusion is that the two have a strong negative correlation.

Curt
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
If you don't believe the same stuff they believe, they call you closed minded

But if you ask them if they believe in 1000 other beliefs that other men believe and will die for, they say that those beliefs are bogus.

So hence, their minds are just as closed, they just cherry pick what they believe in, and are complete "atheists" when it comes to other religious beliefs.

so in other words, to say that my mind is closed is completely hypocritical,
their mind is closed, period.

if they were open minded, they would accept new information that contradicts their beliefs, and then change their beliefs to incorporate the new information that is true..

That's what scientists do, change their beliefs as new information is revealed.

so in definition, a true scientist can never be closed minded.
They must remain skeptical and let the science reveal the truth.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
Huff Post Headlines

THE GRAND UNRAVELING
Top Conservatives Abandoning GOP... Bush: Trump Lacks 'Temperament'... GOP's 24-Hour Meltdown... Allies Break With Ryan Over Nominee... Lindsey Graham: He's Not A 'Reliable Republican Conservative'...
Former GOP Senator: He's A Sociopath... Scramble For Third-Party Candidate...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 7, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
And the reverse is sorta true, too, blue...

...but people like myself find Hillary to be the one that's THE MOST APPEALING of THOSE WHO CAN WIN.

The difference is that Hillary has actual political leadership experience. Not that I'm trying to convince you or anything. Just sayin'.
Norton

Social climber
May 7, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
In the end, truth will out. Won’t it?


Maybe not. Recently, a few political scientists have begun to discover a human tendency deeply discouraging to anyone with faith in the power of information. It’s this: Facts don’t necessarily have the power to change our minds. In fact, quite the opposite. In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds. In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.
 http://archive.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/#sthash.FpZOSxny.dpuf
Norton

Social climber
May 7, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
just to be clear, here we go again?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
There is no hope in changing the minds of Bluering and Klimmer,
nor JE, Sketch, Eskochea, couch, blah blah blah....

That was the whole point of the "why are Republicans wrong about everything" thread
To try and figure out Why they are wrong, they believe completely wrong info that has been proven to be wrong, and they repeat it anyway even after they were told that they were wrong (is it in spite, or they just want to be a dick, or they would rather believe the wrong info just because they are wrong about everything?), they don't care, they retort that You are the one that's wrong, but they never provide any proof to support their side.

They are wired differently, some how fear and anger dominates their ability to do any critical thinking.
Instead they seek out authoritarian leaders, or are introduced to them by their parents, and follow their talking points and reject any contrary info.
Their authority is the only source they will accept their so called "facts" from, everything else is tainted with commie germs and must be ignored or shunned

I think much of it has to do with natal care, if the mother is highly stressed, it releases stress hormones that may influence the child to be more fearful and have innate "hate" of the others not in their tribe.

you can Google it for more info
Cortisol baby stress hormones fear conservative
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
I study religions too Klimmer

That doesn't make me a Believer

It's scientific curiosity that makes me want to know
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 7, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
Bill Mayer

Trump is whiny little bitch
and a pussy

so true
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 7, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
I like him and it seems like a lot of other people do to.
Norton, are you still taking bets about how Trump will get blown out by Hillary?

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 7, 2016 - 08:33pm PT
Except, Klimmer, you want us to know and accept YOUR God. The leap of faith to accept that your God is the only and right god .... what can I say? How about you accept my god as the only god? She's always right, you know.

Klimmer, can't you see that acceptance of some sort of super-natural power, I.e. god, is a decision each person must make? You are constantly forcing YOUR god, may she rest in peace, as the 'right' god, but reject others gods. How can you rationalize this? Only through belief, but you refuse to accept others beliefs as valid. WTF? Believe what you want. Belief is belief and n'er the twain shall meet.

Personally, I believe (therefore a valid position per you) that there is no god, that events in this universe are not determined by some fantastical supernatural being guiding all our lives and events. Believe what you want, but stop trying to convince me to believe what you do. My belief is exactly as correct as yours, except you don't want me to be able to have it. What a load of BS.

When Trump loses, what will you say? Will you join the Jonestown crowd? Will you examine what you have stated and rethink your position? No, I'm sure there will be some 'biblical' explanation of why you misunderstood god's order, or something. What a load of bollocks.
jstan

climber
May 7, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
I guess God was just fuking with them.

We have learned something. God does not believe in polls.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 7, 2016 - 09:00pm PT
We have learned something. God does not believe in polls.

Can you blame him? Maybe we'll take a poll to see if you exist.


POOF!

No more duck.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 7, 2016 - 09:18pm PT
How does G{}D figger out how to choose who to use?

Did G{}D work through Himmler in Germany?

€£•¥


Keep the faith! Y'all didn't pay a deposit.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 8, 2016 - 07:08am PT
They will be missed...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcDnETtz8xs
monolith

climber
state of being
May 8, 2016 - 07:10am PT
If god can work thru Trump, then I can see how he could make a donkey talk.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 07:33am PT
NEWS ALERT!!!

Trump LIES

he told Howard Stern that he was for the W. Bush Iraq invasion.
Now he says he was against the war form the start.

I bet we can find another 100 lies if we bother looking, how come the billionaire funded right wing conspiracy smear machine only works on Dems?

When are they going to turn it on selves to see all the lies they spew?
hypocrites
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 07:33am PT
dirtbag

climber
May 8, 2016 - 08:40am PT
I can't imagine establishment business donor types rushing to him. Not only would it be throwing money down the toilet, but reckless and half-assed statements such as when he said he could renegotiate US debts clearly shows that despite his supposed economics acumen he does not know what he is doing. I can't imagine them thinking it would be a good idea having his finger on the economic button.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 8, 2016 - 08:56am PT
I dunno, that taco salad tweet just might have turned the election in his favor. Shows he loves "The Hispanics". If he does another one at a bbq joint he'll cement it with "The Blacks".

If you vote for Trump, you’re voting for the whole package: the repeated lies, the pledge to discriminate against Muslims, the demonization of Mexicans, the disparagement of women and the disabled.
Is that who you are?
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 8, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
Jesus Christ Klimmer, I have seen/hear of conspiracies all the time but you take them really seriously. When I see your sources for information, a lot of them, 90% are exactly what I am talking about.

Moon, “Mystery Missile”off L.A., Twin Towers, video of missile hitting the Pentagon, Chemtrails and what maybe a few dozens more. As for god saying that Trump will the next president, I haven’t heard it from Pat Robertson since he talks to god all the time and has said nothing about it now or even 12 months ago like he always does.



Ok! let’s see how many of the techniques used in the above photo applies to Trump?

Here are a few quotes you might like as for your thinking process especially later few about god and the almighty,

“I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few.”

“The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.”

“The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.”

“All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.”

“But the most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success.”

“All propaganda must be confined to a few bare necessities and then must be expressed in a few stereotyped formulas . . . Only constant repetition will finally succeed in imprinting an idea upon the memory of a crowd.”

“The receptivity of the masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan.”

“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior... I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

“If we pursue this way, if we are decent, industrious, and honest, if we so loyally and truly fulfill our duty, then it is my conviction that in the future as in the past the Lord God will always help us. In the long run He never leaves decent folk in the lurch. Often He may test them, He may send trials upon them, but in the long run He always lets His sun shine upon them once more and at the end He gives them His blessing.”

Are you ready?

[1] Attacking one's opponent, as opposed to attacking their arguments.

[2] Uses tireless repetition of an idea. An idea, especially a simple slogan, that is repeated enough times, may begin to be taken as the truth, limiting or controlling the media.

[3] Authoritarian [Dictator] to support a position, idea, argument, or course of action.

[4] Appeals to fear seek to build support by instilling anxieties and panic in the general population.

[5] Using loaded or emotive terms to attach value or moral goodness to believing the proposition.

[6] Bandwagon and "inevitable-victory" appeals attempt to persuade the target audience to join in and take the course of action that "everyone else is taking." ["The debate is over. Nearly everyone who matters agrees with me."] convince the audience that a program is an expression of an irresistible mass movement and that it is in their best interest to join.

[7] Suggests if people buy a product or follow a certain ideology, they too will be happy or successful.

Trump: ” This country is going to be so great and people will be so tired of having too much money”

[8] LIE: the really, really big ones. The art of propaganda is not telling lies, but rather selecting the truth you require and giving it mixed up with some truths the audience wants to hear."

[9] "common man" approach attempts to convince the audience that the propagandist's positions reflect the common sense of the people.

[10] Individual uses mass media to create an idealized and heroic public image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise. In this case the opposite "Foxie" news created Trump.

[11] Making individuals from the opposing nation, from a different ethnic group, or those who support the opposing viewpoint appear to be subhuman, worthless, or immoral, through suggestion or false accusations. Dehumanizing is also a termed used synonymously with demonizing, the latter usually serves as an aspect of the former.

[12] Using images and words to tell the audience exactly what actions to take. His TRUMP emblem on his aircraft with him in front of it.

[13] Disinformation. *Could write a few hundred on that alone.

[14] Generates euphoria or happiness, or using an appealing event to boost morale. Euphoria can be created by declaring a holiday, making luxury items available, patriotic and saying everyone is going to be rich when he gets in.

[15] An exaggeration (or hyperbole) occurs when the most fundamental aspects of a statement are true, but only to a certain degree. It is also seen as "stretching the truth" or making something appear more powerful, meaningful, or real than it actually is. Saying and seeing tens of thousands of Muslims cheering on the day of 9/11 when they actually 7 or 8 would be considered an exaggeration.

[16] Fear, uncertainty and doubt; influence public perception by disseminating negative and dubious/false information designed to undermine the credibility of their beliefs.

[17] Inevitable process of selective influence over the individual's perception of the meanings attributed to words or phrases.

[18] Bombarding a political opponent with obnoxiously criticism as in name calling in rapid fire during a debate to make the opponent appear to not know what they should do in reacting back with similar words or actions and not addressing the issues or questions.

[19] Half-truth is a deceptive statement that includes some element of truth. It comes in several forms: the statement might be partly true, the statement may be totally true but only part of the whole truth, or it may utilize some deceptive element, such as improper punctuation, or double meaning, especially if the intent is to deceive, evade, blame, or misrepresent the truth.

[20] Take a more even extreme position that will make more moderate positions seem more acceptable.

[21] Specific words and phrases with strong emotional implications are used to influence the audience, for example, using the word reforms rather than a more neutral word like changes.

Jesus do I need to continue but for you yes.

[22] Lying and deception can be the basis of many propaganda techniques including above number [1] arguments, Big-Lie, Defamation, Door-in-the-Face, Half-truth, Name-calling or any other technique that is based on dishonesty or deception. For example, many politicians have been found to frequently stretch or break the truth.

[23] Mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. This idea is consistent with the principle of classical conditioning as well as the idea of "Staying on Message."

[24] Name-calling technique to incite fears and arouse prejudices in their hearers in the intent that the bad names will cause hearers to construct a negative opinion about a group or set of beliefs or ideas that the propagandist wants hearers to denounce. The method is intended to provoke conclusions about a matter apart from impartial examinations of facts. Name-calling is thus a substitute for rational, fact-based arguments against an idea or belief on its own merits.

[25] Provide simple answers to complex social, political, economic, or military problems.

[26] Presenting data or issues that, while compelling, are irrelevant to the argument at hand, and then claiming that it validates the argument.

[27] A slogan is a brief, striking phrase that may include labeling and stereotyping. Although slogans may be enlisted to support reasoned ideas, in practice they tend to act only as emotional appeals.

[28] Stereotyping: This technique attempts to arouse/create prejudices in an audience by labeling the object of the propaganda campaign as something the target audience fears, hates, loathes, or finds undesirable. For instance, reporting on a foreign country or social group may focus on the stereotypical traits that the reader expects, even though they are far from being representative of the whole country or group; such reporting often focuses on the anecdotal, this might include portraying enemies with stereotyped racial features. Making fun of disabled people is a good target.

[29] Soft Power: Works on the principle that people are more willing to accept an argument from a seemingly independent source of information than from someone with a stake in the outcome. It is a marketing strategy commonly employed by Public Relations (PR) firms, that involves placing a premeditated message in the "mouth of the media." The third party technique can take many forms, ranging from the hiring of journalists to report the organization in a favorable light, to using scientists within the organization to present their perhaps prejudicial findings to the public. Frequently, as groups or front groups are used to deliver the message.

[30] Visual, this technique often utilizes symbols (for example, properties, planes, golf course, gold chairs and toilets, free rides in helicopters originally a symbol for health and prosperity) superimposed over other visual images.

[31] Virtue Words: These are words in the value system of the target audience that produce a positive image when attached to a person or issue. Peace, hope, happiness, security, wise leadership, freedom, "The Truth", etc. are virtue words. Many see religiosity as a virtue, making associations to this quality effectively beneficial.

Klimmer can you name even one maybe two from the above that he knows how to do best using/saying slogans like “Make America Great Again” and staying away from answering issues. All he is good in is a marketing strategy commonly employed by Public Relations (PR) firms, that involves selling something not knowing about complex issues as in ISIL for one.

He uses everyone but [24] is his one as in name calling and avoiding the issues. Exaggerates about everything when asked on any subject. What he does is talks/speeches and then listens the next day to all the criticisms from all their news agencies especially "Foxie" news and learns what to do or react and change position.

Also when you brought up the subject about Newton and the philosophers stone. Since all it was, was a magic trick at that time, even Newton was a victim himself but intrigued him to the point in writing volumes of material on the subject even today some are trying to encrypt his notes. But just to correct you the English would hang the tricksters for fooling the audience of their monies that was the main reason. So you were half right if someone did or could create gold the gold standard could be compromised as in devaluation. but fraud was their main concern at that time.

I am curious just as a side argument what do you feel about teachers having sex with their students, is that a sin or ok with you since you are in that field and some say it is ok as in the one in the picture. If you do not recall she pleaded guilty to two counts of felony second degree rape of a child, her 12-year-old student. Known as “Americas favorite sex offender”. It does have a relation to the election especially with Trump.


By the way all of the quotes above came from Adolf Hitler. Guess Trump knows how to use history, same tech to get what he wants.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 8, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
Lots of good kool aid must be flowing this weekend.. liberland lovers still on the Trump is a hitler scheme..
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 06:32pm PT
No one said that Trump is a Hitler Scheme
We just noted that Donald Trump reads Hitler's speeches for his personal education
and is using the same play book

http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-ex-wife-once-said-he-kept-a-book-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8

I wonder if he learned how to speak like a True Leader from the Master
he's accumulating the same psychological crowd that Hitler was able to persuade.

Right Wing Authoritarian Followers
Norton

Social climber
May 8, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
liberland lovers still on the Trump is a hitler scheme..

hardly, I have a number of Republican friends who tell me they will not vote for Trump
because in addition to seeing remarkable similarities between him and Hitler they are also very concerned about the damage to the US economy they believe he will do

but all that is what it is, what is more interesting to me is trying to understand why it is that people still say they support Trump, in spite of a growing mountain of reasons that are making even very high rank Republican say they will not, ever, vote for him

so make your case, pyro, using all your powerful intelligence, what is it that you adore about Donald so much that makes many republicans hate him so much?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 8, 2016 - 06:37pm PT
"I have a number of Republican friends who tell me they will not vote for Trump"

Me, too...one of my oldest, dearest friends is a lifelong Christian Conservative, and he says he plans on voting for Hillary.

He's a smart guy- one of my most important role models.

The rest of you supposed Conservatives who are voting for Trump...please don't have any more children.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
Senator McCave
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-mccain-donald-trump_us_572f4451e4b016f37896221d

McCain Caves to Trump

I predict that this post will attract our shitting seagull
How long until we get the splatter?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 8, 2016 - 06:45pm PT
"I have a number of Republican friends who tell me they will not vote for Trump"

Me, too...one of my oldest, dearest friends is a lifelong Christian Conservative, and he says he plans on voting for Hillary.

He's a smart guy- one of my most important role models.

The rest of you supposed Conservatives who are voting for Trump...please don't have any more children.

A smart guy wouldn't vote for Hillary either....

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
WRONG
Sorry to inform you of some facts you may want to consider

all the smart people are voting for Hillary

every single one of them

Trump has sewed up the not so smart crowd
"I love the uneducated"

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 8, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
lol...ok
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 8, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
Yeah, fear, much better to just not vote, and sit in your little hovel and bitch to the world on climbing forums about how f*#ked up the country is.

I'll pass along your advice. Pfffft.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
You can vote for Gary Johnson, the libertarian candidate

and show your personal resolve to change the system

that way you stay pure and not waste your precious vote on a tainted mainstream political candidate
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 8, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
Facts...pesky little things...http://www.demos.org/blog/why-most-educated-americans-vote-democratic
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 8, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
Yeah, fear, much better to just not vote, and sit in your little hovel and bitch to the world on climbing forums about how f*#ked up the country is.

I'll pass along your advice. Pfffft.

Awwww.... come on... I'm just pokin' you guys. Of course we'll change the world by voting for the next puppet! That makes total sense.
kattz

climber
May 8, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
the question of exactly why educated voters are more liberal on social issues? The answer is intuitive: Education tends to increase one's exposure to different viewpoints and kinds of people, fostering tolerance

Nope. "More educated" people tend to be:

1) brainwashed by typical US college propaganda. I had seen some prime examples, as I got my 2nd education here. The BS they pour in various "mandatory" classes rivals USSR commie lies (these I had seen as well). Numerous generally worthless progressives "educators" are leeching off college money, spreading their destructive ideas. (get rid of these leeches...and may be there'll be less student debt)

2) "educated" people tend to me more removed from reality, living in their little fake safety bubble created by books, etc
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 07:38pm PT

Wow...You are so educated, if only the rest of the world was so single-minded. If only in 100 years you could really see how ignorant you really are. But, fortunately for you, ignorance is bliss and you are always on the right side
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
Thank you for your well reasoned responses
Please provide a link so we can read more on your opinions about educated people

So by your logic, less educated people are smarter ?
Is that what you're saying?

or is it that all well educated people are commies?



Please clarify the confusion, I'm not smart enough to figure it out
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
Well first off, I would never cite a website on par with demos.org as a credible objective resource. Hey look at infowars.com they have some very interesting information on Obama...Its all garbage.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 8, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
Ok, fear, I'll bite.

In a Hillary vs Trump election, what will you do that day?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
That's not a link Cosmic
you fail again
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 8, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
It's always amusing when someone says the educated people who learned reasoning, the scienticific method, and various types of analysis are brainwashed, while believing the transparent nonsense of the right wing echo chamber.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 8, 2016 - 07:49pm PT
"Well Educated" doesn't equate to "Successful". There's the rub.

Successful people gravitate to freedom.......merely well-educated people gravitate to statism.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
No. I am wary of websites that claim political absolutes, as well as, I cannot identify with stereotyping entire religious beliefs with intelligence.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
Successful people gravitate to freedom.......merely well-educated people gravitate to statism.

Please provide a link so we can read more about you opinions

otherwise, I call it complete BS
Norton

Social climber
May 8, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
"Well Educated" doesn't equate to "Successful". There's the rub.

that may be the single most ignorant statement ever posted

why don't you call Joe the Plumber instead of a "Harvard" Cardiologist to handle your heart surgery 35 years from now

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 8, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
From the radical Pew research. http://www.people-press.org/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
The destruction of the party begins!

Donald Trump Keeps Antagonizing Paul Ryan
Huff Post

Trump wouldn’t rule out removing the House speaker from his role as GOP convention chair if he doesn’t get an endorsement.

WASHINGTON — GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump on Sunday suggested that House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) would face consequences for not endorsing the businessman as the party’s presidential nominee.


Who's next on Trump's list that Will Face Consequences?

Everyone that doesn't Endorse him, that's who.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 8, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
Fact...http://www.politicususa.com/2015/11/17/red-state-stupidity-confirmed-9-10-education-states-america-vote-republican.html
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 08:03pm PT
What...do you need a link to think for yourself. His reply makes sense that successful(purely monetary) will gravitate towards freedom, which could easily equate towards having the resources to acquire whatever that one person desires, whether that's shelter, business or fine food. In an capitalist society money is power. Climbers, in my opinion, have a better perspective of success and freedom.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
Freedom from what?

from lame ass right wing talking points?

what do you want freedom from? the Gov?

No Government regulations means no climbing areas open for climbing
and it means about 90% less jobs, since our country depends on the Gov so we can have free enterprise.

your whole freedom vs, statist meme is complete BS


And not every successful person is a rich fascist like you imply

I'm successful and educated, and am offended by the implications of your BS
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 8, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jul/29/facebook-posts/are-97-nations-100-poorest-counties-red-states/
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
I am not right wing. I have a difficult time watching people, that are so consumed with their absolute truths and beliefs, totally discredit entire groups of people or religions because they hold different beliefs

The hypocrisy and ignorance is mind numbing
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
I have a difficult time with people that don't know how our Government works, but act like they do.

ANd then get upset when told that their opinions are not accurate, and happen to align themselves with right wing talking points that are BS
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Oh please enlighten me..
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 8, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
What...do you need a link to think for yourself.

It appears as though some people on the forum are incapable of thinking for themselves and will post walls of text -cut and paste style - instead of thinking for themselves.

As I said earlier, well educated doesn't equate to successful or smart apparently. At least in the case of a few ST posters, the hypothesis is holding true.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
Pick side and be a martyr not matter what
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 8, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/22/republicans-climate-change_n_7119158.html
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
The 10 Dumbest States In America Are Republican

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/05/24/10-dumbest-states-america-dominated-republicans.html

Here are the top 10 dumbest states in America:

10). Tennessee

9). Oklahoma

8). Indiana

7). Alabama

6). Nevada

5). Louisiana

4). Kentucky

3). Mississippi

2). Arkansas

1). West Virginia


The free'ist states must be producing a lot of successful people, like Eskochea says, education puts you behind in freedom.

please provide a link to this successful = freedom vs. education = statist BS
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 8, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
Ok, fear, I'll bite.

In a Hillary vs Trump election, what will you do that day?

Yikes, I hope you don't bite.

On that day, coming soon, I'll go climbing if the weather is good and run it out far more than I should. If not I'll probably put in 50-100 miles in road or mountain riding angst.

Not that I believe voting in major 'elections' really counts a lick anymore, but even if I could suspend my disbelief for a moment behind the curtain I simply couldn't put a mark next to either puppet listed above.

I'm tired of constant murderous wars and meddling in foreign affairs that gets our brave men and women (and many more of "the enemy") killed for nothing. I'm tired of the 24x7 Propaganda machine that seems straight out of Orwell's texts. I'm tired of being robbed and threatened by the powers that be to fund the empire's murderous exploits.

And voting for either Trump or Hillary just lends credibility to a corrupt and totally broken system.





trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
Really? I thought for sure California was number 1
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
Maybe, If I make a list, than post a link it will become one of Bob's facts
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 8, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
"Maybe, If I make a list, than post a link it will become one of Bob's facts"


Nice emotional response.

Prove them wrong...you can't!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
California is the 10th smartest state

so wrong again
100% wrong so far


trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
I'm tired of constant murderous wars and meddling in foreign affairs that gets our brave men and women (and many more of "the enemy") killed for nothing. I'm tired of the 24x7 Propaganda machine that seems straight out of Orwell's texts. I'm tired of being robbed and threatened by the powers that be to fund the empire's murderous exploits.

And voting for either Trump or Hillary just lends credibility to a corrupt and totally broken system.


The perspective I relate to and many of my peers, I am young and was once actively involved political change. The hypocrisy, manipulation of people and the eco-rape called a civilized society now makes me sick to affiliate with any party.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 8, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
California is the 10th smartest state

so wrong again

I rest my case......
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 08:32pm PT
Shoot.. Craig I thought for sure I was right on the little factoid
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 08:32pm PT
^^^
all your gripes
that's what Reagan and the right media have given us

They just blame it on the Dems or anyone else they can point fingers at
rather than telling us it was all their fault

If you want more info, dig into this
This whole anti-Government freedom thing is straight from the Koch Brothers whining about paying too much taxes and their freedom to pollute and not be regulated
$100 billion is not enough, they must have it all!

Think of Mr. Burns on the Simpsons, he has played the whole right wing mob to do their bidding
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
Nice emotional response.

Prove them wrong...you can't!

Is that a feather in your hat? You are so smart. I wish I could generalize entire states into dumb=republican smart=democrat. You should really solve other global issues by stereotyping. maybe Muslims=dumb christens=smart
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 8, 2016 - 08:38pm PT
You must be under the impression that I care who's to blame.

Both parties are equally complicit in the march to statism.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
None of us generalized about smart vs. dumb states.
we just Googled it to check out the facts
and posted the results

are you that dense?
You should really solve other global issues by stereotyping. maybe Muslims=dumb christens=smart
apparently you are

why don't you Google that and report back with the results
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 8, 2016 - 08:51pm PT
Yes clearly I am dense. I need to see things much more black in white. In absolutes, without understanding or attempting to see the bigger picture
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
Wrong again

Who said anything about black and white?
You're just wadding in the tub of politics, you have so much to learn young grasshopper

It's very intricate and nuanced
If you believe the right wing lies, you're screwed

they will make it look black and white, and mislead you with BS about all the sides are the same

there is so much, stay tuned in


We know Eskochea doesn't care.

Just like your typical trump supporter
they don't care that he lies, cheats, is a bad businessman, is a serial adulterer, forces women to have abortions if they are his, is a con man, a scam artist, has insulted almost every demographic and no business running for president

they don't CARE!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 8, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 8, 2016 - 09:22pm PT
Democrats often are corrupt, lie, only care about power, and are controlled by their donors. Republicans are twice as bad.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 8, 2016 - 09:29pm PT
Yes clearly I am dense. I need to see things much more black in white. In absolutes, without understanding or attempting to see the bigger picture

It's kinda like trying to discuss points of religious beliefs with devout believers from Book of Fables A vs Book of Fables B. Neither one can see that their book is perhaps factually flawed because the other guy's book is more wrong. Oh.. and he other guy is "stupid".

It can be entertaining though.

Bread and circus for everyone. Heavy on the circus until November. We'll eventually run out of bread.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 8, 2016 - 09:52pm PT
"Not that I believe voting in major 'elections' really counts a lick anymore, "


I can understand that sentiment, except that the fact that a f*#king idiot like Trump who is reviled by the entire Republican establishment, and still manages to become the GOP candidate, says something about how the system might not be as rigged as it seems.

If the GOP Establishment truly had complete control, Bush III would be happening right now.

I can't stand Trump, but you gotta hand it to him for managing to completely go around the GOP Establishment to get where he has...it's been a true narcissist's dream for him.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 8, 2016 - 10:45pm PT
All the crimes they may have committed but never been convicted of? I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were guilty of serious crimes, but if there were real proof they'd be in jail, many prosecutors would love to take them down. Not to mention all the right wing "journalists" that would love to expose their crimes, but despite years of trying they have no proof of anything serious enough to keep her out of the White House. Meanwhile you have Trump's own words right of of his own mouth championing bigotry and misogyny, but that's okay. Well I guess it's okay if you are okay with bigotry and misogyny..
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 8, 2016 - 11:36pm PT
These are current crimes and unethical behavior as Secretary of State. In other words current crimes, not considering all the others she's committed in the past.

You'd have a lot more cred if you can point to links to your rants against Dick Cheney. He actually did commit war crimes.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 9, 2016 - 05:55am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.

May 8, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
The 10 Dumbest States In America Are Republican

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/05/24/10-dumbest-states-america-dominated-republicans.html

Here are the top 10 dumbest states in America:

Your list places Indiana as the 8th dumbest

Let's look at some Indiana stats.

Median Household Income (2013): $47,529 (34th)

Average IQ and Ranking: 101.7 (19th)

Poverty Rate 12.6% (32nd) - Equal the national rate

The stats don't seem to support the ranking. Why is that, Craig?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 9, 2016 - 05:57am PT
^^^^^ I already stated why that disconnect exists.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 9, 2016 - 06:02am PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 9, 2016 - 06:09am PT
Craig posted
The 10 Dumbest States In America Are Republican

This is a pretty shitty partisan attack. It's measuring "smarts" by SAT and IQ scores, the performance of which are going to be based on the floor not the ceiling. I would hypothesize that the "smartest" states are scoring higher on standardized tests because they have invested more in public health and education. Of course, partisans want to imply that dumb people vote Republican but I think it's more likely that having a consistent Republican government correlates with lower investment in the kinds of things that allow people to score well on standardized tests. The people bringing the averages down are very unlikely to vote at all.
monolith

climber
state of being
May 9, 2016 - 06:19am PT
The list was based solely on percentage of residents with at least a bachelors degree.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 9, 2016 - 06:20am PT
What an excellent metric.
monolith

climber
state of being
May 9, 2016 - 06:21am PT
Maybe if you read a little deeper, Sketch, you wouldn't have had to ask such a dumb question.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 9, 2016 - 06:24am PT
Klimmer, I'll read that book after I finish this one...

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 07:36am PT
The people bringing the averages (intelligence) down are very unlikely to vote at all.
HDDJ

Please provide a link so we can read more abut your opinions
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 07:44am PT
Hillary says the FBI has not even contacted her for more information about her e-mails

and that everything MARKED "Classified" at the time was never handled on her personal server..

What now, is she lying?
probably not
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 9, 2016 - 07:44am PT
Why would anyone send criminals back to The White House?

isn't that where they live?
dirtbag

climber
May 9, 2016 - 07:45am PT
Klimmer is upset because she has pledged to oppose moon ark and bible code research funding.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 07:50am PT
If Trump wins,
He's going run the Country like a Business

and public schools will be the first to go, much too expensive and they make zero in Profit

Then science, then space exploration, healthcare, environmental regulations, they gotta go

they all lose money, that's no way to run a business

it will be drill baby drill, and sell it to those f-ing rapists China for big profit

selling off the public lands could also bring in some nice cash
I'm sure Russia and China would like some big parcels of our National Parks

and why restrict mining, Trump could make a great deal with them to give us some of the royalties, like other third world Nations

Question?
Does Trump get to pocket the extra cash he makes as President through his dealings?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 9, 2016 - 07:58am PT
Best I could do on short notice. I'll be back.

Voter turnout percentages

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 9, 2016 - 08:01am PT
Hillary says the FBI has not even contacted her for more information about her e-mails
she ly'n!


If Trump wins,
He's going run the Country like a Business

and public schools will be the first to go, much too expensive and they make zero in Profit


those stupid teachers UNIONS are to blame for the EXPENSE..
Trump will not pocket the money you crazy man he has too much of his own cash to worry about the cash in the pocket..
zBrown

Ice climber
May 9, 2016 - 08:03am PT
The problem, Guarente says, is that it’s nearly impossible to prove, in any reasonable time frame, that drugs that extend the lifespan of animals can do the same in people; such an experiment could take decades.

The stupidity expressed on this thread is reason enough, without experimentation, leading to the suspicion that the trend to less voters may be a mixed bag.

Need to see the breakdown by category. You know who you are.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 08:03am PT
Thanks pyro
you nailed it

it's those Unions

Let's bash all unions, destroy them, cut their funding

that'll cure most of our problems, right?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 9, 2016 - 08:07am PT
"those stupid teachers UNIONS are to blame for the EXPENSE.."


Another dumb ass assumption.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 9, 2016 - 08:10am PT
Rev up your search engines gentlemen (you know who you are) and others.

The investigative journalists who reported on a trove of data about offshore companies of the rich and powerful are making the names of 200,000 entities available in a searchable database.

The International Consortium of Investigative Journalists says the data from Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca will be published Monday at 1800 GMT (2 p.m. ET) on its website .

They contain basic corporate information about companies, trusts and foundations in 21 jurisdictions including Hong Kong and the U.S. state of Nevada. Bank accounts, phone numbers and emails were left out.

Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 9, 2016 - 08:10am PT
Klimmer! WOW oh WOW!

Glenn Beck says G-a=w-d is going to punish America for Trump winning the Republican primary race and you say G-a=w-d favors Trump.

OH what a fickle G-a=w-d!

In a tearful segment before a studio audience on Thursday, Glenn Beck said he believes America is a “petulant child” that God has warned repeatedly and now must punish.

Beck, a fervent supporter of Sen. Ted Cruz, campaigned tirelessly for the Texas senator, who he believed to be “the next George Washington” and a man “anointed” by God and “raised for these times.”

Cruz’s loss in the Indiana primary on Tuesday to the GOP’s now presumptive nominee Donald Trump was especially difficult for the radio talker because he views Trump as a Hitler-like psychopath.

Beck told his studio audience, “When we say we don’t know what the Lord has in store for us, oh I do: our reaping of what we have sown. So, I really think this was the last reckoning for us.”

“We just continue to make the wrong choice,” he added. “So, I would look for the things that we’re supposed to learn as individuals, but I think the country and all of us as individuals are going to reap what we have sown, and there’s nothing that’s going to get us out of that.”
Beck then spoke of God’s judgment in dire terms. “His consequences are eternal. And they are not judgments. They are promises. You do this, and this is what happens. You do this and this is what happens. We did that, so we’re going to get that.”

“Now, we can still turn to Him, which all of us have done it, and can say, ‘Help us make it easier. Help us learn from it. Help us help other people through it,’” he added.

“But I don’t think there’s a savior running in on a white horse because quite honestly — we’re a petulant child. We’re the child that we have talked to, we have reason with, we have put in timeout, we have grounded, we have spanked, and the behavior is getting worse,” Beck said.

He explained that God couldn’t dismiss our punishment after such petulant bad behavior because that would make God “a bad dad.”
“That would be a very bad dad,” he said. “And the one thing I know about God: He ain’t a bad dad.”
 - -

In a segment on his show on Wednesday, Beck declared that Trump will lose to Hillary Clinton and the GOP will never be able to elect another president “because what’s going to happen is you are now going to have Hillary Clinton legalize as many voters as you can, the GOP is going to be completely racist – whether it’s true or not – because of Donald Trump. You will never have another Republican president ever again.”

The news of Indiana’s primary comes on the heels of a very difficult past week for Beck, following news of another round of mass layoffs at his troubled media empire. On Friday, after giving an impassioned “farewell address” of sorts to his 40 laid-off employees from his replica Oval Office, the former radio shock jock joined his co-hosts in donning swim goggles and rubbing his face in a bowl of crushed Cheetos to see if they could “look like Donald Trump.”
http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/05/06/glenn-beck-america-petulant-child-god-must-punish-supporting-trump-cruz/

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 9, 2016 - 08:20am PT
Hey, I heard Glen Beck said something......maybe I should post a link or something.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
May 9, 2016 - 08:21am PT
Wow Glenn Beck catching up to that other double chinner, Limbaugh.
Someone's chowing down on Trump steaks!

Susan
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 9, 2016 - 08:22am PT
Thanks pyro
you nailed it

it's those Unions

Let's bash all unions, destroy them, cut their funding

that'll cure most of our problems, right?


it's a start..



Another dumb ass assumption.

lost in liberland again Bob..
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 9, 2016 - 08:25am PT
If Trump wins,
He's going run the Country like a Business

Perhaps it's time to run this Business like it's a Country.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 9, 2016 - 08:27am PT
Looks like Glenn likely ate those cheetos afterwards... He's gettin' to be a big boy.

Now remind me... why do we care what Glenn thinks?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 9, 2016 - 08:31am PT
Now remind me... why do we care what Glenn thinks?

Because it takes our mind off the thought of Rachel Maddow rubbing Hillary's cankles.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 08:51am PT
The whole public school system is one big "Free Lunch" program!!!

Those commie liberals are even proposing actual "Free Lunches" at these public schools
can you believe IT!!

Investing in science - Free Lunch
Government jobs - Free Lunch

Public roads - Free Lunch
There should be a toll booth every couple miles manned by some mafia thugs to collect the ACTUAL costs of the roads

am I right?



Wade
so true, it's time to run this business like a country again
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 9, 2016 - 08:52am PT
It's over now. Trumps wins.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/azealia-banks-endorses-donald-trump-891709
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 09:00am PT
John Voight has endorsed Trump as well!!
Who'd of seen that coming

I wonder if that Taliban leader Pat Robertson will come around and endorse Trump after he was so in love with Cruz
kattz

climber
May 9, 2016 - 09:00am PT
What's meant to be....will be. Humans don't decide their own fate on a large scale, it's decided somewhere up above...

Western Europe is DONE, and there's no turning back.

Newsflash: the population of the 3rd world countries had exploded, thanks to Western medicine, and every one there wants a piece of fat Western pie while suicidal Western liberals think these people are entitled to receive it. So, until your standard of living is lowered to be equal to the one in the outside world, you guys will have to share :(


Hope you got plan B and a backup landing strip, just in case. (I do)
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 09:03am PT
Hope you got plan B and a backup landing strip, just in case. (I do)

What's you plan B?

I have one also,
but no backup landing strip, am I f-ed?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 9, 2016 - 09:04am PT
"The singer defended her support for the "as#@&%e" GOP candidate"


Yeah, that's what I called Romney too when he ran. SO what?

And this is for Happiegirl;

Illegal immigration from minors is up!
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/border-apprehensions-of-unaccompanied-minors-from-central-america-may-top-2014-levels-8277763

And many of those illegal immigrants consume more welfare than citizens do!!
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/illegal-immigrant-households-get-5692-in-welfare-1261-more-than-american-families/article/2590744
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 09:39am PT
"Corporations are people Too"
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 9, 2016 - 09:42am PT
So, Ricky, should we just send cruise ships to Africa and start loading 'em up?
I know you won't give a straight answer so don't bother.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 09:52am PT
Open Letter to Republicans About Donald Trump

 05/06/2016 08:00 pm ET
Kimberley A. Johnson 


ASSOCIATED PRESS

It’s all come down to a terrifying reality. Donald Trump is now the face of the Republican Party. I realize a growing number of you would argue that Trump doesn’t represent your values, your ideology or your particular brand of patriotism. Many of you are declaring you’d vote for Hillary Clinton over Trump — even my conservative family member said he and his wife would vote for Hillary in November.

A growing number of Republicans say they’d vote for Hillary Clinton rather than give their vote to Donald Trump.
While I’m grateful that a number of you are as repulsed and disgusted at the thought of “President Trump” the rest of the world is, I have a question for you:
What did you expect?

For years the GOP has been openly racist, bigoted and sexist. NEWSFLASH: It’s no longer 1950. There’s this nifty thing called the internet which allows all of us to view that racism, sexism and bigotry WITH OUR OWN EYES.

One would have thought that all the Republican men who were making ignorant, moronic comments about rape in 2012 might have realized that at the very least they needed to keep their slut-shaming, willfully ignorant comments about sexual assault to themselves. But noooo, Republicans held classes to inform these knuckle-dragging ignoramuses to shut the f*ck up about rape if they want to win elections. Evidently all students in the “don’t say rape” classes failed because the victim blaming and the damaging stereotypes continue to this day.

Republicans have waged a war on common decency. Whether it’s about not wanting to bake wedding cakes for gay people, companies denying women the option of birth control on third-party insurance plans — based on the bogus religious “morality” argument - or defunding and lying about Planned Parenthood, conservatives like Erick Erickson have not only been engaging in this abhorrent behavior, they’ve been celebrating it. They’ve embraced inequality, be it based on gender, sexual preference, wages, voting rights, religion — take your pick.

Donald Trump is the direct result of your endless tirades about the non-existent War on Christmas and War on Boys, your unrelenting attacks on the LGBT community, your open hatred for women’s equality and immigrants, and your hatred for African-Americans and all people who are not white Christians. What did it get you? A white supremacist is your representative now.

While there are plenty of Trump supporters, they only represent a fraction of the GOP. Maybe you’re a conservative who isn’t (openly) racist, sexist or bigoted. It doesn’t really matter now. Your silence and inaction contributed to the worst case scenario. If you’re embarrassed, you deserve it. If you’re appalled, welcome to reality. You only have yourselves to blame and while my big toe would probably beat Trump in the general election, I’ll never assume he “can’t win” because he’s swept the primaries and crushed the rest of the clowns vying for the most powerful position in the world.


It’s time for sane Republicans to finally wake up and realize you’ll never turn this country into a conservative utopia where everyone pretends women have no libidos and white (Christian) men are superior.


You’ve been building Trump’s platform for a long while and it switched into high gear in January 2009. You’ve decorated Trump’s stage with confederate flags, swastikas and pictures of aborted fetuses....

theres more
but the ST commie police are going have my hide already for just cutting and pastin

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kimberley-a-johnson/open-letter-to-republicans-about-donald-trump_b_9860488.html?utm_hp_ref=politics
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 9, 2016 - 10:17am PT
Craig posted
Please provide a link so we can read more abut your opinions

Do you really need a citation that less educated people are less likely to vote? Really?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 9, 2016 - 10:45am PT
every one there wants a piece of fat Western pie while suicidal Western liberals think these people are entitled to receive it.

This is a huge part of the problem with many of those on the right. They actually believe all this BS about those on the left.
Every liberal is a really a commie.
Every liberal hates the rich.
Every liberal wants the poor to get free money and not work.

And it seems to them liberals include those left of center, centrists, RINOs, and everyone who isn't sufficiently conservative.

They don't tell us why their ideas are better, they just attack ridiculous straw men from the left and wonder why we don't get it.

They really live in a fantasy world where they believe what they need to believe. Many conservatives seem to think this way. The only liberal who I see on SuperTopo who consistently does this (using hyperbole and claiming it's always bad intentions from Republicans) on the left is Craig Fry. Who may be facetious when he does it, at least some times. But either way I'm glad he's here because he gives them a small taste of their own medicine.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 9, 2016 - 10:52am PT


‘There’s nobody left’: Evangelicals feel abandoned by GOP after Trump’s ascent

LINCOLN, Neb. — Pastor Gary Fuller planned a Sunday service focused on involving Christians in the political process and featuring a speech by the pastor father of Sen. Ted Cruz. But after a week in which Cruz abruptly dropped out of the race, his father scrapped his appearance here and Donald Trump became the Republican Party’s standard-bearer, a dismayed Fuller kept the political portion short.

“Vote according to your convictions,” Fuller told congregants at Gentle Shepherd Baptist Church who will cast ballots in Nebraska’s presidential primary Tuesday. “What you believe is the right thing to vote for, according to the Scriptures.”

He told congregants that the church can’t and won’t promote one candidate over another. But Fuller has a hard time stomaching Trump as the Republican nominee and plans to vote for Cruz on Tuesday, even though the senator has dropped out of the race.

“In a sense, we feel abandoned by our party,” Fuller said. “There’s nobody left.”
dirtbag

climber
May 9, 2016 - 10:56am PT
They should talk to Klimmer.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 9, 2016 - 11:04am PT
"So, Ricky, should we just send cruise ships to Africa and start loading 'em up? "

Didn't we do that 200-300 years ago? Didn't work out to well for them or the South.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 9, 2016 - 11:49am PT
What an idiotic question.

Game recognizes game....
dirtbag

climber
May 9, 2016 - 11:53am PT
Very presidential:


Norton

Social climber
May 9, 2016 - 11:55am PT
Pastor Gary Fuller planned a Sunday service focused on involving Christians in the political process and featuring a speech by the pastor father of Sen. Ted Cruz.


What Pastors May Not Do:

Endorse candidates directly or indirectly from the pulpit on behalf of the church.

http://restoreamerica.org/pastors/legal-dos-donts/
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 9, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
Apogee wrote:You know, dirt, I bet that blue, Klimmer, pyro don't even know about that incident. They live in a bubble, remember, and anything that doesn't support that bubble oftentimes doesn't make it through.


That is why they like him (Trump).
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
Does Trump want to bust up Unions
like pyro is hoping?

We all know those teachers are making way too much money
it's because of their leech like unions.

We need to pay teachers WAY Less if we want to make America Great again.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 9, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
No, it’s Klimmer and a few that are naïve. Listens to what he/they want to hear never checking the facts.

What is “the truth” and anything but the truth. Do people lie?

Any answer Klimmer on that lady raping the boy? Is it ok? Taking a guess, you must agree since no answer or have the opinion as in they were in love.

And it is true about republicans thinking/going to short change teacher’s union and a few others are you Ok with that? You know that socialists and communists helped you win those rights.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 9, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
Apogee wrote:You know, dirt, I bet that blue, Klimmer, pyro don't even know about that incident. They live in a bubble, remember, and anything that doesn't support that bubble oftentimes doesn't make it through.


That is why they like him (Trump).

classic response from a PENSIONER!



Does Trump want to bust up Unions
like pyro is hoping?

We all know those teachers are making way too much money
it's because of their leech like unions.

how the hell did we let these guys go on like they have.. poor union workers can never think for themselves..
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
North Carolina's governor sued the feds to defend his anti-LGBTQ law. The feds sued back.

The Department of Justice said the law violated federal civil rights laws. It argues that existing federal civil rights protections, which ban sex discrimination in the workplace and education, also apply to trans people, because discrimination against trans people is based on gender-based expectations about others.

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11639858/north-carolina-transgender-bathrooms-lawsuit

What a sick State Government NC has, creating laws that have never had an issue of being broken.
They created a straw man then bashed him over the head with their new law

It was just a wedge issue to allow for legal discrimination.
And they ginned it up for their base of bigots to stir up more hate for transgender folks.
dirtbag

climber
May 9, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
I think it 'makes it through' just fine.

The only way to digest it is that they approve of such 'humor'; perhaps indulge in it themselves.

Otherwise they are stupid shits.

I plan to repeat it frequently. Maybe not everyday, but often. There are a lot of reasons to oppose his noxious nomination, but this picture says a lot about him. Anyone who mocks someone's disability like this is unfit to be dog catcher, let alone president. I don't give a f*#k if he otherwise turns water into wine, or sh#t into diamonds.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 9, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
Anyone who mocks someone's disability like this is unfit to be dog catcher, let alone president

so dirt the next time you make fun of my learning disability then I'll remind you of this comment.. I am disabled but can function within society..
dirtbag

climber
May 9, 2016 - 02:23pm PT
"Next time?"

I haven't done that.

Your pal Donald would, if suited him.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 9, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
And it is true about republicans thinking/going to short change teacher’s union and a few others are you Ok with that? You know that socialists and communists helped you win those rights.

To the extent the quote above has any relevance to this stated topic, Donald Trump is a jerk, has no particular stated ideology on public employee unions, and has no particular stated policy on education.

That said, public employee unions have little place in a democracy, since they exist to elect officials with an inherant conflict of interest. Against whom are they protecting the unionized employees? Those nasty citizens? Against whom are the teachers' unions protecting their members? Those nasty parents, students and taxpayers?

I could say much more, but I doubt that anything I say would cause any reader to change his or her mind, so I won't bother. Suffice to say that those precious "rights" come at significant cost to the public those union members purport to serve.

John
Norton

Social climber
May 9, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
so dirt the next time you make fun of my learning disability then I'll remind you of this comment.. I am disabled but can function within society..

pyro, I am very sorry to learn you have a learning disability, this does help understand you much better

seriously, I have a close relative and some friends who have suffered with that their entire lives and it has made things very difficult for them, I have nothing but sympathy for you, pyro

best wishes sir, and I trust you are seeing a professional to help you deal with this
John M

climber
May 9, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
come on JohnE, do you really believe that school districts are powerless?

A teacher is promised a job. Moves.. buys home, makes a large investment in a future, does a good job, and runs into a crazy principle, or a crazy school district that decides to cut their job with no grounds? Do you think that this doesn't happen? I have seen it happen. I have a friend who lost his job because a principle wanted to hire a family friend. My friend was deemed unfit to teach by this principle. It was the union, plus an upwelling of parents who got him his job back.

You can't be that blind.

School districts and schools have a lot of power over teachers. Are teachers unions now too power? yes.. I believe so.. which is why I believe that the state should get involved to balance it out and provide a fund for schools to turn to, to use to fire poor performing teachers. Once this gets done a few times, the unions will wake up and stop automatically protecting every poor teacher.

Its all about balance of power. Unions were and are needed to balance power. Are some now too powerful? Yes.. I believe so. The teachers union is one. But lets not forget that they came into existence for many reasons and those reasons still exist.

And please understand, I long for the day when unions are not needed. But that day has not arrived.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 9, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
I heard you can get Daily Worker back issues online now.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 9, 2016 - 03:01pm PT
What a sick State Government NC has, creating laws that have never had an issue of being broken.
They created a straw man then bashed him over the head with their new law

It was just a wedge issue to allow for legal discrimination.
And they ginned it up for their base of bigots to stir up more hate for transgender folks.

Thanks for that timely analysis.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 9, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
John M, a teacher who gets a job, moves and starts working at a new employer probably does not have tenure, and is not protected from losing that job. In California, tenure generally occurs at the start of the third year of teaching. I know both my daughter and son-in-law (who, of course, I think are excellent teachers), received their tenured status in Fresno Unified then - long before any other professional would normally be considered to have proven themselves. Once a teacher receives tenure, the cost of involuntarily terminating the employment of that teacher becomes prohibitive

The San Jose Mercury-News -- not exactly center- or right-wing in its viewpoint, estimates that the average contested dismissal requires $100,000 in attorney's fees for each side.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_22454531/firing-tenured-teacher-california-can-be-tough

What the article doesn't say, however, is that the "average" case is such clear-cut misconduct that the outcome is never in doubt. If the district loses, it will still be out its $100,000, but will get to pay the union $100,000 for the attorney's fees it incurred as well.

And please note, dismissing a tenured teacher pretty much requires misconduct, not mere incompetence. In other words, if the teacher commits a felony, or a misdemeanor involving moral turpitude, the district can start the dismissal process. If a district wants to fire an incompetent, but tenured and law-abiding teacher, estimates of cost have run into seven figures.

Public school districts in California lack those sorts of resources, so the poor teachers remain employed, usually assigned to the students of the most helpless families, and we the people pay not only the teacher's salary, but the societal cost of failure to provide a good education to people who need and deserve it.

I'm sorry, but employment is not charity, nor is it an entitlement. Public service should require that the alleged public servant actually serve the public. Most teachers I know are excellent, hard-working, and dedicated, but I know (and know of) too many who are not, and remain "entitled" to their employment. We as a society should not stand for that.

john
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 9, 2016 - 03:07pm PT

I'm not alone! I'd suggested over the weekend to some friends who are Democrats that Donald Trump could be to the US what Silvio Berlusconi is to Italy.

John
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 9, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
"I'm sorry, but employment is not charity, nor is it an entitlement. Public service should require that the alleged public servant actually serve the public. Most teachers I know are excellent, hard-working, and dedicated, but I know (and know of) too many who are not, and remain "entitled" to their employment. We as a society should not stand for that."


A we are also a society that should not stand for "at will" employment" where employees can be let go for no reason at all. Two side to every coin John. Your "free for all" attitude is a little discouraging to say the least.


If you are employed it is not charity as you are providing a service and you are entitled to pay for those services.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 9, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
You know, dirt, I bet that blue, Klimmer, pyro don't even know about that incident.

Retards.
John M

climber
May 9, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
somehow I knew that you would nitpick my example. Edit: instead of trying to understand my point..

Look past it. Surely you can see that school districts are not immune from abusing the power that they have. Your family seems to not be able to recognize the benefits that they have received, including protections from nut job school districts and principles. Oops.. falsely accused of sexual harassment. no union.. sorry.. hire a lawyer yourself. oops.. taught a book the school district doesn't like.. no union.. hire a lawyer yourself.. being sexually harassed by a principle.. oops.. no union.. hire a lawyer yourself.. on and on..

or what they heck.. pick up and move and try to find another career because of a poor job review by a vindictive principle.. thats easy enough.

Edit:

Public school districts in California lack those sorts of resources, s


which is why I suggested the fund set up by the state.. did you not read that?

hence.. balancing the power..
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 9, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
“I could say much more, but I doubt that anything I say would cause any reader to change his or her mind, so I won't bother. Suffice to say that those precious "rights" come at significant cost to the public those union members purport to serve.”

May 4, 2016 12:17 PM Source: The Sacramento Bee

California lawmakers kill bills pushed by dissident union members

By Jeremy B. White jwhite@sacbee.com

Dissident public union members left the Capitol unhappy on Wednesday after lawmakers rejected legislation to crack open their unions’ books.
Both that bill and one allowing periodic votes on union representation died in committee, thwarting the effort to illuminate organized labor’s finances and illustrating the steep odds for an effort that has openly defied union leaders. Labor officials say the information is already available and dismiss the campaign as a politically motivated attempt to vilify organized labor.

“The whole issue is not so much about these bills, but it’s about right-wing billionaires fighting for their interest and fighting to stymie the rights of the union,” Theresa Rutherford of SEIU local 1021 testified during a hearing on the bills, saying they would “take away the voice of the employees.”

For years, a DMV employee and SEIU Local 1000 member named Mariam Noujaim has waged a legal battle to see how her union spends the more than $60 million drawn from member dues and representation fees. Noujaim and other disaffected SEIU 1000 members joined a press conference backing Assembly Bill 2753, which would require public employee unions to post itemized budgets online and to respond to members’ written requests for more information.

“I give you my money,” Noujaim said. “Show me how you spend my money, I will know how much you care for me, how much solidarity, and how much you work for us.”

Another bill by Assemblywoman Shannon Grove, R-Bakersfield, Assembly Bill 2754, would compel public unions to hold elections every two years to determine whether they continue to represent workers. Grove and allies called it a way to ensure workers have a say and are satisfied with their representation.

Neither bill stood much of a chance given labor-aligned Democrats’ dominance in the Capitol. Union members lined up against the bills, castigating them as thinly disguised attacks on organized labor. They said unions are already legally required to conduct audits and disclose financial information to their members.

In response to Wednesday’s press conference, SEIU California president Laphonza Butler released a statement calling the bills an extension of attempts by “extremist groups – backed by the Koch brothers – to undermine working people’s voice in their workplace.”
**
**Jeremy B. White: 916-326-5543, @CapitolAlert

Trump has said something about states’ rights but since he has become a puppet now someone will correct him and make sure he agrees.
Norton

Social climber
May 9, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
how do you feel about teachers having more job protection through "tenure", JohnE?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 03:26pm PT
FLASHBACK:
Ronald Reagan Called Union Membership ‘One Of The Most Elemental Human Rights’

Ronald Reagan: “Where Collective Bargaining Is Forbidden, Freedom Is Lost”

Why did he change his mind?
I guess it was the money that told him to change
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 9, 2016 - 03:32pm PT
Best I could do on short notice. I'll be back.

Voter turnout percentages

Stupidest chart ever.

Now put one up that includes those citizens excluded from voting before women's suffrage and the voting rights act of 1965.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 9, 2016 - 03:33pm PT


Should be obvious what has happened with the demise of unions.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 9, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
Bob D'A writes:

"A we are also a society that should not stand for "at will" employment" where employees can be let go for no reason at all."



OK. So long as my employees cannot quit.
John M

climber
May 9, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
OK. So long as my employees cannot quit.

two weeks notice is standard.. and longer depending on the job. without notice, then its expected that you get a poor job review from your former boss..

otherwise you are treating them like slaves..
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 9, 2016 - 03:44pm PT
"OK. So long as my employees cannot quit."


Slave labor when out a long time ago Chaz, you don't own them.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 9, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
So no deal then. At will employment it is.
Stone Cowboy

Trad climber
Livermore, CA.
May 9, 2016 - 03:52pm PT
cynical Amerikans...we are spoiled aren't we?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 9, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
http://www.inquisitr.com/3075012/2016-election-predictions-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/



Music to my ears.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 9, 2016 - 04:17pm PT
easier why to see why he stands zero chance

out the gate he's losing 242 to 102.

and the bloviating windbag was in Washington yesterday stating he'll carry that state. I guess he doesn't mind lying to himself.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
I guess JE doesn't know why there are unions in the first place

That said, public employee unions have little place in a democracy, since they exist to elect officials with an inherant conflict of interest. Against whom are they protecting the unionized employees? Those nasty citizens? Against whom are the teachers' unions protecting their members? Those nasty parents, students and taxpayers?
JE
WTF???

you got it all wrong, I hope you're joking, because you couldn't really think what you posted

but the key is that one person can't take on a huge corporation for grievances, so the union represents you.
It's Democracy at it's purest form, you elect people to represent you.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 05:10pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
I guess Klimmer was wrong

Trump LIES
it has been claimed that no Presidential candidate has ever had a similar record of lying as much



Fact Checkers Prove That 91% of the Things Donald Trump Says Are False

By Sarah Jones on Thu, Mar 31st, 2016 at 12:05 pm

Donald Trump, the Republican front-runner, is at the bottom of the Politifact list with a sad 9% of true or mostly true statements. Just 9% of the things Donald Trump says are mostly related to the truth.
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/03/31/ninety-one-percent-donald-trump-false.html


I wonder if pyro and Klimmer like the 9% that he didn't lie about
maybe they hate the only thing he has been saying that's true

you have to wonder


so now that's it's been proven that Trump lies more than Hillary,
are you going to vote for Hillary?
Your whole thing against Hillary was that she lies, right?

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 9, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
but the key is that one person can't take on a huge corporation for grievances, so the union represents you.
It's Democracy at it's purest form, you elect people to represent you.

Haha. Democracy doesn't equate to freedom. If the employer is required to hire from the union, then it's nothing more than legalized coercion.

Daily Workers unite!!
Norton

Social climber
May 9, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
Escopeta,

you speak as if you have great experience being an employer

how long have you owed your own business and what type of service do you provide?

how many employees do you have and do you pay them hourly or salaried?

do you do your own matching Medicare and SS for your people?

and again, truly sorry to hear you have a learning disability, hope you are getting professional help
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 05:49pm PT
me too
I hope you're getting professional help
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 9, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
Here you go guys. Dig in.

https://www.marxists.org/history/usa/pubs/dailyworker/
Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber
the pitch above you
May 9, 2016 - 06:19pm PT
So Christie has been tapped to lead the transition team... f*#king awesome. Maybe now those of us in Jersey can be rid of him as he disappears entirely up Donald's ass. How long after the sphincter gobbles him up do we have to wait before we get a governor that will govern?
Norton

Social climber
May 9, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
did you sign a contract to hire exclusively union men and women, Escopeta?

tell us if you require non compete clauses in their contracts and are they tradesmen?

what is the depth of your experience paying union dues prior to owning your business?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 9, 2016 - 06:33pm PT
How old are you? Lol
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 9, 2016 - 06:49pm PT
So Christie has been tapped to lead the transition team


That is more absurd than Ted Cruz naming Carly Fiorina as his V.P. running mate.



"Transition Team Leader".

Indeed.


Chris Christie is going to be the guy who shows up with a train load of comfort food, to assist Trump's campaign staff in transitioning away from their Fantasy Land delusions, and back to what 6 billion people call "reality".
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 9, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
Ask Esco a question, and what you get is either no response, or a 'I've answered that question before, look for it yourself'.

What a f*#king loser.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 9, 2016 - 06:58pm PT
Wanna cuddle?
Norton

Social climber
May 9, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
Escopeta,

you seem constantly confused as if you are figuring things out for the first time

it's nothing to be ashamed of, we all had to start somewhere, your journey is just starting
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 9, 2016 - 07:26pm PT
Christie is finished

All the Republican leaders that are openly endorsing Trump will soon regret it
He will become toxic and the toxicity that they endorsed will remembered
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 9, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
Norton,

How many times are you going to edit that post of yours? It's funny watching you do that while trying to say I'm the one that's confused. Lol.



Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 9, 2016 - 07:34pm PT
Hey folks, I want you to appreciate that it was a rainy & windy weekend in SW Idaho, and there have been high-wind alerts today.

It's tough to hunt in those conditions, and it's likly Escopeta hasn't killed anything for at least four days.

No wonder that the lad is posting a lot today, and appears to be a little out of sorts.

As soon as the weather improves and he can start killing stuff again, I'm sure his mood will improve.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 9, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
Orale putos.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
May 9, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
How many times are you going to edit that post of yours?

Escopeta, I edited it just once

and that was to remove any mention of your learning disability, out of respect for you and what you are going through

seemed the decent thing to do

now get back to sucking your thumb
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 9, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
Of course he is going to carry the the women vote..


https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/donald-trump-said-a-lot-of-gross-things-about-women-on-howar?utm_term=.xeXXzNZz2E#.hfD9DkLDZJ
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 9, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
In Germany today...they love the Donald abroad.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 9, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
He will become toxic and the toxicity that they endorsed will remembered


Trumptococcal Septicemia - a virulent, whole-body toxicity that is 99% politically fatal.

The only known cure is resignation and retirement.



It is easily controlled by avoiding contact with infected carriers of the disease.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 9, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
Klimmer....That sucks about the FOIA...I bet Putin is really pissed that he can't see the emails..
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 9, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
Wow. I read Klimmer's post, without looking at the author, and thought he/she was writing about Trump. Still, better follow Klimmer's advice or god will suck your brain..

Klimmer, I'm missing you on the 'Massive Ark on the Moon' thread. That was interesting.

Seriously, dude, you've drunk (drunken?) the Kool-Aid. A bit off topic, but do you support teacher's unions?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 9, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
Too bad the FOIA doesn't apply to the IRS. And when will we get a 'Snowden'
to rain righteousness down on their asses?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 9, 2016 - 08:50pm PT
Why would you do that? Seriously. Why?

Um, to keep a narassistic, bigoted, xenophobe out. Again trumps own words define him, not a book by a partisan with an agenda.

Hillary is a horrible corrupt lying politician. Trump makes her look like mother Theresa.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 9, 2016 - 09:11pm PT
Mother Theresa might be a bit much.

Maybe The Church Lady?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 9, 2016 - 09:41pm PT
Apparently, the voters in New York State thought Hillary was fine since they elected her twice to the U.S. Senate by large margins. And the found her a hard worker and dedicated public servant. Which is how she'll be as President.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 9, 2016 - 11:39pm PT
Trump is a Nephilim Descendant, Sent to Free the Minds of the Children of Gog and Magog

The world is not built for singularity, it's built for duality..... we must build a dualistic world order of equality, not a singular order of tyranny. Where does Trump fit in all this?

The purer Nephilim bloodlines tend to intermarry with Slavic women, who have the purest Aryan/Nephilim maternal blood. Those in the know have groomed Trump for this, because only the strongest individuals can take on the tyranny of the masses...... Gog and Magog Vs. Jesus, the false Christ (the collective slave mind).

Do you wish to live as a community of individuals or as an individual community of slaves? Only Trump can achieve the former, and even if it turned out he was bisexual and murdered a bird on top of his car during a family vacation, it wouldn't change that. Through his daughter, Trump shares his DNA with that of the true Christ: Jan Hus, savior of individuals, and thus, his daughter will be the first Priestess-Queen of the world.

The people must fight for their FRE[e]-EDOM, and only Trump can make that covenant in good faith. Hate these truths if you must, but do not dare insinuate any other candidate will deviate from their bought and paid for views, such Babylonian whores. If you must side with tyranny, side with Bernie Sanders, blood of Ashkenaz and WENDy, as at least everyone will be equally miserable under him, rather than the establishment's caste slavery.

Everything just became so much clearer - he's a shoo-in...
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 9, 2016 - 11:52pm PT
^^^did you write that HEalyje? sounds like your deciphering..


Norton, there's somethin different about you.. amen brother:)
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 10, 2016 - 12:54am PT
Not eye. Punch that title into google...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 10, 2016 - 07:14am PT
A seriously good read...

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/6/11598838/donald-trump-predictions-norm-ornstein

When you look at populism over the longer course of both American history and other countries that have suffered economic traumas as a result of financial collapse, you’re gonna get the emergence of some leaders who exploit nativism, protectionism, and isolationism. They’re components — sometimes greater, sometimes lesser — that are baked into the process. So you’ve got a bit of that.

But if you forced me to pick one factor explaining what's happened, I would say this is a self-inflicted wound by Republican leaders.

Over many years, they've adopted strategies that have trivialized and delegitimized government. They were willing to play to a nativist element. And they tried to use, instead of stand up to, the apocalyptic visions and extremism of some cable television, talk radio, and other media outlets on the right.

Nails it:

if you delegitimize government, and make every victory that occurs partisan and ugly, and then refuse to implement the policies to make things work as much as you can but instead try to undermine them, and you cut government funding, and you freeze the salaries of people in government — well, then eventually you’re gonna have a public out there that basically says, "Anything would be better than these idiots."

So when you get a Donald Trump, who is contentless, and knows less about policy, domestic or international, I would say, than any candidate in the last 50 years — including Pat Paulsen, the comedian — you have a large share of the public who say, "You know, the people who know about policy were the ones who f*#ked all of this up! And how could Trump do worse?"
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 10, 2016 - 07:16am PT
Apparently, the voters in New York State thought Hillary was fine since they elected her twice to the U.S. Senate by large margins. And the found her a hard worker and dedicated public servant. Which is how she'll be as President.

'Lil monkey-Bush was elected President twice too... He couldn't read.

At some point we'll figure out all these candidates are garbage. Or maybe not.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 07:24am PT
You all want to elect a wealthy unlikeable celebrity criminal, at the Peoples' expense and our Nation's expense. Do you care for your country? Do you love your country? Why would you do that? Seriously. Why?

Serious cognitive dissonance. Please seek a psychiatrist's and therapist's help.

You're so right Klim
Trump would be just horrible for the Country

If you're a Trump supporter, you must have serious cognitive dissonance. You should seek a psychiatrist's and therapist's help.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 10, 2016 - 07:24am PT
I've been doing a little 'research' a la Klimmer. It's pretty startling and scary. From 'The Nephilims Among Us':

"After the flood destroyed all of creation, a few elected by God were left to populate the earth. Noah and his sons had passed tradition to their generations of a time when heavenly beings came down to corrupt all of creation. Yet, somehow these Giants returned accompanied by these heavenly Aliens! Who were these Aliens that seem to come from a distant planet? They are none other then the fallen angels who seek to take control of this planet. They are ruled by one who is the king of the air and the power behind the darkness that covers our world.

Satan and his hoard of fallen angels, and the demons of old are poised on the brink of facilitating the most startling phenomenon the world will ever witness. A strong delusion is coming that will deceive even the elect. They will bring about a false new religion that has no need of Jehovah. When the delusion happens it will shake the faith of every Christian who believes in God. I will provide quotes by scientist and theologians who believe that the Alien deception that is coming is demonic in nature."

Watch out Klimmer, could be Trump............
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 07:25am PT
Bush cheated his way to become President twice
all the people that did vote for him were conned
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 07:33am PT
From 'The Nephilims Among Us':

all made up, complete fiction
yet some people think it's true!

Klimmer, do you think that the author had actual communications with someone that told him this information?

can any of it be proven true?

why believe his story, could it be cognitive bias, and that you seek out fiction that fits your conspiracy filled reality?

why not believe in the spaghetti monster, there have been many stories written about him.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 10, 2016 - 08:00am PT
Was that a post and delete job? Missed that one.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 10, 2016 - 08:09am PT
Speaking of Hillary.

Hillary Clinton is going to be exonerated on the email controversy. It won't matter: Washington Post opinion

and ...

So here's what's going to happen from this point forward. Trump will continue to say that she committed terrible crimes. Other Republicans will chime in to agree. Those statements will be passed on to the public with little or no context or correction. Fox News and conservative talk radio will tell their audiences over and over that this is the most horrific scandal since Watergate, or maybe Teapot Dome.

Then, some time in the summer, the investigation will conclude, and Clinton will be exonerated of any criminal wrongdoing. Republicans will say that just proves the fix was in. Trump will promise, as he has before, to appoint officials who will pursue a criminal indictment against her. And significant portions of the public will continue to believe that she must have done something wrong, even if they couldn't quite say what it is, because they've heard all this stuff about an email scandal, and everybody wouldn't be talking about it so much if there wasn't something to it.

quod erat demonstrandum
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2016 - 08:15am PT
Gcf: yep!

Zbrown: yep!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 10, 2016 - 08:19am PT
When illegal immigrant households receive far more in federal welfare benefits - than "native American households - there is something CLEARLY WRONG with the system! Continuing this track will NOT MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! I will fix it, Crooked Hillary will not!

D.T
Reeotch

climber
4 Corners Area
May 10, 2016 - 08:24am PT
^^^^You tend to see the whole illegal immigration issue in a different light when you talk to a Native American about it . . .
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 10, 2016 - 08:32am PT
Pyro,
How much money has trump donated to American Indians?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 08:38am PT
Hillary is a horrible corrupt lying politician.
the Fet

Pretty partisan spin for being a non-partisan centrist

Please point out one single blatant lie that she did not respond to
and one horrible corruption that had any bearing on other people

the entire Republican party is corrupt in obstructing our Country from going forward, and they are getting paid for it by their billionaire funders

People are dying, starving and shackled in poverty because of their lock step obstruction....
Then the obstruction on climate change, tax rates, foreign affairs.. the list is endless

What has Hillary done that can compare to the Republican Corruption?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 10, 2016 - 08:41am PT
Craig, you have to quit with all this factual, supportive-evidence stuff. Don't you know that elections are emotional?
Norton

Social climber
May 10, 2016 - 08:45am PT
When illegal immigrant households receive far more in federal welfare benefits - than "native American households - there is something CLEARLY WRONG with the system!


illegal immigrant adults do not receive "welfare", but are treated in emergency rooms

the children of illegal immigrants however, are eligible for federal food stamps, emergency healthcare and enrollment in public schools

now, if this really bothers you then you should stop voting Republican because they control both spending arms of the Federal government, the House and Senate
and as such have the power to stop pissing away your hard earned tax dollars on those lazy, unemployed, slackers, children

why is it again that you vote Republican?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 09:15am PT
Calling someone crooked, a liar, and horribly corrupt that has not been honestly implicated in such is not an emotional truth. It's propaganda.
People have to stop being such pawns for propaganda if they want to see clearly.

all this propaganda has been fabricated by big money interests and spewed 24/7 for the last 20 years.
They created this now common myth of Hillary being a liar, it's just shows that the Republican Party is compliant with pure evil, since they have no problem lying, cheating, stealing, letting people die or become bankrupt or any other evil just to gain and hold onto power.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 10, 2016 - 09:17am PT
I was being facetious, of course.

I'll be around friends and someone will make a claim about Hillary being dishonest, I'll ask them to be specific and it usually draws blank stares.
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2016 - 09:21am PT
She's told a few whoppers: for example she made a claim that her helicopter was under attack in Bosnia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1582795/Hillary-Clintons-Bosnia-sniper-story-exposed.html

Does she deserve the liar lable more than other people, or more than other politicians? Not that I can tell, certainly not more than trump. Unlike trump, she didn't lie about not knowing who the KKK and David duke are. We've barely addressed his lies here: they are too numerous to track.

She does elicit a visceral dislike among some people which leads them to believe the worst.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 10, 2016 - 09:28am PT
dirt, if, after the 45,312 speeches and interviews she's given over her life in politics, she's been guilty of a few exaggerations and false claims, well, I can live with that. She's human, which is what she said when she apologized for the Bosnia sniper comment.

To even mention it relative to the lies that Trump tells hourly is a level of false equivalence - please don't go there.

I can't fully explain the visceral dislike totally (see Craig's comments for some clarity), but I think the fact that she's a woman plays a role.

I'm not saying that's your problem with her.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 10, 2016 - 09:31am PT
Press freedom? Bye, bye

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-journalist-who-wrote-melania-trump-profile-files-report-after-threats/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=24315594
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2016 - 09:33am PT

May 10, 2016 - 09:28am PT
dirt, if, after the 45,312 speeches and interviews she's given over her life in politics, she's been guilty of a few exaggerations and false claims, well, I can live with that. She's human, which is what she said when she apologized for the Bosnia sniper comment.

Me too.

I've not heard trump apologize about anything, including this:




Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 10, 2016 - 09:34am PT
The most honest candidate is the most corrupt and the biggest lying candidate is the most honest...only in the f*#k upped world of republicans.


http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/fact-checkers-confirm-hillary-clinton-is-more-honest-than-any-of-her-2016-opponents/24196/
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 10, 2016 - 09:39am PT
Trump...god and Klimmer choice...god help us.

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/03/31/ninety-one-percent-donald-trump-false.html
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 09:40am PT
Hillary responded to the story about being under sniper fire in Bosnia as being not true.
So you can't use that against her anymore

It was just a dramatization of her trip there, nothing worse than what Largo does on a daily basis

But the Right Wing evil empire bashed her over the head with it just because they are desperate for anything they can use against her.

Next lie please, bring it on...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 09:47am PT
Hillary Clinton: The vast, right-wing conspiracy" is "even better funded" now


The "vast, right-wing conspiracy" that Hillary Clinton warned about in the 1990's still exists, she confirmed on Wednesday evening -- but now it's out in the open and it's "even better funded," she said.

Clinton was asked about that infamous quote during a televised town hall hosted by CNN in Derry, New Hampshire.

"At this point it's probably not correct to say it's a conspiracy because it's out in the open," Clinton said. "There is no doubt about who the players are, what they're trying to achieve... It's real, and we're going to beat it."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-the-vast-right-wing-conspiracy-is-even-better-funded-now/


Read all about in Dark Money, $100 of millions are given by the rich (evil overlords) as a charity (tax deductible) to fund all the anti-Democratic propaganda lies
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 09:49am PT
it's just shows that the Republican Party is compliant with pure evil, since they have no problem lying, cheating, stealing, letting people die or become bankrupt or any other evil just to gain and hold onto power.

Both parties are this way.

Clinton destroyed evidence (wiped, by her own assessment, at least half of her emails from her server) in the face of a Congressional subpoena, pending FOIA requests, and a pending FBI investigation (that was public knowledge at the point she did so). Destroying evidence in that context is itself a felony. One does not need to be a "legal scholar" (as if even they agree on interpretation) to know this.

If any of us got caught shredding documents as the FBI was moving in, we would be charged with a felony for that act alone.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1519

The question before us now is simply whether or not justice applies "to the top." The DoJ has time and resources to go after S. Carolina regarding trans-bathrooms. So it should have the time/resources to go after Clinton for felonious behavior.
Norton

Social climber
May 10, 2016 - 09:53am PT
yes, Hillary is a liar and a soon to indicted criminal but who cares other than you, Madbolter?

Colorado's Electoral Votes will go to Hillary in November as she will carry your state

and other than a sense of civic duty, your vote for Trump will not matter at all
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 09:59am PT
You don't ever delete e-mails off your server?

So she is supposed to keep every BS e-mail.
What about all the previous SOS, what did they do?

Just because she deleted them you assume that she is hiding something

Should we look through your e-mails to see if your hiding anything?

Clinton destroyed evidence (wiped, by her own assessment, at least half of her emails from her server) in the face of a Congressional subpoena, pending FOIA requests, and a pending FBI investigation
Please provide a Link that proves she did it because of the pending investigations

There was no contact between the FBI and Hillary.
Congressional subpoena??? That was for Benghaziiiiiiiiiiiiii

Truthfully, I can care less what she had on her e-mail server, we know it wasn't classified.

That's like asking Bush to show all his e-mails, not going happen.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 10, 2016 - 10:03am PT
Clinton destroyed evidence

Your imagination. Not based on fact.

Do you work for the FBI? Are you leaking the results of an investigation?

No. You're just making up facts to support your false conclusion.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 10, 2016 - 10:07am PT
here you go Craig http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/pants-fire/

And for corruption she just took millions from Wall Street people that were previously supporting Cruz.

She will perpetuate income inequality and the corruption of our campaign finance system.

Of course Trump is far more dishonest and his policies would be far worse than Clintons for average Americans.

Bernie seemed like the best choice to fight the money corrupting politics and the unequal playing field that is leading to increasing income inequality. But just labeling himself with the word socialist is enough to to scrare off enough voters where he couldn't get through the primary, nevermind the general election.

I'm waiting for that moderate candidate who is honest and will fight against the money corrupting our system, but I'm not holding my breath.

Even though the Clintons are corrupted by money their policies are far better for the average middle class American than any Republican.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 10:10am PT
That Pants on Fire Link was the most pathetic thing I looked at in a long time
3 completely BS lies that amount to nothing
Obama basically threatened to bomb Pakistan
They had to dig hard for that one



Wall Street gives money to every candidate

some do their bidding, some don't

What has Hillary done for Wall Street?
If she hasn't done their bidding, can you call her corrupt?

She says she wants to work on income equality, can't you wait to see what see does before you say she won't do anything about it.

Aren't we supposed to take their word that they will do what they say, and if they don't, then you can say they are corrupted.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 10, 2016 - 10:10am PT
She is guilty...Madbolter, pryo and Klimmer say so.

Done deal.
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2016 - 10:25am PT



And for corruption she just took millions from Wall Street people that were previously supporting Cruz.


That's not corrupt. Kinda dumb? Yes. Tone deaf? Yes. Inappropriate? Possibly, but that is a systemic issue.


Corrupt? Do you have any evidence that she has used her influence to singularly treat Goldman Sachs differently? That term gets thrown around pretty loosely.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 10, 2016 - 10:30am PT
I agree that they aren't significant lies compared to other's lies, but you asked for lies and I provided them.

For Wall Street and big corporations she did little as a senator to help regulate them.

I hope that she will win the white house and create a legacy of doing what's right for the middle class, she could probably get re-elected without the big money donations that would then dry up. But now she is taking many millions from them, and that can't help but influence anyone's thinking.

But then compare her 3 lies to Trump:

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/pants-fire/

26 pants on fire lies! LOL. Of course it's a website and they may have an agenda, but politifact is pretty good IMO, and the lies The Donald tells are well, telling.

Add: I guess corruption implies dishonesty for personal gain, so that may be strong, I guess I would state it as she has taken a mostly hands off approach to regulating big money while taking lots of money from them.
c wilmot

climber
May 10, 2016 - 10:33am PT
every gov employee with a gov email account is literally trained on how to use the gov system and how to send emails while on duty

if H Clinton cant maintain the standards of conduct asked of the lowest level gov employee than is she really a person to trust in a position of power?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 10, 2016 - 10:35am PT
A we are also a society that should not stand for "at will" employment" where employees can be let go for no reason at all. Two side to every coin John. Your "free for all" attitude is a little discouraging to say the least.

If you are employed it is not charity as you are providing a service and you are entitled to pay for those services.

At will employment and payment for services performed differ, so how does your last statement follow from your first, Bob? We hire every other professional on an at will basis for good reason. Imagine if you had to give your doctor, lawyer or accountant "due process" before going to someone else? Worse yet, imagine if poor advice, poor treatment, or offensive personalities did not allow you to change? Yet, that's exactly what we do with teachers. We dismiss them for "cause," meaning serious misconduct, but not for incompetence.

I challenge any defender of teachers' unions to demonstrate what the unions do to promote and reward competence or excellence generally, and give the public fair value for its money. While you're looking, let me offer a few things they do to discourage rewarding excellence and competence:

1. They discourage measurement. Union leaders rail against "high stakes testing" [a euphemism for tests whose results matter], yet offer no alternative for measurement of educational outcomes;

2. They discourage merit pay and at will employment, because those require teachers to please their bosses;

3. They treat teachers as fungible. It doesn't matter how well you teach. All that matters is how long, and what degrees you've attained; and

4. They fight tooth and nail against any and all competition.

Needless to say, any private sector firm whose personnel policies for professionals matched those for teachers would soon be out of business because it would need to compete against firms with intelligent personnel policies.

I think most non-governmental-employee members of the public feel cheated precisely because government employees at all but the very highest levels have protection from at will employment, and therefore can get away with inferior conduct and results. It's no accident that we stereotype the post office and the DMV as models of boorish, slothful employees with indifferent customer service (which is wildly unfair to many of those employees, but that's a different subject).

I find it particularly odd that businesses - whose very existence depends on giving customers what they're willing to pay for - have at will employment as a bedrock employment principle, because experience and competition prove that system yields the best employees and services. Government, in contrast, does not, even though it provides services that we must consider essential. We deserve public servants for whom we have at least the same expectations of performance as those in the private sector.

John
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 10, 2016 - 10:37am PT
SOME of you might find this an interesting discussion. the rest of you can go back to your trenches...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 10, 2016 - 10:44am PT
26 pants on fire lies! LOL. Of course it's a website and they may have an agenda, but politifact is pretty good IMO, and the lies The Donaly tell are well, telling.

Add: I guess corruption implies dishonesty for personal gain, so that may be strong, I guess I would state it as she has taken a mostly hands off approach to regulating big money while taking lots of money from them.

That sums up our dilemma nicely, The Fet. In today's Wall Street Journal, an op-ed commentator suggests conservatives should hope that Hillary wins, because her likely substandard governance will strengthen conservatives, the way four years of Carter produced Reagan. He argues that a Trump victory, in contrast, would destroy conservatism for a generation because of the disaster we would experience in four years of Trump's governance.

All of this keeps bringing me back to the quote I often repeat from Douglas Adams about governance:

"The major problem -- one of the major problems, for there are several -- one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it, or rather who manages to get people to let them do it to them."

"To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To Summarize the summary, anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account to allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem,."

The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe, Chapter 20, first two paragraphs.

John
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 10, 2016 - 10:44am PT
Maybe Colin Powell and others shouldn't be trusted.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/03/07/state-dept-concludes-past-secretaries-of-state/209044
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 10, 2016 - 10:45am PT
And you have got to be kidding. OF course unions are necessary. Unfortunately, for the same reason we need unions, unions themselves are also a major source of problems. Case in point; My old neighbor 15 years ago retired as a SD police sergeant and was sort of bragging to me about his retirement. He was getting more than he earned while in active duty in pension. He said 125K a year and it includes a cost of living increase every year. Guess who is paying for that. I don't begrudge him a decent retirement, but how the hell are we supposed to pay for that? Answer is we couldn't.
c wilmot

climber
May 10, 2016 - 10:50am PT

being they are both lifelong democrats and close family friend I think we will get the same regardless who "wins"

sadly the 1% bought the election.

R.I.P democracy
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2016 - 10:50am PT
He argues that a Trump victory, in contrast, would destroy conservatism for a generation because of the disaster we would experience in four years of Trump's governance.

Maybe. But the republicans will still face the choice of what to do with their angry, nativist base (which I think they now are, given that they managed to nominate Trump) in an increasingly multicultural society. What they need to do to thrive is in conflict with what this base wants. Hoping for favorable circumstances in 2020, even if they happen, simply band aids a growing problem. There aren't going to be easy answers for them.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 10:50am PT
So true JE
The Republicans will blame everything on Hillary even though the Conservatives were to blame for it
and the dupes will just froth in hate like pigs in sh#t

JE, do you agree that the Republican Party is inherently evil?
Why else would they lie and shift blame?

They break every one of the 10 Commandments on a daily basis
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 10, 2016 - 10:50am PT
Teachers pay for their own retirement, I think California only contribute 3-4 percent into the retirement fund, the rest is from the teachers.


Very vague four points you made their JE.


Sunset from my house in Taos, NM last night.

Norton

Social climber
May 10, 2016 - 10:51am PT
I don't begrudge him a decent retirement, but how the hell are we supposed to pay for that? Answer is we couldn't.

I don't begrudge retired police officers either, they put their life on the line for us

as to your question of how we are supposed to pay for his retirement?

well, that is up to your state, they agreed to his pay probably a long time ago so if you don't like it then you could go protest somewhere

is your state balancing its budget every year, if so then they seem to be handling its obligations just fine, has your state bond rating gone done, is that your concern?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 10, 2016 - 10:52am PT
No unions...bring back child labor, no overtime, no paid holidays, no vacation leave, no healthcare and so on.

Right on JE and corporate America.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 10, 2016 - 10:58am PT
Jon Stewart doesn't think Hillary has the courage of her convictions. He should pay better attention.

I understand the dynasty deal that's driving a lot of Bernie's support. Fair enough. But in the end, she's going to be the nominee and the last line of defense against a Trump presidency.
I think Bernie will use his influence to make the Dem platform more progressive. He's earned that. Then, find a younger politician to adopt his movement for a future election. That'll be the proof of his popularity, if his ideas have staying power.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 10, 2016 - 10:58am PT
it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.

A friend of mine has a similar saying "the people who want to be cops, should not be cops".

Speaking of cops and money. There are far more dangerous jobs than cops, they just don't appear as dangerous. Construction. Drivers. Machinery operators. I'd never blame anyone for working the system to their benefit, but private employers have gotten rid of pensions and I think public employers should too. It's our tax dollars.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 10, 2016 - 10:59am PT
skreidc, that's a great interview with Jon Stewart.

Miss that guy.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 10, 2016 - 11:03am PT
Norton. In this case it was the San Diego Police department, and through poor planning and at least some mismanagement our City was in deep financial doo doo. Very poor planning I'd say given how long people are living these days, and that after 25 years of serving and protecting the public these people deserve a break (retirement) that is sustainable and guaranteed. So by default, it also cannot break the city either, which it did. We are out of the woods now, but the backlash is that we are currently loosing Police to other metropolitan areas because of lower pay. The pendulum is swinging too wide.

Edit; I think my main point is that every "institution", public and private, has it's pluses and minuses and is open to abuse.

Edit 2; glad you liked the Stewart interview Apogee
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 11:05am PT
because of the potential that I might be investigated by the FBI at some point in the future

There is a huge difference between "might be investigated" and "we're about to start our investigation."

We ALL "might be investigated" at some point, but we have no particular reason to think we might be. Such was not the case with Clinton, who was already stonewalling Congress and had been told to expect an FBI investigation.

Don't try to make her condition "all generic." She was in trouble, knew she was in trouble, and intentionally destroyed records in the face of that trouble. That is felonious.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 11:07am PT
Robbing the pensions has been another way of destroying the middle class

They were legal contracts that said you will make less now, but promised a specified amount of money that you could use for retirement.

It's criminal negligence that the money isn't there when they are promised it.

And it was a criminal that Reagan signed legislation that allowed companies to sell off their pensions so they could be raped by vulture capitalists like Romney
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 10, 2016 - 11:11am PT
Teachers pay for their own retirement, I think California only contribute 3-4 percent into the retirement fund, the rest is from the teachers.

If that were true, why is STRS (in California) and Calpers tapping into the general fund? Answer: When Gray Davis was governor, elected with enormous help from the CTA (California's main teachers' union), SEIU and AFSCME, the Legislature mandated higher payouts in those pensions, and the governor signed that legislation, as a quid pro quo for the public employee unions' support. That's the inherent conflict of interest to which I referred much earlier.

Incidentally, laws restricting child labor came about long before labor unions had any major influence. During the so-called Progressive Era at the turn of the 20th Century, antitrust laws suppressed unions and, particularly, strikes, but major worker protections were enacted then. Similarly, labor innovations such as the 40-hour week, 8-hour day, paid vacations, etc., also originated well before the union movement had much traction. The history of the employment practices of Henry Ford (who hated unions) provides evidence of why private employers originated these practices long before unions had any ability to organize their workers.

Finally, I note that Bob's chart showing the correlation between usion membership and share of middle class income reveals at least two issues. First, definition of middle class, and then comparing share of income rather than amount of income. Union supporters tend to view the economy as a zero-sum game. This may reflect budgetary realities in government, but the economy as a whole does not work that way. If you want to see who really needs an advocate, consider the returns to savings, adjusted for inflation, in the last seven years.

John
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 10, 2016 - 11:11am PT
Boys, boys, boys....let's keep this thread on topic....

This is about The Donald.

The hopeful Narcissist In Charge would appreciate that.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 10, 2016 - 11:19am PT
No unions...bring back child labor, no overtime, no paid holidays, no vacation leave, no healthcare and so on.

Right on JE and corporate America.



"live better work UNION"..one of the most popular bumper stickers for union buffs..

union's and their mentalities are the BIG problem..

they work 8hr day but it's really a 5hr day..
they go home and brag that they worked hard..


Starbucks barista are union workers too.. what a joke..
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 10, 2016 - 11:36am PT
They were legal contracts that said you will make less now, but promised a specified amount of money that you could use for retirement.

Oh you mean, like Social Security?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 11:42am PT
There is no legal distinction whatsoever.

There is all the distinction in the world.

Double-stampy, no erasey.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 11:43am PT
Mr. Snark
When has SS missed a payment?

I know the Conservatives want to steal from the fund,

and hand it over to the vultures on wall street,
is that your recommendation too
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 10, 2016 - 11:45am PT
union's and their mentalities are the BIG problem..

I disagree. The concept of a Union, or rather a Worker's Guild is an excellent, awesome, accelerant to raw capitalism. The sight of a specialized, self-governing, talented labor pool is quite impressive.

Worker's guilds are places that prospective employers can go to get specific talent they need and the guild is only as strong as its members, their apprentice programs, work ethic and self policing members allow it to be.

A highly skilled and available labor pool is critical.

Where unions fall down is when employers are required by law to hire from that specific union or labor pool. As a result, there is no incentive for the union members to police the deadbeats, improve the training, or for that matter even work hard. Then we get over-priced, under-trained, and lazy employees because they know they are the only game in town.

It is the antithesis of a free market and it's a huge contributing factor in the large gaps of our economy and labor needs.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 10, 2016 - 11:51am PT
Escopeta .... +1
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 10, 2016 - 11:57am PT
Robbing the pensions has been another way of destroying the middle class

They were legal contracts that said you will make less now, but promised a specified amount of money that you could use for retirement.

Craig, I agree with you on this. Where I disagree is in using political power to promise pensions we can't afford. Norton asks if we are paying our bills now. The honest answer is already "no," because we've used long-term borrowing to finance current expenses, but the question he asks doesn't fully address the issue.

A pension acts as a sort of "buy now, pay later" for governments. It's a built-in form of deficit spending, because we are borrowing from our employees. When we promise to pay them later, then break that promise, it has all the same moral implications of breaking a promise to pay to anyone else, but I find it even more harmful, because retirees lack the ability to protect themselves when their pensions don't pay.

As the numbers of former employees drawing pensions increases with the retirement of the Baby Boomers, Norton, the portion of California's budget spent paying pensions -- really debt service -- increases, leaving less to pay for current services. The unions obtained these pensions knowing full well what they implied for the taxpayers.

In a private company, management has sufficient separation from the unions to constitute an independent force. In the case of California, however, union-elected and union-dependent Democrats constituted the "management," and sold the rest of us out so that their union benefactors could loot the treasury. It may not have risen to the level of Tammany Hall and the Tweed Ring, but only because the spoils were spread around to more people. The taxpayers got robbed in both instances.

John
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
John
You sound so reasoned and rational

and then add
In the case of California, however, union-elected and union-dependent Democrats constituted the "management," and sold the rest of us out so that their union benefactors could loot the treasury.

which is pure hyperbolic partisan spin

every post goes sour at some point!!
If it was true, like the way I add Hyperbole, then it would be a different story

How am I to take anything you post seriously?

I surely don't believe the above quote, should I ask for a link to show us the truth? or just assume it's rubbish
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 10, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
If it was true, like the way I add Hyperbole, then it would be a different story

How am I to take anything you post seriously?

I surely don't believe the above quote, should I ask for a link to show us the truth? or just assume it's rubbish

What? I can't have fun, too?

But, since you ask, here's a small sampling:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0301-disalvo-public-unions-20150301-story.html

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/2499035-181/pension-deal-reflects-democratic-union?ref=related

http://www.capoliticalreview.com/tag/calpers/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billfrezza/2014/05/16/government-employee-unions-tee-up-californias-bankruptcy/#1d5524a86e98

In those immortal words of Dudley Do-Right, "{I]t's in the newspaper, so it must be true." I offer you newspapers, magazines and the internet, so it really must be true.

I acknowledge that local Democrats, particularly mayors, are waking up to the stranglehold the improvident public pension deals have put on government, but the unions and their allies in state government still do everything they can to avoid having pensions the public can afford.

John
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 10, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
Trump is a flaming dickhead.
John M

climber
May 10, 2016 - 12:45pm PT
I find it particularly odd that businesses - whose very existence depends on giving customers what they're willing to pay for - have at will employment

The difference is that with businesses there are multiple businesses/lawyers/doctors to choose from. With education you pretty much only have the public education system. So you train to become a public education system teacher and if you don't have a union to fight that system, then you are at the mercy of that system. Or you have to change careers as there aren't that many options outside of it.

of course I'm sure that you will argue to do away with that public education system.. Would your children who teach support that? could they find a job in private education with similar pay/benefits? Or have they even looked.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 10, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
John, the reason teachers have such few choices with public school systems remains bound up in teacher tenure and the difficulty in removing them. If individual principals had more freedom to fire, (and were subject to easier termination of employment as well) teachers would have far more options for employment, even within the same district. Our employment system for public employees generally, and for teachers in particular, fails to promote or reward excellence.

John
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 10, 2016 - 12:52pm PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]


[Click to View YouTube Video]

patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 10, 2016 - 12:53pm PT
Could we have a roll call of who is voting for Trump?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 01:02pm PT
In as few sentences as possible, care to draw that legal distinction?

I already did. But here's some help....

We are all "potentially under investigation" qua human beings in the USA. We (most of us) have no reason to think that that logical possibility will convert to an actually-pending event.

By contrast, Clinton was already stonewalling Congressional requests and had been informed that the FBI was about to begin an investigation.

That knowledge of a genuine and proximate pending investigation bears no resemblance to the mere logical possibility we all face at all times. And the cited statute references this very knowledge-based distinction.

Clinton knew at the time (having deleted, by her own admission, at least half of the emails and then wiped the server) that she was facing FBI scrutiny in a personal and particular way. So, she "shredded documents" in the face of a an actually-pending (not merely logically possible) FBI investigation, while our everyday "shredding" is not in the face of an actually-pending FBI investigation.

Finally, you can't effectively shred documents with the FBI standing there present. So, all "destruction of records" is logically necessarily prior to the FBI standing at your doorstep. The statute is written to make it a crime to know about a pending investigation and have that be your trigger to start shredding, which is exactly what Clinton did.

You an I do our "shredding" without any "trigger" of the sort Clinton had.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 10, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
No doubt about it. She's a spy. Knowingly selling her quinoa salad recipe to the Russians.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 10, 2016 - 01:14pm PT
union's and their mentalities are the BIG problem..

I disagree. The concept of a Union, or rather a Worker's Guild is an excellent, awesome, accelerant to raw capitalism. The sight of a specialized, self-governing, talented labor pool is quite impressive.

Worker's guilds are places that prospective employers can go to get specific talent they need and the guild is only as strong as its members, their apprentice programs, work ethic and self policing members allow it to be.

A highly skilled and available labor pool is critical.

Where unions fall down is when employers are required by law to hire from that specific union or labor pool. As a result, there is no incentive for the union members to police the deadbeats, improve the training, or for that matter even work hard. Then we get over-priced, under-trained, and lazy employees because they know they are the only game in town.

It is the antithesis of a free market and it's a huge contributing factor in the large gaps of our economy and labor needs.

Hmmm, I find myself mostly agreeing with these points EscoPETA made. And I'm OK with that.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 10, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
"Where unions fall down is when employers are required by law to hire from that specific union or labor pool."

Gotta say, I agree with that one. The sense of entitlement, and lack of motivation to do good work can be pretty appalling amongst too many union workers.

There needs to be a mechanism to fire those employees that need to be fired (under appropriate circumstances), and not have them hide behind unions. It's good for the company, it's good for the customer, it's good for the employee.

skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 10, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
Am I going to vote for Trump? I don't know. I haven't put a single round into my 357, spun the cylinder, and pulled the trigger yet.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 10, 2016 - 01:18pm PT
they work 8hr day but it's really a 5hr day..
they go home and brag that they worked hard..

Funny, my climbing partner spent the winter outside at our airport (PDX) pumping out large junction pullboxes and pulling mile+ length fiber optic cable runs under the runways and between hangers and the terminal in a big push. Brutal, cold and and wet work 12 hours a day.

What a slacker putz...
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 10, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
Strangely, I find myself missing Walt Kelly and his artwork. I bet he could do wonders with Trump.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
No doubt about it. She's a spy.

Not what I was saying. She's a criminal, but I have no reason to think she's a spy.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 10, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
^^^^seriously, Madbolter has been very consistent on this topic. (DMT can be very sarcastic at times tho...)
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
She's a criminal.

Hyperbolic BS

Don't ever bother taking Mad serious, cause he isn't a serious poster,
he consistently lies about things to make his biased points

he can't even bother to look into his claims of crimes that Hillary has supposedly committed
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 10, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
I just mean he has consistently called her a criminal.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 10, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
A mere criminal as opposed to the passel of pardoned and unindicted traitors we've had run the government for the last three republican presidencies - good to go!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
Oh maddy, you can't see past your own logic.

Oh dingleberry, neither can you.

But anyway, you, me, Hillary Clinton can delete all the emails we choose, this side of being served a subpoena.

What you're "good with" is irrelevant to the law, so you don't get to project your opinions onto the actual facts of her behaviors and the clear text of the statute.

"We're going to investigate you next year so don't delete any emails till we tell you its ok, ok?"

Uh, actually, that's precisely the point. Once you know that you are in that very situation, it becomes a felony for you to proceed with your shredding. If you don't like that fact, then work to get the law changed. Meanwhile, being told to not delete records is both express and implied by the statute, and "lessor mortals" would already be in cuffs over what she has already done with her shredding.

Laughable.

What's truly laughable (in a Greco/Roman tragedy sort of way) is that the law doesn't seem to apply to her, nor does the left think it should have to.

Trump's a horrible person and a buffoon. But Clinton is a criminal, whether or not it turns out that she's above the law. Both parties have handed us sh|t on a shingle in this election cycle. Bernie is the left's backstop position in case Clinton actually is indicted (unlikely).
Norton

Social climber
May 10, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
I just mean he has consistently called her a criminal.

yes he has been a strong anti Hillary presence hasn't he?

but a criminal is someone convicted of a crime

therefore, Madbolter is a liar, is he not?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 10, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
"A mere criminal as opposed to the passel of pardoned and unindicted traitors we've had run the government for the last three republican presidencies -"


...and the narcissistic as#@&%e that is going to represent their Party this year...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 10, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
"Trump's a horrible person and a buffoon. But Clinton is a criminal, whether or not it turns out that she's above the law."


So which one are you going to vote for, mb?

Or are you going to stay home on election day?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 01:33pm PT
He's a Pants on Fire LIAR
John M

climber
May 10, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
JohnE.. I do agree that we need to be able to fire teachers and principles. Easier is subjective. But there should be a better/easier process. Which is why I believe a state fund for schools to apply to would be a good idea. Once the unions have had to fight some expensive battles, and can see that the state will not give up, then they will have to institute some of their own guidelines for who they will and will not protect. Right now as it is, local school districts have to go up against a statewide union, and that is what is out of balance.

I guess my problem with you is that you fail to see that the school system is a form of power and a monopoly, and if teachers have nothing to protect them, such as a union, then they will be abused and will have to fall on their own resources to fight that abuse. Your children have enjoyed protections that they don't seem to even be aware of. If your child got a bad review from one local school principal, do you really believe that they could just up and go to a different school in that same district and get a job? My guess is that would be very unlikely, making that one principle have enormous power over your child. Without a union to stand up for them, then its not that hard to see the abuses possible.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 10, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
Waiting for mb's response is kinda like one of those text bubbles with the rolling dots...you see it, know it's coming, but in mb's case, it takes fooorrr-eeeevvvveerrr to show up.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 10, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
Serious question tho. When did Hillary "earn" this despicable character award from a good portion of our population? What events earned this reputation, which has only been "strengthened" by Bengazi! and the email thingy? I personally cannot think back to "that" moment in time. Was there a moment? It seems like it was either a slowly building thing, or during the Clinton years.

I think it's the latter, but gossip from the White House press corps during the Clinton (about to be the first Clinton?) administration made her sound like a real jerk. She also has an unfortunate ability to say memorably alienating things, such as "I'm not staying at home baking cookies," which almost every stay-at-home mother found insulting, or "What difference does it make now?" when asked why she gave the public false information about the nature of the Benghazi attack, or her claim to be virtually penniless after leaving the White House.

The "lost" Rose Law Firm billing records ending up in her White House office, and the "email protocol doesn't apply to me" attitude she continues to exhibit, will have no more effect on her supporters than Trump's misstatements (to be charitable), boorish behavior, and lack of coherant or intelligent policy have on Trump supporters. Those who don't support her already, however, won't like any of that.

When you couple all this with her seeming desire to be on the winning side, and failure to acknowledge any shortcomings, it paints a rather unflattering picture. She was a strong supporter of going to war in Iraq. Her changing her story now doesn't go over well with those not already inclined to support her. The less-than-subtle message that women who fail to vote for her are disloyal, and her questionable explanations for her behavior ("every Secretary of State did it" when Colin Powell had 12 messages total, and she had over 2,000 that were classified) all help lend the feeling that she makes up her own rules for her. Even SNL has been moved to spoof her attitude as "It's my turn!"

All of this works together to cause people to have a negative attitude toward her. Fortunately for her, the Republicans managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by going for someone with way more negative traits as their nominee. That's why so many of us long-term Republicans don't trust Trump. His candidacy seems designed to elect Hillary.

John
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
criminal is someone convicted of a crime

therefore, Madbolter is a liar, is he not?

When OJ got away with killing two people, was he any less of a criminal just because of jury nullification?

Getting away with it doesn't mean you didn't commit criminal acts.

Am I really a "liar" to note the obvious fact?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 10, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
"That's why so many of us long-term Republicans don't trust Trump. His candidacy seems designed to elect Hillary."

You just can't blame it on republicans and their dysfunctional system.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
failure to acknowledge any shortcomings

All good points, John, except that I don't think this one is quite right.

Her MO instead is to quickly and dismissively claim "mistake" and think that makes it all good.

So, she "acknowledges" her "mistakes" in as dismissive a fashion as possible, and those of us that actually pay attention to things like the layers of illegality of her private email server have a big problem with her dismissing it all as "a mistake."
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
I just read the subpoena from 2015 and her response, while once again I think her instinct to clam up probably does not serve her well here, it is a huge stretch to say deleting the emails constitute a criminal act. She stated the deleted emails were spam/personal communications, which is certainly plausible, and as such were not covered by the subpoena. Obviously, this is a self serving, cya statement to explain why she might have deleted something incriminating, but it is obvious, too, why she should resist whatever broad Clinton-bashing fishing expedition that committee undertakes. Why make it easy for them? Let's not forget, the chief GOP Hillary investigators are a bunch of rotting d#@&%ebags.

Deleting the server also looks suspicious, but as the FBI has shown, info on it is recoverable. Clintons team must have known this.

Also, the subpoena says that it's the committees "preference" to receive electronic documents. Unless I missed something, It doesn't say the documents (i.e., emails) have to provided in electronic format. It's a loophole, but providing hard copies instead of electronic documents is not a violation. Yes, it allows for selective editing by Clinton. But, again, why do anything more than the bare minimum to comply with these pukes' request?

Recent leaked FBI info suggest she will not be prosecuted. Perhaps it's because they think she did something but can't quite connect the dots, perhaps someone isn't 100% credible, or perhaps they have nothing. We might never know.

The subpoena can be found here.

http://benghazi.house.gov/sites/republicans.benghazi.house.gov/files/Kendall.Clinton%20Subpoena%20-%202015.03.04.pdf
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
She was a strong supporter of going to war in Iraq.

WRONG

Pants on Fire WRONG

What false information did she give on Benghazi
It was the video after all, that was proven to be true

but if you would make a big deal about it, What difference does it make if it was the video or not, they caught the perpetrators and put them in jail, like any other criminal

I don't trust YOUR opinions
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 02:01pm PT
She stated the deleted emails were spam/personal communications, which is certainly plausible, and as such were not covered by the subpoena.

Problem with that theory is that the second she mingled personal and private emails on the same server, she legally gave up the distinction between public and private records.

She instead had her "staff" write and deploy a highly superficial search algorithm to make that distinction (which she no longer had the right to do) and auto-delete emails that didn't contain about 100 "trigger words."

Since that time, many emails in and out of her server recorded on other systems have surfaced that were deleted by her algorithm for not containing the "trigger words," yet that were about the "trigger subjects" anyway. This means that we simply can't know how many of the deleted (and the wiped) emails really were public record by any accounting.

She gave up the unilateral right to distinguish when she melded everything together. And the statute requires her to maintain, safeguard, and release (as required by law) all State Department records, which we now know for certain her algorithm could not in principle (and didn't in practice) get done.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 10, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
Hey all. Thank you, including John E., on the responses to my question which I moved to the Ready for Hillary thread. Should have put it there in the first place.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 10, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
I guess my problem with you is that you fail to see that the school system is a form of power and a monopoly, and if teachers have nothing to protect them, such as a union, then they will be abused and will have to fall on their own resources to fight that abuse

I'm painfully aware of that monopoly, as are my daughter and son-in-law. We should ask why the teachers' unions fight so hard to maintain that monopoly.

John
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 10, 2016 - 02:14pm PT
I disagree. The concept of a Union, or rather a Worker's Guild is an excellent, awesome, accelerant to raw capitalism. The sight of a specialized, self-governing, talented labor pool is quite impressive.

Worker's guilds are places that prospective employers can go to get specific talent they need and the guild is only as strong as its members, their apprentice programs, work ethic and self policing members allow it to be.

A highly skilled and available labor pool is critical.

Where unions fall down is when employers are required by law to hire from that specific union or labor pool. As a result, there is no incentive for the union members to police the deadbeats, improve the training, or for that matter even work hard. Then we get over-priced, under-trained, and lazy employees because they know they are the only game in town.

It is the antithesis of a free market and it's a huge contributing factor in the large gaps of our economy and labor needs.

thanks Escopeta! Goblues..
John M

climber
May 10, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
If you are aware, then I just can't see how you can support doing away with the union.. or saying that there is no need for them. unless you also want to defund public schools and go to a private school system. Were you for the voucher system?

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 10, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
mb, the subpoena was not for all emails, but only those that related to four topics, all involving Libya and Benghazi. If an email were truly spam, it would be amusing to see what she got, but it would be unresponsive to the subpoena.

WRONG

Pants on Fire WRONG

What false information did she give on Benghazi
It was the video after all, that was proven to be true

but if you would make a big deal about it, What difference does it make if it was the video or not, they caught the perpetrators and put them in jail, like any other criminal

I don't trust YOUR opinions

Oh. I guess we never should have asked why Chelsea and the Egyptians got one story, and the American people - including the families of the victims - got a different one. Our bad. Those victims' families are all liars anyway, since they contradict Hillarys story. Since they caught the perps (?) Congress and the American people had no business asking why we were treated like mushrooms.

How hard would it have been to say that national security reasons preventing disclosing the terrorist connection at that time, assuming that was true? In fact, if they knew the attack was one from terrorists, and did not want to disclose that, why not just say we don't know? Instead we get this "fog of war" nonsense that does not explain the rather systematic way in which the government fed different information to different groups. I would have preferred to do what Bullwinkle the Moose did in a cartoon, when he was called to Washington:

Press: "Why are you here?"

Bullwinkle: "I can't say."

Press: "Where are you going?"

Bullwinkle: "I can't say."

Press: "Who told you to come?"

Bullwinkle: "I can't say."

Press: "Why can't you say?"

Bullwinkle: "Because I don't know."

John

John M

climber
May 10, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
the "fog of war" is basically saying.." we did not know".. why can't you accept that? You sound pissy when you go after that. And I am a person who doesn't really like Hillary.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 02:52pm PT
What a crock of sh#t John

she told the story that she heard from investigators
the story changed as new info was revealed

so what

She wasn't there to know exactly what happened

how do you get your info, what if it changes, does that make you a liar for first believing one thing and then believing the new info


Read it and weep

Initially, top U.S. officials and the media reported that the Benghazi attack was a spontaneous protest triggered by an anti-Muslim video, Innocence of Muslims.[23] Subsequent investigations determined that there was no such protest and that the attacks were premeditated.[24] Captured suspect Ahmed Abu Khattala stated that the assault was indeed in retaliation for the video Innocence of Muslims.[25]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 10, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
she told the story that she heard from investigators
the story changed as new info was revealed

so what

The problem is that she told others the truth before she told the American people a falsehood. I have yet to hear a plausible reason for that.

John
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2016 - 02:56pm PT
Mb, I always thought that the optics of operating a private server looked bad. However, as pointed out above she is not the first Secretary of State to use one, yet she is the only one receiving criticism.

If you ever wonder why Clinton is reluctant to turn over anything she doesn't have to, remember that this entire "scandal" over the emails emerged from a dead end Benghazi investigation, much like how Bill Clinton's perjury impeachment proceeding involving Monica lewinsky had started a few years earlier with an investigation into the whitewater deal: that investigation was going nowhere, too.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 10, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
"The problem is that she told others the truth before she told the American people a falsehood." -je

That is such bullsh#t.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
The problem IS THAT the CIA TOLD her what to say
They told everyone to tell their official story, that's how National security works
that's the plausible reason, don't like it, too bad

was she supposed to disobey orders??

such a pathetic line of reasoning you're running with

which was the truth and which one was the lie John?
I think you still got it backwards

are you blaming the deaths of those there on HER????
why not blame the terrorists, like a normal person.
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
Back to trump bashing.

Apparently, one of his California delegates has openly advocated deporting anyone with "negro blood."

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/10/11652822/donald-trump-delegate-white-nationalist

Don't they know how to google these idiots? Or are the Trump people trying to gently embrace them?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 03:26pm PT

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 10, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
lol!
zBrown

Ice climber
May 10, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
Lest you all forget.

Heidi told the campaign’s “National Prayer Team” during a conference call, “God does not work in four-year segments.”
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
However, as pointed out above she is not the first Secretary of State to use one, yet she is the only one receiving criticism.

Please name others.

Oh, if you're thinking Powell, he had a private account but not server. I'd have to look it up, but it was on one of the big providers, Yahoo, Gmail, or something like that.

There is a huge, huge difference! For one thing, Powell could not in principle wipe his past emails. As we all know, the providers are themselves subject to subpoena, so the FBI could have in principle gotten ALL of the emails, including the deleted ones.

No, Clinton knew this, and she was determined to not only delete but wipe, and you need your own server to have that level of control.

This is beyond "looks bad," and it's why this thing is not going away.

This is her very, very clearly assuming absolute control over the information-flow, which is the very thing the law disallows. No other Sec-State did what she's done. It's not a "quantitative" difference; it's a qualitative difference. That's the answer to your question of why it's being investigated and viewed by tens of millions (including me) as substantively different from what the likes of Powell did.

Oh, and BTW, Powell did catch a lot of flak for what he did, which makes it all the more intentional (and amazing) that Clinton far-and-away upped the ante with her behavior.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 10, 2016 - 03:57pm PT
Religion continues to be a barrier...

Locker, welcome to the side of reason.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 10, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/donald-trump-white-nationalist-afp-delegate-california
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 10, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
Religion; used and abused. A comment on Jeremiah Johnson's Trump Prophesy from https://avemariaradio.net/prophecy-donald-trump-shall-become-the-trumpet/

A Note from Al:

I remember a major Pentecostal prophet in 1992 delivering a prophecy rebuking Christians who were opposing Bill Clinton. This prophecy caused a rift among Christians. He claimed that Clinton was God’s man for major change in this country including abolishing abortion. Again, this 1992 prophet was highly respected. He wasn’t some local aspirant who might get a word from God that sounded like this: “Thus says the Lord, I am the Alfalfa and the Omega.” This Jeremiah Johnson is also respected. But who will hold him responsible for invoking God falsely to justify his political miscalculations?

Catholics may not exercise the principle of church discipline or excommunication as often as they should. But at least, in principle, it could be done. In this case, the prophet would simply go off and start another ministry.

Read this prophecy and thank God for apostolic authority in the Catholic Church that can, in principle, say Nay to this “prophet.”

-Al Kresta
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 10, 2016 - 05:05pm PT
Tell your prophet that if Trump gets elected, he'll only serve 1260 days of his term. So apparently the antichrist works in 3.5 year segments.

the great tribulation begins 3.5 years after the Antichrist "makes a covenant with the many" (Daniel 9:27), in the middle of "Daniel's 70th week." The 70th week is a reference to Daniel 9:24, where each day of the week corresponds to a year (for a total of seven years). After the first 3.5 years, the Antichrist will make himself known with the abomination that causes desolation, and he will reign for 3.5 years (42 months or 1260 days). The latter half of the 3.5 years is characterized by the Antichrist deceiving the world and persecuting the church.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prewrath
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 05:13pm PT
Now that Trump won the primary, he has to pay back the loans he took from himself to fund his race.

So he's looking for corruption/bribe money from big money donors to help him WIN!!

Donald Trump is now accepting the kind of big-money donations he thinks corrupts politicians

by Jeff Stein on May 9, 2016,

Donald Trump, who has spent months decrying politicians who take big money for their campaigns, now says he will accept money from big-dollar donors for the general election.

Trump's team announced last week that he will create a fundraising apparatus that will take big checks from the wealthiest donors to fund a campaign that could cost upward of $1 billion, according to Bloomberg.

"He's done a complete 180," says Josh Stewart, a spokesperson for the Sunlight Foundation, which tracks money in politics. "A central part of Trump's campaign for the nomination was that he was not bought and paid for and would self-fund his campaign. Now, he's going back on that."

In other words, Trump has now become the very kind of candidate he's said he spent decades buying off.

Donald Trump wasn't completely self-funding his campaign, but it was pretty close

Trump's theory of money in politics has always been clear: Wealthy donors pour cash into campaigns, and politicians cut them special deals in exchange once elected.

Since declaring his candidacy, Trump has attacked politicians accepting campaign donations as being bought off by special interests. This message has clearly resonated with primary voters, who have repeatedly listed Trump's financial independence as central to his appeal.

"Their lobbyists, their special interests and their donors will start calling President Bush, President Clinton," Trump has said. "And they’ll say: ‘You have to do it. They gave you a million dollars to your campaign.'"

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11640038/donald-trump-donations-big-money
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
Here's your man, Klimmer, mocking a person's disability:


So spare us your sanctimonious babble.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
Funny
If you Google Trump criminal
it turns out that he has 100s of criminal implications

associated with the mob
hiring illegal aliens
illegal real estate deals
under investigation for Trump University
bribing Ben Carson
lying to investors

100s instances of criminal activity has been documented as FACT

so the fool appears to be the person that believes Trump BS rather than facts

What now Klimmer
just wave your hands and say Hillary is far worse?
That's just another lie you accept w/o question
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 10, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
When hasn't he been?

For as long as we've known him here.

He's pure fantasy.
Beginning with religion/theism.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Are you F-ing Kidding me!!!!

You don't accept any of the stuff that pops up on Google when you type in Trump criminal, are you saying it's all lies!!!

all I can say is, read this and weep, or deny like a fool


Fact Checkers Prove That 91% of the Things Donald Trump Says Are False

By Sarah Jones on Thu, Mar 31st, 2016 at 12:05 pm

Donald Trump, the Republican front-runner, is at the bottom of the Politifact list with a sad 9% of true or mostly true statements. Just 9% of the things Donald Trump says are mostly related to the truth.

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/03/31/ninety-one-percent-donald-trump-false.html


I'm calling you out. Prove the Bovine Dung you keep throwing.
Klimm

Please let me know which fact you consider Bovine dung, so I can respond to it specifically
Norton

Social climber
May 10, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
you damn right Trump openly mocked a well know disabled reporter

here is the video, you asked for it


[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
May 10, 2016 - 06:19pm PT

Trump draws scornful rebuke for mocking reporter with disability


from Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/11/25/trump-blasted-by-new-york-times-after-mocking-reporter-with-disability/
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2016 - 06:19pm PT
Klimmer:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/11/25/trump-blasted-by-new-york-times-after-mocking-reporter-with-disability/

I googled "trump disabled reporter" and dozens of similar stories popped up . It happened around thanksgiving, and when I watched him do it I couldn't believe it.

Edit: since Norton posted the Washington post story, I'll post a different source:


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34930042
zBrown

Ice climber
May 10, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
“God does not work in four-year segments.”...


Once Trump gets out of graduate school, presumably he'll no longer mock people with a disability, unless of course the dude is a white racist neo nazi farmer in which case he gets a pass, even if his deficit is being brain dead at birth.

"The birth of a deformed nation, eh? White Power."
-George(s) (Lincoln Rockwell and Wallace)




Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
Are you sure that those "videos" are not just more bovine dung and just fabricated by the vast left wing conspiracy network that's funded by billionaire donors?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 10, 2016 - 06:49pm PT
I told y'all he is a chameleon.

Trump Campaign Picks Nazi as Delegate, Drops Him After Backlash


Johnson, who leads the neo-Nazi American Freedom Party, was selected as a delegate for California on Donald Trump's slate, Mother Jones reported Tuesday, despite openly espousing extremist, white supremacist politics in his application to become a delegate.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Trump-Campaign-Picks-Nazi-as-Delegate-Drops-Him-After-Backlash-20160510-0049.htmlegate, Drops Him After Backlash**
kattz

climber
May 10, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
Trump is a rapist!!

hide yo kids, hide yo wife!

Huffington post said so!
Larry Nelson

Social climber
May 10, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
JEleazarian posted

It's no accident that we stereotype the post office and the DMV as models of boorish, slothful employees with indifferent customer service (which is wildly unfair to many of those employees, but that's a different subject).

It is unfair to the many great employees, but the perception is still there.
Here is a diagram that sums up how incentives, or lack of incentives, drive spending behavior.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
You got that right

His ex-wife claimed that Donald brutally raped her UNDER OATH in a court deposition

Donald Trump's Ex-Wife Accused Him of Brutally Raping Her


gawker.com/the-time-donald-trumps-ex-wife-accused-him-of-brutally-17211...

Jul 30, 2015 - During Donald Trump's 1992 divorce proceedings, his wife provided a ... Donald Trump's Lawyer Is a Marital Rape Truther Donald Trump's ...


But he is above the law, so was acquitted.
There is a story about him raping a 13 year old, but wasn't sure it was legit.

what other of the 100s of crimes that has he committed should we discuss?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 10, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
And hide your husbands too cuz' he's rapin' everybody up in here.
kattz

climber
May 10, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
I bet the crowd who's bothered by his "mocking of disabled guy" are the JE SUIS CHARLIE ...hahaha....where political correctness is a one way street I guess
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
NOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 10, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
So you think a POTUS should have a history of such comments and gestures, eh, kattz?
kattz

climber
May 10, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
So many pictures mocking Trump himself are made....by the same ones who pout at him supposedly mocking some guy who crossed the line and is way out there with his lies...so I guess it's a rough world out there and his disability isn't going to be a magic blanket...it works both ways

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
Should have we just bowed down to Hitler and not challenge him?

Same thing kattz

it works both ways alright, but one way is top down,
the other is bottom up

Bully vs. victims of the bully

The bully needs to be mocked and muzzled
for the good of the many
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 10, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
Oh yeah making fun of a guy for a terrible haircut and a spray tan is exactly the same as making fun of someone with a serious disability. SMH.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 07:48pm PT
what other of the 100s of crimes that has he committed should we discuss?

What? They're all non-crimes, since by your "lights" he's not been convicted of anything.

Can't have it both ways. If ya like smoking guns, both he and Clinton have 'em in spades. If ya don't like smoking guns, then be consistent and quit bagging on Trump for non-crimes.

If we're going with smoking guns, then Clinton's directly affect her in-office credibility and integrity. Trump's don't, as he's never been in office.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 10, 2016 - 07:49pm PT
Jesus too slow started to right this and stopped had a few errands come back and 100 post behind the times.

Anyway

“Clinton destroyed evidence (wiped, by her own assessment, at least half of her emails from her server) in the face of a Congressional subpoena, pending FOIA requests, and a pending FBI investigation (that was public knowledge at the point she did so). Destroying evidence in that context is itself a felony. One does not need to be a "legal scholar" (as if even they agree on interpretation) to know this.”

I like that one. Tell who has not: Nixon except for a few tapes, His fixation on the left especially anyone against the Viet Nam war were targets; all police, special operation groups spying and the like shredded tons. Reagan and his buddy Meese [Meese had his own lists of people spied on] Ronny famous “Iran/Contra” about 7 others with Latin Countries and CIA documents. Carter the one I know of is at the embassy when it was being overrun and those were not shredded very good since the new youth guards pieced back together. * note now everything the government shreds is then fired to ashes and placed in cement. * lessons learned.

Bush one and two, Haliburton Oil disaster as well in in Iran/Iraq and Libya during and current wars.

Corruption that is why elected people get in office, the higher you go, the higher the rewards. Stealing, killing, blowing up places so we can get what resources not you or me but people like Meese in Reagan’s term. He asked Israel in returns for favors of course not to blow up a pipe line that he had interests in the area we are now fighting in. President Cheney?
Need I go on…………… oil in the Black Sea.

Happens with every election: Promises, dreams, everything going to get better, better health…..

As for Benghazi it happens? Ambassador Stevens was told not to go and knew about the warnings on his life, Red Cross and USAID left well before since they knew something was about to happen. rocket-propelled grenade and heavier weapons were used to breach the wall mostly likely the ones we were trying to buy back/smuggle from Libya to anti-Assad rebels in Syria that was the reason plus a few other for the CIA being there and a few merc contractors. The rocket that used could have used to breach the wall might have been ours? Was evidence shredded?

I remember well during the Tet Offense we were told to stand down and not fire. If we needed to fire we were told to first ask for the order to our Captain first, he then radios it back to his next commander, then that commander passes info to his next superior and then all of it gets sent to the US. There they discuss it and if it sounds like a yes they would tele back saying Ok! That order goes to #4, #4 says to #3, #3 says to #2 and then we finally can fire. Real smart right. Well, we said screw that since a unit from another company was being overrun and needed help then not waiting 3 hours later for some shithead politician back in the states. We intentionally played with our radio by hitting the button on the mike as if it was cutting off and half to three quarters of the conversation was not heard or partly heard. like We saved some but not all of them. The next day we had some really nice guys that were screaming at us wanted to look at the radio since we said must have had a bad connection or you guys had problems. I can’t recall what happened but they did not get the chance to see it. They went back still screaming and yelling, guess we were put on a sh#t list. We were.

Happens all the time, raid or the killing of Osama bin Laden guys had the same issues, politicians. I can recall when a marine fired on a building when he was firing at someone running with a weapon of course and a few rounds went through the door and killed a woman and a couple kids or?. It was all over the news, radio commentators right and left saying how could this of happened and the shame this marine was put under. Sacramento had a radio talk show you could call in; they were more to the right but a hair close to the middle but sometimes good to listen to once in a while just so happened they were talking about it and I called in with a similar experience when I was in Nam. Before they put it on or would broadcast it on the air you told the story first, they get a lot of crank calls and the such. Sure enough they broadcasted my story, asked questions, how I felt then and about the marine. Pretty much what I said came to the real point, they sent me a nice letter saying that it changed both of their views on the subject. it wasn’t like the rightwing radio shows today that blast sh#t now 24 hours 7 days a week.

Just under an hour goes by the time Defense Secretary Leon Panetta gets the information so same no help. Except for the CIA guys that were told not to go.

Like this is something new to Americans who are 90% clueless about foreign policy. They know more about Dancing with the Stars, game shows and programmed shows when to laugh the ones when a word or two and the canned laugh is added in every 3 secs another three words and added laughter.

Some Canadians get it. This one is from an editorial cartoonist that lived in Victoria B.C at that time. We would have lunch together a few times. Times Colonist I believe 1979 “Adrian Raeside” I need to find it again seems the small print on the far right bottom is unreadable.











Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
agree
apologize
deny
forget all negative information

He does have compassion.

go back to worship


what about the lying 91% of the time
more denial?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 10, 2016 - 08:05pm PT

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
Tell who has not

Ah, the old stand-by: Everybody does it.

The difference is that we found out about "the others" after the fact.

In Clinton's case, we have a candidate, one we're not yet committed to, and this time we know in advance what she truly is.

Another difference is that she believes that there is no such thing as accountability for her, so she can be as flagrant as she pleases and then joke about it.

Sadly, about half the people in this nation agree with her.

Sadly, this entire election comes down to voting "against somebody" rather than voting for somebody. Worst choices in my lifetime.

Sadly, given the prisoner's dilemma game of elections, I can't count on the majority to repudiate both major parties and vote third-party. If I could believe that others were as prepared as I am to repudiate both parties, I would vote third-party. But I can't believe that.

So, like everybody else, I see that the only rational thing to do is vote against what I take to be the greater evil. Of course, as just stated, you are all going to do the same thing. May the lessor of the evils win.
Norton

Social climber
May 10, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 10, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
Hyperbole.

If people payed attention to the issues, tuned in to listen instead of parroting oddball conspiracy theories, the choice would be clear.

Hillary talks specifics on the issues. Trump makes it up as he goes.

The debates will be telling. He's going to get murdered.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 10, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
Ok! Klimmer guess as always can’t figure out anything, gave you info on the strange missile or the island that US lets companies play with their toys for defending as in maybe using laser testing to see if will work on an incoming missile not to blow it up but to redirect so as to fall in the water then it again it could be just contrails excuse me chemtrails you say.

The lady in question is Mary Kay Letourneau sister to Joseph Schmitz. Who? is Joseph Schmitz he is Trumps foreign advisor. What has it do with this? Corruption. Look what he does or did or could still do.

Just google his name.

As for the Panama Papers 38 Americans, there is one that has to do with Iraq just have to wait to see if these guys included with the same grouping, remember the millions or was it billions in US cash disappear.

Where did it go.

Funny no news, no big noise about it wonder why? I can speculate but will wait for a couple of months for more info to see. Trump still has not said anything as on foreign policy sure he gave a speech about it but was a joke and said nothing except will get every ISIL/ISIS. He thinks they are holding up and hiding in one area. Problem they will be and are all over the place waiting till the right time.

Erik Prince Under Investigation Again March 28, 2016 by Ed Brayton

Erik Prince, founder of the infamous mercenary company Blackwater and heir from a prominent right-wing Michigan family, is once again under investigation for a number of serious crimes, including money laundering and offering mercenary services to countries under sanction by the United States.

What began as an investigation into Prince’s attempts to sell defense services in Libya and other countries in Africa has widened to a probe of allegations that Prince received assistance from Chinese intelligence to set up an account for his Libya operations through the Bank of China. The Justice Department, which declined to comment for this article, is also seeking to uncover the precise nature of Prince’s relationship with Chinese intelligence…

The Intercept interviewed more than a half dozen of Prince’s associates, including current and former business partners; four former U.S. intelligence officers; and other sources familiar with the Justice Department investigation. All of them requested anonymity to discuss these matters because there is an ongoing investigation. The Intercept also reviewed several secret proposals drafted by Prince and his closest advisers and partners offering paramilitary services to foreign entities.
For more than a year, U.S. intelligence has been monitoring Prince’s communications and movements, according to a former senior U.S. intelligence officer and a second former intelligence official briefed on the investigation. Multiple sources, including two people with business ties to Prince, told The Intercept that current government and intelligence personnel informed them of this surveillance. Those with business ties were cautioned to sever their dealings with Prince.
Despite the provenance of FSG’s funding and Prince’s history of bad publicity, Prince was able to recruit an impressive line-up of former U.S. military and intelligence officers to run the company. Key to Prince’s ability to retain such personnel, given FSG’s ties to China, has been the firm’s strictly circumscribed mission, which does not include military-related services. FSG is a publicly traded aviation and logistics firm specializing in shipping in Africa and elsewhere. The company also conducts high-risk evacuations from conflict zones. Prince has described his work with FSG as being “on the side of peace and economic development” and helping Chinese businesses to work safely in Africa.

But behind the back of corporate leadership at FSG, Prince was living a double life.

Working with a small cadre of loyalists — including a former South African commando, a former Australian air force pilot, and a lawyer with dual citizenship in the U.S. and Israel — Prince sought to secretly rebuild his private CIA and special operations enterprise by setting up foreign shell companies and offering paramilitary services, according to documents reviewed by The Intercept and interviews with several people familiar with Prince’s business proposals.

Several of the proposals for private security services in African nations examined by The Intercept contained metadata in the digital files showing Prince and his inner circle editing and revising various drafts.
Since 2014, Prince has traveled to at least half a dozen countries to offer various versions of a private military force, secretly meeting with a string of African officials. Among the countries where Prince pitched a plan to deploy paramilitary assets is Libya, which is currently subject to an array of U.S. and United Nations financial and defense restrictions.

Check out www.cfnp.org should be up your ally a lot of religious nuts on it check names. Funny Wiki took rewrote and left some things out but he has or persons that can do that. Can’t trust wiki.

*note:

St post: “Time to fire some Generals”

Oct 24, 2013 - 04:57pm PT

Next wars or current are run by the CIA and will in the Future.
Two teams of 6 Americans X 2 with special skills and will be using $2.00 a day Africans: Chad, Senegal, Swaziland.

CIA will subcontract Erik Price baby [Blackwater fame] R2 Reflex Responses for the dirty work.

*note funny that charges against Blackwater have been dropped or less charges with no jail terms, a hundred fine.

Drones manufactured and armed from same area: Africa.

When on a journey in that area or Asia as for climbing carry a bible. That way Price might not shoot you.

CJTF-HOA, ACOTA, AMISOM

This way VA will have less work on no returning troops plus savings on giving candy out to win the hearts and minds.

*Ok! he changed R2 Reflex, became XE, academi others after selling Blackwater and created new ones FSG often for a good reason. As for being a subcontractor I miss calculated since he is now a rouge CIA creating his own merc army. But hey! I was close.

This will create more problems since anything that looks like an American with guns, helicopters, drones the people will always think it as US intervention making it worse.

Pat Robertson will endorse Trump for sure. “Blood Diamonds” again coming to a town or city, country near you, not giving out candy on this one. Pat has a business there as well, used the money he scammed about god from old and naïve people that believe anything he says. He predicts a lot of things but not one of them came about or true when he talked to god and god tells or talks to him every day. $$$$$$$
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 10, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
The scale of the email malfeasance by W's administration and the gop at the time was orders of magnitude more egregious in scope, scale and behavior once called on it. Clinton's email escapades utterly pale in comparison. Yet not a single madbolter1 email post in 2008-10 - where was all the hyperbole and outrage then?

The administration officials had been using a private Internet domain, called gwb43.com, owned by and hosted on an email server run by the Republican National Committee, for various communications of unknown content or purpose.

During the investigation into the firing of eight U.S. attorneys, it became known White House staff was using Republican National Committee (RNC) email accounts. The White House stated it might have lost five million emails.

In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been lost.

Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson alleged that his wife's identity was covert and that members of the George W. Bush administration knowingly revealed that information as retribution for his New York Times op-ed entitled "What I Didn't Find in Africa," of July 6, 2003, regarding the claim that Saddam Hussein was seeking uranium. However, as Plame had been serving in a desk job at Langley for more than five years, she was not considered “covert” under the meaning of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.[24] Patrick J. Fitzgerald, while investigating the leak, found that emails were missing from the White House server.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
tuned in to listen instead of parroting oddball conspiracy theories, the choice would be clear.

Ah, right... a barely subtle way of saying: "Anybody who doesn't see things as I do is an idiot. Anybody barely rational would see things as I do."

No surprise that the nation is deeply (and about evenly) split.

Okay, so here's an issue: By your lights, let's all vote for yet more unfunded (oh, wait: funded by the middle-class) freebies, such as Clinton's sweet new idea: "virtually free child-care for all," so as to, you know, encourage (and "we" all pay for) the having of yet more kids that the "parents" can't afford to raise. Yeah, let's couple that with a $15 per hour minimum wage, so that the child care is even more expensive than it now is. Hey, we can all (well, the tiny subset of us that are left) "chip in" to make it work. Or just go more deeply into debt. Whatever. Doesn't matter. Goooo freebies!

Yup, I agree with you, I guess: The choice is clear to rational people. About half this nation irrationally thinks that being $19+ trillion in debt is the incentive for yet more "free" give-aways rather than just stopping until we are substantively paying down existing debt.

But, the left always tries to win elections with promising more give-aways. And Clinton has just told us what "Clintoncare" is going to look like.

So, yeah, let's vote on the issues, with about half of this nation saying "no" to Clintoncare. I predict that if it's Clinton vs. Trump, she'll take the electoral vote and lose the popular vote, thereby winning the WH.

She's not going to take the needed money from the big-monied interests that have supported her entire career. So, middle-class: Bend over and prepare to be sand-packed yet again.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 09:07pm PT
Yet not a single madbolter1 email post in 2008-10 - where was all the hyperbole and outrage then?

1) I was pretty new to this whole forum approach to "discussion."

2) I was pretty involved in "discussions" about a particular climb and was not frequenting the politard threads in those days.

I'm right with you regarding past outrages! My question is: Why would we knowingly do it to ourselves again, when this time we know the story in advance?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 10, 2016 - 09:11pm PT
Clinton's email escapades utterly pale in comparison.

About that, we entirely disagree.

And, as we have seen and will continue to see, the "email thing" not going away; it's just becoming more pressing. Meanwhile, the number of people is growing that are finally tumbling to just how egregious her corruption is.

Again, why would we do it to ourselves when we know in advance this time?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 10, 2016 - 10:11pm PT
He's an employer who cares about his employees.

The ones he imported or the citizens he displaced? Dude, you are delusional.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 10, 2016 - 11:04pm PT
Madbolter 1

I am not really a fan of Hillary myself. Problem she is a hawk, reason for leaving the office since disagreed how the president screwed up things when she wanted more intervention. Even pres said his biggest mistake was Libya. But you can’t really blame him since we did the same when we helped out getting the Russians out then coming back home leaving Afghanistan in shambles. A book and movie that was pretty close on what went wrong and should have been done. We did it again in Iraq, left it and figured the people and an election would help, of course then we made sure that the right person should run the country our way not listening to the people or group that should have been put in. Meese screwed that up he was on the committee what went wrong. Then Libya comes around at first it was not our problem, NATO needed the air power and bombs that we are good at, we agreed or came on board but left leaving 3 different parties fighting for power. We gave weapons small, medium and a little big ones and sure enough one group decided to go over and sided with Al-Qaeda and then we get Benghazi.

So it is going to be interesting whose Military going to be the fighting. A mercenary paid contractor such as Prince or others, Clinton has no problem there. Trump I worry more. There a lot of right wing officers most Lt. Colonels that retired early or told to because disagreements in where or how to fight, thousands or less like we are doing now and advising. We did that in Viet Nam it takes years to train not an overnight job. Prince belongs to a group of people that go back a few years that Jerry Falwell help to create. Noticed that his son indorsed Trump as well as Billy Graham Jr. Both hate Muslims to a tee.

I remember when the Clintons were in office sure we had monies back then and the VA was completely different then of course there were less guys to cure back then and he helped but when Hillary talked about having a health system for all Americans modeled like the VA system. it must have been days before I had to stop laughing. The way it is now it is really bad and not getting any better.

Their Foundation is a concern to me as well.

It will up to the Intelligence agencies that will brief him if for reason he gets in. I believe they give some idea of what it will like up to the election. Will they give it all to him or just a little. He has a big mouth and might reveal something like he always does. ‘I just heard that the……..”

So sure right now status quo or some new and dangerous? Hopefully I will out of town like bye,bye,so long America it was nice knowing fun but matter of time when Americans will be fighting each other, same on ST OP posts here: hate, "you are wrong, I am right". Military will come in like in Thailand to restore order. There is no middle you are either red or blue. In Thailand it is yellow or red. At least the government will pass out toilet paper as well as water and food. Of course if haven’t used it lately you need 10x sheets more. Low bid.
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
May 10, 2016 - 11:05pm PT
It's nice to have a teacher-of-our-youth pipe in occasionally.

It really swings the compass of understanding on so many levels.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 11, 2016 - 05:34am PT
klimmer posted
There were people who did cheer when the towers came down. That is a fact. Not happy about that at all.

There are 7 billion people in the world. The odds that somewhere, someone is having any given reaction to any given event are essentially 100%. Just because there is someone, somewhere who might have been doing something does not give license to make generalizations about entire classes of people.

Klimmer posted
It's wrong, but it isn't illegal behavior.

It's true, demagoguery is not illegal.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 05:35am PT
So, like everybody else, I see that the only rational thing to do is vote against what I take to be the greater evil. Of course, as just stated, you are all going to do the same thing. May the lessor of the evils win.

If you do not have the conviction to vote for the best candidate then why are you arguing the point with Clinton so hard?

For the record I agree with you regarding Clinton, but if you admit that you will vote for Trump rather than the best candidate regardless of their likelihood of winning, then how can you claim the high ground?

I am absolutely convinced that you recognize the fact that both parties, and Trump for the purposes of this argument, are BOTH systematically increasing the size of government, redistributing wealth and are die-hard enemies to freedom and personal liberty. Including attacking the precious 2nd Amendment. BOTH parties.

And yet you will continue to vote for one of them for what? Because you want to vote for someone that has a chance of winning?

If this is the case, why on earth do you waste your time discussing the point? Just vote for Hillary since she is going to win and then you can say you voted for the winner.

Either you have the conviction to vote for the candidate that most aligns with your thoughts and ideas about how the country should be run, or not.

I might be convinced that you will vote Republican because you want to "lose slowly" but that's a pretty weak argument in my view. But at least its a reason.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 11, 2016 - 05:41am PT
Trump's campaign accidentally picked a delegate who wants to deport people with "Negro blood"

"I just don't get why people think race is such an issue with Trump. Stop with the political correctness, people! Trump is a proven manager and will run the government like an efficient company."
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 11, 2016 - 06:10am PT
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 11, 2016 - 06:11am PT
Then why is the FBI still investigating her?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 11, 2016 - 06:13am PT
Eh. There are really good questions and issues around Clinton's actions but Republicans are so eager to elevate everything to Watergate levels that the legitimacy of the inquiry has been squandered.

Then why is the FBI still investigating her?

Federal government: model of efficiency
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 11, 2016 - 07:54am PT
For the record I agree with you regarding Clinton, but if you admit that you will vote for Trump rather than the best candidate regardless of their likelihood of winning, then how can you claim the high ground?

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm claiming any "higher ground." This election sucks worse than anything I've ever seen, and there is nothing here but a choice between the lessor of the evils as they appear to me at actual voting time.

This has nothing to do with voting for who has the best chance of winning. This has everything to do with voting against the most evil of the two major candidates, and sweepingly the national polls indicate that this is the motivation of most people! It's a sad day when the best the two parties have to offer put the vast majority of us in that position!

I can't say, "I'll vote for trump," because there's no way to know how evil he's going to appear to be by November. At present about the only thing I'm fairly confident about is that Clinton will not get my vote.

And if you think that I'll prioritize voting Republican, then I haven't made myself clear over the last couple of years. I am no Republican and have about zero respect for that party as well!

I do vote the "best candidate" as I see them, which, sadly, in this election amounts to the lessor of the (perceived) evils.

There is no "high ground" to be had this time.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 08:09am PT
High Ground might have been the wrong implication.

If a Libertarian candidate is on the ballot come November who lines up with your belief system, would you vote for them?> If not, why?

EDIT: Or any other third party for that matter
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 11, 2016 - 08:31am PT
Not looking good for Hillary.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/05/10/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-quinnipiac-poll-florida-ohio-pennsylvania/84173448/
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 11, 2016 - 08:47am PT
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Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 08:50am PT
How old are you? lol
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 11, 2016 - 09:01am PT
So much time and money wasted on the Circus. Short of lightning striking, the puppet-in-chief is already chosen, with backups. Someone who can read their lines (they learned that from Bush) and will do what they're told to do.

But the circus is fun, let's everyone think they have a 'choice'.

I like popcorn.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 11, 2016 - 09:03am PT
Old enough to know that anyone who unironically uses the term "statist" has a college sophomore's worldview and isn't worth taking seriously.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 11, 2016 - 09:24am PT
I'm fairly confident about is that Clinton will not get my vote.

Progress. There's a chance you might do the right thing.

Fast forward to Sept. 26th, Dayton, Ohio, the first presidential debate. My guess is your confidence level will decrease. We'll see.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 11, 2016 - 09:34am PT
Well, after all, G00D does work in mysterious ways.

I wonder what G00D was teaching when Hillary and Bush/Cheney got together and slaughtered all those Middle Easterners.

Death to Spam?

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 09:44am PT
Trump is all over the place with his proposals

first he said the taxes will go up for the rich, then down, then up again

then it was super low, at 25% for the top marginal rate, which is 39% now

then he hired Reagan's financial gurus, Morris and Kudrow, and they said it should be 28%

He will change on a dime, because he doesn't know sh#t, anyone can tell him anything and he will believe it

So it's going like Reagan, all hat and no cowboy, and his Neo-Con advisors will make all the decisions and run rough shod over the Country like W. Bush,
he will just be the evil figure head at the top
of course they won't care when the tax plan add trillions to the debt, like Reagan said, deficits don't matter (because we will blame it on the Dems and they can clean up the carcass after we fed on it)

Compassion? what a joke.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 11, 2016 - 09:45am PT
Well, after all, G00D does work in mysterious ways.

I wonder what G00D was teaching when Hillary and Bush/Cheney got together and slaughtered all those Middle Easterners.

Who is responsible for all the Syrians who have died in the last 5 years? Is Bill Clinton responsible for the Rwandan genocide? America loves to demand their politicians do things and then blame them for doing them.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 09:52am PT
Talk about Hypocrisy

They bashed Obama over the head about not having a strategy for ISIS
They demanded to know what the plan was

Trump says he doesn't know what his plan is, but won't tell it anyway because it would be secret

and they praise him like he fixed the problem overnight

saying that they can't reveal the plan because then the enemy would know what the plan was, and thwart the effort.

Obama doesn't reveal plan = bad, ineffective, leading from behind

Trump doesn't reveal plan = Awesome leader

by the way, Obama did have a plan, and ISIS in Iraq has been devastated.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 09:53am PT
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 11, 2016 - 09:58am PT
It ain't that complicated:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/05/heres-the-real-reason-we-all-underrated-trump.html#

Why did almost everybody fail to predict Donald Trump’s victory in the Republican primaries? Nate Silver blames the news media, disorganized Republican elites, and the surprising appeal of cultural grievance. Nate Cohn lists a number of factors, from the unusually large candidate field to the friendly calendar. Jim Rutenberg thinks journalism strayed too far from good old-fashioned shoe-leather reporting. Justin Wolfers zeroes in on Condorcet’s paradox. Here’s the factor I think everybody missed: The Republican Party turns out to be filled with idiots. Far more of them than anybody expected.

Most voters don’t follow politics and policy for a living, and it’s understandable that they would often fall for arguments based on faulty numbers or a misreading of history. But a figure like Trump is of a completely different cast than the usual political slickster. He is several orders of magnitude more clownish and uninformed than the dumbest major-party nominee I’ve ever seen before. (That would be George W. Bush.) As low as my estimation of the intelligence of the Republican electorate may be, I did not think enough of them would be dumb enough to buy his act. And, yes, I do believe that to watch Donald Trump and see a qualified and plausible president, you probably have some kind of mental shortcoming.As many fellow Republicans have pointed out, Donald Trump is a con man. What I failed to realize — and, I believe, what so many others failed to realize, though they have reasons not to say so — is just how easily so many Republicans are duped.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
May 11, 2016 - 10:01am PT
The reason is that Trump is the Republican party. He hasn't said one thing, except on trade, that isn't solidly part of current Republican doctrine.
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 10:02am PT
Here’s the factor I think everybody missed: The Republican Party turns out to be filled with idiots.


oh but they are doing the best they can with what the lord gave them to work with


[Click to View YouTube Video]
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 11, 2016 - 10:04am PT
Let's not be exclusive here. This election has proved that there are no shortage of idiots voting in the Democratic primary. Many of them don't want to identify as Democrats, but they are happy to believe whatever their Facebook feed tells them to. They are good hearted and well meaning, but still not employing a lot of brain power.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 10:06am PT
Trump's son, Eric

Trump's family
Just regular people like Klmmer and pyro
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 10:08am PT
This election has proved that there are no shortage of idiots voting in the Democratic primary.
Good grief
and you have proof of this from where?
Fox News

you really need to be more careful HDDJ
you are making a lot untrue statements with zero evidence to back them

is it helping anyone's cause?

They have to be less of an idiot than a Trump voter by your own words.
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 10:14am PT
This election has proved that there are no shortage of idiots voting in the Democratic primary.

because they voted for Bernie or Hillary, HDDJ?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 10:34am PT
Well, maybe because they continue to think Bernie has a chance, and there are LOTS of holes in Bernie's policies that just don't make any sense?

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/eb3ye9/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-bernie-sanders-stays-in-the-race


Oh, the Democratic Party has it's fair share of wingnutz. They just don't look so bad when they're on the same side of the fence as you.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 11, 2016 - 10:45am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

heh

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 11, 2016 - 10:49am PT
Norton asked
because they voted for Bernie or Hillary, HDDJ?

It's not how they voted at all it's the propaganda they are happy to keep repeating without thinking. It's hard to believe this "what the mainstream media won't cover" garbage is still working.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 10:52am PT
It's not how they voted at all it's the propaganda they are happy to keep repeating without thinking.

do tell
what do they keep repeating?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 10:57am PT
Hey, we elected one Politifact Lie of the Year award winner. What's one more right? Everybody does it.


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 11:01am PT
Here's my fear, and it's big!!!

Now that Trump has taken the Presidential slot

The big money donors (Koch) will just give up on the Presidential election, and focus all their money on Congress, state and local elections

It could very well be a complete take over if we don't fight those races

I want to send a letter to the DNC, and tell then that they can come up with some ads that tell the voters that the Koch bros are the money behind the rampant smear ads that they will run

an ad that tries to focus on where the smear campaign money comes from, like "do you want to be a moronic dupe to big money interests and believe these smears".
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 11:03am PT
hey 4 year old
Where does it say lie of the year?
Obama's statement was only half true
can you READ

Did you keep your insurance? or your Doctors?
I did, and most everyone else did

so it's pretty much a complete BS story you tried to sell us
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 11:05am PT
Yep, I kept mine, too.

That's only a Half True, anyway...Trump has a something like 92% Pants on Fire rating...worst ever!

Keep digging, Esco.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 11, 2016 - 11:40am PT
Craig posted
do tell
what do they keep repeating?

I've made numerous posts about it. I'm not going to bother making another. Pick any random pro-Sanders meme. They haven't changed in months.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 11:47am PT
Hey CF, I figured since you were so up on the Politifact Lie of the Year Awards you would have known Obeezy already beat Trump to that prestigious award.

Sorry if that offends you, its just fact. And guess what, I have a link to prove it just like you yearn for. Boom

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/


We good?
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 11:54am PT
At least now MILLIONS more that were not insured, ARE...

I don't give a damn about them

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 11, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
There's nothing wrong with helping the unfortunate by choice.

Now can we agree stealing money by first financial extortion and then at the point of a rifle would seem wrong? Then the theif takes their sizable cut, distributes it to his network of hundreds of henchmen and drops a few pennies on the unfortunate.

But if the state does that it's cool.



madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 11, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
If a Libertarian candidate is on the ballot come November who lines up with your belief system, would you vote for them?> If not, why?

As I said, there's an element of game theory here. At present, given that Clinton seems the likely Democratic candidate, my vote to keep her out of the WH is more important to me than a drop-in-the-bucket elevation of a Libertarian candidate. If I saw a shred of Libertarian momentum, that would change my assessment. But, like most Americans in this election, I'm more casting my vote "against somebody" than for anybody in particular.

I'd love there to be a minimally credible Libertarian candidate that garnered some traction, but Americans are so inured to freedom at this point (and the personal responsibility that goes with it) that Libertarianism seems to them to originate in (and belong to) some alternate universe. So, I don't see any traction happening there.

Thus, we're a two-party nation, and the Democrats have hitched their wagon to Clinton.

Trump could turn out to be a pedophile, child-murderer or something like that. All sorts of things could happen between now and November that could be game-changers. But the way things stand today, I find Trump less odious than Clinton.

There's no "lofty principle" at play here, as the party more aligned with what I take to be the key principles has no hope of traction. So, at present, my goal with my one, tiny, diluted vote is to keep Clinton out of the WH. Nothing more "principled" than that (although I do have some underlying principles that motivate how odious I find her).
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
short fingered vulgarian
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 11, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
Let them continue to get nowhere...

Projecting much?
dirtbag

climber
May 11, 2016 - 12:29pm PT
Let them die.
dirtbag

climber
May 11, 2016 - 12:34pm PT

Ah, yes. Self reliance and personal responsibility.

An oldie but goodie:

A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN

Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of coffee, he
takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joes employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.

If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

Its noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day.

Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 12:41pm PT
Nice one, Dirt
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
"We good?"

Far from it, Esco. You found one Half Truth.

Donald's got dozens of Pants on Fire.

Keep digging, buddy.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 11, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have.

If you could prove that all these "benefits" arose strictly and entirely from left-wing liberalism, you still would not have made the critical point necessary.

When I pay taxes to support such things as roads, fire-departments, etc., I am reaping a direct benefit back to myself in the form of those very tangible goods and services I am paying taxes for.

By contrast, when I pay taxes to literally have my money taken from me and handed directly to somebody "less fortunate" (by somebody's estimation), I receive no direct benefit back to myself in the form of the very tangible goods/services I am supposedly paying for. Such "taxation" is literally just stealing from me to "give" to somebody else.

I am not opposed to taxation. But I am opposed to theft. I am opposed to the "socialism" (falsely so called) that conflates road-building with wealth-redistribution.

I am opposed to conflating all "entitlements" together, as though if I want some fraction of SSI/Medicare back that I spent my life paying into, then I must also agree with the full-blown welfare state.

I am opposed to the "less fortunate" idea that equates to dragging all income-levels down to the lowest common denominator.

I am opposed to a president and party that insists "People who have been successful and don't realize they've been lucky. That God may have blessed them; it wasn't nothing you did," as if my working until the wee hours while my employees are home enjoying themselves so that necessary things get done, well, that effort (and any resulting success) "wasn't nothing you did." Nothing! It wasn't nothing I did! But I can tell you that the necessary things get done not by luck but by something I did!

I am offended by the suggestion that any success I enjoy now and into the future was primarily luck, as if that means that I have no rights to the private property (the concept of which founded this nation!) I have earned, so that others are (somehow) just as entitled to my property as I am.

Half this nation has become firmly entrenched in the entitlement mentality that genuinely believes "It wasn't nothing you did" and so will employ the full force of the government to steal the private property of people to give to other people.

However, half this nation still believes in some robust notion of private property. Unfortunately, the halves don't fall along neat party lines, so it is easy to keep the private-property folks divided and ineffectual. Meanwhile, the "default position" of the feds now is to steal from the "rich" to give to the "poor," and somehow on a grand scale this is seen as something more "noble" than the mere theft that it is.

It's not greed to say, "Don't steal from me." And if you don't believe that, then don't you dare call a cop the next time somebody steals something of significance from you. The thief was just as entitled to "your" property as you were.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
Hahaha. What I found was a website that gave Obeezy the same award CF has been trotting out for Trump like a 4 year old.

And he doesn't like it. Which makes the silly website that much more endearing to me.
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
well, if lying is so very important in determining which political candidate to support then why are you supporting Donald Trump?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
Can't seem to find anything close to the scope and scale of Trump's lying, eh, Esco?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
I could care less about the scope of Trumps lying. I just love how the partisans trot out stupid awards like the "Poltifact Lie of the Year" and say that anyone who gets that award is unsuitable to be president.

Especially in light of the fact that our current president has received the same award.

It shows the partisan retards for what they are: Hypocrites
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
You really don't understand how PolitiFact works, do you, Esco?

Except in the narrowest sense possible to serve your ignorant agenda.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
LOL, yeah I guess I don't know how it works. Please, by all means, do tell.

I am DYING to hear this.



EDIT: Locker - feast your eyes on THAT ^^^^^^
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
I could care less about the scope of Trumps lying.

well, you should care very much about Donald's lying

reason being, lying is very important to you, you talk about it a lot

you care so much about the morality and ethics of Democrats

fair is fair, you have to care as much about the Republicans you support

you can't duck this one and ignore your boy's lies while you adore him at the same time

strike three, you have zero crediblity
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 01:47pm PT
Hahaha. I'm a Trump supporter now? Wow, that's news.

How old are you?
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
Trump now says he will NOT release his tax returns

and today he says he will appoint supreme court justices that would overturn Roe v Wade

no wonder you adore him, Esco and guyman and Klimmer and the other thumb suckers
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 11, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
EDIT FOR CLARITY
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 11, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
By contrast, when I pay taxes to literally have my money taken from me and handed directly to somebody "less fortunate" (by somebody's estimation), I receive no direct benefit back to myself in the form of the very tangible goods/services I am supposedly paying for.


The direct benefit is that those "less fortunate", who may have a mental illness, are less likely to be driven to violent crime against you.

A more egalitarian society is a more stable society. Ancient Rome had a huge wealth disparity right before it crumbled. Pre-revolutionary France had an elite upper-crust that was oblivious to the plight of the poor masses, who then took up arms against their oppressors.


When you say that government handouts are for losers, you must first put yourself into the position of the people in the Midwest, where entire industries are disappearing. Human privations sometimes don't have any sort of alternative relief.

Railing against handouts is similar to decrying famine relief for a drought-stricken nation, because the "losers" didn't work hard enough to grow crops without any water.






Trump is now saying that he won't release his tax returns. He claims that there is no information in his returns that would be of interest to anyone.


http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/05/11/3777219/trump-called-mitt-romney-release-tax-returns-wont-release/


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-says-he-will-be-the-first-candidate-since-1976-not-to-release-tax-returns-2016-05-11




Again, Il Douce has shown that nothing he says can be trusted.


Trump will soon back off his ridiculous plan for The Wall, when he finally learns that he can't just seize remittances being sent to Mexico.






madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 11, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
The direct benefit is that those "less fortunate", who may have a mental illness, are less likely to be driven to violent crime against you.

You have now so expanded the notion of "direct" that it distinguishes nothing. You have turned me paying taxes for roads that buy me actual roads into pure abstractions that can be "said" to be literally anything. By your lights, whatever the government forces me to pay for is a "direct benefit to me," such as funding for "direct" bribes to government officials. So, if the government becomes entirely corrupt and just shunts my money into the hands of government officials, by your lights I have (somehow) received a "direct benefit to myself."

A more egalitarian society is a more stable society.

Pure speculation. A totalitarian society is also a stable society. Just look at what happened with the fall of Sadam in Iraq.

And, again, this idea is such an abstraction (and "assessed" on such a sliding scale) that "direct benefit to myself" can be taken to mean literally anything at all. The government decides to steal my money, pour it into its own officials' pockets, and now I've gotten the "direct benefit to myself" of stability?

Sorry, not buying it!

Ancient Rome had a huge wealth disparity right before it crumbled. Pre-revolutionary France had an elite upper-crust that was oblivious to the plight of the poor masses, who then took up arms against their oppressors.

So, this argument is that people like me (by FAR not wealthy!) must submit to the "extortion of the masses," so that I am "buying" the "direct benefit to myself" of being forced to "pay a little" so that I don't end up having to "pay a lot"? Is that the idea?

Then what distinguishes this model from mob shakedowns of businesses?

Of course the government has more force than the mob, but I'm asking about legitimacy and principled behavior, not the "capacity" to do something.

When you say that government handouts are for losers

You lost me right there. I have not said that.

you must first put yourself into the position of the people in the Midwest, where entire industries are disappearing. Human privations sometimes don't have any sort of alternative relief.

I have been dirt-poor myself, in fact most of my life. And I have lost an entire career that should have been rock-solid. I am no stranger to privation myself. I am sympathetic to it!

But that sympathy does not ground institutionalized theft. I believe in a nation of charitable people. But charity is voluntary rather than compulsory!

The irony is that the left supposedly believes in "charity," but its strict employment of force reveals that it really believes that most people will not be charitable if charity is voluntary. So the left believes that you must (and can only) force people to be charitable. But, again, that is no longer charity; it is compulsion.

If you believe in any sense of private property, then it is indeed theft when you take somebody's private property by force to hand it to somebody else.

Instead, the left should be foremost in educating people about the joys of genuine charity toward others, providing vehicles for charitable giving, etc.

The force aspect is unsustainable.
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 02:29pm PT


I have my money taken from me and handed directly to somebody "less fortunate" (by somebody's estimation), I receive no direct benefit back to myself in the form of the very tangible goods/service

So what?

Grow up or move to Somalia

Lots of rugged individualists like you there
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
Does anybody actually read Madbolter's walls of text?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 02:52pm PT
Eskochea
No where did it say that Obama was Politfact Liar of the Year

are we supposed to dig for it somewhere, or just assume he was the winner for having a half true statement, that's mostly true?

so you did a pretty poor job making your lame ass point
just like most the points you try to make, they are pure BS
dirtbag

climber
May 11, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
Mb, I'm not sure who said any success you enjoy is primarily a result of luck. But luck is a large element for most people. Free upward mobility has largely been a myth. Those folks born into a lower socioeconomic situation usually stay there.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 03:00pm PT
Craig Fry, you make my points for me. Its that easy.

Too bad your boy Obeezy won the liar of the year award which puts him in the same esteemed company as your guy Trump. How nice.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 03:03pm PT
Does anybody actually read Madbolter's walls of text?

I do. I like watching him own the tards on here. The real question is does anyone read the links and cut and paste crap that others put up as a veiled attempt at hiding their own lack of clear reasoning.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 11, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
Mb, I'm not sure who said any success you enjoy is primarily a result of luck.

Obama said it in his commencement speech at Harvard. Along with (sic) "You didn't do nothing."

There's no help for anybody that can yawn at such an outrageous claim or the radically leftist sentiment that underlies it.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
Craig Fry, you make my points for me.

I sure did
You failed to make any point at all
Just more right wing lame ass talking points that have been found to be WRONG

or maybe half true
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 11, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
Does anybody actually read Madbolter's walls of text?

Greasemonkey prevents that for me.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
I wonder if Trump would make this speech if President. Maybe so since he's one of the more "fortunate" people.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 03:52pm PT
Defend your adoration for Lying Donald

explain how you support such a prodigious liar
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
Nature
You're not missing anything
It's just a lot of whining about paying taxes, which he call theft by Government
and whining about how much he hates Hillary
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
You had help building that!

If you used a public road, or a bank, had the police protect your area or used anything besides your own personal stuff
then Obama was correct, you had Government Help

I know that's hard to comprehend for a 4 year old
It's all me, me me me me mine mine mine, when your that age

Grown ups can see that we all work together as a society that allows your business to be in business

You want no Government help, move to Somalia and see how your business works out, it would be robbed on day one.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 11, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
Mitt Romney:

It is disqualifying for a modern-day presidential nominee to refuse to release tax returns to the voters, especially one who has not been subject to public scrutiny in either military or public service. Tax returns provide the public with its sole confirmation of the veracity of a candidate's representations regarding charities, priorities, wealth, tax conformance, and conflicts of interest. Further, while not a likely circumstance, the potential for hidden inappropriate associations with foreign entities, criminal organizations, or other unsavory groups is simply too great a risk to ignore for someone who is seeking to become commander-in-chief.

Mr. Trump says he is being audited. So? There is nothing that prevents releasing tax returns that are being audited. Further, he could release returns for the years immediately prior to the years under audit. There is only one logical explanation for Mr. Trump's refusal to release his returns: there is a bombshell in them. Given Mr. Trump's equanimity with other flaws in his history, we can only assume it's a bombshell of unusual size.

(Anticipating inquiries regarding my own tax release history, I released my 2010 tax returns in January of 2012 and I released my 2011 tax returns as soon as they were completed, in September of 2012.)
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 11, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
That does it, I'm heading to the Mind thread with the other gross materialists.
dirtbag

climber
May 11, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
Lol!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
Locker, wasn't there a Seinfeld episode about a hand fetish?


VVVVVV. LOL
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
MB1: Don't you consider your game theory to be nothing short of a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Meaning if you don't think there is enough votes to support you casting yours then there will never be enough votes for you cast a third party ballot until your vote is no longer needed.

I used to feel the way you do and I realize that there is no candidate that completely covers my views. But I decided that I'm simply no longer going to vote for a candidate that represents such high percentage of objectionable views regardless of how bad the "other" guy is.

I don't care if Satan himself was running against Donald Trump (and we're close) it would still not inspire me to vote for Trump as long as there is another option that aligns more closely with my views.

If this election shows that Hillary wins and the rest of the votes are split evenly between Drumph and the Libertarian then it just might inspire people to look beyond the religious-right controlled GOP.

Thoughts?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 11, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
I can't find it anywhere, but heard on the news that some one toted up the number who have actually voted for Trump (= 10 million). There are something like 130 million voters.

Equal time for Hillary? I did not hear of anyone counting up her vote totals.


BTW Herr Braun thanks for pointing that out. This whole thread could probably be distilled down to about 100 posts. Reilly and his wife have volunteered to do it (for a price).


Hard to read, but what's a little hard work for the hearty?

DATE STATE CAUCUS ESTIMATED TURNOUT SANDERS VOTE TARGET CLINTON’S SHARE
4/9 Wyoming ✓ 7,966 6,736 1,230
4/19 New York 1,412,388 801,954 610,434
4/26 Connecticut 267,973 154,835 113,138
Delaware 78,351 40,962 37,389
Maryland 682,599 346,624 335,975
Pennsylvannia 1,762,837 1,000,939 761,898
Rhode Island 138,336 82,697 55,639
5/3 Indiana 967,991 568,985 399,006
5/10 West Virginia 264,415 169,966 94,449
5/17 Kentucky 523,479 299,849 223,630
Oregon 508,416 334,436 173,980
6/7 North Dakota ✓ 18,278 14,816 3,462
California 4,039,240 2,273,284 1,765,956
Montana 142,410 100,086 42,324
New Jersey 852,395 462,680 389,715
New Mexico 210,977 124,012 86,965
South Dakota 75,404 50,355 25,049
6/14 D.C. 104,874 49,060 55,814
Target totals 12,058,329 6,882,276 5,176,053
Already voted 16,734,424* 7,034,997 9,412,426
Total 28,792,753* 13,917,273 14,588,479
How many votes Bernie Sanders needs to catch up in delegates
*Includes votes for candidates other than Sanders and Clinton


Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 11, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
12.5 million so far for Hillary.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
He made it this far with basically with greater than 40% of the Republican vote

Republicans love him, he is their savior from the actual Republican Party that they hate with a passion, since they screwed them so bad with big promises but no action
but they can't vote for a commie liberal, so The Donald is the answer

For them, He's not in bed with the Neo-con leaders or the big money interests of the GOP, and not liberal commie

Just what they have been looking for since Reagan!!!

Problem is, he's in bed with the Neo-cons and taking money from the big money interests,
and he's a fascist rather than a commie

you to keep in mind that these are not very bright people, they don't know there is difference between liberal and commie,
nor do they know that what they really are asking for is pure fascism
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
"Eskochea
No where did it say that Obama was Politfact Liar of the Year"


Craig, Esco has no idea what the f*#k PolitiFact is.

Surprised? Me either. Such resources are dedicated to filtering the endless blather from all kinds of politicians, and checking them for actual facts.

Esco doesn't know about such things. He prefers to remain blissfully ignorant, with his mouth sewn tightly to the spewing ass of whatever crap shows up in his email inbox.

Facts? We don't need no stinkin' facts. We've got Faux News!!

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
"That Trump made it this far really is amazing..."

It is amazing. And it erodes the oft-repeated whining about how the only candidates that can become viable must have the blessing of the Establishment. (This goes for Bernie, too.)

Too bad the one who managed to get around the Establishment is a Grade A Number 1 D#@&%ebag.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
Still waiting for you to tell me how it works. I suppose you have no clue but blow hard on it anyway.
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
he is black and she is a woman

all you need to know
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 11, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
Holy crap you guys are still at it? Ever time I look there's another 150 threads!

Any progress?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
Esco, PolitiFact is a fact-checking resource. They take the various claims that politicians make, and then dig into them to check them for accuracy.

There is no 'Lie of the Year' with PolitiFact, moron.

Here's some background, not that you give a flatulent sh#t.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolitiFact.com
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
Actually yes. Much progress.

We found that Trump and Obeezy have a lot in common.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 11, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/12/21/donald-trump-wins-politifacts-lie-of-the-year/
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
Um, Apogee. Did you look at that link you posted? LOL
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 07:26pm PT
Musta been a doozy, Bob.

That's not PolitiFact's raison d'etre.

Ho, f*#k...that's French, Esco!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
You mean where it says this?


PolitiFact.com is a project operated by the Tampa Bay Times, in which reporters and editors from the Times and affiliated media outlets "fact-check statements by members of Congress, the White House, lobbyists and interest groups".[2] They publish original statements and their evaluations on the PolitiFact.com website, and assign each a "Truth-O-Meter" rating. The ratings range from "True" for completely accurate statements to "Pants on Fire" (from the taunt "Liar, liar, pants on fire") for false and ridiculous claims.[3]

The site also includes an "Obameter", tracking President Barack Obama's performance with regard to his campaign promises, and a "GOP Pledge-O-Meter", which tracks promises made by House Republicans in their "Pledge to America". PolitiFact.com's local affiliates keep similar track of statements and figures of regional relevance, as evidenced by PolitiFact Tennessee's "Haslam-O-Meter" tracking Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam's efforts[4] and Wisconsin's "Walk-O-Meter" tracking Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's efforts.[5]

While PolitiFact has won several awards, the site has been both praised and criticized by independent observers, conservatives and liberals alike. Both liberal and conservative bias have been alleged at different points, and criticisms have been made that PolitiFact attempts to fact-check statements that cannot be truly "fact-checked".[6][7]
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 07:31pm PT

May 11, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
Esco, PolitiFact is a fact-checking resource. They take the various claims that politicians make, and then dig into them to check them for accuracy.

There is no 'Lie of the Year' with PolitiFact, moron.

Here's some background, not that you give a flatulent sh#t


I went ahead and quoted you so that when you realize what a tard you are, you can't go back and edit it.

They've only been handing out the Lie of the Year since 2009.

Obeezy earned it in 2013 with his obamacare flatulence. Trump matched his crazy and got the nod in 2015.


It's generally bad form to claim the mental high ground when you can't even read the links that you posted yourself that contradick (sp?) your claim.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
Whatever, Esco. That's not what PolitiFact is known for.

They do ongoing fact-checking of claims made by politicians on boths sides of the aisle, whether they like it or not.


Trumps record is truly stunning, though:

“PolitiFact has been documenting Trump’s statements on our Truth-O-Meter, where we’ve rated 76 percent of them Mostly False, False or Pants on Fire, out of 77 statements checked,” according to the publication. “No other politician has as many statements rated so far down on the dial.”

PolitiFact listed several misstatements, including one in which Trump said Mexico sends its “bad” citizens over the U.S. border and another that “whites killed by blacks — 81 percent” when, in fact, most people are killed by someone of the same race."


Suck on that, potato head.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
Seriously. You should stop now.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 11, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
And you idiots whine all day about Trump.

Say the same bullsh!t all day every day.


you know... you're really not any different. the subject of your observations might be but the same bullsh!t different day is rather prevalent in your posts. take a step back maybe?

Seriously... "stupid Americans"

a) last we all checked you hold an American passport, no?
b) do you not past that daily?

give it a rest. take a break. it's unbecoming.


Nature
You're not missing anything

I'm aware of that. and you might be surprised at the long list of greased avatars. or knot.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
Esco, just admit it. Up until a couple days ago, you had no f*#king idea what PolitiFact is, or what it does.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
Good lord dude. Preserve some dignity. Just stop now and at the rate of this thread your ignorance will fade into the back page.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 07:50pm PT

But, mostly, f*#k you, evangelicals. You sold your souls to the greedy, pandering politicians to fight for you in the bullshit culture wars. You ignore people who actually want to do things that Jesus talked about, like helping the poor and the sick and the oppressed, in favor of false prophets and sinners who get you to believe the lie that you'll get rich by making the rich richer, and that's fine as long as they hate them some queers and abortion, the twin baubles you are tossed as your presumptive leaders rob you blind, turn you into willing hypocrites, and tell you it's all God's will.

Right now, you're actually thinking about voting for the vulgar serial adulterer. And if you feel, as one pastor said, "abandoned by our party," well, sh#t, it was never really your party. You were just the marks for a bunch of con men, starting with Ronald Reagan. And as long as they abided by your hatred of difference and progress, you let them go on conning you. Now, in Trump, you finally have to face a candidate who can barely find the time to pay you lip service, let alone give you the blow jobs you're used to.

Congratulations, motherf*#kers. Get on your knees. Not to pray. Now it's your turn to blow.

 See more at: http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/#sthash.Dv6wpltI.dpuf
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 11, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
PolitiFact listed several misstatements, including one in which Trump said Mexico sends its “bad” citizens over the U.S. border and another that “whites killed by blacks — 81 percent” when, in fact, most people are killed by someone of the same race."



Wait! Wait!

We can't forget the "Thousands and Thousands" of cheering Muslims in Jersey City nobody else can document, unless you count five dancing Mossad agents.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html
I haven't heard that kind of accounting since Carl Sagan talked about the galaxies.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
Or since Obama said you could keep your insurance.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
Remember when idiots went bugf*#k because President Obama put his feet up on the desk in the Oval Office? Remember when dumbasses lost their tiny minds because Obama was dressed too casually for a phone call with Vladimir Putin on the crisis in the Ukraine? Remember when f*#knuts raised the batshit level to 11 because Obama saluted some Marines while he had a coffee cup in his hand?
Now imagine that photo up there was with President Obama. Imagine that a major terrorist attack had just occurred on U.S. soil, and this picture captured Obama sitting back with his feet on a desk as he was managing the crisis. Imagine the hategasm that would have ejaculated all over the media about what a filthy pig motherf*#ker Obama was for daring to look relaxed at such a time. Imagine if, during the bin Laden raid, he had kicked back all chill and sh#t. There would have been calls for his impeachment, if not his head. - See more at: http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/#sthash.Dv6wpltI.dpuf
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
Eskochea

serious question
did you keep your insurance?
yes or no?
how about your doctor?
did you have to get ones after ObamaCare?

you do know that you have to get a new insurance plan every year?

so this whole thing you set up is complete BS

and no where in your original post did it say Poilitfact lie of the year!
what a waste of time you are

just like Sketch
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
The level of backpedaling here is mind-numbing. Really, you guys can stop drilling, you struck oil.

Pyro, I need an exploding head fix. Hit me one time for the St Louis Bluenotes!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 08:03pm PT





...and on and on and on and on....

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
But but but
Klimmer says Trump doesn't lie
nor is he corrupt or a criminal like Hillary

Could he way off??
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
I wonder if Trump could pick Obama as his VP running mate?

2 Politifact Liars of the Year on the same ticket could be quite a dynasty.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
Criminal behavior Google Search of Donald trump



18 USC § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government“Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government… Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.”


2012
With lawsuits pending and shady partners, Trump’s business empire could not withstand the scrutiny of a presidential campaign, and even his kids might have been muddied.



Editor's Note, 8/10/15: Four years ago, Wayne Barett reported shady business deals ahead of Trump's flirtation with a White House run. After first exposing Trump’s ties to organized crime in his 1992 book, Barrett looked into his most recent business dealings and discovered the following:


• One associate who was an "unindicted co-conspirator" in a massive 2000 stock swindle—and escaped prison only by helping to convict 19 others, including six members of New York crime families

• Two associates who served prison time on cocaine charges
• Another partner prosecuted for trafficking underage girls after a dramatic helicopter raid on a yacht off the Turkish coast
• A pending lawsuit against Trump Soho that alleges daughter Ivanka, among others, made fraudulent misrepresentations

“I had no idea I would get hammered in the way I’ve been hammered,” Donald Trump declared in New Hampshire on May 11, five days before he dropped out of a presidential race he never formally entered.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
Trump's alleged ties to New York and Philadelphia crime families go back decades and have been recounted in a book, newspapers and government records.



"The mob connections of Donald are extraordinarily extensive," New York investigative journalist Wayne Barrett told CNN in an interview.

Barrett, the author of the 1992 unauthorized biography "Trump: The Deals and the Downfall," wrote that Trump's life "intertwines with the underworld."

The allegations are getting new scrutiny as Trump runs for president, largely on his record as a successful, and extraordinarily wealthy, businessman. As Trump cements his leads atop the polls, questions about how he made his billions, and who helped him make them, are starting to take center stage.

To be sure, organized crime had ties to the New York and New Jersey construction industry in the 1980's and early 1990's, making contact between developers and mafia-controlled companies almost unavoidable at times.

"There was a certain amount of mob association during which the father and he were building, which was very difficult to avoid in the New York construction world," Barrett said, adding, "He went out of his way not to avoid them, but to increase them."
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 08:16pm PT
“I don’t settle lawsuits — very rare — because once you settle lawsuits, everybody sues you,” he said recently.

But Mr. Trump made an exception when buyers of units in Trump SoHo, a 46-story luxury condominium-hotel in Lower Manhattan, asserted that they had been defrauded by inflated claims made by Mr. Trump, his children and others of brisk sales in the struggling project. He and his co-defendants settled the case in November 2011, agreeing to refund 90 percent of $3.16 million in deposits, while admitting no wrongdoing.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
You're welcome, Esco.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
Racism reportedly runs in the family, when it comes to the Trump Klan.

Trump’s late father, Fred Trump, was arrested following a Ku Klux Klan riot in Queens in 1927, according to a bombshell report that further suggests unusual ties between the 2016 front-runner and the notorious white supremacist group.

Fred Trump Sr. was among seven men arrested following a May 30, 1927 brawl between members of the KKK and the New York Police Department, according to The Washington Post, which unearthed news articles from the June 1, 1927 edition of The New York Times.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 11, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
We get it. Trump's not your guy.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 11, 2016 - 08:20pm PT
Thanks to Obamacare , millions of Americans were able to afford health insurance for the first time ever.....If there are any shortcomings ( which there are some ) to this bill one only has to thank the spine- less , do - nothing replublicans for doing everything in their powers in making Obamacare fail... The " Keeping your own Doctor " urban legend is more of same National Enquirer information drivel being spoon-fed to and lapped up by the Escopetas of America..
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
We get it, President Obama is not your guy

We get it, Hillary Clinton should not be the next President

that settles it, this thread can be deleted
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 11, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
The Republicans could provide a public option to Obamacare tomorrow and the costs would go down by huge margins for Every American..

But they won't, they would rather all of us pay way more for crappy service, out of spite, out of being pure evil, and out of losing some crappy bribe they will receive from the private health care insurance Companies.

Obama would pass it w/o hesitation, why aren't the republicans reaching across the aisle for the American people?
Why? because they want you to Pay way more than you need to, so their funders can make billions in profits at your expense.

That's what you Republicans are voting for, your own fleecing.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
We get it. Trump's not your guy.

Craig Fry is like the Rain Man but instead of prattling on about "I'm an excellent driver" he just says "Trump's an excellent liar" "Wapner comes on at 5"
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 11, 2016 - 08:47pm PT
Just curious Esco, do you have a day job?
Norton

Social climber
May 11, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
I believe Esco is a college student in Alabama
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 09:13pm PT
I'm the left hand. But I wear a belt normally.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 11, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
Holy crap. I'm half way though and I'm crying.

That's was good. I like when Chris Christie throws down. Tfpu
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 11, 2016 - 10:30pm PT
40 Reasons Not To Vote For Donald Trump
John Hawkins | February 27, 2016

http://m.townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2016/02/27/40-reasons-not-to-vote-for-donald-trump-n2125585
dirtbag

climber
May 11, 2016 - 10:45pm PT
Only 40? I can easily think of 400 reasons.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
May 11, 2016 - 11:03pm PT
El Chapo as running-mate - ya feel me?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 12, 2016 - 05:09am PT
these Trump videos are funny as hell...

The Obama faces were so well done. Someone spent way too much time on that.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 05:48am PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 06:30am PT
You're welcome, Esco.

Why thank you.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 06:39am PT
Klimmer doesn't read my posts
Why should I read his?

I think the Arc on the Moon thread would be a better place to spew is anti-Hillary garbage

I'm still wondering about the Nazis that colonized Mars in 40s
maybe Klimmer can follow up on that and post some photos there

and there is a Hillary thread, which is the place to spew on Hillary

This is the Donald Thread, we should stay on topic
dirtbag

climber
May 12, 2016 - 06:41am PT
The movie is coming soon ...

Not gonna be good for Clintonistas ...


I have no doubt that all 9 people who bother to spend $12 and 2 hours watching it will be sufficiently outraged to triple down on their vow to never ever vote for Hillary.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 06:44am PT
Now what about those trump tax returns he won't show us

What is he Hiding????
It must be a bombshell

It's SOOOooo obvious that he is hiding something Big

and after pestering everyone else to show their "what ever"

he really comes off as being a total hypocrite

Some say that the tax returns show 2 things
He pays little or no taxes
and his businesses are failing

Which makes him a lying sac of sh#t LOSER

He reported that he is worth $10 billion on his Presidential nominee application that he signed under oath that was true
so if he isn't worth $10 billion, then he lied under oath.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 06:47am PT
Didn't Trump say he would release his tax returns when Obeezy shows his birth certificate?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 06:48am PT
just go away esco
now your just annoying

and to shut you up with some facts that you never seem to grasp
Obama did show his birth certificate

Obeezy did not
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 12, 2016 - 06:52am PT
Now what about those trump tax returns he won't show us

Now he's saying he'll show them. Then he will say he won't. Inconsistency is kind of his thing and trying to peg him for it is a fool's errand.

Craig posted
just go away esco
now your just annoying

and to shut you up with some facts that you never seem to grasp
Obama did show his birth certificate

Trolls aren't interested in facts, Craig. Stop taking the bait.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 06:57am PT
Sometimes trolls don't think of themselves as trolls

I'm sure esco thinks he's being a big part of the discussion, when in fact he is just an irritant sideshow
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 12, 2016 - 07:02am PT
Sometimes he asks earnest questions. Just stop reacting to the garbage and it will stop being irritating.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 07:02am PT
Obama did show his birth certificate

Oh, then I would say Trump should show his tax returns then. That was easy.

I do find it hilarious how you all interpret the word fact around here.

Like Apogee's Politifacts?




crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 12, 2016 - 07:07am PT
It's good Klimmer is here. He can provide insight into what drives a Trump supporter.
We can learn what goes into making a racist and a bigot.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 12, 2016 - 07:09am PT
Escopeta posted
Oh, then I would say Trump should show his tax returns then. That was easy.

because, you see, these things are equivalent and intrinsically linked and it's totally reasonable for us to see them as such and to take someone seriously who does not know if Obama showed his birth certificate or not.


Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
May 12, 2016 - 07:10am PT
``
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 12, 2016 - 07:27am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 12, 2016 - 07:30am PT
Serial posting much, Esco? Sort of reminds me of The Chief.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 12, 2016 - 07:39am PT
So uncivil. Don't they realize that people of all types and opinions are welcome at Trump rallies? Why all the hate? Trump will bring us back to a sense of traditional values where everyone knew their place and things weren't so confusing.
dirtbag

climber
May 12, 2016 - 08:06am PT
Pyro has resorted to posting Alex jones clips.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 12, 2016 - 08:13am PT
Yeah I couldn't make it to any violence in that video too damn boring took too long to unfold.


Serial posting much, Esco? Sort of reminds me of The Chief

Except the difference is the chief occasionally posted some interesting stuff

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 12, 2016 - 08:26am PT
dirtbag posted
Pyro has elevated himself to posting Alex jones clips.

FTFY
dirtbag

climber
May 12, 2016 - 08:28am PT
Good one!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 12, 2016 - 08:31am PT
Had to post some rally stuffsuch youth is on fire..


Whats with the tax stuff the donald already told us why he cant release.. case of creeping alzheimers..
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 08:39am PT
Serial posting much, Esco? Sort of reminds me of The Chief.

Who's the Chief? Is that the same person as Craig Fry?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 12, 2016 - 08:40am PT
"Now what about those trump tax returns he won't show us"


Funny that Rmoney has shown a light on this...didn't he catch a bunch of sh#t for obscuring his tax returns, too?

Or is it my Alzheimer's acting up?
dirtbag

climber
May 12, 2016 - 08:41am PT
And didn't Mitt also, at one time, kiss the orange haired birther's ass? Or is it my Alzheimer's acting up?
Norton

Social climber
May 12, 2016 - 09:28am PT
The Chief had it over Escopeta, much more obnoxious but about equal iQ and uninformed
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 12, 2016 - 09:36am PT
'Lying sonofabitches.'


Fixed that for ya.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 12, 2016 - 09:38am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
May 12, 2016 - 09:53am PT
His son has small hands too, so he compensates by trophy killing.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 12, 2016 - 10:18am PT
as long as he sticks with single stackers
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 12, 2016 - 10:30am PT
Trump tells lie after lie and Klimmer thinks he stands for the truth. Haha, you can't make this stuff up.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 12, 2016 - 10:34am PT
major asstroll
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 12, 2016 - 10:39am PT
Klimmer may be a troll, but he's so out there it's really funny.

He's almost like Trump. Trump is a horrible bigot, but he's such a clown that it's amusing. Much better than Romney who was about as exciting as a pile of dog poo.

I watched Obama's white house correspondents dinner speech yesterday, it was REALLY funny. I especially liked the line "Next year at this time, someone else will be standing here in this very spot. And it's anyone's guess who she will be."
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 12, 2016 - 10:51am PT
The proest of proclicks right here.
dirtbag

climber
May 12, 2016 - 10:59am PT
I give him sh#t but I think Klimmer has a good heart. He didn't know about trump's mocking of a disabled person because as you've probably noticed he only uses right wing or conspiracy websites for information sources. I bet he honestly hasn't heard most of the lies trump has told or any of his other loathesome actions described in any objective fashion.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 11:00am PT
dirtbag

climber
May 12, 2016 - 11:00am PT
I want a ram's horn!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 12, 2016 - 11:08am PT
Donald Trump isn't perfect. No one said he was. But he does stand for the truth.

Wow.


You probably shouldn't have started there.

I just couldn't read the rest. This is the guy who is batting closer to zero on Politifacts than any politician since Nero.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 12, 2016 - 11:14am PT
Just because he states untruths doesn't mean he's lying. Sheesh!
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 12, 2016 - 11:16am PT
Just checking in on the progress.... I was expecting at least 7500 posts... everything ok?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 11:17am PT
trying to get us there boss
dirtbag

climber
May 12, 2016 - 11:17am PT
Where does he stand on any issue?

I doubt his supporters truly know, he has flipped and flopped so often.

What policies would he pursue if elected?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 11:18am PT
still shakin' the tree boss
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 12, 2016 - 11:41am PT
This might get interesting:

Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has been linked to anonymous companies created by the Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca, according to documents released by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists known as the ICIJ, according to an NPR report.

The leaked documents show that the Trump empire is linked to 32 offshore companies, including the real estate project Trump Ocean Club International Hotel and Tower in Panama.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 12, 2016 - 11:45am PT
That guy looks like guyman!


Dang.... no sound... Looks like my Brother from another Mother!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Papa was a rolling stone.

full street value.
dirtbag

climber
May 12, 2016 - 11:51am PT
Guyman, you really should get a ram's horn.

Doesn't that look cool?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 12, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
The leaked documents show that the Trump empire is linked to 32 offshore companies, including the real est

And he couldn't help himself. Every one has Trump in the name.
Or these are JUST the ones with Trump in the name.
Rollover

climber
Gross Vegas
May 12, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
Norton

Social climber
May 12, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
Klimmer not trolling, does not understand the concept.

Klimmer is simply intellectually incurious and thus factual and truthfully bereft.

His very nature is inflexible and intolerant of changing, incapable of being open minded..

Much of this is tied up in his extreme interpretation and adherence to the Bible.

I remember him posting that his wife divorced him because of exactly that, and if Klimmer is reading this then please correct my memory if I have it wrong.

And I am not posting that to denigrate him in any way but to point out just how extreme and rigid his religiosity has invaded his entire makeup.

There is no volume of horrid things about Trump that can change his mind, like almost all the other Trump supporters it is more about being against a women being President than actually understanding and really liking what Trump stands for.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 12, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
Klimmer is NOT a troll. He BELIEVES what he says; Trump stands for truth. The problem is, history shows that Trump only stands for Trump. Truth has nothing to do with it really, unless is works for him. At the bottom of it all, Trump is a salesman selling Trump. It really is that simple. On top of that, I do believe Trump thinks he can help America. But as I've said before, we won't know which Trump we get until each negotiation is finished. Because politics IS (or should be) all about negotiation.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 12, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
Truth has nothing to do with it really, unless is works for him

And that's not 'true' for all of us? Any 'truth' expressed here, unless it pertains to science*,
is an opinion, period.

*of course, according to scientists the world was deemed flat at one time.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 12, 2016 - 12:33pm PT
"...I do believe Trump thinks he can help America. "

Though there is probably a shred of this in his motivations, by far the greatest driver for Trump in his quest is his gargantuan, narcissistic ego.

Of all of his life endeavors, this by far has to polish his knob better than any of them. His business exploits and reality TV show were no doubt gratifying to his ego, but there's nothing like politics, where the primary objective is to sell yourself and gain adoration to truly serve that narcissism.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 12, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
Trump thinks that anything that is good for Trump, is good for America. Anyone who doubts that is delusional. He doesn't give a rats a** about anyone else but Trump.
Norton

Social climber
May 12, 2016 - 12:54pm PT

On Facebook, Trump's Longtime Butler Calls for Obama to Be Killed
"This prick needs to be hung for treason!!!"

Anthony Senecal, who worked as Donald Trump's butler for 17 years before being named the in-house historian at the tycoon's Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach, has repeatedly published posts on his Facebook page that express profound hatred for President Barack Obama and declare he should be killed.

On Wednesday, Senecal put up a post that read:

To all my friends on FB, just a short note to you on our pus headed "president" !!!! This character who I refer to as zero (0) should have been taken out by our military and shot as an enemy agent in his first term !!!!!


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/trump-butler-anthony-senecal-facebook-kill-obama
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 12, 2016 - 12:56pm PT
Just because he believes it doesn't mean he isn't trolling.

Trolling is subjective but it's mainly to get a rise out of people. I guess most of us do it sometimes to some extent.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
That's like saying Joe Biden thinks he could help America.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 12, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
Esco, you have cool avatar graphics.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 12, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
JUST IN: New Poll Confirms What Liberals Have Suspected All Along: Drumpf Supporters Are Complete Idiots

-65% think President Obama is a Muslim, only 13% think he’s a Christian.

-59% think President Obama was not born in the United States, only 23% think that he was.

-27% think vaccines cause autism, 45% don’t think they do, another 29% are not sure.

-24% think Antonin Scalia was murdered, just 42% think he died naturally, another 34% are unsure.

-7% think Ted Cruz’s father was involved in the assassination of JFK, 55% think he was not involved, another 38% are unsure.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
Think about how smart the average American is and then come to grips with the fact that half of them are dumber than that.
Norton

Social climber
May 12, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
Think about how smart the average American is and then come to grips with the fact that half of them are dumber than that.

and where do you think you rank on the smart scale, Escopeta?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 12, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump appears 3,540 times in the ICIJ database. However, over the years Trump has sold his name and reputation to investors, meaning the appearance of his name does not necessarily link him to offshore accounts.

Nonetheless, he does appear to have some explaining [lying] to do.

Two big Hillary donors are on the scene also.

dirtbag

climber
May 12, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
Can we agree to leave klimmer's ex-wife out of this?
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 12, 2016 - 01:58pm PT
Hierarchy of voter intelligence:

Einstine
^
Average Joe
^
Bag of hammers
^
Fence post
^
Trump supporters
^
Amoeba
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 12, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
Amoeba

what do you have against Amoeba?!?!

Have you no respect man?!?
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 12, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
I stand corrected.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 12, 2016 - 02:16pm PT
Sorry Bro, it's Einstein. You just dropped down the list..........
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 12, 2016 - 02:20pm PT
now that's gonna leave a mark. Still probably smarter than a bag of wall hammers I suspect. Even your average Joe Plummer.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 12, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
Yep. I'll hang with the fence post...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
Who believes that Paul Ryan is now OK with Trump being their nominee?
and they will all find unity in their Party.

There'll one big happy family Now!
What a crock of sh#t.

every single Republican lies about everything just to put on a straight face
They should be called the Party of Lies.

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 12, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/sarah-palin-the-political-mother-of-trump/ar-BBsWpF8?li=BBnb7Kz
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 12, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
Another viewpoint on Trump

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 02:40pm PT
Can we agree to leave klimmer's ex-wife out of this?

It is certainly interesting watching Craig Fry show his ass by attacking the family/ex-family of Klimmer.

All the while castigating him for supporting someone as low-base as Trump.

The liberal ethos personified; do as I say not as I do.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 12, 2016 - 04:01pm PT
Well, I think it just shows how polarized the country has become, on both sides.

The question is, what to do about it?

I'm not talking about this election.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
let the Flip Flopping Begin!!

Don’t Let Donald Trump Explain Away His Muslim Ban As Merely A ‘Suggestion’

The presumptive GOP nominee is attempting to recast himself ahead of the general election.

Huff Post
 05/12/2016 05:56 pm ET

The presumptive GOP presidential nominee is attempting to sand off his hardest edges ahead of the November election.


As he shifts gears ahead of the general election, presumptive GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump has been busy softening his stance on a number of issues — including self-funding his campaign, taxing the wealthy, raising the federal minimum wage and cutting entitlement spending like Social Security and Medicare.

But perhaps the biggest — and most brazen — attempt to make himself more palatable to the GOP establishment and general election voters alike is his recent comment spinning his controversial call to ban all Muslims from entering the United States as “just a suggestion.”

“We have a serious problem, and it’s a temporary ban — it hasn’t been called for yet, nobody’s done it, this is just a suggestion until we find out what’s going on,” Trump told Fox News Radio’s Brian Kilmeade on Wednesday.

That’s decidedly not the way Trump and his campaign presented it earlier this year. Take, for example, a statement his campaign released in December in the aftermath of the terror attacks in Paris and San Bernardino, California.

“Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on,” the statement read.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
Now that Trump has been meeting with the Republican establishment

He will flip flop on everything he needs to do to get the funding he Must acquire to go on with his race.

So all this BS about being Independent of Big Money has gone out the window
Now Trump is a Neo-Con Koch droid.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 12, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
Now your F-ing lying ya loser

All I said was that Klimmer left his wife because they had different opinions

How is that attacking his wife and his family?

Do you have to Lie?
Do you have to be a complete a-hole?
Why show your ass, is it part of your conservative principles?

Keep up the lies, and you will end like the Chief, banned for LIFE.

and I will say this
I will never respond to another Eskochea post
they were right, he's just a troll
and a completely lame ass one

F-YOU
I will delete it all

Now what
I don't see SH#T

and your on my list now
as an underhanded backstabber

How tolerant of you.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 12, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
I like Klimmer. I've had immense fun with his 'Massive Ark on the Moon' thread (of which I have, really and truly, read Every Single Comment); most of us here are shaking our heads at the dissonance of his support for Trump and his religious views and have been trying to convince him of the reality of Trump, to no avail. Obviously, nothing is going to change his mind.

A while back I made a mistake with a personal attack in a comment directed at Klimmer regarding teaching; someone, I don't recall who, called me on it. They were right and I was embarrassed. I edited the comment and apologized to Klimmer for my poor and boorish behavior. There is no need for personal attacks. We each will believe what we will; some of us are more susceptible to absorbing new information and changing our views, but if someone isn't, there is no need for ad hominem attacks.

This comment is not aimed at anyone and is just a statement of my feelings regarding comments.
dirtbag

climber
May 12, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
And I have at least 300 hook marks in my mouth.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
This forum is full of trolls
that want nothing more than to destroy You, or me


I like Klimmer too
That's why I engage with him, I'm hoping that he could come around with reason

we just need some perfect "truthful info" that works to bring him around

he's not dumb
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 12, 2016 - 05:21pm PT
So your saying Klimmer is a "catch and release" guy. Ha! Good for him.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 12, 2016 - 05:23pm PT
^^^WTF ARE YOU ON,DUDE


EDIT; not you Skcreidc; Frybaby
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
Good grief. You show your ass and then get butt hurt when someone calls you on it. Wipe your mouth.

Thanks for giving us a glimpse into the hypocrisy of someone that engages in the very thing he spews about why Trump is such a bad person.


crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 12, 2016 - 05:30pm PT
Back on topic, the GOP leadership go all in with their Faustian bargain. No surprise.
Soulless ghouls.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/donald-trump-gop-senators-meeting
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
Well, I think it just shows how polarized the country has become, on both sides.

The question is, what to do about it?

I'm not talking about this election.


Less government is the ONLY way out of this. The reason people are so polarized is due to the fact that government is in every single corner of our lives. No other reason. The only way to control your life is through using the government to do it. As a result, these elections are critical for business, citizens and the elected elite.

this election has the potential of absolutely, positively making my life miserable. And yours too. And everyone's. So why wouldn't we be willing to fight over it?

If we continue down the path we are on, it will not just be digs and jabs on Internet forums. It will be much worse.

That's a reality a lot people recognize but don't want to talk about or recognize because it ends with more questions than answers.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 12, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
Klimmer hasn't posted since this morning, yet you guys are going on and on about him.

Looks like trolling to me.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 12, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
No worries BlueBlocr


This forum is full of trolls
that want nothing more than to destroy You, or me


I'm thinking it's more about entertainment to be honest. (Although I prolly just been trolled again)
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 12, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Less government is the ONLY way out of this.

Unfortunately, both sides have embraced an entitlement mindset. They both want the government to do their bidding.

Build a wall.

Keep out the Muslims.

It's not just about free college and transgender bathrooms.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
May 12, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
What does less government even mean? It Besides taxes I don't really think the government is really in my life all that much. Zoning? Building codes? Lots of regulating exists for good reason.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
Here's the problem

The trolls lie about you, then if you try and defend yourself,
they call you a baby

I guess babies don't like having lies posted about them, or personal attacks based on BS
just like mature adults

it should be entertainment.

My personality may bring it on
I will not lie, it's part of my makeup
I will say the truth no matter what

so I kind of expect it from others,
and I may overreact when I encounter lies

Being a skeptic even amplifies the condition, I demand proof if it's speculation
proof it's a lie, and I will call it out

I will never do it again, for now on
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 12, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
The way out of is to have growth in the good job sector causing the middle class to expand and be healthy again. Also, get the press/news outlets out of the hands of a few rich people and back into public service again. The more actual news and less nonsense people are fed the better.

Edit; rewarding someone for "bad behavior" doesn't make them want to stop generally. If they are trolling, they are looking for a response. Don't give it to them.


Edit2 VVVVVV With free speech comes responsibility to use it properly. Epic FailVVVVV
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 12, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
Sounds like Donald and his butler spent a lot of free time together...


BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 12, 2016 - 05:52pm PT

Klimmer not trolling, does not understand the concept.

Klimmer is simply intellectually incurious and thus factual and truthfully bereft.

His very nature is inflexible and intolerant of changing, incapable of being open minded..

Much of this is tied up in his extreme interpretation and adherence to the Bible.

I remember him posting that his wife divorced him because of exactly that, and if Klimmer is reading this then please correct my memory if I have it wrong.

NORTON

You seem to know Klimmers mind rather intimately. Mind telling us how?

And I am not posting that to denigrate him in any way but to point out just how extreme and rigid his religiosity has invaded his entire makeup.

NORTON


Huh.


maybe we all should practice reading our post back aloud before hitting send....
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 12, 2016 - 06:05pm PT
@ ontheedge..... I agree. I'm in the process of starting my own business and have had only helpful, responsive interaction at both the state and local level. Permitting was quick and easy, with only a few understandable issues in regards to traffic (I'm operating out of my house). For all those out there saying government is overly regulating stuff for small business I totally disagree. There must be standards of conduct for business; we use the infrastructure of the country in our operation so there should be and are reasonable restraints on sh#t.

On the other hand, as the winemaker at a fairly large facility I have had interactions with the State Ecology Department that left me thinking they didn't understand what was involved in satisfying their requirements. I won't go into details, but after having Ecology observe our permitted wastewater discharge procedure I was a bit taken aback when the Ecology guy expounded on what he thought I had written for the discharge permit and what I had actually said. What he wanted would have cost multi X $10k to implement. Fortunately, a short discussion and examination of the approved permit solved the matter.

So, yes, a bureaucrat may not see the total effect of their rulings, but we need control of things like water discharges, automobile emissions, coal plant emissions (for the older folks here think acid rain), mercury emissions, water quality, etc. etc. To suggest that government is the problem is BS. Why do you think the laws that exist came into being? Because businesses were shitting in our streams and it had to stop. Some sort of dreamy libertarian Ayn Randian future is NOT the solution; It would only make us find the lowest common denominator with each person for themselves. It's time to look for a solution that helps all the citizens of this country, not just the richest.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 06:05pm PT
Please

No need to clarify Norton's post about Klimmer's divorce!!!
Even if you have some more information that could clarify it...

Just stay away!!! it's off limits!!!
what ever you know.. just don't post it, right?
because the Trolls will use it against you

no one wants more info, they have all the info they need about Klimmer's divorce

because they will attack you if you remember what Klimmer said awhile back and innocently post it just for adding to what Norton said

are we good?

it's all about entertainment and laughs, right?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
I'm hoping Trump pick's his VP soon

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
I'm hoping you go back on your meds soon.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
Let's make a deal

You post exactly what I said about Klimmer's wife and family that upset you
and I will respond to it

That is how you debate,
insinuations of some BS is nothing more than trolling
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 06:32pm PT
Go lie down.

In other news.....

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
I'm looking for a huge pile of cash to lie down on
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 12, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
@ BLUEBLOCR.

In answer to your question, observation.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 06:36pm PT
It's time to look for a solution that helps all the citizens of this country, not just the richest.

Why does anyone need help? All you are doing is propping up one group at the expense of the other.

If that continues, the polarization of the country continues. The only way out is to stop looking to the government to be solution.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 12, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
Is privatizing the VA a tax cut for the rich?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
Trump met with the Republican Senators!

They are all in for the new Republican Party run by Donald Trump

They will all get in line with whatever Trump wants....
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 12, 2016 - 06:55pm PT

Less government is the ONLY way out of this.

When was the last time you've seen a politician make a move to REDUCE Gov.?

We experienced what "less government" means to Politician's, remember, they closed the Parks, they laid off Cops and Firemen, They reduced days for mail delivery. They paid some employees with IOU's. Ha!

Less Gov shouldn't mean less jobs and just closing down everything! The Gov isn't a business, it shouldn't be a business, and we should take all the aspects of business out of the politicians hands. We should put them on an allowance and allow them to regulate, from a distance. They can continue to write the Law, but that's it! Get the Fed's out of the Parks. Police, Firemen, etc, all privatized. Should be "if public funded, it should be public ran!" Governments only position should be to keep the playing field equal. The slippery part of that tho is many different unique environments we have around the country. That's where i have faith in the creativity of the private sector to provide models to their unique environment..

Any way you cut it, to get less Gov, you'll have to buy'em out!
zBrown

Ice climber
May 12, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
Does anyone realize that all the folks who want to require carrying your birth certificate around in order to get into the bathroom to pee, also support Trump?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
Blueblocker,

Buying them out won't work. I said less government is the only way out of the divided country we have. I didn't say it would be easy.

Instituting term limits at every level of government would be a start.

Requiring, under penalty of death, that legislators must live and play by the same set of laws as regular citizens is an absolute must.

Vastly simplifying the tax code and mandating a balanced budget/debt reduction plan is also critical.

But most of all, and this one is the biggie, 50% of the government workforce needs to go find work in the private sector. We absolutely can get everything we need done by government in this country with half the people doing it.

Without those "drastic" steps, our country continues down the path of divisive citizens and rich bureaucrats. And we take one more lap around the lip of the bowl.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 12, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
carrying your birth certificate

+ those who don't believe the President's birth certificate is real.

Looks like there's a few here.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 12, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
“Checkers died in 1964. Cocker spaniels don’t live long you know.”


Nothing new under the sun, Paul Ryan and sidekick visit Nixon at the hospital.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 12, 2016 - 07:15pm PT

They will all get in line with whatever Trump wants....

and what does trump want? i haven't heard, have you? Ha.

i think he wants the most he can get his greedy hands on. And he's willing to say and do antyhing to gain the highest bidder.

Thought you wanted the Gov to be run like a business? Well a Peter Pan type business anyway, the kind that steals from the rich and gives to the poor. Lol.

What is it that you want, you know, FROM the Gov?

The rich will only continue to get richer as long as the Gov continues to run our Public Services
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 12, 2016 - 07:26pm PT

But most of all, and this one is the biggie, 50% of the government workforce needs to go find work in the private sector.


The motivation should include to make more jobs. Take 70% of Gov's job's and privatize them and we'll surely be able to afford to ADD another 50% to those jobs.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
Not having a job should be motivation enough. If we cut the gov workforce, then look to the government to create jobs the only way they know how to do that is to, well, give them government jobs. Vicious circle that it is.
Norton

Social climber
May 12, 2016 - 07:45pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
May 12, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
That's a hell of a website locker.


U.S. Customs and Border Protection --> parent agency --> Department of Homeland Security

They're multiplying like those spiders chasing Steve McQueen

In order to renew my driver's license I got electronically fingerprinted 4 times.

BTW, I passed the test.






Norton

Social climber
May 12, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
May 12, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
I forgot - what was the name of that British Columbia island that was willing to take US refugees if Drumpf becomes president?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
How old are you? lol
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 12, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
Canada is putting up a wall
to keep Americans out
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 08:03pm PT
Will they take them when Hillary is elected? Oh wait, Canada is worse off. Nevermind.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 12, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
Donald Trump nabs billionaire GOP backer T. Boone Pickens

And exactly what value-added does T-Bones supply in the U.S. economy that he should have so much money?

Did he serve in the military?

Pickens' family moved to Amarillo, Texas.[4] Pickens never served in the military[4] but instead attended Texas A&M on a basketball scholarship, but he lost the scholarship[4] and transferred to Oklahoma A&M (now Oklahoma State University), where he majored in geology

Good match-up with Romney and Trump.


trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 12, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
I forgot - what was the name of that British Columbia island that was willing to take US refugees if Drumpf becomes president?

You have nothing to fear...You have Hillary. She is capable and smart, oh wait nobody likes her. But thank god for Bernie, but he is just so hard to take serious. He looks just like Larry David and is always yelling. Its like watching Seinfeld. You better remember that island in BC because I am pretty sure the white house will be changed to the gold house next year.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
And exactly what value-added does T-Bones supply in the U.S. economy that he should have so much money?

Your slip is showing....
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 12, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
I like Klimmer too
That's why I engage with him, I'm hoping that he could come around with reason

Did you hear the story on NPR (okay I guess I've outed myself as an "intellectual liberal" since I listen to NPR haha) anyway they reported on a study on how to change people's minds. The study was controversial with faked data. But they tried it again and the methods do work.

Basically you DONT reason with people. Their views are based on emotion. So you talk to them, let them know you, than explain how some thing in your life affected you.

They had an interviewer talking to a woman who was 100% against abortion. The interviewer was a young woman and after the talked a while explained that she had an abortion and it was a very difficult decision but right for her because she was too young etc. at the end of the interview the interviewee then said everyone should have access to abortion. Complete reversal. Wild stuff.

But of course it has its limits.

It's so heart breaking to hear of kids that get disowned by their parents for being gay, in love with a person from a different race or religion, or they just don't believe their religion anymore. Family is so much more important than religion IMO.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 12, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
^^^ I am really happy that you learned how to have a conversation with someone. NPR is great
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 12, 2016 - 08:45pm PT
escopeta listens to NPR when he isn't trolling or slaughtering fish and game...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
They got their LITTLE Trump hands in everything...

You are slackin'
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 12, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
It's so heart breaking to hear of kids that get disowned by their parents for being gay, in love with a person from a different race or religion, or they just don't believe their religion anymore. Family is so much more important than religion IMO.

Could it be that your only listening to the religious crowd? i think if you listen a little harder you'll hear just as many, actually there are more secular daddies heartbroken because their son smokes pole. A bias or predudice over homosexuality can't exclusively be left in the religious isle. the first step in the approach must be from an evolutionary standpoint. Hence in the deepest depths of our cell walls we are an organism built to procreate. Not standing up to meet that requirement is, welp, bias-able. By many.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 12, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
If not procreating is a cause for strong bias, then you have to show equal bias against 47.6% of all women in childbearing years.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, in 2014, 47.6 percent of women between age 15 and 44 had never had children, up from 46.5 percent in 2012. This represents the highest percentage of childless women since the bureau started tracking that data in 1976.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 12, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
I am a disgrace to mankind...

Well, yeah, but not just for that

< drumroll>
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 12, 2016 - 09:22pm PT
Escopeta seems to be really motivated today & is posting a lot.

However his post:


Buying them out won't work. I said less government is the only way out of the divided country we have. I didn't say it would be easy.

Instituting term limits at every level of government would be a start.

Requiring, under penalty of death, that legislators must live and play by the same set of laws as regular citizens is an absolute must.

Vastly simplifying the tax code and mandating a balanced budget/debt reduction plan is also critical.

But most of all, and this one is the biggie, 50% of the government workforce needs to go find work in the private sector. We absolutely can get everything we need done by government in this country with half the people doing it.

Without those "drastic" steps, our country continues down the path of divisive citizens and rich bureaucrats. And we take one more lap around the lip of the bowl.


is the same old far-right wing, dog-turd, stupid spew, that Escopita enjoys posting.

What strange-world, do those who post what Escopeta posts, live in?

Requiring, under penalty of death, that legislators must live and play by the same set of laws as regular citizens is an absolute must.





BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 12, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
then you have to show equal bias against 47.6% of all women in childbearing years.


well what was the population in 74 compared to 14?

those kinda facts need be relative..

If so that half the women of child bearing age aren't "producing"

from an evolutionary standpoint, i'd say it's environmentally provoked. Over genetic.

what might say you?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 12, 2016 - 09:29pm PT
Esco is overcompensating.

Not sure why, though.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 12, 2016 - 09:32pm PT
Have you figured out what Politifact does yet? Good grief
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 12, 2016 - 09:38pm PT
And what is the overhead of Medicare vs private insurance? Medicare is about 2%, private health insurance is about 20%. 'Nuf said.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 12, 2016 - 09:42pm PT
Your new avatar graphic isn't as cool as the Circle Jerks one.

And certainly not as reflective of our coveted polititard threads.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 12, 2016 - 11:03pm PT
The right likes to talk about the inefficiency of govt., but never say a word about the absolute killing overhead and profit of administering basic healthcare via for-profit health insurers and hospital systems. Their combined overhead and profits have restricted healthcare and produced a system so insane that most Americans live one catastrophic healthcare event away from bankruptcy.

And only a complete moron would decide the solution to obscene pharma prices is to allow us to re-import U.S.-exported drugs which sell for a fraction of our cost elsewhere in the world.

In general, infant mortality rate pretty much says it all and the U.S. is a third world country by that measure. It's embarrassing beyond words.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 13, 2016 - 01:47am PT
well what was the population in 74 compared to 14?

About A third fewer women 14-44 In 76.

The percent of childless women in the same group in 1976 was 35.1%

I don't think it was ever the case where all women bore children. Reasons cited for the difference were wage pressures and that a higher percent of women work now.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 13, 2016 - 04:51am PT
Back then, football protective gear, like helmets and pads, were hardly protective at all.

Trump’s battle helmet lacked sufficient padding, and might as well have been just a thin leather cap to prevent his scalp from being sheared from his skull during an especially spirited physical exchange.

The long-term effects of concussions were unknown, and champion athletes - like a team captain, like a Trump - would play hyper-aggressively with reckless abandon.

Football opponents would sprint towards each other head-first, colliding cranium to cranium at maximum velocity, with a wanton and almost suicidal disregard for such unmanly consequences as pain and suffering, injury and disfigurement.

The team captain, by definition, would be the guy who was The Best, and the type of guy who might study the masculinity rituals of big-horn sheep to improve his game-day performance.

Trump would crash concussively again and again into his opponent, both men equally crazed, foaming at the mouth, and eager to win the prize.

Naturally, this sort of primal contest of mighty flesh powered by lunatic will-power would cause head injuries, concussions, and later, brain damage.

A 1960’s military school football coach would have medically attended to an injured, semi-conscious, wobbly, senseless, dazed and confused player by yelling at him, "Shake if off! Get back out there!"



Only The Donald knows how many times he has staggered off the gridiron, in the wrong direction, tacking upwind like a sailboat, and hearing a faint, barely audible voice in the far, far distance (110 decibels and two inches from his ear) calling out, “Trump! Trump! Trump! What the hell are you doing? Get back out there!"
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 06:10am PT
Escopeta posted
Less government is the ONLY way out of this. The reason people are so polarized is due to the fact that government is in every single corner of our lives. No other reason.

Can you make these even just a little harder to disprove? I mean it doesn't take much thought to identify a myriad of reasons for polarization other than "big government." There are numerous times of extreme political polarization throughout American history and all of them were during times when government was far less intrusive.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 13, 2016 - 06:13am PT
B.C. islands: One biggie then a few medium to small



Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 13, 2016 - 06:22am PT
Just like anyone that supports Hillary.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 06:47am PT
Just like anyone that supports Gary Johnson.
Gimp

Trad climber
Missoula, MT & "Pourland", OR
May 13, 2016 - 06:58am PT
"The right likes to talk about the inefficiency of govt., but never say a word about the absolute killing overhead and profit of administering basic healthcare via for-profit health insurers and hospital systems. Their combined overhead and profits have restricted healthcare and produced a system so insane that most Americans live one catastrophic healthcare event away from bankruptcy."

The Veterans Administration is government run healthcare and no one who has ever worked there, or tried to receive timely healthcare there would ever call it efficient.

The real problem IMO is what seems to be over administration of healthcare no matter the deliver system. There often seems to be more administrators and nurse supervisors in any hospital environment I have worked in than people actually taking care of patients.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 13, 2016 - 07:11am PT
zBrown

Ice climber
May 13, 2016 - 07:22am PT
More kudos to The Trolls

Bidding in an online auction for the gun that George Zimmerman used to kill Trayvon Martin was up to $65 million Friday morning as Internet trolls appeared to weigh in drive the offers up to astronomic levels
splitter

Trad climber
HighwayToHell
May 13, 2016 - 07:39am PT
R U Peeplz Serious? If so, U R Being Seiously Deluded.

1 million seconds = 11 and 1/2 days.

1 billion seconds = 31 and 3/4 years.

1 trillion seconds = 31,710 years.

The U$ofA'$ national debt exceeds 19 trillion dollars.

If one million dollars were added to a fund each day startijg at the birth of Jesus Christ, it would take another 710 years to accumulate 1 trillion dollars. 365 million a year. That's more than 1 billion dollars every 3 years.

Um, did someone say that he would make the U$ofA rich again if he was elected?

This country is bankrupt. U aint got sh#t in yo bank accounts, homies. U R being played. I'll give U a hint. All this BullSh!t about Hagins going bankrupt and suing Albertsons/Vons, etc corporation for a billion dollars because of the 232 stores Haigens bought, yada, yada...! So Albertsons/Vons, etc corp purchases the 232 grocery last year...! Smokescreen. Look, ...nevermind.

All I got 2 say is this (MotherFu€kers know who they are)... "Uh oh, here comes Butch!" Lakeside 2 weeks ago wasnt sh#t. I simply made a point (once a again) HAMC DAGO U R Satan's lil' Bitch's and U R scared shitless b'cuz you know I'll be back.

Edit: BTW if, perhaps, Mexico were to agree to the financing of a wall, it would be to hinder a sudden onslaught of U$ofA'$ citizens flooding into Mexico.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 13, 2016 - 07:44am PT
Trump thinks the bathroom laws should be left up to the States, because we all know the States have been historically known for being good defenders of civil liberties.

I think we should send in 1000s of transgender people into these states and USE the Bathrooms that the State has determined to make them legally use.

So we will have Bearded Chaz Bono in the Women's bathroom standing in the stall next to you pissing.

And Caitlyn Jenner doing her makeup and hair in the Men's Bathroom

All because this was such a Huge problem in the past that they needed to have Government intervention to make it illegal (what about too much Gov. in their lives!!)

Except the truth being that never has there been an incident of transgender person that molested someone in the wrong bathroom

and if anyone molests someone in a bathroom, there are already laws against that.


No, it's another way to bring out the Christian outrage that our society has gone to hell, and something has to be done to keep those LBGT people from having equal rights.

Fear based politics, the only thing the right wing can use to manipulate the right wing base of idiots.


Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 13, 2016 - 07:47am PT
From our old buddy Mitt Romney's Facebook:

It is disqualifying for a modern-day presidential nominee to refuse to release tax returns to the voters, especially one who has not been subject to public scrutiny in either military or public service. Tax returns provide the public with its sole confirmation of the veracity of a candidate's representations regarding charities, priorities, wealth, tax conformance, and conflicts of interest. Further, while not a likely circumstance, the potential for hidden inappropriate associations with foreign entities, criminal organizations, or other unsavory groups is simply too great a risk to ignore for someone who is seeking to become commander-in-chief.

Mr. Trump says he is being audited. So? There is nothing that prevents releasing tax returns that are being audited. Further, he could release returns for the years immediately prior to the years under audit. There is only one logical explanation for Mr. Trump's refusal to release his returns: there is a bombshell in them. Given Mr. Trump's equanimity with other flaws in his history, we can only assume it's a bombshell of unusual size.


Time to get to work.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 13, 2016 - 07:49am PT
Ice cream, grocery stores, and bathrooms, yous guys are killing it!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 13, 2016 - 07:51am PT
Cheney said
"Reagan proved that deficits don't matter"

which equals, we need run up the Countries debt as high as we can because that free Gov. money is helping out my cronies.

We will use it against the Dems when they get in office.

It could be considered theft of Government funds by the Republican Party
zBrown

Ice climber
May 13, 2016 - 07:53am PT
Thanks splitter, but how do you figger?

Where in your calculations is the inflation multiplier? I looked, but didn't see it.



Number_wise? someone has posted to this thread 446 times. Likely second place 353.

The notorious Brown/Braun boyz have a combined 245 (160, 85).

I can't speak for Der Herr, but I apologize.
kattz

climber
May 13, 2016 - 08:16am PT
Trump thinks the bathroom laws should be left up to the States, because we all know the States have been historically known for being good defenders of civil liberties.

That's a good thing. This way, instead of tyranny of PC BS reigning over the country with nowhere to go, one can chose a state with laws of their liking.

I believe the states that would force businesses to allow cross-gender use of bathrooms should be legally liable and pay millions in damages (though such things can not be compensated in money) for any crimes committed by predators who'll put on women's clothing to gain opportunity to attack or harass women in the restrooms. There're already plenty of such cases.

dirtbag

climber
May 13, 2016 - 08:19am PT
^^^f*#k that.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 08:21am PT
Trump thinks the bathroom laws should be left up to the States, because we all know the States have been historically known for being good defenders of civil liberties.

The fallback position of moral cowards everywhere. You'll note he doesn't "think" that he retreated to it after he caught sh#t for his original position.
kattz

climber
May 13, 2016 - 08:24am PT
The left just wants to see little kids attacked in the bathrooms.... will make their day "triumph of human rights"...

because in their eyes, human rights are only to be had by certain classes of people

Transgender? The real transgender people will not be distinguishable from gender of their choice and won't raise any questions about bathroom use---they can also easily get documents with their desired gender stamped. The rest are just making sick choices, sorry, and should be fully responsible for them.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 13, 2016 - 08:26am PT
predators who'll put on women's clothing to gain opportunity

What's stopping them from doing that now?


"It's the economy, stoopid."
dirtbag

climber
May 13, 2016 - 08:32am PT
The haters always appeal to fear to rationalize discriminating against people who are different. Always. Always.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 08:35am PT
kattz posted
The left just wants to see little kids attacked in the bathrooms.... will make their day "triumph of human rights"...

because in their eyes, human rights are only to be had by certain classes of people

A totally rational and reasoned viewpoint that everyone should get really excited about.
kattz

climber
May 13, 2016 - 08:36am PT
While there're some legitimate transgender people out there, most of so called "transgender" in the US are just deluded, psychotic people who believe they are what they're not. They really should hold back and not make their personal issues a public matter.

If you familiarize yourself with the legal aspects of the process, you can see that almost anyone can get a "gender change" medical treatment, at least in the looney state of California. Most of those who "go through" are completely dependent on hormones and surgeries to maintain any semblance to desired gender, living artificial life, and return to their natural state, aka what they're born (not what they want to be), once hormones had stopped. (medical fraud lib doctors prescribe hormones absolutely without regard to long term safety and should be criminally liable for this).

And allowing bathroom use based on person's statement (and not legal documentation) is absolutely insane and opening doors for "Buffalo Bill abducted/filmed a child" cases.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 13, 2016 - 08:46am PT
Ever heard of the 'Constitution', kattz?

You should read it sometime.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 13, 2016 - 08:53am PT
Splitter, you have no idea WTF you are spewing.

"The financial position of the United States includes assets of at least $269.6 trillion (1576% of GDP) and debts of $145.8 trillion (852% of GDP) to produce a net worth of at least $123.8 trillion (723% of GDP) [a] as of Q1 2014."


We are far from bankrupt.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 13, 2016 - 08:53am PT
I'm sure it will be better with more regulation.

Because manufacturing problems that then get solved by more government intervention is the American way of life anymore.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 08:54am PT
kattz posted
While there're some legitimate transgender people out there, most of so called "transgender" in the US are just deluded, psychotic people who believe they are what they're not.

Oh yeah? And you're basing this on what, exactly? Your personal experience as a trans psychopath?



Escopeta posted
I'm sure it will be better with more regulation.

We all know that the real fix here is a large influx of generalizations, binary thinking and platitudes.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 13, 2016 - 08:58am PT
Ever heard of the 'Constitution', kattz?

You should read it sometime.

What's it say about anyone being able to go into the bathroom of their choosing?

One glaring problem with the Charlotte ordinance (that started this mess) was the only criteria for being transgender was an individual's say so. Most of the objections were about predators being given a green light to enter any women's restroom or locker room, not with transgender people.
kattz

climber
May 13, 2016 - 08:59am PT
Looks like decades of LSD use by hippie generation are coming to roost...

Some folks also think they're 'genderf*#k', 'genderqueer', 'gender neutral', etc ... well, it's their choice. Don't make it public bathrooms issue. Tomorrow they might decide they're something else, there's really no limit for spoiled kids who want to protest something because of family issues. Main thing is to have a big nanny government that will protect everyone's crazy whim.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 13, 2016 - 09:00am PT
When people's only source of knowledge is cut and paste from Wikipedia, its no wonder there's a dearth of educated voters.

If the US government had to report the current value of their assets similar to the legal requirement of how the evil corporations are mandated to report the value of their assets, you would recognize that the country is, in fact, on the brink of 'insolvency'.

But no matter, I'm sure the government will fix it. They've done such a bang up job so far.



EDIT: Exchanged the word bankruptcy with insolvency. Language is important.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 13, 2016 - 09:03am PT
"When people's only source of knowledge is cut and paste from Wikipedia, its no wonder there's a dearth of educated voters. "


Weak sauce little man.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 09:04am PT
You're an economist, Escopeta. Do the math for the rest of us Wikipedia pasting mouthbreathers.


kattz posted
Some folks also think they're 'genderf*#k', 'genderqueer', 'gender neutral', etc ... well, it's their choice.

That's exactly right. It's their choice. That's the first thing you've said so far that makes any sense. Turns out our insistence that there are three types of genders (male, female and shunned) is antiquated and wrong. 20 years from now nobody will give a sh#t.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 13, 2016 - 09:06am PT
If the US government had to report the current value of their assets similar to the legal requirement of how the evil corporations are mandated to report the value of their assets, you would recognize that the country is, in fact, on the brink of 'insolvency'.

But no matter, I'm sure the government will fix it. They've done such a bang up job so far.

Of course they'll fix it.

Just print more money.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 09:07am PT
Edward posted
Just print more money.

Remember back in 2008 when every Republican declared "if Obama tries to print his way out of this then we're all f*#ked and there will be a revolution and the economy will disintegrate?"



Heh.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 09:10am PT
Trump allegedly used to make phone calls to reporters impersonating his own PR agent to spread positive rumors about himself including that Madonna wanted to date him.


Ahahahahahahhahaahusidhsauhdoiusahdsanhdsa


The voice is instantly familiar; the tone, confident, even cocky; the cadence, distinctly Trumpian. The man on the phone vigorously defending Donald Trump says he’s a media spokesman named John Miller, but then he says, “I’m sort of new here,” and “I’m somebody that he knows and I think somebody that he trusts and likes” and even “I’m going to do this a little, part-time, and then, yeah, go on with my life.”

A recording obtained by The Washington Post captures what New York reporters and editors who covered Trump’s early career experienced in the 1970s, ’80s and ’90s: calls from Trump’s Manhattan office that resulted in conversations with “John Miller” or “John Barron” — public-relations men who sound precisely like Trump himself — who indeed are Trump, masquerading as an unusually helpful and boastful advocate for himself, according to the journalists and several of Trump’s top aides.

In 1991, Sue Carswell, a reporter at People magazine, called Trump’s office seeking an interview with the developer. She had just been assigned to cover the soap opera surrounding the end of Trump’s 12-year marriage to Ivana, his budding relationship with the model Marla Maples and his rumored affairs with any number of celebrities who regularly appeared on the gossip pages of the New York newspapers.

Within five minutes, Carswell got a return call from Trump’s publicist, a man named John Miller, who immediately jumped into a startlingly frank and detailed explanation of why Trump dumped Maples for the Italian model Carla Bruni. “He really didn’t want to make a commitment,” Miller said. “He’s coming out of a marriage, and he’s starting to do tremendously well financially.”

There are tapes of it! You can listen to them!!! This is amaaaaaaazing.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 13, 2016 - 09:11am PT
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econresdata/notes/feds-notes/2015/us-net-wealth-in-the-financial-accounts-of-the-united-states-20151008.html



Wow...under evil Obama wealth has increased.


kattz

climber
May 13, 2016 - 09:12am PT
"Miss" Jenner never had a problem to compete as male in Olympics, very publicly so. By all means, that's a dude who got a midlife crisis whim -- once the benefits of being male had waned, he switched gears hoping to get notoriety through some other means. This person does not remotely look like a woman, without very major medical procedures. I wouldn't be surprised if he quietly goes back to being male 10 years from now. All of this is a sad attention-scoring show, and definitely not any real case of a transgender person. Inside, one might feel they're a bird...or the King of England...may dress like one...it's their own issue not to be shoved onto the public policies.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 13, 2016 - 09:12am PT
Remember back in 2008 when every Republican declared "if Obama tries to print his way out of this then we're all f*#ked and there will be a revolution and the economy will disintegrate?"

Kind of like when every Democrat threatened to move to Canada if Bush was re-elected.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 13, 2016 - 09:20am PT
Libertarian bullshit is flowing today, no answers/facts just bash the government.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 09:23am PT
Ed posted
Of course they'll fix it. Just print more money.
HDDJ replied
Remember back in 2008 when every Republican declared "if Obama tries to print his way out of this then we're all f*#ked and there will be a revolution and the economy will disintegrate?"
Ed responded
Kind of like when every Democrat threatened to move to Canada if Bush was re-elected.

Haha, yes exactly. Funny thing: NEITHER OF THOSE THINGS HAPPENED! Damn, son. You just f*#ked yourself with your own petard.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 09:24am PT

Trump is just trying to expose the flaws in our campaign finance system. He's like Stephen Colbert's SuperPAC, just even more meta.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 13, 2016 - 09:25am PT
Liberal bullshit is flowing today, no answers/facts just put your faith in the government.

ftfy
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 09:27am PT
awwww. Escopeta is mad that the specter of big government doesn't win every argument for him like he imagines it will when he lays in bed at night arguing with statists in his head.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 13, 2016 - 09:38am PT
Haha, yes exactly. Funny thing: NEITHER OF THOSE THINGS HAPPENED! Damn, son. You just f*#ked yourself with your own petard.

Both statements were just BS lies. Silly hyperbole.

Sorry you missed that.

Whoosh!
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 13, 2016 - 09:39am PT


Just recieved my support Trump package in the mail...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 13, 2016 - 09:40am PT
"When people's only source of knowledge is cut and paste from Breitbart, its no wonder there's a dearth of educated voters. "

Fixed that for ya.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 13, 2016 - 09:41am PT
What is Breitbart?

EDIT: Do they have a lie of the year also?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 13, 2016 - 09:44am PT
Breitbart is a fact-skewing organization, Esco. Very different from PolitiFact.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 09:45am PT
Ed posted
Both statements were just BS lies. Silly hyperbole.

Sorry you missed that.

Whoosh!

Oh I see. So you were just ironically using a hyperbolic statement about printing money. I can't keep up with your mad 3D chess irony.



So am I the only one who thinks it's funny that Trump tried to spread positive rumors about himself in the NY press for decades? Really?
Norton

Social climber
May 13, 2016 - 09:46am PT
Just recieved my support Trump package in the mail...

it that ever cool!

you must be very proud

did you get an official Trump steak too?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 13, 2016 - 09:51am PT
Norton...Got my Trump kit yesterday...! Did yours come with the Ivanka centerfold...?
dirtbag

climber
May 13, 2016 - 09:52am PT
So am I the only one who thinks it's funny that Trump tried to spread positive rumors about himself in the NY press for decades? Really?

He's a weird guy. Quite weird.

And vain, too.
Norton

Social climber
May 13, 2016 - 09:52am PT

You All Should Not Take Me Seriously !

I Just Having Fun Playing Around With This Presidential Thang

Calling into "Fox & Friends," his final television hit of the morning, Trump was asked by co-host Brian Kilmeade about the response to his comment that his Muslim ban was "just a suggestion."

"Yeah. It was a suggestion. Look, anything I say right now, I'm not the president," Trump said. "Everything is a suggestion, no matter what you say, it's a suggestion."
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 13, 2016 - 09:53am PT
Again the American Taliban uses nonsensical fears to justify their bigotry.

If someone wants to dress as a woman and go commit a crime in a bathroom, a law about what bathroom to use with a minimal punishment is really going to stop them, yeah right. The law about rape or molestation leading to jail time is not enough?

It's all about their bigoted sensibilities being hurt. Boohoo. When you force a transgendered person to use the bathroom on their birth certificate it outs them and opens them up to harassment and bigotry. That's a real impact. Woman's rooms have stalls anyway, what are they going to see? What is the negative impact for the other people in the bathroom other? None. It's just an excuse to be a bigot.

Add: oh yeah there have always been and always will be gay guys in men's bathrooms. They're all trying to see your pee-pee right? LOL. Better make a law that says gay people can't use the bathroom. Hide your husbands 'cause they're raping everybody in here!
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 13, 2016 - 09:53am PT
Oh I see. So you were just ironically using a hyperbolic statement about printing money. I can't keep up with your mad 3D chess irony.

Whoosh, again.

Props for consistency.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 13, 2016 - 09:54am PT
Instead of a Trump bumper sticker can't you just get one that says "I'm a bigot!"
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 09:58am PT
Ed posted
Whoosh, again.

Props for consistency.

Damn, man. It's gotta be rough being that smart all the time. Nobody understanding what the hell you're talking about. Your replies being misunderstood because they're just so far out of reach. A sad, lonely world.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 10:09am PT


I can't imagine why women have such a hard time liking Trump?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 13, 2016 - 10:18am PT
So if you're in State without a "Bathroom Law"

Men are allowed to put on wig and go into the women's bathroom and harass women and children to their heart's content
and visa versa, women can grow a beard and come into the men's bathroom and watch me comb my hair.

Wow.. if I knew that this has been such a problem I would be in support of these laws

But the facts are of course otherwise
There are laws already on the books to make this kind of activity illegal

The whole Bathroom law specifically targets transgender people, they will be criminals if they walk into the wrong bathroom, which happens to be the one that fits their outside persona

It's pure bigotry, right wing persecution of the last minority group that hasn't stood up to them and beat them down yet.

The right wing is (and has been) on the WRONG side of every civil rights issue ever.
that's what makes them right wingers
they just can't help themselves from being inherently bigoted against those below them

But to have States implement bigotry into Law??
That's when the Federal Gov. has to step in and put a stop to it.


The Bathroom law has a lot more civil rights infringement than just the bathroom issues, all kinds of minorities lost their freedoms and civil rights with the new law

^^^^^
that comic is just unbelievable
So unpatriotic it makes me sick
Where do they come up with this stuff, Satan's workshop?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 13, 2016 - 10:35am PT
Locker, you forgot italics. lol
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 10:51am PT


This friggin election...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 13, 2016 - 11:02am PT
But it's there...

1/10
Coach37

Social climber
Philly
May 13, 2016 - 11:03am PT
All these "hate on trans people" laws, makes me wonder, what do these crazy conservatives want people with genital abnormalities to do? Like some people are "intersex", naturally, born that way. What bathroom do they get to use?

Has there ever been any case, any at all, where a trans person "molested" someone in a bathroom? I've seen no news stories, court cases, or even anecdotes suggesting that this has ever happened at all. Which makes you wonder, with all the problems we face as a country and in each state, why the hell are these politicians wasting their time with non-issues like this? Stupid.

How common are intersex people? Good question I think, so I looked it up.

"Not XX and not XY one in 1,666 births
Klinefelter (XXY) one in 1,000 births
Androgen insensitivity syndrome one in 13,000 births
Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome one in 130,000 births
Classical congenital adrenal hyperplasia one in 13,000 births
Late onset adrenal hyperplasia one in 66 individuals
Vaginal agenesis one in 6,000 births
Ovotestes one in 83,000 births
Idiopathic (no discernable medical cause) one in 110,000 births
Iatrogenic (caused by medical treatment, for instance progestin administered to pregnant mother) no estimate
5 alpha reductase deficiency no estimate
Mixed gonadal dysgenesis no estimate
Complete gonadal dysgenesis one in 150,000 births
Hypospadias (urethral opening in perineum or along penile shaft) one in 2,000 births
Hypospadias (urethral opening between corona and tip of glans penis) one in 770 births

Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female one in 100 births
Total number of people receiving surgery to “normalize” genital appearance one or two in 1,000 births "
dirtbag

climber
May 13, 2016 - 11:06am PT
It is appallingly stupid.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 13, 2016 - 11:10am PT
The Trans thing is no different than any other morality argument with .Gov.

Trust me, the government does not care what bathroom you use, they only care that we submit the power to them to decide for us.

While it would be easy to blame the LGBT community for doing the exact same thing they have been complaining about for years -which is using the government to validate their own brand of morality. Its also worth recognizing that since both parties are fully engaged in the fleecing of citizens' individual liberty, its pretty much the only viable avenue for change in their eyes.

Sad but true.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 13, 2016 - 11:16am PT
How can you tell a transgender person from a regular person?
Do you have to carry around your Birth Certificate now?

And what about people that just don't look like the sex they are, and don't care

Like "Pat"

or some diesel dyke

Cops caught on video harassing lesbian inside womens’ bathroom thinking she’s a man

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/cops-caught-on-video-harassing-lesbian-inside-womens-bathroom-thinking-shes-a-man/
Norton

Social climber
May 13, 2016 - 11:27am PT
Escopeta righteously cried out

Its also worth recognizing that since both parties are fully engaged in the fleecing of citizens' individual liberty, its pretty much the only viable avenue for change in their eyes.

give us a list of the "individual liberties" you personally have been fleeced of by both political parties as you claim

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 13, 2016 - 11:28am PT
Its also worth recognizing that since both parties are fully engaged in the fleecing of citizens' individual liberty, its pretty much the only viable avenue for change in their eyes.

?? This sounds like a word salad of Sarah Palin's.

Escopeta, can you sort something out for me - who, exactly, are you voting for President, and why?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 11:28am PT
Escopeta posted
Trust me, the government does not care what bathroom you use, they only care that we submit the power to them to decide for us.

Seriously, dude. Do you just wear a different beige suit every day? Or is beige too exciting of a color?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 13, 2016 - 11:35am PT
These Right Wing Red States Care

They care so much that they have to create these laws to put the Government in everyone's face, in the bathroom, in your bedroom

spying on you, reading your e-mail, listening into your phone calls

All right wing freedom killing policies.

Every hard right wing Government is obsessed with control over their masses
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 11:38am PT
The most important thing President Trump will do is to appoint John Miller as his Press Secretary.
dirtbag

climber
May 13, 2016 - 11:41am PT
God, I hope so!!!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 11:46am PT
Passive aggressive posting best posting never stop posting.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 11:47am PT
dirt posted
God, I hope so!!!

If he promises to wear a fake mustache and do this I will absolutely vote for him.
dirtbag

climber
May 13, 2016 - 11:48am PT
Coach: you made several good points.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 13, 2016 - 11:53am PT
"Its also worth recognizing that since both parties are fully engaged in the fleecing of citizens' individual liberty, its pretty much the only viable avenue for change in their eyes. "


The broken record continues to spin on.
Norton

Social climber
May 13, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
come on Escopeta

lets have this list of liberties that have been taken away from you !
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 13, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
Well, I can attest they certainly haven't taken Esco's freedom to spew on taco. Don't know about others though.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 13, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
He lives in a Red State,
I'm sure it's probably like Red China there

and it's known to harbor many right wing militia hate groups
so LGBT and dark skins walking in the wrong neighborhoods may be picked off sniper fire

As long as you're white and belong to the KKK, you'll fit right in,
and love all the liberties that they took from the others that don't deserve them
dirtbag

climber
May 13, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
Another flip flop, gcf. Journalists really need to start nailing him down.

Kerry got a load of crap for a perceived flip flop on the Iraq war. Bush I got nailed for flip flopping on taxes "read my lips..."

But this sneak flip flops on everything!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 13, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
edit with a newsflash: another Trump cheerleader might be headed for the hoosegow. Sheriff Joe Arpiao was found in civil contempt of court and faces a criminal contempt hearing at the end of the month

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/defiant-arizona-sheriff-found-contempt-court-39102680

Do you just wear a different beige suit every day?

Fifty Shades of Beige

and it ain't erotic, homophobic maybe

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 13, 2016 - 03:31pm PT
Trump is a fool. He will make nothing great again Klimmer.

Nobody ever answers when I ask which "great again" America they believe we will "return" to.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 13, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
Amateurish Klimmer, what next? Vince Foster?
dirtbag

climber
May 13, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
Ever heard of propaganda, Klimmer?
Norton

Social climber
May 13, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
you have to hate women in order to conclude that Donald Trump has higher "morals"
and is somehow less of a liar than Hillary Clinton

there just is no other explanation, even 10 year olds get it right
MarkWestman

Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
May 13, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/12/politics/donald-trump-butler-barack-obama/index.html

Anthony Senecal, who served as Trump's butler for 17 years and now takes groups on tours of the presumptive Republican nominee's Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach, Florida, wrote in a Facebook post Wednesday that Obama "should have been taken out by our military and shot as an enemy agent in his first term,"
Reached for comment by CNN on Thursday, Senecal, 84, confirmed he wrote the post, but disputed one point, "I think I said hung."
"Either way, I don't care. Hanging, shooting -- I'd prefer he'd be hung from the portico of the White House, or as I call it, the white mosque," Senecal said in a phone interview Thursday.

zBrown

Ice climber
May 13, 2016 - 03:57pm PT
Could be worse. What if they sent it back to Uranus?
dirtbag

climber
May 13, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
Klimmer, have you ever heard of propaganda?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 13, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
Klimmer...wrong again, for crissakes man do a little research .

"The author of “Clinton Cash” falsely claimed Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State had “veto power” and “could have stopped” Russia from buying a company with extensive uranium mining operations in the U.S. In fact, only the president has such power.
At the time of the sale, Clinton was a member of the Committee on Foreign Investments in the United States, which is required by law to investigate all U.S. transactions that involve a company owned or controlled by a foreign government. Federal guidelines say any one of nine voting members of the committee can object to such a foreign transaction, but the final decision then rests with the president.
“Only the President has the authority to suspend or prohibit a covered transaction,” the guidelines say."

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/04/no-veto-power-for-clinton-on-uranium-deal/
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 04:03pm PT
dirt posted
Another flip flop, gcf. Journalists really need to start nailing him down.

Kerry got a load of crap for a perceived flip flop on the Iraq war. Bush I got nailed for flip flopping on taxes "read my lips..."

But this sneak flip flops on everything!

You can't nail someone for flip-flopping when inconsistency is their hallmark. Trump's core convictions are "Trump win!" and "Trump best!" He holds all sides of every issue and let's his supporters use selection bias to fill in the rest. You're insisting that we demand integrity from someone who has none and his supporters think that's a strength.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 13, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
But...but...but Klimmer, Trump ADMIRES Putin so Hillary really is on his side, just helping a friend.

Do you really believe this crap? Are the Illuminati somehow involved? Are there aliens? Sorry, there are and Trump promises to kick their sorry asses out of the country.

Edit: And as regards to that cartoonograph of an atomic explosion over a city, that would actually be an air burst for maximum damage, not a ground burst. Height of the burst would be determined by the overpressure of the explosion. Bad cartoonograph Klimmer. I post this only because you are a science teacher and would want to get it right, right?

I quote Carey Sublette of The Nuclear Weapons Archive:

"When an explosion occurs it sends out a shock wave like an expanding soap bubble. If the explosion occurs above the ground the bubble expands and when it reaches the ground it is reflected - i.e. the shock front bounces off the ground to form a second shock wave travelling behind the first. This second shock wave travels faster than the first, or direct, shock wave since it is travelling through air already moving at high speed due to the passage of the direct wave. The reflected shock wave tends to overtake the direct shock wave and when it does they combine to form a single reinforced wave.

This is called the Mach Effect, and produces a skirt around the base of the shock wave bubble where the two shock waves have combined. This skirt sweeps outward as an expanding circle along the ground with an amplified effect compared to the single shock wave produced by a ground burst.

The higher the burst altitude, the weaker the shock wave is when it first reaches the ground. On the other hand, the shock wave will also affect a larger area. Air bursts therefore reduce the peak intensity of the shock wave, but increase the area over which the blast is felt. For a given explosion yield, and a given blast pressure, there is a unique burst altitude at which the area subjected to that pressure is maximized. This is called the optimum burst height for that yield and pressure.

All targets have some level of vulnerability to blast effects. When some threshold of blast pressure is reached the target is completely destroyed. Subjecting the target to pressures higher than that accomplishes nothing. By selecting an appropriate burst height, an air burst can destroy a much larger area for most targets than can surface bursts.

The Mach Effect enhances shock waves with pressures below 50 psi. At or above this pressure the effect provides very little enhancement, so air bursts have little advantage if very high blast pressures are desired.

An additional effect of air bursts is that thermal radiation is also distributed in a more damaging fashion. Since the fireball is formed above the earth, the radiation arrives at a steeper angle and is less likely to be blocked by intervening obstacles and low altitude haze."
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 13, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
Interesting article in the New York Times, 'Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?'

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/opinion/why-are-the-highly-educated-so-liberal.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region&_r=0
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 13, 2016 - 05:37pm PT
Well at least he said g-damn. Right, Klimmer?

http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/news/mark-cuban-says-donald-trump-is-a-g-ddamn-airhead-20160513
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 13, 2016 - 06:08pm PT
That's not Donald doing the terrorizing, it's his publicist, John Miller, the foremost gross materialist alive. Before that it was John Barron, who sounds a lot like Donald, too.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 13, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
So it appears he's got even MORE psychological hangups / turnoffs if you can believe it. Sheesh.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 13, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
Klimmer is Right!!

It's a bomb shell

Repent Now or ????
Trump isn't perfect, but who is??

Why won't you read all the many Koch Bro funded smear stories about Hillary???
Why would you even think of voting for a (fill in some BS scandal)!!!

Trump isn't a Liar, he doesn't break Laws like Hillary...


You just have to believe in magic
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 13, 2016 - 06:24pm PT
Don't vote for John Miller or John Barron!!!

What a wacko.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/donald-trump-alter-ego-barron/2016/05/12/02ac99ec-16fe-11e6-aa55-670cabef46e0_story.html

Edit: try this: ^^

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 13, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
May 13, 2016 - 07:02pm PT
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/donald-trump-alter-ego-barron/2016/05/12/02ac99ec-16fe-11e6-aa55-670cabef46e0_story.html

Well Jim, I gave 'em your email address and it worked fine.

I did really enjoy the Wells Fargo ad.



HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 13, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
Here's some real shit:

After Trump gets the nomination in Cleveland....












...he's going to be entitled to receive classified security briefings from the CIA!!!!











If that doesn't make your sphincter pucker I'm not sure what will.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 13, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
What happens if?

Trump drops ....
The Wall
Deporting all illegals
keeping Muslims from entering the Country

for the General
he says he decided not to pursue them

Then what?

Even better!
Or total sell out?

You have to remember he is a Republican, and he has been making deals with Republican Establishment Congress
zBrown

Ice climber
May 13, 2016 - 07:26pm PT
Jim. Can you blame them? You Nortenos do have a reputation for following orders, at least when there's a hundred of ya.

I can't remember exactly where it was, but I was asked to login after viewing a webpage once before, in order to view it again. I think it's here on the ST somewhere.

Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 13, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
Craig Fry! Hey! you are getting a little personal about my beloved Idaho.

May 13, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
He lives in a Red State,
I'm sure it's probably like Red China there

and it's known to harbor many right wing militia hate groups
so LGBT and dark skins walking in the wrong neighborhoods may be picked off sniper fire

As long as you're white and belong to the KKK, you'll fit right in,
and love all the liberties that they took from the others that don't deserve them


So------I will agree that Idaho is a red state, per my post earlier this
week. May 4, 2016 - 08:31am PT

Donald Trump could strangle a puppy on live television and he would still win Idaho and Mississippi

Things are just fine in Idaho, despite all the California right-wing Christians that keep moving here, & the 1/3rd of our population that is Mormon. (Good people all, but they mostly vote Republican).

The gene pool is somewhat shallow, but things aren't as bad as you imagine.

And Idaho will always vote for a Republican Presidential candidate.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 13, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
It's was just my usual jive
I'm sure there are a couple of cool people in each of the Red States

You and your wife being good examples from Idaho

But was I right about it being like Red China, right?
with State suppression of all fun and any liberal commie thoughts

according to sources, they enforce the thought police there


California isn't sending it's best people to Idaho, they're sending rapists, and drug smugglers, criminals... oh wait

It's Mexico that's sending those people,,
I get these crazy Trump stories mixed up sometimes
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 13, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
WTF???? This post has .... laughing my ass off. WTF????

Edit: Good luck Esco. The vampires have arrived. You are doomed, I say doomed!!!!!

We have devolved. We have become Klimmer. And his 'Massive Ass on the Moon'. Sorry, 'Ark'.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 13, 2016 - 09:09pm PT
The Hillary loons are being hit by tactical Donald nukes in their tiny weak brains ......

Genius...... GENIUS I tell you!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 13, 2016 - 09:22pm PT
Esco, there's plenty of that thoughtful analysis on the Mind & Science v Religion threads. Head on over, they'd love you there.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
May 14, 2016 - 05:07am PT
Trump & Hillary as front-runners?
We're totally f*#ked
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 14, 2016 - 06:15am PT
Here's your presidential candidate, Republican's, Donald Trump, aka John Miller:

The 217 People, Places and Things Donald Trump Has Insulted on Twitter: A Complete List
By JASMINE C. LEE and KEVIN QUEALY UPDATED May 11, 2016

Since declaring his candidacy for president last June, Donald Trump has used Twitter to lob insults at presidential candidates, journalists, news organizations, nations, a Neil Young song and even a lectern in the Oval Office. We know this because we’ve read, tagged and quoted them all. Below, a directory of sorts, with links to the original tweets. Insults within the last thirty days are highlighted...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/28/upshot/donald-trump-twitter-insults.html

After the taxes and Miller fiascos, every GOP politician and crony is likely wondering the same thing: Do I want to hitch my wagon to a campaign headed by this crazy nut job?

And Klimmer, seek forgiveness.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 14, 2016 - 06:59am PT
 Makd it tedoectable again

English teacher?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 14, 2016 - 07:00am PT
Insults? Hardly. I'm using Trump's own words.

I'll stand by Hillary's words. Insult and disparage her all you want, she's pretty tough.

We will get to know the Clintons very well between now and November and people will realize who they really are and get very disgusted with them.

HA! Trust me, they've had 25+ years of the likes of you going after them with 24/7 hate.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 14, 2016 - 07:08am PT
He has already said over and over again when you guys asked the question the first 500 times that Trump will evolve into a good person once elected and that everyone makes mistakes






























hopefully you are catching my sarcasm
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 14, 2016 - 07:09am PT
If you want to disparage Hillary
You can do it all you want over on the Hillary thread

If you do it here, we will completely disregard it as pure BS lies

and then go back to disparaging Donald Trump as hard as we can, which is what this thread is for

Is that so hard to figure out?
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 14, 2016 - 07:21am PT
Why would the current Presidency be trying to protect her? 

Backing up a teammate?

I know how it works I've seen West Wing
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 14, 2016 - 07:33am PT
Obviously, Klimmer doesn't even read a single word that we post.

That's an indication of One thing
He's Trolling

Defend Trump if you want

But please stop spewing blatant Lies about the Clintons
Everything you post about them is right wing billionaire funded BS smear that have been shown to be complete BS

We know all about the Clintons
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 14, 2016 - 08:00am PT
If you want to talk about Hillary

The question is, if you don't like Trump

Then how can anyone be so stupid to not vote for Hillary?

It shows a basic lack of knowledge of how politics works.

There will be only 2 options, a Repub (Trump) and a Dem

So if you don't vote for the Dem, which is Hillary, then you are by default voting for the Repub.

Which just proves that your just a selfish ideologue with a rod up your butt.
and you are too selfish to think of anyone besides yourself, you don't care what may happen to others that will suffer more.
that's my opinion .
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 14, 2016 - 08:02am PT
Klimmer, I ran across this quote the other day:

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."

    Thomas Jefferson
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 14, 2016 - 09:09am PT
I've been had. Klimmer is invented. Very clever scam.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 14, 2016 - 09:10am PT
Mrs. Clinton had no say in the approval for the Uranium deal

It was approved by the State and DOE.

So in other words, just another BS smear
and another notch against Klimmer

seems alittle treasonous to lie about the Next President


conned into believing

that's what con men do
And Trump is a master of the game
Norton

Social climber
May 14, 2016 - 09:16am PT
I can see why the only way to support him, other than being a hate filled bigot, is being conned into believing his opponent is the devil.

it is easy to support Trump when you are blinded by your hatred of women
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 14, 2016 - 09:20am PT
"troll me once shame on you, troll me twice shame on me"

Just answer me this. Did little Donald cry when he watched "Old Yeller"? That's all I need to know to know if I will vote for him.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 14, 2016 - 09:26am PT
zBrown

Ice climber
May 14, 2016 - 09:52am PT
Feed your children well, lest they grow up to be cuckoo.


fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 14, 2016 - 10:06am PT
Only 7600 posts? This thing had legs man, now nothing. Slackers.... slackers all around...

So hypothetical question, based on likely probabilities:

So when Donald is appointed president in November, what are all of the Hillary fanatics (all four or five), going to do?




Norton

Social climber
May 14, 2016 - 10:13am PT
fear not, fear

for they will book passage to Canada
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 14, 2016 - 10:20am PT
LOL ^^^^^
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 14, 2016 - 10:36am PT
Profile of the Sociopath

This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.


Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 14, 2016 - 10:53am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ TRUMP



The NY Times is running an article on how Trump treats women in private, as opposed to how he denigrates and insults them in public.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/us/politics/donald-trump-women.html



Needless to say, his behavior is worse in private, when he thinks nobody is paying attention. Trump is a very disturbed individual.


Many of Trump's sociopathic traits are apparent in the article.

skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 14, 2016 - 11:04am PT
^^^^ He certainly does seem to match much, if not most, of the above description Tom. That suggests he would have NOT cried watching Old Yeller. I actually am kind of curious.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 14, 2016 - 11:05am PT
 adheres to its enemies by giving them Aid and Comfort has committed treason within the meaning of the Constitution.


We give the enemy wounded aid and comfort in combat are American soldiers treasonous?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 14, 2016 - 11:09am PT
Needless to say, his behavior is worse in private, when he thinks nobody is paying attention. Trump is a very disturbed individual.


Many of Trump's sociopathic traits are apparent in the article.

im so glad TOm the dickhead has and been to Trumps house to give us this above great quote! your a joke dude.. NY liberal times.. duh..
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 14, 2016 - 11:27am PT


Im ready4TRUMP!
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 14, 2016 - 11:30am PT
Gotta thank the Trump supporters. With Hillary and all her baggage and after 8 years of a Deomcrat the whitehouse should've gone to a Rebublican. But thanks to all the bigots they are nominating someone worse than Hillary so they will get her elected. I'm no fan of most Democrats or Hillary but they/she are a much lesser evil.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 14, 2016 - 11:42am PT
Klimmer, you better contact the big guy upstairs...the numbers just don't add up for your man.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/general-election-will-prove-daunting-for-trump/2016/05/14/ef865dda-1982-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html?

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 14, 2016 - 12:03pm PT
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
May 14, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
Love the Repubs pictured above.


Saving my money up for when Trump crashes the economy.


People who want to stop the flow of cheap foreign goods and send the hard working immigrants back home can't see that this is what is driving prosperity in this country.

Yes immigrants should be legal.
Yes we need to make sure that trade is balanced.

But we can't just slam it right. I has to be solved in a way the does not burst the bubble.



Norton

Social climber
May 14, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
The NY Times is "liberal"

No media outlet supported Bush's Iraq invasion more.

Are you ever right about anything...
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 14, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
Saving my money up for when Trump crashes the economy.

Gold, dude.


Your money won't be worth anything.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 14, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
Trump/Klimmer 2016!!







Make America Great Again!

Native American Council offers amnesty to 220 million undocumented whites


A council of Native American leaders has offered partial amnesty to the estimated 220 million illegal white immigrants living in the United States. The "white" problem has been a topic of much debate in the Native American community for centuries, and community leaders have decided the time has come to properly address it.*

Daily Currant reports, "At a meeting of the Native Peoples Council (NPC) in Albuquerque, New Mexico yesterday, Native American leaders considered several proposals on the future of this continent's large, unauthorized European population. The elders ultimately decided to extend a pathway to citizenship for those without criminal backgrounds."


"We are prepared to offer White people the option of staying on this continent legally and applying for citizenship," explains Chief Wamsutta of the Wampanoag nation. "In return, they must pay any outstanding taxes and give back the land stolen from our ancestors.

"Any white person with a criminal record, however, will be deported in the next 90 days back to their ancestral homeland. Rush Limbaugh will be going to Germany. Justin Bieber will depart for Canada. And the entire cast of Jersey Shore will be returning to Italy."

Illegal white immigration has been rapidly increasing for nearly 400 years from the European countries of France, Spain and England. These illegals have ravished the land and colonized areas occupied by the natives.

Some white supporters claim the immigrants are a blessing, arguing that they take all of the menial white-collar jobs that the natives don't even want. 'What native would want to have a cushy salary and a corner office as an accountant, or the excess of power as senator or fortune-500 CEO,?' they claim.



Others are not so forgiving. "Why can't we just deport all of the Whites back to Europe?" asks Ité Omácau of the Lakota people. "They're just a drain on our economy anyway. They came over here to steal our resources because they're too lazy to develop their own back home... I can't believe we're just going to let them pay a fine. They should get to the back of the line like everybody else -- behind the Mexicans."
Norton

Social climber
May 14, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
The only way to get all them illegal white people out of here is to ask them to "self deport"

why not, it worked well when Mitt Romney suggested it
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 14, 2016 - 02:00pm PT
We are prepared to offer White people the option of staying on this continent legally and applying for citizenship," explains Chief Wamsutta of the Wampanoag nation. "In return, they must pay any outstanding taxes and give back the land stolen from our ancestors.

Wamsutta was the son of chief Massasoit of the Wapanoag. He was imprisoned by the pilgrims for selling Wapanoag land to people other than pilgrims. He died shortly after his release and the Wapanoag thought he was poisoned, which was a cause for King Philip's war.


No word on whether his namesake considers the lawful purchasers of the land among the 220 million squatters.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
May 14, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
Your money won't be worth anything.

so Trump could make America great again like in the great depression?

Sweet! We can all sit around the campfire eating canned beans and singing Woodie Guthrie songs.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 14, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
Looks like pryo has that Trump/Miller sticker scotch taped on. Smart move the way things are going.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 14, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
We can all sit around the campfire eating canned beans and singing Woodie Guthrie songs.
Sounds like Camp 4. We should be used to it.

The 99%ers anthem.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 14, 2016 - 06:09pm PT
What is the 1% anthem I wonder....
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 14, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]


EDIT: BOOM!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 14, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
Ready for Donald to exit in November...http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/05/14/just-in-new-wapost-electoral-map-predictions-show-results-that-have-everyone-looking-twice/
zBrown

Ice climber
May 14, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
Don't sheeit in your pants, but Trump ain't gonna tap Perry after all.

Trump-Gingrich in 2016. Holy fukkkn cow.

Look ma, big hands?

Mine is biggern yours, Donny boy
-Newt

zBrown

Ice climber
May 14, 2016 - 06:37pm PT
For Jim B.
**
Every four years, terrified by a potential president, many Americans roll out a well-worn pronouncement: "I'm moving to Canada!"

A Trump presidency has Americans looking north

You better be hoping that's "north to Alaska"



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36260099


Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 14, 2016 - 06:52pm PT
Mexican Socket Set
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 14, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
Bill Mayer
How you would explain it to a child
"It's between a crazy person and a nice lady"
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 14, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
He owns a crescent wrench ......

lol!

must be a pretty small one for those hands. might twist a 1/2" nut. or blow one (that makes little sense)
zBrown

Ice climber
May 14, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
If Trump wasn't so anti-nigra, he's go straight for Dr. J., who has made a lot of money legitimately. Ain't no hand jive.


Julius actually used his hands.


A Bird in his hands, is worth George in the Bush.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 14, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
I highly recommend Carly for VP !
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 15, 2016 - 05:59am PT
Sometimes a spade is a spade.


Here’s the Real Reason Everybody Thought Trump Would Lose

Why did almost everybody fail to predict Donald Trump’s victory in the Republican primaries? Nate Silver blames the news media, disorganized Republican elites, and the surprising appeal of cultural grievance. Nate Cohn lists a number of factors, from the unusually large candidate field to the friendly calendar. Jim Rutenberg thinks journalism strayed too far from good old-fashioned shoe-leather reporting. Justin Wolfers zeroes in on Condorcet’s paradox. Here’s the factor I think everybody missed: The Republican Party turns out to be filled with idiots. Far more of them than anybody expected.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 15, 2016 - 06:13am PT
^^^That is a great strategy to win, just believe that your opponents are idiots and clearly less capable than you. I think that might the strategy in Afghanistan for the last thirty years
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 15, 2016 - 06:20am PT
Who said anything about strategy?
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 15, 2016 - 06:35am PT
I suppose that didn't make any sense. The point, that I failed to make, is believing that your opponents are idiots may blind you from the what is really going on.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 15, 2016 - 06:45am PT
Believing they are idiots and watching them empirically demonstrate it are two different things. Your point is well taken, however.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 15, 2016 - 07:26am PT
I've switched my allegiance to Joey Pepperoni...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 15, 2016 - 07:56am PT
Trump caught lying again...

Crossing the Line: How Donald Trump Behaved With Women in Private

Interviews reveal unwelcome advances, a shrewd reliance on ambition, and unsettling workplace conduct over decades.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/us/politics/donald-trump-women.html?_r=1
Norton

Social climber
May 15, 2016 - 08:05am PT

The Idiocy of Trump Voters

Most voters don’t follow politics and policy for a living, and it’s understandable that they would often fall for arguments based on faulty numbers or a misreading of history

. But a figure like Trump is of a completely different cast than the usual political slickster. He is several orders of magnitude more clownish and uninformed than the dumbest major-party nominee I’ve ever seen before. (That would be George W. Bush.)

As low as my estimation of the intelligence of the Republican electorate may be, I did not think enough of them would be dumb enough to buy his act. And, yes, I do believe that to watch Donald Trump and see a qualified and plausible president, you probably have some kind of mental shortcoming.

As many fellow Republicans have pointed out, Donald Trump is a con man. What I failed to realize — and, I believe, what so many others failed to realize, though they have reasons not to say so — is just how easily so many Republicans are duped.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/05/heres-the-real-reason-we-all-underrated-trump.html
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 15, 2016 - 08:16am PT
As many fellow Republicans have pointed out, Donald Trump is a con man. What I failed to realize — and, I believe, what so many others failed to realize, though they have reasons not to say so — is just how easily so many Republicans are duped.

Apparently, the major definition of a Republican voter is being easily duped by con men
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 15, 2016 - 08:21am PT
Looks like pryo has that Trump/Miller sticker scotch taped on. Smart move the way things are going.

nice ASSumption crankloon but your WRONG.. things are going really good.

I have to remove the trump sticker as a safety precaution when surfing the shores of OXNARD.. yeah the NARD is full of angry Mexicans..
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 15, 2016 - 08:24am PT
No wonder you like Trump so much
he will clean up the NARD of those brown people

then you can keep your Trophy Trump Bumper sticker on your truck in peace
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 15, 2016 - 08:24am PT
So, pyromaniac, ya put it back on at the cross burnings, yes?

Yeah, Trump/Miller/Pepperoni had a great week. Just slightly better press than George Zimmerman.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 15, 2016 - 08:31am PT
Apparently, the major definition of a Republican voter is being easily duped by con men.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 15, 2016 - 08:44am PT
It's just the future of the planet at stake.

Others like to argue religion vs. science. In perpetuum.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
May 15, 2016 - 08:44am PT
the NARD is full of angry Mexicans..

I wonder why?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 15, 2016 - 08:59am PT
^^^ you say that like you ain't in it with the rest of us. if only the earth could purge the nutcases selectively.

or maybe you just admitted you are from Mars ;-)
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 15, 2016 - 09:01am PT
Others like to argue religion vs. science. In perpetuum.

It's just the future of global health and wellbeing at stake.

Or else (high) civilization.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 15, 2016 - 09:06am PT
so where did you evolve from, Heir Braun?


enquiring minds want to know.


And I say we give it back to the apes. We'd be much better off on some levels. Oh wait, that's what these Drumpf supports are trying to do.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 15, 2016 - 09:07am PT
Nothing but stupid monkeys running it ......

Not yet.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 15, 2016 - 09:08am PT
Werner wrote: You guys all evolved from monkeys.


Same as you too, unless you are trying to prove the point that you are an alien??
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 15, 2016 - 09:09am PT
we're so close to getting the truth bob... so close.


And last I checked he's also an American. Not sure how that plays out with the stupid American comments. Or, well...
zBrown

Ice climber
May 15, 2016 - 09:54am PT
Two headless bodies found in South Texas pickup truck. Perry under immediate suspicion.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 15, 2016 - 10:49am PT
I heard Donald is courting Ted Nugent as a possible VP pick.....
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
May 15, 2016 - 11:07am PT
You guys all evolved from monkeys

Or maybe monkeys evolved from you. Ever cosider that? Pretty sure humans will extinct themselves before they do.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 15, 2016 - 11:13am PT
They're baaaaaaak, Perry exonerated in killing, not exonerated in brain death at birth charge.
-Joe Birther

Daphne

Trad climber
Northern California
May 15, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
Donald Trump is so repulsive-looking. Whether he's pouting his lips or doing that weird fake grin, His Orangeness turns my stomach. And he's repulsive inside too, a narcissistic egomaniac. I am stunned that my country has reached this nadir. This must have been how the Romans felt just before their empire crashed and burned.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
May 15, 2016 - 12:45pm PT
The planet will be just fine without you nutcases ......

Unfortunately, the planet won't be fine with you nutcases...
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 15, 2016 - 01:12pm PT
Funny all you st noobs going off on Klimmer.

If you think he's whack about politics you should've been here
3-5 years ago to read him. His batshit crazy in politics pales to his batshit crazy in religion.

At some point you just have to let it go.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 15, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
Maybe Klimmer is the sane one.

Did someone say f-ing Ted Nugent?

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 15, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
HFCS is spot-on on that point.

And this is where greasemonkey comes in handy.

And whoever pointed out up thread that he shouldn't be teaching kids is also spot-on. Science teacher.... LOL
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 15, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
I'm no fan of Barry but if anything I think he might have helped to stall some of the outright murderous aggression in the Middle East. I think the neocons/Israel/SA would have zealously started WWWIII in Syria the first time around had Barry not been there. You can kinda see it in his eyes now, the hopelessness, something a true sociopath wouldn't have. A narcissistic puppet for sure but probably has a tiny bit of a soul somewhere. Still he read the teleprompters though perhaps since he didn't want to star in the next Zapruder film.

Hillary has no soul, a true sociopath that simply follow orders verbatim and will do so setting the world ablaze, abroad and here. Syria first then Iran.

Trump is a sideshow clown who really doesn't want the job. An entertainer first with himself as the product. Secondly he plays a small-time real-estate crook. I doubt he wants much to do with murder and genocide as the chief puppet job demands.

It makes for good circus though. Like a 4 car pileup in flames... you know you're going to look.





nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 15, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
Imagine if you will for a moment - Drumpf wins the job. two plus years into it he realizes he's way over his head and he is failing miserably. A guy with a huge ego (about the only reason he's running) and he's about to fail worse than shrub. Maybe he puts a gun to his head because he has no way to handle being that utter of a failure.

Short term is if he is elected and doesn't start WWIII he'll just destroy the GOP and in the long run the progressives will win out and the regressives will be a dying breed. So there is a bit of upside to the catastrophe known as Drumpf.

He won't unite anything. He'll make this country even more divided than ever before. And he'll hand the house, senate and presidency over to the left for many many years to come.

Think about this - he's running in part on a platform of pointing out how corrupt washington is. He's not wrong on that. So to fix that what do you do? You clean house. So let me get this straight - he's trying to unite a party around him with said party being all those that are about to get cleaned out. Why would any of those bought off shills want to unite around someone who wants their head on a platter?

The pendulum swings back and forth and always will. A Drumpf presidency would have the right side of the pendulum set up with one ball pulled 90 degrees out. WHACK swinging it so far to the left the GOP would finally be gone as we know it. Maybe it revives itself as the party of Lincoln and that would be good. But the regressive, denier, imaginary friend in the sky party needs to go. It's toxic and stands for everything this country is knot.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 15, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
I just re-read Klimmer's post, and I guess I should be on the "retarded" bus too, because I agree with this post;
You guys and gals make up so much Bovine Dung it's ridiculous.

Why did Donald Trump take the Republican Primary? Because he is bringing in Democrats, Independents, and Republicans. People are waking up to the fact that the USA is not doing so well. You all know it. It's not as great as it used to be. People are hurting. The economy isn't doing so well. And morally we are headed to Hades on the fast track.

Thank you Obama. You really did change the USA, but for the worst. What moral decadence he has driven this nation into. He had an agenda from the very beginning. He knew what he was going to do. He lied to us. Our military is demoralized as a result.

And there's The Clinton Foundation selling out our nation making unbelievable profits by bringing in foreign nation monies for behind the scene State Department benefits and favors. Helping to sell our Uranium to Russia.

Pull your heads out of the sand people. Seriously.

What man hasn't been attracted to beatiiful women? Wow, so Donald Trump is an all American red blooded male and sometimes thinks with his other head. What man doesn't? You really want to throw rocks at Donald Trump? Wait till we get an earful of womanizing Bill Clinton again. Hillary enabled him him and continues to do so.


If a right-winger used the term "retarded" there would calls to ban him/her. Just sayin'... (I got no problems with the term tho)

EDIT:
He won't unite anything. He'll make this country even more divided than ever before. And he'll hand the house, senate and presidency over to the left for many many years to come.

Didn't know you cared so much for the welfare of the GOP, Doug.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 15, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
Drumpf = EGOMANIAC FRAUD HUCKSTER SNAKEOIL SALESMAN FEAR MONGER
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 15, 2016 - 02:14pm PT



Klimmer

Mountain climber

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
Well if the evidence is true, and the many eye witnesses are not lying, then it isn't moronic. They're here. It's true.

The fact that you can't wrap your head around that and you can't understand the physics of it all, doesn't matter. Doesn't mean it's not real.

Perhaps one of the best documentaries out there for understanding the UFO phenomenon and getting your head out of the sand ...
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 15, 2016 - 02:17pm PT




So, pyromaniac, ya put it back on at the cross burnings, yes?

you and dirtbag are obsessed with hatred etc..
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 15, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
klimmer posted
(at least he has a beautiful wife now and shouldn't stray) ...

I don't think you "get" adultery...
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 15, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
One for you, Nature.

Can I snuggle with you?

http://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/4j8p6d/can_i_snuggle_with_you/

Comments really good.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 15, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
divad

Trad climber
wmass
May 15, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
At least he has a beautiful wife now and shouldn't stray



"Show me the most beautiful woman in the world and I'll show you someone who is tired of f*#king her." Chris Rock
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 15, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
Cynicism is cheap.
Norton

Social climber
May 15, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
(at least he has a beautiful wife now and shouldn't stray) ...

now?

he had a beautiful wife and children with the first three wives

duh
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 15, 2016 - 03:02pm PT
Con Man's prey

Lunkhead, dunce, dupe, take, sucker, stooge, gullible, loser, ninny, nincompoop, chowder head, gulls, mark, dim wit

retarded isn't on the list



quoting stories written by Roger Stone, a professional lying hit man from the dark side, Mr. Dirty Tricks.

Meet Roger Stone: Possibly The Most Dangerous Man In Politics

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/04/14/meet-roger-stone-possibly-the-most-dangerous-man-in-politics/
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 15, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
Trump likes his women submissive

so they won't say anything when he cheats on them
that would be just rude
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 15, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
You mean Submissive like Hillary?
nah000

climber
no/w/here
May 15, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
i know i can be an asshOle on here sometimes, but what follows is driven by pure and genuine curiosity getting the better of me...

does anybody on here actually know Klimmer in real life? while i have until very recently assumed that there was a real person with beliefs that corresponded to the avatar, there is a level of pure unadulturated bat shIt crazy recently that is honestly just making me wonder if at least some of this is not the most elaborate and also subtle troll in the history of supertopo...

like seriously?:

Both parties fear Donald Trump because he will investigate many things, not just one. And they don't own him. Donald knows where to look. He knows. He's very savvy to it all. They know it too. Big reason they don't like him and fear him.

Donald Trump is a very brave man.

I pray for our future leader. May HaShem guide him and may he place a very strong hedge of protection around him. Amen.



is it really possible that given the enormous and well documented wake of nefarious business dealings, personal and documented relationship "short-comings" and lack of any consistent position on just about anything that the donald trails behind him, that an actual real live "fundamentalist religious" person would say the above about him?

i dunno, kind of impressive in a strange way, if real...

and even more impressive if, in part at least, it is an elaborate troll...



either way: kudos Klimmer.
Norton

Social climber
May 15, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
so Escopeta, where is the list of all the "individual liberties" you have lost?

4th request to prove you don't just regurgitate right wing "talking points"

prove you should not be in the category as klimmer and truck bumper sticker "pyro"
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 15, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
Donald trump is a very brave man.

I'll say, the tall Greys are trailing him and he just ignores them.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/603088/Does-picture-show-UFOs-are-tailing-Donald-Trump-during-Presidential-election-campaign


But maybe this answers it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-boorstin/ufo-alert-trump-is-an-alien_b_9471748.html
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 15, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
I'm still curious to hear how exactly Drumpf will execute the plan of getting corruption out of Washington DC.

half of the 90%+ of the corrupt politicians are on the right side of the isle. He's asking them to rally around him to get him elected only to then turn around and come after their heads? is that the plan, Drumpf?

More likely he'll just do the same backroom corrupt deals that have so many Drumpfitards drooling over his very words and up in arms and supporting him.


Someone needs to question him on this in depth. I doubt he'll have a straight answer and will probably just start taking about his daughter that he wants to f*#k


Thanks for the snuggle HFCS. Brilliant minds snuggle alike
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 15, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
I'm still curious to hear how exactly Drumpf will execute the plan of getting corruption out of Washington DC.

Well, it's all relative. Once Trump gets to DC, we'll long for the good old days and what we used to think was corrupt.

Curt
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 15, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
now we're getting somewhere.


Make American Great Again == throw back to the good ol' days of corruption.


Got it!
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
May 15, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
Give me a god damned fvcking break.

Every time you give
trump your praises,
jesus kills another
kitten.

Where's your mushroom cloud pic.
I can see the image of Jesus
in the blast column.

Must be a sign.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 15, 2016 - 05:43pm PT
Sorry but that's not me.

No worries, Klimmer,
we all know what you look like from that blow-up those
many years ago. You remember, I'm sure.

PS Sure is damn funny though.
And it might as well be you as the image is apt reflecting
perfectly well the character in your posts.

imo.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 15, 2016 - 05:58pm PT
yer killin' it dad... juuuust killin' it.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 15, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
"Women less than half my age hit on me."

Hopefully not a big motivator in the decision to teach high school.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 15, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
When the flirting advances from the younger single opposite sex stop. Time to worry.

He has a very pretty daughter who is happily married. Leave her alone. He complimented his daughter. Leave it alone. Move on.

He didn't compliment her. He said he wanted to have sex with her.

[Click to View YouTube Video]


Seriously, dude, that wasn't ok even when Lot did it. At least his daughters had to get him drunk.
Norton

Social climber
May 15, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
The secret to why so many marriages fail ...

Genesis 3:16
"You will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you.”
Norton

Social climber
May 15, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
He didn't compliment her. He said he wanted to have sex with her.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 15, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
at least he has a beautiful wife now and shouldn't stray


Corey Lewandowski is very interested in your ideas. Call him.




Trump cheated on Ivana and Marla, both of whom were beautiful.

If Trump is not cheating on Melania, it is probably because of a very steep Cheater's Fee (tens of millions per act) written into their prenuptial agreement.


Then again, Trump is rich, so . . . . . .


Trump would greet teenage beauty pageant contestants he had never met before by kissing them on the lips, to demonstrate his sexual power over them.

The Miss USA winner would be given an apartment in TRUMP TOWER, just a short elevator ride from a coked and pan-handled lothario.





In accordance with Trump's recent analysis of Hillary Clinton, Ivana was an enabler. It was her fault that Donald Doosh was compelled to screw everything on two or four legs that he could get his hands on.

Marla was an enabler.

And now, most likely, Melania is an enabler.


Shame on them. Poor Trump is a victim of his wives' enabling behavior.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 15, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


I'm going to show her my "OH" face.

You know what I'm saying.

OH. OH.






In the early 1990s, Jill Harth and her boyfriend at the time, George Houraney, worked with Mr. Trump on a beauty pageant in Atlantic City, and later accused Mr. Trump of inappropriate behavior toward Ms. Harth during their business dealings.

In a 1996 deposition, Ms. Harth described their initial meeting with Mr. Trump at Trump Tower.

Donald Trump stared at me throughout that meeting. He stared at me even while George was giving his presentation. In the middle of it he says to George, "Are you sleeping with her?" Meaning me. And George looked a little shocked and he said, "Well, yeah." And he goes, "Well, for the weekend or what?"


Mr. Houraney said in a recent interview that he was shocked by Mr. Trump's response after he made it clear that he and Ms. Harth were in a monogamous relationship.


Trump said, "Well, there's always a first time. I am going after her." I thought the man was joking. I laughed. He said, "I am serious".


By the time the three of them were having dinner at the Oak Room of the Plaza Hotel the next night, Mr. Trump's advances had turned physical, Ms. Harth said in the deposition.


Basically he name-dropped throughout that dinner, when he wasn't groping me under the table. Let me just say, this was a very traumatic thing working for him.



Ms. Harth gave the deposition in connection with a lawsuit that alleged Mr. Trump had failed to meet his obligations in a business partnership. Mr. Trump settled that case but denied wrongdoing.

Ms. Harth withdrew her own lawsuit against Mr. Trump alleging unwanted advances, but she has stood by her original claims.





That is just one tale of pure sordidness in this article:


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/us/politics/donald-trump-women.html

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 15, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
That's his taking a Trump face... depth charge away...
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 15, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
Klimmer is starting to approach the 'Massive Ark on the Moon' post for response times. Klimmer, love you dude, but get a life.

And really, comments about the 'real' Klimmer should, in my opinion, be off limits. It ain't fair.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 15, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
Classic cult apologist response

Cult Leader
"He's OK, really"

Cult enemy
"Hillary is worse than the Devil, I can show you 100s of bad things she's done!!"
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 15, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
Yeah...Jim Jones was okay too...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 15, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
I would do Trump's daughter.

Does that make me a bad man?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 15, 2016 - 08:38pm PT

I have a beautiful 16 year old daughter. She is very good looking. She does some modeling. I've had people come up and ask me with her right there if she's my wife. We both laugh. It's funny. Just kidding I've introduced her as my girl-friend

You've got some problems. You need to seek some psychological help



My wife left the marriage. I didn't. Yes, faith had much to do with it. When I came back to G-d after being the prodigal son for many years

You need help.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 15, 2016 - 08:51pm PT
Locker... Are you saying the Trumpettes have swallowed the Kool-aid..?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 15, 2016 - 09:18pm PT
Not Kool-Aid.

Trump Ice water - - - laced with sh#t that will make you full of sh#t.





I would do Trump's daughter.

Does that make me a bad man?


No.

Ivanka is a stunningly beautiful and very intelligent woman.



But, she significantly misrepresented the occupancy rate at a Trump NYC co-op residential tower. In a co-op, the tenants are the sole owners of the building and are solely responsible for its costs and upkeep. A 35% occupancy rate is seriously worse than a 70% occupancy rate for the buyers.

Ivanka, and others in her family, are being sued by defrauded buyers.




So, be a good man, and do Ivanka, and then run like hell to get away from her.






EDIT:

Last year, Ivanka was sued over her signature jewelry line, and lost to the tune of $2.4 million. A judge ruled that Ivanka had been so negligent in paying her bills, that she had breached her agreement with her supplier. Ivanka then claimed that since her CAD design files were returned in 46 days, instead of 45 days, that constituted a material breach of contract that immediately relieved Ivanka of paying the $3 million she owed for jewelry she'd already received and then resold to the public.

Ivanka is being sued by an Italian shoe company, who claims she stole and copied their $750 fringed sandal design, had it made in China by pre-teen slaves, and then pimped it off on the cheap for less than 200 bucks. The two designs look different to me, but I am not an expert in the arcane world of over-priced women's footwear.

Donald, Donald Jr. and Ivanka are being sued by the staff of a Trump-owned sushi restaurant for illegally keeping the 20% add-on gratuity that belongs to the wait staff.


Wait. I have to say that, again.

Donald Trump and his children steal from an employees' tip jar at a Trump restaurant, in order to finance their outlandish, decadent and depraved lifestyle.

Classy.





http://www.thebraiser.com/donald-trump-is-being-sued-for-illegally-skimming-tips-at-trump-soho/


http://www.jckonline.com/2016/01/20/kgk-wins-24-million-judgment-against-ivanka-trump-fine-jewelry


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3503384/It-s-war-Italian-shoe-brand-Aquazzura-calls-pregnant-Ivanka-Trump-accusing-copying-785-fringed-sandal-design-create-CHEAPER-145-imitation.html



Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 15, 2016 - 09:29pm PT
Klimmer, you posted this, not me, so I feel free to ask what does this mean?

"I was more than willing to make it work. She wasn't."

Why wasn't she 'willing to make it work'? Any ideas?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 15, 2016 - 09:49pm PT
Buying real estate on the moon is grounds for divorce..?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 15, 2016 - 10:29pm PT
Klimmer, if this thread is about Donald Doosh, why are you quoting from scripture, as if to invoke God as a supporter of the World's Number One Doosh.



Donald Doosh is the DEVIL.


If you don't believe in the Devil, then Trump is the SCUM OF THE EARTH.



Trump steals the tips from waiters and busboys who work at a Trump restaurant.

Trump positions himself as a hot-shot businessman, and he claims to be worth $10 billion dollars. He zooms around in his jet, and promises to improve the lives of millions of Americans.

But, in reality he steals money from Americans who are economically vulnerable. He steals money from waiters and waitresses who may be living hand-to-mouth. When Donald Doosh steals $200 or $300 per day from each of those people, he severely inconveniences them, to put it politely and mildly.


It's one thing for Donald Doosh to defraud and steal from wealthy investors and bankers ("these are total killers"), and it's quite another for him to take food out of the mouths of the children of single mothers working at a low-paying job.


This is not some Biblical, scriptural fantasy.

This is reality.



And here is wisdom:

Donald Trump and his children are being sued, right now, in New York State Court for illegally stealing from the tip jar at a Trump-owned restaurant. He and his children are accused of padding customers' bills with a 22% gratuity, and then keeping it for themselves. New York state law forbids employers from keeping an add-on gratuity, because it belongs to the staff.


Trump and his children are THIEVES, not good businessmen.



Let he that hath wisdom count the Number of the Beast, for that Number is:

$500,000

That's what another high-faluting restaurant, Per Se, settled for when employees sued to get their stolen tips returned to them.



http://www.thebraiser.com/donald-trump-is-being-sued-for-illegally-skimming-tips-at-trump-soho/


Once again, the more you learn about Trump, the more despicable he becomes.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 15, 2016 - 11:43pm PT
I climb, ski, paraglide, SUP, skate and more. I try to stay in very good shape. Not as good looking as Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt but not far off. I have a full head of hair. Women less than half my age hit on me. Lol. I'm blessed by HaShem and I'm very thankful.


here he goes talking about how hot he is again ....I could see him building toward it for pages now. I am with D know, fuggin sickening, especially the daughter girlfriend comment

Don't care what your response is I can't stand reading your posts anymore. I used to think people were kind of dicky the way they treated you now I get it.

edit;

you've got so many hotass shorties after you how do you spend so much time trash posting here?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 16, 2016 - 12:16am PT
again, the general will be a nationwide intelligence test.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 16, 2016 - 01:45am PT
Klimmer, you are correct. I got a detail about the waitress' lawsuit against Trump and his family wrong.


She worked as a caterer for private events at the Trump SOHO Hotel, not as a waitress in a public restaurant.




Trump has declaimed all knowledge, responsibility, possession, etc. of the skimmed tips. He says that the waitress was never an employee of Trump SOHO Hotel. He says she was an employee of a third-party contractor.

To me, this sounds a lot like the use of an anonymous shell corporation to shield someone from liability and responsibility.

If Trump SOHO Hotel rented the conference/event rooms as including food and beverages, then the skimmed tips would have directly gone to Trump's company. If that 22% add-on fee was part of the rent for the room, it went directly into Trump's pocket.



I would suggest that the attorney suing for the recovery of the stolen money has determined that Trump and his family are culpable. He/she has investigated the matter enough to bring forth a viable lawsuit.


Trump is the Devil.



crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 16, 2016 - 06:11am PT
Trump/Palin. This is not a joke.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/279943-carson-palin-on-list-of-potential-trump-running-mates

Hillary is the last line of defense. Send her your $$. Sell your clothes and donate the $$. Have your children start a lemonade stand and send her the $$.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 16, 2016 - 06:20am PT
Trump/Palin might open some sort of singularity.

It's not going to happen though. Even Trump thinks Palin is a mess.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
May 16, 2016 - 06:42am PT
And how many red flags must one man raise before before we can't say I haven't a clue?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 16, 2016 - 07:15am PT
Sorry you can't handle the truth.

If you're a Trump supporter, then you are not part of the reality based demographic.

You really need to start from scratch and reassess what's true and what's not

start with cult deprograming, then pick up every skeptical publication available and study it until you come out of your delusion
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 07:34am PT
And how many red flags must one man raise before before we can't say I haven't a clue?

And yet, Clinton is one giant, waving red flag. And yet the left responds with, "Prove it. She's never been convicted."

So, the same line applies to Trump: "Prove it. Show what he's been convicted of."

You can't have it both ways. The standard of "proof" is the same for both parties: Conviction of a crime. Everything else is, quite apparently, just media froth.

So, "red flag," schmed-frag.

People in this election are voting "against" more than they are voting "for."
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 16, 2016 - 07:38am PT
madbolter posted
So, the same line applies to Trump: "Prove it. Show what he's been convicted of."

The larceny he brags about repeatedly in his books? Other than that nobody is accusing him of actual crimes, just of world class bigotry, inconsistency and d#@&%ebaggery. See the difference? "Trump is going to be indicted any day now!" is not something anyone is saying. "Trump will contradict himself any minute now" is an easily provable and daily occurrence.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 07:39am PT
If you're a Trump supporter, then you are not part of the reality based demographic.

More belittling, bullying BS.

People that don't happen to agree with your radical-left perspective number in the countless millions. They are not all stupid or out of touch with reality.

The fact that they don't interpret things as you do doesn't mean that they are stupid or out of touch with reality.

This election cycle has revealed more than any other just how corrupted the parties and the process is. The fact that the process produces TWO front-runners as red-flagged as both are indicates much more fundamental problems than your dismissive and belittling perspective allows for.


Bottom line is that millions of very in-touch and intelligent people are going to vote for Trump over Clinton for some very good reasons. Your belittling attitude will change no minds.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 07:48am PT
The larceny he brags about repeatedly in his books?

Yawn

Other than that nobody is accusing him of actual crimes, just of world class bigotry, inconsistency and d#@&%ebaggery. See the difference?

Oh, yes, I do indeed see the difference. Do you?

I would much rather have a d#@&%ebag as President than a putative criminal.

"Trump is going to be indicted any day now!" is not something anyone is saying.

Point!

Amazingly, it doesn't bother the committed-left at all that a major-party front-runner continues on with the process while being the subject of an FBI investigation, an investigation that is based upon piles of probable cause and that may well result in indictment.

Yet, rather than to throw its weight behind the non-criminally-investigated alternative (Bernie), the party (and the committed-left in droves) continue to support the giant, waving red-flag.

Yeah, I do see the difference. Do you?

"Trump will contradict himself any minute now" is an easily provable and daily occurrence.

Yawn.

As if other candidates don't contradict themselves. As if Clinton hasn't done the same on major issues, always depending upon her audience-of-the-moment.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 16, 2016 - 07:54am PT
Is anyone currently doing their thesis?

I have a hypothesis that the liberal sh#t show drum circle beats louder or softer on ST with the ebb and flow of Trump's ratings or television time. There's a correlation there but klimmers posts will need to be filtered out of the data as that obviously skews the bell curve.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 16, 2016 - 07:58am PT
What fascinates me is that some people still watch cable/network television.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 16, 2016 - 08:03am PT
He who loves father or mother more than Me isn't worthy of Me, and he who loves son or daughter more than Me isn't worthy of Me.

Sorry, I can't love an invisible sky wizard based on a book, or by accusing fingers pointed at me by filthy rich tax free TV preachers. Especially when the filthy rich TV preachers are getting busted with hookers, gay lovers or plooking little boys. I can't love that more than I love my mom, dad, or children. F*#k that.

Especially if this yeshua dude is backing Drumpf, who I consider ignorant, egotistical, racist and evil.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 16, 2016 - 08:06am PT
Madbolter posted
Yawn


"SHOW ME THE FACTS!"

*is shown the facts*

"WHO CARES ABOUT FACTS ANYWAY?"



fear posted
What fascinates me is that some people still watch cable/network television.

Nobody does. It mostly exists so that Sanders supporters can complain about how it isn't covering Sanders enough.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 16, 2016 - 08:08am PT
http://www.mediaite.com/online/everyones-mocking-insane-gop-tweet-about-having-a-better-party-even-a-gop-senator/
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 16, 2016 - 08:11am PT
What fascinates me is that some people still watch cable/network television.

Fascinating, indeed.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 16, 2016 - 08:15am PT
What fascinates me is that some people still watch cable/network television

this is a perfect example of tooooo much KOOL AID over the weekend..

Fascinating, indeed.
two drum circle kool aid using fools..
fear/edward you must not get out..
everybody in the world owns a T.V along with cable.. DUH
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 08:19am PT
"SHOW ME THE FACTS!"

If you think that Trump's bragging constitutes "facts," then you are cherry-picking in extremely contradictory fashion.

In some contexts you just call him a braggart and dismiss his statements as hyperbole. In others you treat his bragging as if it is "material fact" qua court of law. LOL

If the best you've got as "fact" is Trump bragging, then, yeah, YAWN.

*is shown the facts*

LOL

Fact: Clinton is the subject of an FBI investigation and may yet be indicted. The very fact that this is true should be deeply troubling to the left (which has a good alternative, btw, that the sick party won't get behind).

Fact: Trump is not the subject of an FBI investigation, and there is no reason to think he will be.

See the difference?

"WHO CARES ABOUT FACTS ANYWAY?"

Apparently me more than you.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 16, 2016 - 08:26am PT
NORTON what are you talking about are YOU ever right..
The NY Times is "liberal"

Are you ever right about anything...


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/05/16/model-featured-in-trump-hit-piece-slams-ny-times-says-her-story-was-spun.html
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 08:29am PT
See, the problem the left faces is that no matter how bad Trump is (pretty bad, btw!), it is a perfectly reasonable position (and one that countless millions, including independents, are taking) to believe that Clinton is worse than Trump.

Now, the Democrats could do the sensible thing and abandon Clinton in favor of Bernie. Most polls show him handily beating Trump, and the independents favor Bernie over Clinton.

But the left has hitched its wagon to Clinton, and that leaves the left-wing on the Taco Stand forced to defend the indefensible, namely, the quite obvious sickness of the Democratic party on this subject.

I'm one of many millions that say: Give me Clinton vs. Trump, and I'm almost certainly forced to vote for Trump; but give me Bernie vs. Trump, and I'm almost certainly going to vote for Bernie.

And any "preference" you have (and bully with) of Clinton over Trump does not count as compelling arguments that sustain the idea that a putative criminal is a better choice than a buffoon.

Edit: Seriously, think about it, when your party-commitment forces you to defend Clinton, as if she is the best your chosen process can produce for our general consideration, don't blame me or claim that I'm irrational or stupid for saying: "Uh, no! I'm not going with that."
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 16, 2016 - 08:39am PT
What fascinates me is that some people still watch cable/network television

this is a perfect example of tooooo much KOOL AID over the weekend..


Fascinating, indeed.
two drum circle kool aid using fools..
fear/edward you must not get out..
everybody in the world owns a T.V along with cable.. DUH

Most of the recent grads I work with have 'unplugged' from cable and regular TV. Of course they're fed propaganda in alternate streams but it appears to be less effective than the old 24x7 gov't news networks.

So there's hope. Maybe.

It's just funny to watch some of you guys get all spun up over the latest Trump vs. Hillary 'scandals' in perfect harmony with the cable news nonsense.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 16, 2016 - 08:41am PT
madbolter posted
See, the problem the left faces is that no matter how bad Trump is (pretty bad, btw!), it is a perfectly reasonable position (and one that countless millions, including independents, are taking) to believe that Clinton is worse than Trump.


If you believe ideologically in white male hegemony. Otherwise reason doesn't really factor into it.


If you think that Trump's bragging constitutes "facts," then you are cherry-picking in extremely contradictory fashion.


So you think it's a reasonable conclusion to support for president the guy who you can't even trust is accurately confessing to larceny. This is clearly a reasoned argument. Lots of reason happening here.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 08:44am PT
If you believe ideologically in white male hegemony. Otherwise reason doesn't really factor into it.

Patently ridiculous.

If you believe that "It's her turn" so much that even a criminal will do, I can only ask: Really? That's the best you can do?

Edit on your back-edit....

So you think it's a reasonable conclusion to support for president the guy who you can't even trust is accurately confessing to larceny.

I think it's reasonable to realize that I can't make sense of: "you can't even trust is accurately confessing to larceny."

What is the "bar" you think needs to be gotten over here?

Given that Clinton is the front-runner, the bar's gotta be pretty ridiculously low!

This is clearly a reasoned argument.

What's the argument again? You lost me.

Lots of reason happening here.

It's simple: Whatever bar Clinton gets over (in your mind), Trump more than gets over.

Clinton is a putative criminal, and the nature of her putative crimes directly relate to the very position she's running for.

Trump is not a putative criminal.

See the difference?
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
May 16, 2016 - 09:04am PT
Trump is offensive enough that many serial non-voters will vote for the opposing candidate.

This election is mainly about a Supreme Court seat, the Senate, and the House. Keep focused...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 16, 2016 - 09:05am PT
Most of the recent grads I work with have 'unplugged' from cable and regular TV.

Admit it, that isn't due to high mindedness, they can't afford it on a gender studies degree!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 16, 2016 - 09:07am PT
GCF, +10 !! (On the John Kerry post)
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 16, 2016 - 09:20am PT
the idea that a putative criminal is a better choice than a buffoon.

The key word here is putative. There IS a vast right wing conspiracy out to get the Clintons, they MAY also be criminals, but who knows with the well funded witch hunt?

Compare that to the actual words that have come out of Trump's mouth. He has exposed himself as much worse than a buffoon.

Yes Berie would have probably been a better choice, but the voters make that choice. Just like Kasisch would have been a better choice.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 09:23am PT
who knows with the well funded witch hunt

I and many millions of others are not swayed by some "witch hunt." I had no particular ax to grind with Clinton prior to the foundation scandal and email server.

At that point, I carefully assessed her own admitted behavior and the publicly-published statutes. It doesn't take a lawyer to connect the dots and see that "putative" is being technically generous.

The litany of facts (not right-wing conspiracy) are compelling.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 16, 2016 - 09:33am PT
Give me Clinton vs. Trump, and I'm almost certainly forced to vote for Trump

You are headed like a cannon ball towards making an extremely irresponsible decision.

Clinton is a putative criminal,

Clearly, you are delusional since this has no basis in fact.

connect the dots

Oh, that's it...she's a criminal if you connect your dots. Oh, man, "dots".
No actual facts, but you've got those dots!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 16, 2016 - 09:52am PT

Admit it, that isn't due to high mindedness, they can't afford it on a gender studies degree!

Bernie could fix that.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 16, 2016 - 09:57am PT
@ pyro and Reilly:

"everybody in the world owns a T.V along with cable.. DUH"

Well, that's demonstrably not true, as I do have a TV but don't have cable. My wife and I dumped cable about four years ago and have never looked back; we aren't alone in doing this.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 09:59am PT
You are headed like a cannon ball towards making an extremely irresponsible decision.

Perhaps. But it would have been so easy for the Democrats to save me from myself. Instead, they hand me Clinton and say, "All the 'evidence' you think you are seeing is NOTHING but a vast, right-wing conspiracy."

And when I say, "Really? And 'Wipe? Like with a cloth?' is just a big gag I should ignore?" I'm told, "Yes. Absolutely. Nothing to see here."

Sorry. Can't get past that hurdle. Neither, apparently, can the FBI.

Clearly, you are delusional since this has no basis in fact.

Ah, the predictable personal insult, which is the default-position of the left.

If there is NO basis in fact, even for the carefully chosen word "putative," then what's the FBI been spending our money investigating?

Yeah, I guess that, like me, they are just delusional.

Oh, that's it...she's a criminal if you connect your dots. Oh, man, "dots".

Actually, that's precisely what criminal investigations do: connect the dots.

No actual facts, but you've got those dots!

Actually, there's a huge pile of facts, and connecting them into a complete and coherent picture is precisely what the FBI is attempting to do. They are doing it under tremendous scrutiny and with an entire election at stake! No easy job!

Meanwhile, those of us that can simply read the relevant statutes and compare with Clinton's admitted behavior see a big problem.

But you'll just attempt to bully rational people into submission rather than take a more measured and reasonable approach: "Look, we certainly agree that on the face of it there are some serious grounds for concern. So, let's step through the facts very carefully and see if there isn't an interpretation that convinces you that there is a benign way to view her behavior."

Bluster about "Nothing to see here" isn't going to convince any thinking person, which is why it doesn't convince me.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 16, 2016 - 10:14am PT
bully rational people

First, referring to someone as delusional who continually and with great verbosity calls Hillary Clinton a criminal, is not insulting them, it's just an unofficial diagnosis based in reality (your posts). She is not a criminal, she has never been convicted of a crime and everyone knows it.
Rather, she has has been a dedicated public servant and a stalwart supporter of liberal causes. Of course, she's made mistakes and has had errors in judgement (the Iraq vote). But, I'll take her record over anyone else running - actually, anyone else, period.

Second, your position is not rational and I, nor anyone else, is bullying you. Any Bernie supporter who votes for Trump is irrational. Bernie and Hillary agree on 95% of important issues. Bernie will support Hillary enthusiastically in Nov. He will speak at the convention and tell his supporters to do the same.

Lastly, once this e-mail bs has concluded without Hillary facing charges, what's you line going to be? I'm guessing: "The fix is in!!". "DOJ on the take!", "Somebody got to the FBI!"

de·lu·sion
dəˈlo͞oZHən/
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument,

the Democrats to save me from myself

Wrong. You need to save yourself by paying better attention.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 16, 2016 - 10:17am PT
Wino, yer preaching to the choir, homes! But I do miss Bear Grylls!
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 16, 2016 - 10:21am PT
Drumpf is clearly unqualified

and one has to wonder if he doesn't realize it.

Think about it... think about you yourself getting the job as president of the US. And then part of the way into it you're only choice is to fire yourself because you can't do the job because you are not qualified. and then your ego makes you realize you are f*#ked. you can't quit but you can't go on. the biggest failure of your life is happening right before your very eyes and the entire world is watching.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 16, 2016 - 10:25am PT
Madbolter is the judge and jury. He is also very long-winded.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 10:30am PT
Madbolter is the judge and jury.

Nope, just able to read with comprehension and compare statutes with public behavior.

He is also very long-winded.

Not anymore. You guys can't read with comprehension, so systematic argumentation can't gain any traction here.

Of course, nothing that's not your left-wing opinion can gain any traction, so the best approach is to just kick directly into your same sarcastic drive-by mode, which is the essence of (claimed) "wins" around here.

No actual discussion takes place.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 10:34am PT
Second, your position is not rational and I, nor anyone else, is bullying you. Any Bernie supporter who votes for Trump is irrational. Bernie and Hillary agree on 95% of important issues. Bernie will support Hillary enthusiastically in Nov. He will speak at the convention and tell his supporters to do the same.

Ridiculous!

I don't agree with your perspectives on ANY point I'm aware of. Yet I've never once said that you were irrational.

The key point you lefties don't get is that it's not irrational to interpret the object facts in a wildly different way than you do.

And until you can let go the idea that everybody not interpreting reality as you do is "irrational," there is zero possibility of anything but a deeply divided country.

I guess that as long as you are hopeful of winning (with the barest popular majority), you'll not care about the deep divide. You'll just label half the country "irrational" and be thankful that "sanity" prevailed.

But what do you do if "sanity" does not prevail in this election? Perhaps then you'll look back at your quick dismissal of honest and sensible people and realize that you did your best to ensure maximum polarization.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 16, 2016 - 10:35am PT
Left wing? I support Hillary and you support Bernie Sanders, who is to Hillary's left.

It's not really possible to discuss something with someone who is convinced of events that haven't occurred, i.e., Hillary's "crimes". I hear that bs from Klimmer. End of discussion.

Honest? It's honest to promise programs and fail to mention a few trillion $$ shortfall in how you would pay for them?

Sorry, I'll take small change in the right direction over a "revolution" every day. And you're wrong to suggest electing Bernie would magically lead to a unified country. A Democratic Socialist not polarizing? C'mon.

The country is divided as we always are and, most likely, will be. As long as the tea party holds the power in the GOP there's no hope of compromise. Having them lose in a landslide in Nov, thereby empowering GOP moderates, that's the key.

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 16, 2016 - 10:39am PT
"Look, we certainly agree that on the face of it there are some serious grounds for concern. So, let's step through the facts very carefully and see if there isn't an interpretation that convinces you that there is a benign way to view her behavior."

My post was pretty much that. But I didn't do it to convince you of anything, you have clearly demonstrated that you are more interested in defending your view than really listening to anyone else, but I guess we are all guilty of that to some extent. My point was more that there are plenty of independents and others who are far more troubled by the bigot demagogue that is Trump than anything Clinton has admitted or been found guilty of.

Could Clinton be proven guilty of something serious before the election and lose? Sure. But pretty much that's the only way she is losing to Trump.

And beyond all that, even though I won't vote for either of them, to me it really comes down to the policies they would enact. The policies that Bill had in place and Hillary would likely continue are better for me and the majority of Americans, compared to what Trump would do. And with Trumps obvious narcissistic personality disorder I wouldn't be surprise if the did something REALLY stupid (e.g. start a war with Iran or North Korea because their leaders insulted him) with very serious consequences.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 16, 2016 - 10:44am PT
madbolter posted
The litany of facts (not right-wing conspiracy) are compelling.

Which ones?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 10:56am PT
Left wing? I support Hillary and you support Bernie Sanders, who is to Hillary's left.

Are you denying that you're left-wing?

The difference on that point between us is that you are committed to the left, while I am not ideologically smitten. I'll vote for what I take to be the best candidate, all things considered. And I do mean all things.

Somehow you are quick to call me "delusional" when I don't interpret the facts as you do. Conversely, I don't call you "delusional" when I am honestly baffled how anybody can look at the evidence regarding Clinton's foundation and email server and not consider her a criminal.

Just as the vast majority of us came out of the OJ trial believing that he did it (was a criminal that got off due to jury nullification), I will not be "delusional" to think that the evidence of Clinton's illegal use of her server and her willful destruction of public records is overwhelming.

But, somehow you continue to defend your claim that I'm "delusional." That's a non-starter.

It's not really possible to discuss something with someone who is convinced of events that haven't occurred, i.e., Hillary's "crimes".

Uh, events certainly have occurred, and they are events that should cause any honest American tremendous concern. It is completely reasonable to consider her behavior as "criminal," particularly when we all know that at her level of privilege, it's mighty hard to get genuine justice to apply (and I'm not leaving Bush out of that pile of evidence!).

I hear that bs from Klimmer. End of discussion.

If you can conflate my arguments with what Klimmer says, well, you are groping to be tritely dismissive.

Honest? It's honest to promise programs and fail to mention a few trillion $$ shortfall in how you would pay for them?

Oh, you mean like Clintoncare (her new flagship giveaway to ensure that childcare is paid for by the taxpayers rather than the people that have the kids)?

You mean like the left's programs in general that have "progressively" stripped from the middle-class to give to the "poor"?

You mean like NAFTA, that Clinton enthusiastically supported, in the face of endless evidence that it would result in the off-shoring of jobs, and was then forced to eat crow and apologize for, but has no intention of undoing?

You mean like those (and countless more) sorts of programs?

Does Clinton have any plan to balance the budget, create a surplus, and use it to pay down debt?

No, of course not. Like all "progressives," her plan is to promise more freebies, increase the debt, and just kick that can further down the road.

Sorry, I'll take small change in the right direction over a "revolution" every day. And you're wrong to suggest electing Bernie would magically lead to a unified country. A Democratic Socialist not polarizing? C'mon.

We disagree about the "right direction," but the fact that I could vote for Bernie should demonstrate that I'm no ideologue (like so many on the right here).

Regarding "polarizing," my point is about viable discussion, which your modality basically disallows. Sure, there will be ongoing disagreement. But what you're failing to get is that there are very, very good reasons why somebody could vote for Bernie but not for Clinton.

Until you can get serious about addressing those in non-dismissive fashion, you polarize discussion.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 16, 2016 - 11:03am PT
He is also very long-winded.

Not anymore.

Followed by the above. Priceless!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 16, 2016 - 11:04am PT
Continuing to invent "crimes" is a non-starter. The comparison to OJ is silly.

Debate Hillary's policy proposals vs. Bernie's all day, that's fair game. But your mischaracterization of her character is so off base there's no use discussing the election with you.

We all overestimate the power of a president. Without change in Congress, little of the change anyone suggests is possible.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 16, 2016 - 11:07am PT
That was a mini rant at best
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 16, 2016 - 11:18am PT
Crank said
Bernie and Hillary agree on 95% of important issues.

Well, yea, sort of, but not really. Hillary IS buying into the system that currently exists. Bernie is not. Now Trump, well, he's more like playing Russian roulette. Other than making money, I don't see how he really stands for anything. We are fuked....anything I had hoped for is going to be flushed down the political toilet. Oh happy happy joy joy. It really is hard to get excited to vote for someone because she is not Trump; but it looks like I will.

Edit; So Crankster likes the current status quo for the most part I take it.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 16, 2016 - 11:20am PT
A vote's a vote, no matter.

Politician's like Bernie can push a vision, perhaps his distances him from Hillary in a lot of Dem's mind. However, when you get to the nuts and bolts of politics it comes down to votes, right? Look at how they voted while in the Senate. And he's not pushing any bills through the legislative process, to my knowledge.

skcreidc, of course not. Electing a progressive woman president is hardly status quo.
Bernie is still a Senator, correct? Can't he push a bill to break up the banks? Free college? Single payer heathcare? Don't forget the part about paying for it. One place I do agree with mb, balancing the budget.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 16, 2016 - 11:34am PT
skcreidc, of course not. Electing a progressive woman president is hardly status quo.

The first sentence; Most promising thing I remember you writing recently. Second sentence; Jeeze...ahhhh, yea. But other than that woman thing, she is not at all progressive in the ways I am interested in. Inviting Warren along as VP would warm me up to her, but Bill will be in there again. Basically, we are talking status quo in terms of any real change in the way our current system operates.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 16, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
You sure?

You're just going on what Bernie is expressing in his stump speech, right? He hasn't actually accomplished any of this status-quo busting, correct?

See, I'm not hopeful that he could. That's the "Promising things he can't deliver" part of Hillary's stump speech I agree with the most.

Even with a Trump-led defeat, the GOP will likely still have a veto-proof majority in Congress. Big change possible given that reality? Nope.

I am curious about who Bernie supporters see taking his torch and running with it...is there someone?
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 16, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
Let me just clarify once and for all how I look at what a candidate says he will do, and what happens if that candidate is elected. In a way, Trump is correct when he says all the bull he's been spouting are just "suggestions". Each candidate puts forth their "vision" as to what they are shooting for. Let's just take Obama as a recent case. Closing Guantanamo bay...need I say more on that other than how could it not be politically hard to do even with good intentions. Even after becoming president there was this;"If you like the plan you have, you can keep it. If you like the doctor you have, you can keep your doctor, too." Just one of the many things negotiated away during the process of development. It would only happen under certain circumstances as it turned out.

Political capital. Didn't really help much did it. But, two things each president does have a reasonable say in are appointments. Judicial, and the 7000+ political appointments. President does not have the purse strings, but influences by general appointments and policy. To keep this short, even though this only gives a glimpse into how I think about this, Hillary will introduce some polices I like but many political appointments that will help to reinforce the status quo.

Edit; and yes, I am sure. I have history on my side and Hillary is nothing if not consistent politically.

Bern and his everything free? Just a vision that would never be a reality. But to bring college costs way down is critical to evening out the field for the poor. Don't forget, students still need to cover room and board. Definitely a discussion for another day for me. Have a good day crankster

Edit#2; Correcting the F-ups
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
Followed by the above. Priceless!

Oh, so even that (half of which was quoted from Crankster) was too long for you? LOL

Wow, ROFL. Pretty pathetic.

Okay, you asked for it....
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 12:25pm PT
Continuing to invent "crimes" is a non-starter. The comparison to OJ is silly.

No invention needed. She creates her own.

"Silly?" Yeah, you're right. Her crimes are far more odious and sweepingly damaging than anything OJ did.

Sorry, OJ.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
But your mischaracterization of her character is so off base there's no use discussing the election with you.

Your determination to elect her despite her obviously odious character (echoed even by the significant majority of Democrats) is so off base that there's no use discussing the election with you.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
And he's not pushing any bills through the legislative process, to my knowledge.

And neither is Clinton.

Both pretty useless "representatives."
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
the GOP will likely still have a veto-proof majority in Congress

"Still?" What are you talking about?

Obama's vetos stand (even the threat of veto stands), and the Repubs can't muster the votes to override them. 2/3 is a high bar.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 16, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
^^^ There. In little-bitty, bite-sized pieces for you to be able to choke them down.

For myself, I'm outta the cesspool and up for air for awhile again.

Enjoy.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 16, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
"Silly?" Yeah, you're right. Her crimes are far more odious and sweepingly damaging than anything OJ did.

At least OJ was charged. Don't you really think that some hot-shot conservative prosecutor would love to make a name for himself by prosecuting and convicting Hillary Clinton...if he could? The mere fact that no prosecutor thinks he has a chance of convicting her (of anything) tells me that there really isn't much there--except for a partisan smear campaign.

Republicans know this well: the next best thing to a scandal is a phony scandal.

Curt
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 16, 2016 - 12:56pm PT
Even a "hot shot conservative prosecutor" doesn't want to end up dead.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 16, 2016 - 01:18pm PT
Hillary's "crimes" exist only in people's minds. Once planted there, they take root and grow like a bad weed.

Both pretty useless "representatives."
She left the Senate in 2009.

outta the cesspool
Ha! We have a pretty good back and forth here normally. Sorry if folks pushing back against your false charges offends you. Come back with some evidence for these "crimes" next time.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 16, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
At least OJ was charged. Don't you really think that some hot-shot conservative prosecutor would love to make a name for himself by prosecuting and convicting Hillary Clinton...if he could? The mere fact that no prosecutor thinks he has a chance of convicting her (of anything) tells me that there really isn't much there--except for a partisan smear campaign.

Federal prosecutors report (directly or indirectly) to the Attorney General.
The Attorney General (currently one Loretta Lynch) reports to the President (currently one Barack Hussein Obama).

Now explain again why you are surprised that Hills hasn't been charged?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 16, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
Even a "hot shot conservative prosecutor" doesn't want to end up dead.

That was exactly my first thought as well.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
May 16, 2016 - 01:46pm PT
Hillary or The Donald? This is America's best?

GCF posted:
Anyone remember swift boat veterans for truth? That nonsense has been revealed to have been a pack of lies with original accusers recanting.

Lots of he said, she said finger pointing on Kerry's Viet Nam service.
I think most people were more put off by Kerry's dishonest Winter Soldiers congressional testimony regarding alleged American atrocities during the war. Nearly all of his congressional accusations have been discredited.

The awarding of medals in a combat zone can be very political. The criteria for awards differs from service to service, and unit to unit within a given service. In addition, any officer in a combat zone who is not awarded a medal risks their military career advancements.

Certainly his 3 purple hearts are controversial considering he never missed a day of duty. But according to military protocol, Kerry was entitled, and it was common with all Swift Boat veterans.

The criteria for the Purple Heart call for its award for any injury received during combat requiring treatment by a medical officer; the military makes no distinction regarding the severity of the injury. Under military regulations, the Purple Heart can also be awarded for "friendly fire" wounds in the "heat of battle," so long as the fire is targeted "under full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy troops or equipment."

An article in the Boston Globe described the circumstances in which Purple Hearts were given to wounded Swift Boat personnel in Vietnam:

"'There were an awful lot of Purple Hearts—from shrapnel; some of those might have been M-40 grenades,' said George Elliott, Kerry's commanding officer. 'The Purple Hearts were coming down in boxes. Kerry, he had three Purple Hearts. None of them took him off duty. Not to belittle it, that was more the rule than the exception."[14]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry_military_service_controversy

Bottom line: None of us were with Kerry at that time. He was in country and he saw some real sh!t. I respect his service in a combat zone.
OTOH: Few politicians have milked their military service for political gain more than John Kerry.
Norton

Social climber
May 16, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
oh, John McCain "milked his Vietnam experience directly into a US Senate seat...

actually there is quite a long list of "war heroes" being quickly elected to political office

voters like to say thank you
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 16, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
"It's between a crazy person and a nice lady"

Craig, I also appreciated how Maher pointed out that Hillary really didn't vote "for the war" (the usual characterization) when in fact she voted "for the authorization" of the President to go to war. There is a difference and it's worth parsing. Shame more of the populace apparently lacks ability to do this.

.....

Mighty Hiker, you must have deleted a post when I wasn't looking. Read it this morning next to Crankster. I thought it was spot on, very good. You shouldn't do that. :)
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 16, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
I think most people were more put off by Kerry's dishonest Winter Soldiers congressional testimony regarding alleged American atrocities during the war.

Alleged?

Norton

Social climber
May 16, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
and what was "dishonest" about Kerry's testimony

he had just come back from serving in Vietnam and felt strongly enough about our involvement and what he saw that he wished for congress to hear from a foot soldier

good for him and piss on the Republicans who tried real hard to denigrate his service
zBrown

Ice climber
May 16, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
when, in fact, we have caused our own problems

So most of the people get shafted

Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 16, 2016 - 04:01pm PT
Federal prosecutors report (directly or indirectly) to the Attorney General.
The Attorney General (currently one Loretta Lynch) reports to the President (currently one Barack Hussein Obama).

Now explain again why you are surprised that Hills hasn't been charged?

Well, by that logic (or lack thereof) the FBI would have never investigated her emails in the first place.

Curt
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 16, 2016 - 04:04pm PT

May 16, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
Even a "hot shot conservative prosecutor" doesn't want to end up dead.

That was exactly my first thought as well.


....because of the big rash of conservative prosecutors assassinated in recent years...
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 16, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
Norton,

Read this and try to educate yourself--you may want to right a little report to explain what you've learned in your own words.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27211-2004Aug23.html

Kerry's disgraceful lying is incontrovertible.

Barry's got a way of picking real honest guys (and gals) for the highest positions in government--Biden, Kerry, and Hills are well-documented, bald-faced, shameless liars. The only defense is "well they're politicians, of course they're liars." (I suppose another defense could be they're not lying, they're merely delusional.)

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 16, 2016 - 04:10pm PT
Well, by that logic (or lack thereof) the FBI would have never investigated her emails in the first place.

No--preventing the FBI from investigating a crime is clear malfeasance;
not filing a criminal case is simply an act of prosecutorial discretion (look it up if you don't what that means).
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 16, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
^^ An American Enterprise Institute hit piece that says nothing.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 16, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
No--preventing the FBI from investigating a crime is clear malfeasance;
not filing a criminal case is simply an act of prosecutorial discretion (look it up if you don't what that means).

Failing to file charges/indict if you have clear evidence that a crime has been committed is not prosecutorial discretion--that is also malfeasance. They don't have anything.

Curt
zBrown

Ice climber
May 16, 2016 - 04:36pm PT
Federal prosecutors report (directly or indirectly) to the Attorney General. The Attorney General (currently one Loretta Lynch) reports to the President (currently one Barack Hussein Obama).

Are these like book reports, ur whaaat?

Are you implying that one and/or both one Loretta Elizabeth Lynch/Hargrove or one Barack Hussein Obama have directly or indirectly blocked the prosecution of one Hills?

If you are, then why don't you state it along with on what evidence you base this assumption?





nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 16, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
zBrown - it's very simple. Allow me to explain.

If HRC is guilty they won't do anything about it because that is how our justice system works.

However, if HRC is not guilty then she will be indicted and President Obama and Mrs. Lynch would be a part of the indictment. That way they maintain their innocence by prosecuting a not guilty person.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 16, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
Nature

I need a total tutorial on installing grease monkey
no need to name names

but I am going with the same name you named

I can't take it anymore
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 16, 2016 - 05:03pm PT
lol! I love obfuscation. interested in making walls of text go POOF?

Step #1 - you have to use Firefox. Greasemonkey is a plugin for that browser.

And not so oddly you're the second person in a week to ask me how to get it running.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 16, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
I don't use FireFox, am I F*#ked??
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 16, 2016 - 05:41pm PT
Failing to file charges/indict if you have clear evidence that a crime has been committed is not prosecutorial discretion--that is also malfeasance. They don't have anything.

Curt

If you really believe that then everyone from Obama on down should be impeached and otherwise punished for their malfeasance for failing to enforce federal laws by allowing the open and conspicuous sale of marijuana in Colorado (and other places)--there is clear-as-a bell evidence that these crimes have been, are being, and will continue to be committed on a massive scale.
The same thing is also happening with immigration laws, but we don't need to go there, the marijuana example proves that your statement is simply incorrect--prosecutors need not charge a crime even when there is "clear evidence" of guilt, as you put it, and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. (At least that's true at the federal level and as a general rule--there may be exceptions.)

The marijuana example also shows that federal prosecutors are not free to file criminal charges against the wishes of their superiors--just not how the system works.

Some people believe that Hills is extra motivated to win the presidency just to avoid prosecution--if Trump gets it, maybe she will be charged.
(By the way, I don't have any strong feeling about the email scandal other then to observe it shows appalling lack of judgment on her part--it's not as if she was giving secrets to our enemies, and I doubt Obama ever really trusted her with anything too important anyway.) My favorite part of the scandal is when she was asked if she wiped the server and she got this funny look on her face and said something like "wiped, like with a dish cloth?" You can't make stuff like that up as they say.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 16, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
Good observations Blah

how do you feel about voting for Trump?
Yes or no
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 16, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
well w/o Firefox you can't use greasemonkey.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 16, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
I'm a big NO on Trump.
I knew he was a total liar (or at least had reckless disregard for the truth) in the Obama birther thing. I've got my issues with Obama but I never thought there was any legitimate issue about where he was born, and even if he was born in Kenya, I didn't see how that mattered since his mother was a US citizen (not everyone agrees what "natural born" means, but it always seemed to me that if you don't need to be "naturalized" to be a US citizen, that's all that matters--anyway that irrelevant, he was born in HI)

And I probably don't like Trump for most of the same reasons that the standard lib party line doesn't like him--he's a demagogue who's got nothing to say about specific policies (except for stupid things like his wall), his "business" skills seem to amount to inheriting money and being a reality-TV star, etc.

Now I agree with him on some things--I don't think bringing large numbers of Syrians to the US is a good idea (I may make an exception for Yazidis or other persecuted minorities). But saying there will be a total ban on muslims entering the US seems unconstitutional, terrible policy, borderline insane.

We could all go on and on--I don't like Trump and I don't know anyone who likes him, or at least no one who I talk to about politics.

So I'll probably end up voting for Hills, unless a 3rd party candidate attracts me.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 16, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
I guess I get what I deserve, being a skeptic, my religion makes me have to endure every angle, every side, every con

and try and sort it out
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 16, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 16, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
I don't think MB could pass the Turing Test

it must be a computer program stuck on an endless "Hillary corrupt" loop
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 16, 2016 - 09:08pm PT
am I F*#ked??

Is that a trick question?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 17, 2016 - 02:06am PT
High administration officials from three republican administrations in a row weren't for clear crimes and treason - and the low level officials who were tried were pardoned except for one scapegoat. And you whine about a private email server? Crikey, talk double standards.
dirtbag

climber
May 17, 2016 - 05:50am PT
Norton,

Read this and try to educate yourself--you may want to right a little report to explain what you've learned in your own words.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27211-2004Aug23.html

Kerry's disgraceful lying is incontrovertible.

Barry's got a way of picking real honest guys (and gals) for the highest positions in government--Biden, Kerry, and Hills are well-documented, bald-faced, shameless liars. The only defense is "well they're politicians, of course they're liars." (I suppose another defense could be they're not lying, they're merely delusional.)


Yawn.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 17, 2016 - 06:15am PT
zBrown

Ice climber
May 17, 2016 - 07:43am PT
Federal Bureau of Investigation Recreation Association for Some of my best friends are bald


The FBI has things other than Hillary to spend time on.

Concludes the audit, "We recommend that the FBI adopt the new policy it is drafting to ensure that all of the recreation associations are following state and federal not-for-profit laws," and forbid "board members from using personal financial instruments or accounts, such as credit cards or cash, to make purchases on behalf of or in connection with" the associations.

In a [possibly] unrelated story, Hiring Hurdle: Finding Workers Who Can Pass a Drug Test.

Do agents get regulary or randomly sampled?
dirtbag

climber
May 17, 2016 - 08:08am PT
Trunp has a lot of empathy:



Very presidential.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 17, 2016 - 08:20am PT
dirt get over your handicap problem it'll help you in the long run!

dirtbag

climber
May 17, 2016 - 08:36am PT
Pyro, you support a man who mocks disabled people.


Are you okay with this?

You like him because he has "balls." Does this take balls?


I've asked you this many times before. If you are sick of me posting this photo, well too f*#king bad.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 17, 2016 - 08:53am PT
The whacked out world of republicans...the most corrupt presidents in modern times have been Reagan and Nixon, the least corrupt have been Carter and Obama.


Go figure.

""By the end of his term, 138 Reagan administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever."


Benghazi !!!!! You go madbolter!!!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 17, 2016 - 08:59am PT
Some Trump supporters are saying he will fix the handicap problem

Not sure what they mean, but it doesn't sound very reassuring if you were handicapped

I guess that means folks will learning disorders will be included too

pretty classic portrayal of a contradiction disorder, vote for your own demise,
because you think they are on your side, like getting rid of the undesirables, to bad that includes YOU


People here in OC still drive around with W./Cheney stickers
They must be just demented.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 17, 2016 - 09:05am PT
I'm still unclear on what Hillary has done that would be considered criminal

but whatever it was, it pales in comparison to 100s of things that Trump has said recently that disqualifies him as President

FBI investigation?
she didn't have classified info on her e-mail server,
if she did, they would have said something already
what else would the FBI worry about? there is nothing
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 17, 2016 - 09:15am PT
Another Reagan Gem...mother f*#ker should have been in jail for life.



http://middleeast.about.com/od/usmideastpolicy/qt/me081022.htm


nah000

climber
no/w/here
May 17, 2016 - 09:37am PT
you know what i love?

defence of a candidate that begins with: but your guy-gal is worse!

if that's seriously the best you card carrying dems have, all it points to is the pathetic nature of your own candidate...

and anybody that conflates benghazi [which, based only on what is in the public record, is a witch hunt as there is precious little, if anything, to justify all of the wasted time and money that has gone into that "investigation"] with hillary's setting up of a private server and then deleting en masse her emails [both of which are verifiably on the public record and do justify an investigation regarding, as a start, compromised security, potential conflicts of interest, and breaking of freedom of information laws] is to employ the kind of straw man argumentation that i'd expect out of card carrying republitards...



oh well...

keep on fUcking that chicken and we'll see if the donald doesn't get in yet...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 17, 2016 - 11:03am PT
When the FBI report comes out, then the Benghazi/e-mail "scandals" comparison will make more sense.

As for that ark on the moon...
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 17, 2016 - 11:30am PT
Some Trump supporters are saying he will fix the handicap problem

The Germans showed the way back in the '30s.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 17, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
Does Donald say and do some stupid stuff? Sure. He even admits it. How honest. I would prefer that than a criminal being investigated by the FBI becoming president.

Just to clarify, being investigated doesn't make someone a criminal. Funny, since you accuse liberals of spewing hate.

Curt
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 17, 2016 - 12:25pm PT
Even your fox boys admit it was a put up job.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/10/16/fox-news-finally-concedes-benghazi-committee-is/206217

Trump, otoh, is stealing tips from his employees.

http://wonkette.com/599420/trump-sued-for-stealing-servers-tips-has-achieved-peak-trump
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 17, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
Arguing with Klimmer still...


How's that working out so far???...

But, it feels so good when I stop...

Curt

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 17, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
Never was there an administration with more people investigated, charged, or convicted, than the repugnican demigod, Reagan.
dirtbag

climber
May 17, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
Arguing with Klimmer still...


How's that working out so far???...


Kind of like this:






But I get sucked in sometimes too.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 17, 2016 - 01:53pm PT


Justice Department Opens Investigation Into Russian Doping Scandal

It is thought that Clinton e-mail server was utilized in Bitcoin transactions.



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/18/sports/olympics/justice-department-russia-doping-investigation.html?_r=0
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 17, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
Klimmer, all he knows is doing the same as Trump, no information how he plans to do with ideas or concepts for America or anything just attack one’s opponent pretty much like a bully when one was at school, a good distraction but nothing on foreign policy [wait he is going to meet Kissinger tomorrow the same one that helped out Ben Carson]

Can you give us some suggestions on what he would do? Yes, we know about the WALL how does he go about it, yes he will negotiate with the three quarters that are privately owned land for compensation. Eminent domain as in stealing it? Where will the wall be built on the El Grande river from El Paso to the Gulf, in the middle? Plus, he needs to figure out what to do that some have water rights. How about towards the west, where there are no roads or any access and impossible to place his Precast [Prefast, I believe he said] concrete wall? Yes, helicopters will work. How can you be sure that the Mexicans will be paying for it? Union dues for US or $ 45 a day for Mexicans labour and how are you going to make sure they do not pee into the concrete mix?

Great idea on his bringing back companies as in phones. He back tracks or changes his position now on everything one being minimum wage first he said no now he says yes. $15 an hour [no, he needs to negotiate] so $12.50 an hour. So now Americans assembling phones here will get $ 12.50 an hour. So now that ”I” phone is $2,000 to buy here letting all the other countries: Japan, Korea, China, India, Viet Nam sell the same or better phones for less. Great Trade he will create.

National Enquirers want to know; with that in mind was that Cruz’s father in that picture. Will Trump use that rag for his main intelligence briefings first then listen to his advisers? I believe one of his sons will one. Family you know.

Here are just a couple opinions on your buddy Trump on your same source. There is about 30 more look them up.

http://www.investors.com/newsfeed/ap/633675-judge-to-unseal-court-case-files-involving-trump-associate/

**Judge to unseal court case files involving Trump associate
**JEFF HORWITZ and JAKE PEARSON

5/10/2016 8:32 PM EST

NEW YORK (AP) — A federal judge agreed Tuesday to a request by The Associated Press to unseal about 240 court documents in a case related to the criminal past of a former business partner to Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump.

U.S. District Justice Brian M. Cogan said he will decide within two weeks whether to unseal 38 other documents in the case. But Cogan said during a hearing in Brooklyn federal court that he was leaning toward keeping those private because their disclosure would "deter cooperation and will jeopardize ongoing investigations."

The unusual case involves whether two lawyers should be held in criminal contempt for revealing details about the role of Felix Sater, a former Trump business associate, in orchestrating a Mafia-linked stock fraud scheme and his subsequent cooperation with the U.S. government.

The AP reported in December that, even after learning about Sater's criminal background, Trump tapped Sater to prospect for business on his behalf, giving Sater the title of senior adviser and an office in the Trump Organization's headquarters near to his own. The Trump Organization has downplayed the significance of the role, which it says never produced any business deals.

The lawyers facing the criminal probe, attorneys Frederick Oberlander and Richard Lerner, have said the secrecy surrounding Sater's criminal past allowed him to conceal additional misconduct during his time as a government cooperator and avoid paying restitution to his victims. They denied violating any orders against revealing confidential court records, and said that excessive sealing in the case has prevented them from citing documents that are publicly available elsewhere.

So on and so on………………..

Fluent Political Pulse: Hillary Clinton Leads Donald Trump by 9 Points in National Survey

Business Wire
5/10/2016 8:45 PM EST

Clinton is stronger with Democrats than Trump is among Republicans and also leads among Independents

NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- On the heels of Donald Trump’s presumptive clinching of the Republican Party’s presidential nomination, Fluent, LLC, an IDI company (NYSE MKT:IDI) and an industry leader in people-based digital marketing and customer acquisition, today released new research examining Trump’s strength against the leading Democratic presidential candidate, Hillary Clinton. Fluent’s “Political Pulse” survey of 1,313 registered voters conducted on May 8, 2016 found that Clinton enjoys stronger support within the Democratic Party than Trump does within the Republican Party, and also leads with Independent voters.

Key findings include:

Clinton leads Trump nationally by 9 percentage points (41% to 32%).Clinton also enjoys stronger support within the Democratic Party (76% of Democrats say they plan to vote for her) than Trump has within the Republican Party (66%). Clinton also has a 6% lead amongst Independents (30% to 24%).

Jobs and the economy top the list of most important policy issues by a wide margin. Nearly half of likely voters (43%) cite jobs and the economy as the most important issue, and it is the top issue by at least a

So on and so on…………….

As for information Klimmer need to read the article who/whom wrote it. On blahblah post to Norton http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27211-2004Aug23.html look at the bottom.

What does it say? AEI: right wing, the same people that took us to war and still will. Go to their site and read who they are and what they do and did to a few thousand US soldiers.

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute

brotherbbock

climber
Alta Loma, CA
May 17, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
+++1 Dirtbags pic from Young Frankenstein!

I love that scene...
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 17, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
Klimmer - Why is it that you feel DT is capable of being a donkey used for G-d's purposes, but Hillary Clinton not?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 17, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
Klimmer - Why is it that you feel DT is capable of being a donkey used for G-d's purposes, but Hillary Clinton not?

Well, duh...

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 17, 2016 - 02:40pm PT
Good question Happie.

Probably has something to do with Hillary being a woman so she should be subservient to men. It's a religious thing.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 17, 2016 - 02:53pm PT
When do the Clinton crimes and treason stop?

When do the Bush crimes and treason stop?
When do the Cheney crimes and treason stop?
When do the Kissinger crimes and treason stop?

(When do the Wootervillian crimes and treason stop?)

Perhaps you should ask a History teacher.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 17, 2016 - 03:21pm PT
You are amazing, Locker.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 17, 2016 - 03:44pm PT
So, I'm more tired of lockers's WONT than I am other people's WOT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 17, 2016 - 04:03pm PT
Klimmer, how soon you forget (or perhaps never knew as I suspect you watch Fox 'News'). Gee, private server, government business, etc. etc. except they 'lost' 22 million emails. Let's see some outrage about this Klimmer man.

From Wikipedia:

The Bush White House email controversy surfaced in 2007 during the controversy involving the dismissal of eight U.S. attorneys. Congressional requests for administration documents while investigating the dismissals of the U.S. attorneys required the Bush administration to reveal that not all internal White House emails were available, because they were sent via a non-government domain hosted on an email server not controlled by the federal government. Conducting governmental business in this manner is a possible violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978, and the Hatch Act.[1] Over 5 million emails may have been lost.[2][3] Greg Palast claims to have come up with 500 of the Karl Rove emails, leading to damaging allegations.[4] In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been lost.[5]

The administration officials had been using a private Internet domain, called gwb43.com, owned by and hosted on an email server run by the Republican National Committee,[6] for various communications of unknown content or purpose. The domain name is an abbreviation for "George W. Bush, 43rd" President of the United States. The server came public when it was discovered that J. Scott Jennings, the White House's deputy director of political affairs, was using a gwb43.com email address to discuss the firing of the U.S. attorney for Arkansas.[7] Communications by federal employees were also found on georgewbush.com (registered to "Bush-Cheney '04, Inc."[8]) and rnchq.org (registered to "Republican National Committee"[9]), but, unlike these two servers, gwb43.com has no Web server connected to it — it is used only for email.[10]
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 17, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
“Who keeps spewing hate on this thread?

The far left-wing radical supporters. See above”

Then Klimmer posts from Foxie news

Klimmer,

You are better at conspiracies.

Google “smart dust” or better yet this guy that reminds me of you. Maybe the way he uses his eyes what in the hell is looking at? I only watched 2 minutes of it let me know what he said.

Chemtrails.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=smart+dust&&view=detail&mid=1C950BBB566CF88DB2321C950BBB566CF88DB232&FORM=VRDGAR


Sensors were introduced and used listening for hearing along the border and the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Viet Nam, it was called Operation Igloo White. They were big, really big. It was a start but the US was onto something, now just make them smaller, took some time. Sensors dropped and then transmission picked up by the Satellites above, thermal imaging, radio frequency bands and the such. Used and currently in Iraq and other counties. Problem they can’t tell the difference as in women and children so one reason we cannot win any wars in the future unless you believe in killing them, guess you can look the other way. When civil war breaks out here in the future they will be used but for their intended purpose.

“How unbelievably hypocritical of you all”

Reading your comments or your fasciation on young and beautiful women and your daughter and younger girls and you are so hot, I now have my answer about teachers and students I asked. So how many “A” are you giving out to the girls? Sure your bible or interpretation that it is Ok, Trump likes it’s wanted to hit on his daughter but who I am to judge.

Have you noticed that I did not call you an idiot?

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 17, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
Klimmer, do you believe in the 'chemtrail' conspiracy?

@ lost, interesting that you commented about 'chemtrails' as I was outside the winery yesterday talking with a vendor and a guy we do some bottling for. The vendor Jim looked up and saw some contrails and commented about the 'chemtrails'.

I tried to gently explained the combustion process of a hydrocarbon and oxygen, and the end products, CO2 and water vapor (and a little bit of other stuff, oxides of nitrogen, etc., but not germane). I explained how, at high altitudes the air is very cold so under certain conditions the water vapor freezes out and forms what are effectively clouds. I reminded him of film from WW2 bombing raids and how there were contrails coming out of the engine exhaust on the bombers; they certainly didn't have the time or space to be spraying chemicals while the Germans were shooting at their asses. He actually got it.

But there are so many stupid people in this country there are now believers in a 'chemtrail' conspiracy where the government's loading chemicals onto passenger planes to dose the population (for what I'm not sure). You can't explain it to these people, they are immune. God weeps.............
Norton

Social climber
May 17, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
nah000

climber
no/w/here
May 17, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
^^^^

as much as it seems like it should be true, the above is bullshIt...
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 17, 2016 - 05:11pm PT
^^^^^^^^

Unfortunately true (that it's false).
divad

Trad climber
wmass
May 17, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
unfortunately all we're doing here is trading lies and insults...

just like the candidates
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 17, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
So god like...http://uproxx.com/webculture/donald-trump-megyn-kelly-on-her-period/

She is bleeding from her whatever.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 17, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
I was wondering whether G*^*D has used Klimner, since I found this wrapper discarded near his home.



G^**^D's or Klimner's you ask?

Go figger.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 17, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Apparently, G-d is using Trump as his messenger, he wants to work through Trump

and he will not touch Hillary, he dislikes her for various reasons
G-d will not use her like he will with Trump

so vote for Trump, if you want what G-d wants

Have I got this straight Klim?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 17, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
I wasted a few minutes and looked at one of Klimner's links.

After going on for a number of paragraphs about something that Napolitano supposedly said, it concludes with:

It should be noted Napolitano’s statement has yet to be fully verified.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 17, 2016 - 06:22pm PT
Craig, if that's what G_d wants why do we even need to vote? He (or whatever) could simply, with omnipotent power, change the voting results sort of like the Repubs want to do. I really don't see the need for people to intercede in G_d's work; we'll probably just fuk it up.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 17, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
Trump ... isn't corrupt. He's not breaking the law left and right. Trump has a conscious.

I think this is actually less believable than the ark on the moon.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 17, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
Hahahahaaaa!!
zBrown

Ice climber
May 17, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
It seems that G^*^**D is spending a rather disproportionate amount of time attending to United States politics.

May be a candidate for cataract surgery, eh?

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 17, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 17, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
Not Funny/?????
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
May 17, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
"His, him, he and me."

Its a spiritual
sausage party.

Bros before hoes
right, ark on the moon guy.

No wonder the old lady
sent you packing.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 17, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
Klimmer! Wait! What about Glenn Beck's & Ted Cruz's G-a=w=d???
Glenn Beck says G-a=w-d is going to punish America for Trump winning the Republican primary race and you say G-a=w-d favors Trump.

OH what a fickle G-a=w-d!


In a tearful segment before a studio audience on Thursday, Glenn Beck said he believes America is a “petulant child” that God has warned repeatedly and now must punish.

Beck, a fervent supporter of Sen. Ted Cruz, campaigned tirelessly for the Texas senator, who he believed to be “the next George Washington” and a man “anointed” by God and “raised for these times.”

Cruz’s loss in the Indiana primary on Tuesday to the GOP’s now presumptive nominee Donald Trump was especially difficult for the radio talker because he views Trump as a Hitler-like psychopath.

Beck told his studio audience, “When we say we don’t know what the Lord has in store for us, oh I do: our reaping of what we have sown. So, I really think this was the last reckoning for us.”

“We just continue to make the wrong choice,” he added. “So, I would look for the things that we’re supposed to learn as individuals, but I think the country and all of us as individuals are going to reap what we have sown, and there’s nothing that’s going to get us out of that.”
Beck then spoke of God’s judgment in dire terms. “His consequences are eternal. And they are not judgments. They are promises. You do this, and this is what happens. You do this and this is what happens. We did that, so we’re going to get that.”

“Now, we can still turn to Him, which all of us have done it, and can say, ‘Help us make it easier. Help us learn from it. Help us help other people through it,’” he added.

“But I don’t think there’s a savior running in on a white horse because quite honestly — we’re a petulant child. We’re the child that we have talked to, we have reason with, we have put in timeout, we have grounded, we have spanked, and the behavior is getting worse,” Beck said.

He explained that God couldn’t dismiss our punishment after such petulant bad behavior because that would make God “a bad dad.”
“That would be a very bad dad,” he said. “And the one thing I know about God: He ain’t a bad dad.”
- -

In a segment on his show on Wednesday, Beck declared that Trump will lose to Hillary Clinton and the GOP will never be able to elect another president “because what’s going to happen is you are now going to have Hillary Clinton legalize as many voters as you can, the GOP is going to be completely racist – whether it’s true or not – because of Donald Trump. You will never have another Republican president ever again.”

The news of Indiana’s primary comes on the heels of a very difficult past week for Beck, following news of another round of mass layoffs at his troubled media empire. On Friday, after giving an impassioned “farewell address” of sorts to his 40 laid-off employees from his replica Oval Office, the former radio shock jock joined his co-hosts in donning swim goggles and rubbing his face in a bowl of crushed Cheetos to see if they could “look like Donald Trump.”
http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/05/06/glenn-beck-america-petulant-child-god-must-punish-supporting-trump-cruz/


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 17, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 17, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Per Klimmer: "He knows WE don't want our country to continue down the road of ruin without him."

Note the emphasis: What you mean 'WE' white man? Don't I count?

But beyond semantics, what is actually wrong with America that so urgently needs fixing, Klimmer? I mean it's only eight years since the black man became president; have we fallen so far? I haven't noticed anything much except way more guns, a misogynist Trump running for president, and racism rearing its ugly head; I guess you could blame the racisism on Obama, as he's black, but still......

Please enlighten us as to what Obama has done that has destroyed this country. Then write a 500 word essay (this is your assignment, you're in school now) about how Bush f*#ked up the world. Compare the two with critical analyses. You have 60 minutes from now.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 17, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
So simply put, Glenn Beck is wrong.

Meh. One crazy mythology is pretty much as good as the rest.

Curt
John M

climber
May 17, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
So, first you condemn Trump from making fun of a handicapped person, and then you make fun of Klimmer..

not really wanting to defend that stuff, but I do believe that we want to hold someone who wants to be president to a higher standard.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 17, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
Klimmer?

Re your post:

They Glenn Beck et al., got all this divine revelation from the Angel Macaroni. Oops I mean Moroni. Didn't someone tell Joseph Smith to check the spirits to see if they are from G-d? Lucifer, Satan, can appear as an Angel of Light.

Apparently Joseph Smith didn't get the memo, or he didn't read his Bible. Even the last Book of the Bible says to not add or subtract from the word of G-d.

So simply put, Glenn Beck is wrong.

OK! You hate & mock Mormons.

It's bold in these times for a school teacher to state that he hates Mormons.

Coach37

Social climber
Philly
May 17, 2016 - 09:02pm PT
Ha-Shemp, the wacky brother of Ha-Moe and Ha-Larry. But a poor replacement for Ha-Curly.

God is still punishing the USA for the vile sins of Andrew Jackson. She is not real happy after we murdered all those natives.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
May 17, 2016 - 09:16pm PT
Curious why people engage with a guy whose main contribution to supertopo is the discovery on an arc on the moon?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 17, 2016 - 11:42pm PT
Curious why people engage with a guy whose main contribution to supertopo is the discovery on an arc on the moon?

There is an arc on the moon, you know....

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 18, 2016 - 05:16am PT
http://www.vox.com/2016/5/17/11696606/donald-trump-megyn-kelly-bimbo

Trump's "apology" perfectly demonstrates his kind of manipulative chauvinism. "I'm not going to use it with you because I like our relationship right now." Completely reserves the right to denigrate other women or to revert back to using sexist epithets against Kelly if he no longer finds the relationship useful.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 18, 2016 - 06:09am PT
I'm starting to wonder if maybe a Drumpf presidency wouldn't be in the best long term interest of the country. Drumpf will wreck the GOP once and for all and by avoiding a Billary presidency we avoid yet again another administration that is bought and paid for. Not sure we can survive 2.5 years of Drumpf but the pendulum ball has to start swinging harder if the people are ever going to gain their voice back. this stupid little back and forth exchange of power (it's not really - they are just the same with a different label) has to end.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 18, 2016 - 06:19am PT
"Let's talk about us". Gag.

Klimmer, there's a special place in hell reserved for Trump. He doesn't need company.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 18, 2016 - 06:51am PT
Drooler, your joke would have been better if you would have said "then you do the same thing by making fun of Klammer" then more of us would have probably gotten it... it is actually a pretty subtle joke, I like it
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 18, 2016 - 07:09am PT
"F*#k you I won't do what you tell me," Trump sings softly, "f*#k you I won't do what you tell me, f*#k you I won't do what you teeeellll me, f*#k you I won't do what you tell me."

The music rings tinny from his headphones as he sits atop the Elephant Chair. It is an immense throne, thirty feet tall, all iron in the shape of an Indian elephant. Ivory tusks form the arm rests and a massive jawbone the chair. He stops singing and plucks out his earbuds as the massive oak doors creak open below.

Lord Ryan strides down the length of the hall, helm tucked in his arm, his footfalls echoing in the torch-lit gloom. Lord McConnell stands beside him. They stand before the throne.

"Lord Trump--" he begins.

Ser Christie cuts in. "Kneel before your lord."

Paul looks at him sidelong. "I've made a deal with the Establishment. They have agreed to back you...as long as you pivot to the middle and tone down your rhetoric." Christie draws his sword, but The Donald raises a hand. "Okay, let him talk, I can talk to him. I'm reasonable."

The Donald rises from the throne as his men step back. "What's your deal, Ryan?"

Paul glowers, one hand on the pommel of his sword. "If you pivot to the middle, support fair trade, and agree to our neocon foreign policy, we will support you."

McConnell steps forward. "It is a good deal, my lord. On the one hand, it pleases no one, but on the other hand, accomplishes nothing."

The Donald spits a glob of phlegm. "What? Hey? That isn't a deal. Deals do something. I do something."

Ryan starts, "Donald, we need these down ticket races--"

"Shut up!" Trump shouts. "We are going to make America great again. We are going to Start Winning! Phizer! Tractors!! CHYNA!!!!"

Lord McConnell bends to one knee. "Lord Trump, if we could only compromise--"

"Out!" Trump shouts. The Smalldon and the rest of the house guard rush to seize the traitors. "Get them out of here! Out Out OUT OUT OUT!!"
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 18, 2016 - 07:18am PT
Megan Kelly whored herself out last night. I respected her for questioning trump in August, but now it seems that she only wanted to promote herself.


I'm starting to wonder if maybe a Drumpf presidency wouldn't be in the best long term interest of the country. Drumpf will wreck the GOP once and for all and by avoiding a Billary presidency we avoid yet again another administration that is bought and paid for. Not sure we can survive 2.5 years of Drumpf but the pendulum ball has to start swinging harder if the people are ever going to gain their voice back. this stupid little back and forth exchange of power (it's not really - they are j

You might be onto something.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 18, 2016 - 07:20am PT
I'm starting to wonder if maybe a Drumpf presidency wouldn't be in the best long term interest of the country. Drumpf will wreck the GOP once and for all and by avoiding a Billary presidency we avoid yet again another administration that is bought and paid for. Not sure we can survive 2.5 years of Drumpf but the pendulum ball has to start swinging harder if the people are ever going to gain their voice back. this stupid little back and forth exchange of power (it's not really - they are just the same with a different label) has to end.

Changing puppet skins isn't going to matter without a fundamental teardown of the current rotten core.

The circus around this current skin change is fantastic theatre though and keeps people distracted. Think of it as another Trayvon or OJ case.

Between Hillary or Donald, who do you think would make a more soul-less compliant puppet? The answer is your next puppet in chief.

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 18, 2016 - 07:32am PT
Changing puppet skins isn't going to matter without a fundamental teardown of the current rotten core.

yeah, exactly. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss. The core needs to go one way or the other. Now I think chances are Drumpf just becomes another sell out shill and doesn't change anything. He's pointed out how corrupt Washington is (one of the rare areas I agree with him) yet he's trying to align the party behind him. So let me get this straight - he's trying to align behind him the same people that once elected will be going after their heads if he's to live up to the idea that Washington is corrupt and it's house cleaning time. Sorry - that's oil and water mixing. Either he won't clean house or he will and the party will never align around him. I guess the end result is the GOP finally dies the death it deserves.

And we know Billary will just be the same as the old boss.

Sanders is the only one in the race that I don't see selling out. But his idea isn't to clean out Washington corruption - it's to deal with Wall Street. So the same shills are in place and he gets not very far as neither party of corruption wants to support him. Then in four years from now Drumpf runs or some other pathetic republican losers (mirroring the crew we just watch lose out to a demagogue) and we're back at square one - disenfranchised voters.



Between Hillary or Donald, who do you think would make a more soul-less compliant puppet? The answer is your next puppet in chief

Well we already know Billary would be a puppet. We already know she is. Drumpf is in a no-win situation so he also becomes a puppet. And in 2.5 years after being faced with the utter failure he is he offs himself or bails.

At this point I'm feeling like I'll write in the guy I've voted for more than anyone else in a presidential election - Frank Zappa.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2016 - 07:36am PT
Nature wrote: Well we already know Billary would be a puppet. We already know she is. Drumpf is in a no-win situation so he also becomes a puppet. And in 2.5 years after being faced with the utter failure he is he offs himself or bails.



I disagree with your assessment of Hillary.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 18, 2016 - 07:46am PT
Return to the McCarthy era, eh.

Looks suspicioiusly like Trump's father. The one who actually made the money (and the dummy)

"I only follow orders from G;;*;;D."



pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 18, 2016 - 08:08am PT
Sanders is the only one in the race that I don't see selling out.

even Donald agrees with Nature's bern man..

Bernie Sanders is being treated very badly by the Dems. The system is rigged against him. He should run as an independent! Run Bernie, run.

D.T
dirtbag

climber
May 18, 2016 - 09:13am PT
DMT is 100% right.

Old people will not vote for a socialist.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2016 - 09:15am PT
"The problem with Sanders remains... The American voter may be prepared to elect a woman but no way will they elect a socialist. Sorry. Its against the tenets of the American Religion."

The problem with Bernie is that he can't and hasn't carried the black and latino vote, young white voters with huge debt are his base, just the opposite of Trump. :-)


At this point I say f*#k off to Bernie, he is not a democrat, does nothing for democratic party and I'm sick and tired of him spewing the same old sh#t.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 18, 2016 - 09:20am PT
and young people and independents won't vote for Hillary.

you continue to state that Bernie cannot be elected yet every poll shows him with a better to much better chance of beating Drumpf. I see zero evidence for your assertion.

and so to that I say f*#k off to billary and the DNC. I'd rather have Drumpf as at least he'll be an awesome wrecking ball of the GOP. Of course he might take the entire planet with him so there's that minor issue.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 18, 2016 - 09:21am PT
Such anger among the Dems on the ST
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2016 - 09:25am PT
"and young people and independents won't vote for Hillary."


We will see in November.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2016 - 09:34am PT
"and so to that I say f*#k off to billary and the DNC. I'd rather have Drumpf as at least he'll be an awesome wrecking ball of the GOP. Of course he might take the entire planet with him so there's that minor issue."


Really?? That worked out really well back in 2000.
kattz

climber
May 18, 2016 - 09:41am PT
They need some good security at Philadelphia convention, as deranged Bernie bots may try to kill someone with chairs, or worse.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2016 - 09:45am PT
"Such anger among the Dems on the ST"


bernie is not a democrat. :-)
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 18, 2016 - 09:49am PT
nature posted
and young people and independents won't vote for Hillary.


Hillary supporters said the same thing about Obama and that was a much, much closer election. Granted, the petulance of Sanders supporters are making the Clinton camp's 2008 belly aching look pretty mature.

you continue to state that Bernie cannot be elected yet every poll shows him with a better to much better chance of beating Drumpf. I see zero evidence for your assertion.

Nobody is trashing Sanders. Nobody. Sanders is the election's eccentric uncle that everybody thinks is kind of adorable. ED polls in May are completely, entirely and every way NOT predictive of November outcomes. Wait until everybody hears that Sanders' solution to every problem is "fix income inequality" and $1 billion is spent making sure everyone in America knows that his healthcare plan calls for a massive middle class tax hike. It's utter fantasy to think that those numbers are in any way reflective of how things would look 5 months from now.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2016 - 09:54am PT
It is a done deal with Clinton, she is winning by a large margin, didn't cheat to get them delegates and at this point it is time for Bernie to tone down.

Bernie is using the same rhetoric that Trump used, worked for Trump, not gonna work for Bernie.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 18, 2016 - 09:54am PT
and young people and independents won't vote for Hillary.

you continue to state that Bernie cannot be elected yet every poll shows him with a better to much better chance of beating Drumpf. I see zero evidence for your assertion.

and so to that I say f*#k off to billary and the DNC. I'd rather have Drumpf as at least he'll be an awesome wrecking ball of the GOP. Of course he might take the entire planet with him so there's that minor issue.

This election is a circus. Have you ever seen a non-scripted circus? Of course not.

Donald isn't a "business man" nor is he a politician. He's an entertainer who peddles his own brand. Like all narcissists he likes to be the biggest and baddest clown in the center ring. If the crowds are laughing or crying or aghast in horror, Donald is happy simply because he's there and everyone is watching.

Donald is handing this silly WWF match to war-criminal Hillary on a silver platter. He has no intention of donning the chief-puppet threads. Why would he? Hillary desperately needs and wants the job, Trump has merely agreed to help her.

I'm just waiting for Hulk Hogan to tag in.

Are you not amused citizens!!!???



kattz

climber
May 18, 2016 - 09:54am PT
Democrats preaching "need to stop Trump" fail to see a mountain standing in front of them: what's so strange or upsetting about the fact that about half of the country is fed up with their rights being violated because they're told they always "owe" something, to some entitled groups (who don't deserve any), and all that while government is enforcing strictly one-sided PC BS? These are the things that need to be stopped.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 18, 2016 - 09:57am PT
The American voter may be prepared to elect a woman but no way will they elect a socialist.

That must be why he keeps winning primaries.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 18, 2016 - 10:09am PT
I tried to like Bernie, even as I knew I wouldn't vote for him. But in listening to his speeches, I have come to see him as an angry person, and I am becoming less sure he will support Hillary Clinton if she is determined to be the candidate. (OTOH, I can easily see HC being gracious and putting her support behind Sanders if he is chosen).

Last night I heard Sanders say that the "pundits" are saying he should remove himself from the race. Frankly, I have not EVER heard any news source say this. Only that he has a "nearly insurmountable obstacle." I do like the fact that Sanders wants to stay in to allow each state to cast their primary votes; I think that is a fair way to do things.

It's too bad, really, that "staying in" a race is so dependent on being able to finance the support. We wouldn't be stuck with DT as the sole GOP candidate, if that weren't the case.

As for DT being an "honest man," that is so blatantly, obviously offtrack I think it is a lost cause to suggest Klimmer, that you are viewing the situation with any sense of rationality.

Last night, in his interview, he said something like that if he didn't win the presidency, then he would consider the whole thing a complete "wasted of time, energy and money."

What a brazen lack of humility that statement shows. I would HOPE that attempting such a task(running for the president of the US) would give a person so many learning opportunities that it would provide them with fuel to grow in the years to come. I know that I personally use "lessons" and experiences from the past to help me navigate through the day on a regular basis.

So, DT is learning NOTHING from all this? Not learning that his big mouth is off-putting to large segments of society(beyond the US as well). Not seeing that Putin "likes him" because he is is entertained by his egotistical blindness? Not learning that he has NO CLUE WHATSOEVER with how to communicate with the Asian people he will be required to engage with? He actually believes he can "call China" and with "one phone call" have North Korea doing as he(DT, as president of the US) would like?

The man is beyond a buffoon, when it comes to political diplomacy. So far beyond that it is an embarrassment to our country on the world stage.

He will not be elected president. And I can imagine the after-election political cartoons will be quite interesting. It's kind of like, as an electorate, we have our finger poised on the "nuke button" and are deciding whether to annihilate the world(elect DT) or act with a modicum of sense (elect someone other than DT). It' kind of looking like the Cuban Missile Crisis in another form.

The only possible way God would use DT, as president of the US for his purposes is to create a catastrophe on the scale of the biblical flood. Maybe that IS God's plan - ever thought of THAT, Klimmer?

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 18, 2016 - 10:57am PT
bernie is not a democrat. :-)

But all the people angry at him are...
kattz

climber
May 18, 2016 - 10:58am PT
To sum it up, Sanders needs to -- must -- "stop Clinton" but Democrats overall need/must "stop Trump", or it WW3, end of the world, dig the bunker.

Sounds like a shaman saying "There'll be no more rain if you don't bring me gifts".

Norton

Social climber
May 18, 2016 - 11:11am PT
you continue to state that Bernie cannot be elected yet every poll shows him with a better to much better chance of beating Drumpf. I see zero evidence for your assertion.

Well, I did not make the assertion but I think I can add credibility to it

the fact that very few seem to recognize is that Bernie Sanders has not been "vetted"

he has not been under a microscope whereupon every little things he has ever said or done has been called into question

go ahead, google Bernie, read about his youth and memberships in what most everyone would call "communist" organizations

there is a reason he has never, ever, been a "Democratic" - because he is not one

he identifies rightfully as a Democratic Socialist and just last year registered as a Democrat so he could run as one in this election

consider that even his opponent Hillary Clinton hardly ever brings up his past and goes nowhere near what the Republicans would kill him with in negative advertising
IF HE WAS THE NOMINEE, and because they all knew he had no real chance why waste one dollar beating the hell out of Sanders, much better to go after Hillary

No serious, responsible, reasoning person can look at what Bernie is proposing and conclude that the Republican controlled House would vote yes on anything, and everyone knows this, except Bernie's uninformed, misinformed, adoring "fans"

don't get ME wrong, I like Bernie personally as a man, honest to a fault. well meaning and probably absolutely stunned to be where he is now - taken somewhat seriously
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 18, 2016 - 11:13am PT
I really want to know what G-d made the donkey do.

What was it's task?
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 18, 2016 - 11:36am PT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 18, 2016 - 11:40am PT
Brandon, I think the donkey deal was covered by Craig with an interesting cartoonograph a few pages back.

I've given money to Bernie and think he is sincere to the bone, but I also think it's time for him to give it up. Hillary has won the primary and we need Bernie to start backing her. This infighting is doing no one (at least on the Democratic side) any good.

One of the most important responsibilities of the new president will be appointing Supreme Court Justices; who they are will affect this country for decades. I'm just glad it's not Ted The Zodiac Killer Cruz who will be doing this.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2016 - 11:54am PT
"My guts says he's going to be tough to beat. Brace yourself happi....

DMT"


So what states is he going to take away from the Democrats??

Norton

Social climber
May 18, 2016 - 11:56am PT
Winemaker stated and +1

Hillary has won the primary and we need Bernie to start backing her. This infighting is doing no one (at least on the Democratic side) any good.
Norton

Social climber
May 18, 2016 - 11:57am PT
This is so good it deserves to be moved to this page

the fact that very few seem to recognize is that Bernie Sanders has not been "vetted"

he has not been under a microscope whereupon every little things he has ever said or done has been called into question

go ahead, google Bernie, read about his youth and memberships in what most everyone would call "communist" organizations

there is a reason he has never, ever, been a "Democratic" - because he is not one

he identifies rightfully as a Democratic Socialist and just last year registered as a Democrat so he could run as one in this election

consider that even his opponent Hillary Clinton hardly ever brings up his past and goes nowhere near what the Republicans would kill him with in negative advertising
IF HE WAS THE NOMINEE, and because they all knew he had no real chance why waste one dollar beating the hell out of Sanders, much better to go after Hillary

No serious, responsible, reasoning person can look at what Bernie is proposing and conclude that the Republican controlled House would vote yes on anything, and everyone knows this, except Bernie's uninformed, misinformed, adoring "fans"

don't get ME wrong, I like Bernie personally as a man, honest to a fault. well meaning and probably absolutely stunned to be where he is now - taken somewhat seriously
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 18, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
DT has released a list of 11 people he would consider nominating for Supreme Court Justices if he is elected.

I'd rather he release his tax returns..... but what the hell.

The statement he made was clearly not written by himself.
splitter

Trad climber
HighwayToHell
May 18, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
If he gets our neighbors to the South to pay for a wall that he says he's gonna build it will be to block a sudden onslaught of Americans from entering Mexico. He seems rather confident of this boast, I wonder why?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 18, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
I don't understand why most people will vote for Hillary or the Donald, when so many people are complaining about how bad they both are. In every non swing state where you vote doesn't matter for who gets elected, why not vote third party to show disatisfaction with the two parties which most people dislike.

do people not think about it? Still want to show support for one over the other? Feel like there's no good third choice? Feel it hopeless to change a 2 party system?
dirtbag

climber
May 18, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
I haven't familiarized myself with 3d party candidates in this year's election, but in previous years, almost all were crackpots or extremists.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 18, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
I'm still hoping the general dissatisfaction will lead to a party that actually coalesces at the center, rather than the extremes. It won't happen in this election, of course. Consequently, if the choice is Hillary or Donald, and it's close enough that my vote could matter, I have to hold my nose, hope no Republican-appointed SCOTUS justice dies or resigns, and vote for Hillary. Trump offers no firm ground on which to rest.

As Norton points out, Hillary is the only candidate that's really been vetted. I don't see her nagatives going any lower absent some bombshell Clinton Foundation or email revelation that has stayed hidded to date. Bernie, Trump and any other candidate can easily sink as we find out more about their negatives.

John
zBrown

Ice climber
May 18, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
no Republican-appointed SCOTUS justice dies or resigns

Charitably, at least one of these is already brain-dead, has been for years.

I do have to agree, it's not much of a choice.

What I always wonder about is why anyone even wants the (Pres) job.

How about Trump gets elected, appoints himself to the Supreme Court and resigns as president. Kinda makes the VP choice more interesting, eh.

Newt Gingrich for Pres, sometime after 2016?

***

If by some weird circumstance HRC (don't confuse with JFK or DDE) is indicted she will be immediately pardoned. There is no doubt here.



zBrown

Ice climber
May 18, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
If the choices are not appealing, I've heard Frank Zappa's name brought up as a write-in. Howsabout Klimner and G*#$@*D as another. Now that's the ticket.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
Klimmer....you are a real tool.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/04/no-veto-power-for-clinton-on-uranium-deal/
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 18, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
kattz posted
Democrats preaching "need to stop Trump" fail to see a mountain standing in front of them: what's so strange or upsetting about the fact that about half of the country is fed up with their rights being violated because they're told they always "owe" something, to some entitled groups (who don't deserve any), and all that while government is enforcing strictly one-sided PC BS? These are the things that need to be stopped.

Rights being violated? Dooooo go on.



John posted
As Norton points out, Hillary is the only candidate that's really been vetted. I don't see her nagatives going any lower absent some bombshell Clinton Foundation or email revelation that has stayed hidded to date. Bernie, Trump and any other candidate can easily sink as we find out more about their negatives.

Trump is currently as low as he can get.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
More on the Clinton Cash author...liar to the core.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/04/20/clinton-cash-author-peter-schweizers-long-histo/203209

"Media should be cautious with Republican activist and strategist Peter Schweizer's new book Clinton Cash. Schweizer has a disreputable history of reporting marked by errors and retractions, with numerous reporters excoriating him for facts that "do not check out," sources that "do not exist," and a basic failure to practice "Journalism 101."
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 18, 2016 - 02:38pm PT
Klimmer....you are a real tool.

That may be, but the 13 minutes of lying by Hillary Clinton that he posted gives a unique glimpse into the life of a career bureaucrat.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
And you seem just gullible as him.

http://jobsanger.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-most-honest-presidential-candidate.html


You two live in a backwards world, wrong is right.


About your video...http://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/crooked-claims-about-clinton/
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 18, 2016 - 02:51pm PT
I don't understand why most people will vote for Hillary or the Donald, when so many people are complaining about how bad they both are.

When you figure it out, let me know. I don't get it either.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 18, 2016 - 02:51pm PT
You two live in a backwards world, wrong is right.

And you live in a world where you believe some retards blog post over video and audio seen with your own eyes. Was that video deemed inauthentic? Of course not and you know it.

She's the elected elite, and you soak it up like a biscuit dipped in gravy. Just like Klimmer does with Donald's crap.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 18, 2016 - 02:56pm PT
"She's the elected elite, and you soak it up like a biscuit dipped in gravy. Just like Klimmer does with Donald's crap."


No not really, I don't think she was sent by God, she has changed on issues and is more qualified than the other candidates running.

But don't let fact check get in the way of your lies.
Norton

Social climber
May 18, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
When you repeat lies

Then you are a liar
dirtbag

climber
May 18, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
Like republicans who years ago bitched about the sunk cost of solyndra while ignoring the trillions lost in our Mideast debacles, trump supporters complaining about Hillary lying are either blind or ultra-hypocritical (probably the latter, for the most part).

Yeah, trump is a truth teller, alright.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 18, 2016 - 03:42pm PT


I don't understand why most people will vote for Hillary or the Donald, when so many people are complaining about how bad they both are.

When you figure it out, let me know. I don't get it either.


It's the tribal/team thing that so many hairless monkeys gravitate towards. Works every time for religion, politicians, team sports.

Nobody wants to vote for a losing tribe so they vote for the lesser criminal most closely associated with their favorite team color.

Now it's just devolved into a fake WWF gladiator arena.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 18, 2016 - 04:17pm PT
Hillary has seem 25 years of the kind of nonsense Klimmer posts. I doubt there's anything the rightwing extremists can drum now up that's going to give her much of a problem.

Question: You're in your final weeks of high school. One more final to take. You have to pass it or you'll flunk. No climbing trip, grounded instead. You need someone in your class to tutor you. 2 choices: Donald the playboy, who barely passes tests and brags about himself all day, or Hillary, the smart gal everyone pretends not to like because she gets straight A's and was accepted by 56 elite colleges....who's your tutor?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 18, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
In 2004, Hair Trumpf called up Penthouse to request a meeting with a model named Victoria Zdrok. Yes, Zdrok is a 'model,' soft-porn sex worker, etc... but she's also highly educated. Zdrok graduated from Pensacola Junior College in Florida at age 17 and West Chester University in Pennsylvania at age 18 with a B.A., earned a J.D. from Villanova University School of Law, and a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology from Drexel University. She also completed a post-doctoral qualification in sex therapy at the New Jersey School of Medicine.

They went out four times, she reported to Mediaite. Here is what she said about Hair Trumpf:

"First of all, he’s really arrogant. He’s really into himself! On a date all he does is talk about himself. He loves himself! The first thing he says to me on our date is that he’s taller and better looking than what he looks like in pictures, and that people don’t realize it. He said, ‘People don’t realize how handsome I am!’ He actually loves himself! I never met a more narcissistic person than Donald. You feel just like a piece of jewelry when you’re with him. For him it’s all about looks, appearances, and signing autographs. He just loves it."

Here's Trump's take on the whole deal recorded during a phone interview. Listen closely, Klimmer, this is the man you think God picked to be president:

[Click to View YouTube Video]

dirtbag

climber
May 18, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
Oh yeah, let's not forget, trump is pro-white nationalism. His supporters tend to be more racist than average Americans.

I guess God loves racism.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 18, 2016 - 05:22pm PT
A little piece on the accuracy of "Clinton Cash"

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/04/28/error-filled-book-clinton-cash-be-turned-movie-2016-election/210125
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 18, 2016 - 05:29pm PT
One reason things are so f-ed up is because people don't vote
They won't give their precious approval to anyone, and they think the system is too f-ed up to even bother

That is exactly what big money wants you to think
"They all suck, don't vote"

all the while they are prodding millions of dupes to vote for who ever they purposely don't smear, and hand millions over to promote their guy

They took over while people stood by, and gave up.
You have to vote to stop them, the big money that has taken over the media and propaganda.

They own the Republican Party, and they will own Trump or who ever the GOP puts up
You have to vote against them, not for something that doesn't exist, like a third party

You are not voting for a king, nor your personal savior
It's not that hard to vote, vote to save us from the right wing controlled big money
There is only one logical choice, you have to vote Blue all the way down to dog catcher
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 18, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
This is how fascism comes to America

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-how-fascism-comes-to-america/2016/05/17/

just a quote
This Trump phenomenon has arisen in other democratic and quasi-democratic countries over the past century, and it has generally been called “fascism.” Fascist movements, too, had no coherent ideology, no clear set of prescriptions for what ailed society. “National socialism” was a bundle of contradictions, united chiefly by what, and who, it opposed; fascism in Italy was anti-liberal, anti-democratic, anti-Marxist, anti-capitalist and anti-clerical. Successful fascism was not about policies but about the strongman, the leader (Il Duce, Der Fuhrer), in whom could be entrusted the fate of the nation. Whatever the problem, he could fix it. Whatever the threat, internal or external, he could vanquish it, and it was unnecessary for him to explain how. Today, there is Putinism, which also has nothing to do with belief or policy but is about the tough man who singlehandedly defends his people against all threats, foreign and domestic.


Breaking News
More extortion by the GOP,

GOP Senator Tries To Take Zika Money Hostage Over Obamacare Cuts

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-cornyn-zika-funding_us_573cb65ae4b0646cbeebd2b3
zBrown

Ice climber
May 18, 2016 - 06:07pm PT
Fox poll.

In addition, over half say the phrase “has strong moral values” does not describe Clinton (57 percent) or Trump (58 percent).

Usually, to validate such polls, a shill, for example, Rasputin, is thrown in to get a baseline. My informal poll has him coming in at 55%.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 18, 2016 - 06:49pm PT
Looks like Trump is under indictment for criminal activities

Trump University Fraud Suit Can Proceed, Appeals Court Rules

New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman had alleged education program had defrauded students

http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-university-fraud-suit-can-proceed-appeals-court-rules-1456858462
zBrown

Ice climber
May 18, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
Bernie Sanders is 74. What's he going to do? go back to the Senate.

Clinton and Sanders need to settle up their differences and run as a "package" if you'll excuse the term.

HRC could die and he would get his wish.

How's her health? Trump says she's weak. Who knows, WJC may kill her, he's killed nearly all his other foes, right.



Palin ... er ... Clinton-Sanders in 2016.




Far-fetched you say? You don't understand how badly Hillary wants it.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 18, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
Z, you've made my day.
kattz

climber
May 18, 2016 - 07:49pm PT
Trump supporters tend to be racist against anyone non-White?
Well, the leftists tend to be racist towards White race, including brainwashed dummies who're against own race, ridden by guilt for things they had been no part of. (the latter stems from suppressed daddy/mommy issues, usually)
zBrown

Ice climber
May 18, 2016 - 07:53pm PT


I hear ya braj.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 18, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
Well, the leftists tend to be racist towards White race...

Now there's a moronic statement.
kattz

climber
May 18, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
Nope, that's the truth about leftists....you can't hide from it.
Norton

Social climber
May 18, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 18, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
How old are you? lol
kattz

climber
May 18, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
'My dog started to take a crap twice more often, say what you want but I blame Trump! The poor thing must be sensing the horrible future to come! Fear!'
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 18, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
Wow, 8000+ posts.

This thread has legs.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 18, 2016 - 09:01pm PT
Whoa...... Let's step back for a moment. There are citizens of the United States of America who want Donald fuking Trump to be president? Think about this. Seriously think about who this man is. You want this man to have his finger over the button that could destroy the world? We've gone down the rabbit hole.... one pill makes you larger, one pill makes you small, and one pill doesn't do..... anything at all.

Damn, we're doomed. Fortunately I have a New Zealand passport. But most of you don't, and they ain't goin' to give you one neither. Nor is Canada. Think about this.
dirtbag

climber
May 18, 2016 - 09:37pm PT
This is how fascism comes to America

It should be noted that the author is a neocon, too.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
May 19, 2016 - 04:54am PT
Killer God thwarted by talking donkey. What an incredible story.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 19, 2016 - 06:08am PT
Whoa...... Let's step back for a moment. There are citizens of the United States of America who want Donald fuking Trump to be president? Think about this. Seriously think about who this man is.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 19, 2016 - 06:20am PT
Wow, 8000+ posts.

This thread has legs.

40 million years from now an Alien race will recover this discussion from a stone encased hard-drive.

...On their way to recover their ark on the moon.....

dirtbag

climber
May 19, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
Lol, klimmer do you ever read the articles you cite?

linton certainly laughs during the conversation but at no point does she laugh specifically about the sentence.

Still, Clinton’s recollections may strike some listeners as callous or cynical about the legal process, especially because she implies her client was guilty.

Kessler gives the ad's claim 3 Pinocchios. It's not quite a lie but it is fast and loose with the facts.


On the other hand, your post gets four Pinocchios. In other words,




d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
May 19, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
Ark on the moon guy,
you didn't froth up
some platitudes
for ANTI-christ trump
in your last post.

Your using the wrong
thread, promoter of
evil.

Duh trump is an ass
not a donkey.
Hold on to THAT truth.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 19, 2016 - 01:33pm PT
I encounter a logical fallacy often in economic discussion that I like to call "the grass is greener fallacy." People using that fallacious argument point out all the flaws of one side, and conclude that its alternative is better. Of course, this defies logic unless one compares the flaws of both alternatives.

In any election, but this one in particular, all the candidates have obvious flaws. I've found the backers of the "establishment" candidates of both parties (i.e. Hillary for the Dems, and, e.g., Kasich, Jeb Bush, Lindsay Graham, et al. for the Republicans) more willing to compare their candidates' weaknesses with those of their opponents. I've found less willingness of the "outsiders'" (i.e. Sanders for the Dems, and Trump, Cruz, Fiorina, Carson, et al. for the Reps) backers to engage in that kind of debate.

Trump makes a very easy target when looking for negatives. The guy supplies us new ones (or new evidence of existing ones) every day. So far, though, pointing those flaws out to his supporters has no effect on their loyalty. For that reason, if no other, it surprises me a bit that this thread really does have legs. I guess we like wasting our time in useless gestures.

John
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 19, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
'My dog started to take a crap twice more often, say what you want but I blame Trump! The poor thing must be sensing the horrible future to come! Fear!'

Maybe the poor thing is just not constipated any more.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
May 19, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
Can't make this stuff up


and yet, they still do....
zBrown

Ice climber
May 19, 2016 - 01:45pm PT

All the wording came from actual political handouts by supporters of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams in 1800.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 19, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
I'm not sure I believe this....but

[quote]Members of the conservative intelligentsia aching for a Republican to run independent against Trump have concluded that there is “a difficult but viable path” for an independent, based largely on the unusual unpopularity of the two nominees. A well-known conservative told us the final three possibilities are Sen. Ben Sasse, age 44, of Nebraska; Sen. Tom Coburn, 68, of Wyoming; and Mitt Romney, 69.

This conservative told us to expect renewed buzz around this possibility over the next week, and sees “a 50-50 chance that one of the three will do it.”



Read more: http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/breaking-three-republicans-ready-enter-presidential-race-challenge-trump-president/#ixzz498Y7i2D2[/quote]
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 19, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
Trump has no plan for moving America forward.

Trump's plan is to go back in time, to the "good old days".




Here are some of his stated goals for returning America to a prior era:


MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

ADOPT AN ISOLATIONIST FOREIGN POLICY

BRING AMERICAN JOBS BACK FROM CHINA

MINIMIZE OR ELIMINATE ISLAM IN AMERICA

MINIMIZE OR ELIMINATE LATINO IMMIGRANTS

INTIMIDATE OTHER NATIONS WITH AN AGGRESSIVE MILITARY BUILD-UP

ESCALATE AN INTERNATIONAL NUCLEAR ARMS RACE

USE AMERICAN MILITARY TO SEIZE OTHER NATIONS' RESOURCES


skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 19, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
Benghazi!!!!
dirtbag

climber
May 19, 2016 - 03:31pm PT
Donald Trump will help make our Nation great again

























































































skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 19, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
Klimmer. If you were in MY class and you answered two questions like these...


INTIMIDATE OTHER NATIONS WITH AN AGGRESSIVE MILITARY BUILD-UP

False lie. He does want to make our military stronger again. Under Obama its been weakened unbelievably. Why is that? What's Obama's purpose in weakening our nation?


ESCALATE AN INTERNATIONAL NUCLEAR ARMS RACE

False lie. Ask yourself why would Hillary as Secretary of State help sign off on the Uranium mine deal with Russia and The Clinton Foundation then get a huge donation from the same?


I would give you ZERO on each answer. We are talking about Trump and what he wants to do. Not Obama. Not Clinton. You are just spewing.

Edit; So, in other words, False lie. That's fine, but now support that conclusion.

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 19, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
Wouldn't a false lie actually make it true?
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 19, 2016 - 03:54pm PT
Unfortunately, that's not the way I think. If you think something is false about Donald, I'd like to know why you think so. Not what Hillary did (that which I already know about). And Obama."What's Obama's purpose in weakening our nation?" ...look I don't believe for a second that he is purposefully doing that. That is not a planned objective. It's more a matter of his team not knowing what the heck to do. They can't even cajole the republicans, so how are they going to deal with antagonists world wide.


You all seem to think these people actually have a hard and fast plan and are sticking to it. Did you not read about the Cuban Missile crises, or Bay of Pigs? These guys are flying by the seat of their pants at times.

Edit; I suppose many of you don't remember doing nuclear attack drills, where you hide under a wooden desk for protection. Even then I was thinking survival was all about luck if it actually happened. When you read about what actually happened during that period, how close we were to war. Man, enjoy each day you have. Say I love you to those who are important to you every day you can. That sum it up? Yup, by the seat of the pants.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
May 19, 2016 - 04:25pm PT
The last guy that boasted, like the Donald constantly does- "Back off, I got this!" Was George W- that didn't exactly go according to plan. None the less, there will always be men that need to suck on other men's mojo for a little turn on. Thanks guys, for giving us "cool guy to drink a beer with" Bush- Mission Accomplished!

Like Daddy Bush wisely did in the lead-up to the first Gulf War, most leaders would say "We've got this", which isn't much of a turn on for the guys that swoon for Donald and his bravado.

When Obama says "Go ahead dipsh#t- you got this" as in; the middle East dealing with ISIS or Europe dealing with Putin- these guys have complete fuking mojo crisis meltdowns.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
May 19, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
After she received a settlement
Norton

Social climber
May 19, 2016 - 05:22pm PT
Correct

He paid her to shut up about it

Laugh that one off god boy
zBrown

Ice climber
May 19, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
Ivana set the record straight ...

The problem with this is, that it then becomes the reader's option to determine whether she lied the first time or the second.

Then you consider how much bribery went down, on which occasion she was under oath and choose accordingly.

Even G&%$0*D knows that.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 19, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
Klim Jones.

Feckin' Brennan for the win!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 19, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
Yes, simply juvenile. And advanced minds like yours believe in an arc on the moon and that god has cast his personal vote for Drumpf.....

Got it.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
May 19, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
What's juvenile is you thinking
you speak for gawd and trump
is doing gawds work.

Not quiet as juvenile as claiming
there's an arc on the moon tho.

Keep up with the palsied
jaw hasping. It's fun to
watch your credibility
wither from every word
you type.

Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 19, 2016 - 07:00pm PT
And only the intelligent class will survive as they don't burn .......


Curt
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 19, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
May 19, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
Women who go through divorce often lie under oath in divorce court due to emotional turmoil, anger, misplaced vengeance to try to hurt their former spouse.

Men do not do this sort of thing, but yes it can be easily done.



Even so, I wonder if they doit as a group as Klimner claims.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 19, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
So Klimmer, what's your take on the Cliven Bundy stuff and the Oregon takeover? Were they acting for G_d? Does Trump support them? Do they support Trump? I just saw where one of the conspirators, Corey Lequieu, has pleaded guilty to using force, intimidation and threats to impede federal officers at the Malheur national wildlife refuge standoff. Please tie all this together, as I'm getting confused.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 19, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 19, 2016 - 10:45pm PT
http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/05/17/tom-ridge-donald-trump/
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
May 19, 2016 - 11:21pm PT
It's funny how you all engage with people like Klimmer - they are so burnt up with the fire of their beliefs every other way is consumption and the fire of Hell.

You all buy into it so easily - the distraction must be so titillating...
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 20, 2016 - 03:03am PT
It might be time for a musical interlude.



Like an intermission - - - - - - - - - - - Just listen to how Ricky Wilson ROCKED IT.






[Click to View YouTube Video]







I can't get enough of this.

I am a fool, trying to play this on my guitar.




The tuning of the guitar is weird.

The playing of the guitar is weird.




Weirdos need to be purged???????



I kinda like the weirdo aspect of society.



I want to embrace "weirdo" people.

My life experience is better.



healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 20, 2016 - 05:04am PT
Klimmer perfectly represents the critical ability to suspend reality so necessary to becoming a trump supporter.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 20, 2016 - 05:40am PT
For anyone to support either major steaming pile in this circus requires the same vast reservoir of denial. Klimmer might believe in nefarious large-headed aliens, but believing that Hillary is a decent human being worthy of any position in authority is equally skewed.



crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 20, 2016 - 06:26am PT
fear, your handle is perfect.
dirtbag

climber
May 20, 2016 - 07:17am PT
Does she beat teenage boys or something?


Yes. Darrell Issa and Trey Gowdy are getting to the bottom of it right now.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 20, 2016 - 07:32am PT



Fear crankloon said ur hands are so perfect...kool aid
dirtbag

climber
May 20, 2016 - 08:43am PT
Lol, Cherry picking polls, I see.

Anyway, apparently, your man trump says "who the hell cares if there is a trade war [with China?"

Well, an estimated 4 million American workers who would likely lose their jobs would probably care greatly.

I guess making America great = plunging the US into a recession.


http://www.vox.com/2016/5/20/11719594/donald-trump-trade-wars
divad

Trad climber
wmass
May 20, 2016 - 08:51am PT
If Trump wins, the only thing that will be great again is SNL..
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 20, 2016 - 08:56am PT
"Making SNL Great Again"

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 20, 2016 - 09:31am PT
I wonder what God thinks of this guy?

Paul Craig Cobb, a big supporter of Donald Trump. I wonder why he's such a big fan of The Hair?



















Most recently known for his attempt to take over Leith ND, by buying property, putting out the call to White supremacist groups to come join him, deeding property to the National Socialist Movement, Tom Metzger and Linder.
[Click to View YouTube Video]







[Click to View YouTube Video]





While recently doing a story about known White Supremacist Craig Cobb, ABC producer Jasmine Brown and anchor Byron Pitts were subject to hateful tirades and now the story has been brought to life through a produced video by timesXtwo.

The source of the rhetoric is hardly a surprise once you dig deeper into the man himself; after all, the video shows Cobb saying, “I’m one of the most famous racists in the world you son of a bitch.” Brown, who is African American, notes that Cobb seemed “incredibly gracious” when they first spoke on the phone, presumably before he knew her race.


“He is very much in love with Donald Trump,” adds Brown. She continues to describe a line of Cobb’s saying, “I would almost rather talk to a Jew, because then at least they would be intelligent.” The video reveals the emotional toll on Brown, a twenty-something Millennial, experiencing this level of overt racism for the first time.


But when anchor Byron Pitts gets Cobb on the phone, the heated rhetoric really takes a turn.

You’re not a person of color N*! You’re a N*! You got it? You’re a N*!… Listen there’s an unbridled race war going on in this country Ann Coutler said there’s at least 30 million Mexicans in this country, Byron, and they don’t have any business here.

Well if he hadn’t won the argument with his n-word references, he certainly did it by invoking Ann Coulter.

In 2013 Mediaite reported about Cobb’s efforts to buy up properties and encourage fellow white supremacists to move to a neighborhood in Leith, North Dakota. Later that year, Cobb appeared as a guest on The Trisha Show with host Trisha Goddard; a DNA test revealed that the white supremacist is actually 14-percent Sub-Saharan African.



Wait til you hear him addressing Byron Pitts directly.
[Click to View YouTube Video]







[Click to View YouTube Video]
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 20, 2016 - 09:46am PT
What makes her an indecent human? You know, concrete, justifiable criticisms, not dark shadows and hints of corruption leveled by those who seek to destroy her political career. Got any real beef you can point to we cal all see blinking in the bright sunshine, out there for everyone to see?

You know, something real....

Good question, don't expect an answer though.

Curt
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 20, 2016 - 10:12am PT
Curt, Hillary was one of the major proponents to invading Libya in 2011 followed by the assassination of Qaddafi. A fact which you can listen to her cackle and laugh about it on some interview she did.

Those same weapons and CIA/spec-op trained mercenaries (i.e. the 'good' "rebels") wound up in Syria again being used by our same regime to attack Assad.

Libya and Syria are doing wonderfully as a result if you haven't noticed.

Although she didn't come up with the plan, she's a proven member of the neocon club that's gotten us mired in the ME and just about everywhere else in the globe over the past 60 years...

She's a sociopath with a track record of murder who will do the bidding of her masters.

She's perfect in other words!

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 20, 2016 - 10:26am PT
Sure it was. Providing heavy weapons, training, and tactical support to mobs and mercenaries on the ground while flying air support bombing the sh!t of Qaddafi until he's murdered falls under "invasion" in my book.

Norton

Social climber
May 20, 2016 - 10:29am PT
Hi fear,

well, seeing as how you hate Hillary Clinton

are you going to sit this election out or will you write in yourself?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 20, 2016 - 10:37am PT
I'm open to suggestions Norton. But voting for either of these idiots isn't in the cards for me.

The fact that we have this circus this bad is a sign we're far past 'voting' our way out of this trajectory.

I also don't "hate" her or Trump. That would require energy... I'm just pointing out the facts.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 20, 2016 - 10:42am PT
"Hillary was one of the major proponents to invading Libya in 2011 ... she's a proven member of the neocon club ... She's a sociopath with a track record of murder..." -fear

Every thread here has its clowns and crazies.
Depressing.


Go Hillary
Yes, I love to see Sanders as VP as well.
Norton

Social climber
May 20, 2016 - 10:52am PT
The only solution, since we all know everything

Is to write in ourselves for President

Oh boy, wait til the vetting starts!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 20, 2016 - 10:55am PT
It's a complex world and region, DMT.

I'd suggest investing a few minutes to read this...

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2013/12/was-hillary-clinton-a-good-secretary-of-state-john-kerry-2016-100766?o=2
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 20, 2016 - 10:58am PT
So Klimmer, direct question. Where does Craig Cobb fit into God's plan for Trump?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 20, 2016 - 11:02am PT
Can't say I disagree with this analysis.

Of course you can't.

//It's a complex world and region, DMT...
I'd suggest investing a few minutes to read this...//

He doesn't invest in deeper analysis.
He's too busy posting.

I didn't lay the blame at her feet -dmt

sure you did.


she is certainly part of the same manifest destiny American machine

We all are, Mr Monkeywrench.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 20, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
Why not use a fair poll that doesn't have an axe to grind?

Why not use them all?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

Curt
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 20, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
Klimmer, Cobb and other racists are linked with Trump because of his Muslim and Immigration remarks whether you like it or not. I'm sure you remember the robo calls from the NH primary, and Trump's inability to disavow David Duke because he "didn't know who he was."

For you to pretend that there's no linkage is silly.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 20, 2016 - 01:02pm PT
The only solution, since we all know everything

Is to write in ourselves for President

Oh boy, wait til the vetting starts!

Norton, I sure as hell wouldn't want the position. You seem like a bright guy and probably don't either.

The solution lies in fixing the fundamental corruption that rots underneath all of D.C. That kind of overhaul cannot be accomplished within the current system. It's like changing the oil on a motor with a broken crankshaft.

Picking a new MSM elected political puppet to stick on the ceremonial top of the whole rotten mess every 8 years doesn't do a thing. If anything voting at the federal level with these two clowns legitimizes a broken system.

But it does make for a good circus.






Norton

Social climber
May 20, 2016 - 01:03pm PT

fear/hope 2016 !
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
May 20, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 20, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
I'm extremely curious to see Trump's tax returns. Maybe he doesn't pay any tax at all. Klimmer, how say you on the tax returns? Every candidate for the last 40 years has released at least a summary return. Clinton has released tax returns for the last couple of decades.

What's he hiding Klimmer? And none of that 'he's being audited' bullshite; that doesn't stop him from releasing them.
dirtbag

climber
May 20, 2016 - 01:12pm PT
He will make America great again!


Norton

Social climber
May 20, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
So what do you see as the solution to the problem you describe?

self deportation
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 20, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
cheers,
dmt

lol
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 20, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
From our position as plebes I don't see a simple solution.

It's easy to say burn the whole thing down but that doesn't work since it'd leave a huge vacuum behind historically filled by something worse.

It's probably better to focus our plebeian energy on very local governments where some modicum of change might actually be implemented. Educating people not to be afraid of everything we're told to be afraid of is good. Teaching people to spot propaganda as best we can...

Everything being cyclical, the current system will likely collapse on it's own. But like the boot flake, who knows when!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 20, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
Wow. Insightful.

In the meantime....
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 20, 2016 - 01:40pm PT
HFCS...

In the meantime.... carry on with this thread.

10k posts and Chris hands out prizes.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 20, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
Ms. Clinton said exactly the same things Romney said in his speech, but I believe her number was 47.5%. I have the tape.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 20, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
Donald is fear base, playing to lowest denominator. Hillary wins and wins fairly big.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 20, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
Hillary's speeches weren't given in secret. Hundreds of people were there and could, and would relate what she talked about if there was anything at all interesting to report. Release them or not, no big deal.

Only Donald and his lawyers know what he's hiding by refusing to release his tax returns, unlike every other presidential candidate.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 20, 2016 - 04:24pm PT
You're probably right, winemaker. The reason he lied about releasing them is he probably pays no taxes.

Muslim ban? Nah, that's just a suggestion.
The wall? Maybe it's a virtual wall.
Deportation? Mmm, probably rhetorical.
Self-funded campaign? You kidding?

This clown just makes it up every single day. His idea of the truth is whatever last came out of his ignorant mouth. Hard to imagine so many gullible people amongst us.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 20, 2016 - 04:36pm PT
All this "discussion" doesn't matter much at this point. It's many months before the election, yet already people have pretty much made up their minds. Certainly the participants in this thread have made up their minds, and there's no "discussion" that's going to change minds in this context.

So, now it amounts to one of two things:

1) Hearing oneself talk to oneself and thinking: "My arguments are entirely compelling to 'rational people,' so anybody that can't get it based on what I'm saying is an idiot." This amounts to intellectual masturbation: It feels good to the talker, but isn't edifying anybody else.

2) Being part of the "agrees-with-me" circle-jerk. This is shared intellectual masturbation: Everybody in the circle is getting a good feeling, but all the "idiots" not in the circle look on in amazement that anybody can be getting a good feeling.

People in (1) are largely addicted to the effort to extract validation of their opinions from "the opposition." Such validation is not gonna happen, so you'll just have to live with the "pleasure" of knowing that you know that you know that you're right.

People in (2) are largely addicted to the pervasive sense of superiority and validation that emerges from the echo-chamber. Because they don't have to "convince" anybody to feel validated, the echo is sufficient for satisfaction. The echos let you know that you're right.

The nation is totally polarized, with virtually everybody voting "against" what they see as "the other" party, and with most independents already decided. The election will basically amount to nothing more than a "poll" of the actually-voting population to show us how "left" or "right" the (bare) majority is. The electoral college will likely not even reflect the popular vote. LOL
zBrown

Ice climber
May 20, 2016 - 04:44pm PT
The IRS has all his tax records that he has also been subjected to audit for the last 12 years. What other candidate has ever been subjected to audits like he has? You know they are legit since he's been audited by the IRS.

What other candidate claims (untruthfully) to be worth 10 Billion dollars?

Trump could release the results of the prior eleven audits at the same time he releases the tax returns.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 20, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
Trump is a creep and liar.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-paid-federal-taxes-government-report-shows/story?id=39259669
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 20, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
I know this is a bit off topic, but I ran across an interview with a Pentacostal Minister, Jerry Dewitt, who had given up religion and become atheist. Very interesting and thoughtful answers that when put in a political context possibly indicate why self proclaimed religious persons would support Trump.

the article is here: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/why-a-pentecostal-preacher-gave-up-on-jesus-and-became-an-atheist-activist/

Here's one small exchange that some insight into judgmental religious people:

(GC is Greta Christina, the interviewer and JD is Jerry Dewitt)

GC: I was surprised to learn that, when your ministry shifted from focusing on religious doctrine towards simply helping other people, you got so much resistance from so many of your congregants. When you wanted your church to help Katrina victims, you got serious pushback from people who thought Katrina was God’s judgment.

Do you think a focus on doctrine and supernatural belief often interferes with people’s impulse to help each other? Or is it just human nature—some people are more compassionate, and some are more judgmental, regardless of whether they’re believers or atheists?

JD: Maybe a little of both. My experience in the ministry taught me that personality plays a far great role in people’s decisions and behaviors than most of us give it credit for. Personality types seem to be drawn to the theological worldview that suits them best. Judgmental people favor judgmental world views, believers and atheist alike.

And:

GC. You talk about that a lot in the book: the feeling you had that if your faith were stronger, your life wouldn’t be so hard, or that if you could just find a missing piece of the puzzle of doctrine, your doubts about your faith would clear up and you could be a better leader.Can you talk about that? How did the comfort and the guilt religion provides play out for you, and for the people around you?

JD: Many times the comfort religion offers comes at a very high price. This form of comfort is at the same time both temporally present and linked to an uncertain moment in the future. I’ll use the doctrine of Healing as an example. If you are ill, you may be comforted by the idea that God can heal you and may very well do so…one of these days. For some, this is more comforting then “knowing” you don’t know what the future truly holds.

The exorbitant price that is paid at the very same time that a measure of comfort is received is the emotional abuse one silently suffers while trying to receive/earn the promised Healing. Knowing that God could heal you immediately, but doesn’t, naturally causes the believer to ask, “Why not?” “What do I need to do to better please God?” “Is it God’s will for me to suffer?” “What’s God’s purpose in allowing this illness in my life?” The list goes on and on.

Well worth a read.
dirtbag

climber
May 20, 2016 - 05:11pm PT
Klimmer, have you ever heard of the term "propaganda"?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 20, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
That's not fair, Locker.

The Clintons probably sought out Donald for that picture.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 20, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
Intellectual masturbation?

You oughta know MB, wall of text.

The whole Trump candidacy is a masturbatory celebration of Trump's narcissism.

I will continue to speak out about what I see as an evil racist egomaniac fear monger. This thread will last til November. Best settle in for a long ride. But counsel away if you must. Trump is still an ignorant dick.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
May 20, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 20, 2016 - 05:48pm PT
Trump is still an ignorant dick.

Yes, yes, and by the same level of preponderance of evidence, Clinton is a criminal.

There. We've both jerked off in front of each other. It was good for me. Was it good for you?
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
May 20, 2016 - 06:11pm PT

Ready for Donald ?

My God - the answer may be yes.

This is like the Joker in Batman taking over the city...

Regarding using nuclear weapons:

"I am not pulling any cards off the table."
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 20, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Yes, he could start a nuclear war. The generals would resist, but one might not.

Norton

Social climber
May 20, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
At this point in time Bernie Sanders is only hurting the Democrats chances in November.

He has turned into a bleating, bitter, angry old man crying just like Trump how the "rules" are against him and "unfair"

His speeches are nothing more than warmed over Marxist Class Warfare, rich against poor, 1% against you and I, Billionaire class against all of us, on and on, nothing new.

I like Bernie personally as a man but he has had his moment in the sun and now needs to admit defeat, mostly shut up, and realize that he is a Fake Democrat and pack his bags.

This election is about Donald Trump and guyman, pyro, Cosmic, madbolter and couchmaster, etc

how they adore their manly man and will work real hard to help him win in November

because politics is about believing in the principles and policies of who you vote for!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 20, 2016 - 07:05pm PT

May 20, 2016 - 06:11pm PT

Ready for Donald ?

My God - the answer may be yes.

This is like the Joker in Batman taking over the city...

Regarding using nuclear weapons:

"I am not pulling any cards off the table."

My theory is there will be less nuclear fallout in the Southern Hemisphere.

I've narrowed my choices to two neighborhoods in Buenos Aires.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 20, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
politics is about believing in the principles and policies of who you vote for

In this case, it's much more about believing opposed to who we're voting against.

If you think that the Democrats can put up somebody like Clinton and have independents just get in line, you are mistaken. If the Democrats can't see their way clear to giving us a better alternative to Trump than Clinton, well, they have nobody to blame but themselves if Trump ends up elected.

Your side feels the same way about Trump. This is not a "principled" election, and you cannot pretend that it is. Clinton is everything about Wall Street and Big Corps that you claim to hate. But she's "Democrat" and "not-Trump," so she's your candidate.

For at least half of America, Trump is "not-Democrat" and "not-Clinton."

Nobody has any moral high-ground here. Both parties decided that fact for us in this election cycle.
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
May 20, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
I hereby challenge "Wall-O-Text MB1" to post to the minimalist thread.

5 words max.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
May 20, 2016 - 07:41pm PT
DMT wrote: What makes her an indecent human? You know, concrete, justifiable criticisms, not dark shadows and hints of corruption leveled by those who seek to destroy her political career. Got any real beef you can point to we cal all see blinking in the bright sunshine, out there for everyone to see?



you are correct that by the standard of "concrete and justifiable", there is nothing and what is out there must therefore only be due to those who are trying to destroy her...

just as by the standard of "concrete and justifiable" there were no actual flames and the smoke that surrounded Lance Armstrong prior to 2012 was all just due to jealousy from the french press...

he was the most tested athlete in the history of the sport they said...

and he's never failed a test they said... /s



because while i don't have time to list all of the smoke that surrounds clinton, it will suffice to say that it started at least in 1978 with $1000 invested in cattle futures that, against all mathematical odds, was turned into $100000 over the course of ten months and it is ongoing with the clinton foundation accepting millions of dollars from foreign governments at the exact same time that clinton was secretary of state and handing out arms deals to the same foreign governments...

but i know: she's the most scrutinized politician in the history of governance...

and so for those that think that apparent shady business deals are just right wing conspiracies and/or are just the nature of the game at that level, then one needs to continue the task at hand by looking through the smoke onto, and then ignoring, the ashes left behind a politician who has consistently and regularly been wrong [by her own future admission] on too many substantive policy issues over the last 30 years: foreign policy [iraq, libya]; crime [bring them to heel]; gay marriage; and again and again...

and once one is done with accepting and rationalizing all of the above, one has to complete the fear factor styled voter's challenge by accepting and swallowing that in the very recent past, a private server was created due only to naivety, and it only held info about chelsea's wedding and yoga schedules [until it didn't]...




and so maybe you are okay with saying well, that's the way the game is played at this level...

or maybe you are okay believing that all of the smoke is just due to those who are out to destroy her...

either way, if one can swallow all of the above, then for sure one should vote for her [and given the choice between clinton and trump, one should probably vote for her regardless, but that is a separate issue]



because in all truthfulness, it is theoretically possible: it could all just be smoke.

just as prior to 2012, it was theoretically possible that in a field of known cheaters armstrong could have been the super human one: he was after all the most tested man in the history of sport...



all i can really say to a willingness to ignore and/or rationalize that much smoke and that high a pile of ashes: best of luck with that...

and i look forward to discussing with you all, the results of the, what at this point appears to be, inevitable result of that ignoring and rationalizing, after clinton's first four year term...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 20, 2016 - 07:44pm PT
Spoiled brats demanding some fantasy person to save the country, pretending they have a clue where the moral high ground is.

They don't know who this "principled" mythical savior is, but when they find him/her it's going to be a magical day.

Maybe a reality TV show to choose the president, ala, the Apprentice?
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
May 20, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
^^It is a pretty crazy delusion, IMO.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 20, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
I hereby challenge "Wall-O-Text MB1" to post to the minimalist thread.

Wall-o-text = badge of honor.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 20, 2016 - 08:49pm PT
The USA is divided 50-50 politically. Why should any citizen give 2 shits about the microbial level independents hold politically?

Independents count among that split. It's gonna be close enough that they matter.
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
May 20, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
That was pretty good for a maximalist!
MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
May 20, 2016 - 09:13pm PT
^^Burn it.


Burn it all...

Or Bern it.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 20, 2016 - 09:20pm PT
Wow, nah000, that's a lot of speculation in a short space. Apply the same test to Trump.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 20, 2016 - 09:29pm PT
At this point eight years ago, the democratic race was much tighter and maybe even a little more tense, four years ago at this point Obama was one point behind Rommey in the polls, look how those two races turned out.


Had to post this..taken off the internet and somewhere in Texas.

zBrown

Ice climber
May 20, 2016 - 10:33pm PT
Not a question of national security in either case.

It's all how much money they are hoping goes into their pockets.

Has Trump mentioned which of his companies he wants to build the Great Wall of america?

Will Cheney get a cut?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 21, 2016 - 06:21am PT
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/20/politics/trump-veterans-6-million-not-raised/index.html

f*#king liar.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 21, 2016 - 07:28am PT
Dumb Donald has the white, male vote wrapped around his bigoted (little) finger, no doubt.
Haters gonna hate.

Gee, so surprised the racist NRA endorsed Dumb Donald. I'm sure they'll forget the fact he was against them only recently.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 21, 2016 - 08:02am PT
the dangerous acceptance of donald trump...

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-dangerous-acceptance-of-donald-trump

"He’s not Hitler, as his wife recently said? Well, of course he isn’t. But then Hitler wasn’t Hitler—until he was. At each step of the way, the shock was tempered by acceptance."
John M

climber
May 21, 2016 - 08:25am PT
Klimmer, you want so much for there to be a savior that you have become blind. Donald Trump is a liar and an egomaniac. That preacher you posted to awhile back got it wrong. God can certainly use Trump, but not in the way that preacher said. If Trump becomes president, he isn't going to expose the problems in our government out of some sense of goodwill. He will expose the problems by being such a large problem himself that we can't help but see our own greed and lasciviousness. And we will see it in the rest of our leadership. Thats how it will become exposed, because it will become obvious. Just like Clinton exposed the hypocrites in our leadership.. who claim to be Christians, and crucified Clinton for having an affair, all the while having affairs themselves, yet maintaining that they were good Christians. You claim Hillary is terrible for standing by her man, and you hate Bill for having an affair. Well what about Trump's affairs? and what about the possibility that Newt Gingrich being on Trump's list for VP.. another person who had long term affairs? You so much want a savior, that you have become blind. I understand that desire, but please don't let it blind you anymore.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 21, 2016 - 08:42am PT
Not in the case of enlisted military folk

My comment was directed mainly toward the Border Patrollers and NRA.

I have some thoughts on the military too. I'll get back to you after I discuss it with Ron Anderson and Herr Braun. However, it is safe to say that Trump is "promising" to take care of everybody military_wise including vets, enlisted, the brass and Cheney's companies.

Over and out.

or

Over under sideways down.

Amendment: A guy who lived one half block down the street me BITD and his buddy (both went to my high school, the buddy joined the CIA) bilked the military for a ton by bribing Duke Cunningham and other members of Congress. Finally got caught.

One of [Brent] Wilkes's companies received more than $80 million in Pentagon contracts over the past decade that stemmed from earmarks that Cunningham slipped into spending bills.


John M

climber
May 21, 2016 - 08:42am PT
Crankster deleted a post between mine and Werners posts.. so Werner is not pointing at my post.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 21, 2016 - 08:44am PT
Just editing, John. I can't improve on your post.

He will expose the problems by being such a large problem himself that we can't help but see our own greed and lasciviousnes

He won't be elected, but even if he was can you imagine the day-to-day with this guy? He isn't "evolving" on issues, he makes it up every day. Loose cannon doesn't even come close. He has no core beliefs, only whatever he thinks will benefit him on any given day.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 21, 2016 - 09:06am PT

Yeah that's the cross section of society I want to associate with and glorify. Well played Bob, looks like a bunch of you guys are really showing your true colors now that whistling past the graveyard is no longer a viable strategy.
John M

climber
May 21, 2016 - 09:50am PT
He won't be elected

Hopefully not.. but I don't believe that you are not reading the tea leaves very well. The level of dissatisfaction in the country is pretty high. And Hillary represents the status quo, those in power who helped create the mess that we currently have.

Please understand, I do not support Bernie.. He is too pie in the sky. But this is way I see it possibly happening.

Bernie represents dissatisfaction on the liberal side of the coin. That dissatisfaction is pretty high. People have been holding their noses and voting for the "parties" choice for quite some time. I voted for Obama only because I believed he was a better choice then the other side offered. I did not believe in his "hope and change". Contrary to what the media posted, many people held their noses and voted for Obama. People are getting tired of doing that. So there is that dissatisfaction. Trump is running on that same dissatisfaction, but with those on the other side of the coin.

So how I see it possibly happening is those who support Bernie saying they will stay home if Hillary is the nominee. If enough of them actually do, then Trump could win.

Or.. if the super delegates who are said they will vote for Hillary change their minds during the convention, which I believe they are allowed to do and which Norton is forgetting, and decide that Bernie has a better chance then Hillary, maybe because Hillary is charged by the FBI, ( I don't believe that she has friends there) then it comes down to Bernie versus Trump.. and I agree with those who say he hasn't been torn apart by the media yet, his socialist background will destroy him. and that Gives Trump another chance to win.

There are also lots of other things that are driving this. For instance, one reason Werner calls you a Crankloon, is that you push forward so strongly that you turn people off. You ignore their dissatisfaction. Yesterday you said you would listen to my concerns, then you quickly jumped on Healyje's insult of anyone who supports Bernie, and I believe that this is a big mistake. Because Bernie supporters aren't just wanting to hold their nose and vote, even though that might be wise. They are tired of the status quo and might stubbornly or wisely, depending on your point of view, stay home if Hillary is the nominee. So do you get someone to hold their nose and vote for Hillary by berating those peoples intelligence? Will that work? I doubt that. Berating them will just harden them to their position.

Werner called you a Crankloon early in this process because he could see you blindly going for Hillary and ignoring the dissatisfaction with this choice. At some point it is possible that that dissatisfaction will strengthen enough to split the vote. It has happened before.

So there is plenty going on. Change is in the air. Will it be good change? Only Time will tell. I believe we have some bumpy roads ahead of us.

Yesterday, DMT on the Bernie thread, said that the only way to get real change was for things to get a whole lot worse then they are now. Perhaps one or two steps worse then when Bush left office. Trump would do that. My problem with that is what change will happen.. will people wake up and start paying more attention, and or will those in power double down, which I believe that they will, and things get even worse. Which could even take this country down completely. I don't want that. But I do want people to wake up. Not only to our leaderships greed and lust for power and their selfishness, but to each persons own greed, lust for power, and selfishness. People's hearts are fairly hard right now and the only time they soften is in an emergency.

We get the leaders we deserve. Hillary represents the status quo.. no real change. Incremental possibly, but also open to being shifted back by the other side. So not really change. Its people not wanting to risk anything and is in reflected in how few actually got up and fought against the war in Iraq by going to marches. People are complacent. They are willing to hold their noses. They have most of what they want, and they don't see the problems, or are unwilling to fight for change, until they are faced with something like a major health issue, or with one of their family members being faced with a major health problem. or they are unfairly caught in the cross hairs of something like the IRS. Then they become willing to fight harder.

or...they just decide to stay home and not vote. Which candidate will benefit most by that? I believe its Trump.


High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 21, 2016 - 10:06am PT
"one reason Werner calls you a Crankloon, is that you push forward so strongly..."

lol


tell me, why would you ruin and otherwise fine post with needless reference to two of this site's major major jackasses, dip and ding. Seems to me to point to two holes - if not in your reason then in your passion. No accting for taste, I guess.

Carry on, crankster.

(Bern for VP!)



Ps,

once again it seems I've been distracted from a s vs r post
because of politics/climber punditry. Auggh!
John M

climber
May 21, 2016 - 10:24am PT
You left off something HFCS..

that you turn people off. You ignore their dissatisfaction.

your hatred of Werner and Dingus blinds you to the rest of what I said, which is the important part..
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 21, 2016 - 10:30am PT
your hatred of Werner and Dingus...

(1) I called it an otherwise fine post! :)

(2) and it's not a "hatred" - you passionately religious people
should get over that word.

(edit: and insofar as you are NOT a christian, then why lapse into their butthurtness/ defensiveness only to use their favorite talking points word?)

.....

Moreover...

Speak for yourself.

He doesn't turn people off. He speaks in agreement with them.

And he doesn't ignore others' dissatisfaction as far as he posts, he takes
them into acct. Which is probably why he's so passionate.


Passion is good - It is a good thing
when employed in productive directions.

(In medicine, it's known to discover cures for disease.)

You need to reassess. imo
dirtbag

climber
May 21, 2016 - 10:30am PT
How about some good news?

By leaps and bounds, Hillary's campaign is better organized than Trump's.


Through the end of last month, the period covered by the most recent FEC filings, Trump’s campaign had spent less than a third as much Clinton’s ($57 million to $182 million) and had assembled a staff about one-tenth the size of her (70 employees to 732), with a fraction as many offices (Trump last month paid $101,000 in rent vs. $328,000 for Clinton), the analysis found.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/trumps-campaign-dwarfed-by-clintons-223438
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 21, 2016 - 10:37am PT
All right, I take it back since it was under-appreciated...

It's not a fine post.
John M

climber
May 21, 2016 - 10:53am PT
hatred, disdain. whichever. It caused you to leave off the important part of my quote..

And I respectfully disagree with you. Crankster has a history of shouting over the top of others opinions by posting over and over the same thing.. Its Hillary.. Its Hillary.. Its Hillary.. over and over. drowning them out, which shows that he doesn't want to discuss. He wants to overpower. That causes there to be no real discussion. So what Werner has done is magnify that.. making it even more obvious. Do I agree with Werners methods? not entirely, as I have pointed out to him.. though I do understand them.

My proof is Cranksters agreement with Healyje. First he says he wants to listen to me.. then he expresses disdain, contempt for those who prefer Bernie, proving that he didn't really want to hear me.. he just wanted another chance to say. Its Hillary.. Its hillary Its Hillary. Bernie sucks.. Bernie Sucks .. Bernie sucks..

He didn't even hear what I had to say about Bernies campaign forcing the powers that be to pay more attention to the background. They can't just force their chosen one down peoples throats. Because more and more people are refusing to swallow.

Call it passion if you want. The point is that whatever drives it, the end result is that he overpowers the conversation and no real discussion happens. ( which is why he then has to go back and edit out posts)
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 21, 2016 - 11:04am PT
"Yeah that's the cross section of society I want to associate with and glorify. Well played Bob, looks like a bunch of you guys are really showing your true colors now that whistling past the graveyard is no longer a viable strategy."


Yes this photo you have in your collection is much better. Just oozing with class. You are hypocrite.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 21, 2016 - 11:23am PT
HFCS, I respect you...

:)

sorry, brother, I have no desire whatsoever to get along with Werner,
zero, nada, zilch,....


not much more for dingus after all of his baseless and/or shallow potshots over the years.

Listen what other people think about you.

I am glad to be in a minority at this site,

lastest evidence/incentive - the shallow (edit: groupthink) posting (edit: dated: c 20May16) on the science vs religion thread...

by no less than Ed H, Jan and jgill.


.....

Nontheless, I enjoy your ability and/or push and/or desire
to get along with most everyone. Have at it.


Ps... thanks for the hint.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 21, 2016 - 11:36am PT
"he overpowers the conversation and no real discussion happens"

hardly...

it's clear from his provenance posts (as opposed to his retort posts) that they are experienced, caring and reasoned.

it's only a shame that the likes of a dipshit with zero substance or substantiation can follow them and spoil the moment/thinking.


.....


Moose,

let me state the obvious to set the stage: there is more than one type of personality in humanity (in Man). There needs to be.

You be Moose. Let me be HFCS.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 21, 2016 - 11:56am PT
I can respect that. Different strokes for different folks.

We are a scientifically illiterate, superstitious people. We are at war. We are the United State of Amnesia. Our heroes are the Beibs and the Kardashians.

I am not a teacher. I am not a politician. I am an innovator at base inspired by education, the information age, nature, youtube lectures, and people... G Bruno to Sagan to Neil deGrasse Tyson... etc etc..

So why should I strive to get along with a dip or dingus given the track record?

or else appease bullshit (eg misinfo or pretense) or disrepect where I encounter it?

The last I checked I'm generating 1's and 0's on a keyboard - not shoving anything (eg, pr's) down anybody's throat. You exaggerate.


.....

even though most people didn't agree with you.

who? you mean the woo clown car?

Not so hard.

It's not about me. It's about science. It's about "living up to" your science education.

If the responsibility is to expose lies as well as truth, we need to keep talking about it, posting about it.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 21, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
John, I'm not going to get into a debate regarding what the bully of the forum thinks about anything. You can like who you want, doesn't matter to me.

I was agreeing with the main theme of healyje's post, that is, without a change in congress nothing Bernie proposes is remotely possible. And his point that voting for anyone other than Hillary in Nov is throwing the progressive agenda under the bus. I'm not sure why that offends you.

I'm a realist, John. I see the math. You prefer Bernie. Fine. Bernie lost. Continuing to argue for Bernie as the candidate is silly - and destructive.

You don't like Hillary. I get that. I defend her against attacks on the forum and that bothers you. That's your problem, not mine.

Here's a perfect example..you post this:
Hillary represents the status quo.. no real change.
OK, now what? I think you're wrong. Plus, since I'm an Obama supporter I'm not entirely displeased with the status quo. Nor are a majority of American's if you read the polls. And I don't think electing a liberal Democrat woman exactly represents voting the status quo. And I've also posted that Bernie as VP would be a good idea.

There I go with the Hillary stuff. It's her or Donald, John, pick one. Your guy lost. Nobody forced anyone down your throat. Voters went to the polls and cast their ballots.
Norton

Social climber
May 21, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
without a change in congress nothing Bernie proposes is remotely possible.


correct, same goes for Hillary when she becomes President

bottom line to remember - even if the Dems take back the US Senate by a narrow margin in November the House will remain firmly in the Republicans' control

therefore, absolutely nothing will get done that benefits really anyone but to further enrich the shareholders of the defense contracting companies for Hillary's term(s)

President Obama had less than 30 days during his entire 8 years when he had a Democrat House and a filibuster proof US Senate with 58 Dems and the two independents of Sanders and Lieberman

and in that short of a time frame he and the master of the Senate, Harry Reid, passed the Lilly Fair Pay Act and the biggest, most sweeping direct benefit to most Americans since Johnson passed Medicare, the healthcare legislation. Oh, not to mention the little thing of pulling all our ground troops out the nightmare in Iraq.

And if that is "status quo", for Hillary to follow in Obama's footsteps then you damn right "status quo" would be a very proud thing to emulate.

Go ahead, vote for the Reality TV star, yeah he represents your best interests, mouth breathers.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 21, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
"I'm a realist, John. I see the math. You prefer Bernie. Fine. Bernie lost. Continuing to argue for Bernie as the candidate is silly - and destructive."


I see a weird look at reality from the Bernie people, this race is no where near as close as 2008 and somehow the Bernie people thinks he is being cheated.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 21, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
the same ole boring stale sterile Hillary barking ...

yeah, so that might score a 5-6 in funny. but it's a zero in substance.

per usual

what is your payoff for being such a jackass here
that's what I can't figure

the enduring mystery.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 21, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
Boredom, HFCS, although, the reality TV bit is fairly accurate.

I'd take the pantsuits over this any day.

dirtbag

climber
May 21, 2016 - 02:26pm PT

El Chapo is being groomed for Donald's running mate as Veep.

Now that would be a hoot!
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
May 21, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
Sanders, is almost out of money. Hard to believe, the candidate, who wanted to get money out of politics, spent 5 times what Trump did, and more than Hillary. Where did it all go?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 21, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
Why not take that hard on you have for me and put it to good use? Almost all your kind have been banned. The forum is a better place since their hateful bigotry left with them. You should be next. You contribute nothing but personal attacks. Go away.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 21, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
Having wood is grounds for banning..? Criminy..
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 21, 2016 - 04:06pm PT
Ok, that was funny RJ!!
zBrown

Ice climber
May 21, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
Speaking of El Chapo and El Trumpo and walls and all, has anybody seen the results of the survey of rates of radioactivity found in middle eastern Mexican tunnel diggers?




As the old aphorism goes, "I wouldn't drive through that tunnel in your car".

Think that lake weed was tainted, try La 'Dirty' Bomba.
dirtbag

climber
May 21, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
Moose,

You forgot:


crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 21, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
Christian? No way. 5 bucks says that bible of his is hollowed out with small copies of Golf Digest inside.

51. He is a racist

52. He is a bigot

53. He is a pathological liar

54. He is a mysogonist and xenophobic

55. He is a deranged Birther
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
May 21, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
A guy who thinks there is an
arc on the moon wants us all
to take his word on what a saint
duh chump is?

Laughable.

Your shtick smells more and more like
a bag of smashed ass holes and you
know it.

trump = greed.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 21, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
#35 He's a great orator, believe me a great orator. He's terrific, absolutely great, believe me.
Lol

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 21, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
John, you have insight into Hillary's Methodist faith, eh? Discuss away...

http://religionnews.com/2016/01/29/hillary-clinton-religion-methodist/
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 21, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
Klimmer, what's with the #38 Christian thing? Have you actually read and comprehended the Constitution of the United States, where, in Article VI, Clause 3 it states (and I quote):

...; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

Klimmer, I hesitate to say this but you're an.... nah, I won't. But you are.

Just out of curiosity, do you know the religion of a great many of the originators of the Constitution? Deist. Not Christian. They had seen the scourge of Christianity and tried to make a country that had no mandated religion. Believe what you want, but allow we who believe differently than you to have our views too.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 21, 2016 - 06:24pm PT
51. His wife Melania Trump will be the prettiest First Lady we've ever had in U.S. History. Stunningly beautiful.

You are one sick puppy.

#57. Thinks his daughter is hot.
#58. You tell people your daughter is your girlfriend. To quote you "Lol".

Edit: Also, it will also be the first time POTUS has been married three times to trophy wives.

monolith

climber
state of being
May 21, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
29. His stance on climate change.

Klimmer is a science denier as well. Of course, since it involves a giant conspiracy.

yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
May 21, 2016 - 07:53pm PT
A hijacker's defense of Donald Trump?
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
May 21, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
All the politards from all sides are are attracted to him like moths to the flames .....

And how does that end for the moth?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 21, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
Not surprisingly, they are Trump supporters:

Primed to fight the government
A fast-growing U.S. movement armed with guns and the Constitution sees a dire threat to liberty

He suspects that the United Nations, through a program called Agenda 21, wants to reduce the global population from 7 billion to fewer than 1 billion. He said the federal government may be promoting abortions overseas as part of that plot, and also may be deliberately mandating childhood vaccines designed to cause autism because autistic adults are less likely to have children.

Soper said he could not rule out the possibility that the U.S. government was behind the 9/11 attacks. He suspects that the government and the “medical community” have had a cancer cure for years but won’t release it because cancer treatment is too profitable for pharmaceutical companies.

The group members are conservatives, do not like former secretary of state Hillary Clinton and generally support Donald Trump. Soper said he would prefer just about anyone over Clinton but would not cast a vote for president this year. He said he thinks casting his vote is “a waste of time” because Oregon’s politics are dominated by Democrats.

MacNab, the George Washington University researcher, said Trump has been a powerful recruiting tool for groups angry at the government. “The tea party built little bridges between the fringe and the mainstream,” she said. “With Trump, it’s an 18-lane superhighway. He’s literally telling them they’re right.”

One of the men indicted in the Bundy ranch case is Gerald DeLemus, who was New Hampshire co-chair of Veterans for Trump and was named by the Trump campaign as a New Hampshire alternate delegate to the Republican National Convention in Cleveland.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2016/05/21/armed-with-guns-and-constitutions-the-patriot-movement-sees-america-under-threat/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_constitutionalguard908pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
monolith

climber
state of being
May 21, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
The sun has very little to do with our warming.

Just bringing it up is an attempt to add uncertainty to the warming we are seeing.

Or maybe you are just clueless.

Also try reading your own link. The LIA was not global and the sun is only 1 of 5 possibilities given for it.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 21, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
Per Klimmer: "I do have US Army Infantry experience and shot many weapon systems at the time."

Are you gong to join the Militia Movement or something? Were you in the Army? You're a veteran?
monolith

climber
state of being
May 21, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
Yes, it's part of the models, and it has only a tiny effect as your link shows.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 21, 2016 - 09:55pm PT
Klimmer, that is very impressive service.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 22, 2016 - 03:53am PT
...she's a proven member of the neocon club...

So basically, you don't know what 'neocon' means, who is involved, or what they're about. To assert hillary is a neocon is completely idiotic. Crikey, the sh#t people are just pulling out of their asses this election cycle is really quite astonishing.

dirtbag

climber
May 22, 2016 - 07:41am PT
She voted for the Iraq war BUT: that was in reliance of a few conditions being met and the good faith actions of the Bush Administration (ha!).


She is most certainly NOT a neocon.
dirtbag

climber
May 22, 2016 - 07:48am PT
A Hillary super pac is spending millions in Florida, Ohio and Nevada hammering trump.

Has anyone seen any effort to attack him?
Larry Nelson

Social climber
May 22, 2016 - 08:05am PT
Thanks for your service Klimmer.

I also think a 2 year mandatory service in order to vote would be good for the country...kinda like the Starship Troopers world ;-)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 22, 2016 - 09:00am PT
Mandatory 2 year service in the US military would increase military spending and raise taxes...
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 22, 2016 - 09:14am PT
^^^ we had that in the thirties. It wasn't militarized, though. It was called the Civilian Conservation Corp.
My dad was a member.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 22, 2016 - 09:16am PT
Instead of killing and terrorizing people all over the planet the military will work in the USA fixing all the fuked up roads, bridges and other sh!t that's broken.

The trouble with that theory is that the military's special talent isn't building roads, but is killing and terrorizing people all over the planet.

It's tough to build roads with planes, tanks, and drones.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
May 22, 2016 - 09:33am PT
The trouble with that theory is that the military's special talent isn't building roads, but is killing and terrorizing people all over the planet

I used to be of that same mindset, but then I got a chance to work with "The Military". The vast majority of service members are peace loving, deeply caring, altruistic regular people. And I work with some of the most intense ones you'll meet. The problem of course is the whack jobs who want to intimidate their people into submission and/or take over the world. Every country has them. But they are only "The Military" in title. Very few soldiers want to kill.

So be a little more careful with your broad stroke paintbrush and maybe take some time to actually get to know our service members who for whatever reason have chosen to lay down their lives if need be to protect our freedom.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 22, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
Could create a two-year mandatory national service with some percentage split between the military draft and other existing and new service organizations. And we could easily setup a service involving infrastructure improvement that includes training / apprenticeships in various trades.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
May 22, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
I'm not providing a link here, but goggle Trump Charities on yer own and see what ya get. Cheap fuker Is what I got.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 22, 2016 - 05:13pm PT
Funny how so many of you throw out rhetoric about slavery then turn around and advocate for it under different ownership.

I believe people will sign up to fight for something worth saving, conscription is nothing short of (temporary) slavery.

No group, and especially not the government, has the right to force another group to give up a year or two of their lives (or their very life itself in the case of potential armed conflict) without their consent.

You can keep your collectivist bs.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 22, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
Bullsh#t. You're a citizen, you can pony up a couple of years of service to your nation.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 22, 2016 - 05:37pm PT
I'm cool with EVERYONE giving two years service to our nation.

Anything from military service, to serving in Veteran's hospitals, to rebuilding infra-structure, to TSA screening.

After that service, we all have something in common & hopefully a lot of folks might get a sense of self-worth out of their service.

I've never talked with someone that served in our peacetime army, due to being drafted in the later 1950's or early 1960's, that hated the experience, although I'm sure some did.

Sorry folks: Missionary service does not qualify as National service.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 22, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
Absolutely not.

I am not a national resource.

You can keep your slavery.

The one and only right that I might still have a chance to keep is self-ownership.

And Fritz: Serving my government is not the same as serving my community. As such, conscription is not the only way I can serve my community.
Norton

Social climber
May 22, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
True, but VISTA (Volunteers in Service to America) does count as National Service

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmeriCorps_VISTA
Norton

Social climber
May 22, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
The one and only right that I might still have a chance to keep is self-ownership.

no little pissant honey boo boo

it all depends on when your zygote was born, and you just got lucky that's all

and that would determine if you got drafted or not, as many of us who did serve were

you were born in peacetime, after 1973) no doubt from your undeveloped intellect

and there has been no draft since my era, the Vietnam war

I suppose now you will say that if drafted you would not serve cause you got "rights"


Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 22, 2016 - 06:15pm PT
Escopeta! Re your remarks, concerning two years of national service for every American:

May 22, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
Absolutely not.

I am not a national resource.

You can keep your slavery.

The one and only right that I might still have a chance to keep is self-ownership.

And Fritz: Serving my government is not the same as serving my community. As such, conscription is not the only way I can serve my community.


Not a problem, since you are too old for a National Service draft. However your children, which you must have lots of, will be better for the experience.

Or,since it appears that the time for revolution here is not close ----- as previously suggested, you can move your family to that last bastion of individual rights: Somalia.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 22, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
My family members aren't a national resource either.

EDIT: And it didn't take a village to raise any of them.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 22, 2016 - 06:21pm PT
Since you've been 0wned you want everyone else to be in your brainwashed loon world too .....

Exactly

Not sure I know what you guys are prattling on about.

Did someone say duck? Where's F when we need him?
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 22, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
Exactly!

What's good for the duck is good for the gander.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 22, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
Nutjobbery united...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 22, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
exactly..!
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 23, 2016 - 05:40am PT
Can you believe it???

Donald Trump’s presidential campaign has been given a boost by a new poll showing the presumptive Republican nominee winning November’s general election against likely Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.

An ABC News/ Washington Post poll published on Sunday shows Trump with a two percent advantage over Clinton with registered voters in a hypothetical general election matchup.

According to Langer Research, Trump’s “enhanced competitiveness reflects consolidation in his support since his primary opponents dropped out.”

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 23, 2016 - 05:51am PT
Oh look, another poll! lol
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 23, 2016 - 06:17am PT
"I need validation for my favorite idiot puppet"
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 23, 2016 - 06:24am PT
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 23, 2016 - 06:26am PT
Hands are proportionally too large.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 23, 2016 - 06:31am PT
Lol ^^^
dirtbag

climber
May 23, 2016 - 06:46am PT
Good one guys.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 23, 2016 - 07:24am PT
Another reason why Trump won't win!

Hillary Clinton could topple Obama's record for revving gun sales

While Obama has sought to restrict access to firearms, his presidency has helped swell the NRA’s membership rolls and spark record revenues for gun companies. Now, some in the industry think Clinton would be an even better gun "salesman" than Obama.

Barack Obama is single handily responsible for the sales of more guns and ammo than any human being in the history of the United States," said Richard Feldman, a former NRA political organizer. "Clinton could do better
http://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/hillary-clinton-could-topple-obamas-090004527.html

It makes total sense to me that gun & ammo manufacturers & the NRA will be secretly donating to Hillary's campaign, since Liberals are great for their business.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 23, 2016 - 07:42am PT
Right now, Bernie and his bros are doing more for Donald's campaign numbers than anyone. How much more damage he does in the next 2 weeks is anyone's guess. Hillary's numbers should rebound once he finally ends his destructive campaign, but you have to be concerned.

Will that be Bernie's legacy, he helped elect Donald J. Trump? Hope not.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 23, 2016 - 08:00am PT
Clinton had just a 40-point lead against Trump among Sanders voters, while Sanders had a 70-point lead. Trump was getting virtually the same share of the vote against both candidates — 40 percent against Clinton, 39 percent against Sanders. Presumably most Sanders supporters will ultimately get behind Clinton, and, on the flip side, Clinton supporters would have been much more negative on Sanders if he had posed a more serious threat to her victory.

Probably a legitimate presumption.


From the NY Times guy, Douthat

But seriously, Mitt Romney should run for president again and transcend party for the good of the country.” How much damage could Romney do to Trump if he ran a third-party race? A lot of state deadlines have already been missed. Utah is one of the most conservative states, but could Romney sink Trump in Utah if he got on the ballot there?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 23, 2016 - 08:04am PT
So Hillary doesn't have enough going for her to win with competition?

That doesn't say much for her appeal.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 23, 2016 - 08:07am PT
HRC has already won with competiton. End of story.

HRC is not appealing, for sure, but she will win against Trump. Her campaign saved it's money for attacking Trump.

Don't underestimate how much the "other" repubs dislike Trump either.




monolith

climber
state of being
May 23, 2016 - 08:07am PT
Don't underestimate how much 'other' repubs dislike Clinton.

dirtbag

climber
May 23, 2016 - 08:07am PT
It's vote splitting, Esco. Few candidates can overcome it.

But she would be an unpopular nominee, no question.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 23, 2016 - 08:13am PT

The bottom line you Americans don't have anyone with a brain to be the leader you really need.

You have politicians and a real estate reality TV star for leader candidates.

Politicians don't know sh!t and can't be trusted as all their knowledge comes from biased criminals.

The real estate reality TV star don't know sh!t either.

He gets all his knowledge from the stupid brainwashed mainstream media.

None of them will ever speak the truth.

If Americans heard the truth they'd flip out and go insane.

So this why we have the endless "American Dream"

Dreamy .... when will America wake up?

Never!!! because its better to remain in sleep .....

Nails it.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 23, 2016 - 09:13am PT
Is Hillary and Trump the only choice we have now? I beg to differ.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 23, 2016 - 09:41am PT
In other news, Chris "Krispy Kreme" Christie pretty much sealed his fate as NOT the VP pick. I guess he forgot that Trumps' big game hunting kids live in NJ.

What a tard.
dirtbag

climber
May 23, 2016 - 10:11am PT
What the hell does this even mean?


I don’t want to have guns in classrooms although in some cases teachers should have guns in classrooms, frankly, because teachers are, you know, things that are going on in our schools are unbelievable, you look at some of our schools, unbelievable what’s going on — but I’m not advocating guns in classrooms, but remember, in some cases, and a lot of people have made this case, teachers should be able to have guns, trained teachers should be able to have guns in classrooms.

-Donald Trump

No wonder Palin loves him.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 23, 2016 - 10:51am PT
It means exactly what he wants it to mean....nothing but a bunch of buzz words mixed together to form exactly what on the fence voters want to hear.

I'm surprised he didn't put a "I'm winning" at the end.

Hillary does it too....she's just butt hurt that Donald is a natural at it and is already beating her at this game with half the practice. .

EDIT: Hillary on Obmamcare: "On the tax itself, again I think we have to look to see what are the pluses and the minuses, that are embodied in a decision about either to remove or alter or continue this particular piece of the Affordable Care Act and I’ve in preparation for coming here, I’ve obviously looked at the arguments on both sides for more information and I think we’ll gather more information and that will perhaps give us a better path forward."
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 23, 2016 - 11:02am PT
What the hell does this even mean?

dirtbum it means your posting D.T quotes just like me! you must be becoming a Trump voter.....
dirtbag

climber
May 23, 2016 - 11:14am PT
Pyro, I count on you to translate Trumpese. But apparently, Trump's Trumpese Trumps our Trumplator.
couchmaster

climber
May 23, 2016 - 12:49pm PT

Quote-
"#BernieOrBust: Why 20 Percent of Sanders Supporters Say They Would Vote for Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton"

Many Sanders supporters see her as a dishonest person going full status quo and won't support her under any circumstances. If Trump works that, and he will, he could easily get it over 50%. Complain all you want about Trump, Hillary is not electable. That's a Yuge number of Dems running over and voting Trump. Yuge.

http://www.people.com/article/bernieorbust-sanders-supporters-vote-trump-clinton

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 23, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
Nonsense.

Half Bernie's supporter voting for Trump? Ridiculous. Won't be close to 20% once they (and he) get over their sore-loser spell. Only a very small percentage will support the bigot. A greater, but still small, percentage might vote Libertarian or Green.

Dumb move, either way. Hillary is the last line against President Trump. If you want to prevent that, not voting for her is foolish.

I've been hearing this "Hillary's done", "she'll be behind bars" stuff here for years. Wrong. Instead, in 2 months she'll be taking the podium at the Dem convention as the first woman nominee of a major party in U.S. history.

She is constantly being underestimated. Mostly, by men.
dirtbag

climber
May 23, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
As an example, a large percentage of Hillary supporters in 2008 pledged not to support Obama. Many came around, and Obama won handily.

But at some point soon, Bernie needs to transition to gracious loser.
Norton

Social climber
May 23, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
Why is it that "honesty" is suddenly so important to Republicans?

they certainly had no problem voting to reelect George Bush knowing his Iraq lie

and now they say they support the biggest liar of everyone, Donald liar Trump

Trump, who just a couple months ago was named the biggest political liar of the year
by politifact.com

Trump who casually lies and repeats lies every day and has his lies verified in the press

so explain how you can support such a liar as Trump, and do it without saying the word Hillary or Clinton because we are talking only about Trump and his lies now
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 23, 2016 - 01:10pm PT
Bernie needs to transition to gracious loser

If that happens I aver it will be too late and will not compensate for the
previous rancor. Besides, no matter how hard he tries to play The Everyman
he has a more than healthy ego and that is most assuredly clouding his judgment.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 23, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
Trump, who just a couple months ago was named the biggest political liar of the year
by politifact.com

Oh, you mean the award that our current sitting President won? But he's a Democrat? I thought the Dems were all about honesty and trust? LOL
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 23, 2016 - 02:28pm PT



Wake up! Clinton beat Obama in places like West Virginia because Obama is black. Clinton will have an uphill battle because white males are still afraid of any woman more intelligent than they are. Many women (especially late middle age and older women) react and respond the way their spouses tell them to. If people still want to talk about trust, take a hard look at that moron Trump.

Typical Angry Crankloon follower response!
zBrown

Ice climber
May 23, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
Total: $21,667,000


Good work if you can get it. What does that work out to per hour?


It would be interesting to see how much Trump got per TV show. Would anybody hire him to give a speech?







dirtbag

climber
May 23, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
Yes I'm sure the Hispanics are running to him right now.
dirtbag

climber
May 23, 2016 - 03:31pm PT
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Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 23, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
Actually, DB, the LA Times had an interesting article a few weeks ago about
Hispanic women who like Trump! Of course, the ones who are here legally
don't want more of their ilk who might take away some of what they've
worked for. That is the gist of what they were saying, not me.
Norton

Social climber
May 23, 2016 - 03:35pm PT
Lyin' Donald: 101 Of Trump's Greatest Lies

http://www.dailywire.com/news/4834/trumps-101-lies-hank-berrien
Norton

Social climber
May 23, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
When Politico attempted to measure how many lies Trump told over the course of 4.6 hours of speeches, they found that he lied, on average, once every five minutes. When Huffington Post catalogued his lies over the course of just one town hall event, they came up with 71 lies.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
May 23, 2016 - 03:44pm PT
He's missing Whitewaer, among others.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 23, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
Dirt.... is that the best you can do????


lame
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 23, 2016 - 04:32pm PT
The question is, guyman, is that the best the GOP can do....?

Lame, indeed.

And you are going to vote for that pathetic POS.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 23, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
We know why Dumb Donald won't show his taxes. He doesn't pay any. He's been feeding at the public trough his entire life.
dirtbag

climber
May 23, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
Ok Guyman, here you go.

You know what this is?

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 23, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
The question is, guyman, is that the best the GOP can do....?

Lame, indeed.

And you are going to vote for that pathetic POS


App.... so is Hillery the best the democratic party can do?

She is a worthless POS herself, when you really thing about it. What with leaving those brave men to die in Bengazi.... selling out our country, rigging the democratic selection formula.... on and on.

I have stated who Im voting for.... Not a BUSH and Not a Clinton...

so I still have two to decide from.... hope for.


Go Bernie...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 23, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
That "left men to die in Bengazi" baloney is pure bs. It's been proven to be false 10x over.
She won the nomination from votes by voters (you know, people). She, nor anyone, rigged anything.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 23, 2016 - 05:05pm PT
46. Hoping for 50, but losing interest. Shooting for 1 more day on Tioga Pass.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 23, 2016 - 05:07pm PT
"I hear Trump is set to meet with Kissinger.
He's just another pawn of the super elite. "


FACT.

And any of you Trump supporters who think he's 'anti-establishment' need to pull your feckin' head out.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 23, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
"I hear Trump is set to meet with Kissinger.
He's just another pawn of the super elite. "


FACT.

And any of you Trump supporters who think he's 'anti-establishment' need to pull your feckin' head out.

Um...

Kissinger met with Zhou Enlai, Mao Zedong, Ho chi Min, Fidel Castro, Breznev, Putin....
Do we wish any of these were President?


Oh yeah, almost forgot. Here he is with his CIA puppet buddy Augusto Pinochet.

Hell, he shared his Nobel prize with North Vietnamese politburo chief Le Duc Tho for peace in Vietnam.

Henry is one of the most despicable examples of US foreign policy in history.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 23, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
Good god, Klimmer how many times do I need to tell you post 80% biased right wing propaganda crap, Rupert Murdoch owns nypost where your source comes from.

There was a documentary on Rupert Murdoch's called “Outfoxed” War on Journalism in 2004.

Murdooch promotes and advocate right-wing views.

Interviews with former Foxie News journalists, discussing incidents where Foxie News allegedly pressured journalists to slant their reports towards support for the Republican Party.

Bill O'Reilly intimidate guests but lets Trumped slide. Hannity loves Trumped thinks he is a god like you do.

Anyway back to your post.

Las Vegas Review -Journal

Posted November 9, 2015 - 11:04pm

Which presidential candidate earns the most per speech?
By Chuck Epstein

Talk is cheap unless you're a politician at the podium. Republican and Democratic presidential candidates are charging sky-high speaking fees at public and private events. But for decades’ politicians have been receiving high wages for standing at the podium.

When former President Gerald Ford left office in 1977, he quickly learned the financial benefits of being paid to make speeches. To manage speaking engagements, the Washington Speakers Bureau was founded in 1979 and has since managed paid speaking jobs for politicians, actors and other celebrities. The rise of this agency has helped speaking fees reach stratospheric levels.

Today, the demand for political speakers is higher than ever. Here is a list of the top- and bottom-earning presidential candidates.

Donald Trump: $250,000 Per Speech

It's no surprise Donald Trump — the billionaire Republican candidate — commands the biggest speaking fees of these presidential hopefuls. Trump charges an average $250,000 per speech, according to The New York Times, and he undoubtedly has been paid among the highest fees for a series of speeches. In fact, for The Learning Annex's real estate wealth expos, Trump reportedly earned a whopping $1.5 million for making a number of speeches, according to Forbes.

Overall, Trump's speaking engagements have earned him $1.75 million, according to Federal Commission documents obtained by Reuters. He has also charged between $50,000 and $450,000 in the past 16 months. The presidential candidate conducted three speeches for the multilevel marketing company ACN and earned $450,000 — for each speech.

..............

Trumped said he received 6 million for veterans group, then some said most like 4 and vets said they have only seen 2 million. I wonder where the 4 million missing funds went to have any idea Klimmer? most likely his speech fee.

But don’t blame your stupidity since you mostly spend your time listening and reading conspiracy theories and cement blocks that are concrete than getting facts right.


Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 23, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
"She is a worthless POS herself, when you really thing about it. What with leaving those brave men to die in Bengazi.... selling out our country, rigging the democratic selection formula.... on and on. "

Strong opinions, nothing more.
dirtbag

climber
May 23, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
Guy it's really sad you believe the bs propaganda about Benghazi.

Anyway, in fairness, we can't criticize trump for consulting with Kissinger when Clinton does the same thing.
Norton

Social climber
May 23, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
What with leaving those brave men to die in Bengazi

liar

prove it
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
May 23, 2016 - 06:45pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
May 23, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
Although he didn't, I could easily envision Trump saying this.

Veterans Affairs Secretary Bob McDonald downplayed Monday the time it takes for veterans to receive medical treatment by comparing the "experience" of waiting for health care to Disneyland guests waiting for a ride.

"When you go to Disney, do they measure the number of hours you wait in line? Or what's important?" McDonald told reporters at a Christian Science Monitor breakfast in Washington. "What's important is what's your satisfaction with the experience?"

Where's the money, lyin' D.T.? Show us the money you donated to veterans. Maybe put some of them up in one of your hotels, while they're in line.

Trump - McDonald (and some other horses asses from old Mac's farm) in 2016


"I served, even went to the (New York High School Military) Academy"
-D.T.


Never really thought about it till now, but doesn't he "have a pretty mouth?"



nah000

climber
no/w/here
May 23, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
kissinger on clinton: I’ve known her for many years now, and I respect her intellect. And she ran the State Department in the most effective way that I’ve ever seen.

I know Hillary as a person. And as a personal friend, I would say yes, she’d be a good president.



clinton on kissinger: Henry's the expert on theory and doctrine. I'm someone who thinks that it could help provide a framework and direction and lessons from history.

I was very flattered when Henry Kissinger said I ran the State Department better — better than anybody had run it in a long time.

[Kissinger] checked in with me regularly, sharing astute observations about foreign leaders and sending me written reports on his travels. Though we have often seen the world and some of our challenges quite differently, and advocated different responses now and in the past, what comes through clearly in this new book is a conviction that we, and President Obama, share: a belief in the indispensability of continued American leadership in service of a just and liberal order.



while all you cats pissed off at people calling clinton a neocon are technically correct, you have to admit she sure has enough supporters that are bonafide neocons [max boot, robert kagan, and eliot cohen to name a few], including one of the co-founders of the project for the new american century, that whatever you want to call her, she's definitely the most hawkish democrat in at least my lifetime...

in case you have any doubt, here's a link to her speech to AIPAC...

i challenge any of you to tell me that if you were to read only the transcript above, without knowing who gave the speech, that everything she said wouldn't have been what you'd expect to come out of a republican's mouth, rather than a democrat's...



argue all you like about whether or not she's deserving of the term neocon...

but anybody who likes to regularly holiday with the kissingers has shown their true colours no matter what term you want to call them...
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 23, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
Sith lords Kissinger and Cheney will never die. They'll just change hosts.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 23, 2016 - 08:16pm PT
"App.... so is Hillery the best the democratic party can do? "


Compared to Trump as the GOP candidate?


F%#K YES.
dirtbag

climber
May 23, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
While all you cats pissed off at people calling clinton a neocon are technically correct, you have to admit she sure has enough supporters that are bonafide neocons [max boot, robert kagan, and eliot cohen to name a few], including one of the co-founders of the project for the new american century, that whatever you want to call her, she's definitely the most hawkish democrat in at least my lifetime...

I've read what Kagan and Boot recently said about their support of Clinton. It's not so much a ringing endorsement of clinton, it's more that they are terrified of a trump presidency.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 23, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
I like the idea of national service. Perhaps as a condition of voting, or participation in Social Security/Medicare?

I'm not sure military training for millions pays off......perhaps assignment to a greatly expanded Army Corps of Engineers could be productive, and teach some working skills, as well.
dirtbag

climber
May 23, 2016 - 08:50pm PT
I actually agree with Esco as far as compulsory peacetime service is concerned. It's a bit coercive. Voluntary service would be fine.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
May 23, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
dirtbag: agreed...

that said, an endorsement is still an endorsement and whether it is ringing or not, whether it is driven as much by their fear of trump or not, does not change that she is palatable enough for them to endorse her, and your one clarification on that one point does not change the over-arching gist of my argument...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 23, 2016 - 09:29pm PT
I like the idea of national service. Perhaps as a condition of voting, or participation in Social Security/Medicare?

You mean, I could get out of mandatory Social Security if I DON'T sign up for your two-years-a-slave program?

Please, tell me where do I sign?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 23, 2016 - 09:45pm PT
Wow, Esco...

'Television'

I'm impressed.
dirtbag

climber
May 24, 2016 - 05:37am PT
No way am I voting for a Clinton. Those dirty Clintons have made a mockery of the office of the presidency.

I'm voting for someone presidential instead:

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 24, 2016 - 06:05am PT
Racism fuels Dumb Donald's campaign. It's the glue that seals the bond between he and his supporters. Dog whistles? No, these people shout it on the mountaintop.

By ALLEGRA KIRKLAND Published MAY 24, 2016

BURNS, TENNESSEE—Presumptive GOP nominee Donald Trump has been accused of dog-whistling to white supremacists ever since he kicked off his campaign in the summer of 2015 and warned against “criminal” Mexican immigrants. His retweets of Twitter users with handles like "@WhiteGenocideTM" and his tepid disavowals of David Duke's support have not gone unnoticed in that fringe community, either.

Tucked away in the woods of middle Tennessee’s Montgomery Bell State Park, 300 “white advocates” gathered over the weekend at the fourteenth annual American Renaissance conference to reflect on just how much fuel Trump has added to their movement this election cycle.

"I've never felt this sense of energy in our movement," the conference host, Jared Taylor, said in his opening remarks. "I've never been more optimistic."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/trump-american-renaissance-2016-conference
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 24, 2016 - 07:06am PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 24, 2016 - 07:37am PT
Escopeta posted
You mean, I could get out of mandatory Social Security if I DON'T sign up for your two-years-a-slave program?

Please, tell me where do I sign?

Libertarianism: Where "slavery" means doing anything I don't want to.



We'd be more than happy for you to pay FICA and then forego benefits.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 24, 2016 - 07:43am PT
guyman posted
She is a worthless POS herself, when you really thing about it. What with leaving those brave men to die in Bengazi.... selling out our country, rigging the democratic selection formula.... on and on.

What does that make Sanders? The white guy in a land run by white guys who can't even beat a "worthless piece of sh#t?"
zBrown

Ice climber
May 24, 2016 - 10:18am PT
How does this relate? You got me.

Possibly some exercise in futility?

skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 24, 2016 - 10:49am PT
I'm ready for the next first lady too

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 24, 2016 - 10:53am PT
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 24, 2016 - 10:55am PT
Yea, well If Michelle was packing then it'd be OK.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 24, 2016 - 11:33am PT
We'd be more than happy for you to pay FICA and then forego benefits.

And that's different from what I'm doing today how?

I would have thought the champion of white privilege would be against such an obvious inter-generational transfer of wealth?
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 24, 2016 - 11:46am PT
She would be the Hottest First Lady ever!

I like her photoshoot page.

http://www.melaniatrump.com/my-world/photoshoots/

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 24, 2016 - 11:48am PT
Locker, you feeling that pathetic attempt? ^^^^^ Me? Not so much.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
May 24, 2016 - 11:51am PT
Fritz. She does make that dress look good.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 24, 2016 - 12:00pm PT
I just can't imagine that carrot-topped blathermouth being able to keep up with her.
Norton

Social climber
May 24, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
So let's count the mouth breathers that will vote for Realty TV star instead of a Sec of State

Cosmic, pyro, couch, Madbolter,

surely we can add the powerful intellect, Espoceta?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 24, 2016 - 12:22pm PT
How old are you? lol
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 24, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
I can just imagine that carrot-topped blathermouth being able to keep up with her.


Fixed it for you.....

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 24, 2016 - 05:03pm PT
Disgusting

Two years before the housing market collapsed in 2008 and millions of Americans lost their homes, Donald Trump said he was hoping for a crash.
"I sort of hope that happens because then people like me would go in and buy," Trump said in a 2006 audiobook from Trump University, answering a question about "gloomy predictions that the real estate market is heading for a spectacular crash."

"If there is a bubble burst, as they call it, you know you can make a lot of money," Trump went on to explain in an audio textbook from his con of a business school. "If you're in a good cash position — which I'm in a good cash position today — then people like me would go in and buy like crazy."
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 24, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
Indeed. How awful. How dare he try to make money.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 24, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
Gleefully HOPING for a crash so people lose their homes that he can scoop up on the cheap. You can have this ridiculous buffoon. He'll be looking for fans once he gets destroyed in Nov.
jstan

climber
May 24, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEJTI5f-4v4


Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 24, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Use the video button at the top, copy and insert the url, then delete everything before the '=' sign.
Norton

Social climber
May 24, 2016 - 06:56pm PT
vote for Trump, b!tch
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 24, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
"“You know, it doesn’t really matter what [the media] write as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass.” — from an interview with Esquire, 1991"
Guess who
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 24, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
"Women, you have to treat them like sh*t"

Donald Trump
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 24, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
Gotta agree with the Donald on the piece of ass remark...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 24, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
"“I’ve said if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.”

Donald the Daughter F*#ker
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 24, 2016 - 07:19pm PT
In the Republican debate last night, Megyn Kelly called out Trump for his many misogynistic comments, including this moment from an episode of Celebrity Apprentice in 2013. The remark came after Brett Michaels described how contestant Brande Roderick had gotten down on her knees and begged not to be fired.

Trump focused in on that image of Roderick, asking her directly, "excuse me, you dropped to your knees?"
"Yes," Brande answered.
Several seconds later, the lascivious Trump continued:
"Must be a pretty picture, you dropping to your knees."

[Click to View YouTube Video]
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 24, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
As usual the Hillary loons are starting their evening meltdowns ....

yep,

I've noticed that some in the rabid left often possess a crazy violent rage that boils under the surface whereas the rabid right are generally just stupid.

Carry on

9000 coming soon. Prizes at 10k.

Norton

Social climber
May 24, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
May 24, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
He's a man.

Fair enough. Some folks are hoping for more qualifications. He's white too.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 24, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
"I've noticed that some in the rabid left often possess a crazy violent rage that boils under the surface whereas the rabid right are generally just stupid."...


Isn't there evidence showing (Proving???) that Republicans are generally less educated than Democrats???...

I dunno.... anyone who absolutely considers themselves a bona fide member of one or the other can't be too bright. Although I suppose statistically one side or the other might have gathered more expensive paper certificates with gold stars.

After hiring technical people for more than a decade, I find little correlation between paper certificates and problem solving capacity.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 24, 2016 - 08:31pm PT
Not until this hits 10k....
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 24, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
'Spanking' Klimmer? You should be ashamed, you nasty boy.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 24, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
Gotta get this thread count larger than the nutcase Mind thread. Only a couple of thousand behind.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 24, 2016 - 09:25pm PT
What a bunch a stupid screwballs who never evolved from stupid monkeys......


We aim to pull evil up by the root!
Before it chokes out the flower of our culture'n heritage! And our women!
Let's not forget those ladies, y'all, lookin' to us for p'tection!
From darkies! From Jews! From Papists!
And from all those smart-ass folk say we come descended from monkeys! That's not my culture'n heritage!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 24, 2016 - 09:37pm PT
Honestly...Trump means well...He has an affliction called Tourette's syndrome..He's not perfect but he will make America great again...Believe him...Forgive him..Make him your daddy...Let's all pray...
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 24, 2016 - 10:04pm PT
So, there should be an intelligence test to qualify for voter status?

How about a political aptitude test?

How about a taxpayer threshold (you aren't a net payer of taxes; you don't vote)?

The arrogance of presuming/suggesting that Trump voters are less intelligent than Clinton voters is staggering.

But, you know, if it floats your boat to believe in such a litmus test, paddle on.

Or, perhaps some genuinely intelligent people simply don't agree with you, and that for very good reasons. (Gasp! Shudder! Shock and awe!)
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 24, 2016 - 10:26pm PT
"The arrogance of presuming/suggesting that Trump voters are less intelligent than Clinton voters is staggering."

Did I say that?

Did someone else say that?

Did anyone say that?



Or are you maybe just a liiiitttttllleee too sensitive about such things?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
May 25, 2016 - 12:01am PT
Into the heart of Redneck Country,
into the home of Tribal Casinos,
into the home of vatos and Bulldogs,
the Donald Express will be at the Fresno Convention & Entertainment Center
Friday at 10 a.m. Doors open at 7 a.m.

http://www.fresnobee.com/news/politics-government/politics-columns-blogs/political-notebook/article79697722.html

The Fresno stop comes between Butte, Mont. (4 p.m. Thursday) and San Diego, Calif. (2 p.m. Friday).
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 25, 2016 - 12:13am PT
Radical...

Did the folks with the Meexican flag have their documentation end examined by the ins?

How did top right news know they are illegal?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 25, 2016 - 05:48am PT
Madbolter 1...http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/trump-who-boasts-elite-education-shines-among-voters-without-degrees
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
May 25, 2016 - 05:51am PT
My first time posting, or even looking, here on this Ready Thread.

Sounds like off the rack suits.

Donald would never wear an OTR suit.

I listened to five full minutes of piano chords and The Donald's coy protestations that he would defer the presidency to some other capable person (but it turns out there is no one as capable as he) who WANTS the job, but not I.

No, I, Donald Trump, who loves to win, am too coy to beg to be elected. I am willing to be The Man (I could do it any time, if I wanted), but there should be someone out there who is as capable as me (but unfortunately there is not so I will have to do it myself) and I guess it might not be so bad.

Apparently he thinks he'll be elected. He has to get the delegates first. This population is just screwy enough and loves its matinee idols enough so that all the women who thought he used to be so handsome will vote hormonally while a segment of the geezers who have money stashed will vote for him because HE UNDERSTANDS MONEY AND IT IS ALL THESE GEEZERS TALK OR THINK ABOUT WHEN NOT GOLFING.

The older generation is in his pocket, is what I'm saying. I'm not of that older generation the one just older than me -- I'm 68. So that means that that relatively small slice of the US voting pie who are still alive may vote his way, thinking to protect what's left of their retirement incomes.

OUCH! This all suddenly is making my head hurt like hell. I'd better stop and lie down, check my pulse and heart rate, and chill. I'm a heart patient, I keep forgetting. I can't afford getting stressed or worked.

"Thinking about politics" is mostly not thinking but knee-jerk reactions. I am simply here because I wanted to look around. I am hot coming back because I don't care if anyone ever agrees with me and it makes no difference that I can tell who's in the Offal Office, the one with the Killer-in-Chief sitting at a big desk smiling like a benevolent uncle.

So I will go my own way
As the song used to say

And to hell with politics but not the politards
because it's good to have SOMETHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT OR TO DERIDE.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 25, 2016 - 06:57am PT
....I am hot coming back because I don't care if anyone ever agrees with me and it makes no difference that I can tell who's in the Offal Office.....

Oh you'll be back. You'll make this thread great again.
Norton

Social climber
May 25, 2016 - 07:18am PT
The arrogance of presuming/suggesting that Trump voters are less intelligent than Clinton voters is staggering.

oh, not arrogance but just a fact

and you prove it with every adolescent post
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 25, 2016 - 07:26am PT
That's hilarious coming from the 2 yr old. ^^^^^^

PYRO! Hit me. Norton's head is exploding.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 25, 2016 - 07:34am PT
From Klimmer:

"Donald Trump can help bring our nation back and make it great again."

I'm confused. Bring our nation back from what exactly? How are we not great now? Please Klimmer, make a list for me as I don't see what is so wrong with this country that kicking the Repubs our of Congress and state offices wouldn't cure, you betcha.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 25, 2016 - 07:36am PT
Norton

Social climber

May 25, 2016 - 07:18am PT

oh, not arrogance but just a fact

and you prove it with every adolescent post


Seriously Norton, you know how to bring it.

Thanks for all you do.
kattz

climber
May 25, 2016 - 07:58am PT
Not sure about the intelligence of an average "supporter", but whatever Trump says is 1000 times more intelligent than uneducated, crude ravings of the delusional idiot Sanders aka "a man with no plan".
dirtbag

climber
May 25, 2016 - 08:07am PT
Donald Trump can help bring our nation back and make it great again.





....











rincon

climber
Coarsegold
May 25, 2016 - 08:08am PT
Trump does love the uneducated!

He loves them.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 25, 2016 - 08:10am PT
Oh, Bern has a plan. It's a reprise of the plan brought to full fruition
at the Place de la Concorde on 21 January 1793.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
May 25, 2016 - 08:13am PT
Indeed. How awful. How dare he try to make money.
    Escopeta

Well you gotta have money to make money, right? And why not make money off the backs of those that got schtooped by predatory lenders? Heck, they were stupid to buy houses that they couldn't afford when their jobs got outsourced.

Just one thing... He's lobbying for votes from the very people he schtooped.

Now if that's not proof that many Trump votes are dumb as a box of bait...
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
May 25, 2016 - 08:20am PT
the delusional idiot Sanders aka "a man with no plan".

You tell 'em, girl!




Except for one thing. Sanders does have a plan. And it's pretty darn extensive.


Now here is Trump's plan:

    "I'll make America the greatest."
    "I'll get the greatest advisors."

Did I miss anything?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 25, 2016 - 08:26am PT
Predatory Lenders. I love that. Is that like Predatory Crack Dealers?

Ohh, Predatory New Car Salesmen? They wear ninja suits I hear tell.

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough.
kattz

climber
May 25, 2016 - 08:30am PT
Escopeta, the most danger comes from predatory food stores...must be all closed due to causing massive case of America's fat arses!

As to Sanders...read his interviews, for example answers to questions regarding his plans to destroy big banks and what he wants to do about it, and you'll realize he has no absolutely no plan is pretty much is a clueless opportunist.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 25, 2016 - 08:34am PT
Well, you don't need to worry your pretty head over that in New York. They fixed it by outlawing Big Gulps.

And they strangle predatory loose cigarette salesman

That should make America great again! Lol
kattz

climber
May 25, 2016 - 08:35am PT
Like my very apolitical family member said a couple of days ago...."Oh Sanders? Isn't he done with?"
It doesn't really matter if he has plan or not.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 25, 2016 - 08:36am PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 25, 2016 - 08:36am PT
"...you'll realize he has no absolutely no plan is pretty much clueless."

Who are we talking about, again?

His own Party has criticized Trump loudly because he has not provided anything in the way of a detailed policy agenda.

And you are going to vote for that, while you harp on the other guy for exactly the same weakness?

[Click to View YouTube Video]
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
May 25, 2016 - 08:41am PT
Predatory Lenders. I love that. Is that like Predatory Crack Dealers?

No.


Now, are you playing dumb, or just playing yourself?

"Predatory lending describes unfair, deceptive, or fraudulent practices of some lenders during the loan origination process.

Here, check it out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis#Mortgage_fraud_and_predatory_lending

kattz

climber
May 25, 2016 - 08:42am PT
Unlike Sanders who was jobless until 40 y.o. and then got a public job managing some affairs in a village in a rural state....Trump had been out and about, trotting the paths, making business and money for his entire life.
If anyone got plans it's him.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 25, 2016 - 08:43am PT
rincon

climber
Coarsegold

May 25, 2016 - 08:08am PT
Trump does love the uneducated!

He loves them.

All bureaucrats love the uneducated, there are no exceptions.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
May 25, 2016 - 08:43am PT
OK Kattz, what is his plan?


I showed you were dead wrong about Bernie not having a plan. Here's your chance to make good.
kattz

climber
May 25, 2016 - 08:44am PT
Read up and you'll know about this plans. I'm not here to educate about it.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
May 25, 2016 - 08:44am PT
I have, and I found nothing.

Thanks for playing. You're 0/2.
kattz

climber
May 25, 2016 - 08:45am PT
Trump does love the uneducated!

Aren't democrats supposed to love the uneducated and underprivileged?....so, why are they blaming Trump for this???
kattz

climber
May 25, 2016 - 08:46am PT
k-man, this speaks either of your reading comprehension or research skills...but speaks none of Trump's plans. The dogs bark...the camel pass.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 25, 2016 - 08:48am PT
K-man,

Do you have any idea how many loans were made that truly had incorrect or inaccurate information on them? The percentages were so low its not worth mentioning.

But it sounds good and at least the dumb people that took out adjustable rate mortgages and seconds on their house to buy jet skis got to cry foul and act like they got lied to.

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough.


k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
May 25, 2016 - 08:49am PT
kattz, you are unable to cite any of Trump's plans right?


Whereas you said Sanders was a man of no plan.


Yeah, you are on top of it...
kattz

climber
May 25, 2016 - 08:52am PT
For all future candidates, this is how you lose New York:


New York Daily News (about breaking up banks, including JP Morgan):
So if you look forward, a year, maybe two years, right now you have...JPMorgan has 241,000 employees. About 20,000 of them in New York. $192 billion in net assets. What happens? What do you foresee? What is JPMorgan in year two of...

Sanders:
(no answer to the question is given at all)....What I foresee is a stronger national economy....(followed by the bunch of generic bullshit)

...


New York Daily News (about breaking up banks):
I get that point. I'm just looking at the method because, actions have reactions, right? There are pluses and minuses. So, if you push here, you may get an unintended consequence that you don't understand. So, what I'm asking is, how can we understand? If you look at JPMorgan just as an example, or you can do Citibank, or Bank of America. What would it be? What would that institution be? Would there be a consumer bank? Where would the investing go?

Sanders:
I'm not running JPMorgan Chase or Citibank.

Daily News:
No. But you'd be breaking it up.

Sanders:
That's right. And that is their decision as to what they want to do and how they want to reconfigure themselves. That's not my decision....(bunch of generic BS folows)


Sorry, Sanders, you will not be breaking anything up.
May be with your wife.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
May 25, 2016 - 08:54am PT
"Predatory lending describes unfair, deceptive, or fraudulent practices of some lenders during the loan origination process."


And you say, "Do you have any idea how many loans were made that truly had incorrect or inaccurate information on them?"


In 2004, the Federal Bureau of Investigation warned of an "epidemic" in mortgage fraud, an important credit risk of nonprime mortgage lending, which, they said, could lead to "a problem that could have as much impact as the S&L crisis".[123][124][125][126] Despite this, the Bush administration actually prevented states from investigating and prosecuting predatory lenders by invoking a banking law from 1863 "to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative."[127]

True, if you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough. Thanks for proving that.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
May 25, 2016 - 08:57am PT
kattz, you are unable to cite any of Trump's plans right?
Norton

Social climber
May 25, 2016 - 09:06am PT
K-man

can you reply with a link to your source for that, presume wiki?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 25, 2016 - 09:13am PT
Oh right, I missed the unfair part. Whaaa. He was mean to me and unfair, I should be able to keep my house right?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 25, 2016 - 09:34am PT
"Read up and you'll know about this plans. I'm not here to educate about it."


Soooooo classic. And typical.

And lame.


You have no answers, kattz. Just yellow custard spewing out of your arse.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 25, 2016 - 09:39am PT
K-man,

Do you have any idea how many loans were made that truly had incorrect or inaccurate information on them? The percentages were so low its not worth mentioning.

I think the numbers were significant. But Trump didn't have anything to do with those predatory practices or the victims of those practices. His comment was simply about taking advantage of the inevitable bust. About getting good deals from the note holders.
dirtbag

climber
May 25, 2016 - 09:46am PT
I've read about a few his plans, at least his plans at any given moment. Honestly I don't care that much about his plans. They are secondary to my main concerns, namely that he has a bad temperament, has the arrogant and dangerous characteristic of thinking he knows more than he does, an inflated ego, and extremely hateful and divisive messages and style. I know I've forgotten a few other bad traits.

If you want to talk about his policy monstrosities, we could start with his disastrous trade policies and plans to kill families of terrorists and go from there.
Norton

Social climber
May 25, 2016 - 09:46am PT
oh, now Edward is actually trying to defend someone who rooted for the Recession and real estate bust as a opportunity to further enrich himself

wow, how much more of a azz can you be....

ok, let us chalk up Edward as the Reality TV Star supporter and defender, along with the other mouth breathers here, couch, cosmic, pyro, madbolter and little esposeta
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
May 25, 2016 - 10:16am PT
K-man

can you reply with a link to your source for that, presume wiki?


Yes, it's from the Wikipedia page that I linked to a bit earlier.


As for Trump, no, nothing wrong with a businessman hoping for a bust so he can rake in the dough. What is wrong is that same man wants to be president over the people who he hoped would go down so he could take advantage of their ill-fortune.

If that's they guy who you think should run the country, then do you really love your country? I mean, here's a guy who's hoping that many of it's citizens will be foreclosed upon.

But, maybe this is over the head of the folks who like Trump.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 25, 2016 - 10:18am PT

"The arrogance of presuming/suggesting that Trump voters are less intelligent than Clinton voters is staggering."...


I'd agree with that. Intelligence is a hard thing to define anyway. They aren't necessarily less intelligent, they're just way more sexist, racist and fascist.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 25, 2016 - 10:20am PT
Oh look.... Norton's being a disingenuous d-bag.

How out of character.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 25, 2016 - 10:40am PT
"... I still have to conclude that Hillary Clinton remains the most qualified of the three remaining Presidential candidates. Trump may come across as less dishonest (really less calculating. How can anyone take seriously anything he says?), and Bernie as perfectly sincere, but Trump remains vacuous and Bernie unrealistic. I'm glad California is a foregone conclusion, so I won't feel compelled to vote for any of them. If California's vote mattered, however, Hillary still has my vote. How's that for an indictment of this year's field?"

John E
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 25, 2016 - 02:56pm PT
K-man, almost all mortgage fraud of which I was aware started with the borrowers. The lenders' personnel got prosecuted if they aided and abetted the fraud to get personally enriched. For example, one of my fellow prisoners was in the RV business, and was convicted on conspiracy to submit fraudulent credit applications to a national bank insured by the FDIC. The government's theory was that he aided potential RV buyers who could not afford one to get loans they could not repay, thereby selling an RV that otherwise would not be sold.

I have yet to hear a coherent theory of how a bank makes money loaning to uncreditworthy customers. Some lower-level employees, such as loan officers that are, essentially, sales people, can make money, and some customers can get money, but the banks don't.

That said, I must agree that Trump's policies currently constitute the null set.

John
Norton

Social climber
May 25, 2016 - 03:47pm PT
LYING and PERSONAL ETHICS are SO IMPORTANT IN KNOWING WHO TO VOTE FOR


101 lies from Donald Trump.

1. March 30: Trump claims MSNBC edited their released version of his interview with Chris Matthews in which Trump stumbled on abortion: “You really ought to hear the whole thing. I mean, this is a long convoluted question. This was a long discussion, and they just cut it out. And, frankly, it was extremely — it was really convoluted.” Nope; that was a lie.

2. March 29: Trump lies that Wisconsin’s effective unemployment rate is 20%, saying, ""What? Is it 20 percent? Effective or regular? I mean just -- effective unemployment rate, 20 percent. Hey, this is out of the big book." According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, The U-3 official unemployment rate in Wisconsin was 4.6 percent in 2015; Wisconsin’s U-6 rate for 2015 was 8.3 percent.

3. March 29: Told Sean Hannity, “You know, I look at what’s happening in Wisconsin with the numbers, the job numbers, the trade numbers, how it’s a stagnant economy, how they owe $2.2 billion in terms of their budget.” As Factcheck.org reported, Wisconsin’s general fund is currently projected to have a positive balance when its current two-year budget cycle ends next year, according to an analysis by nonpartisan budget experts.

4. March 29: Trump alleged that when Michelle Fields "found out that there was a security camera, and that they had her on tape, all of a sudden that story changed." Absolutely untrue.

5. March 29: Trump said the Secret Service was worried about Fields, alleging, "She went through the Secret Service, she had a pen in her hand, which Service Service is not liking because they don't know what it is, whether it's a little bomb…” As Katie Pavlich of Townhall noted, “All reporters at campaign events, like regular attendees, go through Secret Service security before being allowed into a venue. The security is thorough, with a back check, wanding and a metal detector walk through. Fields wasn't carrying a knife, she was carrying a pen and if the Secret Service thought it was dangerous, they would have taken it from her at the security checkpoint before entering the room.”

6. March 27: Trump claims Cruz bought the rights to the ad featuring a nude Melania Trump: Debunked.

7. March 26: Trump lies, "There’s a tremendous tax that we pay when we (American businesses) go into China, whereas when China sells to us there’s no tax." China’s tariffs are higher than those imposed by the United States, but the Chinese exporters are taxed when they sell in the United States.

8. March 23: Trump accuses Cruz of coordinating with Super PAC in its ad featuring a nude Melania Trump. Tweeting, “Lyin' Ted Cruz denied that he had anything to do with the G.Q. model photo post of Melania. That's why we call him Lyin' Ted!” Debunked.

Norton

Social climber
May 25, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
9. March 21: Trump lies, "Out of 67 counties (in Florida), I won 66, which is unprecedented. It's never happened before." Nope. In 2004, John Kerry won all 67 counties for the Democrats; in 2000, Al Gore won all 67 for the Democrats and. George W. Bush won all 67 for Republicans. In 1996, Bob Dole took 66 of 67 counties for the GOP primary and the 67th was a tie between Dole and Pat Buchanan in Washington County.

10. March 19: Trump said the 2016 federal omnibus spending bill "funds illegal immigrants coming in and through your border, right through Phoenix." Nope. The omnibus bill does not fund undocumented immigrants "coming in and through" the border; it funds the very agency tasked with keeping undocumented immigrants out, U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

11. March 17: Trump on Fox News denied that he ever accused President George W. Bush of lying about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. “I didn’t say lie. I said he may have lied.” That’s false. Trump said in a February that Bush “lied.”

12. March 13: Trump states that the man who rushed the stage in Dayton, Ohio, "had chatter about ISIS, or with ISIS" in his social media posts. Trump was fooled by a hoax video; the claim is ludicrous.

13. March 11: Lying about Cruz’s count of the states he had had won: “Wasn’t that funny last night when Cruz said, ‘I’m the only one that can beat Donald Trump. I have demonstrated that I can beat him. I won five states.’” Cruz correctly stated he won eight states, not five.
Norton

Social climber
May 25, 2016 - 03:49pm PT
14. March 10: Trump, the expert economist: "GDP was zero essentially for the last two quarters." GDP grew at an annual rate of 1 percent in the fourth quarter of 2015, and 2 percent in the third quarter, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

15. March 10: Trump claims Michelle Fields made up the story about being grabbed by Corey Lewandowski, blustering, "This was, in my opinion, made up. Everybody said nothing happened. Perhaps she made the story up. I think that's what happened."

16. March 9: “Eight weeks ago, they signed a budget that is so bad. It funds ISIS.” As POLITICO noted, “The omnibus spending bill, passed in December, is not strictly a budget, and it’s not clear what part of it Trump thinks gives money to ISIS.”

17. March 8: Trump brags that the Trump winery is the “largest winery on the East Coast.” "That’s not correct," said Michael Kaiser, spokesman for the National Association of American Wineries. Wine industry analysts calculate a winery’s size by the volume of wine produced. Trump Winery is not even the largest in Virginia. The top producers in the state are the Williamsburg Winery and Chateau Morrisette in Floyd County. In terms of sheer size in acreage, both the Wagner Vineyards Estate Winery in the Finger Lakes region of New York and Pindar Vineyards on New York’s Long Island are larger.

19. March 8: “Upstate New York I poll higher than anybody ever.” Hillary Clinton would slaughter Trump 56 percent to 33 percent in upstate New York, according to a Siena College poll.

20. March 8: Trump: “Trump steaks, where are the steaks? Do we have the steaks? We have Trump steaks.” Once sold briefly by The Sharper Image, the company’s website reads, “Unfortunately, Trump Steaks are no longer available, but their legacy endures.

21. March 8: Lying about how much was spent in one week against him: “So many horrible, horrible things said about me in one week. $38 million worth of horrible lies.” According to The Tracking Firm, every Republican dollar spent by Trump’s opponents on TV and radio from March 1 through 7 amounted to $10.57 million, and not all of it was directed against Trump.

22. March 8: Trump held up a magazine, claiming it was Trump magazine: "This comes out and it's called The Jewel of Palm Beach and it all goes to all of my clubs. I have had it for many years. It's the magazine. It's great. Anybody want one?" Trump Magazine folded in 2009.

23. March 7: Lying about his popularity after the Paris attacks: “After Paris, all of a sudden it started changing. We started getting polls in. And everybody liked Trump from the standpoint of ISIS, from the standpoint of the military. Less than 42% of respondents in a Washington Post-ABC poll said Trump was the best candidate to best handle the threat of terrorism.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 25, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
I have yet to hear a coherent theory of how a bank makes money loaning to uncreditworthy customers.

You mean like Greece or Argentina? ;-)
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 25, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
Keep 'er coming, Norton. The story must be told.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 25, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
K-man, almost all mortgage fraud of which I was aware started with the borrowers.

The FBI differs from what you are aware of.

So you can't make that claim again, here is their list of at least 10 different schemes banks and mortgage companies used to defraud customers.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/white_collar/mortgage-fraud/mortgage-fraud-overview
Norton

Social climber
May 25, 2016 - 05:37pm PT
MORE TRUMP LIES

24. March 7: “You have Japan, where the cars come in by the hundreds of thousands, they pour off the boats. ... [W]e send them like nothing. We send them nothing, by comparison, nothing.” The United States exported $62 billion worth of goods to Japan last year.

25. March 7: “I’ve spent the least money and I’m by far number 1. So I’ve spent the least.” As of Jan. 31, Trump’s campaign had spent $23.9 million, more than John Kasich’s campaign, which has spent $7.2 million, or $19.5 million if you include outside groups supporting him.

26. March 7: Trump says you don’t see “Made in the USA” anymore. As POLITICO reported: “The U.S. Economics and Statistics Administra’ in 2014 that found that U.S. manufacturers sold $4.4 trillion of goods that classify as ‘Made in the U.S.A.’”

27. March 7: “I’m self-funding my campaign. I’m not taking money. ... I’m not taking. I spent a lot of money. I don’t take.” As of Jan. 31, his campaign had accepted $7.5 million from donors not named Donald J. Trump.

28. March 7: Boasting he had spent $30 million on his campaign: “I’m already in for $30 million cash.” According to POLITICO, “As of then he had only contributed $250,318, plus the loan of $17.5 million.

29. March 7: “I think I have $50 million of negative ads against me in Florida. $50 million. Somebody said $50 million.” As of March 11, outside groups had spent $15 million in Florida.

30. March 3: Trump claims the wives of the 9/11 hijackers "knew exactly what was happening" and returned to Saudi Arabia two days before the attacks to watch their husbands on television flying the planes. The 9/11 Commission report stated that none of the hijackers had a wife, girlfriend or family member in the United States during the days or months leading up to the hijackings.

31. February 28: Trump claims that the New York Times can write a false story without being sued, snapping, “I think it's very unfair when the New York Times can write a story that they know is false, that they virtually told me they know it's false, and I say, why don't you pull the story, and they say, we're not going to do that, because they can't basically be sued.” the unanimous 1964 U.S. Supreme Court decision in New York Times vs. Sullivan states that the First Amendment does not protect statements made with "actual malice.”

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 25, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
I have yet to hear a coherent theory of how a bank makes money loaning to uncreditworthy customers.

selling mortgages is on commission. Those folk don't really care if it's in the bank's interests to sell a bad mortgage.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 25, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
"I have yet to hear a coherent theory of how a bank makes money loaning to uncreditworthy customers.

selling mortgages is on commission. Those folk don't really care if it's in the bank's interests to sell a bad mortgage."


A lot of loans are government guarantee. The banks had no skin in the game.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 25, 2016 - 05:58pm PT

May 25, 2016 - 05:51pm PT


A lot of loans are government guarantee. The banks had no skin in the game.

That's what the investors in Washington Mutual, Wachovia, and Bank of America thought.

I have some nice unused WM stationary I got from cleaning out one of their branch offices.

You want some?

How's you Bear -Stearns stock doing?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 25, 2016 - 06:06pm PT
Trump supporter response
He will be more presidential when he becomes President

That's how it works...
We pick the King to be King, and after we give him the power

He becomes the KING that we picked to have the power!!, and saves us all G-dly supporters, that believe his message will save us
and we all get rich and live happily ever after
The End
Norton

Social climber
May 25, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
31. February 28: Trump claims that the New York Times can write a false story without being sued, snapping, “I think it's very unfair when the New York Times can write a story that they know is false, that they virtually told me they know it's false, and I say, why don't you pull the story, and they say, we're not going to do that, because they can't basically be sued.” the unanimous 1964 U.S. Supreme Court decision in New York Times vs. Sullivan states that the First Amendment does not protect statements made with "actual malice.”

32. February 29, after his Nevada win: Trump brags that he is “number one with Hispanics.” Except 93 percent of the Latinos in Nevada did not support Trump. A Washington Post-Univision poll in February found that 80% of registered Hispanic voters viewed Trump unfavorably.

33. February 28: "We (Trump University) have an ‘A’ from the Better Business Bureau." In reality, BBB received multiple consumer complaints about Trump university, which sank to a D-minus in 2010. The reason Trump University rose to an A in July 2014 was that as the company looked to be closing after 2013, no new complaints were reported. Complaints over three years old automatically rolled off of the business review, according to BBB policy. Further, Trump University was never been a BBB-accredited business. When debate moderators were given a document by the Trump campaign, it could not have been an actual Better Business Bureau accreditation notice for Trump University.

34. February 28, with Chris Wallace: Trump claimed that “many of” the university’s instructors were “handpicked” by him. That’s not true. In a 2012 deposition, a top executive for Trump University said that “none of our instructors” was picked by Trump himself.

35. February 28, with Wallace: Trump said that “98 percent of the people that took the courses … thought they were terrific.” A class-action lawsuit against Trump alleges that the surveys were not anonymous and were filled out during or immediately after sessions when participants were still expecting to receive future benefits from the program.

36. February 28: “I don’t know anything about David Duke,” to Jake Tapper. Trump not only has mentioned Duke in the past but actually repudiated him during a Bloomberg interview in August 2015. Fifteen years ago, when Trump was considering running for president as a Reform Party candidate, he named Duke a cause for concern. “Well, you’ve got David Duke just joined — a big racist, a problem. I mean, this is not exactly the people you want in your party,” he said.

37. February 25, on Trump University: “I’ve won most of the lawsuits.” Not true, as The Washington Post has noted.

38. February 25 debate: Lying about his support for national health care. Cruz says, “Donald, true or false, you’ve said the government should pay for everyone’s health care.” Trump: “That’s false.” Cruz: “But you’ve never stood on this debate stage and says it works great in Canada and Scotland and we should do it here?” Trump’s response? “No, I did not. No I did not.” Trump told 60 Minutes’ Scott Pelley in September 2015 that he’d “take care of everybody” and that the government would pay for it. In the first Republican debate of the election season, Trump stated, “As far as single payer, it works in Canada. It works incredibly well in Scotland.”

39. February 25 debate: Trump accused Cruz of lying regarding his support for toppling Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, saying, “He said I was in favor in Libya. I never discussed that subject. I was in favor of Libya? We would be so much better off if Gaddafi would be in charge right now.” Buzzfeed published a 2011 video of Trump in which he called to get rid of Gaddafi
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 25, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
Trump will make america great again...He's not perfect...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 25, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
No wonder some of the tards on here want to vote for Bernie. Like him, most of you don't even know how banking and mortgages even work. Good grief.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 25, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
I'm voting for Hillary for the CA Primary

I support the current Democratic progressive platform
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 25, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
I have yet to hear a coherent theory of how a bank makes money loaning to uncreditworthy customers.

By bundling the loans, getting a rating agency to give them inflated ratings and then selling the mortgages?
Norton

Social climber
May 25, 2016 - 06:36pm PT
40. February 23: Trump says he won the youth vote in Nevada. Not true.

41. February 21: Trump said a “recent poll” showed 25 percent of blacks support him in a hypothetical race against Hillary Clinton. That “recent poll” was from September., Fox News, Feb. 15-17: 10 percent. USA Today/Suffolk, Feb. 11-15: 7 percent. Quinnipiac University, Feb. 10-15: 12 percent; Morning Consult: Feb. 3-7: 11 percent. Public Policy Polling, Feb. 2-3: 4 percent. Quinnipiac University, Feb. 2-4: 4 percent to 12 percent.

42. February: Trump calls Cruz a liar for running an ad accusing Trump of letting the federal government stay in charge of the state lands they own and not return them to the states. Of course, Cruz was telling the truth, as you see here.

43. Trump claims he “lost hundreds of friends” on 9/11. That lie may have been the most cynical one; as The Daily Beast reported, “If he has hundreds of friends, he should be able to tell us about them,” said a Port Authority police officer who never talks about how many comrades he lost. “If he can tell us about the hundreds of friends he lost, who they were, what kind of person they were, I might have some respect for him.”

44. February 13; "I'm the only one on this stage that said, ‘Do not go into Iraq. Do not attack Iraq.’” There is no known public record of Trump taking a clear stance against the war before it began.

45. February 7: "If we competitively bid drugs in the United States, we can save as much as $300 billion a year.” As the Washington Post pointed out,“Total spending in Medicare Part D (prescription drugs) in 2014 was $78 billion. So Trump, in effect, is claiming to save $300 billion a year on a $78 billion program. That’s like turning water into wine."

46. February 5: Donald Trump claimed that the loan rates Ted Cruz received during his 2012 Senate run were “lower than you could get, lower than anybody could get.” Evidence shows the interest rates Cruz reported were attainable at the time.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 25, 2016 - 06:42pm PT
I have yet to hear a coherent theory of how a bank makes money loaning to uncreditworthy customers.

0.)

What Gary said above.

1.)

How about, if despite their unworthiness, the unworthy make payments on loans the banks made? Their money making comes in loaning money at more than they pay for it and yes they factor in 'badass' loans in the rates they charge.


2.)

While we're looking around, take a gander at how many properties were foreclosed and then 'sat on' until they came back up to a market value equal or in most cases more than the amount of the mortgage.

3.) Tax implications? 4$-SURE.

If you don't see the problems in what occurred, call in Mr. Magoo.




Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 25, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 25, 2016 - 06:52pm PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 25, 2016 - 06:58pm PT
^^^^^^^^
Exactly.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 25, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
By bundling the loans, getting a rating agency to give them inflated ratings and then selling the mortgages?

And why is there a market to sell those mortgages in the first place? Who would possibly be so stupid as the underwrite those mortgages to such un-creditworthy borrowers?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 25, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
stupid

Not stupid, criminal.

And why is there a market to sell those mortgages in the first place?

Answer your own question.








apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 25, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
Did you see 'The Big Short', Esco?

That should explain things for you....

But you'll have to pay attention.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 25, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
Does anyone think the U.S. will ever get to a point where folks are not voting for the "lesser of two evils" or abstaining?

Admittedly I do not know what the actual percentages are, but I'm guessing that the "lesser" voters is a huge number.
Jorroh

climber
May 25, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
Poor Escopeta just can't get his head around the facts of the mortgage meltdown.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 25, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
I'm guessing about 40% will happily vote for Hillary, another 12-15% will hold their nose.
Then see how she does. She has a history of exceeding expectations on a job. You might be surprised. Check back after the Dem convention with your take.
Norton

Social climber
May 25, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
51. Taped January 16: Trump denied saying that Americans detained by Iran would “never” be released during the Obama administration. In September, Trump said that “frankly they’re never going to come back with this group.”

52. Also taped January 16: Trump claimed “all of the latest polls have me No. 1 in Iowa.” The Des Moines Register/Bloomberg Politics Iowa Poll released Jan. 13 showed him behind Ted Cruz by three points.

53. January 15: "We’re losing now over $500 billion a year in terms of imbalance with China." The 2014 trade deficit totaled $343 billion.

54. January 15 GOP debate: Trump denied ever telling the New York Times he had called for a 45% tariff on Chinese goods. He lied.

55. January 15: Trump said the terrorist attacks in Paris last year happened despite the city having "the strictest no-gun policy of any city anywhere in the world." In France, private gun ownership, while heavily regulated, is permitted. France has the twelfth most guns per capita in the world.

56. December 18, on Morning Joe: “Our country is falling apart, frankly. Our infrastructure is a disaster. Our bridges are falling down. Sixty-one percent of our bridges are in danger.” As of 2014, according to the agency, about 61,000 of the country’s 611,000 bridges were rated as "structurally deficient," which works out to 10 percent.

57. December 2: Claimed he had predicted Osama bin Laden’s ascension in his book The America We Deserve, blustering, "I said in that book that we better be careful with this guy named Osama bin Laden. I mean I really study this stuff … And now people are seeing that, they’re saying, “You know, Trump predicted Osama bin Laden.” The America We Deserve makes one reference to bin Laden. It doesn’t write “we better be careful with this guy named Osama bin Laden,” or that the U.S. “better take him out.” All Trump wrote was this: “One day we’re told that a shadowy figure with no fixed address named Osama bin-Laden is public enemy number one, and U.S. jetfighters lay waste to his camp in Afghanistan. He escapes back under some rock, and a few news cycles later it’s on to a new enemy and new crisis.”

58. November 23: Trump claimed 81 percent of murdered white people are killed by black people. The truth? 84 percent of murdered white people are murdered by other white people. Trump cited the “Crime Statistics Bureau—San Francisco,” which doesn’t exist except in the mind of a white supremacist on Twitter.

59. November 21: Trump: “Hey, I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down.” There is no evidence to support that claim.

60. November 14: Trump: "Our president wants to take in 250,000 from Syria." Nope, more like 10,000.

61. November 9, on Putin. This one was hilarious. Trump: “I got to know him very well because we were both on 60 Minutes … We were stablemates, and we did very well that night.” The two men were interviewed separately in different countries thousands of miles apart.

62. October 31: Trump claimed that John Oliver's program "Last Week Tonight" had invited him to appear on the show "four or five times." Oliver’s response? "Who's he trying to impress with that lie?"
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 25, 2016 - 07:36pm PT
And why is there a market to sell those mortgages in the first place? Who would possibly be so stupid as the underwrite those mortgages to such un-creditworthy borrowers?

Because of good old fashioned Wall Street fraud?

http://www.businessinsider.com/mortgage-fraud-scandal-2010-10
We have long known that lender fraud was rampant during the real estate boom. The FBI began warning of an “epidemic” of mortgage fraud as early as 2004. We know that mortgage originators invented “low doc” and “no doc” loans, encouraged borrowers to take out “liar loans”, and promoted “NINJA loans” (no income, no job, no assets, no problem!). All of these schemes were fraudulent from the get-go. Property appraisers were involved, paid to overvalue real estate. That is fraud. The securitizers packaged trash into bundles that ratings agencies blessed with the triple A seal of approval. By their own admission, raters worked with securitizers to provide the rating desired, never looking at the loan tapes to see what they were rating. Fraud. Venerable investment banks like Goldman Sachs packaged the trashiest securities into collateralized debt obligations at the behest of hedge fund managers--who were allowed to choose the most toxic of the toxic waste—then sold the CDOs on to their own customers and allowed the hedge funds to bet against them. More fraud.

That entire article is an interesting read.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_rating_agencies_and_the_subprime_crisis
In the wake of the financial crisis of 2007–2010, the rating agencies came under criticism from investigators, economists, and journalists. The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission (FCIC)[39] set up by the US Congress and President to investigate the causes of the crisis, and publisher of the Financial Crisis Inquiry Report (FCIR), concluded that the "failures" of the Big Three rating agencies were "essential cogs in the wheel of financial destruction" and "key enablers of the financial meltdown".[40] It went on to say

The mortgage-related securities at the heart of the crisis could not have been marketed and sold without their seal of approval. Investors relied on them, often blindly. In some cases, they were obligated to use them, or regulatory capital standards were hinged on them. This crisis could not have happened without the rating agencies. Their ratings helped the market soar and their downgrades through 2007 and 2008 wreaked havoc across markets and firms."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-last-mystery-of-the-financial-crisis-20130619

Thanks to a mountain of evidence gathered for a pair of major lawsuits by the San Diego-based law firm Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd, documents that for the most part have never been seen by the general public, we now know that the nation's two top ratings companies, Moody's and S&P, have for many years been shameless tools for the banks, willing to give just about anything a high rating in exchange for cash.

In incriminating e-mail after incriminating e-mail, executives and analysts from these companies are caught admitting their entire business model is crooked.

"Lord help our f*#king scam . . . this has to be the stupidest place I have worked at," writes one Standard & Poor's executive. "As you know, I had difficulties explaining 'HOW' we got to those numbers since there is no science behind it," confesses a high-ranking S&P analyst. "If we are just going to make it up in order to rate deals, then quants [quantitative analysts] are of precious little value," complains another senior S&P man. "Let's hope we are all wealthy and retired by the time this house of card[s] falters," ruminates one more.


zBrown

Ice climber
May 25, 2016 - 07:36pm PT
... middle- and high-income borrowers constituted a much larger share of mortgage dollars in delinquency than poor borrowers. A similar pattern emerged for borrowers with high credit scores. During normal economic times, the mortgage default rate for high credit score borrowers is 1%; for low-credit score borrowers, commonly known as subprime borrowers, the default rate typically hovers at 5%. However, in 2008—as the housing bubble started to burst—the average default rate for subprime borrowers rose to 9%, while the average default rate for high credit score borrowers rose to 4%.

“In other words, what’s different about the crisis is not that defaults became particularly concentrated in low-income or low credit score borrowers, but rather that middle- and high income households—and middle and high credit score borrowers—significantly increased their share of defaults once house prices dropped,” says Schoar.

The crux of the problem is that the financial system was ill equipped for these groups of people to default. “The banks were caught unaware,” she says. “They were not prepared for middle- and high-income borrowers to default out of necessity, nor were they able to cope with those who strategically defaulted since the value of their asset had fallen so dramatically.”
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 25, 2016 - 07:37pm PT

Trump and the Mob
The budding mogul had a soft spot (but a short memory) for wiseguys.

By Tom Robbins

Looking Back at the stories about, and excerpts from, the history of criminal justice.

Donald Trump’s views on criminal justice remain one of those mysteries he will presumably carry with him, if elected, into the Oval Office, where he’ll sort it all out with the help of the nation’s best minds. We do know that he’s a “huge fan” of the police, and that he’d like to see them get more power. But he hasn’t suggested what kind of power, or how he’d do that. More jobs would solve the problem of mass incarceration, he told the Washington Post editorial board last month. And he’s been crystal clear on the death penalty, which he would make harsher by eliminating lethal injections since they’re “too comfortable.”

But one helpful lens for determining Trump’s views on crime and law enforcement is via his past encounters with those alleged to be on the wrong side of the law. That’s his history with the mob. And for all of his tough law and order rhetoric, the record shows the GOP frontrunner has been remarkably tolerant. In the course of his forty years of business deals, Trump has encountered a steady stream of mob-tainted offers that he apparently couldn’t refuse.

Actually, there’s an old FBI memo that puts a different spin on Trump’s attitude about the mob. It is a classic example of a young but already shrewd Trump hard at work. It was written in 1981 by a veteran Bureau agent, reflecting meetings that he and a fellow FBI official were having with the 35-year-old developer from Queens, then a rising star in New York's business firmament. The topic of the meetings was Trump's pending plunge into the Atlantic City casino industry. And while the memo was written in the stilted language of FBI-bureaucratese, Trump's wide-eyed comments were recorded with what seems like barely suppressed amusement. "Trump advised agents that he had read in the press and media and had heard from various acquaintances that Organized Crime elements were known to operate in Atlantic City," the memo states.


see link
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2016/04/27/trump-and-the-mob#.kFzPWnI2t
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 25, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 25, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
So, nobody knows or is no one willing to admit why there was such a robust secondary market for all these Sub and Super Sub prime mortgages?

Why on earth would banks be willing to lend money to people who clearly couldn't qualify for a loan?

As I said previously, this is why idiots like Bernie Clinton and Hillary Trump can garner a following.

And Apogee, when your knowledge of a subject is limited to that which you gleaned from a Hollywood movie, you have not reached the - You Must Be This Smart to Post minimum for the topic.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 25, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
LISTEN: Glenn Beck and guest wonder whether a ‘patriot’ will assassinate Trump

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/listen-glenn-beck-and-guest-wonder-whether-any-patriot-will-assassinate-trump/
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 25, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
Esco, remember yer talking to a bunch that thinks personal responsibility is really a matter
for the gubmint to oversee in all facets of yer life because our education system can't be
expected to produce high school or college graduates who understand the arcane intricacies
of an adjustable rate mortgage.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 25, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
So, nobody knows or is no one willing to admit why there was such a robust secondary market for all these Sub and Super Sub prime mortgages?

Why on earth would banks be willing to lend money to people who clearly couldn't qualify for a loan?

Apparently, you're the only one who hasn't figured it out. Did you read the Business Insider article?

"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." -- H. L. Mencken
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 25, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
Perhaps you're right Reilly....
zBrown

Ice climber
May 25, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
^He knows how to run his mouth. Doesn't appear to know how to read.

zBrown

Ice climber
May 25, 2016 - 08:00pm PT


... middle- and high-income borrowers constituted a much larger share of mortgage dollars in delinquency than poor borrowers. A similar pattern emerged for borrowers with high credit scores. During normal economic times, the mortgage default rate for high credit score borrowers is 1%; for low-credit score borrowers, commonly known as subprime borrowers, the default rate typically hovers at 5%. However, in 2008—as the housing bubble started to burst—the average default rate for subprime borrowers rose to 9%, while the average default rate for high credit score borrowers rose to 4%.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 25, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
Ready for [the return of] Bernie Madoof [sic-Muslim isn't he?]. Hell yes.

Never give a sucker an even break.





Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 25, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
"So, nobody knows or is no one willing to admit why there was such a robust secondary market for all these Sub and Super Sub prime mortgages?

Why on earth would banks be willing to lend money to people who clearly couldn't qualify for a loan?"

Because they were packaging the loans up and selling them to unsuspecting outsiders. The banks knew they were worthless, so sold them off in tranches that they knew were worthless. They really didn't give sh#t whether the people would be able to repay them or not; they made their money off the top. In fact, the more money they 'lent' the more profit they made.

Bottom line: they knew what they were doing, lending money to people who did not qualify, but were planning. willing, and able to sell the mortgages to others, who would take the hit. Does that explain it?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 25, 2016 - 08:51pm PT
Holy F*#k. Now they sold them to "unsuspecting investors".

You mean like the Fake Rolex guy on the street corner that sells fake rolexes to unsuspecting tourists in Times Square?

Good lord.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 25, 2016 - 11:58pm PT
Holy F*#k. Now they sold them to "unsuspecting investors".

You mean like the Fake Rolex guy on the street corner that sells fake rolexes to unsuspecting tourists in Times Square?

The cups and ball scam is a better analogy.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

More like the Merril Lynch guys who gave false info on short sale offers to investors.

https://www.sec.gov/news/pressrelease/2015-105.html

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 26, 2016 - 06:10am PT
Escopeta posted
Holy F*#k. Now they sold them to "unsuspecting investors".

You mean like the Fake Rolex guy on the street corner that sells fake rolexes to unsuspecting tourists in Times Square?

Good lord.

Are those Rolexes rated AAA by world renown credit rating agencies who turned out to be lying through their teeth to ensure their massive profits? Are those fake Rolexes bundled with actual ones in super complex packaging that makes it virtually impossible to unravel without being a financial wizard? Cause if so, nice job, fake Rolex dude!
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 26, 2016 - 06:25am PT
Holy F*#k. Now they sold them to "unsuspecting investors".

You mean like the Fake Rolex guy on the street corner that sells fake rolexes to unsuspecting tourists in Times Square?

Good lord.

Even Jesus apparently lost his sh!t over the banksters.....

It didn't end well for him though.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 26, 2016 - 07:39am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
zBrown

Ice climber
May 26, 2016 - 07:42am PT
Our bureaucracy in action.

WASHINGTON – The government is squandering its technology budget maintaining museum-ready computer systems in critical areas from nuclear weapons to Social Security. They're still using floppy disks at the Pentagon.



— The Defense Department's Strategic Automated Command and Control System, which is used to send and receive emergency action messages to U.S. nuclear forces. The system is running on a 1970s IBM computing platform, and still uses 8-inch floppy disks to store data. "Replacement parts for the system are difficult to find because they are now obsolete," GAO said. The Pentagon told GAO it is initiating a full replacement and the floppy disks should be gone by the end of next year. The entire upgrade will take longer.

FORTRAN programmers are being sought as we speak?

If they're 55 years old and still functioning, why is so much money being spent on them. Who has that contract CVCC Brent Wilkes*?

Why the delay? Ask Ryan and that Kentucky guy.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/05/26/government-spending-billions-to-keep-antique-computer-systems-running.html

*Noted Chula Vista corrupter of Congressmen.
frank wyman

Mountain climber
montana
May 26, 2016 - 07:46am PT
Well.."Trump" is coming to Montana today,Live radio feed at 4:00pm. I hope it does not turn in to a riot of protesters to give yet another blackeye to these events. Police want to charge him for all the overtime they will be stuck with. We shall see...
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
May 26, 2016 - 08:08am PT
eta: Forget this, Trump has reached the required delegate count.

Well.."Trump" is coming to Montana today,Live radio feed at 4:00pm.


Interesting. He's the only survivor and he's still campaigning.
What if he loses?

I would find it a cold comfort, were I one of the Democratic candidates. He'll suck up some airtime on the evening sn00ze, for one thing. It may even be, he is already campaigning like it's the general.


http://www.kulr8.com/story/32067582/montana-republican-primary-what-happens-if-trump-doesnt-win

BILLINGS -
Originally, there were 17 Republican presidential candidates. Only Donald Trump remains, making him the presumptive nominee. But on June 7, when Montanans head to the polls, voters will see the names of several other Republican candidates who have suspended their campaigns on the ballot.

What happens if voters choose to vote for a candidate who's dropped out of the race?

Political Analyst Lee Banville said if a candidate gets enough votes, a few of the delegates going to the Republican National Convention will be pledged, or committed, to voting for those candidates in the first ballot -- even if that candidate is no longer running for office.

kattz

climber
May 26, 2016 - 08:21am PT
Racism!!
One real racism at this point is against White population.

Hateful racists at the protest against Hillary:
One held a sign that said, “White Feminism Is Not Feminis—Keep White Imperialists Out of Riverside!

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/bernie-sanders-clinton/484439/
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 26, 2016 - 08:23am PT
kattz posted
Racism!!
One real racism at this point is against White population.

Mmmm yes. The cogs of the American machine just don't seem to work for white people.
kattz

climber
May 26, 2016 - 08:25am PT
Perhaps because it's based on merit and not on affirmative action BS.
dirtbag

climber
May 26, 2016 - 08:30am PT
Yes, since its inception this has been a black person's country. They've gotten all the breaks. We white folks have been the oppressed ones all along. We have higher rates of unemployment, poverty and chronic dieseases.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 26, 2016 - 08:35am PT
kattz posted
Perhaps because it's based on merit and not on affirmative action BS.


Ahh, right. Because white people are just naturally more meritorious. No racism here!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
May 26, 2016 - 08:35am PT
Holy F*#k. Now they sold them to "unsuspecting investors".

Well that's not actually correct. The banks lied about the ratings of the packages of loans they sold. So "unsuspecting investors" is a misnomer--the investors read that the packages of loans were triple-A rated, which of course, they were not.

Funny Escopeta, you seem bright, but when you get down to it, you show that you don't really understand some of the basics about which you talk.

So your motto, "if you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough," seems to be something you live by. At least you are good for sticking to that.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 26, 2016 - 08:53am PT
K-man .... you are so off base, in you assumption... I had to laugh out loud.

I have coffee in my nose now.

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
May 26, 2016 - 09:03am PT
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/donald-trump-white-nationalist-afp-delegate-california

Make 'merica racist again. Openly select "white nationalist" as a delegate, then lie about it when you are busted. Way to consolidate your racist base Donny!

That is the kind of "strength" Trump's supporters value so highly. You must be so proud.


dirtbag

climber
May 26, 2016 - 09:08am PT
Here's Donald Trump, making America great again:






































































Norton

Social climber
May 26, 2016 - 09:52am PT

100 Trump LIES continued

64. October 25, tweeted: “Word is that Ford Motor, because of my constant badgering at packed events, is going to cancel their deal to go to Mexico and stay in U.S.” One problem: Ford made that decision four years ago. The company stated, “We decided to move the F-650 and F-750 medium-duty trucks to Ohio Assembly in 2011, long before any candidates announced their intention to run for U.S. president.”

65. October 4: Trump: “You know that was a gun-free zone in Oregon where they had no guns allowed, no nothing. So the only one that had the gun was the bad guy, and everybody was sitting there and there was nothing they could do. Not a thing they could do.” Rebecca Redell, UCC’s vice president and chief financial officer: The student misconduct policy regarding firearms does not apply to students with a valid concealed weapons permit. There is a general prohibition against the possession of weapons on campus that would apply to College patrons, but this, similarly would not apply to those with valid concealed weapon permits pursuant to Oregon law

66. September 30: “The state of Florida had sanctuary cities while Jeb Bush was governor. Nobody said anything.” According to a report from the Congressional Research Service issued in August 2006, when Bush was governor, there were 32 cities and counties nationwide that had “sanctuary policies.” None of those on the list is in Florida.

67. September 29: Trump op-ed on his tax plan in WSJ: “With moderate growth, this plan will be revenue-neutral.”said his tax plan is revenue neutral. The pro-business Tax Foundation estimated the Trump plan would reduce revenues to the Treasury by more than $10 trillion over 10 years, even assuming his plan would create economic growth.

68. September 16: "Just the other day, 2 years old, 2½ years old, a child, a beautiful child went to have the vaccine, and came back, and a week later got a tremendous fever, got very, very sick, now is autistic." There is no evidence a link exists between recommended vaccines and autism

69. September 16: Trump said Mexico doesn’t have a birthright citizenship policy. It does.

70. September 16: Trump lies that he didn’t want casino gambling in Florida during the GOP debate. Jeb Bush: “The one guy that had some special interest that I know of — that tried to get me my views on something, that was generous and gave me money — was Donald Trump. He wanted casino gambling in Florida." Trump: "Totally false." In the late 1990s, Trump tried to build a multimillion-dollar casino with the Seminole Tribe of Florida, according to CNN.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 26, 2016 - 09:54am PT
The banks lied about the ratings of the packages of loans they sold. So "unsuspecting investors" is a misnomer--the investors read that the packages of loans were triple-A rated, which of course, they were not.

Oh Lordy. We went from the fake Rolex guy to the banks randomly rating their own SIV loan traunches. This gets better and better.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 26, 2016 - 09:57am PT
I, too, can make haughtily dismissive posts without saying anything.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 26, 2016 - 10:09am PT
"haughtily dismissive posts without saying anything."

That should be in your avatar description, Esco.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 26, 2016 - 10:13am PT
I, too, can make haughtily dismissive posts without saying anything.

I was unaware that fact was up for debate. I took it as a given.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 26, 2016 - 10:30am PT
A New Look at the U.S. Foreclosure Crisis: Panel Data Evidence of Prime and Subprime Borrowers from 1997 to 2012
Fernando Ferreira, Joseph Gyourko
NBER Working Paper No. 21261
Issued in June 2015
NBER Program(s): AP CF EFG IFM LS ME PE POL
Utilizing new panel micro data on the ownership sequences of all types of borrowers from 1997-2012 leads to a reinterpretation of the U.S. foreclosure crisis as more of a prime, rather than a subprime, borrower issue. Moreover, traditional mortgage default factors associated with the economic cycle, such as negative equity, completely account for the foreclosure propensity of prime borrowers relative to all-cash owners, and for three-quarters of the analogous subprime gap. Housing traits, race, initial income, and speculators did not play a meaningful role, and initial leverage only accounts for a small variation in outcomes of prime and subprime borrowers.

You may purchase this paper on-line in .pdf format from SSRN.com ($5) for electronic delivery.



↓ ↓

JE. That appears to be what Fernando Ferreira and Joseph Gyourko are saying. I believe they are both at Trump's alma mater Wharton. For five bucks we can read it ourselves. I'll look for some academic responses.


This appears to be what F&G were responding to more than being a response to them.

A SIMPLE MODEL OF SUBPRIME BORROWERS AND CREDIT
GROWTH
ALEJANDRO JUSTINIANO, GIORGIO E. PRIMICERI, AND ANDREA TAMBALOTTI
Abstract. The surge in credit and house prices that preceded the Great Recession
was particularly pronounced in ZIP codes with a higher fraction of subprime borrowers
(Mian and Sufi, 2009). We present a simple model with prime and subprime borrowers
distributed across geographic locations, which can reproduce this stylized fact as a result
of an expansion in the supply of credit. Due to their low income, subprime households are
constrained in their ability to meet interest payments and hence sustain debt. As a result,
when the supply of credit increases and interest rates fall, they take on disproportionately
more debt than their prime counterparts, who are not subject to that constraint.
'

Needless to say, there are some conflicting opinions in this arena.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 26, 2016 - 12:51pm PT

This page does not seem to exist…

This is what I got when I went to the page you sent me to, Lorenzo. Did you give me the right address?

John

Edit; zBrown, are you saying that the mortgage crisis was caused by traditional economic factors, rather than by the massive fraud of Wall Street?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 26, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
Wall Street fraud wasn't limited to subprime mortgages.

I benefited greatly from Countrywide's loosening of mortgage requirements back in 2003 because I was self-employed. I got a got a stated income loan based on a credit check and their ability to verify the website I said I owned actually existed (but not a paycheck or other paperwork that had anything to do with it). The difference was I could actually afford my house. It was the best thing that ever happened to me financially and I was able to create a solid nest egg.
dirtbag

climber
May 26, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
Vince Foster's brother lets Trump have it for insinuating that Hillary was involved in murdering him.

It is beyond contempt that a politician would use a family tragedy to further his candidacy, but such is the character of Donald Trump displayed in his recent comments to The Washington Post. In this interview, Trump cynically, crassly and recklessly insinuated that my brother, Vincent W. Foster Jr., may have been murdered because “he had intimate knowledge of what was going on” and that Hillary Clinton may have somehow played a role in Vince’s death.

How wrong. How irresponsible. How cruel.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/vince-foster-was-my-brother-donald-trump-should-be-ashamed/2016/05/26/95c684f2-233f-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html


But because Hillary.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 26, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
That crazy stuff IS what they like about him, Locker.

He can say all the racist stuff they can't because he's not PC.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 26, 2016 - 01:18pm PT
And I wonder why Countrywide loosened their standards? I'm curious about who would buy such awful loans made with minimal standards on the secondary market?

What would have driven the whole thing to get started in that direction in the first place. There had to be a HUGE market made for these sub prime loans in the first place. Well before the ratings agencies abhorrent conflict of interest, well before the dizzying structured investments and whatever else K-man thinks caused the meltdown.

There's a bailout that everyone wants to sweep under the rug because it doesn't fit their rhetoric.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 26, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
Good day for Trump voters...
Magic number he is now the nominee!!!!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 26, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
Does that mean you get to take the cellophane tape off and go full commit mode? Lol. Sorry pyro, had to do it.
dirtbag

climber
May 26, 2016 - 01:33pm PT
Pyro, here's Donald kicking ass, not kissing it:


Tough guy!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 26, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
He's a guy that will say what he has to say to get you in the car.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 26, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
Now that's a creepy way to look at it....

but it works.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 26, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
Do any Trump supporters care that's he lies to them by the hour?

$$ for vets...oops, forgot.

Trump lies and lies and lies again

IT MIGHT be a fun parlor game, if the future of the country weren’t at stake: How many lies by Donald Trump can be found in one news article? Post reporter David A. Fahrenthold set out to get a few simple answers about Mr. Trump’s claims of donating to veterans. What he got were lies and evasions about practically every detail.

Mr. Trump made a show of raising what he said was $6 million for veterans groups, including a $1 million donation from himself, at an Iowa campaign event in January. Four months later, Post reporters tried to determine if Mr. Trump, who often exploits his support for veterans to get the rhetorical upper hand on interviewers and opponents, really raised as much as he claimed, how much had been distributed, and to whom.

Corey Lewandowski, Mr. Trump’s campaign manager, said last week that Mr. Trump had raised only $4.5 million, not the $6 million the candidate boasted about, because some donors — Mr. Lewandowski did not say who — failed to follow through on their pledges. Then, in a Post interview Tuesday, Mr. Trump said that the number is $5.5 million and that all the pledges had come in. Why the shifting stories? Almost certainly because Mr. Trump had not given the $1 million of his own money he promised until, apparently, Post reporters started asking questions.

Mr. Trump’s campaign said last week that he had already handed out the $1 million he pledged. This was lie No. 1. After Post reporters began publicly asking veterans groups if any of them got money from Mr. Trump, the Marine Corps-Law Enforcement Foundation received a phone call Monday from Mr. Trump, promising his $1 million to the group. Mr. Trump blamed the delay on needing to vet charities. That was likely lie No. 2: Though other people’s donations began flowing to various charities well before now, his came only after Post reporters pressed the matter. Topping it off was lie No. 3: He said he never claimed that he raised $6 million, despite video proof.

Mr. Trump’s reaction to being scrutinized? He took to social media to denounce “bad publicity from the dishonest and disgusting media.”

Donald Trump's latest Four-Pinocchio statement. Here are the last four of his claims that the Post's Fact Checker gave Four Pinocchios. (Jenny Starrs,Michelle Lee/The Washington Post)

This was not the first time that Mr. Trump abused the truth this week. In a nod to fact-ignoring conservative fantasists, he raised the theory that Vince Foster, a Clinton confidant who committed suicide in 1993, was murdered. Mr. Trump did so despite the fact that multiple investigations, including by aggressive Clinton investigator Kenneth Starr, confirmed that Foster’s death was a suicide. As conspiracy-mongering goes, this is worse even than Mr. Trump’s association with the “birthers.” He is using a dead man, whose family has pleaded to be left in peace, for a mendacious political attack. That is disgusting as well as dishonest.

Partisan solidarity and fear of Hillary Clinton are driving Republicans to consolidate around Mr. Trump, and the typical horse-race journalism that has emerged since he became the presumptive GOP nominee normalizes his campaign. But the Republican Party, the media and voters cannot pretend that Mr. Trump is a normal candidate. Mr. Trump is pathologically dishonest and morally bankrupt. How many more lies will he tell before the week is over? Republicans who care about their integrity should be counting along with us.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 26, 2016 - 02:23pm PT
Esco: Oh Lordy. We went from the fake Rolex guy to the banks randomly rating their own SIV loan traunches. This gets better and better.

It's 'tranches' not traunches. Since you seem so determined to act stupid, here's a short excerpt from wiki on CDOs and tranches and the evolution they went through to become a major factor in sub-prime mortgages:

"A collateralized debt obligation (CDO) is a type of structured asset-backed security (ABS).[1] Originally developed for the corporate debt markets, over time CDOs evolved to encompass the mortgage and mortgage-backed security ("MBS") markets.[2]

Like other private label securities backed by assets, a CDO can be thought of as a promise to pay investors in a prescribed sequence, based on the cash flow the CDO collects from the pool of bonds or other assets it owns. The CDO is "sliced" into "tranches", which "catch" the cash flow of interest and principal payments in sequence based on seniority.[3] If some loans default and the cash collected by the CDO is insufficient to pay all of its investors, those in the lowest, most "junior" tranches suffer losses first. The last to lose payment from default are the safest, most senior tranches. Consequently, coupon payments (and interest rates) vary by tranche with the safest/most senior tranches receiving the lowest rates and the lowest tranches receiving the highest rates to compensate for higher default risk. As an example, a CDO might issue the following tranches in order of safeness: Senior AAA (sometimes known as "super senior"); Junior AAA; AA; A; BBB; Residual.[4]

Separate special purpose entities—rather than the parent investment bank—issue the CDOs and pay interest to investors. As CDOs developed, some sponsors repackaged tranches into yet another iteration, known as "CDO-squared", "CDOs of CDOs" or "synthetic CDOs".[4]

In the early 2000s, CDOs were generally diversified,[5] but by 2006–2007—when the CDO market grew to hundreds of billions of dollars—this changed. CDO collateral became dominated not by loans, but by lower level (BBB or A) tranches recycled from other asset-backed securities, whose assets were usually non-prime mortgages,[6] and are known as a synthetic CDO. These CDOs have been called "the engine that powered the mortgage supply chain" for nonprime mortgages,[7] and are credited with giving lenders greater incentive to make non-prime loans[8] leading up to the 2007-9 subprime mortgage crisis."

If you actually want to learn something, which is doubtful, here's the link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralized_debt_obligation
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 26, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
Countdown to 'haughtily dismissive post without saying anything' from Esco....

10...

9...

8...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 26, 2016 - 02:35pm PT
Winemaker,

More Craig Fry cut and pasting? Still unable to answer my simple question so you go with WOT?

Also, not that it matters to me, you might find this interesting. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/traunch.asp
dirtbag

climber
May 26, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
"Do any Trump supporters care that's he lies to them by the hour?"...


They've got an acute case of early onset Hillary Derangement Syndrome ("HDS").

Some acquired it in the 90s and are suffering from a relapse.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 26, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
Esco, you don't really want an answer, you just want to troll. Anyway, time to head for home and some sweet, sweet (well, dry really) wine.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 26, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
Trump doesn't bother me, he's just a narcissist with a talent for self promotion who saw an opportunity....it's the people who support him who have me worried.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 26, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
Winemaker,

I absolutely want an answer. Are you going on record to say that CDOs are evil and they are what caused the financial crisis? If so, then I will ask again: who in their right mind would give people a loan that they can't pay back and who guaranteed that loan?

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 26, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
I will ask again: who in their right mind would give people a loan that they can't pay back...?

I know a guy in Jersey...

oh but wait, right mind, hmmm...

lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 26, 2016 - 03:52pm PT
Dictator Dump wants to bring back coal “Coal is good for America”, “Coal will make America great again” “Steel mills will be back to make America great” “I love the coal miners” “The coal miners like me” “I will make America great”


Israel former Prime Minister Ehud Barak warns of "seeds of fascism"

26 May 2016

Now, with the expected entry into his right-wing government of ultranationalist Avigdor Lieberman as defense minister, it looks like Netanyahu, in his fourth term as premier, has pulled off another piece of political sleight of hand worthy of a "House of Cards" script.

He added: "Extremist elements are taking over the state of Israel".

"It's already an extremist government and now it will get even more extreme".

Now we have two Nazi’s that will blow the ME as well as the US up.



Norton

Social climber
May 26, 2016 - 04:16pm PT
69. September 16: Trump said Mexico doesn’t have a birthright citizenship policy. It does.

70. September 16: Trump lies that he didn’t want casino gambling in Florida during the GOP debate. Jeb Bush: “The one guy that had some special interest that I know of — that tried to get me my views on something, that was generous and gave me money — was Donald Trump. He wanted casino gambling in Florida." Trump: "Totally false." In the late 1990s, Trump tried to build a multimillion-dollar casino with the Seminole Tribe of Florida, according to CNN.

71. August 25: Trump said at a press conference that under Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker the state is “borrowing to a point that nobody thought possible.” The rate of borrowing has slowed under Walker. It was 5.8 percent over his first four years in office compared with 31 percent over the previous four-year period.

72. August 6, GOP debate: Megyn Kelly: “You’ve called women you don’t like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals. Your Twitter account …” Trump: “Only Rosie O’Donnell.” Not true.

73. July 19, on John McCain: “He's done nothing to help the vets. And I will tell you, they are living in hell." McCain has a long record of supporting veterans' issues in Congress. He was instrumental in a landmark law approved last year to overhaul the scandal-plagued Department of Veterans Affairs. McCain worked with the chairman of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee, independent Bernie Sanders of Vermont, as well as Rep. Jeff Miller, R-Fla., chairman of the House veterans panel, to help win passage of the law, which aims to alleviate long delays veterans faced in getting medical care.

74. July 1: “I write a book called The Art of the Deal, the No. 1 selling business book of all time, at least I think, but I’m pretty sure it is.” Not even close. "Trump is full of B.S.," said Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor of business management at Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business. "The best selling/most important business books would have to be In Search of Excellence by (Thomas) Peters and (Robert) Waterman that started the genre, Built to Last by Jim Collins, The One Minute Manager by Ken Blanchard and The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey."

75. July 1: Trump described an audience of 15,000 people in Phoenix; the city fire department said capacity for the North Ballroom was 4,200 people. The doors were closed at 4,169 attendees, said Phoenix Fire Department spokeswoman Shelly Jamison.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 26, 2016 - 04:48pm PT
You are clueless, ducky.

http://freebeacon.com/politics/mccain-legislation-veterans-health-care-va/
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 26, 2016 - 04:56pm PT
"74. July 1: “I write a book called The Art of the Deal, the No. 1 selling business book of all time, at least I think, but I’m pretty sure it is.” Not even close. "Trump is full of B.S.," said Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor of business management at Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business. "The best selling/most important business books would have to be In Search of Excellence by (Thomas) Peters and (Robert) Waterman that started the genre, Built to Last by Jim Collins, The One Minute Manager by Ken Blanchard and The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey."



Built to Last by Climber Jim Collins.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 26, 2016 - 05:30pm PT
Esco says I absolutely want an answer. Are you going on record to say that CDOs are evil and they are what caused the financial crisis? If so, then I will ask again: who in their right mind would give people a loan that they can't pay back and who guaranteed that loan?

Where did I say CDOs were evil? I simply pointed out the way they were morphed into instruments to sell bad debt. And yes, the way it was done was one of the causes of the financial crisis. The people who would give a loan to some who couldn't pay it back were the bankers who made the loan then immediately sold it by converting it to a CDO with a false AAA credit rating. They got their money and profit out immediately; whoever bought it might be f*#ked, but they really didn't care. The more they churned the more they made. Is that so hard to understand?

I'm sure that's not THE answer you want, so make one up for yourself and be happy. You're just like the Chief, except not quite as much of a serial poster.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 26, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
this whole thing is really f*#king simple. right wingers think big government is bad. but they believe regulating the womb (wtf). they also elect f*#ktards who put into place laws that help big business. what the right wingers dont f*#king get is it is not the government in control, its big business. big business is in charge and your government is the really f*#king dull instrument that guys like trump use to f*#k you. from PAC's, to lobbbyists the deck is stacked against you and your make believe freedoms. f*#k, you aint got no freedom. this country is the most f*#ked up because its people believe they do have freedom. we dont.

at least other countries reallize how f*#ked their situation is. most americans dont f*#king get it.

there, i wasted my time by trying to get a trump supporter to open his f*#king brain, as if there was one there.
Norton

Social climber
May 26, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
good one, Hawkeye
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 26, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
Oh yeah Hawkeye, the left is so much less controlled by the PACs and Big Business. Hahaha
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 26, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
I will ask again.

What on earth would make a loan to someone that can't pay it back worth something?

Why were banks, and notably Countrywide, out there beating the streets looking for any warm corpse to make a home loan to?

All the other sh#t you people are prattling on about: Securitization, Rating Agency Conflicts of Interest, even Fed Monetary policy pales in comparison to the single biggest stone that got things rolling down the hill....the fact that Fannie Mae, in 2005 had a target to provide over 50% of their loan guarantees to sub-prime, low income earning households.

That combined with the CRA requirements being put on banks mandating that they INCREASE loans to low income, sub-prime borrowers who clearly were not in a position to repay them. Of COUSRE you're gonna play that bet off.

What does FannieMae do? They guarantee loans.

Uncle Sam is one hell of a good cosigner!

You can argue that other pieces of legislation intended to give more poor Americans a piece of the American Dream such as lifting the capital gains tax on real estate (but keeping it for others) and the dissolution of the Net Capital Rule allowing investment banks a greater "outlet" for the increased mortgage activity and stimulated competition with Fannie and Freddie.

The wanton abdication of the single commodity the ratings agencies held - TRUST - had broad reaching impacts. And they most certainly should have been put out of business for the evil conflict of interest whores they are, but the system is geared to prop them up and that was not a cause of the market crash, it was a symptom.

Govt Sponsored Entities, given their precarious position of half-government and half-private sector, proved to be an excellent “tool” that Congress could use to drive the ideology of the American Dream and home ownership. Apparently, somewhere along the line they forgot that if you give something a profit motive backed by the safety net of a government guarantee, the artificial market forces that result will eventually reach the breaking point and return to “equilibrium”. And it cost $186 Billion in bailout money to keep Fannie afloat. Which I believe is the single biggest bailout chunk.

But you guys keep going on about the predatory lenders and big banks that f*#ked the poor people. It fits with the rest of your schtick.
Norton

Social climber
May 26, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
wow, just saw it

that was really very dumb, but not that surprising given the history of ignorance
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 26, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/batch-polls-cast-doubt-donald-144417811.html;_ylt=AwrTceOIskdX.K4Ax.UPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByNWU4cGh1BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--



Obama approval rating is over 52 percent, Hillary wins the nomination and both Bernie and Obama hit it hard for Hillary. I'm thinking she wins by 5-7 points in the fall election. Trump loses big in the debates and can't stay focus, the name-calling and degrading just get worse and he goes down the toilet where he belongs.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 26, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
McCain has not done anything for Vets. Why should he, he has the best doctors and care in the world. If he or any of other members of Congress/Senators plus their aides go overseas as when McCain did on his fact/info mission to help the wrong rebels receive arms, gets to take his doctor with him plus he gets to see/talk to him as much as he wants where everyone else either Medicare or VA get 20 minutes.

Why doesn’t both parties say that they will change the VA so it will be exactly the same or modeled after the system they use. Thousands of guys died and another 10 of thousands injured where these clowns did at one time helped but do nothing or served.

As for the Choice card it is a piece of Sh&t. I recall about a month ago when McCain said that we have this access already and it is working. Dumb fu%k, I wanted to write him and say “Hey Clown” Call another VA not yours. Call San Francisco or Palto Alto or some other state, do not use your name but get a vet off the street and give him a couple of bucks to use his name and SS# then say “Hey I need some help”.

Don’t call on a Friday, if you call on Monday you will leave a message on their answer machine which says it be at least two days. First you have to get an OK using Choice that takes another three/four days so that week is gone. They give you somebody other than your choice. It only pays to see the doc 2x, as for tests the answer is no which means [A] drive the 120 miles to the nearest one to you pay them yourself. If you need meds the ones that the VA cannot pay because they are too expensive for their system so you have to pay out of your own pocket. The newer ones can be $100, need 7 patches $700.

When you do call and ask here locally for a doc and then ask you who is your insurance provider Medicare no problem, the VA, Choice card, they hang up. I am serious. Reason it takes 3 to 6 months before any payment is paid. It is in increments so the total is not paid. The Doctors add 20% more to the bill because the VA will offer them less or negotiate to lower price.

The VA uses two Insurance depending how many years you were in service. One is TriCare the other is TriWest both are outsourced to SAIC which are the same shi%theads and people that gave the CIA the info to invade Iraq.

Nothing will be done. One thing is get rid of the current director: The Disneyland Asssho%e who uses the WalMart take or leave system.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 26, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
Because, Esco, for about the thirtieth time, they could sell the f*#king notes and make money. Are you dense? Denial is a river in Egypt.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 26, 2016 - 08:43pm PT
Whinemaker,

Until you answer the question of WHY they could sell them, you can't get to the cause. All you do is whine about sh#t you don't understand but read about on Wikipedia.

Let's play a game.

I just loaned a hood rat from East St Louis $200k for a mortgage on an adjustable rate. He doesn't have a job ('cept for dealing crack which may be profitable but risky).


On the other hand, I just loaned a self-employed, out of work, race relations graduate student working on his thesis living off illicit website money.

But this loan was guaranteed by Fannie Mae and cosigned by Uncle Sam.

Which loan are you going to buy?

Its that simple. Mortgage backed securities were around for a long time before you or anyone else ever even heard the term. Until we started to force businesses to loan money to people that couldn't pay it back AND THEN GIVE THEM AN OUTLET TO OFFLOAD THEM, the system worked just fine.


All the rest of the sh#t people post are symptoms and results of the government f*#king with the system to try and manufacture the American dream for people that can't afford it.

And the support is equally vigorous on both sides of the aisle.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 26, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
"Course he'll blame it on the government rather than greedy bankers."

Don't forget the good-for-nothing UhMerriKin who slimily borrowed beyond their means. They are everywhere in this country, and the primary reason for the big recession.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 26, 2016 - 09:07pm PT
@ Escop. You are deliberately obtuse. They could make money. WTF? Can't you understand this? Yes, you can, but you want to be a troll for some sort of bullshit whatever. Okay, you win; this is my last response on this because the conversation is useless. Get some sleep.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 26, 2016 - 09:16pm PT
"You are deliberately obtuse."

+1


+ 'haughtily dismissive post without saying anything'

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 26, 2016 - 09:32pm PT
Good grief Apogee. Why don't you lick my stomach for a while, I'm tired of having you suck my dick.

EDIT: Was that dismissive enough?
F

climber
away from the ground
May 26, 2016 - 09:42pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho

May 26, 2016 - 09:32pm PT
Good grief Apogee. Why don't you lick my stomach for a while, I'm tired of having you suck my dick.

OMG Girlfriend! How old are you ?

Who are you going to vote for Escopedro?

Cue dismissive post with no answer.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 27, 2016 - 05:01am PT
As I said before, I'm going to vote for the person that promises to reduce the overall size of government and restore individual liberty and freedom to the citizens of the United States.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 27, 2016 - 06:05am PT
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
-Abraham Lincoln

"If Ivanka weren't my daughter, I'd probably be dating her."
-Donald Trump

F

climber
away from the ground
May 27, 2016 - 06:14am PT
Candidate have a name, Escopedro? Or just a figment of your imagination? Waiting for them to drop into the race still? Your mom? Imaginary friend? You can't write in "The candidate that promises FREEDOM!" There has to be a name.

Cue dismissive post with no name.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 27, 2016 - 06:23am PT
restore individual liberty and freedom to the citizens of the United States."

Well, if you're talking about white people, Trump's your man.

If protecting the rights and freedoms of ALL American's is of interest to you, then you'd logically vote for Hillary Clinton.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 27, 2016 - 06:29am PT
Kind of depressing...

re: moral outsourcing

Why We Secretly Want Leaders Who'll Be Unethical On Our Behalf


http://www.fastcompany.com/3060103/why-we-secretly-want-leaders-wholl-be-unethical-on-our-behalf


Related? moral outsourcing / animal farming
Any meat eaters here? ;)
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 27, 2016 - 06:47am PT
Talk to F, he's the animal lover.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
May 27, 2016 - 06:49am PT
Anyone here planning on going to the riot - er, rally today in san diego?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 27, 2016 - 06:49am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
F

climber
away from the ground
May 27, 2016 - 06:51am PT
And, right on cue.... No name, eh? Are you too embarrassed to admit you are going to vote for Trump? Have a Trump sticker taped to your F350 with truck nuts you don't want to admit?
Haha, just another tard in a ten gallon hat with a false sense of superiority brought on by the size of his truck.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 27, 2016 - 06:53am PT
Anyone here planning on going to the riot - er, rally today in san diego?

That was funny, thanks.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 27, 2016 - 07:54am PT
When the evidence is examined, it doesn't seem to support sub-prime lending as the culprit in the foreclosure crisis.

It bears repeating.

If you want to argue about it, try reading the research and poking holes in it if you can, rather than just making IMUO (in my uniformed opinion) statements.


Utilizing new panel micro data on the ownership sequences of all types of borrowers from 1997-2012 leads to a reinterpretation of the U.S. foreclosure crisis as more of a prime, rather than a subprime, borrower issue. Moreover, traditional mortgage default factors associated with the economic cycle, such as negative equity, completely account for the foreclosure propensity of prime borrowers relative to all-cash owners, and for three-quarters of the analogous subprime gap. Housing traits, race, initial income, and speculators did not play a meaningful role, and initial leverage only accounts for a small variation in outcomes of prime and subprime borrowers
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 27, 2016 - 07:55am PT

As I said before, I'm going to vote for the person that promises to reduce the overall size of government and restore individual liberty and freedom to the citizens of the United States.

You forgot to add "as long as I get to keep what the government gives me"
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 27, 2016 - 07:58am PT
Really? The bankers had the freedom to do what they want? I wonder what happens to the bank that doesn't meet their Government Mandated Community Reinvestment quota?

You people don't realize that the very thing you claim to be fighting against is exactly what your methods produce.

You want to stop crony capitalism? Stop the rule of Big Business and Gov in bed together?

You think the answer is more restrictions when in reality its just the opposite.

IF you want your even playing field back, put government on the sidelines to enforce the basic rules and let water find its level.

Keeping playing into their hands, I'm sure it will get better.....this time.
Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 08:00am PT
As I said before, I'm going to vote for the person that promises to reduce the overall size of government and restore individual liberty and freedom to the citizens of the United States.

and here we go AGAIN

Escopeta is crying the righteous wail and key buzz words of "freedom" and "liberty"

and again he emotes that these vital things must be "restored"

yet when I ask the little crying b!tch to name these freedoms and liberties he has lost - he can't

I asked him a week ago to list em and nothing but silence

and now he is crying out again

put up or shut up, and please, get an education
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 27, 2016 - 08:12am PT
"Myth: The Community Reinvestment Act forced banks to make loans to all low-income families and people with poor credit, fining banks that refused to comply.


Fact: The Community Reinvestment Act has encouraged banks to lend fairly and responsibly for over 30 years. The Community Reinvestment Act does not impose fines; it periodically examines FDIC-backed banks and issues them a CRA-compliance rating. [Community Reinvestment Act] To receive a high rating, banks must meet the financing needs of as many members of their community as possible and must not discriminate against racial and ethnic groups or certain neighborhoods. However, a bank cannot receive a high rating unless it is also maintaing “safe and sound banking practices.” [Community Reinvestment Act] In other words, the CRA requires banks to lend to working-class families and people of color, but only when those people have been deemed credit-worthy.

Myth: The housing bubble burst when too many people with home loans mandated by the Community Reinvestment Act failed to make their mortgage payments.


Fact: More than half of problematic sub-prime loans made in the last few years were issued by banks that are not regulated by the CRA. [U.S. House Committee on Financial Services] The CRA applies only to financial institutions that are insured by the FDIC, but not to independent mortgage companies such as Countrywide. In fact, non-CRA lenders were twice as likely as CRA lenders to issue excessively expensive subprime loans to vulnerable creditors. [Federal Reserve Bulletin] Responsible mortgages made by CRA lenders have a low rate of foreclosure similar to that of traditional mortgages. [Federal Reserve]

Myth: In 1995, Bill Clinton changed the Community Reinvestment Act to allow the securitization of CRA and subprime mortgages.


Fact: The 1995 revisions to the CRA changed only the way in which a bank’s CRA compliance is evaluated; they made no mention of mortgage securitization. [60 F.R. 22156] Under the 1995 rules, banks are rewarded only for making mortgages in their communities, not for re-selling mortgages as securities.

Myth: President Bush and Senator McCain tried to stop the subprime mortgage crisis, but Democrats blocked their efforts.


Fact: Bush and McCain supported the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which would have created a new government agency to oversee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and other federal housing programs. However, the bill would have done nothing to stop the rash of subprime lending that preceded the housing bubble because it provided oversight for only Fannie and Freddie, not for the companies that issued subprime mortgages."

https://ourfuture.org/fact_sheet/truth-about-community-reinvestment-act
F

climber
away from the ground
May 27, 2016 - 08:20am PT
Freedom? Benghazi? Derp?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 27, 2016 - 08:25am PT
Good post Bob. Unfortunately some here are able to read the words but not able comprehend the content.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 27, 2016 - 08:34am PT
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” -Carl Sagan
brotherbbock

climber
Alta Loma, CA
May 27, 2016 - 08:39am PT
BB
WRONG

Not until the GOP Officially nominates Trump at the Convention in July will I be proved wrong.

and if wrong then, I will pay my $10 and admit I was WRONG

and until then, I will have fun telling the GOP has picked their fate

Go ahead and paypal me that $10 Craig Fry. You know it's coming. Or you can make me wait till your July 11th date.

brotherbbock@yahoo.com
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 27, 2016 - 08:49am PT
Unfortunately some here are able to read the words but not able comprehend the content.

Aint that the truth. I wonder who would have bought all those sub-prime, no paper, mortgages had they not been guaranteed by FannieMae?

I'm sure they would have been flying off the shelves.

I'm sure regulating it better will work this time.


EDIT: Wipe your mouth Norton, your spittle is on my screen. Poor Poopsie.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 27, 2016 - 09:02am PT
I will repeat:

Apparently, somewhere along the line they forgot that if you give something a profit motive backed by the safety net of a government guarantee, the artificial market forces that result will eventually reach the breaking point and return to “equilibrium”.
Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 09:06am PT

AGAIN

What "individual liberties" and "freedoms" have you lost that you want "restored", Escopeta?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 27, 2016 - 09:12am PT
Escopeta...I'll take a number 2 with a chicken salad and stuff the chicken between your legs...
zBrown

Ice climber
May 27, 2016 - 09:19am PT
Somebody should look at the comparative dollar value of the loans securitized and sold by Wall Street vs Fannie Mae dollar volume.


Apparently, somewhere along the line they forgot that if you give something a profit motive backed by the safety net of a government guarantee, the artificial market forces that result will eventually reach the breaking point and return to “equilibrium”.


As long as we're in the ballpark, Somebody should look up the cost to the United States taxpayer(s) of the Ronald Reagan Administration inspired and instigated S&L crisis.

Total Estimated Resolution Costs
As of December 31, 1999, total direct costs attributable
to the closing of insolvent thrift institutions over
the 1986–1995 period amounted to $145.7 billion.
Indirect costs due to the loss of Treasury revenue
because of the tax benefits that accrued to acquirers of
failed institutions under past FSLIC resolutions
amounted to $6.3 billion.23 An additional $1.0 billion
of indirect costs was incurred because interest expens-
es were higher with the use of REFCORP bonds than
with Treasury financing.24 Thus, the combined total
for all direct and indirect losses of FSLIC and RTC
resolutions was an estimated $152.9 billion. Of this
amount, U.S. taxpayer losses amounted to $123.8 billion,
or 81 percent of the total costs. The thrift industry
losses amounted to $29.1 billion, or 19 percent of
the total.


Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 09:24am PT
In a speech delivered in Bismarck, North Dakota, the now official GOP nominee and billionaire blowhard told the crowd:

“There’s one more thing that we must do to make America wealthy again, and you have to be wealthy in order to be great, I’m sorry to say.”


you have to be wealthy in order to be great, I’m sorry to say.”

yeah, tell that to every US serviceman who died "making America great"
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 27, 2016 - 09:29am PT
Bro Bock
We will have to wait until July 11
Because anything could happen between now and then
suicide, assassination, he drops out, etc...

But I am happy that no one else took my bet, because it looks like I will Lose

I will pay up though, so hit me up the day after the convention

I guess I was WRONG about the Republican Party, they are even stupider than I could ever imagine, allowing Trump to be their nominee

I hope they never find Satan, because he would rise to the top of the Republican Party by wide margins, and they would fight to make sure he wins.
dirtbag

climber
May 27, 2016 - 09:36am PT
It seems to me that the republican split of 2016 is really an ideological split over immigration, taxes, spending on entitlements, trade, and a few other things. I have no idea if these differences are reconcilable: I don't see how, in the long run.

The democrats seem to mostly agree on the major issues: climate change, wage inequality, diversity, etc. Differences within the party are over the degrees to which policies can or should change these things, and who is a better candidate to carry out those changes. These differences are more easily reconciled.
brotherbbock

climber
Alta Loma, CA
May 27, 2016 - 09:39am PT
But I am happy that no one else took my bet, because it looks like I will Lose

I will pay up though, so hit me up the day after the convention

I guess I was WRONG about the Republican Party, they are even stupider than I could ever imagine

LOL True dat!

EDIT: Suicide.....that would be something!!!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 27, 2016 - 09:52am PT
hope they never find Satan, because he would rise to the top of the Republican Party by wide margins, and they would fight to make sure he wins.

If Donald picks Gingrich as VP they'd be close.

Nobody did more to break government and usher in the era of hyper-partisan gridlock in DC than Gingrich. Having him team up with the reality TV guy who brags he can fix everything ("I'll give you the details later") would be beyond ironic.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 27, 2016 - 09:57am PT
I don't see anything the Republicans are trying to sell as being reconciable within their ranks...Less government is code for letting the wealthy run roughshod over the poor...Lower wages means more government assistance for the working class which goes against Republican goals...What the elite in the Republican party want is a 3rd world country where they can throw their garbage and food scraps to the peasants on the outside of their trophy home security walls..
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 27, 2016 - 10:04am PT
Absolutely, because more government has worked out SOOOO well for the poor.

Lol
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 27, 2016 - 10:11am PT
"Absolutely, because more government has worked out SOOOO well for the poor.

Lol"

Dumbass.


http://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security-keeps-22-million-americans-out-of-poverty-a-state-by-state-analysis


Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 10:14am PT

where did Escopeta go?

he has some splaining to do

oh yeah, he and "Madbolter" are giving each other foot messages and crying about the individual liberties they have lost

Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 10:15am PT
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
May 27, 2016 - 10:15am PT
HAHAHAHAHA You have to read the whole thing.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-marche-trump-masculine-overcompensation-20160527-snap-story.html

The most popular candidate among white American men is a parody of American manhood. By now, we have become used to the frat-boy performance that defines Donald Trump’s candidacy: the sexual boasting, the condescending or outright insulting treatment of women, the open discussion about the size of his penis. As we approach the general election, it becomes ever more clear that Trump’s flagrant and empty machismo is not a distraction from his campaign but its substance.

...When I look at Trump, I see a desperate attempt to recover from failed manhood. His hair alone is an icon of vapid masculine braggadocio. And the more closely I examine Trump’s masculinity, the more hollow it appears. I know it’s a small point, but several men have brought up to me how strange it is that Trump does not seem to know how to wear a tie. He uses an old-fashioned Windsor knot, and its tip always hangs about 4 inches below his belt.
dirtbag

climber
May 27, 2016 - 10:24am PT
Donal Trump running for President is prophetic. G-d has a plan.


Thanks for the laugh! :-)
dirtbag

climber
May 27, 2016 - 10:47am PT
Hillary is part of Satans plan.

That's why I support her.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 27, 2016 - 11:41am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
May 27, 2016 - 11:42am PT
If this debate between Sanders and Trump takes place it's probably going to sideline HRC and perhaps diminish her standing considerably. Arguably a very smart, strategic move on the parts of these antagonists.

Sanders is certainly the thorn in Hillary's side.
Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
73. July 19, on John McCain: “He's done nothing to help the vets. And I will tell you, they are living in hell." McCain has a long record of supporting veterans' issues in Congress. He was instrumental in a landmark law approved last year to overhaul the scandal-plagued Department of Veterans Affairs. McCain worked with the chairman of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee, independent Bernie Sanders of Vermont, as well as Rep. Jeff Miller, R-Fla., chairman of the House veterans panel, to help win passage of the law, which aims to alleviate long delays veterans faced in getting medical care.

74. July 1: “I write a book called The Art of the Deal, the No. 1 selling business book of all time, at least I think, but I’m pretty sure it is.” Not even close. "Trump is full of B.S.," said Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor of business management at Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business. "The best selling/most important business books would have to be In Search of Excellence by (Thomas) Peters and (Robert) Waterman that started the genre, Built to Last by Jim Collins, The One Minute Manager by Ken Blanchard and The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey."

75. July 1: Trump described an audience of 15,000 people in Phoenix; the city fire department said capacity for the North Ballroom was 4,200 people. The doors were closed at 4,169 attendees, said Phoenix Fire Department spokeswoman Shelly Jamison.

76. Mid-July: Trump’s campaign says he’s worth $10 billion; Forbes, which has been tracking his finances for more than 30 years, estimates that his net worth is closer to $4.1 billion, less than half of Trump's figure.

77. June 15 announcement speech: "The last quarter, it was just announced, our gross domestic product … was below zero. Who ever heard of this? It's never below zero.” That is ridiculous, as shown clearly here.

78. June 15, on ISIS: “They've become rich. I'm in competition with them. They just built a hotel in Syria. Can you believe this? They built a hotel." Nope. ISIS took over a hotel.

79. June 15: Trump: “Even our nuclear arsenal doesn't work.” "Over and over, the nuclear weapons laboratories, the Air Force, the Navy, and the Secretary of Defense have certified that the nuclear arsenal does work," said Matthew Bunn, a nuclear specialist at the Harvard Kennedy School.

80. Trump boasted to Larry King that he got paid $1 million for a speech. King: “For the Learning Annex.” Trump: “Yes, that's true. It's actually more than that.” Nope. $400,000.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 27, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
Sanders has a better chance beating Trump than Hillary does in the general election. I think you guys really underestimate how many people don't like Hillary
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 27, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
Kind of agree with Locker. Sanders brought out some good ideas and changed the narrative in a positive way but it seems to have gone to his head. Kind of reminds me of Nader when his ego got in the way. Time for Sanders to get on board rather than becoming an asset for Trump.
dirtbag

climber
May 27, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
What locker and donini say. I'm finding sanders and many of his holier than thou supporters increasingly annoying. I would not vote for trump over sanders but I would vote for sanders wth far less enthusiasm than Hillary.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 27, 2016 - 12:24pm PT
Trump and Bernie have a lot in common besides huge egos: neither want you to see their tax returns. Bernie did release one year, reluctantly. What are the hiding? Hillary has released 8 years.

Bernie is 1,000x better than Trump, of course. But he's also the candidate the GOP wants to run against. He hasn't been vetted. If he were the nominee the attacks on his tax increases and socialist views would be nonstop. They'd have him looking like Stalin by Nov.
Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
Sanders has a better chance beating Trump than Hillary does in the general election. I think you guys really underestimate how many people don't like Hillary


respectfully disagree

ZERO dollars have been spent "vetting" Bernie, by either Hillary OR the Republicans

makes good sense as everyone knows he would not become the Dem nominee

so Bernie has been getting a free ride all along, and now he is a bitter and angry old man

go ahead, read Bernie's wikipedia page

read all about his "Marxist" affiliations and extreme organizations he belonged to

he has never been a Democrat until just now when he registered as one to run

The Republicans would unload 700 million dollars in very negative and harsh advertising on him labeling him as not only a "Socialist" (read Hitler( but a Communist

no, Bernie has had his moment in the spotlight, he now needs to quietly fade into history and shut his mouth slamming Hillary Clinton

he also needs to do what he promised - tell all his supporters to back Hillary and make sure the Reality TV Star never become Commander in Chief
zBrown

Ice climber
May 27, 2016 - 01:23pm PT


I'm posting this because G**D acting thru "DT" Trump told me to. He knows whereof he speaketh.

Delfina and Maria de Jesus Gonzalez Valenzuela. Thank @G**D they will not be moving in down the street from me.

From the 1950s until the mid-1960s, the sisters ran "Rancho El Ángel"', the locus of their largescale prostitution ring and the site of at least ninety-one murders.


Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 27, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
This isn't on Youtube, so no video link, but it's well worth watching. Especially you, Klimmer.

https://amp.twimg.com/v/533e3e01-9a8b-4175-b95e-c826a4d68882
Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
dirtbag

climber
May 27, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
83. Trump lies about his debt level; as National Review has pointed out: “Was Trump actually $9 billion in debt in the 1990s, as he said in two of his books? No. The New York Times reported that Trump later declared the claim a “mistake”: “I don’t know how it got there.”


84. Trump lied about how he avoided the draft for Vietnam, claiming he got a high draft number. Not only did he get four deferments in college, but draft numbers were not even used until December, 1969, a full year after he received his final deferment, a medical one in September 1968. Trump’s campaign later claimed he couldn’t go because of bone spurs.
dirtbag

climber
May 27, 2016 - 02:20pm PT
Trump doing G-d's work:







































































































lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 27, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
If Trump is chosen by god to stop America’s destruction wouldn’t it make more sense that god chose him to stop all the worlds destruction instead?

Like your photo Klimmer especially the weapon “Onward Christians soldiers”

Trump said in one of his speeches yesterday and as usual gets off the subject talks about Hillary and about the wall, you know the one he is going to build and “who’s going to pay for it…………….?. He then said maybe when it’s done they will call it the Trump Wall but if not that is ok. He turns his head and smiles then says he rather have a statue of him built in his honor.

I like this one but I am sure someone will have better image or idea to be built maybe with him on top of a white horse.

d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
May 27, 2016 - 02:50pm PT
Fuk your stoopid god klimmer.

And its followers too.

Destroyers of that
which is good.

Wanna meet up,
I'll tell it
to you right
in your face,
coward.

Anonymous troll, you.

If trump, gawd and
the arc on the moon
is all you got,
then sad.

Post up some substance, goon.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 27, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
Slightly OT but the possibility for real change. Sign the petition on change.org to make Colorado great again!
www.change.org/p/gov-john-hickenlooper-stop-transplants-for-moving-to-colorado

I am not opposed to building a wall on the Kansas and Utah borders(including Moab of course, its pretty much part of Colorado anyways). We will definitely let tourists in, but if a VW bus has lots of luggage and smells like incense, sorry you got to go around.

Together lets make Colorado Great Again!!!
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 27, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
Trump was the one who stared the "debate Bernie" gag and when Bernie said he'd go for it, now Trump "isn't interested."

I am certainly glad that the debate won't occur, because I think Trump would be as he has shown himself to be - a vicious and horrible man who won't shut his yap while the other person is taking
their turn to speak.

I agree that Bernie is stuck in his own head with anger at this point. I just hope that when it is all said and done he finds a way to be part of a cohesive front and doesn't stay stuck in outrage. He has the potential to do a lot of damage. However, it does seem to me that he has stopped with anti-Hillary rhetoric, and is more focused on wanting to allow those people who haven't voted in the primary to have their chance. I can't say that is a bad thing. If anything, it shows that the man believes in fairness.

As for Klimmer's remarks about how the ST forum is "as bad as Trump," that is a generalization. While for sure there are some truly bigoted and misogynist people on this site, it's far from the majority. And one other small point - none of those creepsters are running for a public office in which they would be representing the rest of us to the world.

But really - do you guys(who are doing so) HAVE to be mean to Klimmer and make such nasty remarks? Would it be so difficult to simply let his posts slide, if you haven't got anything but vileness to spew in response?

Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 03:55pm PT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 27, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
I'm glad I'm not planning to run for office.

1. Bad belayer-check
2. Takes an extra swig off the water bottle-check
3. Doesn't go far enough from the bivy-check
4. Doesn't bring enough gear-check
5. Brings too much gear-check
6. Treats the avalanche poodle as expendable-check
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 27, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
I'm posting this message to encourage all believers in Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus The Messiah) to be encouraged and don't give up. Keep praying for our Nation. G-d is at work and he hears the prayers of all the saints all these many worrisome years. Be encouraged. Be brave.



Whoa, you've gone batshit crazy...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 27, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
Hey, Californian's, Trump declares there is no drought! Turns out the environmentalists made it up, along with global warming. Get out the hose and wash down that sidewalk.

You can't make this bs up. All I can say is some otherwise intelligent people have taken leave of their senses by voicing support for this simple-minded clown.
Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
May 27, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
Trumpty Dumpty summits the Great Wall de Baja. Eggshells incoming.





Rubio (lil' cabron) endorses Trump (cabron grande)

Chinga tu madre, puto.
-John Boner


pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 27, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 05:59pm PT

so pyro

are you ashamed of supporting Trump and your bumper sticker?

embarrassed yet?

can you think of anyone less "qualified" to be President than a Reality TV Star?

what do you think this says about your own intellect?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 27, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
The nuclear weapons were in Cuba and Castro was lobbying for using them.

Listen carefully to what Trump says.


Previously declassified U.S. documents published by the National Security Archive show that U.S. intelligence did not detect any of the nuclear warheads in Cuba during the crisis — either for the strategic missiles or for the tactical delivery systems — and close examination of U.S. overhead photography by author Michael Dobbs established that U.S. intelligence never located the actual storage bunkers for the warheads. U.S. planners assumed the missile warheads were present in Cuba, but discounted the possibility — even after seeing the dual-capable Luna/Frog in reconnaissance photographs as early as October 25 — that tactical warheads were on the island or might ever be used. U.S. analysts completely mistook the FKR cruise missiles for the conventionally-armed Sopka coastal defense missiles, and never understood the likelihood that the U.S. base at Guantanamo would be [a] smoking radiating ruin from an FKR nuclear warhead if the U.S. invaded. Thus the shock to former officials such as Robert McNamara when they heard from Soviet veterans during the historic 1992 Cuban Missile Crisis conference in Havana that tactical nuclear weapons had been part of the operation from the beginning

Washington, DC, December 11, 2013 – The last Soviet nuclear warheads in Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis did not leave the island until December 1, 1962, according to Soviet military documents published today for the first time in English by the National Security Archive at George Washington University (www.nsarchive.org).

At 9 o'clock in the morning on December 1, 1962, the large Soviet cargo ship Arkhangelsk quietly left the Cuban port of Mariel and headed east across the Atlantic to its home port of Severomorsk near Murmansk. This inconspicuous departure in fact signified the end of the most dangerous crisis of the Cold War. What was called "the Beloborodov cargo" in the Soviet top secret cables — the nuclear warheads that the Soviet armed forces had deployed in Cuba in October 1962 — was shipped back to the Soviet Union on Arkhangelsk.

According to the documents, Soviet nuclear warheads stayed on the Cuban territory for 59 days — from the arrival of the ship Indigirka on October 4 to the departure of Arkhangelsk on December 1. U.S. intelligence at the time had no idea about the nature of the Arkhangelsk cargo. Arkhangelsk carried 80 warheads for the land-based cruise missile FKR-1, 12 warheads for the dual-use Luna (Frog) launcher, and 6 nuclear bombs for IL-28 bombers — in total, 98 tactical nuclear warheads. Four other nuclear warheads, for torpedoes on the Foxtrot submarines, had already returned to the Soviet Union, as well as 24 warheads for the R-14 missiles, which arrived in Cuba on October 25 on the ship Aleksandrovsk, but were never unloaded. The available evidence suggests that the 36 warheads for the R-12 missiles that came to Cuba on the Indigirka also left on Aleksandrovsk, being loaded at Mariel between October 30 and November 3.


Brief chronology of Soviet tactical nuclear weapons in Cuba:

May 24, 1962 -original plan for Operation Anadyr included deployment of 80 FKR cruise missiles with nuclear warheads.
June 10-Operation Anadyr approved by the Soviet Presidium.
September 7-the "Pitsunda decision." Khrushchev augmented the original plan by adding 6 nuclear bombs for IL-28 bombers and 12 short-range nuclear missiles for the dual-use system Luna/Frog.
October 4-Indigirka arrived in Mariel with 36 warheads for R-12, 36 warheads for FKR, 12 warheads for Lunas, and 6 nuclear bombs for Il-28s.
October 22-Presidium discussed the possibility of using tactical nuclear weapons in the event of an American invasion of Cuba.
October 23-Aleksandrovsk arrived in La Isabella with 24 warheads for R-14 and 44 warheads for FKRs.
October 26-28-Aleksandrovsk "partially" unloaded-warheads for FKRs were unloaded and sent to units.
October 30-Aleksandrovsk ordered back to Severomorsk still carrying the 24 warheads for R-14s, after probably loading the 36 R-12 warheads at Mariel harbor and departing November 3.[2]
November 2-Anastas Mikoyan arrived in Cuba as Khrushchev's special envoy.
November 8-Mikoyan suggested transferring "all remaining weapons" to the Cubans after special training.
Nov 12-Khrushchev decided to remove the IL-28 bombers.
November 22-Mikoyan informed the Cuban leadership that all nuclear weapons would be removed from Cuba.[3]
December 1-all tactical nuclear warheads left Cuba on Arkhangelsk.
December 20-Arkhangelsk arrived in Severomorsk.
Norton

Social climber
May 27, 2016 - 06:11pm PT
Donald Trump in Billings:

“I want a statue in Washington, D.C. Maybe share it with Jefferson or somebody.”
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 27, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Are those Bernie stickers on that one chicks ta-ta's?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 27, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
Listen carefully to what Trump says.

Tall order, but OK.
What did he say?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 27, 2016 - 06:24pm PT
Listen carefully to what Trump says and think about it.


Scale it back to what he says about nuclear weapons.

Imagine Trump in the White House in 1962 rather than Kennedy (who had to over-ride the advice of his own advisors).

Now imagine life, such as it is, either dead or with radiation sickness.


Trump told the New York Times, “If Japan had that nuclear threat, I’m not sure that would be a bad thing for us.” Nor would it be so bad, he’s said, if South Korea and Saudi Arabia had nuclear weapons, too.


Trump also implied that South Korea and Japan would inexorably seek nuclear weapons — regardless of what the United States does — because so many countries have already gone nuclear. As he said to Anderson Cooper: “It’s only a question of time. … You have so many [nuclear] countries already.”


Although history suggests that proliferation is not inevitable, recent research on nonproliferation suggests that Trump’s proposed foreign policy might make it so.

Trump says he would scale back or entirely end U.S. alliance commitments unless our allies made major financial concessions. In his interview with the Times, Trump said that the United States “take[s] tremendous monetary hits on protecting countries” such as Japan, South Korea, Germany and Saudi Arabia. He also denounced the U.S.-Japan Mutual Security Treaty as “one-sided,” said that the United States doesn’t need to maintain forces in South Korea and described the North Atlantic Treaty Organization as “obsolete.”

Nuclear allies can also become security risks. Vipin Narang demonstrates that when weaker states gain nuclear weapons, they often seek to coerce their senior partners into intervening on their behalf by threatening to use nuclear weapons. That’s what Israel did at the height of the 1973 Arab-Israeli War. That’s what South Africa did during its 1988 confrontation with Cuban forces in Angola. And that’s what Pakistan did in the midst of its 1990 military crisis with India.


Yours for a nuclear world.
-Edward Teller


nature

climber
Boulder, CO
May 27, 2016 - 07:05pm PT
There is no drought in California. How much more idiotic sh#t can come from this egomaniacs mouth? Moreover how many idiots will continue to believe this d#@&%e?

Seriously - the dog caught the car and now what?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 27, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
Thought long enough, getting the picture?




rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 27, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
Escopeta... Bernie on the Ta Tas...? I'll have to look closer...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 27, 2016 - 08:37pm PT

You retards are insane ......

On our planet, Earth, that expression is a contemptuous term used to refer to a person who is cognitively impaired.

People using it here are generally considered stupid or obtuse. Just a heads up from a local wanting to see our inner planetary guests develop proper language skills.
dirtbag

climber
May 27, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
Trump says there is no drought in Cslifornia

Know-nothing fooking idiot.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 27, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
Jesus F*#king Christ Braun, WTF? Man, I vowed never to respond to any of your posts but.........damn. Okay, I'm ready for the 'response'. Seriously, laughing out loud.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 27, 2016 - 08:48pm PT

CONFIRMED

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 27, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
No draught in California..? Donald's writers are comedy geniuses.. Too F'ing funny...Feel the bern..!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 27, 2016 - 09:06pm PT
You retards are insane ......


I smell what you're cookin'
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 27, 2016 - 09:55pm PT
There IS NO drought in California by pure proof of these raining retards in this thread flooding the state ....

That's an amazing sentence.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 28, 2016 - 06:22am PT
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-how-fascism-comes-to-america/2016/05/17/c4e32c58-1c47-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html

Republican politicians marvel at how he has “tapped into” a hitherto unknown swath of the voting public. But what he has tapped into is what the founders most feared when they established the democratic republic: the popular passions unleashed, the “mobocracy.” Conservatives have been warning for decades about government suffocating liberty. But here is the other threat to liberty that Alexis de Tocqueville and the ancient philosophers warned about: that the people in a democracy, excited, angry and unconstrained, might run roughshod over even the institutions created to preserve their freedoms. As Alexander Hamilton watched the French Revolution unfold, he feared in America what he saw play out in France — that the unleashing of popular passions would lead not to greater democracy but to the arrival of a tyrant, riding to power on the shoulders of the people.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 28, 2016 - 06:24am PT
This Trump phenomenon has arisen in other democratic and quasi-democratic countries over the past century, and it has generally been called “fascism.” Fascist movements, too, had no coherent ideology, no clear set of prescriptions for what ailed society. “National socialism” was a bundle of contradictions, united chiefly by what, and who, it opposed; fascism in Italy was anti-liberal, anti-democratic, anti-Marxist, anti-capitalist and anti-clerical. Successful fascism was not about policies but about the strongman, the leader (Il Duce, Der Fuhrer), in whom could be entrusted the fate of the nation. Whatever the problem, he could fix it. Whatever the threat, internal or external, he could vanquish it, and it was unnecessary for him to explain how. Today, there is Putinism, which also has nothing to do with belief or policy but is about the tough man who singlehandedly defends his people against all threats, foreign and domestic.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 28, 2016 - 06:36am PT
In such an environment, every political figure confronts a stark choice: Get right with the leader and his mass following or get run over. The human race in such circumstances breaks down into predictable categories — and democratic politicians are the most predictable. There are those whose ambition leads them to jump on the bandwagon. They praise the leader’s incoherent speeches as the beginning of wisdom, hoping he will reward them with a plum post in the new order. There are those who merely hope to survive. Their consciences won’t let them curry favor so shamelessly, so they mumble their pledges of support, like the victims in Stalin’s show trials, perhaps not realizing that the leader and his followers will get them in the end anyway.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 28, 2016 - 06:41am PT
In my own words
you have to be a moronic retard to not do everything you can do to stop Trump

and stop the Republican Congress
and to put in liberal SCOTUS judges

That means you have to vote against Trump, and the Republicans running for Congress, state and local

Vote Blue no matter who

tell your friends to vote Blue






Who would dare to oppose him ? Certainly not a Republican Party that lay down before him even when he was comparatively weak. And is a man like Trump, with infinitely greater power in his hands, likely to become more humble, more judicious, more generous, less vengeful than he is today, than he has been his whole life? Does vast power un-corrupt?

This is how fascism comes to America, not with jackboots and salutes (although there have been salutes, and a whiff of violence) but with a television huckster, a phony billionaire, a textbook egomaniac “tapping into” popular resentments and insecurities, and with an entire national political party — out of ambition or blind party loyalty, or simply out of fear — falling into line behind him.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 28, 2016 - 07:00am PT
I'm loving Craig Fry's attempt to not cut and paste a wall of text. So he just pastes brick by brick and hopes no one notices.

Lol

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 28, 2016 - 07:05am PT
It's pretty easy to get his well-reasoned message: anyone (on this planet) who votes for Trump should have his or her head examined.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
May 28, 2016 - 07:08am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 28, 2016 - 07:32am PT
Hey Corniss, you a Trump supporter?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 28, 2016 - 09:32am PT
Like Trump , Bush was a fascist..." You're either with us or against us "...Bush rallied support for the Iraq invasion based on false intelligence and lies...Bush kept the message simple just as Trump is doing...Keeping it simple appeals to voters who are too lazy to think for themselves and base who they vote for on knee jerk issues like bathroom gender lawsuits or the right to own rocket launchers...Voters are fickle and forget how f*#ked up Bush left our country...Wounded Warrior is a good example of the private sector picking up the broken pieces of one of Bush's failed policies...
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 28, 2016 - 09:37am PT
Trump rails about conditions at the VA hospitals, yet he wants to maintain the status quo by getting us in more wars.
Norton

Social climber
May 28, 2016 - 10:52am PT

remember months ago when Trump skipped the debate and held his own "Veterans Benefit"?

Bragged he raised 6 million dollars to help our vets?

WELL it turns out that he lied, only 4.5 million was raised

AND he personally pledged one million dollars months ago

But did NOT contribute one dime

Until just this week when a persistent journalist looked into it and called Trump and demanded he put up his money

more time went by then finally Trump figured he couldn't get out of his pledge and paid up

what an ass, but then what do you think Trump really thinks of "serving the country"?

August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
May 28, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
Well it is possible that Trump is right that there is no drought in CA. Our current rain pattern the last 6 years or so may be the new normal...
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 28, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
Like Trump , Bush was a fascist
Really?? Seems like you are using the term a little loosely. Do you suffer from the narcissistic perspective that anyone with different perspectives or ideas must be fascist? Bush along wit h all the recent presidents are certainly a lot of things, but fascists?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 28, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
Yeah..I said Facist...Don't over think it...
Norton

Social climber
May 28, 2016 - 02:11pm PT

Simple Definition of fascism

: a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government

--------------------------------------


well, Fascism by that definition would seem the extreme end of a definition of Bush's actions and words as President

however a case could be made, especially considering his many attempts to divide Americans into "you are either with us (my government) or against us" - remember that one?

either support my invasion of iraq or you are not an American, you are "against us"

pretty damn dictatorial
zBrown

Ice climber
May 28, 2016 - 03:31pm PT
Well by that definition I don't recognize any U.S. President as a fascist.

So? Don't call 'em that. Just describing what they did/did not do should be sufficient, eh?

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 28, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
zB, don't try to inject reletavism, let alone rationality, into this 'debate'.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 28, 2016 - 06:17pm PT

BBC: Bush's Grandfather Planned Fascist Coup In America



Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, July 24, 2007


A BBC Radio 4 investigation sheds new light on a major subject that has received little historical attention, the conspiracy on behalf of a group of influential powerbrokers, led by Prescott Bush, to overthrow FDR and implement a fascist dictatorship in the U.S. based around the ideology of Mussolini and Hitler.

In 1933, Marine Corps Maj.-Gen. Smedley Butler was approached by a wealthy and secretive group of industrialists and bankers, including Prescott Bush the current President's grandfather, who asked him to command a 500,000 strong rogue army of veterans that would help stage a coup to topple then President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

According to the BBC, the plotters intended to impose a fascist takeover and "Adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great depression."
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2007/240707fascistcoup.htm
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 28, 2016 - 06:24pm PT
Interesting... Facism must be a gentic thing with the Bushy's...?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 28, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
Pretty fuk'n cool Trump video..................

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 28, 2016 - 06:37pm PT
The upside down world of republicans...http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/05/trumps-lies-and-authoritarianism-are-the-same.html


https://www.quora.com/Which-US-presidential-candidate-in-2016-elections-is-the-most-honest
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 28, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
Where to start with this nonsense....California will certainly put Hillary over the top, since Bernie probably need to win 70% of the vote. So happy I can contribute to the next President securing the nomination.

Hillary won't get win the election with white men, obviously. Sexism is too instilled in their DNA, unfortunately. She'll win it with enough rational white men, women and minorities.

Trump will lose and be just a stain in American history.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 28, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
No drought...really.

http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/Home/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx?CA
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 28, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
Klimmer, really, get a brain. See video above for elucidation.

Edit: I'm dying here. Klimmer, thanks for existing. You make my day.

Edit 2: Trump is going to 'save' us????? Hahahaha. Really, you're a gem.

Edit 3: Klimmer, if you say 'I don't get it' I understand.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 28, 2016 - 06:49pm PT
Interesting... Facism must be a gentic thing with the Bushy's...?

Well, Herbert Walker, Prescott Bush and W. Averal Hariman were the main Hitler financiers... Even into 1942 until they were siezed under the trading with the enemies act by the Feds.

http://www.georgewalkerbush.net/bushfamilyfundedhitler.htm
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 28, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
Can any Trump supporter say he's not a fascist?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 28, 2016 - 06:58pm PT
So true locker, so true. She can be pretty mysterious.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 28, 2016 - 07:02pm PT
Reilly posted
zB, don't try to inject reletavism, let alone rationality, into this 'debate'.

It's an election where one party has nominated a reality television star with highly questionable business acumen who for most of his life held completely opposite views from them and won based on his ability to incite resentment and hatred for religious/racial minorities...


...but you're right a debate over the definition of fascism is unreasonable.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 28, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
Rise of Donald Trump Tracks Growing Debate Over Global Fascism

WASHINGTON — The comparison was inflammatory, to say the least. Former Gov. William F. Weld of Massachusetts equated Donald J. Trump’s immigration plan with Kristallnacht, the night of horror in 1938 when rampaging Nazis smashed Jewish homes and businesses in Germany and killed scores of Jews.

But if it was a provocative analogy, it was not a lonely one. Mr. Trump’s campaign has engendered impassioned debate about the nature of his appeal and warnings from critics on the left and the right about the potential rise of fascism in the United States. More strident opponents have likened Mr. Trump to Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini.

To supporters, such comparisons are deeply unfair smear tactics used to tar conservatives and scare voters. For a bipartisan establishment whose foundation has been shaken by Mr. Trump’s ascendance, these backers say, it is easier to delegitimize his support than to acknowledge widespread popular anger at the failure of both parties to confront the nation’s challenges.

But the discussion comes as questions are surfacing around the globe about a revival of fascism, generally defined as a governmental system that asserts complete power and emphasizes aggressive nationalism and often racism. In places like Russia and Turkey, leaders like Vladimir V. Putin and Recep Tayyip Erdogan employ strongman tactics. In Austria, a nationalist candidate came within three-tenths of a percentage point of becoming the first far-right head of state elected in Europe since World War II.

In Hungary, an authoritarian government has clamped down on the news media and erected razor wire fences to keep out migrants. There are worries that Poland may follow suit. Traditional parties in France, Germany, Greece and elsewhere have been challenged by nationalist movements amid an economic crisis and waves of migrants. In Israel, fascism analogies by a former prime minister and a top general have again inflamed the long-running debate about the occupation of Palestinian territories.

“The crash of 2008 showed how globalization creates losers as well as winners,” said Mark Leonard, the director of the European Council on Foreign Relations. “In many countries, middle-class wages are stagnant and politics has become a battle over a shrinking pie. Populists have replaced contests between left and right with a struggle between cosmopolitan elites and angry nativists.”

That dislocation may not lead to a repeat of Europe in the 1930s, but it has fueled a debate about global political trends. There is a tendency at times to try to fit current movements into understandable constructs — some refer to terrorist groups in the Middle East as Islamofascists — but scholars say there is a spectrum that includes right-wing nationalism, illiberal democracy and populist autocracy.

“On a world level, the situation that affects many countries is economic stagnation and the arrival of immigrants,” said Robert O. Paxton, a professor emeritus at Columbia University and one of the most prominent scholars of fascism. “That’s a one-two punch that democratic governments are having enormous trouble in meeting.”

Mr. Trump dismisses the labels used by those like Mr. Weld, a longtime Republican now mounting a quixotic campaign for vice president as a Libertarian. “I don’t talk about his alcoholism,” Mr. Trump said through a spokeswoman, “so why would he talk about my foolishly perceived fascism? There is nobody less of a fascist than Donald Trump.” (Mr. Weld, who in the 1990s reportedly appeared in public a few times having had too much to drink, declined to respond: “I’ll let that ride.”)

Americans are used to the idea that other countries may be vulnerable to such movements, but while figures like Father Charles Coughlin, the demagogic radio broadcaster, enjoyed wide followings in the 1930s, neither major party has ever nominated anyone quite like Mr. Trump.

(article continues)
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 28, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
Klimmer, get a clue, the guy is totally in this for himself. He doesn't give a sh*t about you or America. I mean, really, just watch him. He just makes sh*t up and then changes his story. He was for abortion then he wasn't, etc. etc. But really, I guess the bottom line is you believe.

I actually read the entire 'Massive Ark on the Moon', all 3500 or so posts, and I was truly amazed by your ability to serial post at 3:00 am in the morning, at school, whenever. You are on the same path here, with you necessity to believe ..... something. Is your life so lacking that you have to fill it with this sort of stuff? More's the pity.

Edit: I'm being serious here, not mocking you or anything. I really don't understand your need for external affirmation. Why do you need others to define what you are? Your constant necessity to be part of a group, to have your decisions made by others, whether it be Trump or religion or whatever is alien to me. I don't understand why you need others to tell you how to act. Can you explain that to me?
divad

Trad climber
wmass
May 28, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
Klimmer,

Your belief in god and support of Trump have one thing in common, blind faith.

Good luck with both of those.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 28, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
Klimmer is the monosodium glutamate of SuperTopo politards.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 28, 2016 - 08:00pm PT
Reilly....I think you meant the gluteus maximus...?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 28, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
No Braun, just curious, as his brain thing is so alien to mine. One hopes to save souls in his predicament, but soul saving is for the religious, so that counts me out. Honestly, I don't understand how a supposedly rational person, a science teacher, can take the positions Klimmer does. No offense to Klimmer, but he is an interesting case. Maybe we're all doomed. I hope not, for my child and me.

Edit: I'm and older person and I remember the bullshit 'duck and cover' stuff that went on BITD. My father built a fallout shelter in our backyard and sent us back to New Zealand during the Cuban missile crisis. I remember the constant fear we lived under that, without warning, atomic bombs would be falling on us. I lived in Seattle at that time, and there is still evidence of the Bomarc anti-aircraft sites that dotted the terrain. It was a brutal and scary and I have no wish to revisit those times. You who are young have no recollection of what it was like to live under constant and real threat that a 5 megaton hydrogen bomb might, without any warning, destroy your family, your life, your country, the world. So, for all of you complacent people who never have lived like this, seriously think about what Trump is and how incurious is his "intellect'.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 28, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
OK Klimmer
answer this one question

what will be the good things you can say that Trump will make happen?

Make a list, like the wall, jobs, economy...

We doubters haven't heard about the good things, if someone can tell us what they are, then we might see where you're coming from.


besides prophecy, in your own words, what's going happen
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 28, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
That wasn't a list that you wrote, it was a cut and paste

just give us 8, or 10 in your own words

SCOTUS judges??

what are his selling points?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 28, 2016 - 08:16pm PT
Klimmer...Beware of false phrophets and ducks that don't quack...
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 28, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
And also remember that you can judge a witch by whether she is heavier than a duck. Is this the science you teach? Seems like what you believe.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 28, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
Haha that's perfect. Prophecy can really be the only explanation for Trump.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 28, 2016 - 08:45pm PT
And while we're on the subject, Klimmer, maybe you should watch this:

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Then watch 'The Meaning of Life'.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 28, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
So nothing concrete
just prophecy will be fulfilled
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
May 28, 2016 - 09:00pm PT
Surely God could do better than Donald Drumpf. Maybe another talking donkey or the like.
dirtbag

climber
May 28, 2016 - 09:06pm PT
Klimmer when Donald says "Drink the Kool Aid," please don't.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 28, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
Americans would not elect a duck or a chicken.

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 28, 2016 - 09:35pm PT

1) Build our Military again to make it the strongest in the world

Why? it already is.

4) Strengthen our commitment to Israel and keep her safe

F*#k Israel
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 29, 2016 - 01:53am PT

1) Build our Military again to make it the strongest in the World.
The USA military is larger than the next 10 countries combined.

Seven of those are NATO: ( UK, Germany, France, ) and Japan, S. Korea, and Israel. Turkey is also a NATO country.

http://www.businessinsider.com/11-most-powerful-militaries-in-the-world-2014-4

Russia, China, and India round out the top 11.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
May 29, 2016 - 05:25am PT
Admit it; that clip is an unaired SNL sketch, right? Good times, good times 😀. Wanna try my Schwetti Balls?



what scares me is that there are more than a few of these crazed fundies out there that support & share their delusions and are so ready to stampede over the cliff when some loon dreams up a "prophecy" & stamps it with "god told me directly"

What part of "separation of church & state" don't these bible thumpers understand?

Aaaaaaugh!
dirtbag

climber
May 29, 2016 - 05:43am PT
Ever heard of propaganda, Klimmer?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 29, 2016 - 05:56am PT
klimmer posted
A year ago DJT wasn't on anyone's radar. No one concerned themselves with Donald Trump running for President.

Yeah, Trump was keeping a real low profile.


So it turns out many Trump supporters have some problems with Jews:

THE first tweet arrived as cryptic code, a signal to the army of the “alt-right” that I barely knew existed: “Hello ((Weisman)).” @CyberTrump was responding to my recent tweet of an essay by Robert Kagan on the emergence of fascism in the United States.

“Care to explain?” I answered, intuiting that my last name in brackets denoted my Jewish faith.

“What, ho, the vaunted Ashkenazi intelligence, hahaha!” CyberTrump came back. “It’s a dog whistle, fool. Belling the cat for my fellow goyim.” With the cat belled, the horde was unleashed.

The anti-Semitic hate, much of it from self-identified Donald J. Trump supporters, hasn’t stopped since. Trump God Emperor sent me the Nazi iconography of the shiftless, hooknosed Jew. I was served an image of the gates of Auschwitz, the famous words “Arbeit Macht Frei” replaced without irony with “Machen Amerika Great.” Holocaust taunts, like a path of dollar bills leading into an oven, were followed by Holocaust denial. The Jew as leftist puppet master from @DonaldTrumpLA was joined by the Jew as conservative fifth columnist, orchestrating war for Israel. That one came from someone who tagged himself a proud future member of the Trump Deportation Squad.

......

“I found the Menorah you were looking for,” one correspondent offered with a Trump-triumphant backdrop on his Twitter profile; it was a candelabrum made of the number six million. Old Grand Dad cheerfully offered up a patriotic image of Donald Trump in colonial garb holding up the Liberty Bell and fighting “against the foreign hordes,” with caricatures of the Jew, the American Indian, the Mexican, the Chinese and the Irish cowering at his feet.

I am not the first Jewish journalist to experience the onslaught. Julia Ioffe was served up on social media in concentration camp garb and worse after Trump supporters took umbrage with her profile of Melania Trump in GQ magazine. The would-be first lady later told an interviewer that Ms. Ioffe had provoked it. The anti-Semitic hate hurled at the conservative commentator Bethany Mandel prompted her to buy a gun.

Continues...

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 29, 2016 - 07:39am PT
Klimmer why would god choose a pathological liar like Donald Trump?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 29, 2016 - 07:41am PT
Klimmer
you do realize that none of Trump's ideas will come to fruition with a Republican Congress.
He would have some hope for some of these policies with a Democratic Congress, like Medicare for all, strengthening SS, raising taxes on the rich, getting better trade deals.

The only thing the Republicans will do is up the military spending and cut more taxes, which will just pile on more debt.
he might get Congress to waste money on a wall, that will just do nothing but be more deficit spending.

And Trump already told us he will appoint extra Conservative SCOTUS judges that will make everything worse for money in politics.

and he's surrounding himself with Neo-con advisors and establishment insiders working him for crony favors.

He's just a con man, I can care less what some loony nuts put on youtube
I don't believe in prophecy


HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 29, 2016 - 09:20am PT
Libertarians be mad: http://twitter.com/eliotnelson/status/736755541486211073/photo/1




Caig posted
you do realize that none of Trump's ideas will come to fruition with a Republican Congress.

If he wins he's going to have a Republican House and likely a Republican Senate. Why wouldn't he get a lot of this stuff passed? If he wins he's going to own the Republican Party. Unless people wake up and realize the dream of Trump is far better than the reality, the RNC will fall in line or find themselves up against a wall.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 29, 2016 - 09:41am PT
Locker...Be careful just in case the ark thing is for real..!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 29, 2016 - 09:49am PT
Klimmer why would god choose a pathological liar like Donald Trump?

It's in Revelations. The antichrist rules for seven years before the Rapture. That's why Klimmer is so hot to get him elected.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 29, 2016 - 11:22am PT

compliments of Trump INC..
kattz

climber
May 29, 2016 - 11:51am PT
Anyone who wants a preview of the future world under the Democrats, look up average home value and rent in Mountain View, CA, the center of Kalifornistan "democracy" in Silicon Valley-- the place all run by hardcore, unrestricted democrats, and free yourself from delusions.
perswig

climber
May 29, 2016 - 11:57am PT
compliments of Trump INC..

Check yer math.
And remember there's no such thing as a free lunch.
Dale
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 29, 2016 - 12:01pm PT
Pyro...hopefully there wasn't Kool Aid in that bottle..?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 29, 2016 - 12:04pm PT

In the radioactive news.

Police: Lost Couple Cuts Chain to Enter Nuclear Plant Property


Police initially said, after consulting with security staff, that the man and woman appeared to have made it to “a highly security sensitive area where radioactive material is transferred from the main power plant. If the couple had gone inside a nearby outbuilding, the plant would have been placed on lockdown and there was a “possibility of lethal force being used,” authorities said in court documents.

Apparently, then the story changed.


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/05/29/police-lost-couple-cuts-chain-to-enter-nuclear-plant-property/lice: Lost Couple Cuts Chain to Enter Nuclear Plant Property


Any truth to the rumor that they were really just following the Trump doctrine that "the more nukes, the better"? Has ISIS heard the news?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 29, 2016 - 12:29pm PT
Anyone who wants a preview of the future world under the Democrats, look up average home value and rent in Mountain View, CA, the center of Kalifornistan "democracy" in Silicon Valley-

Do you really think Mountain View is representative of the country. High rents there are pure capitalism at work. Plenty of republicans are blaming Obama for low home values in other places. You need to work your economic theories out, maybe a consult with Klimmer is in order.

Trump panders like a cheap whore. He was just in Fresno telling farmers that the water shortage is a hoax.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 29, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
I think God has got some 'splainin to do. I just ran across this in an article about fundamentalists wanting to control sex; you are all probably familiar with the desire of truly religious persons to prohibit the use of contraceptives.

“To the woman he said, ‘I will greatly increase your pangs in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.’” Genesis 3:16 NRSV.

That's God talkin' there. What say you, Klimmer?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 29, 2016 - 01:06pm PT

He'd blow us all to Kingdom Come.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 29, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
What happens if Trump doesn't win

Will G-d be mad?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 29, 2016 - 01:43pm PT
Oh, good. You are explaining women's roles in the bible.

Now do Genesis 21:16

You know... That selling your daughter into slavery thing.

http://www.berenddeboer.net/sab/ex/21.html
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 29, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
The word of god is kinda of like magic

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
May 29, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
Is Mr. Klimmer STILL saying that a spirit in the sky put words in mens' heads and told them to write them down - to later be called a "bible"?

But here is Klimmer's problem


he cannot defend this Spirit in the Sky telling us humans that we should RAPE, MURDER, and ENSLAVE each other

oh yes, the bible is chock full of god ordering us to TORTURE and kill each other

fact is, that some 2000 years ago humans were at that time in the middle east STILL very much full of sh!t, scraping out a living being sheep herders, and very much raping, torturing, enslaving and killing each other and so it was quite natural of them to fantasize that the Spirit actually told them these were really good ideas

when you gonna grow up, Klimmer?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 29, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
when you gonna grow up, Klimmer?

when are you going to grow Norton!!!
Norton

Social climber
May 29, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
got your TRUMP Bumper Sticker proudly stuck on your truck, pyro?

sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
May 29, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
man, it's great the way Drumpf is uniting the country
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
May 29, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
hey dude, i know you love drumpf and all, but aren't you a pothead? he'd throw your ass in jail for being a dirty hippy.
and,btw, if his stupid orange-skinned, ridiculous comb-over wearing empty suit self gets elected, you going to put on a brown shirt and help round up mexicans who are taking the precious sh#t-labor jobs people in this country are too weak to do?
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
May 29, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
drumpf is for it now, until his neo-con handlers tell him he's not. you'll be in a cell with the same ILLEGALS, wondering what happened, and you'll be wishing you had put on the brown shirt instead of a tie-dyed one, because f*#k, you voted for the snake-oil salesman who was gonna make 'merica great again, chinese made american flags and all....
Norton

Social climber
May 29, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
As for the Hispanics, I'm all for them as long as they entered the country
LEGALLY!!!

Hi Cosmic!

yes that is all well and fine but Republican Ronald Reagan signed the Amnesty bill and allowed many millions more "illegals" to come in

and Mr Trump said he would round up all the 15 million people who are here illegally and send them back to where they came from

do you, Cosmic, agree with Trump that grandparents and parents should be physically removed from their screaming children who were born here then "legally" and would you then support you paying more taxes to round up those now parentless and homeless children up and move them all to newly created "resettlement" camps, perhaps like we did with the American Japanese during WW2?

have you really thought through the specifics, the details, of Mr Trumps' plans as carefully as he seems to have not have?

thanks Cosmic for your detailed thoughts on this
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
May 29, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 29, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
Lol ^^^^
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
May 29, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
hey cosmic, from what i've read you used to seem to like a pretty cool guy. what happened? old and afraid now? if drumpf doesn't win, is there going to be a jim jones type reckoning, with a line of bodies from California to Massachusetts? what a spectacle that will be....
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 29, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
Hey Norton;
You move to Mexico illegally and have a kid there.
See how long you stay till you are deported.

We are not Mexico, I want us to be better than that

We are the United States

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.”

The problem with the "Make'em come here legally" rant is the fact that only privileged rich people will get here legally. I prefer to have the less privileged, the hard workers, the motivated, these are the people that do the heavy lifting, fight our wars, and build our country.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
May 29, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
libtards? where did you go wrong? you know, drumpf won't do any of those things he keeps spewing out of his burger hole. if, for some inexplicable reason the collective IQ of the US drops to 40, and that con man is elected, none of what he says will come true. no wall, no mass deportations, no coal industry revival, no keystone pipeline, no rolling through syria kicking isis ass, none of it. just another 4 year stalemate, if that, enacted by a republican congress who hates that reality tv show host as much, if not more, than the libtards you hate.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
May 29, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
Man,it's great the way the Hilliary and Sanders libtard Trump protesters are burning police cars and throwing rocks

So here in sunny dayglow the police had the protesters well separated until after the rally. The trumpets were directed to exit toward first street to avoid the progressives, but a bunch of them turned back toward 5th st once out of police sight in order to stir things up & let off some steam that tromp whipped up.

Seems like if they really wanted to keep the peace, they could have quite easily.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 29, 2016 - 05:34pm PT
The trumpets were led by a guy wearing tye dyed clothing and a new knee brace...
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
May 29, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
Trump seems to be an abstract John Wayne fantasy for quite a few resentful, inadequate feeling white men who probably need a big hug and cry session.



Norton

Social climber
May 29, 2016 - 06:06pm PT
Cosmic isn't that bright, is he?

like everyone else who says they actually will vote for Donald Trump, they cannot "defend" their support

and so what they do instead is eventually under questioning admit that their vote is really a vote against "liberals" and not so much at all a vote FOR the Republican

when questioned about why they say they oppose Democrats (liberals) I find that they repeat lies that the right wing media in America has carefully fed them for years

often the three G's are the real problem they have with Democrats, God, Guns, and Gays

God because Democrats refuse to allow men to tell women what to do with their own bodies (abortion)

Guns because Democrats want to keep guns out of the hands of mass murderers by expanding background checks

and Gays because Democrats don't give a damn if you are straight or gay, and they DO
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
May 29, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
Project much?

Thanks, Sigmund

zBrown

Ice climber
May 29, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
Trump doesn't even ball, does he?
-Jess Saay Yin

Tell me that isn't a 16" softball.

Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
May 29, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
Newsweek Article: Trump Is Unfit To Be Our Commander In Chief by Erik Goepner

Colonel Erik Goepner is retired from the U.S. Air Force. During his military service, he commanded units in Afghanistan and Iraq. Currently, he is pursuing a Ph.D. in public policy at George Mason University. He is a registered Republican.

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-unsuitable-commander-chief-438566?piano_t=1
Norton

Social climber
May 29, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
Newsweek Article: Trump Is Unfit To Be Our Commander In Chief by Erik Goepner

does that mean anything to cosmic, guyman, couchmaster, eskopeeta, etc?

it just gets worse every day, Trump's awful "qualifications" as President
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 29, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
You forgot Pyro^^^^
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 29, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
It's been several pages since I've seen the picture of Donald apparently mocking the retarded or otherwise challenged individual.

I'm growing concerned. Can anyone repost?

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 29, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
Norton

Social climber
May 29, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 29, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
Do not worry veterans, Trump has your back, just like he did BITD

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/16/draft-dodger-trump-said-sleeping-around-was-my-personal-vietnam.html
couchmaster

climber
May 29, 2016 - 08:32pm PT


John asked, re Newsweek Article: Trump Is Unfit To Be Our Commander In Chief by Erik Goepner:
"does that mean anything to cosmic, guyman, couchmaster, eskopeeta, etc? "

I agree with what the Col. said, in fact, I thought it was on the lighter side of what I believe about Trump. He is that and more. That he is not as bad as Hillary should be noted as well. My prediction back in August or whenever that he didn't stand a chance was sadly incorrect. Yet I prefer him to Hillary - as noted before also.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
May 29, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
The choice between Trump and Clinton is like picking your favorite STD. I'll take crabs over syphilis.

With Hillary Clinton embroiled in an ongoing email scandal, Michelle Wolf gives the Democratic presidential hopeful advice on how to use the setback to her advantage.

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/kb2x61/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-advice-for-hillary-clinton

I'm with Wolf - I don't want someone I like or want to have a beer with - I want a grownup. I want someone who "eats data and shits sound policy."

Trump's a sad 8 year old bully in a man's body. He's Berlusconi's twin brother. He's white trash with money. He's the poster boy for the adage you can't buy class. Politifact puts his truthful statements at ~ 10% of total and Clinton at ~50% of total.

Clinton's "Pants on Fire" score is 1%; Trump's is 19%. Clinton's Mostly False, False, and Pants On Fire score combined is 28%; Trump's is 76%.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

As soon as Trump the draft dodger said McCain was no war hero, I crossed him out. He is the classic coward bully and that is not who you want as commander in chief.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 29, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
To be clear, he still doesn't stand a chance.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 29, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
escopeta...thanks for remembering PYRO...No man left behind....
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 29, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
PYRO is DT OG. So he's got that going for him.

PYRO, I was thinking of you today, sighting in some long range rifles with bags filled with Zuma sand. That super-fine, almost dust like sand that collects closer to the parking lots vs. near the water's edge.

None of the fake beaches in LA can replicate that Zuma original.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 29, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
Pyro..sounds like someone is tuning their rifle and thinking about you...lay low bro...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 29, 2016 - 09:31pm PT
I have zero tolerance for Trump and anyone who supports him.

We need a Manhattan Project-style effort to defeat this facist pig at the polls. He is the biggest threat this county has faced since Nazism.

Anyone supporting him or doing anything to undermine the candidacy of the person opposing him in November is a fool. Offer them no refuge or respite. Be relentless in your opposition.

There is no such thing as polite conversation or exchange of ideas possible with his supporters. He, and they, must be defeated. A Trump presidency would be the end of our country.
dirtbag

climber
May 29, 2016 - 09:35pm PT
Unfit:


Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
May 29, 2016 - 09:41pm PT
There is something "not quite true" about Trump. He is unfit. He is a disgraceful and ugly hearted little man. He is the poster boy for the saying, "Some people are so poor all they have is money."
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 29, 2016 - 10:08pm PT
Well played Cosmic.
dirtbag

climber
May 29, 2016 - 10:11pm PT
dirtbag

climber
May 29, 2016 - 10:22pm PT
A secondary but really cool perk to Hillary winning and Trump losing will be watching those here who are afflicted with Hillary Derangement Syndrome completely freak out. I, on the other hand, will be laughing robustly at their anguish and utter frustration.
dirtbag

climber
May 29, 2016 - 10:43pm PT
Cosmic brain is fried. Poor chap can't put together an original sentence.

Must be HDS.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 29, 2016 - 10:43pm PT
A Hilliary or Bernie presidency would be the end of our country.


Similarly, a Trump presidency would be the end of our country.

Either way, the party's over.



The United States is in the grip of what historians will someday call The Crisis of the Third Century.


Greed, income inequality, transfer of wealth from the poor to the wealthy, natural resource depletion, political gridlock and the ascendancy of foreign nations and criminal oligarchs have created The Crisis.



dirtbag

climber
May 29, 2016 - 10:46pm PT
On this Memorial Day before the election in November 2016, honor veterans and active duty soldiers and vote for ...

DONALD J. TRUMP

and Make America Great Again

Oh, you mean the guy who lied about a fundraiser he recently hosted for vets, dishonored Senator McCain's service by saying he admires vets who weren't captured (McCain spent 5 years as a pow), who while McCain was imprisoned dodged the draft, and vows to have soldiers commit war crimes and therefore, be subject to criminal charges?

No thanks.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 29, 2016 - 11:17pm PT
On this Memorial Day before the election in November 2016, honor all veterans and active duty soldiers and vote for ...

You might want to ask a real veteran what memorial day is all about. It has nothing to do with honoring vets and active duty soldiers. But I guess it is a good photo op for all the tough talkers who have never served, that apparently includes Klimmer.

Funny how Trump supporters call Hillary a liar. I am watching Trump spew lies as I type this.

The comment about McCain is unfortunate. I'm sure he would admit it. It was an off the cuff rash remark. He cares for our veterans and POWs. He's real. He says what's on his mind. Not scripted.

He doubled down on his comment and today refused to apologize. Nuff said
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 29, 2016 - 11:52pm PT
it is interesting how politics seems to separate us when its supposed to represent us all!? IE, The Declaration of Independence.

i really can't understand how any spiritual G-d believing man could say trump is more Jesus like than Obama?

but maybe that doesn't matter in your agenda.

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying or condoning we should be trying to hire "Jesus" to run the business that is America.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 30, 2016 - 12:04am PT
"I have zero tolerance for Hilliary or Bernie and anyone who supports them. "


Vote for Trump. It's the Christian thing to do.


Jeebus f*#king Christ you guys can be idiots.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 30, 2016 - 03:33am PT
Biker Vets for Draft Dodger Donald...

As I said, November will be the greatest thumbs up or thumbs down intelligence test the nation has ever undertaken.

Either way trump goes down in history as the most successful grifter and carpet bagger in history.
dirtbag

climber
May 30, 2016 - 05:55am PT
Yes, many avoided the draft of Vietnam, including Bill Clinton. But Trump did learn duty and love of country in Military school. It's not easy to go through military school. It's not active duty or reserves but it is something. Yet you don't acknowledge it at all. We have many students in public school who serve in and take ROTC. Many do not go on to active duty or reserves, but they do learn a great deal of respect and love for country. Their instructors are active or retired military officers.

Now who is lying?

He did not serve. He talks a good game though.
Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 07:22am PT
Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 07:26am PT
90. Claims he has given $102 million to charity. He has not released records to prove that assertion, but he has been reckoned the least charitable billionaire in the United States by a TSG review of his foundation’s Internal Revenue Service returns.



91. Trump lied that he could not get enough American workers to staff all the seasonal jobs his resort required during the busy season. When confronted with the fact that he had staffed a wrecking crew with undocumented Polish workers, Trump admitted he had lied.

92. After Marco Rubio brought up the size of Trump’s hands, Trump flailed that no one had ever mentioned the size of the hands before. That was a lie, as ABC reported:

Nearly 30 years ago, Graydon Carter, the editor of Vanity Fair magazine, described Trump in Spy magazine as a “short-fingered vulgarian.” In an editor’s letter in "Vanity Fair" last November, Carter said that he wrote the Sky magazine comment in 1988 "just to drive him a little bit crazy." And according to Carter, it still does.

"Like so many bullies, Trump has skin of gossamer," Carter wrote in November.

"To this day, I receive the occasional envelope from Trump. There is always a photo of him—generally a tear sheet from a magazine. On all of them he has circled his hand in gold Sharpie in a valiant effort to highlight the length of his fingers," Carter wrote. "I almost feel sorry for the poor fellow because, to me, the fingers still look abnormally stubby." "The most recent offering arrived earlier this year, before his decision to go after the Republican presidential nomination," Carter continued. "Like the other packages, this one included a circled hand and the words, also written in gold Sharpie: 'See, not so short!' I sent the picture back by return mail with a note attached, saying, 'Actually, quite short.'"


93. Trump repeated a lie his campaign made up about former Senator Tom Coburn, saying Coburn said of Cruz, “without a doubt, one of the most dishonest people in DC.” Coburn was furious, saying, “It’s an absolute fabrication. I’ve never said that, period.
Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 07:29am PT
Crankster

IF a new "Independent" Third Party is put into play it will be a conservative one

thereby splitting the Republican vote like Ralph Nader did to Gore in 2000 and guaranteeing a Hillary victory

how dumb would that be of Bill K ?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 30, 2016 - 07:42am PT
A Conservative Third Party nominee will give the ideological Neo-Cons someone to vote for and endorse,
and therefore have a way to save face by not having to support Trump

All the Libertarians will be voting for Gary Johnson, because they don't vote for Republicans (except when it comes to Congress, they vote Bright RED). Libertarians = hypocrites

Looks like it could get interesting.



Klimmer, you forgot to link to the story about Hillary killing Joan Rivers!!
Someone wrote about it, so it must be true!!


And if you read this, it will be true..
Trump is a Syop..


Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 07:43am PT
Should a conservative “Independent” run against Donald Trump, such a move would all but ensure a Clinton victory. A split GOP would pave the way for not only a Democratic takeover of the White House, but the GOP would suffer badly in their vulnerable Senate elections, and Democrats could very well take back the House.


GOOD!

I can't wait through today to find out who this impressive white male? will be......
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 30, 2016 - 07:53am PT
You guys would be SO f*#ked
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 30, 2016 - 07:53am PT

There is a special word reserved for hard core Conservative Women that have a huge rod up their butt
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 30, 2016 - 08:29am PT
Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 08:48am PT

And this one goes out to pyro, cosmic, couchmaster, guyman, eskopeeta. et all


Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 08:50am PT
Trump tried to have disabled veteran street vendors thrown off Fifth Avenue, accusing the Vietnam-era soldiers of ruining how the street in front of Trump Tower looked.

Before his presidential campaign, Trump’s charitable foundation gave more to the Clintons than to veterans organizations.
kattz

climber
May 30, 2016 - 09:05am PT
Kudos to Condi Rice, very good words about victimhood syndrome and entitlement.
kattz

climber
May 30, 2016 - 09:13am PT
Let me guess what will be the leftists' top project around 2025...

Land redistribution, I'm pretty sure--racial quotes and doing evictions, Zimbabwe/Rhodesia style.

South Africa, by the way, just passed land expropriation law based on race...no usual cries from US SJW.
Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 09:19am PT
Yes

Vote Republican and vote Recession

Amnesia?

8 years of Repub Bush = millions of jobs lost

5 million homes foreclosed

Worst economic Recession since the Great Depression

But then God, Guns, and Gays are more important than the economy

Vote Republican!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 30, 2016 - 09:37am PT
It doesn't frigging matter. I was on a Rick Steves travel forum the other day, known to be the
exclusive domain of rich liberals, and some retard posted a thread that asked if there was
train service between Paris and Strasbourg. There is no hope.
Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 09:52am PT
No

Trump is not Bush, he is even more narcissistic

But he IS a Republican

Think Recession and millions of jobs destroyed

Klimmer, you would vote for Satan vs a woman
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 30, 2016 - 10:08am PT
"You guys would be SO f*#ked"


Who are we talking about, exactly?

Hillary could use a good vote splitter right now.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 30, 2016 - 10:27am PT
Why don't you check with politifact and get back to me. Since you're such an expert. Lol
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 30, 2016 - 10:41am PT
Why don't you check with politifact and get back to me. l

Wow, I had no idea he was liar of the year.

2% true is outstanding.
Thanks for the heads up.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 30, 2016 - 10:46am PT
Really, no idea? How was your nap Mr Van Winkle?

Trump is in some rarefied air since our current sitting president won the same award, while in office.

If that's predicative, head's might actually explode.

Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 10:53am PT
So "escoteeta"

We STILL are waiting for you on two lies

1) You said you had lost "individual liberties" and "freedoms", yet you can NOT name them

2) You said that Hillary Clinton "lied" about "US troop response" during Benghazi

I am calling YOU a liar, again, on both numbers 1 and 2a

prove you own lies ....or....apologize for being a liar....and resolve to stop lying
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 30, 2016 - 11:00am PT
How old are you? Lol
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 30, 2016 - 11:11am PT
Those who guard our borders and put their lives in danger by doing so know what's up. They know who they can trust. It isn't Obama. It isn't Hillary Clinton.

They trust Donald J. Trump.


amen klimmer!

every Wednesday I celebrate the building of trumps 55ft wall by way of burrito for lunch!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 30, 2016 - 11:19am PT
Happy Memorial Day from the California Trump Team!

I just got am email from the liar himself, DJ Drumptf. Like Klimmer, he has no clue what Memorial day is all about. Its a damn party, be happy folks. No somber reflection on the ultimate sacrifice some paid. Kinda like the Catholics that eat lobster on Fridays during lent.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 30, 2016 - 11:19am PT
On a positive note; Miss Clinton just pronounced to the women of America live on The View, That she is a CHRISTIAN!

8^O


edit; prolly a catholic one tho:(
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 30, 2016 - 11:45am PT
Just got back from an aborted solo alpine trip; too many fallen trees on the approach made it ridiculous, not able to switch climbs because unable to contact the wife to let her know where I was going. There, a bit of climbing content! Just catching up on the continuing soap opera.

Wow Klimmer, so Hillary is also a lesbian? How do you know all this stuff? It's simply fkn' amazing.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
May 30, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
You guys just don't understand. Klimmer has proof because Glenn Beck said so!

Apparently, she is a lesbian because she promotes women's and gay rights and dosesn't make dinner.

Hmmm, guess I'm a lesbian, too!
Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
Michael Hayden: Trump Is Helping ISIS


Michael Hayden, the former head of both the CIA and the NSA, explained in an interview with the Guardian that “the jihadist narrative is that there is undying enmity between Islam and the modern world.”

“When Trump says they all hate us, he’s using their narrative,” Hayden said. “He’s feeding their recruitment video.”
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
May 30, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
 unable to contact the wife to let her know where I was going. 

Are they back in her purse now? Or does she have one of these?


Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 30, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 30, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
Not funny.

Well, maybe not as funny as the stuff you post, but I'm trying.
dirtbag

climber
May 30, 2016 - 12:55pm PT
For someone claiming not to hate gay people you sure seem rattled by her supposed sexuality.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 30, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
Yeah, mine aren't that big dikhed. But I still want to keep them intact.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
May 30, 2016 - 12:58pm PT
Ghost, That 007 meme is awesome!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 30, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
Accept a female lesbian? As opposed to what other kind of lesbian?

No, we'd much prefer a racist as#@&%e for president. F*#k that.

Five gold stars for Ghost.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 30, 2016 - 01:33pm PT
Just don't run for public office thinking you can do both.

Why not? Because it clashes with your personal religious beliefs?

What if your personal religious beliefs differ from those of other people? Why are your beliefs the ones that determine who can run for public office?

I'm not a US citizen, so I may not know everything there is to know about the rules here, but I sure don't remember any signs at the border saying: "No Lesbians In Public Office" or "This Country Is Run On Klimmer's Religious Beliefs."
kattz

climber
May 30, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
Well, non-US citizens can't vote, so their opinion shouldn't factor into the elections.

"but I sure don't remember any signs at the border saying: "No Lesbians In Public Office"' --up to not so long ago, homosexuality was included in the list of offenses preventing legal immigration into the US and it was a crime in many states; this had changed only recently.
kattz

climber
May 30, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
After leftists destroy this country, trust me it won't matter who's gay, transgender or what :)...there'll be other, more major problems for almost everyone, such as survival.

I'd bother to get a 2nd citizenship if one already doesn't have it, and think about offshoring their savings in the future, etc...polarization and radicalization of society seem to be only increasing, despite 8-year rule of democrats who claim that multiculturalism works and that they're successful at increasing equality.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 30, 2016 - 01:57pm PT

May 30, 2016 - 01:45pm PT

I'd bother to get a 2nd citizenship if one already doesn't have it, and think about offshoring their savings in the future, etc...polarization and radicalization of society seem to be only increasing, despite 8-year rule of democrats who claim that multiculturalism works and that they're successful at increasing equality.

Buh-bye.

Be sure to write.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 30, 2016 - 02:04pm PT

Her main love is circled. Her right hand woman and Sec of State aid, Weiner's wife, Huma.

She has had multiple abortions from all that lesbian Sex!!!

Is Anthony Weiner OK with his wife being Hillary's Lover??
?????
No wonder he has to post dick pics, he needs some hetero loven


Klimmer, tell us again why you say Obama is a Muslim
because I heard he was a Real Christian.
Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
Klimmer

It is both a FACT and kept SECRET that Donald Trump is a HOMOSEXUAL

There are CONFIRMED RUMORS in the New York City GAY COMMUNITY

It has been said that his HOMOSEXUALITY is the reason for his three failed marriages

This never before released secret photo of Trump and his debate coach kissing was taken as the door to his dressing room opened and caused great embarrassment.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 30, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
Klimmer, I guess while we're on the subject you could clear something up. I heard that Obama was a gay prostitute BITD. Any truth to that 'rumor'?

And also, I seem to recall a picture of Bush kissing the Saudi King and holding his hand. What's up with that?



Edited to add pictures.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 30, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
Oh man those pictures are great! Oh my cracked me up good
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 30, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
Oddly enough, overwatch, they're real.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 30, 2016 - 04:29pm PT
Klimmer, I guess while we're on the subject you could clear something up. I heard that Obama was a gay prostitute BITD. Any truth to that 'rumor'?

Yeah.

It was before he came into the country from Kenya illegally, doncha know.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 30, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
Lorenzo, you seem like a knowledgeable person; how does one actually enter the US of A from Kenya illegally? I mean, you can't just sort of get on a plane because there is immigration to deal with. A raft perhaps, or a submarine? Inquiring minds want to know!!!

It's still amazing to me that Obama's parents (or whatever they were, that's still unclear) were able to predict that he, young Obama, the issue of an American and a Kenyan, would one day run for the presidency of the US of A and that they had the presence of mind to plant totally false stories in the Honolulu papers to confirm his birth/citizenship. But wait!!!!! Ted Cruz was born in Canada!!! Wow, did that concern the birther people, an actual documented foreigner trying to run for President? Nah. He was white.

Edit: Just out of curiosity has anyone seen Trump's birth certificate? I certainly haven't and I'm getting pretty pissed because I believe he's hiding something!! And what about the tax returns? Offshore accounts, hanky panky, paid no taxes; what's he hiding?
Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 04:56pm PT

We all get what we want in the end don't we...whoosh, swish ...
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 30, 2016 - 05:13pm PT
After leftists destroy this country, trust me it won't matter who's gay, transgender or what :)...there'll be other, more major problems for almost everyone, such as survival.

I challenge you to name even one "leftist" president who has not left this country substantially better than they found it. Now, go Google something and get back to me.

Curt
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 30, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
Thanks locker, I'm on it!!! Look at the Yakima news tomorrow for details.
Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
and whatever the fuk else you want...

yep, Locker

and there really are some of us who can't stop themselves from getting what they don't really want....
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 30, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
Edit: Just out of curiosity has anyone seen Trump's birth certificate? I certainly haven't and I'm getting pretty pissed because I believe he's hiding something!! And what about the tax returns? Offshore accounts, hanky panky, paid no taxes; what's he hiding?

Interesting question.

It seems all they can come up with is some sort of certificate of registration, which we learned was not legitimate for mr Obama.

Here it is, and it looks like a poor photoshop job to me:

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 30, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
As to trump having offshore accounts...

I give you this.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Donald-Trump-Named-in-Latest-Panama-Papers-Leak-20160511-0044.html
Norton

Social climber
May 30, 2016 - 05:47pm PT

or will you doom yourself to an eternal Hell???...


edit

a very few do get the message but sacrifice short term pleasure for long term loss....
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 30, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Oddly enough, overwatch, they're real.

I figured they were real they have different Customs over there. Your caption is what cracked me up
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
May 30, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 30, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
Trump said that dodging venereal disease in the 1980's was his "personal Vietnam".


He received a physical disability deferment for bone spurs in his foot. When asked which foot, Trump wasn't able to answer.

Trump was a champion athlete and team captain at the military school reformatory he was sent to.

Apparently, Trump's debilitating and disabling bone spurs materialized while he attended the University of Pennsylvania.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 30, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 30, 2016 - 08:35pm PT
It's nice when pictures say all that's needed to be said

more, yea!!!


Did she do Slovakian porn before Trump found her?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 30, 2016 - 09:46pm PT
Whatever, her husband's going to burn in the fiery furnaces of hell.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 30, 2016 - 10:50pm PT
You have to admit he has great taste.

How does him being with a woman that anyone would find attractive prove that he has great taste? You say some goofy s h i t.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 30, 2016 - 11:02pm PT

She's gonna be our First Lady. She'll probably get her own calendar as a result. Lol

"It is our humor that sustained us for 6000 yrs" Seinfeld


Glad you got some Klimmer
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
May 31, 2016 - 05:03am PT
King Soloman had over 800 women.
Impressive. The way G-d designed it as well?
For someone who supposedly doesn't like gays, G-d sure makes a lot of them.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 31, 2016 - 05:25am PT
Any pics of Donald in a banana hammock for all the gay posters...?
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 31, 2016 - 05:30am PT
Melania Trump may win it for Donald! She is beautiful...makes Hillary really hurt the eyes.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
May 31, 2016 - 05:43am PT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 31, 2016 - 07:22am PT
So Klimmer, using your logic, if Trump had married any ugly woman he wouldn't be qualified to be president?

How about leaving trophy wives and appearances out of the discussion? I mean, picturing a naked Trump or Christie makes me feel a bit.....queasy. Let's just not go there.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
May 31, 2016 - 07:33am PT
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/stephen-hawking-donald-trump-appeals-lowest-common-denominator-n583026?cid=sm_fb
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
May 31, 2016 - 07:49am PT
^^^^Gotta go with you on that, Werner.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 31, 2016 - 07:59am PT
No wonder their country is so messed up ....

Classic First World view. There are billions of people on this planet that wished they had our "problems".
dirtbag

climber
May 31, 2016 - 08:01am PT
How about leaving spouses and children of politicians out of the discussion entirely.

DMT

I mostly agree, as long as they want to be quiet and haven't involved their spouses in any compromising shenanigans.


Bill Clinton, however, is fair game.
Norton

Social climber
May 31, 2016 - 08:09am PT
attack

attack

attack

nice life
zBrown

Ice climber
May 31, 2016 - 08:30am PT
Here's the map of U.S. Radioactivity.

http://www.nrel.gov/gis/images/geothermal_resource2009-final.jpg


HaHa. The sharp-eyed sharpies out there will notice that it's not.

Where is the radioactivity map actually located?


Well this is certainly not as pretty (can radiation be called that here), but not bad for a first cut.

http://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/35.png
zBrown

Ice climber
May 31, 2016 - 08:37am PT
More Japanese that U.S., but Japan has been in the news again, where it's been advocated that they man up and start producing their own weapons.

Fukushima'n_A right.

overwatch

climber
Arizona
May 31, 2016 - 08:49am PT
Man, that is f u c k e d up!
dirtbag

climber
May 31, 2016 - 09:41am PT
The problem is that families often get dragged along, without their consent, by their ambitious spouses or parents or children. They often don't voluntarily enter anything.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
May 31, 2016 - 09:55am PT
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
May 31, 2016 - 10:33am PT
dirtbag

climber
May 31, 2016 - 10:35am PT
Richie Rich Donald gave the promised $1,000,000 to vets last week, only after Washington post article calling him on his failure to do so, then alludes to a libel lawsuit against the press.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/31/donald-trump-is-totally-wrong-about-the-media-when-it-comes-to-his-veterans-donations/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpvets-1230pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory


Donald better put on his big boy press pants if he wants to be prez.

zBrown

Ice climber
May 31, 2016 - 10:37am PT



I don't know, but worth looking into what the truth is here:

Kids are 100 times more sensitive to radiation.

No known technology to filter tritium.

The only element that can contain tritium is gold.



Date unknown.

We have about 104 reactors in the US producing electricity, far more reactors than any other single country! The oldest one running is the same age as I am! They are licensed for 40 years with a 20-year extension possible. As most were built in the 70's & 80's soon we are looking at dismantling a number of nuclear reactors.

Where they gonna put all that stuff? Hope none of it ends up in Tim's truck resurrected and parked on a street in NYC. Probably would bring quick end to the NY Marathon. Would the subways be safe?


dirtbag

climber
May 31, 2016 - 10:42am PT
I wonder if John Miller was one of the dead beats who trump claims didn't send in their pledged contributions?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
May 31, 2016 - 10:48am PT
Judge Napolitano pointed out that Powell only used her personal email for State Department business several times, and at no point did those emails involve material that was confidential, secret or top secret.

A few problems with the judge: First, Powell is a "he" not a "she"---does he know what he is talking about?

Second, not long ago, Powell had several emails reclassified, meaning that he also did the same thing as Hillary.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 31, 2016 - 11:02am PT
The only element that can contain tritium is gold.

wot?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 31, 2016 - 11:16am PT
I'm just reporting them at this point.


How radioactive is the earth?




“Keeping tabs on nuclear reactors is important for international safety and security. But as a geologist, I’m particularly excited for the potential to learn more about Earth’s interior,” said University of Maryland geologist and study co-author William McDonough. “This project will allow us to access basic information about the planet’s fuel budget across geologic time scales, and might yet reveal new and exciting details on the structure of the deep Earth.”



http://gizmodo.com/glowing-antineutrino-map-shows-how-radioactive-the-eart-1728765824
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 31, 2016 - 11:58am PT
Well here's good news that may make me change my mind!! North Korea just came out in support of Trump!!!
zBrown

Ice climber
May 31, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
^Right now I'm just looking around and reporting some of it. I'll start theorizing down the road.

One obvious conclusion to be drawn though, is that I have now done more research on these issues than Trump or any of his so-called advisors.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
May 31, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
Trump's next press release might be this:


Fukishima is a hoax, invented by the Chinese to weaken America so they can take our gold.




Trump denies global warming and the drought in California, so Fukishima denial seems right up his alley.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 31, 2016 - 02:20pm PT
Richie Rich Donald gave the promised $1,000,000 to vets last week, only after Washington post article calling him on his failure to do so, then alludes to a libel lawsuit against the press.

Trump supports the VETS much better than OBAMA!
Norton

Social climber
May 31, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
Show us your Trump bumper sticker again pyro
dirtbag

climber
May 31, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
Trump hasn't done sh#t for vets.

Oh yeah, he did bad mouth McCain for his imprisonment and torture at the Hanoi Hilton while he got a deferment. There is that.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 31, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
Technically, Pyro's point was that Trump has supported vets more than Obeezy. So, if Trump hasn't done sh#t for yets, then that implies Obama has done slightly less than sh#t about the Vets. Which seems pretty spot on.
dirtbag

climber
May 31, 2016 - 02:40pm PT
You're a deep thinker Esco.
dirtbag

climber
May 31, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
Tell us again how you believe the moon landings were faked.

That oughta be good for a few laughs.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
May 31, 2016 - 02:51pm PT
Technically, Pyro's point was that Trump has supported vets more than Obeezy. So, it Trump hasn't done sh#t for yets, then that implies Obama has done slightly less than sh#t about the Vets. Which seems pretty spot on.

First, being president doesn't mean you're the emperor.

Second, it wasn't Obama that got us involved in the Irag and Afghanistan clusterf*#ks.

Third, it is primarily Republicans in the House and Senate that vote down benefits.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 31, 2016 - 02:53pm PT
First, being president doesn't mean you're the emperor.

Would someone please tell the current POTUS this? He honors this only with his lips; his actions show otherwise.

John
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 31, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
"Technically, Pyro's point was that Trump has supported vets more than Obeezy. So, it Trump hasn't done sh#t for yets, then that implies Obama has done slightly less than sh#t about the Vets. Which seems pretty spot on."


And the republican led congress has done less, Obama doesn't hold the purse strings.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 31, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
Obama isn't Really, really, unbelievably rich like trump says he is. The supposed 5.4 million is pocket change for the Donald by his own claims.

And whats up with saying you wanted to make the donations anonymous after bragging about it at a fund raiser? If you want credit, you have to be willing to be held to scrutiny.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
May 31, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
Table of Executive Actions by President
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

Reagan 381
Bush 166
Clinton 364
Bush 291
Obama 242

Obama Net Worth
http://www.profitconfidential.com/net-worth/barack-obama-net-worth/

Trump Net Worth per Forbes
http://www.forbes.com/donald-trump/#73a3b88c790b

Trump's Business Empire per Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/29/the-myth-and-the-reality-of-donald-trumps-business-empire/

Presidential Job Approval Ratings from Ike to Obama per Pew Research Center
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/12/presidential-job-approval-ratings-from-ike-to-obama/
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
May 31, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
Republicans and their backwards world.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/199480-gop-blocks-veterans-bill
zBrown

Ice climber
May 31, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
David French? It's Greek to me. Anybody met him?


Heeeere's David.

Pure opinion piece, devoid of any factual basis.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435971/barack-obama-hiroshima-speech-was-wrong

zBrown

Ice climber
May 31, 2016 - 04:01pm PT
Would someone please tell the current POTUS this? He honors this only with his lips; his actions show otherwise.


More importantly than anyone talking to Kenyan Obama, what do the facts and the courts, other than the court of ST convervative opinion say?

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 31, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
Donald The Dick Drumpf.

The biggest spewer in the history of presidential elections. And that's saying a lot.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
May 31, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
Disclaimer - the following is merely personal opinion.

Trump is a boorish small minded braggart bully without character who nobody would have ever heard of he hadn't been handed privilege and connections by his dad. Without the luck of his birth he would probably be spewing his hateful rhetoric at the McDonalds he owned and the patrons would be shaking their heads about what a pathetic person he is. He is only liked because people are enamored with mountains and mountains of bright shiny things and like the idea of being associated with it and because he has a profound talent for pandering to people's basest instincts.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 31, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
Well Trump may suck big time, but when Prophecy foretells him as G-d's chosen one... what else can you say?

We have to vote for the worst presidential candidate in the History of America because G-d says he will work through Him, The Donald
and G-d hates Hillary with a passion

Got it. Now fall in line
You have to wake up!, open your mind!, open your EyEs!!!....

Look past how much you think Trump sucks, just stop it, OK,
Trump will change when we elect him, that's what Prophecy sAys
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 31, 2016 - 04:41pm PT

Norton better yet ill show sticker and front yard house banner!
Norton

Social climber
May 31, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
PLEASE do so, pyro

you are SO COOL to do Show and Tell with me, thanks!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 31, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
As if the cross burnings didn't already give him away to his neighbors.
Norton

Social climber
May 31, 2016 - 05:51pm PT

pyro

is Escopeta your nephew?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 31, 2016 - 06:21pm PT
Anybody readin this an immigrant?

Anyway

"I pity the poor immigrant
who wishes he would have stayed home"
-R. Zimmerman

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2669435&msg=2675654#msg2675654
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 31, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
My computer wouldn't let me click on the Prophecy links
so let me know if I got it wrong

vvv
G-d cut me out of the e-mail loop when I declared myself a hard core atheist.

Maybe someone can forward his e-mails to me, so I can keep up.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 31, 2016 - 07:01pm PT

Nazi Helmet on Mars
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 31, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
Craig, everybody knows Trump lies. And everybody knows the Nazis have been to Mars. What's your point? Tell us something new.

It's frickin' Tintin!!!


Sorry Craig, couldn't resist.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 31, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
But, best of all, he loves us!!!!!!!! He's got my vote.

[Click to View YouTube Video]



Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 31, 2016 - 08:00pm PT
Well smarty pants, did you know that Mars has breathable AIR!!!

A Whistle blower came forward with the info, he was there on Mars!!!

The most significant similarity between Cramer’s and Goode’s testimonies concerns the Martian atmosphere. According to Cramer, when he landed on Mars, he exited and directly experienced the Martian atmosphere:

It was that particular time that we came out, it was, it felt like a hot day but there was a very cold wind that was blowing and you felt like you came out at 8000 or 9000 feet or something like that. The air was very thin, but totally breathable. I was really quite surprised to be honest, to have them just open up the door and say alright head for that other door and have us walk right outside but we did.

This is what Corey Goode says about his experience on Mars:

There is a thin atmosphere (like being at very high altitudes on Earth) but the atmospheric pressure is very low as is the temperature most of the time. There are times depending on Mars season and weather that make it possible for very short exposure time on the surface…. I would imagine that some have slightly acclimated to it. I would not want to spend any amount of time outside of the light duty suits we wore especially if you were doing anything physically exertive. There were some small wild life and vegetation that we observed in the general location of where the construction was being done.

http://exopolitics.org/whistleblowers-reveal-breathable-air-on-mars-secret-corporate-bases/


So Tintin didn't need a spacesuit
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 31, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
Damn!!! Did they equalize the pressure or just open the hatch? Brave men in my book, so totally believable! Of course, the smart designer would use air pressure to keep the hatch closed, it you get my drift........so they must be really strong -- sort of like Trump, that paragon of manhood all the women love. As do I...........

Edited to add that actually I'm not a woman, but Trump still makes me swoon. He's so frickin' .......manly.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 31, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
There have been a number of Curiosity Rover images that appear to show small animals on the surface of Mars such as lizards, squirrels and even ducks which helps confirm Goode’s claims of small wild life and vegetation. The Curiosity Rover images support Cramer’s and Goode’s claims that Mars has a thin breathable atmosphere.

I'm thinking they were smoking ducks

They flew there from here

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 31, 2016 - 08:16pm PT
I haven't seen any plants, so what the hell do the small animal eat? And why ducks? I mean, it's not like there are lakes or anything. Or are there? Maybe underground, sort of like the hollow moon, which would explain why the Massive Ark was there.........

Still, sort of pure speculation on my part.

Edit: And what does this have to do with the Donald anyway? Or is he really an alien? I haven't seen his long form (whatever that is) birther certificate, so who knows? Would he have to deport himself?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 31, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
Mighty, I ain't seein' no arrows in them hearts. Cain't be true love.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 31, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
The point is
Open your eyes, if someone writes about it, it must be True!
Why would they lie, or make it up, that would be so rude


Those hearts on Mars proves that G-d is Love, and he shows it through out the Universe with images of Hearts!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
May 31, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
Luckily Dr. Fry forgives these right wing troll loons..,Hillary isn't perfect...She likes carpet but she's god's choice and will she will make America great again....
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
May 31, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
She isn't perfect like my first pick was, JEBUS

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 31, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
Braun, you seem to be hanging on pretty good too. Maybe he's gotten to you. Actually, the mighty Klimmer (who has been strangely silent lately) is the main attraction.

I appreciate your, how shall I say it, aura. You cover so many different aspects of the discussion, such as it is, in such short, pithy statements. I doff my pith helmet to you. Continue.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
May 31, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
It's easy if you already live in a bomb-proof underground bunker. The rest of us have to start from scratch.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
May 31, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
May 31, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
Damn, he was really good. One forgets............
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
May 31, 2016 - 09:45pm PT
If history is our guide, winners of the politifact lie of the year tend to be president. So Drumph has that going for him.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 31, 2016 - 10:04pm PT
Any vet supporting him might as well just go to Arlington and piss on the graves of their fallen comrades...
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:18am PT


"Why do lieberals keep making this about race? Nobody is bringing up race here except libtards. Nobody else cares about race."





(Also, the fact that "cuck" has become a common conservative epithet is essentially 100% of what you need to know about how much of a future conservatism has with millennials.)
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:25am PT
wait, this French guy is Kristol's pick? LOL... I didn't expect much but I expected more than that. On the other hand I suppose Kristol was one of the failing essential organs of the Shrub presidency.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:44am PT
"The lies that matter"^^^^^

Now we are picking our president on the quality and severity of their lies, not their truths?

Vote differently.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 07:27am PT
Politicians will continue to lie to us for exactly as long as we require them to. One cannot look at the American electorate and think, "now here is a group of people eager to hear balanced, fair minded truths."



nature posted
wait, this French guy is Kristol's pick? LOL... I didn't expect much but I expected more than that. On the other hand I suppose Kristol was one of the failing essential organs of the Shrub presidency.

I think he falls into the "literally the only one willing to take the job" category. You could argue that Romney is a puss for not doing it himself.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:01am PT
Yeah, French who?

Nonetheless, it wouldn't surprise me if he got a percentage or two, largely from fans of the national review who can't stomach either Hillary or Trump. That will help Hillary.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:06am PT
Trump Trump Trump is taking a dump in your stoopid Hillary head!!!!

+1
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:06am PT
If he makes it to November I'll be amazed.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:10am PT
Does anyone have that picture of Donald mocking the handicapped guy? I seem to have misplaced it.

10000k by the end of June I predict...
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:16am PT
If he makes it to November I'll be amazed.


And so will Glenn Beck.

Beck's right-wing radio station was suspended by SiriusXM because he suggested that someone should assassinate Trump.



http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2016/05/31/siriusxm-announces-suspension-glenn-beck-brad-thor-interview-comments/

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:17am PT
No, I think he actually meant 10,000,000.

As to lies, I have no clue as to when Trump is actually telling the truth, if ever. As my mother taught me, 'Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive'.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:18am PT
The Anti-PC Vote
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/01/opinion/campaign-stops/trump-clinton-edsall-psychology-anti-pc-vote.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

"We know that resentment is driving much of Donald Trump’s success — resentment of elites, of the political class, of illegal immigrants, of protesters, of the media — and perhaps most particularly of changes in the demographic makeup of the country that Trump and his followers find unwelcome."
dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:36am PT
Here ya go fear:

dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:38am PT
His press conference yesterday was interesting, in that it was the first time trump really seemed rattled. Finally, the press is digging deep. The trump university documents that were recently released shows a real rat at work, exploiting people without much money with promised to get rich quick.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:45am PT
A liar will not be believed, even when he speaks the truth. - Aesop



Trump is a pathological liar. He lies about inconsequential things. He lies in the face of irrefutable evidence. His ever-changing lies conflict with his previous lies. He probably mumbles lies in his sleep to Melania.

Trump considers lying to be a valuable business skill. He constantly practices, over and over again, to maintain his proficiency.


Trump's self-image seems to be that of a magical, or God-like entity, who can conjure a parallel universe, or a pseudo-reality simply by making an absurd statement. Even worse, he believes that other people are constrained to exist within his conjured pseudo-realities.


Trump is a freak, and a walking, talking nosology of psychiatric dysfunction.

dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:50am PT
Not the kind of guy who should be given the nuclear codes.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:56am PT
Not the kind of guy who should be given the nuclear codes.


but the powerful intellects think otherwise - cosmic, pyro, eskopetta, guyman, couchmaster. klimmer

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:57am PT

Finally, the press is digging deep.

It's about time. If not for the media coverage, trump would never have made it this far.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 1, 2016 - 09:01am PT
Steve wrote: It's about time. If not for the media coverage, trump would never have made it this far.


Bam!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 1, 2016 - 09:15am PT
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2016 - 09:37am PT
and now they need to take his sorry ass down...

Timing is everything. They knew Drumpf was good for ratings so they let him be. Now it's time to expose the pathological liar for what he is all the while raking in billions.



^^^ he does like to use the word 'dummy' a lot but 'dummy donald' has the best ring to it.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 1, 2016 - 09:46am PT
This could be a game changer for the whole election!!! A superpac has been formed to get out the Amish vote for Trump.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/donald-trumps-secret-weapon-the-amish

I'm sort of doubtful Trump's life style is going to really appeal to the Amish, but who knows anymore ...........
dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 09:53am PT
Now there's a constituency I didn't see trump making a play for.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 10:04am PT
Pennsylvania is a crux state for Republicans. It's not a bad idea really.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2016 - 10:05am PT
well... he's also making a play for California thinking he can turn it red. shows how much of a dummy donald dummy drumpf is
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 10:24am PT
Anyone who believes in any kind of "silent majority" are drinking their own kool-aid.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 1, 2016 - 10:26am PT
HA!

Trump's own employees are now testifying under oath that his so-called Trump University was a lie, a scam, a fraud and a con.


http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/01/news/trump-university-employees/index.html



Trump is suffering from Reality Collapse Disorder.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 10:34am PT
TU is going to hurt him.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 10:46am PT
And, that was a nice racist jab he made at the judge in the case.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 1, 2016 - 10:47am PT
TU is just the tip of the sordid Trump iceberg.



Just another Trump story:

He tried to force an elderly widow to sell her seaside home to him, by invoking eminent domain. He wanted to evict her from her home of 30+ years so that he could build a limousine garage at one of his Atlantic City casinos. The widow had to fight Trump in court to retain ownership of the home that she owned.

When Trump was asked about the incident during one of the debates this year, he claimed, "That never happened".

In other words, the eminent domain seizure never happened, because the widow prevailed in her lawsuit to stop Trump.

Trump's attempt to take her home absolutely happened. It's a matter of public record.




Trump's pretending that his past is invisible and unknowable to the public is an amazing display of Trumpzpah.

He must be truly insane to think that his 40+ years of egregious behavior is irrelevant.


The Democrats have just barely started to pull skeletons out of Trump's oversized, live-in closet.

Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 1, 2016 - 11:16am PT
Trump appears to confuse whining with winning.

The beast beneath becomes more apparent as the wax mask melts in the heat.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 1, 2016 - 11:20am PT
Table of Executive Actions by President
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

Reagan 381
Bush 166
Clinton 364
Bush 291
Obama 242

The problem isn't in the number of executive actions, it's in their nature. The Constitutional jurisprudence allows executive actions that are consistent with and in furtherence of existing legislation. This President, unlike his predecessors, has initiated numerous executive actions that lie far outside the permissible bounds.

As just one example, the alleged "prosecutorial discretion" not to enforce a law affecting millions of persons in the country illegally has no basis in any existing law. A court has not only enjoined that action, the court has sanctioned the government lawyers for lying to the court about those actions. No other President in my lifetime, and probably no other in the history of the U.S. with the possible exception of Woodrow Wilson in World War I, has taken such extra-constitutional action, nor has the executive branch been smacked down in more unanimous Supreme Court opinions for its overreach.

John
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 1, 2016 - 11:29am PT
Dirtbag, what comments did he make about the judge? I didn't see it.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 11:35am PT
Here it is:


"The trial is going to take place sometime in November. There should be no trial. This should have been dismissed on summary judgment easily, everybody says it. But I have a judge who is a hater of Donald Trump, a hater. He's a hater," Trump said.
Trump added, "The judge, who happens to be, we believe, Mexican, which is great. I think that's fine."

Yep, that's very presidential.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/30/politics/katrina-pierson-criticizes-trump-university-judge/

This clown is an utter embarrassment.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 1, 2016 - 11:41am PT
I predicted long ago that once Trump became the apparent nominee, and it was too late for Republicans to nominate anyone else, the mainstream media would start to report all his negatives. Let the fun begin.

John
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 11:58am PT
6-1-2016 11:25AM (*Exceptional page, even has date and time on it)

Pre-election jitters?

Two dead in shooting at UCLA, campus on lockdown

According to the Daily Bruin, the shooter was wearing a black jacket and black pants.

I wonder if it was Trump, Obama, Ross Perot, or "Pat" Brown? Sanders' supporter?

I wonder if the shooter was wearing any shoes.

Can't describe the shooter any better, but most students were able to get a tweeter out on it.


UPDATE: Obama was on plane. Gonna be hard to pin it on him. Some cops are carrying sledge hammers. No chants of "pigs off campus" reported, yet.

Like I said, model web page.

UPDATES:

11:25 a.m.: This article was updated with additional interviews from students.

11:10 a.m.: This article was updated with confirmation of the deaths of two victims.

10:51 a.m.: This article was updated with additional information from law enforcement officials.

10:41 a.m.: This article was updated with new details.

This article was originally posted at 10:17 a.m.

UPDATE2:
Homicide and suicide likely.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 1, 2016 - 11:58am PT
No other President in my lifetime, and probably no other in the history of the U.S. with the possible exception of Woodrow Wilson in World War I, has taken such extra-constitutional action, nor has the executive branch been smacked down in more unanimous Supreme Court opinions for its overreach.

It is important to note that the executive actions are subject to judicial review. You really should be more worried about the unconstitutional refusal of Congress to act on a SCOTUS nominee, which is not subject to judicial review.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
I don't see the democrats doing jack sh#t to stop him.

Kalifornians aren't going to see much. All the money is being poured into the swing states.

In any event, trump has some serious challenges. First is the electoral college map. Second, trump has major money problems. He has stated he wouldn't self finance in a general election, and donors are alienated by his conduct and his unelectability. Also, he is severely understaffed. I posted an article last week that states trump has a staff of something like 70 people. Hillary has over 700--and growing--and more facilities. Time is short to get a national campaign ready. Finally, party loyalty is deep. It is unclear if trump can attract many non-republicans. Even if Hillary can't attract voters outside her party, democrats outnumber republicans, and many groups he has insulted are motivated.

Breathe deeply and peacefully. The trumpacolypse is not yet at hand.

Edit: and despite what klimmer says, there is no evidence that Jesus is wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
We now return control of this thread to it's original purpose, discussing the real university "Trump U".

"Based upon my personal experience and employment, I believe that Trump University was a fraudulent scheme, and that it preyed upon the elderly and uneducated to separate them from their money," Ronald Schnackenberg, a Trump University sales manager from 2006-2007, said in his testimony.


Has anyone testified as to the cost of attending the T.U. vs say UCLA, UC Merced or Southwestern [Junior] College?

{}[]{}[}&^# 2()



40 Dead Tiger Cubs Found In Freezer At Thai Buddhist Temple

French Dave certainly looks Buddhist even when attempting a disguise. Anybody checked his papers yet. Maybe Trump can send one of his Salesreps to Thailand.




http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/01/480267008/40-dead-tiger-cubs-found-in-freezer-at-thai-buddhist-temple
Norton

Social climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
What part of "we don't unload 500 million in negative advertising until after the conventions" do we have trouble understanding?
+
damn, I gotta remember that a large portion of the population digs the emotion of being negative more than values how little effort it takes to be unbiased and factually correct prior to blurting bullsh!t
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
dirtbag posted
Second, trump has major money problems. He has stated he wouldn't self finance in a general election, and donors are alienated by his conduct and his unelectability.

He's not going to self finance sh#t. And Obama/Sanders have shown quite clearly that just because the millionaire donor class isn't dropping big dollars doesn't mean much anymore. Lastly, the most expensive form of advertising is television which Trump is an expert at dominating for free.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 1, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
It is important to note that the executive actions are subject to judicial review. You really should be more worried about the unconstitutional refusal of Congress to act on a SCOTUS nominee, which is not subject to judicial review.

Well put.

This President, unlike his predecessors, has initiated numerous executive actions that lie far outside the permissible bounds.

Please be clear. You have appealed to emotion without elucidating an argument.

When It Comes To Abuse Of Presidential Power, Obama Is A Mere Piker
http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardsalsman/2013/01/28/when-it-comes-to-abuse-of-presidential-power-obama-is-a-mere-piker/#195ac92a601a

The Use and Abuse of Executive Orders and Other Presidential Directives
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/02/the-use-and-abuse-of-executive-orders-and-other-presidential-directives
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 1, 2016 - 12:40pm PT






















nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
^^^

or his short little fingers in


The assault on Drumpf's walk-in closet of skeletons (that's a good one!) won't begin until after Hillary and Bernie are done with each other. And the media is only beginning. Drumpf Drumpf Drumpf 24/7. They make millions and don't give a sh#t about the content. They laid off to get him in position to tear him down and take it all the way to the bank.

Let the good times roll.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 1, 2016 - 01:02pm PT
I dunno, dirt....the Dems have a long and established history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, no matter how implausible the realities of the moment might be.

Bush II seemed like easy pickins, too, with plenty of ways to nuke him...and yet the Dems did a horrible job of taking advantage of that and going for the jugular, like they could have. Result? The unthinkable happened.

I'm not filling out my Canada papers or anything, but I also don't trust Dems to do the most logical, obvious thing sometimes.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
DMT: I don't think many people are relying on the media to take him down. It is just refreshing to see them do their jobs, for once.

I dunno, dirt....the Dems have a long and established history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, no matter how implausible the realities of the moment might be.

I'm not setting aside a bottle of champagne for January 2017 just yet, but right now, Hillary should feel a lot more comfortable than trump.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
Nobody should feel comfortable about this.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
well DMT does have a point. if the Dems are relying on the media to take Drumpf down it's a bad plan. They couldn't give a sh#t if he's elected or knot. they just want the ratings and any dirt on Drumpf is good for their pocketbooks.

But to his point as to why Shrub didn't get taken out - they lacked one thing: A Grade-A Bitch ;-) (and I say that in the nicest way - I truly enjoyed here 12 hours of BENGHAZI!!!!! testimony)
dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
Nobody should feel comfortable about this.

Ok, fine, I agree with that, but the basic point is that she is in a much better position than he is.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 1, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
Same same.... the second time Shrub was elected I was looking for real estate in Chile.

Then after Barry rose to power, I realized it doesn't matter a bit who's reading the teleprompter. The course of this empire is already determined.

Norton

Social climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 01:46pm PT
Then after Barry rose to power, I realized it doesn't matter a bit who's reading the teleprompter. The course of this empire is already determined.


hopefully fear will help me out with this one

why do you use President Obamas' high school friend's nickname of him?

did you go to school with him, do have you a problem pronouncing Barack or Obama?

or is this some kind of wink wink insider I know something few know that I am proud of knowing, thing?
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jun 1, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
This President, unlike his predecessors, has initiated numerous executive actions that lie far outside the permissible bounds.

Where was your outrage when Reagan took executive action to prevent deportation of Nicaraguans? Or when Bush Sr limited deportations of Chinese and Kuwatis? Bush Jr took executive action to limit deportations of Salvadoreans, and ordered prosecutorial discretion in the deportation of nursing mothers and US military veterans. Are you equally upset that Obama isn't sending DEA strike teams into state-legalized pot shops?

Next time you pass a speed trap at 1mph over the speed limit, please express your outrage towards the local mayor, police chief, attorney general and governor of your state for their "unconstitutional" actions in not prosecuting you to the fullest extent of the law.

Permissible bounds? What a joke! Any executive action, or for that matter any law passed by congress and signed by the President is by definition constitutional right up until the moment a court strikes it down as being otherwise. You're entitled to your views on the matter, but only the courts can make that decision.

TE
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
Just for the sake of enjoyment and/or argument, suppose Trump loses (I'd bet $.45 on it, my limit).

You think his tirades are entertaining now, you ain't heard nothing yet. Will he immediately begin his 2020 campaign in which he may or may not participate and/or self finance.


Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 1, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
why do you use President Obamas' high school friend's nickname of him?

Because that's the the way things are going, Norton. We went from calling president's by their names, Franklin, for instance, then calling them by their diminutives, Bill instead of William, now we don't even use their last names, Bernie for example.

If FDR was running today he'd be called Frankie. Not that he'd be electable in the media age. Can you imagine the consumers of today voting for this couple:
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 1, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."


"Then you should say what you mean," the March Hare went on.
"I do, " Alice hastily replied; "at least I mean what I say, that's the same thing, you know."
"Not the same thing a bit!" said the Hatter. "Why, you might just as well say that "I see what I eat" is the same thing as "I eat what I see!"

Alice in Wonderland; it's where we are............
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 1, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
Nobody should feel comfortable about this

F*#k off!

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 1, 2016 - 02:21pm PT
I love how liberals all threaten to move to Canada if their liberal politician is not elected. They act like a spoiled child who's love of America is conditional on them "getting their way"! The rest of us love our country for better or worse. When worse we are prepared to sacrifice and fight for improvement whether it means hard work or even putting our life on the line to protect it.
These liberals loyalty and bond to our country is nothing if they are prepared to run at the first sign of adversity or have a tantrum threatening to do so like a child - that is certainly NOT what makes America great again!

pyro!
dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
Tough guy trump "kicking ass" just as pyro likes to see:


Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 1, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
Interesting comment pyro, after eight years of Obama Denial Syndrome from the Repubs.

By the way, it's pretty fkn hard to move to another country unless you have lots of dough or are a doctor.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 1, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
Yep. There is always a clique of sad little wannabes following the school yard bully around telling him b*tchin' he is, tiny hands and all.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 1, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
Nobody's moving. It's all talk, just like Drumpf.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
Klimmer, if Donald offers you Kool aid, don't drink it.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 1, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
Trump's art of the deal - Dispute your bills

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump-bills-specialrepor-idUSKCN0T214Q20151113
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 04:17pm PT
Now I would usually not display anything like this, even if it's true, but, for the sake of completeness. I 'truthfully' do not know if this is Republican, Democrat, or Independent sheeit. I bet Trump can identify it though.

http://www.adweek.com/agencyspy/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2016/02/10844117_223123254696371_1286319056_n.jpg
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 1, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
You people are disgusting
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 1, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
Trump University

A totally deceitful scam Trump used to enrich himself.

Trump promised you riches and "success" if you took his University Classes...

and what did they Get?
They got the sting of being Burned by a con man,
that has now scammed the Republican Party to elect him President
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 1, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
Guess who's going to see Trump tomorrow night in San Jose?

I got an extra ticket too!! Anybody wanna go? SJ Convention Center 7pm.

Trump protest scheduled at Caesar Chavez park 4pm.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
You people are disgusting

Do you say that to Trump?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 05:21pm PT
Cool, bluering!

Maybe you can see him do this:



What a he-man!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 1, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
Dingus, I'm going because I support Trump. And it should be an interesting event.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
blue, do you know the story behind that picture dirt posted?

Does it make any difference to you, as a Christian, that a potential POTUS would do that?

What if Obama had done this? Do you think you (& Republicans in general) would be indifferent?
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
Bluering, I thought you were a Christian.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:07pm PT
how could any reasonable American adult "support" this man who did everything he could to get out of "serving his country"

those of us who did serve think he is a piece of sh!t and coward


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
Bluering, I thought you were a Christian.


Yeah, me too.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
http://www.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us06012016_Ugb28vf.pdf
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
Hmmm. Interesting response.

Christian or no...do you think Trumps actions and commentary were appropriate for a POTUS?

(Hell...for that matter...a human being?)
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
From 10b's link:

"Trump may be the guy voters want flipping burgers in the backyard and flipping companies in the board room, but when it comes to making deals in DC and stepping up to confront an international crisis, voters want Hillary Clinton in the Oval Office,” Malloy said."
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
What great success has Trump ever produced other than "Smoke and Mirrors"

It's all bluster and bloviating.

Trump University is just a symbol of what Trump represents

He can produce any scam he needs to further enrich himself

Troops of conned and scammed supporters of Trump signing up for another con that "is for real"

There is no way in hell he can win, he has lost every demographic other than the small percentage of fear mongering Fascists, like our loyal ST Trump supporters.

Big promises, No promises delivered, just more excuses and whining
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
Read 10b's Quinnipac poll, Craig.

It's absolutely ridiculous and appalling that poll results like that are so close given what Trump has said, done, and represents....

But the fact is this is a narrow race that should not be taken for granted. Hillary needs to go hard, fast & unrelenting on Trump. Complacency & softballs is what he's expecting from the Dems, and will doom us.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 1, 2016 - 06:52pm PT
Trump. The world awaits.
Arrogant, spiteful bully.
Truth? No, all bullsh#t.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 1, 2016 - 07:05pm PT
All Poles are meaningless Now
disregard all the POLES

wait until October

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 1, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
It's not Trump I fear. It's all his supporters who are as screwed up as he is. He'll be gone after November, but the others will be here among us.

I know, huh! What's even scarier, brah, is they've been among us for so long. Scary shit!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 1, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
If the media was doing their job this clown would be vacationing in Florida instead of infected the country. No question Hillary is held to a different standard.

If The Media Treated Trump Like Other Candidates, Yesterday Would Have Ended His Campaign
Pretend Hillary Clinton had a day like Trump did. Now think about how the press would cover it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2016/06/01/donald-trump-media_n_10243620.html
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 1, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
In general, at this point in the process & given the choices, I'd agree with you Craig.

But the fact that Trump is running this strongly in spite of all the SH#T that spews from his craw, and that Dems are still not united....

Don't take this for granted. Dems have a long history of this, to our detriment.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 1, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
Imagine Trump in the White House rather than John Kennedy in 1962.











crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 1, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
Apogee, the Dems still have a primary race going on. The uniting thing comes after.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 1, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
I'm just saying take nothing for granted.

Complacency is our downfall.

I'm a Dodger fan. I know of which I speak!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 1, 2016 - 07:41pm PT
Not only do I worry about Trump

I have bigger worries about Congress
Since the presidential race is such a mess, the big donors will focus on the Congress.

And what does the big money do?
Run smear campaigns on the opposition, along with other deceitful lies and misinformation.

Vote out the obstructionist Republican Congress
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
crankster - the press is doing their job. they are hyping this as#@&%e to get him prop'd to where he is. and now it's time to tear him down all for the ratings. they could give a ratts ass about anything other than their bottom line.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
uh.. smoking duck. this is the Drumpf thread. please either correct your comment or take it elsewhere. Drumpf or hillary it's the same. Just a different planet-perspective.

and for that matter can the damn sharks quit hitting some much dam iron!

Edit:

oh wait oh wait I see what you did!

The press bottom line is to brainwash the stoopid Hillary loons to vote for her and slander everyone else.

exactly! Since the Drumpf supporters are long and gone brainwashed why bother! Move on to the next group of stupid XXXX's!

Brilliant! Need a light?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
Scratching my head, Craig. Poles? Ah, I understand, they can't vote!!

Seriously, the Democrats don't seem to be able to attack like the Repubs do. This needs to change. Obama had the Repubs on the ropes several time and then just folded his hand. I don't understand that. Democrats like to throw it away, but this time they need to get real. I gave money to Bernie, I like the guy, I agree with a lot of what he says, but the time has come to give it up and support Hillary. My ideal outcome? Hillary and Bernie for VP. That or Warren, who does know how to attack and scares the sh#t out of Trump.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
The brainwashed Harding wine drunk then repeats all his cesspool garbage here again.

Don't be bashing Warren Harding, Duck! His FA on Teapot Dome is a classic!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
PGA moves the World Golf Championship from Trump's course in Florida because no sponsor wants to touch this bigoted fool. Where to? Mexico!!

Too funny! Let's celebrate with glass of wine.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:31pm PT
That is pretty damn funny, crankster.

I'm gonna celebrate with a nice red blend....you?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 1, 2016 - 08:50pm PT
TRUMP - - - Reality Removal Machine


[Click to View YouTube Video]
(the music begins at 0:50)



Check this one

Fell for the red party
Because Trump was there, oh-ho-ho
An orange-faced man
He got me in fear, yeah, yeah, yeah
He said he would do all those evil things to them for me
You know what I mean, boy
Do all those evil things to them for me, yeah

Trump's a reality remover; reality removal machine
Trump's a short-fingered rabble rouser; reality removal machine

Baby baby baby baby baby, Trump crawled out of hell
Yesterday, Trump blew my mind, oh yeah
Having trouble with his policies
Upside down, psychotic reactionary

Trump's a reality remover; reality removal machine
Trump's a reality remover; reality removal machine
Trump's a reality remover; reality removal machine
Trump's a reality remover; reality removal machine



Trump's a reality remover; reality removal machine
Trump's a reality remover; reality removal machine
Trump's a reality remover; reality removal machine
Trump's a reality remover; reality removal machine


Look out
Look out, here he comes
Look out, here he comes
Look out, here he comes
Look out, here he comes

Trump is going to break it, baby
Trump is going to break it, baby
Trump is going to break it, baby
Trump is going to break it, baby
Ow, ow, ow
Ow, ow, ow
Oh, nooooooo



MisterE

Gym climber
Small Town with a Big Back Yard
Jun 1, 2016 - 09:00pm PT
Those who refuse understanding

the lessons History provides

are doomed to repeat them...

or something like that.

Watching Rome burn X1000

would be an interesting

way to die.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 2, 2016 - 04:40am PT
Wow! You want to elect a criminal. G-d help our country.


Indeed.








HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:05am PT
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:14am PT
That poor girl has been reading klimmer's posts...
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:31am PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 2, 2016 - 06:03am PT
The state of American politics.

"Doubts are creeping in among opinion pollsters over how accurately they will be able to predict a presidential election between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

The two prospective nominees' high unfavorable ratings, and their fame, means pollsters are facing one of their most difficult tasks in conducting polls that correctly model who will vote in November's election.

As many people are likely to come to the polls this fall to vote against the candidate they dislike as to vote for a candidate they support - something that makes polling difficult.

"We are looking at...the most disliked candidates in a single election," said Jennifer Dineen, a University of Connecticut polling expert who is also the director of the UConn/Hartford Courant poll.
As a pollster, "you're not determining who's supporting a candidate, you are trying to determine how strongly someone opposes a candidate," she added.

"People's feelings on [Trump] are pretty clear, but we are not just trying to estimate support for Secretary Clinton, we are estimating opposition to him."
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 2, 2016 - 06:11am PT
Klimmer, why do you have so much concern about other's sexuality? Your constant comments about Hillary being a lesbian are a really a sign of your own sexual insecurity. You've told us how buff you are, how girls half your age keep hitting on you, how you 'joke' that your daughter is your girl friend ........ Insecurity much?

I doubt Hillary is lesbian, but even if she was, what business is it of yours? It's interesting how people project their own faults on others; for example, my ex-wife accused me of hiding money during our divorce, but she was the one who stole. It's odd Klimmer.

Edited to add: Here is a nice picture of a woman who is obviously enjoying meeting two little girls. One of the kids is crying because of all the cameras and attention. Hillary's smile is genuine and she looks to be taking honest pleasure in the encounter, as is the sound man behind her. Then you throw in some stupid thing about the little girl having a lesbian fear attack, That's sick.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 2, 2016 - 06:12am PT
"He speaks the way we think".

Just heard a woman say that who was being interviewed at the Trump rally of white nationalist in Sacramento yesterday.

'Nuff said.

Klimmer, if there were a god I'd be praying for your soul because that would mean there was also a hell where you would certainly burn in eternity. But, luckily, it's all just made up stuff and you'll just walk among us for a lifetime as a clueless fool.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 2, 2016 - 06:33am PT
I actually got a chuckle over hermit's photo.

The one I posted: not so much.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 2, 2016 - 06:48am PT
Escopeta posted
The state of American politics.

"I'll just be over here throwing stones from a safe distance to maintain the illusion that all my ideas are amazing."


Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:02am PT
Sent by God....http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/01/donald-trump-lawsuits-legal-battles/84995854/
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:21am PT
Too bad you guys won't admit that you have a candidate that mirrors your views (now that Bernie is all but gone)
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:23am PT
But....but....she hasn't forcefully come out in favor of labeling GMOs! SHE'S NO DIFFERENT THAN TRUMP
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:31am PT
ALERT! BREAKING NEWS!!

TRUMP STILL A SELF OBSESSED DICK!!
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:33am PT

Trump - Refuses to release tax returns

Clinton - Refuses to release Goldman Sachs transcripts
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:48am PT
Exclusive: Trump's 3,500 lawsuits unprecedented for a presidential nominee
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/01/donald-trump-lawsuits-legal-battles/84995854/

3500 lawsuits!!!!

And you call Hillary Corrupt?

We can change the definition of Trump into "a Corrupt Con Artist"

and he conned the Republicans into making him President.

what a bunch of gullible suckers they are

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:48am PT
Moose, what about the current Poles!!!
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:50am PT
About to crawl back into bed after two minutes of that video....zzzzzzzzz
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:57am PT
Pyro, its happening.... ^^^^^


Craig Fry already gave up and conceded.
and he conned the Republicans into making him President.


LOL VVVVVV
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 2, 2016 - 08:21am PT
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 2, 2016 - 08:46am PT
Excellent, Mark. Puts matters in perspective.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 2, 2016 - 10:46am PT
If the media was doing their job this clown would be vacationing in Florida instead of infected the country. No question Hillary is held to a different standard.

I think in the primary, the media hold Trump to a different standard, namely none. Now that Trump is the presumptive nominee, watch the negative facts come forward.

Hillary is held to a different standard, too. She gets to dodge tough questions.

John
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 2, 2016 - 10:55am PT
Its funny how some of you think that facts hold any importance in the conversation or election.....

Trump has figured out that they simply do not matter at all and Hillary is pissed because she thought she was the only one that knew it.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 2, 2016 - 11:09am PT
"Its funny how some of you think that facts hold any importance in the conversation or election....."

Funny how you never try to find out about facts.

Not even close on the lies...Trump is king, Carly is queen, both republicans who play to their dumb-downed base.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/opinion/campaign-stops/all-politicians-lie-some-lie-more-than-others.html?_r=0
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jun 2, 2016 - 11:19am PT
Trump called off debate with Bernie due to small hands. Palin suggested that he could by righting down the answers when asked about foreign policy or anything. Trump advisers were running around thinking what else he could use so he backed off.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 2, 2016 - 11:30am PT
Escopeta posted
Its funny how some of you think that facts hold any importance in this forum

FTFY







Conversations actual Republicans are having.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 2, 2016 - 11:47am PT
"The Hispanics" love Trump: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/us/politics/rnc-trump-ruth-guerra.html

The head of Hispanic media relations at the Republican National Committee is resigning this month in what appears to be another indication of the lingering discomfort some party officials have about working to elect Donald J. Trump president.

Ruth Guerra, who is of Mexican descent and was in charge of carrying the party’s message to Hispanic voters, is joining the American Action Network, a Republican-aligned “super PAC,” she confirmed in a brief interview on Wednesday.

The American Action Network is expected to spend millions on congressional races, and the new job is in essence a promotion, one co-worker said.

But Ms. Guerra told colleagues this year that she was uncomfortable working for Mr. Trump, according two R.N.C. aides who requested anonymity to speak candidly about the difficulties surrounding the party’s presumptive standard-bearer.

It is relatively rare for party staff members to leave the national committee in the midst of a presidential campaign unless they are going to work directly for the nominee.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 2, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
politicians can all cuck off
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 2, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
Anonymous (A) - Media (M)

A: Trump left his kid in a hot SUV in which he died.

M: Do you have evidence of that?

A: Of course, it's all well documented on the internet.

M: Where?

A: On the internet. There are several sites, some even have photos.

M: Where?

A: I've already answered that.

M: Did the FBI investigate it?

A: Of course they did, but Bush squelched the report for a contribution.

M: Is there documentation of that?

A: Of course, but it's under seal.

M: How did you obtain this information then?

A: That's under seal. I cannot reveal it.


.
.
.

Four hours later.

A: OK. Look here http://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-selection-begins-case-accusing-georgia-dad-murder/story?id=38307084



survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 2, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
Drumpf just got a serious spanking from Hillary in her San Diego speech.

Wow, someone thoughtful, calm, serious and intelligent. How refreshing.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 2, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
He's had a very bad week. TU is going to be a major problem for him, and welching on his pledge to give a million to vets doesn't help either.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jun 2, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
I don't think Trump's transition from the clown car primary side/shit show to the main stage is going to be smooth.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 2, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
"Wow, someone thoughtful, calm, serious and intelligent. How refreshing."


Just like Obama. :-) he has done an amazing job under dire circumstances.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 2, 2016 - 03:27pm PT
Trumps 1987 Rant Against Ronald Reagan

I wonder how much Drumptf's wealth has increased since 1987. We will never know because he will never release his tax records.

Donald Trump was up at a podium, saying that America had gone weak and was headed for disaster.
“We don’t have tough people. We have nice people,” Trump said. “But I’m tired of nice people, already. I mean, too much.”
But this was not 2016 and Trump was not talking about President Obama.

This was 1987 and Trump was denouncing the course of the country as set by President Reagan, who was famously known for being the nicest of guys.
“I’m tired of nice people already in Washington,” Trump told a Rotary Club gathering at Yoken’s restaurant in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. “Let somebody be in there who doesn’t just smile nicely, who’s not just shaking hands. I want someone in there who knows how to negotiate, because that’s what it’s all about now. And, if the right person isn’t in office, you’re going to see a catastrophe.”
America, he said, was being pushed around and fleeced as it fell ever deeper into debt.
“They’re ripping us off left and right,” he said. “They knock the hell out of the United States. Do they say, ‘Thank you?’ No. Do they like us? Not particularly...”
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 2, 2016 - 03:57pm PT
Hillary Clinton's foreign policy speech was masterful today. That's what a real President looks and sound like. Utterly destroyed him.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 2, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
if someone thinks clinton's san diego speech was a masterful one, i'd suggest they need to re-watch/listen to some of the greats again [roosevelt, kennedy, reagan, even obeezy sometimes: because the delivery of a good speech has nothing to do with whether you agree with what they are saying or not]...

hillary hasn't really changed: she's still stilted and obviously "acting" much of the time, she still comes off mildly to significantly annoyed too often, she still comes off entitled rather than humble, and she just can't help herself but be slightly paternalistically condescending...

BUT...

given the shift in target [away from a however unrealistic "new vision" dem like obama or bernie] towards the buffoonery of trump, her speech did seem presidential... it did seem authoritative... and it even seemed contextually masterful...

it wasn't because she has changed... rather it is because the bar has been lowered to such a limbo level, that even ole hill sounds like a master when put in a context where trump is the only remaining real contender...



i still hope she is funnelling money through her superpacs to his campaign... it would be the most brilliant execution of realpolitik in recent memory and would actually make me completely respect the level of diabolical but perfectly brilliant strategy that she would then bring to bare as president.



because ole hill needs trump... without trump and regardless of her actual/debateable real world and policy skill, she comes off in speeches as a baggage-carrying, annoyed, entitled, double-talking, platitude-speaking bad actor.

with him, she's authoritative, she's presidential, hell she's even masterful.



if hillary wins this thing, she owes trump a card with the following on the inside:

"donald trump... you. complete. me."



none of this bodes well for my bets, but it certainly keeps it entertaining... :)
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
still comes off entitled rather than humble,

Yes, Trump does that......
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:13pm PT
yo, locker:

my using that nickname has to do with my not thinking that obama's speech giving abilities are quite on the level of the other three that i listed... it also has to do with his still being in power and my disrespect for the policies he has continued to advance on a global level, irregardless of my opinion of his domestic policies...

my using that name had nothing to do with skintone, but was rather rooted in a personal opinion and obama's not being relegated to history yet... sorry you seem to have been so offended...

that said, if you think i'm a dipshit because i refuse to respect someone who is still in power who has furthered global policies [the bombing of seven countries, an increase in most often mistargeted drone strikes, the continuation and expansion of surveillance networks and etc.] that are antithetical to the hope and change that he ran on, well then, i'm happy being called a dipshIt.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:21pm PT
Woo-hoO! Heading down to the rally pretty soon. Neighbors kid wants to come. He isn't a fan of Trump but I told him if he's not rude, he can come. I don't wanna get ejected. I think he's 13. Should be awesome for him to see.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
Woo-hoO! Heading down to the rally pretty soon


don't get killed
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
But, Blue, I thought you were a Christian....
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
nah locker...

it's all contextual good sir...

the world isn't all black and white... i can respect someone hugely [as i do, in some regards, obama] at the same time that i can disrespect other aspects of them and their policies [as i do, in some regards, obama]... same reason i can poke at hillary at the same time that i think she'd be a better president if the smoothish continuation of this particular socio/politico/economic world, rather than a collapse or complete gridlock, is the goal... i also didn't want to get your fruit of the looms any more twisted...

have a good one, fine sir!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
I'll take pics and report back. Gotta go talk to the neighbors and borrow their son. He'll take pics too, I'm sure.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
i blame george f*#king dubya bush and the dick cheyney. F*#k drumpf and his brown shirt followers. my grandfathers split german skulls and killed vichy french traitors with abandon.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:49pm PT

Jun 2, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
I put "then" in to attract the PC spell crew to give them something to do .....

The crew would have told you it isn't "Who's".


It's "whose".

I would have done it, but I figured it's pointless to tell a duck how things are spelt.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:58pm PT

pretty friggin lame...


lame
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 2, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
Werner, how is 'murica fuked up?


Edit: I agree that it's not perfect, but when were things perfect?
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 2, 2016 - 06:06pm PT
runu?
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jun 2, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
Will Trump Cause Your Heart Attack? Don't Ignore These 4 Signs

Heart Attack Warning

Love him or hate him, The Donald is running for president.

That's stressful no matter who you are.

And stress can cause a fatal heart attack for anyone.

You see, during moments of extreme stress researchers have found that hormones in your body can cause plaque deposits in your heart to break loose and trigger a heart attack.

In fact, there are 4 terrifying things that happen right before your heart attack you need to know about.

[1] Feeling of anxiety and impending doom
[2] Short of breath
[3] Sucking wind and a good chance you will vomit all over yourself
[4] You will feel like an elephant is sitting on your chest and there’s no chance in the world it’s getting up anytime soon.


And all the while your mind will be racing. Your thoughts will switch back and forth between How did I let this happen?

If Trump did get in if you don’t die from a heart attack the other option is


Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
Yes, but to be sort of a dik ........

In American English, spelt primarily refers to the hardy wheat grown mostly in Europe, and the verb spell makes spelled in the past tense and as a past participle. In all other main varieties of English, spelt and spelled both work as the past tense and past participle of spell, at least where spell means to form words letter by letter or (with out) to make clear. Outside the U.S., the two forms are interchangeable in these uses, and both are common.

Sorry, I guess I'm bored, dinner is almost ready and the wife just brought me a glass of wine (that I made).
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
but I figured it's pointless to tell a duck how things are spelt.


That's because spelt is what you feed to the duck.




It's ironic and absurd that the Republicans rant and rave about the need for personal freedom, but then the official party line is to coerce their members into conformance against their will.

It's about the same as when they say they don't want government interfering with business, unless it's going into a restroom to do your personal biological business.

F*#ktards is too light of a word to describe them.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
Klimmer

Are in any way related to Trump, maybe a cousin or distant one; you guys talk the same, nothing new, same crap, read from the same sources still spewing rightwing propaganda sources like National Enquire, just attack, lie, no solutions just repetitions. Trump baby conspiracy about Supreme Court Scalia might have been murdered, Egyptian plane BLOWN out of the sky.

We already know about Hillary seem you can’t add anything new news about her.

You teach High School science making you having the same a High School education and nothing more, just went to a junior college to get a teaching degree barely passed and that’s it. Never to move on to a higher education.

“How Trump Would Weaken America”

Joseph S. Nye, Jr., a former US assistant secretary of defense and chairman of the US National Intelligence Council, is University Professor at Harvard University. He is the author of Is the American Century Over?

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/how-trump-weakens-america-by-joseph-s--nye-2016-05

“Donald the Destroyer”

Simon Johnson, a former chief economist of the IMF, is a professor at MIT Sloan, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics,

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/trump-threat-global-prosperity-security-by-simon-johnson-2016-05

*note: read Anti-Trade America? That goes with the article.

“Trump’s Media Enablers”

Kent Harrington, a former senior CIA analyst, was National Intelligence Officer for East Asia and Chief of Station in Asia, and served as the CIA’s Director of Public Affairs

Klimmer just read one, I know it will not change your thinking but are the above/below articles gods laws?


“The Donald Trump Show”
https://www.project-syndicate.org/focal-points/donald-trump-an-american-horror-story

It’s Not Gonna Be Great,
Preparing for President Trump
Trumping the Dollar
The Donald Trump of North Korea
Trump’s Dangerous America First Campaign
Why Trump?
Donald Trump’s Message
The State of the United States
From Tolstoy to Trump
The World According to Trump
Ancient Rome’s Donald Trump
Is Fascism Back?

Project Syndicate provides readers with original, engaging, and thought-provoking commentaries by global leaders and thinkers. By offering incisive perspectives from those who are shaping the world’s economics, politics, science, and culture, Project Syndicate has created an unrivaled global venue for informed public debate.

A simple credo: All people – wherever they live, whatever their income, and whatever language they use – deserve equal access to a broad range of views by the world’s foremost leaders and thinkers on the issues, events, and forces shaping their lives.

45 Nobel Laureates and 111 heads of state contribute to this cause.

You wouldn’t fit in Klimmer these people think.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
^^


When your main source of information is served with the lunch bill.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:22pm PT
Every living entity thinks

A virus thinks, and it's not even alive.



El Capitan is a living, breathing organism with a sophisticated internal circulatory system, and it has the ability to think. As long as you treat El Capitan with respect, it will not become angry and dislodge you from its surface.

Most of the time, that is.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:26pm PT
California is the cereal bowl of the nation:

Fruits, nuts and flakes.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jun 2, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
Yes! you are right WB even DARPA thinks, IARPA, SAIC, NSA thinks problem they control us even you.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jun 2, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
" [,even obeezy"...

I used to get riled when people denigrated our president with silly names, but then I realized that Pres. Obama probably couldn't care less. He knows that the tiny people with underdeveloped frontal lobes and insufficient education don't and never will matter in the big picture. He's got two terms as president, a loving wife and kids and a Nobel Peace Prize as evidence he's doing the right thing.

These little gnats that fly around getting in people's eyes and ears are just immature, unimaginative, jealous haters who can't make a positive contibution to the world and will ultimately be relegated to the dung heap of history, if they even get that much recognition.

E.g: "I mean, why are there even apes if evolution is real?" A quote from the conservative brain trust that is Limbaugh...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 2, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
Oh the Nobel Prize is evidence that he is doing the right thing? Really?

If that's true and history is our guide, then Tim McVeigh should start sharpening up his Nobel Prize acceptance speech.

Good grief.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jun 2, 2016 - 08:33pm PT
Good grief.. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, bzzzzzzzzzzzzz, zzzzzzzzzzz...
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 2, 2016 - 08:35pm PT
Good grief indeed, Esco, good grief indeed.

But, we know you just want the rise. Feel good? Lame.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 2, 2016 - 08:45pm PT
Some of you retards need to brush up on your history.

You might start by looking up what Menachem Begin was up to around 5 years before he won the Nobel PEACE Prize.

No wonder you people vote for Trump or Hillary, weak minds are easily won.

Even the picture looks similar. There were women and children in there too....

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 2, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
Sweet! Good event at the Trump rally. Pretty tame protestors, mostly. A lot of "F*#k Trumps" being shouted at walkers by, but no confrontations I saw.

I did get video of 3 "hispanic" individuals in front of me who eventually were escorted out for having a sign too big. Smuggled in past the secret service security dudes at the metal detectors. They had TSA too! Doing all the pocket searches of metallic items.

Let me up load the pics I have. We did get funneled into the protestors for a bit, there was confusion as to which entrance to use.







fun event



Norton

Social climber
Jun 2, 2016 - 08:53pm PT

I served, and this kind of coward sh!t angers people like me


10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 2, 2016 - 08:53pm PT
I heard some of trumps speech. Once again no substance. He spent most of the time telling us how great he is, how much he loves everyone. As I said no substance.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 2, 2016 - 09:29pm PT
Skeptimistic...

wow! all of that from the use of an innocuous [to me] nickname... i can honestly say i had no idea that calling the pres of the u.s. by a nickname would make a person a "little gnat that flies around getting in people's eyes and ears [and is just an] immature, unimaginative, jealous hater who can't make a positive contibution to the world and will ultimately be relegated to the dung heap of history"

good to know... i'll keep that in mind, next time i try to make a nuanced argument, so that you [and others] don't get triggered again...

sure did step on a mine with that one... first locker, now you... sheesh...



one final note: if you think a nobel peace prize eight months into eight years of a presidency negates this, this, this, and etc...

well, you should probably check a mirror before you start slinging invective filled with "little gnat, underdeveloped frontal lobe, insufficient education and etc"... especially when it's about people you've never met, nor know anything about...



but by all means, i have no intention of getting in your way, so if you continue to feel that all of what you wrote was true... well... carry on then...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 2, 2016 - 10:06pm PT
No wonder you people vote for Trump or Hillary, weak minds are easily won.


Care to share who you'll be voting for, or endorsing? Us weak minds wanna know.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 2, 2016 - 10:10pm PT
The only thing on display at a Trump rally is ignorance. And a bunch a gullible, disaffected white people.

Five more months of this clown.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 2, 2016 - 10:34pm PT
Five more months of this clown

Time - that's his biggest enemy. The more of it he has to hang himself the better. He'd win for sure if the election were tomorrow or if he could largely keep his mouth shut between now and November. Instead I'm pretty sure the 'The Shroud of Palin' will claim him well before then.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 3, 2016 - 12:03am PT

Jun 2, 2016 - 06:36pm PT
"I figured it's pointless to tell a duck how things are spelt."

+1 for the intent


Haha


Kinda Scarey, huh?
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:06am PT
sure did step on a mine with that one... first locker, now you... sheesh...

Might want to get some collagen treatments for your thin skin my friend.

Yes, President Obama won a Nobel Peace Prize; something which he was secretly nominated for and which he had no influence over. An honor that has been bestowed upon only 4 presidents, 3 of which were Democrats (Roosevelt would likely be branded a socialist in the current era). Pretty sure none of the Republicans over the last 60 years made the short list- too busy invading countries & all. I think it's a safe bet Trump won't even be on the radar.

I know you conservative types like to think that the policies & philosophies you try and force the rest of the world to adhere to are the only way this planet will survive the next few minutes, but based on your track record of war-mongering, hateful exclusion of non- white, non-male minorites and insistance that the downtrodden of society not get any assistance to try and make their lives better, I beg to differ.

Now back to your regularly scheduled buzzing...
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:54am PT


http://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/best-run-states-are-heavily-republican-study-finds/
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 06:14am PT
Haha, pyro. So you're headline is "Republican states prioritize cash flow over serving their citizens." Your "best run" criteria is solely fiscal health, not based on actually providing services, protecting rights or doing any of the things governments are created to do.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 3, 2016 - 06:21am PT
**The 224 People, Places and Things Donald
Trump Has Insulted on Twitter: A Complete List**
http://nyti.ms/1PWpSUr
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 3, 2016 - 06:27am PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:10am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:17am PT
http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/natalie-gulbis-donald-trump-i-know

Looks like not all women dislike Trump,
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:22am PT
She is a golfer
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:28am PT
So is Trump
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:30am PT
dude looks like he is busting out the chicken dance
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:38am PT
Its gonna be awesome.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:44am PT
Lots of heads exploding on supertopo, it is goin to be entertaining. SNL is going to be ridiculous
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:47am PT
Stacy Dash likes Trump, and she's a highly respected comedic actress!
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:52am PT
From yesterdays protesters. I think if I owned commercial property in Cleveland or Pittsburgh, I would be having my windows measured for plywood.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:55am PT
I'm pretty sure this is all a move by both those cities to qualify for disaster aid and rebuild their infrastructure.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:56am PT
http://www.texastribune.org/2016/06/02/abbott-trump-u/


In Texas, Trump U Shut Down After State Scrutiny

Long before Trump University fell in the crosshairs of Democratic presidential frontrunner Hillary Clinton, one of Donald Trump's fellow Republicans drew a bead on the now-defunct school: Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.

Abbott, then the state's attorney general, opened an investigation into the real-estate seminar business in 2010 raising many of the issues now reverberating in the white-hot race for the White House. Trump University ultimately closed up shop in Texas, leaving in its wake an untold number of people like Steven Branton of Mesquite — former students who were enticed by the Trump brand, only to discover a program wrought with high-pressure sales tactics and unfulfilled promises.

"It was just nonsense — I don't know how else to say it," Branton said, recalling how one of the seminars he went to seemed to take advantage of attendees who were not as financially able to afford them as he was at the time. "There were people in that room — I guarantee you, they were talking about giving him everything they had."

Trump has fiercely defended the school against persistent criticisms from Clinton, who said Wednesday the billionaire "is trying to scam America the way he scammed all those people at Trump University." He has said he will prevail in class-action lawsuits against the business and on Thursday took his confidence a step further, pledging to re-open Trump University if he becomes president.

In Texas, the Trump University probe was never fully fleshed out after the school quickly pulled out of the state. But in at least one letter to Trump's attorneys, Abbott's office said it found the promises the school was making to its students "virtually impossible to achieve."

A former deputy chief of Abbott's consumer protection division, John Owens, claims that his bosses nixed a request to sue Trump University for illegal business practices. A memo dated May 11, 2010, and provided to the Tribune and other news organizations, shows that Owens and his colleagues wanted to ask Trump University for a $5.4 million settlement.

"It was swept under the rug, and the consumers were left with no one to go to bat for them," Owens told The Texas Tribune.

"The Texas Attorney General's office investigated Trump U, and its demands were met — Trump U was forced out of Texas and consumers were protected," responded Abbott spokesman Matt Hirsch.

More than three years after Trump University effectively ceased operations in Texas, Trump made two contributions to Abbott's gubernatorial campaign, one for $25,000 in July 2013 and the other for $10,000 in May 2014. To this day, the donations to Abbott represent Trump's only substantial foray into Texas politics — and enduring fodder for Abbott critics like the state Democratic Party, which charged Thursday that the governor is "on the corrupt Trump payroll."

I'm guessing you really have to be blowing it to get shut down in Texas.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:58am PT
I'm wondering when Craig Fry is going to put the Bernie protesters and far left nutjobs on the list of "Murica's biggest threat".

Holy Crap - did you read that thing JD posted. That is AWESOME. Unbelievable. These left nutjobs are dangerous I tell you....DANGEROUS. Lol.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:05am PT
The Daily Caller is a politically conservative[2][3] news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C.. It was founded by Tucker Carlson, a libertarian conservative[4][5] political pundit, and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:12am PT
HighDesertDJ posted
Haha, pyro. So you're headline is "Republican states prioritize cash flow over serving their citizens." Your "best run" criteria is solely fiscal health, not based on actually providing services, protecting rights or doing any of the things governments are created to do.

DJ,
Is the other side of the coin "Democrat states prioritize ever more benefits above fiscal responsibility"?
Are you implying the fiscally responsible states do not provide services or protect rights?

I think government debt is a big problem that is not being responsibly addressed by politicians or government bureaucrats.
The working middle class and small business will provide for the ultra rich and the free loaders.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:16am PT
By the numbers? Buy the numbers?

According to Mike Atonovich. (2-27-2015 webpage)

The total cost of illegal immigration to Los Angeles County taxpayers alone exceeded $1 billion in 2008. Approximately $200 million is spent on public safety, $400 million for healthcare and $450 million to welfare and food stamps.


Have at it, dudes.

Hint: You might want to look at the costs of this group in relation to the totals. Who is in the totals group? How were the members of each group determined.



http://www.numbersusa.com/content/files/pdf/LACounty.pdf

2010 numbers

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/files/LA2010.doc
dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:19am PT
And now trump is being openly racist, wanting his judge exclude because of his Mexican heriatage:


Mr. Trump said U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel had "an absolute conflict" in presiding over the litigation given that he was "of Mexican heritage" and a member of a Latino lawyers' association. Mr. Trump said the background of the judge, who was born in Indiana to Mexican immigrants, was relevant because of his campaign stance against illegal immigration and his pledge to seal the southern U.S. border. "I'm building a wall. It's an inherent conflict of interest," Mr. Trump said.

Guyman, pyro, bluering, pud: this is your guy. You support a racist.

Are you guys racist, too?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:21am PT
But he's going to build a wall!!!

Wondering if its too late to get into the ladder and shovel industry.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:23am PT
Maybe his Mexican (really, Indianan) judge will pay for it?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:28am PT
Board of Supervisors
County of Los Angeles

MICHAEL D. ANTONOVICH
SUPERVISOR, FIFTH DISTRICTT


2009 CalWORKs FOOD STAMPS CalWORKs + FOOD STAMPS
MONTH TOTAL ILLEGALS TOTAL ILLEGALS TOTAL ILLEGALS
January $82,761,595 $20,837,263 $92,247,354 $21,037,086 $175,008,949 $41,874,349
February $83,451,025 $21,166,749 $93,918,639 $21,540,326 $177,369,664 $42,707,075
March $84,994,290 $21,547,995 $96,232,122 $22,201,424 $181,226,412 $43,749,419
April $86,199,153 $21,734,461 $112,847,791 $25,934,814 $199,046,944 $47,669,275
May $86,420,038 $21,782,246 $114,895,102 $26,141,888 $201, 315,140 $47,924,134
June $87,611,378 $21,906,631 $116,841,880 $26,515,762 $204,453,258 $48,422,393
July $85,296,850 $21,162,630 $119,970,538 $27,045,847 $205,267,388 $48,208,477
August $85,797,283 $21,165,982 $121,171,353 $27,210,260 $206,968,636 $48,376,242
September $87,625,305 $21,404,981 $124,120,851 $27,774,459 $211,746,156 $49,179,440
October $88,481,754 $21,523,049 $126,799,636 $28,346,166 $215,281,390 $49,869,215
November $88,050,522 $21,595,661 $128,169,841 $28,477,064 $216,220,363 $50,072,725
December $89,385,780 $21,918,503 $130,963,355 $29,188,963 $220,349,135 $51,107,466
TOTAL $1,036,074,973 $257,746,151 $1,378,178,462 $311,414,059 $2,414,253,435 $569,160,210

TOTAL vs 'ILLEGALS'
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:30am PT
Larry posted
Are you implying the fiscally responsible states do not provide services or protect rights?

No, I'm saying that bragging that you have a "fiscally healthy" government while you aren't doing those things is bogus. It's like the Audubon Society bragging about being the wealthiest environmental charity. Arizona sold it's capital building a few years back in the name of balancing the budget, leased it form the buyers and then eventually bought it back at a massive profit to the corporation that bought it. A number of the top states on that list have bad school systems, bad health care systems and are riding high on revenue from the energy boom.


dirt posted
Are you guys racist, too?

A purely rhetorical question.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:32am PT
zBrown, who profits from hiring these illegals?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:34am PT
!Righto Gary!

Usually a balance sheet has two sides. Debits and Credits.

Go to the head of the class.

Interestingly one could also ask who profits from the TOTALS-ILLEGALS group.



EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:55am PT
No, I'm saying that bragging that you have a "fiscally healthy" government while you aren't doing those things is bogus.

Where are those things (not being done) addressed? In the linked article? Or maybe the contrast and comparison is made in another article? Or perhaps it's just a red herring.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:57am PT
from The Atlantic

Anti-Trump Protesters Attack Democracy in San Jose

Sync this up with what was on TV and blue's report here^.


Crowd size reported at 1-3 hundred
3-4 four fights between side A and side B

Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:59am PT
HighDesert, thanks for the video debate you posted. It was very interesting and troubling at the same time.

The pro-Trump vet made a number of philosophical/political stands that he proposes to promote the commonly touted idea of America First per Trump.

During the debate the pro-Trump vet disparages his fellow vet on the opposite side of the debate in an ad hominem attack for his single enlistment as opposed to re-enlisting as he had done positioning himself as the true patriot and compares him to Bo Berghdal (excuse me?).

He also claims that Islam is not a religion and then describes the political and sociological contexts of how many Muslims live. If we use his argument as sound, it also makes Christianity and Buddhism not religions based upon their political and sociological contexts of actual practice. It's certainly an arguable position, but only if played guid pro quo.

He also argues that Trump's recent calls to target terrorists families and to execute captured terrorists with bullets dipped in pig blood are good ideas. That and anything that gets the job done.

It is true that war is ugly and people do things that injure their conscience. I am not absolutist on not using lethal force. We blew it in Afghanistan when we held back when we had Bin laden cornered on a mountain in Afghanistan shortly after 9/11. We should have turned the mountain into a gravel pile, said have a nice day,and left.

However, these positions betray laws that we as a country have recognized and promoted and disgrace our principles.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:02am PT
zBrown posted:
TOTAL vs 'ILLEGALS'

Holy crap. Dude, there is absolutely no way in hell that is an actual government document. You have no judgment at all. Thanks for demonstrating how easy it is to appeal to people's biases.


Ed asked
Where are those things (not being done) addressed? In the linked article? Or maybe the contrast and comparison is made in another article? Or perhaps it's just a red herring.

I am challenging the underlying assertion that "best run" means "fiscally stable."
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:05am PT
DJ

It was produced by an L.A. County Supervisor, so yes indeed it is a government document. If you're too stupid to see it's flaws then that's your problem.

I pointed out a number of them, but I'm not going to lead you (all) by the hand.

Ask Herr Braun, maybe he'll take on the task.



HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:07am PT
zBrown posted
It was produced by an L.A. County Supervisor, so yes indeed it is a government document. If you're too stupid to see it's flaws then that's your problem.

Link to the actual source document then on the La County Supervisor's site and not on an illegal immigration hysteria site.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:08am PT
Search it on the internet or contact his office. I'm not babysitting today.



HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:09am PT
You can't. It doesn't exist. The document didn't even have a title. There's no way that the LA County Board of Supervisors lists undocumented workers or illegal aliens as "illegals." It's racist propaganda. GTFO
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:11am PT
You are a dunce. This took one second.

http://michaeldantonovich.com/2013/06/15/children-of-illegal-aliens-in-los-angeles-county-cost-more-than-54-million-per-month/

If it wasn't issued by Mike (and/or) his offcie, give me a link that shows who did.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:15am PT
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/04/us/politics/donald-trump-constitution-power.html?smid=fb-nytpolitics&smtyp=cur&_r=0
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:16am PT


Still waiting for the actual report.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:18am PT
I just love the "protesters" ... throwing stuff, waving flags, and causing trouble.

Only makes a stronger case for the Donald.

Keep it up Dems your doing just fine.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:19am PT
Try clicking on the link to the report on that page, Dingus. A blog post is not a government report.

http://antonovich.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Release-Chart-Cost-of-Illegals.pdf
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:26am PT
This document was reported and reproduced in various SoCal Newspapers

CAll them here.

Contact: Tony Bell, Communications Deputy
Office: (213) 974-5555 Cell: (213) 215-5176





MarkWestman

Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:27am PT
The "best run states" graph shows Alaska as the number 1, the best.

The state, in fact, is so far in debt that the governor just proposed reinstituting a state income tax, cutting more services, and taking some of the PFD (permanent fund dividend) to fill the void. Alaska has for years operated as though oil prices would never fall (and I'm not exactly sure where all the money from years of high oil prices and record profits went). The Republican dominated legislature is resisting these measures, insisting that oil prices will eventually rise again. Which so far does not appear likely to happen soon.

If this is the fiscally "best run state" in the country, well...
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:29am PT
However, a blog can certainly report on an official document.

Call Antonvich and ask for a copy.


Illegal Immigrants Receive $300 Million In Social Services From Los Angeles County
Posted by: KHTS Newsroom in Los Angeles County News, Santa Clarita Latest News July 28, 2015 - 2:25 pm 0 390 Views

Ed. Note: The following press release is courtesy of Mayor Michael D. Antonovich.
Approximately $300 million was spent on social services for families of illegal immigrants during the first half of this year in Los Angeles County, officials said Thursday.
Don’t miss a thing. Get breaking Santa Clarita news alerts delivered right to your inbox.
Mayor Michael D. Antonovich announced that the Department of Public Social Services issued $291 million in welfare and food stamp benefits to illegal immigrant parents for their native-born children during the first six months of 2015.
At this rate, the county will spend nearly $600 million in benefits for illegal immigrants by the end of the year, according to officials.
Approximately $110 million was spent in CalWORKs welfare program and $180 million was spent in CalFresh food stamp program, from Jan. through June, according to officials.
More than 20 percent of the County’s public welfare funds are spent on illegal immigrants. This does not include the $550 million spent on public safety, nearly $500 million on healthcare, and hundreds of millions spent on education, according to officials.
“Illegal immigration continues to cost County taxpayers nearly $2 billion dollars a year and siphons resources away from vital municipal services for legal immigrants and county residents,” said Mayor Antonovich.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:33am PT
zbrown posted
This document was reported and reproduced in various SoCal Newspapers

Link to any of them. If you're going to post data be able to back it up.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:35am PT
I billion a year doesn't seem like much when one considers the cost of keeping fuel in a lawn blower..
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 09:49am PT

One news release is right there in front of you dummy.

llegal Immigrants Receive $300 Million In Social Services From Los Angeles County
**Posted by: KHTS Newsroom in Los Angeles County News, Santa Clarita Latest News July 28, 2015 - 2:25 pm 0 390 Views
**
Ed. Note: The following press release is courtesy of Mayor Michael D. Antonovich.
Approximately $300 million was spent on social services for families of illegal immigrants during the first half of this year in Los Angeles County, officials said Thursday.
Don’t miss a thing. Get breaking Santa Clarita news alerts delivered right to your inbox.
Mayor Michael D. Antonovich announced that the Department of Public Social Services issued $291 million in welfare and food stamp benefits to illegal immigrant parents for their native-born children during the first six months of 2015.
At this rate, the county will spend nearly $600 million in benefits for illegal immigrants by the end of the year, according to officials.
Approximately $110 million was spent in CalWORKs welfare program and $180 million was spent in CalFresh food stamp program, from Jan. through June, according to officials.
More than 20 percent of the County’s public welfare funds are spent on illegal immigrants. This does not include the $550 million spent on public safety, nearly $500 million on healthcare, and hundreds of millions spent on education, according to officials.
“Illegal immigration continues to cost County taxpayers nearly $2 billion dollars a year and siphons resources away from vital municipal services for legal immigrants and county residents,” said Mayor Antonovich.


I'm done. You're apparently claiming the document is fake. Get on the phone and call Mike's office and tell him that.

Over and outa here, you fool..

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 10:11am PT
What part of "link" is that hard for your to understand? It looks like at best a political document, not a government report. Link it. You should have linked it to begin with. Why so much effort going in to not linking it? I'm eager to know, if that was in fact made by the Supervisor, how they identified "illegals" in the data. There is no "I'm an illegal immigrant" card. Did it include children of immigrants who are US citizens?


In any case, missing from that "report" is the amount of money that undocumented immigrants pay in taxes and support the economy. The math is pretty clear so far that immigration brings in far more money than whatever actual benefits are paid out.

The 11 million undocumented immigrants currently living in the United States collectively paid $11.64 billion in state and local taxes.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 10:23am PT
just love the "protesters" ... throwing stuff, waving flags, and causing trouble.

Only makes a stronger case for the Donald.

Keep it up Dems your doing just fine

You don't know they are Hillary supporters. But for the sake of argument, let's assume they are. 99% of Hillary supporters aren't rioting.

In any event, I think the protestors' actions are deplorable and they are responsible for the mayhem.

But words matter. Responsible leaders are careful with their words for a reason. And when you insult Mexicans by calling them "rapists" and disparage other people you are provoking them. Some blame lies with Trump, too. McCain, Romney, the bushes, Reagan and Dole all chose their words very carefully. Very rarely did they elicit this kind of response.

Finally the guy you want to "gamble" on is an open racist, claiming the judge on his Trump University trial should be disqualified because he is Mexican.

Are you a racist too? Do you support this?

Trump's racism, both open and dog whistled, is certain. You are not gambling on whether or not he is racist: he is.

You want to gamble, enroll at trump university 8 years ago. Actually, that wasn't much of a gamble either.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 3, 2016 - 10:24am PT
As long as the argument stays centered around how much money the government can bilk from citizens and non-citizens alike its all good right?

Lol
dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 10:25am PT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 3, 2016 - 10:35am PT
Trump is a master of bilking citizens.

Trump University speaks for itself.

Protesters have a right to assemble and protest. It's one of those little great things about America that The Hair would like to do away with. Totalitarianism always hates dissent. Donald Dick brings this on himself with all his "love" for everyone.

I don't agree with violence or damage to property though.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 10:41am PT
Escopeta posted
I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim I'm a victim
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 3, 2016 - 11:03am PT
Where was the outrage from the Chump supporters when his moron goons were sucker punching peaceful minority protestors while they were restrained? Typical school yard bully stuff.

Oh, that's right, it's only an outrage if you are white.

I don't condone the violent Chump haters, but ease up on the hypocrisy.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 11:24am PT

Ryan is about to have a really, really shitty year.








[Click to View YouTube Video]

Megyn Kelly mad
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jun 3, 2016 - 11:43am PT
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/stephen-hawking-angers-trump-supporters-with-baffling-array-of-long-words

Speaking to a television interviewer in London, Hawking called Trump “a demagogue who seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator,” a statement that many Trump supporters believed was intentionally designed to confuse them.

Moments after Hawking made the remark, Google reported a sharp increase in searches for the terms “demagogue,” “denominator,” and “Stephen Hawking.”

“For a so-called genius, this was an epic fail,” Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, said. “If Professor Hawking wants to do some damage, maybe he should try talking in English next time.”

Later in the day, Hawking attempted to clarify his remark about the presumptive Republican Presidential nominee, telling a reporter, “Trump bad man. Real bad man.”
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 3, 2016 - 11:49am PT
I think Hillary should run her campaign speaking at a college degree level vocabulary.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 11:50am PT
Ryan is about to have a really, really shitty year.

Yeah, and the pile will only deepen considerably.


I wonder if an un-endorsement is plausible?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 3, 2016 - 11:55am PT
Megyn is kinda hot when she's angry and right (at the same time).

She's rarely hot... lol
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
Megyn is beautiful. She's just often been a partisan hack happily defending the status quo. I'm glad to see she's a little woke. Or maybe she just has it out for Trump because he was such a dick to her.


Dingus posted
Ryan showing his true colors. He'd sell his momma for political advantage.

He's in a tough spot. He's the #1 Republican other than Trump. If he doesn't make an effort to unite everything crumbles.


Escopeta posted
I think Hillary should run her campaign speaking at a college degree level vocabulary.

Snob
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 3, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
^^^ and if he does make an effort to unite everything crumbles. no one can explain to me how he's working to unite a party only to turn around and take their corrupt heads off (if he's going to live to that promise). Truth is he's no different than the establishment. he's just conning his legion of dupes to believe that. I caught an uber ride last week while while in LA and right before dropping me off the driver asks who I'm going to vote for. I think I responded with - can we just not have a president for four years? He said Drumpf and then pointed out he's a Muslim. He then later explained Drumpf isn't going to do any of the things he says he is. There will be no banning of Muslims. There will be no wall.

Yes, she's always beautiful. But she's rarely hot.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jun 3, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
I think Hillary should run her campaign speaking at a college degree level vocabulary.

I certainly hope folks don't graduate college with the type of grammar used in the above sentence!

Better to stick with a high-school level vocabulary, more people understand it.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 3, 2016 - 12:45pm PT
or fifth grade vocabulary that drumpf speaks at
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 3, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
Ryan blasts Trump.

I love it.

It's kinda like watching the Warriors play a middle school team.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 3, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
It’s official: The GOP is now the Party of Trump

By Dana Milbank
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/its-official-the-gop-is-now-the-party-of-trump/2016/06/03/5f449ba8-2984-11e6-a3c4-0724e8e24f3f_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-b%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

This very afternoon, the highest-ranking Republican official in the land, House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.), endorsed Trump. Incredibly, one of the justifications cited in Ryan’s reasoning was that he had talked with Trump about “the proper role of the executive.” And Trump learned that the proper role of the executive is . . . to threaten a federal judge in an overtly racist attack?

Republicans had better get used to such jarring juxtapositions, now that the party has embraced a man who traffics in racist politics and conspiracy theories.

Ryan’s salute ends any doubt: The GOP is the Party of Trump. Ryan and his colleagues have bet their future, and that of the Republican Party, on Trump, and they now own what the volatile showman says and does. Ryan, after holding out for a month before embracing Trump, folded without any tangible concession. The speaker says he thinks Trump would support the House Republicans’ agenda. But the reverse is already true: The Republican establishment has, with Ryan’s capitulation, made Trump’s agenda their own.

And what is that agenda? Let’s consider some of the theories Trump has floated — and people such as Ryan are, with their endorsements, now countenancing:

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia was murdered.

Rafael Cruz, Ted’s father, was involved in the JFK assassination.

President Obama’s wedding ring is inscribed “There is no god but Allah.”

Bill Ayers wrote “Dreams From My Father.”

Obama was born “Barry Soetero.”

The Hawaii official who verified Obama’s birth certificate was murdered.

Clinton administration official Vincent Foster’s suicide was really a murder.

A demonstrator who rushed the stage at one of Trump’s rallies has ties to the Islamic State.

The Islamic State pays the cellphone bills of Syrian refugees.

Trump is being persecuted by the Internal Revenue Service because he’s a “strong Christian.

The government has falsified statistics on unemployment, Ebola, refugees, health insurance and immigration.

Global warming is a hoax created by the Chinese.

These were among 58 conspiracy theories tallied up last month by People for the American Way, a liberal group, all documented with links to Trump’s allegations. Better make that 59: Just hours after Ryan’s endorsement, Trump disseminated an accusation on Twitter that Hillary Clinton “killed four Americans in Benghazi.” The list goes on: A U.S. general dipped bullets in pig’s blood to shoot Muslims; Muslims in New Jersey celebrated on 9/11; Obama is a Muslim. All that’s missing from Trump’s ouevre is a theory about Area 51 and fluoridation.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
Well Guyman, here is Hillary condemning attacks on trump supporters:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/clinton-trump-rally-violence-223885


What did trump do with respect to the man who sucker punched an anti-trump protestor a few months ago?


He offered to pay his legal fees.



He later reversed himself, but he did support violence against a peaceful protestor.

But your indignation over supposed Hillary supporters rioting is duly noted, however.

Make no mistake, there is no "gamble" with trump. We know what we are getting.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 3, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
@DMT..

You didn't vote for Rocky Chavez?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 3, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
They shouldn't be referred to as Hillary or Bernie supporters that are protesting the Trump rallies

They are anti-Trump Protesters, to label them for who they Might vote for is completely ridicules, but that's what Repugs do, shift the blame to the Dems.
It's despicable, and we fall for it every time and start making excuses for their bad behavior

Hillary nor Bernie has told anyone to protest, the protesters HATE Trump, it's as simple as that

If the Hitler youth were parading around would you call the protesters of their parade Trump supporters? Hell no

No you would call them anti-Nazi protesters
dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
And now he is doubling down in his racist attacks against the judge in his case:

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/3/11854868/trump-curiel-mexican



Hey republicans: are you sure you don't want a contested convention?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 3, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
Well put, Craig. Most of those people probably don't give a crap about who is running on the democratic side. They just see Drumpf for the POS he is.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 3, 2016 - 02:57pm PT
Redding, California (CNN) Donald Trump sought to tout his support among African-Americans on Friday by pointing out a black man in the crowd and calling him "my African-American."

"Oh, look at my African-American over here. Look at him," Trump said. "Are you the greatest?"

Did anyone at the Redding white nationalists rally really see his African-American?
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 3, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
Forwards From Uncle Donald
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Megyn Kelly on Trump calling out Judge Curio in Trump U case
[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
Did anyone at the Redding white nationalists rally really see his African-American?

My first thought was "you're making this sh#t up," but this is Donald after all, and he probably believes "my African Americans" will vote for him in droves, just like "the Hispanics" will.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 3, 2016 - 03:20pm PT
Sad but true, dirt.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/03/politics/donald-trump-african-american/
Norton

Social climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 03:25pm PT
"Oh, look at my African-American over here. Look at him," Trump said. "Are you the greatest?"

wow, I thought he could not get any worse, any more of an ass of a man

ok cosmic, guyman, pyro, couchmaster, escoliar

defend your little boy, defend your "support"
dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
They support a racist.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 3, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
There is so much (lies, lies and more lies) out there that the Donald has said the stage has changed, it is over for him.


The racist as#@&%e can't win with current base of voters and he really won't be adding that many more come November.

dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
There is so much (lies, lies and more lies) out there that the Donald has said the stage has changed, it is over for him.


I think so too. It's early in the campaign, a lot can change, blah blah blah, but things seem different this time, like he is finally being vetted.
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Jun 3, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
*
*
*
The emperor ( humpty trumpty) has no clothes..
dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
"Klimmer, here, have some Kool aid, man" Donald whispered.


Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 3, 2016 - 04:09pm PT
The latest out the idiot's mouth...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-african-american_us_5751f2b3e4b0ed593f147736



I think the end is near for Klimmer and Donald.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 3, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
Why not get to know the real Donald J. Trump...

We do - every time he opens his mouth and that's is the real donald, not the phantasy donald on the dark side of your head.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 3, 2016 - 04:22pm PT
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 3, 2016 - 04:23pm PT
I just voted in the CA GOP primary. Kasitch for pres, Kamela Harris for Senate.


Wow. You're a bigger d#@&%e than I thought. Kamela?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 3, 2016 - 04:27pm PT
I voted Hillary, Kamela

How big am I?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 3, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
I do wonder what the outcome would be if every voter was allowed to vote for Bernie. But since only registered Democrats could vote in the primaries, the independents didn't have their voice heard in this election.

Since Bernie wasn't our selected candidate in numbers of votes, I felt I should support Hillary now to give her the support she needs to win in the General.
It's a tough pick, I love Bernie, but he didn't get the number of votes to win.
Go Hillary
dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
I guess Kamala isn't one of his African Americans?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 3, 2016 - 04:48pm PT
Jun 3, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
^^^^The coming Civil War will start on Supertopo.com

Nah.

We'll still be arguing about whether Dawn Wall was freed.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 3, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
I guess Kamala isn't one of his African Americans?


Apparently only people like yourself and Dingus see a person's skin color as a priority.

She's not a good person. She worked SF AG and did a horrible job. Has nothing to do with her skin color.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jun 3, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
Trump has said a lot of things that are racially charged but this latest one with the judge shows he is clearly racist.

Support Trump and you support a racist.

If Obama said a judge couldn't oversee his case because the judge was white it would be racist. This is what Trump is doing. Saying simply because of the judges race he is biased and should be removed/discriminated against in his government job. Racist.

It's not surprising that there's so many on the right still willing to support him, but it is disappointing.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
I do wonder what the outcome would be if every voter was allowed to vote for Bernie. But since only registered Democrats could vote in the primaries, the independents didn't have their voice heard in this election.

Actually, their voices were heard loud and clear: They CHOSE not to register as Dems or Repubs. They could easily select either, it's easy online up to 3 weeks before the election. Or, they could have selected any of the independent parties.

I am not a fan of open primaries. I think that Repubs should select who will represent their party. I, as a democrat, should not be determining who will represent the American Independent, or the Green Party.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
Saying simply because of the judges race he is biased and should be removed/discriminated against in his government job. Racist.

Fet, that's not accurate. Not sure if you're been disingenuous or just weren't aware, but he criticized the judge because he did lawyer-work with a La Raza affiliated group. Like an activist.

But yeah, La Raza is a brown supremacist group, so I guess race does has something to do with it.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
Apparently only people like yourself and Dingus see a person's skin color as a priority.

I'm parroting something your man Trump said today.

You support a racist.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
Do you really think he's racist? That he treats people differently based on skin color?

Despite what he's quoted as saying, which is usually distorted, I don't think he is. And I think most people know this.

dirtbag

climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:16pm PT
100% racist. No question. See Fet's post.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
At best he is a blatant race baiter.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:30pm PT
Only a Trump supporter would be stupid enough to confuse a la raza bar association with the national council of la raza.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Only a Trump supporter would be stupid enough to confuse a la raza bar association with the national council of la raza.


I know they both "the race" as their designator. And what race are they talking about? Who's the f*#king racist?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
strike two
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 3, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
Trump had the worst week of his campaign. Incoherent ravings at a disastrous news conference, Trump U fleecing scandal headlines news, racists attacks on judge from Indiana and then Hillary decimates him with a masterful speech.

This clown is heading to a huge defeat.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 3, 2016 - 06:09pm PT

I think so too.

I think trump will keep shooting himself in the foot. Now, this won't change the minds of his supporters, they are too stubborn. However, it will probably make the people sitting on the fence jump to the left.

Edit: klimmer,, when you start using Hannity as a source, you have lost what little credibility you had.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 3, 2016 - 06:14pm PT
Trump had the worst week of his campaign. Incoherent ravings at a disastrous news conference, Trump U fleecing scandal headlines news, racists attacks on judge from Indiana and then Hillary decimates him with a masterful speech.

So, would it be safe to assume that you will be disappointed to find out that Trumps poll numbers are up and his lead is widening after this so-called "disastrous" week? Lol
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 3, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
I listened to Hannity radio yesterday and he had Ann Coulter on

and she said the second Trump called Mexicans rapists, she was in love
Finally, someone people like her can rally around, not like the establishment McCain or Mitt, who she Hated!
But now, after he tweeted back at Hillary, he is on top of the World!!
He kicked Hillary's ass again after her speech

Trump is a dream come true for them. And of course they say Hillary and the media are lying about Trump, and it seemed that what they called lies, were the same things that they loved about Trump
Lies = what Trump actually says

Yea, we Love what Trump says, don't use lies against him!!

Pretty crazy, they can spin anything to say what they want you to think
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 3, 2016 - 06:21pm PT
What We Know About Hillary Clinton’s Private Email Server
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/27/us/politics/what-we-know-about-hillary-clintons-private-email-server.html?_r=0

"At the time, the State Department's policy stated that "normal day-to-day operations" were to be conducted on an authorized system."

"None of the emails were marked as classified when they were sent."

Really bad call on Clinton's part. Now, does that mean I'm voting for Trump? You gotta be out of you effing mind! Just this week he claimed that a naturally born man could not preside as judge in the Trump U case because he has Hispanic heritage. That's rarified air batshit crazy!

He also claimed he would love to limit freedom of the press when he becomes president! Now reconcile supporting that with a love of the founding principles of this country. Do it without frying a circuit or blowing a gasket - if can you're as crazy as he is.

I have problems with Clinton. She is indeed calculating (good quality in a president) along with some other characteristics I don't like, but she's not looney tunes.

With Trump and Clinton in the room, she's the only adult present. If they had at it, I think she'd kick his ass - he's a classic pussy bully.

I don't want a Berlusconi. I want a hard-assed wonk that eats data and shits practical policy and knows that compromise is part of the deal for getting sh#t done.

I don't like her and I don't want to have a beer with her. I just want her to beat looney tunes!

Edit: Love to sit down and have a conversation or multiple. Love talking with people who are smart and well-educated. It would be great to have a chance to make a compelling argument against GMO foods and agribusiness practices!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 3, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
Fine, Mark. A vote's a vote. My guess is your opinion will soften as the race moves forward.
I think you'd have an interesting conversation over that beer.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 3, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
What about all the Dead Soldiers in Texas!!!
The Body count is Now UP to 9

Is the Governor of the State responsible?
Why didn't he do something to save them,

I heard there was a "stand down order" from the top
they could have easily sent in jets from Arizona, or Italy..

how many will die before we do something!!!

He has blood on his hands...
The buck stops in his lap
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jun 3, 2016 - 06:36pm PT
You people are brainless....

says Daffy Duck...
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
FDR excerpt (1944)



“These Republican leaders have not been content with the attacks on me, or my wife, or on my sons. No, not content with that, they now include my little dog. Fala,” Roosevelt said.

“Well, of course, I don’t resent attacks, and my family doesn’t resent attacks, but Fala does resent them. You know, Fala is Scotch, and being a Scottie, as soon as he learned that the Republican fiction writers in Congress and out had concocted a story that I had left him behind on the Aleutian Islands and had sent a destroyer back to find him – at a cost to the taxpayers of two or three, or eight or twenty million dollars- his Scotch soul was furious. He has not been the same dog since.”



Full

Well, here we are together again - after four years - and what years they have been! You know, I am actually four years older, which is a fact that seems to annoy some people. In fact, in the mathematical field there are millions of Americans who are more than eleven years older than when we started in to clear up the mess that was dumped in our laps in 1933.

We all know that certain people who make it a practice to depreciate the accomplishments of labor - who even attack labor as unpatriotic - they keep this up usually for three years and six months in a row. But then, for some strange reason they change their tune- every four years- just before election day. When votes are at stake, they suddenly discover that they really love labor and that they are anxious to protect labor from its old friends.

I got quite a laugh, for example - and I am sure that you did - when I read this plank in the Republican platform adopted at their National Convention in Chicago last July: "The Republican Party accepts the purposes of the National Labor Relations Act, the Wage and Hour Act, the Social Security Act and all other Federal statutes designed to promote and protect the welfare of American working men and women, and we promise a fair and just administration of these laws."

You know, many of the Republican leaders and Congressmen and candidates, who shouted enthusiastic approval of that plank in that Convention Hall would not even recognize these progressive laws if they met them in broad daylight. Indeed, they have personally spent years of effort and energy - and much money - in fighting every one of those laws in the Congress, and in the press, and in the courts, ever since this Administration began to advocate them and enact them into legislation. That is a fair example of their insincerity and of their inconsistency.

The whole purpose of Republican oratory these days seems to be to switch labels. The object is to persuade the American people that the Democratic Party was responsible for the 1929 crash and the depression, and that the Republican Party was responsible for all social progress under the New Deal.

Now, imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery - but I am afraid that in this case it is the most obvious common or garden variety of fraud.

Of course, it is perfectly true that there are enlightened, liberal elements in the Republican Party, and they have fought hard and honorably to bring the Party up to date and to get it in step with the forward march of American progress. But these liberal elements were not able to drive the Old Guard Republicans from their entrenched positions.

Can the Old Guard pass itself off as the New Deal? I think not.

We have all seen many marvelous stunts in the circus but no performing elephant could turn a hand-spring without falling flat on his back.

I need not recount to you the centuries of history which have been crowded into these four years since I saw you last.

There were some - in the Congress and out - who raised their voices against our preparations for defense - before and after 1939 - objected to them, raised their voices against them as hysterical war mongering, who cried out against our help to the Allies as provocative and dangerous. We remember the voices. They would like to have us forget them now. But in 1940 and 1941- my, it seems a long time ago - they were loud voices. Happily they were a minority and - fortunately for ourselves, and for the world - they could not stop America.

There are some politicians who kept their heads buried deep in the sand while the storms of Europe and Asia were headed Our way, who said that the lend-lease bill "would bring an end to free government in the United States," and who said, "only hysteria entertains the idea that Germany, Italy, or Japan contemplates war on us." These very men are now asking the American people to intrust to them the conduct of our foreign policy and our military policy.

What the Republican leaders are now saying in effect is this: "Oh, just forget what we used to say, we have changed our minds now - we have been reading the public opinion polls about these things and now we know what the American people want." And they say: "Don't leave the task of making the peace to those old men who first urged it and who have already laid the foundations for it, and who have had to fight all of us inch by inch during the last five years to do it. Why, just turn it all over to us. We'll do it so skillfully - that we won't lose a single isolationist vote or a single isolationist campaign contribution."

I think there is one thing that you know: I am too old for that. I cannot talk out of both sides of my mouth at the same time.

The Government welcomes all sincere supporters of the cause of effective world collaboration in the making of a lasting peace. Millions of Republicans all over the Nation are with us - and have been with us - in our unshakable determination to build the solid structure of peace. And they too will resent this campaign talk by those who first woke up to the facts of international life a few short months ago when they began to study the polls of public opinion.

Those who today have the military responsibility for waging this war in all parts of the globe are not helped by the statements of men who, without responsibility and without' the knowledge of the facts, lecture the Chiefs of Staff of the United States as to the best means of dividing our armed forces and our military resources between the Atlantic and Pacific, between the Army and the Navy, and among the commanding generals of the different theaters of war. And I may say that those commanding generals are making good in a big way.

When I addressed you four years ago, I said, "I know that America will never be disappointed in its expectation that labor will always continue to do its share of the job we now face and do it patriotically and effectively and unselfishly."

Today we know that America has not been disappointed. In his Order of the Day when the Allied armies first landed in Normandy two months ago, General Eisenhower said: "Our home fronts have given us overwhelming superiority in weapons and munitions of war."

The country knows that there is a breed of cats, luckily not too numerous, called labor-baiters. I know that there are labor baiters among the opposition who, instead of calling attention to the achievements of labor in this war, prefer to pick on the occasional strikes that have occurred - strikes that have been condemned by every responsible national labor leader. I ought to say, parenthetically, all but one. And that one labor leader, incidentally, is certainly not conspicuous among my supporters.

Labor-baiters forget that at our peak American labor and management have turned out airplanes at the rate of 109,000 a year; tanks - 57,000 a year; combat vessels - 573 a year; landing vessels, to get the troops ashore - 31,000 a year; cargo ships - 19 million tons a year - and Henry Kaiser is here tonight, I am glad to say; and small arms ammunition- oh, I can't understand it, I don't believe you can either - 23 billion rounds a year.

But a strike is news, and generally appears in shrieking headlines - and, of course, they say labor is always to blame. The fact is that since Pearl Harbor only one-tenth of one percent of man-hours have been lost by strikes. Can you beat that?

But, you know, even those candidates who burst out in election-year affection for social legislation and for labor in general, still think that you ought to be good boys and stay out of politics. And above all, they hate to see any working man or woman contribute a dollar bill to any wicked political party. Of course, it is all right for large financiers and industrialists and monopolists to contribute tens of thousands of dollars - but their solicitude for that dollar which the men and women in the ranks of labor contribute is always very touching.

They are, of course, perfectly willing to let you vote - unless you happen to be a soldier or a sailor overseas, or a merchant seaman carrying the munitions of war. In that case they have made it pretty hard for you to vote at all - for there are some political candidates who think that they may have a chance of election, if only the total vote is small enough.

And while I am on the subject of voting, let me urge every American citizen - man and woman- to use your sacred privilege of voting, no matter which candidate you expect to support. Our millions of soldiers and sailors and merchant seamen have been handicapped or prevented from voting by those politicians and candidates who think that they stand to lose by such votes. You here at home have the freedom of the ballot. Irrespective of party, you should register and vote this November. I think that is a matter of plain good citizenship.

Words come easily, but they do not change the record. You are, most of you, old enough to remember what things were like for labor in 1932.

You remember the closed banks and the breadlines and the starvation wages; the foreclosures of homes and farms, and the bankruptcies of business; the "Hoovervilles," and the young men and women of the Nation facing a hopeless, jobless future; the closed factories and mines and mills; the ruined and abandoned farms; the stalled railroads and the empty docks; the blank despair of a whole Nation--and the utter impotence of the Federal Government.

You remember the long, hard road, with its gains and its setbacks, which we have traveled together ever since those days. Now there are some politicians who do not remember that far back, and there are some who remember but find it convenient to forget. No, the record is not to be washed away that easily.

The opposition in this year has already imported into this campaign a very interesting thing, because it is foreign. They have imported the propaganda technique invented by the dictators abroad. Remember, a number of years ago, there was a book, Mein Kampf, written by Hitler himself. The technique was all set out in Hitler's book - and it was copied by the aggressors of Italy and Japan. According to that technique, you should never use a small falsehood; always a big one, for its very fantastic nature would make it more credible - if only you keep repeating it over and over and over again.

Well, let us take some simple illustrations that come to mind. For example, although I rubbed my eyes when I read it, we have been told that it was not a Republican depression, but a Democratic depression from which this Nation was saved in 1933 - that this Administration this one today - is responsible for all the suffering and misery that the history books and the American people have always thought had been brought about during the twelve ill-fated years when the Republican party was in power.

Now, there is an old and somewhat lugubrious adage which says: "Never speak of rope in the house of a man who has been hanged." In the same way, if I were a Republican leader speaking to a mixed audience, the last word in the whole dictionary that I think I would use is that word "depression."

You know, they pop up all the time. For another example, I learned - much to my amazement - that the policy of this Administration was to keep men in the Army when the war was over, because there might be no jobs for them in civil life.

Well, the very day that this fantastic charge was first made, a formal plan for the method of speedy discharge from the Army had already been announced by the War Department - a plan based on the wishes of the soldiers themselves.

This callous and brazen falsehood about demobilization did, of course, a very simple thing; it was an effort to stimulate fear among American mothers and wives and sweethearts. And, incidentally, it was hardly calculated to bolster the morale of our soldiers and sailors and airmen who are fighting our battles all over the world.

But perhaps the most ridiculous of these campaign falsifications is the one that this Administration failed to prepare for the war that was coming. I doubt whether even Goebbels would have tried that one. For even he would never have dared hope that the voters of America had already forgotten that many of the Republican leaders in the Congress and outside the Congress tried to thwart and block nearly every attempt that this Administration made to warn our people and to arm our Nation. Some of them called our 50,000 airplane program fantastic. Many of those very same leaders who fought every defense measure that we proposed are still in control of the Republican party - look at their names - were in control of its National Convention in Chicago, and would be in control of the machinery of the Congress and of the Republican party, in the event of a Republican victory this fall.

These Republican leaders have not been content with attacks on me, or my wife, or on my sons. No, not content with that, they now include my little dog, Fala. Well, of course, I don't resent attacks, and my family doesn't resent attacks, but Fala does resent them. You know, Fala is Scotch, and being a Scottie, as soon as he learned that the Republican fiction writers in Congress and out had concocted a story that I had left him behind on the Aleutian Islands and had sent a destroyer back to find him - at a cost to the taxpayers of two or three, or eight or twenty million dollars- his Scotch soul was furious. He has not been the same dog since. I am accustomed to hearing malicious falsehoods about myself - such as that old, worm-eaten chestnut that I have represented myself as indispensable. But I think I have a right to resent, to object to libelous statements about my dog.

Well, I think we all recognize the old technique. The people of this country know the past too well to be deceived into forgetting. Too much is at stake to forget. There are tasks ahead of us which we must now complete with the same will and the same skill and intelligence and devotion that have already led us so far along the road to victory.

There is the task of finishing victoriously this most terrible of all wars as speedily as possible and with the least cost in lives.

There is the task of setting up international machinery to assure that the peace, once established, will not again be broken.

And there is the task that we face here at home - the task of reconverting our economy from the purposes of war to the purposes of peace.

These peace-building tasks were faced once before, nearly a generation ago. They were botched by a Republican administration. That must not happen this time. We will not let it happen this time.

Fortunately, we do not begin from scratch. Much has been done. Much more is under way. The fruits of victory this time will not be apples sold on street corners.

Many months ago, this Administration set up the necessary machinery for an orderly peacetime demobilization. The Congress has passed much more legislation continuing the agencies needed for demobilization - with additional powers to carry out their functions.

I know that the American people - business and labor and agriculture - have the same will to do for peace what they have done for war. And I know that they can sustain a national income that will assure full production and full employment under our democratic system of private enterprise, with Government encouragement and aid whenever and wherever that is necessary.

The keynote of all that we propose to do in reconversion can be found in the one word jobs. We shall lease or dispose of our Government-owned plants and facilities and our surplus war property and land, on the basis of how they can best be operated by private enterprise to give jobs to the greatest number.

We shall follow a wage policy that will sustain the purchasing power of labor - for that means more production and more jobs.

You and I know that the present policies on wages and prices were conceived to serve the needs of the great masses of the people. They stopped inflation. They kept prices on a relatively stable level. Through the demobilization period, policies will be carried out with the same objective in mind -to serve the needs of the great masses of the people.

This is not the time in which men can be forgotten as they were in the Republican catastrophe that we inherited. The returning soldiers, the workers by their machines, the farmers in the field, the miners, the men and women in offices and shops, do not intend to be forgotten.

No, they know that they are not surplus. Because they know that they are America. We must set targets and objectives for the future which will seem impossible - like the airplanes - to those who live in and are weighted down by the dead past.

We are even now organizing the logistics of the peace, just as Marshall and King and Arnold, MacArthur, Eisenhower, and Nimitz are organizing the logistics of this war.

I think that the victory of the American people and their allies in this war will be far more than a victory against Fascism and reaction and the dead hand of despotism of the past. The victory of the American people and their allies in this war will be a victory for democracy. It will constitute such an affirmation of the strength and power and vitality of government by the people as history has never before witnessed.

And so, my friends, we have had affirmation of the vitality of democratic government behind us, that demonstration of its resilience and its capacity for decision and for action - we have that knowledge of our own strength and power - we move forward with God's help to the greatest epoch of free achievement by free men that the world has ever known.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
Escopeta posted:

So, would it be safe to assume that you will be disappointed to find out that Trumps poll numbers are up and his lead is widening after this so-called "disastrous" week? Lol

wow, it must be awful to be so.....

"Democratic presidential contender Hillary Clinton has opened up a double-digit lead over Republican rival Donald Trump

Some 46 percent of likely voters said they supported Clinton, while 35 percent said they supported Trump,
Norton

Social climber
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:07pm PT

screen shots
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
Wow, zBrown, that was GREAT. Thanks.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Oratory. How refreshing.


Escopeta, Just use the Fox News strategy - tell a lie often enough and it transforms into the truth!
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
Fet, that's not accurate. Not sure if you're been disingenuous or just weren't aware, but he criticized the judge because he did lawyer-work with a La Raza affiliated group. Like an activist.

But yeah, La Raza is a brown supremacist group, so I guess race does has something to do with it.

As mentioned wrong La Raza. Even if you can't admit it Trump IS a racist, supporting him makes you associated with it. So I'd be careful about who you tell you support Trump.

That's probably a big part of the violence you see at Trump rallies. Of course there's no excuse for it, but many people feel justified attacking racists. I hate Illinois nazis.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:38pm PT
FDR...I welcome their hate...classic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Madison_Square_Garden_speech

ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
Trump said a man is not capable of doing his job for no other reason aside from the fact he is Hispanic. How is that not racist?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jun 3, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
And trump said he shouldn't be allowed to do his government job. And trump wants to be president where he could apply this logic to thousands of people. Frightening.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 3, 2016 - 10:02pm PT

Trump just lost a VOTE..
rest in peace..
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 03:36am PT
It's not a secret - donald is a racist and he's pandering to the same racist sentiments the gop used in its southern strategy and in its campaigns ever since. And while racism is somewhat less out in the open, well code-worded and less publicly acceptable these days, there is no shortage of racists among us and trump simply pandering to them and they are responding in kind. Sad enough we haven't been able to move beyond it all as a society, let alone having a presidential candidate personally fomenting racism as a political campaign strategy.

Next we'll be hearing from trump that hillary has a black love child in hiding...
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 06:58am PT
Pyro, I provided chiropractic care for Alli for a while to give comfort relative to his Parkinson's. His mind and will were still apparent though he was trapped in a body he could barely control.

He was always quite dignified and respectful. A class act

He was, also, a very devout Muslim. And, it was constantly present. He reminded me very much of Iranian friends and associates. That fits with his progression from Nation of Islam to Sunni to Sufi.

Sufism is spiritually oriented and pacifist. It is also against racism.

Pyro, You disrespect Ali by suggesting he would have voted for Trump and his hatefulness.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 07:05am PT
But you don't disrespect him for attempting to speak for him as well?

Typical libtard, its OK if I do it, but shame on you!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 4, 2016 - 07:13am PT
Cheesy Donald would have liked Cassius Clay, not Muhammad Ali. Ali fought against the racism and bigotry that personifies Donald and his supporters.

Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 07:19am PT
Escopeta, I do my best to keep it to the debate/argument/conversation here. But, I gotta say you just came off as a complete ass.

You appear to be the opposite of Mohammed Ali's example by being aggressive, judgmental, disrespectful, and trashy instead of classy.

Libtard? Really? That's just sad. How old are you? Your mamma missed teaching you respect. Your behavior dishonors you.

You make baseless assumptions, as well. I am libertarian.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jun 4, 2016 - 07:48am PT
^^^^. OMG REALLY? What about every ex congressman that becomes a lobbyist???

Paul Manafort is a beauty
He is also known for his successful efforts lobbying on behalf of Ferdinand Marcos, Jonas Savimbi, Viktor Yanukovych and other foreign leaders. In 1992, the Center for Public Integrity listed his firm amongst the top five lobbying on behalf of human-rights abusers.[3]

Susan
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 4, 2016 - 07:58am PT
Somewhere I read that Escopeta, and Kris Solem are friends. I know Kris Solem. Kris Solem, is a smart guy, and a nice guy. Escopeta is no Kris Solem.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:00am PT
Hey Norton, you need to greasemonkey the Troll like I did
It'll keep your blood pressure down
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:09am PT
Now I see why Klimmer loves The Donald so much

Donald believes every conspiracy lie just like Klimmer

If a conspiratorial narrative fits their bias, IT"S TRUE!!!
And look, someone else said the same thing.... see.. everyone believes the fauxs.

It's upsetting to have to witness this kind of behavior in front of our eyes, I wish someone would be able to help him "snap out it" and wake up and out of his make believe fantasy world.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:10am PT
"Give $$$ to Bill, get favors from Hill."

That is exactly it.

+1 Klimmer
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:10am PT
Pyro, I provided chiropractic care for Alli for a while to give comfort relative to his Parkinson's. His mind and will were still apparent though he was trapped in a body he could barely control.

He was always quite dignified and respectful. A class act

He was, also, a very devout Muslim. And, it was constantly present. He reminded me very much of Iranian friends and associates. That fits with his progression from Nation of Islam to Sunni to Sufi.

Sufism is spiritually oriented and pacifist. It is also against racism.

Pyro, You disrespect Ali by suggesting he would have voted for Trump and his hatefulness.


WTF is it with you people and your obsession with RACISM. You look so intently for it everywhere that you've blinded yourself to real racism.

You've diluted and changed it's meaning. You have yourself almost become a racist because you see everything through a race/color/ethnicity lens.

I don't even think you realize it.

EDIT:
Somewhere I read that Escopeta, and Kris Solem are friends. I know Kris Solem. Kris Solem, is a smart guy, and a nice guy. Escopeta is no Kris Solem.


WTF?!? You guys are really weird. You're judging someone's character this way?
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:16am PT
ummm, shut up?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:19am PT
Give money to any Republican in Congress, get favors

Why care if you vote Republican
100s of Millions of Dollars in dark money are changing hands in Right Wing Non-Profit Political clearing houses to fund everything from Benghazi to local education boards
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:25am PT
Hillary's moral character has been tested while she a Senator and SOS

She performed as well as most Dems could have for the times

Almost all those stories are pure hit jobs, lies fabricated by paid liars
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:28am PT
The full of sheeit brigade is in the house, still? Mr. Ali, in his own words, was no Trump supporter.

Get a clue.

In a public statement titled, “Presidential Candidates Proposing to Ban Muslim Immigration to the United States,” the boxing legend reiterated his decades-long stance that Islam was a religion of peace, and that people, in this case Trump, should not be exploiting it for political points.

“We as Muslims have to stand up to those who use Islam to advance their own personal agenda,” Ali said. “They have alienated many from learning about Islam. True Muslims know or should know that it goes against our religion to try and force Islam on anybody.”
ADVERTISING
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:32am PT
Blue, you're right the racism was a poor choice.

More accurate would be "he stood against hatred and bigotry of every manifestation, including racism."

Thanks, Blue. That's much more accurate.

Blue.....


...I thought you were a Christian.

"By their fruits ye shall know them."
~ Matthew 7:16
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:38am PT
"By their fruits ye shall know them."
~ Matthew 7:16

Indeed. That's usually how I roll.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:50am PT
Some more reasons why Trump is more popular than you may know.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/06/03/katie-courics-anti-gun-producers-repeatedly-violated-federal-gun-laws/
Do you think any penalty will be paid by Couric and her 'team' for repeatedly violating Federal gun laws? No. She is the protected class.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/06/dhs-quietly-moving-releasing-vanloads-illegal-aliens-away-border/
DHS dumping known OTM illegals inside the US, further from the border. They say it's because there are too many to process. Border Agents are a little pissed off.

Separate set of laws for them, different ones for me and you. There is no accountability anymore. It's getting worse too.

The media is partially to blame for this too. They're supposed to be the our "4th estate" of government. The watchers. The ones who investigate and explore what our gov't is doing as we work/sleep our lives.

They are not doing their jobs anymore, they've grown apathetic, lazy.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 09:00am PT
bluering posted
WTF is it with you people and your obsession with RACISM. You look so intently for it everywhere that you've blinded yourself to real racism.

You've diluted and changed it's meaning. You have yourself almost become a racist because you see everything through a race/color/ethnicity lens.

I don't even think you realize it.


Listen to bluering. He's an expert in obliviously ignorant racism.

bluering continued
Some more reasons why Trump is more popular than you may know.

If you have to rely on a "silent majority" myth to shore up support for your ideas you might have deeper problems.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jun 4, 2016 - 09:07am PT
+1 bluering
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 4, 2016 - 09:15am PT
The most powerful country in the history of the world is ruled by its fear of Muslims, Mexicans and gay people.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 4, 2016 - 09:25am PT
Exactly.

Oh, and poor people. Mustn't forget our hatred of taking care of those less fortunate.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 4, 2016 - 09:26am PT
Look out for the Muslim Mexican Maricones
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 09:29am PT
Fear of Democrats is real.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 4, 2016 - 09:31am PT
Beware of Gay Mexican Muslims with no money, they're the worst.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jun 4, 2016 - 09:38am PT
"By their fruits ye shall know them."
~ Matthew 7:16

Indeed. That's usually how I roll.


Yeah, but that was W-A-Y before GMOs. New crops, new rules.


Susan
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 09:47am PT
Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
~ Matthew 25:40

Blue, Your posts don't seem to align with your professed beliefs.

It's not just you, of course. It's a common theme.

Ultimately, we don't have the right to judge another.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

~ John 8:7

We do, however, have the right to judge another's speech and actions.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 10:00am PT
Ah quit yer bitching, bluering.

The man says his judge should be dismissed solely because he is Mexican.

That's pure racism. He's a racist piece of billionaire garbage.

But it's no shock you defend that trash. You've stood up for racist dog whistlers for years. (Michael savage, Ted Nugent, others.). I think you actually like what they are whistling

Well, trump is not dog whistling this time.



Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 10:18am PT
So, Norton and 10b4me are the same person then?

Is that what Craig Fry was spewing?

Interesting.....
Norton

Social climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 10:45am PT
someone please

put that child out of his misery
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 10:50am PT
The most powerful country in the history of the world is ruled by its fear of Muslims, Mexicans and gay people.

More like diligence than fear. Surprised you would say that. Trolling maybe?

~ Matthew 25:40

Blue, Your posts don't seem to align with your professed beliefs.

It's not just you, of course. It's a common theme.

Ultimately, we don't have the right to judge another.

What is your problem? What problem do you have with anything I have ever said.

Tell me. Why do you judge me so? (take yer time, dig deep, and search hard). Dig the archives. I am misunderstood often, but I stick by everything I've said.

Somewhere is a "I hate Mexicans" thread, or some such thing. Start there. Plenty of material. Maybe it's this one;

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/442280/Immigrants-and-Epidemics-ot
or this one
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1163009&msg=1164643#msg1164643
here
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=783365&msg=841242#msg841242
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=696715&msg=697219#msg697219
here

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 4, 2016 - 10:58am PT
It's much worse than diligence blue.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 11:03am PT
I don't have a problem with people and my nature is to see their deepest and truest nature.

That being none of us should get a free pass on our actions. And, none of us should get a free pass when our professed beliefs don't jibe with our speech or actions.

I do have a problem with hate and supporting hate is not a Christian value.

Supporting Trump supports hate and the outcomes of hate. His actions are hateful. That doesn't mean that he's bad. It does point to the actions of someone who is deeply insecure and is not reflective and thoughtful enough to consider their behavior and modify it toward being less harmful and more of service.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 11:08am PT
See above, my edit, Mark.

Let's talk about "hate". Everybody's invited.

Be specific now. What do you think I hate? And maybe you should define "hate" in your terms first.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 4, 2016 - 11:19am PT
I wonder how the token black guy is feeling today.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 11:22am PT
Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
~ Luke 23:34

After Jesus washes his disciples feet in humble service...
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
~ John 13:15

More a problem of ego and human frailty than the faith itself. We tend to be hypocrites.

You asked for an example of hate. Any time we consider other people as them rather than us we are exercising hate. We could even be in a position of killing someone exercising reason and to prevent greater loss of life (life-giving sword). Recognizing that our lives could have gone that same direction, to be humble, and to be compassionate for their fate is the absence of hate.

To believe that there is something fundamentally different about from south of the border illegals than those of us in the US legally is hate. You do understand they are motivated to have a better life and in most cases support their families? They are not them. They are us if we were in their situation.

To choose to hate is to also choose ignorance and cowardice.

Kindness is my religion.
~ Dalai Lama

Blue, I catch myself being hypocritical often and work on fixing it. I am pretty damn diligent about not supporting, working against hate and not being hateful.

My stand is that a vote for Trump is a vote for hate.

Liberte Egalite Fraternite
John M

climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 11:36am PT
http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-keeps-up-attacks-on-judge-gonzalo-curiel-1464911442

In an interview, Mr. Trump said U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel had “an absolute conflict” in presiding over the litigation given that he was “of Mexican heritage” and a member of a Latino lawyers’ association. Mr. Trump said the background of the judge, who was born in Indiana to Mexican immigrants, was relevant because of his campaign stance against illegal immigration and his pledge to seal the southern U.S. border. “I’m building a wall. It’s an inherent conflict of interest,” Mr. Trump said.

this is racism Blue.. because Trump is saying that this judge can not give a fair ruling simply because the judge is of Mexican heritage. He doesn't show the judge to be biased in other cases. He just says the judge is incapable of giving a fair hearing because of his heritage.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 11:39am PT
~ Dalai Lama

Blue, I catch myself being hypocritical often and work on fixing it. I am pretty damn diligent about not supporting, working against hate and not being hateful.

My stand is that a vote for Trump is a vote for hate.

Are you baiting me? Do you realize that even the f*#king Dalai Lama has said that diluting your culture with another (Islam specifically) is very dangerous? In context, he was referring to a rapid influx of a different culture into another in the form of migrants.

Liberte Egalite Fraternite

Look at La Belle France today. They are more Islamic than their heritage of warriors of Christ. Fighting off the Moors.

France is gone, dude. We're next.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 11:48am PT
bluering posted
More like diligence than fear. Surprised you would say that. Trolling maybe?

This is just it. To bluering, Muslims, Arabs, Mexicans, Kenyans...they are all legitimate threats. He can't see his own bigotry because in his mind it makes perfect, logical sense. We are all blindly trusting groups of people that can be clearly identified as dangerous based on their religion, nationality and skin color. To him, it's diligence; the mindful watching of clear and present threats. He is incapable of the introspection necessary to dispel his biases.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 11:49am PT
Blue, your reflexive pushback keeps you from thinking. To think is much harder.....



...but much more satisfying!
John M

climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 11:51am PT
There was a long period in American history where any immigrant of Italian heritage was deemed to be someone who was ruining "Amurica". We survived. Doesn't mean there weren't growing pains.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 11:53am PT
We are all immigrants!


And, we all immigrated from Africa. :-)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
This is just it. To bluering, Muslims, Arabs, Mexicans, Kenyans...they are all legitimate threats.

I never said that. And this is the whole F*#KING PROBLEM!!!! You put want you want to see into my words. And others.

You are just dying to paint me as a racist. This force is so strong that you are willing to set aside common sense.

I would say that it is you that is not seeing the big picture. You are literally blinded by racism and some of your other beliefs.

I don't like seeing this, but I can't change you. It is you that has to wake up. I see things very clearly.

Funny too that you have no comments about your guru, the Dalai Lama. He see's it.

EDIT:
We are all immigrants!


And, we all immigrated from Africa. :-)


Yeah, we're all immigrants. I had this discussion too with my 12 yr old neighbor at the rally. "you know, Steve, we're a country of immigrants".

This is obviously right out of school. And as I told him, "That's absolutely correct".

But the picture seems to stop there in school. No mention of Italians (my homies), Irish, Polish, Jewish immigrants? They weren't treated well either. Do you hear them belly-aching?

No. The country accepted us once we accepted the country.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
Chump denigrates Mexicans, then says a judge with Mexican heritage adjudicating his sham university case can't be impartial because he is Mexican. The wheels are really starting to fall off the racist clown car now.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jun 4, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
Some might say we emigrated from another planet as a bacterium on a meteor.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jun 4, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
Hillary is lesbian? That seals it for me - I'm voting for her, and I'm voting early.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
Hillary is lesbian? That seals it for me - I'm voting for her, and I'm voting early.

me too, and vote often
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 4, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
You are literally blinded by racism and some of your other beliefs.

I don't like seeing this, but I can't change you. It is you that has to wake up. I see things very clearly.
Bluring
Klimmer says the same thing!!!
Conspiracy?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
Hillary is lesbian? That seals it for me - I'm voting for her, and I'm voting early.


hehe!. Nice.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
No, Locker, again you assume too much. And you've classified me based on who I choose as a candidate.

While that is very telling, you have to be careful when making assumptions.

Yes, I support Trump because he will do what Dems and Repubs having been telling us for years. "We're going to get illegal under control".

Neither party does sh#t. Look at polling about how Americans feel about getting illegal immigration stopped (or controlled). Neither party does what we would like in this regard.

He will get things done. That need to be done. That politics has interrupted in the past.


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 12:41pm PT
I have yet to see you (and others) attack the people hiring the "Illegals"...

Why is that???...

Are the not a HUGE part of the problem as well???...

Look harder, Johnson. I have repeatedly said this is a 2-party problem. Both parties are corrupt in this regard. Another reason they hate Trump.

Another reason I'm voting for him. Repubs exploit illegal labor through the Chamber of Commerce and other vehicles.

They're just as bad.

You know who gets to suck on it??? You and me. They don't give a f*#k!!!
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 12:46pm PT
The hypocrisy of not providing a working "green card" program for foreign nationals to work here legally in this country is most of it. Often the same people bellyaching are the ones hiring.

I grew up in California and Central American workers could come up for the season, make some money for their families, and go home in the off season. Then we got all two faced about it.

The other problem is the "drug war" that really effed things up. What is it about the Prohibition and the laws of supply and demand do we not get?

But, those are dangerous conversations for a poitician to bring up.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 4, 2016 - 12:56pm PT
Bluering, fyi. none of what trump proposes will get done.

#1 the wall crosses the reservations of three American Indian tribes. They have already said they oppose the wall.

#2 Mitch McConnell has said that he will not write legislation to bar Muslims from entering the country.

#3 how do you propose to round up 11,000,000 Mexicans, and deport them?
furthermore, most of the illegal immigrants,in recent years, are not Mexican. They are from Central America.

#4 trump will not bring jobs back to this country. those are business decisions. trump would know that if he was a good businessman.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:09pm PT

Look harder, Johnson. I have repeatedly said this is a 2-party problem. Both parties are corrupt in this regard. Another reason they hate Trump.

Another reason I'm voting for him. Repubs exploit illegal labor through the Chamber of Commerce and other vehicles.

They're just as bad.

You know who gets to suck on it??? You and me. They don't give a f*#k!!!

Yeah Freud would have a field day with this shit
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
Bluering, fyi. none of what trump proposes will get done.
Maybe not, but like BeRinie, it's the attitude and latitude of attacking problems.

#1 the wall crosses the reservations of three American Indian tribes. They have already said they oppose the wall.
It'll go. It will be far superior to what we have now. And I'll take that.

#2 Mitch McConnell has said that he will not write legislation to bar Muslims from entering the country.
He's going to be irrelevant pretty soon. Just wait.

#3 how do you propose to round up 11,000,000 Mexicans, and deport them?
furthermore, most of the illegal immigrants,in recent years, are not Mexican. They are from Central America.
Nice phrasing! No, it ain't going to happen overnight. Romney was right, not only about his 47% remark, but he was right about self-deportations as well. Watch. We just need someone willing to back up their words with action.

#4 trump will not bring jobs back to this country. those are business decisions. trump would know that if he was a good businessman.

This is the hardest problem and the most nuanced. Trump was brilliant to throw out the "30% tariffs" jargon in that debate. That is a last step though, second to last, in a trade war. That was a "shot across the bow" to China.

If China doesn't want to play the game by the rules, we'll change them too.


EDIT:
Yeah Freud would have a field day with this shit

There's a saying that you'll be cursed to live in interesting times. We're there.

As a man of God and an eternal optimist though I say it always works itself out for the best, after the pain. Just try to avoid the pain part.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
WestWing Blooey, with his thumb on the pulse
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
I have a lot of respect for people who want to feed and educate their children, breaking the law to do that is noble. When immigrants come here at great personal risk, work hard and prosper they become great citizens. We need the cross-breeding or else we will end up like some incestuous royal family. Slamming the door is short-sighted and ignorant.

"As Ronald Reagan said in his farewell address to the nation, 'I've spoken of the Shining City all my political life. …In my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.'"
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
Jon Beck, Thank you for that. Yeah, they are us - often "they" are better versions of "us."

Thanks for keepin' a hundred, Locker.

China breaks two rules by ignoring patent law and manipulating currency.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
I have a lot of respect for people who want to feed and educate their children, breaking the law to do that is noble. When immigrants come here at great personal risk, work hard and prosper they become great citizens. We need the cross-breeding or else we will end up like some incestuous royal family. Slamming the door is short-sighted and ignorant.

You're wrong. You're confusing legal migration with illegal immigration. This is very simple, and it is supposed to be for a reason!

Did you violate US immigration policy or not? You have to leave your emotions on the back burner for this one. Not ignore them, just put the law and common sense first.

Why do you confuse valuable legal immgrants with people who break our laws? Shouldn't there be a priority for the legal ones?

Edit: Locker, currency manipulation. Changing the rules. What is a dollar worth in China?

Mark EDIT:
Jon Beck, Thank you for that. Yeah, they are us - often "they" are better versions of "us."
Yes, very often saying something makes us feel good deep inside. Doesn't mean it's right.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
Locker is right and his heart is open.

Blue, you don't show compassion for the disenfranchised doing what they need to do to feed themselves and their families. Shame on you.

Just sayin' stuff never makes it right - there has to be a cogent argument.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
Blue, you make no account for the disenfranchised doing what they need to do to feed themselves and their families. Shame on you.


I have one. What is YOUR barrier to keeping out all the garbage that comes through the southern border? To control it?

Not everything coming north is good for us, or is in a humanitarian manner. How do you deal with that?

EDIT: When you use terms like "disenfranchised", I know you're most likely full of complete sh#t. It's disingenuous, a screen, a charade, for reality.

You're lying in a nice way. Or you're just a fool.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
I was not surprised to discover that they too just want what the rest of us do...

Financial security...

Housing...

Education for their children...

Healthcare...

You know...

Stuff that everyone SHOULD have...

The new American way.....we will decide what you SHOULD have...
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
It'll go. It will be far superior to what we have now. And I'll take that.

Indian reservations are sovereign.

#2 Mitch McConnell has said that he will not write legislation to bar Muslims from entering the country.
He's going to be irrelevant pretty soon. Just wait.
we shall see.

#3 how do you propose to round up 11,000,000 Mexicans, and deport them?
furthermore, most of the illegal immigrants,in recent years, are not Mexican. They are from Central America.

Nice phrasing! No, it ain't going to happen overnight. Romney was right, not only about his 47% remark, but he was right about self-deportations as well.

lol, why aren't illegals self-deporting, then.


#4 trump will not bring jobs back to this country. those are business decisions. trump would know that if he was a good businessman.

This is the hardest problem and the most nuanced. Trump was brilliant to throw out the "30% tariffs" jargon in that debate. That is a last step though, second to last, in a trade war. That was a "shot across the bow" to China.

If China doesn't want to play the game by the rules, we'll change them too.
China is the biggest lender of money to 'murica. trump isn't going to change anything.

bottom line is, all of these proposes will be tied up in court cases, and be rejected on constitutional grounds. as I said nothing will get done.
trump is misleading you, and all of his supporters.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
There you go with the "should" word again.

The only way to provide for the opportunity for all people to succeed is to take government out of the equation. As soon as you introduce the government legislating, planning economies and attempting to hobble one person or group in favor of another.... all designed to make everything fair, the less "fair" it gets.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
The bigger question has to do with criminals. It doesn't matter where they have come from. Again you think that "they" are somehow fundamentally different than you.

Criminality is essentially due to 2 things - human trafficking because of our two faced policies regarding "illegal" workers "(we don't want you here, but we're hiring!) and our dumb ass "drug war" that creates the very market for drug trade.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
10b, nothing will change until the administration changes. Then it will happen.

I really do believe that history will judge this (and maybe Bush) as the most inept and corrupt administration ever. And I really blame the media as much as the admin. See my previous post regarding the "4th estate"'s duty to investigate gov't.

They failed. Gov't is out of control. People are pissed.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
The bigger question has to do with criminals. It doesn't matter where they have come from. Again you think that "they" are somehow fundamentally different than you.

Criminality is essentially due to 2 things - human trafficking because of our two faced policies regarding "illegal" workers "(we don't want you, but we're hiring!) and our dumb ass "drug war" that creates the very market for drug trade.


You are missing the fundamental question. Do you want people crossing our southern border illegally? Yes or no.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
Indian reservations are sovereign.

That is half true, they are only sovereign with relation to the individual states. All Federal law applies to Indians and a wall would be a Federal action, so no sovereignty there. But you are right, we are not going to ram a wall down their throat.

You are missing the fundamental question. Do you want people crossing our southern border illegally? Yes or no.

Under the current system the answer would be a resounding yes, it is the only way we avoid negative population growth. We do not make enough babies to have enough workers paying our social security later on.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
See my previous post regarding the "4th estate"'s duty to investigate gov't.

so then you won't have any problem with the "4th estate" investigating a trump government?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
That is half true, they are only sovereign with relation to the individual states. All Federal law applies to Indians and a wall would be a Federal action, so no sovereignty there. But you are right, we are not going to ram a wall down their throat.


This is one thing I'd disagree with Trump on. I have feeling he knows how to work around these problems.

And I don't mean throwing them a golf-course or casino, but I don't underestimate his willingness to attempt it, or theirs to accept it as a concession.

Far weirder sh#t has happened lately...

John M

climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
The only way to provide for the opportunity for all people to succeed is to take government out of the equation. As soon as you introduce the government legislating, planning economies and attempting to hobble one person or group in favor of another.... all designed to make everything fair, the less "fair" it gets.

so no rules against monopolies?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
John, there are already anti-trust laws on the books.

Whether they're enforced or not is a diff story, depends on who's in office and who's writing the legislation. Everything is ok if they write a law saying it is.

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
The only way to provide for the opportunity for all people to succeed is to take government out of the equation

do you get snail mail?
do you drive on interstate highways?
do you use any utilities whereby said utility companies receive government subsidies?
do you receive, or plan on receiving social security, medicare?

edit:
So, Norton and 10b4me are the same person then?

dude, you just qualified my statement.

John M

climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
John, there are already anti-trust laws on the books.

thats not what he said.. He implied that there should be no rules.. so I am asking.

rules mean government. He said get government out.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
Let's be f*#king realistic, gov't does indeed serve some certain required purposes. They are specifically delineated in our Constitution. That is not in question.

The question is what they serve. That, as stated, is clearly outlined IN YOUR F*#KING CONSTITUTION!!!!

Those are the rules.

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
Blurring you must live in an insular little world.

Have you ever talked or befriended to an "illegal"?

I know a number of legal and illegal immigrants.

Most of the legal one are through my work. Software engineers and the like. Their parents had at least some money and they were able to get an education.

The illegals are ranch hands, landscapers, and laborers. They work hard and cheaper than Americans. Almost all I've met are really good people. They would love to be here legally but it's almost impossible. They have left countries where they could barely survive to have opportunity and a better life for their children. If I was in their shoes I'd do the same thing. Yes you are breaking the law, and it's sucks to always be worried about being deported, but the alternative is a corrupt and depressed country.

Demonizing these people is a cheap cop out.

I'm not in favor of blanket amnesty because it would encourage even more illegal immigration and our country can only handle so much. But there should be some kind of compromise where people can be here legally, pay taxes, get educated, and get a resident alien card or something. Eg visas to come pick produce seasonally are a no brainier.

Bluering you're not getting screwed. Your not a manual laborer. They are not taking your job. You are actually benefiting from illegals in cheap labor for lower prices on produce.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
Go Ammon!!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
They don't get that part...

Voluntary BLINDNESS...

No. What you fail to understand is that the money you speak of is gone! You think it was supposed to pay for that pot-hole you drive over everyday.

Guess where that money has been diverted to? You're still paying it, the road is still broken, where did the money go?

Wake up!!!

There are bills on the ballot for more money to spend on this park, that highway, or whatever.

They are f*#king you! They already stole that money and are asking you for more because they're "bankrupt".

Boo-hoo. We will pay for this. We (you a-holes) vote for all this extra crap and we haven't paid for simple things like enough water to drink every year.

But we're gonna have a "bullet-train" someday. Just nothing to drink.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
we haven't paid for simple things like enough water to drink every year.

oh yeah, now how about that non drought.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
Interesting

polling shows that "Trump supporters" are disproportionately white, male, and undereducated

I do not understand why that is, someone, Locker?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
Blurring you must live in an insular little world.

Have you ever talked or befriended to an "illegal"?

I know a number of legal and illegal immigrants.

Most of the legal one are through my work. Software engineers and the like. Their parents had at least some money and they were able to get an education.

The illegals are ranch hands, landscapers, and laborers. They work hard and cheaper than Americans. Almost all I've met are really good people. They would love to be here legally but it's almost impossible. They have left countries where they could barely survive to have opportunity and a better life for their children. If I was in their shoes I'd do the same thing. Yes you are breaking the law, and it's sucks to always be worried about being deported, but the alternative is a corrupt and depressed country.

Demonizing these people is a cheap cop out.

I'm not in favor of blanket amnesty because it would encourage even more illegal immigration and our country can only handle so much. But there should be some kind of compromise where people can be here legally, pay taxes, get educated, and get a resident alien card or something. Eg visas to come pick produce seasonally are a no brainier.

Bluering you're not getting screwed. Your not a manual laborer. They are not taking your job. You are actually benefiting from illegals in cheap labor for lower prices on produce.

Wouldn't a wall only help us though? Just to keep everything controllable, regulated, and legit?

You make things personal. Let's make them both practical AND personable. But legality and practicality HAVE TO COME FIRST, as we were always promised by our dear liars.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
Interesting

polling shows that "Trump supporters" are disproportionately white, male, and undereducated

I do not understand why that is, someone, Locker?


Polling amongst my control group shows that Norton is a left-wing propagandist, probably a paid one.

There's nothing wrong with that either.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
Locker, I have a party n 2 min....

I don't drink anymore. Honey-Skunk (hybrid) or Red Congolese (pure Sat.).?

The Red Congo is the best thing I've sampled in years.

EDIT:
where as Norton's has some validity...

There's the problem. Valid to who? Do you know?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
Making America great:






Norton

Social climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
Those of us who did serve our country don't like "cowards"





bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
Well, trying to figure if i should bring a pure Sat to the gig, or a killer Skunk Hybrid.

Just thought I'd bring the subject around to a specialty of yours. Maybe I was wrong to do so. Sorry!

EDIT:
To all of the more educated people that are having to deal with so much ignorance...

Alright, I guess I'm just stupid again. I should go back to school.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
Alright, the Red Congo is going.

I'm sure Trump will come up at a party I'm going to.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
"There's the problem. Valid to who? Do you know?"...

seriously, this polling information has been out in public for a long time and is well known

all one needs to do to confirm it is to do a 1 second google, yahoo, or bing "search"

like here (1/2 second)
http://www.inquisitr.com/2610326/donald-trump-supporters-mostly-uneducated-new-poll-finds/

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/who-are-donald-trumps-supporters-really/471714/

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/08/angry-white-men-love-donald-trump
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
You made my day
#2 Mitch McConnell; He's going to be irrelevant pretty soon. Just wait.

I hate that guy
what a f-ing Tool
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:36pm PT
Craig, we should celebrate together, brah!!!

I hate McConnell more. Sorry, I used the "h" word again...


Racist! (or something-ist)
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:40pm PT
Dump McConnell

If the Dems win back the Senate, will Reid be the leader again, or is he retiring this year?
We can make Bernie the new leader in 2017.
I'm pretty sure me and bluring are on the same page about this
Cheers
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
To be clear, government can and should play an important role in the protection of people's rights and enforcing the law. Freedom cannot exist without rights protection under law.

But what many fail to recognize (or decide not to) is that when government gets involved to promote outcomes as opposed to protect rights, everyone loses.

It never ceases to amaze me how people will fight tooth and nail to keep the government from making choices for women that want to have an abortion, but yet stay silent and let .gov make so many other choices for them.

I'm sure Donald or Hillary will reduce the size of government and restore individual liberty.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
Never like Michael Jackson. I'm a racist obviously.

To be clear, government can and should play an important role in the protection of people's rights and enforcing the law. Freedom cannot exist without rights protection under law.

But what many fail to recognize (or decide not to) is that when government gets involved to promote outcomes as opposed to protect rights, everyone loses.

It never ceases to amaze me how people will fight tooth and nail to keep the government from making choices for women that want to have an abortion, but yet stay silent and let .gov make so many other choices for them.

I'm sure Donald or Hillary will reduce the size of government and restore individual liberty.

Well, that's clear to some at least.

Still skeptical that Donald is going to increase gov't with the crowd he's gathering around himself. Donnie understands business, people, etc..., but he needs a politico hack to help him along with how the corruption works, and how it will stop.

I hope.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:51pm PT
No, that does not make you a racist

If you were running for President, and said this, you would be using racist language.

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

We have to ask:
are they all rapists?
are they all bringing drugs?
what crime are they bringing?

what's good about the assumed good ones?
where do they send their best people?

These are important questions that Trump won't answer
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 4, 2016 - 02:55pm PT
But what many fail to recognize (or decide not to) is that when government gets involved to promote outcomes as opposed to protect rights, everyone loses.

That is a patently false statement, either you are a liar or you are ignorant.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 03:00pm PT
You know he's right, Jon Beck. Tough to prove though.
John M

climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
To be clear..

then are rules protecting against monopolies protection of rights or " planning economies and attempting to hobble one person or group in favor of another" ?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
I remember back when FDR got involved in economic outcomes and just ruined the whole country.

When private industry gets involved to promote outcomes (e.g. putting more money in greedy folks hands), everything just works out fine.

Ask any miner. They'll tell you how true it is.





Norton

Social climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
If the Dems win back the Senate, will Reid be the leader again, or is he retiring this year?

Craig, Harry Reid is retiring form the Senate when his term ends

he has been grooming Chuck Schumer to replace him as majority leader of the Senate
when Donald Trump's landslide loss to Hillary Clinton results in the Dems taking the Senate away from the Repups in November

and Landslide it will be - she beats the Reality TV Boy by 10 million popular and over 120 Electoral Votes - America can't wait to vote to send The Donny back to his gold bedrooms
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
America can't wait to vote to send The Donny back to his gold bedrooms

Neither can he.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 04:25pm PT
Dick Van Dyke on Trump...

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2016/06/03/dick-van-dyke-support-sanders-john-vause-intv.cnn
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 4, 2016 - 04:33pm PT
oh Craig Craig Craig... that statement means nothing. Drumpf thinks the Mexicans are going to like him.






























The orange turd really does live in some sort of demented reality.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
Dick Van Dyke on Trump.....

Because really, who DOESN'T care what Dick Van Dyke thinks....right? Lol
John M

climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
Oh mercy klimmer.. I give up.. your entire post points to racism.

and since many Latino people (not all) seem to have a bias against secure borders,

so you are saying that he can't be fair because he has hispanic heritage.. that is the definition of racism.

therefore.... no white person should be a judge in a case where a person of color killed a white person.. because they just couldn't be fair.

.....

as for the relationship.. mercy.. they were both prosecutors for the attorney general over a decade ago. You would have to recuse every judge if that type of relationship was the basis of bias..
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
About 1,000 more posts to bury the " what is mind " thread


Maybe Wednesday.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 4, 2016 - 05:21pm PT
I like Chuck Schumer, he's related to Amy Schumer
He's not perfect, and he's a Jew, so maybe the good G-d will bless him.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 4, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
Klimmer, your legal analysis is laughable. You need to read up on conflict. If Trump wants the judge to recuse himself all he needs to do is file a motion. Although it might be too late to prevail on a motion to recuse, Trump possibly waived any conflict already. Shooting his pie-hole off in public is worthless babble. Trumps lawyers have already advised Drumptf that a motion to recuse is a waste of time.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 4, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
Elizabeth Warren knows the truth. Fraudster-in-Chief, indeed.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) continued her streak of lambasting presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump during remarks at the Massachusetts Democrats state convention on Saturday.

“Every day there’s another story or incident that completely disqualifies him from being president,” Warren said in some of her sharpest attacks yet against the Republican candidate. “Every day there’s another piece of evidence that exposes this small, insecure money-grubber.”

Warren hammered Trump for lying “so routinely and so ridiculously it’s really hard to keep up,” going after the for-profit Trump University, which currently faces multiple lawsuits.

“His playbook said to look for people with problems; they make good targets,” Warren said, referring to the internal guidelines Trump U. salespeople followed. Those guidelines encouraged its employees to mislead and manipulate potential customers.

“These were ordinary folks who were targeted because they had problems and Trump saw they were vulnerable and he could make a buck,” Warren said. “Here’s a man who builds a business to profit off other peoples’ pain. He wants to be commander-in-chief, but he’s qualified only to be fraudster-in-chief.”

The Democratic senator has seized every opportunity to lay into Trump, going after him on Twitter, in commencement remarks and even while accepting an award.

Trump has hit back, saying Warren has “a big mouth” and calling her “goofy” and “one of the least effective Senators in the entire U.S. Senate.” (He’s wrong.)
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 4, 2016 - 06:07pm PT
"Ronald Rotunda, a professor at Chapman University School of Law in Orange, Calif.,

Was he a great big fat person?

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 4, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Trump University
Please give us the apology spiel.

cause some of us may be still on the fence,
it might have been a good place to learn how to get rich, I never went there.

Would you sign up for classes?
Maybe send your kids.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 06:21pm PT
Charles Schumer is an idiot.

I think it would be cool if Trump came out and said "if you elect me President I will be the first President to advocate that we pass an amendment to the Constitution requiring legislators to live by the same laws and rules they pass for the citizenry"

"And if the legislators refuse to do it, it will be my first executive order that they will be forced to fight. "

I think that has the potential for making it a race and at least would show the elected elite for what they are.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 4, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
Klimmer, seek forgiveness. There just might be a hell.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 4, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
So let's move on from Trump University. Not the real issue at hand, nor is it really important except for those immediately involved. He'll get through it.

The real question is why do you support a proven criminal for office of POTUS? Do you hate our country? Do you hate America? Why would anyone vote for Crookrd Hillary?

Not sure I hate America or not. Not a very good way of defining the love someone has for America.


BUT
Every thing about the Trump University was crooked and a lie, it was a total FRAUD!!!
Just like everything he promotes, pure fraud.
Full of promises, empty on delivery.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
Locker, can you explain to me what the tard with the rubber hammer was looking to accomplish? Rotf. ^^^^^^
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 4, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
“I was told to do one thing,” said James Harris, a Trump University instructor whose sessions have been repeatedly cited in the litigation, in an interview with The Washington Post. “And that one thing was: . . . to show up to teach, train and motivate people to purchase the Trump University products and services and make sure everybody bought. That is it.”

Cheesy Donald's gonna fry, for sure...no need to make it a banquet.

When you've outraged the likes of Gingrich you've really crossed the line.

I don’t know what Trump’s reasoning was, and I don’t care,” former House speaker Newt Gingrich, who has been supportive of Trump, said in an email. “His description of the judge in terms of his parentage is completely unacceptable.”
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 4, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
Klimmer, you might want to reconsider Rotunda as a source, he is a whack job, he is a birther but I doubt he will admit it anymore (that grift dried up long ago). And Drumptf shooting off his mouth is not a brilliant strategy. All it accomplished was to make the judge more careful about everything he does to insure that the judgment against TU withstands an appeal. There is not a competent lawyer in California that thinks Trump is smart.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 07:48pm PT
OK. What do you call a line of rabbits walking backwards?

A receding hare line.


What do you call a line of ducks walking backwards and smoking?

huh?

See how some things just don't make sense Klimner?


zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
Huh?

The problem is that the so-called Trump U. had no products.


Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
Neither did many of the Universities attended by the ST politards either.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:18pm PT

Neither did many of the Universities attended by the ST politards either.

Quite true, but the universities did not claim they did have them.

That's where the fraud part come in. Keep at it, you'll get it eventually.



Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:29pm PT
Esco and Klimmer, you both must lead unhappy lives of quiet desperation. Go back and read your own stuff then think about what you are saying. Wow, projection much? Special note to Klimmer: Although I enjoy your troll baiting, you are just being stupid now. Don't you guys have anything better to do with your lives? I spent the day outdoors, not serial posting, and am the better for it. Go climbing or something and get a life. Klimmer, take up some of those hotties half your age that are hitting on you. Esco, just grow up.

Edited to add: What a lot of bullsh#t. Esco, can you ever imagine a situation where you actually learn something and admit you were wrong or that your mind was changed? Thought not; think about it.

Re -edited: What university did you go to Esco? I went to Michigan State Univrsity and Charles Stuart University, Waga Waga, NSW Australia. I wasn't taught bullsh#t.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:31pm PT
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”


Mexico doesn't "send its people".

Trump wanted to confuse and aggravate his audience with a false, inflammatory statement. He invoked an isolated incident that occurred in 1980, but pretended that there was a current, on-going problem.


Cuba, in 1980, allowed a mass emigration to the United States. It was later revealed that Fidel Castro released criminals from jail, and put them on the boats. He boasted about "flushing the toilets of Cuba into the United States."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift


From the moment he declared his candidacy, Trump has lied to and manipulated his followers. They are predominantly uneducated. Trump can interchange Mexico and Cuba, because they don't know they are different countries.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
Warms my heart to see retards do the very thing they are castigating others for....
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
Klimmer, I call bullsh#t, You aren't on El Cap and if you were, serial bull shitting is not what you would be doing. And you wouldn't check your phone five times a minute.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
Warms my heart to see retards do the very thing they are castigating others for....

Such a gentleman....
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
I ain't serial posting all day like you Esco. I check in occasionally to read your bullsh#t, eternally hoping you get a brain; I'm eternally disappointed.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:43pm PT
Clear with you, Klimmer, is a day in the mud.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
I ain't serial posting all day like you Esco. I check in occasionally to read your bullsh#t, eternally hoping you get a brain; I'm eternally disappointed.

Thanks for checking in, I guess we all have our crosses to bear. I was outside virtually all day, it was nice wasn't it? Kind of hot here though. F would LOVE to hear about my day.....making a post is just about the right amount of time between shots to let the barrel cool.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 4, 2016 - 08:50pm PT
Yesterday, Donald J. Trump said that the judge presiding over a lawsuit against Trump University should be disqualified from his job because, in Trump's words, he has “Mexican heritage.”

Judge Curiel was born in Indiana—and last I checked, that's in the United States of America. Judge Curiel is as much of an American as I am. He’s as much of an American as Donald Trump is.

Let's be clear about what Trump is saying. He thinks that because Judge Curiel's family has Mexican roots, he can’t do his job. Donald Trump isn't just wrong about this; his words show that he’s wrong about America. He’s wrong about what makes this country great. And on a day that we are mourning Muhammad Ali, let's remember that we live in a country where people can break down barriers, worship their own god, choose their own name, and lead and follow their dreams as far as their hard work and talent will take them. I’ve always believed that in America, it doesn’t matter where your parents were born or what color your skin is—we should be judged by our words and our deeds, not our race, heritage, or religion. Well, it's time to judge Donald Trump by his words and deeds. And I believe that his prejudiced, bigoted words and deeds disqualify him from being President of the United States.

Hillary Clinton
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 4, 2016 - 09:04pm PT
I know who you are, too.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 4, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
He's only a Corporal Googlepants. Commodore Fry is the high ranking officer in charge of cut & paste.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 4, 2016 - 09:42pm PT
Ah. an ammosexual.... now I understand. But I still don't understand this:
F would LOVE to hear about my day
but really don't care. How old are you, exactly? You really show a lack of life's learning. Be brave, my young buck, it will eventually make sense.......or maybe not, as you resist enlightenment with all your small powers.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 4, 2016 - 10:19pm PT

I climb several times a week. Went to The Who concert with 2 very pretty female friends ;)

I bet they were lesbians, and didn't tell you.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jun 4, 2016 - 10:26pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 5, 2016 - 05:13am PT
Oh I can't take credit for the "how old are you" comment.

That little gem was coined by none other than our own badger Norton.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 06:09am PT
Here is G-d's chosen one, doing the lord's work according to the prophecy shared by that guy on YouTube:


Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 5, 2016 - 06:39am PT
Klimmer god sent warrior...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 5, 2016 - 06:58am PT
^^^ That's a funny one.

But we all know how Hillary's military experience worked out for her.....and us.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 5, 2016 - 07:18am PT
Italy Feels Our Pain
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/05/opinion/sunday/italy-feels-our-pain.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

Across the Atlantic, they shudder at Donald Trump and the international havoc he could wreak. They also recognize him.

Escopeta, Clinton didn't brag about her military background. Oy....
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 5, 2016 - 07:56am PT
Looks like we can conclude that Klimmer is WRONG about Everything

His cherished Prophecies have no way in hell to come true

The greatest modern day prophesiers are the Las Vegas Betting site odds setters

here's what a landslide looks like, minus is good

Current Las Vegas Odds
Hillary Clinton -220
Donald Trump +190
Bernie Sanders +1600
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 5, 2016 - 07:58am PT
I will believe that Hillary is a Lesbian after Klimmer convinces me that Obama is a Muslim

what a crock of sh#t

Total BS
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:02am PT
Madoff, Trump's American Idol (see "The Art of Bullshittin"), is portrayed as a hard working non Mexican icon to be venerated.

But he bilked his investors out of $50 Billion, right?

On June 29, 2009, he was sentenced to 150 years in prison with restitution of $170 billion According to the original federal charges, Madoff said that his firm had "liabilities of approximately US$50 billion". Prosecutors estimated the size of the fraud to be $64.8 billion, based on the amounts in the accounts of Madoff's 4,800 clients as of November 30, 2008.

Trump states in Mado's defense:

Ignoring opportunity costs and taxes paid on fictitious profits, half of Madoff's direct investors lost no money

Can we can just return American Greatness?


Trump surrounded by one of his financial experts, Madoff. Circa pre-jail times.


Can we please just get the man a jury of his peers?

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:20am PT
^^^ That's a funny one.

But we all know how Hillary's military experience worked out for her.....and us.



http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/01/17/wsjnbc-poll-hillary-clinton-exits-with-69-approval-rating/



Well we know what the American thought of her as SOS.

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:20am PT
About Donald Trump, a friend says "Do you know what a Honey Bagder looks like?" I couldn't help laughing, because yeah... he does look like a honey badger, with that hairdo. And, as the honey badger is, so is the Trump Badger(malicious, vicious, and beyond-any-reason tenacious).

So, I Googled "Donald Trump + Honey Badger" and sure enough, there is a YouTube vidoe about it

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:31am PT
Who's being disingenuous here, Klimmer? Here's the question:

Why is the sexuality of other people so important to you ?


You respond thus:

Then let her come out of the closet in full loud and proud rainbow regalia. Why lie and hide? Why be dishonest?

You're being disengenuous (sic).

What's one thing got to do with the other? So if Hillary 'comes out of the closet' then what, exactly? You'll stop being concerned about others' sexuality? Also, inquiring minds want to know, were the two beautiful women you went to the Who concert with lesbians? Did you get stoned?
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:37am PT
Probably his daughters
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:39am PT
The Benghazi Committee’s Dead End
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/04/opinion/the-benghazi-committees-dead-end.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

After wasting millions of dollars in hopes of sinking Hillary Clinton’s presidential ambitions, Republican lawmakers seem to have nothing to show.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 5, 2016 - 09:04am PT
Mark....Fret not...These Republican fishing expeditions don't always pan out like the 70 million dollar special investigation that uncovered slick Willy's blow job...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 5, 2016 - 09:15am PT
Mexicans, Muslims, Blacks the list goes on...god little messenger...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-muslim-judge_us_57542cb6e4b0ed593f14ad78
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 5, 2016 - 11:30am PT
He's morphing into Mickey Rourke
Norton

Social climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
“You know, it doesn’t really matter what [the media] write as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass,” Mr. Trump said in a 1991 interview with Esquire magazine.

“Cause I like kids,” he told the radio host Howard Stern in 2005. “I mean, I won’t do anything to take care of them. I’ll supply funds and she’ll take care of the kids. It’s not like I’m gonna be walking the kids down Central Park.”


“Look at that face! Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president? I mean, she’s a woman, and I’m not supposed to say bad things, but really, folks, come on. Are we serious?” Mr. Trump, referring to Carly Fiorina

On Tough Questions From Megyn Kelly
“You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes. There was blood coming out of her wherever,” Mr. Trump said after a Fox News debate in 2015, in an interview with CNN.


“A woman who is flat-chested is very hard to be a 10,”

if Ivanka weren't my daughter, I would be dating her.”
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
The 2 very handsome single men friends who went climbing with me, one is a fellow colleague and climbing guide, and the other is from my Facebook Climbing Friends group. Both in great shape and very handsome.

Why would a person's attractiveness have any bearing on whether they are in any other way a quality human being? A "very pretty" woman, or a "very handsome" man can still be a psycho, jerk, inept idiot. A cheap trinket wrapped in nice packaging is still a cheap trinket, and usually a dissapointment in comparison to the expectation.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 12:24pm PT
"Take a drink of Kool aid, Klimmer. It will be amazing, the best drink! Take a drink..." Donald whispered.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 5, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
Is this you, klimmer


or this?


HaShem!

gesundheit
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 5, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
Klimmer, what if Trump loses?

Will G-d spite America?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 5, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
President of the KKK, maybe. The United States of America? No way.

overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 5, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
Just say yesh to Yeshua
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 5, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
WWYD?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
So I wasted some time and watched the Fox news ad for Trump.

One quick fact check.


Trump University’s initial response to Makaeff’s lawsuit was to accuse her of “extortion” and countersue her for allegedly making false statements. The defamation claims were thrown out in 2014 and Makaeff was awarded $800,000 in fees.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jun 5, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
What are you haters gonna do when Donald J. Trump is elected President?

If he wins, which is possible, but I still think H is the odds-on favorite, then, after four years, I will have the immense satisfaction of being able to tell Trump supporters: "I told you he would be a *_*_*_*_*_*_ disaster".
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 5, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
Then I am a shoe in... you too, nyuck, nyuck
Norton

Social climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
The 2 very handsome single men friends who went climbing with me, one is a fellow colleague and climbing guide, and the other is from my Facebook Climbing Friends group. Both in great shape and very handsome.

Why would a person's attractiveness have any bearing on whether they are in any other way a quality human being? A "very pretty" woman, or a "very handsome" man can still be a psycho, jerk, inept idiot. A cheap trinket wrapped in nice packaging is still a cheap trinket, and usually a dissapointment in comparison to the expectation.

happiegirl +1
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 01:33pm PT
Note that the law firm who is bringing the lawsuits against Trump University was a major donor to the Hillary Clinton campaign.

The lawsuit commenced in 2010. Wake up.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
Excuses first.......it's 99° F here in Yakima and I am giving up on the outdoors for now, so I'm reading and time wasting.

Klimmer, you ask what one would do if Trump won. Tell you what, I'll do a little wager with you. If Trump wins, there's a case of wine with your name on it. If Trump loses, you will testify on this forum that in fact God did not chose the Trumpster. No excuses, no twisting the Oracles' words, etc. Just a simple statement. Deal?

And, as happiegirl so elegantly pointed out, what the hell does it matter about a persons looks?
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
I think it was 100 by 10am here in Phoenix

edit;

brutal is the word, simple and sweet. I forget the time last night when I looked at the temp, well after dark, maybe between ten and midnite, and it was 99
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
^^^^^

Yikes!!! I just looked at your temperature - 112°!!! That's .....enervating.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
I'm feeling very inspired to write erotica about priestess Hillary and her dutiful servant, Huma.

Who says klimmer's post are pointless?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
All Hillary could think of was the heat, the heat that permeated her body and sent trickles of sweat between her thighs. Slowly, she undid one button of her bodice, then the next and the next and before she even became conscious of it the dress had slipped off her shoulders. She ran her hands across her breasts, feeling the hot smooth flesh as in a dream. She glanced up unseeing in her passion, then from the side of her eyes, saw her faithful servant Huma staring at her. Huma was breathing hard and her eyes were afire with passion’s glow. Slowly Huma………
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
What about the bet Klimmer? Chicken?
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
you've been doing more than making it.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
Winemaker, are you a winemaker? That's the safest bet you'll ever make. Trump's going to lose big and take a lot of people down with him.
Use that case to celebrate...I'd love a glass.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
crankster, yes, I am a winemaker. email your address and I'll send you a bottle.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
Are all Christians as shallow as you Klimmer? Do beautiful people make for better sheep? Rate yourself Klimmer, Enquiring minds want to know
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
How long has Hillary desired to be President? Since 1994!!!

How long has she been a declared candidate for the office?

There are two law firms representing the plaintiffs in the case.

Where is the proof that either of them donated to the Clinton campaign.

Numbers, dates.

Finally, even if either one of them did, there is no injunction against donating to somebody's campaign.

Are you claiming that they took on the case back in 2010 because they knew Clinton and Trump were going to be running?

You are a total fool. I would suggest that you stop filling your head with Trump propaganda before you give yourself one of these:




dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:35pm PT
Do beautiful people make for better sheep?

If you are going to do sheep they might as well be beautiful...wait what?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
Crankster...What gave you the idea Winemaker was a winemaker..? rj
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
Ha, keen intuition, rj.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
Crankster...Thanks...rj
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
I've been a bad bad boy.

As punishment I will slap my hand for you. Ouch. That really hurt.

Hard to believe you're not gay (NTTIAWWT) with posts like that
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
Last year I made 99,895 gallons of wine. We have 200 acres in grapes. Klimmer can get free wine, since his god told him about the Trumpster.

How about it Klimmer? You can't lose.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:03pm PT
Let's me see if I understand this. Klimmer is citing a Trump interview as proof in support of a Trump claim. Wow. That kind of aptitude demonstrates why he supports him.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:03pm PT
Okay, since you don't want free stuff, as you couldn't possibly lose with god on your side, I'll change the bet. If Trump wins I'll believe that your god made it happen and say so on this forum. If Trump loses, you believe and say that god didn't anoint the Trumpster and use a donkey to speak to us, or whatever the thing is. Deal?

I know you don't get it, but your constant posting about how beautiful etc. the women you are with is just creepy. It's like to you that is the really important part, but it's really, truly, not the important part.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
Do you think Klimmer is dreamy?

vvvvvvvvvvvvv he might prefer a scourging
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
Klimmer...If Trump loses i think you should let Winemaker spank you...
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
Klimmer, in response to you ash question, there is a bit, but that has sort of been incorporated into the soil now. this is before my time, but Yakima got a very heavy ash fall during the eruption. The sky darkened, street lamps went on, ash started drifting like snow. No one knew what was happening or what they could do, which was really nothing. Ash was swept up and piled like snow in parking lots. It just blended in after a while. I doubt if it made any difference to grape growing. If you have sharp eye you can still see patches alongside some of the highways; it sort of looks like frost, even though it's hot out.

Here are a few pictures:



Just to be clear, the eruption was not the fault of Bill or Hillary Clinton.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
rottingjohnny......what can I say? Thanks, but ........no thanks.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
Okay...bad joke...sorry...
Norton

Social climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:17pm PT

why post at all if that's the only thing you can come up with?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
No, no sorry. It was funny. Makes me want to get a glass of vino though.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
On 'Fox News Sunday' Chris Wallace did an interview with Newt Gingrich:

WALLACE: Are you comfortable with a potential president attacking a federal judge for his heritage?

GINGRICH: No. This is one of the worst mistakes Trump has made and I think it's inexcusable. He has every right to criticize a judge and he has every right to say certain decisions aren't right and his attorneys can file to move the venue from the judge. But, first of all, this judge was born in Indiana. He is an American, period. When you come to America, you get to become an American. And Trump who has grandparents who came to the U.S. should understand this as much as anybody. Second, to characterize, you know -- if a liberal were to attack Justice Clarence Thomas on the grounds that he's black, we would all go crazy. Every conservative would say it was wrong and it was racism. And Trump has got to, I think, move to a new level. This is no longer the primaries. He's no longer an interesting contender. He is now the potential leader of the United States and he's got to move his game up to the level of being a potential leader.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
Klimmer, it's not a 'faith' moment for me, as I am an atheist. I don't believe there is a god, and certainly not the god of the Bible. Believe what you want, but don't believe this election is testing my 'faith'. If Trump wins it won't be because of some god waving some magic thing. It will be because Americans have gotten stupid.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
He is now the potential leader of the United States and he's got to move his game up to the level of being a potential leader.

he has the brain of a Reality TV Promoter, he should not be put under that much pressure, just not "fair" to him
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
What bias? That he has Hispanic blood? He is an American, born in Indiana. But Trump is judging him by his ethnicity. Bullsh#t. Trump made a big mistake here and he will keep making them because he just can't shut up.

If you were a judge, Klimmer, and someone had a case in front of you, would you recuse yourself because they didn't like Jews? Same thing Klimmer.
John M

climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 03:56pm PT
who doesn't have the obvious bias.

what bias?? he is hispanic? thats not a bias.. why can't you see this? you are saying no one of hispanic heritage could try the case unbiasedly because of their heritage. Do you not see the racism in this? Forget for a minute that "God" told you that Trump was to be the next president. This is racism. Try to see that.

John M

climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
racism.. simple
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 5, 2016 - 04:07pm PT
Excuses first.......it's 99° F here in Yakima and I am giving up on the outdoors for now, so I'm reading and time wasting.

Winemaker -- It's well over 90° here. But I took one look at this thread and realized that it wouldn't matter how hot it was. Frying outdoors had to be better than frying my brain reading about the Messiah Donald. So I went out and cooked myself on an hour-and-a-quarter bike ride.

When I got back, since I was already fried, I took another look at this thread and realized I'd made the right decision.

And while the thought of a glass of wine isn't doing much for me as I sit here dripping sweat (cold beer in hand), I'd love to sample your wares at some point.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 5, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
when Gingrich says you're a dickbag maybe it's time to listen. but not the orange turd. he's going to bury himself. Probably realizes he's the dog that caught the car now doesn't have a f*#king clue how to get out of this.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 5, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
The Trump University case is political.

You have to give Clinton credit for foresight since the suit against Trump in the Trump University case was first filed in 2010. Maybe God was giving her the inside track!
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jun 5, 2016 - 04:17pm PT
Right, so Klimmer is an idiot, a religious hypocrite and a bigot. No need to linger here.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 5, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
All Trump is asking for is that the Judge recuse himself and another be appointed who doesn't have the obvious bias. Simple.

Obvious to whom? The guy was born in the USA.

Would a judge with a last name of Schmidt have a less obvious bias?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 5, 2016 - 04:24pm PT



WBraun

climber

Jun 5, 2016 - 04:07pm PT
Donald Will Definitely Win 100% a new season of celebrity Apprentice next year.

He'll get nothing but Hillary partisan loons as contestants and fire them all ......

I heard he's doing a celebrity cook off next. Roast Duck is the first recipe.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 5, 2016 - 04:36pm PT
Chump, the snake oil salesman, is going out on rail. Tarred and feathered.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
Damn Klimmer, I sort of start to like you then you post all this idiot stuff about the end of the world and the dwarf planet and stuff. You are a loon, and i mean this in the nicest way.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 5, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
Sunday May 18th, 1980, a friend and I were climbing a route on Beacon Rock,Here

That's how far back you have to go?
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jun 5, 2016 - 05:11pm PT
G-d inspired prophetic messages that Donald Trump is going to win the Presidency before he does, and that he's going to turn our country around for the better.

Wow Klimmer- you must've gotten into some Owlsley-grade koolaid.

Seems to me there is something your leader said way back related to rich men, camels and needles. How does that jive with the Donald?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 5, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
Klimmer, please provide specifics regarding all of the evil things the Clintons do with their money. If you can't I know you've got nothing and you're just parroting hearsay.

I'll start - they support GMO food production. I advocate against GMO foods as a non-sustainable food production strategy.

Your turn...
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
Echoing what was said above Kimmy_baby. You remind me of The Chief who I came to terms with a ways back. He was always wrong (95% of time time) but he was tenacious as hell.

I sorta miss the guy, though some would dread him back here.

You are not by any chance his love child with Sarah Palin are you?



The point of Palin’s video was to attack Jessie Ventura for filing suit against Chris Kyle for defamation. (You remember Chris Kyle, and how he died at the hands of a mentally ill person, to whom he gave a gun!)

Chris Kyle wrote a best selling book, American Sniper. In it he accused “Scruff Face” of bad-mouthing fallen soldiers, saying that “Navy Seals deserve to lose a few” and getting into a fist fight. “Scruff Face” was Jesse Ventura. The suit was initiated against Kyle while he was still alive to deny the allegation that the story was untrue. The best seller was estimated to have resulted in profit to Kyle in excess of $6,000,000.

In order to prevail in the case, Ventura had to prove to the jury that:
1. That Kyle’s story was defamatory,
2. that it was false, and
3. that Kyle knew it was false or published it with serious doubts about its veracity.

It was a jury that found that Ventura had been defamed and awarded less than 2 million dollars in damages. That means that the “poor widow” was left with a mere 4 million dollars, from the sale of the book alone. A finding against Kyle means that the jury found that Kyle lied, that his lie was disparaging to Jessie Ventura, and that he published the story even though he new or had serious doubts about the truth of the story. Thus the jury concluded that Kyle intentionally lied in his book and did so out of malice.

Sarah is supposed to be the champion of the military. The curious thing is why would she attack Jesse Ventura? He himself was a Navy Seal. Thus we would never expect Sarah Palin to call a member of the military a “jackass.”
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 5, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
You know what's crazy!

It was a high of 68 degrees here today in Costa Mesa
I had to wear my winter cycling gear for my road ride

June Gloom times 10

40 degree temperature differential
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 5, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
Klimmer...

I think I read on ST that you teach Science???...

At a Parochial school???...





Locker, I when to a Jesuit high school and Christian Brother college, they embraced science, I never once heard the BS coming out of Klimmer keyboard.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
From the Huffington Post (but check your own sources):

According to a judicial opinion in Beattie’s 1990 lawsuit against Trump Shuttle, the new company insisted that all pilots be available to start work on Feb. 1, 1989.

Beattie had applied for a job with Trump Shuttle, like the rest of his fellow Eastern pilots, but his orders from the Army college required that he stay until June to complete his assignment. For his would-be bosses at Trump Shuttle, that was a deal-breaker.

According to U.S. District Court Judge Thomas Flannery, this is how it played out:

(1) Trump extended offers of employment to all Eastern employees based upon their seniority status; (2) Beattie was an Eastern pilot possessing the requisite seniority; (3) Trump declined to hire Beattie based upon his unavailability on the specified commencement date; and (4) Beattie’s unavailability was caused by his military commitment.

Edited to add: Klimmer, you, as a veteran, should be OUTRAGED by these sort of actions. Are you? I am.

In response to Beattie’s legal claim, Trump’s lawyers argued that Beattie had been denied a job because he was “unavailable,” not because he was a reservist. They also claimed that Beattie’s attendance at the Army college was “voluntary,” and therefore not a real military “obligation.” The judge threw out these arguments. According to case files, Beattie’s case was settled with a consent judgment in November of 1991.

Trump Shuttle, which never turned a profit for Trump, was turned over to his creditors in early 1992, as part of the assets Trump had to sell to settle the first of three corporate bankruptcies.

Beattie died in 2014, and attempts to reach his surviving relatives were unsuccessful. A spokeswoman for the Trump Organization did not respond to an inquiry from The Huffington Post about Beattie’s case.

Nice guy, supports the military (really?) and who (not) follows the law. Come on Klimmer, at least show a tiny, itsy bitsy bit of doubt and curiosity and actually check shit; I mean , you post like fifty videos we have to watch. You, who post so many videos, never look at the ones that don't support your oddly distorted and really weird viewpoint. Scared to look? Yep, and scared to bet.

Oops, forgot to add that the judge, Thomas Flannery was of Irish descent, so he should of had to recuse himself, but didn't, as Trump was of Scottish descent.

Edited to add: Klimmer, as a veteran, you should be OUTRAGED by these actions. Are you? No. How do you justify this sort of sh#t?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 06:42pm PT
'Teaches science'. Yep.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
Norton

Social climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
Norton

Social climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 5, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
You believe in an ark on the moon. A f*#king alien ark on the moon. All credit is lost. Drumpf is a snake-oil salesman and his followers are racist lunatics who want to build a wall across Mexico, invade Syria, and have blacks sit in the back of the bus. Enough already. They need to yank your teaching license, because you, sir, are full of sh#t, just like drumpf.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 5, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
Hillary is not perfect..Forgive her...God has chosen her to be the first lesbian President of the USA..
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jun 5, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
Ok, so now Klimmer is lumping himself in the same group as Copernicus, Newton and Galileo. I agree with Bob. I pray (since I believe in God too) that you do not teach (especially at a Catholic school). I'm guessing Christian, since they'd have no problem with you teaching that the earth is flat.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
Look who opened up a new bag of fortune cookies.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
"Watch former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani outline the most recent charges against Hillary Clinton on Thursday's Hannity:'


Oh the real role model for republicans, banged and married his second cousin, cheated on his wives and a real low life.

"Giuliani's first marriage was to his second cousin, Regina Peruggi. They were married for 14 years, before Giuliani had their marriage annulled by the Catholic church. His second marriage was to Donna Hanover, a reporter and sometimes soap-opera actress. Havover was the city's First Lady while Giuliani was mayor, but she stayed farther and farther out of the public spotlight as Giuliani was widely whispered to be swiving his press secretary, Cristyne Lategano. After Lategano left City Hall, Giuliani took up with a divorced nurse, Judith Nathan, paying her $10,000 per month as his speechwriter. Never one for subtlety, Giuliani and Nathan marched side-by-side in the St. Patrick's Day parade, where the city's mayor traditionally walks with his wife.'

http://www.nndb.com/people/587/000024515/
Heyzeus

climber
Hollywood,Ca
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
kattz

climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
I'm vacationing in the Republican state of Idaho right now....wow, this is real America, what a nice way of life and normal people...Democratic Kalifornistan is a train headed for a wreck, what a disaster!

PS: Trump please build a wall around Eastern Crazystan I mean Coastal and Central CA

This country needs a strong hand.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
Go back to California. Braj. :)

EDIT: Take Fritz with you. lol

RE-EDIT: On second thought, you're cool...you can stay. Just send Fritz back. Ha
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
Trump: "Look at my African American over here."

[Click to View YouTube Video]
kattz

climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
Well, I'll go, at 25mph! No tailgaters!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:26pm PT
"Look at that Monk-ey run....."
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:44pm PT
ANALYSIS: Sorry, But There Still Isn't Enough to Prosecute Hillary Clinton
By Dan Abrams

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/analysis-prosecute-hillary-clinton/story?id=38168118

But based on what has been public through the beginning of April, there doesn’t seem to be a legitimate basis for any sort of criminal charge against her. I fear many commentators are allowing their analysis to become clouded by a longstanding distrust, or even hatred of Clinton.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-reports-fbi-has-found-no-criminal-wrongdoing-in-hillary-clinton-email-investigation/

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/hillary-clinton-prosecution-past-cases-221744

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/what-should-we-make-of-the-hillary-clinton-indictment-speculation-20160503

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/may/12/fbis-investigation-hillary-clintons-emails-recap/

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/26/opinions/clinton-email-server-ig-report-opinion-cox/

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/11/us/clinton-emails-routine-practice.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

You do know that none of the emails in question were originally classified. Right?

Bad judgement call on Clinton's part regarding the emails. Criminal? No.

Hannity as a resource......no.

Klimmer, Do you have anything else? So far your portrayal of Clinton as evil incarnate isn't working for me.

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
Klimmer, it looks like g-d is punishing Texas with all those floods. She is punishing Texas for being. . . . . . Texas.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jun 5, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
Trump is gonna win.....






Today, my dear uncle told me that he will vote Drumpf. Today, my uncle who is absolutely ravaged by the effects of his service in Vietnam told me that he agrees we need not water foreign soil with American blood, that we need no more war. And that he supports Drumpf.



And I say f*#k it man, let's go rock climbing.

Let's let 'merica take another capsaicin suppository since the previous 8 years of Republikkkan f*#kery didn't open any of the cottoned-o'er eyeballs.

So let's vote Hillary. Let's vote for a milquetoast, status quo middle-road pro-Israel hawk. Let's cotton our own eyes. And let's GTFO and go rock climbing.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 5, 2016 - 09:04pm PT
Klimmer, things evolve over time; our understanding of the universe has evolved over time. The scientists you list didn't have the knowledge base we have now. For example, Newton was convinced that he could turn lead into gold. We now know that's not possible, except with tremendous expense using cyclotrons and other sh#t.

That Newton didn't know this does not diminish his contribution to science and our understanding of nature. You are a science teacher and should understand the process of science, with theories being introduced, examined, and tested to reflect the best of modern science. That is what science is, the evolution of ideas and the testing of theories. You seem to want to stop testing, to desire the end of science. Really, it's you who do not understand. You diminish the contributions these great persons have made by not understanding the process and the beauty of science.

If a theory seems weak, propose another. Test the old and the new with predictions based on the theory. Judge the theories by the predictions and the results. This, really, is why so many mock you on this thread. You propose the theory that god has picked Donald Trump, for whatever reason, to be president of the United States. Most people here say okay prove it. But all you can say is that you believe it. Great, believe it, but don't expect us to believe just because you do. Show us data and information that we can check. Youtube videos are not proof; anyone can make a f*#king video. You can make a video. That a video can be made make something true. What about life before Youtube, for god's sake, was there any?

Get real or stop spewing. And ask those women if they are lesbians; this is important for your education.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 5, 2016 - 09:08pm PT
Mark Force quoted: "But based on what has been public through the beginning of April, there doesn’t seem to be a legitimate basis for any sort of criminal charge against her."

this is kind of like saying "based on what is known at this point in june there is not a legitimate basis to know that donald trump will be the president next november"

of course both statements are true. but the other counterparts are equally as true: "right now, as the investigation has neither completed nor made its findings public, there doesn't seem to be a legitimate basis to be sure that there won't be criminal charges against her".

because here are just two of the key pieces of information that haven't been released yet:

 what are in the 22 top secret emails, that the state dept won't release? what if it is, as some have claimed, the names of CIA agents?
 was the server hacked or not? and if so, by whom? a deal has been made with guccifer, a hacker who was extradited from romania, who claims to have hacked them himself and saw evidence of other entities having already been there...

because importantly, those who talk about this like she just used personal email don't understand two factual points that are on the public record at this point:

 she set up and used her own server that had LESS security than a person using a hotmail or gmail account...
 her doing this was in contravention of state dept policy and was without permission.

my point: given the latitude that highest authorities have been given in the last 20 years at least, there may very well be enough wiggle room for them not to indict her... otoh, if one thinks that there necessarily isn't, than one doesn't understand the magnitude of what is already on the public record, along with the potentials that are hidden in what hasn't been released yet...



to start guessing what may or may not have been discovered by an investigation which is neither completed nor has been made public, is to not understand what an investigation is or does...
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jun 5, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
Ok, let's get something straight. The FBI never stated that they were expanding charges against Hillary. Rather, Hannity posted on his website that investigators familiar with the matter said that the FBI was going to. That's quite a difference.

BTW Klimmer, God spoke to me and said that He's pissed that you're a follower and that you're making him look bad. He wants you to stop.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 5, 2016 - 09:27pm PT
Kilmmer does seem Lois like. DMT strikes again.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 5, 2016 - 09:54pm PT
Klimmer you've really lost it, and I thought you had it bad before.

It's too bad the kids in your science classes are subjected to your weird ideas.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 5, 2016 - 09:54pm PT
What We Know About Hillary Clinton’s Private Email Server
By Alicia Parlapiano May 27, 2016

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/27/us/politics/what-we-know-about-hillary-clintons-private-email-server.html?_r=0

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 6, 2016 - 05:24am PT
Klimmer...i agree with you but am going to vote for Hillary...Please forgive me..
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Jun 6, 2016 - 06:05am PT
I am so ready for someone who is just like us, I mean look at this humble man with his family. It sad so many people just don't see how genuine a human the man is and how he truly understands the plight of us hard working Americans. Not only that he is someone who can think for himself and doesn't go down the rabbit hole of conventional thinking. Finally we have a candidate that embraces reality.

vvv based on the comments below I can see my sarcasm has somehow been missed.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 6, 2016 - 07:00am PT
None of these "candidates" are real humans, by design.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 6, 2016 - 07:04am PT
Trump's a champion for the Little Guy.

For example, at the Trump SOHO Hotel, a 22% gratuity added onto banquet bills is withheld from waitresses, who are bridge-and-tunnel commuting single mothers barely eking out a NYC existence.

Trump keeps the waitresses' tips for himself, so that he can spend them in a more appropriate, more sophisticated manner. Like, buying gold loo roll for Melania.

What a great guy.





I am preparing a Kickstarter (or similar) crowd-funding campaign to create and produce a plastic squeeze bottle, a la the Honey Bear.

The bottle will be a caricature of Trump and his big mouth. His wild, stand-up hairdo is going to be the spout.

You insert Trump's hairdo into "wherever" and squeeze.


Donald D#@&%e - The World's Number One D#@&%e


I intend to have it molded in Mexico, and a good portion of the proceeds will be given to charities that assist immigrants in obtaining legal residency.


pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 6, 2016 - 08:22am PT
Finally we have a candidate that embraces reality
+1 Charlie D
a few months ago I asked Chuck Todd a question is this election going to be based on Competency!

dirtbag

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 08:31am PT
You support a racist, pyro.

Are you a racist too?


Btw, it's extremely satisfying to watch republican bigwigs eat a trump shitburger nearly every day. That's what happens when you knowingly endorse a know nothing, narcissistic racist.

"Would you like ketchup on your shitburger, Speaker Ryan? Would you care for freedom fries with your shitburger, Senator McConnell?"

Bwahahaha!!!
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 6, 2016 - 08:45am PT
It's a disappointment to see McCain line up behind him.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 08:47am PT
They all have, except Romney and the Bushes.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 6, 2016 - 08:49am PT
"They all have, except Romney and the Bushes."

That would change if they were running for office.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 08:55am PT
Mark, remember that McCain chose Palin as his running mate. It was a big FU to the American people, and paved the way for people like Trump to be taken seriously. McCain has always made his political ambitions his first priority: his endorsement of trump is no surprise.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 6, 2016 - 08:58am PT
You support a racist, pyro.

Are you a racist too?

I don't think he(Trump) is racist. He has said some "over the top" things about illegal immigration(for ratings), but not specifically all Hispanics. What is your view on illegal immigration. Should we have wide open borders? Are you aware of border violence and the impact illegal immigration has: not with the middle class but the folks living below the poverty level? In your opinion what should the border look like?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:03am PT
He said his judge should be disqualified because he is Mexican. (He was actually born in Indiana.)

That's textbook racism, no dog whistles about it.

I can't recall the last time any major politician said such a thing.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:23am PT



The Justice Department sued his company — twice — for not renting to black people


Trump disparaged his black casino employees as “lazy” in vividly bigoted terms, according to a 1991 book by John O’Donnell, a former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino.

“And isn’t it funny. I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it,” O’Donnell recalled Trump saying.

lots more examples of Trump's racist, too many to post but here is just one link

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:27am PT
Only one link? So disappointing....
dirtbag

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:34am PT
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:36am PT
*
Who knows the the soul of a man?
........
*
"Actions speak louder than words"...

"The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them"

" no one is born a racist " .. but many studies say it is a learned behavior ..

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Norton

Social climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:41am PT
trailridge stated:

I don't think he(Trump) is racist

curious, just what else would Mr Trump have to say in order for you to believe he is a racist?

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:58am PT
"Only one link? So disappointing...."

That is one more than you ever post to back up the rhetoric that flows out of you.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:59am PT
Klimmer, you support a racist for president.

Are you a racist, too?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 6, 2016 - 10:00am PT
Well, he'll never make it to E5 General Googlepants with only one link.
John M

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 10:15am PT
klimmer.. dirtbag isn't lying.

You yourself have said that people of hispanic heritage can[t be unbiased towards Trump because of his stance on illegal immigrants. Why can't you understand that that is racism. You are saying that they are incapable of being unbiased.

If you do that.. then all white judges should recuse themselves from trying any case where a person of color has committed a crime against a white person, because the white judge couldn't be unbiased.

Why can't you see this?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 10:18am PT
Klimmercrite, your man trump is a chronic liar.

So stfu with your whines about lying. It makes you look even more ridiculous.

I already explained how trump is a racist.

Are you one too?

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 6, 2016 - 10:31am PT
Keep it going guys. At 10k posts that Ark on the Mo_n comes back to Earth.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 6, 2016 - 10:36am PT
Donald J. Trump is not going to be elected President. Remain vigilant, yes, and don't take anything - or any vote - for granted, but this thing is over.

He has nowhere to go but down. Hillary gelded him last week with her powerful speech. Turned him into a whimpering pile of flesh. She solidified her status with Democrats and tomorrow begins the unification of the party.

Two potential Trump VP picks, Corker & Gingrich, publicly criticized his racist remarks yesterday. The conservative Morning Joe did the same thing this morning:

The hosts of MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” ripped Republican presidential hopeful Donald Trump for his “completely racist” remarks about a judge with Mexican heritage.

Trump was criticized last week for claiming U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who was born to Mexican immigrants in Indiana, had “an absolute conflict” in presiding over lawsuits against Trump University because of the GOP hopeful’s plan to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border.

On Monday, “Morning Joe” host Mika Brzezinski asked if Trump’s remarks were racist.

“It’s completely racist,” co-host Joe Scarborough replied. “Here you have a guy that is from Indiana. From Indiana! I think his family, if I’m not mistaken, had been in the country of America longer than Trump’s grandmother.”

He's hit the iceberg. The ship is going down. The only question is will he last until November when the ship finally sinks, or will it happen sooner.

Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 6, 2016 - 10:42am PT
Dirtbag, I remember it well when McCain chose Palin as his running mate. I was thinking about voting for him and that was the absolute deal breaker. The idea of Palin as a possible prez gave me an excruciating headache every time I'd think about it.

Trump is a hateful and small minded little man. To vote for him is to vote for more hate in the world.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 6, 2016 - 11:22am PT
He said his judge should be disqualified because he is Mexican.

Hey dirt I was let go of jury duty the other day because I'm an ENGINEER

I was thinking that judge is a racist also..

dirt get over this racist sh#t

where is ur handicap boyfriend picture..


He has nowhere to go but down. Hillary gelded him last week with her powerful speech. Turned him into a whimpering pile of flesh. She solidified her status with Democrats and tomorrow begins the unification of the party.

KEEP DREAMING CRANKLOON
dirtbag

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 11:24am PT
Pyro are you really that stupid?

That's the best you can come up with?

I think you just answered my question.

dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 6, 2016 - 11:27am PT
Look at my Mexican judge over here, bad mexican judge

Looking at the front page I'm just wondering what all these climbing trip reports are doing on this political website
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 6, 2016 - 11:29am PT
That's the best you can come up with?

while working in factory some Hispanics like to speak the Spanish language I pull them aside and correct them by way of safety violation "you need to speak ENGLISH".. one of em tried to claim I'm racist and he got his ass kicked by HR..
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 6, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
while working in factory some Hispanics like to speak the Spanish language I pull them aside and correct them by way of safety violation "you need to speak ENGLISH".. one of em tried to claim I'm racist and he got his ass kicked by HR..

Ryan, now your lyin' like crooked donnel.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 6, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
As long as I don't hear pinche guero I don't care what they're saying
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 6, 2016 - 12:21pm PT

Just because you keep saying the sky is black doesn't make it so.

Just because you lie and say Donald Trump is racist, and so are those who want to vote for him, doesn't make it so. Stop lying.

Hahahahaha. Klimmer, you're a gem!!! You're the gift that keeps on giving. I'm going to modify your statement just a tiny little bit. Read it back out loud. Cognitive dissonance much?


Just because you keep saying the sky is black doesn't make it so.

Just because you lie and say Donald Trump isn't racist, and so aren't those who want to vote for him, doesn't make it so. Stop lying.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 6, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
Pyro, if the operational safety standard was English only, your were right in your position and the response of your Spanish speaking co-workers was wrong.

That little diversion has nothing to do with the question of whether or not you understand Trump to be a bigot.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 6, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, performs an action that is contradictory to one or more beliefs, ideas, or values, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.[1][2]

Look closely at the last part of that sentence


The confrontation does nothing. He experiences no strife from it

And that is kind of the point

You ask

Well, it's my point anyway. What's yours?
And you wrote

Klimmer does not suffer from cognitive dissonance

The point is that you're wrong but don't let that stop you. The fact that the confrontation does nothing is the whole point of cognitive dissonance
couchmaster

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
Things that make you go Hmmmmm....
"YOU CAN SAY A LOT ABOUT WALL STREET. YOU CAN SAY THEY ARE RUNNING FRAUDULENT OPERATIONS, THEY ARE GREEDY, THEY'VE HELPED DESTROY THE ECONOMY OF THE UNITED STATES. YOU CAN SAY ALL OF THAT. WHAT YOU CANNOT SAY IS THAT THEY ARE DUMB. THE QUESTION IS, WHY WOULD THEY BE GIVING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO SECRETARY CLINTON?"

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jun 6, 2016 - 12:58pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 6, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
That's funny. A good photoshop.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jun 6, 2016 - 01:14pm PT
Indeed. A fake EW account is the first clue. Can't trust anything you see on the 'nep. Who knew?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 6, 2016 - 02:14pm PT
Pyro, if the operational safety standard was English only, your were right in your position and the response of your Spanish speaking co-workers was wrong.

ur damn right I was right total safety hazard..

as for the wall Donald is right same thing total safety hazard.. did you know that san diego has to have the most advanced doctors who can identify strange sh#t that those hecho in mexico's bring over here..

besides OBAMA is a racist he built the wall in lybia..


Ryan, now your lyin' like crooked donnel.

total safety hazard most people don't know that in American work place English is to be spoken ONLY!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 6, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
Assimilate dude. Like the retard above said. SMH.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
Fear of Islam, immigrants and diversity are leading indicators of Donald Trump support

According to a new Pew Research study, if you look just at Republican voters who think the growing number of newcomers in the United States “threatens traditional American customs and values,” more than twice as many have "warm feelings toward Donald Trump" as have cold ones.

What's more, only 21 percent of Republicans said that immigrants "strengthen" America.


and that IS really the core basis of people who vote Republican - Fear

Fear of change, fear of "immigrants", fear of "muslims", fear of "diversity"

other polls have shown that Trump supporters are white, male, and "undereducated'

that sound like anyone around here?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 6, 2016 - 03:01pm PT
Support for crony capitalism, fear of getting a job and jealousy of successful Americans are leading indicators of Hillary Clinton support.


Take the pledge! Be a pledgekeeper...lol

http://wontvotehillary.com/
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
Shame on you, Duffield.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 6, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
Trump held a conference call with his surrogates, he urged them to attack reporters who question Trumps comments about Judge Curiel.

Dude is trying to sabotage his own campaign. God must hae told him to do it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/videos/2016-06-06/trump-urges-surrogates-to-rev-up-attacks-on-judge
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 6, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
 or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

I think you are putting too much on the mental stress discomfort part and we are splitting hairs because we basically agree that the guy is a massive dork

vvvvv you are right I was focusing more on the fact that he maintains his stance despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 6, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
Poor Donald!!!! Now he's the victim!!! Call the whambulance. In an interview with Wolf Blitzer, Trump spokeswoman Katrina Pierson had this to say:

Trump has accused Curiel of being a “hater” and of having an inherent conflict of interest while overseeing a case involving his for-profit university because the judge’s parents are Mexican immigrants, prompting criticism from both liberal and conservative circles.

Pierson questioned reports stating that Trump ordered his surrogates to defend his rhetoric.

“The surrogates want to get the facts out,” she argued. “They don’t want to sit here and listen to this nonsense calling Mr. Trump a racist, because that’s not what’s happening here. Mr. Trump is now the victim of judicial activism. Many people in this country know exactly what that feels like, and they don’t like it.”

As regards to Klimmer's cognitive dissonance, I was referring to the fact that Klimmer will write something to 'prove' Hillary is devil spawn and not realize that the same things apply to Trump; the selective interpretation and rejection of application of the same standards to Trump is amazing. Perhaps Klimmer is some sort of Jedi Knight and can manipulate reality. Or maybe it's god doing it.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 6, 2016 - 04:38pm PT
Trump is such a whiner! It's unsavory behavior in a man.
john hansen

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
So, is a white judge unqualified to rule in a case involving a Latino or African American or Japanese?

The whole idea of being a judge is to be impartial.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 6, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
exclusive
Bill, White House staff lived in fear of Hillary: Ex-Secret Service officer
By Emily Smith

I had no idea we had such whimps in the Secret service. Perhaps we need to fire that treasury service lot and get some Academi employees to protect the President.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 6, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
Epic fail on all of their name choices since the original
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 6, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
Haha. Yeah, Not much academics in Academi.

I had to look up what they are calling themselves lately. I was half expecting sugar plum fairies.

Whatever they call themselves it doesn't change who they are.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 6, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
Is there another I am missing???...

Option three: He's retarded?
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 6, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-pol-florida-ag-trump-university-20160606-snap-story.html

Florida's attorney general personally solicited a political contribution from Donald Trump around the same time her office deliberated joining an investigation of alleged fraud at Trump University and its affiliates.

The new disclosure from Atty. Gen. Pam Bondi's spokesman to The Associated Press on Monday provides additional details around the unusual circumstances of Trump's $25,000 donation to Bondi.

The money came from a Trump family foundation in apparent violation of rules surrounding political activities by charities. A political group backing Bondi's re-election, called And Justice for All, reported receiving the check Sept. 17, 2013 — four days after Bondi's office publicly announced she was considering joining a New York state probe of Trump University's activities.

After the check came in, Bondi's office nixed suing Trump, citing insufficient grounds to proceed.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 6, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
"Many people in this country know exactly what that feels like, and they don’t like it."

98% of citizens for trump couldn't cite a single case of 'judicial activism' if, united, you lined them up and put a gun to their head.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 6, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
Too Funny
I love George Will's wit



The ‘big price’ Paul Ryan has paid for supporting Donald Trump
Paul Ryan’s long path to endorsing Donald Trump
 

By George F. Will Opinion writer

June 6 at 2:25 PM 


The Caligulan malice with which Donald Trump administered Paul Ryan’s degradation is an object lesson in the price of abject capitulation to power. This episode should be studied as a clinical case of a particular Washington myopia — the ability of career politicians to convince themselves that they and their agendas are of supreme importance.

The pornographic politics of Trump’s presidential campaign, which was preceded by decades of ignorant bile (about Barack Obama’s birth certificate and much else), have not exhausted Trump’s eagerness to plumb new depths of destructiveness. Herewith the remarkably brief timeline of the breaking of Ryan to Trump’s saddle.


On May 12, a Trump meeting with Ryan resulted in a cringeworthy joint statement that had to be read to be properly disbelieved. The two spoke about the “great conversation” they had about “our shared principles.” They celebrated their “many important areas of common ground” while offhandedly mentioning “our few differences.” Those who know, or thought they knew, Ryan doubted that he could name a single shared principle, and he did not do so.

In spite of, and in conspicuous dissonance with, the May 12 happy talk, Ryan continued to withhold his endorsement. Perhaps he hoped that Trump, at age 69, was going to mend his manners.

Instead, Trump dragged a personal problem, his coming trial on fraud charges associated with Trump University, into the presidential campaign. Having first done so in February, on May 27 he again attacked the “Mexican” judge (born in Indiana, 1,332 miles from Mexico) who will preside at the trial, asserting that the Hoosier Mexican was unfit to preside because his ethnic heritage would incline him against Trump, the wall-building scourge of Mexican rapists. On May 30, Trump again attacked the judge, again embracing the identity politics that actually characterizes contemporary progressivism: An individual has, always and only, the interests and motivations of his race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation.

more
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-big-price-paul-ryan-has-paid-for-supporting-donald-trump/2016/06/06/5c8f2f64-2c08-11e6-9b37-42985f6a265c_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop_b
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
In what has to be called an unusual development in the land of Trump,* The Donald (Trump not Duck) has reversed himself (say what?) and now says that if elected he will appoint the bean... er ... Judge Curiel to the Supreme Court.




* I remember AdventureLand, Tomorrowland, FanstasyLand, & FrontierLand, but no TrumpLand.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 6, 2016 - 08:09pm PT


7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Jun 6, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
I wish I could look away.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 6, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
Klimmer, as a person who supported Bernie early on with donations (i.e. actual money), I can tell you, with no uncertainty at all, that Bernie supporters will NOT support Trump. He is the antitheses of what Bernie is about. If you believe Bernie supporters will vote for Trump you are dumber than I thought (nae, as the Scots would say). Good god, man, get a brain.
c wilmot

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 08:49pm PT
the 1% sure are doing well convincing the American public to eat their lies.
a longtime Clinton family friend, longtime democrat and WWE hall of fame member who worked for years riling up dumb americans with lies for money

and STILL people believe this nonsense

the WWE is more real than this election

the 1% wins

America lost
splitter

Trad climber
HighwayToHell
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
Klimmer: It's true.
Although, he isn't the truth, far from it. Wake up! Do you really think JC would have anything to do with worldly
politics? He is about changing [hu]man's heart. The Old Covenant proved that the Law couldn't do it. Listen, He never called us to go back to that. That's exactly what the so called Puritans precisely did when they left England and Europe and came to America and restablished Old Testament Law. That was a church without Christ/God. WHY? Because it was a church lacking LOVE! God is Love! The Puritans where not about Love. America is not a "Christian" nation. Its an abomination to call it that.

edit: He sent us out to tell people God loves them just the way they are. Not to force people to love Him. You can't. Because that is not Love...it is fear!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:23pm PT
Dear Trump supporters,

Get to know this ad because you're going to have to defend Trump from it everyday till November...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QUYQUd0Qh8
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:32pm PT
Truly!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:35pm PT
I'd pay good money to see Locker moderate the debates between trump and hillary...
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 6, 2016 - 09:41pm PT
The notion that Bernie supporters would turn around and support Drumpf is one of the most idiotic lines of reasoning there is. I'm leaning towards writing in Frank Zappa. And being a Sanders supporter from early on I've yet to meet a single Sanders supporter that would ever even consider voting for the orange turd.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 6, 2016 - 10:03pm PT
Dear Trump supporters,

Get to know this ad because you're going to have to defend Trump from it everyday till November...


Excellent commercial, HFCS.
splitter

Trad climber
HighwayToHell
Jun 6, 2016 - 10:10pm PT
HFCS - Grace
Thanks for that, it hits home. I was born with Spina Bifida Occulta. I had an irritating and continuosly open lesion until I was sixteen years old. I never told anyone about it. Nothing they can do about it anyway (I learned later when it was diagnosed). Fortunately, I had control of my bowels. A good friends daughter wasn't as fortunate. ... I can relate!
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 6, 2016 - 10:20pm PT
leave my dad alone
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 6, 2016 - 11:56pm PT
I just love how you latch onto an idea and then don't let a shred of common sense, basic logic or a single indisputable fact get in your way. Suspension of reality - the true hallmark of a trump supporter and a craft you've honed into a fine art over the years.

A prescient infographic of the trump campaign:


When he came to the edge of darkness like some splendid, terrible raider, the impious infernal legions, terrified as they gazed on him, began to ask: ‘Whence is he, so strong, so terrible, so splendid, so noble? . . . Who then is this, who comes to our gates so boldly, and not only has no fear of our torments but also frees others from our chains?-Jacobus de Voragine, The Golden Legend, about 1260
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 12:20am PT
Republicans uniting around trump:

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:02am PT
HaHaHA! POLITARDS.

The "nice guy's" sticking up for the sh#t slinging egomaniac with no agenda cept a Declaration for prosperity. Whilst the woman whose primary agenda is slavery today screams Fear of the Bullie which causes all her minions to destroy with threats and curses.


you boy's are standing to close to a tree to see a forest.......
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 05:17am PT
?????
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 05:37am PT

Bonus: not only does he mock disabled people, he's also racist.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:08am PT
Klimmer, this took all of ten seconds to find. From the BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34930042

And the man himself........

[Click to View YouTube Video]

And you support this sort of crude mockery? This man is chosen by god to be president? I think not.

Edited to add: Amazing you couldn't do this simple search, Klimmer, considering the endless number of videos and and 'articles' you post here.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:20am PT
Chosen by God? Probably not.. Chosen by the majority of Americans, Probably
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:30am PT
Donald and the Republican Party:


The Scorpion and the Frog

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:40am PT
^^^Well Said.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:46am PT
But, if you think Hillary is different, then you are being delusional. Power corrupts even the best of men/women.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:47am PT
Crank: Too funny. I was thinking about that parable on the way into work 3 hours ago.


Looks like Graham finally found his conscious again:

Graham to Trump backers: 'If anybody was looking for an off-ramp, this is probably it'

Washington (CNN)South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham urged Republicans backing Donald Trump to rescind their endorsements following the presumptive Republican nominee's comments about judges' ethnicity and religion.

"This is the most un-American thing from a politician since Joe McCarthy," Graham told The New York Times regarding Trump's comments.
"If anybody was looking for an off-ramp, this is probably it," he added. "There'll come a time when the love of country will trump hatred of Hillary" Clinton.
Trump is facing scrutiny for comments he made over the past week accusing Muslim and Mexican judges of being biased. He was asked Sunday on CBS's "Face the Nation" if a Muslim judge would treat him unfairly due to his proposal to ban Muslims from entering the United States.
"It's possible, yes," Trump said. "Yes. That would be possible, absolutely."
The businessman was already under fire for his assertion that the Mexican parentage of Judge Gonzalo Curiel has colored his rulings in lawsuits against Trump's business school, given Trump's plan to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border.


trail posted
But, if you think Hillary is different, then you are being delusional. Power corrupts even the best of men/women.

She is different? Not perfect. Definitely different. Trump hasn't been corrupted by power. He was always corrupt.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:54am PT
Trailridge, maybe give her another look. Watch the debates this fall. Colorado needs to be in the Dem column in the War on Trump.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:57am PT
Looks like Graham finally found his conscious again:

I do not think Graham ever endorsed Trump, he has always pegged the Donald as a moron.

I am no conservative but I respect Lindsey Graham as a person, he has an interesting background. Lost his parents and raised his younger sister while he went to college. ROTC got him through college, making him one of the few Republicans who have served in the military. People of humble beginnings often have stronger character. A good argument for illegal immigration.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:59am PT
He has made begrudging remarks about supporting the nominee.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:01am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]



And it looks like Bill Krystal is still batting 1000!

Why I’m Not Running for President
by DAVID FRENCH

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436222/david-french-not-running-president
Here is a sentence I never thought I’d type: After days of prayer, reflection, and serious study of the possibilities, I am not going to run as an independent candidate for president of the United States.

I gave it serious thought — as a pretty darn obscure lawyer, writer, and veteran — only because we live in historic times. Never before have both parties failed so spectacularly, producing two dishonest, deceitful candidates who should be disqualified from running for town council, much less leader of the free world.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:18am PT
People seem to believe they can wash their hands of Trump. You're either helping him become president or your helping to stop him. It's a binary choice this year. Cosmic, iirc you live in California so perhaps it doesn't completely apply to you, but people are deluding themselves if they think they can slap a "don't blame me I voted Libertarian/Green" sticker on their car and absolve themselves.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:20am PT
Hddj nails it, even if it is an unpleasant reality to some.

With that said, I think fellow Hillary supporters would be wise to give Bernie supporters a bit of space for awhile.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:30am PT
There's no doubt, Trump is an as#@&%e. But please don't get on a moral highhorse with Hillary.

Saudi Arabia, where they execute members of the LGBTQ Community and keep slaves...


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/top-lobbyist-slow-disclose-relationship-saudi-arabia-n584156

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:32am PT


Trump 2016!
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:38am PT

Trump attacks when he is attacked.

So clarify why did Trump make fun of the man with the physical disability? What did he say about Trump to bring on the attack from Trump, and then Trump made fun in short jest there after.

How did the man with disabilities attack Trump first? What exactly did he say to get Trump so riled up, to go on the attack?


Where is the whole story of this whole ordeal beginning to end? Video footage of the whole exchange from both sides please.

Klimmer, in his justification for supporting trump, asks a stupid question.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:40am PT
TRUMP IS THE REAL VICTIM HERE
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:49am PT
Its only wasted if you listen to the tards that try to rationalize that your vote is actually a vote for another candidate.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:53am PT


Jun 7, 2016 - 12:01am PT
I'm honestly asking for the whole story.

What happened exactly to bring this all about?

Trump attacks when attacked. He doesn't attack anyone for no cause.

Who knows the whole story and can provide links for the entire episode? I'd really like to know the whole story

Let's get something clear here.

You don't ever mock someone's disability for any reason: EVER. Especially if you're running for president.

Completely unacceptable and reprehensible.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:54am PT
So, does that mean we have to stop making fun of Locker then?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:55am PT

Bullsh#t. Vote your conscience. Don't let anyone tell you your vote is wasted. That's a bunch of pig sh#t.

lets remind ourselves of how powerful American vote is.


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:55am PT
Trump has always been a Yuge Racist

He was the leader of the Birther movement and went on with it months after Obama produced his birth Certificate.

And he enflamed another pathetic racist event in our History

The Central Park jogger case
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He took it up personally that these kids should die for what they supposedly did, and wouldn't give up after they were completely exonerated


On May 1, 1989, Donald J. Trump took out full-page advertisements in four New York newspapers calling for the return of the death penalty. Mr. Trump said he wanted the criminals of every age who were accused of beating and raping a jogger in Central Park 12 days earlier to be afraid.[80] The advertisement, which cost an estimated $85,000[80] said, in part, "Mayor [Ed] Koch has stated that hate and rancor should be removed from our hearts. I do not think so. I want to hate these muggers and murderers. They should be forced to suffer ... Yes, Mayor Koch, I want to hate these murderers and I always will. ...How can our great society tolerate the continued brutalization of its citizens by crazed misfits? Criminals must be told that their CIVIL LIBERTIES END WHEN AN ATTACK ON OUR SAFETY BEGINS!" [81]

Lawyers for the five defendants claimed that the letter had inflamed public opinion and after Reyes confessed to the crime and claimed he acted alone, the defendants' lawyer Michael W. Warren said, "I think Donald Trump at the very least owes a real apology to this community and to the young men and their families."[80] Protests were held outside Trump Tower in October, 2002 with protestors chanting, "Trump is a chump!"[80] Mr. Trump was unapologetic at the time saying, "I don't mind if they picket. I like pickets."[80]

In June 2014, after the City announced a settlement of over $40 million in the civil suit brought by the original group of five defendants, Trump penned an editorial for the New York Daily News in which he called the settlement "a disgrace" and insisting that the group's guilt was still likely: "Settling doesn’t mean innocence ... Speak to the detectives on the case and try listening to the facts. These young men do not exactly have the pasts of angels." [82]
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:57am PT
Indeed, vote your conscience. "Clinton is the same as Trump" is a mental construct to justify an emotional reaction. If your conscience leads you to believe that racism is unjust, that the political system should protect our most vulnerable, that attacking the very institutions that make America a democracy (the justice system, journalism) is wrong, that America is stronger with good alliances, that our leaders should lead based on the quality of their ideas and the relationships they build instead of bullying and belittling, that the purpose of government is in part to protect Americans from the excesses of capitalism, then it's pretty obvious that Trump is a severe danger to the very nature of our country.

This is not a case where two reasonably competent people are running for President and partisans are trying to draw broad distinctions between them. Romney would have done a lot of things that I strongly disagreed with...he would have been a competent President. McCain would have done some things I strongly disagreed with...he would have been a competent President. Trump is completely incompetent. He starts businesses like Trump University that are designed entirely to prey on vulnerable people. He doesn't just make aggressive, sometimes heartless businesses decisions like Romney did, he lies and cheats to get people to do what he wants and then completely abandons them

This is not someone a moral person can get away with allowing to gain real power and still have a clean conscience. I personally believe that Clinton will be a competent and just President though I disagree with her on many issues and believe that she needs to make herself more transparent and accountable. You may disagree and that's totally fine, but Trump is a true threat to many Americans and possibly to democracy itself. It is not hyperbolic to say that if you are not helping to prevent him from taking power you are allowing it.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:57am PT
Yes Craig, he always has been, like his old man before him. He just feels more emboldened to drop what little filter he had.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:00am PT
I only vote for someone that's aligned with my personal philosophy on life, so hence will vote for the Crocodile Hunter.

No one on the ticket is pure enough for me, I can't waste my vote on saving America from impending doom, I'm just too selfish and ideologically pure

I have to vote for something, not against
It's not my fault if Trump wins, I voted my conscience

pig shit
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:00am PT
And, hddj nails it again.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:01am PT
Bullsh#t. Vote your conscience. Don't let anyone tell you your vote is wasted. That's a bunch of pig sh#t.

Unless of course, your vote of conscience helps elect trump in which case you are full of pig sh#t.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:02am PT
Nah, locker is still fair game.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:04am PT
"Trump is a true threat to many Americans and possibly to democracy itself. It is not hyperbolic to say that if you are not helping to prevent him from taking power you are allowing it." -hddj

Agree.

Again per usual dmt is playing his own gig and failing to realize there are other gigs and other valid pov's besides his.

not be browbeat into submission.

what? you mean via a keyboard confection of 1's and 0's?

lol
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:11am PT
I see. So at what point does allowing authoritarians come to power stop being just a simple difference of opinion? Do they actually have to do something to someone you love? Because undermining judges based on their ethnicity is an existential threat to democracy. That's not a shade of grey. Even Paul Ryan and Newt Gingrich know it (though they still can't quite bring themselves to step in front of the bus, the classic conundrum of those trying to seek power while still having a moral conscious).
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:13am PT
I imagine there are also similar vigorous discussions over on the baseball/football forums over Yankees vs. XYZ.

10k beckons! G_dspeed!

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:16am PT
Donald Trump's comments criticizing a judge because of his ethnic background are "the textbook definition of racist comments," Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said Tuesday during an event on poverty in Washington D.C.

"I regret these comments that he made," Ryan said. "Saying a person can't do their job because of their race is sort of the textbook definition of racist comments. ... I think that should be absolutely disavowed."

Ryan, who also criticized Trump's comments last week, was bombarded with questions about Trump at an event to highlight the House GOP's policy agenda - beginning with poverty reform.

"I think they're wrong. I don't think they're right-headed," the Speaker, who endorsed Trump last week, said of the remarks.

He later called the comments "indefensible" but would not say he's rescinding his endorsement.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:17am PT
fear posted
I imagine there are also similar vigorous discussions over on the baseball/football forums over Yankees vs. XYZ.

10k beckons! G_dspeed!

Privilege in a nutshell.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:21am PT
Cliven Bundy for President!!!

Ammon for VP!!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:32am PT
Splitter, thank you for the share.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:33am PT
Vote your conscience. Don't let anyone tell you your vote is wasted. That's a bunch of pig sh#t.


True. While I have a vote, I'll vote my conscience. I'm voting for Gloria La Riva today in the primary, btw. You guys can continue to fight it out for which oligarch you support. Hope it works out for you.

In the general will probably vote for Jill Stein.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:49am PT
In 2000, some people claimed there wasn't an ass hair's worth of difference between Al Gore and George W Bush. So, they voted their conscience, filled in their bubbles next to "Ralph Nader," and during the next 8 years we had the Great Recession, two right wing Supreme Court appointments, and two devastating wars.

So by all means, vote your conscience.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:49am PT
Globally, at least 1.8 billion people use a drinking-water source contaminated with faeces.
-World Health Organization

Earth population is approximately 7.2 billion.
-Some internet page.

Thats 25%
-Wizard of Odds

Stop talking sheeit and be careful what you swallow.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:49am PT
"While I have a vote, I'll vote my conscience."

Well, your conscience just might help get Trump into office. Why not be more pragmatic this time around, when the stakes are actually quite high?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:52am PT
dirt posted
In 2000, some people claimed there wasn't an ass hair's worth of difference between Al Gore and George W Bush. So, they voted their conscience, filled in their bubbles next to "Ralph Nader," and during the next 8 years we had the Great Recession, two right wing Supreme Court appointments, and two devastating wars.

That would have been me had my ballot request form not gotten lost in a pile of junk mail at my town hall (they wrote me a letter apologizing for this after the election). I learned my lesson very quickly.


Gary posted
True. While I have a vote, I'll vote my conscience. I'm voting for Gloria La Riva today in the primary, btw. You guys can continue to fight it out for which oligarch you support. Hope it works out for you.

In the general will probably vote for Jill Stein.

That is your right. Just remember that it does not absolve you of the outcome.
John M

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:58am PT
Why not be more pragmatic this time around, when the stakes are actually quite high?

I keep asking why this wasn't considered when there was time to find someone besides Hillary...

why weren't the Hillary supporters pragmatic? why didn't they say.. well, some people don't like her enough to not vote. That might cause us problems down the road. Maybe we should look for someone else.

Instead, they said.. Its hillary its hillary its hillary.., ignoring our concerns, and now they say.. if you don't vote for her, then its your fault that trump is elected.

huh..
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:02am PT
"ignoring our concerns..."

That's just nonsense. Hillary's as compassionate, good-hearted and honest as they come.

Last but not least experienced. Experienced in gov and politics; experienced in successfully combating a vast right-wing hit machine 20 plus years in continuous operation; and experienced in human nature.

She deserves every single delegate she's got.
She played by the rules and she won fair and square.

She won. Fair and square. She won.

Don't like the rules of the system, change them.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:04am PT
Maybe we should have had some sort of vigorous election process where everyone could evaluate both the candidates under a number of circumstances and then all vote on it? Would that have made you feel better about the outcome if your first choice didn't get picked?
John M

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:04am PT
"ignoring our concerns..."

That's just nonsense. Hillary's as compassionate, good-hearted and honest as they come. Not to mention experienced. Experienced in gov and politics and experienced in human nature.


thank you for proving my point..
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:06am PT
hey I edited and how in the heck does that - either version - prove your point? lol
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:08am PT
"ignoring our concerns, and now they say.. if you don't vote for her, then its your fault that trump is elected. "


No-one has 'ignored your concerns'. Some share your concerns about Hillary's past, and some disagree with you. Don't take it so personally- there is PLENTY that we all agree upon.

Like the fact that if Trump gets into office, he'll make GWB look like a boy scout.


Unfortunately, our system is what it is, and only one candidate is going to rise to the top of each Party.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:08am PT
So by all means, vote your conscience.

Why thank you, I will.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:09am PT
Why didn't they find someone else other than Hillary for John M. to vote for????

Why???
Why did Hillary get so many votes when we knew she sucked???

Good grief

She was the last person standing, that's how our ugly system works
we know it sucks

don't like it, change it

Norton

Social climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:11am PT
Maybe we should have had some sort of vigorous election process where everyone could evaluate both the candidates under a number of circumstances and then all vote on it? Would that have made you feel better about the outcome if your first choice didn't get picked?

is that not just exactly what we have been experiencing the past year? (he asked in agreement)

even O'Malley with 6% of polling got to get in the Dem debates

how much more open could it have been? sour grapes if Bernie did not get enough votes
Norton

Social climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:13am PT
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:14am PT
I will never vote for this racist as#@&%e:

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:16am PT
"You all do far worse than Donald Trump "


Hmmm...can't remember the last time I ridiculed a person with a physical disability.

Or told a woman 'you'd look good on your knees'.

Or said that anyone of the Islamic faith should be blocked from our country.




Nosirree, I don't think there's any comparison between me & Trump. Except in a twisted, f*#ked up mind.
John M

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:16am PT
my point was that the concerns of those who had issues with Hillary were ignored and belittled from the beginning. Those who supported her said over and over that.. she is the only one. You said their concerns were no big deal. well. how big of a deal are they now if they don't vote? Did you even consider that? or do you just want to blame them if she loses? You take no consideration for your own actions. Many many people do not feel that she is honest and that she follows the powers that be. And they are getting tired of voting for the least of the worst. At some point their frustration will build enough and they will say "enough is enough", at which point they will vote again for someone like ralph nader, and again, the libs in power will blame them when they could have listened from the beginning and looked for someone else.

but hey.. keep your head in the sand and keep on belittling others concerns.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:20am PT
"keep your head in the sand and keep on belittling others concerns. "


Jeebus. You sound a little victimized, John.

There's a difference between 'ignoring' and 'disagreeing'.

Let it go, and look at the bigger picture. It really matters right now.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:21am PT
"You all do far worse than Donald Trump "


Hmmm...can't remember the last time I ridiculed a person with a physical disability.

Or told a woman 'you'd look good on your knees'.

Or said that anyone of the Islamic faith should be blocked from our country.


Or (I am guessing here) created a bogus "university" bilking attendees out of millions while providing false promises about the curriculum, then accuse the judge trying this mess of bias because of his Mexican heritage.

Or (and I am guessing here, too) played patty cake with David Duke and his supporters to win their votes.

John M

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:25am PT
Klimmer... this is what the reporter said

"I certainly do not remember anyone saying that thousands or even hundreds of people were celebrating."

the report the reporter worked on said..

"Law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river."

trump turned that into the reporting saying he didn't remember saying that there were 1000s of protestors. Which is not what the reporter said.

Do you understand how Trump twisted what the reporter said?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:28am PT
Good on ya, man!
John M

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:32am PT
no thanks apogee. I am advocating for change. I'm not interested in letting it go. If that makes you uncomfortable, well, I am uncomfortable voting for Hillary, so welcome to the uncomfortable couch. I want those who are asleep at the wheel to wake up to the fact that there is a growing number of people who are dissatisfied with the powers that be. Its already happened once. I tried to warn people from the beginning of this election series. But they wouldn't listen. They even remember what happened with ralph nader, but they learned nothing from it. So it might happen again and they will blame those who voted for ralph nader, instead of taking a look at their own issues.

by the way.. I didn't vote for ralph nader.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:35am PT
"But they wouldn't listen."


No, John...they simply disagreed with you.

But you can find dozens and dozens of other points upon which you have mutual agreement- why are you so hung up on this one thing?

Bottom line is this: it's going to be Trump vs. Hillary. Who is going to serve an agenda that is closer to your interests?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:41am PT
Klimmer, none of us are running for president.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:47am PT
Can't say the same for Hillary Clinton. There have been countless times where Hillary would or will not admit to doing wrong, or even illegal behavior when the facts are known, even when being investigated. Crooked Hillary lies regularly regarding many issues and really important matters, such as National Security, and yet you guys give her a pass. Unbelievable.

You've gone to the dark side Klimmer

sorry to say, but you are wrong

Hillary has admitted to being wrong every time she is proved to be wrong, unlike Trump

She's not a pathological liar, nor corrupt like Donald
and she did NOT risk the National Security

You're peddling in lies just to make Trump look better!
pure evil to the core
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:51am PT
All this hand wringing over a simple vote

it just proves how little people really understand politics

and all the while Mitch McConnell and the Koch brothers are the real people running the show from behind the scenes

you want change, Vote out the Republican Congress
then the President could have some real importance

in the end, it's all about majorities, and the Republicans have locked it up in Congress and nothing will change without first removing them from power

A trump president will not change Congresses behavior one bit, they will still be run by fear, anger and money, along with the goal of decimating the middle class
Norton

Social climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:51am PT


I am advocating for change

There will NOT be ANY change

The Repubs will remain in control of the House for many more years
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:55am PT
well said Coach
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:56am PT
"There will NOT be ANY change"


I dunno about that....the POTUS can start beating the war drums, and that Republican House will go right along with them, while a Dem-lead Senate will pantywaistedly go along, too. Just like last time.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:11am PT
Craig posted
Hillary has admitted to being wrong every time she is proved to be wrong, unlike Trump


There is no integrity in overstating these things. Clinton is a very defensive person. I think a lot of this has to do with 30 years of being the target of some of the worst kinds of attacks. Anyone who doubts her toughness has literally no idea what they're talking about. That being said, she is often reticent to admit when she's been wrong or to clearly take full responsibility for her actions or at least to convey it in an authentic way. The email server is a great example of when she made things worse for herself by not simply apologizing more succinctly and clearly up front.

Just because people make irrational or hyperbolic accusations at Clinton does not mean our defense of her needs to be. That literally only reinforces the point. Calm rational responses are the only antidote to hysteria.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:12am PT
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-u-scandal-gets-worse-floridas-ag?cid=sm_fb_maddow
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:12am PT
Klimmer, that is pathetic, but we have come to expect that from you.

Time for a meme. Mexicans have a derogatory name for Trump, translates as "corn hair".


survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:22am PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:31am PT
Donald trump is a complete racist, there is no denying this

so if you vote for him, then it means you support a racist Presidential candidate, you support racism as an American virtue

it's as simple as that
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:34am PT
The corn is arguably worse for Murica than Trump.

Well, yeah.

If Tisquantum hadn't shown the Pilgrims how to cultivate it they wouldn't have survived the second winter and we wouldnt be in this mess.

But is it Corn's fault?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:36am PT
lol....


dat's raciss!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:37am PT
so if you vote for him, then it means you support a racist Presidential candidate, you support racism as an American virtue

I wish people would just let that Andrew Jackson thing die.
John M

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:39am PT
so if you vote for him, then it means you support a racist Presidential candidate, you support racism as an American virtue

it's as simple as that

this is patently untrue. If it were that simple, then if I believe that Hillary is a liar, and I vote for her, then that means that I accept lying as an american virtue.

you can't have it both ways..

Or do you NOT believe in the notion that one sometimes has to vote for the lesser of two evils?

....

and this in no way means that I support Trump. I do not. I believe he is an egocentric maniac who will bring a lot of trouble for this country.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:42am PT
"if I believe that Hillary is a liar, and I vote for her, then that means that I accept lying as an american virtue. "


Given our political system, that is a false equivalency.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:49am PT
John posted
if I believe that Hillary is a liar, and I vote for her, then that means that I accept lying as an american virtue.

Dude, Sanders lies every single day. Stop deluding yourself.

Also, by your same logic, you are suggesting that not doing the maximum that you could to prevent a morally bankrupt demagogue from taking power was somehow virtuous.
John M

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:52am PT
I am not a Sanders supporter, though I believe he is more honest then Hillary and way more honest then Trump. It is sadly a sliding scale.

HDDJ.. normally I consider your posts to be fairly wise, but your last post is way out of line and sadly lacking in understanding of my position..
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:52am PT
Quit talkin' sheeit.

They are all liars.
-Jiminy the Cricket

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:54am PT
"if I believe that Bernie is a sometimes liar, and I vote for him, then that means that I accept lying as an american virtue. "


Isn't this a true statement (for you), then?
John M

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:55am PT
which part of

I do NOT support Sanders do you NOT understand????
John M

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:57am PT
I'm out.. no point in this discussion. you are only looking for ways to pick apart what I am saying instead of trying to understand meaning.

good luck with that.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:59am PT
Or do you NOT believe in the notion that one sometimes has to vote for the lesser of two evils?

Well put, John. I'm tempted to add that we always must vote for the lesser (or least) of imperfections. Unless one discusses the relative merits and demerits of all options, merely showing the imperfections of one, and consequently declaring the alternative superior, is a logical fallacy.

That said, I find this latest racist attack by Trump particularly indefensible and serious, because it conforms to the pattern of anti-Mexican bias he's demonstrated continually throughout this campaign. It also demonstrates his continued attempts to alienate our neighbor, the 15th-largest world economy, our number two trading partner, and a vibrant, if imperfect, democracy (as if we are a perfect one!)

In a way, given what I just said about comparing imperfections, I find it ironic that Trump's own anti-Mexico rants demonstrate the very fallacy I attacked in my first paragraph. He alleges that Mexico "steals our jobs," ignoring that those jobs in Mexico generate about 6,000,000 jobs in the United States. Thus, he looks only at the jobs displaced from here to south of the border, but ignores all the jobs generated here because of that displacement. It's a little like saying "I don't want to acquire stock worth $10,000 because I need to pay $100 for it." Don't you need to see if there's a better way to make a 10,000% return on your investment?

Yes, trade with Mexico (and Canada and Europe and Asia and . . .) displaces some American jobs. Then propose something that helps those displaced, but not at the cost of the benefit to all the rest of the country. Incidentally, at least Ford and Nabisco (targets of the Donald's latest tirades against shifting production to Mexico) did so in large part because Mexico has free trade agreements with the EU that are superior to those of the U.S.

But enough of economic truth. The fact remains that I take both Trump's racist comments and HRC's lies very seriously, and find both candidates morally diminished and reprehensible. If I have to choose one, though, Clinton's lies pose less of a threat to the well-being of the U.S. than Trump's stupidity as demonstrated by his racist rhetoric. Despite the mainstream media's love affair with the Clintons, if she does something truly degenerate (e.g. Bill with Monica), the truth will come out. The MSM will spin it, of course, but we have easier ways of overcoming her tendency toward deception than Donald's tendency toward economic destruction.

John
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:59am PT
Then what the hell are you going to do, John?

Not vote at all, because all politicians lie?

Any politician you've ever voted for fudged the truth or outright lied. Politics is ugly- always has been, always will be.

And sitting it out because you are so disgusted is understandable, but that idealism does NOTHING to change ANYTHING.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:00am PT
Roger Stone is the biggest liar in American Politics

What ever he says, it's a lie
Norton

Social climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:02am PT
ok guys, help me out?

I am aware that some years ago when Hillary was overseas she said that the immediate area she was in experienced firearms firing or something like that.

She has since stated that she was wrong, her group was not "under fire".

Ok, so I assume this is the "lie" that is the basis for her being "liar", is this correct?

I watched every damn hour of the Benghazi Hearings and have read the available transcripts and I am not aware of any "lying" that she did to the committee.

So make the case with supportive links from multiple credible sources that she is a liar

and no, googling Hillary Lies and copy and pasted is not good enough

seriously, if she IS a congenital and continual liar lacking in morality make the case.

maybe I will change my vote or not vote at all......after I compare all her lies to those of Bernie Sanders and Trump
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:05am PT
and HRC's lies very seriously,

which lies?

the ones they made up about her
or the ones she has said she was wrong about

and PLeaseeeee don't mention sniper fire
she said she made it up to embellish her story about the trip
nothing John Long doesn't do on a daily schedule

does she lie as much as Paul Ryan, No
Mitch McConnell, No
which politician does she lie more than?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:12am PT
The "everybody does it" argument I see in the response to John M's observations about Clinton's dishonesty represents that classic Clinton spin, but it ignores degree and tendencies. It's as ridiculous as Hillary's camp saying that "Powell and Rice sent messages by private email servers, too." The issue isn't did anyone else ever send a government communication by private email server; the issue is did anyone else set up a private email server to route all government communication through it, thereby circumventing record keeping requirements.

Yes, every politician (and probably every person on this forum) has failed to tell the truth at least once. The question is whether secrecy and deception form a pattern or an anomaly. The State Department I.G.'s report demonstrates that almost every explanation and excuse HRC and her surrogates gave about her private email server was untrue, and that she never came clean of her own accord. That, alone, is more than sufficient evidence to conclude that deception is her M.O. It bothers me that we try to minimize that solely because we have less to fear from that behavior than the irrationality of Trump. Can't we honestly admit that all our candidates have issues, and then compare those issues?

John
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:12am PT
nothing John Long doesn't do on a daily schedule

Wait.

You mean Tirada Los tubos is made up?

Aw....gee.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:14am PT
those jobs in Mexico generate about 6,000,000 jobs in the United States.

Could someone please post the number of "those jobs in Mexico" that generate 6 million. So's we can get some ratios.
-The Wizard of Odds
John M

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:14am PT
Politics is ugly- always has been, always will be.

the ugliness in politics is a reflection of the ugliness in people. So in a certain sense. yes.. we have to accept that ugliness is a part of politics.


I do believe though that there is a place for honesty and decency and compassion in politics. And for your word meaning something. And I do not believe that people who are honest and decent have to be powerless.

If it always will be.. then letting it sink of its own ugliness just might be the best thing that one could do.

thankfully I believe that people can change. And thus politics can change.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:15am PT
Norton and Craig, did you read the State Department I.G.'s report, and compare it to what HRC said at the time or elsewhere? Your attitude toward that report - i.e. ignoring it and what we all heard and read - amounts to burying your heads in the sand.

You're both better than that.

John
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:18am PT


[Click to View YouTube Video]
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:19am PT
I'm out.. no point in this discussion. you are only looking for ways to pick apart what I am saying instead of trying to understand meaning.

good luck with that.

There's prizes soon.... stick with it!

dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:26am PT
There's your f*#king prize

wall of wank
Norton

Social climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:29am PT
Norton and Craig, did you read the State Department I.G.'s report, and compare it to what HRC said at the time or elsewhere? Your attitude toward that report - i.e. ignoring it and what we all heard and read - amounts to burying your heads in the sand.

no John, i admit I have not taken the time to read that report

and I will take your word that it is more proof of Hillary Clinton's moral failure

absolutely I accept that she IS a flawed person and frankly lacks charisma campaigning

I also know that Bernie Sanders lies his own ass off and Trump, we all know about him

So now we have candidates who ALL are morally flawed, arguably "liars"

what to do? stay home and don't vote?

that would ease my own conscience in voting for a liar....
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:32am PT
All of this back & forth hairsplitting about what Hillary said or did and how close to the truth it is is nothing more than the distraction that the spinmeisters on the Right precisely intend.


Besides keeping the Hillary Haterz on the Right lathered up, it even gets those on the Left talking about it, undermining their own cause.

Classic Republican political strategizing.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:34am PT
From the desk of the mighty Klimmer:

That is the definition of being a Hypocrite.

Pot, meet kettle.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:39am PT
regardless of what Apogee rightly calls hairsplitting about who lied less or more...

bottom line - Hillary DOES win the Presidency in a modern day Landslide

down ballot voting probably gives the US Senate back to the Dems

while the House remains Republican

and just like Obama since 2010 when the Repubs took over the House, zero legislation gets passed that benefits any of the "classes"

nothing more than dinner party guests coming out of the White House, except nominating SC judges
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:40am PT

damn last couple pages shows liberals heads are going to EXPLODE!!!! lol
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:44am PT
Ah, Klimmer, it's starting to make sense........... from David Ferguson, Rawstory:

Many Americans are currently struggling with friends and relatives who insist that when November comes, they will vote for presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump. Given the erstwhile reality TV star’s penchant for blatant racism, gross sexism, nativism and xenophobia, his hair-trigger temper and parchment-thin skin, it is abundantly clear that no political party in living memory has ever run a candidate less suited to the pressures and obligations of the Oval Office.

Fusion writer David Matthews noted, however, that Trump supporters can be devilishly impervious to facts and reason. The thrice-bankrupted real estate mogul has tailored his sales pitch to the Republican base in such a way that his followers are stubbornly resistant to facts, blind to the billionaire’s hypocrisies and mulishly determined to cast their vote for him.

“Convincing a Trump supporter to back down from their views requires a tactical, professional approach,” Matthews wrote. “So I called a cult deprogramming expert, and asked him how to convince Trump supporters to change their minds.”

You can read the whole thing here:

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/cult-deprogrammer-heres-how-to-stage-an-intervention-for-your-trump-supporting-friend/
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:45am PT
Could someone please post the number of "those jobs in Mexico" that generate 6 million. So's we can get some ratios.
-The Wizard of Odds

Here you go, zBrown:

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/Working%20Together%20Full%20Document.pdf

So now we have candidates who ALL are morally flawed, arguably "liars"

what to do? stay home and don't vote?

that would ease my own conscience in voting for a liar....

As I said on the previous page, Norton, you acknowledge her flaws, and vote for her because her flaws pale by comparison to her alternative's. I just find the idea that HRC's dishonesty is a product of the evil right-wing conspiracy counterproductive for two reasons: (1) it lacks credibility, given the substantial, objective evidence to the contrary, and therefore (2) it gives an excuse for Trump supporters to ignore arguments why we should vote for her, despite her imperfections.

(and just to clarify, I'm not accusing you of calling it a vast right wing conspiracy. I just think the argument benefits from acknowledging her flaws, so those unfamiliar with you and your arguments don't wrongly conclude that you're ignoring those flaws.)

John
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:46am PT
"and just like Obama since 2010 when the Repubs took over the House, zero legislation gets passed that benefits any of the "classes""

Hopefully that won't exactly be the case...Hillary is more likely to be brassknuckled with those knuckleheads, and we might see a littttle more progress than with Obama.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:51am PT
apogee posted
All of this back & forth hairsplitting about what Hillary said or did and how close to the truth it is is nothing more than the distraction that the spinmeisters on the Right precisely intend.


It shouldn't be hairsplitting. We should not be scared to admit that our leaders fall down. We often set them up to fall. Take a look at the legislative accomplishments of 2015. Why did we finally pass a budget? Because McConnell, Ryan and Obama met in secret and quietly agreed on things. Our politics have become so hypercritical and so damning that we have created an environment where the only way for things to do the job we asked them to do is for our government to hide it's most basic functions from us.

Our system REQUIRES compromise. It is a feature, not a bug. If you demand purity from a system not designed to handle it, you get what you ask for: people who claim purity and then turn around and compromise.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:52am PT
Hillary is more likely to be brassknuckled with those knuckleheads, and we might see a littttle more progress than with Obama.

We must be observing different behavior, apogee. While I agree that HRC is more likely to get some things done, I think it's because she is more likely to approach the Republicans as the opposition, rather than as the enemy (her rhetoric to the contrary in the primaries notwithstanding). In over 35 years of rough-and-tumble negotiating, I've never seen anyone employing the neogtiating strategy of the current administration reach a consensual agreement.

I'm hoping that after Trump gets thrashed, that the idiot wing of my party - and that of its opposition - will be sufficiently de-fanged to start dealing with the problems of this country rather than trying to enforce ideological purity.

Of course, while that's my hope, it, sad to say, is not my expectation.

John

Edit:
Our system REQUIRES compromise. It is a feature, not a bug. If you demand purity from a system not designed to handle it, you get what you ask for: people who claim purity and then turn around and compromise.

Amen, HDDJ!
Norton

Social climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:52am PT
from winemaker's link:

Appeal to authority.

“To sway a Trump supporter, perhaps you’d begin by identifying people she respects, and seeing which of those people have spoken out in opposition to Trump. If the Trump supporter is a huge basketball fan, perhaps show him Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s open letter to Trump supporters. If she’s an avid ‘House of Cards’ fan, consider showing her a video of Kevin Spacey blasting Trump’s policies,” said Matthews.

Untangle myths.

“It’s helpful to show, in the leader’s own words, how they’ve been misleading or said things that are disingenuous or even lies. That begins to shake the faith of a true believer,” said Ross.

Miller added, “For a Trump supporter, this might mean showing them evidence that immigrants don’t actually commit more crimes than native-born Americans, or that you’re more likely to get shot by a toddler than a Muslim terrorist. It might mean fact-checking some incorrect assertions Trump has made about ISIS’ oil holdings in Libya, or gently correcting some misinformation he’s spread about Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders.”

Norton

Social climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:56am PT
Why did we finally pass a budget? Because McConnell, Ryan and Obama met in secret and quietly agreed on things.


followed by pure personal bias and BS

I've never seen anyone employing the neogtiating strategy of the current administration reach a consensual agreement.
\

damn it, just when you start to believe.......john reverts back
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 12:01pm PT
What we've all learned in the past six months or so is just how truly paper thin and flimsy Republican principles are. It's been a real eye opener, that's for sure.

Then again, there's been so much change in this modern era, unprecedented in history actually, perhaps nothing less should've been expected from the GOP.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 7, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
Yeah, the Democrat morals are bedrock. hahahaha
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
"Bend over a little more, Paul..."

Paul Ryan Calls Donald Trump’s Attack on Judge ‘Racist,’ but Backs Him Still

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/us/politics/paul-ryan-donald-trump-gonzalo-curiel.html?_r=0
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
Oh good, Esco's here. Now we can have some real yellow custard arse spewing.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
On the night of Barack Obama’s inauguration, a group of top GOP luminaries quietly gathered in a Washington steakhouse to lick their wounds and ultimately create the outline of a plan for how to deal with the incoming administration.

“The room was filled. It was a who’s who of ranking members who had at one point been committee chairmen, or in the majority, who now wondered out loud whether they were in the permanent minority,” Frank Luntz, who organized the event, told FRONTLINE.

Among them were Senate power brokers Jim DeMint, Jon Kyl and Tom Coburn, and conservative congressmen Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy and Paul Ryan.

After three hours of strategizing, they decided they needed to fight Obama on everything. The new president had no idea what the Republicans were planning.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-republicans-plan-for-the-new-president/
Norton

Social climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
TIME just published “The Party of No,

” an article adapted from my new book, The New New Deal: The Hidden Story of Change in the Obama Era. It reveals some of my reporting on the Republican plot to obstruct President Obama before he even took office, including secret meetings led by House GOP whip Eric Cantor (in December 2008) and Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (in early January 2009) in which they laid out their daring (though cynical and political) no-honeymoon strategy of all-out resistance to a popular President-elect during an economic emergency.

“If he was for it,” former Ohio Senator George Voinovich explained, “we had to be against it.” The excerpt includes a special bonus nugget of Mitt Romney dissing the Tea Party

http://swampland.time.com/2012/08/23/the-party-of-no-new-details-on-the-gop-plot-to-obstruct-obama/
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 7, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
my point was that the concerns of those who had issues with Hillary were ignored and belittled from the beginning.

What the hell are you talking about? She's about to win the nomination by MILLIONS of votes (including mine today) and become the first woman to do so. She won and she's going to keep on winning in November.

You wanted Dem's to find another person? Huh? No, I'll take the brilliant person who just WON the nomination.

Your attitude comes off as arrogant and privileged. You must think your vote counts more than other people. You had your candidate, other people had theirs. Yours lost. Welcome to democracy.

I'm hoping that after Trump gets thrashed, that the idiot wing of my party - and that of its opposition - will be sufficiently de-fanged to start dealing with the problems of this country rather than trying to enforce ideological purity.
Well said, John.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 7, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
Democrats obstructing Republicans (or visa versa) to such a degree that nothing gets done and no "progress" is made would be the single best outcome the country has seen in decades.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 7, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
Any politician you've ever voted for fudged the truth or outright lied.

exactly, and the only real job a politician could get would be as a used car salesperson.

klimmer, when you start quoting legitimate, and unbiased sources, I may start listening to what you are saying.

Democrats obstructing Republicans (or visa versa) to such a degree that nothing gets done and no "progress" is made would be the single best outcome the country has seen in decades.

where have you been the last eight years, oh yeah, Idaho.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
It won't fix the cult of conservatism wherein conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed. This is a huge departure from it and we will simply fall back to baseline when it's done. "Trump wasn't a real conservative" etc. etc.. Assuming there's still a Republican Party in November.

This ignores, of course, that conservatives couldn't even win in their own conservative constituency, ceding the nomination to a blowhard idiot.

What's worse is he used their playbook.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 12:47pm PT
This ignores, of course, that conservatives couldn't even win in their own conservative constituency, ceding the nomination to a blowhard idiot.

What's worse is he used their playbook.

very true, and most importantly the base of the Republican party has greatly changed

changed from Eisenhower and Reagan responsible adults to mouth breathing knuckle draggers

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
Yes, Buckley brought forth Trump.

Hardly, whatever you thought of his politics, he was an intellectual. His favorite thing was to challenge the ideas behind his opponents, not to just attack them.The people he influenced were folks like Goldwater, Reagan and Bob Dole. I can't think of a tea party conservative or any of Trumps blather that reflects Buckley's ideology.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
Thanks for the article JE. It's a long article and I skimmed it pretty quickly, but I don't see anything in it that draws your conclusion about how jobs displaced from the U.S. are generating jobs in the U.S.

Thus, he looks only at the jobs displaced from here to south of the border, but ignores all the jobs generated here because of that displacement


For example:

As the second largest destination for U.S. exports and third
largest source of imports, 6 million U.S. jobs depend on trade
with Mexico.

Then references page 73.

State level trade data for 2010 is from: U.S. Department of Commerce, U.S.
Census Bureau, Foreign Trade Statistics. State level trade data from 1993–2010,
as represented in the graphs, is from: U.S. Census Bureau, with adjustments by
the World Institute for Strategic Economic Research (WISER) and SE-NAFTA,
1993–1999 SIC, and 2000–2005 NAICS. The 2010 figures on state exports to
Mexico from each of these sources are identical.
Employment statistics are based on 2008 data, and are from: Trade Partnership
Worldwide, LLC/U.S. Chamber of Commerce, 2010. These statistics
were estimated using a computable multi-sector model of the U.S. economy
and include direct and indirect effects. They are comprehensive measures of the
employment effects of exports and imports of both goods and services. The figures
were estimated using the Global Trade Analysis Project computable general
equilibrium (CGE) model, as updated for 2008 by Laura Baughman and Joseph
Francois, working with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. For more information
on their methodology, see: Laura M. Baughman and Joseph F. Francois, Opening
Markets, Creating Jobs: Estimated U.S. Employment Effects of Trade with FTA Partners,
Washington, DC: U.S. Chamber of Commerce, May 14, 2010.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
Fair point, zBrown. It's not easy to estimate the number of jobs created by increased trade, and it's probably impossible to estimate the result of the counterfactual, namely what would happen if NAFTA were never enacted. The 6 million jobs he estimates to be directly connected to trade doesn't differentiate between pre-and post-NAFTA jobs, and probably could not.

The other problem is estimating the indirect and induced effects of that trade. Interestingly (for me), I'm currently working on a project estimating the economic effect of a railroad spur on an urban area. In that instance, however, proprietary programs provide input-output analysis that makes my job much easier. I wonder how difficult (and how statistically valid) it would be to estimate similar input-output matrices for international trade.

In any case, thanks for the response.

John
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
I think JE is more dishonest than Hillary

Craig, I'm using every trick to avoid working this afternoon, so your post got me thinking. Do degrees of dishonesty exist, or are degrees of dishonesty similar to degrees of pregnancy?

;-)

John
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
^^^
I was hoping to get you to think about it.



Voting for President is just like voting for legislation, yes or no
you are either for it or against it, yes or no

Here is what you are voting for, Trump as President
Yes or No

for Yes, you vote for Trump
for No, you vote for Hillary

it's not that hard to figure out


a vote for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson is a vote for Trump by default, since it's not a NO vote against him.
It's a wasted vote as far as your vote deciding who the President will be.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
They're jumping off the SS Donald as fast as they can...can he last until November? Why did it take so long for them to realize they nominated a total racist?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mark-kirk-rescinds-trump-support

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
They're jumping off the SS Donald as fast as they can...can he last until November?

Where were they when we needed them? Chump hasn't changed. He keeps his empty head out there for all to see. The sad thing to me is that his outrageous talk seems to be what attracts his supporters. They're so fed up with political correctness and the speech police that they view his outrages as a sort of civil disobedience. Quite disheartening to me. As I said (or at least meant to say) yesterday, anger makes a poor governing policy.

John
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
The thinking was he'd pivot into general election mode and they would overlook his precious comments as he became "presidential". They're realizing he can't/won't. It's his nature.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
John, you've never spoken so sensibly as of late. Keep it coming!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
They're so fed up with political correctness and the speech police


I don't think this has anything to do with it
It's just the time for the Ugly Americans to come out and wave their dirty white trash around like they own the place all of a sudden
and let fly words from their racist filled minds that they know are damaging to people, but don't care.

Economic downturns cause the fearful to run in the direction of a right wing Fascist leader that promises to cure all your problems, and someone to blame for your failings

Trump made it OK to be stupid, vial, angry, racist and ugly, he is their cult leader
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
app said...
Oh good, Esco's here. Now we can have some real yellow custard arse spewing.

boy oh boy you have never been this much of an ass before, ever.

really classy

Norton

Social climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
Good post, JohnE
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
for Yes, you vote for Trump
for No, you vote for Hillary

Or you don't vote.

Duality shot to hell.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
"fed up with political correctness"


Since when did respectful dialogue with anyone become something we need to abandon?

No, the empty-headed morons who are rabidly human-caterpillaring to Trump simply enjoy the opportunity to speak their unfiltered 'minds'. They are dragging down our political system...nay, our very species...with their hatred.

Edit: It's all about context, guyman. And you missed it, unfortunately.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
a no vote is a vote for Trump

YOU HAVE To Vote against Trump for it to count
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 02:04pm PT

Jun 7, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
a no vote is a vote for Trump

YOU HAVE To Vote against Trump for it to count

Haha. Not in my reading of the electoral college.

It's a vote to let the other morons duke it out. And it shoots the "mandate" argument in the foot.

It is what usually happens when both parties don't produce a compelling candidate.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 7, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
Worthless POS Chump tries to walk back his racist rhetoric.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-issues-statement-%E2%80%98unfortunate%E2%80%99-my-attacks-on-judge-were-%E2%80%98misconstrued%E2%80%99-as-racist/ar-BBtZ8Gn?li=BBnb7Kz

He doesn't give a sh*t about anyone but himself. If you can't see that, you are blind. He doesn't even apologize. He thinks he can say the same thing over and over for days, and then take it back when everyone calls him on it.

His zombie, racist hoard won't care, they will stumble along drooling "Chump, Chump, Chump" all the same.
Coach37

Social climber
Philly
Jun 7, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
"Don't blame the Mexicans though. They need to eat too"

Let them eat pan dulce.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 7, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
STATEMENT REGARDING TRUMP UNIVERSITY

It is unfortunate that my comments have been misconstrued as a categorical attack against people of Mexican heritage. I am friends with and employ thousands of people of Mexican and Hispanic descent. The American justice system relies on fair and impartial judges. All judges should be held to that standard. I do not feel that one’s heritage makes them incapable of being impartial, but, based on the rulings that I have received in the Trump University civil case, I feel justified in questioning whether I am receiving a fair trial.

Over the past few weeks, I have watched as the media has reported one inaccuracy after another concerning the ongoing litigation involving Trump University. There are several important facts the public should know and that the media has failed to report.

Throughout the litigation my attorneys have continually demonstrated that students who participated in Trump University were provided a substantive, valuable education based upon a curriculum developed by professors from Northwestern University, Columbia Business School, Stanford University and other respected institutions. And, the response from students was overwhelming. Over a five year period, more than 10,000 paying students filled out surveys giving the courses high marks and expressing their overwhelming satisfaction with Trump University’s programs. For example:

Former student Tarla Makaeff, the original plaintiff in the litigation, not only completed multiple surveys rating Trump University’s three-day seminar “excellent” in every category, but also praised Trump University’s mentorship program in a glowing 5 plus minute video testimonial. When asked “how could Trump University help to meet [her] goals”, she simply stated “[c]ontinue to offer great classes.” Once the plaintiffs’ lawyers realized how disastrous a witness she was, they asked to have her removed from the case. Over my lawyers’ objections, the judge granted the plaintiffs’ motion, but allowed the case to continue.

Art Cohen, a lead plaintiffs in the litigation, completed a survey in which he not only rated Trump University’s three-day seminar “excellent” in virtually every category, but went so far as to indicate that he would “attend another Trump University seminar” and even “recommend Trump University seminars to a friend.” When asked how Trump University could improve the seminar, Mr. Cohen’s only suggestion was to “[h]ave lunch sandwiches brought in” and make the lunch break 45 minutes.

Former student Bob Giullo, who has been critical of Trump University in numerous interviews and negative advertisements from my political opponents, also expressed his satisfaction, rating Trump University’s programs “excellent” in every category. When asked how Trump University could improve its programs, Mr. Giullo simply asked that students be provided “more comfortable chairs.”

Indeed, these are just a few of literally thousands of positive surveys, all of which can be viewed online at www.98percentapproval.com.

For those students who decided that Trump University’s programs were not for them, the company had a generous refund policy, offering a full refund to any student who asked for their money back within 3 days of signing up for a program or by the end of the first day of any multi-day program, whichever came later.

Normally, legal issues in a civil case would be heard in a neutral environment. However, given my unique circumstances as nominee of the Republican Party and the core issues of my campaign that focus on illegal immigration, jobs and unfair trade, I have concerns as to my ability to receive a fair trial.

I am fighting hard to bring jobs back to the United States. Many companies – like Ford, General Motors, Nabisco, Carrier – are moving production to Mexico. Drugs and illegal immigrants are also pouring across our border. This is bad for all Americans, regardless of their heritage.

Due to what I believe are unfair and mistaken rulings in this case and the Judge’s reported associations with certain professional organizations, questions were raised regarding the Obama appointed Judge’s impartiality. It is a fair question. I hope it is not the case.

While this lawsuit should have been dismissed, it is now scheduled for trial in November. I do not intend to comment on this matter any further. With all of the thousands of people who have given the courses such high marks and accolades, we will win this case!
Donald J. Trump
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
Throughout the litigation my attorneys have continually demonstrated that students who participated in Trump University were provided a substantive, valuable education based upon a curriculum developed by professors from Northwestern University, Columbia Business School, Stanford University and other respected institutions. And, the response from students was overwhelming. Over a five year period, more than 10,000 paying students filled out surveys giving the courses high marks and expressing their overwhelming satisfaction with Trump University’s programs.

If you believe that you are dumber than a stump.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 03:02pm PT
The guy is a racist of garbage for saying his judge should be disqualified solely because of his Mexican heritage. He's a dispicable liar who is merely covering his tracks.

Trump supporters who buy this crock of sh#t are either racists and/or gullible.

Really, who cares what Klimmer and pyro think? They drunk the kool aid and joined the cult long ago.

Now, however, most normal Americans are getting a good hard look at trump.

Oh, and there's this too:


F*#k him.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
I wonder if it has occurred to Drumph that the "Mexican" judge will be presiding over his fraud case after all and nobody cares but him?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
Uhhh...Klimmer? How many times do you need to be told that the FBI does not judge people?


As for Trump, I'd like to see this as a Twitter Hashtag #TrumpTrainWreck

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
FBI Finds Clinton guilty •

You have confused the FBI with the Gestapo.

The FBI Is not a court. They don't find people guilty - not even Trump for fraud.

Here in Portland we remember when the FBI "conclusively" found Brandon Mayfield's prints in a Madrid bombing case.

It turns out they don't know how to read prints.
Want links to the apologies?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 03:36pm PT
"Chump hasn't changed. "

Man, I can't remember the last time I saw John E use a derogatory derivative of a politician's name, no matter which side of the aisle they are on.

Just goes to show you just how far away from the rational Republican this Party has wandered.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 7, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
^^^^^^^^

I'm glad his supporters posted the whole response. Now everyone can see the level of deceit inherent in everything Chump does.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
When Trump becomes President, his gestapo will throw that lying corrupt bitch Hillary in the slammer likes she belongs, right Klimmer?

He can throw all his enemies in the slammer, and deport the other 11 million he thinks aren't American enough, you know, the ones with brown skin

He'll be doing the lords work beating in heads, starting wars and throwing people in jail

I can't wait to see the deportation squad come down our street in tanks and body armor, going door to door looking for fugitives from the Trump police

with his thin skin, all of America will be in jeopardy

and that is the truth

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 03:47pm PT
"Duh. I didn't come up with the title of the video. "


Duh. No, you just watched every second of it, and believe every minute.


"If he doesn't indict, everyone knows it's political and his legacy is pure corruption."

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
WRONG

I am very awake and mindful of the truth
I study the truth, it's called being a skeptical scientist

and you sir, are way Off the reservation

Nothing you have said about Hillary or Trump remotely resembles the truth
Daphne

Trad climber
Northern California
Jun 7, 2016 - 03:56pm PT
I voted for Hillary. I was/am angry enough to vote for Bernie, but when it came time to color in the oval I had to go with Hillary. I was so turned off by Bernie's most hateful supporters. One of my friends called them the Bernie Bros. I'm an old enough woman to make the achievement of a woman President really inspirational. And I'm old enough to be okay with centrist politics.

Dang it, i meant to post in the Hillary thread. I'm gonna cross post.

Klimmer, you are nuttier than a pecan tree.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jun 7, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
You guys, stop arguing with this doofus. He is an absolute loon. Leave him to his own, pathetic little world (where, unfortunately he has the right to vote) where he can play make believe all day long and fit right in with the rest of the Trump crowd. They deserve each other.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 7, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
This is hilarious. The Chump says the exact same thing about an American born judge for weeks, that virtually everyone, including his own party, says is blatantly racist, and then he says he was "misconstrued"?

If you support Chump, you support a racist. End of story.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 04:03pm PT
You guys, stop arguing with this doofus. He is an absolute loon. Leave him to his own, pathetic little world (where, unfortunately he has the right to vote) where he can play make believe all day long and fit right in with the rest of the Trump crowd. They deserve each other.

Nah. This is more fun than the Ark on the Moon.

The only downside is that he teaches children.

Kind of a bummer, but most kids see through bullsh#t.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 7, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
You have confused the FBI with the Gestapo.

Well, let's be honest, its an easy mistake to make. Lol.
On-Site Flasher 69

Sport climber
Riverside
Jun 7, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
Does anybody actually know Klimmer?
It is so hard to believe that someone from our tribe could be so dumb?
Can Klimmer be a epic troll?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 7, 2016 - 05:38pm PT

When Trump becomes President, his gestapo will throw that lying corrupt bitch Hillary in the slammer likes she belongs, right Klimmer?

He can throw all his enemies in the slammer, and deport the other 11 million he thinks aren't American enough, you know, the ones with brown skin

He'll be doing the lords work beating in heads, starting wars and throwing people in jail

I can't wait to see the deportation squad come down our street in tanks and body armor, going door to door looking for fugitives from the Trump police

with his thin skin, all of America will be in jeopardy

and that is the truth

And klimmer, we know this is want you want, but just remember, after all the Mexicans are gone, and the Muslims are gone, the trump goon squad may come looking for you.


klimmer, you are nuttier than a pecan tree.

Lol!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 7, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
definitely a epic troll
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:13pm PT

That's all you guys got. Fluff no substance. Constant ridicule, name calling, ad hominem attacks. Troll toys.

Where's the debate?

Sad really.

Quit using right wing radio as a source of information. Quit idolizing Sean hannity. Use unbiased sources for info. Learn how to spell God.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 06:32pm PT
Except G_d.

And he's voting for Trump.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
That's all you guys got. Fluff no substance. Constant ridicule, name calling, ad hominem attacks. Troll toys.

Where's the debate?

Sad really.

Yes, it is sad as you have absolutely no desire to 'debate'. I doubt you know that the word means. You are not open to any ideas but your own imaginary god's BS but expect us to operate under your odd and eccentric beliefs and rules. That's not debate, that's obsession. Damn, Klimmer, you don't seem like a bad guy, but reading your 'Massive Ark on the Moon' serial posts was an eye opener; you haven't changed, only the topic has. You sir, and I say this in the kindest way, are nuts. I actually tried to email you a few days ago to offer to send you some wine, but your ST email is turned off.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
Learn respect for G-d, HaShem Adonai Elohim. Learn why Jews and believers give reverence to his name, and we don't use his personal name, or say it, or spell it to avoid using his name in vain.

I've been outta here for quite awhile, but I dropped back in to see this, and I had to laugh.

Klimmer, all due respect, but you sacred-names guys are all alike: Inconsistent.

Look, you say "God" as "G-d" so as to not take his "personal name" in vain. But "God" is not his personal name; it's a title, or at most a "family name," like a surname.

Then, you proceed to actually USE of of his personal names, and you don't dash those sorts of names when you use 'em; you just slam 'em out full-blown.

If you're gonna play that game, at least get informed about what's a name and what's a definite description. Those serve entirely different logical and grammatical roles.

I could respect your effort to show reverence, if it was at least well-informed. But, at present, you are seriously inconsistent.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
All the trademarks of a poser , con-artist...
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
One more thing, Klimmer. Have you learned to keep a proper Sabbath yet from the Jews? You know, the seventh-day one that is the only one ever specified in the Book?

Really off track for this thread, I know, but I'm just curious how deep the inconsistencies go.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
Klimmer_Klammer


I served for 2 years in US Army Honor Guard, Co. E. 3rd U.S. Infantry, Ft. Myer, VA. Saw President Reagan, Bush 1, and everyone down my chain of command. I grew up. Learned to serve my country. Got money for college. It was hard but a very good and memorable experience. I'll never forget it.

GI Jane is hot. Lol.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
Elohim. Learn why Jews and believers give reverence to his name, and we don't use his personal name,

You just did.
" in the beginning, Elohim created the heavens and the Earth" (Gen 1:1)

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Elohim/elohim.html
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
What say you Klimmer? From the Associated Press:

A pair of teleprompters flanked the podium at the Trump National Golf Club in suburban New York City, and the celebrity businessman appeared to be reading from them as he delivered a speech that featured far less of his trademark bluster.

It wasn't the first time Trump has read from the devices — he used them, for instance, when speaking to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee in March — but his reliance on them Tuesday prompted the word "teleprompter" to trend on Twitter and flew in the face of his usual criticism of them.

"I don't use teleprompters," he said in January, criticizing Hillary Clinton for using one. "Wouldn't that be easy, teleprompters? I watched Hillary the other day and she has the biggest teleprompters I've ever seen. In fact, if you're sitting on that side of the room or that side of the room you can't see her because when they are outside, they are painted black and you can't even see her."

Months earlier, he even proclaimed that "if you run for president, you shouldn't be allowed to use teleprompters. Because you don't even know if the guy's smart."

Who's lying here?

Edited to add: But I'm sure Trump has the 'ugest' teleprompters, even bigger than Hillary's. Or so one would assume.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
10K posts tonight. I'm betting.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

There ya go Klimmer!!!!

Edited to add: I'm laughing my ass off!!! I guess I'm easily amused!!! Climbing Thursday, after it cools off.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
Jim, I'm sitting here laughing my ass off like an idiot. I have no idea why this is so funny. Oh well. Seriously, I can't stop laughing. My wife is looking at me strangely.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
If I remember my Hebrew correctly, Elohim is plural. So, there's more than one god?

Well, in the bible, there are many ' thou shalt have no other Elohim before me'

But bible apologists insist it is singular despite following the Semitic plural pattern.

The first reference we know of is as the name for the Ugaric an Cananite pantheons, and the God El ( IL, Eloa) was the chief father god.

Yahweh was one Of his many sons.
(storm, lightning, and mountains)
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 09:12pm PT
This Trump girl on CNN, who's been a regular there,
is something else. She could talk a nail out of a two by four.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:20pm PT
Barf.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:22pm PT
Yep ..... These stoopid politards are incredibly stupid ........







Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:25pm PT
"If a TelePrompter helps to keep Trump in line so he doesn't offend, then ok. He is very good about impromptu speaking, he speaks off the cuff with passion and is good at it, but maybe he needs to use the TelePrompter more so he doesn't offend by being a little crass."


Lois is back.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:43pm PT
For learning purposes, HaShem = The Name, Adonai = Lord, Elohim = not the personal name of G-d (one of many non personal names) and yes it is plural, it refers to G-d's triune nature, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Sorry, no.

Elohim is one of the proper names for God, and the first one mentioned in the Bible. (Gen 1:1)
YHWH (Yahweh) comes much later. ( I Am - Exodus 3:14)
The guy who created the heavens and the earth is named, and it ain't Yahweh who does it.

His full title was EL Elyon ( God Most High) , same as the Cannanite God. He's the guy Melchizidek , king and high priest of Jerusalem, introduced to Abraham. Read your new testament and see that Iesus is called a priest by the order of Melchizidek. (Hebrews 5:10) His God would thus be named El.
His last words to God on the cross call him Eli in Aramaic.

" Eli, Eli lama Sabachthanai"

And the trinity is only ( sort of) settled in 325 AD at the council of Nicea. Hardly any Jews or Muslims subscribe to the concept, nor do all Christians. . The Church called the other cristians Heretics and had the Albigensian Crusade around 1220 to exterminate them. Arians, Nestorians, Coptics etc have different visions of God's nature than yours.

Constantine, Who called the council, was baptized by Eusebius, who was not a trinitarian. Either was St. Helen.

Ghengis Khan's mom was also a Nestorian, BTW.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:54pm PT
Dude, the trinity wasn't invented until a few generations later...
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 10:58pm PT
Read the creed, dude.

What does " of same substance with the father " mean to you?

The version from council of 385 further clarifies, but the concept was there, as was a condemnation for not believing it.

The point is it's not old testament theology.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:10pm PT
We're never gonna make it to 10k tonight at this rate, dudes.

F*#k it. I'm going to bed.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:11pm PT
Shoot. We have a couple more names of God to get through...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 7, 2016 - 11:44pm PT
Read the creed, dude.

That was meant for Klimmer, not you. Elohim [plural] pre-dates the trinity concept by generations.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 12:01am PT
That's a lot of projection, as is the leap for any christian to support trump, a veritable anti-christ if ever there was one.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 12:21am PT
Recall when Yeshua was baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan River, the triune nature of G-d is there in full glory, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

In which Gospel?

Matthew and Mark have a voice addressing an unnamed audience or only Jesus saying it is pleased with a son
And a spirit descending like a dove.
Matt:
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

Mark:
9 At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11 And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”


In Luke apparently it says it to a crowd ( Who hears the voice is not clear. the voice only addresses Jesus) and the dove was apparently a real dove. He emphasizes bodily form.
Luke was written later.

21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

Clearly Jesus was moved, but
Unless all those people are part of a trinity, Jesus isn't. All we have is a voice, a personal vision and dove on his head. ( maybe). Just so we are clear, there are lots of sons of God in the bible, even Cyrus the Great.


And if the trinity was such an important part of the baptism, why doesn't John even mention it?

In fact, if it was such an important concept, why isn't it in any part of the Bible explicitly? It seems it should have been a pretty big deal.

It came out of a bunch of bishops between May 20 and June 19 in 325. They did it on Constantines dime. Those who disagreed were anathemized. At least two ( Arius, Nestor) were reinstated later.

As such, it is not scripture, but church dogma subject to change.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 04:53am PT
Klimmer posted
If a TelePrompter helps to keep Trump in line so he doesn't offend, then ok. He is very good about impromptu speaking, he speaks off the cuff with passion and is good at it, but maybe he needs to use the TelePrompter more so he doesn't offend by being a little crass.

Wherein cartoonish racism is described as "being a little crass."
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 8, 2016 - 06:42am PT
FIVE more posts to this thing and J_sus comes back to Earth.... with gifts I think....

Come on!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 8, 2016 - 06:45am PT
Re Klimmer:

If a TelePrompter helps to keep Trump in line so he doesn't offend, then ok. He is very good about impromptu speaking, he speaks off the cuff with passion and is good at it, but maybe he needs to use the TelePrompter more so he doesn't offend by being a little crass.

Klimmer, it's not that he uses a teleprompter, it's that he lied. I guess now we can't know if he's smart.

Months earlier, he even proclaimed that "if you run for president, you shouldn't be allowed to use teleprompters. Because you don't even know if the guy's smart."
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:06am PT

10b4,
Learn respect for G-d

I am an atheist, how can I respect something that doesn't exist?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:14am PT
Trump
dirtbag

climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:14am PT
Is a
dirtbag

climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:15am PT
racist d#@&%ebag!

10,000, mofos!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:24am PT
Post 10,000 snyper!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:31am PT
Well, I'll be damned.

Mine, mine, miiinnnnneeee!!!!!!!!

Still mine!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:33am PT
Ok...you can have it.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:33am PT
sew dum

vvvvvv I doubt that
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:34am PT
My biggest problem is finding posts worth deleting ;-)
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:34am PT
You're welcome!
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:37am PT
I knew I should have posted to this thread more. I can't find enough posts to delete.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:38am PT
You can have a few of mine.

There's plenty of them.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:42am PT
F*#k off, potatohead.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:43am PT
hater spotted!

http://youtu.be/XkXMRRz4XOY?t=32
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:44am PT
u mad?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:48am PT
Nope.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:49am PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:01am PT
I, too, can bang on a keyboard.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:02am PT
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/8/11873338/donald-trump-racist-racism

Let's imagine, for instance, that a black presidential candidate, Barry Cooker, suggests that a white judge couldn't oversee a lawsuit against him. Here's how that might look, with the wording taken from the Wall Street Journal's report on Trump's racial and ethnic test for a Hispanic judge, except with names and some identifiers switched out:

Mr. Cooker said US District Judge Bob Stevens had "an absolute conflict" in presiding over the litigation given that he was "of white heritage" and a member of a white lawyers' association. Mr. Cooker said the background of the judge, who was born in Indiana to white Americans, was relevant because of his campaign stance against police brutality against black Americans and support for financial reparations to compensate for centuries of anti-black policies like slavery and segregated housing. "I want him to pay reparations. It's an inherent conflict of interest," Mr. Cooker said.

Or we can imagine a Muslim presidential candidate, Karl Edison, arguing that a Jewish judge couldn't oversee a lawsuit against him:

Mr. Edison said US District Judge Bob Stevens had "an absolute conflict" in presiding over the litigation given that he was "of Jewish heritage" and a member of a Jewish lawyers' association. Mr. Edison said the background of the judge, who was born in Indiana to Jewish Americans, was relevant because of his campaign stance against foreign aid to Israel and opposition to Israelis' settlements in the West Bank. "I want Israel to pay for its actions against the Palestinians. It's an inherent conflict of interest," Mr. Edison said.

Writing these words simply feels wrong. A candidate who said any of this would be done by nightfall. Yet Trump has survived.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:03am PT
Where's bluering?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:05am PT
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/8/11881130/bernie-sanders-politico

Bernie Sanders’s aides just threw him under the bus to Politico


There’s no strategist pulling the strings, and no collection of burn-it-all-down aides egging him on. At the heart of the rage against Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party, the campaign aides closest to him say, is Bernie Sanders.

"I don’t know who advised him that this was the right route to take, but we are now actively destroying what Bernie worked so hard to build over the last year just to pick up two f*#king delegates in a state he lost," rapid response director Mike Casca complained to Weaver in an internal campaign email obtained by POLITICO.

"Thank you for your views. I’ll relay them to the senator, as he is driving this train," Weaver wrote back.

Heh.

Glad to know that some people close to him have been echoing my sentiments.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:09am PT
Werner, your posts are always the exact same insults in a new order. I'm pretty sure you have a script that just rearranges the same post in a new configuration.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:12am PT
Where's bluering?

This weekend, when trump's racism came into focus, bluering stood by his man, claiming liberals see racism everywhere.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:14am PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:15am PT
Only racists can see racism.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:24am PT

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 3h3 hours ago
"@Klimmer: @realDonaldTrump I luv yu you're G**D!!!!!!!" Thanks!




Bit time, baby, big time.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:30am PT
Choose your escorts wisely. That Charlie Brown (no relation) is not just a clown.

WASHINGTON – A trial date has been set for two former security guards who pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter in the death of a patient at a Washington hospital.

The Washington Post reports (http://wapo.st/28igAye ) a trial date has been scheduled for July 17, 2017, for 30-year-old Clifton Montgomery and 43-year-old Charles Brown. A grand jury indicted the two last month.

The medical examiner's office said 74-year-old James McBride died of "blunt force injuries" of the neck. McBride's death at MedStar Washington Hospital Center was ruled a homicide.

Hospital officials previously said McBride was a patient when he left Sept. 29 without being formally discharged. Officials said McBride was being escorted back to the hospital by the security guards when an altercation occurred.

Montgomery and Brown were removed from their jobs in November. They will remain out of jail until trial.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:39am PT
Wonder what Linus is up to....
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:17am PT
I wanna bang Ana Quibord, too
c wilmot

climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:33am PT
we have two close family friends and 1% members running for office

the 1% won

the US lost

no point in voting when the election was already paid for
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:35am PT
Trump has the cajones to call the Clintons on "the politics of personal enrichment"?

What an as#@&%e. Talk about the politics of personal enrichment!!

He's an idiot.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:35am PT
all is lost
dirtbag

climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:37am PT
Trump is not a member. They hate him.

I ask G-d to put a massive hedge of protection around him. Elohim protect him. Amen.


Don't worry about a thing, Klimmer. When Hillary is president, she will be sure to protect him.
c wilmot

climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:40am PT
Trump is a close clinton friend

whats dumb is thinking this election is real

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:47am PT
What's dumb is thinking this material existence is real.
c wilmot

climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:52am PT
the 1% should provide adult toys to be handed out to each voter so the American people have something to go F themselves with

at least then the US people would have something to show for their vote which will be ignored
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:53am PT
So what if they are friends
The Clintons are also friends with the Bushs
completely meaningless

No one except 1%ers can run for President, it takes money and Power to even get on the stage


just look what happened when we said they're all the same, so why bother voting, you let W. Bush steal the election

You have to Vote against Right Wing Tyranny
c wilmot

climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:55am PT
who cares if elections are fake?

really?
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:55am PT
I ask G-d to put a massive hedge of protection around him. Elohim protect him. Amen.

G-d doesn't like being told what to do Klimmer. My prediction is that sooner or later He's going to kill you. Maybe even give you a horrible disease first.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:08am PT
who cares if elections are fake?

really?

The internet is fake. My posting is real.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:15am PT
God is not real. It's impossible for him to choose the bigot with the fake hair.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:49am PT
No one except 1%ers can run for President, it takes money and Power to even get on the stage

That's pretty much the definition of a plutocracy, isn't it? Are you OK with that, Craig?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:49am PT
I ask G-d to put a massive hedge of protection around him. Elohim protect him. Amen.

G-d doesn't like being told what to do Klimmer. My prediction is that sooner or later He's going to kill you. Maybe even give you a horrible disease first.


Geez.... kinda harsh eh?

Last I checked Kli_mer doesn't wish death/disease on anyone.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
How about we compromise and give Obama a third term and the Senate to the Dems? That seems fair.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 8, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
WASHINGTON—Appearing frightened and confused by his unexplained new powers, President Barack Obama reportedly pulled members of the White House staff aside Wednesday to inform them of his recently discovered telepathic connection with an Afghanistan-based military drone.

The president, who said he began receiving the unusually vivid visions in April, explained that the grainy, black-and-white bombing runs against senior leaders of the Taliban and al-Qaeda that he now experiences on a near-daily basis appeared to be images from the live video feed of CIA Predator Drone #AA32. According to the visibly shaken commander-in-chief, he can neither control nor anticipate when the chilling scenes will appear.

“It just comes over me and there’s nothing I can do about it—without warning, I’ll feel dizzy and lightheaded, and then all of a sudden, I’m circling high above a mountain range,” said Obama, adding that the powerful, dreamlike images include distant cars and buildings exploding, along with the unmistakable chatter of CIA controllers on the ground. “Then later, when I’m being debriefed on our latest drone strike, I’ll recognize the footage as the exact same scene from my visions. At first, it only happened at night when I was asleep, and I’d wake up drenched in sweat. But after a while, it started happening when I was awake, too, at any hour of the day. I wish I could make them stop, but I can’t.”

“It seems that whatever the drone sees, I see,” he added, trembling. “Our minds have melded into one.”

You can read the whole story here:

http://www.theonion.com/article/obama-discovers-telepathic-connection-military-dro-53059
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
Ok, who's got a duck translator?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 8, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
Trump is a close clinton friend

whats dumb is thinking this election is real

I've always contended Chump's candidacy was a Clinton dirty trick. What's dumb is Republicans thinking his candidacy is good for the country.

John
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:10pm PT

Jun 8, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
Experts: Clinton emails could have compromised CIA names
[DEB RIECHMANN]
June 8, 2016

https://www.yahoo.com/news/experts-clinton-emails-could-compromised-161527775.html


Tick, tick, tick, tick ...

....as opposed to Dick Cheney and Scooter Libby who actually did out CIA agent Valerie Plame to the news media.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
That's pretty much the definition of a plutocracy, isn't it? Are you OK with that, Craig?
Gary

I don't have much choice in the matter.

Since our No. 1 reason to vote is to stop right wing tyranny, we just have to hope that the people our side puts forward someone that doesn't WORK for the 1%

Like Hillary

you can say all kind's of things about Hillary, but she isn't going join the Republicans in allowing crazy conservative legislation to pass through her hands, like Obama mostly did.


Have you heard about Paul Ryan's budget??
How does he sleep at night, the effects of it if implemented would be devastating to 10s of millions of Americans


Consistent with that philosophy, the plan includes a bevy of policies designed to make it much harder for people in need to access federal programs: tougher work requirements for food stamps, housing aid, or cash welfare; eliminating benefits conservatives believe are making improper payments; cutting Social Security; eliminating funding for early childhood education lifeline Head Start; sealing off tax credits from some low-income families; and further allowing states to cut certain programs as they see fit.
The end game, judging by Ryan's stated agenda over the years, is to cut trillions of dollars from a safety net that's already borne heavy blows in the face of increased need in the post-financial crisis era

I hate that guy
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
....as opposed to Dick Cheney and Scooter Libby who actually did out CIA agent Valerie Plame to the news media.

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it....
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
What's dumb is Republicans thinking his candidacy is good for the country.

I'll contend that what is dumb is that folks think Republicans are good for the country.

We started a list a while ago, jotting down all the good things Republicans have done for our country. As I remember, the first line item was blank when we all got bored waiting for additional things to be added, and we went on to other things.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:21pm PT




[quote]you can say all kind's of things about Hillary, but she isn't going join the Republicans in allowing crazy conservative legislation like Obama did[quote]


What crazy conservative legislation did Pres. Obama sign into law?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
What crazy conservative legislation did Pres. Obama sign into law?

Yes. Please, do tell.

John
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
Correct me if I'm worong, but the ACA doesn't allow negotiations on pharmaceuticals, does it.

Whose idea was that?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
there's not a Damn thing Republicans have done for this Country since Nixon

They are the major cause of almost every problem we have to endure

What's amazing is, that people are stupid enough to vote for them

Our examples of Republicans here on ST fit the profile perfectly
They don't care if they vote for more pain and suffering, because it's a religion to them, it's "make all sacrifices to the brainwashing leaders, do as they say, repeat these talking points".
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
The TTP is not Law yet, but he let the Republicans dupe him to thinking it should be law.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
We started a list a while ago, jotting down all the good things Republicans have done for our country. As I remember, the first line item was blank when we all got bored waiting for additional things to be added, and we went on to other things.

1. The Emancipation Proclamation.

Wow, we had to go back how long before somebody could name one thing?
You sure showed us!


So, who do you think Lincoln would have voted for in the field of 17 GOP 2016 candidates?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
What have the Republicans done that was good since Nixon?

NOTHING
Every bit of it was bad and truly damaging

Almost every problem we now face had it's start in the Reagan Revolution



VVVV
W Bush admin approved the Republican law so that Medicare could not negotiate drugs, at a cost of something like 650 billion per year
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
Correct me if I'm worong, but the ACA doesn't allow negotiations on pharmaceuticals, does it.

Whose idea was that?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Pelosi and Reid excluded Republicans from any discussion on the ACA, so to the extent the Democrats dislike any element of it, they have only themselves to blame.

Incidentally, I believe the prohibition was on the importation of drugs manufactures in the U.S. I doubt that the ACA prevents negotiation of pharmaceutical prices. If it did that, the greedy Big Pharma would set the prices at infinity.

John
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
Since our No. 1 reason to vote is to stop right wing tyranny

My number one goal in voting is to do right by all Americans.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
Gary
So you would allow right wing tyranny to win with a virtual yes vote
you wouldn't bother voting against it

How is that helping the people?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:40pm PT
Lincoln was a liberal
he would have voted for a Democrat

The parties reversed sides back then
Norton

Social climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
Correct me if I'm worong, but the ACA doesn't allow negotiations on pharmaceuticals, does it.

you are wrong, the ACA drug plans allow the individual insurers to negotiate drug prices

Norton

Social climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Pelosi and Reid excluded Republicans from any discussion on the ACA, so to the extent the Democrats dislike any element of it, they have only themselves to blame.

JohnE, you are wrong, stop it, you are an adult, you can look things up yourself

https://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/republican-ideas

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/prescriptions/2009/07/this_is_what_bipartisanship_looks_like.html
dirtbag

climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
The billionaire is hurting big time for money.

Hillary is expected to raise 1 billion for her campaign.

Trump originally hoped to raise a billion, but according to sources 300,000,000 is more likely. Few want to donate, and few want to make phone calls on his behalf.


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/donald-trump-donors-billion-224080


According to several other sources, his campaign is huuuuuugely understaffed, too.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it

Convicted in court, Scooter was sentenced 30 months in the federal pen before his sentence was commuted ( he was not pardoned) by GWB, who likely approved the high treason of revealing the name of a secret agent.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooter_Libby

He was Cheney's chief of staff. The relationship between the two was legendary .. Cheney, btw, has been convicted along with Bush and several others of war crimes. They won't be doing a lot of traveling outside a few countries.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 8, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
Norton, since you (and Google) first lead to left-leaning sites, I'll give you the Republicans' counter arugments, acknowledging that they're self-serving and biased, just like every other source I've read:

https://www.gop.com/obamacare-backroom-deals/

You seem to say that if the Republicans said "no deal," that there might as well be no negotiations. When I said yesterday that I never saw a consensual deal reached using the current' administration's negotiating tactics, I was referring to its response to that situation. I suspect you, too, have dealt with people whose initial position was "my way or the highway," and still were able to make a deal by focusing on shared objectives. The administration's default position remains public villification of its opponents, rather than a search for shared objectives. When it deviates from that position (e.g., the current budget deal), it obtains consensual agreements.

John
Norton

Social climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jun 8, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
I've always contended Chump's candidacy was a Clinton dirty trick. What's dumb is Republicans thinking his candidacy is good for the country.

I don't usually go in for crazy conspiracy theories but it would certainly explain a lot.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jun 8, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Pelosi and Reid excluded Republicans from any discussion on the ACA, so to the extent the Democrats dislike any element of it, they have only themselves to blame.

Fair enough, I stand corrected...


So, it was the Dems who took out single payer?
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jun 8, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Pelosi and Reid excluded Republicans from any discussion on the ACA, so to the extent the Democrats dislike any element of it, they have only themselves to blame.

Oh please, like the Republican this could break Obama crowd, would have voted for this legislation under any circumstances.

Once Ted Kennedy was lost, the legislation needed every single non R senator to pass. So every D and the one or two I's had a personal veto. The ACA improved the status quo but it left a lot to be desired but wasn't politically possibly.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
"What have the Republicans done that was good since Nixon?"

A reasonable question that never seems to get an answer.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 8, 2016 - 03:25pm PT
So you would allow right wing tyranny to win with a virtual yes vote
you wouldn't bother voting against it

I prefer to vote for what I want, not what I'm against.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
WASHINGTON — Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) accused Republicans of pure political obstruction of President Barack Obama’s judicial nominees Wednesday, prompting a shrug from Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), who objected to her attempt to expedite 15 long-stalled appointees.

Warren took to the Senate floor in the afternoon seeking unanimous consent to bring up all the noncontroversial judges who have passed the Senate Judiciary Committee, but have not received votes on the Senate floor.

Pointing to a report she released Monday, the Massachusetts senator noted that Republicans have been approving nominees at a glacial pace since taking over the Senate in 2014, approving just 18 judges in this Congress. Judicial vacancies have skyrocketed from 43 to 89


Are you proud the ass holes you support, JohnE?



lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jun 8, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
“WASHINGTON—Appearing frightened and confused by his unexplained new powers, President Barack Obama reportedly pulled members of the White House staff aside Wednesday to inform them of his recently discovered telepathic connection with an Afghanistan-based military drone.

The president, who said he began receiving the unusually vivid visions in April, explained that the grainy, black-and-white bombing runs against senior leaders of the Taliban and al-Qaeda that he now experiences on a near-daily basis appeared to be images from the live video feed of CIA Predator Drone #AA32. According to the visibly shaken commander-in-chief, he can neither control nor anticipate when the chilling scenes will appear.

“It just comes over me and there’s nothing I can do about it—without warning, I’ll feel dizzy and lightheaded, and then all of a sudden, I’m circling high above a mountain range,” said Obama, adding that the powerful, dreamlike images include distant cars and buildings exploding, along with the unmistakable chatter of CIA controllers on the ground. “Then later, when I’m being debriefed on our latest drone strike, I’ll recognize the footage as the exact same scene from my visions. At first, it only happened at night when I was asleep, and I’d wake up drenched in sweat. But after a while, it started happening when I was awake, too, at any hour of the day. I wish I could make them stop, but I can’t.”

“It seems that whatever the drone sees, I see,” he added, trembling. “Our minds have melded into one.”

Just goes to show you that the CIA held back on a few secrets. Wiki "SAIC", they shredded their info but look under "Leidos" to find out what SAIC did and still do. Looks like” Stargate” never went away or is back.

They are just beaming Obama with LF frequencies.

Hey! Klimmer looks like you got something right for a change. Quit a few NSA trackers in the last couple of years have quit and have been working for Google but that was before Hillary’s announcement for President.

So +1 on that or looking at different sources for a change.

Your words a few years back on the subject about Torture?

“Torture is illegal. It will never be otherwise. The Geneva Convention and other applicable laws and we signed on to abide by all of them. There is no excuse. It is immoral, unethical, and wrong. To say otherwise then you are also immoral, unethical, and wrong. The decay of society . . . may 2 2011”

So what gives Trumpy wants to bring back waterboarding, torture their wives, children or whatever it takes, More NSA/FBI/local police monitoring? So this is OK with you now or a change of heart?


-1 on that.

Still clueless.

Puppet Trump uses Teleprompters now Klimmer but when one on one his conversational gambits are designed to conceal his own vast ignorance. When he doesn’t know something, he has the habit to change the subject. Rants on about how great he is.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
"can't wait to hear the truth."


Me either.

The fact that you think you will hear it from Trump is beyond pathetic. It's just plain stoooopid. Or a head injury. Or both.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 04:29pm PT

Jun 8, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
"What have the Republicans done that was good since Nixon?"

A reasonable question that never seems to get an answer.

Refresh my memory.

What did Nixon do that was good?

He increased the minimum wage to $2.00 after 5 years of freezing wages and prices to pay for Vietnam.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
Nixon created the EPA and OSHA

and and and

The Endangered Species Act!

But it was probably more the liberal Congress that made those things happen
all he had to do was not veto it.


Lorenzo
weren't you more of a Republican a couple months ago
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jun 8, 2016 - 04:44pm PT
"What have the Republicans done that was good since Nixon?"

A reasonable question that never seems to get an answer.

Let's see, winning the cold war which led to the emancipation of tens of millions of Europeans from the Soviet yoke, hmmmm, seems kind of important, maybe if you have no regard for the lives of anyone outside the US it wasn't that big of deal . .
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
I can't wait to tell the truth, but I won't burn up cycles hereabouts.




zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
Before banging the gong too loudly, somebody should read this Wall Street Jounral article.



After Fall of Berlin Wall, German Reunification Came With a Big Price Tag


For Germany to reinvent East Germany in 1990, as the WSJ author says; “take the stage as Europe’s political and economic centerpiece,” the monetary cost alone has been staggering. The article also mentions West German Finance Minister Theo Waigel’s being stupefied back then at how leadership even assumed the financial feasibility of reunification, without even planning for the long term. So back then, as now, we see western leadership as reactionary, rather than proactive. From Wall Street speculation in Greek bonds before the recent financial crisis, to the most recent sanctions levied on Russia by the US and her allies, it’s a small wonder western economies haven’t crumbled long before now. As for East Germany, 25 years after reunification and the economy there still lags behind the west. In fact, Germany as a whole is now suffering stagnation, after once having been Europe’s economic centerpiece.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jun 8, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
winning the cold war...

LOf*#kingL.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
weren't you more of a Republican a couple months ago

The last one I voted for was Jacob Javits.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 8, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
Donald Trump’s use of Queen’s classic “We Are The Champions” on Tuesday will not continue, according to the group’s guitarist, Brian May.

Rolling Stone reported that May responded quickly on the band’s website after fans alerted him regarding Trump using the song before giving his victory speech following last night’s uncontested Republican Party primaries.

“We certainly have not approved this use of WATC,” May wrote. “I will make sure we take what steps we can to dissociate ourselves from Donald Trump’s unsavoury campaign.”

Trump responds by asserting that according to Trump's lawyers the licensing fees were paid so unfortunately there may be nothing the band members can do about it.

However, not true. From ASCAP, which controls licensing and extracts fees for music use:

If the campaign hasn’t obtained such a license, you can contact them and demand they stop using your work. If, however, the campaign has indeed obtained a blanket license to play the music, you probably don’t have legal grounds to stop them from playing the music or a legal basis for a cease & desist order based on copyright infringement. But there are some potential non-copyright legal claims that a performing artist could level at a campaign. As ASCAP notes, “While the campaign would be in compliance with copyright law, it could potentially be in violation of other laws:”

Right of Publicity laws vary state by state, but they protect famous people’s rights to control the commercial use of their identities.
The Lanham Act is the U.S. Court system’s primary protection against trademark infringement, especially against dilution and and confusion caused by unauthorized use of a trademarked band name.
False Endorsement claims address the implication that an artist supports a political message or candidate because their work is used.

If the group doesn't want you to use their music you shouldn't.

Edited to add: Freddie Mercury wasn't exactly a Republican poster boy; do they even think about this sort of thing?

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
If the group doesn't want you to use their music you shouldn't.

If the group doesn't want you to use their music, they shouldn't have put the rights up for sale.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 05:30pm PT
Republicans are fleeing Trump as he becomes toxic to the Republican Party
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 8, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Your world certainly is black and white Esco.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
I still think that there is a high possibility that the GOP will Dump Trump at the convention

and nominate someone way better, like Paul Ryan/Romney
or Palin, or Cruz,
or some real person that people actually like that changes everything

We have to be prepared for any possibility, since the right wing will work every angle to achieve their goal of winning elections

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
John posted
You seem to say that if the Republicans said "no deal," that there might as well be no negotiations. When I said yesterday that I never saw a consensual deal reached using the current' administration's negotiating tactics, I was referring to its response to that situation. I suspect you, too, have dealt with people whose initial position was "my way or the highway," and still were able to make a deal by focusing on shared objectives. The administration's default position remains public villification of its opponents, rather than a search for shared objectives. When it deviates from that position (e.g., the current budget deal), it obtains consensual agreements.

You've oft repeated this obnoxiously faux-objective viewpoint failing to acknowledge that Obama repeatedly pre-compromised his plans and then came to the table willing to go even further. Boehner, too, was ready to compromise. It was Boehner's caucus that repeatedly took the "my way or the highway" negotiating tactic. Obama's refusal to completely abandon the core his agenda in favor of the Republican's is not a failure to compromise. He repeatedly had liberals frothing at the potential deals he was ready to make.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 8, 2016 - 05:53pm PT
Re: Dump Trump at convention. That won't happen. Can you imagine the conspiracy howling?
The wing nut militias would start putting rounds down range....
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 05:54pm PT

Jun 8, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
Nixon created the EPA and OSHA

and and and

The Endangered Species Act!

But it was probably more the liberal Congress that made those things happen
all he had to do was not veto it.


A veto wouldn't have mattered. The Endangered Species Act passed the Senate 92-0 and 390-12 in the House.
I think maybe a resolution declaring Mothers Day didn't do that well.


He signed the bill on Dec. 28, 1973. This was the month that he was a bit busy explaining the 18 minute gap.

Alexander Haig had to sit before the hearing and say some " sinister force" must have erased the tape. The only General who has looked that stupid in public since was Colin Powell talking about why they found no WMD's.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
They would take Trump down first on some media blitz
then it would be the peoples choice
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
well you proved my point Lorenzo
It was a liberal Congress that pushed the good stuff through
Nixon had nothing to do with it

So we can go back past Nixon to look for anything good that a Right Wing Republican President was responsible for.

Anything good?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 8, 2016 - 06:16pm PT

and in a short while Donald Trump will do and/or say something else really stupid, and further himself even more from his party...

Trumps ego will not let him read many canned speeches(off a Teleprompter), and he's going to say f*#k it, and go back to being trump.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
You've oft repeated this obnoxiously faux-objective viewpoint failing to acknowledge that Obama repeatedly pre-compromised his plans and then came to the table willing to go even further. Boehner, too, was ready to compromise. It was Boehner's caucus that repeatedly took the "my way or the highway" negotiating tactic. Obama's refusal to completely abandon the core his agenda in favor of the Republican's is not a failure to compromise. He repeatedly had liberals frothing at the potential deals he was ready to make.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 06:18pm PT

Jun 8, 2016 - 06:03pm PT


So we can go back past Nixon to look for anything good that a Right Wing Republican President was responsible for.

Anything good?
Eisenhower built the interstate highway system. Tough to call him right wing. He almost ran as a democrat.

When he was head of a tank corps in the 1930's he tried to get a mechanized infantry group across country. It took something like two months.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
Reagan....STAR WARS!!!!

A fiscal conservative who quadrupled the National Debt.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 8, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
If the group doesn't want you to use their music, they shouldn't have put the rights up for sale.

Did they sell the rights to "We are the Champions"? Doesn't sound like it from what was quoted above. It sounds like they still control the rights. Do I have that wrong?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
Now that is indeed curious.

If the Judge is, in fact, a member (and didn't renounce his affiliation following the call for boycott) then not only should the judge recuse himself, if he doesn't, Trump should succeed in his appeal to require it.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
Thanks for more right wing lies Klimmer
You must realize that they make all this sh#t up by now

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
Wow it's true said the boy who cried Trump...
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
not only should the judge recuse himself, if he doesn't, Trump should succeed in his appeal to require it.

Yeah. It's no problem. All he has to do is appeal to the Supreme Court that has a majority that belong to a group that tried to impeach the last two Democratic Presidents.

Oh... Wait. They are one short just now.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
They don't list members in all the various Sub-Organizations. So no clear way to see if he is/was a member.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
This article is a day old.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/06/07/trump-supporters-false-claim-that-trump-u-judge-is-a-member-of-a-pro-immigrant-group/
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
Oooohhh.... Benghazi?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
I love these threads.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
I've yet to hear anyone say they actually read the orders on the motions that the judge wrote and/or that they are somehow glaringly wrong or biased. Sounds like they are pretty standard pre-trial motion rulings to me. Anyway, Trump supporters just assume he is wrong and biased because he's hispanic, thereby demonstrating their own racism.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
Oooohhh.... Benghazi?

Nah.... LA RAZA!!!!!


Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist party?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
I dunno...I have a feeling that Norton, John E, and maybe Fat Dad & dirt probably read such things.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:34pm PT
Thanks Lorenzo,

Since your article confirmed (apparently) that the Judge IS a member of the HISPANIC NATIONAL BAR ASSOCIATION and that group did, in fact, issue a boycott recommendation for all of Trumps businesses and interests....

I'm assuming the judge didn't renounce his membership of the advocacy group upon hearing of the boycott request.


It should go without saying that Trump's questioning of the ability to receive a fair trial from this Judge absolutely has merit.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:36pm PT
Here ya go.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-87501679/


I love the idea that a judge needs to recuse himself for belonging to a barcassociation.

No more trials!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:36pm PT
Esco, are you going to vote for Trump?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:47pm PT


Conservative Radio Host Hugh Hewitt: RNC Must Dump Trump

Hillary Clinton is “gonna be president unless Republicans change their nominee.”

 06/08/2016 10:43 am ET | Updated 7 hours ago
Hugh Hewitt has given up reluctantly supporting Donald Trump as the presumptive GOP nominee.


Conservative talk radio host Hugh Hewitt said on Wednesday that the Republican National Committee should ask Donald Trump to withdraw his candidacy or change the convention rules to prevent his formal nomination.

“The Republican National Committee needs to step in and step up and talk to him about getting out of the race,” Hewitt said on the Hugh Hewitt Show.

The alternative, he said, is a guaranteed victory for presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton — and the loss of Republican control of both houses of Congress.

“She’s gonna be president unless Republicans change their nominee,” Hewitt said. “When the dust clears we will have lost the House, we will have lost the Senate, we will have lost governorships.”

Hewitt discussed the prospect of changing the Republican national convention rules to prevent the pledged delegates from voting Trump in on the first ballot.

“The Republican National Committee can do one thing: they can change the rules to make the first two ballots advisory,” Hewitt said.

He also suggested making the first ballot require a supermajority of votes.

“Make the delegates own it. If you are gonna commit suicide and someone is giving you a gun, don’t blame the gun, don’t blame the guy or the gal who gave you the gun — blame yourself,” he concluded.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
Neither Donald Trump's opinion, or the opinion of other judges shoulder surfing the case from a distance matter in cases of conflict of interest.

Even if Trump came out and said "I got a get ruling!" it wouldn't matter.

The facts are that the judge is a member of a group that has openly requested that all of their members boycott Trumps business and affairs due to their disagreement with his statements and rhetoric.

As a result, there is a conflict of interest. aka "a situation in which the concerns or aims of two different parties are incompatible."

It's obviously perfectly acceptable for the Law Association to declare their boycott and take a stand against Trump. Nothing wrong there. But the Judge, who is a member, when presented with a case concerning it, should have bowed out. And the implication of impropriety is absolutely legitimate.

I can only imagine the howling that would ensue from the tards on here if the Judge was a Trump surrogate (or whatever the f*#k he calls them this week) and didn't remove himself. This is absolutely no different.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:49pm PT
Deepak Chopra: Trump Is ‘Emotionally Retarded, Maybe Mentally Retarded’

The guru lamented how The Donald brings out the “worst” in America—and then proceeded to lob insults.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/08/deepak-chopra-trump-is-emotionally-retarded-maybe-mentally-retarded.html

The political rise of Donald Trump is so disturbing, even New Age guru Deepak Chopra has lost his good vibes.


In an interview Tuesday with Fox News Radio host Alan Colmes, the famed preacher of Transcendental Meditation and alternative medicine unleashed on the presumptive Republican nominee, using a pejorative to describe his mental capacities.


“I would never say this unless I believed it was 100% true, but he represents the racist, the bigot, the one who’s prejudiced, the one who is full of fear and hatred, the one who represents emotional retardation of a three-year old,” he said Tuesday. “And yet he’s so popular because he’s given permission to our collective psyche to express their darkest demons.”
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
Trump needs to demonstrate conflict of interest.

Belonging to a bar association won't meet that test any more than belonging to a party.

Otherwise the scotus that gave Bush the election would have had to recuse itself.

There was demonstrable conflict there. The court voted on straight party lines.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
Belonging to a bar association that publicly advocates that its members boycott Trump's business interests is proof enough. If he had renounced his membership then that would be fine. But, at least as best I can tell, he didn't.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jun 8, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
You don't know what you are talking about.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
And Hewitt has a huge rod, so he speaks for true conservative values
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
Wrong! Good that you have opinion, but irrelevant.

Esc
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
This is Too much!!

America, you're watching the beginning of the end of the Republican Party

By Erick Erickson
· FoxNews.com


The beginning of the end of the Republican Party has started. On Friday, I told you the Republican Party is dying. Then, yesterday, Ross Douthat in the New York Times echoed my key point.

Mine was that the Republican leaders in Washington would see the decline of Donald Trump as proof that they need do nothing to change. Like the Bourbons of France, they’d forget nothing and learn nothing.

On Sunday, Douthat wrote, “In an unhealthy system, the kind I suspect we inhabit, the Republicans will find a way to crush Trump without adapting to his message. In which case the pressure the Donald has tapped will continue to build — and when it bursts, the G.O.P. as we know it may go with it.”

Yes, exactly. The Republican Party is dying because the GOP in DC has gone corporate and K Street. They attack any Republicans who dare hold them to their promises. They’ve gone to war against Heritage Action for America, Club For Growth, the Madison Project, etc. They’ve blackballed any political consultant who does work for outsiders.

But even more importantly, the GOP protects their failed consultants who keep bringing in the bacon.

The GOP has become so incestuous it continues to hemorrhage and will die. It cannot adapt because the key consultants it has shaping its future are wedded to the capital that comes from not changing.

Coach37

Social climber
Philly
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
"Trump's questioning of the ability to receive a fair trial from this Judge absolutely has merit."

The WaPo says:


FOUR PINOCCHIOS. The biggest liar rating they have.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:20pm PT
Jim Brennan, what on earth does any of that drivel have to do with the fact that an association for which this judge is a member of, denounced Trump and CALLED for it's members to boycott all his interests with the clear and stated goal of impacting him negatively and personally, yet claims to remain impartial when hearing his case?

No dice. Trump has an absolutely legitimate claim of questioning whether or not this judge has the ability to remain impartial.

Edited for specifics.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:29pm PT
@ Esco. 'tards'. Pretty big group, eh? What's with the bullshit aggressive demeaning stuff? Can't you argue with reason? Why do you have to be such an ass? A real question; I guess the answer is boredom trolling. How old are you anyway? Many questions, few answers.

Werner is what he is, and most of us accept that; if you read his posts on other topics he's quite rational, but you....... Klimmer is living in a Massive Ark on the Moon and can be excused as he is a teacher, but you, Esco, are constantly angry and obnoxious I'm guessing that's because it gives you some sense of power or something. Really, are things so black and white for you? Your have no ability to be receptive to others ideas or thoughts? Everyone else is just stupid? Seriously, you must be a lonely person to attack so many so much.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:31pm PT
Jim Brennan, what is it that you haven't seen proof of? Both Lorenzo's and Killmer's links show the very thing I'm talking about. So, what's more to it than that?

Whinemaker. You self-identifying with the retards again? That's your problem, not mine.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
No Esco, just curious why you are so angry.
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
Klimmers links point to an Ark on the Moon, you ten gallon Tard.
Two questions Escopedro will not answer, because his answer is yes, and you are to embarrassed...

Will you vote for Trump?
Is there an Ark on the Moon?

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
Potatohead, I'm just curious as to why you are so stooooopid.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:42pm PT

Geez.... kinda harsh eh?

Last I checked Klimmer doesn't wish death/disease on anyone.

I've never wished death/disease on anyone. I'm just explaining to Klimmer what his "loving" and "merciful" G_d has in store for him/us.
If G_d really gave a sh#t, among a million other bad things, we wouldn't have Drumpf and Hillary vying for the most powerful position on earth.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 08:53pm PT
You claimed to have an open mind, and that I posted something without reference. My position is based on the facts, that have references in the above posts.

So I asked what references were you looking for that were not provided?

My position has absolutely nothing to do with Jackass Trump. He should be afforded a fair trail and that is certainly questionable given the fact that the Judge is a member of the association that publicly renounced Trump and called for its members to boycott Trump's businesses and interests.

This has absolutely nothing to do with racism either as much as the retards would like to make it.


EDIT: Hey F, I'm off to shoot jacks tomorrow. You coming?
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:00pm PT
Sure, if you answer the two questions.

But you won't.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:02pm PT

Jun 8, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
Belonging to a bar association that publicly advocates that its members boycott Trump's business interests is proof enough. If he had renounced his membership then that would be fine. But, at least as best I can tell, he didn't.

Well, then the entire Supreme court would have to recuse itself from any rulings on Muslims, because they all belong to organizations that advocated either the extermination or expulsion of Muslims from Spain and/or the Holy land.

Since you use Escopeta, you know that the Catholic Church called for most of the Crusades, and the inquisition was their Special baby. Five members of the court are Catholic. They would also have to recuse themselves on matters of abortion and birth control. The organization they belong to was for the inquisition and against abortion and Birth control.

And three members of the court are Jews. So any views they hold are automatically presumed to be biased against Muslims as well.

Then there is the issue that five of the judges would naturally be biased against the three others, because the Catholic inquisition killed and expelled Jews as well

So none can vote on Guantanimo, by your figuring.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:04pm PT
Deal:

#1: Absolutely Not.
#2: Absolutely Not.

What time would you like to show up? earlier is better, because you get to see the long range impacts better without the mirage. No need for camo, we won't be sneaking up on anything.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:06pm PT
Lorenzo, are there member lists of the associations you speak of regarding the sitting SCOTUS jusdges?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
JB,

here is the full press release: http://us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=df9a27c10b6d6ba38ba001440&id=f8a4a02241&e=cd8fc1ccd9%0A

I am pasting a paragraph below. This was an official PRESS RELEASE from the association the judge is a member of:

"The HNBA calls for a boycott of all of Trump business ventures, including golf courses, hotels, and restaurants. We salute NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s for ending their association with Trump, and we join them in standing up against bigotry and racist rhetoric. Other businesses and corporations should follow the lead of NBC/Universal, Univision and Macy’s and take similar actions against Donald Trump’s business interests. We can and will make a difference."

BTW, these were all in the previous posts (the links I mean) from Lorenzo and Klimmer.
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:14pm PT
Sh#t, man... I can't make it. I've got a life other than shitposting 24/7, and killing sh#t. I will take a rain check. Might pass through Idaho in August. Have fun using a gun for a compensatory device tomorrow!!!
Benghazi?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:15pm PT
Lorenzo, are there member lists of the associations you speak of regarding the sitting SCOTUS jusdges?

You mean whether they are Catholic church members or Jewish? Sure. Go to the Supreme Court website. It's in their Bios.

Three weeks ago, they ruled on a birth control case that made it easier for non-profits to opt out of providing birth control in health packages.

Care to guess how the vote went?

Five are members of the Federalist Society, which advocates the views of James Madison. He owned slaves. ( not Surprisingly, Clarence Thomas is one of them) Also a member is Kenneth Star, who was just removed from his positions as chancellor And President of Baylor university for standing by and doing nothing when Baylor women were raped..

Are these the sorts of subversive organizations we want our judges to belong too?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:15pm PT
Golden beaver pelt speak with fork tongue...Hires brown people to build giant Trump tee pee and then hires brown people to build great white wall...Golden beaver pelt heapum full of crap..!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:22pm PT
Sh#t, man... I can't make it

Good, now I can consider you having proved to be the hypocritical, back walking, stupid idiot that you are.

We good?

Now go lie down.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:27pm PT
Trump didn't question anything, which he is entitled to do.

He stated it as if fact. He has not demonstrated it.

His lawyers can file a motion anytime they want.

They won't. Ask yourself why?

Go read the judges rulings.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:35pm PT
Lorenzo, I wasn't sure what point you were making with the historical references. I see what you are saying now.

While its an interesting concept to consider, I think it would come down to the nature of the association.

I'm actually a little confused on how the (not for profit) judges association got away with political advocacy regarding someone running for office. Maybe they aren't 5013c.

The churches are forbidden from contributing or distributing political activity. So an argument could be made that while the justices participate in their religions, those associations aren't actively boycotting (or other) the candidates business, etc.

This association actively called for its members to to boycott and "injure" Trump's businesses, which is a different, albeit subtle, difference.

But I do see your point.

I went ahead a searched actual language from IRS ruling. See below:

"which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office."
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:48pm PT
The churches are forbidden from contributing or distributing political activity. So an argument could be made that while the justices participate in their religions, those associations aren't actively boycotting (or other) the candidates business, etc.

what planet do you live on?

Here is what they can't do ( freedom from religion foundation)


Cannot endorse or oppose candidates for public office
Cannot make any communication—either from the pulpit, in a newsletter, or church bulletin—which expressly advocates for the election or defeat of a candidate for public office
Cannot make expenditures on behalf of a candidate for public office or allow any of their resources to be used indirectly for political purposes (e.g., use their phones for a phone bank)
Cannot ask a candidate for public office to sign a pledge or other promise to support a particular issue
Cannot distribute partisan campaign literature
Cannot display political campaign signs on church property


So, from that list, here's what they can do. ( and have done)

Can endorse or oppose the views of candidates for public office.
Can implicitly advocate the election or defeat of a party block or candidate by showing their opposition or dissonance to church doctrine.
Can make expenditures to political action committees directly for political purposes.
Can ask their members to sign a pledge to oppose candidates who aspouse views opposed to church doctrine.
Can have their members distribute campaign literature.
Can display campaign literature anywhere but church property.

Here, for example, is a catholic PAC.

http://www.catholicvote.org/about-us/


Just for reference, I'm not singling out catholics here. ( my family is Catholic) All religions do the same thing.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:49pm PT
Oh, this doesn't somehow absolve trump for egregious behavior. It merely confirms that, despite all the idiocy, he has -in my view- a legitimate beef with the judge and his ability to receive a fair judgement given the circumstances.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:50pm PT
Lorenzo, did our SCOTUS judges contribute to the PaC?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 09:59pm PT
Scotus tax returns aren't public. They do give speeches for free ( expenses) at Catholic and religious affiliated institutions for fund raising.

Scalia's last speech was at a Catholic school.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/scalias-last-public-speech-good-intentions-are-not-enough

Doing what's right at a Catholic School is a pretty focused thing.

Those institutions contribute to pacs and have members do so.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:33pm PT
Here's the scoop on disqualification, which Trump's attorneys are free to pursue but haven't. Maybe they need to check in with supertopo for some advice??

http://www.fjc.gov/public/pdf.nsf/lookup/judicialdq.pdf/$file/judicialdq.pdf
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:45pm PT
the issue regarding trump, the hispanic judge, the hispanic bar association and racism is pretty simple...

1. trump repeatedly and explicitly based his claim that the hispanic judge was in conflict of interest due solely to the judge having mexican parents. full stop.
2. trump did not initially make the claim that the hispanic judge was in conflict of interest because he was a part of an association that had taken a position to boycott trump's business interests.
3. #1 is the definition of racism.
4. #2 may make for a worthwhile and arguable position, and if trump wants to pursue it, he should do so in a court of law.
5. to conflate trump's repeated but illegitimate argument in #1, with trump's at least initially non-existent but potentially arguable position in #2 is to post-rationalize racism by conflating it with an argument that didn't initially exist. to do this is therefore to pander to racism.
6. ie. if someone wants to make argument #2 for trump, and is not interested in pandering to racism, they should condemn #1. otherwise their spots show through their thin and transparent costuming.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:45pm PT
Clarence Thomas didn't recuse himself from a Monsanto Health care case even though he was former chief counsel for Monsanto

https://www.quora.com/Will-Clarence-Thomas-recuse-himself-from-the-health-care-constitutionality-case-if-it-reaches-the-Supreme-Court
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:51pm PT
Antonine Scalia didn't recuse himself from the Cheney case even though they were hunting buddies.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/03/18/scalia.recusal/

This was before Cheney shot another hunting buddy, so maybe he knew something.
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 8, 2016 - 10:54pm PT
OH SNAP! Escopedro, the king of the ten gallon tards, called me and idiot!
I'm am cowed and humbled by your superior intellect. And the bright orange truck nuts you have mounted on your F-350 ae really intimidating too.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:02pm PT
Justice Alitonrecused himself from a case involving a company in which he owned stock.

Roberts and Breyer have regularly refused to do so.

http://fixthecourt.com/2015/10/justice-alito-recused-from-ferc-case-today/

In 25 of 37 instances, they voted in favor of companies in whose stock they owned.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:02pm PT
Klimmer, if you adjust those numbers for population growth in the state there's nothing remarkable about trumps numbers.
W's adjusted numbers stand out far more than trumps.

But it's a simple bottom line: at best trump is a racist, sexist, xenophobic bigot and a narcissist. I mean, why even try to deny it?
And elements of the gop want to bail on him not because he's going to drag the party down, but rather because he's exposing
what the gop is really all about.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:03pm PT
"Escopedro, the king of the ten gallon tards, called me and idiot!"

Yes, he's good at that.

And that's all he's good for:

"haughtily dismissive posts without saying anything."

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:05pm PT
Go back and scale the drawing dood. I cant read your wisdom.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:05pm PT
Bump
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:06pm PT
New page.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:14pm PT
Nice try, Klimmer, but in his inability to think before he speaks, he added Muslim judges as a class.

Not a specific judge with a demonstrable bias, but all Muslims.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/jun/05/donald-trump-bernie-sanders-clinton-california-judge
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:24pm PT
oh klim...

we're like flies to your honey...

in case you're not a troll if you'd like me to explain how your statement "He mentioned the judges Mexican heritage only because the judges parents came from Mexico and he's building a wall between the USA and Mexico, assuming, the judge would have a bias against Trump due to this controversial wall." meets the dictionary definition of racism, let me know and i might try to conjure up an example using jews that might just help you understand...

but i remain unconvinced that you aren't one of the greatest of the greats... an leb meets ken m of yahoo comments fame as it were...

in short: a living legend who persists in walking amongst us mere mortals...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 8, 2016 - 11:43pm PT
It seems the judge does have a bias against what Trump wants to do and he wants to boycott his businesses.

The judge's job isn't boycott or not boycott trump's businesses, but rather preside over two trials in which one of trump's businesses is being sued in federal court.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:02am PT
Judges are human. If it can be proven that a judge has a bias in the case before them then they should be recused.

Good job. (except they recuse themselves)

Now show us the proof.

Not an assumption. That's not good enough.

Proof of bias.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:13am PT
It's like saying female divorce court judges can't give a man a fair hearing.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:29am PT
Justice Willian Renquist refused to recuse himself in a Microsoft case even though his son was an attorney for Microsoft, and, as it later turned out, he owned Microsoft stock.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:35am PT
The Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal on a refusal of a judge to recuse himself even though he was formerly employed as an attorney for one of the litigants concerning trade secrets, which this case was about.

http://www.law360.com/articles/592754/supreme-court-won-t-hear-recusal-row-in-dupont-kevlar-case
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:44am PT
Justices Ginsberg and Kagan refused to recuse on cases involving same sex marriage legislation. Both have performed multiple same sex marriage ceremonies.

Ginsberg called same sex marriage " the genius of our constitution"


http://www.onenewsnow.com/perspectives/bryan-fischer/2015/04/24/ginsburg-and-kagan-must-recuse-the-law-demands-it
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:46am PT
Justice Breyer refused to recuse in a big energy case where he owned stock.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/stephen-breyer-conflict-of-interest_us_562134eee4b08589ef472dd8
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:50am PT
An Ohio judge refused recusal in a capital murder case where he was the uncle of the prosecutor.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/crime-law/judge-will-not-recuse-himself-from-highway-slaying/nkF2R/
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:51am PT
damn, four banger, nice work...quadruple tap

vvvvv right you are, missed one cuz I had my head down
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:52am PT
My count is five.

There's a thousand more. All you have to type is " refuse to recuse"

Which begs the question...

Where was the outrage from the right wing ( or any wing) in these cases?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 01:06am PT
I was going for 10200, but without help, I ran out of steam.

I was hoping Klim would at least give me something on the trinity in the bible.

The Ark


Anything.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 01:41am PT
Last one for tonight. Though Scotus doesn't file public returns, they do have to fill out public financial disclosure forms.

This one might show bias, since we seem to be concerned with family and heritage..

Reporting from Washington —

Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas failed to report his wife’s income from a conservative think tank on financial disclosure forms for at least five years, the watchdog group Common Cause said Friday.

Between 2003 and 2007, Virginia Thomas, a longtime conservative activist, earned $686,589 from the Heritage Foundation, according to a Common Cause review of the foundation’s IRS records. Thomas failed to note the income in his Supreme Court financial disclosure forms for those years, instead checking a box labeled “none” where “spousal noninvestment income” would be disclosed.

Read more on latimes.com

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/22/nation/la-na-thomas-disclosure-20110122

Thomas is the author of a supreme court opinion that filing a false financial report is a felony, and another that a person convicted of filing a false return is subject to deportation.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 01:53am PT
Caught my breath. I'm going for it!

January 20, 2011: Following reports that Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas were “featured” at secretive political fundraising and strategy sessions hosted by Koch Industries, Common Cause suggests their attendance may violate the ban on political activity by judges in the Code of Conduct for U.S. Judges. Common Cause also asks the Department of Justice to investigate whether Scalia and Thomas should have disqualified themselves from participation in the landmark Citizens United case on campaign finance, citing their attendance at the Koch retreats and the financial interest of Koch Industries and Thomas’ wife in the outcome of the case.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 01:55am PT

Watch me....

February 15, 2011: Common Cause asks the Supreme Court to clarify statements by a Court spokeswoman that Thomas spoke at a “separate” Federalist Society event and only briefly “dropped by” a Koch retreat in January 2008. According to disclosure forms, Justice Thomas was reimbursed by the Federalist Society for four days of travel and accommodations in Palm Springs, site of the Koch event, on the days the event was scheduled. There is no record of a separate Federalist Society event at that time or place. The court has not responded.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 01:57am PT
Topping out.

April 14, 2011: Testifying before a House subcommittee, Justices Anthony Kennedy and Stephen Breyer assert that the Supreme Court has agreed voluntarily to abide by the Code of Conduct.

May 3, 2011: A letter sent to the subcommittee by a Court official – in response to an inquiry by Common Cause – says that the justices consider the Code of Conduct merely advisory.

May 9, 2011: Common Cause urges Chief Justice John Roberts to clarify the Court’s position on the applicability of the Code of Conduct to the justices. In a letter to Roberts, Common Cause suggests that the justices adopt and publicly release a resolution pledging their compliance with the code and establishing an internal mechanism for enforcing it. Roberts has not responded.

June 18, 2011: The New York Times reports that Justice Thomas aided in the solicitation of multi-million dollar donations from Dallas-based developer Harlan Crow for a charitable project near his Savannah, Ga. childhood home. The Times also reports that Thomas appears to have accepted, but not reported, trips on Crow’s corporate jet and his yacht. Failure to disclose such travel would be a criminal offense and fundraising activities by judges are barred by the Judicial Code of Conduct. Common Cause writes to Thomas and Chief Justice Roberts to again urge full disclosure and prompt action to ensure that the court is complying with the highest ethical standards. Neither Thomas nor Roberts has responded. 

July 7, 2011: In a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the U.S. Marshals Service, Common Cause seeks copies of government records relating to travel by Justice Thomas. The request is aimed at determining whether Justice Thomas traveled on a plane owned by Harlan Crow on seven occasions over the past four years, and if so, whether those trips were properly disclosed. Federal law requires all federal officials to disclose who pays for their travel.

July 7, 2011: In a letter to the president of the American Bar Association, Common Cause urges the nation’s largest group of lawyers to join in efforts to persuade the Court to publicly embrace the code of conduct that all other federal judges must follow and to enforce tough ethical standards on its members. 

September 13, 2011: Common Cause and Alliance for Justice write to the Judicial Conference, an administrative arm of the federal court system, urging it to refer Thomas’ failure to disclose his spouse’s income to the Department of Justice for investigation. 

September 29, 2011: Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-NY), Ranking Member of the House Rules Committee, leads 19 other House members in calling on the Judicial Conference to refer the Thomas disclosure issue to the Department of Justice. Says Slaughter: "To believe that Justice Thomas didn't know how to fill out a basic disclosure form is absurd.”

October 5, 2011: Old disclosure forms uncovered by Common Cause and Alliance for Justice, indicate that Justice Thomas accurately completed his reports for at least seven years before he began – inaccurately -- checking “NONE” on the section seeking details about his wife’s employment. This new information is at odds with Thomas’ assertion that the omissions were simply due to a “misunderstanding of the filing instructions”. A letter to the Judicial Conference from Common Cause and Alliance for Justice, urges that the matter be referred to the Attorney General for investigation, of Thomas’ apparent failure to comply with the 1978 Ethics in Government Act.

November 14, 2011: Hours after considering whether to hear challenges to national health care reform, Justices Thomas and Scalia are honored at a Federalist Society fundraiser sponsored in part by law firms engaged in the litigation. If any other judge did this, he or she would be in violation of the Code of Conduct for US Judges, which states: a judge “may not be a speaker, a guest of honor, or featured on the program of such an event.” Thomas and Scalia were all three.

Good luck to the Donald on the recusal challenge thing.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:10am PT
On top.



Aw, gee. There's already a summit register.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:26am PT
Here is a photo of Australian actress Samara Weaving, on the set of the horror comedy television show, Ash vs. Evil Dead.

The photo came from Hannah Wilson, a makeup artist on the set of the show. Weaving is not actually injured, she's just in makeup. The photo has been available on the internet since January.


Last Saturday, someone posted the photo to Facebook, with a misleading caption. He intended to deceive viewers into thinking she was a Trump supporter who had been beaten up, perhaps at the San Jose rally.





The difference between Trump's detractors and his supporters is that the detractors don't have to invent and fabricate falsehoods. The truth about Trump is bad enough.

Trump and his supporters, however, need to continually defraud and deceive their audiences in an attempt to conceal and/or justify Trump's immoral and illegal activity.


http://www.sfgate.com/news/local/article/Trump-supporters-are-stealing-photos-to-show-the-7970401.php





Good luck to the Donald on the recusal challenge thing.

There is no "recusal challenge thing".

If there was a valid, legal basis to petition the judge for recusal, Trump's lawyers would have already done that.


Trump is (weakly and pathetically) trying to divert attention away from the fact that his "university" was a con-man's scam, and that he defrauded thousands of people out of millions of dollars.

Like a sleight-of-hand artist, Trump is trying to misdirect people's attention so that he can place their coins in his pocket, and pretend that they magically disappeared.



There are three ongoing lawsuits seeking relief from Trump University fraud, one of which was brought by the New York State Attorney General.

Trump will possibly now say that the New York Attorney General is biased against him because Trump lives in golden penthouse on Fifth Avenue, and the Attorney General doesn't.



Trump is also tangling with New York City, over public space that Trump has seized for his own business use. When Trump Tower was approved in 1979, the lobby was to forever remain public space, open all day for anyone to use. Last year, Trump removed a large marble bench and installed a retail facility, where he sells his campaign merchandise.


Last year, the City Planning Department told Trump to remove the retail kiosks, and to restore the public bench. Trump's lieyer, Michael Cohen, said that the required work would be done within two to four weeks. “Mr. Trump is always compliant with all rules and regulations,” Mr. Cohen lied.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/29/nyregion/trump-tower-to-remove-disputed-kiosks-from-public-atrium.html



As of March, Trump was still ignoring the order from the planning department to restore the public space, and to stop using it for his own personal enrichment.

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20160302/midtown/trump-tower-continues-use-illegal-kiosks-despite-warning-from-city



As of June 1, 2016, Trump has still not complied with the order to remove the retail kiosks and restore the public space bench. Instead, Trump has repeatedly used the public lobby as his own private event space, and has illegally barred public access to the lobby during normal daytime hours.

http://www.hbnews1.com/2016/06/01/is-trump-breaking-city-rules-by-shutting-people-out-from-his-trump-tower-events-new-york-city-officials-scrutinize-donalds-use-of-skyscrapers-public-lobby/



Simultaneously, Trump has agitated to restrict the rights of disabled veterans to have sidewalk vending businesses, a concession to them that dates to the 1890s.

Trump wants to forbid others from using public spaces for retail business. But, he has no problem with doing that exact same thing himself.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/exclusive-donald-trump-push-street-vendors-article-1.2312519




Trump is a bottomless black hole of immorality, greed and arrogance.

Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:48am PT
Ready for Canada?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:54am PT
Oh, dear.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/03/27/judge_should_have_declared_ties_to_cn_rail_in_native_protest_cases_lawyer_argues.html


http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/barbara-kay-biased-judges-are-a-stain-on-canadas-judiciary

"refuse to recuse" works across borders.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 9, 2016 - 03:24am PT
The globalization of sordidness.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:12am PT
So, it sounds like you agree then Lorenzo? That the judge should recuse himself from the Trump case for conflict of interest? Just like they should have in all the other cases you cited?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:45am PT
Escopeta posted
So, it sounds like you agree then Lorenzo? That the judge should recuse himself from the Trump case for conflict of interest? Just like they should have in all the other cases you cited?

Using this logic, everyone should recuse themselves almost all the time.


(Why are you apologizing for racism, Escopeta?)
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 06:38am PT
Apologizing for racism. That's funny.

Why are you not more concerned about the validity of our legal system? Oh right, because when it works against someone like Trump you don't mind so much.

Typical.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:08am PT
"Why are you not more concerned about the validity of our legal system? Oh right, because when it works against someone like Trump you don't mind so much. "


Bankrupt four times, sour real estate deals, two divorces, I think the legal system has done well for the scumbag.

dirtbag

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:11am PT
It's almost amusing watching trump supporters twist themselves in knots defending his racism.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:15am PT
Except that they are oftentimes our neighbors. Or family members.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:24am PT
It's almost amusing watching trump supporters twist themselves in knots defending his racism.

Not nearly as amusing as watching the liberal left scream bloody murder when the system doesn't work for them but sit on their hands when it works against their philosophical enemies.

You show your true colors by advocating for a legal system that doesn't work fairly for all citizens. Trump's racism doesn't exclude him from equal treatment before the law.

If this was a black man on trial and the judge was a member of the White Separatists BAR Association and that group had called for boycott of all minority owned businesses, you'd be signing a different tune.

Typical hypocrites.

I just like proving that when you pull back the covers, you people are no less bigoted than the idiots across the isle.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:34am PT
"haughtily dismissive posts without saying anything."
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:35am PT
monolith

climber
state of being
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:40am PT
Is Esco claiming the judge is racist because the bar association wants a boycott on Trump products?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:42am PT
Esco is just being oppositional for the sake of being oppositional. It's his schtick.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:00am PT
Honestly, most of the time I have no idea wtf he is talking about.
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:07am PT
Escopedros attempts to connect the dots, that only he can see, remind me of Charlie Browns teachers voice. Wa waa, wa a wa, FREEDOM! , wa waa wa, BENGHAZI!!, wa waa wa.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:07am PT
Escopeta posted
Why are you not more concerned about the validity of our legal system? Oh right, because when it works against someone like Trump you don't mind so much.


Mmmm...no you're right. Clearly the justice system is working against the alleged billionaire who brags about his larcenous behavior in books and not the thousands of black men behind bars who had all the black people stricken from jury by white prosecutors. Judicial parity is obviously a top issue you for you.

I can only assume you find Trump's situation precarious because his white privilege is being impeached. What was that you said again? Oh yeah, "Go ahead. Make guns illegal. I'm white and will own as many as I want because nobody prosecutes white people for that stuff."
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:09am PT
Thanks for proving my point. It warms my heart when people do that.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:10am PT
Lorenzo

You have to read Dark Money
by Jane Mayer

It links the current SCOTUS to the Koch Brothers and big money.
Citizens United, Voting Rights, voting suppression, gobbling up State and local Govs., all part of their well planned agenda funded by 100s of millions

From Amazon

Why is America living in an age of profound economic inequality? Why, despite the desperate need to address climate change, have even modest environmental efforts been defeated again and again? Why have protections for employees been decimated? Why do hedge-fund billionaires pay a far lower tax rate than middle-class workers?

The conventional answer is that a popular uprising against “big government” led to the ascendancy of a broad-based conservative movement. But as Jane Mayer shows in this powerful, meticulously reported history, a network of exceedingly wealthy people with extreme libertarian views bankrolled a systematic, step-by-step plan to fundamentally alter the American political system.

The network has brought together some of the richest people on the planet. Their core beliefs—that taxes are a form of tyranny; that government oversight of business is an assault on freedom—are sincerely held. But these beliefs also advance their personal and corporate interests: Many of their companies have run afoul of federal pollution, worker safety, securities, and tax laws.

The chief figures in the network are Charles and David Koch, whose father made his fortune in part by building oil refineries in Stalin’s Russia and Hitler’s Germany. The patriarch later was a founding member of the John Birch Society, whose politics were so radical it believed Dwight Eisenhower was a communist. The brothers were schooled in a political philosophy that asserted the only role of government is to provide security and to enforce property rights.

When libertarian ideas proved decidedly unpopular with voters, the Koch brothers and their allies chose another path. If they pooled their vast resources, they could fund an interlocking array of organizations that could work in tandem to influence and ultimately control academic institutions, think tanks, the courts, statehouses, Congress, and, they hoped, the presidency. Richard Mellon Scaife, the mercurial heir to banking and oil fortunes, had the brilliant insight that most of their political activities could be written off as tax-deductible “philanthropy.”

These organizations were given innocuous names such as Americans for Prosperity. Funding sources were hidden whenever possible. This process reached its apotheosis with the allegedly populist Tea Party movement, abetted mightily by the Citizens United decision—a case conceived of by legal advocates funded by the network.

The political operatives the network employs are disciplined, smart, and at times ruthless. Mayer documents instances in which people affiliated with these groups hired private detectives to impugn whistle-blowers, journalists, and even government investigators. And their efforts have been remarkably successful. Libertarian views on taxes and regulation, once far outside the mainstream and still rejected by most Americans, are ascendant in the majority of state governments, the Supreme Court, and Congress. Meaningful environmental, labor, finance, and tax reforms have been stymied.


madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:12am PT
ECHO....

ECHo....

ECho....

Echo....






echo....






Clinton and Trump are cut from the same cloth, just different pattern-areas of the same cloth.

Until we quit fighting each other and get solidly together on the fact that both parties have totally sold us out, so that we reject the "offerings" of both parties, we're all screwed.

You can debate until the cows come home about which party "screws us more," but that's a fruitless debate. "Winning" on a thread like this is just having "more" of people that sound like you chiming in. Fruitless.

Until we can get past the yen to have "superiority" about "being right" that our "preferred" (pos) candidate is "better" than the other pos candidate, we can't get together on the fact that both pos candidates are absolutely horrendous, and the present parties need to entirely lose their support.

Or, you can just keep up the group-cupping session, with a few like Esco as anomalies, and thereby ensure that we just kick the can down the road a few more election cycles.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:13am PT
Your point that, what, you're mad that rich white people might be subject to the same crappy judicial process that everyone else is?



Mad posted
You can debate until the cows come home about which party "screws us more," but that's a fruitless debate. "Winning" on a thread like this is just having "more" of people that sound like you chiming in. Fruitless.


Pretty sure the only people making that argument are the BernieOrBusters
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:18am PT
The pure BS of your hypocrisy, CF, is that what you just posted is a "wall of text." I could very easily respond to the lies of each sentence of it, but then everybody would scream, "Wall of text! Wall of text!"

So, your hypocrisy is that you have repeatedly posted your own walls of text, but you'll decry anybody who attempts to systematically respond, because a systematic response is just a "wall of text" to respond to a wall of text.

The left perpetually works to shut down discussion, so that in its own echo chamber it can feel unthreatened in its "correctness." Just look at what happens whenever Milo shows up to speak at a university campus (by invitation). Same thing here.

You post a wall of text, but would then condemn any attempt to systematically respond to it.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:20am PT
Pretty sure the only people making that argument are the BernieOrBusters

Then this is an example of you being "pretty sure" about something about which you are incorrect. This example is not an anomaly.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:20am PT
Oh goody. Mb is back with his one person pity party.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:24am PT
Well, let's be clear. Craig Fry posts WOP aka - "Walls of Paste". Which is decidedly different from someone that uses their own brain and own words.

That being said, he would not be able to keep his Commandant Google title if he didn't drop a cut and paste whopper every so often. He might get demoted to Admiral Google without it.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:27am PT
I can post anything I want

read it or don't

That's what I do
You don't see me whining about what other people post

But, please
go ahead and respond to some of the post
have you read the book?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:32am PT
how about this paragraph

When libertarian ideas proved decidedly unpopular with voters, the Koch brothers and their allies chose another path. If they pooled their vast resources, they could fund an interlocking array of organizations that could work in tandem to influence and ultimately control academic institutions, think tanks, the courts, statehouses, Congress, and, they hoped, the presidency. Richard Mellon Scaife, the mercurial heir to banking and oil fortunes, had the brilliant insight that most of their political activities could be written off as tax-deductible “philanthropy.”

did you guys go to one of their colleges for your education
Now that would make sense, Koch educated to believe their principles are facts
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:39am PT
You don't see me whining about what other people post

Yeah you do.

go ahead and respond to some of the post

Like you, I don't need permission.

I've learned to not bother. It's a waste of my time and effort.

My point was to call you on your hypocrisy.

have you read the book?

Nope, and your excerpt was enough to convince me that the book is absolutely relentless in its distortions. I'm stunned at how virtually every sentence of your excerpt is a lie or distortion.

You don't have to drink a gallon of milk to detect that it's sour. Just a sip is enough. The "sip" you've provided is more than plenty to reveal that the whole "gallon" is sour.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:40am PT
did you guys go to one of their colleges for your education
Now that would make sense, Koch educated to believe their principles are facts

Nah. My entire education through Ph.D. was at California state schools. You know, the bastion of left-leaning education.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:41am PT
Every fact in the book is backed up by references
She wrote for the Wall Street Journal starting in the Reagan era

Sorry you don't want to be exposed to the truth about the libertarian movement.

Please point out 1 or 2 lies, so we can discuss
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:54am PT
You don't have to drink a gallon of milk to detect that it's sour. Just a sip is enough

That was good. Thank you.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:56am PT
Donald Trump is the New McCarthy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/media-murrow-moment_us_57584647e4b0ced23ca69e16

In the early 1950s, Sen. Joe McCarthy was on a rampage. Beginning in February 1950, when he said he had a list of “hundreds” of Communists then working in the State Department, he led the Red Scare that destroyed thousands of lives and tore at the basic fabric of democracy. Four years later, in March 1954, legendary CBS broadcaster Edward R. Murrow pushed back.

Strangely, or perhaps not, Trump’s connection to McCarthy is more than metaphorical. (Indeed, the head of the Edward R. Murrow Center said Murrow would skewer Trump were he around today.) Lawyer Roy Cohn, McCarthy’s hatchet man, went on to become a close adviser to none other than Trump himself.

“This is no time for men who oppose Sen. McCarthy’s methods to keep silent,” Murrow said,
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:56am PT
Ed Mimiage of the ABC says:

... serving obviously intoxicated patrons is also a recipe for tragedy.

A recent study showed fifty percent of those arrested for drunk driving had their last drink in a bar.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:58am PT
I've learned that there is no "discussion" with you, CF.

Even what the book (and you) calls "libertarianism" is a mistake. Labels are killers, which is why the first and most important tactic in every debate is to attempt to own the language of the debate.

There is no doubt that there is "dark money" in politics and in government. However, as I said above, singling out one party (or world-view) for special condemnation is a vast mistake.

What decades of election cycles clearly reveal is that both parties "ebb and flow," but both parties win BY keeping us committed to the party-approach to politics. By keeping us fighting each other in partisan fashion, both parties ensure their power and long-term stranglehold over the entire process.

Until we can ALL get beyond the need to "be right," particularly by bashing on, belittling, and condemning "the other side," we encourage the stranglehold around our own throats. Both parties win, and the ebb and flow is no threat to the existence of either party.

I would be happy to entertain "liberal" positions on a host of issues. I would love to find compromises, IF they could lead to "we the people" coming together on the most basic issues. I've listed what I take to be the "top" issues in the past, and many of you responded that it was a good list and offered refinements. Things took a briefly positive tack.

Then, things just devolved into insults and the grand cupping-party again. There's no doubt that the Taco Stand's politard threads are dominated by liberals. Fine. No problem. I'm not threatened by that, as long as there's some point to engaging. But any fruitful discussion is going to have to intentionally get beyond partisan bashing sessions, imo.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:06am PT
Has anyone checked to see whether Antonio Scalia was a member of La Familia Cosa Nostra Legal Association?

He was a real hater. Hated the fact that he never got a Trump lawsuit to rule on, so he could give the pinche weto (translates roughly as
figlio di puttana) his comeuppance.


"STFU Trump, or else"
A. Scalia






c wilmot

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:14am PT
not only have the 1% bought this election they have also convinced their followers to bicker about it. meaning they are free to destabilize more middle eastern countries with the illegal support of "rebels" who are actually Islamic terrorist groups invading once soverign nations.

the 1% wins and profits off death while the US people bicker and lose

again
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:17am PT



Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho

Jun 9, 2016 - 05:12am PT
So, it sounds like you agree then Lorenzo? That the judge should recuse himself from the Trump case for conflict of interest? Just like they should have in all the other cases you cited?

No.

I'm saying Trump needs to do a lot better that "they speak Spanish at home so he must hate me" to meet the standard currently set for recusal.

Most of the cases I posted had the highest court with actual financial and familial conflicts, or involved friendships that would certainly color a decision.Vthey belong to organizations with histories that involved at least as much activism contrary to litigants who appear before them.

If you think that's wrong ( a case you could make) it seems a bit odd that the Trump U. fraud case is the place to make the stand when the judge appears to have made mostly rulings favorable to Trump.

If there was previous evidence of great outrage from the right before his case, maybe it would be different. I welcome judicial reform.
But there have been clearly compromised death penalty cases and financial conflicts I documented that were much worse and no outcry from republicans, so screw them all.
I don't see a case for doing it different because he's " really, really, incredibly rich" as he describes it. All the lawyers who have reviewed the decision I can find think he's getting a fair shake by current standards.


This isn't where we line up against the redcoats on the town green. Most folks will just shrug and get back to lawn bowls and their pint.

Did I remove any ambiguity?
c wilmot

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:32am PT
people are upset about trump university but not upset that Obama has been supporting a variety of Islamic terrorist groups collectively known as "rebels" by US propaganda that are actively engaged in invading several middle eastern nations?
that is in clear violation of international law
yet no one seems to care

oh well

R.I.P democracy


Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:51am PT
Democracy died when we supported fascism regimes in places like Guatemala, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Chile, Argentina, Spain ( Franco), South Afica, Taiwan, etc over the last 70 years in the name of anticommunism.

Remember Bush 1 explains how it's not about the oil?

And now rich corporations have rights as persons - not the owners, the corporations themselves, while actual humans are denied those rights as prisoners.
c wilmot

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:56am PT
yet this is 2016 and Obama has been aiding islamic terrorist groups actively invading several middle east nations which is in clear violation of international law

most learn early two wrongs dont make a right

and by the USA's own definition- these "rebels" are "enemy combatants' not covered by the Geneva convention

yet Obama and his ilk insist that the leaders of these ME nations willingly give up their control so their country's devolve into chaos- as was seen in Libya

this is all very disturbing on many levels
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:57am PT
Did I remove any ambiguity?

Well, not really to be honest.

Are you saying that because of all these other cases of inappropriate conflicts of interest in the past that were not addressed, this one shouldn't get addressed either? Or are you saying that those other cases don't represent conflicts and this one shouldn't either?

I confess, I'm not familiar with the other cases you mentioned, and I suspect some of them I would draw similar conclusions with them as I did here, which is to say there was a conflict and it should have been addressed.

But in truth, I'm unconcerned with what happened in those other cases as I didn't dig into them like this one -admittedly it didn't take much of a shovel - to find that it smells rotten.

I don't buy into the whole "it happens all the time over there, so why bother doing anything about it over here" type arguments.

I also don't care whether the rulings have been for Trump, against Trump or otherwise. The reality is that a conflict exists and Trump has legitimate concern about his right to a fair judgement.

No amount of racially stupid rhetoric from him removes that reality. It might make us want to see him fry anyway, but the true test of a statesman is to protect the integrity of the system and do what's right regardless of how much of an idiot he is.


c wilmot

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:02am PT
most people are confused

its why they dont understand that Obama has been in clear violation of international law for years

its also why you are bickering about a fake election with fake players

its what they have conditioned you to do

as I said- the 1% wins

we lose
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:09am PT
and by the USA's own definition- these "rebels" are "enemy combatants' not covered by the Geneva convention

By the Geneva convention enemy combatants can't be tortured. It doesn't Exempt enemy combatants. That usually who you fight. The Nuremberg trials established that as crimes against humanity . That didn't stop the bush administration.


What is Common Article Three?

This article of the Geneva Conventions bars torture, cruel, inhumane, and degrading treatment, as well as outrages against the human dignity of prisoners of war, or POWs. Until recently it remained unclear whether the article applied to CIA interrogators, located overseas, who were questioning high-ranking members of al-Qaeda and other so-called “unlawful enemy combatants.” In July 2006, the Supreme Court ruled in its Hamdan decision that this article does indeed apply to top terror suspects detained in CIA-run prisons as well as at Guantanamo Bay. "Quoting [Common Article Three] is like quoting the Bible for international lawyers," says Peter Danchin, a Columbia University legal expert.

( Council on Foreign Relations)


They also let the leaders of Saudi Arabia escape after 9-11 when all the enemy combatants were Saudis.

Scream something other tha OBAMA!!! And BENGHAZI!!!!
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:10am PT
What decades of election cycles clearly reveal is that both parties "ebb and flow," but both parties win BY keeping us committed to the party-approach to politics. By keeping us fighting each other in partisan fashion, both parties ensure their power and long-term stranglehold over the entire process.

Until we can ALL get beyond the need to "be right," particularly by bashing on, belittling, and condemning "the other side," we encourage the stranglehold around our own throats. Both parties win, and the ebb and flow is no threat to the existence of either party.

I would be happy to entertain "liberal" positions on a host of issues. I would love to find compromises, IF they could lead to "we the people" coming together on the most basic issues. I've listed what I take to be the "top" issues in the past, and many of you responded that it was a good list and offered refinements. Things took a briefly positive tack.

Then, things just devolved into insults and the grand cupping-party again. There's no doubt that the Taco Stand's politard threads are dominated by liberals. Fine. No problem. I'm not threatened by that, as long as there's some point to engaging. But any fruitful discussion is going to have to intentionally get beyond partisan bashing sessions, imo.


MB very good.... +1
c wilmot

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:15am PT
You do realize Hillary carried out these violations of international law as Secretary of state and that she will continue the failed policy's of regime change....right?

and the support of unorganized armys or terrorists is illegal under international law

none of Obama's support of the "rebels" has been legal

I am just trying to point out that the upcoming election is not even real

its just theatre to distract and divide

over and out

zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:27am PT
Is the Ninth Circuit also biased, possibly due to being Mexican and/or Hispanic?

From the dismissal of Trump countersuit for defamation.

The Court notes that, for the first time at oral argument, Trump University raised the argument that Makaeff has not made this prima facie showing as to the letter she sent to Bank of America seeking a refund. The Court rejects this argument for two reasons. First, Trump University did not raise this issue in its briefing, and the Court need not consider issues raised for the first time during oral argument. See Visto Corp. v. Sproqit Techs., Inc., 413 F. Supp. 2d 1073, 1088 n.8 (N.D. Cal. 2006); see also In re Pacific Pictures Corp., 679 F.3d 1121, 1130 (9th Cir. 2012). Second, the Ninth Circuit already rejected Trump University’s argument, stating that the judges had “doubts about Trump University’s claim that Makaeff wrote her letters to her bank and the Better Business Bureau with purely private motives” and affirming Judge Gonzalez’s finding that Makaeff has made her initial prima facie showing. Makaeff v. Trump University, LLC, 715 F.3d 254, 263 (9th Cir. 2013). The Ninth Circuit’s determination is binding on this Court.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:31am PT
Poor little white boy Trump, the world is so against him.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:35am PT
Poor little white boy Trump, the world is so against him.

he sure goes on and on about how so many people are "unfair" to him
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:47am PT
Had a sliver spoon up his ass and in his mouth his whole life, whitey can't handle any minority telling him the law.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:54am PT
Pointing to a report she released Monday, the Massachusetts senator noted that Republicans have been approving nominees at a glacial pace since taking over the Senate in 2014, approving just 18 judges in this Congress. Judicial vacancies have skyrocketed from 43 to 89


Are you proud the ass holes you support, JohnE?

I don't support ass holes, unless you accept the Trumpers' theory that all "politicians" are ass holes. The Republicans didn't start the slow-go approach to confirmation of judicial appointments, and I'm sure they won't end it. The Bork SCOTUS nomination remains a low water mark in partisanship on judicial appointments. I don't like what the Republicans are doing, but I also understand self-defense.

Did you support the Democrats when they stalled appointments proposed by Republican presidents, or opposed traditionally qualified candidates solely on ideological grounds? Unilateral disarmament doesn't have a particularly successful history for the disarmed.

I would note, however, that Republican SCOTUS appointments in the last few decades have included a few centrist, such as Kennedy, O'Connor and Roberts, and even a couple of liberal justices(i.e. Stevens and Souter). The Democrats have apointed one centrist (Breyer). The rest are all extremely and docrinarily liberal.

A better question on judicial appointments might be how do we get the overt partisanship out of the equation, given that we're appointing some of the most powerful governmental officials who have lifetime tenure and, in the case of federal district judges, the ability to determine a case through the application of provisional remedies without any realistic ability to appeal? No other single government official has as much power.

I have yet to see any good method. "Senatorial courtesy" has helped for non-SCOTUS appointments, but we have a profound clash of constitutional jurisprudence at present. One side looks to the words of the constitution as the arbiter of legislative actions, the other looks at the legislative actions and redefines the words of the Constitution. How do you resolve that?

John
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 9, 2016 - 11:01am PT
Is the Ninth Circuit also biased. . . ?

Yes, in a word. Its decisions are infamous for their singularly leftist tilt, and their specious attempts to evade Supreme Court precedents. For several decades, the Ninth Cirucit has been the most often reversed of all circuit courts of appeal. In one instance in the not-so-distant past, the SCOTUS made a most extraordinary order, enjoining the Ninth Circuit from issuing stays of execution in a particular case because of the clearly lawless actions of jerks like Reinhardt (one of "Carter's Little Liver Pills.")

The fact remains that all judges have biases because they're human. The only evidence of bias I see in the Trump U. case, however, is the bias of Chump himself. I see no reason for the trial judge to recuse himself. If an allegatino of bias were enough to require recusal, a disgruntled litigant could veto every judge who ruled against him or her.

John
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 11:04am PT
Relevant and timely Oatmeal Cartoon: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/fireworks
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 11:07am PT
Fair enough JE. Yes, everybody not only must get stoned, but also must be biased. It's inherent in human nature.

I should have said therefore, " biased to the degree that they need to recuse themselves?"

However, to get back to the issue at hand, are they biased because they are Mexican, Hispanic, Italian, Turkish?

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 11:09am PT
I would note, however, that Republican SCOTUS appointments in the last few decades have included a few centrist, such as Kennedy, O'Connor and Roberts, and even a couple of liberal justices(i.e. Stevens and Souter). The Democrats have apointed one centrist (Breyer). The rest are all extremely and docrinarily liberal.

I think our "centrist " and "doctrinally liberal" meters are calibrated differently. Scalia, Alito, and Thomas are to the right of Caligula.

And most of the justices were approved in part because they were Catholic.


Why? Because the assumption by the right wing was that Catholics would automatically be against abortion.


What they didn't factor in is that a lot of Catholic dogma concerns social justice, equal rights, and service to the poor.
(not to mention that 82% of US Catholics polled say birth control is morally acceptable )


Big mistake.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 9, 2016 - 11:13am PT
I think our "centrist " meters are calibrated differently.

True that.

I am not Catholic, but the allegation of pro-Catholic bias amuses me, because 150 years ago, Republicans feared Catholics because they thought they were more beholden to the Vatican than to Washington. A post Civil War epithet was that the "Democrats are the party of Rum, Romanism and Rebellion."

How things change!

John
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 11:17am PT
Yeah, it's one of the biggest mistakes in republican appointments.

Garland is Jewish, btw.

Even funnier, is that the court was a center of power for Wasps for two centuries.

Now there are none on the court.

discrimination? Maybe the next one will be the token wasp.



Oh, yeah. ...
The court was also almost all slave owners during the Dred Scott decision.
( or had avowed pro slavery views)
Chief justice Taney was the first Catholic on the court ( he owned slaves, as did his neighbor Francis Scott Key. )
That was the litmus test for the age.


I wonder if they should have recused themselves?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
Klimmer posted
You know the whole Trump U. issue is not that big of a deal.

I mean, people are scammed out money every day. What's the problem here?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
That's why there is a judge.



+1, Locker.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
"OMFG !!!! klimmer said something again.

And now the nutcase forum Hillary loons will reply en mass with the same stoopid cesspool garbage they've been spewing and foaming for the last month again.

Wait for it and bank on it .....'


Locker beat me to it but the duck comes waddling out of control to Klimmer every post.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
Learn how to use the quote function dipshits

zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
Clinton 1,940,773 (56%)
Sanders 1,502,187 (43%)


Trump 1,175,270 (75%)
Cruz 144,173 ( 9%)
Kasich 176,655 (11%)

California primary results from San Diego UT
dirtbag

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 12:58pm PT
Donald said

...so it must be true!!!
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
mama said

there'd be days like this


there'd be days like this

my mama said


you know mama, mama tried


Can't say I didn't learn something today.

dirtbag

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
Birds of a feather, and all that.

David Duke defends trump's comments about his judge; blames Jews.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/david-duke-trump-judge-224121#superComments



Fear not, Donald, the klan has your back!
Burnin' Oil

Trad climber
CA
Jun 9, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
Meanwhile, in other news, ISIS stuffs 19 girls in a cage and burns them alive.



American popular/political culture sets the standard for banality and superficiality.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 01:46pm PT
Well, he'll have klimmer's and bluering's votes: Trump views Kalifornia and New Jersey as in play.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/06/09/donald_trump_is_going_to_blow_all_of_the_gop_s_money.html

Yes, this strategy comes from the big man.

So to summarize, trump is expected to raise about a third of the cash as Clinton is expected to raise, and yet he plans to pour resources into two solidly blue states. Meanwhile, Clinton can spend as much as she likes in bona fide swing states and areas that lean trump, but are not solidly in his column (think Georgia, Arizona).

It's well thought out plans like this that will make big wig donors rush to open their check books for him.

Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
Crooked Hillary is lying, and Donald J. Trump is telling the truth.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

Trump has spent far less $$$ than most of the candidates and he still cleans house as a result.

Cuz he has gotten millions in free publicity for being such a god-awful train wreck - it's like crack for a journalist.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
Klimmer

what will you say when your boy loses in an embarrassing Landslide to Hillary in November?

what will you say?
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
Politifact gets everyone, Klimmer.

Who ties your shoelaces for you?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
USA Today uncovered Trump’s big dodge while investigating the thousands of lawsuits he is involved in.



Donald Trump often portrays himself as a savior of the working class who will “protect your job.” But a USA TODAY NETWORK analysis found he has been involved in more than 3,500 lawsuits over the past three decades – and a large number of those involve ordinary Americans, like the Friels, who say Trump or his companies have refused to pay them.

At least 60 lawsuits, along with hundreds of liens, judgments, and other government filings reviewed by the USA TODAY NETWORK, document people who have accused Trump and his businesses of failing to pay them for their work. Among them: a dishwasher in Florida. A glass company in New Jersey. A carpet company. A plumber. Painters. Forty-eight waiters. Dozens of bartenders and other hourly workers at his resorts and clubs, coast to coast. Real estate brokers who sold his properties. And, ironically, several law firms that once represented him in these suits and others.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
And Norton what will you say when Trump wins?

Klimmer, what do you say you and I make a bet?

How about something tiny, say only $500, we both put it up now, write a check to someone we both trust on this forum

and the day after the election that person pays out the money to the winner

fair, honest, and really it gives both of us a chance to put our money where our mouth is

how about it Klimmer, I'm in?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
Stop being a dirtbag. Trump has denounced Duke. Anybody can try to associate themselves with a candidate. It doesn't mean anything.

Sort of, after, at first, lying by saying he didn't know who Duke was (yes he's a lying puke). It took a few days before he got there.

Anyway: there's a reason why the KKK supports him: because he's an openly racist piece of ignorant garbage. Even his own party members admit his recent statement was racist. But you unfailingly defend him anyway.

Sad!

dirtbag

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
I wouldn't take that bet, Klimmer.

(Sorry Norton)
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
At least 60 lawsuits, along with hundreds of liens, judgments, and other government filings reviewed by the USA TODAY NETWORK, document people who have accused Trump and his businesses of failing to pay them for their work. Among them: a dishwasher in Florida. A glass company in New Jersey. A carpet company. A plumber. Painters. Forty-eight waiters. Dozens of bartenders and other hourly workers at his resorts and clubs, coast to coast. Real estate brokers who sold his properties. And, ironically, several law firms that once represented him in these suits and others.

You forgot he stole tip money from waiters, a felony in NY.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:14pm PT
"it's like crack for a narcissist."


Fixed that for ya.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:19pm PT
A friend of mine from NY who is conservative - enough to think I'm crazy - says that it's well known among contactors in NY - he had a some restaurants in NY and became friends with some of the contractors - that Trump has the standard operating procedure of paying 60-80% on the dollar for a contract once it's completed.

He tells the contractor straight up to the effect of, "Sue me if you want, you'll probably win, but it'll cost you more than it's worth." He knows that the ones that do go to court will be few and far between and he's still ahead.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/we-investigated-donald-trump-is-named-in-at-least-169-federal-lawsuits/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-long-trail-of-litigation-1457891191

http://fortune.com/2015/08/14/donald-trump-lawsuits/

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/03/the-lawsuits-of-donald-trump/273819/

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/06/trump-sued-everyone-but-his-hairdresser.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_University

zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:20pm PT
The gist of [the] complaint about Trump University is that it constitutes an elaborate scam. As the recent Ponzi-scheme scandals involving one-time financial luminaries like Bernard Madoff and Allen Stanford demonstrate, victims of con artists often sing the praises of their victimizers until the moment they realize they have been fleeced.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
I don't think this has been posted yet...




The harder the conflict the sweeter the triumph.



Take a moment, let your mirror neurons drink it in.


:)
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:28pm PT
I've known too many contractors with Trump's M.O. over the years. I've represented many of the subs stiffed by those sorts. It always amazed me that anyone would do business with those sorts of people.

For all Trump's questionable business practices, he still wasn't able to make as much with his inherited wealth as he would have by just investing the money in an index fund. He's demonstrated the policy substance of a rock. Well, actually, less than a rock, because a rock would not cause a trade war or alienate a neighbor and one of our most important economic partners.

John
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
Let's remember too, this "loud" "thinskinned" "money-grubber" has yet to release those tax returns of his.

Something is very shady about that.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
i think Crooked Donald is a reasonable moniker..

Good point.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
Even Nixon released his tax returns.

Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
And Norton what will you say when Trump wins?
Klimmer, what do you say you and I make a bet?

How about something tiny, say only $500, we both put it up now, write a check to someone we both trust on this forum

and the day after the election that person pays out the money to the winner

fair, honest, and really it gives both of us a chance to put our money where our mouth is

how about it Klimmer, I'm in?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 9, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
Just back from the mountains and had to catch up on this cluster fuk.

Norton, I already tried the bet thing with Klimmer; he won't do it, even though my bet wouldn't have cost him anything if he lost and if he won, free wine. And he will never answer direct questions. I think he learned that from Trump. On the Trump topic, does the J in DJT stand for Jesus?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
Forbes pegs Trump worth at $4.5 billion (Late March, 2016, right close to April Fool's day).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2016/03/31/how-donald-trump-exaggerates-and-fibs-about-his-4-5-billion-net-worth/#5e69f7b7787e

Trump claims it's $10 billion.

Why on earth would someone who has $4.5 billion have a need to more than double the true value in his statements?


During the deposition the billionaire famously said that his net worth fluctuates “with markets and with attitudes and with feelings, even my own feelings,” but that he determines the number based on his “general attitude at the time that the question may be asked.” When your fortune ebbs and flows according to your own mood, it’s not hard to push limits or conjure up billions. And what about when Trump isn’t feeling so hot about himself? “You wouldn’t tell a reporter you’re doing poorly,” he said.
...
Trump is a savvy salesman. He knows the bigger the stake in a project or the quicker it sells out, the more successful he looks. If he has to exaggerate to paint that picture, so be it. And the perceived success of Trump the businessman has been the lifeblood of Trump the candidate, driving support from disenchanted voters hoping a strong CEO in the Oval Office will make America rich again (like Trump!).

To bring it a little closer to the ST home, it's like Mr. Honnold, after finishing a solo ascent of The Scream, telling everyone that the video is weak, because it doesn't show that he did it with one arm tied behind his back, a useless and untrue assertion.


skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jun 9, 2016 - 03:52pm PT
Is the Ninth Circuit also biased. . . ?

Yes, in a word. Its decisions are infamous for their singularly leftist tilt, and their specious attempts to evade Supreme Court precedents. For several decades, the Ninth Cirucit has been the most often reversed of all circuit courts of appeal. In one instance in the not-so-distant past, the SCOTUS made a most extraordinary order, enjoining the Ninth Circuit from issuing stays of execution in a particular case because of the clearly lawless actions of jerks like Reinhardt (one of "Carter's Little Liver Pills.")

The fact remains that all judges have biases because they're human. The only evidence of bias I see in the Trump U. case, however, is the bias of Chump himself. I see no reason for the trial judge to recuse himself. If an allegatino of bias were enough to require recusal, a disgruntled litigant could veto every judge who ruled against him or her.

John

Interesting. Both paragraphs that is. I was hoping you would jump in and speak up on this.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 04:07pm PT
Politifact gets everyone, Klimmer.

Who ties your shoelaces for you?

Such a gentleman.......
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 04:29pm PT
Escopeta, sh#t talking is a much different animal than name calling.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 04:32pm PT
how old are you, EscoLIAR?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
Escopeta, sh#t talking is a much different animal than name calling.

Hilarious, rationalize much? So when you called me an as#@&%e, that was gentlemanly too? Good grief.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 9, 2016 - 04:38pm PT
Democrats are growing a set of balls. New game.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
Until Bernie decides to go Indy. Then you will have the left retards and the FAR left retards duking it out.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
Democrats are growing a set of balls. New game. -Bob

From your keyboard to God's eyes.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 9, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
Elizabeth Warren is giving Cheesy Donald hell!! Get used to it, you thin-skinned, racist little creep.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
Clinton Warren 2016.

And why not?

Haven't male male tickets had a long enough run of it?

What, too much change too fast?
Not for this neophile.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 9, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
Don't forget, God is on The Hair's side.

That's why Klimmer doesn't think it would be fair to take your money.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
Some of us do not read klimmer posts,
so you'll have to enlighten us?

Okay I got it. "The Hair's side." lol

.....

E Warren is going to be HRC's bulldog, I bet. :)

(Recall Huxley was Darwin's "bulldog.")

..


Oops, I forgot "nasty" "wannabe tyrant".
Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
I don't know about Warren being a good idea for VP, guys

face it, then you have, gasp, two women on the ballot

and there is a LOT of mouth breathing males who have enough of a problem with Hillary being female

add another female and you are really digging into the "machismo" of hispanic and black "cultures"

yeah I know, so many people despise Trump they probably win anyway, buy why take a chance on it...........
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
Fair point, Norton.

Speaking is hard for me. But come January, I want to say these two words: "Madam President." -Gabby Giffords
Coach37

Social climber
Philly
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
"I'm part Jewish "

How does that work? That's like being "sort of pregnant."
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:30pm PT
Oh no, I think a double woman ticket is just what the Democrat team needs. Double down, why not.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
add another female and you are really digging into the "machismo" of hispanic and black "cultures"

Latin "culture" has withstood four female Latin American presidents in Argentina, Brasil, Costa Rica, and Chile.

There have been seven female Presidents of Afican "cultures" that certainly didn't create more havoc than many of their male counterparts.

Maybe we could hold off from starting a war for one election cycle this past 100 years.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:34pm PT
Hilarious, rationalize much? So when you called me an as#@&%e, that was gentlemanly too? Good grief.

What is the post reference number? Quote my post.

Escopeta, You are a classic troll. That isn't name calling - that is my observation. You meet the classic definition here. Your posts aren't meant to really bring anything to a conversation. They're just made to stir things up to see what you can set in motion.

It's not giving - it's taking. It exemplifies the philosophy of the candidate you support and his minions. It is hateful and small minded behavior that comes primarily from the level of the reptilian part of your brain "What's in it for me." You don't seem to be interested in what you can bring to the table - you seem to more interested in kicking the table over and seeing what you can get away with.

You are playing such a small-minded and mean-spirited little game. You could choose to be bigger and kinder. You will be happier if you do - trust me.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
How about you, EscoLiar?

Care to bet me your boy Trumpy Loses in a landslide?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
Do you guys really think it somehow effects me that you claim I'm a Trump supporter?

It makes you look stupid, so I'm more than willing to let you carry on acting stupid.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
How Trump would act if he were President; a meeting of the White House advisors:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
I'm with Norton- much as I like Warren (more than Hillary, actually), that would create too big of a target for the GOP.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:52pm PT
So Esco...do you plan on voting for Trump, or not? If not Trump, what's your plan?

Or are you just being oppositional for the sake of being oppositional?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
a Trump supporter?


Well, I know Donald Trump and you're no Trump supporter.

zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
Interesting that the Ninth Circuit which makes leftie oriented decisions is biased, while the Fifth Circuit which makes righty oriented decisions is unbiased?

1943-2010 Liberal/Conservative decisions ratio*:

Fifth 0.535
Ninth 1.648


*Considering only cases that were eventually heard by the Supreme Court.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
It makes you look stupid, so I'm more than willing to let you carry on acting stupid.

You got nothin'.


Nor does the other main troll around here Klimmer.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jun 9, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
I think the best post of this thread is the first one:

I love American elections !




It's either that, or the third one.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 06:49pm PT
Is it a noggin issue...

No comment....lol
Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:02pm PT
Interesting that the Ninth Circuit which makes leftie oriented decisions is biased

yes, isn't it it interesting that today the 9th ruled against the NRA (a righty outfit) essentially a 2nd Amendment decision
and in favor of the state of California to make and uphold Concealed Handgun Law.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
in favor of the state of California to make and uphold Concealed Handgun Law.

Yeah, good one.

So, Californians can't carry loaded handguns openly. They can't carry loaded long guns. And now the everyday person can't even carry concealed weapons. So, with this ruling, the right of self-defense is basically dead in California. The whole state is now a "gun free" zone.

Schhhhweeet! It's a paradise for the left.

I'm so glad I'm outta there. Fortunately there are still a few saner states remaining.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
^I don't get it norton.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
Madbolter, too bad you moved to Colorado .....wouldn't you feel more at home in Utah, Idaho or Wyoming?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
^I don't get it norton.

nobody cares about "madbolters" I'm a victim bellyaching, zbrown

good riddance when he leaves, actually Somalia is a good place for him, true "libertarians" there



Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
Do you guys really think it somehow effects me that you claim I'm a Trump supporter?

duh, no we just hope you graduate high school next year....
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
I'm sure it will be much safer in Kali now....
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
Stop whining crybaby wimp.

I've lived in California 70 years and never had to gun-up to protect myself despite having had one pulled on me and living at times in some very tough parts of town.

I do own two that I pretty much inherited. Neither is a handgun and I don't ever get the urge to parade around town with them.



zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:32pm PT
Norton

yes, isn't it it interesting that today the 9th ruled against the NRA (a righty outfit) essentially a 2nd Amendment decision
and in favor of the state of California to make and uphold Concealed Handgun Law.

This is what I was referring to. JE and I were discussing bias in the Circuit Courts. His take is the Ninth is biased (presumably because they lean left). My point is that he didn't discuss right leaners bias_wise.


madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:32pm PT
nobody cares about "madbolters" I'm a victim bellyaching, zbrown

good riddance when he leaves, actually Somalia is a good place for him, true "libertarians" there

ROFL

So predictable:

I'm a victim.

I'm arrogant.

I'm a racist.

I'm a hater.

I'm bitter.

I'm a libertarian.

I'm stupid.

I'm ridiculous.

I perpetually need to check my privilege.

Yeah, yeah.

Whatever.

You guys demonstrate the last vestiges of the left's intellectually bankrupt "responses" to anybody who doesn't agree with every cardinal tenant of your "progressive," nanny-state, give-away everything platform.

Name calling, ad hominem attacks, and vile insults are your MO.

Oh, I forgot: Pointing out that fact is "whining," so....

I'm a whiner.

LOLOLOL

Carry on.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
Stop whining crybaby wimp. I've lived in California 70 years and never had to gun-up to protect myself despite having had one pulled on me and living in some very tough parts of town.

Ah, yes, the dog-pile has just gotten started.

Let's see if I've got this right....

Because you've never felt the need to be armed, that means that NOBODY should have any right to be armed. Petite women, old people, smaller-frame guys who haven't devoted years to martial arts training... in other words, the vast majority of law-abiding citizens should be forced to "just call 911" when trouble comes their way.

Because you are some self-proclaimed bad-ass, EVERYBODY else should just "buck up" and be a bad-ass too.

Right? Did I get it right?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:36pm PT
And now the everyday person can't even carry concealed weapons. So, with this ruling, the right of self-defense is basically dead in California. The whole state is now a "gun free" zone.

Did you actually read the decision MB, or are you just parroting the right wing website du jour.

You are just like the genius at the recent town hall meeting that asked the President, "why are you restricting sales and ownership of our guns". The Presidents response was good and applies to today's ruling

[Click to View YouTube Video]

zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
Right? Did I get it right?

No you did not.


Because you've never felt the need to be armed, that means that NOBODY should have any right to be armed.

and so on and so on


I didn't say that, you did.

Don't try to put words in my mouth. I can speak for myself.

There are millions of folks in California and the rest of the United States that don't share your paranoia. Tons of them are veterans who actually fought in wars, yet don't "feel the burning need" for guns.




madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
Did you actually read the decision MB, or are you just parroting the right wing website du jour.

Did you? And are you able to perform a couple of basic inferences from that decision?

1) It is already illegal to open-carry a loaded firearm. So, open-carry of anything but a useless gun-shaped piece of metal and (perhaps) polymer is illegal.

2) It was already basically impossible to get a concealed carry license, which meant that for the vast majority of Californians, concealed-carry was denied them.

3) This decision cemented California's "right" to stick with both (1) and (2).

Put them together, and you have an entire state in which it is illegal for the vast majority of people to arm themselves with the same weapon of choice used by all of the criminals that will not obey any of these gun laws.

Explain to me how there is any other implication. Explain to me how the "right to keep and BEAR" arms has not been "infringed" in California. Explain to me how the average person in California is able to exercise their 2nd amendment RIGHT (that is, btw, based upon the right of self-defense).
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
I can speak for and defend myself.

Ooooo... SUCH a tough guy.

I'm pissing myself in spurts just thinking about HOW bad-ass you must be!

Of course, you did not explain how the AVERAGE (vast majority) of Californians are supposed to defend themselves... you know, not being as scintillatingly BAD-ass as you.

Oh, right. Trouble never comes to non-bad-asses, so everybody else has nothing to worry about (insert picture of college doors "locked" from the inside with string, etc.).

Just call 911. That's the ONLY "right" you have, and it's ALL that the founders could have meant by "shall not be infringed."

Uh, huh.

Oh, have I mentioned that just reading your mighty words makes me piss myself?

In spastic spurts!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
"I'm a victim.

I'm arrogant.

I'm a racist.

I'm a hater.

I'm bitter.

I'm a libertarian.

I'm stupid.

I'm ridiculous.

I perpetually need to check my privilege."




Dude, leave Republicans alone. They are really hurting right now as they watch their Party implode.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
They are really hurting right now as they watch their Party implode.

You are right about that. It is indeed amazing to watch.

Both parties need to go by the same wayside of history.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
Yeah, except one of them is going to win in November.

The other is going to fade into the history books.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
How about a shocking notion?

How about we have and vote for individual candidates based entirely upon their individual, not-for-sale platforms?

We all talk about getting big-money out of politics, but then we fall all over ourselves to vote for one of the two big-money candidates every time.

Of course, it's just basic game theory that we are in this rut. It would take a majority of us individually chosing to simultaneously do the non-game-theortically sound thing to make a change. But that change could indeed happen literally overnight.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
Yeah, apogee, which is why the non-game-theoretically sound thing is not sound. But in one election cycle we could change the game.

If only enough of us were willing to do the "unsound" thing.

I'm game. I'm gonna do it.

Maybe eventually it will catch on.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 9, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
Blah, blah, blah.

Howzabout you propose such at thing at a time when your preferred Party is looking good in the polls, and will likely win?

Right now, it just looks like desperation.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:00pm PT
Of course, you did not explain how the AVERAGE (vast majority) of Californians are supposed to defend themselves... you know, not being as scintillatingly BAD-ass as you.

No explanation required, the vast (overwhelmingly) majority don't "need" to protect themselves with guns, because they don't live in the same state of paranoia as you.

Hock one of your guns and buy a library card and do a little research on just how much danger the AVERAGE person is in, in California. Then go state by state.

Then get yourself a mirror and stand in front of it with one of your weapons and watch your machismo grow.

I never said I was a badass (which I may or may not be, it's irrelevant here). What I said was I've never been in a situation where a gun was necessary. Neither have the vast majority of folks in California and the U.S.



madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:00pm PT
What is my preferred party?

I would have voted for Bernie, seriously. So, don't call me partisan.

I'm many things, many of them reprehensible, but, ackkk, gag, not that!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
You are just like the genius at the recent town hall meeting that asked the President, "why are you restricting sales and ownership of our guns". The Presidents response was good and applies to today's ruling

His answer expemplified the disconnect between the average US citizen and the elected elite who are surrounded by armed guards all day.

"Oh, I'm not looking to take away your guns, I only want to take away guns from criminals. And oh by the way, I get to decide who qualifies as a criminal" "So, if you have a gun, guess what - you're a criminal."

"How do you spot the precise point where a society is standing at the back of the van and the State has the handcuffs out?"
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
So Esco, stop dodging the question. Are you going to vote for Trump or not?

And why we're at it...how about you, mb?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:04pm PT


94 Plutonium Pu
95 Americium Am
96 Curium Cm
97 Berkelium Bk
98 Californium Cf
99 Einsteinium Es
100 Fermium Fm
101 Mendelevium Md
102 Nobelium No
103 Lawrencium Lr
104 Rutherfordium Rf
105 Dubnium Db
106 Seaborgium Sg
107 Bohrium Bh
108 Hassium Hs
109 Meitnerium Mt
110 Darmstadtium Ds
111 Roentgenium Rg
112 Copernicium Cn
113 Nihonium Nh
114 Flerovium Fl
115 Moscovium Mc
116 Livermorium Lv
117 Tennessine Ts
118 Oganesson Og
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
do a little research on just how much danger the AVERAGE person is in, in California

Ahh, I understand now.

Because the odds are "low" (so some research says), that means that NOBODY should be able to exercise their constitutional right, much less their right of self-defense. The masterminds on the left know exactly what the statistical line is below which people have no need of or use for that ridiculous 18th and 19th century "right."

Did I get it right?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
For the record, the average citizen living in Los Angeles (or other large city) is WAY more likely to be killed than a police officer. And they carry guns all day long.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
Are you going to vote for Trump or not?

I told you just a few posts ago. I'm going to do the "unsound" thing and vote third party. I haven't decided who yet. Just anybody, virtually at random, who is not Trump or Clinton.

I'll cast my vote against the two parties.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
Indeed, Werner.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
Sorry, mb...missed that post.

Third Party, eh? I understand the sentiment, but glad to know Hillary will be the benefactor.

Hope you sleep better that night. Heh!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
I've never been in a situation where a gun was necessary. Neither have the vast majority of folks in California and the U.S.

That 'logic' also applies to people who buy insurance.
I don't need it but the state requires me to get it.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
Oh, I know I'm getting screwed in this election cycle. Too bad most others don't realize the same thing, even if their "preferred candidate" wins.

But the number of us willing to get screwed in order to take a small shot at genuine change will have to increase. Or we're all truly screwed. And Clinton is not gonna save you from that outcome, left or right though you might lean.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
That 'logic' also applies to people who buy insurance.

It also applies to cops, the fire department, and all of the efforts to keep us safe from terrorists.

The vast majority of people will never need any of the above. So, why have/pay-for such extravagances?

For example, I've never needed a fire department in my life. Everywhere I've lived, no need. (I'm just that bad-ass.)

So, why should I have to pay for a fire department that is relatively rarely needed and used by relatively very few people, especially when my personal opinion is that those people needing a fire department were in the wrong place at the wrong time or doing something irresponsible? Right? I mean, that's your argument, zBrown.

That extravagance costs real money, and that's money I'd rather spend on GUNS!

Bwahaaha
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
That 'logic' also applies to people who buy insurance.
I don't need it but the state requires me to get it.

Someone is requiring you to have a gun? What state is that?



Am J Public Health. 2014 Oct;104(10):1912-9. doi: 10.2105/AJPH.2014.302042. Epub 2014 Aug 14.
The relationship between gun ownership and stranger and nonstranger firearm homicide rates in the United States, 1981-2010.
Siegel M1, Negussie Y, Vanture S, Pleskunas J, Ross CS, King C 3rd.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
We examined the relationship between gun ownership and stranger versus nonstranger homicide rates.
METHODS:
Using data from the Supplemental Homicide Reports of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime Reports for all 50 states for 1981 to 2010, we modeled stranger and nonstranger homicide rates as a function of state-level gun ownership, measured by a proxy, controlling for potential confounders. We used a negative binomial regression model with fixed effects for year, accounting for clustering of observations among states by using generalized estimating equations.
RESULTS:
We found no robust, statistically significant correlation between gun ownership and stranger firearm homicide rates. However, we found a positive and significant association between gun ownership and nonstranger firearm homicide rates. The incidence rate ratio for nonstranger firearm homicide rate associated with gun ownership was 1.014 (95% confidence interval=1.009, 1.019).
CONCLUSIONS:
Our findings challenge the argument that gun ownership deters violent crime, in particular, homicides.


zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
Right? I mean, that's your argument, zBrown.

Nope. Your words again.

Nobody other than you and the NRA is telling everyone they need to have a gun.

I can see how some would feel the need to have one, though.

Statistics show that there is very little "benefit" to having a gun, but even California is not denying me a right to own two.

There is a very strong societal benefit to insurance programs (despite their inefficiency) and that is (albeit probably unfairly) distributed across the population.

Not so guns.





Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:33pm PT
What MB wants is the unfettered right for everyone to carry weapons, concealed or openly anywhere they want. The Supreme Court has ruled that there are REASONABLE limits to gun possession. Maybe if MB was reasonable he would understand.

In an atempt to be reasonable maybe we could look at violent crime rates as they relate to gun ownership. Go ahead, google it. Wouldn't a national study on gun violence be a good thing? Problem is the Republicans have effectively banned gun violence research wih Federal money. Why? because they can not handle the truth
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:35pm PT
I'll make you a deal, I won't stand in your way so that you can choose to not have a gun if you don't stand in my way if I choose to have one.

Deal? We good?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
For the record, the average citizen living in Los Angeles (or other large city) is WAY more likely to be killed than a police officer. And they carry guns all day long.

So Esco, I guess the police are being paid way too much? Man, you sure are a dick for suggesting that.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
Someone is requiring you to have a gun? What state is that?

Whoosh (the sound of it going over your head).

Regarding your abstract, I'll tit-for-tat you 'till the cows come home on that sort of "evidence."

All of it misses the point. Human beings, regardless of governmental affiliation and prior to the existence of any government, have a right to life that implies the right of self defense.

The right of self defense implies the right to the means of self defense against plausible assailants (as individuals).

By Modus Tollens, any governmental agency that makes the means of self defense illegal is also making illegal the right to life, and every step up that logical chain further invalidates itself as a putative legitimate governmental agency.

Odds are not the issue here and are a complete red herring.

The issue is that California has committed itself to denying the everyday citizen the means of self defense, which is denying them the right to life. Their "justification" for doing so (if you are to be believed) is: Hey, you don't really need those rights. Your odds of ever needing them are too low to matter. Don't be "fearful." Be happy; call 911. Most of you are gonna live just fine without those pesky rights that we can't trust you to responsibly have in the first place.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:37pm PT
For the record, the average citizen living in Los Angeles (or other large city) is WAY more likely to be killed than a police officer. And they carry guns all day long.

Breathtakingly stupid observation.

Good grief, Esco!
Norton

Social climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:38pm PT
say goodbye to everyone before you leave
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
Unless the house and senate fall to the dems the only thing that's getting done anytime soon is the Supreme Court. So at the moment that's all I care about. After that a win in the senate or house would be gravy, but it's very unlikely the house will change hands. Under these circumstances I'm completely fine with Hillary.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
Nobody other than you and the NRA is telling everyone they need to have a gun.

Saying that every law-abiding citizen has the right to a gun is not the same thing as saying that everybody needs to have a gun. It's a matter of personal choice.

You see, this is the huge difference between me and the masterminds on the left: I believe in rights and liberties and choices. The masterminds just "know" that they know the "right" choice for everybody.

I can see how a punk such as yourself woiuld feel the need to have one.

"Punk"?

LOL... really?

As in "Are you feeling lucky, punk? Well, are you?"

ROFL

Insults, the last and best resort of the "masterminds" that nevertheless have all the "right" choices for all of us.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
Good grief, Esco!

Think I'm wrong? I won't hold it against you since you aren't the only one here that probably thought otherwise.

Just being a citizen in many major metro cities is more dangerous than being a cop anywhere in the country. And we don't think twice about thinking they should carry a gun around all day.

But you all want to restrict other people from protecting themselves. Shame on all of you.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:43pm PT
I'll tit-for-tat you

NO you won't, you're too caught up in type of stuff you spew up above. You can't handle numbers, because they show your arguments are specious.

How many law abiding folks besides you are whining about not being able to have a gun in California? As I recall you're not even in California.









madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:47pm PT
What MB wants is the unfettered right for everyone to carry weapons, concealed or openly anywhere they want. The Supreme Court has ruled that there are REASONABLE limits to gun possession. Maybe if MB was reasonable he would understand.

Here, I'll fix this for you:

What I want is the right for every law-abiding citizen who chooses to to carry appropriate-to-the-individual weapons concealed or openly anywhere they want.

Most people don't want that responsibility, and I'm not in favor of convicted felons having the same right as law-abiding citizens.

What you don't understand is that the right precedes all governments and is not granted by any government. So, whatever the SCOTUS calls "reasonable" today or tomorrow is irrelevant to the actual right.

Like millions of others, I'll be law-abiding on this subject as long as the "infringements" remain not too odious. Once they cross that line, I'll suddenly be non-law-abiding on this subject. California has FAR crossed the line, and "legal experts'" opinions on this are entirely irrelevant as regards the actual underlying right under consideration. This is a case in which California has gone wrong, regardless of what "the law" says.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:51pm PT
Crime is down, armed the masses.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
NO you won't, you're to caught up in type of stuff you spew up above.

Actually, I already HAVE, repeatedly, on the gun threads. I'll tit-for-tat any "study" or "evidence" you want to trot out.

You wanna go for the Australian gun-ban? That's a favorite for the left....

Until they see the Australian studies by their own department of justice and governmental criminal forensic experts who have repeatedly and very publicly stated that it had zero positive effect. Yeah, until the left sees how in Australia guns were simply replaced by bombs and fire as the mass-murder weapon of choice, with almost identical death-tolls in comparable periods.

And it goes on and on.

If ever there was a case of "lies, damned lies, and statistics," the "facts" about guns are that case.

As I said, odds and these sorts of "studies" (concluding either way) are irrelevant.

Human beings, pre-government, have a right of self defense. That right is not granted by any government and cannot legitimately be infringed by any government. Even the hallowed SCOTUS cannot make wrong into right by fiat.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
MB rant on the lefties controlling guns sales and how they are used but nothing about the whack jobs on the right on controlling a woman vagina.


Amazing.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
What you don't understand is that the right precedes all governments and is not granted by any government.


What other rights are you positing? You must be one powerful dude.


Why do you need or even want a weapon? Good luck.




madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
How many law abiding folks besides you are whining about not being able to have a gun in California? As I recall you're not even in California.

Regarding your back-edit, irrelevant.

What's wrong is wrong, even if it's not directly affecting me.

And you confuse "whining" for calling something wrong "wrong."

Fortunately, over the past two decades, that wrong is being beaten down all across this nation. Guns proliferate, as does the recognition of the individual right to carry them; and all forms of violent crime just keep ticking ever downward. On this front, I feel like right is winning.

So, no whining needed.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
It's a meaningless comparison, Esco.

Does the average citizen get the training a police officer gets in gun safety and tactics and pass frequent competency exams?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
MB rant on the lefties controlling guns sales and how they are used but nothing on controlling a woman vagina.

What the heck?

Not even grammatically correct enough for me to parse out, and when have I mentioned a woman's vagina?

Baffling.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 08:59pm PT
What other rights are you positing? You must be one powerful dude.


Why do you need or even want a weapon? Good luck.

Oh, now you're switching it up on me.

I was the one pissing myself in awe and fear of your astounding bad-assishness. You were the supreme bad-ass who has lived "in tough parts of town" yet never "felt" the need of a gun.

How am I suddenly the powerful one? The switch is just to fast for my pea-brain to keep up with.

Rights don't create power. Power is properly and legitimately used to protect rights.

You got it backwards, oh mighty one.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
This thread was a lot more fun when the subject was the Donald.

After a few million posts on the right to blow your own head off it gets boring.
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:25pm PT
Uhmmm, when was the last time any of you FREEDOM! loving nut jobs had to shoot someone in self defense of your life?

I had a legitimately Schizophrenic, PTSD suffering Afghanistan Veteran (recently stopped taking his meds, according to folks that know him) walk into my house at 6:30 in the morning, ranting about going skiing and what time it currently was in Kyrgistan. Dogs going nuts, lady freaking out, him freaking out. He had a big asz knife on his belt. I didn't exercise my right to shoot him and ask questions later. I talked calmly with him. I delt with it without resorting to the use of a deadly compensatory device. I'm sure you ten gallon tards out there would have just shot him within 5 seconds.
Just like the retards that think the only way to safely deal with a bear encounter is to have a cannon on your hip.

So.... When was the last time you had to shoot someone in legitimate defense of your life?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:35pm PT
I only shot people to save them - or at least that's what the navy kept telling me.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:40pm PT
Uhmmm, when was the last time any of you FREEDOM! loving nut jobs had to shoot someone in self defense of your life?

Clever post!

If we mention any incidents in which the gun made a positive difference, then we're "Rambo types" who are "looking for opportunities."

If we don't mention any incidents, then we "prove" the (ridiculous) odds argument.

It's like asking, "Have you stopped raping helpless women yet?"

Loaded question that's illegitimate on the face of it.

I had a legitimately Schizophrenic,... blah, blah.... He had a big asz knife on his belt... blah, blah.... I'm sure you ten gallon tards out there would have just shot him within 5 seconds.

There's a difference between dealing with somebody you know and who knows you compared to dealing with an unknown quantity. And the problem with every anecdotal case is that it's trivial to second guess every possible outcome. But you're "sure" that you "know" how "we" would have handled the situation.

Yeah, right.

Just like the retards that think the only way to safely deal with a bear encounter is to have a cannon on your hip.

Just as with the above, you "know" things you can't possibly know.

Like a doctor: Often wrong; never uncertain.

So.... When was the last time you had to shoot someone in legitimate defense of your life?

The irrelevant, illegitimate, carefully-loaded question again.

Righto. Have fun with that.

Well, I'm off to Hawaii for vacation.

Prolly get et by a shark. Wish I could have my "cannon" in the water with me... so afraid! So afraid!

Later, gents.
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:43pm PT
I didn't know the guy.

Yep. That's what I figured. You are terrified of a hypothetical situation that you've never been in. Congratulations: you are a paranoid f*#king pussy.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:46pm PT
Human beings, regardless of governmental affiliation and prior to the existence of any government, have a right to life

I am still looking in the Constitution for the right to self defense, maybe you have a different copy. Are you armed with the Skousen pocket Constitution?

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/this-mormon-pseudo-historian-is-why-the-oregon-militants-are-so-confused-about-the-constitution/

You do get bonus points for your opposition to capital punishment
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 9, 2016 - 09:52pm PT
Bonus points for choosing to vacation in Hawaii when it's 110 degrees too. But I guess the indoor shooting ranges have AC, so you'll only risk heat exhaustion in the range parking lot, and when you waddle into Carl's JR.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:10pm PT
Looks like he is a deadbeat too. Lot's of folks suing him for debts he never paid.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:12pm PT
you are a paranoid f*#king pussy.

Given my background, a "f*#king pussy" is about the last thing you can reasonably call me.

I mean, even beyond how ridiculous it is to fight any losing battle with insults, I'm one of the last people you should imagine is a "f*#king pussy".

Hey, I have an idea, F. See if you can repeat any of my routes. Then see if you still call me that. This is a climbers' forum, after all.

There are actually only two people I can think of that have the right to call me a pussy. They don't. The rest of you that resort to such insults are poseurs. I fart in your general direction. And your father smells of elderberries. Now, run away.

ROFL

Ah, in a relatively few hours, I'll be out fighting off sharks. What are you guys compared to the terrors of the sea?
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:16pm PT
OMG GIRLFRIEND! You have done a rock climb that nobody else has repeated?!? WOW! Join the f*#king club. When was the last time you had to shoot a human being in defense of your life? Simple question. A date and time, or a "never" will suffice. Que unrelated wall of text tangent.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:19pm PT
a very impressive day in the salt mines you gents have put in...

258 posts in the last 24 hours...

if you/we can keep this rate up we'll be at 38958 + 10424 = 49382 posts by november 9, 2016.

if i'm going to be able to keep up, it might be time to quit my job... 'cause this shIt is serious, yo... last time i heard there are no checks and balances, and for all intents and purposes it's a dictator that is going to be elected on nov. 9...

and so it's important that we plug our ears and yell loudly at people we've never met...

'cause all that stands between us and inhuman incivility, caustic disregard for difference of opinions and generally painting our fellow humans as retards because they don't see the world as we do, is who is elected as president...



so: gooooooo team!!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:22pm PT
I am still looking in the Constitution for the right to self defense, maybe you have a different copy. Are you armed with the Skousen pocket Constitution?

Too funny. Really.

I state that human rights are logically prior to any government, and you respond by looking for such rights in the constitution.

What makes any potential constitution legitimate in the first place is is recognition of, adherence to, and protection of human rights.

Show me in the constitution where any of your favored and newly-minted "civil rights" exist.

I'll show you in the declaration of independence where our founders recognized the right to life. I'll show you in the constitution where it recognizes the pre-existing right to keep and bear arms. The second amendment does not grant the right to arms. It refers to a pre-acknowledged, pre-existing right and seeks to protect it, not grant it.

Show me any right that comes without the right of its own defense built in, and I'll show you a "right" in name only. Every actual right has its own defense logically built in, including the right to life.

Now, here's a simple exercise for you....

Just leave me alone, and I won't threaten your right to not bear arms, and you'll have no problem with nor "threat" from me. My bearing arms will not impinge upon your rights in any way.

The reverse is not the case. I leave you entirely alone, but you and those like you just can't help yourselves but to come trammeling on my rights. And my rights are no danger to you in the slightest.

So, why can't you just leave me alone, like I'll do for you? Why do you make laws to constrain me regarding things that have no actual effect on you at all?
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:24pm PT
Okay. Good job on the unrelated tangent WOT. So...... When was the last time you shot a human in defense of your life?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:25pm PT
...pre-existing right to keep and bear arms. The second amendment does not grant the right to arms. It refers to a pre-acknowledged, pre-existing right and seeks to protect it, not grant it.

That's some serious extrapolative leaping from one moving train car to another...
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:27pm PT
OMG GIRLFRIEND! You have done a rock climb that nobody else has repeated?!? WOW! Join the f*#king club.

Wow. ROFL. You are really on a roll!

Tell ya what, "girlfriend," repeat any of my routes, then consider any of them like just any old unrepeated route at random, continue to call me a "pussy" after that, and then I'll answer your "unrelated" and irrelevant question.

At that point, you'll have earned an answer, even though the question is still "clever" but irrelevant.

Until then, you're just a poseur with a foul mouth on him.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:33pm PT
That's some serious extrapolative leaping from one moving train car to another...

That's some serious falling for the same mistake the federalists feared from a Bill of Rights in the first place, that each of the amendments would eventually be taken as granting the rights that they instead merely mention, and that it would be presumed that government has the power to grant (and thereby also take away) such rights.
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:33pm PT
The answer is obvious. You've never shot a human in defense of your life. But you go on, and on, and on, and on about how you have to carry a gun constantly to protect yourself. From what? A hypothetical situation you've never been in. Which makes you.... A paranoid f*#king pussy.... Who thinks he's a bad ass because he carries a gun everywhere, and has done a rock climb that nobody else has. That's pretty sad.

Have fun in Hawaii. Watch out for the Mexican Muslims everywhere that are out to get ya!!!
When you repeat a few of my unrepeated routes, then you'll still be a paranoid pussy.


JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:33pm PT
nah000, this thread's input about guns today is actually quite on topic, since Trump's political M.O. is to counter argument with insult. I find it amusing that so many who, as I do, disparage Trump nonetheless find it in themselves to stoop to his rhetorical and argumentative tactics.

I will repeat the wisdom of Douglas Adams in The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe that I posted a few thousand back:

"The major problem - one of the major problems, for there are several - one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.

To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem."

John
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 10:59pm PT
I always imagine being president is like standing blindfolded on a railing above a burning pit juggling an M&M, a chainsaw, a skunk and a cobra. No doubt people who want the job have an uncanny ability to focus on how good that M&M is going to taste at the end of the day.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 11:00pm PT
The answer is obvious. You've never shot a human in defense of your life. But you go on, and on, and on, and on about how you have to carry a gun constantly to protect yourself. From what? A hypothetical situation you've never been in.

We all protect ourselves from hypothetical situations all the time, and typically spend a great deal of money to do so. There is no paranoia in being prepared. And it's no very little effort and expense to be prepared to have a fighting chance in a bad situation. You carry any insurance? Does it cost you anything, or am I helping pay for all of yours?

Do you rope up when you climb a route you "should" be able to do without falling? If so, then, by your "logic," you're a "paranoid f*#king pussy."

Who thinks he's a bad ass because he carries a gun everywhere, and has done a rock climb that nobody else has. That's pretty sad.

What's sad is that you "blah, blah, blah" like you know me. You insult me in vile terms like it's legitimate to do so. You flail around insults like you think that's how to "win" an argument. That really is sad, and, even more sadly, you're just an exemplar of the increasingly vile and shut-down-discussion-with-yelling-and-insults left.

I'll say again, do any of my routes and while spending days falling and falling and tearing the flesh off your body and breaking your bones (all of which you WILL do), repeat to yourself as often as you can catch a breath: "Jensen is a paranoid f*#king pussy."

When you repeat a few of my unrepeated routes, then you'll still be a paranoid pussy.

Well, my guess is that it doesn't take anybody but a poseur to repeat any of your (probably unrepeated by obscurity) routes. But, hey, you know, I don't know you, because "F" is no handle. So, point me at one of them, and I'll be happy to give it a go. I'm always up for a "challenge."

Seriously, point me in the right direction, if it's possible to even find any of 'em.

Although, getting over the "lofty bar" of one of your routes, as you yourself say, won't differentiate "pussy" from "non-pussy."

I think you'll find any of mine to be different in that regard.

There's lots of evidence to accuse me of all sorts of character shortcomings and failings. But "pussy" is not one of them. ;-)
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 9, 2016 - 11:02pm PT
I always imagine being president is likely standing blindfolded on a railing above a burning pit juggling an M&M, a chainsaw, a skunk and a cobra. No doubt people who want the job have an uncanny ability to focus on how good that M&M is going to taste at the end of the day.

Brilliant, Joe! Loved it.

Well, that leaves this thread with a good taste in my mouth. I'm outty for weeks.
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 9, 2016 - 11:06pm PT
jesus h.
The assumption that SOMEDAY FOR SURE you'll need a gun to protect yourself is as ignorant an assumption as that unrepeated rock climbs I've done are unrepeated because of obscurity.
Forget it

Get more guns

They will save you from the woman who wears pant suits, and the coming hordes of Mexicans and Muslims
Merica!
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jun 9, 2016 - 11:11pm PT

What Is Sticking out of Your Backpack?

US Spies Are Building Software to Spot Your Suspicious Behavior In Live Video

The program is called Deep Intermodal Video Analytics—or DIVA—and it seeks to locate shooters and terrorists before they strike....ODNI’s Intelligence Advanced Research Projects Agency is gathering academics and private sector experts for a July 12 “Proposers’ Day,” in anticipation of releasing a work solicitation.

https://www.iarpa.gov/index.php/research-programs

Look under the D as in DIVA

Hit DIVI

Deep Intermodal Video Analytics (DIVA)

The Intelligence Advanced Research Projects Activity (IARPA) will host a Proposers’ Day Conference for the DIVA program on July 12, 2016, in anticipation of the release of a new Broad Agency Announcement (BAA) solicitation. The Conference will be held from 9:00 am to 5:00 pm EDT in the Washington, DC metropolitan area. The purpose of the conference will be to provide information on DIVA and the research problems the program aims to address, to address questions from potential proposers and to provide a forum for potential proposers to present their capabilities for teaming opportunities. This announcement serves as a pre-solicitation notice and is issued solely for information and planning purposes. The Proposers’ Day Conference does not constitute a formal solicitation for proposals or proposal abstracts. Conference attendance is voluntary and is not required to propose to future solicitations (if any) associated with this program. IARPA will not provide reimbursement for costs incurred to participate in this conference.

Program Description and Goals

The DIVA program intends to develop robust automated activity detection for a multi-camera streaming video environment. As an essential aspect of DIVA, activities will be enriched by person and object detection, as well as recognition at multiple levels of granularity. DIVA is anticipated to be a three-phase program. The program will focus on three major thrusts throughout all phases:

◾Detection of primitive activities occurring in ground-based video collection; Examples include:

◾Person getting into a vehicle,

◾Person getting out of vehicle,

◾Person carrying object.

◾Detection of complex activities, including pre-specified or newly defined activities; Examples: ◾Person being picked up by vehicle,
◾Person abandoning object,

◾Two people exchanging an object,

◾Person carrying a firearm.

◾Person and object detection and recognition across multiple overlapping and nonoverlapping camera viewpoints.

The focus for phase 1 will be on video collected with the following properties:

◾Video collected within the human visible light spectrum;

◾Video collected from indoor or outdoor security cameras, either fixed or with rigid motion such as pan-tilt-zoom.

In phases 2 and 3, additional data used will include:

◾Video collected from handheld or body worn cameras;

◾Video collected from other portions of the electromagnetic spectrum (e.g., infrared).

The DIVA program will produce a common framework and software prototype for activity detection, person/object detection and recognition across a multi-camera network. The impact will be the development of tools for forensic analysis, as well as real-time alerting for user defined threat scenarios.

Collaborative efforts and teaming among potential performers will be encouraged. It is anticipated that teams will be multidisciplinary, and might include expertise in machine learning, deep learning or hierarchical modeling, artificial intelligence, object detection, recognition, person detection and re-identification, person action recognition, video activity detection, tracking across multiple non-overlapping camera viewpoints, 3D reconstruction from video, super-resolution, statistics, probability and mathematics. Performers will not be asked to build a monolithic system for activity detection and tracking across a large camera network. Instead, research will focus on developing a common scalable framework that deploys in an open cloud architecture for activity detection, person/object detection and recognition across overlapping and non-overlapping cameras.
IARPA anticipates that academic institutions and companies from around the world will participate in this program. Researchers will be encouraged to publish their findings in academic journals.
……………….

This pinnacle of the program involves “person and object detection and recognition across multiple overlapping and non-overlapping camera viewpoints,” IARPA officials said.

Same info another perspective

http://www.nextgov.com/defense/2016/06/us-spies-training-computers-spot-suspicious-activity-live-videos/128844/?oref=ng-skybox

This should make the NRA happy guns, guns and more guns did not say about anything about pot or coke “Two people exchanging an object,”

*Note IARPA is public so material is unclassified so if you have any input [pot issues] or solutions by means register. Now if you want to access DARPA programs good luck.


healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 9, 2016 - 11:19pm PT
US Spies Are Building Software to Spot Your Suspicious Behavior In Live Video

It's strictly a 'you'll shoot your eye out' warning system...
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jun 10, 2016 - 12:24am PT
That and playing around with your [you,me,everyone] brains.

San Diego has two programs, one classified under DARPA and the other one unclassified with IARPA. "Mapping the Brain"

DARPA is using it and is close to AI for future wars. IARPA is helping to treat traumatic brain injury vets coming back from our current wars,
classified as "micro prosthetics brain wounds cognitive modeling"

Problem if it works and it does have promise but what's stopping them from programming for their own use. It has been proven it does.

You need to look making sure who is advising who and who is advising the advisors? As in who is behind Hillary or Trump. Those are the ones that have the power.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 10, 2016 - 06:10am PT
One thing we can all agree on: Times have changed.


Poor Wilkie.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 10, 2016 - 06:14am PT
We're about to eclipse "What is Mind"...

Perhaps this thread should be re-titled "What is Mindless"

20k by November? Easily....
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 10, 2016 - 06:15am PT
Times have changed.

More evidence: Note from HW Bush to Clinton...


Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 10, 2016 - 06:40am PT
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/06/are-trumps-poll-numbers-collapsing.html
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 10, 2016 - 06:53am PT
Yes. Stop feeding him.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 10, 2016 - 07:17am PT
Well, at least one person has realized who the left's worst enemy is.....
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 10, 2016 - 07:33am PT



cute, but I would still smack the motherf*#ker

overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 10, 2016 - 07:41am PT
^^^^^^^^ THAT'S good s h i t right there
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 10, 2016 - 08:08am PT
It'd be like killing one bird with two stones..... or something like that..

-GWB
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 10, 2016 - 08:27am PT
OMG



the Clintons are friends with the Bushs TOOOooooooooo

Just proves they're all the same, they're all working for the New World Order

NWO II should come by soon to confirm.
He may have said something about this earlier
and Obama is Kerry's second cousin or something like that

Their ALL connected is the point ><
Mark Force

Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
Jun 10, 2016 - 08:36am PT
HFCS, Thanks for posting! What a cool thing. That is a classy letter.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 10, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
Norton, it would be a bold move to go with E Warren though. What would it say about America if a Clinton Warren 2016 ticket was not successful?

I think I'd like to see it still. The ticket that is. Here she is from yesterday...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsqYUexAqsY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren


Mark, glad you read it. Classy indeed.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 10, 2016 - 12:37pm PT
What would it say about America if a Clinton Warren 2016 ticket was not successful?

I know what it would say.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jun 10, 2016 - 12:47pm PT
I do too.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 10, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
Especially if they lost to Trump & co. That would not be good for women in politics.


I still think Trump will be the first POTUS candidate in history to not select a VP running mate. He's so narcissistic that he'll believe that no-one is on the same level as he is, and that he can do this all by himself.
Coach37

Social climber
Philly
Jun 10, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
It will surpise me if Warren is on the ticket. I believe her home state has a GOP governor, who would appoint a GOP member in her place. That could swing the balance on many things in the Senate, depending on how the election goes.

The better bet if you support the DEM side might be to keep her in the Senate and let her be the "attack dog" surrogate on the campaign trail.

This has been a bizarre election, so I won't make predictions, but it will be interesting to see who Mrs. Clinton chooses, and more interesting to see who Mr. Trump chooses. Will any establishment GOP politicians be willing to risk a run with Trump? It could easily end their career to be tied to him if he loses in a landslide and many are backing away from him even after endorsing him. Maybev the "YOU LIE!" congressguy from SC could get on the ticket, or Steve King, maybe even Louis Gomert.

I would pay good money to see Gomert in a debate, he's a card.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 10, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
I think Hillary will choose Sherrod Brown from Ohio.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 10, 2016 - 02:28pm PT
Unfortunately, Jennifer Granholm was born in Canada.

Indeed, I've always been impressed by her.

February 5, 1959 (age 57)
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Granholm
dirtbag

climber
Jun 10, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
I think Hillary will choose Sherrod Brown from Ohio.


Kasich would then get to pick a senator to to replace him.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 10, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
There is hope for us yet.




[Click to View YouTube Video]
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 10, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 10, 2016 - 05:54pm PT
Also: there's not a single mention of Trump on the RNC website. You have to do a search for him to find anything.

Www.gop.com


Heh
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jun 10, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
Funny that MB1 is bitching about California's "radical" courts deciding that concealed carry is not a constitutional right, when his own Colorado State constitution has always explicitly declared that concealed carry is not a constitutional right. He should be ashamed of himself, just a serf under such a tyrannical, illegitimate government.

TE
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jun 10, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
Also: there's not a single mention of Trump on the RNC website. You have to do a search for him to find anything.

Www.gop.com


Heh

Democrats website has only two mentions of Hillary and one of those is almost a year old.

TE
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 10, 2016 - 06:09pm PT
Geez Klimmer, he looks like Napoleon, with the small hands and all.

You've really drunk (drank? drunken?) the Kool-Aid.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 10, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
well then

two is more than zero is it not?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 10, 2016 - 06:27pm PT

Jun 10, 2016 - 05:54pm PT
Also: there's not a single mention of Trump on the RNC website. You have to do a search for him to find anything.

Www.gop.com


Heh

Not to worry.

He's front and center on the DNC site.


https://www.democrats.org
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 10, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
In a small victory for gun toters, there was a decision today in the Ammon Bundy trial, where the judge struck down one of the most serious charges against the Malheur occupiers.


The judge declared that the charge of brandishing a gun in a violent felony did not apply.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 10, 2016 - 06:55pm PT

Jun 10, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
Klimmer is 1000% right!!!!

Trump is Gods great gift to the Hillary loons on this forum.

Without Trump these nutcase Hillary politards wouldn't know what to do with themselves .....

The smoking crankloon, on the other hand, is completely dialed in on his quacking.

The mathematics of 1000% is a bit questionable...

Give him credit for 110% effort.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 10, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
Lorenzo, it involves quantum mechanics and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle; the closer you look at what they are saying the less you know about what they mean.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 10, 2016 - 07:41pm PT
LOL...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 10, 2016 - 09:30pm PT
Romney just out-d#@&%ed himself. This sh#t is just weird now....

And now Ryan is hangin w/Romney for the weekend with DOuch-Priebus? WTF???

wow
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 10, 2016 - 09:40pm PT
The Repub club is very afraid of Trump for some reason. The elites fear something big, they're behaving irrationally.

I wonder what it is they fear?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 10, 2016 - 09:47pm PT
A) they fear their party will blow up if they don't endorse Trump.

2) they fear endorsing Trump because Trump has a record of belittling everybody who he has ever dealt with. He already said " Romney was on his knees trying to get me to endorse him last election."

III) Trump screws and sues anybody he has ever dealt with

4) if they endorse trump and then he does something even more racist or stupid than he has already done, they will be branded as endorsing a racist idiot and be unelectable.

The 20 seats are already gone. That's not it.
splitter

Trad climber
HighwayToHell
Jun 10, 2016 - 09:54pm PT
It is the duty of everyman, so far as his ability allows, to detect and expose delusion and error. - Thomas Paine
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 10, 2016 - 09:55pm PT
The problem with the Repub Club is that they refuse to listen to the people who vote them in. Strong on message for the votes, weak delivery. Very weak.

Conservatives, including some Dems, are pissed at this.

Now all the Repub Club is pissed because nobody listened to them on who to vote for.

whatever...Have I said that Romney should go away and STFU now???
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 10, 2016 - 10:11pm PT
Trumps kids are better spokesmen for Donald. Not for me, but they're more polished than dad is.

Donald is gonna roll Hillary. I think he's waiting to see what the Repub Club is gonna pull at the convention.

or what the FBI does...
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 10, 2016 - 10:26pm PT
One of the most telling things about the Q&A was this:


Sweetheart. He had to endorse somebody. Which Republican didn't show questionable character or didn't run a campaign based on personal attacks divisiveness?

That's why they are where they are. The Tea Party modus bit them in the ass. Trump just did it better.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 10, 2016 - 10:41pm PT
I think he's waiting to see what the Repub Club is gonna pull at the convention.


I thought Romney wasnt going to attend?


If the FBI is your best hope, it's worse for the GOP than I thought.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 10, 2016 - 10:43pm PT
"And now Ryan is hangin w/Romney for the weekend with DOuch-Priebus? WTF???"


Umm, that would be the clearest sign yet of the implosion of the Trump-f*#k to date.

And to a more important degree, the end of the GOP as we currently know it.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 10, 2016 - 11:55pm PT
Trump must truly be insane, to think that voters are going to disregard his vast history of fraud, deceit, larceny and exploitation of his employees.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/



USA Today has uncovered hundreds of liens and lawsuits filed against Trump and his companies for theft of wages, stealing tips from waitresses, and non-payment for painting, plumbing and other construction work. Trump has even screwed his own attorneys by refusing to pay them.

Trump says he is a champion of the "little guy", but he has repeatedly used the courts to overpower "the little guy" in order to withhold payment for work that has been completed. Trump's business chicanery has resulted in a number of small business being forced into bankruptcy and out of existence.

Trump's Art of the Deal is to "renegotiate" the terms of a deal by claiming inferior quality work. Presumably, this is why the dishwasher at Trump's Doral Miami golf resort had to sue Trump to get properly paid. And that's why Trump up-charges catering bills with a 22% gratuity, but then keeps the servers' tips for himself.


For just one Trump construction project, the Trump Taj Mahal, New Jersey state records show that in 1990 Trump withheld almost $70 million from 256 subcontractors. Trump paid as little as 30 cents on the dollar, claiming inferior work. He then asked those same contractors to continue to work on Trump projects. Many of the small construction companies that Trump defrauded in this manner went out of business.




In a USA TODAY interview, Trump repeatedly said the cases were “a long time ago,” despite the fact that he is currently embroiled in a large number of lawsuits for non-payment, fraud and other shady business dealings. Trump rationalized theft of hourly wages and non-payment to contractors by claiming he was unhappy with the work. He then said, “That’s what the country should be doing.”

In the interview, Trump said, “We pay everybody what they’re supposed to be paid, and we pay everybody on time.”

Presumably, Trump gets to decide "what they're supposed to be paid," regardless of what labor laws and work contracts require. Trump's idea of paying "on time" is use the courts to stall payment as long as possible, and to deplete the resources of people he owes money to.

In the same interview, Trump's daughter Ivanka defended him, and said that the Trump Organization pays hundreds of millions of dollars to employees, contractors, vendors and others that do business with the organization.

Ivanka is currently being sued by a small jewelry company that says she refused to pay for delivered diamond jewelry because Ivanka's AutoCAD design drawings were returned to her one day late.



Last month, Trump’s refusal to pay a Florida painter more than $30,000 for his work at the Doral led the judge in the case to order foreclosure of the resort if the contractor was not promptly paid. Juan Carlos Enriquez, owner of The Paint Spot, in South Florida, has been waiting more than two years to get paid.

The judge ordered last month that the Doral resort be foreclosed on, sold, and the proceeds used to pay Enriquez the money he was owed. Trump’s attorneys have since filed a motion to delay the sale, and the contest continues.

Enriquez still hasn’t been paid.

In courtroom testimony, the manager of the general contractor for the Doral renovation admitted that a decision was made not to pay The Paint Spot because Trump had “already paid enough.”

The judge noted in his ruling that as the construction manager spoke, “Trump’s trial attorneys visibly winced, began breathing heavily, and attempted to make eye contact” with the witness.




You can't make this stuff up.

Trump's reality is far, far more diabolical than any fiction could ever possibly be.


healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 11, 2016 - 02:28am PT
The gop has several problems with trump.

First and foremost is he personifies and shines a bright light on their sixty year history of campaigning solely on bigotry, hate and fear.

Second, his personal business history is based on avarice, greed and screwing the little guy thus reminding everyone of the fact the gop is the right hand of corporate interests who don't give a rip about the average citizen other than how much debt load they can be burdened with over their lifetimes.

Third, he's donald and can't be scripted which is horrifying in and of itself to campaign professionals and there's just no dodging his overspray.

On top of those he's also a black hole media sink stealing attention from other races and throwing senate and house campaigns into disarray as a result. And fending off the collateral damage he generates is keeping the RNC too off-balance and distracted to be effective in supporting important house and senate races.

It's a disaster.

But it's also what happens when you gerrymander excessively on racial and economic lines for decades such that the gop primary then unavoidably becomes a race-to-the-bottom spectacle ahead of the general election.
perswig

climber
Jun 11, 2016 - 02:57am PT
The elites fear something big, they're behaving irrationally. I wonder what it is they fear?

That's he's behaving even more irrationally.
Dale

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 11, 2016 - 05:28am PT
Funny that a rich, white, arrogant racist is going to destroy the republican party. Karma!
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 11, 2016 - 07:14am PT
Donald posted on twitter :
"Mitt Romney had his chance to beat a failed president but he choked like a dog. Now he calls me racist-but I am least racist person there is"

So there you have it you can stop playing the racist card against him.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 11, 2016 - 07:17am PT
i need a little help here trail...

if he's the least racist person there is then why do all the racists flock to him like he's the second coming of hitler?

maybe i'd get a better answer out of dummy donald dummy drumpf?
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 11, 2016 - 07:33am PT
The herd will flock to anything that they can twist their ideas around. They clearly liked his idea of a wall. It enables the thinking of superiority by keep others out it makes one feel special, but the only difference is not one of superior genes, just purely chance and luck of being on this side of an imaginary line. America has been successful, not because who we are, but where we are. Its all about resources.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 11, 2016 - 07:34am PT
#OrangeIsNotTheNewBlack
dirtbag

climber
Jun 11, 2016 - 07:39am PT
Mitt Romney played a role in legitimizing the Orange One in 20111 when he sought his endorsement. Everyone knew that the Orange One's birtherism was dog whistle racism.

It's hard to take Romney's whines seriously: he fed the orange monster.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 11, 2016 - 07:46am PT
The great white hope is orange.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 11, 2016 - 08:43am PT
^^^ yup, so true.

well then, oh great smoking duck, what then do you suggest those incapable of seeing themselves for what they are do?

How does a racist admit they are a racist and change?

how does a believer in an imaginary friend in the sky realize the god they seek is inside them and make the change from being a follower to a believer in their own personal divinity?

You've got the orange one blaming others for the problems his followers suffer from. And he's got them believing he'll fix it. Do you really believe he's ever going to offer the idea that the problems people have in the world belong to themselves and the solution is to look inside and not blame others? He's a Demagogue and a con man. What's the solution there oh wise one?

The great yogi's of the world get it. The Tantra offers a teaching that we should explore the possibility that we might not be correct. A teaching that makes one look at their position and ask how they might be wrong. It doesn't make the other position correct. It's not an easy thing to do. Not an easy path.


But seriously Werner... you continue to point out what the problem is but not once have you offered a solution. What say yee? And do you need a light?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 11, 2016 - 08:46am PT
Maybe Alex Jones can beam in a Leader from Area 51 acceptable to our interplanetary visitor.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 11, 2016 - 08:48am PT
"But seriously Werner... continue to point out what the problem is but not once have you offered a solution. What say yee? And do you need a light?"


Werner doesn't have one he just love to insult and that bizarre little mind of his he thinks he is above the fray. Just like every other spiritual fake.


On the floor of the NBA final last night.


nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 11, 2016 - 09:01am PT
Thanks Dad. But I got this one. Yer in over your head. Maybe just stick to bad parenting ;-)
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 11, 2016 - 09:31am PT
or an answer to my question
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 11, 2016 - 09:33am PT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFw2qecPrNw[Click to View YouTube Video]

live
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 11, 2016 - 09:42am PT
How could anyone listen to that guy for more than 30 seconds? 2 hours of that sh#t, please
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 11, 2016 - 09:51am PT
Breaking News! Trump Still A Prick!
jstan

climber
Jun 11, 2016 - 10:13am PT
Time to focus on the down ticket races.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 11, 2016 - 10:34am PT
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/senate-2016-the-democrats-strike-back/
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 11, 2016 - 10:35am PT
"Now it's really just a matter of waiting it out and hoping like hell he keeps fuking up and shooting his grape hole mouth off..."


That's pretty much the fact. If the election was held today, he'd go down in flames, but he has enough time to change his tone and reign in his krap so that people forget about how much of an as#@&%e he is over the next few months.

Amazing how short people's memories can be.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 11, 2016 - 10:57am PT
...seriously Werner...

There's your first problem.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 11, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
Like I've been saying - trump's biggest problem is there's just too much time before the election - too much time for him to shoot his mouth off, too much time for the media and opposition research folks to really dismantle him and his claims.

Stiffing working people, not paying his bills, no taxes, fake charity claims, imported labor, bankruptcy as a business practice - the list and beat goes on...worser and worser for both him and the gop who can't distance themselves from their own creation.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 11, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
They're stuck with him. That's the best part of all.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 11, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
Stiffing working people, not paying his bills, no taxes, fake charity claims, imported labor, bankruptcy as a business practice - the list and beat goes on...worser and worser for both him and the gop who can't distance themselves from their own creation.

worth repeating
dirtbag

climber
Jun 11, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 11, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
Yes just keep repeating the same sh!t over and over ...

referring to yourself? you're a broken record. John is beyond correct. install greasemonkey. grease this stupid sh#t. focus on what you do well. this isn't it.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 11, 2016 - 02:53pm PT
You guys need to cut Werner some slack - so to speak. Imagine how crazy it must be for everyone in the NPS in Yosemite, getting ready for the Obamas' visit.

Yeah, they are probably tearing their hair out trying to figure out how to stop all the mindless quacking.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 11, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
Pretty good work there
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 11, 2016 - 03:44pm PT

Jun 11, 2016 - 03:39pm PT

Just talked to Obama and he said; "Now duck WTF is up with those stoopid politard loons on that climbing forum????"

He said he might not want come to Kalifornikha because there's too many politard weirdos .....

heh heh heh ....

He's a very wise man. There are a lot of weirdos living there.

I might just take his advice until the election is over.



Heh heh heh....
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 11, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
What a fraud

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Jun 11, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 11, 2016 - 05:30pm PT
That's right, Klimmer, nothing has changed .... except you. You've gotten sucked into the Trumpian whirlpool, and are being pulled deeper and deeper, spinning faster and faster. You've forgotten the 'Massive Ark on the Moon' and how important that was for you for like, six years. All that has been erased and now all you have this, this is what your life has become:


Man, that's a fall from grace. From the beautiful and profound 'Ark on the Moon' to supporting this 'man'. A man who made his fortune by ripping off little people then killing them with court costs. A man who repeatedly declared bankruptcy after funneling money to himself, stiffing the share holders. A man who is a racist, misogynistic son of a bitch who doesn't care what happens to you AT ALL. You've drunk the Kool-Aid and seem to like it. What will you do when Trump loses and all your prophetic prognostications prove to be perfectly preposterous pusillanimous puffery (thanks, Spiro)?

E-mail me then and I'll send you a bottle of wine. No charge.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 11, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
Nah, when Trump loses I'll send you a bottle no charge, to help assuage the defeat. Seriously, I don't think you're a bad guy; I just really can't understand how you, as a thinking person, can support such a malevolent creature as Trump. Listen to what he has said; over years and years and years; that is the real person he is. His history of narcissistic activity shows his true nature. He doesn't want anything except what he wants. He doesn't care about you, or me, or America. It's all just an act.

I could never watch his TV show - he was an ass. And that is what he really, truly, deep inside is. A self centered ass. Really, Klimmer, do some of your endless youtube research and look for the real Trump. Yeah, I know, he is channeling god's word or something, but really he's not. He aims his sh#t at people like you, who need something in their lives to hold onto. But he is really just a very good salesman and a con atrist, with no product to sell.

The wine's on me.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 11, 2016 - 06:00pm PT

The whine's on me.


Ain't that the truth.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 11, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
You are fools. You really want to know what Hillary thinks of you, mere pawns.. worse than pawns. She cannot relate to you nor can Trump, at least he is an as#@&%e. There is a glimpse of honestly in that. But you keep thinking she has raised from the dead and is here to save you. Saying the same sh#t over and over again. A wise man once said, the loudest man in the room is the weakest.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 11, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
Klimmer, you are one crazy, entertaining dude. Keep that stuff coming, bro, cracks me up. That InfoWars stuff is priceless satire.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jun 11, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
moooooooooon pie! Creamy whipped cray-cray filling sandwiched between two wacky wafers, all with a chocolate cuckoo coating.



Norton

Social climber
Jun 11, 2016 - 06:52pm PT
Michael Hayden: Trump Is Helping ISIS


Michael Hayden, the former head of both the CIA and the NSA, explained in an interview with the Guardian that “the jihadist narrative is that there is undying enmity between Islam and the modern world.”

“When Trump says they all hate us, he’s using their narrative,” Hayden said. “He’s feeding their recruitment video.”
In the months after the San Bernardino shooting, as well as November’s deadly terror attacks in Paris, Muslims across the U.S. have seen an increase in violence and harassment. Last month, one Trump supporter in D.C. allegedly called a woman wearing a hijab a terrorist and a “worthless piece of Muslim trash.” A group of men in Kansas reportedly beat up a Muslim student while shouting Trump’s name.

Trump has dismissed concerns that his xenophobic rhetoric is hateful. The former reality TV star, who has also made racist statements about Mexican immigrants, said that two of his fans who beat up a Hispanic man were simply “passionate.”

Editor’s note: Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S.
HP
dirtbag

climber
Jun 11, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
Michael Hayden: Trump Is Helping ISIS

What would he know?


But Alex jones says...
dirtbag

climber
Jun 11, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
Donald J. Trump is not a member. They hate him. He won't play their sick world domination NWO games, but will instead expose them.


Lol..yep, that's Donald. Unconnected.


It's funny that you completely twist the weird conspiracy paradigms that you believe control the world to promote Donald.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jun 11, 2016 - 08:00pm PT
I worry for Klimmer's sanity should trump somehow win the election because that will cement these whack-a-doodle prophecies in his mind as valid, sending him further down the rabbit hole.

Vote Hillary, for Klimmer's sake!!
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 11, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
You should be more concerned with your own sanity
c wilmot

climber
Jun 11, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
Obama is aiding ISIS

the "rebels" he supports are nothing more than Islamic terroist groups working for the same goal- an islamic caliphate

Hayden is just another propaganda tool
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 11, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

I'm sure HIllary or Donald will keep us out of the these nasty foreign entanglements.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 11, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
So Klimmer, you won't actually respond to my post? Have a dialogue? Why not? Free wine, man. But i guess that's pretty much your normal response, nothing except youtube posts..
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 11, 2016 - 08:35pm PT
Try Esco.

On second thought, don't bother.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 11, 2016 - 09:04pm PT
I bet many threads like this exist on the event horizon of black holes.



August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jun 11, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
I bet many threads like this exist on the event horizon of black holes.

Well that would explain the information paradox.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 11, 2016 - 09:16pm PT
Yeah, there's a certain "WTF" but at the same time I just can't look away.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 11, 2016 - 10:07pm PT
(well she's a lesbian so you ain't getting any loving back)

This must come from the grade school students you abuse.

You certainly have no knowledge of her sexuality, but it is awfully juvenile to direct a gay epithet at her, anyway.

but what should we expect from a homosexual like you?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 11, 2016 - 11:18pm PT
How did this Donald Trump thread turn into the You Bashed Me, so I'll Bash You thread?

I've tried to just post factual information about Trump, colored with some pseudo-slanderous garnish, which is what The Donald would call FACTUAL HYPERBOLE (c.f., The Art of The Deal).

Please refrain from ad hominem attacks against other people posting here.

We're trying to skewer and roast Donald Trump, a vicious, insatiable sociopathic cannibal who gloats over his ability to plunder others to appease and fuel his emotionally disturbed downward spiral into CTE-based senility.

Noam Sane?




Donald Trump running for president is like Michael Jordan trying to play baseball.

It is better to stick with what you are very good at, and to leave the other tasks to others.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 11, 2016 - 11:22pm PT
We're trying to skewer and roast Donald Trump, a vicious, insatiable sociopathic cannibal who gloats over his ability to plunder others to appease and fuel his emotionally disturbed downward spiral into CTE-based senility.

But...

What do you really think about the Donald?


LOL
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 11, 2016 - 11:55pm PT


Meg Whitman, the chief executive of Hewlett Packard Enterprise, at an event for Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey in February. On Friday, Ms. Whitman compared Donald J. Trump to Hitler and Mussolini during a Republican retreat in Utah. Credit Cheryl Senter for The New York Times
A tenuous peace in the upper echelons of the Republican Party showed signs of unraveling this weekend as a major donor compared Donald J. Trump to Hitler and Mussolini, Mr. Trump and Mitt Romney reignited their feud, and one of Mr. Trump’s aides took a shot at an important campaign ally.

Meg Whitman, the chief executive of Hewlett Packard Enterprise and a major contributor to Republican candidates, railed against Mr. Trump on Friday at a closed-door meeting of Republicans in Park City, Utah, comparing him to the Axis leaders, according to several people in attendance who declined to be identified because the discussion was private.

The comments, first reported by The Washington Post, came at Mr. Romney’s annual retreat of Republican donors, leaders and business executives. Mr. Trump’s candidacy, and the divisions it is causing among leading Republicans, was an undercurrent of the gathering. Mr. Romney has been outspoken in his refusal to support Mr. Trump, the party’s presumptive presidential nominee, even as other party figures have grudgingly fallen into line.

No one has personified the party’s divisions like Paul D. Ryan, the House speaker, and the pressure on him intensified this weekend. At the Utah retreat on Friday, Campbell Brown, a former CNN anchor, pressed Mr. Ryan on his decision to support Mr. Trump, according to an attendee, saying she did not know how to explain it to her children.

Then, on Saturday, Dan Scavino Jr., a senior adviser and the social media director for the Trump campaign, criticized Mr. Ryan on Twitter, linking to an article on a conservative website that accused him of harming his party, complete with the headline “Paul Ryan Is the Reason the G.O.P. Is Losing America.”

The discord appeared to bring a quick end to a period of relative peace in the party that began Tuesday when Mr. Trump issued a statement in which he backed away, slightly, from remarks accusing a federal judge of being biased against him because of the judge’s Mexican heritage. Mr. Trump did not apologize but said his remarks had been “misconstrued.”


I think we will get an interesting GOP convention.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:15am PT
I think we will get an interesting GOP convention.


Tin soldiers for Trump are coming,
They're finally on their own.
This summer they'll hear Trump's drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.
perswig

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:15am PT
By the way, Donald J. Trump is not racist ... He has married foreign women.

This is excellent. It also proves he is not a misogynist, right?
Dale
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:22am PT
That also proves he is not a highly dysfunctional human being, and not a seriously closeted homosexual, and that can't possibly be the source of an emotional disturbance that has fueled his lifelong need to overcome and destroy every "lesser" person he has ever come into contact with.


CALIGULAR - v.i - of, or related to Caligula




Every woman Trump has married (thrice) has been a fashion model.



Just sayin' . . . . . . . .

dirtbag

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:25am PT
I'll post it again:

There is something seriously wrong with this man's heart.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:42am PT
It is well documented that Trump cheated on his first two wives, and that was most likely the reason they bailed on him. Ivana famously chased Trump down a ski slope in Aspen when he tried to run away from her when he was caught there with Marla Maples (La Secunda). During that incident, Trump was so stupid, he thought he could out-ski his wife Ivana, who was an Olympic Games skier. Dood's insane.

Presently, there is a lack of cheating evidence, so The Charm Effect superstition gives up a benefit of the doubt about his marriage to Melania, who may be a Saint*.













* Don't kill the messenger, but I predict this marriage will not survive Trump's presidential campaign nonsense. I predict she will bail. I also predict she will take the son, Baron, with her.

A relationship based on money and power is only sustainable as long as both are in place. My father's second marriage collapsed when the early/mid 1970's real estate boom collapsed.

I really hate to see Melania thrown into this media shitstorm. She seems nice enough. Marla Maples also seemed nice enough, but her juxtaposition to Trump also placed in front of a wet feces turbine.

Trump and Maple's daughter Tiffany looks great. Good for her. I hope for the best for her, and not some sort of Paris Hilton misbehavior nonsense.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:51am PT
Here you go gf; it's a very interesting read .................

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/nyregion/donald-trump-atlantic-city.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:56am PT
I'll get to the Atlantic City story in a minute, but this just in:


Shooting at Orlando Gay Nightclub Kills About 20, Police Say

I dare you, I double-dog dare you, to say that Trump's hateful rhetoric had NOTHING to do with this.

I dare you.


A leader, like a president, by DEFINITION influences other people and affects how they behave. That's why they call that person a LEADER. He leads the other people in a direction that he believes to be the best path for the group.


Trump believes the best path is, "I'd like to punch him in the mouth" and, "Oh, poor guy, you should see this guy" (shakes spasmodically in a theatrical fashion).



The reason that the white supremacists and other bigots love Trump is because his vision is for a sanitized society where only the "good" people are allowed to live.

God is not going to be able to help you if that group ever decides that your choice of clothing (or diet) no longer conforms to what they deem to be good.





EDIT:

If I was a better mathematician (even Isaac Newton couldn't do it) I would decode the infamous DCLXVI Number Of The Beast, and it would probably come up TRUMP.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:06am PT
I dare you, I double-dog dare you, to say that Trump's hateful rhetoric had NOTHING to do with this.

I dare you.

Trump's hateful rhetoric had nothing to do with this.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:11am PT
Trump had nothing to do with this.

Fair enough. Hate doesn't need Trump to perpetuate itself.



But, Trump's hate-filled rhetoric is antagonistic to acceptance.

And, when he opens his big mouth to spew hatred, it encourages other, lesser-minded people to think that they should engage in short-minded evil actions.


REMEMBER: It was at Trump rallies that the first incidents of violence against The Others reared its ugly, degenerate head.

The violence in San Jose was a reaction to the violence at earlier Trump rallies. Violence and retribution feeds off earlier incidents, in a (my Latin fails me here, but it is analogous to quid per quo).

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:16am PT
Oh yeah Tom. Trump is just ruining your life. Just because he's running for President.

Good grief man, put your tampon back in and face the day.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:24am PT
Please refrain from ad hominem attacks against other people posting here.


When you attack me personally, and suggest that my hemorrhoids are bleeding profusely enough to require multiple, continual insertions of anal tampons, your credibility wanes.


Noam Sane?

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:35am PT
Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.




Let's play as adults, and not as children.


Noam Sane?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:47am PT
Oh yeah Tom. Trump is just ruining your life. Just because he's running for President.

Good grief man, put your tampon back in and face the day.


lol! can't we all just get along..
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:50am PT
re: Orlando mass shooting

I dare you, I double-dog dare you, to say that Trump's hateful rhetoric had NOTHING to do with this.

This is nonsense.

Please don't go overboard and then look as foolish as those on the extreme right.

Take a break. Sheesh.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:55am PT
According to Glenn Beck

Erik Erikksonn is planning with the GOP to dump Trump at the convention

and with the blessing of Ted Cruz, install Scott Walker as the GOP presidential nominee

all the big money hates Trump, and they need a GOP establishment Koch tool to be their man to fund, someone that can beat Hillary!

And if Ted Cruz goes along with it, he will be the GOP savior, and we will anoint him the leader of the Senate

It could happen
and then someone owes me $10

you got to listen to the other side to hear what their saying, it's pure crazy talk 24/7
no wonder Klimmer is so mixed up, he actually believes the sh#t the say
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:59am PT
Man I'm glad invested in4 tons of unpopped popcorn kernels. This shitshow of idiots lining up is getting good.
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:00am PT
The shooting by Omar Mir Seddique Mateen had killed at least 50 at the Orlando gay club. And someone is trying to blame Trump? Haha....No, this actually shows Trump has a point. Let me bet some ties to radical Islamists are going to pop up soon...he's been on the feds' radar for 3 years, this must be for his love of gardening.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:01am PT
A leader, like a president, by DEFINITION influences other people and affects how they behave. That's why they call that person a LEADER. He leads the other people in a direction that he believes to be the best path for the group.



Back in 1993, Clinton agitated for some sort of "tough on crime" program. As a result, the local, hill-billy cops became emboldened to arrest people, whilly-nilly, for the most absurd and tenuous reasons.


The vocalizations of a leader, or even a potential leader, has a marked effect on how people behave. When Trump declares war on illegal aliens, that rhetoric naturally spills over (trickle-down effect) into incidents of similar non-acceptance.

The cause and effect here may not be entirely, 100% connectable. But, certainly, Trump has called for non-tolerance, and that hateful rhetoric can only have a deleterious affect on our society.


Dood's insane.


Noam Sane?

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:18am PT
The shooting by Omar Mir Seddique Mateen had killed at least 50 at the Orlando gay club. And someone is trying to blame Trump? Haha....No, this actually shows Trump has a point. Let me bet some ties to radical Islamists are going to pop up soon...he's been on the feds' radar for 3 years, this must be for his love of gardening.


As Tom already tried, the MSM will try to pin this on Trump's rhetoric. That would be stupid, of course.

Just another hate-filled Muslim who hates gays. Where did his hate of gays come from? Trump? Or his local Imam?

Islam and homosexuality is the story here. Not Donald Trump.
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:21am PT
And let me guess...everyone in that nightclub must have been armed... took 50, awfully long, for someone to draw and stop him. It could have been just 1 or 2.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:26am PT
someone is trying to blame Trump?

Of course trump is not directly responsible, but his (and the general tone of [un]American xtian conservatives) rhetoric stokes the fire, creating more validation of radical islamists' claim that we are conducting our own jihad against islam.

The shooter was an american citizen by birth, so he and thousands of other US muslims can't be deported. Would he have tried to deport Ali?

Like it or not, the problem is more intractable than some simple-minded xenophobic action like deporting all muslims can remedy.

vvvvvv Bushes & Co. They're the ones who whacked the hornet's nest
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:28am PT
Who did you guys blame this sh#t on before Trump came along?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:31am PT
Trump has brain damage (chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE) caused by his days as a champion football player, when he was incarcerated at a private military school reformatory.



The condition manifests as dementia, or declining mental ability. Patients with CTE/DP may be prone to inappropriate or explosive behavior and may display pathological jealousy or paranoia. They may exhibit other symptoms of dementia, such as memory loss, aggression, confusion and hallucinatory delusions. Again, the symptoms generally manifest only years or many decades after the trauma, and the encephalopathy can only be definitively diagnosed postmortem, during an autopsy. Odd, bizarre, anti-social and other dysfunctional behavior is sometimes the only symptom a person will exhibit.


It is clear that Donald Trump has some of these CTE symptoms, and he has the athletic history to account for them. Trump was exiled by his father to an expensive, private military school reformatory when he was thirteen, and Trump redirected his seething, raging indignity of the injustice at his fellow cadet inmates and any other children he could attack, with impunity, on the football field. His large physical size, even bigger ego, intense hatred and a rabid, win-at-all-costs enthusiasm for gridiron brutality compelled his teammates to warily keep their distance, and to fearfully crown him Team Captain.






Charles Whitman was a decorated ex-Marine, and architectural engineering student at the University of Texas in 1966. Without warning or any prior indications of encephalopathy, he murdered his mother and his wife, then he disguised himself as a maintenance worker to gain access to the top of a 28-story clock tower. He had brought a footlocker containing a small arsenal of firearms to the observation deck with him, and he proceeded to randomly shoot at people. Fourteen were killed and 32 were injured, before police were able to shoot and kill him. They found a note that Whitman had left:



I do not quite understand what it is that compels me to type this letter. Perhaps it is to leave some vague reason for the actions I have recently performed. I do not really understand myself these days. I am supposed to be an average reasonable and intelligent young man. However, lately (I cannot recall when it started) I have been a victim of many unusual and irrational thoughts ...... Maybe research can prevent further tragedies of this type.



Charles Whitman was a champion football player in high school, same as Trump.






Don't vote your conscience.

Vote your intelligence.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:35am PT
Who did you guys blame this sh#t on before Trump came along?


David Duke, Tom Metzger, George Wallace, Heinrich Himmler and Adolf Hitler.

Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:37am PT
Who did you guys blame this sh#t on before Trump came along?

mass murder?

you mean like Sandy Hook elementary school

or the Aurora movie theater murders

Oklahoma City Federal Building Bombing

disturbed white culture christians?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:43am PT
I watched one of Klimmer's videos

Oh MY GOD
it is such BS
The infowars folks are complete loons

it's all flashing images of atrocities with some speaker saying that these truths will set you free and other crazy talk

Then it's like "We are the Champions" songs with glorious images of peace and tranquility, which it will be after Trump is elected

Truly frightening propaganda prepackaged for the insanely gullible
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:44am PT
Who did you guys blame this sh#t on before Trump came along?

THE NRA

They made it so any loon can get a gun
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:44am PT
It seems like the father of Omar Mateen is running for office in Afghanistan?? True multiculturalistm...

Seddique Mateen
Active Port Saint Lucie, FL — Director for Provisional Government of Afghanistan, Corporation
Listed connection is Duran Jirge

Announcement for him running for President of Afghanistan, from Duran Jirga...what the hell?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7keciXgEfM


Florida incorporation papers indicate that a Seddique Mateen heads a non-profit organization, The Durand Jirga, Inc. The non-profit was formed in 2010 and is registered at the Port St. Lucie, Florida address where both the father and Omar Mateen appear to reside.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:47am PT
I was way off
now that more info has come out
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:50am PT
Los Angeles Times stated his father is running "for office" in Afghanistan, not mentioning which office. Duran Jirga Inc connection and the youtube videos show he's running for "President of Afghanistan". Here's the full channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5MBQ9UhS01swTh860m_tvQ

Multicultural paradise....I wonder if his Afghanistan-born father is a US citizen; naturalized US citizens can not take government positions in other countries, such would nullify their US citizenship. This "running for office" could have been the reason the son was on FBI watch list for years...
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:56am PT
his father said it was not religiously motivated

even if it was not as his father says a very large part of America will immediately conclude it was an act of radical Islamic terror because the kid's name is Arabic

IF I was a Muslim in America I would do everything I can to not look like one
just asking to get the hell beat of you
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:57am PT
Then it's like "We are the Champions" song


Brian May, the guitarist who ripped up those memorable riffs, told Trump to stop using his music. Earlier, the Rolling Stones told Trump to SOD OFF and stop using their music.


This is a long-standing, recurring theme with the Republican Party. They illegally violate copyright laws, and use popular music to enrich their rallies and public appearances.

Then, the musicians come out, forcefully and angry, and tell them to stop using their music.

Often, the cease-and-desist letters contains language similar to, "I hate you, and I hate what you stand for. Stop using my music to further your agenda."




Rolling Stone had an online article about this, and there was only one or two Democrats, versus twenty or thirty Republicans, that had been rebuked by musicians for nefariously appropriating their music for use at their campaign rallies.


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-politicians-keep-using-songs-without-artists-permission-20150709


Again, it is overwhelmingly the Republicans, and not the Democrats, who illegally use copyrighted music for their own personal gain.

This plays right alongside corporate deregulation, reduction of taxes for the wealthy, and other socially predatory behaviors.








Ironically, Ted Nugent is a right-wing kind of guy who loves Trump, but you don't hear Trump blasting THIS on the campaign trail, now do you:


[Click to View YouTube Video]

kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:00am PT
Naturalized citizen father of domestic terrorist running for President of Afghanistan....Nice. Have a feeling some FBI agents are about to lose their jobs. Will take them a lot of effort to cover up the scandal.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:04am PT
so katz

what do you make of the gay club mass murder?

the guy has an Arab name, could well be Muslim

think this is a act of radical Islamic terror fueled by the Koran's hate words on gays?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:05am PT
IF I was a Muslim in America I would do everything I can to not look like one
just asking to get the hell beat of you


I know, huh, Muslims are getting beat-down everywhere! Maybe we should tell patrons of clubs not to congregate either, just waiting to get gunned-down.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:06am PT
So Norton if it does end up pointing to Islamic radicalization, will you acknowledge this and call it what it is or will you ignore it and run silent on the subject? like many of our fellow libs are want to do for partisan political reasons.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:11am PT
Fructose,

you damn right I will call it an act of radical Islamic terror

as I would expect anyone else to do so if this is what is determined
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:13am PT
Bluering is right

hate crimes against Muslims in America have tripled

why a Muslim would go out in public without trying to conceal anything about them that looks Arabic or Muslim is asking for trouble IMO
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:14am PT
Yeah, he got his ideas from walking in the park, listening to the birds...not from his family. No need for political correctness BS here, "innocent kid just decided to shoot out a gay club".

Good job, FBI. They knew damn well what was brewing there.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:15am PT
think this is a act of radical Islamic terror fueled by the Koran's hate words on gays?

I'll answer.

Yeah, I think this is a young male likely disenfranchised, estranged, uneducated (by my standards), frustrated, disaffected, etc.. who took up a cause which such young males are want to do... in this case radical Islam... to give purpose to his life.

Islamism and Islamic scripture (Quran) make this easy.

So? Am I now in Trump's camp. Limbaugh's camp?

You think it's not (unfairly) biased to give fundamentalist Muslims a pass on their doctrines and yet hold fundamentalist Christians feet to the fire for theirs (eg, 6,000 year old Earth, Creation Museum in Ky, etc)?

Fructose,

you damn right I will call it an act of radical Islamic terror

Good to know. :)


We've got to get the partisan politicization (bet Right and Left, Rep and Dem) re Islamism / jihadism also re: criticism of Islamic doctrine/ dogma out of the process.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:19am PT
Dear WVB,

That photo depicts the Motor City Madman at the zenith of his madness.

He is a Trump-fellating crankloon, and not a Hillary muffy-munching crankloon.



His visage has confused you, because the Republicans, by definition, are confused. The Madman sings the praises of libertine degeneracy, but then he extols the virtues of a chastity-belted zombie named Reagan. The Motor City Madman is just that: mad, crazy, insane. He has severe internal mental conflicts that he has been able to monetize by exhibiting bizarre and extreme behavioral nadirs on the public stage.

The Elephant Man wishes he could have done so well.



Just so you know.


Love, Tom.

Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:21am PT
Fvck radical Islam


So sick of their ignorant crap
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:23am PT
This may or may not play into trump's hands.
I think this was more of an attack against gays. I mean why didn't he just go out and randomly shoot people on the street? He picked a specific target.

btw, thanks NRA
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:30am PT
The gay people are going to like me
Drumpf

Assuming anything at this point is kinda stupid. Though is dad is on record now stating that the killer was very upset after watching two men kiss. Not too hard to put those two pieces together.
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:30am PT
Omar Mateen is a registered Democrat, speaking of "NRA"
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:41am PT
I mean why didn't he just go out and randomly shoot people on the street? He picked a specific target.


Like, the way Trump picked a specific target, when he picked out Mexicans as the illegal alien scourge that is destroying America?

Mexican immigration to the United States is declining. Asian immigration is increasing, and it is a bigger issue because the Chinese government has already demonstrated a propensity for industrial espionage and internet disruption. Trump is full of sh#t, to put it mildly and politely.



Trump is a rabble-rouser, and Trump's xenophobic and bigoted rhetoric has roused the rabble. Before, it was physical assaults at his campaign rallies. This time, the roused rabble was a homophobic gunman.


Don't delude yourself. When Trump talks, people listen. And when Trump says, Get rid of the different people, low-intelligence idiots take action.

The same thing happened when Carly Fiorina promulgated a contrived and fraudulent video tape purporting to show "baby parts" being sold by a Planned Parenthood clinic. A semi-sentient idiot then started shooting people at a clinic, and later told the police, "No more baby parts".



The tone, and not the specific message is what sub-IQ people connect with. Trump knows this. This is how he has gained so much traction in his campaign, while spewing complete nonsense and ridiculous lies. It is the tone, and not the specifics that are inciting his followers to action.


Trump is a dangerous person, because he has learned how to gain the adoration of the mindless mob, and he has been able to steer them in the same way that a rancher steers a herd of cattle into a slaughterhouse feedlot.

The same concerns about Julius Caesar led to his assassination 2000 years ago.

Look it up.


Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:43am PT
Omar Mateen had a license as a security officer and a Florida concealed carry permit.

http://www.redstate.com/jaycaruso/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-concealed-carry-license-security-license-florida/
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:44am PT
Hate is at the core and no religion and followers are immune to it.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:51am PT
QUACK!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:52am PT
As if the knuckleheads of this country need another reason to hate Muslims.


FVck radical Islam and the Saudi as#@&%es that are spreading it, but not all Muslims. That's the part that the ignorant can't grasp.



[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:52am PT
Tom posted:

Don't delude yourself. When Trump talks, people listen. And when Trump says, Get rid of the different people low-intelligence idiots take action.


This contention has been proved very accurate


Donald Trump and the Spike in Anti-Muslim Hate Crimes in the U.S.

Donald Trump’s Anti-Muslim Rhetoric Caused 19 Acts of Domestic Terrorism Last Week

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/12/15/donald-trumps-anti-muslim-rhetoric-caused-19-acts-domestic-terrorism-week.html

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/05/09/donald_trump_and_the_rise_of_anti_muslim_hate_crimes.html
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 10:31am PT
WE smart people come to Super Topo for our information...


The best of the best divine the True Wizdumb, and the post it here, non-stop.




Trump defrauded the Scottish Parliament into allowing a rare, protected coastal wetland and its many endangered species to be bulldozed into oblivion.

Trump called his envirocide THE WORLD'S GREATEST GOLF COURSE.



nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 12, 2016 - 10:44am PT
well it is true that Dad heard about the Orlando shooting on the Taco first. Nature with the breaking news for pops.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 10:49am PT
Donald Trump is a sick little man.

He insults everyone and loves to go after certain groups of people.

He has been warned, and admonished by the RNC.

And yet he continues on, ignorantly thinking he is invincible.

There won't be any more warnings from them.

If he does not change very quickly any support he has will be gone.

And he will get what he seems to want, a humiliating and lasting personal loss.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:08am PT
As if the knuckleheads of this country need another reason to hate Muslims.


The knuckleheads have never needed a reason.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:14am PT
Trump is taking this as an opportunity to take credit for "being right on Islamic terror."

Keep on keepin it classy....
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:16am PT
Sometimes youtube is worth a thousand posts...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ

'Death is the sentence for homosexuals. Let's get rid of them now.'

Note the city. Note the time.

...

"You want Trump to lose? Me too. Ask Democrats to acknowledge the issue of Islamic extremism and support liberal voices in the Muslim world."

-Faisal Saeed AlMutar, secular reformist Muslim
c wilmot

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:16am PT
you deny islamic terror is a problem?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:26am PT
If he does not change very quickly any support he has will be gone.

Among some rational republicans, true.

Among most of the 17 million people that voted for him in the primary, not true. He has been spewing exactly the kind of hate, anger and fear they're craving to hear.

"OMG, someone finally sees as I see, and thinks as I think!! He IS BRILLIANT!!" Just look at the kind of holy love he's getting from Klimmer, supposedly an educated person.


Edit for wilmot: I don't think there is anyone who denies that Islamic Terror is a problem. Just upthread I said FVCK radical Islam, the Saudi azzholes that spread it, and FVCK ISIS. I will add FVCK Sunni Wahabism. This is coming from a guy who worked and lived in KSA for four years. That is a far cry from hating all Muslims though. And THAT is what Trump is selling to the uneducated.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:32am PT
HRC...
Woke up to hear the devastating news from FL. As we wait for more information, my thoughts are with those affected by this horrific act. -H

Sam Harris to HRC...
Speak honestly about the true cause of this savagery, or you risk letting ISIS pick our next President.



Politically,

"I totally agree. The fact that this happened is going to majorly help Trump if she doesn't handle it right." -mm

,,,

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:39am PT
As if there can't be more than one cause in the mix...

1) "Guns. The true cause is Guns. Hate is in every country. This only happens regularly in the US of A."

(2 "True cause is Islam. You have blood on your hands for being an apologist."
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:39am PT
HFCS!!!!


and yes, the false dichotomy is a fallacy many suffer from. people are f*#king stoooopid (do I sound like a smoking duck?)
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:42am PT
Horrific incident in Orlando, Florida. Praying for all the victims & their families. When will this stop? When will we get tough, smart & vigilant?

Donald Trump
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:44am PT
(2 "True cause is Islam. You have blood on your hands for being an apologist."

Apologist? No.

Nature, do you believe this?

Werner, what are your thoughts on Islam in general, and what are your thoughts on LGBT?


I am no fan of religion, and in general, I say Fvck religion altogether. But to lump wahabism or radical Islam with all Muslims is wrong.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:46am PT
Survival, I appreciate your speaking up about fundamentalist Islam and its doctrines and Islamism. But this...

I don't think there is anyone who denies that Islamic Terror is a problem.

C'mon!!!!

Werner, what are your thoughts on Islam in general,

lol

Eighth graders, what are your thoughts on Islam in general?

.....

"to lump wahabism or radical Islam with all Muslims is wrong."

and nobody but Trump and gang and rightwing extremists do this.
nuance based on being informed is required here
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:54am PT
C'mon!!!!

Who, specifically, denies that Islamic terror is a problem?

HFCS, I know that you think religion in general is one of the roots of the problem, and I would agree. But would you say that all Muslims must be hated, or all religion must be hated? Is putting all religious people to death the compassionate thing to do?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:57am PT
But would you say that all Muslims must be hated... Is putting all religious people to death the compassionate thing to do? -Survival

Is this REALLY where we're at - you and me - in the conversation?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:58am PT
No, not at all. I'm just asking what your suggested solution is. We obviously can't exterminate all religious people.


Edit: My suggestion (not that it would ever be implemented) is that Muslims take back their own religion. KSA needs to get a grip on fundamentalism (Sunni Funds are just as dangerous, or more, than Shia Funds these days) Reject Wahabism in KSA, Reject ISIS loudly by Muslims around the world. Reject Imams in American mosques who are preaching hate, etc.

Too much to ask? probably.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 11:59am PT
No, not at all. I'm just asking

So why would you even make such a statement? or ask such a barbaric question?

Your two posts and their respective questions are wildly different.

...

what your suggested solution is.

the problem is exceedingly complex. I'm sure you realize this.
The public far and wide should be able to discuss possible solutions without name-calling and ad hominem.

Obviously one start is to (begin to) distinguish between (1) criticism of Islamic dogma and (2) denigrating Muslims.

Obviously trying to have a discussin about these complex subjects on a public forum of rockclimbers brings with it its own complexities incl misunderstandings as well.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:03pm PT
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/12/11913912/man-with-weapons-and-plans-to-go-to-la-pride-arrested-hours-after-orlando-shooting
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:04pm PT
What is wildly different? And why did you cut off half my question?

***Yes, complexity is barely scratching the surface. And that's why I see Trump as dangerous as anyone out there.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
So let's agree. We can't let Trump anywhere near the White House. His only public platform should be Twitter at most.

Yes, education is key. If not the keystone solution to all this.

....

HFCS, I know that you think religion in general is one of the roots of the problem...

btw, note if Abrahamic religion (esp C and I) were more like Buddhism or Jainism it wouldn't be one of these roots, not at all.

The whole shebang in its originial trad form is based on a warrior god, a warring theology, warring and subjugation. That makes it one of the roots.

If America were only half as theologically illiterate as it is scientifically illiterate (but thank goodness this is quickly changing now) it would get this immediately.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:10pm PT
HFCS, +1
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
Education is the answer...

Locker

+ 100,000,000
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
(CNN)

The gunman who killed 50 people at an Orlando nightclub pledged allegiance to ISIS and mentioned the Boston bombing in a 911 call, according to a U.S. official.

Suspect Omar Mateen made the call more than 20 minutes into the attack, a law enforcement official said.

In the past, the FBI investigated Mateen for possibly having ties or being a sympathizer to Islamic extremism, according to a law enforcement officials and a U.S. official.
There were two cases opened on Mateen in the past, the law enforcement official told CNN.
The investigations didn't find evidence to charge him with anything, the officials said.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
The investigations didn't find evidence to charge him with anything, the officials said.

and that IS one of the very real problems in trying to stop, in advance, terror

anyone, anyone, can buy a assault weapon advertised in any newspaper in the country without any background check required

so forget "gun control", even right after Sandy Hook congress failed to even require that

bottom line: government agencies such as Homeland Security, FBI, CIA are given billions and billion of tax dollars to do the best they can to sniff out and try to prevent acts of terror

they do catch some people ahead of time but with some 350 million people in America the fact is maybe we should be grateful that such mass murders do not happen multiple times every day

maybe that is our future, some say we can't do anything about it, it is the "price" for living in a free America with total access to firearms so just deal with it privately
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:26pm PT

Jun 12, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
(CNN)


In the past, the FBI investigated Mateen for possibly having ties or being a sympathizer to Islamic extremism, according to a law enforcement officials and a U.S. official.
There were two cases opened on Mateen in the past, the law enforcement official told CNN.
The investigations didn't find evidence to charge him with anything, the officials said.

And he got to keep his concealed carry permit?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
And he got to keep his concealed carry permit?

absolutely, he had not been charged with anything, same rights as you and I to carry
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
Stupid Radical Islamic Terrorist

I hate those guys
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:41pm PT
however, the more devout one gets in the faith,

The more one becomes like you?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
Klimmer, go away.

Here's Obama. Not one mention of the 800 lb gorilla in the room. Not one mention.
Not one word, even so much as an adjective...

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37RFM9HdreI


If somehow the upcoming election is lost to Trump, this failure to accurately name a core component of this "terrorism" (just as the Right does) will be a factor in the mix.


...

Stupid Radical Islamic Terrorist

I hate those guys

Thank you, Craig.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
Looks like the cops are on the job here!

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:46pm PT
Nature, do you believe this?

no I was +1-ing his image. I think you know by now you and I see pretty much eye-to-eye on most of this stuff. Same goes with HFCS

Until parents stop brainwashing their children with ridiculous LIES, it will continue...

dad, don't get me started! ;-)



Stupid Radical Islamic Terrorist

I hate those guys

WTF with the assuming here? how about


Stupid Radical [insert your choice of religion and their version of their imaginary friend] Terrorist

I hate those guys


seriously... Islam has no corner of the market in hating gay people. See: westboro baptist church


His dad is on record as stating he became very upset when he saw two men kissing.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
seriously... Islam has no corner of the market in hating gay people. See: westboro baptist church

C'mon!

Of course WBC does (eg, "hating gay people"). But so does radical islamic ideology.

Call it out. You're a lib, why don't you do this? Do you have any idea how many secular and liberal Muslims in the ME are under the thumb of fundamentalist Islamic culture and doctrine? who could use our help? instead of our (largely liberal) silence?

get real (modern, progressive, updated) on this issue. please!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_left
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
Call it out. You're a lib, why don't you do this?

Fructose....

on a number of occasions you have maintained that "liberals" seem to have a problem with calling out radical islam

I know a hell of a lot of fellow liberals and every one of them has no problem whatsoever with that

where do you get that idea from, what people, did a couple of prominent libs in the media cycles refuse to call out radical Islam, I honestly then must have missed that and I read damn near everything he said modestly

but seriously? who are these libs you infer the rest of us libs from?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
Craig, I had to turn the f*#king tube off (dad/locker taught me well) as I was ready to vomit. checked and seeing what you are saying. still, radical islam has no corner on the market for hate.


and i have no problem calling out radical islam. but f*#k those that will point to radical islam while ignoring their form of religion and the radicals amongst them.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
on a number of occasions you have maintained that "liberals" seem to have a problem with calling out radical islam...

Are you serious?

I just posted (last page) Obama's 5 minute response. Zero mention of "islamic" influence even as adjective (e.g. radical islamic terrorism, islamic extremism, Islamic jihadism, jihadist terrorism, etc)

Why don't you see/sense this? You must perceive that Republicans talk about Islamic this or Islamic that a magnitude more than Dems. So that's another way of looking at it.

Zero mention.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
and i have no problem calling out radical islam. but f*#k those that will point to radical islam while ignoring their form of religion and the radicals amongst them.

Really? Do we really need to do this? I'm supposed to defend my faith because another Muzzie listened to his Imam?

I guess you feel a need to equivocate my faith/your faith/whatever for another brainwashed child of Islam?

Maybe more Muslims should speak out in favor of gay rights. That would be a start, right?

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:13pm PT

Jun 12, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
And he got to keep his concealed carry permit?

absolutely, he had not been charged with anything, same rights as you and I to carry

Ah, yes. Second amendment. The threshold For concealed Carry is you can't be convicted of a felony.
( not what Florida handgun law says, btw)



No worries, then.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:14pm PT
Wait, another Chrissie thinks they're better than a Muzzie?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
Wait, another Chrissie thinks they're better than a Muzzie?


Better than that one? Probably. But hey, who am I to judge? I just try to stagger through life living as righteously as I can.

(it's not that hard, really)

EDIT:
I just try to stagger through life living as righteously as I can.

(it's not that hard, really)

This would be a fascinating discussion, the more I ponder it. Is living a "righteous life" as described by Abrahamic texts, really that hard? And what is that?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
President Obama and Hillary R. Clinton will not call out Radical Islamic Terrorism. They will not use those words, but that's exactly what it is. Why is that?

He just said it is "appropriately being investigated as a terrorist incident by the FBI."

Isn't that the way it's supposed to work?


Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
From Politifact

Presidents and Secretaries of State have to be much more careful in their selection of words than others, they are charged with maintaining responsible communication with other countries leaders, and the nuances of "islam" and "radical Islam" mean quite different things to Muslim leaders in the middle east.




"They try to portray themselves as religious leaders — holy warriors in defense of Islam," Obama said at the close of a summit on violent extremism Feb. 22. "That’s why ISIL presumes to declare itself the ‘Islamic State.’ And they propagate the notion that America — and the West, generally — is at war with Islam."

Obama went on to say "we are not at war with Islam. We are at war with people who have perverted Islam."

This wording isn’t all that different from former President George W. Bush’s language following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and at the onset of the war in Afghanistan.

"This great nation of many religions understands, our war is not against Islam, or against faith practiced by the Muslim people. Our war is a war against evil," Bush said in January 2002.

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton prefers the term "radical jihadists," saying the GOP’s preferred phrasing "sounds like we are declaring war against a religion."

d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
Arc on the moon guy thinks its opinion matters.

bluetard quotes itself in the same post.

The thread that keeps on giving.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
Norton I totally get that, I almost mentioned it myself.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4nIfLGqd9s

Oops, that wasn't the video I thought, but a good one nonetheless.
In another video, Fareed concedes that Obama as a head of state and politician has to treat the subject via language differently than others (eg, academicians, forum posters, electorates).

This subject like politics makes strange bedfellows. :)
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
Trump is not special to condemm radical Islam, Cosmic.

I am not aware of anyone who does not other than radical Islam.

What Trump gets so very wrong is that his brain does not understand
that radical Islam makes up a very small number of the 1.6 billion other
and peaceful followers of the religion of Islam
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
From Politifact

Presidents and Secretaries of State have to be much more careful in their selection of words than others, they are charged with maintaining responsible communication with other countries leaders, and the nuances of "islam" and "radical Islam" mean quite different things to Muslim leaders in the middle east.

This is the mindset that will continue to get innocents killed.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
Found it.

Exactly this issue has been discussed by Anderson Cooper of CNN with Muslim reformist
(and former Islamist) Maajid Nawaz and Fareed Zakaria.

http://www.snappytv.com/tc/484505

I wish it were on youtube, couldn't find it.

...

Fareed Zakaria: The wording does matter, actually, in two senses. If you're a scholar, if you are trying to accurately present the phenomenon we're dealing with, of course it is Islamic extremism.

But the president of the United States is not a scholar. He's not trying to get this right in terms of the facts. He's a political leader. He's trying to ask, what is the most constructive way I can frame this so that I bring, you know, I attach myself to a large body of Muslims in countries like Indonesia, 300 million who are law abiding and non terrorists and don't, you know, don't demean them and their faith and ISIL, the extremists.

So I'm not going to play their game and call them Islamic leaders. I'm going to describe that the way I want to. They're terrorists. You know, in other words, if you're a scholar looking from the outside, you'd say, yes. You now, most of this violence is coming out of the world of Islam. So it's fair to call it Islamic extremism. The president is saying, I'm not going to legitimize them by calling them Islamic in any way.

So in a sense, both are right. The president is being a political leader. He's not trying to get at the factual accuracy here.

Anderson Cooper: Maajid, what do you make of that? Because the critics of the president's say, well look, unless you understand the enemy you're fighting, unless you call it what it is, unless, you know, you're able to fight this a war of ideas as much as a military conflict, you're not going to be able to truly defeat this enemy.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1502/18/acd.01.html
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
Cheesy Donald isn't going to do anything. One, he's not going to be elected. Two, even if he was, he's not going to stop a naturalborn, U.S. citizen from buying a legal semi-automatic rifle and handgun, and then committing mass murder with those weapons.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
^ Bingo!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
Wait, you mean Captain Blowhard won't be able to stop homegrown lone wolf as#@&%es, even after the NRA endorsed him?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
Nope. The NRA thinks every citizen , even somebody with known ties to isis, has a second amendment right to pack heat.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
Interesting that this recent mass slaughter is a political topic. I've been listening to the talkers all day on/off.

The MSM is a big part of the problem. Their political correctness and their reluctance to call something what it is is telling. Their go-to topic was, "this brings up the a*#ault-rifle debate again". Really? Because they brought it up?

They are misleading us. The real topic is radical Islam. They will not bring themselves to confront it. And it will continue.

And many of you bury your heads as well for fear of being calling something. And that is part of the game. They use that to bully you into submission.

"you're a racist", "you're a sexist", and on and on.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:36pm PT
So has Werner realized that he's one of the 6 people that he's always bagging on?


Blue, MSM is a "big" part of the problem? Since when? If only they would call it radical Islam the problem would go away!!

Maybe you should read a little more history bro...


FVck Trump.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:38pm PT
Stoopor topo poltards Sunday meltdown in action .......


Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:41pm PT
They are misleading us. The real topic is radical Islam. They will not bring themselves to confront it. And it will continue.


They are misleading us
The real topic is radical Islam

And the real topic is radical anybody and that we have more guns than people. And as long as we will not bring ourselves confront it, it will continue.
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
So, Omar Mateen had threatened coworkers with using his supposed ISIS terrorist buddies to hurt them....then, he had an acquaintance who went on to become a suicide bomber...and FBI knew that all along and even questioned him about it but backed out...Nice job.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
You forgot he got to keep his concealed carry permit. It's his second amendment right.
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
"And the real topic is radical anybody and that we have more guns than people"

No, Kalifornistan for sure doesn't have nearly enough guns for it's "people" to protect themselves from criminal thug animals, in many parts.
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
"You forgot he got to keep his concealed carry permit. It's his second amendment right."

His victims fell to liberal brainwash that police will protect them, and that they don't need guns or permits to carry such, it seems like.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:50pm PT
This only happens regularly in the US of A.


And Israel, Turkey, Iraq, Pakistan and a half dozen nations in Africa.

Radical Islam is an international phenomenon, and has been for a long time.




The first U.S. President to ask Congress for funds to combat radical Islamic terrorism was . . . . . . . . .















































































. . . . . . . . . Thomas Jefferson.


The United States' 1801 invasion of Tripoli is still remembered in the Marine Corps' hymn.



And, long before that, Islamic fundamentalists were a prime reason that the Pope ordered Europeans to commence various military campaigns in the Middle East, known today as The Crusades.



Islam has had a radical approach to non-believers from the outset. The Koran requires that true believers must capture and plunder infidels, and if they don't convert, to kill them.

Today, 99+% of Muslims don't adhere to this fundamental interpretation of Islamic scripture.


Similarly, 99+% of Christian husbands don't take the Bible literally, and beat their wives into submission.

The Spanish Inquisition was conducted in the name of radical Christianity. The wholesale enslavement and slaughter of native Americans on two continents was done in the name of Christianity.



Scientology is a modern, allegedly progressive and enlightened religion that very specifically calls for the attack and destruction of "suppressive persons" (i.e., former members, non-believers, critics and detractors).




Religious fanaticism is the gift that keeps on giving.




kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
I wonder if it's London or Paris that will be the capital of radical Islam in 20 years
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:00pm PT
Blue, MSM is a "big" part of the problem? Since when? If only they would call it radical Islam the problem would go away!!

Maybe you should read a little more history bro...


FVck Trump.

Nice, I'm feeling a bit of misguided rage there. Okay, F*#k Trump. Let us discuss history.

Where would you like to start? Seriously, pick a date. I'll describe the problem to you precisely.

And are others aware and ready for such a lesson? Can you handle the truth? It isn't a pretty one for Islam, just so ya know.

But lets do this...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
OK Blue. 1095
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
Where was the Caliphate in 1095, help me out. What stage? That must have been after the first initial conquest,?

I could Google it, but why pick that date?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
I could Google it, but why pick that date?



Because you asked for a date. And it does have significance. So maybe you're not as well read as you thought..
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
No, not to s specific year. More of a general timeline.

Found this: http://www.scout.com/military/crusades/story/1413048-islam-before-1095

So, the first Crusade is the start of discussion?
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
So, ISIS claimed responsibility for this act already, the guy swore allegiance to ISIS in his 911 call, and prior to that had suicide bomber friends and threatened people with ISIS, and on top of that the father had been running for President of Afghanistan. The guy holds FL security officer license. Absolutely brilliant FBI work. Yep, Trump's point just got more clear.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
FBI knew that all along and even questioned him about it but backed out.


One of the precogs had a dissenting vision, a minority report, that predicted a different future.



It may have been prudent for the FBI to watch him more closely, but legal due process does not (yet) comprise preventing crime by predicting the future.


Certainly, making criminal violent threats should have resulted in his 2nd Amendment rights being revoked right then, and his guns taken from him.

The 2nd Amendment doesn't grant lunatics and emotionally disturbed people the right to keep and bear arms, so that they can attack fellow citizens.


If you incite a riot with an incendiary public speech, the 1st Amendment is not going to keep you out of jail.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
And, long before that, Islamic fundamentalists were a prime reason that the Pope ordered Europeans to commence various military campaigns in the Middle East, known today as The Crusades.



Islam has had a radical approach to non-believers from the outset. The Koran requires that true believers must capture and plunder infidels, and if they don't convert, then to kill them.

Wow. This is a complete perversion of history.

The byzantines ( Christians) massacred the Jews of Jerusalem in the early 600's and they asked for help from Persian and Muslim rulers.

When they took over the city, Jews lived in peace and Christians were permitted pilgrimages. Each time the Christians gained the city, there was a massacre. Each time the Muslims took it over, there was not. And except for a few years during actual sieges, pilgrimages continued.
All over the Muslim World, other religions were left alone if people paid a tax (Jizya), which was roughly comparable to the Tithes, taxes, and dutys Muslims paid.


And one of the first cities that got razed to the ground by Crusaders was Constantinople, by the very Christian radical armies the Pope sent to the holy land.

It seems there was more loot in Christian Constantinople.

When the ottomans took over Constantinople in 1453, the Greek church stayed, and are still there today. ( the Ottoman's greatest ally, btw, was Christian France, which was surrounded by the Holy Roman Empire)


a similar cycle went on in Spain. Other religions were permitted in Muslim Spain. Some of the greatest Jewish scholars lived in Cordoba. Queen Elizabeth claims here descent from Mohammed through the marriage of a Muslim prince of Valencia and a Christian princess.

Within 20 years of the reconquista , all Jews and Muslims in Spain were expelled or killed despite promises of religious tolerance.

Ferdinand and Isabela were radical Religious extremists.


And the popes biggest crusade was the Albigensian crusade against other Christians. That's radicalism.

Let's not even get into how Bloody Mary got her name.
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
Yes, let's just disarm everyone so that only the police is armed. Will be easier to herd the cattle behind the barbwire/into the camps, and put aside all rhetoric about "slave labor" from then on.

kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:36pm PT
Trump is the topic, his platform includes elimination of terrorist threat and protection of gun rights, so do stay on topic rather than spewing insults towards his supporters.


Anti-gun crowd...the only thing that holds you somewhat free is the large number of guns in American homes. If not that, someone would be knocking on your door, telling whom to vote for in the next election, long time ago, as you'd be a helpless, defenseless drop in the pond.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:39pm PT
So, ISIS claimed responsibility for this act already, the guy swore allegiance to ISIS in his 911 call, and prior to that had suicide bomber friends and threatened people with ISIS, and on top of that the father had been running for President of Afghanistan. The guy holds FL security officer license. Absolutely brilliant FBI work. Yep, Trump's point just got more clear.


God bless the 2nd amendment and the NRA. Notice how free brave people with guns keep preventing these slaughters?
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:44pm PT
There were no free people with guns in that club.
People clearly didn't carry, and couldn't defend themselves.

Isn't it clear? What else needs to be said? If they were armed, he wouldn't shoot for long!
Guess what, brainwash that police will protect you doesn't work, ever.
By the time they get on site, you're harmed. Enough anti-gun brainwash.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:47pm PT
God bless the 2nd amendment and the NRA. Notice how free brave people with guns keep preventing these slaughters?


Uh.....no? There have been 998 mass shootings in America since Newtown. How many have been prevented by armed citizens exactly?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:44pm PT
There were no free people with guns in that club.
People clearly didn't carry, and couldn't defend themselves.

Do you expect him to admit he's wrong? Never will.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
I think a lot of people would prefer the freedom to go to clubs and church or wherever unarmed without the expectation of a gunfight.
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
Big city people don't carry--as in most cases they're not allowed by loaw--and think police will protect thema nd that everyone around "ought" to be nice and law-abiding and are ready to bend over for the rest, who're not so good... In Winnemucca NV the shooter run into a wrong crowd--and got stopped. There should be more food for thought for such. Polite society is only the armed society.
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:53pm PT
"I think a lot of people would prefer the freedom to go to clubs and church or wherever unarmed without the expectation of a gunfight."

Yes, and Santa is bringing the gifts too, in that dream world. Guess what if not shot, one can be blown up, hacked, cut, stabbed with hiv-infected blade, bashed on the head with a brick or dozed with acid or plowed with a truck in a public place. There's no wonderful fairytale safe world, it had never been this way.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:54pm PT
Um, fantasy sort of like every other first world country except ours?
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:56pm PT
"I am a US National living in Canada; we have controls on guns. Yet we managed to throw out a right wing prick in the last election without guns."

I hope you're enjoying Canadian home prices :))) Poor Canadians (I mean those who're not privileged). I guess everything has its drawbacks, like the fact that Chinese are buying out Canada right now.
kattz

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 03:57pm PT
"Um, fantasy sort of like every other first world country except ours?"


Yes, because America is the only country that comes close to being "free".
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
In Winnemucca NV the shooter run into a wrong crowd--and got stopped.

Two drunken families feuding in a bar is your argument for concealed carry?


LoL
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
There were no free people with guns in that club.
People clearly didn't carry, and couldn't defend themselves.

We have more guns than anywhere on the planet Earth. When are they going to start?

A Cadillac in every garage, a Howitzer in every driveway?

When are these gun freaks going to realize that their 2nd amendment rights won't stop these nut jobs?

Am I the only one that notices how here in America where we have more guns than anywhere, we also have more mass shootings than anywhere? How the fvck did that happen?

When is the 2nd amendment gonna start protecting the average citizen who doesn't want to pack heat 24 hrs a day? Because all the gun freaks haven't done sh#t to stop these psychos yet.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jun 12, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
Yes, because America is the only country that comes close to being "free".

You are geographically ignorant.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 04:09pm PT
When are these gun freaks going to realize that their 2nd amendment rights won't stop these nut jobs?

What will, in your opinion?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 12, 2016 - 04:28pm PT
More gawdang guns blue, that and racial profiling is the only answer!!

Death to all Muzzies!!
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 12, 2016 - 04:48pm PT
Omar Mateen is a registered Democrat, speaking of "NRA"

what's that have to do with anything?
thanks NRA.

I wonder how klimmer feels about this? I mean there were gays, and lesbians killed.


edit:
Trump is the topic, his platform includes elimination of terrorist threat

so carpet bombing, or nuking someone in the ME will prevent homegrown terrorism?
you are delusional


Anti-gun crowd...the only thing that holds you somewhat free is the large number of guns in American homes. If not that, someone would be knocking on your door, telling whom to vote for in the next election, long time ago, as you'd be a helpless, defenseless drop in the pond.

I've been on this planet for over sixty-two years, and have never owned a gun. I've never felt the need for one. No one has never knocked on my door, and told me how to vote.
you are delusional, and you are showing your ignorance.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 12, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
From the Washington Post:

It was promoted as the chance of a lifetime: Mom-and-pop investors could buy shares in celebrity businessman Donald Trump’s first public company, Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts.

Their investments were quickly depleted. The company known by Trump’s initials, DJT, crumbled into a penny stock and filed for bankruptcy after less than a decade, costing shareholders millions of dollars, even as other casino companies soared.
In its short life, Trump the company greatly enriched Trump the businessman, paying to have his personal jet piloted and buying heaps of Trump-brand merchandise. Despite losing money every year under Trump’s leadership, the company paid Trump handsomely, including a $5 million bonus in the year the company’s stock plummeted 70 percent.

Many of those who lost money were Main Street shareholders who believed in the Trump brand, such as Sebastian Pignatello, a retired private investor in Queens. By the time of the 2004 bankruptcy, Pignatello’s 150,000 shares were worth pennies on the dollar.

“He had been pillaging the company all along,” said Pignatello, who joined shareholders in a lawsuit against Trump that has since been settled. “Even his business allies, they were all fair game. He has no qualms about screwing anybody. That’s what he does.”

Trump’s bid for the White House relies heavily on his ability to sell himself as a master businessman, a standout performer in real estate and reality TV.

But interviews with former shareholders and analysts as well as years of financial filings reveal a striking characteristic of his business record: Even when his endeavors failed and other people lost money, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee found a way to make money for himself, to market his Trump-branded products and to pay for his expensive lifestyle.

Trump was the chairman of Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts in Atlantic City from 1995 to 2009, his only outing as the head of a major public company. During that time, the company lost more than $1 billion, financial records show. He also was chief executive from 2000 to 2005, during which time share prices plunged from a high of $35 to as low as 17 cents.

Trump received more than $44 million in salary, bonuses and other compensation during his time at the company, filings show. He also benefited from tens of millions of dollars more in special deals, advisory fees and “service agreements” he negotiated with his company.

Full article here: http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/as-its-stock-collapsed-trump%e2%80%99s-firm-gave-him-huge-bonuses-and-paid-for-his-jet/ar-AAgWORF?li=BBnbfcN

And this is the man a bunch of people want to be President of the United States. Wow, just wow. He's in it for himself and that's it.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
I sit and laugh at you all now. I've prayed for the dead.

This will continue, over and over and over, until somebody decides to call a spade a spade and deal with the problem.

Instead, you'd rather consider people like me the problem. Carry on!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 12, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
+1 MH
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
Trump has deliberately marketed himself to a segment of the electorate that is nowhere near large enough to elect him.

Boy we sure hope you're right.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 12, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
Horrific act. All I can do is think of the poor victims and their families.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
we are killing "them", Taliban Shia, Sunni and every brand of radical Islamists

we are killing their leaders, picking them off in drone strikes, by the scores

we are killing them in their training camps and we are killing them in their vehicles as they move

There is world leader consensus that the United States is decimating ISIS in Iraq and Syria

we are, in fact, "winning" the war on radical Islam in the middle east, if killing them is winning

and we have spent tens of billions of dollars here in the US greatly expanding our technology and communications to find and prevent attacks

what else can we possibly do?

what we cannot do is what no other country either has figured out how to do

and that is how to prevent random acts of terror by deranged individual

we could not prevent the Oklahoma City bombing for Timothy McVeigh and we could not prevent the Sandy Hook Elementary school slaughter

what exactly are we not doing, are we supposed to drop a nuclear bomb on every country of earth that has extremists?
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:00pm PT
There were no free people with guns in that club.

So do you think that allowing drunks with guns in clubs is going to reduce gun violence?

Really?

Really???
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
My best friend works for the CIA...Culinary Institute of America...
monolith

climber
state of being
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
So do you think that allowing drunks with guns in clubs is going to reduce gun violence?

Klimmer seems to think so.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
"Klimmer"...."think"....antithetical terms.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
You're so full of sh!t and brainwashed as usual.

The US was supplying and supporting ISIS for a long time until Putin started kickin azz and screwed The US phony fight against ISIS.

The CIA were caught red handed many times among ISIS as their advisors.

You brainwashed stoopid Americans are so clueless .....

Let me just say that Werner is not necessarily wrong here...the old-timer is wise.

monolith

climber
state of being
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:33pm PT
A person in a night club who carries probably shouldn't drink, much like a designated driver.

Klimmer wants designated shooters.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:39pm PT
Locker, even more so.

Fundamentalism does not work.

Particularly when ones chosen god
is the god of war.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jun 12, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
Honey, will you be the designated shooter tonight?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:02pm PT
+2 MH


Trump reminds me of a schoolyard bully who some of the less-obnoxious and less physically intimidating children admire. They look up to him, and think, "I wish I could be like that". The bully represents freedom to them, because he seems to get away with doing whatever he wants to do.

The bully pretends to be nice to some of these sycophants, and gets invited to a birthday party. Once there, he shifts back into bully mode, and wrecks the party, throws the cake against the wall, stomps on the presents, and then runs out the front door, laughing all the way down the street.



I would not be surprised ONE BIT if Trump uses his campaign donations to pay back the personal funds he loaned to his campaign, right before the convention. Then, he would pull out of the race altogether because the "presidential campaign system is rigged, hopeless and unfair; he is being persecuted, people are lying about his past, he is the greatest but nobody will acknowledge that, etc., etc., etc."

Anybody wanna give me some betting action on that one?


overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
Just once would be fine
dirtbag

climber
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
Trump will protect you. Because bankrupting casinos is good preparation. And he has compassion: see below


Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
We can do this. Arm responsible citizens and license them to carry. What would be a good ratio? 1 in 100? 1 in 50? 1 in 25?

How about 1 in 1? Really, Klimmer, you haven't learned your history. Back in the day that a bunch of you posting here didn't live in, Dodge City, KS (the Dodge City we all see in westerns) made every person who entered town give their gun to the sheriff. The reason? there was too much god damn gun fighting. This was Dodge City, Kansas back in the 'Wild West' and you imbeciles want to make it even worse than that. They took away your guns when you went into town, and the reason was to keep the peace. Damn, there are some dense ones here. I don't want to walk down the street nervously handling my pistol because I think I'm going to be bushwhacked by some gun toting SOB. Enough. No more guns. Other countries have done it; are we so stupid we can't?

Klimmer, you live in some distant dreamy land no one else can see and answer to some master none can hear. The second amendment states:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Do you see the part about the well regulated militia? I do and this does not grant the right for every citizen to arm themselves so as to be able to blow the other citizens to hell. The number of guns in America is ridiculous; I only feel MORE threatened with each gun sale.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 12, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
Then you need to seek psychological help.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
Trump has been useful like a forensic black light, to expose the scabies and ringworm of our society.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
Bat poop, Klimmer? All you got is bat poop? I got Elephant sh#t which is way more seriously powerful than bat poop. Nuance, Klimmer, nuance.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Contractor.. Did you mean a kitchen light exposing scurrying cockroaches...?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:39pm PT

There are peace loving Christians however, the more devout one gets in the faith, the more prone a Christian is to believe the whole Bible and the passages that tell them to fight against and to kill the infidel (the non-believer). It is in the Bible in multiple passages.

Radical Christian Terrorists. Who are their greatest enemies? Gays, and anything else that makes them paranoid

Fixed it for you, klimmer
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
Rottingjohnny- I considered it but these guys are dumb as fuk- I can't denigrate roaches to that level in good conscience.

Scabies has a nice ring to it...
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
WBraun-
You're so full of sh!t and brainwashed as usual.

The US was supplying and supporting ISIS for a long time until Putin started kickin azz and screwed The US phony fight against ISIS.

The CIA were caught red handed many times among ISIS as their advisors.

You brainwashed stoopid Americans are so clueless .....

I wonder what Charlie Keating's friends and family would think of this statement.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 12, 2016 - 09:49pm PT
Did they know Charlie Wilson?

We did train Bin Laden.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 12, 2016 - 10:11pm PT

10b4,

You're a liar. You make up non-sense. You try to put words in other people's mouths that they never said.

Your reedit, isn't true.

You don't know a sardonic statement when you see it?
You claim to be an educator, prove it
I'm a liar? That's a good one coming from you.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 13, 2016 - 12:03am PT
Well, it's official. it turns out Taco posters have posted more about the Donald in 10 months than in "what is mind" in six years.
we have voted with our posts.

Donald is more important than your minds.




Seems right...
dirtbag

climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 06:39am PT
Crankster posted this a few pages back. It would be a shame if this got lost in all the weirdness. Anyway, it's another fine example of how Trump ruined his publicly traded company, screwed shareholders, and enriched himself:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/as-its-stock-collapsed-trumps-firm-gave-him-huge-bonuses-and-paid-for-his-jet/2016/06/12/58458918-2766-11e6-b989-4e5479715b54_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_trumpstock-355pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 13, 2016 - 06:52am PT
And yet you spend time here lamenting about all the reasons Trump shouldn't be president rather than espousing all the benefits and good tidings Hillary would bring to the nation on her thread.

What's the matter, seems like you guys ran out of good things to say on the Hillary thread pretty quickly. Lol.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 08:21am PT
And here, trump insinuates that the President might behind the attacks:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/06/13/donald-trump-suggests-president-obama-was-involved-with-orlando-shooting/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pp-trumpobama-955am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Trump supporters: your incessant defense of his hateful nonsense is inexcusable. You're either extremely gullible, crazy or bigoted. Or, two out of three or three out of three.


Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 13, 2016 - 08:52am PT
Trump is now claiming that his anti-Muslim immigration plan would have prevented a man born in New York from shooting up the Orlando nightclub.


The Orlando shooter was a triple-threat: mental illness, religious fanaticism, and abuse of anabolic steroids. A perfect storm.

To focus only on his religion neglects that being bipolar and 'roid raging alone could have caused him to go off the rails.



A man was arrested in Southern California with guns and bomb-making materials. He told police he was headed to the annual gay pride parade in West Hollywood.

He had no ties to Islam, except maybe that he hates Muslims, too.




Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 13, 2016 - 09:00am PT
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/opinion/article83376812.html

Pretty much spot on.

Curt
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 13, 2016 - 09:08am PT
And here, trump insinuates that the President might behind the attacks:

And that is different than the retards on here claiming that Trump and his rhetoric was responsible for the attacks how?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 13, 2016 - 09:24am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 13, 2016 - 10:09am PT
Curt, thanks for that.

edit: seems as though some christian folk like to blame the victims
http://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-politician-slammed-tweet-sent-florida-shooting-174227662.html?ref=gs
dirtbag

climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 10:09am PT
Trump is now claiming that his anti-Muslim immigration plan would have prevented a man born in New York from shooting up the Orlando nightclub.


The Orlando shooter was a triple-threat: mental illness, religious fanaticism, and abuse of anabolic steroids. A perfect storm.

To focus only on his religion neglects that being bipolar and 'roid raging alone could have caused him to go off the rails.



A man was arrested in Southern California with guns and bomb-making materials. He told police he was headed to the annual gay pride parade in West Hollywood.

He had no ties to Islam, except maybe that he hates Muslims, too.


This sh#t is finally backfiring on him.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 13, 2016 - 10:17am PT
This sh#t is finally backfiring on him.

We've been hearing that since last Fall.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 10:29am PT
Trump has acknowledged his deficit with women. "My poll numbers with the men are through the roof. But I like women more than men," Trump said last month. "Come on, women, let's go."

yes, come on, women, let's go - yeah that will get them wimmin to vote for Donald

Romney won the support of just 27 percent of Hispanics nationally in a campaign where he backed the idea of "self-deportation." Trump has gone much further, declaring that some Mexican immigrants are rapists and criminals, calling for a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border and pledging to throw out all people living in the U.S. illegally before allowing "the good ones" back in.

yes indeed, Donald will throw every "illegal" in the United States out, go house to house and rip them away from their US citizen born children, all 15 million of them
and then, maybe let the "good ones back in"

If Satan himself ran on the Republican ticket he would still get 55 million votes
dirtbag

climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 10:45am PT
Edward,it's different now. He has a general election electorate to appeal to now, not a segment of loonies, bigots and cranks. All the bigotry and craziness he used to appeal to the primary voters work against him here.

As the sole candidate he is getting lots of focus from his one opponent and the media. The media is really digging into his record now. The party elite dislike him, even though most won't say so.

Finally, he is basically broke and few want to give him any money. How can he possibly hire enough staff to expand his race into states beyond the already limited republican strongholds?

He's looking increasingly cooked.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 13, 2016 - 11:15am PT
from dirtbags link

Drumpf said on Fox. "You have many, many people, thousands of people, already in our country that are sick with hate.

yeah, no sh#t sherlock. and most of them are voting for you. f*#king f*#ktard.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 13, 2016 - 11:18am PT
Edward,it's different now.

I'd like to think so. But looking at his success, it's hard to rule him out. Everyone thought his announced candidacy in June was a joke. The betting sites were still 5/1 against him in December. Then he stomped all comers in the primaries. He did so with the media giving full coverage to his every gaffe.

Don't underestimate him.

Don't rule him out.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jun 13, 2016 - 11:29am PT
The Rs had 16 candidates.

1. Every one of them were underdogs.

2. One of those underdogs had to win.

No surprise there. I didn't think Trump would get the nomination because he wasn't electable in the general and enough Rs would agree. I was wrong on that.
I still don't think he is electable. However H also has really high negatives.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 13, 2016 - 11:30am PT
How long do you have to watch before she actually says something? Serious question just wondering I gave it a shot
dirtbag

climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 11:36am PT
Edward, you're right, I don't underestimate him, I totally agree.

But while he has had astounding, if unconventional, success, he is also by most measures a deeply flawed, extremely unpopular (so is Hillary) candidate, running a campaign filled with serious internal problems. I doubt he is wearing some kind of impregnable magic suit.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jun 13, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
Right wingnuts are confused, blame Obama for another terrorist attack or thank ISIS and the RNA for wiping out 50 gays...
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
I hope you all get a chance to see and hear Carl Bernstein on CNN today.

From the Clinton Trump political pov, his comments and the words he used were all on point, ime.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 13, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
Does Werner even realize he's one of the "6 stoopid Americans" he keeps blabbering about posting to this thread?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 13, 2016 - 01:33pm PT
and you are #5 Survival?
;)
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 13, 2016 - 01:33pm PT
The new Trump slogan, "Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

Has there ever been anyone running for president with less substance?

Nope.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 13, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
Has there ever been anyone running for president with less substance?

Nope.

I wish that were true, but I rather doubt it. The difference is that he managed to convince a once-important political party to nominate him.

John
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 13, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
From another thread:

Hate breeds more hate.

It is that simple.

Are you helping or making it worse?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 13, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
Right wingnuts are confused, blame Obama for another terrorist attack



dude I'm voting for the bern trump is too popular...
dirtbag

climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
Pyro you are supporting an authoritarian racist.

dirtbag

climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
Donald is now banning the Washington post from his events, probably because he's pissed off they have been digging into his financial records. Even Nixon didn't ban the post at the height of its watergate coverage.


Cowardly and authoritarian. Not only for this, but also for his bigotry against Muslims.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 13, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
where is that picture of your handicapped boyfriend dirt
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 13, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
Pyro you are supporting an authoritarian racist.

Ain't democracy the best!!!


where is that picture of your handicapped boyfriend dirt

Looks like he's done a massive delete of posts with the offensive pic.

Wonder what was said that he finally got the message.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
Oh , the one where your wanna be tough guy Donald picks on a disabled guy?

Is that presidential?

Would you do that?

Do you think it's funny he picks on disabled people?

Is that leadership?


Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 13, 2016 - 02:36pm PT
Smith and Wesson and Ruger stocks are up after the massacre. Sounds like the NRA is behind this shooting.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 02:43pm PT
Looks like he's done a massive delete of posts with the offensive pic.

Huh?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 13, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
here is an Xray of my spine showing titanium screws in the vertebra fused with a rod

That's your criteria for being handicapped?

Are you one of those d-bags who can get around fine, but has (and uses) a handicap parking permit just because you can?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 13, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
I don't want to alarm you but there's an alien implant in your left testicle. Might be the Nilhem...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 13, 2016 - 02:53pm PT
Looks like he's done a massive delete of posts with the offensive pic.

Huh?

Oops. I mistook your handicapped journalist vs. the duck (w/ only 3 posts) for the original (which you've posted 34 times).

Do you think it might be time to let it go?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 03:00pm PT

Are you one of those d-bags who can get around fine, but has (and uses) a handicap parking permit just because you can?

no dumbass, I use two canes some of the time and a wheel chair some of the time

if you knew how to read an Xray you would know how Scoliosis twists and makes walking both painful and difficult, ask your boy Trump to mock me so you can laugh

dirtbag

climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
Edward I'm basically done with the Donald/duck shot, at least for now.


But not the other. Not by a longshot. I think I posted it today. It shows, in a nutshell, exactly who the nominee is. This is not normal: Trump is not normal, and he should be normalized.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 13, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
Edward T... practicing free speech by insulting a handicapped person...Real class...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 13, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
Norton - I apologize for my previous post. I was did not know about your scoliosis.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jun 13, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
Has there ever been anyone running for president with less substance?

You don't really need to look too far--just four years ago, Michelle Bachmann was the leader of the GOP dog pack, riding around on that merry-go-round trying to snag the gold ring.

The only problem was that she actually did seem brighter than some of the others!
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 13, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
edward t- go away. You are showing yourself to be an exemplary representative of the typical drumpf supporter.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 13, 2016 - 05:13pm PT
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central

Jun 13, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
edward t- go away. You are showing yourself to be an exemplary representative of the typical drumpf supporter.

Another fine example of left-wing intolerance and ignorance.

Keep the faith, brutha.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 13, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Wow, EdwardT, just ......wow. You might maybe should step back and read your own stuff.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 13, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
EdwardT didn't know about Nortons condition, and he apologized for it. Leave the guy alone.

Ironic, though, that his own Party is nominating a guy who mocks handicapped people outright, with no apology ever.

Doesn't that make you think, EdwardT ?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 13, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
I've been an independent for the last decade.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 13, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
Ok...so you come off as a Trump supporter, regardless....

Doesn't that strike you as ironic?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 13, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
I've been an independent for the last decade.

oh yes, you may well not be officially registered as a Dem or Repub

but the fact is that I have never seen you post favorably about the President or Hillary
nor I have seen you post negatively about the Republicans

you are an INO - an Independent is Name Only - but you vote Republican

and not because you can actually defend voting Republican but only because you
will not vote Democratic, for reasons that you have never really articulated
just vague references to "libtards" and crap like that

no, you ain't a "real" independent, someone who without bias votes for both parties
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 13, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
Norton's got you pretty nailed, EdwardT.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 13, 2016 - 07:17pm PT
Trump is trying to use the Orlando massacre for political gain.

In an incoherent speech (delivered from teleprompters, no less) he ranted and raved about the power he will have, if elected, to unilaterally change immigration laws and procedures in the United States.


Apparently, he thinks that being President of the United States is like being the president of a privately-held corporation, and that he would have absolute power over the entire organization (the nation).



http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Trump-s-post-Orlando-call-to-defeat-ISIS-8110528.php




NostraThomas predicts:

Trump will find a way to weasel his campaign loan money back to himself, and then abandon the race altogether right before the convention.

When it becomes apparent, even to him, that he has no chance, he will just stomp off in a huff.

Then, Cruz and Rubio and Kasich will furiously scramble to obtain the support of delegates. There will be a veritable graft auction on the convention floor, right out in public, with Cruz offering the most quid pro quo to anybody who will support him.

Then, Hillary wins in the general election.



EDIT:


DIDIUS JULIANUS

After the murder of Pertinax (28 March 193), the Praetorian assassins announced that the throne was to be sold to the man who would pay the highest price.[17] Titus Flavius Claudius Sulpicianus, prefect of the city, father-in-law of the murdered emperor, being at that moment in the camp to which he had been sent to calm the troops, began making offers,[18] whereupon Julianus, having been roused from a banquet by his wife and daughter,[19] arrived in all haste, and being unable to gain admission, stood before the gate, and with a loud voice competed for the prize.[20]

As the bidding went on, the soldiers reported to each of the two competitors, the one within the fortifications, the other outside the rampart, the sum offered by his rival. Eventually Sulpicianus promised 20,000 sesterces to every soldier; Julianus, fearing that Sulpicianus would gain the throne, then offered 25,000.[21] The guards immediately closed with the offer of Julianus, threw open the gates, saluted him by the name of Caesar, and proclaimed him emperor.[22] Threatened by the military, the Senate declared him emperor.[23] His wife and his daughter both received the title Augusta.


In ancient Rome, the soldiers decided who would be emperor.

Today, big business, like the Koch brothers, call the shots.



You stoopid American politards have been brainwashed into thinking that a smoking duck is your Oracle of Delphi. Werner von Braun was the best prize from World War Two, but now he is a crustancient (crabby and old) legend of the Rockcraft.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 13, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
Potatohead...you are a potatohead.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 13, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Jun 13, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
*
*
[Click to View YouTube Video]
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 13, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
So, I guess, you don't need health insurance or social security benefits.

Good for you, Ed!

Moose

That makes no sense.

As far as me being a Republican or Trump supporter, you guys have selective tunnel vision. Today, in this thread, Dirtbag commented that Trumps primary success wont carry over to the general election. I responded with "I'd like to think so."

Does that sound like a Trump supporter?

A few weeks ago, I posted

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Does that sound like a Trump supporter?

About the ACA, I posted " Maybe Hillary will take it on as President. Maybe she's got enough dirt on Republicans to get a better program passed."

Does that sound like a Trump supporter?

This morning, I gave my two cents on gun control. Definitely not a GOP position. Norton accused me of hypocrisy. Swing and a miss for my favorite troll.

From last year.
I saw the following at Change.Org.

If she makes this part of her platform and walks her talk (refuses 527 and dark money support), I'll vote for her.

I might even campaign for her.

I challenge anyone to show where I said I'd vote for Trump.

This boils down to me not being a foaming-at-the-mouth Trump hater. I don't echo the echo chamber mentality that dominates this thread. Therefore, I must be a Trump supporter.

Where I do defend Trump... it's because you guys are obviously full of sh*t in your attack du jour.

Apogee - Where you think Norton "nails it", keep in mind he's lying.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 13, 2016 - 09:39pm PT
Worth repeating...and straight to the point:


Norton

Social climber

Jun 13, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
"I've been an independent for the last decade."

oh yes, you may well not be officially registered as a Dem or Repub

but the fact is that I have never seen you post favorably about the President or Hillary nor I have seen you post negatively about the Republicans

you are an INO - an Independent is Name Only - but you vote Republican

and not because you can actually defend voting Republican but only because you
will not vote Democratic, for reasons that you have never really articulated
just vague references to "libtards" and crap like that

no, you ain't a "real" independent, someone who without bias votes for both parties
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 13, 2016 - 09:55pm PT
All day long keyboard nashing on this mindless drivel.

Isn't it gnashing?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:54am PT
Isn't it gnashing?

Could be noshing...
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Jun 14, 2016 - 04:48am PT
I wonder why Mr. Trump would say the Orlando shooter was "born an Afghan." This is not true. Why lie about it? Klimmer?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 14, 2016 - 06:23am PT
There is almost universal condemnation for his incoherent, ugly rant yesterday. From his own party.

"I am not gonna comment for Donald Trump," Sen. Joni Ernst (R-IA) told reporters Monday as she boarded a Capitol Hill subway. "My own personal feeling, I am very sympathetic and want to express my condolences to those family members, but I can't speak for Donald Trump."

When asked what he thought of Trump's response to the Orlando shooting that left 50 dead, Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-TX) dodged the question.

"There you go again, asking me about Trump."

"I am not going to make a career out of responding to every comment and every tweet," Wicker said.

Reporters kept asking. What did he think of the ban on Muslims? What about Trump's statement that Obama should resign?

"I have been on a train and I haven't had a chance to look at any of those," Wicker said.

"You know, I'm just not gonna comment on stuff, we've gone through this before," Sen. Deb Fischer (R-NE) said on how to combat gun violence.

“Saying nothing would have been better,” said one member of the Republican National Committee. “Every Senate candidate will be forced to answer for Trump's bizarre response. ... His lack of empathy is jarring.”

He's your man if you're a fan of bigotry, fear-mongering and conspiracy-peddling.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 06:30am PT
This is what a real President does ... He will ..

Make America Great Again


Donald Trump's Full Speech on National Security/Hillary Clinton in Manchester, NH (6-13-16)

He's a liar and a hate monger.

You have a twisted idea of "great."
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:37am PT
F*#king Donald Trump trying to turn 50 dead LGBT to his advantage. F*#k Trump, and you too klimmer, for believing this as#@&%e.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 14, 2016 - 08:15am PT
Yeah banning journalists, that will make america great again....

GCF i'll let Donald answer ur hatful comment..

liberals heads are exploding all day long..


I am no fan of President Obama, but to show you how dishonest the phony Washington Post is, they wrote, "Donald Trump suggests President Obama was involved with Orlando shooting" as their headline. Sad!

Donald Trump
dirtbag

climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 08:22am PT
Trump is afraid of the big bad Post.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 14, 2016 - 08:31am PT
So if trump were to be president( unlikely), he would pick, and choose members of the media would cover his press conferences.

#1fox news
#2 national enquirer
dirtbag

climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 09:01am PT
The last three weeks have been horrible for Trump. I'm struggling to think of a worse comparable stretch for any other candidate during any other campaign. He has:

-had thousands of damning documents released in his trump u case
-had a media meltdown at an ensuing press conference
-got ripped a new one by Hillary during a speech in which she simply restated the nonsense he said
-faces an increasingly unified Democratic Party
-while getting at most, tepid support from republican leadership
-showed his racist ugly side by saying the judge in his case should be disqualified because he is Mexican
-showed his bigotry again by bashing american Muslims
-took a victory lap in the face of a national tragedy
-then accused the president of being part of a Muslim conspiracy
-while delivering yet more incoherent, angry, and bigoted remarks against Muslims.
-then started banning the press.
-while potential donors flee, fundraising is meager, and staff nearly non existent
-yet, he stated he believes he can win democratic strongholds of New Jersey and California, and will likely devote precious scarce campaign resources there.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 09:53am PT
"Donald Trump suggests President Obama was involved with Orlando shooting" as their headline. Sad!

well Trump Bumper Sticker "pyro"

the fact is that everyone who heard or read what Trump said knew what he really meant

and it comes right down to Trump's humiliating defeat in trying to prove that the President of the United States was not really born in Hawaii, that somehow his parents faked his birth certificate some 50 years ago

everyone also knows that Trump's personal hatred of the US President is so sick that he yes really does believe that the President, who is killing more radical Muslims and ISIS then anyone else in history, is secretly on the side of the terrorists

everyone gets what he meant, except, predictably you



F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 14, 2016 - 10:19am PT
Klimmer, do you have biscuits and crazy for breakfast every day? Or just on Tuesdays when it's the special down at the Christian white male heteros only cafe?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 14, 2016 - 10:32am PT
Ok, then how about pyro. Or bluering. Or any of the other ardent Trump supporters.

What would Trump have to say or do to lose your support?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 10:33am PT
Crankster nailed it. +++++


There is almost universal condemnation for his incoherent, ugly rant yesterday. From his own party.

"I am not gonna comment for Donald Trump," Sen. Joni Ernst (R-IA) told reporters Monday as she boarded a Capitol Hill subway. "My own personal feeling, I am very sympathetic and want to express my condolences to those family members, but I can't speak for Donald Trump."

When asked what he thought of Trump's response to the Orlando shooting that left 50 dead, Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-TX) dodged the question.

"There you go again, asking me about Trump."

"I am not going to make a career out of responding to every comment and every tweet," Wicker said.

Reporters kept asking. What did he think of the ban on Muslims? What about Trump's statement that Obama should resign?

"I have been on a train and I haven't had a chance to look at any of those," Wicker said.

"You know, I'm just not gonna comment on stuff, we've gone through this before," Sen. Deb Fischer (R-NE) said on how to combat gun violence.

“Saying nothing would have been better,” said one member of the Republican National Committee. “Every Senate candidate will be forced to answer for Trump's bizarre response. ... His lack of empathy is jarring.”

He's your man if you're a fan of bigotry, fear-mongering and conspiracy-peddling.






Republicans in Congress refuse to answer simple questions about how they relate to the policy proposals that have come out of the Anus of Satan (Trump's big mouth).

Ostensibly, Congressional Republicans want to fall into line with a Republican President's master plan for the nation. But this time, the Republican candidate is terminally insane, and possibly contagious, and the Congressional Republicans don't want to have anything to do with him.



So much fun.



dirtbag

climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 10:35am PT
The only republicans defending Donald here are the far right wingers or the weird ones.

All the sane conservatives (JohnE, Blahblah, etc.) bailed long ago.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 14, 2016 - 10:36am PT
I'm genuinely curious. What would Trump have to say or do in order for him to lose your favor?

id be disappointed to see him start backing down to the establishment
I'd be disappointed in seeing him speak politically correct
I'd be disappointed if he divorced that bomb wife of his..

apogee that would do it for me..




Pyro's probably on his knees...

He really LOVES exploding "Heads"...

is this a hateful gay comment!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 14, 2016 - 10:36am PT
Ok dimmer, the president called it radical Islam, like your boy wanted. Will it get better now?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 14, 2016 - 10:40am PT
"id be disappointed to see him start backing down to the establishment"

You don't think he's already done this, pyro?

Look at his vitriolic stance against the establishment early in the primaries, vs. now.

He has no chance of getting into office without 'exploding the head' of the Establishment.


"I'd be disappointed in seeing him speak politically correct"

Did you see his speech yesterday? The teleprompter speech? Or did you choose to ignore that one?


"I'd be disappointed if he divorced that bomb wife of his.."

He's already divorced three bomb wives (or some such). Did you notice that?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 14, 2016 - 10:41am PT
the president called it radical Islam, like your boy wanted.

Oh, so Obeezy is taking orders from Trump now? And he shamed Hillary into saying it also.

Man, this is getting good.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 10:45am PT
I'd be disappointed if he divorced that bomb wife of his..


She's the one who is going to initiate the divorce, if consistent history has any relation to the future. Trump didn't leave Ivana. Trump didn't leave Marla. His first two wives were not going to put up with Trump's blatant, hyper-public infidelity.




So far, Melania hasn't been distressed by a tabloid headline that says:

TRUMP AND STRUMPET



But, just wait.

Be patient.

It's gonna happen.




Dood's insane.

Noam Sane?

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 14, 2016 - 10:47am PT
If you're under 50 you really need to read this. If you’re over 50, you lived through it, so share it with those under 50. Amazing to me how much I had forgotten!

When Bill Clinton was president, he allowed Hillary to assume authority over health care reform. Even after threats and intimidation, she couldn’t even get a vote in a democratic controlled congress. This fiasco cost the American taxpayers about $13 million in cost for studies, promotion, and other efforts.

Then President Clinton gave Hillary authority over selecting a female attorney general. Her first two selections were Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood – both were forced to withdraw their names from consideration. Next she chose Janet Reno. Husband, Bill, described her selection as “my worst mistake.” Some may not remember that Reno made the decision to gas David Koresh and the Branch Davidian religious sect in Waco, Texas resulting in dozens of deaths of women and children.

Husband, Bill, allowed Hillary to make recommendations for the head of the Civil Rights Commission. Lani Guanier was her selection. When a little probing led to the discovery of Ms. Guanier’s radical views, her name had to be withdrawn from consideration.

Apparently a slow learner, husband, Bill, allowed Hillary to make some more recommendations. She chose former law partners Web Hubbel for the Justice Department, Vince Foster for the White House staff, and William Kennedy for the Treasury Department. Her selections went well: Hubbel went to prison, Foster (presumably) committed suicide, and Kennedy was forced to resign.

Many younger voters will have no knowledge of “Travelgate.” Hillary wanted to award unfettered travel contracts to Clinton friend Harry Thompson – and the White House Travel Office refused to comply. She managed to have them reported to the FBI and fired. This ruined their reputations, cost them their jobs, and caused a thirty-six month investigation. Only one employee, Billy Dale was charged with a crime, and that of the enormous crime of mixing personal and White House funds. A jury acquitted him of any crime in less than two hours.

Still not convinced of her ineptness, Hillary was allowed to recommend a close Clinton friend, Craig Livingstone, for the position of Director of White House security. When Livingstone was investigated for the improper access of about 900 FBI files of Clinton enemies (Filegate) and the widespread use of drugs by White House staff, suddenly Hillary and the president denied even knowing Livingstone, and of course, denied knowledge of drug use in the White House.

Following this debacle, the FBI closed its White House Liaison Office after more than thirty years of service to seven presidents.

Next, when women started coming forward with allegations of sexual harassment and rape by Bill Clinton, Hillary was put in charge of the scandal defense. Some of her more notable decisions in the debacle were:

She urged her husband not to settle the Paula Jones lawsuit. After the Starr investigation they settled with Ms. Jones.

She refused to release the Whitewater documents, which led to the appointment of Ken Starr as Special Prosecutor.

After $80 million dollars of taxpayer money was spent, Starr's investigation led to Monica Lewinsky, which led to Bill lying about and later admitting his affairs.

Hillary’s game plan resulted in Bill losing his license to practice law for 'lying under oath' to a grand jury and then his subsequent impeachment by the House of Representatives.

Hillary avoided indictment for perjury and obstruction of justice during the Starr investigation by repeating, “I do not recall,” “I have no recollection,” and “I don’t know” a total of 56 times while under oath.

After leaving the White House, Hillary was forced to return an estimated $200,000 in White House furniture, china, and artwork that she had stolen.

Now we are exposed to the destruction of possibly incriminating emails while Hillary was Secretary of State and the “pay to play” schemes of the Clinton Foundation – we have no idea what shoe will fall next.

But to her loyal fans (supporters) - I guess in her own words “what difference does it make?” I guess being a female Democrat is all that matters. By the way, I'd post the same if she were a Republican. You see, she's already been in the White House, she has a record we can review.

Hillary for prison 2016 would be a good start to help make America safe again!!! - check the facts.


apagoo I answer your question.. then it's followed by you attacking my opinion.. liberals heads are exploding all over ur face...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 14, 2016 - 10:48am PT
Obeezy? Fvck you too escarpment.

"Somebody thinks we're confused about who we're fighting? That would come as a surprise to the thousands of terrorists we've taken off the battlefield."
President Barack Obama
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 14, 2016 - 10:59am PT
I don't think you'd back down from your support.

your right! so know that I've answered your question answer mine who are you?


also I've been a fan of Trump since celebrity apprentice..
the Donald just kills it..
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:04am PT
And you think entertainment value translates into the leadership of our Country?


That is precisely why Trump is popular, and why our Country is doomed. Too many dull-witted voters who blur the lines between entertainment and real events.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:06am PT
Pyro, you are correct in the details of the Clinton presidency, and how Hillary had some influence.


I think the way you present the details is biased, though.


$13 million to study health care reform is peanuts.

I used to work in the medical device industry. Go to the patent office website, USPTO.GOV and search patents, specifically Inventor Name, using "Kasper, Thomas A." as your input.

If you don't think that SERIOUS reform, in form of draconian legislation, isn't required RIGHT NOW, then you are not paying attention. The medical and pharmaceutical industries and their powerful lobbyists are not working for the public's best interest. Instead of helping people be healthy and stay alive, the industry is now populated by vicious cannibals who only see $$$$$$$$.



Janet Reno didn't "gas" David Koresh and the Branch Davidians. There was a federal search warrant for serious firearms violations, and it was widely known that Koresh was a mentally ill child molester who had become a self-professed Jesus figure to his simple-minded followers. Koresh brainwashed his followers into believing that some sort of Biblically-prophesised END OF TIMES was occurring, and the event was essentially a mass suicide by a religious cult.

What happened in Waco was very similar to what happen in Jonestown.



So, I think your post was slanted to favor your personal view, which is fine.

I just wanted to retort that I can see the slant.




The most important thing is that we communicate, in a civil manner. You may be able to change my mind, or vice versa.



Why did you call me a dickhead, earlier?



THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN COMMUNICATION CHANNELS BREAK DOWN

[Click to View YouTube Video]



I apologize for the hideous cinematography and absurd editing on that one.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:08am PT
President, who is killing more radical Muslims and ISIS then anyone else in history, is secretly on the side of the terrorists

Obama is killing more radical Muslims than anyone else in history?

Bullsh*t.

Norton - How about some valid sources to back that claim.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:13am PT
^^^^^^ ++++++

Killing most radical Muslims in history?

Does that concept of history include pre-21st Century?



It's great to be agitated and vociferous about an issue. But, to be taken seriously, there has be some level of restraint when it comes to outsized rhetoric.


A perfect example of someone without this sort of rhetorical filter is Trump.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:16am PT
Don't answer EdwardT, Norton.

Instead, do the usual Republican thing here at ST, whenever they are asked to substantiate their claim:

'Prove it's wrong yourself- look it up!'
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:23am PT
Obeezy? Fvck you too escarpment.

Man, you're really bitter about the $11 Trillion man taking orders from Drumph.

I guess I would be too if he was my boy.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:26am PT
The republicans have once again guaranteed a democratic election, as they did with the Palin snafu. Trump is a total buffoon and not someone I want representing the US to the world governments.

Now we will have to listen to that blaring b!tch for 4-8 years. I can't stand her blaring voice.

This is the best the US can do? Sad statement on our political system.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:32am PT
Donald trump, making America great again:




EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:33am PT
Don't answer EdwardT, Norton.

Instead, do the usual Republican thing here at ST, whenever they are asked to substantiate their claim:

'Prove it's wrong yourself- look it up!'

There's Apogee I know. Taking the low road. Excusing your buddy's lies. Trying to put the onus on me for other's bad behavior.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:34am PT
My president, Barack Hussein Obama, is most certainly not taking any orders from the reality TV boy Drumpf. You're smoking too much meth escargot.

Watch for yourself what a real leader looks like.



[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:35am PT
yeah

women's voices really grate on me to

why can't they sound like a man anyway?

+, they are b!tches too don't forget
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:38am PT
I must assume if your defending Donald or voting Republican you; make over $500k per year, you have zero reliance on the environment and you have no children- otherwise you'd be a self incriminating idiot.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:42am PT
I agree about the weird old lady, Cabbage Patch doll with the annoying and blaring voice...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:47am PT
Just turning the ST Republican strategy back on you, EdwardT.

Ask Esco...he's a master at redirection.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:49am PT
All the true Trump haters are funny as Hell... He must be quite a real estate tycoon as he lives in all your heads rent-free!

It's an act. Can't you recognize the circus? Next he'll be stomping Chihuahuas on stage trying to jump this shark.


Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:53am PT
^^^ They're mad that he's figured out the great mystery of US politics and their candidate is left stammering as the windbag Drumph steals their limelight.

Its hilarious honestly. Some of these dudes need to check their blood pressure more regularly.

And Drumph even has Obeezy so wrapped up that he is forced to go on national television for damage control since Donald Duck has been calling him out from three days. Sad.. so sad...
Norton

Social climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:54am PT
pyro proudly stated:

also I've been a fan of Trump since celebrity apprentice..
the Donald just kills it..

yeah me too!

I especially liked it at the end of the show when he would tell people "you're fired"!

he is such a man's man, like a father figure to me and pyro and escoLiar

we long for the days of Father Knows Best when men where men and women knew their place in the kitchen

enough of this Political Correctness, Donald tells it like it is!
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:54am PT
No normal human would voluntarily act and look that way in public and no normal human would support or admire the fat orange freak show.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 11:56am PT
We need to tone down the ad hominem attacks against people who post here. If you disagree with someone's post, then present your opposing view.

Don't post slander against a person posting an opposing viewpoint.


Back away from the ad hominem attack strategy, and comment on how Trump is a slanderous buffoon who can't present a coherent argument.

It is pointless to attempt to out-Trump Trump.


Listen to the MASTER - Mad Max Beyond The Thunderdome





Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
Ted Nugent
Donald Trump
George W

I'm I missing something? Why do these guys get so hard when cupping the balls of draft dodgers?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
"So this is my appeal to President Obama, Hillary Clinton, and to all liberals and Muslims, for humanity’s sake let’s stop playing politics with evil. Just as this so obviously has something to do with lax gun laws, it so clearly has something to do with Islam. Hillary Clinton nearly conceded as much after these recent attacks. But liberals must own this debate, not merely appear to be defensively reacting to Trump’s agenda."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/14/admit-it-these-terrorists-are-muslims.html

"The second danger is in the non-Muslim context. What happens if we don’t name the Islamist ideology and distinguish it from Islam? We leave a void for the vast majority of Americans— who are unaware of the nuances in this debate — to be filled by Donald Trump and the Populist Right."
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
We need to tone down the ad hominem attacks against people who post here. If you disagree with someone's post, then present your opposing view.

Don't post slander against a person posting an opposing viewpoint.


Back away from the ad hominem attack strategy, and comment on how Trump is a slanderous buffoon who can't present a coherent argument.

It is pointless to attempt to out-Trump Trump.

Listen to the MASTER.

You're a funny guy.

Tone down the ad hominem attacks?

Don't post slander against a person?

It's a nice sentiment. But the haters dominate the political forums.

Toning it down ain't gonna happen.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
Nice post nita,

Ken Burns couldn’t have said it any better.

Propaganda, hate, disinformation that’s what it is all about. Welcome to our new police state.

Hey Klimmer,

“Hillary Clinton repeatedly used unsecured phones to contact four of her lesbian lovers”

“WASHINGTON COVERUP!

Hillary Clinton Lesbian Love Letter Panic

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/photos/hillary-clinton-lesbian-email-scandal-huma/photo/149771/

OFFICIAL REPORT!

Hillary Clinton Caught With Lesbian Lovers

New scandal as candidate shamed by State Department inspector!
Posted on May 27, 2016 @ 14:19PM

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/photos/hillary-clinton-lesbian-lovers-state-department-report/photo/159534

I like your sources, you are good, here is one on Obama being Gay. Must have slipped your mind.




Jack Van Impe Ministries




Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
Trump is going to be a very good President.


He was already a very good president.

He ran his Atlantic City Trump casino empire right into the ground. He took the casino company public, borrowed huge sums from gullible investors, and the shareholders lost everything. His daughter Ivanka was one of the board directors who gave Trump a huge salary, and subsidized his absurdly large private jet airplane.

He was a very good president. He walked away from the economic debacle with a large sum of money for himself. Like the proverbial successful gambler, he walked away from the table when he was ahead. He won, and they lost.

Dood's the Man.



If you think that success is measured by accumulating money at the expense of injuring and distressing other people, then Trump is the Big Winner.





I think Trump is a seriously disturbed individual who has little or no empathy or concern for other people.

Trump is like a big, aggressive and physically intimidating member of a primitive tribe who violently gathers all the food for himself, and then protects it as it rots, while the rest of the tribe starves.


Dood's the Man

Dood's Insane.

Dood is Trump.

. . Noam Sane?



dirtbag

climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
^^^great screenshots!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
That guy's head is about to explode...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
Trump is going to be a very good President.


HaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
couchmaster

climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:32pm PT

Fake note on Craigslist? Another gay ready for Donald? From - http://sacramento.craigslist.org/pol/5635340979.html

quote, full text: "This Gay Man Is Leaving Hillary For Trump (Chico)

Today I have made the most decision in my life. Never before would I have ever thought this day would come. As a lifetime Democrat, I have always voted and fought for the candidate who espoused my beliefs and defended my rights as a homosexual. Never again will I support the Democrat party, because at a time when the gay community needed them the most, they have turned their back on us.

A piece of my heart died this past weekend when a Muslim entered the pulse nightclub in Orlando with the expressed purpose of killing gay people. In the worst terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11, both Obama, and Hillary have been doing everything they can to blame everyone but the people responsible for the attack.

It was not the NRA, it was not a Christian, it was not a Republican, it was not some idiotic talking head on some radio station. It was an avowed Muslim who went into the club with only one purpose. He succeeded in murdering those I identify with, those I call friends, those I call brothers ans sisters. Yet, today I am told by those I trusted that it was not whom we all know it was.
I made a very important decision today, one that my friends an family will be shocked about. Today I decided to never again support the Democrat party. Why? Why would an avowed and proud homosexual leave the party to support Donald Trump? It's because at a time when the gay community needed them the most, they have turned their back on us.

As a lifetime Democrat, I have always voted and fought for the candidate who espoused my beliefs and defended my rights as a homosexual. I even voted for Hillary over Sanders in our primary. However, a apiece of my heart died this past weekend when a Muslim entered the pulse nightclub in Orlando with the expressed purpose of killing gay people. Not since Sept 11, 2001 has America been attacked in such a hateful way.

Since the attack, the Democrat party, including Clinton and Obama, have been doing everything they can to blame everyone and everything but the people responsible for the attack.

Sorry, but never in my life has the NRA killed 49 gay people at one time, never in my life has any Christians killed 49 gay people at one time, never in my life has any Republican killed 49 gay people at one time, never in my life has any talk show host from any radio station killed 49 gay people at one time, and never in my life has any other American killed 49 gay people at tine time. Yet, we has an avowed Muslim who hated gay people murder 49 succeed in murdering those I identify with, those I call friends, those I call brothers ans sisters.,

Yet, today I hear Democrats from all corners of the party point fingers at everyone and everything but at those responsible for this heinous crime. Plus I am told by those I defended and supported, that we need to bring in more of these animals into our country. So in the future I can expect more friends, more brothers and sisters, more people I identify with to be murdered because we all decide to be what we are. Mark my words, what happened at the Pulse nightclub, will happen again and again. Thanks to Hillary Clinton Obama, and the once great Democrat party.

So after many years voting for the Democrat nominees for President, and after much heartfelt consideration, today I have become a one issue voter, and that issue is to stop all Muslims who hail from any countries that espouses the death for anyone who is gay, from entering the United States. Plus I want those who espouse the death of anyone who is gay to be deported back to the country they came from. Thus, today I am a Donald Trump Supporter. "
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
Today I have made the most decision in my life.


My fourth grade English teacher, Mrs. Page, is rolling in her grave right now.


It is very hard to take people seriously, when they are illiterate.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
Dood's the Man

Dood's Insane.

Dood is Trump.

. . Noam Sane?

No, I do not know what you are saying. Are you illiterate?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:46pm PT
^^^^^ +++++ 10 10 10 10 10


Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
Dood's the Man

Dood's Insane.

Dood is Trump.

. . Noam Sane?



No, I do not know what you are saying. Are you illiterate?




No, I am literate.

I was expressing myself there with song and cadence.

I apologize for not using an italic font to better communicate my intent.

I am sorry that I confused you.



Those two oddly-placed periods were intended to mimic 16th notes, as played on a drum, as a musical rest, of sorts.

When Big Mac upgrades this forum to allow a proper musical staff, I won't have to resort to such a primitive method of expressing myself in song.



Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
Trump's good buddy Vladimir Putin had his KGB buddies hack into the DNC computers, to steal opposition information about Donald D#@&%e.


Gotta love the love between those two.


http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/politics-government/article83673782.html#storylink=latest_side




pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 14, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
Even survival is melting down.

You people have been 0wned over and over ......


dirtbag

climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
How to respond to trump's assault on a free press:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-right-response-to-donald-trump-a-media-blackout/2016/06/14/2868a0e0-3256-11e6-8758-d58e76e11b12_story.html

Pyro et al: learn your history. This is how dictators gain power. You can't say you haven't been warned.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 14, 2016 - 02:22pm PT
Pyro et al: learn your history. This is how dictators gain power. You can't say you haven't been warned.

you have been warned dirtboy!
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jun 14, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
Trump has removed the thin veil that was covering the bigotry permeating much of the right and exposed it's shallow, selfish, stupid nature. Not only has this driven many moderates away, but it also exposes those remaining for what they truly are.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 02:38pm PT
F*#king lowlife bigoted garbage:

"The Muslims have to work with us,” Trump said. “They know what’s going on.” They knew, he claimed, that the Orlando shooter “was bad.” “They knew the people in San Bernadino were bad. But you know what? They didn’t turn them in. And you know what? We had death and destruction.”
Norton

Social climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
Clinton Leads Trump 49-37 In Dramatic New Poll


A new Bloomberg poll published Tuesday shows Hillary Clinton leading Donald Trump 49 percent to 37 percent among likely voters nationwide. It also showed that 55 percent of those polled said that they would never vote for Trump.

“Clinton has a number of advantages in this poll, in addition to her lead,” J. Ann Selzer, the pollster who oversaw the survey, told Bloomberg. “Her supporters are more enthusiastic than Trump’s and more voters overall see her becoming a more appealing candidate than say that for Trump.”

Bloomberg notes that Trump's "negatives remain unusually high for a presidential candidate" and that "Clinton's polling advantage over Trump followed a strong week for her that has included primary wins and multiple endorsements."

It also said that it was "troubling" for Trump that 63 percent of women polled said they could never vote for him. For decades, female voters have made up a majority of the electorate.

sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 14, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
drumpf will just keep sticking his yuuge foot in his mouth, over and over, until the GOP is forced to turn their backs on him. The guy has nothing, no substance, no answers, just buzz words he keeps barfing out that will lose their effect by the end of summer. The GOP should hang its collective head in shame that such a shyster represents their party. I see a third party emerging after this election...
Norton

Social climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 03:55pm PT
I see dead people
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 14, 2016 - 03:57pm PT
Chump is a complete sideshow clown. It is sad that some people legitimize him.

It is almost enough to subscribe to the conspiracy theories that he is a DNC implant....almost.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 14, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
Norton, a 12-point lead isn't nearly enough. This buffoon has to go down by at least 20.

But, I'll take it.

After his epic loss in November he should give the GOP their party back and start his own. The White Nationalist Party.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 14, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
Trump is sinking like a dead weight, good riddance.



Listening to the dope now, can't believe he has come this far.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 14, 2016 - 04:25pm PT
Hopefully that trend continues all the way to the election.

It would be sweet justice to see him lose stupendously to Hillary, on a scale never before seen in Presidential politics.

There's a few heads I'd like to see explode around here and the outside world. Maybe it would be enough to bring them back to some semblance of reality.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 04:36pm PT
On 12 December 1941, five days after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, Adolf Hitler made a revealing speech in Berlin to Nazi leaders, both Gauleiter and Reichleiter; and Josef Goebbels recorded in his diary what had been said: ‘With regard to the Jewish Question the Fuehrer is determined to make a clean sweep. He prophesized that if they brought about another world war, they would experience their annihilation. This was no empty talk. The world war is here. The annihilation of the Jews must be the necessary consequence. This question is to be viewed without sentimentality. We’re not to have sympathy with the Jews, but only sympathy with our German people. If the German people has again now sacrificed around 160,000 dead in the eastern campaign, the instigators of this bloody conflict will have to pay for it with their own lives."

It’s hard to imagine a clearer statement of principle.

The day before he uttered these words, 11 December, Adolf Hitler had declared war on America in the wake of the Japanese attack on Hawaii. A ‘world war’ had indeed just begun. And, as a consequence, the flames of Hitler’s own intense prejudice and hatred of the Jews were fanned into a firestorm.

Hitler had always blamed the Jews for Germany’s defeat in the last ‘world war’ in 1918. He maintained that German Jews had profited from the sacrifice of German soldiers on the front line, and that it had been Jewish influence that had led to the decision to make peace with the Allies in the autumn of 1918, when the German army was still fighting outside German borders.

It was a fantasy, of course. Jews were dying in the German army in proportionately as large numbers as non-Jews, and the reason for the armistice was that Germany was exhausted, with millions on the brink of starvation as the result of the Allied sea blockade. But the Jews were a convenient scapegoat for Germany’s humiliation in the First World War, and it became an absolute act of faith for both Hitler and the rest of the Nazi movement that the Jews had sabotaged Germany’s chances of winning the conflict.

Indeed, in Mein Kampf, written in the early 1920s, Hitler explicitly linked the imagined deceit of the Jews in the First World War with the need for their destruction, saying that the ‘sacrifice of millions at the front’ would have been prevented if ‘twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the people had been held under poison gas."
Norton

Social climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
Norton, a 12-point lead isn't nearly enough. This buffoon has to go down by at least 20.


Crankster, bear in mind this is a national poll and not state by state specific as we determine the Presidency - Electoral College

also, we do not know how this poll is weighted and filtered

for example the poll could be way, way off in terms of turnout, underestimating the rapidly growing hatred and disgust towards Trump

in addition, I believe pollsters do not call cell phones but just use a filter number
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jun 14, 2016 - 04:47pm PT

After his epic loss in November he should give the GOP their party back and start his own. The White Nationalist Party.

he should grow a mustache too.


survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 14, 2016 - 05:11pm PT
Fvck nazi Germany.
And you too Werner.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 14, 2016 - 05:14pm PT

Jun 14, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
Coming November Trump will win by a landslide a new TV show.

Celebrity POTUS.

Where the also ran will all compete for virtual POTUS status ......

Ducky,

You need to get past the random word generator shtick and try making actual sentences English speakers can parse.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
^Must be a computer thing. I got it. I might have edited "ran" to "rans" or substituted pres_wannabees.

hB:

How did you find out about the celebpotus? I've been working with [unnamed] on the HoloPres for months.

Don't tell anybody else, OK?



Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 14, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Aw, come on y'all; Trump just wants a little respect. Is that so much to ask?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 14, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 14, 2016 - 05:41pm PT
You gotta give it to get it, winemaker.

It's true in politics, and it's true at ST.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 05:52pm PT
Good one, Craig!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 14, 2016 - 05:58pm PT

Swim Suit Model
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 14, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
Yargle Bargle, that's good sh#t.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 14, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
TIME owns everyone...

Wrong! Time is on my side, my mistaken friend!
[Click to View YouTube Video]

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 14, 2016 - 06:22pm PT
So now we know why klimmer likes the trumps. . . . .

http://twentytwowords.com/glimpse-at-the-life-of-donald-trumps-other-daughter-tiffany-with-her-sultry-and-controversial-instagram/?utm_source=facebook-desktop&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=daughter-trump
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 14, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
^^^Ikes man stop gossiping, if you got sumpth'in to say, say it.

We're all family here. Aren't we?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 14, 2016 - 06:52pm PT
Clinton Leads Trump 49-37 In Dramatic New Poll

That's interesting because when I opened my news app this was the first that popped up.

Trump gains slightly on Clinton after Florida attack - poll

NEW YORK, June 14 (Reuters) - Hillary Clinton's lead over Donald Trump in the U.S. presidential race has narrowed since late last week, according to the results of the first Reuters/Ipsos poll conducted since the Orlando shooting rampage on Sunday.

So sorry. Lol.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:03pm PT

lol

so you found a poll that says your boy is losing bad and you conclude that's funny

going to be in high school next year honey boo boo?
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
You I promised myself I wouldn't come over here,
but should I shy away from a good political argument?
Sound mental health for a start.
Screw it, here goes...

The Modern Stone Man Hitler

Welcome to the age
Of a modern stone man Hitler
With his hate and his vitriol
As he rants upon the stage
No one is appalled
Or reminded by his rage

Reminded of the one that they called Adolph
Or remembers how he murdered and scape goated the Jews because they were different
Or how he enslaved the conquered
Or when he destroyed and corrupted and bankrupted and perverted a whole nation
How he warped the minds of children
And how he died in a bunker taking loved ones with him and left behind his criminals and his fascist philosophy
And left his ravaged country to the hands of vengeful soviets who raped and enslaved them for forty odd more years
Thank you Hitler you savage monstrous despot

Do nothing all you haters
Don't study on your history
Don't honor fallen veterans who died fighting fascist in a war the world's not witnessed for seventy f*#king years

Just follow in rapt ignorance
This hateful wealthy con-man
Who's stuck it to his customers
And sued by the thousands
Anyone who speaks his name
Without lavish praise and awe
At his poignant bleating calls
For bigoted racist blame of any immigrant or opposition who stands in his way

Oh don't come to our shores
Your tired poor huddled masses
Yearning to breathe free
Send away these wretched refuse back to their teeming shores
The fearful angry 'Mericans
Are packing and are loaded
For bear and for Muslims but too busy shooting children
So you don't wanna get in their way

It's the new age of Hitler
Now swept across the land
Because some of are still angry
Because the others of us voted
And put a black man in charge
And the racism has bloomed
And the rage and hatred blossomed
And fear that's masked by hatred has now somehow become cool
Because more feared by the forgetful
Is the thought of a woman taking charge of all the cowardly misogynist gun toters
They're afraid to lose their cannons and the right to blow big lethal holes through the animals crooks or babies or whatever gets in the way of their hatred un-curtailed or their miserable f*#ked up ways

There will be no reckoning
Or justice meted forward
No retribution coming
For the unprincipled and violent
Who refuse to remember how we all came from a distant shore
To arrive here lonely and afraid
But not frightened enough to not find
A hapless unarmed victim
To murder or enslave like our brothers the Navaho who once endured Cortez
so we with our religion could try to do the same

Welcome to the age
Of a modern stone man Hitler
Who throws words like stones and arrows
And if your children grow up studying science and history they'll think back to where they came from and they'll want to change their names

Welcome to the age
Of the modern stone man Hitler
If you can't recall his name
Or his legacy or his illness
Then we're bound to do the same

-bushman
06/14/2016
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 14, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
The one time Trump doesn't want any free air time, his lawyers want to suppress videos of his deposition.

Boo Hoo. Too prejudicial. However.

"This is precisely the type of 'prejudice' our adversarial system demands," the ex-students' lawyers said, adding that Trump "may think anything that does not go his way is unfair, but that is clearly not the legal definition of unfair prejudice."



Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 14, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
Yep, 10b4me, that's the old Klimmer we know and love, lots of women half his age hit on him. Magic ethereal fantasy is probably the right moniker for that stuff, except sort of Tumpian directed.
Fossil climber

Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
Jun 14, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
When there are millions of people who are - simultaneously - true believers in religion, Donald Trump and the sanctity of assault rifles, the degree of irrationality is so high that there seems little hope for the US.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 14, 2016 - 08:33pm PT
Wrong! Time is on my side, my mistaken friend!

Has your soul been Psychodelicized?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 14, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
Chump is a complete sideshow clown. It is sad that some people legitimize him.

It is almost enough to subscribe to the conspiracy theories that he is a DNC implant....almost.

A four year old child could see through the charade.

The war puppet will be placed in front of her teleprompter to rule... errr.. to read rather...

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 14, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
When there are millions of people who are - simultaneously - true believers in religion, Donald Trump and the sanctity of assault rifles, the degree of irrationality is so high that there seems little hope for the US.

There is always hope.

Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 14, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
Has your soul been Psychodelicized?

Ya think?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 15, 2016 - 06:13am PT
No comment needed.......

Pastor James David Manning, a notoriously anti-gay preacher who is a frequent guest on conspiracy theorist Alex Jones’s show, took to Twitter on Wednesday to announce with great sorrow that he’s rescinding his endorsement of Trump due to Trump’s rhetorical overtures to the LGBT community.

“I am sadden to withdraw support [for Trump],” he solemnly wrote. “My bible beliefs are deeply held. Sodomy is more dangerous to America than radical Islam.”
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 15, 2016 - 06:28am PT
Most leaders of the Republican Party can't bring themselves to even say the buffoon's name. Tell me, exactly, how that is going to turn into electoral victory in November?
Answer: It is not.
My guess: Clinton 358, Trump 180.

Asked about Trump’s suggestion that President Barack Obama is sympathetic to Islamic terrorism, and that the president may have been somehow connected to Sunday’s shooting at an Orlando gay nightclub, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) also decided to take a pass.

“I’m not going to be commenting on the presidential candidate today,” McConnell told reporters, notably avoiding calling Trump by name.

Across the Capitol, House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) distanced himself from Trump’s rhetoric and proposal to ban Muslims from entering the United States, telling reporters he did not think the ban was “in our country’s interests.” But he, too, declined to comment on Trump’s dark insinuation against the president.


Rep. Kristi Noem (R-S.D.) took a similar tack.

“Aw, man. I’m not going to speak to that,” she told The Huffington Post when asked about Trump’s proposals. “I won’t give you an answer on that today.”

Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), meanwhile, refused to even refer to Trump as the party’s presumptive nominee, even though the Manhattan businessman has secured enough delegates to clinch the nomination next month at the GOP convention.


Sen. Mike Enzi (R-Wyo.) headed down a flight of stairs and kept walking out of the Capitol as HuffPost tried to get his response to Trump’s comments about Muslims.

“I don’t make any comments on the presidential candidates,” Enzi said. “If you’ve got an issue you want to talk to me about that I’m working on, I’m happy to talk about it.”

Asked if that means he has no thoughts on Trump being his party’s presidential nominee, the Wyoming senator paused, and before walking off, said only, “Not that I’m sharing.”

dirtbag

climber
Jun 15, 2016 - 06:34am PT
^^^that party has really f*#ked up. They've encouraged these nativist idiots for decades. It worked pretty well for awhile but now they are paying a price.




According to a Washington post/abc poll, trump's unfavorable ratings hit 70%, up from 60% a few weeks ago. Yeah, I know, it's early, but the trend line in the chart sure looks bad for the orange menace.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/15/negative-views-of-donald-trump-just-hit-a-new-high-7-in-10-americans/
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jun 15, 2016 - 08:42am PT
Trumpty Drumphry bragged up his wall
Trumpty Drumphry sure had some gall
All the wing's sources and all the wing's men
Could only agree that his wife was a 10
scts22

Big Wall climber
geneva
Jun 15, 2016 - 08:53am PT
love it, the 2nd pic is the best
scts22

Big Wall climber
geneva
Jun 15, 2016 - 08:57am PT
as obama says, "orange is NOT the new black"
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Jun 15, 2016 - 09:28am PT
Escopeta,
Why do bands who would hate your love of Trump? You should be ashamed!
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 15, 2016 - 09:49am PT
mrtophy,

I'm pretty good at interpretation, but I'm not sure I understand what you were trying to say.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 15, 2016 - 09:57am PT
I think he's talking about your avatar pic, Esco.

I'd guess that the majority of the bands & band members of the bands you regularly post in your avatar pic would be in stark disagreement with most of your ideologic views.

MC5? Do you know what that band's legacy was?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 15, 2016 - 10:02am PT
No, I just thought they had pretty colors in their logo. Good grief.


But since you mention it, I guess some things never change since Democrats are still rioting outside political gatherings. Such an angry bunch they are... Lol.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 15, 2016 - 10:14am PT
I'm pleased that the majority of the right wing kooks on ST reside in Cali where there votes don't mean shite.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 15, 2016 - 10:16am PT
MC5 would not approve of your views, Esco. Neither would the Dead Milkmen, Circle Jerks, or any of the other bands you regularly cycle through your avatar.

Are you in the closet about your real beliefs? Come on out...it's safe here...
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 15, 2016 - 10:41am PT
MC5 would not approve of your views, Esco. Neither would the Dead Milkmen, Circle Jerks, or any of the other bands you regularly cycle through your avatar.


App...respectfully. How in the Sam Heck would YOU know what these bands believe in????


You are their agent???

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 15, 2016 - 10:41am PT
"The Muslims have to work with us,” Trump said. “They know what’s going on.” They knew, he claimed, that the Orlando shooter “was bad.” “They knew the people in San Bernadino were bad. But you know what? They didn’t turn them in. And you know what? We had death and destruction.”



The East German Stasi secret police relied almost exclusively on private citizen informants to learn about alleged political crimes committed by other citizens.

East Germany was great back in the day, and Trump will make America great like that, too.

There won't be any journalism nonsense, or dissenting citizens. The entire country will exist in a stupor of fear. The wall will be used to keep people in, not keep people out. Nobody will want to live here, and trying to escape will carry a death sentence by summary execution.


Trump will soon unveil his plans to piggy-back on Kim Jong-un's very popular North Korean domestic programs, that have ZERO PERCENT opposition.




Trump will change the executive title to President of States, POS, because that abbreviation already suits him perfectly.




Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 15, 2016 - 10:49am PT
If you see something, say something.....
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 15, 2016 - 10:55am PT
If don't see anything, but you dislike your neighbor, say something anyway . . . . .


That's how that schnit played, back then.

Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 15, 2016 - 11:12am PT
App...respectfully. How in the Sam Heck would YOU know what these bands believe in????

Guyman, the MC5 were quite the revolutionary band, not just musically, but politically. They were the house band, so to speak, of the White Panther Party. John Sinclair is the guy calling for revolution in their first album.

At the Democratic Convention in Chicago in 1968 they performed at the protests, the same sort of protests Escopeta is dissing on this thread.

'Brothers and Sisters
I wanna see a sea of hands out there.
Let me see a sea of hands.
I want everybody to kick up some noise.
I wanna hear some revolution out there, brothers
I wanna hear a little revolution.
Brothers and sisters, the time has come
For each and every one of you to decide
Whether you are gonna be the problem,
Or whether you are gonna be the solution.
You must choose, brothers, you must choose.
It takes 5 seconds, 5 seconds of decision.
Five seconds to realize that it's time to move.
It's time to get down with it.
Brothers, it's time to testify and I want to know,
Are you ready to testify?
Are you ready?
I GIVE YOU A TESTIMONIAL, THE MC5 !!!!'

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Coach37

Social climber
Philly
Jun 15, 2016 - 11:18am PT
"App...respectfully. How in the Sam Heck would YOU know what these bands believe in????"

I mean, it's almost as if they loudly yelled/sung such beliefs, or talked about them in print media or played at certain events something. Why, you'd almost think they were a band or, or

hey, wait a minute !
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Jun 15, 2016 - 11:39am PT
Escopeta, apogee was correct old thick thumbs and spell check make it tough for me on the phone. Easy to tell the viewpoint of most of the bands. Come on get real.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 15, 2016 - 11:45am PT
Got it, but what does that have to do with your boy Trump?
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Jun 15, 2016 - 11:48am PT
Sorry, way over your head. That is a drawing of Iggy I own by Tomata Du Plenty.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 15, 2016 - 11:50am PT
I saw that, its cool.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 15, 2016 - 11:59am PT
Sorry, way over your head. That is a drawing of Iggy I own by Tomata Du Plenty.

Obviously interpretive
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 15, 2016 - 12:25pm PT
Gary.... I do Know who the MC5 is / was ..... got some of their vinyl :>) great stuff, it gets played at my home.

but I think its a mistake to assume, that biased on a bands lyrics you KNOW how they feel NOW about something political in nature.

How about Ted Nugent? Who do you think he promotes?

Do you think someone who has ...lets say 36,000,000 in the bank will definitely be a Bernie supporter?

I have found that people change from all that commie crapola when they have tons of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Lets ask Metallica, OK?

Mark Farner, ask him.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 15, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
Trump's campaign act is so weak, he is vulnerable even to 13-year old comics.


http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/America-s-Got-Talent-13-Year-Old-Comic-8131810.php

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 15, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
Rare golden mole caught on camera looks just like Donald Trump's hair

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/rare-golden-mole-caught-on-camera-looks-just-like-donald-trumps/

Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 15, 2016 - 01:06pm PT
but I think its a mistake to assume, that biased on a bands lyrics you KNOW how they feel NOW about something political in nature.

Fair enough.
jstan

climber
Jun 15, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
Trump's campaign act is so weak, he is vulnerable even to 13-year old comics.

Not a problem if the electorate is composed effectively of four year olds.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 15, 2016 - 01:43pm PT
^^^^^^^ NICE
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 15, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
The Muslims have to work with us,” Trump said. “They know what’s going on.” They knew, he claimed, that the Orlando shooter “was bad.” “They knew the people in San Bernadino were bad. But you know what? They didn’t turn them in. And you know what? We had death and destruction.”

what a bullshit comment.
How would this change under trump?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 15, 2016 - 02:27pm PT

Jun 15, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
The Muslims have to work with us,” Trump said. “They know what’s going on.” They knew, he claimed, that the Orlando shooter “was bad.” “They knew the people in San Bernadino were bad. But you know what? They didn’t turn them in. And you know what? We had death and destruction.”

what a bullshit comment.
How would this change under trump?

Because Trump said he would prosecute Americans who would not
report their neighbors if they noticed "suspicious activity"
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 15, 2016 - 02:37pm PT
Because Trump said he would prosecute Americans who would not
report their neighbors if they noticed "suspicious activity"

then drumpf will have to define "suspicious activity"
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 15, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
Oh, you mean the kind of "suspicious activity" that a bunch of you retards think should qualify a person for a secret list that exempts them from constitutional protection?

The hypocrisy is getting pretty deep around here....
F

climber
away from the ground
Jun 15, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
FREEDOM!!!!!!!!11!!!
Norton

Social climber
Jun 15, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
Oh, you mean the kind of "suspicious activity"

he's your boy why don't you ask him WTF he means?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 15, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
"...but I think its a mistake to assume, that biased on a bands lyrics you KNOW how they feel NOW about something political in nature."

I'd be willing to bet good beer that the majority of the bands who called for social justice in their heydays have abandoned or flipped those causes altogether. In any case, Esco's use of those band logos represent those bands at that time.

I remain dubious that Esco has any real idea of the ideologies of those bands (in their heydays)...most of the time, Esco spouts off in the opposite direction.


"How about Ted Nugent? Who do you think he promotes?

Do you think someone who has ...lets say 36,000,000 in the bank will definitely be a Bernie supporter? "

Ummmm...Nugent was a tarzanning gun nut misogynist waaaaay before he put the first million in the bank.

Wang Dang Sweet Poontang Cat Scratch Fever?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 15, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
I think I heard Hillary say that anyone being investigated by the FBI should be on the terrorist watch list and not be allowed to purchase a gun.


Wait, what? Hahahahahaha
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 15, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
Wang Dang Sweet Poontang


The guitar solo on that one is pretty epic, especially because it's from the pre-Halenic era.

Norton

Social climber
Jun 15, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
Translation

When "EdwardT" reads something he is not capable of understanding

instead of educating himself, he goes third grade, throws a little tantrum

and calls the author of what he read a name
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 15, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
So, this thread has passed the Mind thread in posts. There's some good news.

And Colbert has it figured out...

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 15, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
^^^^^^ ++++++

The best part is the audience immediately got the joke, and Colbert all but said, "Wait for it!" while he ran it out.



zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 15, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
So, this thread has passed the Mind thread in posts

Can it be deleted now?

Thanks in advance.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 15, 2016 - 08:50pm PT
The loud mouthed as#@&%e is doubling down on his claim that Obama is an Isis sympathizer:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-pushes-conspiracy-theory-obama-supports-isis/story?id=39877503

Keep it up, pal. That big "U" on your forehead for "Unfit" keeps getting bigger.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 15, 2016 - 09:06pm PT
I bet Trump is having a good laugh at the confused line- up of Republicans he beat to win the nomination...I have to give him credit for playing his constituents like a fiddle...Remember how Romney's team was all c*#k - sure about beating Obama and then got his ass handed to him...? I'd be very suprised if Trump does any better than Romney ...
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 15, 2016 - 09:25pm PT
Trump is done.. The only chance Republicans have is in a month when they can basically impeach him and choose a different candidate at the convention.

They have to do it.. no choice..well yeah there is a choice...basically forfeit the presidential election and probably lose the senate. Maybe even the House.

Kicking trump out will still almost certainly lose the presidency but they would have a strong chance to retain congress.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 15, 2016 - 09:27pm PT
Trump is done.. The only chance Republicans have is in a month when they can basically impeach him and choose a different candidate at the convention.

They have to do it.. no choice..well yeah there is a choice...basically forfeit the presidential election and probably lose the senate. Maybe even the House.

Kicking trump out will still almost certainly lose the presidency but they would have a strong chance to retain congress.

Trump candidacy may be the best thing to happen to America in a long time.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 15, 2016 - 09:35pm PT
I think the effects will go beyond this election.

The Republican Party--not just the trump or his followers--but most of the leadership--has completely capitulated to a raging, open bigot.

People will remember this. They've really blown it.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 15, 2016 - 09:39pm PT
Guess I'm being a little snarky above, In reality it's all very sad. The only good I can see is if this helps the republican party go back to honest conservatism. Right now one of the big problems is the Limbaugh level insanity that is the core of the republican party.. such that no reasonable candidate can win a primary.

We need two opposing reasonable and loyal viewpoints.. at least two.. and people dedicated to the best interests of the general population.

Currently that does not describe American politics at all.. SAD
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 15, 2016 - 09:42pm PT

Trump candidacy may be the best thing to happen to America in a long time.

^^^i think so too.

especially if your into change.

which if you remember was the chant for Obama's run. now we're to believe Billary will continue the change from the ol'white guys?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 15, 2016 - 09:43pm PT
You're right, though, climbski2. On a national level, that party abandoned any commitment to governing long ago. They've ignored facts, and completely catered to cranks and bigots. They need a major shake up.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 15, 2016 - 09:45pm PT

Ready for Donald ?

#AskTheGays
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 15, 2016 - 09:50pm PT
Honest conservatism is a dinosaur...With trump it's all about sex , money , and hate...fits well with the new America...
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jun 15, 2016 - 10:37pm PT
Nita already posted this, but it bears repeating:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 15, 2016 - 10:59pm PT
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 16, 2016 - 03:31am PT
they can basically impeach him and choose a different candidate at the convention.


Impeachment is a process against someone already in office, and it is a preliminary proceeding before a trial. It is analogous to an indictment.

Trump can't be impeached until he is in office. And, if he is elected and then impeached by the House, he must then stand trial in the Senate (c.f. Clinton and the Blue Dress).



It would be a wonderful circus for Trump to somehow win, and then be impeached on inauguration day, six minutes after being sworn into office.

Priceless.




Then, the Gin Grinch would become President . . . . . . . . . . not so priceless.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 16, 2016 - 05:04am PT
How about a little humor to start your day.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jun 16, 2016 - 05:13am PT
Trump's Twitter account may put the National Enquirer out of business.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 16, 2016 - 05:29am PT
How about a little humor to start your day.

That kid is great!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 16, 2016 - 07:19am PT
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 16, 2016 - 07:56am PT

It would be a wonderful circus for Trump to somehow win, and then be impeached on inauguration day, six minutes after being sworn into office.

Priceless.

Then, the Gin Grinch would become President . . . . . . . . . . not so priceless.

I actually think that if trump were to be elected he won't serve a full term. . . . . . .
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 16, 2016 - 07:57am PT
Edward,

Hilarious!!!!
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jun 16, 2016 - 08:02am PT
I actually think that if trump were to be elected he won't serve a full term. . . . . . .

Totally agree. 400+ reps and 100 senators just won't lock step to his tune.
Everyone complains about exec orders now....HA! If he were in office!!!


Susan
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 16, 2016 - 08:21am PT
He won't make it past the convention is my prediction
more than half of the Republicans hate him, and that half consists of the Republicans in Charge
They could just boot his ass at the convention, or maybe his numbers will be so bad by then that they have no choice but let him go

which would change everything

suppose they put up Scott Walker

The Dems would have to totally recalibrate their campaign

That $10 bet is looking good for me right now.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 16, 2016 - 08:53am PT
Radical Trumpist threatens inebriates with his big gun. Skates.

At around 10 p.m., a neighbor reportedly witnessed a group of four friends who had been walking down a sidewalk in the 100 block of West Juniper Street meddling with the campaign sign. The friends appeared to have been drinking.

Witnesses told San Diego police, the neighbor allegedly exited his home with a rifle and threatened the group using profanity. At one point he allegedly told them, “I’ve been waiting to use this.”

...

Police arrived and questioned the man. They then transported him down to SDPD headquarters for more questioning. He was allowed to return home and was not arrested.

No names were released and there were no reported injuries.

When 10News spoke to the neighbor early Thursday morning after he’d returned from police headquarters, he claimed our crew was at the wrong home. He alleged someone who looks identical to him lives down the street.




This sort of thing cost the Santa Monica wannabee shooter/bomber (non radical Islamist) a year in Indiana.



You can be convicted of brandishing a weapon, or firearm, under CA Penal Code 417[1], if you draw or exhibit a weapon in a rude, threatening, or angry manner.

In order to be convicted of the crime the prosecutor must prove the three elements of the crime:

That you drew or exhibited a deadly weapon in the presence of another
That you did so either in a rude, threatening or angry manner, or during a fight
That you did not do so while acting in self-defense or in the defense of another
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 16, 2016 - 09:04am PT
Speaking of Trump, he claims he has a secret plan for decimating ISIS.

If he were a true patriot, rather than a high school military school graduate draft dodger, wouldn't he request a private audience with Obama (the guy who is too stupid to figger it out) and explain to him how it is done? He could then concentrate on his "service" by continuing to avoid STD's.

I'm sure Obama wouldn't blab.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 16, 2016 - 09:22am PT
"I think the effects will go beyond this election."

I seriously doubt it, at least I doubt there will be any real, deep changes in the GOP as a result of the Trump debacle.

Nope...this has happened before, not that long ago actually- the GOP got its election ass kicked in '08 with their ridiculous VP candidate, and not a damn thing changed...except they got worse. A much more dramatic implosion is going to be necessary before any real change is gonna happen.

How's that hopey-changey thing working for you, GOP?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 16, 2016 - 09:33am PT
GOP Operative sites the obvious, endorsing Trump will be seen as a Toxic stain on your permanent record


Rick Wilson
✔ ‎@TheRickWilson

10/ Your resumes will always read "Worked for a batshit crazy crypto-fascist who destroyed the GOP"
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 16, 2016 - 09:49am PT
zBrown, Trump isn't going to reveal his (imaginary) secret ISIS plan to Obama, or to anyone else.

He is a cut-throat businessman, and the number one rule is: play it close to the vest, never let anyone know what you are thinking, hide the secret formula in a vault, and use the hidden knowledge to your advantage.

Even in a court of law, under penalty of perjury, Trump doesn't divulge all the relevant facts. He doles out a few inane details, just enough to keep him out of jail for contempt. He also rides the perjury line very close to the edge. One time, under oath during a lawsuit deposition, he stated that his financial net worth varies according to his mood.



Trump won't divulge his secret ISIS obliteration fantasy any more than he will divulge his IRS tax forms.

Believe me. Let me tell you. I promise.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 16, 2016 - 09:57am PT
I really hope he doesn't get the boot at the GOP convention...in order for this vast mess to achieve its full effect, Trump needs to be the GOP's candidate, all the way to the ballot box.

At which time, he'll get his ass completely and utterly destroyed. It would be in the best interest of the Country, the GOP, and whether he knows it or not, The Donald.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 16, 2016 - 10:26am PT
Trump's outsized, lunatic rhetoric resonates with his sub-IQ followers. They listen to the Donald and then they act on the demented blatherings that come out of his big orange mouth. They (erroneously) think that if the World's Number One D#@&%e behaves in a certain way, then they should follow his leadership by example, and behave the same way.


Here's the latest:

Trump famously told an attorney who wanted to pump breast milk, "You're disgusting!"


Yesterday, some idiot used those exact words to harass and distress a woman breastfeeding her baby at a Target store in Connecticut. She filmed the incident, and it has gone viral. Target employees had to come the aid and rescue of the distraught and sobbing woman being verbally attacked by the Trump-clone dullard.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/06/16/new-mom-verbally-attacked-breastfeeding-public-target-connecticut/85972164/




Trump's lack of a social filter is a contagious social disease that is afflicting America.

There is a veritable epidemic of mental illness in America today, and Trump's bizarre outbursts and his self-professed superior leadership skills greatly exacerbate the situation.

Trump grants permission to his disturbed followers to abandon social decorum and self-restraint, and to take action according to their formerly suppressed anti-social urges.



Way to go, Mister Leader.

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 16, 2016 - 11:02am PT
At which time, he'll get his ass completely and utterly destroyed.

yeah, but I don't see trump conceding. He'll complain that the election was rigged by "crooked Hillary".
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 16, 2016 - 11:04am PT
English MP murdered over Brexit - exactly the sort of violence donald implicitly and explicitly foments and incites.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 16, 2016 - 11:20am PT
yeah, but I don't see trump conceding. He'll complain that the election was rigged by "crooked Hillary".

They could settle it in front of a Republican dominated Supreme Court.



Oh, wait.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 16, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
"exactly the sort of violence donald implicitly and explicitly foments and incites."


The GOP musta genuinely thought they could redirect the rabid whacknuts who are following Trump in the same way they thought they could harness the Tea Party. Hmmm.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 16, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
The Trump supporters say they aren't stupid or racists

Why should we believe them?

They don't act smart or do smart things like smart people
They believe lies and anti-science propaganda
They support stupid things that are proven to not work

They support loud mouth obnoxious mouth breathers that lie and spew hate without question
and when asked why, they are apologetic for his behavior, "he's not that bad"

half of the population has less than 100 point IQ,
most of these low IQ folks support Trump and not Hillary

It all follows a likely conclusion
They are not that smart.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 16, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
The drumpfster who was offended by that woman breast feeding her child needs a chair across the head. Maybe that would jump start his brain. He needs to lay off the Target cuisine as well, based on that gut slumping over the waist of his pants. Haha, November's slaughter of drumpf will be a moment of high hilarity, especially when he's contesting Clinton's landslide victory.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 16, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
"I think the effects will go beyond this election."

I seriously doubt it, at least I doubt there will be any real, deep changes in the GOP as a result of the Trump debacle.

Apogee, I meant with respect to the electorate. Many people will likely never vote for that party again. For example, 20 years after prop 187 republicans are still in the wilderness in California after alienating Hispanics.

It will probably take more than one election for a serious change to happen in the party. The problem is that there aren't enough nativist or traditional conservatives to be able to win elections separately. Of course, the other problem is that they seem thoroughly sick of each other.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 16, 2016 - 02:23pm PT
Craig - if one is not smart enough they have no ability to realize they are not smart nor determine they are a racist. But you already know this...
dirtbag

climber
Jun 16, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
Lee Atwater, 1981

Trump doesn't do abstract.

Are you trying to tell us that (gasp!) republicans have been race baiting the electorate for decades?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 16, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell have both called out to Trump to tone down the blustery blathering, gather some facts, and speak to the public like a rational, controlled human being.

Trump's campaign spokesman's response:

I wish they would just shut the hell up



Trump's own statement sounds like something heard in Wavy Gravy's 1969 Woodstock hospital tent for people riding out bad LSD trips:


“Our leaders have to get a lot tougher, and be quiet. Just please be quiet,” Trump said. “Don’t talk. Please, be quiet. Just be quiet, to the leaders, because they have to get tougher, they have to get sharper, they have to get smarter, and we have to have our Republicans either stick together or let me just do it by myself.”


https://www.yahoo.com/news/paul-ryan-says-americans-lose-000000033.html




Let me just do it by myself - - - Donald Trump, 6-16-16




When he was a child, Trump's father told Donald, "You are a King" (c.f. Trump wikipedia article, etc.).


Apparently, this bit of playful parental praise lodged securely in Trump's brain. Over the years, the statement has worn a deeper and deeper groove into the cortex, and it has now taken on a life of its own.


Trump's plan is for Congress (and the Judiciary) to step aside and grant him Caesar-like absolute powers over the United States.






And, now I'm gonna say it again:

I predict Trump will have an epiphany that his delusional grab for power is absurd and ludicrous, and he will stomp off in a huff, claiming that he is a victim of a world that is conspiring against him.

He will reimburse himself for his personal campaign loans from contributions, and then he will drop out of the presidential race right before the convention.



When he finally dies, I hope his family has his brain examined for CTE. He certainly shows the symptoms, and he has the aggressive athletic history to account for them. A post-mortem autopsy is the only way to properly diagnose CTE. Odd, bizarre behavior and unreasonable outbursts are indicative, but not definitive, in a pre-mortem diagnosis of CTE.


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 16, 2016 - 02:55pm PT
"House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell have both called out to Trump to tone down the blustery blathering, gather some facts, and speak to the public like a rational, controlled human being."


Uh, yeah....good luck with that.


Tom, your Trump exit strategy theory is sounding a lot more plausible.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 16, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 16, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
As I understand it, Trump can reimburse his personal campaign loans from general campaign funds (i.e. other people's contributions) up until the national convention (beginnging? end?). After that, the loans are considered contributions, and he would have to share any leftover campaign money pro rata among all donors, and not just take the lion's share off the top for himself.



But Trump is a serious money addict.

The loan issue is a primary, fundamental motive for Trump to make the go-or-no-go decision right before the convention. If he realizes he has no chance to win, the businessman in him will say, "What's the point? Quit while ahead. Get the money. Go to Mar-a-Lago."


Because Trump remains obstinate and intractable, he's at odds with the rest of the Republican Party. He's expecting a small army of other politicians to modify their positions to accommodate his singular, twisted vision for America. Those other Party members are gaining in solidarity; they are not acquiescing to Trump's bluster.


Trump has placed himself into the following predicament: either continue senseless and destructive conflicts with other members of his political party, or admit that he is wrong.

ZZZZZZT!

Sorry, not gonna happen.



When Trump's fifth-grade son, Baron, explains to him how the U.S. government works, with three branches, a separation of powers, the President is not a king, etc., etc., Trump will rapidly blink 6 times, then rapidly blink 6 more times, then rapidly blink 6 more times, and then bellow at the top of his lungs, "THAT'S FOR LOSERS!" and then stomp off towards the Trump Tower lobby to make the conjugate announcement to the one that he made, in that same place, last year.



Melania will be crying, but she'll get over it.

dirtbag

climber
Jun 16, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
This is your man, pud, pyro, and guyman, mocking a disabled reporter.

Real tough guy, huh?

Yeah, this takes balls...





Norton

Social climber
Jun 16, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
Richard Armitage, the deputy secretary of state under George W. Bush, says he will vote for Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump, in one of the most dramatic signs yet that Republican national security elites are rejecting their party’s presumptive nominee.


Armitage, a retired Navy officer who also served as an assistant secretary of defense under Ronald Reagan, is thought by Clinton aides to be the highest-ranking former GOP national security official to openly support Clinton over Trump.

If Donald Trump is the nominee, I would vote for Hillary Clinton,” Armitage told POLITICO in a brief interview. “He doesn't appear to be a Republican, he doesn't appear to want to learn about issues. So, I’m going to vote for Mrs. Clinton.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/richard-armitage-endorses-clinton-224431
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 16, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
I found the Cheeto Jesus thing that GCF mentioned a few posts back.


I am amused by people misusing Twitter to communicate lengthy, elaborate diatribes to the public.

Twitter was supposed to limit people to 140 characters; later pictures could be uploaded to Twitter.


Now, instead of using a more appropriate venue, like an online forum, or a personal blog, or a letter to the editor, people will post a dozen, two dozen, or even more twitter bursts in machine-gun succession.


They're calling the Cheeto Jesus series of twitter postings an EPIC TWEETSTORM.



Wilson has continued to launch fiery (and profanity-laced) tirades against the presumptive GOP nominee and the party poobahs backing him. On Wednesday night, he unleashed an epic tweetstorm, denouncing Republican National Committee staffers for working to get Trump elected. "You own this," he warned. "You're covered in his stench." In the course of his Twitter rant, Wilson coined a new nickname for Trump, "Cheeto Jesus," which fast became a meme.



http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/rick-wilson-epic-never-trump-tweetstorm




Where is Franz Kafka, now that we need him to make sense of all this?

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 16, 2016 - 04:15pm PT
It's in the best interest of the Democrats if Trump doesn't exit or get the boot at the RNC.

If he exits for whatever reason, the replacement will be greeted with all kinds of Republican 'phew!' enthusiasm. A candidate like Paul Ryan could step in and sweep against a low-approval candidate like Hillary.

Might sound a little conspiratorial, but I can't help but wonder if that strategy isn't being crafted in the smoke-filled back rooms of the GOP.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 16, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
^^^^^^^ there ya go, right there.


Trump may have been fellating the Koch brothers from day one.


Trump's money addiction would be in perfect synch with the Kochs' desire to hire the services of such a talented whore.

Of course, the Koch brothers deny any connection to Trump, but what sort of man goes about town boasting about winning the affections of a sewer-rat hooker?






This is an unusual phrase. It's not taught in today's public schools:


You can't elide over his utter dipshittery.

— Rick Wilson (@TheRickWilson) June 16, 2016


crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 16, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
There's been some who wonder if this clown really wants the job. Is he trying to lose? It could be argued he got into this to increase the value of his brand and, low and behold, the crazy base bought it. He's not really running a campaign of any kind, basically, he's just sending messages on Twitter and doing a creepy 1-hour standup routine in airport hangers.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 16, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
"Is he trying to lose?"


See: 'Koch brothers fellating'
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 16, 2016 - 04:44pm PT
Too late. Attila the Hun is voting for Hillary.

Whttp://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/24/charles-koch-says-he-could-possibly-support-hillary-clinton/?_r=0
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 16, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
There's an interesting article in Slate with former Apprentice crew members discussing Trump. Read it and learn what our next President is like......


“He was always very open about describing women by their breast size. Any time I see people in the Trump organization say how nice he is, I want to throw up. He’s been a nasty person to women for a long time,” says one crew member. “My girlfriend at the time was a production assistant on the show and he made a comment about her, knowing that he was mic’d and that we’d all hear it. He said, ‘Who’s that hot little girl running around?’ For a second I was like, Cool, Donald Trump thinks my girlfriend is hot. But then I was like, Wait, an old man said something about my 28-year-old girlfriend. Take it easy, homeboy.”

“He would talk about the female contestants’ bodies a lot from the control room,” recalls one midlevel producer. “We shot in Trump Tower, the control room was on the seventh floor, and he walked in one day and was talking about a contestant, saying, ‘Her breasts were so much bigger at the casting. Maybe she had her period then.’ He knows he’s mic’d and that 30 people are hearing this, but he didn’t care. That’s kind of him. During the campaign, when he was talking about Megyn Kelly, I thought: He’s obsessed with menstruation.”

The article can be found here: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/06/apprentice_crew_members_on_their_old_boss_donald_trump.html
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 16, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
my fingers are crossed he doesn't drop out right before the convention. that would be mean. I don't like mean.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 16, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
What a dick! Hell, he's so much of a dick he's a veritable insult even to the likes of Nixon and Cheney.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 16, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
The McCain-Feingold campaign reform law says that campaign loans can only be paid back within 20 days after an election, and only from funds associated with that specific election.

The law treats the primary, at the convention, as one election (the winner is the candidate), and the general election in November as a separate election.




So, if Trump want's his $40 million dollar loans repaid, he has to do it right after the convention. He can't be repaid with funds donated for use in the general election.


This is why Trump has accelerated his fund-raising, and has fully abandoned his earlier, magnanimous and maverick position of remaining independent, and not taking money.

That key element of his campaign platform has been conveniently discarded, in the manner that a used car salesman conveniently changes out new tires for worn ones as soon as the sales contract has been signed.




I'm not raising money for myself. I am raising money for the Party - Douchy Drumpfkopf


He has no intention of having those loans repaid - Corey "Neidermeyer" Lowandowski




From Day One, his campaign website has had a big, prominent DONATE button.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 16, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
Amy Walter, of the Cook Political Report, shoots down the idea he'll be dumped...

Trump Will Be the Nominee. Period.

This election year has been rife with conspiracy theories. Most of them, of course, have been peddled by Donald Trump. The most recent - that Trump is somehow going to be denied the nomination in Cleveland - comes from establishment and inside-the-Beltway types who should know better.

In the wake of recent polling showing a “Trump slump” and record high disapproval ratings (he hit 70 percent unfavorable in the Washington Post/ABC News poll), the “establishment” Twitter-verse has exploded with the theories of how Trump will be dumped by his party before the RNC convention in July. I have heard the same version of this theory from otherwise rational, politically deft insiders on the left. I talked with a high-ranking Democrat the other night who joked, with a level of seriousness that surprised me, that Trump will be pulled from the ballot before the fall, leaving the GOP with a stronger candidate to face Hillary Clinton. Surely, goes the thinking of these theorists, GOP voters can’t look at these numbers and think that Trump can still win? Well, yes, actually, they do.

As someone who sometimes gets caught in the insulated allure of Twitter, it’s important for me and those of us who spend our days inside the campaign machine, to remember who and what “normal” voters are. Most voters don’t look at the RealClearPolitics polling averages. Nor do they spend their day digging through cross-tabs and the Electoral College map. More important, if we learned anything from this primary campaign season, it’s that a big chunk of the GOP base is voting against everything that the GOP leadership stands for. They didn’t accept the premise of the 2013 RNC Autopsy that “we must embrace and champion comprehensive immigration reform” – but actively and knowingly supported a candidate who argued that we should deport immigrants and build a wall to keep them out. They don’t like, trust, or believe what their leaders or the “MSM” has been peddling. Why would they listen to their entreaties now?

More important, as I have written many times before, an “Anti-Trump” campaign can’t succeed without a “Pro-Another Candidate” to replace him. The most obvious choices to oust Trump at the convention – Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz – have said they aren’t interested in putting up a fight. Leaders of the #NeverTrump movement have failed to produce a third-party option. You can’t have a coup without a replacement. Period.

Finally, more GOP infighting only helps Hillary Clinton. Instead of unifying the party and pivoting to a general election message, Trump has decided to keep picking fights with his GOP detractors and making the race a referendum on his own unfavorable traits instead of Hillary Clinton’s. That is clearly helping her. The latest RealClearPolitics average shows the former Secretary of State with a 6-point lead over Trump. And, more of this infighting and uncertainty will continue to help her.

To those GOPers still thinking/hoping that Trump will “get the message” and suddenly become a more focused and disciplined candidate, I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Here’s the deal, Trump is not going to change. Ever. This is the candidate who won the primaries. This is the candidate you are going to nominate in July. And, this is the candidate who you will have to decide to support or not in November. There’s simply no other option.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jun 16, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
[quote]Too late. Attila the Hun is voting for Hillary.

Whttp://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/24/charles-koch-says-he-could-possibly-support-hillary-clinton/?_r=0[/quote]

i figure that i know way more about the Koch bros than many of you. seeing as i worked for KOCH for a while because I had no other job as a new chemical engineer out of college.

so they might be totally about f*#king you and f*#king me, and f*#king the environment. but they do have their own brand of scruples. everybody does.

they have their own brand of morality and sense of right and wrong. BTW, do not underestimate the mofos, they support pbs. what does that mean? they probably do it to influence the articles that you and i watch.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jun 16, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
it is sad but true that trump is the republican party.

same for hillary though. yes i recognize her experience, but pleeeeease, dont be f*#king stupid enough to believe that she is looking out for your interests or mine.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 16, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
The gop elite didn't realize they were slowly slitting their own wrists as part of the bargain in a sixty year campaign based on bigotry and hate. And by the time they did realize it was too late - the monster had taken on a life of it's own. Happened in Germany twice, in Italy, in Japan, China and now here - it's everything America is supposed to stand against, not embrace.

Only a matter of time before the MP murder happens here with a trump supporter screaming 'America First!!!' instead of 'Britain First!!!'...
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jun 16, 2016 - 10:36pm PT
America's Kim Jong-Il

[Click to View YouTube Video]
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 16, 2016 - 10:50pm PT
Just because the RNC nominates him, doesn't mean he has to accept...

Or that he can't bail before the convention even starts...

Alright. Taking off the tin hat. For now.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 16, 2016 - 11:05pm PT
I think he's pretty caught up in his own game at this point - bailing without a way to save face or someone else to blame would be punishing to his ego over the long haul.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 16, 2016 - 11:18pm PT
He's used to sending, bailing ain't in his vocabulary.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 16, 2016 - 11:21pm PT
Au contraire - bailing (bankruptcy) as a business strategy is how he got here - he's a consummate and professional bailer - but has always had someone else to blame. Not so much in this case at this point.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 16, 2016 - 11:22pm PT
He'll walk away and sue everybody.

It's what he does.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 17, 2016 - 06:49am PT
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 07:02am PT
It takes balls to do this, trump-sized balls with wavy orange pubes:


EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 17, 2016 - 07:30am PT
Norton
Social climber
Jun 15, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
Translation

When "EdwardT" reads something he is not capable of understanding

instead of educating himself, he goes third grade, throws a little tantrum

and calls the author of what he read a name

All that from "derp". LOL

Your point was idiotic. Undeserving of a rebuttal.

Speaking of idiotic, what about your claim of Obama killing more radical Muslims than anyone else in history?

It seems you just make crap up.

And in your latest post you heap praise on Richard Armitage. Funny.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:00am PT
Of course Mr Trump will be nominated. By popular vote he represents the will and spirit of the republican party.

Yall seem to forget the party chose him.

Donald Trump is the republican party. This is how partisan politics works.

It's not complicated.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:20am PT
Of course you would slurp up that nonsense.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:35am PT
Btw, Klimmer, guyman, pyro, bluering: you support an open racist.

Are you guys racist too?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:37am PT
klimmer is completely insane
everything in that above post is complete BS

How can anyone be so gullible to believe such crap.

Obama secretly wants ISIS to kill us all?
That's what he's saying.

must be low IQ thing, which gives someone a lack of discernment and good judgment, and a lack of critical thinking skills
most other Trump supporters have the same characteristics
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:39am PT
Say what ever you want but the reasons were sown long ago by the puppeteer's
Of Ronnie Ray Gun, with his disastrously made foreign policy of giving up & running away.

Then given the complexity of the mess that was made by that failure. We got Bush 1 & 2
From bowing and scraping to holding hands, both Bushes sold out the USA..

Taking a chance that a black, Muslim educated,constitutional lawyers might save or level the playing field got us 8 years of chaos, increased scrutiny of innocent groups, and more terrorists.

Now we will either get the blind woman that no one can trust , or the thin orange skinned blow hard rich kid . Neither is taken seriously by the aggressive adversaries that are gathering on the weakest borders of countries we have treaties with.

When the marshaling of a military force from Putin's Russia is shrouded from the media, not admitting that they are from the old USSR, model of totalitarianism, the threat to world peace , our way of life - our rapidly expiring freedoms are the canary in the coal mine.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:46am PT
I am so sick and tired of hearing about how Obama won't say the words "Radical Islamic Terrorist"

Like if he said the words, magically everything would be different

Who cares, why make such a crap fest about such a stupid issue

It's obvious a fabricated right wing talking point that so many have latched onto about how it's important for some reason.

If your going to debate the issue, tell us honestly how will change anything if he said those words. You can't, because it's all BS.

and what about that f*#ker John McCain??
blaming ISIS on Obama
a new low point for McCain, I sure hope he loses in Nov. he is a beaten down sick old bitter man now, it's time for him to retire

ISIS is a direct outcome of the invasion of Iraq and Paul Brenner sending all of the Iraqi Gov. and Military to the unemployment line.
They became ISIS, we called them insurgents, we lost to them and then Bush pulled the troops in his agreement that he signed in 2008..

dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:48am PT
Whatever you label Osama bin laden, Obama made sure he was dead.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:54am PT
Looks like Elisabeth Warren is on the short list to be Hillary's VP

Will the Hillary haters be able to vote for her with that combo?

Elisabeth is trustworthy and a true Progressive Liberal, it just highlights that Hillary is serious about being a good Liberal President, and most of the right wing lies about her being totally sold out are False.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:59am PT

Jun 17, 2016 - 08:54am PT
Looks like Elisabeth Warren is on the short list to be Hillary's VP

I like Warren a lot, but not sure that's a good idea.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:03am PT
She's coming for your guns, she's coming for your bibles, she's coming for your babies:




Anyway, Craig, Warren would be an electrifying pick for a very cautious politician. I like it.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:10am PT
Lie No. 1
Once again, its only Trump who is brave enough to call it like it is and tell the truth.
Trump is a pathological liar


Lie No. 2
By Obama's weak foreign policy with ISIS and Al Qaeda,
Not weak, he's decimated ISIS in Iraq and Killed Osama bin Laden

Lie No. 3
and his infamously and disastrous wrong treaty with Iran,
super good treaty

Lie No. 4
Now he and Hillary want to allow un-vetted refugees in by the thousands and already ISIS and Al Qaeda have said they will infiltrate the immigration movements.
the refugees are vetted and not dangerous

No. 5
Hillary's right hand woman has been Huma Abedin who has strong ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and more.
Pure crazy talk

Lie No. 6
Apparently they only want terrorists to have guns. Wow, that would make it pretty easy for the ultimate goals of the terrorists, now wouldn't it?
WTF? they want them to have only guns??, No, Obama want's them to use 757s instead, right? complete insanity

There you go Klimmer, point by point
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:16am PT
He's voting for a racist.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:17am PT
Dirtbag said...
Btw, Klimmer, guyman, pyro, bluering: you support an open racist.

Are you guys racist too?


Dirt you are a complete idiot... you don't know me, and I am quite happy with that situation. Your on-line persona is one of a tiny biting little dog, who eats turds with gusto.

I fart in your general direction...............

in the words of the late great Warren Harding, I say to you "bugger off baby"


good day
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:18am PT
I wish Trump's hair was a left....
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:19am PT
Ok, I take it you're not a racist. I actually didn't think so.

But you are supporting an open racist.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:20am PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:28am PT
"But you are supporting an open racist."


Yep...and silence = acceptance, and a vote = approval
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:32am PT
Ok, I take it you're not a racist. I actually didn't think so.

But you are supporting an open racist.

Well Dirt, as you know, there is only one true way to determine a racist. Logically racists float when thrown in water, but what else floats?Ducks!!! We must capture these racists and weigh them!, if they weigh the same as the duck, we know they are not racists' BUT,if they weigh different than the duck, WE HAVE RACISTS AND THEY MUST BURNED LIKE WITCHES
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:34am PT
I'm not sure what your point is, but apogee summed up my view quite well.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:44am PT
Can't seem to answer that simple question, can you, trailridge?

Very telling indeed.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:45am PT
Sooooooo..... Dirt, App... and the rest..


Your supporting a active Thief, influence peddler, supporter of people who toss Gays off of tall buildings, opportunist of the first magnitude, who has and will sell us out for some coin. Someone who has proven to be a master of twisting the law... someone who says the enemy is Republicans ....an enabler of a rapist and a down right horrible person to all of the brave men and women who serve our nation.....

Yes I think despite all his flaws- and there are many- that Trump would be better than Hillery Clinton hands down.

I think we still live in a Free Nation and I don't need to justify my beliefs to you.

good day

trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:48am PT
Get him dirt!!! He is a racist!!!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:50am PT
You guys are dodging the question.

Why are you going to vote for an open racist?


Edit:
"that Hillary would be better than Trump hands down."

That pretty much sums it up for me, guyman.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:50am PT
Guy, nice dodge and list of conjecture and conspiracies about Hillary (none of which have been proven).

Your man said the judge in his case should be disqualified because he is Mexican.

He said this, then doubled down in follow up questions. That's a fact.

This is racist:Are you ok with this?

Are you ok with his dozens of other racist statements?


dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:51am PT
Did you know he mocked a disabled man?


That's not conjecture: he did this. There it is.

Are you ok with this?

trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:57am PT
I'm not sure what your point is, but apogee summed up my view quite well

My point is that your gang resembles exactly that of the Monty Pythons witch hunt. Anyone with different views is clearly wrong or even worse a racist(witch)!!! Your narcissistic closed-mindedness is nauseating and kindof funny,like Monty pythons
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:00am PT
See, you guys are gonna try to flip this around, saying that Hillary is guilty of just as much bad sh#t as Trump.

Well, much of what you consider 'proof' of Hillary's 'guilt' is speculation, and never proven....just like so many politicians, including the ones you regularly vote for. And yet you choose to give your politicians a pass, but crucify the lady on the Left.

Meanwhile, Trump's bad sh#t is incontrovertible, and there are endless, very public examples of his misogyny, racism, xenophobia...hell, the guy is proud of it, and goes out of his way to make it public. Not even the f*#king politicians in his own Party deny this, or want to get behind him.


Why in the world would a reasonable person support that?

Don't like Hillary? Ok, I get that. So stay home on election day- at least you would be consistent with your own values and morality.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:01am PT
Still can't answer that question, eh, trailridge?

So simple. But you just can't answer it. Telling.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:03am PT
So you believe all the right wing lies
Your supporting a active Thief, influence peddler, supporter of people who toss Gays off of tall buildings, opportunist of the first magnitude, who has and will sell us out for some coin. Someone who has proven to be a master of twisting the law... someone who says the enemy is Republicans ....an enabler of a rapist and a down right horrible person to all of the brave men and women who serve our nation.....

That's quite a load of BS

But an enabler of a rapist, now that is pure hate speech.
Why?
you figure it out

oh I'll tell you why, because it's a Lie and it says that Bill was a rapist when he has been never been implicated in a rape other than people lying about it

so now they got you repeating hate speech.


The Republicans ARE the enemy, where have you been?
They wrecked this country, and continue to do nothing except more damage
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:05am PT
TR your man is a know nothing racist with authoritarian tendencies.

He's probably the worst nominee in modern history, and a threat to the country.

Even many (in fact most, if they were being candid) conservatives think so.

Yes, I'm calling out trump supporters because they support this sh#t.

dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:07am PT
How about an action shot of your man?


donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:15am PT
Don't argue with Trump supporters. If they still support him and they haven't been living incommunicado in a cave, they are too deranged to reason with. Oh, I forgot....for Trump supporters reason has never been a factor.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:16am PT
I answered it for you! Your are on witch hunt. And for the record I am not a trump supporter nor a Hillary supporter. They are both criminals in my book. I just find it fascinating how similar the far right is with the far left.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:19am PT
Boohoohoo...

Donini: yeah you're right.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:29am PT
"Your are on witch hunt."

No, just asking a simple question.

Why are you going to vote for an open racist?




Honestly, I don't think most of the ST Republicans are racists, but I just want to understand why they would choose to vote for one, against their own morality.

Is it simply because a vote for Trump will be a vote against Hillary?

Man, that's sad that you'd have so much hatred for a candidate that you'd go against your own morality to vote against them. Weird.


10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:39am PT
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/283880-goldwaters-widow-barry-would-be-appalled-by-trump
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:42am PT
What's worse a 'bitch' or a 'bigot'?

Taylor Swift calls Kim Kardashian a liar, says 'just leave me alone'


http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/17/entertainment/taylor-swift-kim-kardashian-gq/index.html

The Grammy-winner has taken issue with Kardashian's bombshell interview in the July issue of "GQ," where she claims that Swift knew all along that Kanye West would be calling her "that b**ch" in his song "Famous."
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:54am PT
Maybe they'll make up then make out?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:02am PT
Maybe they'll make up then make out?


stellar if video
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:16am PT
This thread is so awesome.

Dirtbag's favorite pic... the one of the spastic guy... just hit 40 posts.

Posts with word racist are approaching 300.

It's all so intellectual.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:22am PT
Why are you voting for an open racist, EdwardT?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:23am PT

add this to your list
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:24am PT
Don't argue with Trump supporters. If they still support him and they haven't been living incommunicado in a cave, they are too deranged to reason with. Oh, I forgot....for Trump supporters reason has never been a factor.

I don't argue with them, I love them. Trump has been the best thing to happen to American politics in decades. Because of Trump, Republicans are now worried about even hanging onto control of the House of Representatives. Go Trump.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-17/republicans-should-worry-about-losing-the-house

Curt
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:26am PT
I just find it fascinating how similar the far right is with the far left.


I find it fascinating that you could so wrong about something you believe is correct.

Were the Hitler haters the same as the Hitler supporters?
why not?
I thought they'll the same?

The difference is that one side is tyrannical, the other side is trying to keep the tyranny from getting power.

Hitler supporters were all right wingers, they love tyrannical rulers, just like the Trump supporters.
The people trying to keep Hitler from taking power were the left wingers.
They wanted a free democracy, like the Hillary supporters.

So you think the Hitler haters should have just shut up and let him do whatever he wanted. The Hitler haters were the same, they would have made the same mess if they killed Hitler off. That's the logic your using.

Can you see the difference yet?
Or do need more explaining
Norton

Social climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:41am PT
Here is the strange and beautiful thing about the Trump supporters

They do not realize that by supporting and voting for the absolute worst Republican to face Hillary Clinton that they hand not only the Presidency to her but also the US Senate and put the House in play.

A smart Republican would want the strongest candidate to go against the Dems, Kasish would be most moderate and best but he is not extreme or manly enough.

Lets be thankful that the depth of the human gene pool supports the reality TV Star.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:43am PT
the one of the spastic guy


Classy...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:45am PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Jun 17, 2016 - 11:22am PT
Why are you voting for an open racist, EdwardT?

Why are you a racist, Apogee?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:47am PT
Hey Bigot Milktoast,
Learn to take criticism or else grow a thicker skin.

Can I get another selfie?



Hey I din't make this up...

big·ot·ry n.
intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.


Remember, there's (a) reasonable criticism and (b) unreasonable criticism. You need to do a better job distinguishing them. Imo. of course.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:49am PT
Hillary Clinton Received Secret Memo Stating Obama Admin ‘Support’ for ISIS

I don't suppose you noticed that the word "support" is qualified in the headline above, did you? Do you think that the Administration wasn't aware that some of the groups opposing the Syrian regime were bad guys? Do you really think this is news of any kind?

Curt
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:51am PT
I just find it fascinating how similar the far right is with the far left.

It's like they're competing to see who is the most intolerant. Most hateful.

"I'm not intolerant. It's those narrow-minded scumbags over there!"
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:52am PT
You don't have a problem with our Obama administration supporting ISIS?

They didn't.

Curt
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 17, 2016 - 12:03pm PT
Klimmer posted a link to an article written by Erik Prince.

This guy is a real piece of work. He's an entitled, elitist mercenary warrior that Trump would enjoy having as his Secretary of Defense. In his article, he claims that Obama and Clinton are responsible for ISIS (and not Bush, Cheney and himself, as the aggressors in the Iraq war).



Erik Prince inherited a vast fortune (automobile parts), and has been spending it on various mercenary expeditions and paramilitary organizations all around the world.


Erik Prince started Blackwater USA, a private security company which obtained huge, no-bid contracts to provide security to American personnel in Afghanistan and Iraq. The company was famously banned by those nations for committing war crimes. Blackwater simply changed its name to XE Services, and continued operations there as before. A few years later, the company changed its name again, to Academi, to further evade public scrutiny.



Erik Prince left the United States, to live in Dubai. He had been hired to establish a private mercenary military force comprised of seasoned Columbian guerilla soldiers. A walled fortress city was built out in the middle of the desert, and the mercenary troops were brought in clandestinely. They train out of view of the public, and little information about them is voluntarily given to the press. Apparently, the mercenary troops are not allowed to leave the fortified compound, except during officially sanctioned and supervised excursions to local brothels.


Erik Prince is currently being investigated for money laundering, and for his close ties to Chinese intelligence agencies and operatives. He is also being investigated for brokering mercenary services in various military conflicts.


Prince, Blackwater, employees and cohorts have a long history of illegal activity, investigation, indictment, conviction, etc.




Erik Prince is the poster boy for a horrific, dystopian future wherein wealthy oligarchs and megalomaniacs wield private armies to control the lives of hundreds of millions of people.




Google ERIK PRINCE or BLACKWATER to find many articles about him.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jun 17, 2016 - 12:04pm PT

Meetings, Trump and his Republican followers: http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/a-journalist-went-to-a-donald-trump-rally-yesterday-and-came-back-shocked-here-are-his-tweets/
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 17, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
you don't think the messenger can sometimes influence the message?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 01:10pm PT
Obama is killing 1000s of ISIS troops every year

so your information is WRONG

he does not support them, that is a LIE

everything you post seems to be a lie Klimmer, what's up with that?
are you dabbling in pure evil now?
or maybe evil has taken your soul and transformed it into a peddler of Lies and evil misinformation, just like Trump.

Brietbart is a known propaganda site, everything they post is spun BS
you should know better
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 17, 2016 - 01:12pm PT
Klimmer obviously believes, as all Republicans do, that posting something false over and over again will make it somehow become true. Unfortunately, there's some evidence that this actually works.

Against my better judgement, I will try to help Klimmer out.

1) Did the US back insurgents attempting to topple the Assad regime? - Yes
2) Were Al Queda in Iraq and ISIL also fighting against Assad? - Yes
3) Did we support those groups? - No

The US was actually quite worried that arms provided to moderate insurgent groups might get into the hands of Al Queda or ISIL.

Reality isn't that scary, Klimmer--you should give it a chance.

Curt
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
I just find it fascinating how similar the far right is with the far left.

It's like they're competing to see who is the most intolerant. Most hateful.

"I'm not intolerant. It's those narrow-minded scumbags over there!"


Good lord, talk about false equivalences.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
After you tell them something is wrong, and they come back with the same lie again and again, you have to question their IQ

Like calling Bill Clinton a rapist, how many times has Guyman repeated that lie?
10 times, 20

But of course he can't be bothered to look it up and see if it's factual or not, even after us pointing it out to him.
No, he uses it as a harpoon against Hillary over and over thinking that calling Bill a rapist is good strategy.

All lies will work against you sooner than later.
When you spout a blatant lie over and over, what does that say about you?

There is Google now, all lies will be challenged.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 17, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
Good lord, talk about false equivalences.

And then there's the myopia.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
Dozens of GOP delegates launch new push to halt Donald Trump

By Ed O'Keefe

June 17 at 3:58 PM 

Dozens of Republican convention delegates are hatching a new plan to block Donald Trump at this summer’s party meetings, in what has become the most organized effort so far to stop the businessman from becoming the GOP nominee.

The moves come amid declining poll numbers for Trump and growing concerns among Republicans that Trump is squandering his chance to defeat Democrat Hillary Clinton. Several controversies — including his racial attacks on a federal judge, renewing his call to temporarily ban Muslims from entering the United States and support for changing the nation’s gun laws — have raised concerns among Republicans that Trump is not really a conservative and is too reckless to run a successful race.

Given the strife, a growing group of anti-Trump delegates are convinced that enough like-minded Republicans will band together in the next month to change party rules and allow delegates to vote for whomever they want, regardless of who won state caucuses and primaries.

The new push is being run by the only people who can actually make changes to party rules, rather than by pundits and media figures who have been pining for a Trump alternative. Many of the delegates involved supported Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas in the primary but say they are not taking cues from any of Trump’s vanquished opponents.

“This literally is an ‘Anybody but Trump’ movement,” said Kendal Unruh, a Republican delegate from Colorado who is leading the campaign. “Nobody has any idea who is going to step in and be the nominee, but we’re not worried about that. We’re just doing that job to make sure that he’s not the face of our party.”

The new wave of anti-Trump organizing comes as an increasing number of prominent Republicans have signaled they will not support Trump for president.

In addition, House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.), who is slated to chair the Republican National Convention next month in Cleveland, said in remarks released Friday that House Republicans should “follow their conscience” on whether to support Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/dozens-of-gop-delegates-launch-new-push-to-halt-donald-trump/2016/06/17/e8dcf74e-3491-11e6-8758-d58e76e11b12_story.html
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 01:32pm PT

liberalslikechrist.org
some of you fake Christians need a refresher course on the teaching of Jesus, the archetypical Progressive liberal.

All of liberal ideology parallels Jesus's teaching,
whereas the Conservative's ideology is exactly what Jesus railed against back then,

Jesus didn't impose strict rules and incite hate against others, he fought against right wing tyranny
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
.

And then there's the myopia.

And then there's the simplistic, cursory generalization used to explain two very dissimilar things.

It's almost amusing to watch trump supporters get pissed off and defensive over the fact they are supporting a know nothing racist.

Butt hurt? Yes, they are.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 17, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
It's almost amusing to watch trump haters (in this thread) get pissed off and echo same old criticisms day in and day out.

Butt hurt? Yes, they are.

dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
Glad you're amused Edward.

I'm actually pretty f*#king horrified that enough brainless bigots think this know nothing bully is qualified to be a nominee of a major political party.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
That memo Does Not say that Obama is supporting ISIS

maybe you can't read English
Please point out where the memo says that Obama supports ISIS

if you post something that says something other than you say it does, then it means you can't post meaningful information
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 17, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
Getting back on topic, here's another report from a Trump rally; kind of makes me think of good old Klimmer:

TAMPA, FL—Saying they had been so swept up in the excitement of the moment that they hadn’t been paying attention to what they were shouting, the crowd at a Donald Trump rally in Tampa reportedly came to the realization Wednesday that they had been chanting the phrase “We are frightened and helpless” for the past half hour. “Looking back on it now, I guess we all started chanting ‘We’re so, so scared’ as soon as we got into the auditorium, and then when Trump came out onstage, it really picked up and we added the part about feeling completely impotent in the face of change,” said Trump supporter Colby Swanson, 45, who explained that, after thinking back, some attendees had started chanting “Rage is my only outlet” on and off while they were waiting in line to enter the event. “Boy, we were chanting it really loud for a while, especially after Trump said our country doesn’t win anymore and that we shouldn’t let Muslim refugees into the U.S. Come to think of it, towards the end there, I remember just yelling ‘The world has passed me by’ over and over again.” After recognizing their embarrassing blunder, the Trump supporters were said to have collected themselves and returned to their traditional chant of “Build the wall.”

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 17, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
CF... let me ask you something.

Is Bill Cosby a rapist?

a simple yes or no... question.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 17, 2016 - 02:53pm PT
Why would you vote for an open races like that, Edward?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
Cosby, under oath, has admitted to doing acts that constituted rape. To me that seals the deal. I do not know if he has raped all 50 or 60 women who have come forward.


In contrast one woman has claimed Bill Clinton raped her and I haven't heard any corroborating evidence. That's thin evidence. But because Bill and Hillary and benghaziiiiii it must be true.

Edit: and you are voting for an open racist.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 03:01pm PT
Yes, Bill Cosby is a rapist

Bill Clinton has women that have accused him of sexual misconduct

No charges of rape have been filed against him that have been legitimate

People say Obama is a homo crack addict on the internet, does that mean it's true?

No it's hate speech
when you lie to make a point, it's hate speech

Should Cosby go to jail, yes
he has so much evidence against him it's not even funny

Clinton conspiracy theories, zero evidence
Norton

Social climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 03:02pm PT
Trump is setting modern records for political toxicity

— at least for a major-party candidate this far out from an election.

Seventy percent of Americans surveyed in an ABC News/Washington Post poll out this week had an unfavorable opinion of Trump, up 10 points over the past month. The poll showed Trump’s favorable rating cratering at 29 percent, down from 37 percent last month.

The numbers were similar in a Bloomberg Politics poll: Trump’s favorable rating is just 31 percent, with 66 percent viewing him unfavorably. That’s only marginally better than in March, when 29 percent viewed Trump favorably, and 68 percent had an unfavorable opinion.


lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jun 17, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
Trumpy Dumpty already has an advisor: Joseph Schmitz. Blackwater International/Prince fame

A look at his Bio.

https://ballotpedia.org/Joseph_Schmitz

As for Prince.

“Prince published Civilian Warriors, a personal memoir dedicated in part to dispelling what Prince claimed were misperceptions about the Blackwater record—particularly concerning its employees' behavior in combat, the company's secrecy, and his own political connections.[4] "Civilian Warriors is an angry book," opined a Bloomberg Businessweek write-up of the memoir, "and some of Prince’s contentions have made immediate headlines: He argues that ill-conceived State Department regulations led to Blackwater’s many firefights in Iraq; he has accused former CIA Director Leon Panetta of blowing his cover as an intelligence asset; and he contends that, had Blackwater still been providing security for America’s diplomats, Chris Stevens, the ambassador killed in Benghazi, would be alive today."[5]

The book is also a screed against government incompetence and a paean to military contracting. According to Businessweek, Prince wanted the book "to prove two things he strongly believed in: the dynamism of the private sector, and that some of the world’s most frustrating problems—piracy, warlords, genocide—could be solved by small groups of highly trained men with guns."[6]

*note: Half Truth, in private sector or mercenary army which he advocates has been around for quite a while. Problem when the enemy sees a white person [US] with a weapon even when the US military has left or is not even involved that enemy still believes it is the US behind/doing the killing. The French as well as UK have the same, that is why they are always being targeted.

Get a better picture of the as$hole yourself by reading about his ego.

Plus, he has a few secrets he refuses to add the Benghazi attack, the one about the same [CIA smuggled arms in route to Syria] rockets we gave to the opposition that were used to blow the wall of the consulate.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 17, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
I'm actually pretty f*#king horrified that enough brainless bigots think this know nothing bully is qualified to be a nominee of a major political party.

That's someone we can agree on.

Where we seem to disagree is the extent of narrow-minded, hostile intolerance from the left. This thread is a good example. It's been averaging around 100 posts/day. About 90 of those posts are little more than people bashing Trump and anyone who supports him. Pretty much a circle jerk of hate.

Everybody knows what Trump is about, yet the hatefest continues.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 17, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
Dirtbag.... you answered for CF, I didn't ask you. But has he been convicted?
Brought to trial??

CF gave his usual Rose colored glasses answer... "its all lies, yadayadayada...................................................................................................................yadayadayadayada......................... Lies lies lies.......



so Ill ask another question: CF or Dirt, When did you stop beating your wife?

be honest, OK.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 03:52pm PT
No, Bill Clinton has not been convicted nor brought to trial.

Has Bill Cosby been convicted yet?

Honestly
I have never beat anyone in my life, not even a pet.
How about you?
and be honest.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 17, 2016 - 03:53pm PT
When did you stop beating your wife?

Guy, cause they don't think it's in the Quran (even though it is)!
dirtbag

climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 03:56pm PT
Um... What is your point guyman? Your turn to answer a question.

You are supporting an open racist, btw.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 04:05pm PT
Okay own up, it's a tough question but nobody outside ST needs to know: You've got a body, mind and spirit like Daniel Day Lewis (you) and you're stuck in an elevator for 24 hours with...


Who's your pick, Hillary or Melania?

Perhaps I'm biased, but mine is Hillary.

Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jun 17, 2016 - 04:24pm PT
this thread is a microcosm of the USA. it is why things are so f*#ked up. it doesnt matter whether one presents facts to someone who has their head so far up their ass. and it happens on both sides of the fence.

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 17, 2016 - 04:28pm PT

You are supporting an open racist, btw.


Who is an OPEN RACIST?

be specific with links, please. And not your interpretation of a statement ether..... just show me the text, unedited or a conversation videotaped again unedited. I will read/look and think.... deal?


What is an OPEN RACIST?

You mean like some of the famous Democrats from the past, George Wallace, Lester Maddox those good ol boys or some of the newer members like Spike Lee, Jessie Jackson, Debbie Washerman-Shultz or some of the Republican ones David Duke come to mind.



And no, I have never beaten anybody unless they deserved it. Like the two Latin gangbangers who wanted to rob my business. :>) one of those dudes is now called... "one eye"

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 17, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
I don't fear Donald, I fear the millions of morons who think he is the answer.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jun 17, 2016 - 04:32pm PT
you can say that again.

there should be some sort of intelligence test for voting. trump would not have any supporters.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 17, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
I don't fear Donald, I fear the millions of morons who think he is the answer.

He is the answer--to Democrats holding the White House and regaining control of the House and Senate. Fear? He's the answer to a prayer.

Curt
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 17, 2016 - 04:48pm PT
guyman, an 'open racist' is someone who publicly and unapologetically racist. That would be Trump.

And unless you correct us otherwise, you will be voting for Trump because he's not Hillary. And he's the only choice you have, even if you think he's a total as#@&%e and a racist. (Besides staying home.)

If you vote for him, you are supporting him. And he's an open racist. It's really quite simple.

Got it now?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 17, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
Klimmer, it would actually be a lot clearer if it actually said ISIS. It doesn't.

It mentions a number of groups, none of them being ISIS. That's a far cry from being an ISIS "supporter".

The part you seem to be missing is that ISIS wasn't really on the radar at all for quite some time in Syria. Get it mate?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 17, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
^^^^^^^^^
Nope.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 06:59pm PT
It doesn't say anything about Obama supporting ISIS

Why would he support ISIS?
are you saying that he is working in conjunction with ISIS?
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jun 17, 2016 - 07:01pm PT

Ok! so go ahead ask me to get rid of it. no problem just making a point where Trump will take women.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
"In a speech, Donald Trump said thousands of people in the United States are sick with hate. Then Trump said, 'I’d like to thank them for their support.'"

---Conan O'Brien


"My only qualification to be a babysitter is that I used to be a baby. That's crazy! That's like saying, 'Hey, you're sick a lot, you wanna be my doctor?' Or, 'Weren't you the host of a reality show? You wanna be president of the United States?'”

---Lori Mae Hernandez, 13, on America's Got Talent
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 17, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
JB, here you go. Why Donald Trump when you can Trump Donald?

http://trumpdonald.org/

Have fun! :)

Tell me he doesn't look A LOT LIKE a young Gorbachev without that comb over!
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
Donald Trump said John McCain is not a war hero. Remember?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:20pm PT
"The other greater sin is the loss of precious human lives."


Ooooo...is this where we can start talking about the THOUSANDS OF LIVES lost due to neo-con wet dreams of BushCheneyCo. in a pointless, manipulated war, the idjuts that YOU VOTED FOR?????
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
Trump not perfect? That is one hell of an understatement. Aren't you a science teacher? Critical analysis should be part of the curriculum.....

I feel your reservations about Hillary, but Trump? That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:31pm PT
Why does Obama refer to ISIS as ISIL when the rest of the world refers to the those as#@&%es as ISIS? He just did it with his last speech.

PS...Hillary is the worst!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
Well Klimmer, if you actually have a brain, you know that in fact Bush was the one who signed the status of forces agreement with Iraq that forced the withdrawal of American forces. Obama tried to modify the agreement Bush made with Iraq so that American forces wouldn't have to leave, but the Iraqis wanted American forces subject to Iraqi law. Obama, correctly, refused to place American armed forces under the control of a foreign country. Iraq would not change the agreement GEORGE F*#KING BUSH made. Obama was forced to remove American forces from Iraq. Bush did this, not Obama.

Damn, you Repubs are unable to actually look at reality and understand history. That American forces left Iraq was because of George F*#king Bush. Not Obama. But, to give you credit, say it enough times (and you're pretty good at this) and it will be true. Give up the Kool-Aid. You are a f*#king idiot.

Edited to add 'f*#king' to the idiot part. But we all knew this. Klimmer, what about the Massive Ark on the Moon? Is this now something that has faded, faded, faded away now that you have a 'hero' to follow? Gosh, I wonder how you will feel on election day; downcast, distraught, depressed, but ready to jump on the next train out of Dodge. Seriously, what will you do when your donkey who speaks for god is dethroned? Will you have an epiphany? That would be biblical. Keep us posted, as I am sure you will.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:48pm PT
That sounds pretty fishy winemaker. Obama was super proud to be the man to bring our troops home. In hindsight now it was a bad decision. But it was not Obamas fault but Bushs. Does that seem about right to you?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:50pm PT
What the f*#k are you talking about? Resources????
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:51pm PT
Obama has zero respect from me. He cannot admit when he made bad decisions. The first interview with him after ISIS decapitated the journalists he blamed everyone else but himself. He is a spineless coward
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
From Wiipedia:

The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1] The pact required criminal charges for holding prisoners over 24 hours, and required a warrant for searches of homes and buildings that were not related to combat.[1] U.S. contractors working for U.S. forces would have been subject to Iraqi criminal law, while contractors working for the State Department and other U.S. agencies would retain their immunity. If U.S. forces committed still undecided "major premeditated felonies" while off-duty and off-base, they would have been subjected to an undecided procedures laid out by a joint U.S.-Iraq committee if the U.S. certified the forces were off-duty.[2][3][1][4]

The agreement expired at midnight on December 31, 2011, even though the United States completed its final withdrawal of troops from Iraq on December 16, 2011. The symbolic ceremony in Baghdad officially "cased" (retired) the flag of U.S. forces in Iraq, according to army tradition.[5]

Edit: Klimmer, I didn't make this up, this is f*#king history. Search for yourself; it's pretty simple.

Edited to add: Klimmer, you're (notice the correct grammar) an idiot.

Redited to add: Sorry, Klimmer, couldn't find lots of youtube videos for you (I didn't even try, to be honest). I'm sure you can though, just give it a little little try. Post the results. You will be graded on a curve.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:53pm PT
Google it yourself Klimmer...Don't be lazy...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.

Klimmer, don't you read back thread before you join back in the debate

we already talked about how Bush created ISIS this morning!!!

are you saying that you don't even read the other posts on this thread?

Bush pulled the troops

but it was the initial invasion of Iraq that created ISIS

Bush fired all the Gov. and Military Iraqis after we took control
They became ISIS

What else were they going to do, they couldn't get a job with the tyrannical occupiers of their country
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
^^^ There is plenty of it to go around with both parties!
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:11pm PT
Donald Trump is not a perfect man. He admits it. I'm sure he would apologize for saying that. He does at times mis-speak.

how many times have you posted that line or similar on this thread? Tell you anything?
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:15pm PT
you will be surprise to see how middle east politics could change the American Election in 2016 as it did in 1979
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
^^^Does this thread tell you anything? 10,000 pages of trump haters posting how awful trump is and how everything is going to be ok because he cannot win.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
The middle east, in my opinion, is of absolute importance in this election and world politics in general. I am very interested to learn more. Why do you think this is so?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:28pm PT
Klimer, from Time Magazine, October 21, 2011, but, admittedly, sort of an American bullshit type of news source:

In one of his final acts in office, President Bush in December of 2008 had signed a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with the Iraqi government that set the clock ticking on ending the war he’d launched in March of 2003. The SOFA provided a legal basis for the presence of U.S. forces in Iraq after the United Nations Security Council mandate for the occupation mission expired at the end of 2008. But it required that all U.S. forces be gone from Iraq by January 1, 2012, unless the Iraqi government was willing to negotiate a new agreement that would extend their mandate. And as Middle East historian Juan Cole has noted, “Bush had to sign what the [Iraqi] parliament gave him or face the prospect that U.S. troops would have to leave by 31 December, 2008, something that would have been interpreted as a defeat… Bush and his generals clearly expected, however, that over time Washington would be able to wriggle out of the treaty and would find a way to keep a division or so in Iraq past that deadline.”

But ending the U.S. troop presence in Iraq was an overwhelmingly popular demand among Iraqis, and Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki appears to have been unwilling to take the political risk of extending it. While he was inclined to see a small number of American soldiers stay behind to continue mentoring Iraqi forces, the likes of Shi’ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, on whose support Maliki’s ruling coalition depends, were having none of it. Even the Obama Administration’s plan to keep some 3,000 trainers behind failed because the Iraqis were unwilling to grant them the legal immunity from local prosecution that is common to SOF agreements in most countries where U.S. forces are based.

So, while U.S. commanders would have liked to have kept a division or more behind in Iraq to face any contingencies — and, increasingly, Administration figures had begun citing the challenge of Iran, next door — it was Iraqi democracy that put the kibosh on that goal. The Bush Administration had agreed in 2004 to restore Iraqi sovereignty, and in 2005 put the country’s elected government in charge of shaping its destiny. But President Bush hadn’t anticipated that Iraqi democracy would see pro-U.S. parties sidelined and would, instead, consistently return governments closer to Tehran than they are to Washington. Contra expectations, a democratic Iraq has turned out to be at odds with much of U.S. regional strategy — first and foremost its campaign to isolate Iran.

Need more? There's lots out there, since this actually happened. Klimmer, history and reality are both bitches.

trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:31pm PT
Who had the final say to remove American forces from Iraq?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:34pm PT
Please see above; it's pretty clear.

Edited to add: The SOF agreement, signed by George Bush, agreed to withdraw all US forces from Iraq by January 1, 2012. Obama had no choice in this, as the Iraqis would not negotiate a new agreement that kept US forces in Iraqi out Iraqi legal control. Obama simply did what George Bush had agreed to do, although he did try to negotiate a new treaty with Iraq with no success.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:42pm PT
Klimmer, why would you support a candidate who has no experience in government, and knows nothing of geopolitics?
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:45pm PT
Oh I see. Obama is truly innocent of all accountability of the presidential responsibilities. I say we give him another Nobel peace prize.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 17, 2016 - 09:57pm PT
WTF trail? George Bush negotiated and signed a SOF agreement with Iraq that required all US forces to leave Iraq by January 1, 2012. When Obama withdrew those forces, it was due to an agreement Bush made (which was before Obama was actually president). So Obama is responsible for agreements Bush made? Holy time machine, Batman.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:00pm PT
Yikes you seem pretty upset. I am simply presenting a counter argument to your 10 commandments. But that makes me a f*#king idiot.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:06pm PT
For gods sake he is the f*#king president, whom was so proud(and it was a vital part of his presidential campaign) to bring home our troops. Right or wrong; own your decisions its Presidential to do so. It is done, I am not blaming him for ISIS, just don't immune him from what he was so proud of.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:08pm PT
oh wait.. I am just a idiot and a racist. ignore me
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:26pm PT
What specifically would Chump do differently against Daesh?

So far he has said nothing of any substance whatsoever.

Please enlighten us benighted pagans K.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:32pm PT
He would do what all American presidents do and wage an expensive war against them. Samething Hillary will do and Obama did.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 17, 2016 - 10:40pm PT
but in their defense what other options do they have? Negotiate?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 17, 2016 - 11:44pm PT
Only with people who choose to be morons, Cosmic.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 18, 2016 - 12:58am PT
ok... this is funny:

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:00am PT
Only with people who choose to be morons...

How come you get a free pass then?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:08am PT
We voted for Obama to get the troops out of Iraq

He did what the people wanted, even though it was already in the works because of the Bush agreement to remove all troops by 2012

Now you guys say that removing the troops was the wrong thing to do, I say go f*#k yourselves with your BS hypocrisy

Were the troops to stay there forever? yes or no?

If Bush didn't invade in the first place, we would never even be talking about this blame game. All blame goes straight to Bush, he should have never conducted his illegal invasion of a unarmed country. and then add torture to the mix, Bush should be in jail for LIFE. These are War Crimes, punishable by Death according to our laws.

Here's my last word.
McCain stooped to a new low with his LIE about Obama to be to blame about the Orlando shooting, they should run that guy out of town, what a scum bag

It's a typical reaction of a right winger in trouble at the polls, say something so vitriolic that it wakes up the base of knuckledragger hate mongers, they will come to your rescue with unlimited support
dirtbag

climber
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:13am PT
Iraq also wanted them to leave.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:32am PT
Not sacking the oil fields to pay for the invasion was a stupid thing to do. I've a pretty low opinion of those who decided to give it back to the losers who lost control of it.

WTF?

So we should have made the Iraqis give us all their oil?
I thought we were there for Freedom, liberty and democracy.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:35am PT
What booty did we extract from Vietnam or Japan?

SO invasions are all about extracting riches from our victims?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:40am PT
Pretty simple math, imo. Otherwise, we the taxpayers get to pay for it, WTF?


When have we not paid for them (wars, invasions)?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:48am PT
I think your idea of extraction of riches to pay for your invasion would be considered a war crime.

There are laws against it.

The people get stuck with the high bill if they like it or not.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 18, 2016 - 08:16am PT

McCain stooped to a new low with his LIE about Obama to be to blame about the Orlando shooting, they should run that guy out of town, what a scum bag

This is what happens when you let a senile, 80 yr old man run for reelection.

The invasion of Iraq was one of the biggest mistakes ever committed by this country.
In regards to Afghanistan, our fight was with Al Qaida, not the Taliban controlled government,
And maybe we should have learned something from the Soviets experience.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 18, 2016 - 09:00am PT
10b 'We' learned, unfortunately 'They' didn't. Most likely because 'They' thought they could create their own reality per Mr. Rumsfeld.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 18, 2016 - 09:24am PT
Klimmer...have you ever heard of thing called factcheck????


Sept. 11, 2002: Howard Stern asks Trump if he supports invading Iraq. Trump answers hesitantly. “Yeah, I guess so. You know, I wish it was, I wish the first time it was done correctly.”
Jan. 28, 2003: Trump appears on Fox Business’ “Your World with Neil Cavuto,” on the night of President Bush’s State of the Union address. Trump says he expects to hear “a lot of talk about Iraq and the problems,” and the economy. He urges Bush to make a decision on Iraq. “Either you attack or you don’t attack,” he says. But he offers no opinion on what Bush should do.


http://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donald-trump-and-the-iraq-war/
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 18, 2016 - 09:33am PT
Trump has lot's of friends in Iraq...Really good friends...! Saddam Hussein was one of them...Really good golfer...Great leader...Great putter...Great looking daughter...
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 18, 2016 - 10:34am PT
Yeah, if Obama was not making a booty call, why in the hell did he and his posse (was it pussy? memory is not clear here) invade Iraq?





[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Jun 18, 2016 - 10:52am PT
“I was against the war from the very beginning, all the way back in 2004.”

Um...the war started in 2003. And he was on record before the war supporting it.

I don't really care what his actual position was. But his lies about how he has had a consistent position is troubling, and so are his kool aid drinking defenders foolishly thinking he is some kind of prophetic truthsayer.

He's actually a f*#king idiot. I know more about current issues, and so do most others posting here, than he does. I'm not saying that to brag, I'm saying that because it is a real problem that we know more than the nominee for president.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 18, 2016 - 11:03am PT
I was against the Iraq invasion all the up to it's beginning. Then I just hoped they/we knew what they were doing.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 18, 2016 - 05:52pm PT
Yes, trump said it so it must be true.

"Drink the kool aid, Klimmer. Have a huuuuuuge glass. It's tremendous!"
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
Who honestly gives a f*#k what Trump thinks or said 10 years ago...He has severe credibility issues and zero experience in governing...He's a glorified real estate agent ( dirt pimp ) posing as presidential material...can we fast forward to nov. and get rid of this pompous jackass...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:19pm PT
Rj, that's gold.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:40pm PT
Klimmer, do you have any critical thinking skills at all? Sorry, rhetorical question.

Edited to add: Again, sorry, I'm assuming you know what 'rhetorical' means. Bad assumption.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
Drumpf is sinking fast..6% behind in the polls and the dude can't stop sticking his foot in his mouth, lol. When you pull the pin on a grenade, you're supposed to throw it at the enemy, not stick it up your own ass..
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
. However, if we do have to go to war with a nation for just reasons, then yes, we should have the right to spoils of war, "booty" as it is known as.

Rape and pillage. Hmmmm. Maybe there's more to being in the army than I thought.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 18, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
The Bible says clearly that looting and pillage is top of the list after conquest

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 18, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 18, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
As the article says that I linked to, Donald Trump had private conversations with the news anchor Cuomo, back in 2003 that he had serious doubts about the war with Iraq. So private thoughts and discussions don't count? It has to be in a media source to verify how someone feels about a war? Or it didn't happen?

No, it doesn't really count. If a person of influence is not willing to come out publicly and express their opinion, particularly if it runs against the "powers that be", then one is basically a coward.

A perfect case in point: Richard Armitage, the defense expert who served in the Bush and Reagan admins, who PUBLICLY came out this week, and said that he would vote for Clinton, if Trump is the nominee.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 18, 2016 - 09:22pm PT
next morph...


DimBo...


Sorry, that one has already been taken by Dimbo Kashinagin.





Trump is now trying to blackmail the Republican Party into supporting him. He said that if they don't fall into line and support him, he will stop raising campaign funds for the RNC.

Then, Trump said that it would be helpful if the Republican Party helped him.



He said that there are "insurgent delegates" that are plotting to somehow get rid of him at the convention, and install a different candidate.

But, in the very next breath, Trump said that there are no insurgent delegates plotting to get rid of him and install their own candidate. He said that that was a false story, made up by the media and the press.


Got Adderall?

dirtbag

climber
Jun 19, 2016 - 07:28am PT
Trump's in trouble. Forget polling (which is bad for him right now)--this is killing him too:


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 19, 2016 - 07:31am PT
The cowardly thing to do was lie about what you said about the Iraqi invasion, like Trump did.

Hillary admitted that her vote to give Bush the ability to intercede in Iraq AFTER THEY find the WMDs was the worst vote she ever made.

The vote wasn't for the certain invasion of Iraq, it had qualifications that needed to be met, and if they weren't, then Bush could take all options off the table and do whatever he thought necessary.

No one thought at the time that Bush would Pull the inspectors as they were finding nothing and invade anyway on his fabricated intel.

The cowardly thing to do is never admit that you are wrong and just double down on the lies and deceit.

Hillary has admitted her mistakes and apologized when wrong,
a sign of a honest Leader
dirtbag

climber
Jun 19, 2016 - 08:00am PT
^^^this.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 19, 2016 - 08:21am PT
Winemaker, it doesn't do any good to question either Klimmer, or Jody. They refuse to answer anything, because their answer is not going to be based on fact, just hyperbole.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 19, 2016 - 12:28pm PT
The interesting thing that happened when Kansas cut taxes and California hiked them

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/17/one-state-raised-taxes-the-other-cut-them-guess-which-one-is-in-recession/

In 2012, voters in California approved a measure to raise taxes on millionaires, bringing their top state income tax rate to 13.3 percent, the highest in the nation. Conservative economists predicted calamity, or at least a big slowdown in growth. Also that year, the governor of Kansas signed a series of changes to the state's tax code, including reducing income and sales tax rates. Conservative economists predicted a boom.

Neither of those predictions came true. Not right away -- California grew just fine in the year the tax hikes took effect -- and especially not in the medium term, as new economic data showed this week.

Now, correlation does not, as they say, equal causation, and two examples are but a small sample. But the divergent experiences of California and Kansas run counter to a popular view, particularly among conservative economists, that tax cuts tend to supercharge growth and tax increases chill it.

California's economy grew by 4.1 percent in 2015, according to new numbers from the Bureau of Economic Analysis, tying it with Oregon for the fastest state growth of the year. That was up from 3.1 percent growth for the Golden State in 2014, which was near the top of the national pack.

The Kansas economy, on the other hand, grew 0.2 percent in 2015. That's down from 1.2 percent in 2014, and below neighboring states such as Nebraska (2.1 percent) and Missouri (1.2 percent). Kansas ended the year with two consecutive quarters of negative growth -- a shrinking economy. By a common definition of the term, the state entered 2016 in recession.

Growing: California’s economy grew 5.7% in 2015, and the Golden State is now the sixth largest economy in the world. (Sacramento Bee).
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 19, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
Trump is the Energizer Cheeto Jesus.

He keeps ranting, and ranting, and ranting, and ranting, and ranting, and ranting, and ranting . . . . . . .


Today, on CBS' Face The Nation, he repeated his call for America to profile Muslim citizens, because "that would be using common sense".

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-muslim-profiling-000000496.html




Next up:

Trump will find out that some inner city African American youths illegally carry firearms. Trump will use his vaunted common sense to call for them to be profiled, too.



Later:

Trump will learn that many Asian Americans have relatives and friends living in countries such as Japan, Korea, and (God Forbid!) China. Trump will find out (during a CIA intel briefing) that some of these Asian Americans are communicating with their overseas relatives and friends using an unusual coding system that Trump can't understand (思想改造).

Common sense (Trumpian sense, anyway) will tell him that those Asian Americans are stealing America's secrets and selling them to China, so that China can steal America's jobs.

Common sense will tell you that Trump will want to profile Asian Americans, too.





Norton

Social climber
Jun 19, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
Common sense says that HIllary beats Donald by over 10 million popular and over 140 Electoral Votes in Landslide

the Dems take back the US Senate and pick up maybe 10 House seats

Repubs continue to control the House and so zero legislation gets passed benefiting the middle class

Trump get the Repub nomination again in 2020, same thing happens over again

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 19, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
Amen, Locker.

And Norton, yes, your margins look about right.

What a freak show the GOP convention will be.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 19, 2016 - 02:38pm PT
Make America Great Again

America IS great, right now.

But that is unacceptable to you. You want to change things, just for changes sake. You will settle for ANYTHING. Including a huge diminution of America.
JC Marin

Trad climber
CA
Jun 19, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
Let's make orangutans great again..am I right or am I right???
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 19, 2016 - 03:30pm PT
People want change for the better. People are tired of the same old institutional regime and corruption. Elect Hillary Clinton and we have the same Obama policies, and there goes our country down the toilet.


We want change for the better.


Make America Great Again


Vote for Donald Trump.

How many times have you made this exact or very similar post? We get it, Klammer
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 19, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
If this country is so terrible, klimmer, why don't you leave?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 19, 2016 - 04:12pm PT
Klimmer, make America Greater by learning to spell, for god's sake. It's 'weep' not 'weap'. You are an idiot and should be thankful for unions or else you wouldn't have a job. You're really drinkin' that Kool-Aid.

Edit: Yeah, I know Klimmer is a troll, either consciously of unconsciously, and he's sucked me in too, but I still have to say the 'Massive Ark on The Moon' is a classic. Klimmer, have you given up on that one?

I'm amazed by the amount of time Klimmer must have spent 'researching' topics on youtube; when do you sleep bro? Still, keep it up and let us know what you do when Trump loses; it's god's test of you Klimmer. You will be graded on a curve.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 19, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
America is full of Klimmers, who do think Trump support/base is?



Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 19, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
Nah, GCF, the Klimmster is actually a science teacher in a California High School. Hard to believe, I know, but still true. God wept (note the spelling).

Edited to add: I can't even read that sh#t, Klimmer, yet alone more..... Get a grip man.

Re-edited (is that a word?) to add: You seem to know so much about the Trumpster Klimmer; have you actually communicated with him? I mean, you say he believe this and he says that and he thinks this and he thinks that. Have you actually, really, communicated with his Holiness? Do you have his email address? Has he sent messages to you through god? How do you know so much about our new Leader? Is there some sort of contact high or something? Please explain; we are desperate to know.

Re-re-edited to add: Put in some damn paragraph breaks Klimmer, for god's sake; this is unreadable..
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 19, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
Klimmer,your "list" is such BS.

For example, Number 6 is a vote he took as a Senator, NOT as President.

You going to cite projects that he put together as a community organizer that didn't work out:??

You going to cite homework that he gave as a law professor that was too easy???
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 19, 2016 - 07:49pm PT
America is great right now, and was great 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago and more.
Whoever the president is has no bearing on the quality of my life.
If the opposition party makes your life worse, you simply need to get a real life...applies to both sides.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 19, 2016 - 08:57pm PT
Klimmer writes:

With Hillary Clinton we get more of the same ...

Dear god, if that's what it takes to make this stop......... then Trump. You win Klimmer, you win, Please stop, please. No mas, no mas.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 19, 2016 - 09:59pm PT
With rising unease among Hill Republicans, McConnell told Bloomberg News that Trump should pick an experienced running mate “because it's pretty obvious he doesn't know a lot about the issues…I object to a whole series of things that he's said -- vehemently object to them,” including “these attacks on various ethnic groups in the country."

Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and John Kasich are among those who remain sharply critical of Trump, despite having pledged to support the nominee.

Perhaps his strongest words were reserved for MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough. The former Republican congressman, who regularly interviewed Trump and talked up his chances during the primaries, has turned harshly critical in recent weeks. The candidate says he’s stopped watching “Morning Joe.”

Scarborough told me that he and co-host Mika Brzezinski have been friendly with Trump for years. “It’s sad for Mika and me to see him fall off a cliff, chasing conspiracy theories, suggesting the president is connected with ISIS…Suggesting a judge from Indiana is incapable of fairly ruling on certain cases because his parents, like Donald Trump’s, weren’t born in America. And his continued vilification of 1.5 billion Muslims is un-American.”

Scarborough said Trump had no complaint when his analysis was upbeat: “You can’t love John Madden when he says your team is going to win the Super Bowl, then hate John Madden when you start throwing the ball backwards 20 times a game.”
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 19, 2016 - 11:15pm PT
Charlie Sheen tells a story about how Trump gave him fake cuff links


[Click to View YouTube Video]
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:26am PT
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/21/us/politics/corey-lewandowski-donald-trump.html?mwrsm=Facebook&_r=0
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:31am PT
And so how will you feel when President Trumps bans Climbing In National Parks,
Or make Climbing Illegal with out. . . Blank BlanK and Trumpco, getting paid?
Builds Hotels on top @ Zion & YOS With Cable cars to bring the fat masses up and down while having you shot with salt guns for trying to climb?

I will vote, against Trump and for that shjtcan Billery, her foreign policy will fail as it has,
But If we get a dictator: that is what trump IS

then Im taking my ball and going To. . .
Austria, Luxembourg, Spain I don't care where ,Not England, France, Germany
basically not any different or worse,
Ill go tiny, small, backwards. ( HEY, Australia How YOO Doing?)
Freedom Is gone
and Trump will take what is left away.
He will change the rules to the places that we Love most, to say nothing about the Loss of all rights Of women,
Build roads & hotels and Monetize the Crap out of IT
Re Instate the Draft, insist own compliance to his game at all cost Incuding the sesation Of Texas when HE strips out The 2nd Amendment, after an Assassination attempt....

You do the math If you vote any way but one You will, We will. . . .
GET PHOOKED BY TRUMP
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:34am PT
Klimmer a troll?

Maybe, but damn...can you imagine someone going to all of the time and trouble to write those wall-of-text endless gibberish posts that he throws up?

And how about all the thin-skinned detractors, who regularly get their panties wadded over his transparent trollery???
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:39am PT
NO ONE rEADS 'KILL ME NOWS' SHJT DO THEY?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:48am PT
Jon Beck, that was great. I enjoyed hearing that story, Thanks.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:57am PT
The worst president was



Yes

Carter the fool.


but that led to Bush 1 & 2 that led to this current rube....




now get me out of these politurds threads- - -

Help I have fallen

But

I Can GET THE eF OUT





V V V V V V BEND HER OVER AND SHE COPMS WOODEN NICKLES
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:58am PT
Psssst.....Donald Trump wants to do his daughter....
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 09:07am PT
Well he did say that.


He also remarked that he hoped his then one year old girl would have nice breasts.


It's not apogee who has his mind in the gutter.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 20, 2016 - 09:14am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 09:20am PT
And here he is talking about his baby's future boobs:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3528887/Donald-Trump-talks-infant-daughter-Tiffany-s-breasts-uncovered-interview-1994.html

Your man is a creep and openly racist.

But because some weirdo posted a rant on YouTube about a trump prophecy he had while taking a dump, you think he's gods little finger.

Actually, he's gods middle finger.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 09:22am PT
Thank you locker
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 20, 2016 - 09:23am PT
The lengths that Klimmer will go to be the apologist for Trump is amazing
"he's not that bad", "he's a good father" "it was a compliment"
"she does have nice breasts, so what", "he didn't mean it was blood coming out of her whatever", "she is a pig"

But "Hillary is a pure evil corrupt liar, worse than Satan"

"it's you flaming liberals that are the bad ones, not Trump"

come on, give it up Klimmer,
YOU ARE WRONG

Trump would make the worst President in the History of America

Pull your head out

You're in Backwards bubble land
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 09:46am PT
Apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Jun 20, 2016 - 08:46am PT
You're kinda right, EdwardT...our time would be far better spent on actual, kool-aid guzzlers such as yourself.

Kool-aid guzzler? What makes you say that? Please back up your claim. Don't run away like Norton.

GFT - I think Trump is a tool. First class d#@&%ebag. No way I'm voting for him.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 09:58am PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 10:00am PT
Well, alright then...that makes about four ST conservatives who are out of the closet with their dislike for Trump, and will not be voting for him. Good on ya.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 10:10am PT
Edward has been consistent on that point for awhile now.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 10:30am PT
Trump's campaign implosion has officially commenced.

Trump fired his campaign manager Corey "Niedermeyer" Lowandowski.

Trump relied heavily on Lowandowski to secure the nomination. Trump promised to stand by Lowandowski, no matter what. Trump praised Lowandowski as a great guy who was going to be an important part of his administration.

Now that Trump has the nomination well in hand, he has no more use for Lowandowski, and Trump has simply discarded him as if he were the paper wrapper of a McDonald's cheeseburger.


The Lowandowski Affair is indicative of Trump's loyalty to his friends and employees: wholly contingent on what Trump perceives to be his gain in the relationship.

Trump's shares a twisted concept of a BFF (Best Friend Forever) with an equally fickle Paris Hilton. If truth be told, those two would refer to their latest pal as their BFFFN - Best Friend Forever, For Now.


http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Donald-Trump-parts-ways-with-his-campaign-manager-8313050.php






Trump is apparently confused about the difference between nightclub patrons staggering around with loaded firearms, and security guards.

Trump lamented that patrons killed at the Orlando nightclub were not locked and loaded, strapped and carrying. He said, "It's too bad that some of the young people that were killed over the weekend didn't have guns, you know, attached to their hips."


Soon after that, in fine Trumpian style, he dismissed that concept as not ever having come out of his big mouth. He denied suggesting that nightclub patrons should carry loaded firearms while trading shots of Daniel's Jack before aggressively competing for sexual partners.


Trump insisted that his words meant that security guards should be carrying firearms in nightclubs.



First of all, Trump's statement clearly proposed that the patrons be the ones carrying guns, "strapped to their waist and strapped to their ankles". Trump, once again, lied to the public in an attempt to conjure Orwell's Memory Hole and revise history.


Second, if Trump was truly referring to security guards, then his statement is equivalent to: "Security guards armed with guns could have shot back at the Orlando nightclub shooter."

That's not exactly revelatory, or inobvious.



http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/Trump-US-should-consider-profiling-Muslims-8312546.php







EDIT UPDATE:

Neidermeyer is in denial.

He is still hoping for a position in the Trump Administration.

Like a dumped girlfriend who frenetically praises her ex-boyfriend through gritted teeth while silently praying for reconciliation, Lowandowski is barfing rainbows at Trump.


http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/politics-government/article84835787.html#storylink=latest_side
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 10:33am PT
Trump actually had a campaign manager?

Musta been an easy job- your candidate wants to do everything themselves, say anything they want, anytime...

Maybe I should apply.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 10:35am PT
He's going to have an increasingly tough time attracting talented people.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 10:45am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Roger Stone is rather talented and nefarious.

The Gin Grinch is agitating to be Trump's V.P.

Vladimir Putin will arrive on the Trump stage any day now.




Don't underestimate Donald D#@&%e just yet.

Alexander the Great's father, Alfred, lost an eye in battle, but that didn't hinder his military prowess.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 10:45am PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Jun 20, 2016 - 10:00am PT
Well, alright then...that makes about four ST conservatives who are out of the closet with their dislike for Trump, and will not be voting for him. Good on ya.

Is this how you own up to being full of sh!t?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 10:49am PT
Lighten up, Edward. Ferchrissakes.

Edit:
Let's be clear, though...just because you aren't voting for Trump (+1) doesn't mean you haven't guzzled the GOP Kool-Aid...your posts are pretty regular testament to that.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 10:53am PT
^^^^^^^^

We need to run his sorry ass right out of town, and exile him to Hart Island as the king of his own Trumpian utopia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_Island_(New_York)

jstan

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 11:06am PT
Suicide, suicide bombing, and suicide by guns are extreme answers to life problems. A form of denial I think. They also are based upon the belief that very complex problems can be solved quickly and easily by a single action. Our elections and our two party political system are founded on that self-same opinion. Which is as one might expect. The original problem that led to our form of government involved throwing the Brits out.

It has been speculated that the obdurate polarization between our two parties suggests we actually are in transition to a parliamentary system. Seventeen candidates offered by just one party is rather new after all.

We face very complex problems that generally will take more than one try to find a response large numbers of people will be able to support. A parliamentary system allowing control to be transferred when a vote of confidence is lost may be more flexible. But there are functions of government, like our Supreme Court, that may not adapt well to such a change. And in the presence of severe polarization no one in their right mind would attempt constitutional amendment.

So, is there a way forward? Clearly we have to accept up front it will take several generations. Not a time to be in a hurry in search of a simple answer. Unless we want a tyrant backed by military force. Such an answer will be offered us. Only a matter of time. Perhaps a very short time.

Jefferson realized what we created, at its roots, was based upon an educated electorate that also realizes we have a lot to lose. Knowledge of history allows one to assess that risk.

We have a lot of work to do.

Number 10 in the Federalist Papers might be a place to start. Wiki describes this paper as follows.

Madison saw the the Constitution as forming a "happy combination" of a republic and a democracy and with "the great and aggregate interests being referred to the national, the local and particular to the State legislatures" the power would not be centralized in a way that would make it "more difficult for unworthy candidates to practice the vicious arts by which elections are too often carried."

I would call your attention to the next to last paragraph in which Madison discusses the utility of distributing power both to the states and to the Federal bodies.

The influence of factious leaders may kindle a flame within their particular States, but will be unable to spread a general conflagration through the other States. A religious sect may degenerate into a political faction in a part of the Confederacy; but the variety of sects dispersed over the entire face of it must secure the national councils against any danger from that source. A rage for paper money, for an abolition of debts, for an equal division of property, or for any other improper or wicked project, will be less apt to pervade the whole body of the Union than a particular member of it; in the same proportion as such a malady is more likely to taint a particular county or district, than an entire State.

Madison did not expect the internet or perhaps the Citizens United decision.

We have new things with which to contend.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 11:20am PT
Apogee why are sooooooo inappropriate all the time? I think your mind is a seathing cesspool.

wait a minute. klimmer, you're the one that gets off when people think your daughter is your girlfriend. Now that's inappropriate.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 11:24am PT
Roger Stone is rather talented and nefarious.




Dude has a tattoo of nixon's face on his back. No, this is not photoshopped, dude really does have this tattoo.


dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 11:24am PT
Sorry, I just realized that many of you will have trouble unseeing that.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 20, 2016 - 11:39am PT
Donald Trump's Make America Great "Again" plan.





Used to say Trump Plaza on the front of it.

















Taking out the bandits.


































That's right ladies and gents, he's the man with the plan!!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 11:55am PT
For Klimmer, the 'teacher':

'seething'


For Klimmer, the 'teacher':

'Seether'




[Click to View YouTube Video]






A little Veruca Salt now and then is not the worst thing . . . . . . .
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 11:55am PT
jstan:
Excellent post.

Representative democracies require an intelligent and responsible citizenry that understands nuances.
Our affluence has dumbed us down and made us fat. We are now so egalitarian that the dumb and the weak are far outbreeding the smart and the strong.
The advance of civilization is not on a linear upward slope.

Yikes, how am I going to unsee that Nixon tat?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 11:58am PT
Lighten up, Edward. Ferchrissakes.

Oh Apogee, you crap on people on a regular basis. Now you're getting defensive about called on it. Funny.

Edit:
Let's be clear, though...just because you aren't voting for Trump (+1) doesn't mean you haven't guzzled the GOP Kool-Aid...your posts are pretty regular testament to that.

Sure thing, Sporto. Like my recent comments about changing gun laws?

Edit: Thanks dirtbag.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 11:59am PT
Locker, you need to purchase a programme so that you can tell one player from the next.


That is a photo of Richard Chamberlain, not David Duke.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
More like 'calling you out', Edward.

Thick skin. Get one.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
Here's another shot of David Duke taken around the same time period as the above photo..

He was terrific in Purple Rain.

RIP.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:22pm PT
apogee

Jun 20, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
More like 'calling you out', Edward.

Thick skin. Get one.

I typically ignore you because so many of your posts are childish insults or lies. But sometimes I get sucked into your trollish drama. Shame on me.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
That is a photo of Richard Chamberlain, not David Duke.

Who cares?

Let's talk about Rachel Ward.


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:33pm PT
She was great in the 'The Deep', wasn't she?

dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
Yummy!
Norton

Social climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:37pm PT
Don't worry. You'll always have Klimmer to hang out with.

guyman and David Duke of the KKK too!
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:37pm PT
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
dirtbag

Yummy!

Some pics should be reposted again and again.

Just sayin' ;)

Edited: And your Trump pic ain't one of them!!!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
Happy to oblige.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
I had no idea that Kevin Bacon was such a good dancer...

That's because his dance-double in Footloose looked just like him.


And, that's not Kevin Bacon. Get with the programme.






THIS person is (six degrees separated from) Kevin Bacon:



apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
^^^^
Siiiggghhh...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
Gina?

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
^^^^^^ - Sophia Loren and Jane Mansfield - the world's most desirable tag-team*.




Locker, your IMHO is really an IMDO - In My Deluded Opinion

It's fun, though. Keep it up.















*Mariska Hargitay of TV's Law and Order is Jane Mansfield's daughter.

Got genepool?



apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
Holy Crap, those are beautiful.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 20, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
However you want to interpret this...would you ever say such a thing about your own daughter?

He has posted similar s h i t multiple times. Klamor talking about being inappropriate....priceless

Maybe it's just me but the stuff he writes in his post kind of just makes my stomach sick repeating over and over the same old bullsh#t, even though I don't actually read them by skimming over I can see the same old catch phrases


And finally This Thread is starting to go in a good direction
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 20, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
Looks like Sophia might have been a little kinky

vvvvvv oh, man, gotta go to the bathroom
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
^^^^^^^ Tag-Team - - - - - - - - - look it up



Locker, I thought you were joking and I was joking back.

I apologize for being a shitty writer.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
"Looks like Sophia might have been a little kinky"

She's just jealous
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
I miss the Boobs thread.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
It's like what Norm Crosby did as a comedian...

Ah yes, Dr. Cliff Huxtable...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
That guy's a criminal.

'If the sweater fits, you must acquit!'
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jun 20, 2016 - 01:46pm PT
Sophia says, she assumed they would fall out. There are some nip slips from this occasion.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 01:59pm PT
Locker,

I missed the pun.


I saw Dilaudid and immediately translated that, in my head, to hydromorphone, which sounds nothing like deluded.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
"Fukkin Radical Libtard Extremist!"


Cosmic, put down the bong. It's affecting your reading comprehension.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 20, 2016 - 02:18pm PT
dirtbag you effed up the boob trend instead the liberal puts a picture of some defective humans hand.. dirtbag are you say'n that would be good guy to rub you off..!?!
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
dirtbag you effed up the boob trend instead the liberal puts a picture of some defective humans hand.. dirtbag are you say'n that would be good guy to rub you off..!?!

No wonder you're enraptured by Trump.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 20, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
for you cosmic..

http://www.nbcnews.com/specials/donald-trump-republican-party?cid=sm_tw_po_1_062016_14
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 02:37pm PT
mixing politics and boobs?

Hillary doesn't always show poor judgment
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 02:56pm PT
Hannity

once again klimmer uses a biased, and unreliable source.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:00pm PT
Kooks are kooks.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
Boob staring makes you homosexual?

Well, I'll be a gol-durn lesbian...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
Is this one of those 'Norm Crosby' questions, GCF?
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:17pm PT
Yeah I think it's been confirmed over and over
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
ad nauseum

in perpetuum
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:25pm PT
Multitasking
Norton

Social climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
please

don't forget "guyman"', Escoliar, and Skippy's cousin Edward Thompson

dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:37pm PT
Dirtbag, just try and fight the facts. Oh king of ad hominemia. Lol

Yeah...facts, like Hillary is gay, and bush was behind 9/11, and there is an ark on the moon, and so on. When you start posting facts I'll take you seriously. Since you back a know nothing racist authoritarian I consider you to be a huge part of the problem.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:37pm PT
"Name calling?
I don't have the monopoly on that.
All you libtards do a pretty good job on that."


Nope....no name calling there, nosireee.....
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:37pm PT
You are voting for someone who is openly racist. Good on ya, cosmic!
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
Cosmic...did you learn critical thinking in one of klimmer's science classes?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
SO Cosmic apparently has some kind of problem with a non profit accepting money

maybe he thinks non profit corporations should get all of their donations from individuals?

fact is, it does not matter a nats ass where the money comes from

what matters is if the money is being put to good use as the non profit corporate charter calls for

so let us take a look at the Clinton Foundation

The Foundation focuses on improving global health and wellness, increasing opportunity for women and girls, reducing childhood obesity and preventable diseases, creating economic opportunity and growth, and helping communities address the effects of climate change. The Foundation works principally through partnerships with like-minded individuals, organizations, corporations, and governments, often serving as an incubator for new policies and programs.


Through 2014 the foundation had raised almost $2 billion from U.S. corporations especially Wall Street; foreign governments and corporations; political donors; and various other moneyed interests.[3] During its lifetime the foundation has received praise from philanthropic experts and has had support from both Democrats and Republicans, with the latter including members of the George W. Bush administration.[3]


so what exactly is "wrong" with that, what charitable non profit have YOU formed?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
WWJD, Cosmic?

Get stoned to the bone and call everybody he didn't like a 'Libtard'?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 20, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
Cosmic would rather those countries gave to the GOP
so it wouldn't be wasted on good stuff that the Clintons are using it for.

If the GOP had all that money it they could fund some more right wing think tanks to dupe idiots to vote against their best interests, just like Cosmic

or use it as bribes from the countries, so they can let fureners have a piece of the American pie, the GOP will take all you bribe money you can give them for whatever your special favor may be.

Right Cosmic?


crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 20, 2016 - 04:00pm PT
Cosmic will vote for the GOP nominee, but it might not be Donald. This charlatan is only slightly more popular with the GOP establishment than he is on this thread. It's not impossible he could be forced out at the convention. His bigotry and inane pronouncements, each one dumber than the last, may have finally run its course.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
"but that frankly has NOTHING to do with donald trump -this guy is bad news and all the deflecting in the world can't change that."

+1

But if that's all ya got, that's all ya got...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 04:31pm PT
Again, Cosmic....

If your support of Trump was solely about your dislike of Hillary, and you were equally vocal about the fact that you don't like Trump at all except as a way to make Hillary lose, that would be one thing.

But no...you seem to actually like Trump, and are going to vote for him because he's a good choice for the WH.

That's retarded, brain-injured, or just plain stooopid in my book.

Feel free to set me straight about your choice, if I'm off base.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 04:32pm PT

his hair?

His daughter?


(He wishes.)
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 20, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
Whatever happened to the FBI probe of Clinton? Shouldn't she be indicted and on a chain gang by now?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
Today Trump fires his campaign manager and a top aide later resigns for celebrating it, and you people are discussing someone dying in a Jeep who isn't Zachary Quinto?


The post about Corey Lowandowski being fired was two or three pages back.




But, Ricky's post helped me understand Klimmer:


Klimmer posts a tremendous amount of inane (and insane) nonsense, which serves to dilute and obfuscate the message. Klimmer's sideshow makes it harder for people to stay on topic and on message.


STOP RESPONDING TO KLIMMER'S POSTS


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
Aaaaanndd the question still sits there, unanswered...so simple, so straightforward...


"For you, it seems to be the most important aspect...

To LIKE a person, in order to vote for them...

Cosmic, do you LIKE Donald Trump???...


Do you REALLY believe he is a GOOD man/person???..."
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
So are you voting for Trump primarily as a vote against Hillary, or primarily as a vote of support for Trump?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 05:20pm PT

What has Trump done???...


his hair?




Nope. His wife does his hair.

Trump said so in an interview.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 20, 2016 - 05:21pm PT
That Hillary-protected-by-Obama story is another baseless conspiracy theory popular with rightwing media. Like most everything with that gang they lack one thing: evidence.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
Do You Not Care About the US Economy?


Moody's Analytics analysis: Trump presidency would 'significantly' hurt economy



Donald Trump’s presidency would “significantly” weaken the country, driving the U.S. into a “lengthy recession” with nearly 3.5 million job losses and a 7 percent unemployment rate, according to a Moody’s Analytics analysis released Monday.
The analysis examined the presumptive Republican presidential nominee’s economic plans at face value, based on interviews, speeches and his campaign website.

His policies would also diminish the country’s growth prospects, grow federal government deficits, increase the nation’s debt and finance his “mix of much lower tax revenues and few cuts in spending” with “substantially more government borrowing.”
“Driven largely by these factors, the economy will be significantly weaker if Mr. Trump’s economic proposals are adopted. Under the scenario in which all his stated policies become law in the manner proposed, the economy suffers a lengthy recession and is smaller at the end of his four-year term than when he took office,”


Norton

Social climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
Cosmic

you use the word "Libtard" to describe people who vote for Democrats

why don't tell us the reasons why you seem to dislike Democrats, you know, Libtards?

or it is because they don't believe in another Federal law overturning Roe v Wade
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 05:49pm PT
"You are a real, A$$"

"Name calling?
I don't have the monopoly on that.
All you libtards do a pretty good job on that."


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
"No different than what you Libs call republicans."


Umm, yeah, it is.

Derogatory names towards an organization is a leeeettttllee bit different than directly calling someone a name.


Get out of your little glass house, Cosmic. Everybody can see you, and they will happily throw stones right back at you.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 05:54pm PT
Soooo....did she drop you on your head, or what?

Or is it the lingering effects of psilocybin, really good ganja, and tie-dye that has distorted your reality to think Trump is a good choice to be President?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 06:09pm PT
Oh, brother. You gotta try harder than that, buddy.


Wanna hear something ironic?

One of my oldest, closest friends...the guy who taught me to climb decades ago...has lived in Apple Valley most of his life, is a lifelong Christian Republican, and has voted Republican as long as I've known him.

And that's where the similarity with you ends....he says he will absolutely not vote for Trump, and Hillary's gonna get his vote.

Weird, huh?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
Cosmic

did you vote for President Obama or do you pretty much always vote Republican?

I did, and would again, not afraid to say who I vote for, how about you?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
Hi, Jim!

Where you been today?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 06:26pm PT

Facts are facts.
I hope you know that someone pushing an agenda, and something that is a fact are two different things.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 20, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
From a comment to a NY Times article about Trump firing his campaign manager (Thanks to John from Stowe, PA):

Why do even papers like the (New York) Times fail to mention the real elephant in the room? Sure, Trump is a narcissist, a bully, a racist, bigot, misogynist, and just generally a smarmy git. He berates the disabled, lies with every breath, has stiffed literally thousands of contractors and companies who he owes money. He has deliberately preyed on the vulnerable and run a succession of con schemes in the US and globally. He has the temperament of a five year old brat raised by klansmen.

But those are not the primary reasons why his is such a singularly disgraceful campaign.

He has zero experience in or knowledge of anything pertaining to the job he seeks. He is like a kid who just graduated high school with a C average seeking to become the head of the nuclear physics labs at Los Alamos. Like an ice cream truck driver seeking the job of CEO of Citibank. He has no background, no experience, no training, no education in anything relevant to the job, except seeing presidents on television and donating to a few campaigns.

The Republicans whined incessantly that Obama with his Summa grades at Columbia Law, editing Harvard Law Review, teaching Constitutional and other areas of law, work in local politics, then serving as an elected state senator then an elected US senator lacked enough experience for the job. trump has not served in any position anywhere, obviously cannot discern a tabloid from the news, knows zero about law. He is unqualified in every way possible.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
"Can there be any doubt that Obama is a true Muslim? "


Oh, for f*#k's sake.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
Sorry to hear about the strife, Jim.

We've been genuinely trying to understand the motivations of a few Trump voters today...some of that understanding came a little quicker than others, let us say.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 20, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
Apogee your such a female..
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 20, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
If you listen to right wing radio or media
and are a good Christian, right winger, or libertarian,
everything they say makes total sense, it's all True

Here's what they say
Libtards ARE the enemy!, they are like Satan tempting good conservatives to eat the apple they offer..

All our problems are because of the commie libtards and their free morals which are the cause of the breakdown of society...
all these immoralities that the libtards are promoting is going to make God mad and he's going to strike them down, it says it in the bible!

Only a Republican can save the day, so it doesn't matter who it is, Trump, Cruz, Lucifer. It's got to be a Repub.
The people on the media convinced me who to vote for,
and "I won't change my mind no matter what you say, it's as simple as that"
That's why!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 20, 2016 - 06:56pm PT
"If Hilliary gets in it will be just at least 4 more years of Obama."...

No way. It'll be eight.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 07:02pm PT
Yes, I can see not wanting to see a black man become President, that is understandable

seeing that everything on your list is old news and already proven to be lies

but then your source must be that guy in Alabama posting from his basement....

and yeah, the more I think about it, I would not want a woman Pres either

a man has to stand on his principles after all
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 20, 2016 - 07:06pm PT
The oramge drumpf is probably finished. GOP must be ripping it's sparse white hair out now:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/17/opinions/trump-slumps-in-polls-errol-louis/index.html
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
(Obama) bowed in submission before the Saudi King.


That is an exemplary misleading statement from a right-wing reactionary like RadioLoon Mike Gallagher.


George Bush (both of them) not only bowed to the Saudi King, they also held hands with him, like love-struck teenagers. There is a scene of this shown in Fahrenheit 911. As far as I know, Obama doesn't hold hands with the Saudi King.

Saudi customs (and other foreign customs), like bowing to the King, are not the same as American customs. Out of respect to foreign people and their leaders, our Presidents adapt to foreign customs when visiting other nations.

The President empathizes with foreign leaders, by mirroring that nation's customs and behaviors. This demonstrates acceptance of the other people, and reassures them that Americans don't find them and their customs to be unusual, unacceptable, repulsive or repugnant.



On the other hand . . . . . .

A clueless, tactless, self-unaware, bombastic and narcissistic boor like Trump would probably just stomp his way into the Saudi royal palace, touch the face of the King with his left hand, stick his feet up on the table to show the King the soles of his shoes, and then demand that the King be served a plate of of Trump's famous New York City-style pork ribs, and a large glass of Trump Vodka to wash it all down.



Instead of empathizing with people he does business with, Trump's battle plan in any given situation is to marginalize the other person, and to belittle their value and worth, and to refuse to honor contracts and agreements after the other person has already performed according to the contract.

Trump says that he will use his business experience to appropriately conduct himself with foreign leaders. But, he can't even properly conduct himself with a dishwasher at Mar-a-Lago, waitresses at Trump SOHO Tower, the small business construction contractors who built his Atlantic City casinos, or any of the other thousands and thousands of people whom Trump has swindled, defrauded, divested and despoiled.


Instead of accepting people who are different, Trump is a bigoted blowhard who openly calls for the expulsion and exclusion of those he perceives to be "The Enemy". Trump considers people who are not like him to be unusual, unacceptable, repulsive and repugant.




apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
"If Hillary gets in it will be just at least 4 more years of Obama."

Now you're talking!

+1!!!
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 20, 2016 - 07:33pm PT

A clueless, tactless, self-unaware, bombastic and narcissistic boor like Trump would probably just stomp his way into the Saudi royal palace, touch the face of the King with his left hand, stick his feet up on the table to show the King the soles of his shoes, and then demand that the King be served a plate of of Trump's famous New York City-style pork ribs, and a large glass of Trump Vodka to wash it all down.

That's exactly what i'd like to see. Why are we in bed with these bitch's anyway?

They've dictated both our repubs and demo's! Don't any of you see conspiracy in there??

IF we were a christian nation, we wouldn't touch them with a 10ft pole! Hillary Clinton says she's a "Christian" yet SHE accepted 25milllion from them to continue to run for the Presidency of the United States...

QUEER, to say the least!
Captain...or Skully

climber
Boise, ID or the fricken Bakken, variously
Jun 20, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
Donald is mostly just embarrassing.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
You don't have a vagina, Cosmic.

You don't get a vote on that one.

Do you know what Trumps position has been on abortion?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 20, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
"Not Really. But my, CHOICE, is not to vote for Hillary."

Your CHOICE is to vote for Trump.

Just can't fully own up to that, can you?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 07:59pm PT
BlueBlocr, America is not a Christian nation.

It is a melting pot of all types of people and their different religions.


The current Christian majority of the population is being slowly reduced by the immigration of Muslims and the conversion of citizens to Islam.

So what?



We're in bed with the Saudis because they are sitting on THE economic prize of our era - a magnificent, discovered treasure that is akin to digging up a diamond the size of a VW Beetle, or finding a lump of gold the size of a house.

We are in bed with the Saudis to maintain access to their gigantic pool of what is currently the most valuable economic resource for mankind: petroleum.


The Saudis have already demonstrated, as during the Oil Crises in 1973 and 1977, that they can be intractable when it is convenient for them. It only makes sense that the U.S. placate them to keep the oil deliveries coming.



If you don't like our being in bed with the oil-producing Saudis, you should ride your bike, instead of driving a car.

You should reduce your consumption of grid electricity to zero, with solar panels and batteries.

You should buy food at a local Farmers' Market that is grown with natural, composted fertilizers and on land that is worked and plowed by draft animals.

You should restrict or eliminate your use of the following materials whose production is energy and petroleum intensive:

 lumber and other milled forms of wood

 plastics

 steel, aluminum and other metals

 brick, cinderblock and other masonry building products

 concrete

 cotton fabric

 carbon fiber

 glass and glass fiber

 pottery and other ceramic products

 industrial chemicals of all types

 compressed gases, such as CO2 and nitrogen



That pretty much allows for animal hides for clothing and shelter, sapling trees to make a teepee, dried gourds for containing nuts and berries, and rocks to throw at wild animals that come too close.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:35pm PT
You can vote for Gary Johnson a former pot smoking, entrepreneur, libertarian. No way he'll get elected but you at least don't have to vote for Hillary or Donald. As a bonus you are increasing support for a party not fed millions of dollars by the same corporate interests controlling the republocrats.

Edit: in California it doesn't matter who you vote for, it will go Dem. We try to convince each other because we feel bad for people making choices we don't agree with.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:38pm PT
That's exactly what i'd like to see. Why are we in bed with these bitch's anyway?

They've dictated both our repubs and demo's! Don't any of you see conspiracy in there??

IF we were a christian nation, we wouldn't touch them with a 10ft pole! Hillary Clinton says she's a "Christian" yet SHE accepted 25milllion from them to continue to run for the Presidency of the United States...

QUEER, to say the least!


Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

You appear not to have any problem using oil sold to up by the Saudis.

If you don't know why we engage with that Saudis, your knowledge of the region is simply woeful.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
It is a melting pot of all types of people and their different religions.

America is a melting pot for different religions and all their trypes of people.

There fixed it for ya.

Be certain tho, our Nation was founded by Christians declaring an independence from government!

Edit; hence the foresight to include the independent need for a private well rehersed militia, along with the RIGHT to always possess and bear arms. Because they reconized it's the "Government" that's the evil posesser..
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
How can "they" pay for my insurance when "their" money is MY money??
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:59pm PT
WTF???????

Trump fired his campaign manager, his #1 advisor went into Twittershock and had to quit and . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . you guys are talking about the color of a cat in a photoshopped image????????




You libtard loonatard crankloonatard loons are stoopid . . . . . go and get it, I dare you.

Stoopid crankloonalibropolitards.

Go pet the cat. And then rub your eyes. Stoopid.


BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 20, 2016 - 09:00pm PT

Edit: BTW I'd vote for, Amputation

Yeah, amputation of that thread!
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 09:56pm PT
Republican delegates are anxiously seeking an option (ANY option) to seating Trump as their candidate for president.

It is technically possible for them to dump Trump in favor of someone else.


As the number of antagonistic delegates rises, so do the odds that Trump will repay his loans from campaign donations, quit the race, and stomp off in a huff.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/unconventional-special-report-hundreds-gop-000000630.html


BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 20, 2016 - 10:18pm PT

Your Constitution is based on secular principles. That's why freedom of religion is just as important as freedom from religion.

Quit trying to be confusing! You need to go study up(try reading america's history books, instead of canaduh's).

Freedom of Religion IS freedom from government..
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 20, 2016 - 10:23pm PT
voter registration is a primary tool used by investigators to track people. I guess if you don't have any thing to hide...
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 20, 2016 - 10:29pm PT
Blueblocr you are correct in that the puritans, and others, fled Europe because of religious persecution. However, the call for independence from Britain was about taxation without representation, and had little to do with religious persecution.
jstan

climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 11:01pm PT
As the number of antagonistic delegates rises, so do the odds that Trump will repay his loans from campaign donations, quit the race, and stomp off in a huff.

Another possibility is Trump could encourage supporters to write him in on their ballots. In a majority of states he would then have the impact of a third party. This would likely be the end of the republican party, at least as it has been known. Bottom line; Trump is their candidate.

Going forward the party's main focus will be on the congressional races. For those, raising big money will more difficult,
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 21, 2016 - 06:31am PT
Personal attacks don't help.

But we are talking about the possibility of giving the nuclear launch codes to Donald J. Trump, so that understandably gets people a little worked up.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 21, 2016 - 06:38am PT
You are such a goddamn jerk.

DMT

No. It's okay. Apogee's a diversity-embracing, open-minded, tolerant liberal. If he acts inappropriately to someone, they deserve it. Obviously.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 21, 2016 - 06:43am PT
Everybody chill the f out...." Kick you in the junk " is an old chinese saying that translates to love you long time...
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 21, 2016 - 07:27am PT
So "escoteeta"

We STILL are waiting for you on two lies

1) You said you had lost "individual liberties" and "freedoms", yet you can NOT name them

Here's a freedom Escopeta just lost, freedom from unlawful search and seizure.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-police-stop-20160620-snap-story.html
At a time of justified concern about arbitrary police stops, the Supreme Court on Monday made such harassment more likely rather than less. By a 5-3 vote, the court upheld the search of a drug defendant that grew out of a stop that the state conceded was unlawful.

The decision in a Utah case pokes yet another hole in an important principle: that courts may not consider evidence that is the result of an illegal search or seizure – the so-called “fruit of the poisonous tree.”

...Writing for the majority, Justice Clarence Thomas concluded that it didn’t matter if the officer had no basis on which to stop Strieff; the evidence was admissible anyway, Thomas said, because the link between the unconstitutional stop and the discovery of the drugs was “attenuated” by the officer’s discovery of an outstanding arrest warrant.

As Justice Sonia Sotomayor wrote in a powerful dissent: “This case allows the police to stop you on the street, demand your identification, and check it for outstanding traffic warrants — even if you are doing nothing wrong. If the officer discovers a warrant for a fine you forgot to pay, courts will now excuse his illegal stop and will admit into evidence anything he happens to find by searching you after arresting you on the warrant.” Sotomayor also noted that, although Strieff is white, “it is no secret that people of color are disproportionate victims of this type of scrutiny.”

So while the 2nd Amendment is sacrosanct, the 4th Amendment, not so much.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jun 21, 2016 - 07:38am PT
It blows my mind that anyone engages with klimmer at all for any reason.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 21, 2016 - 07:50am PT
Well yeah, because the rest of you retards are sooo tolerant and understanding.

Funny how much the liberal left gives lip service to tolerance and inclusiveness and yet they are the one's most likely to physically attack anyone that doesn't agree with their philosophy.

You gonna kick me in the junk too? lol.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jun 21, 2016 - 07:58am PT
Well yeah, because the rest of you retards are sooo tolerant and understanding.

Funny how much the liberal left gives lip service to tolerance and inclusiveness and yet they are the one's most likely to physically attack anyone that doesn't agree with their philosophy.

You gonna kick me in the junk too? lol.

I would.... if you had any.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 21, 2016 - 08:04am PT
No wonder the Bernie supporters and HIllary supporters showed up to Trump rallies looking for a fight.

Yes, let's hear more from the tolerant, liberal left. Lol
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 21, 2016 - 08:04am PT
No, Esco.... Because I don't think you're a troll. Hell, I'd probably buy you a beer.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 21, 2016 - 08:04am PT
All this junk kicking...

Over which evil circus clown is "not as bad".
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 21, 2016 - 08:12am PT
My response would be my address

vvvvv pretty funny
Norton

Social climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 08:18am PT
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jun 21, 2016 - 09:01am PT
"Funny how much the liberal left gives lip service to tolerance and inclusiveness and yet they are the one's most likely to physically attack anyone that doesn't agree with their philosophy."


Illegal alien arrested for attempted Trump assassination:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/Authorities-Man-at-Vegas-rally-said-he-wanted-to-8313643.php

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 21, 2016 - 09:06am PT
Actually on topic, from Marketwatch:

Donald Trump’s campaign is almost broke, and is paying an unusual amount of money to Trump-owned businesses. That’s according to the presumptive Republican presidential nominee’s FEC filing, details of which were released Monday night.

The report provided a number of rather shocking facts, including that his campaign raised just $3.1 million in May compared to Democratic rival Hillary Clinton’s $27 million.

In comparison, Mitt Romney’s campaign raised $86.5 million in May during the 2012 presidential race. And on Monday night alone, Clinton raised about $1.6 million at a celebrity-studded fundraiser in New York City.

Another eyebrow-raising tidbit: Of the $6.7 million the Trump campaign spent in May, nearly 20% went to Trump-owned businesses or family members.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 09:08am PT
yep

I just can't understand why Mr. Trump seems to bring out such dislike even hate in some people.

A 20 year old man here from Britain attempted to pull a gun from security to kill Trump

Heather Fraley, his assigned public defender, said Sandford appeared to be competent but has autism and has previously attempted suicide.

Sandford’s mother, meanwhile, told court researchers that he was treated for obsessive compulsive disorder and anorexia when he was younger, and that he once ran away from a hospital in Britain, the AP reported.

Sandford doesn’t have a criminal history, said Fraley

guess he was "mentally ill"
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 21, 2016 - 09:11am PT
Yeah, Chaz, cosmic posted that yesterday, followed by a comment like 'psycho libtards!'

Can you show me exactly where that article mentions the ideologic bent of that guy?
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jun 21, 2016 - 09:47am PT

An Invitation to Lemming's Landing

Politicians, lobbyists, mass shooters, and zealots,
Pedophiles and corporations selling guns and bullets,
There's a place that you can be,
Satisfied and worry free,
There's an open invitation for all those so repellent,

Step right up and feel the breeze,
No one cares if you're a sleaze,
It's your chance to be forgiven,
For the sh#t you pulled while livin,'
You can go out on your feet instead of on yer' knees,

So step right up now all you buggers,
To Lemmings Landing and meet the sluggers,
Step right up to the edge,
No back room deals to hedge,
Your admission has been paid by all the souls you've made to suffer,

Lemming's Landing is there there for all you partners in greed,
And there's never enough power to satisfy a politician's need,
For every psychotic killer,
And sociopath who loves a thriller,
The drop is long enough to think of what you've done before you bleed,

Now you've earned your invitation to launch from Lemming's Landing,
So step right up and step right off it isn't too demanding,
Now drop yer' cocks and grab yer' socks,
There's sharks down there below the rocks,
We'll give a little push so there's no misunderstanding.

-bushman
06/21/2016

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 21, 2016 - 10:05am PT
Cruz didn't lose to Trump solely because of Trump's media mastery- Cruz lost because few people were interested in what he had to offer. That, and his smarmy, slimy, untrustworthy demeanor pretty much doomed him.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 10:22am PT
The media turned on him? Turned?

Well, yes. The media gave Trump 8 times the coverage of any other Republican candidate prior to Super Tuesday, and generally stayed clear of focusing on negatives. As I predicted then, they waited until he became the presumptive nomineee, and HRC the presumptive Democrats' nominee, to spend any serious time on his deficiencies.

He is, indeed, a loser, but so are the American people, who deserve better from our journalists than being mere propagandists. I don't find that an excuse the for Republicans that voted for Trump, or the party's inability to offer a reasonable alternative. Trump and the Republicans have primarily themselves to blame, but that doesn't absolve the MSM's abysmal performance.

John
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 21, 2016 - 10:29am PT
An interesting development in the firing of Trump's campaign manager:


In their most recent FEC filing, the Donald Trump campaign revealed that they paid $35,000 to an ad agency that, by all appearances, doesn’t actually exist.

ThinkProgress’ Judd Legum caught the odd detail when poring over Trump’s financial statements.

Trump report includes three 10K payments to “Draper Sterling” for advertising

Who is going break it to him that it’s a fictional ad agency?

— Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) June 21, 2016

Draper Sterling is the name of the ad agency in AMC’s Mad Men. But Legum is right; Trump’s financial filings show that he made several payments to Draper Sterling in April of this year for web advertising.

The address listed for “Draper Sterling” is nothing more than a house in the middle of suburban New Hampshire. Here it is in Google Maps.

So what going on? Well there are two circumstantial clues. The first is that “Draper Sterling” is located a fifteen-minute drive and a town over from the hometown of former Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. The second…

Want some Trump news? The campaign is doing a forensic audit on all of Corey Lewandowski’s spending.

— Matt Mackowiak (@MattMackowiak) June 21, 2016
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 10:31am PT
I don't tune in here much, but I read your posts JE. The conservative voice of reason or the reasonable voice of conservatism.

Anyway, what is the MSM? Ha I just got it. Mainstream Media.

Carry on.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 21, 2016 - 10:32am PT
Yeah because it's just too much to spell that out
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 21, 2016 - 10:48am PT
Sorry if some of my barbs were a little too pointed yesterday, Cosmic. For the most part, my true motivation was to try to figure out why you could support Trump.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 11:07am PT
I think Donald should go to GoFundMe to raise money for his campaign

he is down to slightly over only one million dollars with 4 months to go

but he did say he had 10 billion of his own dollars and would fund his own campaign

time to start writing checks Donald, you can afford it, now do it
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 11:15am PT
For the most part, my true motivation was to try to figure out why you could support Trump.

I can see where you would have a problem with this. Frankly, the issue is that you are the political polar opposite of Klimmer who sees Trump as the great savior of our nation. You would put Hillary in the same category, whereas I consider her just another part of the machine that we need to fix. There is a decent chance I will vote for her out of desperation to make sure Trump does NOT get in. But If I feel there is another viable option, I WILL take it.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 21, 2016 - 11:19am PT
think Donald should go to GoFundMe to raise money for his campaign

he got way more money than any other candidate.. the one with the most money always seems to WIN..




the American people, who deserve better from our journalists than being mere propagandists

listening to NPR this AM I concluded the libs have a hard - ON when it comes to TRUMP and his YOUR FIRED!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 21, 2016 - 11:34am PT
Who could the party put up as an alternative, someone who lost in the primaries? They might as well throw their support behind Gary Johnson, he already has 10% and he is as nutty as most of Republicans

listening to NPR this AM I concluded the libs have a hard - ON when it comes to TRUMP and his YOUR FIRED!

yep, and it is going to last longer than four hours
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 21, 2016 - 11:37am PT
Make America Trump Again!!

By failing at, at least 15 businesses. And then don't pay the bills.


Trump Plaza, A.C. Casino

Trump Steaks

Trump Vodka

Trump Mortgage

Trump The Game

Trump Magazine

Trump University

Trump Ice

Trump NJ Generals

Trump On The Ocean

Tour de Trump

Trump Network

Trumped

Trump New Media

Go Trump.com
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 11:39am PT
Someone remind me, is Cragman Pro-Life?
Perhaps Cragman if he's still around will tell me.

I think so, but not sure.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 21, 2016 - 11:53am PT
There is a new word for what Trump is doing, "scampaign"

Dude is paying himself a salary and his kids and friends are living off the expected donations and party money that ain't going to happen

There are financial improprieties linked to the fired manager. This is going to get fun.

Norton

Social climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 11:55am PT
^^^^^^^^^

Mr. Trump began June with just $1.3 million in cash on hand, a figure more typical for a campaign for the House of Representatives than the White House. He trailed Hillary Clinton, who raised more than $28 million in May, by more than $41 million, according to reports filed late Monday night with the Federal Election Commission.

He has a staff of around 70 people — compared with nearly 700 for Mrs. Clinton — suggesting only the barest effort toward preparing to contest swing states this fall.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 21, 2016 - 11:57am PT
'cause it's all BS....

It's not hard to figure out.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
He is.

So Cragman, I've had to spend a lot of my time recently in zika research and policy. Naturally I've thought about Pro Life vs Pro Choice POVs as part of this process quite a bit.

You've hear of Zika I'm sure.

Would you make an exception to your Pro Life stance in the case of a patient afflicted with Zika? (a) in the case of a fetus at 2 months presenting with microcephaly? (b) 6 months presenting with microcephaly? (c) newborn, 9 months presenting with microcephaly?

Curious, your sentiments on this issue, if you care to share.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcephaly
Norton

Social climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
Reporter: "Mr Trump, would you drop out of the race for 5 billion dollars?"

Trump: "Well I'd have to think about it."
Norton

Social climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:08pm PT
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump


I am "the king of debt."That has been great for me as a businessman, but is bad for the country. I made a fortune off of debt, will fix U.S.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
HFCS
(c) 12 months presenting with microcephaly?

Not too sure you wanted to include the 12 month option here. Wouldn't that be a 3 month old infant?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
Thanks, skcreidc for the correction.

Will correct.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
Cragman, I appreciate the reply.

Thank you.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 01:43pm PT

Well, yes. The media gave Trump 8 times the coverage of any other Republican candidate prior to Super Tuesday, and generally stayed clear of focusing on negatives. As I predicted then, they waited until he became the presumptive nomineee, and HRC the presumptive Democrats' nominee, to spend any serious time on his deficiencies.


It wasn't great publicity, though. By the time the primaries were over he had very high unfavorable ratings. I saw plenty of negative coverage. The problem was that before the media had a chance to focus on any one event, it moved on to the next one.

Also, there were several campaigns running at the time,and fewer resources to focus on one candidate and dig deep, like they are doing now.

Cruz, Kasich, Rubio, etc. should have had the knives out from the get go, and for most of their campaigns they largely kissed his ass or went after each other. The failure to stop trump early is mostly their fault.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
Don't forget his 1990 deluxe commuter airline shuttle service from NY to Boston and DC. He wound up passing that off as part of a dimes-on-the-dollar combined default settlement that his bankers and investors reluctantly agreed to.


The Trump Shuttle story is a perfect example of how Trump operates.


Trump comes roaring into a situation, wielding his trademark brash bluster and outsized salesman's personality. He arrives heavily, or completely, financed with other people's money. He demands total control of the situation, and typically disrupts what is already occurring. He fails to properly learn the necessary, crucial details about the situation, and instead proposes and instigates arbitrary, bizarre and unworkable plans. When the situation becomes unmanageable, unstable, unprofitable or otherwise untenable, Trump unloads the mess onto someone else, at a tremendous loss to his employees, managers, suppliers, contractors, bankers and investors. Trump himself, though, walks away with the huge salaries and bonuses he has paid himself.

This is how he dealt with Trump Shuttle, and this is how he is running his campaign.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/04/the-crash-of-trump-air.html


At one point, Trump ordered Bruce Nobles, president of Trump Shuttle, to save money by illegally flying the 727 jets with only two pilots. The 727 was designed by Boeing to be flown by three pilots, it was certfied by the FAA to be flown with three pilots, and it would have been unsafe and illegal to fly the 727 with only two pilots.

Trump instigated a smear campaign against a competing airline, Pan Am Shuttle. Trump insinuated that Pan Am's planes were not safe to fly on, because they were old and the company was losing money (this was the exact same situation with Trump Shuttle, by the way). Trump's executives, like Nobles, were horrified by this because A) it was scaring passengers away from all airline travel, and B) the airlines had always existed as friendly competitors, willing to assist each other with over-booked flights, loaning spare parts, etc. Instead, Trump antagonized and alienated Pan Am, which was a giant, international airline with vastly superior resources. Trump Shuttle was just a puny fleet of a dozen ancient 727s.

Instead of educating himself about the business, Trump would just pull ideas like those from out of thin air, and put his management team and employees in uncomfortable and untenable situations.

After numerous disputes with Bruce Nobles, Trump fired him as president in the middle of 1990. In classic Trump style, he did not honor Noble’s severance contract.




That last is a perfect example of how Trump views defrauding people to be some sort of masterful Art of the Deal. Trump vigorously insists he receive top-quality, full value for himself. Then, when it's time for Trump to pay up, he weasels out his end of the bargain.

Trump has done this to his employees, executives and managers, to construction contractors, to bankers and investors, and to buyers of various Trumpian things, such as his now-debunked Trump University.











but he did say he had 10 billion of his own dollars and would fund his own campaign

time to start writing checks Donald, you can afford it, now do it




Trump doesn't have $10 billion. Many, many outside investigations, such as those by Forbes and Business Week magazines, have arrived at a figure that is closer to $100 million. Trump once sued an investigative reporter who wrote that Trump was worth about that much, and Trump lost that lawsuit. If the reporter had been wrong about Trump's net worth, Trump would have prevailed in court; ergo, the reporter was correct, and Trump is only worth about $100 million, which is only 1% of what he claims. The other 99% is imaginary vaporwealth.



Trump's figure $10 billion is, to put it mildly, highly unreliable and extremely unlikely to be even close to the truth.

Here's why:


First of all, Trump's financial figures have never been fully open to scrutiny by outside, objective investigators. He released a meager financial statement to the Federal Election Commission that cited wide ranges of values, but no details to back up those values. Trump refuses to release his IRS tax forms, citing an ongoing IRS audit (Nixon released his IRS forms during an IRS audit).

The only source of Trump's financial figures is Trump's big mouth, which has been repeatedly, consistently and irrefutably shown to be unreliable. Trump is, to be charitable, completely full of sh#t.


Second, even by Trump's own reckoning, over half of his net worth is attributable to the Trump brand. This is in addition to the value of tangible assets, like buildings and boxes of Chinese-made clothing, that have Trump emblazoned on them. Trump claims that the intangible brand name itself is worth $6 billion, a figure that Trump pulled right out of his ass, and which has been widely disputed by business analysts as being outrageously inflated.


Third, Mark Cuban examined Trump's meager financial disclosure to the Federal Election Commission, and Trump claimed to have something like $165 million in cash, securities and other liquid assets. Assuming, for moment, that figure is correct, it constitutes 1.65% of Trump's alleged $10 billion net worth. All the rest, 98.35%, must be in the form of his aging fleet of aircraft, his real estate holdings, his various businesses, his Trump brand, and other non-liquid assets. But, that $165 million figure came from Trump himself, and has not been independently verified.

Fourth, the value Trump puts on his real estate holdings doesn't take into account loans, liens, and other claims against the properties. He has done this for decades, with lawsuit depositions revealing the accounting chicanery. Trump also claims ownership stakes in projects that he has simply licensed his name to, and which he has no such ownership stake whatsoever (that has been revealed during several lawsuit depositions). So, again, Trump has inflated the value of his holdings, to artificially increase his pompously-boasted net worth figure.

Fifth, Trump claims his many businesses are worth hundreds of millions dollars. However, these privately-held businesses are not open to public scrutiny, so their actual value is unverifiable. The only source of financial information about these companies is, again, Trump's unreliable big mouth. Many of Trump's businesses, like Trump Steaks, Trump Vodka and Trump magazine, no longer exist, yet Trump continues to claim that they have significant value, amounting to tens and hundreds of millions of dollars.

Sixth, in a lawsuit deposition, Trump stated under oath that his net worth varies from day to day, according to his personal mood. This further indicates that any figure that Trump gives for his net worth is completely unreliable, and is simply an arbitrary, imaginary number that Trump has conjured from out of thin air.



Ironically, Trump's boastful statements about his inflated net worth have hurt him in the presidential campaign. Wealthy donors have withheld their traditionally large campaign donations this election cycle, because Trump keeps saying he has $10 billion in the bank. The big donors have no interest in donating money that would be used by Trump to pay himself back for his campaign loans. They figure that if Trump is so rich, he doesn't need their money.

The big donors, like the Koch brothers, are telling Trump to put his money where his big mouth is.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
TREAT PEOPLE WITH DIGNITY? HILLARY TAKES MILLIONS FROM REGIMES THAT BRUTALIZE WOMEN & LGBT RESIDENTS:

What Clinton said today, "If you believe as I do, America values hard work and treats people with dignity and offering everyone the chance to live our dreams and cares for those in need, well, the formula for America's success have always been that we are stronger together."

Versus

Behind closed doors, Hillary Clinton uses State Department access and favors to rake in massive sums of money from some of the most oppressive regimes on planet Earth.

“Rarely, If Ever, Has A Potential Commander In Chief Been So Closely Associated With An Organization That Has Solicited Financial Support From Foreign Governments.” “Rarely, if ever, has a potential commander in chief been so closely associated with an organization that has solicited financial support from foreign governments. Clinton formally joined the foundation in 2013 after leaving the State Department, and the organization was renamed the Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation.” (Rosalind S. Helderman and Tom Hamburger, “Foreign Governments Gave Millions To Foundation While Clinton Was At State Dept.,” The Washington Post, 2/25/15)

Instead Of Highlighting Her Work On Women’s Rights, Hillary Clinton Now “Finds Herself Under Attack For Her Family Foundation’s Acceptance Of Millions Of Dollars In Donations From Middle Eastern Countries Known For Violence Against Women And For Denying Them Many Basic Freedoms.” “It was supposed to be a carefully planned anniversary to mark one of the most important and widely praised moments in Hillary Rodham Clinton’s political career — and to remind the country, ahead of a likely 2016 presidential campaign, about her long record as a champion for the rights of women and girls. Instead, as Mrs. Clinton commemorates her 1995 women’s rights speech in Beijing in back-to-back events in New York, she finds herself under attack for her family foundation’s acceptance of millions of dollars in donations from Middle Eastern countries known for violence against women and for denying them many basic freedoms. This was not how she intended to reintroduce herself to American voters.”(Amy Chozick, “Hillary Clinton Faces Test Of Record As Women’s Advocate,” The New York Times, 3/8/15)

“The Donations From Countries With Poor Records On Women’s Rights, However, Presented A Difficult Appearance Problem For A Candidate Running In Part As The Embodiment Of Women’s Aspirations To Equality.” (Amy Chozick, “Hillary Clinton Faces Test Of Record As Women’s Advocate,” The New York Times, 3/8/15)

Some Contributions Have Been From Governments And Companies With “Spotty Human Rights Records And Business Before The U.S. Government.” “While Clinton is the prohibitive favorite to win the Democratic nomination, her nascent candidacy has been plagued by criticism surrounding her family foundation’s acceptance of contributions from foreign governments and companies in countries with spotty human rights records and business before the U.S. government.” (Kenneth Vogel and Josh Gerstein, “Moroccan Cash Flows To Clinton Foundation,” Politico, 4/8/15)
The Clinton Foundation Has Accepted Between $21,250,009 And $65,500,000 From Middle Eastern Countries With Policies Hostile Toward Women’s Rights, Gay Rights And Human Rights. (Clinton Foundation, Accessed 3/15/16)

Donald Trump
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:28pm PT
a klimmer/pyro double shot. Could someone read that gibberish and report back.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
I love Klimmie's posts now as they allow me to skip yuuuuuge blocks of text
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
Klimmer, since you are determined to go the "visionary" route and continue to call God "G-d," please answer my simple question from upthread. It's relevant, given the context in which you put everything.

Simple, simple question: Do you keep the seventh-day, Jewish Sabbath (Saturday) according to the fourth commandment or not?

Because that one's so simple (yes or no), here's a related one: Do you keep holy the Hebrew and Jewish feast days?

Now, back to your regularly scheduled Trump-bash....
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
In evaluating Trump's net worth, it's easy to conflate asset-valuation with "income." This article sorts it out better than most, imo:

http://fortune.com/2016/05/23/doland-trump-net-worth/

He could probably sell off his assets in toto for between one and three billion. However, his "income" is closer to the figure Tom is citing.

Nowhere close to ten billion, but he probably does have a net worth of somewhere between one and three billion (the vast majority of which is not liquid and can't be readily tapped for campaign financing except in the sense of collateralizing new debt).
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:03pm PT
This country is in desperate need of another VIABLE option!

15,805,000. The number of Democrats who voted for Hillary. Including me. Viable enough.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
Second, even by Trump's own reckoning, over half of his net worth is attributable to the Trump brand. This is in addition to the value of tangible assets, like buildings and boxes of Chinese-made clothing, that have Trump emblazoned on them. Trump claims that the intangible brand name itself is worth $6 billion, a figure that Trump pulled right out of his ass, and which has been widely disputed by business analysts as being outrageously inflated.


Unless Trump can actually get his act together, I feel a deflationary period coming hard and fast on the Trump brand's net worth.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
Madbolter1: Forbes, Business Week, et al determined Trumps net worth, not income, to be in the range of $100-$300 million. If they now say $1-$3 billion, that is still just an educated guess.

It is nearly impossible to determine just how much of Trump's real estate empire is tied up with loans and liens. Similarly, his aging fleet of jets and helicopters could have loans and liens against them. There are public records of some mortgage debt, but Trump could have leveraged himself to the hilt (or even further) with secret, private loans, especially from foreign investors. Trump would naturally be drawn to secret loans, and be repelled by proper mortgages that involve public records at City Hall. Trump always inflates the market value of what he owns, including his real estate properties.

Trump might claim a $1 billion value for Trump Tower, but it might have $700 million in hidden debt against it, and only have a realistic sale value of $500 million, for a true value of negative $200 million. Trump would continue to say that the Tower adds $1 billion to his net worth.

Similarly, his income and cash flow is unknowable. Trump would naturally boast about the size of his "income" and then cite a figure that a reliable accountant would call "gross revenue". Again, Trump's accounting chicanery, verbally stated for the public's wonderment, is to downplay or completely ignore expenses that offset the gross value being stated. Net income is revenue minus expenses, but Trump would not hesitate to violate everything he learned at the Wharton Business School, and report gross revenue as being his net income.

It's what he does. He has done this for decades.



There is no doubt that Trump is wealthy. But, like himself, and like everything he is selling to the public, the financial figures he presents are larger than (in real) life.



During various lawsuits, divorces, etc. Trump's financial statements have consistently been much lower than what he verbally proffers to the public. This may be a legal tactic to reduce what he has to pay out, and it may be because falsifying his financials while under oath would be perjurious, and Trump doesn't want to wind up, like Martha Steward, in a Danbury prison.






Trump's net worth is apparently much less than it would have been if he had simply invested his massive inheritance in index-based mutual funds.

So much for Trump being the Master Businessman of all time.


skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
15,805,000. The number of Democrats who voted for Hillary. Including me.

perhaps.....

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

I am "the king of debt."That has been great for me as a businessman, but is bad for the country. I made a fortune off of debt, will fix U.S.

10:55 AM - 21 Jun 2016

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:28pm PT
^^^^^^^^^ I think she thought she was signing up to be a pole worker, not a poll worker.

Come on Locker, show me some LOVE.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:39pm PT
Thanks for the answer, Klimmer. At least you appear to be minimally doctrinally consistent. I was just curious.

I still find your delineation of what names are "proper" and what names are not to be arbitrary and deeply confused. But this isn't the place to argue that issue.

To your points regarding Trump, I remain baffled why you hold him in such religious-fervor esteem. But don't take that as a "request" for further explanation. Please.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
LOL ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

But seriously. Did you watch the vid? Are you picking up what I'm putting down?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:49pm PT
I am "the king of debt."That has been great for me as a businessman, but is bad for the country. I made a fortune off of debt, will fix U.S.


That is a remarkable statement: misleading and delusional at the same time.



Trump, as the King of Debt, has burned just about all the bankers and investors who have ever dealt with him. Trump's idea of Kingly Debt Management is to default on loans, and renegotiate them on terms more favorable to himself. He takes out huge loans for his grandiose projects, siphons off huge sums for himself, and then passes off the bankrupted wreckage to the banks instead of paying them back with money, as agreed upon.



Trump doesn't even hide from the fact that he has made a fortune in this manner. He boasts about using bankruptcy laws to enrich himself. He brags about how his mastery of The Art of the Deal ensures that he always walks away from the bargaining table the Big Winner, with the other guys being the Pathetic Losers.


Negotiation is about give and take. I give a little, but I mostly take.




Now Trump says that debt is bad for the country, and he will fix the U.S.

How?

By defaulting on the nation's debt, and renegotiating with its lenders to pay them less than what is owed?

By signing over bankrupted wreckage (Federal lands and assets) as part of a dimes-on-the-dollar settlement package with the Chinese government?

Is he is going to bully holders of U.S.-backed bonds into taking 20 cents on the dollar (Take it or leave it, losers)?

overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 21, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
Tom is a pro.

If there were ever any one I would consider using Grease Monkey on its Klittmeir
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 21, 2016 - 04:17pm PT
"You don't really need a key..."

A well-placed kick should do the trick...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 21, 2016 - 04:25pm PT
Its officially a fetish.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 21, 2016 - 04:29pm PT
Well, I guess everyone who is griping about Trump and his bankruptcies just ain't religious:

Deuteronomy 15:1 "At the end of every seventh year you must cancel the debts of everyone who owes you money."

I guess Trump is just being very religious with himself.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
Wait till November. A prophecy has been given. Let's see if it holds true. So far so good. I think Trump will win the election in a landslide even though Hillary will have spent hundreds of millions of dollars far more than Trump. Even when it might appear that trump is gonna lose, I believe he will win big. G-d loves suspense. He tests our faith.

We will see.


It will be supernatural. A G-d thing.


Please quit teaching kids science.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 21, 2016 - 05:23pm PT
Klimmer said:
Trump can be used by G-d. He doesn't have to be a man of G-d. It helps. He does have some faith. But just like G-d used King Cyrus, he wasn't a man of G-d, but G-d used him for his purposes. There are many flaws that Trump has. He's human. But there are many right things about him too.

Cyrus is one of the people in the Bible Yahweh Called Messiah, so it must be so. The Bible is holy scripture, is it not?
Isaiah 45:1
Thus saith the YHWH to his Messiah, to Cyrus, whom I have taken by his right hand to subdue Gentiles before him and to loose the loins of kings. To open before him the two-leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut:


YHWH didn't even call Moses or Abraham Messiah.

Are you saying Trump is Messiah?
Coach37

Social climber
Philly
Jun 21, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
Cyrus is one of the people in the Bible Called Messiah

Billy Ray or Miley?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 21, 2016 - 05:38pm PT

Billy Ray or Miley?

Nah. Before that.

He was known as The Great ( before Ali) and the Greeks knew him as Cyrus the Elder.
Wings and all...Gives us old farts hope.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 21, 2016 - 05:41pm PT
A federal lawsuit filed Monday in New York accuses Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump of repeatedly raping a 13-year-old girl more than 20 years ago, at several Upper East Side parties hosted by convicted sex offender and notorious billionaire investor Jeffrey Epstein.

The suit, first reported by the Real Deal, accuses Trump and Epstein of luring the anonymous plaintiff and other young women to four parties at Epstein's so-called Wexner Mansion at 9 East 71st Street. Epstein allegedly lured the plaintiff, identified in the suit only as Jane Doe, with promises of a modeling career and cash.
Another anonymous woman, identified in additional testimony as Tiffany Doe, corroborates Jane's allegations, testifying that she met Epstein at Port Authority, where he hired her to recruit other young girls for his parties.
Trump had known Epstein for seven years in 1994 when he at

tended the parties at Wexner, according to the suit. He also allegedly knew that the plaintiff was 13 years old.http://addictinginfo.org/2016/06/21/breaking-donald-trump-is-being-sued-for-repeatedly-raping-a-13-year-old/
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 21, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
Trump is folding this month

But then I remembered the Biblical Prophecies!!!
so the poles must be way off, because Prophecies are always reliable.

Maybe Trump will rebound and take the poles back above his current dismal low 20s, which he needs desperately to be a viable candidate, Hillary is above 42%

all he needs is for about 25% of the population to see the light and convert to Cult Trump,
I don't anticipate any problems for that happening, any day now!!
He loves the Blacks, maybe they will vote for him!

Breaking News!
Trump needs money!
We should all donate to Trump, just to enable the prophecies to come true, it's your Christian duty.

Then Klimmer will to be right on the money
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 21, 2016 - 06:05pm PT

Wait till November. A prophecy has been given. Let's see if it holds true.

If. I thought you were positive.
So when it doesn't happen, isn't that proof that God doesn't exist?

Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jun 21, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
Vote Hillary, for Klimmer's sanity.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 21, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
Every one of Trump's businesses has been a scam of some sort
or con

I think that's why the conspiracy gullible love Trump
He pushes all their buttons just right.

They are not only Trump supporters, they are also the con man's dream dupe.
Put them on a list for all conspiratory scams as marks to work.


Are there ST posters that vote on the basis OF:: Pro-Life.

I sure hope not,
women are already dying in some Red States for these extreme anti-life abortion restrictions. It's another right wing wedge issue hate campaign that hurts women.
Let women decide, keep your opinions to yourself, you don't like abortion, DON"T HAVE ONE, period...
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 21, 2016 - 06:32pm PT
People who need to use using Grease Monkey are sterile .....

That's why I said if, like I said I look forward to them now so that I can scroll past large chunks of text.

I may be though I hope I am
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 21, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
He changed his stance for political purposes...

Who hasn't? Clinton certainly has.

If you really want to bash on him, you can do far better than that.

I recommend (wishing I had coined it) the withering insult: "Your father smells of elderberries."

In this election, the deciding principle should be: Trump smells of elderberries; Clinton does not. (Who cares whether or not either do? Objective facts are entirely irrelevant. The election is all about perception.)

Pundits and media assure us: Trump does smell of elderberries to many interviewers and bystanders. Thus, Clinton simply must trump Trump. That's the only rational outcome, given the elderberries and all.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 21, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
MP was beyond brilliant. LOL
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 21, 2016 - 06:53pm PT
Hillary's victory is a foregone conclusion...Might as well start turning in your guns...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 21, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
Falwell: 'Every Terrorist In The World Will Crawl Under A Rock' When Trump Becomes President

6/21/16 @ 12:40pm
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/


Today, Liberty University president Jerry Falwell Jr. hailed Donald Trump as a “bold and fearless leader” ready to fight America’s enemies and bad trade partners. Falwell, speaking at the Religious Right meeting with the presumptive GOP nominee, said that just as Ronald Reagan free... MORE
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 21, 2016 - 07:23pm PT
In the name of Trump, Klimmer says:

I command you in the name of the being who must not be named to open the gates of this sacred white house, to which G-d H-ms-lf has guided us.

When we question this quest:

In the name of the L-rd, we demand entrance to this sacred white house.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
The Power of Trump compels Klimmer. The Power of Trump compels Klimmer . . . . . .





God created the golden locker to store the truth.

All one needs is the right combination to open .....



Somewhere in the San Jacinto mountains, near Tahquitz Rock, is a cave where Scientologists have hidden a giant hoard of titanium boxes containing stainless steel pages engraved with transcriptions of all of L.Ron Hubbard's sermons, speeches, lectures, writing, books, etc.



Are those the golden lockers?

Some titanium alloys kinda look like gold.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 21, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
You people ARE insane

LOL

Well, since I must be included in "you people," take THIS....

I unclog my nose in your direction.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 21, 2016 - 09:23pm PT

Jun 21, 2016 - 04:29pm PT
Well, I guess everyone who is griping about Trump and his bankruptcies just ain't religious:

Deuteronomy 15:1 "At the end of every seventh year you must cancel the debts of everyone who owes you money."

I guess Trump is just being very religious with himself.__

I think the Donald is more a proverbs guy.

The rich rules over the poor, And the borrower becomes the lender's slave.
Proverbs 22:7
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 22, 2016 - 12:59am PT
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 22, 2016 - 05:33am PT
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 22, 2016 - 06:32am PT
Wow, seriously you want to go there making accusations that Donald Trump raped a 13 year girl? Seems more than made up.

You'd believe it if Judicial Watch accused Clinton of raping a 13 year old girl.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 22, 2016 - 07:02am PT
You'd believe it if Judicial Watch accused Clinton of raping a 13 year old girl.

Nice redirect. Sure beats answering the question.

This rape story was in the news two months ago. And then it died for obvious reasons.

Getting back to elderberries, this whole scene is hysterical. Sorry about the subtitles.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

You don't frighten us, English pig-dogs! Go and boil your
bottoms, sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called
Arthur-king, you and all your silly English kaniggets. Thppppt!
Norton

Social climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 07:15am PT
June 20.2016
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK --------------------------------------------------------------- JANE DOE, proceeding under a pseudonym, Plaintiff, v. DONALD J. TRUMP and JEFFREY E. EPSTEIN, Defendants. ))))))))) Case No.: JURY TRIAL DEMANDED -------------------------------------------------------

COMPLAINT FOR RAPE, SEXUAL MISCONDUCT, CRIMINAL SEXUAL ACTS, SEXUAL ABUSE, FORCIBLE TOUCHING, ASSAULT, BATTERY, INTENTIONAL AND RECKLESS INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS, DURESS, FALSE IMPRISONMENT, AND DEFAMATION


https://www.scribd.com/doc/316386913/Doe-V-Donald-Trump
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 22, 2016 - 07:21am PT
Echo....







Echo.....



Echo......



This thing on?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 22, 2016 - 07:47am PT
The same plaintiff (I think) tried this in California, back in April.

Johnson filed the lawsuit pro se, meaning she is representing herself. No attorney is listed in the court documents. The phone number she lists in the filing is disconnected. It was previously listed as a cell phone number for a California dentist, who could not be reached.

Her listed address is a house in Twentynine Palms, California, that has been foreclosed and is vacant, neighbors told Radar Online. Court documents show that mail sent by the court to Johnson was returned to the sender.

Seems legit.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 22, 2016 - 07:53am PT
"Seems more than made up."

You do see the irony in a statement like this coming from you, don't you?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 22, 2016 - 07:59am PT
The rape story would have more credibility if it were on Fox news, the fair and balanced news source..
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 22, 2016 - 08:02am PT
Trump was using 13 yr. olds to make him look yuge...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 22, 2016 - 08:04am PT
Yes....it made his hands look bigger....
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 22, 2016 - 08:14am PT
Nice redirect. Sure beats answering the question.

There was a question involved? I was just pointing out Klimmer has different standards for fiction depending on whose ox is getting gored.

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 22, 2016 - 08:19am PT
J.K. Rowling declared Trump “fascist in all but name” in an essay titled “On Monsters, Villains and the EU Referendum,” which was posted on her website this week.

“Look towards the Republican Party in America and shudder. ‘Make America Great Again!’ cries a man who is fascist in all but name,” she wrote. “His stubby fingers are currently within horrifyingly close reach of America’s nuclear codes. He achieved this pre-eminence by proposing crude, unworkable solutions to complex threats. Terrorism? ‘Ban all Muslims!’ Immigration? ‘Build a wall!’ He has the temperament of an unstable nightclub bouncer, jeers at violence when it breaks out at his rallies and wears his disdain for women and minorities with pride. God help America. God help us all.”
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 22, 2016 - 08:34am PT
^^^ Clearly someone who entertains children with talking owls also harbors fantastic notions
about the USA nuclear weapons protocols.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jun 22, 2016 - 08:53am PT
Self-proclaimed "King of Debt".

I think that just about says it all.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 22, 2016 - 09:50am PT
Yes he has posted multiple times about encouraging people to think of his daughter as his girlfriend, although he has probably back edited it out by now.

I know I can't be the only one who saw it
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jun 22, 2016 - 09:50am PT
We cant all be into buttplugs Locker. With your temperment, it seems its time you removed yours! ;)
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 22, 2016 - 09:52am PT
It was way back in the thread when I actually was reading his post a little bit

I am sure Locker saw it too that's why he is posting what he posted.

Klammer tried to play it off like a joke but it didn't seem too funny to me
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 22, 2016 - 09:59am PT
I'm sure he will chime in with some backpedaling explanation but I found it creepy as f*#k and I said so
dirtbag

climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 10:12am PT
Damn I wish I saw the quote.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 22, 2016 - 10:32am PT
I know I can't be the only one who saw it

yeah, anyone who has followed this thread has seen it.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 22, 2016 - 10:39am PT
Back to Trump.

Bloomberg report has a story today on what goes on at Trump's most valuable property, 40 Wall Street.

http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-trump-40-wall-street/

Besides his own scams with Trump U and Trump Mortgage, the place is a den for fake investment houses and at least two brokers who faked their own deaths when their ponzy schemes were uncovered.

And it was a place wher Marcos family money was stashed.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 22, 2016 - 10:50am PT
Back to Trump.

why?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 10:53am PT
Anyone catch the latest chant of the Trumpster/Chumpsters?

"build the wall, kill them all"


EDIT:

Apparently it was two separate lines:

Crowd chanting BUILD THAT WALL over operatic music.

Bragging he took away [press] credentials from WA Post [Washington Post]. Crowd yells “Kill them all.”


dirtbag

climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 10:54am PT
Donald Trump Accuses Hillary Clinton of Corruption as Secretary of State
[Tessa Berenson]
June 22, 2016


Donald said it, I believe it, that settles it.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 22, 2016 - 11:10am PT
Hey Klimmer
You donating to Trump

He needs money for his campaign

He's getting a lot of money from the big money establishment insiders
like he said he wouldn't, because he said he doesn't need their money

but since he is a liar, now he needs their money

His Company is paying himself to run for President, $15,000 a month.

So make sure you send him a lot of money, because basically he's pocketing it all and using you marks for his get richer con
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 22, 2016 - 11:20am PT
Glimmer cries out for substance and facts and then presents the lynchpin of his hate for Hillary, a giant bumper sticker. Dude, you are an amazing performance artiste

<sarcasm>Trumps speech was just awesome, lots of facts and substance></sarcasm>
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 22, 2016 - 11:27am PT
locker

climber
"STFU n00b!!!"

Jun 22, 2016 - 09:32am PT

Klimmer...

you would fit right in...

You too have a thing for young GIRLS...

You should invite some to go with you, with the promise of a free trip to see the Ark on the Moon...

Locker - You're essentially calling him a pedophile and a rapist.

How about some actual quotes to back up your claims?

Here's an old Locker quote.

Whomever it was that posted that pedophile crap went way too far and should have in my opinion, been booted...


Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 22, 2016 - 11:30am PT
Right...

Trump the model maker extraordinaire...


Yes, that is one of his businesses. Paris Hilton was a client of Trump Model Management.

http://www.trumpmodels.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Model_Management







TRUMP LURED, CAPTURED, AND ENSLAVED AN UNDERAGE JAMAICAN GIRL

SHE WAS HELD PENNILESS AND HELPLESS IN A TRUMP NYC APARTMENT

SHE ENDURED A LIFE OF SLAVERY, MISERY AND PENURY FOR THREE YEARS



Trump is being sued by one of his models. She says that as a child, she was captured and enslaved by Trump and his modeling agency.

“That’s what slavery people do,” the model told ABC News. “You work and don’t get no money.”

Trump fraudulently lured her from her home in Jamaica, bringing her to New York City when she was 17-years old, with promises of fame and fortune. She was told she would work "full time" and earn in excess of $75,000 per year. Instead, her cumulative earnings were less than $5000 after three years of being under Trump's control of how and when she would work.


Trump's modeling agency took 80 percent of her earnings as expenses and fees, but only found her 21 shoots over three years.

Under the terms of her visa, she could not work anywhere else if she wanted to stay in the U.S.

Trump kept her in a state of extreme penury, so that she was a captive without the resources to leave the Trump agency, or to obtain a modification to her visa so that she could obtain work elsewhere.

Trump brought her to NYC, obtained the exclusive rights to her as a fashion model, didn't obtain modeling work for her, prevented her from working as a model for any other agency, and held her captive and destitute in a crowded downscale apartment that she shared with a number of similarly-treated young women.

Trump's agency declared the model to be an employee to obtain her special H1-B immigration visa, but now the agency's defense to the slavery lawsuit is that there was never an employer/employee relationship between the agency and the model, and that the agency never promised her anything, and that Trump's agency doesn't owe her anything.

Classy.


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-model-felt-slave-working-donalds-agency/story?id=37313993








Trump's skeleton closet is a fricken labyrinth. No matter how far you go into it, or how many turns you take, you will always find another, even more shocking Tale of Pure Sordidness.


Yesterday, the Tale was, Trump raped a 13-year old child.

Today, the Tale is, Trump captured and enslaved a 17-year old child.



. . . . . . . . . I am afraid to find out what tomorrow's Tale will be.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 22, 2016 - 11:41am PT
"Yes he has posted multiple times about encouraging people to think of his daughter as his girlfriend, although he has probably back edited it out by now.

I know I can't be the only one who saw it"



Yes he has

He probably has already done that

No, you're not


Is it any wonder he idolizes Trump?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 22, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
You gotta cut Klimster a break. We all know what a religious Christian he is, and he's just using the bible for guidance.

Let's not forget Abraham married his half sister Sarah , or that Lot banged both his daughters ( though they got him drunk - things haven't changed), or that the book of Samuel calls sex with your half sister 'unusual' but doesn't condemn it.

Sex with your daughter is among the relationships that isn't prohibited. Here's a chart to help you navigate your way through it.


Sex with grandma seems a bit creepy.

( you are welcome, Klim.)


Btw, lesbian sex is nowhere condemned in the bible specifically. So even if his claim that Hillary is a lesbian is true, it's ok in scripture just as sex with your daughter is.

I'm not sure what the view is on having sex with your daughter after you sell her into slavery....
But both are OK.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 22, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
Sure thing, Locker.

You post a line from a story about Trump allegedly raping a 13 year old girl, followed by:

Klimmer...

you would fit right in...

You too have a thing for young GIRLS...

Sleazy.

Edit: I went back a looked for Klimmer referring to his daughter as his girlfriend. It was obviously a joke. One that everyone got.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 22, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
STOP MAKING THIS THE "READY FOR KLIMMER?" TOPIC


Do not pet or feed the wild trolls.



Labor law attorneys and investigators have been troubled by irregularities and fee-structure opacity in the fashion model industry for years. Labor and wage abuse of the young, inexperienced women is common.

But, in classic Trump style, he goes above and beyond what is common.

One attorney said the slavery lawsuit against Trump has "Got to be on the far end of the curve."


In an industry that is notoriously infested by nefarious exploiters of children, Trump stands head and shoulders above all the rest.

dirtbag

climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
Tom has a point about not feeding Klimmer.

I'm guilty of this too.

Let's get back to trump.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 22, 2016 - 12:33pm PT
"Sleazy."...

That's exactly how Klimmer comes across...

Locker and Klimmer.

Two peas in a pod.

Like-minded souls.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 22, 2016 - 12:55pm PT
Bloomberg news says that Trump's 40 Wall Street office tower is a veritable den of thieves, schemers, frauds, rogues and exiled despots.

http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-trump-40-wall-street/


Trump can't control what his tenants do at 40 Wall Street, but "no U.S. address has been home to more of the unregistered brokerages that investors complain about, according to the Securities and Exchange Commission’s current public alert list".

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 22, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
Klimmer = John Miller = John Baron = Donald Trump


I now understand why everyone wants to bash Klimmer, instead of bashing Trump.

Klimmer IS Trump



Since this is now the Ready for Klimmer?" thread, here's the story:


The slavery lawsuit against Klimmer says that his modeling agency would target young, naive girls in foreign lands, bring them to New York City, and then exploit them with unpaid work, wage theft, and crowded, squalid living conditions. While sexual harassment and sexual assault of the attractive young women can be assumed to have been part of their horrific existence, those allegations are not included in the present lawsuit.

Klimmer Model Management would hire the young, often underage, models in order to obtain special work visas for them under the H1-B Visa program. The H1-B program was intended to facilitate the immigration of skilled technologists and engineers who were in short supply in America.

Instead, Klimmer's agency abused the program, and falsified documents to make it appear that the models they were bringing to New York City would be high-earning, full-time employees actively contributing to the national economy. As shown in the present lawsuit against Klimmer, the Jamaican model's H1-B application states that she would be working "full time" and earning $75,000 per year.

Investigators discovered that instead of earning good salaries and living in reasonable conditions, Klimmer's modeling agency failed to pay the models properly, and housed the young girls, up to eight per bedroom, in crowded, downscale apartments in seedy neighborhoods.

The models had no control over when, or if, they would work. When they did work, Klimmer's agency took 80%, or more, of the models' earnings as payment for food, rent, clothing, makeup, travel, management fees, etc. Often, the models never received even their small portion of what they had earned during a fashion show or photo shoot.


Klimmer's daughter, Ivanka, was a successful, highly-paid fashion model when she was a teenager. Klimmer has cited her as an example of how anyone can succeed if they work hard enough.

Ivanka Klimmer's extraordinary experience, as a rich and privileged young woman playing Supermodel at Daddy Klimmer's modeling agency, has been cited by Klimmer's attorneys as proof that the enslaved Jamaican model is "Just some loser trying to cash in".


crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 22, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
By NICK GASS 06/22/16 01:31 PM EDT
Donald Trump and Sarah Palin will kick off a major conservative convention together on July 1 in Denver, organizers of the Western Conservative Summit announced Wednesday.
The former Alaska governor and 2008 vice-presidential candidate will speak, as will Trump on the first day of the summit, which bills itself as the "largest gathering of conservatives outside of Washington, DC." Organizers told The Denver Post that Palin's speech will be a half hour and Trump is slated to speak for an hour, though the order has not been determined.

Talk about 90 minutes of hell. Or hilarity.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
Yall are klimmer's bitches. Face it.


No!!!


;-)



We weren't rokjox's or the chief's bitches, either.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 22, 2016 - 02:28pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^

Record the Denver speeches, and then edit the whole mess down to about five minutes of the craziest, stupidest things ever said in public.

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 22, 2016 - 02:38pm PT
http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/congressional-candidate-wants-make-america-white/
dirtbag

climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
True dat, yo.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 22, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
It's the Klimmer show because Klimmer seems like a real nice guy,
and he responds to questions and debates, unlike most right wingers.

We all want to save the poor little fella, slap him in the face and yell "snap out of it dude"

But he is a stubborn little bitch, no logic or reasoning seems to have an effect on him.

And now that he is bottom feeding with these conspiracy low life's, we feel the need to step up our efforts
these lies and liars are pure evil, not something a Christian should be working on promoting
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 03:31pm PT
Pride
Envy
Wrath
Gluttony
Lust
Sloth
Greed

Note that neither pedophilia nor pederasty made the 7 ignominious wonders of the world


Interesting too that Trump exhibits all of the big 7 and could possibly be guilty of the two other P's.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 22, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
^^^^^^

I'm not so sure Trump is guilty of SLOTH.

He is like the Ritalin Bunny, roaring around from one place and project to the next, subsisting on four hours of sleep each night (or, so he claims).


He certainly seems to have a lot of physical energy and pep when it comes to mocking disabled people.


dirtbag

climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
What about "Being a big-time dick"?

Isn't that frowned upon?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 22, 2016 - 04:13pm PT
Trump wants to outlaw unions and make every state a right to work state and do away with prevailing wage jobs...He wants to make America great again...?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
The Social Security Board of Trustees has just released its annual report to Congress. It shows that Social Security has a large and growing surplus, and its future cost is fully affordable. Indeed, a greatly expanded Social Security is fully affordable.

According to the new report, Social Security is 100 percent funded for the next eighteen years. It is 95 percent funded for the next 25 years. It is 87 percent funded for the next fifty years. And 84 percent funded for the next three-quarters of a century.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
He wants to make America great again...?

It was great for fat cats like him.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 22, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
Yall are klimmer's bitches. Face it.

Noooo

I can't

I won't

I fart in your general direction.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 22, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
BTW, the Bible isn't so clear on a lot of sexual issues. It is interesting indeed that man/man homosexuality is singled out for special condemnation, when, for example, adultery is pretty wide-open spaces and very paternalistic in focus.

Of course, in a woman-as-chattel society, it makes sense that a man lusting after his neighbor's wife (property) would be criminal, while a single woman lusting after her neighbor's husband would not be worthy of mention.

This sort of thing is why I have NO use for the religious right attempting to cram their "take" on Scriptural mores down everybody's throats as LAW.

So, for Klimmer and others like him: This sort of thing is why we enjoy (and should fight to maintain) a STRONG separation between church and state, between "scriptural morals" and laws, and keep the church from EVER being able to wield the power/force of the state again.

However, 85% of American citizens self-identify as Christian, and if the left pushes society too far to the left, you can count on a reaction. And that reaction just might push society back toward a full-blown right-wing fascism. Trump is less scary than Cruz in this regard. But he's scary in his own right.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 22, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
Yer farts smell like elderberries...

Dang it!

I drink mint smoothies for that.

Have to try something else.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 22, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
if the left pushes society too far to the left, you can count on a reaction


The left pulls society too far to the left, and the right pulls society too far to the right.

Like two little kids fighting over a piece taffy, the middle gets stretched thinner and thinner and thinner until the middle breaks.


And then, there is no more middle.

There is just a left piece, and a right piece, and they no longer have any connection to each other.







You stoopid American cranktoon leotards each too much candy . . . . . . .

Norton

Social climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
Parents who hand their teen aged children over to the art school graduates populating the "fashion" industry are guilty of child abandonment.

as are those who do not realize their daughter is majoring in 13th century French Literature.....
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 22, 2016 - 06:08pm PT
[According to a report from Michael Hicks, Ball State professor, 9 out 10 manufacturing jobs have been lost to mechanization, not trade policies. "No matter how you measure it, 2015 was the record year for manufacturing production in the USA. Right now manufacturing in Indiana and the USA is at record levels. There's no ambiguity on this... To be sure, our trade deficits have cost us manufacturing jobs. The high-end estimates are that today we have 1.5 million fewer manufacturing jobs across the nation because of foreign trade. All the other 6 million or so lost manufacturing jobs are due to mechanization, better technology and better production practices. Today's typical factory workers make twice as much 'stuff' in an hour as they did in 1977. For every manufacturing job lost to trade, nearly 9 have been lost to machines. But trade also creates jobs. We have 7 million more transportation and logistics jobs alone, likely attributable to trade since the 1970s." — Will Huntsberry, NPR
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 22, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Steve, facts mean nothing to Trump followers.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
I'll leave it up to y'all, but to me Donald Trump is a sloth.

a slow-moving tropical American mammal that hangs upside down from the branches of trees using its long limbs and hooked claws.


Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 22, 2016 - 06:18pm PT

check all 7 Z
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 22, 2016 - 06:25pm PT

Steve, facts mean nothing to Trump followers.

You are correct, and they are unwilling to even accept what I posted.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 22, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
like father like son
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 22, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 22, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
Didn't he use a "tele prompter" !!!!!!!

what about the hypocrisy??!!



I liked Hillary's speech better
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
Randomly selected a line from Trump speech

But here is the bottom line: I started off in Brooklyn New York, not so long ago, with a small loan and built a business worth over 10 billion dollars.

When this was fact checked it was found to be untrue.


Why don't you go through it line by line Klimner and report back to the forum with what supports the purported facts stated.



crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 22, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
Dumbest TelePrompTer reading in political history. One lie after another, which, of course, won't matter to delusional Trumpkins.

138 days and counting until this buffoon finally sinks beneath the waves.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 22, 2016 - 08:26pm PT
that trump video is hi-larious...

such pure unadulterated awesome...

i believe trump must be a test of the attention span of the american people, by some cosmic force...

and so far 40ish% are failing.

seriously: the assumed republican nominee is trying to hit hillary because she's not a strong enough supporter of lgbtq people? because she took donations from lgbtq oppressing middle east regimes? seriously, he's for real trying to pull this?



in the words/laugh of one of my compatriots:

guffaw... snort.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 22, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
Trump can back up all he said.

Then why doesn't he? He says he has $10 Billion. Why doesn't he buy some TV time and back-up all the stuff he spews in one liners.

Get some rest Klimner. You sound very tired.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 22, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
Thanks, DMT.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 22, 2016 - 09:03pm PT
does anyone read klimmers posts?

f*#k no. that nut job was greased long long long ago
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 22, 2016 - 11:14pm PT
f*#k no. that nut job was greased long long long ago

No, no....

Klimmer is the Black Knight from the Holy Grail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

"Your arm's off."

"No it 'tisnt."

"What's that then?"

"I've had worse."

....

"Look, you stupid bastard, you've got no arms left."

....

"It's only a flesh wound."

Klimmer is ungreasable.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 22, 2016 - 11:21pm PT
The Radical Islamic Terrorists are here.

Bring 'em on. They can slug it out with the entrenched Radical Christian Terrorists.

Curt
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:17am PT

Jun 22, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
does anyone read klimmers posts?

He's got a six line limit with me. Past that, and there isn't anything we haven't heard from him before.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:39am PT
So the answer is no then
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 23, 2016 - 01:18am PT
I give to him a lymerick Plus one

Most on the Taco just get a Sonnet

Except the duck. One quack is all he gets.

HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jun 23, 2016 - 08:23am PT
+1 Klimmer
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 23, 2016 - 08:39am PT
All you really need to know about trump is that, after failing with below-market offers and eminent domain, he deliberately built long, 20ft mounds to block the ocean views of people who wouldn't sell their houses to his Scottish golf course project.

What a dick.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jun 23, 2016 - 08:45am PT
A lesson there, in what happens when you let immigrants buy property.

Meanwhile, we have some political theatre. The thing that bothers me most, they get off starting Friday for Fourth of July.


Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 23, 2016 - 09:02am PT
Norton

Social climber
Jun 23, 2016 - 09:13am PT
Donald is in Scotland now opening a new golf course of his.

Because he is hopeful it will make him some money.

He has been using a teleprompter lately for his speeches, remember when he mocked everyone for using one?

$5000 says he loses in a landslide and causes the US Senate to go back to the Dems.

He is the gift that keeps on giving.

He's your boy, b!tch


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

I am "the king of debt."That has been great for me as a businessman, but is bad for the country. I made a fortune off of debt, will fix U.S.
10:55 AM - 21 Jun 2016

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 23, 2016 - 09:31am PT
Are Democrats really stupid enough to think that criminals and terrorists (with bad histories) will actually fill out a background check?? They will have a friend or family member (with a good history) buy a gun for them. This is the dumbest gun law ever written. And the Dems are saying this is common sense laws? These idiots need to be impeached for being so stupid.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 23, 2016 - 09:32am PT
^^

well then, what do you think of that?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 23, 2016 - 09:33am PT
customers don't fill out the forms, the seller does.

All the buyer does is provide ID.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 23, 2016 - 09:36am PT
The grammar is WAY too good for this to be the real Pyro writing. Is this his girlfriend?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 23, 2016 - 09:45am PT
Starve the troll...
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 23, 2016 - 09:47am PT
Brandon and apogee sitting in a tree KISSING...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 23, 2016 - 09:53am PT
customers don't fill out the forms, the seller does.

All the buyer does is provide ID.

Good lord dude.

I'll tell you what, I'll donate $200 for you to go to your local gun shop to buy a cheap POS Ruger 10/22 if that's what it takes to make you stop posting about something you know ABSOLUTELY nothing about.

The buyer ALWAYS fills out the form, you idiot.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 23, 2016 - 10:01am PT
Are Democrats really stupid enough to think that criminals and terrorists (with bad histories) will actually fill out a background check?? They will have a friend or family member (with a good history) buy a gun for them. This is the dumbest gun law ever written. And the Dems are saying this is common sense laws? These idiots need to be impeached for being so stupid.

It is a common sense law. The principle isn't flawed. It's how we go about implementing the law.

We should have a reasonable standard for gun ownership and do everything possible to see that standard met.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 23, 2016 - 10:04am PT
That standard can shove it!

Just another stunt to win over the ignorant voter..

Did Obama get shut down by supreme court this week?

..lol..good
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 23, 2016 - 10:05am PT
ESCO You are a moron.

Other than identification, the seller and FBI do the background check.Here's from the FBI website.

Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, NICS is used by Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to instantly determine whether a prospective buyer is eligible to buy firearms. Before ringing up the sale, cashiers call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn’t otherwise ineligible to make a purchase. More than 100 million such checks have been made in the last decade, leading to more than 700,000 denials.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 23, 2016 - 10:10am PT
Thanks. It the 35th second they confirm the seller calls the fbi database. ( in this case through the state.)
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 23, 2016 - 10:11am PT
I quote Lorenzo:

customers don't fill out the forms, the seller does.

All the buyer does is provide ID.



Never, ever, in my entire life have I had, seen, watched, or heard of a seller filling out a form for a prospective firearms purchaser.

The ONLY time its is even remotely reasonable is in Trust-based purchases of NFA items whereby a wet signature is not required.

Lorenzo, you are worse than the f*#king politicians. Talking about sh#t you don't understand makes you look silly.

I'll tell you what. I'll donate the $200 to buy the gun and I'll GIVE you $500 if the seller fills out the paperwork when you step up in line.


Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 23, 2016 - 10:12am PT
NO sh#t sherlock. Tell Lorenzo -The Expert.

VVVVVV Of course not, I was merely reinforcing Lorenzo's lack of any context on the subject.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 23, 2016 - 10:20am PT
Recall from the prophetic inspiration from the retired fireman ...

Neither you nor "the retired fireman" are under prophetic inspiration.

If Trump loses, will you then publicly admit that you (and your fireman) have been spraying BS not under the influence of God's spirit?

If Trump "cannot be stopped," then you should have absolute confidence in Trump's victory. Absolute! After all, the "spirit" says so.

If you don't completely believe it, then you have NO business posting such "inspiration." Since you did post it, you must totally believe it.

So, here's the deal: If Trump loses, you start an apology thread in which you offer heartfelt retractions of all your "spiritually prescient" BS. Then, you suspend your SuperTopo account and never post here again.

How about that? No risk to you, right? Because you KNOW that Trump's a "cannot be stopped" winner, right? So, put up or shut up.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jun 23, 2016 - 10:26am PT
“You guys are way outta line. Way outta line. You guys constantly take words out of context and twist them. You are liars. What I said doesn't have to do with anything you think I said. Look it up. Quote in context completely. Provide the link.

But its typical for radical flaming liberals. You lie. You are constantly inappropriate. You constantly attack with ad hominem attacks on people here on ST or elsewhere in the public world, because you have no substance, you simply have none. No substance. Wind bags. Very Typical.

Time to get to the truth ...”

Klimmer

Let’s see, you say Trump is God our savior; you have written GOD a few times but changed to G-D for some reason. Why?

Your exact words back in Nov 11 2010.

“What happened to Truth? Justice? Freedom? Good Works? The Golden Rule?
America, there is a day of reckoning coming from GOD himself, and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

“I suggest we return to our values and begin by telling the truth, and ask forgiveness from the World. Maybe then GOD will have mercy on us. America has really lost its way under the leadership of criminals and their corruption, and "we the people" do not hold them to account.”

The World laughs at The US”

Hmm?

Then you claim that a missile hit the Pentagon on 911 and can’t explain why a set of tires appears in the same exact area. You said the Arabs did not do it but why is all the threats from the Saudis taking all their funds out if the Senate passes The Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act? Shouldn’t the family members that lost all their love ones be suing the US, Cheney/Bush or the Pentagon since you believe it was them and not the Saudis?

“The World deserves to know the truth. We deserve to know the truth. The surviving families deserve to know the truth. The truth, and all the truth no matter how hard it will be to hear it.” Again your words.

Hmm?

Then you projected that a Chinese sub launched a missile 35 miles out from the beaches of Los Angeles.

“The reported Chinese missile test off Los Angeles came as a double blow to Obama. The day after the debt rating of the United States to A-plus from AA. The missile demonstration coupled with the downgrading of the United States financial grade represents a military and financial show of force by Beijing to Washington.”

Hmm?

“Time to get to the truth ...”

And if you were truthful, you know I called it an "Ark" to ruffle feathers and to make a funny.”

Hmm? That's funny I like that one. God, g-d, G_D is going to get you on that one.

And you want me to believe Trump is chosen by god for what?

“I suggest we return to our values and begin by telling the truth, and ask forgiveness from the World. Maybe then GOD will have mercy on us. " do not hold them to account.” [Your words]

Add a high school teacher to the list or just look yourself in the mirror maybe you could be part of the problem and not a solution.

And sorry for the delay a few days back.

You’re at home, someone [a really good chance [99%] they could be Americans] slams/blows down your door. Now you see three or four more, they look at you, if you are over 15 they’ll take you away, if you younger maybe they will leave you alone. They just snatched your dad and drag him out into the street and ties his hands behind his back and place a long stick in the open area between his tied hands and shoulder area. Then say/motion to him they will chop off his head. You have seen this before in the streets or back alleys and plead to them and cry, please don’t do it.

You watch as these intruders search your parent’s/aunt’s/ uncle’s maybe at a friend’s house you are just visiting for the day.

Maybe it’s your grandma, she is lying on the floor in a pool of blood with half here head blown off. She has a diamond ring on her finger, one of the intruders is struggling to get it off, Sh#t! too hard to get off. He tries again no luck, then decides to cut her finger off and pulls the ring off with ease.

Another member is trashing through the walls and ripping through the floors and finds $$$$$$$ of cash that was saved for maybe for your education till you got older. Maybe it was hidden so one had to leave as a family to a refugee camp [Nevada], or better yet those funds were going to immigrate to a safer environment maybe Canada [fat chance or good luck].

They smash your HD TVs, if you had any animals like chickens, goats, cows for your little brother, sister and you for milk, eggs or food then kill them so when they leave the militias have no access to it.

But maybe you’ll be one of those that get lucky and one of the intruders just when he is about to exit your house, turns around gives you a second look and hands you a piece of candy so that in hoping it will change your heart and mind.

Booty man get that booty. Occupy somebody’s country for the resources.

Sure do not know about history.

And you cannot comprehend why they hate us and want to attack?



Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 23, 2016 - 10:57am PT
Hey Klimmer, don't you in fact try to morph this thread into an anti Clinton thread? Try to stay on track, bub.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 23, 2016 - 11:06am PT
who's telling the truth.

Well then, we're holding you responsible for telling your idol's truth, since it seems to be in play here. You'd better not be wrong, pal.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 23, 2016 - 11:13am PT
Or did it just morph into attack Kliimmer 10.0? Lol

For me, this is not "attack Klimmer," and I'm no liberal.

For me, this is holding your supposed "inspiration" and that of the people you quote to close scrutiny and hopefully accountability.

So, just upthread I posted a challenge for you. Please review and respond. From your perspective it should be seen as a no-risk proposition. Put up or shut up.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 23, 2016 - 11:13am PT
Truly, he is a man of God.











































































































EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 23, 2016 - 11:22am PT
Dirtbag - A Hillary Super-Pac is running an spotlighting Trumps imitation of the disabled journalist.

Persistence pays off. Every little bit helps.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 23, 2016 - 11:53am PT
There you go again, Klimmer, refusing to respond to simple, straightforward posts.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:01pm PT
Dirtbag - A Hillary Super-Pac is running an spotlighting Trumps imitation of the disabled journalist.

Persistence pays off. Every little bit helps.

Yep!

It's message is simple, visual, visceral, and incontrovertible. It's also non-partisan. The man was being a total dick.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:03pm PT
Whatever.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
“Worth cross posting ...

It's also all about self hate and his Islamic faith.”

Just need to change it to one/two words you get the same result.

“He was gay. He was also a christian Terrorist. He knows the Bible and old testament are against homosexuality. It was all about self hate and making a last desperate act of faith to his violent christian beliefs. He was making a public violent statement against homosexuality and an attempt to right his sin in the eyes of Christianity.

Pat Robertson, Sacramento cleric plus a dozen more said openly on their views about gays. Let them kill themselves. What’s the difference drummer boy?

Hate. I told you years ago what is hopefully not going to happen but get ready. There are two companies right in your area that has the same opinion. What is scary and wrong is what the military refers to as “force multipliers” once they’re out of the box, they don’t go back in.

As for the links upper right hand corner of ST put your name in search and punch “forum” for a start. Go back to all your posting.

It is not about criticism which you and all of us do, it is about debating important issues and coming up real solutions something you and Trump cannot do.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:07pm PT

They make such a nice looking couple...

It's a creepy shot, especially combined with his comments about dating her and how he hopes his other infant daughter would develop nice breasts. It doesn't mean that anything incestuous happened, but it does make me wonder wtf he was thinking.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
mb1,

you will find that klimmer, and jody never answer questions posed to them.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:20pm PT
yes indeed

let's try real cleverly to criticize that democratic President shall we, b!tch?

let's call the economic recovery from the Republican RECESSION "anemic"

excellent deep critical analysis, comparing all those other "recoveries" from the Great Depression oops only this one to compare

keep fishing, someday you will be credible

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
Make immigration great again!

Obama
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:29pm PT
There is no way he could become president and I know because I have seen every episode of West Wing, although going by House of Cards he might be perfect
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
Worth cross posting ...

It's also all about self hate and his Islamic faith.”

Just need to change it to one/two words you get the same result.

“He was gay. He was also a christian Terrorist. He knows the Bible and old testament are against homosexuality. It was all about self hate and making a last desperate act of faith to his violent christian beliefs. He was making a public violent statement against homosexuality and an attempt to right his sin in the eyes of Christianity.

Can you give some examples mass killings in the US committed in the name of Christ?

In the last year, we've had mass killings in Chattanooga, San Bernadino and Orlando. All linked to Islamic extremism.

Let's not over look recent events in Paris and Brussels.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
For Norton:

overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
My Rx;

Get that girl a sandwich
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
locker

climber
"STFU n00b!!!"

Jun 23, 2016 - 12:37pm PT


"Let's not over look recent events in Paris"...

She may not like that...

Good stuff Locker. 130 innocent people murdered. Another 368 injured. Hysterical!

Did you ever find quotes to back your Klimmer is a pedophile claim?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
Does it really matter what imaginary friend some murderer dedicates his final heinous acts to?

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 23, 2016 - 12:56pm PT
Stop with the bets and challenges. I don't want to take your money or other.

I'm not asking for "money or other." I'm asking you to simply own up to the confidence you assert that you have been God-given!

There are tests for prophets, as you well know. A "prophet" is not just some guy making predictions. And a true prophet puts his total credibility on the line with every prediction. You've cited prophetic certainty for your predictions, so I'm forthrightly asking you to put your total credibility on the line.

That's a challenge that EVERY true prophet should be happy to rise to.

So, as I've said: Put up or shut up (in the name of God).

Stop being a hateful lot of people. November will come soon enough and we'll all know.

I'm not being hateful. I'm legitimately asking you to rise to the level you've set for yourself.

And you don't need to wait until November. You've repeatedly cited people like your fireman prophet that already know.

If you believe him, then you know, and you can put up or shut up, as I've said.

If you don't believe him, then you have no business posting pseudo-inspired BS as if you have some "inside knowledge" that you're not willing to back up when called on it.

I'm not going to have to apologize. I'm not going to be ashamed of what I've said.

Ah, there's that "prophetic" confidence again. So, as I've said, you take NO risk to rise to my totally legitimate challenge. EVERY true prophet is unafraid of such challenges, and everybody claiming "inspired knowledge" should fully expect such challenges.

So, again: Rise to the challenge, or just admit publicly that you know nothing more than anybody else here, so you can quit posting all the "inspired" BS. It's a simple, straightforward, and even Biblically legitimate challenge, Klimmer. Put up or shut up.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 23, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
Does it annoy you, then, that the guy who wants to go back and is America’s most successful businessman, at least by his own reckoning, is Donald Drumpf?

Well, I—there’s no successful businessman in America who actually thinks the most successful businessman in the country is Donald Drumpf. I know those guys, and so do you, and I guarantee you, that’s not their view.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 23, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
Well, your Democrat elected elite aren't messing around this time! They REALLY mean it.

At 12:42 Nancy Pelosi said that they are going to sit on the floor until "HELL FREEZES OVER!!!"

Then, exactly FOURTEEN MINUTES later, they got up and declared that the Democrats are ending their sit-in.


You can't make this stupid sh#t up. Maybe Lorenzo called them and said he's got it figured out. Lol.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From: CNN Breaking News [mailto:CNNBreakingNews@mail.cnn.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 12:42 PM
Subject: Breaking Newsletter

HOUSE SIT-IN:
Republicans tried to shut it down, but the Democrats' now 24-hour-long sit-in protesting the lack of action on gun control after the nightclub massacre in Orlando is still going strong. The protest started Wednesday morning, and House Minority leader Nancy Pelosi later said the sit-in would continue "until hell freezes over."


From: CNN Breaking News [mailto:CNNBreakingNews@mail.cnn.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 12:58 PM
Subject: Breaking News

Democrats are headed to the floor of the House and will end their sit-in protest over gun control, a senior leadership aide tells CNN.
"We are going to the floor to end this now," the aide said.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 23, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 23, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
2/10
dirtbag

climber
Jun 23, 2016 - 02:50pm PT

Madbolter1,

http://www.trunews.com/gods-man-firefighter-shares-2011-vision-of-president-trump/

The Fireman does not claim to be a prophet. I do not claim to be a prophet. He is a child of G-d a believer and so am I. G-d does give spiritual gifts to his children. He seems to have the gift of prophetic insight. He talks about how it happened and what was the message G-d gave him. I am simply stating that I believe that his message that he received is true.

We are to test the spirits and to see if is of G-d. So far his message seems to be inspired. He received the message from G-d in 2011, long before Trump ran as a candidate for President. The message given does seem to be holding true step by step so far. Seems no one could have predicted Trumps success, in fact the pundits all predicted he would fall out a long time ago. Again seems to bear the message true. He also is exposing the secrets snd the corruption of the political elites. Again seems to bear the message true.

There are tests for prophets in G-d's word. Again the man is not claiming to be a prophet. He is claiming to have the gift of prophetic insight. He's had experiences in his life in this regard that have come true.

Some of those tests from G-d's word ...

http://www.remnantofgod.org/Trueprophets.htm

Deuteronomy 18:21-22, "And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."

The true Prophet of the Lord predicts that which does come to pass. If the Prophet's predictions fail, they are exposed as NOT of God.


That is the most sure test of the prophetic vision. We wait and see. So far so good. The message from the retired fireman seems spot on. We will know in November.


fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 23, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
Hey where's that picture of Donald supposedly mocking that handicap guy? I think I lost it.
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jun 23, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
You got it all backwards. That dude in the green shirt is mocking Trump!
Norton

Social climber
Jun 23, 2016 - 03:47pm PT
they allow him to feel knowledgable
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 23, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
The Fireman does not claim to be a prophet. I do not claim to be a prophet.

Again the man is not claiming to be a prophet. He is claiming to have the gift of prophetic insight.

You are talking in circles, and I'm honestly trying to be charitable toward you. You are making "distinctions without a difference" and thinking that you are thereby threading some needle.

You are not. I have no more time/energy to attempt to parse your verbiage.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 23, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
I have admitted that I like younger women. What man honestly doesn't? (We are talking legal age 18 years and above.) The women I'm attracted to are college age, late 20s and early 30s.

Let me get this straight. You were climbing and putting up routes in the '70s and you're dating or trying to date women of a daughter or granddaughter's age? Crikey, that's as f*#ked up as all the bullshit you believe, but I have no doubt you can rationalize it as easily as ufos or voting for trump (and that makes more sense now). Clearly no woman over the age of about 33 would ever put up with your sh#t for a second longer than the moment they got a whiff of it. I mean, dude...wtf?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 23, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
GCF

Does ANYONE read Klimmers posts?

You'ze a funny guy.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jun 23, 2016 - 04:56pm PT
GCF

Does ANYONE read Klimmers posts?

No, the libs just have brain farts and respond to him anyway....
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 23, 2016 - 05:16pm PT
WAY creepy.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 23, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
"a hand up [their skirts], not a hand out"

Fixed that for you.

And no, trump doesn't care about the little guy or the middle class - he's made a career out of f*#king them year in, year out. And, having been stiffed for $25k by an asshat just like him once, I can tell you a lot of small businesses and working folk can't sustain those kinds of losses. There basically isn't one of his businesses - including the most recent in Scotland - where he hasn't gone out of his way to f*#k the average working stiff. He's a grifter; one who's gotten away with it more times than not, but a grifter all the same.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 23, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
apagoo == the internet coward
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 23, 2016 - 06:21pm PT
Been out in the woods for a couple of days. Glad to see Klimmer has been keeping everyone amused. Got a coffee this afternoon in a small coffee shop in the Olympics; started getting freaked when it turned out to be run by crypto-christians all reading their little red book. They were mega-serious and really believe a book translated from Aramaic to current English was the true word of god. To each his/her own, but then I learned, as I waited patiently, that the 12 year ± old daughter was going to compete in some sort of religious bible verse recall contest! Sort of like a spelling bee, but bible numbers.

The difference to how I raised my daughter was astounding; I taught my daughter to question and be curious and critical. I suppose that is indoctrination in a sense, but indoctrination to beware of indoctrination. It was then that I recalled all the churches and signs I had seen in the area and realized I was in a sort of zombie land (actually, sort of near Forks, WA). While I agree to each their own, what I was watching was disturbing in that no real thought went into it, simple belief and repetition was substituted for actual learning.

I will probably be dumped on for this post, but really, it was an eye opener on how the other half live. The owner was a pleasant man, but it was obvious in how he showed and talked down to his wife about how to ring up my purchase that the man was dominant in the relationship and that she should obey. Pretty weird experience for me.

I just hope they never take over.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 23, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
The division this election is bringing out is getting out of hand..

No one can predict next week's news,

But I can predict this, "we will see new lows"


loven the greasemonkey
blacklisted 3
Thanks Nature
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 23, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
Pyro likes sweet, young things, too.

He stalks them on his iPhone at the beach, then posts them here like trophies.

Hmmm....there is definitely a pattern emerging amongst the Trumpsters here.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 23, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/23/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-hillary-clinton-slept-through-be/
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jun 23, 2016 - 09:34pm PT
Shouldn't Trump be blaming Obama for Benghazi...? Oh , i forgot , Hillary is running for POTUS.. Never mind...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 23, 2016 - 10:34pm PT
Donald is looking for a way out. An escape plan. It's becoming clearer every day he doesn't really want the job.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 24, 2016 - 12:22am PT
Now, if we could only get texas to do the same...
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 24, 2016 - 05:23am PT
what is america exiting from, klimmer?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 05:51am PT
AMERIEXIT in November

If you want to leave America, I'll vote for that.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 24, 2016 - 06:44am PT
He'll get the title of President of the USA only if that is the name of a new reality TV show. As for the Oval Office, not a chance.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 24, 2016 - 06:53am PT
Crankloon ur wrong!

Trump will make America GREAT again..

zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 07:54am PT
Sugar






Daddy

Is Donald Trump the inbred son a pederast? Like father like son.
-Jess Askin


The building of the Grand Hyatt hotel in 1978 near New York’s Grand Central station was a key element of Trump’s first big deal in Manhattan — obtaining an option on old Penn Central railroad properties. The new hotel, which replaced an aging Commodore property, helped put Trump on the map.

There was a nearly $1 million loan from Trump’s father that was part of the deal — Fred Trump’s Village Construction Corp. provided the loan to help repay draws on a Chase Manhattan credit line that Fred Trump had arranged for his son as he built the hotel. But that loan was only a small part of the father’s involvement in the deal.

Trump’s father — whose name had been besmirched in New York real estate circles after investigations into windfall profits and other abuses in his real estate projects — was an essential silent partner in Trump’s initiative. In effect, the son was the front man, relying on his father’s connections and wealth, while his father stood silently in the background to avoid drawing attention to himself.

Fred Trump — along with the Hyatt hotel chain — jointly guaranteed the $70 million construction loan from Manufacturers Hanover bank, “each assuming a 50 percent share of the obligation and each committing itself to complete the project should Donald be unable to finish it,” according to veteran Trump chronicler Wayne Barrett in his 1992 book, “Trump: The Deals and the Downfall.”

Fred Trump’s signature on the guarantee ensured the new hotel would get built. “No document in the long paper trail attached to the Commodore deal better demonstrated the lack of bank confidence in the Donald or the project, and none made clear the limits of his promoter role,” Barrett wrote. Trump simply did not have the credit or connections to obtain such financing on his own. “It was Fred’s two-decade-old relationship with a top Equitable officer, Ben Holloway, that had helped entice them to do the project.”
dirtbag

climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 07:56am PT
Trump's visit to Scotland highlights his intention to maintain his businesses while president.

Logistically, how could he possibly do both? Thanks to Klimmer, I know that Jesus loves him more than anyone else, but G-d only put so many hours in a day.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 08:21am PT
Yeah, it's always about him.

Always.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 24, 2016 - 08:56am PT
There's a politician running who isn't a narcissist?

Do tell.

And Donald doesn't want to be puppet-in-chief, he never did. His brand is his job, a shameless self-promoter. He's good at selling himself which is what he'll continue to do with various trinkets and real estate.

I read the transcript of one of his recent speeches which was a strange rambling diatribe about nothing at all presented at about a third-grade level. I compared it to several of his 4-6 year old interviews with Howard Stern. From that one can easily figure out he's either suffered a severe stroke or it's an act.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 09:16am PT
He's indeed a babbler!
dirtbag

climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 09:20am PT
G-d's middle finger:


Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 24, 2016 - 10:02am PT
There's a politician running who isn't a narcissist?

Do tell.

And Donald doesn't want to be puppet-in-chief, he never did. His brand is his job, a shameless self-promoter. He's good at selling himself which is what he'll continue to do with various trinkets and real estate.

I read the transcript of one of his recent speeches which was a strange rambling diatribe about nothing at all presented at about a third-grade level. I compared it to several of his 4-6 year old interviews with Howard Stern. From that one can easily figure out he's either suffered a severe stroke or it's an act.

Exactly.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 10:13am PT
Donald Trump Turnberry Scotland Press Conference - Brexit 6/24/16

Funny place to give that speech. Scotland voted 2:1 to stay in the EU.

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 10:27am PT
Scotland voted 2:1 to stay in the EU

yes, and Trump actually congratulated Scotland for voting to leave the EU

he is so damn obviously both uninformed and misinformed on damn near everything

he is over there talking to the world's press as the Republican nominee for President
and all he can do is act like a carnival barker raving how nice the suites are in his hotel


but then go back to November of 2008 for a second, the US economy was in full Recession losing 600,000 jobs a month with Republican Bush in charge

and some 60 million adults not children went to the polls and voted to continue the Recession by voting for another Republican, John McCain

so yeah, I guess its not so hard to see how little people like Klimmer and pyro care about the US economy or foreign policy while supporting the man child Trump
dirtbag

climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 10:32am PT
White nationalism is a driving force behind trump's support, not the economy or foreign policy.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 24, 2016 - 10:33am PT
What a moron. Brexit won on the back of the same racists fears that trump is playing here in the US and that essentially brought the nazi's to power in Germany.

The idea that leaving the EU will do squat to stop England's 'immigrant problem' is beyond stupid as is the idea that leaving the EU will eliminate all the bad aspects of belonging to the EU while somehow preserving all the good that comes with it. Naive and ignorant and England will pay a high price for this move.

They 'took their country back' alright - back to the stone age.

PS British retirees in Spain and Portugal just lost their healthcare and British works in the EU are now expats without appropriate work visa. What a mindless clusterf*#k.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 24, 2016 - 10:33am PT
White nationalism requires fewer functioning brain cells than understanding of economic policy.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 10:36am PT
Yep apogee, it's about gut feelings, not firing neurons.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 24, 2016 - 10:39am PT
Norton, don't bother. Just one bigot reaching out to his audience of bigots in the U.S. Everyone knows the man is a pathological liar. Most Americans know better than to elect an authoritarian huckster. He might not even be nominated by the party he hijacked solely to promote his business interests.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 24, 2016 - 10:42am PT
Britain just left the EU and now Scotland is going to leave Britain to rejoin the EU.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 10:42am PT
Try to listen and watch. Stop telling lies.

You keep repeating that Trump is right. Nobody here tells more frequent lies and bigger lies than you.

Curt
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 24, 2016 - 10:54am PT
Donald Trump was right. He didn't presume to tell another Country

trump didn't even know what Brexit was until yesterday


Some people are born teachers and some people aren't.

fixed it for you, klimmer.

Try to listen and watch. Stop telling lies.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 11:01am PT
Curt, be specific. Point them out please. Prove it.

That would be pretty pointless. We have clearly established (over years) that no amount of factual information will convince a crazy person that they are, in fact, crazy. That's because they're crazy.

Curt
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 24, 2016 - 11:03am PT
I look forward to Trump explaining how he's going to relinquish management of his empire while serving as President. Or is he going to treat the Presidency as a part-time gig?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 11:16am PT
^^^Trump must give the world's best blow jobs.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 11:23am PT
Listen to his speech in Scotland.

Here is what Trump is supporting.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 24, 2016 - 11:24am PT
Ready for Donald?

Yeah, after his coherent, focused speech on Lying Crooked Hillary early in the week I was ready for my first prez campaign donation of the season. Apparently many, many others were also.

Before this cycle is done I'll bet it is impossible for people, even braindead progressive robots, to think of Hillary without linking lie and crook with the embarrassing mention of her name.



dirtbag

climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 11:26am PT
It's nice to see that Rick hasn't become any smarter during his time away from here.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 11:42am PT
Just saying something, or anything, without evidence in context is nothing. Just a drive by lie.

That was from the Financial Times. Real Bullshit is saying that something is God's intent.

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 11:45am PT
$5000 Hillary beats Trump by over 10 million popular and over 130 Electoral votes

She orders new drapes for the White House and he goes back to being a carnival barker
Norton

Social climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 11:58am PT
Klimmer, is that you with the camera all excited?

Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
Here's the "truth" Trump has been speaking about.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/23/investing/eu-referendum-markets/

Brexit has been just wonderful for everyone so far.

Curt
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
More of Donald Trump's "truth"

Trump’s Attack on Clinton’s Character
Presumptive GOP nominee gets facts wrong on Benghazi, Middle East refugees, gifts from Brunei and more.

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/trumps-attack-on-clintons-character/

Curt
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 24, 2016 - 12:37pm PT
Klimmer, this satire of yours is gold! You've got people believing you're really serious with this whacko stuff - bravo.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
We know the truth of Bengahzi. The record is known now. Hillary Clinton lies. The Obama administration lies. Lives were lost. They asked for more security long before this pre-planned terrorist attack happened. The record is known.

The truth is four Americans unfortunately died in the Benghazi incident. The truth is also that George W. Bush's incompetence, lies and deceptions led directly to 4,000+ American deaths and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths. I'm somewhat amazed you aren't more concerned with that.

Curt
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 24, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
Thank you Curt.



Benghazi???





Dec. 15, 2001: Unidentified assailants gunned down a Nepalese security guard of the U.S. Embassy in Kathmandu, Nepal.

Jan. 22, 2002: Two assailants attacked the American Center in Calcutta, India. Five policemen died, and 15 others were injured in the attack.

March 20, 2002: A car bomb exploded near the U.S. Embassy in Lima, Peru, killing nine people and injuring 32. The U.S. State Department reported no American casualties, injuries, or damage.

June 14, 2002: A suicide bombing in front of the U.S. Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, left 12 dead and 51 injured.

Nov. 9, 2002: The security supervisor for the U.S. embassy in Nepal was shot dead at his house in Kathmandu. Maoist rebels claimed responsibility for the incident.

May 12, 2003: In a series of attacks, suicide bombers blew themselves up in a truck loaded with explosives in a complex that housed staff working for U.S. defense firm Vinnell in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. (The contractors worked out of the U.S. embassy.) At least eight Americans were killed in the incident. Al-Qaida was suspected responsible for the incident. This was one of three attacks, involving at least nine suicide bombers and suspected to have involved 19 perpetrators overall.

July 30, 2004: Two people, including a suicide bomber, were killed and one person was injured as a suicide bomber set off an explosion at the U.S. Embassy in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. The Israeli Embassy and the Uzbekistan Prosecutor General’s Office in Tashkent were also attacked in related incidents.

Oct. 24, 2004: Edward Seitz, the assistant regional security officer at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, Iraq, died in a mortar or possible rocket attack at Camp Victory near the Baghdad airport. An American soldier was also injured. He was believed to be the first U.S. diplomat killed following the March 2003 U.S.-led invasion.

Nov 25, 2004: Jim Mollen, the U.S. Embassy’s senior consultant to the Iraqi Ministers of Education and Higher Education, was killed just outside the Green Zone in Baghdad.

Dec. 7, 2004: Gunmen belonging to al-Qaida in the Arabian Penninsula stormed the U.S. Consulate in Jedda, Saudi Arabia, triggering a bloody four-hour siege that left nine dead. One American was slightly injured in the assault.

Jan. 29, 2005: Unknown attackers fired either a rocket or a mortar round at the U.S. Embassy compound in Baghdad. The strike killed two U.S. citizens and left four others injured.

Sept. 7, 2005: Four American contractors employed with a private security firm supporting the regional U.S. embassy office in Basra, Iraq, were killed when a roadside bomb exploded near their convoy. Three of the contractors died instantly, and the fourth died in a military hospital after the bombing.

March 2, 2006: An unidentified driver detonated a car bomb while driving past the U.S. Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing a himself, a U.S. Consulate worker and at least three others.

Sept. 12, 2006: Islamic militants attacked the U.S. embassy in Damascus, Syria, with hand grenades, rifles, and a vehicle rigged with explosives. One guard and the four attackers died.

July 8, 2007: Two Iraqi U.S. Embassy workers were killed when the wife went to deliver a ransom for her husband who had been kidnapped in Baghdad. One of the couple's bodyguards was killed in the failed ransoming.

Jan. 14, 2008: A bomb hidden on a north Beirut highway hit a U.S. Embassy vehicle, killing at least three Lebanese bystanders. The car's Lebanese driver and an American at a nearby school were wounded.

March 18, 2008: Al-Qaida's wing in Yemen, Jund Al-Yemen Brigades, fired between three and five mortar rounds toward the U.S. embassy, but instead they hit a girls’ school nearby, killing a guard and a schoolgirl and injuring 19 others in Sanaa, Yemen.

July 9, 2008: Four unknown gunmen killed three Turkish police at the U.S. consulate in Istanbul, Turkey.

Sept. 17, 2008: Suspected al-Qaida militants disguised as security forces detonated vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices, fired rocket propelled grenades, rockets and firearms on the U.S. Embassy in Sanaa, Yemen. A suicide bomber also blew himself up at the embassy. Six Yemeni police, four civilians (including an American civilian), and six attackers were killed while six others were wounded in the attack.

Nov. 27, 2008: A Taliban suicide car bomber targeted the U.S. Embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan, killing four civilians in addition to the suicide bomber and wounding 18 others. The embassy was hosting a Thanksgiving Day event as Americans and other foreigners were arriving at the venue at the time of the attack.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 24, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
The truth is also that George W. Bush's incompetence, lies and deceptions led directly to 4,000+ American deaths and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths.

More lies.

We have met the enemy.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 24, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
More lies
They asked for more security long before this pre-planned terrorist attack happened.

1) The leader of the terrorist attack said he attacked as retribution for the video after he saw the protestors at the Embassy.
HE said it wasn't pre-planned, he said it was the video that prompted him to attack with his terrorist buddies

do you know more about what happened than the person that did it?
Fox News makes up a story, and everyone believes it rather than facts from the people that were the story, weird, or more like propaganda to rail against Hillary with. Liars

2) The Republicans in the House cut the funding for the embassy security after they asked for more security..

One Two
Wrong

Why wouldn't the Republicans beef up security after they asked for it, did they want people to die there?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
Thanks Craig.

Always entertaining.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
Edward T -go ahead and fact check it on one of the 3rd party sites i listed above.
But you won't, you pusillanimous troll.

Oh my.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
C'mon you guys are so full of it it's rediculous.

Seriously? You of all people who lives in a complete fantasy world? That's a good one.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
Refresh our memories....

What color is the Ark?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:21pm PT
C'mon you guys are so full of it it's rediculous.

Is "ridiculous" perhaps the word you meant?

Curt
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
C'mon you guys are so full of it it's rediculous.

Proper spelling is not required of high school science teachers.....
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
locker

climber
"STFU n00b!!!"

Jun 24, 2016 - 01:14pm PT


EdwardT...

Looks like you did some back editing...


EDITED:

Gotta love how you posted your sh!t and then when proven wrong you back edit and clam up...

LOL!!!...

Which posts are you referring to? Specific posts?

Edit: Or you could just let it go. You're still butt hurt. Bummer.

You took the low road, implying Klimmer might want to lure and rape 13 year old girls. I called you out and you back-pedaled like a champ.

Let it go.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:47pm PT
locker

climber
"STFU n00b!!!"

Jun 24, 2016 - 01:43pm PT

EdwardT...

"Let it go"...

Hey dude...

you accused me of something I didn't do and then you chicken sh1t back edited...



Case closed!!!...

:-)


EDITED:

"Which posts are you referring to? Specific posts?"..

Not into playing your dumb GAME...

You know exactly what the fuk I am refering to...

Sure thing sporto.

You don't even attempt to back your claim. Just bogus ckaims.

We both know you're lying.

See ya.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
Donald Trump = stunningly stupid

http://mashable.com/2016/06/24/trump-tweet-brexit/#3SNVnCiLfsqN

He actually congratulated Scotland for voting to "take their country back" with their Brexit vote. The only problem, of course, is that Scots voted 2:1 to stay in the EU. What an ignorant assclown.

Curt
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:48pm PT
witch hunt by right wingers who didn't give a sh#t about similar attacks when under an admin they liked.

Seems to me that both sides are guilty of selective awareness and cherry-picked evidence.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
Seems to me that both sides are guilty of selective awareness and cherry-picked evidence.

Nooo!!!!

It's just those rat-bastard idiots I disagree with.

Derp.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
Pound crashes.
Stocks crash.
Donald Trump applauds this.
Oh yeah, he loves bankruptcy. #BrexitVote #Trump
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
He actually congratulated Scotland for voting to "take their country back" with their Brexit vote. The only problem, of course, is that Scots voted 2:1 to stay in the EU.

I don't think I agree with your argument.

You seem to be saying that the Scots are not part of GB. I mean, if "their country" (GB) voted to leave, then it's legitimate for Trump to refer to "their country" qua the decision it made, even if the Scots disproportionately voted against what "their country" did. That's the nature of being part of a nation, even if your "section" of it doesn't agree. That disagreement doesn't mean the Scots aren't part of "their country."

Now, you might argue that Scotland is/should not be part of GB, so it's not "their country" that voted to leave. But you don't seem to be making that argument, since you reference their disproportionate "stay" vote in the context of "their country."

So, I don't see your argument as evidence of Trump being an "assclown."

There are other evidences. But yours doesn't strike me as among them.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 24, 2016 - 01:58pm PT
What a dumbass!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
Pound crashes.
Stocks crash.
Donald Trump applauds this.

Is that what he's applauding?

Many projections are that the current convulsion will be quite temporary and that things will quickly stabilize. Many economists project that GB will be better off once the dust settles.

Whether you agree or not, it's certainly a possible scenario. If Trump believes in that scenario, then he's applauding that scenario rather than the present (temporary) freak-out.

Isn't that a more charitable (and plausible) thing to assert that Trump is applauding?

Look, there's lots to legitimately hate about Trump. I'm on board with the wide-spread disgust toward him! But we can hate him even WITH a charitable analysis of the news. We don't have to delve into any distortions or uncharitable analysis to hate him. LOL
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
Kool aid is flown goood today..
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
"Doesn't matter that Scotland voted in."


What does matter is whether a US presidential candidate is smart enough to know actual world events. Your boy Trump sure comes up short in that department, doesn't he?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
Hillary held herself accountable under oath at congressional hearings.

I agreed with everything up to that line. What sense of "accountable" are you using here?

What price has Hillary ever paid for her behaviors?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:14pm PT
Which part did I edit out?


And for anyone else paying attention to this silly drama, here's the entire post i took exception to:

"lured the then 13-year-old and several other young women to the parties with promises of modeling careers and cash."...

Inviting 13yr old GIRLS to a party "With promises of modeling careers"???...

Right...

Trump the model maker extraordinaire...


**Klimmer...

you would fit right in...

You too have a thing for young GIRLS...**

You should invite some to go with you, with the promise of a free trip to see the Ark on the Moon...

The quote (in bold) was from the story alleging Trump raped the 13 year old girls.

Again..... lured the then 13-year-old and several other young women to the parties with promises of modeling careers and cash.

Context matters.

What it is you think I edited out? I'm asking about content. Not actual sentences. The quote you posted was not edited.

Quit trying to make it sound you didn't do what we know you did.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
What price has Hillary ever paid for her behaviors?



You must be kidding!!! Over 30 years of false attacks by republicans and ill-informed folks like you.


Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
I don't think I agree with your argument.

Well, Trump was specifically referencing "Scotland" as the country in his Tweet, not Great Britain--and Scotland IS a country. Not an independent country--but it is a country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom

Curt
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
Amen, Bob. By the way, what crime has she ever been charged with?

She's a terrific public servant and has persevered despite 30 years of rightwing hysteria. Inauguration day is going to be sweet.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
Over 30 years of false attacks by republicans and ill-informed folks like you.

The jury's still out. And I'm not ill-informed.

And being "accused" for decades is not the same as genuine accountability.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
She hasn't been charged with any crime, that's the problem.

Lets face it though, the other neocon Sith lords in her circle haven't ever been charged either. Crimes against humanity get a pass.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:28pm PT
but I do think that THINKING americans will call it for what it is -a very tragic episode and one that weighs on those at the top of the chain of command. Beyond that, well walk a mile in those comfortable shoes and have fun while you're doing it.

Agreed!

Benghazi was a tragedy indeed. But it's not what the right has made it out to be, imho.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
Norton you are just like lying Hillary

how so klimmer, what have I been "lying' about?

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
Trump was specifically referencing "Scotland" as the country in his Tweet

That's one interpretation. It's not a charitable one.

My only point is that we don't have to nit-pick and be uncharitable at this level in order to discuss what's really wrong with His Hairness.

As Karl Popper pointed out, the problem with a verificationist viewpoint is that it "finds verifying evidence" everywhere it looks.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
Madbolter...yes you are ill informed what crime has she committed???

What behavior are you talking about and what jury is out??

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:35pm PT
"Norton you are just like lying Hillary

how so klimmer, what have I been "lying' about?"


That is the backwards world of republicans, facts mean nothing and lies are the truth.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
yes you are ill informed what crime has she committed???

Are you in IT, Bob?

I'm well-connected and knowledgeable on that front, and those of us that know the technicalities of what she did know how flagrantly she failed to achieve even the most basic of best-practices in her rush to get herself a system over which she would have complete control. For months she didn't even have a valid SSL cert on her system, rendering everything that went in and out of it plain-text for all the world to see. I could go on and on.

There is no, repeat NO, legitimate motivation for doing what she did. Her obvious intention was to circumvent FOIA statutes and to ensure that if pressured she could do exactly what she did in fact do: Decide what she wanted to delete and then wipe the evidence.

If she deleted even ONE State Department email from her private server, she violated the law. And it's now known that she deleted many State Department emails.

In other posts I've shown side-by-side the text of the relevant statutes and her undisputed behaviors. People like me, who are non-partisan in their thinking (unlike you), are not blinded by the flying dust from our grinding axes.

That she committed crimes is beyond legitimate dispute. Whether she gets charged or not is an almost unrelated question, because at her level people basically don't get indicted. It's dubious indeed in our political climate if indictments CAN be brought.

The difference between us is that you are partisan, and I'm not. I would have voted for Bernie, for example. I won't vote for Clinton. I don't think I can bring myself to vote for Trump, even to stop Clinton. So, I may not vote or vote third-party (who knows what?). I'm not some right-winger with an ax to grind against Clinton.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
This again. Counts only as a 1/2 vote for Trump. Congratulations.

Hard to figure what should make a public servant keep going with a citizenry like this.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
Jury!? Your fantasy jury in your Court of Make Believe.

Are you serious? Or is this a posting-while-drunk?

"The jury's still out" is a common phrase to say: "Nothing's been decided yet."

In my case, one of the meanings I include is: "The FBI investigation is not over yet."

If you're gonna ding me at that level, then you're the one in a fantasy world and need to grow up.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
Counts only as a 1/2 vote for Trump

More like 1/100.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
Hard to figure what should make a public servant keep gong with a citizenry like this.

It's hard to figure only because you lefties perpetually turn a blind eye to the massive amounts of money and power the Clintons have amassed due to being such "servants" of the "public." LOL
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:51pm PT
That she committed crimes is beyond legitimate dispute. Whether she gets charged or not is an almost unrelated question, because at her level people basically don't get indicted. It's dubious indeed in our political climate if indictments CAN be brought.

This is ignorance personified. The first sentence is laughable. That she has not ever been charged with a crime is beyond dispute.

Not following people State Dept procedure may bring a rebuke, almost certainly not an indictment. That's the stuff of fantasy.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:51pm PT
"I'm well-connected and knowledgeable on that front, and those of us that know the technicalities of what she did know how flagrantly she failed to achieve even the most basic of best-practices in her rush to get herself a system over which she would have complete control. For months she didn't even have a valid SSL cert on her system, rendering everything that went in and out of it plain-text for all the world to see. I could go on and on."


You have opinions and that is about as far as it goes.

I could care less who you vote for.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:52pm PT
That she has not ever been charged with a crime is beyond dispute.

That she is above the law is virtually beyond dispute.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:53pm PT
"It's hard to figure only because you lefties perpetually turn a blind eye to the massive amounts of money and power the Clintons have amassed due to being such "servants" of the "public." LOL"


Actually most of the wealth came as private citizens, just like Reagan.


"That she is above the law is virtually beyond dispute."


Wow another opinion from the king of them.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:53pm PT
You have opinions and that is about as far as it goes.

Mine are at least knowledgeable, unlike yours on this subject.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:55pm PT
"Mine are at least knowledgeable, unlike yours on this subject."


Your are emotional, very emotional and long winded.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
That she is above the law is virtually beyond dispute.

Again, it's comparatively a frigging ocean of squawking about nothing of any real consequence when compared to the multiple instances of treason committed by the W's administration.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
Y'all better be careful out there worshipping these false idols.

You're gonna likely shoot your self in the foot and/or burn 'em.


Tony Robbins asked them to overcome fear and storm across hot coals. Dozens were injured.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:58pm PT
Actually most of the wealth came as private citizens, just like Reagan.

While you're calling me "uninformed," your statement is simply not true.

http://fortune.com/2016/02/15/hillary-clinton-net-worth-finances/

And from http://moneynation.com/hillary-clinton-net-worth/

Combined Bill and Hillary Clinton net worth 2002: $4,077,000
Hillary Clinton net worth 2004: $30,098,000
Hillary Clinton net worth 2005: $30,172,503
Combined Bill and Hillary Clinton net worth 2006: $34,435,000
Hillary Clinton net worth 2007: $30,820,509
Hillary Clinton net worth 2008: $21,452,008
Hillary Clinton net worth 2009: $31,241,007
Hillary Clinton net worth 2010: $31,195,006
Hillary Clinton net worth 2011: $13,130,004
Hillary Clinton net worth 2012: $12,347,503
Hillary Clinton Net Worth 2015: $31,265,004
Combined Bill and Hillary Clinton net worth 2015: $111,000,000

There's lots more where this came from. It's trivially easy to show in detail how much (declared) money Hillary has made as a "public servant."
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
It is getting better.


zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
Clintons should have invested with Trump. He turned less than $5Billion into more than $10Billion overnight.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:00pm PT
Your are emotional, very emotional and long winded.

Neither attribute is a bad thing. And being "emotional" is not a hard dichotomy from also being rational and well-informed.

The fact that you can't cope with either attribute doesn't give you any moral high ground.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:02pm PT
Reagan's Fall From Grace : The $2-Million Japan Tour

So much squawking; so little substance...
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:02pm PT
Again, it's comparatively a frigging ocean of squawking about nothing of any real consequence when compared to the multiple instances of treason committed by the W's administration.

I totally agree!

That entire administration should be in prison.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
It is getting better.

Everywhere verificationists look, they see more evidence that they are right and that everybody who disagrees is "stupid" or worse.

Yup, this is the basis for a rational republic.

Not
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
Here's the elitist living the high life..


Maybe it's the woman thing.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
Throw them in jail! Show trial later.

We allllllll know they're guilty motherf*#kers.

Ah, got it. This is the snarky, sarcastic version of DMT. It varies day by day, you know.

Gotta be sure I know which version I'm dealing with at any given moment.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
Maybe it's the woman thing.

Nah

Wait. Let me double-check.





























































































Nah.

It's the criminal thing.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
We are not going to elect an orange buffoon who flies to Scotland in the middle of the Brexit crisis and boasts about his golf course, who also brags about his penis size in a televised debate, lies about his charitable giving, fights with the pope, talks at a third-grade level, bastardizes and bungles New Testament verses, calls 9/11 7-Eleven and believes global warming is a hoax invented by the Chinese.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
I think you're right.

I just wish that the democrats had given us a better option.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
You just can't seperate it-Crooked lying Hillary
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
Yet you all can not admit that Hillary is a criminal and breaks the law when even the facts say so.

I think we still operate under a system of "innocent until proven guilty" don't we? I mean, unless you're just a judgmental jackass.

Curt
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:20pm PT
So rick....you gonna vote for Donald?

Or are you one of the frustrated Hillary Haterz who has enough rationality to not vote for Donald D#@&%ebag?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
I think we still operate under a system of "innocent until proven guilty" don't we? I mean, unless you're just a judgmental jackass.

Or, in some cases, just a rational person assessing the obvious pile of publicly-known evidence.

Like in the case of OJ.

Or, is anybody who today believes that OJ committed murder a "judgmental jackass"?

Only in a non-existent, ideal world do indictments/convictions perfectly correspond to actual guilt.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
And yet this is who the flaming radical left-wingers want to put into office as POTUS?

You betcha!
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
If she was anyone else she would be indicted and be in prison already. She is protected. She is a NeoCon. So is Obama. Bilderberg.

She's protected by God. Prove me wrong.

Haha. See how stupid that sounds?

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:44pm PT

Norton you are just like lying Hillary


how so klimmer, what have I been "lying' about?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
God loves Hillary.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
Judging by your back xray Norton, you've been lying around for years.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
Damn. Those pesky facts just keep getting in Donald's way.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/what-evidence-do-you-have/

Curt
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 24, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
coherent, focused speech

Oh, man. Just, wow.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
That all end at chapter 11

Snort, guffaw. Good one. LOL
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 24, 2016 - 04:18pm PT
Yeah, pretty amazing, isn't it Crank. And after only a few hundred tries. If he can avoid wandering to far from the script Lying Crooked Hillary is destined for the grave yard of forgotten two bit cronies.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 04:29pm PT

$5000 Hillary beats Donald by over 7 million popular and over 120 Electoral Votes in a landslide

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 24, 2016 - 04:31pm PT
Trump will take that bet Norton. Just deposit the funds with his campaign website till the results roll in.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 24, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
I ain't happy with the persona or the wandering , often incoherent, delivery, but Trump speaks the truth about this crazy country and the cronies driving it into the dirt. There is no viable option but to vote for DJT if you have even a smidgen of morality.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
The Hillary drunk loons are owned by klimmer.

These stoopid nutcase Hillary drunk loons in this thread come running every time he opens his mouth.

God makes me defend her...

Curt
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 24, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
"I ain't happy with the persona or the wandering , often incoherent delivery"


How about....

The bigotry?

The misogyny?

The racism?

The hatred?

The financial irresponsibility?

The lying?

The multiple marriages?

The creepy comments about his own daughter?

Or mocking those with physical disabilities?



"smidgen of morality"

So this is the example of morality?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
Trump already knows what he's gonna do when he loses. How about y'all?



The story is the experiential interface between the marks on the page and a conscious observer. Not till a conscious observer chooses to read a story does it become anymore more than physical marks on a page.

-Attributed variously to Largo and/or Pontius Pilate



Norton

Social climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 04:52pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
The only reliable statement we have about Pilate’s life after his time in Judaea comes from the pen of the Jewish writer Josephus. In his Antiquities of the Jews, written about 60 years after the events, Josephus states that Pilate was recalled to Rome after his mishandling of a riot involving the Samaritans in AD 36. For this he would have expected to face a hearing before the Emperor Tiberius, the aged but uncompromising ruler who had appointed him ten years earlier. Pilate hurried back, but by the time he arrived, in March AD 37, the ailing Tiberius had died. A new emperor, Caligula, had taken up the reins of power.




- See more at: http://www.historytoday.com/kevin-butcher/strange-afterlife-pontius-pilate#sthash.tgjv5mg0.dpuf
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 24, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
As I keep saying, it's a nation-wide intelligence test, Britain just failed theirs, here's to hoping the morons and racists don't outnumber thinking people here in the U.S...
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jun 24, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
Or the EdwardT Republicans: Hate Hillary, Hate Trump, will vote third Party or stay home

I don't hate Hillary. I've said I may vote for her and that I hope she can fix problems with Obamacare. Never said I'd stay home.

Decided to amend this post after seeing your civil reply.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 24, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
Well, here's our big chance to show how much smarter we are than those stuffy, annoying Brits.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 24, 2016 - 05:03pm PT
Did I get that wrong EdwardT? Isn't that what you said?

I will happily edit to correct, as necessary....

Edit:
Why the post & delete?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
Trump on business and the economy


[Click to View YouTube Video]
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 05:58pm PT
ROFL

Paid for by Hillary.

Yeah, now that's some unbiased analysis!

C'mon... up your game.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 24, 2016 - 05:59pm PT
"Smidgen of morality" describes Trump pretty well. He has a lifetime of fleecing people out of their money. Hillary has a lifetime of public service. No choice if you care about the country - and the world.

He's not the nominee yet, however. His biggest detractors are in the party he hijacked. They, too, recognize him for the charlatan he is.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 24, 2016 - 06:01pm PT

Doesn't matter that Scotland voted in. They are in the United Kingdom. They have to vote out of the UK, and then back into the EU.

Goddamnit Klimmer, you are one dumb SOB. Scotland has said they want a referendum this fall. Sinn Fein has said they want Northern Ireland to have a unification vote with Ireland.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 24, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Ok, then, EdwardT. I'll consider you in the category of the 'Smart' Republicans. Not crazy about Hillary, but see Trump as the disaster that he is.

You obviously have a 'smidgen' of morality in my book. (That's meant to be an ironic toss to rick.)
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Hillary has a lifetime of public service.

You're being sarcastic. Right?

Or there's some pun there that I'm missing. A play on words?

You can't be serious. What she's spent her life doing is called "service" these days? LOL
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 24, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 24, 2016 - 06:21pm PT
The English certainly have a way with the English language :-)

Curt
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 24, 2016 - 06:22pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Norton

Social climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 06:25pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 24, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
Ready for Donald ? Thread

Kannst du mich jetzt hören

To the best of the photographer's perception no sexual acts were performed in the recording of this historical event.

dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 24, 2016 - 10:28pm PT
...still derpin'
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 24, 2016 - 11:47pm PT
the choice continues to be a simple one...



a. a reactionary person who offers:

i. no specifics on how to solve the problems that we in the imperial west face
ii. who generally blames those same problems on some combination of internal and external minority groups [basically everybody except the internal to country, in general middle aged white men that have in actuality generally caused them]
iii. and so bases the entirety of their platform on patriotic nationalism ["make america great again"] and the appeal to an unquestionable authority ["i donald trump am the greatest, i don't need advisors, trust me i have the answers, etc. and etc."] ie. a campaign based on the two consistent commonalities underlying all fascism.

or

b. a stay the course person who offers:

i. continued war mongering [please watch her speech to aipac, her response to the death of qadaffi and her stance on syria as starters]
ii. a continuation ["Bill will be in charge of fixing the economy"] of the type of thinking and failed economic policies that her husband continued and that were in part to blame for the economic collapse of the latter oughts [Glass-Steagall and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act] and the continuation of the very richer continuing to get very richer while the working and middle class continue to get fewer and fewer of the continued gains in productivity.
iii. the continuation of blatantly disingenuous and even dog whistle politics [please look back to her campaign against barack and her comments about the "super predators" during the b.c. era]
iv. an impossible to parse stance on private prisons that has her taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from them, while claiming [after bernie pushed the issue] that she will get rid of them.
v. a "public servant" who, in combination with her "public servant" husband, has made literally hundreds of millions while primarily having a career in governance and which includes, in contravention of any common sense approach to conflict of interest, the taking of millions of dollars in "speaking" fees [in quarter of a million dollar allotments for two to three hour engagements].



or more simply put, a choice between:

a. reaping the rewards of decades of a combination of mass media that is more interested in profits than truth and a political establishment that is more interested in continued personal profits and expansion of bureacracy while protecting their campaign contributing fellow elites, than in either justice or the protection of the freedoms that they were established to protect.

or

b. a postponement of reaping the rewards of the decades outlined in a., by electing someone who promises more of the same, virtually guaranteeing that after her time in power, there will be, barring her turning out to be a secret progressive, the guarantee of an even more insane but cunning demagogue than trump. [in the same way that the rise of palin, without the addressing of the underlying roots of palin, guaranteed the rise of trump]



or most simply, the choice between:

a. fire.

or

b. frying pan.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jun 25, 2016 - 12:00am PT
or more simply put, a choice between

A. A woman president.

or

B. Our last president
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 25, 2016 - 06:35am PT
Am the only one that finds it interesting that some of the politards on here claim to be outraged that Drumph made fun of a handicapped person, then turn around and imply that Klimmer is impaired, then proceed to make fun of him.

Typical liberal mindset, do as I say, not as I do. No wonder you people adore Hillary.

Eventually Craig Fry will show his ass again and we will see the liberal hypocrisy in all its glory...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 25, 2016 - 07:25am PT
The Guardian
Trump Lies

Business
“I started off in Brooklyn, New York, not long ago, with a small loan, and built a business which today is worth well over $10bn.” – 22 June, New York City


In 1978 his father gave him a loan totaling almost $1m – about $3.7m today – and acted as guarantor for the young Trump’s early projects. A 1981 report by a New Jersey regulator also shows a $7.5m loan from the patriarch, and years later he bought $3.5m in gambling chips to help his son pay off the debts of a failing casino, which was found to have broken the law by accepting them. Trump also borrowed millions against his inheritance before his father’s death, a 2007 deposition shows.

Trump has not proven that he is worth $10bn, though his tax returns, which he has refused to release, could provide a clearer picture of his worth. His financial filings suggest he has less than $250m in liquid assets, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis. Trump has a history of overstating his properties: he has, for instance, told the FEC that a New York golf club is worth $50m but also argued in court that it is worth only $1.4m.



“[Hillary Clinton’s] invasion of Libya handed the country over to Isis, the barbarians.” – 22 June, New York City

The US did not invade Libya in 2011, though Clinton supported Nato airstrikes in support of rebels opposed to dictator Muammar Gaddafi. Isis is one of the groups involved in the civil war that has followed Gaddafi’s overthrow and death. In 2011, Trump also supported strikes, and spoke about his desire to remove Gaddafi in a video found by BuzzFeed: “We should go in, we should stop this guy, which would be very easy and very quick. We could do it surgically, stop him from doing it, and save these lives.”
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 25, 2016 - 08:37am PT
the derp for today....Derp!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 25, 2016 - 09:01am PT
"Am the only one"

Yes, you are the only one.

BTW:

'Am I the only one...'
kattz

climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 09:30am PT
Good decision, England! People are starting to wake up to the fact that the hordes of invaders would destroy their country and would turn it into impoverished, overcrowded, filthy zoo. Bye bye Merkel and the whole traitorous Brussels gang. Let's see how they'll try to tell Hungary to open the borders to migrants again or try to force their "quotas", now....

Londonistan is full of traitors who do not care for the interests of England, so perhaps within 10 years we'll see army working there/bringing it back to being London. Good thing England is on the island, they should get army involved at the tunnel now.
Americans will wake up too, but it'll be too late, probably.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 25, 2016 - 10:37am PT
+1 kattz


apogee your mother just called and said she needed to tie your shoes before you go out and play..
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 25, 2016 - 10:41am PT
"Portentous and meaningful stat: 66% people who left school at 16 voted for Leave. 71% of those with university degrees voted to Remain."


Go England, nice.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 25, 2016 - 11:07am PT
Our great country was built by new immigrants. There have always been anti-immigrant sentiment, be it the chinese, japanese, irish, German or whoever. Unlike Europe, it is much easier for an immigrant to assimilate here. This made America great. We do not need to be like europe.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 25, 2016 - 11:25am PT
Good decision, England! People are starting to wake up to the fact that the hordes of invaders would destroy their country and would turn it into impoverished, overcrowded, filthy zoo. Bye bye Merkel and the whole traitorous Brussels gang. Let's see how they'll try to tell Hungary to open the borders to migrants again or try to force their "quotas", now....

Londonistan is full of traitors who do not care for the interests of England, so perhaps within 10 years we'll see army working there/bringing it back to being London. Good thing England is on the island, they should get army involved at the tunnel now.
Americans will wake up too, but it'll be too late, probably.

Or as the flyers stuffed in people's letter boxes put it:

Norton

Social climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 12:00pm PT
According to a new Reuters/Ipsos poll, Clinton leads Donald Trump by a staggering 14 points:


The June 20-24 poll showed that 46.6 percent of likely American voters supported Clinton while 33.3 percent supported Trump.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
When in doubt, turn to G*D, Glenn Beck and/or Teddy Cruz.

Enough "to piss off the Pope"?





TV host Glenn Beck attacked Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump Thursday, saying “too many people are looking at Trump and believing that man has ever opened a Bible … that’s the biggest crock of bullcrap I’ve ever heard.”
Beck, founder of TheBlaze.com, spoke at a rally in South Carolina for Republican presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX).

“I’m going to be very blunt with you tonight,” Beck said. “Donald Trump is very dangerous in my opinion.”
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 25, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
Thanks to Tom Tomorrow.......

Jorroh

climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
"Are you with the JohnE Republicans: hold your nose and vote for Hillary (aka the smart Republicans)"

Not really sure why he would have to hold his nose. The Clintons push a different shade of market fundamentalism for sure, but they probably have more in common with JE than anyone else in the political spectrum (apart from the tiny slice of the republican party true belieivers that actually still buy into that stuff...neoliberalism that is)

I think the last year has pretty much confirmed that the political spectrum in the US divides quite naturally into three distinct slices.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jun 25, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
Simple, Obama and Hillary were wrong, Trump was right. Again.

Anybody who denies that there are a lot of angry populists/nativists in the democratic world that are being flamed by demagogues, is naïve or clueless.

That doesn't mean that lashing out in anger is a good way to steer one's country.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 25, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
"Portentous and meaningful stat: 66% people who left school at 16 voted for Leave. 71% of those with university degrees voted to Remain."


Those figures about educational levels mirror those of Trump's supporters and detractors. Uneducated and uninformed people love Trump; educated and informed people hate him.



The media are reporting that a number of Leave voters in the UK are regretting their decision. "What is the EU?" was the number one Google search in the UK the day after the vote to leave the EU.

It seems like UK's uneducated, disenfrachised middle class was manipulated by false campaign promises into voting to the leave the EU, without being properly informed.

For example, a major campaign point coming from the secessionists was saving £350 million ($500 million) per week that would no longer go to the EU, but would go to the NHS, the UK's National Health Services. Nigel Farage, a leader of the Leave the EU movement, admitted just hours after the vote that the NHS promise was a false, misleading statement.

When it was pointed out that Vote Leave emblazoned the £350 million claim onto the side of a tour bus and drove it around the country, Mr Farage said: “It wasn’t one of my adverts – I can assure you! I think they made a mistake in doing that.



That sounds like the Trump nightmare that most people believe can't happen here.


Voter turnout in the UK was higher than normal, with people voting who hadn't been to the polls in decades. Presumably, those extra voters tipped the balance in favor of leaving the EU.



Make sure you vote in November to send the Cheeto Jesus back to his Hart Island fantasy wonderland.

Captain...or Skully

climber
Boise, ID or the fricken Bakken, variously
Jun 25, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
My position remains. Trump is embarrassing.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 25, 2016 - 01:26pm PT
^^^^^^^^^ Trump's acting stupid and contagious.


Apparently, Trump's bigoted nationalism caught fire in the UK, and was instrumental in the disastrous vote to leave the EU. Many of Trump's yelling points, like excluding immigrants, kicking out foreigners and profiling and harassing Muslims, were used by the Leave the EU campaigners.


Many economists have predicted that a Trump victory in November would roil financial markets worldwide.

The UK's vote to leave the EU has roiled financial markets worldwide.



The UK's vote to leave the EU can be considered to be Trump Lite.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 25, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
pretty funny really all the so called christians voting trump, and all the libs voting hillary a methodist. Ha.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 25, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
Hey klimmer, you do realize the scots voted to stay in the EU and despise orange drumpf for building his stupid ass golf course that has lost millions? I know money impresses christians, like Christ was impressed with the money lenders. What annual % rate was the Christ gold card going for, anyways? Can I put it down for a room aboard the ark on the moon?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 25, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
Those silly Britons are saying they now #Regrexit their Brexit votes. They are calling for ex post facto changes to the election rules, and for another chance to vote against EU secession.

There is an online petition (2 million signatures, so far) that seeks to retroactively require that a successful Brexit vote be 60%, and not just a simple majority.

The petition demands that Parliament put the issue to a second vote.

And if the second vote also calls for leaving the EU, then the next online petition will be:


How about we decide this with a 'Best out of Five' election series?



http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/25/politics/uk-referendum-regrexit/index.html





It's important that people get their vote right the first time.

If idiots who are mesmerized by Trump's aging jet liner vote him into office, there will be no online petition, requesting changes to an election that has already occurred.


The Senate could immediately impeach Trump, and the House convict him and evict him from office. But that could take some time, and Trump could create a tremendous amount of damage and chaos in even a short amount of time.



Don't goof up your vote in November.

Don't be like the British #Regrexit idiots.

Norton

Social climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 02:00pm PT
pretty funny really all the so called christians voting trump, and all the libs voting hillary a methodist. Ha.

um Blue?

you do not know that Methodists ARE "Christians" ?

really?
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jun 25, 2016 - 02:48pm PT
Does anybody really want to live in a world with walls surrounding every country? It wouldn't be a civilized world.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 25, 2016 - 02:59pm PT

If idiots who are mesmerized by Trump's aging jet liner vote him into office, there will be no online petition, requesting changes to an election that has already occurred.

no but he could get an immediate bullet



Norton, i know. but the "Liibs", or what ever you guys are calling your selves are anti christian, aren't you?

that's why i find it ironic.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 03:19pm PT
Hi Blue

No, "liberals", as you should also be proud to be called if you got serious and looked at the issues we support, are not at all "anti Christian".

By far most people who identify as Democrats are decidedly Christian.

Perhaps you got that idea from Fructose who is one person out of many tens of millions .
jstan

climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
If idiots who are mesmerized by Trump's aging jet liner vote him into office, there will be no online petition, requesting changes to an election that has already occurred.

no but he could get an immediate bullet

That's why Trump may ask Palin if she wants to make another try. Hell of good insurance policy for him.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
Hillary Clinton doesn't espouse a level of faith she doesn't practice, so far as I have seen. If she suddenly started beginning sentences with "Jesus told me," or referring to homosexual people or women who have had an abortion as "sinners," Then - yeah, she would lose street cred in that area.

Phony religiousness designed to hook the devout is despicable. It's pretty obvious when done - as in when DT tries it.

And it surprises me, too that you would think, Blublockr that those who might identify as liberal would be anti-christian as a whole. Religion is a personal thing. When I think of a Christian(I am actually one - haven't renounced my faith, by the way), I remember a hymn we sang in grade school:

We are one in the Spirit
We are one in the Lord
We are one in the Spirit
We are one in the Lord

And we pray that all unity may one day be restored
And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love
Yes, they'll know we are Christians by our love

We will work with each other
We will work side by side
We will work with each other
We will work side by side

And we'll guard each man's dignity and save each man's pride
And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love
Yeah, they'll know we are Christians by our love,



It says nothing of judging others, condemning others, or trying to convince others their way is wrong. I think that when people who call themselves Christians, espouse that kind of negative speech, people ARE put off. But I think it's kind of like the "love the sinner, hate the sin." It's not the people, themselves, that put others off, but the yucky behavior.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 25, 2016 - 04:34pm PT
Trump, and the people who have dealt with him, all agree that he is a master of reading people, and then adapting to become who they want him to be.

This is how callous salesmen, sociopathic predators and con men operate.

Instead of honestly being themselves, they carefully observe and interpret their prey's desires, and then they pretend to be the person who will fulfill those desires.



This past week, Trump met with "hundreds of Evangelical pastors" and one of these guys is now claiming that:

"Trump has forged and accepted a relationship with Jesus Christ."


More accurately, Trump has forged and is exploiting a relationship with far-right Christians who previously supported Ted Cruz and his fanatical call for a Bible-based Christian caliphate.


http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trailguide-evangelical-leader-trump-recently-1466881502-htmlstory.html











If he thought it would help him obtain more of the female vote, Trump would go on a Ru Paul television program dressed up as a drag queen, looking like a Cheeto-faced Margaret Thatcher.



Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 25, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
God is pulling for Donald and it shows.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/clinton-regains-double-digit-lead-over-trump-reuters-154336652.html?ref=gs
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Jun 25, 2016 - 05:13pm PT
Just heard George Will quit the Republican party because he wants to disassociate with Trump.
Will's a smart and thoughtful guy. Somewhat surprising. Wonder if others in the party will do the same?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
Romney got 78% of the Mormon vote. Obama, a Muslim, got 21%. Go figger.

On the other hand (I do not think this was H. Clinton, can somebody fact-check it?)

So intense was the American rejection of Mormonism that the U.S. secretary of state once recommended that President Rutherford B. Hayes act to limit Mormon immigration into the country, a moment Utah Governor Gary Herbert saw as eerily reminiscent of Trump’s call to ban all Muslims from entering the United States last December.

Trump, for instance, drew 11 percent support in the Beehive State in one recent poll—a distant third behind Senator Ted Cruz (53 percent) and Ohio Governor John Kasich (29 percent). And as BuzzFeed’s McKay Coppins points out, Trump has noticeably struggled to accrue Mormon votes throughout the 2016 election season, losing heavily Mormon counties during the primaries in Idaho and Wyoming—states where he placed second and third overall, respectively. In Oneida County in southeastern Idaho, where roughly 3 out of 4 voters are Mormon, Trump won just 17.8 percent of the vote, whereas Cruz walked away with 59.9 percent.


Read the story here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/donald-trump-gop-mormon-vote-utah/474819/


And what of George Will?

Conservative commentator and columnist George Will says he is leaving the Republican Party because of Donald Trump -- and he's advocating that others do the same.

In a speech at a Federalist Society luncheon Friday, he told the audience, "This is not my party," according to PJ Media, a conservative news website.
...
"He [Trump]seems to confuse the enthusiasm of the crowds in front of him at the moment in the high school auditorium with the larger electorate," he said. "Whereas, in fact, crowds are definitionally not a representative selection of the American people."



Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 25, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
Mormons hate Trump for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that Trump has repeatedly denigrated, ridiculed and insulted their boy Mitt Romney. Trump has all but called Romney a "loser" because he doesn't have "ten billion bucks in his back pocket".



Mormons tend to be educated people.

They're not mouth-breathing rural billy-bob drop-outs who think Trump is a really cool guy because he has a hot wife and a really bitchen ride.


zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
On a tangential, yet related populist tack:

F. Lee Bailey, OJ Simpson's Attorney, Files for Bankruptcy [over a $5 million IRS bill]

Debts to the IRS aren't normally discharged in bankruptcy proceedings, but the 83-year-old Bailey said Friday that they can be if one abides by certain conditions, such as filing and paying his taxes on time since the original taxes and penalties were assessed.





http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/famed-attorney-lee-bailey-files-bankruptcy-maine-40126793
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 25, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
Trump's son piggy-backed a bogus pay-for-elite-social-status social registry service onto his father's bogus Trump University real estate school.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/26/us/politics/cambridge-whos-who-trump-brand.html



For a fee of thousands of dollars, Cambridge Who's Who listed naive customers in its faux-exclusive "high-society" register. In other words, people were told they could join up with New York City's richest and swankiest people, the Who's Who of NYC, for the cost of an overpriced admission ticket.


Without the Trump name and participation, Cambridge Who's Who had no legitimacy. The social registry scheme had been concocted by Randy Narod, a Long Island bagel vendor who had been barred from the securities industry for life because he had paid an impostor to take his licensing exam. Before Trump came along, Narod's registry was nothing more than an abridged version of a local telephone directory.

But, when Narod hitched his social registry con game to Trump, and to Trump's vast experience as a con man, the sordid enterprise took flight.

Donald Junior became the company spokesman and “executive director of global branding” for Cambridge, which then deluded customers with promises of “leveraging relationships built by the Trump empire.”


The situation was not unlike that of neophyte conman Johnny Hooker teaming up with Henry Gondorff, the Grand Old Man of The Big Con, in The Sting.


The two men combined their complementary resources and skills to contrive and execute the Con of All Cons.










Trump is a Cheeto-faced onion.

When another Trump layer is peeled back to see what is below, the viewer experiences a painful sensation.



nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Jun 25, 2016 - 06:33pm PT
*
As for Trump, the Scots have it right.
"Tiny fingered, Cheeto-faced, ferret wearing Shitgibbon"
This 2012 documentary speaks for itself.. The Scots experienced the real Donald, no wonder he is so reviled today in Scotland.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
After watching this video ..i would add... Pompous, lying, greedy, self-centered, vicious little parasitic flatworm.



Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 25, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
^^^^^^^^^ Nita's video is mandatory watching for the weekend
^^^^^^


Trump's lunatic antics and demonic tactics in building The World's Greatest Golf Course in Scotland were truly shocking.

The man shown in the movie (Trump, just doing what Trump does) is a guy you wouldn't trust to be a Central Park garbageman, let alone the Mayor, and certainly not the President of the United States.




I wrote a little piece about the Scottish Sand Swindle Scheme about three years ago, after seeing You've Been Trumped!


http://geosymmetrix.com/trump2016/trumpelstiltskin.htm


sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 25, 2016 - 06:57pm PT
well, how is the shitgibbon gonna make 'merica great again?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 25, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
^^^^^^^ EXACTLY THE POINT ^^^^^^^^


Trump tricked the Scottish Parliament into changing environmental protection laws for a region of rare coastal sand dunes that had the highest possible protection status.

Trump not only bulldozed and destroyed the pristine habitat of at least a half dozen endangered species, he also harassed, abused and terrorized the local people in the process.




Trump's act of capitalistic chutzpah can be roughly compared to the United States Congress allowing him to transmogrify a huge chunk of Yellowstone National Park into a gigantic indoor/outdoor "Trump Indian Casino", complete with a Shoot a Buffalo for Ten Thousand Bucks carnival attraction, and a new, more frequent schedule for Old Faithful, created by jolting the natural steam geyser into unnatural action every few moments by pumping a toxic stew of hydrazine-based tetroxide explosives into Old Faithful's tortured orifice.

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 25, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
^^^ HahaHAHAAHAHAhAha

ur to much
Norton

Social climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 07:46pm PT


did you watch the video to see how Trump lied and screwed the local people of Scotland?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 25, 2016 - 07:48pm PT
At what point will someone start a thread espousing the benefits of Hillary or Beenie Sanders?

Oh wait, what?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 07:58pm PT

you do not know enough yet about Bernie, Esco? tip- use google
dirtbag

climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
Lol, you whine that no one wants to present factual arguments, but all you do is post stupid right wing gossip. You're so full of sh#t, Klimmer. You don't give two ass hairs about facts.
7SacredPools

Trad climber
Ontario, Canada
Jun 25, 2016 - 08:38pm PT
God loves lesbians.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 25, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
The evidence suggests Hillary Clinton is a lesbian/bisexual.


Leonardo da Vinci, Isaac Newton and Sadi Carnot were lifelong bachelors who never married.

Does that suggest their considerable achievements should be discarded, and that they should be vilified as roasting in Hell right now?


Albert Einstein was a notorious lothario who later married his own niece.






EDIT:

Suggesting Hillary is a pan-species troilist, perhaps?

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 25, 2016 - 09:12pm PT
d_g or no d_g that is a good question.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 25, 2016 - 09:12pm PT

Then - yeah, she would lose street cred in that area.

yeah i'm totally onboard with ya! And it's mainly what i loved about Obama. Other than he always asked for EVERYones opinion( it's just sad the repub's are so tight lipped) He mostly kept god in his pocket, cept where it really matters. In front of his children and at the end of all his important speeches.

i think i'm with ya on the street cred area.. her street cred should only be held up to her political obligations, and nothing religional! But you gotta admit her obligations went up a notch when she mentioned she's a methodist
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 25, 2016 - 09:18pm PT

Wow. With this new information it is now more understandable to me.

i'm just afraid what will happen to you if Hellary wins!?

Keep chargin tho!
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 25, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
Methodist ministers have administered gay marriages out of rebellion in the Methodist Church and nothing has happened. They remain.

So what do you think should have happened to them? Crucified? Or just quickly beheaded?

Obviously, anyone who has anything to do with gayness must be put to death, but most of us here aren't in day-to-day touch with G-d the way you are Klimmer, so we would really appreciate your input on this.

What's your take on G-d's will in this matter? How does G-d want you and his other big-time buddies to kill gays?

Oh, and one other thing... If I'm not gay myself, but don't actually mind that other people are, do I have to be put to death too?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 25, 2016 - 09:37pm PT
So what do you think should have happened to them? Crucified? Or just quickly beheaded?

Surely you jest? you didn't see a bunch of priest's quickly beheaded by the catholic church for pedophilia did ya!

Churches are atleast intimately forgiving.



edit; maybe instead of intimately, i should'a used internally?
jstan

climber
Jun 25, 2016 - 09:37pm PT
If you have beheadings you have to do, you can now outsource them.

Capitalism is finally kicking in.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 25, 2016 - 09:39pm PT

Capitalism is finally kicking in.

over evolution, right!?
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Jun 25, 2016 - 09:40pm PT
*
Methodist ministers have administered gay marriages out of rebellion in the Methodist Church and nothing has happened.


For a while i went to a local Methodist church.. because they chose to administer a gay marriage. ..To me.. that just meant everyone was welcome to worship.. black , white, latino, asian, gay, straight, lesbian, transgender,queer ... i say..Good for them..

PS..
That Trump video was Finished in 2012, by an European film company, long before Trump was a presidential candidate.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 25, 2016 - 09:43pm PT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 25, 2016 - 09:56pm PT
I've posted plenty of the evidence.

You've posted none. Only opinions, and mainly yours. Each time you did, you were refuted. If you scroll back through many threads, you will find that is so.

On the other hand, for many years, I had as a patient a close relative of Hillarys, and she used to joke how this was an example of what the right wing would do, when they could not make a cogent argument.....much like the schoolyard.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 25, 2016 - 10:10pm PT
when they could not make a cogent argument.....


Pffft.

What's Hillary's cogent arguement???

She's as much wafting in the eddy as you arr.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 26, 2016 - 12:46am PT
".... but the "Liibs", or what ever you guys are calling your selves are anti christian, aren't you?"

Umm, no, blue.

What you refer to as 'Libs' are a bunch of constitutionalists who believe in the separation of church and state, and that citizens should have the right to live their lives with or without religion.

Ironic? No.

Constitutional.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 01:12am PT
What you refer to as 'Libs' are a bunch of constitutionalists

Well, at least cherry-picking constitutionalists, most of which don't believe in originalism, which means that most of you can't anchor your "constitution" in any objective meaning.

Instead, you elevate the SCOTUS above the constitution, which means that you have no grounding for what counts as "good behavior." And modern politics amounts to attempts to load the "god-like" SCOTUS in order to get "constitutional" interpretations completely uncoupled from original intent, such that the SCOTUS will wave its magic wand over your preferred policies and actions.

I agree with you about the separation of church and state. But much of the rest of what you call "constitutional" is uncoupled from original intent, and your appeals to a "fluid document" are nothing more than efforts to establish majority faction via a loaded SCOTUS.

As just one example, you got your way with the Obamacare ruling, but you don't think of the implications of how you got your way.

When Roberts was deciding which way he'd vote (the deciding vote), he asked the fateful question: "If government can do this, then what can government not do?"

When he voted in favor of Obamacare, he answered his own question: "Government can do anything."

And obviously that was never the intention of our founders. The same founders that wanted a strong separation between church and state (you like originalism on that point) wanted a strong but LIMITED federal government. Neither federalists nor anti-federalists would have imagined nor intended for ANY SCOTUS justice to answer Roberts' question with: "Government can do anything." So, you like to talk about a "fluid document" uncoupled from originalism when it suits your particular value system.

So, you cherry-pick your "constitutionalism" and have no higher moral ground than right-wingers who want to impose their values on you. You also want to impose your values on others; yours are just a different set of values.

Both sides are stumping for their own version of majority faction, and neither side is truly anchored in the original intent of the (whole) constitution.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 06:36am PT
madbolter posted
Well, at least cherry-picking constitutionalists, most of which don't believe in originalism, which means that most of you can't anchor your "constitution" in any objective meaning.

It's interesting that the concept of "originalism" had to be invented 200 years after the Constitution was written. The Constitution states that the Supreme Court would be the final arbiter of the Constitution. "Originalists" are merely pedants, people who don't like the fact that the Constitution is being used beyond the "original intent" of creating a utopia for white landholding men or both.

madbolter posted
When he voted in favor of Obamacare, he answered his own question: "Government can do anything."

If by "anything" you mean "levy taxes" which the Constitution clearly states it can do.

So, you cherry-pick your "constitutionalism" and have no higher moral ground than right-wingers who want to impose their values on you. You also want to impose your values on others; yours are just a different set of values.

The Constitution is not a moral document, it is a legal document. All laws impose certain values over others (and the lack of laws has the same effect). The purpose of the Constitution was to create a process that we could peacefully settle our differences in values.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 26, 2016 - 07:40am PT
Only a 12-point lead for Hillary? I'm hoping it's 20 in November.

When last month’s Washington Post-ABC News poll showed Donald Trump leading Hillary Clinton 46 percent to 44 percent among registered voters, it was the third poll in a week to show the presumptive GOP nominee in a surprising lead. Many Democrats began to worry (or at least worry more openly) about the Clinton campaign. Now they can breathe a little easier: The June Post-ABC poll, out Sunday morning, shows Clinton leading 51 percent to 39 percent, a 14 point swing.

Support for Donald Trump has plunged as he has alienated fellow Republicans and large majorities of voters overall in the course of a month of self-inflicted controversies, propelling Democrat Hillary Clinton to a double-digit lead.

The survey finds sweeping unease with the presumptive Republican nominee’s candidacy — from his incendiary rhetoric and values to his handling of both terrorism and his own business — foreshadowing that the November election could be a referendum on Trump more than anything else.

Roughly two in three Americans say they think Trump is unqualified to lead the nation; are anxious about the idea of him as president; believe his comments about women, minorities and Muslims show an unfair bias; and see his attacks on a federal judge because of his Mexican American heritage as racist.

Only 1 in 3 think he's qualified to be President. Apparently, the GOP leader of the senate isn't one of them...

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is supporting Republican presumptive nominee Donald Trump for president — but he isn’t saying, at least for now, whether he thinks the business mogul is actually up to the job.

McConnell twice declined on ABC’s “This Week” Sunday to say straight out that Trump is qualified to be president.

“Look, that will be up to the American people to decide,” McConnell said. “He won the Republican nomination fair and square. He got more votes than anybody else against a whole lot of well-qualified candidates. So our primary voters have made their decision as to who they want to be the nominee. The American people will be able to make that decision in the fall.”
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 07:53am PT
I checked out GODFACTOR.Com AS KKKlimner suggested.

Here's what it actually says.

Pray for Trump, whether he really accepted Christ or not. He needs it. Let's not make excuses for him, but let's also not belittle what God can do through a man.


The gfactor also alludes to the suggested fact that Idi Amin Dada may serve a a role model for Trump since he is rumoured to have accepted Christ before his kidneys gave out in 2003.

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 26, 2016 - 07:58am PT
But she has baggage as we know and is not exactly going to fire up the youth

but the libs will never admit that BAGGAGE is also related to Benghazi..


Clinton will fall hard
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 26, 2016 - 07:58am PT
Can't disagree GCF. I hope she doesn't take the safe route, like picking Tim Kaine as her running mate. The Dem platform committee needs to give the progressives plenty of victories and I like Elizabeth Warren as VP, Sherrod Brown next.

The Benghazi-hoax/Birther crowd is Donald's base. They'll follow the buffoon to a historic defeat.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 08:22am PT

In new poll, support for Trump has plunged, giving Clinton a double-digit lead


http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/06/26/National-Politics/Polling/release_428.xml?tid=a_inl
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 08:42am PT
^You think that's something. In a weird amalgamation the New York Times and Washington post are collaborating on a poll which will discern just exactly what the framers of the constitution were thinking when the document was written, relieving all from the burdensome task of relying on hearsay.

I would love to know the thoughts of Rufus King, Mass.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/KeySceneAtTheSigningOfTheConstitutionOfTheUnitedStates.jpg/1280px-KeySceneAtTheSigningOfTheConstitutionOfTheUnitedStates.jpg

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 26, 2016 - 09:01am PT
Really, what were a bunch of white slave owners thinking when they wrote the constitution???
Norton

Social climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 09:10am PT
Bold Text**Battleground boss: Clinton leads Trump across swing-state map
Clinton has the edge in the states that matter most, according to POLITICO's inaugural Battleground States polling average.**



Hillary Clinton leads Donald Trump in the 11 pivotal states likely to determine the outcome of this year’s presidential election, according to the debut of POLITICO’s Battleground States polling average.

As the 2016 general election begins, Clinton holds a 5-point overall advantage in the POLITICO Battleground States polling average over Trump, 44.8 percent to 39.8 percent. That lead extends to the state level: Clinton has the advantage in eight of the 11 individual swing states.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/battleground-states-clinton-trump-224202#ixzz4ChcD79hR
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 09:29am PT
Ms. Warren would be better off for Mrs. Clinton as not a part of the campaign. She can continue to brawl with the orange turd. Having said brawl emanate from within the campaign is just a bad idea. She clearly gets under the turds skin making him flap his lips and what comes out his mouth is pure gold as far as future ad campaigns go. I expect her to possibly go after a Governor from a swing state.

You're probably right as far as 30% of the Bernie supporters go. The only reason the youth came out and participated was to support their favorite grand father. Sorry - that's not going to change.

Senator Sanders has changed the game inside the DNC and his campaign has made positive changes towards progression. With the very very likely possibility Mrs. Clinton is the nominee it'll become clear to those still fighting very hard for Bernie's platform - myself included - that for anything that we fought for to matter at all the orange turd cannot win come November.

And when Senator Sanders said he'll do everything in his power to keep the orange turd from winning in November anyone with just a few functional brain cells should know exactly what that means. He is knot running third party.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 09:50am PT

You never know how these things are going to turn out, but:

Iraqi general: 'The battle for Falluja is over'

Seems like good news. Will isis withdraw from the EU now?


http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/middleeast/falluja-liberated-isis/
Norton

Social climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 10:04am PT
pyro proclaimed with certainty

but the libs will never admit that BAGGAGE is also related to Benghazi..

Clinton will fall hard

prove it, pyro

prove it, I have the Benghazi Hearing online right here, prove that your beloved Republicans who ran the hearing "uncovered" any evidence of wrong doing, etc

secondly, take a look at today's polls and explain what alternate universe you live in
dirtbag

climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 10:13am PT
It takes BALLS to mock a disabled person. Politically correct pussies are too cowardly to do this:


Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 26, 2016 - 11:08am PT
Both sides are stumping for their own version of majority faction, and neither side is truly anchored in the original intent of the (whole) constitution.

Article III.

Section. 1.

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

Section. 2.

The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;—to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States;— between a State and Citizens of another State,—between Citizens of different States,—between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

What part of the original wording of the Constitution, above, do you think the SCOTUS violates, by interpreting the Constitution?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 26, 2016 - 11:16am PT
Stoopid Americans will vote for the lesser of their evils.

They're so stoopid they can't even fix their system.

I would ask you how to fix it, but I know you have absolutely no idea.

Curt
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 26, 2016 - 11:17am PT
secondly, take a look at today's polls and explain what alternate universe you live in

here is my take on the alt univ..


Good polling is a good indicator... Problem is that the best polling is on the national level and there aren't a lot of good STATE polls in the public sphere. We need to start a Moody's Analytics for pollsters in order to give you, the consumer of these numbers, an idea about how reliable a specific state-based pollster is.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 26, 2016 - 11:18am PT
What part of the original wording of the Constitution, above, do you think the SCOTUS violates, by interpreting the Constitution?

Liberals and conservative agree that when SCOTUS interpretation of law crosses over into creating new law, this is unconstitutional. The problem is defining exactly where that line is.

Curt
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 26, 2016 - 11:22am PT
And the Constitution has a specific remedy for that unclarity: the legislature and executive change the law, or the country changes the Constitution, the process for which is clearly spelled out.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 11:25am PT
hB digs The Beatles


REVOLUTION

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You'd better free your mind instead

REVOLUTION 9

Then there's this Welsh Rarebit wearing some brown underpants
About the shortage of grain in Hertfordshire
Everyone of them knew that as time went by
They'd get a little bit older and a litter slower but
It's all the same thing, in this case manufactured by someone who's always
Umpteen your father's giving it diddly-i-dee
District was leaving, intended to pay for


Number 9, number 9
Who's to know?
Who was to know?


HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 11:35am PT
GCF posted
It would be great if it was 20, but the reality is that probably 30% of the bern voters will sit on their hands -we need to do all we can to advocate meaningful governance changes among the dems to give these folks a reason to vote.

Bullsh#t. A larger portion of Clinton supporters said they weren't going to vote for Obama than Sanders supporters have said the same about Clinton and that race was actually close and the Republican was actually a reasonable and competent candidate. Any Sanders holdouts are either going to wake up and vote for Clinton on their own, are voting for Trump because they don't actually understand politics or are petulant man-children with their heads buried so far up their own assess there isn't really anything worth courting. Our efforts are far better spent mobilizing the vote as a whole, getting huge numbers of people of color out to the polls and appealing to moderate Republican women. With the exception of limiting the debate schedule, the Democratic nominating process grossly favored Sanders. Anyone is withholding their vote because they think otherwise is a completely irrational actor and not worth spending time on.


Curt posted
Liberals and conservative agree that when SCOTUS interpretation of law crosses over into creating new law, this is unconstitutional. The problem is defining exactly where that line is.

Can you point to some examples where liberals have said this? To my recollection "legislating from the bench" was a conservative talking point invented in the 90's to try to delegitimize decisions they didn't like. I haven't seen an actual legal argument supporting this.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 26, 2016 - 11:45am PT
Pretty basic choices folks have with the current system in place, don't vote, vote third party, write in ballot, Trump or Hillary.


My choice is clear, I'm voting for Hillary. If you don't see the difference in the two you are blind to reality.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 26, 2016 - 11:49am PT
Can you point to some examples where liberals have said this? To my recollection "legislating from the bench" was a conservative talking point invented in the 90's to try to delegitimize decisions they didn't like. I haven't seen an actual legal argument supporting this.

1) Citizens United
2) Heller

The legal argument supporting this is that the Constitution leaves the making of new law exclusively to Congress.

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 11:56am PT
pyro bravely tried again:

Problem is that the best polling is on the national level and there aren't a lot of good STATE polls in the public sphere


Clinton leads Trump across swing-state map

Clinton has the edge in the states that matter most, according to POLITICO's inaugural Battleground States polling average.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/battleground-states-clinton-trump-224202#ixzz4CiHqrG2l
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 11:57am PT
Any Sanders holdouts are either going to wake up and vote for Clinton on their own, are voting for Drumpf because they don't actually understand politics or are petulant man-children with their heads buried so far up their own assess there isn't really anything worth courting.

wow, that's a pretty dickish and ignorant statement. Really, there are only three possibilities? Why, because you say so?

Are you stupid to believe that Sanders supporters in any volume what so ever would actually vote Drumpf?

"petulant man-children " - yeah, sure - sling insults. Does it make you feel better?


the 30% Sanders supporters that are not going to vote (where's that in your three options? Oh, never mind) for Mrs. Clinton are the youth that are participating in this process for the first time and are motivated because of Senator Sanders. They probably don't even care who or what Hillary is. With him out they simply won't show up. And that's too bad because the down ballet candidates need every vote.

Pull your head out of Hillary's ass for once.

I just hope She's kicking ass so bad in Colorado that I can write in Frank Zappa. Need to show up to make sure the other candidates get their vote. Will be tough races for the senate and the house here in colorado.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 26, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
More Britons are realizing that they were duped by empty, fraudulent promises by the Brexit campaign operatives.

This situation is an excellent opportunity for America to learn from the mistakes of another nation, so that we don't do the same here, and elect a president who makes empty, fraudulent promises that he will not, and cannot fulfill.


http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/nation-world/world/article86089172.html#storylink=latest_side



Cornwall, one of the poorest counties in England, has received an average of $82 million per year in subsidies from the European Union over the past ten years. The county is highly dependent on that income.

Brexit campaigners told Cornwall voters that if Britain left the European Union, the EU subsidies would continue to be paid (How stupid are those people in Cornwall?)

54% of Cornwall voters voted to leave the EU.

Now, they realize that the EU is not going to continue with those payments when the UK is no longer a member of the European Union. Cornwall leaders are in a panic, and are urgently calling for Parliament to take action and ensure that the lost EU subsidies will be paid from the British treasury.



The Brexit campaign leaders simply lied to an uninformed, gullible public in order to nefariously advance their ill-conceived, xenophobic agenda. It was obvious that the EU would not continue making the payments, but VOTE LEAVE campaign propaganda assured the public that the exact opposite would occur.


Only hours after helping to convince the British to vote for Brexit, the leader of the U.K. Independence Party, Nigel Farage, said that the Brexit campaign promises were "mistakes" and he denied making those promises to voters.



Got Trump?
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 12:45pm PT
Bob D'A posted:
Really, what were a bunch of white slave owners thinking when they wrote the constitution???

At that point in time, they were not thinking the same thing that (edit: other white), brown, red, yellow and black slave owners were thinking.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
It's interesting that the concept of "originalism" had to be invented 200 years after the Constitution was written.

What's "interesting" about that? While the founders were alive, people could simply ask them what this or that point of verbiage meant. And the founders wrote voluminously, so that we would have a historical record of these very "conversations." It's only fairly recently that people have adopted an attitude of uncoupling the original meanings from "the meanings" that support their pet projects. So, yes, you are right that it's only been recently that people have had to decry this practice and refer back to the original intent/meanings.

If by "anything" you mean "levy taxes" which the Constitution clearly states it can do.

Clever, but no cigar.

The question the court took itself to be contemplating was: "Under what rubric could this possibly be sustainable." The Obama administration was initially loath to call Obamacare a "tax" because it had spent a campaign year and initial years of the administration ASSURING Americans: "If you are a family making less than $250,000 per year, you will not see any form of tax increase," and so on. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWXd0tMYuOs)

However, as the SCOTUS sentiment against Obamacare was detected, the administration's solicitors realized that this needed to be cast as a "new tax."

Not being entirely stupid, Roberts recognized this tactic for what it was, and the context of his question was: "If government can do this [anything it wants under the guise of a tax], then what can government not do [because virtually any behavior can be 'taxed' and thereby brought under the rubric of a tax]?"

THAT context was what made his ruling precedent-setting. There's nothing newsworthy about the SCOTUS agreeing that government has the power to tax!

What was newsworthy and precedent-setting was that Obamacare was accepted by the SCOTUS under the guise of a tax. That tactic broke new ground, as Roberts' effective "answer" was: "Government can call anything a tax and thereby bring it within its powers to accomplish."

Now, not only is the "interstate commerce" clause writ large, granting the feds virtually unlimited powers, the power to tax is writ large, ensuring that the feds can do anything they want under the guise of a tax.

The Constitution is not a moral document, it is a legal document.

Law that are completely uncoupled from moral values are not legitimate laws. That is why our constitution references "rights" as its moral foundation.

All laws impose certain values over others (and the lack of laws has the same effect).

True. Which is why it is so critical that we are all on the same page about what those fundamental principles (the core values) really are.

This is why the abandonment of originalism is such a critical problem. Our nation was founded on the notion of negative rights. Over time the notion of "rights" has morphed into almost totally positive rights. But that decoupling is devastating, because when we all use the term "right," we appeal to some moral foundation for this or that law we want or don't want.

But we are now living in incommensurable paradigms. We don't mean the same thing when we use the most basic and foundational of terms. Thus, what we take to be "legitimate" governmental power comes wildly apart, and we are talking past each other all the time.

The purpose of the Constitution was to create a process that we could peacefully settle our differences in values.

No, the purpose of the constitution was to establish the very nature of governmental legitimacy, as our founders were all-consumed by the crucial question: What makes any government or governmental action legitimate?

Thus, our constitution was written to recognize certain basic rights: of the people, of the states, and of the federal government. With those rights were outlined the responsibilities and spheres of power necessary for the employment of those rights in action.

Decouple the notion of what a "right" is from what the founders intended, and you have a very different "constitution."

And "making" the "constitution" "say" what you want it to say (originalism be damned) is precisely the tactic of every administration.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
thoughtful commments mb1 -and thats' coming from a social liberal!

Much appreciated, GCF!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
What part of the original wording of the Constitution, above, do you think the SCOTUS violates, by interpreting the Constitution?

I believe that I've answered that just above.

What do you think "good Behavior" means?

BTW, don't you dare go to ANY of the founders' writings to figure that one out. Deny originalism, and you're left to your own devices to answer that question. Good luck!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
Liberals and conservative agree that when SCOTUS interpretation of law crosses over into creating new law, this is unconstitutional. The problem is defining exactly where that line is.

Spot on, as far as it goes.

Another problem is that we've lost sight of the most basic meanings intended by key phrases, which has cut our "values" totally adrift.

That means that we can only and necessarily be in our current state of affairs, where "both sides" seek to load the court to ensure that their own "take" on the meanings is how things are "interpreted."
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 01:00pm PT
And the Constitution has a specific remedy for that unclarity: the legislature and executive change the law, or the country changes the Constitution, the process for which is clearly spelled out.

That's pretty blithe!

You know that "the legislature and executive" cannot trivially "change the law" once the SCOTUS has ruled. Witness just the deadlock over Obamacare. The SCOTUS ruling effectively MADE law, and then "the executive" could just sit there with the power of the veto to ensure that "the legislature" had no capacity to "make law."

Changing the constitution is far, far harder, as it should be!

The fact is (and you know this is true): Once the SCOTUS rules, it establishes law. So, it's interpretations have the de facto force of making law. And this is precisely why administrations so cherish their power to (as best they can) LOAD the court!
Norton

Social climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 01:40pm PT

warning: Text Generator In Full Force Here Today
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 26, 2016 - 01:42pm PT
Wow, Clinton up by 12 pts., and it's not even July. Adios orange drumpf! Keep sticking your foot in your mouth every chance you get! Maybe your tiny hands will somehow figure out how to yank it out before you're down by 40...
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
ask and you shall receive.

Donald J. Drumpf ✔ @realDonaldDrumpf
George Will, one of the most overrated political pundits (who lost his way long ago), has left the Republican Party.He's made many bad calls


Will responded on "Fox News Sunday," saying: "He has an advantage on me, because he can say everything he knows about any subject in 140 characters and I can't."

Baaaazinga! (no, not BENGHAZIIIIIIII!)

What a con man. If Will, a Pulitzer Prize-winner, had come out in support of Drumpf the orange turd would have responded with, "Great Guy Will. Good Friend".

The MO is beyond obvious yet so many continue to be conned.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 26, 2016 - 01:51pm PT
He's busy trying to book a cabin on the ark on the moon for when drumpf loses. Needs to get off planet and into heaven ASAP.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 03:03pm PT
Text Generator In Full Force Here Today

Wahhh, wahhh, oh hand-wringing wahhhhhhhhh.

Here, let me find my wahhhmulance report for you, so that you can call in the help you need.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
trump = greed.

clinton = greed.

You guys are not getting the "progressive" you think you are.

Unless Wall Street and big-banking interests are "progressive."
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
Isn't it great that the masterful troll posing as Klimmer takes the lords day off.

It's confusing. I asked him if he keeps the Jewish Sabbath, and he assured me that he does.

I suspect that he was being disingenuous, as Saturday-keepers are not Sunday-keepers. I think he knew where I was headed with my line of questioning and went with his lame "keep all days holy" line of garbage.

Who knows?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 26, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
You guys are not getting the "progressive" you think you are.

Well, speaking for myself, I don't think of Clinton as a progressive. I see her as a center or slightly right of center democrat. However, she's not pushing a platform of alienation in our hugely diverse country, and the other candidate is.

I really think it boils down to the lens people see life through.

Personally, I try, and mostly succeed, at seeing life through a lens of love, rather than hate. I'll be voting for the candidate that seems to me to be more inclusive, rather than exclusive.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 03:32pm PT
she's not pushing a platform of alienation in our hugely diverse country, and the other candidate is.

There's some truth to that, imo. Although, I think that her efforts to appear "progressive" have pushed her to adopt some stances (that she probably honestly doesn't adhere to) that are entirely hopeless attempts to split the baby. Those stances, then, end up being divisive.

She should, for example, tell the BLM crew: "We need to ensure that law enforcement affords equal protection for all citizens. However, your hobby horse is misguided, as your 'paradigm' cases of police misusing force against blacks are terrible examples. And, you should be first in line to talk about black lives mattering in the top-five most violent cities in America, yet you have nothing to say about that." Instead she panders to them, and mainstream America ain't buying it. Her stance is just kicking the can down the road, as the situation escalates.

But your overarching point seems to be that she's less flagrantly divisive than His Hairness, and on that I would agree.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jun 26, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
Well, speaking for myself, I don't think of Clinton as a progressive. I see her as a center or slightly right of center democrat. However, she's not pushing a platform of alienation in our hugely diverse country, and the other candidate is.

I really think it boils down to the lens people see life through.

Personally, I try, and mostly succeed, at seeing life through a lens of love, rather than hate. I'll be voting for the candidate that seems to me to be more inclusive, rather than exclusive.

Ummm. Start using reason a bit more. Little less emotion.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 26, 2016 - 05:23pm PT
At this point, the best we can do is start thinking ahead, to find someone to replace Hillary in 2020. This presidential election cycle is a lost cause, and all we can do is ensure that the lesser of two evils is chosen, and not that Cheeto-faced Shitgibbon who thinks he's the King of the World.


At the Congressional and local level, we can piggy-back on Shitgibbon's insanity to discredit other Republicans and get them out of office.





The fact is, Hillary is far from being an ideal candidate, but she is the only feasible candidate, at this point.


Hillary has shown herself to be on the payroll of the big banks. Earning hundreds of thousands of dollars for "speeches" is bribery, graft, corruption, or whatever you want to call it. If I give a "friend" a $500 "gift", and she reciprocates with a sex act, that is prostitution. If Hillary earns $500,000 to give a fifteen minute pep-talk to a bunch of Wall Street bankers, that is bribery.



Hillary has intentionally and illegally hidden State Department communications from both the government and the public. This is particularly disturbing, given that the Clinton Foundation has received millions and millions of dollars from foreign nations with which Hillary had official business with as Secretary of State. Those missing emails may very well document conflicts-of-interest, and decisions that have benefited Hillary and her cronies directly, while hurting the United States.

Why else would she hide and destroy those emails?


sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 26, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
Vlad Putin 2020, hammer in one hand, sickle in the other
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 26, 2016 - 06:03pm PT
Tom...maybe because of the same reason this guy did...http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/234999-powell-i-retained-none-of-my-state-emails
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 26, 2016 - 06:04pm PT
35 pdf pages worth or facts all researched and sourced with clickable links ...

There are no facts in there, only propaganda. Here is the fact: Hillary will become our next president in November because God wills it. This will be proven on election day, and there will then be no denying that God preferred Hillary over Trump. You will then have to admit it.

Curt
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jun 26, 2016 - 06:57pm PT



The off-topic marmot on the face of the moon. No Joke.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 26, 2016 - 07:07pm PT
You're Canadian. Why bother with this thread? Go drink a Beer and watch a hockey game.

sik burn braj
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 07:09pm PT

Klimner everybody else knows now.
We will know in November.

What are you gonna do when Trump goes down? BTW this may well be before November.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 26, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
You're Canadian. Why bother with this thread? Go drink a Beer and watch a hockey game.


HaHaHaHaHahHhhhahahahaha Ay!

only sh#t talkin goin on now, the winner will be cuncluded after the one on one debate..
Norton

Social climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 07:27pm PT
how many Electoral College Votes does it take become President again?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 26, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
Bob D'A, Powell didn't destroy or hide his emails. He said that he, personally, didn't retain them, or make copies. He used the State Department's email server, and he is not sure if the State Department saved the emails or not.

Hillary intentionally used an unapproved, personal server, and then defied official requests for the contents of the emails. She claimed that she only wanted to use one Blackberry email device, which is absurd. She traveled with a small army of assistants, any one of which could have juggled a dozen phones and email devices.

The email situation is so strange, and Hillary is so evasive, you have to wonder what motivated her to behave in such a manner while Secretary of State.




I am more disturbed by her taking huge sums from corporations and banks.

Those guys are going to want to get something for their money, and not just a Rah-rah-rah, GO TEAM cheerleader show by an aging matron in a shapeless pantsuit.

Does anybody even know how much of the Clinton Foundation money passes directly to Bill and Hillary? Their net worth skyrocketed over the past decade, or so.


The healthcare "reform" that she (and Obama) are pushing serves mostly to further entrench the obscene profitability of the health insurance, pharmaceutical, medical device and corporate hospital industries.

Nowhere in their "reform" is there any real effort to rein in and control the rapacious health care-related corporations. Some of the most powerful lobbyists in Washington represent those corporations, and Congress and the President willingly do their bidding, and increase their profits and their political power.


Hillary will be a disaster, just not at a Trump level of disaster.




What do you want? AIDS, or cancer.

Norton

Social climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
Have lots of doubts about both Trump and Clinton?

Then don't vote!

or maybe write in yourself or the Green Party or Libertarian peope.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 26, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
^^^ id write in Biden. He speaks the most about the message, and not the messenger.


I am more disturbed by her taking huge sums from corporations and banks.

How does her backers give her a greenlight when she receives private money from Saudi Arabia AND Iran???
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
No way man, no way. Write in Frank Zappa.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 26, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
The email situation is so strange, and Hillary is so evasive, you have to wonder what motivated her to behave in such a manner while Secretary of State.

I put it down to Ed Snowden. They don't want to acknowledge that his actions changed the actions of Cabinet-level leaders.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 26, 2016 - 08:26pm PT
What are you gonna do when Trump goes down? BTW this may well be before November.

He will then have to admit that his God and Trump are both frauds.

Curt
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 26, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
"Hillary will be a disaster"

Fortune teller?

Ask the people of NY is she was a disaster. They re-elected her to the Senate with 67% of the vote. She has a record of being extremely hard working.

Yeah, she didn't follow proper State Dept e-mail procedures. Totally overblown "scandal", in my opinion. Serious? Sure, but not a deal breaker.

All in all, she's held up well for being the Republicans Public Enemy #1 or 2 for more than 20 years. That alone should qualify her for the job.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
Very good analysis/summation in your last two posts, Tom. Much appreciated.
c wilmot

climber
Jun 26, 2016 - 08:42pm PT
the email issues is not minor

if she cant maintain the standards asked of the lowest level govt employee than what can she do?

and her foreign policy was a disaster during her time as Secretary of state
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 26, 2016 - 08:46pm PT
I have to vote. Everyone must vote.

If not for Hillary, then at least against Trump.



Obama in 2012 was similarly the lesser of two evils. Many of Obama's 2008 promises were deliberately deceitful, blatant lies.

He said he would have the most open, transparent administration in history. Then, his was the most secretive. It was during Obama's term in office that Wikileaks, Manning and Snowden showed just how secretive and deceitful the government had become.

Obama said he would encourage and applaud government whistle-blowers. Then, he invoked the Espionage Act more than all former presidents combined, to harass, intimidate and persecute government whistle blowers.



When a transparent government that respects the privacy of its citizens turns inside out, and becomes an opaque surveillance state watching everybody, something is tremendously wrong.


Just on the surveillance issue alone, Obama has been a disaster. But, probably not a disaster on the level of a President McCain or Romney.





I put it down to Ed Snowden. They don't want to acknowledge that his actions changed the actions of Cabinet-level leaders.


Ken B has a very good point there. It would be internationally embarrassing to acknowledge that a low-level CIA contractor acting alone could influence foreign and domestic policy.



But, again, the use of the private email server was used to conceal government business from the public, and that exacerbates the whole opaque surveillance state situation.

As President, Hillary will be more exposed to embarrassing situations, and she will probably further conceal what the government is up to. And, she will allow the NSA to continue its illegal surveillance of private citizens.

Disaster.


madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 26, 2016 - 09:19pm PT
I have sinned at the alter of the ST politard forum threads.
I fed the troll, not once but on several occasions.

ROFL

Yeah, and it's been forever since my last confession. You are holier than I.

Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Jun 26, 2016 - 09:28pm PT
I am more disturbed by her taking huge sums from corporations and banks.

You should be, it will place her and not The Donald or which ever replacement that slithers from the Cleveland convention into the White House.

The flood gates for more money was ushered in by Cit. United...

... things come home to roost.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 27, 2016 - 12:10am PT
Schoolies for Trump


Oh, how they worship at the altar of Dreamboat Donny.





Our Trump, in Mar-a-Lago, hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come, your will be done, in America, as it is in Hades.
Give us, this day, our daily dread.
And never forgive those trespassers, as we don't forgive those who have trespassed into America.
Then, lead us off into temptation, and deliver us your evil.
For, yours is the greed for the power and the glory, for ever and ever.
Satanas vobiscum.


Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 27, 2016 - 06:27am PT
Trump, Clinton less popular than NRA, Planned Parenthood: Poll finds
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 27, 2016 - 06:52am PT
I am more disturbed by her taking huge sums from corporations and banks.

In this respect, Clinton has done little different than any other major party candidate running for president in recent history--except for Bernie. If this is what really bothers you, blame the system that requires raising hundreds of millions of dollars to run for President--not Hillary.

Curt
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 27, 2016 - 07:02am PT
Actually, the most disturbing would be her murderous behavior as Secretary of State.

Her support of the empire's neocon agenda in the ME/North Africa is far worse than improper email servers or the obvious millions in bribes that 'everyone does'.

Sad state we're in.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 27, 2016 - 07:29am PT
Trump thinks he is G_d so accepting his son makes sense.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 27, 2016 - 07:43am PT
Trump acceptance of Jebus is nothing more than him knowing how to brilliantly work the scam

Say whatever the idiots want to hear, if they want you to say you Love Jebus, then you will say you accepted Jebus as your personal savior,
"The Bible is my favorite book!"

what a crock of sh#t

It's all about the con.

I do demand that Klimmer go on an apology tour on ST after Trump fails to Win.

Trump will either bail from the con with his pockets full of cash, or the GOP will kick him to the curb and install an establishment Neo-con, or he will lose to Hillary.

That is G-d's prophecy.

Norton

Social climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:13am PT
One assumes the Donald will be outraged


he may well be, but first he has to find someone to explain it to him
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:16am PT

I do demand that Klimmer go on an apology tour on ST after Trump fails to Win.

After trump loses, I don't think we will hear from Klimmer again.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:18am PT
Meanwhile sticking to more secular matters




http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/27/people-are-losing-their-minds-over-trumpgirlsbreaktheinternet/?utm_campaign=thedcmainpage&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social

six sigma cant solve this problem!
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:33am PT
Klimmer and pyro, here is your tough guy strongman candidate mocking a disabled person:




Klimmer: I guess you and G-d love presidents who bully disabled people.

dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:38am PT
don't you mean differently abled?
couchmaster

climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:58am PT
Whoa, don't show Hillary this or she'll be jumping ship and voting Trump. Every election seems to bring out some interesting things, this one more than most it seems. Interesting phenomena that appears to have just started and there's already thousands of these kinds of pictures.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3520973/Babes-Trump-Twitter-page-tries-Make-America-Great-photos-scantily-clad-women-promoting-GOP-frontrunner.html


#Babesfortrump indeed.

http://twitter.com/hashtag/BabesForTrump?src=hash


Etc etc
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 09:14am PT
Meh.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 27, 2016 - 09:16am PT
I'd hashtag'em good
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 27, 2016 - 09:19am PT
Trump is accepting jeebus in the same way he accepts business loans - don't count on him making good on any of it.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 09:28am PT
yep, a real President puts his own wealth bragging rights ahead of the country

@realDonaldTrump

I am "the king of debt."That has been great for me as a businessman, but is bad for the country. I made a fortune off of debt,
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 27, 2016 - 09:28am PT
Dr. James Dobson says Trump accepted Jesus Christ

One fraud working hand in hand with another--professional courtesy, perhaps.

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 09:29am PT


how old is the earth, klimmer?
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 27, 2016 - 09:46am PT
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 27, 2016 - 09:59am PT
Norton, so what'cha got now? Ha.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 27, 2016 - 10:06am PT
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 27, 2016 - 10:07am PT
The Earth is about 4.56B years old.


Wait! I thought you believed in the inherent truth of sacred scripture?

What happened to the 5761 year timeline?

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 27, 2016 - 10:10am PT
Good to know firsthand exactly the level of delusion we're dealing with in trump supporters.

Pretty much buying into exactly the same nationalism, racism and xenophobia which brought the nazis to power.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 10:12am PT
She went back to sleep.



Jesus Christ you are one gullible mofo, Klimmer.




http://www.factcheck.org/2016/04/trump-on-clintons-3-a-m-call/
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 27, 2016 - 10:33am PT
Trump will make America great by piling up more debt, like the Great Reagan!


Donald Trump Would Push Debt To Highest Level In U.S. History, Report Says

Making America great again — by running up huge IOUs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-debt_us_57701efbe4b0dbb1bbbae2c9?section=

The centerpiece of Trump’s agenda is a series of proposed tax cuts, including new breaks for businesses and reductions in individual rates, that past studies have shown would disproportionately benefit wealthy Americans. The committee’s researchers, working from estimates by the (also nonpartisan) Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, determined that, taken together, the tax cuts would add something like $9.25 trillion in new debt over the next 10 years. (For these and other projections, committee researchers produced three separate estimates to generate a range of possibilities and then used the one in the middle for their main analysis.)

Other items on Trump’s agenda, including his promises to overhaul veteran services and repeal the Affordable Care Act, would add a few hundred billion dollars to that total. With no significant new revenues or spending cuts to offset these costs, and with the higher interest payments that so much new borrowing would require, the cumulative impact of Trump’s agenda would probably be around $11.5 trillion in additional federal debt over 10 years, the committee’s researchers found.





So what if she went to sleep, it wasn't like 911 and my pet goat.

There wasn't much she could do at the time of the attack, since it was in the CIAs hands at the time. What was she going do anyway? send in the investigators?
oh wait, she did that.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 10:36am PT
Oh I see.

There is an "investigation going on" so I'm wrong.

You're making sh#t up Klimmer.

Even if there is an investigation going on you have no idea what it will find. And btw, there has been a fooking investigation going on for years now and they've found nothing to substantiate your baseless horsesh#t..


Did Jesus or some weirdo on YouTube claiming to speak with Jesus tell you what they would find?

Trump said it, you believe it, so that settles it.

You're being conned. Normally I might simply laugh at stooges like you and your gullibility, but people like you breed, vote and occasionally teach children.

In other words, your abject stupidity affects me.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 10:57am PT
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:07am PT
As we all know, movies are the best source of factual information...

Don't worry, Locker. Klimmer says:

Fox News reports more information is coming out...

I sure feel better now :-)

Curt
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:07am PT
You mean the Republican-led Benghazi Hoax committee (after at least 5 others found no wrongdoing) that was convened with the specific goal of inflicting political damage to Hillary Clinton will finally release their findings? Can't imagine what took them so long.

Meanwhile, back on 4.5 billion year-old Earth, Elizabeth Warren is finally on the stump for Hillary:

“Hillary has brains, she has guts, she has thick skin and steady hands, but most of all, she has a good heart. And that's what America needs!” Warren said.

Let the blue blazers take it from here...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:11am PT
Oh yes, let's let the blue blazers take it from here. They will fix it.

You mean the Benghazi thing was politically motivated? Is that sort of like the IRS going after conservative groups?

You mean that kind of politically motivated?

PPfft.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:14am PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:21am PT

Crooked Hillary Clinton is giving a speech now- discussing the Orlando attack. She pivoted to gun control again -- and restrictions. She refused to mention terrorism as the cause of the shooting in Orlando.

Orlando Terrorist Swore Allegiance To ISIS Before The Shooting That Killed 50 People. “Omar S. Mateen, the Florida resident suspected of killing 50 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, called 911 before the shooting and swore allegiance to Islamic State, NBC News said on Twitter. In a posting on its web site, MSNBC said Mateen swore allegiance to Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.” (Timothy Ahmann, “Suspected Orlando Shooter Called 911, Swore Allegiance To Islamic State: NBC,” Reuters, 6/12/16)
This Is Consistent With Clinton’s Past Denials Of Radical Islam

Clinton Refuses To Categorize Terror As “Radical Islam.” ABC’S GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: “You’ve also been reluctant to say we’re fighting radical Islam. I wonder why not. Isn’t it a mistake to not say it plain that the violence is being pushed by radical elements in that faith?” CLINTON: “Well, that’s a different thing. Radical elements who use a dangerous and distorted view of Islam to promote their jihadist ambitions, I’m fine with that. I say it all the time. And I go after Islamists, too.” STEPHANOPOULOS: “So what’s the problem with radical Islam?” CLINTON: “Well, the problem is that that sounds like we are declaring a war against religion. And that, to me, is number one, wrong.” (ABC’s “This Week,” 12/6/15)

D.T.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:22am PT
Sorry, Klimmer.

http:/https://www.yahoo.com/news/dems-clinton-never-personally-denied-benghazi-security-160952701--politics.html

Curt
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:26am PT
Let's just come out and say it; Trump's presidency is mandated by God.

Shuffle along the stages of grief suckers, but accept the fact that the anti-Christ Hildabeast is being vanquished by God.


hehehe
Norton

Social climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:31am PT
Stop it

We are nothing more or less than evolved primates

The laws of nature and physics have never been broken by command or incantation.

Deal with it, grow up,
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:34am PT
I would maybe vote for the first woman president, but she would have look remotely feminine, even a little bit. Hillary pantsuits are terrible.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:37am PT
Breaking news!!

Imaginary Sky Wizard and aliens from Lunar Ark endorse Trump!!





Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:39am PT
So that GCF doesn't have to do all the heavy lifting...

Barring unexpected developments - and as politics is subject to chaos theory, those always have to be allowed for - Clinton will be nominated by the Democrats and Trump by the Republicans. Otherwise, at this point the election seems a lock for Clinton - although perhaps only 10% of voters are undecided. The key remaining questions, then:

1. Economy. (Perceptions, claims, reality.)

2. Getting a high turn out to the polls, especially of young people.

3. Ensuring that Clinton wins as many 'swing' states as possible.

4. Ensuring that as many Democrats as possible are elected to the Senate and House.

5. The vice-presidential nominees for each party. Clinton is 68, Trump is 70. The latter at least clearly isn't physically fit. At the end of a first term, Clinton would be 73, Trump 75. Which means that in the interests of their country, both should nominate someone who is younger, but with credible support and experience. Just in case.

It seems likely that Clinton will pick someone who is moderately liberal, younger, has experience, and who can be presented as a more attractive if not populist person, so appealing in particular to young people. The US may not be ready for an all-female ticket, but it wouldn't be surprising if Clinton chose someone of say Hispanic descent.

As Trump is well behind in current polls, he seems likely to do a McCain, and try something extreme. He has nothing to lose. Ultimately, though, he's most likely to double down, throwing more red meat to his base, and ignoring advisors who undoubtedly are urging him to pick someone reasonably stable who will broaden the ticket.

Should Trump be elected, it seems likely that the world will fall into a recession, which the Russians and Chinese will look upon with glee. And, given the checks and balances built into the US system, that he will either resign or be impeached within two years.

(The main sources of unexpected developments being exposes of Trump's sleazy record, Europe and the United Kingdom, and world economies. There seems little doubt that the US Federal Reserve will move heaven and earth from now to November, to keep interest rates low and reduce the possibility of a recession, after almost eight years of steady growth under Obama.)

And I suggest the Klimbo read up on Zoroastrianism, the basis for his bizarre mish-mash of Judaism, Christianity, and gullibility.

Edit: Neither Trump's supposed religion, nor Clinton's, is of much relevance to what will happen. Clinton is nominally a Methodist, but like most of the US leadership is likely in reality a deist or agnostic. Trump is clearly not religious in any meaningful sense of the word.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 27, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
So, the current status is that this thread is the new anti-religion thread and no longer about Drumph?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 12:11pm PT
Crooked Hillary Clinton is giving a speech now- discussing the Orlando attack. She pivoted to gun control again -- and restrictions. She refused to mention terrorism as the cause of the shooting in Orlando.

Orlando Terrorist Swore Allegiance To ISIS Before The Shooting That Killed 50 People. “Omar S. Mateen, the Florida resident suspected of killing 50 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, called 911 before the shooting and swore allegiance to Islamic State, NBC News said on Twitter. In a posting on its web site, MSNBC said Mateen swore allegiance to Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.” (Timothy Ahmann, “Suspected Orlando Shooter Called 911, Swore Allegiance To Islamic State: NBC,” Reuters, 6/12/16)
This Is Consistent With Clinton’s Past Denials Of Radical Islam

Clinton Refuses To Categorize Terror As “Radical Islam.” ABC’S GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: “You’ve also been reluctant to say we’re fighting radical Islam. I wonder why not. Isn’t it a mistake to not say it plain that the violence is being pushed by radical elements in that faith?” CLINTON: “Well, that’s a different thing. Radical elements who use a dangerous and distorted view of Islam to promote their jihadist ambitions, I’m fine with that. I say it all the time. And I go after Islamists, too.” STEPHANOPOULOS: “So what’s the problem with radical Islam?” CLINTON: “Well, the problem is that that sounds like we are declaring a war against religion. And that, to me, is number one, wrong.” (ABC’s “This Week,” 12/6/15)

D.T.







Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 27, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
Trump's words take solid form!

http://www.satirewire.com/content1/?p=6073
Norton

Social climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 12:19pm PT

“I went to an Ivy League school.  I’m very highly educated.  I know words.  I have the best words,”

D Trump
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 12:29pm PT

:-)


More:

http://uproxx.com/webculture/donald-trump-calvin-and-hobbes/
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 27, 2016 - 12:31pm PT
just say yesh to Yeshua
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
locker posted:
As we all know, movies are the best source of factual information...


Actually it's comedy shows...Many folks didn't know how to think about it all when Jon Stewart quit ;-)
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 27, 2016 - 01:13pm PT
America under Trump--adding $10 Trillion to the debt

https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-trump-budget-tax-plans-173042051.html

Curt
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 27, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
Dr. James Dobson says Trump accepted Jesus Christ

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trumps-bid-to-become-born-again-fails-as-jesus-turns-down-friend-request

Sorry, Donald.

Curt
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 27, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
only Klimmerabi's upinya matters
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 27, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
Can you say "President Clinton?"

Sure.....I knew you could.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 01:42pm PT

That's "Mistress Clinton."

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 27, 2016 - 01:46pm PT
So, the current status is that this thread is the new anti-religion thread and no longer about Drumph?


Klimmer made it about God, c'mon Escargot.

But you're right, Drumpf is the head idiot in charge.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 27, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
So we are blaming Klimmer for everyone else's posts? Good grief.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
Quite a leap of "logic" there.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 27, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
The royal WE. Which doesn't include you. lol
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 27, 2016 - 02:19pm PT
You are wrong. So is the source that you use. There is an investigation still going on and the results are coming out. The full report will be out very soon. Your information is in error.

Klimmer, you have to be smarter about your lies.

The President has NOT been asked to testify, as you wrote.

Your assertion of Clinton sleeping through the attack is hilarious. The attack occurred at 3:42 PM EST----the MIDDLE OF THE AFTERNOON. What schedule do you think she keeps? A teacher's schedule, where the day is over at 3pm???

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 27, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
You mean the Benghazi thing was politically motivated? Is that sort of like the IRS going after conservative groups?

Exactly like it, when actual investigation found that they targeted BOTH liberal and conservative groups, about the same amount.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
Huckabee FURIOUS After He’s Forced To Pay $25k For Playing ‘Eye Of The Tiger’ At Kim Davis Rally


When Kim Davis made her way “back on the street” after doing her time and taking her chances, then-presidential candidate Mike Huckabee triumphantly played Survivor’s “Eye of the Tiger” to welcome the bigoted Kentucky county clerk back to the civilization whose laws she refused to respect

“NO! We did not grant Kim Davis any rights to use ‘My Tune -The Eye Of The Tiger.’ I would not grant her the rights to use Charmin!” a furious Sullivan wrote on Twitter following Davis and Huckabee’s stunt. “See Ya really SoooooooonnnnnN!!!”


Since Huckabee’s campaign was perpetually broke, the 2016 washout petitioned the FEC to allow him to set up a special legal defense fund, but the FEC told him to bootstrap it up and pay the money himself.


MORAL - Don't Mess With Us Musicians Like Me and Locker

dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 27, 2016 - 02:36pm PT
Norton

Social climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
Trump Could Trigger The Longest Recession Since The Great Depression, Report Says

Donald Trump’s economic policies are so bad that they would produce the longest U.S. recession since the Great Depression, a report from economists at Moody’s Analytics found last week.

The result: the U.S. will go into recession at the start of 2018 and not emerge until 2020. Instead of 6 million new jobs being created, 3.4 million Americans would lose their jobs. Gross domestic product will fall by 2.4 percent.

Vote Trump And Vote For RECESSION

but Klimmer doesn't care, he is a government employee, nothing for him to worry about
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 27, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
Norton I was thinking of the great bail out of 2008. what if Obama just gave the people the money then told em what to buy with it.. would that have been better?
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jun 27, 2016 - 02:54pm PT

Just to sum up and finish this thread...

The question was: Ready for Donald ?

The final answer is of course: No.
Coach37

Social climber
Philly
Jun 27, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
"Yeshua"

Sounds like my old GF from New Yawk.

ME: Hey sweetie, could you grab me a beer while you're up?
HER: Yeah, shua, what kind didya want?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 27, 2016 - 03:14pm PT
Bush did give us cash and told us to spend it

He told us to support the war with Iraq by "going shopping"

no what if's

It seems most these Trump supporters just woke up last year
Where have they been all these years?
Asleep? Head buried in the sand?


Didn't they look into any of this before.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 27, 2016 - 03:21pm PT
Was that before or after the missing 24k emails? Lol.

Some of you retards are like the bear man. You think you're friends and the bear loves you till it runs out of things to eat.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 03:27pm PT
Ken M posted:
when actual investigation found that they targeted BOTH liberal and conservative groups, about the same amount.

With the IRS, I recall Lois Lerner first publicly apologized specifically to conservative groups, then as a witness took the 5th on the grounds that she would possibly self incriminate.

The IRS was subpoenaed to provide emails. The IRS, instead of complying with the subpoena, said it was itself reviewing the emails in question and was considering which ones to release.
A year later, the IRS admitted that it had not, in fact, reviewed the emails in question, because they had been lost in a computer crash two months before it claimed to be reviewing them.
The IRS also said copies of the emails were lost, because while under subpoena, it had destroyed the “backup tapes” (whatever those are) that held them and that it had also thrown away actual hard drives.

Then there's ex-commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service Douglas Shulman who visited Obama’s White House 118 times in 2010 and 2011. His successor also dropped in often.
But under George W. Bush, the tax chief visited once in four years.

Shulman is the same guy who, with a straight face, answered Congress’ questions about the 118 visits with the alibi that he visited the White House to attend “the Easter Egg Roll, with my kids.”
That’s a lot of Easter Eggs.

dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 27, 2016 - 03:32pm PT
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 27, 2016 - 03:36pm PT
Sorry Curt lame humor.

I don't happen to think adding $10 trillion to the debt is funny.

Curt
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
Klimmer is a gullible brother...
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 27, 2016 - 03:51pm PT
I don't happen to think adding $10 trillion to the debt is funny.

I don't either! Is it funnier (or gets, somehow, a pass or a wink) if done by a democrat?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/1/obama-presidency-to-end-with-20-trillion-national-/

Do we just blame another almost $10 trillion on the Bush administration, or do the dems finally get to own this?

Oh, and this debt came with artificially-reduced interest rates (and the hidden but very real inflation that goes with that), meaning that not only do we owe twice as much but our money is also worth less to us.

Sweet action.

But, you know, with both Sanders and Clinton promising more and more "free" stuff, well, money must grow on trees somewhere. The dems will find that tree somehow, somewhere.

Oh, wait. It's us, the middle class. The middle class Obama promised would "never see one dime of new taxes." And then Obamacare sailed by the SCOTUS as a "new tax."

Uh huh.

The middle class will perpetually pay more and yet go deeper into debt.

Did I mention: Sweet action?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 03:54pm PT
Debts typically rise during recessions: we just had a doozy.

How much would Clintons plan increase the debt? By several Benghazions?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 03:55pm PT
"Yeshua or no answer"


Gud one!
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 27, 2016 - 04:01pm PT
Dishonest? Sorry, Klimmer, but I deal in facts, not Arks on the Moon.

Bye Bye, Trump.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clinton-opens-12-point-lead-trump-thirds-biased/story?id=40114224

Curt
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jun 27, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
Trump is accepting jeebus in the same way he accepts business loans

So when he goes to confess his sins, he just says, "Chapter 11"?
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 27, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
Ready for Gary Johnson!!

Make America Sane again
[quote]http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/libertarian-nominee-seeks-mainstream-appeal/vi-AAhGtGZ?ocid=spartanntp[/quote]

Trump is terrible, Hillary is corrupt and terrible. There has to be another option. I think he could be a great solution.

https://johnsonweld.com/

I almost posted a new thread but didn't want to do that to the taco, too many political threads.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jun 27, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
And he "climbed" Everest,
Norton

Social climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
New Priorities USA Ad Out Today - Dante


[Click to View YouTube Video]
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 27, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
How about a list of the "FREE STUFF" you claim they claim to want to GIVE away???

How about you demonstrate a bit of intellectual honesty to find the list yourself. If you care about the truth, it's trivially available online. I'm not going to do your work for you.

Particularly in the case of Sanders, it's shocking you would even have the temerity to ask.

Oh, and the "recession" argument is really lame; this is just a version of "Republicans' fault" again.

When Bush adds to the debt, it's clearly his fault. When Obama doubles it yet again, somehow it's still Bush's fault.

Yeah, yeah.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 27, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
When Bush adds to the debt, it's clearly his fault. When Obama doubles it yet again, somehow it's still Bush's fault.

Yes, it is. Bush dug a hole it could take a upwards of a couple of decades to climb out of. It's really no different than the couple of decades their shitstorm in the Mideast will take to calm down or how long it will take to repair our reputation (if that ever recovers).

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 27, 2016 - 07:26pm PT
^^^^^Looks to me like Bush was the only pres in 85 years under whom revenue exceeded spending, albeit briefly.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 27, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
Quote Here
My current banner add is for toilet cleaning gel. I wonder if that will work better than regular scrubbing bubbles? Anyone know the best way to clean the terlit?

I got one for "Grindr" which is a homosexual hookup site.

Not that there's anything wrong with that... of course.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 27, 2016 - 07:48pm PT
I don't get ads on my supertopo.

I promise you......its far better than greasemonkey.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
Shulman is the same guy who, with a straight face, answered Congress’ questions about the 118 visits with the alibi that he visited the White House to attend “the Easter Egg Roll, with my kids.”
That’s a lot of Easter Eggs.



And yet, you give no evidence nor links that the IRS targeted Conservatives more than Liberal groups for violation of corporate law.

Are you in favor of violations of law? Seems like radical conservatives are, any time it puts another dime in their pocket....
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
Yes Obama is refusing to testify before the Bengahzi Commission. His lawyers have told him not too.

No, the President has NOT been asked to testify.

So you are repeating your lies.

Do you not speak English? Do you not know the meaning of the word "testify"?

I particularly enjoy watching someone misuse words, when he screams about originalism in interpreting the Constitution. I guess it means that you will interpret those words anyway that is convenient.

Wacko conservatives----no morals, no meaning to their lives.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:11pm PT

LIAR
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
How about a list of the "FREE STUFF" you claim they claim to want to GIVE away???
=
How about you demonstrate a bit of intellectual honesty to find the list yourself. If you care about the truth, it's trivially available online. I'm not going to do your work for you.

Particularly in the case of Sanders, it's shocking you would even have the temerity to ask.

Interesting. Sanders is not in the running for President.
So you can't support your assertion about Clinton, as usual.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
Damn Klimmer, you sure know a lot and are always right. Pretty frickin' amazing. It's pretty lucky school is out so you can spend all that quality time on the interwebs. Seriously dude, stop drinking the Kool-Aid®, you'll get heartburn in November (pretty cool little trademark symbol there don't you think Klimmer?)

@ madbolter1

How about you demonstrate a bit of intellectual honesty to find the list yourself. If you care about the truth, it's trivially available online. I'm not going to do your work for you.

It's your assertion madbolter, so you provide the proof. That's the way it works; if you assert something you have to provide the proof, not ask someone who disagrees with you to prove it for you. Talk about 'intellectual dishonesty'..................

@ Reilly: Actually, it was Clinton who had the positive cash flow. Bush gave it all to his rich buddies.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:24pm PT

The result: the U.S. will go into recession at the start of 2018 and not emerge until 2020. Instead of 6 million new jobs being created, 3.4 million Americans would lose their jobs. Gross domestic product will fall by 2.4 percent.

Vote Trump And Vote For RECESSION

You better bet the Kochs and Trumps LOVE this idea. Increase unemployment means downward pressure on pay, meaning that they will make MUCH LARGER PROFITS (as happened in the recession)

It means that they can buy up assets that are devalued, with all the spare cash they have, and double their money during the recovery (as happened in the recession)

It means that they can stiff contractors, who will not have the assets to sue for what they are owed.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:26pm PT
Bring it in closer and that was Clinton - it all came to crashing halt immediately after W and crew came in:

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:36pm PT
it could take a upwards of a couple of decades to climb out of

Oooo... that's a good one!

So, I guess that the dems' strategy is to "dig out" BY doubling the debt and more deficit spending.

That money's just GOT to be growing around here somewhere, and, dang it, we'll just spend until we find it! Eventually, we'll just HAVE to have dug out.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:39pm PT
So, I guess that the dems' strategy is to "dig out" BY doubling the debt and more deficit spending.

You can give up already on the myth that the Republican party is the party of fiscal conservatism. That hasn't been true since Eisenhower. Since then Republicans have spent more and expanded government far more than Democratic administrations. So, please give that one a rest.
Curt
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:49pm PT
It's your assertion, you provide the proof.

It's also my assertion that 2 + 2 = 4 and that the sun will rise tomorrow.

Oh, and that the Earth is a sphere.

My "assertion" is so trivially demonstrated online that I seriously am not going pander to the "prove it" ridiculousness.

Just to point you in the right direction, how about this? http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/21/hillary-hits-bernie-for-offering-free-everything-slammed-jeb-for-making-same-critique-video/

With Sanders, it's so flagrant that even Clinton bags on him about it.

But she's not immune and has to prove her "progressive" (freebies) chops:

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/27/hillary-clinton-hints-at-giant-trump-like-giveaway-to-corporate-america/

Yeah! Clinton the "progressive," indeed.

Or, how about her proposed free universal pre-school? https://www.hillaryclinton.com/the-briefing/fact-sheet-universal-pre-school/

Or her proposed free child-care? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/12/the-enormous-ambition-of-hillary-clintons-child-care-plan/

Awesome!

Let's push for a $15 per hour minimum wage (affecting the very sorts of worker that do child care) and then make it free or heavily-subsidized (at that higher rate of pay). Yayyyy. Free stuff for all (except for the middle class taxpayers that end up paying for everything).

I can do this all night. There's more where this came from.

If you guys are so lame (and still stupidly believing that Hillary is anything but a finger-to-the-wind, big-banking, big-corporate stoolie), then you are not even trying to see the truth of what she really is.

As I said, look for yourself in a spirit of true intellectual honesty, and you'll find piles of evidence of her promised give-aways, just trying to pander to her big-monied interests while still trying to keep up with Bernie (a hard act to follow on his give-away front).
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:51pm PT
Since then Republicans have spent more and expanded government far more than Democratic administrations.

Prove it.

Prove exactly how Obama has spent LESS and expanded government LESS than did Bush. Explain how Obamacare was a step toward SMALLER, less-intrusive government. Show how his doubling of the debt was actually a step in the right direction.

Uh huh.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
the myth that the Republican party is the party of fiscal conservatism

That much is true. The repubs are sickening in their own right!

But the dems have NO moral high ground here.

It's as I said before, both sides are after their own version of majority faction, with nary a genuine thought about the destruction of the middle class.

Obama: "This is my promise to the American people. If your family makes less than $250,000 per year, you will never see one dime in new taxes."

Uh huh.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 27, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
madbolter now changes tune and says 'prove it'. Yet just a minute ago you claimed that

How about you demonstrate a bit of intellectual honesty to find the list yourself. If you care about the truth, it's trivially available online. I'm not going to do your work for you.

Pretty serious intellectual honesty there, cognitive dissonance mb.

Edited to add: Man, you should step back a bit and read your own stuff and then follow your own rules. Weird. But then you'd be going in circles. Sort of a Catch 22. Ever read the book?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 27, 2016 - 09:02pm PT
"What she really is" you haven't a clue. Lost such as you are.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 27, 2016 - 09:08pm PT
madbolter now changes tune and says 'prove it'.

The difference, since you are determined to not detect it, is that my assertions are COMMON knowledge, with even Hillary herself bagging on Sanders about his piles of give-aways. And it's COMMON knowledge (as it made national news) about her recent give-away proposals. I merely asserted what is COMMON knowledge, with my VERY assertion the subject of multiple national news articles. So, you have to be like a flat-earther to deny my assertion.

By contrast, you are trying to assert what is obviously false: that Obama has been more fiscally responsible than Bush, that dems are more "small government" and "responsible spending" than modern repubs. You cannot "obviously" sustain such a claim in the face of Obamacare and Obama doubling the debt during his presidency.

So, unlike my assertions that are flagrantly true and trivially demonstrated as true, your assertions are flagrantly false. I want to see (because I sure can't find it with genuine looking) how you think you can explain Obama's spending as some model of fiscal restraint or "blame it on Bush."
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 27, 2016 - 09:13pm PT
Lost such as you are.

No, the lost boys are the ones that deny the plain facts in order to blindly follow her wherever she goes.

She is NO progressive (as a few of the libs here have even admitted).

She IS totally bought and paid for by big banking and Wall Street; nobody seriously questions this fact except for a few yahoos on this site.

She tries to pretend that she's pro-abortion, pro-gay-marriage, pro-gay in general, and a leftie like Bernie. But she makes it up as she goes along.

She doesn't seriously believe a word that comes out of her own mouth, as she looks in her own mirror and sees a chameleon.

At least Bernie was a what-you-see-is-what-you-get, genuine socialist. Hillary is certainly not that.

Whatever she is, she is not what you think she is. And whatever she is today, she will not be that two years from now.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 27, 2016 - 09:15pm PT
Jesus, do a little homework on your own once in a while.

Prove exactly how Obama has spent LESS and expanded government LESS than did Bush.

From Factcheck.org: "Federal spending under Obama has grown faster than inflation, but far more slowly than it did under President Bush."

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/04/obamas-numbers-quarterly-update/

Explain how Obamacare was a step toward SMALLER, less-intrusive government.

I don't have to prove how any single program led to a smaller government to prove my statement--only that spending and government growth overall was smaller. Please read more carefully.

Show how his doubling of the debt was actually a step in the right direction.

Obama has reduced the federal deficit substantially. That is certainly a step in the right direction.

Curt
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 27, 2016 - 10:15pm PT
Ah, madbolter, 'common knowledge'. Yes, I should have known. What a bunch of BS. So now we each have to define whether something is 'common knowledge' or needs proof. What a nice system this is for you, who are unable to provide any proof at all for what you assert. Take a course in logic then read Catch 22 (have you? Do you actually read, like, books?). A book report is expected by Monday next week and will be graded on a curve.

Seriously, dude. WTF? Are you actually a real, serious adult? Do you have any critical thinking skills at all? Do you even know what that means?

Just yell louder, that seems to work sometimes.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 27, 2016 - 10:34pm PT
I got one for "Grindr" which is a homosexual hookup site.

Usually goes by what you are searching for NTTIAWWT
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:23pm PT
here you go mb1:





while maybe you are one of the ones who continues to believe that the best strategy in the face of the recession of the late oughts, that started before obama took office, would have been one of austerity, i think it's pretty clear at this point that if obama had chosen to not increase governmental spending, in part as a strategy to avoid a full on depression, the outcome would have been a far more traumatic one...

unlike the voodoo trickle down economics employed by bush and reagan, whereby they cut taxes, at the same time that they increased spending, it's pretty clear if one accepts basic math that obama and clinton, [except for obama's one time use of the strategy of quantitative easing and increasing governmental spending in the face of decreasing revenues due to the recession] have consistently produced far better short and long term results than their republican counterparts... [and i'm not saying that obama's initial increasing of governmental spending didn't lead to positive short and long term results: am just saying that that one is not as inarguable as the rest of the five presidents' records]

and while i don't know what your stance is on this, it is unfortunate that the mindless fundamentalists get re sold and continue to believe the idea that it is taxes that are too high, and that we just need to decrease taxes and everything will just be a-ok and alrighty...

"the golden stream will trickle down anyday now", they always continue to tell us...

we just need to keep the faith.

even though this has been thoroughly disproven over the last 35ish years...



and all that ever happens is that the lower and middle class continue to get pissed on:

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 27, 2016 - 11:31pm PT
1 2 3 4 5, this much is true on this thread.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:00am PT
MB1, you still arguing fiscal policy with people that don't know the difference between debt and income?

Heck, that's like arguing gun control with Lorenzo. No point in engaging a vacant opponent.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:01am PT
OH yes, the ONLY debate that matters is Hitlery and Drumph. Which is to say, there is no debate and very little difference between them where the rubber meets the backs of US citizens.

The only real debate is whether or not our country is going to continue down the path to insolvency, financial ruin and statism. Or are we going to shake off this silly notion that freedom is over rated and return to a place where the government doesn't create problems so that we can ask them to fix it.

That's the REAL debate. Hillary/Trump is something retards debate because they don't have the mental capacity to see past the next election.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:25am PT
SCOTUS

Decisions this week demonstrate the essential difference between H and T
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:26am PT
Agreed. F#@k Texas.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:39am PT
MB1, you still arguing fiscal policy with people that don't know the difference between debt and income?

True dat.

Only Nah makes consistently serious attempts at legitimate debate.

To that point, the charts....

None of them dispute my point, which is that Obama has outspent even the Bushes by a considerable margin.

We don't "climb out of the hole" by digging deeper into it.

Regarding the fiscal policy of "austerity" vs. big-spending, I definitely lean toward the "austerity" side (although defining that word really matters!), and I believe it could have been done without nearly the pain people like to worry about.

As just one example (and remember that Obama was quite prepared to shut down the government at least twice when confronted with an intractable congress), I would have submitted budgets to congress that cut military spending in half within four years. I would have submitted budgets that eliminated corporate subsidies (including for oil and tobacco, etc.). I would have refused to enforce (and would have vetoed any bill containing) the idea of "too big to fail" and bailouts. I would have INSISTED on budgets that paid down debt each year, with the amount of pay-down increasing year-by-year.

But Obama, just like Clinton after him, IS in the pockets of mega-corps and big-banking. And so he "played nice" with special interests instead of telling the American people: "Yes, if the government shuts down, then so be it. I will NOT sign any more bills with special interest riders or that do not increase our total surplus that will be used to pay down debt. The era of special interests, corporate welfare, and deficit budgets is OVER. My administration WILL close with us significantly less in debt than we were when I took office. And I will do this without raising middle-class taxes by one dime. Tell your congress-critters to get on board, or it's going to get ugly. I will not budge. Period."

But Obama didn't have the courage of his (supposed) convictions, there was no change, and Clinton will be just more of the same: SPEND our way "out of the hole."

It would be laughable if it weren't so tragic.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:56am PT
So, nothing bad happens when the government shuts down, I guess.

Promises. All politicians make them. Some keep more than others. They know it's just a wish list and they'll need political deal-making skills to get anything done. Obama did what he could with an obstructionist, tea party-controlled congress.

Clinton will be

Absolutes. She "will be"... It's already written for some. Like the e-mail "scandal", no matter the findings, she's a criminal either way.

Try using "could". Like she was in the Senate, she could be an effective public servant.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:06am PT
Report on the Benghazi attack due out today
Politics on both sides swirl around this whole sorry incident



Wait--according to Klimmer, Obama is supposed to testify.

I'm so confused.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:15am PT
Trump has promised to give away millions to charity. In the past 7 years he has donated less than $10,000.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-promised-millions-to-charity-we-found-less-than-10000-over-7-years/2016/06/28/cbab5d1a-37dd-11e6-8f7c-d4c723a2becb_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpcharity-718a-top%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Liar liar liar. Liar!

He recently gave a million to veterans for his much ballyhooed event only after the press figured out that four months later he had not given a cent.

Cosmic, Klimmer, pyro, others: you are being conned. Don't ever bitch about Hillary's supposed lies while supporting him.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:17am PT
So, nothing bad happens when the government shuts down, I guess.

Of course bad things happen when the government shuts down. That's why it's an effective tactic, IF the American people take their debts seriously. Worse things will happen if we don't address our debt.

Regarding calling Clinton a "public servant," no, sorry, I simply can't go there with you. Whatever else she is, public servant she is not.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:19am PT
DMT, you may well be correct. If so, the day is coming in which people will be frantic to blame somebody for the consequences of their own priorities.

Oh, and to add to my earlier list of budget items: The military budget will be cut in half over an eight year period.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:20am PT
Don't ever bitch about Hillary's supposed lies while supporting him.

Amen! Hold 'em both to the same standards of evaluation.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:20am PT
"public servant,"

more like ur going to be the servant...


dirtbag

climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:26am PT
Cute little movie still pyro.

Here's your con man tough guy--with balls!--picking on a disabled person. (This is not from a movie, btw.)


Yep, BALLS.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:49am PT
Chump is going to be tossed at the convention. He is tanking and out of money. His novelty side-show has run it's course and he is just another entitled dingbat now.

PS - BENGHAZI !!!!!!!!!!!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:54am PT
That day has always been coming.

The day I'm talking about will be more epic than any prior day.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:56am PT
House Benghazi Report Finds No New Evidence of Wrongdoing by Hillary Clinton

It is over finally, after years and 7 million dollars desperately spent trying to lower the electability of an opposing political politician, cleverly disguised as investigating a terrorist attack on our embassy.

so now, all the exciting lying is over and done, and they are left with....nothing

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/us/politics/hillary-clinton-benghazi.html?_r=0
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 09:10am PT
House Benghazi Report Finds No New Evidence of Wrongdoing by Hillary Clinton

Emphasizing the key word.

so now, all the exciting lying is over and done, and they are left with....nothing

"Nothing"?

Ahh, the spin zone.

Actually, what the article said was:

...it delivered a broad rebuke of government agencies like the Defense Department, the Central Intelligence Agency and the State Department — and the officials who led them — for failing to grasp the acute security risks in the Libyan city, and especially for maintaining outposts in Benghazi that they could not protect.

Note the mention of the State Department "and the officials who led them" (that's Hillary, in case you refuse to make that connection).

...also harshly criticized an internal State Department investigation that it said had allowed officials like Mrs. Clinton, then the secretary of state, to effectively choose who would investigate their actions.

Hmm... "choosing who would investigate [her] actions" seems to be the preferred MO of Mrs. Clinton.

...it issued stinging criticism of the overall delay in response and the lack of preparedness on the part of the government.

Yeah, when I read "lack of preparedness on the part of the government," particularly the State Department run by Mrs. Clinton, I immediately get "nothing" from that. Uh huh.

Of course, the radically-left NYT, not surprising, interprets the above to conclude: "But the lack of any crisp, hard-hitting allegation of professional misconduct or dereliction of duty, was certain to fuel further criticism of the length the investigation...."

Well, that's one interpretation, I suppose. Another is: Mrs. Clinton was the buck-stopper for the department most directly in charge of knowing the risks of her assets and the approaches necessary to provide them with needed protections. She was asleep at the wheel, declined to acknowledge the escalating risks, and ultimately had no good response to the tragedy. None of that is "nothing."

The fact that nothing "new" was uncovered does not equate to "nothing," except in the minds of those that refuse to hold her accountable.

She's no more fit to be president than His Hairness.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 09:19am PT
Don't get me wrong, its coming. Because its always coming. If repeatedly saying so gives you the desired emotional response, well please, continue :)

You've neatly reduced the whole thing to "nothing to see here," but that's amazingly blithe. The "it" I'm talking about is not always coming. This "it" is avoidable with decisive action now. And this "it" if it comes truly will put all previous "its" to shame. I'm talking about global economic collapse precipitated by the collapse of the dollar.

My "saying so" has nothing to do with making myself feel good. It has everything to do with saying that if we don't very quickly get some leadership that will make it his/her top priority to pull us back from the brink, then the moaning that is to come will make all possible "austerity" moaning seem like happy cheers by comparison.

And if/when that day comes, my point will not be "told you so." It will be: Blame the right entities for this result, so that your ensuing revolution will produce a correct, legitimate, and sustainable result.

If the causes can be predicted now, well in advance, then it pays to go on record about those causes, so that in the heat of the moment there's something less "heated" to refer back to. We have time to think this through right now and attempt to pull back from the catastrophe.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 28, 2016 - 09:26am PT
Zzzzz.

Did this Republican boondoggle find anything that the other 8 investions found? No.

There was only one purpose to Gowdy's circus: damage Hillary Clinton politically. Shameful waste of money and time.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 09:26am PT
Is it going to happen.

I don't share your fatalism. There are specific and very doable steps we could take now to pull back from that brink. Maybe future generations would leap over it, but there's no reason for that result in the foreseeable future.

Your argument is akin to: Death WILL happen; so each of us should just eat a bullet right this moment.

Even if global collapse were inevitable (which I deny), that doesn't mean that this generation must ensure that the event happens on its watch.

We have the power to unload the gun rather than put it into our mouth and pull the trigger.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 28, 2016 - 09:33am PT
Benghazi:

"A republican conspiracy in search of a conspiracy."
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 28, 2016 - 09:41am PT
Actually, what the article said was:

...it delivered a broad rebuke of government agencies like the Defense Department, the Central Intelligence Agency and the State Department — and the officials who led them — for failing to grasp the acute security risks in the Libyan city, and especially for maintaining outposts in Benghazi that they could not protect.

What else would you expect from a Republican report that Democrats on the committee were not even allowed to comment on? You can't possibly be serious.

Curt
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 28, 2016 - 09:43am PT
*The Olmec Civilization.
*The Aztec Empire.
*The Incan Empire.
*The Persian Empire.
*The Macedonian Empire.
*The Roman Empire.
*The Mongolian Empire.
*The Egyptian Empire.



Any questions?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 09:50am PT
Got it. We're doomed, fatalism is the only sane perspective, and the only sensible actions are: Get some while the getting is still good.

Okay, you've managed to actually change my perspective. See, it CAN happen here at the taco stand.

So, with my perspective changed, screw "charity" and "equality" and all of those other idealistic chimeras. I'm going straight at becoming 1% and will vote ANY way I think will help me on that path.

You can take this "equality" crap and shove it. I want MINE and don't care about ANYBODY or ANYTHING else. It's all futile anyway, so I'm going seek enjoying MINE (and as much of is as possible) before checking out. What happens to the rest of you, the nation, or the world is meaningless to me.

Nothing can be done to save anybody. So, all that's left is me, ME, MEEEEEEEEEE!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 09:52am PT
Federal spending under Obama has grown faster than inflation, but far more slowly than it did under President Bush.

You're "checking" the wrong "facts" in response to my statements.

I said two things:

1) Obama has outspent Bush.

2) Obama essentially doubled the debt during his administration.

Both of those are unassailable facts.

As is the fact that you CANNOT "dig out of the hole" by increasing the depth of the hole.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 10:30am PT
There was only one purpose to Gowdy's circus: damage Hillary Clinton politically

Yes. And that's not just left wing attempts at dismissing it, either. Last fall, Kevin McCarthy, #2 repub in the House, and others, basically said this.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 10:46am PT
Hey Klimmer,

He's full of sh#t. She didn't keep the gift, it was turned over to the government.

He's lying to you. But you unflinchingly lap up whatever jizz he sprays.

Damn you are so fooking gullible.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 28, 2016 - 10:50am PT
So, with my perspective changed, screw "charity" and "equality" and all of those other idealistic chimeras.

Actually, I'm not that fatalistic at all. It's going to happen, but that doesn't mean we become uncaring as#@&%es like many in the 1%. It's just that you're too fun to troll WOT.

Example, the Roman people, Egyptian people, Aztec people and so on, still exist. But they had to get over the idea that they were the most important people in the universe, like the Brits when their empire crumbled.

Unfortunately for the world we have the ability to burn the entire shithouse down on our way out the door...
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 28, 2016 - 10:52am PT
WOT competition
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 28, 2016 - 10:57am PT
Whoa!!
Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 11:01am PT
Excellent lies debunking Licker

Link?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 11:01am PT
Respond to each point Klimmer
Now
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 28, 2016 - 11:06am PT
Nice try, Locker, but a true wall of text effort has to come from your own head & fingers...cut & paste doesn't count.

Right, mb?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 11:19am PT

nowhere good enough, klimmer

every lie you personally have told, have posted on these pages has now been proven to be lies

"lying", personal morals, ethics is SO important in a political candidate, right klimmer?

and you support the biggest liar of them all, Donald Trump, yet you brush off his lies

and now when confronted with proof from the Republican report, nicely summarized by Locker, I am asking you to recant all the lies you told about Mrs Clinton

apologize klimmer, apologize and resolve to stop your own lying

unwilling because too bullheaded, then respond point by point to Locker's post, now
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 28, 2016 - 11:23am PT
Success here is measured in the Quantity of posts. The length or content has nothing to do with it.

So please step it up a bit, 15,000 is just around the corner.

We're all counting on you.

G_dspeed.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jun 28, 2016 - 11:31am PT
G_dspeed. That is funny as hell

L_rd help us.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 28, 2016 - 11:45am PT
Who's watching?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 11:45am PT
apologize klimmer, apologize and resolve to stop your own lying


Crickets...


He's too busy reading propaganda.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 11:53am PT
Wow locker, great post.

Wow Klimmer, can you actually read?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 28, 2016 - 11:56am PT
Ricky is watching and I'm watching

Ricky is watching porn, and you are as well?

Is this during a class?

Do I have to call the principal?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
Boy In the Bubble

It's gonna be a Landslide in November for Donald Trump.

this is an excellent example of how klimmer's brain works, total denial of the truth

when 100 of the world's finest math teachers prove to him that 2+2=4, he digs in deeper and refused to acknowledge that he is really "wrong"

as Simon and Garfunkel sang - A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest


Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 28, 2016 - 12:21pm PT
It's gonna be a Landslide in November for Donald Trump.

Preserved for posterity.

Curt
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 28, 2016 - 12:24pm PT
Think about it. Why do you all want to talk about Trump soooo much?

We're incredulous that anybody still believes the buffoon. We find it an interesting dysfunctional behavior.

Curt
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
Nice try, Locker, but a true wall of text effort has to come from your own head & fingers...cut & paste doesn't count.

Right, mb?

Oh, spot on!

Copy/paste is weak sauce.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jun 28, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
It's gonna be a Landslide in November for Donald Trump.

Klimmer, there's about as much a chance for that as you getting a scholarship to Trump University.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
Think about it. Why do you all want to talk about Trump soooo much?

Even the Democrat's response to the House Benghazi Report mentions Trump over a dozen times (Is that a non sequitur?).
He sure gets into a lot of people's heads.
No doubt he is further pleased with himself.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2016/images/06/27/report_of_the_benghazi_select_committee_democratic_members-honoring_cour....pdf
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 28, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
I think he's doing very well. He does ad lib a little. Best of both worlds, TelePrompTer made more real. He's doing very well. 

Oh, yes, very well, very, very well!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 01:10pm PT
Klimmer, I recall that not very long ago you were mocking Clinton/Obama for using a teleprompter and noting that Trump said real men didn't need one. Now Trump is using one and it's all very good.
I think he's doing very well. He does ad lib a little. Best of both worlds, TelePrompTer made more real. He's doing very well.

How do you explain this sudden reversal of prompter useage? Do you even recall your post about this? Looks like you can turn on a dime, just the sort of supporter Trump needs.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 28, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
Trump is silent on the recent SCOTUS abortion ruling. Is that G-d working in mysterious ways, eh Klimmer.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
What Would Yeshua Teleprompt?
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 28, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
What Would Yeshua Teleprompt?

KLIMMMMMEEEERRRR!! BLOW DONALD..ALD...ALD!
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jun 28, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
Gonna be like this all summer, Klimmer?

Maybe you have a summer school teaching gig? Maybe?

Susan
Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 02:00pm PT
klimmer

stop it

you have zero credibility

your Hillary hating little talking points have ALL been completely proven to be lies

I looked at what you posted and both the Benghazi report and Locker's summary
totally debunked every one of them

what is telling is that in the face of the strongest evidence you dig in and keep lying

Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 28, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
what is telling is that in the face of the strongest evidence you dig in and keep lying

He can't help it. God wants Klimmer to lie.

Curt
dirtbag

climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 02:17pm PT
Hey, he's on a mission from G-d, like Jake and Elwood.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 28, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
But you really SHOULD consider reading my post...

you might want to erase that post it'll make Hillary look more stupid


she was awake after it was learned that Stevens had died in the attack on the diplomatic facility in Benghazi.

ohh! I'd be awake to if I was aware that Stevens had been killed on my watch..


Bernie is holding for the race because he knows she is getting the prison slap..


Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 02:34pm PT
Words from god's chosen one:

I've always said, if you run for president, you shouldn't be allowed to use teleprompters,” Trump said in October. "Because you don't even know if the guy is smart."

He used the teleprompter attack on his primary opponents in the opening months of the campaign.

"These other guys, they're going around, they make a speech in front of 21 people. Nobody cares, they read the same speech…They have teleprompters,” Trump said at a campaign rally in August 2015. "I say we should outlaw teleprompters … for anybody running for president.”

What happened to your man Klimmer? Did he lie?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
Good posts, locker.

Dude doesn't care about facts.

He's a total bible thumper, just now he's devoted his energies to the orange haired one instead of Yeshua.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
Zzzzzz...

dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 28, 2016 - 03:25pm PT
work the balls, Klimmer
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 28, 2016 - 03:34pm PT
Analysts of the new Benghazi report by investigative journalist Michael Isikoff.

First, is there a smoking gun when it comes to then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the attack at the American diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, on Sept. 11, 2012, that killed four Americans, including Ambassador Christopher Stevens? Isikoff told Sy: “There’s no smoking gun here. There’s no fundamental revelation that’s going to alter our understanding of what took place.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/the-benghazi-report-5-things-to-know-201418168.html

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 03:45pm PT

Klimmer is flat out incapable of admitting that he lied, constantly, about Hillary Clinton

point by point, carefully and factually supported, klimmer's lies have been proven wrong

yet he soldiers on, repeating the lies over and over with each post

at this point all he's got is bible class hatred for second class treatment of women as Clinton

do you teach your students that it is weak to never admit they are proven wrong, klimmer?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 28, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
And, another analysis of the same report.

House Republicans Spent Millions Of Dollars On Benghazi Committee To Exonerate Clinton

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/benghazi-report-clinton_us_57727ed2e4b017b379f74880

Facts are deeply disturbing to Klimmer--that's why he ignores them.

Curt
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 04:32pm PT
"He didn't use TelePrompTers for a long time. You know this. But to stay more focused he is now when giving speeches."..

I'll sure glad he doesn't use them when NOT giving speeches. So, Klimmer, what was so wrong when others did this? I remember a whole string of posts from you about teleprompters and how Trump was such a hero not to use the prompter.

Did you ever read Orwell's '1984' where history is changed by simply rewriting it?

The most exaggerated and dramatic instance of rewriting the past occurs during Hate Week: in the midst of a speech, the Great Enemy is changed from Eurasia to Eastasia, without explanation—and everybody instantly accepts the new truth.

Credit to pensnest.co.uk.

You, Klimmer, are one of them.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 04:38pm PT

run away now little chicken

run and hide from your own lies

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 28, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
Thanks, Curt. 2-year GOP-led probe exonerates her. What a waste of $7 million dollars.

WASHINGTON — After spending more than two years and $7 million, the House Select Committee on Benghazi released a report Tuesday that found — like eight investigations before it — no evidence of wrongdoing by then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton or other members of the Obama administration.

The House voted to create the committee after Republicans were frustrated that even their own GOP-led committees failed to find wrongdoing in the events surrounding the 2012 attacks in Benghazi, Libya, that killed four Americans, including Ambassador Chris Stevens.

But the new report also fails to find evidence of wrongdoing, revealing as all previous reports did that the administration’s response to the terror attacks was flawed, but not malicious or derelict.

Democrats have repeatedly accused the GOP of using the committee as a partisan crusade aimed at hurting Hillary Clinton in the presidential election and firing up the GOP base.

It failed to achieve that goal as well, if early comments from conservatives are any indication.

“While the report from the Select Committee on Benghazi shines some light on widespread incompetence reaching the highest levels of government, I find it incomprehensible and insulting that this Committee spent two years and $7 million in taxpayer dollars to release an 800-page report with no firm findings or conclusions,” said David Bozell, who heads the group ForAmerica.

“Congressional Republicans, by lacking the courage to bring those responsible to justice, have wasted everyone’s time and money, plain and simple,” Bozell said. “Hillary Clinton is sure to take a victory lap today due to the fecklessness of the Majority on this committee.”

Still, even Gowdy declined to say that the two Americans who died later in the attacks — Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods, members of that six-man team — would have lived if the administration showed better coordination.

“I’m not going to make a reckless allegation that [they] could have been saved,” Gowdy said.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 28, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
Hey Arkster, what about the lies told to the 4,500 service men and women killed in Iraq for sh#t that didn't exist? Where's the republican report on that? You and surf's up pyro should spend time building a saucer to the moon.It would be more productive than defending orange drumpf and his empty-suit bullsh#t.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 04:56pm PT
I hate to be a wall of words poster, but here's a list of fatal attacks on US Embassies during Shrub's term.......... Sure didn't see much investigatin' goin' on. It's astounding how hard and long (sorry) the Republicans have been trying to get Clinton. I suspect they really hate her.

Care to read this Klimmer?

A List of Deadly Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Diplomatic Targets Under President George W. Bush, 2001-2009

Here is a chronology of the deadly terrorist attacks on United States embassies, consulates and traveling U.S. personnel during the presidency of George W. Bush. The list below does not include foiled attacks or those that did not result in fatalities (other than those of the attackers). The descriptions for each incident are excerpted from the University of Maryland's Global Terrorism Database.

Dec. 15, 2001: Unidentified assailants gunned down a Nepalese security guard of the U.S. Embassy in Kathmandu, Nepal.

Jan. 22, 2002: Two assailants attacked the American Center in Calcutta, India. Five policemen died, and 15 others were injured in the attack.

March 20, 2002: A car bomb exploded near the U.S. Embassy in Lima, Peru, killing nine people and injuring 32. The U.S. State Department reported no American casualties, injuries, or damage.

June 14, 2002: A suicide bombing in front of the U.S. Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, left 12 dead and 51 injured.

Nov. 9, 2002: The security supervisor for the U.S. embassy in Nepal was shot dead at his house in Kathmandu. Maoist rebels claimed responsibility for the incident.

May 12, 2003: In a series of attacks, suicide bombers blew themselves up in a truck loaded with explosives in a complex that housed staff working for U.S. defense firm Vinnell in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. (The contractors worked out of the U.S. embassy.) At least eight Americans were killed in the incident. Al-Qaida was suspected responsible for the incident. This was one of three attacks, involving at least nine suicide bombers and suspected to have involved 19 perpetrators overall.

July 30, 2004: Two people, including a suicide bomber, were killed and one person was injured as a suicide bomber set off an explosion at the U.S. Embassy in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. The Israeli Embassy and the Uzbekistan Prosecutor General’s Office in Tashkent were also attacked in related incidents.

Oct. 24, 2004: Edward Seitz, the assistant regional security officer at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, Iraq, died in a mortar or possible rocket attack at Camp Victory near the Baghdad airport. An American soldier was also injured. He was believed to be the first U.S. diplomat killed following the March 2003 U.S.-led invasion.

Nov 25, 2004: Jim Mollen, the U.S. Embassy’s senior consultant to the Iraqi Ministers of Education and Higher Education, was killed just outside the Green Zone in Baghdad.

Dec. 7, 2004: Gunmen belonging to al-Qaida in the Arabian Penninsula stormed the U.S. Consulate in Jedda, Saudi Arabia, triggering a bloody four-hour siege that left nine dead. One American was slightly injured in the assault.

Jan. 29, 2005: Unknown attackers fired either a rocket or a mortar round at the U.S. Embassy compound in Baghdad. The strike killed two U.S. citizens and left four others injured.

Sept. 7, 2005: Four American contractors employed with a private security firm supporting the regional U.S. embassy office in Basra, Iraq, were killed when a roadside bomb exploded near their convoy. Three of the contractors died instantly, and the fourth died in a military hospital after the bombing.

March 2, 2006: An unidentified driver detonated a car bomb while driving past the U.S. Consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing a himself, a U.S. Consulate worker and at least three others.

Sept. 12, 2006: Islamic militants attacked the U.S. embassy in Damascus, Syria, with hand grenades, rifles, and a vehicle rigged with explosives. One guard and the four attackers died.

July 8, 2007: Two Iraqi U.S. Embassy workers were killed when the wife went to deliver a ransom for her husband who had been kidnapped in Baghdad. One of the couple's bodyguards was killed in the failed ransoming.

Jan. 14, 2008: A bomb hidden on a north Beirut highway hit a U.S. Embassy vehicle, killing at least three Lebanese bystanders. The car's Lebanese driver and an American at a nearby school were wounded.

March 18, 2008: Al-Qaida's wing in Yemen, Jund Al-Yemen Brigades, fired between three and five mortar rounds toward the U.S. embassy, but instead they hit a girls’ school nearby, killing a guard and a schoolgirl and injuring 19 others in Sanaa, Yemen.

July 9, 2008: Four unknown gunmen killed three Turkish police at the U.S. consulate in Istanbul, Turkey.

Sept. 17, 2008: Suspected al-Qaida militants disguised as security forces detonated vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices, fired rocket propelled grenades, rockets and firearms on the U.S. Embassy in Sanaa, Yemen. A suicide bomber also blew himself up at the embassy. Six Yemeni police, four civilians (including an American civilian), and six attackers were killed while six others were wounded in the attack.

Nov. 27, 2008: A Taliban suicide car bomber targeted the U.S. Embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan, killing four civilians in addition to the suicide bomber and wounding 18 others. The embassy was hosting a Thanksgiving Day event as Americans and other foreigners were arriving at the venue at the time of the attack.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
And while we're on the subject, what about these missing emails? Sure, it was only 22 million emails, but what the hell..........that's only a few more than the Clinton stuff.

From Wikipedia:

The Bush White House email controversy surfaced in 2007 during the controversy involving the dismissal of eight U.S. attorneys. Congressional requests for administration documents while investigating the dismissals of the U.S. attorneys required the Bush administration to reveal that not all internal White House emails were available. Conducting governmental business in this manner is a possible violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978, and the Hatch Act.[1] Over 5 million emails may have been lost.[2][3] Greg Palast claims to have come up with 500 of the Karl Rove emails, leading to damaging allegations.[4] In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been lost.[5]

The administration officials had been using a private Internet domain, called gwb43.com, owned by and hosted on an email server run by the Republican National Committee,[6] for various communications of unknown content or purpose. The domain name is an abbreviation for "George W. Bush, 43rd" President of the United States. The server came public when it was discovered that J. Scott Jennings, the White House's deputy director of political affairs, was using a gwb43.com email address to discuss the firing of the U.S. attorney for Arkansas.[7] Communications by federal employees were also found on georgewbush.com (registered to "Bush-Cheney '04, Inc."[8]) and rnchq.org (registered to "Republican National Committee"[9]), but, unlike these two servers, gwb43.com has no Web server connected to it — it is used only for email.[10]

The "gwb43.com" domain name was publicized by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), who sent a letter to Oversight and Government Reform Committee committee chairman Henry A. Waxman requesting an investigation.[11] Waxman sent a formal warning to the RNC, advising them to retain copies of all emails sent by White House employees. According to Waxman, "in some instances, White House officials were using nongovernmental accounts specifically to avoid creating a record of the communications."[12] The Republican National Committee claims to have erased the emails, supposedly making them unavailable for Congressional investigators.[13]
Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
Can this guy be any more childish?

I went to an Ivy League school.  I’m very highly educated.  I know words.  I have the best words,

D Trump
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
Does this come close? Pretty presidential and all......

“You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young, and beautiful, piece of ass.”
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
And this.......

“The beauty of me is that I’m very rich.”
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
And this.......

“My fingers are long and beautiful, as, it has been well documented, are various other parts of my body.”
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:19pm PT
And there are real people who want this guy to be president?

Damn,
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
cons are impressed with money and ass. more money=better than.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:33pm PT
Trump's mental defect, the one that causes him to delusionally revise history in spite of irrefutable evidence to the contrary, is contagious and has now spread to more of his campaign staff and spokespeople.




Donald Trump campaign spokeswoman Katrina Pierson says Trump's proposal to bar Muslims from entering the US applies only to Muslim immigrants, not all Muslims.


Trump's original statement, which is still on his campaign website, reads:

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on."


http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Trump-spokeswoman-Muslim-ban-was-directed-only-8328487.php





How stupid is this spokeswoman Katrina Pierson? Trump's statement was recorded by numerous journalists, it is available on YouTube, it is available on many news outlet websites, and it is posted to Trump's own campaign website.



Trump and his staff suffer from Stupidity Inversion Syndrome.

They're so stupid, they think they're smarter than everybody else.

Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
I went to an Ivy League school. I’m very highly educated. I know words. I have the best words,
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
"Trump and his staff suffer from Stupidity Inversion Syndrome.

They're so stupid, they think they're smarter than everybody else."


No they just know how stupid their base is.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
Wild goose chase finally exposed and put to rest

And for their next trick, the republican congress will investigate the fourty-four hundred American deaths in Iraq.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
You guys have all come over to the WOT dark side.

Welcome!
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:49pm PT

Trump and his staff suffer from Stupidity Inversion Syndrome.


klimmer is terminal
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:54pm PT
Klimmer, you should have your own slogan, Make America Grape Again, 'cause your surely drinking the koolaid.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
IF I were a voting Republican I would be horrified to learn than Trump did not spend one dime in any of the Electoral College rich swing states in May, while Clinton spent 20 million

Trump's fund raising is pathetic, no one is giving his campaign money

why would you when he is already in June down 12% in the polls, why throw your money away

and the real beauty is that it is highly likely to happen again in 2020

the shockingly ignorant Republican base voter will select someone just like they are

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 28, 2016 - 05:58pm PT
Here's a photo of Dreamboat, appropriately blending into a background of compacted garbage.



Trump and his campaign team are totally clueless. They've got him standing in front of a mountain of rubbish, promising to return the U.S. steel industry to its pre-1970's heyday.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:04pm PT
the shockingly ignorant Republican base voter will select someone just like they are

It's even worse than that. His supporters are like Klimmer. He's toast.

Curt
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:08pm PT
Bringing back all the jobs is one way to Make America Great Again.

God tells me that's not going to happen.

Curt
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
Yo, it's Aluminum about to be recycled.



No, it is not aluminum.

It is mostly compacted plastic rubbish, like water bottles. The other bales are not aluminum, either.



Just because Trump said he would create thousands of jobs in the iron and steel industries doesn't mean said anything about aluminum.

And even if he did speak of aluminum, that doesn't cause his backdrop of compacted trash backdrop to magically convert from plastic to aluminum.



Why didn't you just say that Trump's backdrop was shiny new steel ingots, hot off the rolling mill?




S.I.S can be a debilitating condition.



Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:16pm PT
APOLOGIZE for YOUR LIES, klimmer

over and over and over YOU LIED about Benghazi and Hillary Clinton

today every single LIE was proven a LIE

now grow up, be a man, and admit you LIED to us all here for months
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:18pm PT

Maybe G-d has called Donald Trump because he has such brave qualities and he tells the truth

Yeah, but maybe not.......another couple of Trump quotes:

I have a great relationship with the blacks. I’ve always had a great relationship with the blacks.

Laziness is a trait in blacks.

Just curious Klimmer, but how do you 'know' with certain positivistity (yeah, I made the word up) all this stuff about Trump? Does he and/or god communicate with you with, like, visions and sh#t, or are there youtube videos available?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:19pm PT
They stay quite.

Yep, I believe that.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:22pm PT
There are far more Donald Trump supporters than you can imagine. They stay quite.

Quite stupid.

Curt
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
agitation for change based on the individual being prime is some what troubling to all of your other team mates

Coming from a Canadian (the heartland of communitarianism), that's not a surprising comment. But America was founded on precisely the primacy of the individual rather than the community. That's the core principle of our founding is troubling to you troubles me not a whit.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
I think Klimmer is right, I blew up a couple of pictures and it looks like crushed aluminum (or, as we Kiwis say. aluminium) cans.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
"spend some money on getting them anger management". I don't think so Klimmer.

Once the antichrist is vanquished and the second coming is inaugerated, round up all these useful idiots who blather endlessly here and send up to Jimmie in Vancouver.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:48pm PT
Now you guys are arguing about beer cans? What's next, toilet paper?
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:54pm PT
how exactly would drumpf regenerate the steel industry in this country? how much would that cost? as much as 2 unwinnable wars?
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jun 28, 2016 - 06:56pm PT
klimmer was right?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyDemocrats/videos/1171888069570912/

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
don't care about the US economy, klimmer?


“Under Trump’s trade plans, we would see higher prices, fewer jobs and a weaker economy,” the U.S. Chamber of Commerce tweeted from its official account, starting a storm of tweets torching Trump during his speech, each of which linked to a page on the organization's official website with this headline: “Trump’s Trade Policies Would Make America Recession-Bound Again.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/trump-jobs-plan-224892#ixzz4CvmmJ5iT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
What say you Klimmer? Do try and read it.

Real estate mogul Trump sent the emails to Scottish MPs last week, prompting Glasgow parliamentarian Natalie McGarry to question whether his campaign bought emailing lists, calling it “bizarre for a grassroots campaign.”

The Scotsman reports the donation requests went largely ignored — until McGarry fired off her response, which came after a follow-up plea from Trump’s son.

“Quite why you think it appropriate to write emails to UK parliamentarians with a begging bowl for your father’s repugnant campaign is completely beyond me,” she responded. “Given his rhetoric on migrants, refugees and immigration, it seems quite extraordinary that he would be asking foreign nationals for money; especially people who view his dangerous divisiveness with horror.”

McGarry then said American elections are for the American people to decide — but she hoped voters would reject him come November.

“The thought of his reactionary type of politics and apparent ignorance of world affairs having access to a seat at the world table is both surreal, and terrifying,” she wrote. “The above is a long way to say No, and do not contact me again.”

Further, it is illegal for Trump to both solicit and take campaign contributions from foreign nations.

“The Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) prohibits any foreign national from contributing, donating or spending funds in connection with any federal, state, or local election in the United States, either directly or indirectly. It is also unlawful to help foreign nationals violate that ban or to solicit, receive or accept contributions or donations from them. Persons who knowingly and willfully engage in these activities may be subject to fines and/or imprisonment.”
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
Donald has screwed up in many ways all his life. He admits it. That is honest and refreshing.

Somehow this sparked an image of a little kid smearing dog crap all over the walls of his house while his parents stand watching, smiling proudly. When asked by a visitor why they don't make him clean it up, they reply with the quote above.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
Facts don’t necessarily have the power to change our minds.

In fact, quite the opposite. In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds.

In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:42pm PT
Ah, is that what they're calling felony stupid these days?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
I only pray to God, and Allah, which is one and the same

so all these other weird named G-ds are false Gods in my mind
Golden Calves, ready for worship by Satan's minions
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 28, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
weird named god

Wait. Give Klimmer a break on that point.

God is named "G-d". That's the "personal, proper name," and what's so weird about changing "God" to "G-d" anyway?

;-)
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
So Klimmer, where exactly do we stand in regards to the Massive Ark on the Moon? I think Klimmer has given that up for the new prize, Trump. It's closer.

Klimmer, inquiring minds want to know, is the Ark still there? Is Trump somehow, thorough the Nephlim or whatever, associated with this Ark? Will real Aliens support Trump, although he has promised to kick them all out? Exactly what does Trump feel about real aliens, of the ET type? Are they sending their criminal here? Will he build a wall (well, probably some sort of impenetrable shield type of thing if I know my science fiction) to keep them out?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
Yeah, posting my own reply, but still....

Thanks Craig, I love Tom Tomorrow. But sitting here after a long day in the winery, my wife out of town, sort of having a glass of wine and looking at this quickly devolving thread and thinking.......yes, that's the right term..devolving. But to what? Then it became clear....devolving into the 'Massive Ark on the Moon' thread. And it's true. One individual seems to be driving this thing, although I think most of us are just disgusted with the very idea of Trump as president. It's .....Klimmer.

Seriously, Klimmer, you've done it again. We are all sucked in by disbelief. You, sir, are a master. Probably the greatest troll on ST or, for that matter, anywhere. Do you really exist? Yeah, I know you do and you're a physics teacher in a California high school, but still, good job; really GOOD JOB.

I know that when Trump loses his ass in November you will have excuses and reasons to do with god and etc. etc. but still..... good job.

It's amazing how much air you have sucked out of the world, considering what an unmitigated disaster Trump would be as president. Your persistence and acceptance of the constant position changes is astounding. Your mind is like a black hole, sucking information out of the universe and turning it into inaccessible stuff that can never be seen again. There is an event horizon, and it is you.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 28, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
Watchout! Klimmer or Trump might start charging rent for all the real estate they clearly own in your heads.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 28, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
hartford, ct

Hmmm. The inquiring Marco is curious.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 28, 2016 - 10:15pm PT

Keep it real yo!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 29, 2016 - 05:20am PT
Blame the republican congress for cutting aid to the embassy you ill-formed POS pyro.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/19/1147325/-House-GOP-Paul-Ryan-Cut-400M-from-Embassy-Safety-Funding

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 29, 2016 - 06:50am PT
Maybe running tons of weapons(i.e. real "assault weapons") into other countries in order to assassinate their leaders isn't such a good idea.

Stuff the appointed next president, Hillary, fully supports.

How about the thousands of Libyans killed and maimed because of it? Benghazi was but a pimple in the overall situation there.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 29, 2016 - 06:53am PT
Is Pyro still here? What a loathsome human being.

The day the House Benghazi Committee released its report on the two-year-long investigation into the 2012 terror attacks that left Ambassador Chris Stevens and three others Americans dead, Stevens' sister said she doesn't blame Hillary Clinton.

Dr. Anne Stevens said in an interview with The New Yorker, published online Tuesday, that then-Secretary of State Clinton was "balancing security efforts at embassies and missions around the world."

"I do not blame Hillary Clinton or Leon Panetta," Stevens said when asked who she faults for her brother's death in Benghazi.

She also said in hindsight, it's clear the U.S. diplomatic compound in Libya was not "sufficiently protected" by the State Department and Defense Department.

"The Benghazi Mission was understaffed. We know that now," Stevens said. "But, again, Chris knew that. It wasn’t a secret to him. He decided to take the risk to go there. It is not something they did to him. It is something he took on himself."

Stevens, the chief of pediatric rheumatology at Seattle Children’s Hospital, also told the magazine Clinton has taken "full responsibility" for the tragedy and she doesn't "see any usefulness in continuing to criticize [Clinton]. It is very unjust."

Read the full interview over at The New Yorker.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 08:02am PT
Klimmer, f*#k off.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 08:03am PT
Keep it real yo!

Agreed:


pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 29, 2016 - 08:10am PT
Pyro that is disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself for posting it

that gross picture is to remind the supertopo forum of how American diplomacy has become.. for some reason Obama admin seem to think that diplomacy should be done via the internet vs actually having a person on the ground representing the embassy..
this entire story is not about pinning the Hillary it's about how we perform diplomacy inside another country for now and in the future..
this is what worries me the most is that we had to have some other country come in and save the stevens remains..
I do know for a fact that Obama wants our military lean.. for whatever it's worth it sure made us look stupid..
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 29, 2016 - 08:13am PT
Pyro, and Klimmer, the two biggest dumbasses on ST
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/chris-stevens-hillary-clinton-benghazi-224928?cmpid=sf


I do know for a fact that Obama wants our military lean..

So what
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 29, 2016 - 08:17am PT
At least Pyro's girlfriend knows how to write words correctly. I'll give her that. Maybe home schooling is in your future?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 08:25am PT
Wel gee Klimmer, you are a champion lie peddler.

Posters have pointed out over and over again how these ridiculous claims are lies, yet you repeat them ceaselessly.

So yeah...f*#k off.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 29, 2016 - 08:49am PT
klimmer would lick Trump's rim milk, a substance I discovered by Loosely spelling his name backwards
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 29, 2016 - 08:54am PT
2. Marriage and Family in decline

Oh my God!
I didn't know that marriage and family were in decline

what should we do?
bring back prayer in school, make divorce illegal, make wife beating legal?

what Klimmer?, what are we going a do??
The whole place is falling apart, and Obama and Hillary are 100% to blame for it ALLLL, right?

How do you expect us to take you seriously?
How can Obama make marriage and family decline, if anything it's the damn Republicans that f*#ked over this economy that set off all these declines of yours, you have no idea of what politics are all about.

You Sir, are now on my list, I will never respect a word you say.
1 of 6
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 29, 2016 - 09:16am PT
We have quite a different outlook on the LGBT people and what morality means
I live by a strict sense of morality and ethical responsibility

F*#k the bible's stone age morality laws.
They have obstructed the growth of the human spirit of way too long

We have evolved, and I won't go back to stupid and bigoted for any reason.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 29, 2016 - 09:20am PT
Forget your 'moral law', Klimmer.

Legal inclusion of groups that have been persecuted is a step in the right direction. Love begets hate, and your brand of hate is the worst.

Our world is moving in the right direction regarding LGBTQ rights and acceptance. Our president has helped, not hindered this.

The world is a better place when people can feel free to be who they are, who they were born as.

If your religion contradicts this, then I guess you've chosen wrong. Sorry about your luck, bro.

Maybe in the next life, right?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 29, 2016 - 09:31am PT
When did you choose to become hetero?

The same time a LBGT choose their sexual identity

It wasn't a choice, the loving God made them that way,
are they supposed to live a LIE?
and reject their sexuality?
Why?

or maybe God accepts them as he created them, and it's just the hate mongers that took over the religions that wrote the hate into the laws
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 29, 2016 - 09:32am PT
A Hillary Admin will be a 3rd administration of Obama.

Thank g_d.

G_d bless the gay community.

In case you didn't notice klimmer g_d has always left marriage in a f7cked up state. That's why divorce and whores are addressed in your sacred book of fables. So don't try and lay the decline of marriage on Obama. What a crock of sh#t.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 29, 2016 - 09:43am PT
Yes, Obama has helped to destroy the G-d ordained institution of Marriage and the Family.

Wait a minute buddy. It was Obama himself who signed the marriage certificate that created the wonderful family of Locker, Me, and Dolly the Sheep! I will forever remember his glorious closing of the ceremony when he intoned the heartwarming words "I now declare you husband and husband and Lambie-pie."

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 29, 2016 - 09:53am PT
LGBTQ?

Q? Or maybe I don't want to know.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 29, 2016 - 09:53am PT
When competent and godly leaders rule, they set a tone for the society as they conduct affairs according to God's standards. The result will not be utopia but rather a general happiness, prosperity and stability in the land.

So sayeth the leaders of ISIS.....
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:00am PT
His official White House website touts efforts to stop counseling young people struggling with same-sex attraction and transgenderism as "protecting America's youth."
For this I mourn."

You're not alone Klimmer. "Conversion Therapy" is where it's at, right?

Feeling a bit queer? Let G-d help you!

Here's a news story from the front lines...

http://www.theonion.com/article/church-group-offers-homosexual-new-life-in-closet-470
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:01am PT
Q? Or maybe I don't want to know.

Queer.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:12am PT
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-2016-election-is-already-decided-history-says-hillary-clinton-wins/2016/06/28/8c6e682e-3d49-11e6-80bc-d06711fd2125_story.html

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:15am PT
pyro lied

I do know for a fact that Obama wants our military lean.. for whatever it's worth it sure made us look stupid..

liar, prove it

prove that PRESIDENT Obama did not sign into law every INCREASE in Pentagon spending that congress passed, continually growing every year he has been in office

FACT: it was your REPUBLICANS who CUT by 400 million dollars the security money used to protect our embassies

here you go \

-http://m.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/19/1147325/-House-GOP-Paul-Ryan-Cut-400M-from-Embassy-Safety-Funding
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:21am PT
On to more substantive reasons to fear a Trump presidency: His seven-point program that will allegedly return U.S. jobs really is a two point disaster:

1. Start a currency war with China; and

2. Start a trade war with the world.

I can think of no more effective prescription to start a depression. His proposals show me that he, and possibly those who advise him, have no clue about what's wrong with the current U.S. economy. Despite the protectionist and economic reactionaries' (who often call themselves "progressive) claims, the empirical evidence shows that jobs and real wages increased, not decreased, after NAFTA. International trade does adversely affect certain industries, of course, but its overall effect on the U.S. economy, and on U.S. jobs in particular, is positive.

https://www.usitc.gov/publications/332/ec201406a.pdf

Moreover, employment and wage growth post-NAFTA have been higher in the U.S. than in Mexico. Ross Perot's "giant sucking sound" is merely a giant dud.

In addition, he fails to recognize the real damper on U.S. economic growth post-2006, namely the vastly increased cost of regulations and legislation (Dood-Frank and ACA, for example) since 2007. Just lowering taxes, without more, won't stimulate this economy any more than raising spending, without more, will do so. He simply fails to understand what's going on - or else he cannot understand what advisors who do know are telling him. Either way, his election would signal an economic bloodbath.

To me, the best historical analogy from U.S. history is the Cleveland - Blaine election. Even Thomas Nast, a normally steadfast Republican, found Blaine too heavy a load to carry. Trump's persona, his unethical business practices, his jingoism and racism, and, now, his economic proposals pile on way more than this camel's back can carry.

John
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:30am PT
pasely

"paisley", Mr. Teacher

Susan
dirtbag

climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:30am PT
Thank you, John, for adding substance.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:39am PT
LGBT... always thought there was a clue in that acronym...Ligbut
Norton

Social climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:50am PT
Washington (CNN)Hillary Clinton leads Donald Trump across the board in a new poll of battleground states.


According to Ballotpedia's battleground poll, Clinton leads Trump:

51% to 37% in Florida
45% to 41% in Iowa
50% to 33% in Michigan
48% to 38% in North Carolina
46% to 37% in Ohio
49% to 35% in Pennsylvania
45% to 38% in Virginia
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:51am PT
Klimmer quoting Vallely is humorous, not quite ark on da moon crazy, but a contender

In 2010, Vallely was one of three retired general officers who expressed support for US Army Lieutenant Colonel Terrance Lee Lakin in his refusal to deploy to Afghanistan based on Lakin's claim that President Barack Obama had no legitimacy as commander in chief. In an interview, Vallely stated "I think many in the military – and many out of the military – question the natural-birth status of Barack Obama."[13] Following Vallely's announcement, Army Major General (retired) Jerry Curry and Air Force Lieutenant General (retired) Thomas G. McInerney also expressed public support for Lakin.[13][14] When Lakin refused the orders to deploy, the military initiated a court-martial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. On September 2, 2010, the presiding judge of the court-martial ruled that Obama's status as a natural-born citizen is irrelevant in the court-martial case against Lakin, as Obama's eligibility is outside the jurisdiction of the military and falls within the jurisdiction of the United States Congress instead.[15] Lakin was convicted on a charge of missing movement,[16] sentenced to six months confinement and dismissed from the Army.[17]
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:55am PT
I think Trump has absolutely zero intention of actually taking the actions he is spouting(renegotiate trade deals, "bring back" manufacturing jobs). He just knows that those talking points rile up a certain subset of people, and those empty promises give them some hope. In response, they will cast their vote in his direction. I am sure he promised "great things" to all the contractors he has shafted over the years - why would anything be different?

What doesn't get said, about eh "bring back jobs" campaign, is the reality - any manufacturing jobs created would be a near minimum wage level, and even STILL the products could not compete against similar imported goods.

When asked why people shop at Walmart, instead of buying from smaller independent stores, the answer is almost always "Because it costs less at Walmart." These people crying for DT to "bwing back deir jawbs" wouldn't even support the hardware stores in their own town when the Great Importer opened for business.

Who do they think is going to BUY goods that cost twice as much as ones that can be imported?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:55am PT
President Obama's aggressive advocacy of the LGBTQ agenda has brought devastation to the traditional family.

aren't you the one who is divorced?
Norton

Social climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:58am PT
Klimmr you moron

your web site link is a known biased promoter of unsubstantiated "opinions"

you have been 100% defeated in your lies about Hillary Clinton yesterday

and now, desperate to be credible, you find some guy posting an opinion in his basement so that you now put forward the already debunked position that the President of United States as "weakened" our national security

another lie, we are spending more every year on defense of his administration

you know what it really is don't you klimmer, you are both a racist and woman hater

you voted republican in 2008 because in spite of being in the midst of the horrible Republican Recession you could never bring yourself to vote for a black man

same thing now, because you cannot defend your support of trump, you try real hard
to pass on lies you naively believe about Clinton when the truth is your bible tells you that women should be considered not equal and inferior to men
dirtbag

climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 10:58am PT


aren't you the one who is divorced?

The queers ruined his marriage. They picketed his house and the funerals of loved ones.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 29, 2016 - 11:01am PT
Klimmer's divorce was Obama's fault, didn't you know that?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 29, 2016 - 11:10am PT
This just in:

A Trump business (again) committed fraud, larceny and theft of intellectual property.



In addition to his widely vilified Trump University, there was a similar real estate seminar con-game called The Trump Institute.

It also falsely promised gullible buyers that they would receive Donald Trump's personal real estate secrets, and that his hand-picked "experts" would teach buyers how to earn large sums of money in the real estate business. None of that was true, and much of the Institute's so-called Trump wisdom was actually plagarized from a decade-old, obscure real estate manual.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/30/us/politics/donald-trump-institute-plagiarism.html



Trump should recruit Kevin Trudeau to be his Surgeon General.

dirtbag

climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 11:15am PT
It's not surprising, Tom. He's been a charlatan all along.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 29, 2016 - 11:20am PT
What doesn't get said, about eh "bring back jobs" campaign, is the reality - any manufacturing jobs created would be a near minimum wage level, and even STILL the products could not compete against similar imported goods.

I would modify that. We do still have some good manufacturing jobs in the U.S., for example in the aircraft, heavy machinery and automotive industries (yes, the new ones are non-union, but they're hardly minimum wage). Most new U.S. manufacturing jobs tend to be in industries that require a well-trained workforce with strong infrastructure support. Remember, the relevant number for labor advantage is not the wage rate, it's the unit labor cost. In many industries, low wage workers in impoverished countries cannot compete because the lack of support and infrastructure causes their low wage advantage to get swampted by their inability to produce as many goods in the same amount of time as workers in areas with more trianed support.

U.S. workers have a tremendous advantage in unit labor costs in many industries for that reason. Where they lack those advantages tend to be in either mature industries where the cost of transporting the product is relatively modest (think textiles and much of consumer electronics) or with products whose production requires a very great deal of unskilled labor but not that much infrastructure support.

The tough decision for a labor economist is to determine whether a loss in employment at a particular place and time represents cyclical fluctualtion, and is therefore short-term, or whether it represents a shift in comparative labor advantage, and therefore is long-term. The problem with Trump's focus on trade comes because trade displacements tend to be long-term, and have their roots in real cost savings. Fighting that means fighting substantive economic advantage. The only way to do that is to lower costs or raise productivity. Imposing trade barriers does neither.

John
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 29, 2016 - 11:42am PT
Nate Silver correctly predicted the outcome of the last presidential election in all 50 individual states.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Curt
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 29, 2016 - 11:49am PT
President Obama's aggressive advocacy of the LGBTQ agenda has brought devastation to the traditional family.

aren't you the one who is divorced?

I just choked on my lunch! 10b4me, best post of the day!
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:03pm PT
Notice particularly how Trump's chances of winning are decreasing every day. Good riddance.


Curt
Norton

Social climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:04pm PT
The US President is only half white, not really pure white

admit your fixation and moronic racism, klimmer

start by telling us why you could not bring yourself to vote for President Obama in
2008 when the Republican Recession was in full swing losing 500,000 jobs a month

but you didn't care because your own job was protected by the union you pay dues to
and the government that stands behind your paycheck, healthcare and pension

so so weak
Norton

Social climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:07pm PT
House GOP, Paul Ryan Cut $400M from Embassy Safety Funding

House Republicans cut the administration’s request for embassy security funding by $128 million in fiscal 2011 and $331 million in fiscal 2012...

.Last year, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Republicans’ proposed cuts to her department would be “detrimental to America’s national security” — a charge Republicans rejected.

Ryan, Issa and other House Republicans voted for an amendment in 2009 to cut $1.2 billion from State operations, including funds for 300 more diplomatic security positions. Under Ryan’s budget, non-defense discretionary spending, which includes State Department funding, would be slashed nearly 20 percent in 2014, which would translate to more than $400 million in additional cuts to embassy security.

suck on that klimmer


guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
Dingus ..... MacArthur was right all along and so was Patton.

"should have finished off the bastards when we had superiority...."""


LOL


love watching this thread, really do, carry on.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:12pm PT
Dingus ..... MacArthur was right all along and so was Patton.

MacArthur was totally incompetent. They scapegoated Kimmel and Short over Pearl Harbor, despite leaving them out of the intelligence loop, but MacArthur was called a hero, despite getting caught by surprise the day after Pearl Harbor.

Not to mention what he did to the Bonus Marchers.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
Posting anything written by Allen West isn't going to cut it - he's a serious fringe case.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
CIA in Benghazi was looking for the Ark on the Moon.

Meanwhile on Earth, a leading GOP $$ guy says electing Donald guarantees a worldwide depression...

By ALLEGRA KIRKLAND Published JUNE 29, 2016

A billionaire hedge fund manager known for contributing huge sums to Republican candidates cautioned Wednesday that Donald Trump’s economic policies effectively guaranteed a depression.

"The most impactful of the economic policies that I recall him coming out for are these anti-trade policies," Paul Singer said during a panel discussion at the Aspen Ideas Festival in Colorado, according to CNBC. "And I think if he actually stuck to those policies and gets elected president, it's close to a guarantee of a global depression, widespread global depression."
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:46pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:49pm PT
Lame. If you can't support the Embassy there due to lack of funds, and it's unsafe to do so, then you pull them out.

Oh I see.

Pull them out. You pull them out Everywhere then, since the funding shortfall wasn't Libya-specific...London, Mexico City, Thailand, Libya... everywhere.

Lol. What a joke.


fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
So that leaves 18% who have a clue in this country... seems about right.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:52pm PT
Pyro, Klimmer and guyman:

You are supporting a candidate who is openly racist.

Are you racist, too?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
Klimmer, thanks for the education on Allah. I lived in the Middle East for four years. And you?

An imaginary god is still an imaginary god, no matter what flavor of the month he comes in. Yours included.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:56pm PT
What did I twist?

All i did was point out how nonsensical your statement is.

It's completely ridiculous horsesh#t, something you would never be able to detect, ark on the moon.


No wonder you love trump.


We already know you're a homo and Muslim hater and a misogyinist.


dirtbag

climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 12:58pm PT
Your man trump discriminates against Mexicans.

He's a racist.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 29, 2016 - 01:01pm PT
good sh#t klimbore
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 29, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
"The most impactful of the economic policies that I recall him coming out for are these anti-trade policies," Paul Singer said during a panel discussion at the Aspen Ideas Festival in Colorado, according to CNBC. "And I think if he actually stuck to those policies and gets elected president, it's close to a guarantee of a global depression, widespread global depression."

Me, two pages ago:
On to more substantive reasons to fear a Trump presidency: His seven-point program that will allegedly return U.S. jobs really is a two point disaster:

1. Start a currency war with China; and

2. Start a trade war with the world.

I can think of no more effective prescription to start a depression.

I know that if all the economists in the world were laid end-to-end, they'd still be pointing in different directions. Nonetheless, I made my post before reading anyone else's analysis. Competent economists, and even some incompetent ones from Princeton, know that protectionism and trade wars generate economic misery on a massive scale. I'm glad to see at least one journalist recognizes that, too.

john
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 02:00pm PT
I can't stand either candidate, but in the interests of balancing this thread, and a little much needed humor, here is an oldy but goody on the character traits of the Clinton's.
Clinton comments start at 6:25

[Click to View YouTube Video]
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jun 29, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
Pyro, Klimmer and guyman:

You are supporting a candidate who is openly racist.

Are you racist, too?

Pyro, Klimmer and guyman:

You are supporting a candidate who is openly racist.

Are you racist, too?

Pyro, Klimmer and guyman:

You are supporting a candidate who is openly racist.

Are you racist, too?

Pyro, Klimmer and guyman:

You are supporting a candidate who is openly racist.

Are you racist, too?


dirtbag come up with material you racist dong
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 29, 2016 - 02:36pm PT
Noam Chomsky anticipates this election:
[Click to View YouTube Video]

Stoopid Americans...
Norton

Social climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
“I went to an Ivy League school.  I’m very highly educated.  I know words.  I have the best words,”


crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 29, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
Ambassador Stevens sister (and family spokesperson) lays the blame at the foot of the Republican Congress.

Conservatives should be ashamed for politicizing this incident for political gain. If they had any sense of shame left.

(CNN) The sister of the U.S. ambassador to Libya killed in Benghazi said she doesn't blame Hillary Clinton for Chris Stevens' death, instead pointing to Congress for under-budgeting the State Department.

"I do not blame Hillary Clinton or Leon Panetta (for Stevens' death). They were balancing security efforts at embassies and missions around the world," Dr. Anne Stevens, who has acted as a spokesperson for the family, said in an interview with the New Yorker published Tuesday.

"But what was the underlying cause? Perhaps if Congress had provided a budget to increase security for all missions around the world, then some of the requests for more security in Libya would have been granted. Certainly the State Department is underbudgeted," she added. "I would love to hear they are drastically increasing the budget."
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 29, 2016 - 03:27pm PT
Old news but worth repeating ... Look at all the articles talking about this University Professor Elections Statistician, predicting Trump will win the Presidency with a 97% certainty. His model has only been wrong once in 104 years of USA election history.

All from February. Please try to keep up.

Nate Silver got 50 out of 50 state outcomes right in the 2012 presidential election--every single one of them. I'll take his predictions any day over anyone else's. National polls mean NOTHING, only electoral college votes matter.

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
nice manip !
Norton

Social climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 03:56pm PT
you are a woman hater
dirtbag

climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
...and her serial rapist husband.


Prove it.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 29, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
I'm going climbing now, but I will take that challenge ...

sure you are...
Norton

Social climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 05:50pm PT
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 29, 2016 - 05:59pm PT
klimmer is climbing into the pilot seat of the ark. he's been on the moon for awhile now.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jun 29, 2016 - 06:05pm PT

from what I understand.

Seems like you don't understand much.
Norton

Social climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 06:11pm PT

Trump is on his last legs, he just does not know enough to shut his mouth
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 29, 2016 - 06:15pm PT
I want to help her with that string!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 29, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
Norton

Social climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 06:53pm PT

*Proof that President Obama Has Secret Ties to ISIS


A series of American airstrikes killed at least 250 ISIS fighters driving in a convoy outside Fallujah on Wednesday, a senior U.S. defense official confirmed to Fox News.

The strikes occurred on the outskirts of the Iraqi city in "southern Fallujah," a second U.S. defense official told Fox News.

"There was a strike on a convoy of ISIS fighters trying to leave a neighborhood on the outskirts of southern Fallujah that we struck," the official said.

At least 40 vehicles were destroyed in the airstrikes, a U.S. official told Reuters, wh
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
wow, that's a pretty dickish and ignorant statement. Really, there are only three possibilities? Why, because you say so?

Uh, yeah. It's like....my opinion....or something. On an opinion based forum. On an opinion based issue. In response to the opinion that the DNC needs to kiss Sanders or Busters' asses to prevent a Trump victory.

Are you stupid to believe that Sanders supporters in any volume what so ever would actually vote Drumpf?

Are you not paying attention or something? Not all Sanders supporters are on the wait list to live in Boulder.

"petulant man-children " - yeah, sure - sling insults. Does it make you feel better?


the 30% Sanders supporters that are not going to vote (where's that in your three options? Oh, never mind) for Mrs. Clinton are the youth that are participating in this process for the first time and are motivated because of Senator Sanders. They probably don't even care who or what Hillary is. With him out they simply won't show up. And that's too bad because the down ballet candidates need every vote.

I just hope She's kicking ass so bad in Colorado that I can write in Frank Zappa. Need to show up to make sure the other candidates get their vote. Will be tough races for the senate and the house here in colorado.

All that and you're not even a Sanders or Buster? You're smart enough to see the big picture.

Pull your head out of Hillary's ass for once.

I can articulate Clinton's faults very well. What makes Sanders holdouts so obnoxious is the utter blindness to the shortcomings of their candidate. It's pretty disappointing. And the 30-40% holding out are not just young people. This primary made it clear that we are ALL the problem. Democrats have no place blaming Republicans for the coarsening of political culture anymore.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 29, 2016 - 08:33pm PT
Fox News poll....http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/06/29/fox-news-poll-clinton-up-by-6-points-89-percent-say-hot-headed-describes-trump.html
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 30, 2016 - 06:51am PT
Trump talks and Obama acts. https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=ddc&hsimp=yhs-ddc_bd&p=isis%20fighters%20killed&type=cam-80801124altddc_dss_bd_com
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 30, 2016 - 07:26am PT
Hope you don't mind Bob:

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=ddc&hsimp=yhs-ddc_bd&p=isis%20fighters%20killed&type=cam-80801124altddc_dss_bd_com
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jun 30, 2016 - 07:49am PT
Sanders holdouts so obnoxious is the utter blindness to the shortcomings of their candidate.

I think that's a sentence...

Meanwhile, from Bernie Sanders: Democrats Need to Wake Up:

Surprise, surprise. Workers in Britain, many of whom have seen a decline in their standard of living while the very rich in their country have become much richer, have turned their backs on the European Union and a globalized economy that is failing them and their children.

And it’s not just the British who are suffering. That increasingly globalized economy, established and maintained by the world’s economic elite, is failing people everywhere. Incredibly, the wealthiest 62 people on this planet own as much wealth as the bottom half of the world’s population — around 3.6 billion people. The top 1 percent now owns more wealth than the whole of the bottom 99 percent. The very, very rich enjoy unimaginable luxury while billions of people endure abject poverty, unemployment, and inadequate health care, education, housing and drinking water.

AND

During my campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination, I’ve visited 46 states. What I saw and heard on too many occasions were painful realities that the political and media establishment fail even to recognize.

In the last 15 years, nearly 60,000 factories in this country have closed, and more than 4.8 million well-paid manufacturing jobs have disappeared. Much of this is related to disastrous trade agreements that encourage corporations to move to low-wage countries.

Despite major increases in productivity, the median male worker in America today is making $726 dollars less than he did in 1973, while the median female worker is making $1,154 less than she did in 2007, after adjusting for inflation.

I know Hillary is better than the Donald for a host of reasons, and I assume that most Sanders supporters know the same.

Still, Hillary is the status quo. And if you want some of what Sanders addresses to change, then we must fight, and fight hard, for that change. Because voting for establishment candidates is not going to bring that change about.

We holdouts obnoxious? What I find obnoxious is that the DNC (and the MSM) played unfairly to keep Sanders down and out of the news.

Now, about that TPP. Think Clinton will pass it? Come on now, be honest.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 09:10am PT
k-man posted
Still, Hillary is the status quo.

"Status quo" has become a bullshit buzzword that means nothing but I'll bite. What exactly do you mean by "status quo?"

Do you mean that Clinton got to her position by building a network of support among political professionals, business leaders and political activists through years of relationship development and hard work on important issues? That's the traditional path to becoming President in the modern era. Do you mean that she has convinced a larger number of people voting in the Democratic primary that she should be the nominee? More status quo politics there. Do you mean that she has actually invested considerable time into building a national political apparatus capable of electing her? Or that she went into the race actually planning on winning? Or that she is attempting to appeal to the broadest number of Americans because a President doesn't just represent the most liberal wing of the electorate? Or that she focuses her attention on achievable results? More "status quo" politics. She understands that our Constitution requires compromise to actually work? That electing a President doesn't mean anything without a Congress that supports their agenda?

Clinton worked for her entire life to prove that a woman could achieve in a system completely dominated by men. Now that she's done it, she's scorned for being good at it instead of capturing the whims of the moment by packing stadiums, selling unachievable fantasies and trying to hijack the political infrastructure that other people built. Just because something is different doesn't actually make it better. You want Sanders' platform to become reality? Then start getting liberals elected to state offices. If Republicans win at the state level in 2020 (which they've set themselves up nicely to do) we're looking at another decade of the same crap.

What I find obnoxious is that the DNC (and the MSM) played unfairly to keep Sanders down and out of the news.

Again, the primary process (with the exception of the debate structure) was designed in a way that completely benefited Sanders. Had it been designed differently he would have lost by Super Tuesday.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 09:14am PT
"Hillary Clinton is status quo" is just another one of the soundbites developed during the primary campaign period, with the hopes of encouraging people to look at Sanders as a candidate. It worked.

But guess what - Sanders is not going to be the selected candidate on the Democrat ticket. It's just that simple.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 09:18am PT
Someone is using her noggin!
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 09:24am PT
Trump annoys the Brits with his constant whining for money...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/foreign-politicians-to-trump-stop-begging-for-money/ar-AAhMW7o
dirtbag

climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 09:58am PT
I'd love to see warren as the veep. I'm aware that there are many good arguments against her but she would electrify an otherwise cautious campaign.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 10:39am PT
Sure seems to be heading in that direction. I just find it surprising that she'd want the job. She's a far more powerful presence in the Senate. Additionally, I am hesitant to see her as qualified to take over if something happened to Clinton.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 10:54am PT
Holy f*#k Klimmer.

Did you even read the links you provided "proving" Clinton's out of wedlock child???!!!!!


The first few sentences from the "anusha" link you posted says:


Clinton's negro whoremongering brought him son that he hides


Article published in "American Times Today"

Jew money and their news media played the key role in having Bill Clinton elected president. They are also trying desperately to keep the lid on the sexual activities of Clinton.



I'm used to seeing you post some crap sources to support your weird clams...but seriously?!?!?!?


I've got things to do today. I'm not going to bother looking at the rest of your stuff.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:00am PT
You all like polling ...

Trump on top: Republican pulls ahead of Hillary Clinton by 4 points in shock poll after trailing by 5 a week ago
By David Martosko, Us Political Editor For Dailymail.com
13:44 30 Jun 2016, updated 15:17 30 Jun 2016

From the very article Klimmer just cited. I doubt if he even bothers to read them.

Real Clear Politics, which compiles an average of recent presidential polls, still shows Clinton leading by 5 points during the last two weeks.

Curt
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:01am PT
Trump is on his last legs, he just does not know enough to shut his mouth

I think and hope you're right (well, correct. Conservatives are right!), but he's not alone in that ignorance. His anti-trade rant seems to have attraced the attention and agreement of more than a few Sandersnistas as well, since a desire to return to mercantilism seems to permeate contemporary "progressive" economic policy.

Fortunately, I don't think the Trumpkins and mercantilists form a majority in any state, and most Sandersnistas should get over their "never Hillary" attitude if they perceive the only alternative as Trump. They won't get over their distrust, or their desire to oust "the establishment," but there are not enough "never Hillarys," and probably won't be absent an indictment or a "midnight massacre," to elect Trump.

John


dirtbag

climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:11am PT
Klimmer, you're nuts.

And if you're using websites with a heading that refers to Clintons "negro whoremongeriing" and "Jew money" as a source I can only conclude you're a racist too.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:21am PT
Klimmer

Mountain climber

Jun 30, 2016 - 11:19am PT
Dirtbag,


Lol. Now you blame me for the articles posted? Others wrote them, researched them not me. Yes I am reposting them.


Don't you think Bill Clinton should acknowledge his son? Don't you think he has a moral obligation and a legal obligation to do so?

Or do you think he should dig in some more and resist, and continue to be the dead beat dad?



I'm getting to the sources (there are soooo many) that bear out the truth that Former President Bill Clinton is a serial rapist and his corrupt attorney wife, former First Lady, Sec of State, and now candidate for President was/is an enabler and his legal attack dog. She had/has to be. She's a lesbian/bisexual. If she didn't cover his back she was completely exposed to her own deviant sexual escapades. She wants to save her political career.

Another very important question, why doesn't Bill Clinton acknowledge his son Danney Williams he had with a prostitute Bobbie Ann Williams in Little Rock Arkansas, out of wedlock? He wants his father in his life. Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton have completely pushed him away. Oh maybe it exposes the truth that Bill Clinton is a liar and dead beat dad, and Hillary has hidden this to try to save her political career bent on power and corruption. Maybe that's the reason.

Re-Surfaced Sex Allegation Could Be Hillary Clinton’s BIGGEST NIGHTMARE

Read more: http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/re-surfaced-sex-allegation-could-be-hillary-clintons-biggest-nightmare/#ixzz4D5JEkELK

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/gossip/tab-probes-clinton-love-child-rumor-article-1.82819


Danney Williams –
@danney_williams
I'm the son of the 42nd President of the United States- Bill Clinton.
http://anusha.com/negroson.htm #ClintonKid

https://mobile.twitter.com/danney_williams





He's reaching out to his father, but no love in return. Sad.



Maybe we should call this summer, THE SUMMER OF TRUTH 2016


And you are reposting that racist link.

(It's the anusha one; maybe others too)

Nice.

Quit teaching kids.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:24am PT
Curt,


Do you read?

Yes. And what you have posted (twice now) is that one poll out of many shows Trump ahead, although the average of all polls shows exactly the opposite. Cherry pick your supporting data much?

Curt
dirtbag

climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:30am PT
I'm not interested in crap white supremacist sources.

You are. Shameful.


I'm done with you.

Out.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:31am PT
^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, I just realized you invented the Klimmerheist knot.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:37am PT
Kilmer, do you teach in the public school System? That I pay for?
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:41am PT
Stop your name calling. Seek counseling.

Klimmer, I don't think there is a single person on this site that believes you are sane. Leftists and rightists, Christians and non-believers, Trump lovers and Trump haters, pro- and anti-gun freaks -- all these constantly clashing people share one belief in common: That the poster going by "Klimmer" has lost touch with reality.

Perhaps it is you who should seek counseling.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:53am PT
Anybody can grow up to be president..

Oh wait, growing up seems to be optional.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:57am PT
Stop your name calling. Seek counseling.

Klimmer, I don't think there is a single person on this site that believes you are sane. Leftists and rightists, Christians and non-believers, Trump lovers and Trump haters, pro- and anti-gun freaks -- all these constantly clashing people share one belief in common: That the poster going by "Klimmer" has lost touch with reality.

Perhaps it is you who should seek counseling.

I think he's certainly 'sane' as I've plenty experience there. :) . I might not agree with him about much but boy is this fun to watch.

What I don't understand is why a few here apparently really "hate" him so.... He offers up his views without name calling or vulgarities.

And if you don't agree with him, so be it.

Sorry... carry on.

dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:59am PT
Stop your name calling. Seek counseling.

Iron Age irony right there
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
Klimmer, so I googled the name of Danney Williams, and one of the links led to this:
A claim by Bobbie Ann Williams, a Little Rock prostitute, that her son, Danny, was fathered by Bill Clinton has been proven false by DNA analysis. Star, the tabloid that first published Gennifer Flowers? claim that she had been one of Clinton?s lovers, was reported to have paid Williams “a low six-figure” sum for exclusive rights to the story. It arranged to have Danny?s DNA checked against that of the President. On January 9, the Drudge Report broke the news that Time magazine had learned that the DNA tests cleared Clinton.

http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/clinton-didnt-father-hookers-son/
That article was back in 1999, by the way.... SEVENTEEN YEARS AGO


By your OWN beliefs, a woman must stand by her husband, as divorce is against G-d's desire. So what would you have Hillary do, in the face of an unfaithful husband? You'd be casting your stones no matter. She cannot win, with a person such as yourself standing in judgement.


In case you haven't been following the news, there have been reports that Donald Trump is being sued for the rape of a 13 year old girl.

http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/

and, more inflammatory, is this article, posted today: http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/295335/donald-trump-child-rape-lawsuit-jeffrey-epstein-jane-doe/


So which is worse, in the eyes of God - raping a girl too young to be able to consent to a sexual relationship(and who says she rejected the man in any case), or being a woman whose husband seems incapable of keeping it in his pants? Oh, no doubt the woman..... after all Eve started it, and misogynists have had us paying for that alleged temptation ever since.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
Klimmer posting the one outlier poll with Trump leading basically sums up Klimmer's entire brain.


*edit* That and proving that people are believe things MORE after they've been disproved.
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Jun 30, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
I think he's certainly 'sane' as I've plenty experience there. :) . I might not agree with him about much but boy is this fun to watch.

What I don't understand is why a few here apparently really "hate" him so.... He offers up his views without name calling or vulgarities.

And if you don't agree with him, so be it.

+1

I don't always agree with him. Trump is not my thing. But, Klimmer seems like a decent dude. Not at all like the brownshirt libs on this thread.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 12:23pm PT
A "decent dude" does not harp on a woman being gay or bisexual.

But I do agree that much of the vitriol against Klimmer is more telling about those who write it than anything else.
dirtbag

climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
Citing a blatantly racist website as a credible source is abhorrent.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 30, 2016 - 12:40pm PT
The Republicans are getting ready for Donald at the convention.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-gop-delegate-insurrection-20160627-snap-story.html


As Republicans move closer to their convention in Cleveland next month, a growing faction of delegates is campaigning to block Donald Trump from securing the presidential nomination.

The multi-pronged effort — which includes outreach to individual attendees, national television ads and even a lawsuit — aims at a long-shot goal. They want to allow the 2,472 delegates to vote for whomever they choose instead of casting ballots according to the results of the state primaries and caucuses, in which Trump won the most votes in a crowded field of contenders.

Backers of the block-Trump efforts say such extraordinary measures are necessary in light of Trump’s declining poll numbers, anemic fundraising and penchant for inflammatory rhetoric, all of which, they say, leads to self-inflicted cycles of negative news stories.

And they are buoyed by lingering unease in the GOP about the presumptive nominee. An NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released Monday found 52% of Republicans weren’t satisfied with Trump.

“The convention is not a coronation. They were never meant to be,” said Steve Lonegan, a New Jersey-based Republican operative who is working with Courageous Conservatives PAC, one of several groups calling to “free the delegates.”
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 12:43pm PT
The K-man is either a troll, which explains almost everything, or a person with strongly held "beliefs". They are so strongly held, that all evidence to the contrary is completely ignored. For someone claiming to be a "science teacher" I find that very odd, so I am going with troll.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
Happiegrrrl2 posted
A "decent dude" does not harp on a woman being gay or bisexual.

But I do agree that much of the vitriol against Klimmer is more telling about those who write it than anything else.

Two excellent points Happie. I appreciate your thoughtful posts.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 30, 2016 - 12:56pm PT
I don't think he's an evil guy. I tried to send him some wine a while back but he never pm'd his address.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 30, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
The K-man is either a troll, which explains almost everything, or a person with strongly held "beliefs". They are so strongly held, that all evidence to the contrary is completely ignored. For someone claiming to be a "science teacher" I find that very odd, so I am going with troll.

There are plenty of people who believe in contradictory things. There are plenty of scientists who believe a man in Rome with a strange pointy hat hears voices and talks to _od.

If people were 100% rational there wouldn't be anyone climbing huge rocks and chunks of ice for fun.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 30, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
As Republicans move closer to their convention in Cleveland next month, a growing faction of delegates is campaigning to block Donald Trump from securing the presidential nomination.

If the repubs follow through on this sort of thing, they will lose any credibility they might have left after a process that produced Trump as the presumptive nominee in the first place.

I see Trump as simply the repub-on-the-street's fist-pump in the face of the repub establishment. What will that establishment have left if it entirely ignores its rank and file voters?

What's disheartening to me in this election cycle is that the nation appears pretty evenly split into two mobs, neither of which is thinking very critically about their respective candidate and their side's process that resulted in such horrific nominees.

These are the best that both parties have to offer us?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 30, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
Excellent observation, fear.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 30, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
Damn Klimmer, you sure have all the answers. How do you know so much? Is your brain ever full?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jun 30, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
These are the best that both parties have to offer us?

The secret is there aren't two parties....

Shhhhhh.....

But everyone loves a team so it works.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
I hear every "investigation" and "scandal" about the Clintons is based on well founded truths and hard proven evidence, confirm/deny.


All of these allegations suffer from the "throw everything against the wall and see if something sticks" problem. Eventually people just stop believing any of it so when something does happen, like Clinton not using her email properly, people just don't care that much. It also trivializes rape when the only time large portions of America seem to care about it is if it is going to make one of their opponents look bad.


The secret is there aren't two parties....

This and other popular myths can be read in my new book!
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 30, 2016 - 01:42pm PT
All of these allegations suffer from the "throw everything against the wall and see if something sticks" problem.

That's one interpretation. Another is that Clinton is one solid wall of "appearance of evil," so much so that rational people simply can't believe that "none of it is true."

Surely you can't deny the appearance of evil in Clinton's quite apparent speeches-for-favors (and refusal to release transcripts) routine on Wall Street. Surely you can't deny the appearance of evil with the Clinton Foundation's ties to Clinton as SecState. And the litany goes on.

This is a woman (actually married couple) that have decades of bad judgment regarding activities that clearly appear to be corrupt. If they in fact have never done anything as corrupt as they appear to be, that strikes a rational mind as both amazing and as further solidifying the badness of their judgment regarding appearances.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
madbolter posted
Surely you can't deny the appearance of evil in Clinton's quite apparent speeches-for-favors (and refusal to release transcripts) routine on Wall Street. Surely you can't deny the appearance of evil with the Clinton Foundation's ties to Clinton as SecState. And the litany goes on.

People see what they want to see and politics these days is all about Swiftboating everything. Turning strengths into weaknesses. Clinton didn't invent the overpaid speech circuit, she just took advantage of it like everyone else at her level is. Vanilla Ice makes $15,000 to show up places. Vanilla f*#king Ice. Just because Clinton doesn't make great choices about her image and is defensive about her personal life after 30 years of literally being accused of murdering people doesn't mean that she's hiding criminal activity. Clinton's speeches to Goldman are probably full of the kind of adulating garbage one would expect to hear from someone you're paying $250,000 to come talk which, unfortunately, is also the kind of stuff that makes you look bad when you're running against a socialist. It might have been smarter image-wise to release them, but maybe not. In either case, there is literally nothing to support that she received "cash for favors."

madbolter posted
This is a woman (actually married couple) that have decades of bad judgment regarding activities that clearly appear to be corrupt.

Wait, the bar for getting someone to retire from politics is to make them APPEAR corrupt? Really? Obama appeared to be a Kenyan Muslim terrorist sleeper agent. Case closed I guess?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 30, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
That's one interpretation. Another is that Clinton is one solid wall of "appearance of evil," so much so that rational people simply can't believe that "none of it is true."

Proof only that repeating the same lies over and over again does work. Some people start believing the lies.

Curt
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
People see what they want to see . . .

Which is why I'm a Bayesian statistician, but that's another story.

The presumptive nominees of both major parties have so many negatives it's easy to overlook all the flaws of whichever candidate we support as the lesser evil. From my perspective, Trump offers an egomaniacal racist whose economic policies would create a disaster, and whose business record is, at best, mediocre considering how much money he inherited. On the plus side, his proposed SCOTUS nominees are excellent.

Then there's Hillary Clinton, who thinks rules for everyone else don't apply to her, who has shamelessly stonewalled investigations into her illegal email server and her lies to the American People about the Benghazi attacks, and expects everyone to ignore her actions. If a Republican office holder did the same things, he or she would be impeached. Oh, wait, he resigned.

Her judicial nominees would be disastrous for the rule of law, and could take a decade or more to undo. "Carter's Little Liver Pills," as we called his appointments to the Ninth Circuit, proved rude, arrogant and lawless, and took about 20 years to cycle out of the circuit. That's really about the only area where Trump has an advantage for someone with my world view.

On the plus side, she listens to other smart people, doesn't encourage the overt racism that Trump does, has a better understanding of foreign trade and foreign affairs generally (at least when not forced to deal with Sandersnistas), and says really dumb things only about once every three years (e.g. "What difference does it make now," "Businesses don't create jobs," or "I'm not saying home baking cookies.") Trump says really dumb things hourly.

Some choice! Nonetheless, when I put all the factors together, it's no contest. Even with all her flaws, Hillary is so much better than Donald that I simply have no choice if I care about our future.

John
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 30, 2016 - 02:33pm PT
Wait, the bar for getting someone to retire from politics is to make them APPEAR corrupt?

No, and you know that I'm not saying this.

But you are not being totally honest about how thoroughly and in how many different contexts Hillary has pushed the boundaries of "appearance of evil."

Let her release her speech transcripts, and she just might disarm that one.

Or, as many suspect, the truth of the promises she made behind closed doors (for massive amounts of cash) would be damning.

Nobody "makes her appear" corrupt. She's doing it to herself.

If it's all nothing but a "right wing smear campaign," then why hasn't Obama gotten 1/10 of it? With Clinton, all you see is smoke! It's natural for any rational person to question: "Really? Seriously? Not even a flicker of a flame anywhere?"

People "defending" Clinton by trying to minimize the scope and quantity of her "smoking" events will by necessity fail to understand how she appears to those with legitimate questions to ask. And it's her own bad judgment that has attached that appearance to her.

Of course the right is going to circle like sharks: Blood in the water! Let's eat!

But SHE is the one that's been chumming.

Same with Trump!

And here's the left: Blood in the water!
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
Nobody "makes her appear" corrupt. She's doing it to herself.

Quite true. Her consistent refusal to come clean makes her appear untrustworthy. Her spin doctors don't help, either.

As just one example, consider how her team tries to make her email server use no different from what others did. Most people paying attention know that she set up a private email server for all her communication, and refused to use the State Department email server, in contrast to Powell, Rice, et al., who would send an official email via private server once in a very great while. Trying to say that Clinton, Powell and Rice all treated official emails the same makes the person saying that out as a liar.

Then, just within the last week, we find that she withheld relevant emails contradicting her previous testimony. To date, everything her spin team said about her email problem has needed retraction, correction, or augmentation except the last thing she said. That probably will be contradicted when the next piece of evidence shows up. These aren't the actions of honest people, and they certainly don't make objective observers conclude that she's trustworthy.

I can tell you from almost 40 years experience that when a witness is confronted with contradictory testimony, it doesn't go very far to say the other person lied, particularly if the witness has to say that about multiple other witnesses. If they expect to be vindicated because the trier of fact believes the other side lied, they better offer some objective proof. the "repeat the lie often enough and people will believe it" line doesn't cut it for any except those who willfully refuse to see any downside to Hillary Clinton, because their only counterargument has been either naked denial or clear distortion.

Nonetheless, I think the majority of voters everywhere see her dishonesty as less of a problem than Trump's active and potentially devastating stupidity. I still think Lincoln was right - you can't fool all of the people all of the time. I have yet, however, to see a reliable cure for stupid.

John
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 30, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
Hillary Clinton, who thinks rules for everyone else don't apply to her,
False. Yes, you can find an example or two, but, on balance this charge is false.

her lies to the American People about the Benghazi attacks
What a whopper. Flat out false as proved by the latest (8th) "investigation". And the e-mail to Chelsea is not a smoking gun.

If a Republican office holder did the same things, he or she would be impeached.
False. Baseless charge.

Her judicial nominees would be disastrous for the rule of law
False. Again, partisan speculation.

Even with all her flaws, Hillary is so much better than Donald that I simply have no choice if I care about our future.
True.

Specious reasoning leads to a logical conclusion. Good enough, you pass.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
No it doesn't, Locker. The difference is that the official emails of Powell, Rice, et. al. are in the custody and control of the government, so the government, not Powell or Rice, decides what gets disclosed. Hillary's are all under her sole control, making her the arbiter of what gets disclosed. When others end up disclosing damaging emails sent from her private server that she didn't disclose, it her llok like someone hiding something.

I do need to correct one impression my previous post makes, though. I don't think that Hillary is a total liar. All of us tell untruths at one time or another. Despite God's standard of complete truth, our inability to tell the truth in love leads me to conclude that life on earth would be worse if we all told everyone else exactly what we know or think. I don't think Hillary lies very often, but if something goes wrong, she sometimes distorts things, as most of us do. The difference is that we never hear her admit to error. That's what bothers people.

John
Norton

Social climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
Hi John

What lies did she tell about Benghazi?

If you would because I seriously want to know what you know

Thanks
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
her lies to the American People about the Benghazi attacks
What a whopper. Flat out false as proved by the latest (8th) "investigation". And the e-mail to Chelsea is not a smoking gun.

Um, which emails are you reading, crankster? Those released make it abundantly clear that the narrative of a reaction to the offensive video was known to be untrue from the beginning. Hillary's emails said that it was a coordinated attack by a terrorist organization and not a reaction to that video.

I understand that Hillary's fans don't worry about the lie, but lie it was. She knew the truth, and she told the American people a known falsehood. If she had her reasons, she's never told us, which is odd if it makes no difference now. Get over it.

John
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 03:23pm PT
Certainly stupidity "Trumps" dishonesty, but why does Trump get a pass on all the lies he tells?

Anyway, soon he will be gone and his only regret will be that his papa's not around to bail him out of the money he's losing.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 30, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
When will it end???

You're astoundingly touchy about that subject, Locker. Seems like you'd just be content with the traditional and harmless "fictions" of others.

There's a vast difference between people harmlessly believing in Santa Clause and those who shoot up a MacDonalds because they believe that their dog channeled Santa Clause and told them to do it.

It's not like you yourself don't harbor a whole spree of harmless fantasies of your own. Nobody's getting their hackles up every time you go off on one of your fantasy-trips.

You sure seem to have a hard-on for Ysh (no vowels, btw). Did "he" rape your cherished dog or smite you in some past life?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 30, 2016 - 03:47pm PT
It doesn't appear that Trump understands how the Supreme Court works, either.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-flunks-supreme-court-arithmetic

Curt
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 30, 2016 - 03:50pm PT
Why are we sentient primates so afraid to die without the promise of an afterlife reward? I don't get it. We're not special. We're a blip in the infinite of time and space. To think otherwise is delusional. No one, not Jesus, not Mohammed, not Buddha, has come back to tell us otherwise. Gone is gone, dead is dead.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 30, 2016 - 04:07pm PT
Curt's post above is a good one, so I'm making a 'wall-o-text' a la Klimmer, who has taught us so well. There are citizens out there who actually want homo-sexual (just sort of borrowing Klimmer's style here) Trump to be president? The man with the greatest brain in the world sure talks strangely when it comes to the arithmetic stuff. Klimmer, could he teach physics? From Steve Brennen MSNBC:

For the typical adult, counting to five should be pretty easy. It makes Donald Trump’s trouble with Supreme Court arithmetic that much more puzzling.

On Monday, the Supreme Court handed down arguably the most important abortion-rights ruling in a generation, prompting the Republican presidential hopeful to say … literally nothing. To the consternation of some of his social-conservative allies, Trump acted as if the court’s decision didn’t exist, offering no response in speeches, interviews, or social media.

It took a few days, but this morning the presumptive GOP nominee broke his unexpected silence in an interview with conservative radio host Mike Gallagher.

“Now if we had Scalia was living, or if Scalia was replaced by me, you wouldn’t have had that, OK? It would’ve been the opposite.”

Actually, no, it wouldn’t have. This week’s ruling was actually a 5-3 decision. Yes, Antonin Scalia’s passing meant the Supreme Court was down one justice, but it doesn’t take a mathematician to know 3 +1 does not equal 5.

Remember, the decision was on Monday, and today’s Thursday. Trump and his team had three days to come up with the candidate’s response to a major court ruling, and this is what they came up with.

In the same interview, the New York Republican complained about Chief Justice John Roberts, telling the host, “He could’ve killed [the Affordable Care Act] twice and he didn’t. That was terrible. And that was a Bush appointment. That was so bad, what happened. And you know, to me, you know, almost not recoverable from his standpoint. Very, very sad situation.”

Actually, the second time the justices considered the constitutionality of “Obamacare,” the law was upheld in a 6-3 ruling. When Trump said today Roberts “could’ve killed” the ACA, his math is still wrong – because 6 - 1 does not equal four.

Do you ever get the impression that Trump hasn’t really thought this issue through? Ever wonder if there’s an issue he has thought through?

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
I can't express my dislike of the Clintons better than these 2 quotes.

“My worry is that Democrats like Hillary have been saying, ‘The republicans are worse!’ for so long that they’ve begun to believe it excuses everything.”
~ Matt Taibbi

"I’ve feared it [the inevitable Hillary presidency] for a long time, and there’s something horrible and undefeatable about people who have no life except the worship of power. . . . people who don’t want the meeting to end, the people who just are unstoppable, who only have one focus, no humanity, no character, nothing but the worship of money and power. They win in the end."[/url]
Christopher Hitchens

Edit: Whoa, new poll
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/white_house_watch

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
Trump's campaign is an economic disaster right now. He doesn't have to get elected to adversely affect the nation.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cities-bill-trump-high-cost-094503439.html



Cities that have paid for extra police and emergency personnel when Trump has passed through are trying to get him to reimburse those expenses.



Yeah, right.

The cities are sending Trump invoices for the additional expenses, expecting him to pay up.

Good luck with that. And don't forget to feed the Easter Bunny twice a day.



Trump's M.O. is to receive what he wants up front, and then refuse to pay. This is how he has conducted business for decades.

Trump has been sued literally thousands of times by employees, suppliers, contractors, and even his own lawyers because he doesn't pay his bills. His usual claim is rotten service, poor workmanship, inferior quality, or some other imaginary defect that allegedly releases Trump from fulfilling his end of the contract.


Trump's Art of the Deal is to initiate the "real" negotiations after he has obtained what was agreed upon. Once he has his hands on what he wants, he turns his back on the other person and despoils him.

Trump's daughter Ivanka has also done this, over a large quantity of diamond jewelry for her signature jewelry line. Ivank's claim was that her AutoCAD drawing designs were returned to her one day late, so she didn't have to pay for the jewelry that had been manufactured and delivered. The jeweler, a small business in Nevada, had to sue Ivanka to get paid, and not surprisingly, the jeweler prevailed in court.



Supposedly, Trump will say that the police officers, firemen and ambulance workers "performed poorly", and that they don't deserve their overtime pay.

He used that excuse when he was sued by waitresses at his Mar-a-Lago resort, after they had been forced to work 20-hour shifts without proper breaks and without being paid overtime.




EDIT: TRUMP INTENTIONALLY CREATES CHAOS AND HAVOC AT HIS RALLIES


Law enforcement officials say the Trump campaign’s habit of overpromising rally seats, which creates long lines at its events, exacerbates costs. In Eau Claire, a central Wisconsin city of 67,000, Trump held a rally at the local high school, the town’s largest venue, which holds 1,800. According to Deputy Police Chief Matt Rokus, the campaign distributed more than 6,000 tickets before the event, leaving thousands of supporters outside, where they faced anti-Trump protesters. “Duh, there’s going to be a problem,” he says. “You got a bunch of people who drove hours to get there thinking they had a seat.”

Trump’s event cost Eau Claire $33,819 for extra staff, police overtime, and traffic directors, Rokus says. Rallies the same day held by Clinton and Bernie Sanders required no extra resources, he says.



TRUMP: A REAL PIECE OF WORK




madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 30, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
These polls, while entertaining and even at times interesting, are not significant, imo. There's a lot of time left, and such polls at best "track" the popular vote, which doesn't neatly "map onto" the electoral vote. The electoral vote is all that matters, and Trump definitely has a hard, hard row to hoe in that regard. He could lead Clinton by 20 points and still lose the electoral vote. For republicans, 270 is a high bar to clear!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Jun 30, 2016 - 05:21pm PT
John, much ado about nothing. Administrations need time to clear the fog of war and get the facts 100% straight before releasing public statements. Telling her daughter in a private e-mail what she believes to have occurred given the information available at the moment is hardly a cause for concern, in my opinion.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 30, 2016 - 05:34pm PT
Ahh....the wisdom of the ST politards and the collegial way they go about discussing their differences in their valiant attempt to reach common ground....warms the cockles of the heart, I say.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
Oh, come on, Jim. Larry, zBrown, Locker, cranster, Norton, madbolter1, Dirtbag, Curt, and a great many others (sorry to all I forgot) don't seem to have much difficulty actually making cogent arguments here. In fact, I find the signal-to-noise ratio has improved quite a bit lately. Maybe its's just my imagination, but the looming Trump candidacy for a Republican like me has an effect rather like being hanged in a fortnight was said to do; it concentrates the mind.

John
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 06:09pm PT
JE, do you feel betrayed by your political party?

My take on the present situation is that the Republican party has, for decades, misled its members into supporting policies and programs that have primarily benefited corporations and wealthy people at the expense of the middle class. Two examples are claims that tax cuts for businesses and rich people will benefit all of society (they don't) and that concentrated wealth at the very top will trickle-down and benefit everyone (it doesnt').

The average voter now realizes the GOP's deceit, and Trump is capitalizing on their anger. Trump's supporters would follow any raving lunatic who promised that he would fight the system, help them get even, and return to them their long-lost prosperity.




It's pretty disgusting that a distraction like Trump is so effective in preventing people from realizing that their problem doesn't lie with the politicians, per se. It lies with how politicians are controlled, and who is controlling them. The real problem is the increasing influence of big money in politics, which is used to further transfer money to those with big money, so that they can increase their influence even further.

There is a self-reinforcing, positive feedback effect at work, and it is destroying America. Parasitic entities, such as big pharma, Wall Street bankers and super-wealthy families are feeding off, and killing the host.




America may have passed a tipping point, beyond which the people will not be able to regain control of their government without some sort of violent revolution.


nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jun 30, 2016 - 06:09pm PT
besides it being very early there are two other reasons that are more unique to this cycle, that mean, assuming it isn't a complete blow out come november [and it may very well be], that polls are going to be much more untrustworthy this cycle than usual:

1. the bradley effect: as with the brexit vote, where, as far as i saw, all prior polling had the "stay" vote winning in a way, that while close, there was to have been no question that it would win, it's possible this cycle that when push comes to shove people may be willing to place an x next to something in an anonymous voting booth that they won't admit to over a phone or even on an online query. i suspect that trump will continuously underpoll throughout this cycle due to this effect.

2. because of the historically high unfavourability numbers for both candidates, the "support" backing both candidates includes a higher number of people whose vote is purely "against" the other candidate, rather than "for" who they will end up voting for. while this is true of some support in any cycle, the much higher numbers this time round means i suspect that this is likely going to be a much more capricious cycle than usual, and one that is more dependent on the news du jour on and directly prior to voting day than is typical. with dislike of either candidate at such historic highs, i'd argue that both candidates have support that is based in less security than would be overall typical and this is likely going to be an entertaining cycle as the chaotic quality that trump brings, means he's likely going to keep throwing whatever pie he can get his grubby little fingers on at the nearest wall, in the hopes that it/something will stick, right up until voting day. and with the clinton campaign's reluctance to do press conferences [six months without one now] and the aiding and abetting of a reduced number of debates by the dnc [combined with also going back on her word with regard to one debate] means that this cycle has two candidates with almost exactly the opposite strategies: chaos vs control, improvise vs structure. and so ultimately who the fUck knows what is going to happen when water and oil really start to intermingle. i'm arguing that even large polling advantages a month out are going to be far less safe than has been typical in the past.



with all of that said, given trump's continuing to become even more outlandish and bombastic, to a degree that i wouldn't have expected a month ago, unless the american populace turns out to be even more buffoonish than i think/i'd thought [dubious but increasingly possible] or trump manages to pull off a bit of a transformation [still possible but increasingly unlikely] it's looking like hillary's almost seventy year odyssey towards being leader of the american people, continues to get more tantalizingly close by the day...

if she succeeds it will have to be one of the most laborious, plotted, grinding, trench warfare style successes in at least recentish political history. i say that with both some distaste and some marvel and respect.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
Sorry, Jim B, I was actually responding to Jim D, but it took me so long that your message intervened. You and he both, of course, are heavy contributors to the signal, not the noise.

John
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jun 30, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
You've got some McNuggets in thinking there is a difference.

You're conflating dialog from two different threads here. Inquiring minds are surely confused.

And, yes, there is indeed a difference between two people sincerely holding beliefs in "fictional entities, but where one's beliefs lead him to be a harmless, law-abiding citizen and the other's lead him to shoot up a McDonald's. If you can't see that obvious difference, then I theorize that you may have McNuggets for brains. ;-)
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 06:19pm PT
Two examples are claims that tax cuts for businesses and rich people will benefit all of society (they don't) and that concentrated wealth at the very top will trickle-down and benefit everyone (it doesnt').

The first claim is certainly a conservative and Republican one, if stated slightly differently. Cuts in marginal rates for business and individuals benefit society because they stimulate economic activity. The econometric literature substantiates that claim quite well. Even Obama's then head of his Council of Economic Advisers co-authored a paper in the American Economic Review confirming that.

The second is bogus. I've never heard Republicans claim that concentration of wealth benefits society. We have claimed that death taxes can hurt society by causing the breakup of efficient enterprises because of the need to sell assets to pay the tax. Any lawyer or accountant who has worked with family farmers should be able to see that. I find it particularly interesting, but not surprising, that the concentration of wealth the Democrats now so deplore worsened greatly on their watch. Perhaps they may yet learn that crony capitalism is evil, that regulation can have consequences distributed unevenly through economic strata, or that mere redistributionism doesn't produce economic growth.

While I'm at it, I should agree with an unstated part of your post, viz. that Republicans view business as good for the country, not the enemy. Characterizing corporations as "rich" or for the "rich," however, lacks a factual basis, and that is particularly true with corporate taxes. Economists have known for about 60 years now, since Arnold Zellner's work published in the 1950's, that we do not know the incidence of the corporate income tax. We don't know - and cannot know econometrically or otherwise - who pays it.

John
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 30, 2016 - 06:29pm PT
John
maybe you can show us some evidence that lowering taxes for the investers creates jobs and/or improves the economy,?
Is there a trickle down?

and/

what regulation/s if repealed will create jobs or improve the economy?

Any studies that agree with your premises?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 30, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
Don't want to let JE down, but Holy Sheeit, we're gonna need to resurrect that net they spread across the opening to San Diego Bay back in WWII.

No tickee, no baby? Show me the money.

“I’ve been getting a lot of calls,” said Jacob Sapochnick, Immigration Attorney. “It's been around for the past five years, mostly in Los Angeles and the East Coast, but now we're starting to see it in San Diego."

U.S. baby births are a big business, especially in China. On the website usbabydiy.com, there are pages and pages of advertisements for birth centers, many of them found in San Diego. The ads offer room and board for several months, including, services for/after pregnancy and tout the best medical care money can buy.

“The behind it is have your baby in the U.S. the baby will become a US citizen,” said Sapochnick. “Having a baby here, there’s nothing illegal about it. It’s just people are making it into a profit industry.”
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 30, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
Sorry, Trump — It’s Totally Not Illegal To Dump You In Cleveland

Neither state laws nor party rules can block delegates from stopping Donald Trump, if they want to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rnc-convention-rules_us_57758ec5e4b0a629c1a95eaf?section=
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 30, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jun 30, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
In fact, I find the signal-to-noise ratio has improved quite a bit lately.

Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings! Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type makes me puke! You vacuous toffee-nosed malodorous pervert!!!









Now, that's more like it! Isn't it??
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
You are correct that I think that some big businesses, especially pharmaceutical, defense and financial companies, are operating as if they were the enemy.

If it looks like, walks, swims, flies, and quacks like a duck . . . . . . . . . . . . it's not WVB.

It's a duck.



Two examples:

Non-prescription asthma inhalers, costing less than $10 ten years ago, are no longer available in the United States. A prescription-only asthma inhaler that costs $5 in Mexico as a generic costs $75-$100 here as a brand-name item. There is no generic version of the prescription albuterol asthma inhaler available in the United States. The Mexican generic version contains the same medicine, same number of doses, and the same propellant. The only difference is that big pharma here is able to manipulate the FDA into providing and protecting monopolistic, non-free enterprise market behavior by the big corporations.


When Congress gave $700 billion (and more later) to big banks, to use for modifying loans, and preventing wholesale home foreclosures, they spent it on "performance" bonuses for the executives who caused the financial crisis. The banks didn't loan that money out, cheaply, to assist taxpayers and citizens, as they promised they would do. Instead, that money was used to offset the huge losses the banks would have otherwise seen when they foreclosed on thousands and thousands of homes, putting people out into the street, and taking possession of vacant, distressed properties.









TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY BENEFIT THE WEALTHY, NOT SOCIETY AS A WHOLE


Kansas tea-baggers agitated to cut taxes on businesses and wealthy people, claiming it would boost the economy and benefit everyone. It didn't.

The Koch brothers, and their Kansas-based Koch Industries, were among the most virulent agitators for the massive tax cuts for themselves. They benefited, and the public lost.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-kansas-tea-party-disaster-20141023

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/kansass-failed-experiment/389874/

http://usuncut.com/class-war/the-trickle-down-disaster-in-kansas-is-so-bad-that-even-republicans-are-trying-to-cover-it-up/

http://www.cbpp.org/blog/what-does-kansas-botched-tax-cut-experiment-portend-for-other-states






TAX INCREASES FOR THE WEALTHY IN MINNESOTA RESULTED IN ECONOMIC BOOM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-gibson/mark-dayton-minnesota-economy_b_6737786.html






Your witness, counselor.







Because this is the Get Rid of Trump topic, I am obligated to point out that:

Trump has repeatedly said that if he is elected, he intends to give wealthy people and corporations big tax cuts.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/29/upshot/trump-plan-is-tax-cut-for-the-rich-even-hedge-fund-managers.html



Trump, the "political outsider" is simply repeating the same old, tired GOP party lie that letting wealthy people keep all their money will result in their spending (and not sequestering) that money in the most logical, economically beneficial and appropriate fashion, and that will benefit everyone in the nation.


How do Trump's gold-plated toilets in his Trump Tower penthouse benefit anyone, even Trump himself? By assuaging his considerable emotional problems that arise from a life-long inferiority complex that causes him to defiantly act out in a bizarre manner? By reassuring Trump that he's not an obnoxious ass-clown, but that he's The Biggest Winner?



Trump and his foul ilk should be heavily taxed, so that they can't afford gold toilets, and so that national infrastructure, public services, public education and investment in research for the future can be appropriately financed.

THAT is how to make America great again.



the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jun 30, 2016 - 07:28pm PT

Was a young trump the Hamburglar? Hair is very similar.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 07:49pm PT
I hate to say it, MadBolter1, but that hamburglar looks a little bit like that guy in the Ammon McNeely WOS movie.








Now then, back to bashing Trump . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 30, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
I thought a little noise could be nice once in a while
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 30, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
The Mind of Donald Trump

Narcissism, disagreeableness, grandiosity—a psychologist investigates how Trump’s extraordinary personality might shape his possible presidency.

By Dan P. McAdams
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/the-mind-of-donald-trump/480771/

A cardinal feature of high extroversion is relentless reward-seeking. Prompted by the activity of dopamine circuits in the brain, highly extroverted actors are driven to pursue positive emotional experiences, whether they come in the form of social approval, fame, or wealth. Indeed, it is the pursuit itself, more so even than the actual attainment of the goal, that extroverts find so gratifying. When Barbara Walters asked Trump in 1987 whether he would like to be appointed president of the United States, rather than having to run for the job, Trump said no: “It’s the hunt that I believe I love.”

Researchers rank Richard Nixon as the nation’s most disagreeable president. But he was sweetness and light compared with the man who once sent The New York Times’ Gail Collins a copy of her own column with her photo circled and the words “The Face of a Dog!” scrawled on it. Complaining in Never Enough about “some nasty shit” that Cher, the singer and actress, once said about him, Trump bragged: “I knocked the sh#t out of her” on Twitter, “and she never said a thing about me after that.” At campaign rallies, Trump has encouraged his supporters to rough up protesters. “Get ’em out of here!” he yells. “I’d like to punch him in the face.” From unsympathetic journalists to political rivals, Trump calls his opponents “disgusting” and writes them off as “losers.”
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
The First Lady would be a libidinous exhibitionist? Who goes out naked in public, pointing a gun at people?


I guess that's one way to distract foreign heads of state while shoving protectionist trade agreements down their throats.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 30, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
looking through the crystal ball to decipher code talk and speaking in tongues, but always demonstrating their uselessness.

You trolled in a net full of dead head fish here Jimmie. Now please clean up the stinking mess.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jun 30, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
These are for the Trump fans
they have been very excited about having such a hot first lady.
She was/is a model, so it's all fair game.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jun 30, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
She would definitely distract their heads

guess that's one way to distract foreign heads of state while shoving protectionist trade agreements at them.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
Melania is the Magician's Assistant, misdirecting the audience's attention away from Trump's tiny fingers as they work their way into other people's pockets.




Melania initially rebuffed Trump's crude advances, because he was at the party with another woman.

They came to some sort of agreement later on.








Hi there. Would you go to bed with me for a million dollars?

Ooooooooh. Sure. Get me out of this dress and into a dry martini, Big Boy.

Well, how about I screw you, and then I give you twenty bucks and a subway token?

WHAT THE HELL???? What do you think I am? A cheap prostitute?

We've already established that you are a prostitute. We're just haggling over your fee.







From the look of Craig's photo above, it seems that their domestic arrangement requires Melania to wear a stainless steel chastity belt whenever Trump is not around.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 10:52pm PT
^^^^^^^^^ Einstein's definition of crazy: Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jun 30, 2016 - 10:59pm PT
i'd argue that both candidates have support that is based in less security than would be overall typical and this is likely going to be an entertaining cycle as the chaotic quality that trump brings, means he's likely going to keep throwing whatever pie he can get his grubby little fingers on at the nearest wall, in the hopes that it/something will stick, right up until voting day.
nahOOO

did you purposely leave out the fact that Cliton is a woman, and that there will be many who will vote undiscretionalary upon this fact alone? Especially the millennial women. Trump actually just spewed that he doesn't even care about the Men's vote's! He's now going after all the women's pie he can eat, heat, bake, persuade?

i guess now he'll be called a woman chauvinistic pie eating pig. lol


it's looking like hillary's almost seventy year odyssey towards being leader of the american people, continues to get more tantalizingly close by the day...

she might be 70, but how many years do you really think she's actually thought of being a president? i'd bet a cheesebuger it wasn't even her idea!

my complaint of her is that nothing she actually say's seems like her idea's

If it's a woman we want, why not Melania? i'm sure she can do everything hillary can!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 06:04am PT
A Jane Doe filed charges on June 18th that Donald Trump raped her in 1994 when she was 13. I assume that Klimmer had been meaning to post this but simply forgot. The "mainstream media" has not reported on this at all.



Her account is being corroborated by a witness:



It looks like she filed civil charges previously in California but they were thrown out: http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/


It should be noted that Epstein has previously settled charges of having sex with underage girls and has ties to Bill Clinton. This could be messy all around.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:11am PT

Speaking of perverts
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:19am PT
So, Moosie, what does it say? I gather it is something about somebody's stem being gnarly.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:20am PT
Double standard much, pyro?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:58am PT
We have to use the same strategy that the Republicans use against Hillary for Trump

We need to use something like this sentence before the word Trump in every post

"Pathological Liar, child rapist, corrupt, serial philanderer, bankrupt King, con artist, racist, bigot, did we say rapist? narcissistic idiotic loser" Trump

I can add some more descriptive words, like morally bankrupt, ethically challenged, mob connected, psychopath, perv, hate monger, etc...


and the next time I hear about Benghazi or the e-mails, I will just assume that the poster is even more brain addled than Klimmer.

Why?
Because Bush and the Republicans are complicit in over 8,000 American deaths, and they used an RNC private e-mail server for all Gov. business, then deleted 3 million e-mails when questioned.
When an investigation puts them in jail, then you ask questions about what Hillary did which was 2000 times less criminal.

So STFU.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:22am PT
Although I will straight up admit that it was incredibly stupid for Bill and AG Lynch to meet privately on her plane to discuss "grandchildren and golf".

F*#king stoopid. Could we have thrown the evil repugs and conspiracy nuts a juicier piece of raw meat? F*#king stoopid to give them giant cannonballs to ram up our ass.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:22am PT
Why The New Child Rape Case Filed Against Donald Trump Should Not Be Ignored

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-bloom/why-the-new-child-rape-ca_b_10619944.html
Lisa Bloom

An anonymous “Jane Doe” filed a federal lawsuit against GOP presumptive nominee Donald Trump last week, accusing him of raping her in 1994 when she was thirteen years old. The mainstream media ignored the filing.


If the Bill Cosby case has taught us anything, it is to not disregard rape cases against famous men. Serious journalists have publicly apologized for turning a blind eye to the Cosby accusers for over a decade, notwithstanding the large number of women who had come forward with credible claims. And now history is repeating itself.


1) Consider the Context: Mr. Trump’s Overt, Even Proud Misogyny

The rape case must be viewed through the lens of Mr. Trump’s current, longstanding and well documented contempt for women. Men who objectify women are more likely to become perpetrators of sexual violence, just as one with a long history of overtly racist comments is more likely to commit a hate crime.

Mr. Trump has relished calling women “dogs,” “slobs” and “pigs,” and cyberstalked and derided journalist Megyn Kelly for having the temerity to ask him to defend his own words. He threw out the most misogynist of attacks, attempting to undermine her professionalism by accusing her of menstruating. He’s cruelly ridiculed the appearance of a female opponent (Carly Fiorina) and an opponent’s wife (Heidi Cruz). His campaign even openly acknowledged that it disqualified all women for consideration as his vice-president.

Mr. Trump has a long history of debasing women he’s worked with, crossing the line on a regular basis. He’s taken lifelong joy in objectifying women, including his proclamation: “Women, you have to treat ‘em like sh#t.”

2) More context: two prior sexual assault court claims have been made against Mr. Trump

But Mr. Trump has been accused of worse than just misogynist language. Two prior women have accused Mr. Trump, in court documents, of actual or attempted sexual assault. (Mr. Trump denies all the allegations.)

Under oath, Ivana Trump accused Mr. Trump of a violent rape.

First was Ivana Trump, Donald Trump’s first wife, who said under oath in a 1989 deposition that he had violently attacked her, ripped out her hair and forcibly penetrated her without her consent. According to the Daily Beast, she claims he was wildly angry that she’d referred him to a cosmetic surgeon who had botched a “scalp reduction” job (to cover a bald spot) and caused pain in his scalp - hence the vindictive yanking on her hair. At the time Ms. Trump said she felt “violated” by the alleged “rape.”
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:27am PT

Although I will straight up admit that it was incredibly stupid for Bill and AG Lynch to meet privately on her plane to discuss "grandchildren and golf".

F*#king stoopid. Could we have thrown the evil repugs and conspiracy nuts a juicier piece of raw meat? F*#king stoopid to give them giant cannonballs to ram up our ass.

+1

Does Lynch even play golf?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:36am PT
Yeah. That was a huge boner by them both, that's for sure.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:37am PT
Does Lynch even play golf?

Pretty sure she doesn't lead.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:46am PT
It's just another conspiracy BS news story
That's all the right wing have to use
BS stories about nothing
they can make it into major headlines and bash it over Hillary's head


It's truly pathetic that it's all they have to run on.

They sure don't want to talk issues.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 09:01am PT
The Real Pocahontas Would Fu#k Trump's Sh#t Up

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/

Presumptive Republican presidential nominee and a man wearing mongoose pubes for hair, Donald Trump, has been especially proud of one of his jokes. It's where he calls Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts "Pocahontas" because of Warren's previous statements that she is part Cherokee. "Pocahontas" is an Indian. Warren claims to be Indian. So...humor? Like an as#@&%e dad at the dinner table every Sunday, Trump repeats this line as if he just wrote the world's first knock-knock joke. And, of course, the inbred piglets at his rallies laugh and encourage him when they're not sticking their fingers in their asses and sniffing them.

Of course, facts are to Donald Trump like penicillin is to syphilis, but at the end of the day, calling Warren "Pocahontas" is pretty much saying she's a bad-ass worker who brought sh#t-tons of business to the shores of America, which was what Pocahontas did in real life despite being kidnapped and likely raped by white people, all before she died at 21.

Ha-ha-ha.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 09:06am PT
Did I miss it here?

Trump sure didn't. Can we get an Amen for some charges against Bill Clinton for jury tampering and/or illicit sex with a public servant.

I can understand him not wanting to use that email server, but he must be getting old. Forgot about the telephone?



Addendum: OK I found it.

Gowdy's kid Duece is convening an investigation as your read this. Subpoenas are being issued for all the Attorney General's emails (and phone records).

Shades of John Mitchell.

People have to know, if my AG is a crook and John is no crook.
-"Dick" Nixon

Is this incident "more than it seems"? Was Bill Clinton wearing a wire so he get dirt on Loretta (not the one in the Beatles song).





survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 1, 2016 - 09:19am PT
It smells way better than Trump's bigot ass spew CoZmic.

At least they're real administrators with real clues about real complex problems, and governing....
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 09:30am PT
I don't have to like Hillary to vote for her

I vote to stop right wing tyranny, and the destruction of the country, along with higher wages, equality, pro education, science, strong environmental regulations

which Republicans are against
they think people are getting paid too much!!

That means vote I against the Republican which means vote for the one person that could beat the fascist they are running,

which this year = Hillary
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jul 1, 2016 - 09:31am PT
Although I will straight up admit that it was incredibly stupid for Bill and AG Lynch to meet privately on her plane to discuss "grandchildren and golf".

F*#king stoopid. Could we have thrown the evil repugs and conspiracy nuts a juicier piece of raw meat? F*#king stoopid to give them giant cannonballs to ram up our ass.

Not only stupid .... It's flat out is a violation of the law. Obamas AG broke the law... now what the heck is HE going to do with her????

this is getting Really fun
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 09:34am PT
I'll care about the AG meeting with Bill after we start caring about the SCOTUS going to Koch Parties and Thomas's wife being a paid Tea Party activist.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 1, 2016 - 09:37am PT
dirtbag

climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 09:42am PT
Curious...which law was broken?
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jul 1, 2016 - 09:44am PT
The law of averages.




I'm sorry, but Trump is an ego driven fool who thinks he can rule....ah, I mean run, this country.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 1, 2016 - 09:57am PT
Trump not only denies climate change, he denies depletion of the ozone layer by CFC, HFCs, etc.

He claims that his apartment in Trump Tower is hermetically-sealed, and that when sprays his hair and releases HFCs, they remain forever inside and therefore can't affect the ozone layer.

Trump also claims that the ozone layer is "400 miles up". 400 miles is the altitude of a typical low-earth-orbit satellite, where there is no atmosphere at all. The ozone layer is between about 5 and 30 miles up.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/05/20/fact-check-trump-hairspray-and-ozone/84645718/


Trump's blathering about hairspray and the ozone layer finished up with how stupid the rules protecting the ozone layer were. This naturally led him to declare to the assembled coal miners that safety and environmental protection rules are also stupid and should be abolished.


donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 1, 2016 - 10:43am PT
Arrest, hmmm.....sometimes I feel nostalgic about adobe walls with bullet holes.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 10:47am PT
Curious...which law was broken?

I'll check with Deuce Gowdy, but I'm guessing it is Newton's Third Law.




k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 1, 2016 - 11:03am PT
George Washington being carved into Mt. Rushmore, 1934.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 1, 2016 - 11:05am PT
He better not come to California.

Not if he wants to get fresh avocados.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 1, 2016 - 11:28am PT
Did I miss it here?

Trump sure didn't. Can we get an Amen for some charges against Bill Clinton for jury tampering and/or illicit sex with a public servant.

Did I miss it here?

Clinton and Obama sure did. Can we get an Amen for some charges against members of the Reagan, GHWB and W administration for repeated high treason.

F*#king sex and email escapades vs high treason? Hmmmm. Somehow the latter's years of treason at a cost of trillions of dollars and tens of thousands of lives doesn't quite compare to the former in my book.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 1, 2016 - 11:29am PT
That's what Frank used to say at Devil's Tower... "So much great rock and they wasted it on those heads"

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jul 1, 2016 - 11:45am PT
Curious...which law was broken?


sorry for wall o text....


Meeting with the husband of former Secretary of State Clinton while overseeing the investigation into her private e-mail server and possible civil and criminal violations dealing with mishandling classified emails violates numerous ethics rules.

5 C.F.R. § 2635.101(b)(8) states, “Employees shall act impartially and not give preferential treatment to any private organization or individual.

5 C.F.R. § 2635.101(b)(14) states, “Employees shall endeavor to avoid any actions creating the appearance that they are violating the law or the ethical standards set forth in this part.”

And finally, 28 C.F.R. § 45.2 is the regulation governing when a Department of Justice attorney must be disqualified from a criminal investigation because of a personal or political relationship. Under this rule, Attorney General Lynch is prohibited from participating in a criminal investigation or prosecution if she has a "personal or political relationship" with "[a]ny person or organization substantially involved in the conduct that is the subject of the investigation or prosecution," or any person or organization which she "knows has a specific and substantial interest that would be directly affected by the outcome of the investigation or prosecution."



link for more.... I would say and feel the same way if was BUSH and Ashcroft.... sick of this governmental BS .... they all act like Mafia Dons

http://aclj.org/executive-power/attorney-general-lynch-must-resign
F

climber
away from the ground
Jul 1, 2016 - 11:50am PT
EMAIL!!!!!!!1!!!!!!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 12:54pm PT
Pathological Liar, child rapist, corrupt, serial philanderer, bankrupt King, con artist, racist, bigot, morally bankrupt, ethically challenged, mob connected, psychopath, perv, hate monger, did we say rapist? narcissistic idiotic loser Trump is not doing very good with the Blacks

he has 1% with the Blacks

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 1, 2016 - 01:02pm PT
Guyman - your source is suspect, ACLJ sounds legit until you look at the source. That article is nonsense from a legal ethics view. If the article was accurate how did Bush get away with hanging and hunting with Scalia?

The ACLJ was founded in 1990 by law school graduate and evangelical minister Pat Robertson to protect constitutional and human rights worldwide.

Robertson is whack

[Click to View YouTube Video]
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jul 1, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
About as accurate as the rest of the sh#t that moron spews
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 1, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
No f-ing laws were broken just another excuse for the republicans to waste more money and time attacking the Clintons.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
Can we get an Amen for some charges against members of the Reagan, GHWB and W administration for repeated high treason.

We can pray I spose? I think, however, it too late for them.

Had Nixon already made arrangements for his pardon when he bailed?

Reagan. Dead.

Two Bushes. Is the true story that they are not supporting Trump because Trump would not guarantee them "just in case" pardons, while Teddy Cruz said it was "no problemo" Georges.

Does Hillary already have a pardon or is it just a promise?

Maybe Bill is getting jealous of Hillary's run and decided to throw some gasoline on Gowdy's fire?



healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 1, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
Klimmer - your language - dude, you're like a rabid dog who has lost all control and been given totally over to disease. Facts? Irrelevant. Reality? Revised. Belief? One ring to rule them all.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jul 1, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
That and the fact that Lynch has all but recused herself from involvement in anything Secretary Clinton related.

But, you know, keep it up. I enjoy your satire Klimmer.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jul 1, 2016 - 02:16pm PT
awww, sh#t, he's back. Couldn't give us a break for just one day klimbag?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 1, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
Secret? On an airport tarmac with people everywhere?

Oh god give me a break. Stupid? Yep. Inappropriate? Yep.

Illegal? Doubtful.
Secret? Nope.
You're a walking conspiracy theory looking for the next conspiracy. Tell us more about the ark.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
They attempted to do so by having the FBI attempt a blackout on the meeting.

Apparently then the FBI failed and you want them to investigate?

There is no criminal case and/or judge. If there was you would post the docket number, right.


As I recall William Clinton is a lawyer. Maybe he was meeting to discuss his own "price gouging" charges with Miss Loretta.

Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jul 1, 2016 - 02:53pm PT
he has 1% with the Blacks

ROTFL. Don't worry, I'm sure he'll come around with the "Blacks".

Are we playing rugby here or what?
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 03:12pm PT
According to Willie, he was in Phoenix to play golf on a 108 degree day!

The real question is: Did Willie make a pass at Lo?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 1, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
Here is a video of a Klimmer-clone explaining how the Republicans rigged the NBA finals so that Cleveland would win, and make their convention look good.

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/fa4yt6/the-nightly-show-with-larry-wilmore-mike-yard-s-the-y-files---cavaliers-warriors-conspiracy


healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 1, 2016 - 03:29pm PT
Judicial Watch has been and will always be a joke funded by a few select foundations which funded a lot of the gop's lemming like drive off the fringe-right cliff. In recent years they've mostly been a small pitbull latched onto the Clinton's ankles whenever possible.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 03:31pm PT
Klimner, yes I actually wasted my time to read this. It doesn't show any law was broken.

References: 18 USC §§ 202 – 209; Executive Order 12674 on Principles of Ethical Conduct as
amended by EO 12731; Uniform Standards of Ethical Conduct for Employees of the Executive
Branch, 5 CFR Part 2635; Department of Justice regulations, 5 CFR Part 3801; Department of
Justice regulations, 28 CFR Part 45; Executive branch standards of conduct, 5 USC § 735; and,
United States Department of Justice Ethics Handbook for On and Off-Duty Conduct, 14
Principles for Ethical Conduct:
“14. Employees shall endeavor to avoid any actions creating the appearance
that they are violating the law or the ethical standards set forth in this
part. Whether particular circumstances create an appearance that the law or
these standards have been violated shall be determined from the perspective of a
reasonable person with knowledge of the relevant facts.”
5 C.F.R 2635.101 (b)
“An employee shall endeavor to avoid any actions creating the appearance that
the employee is violating the law or the ethical standards set forth in this part.”
5 CFR 2635.101(b)(14)
Attorney General Loretta Lynch met privately with former President William J. Clinton on board
a parked private plane on the west side of Sky Harbor International Airport in Phoenix, Arizona
on June 29, 2016, according to multiple press reports.
President Clinton is the spouse of Hillary Rodham Clinton, the former Secretary of State, who is
purportedly the subject of a national security crime investigation pertaining to the mishandling
of national defense information processed by Mrs. Clinton’s personal server during her tenure
as secretary.
Additionally, there are press reports that a federal public corruption investigation is on-going
concerning conflicts of interest and abuse of official government office involving the financial
“commitments” to the Clinton Foundation, speaking fees for President Clinton and former
Secretary Clinton’s official acts. President Clinton may be a target of that investigation.
Attorney General Lynch’s meeting with President Clinton creates the appearance of a violation
of law, ethical standards and good judgment. Attorney General Lynch’s decision to breach the
well-defined ethical standards of the Department of Justice and the American legal profession
is an outrageous abuse of the public’s trust. Her conduct and statements undermine
confidence in her ability to objectively investigate and prosecute possible violations of law
associated with President Clinton and Secretary Clinton. This incident undermines the public’s
faith in the fair administration of justice. Simply stated, Attorney General Lynch’s June 29, 2016
meeting with former President Clinton creates the broad public impression that “the fix is in.”
Judicial Watch requests your immediate and thorough investigation of the facts, circumstances,
and appearances of ethical, regulatory and legal violations by Attorney General Lynch in
connection with her meeting with former President William J. Clinton – and that you report your findings and recommendations to the American public.


Needless to say, I did not press the donate button. Come on back when you have a docket number.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 1, 2016 - 03:35pm PT
The rats are jumping ship and abandoning Trump left and right.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-kevin-kellems-colorado-000000679.html

Curt


healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 1, 2016 - 03:41pm PT
Kevin Kellems...aide to Vice President Dick Cheney...

When an aide to Cheney thinks someone's over-the-top stupid you know you've got a serious problem. A rat like him could survive submerged in raw sewage - gotta be bad for him to bail.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jul 1, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
O! now things become clear oh wait
Going'Clear, uhh, well this building sits diagonally across the city street, on
Main Street, from the new police station of a heavily mixed muti-national, Catholic, City
Where We, ( Obviously (arguably-un-cool? no tattoo?) white Married couple) are The minority.
I as a once married never been arrested for more than speeding, never seen out with out each other,
Never ordering drinks or beers , No wine in public,;={ (
un-known to the boys in grey, I am an endangered species, 'round here
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 1, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
Just saw a T-shirt with Trump pointing his finger and Clint pointing a 44 Magnum. The caption was Go ahead. Make America great again.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 1, 2016 - 03:58pm PT
Klimmer, you need to google "ex parte". There is no judge and there is no court proceeding so the term is irrelevant to the facts at hand. But gven your ability to deny the obvious I fully expect you to argue the point. I know, I am wasting electrons. Keep spewing though, odds are you will someday make sense.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 1, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
Keep spewing though, odds are you will someday make sense.

With enough monkeys and enough typewriters...

Curt
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 1, 2016 - 04:01pm PT
With enough alien monkeys and enough typewriters...
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jul 1, 2016 - 04:04pm PT
Maybe the Blacks will turn it around for Trump. Or, I know....the Orientals. Good grief.

Where is Captain Racism when we need him?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 1, 2016 - 04:09pm PT
People of faith believe all sorts of nonsensical garbage....reason and evidence have nothing to do with it. Rest assured, faith is next to impossible to rock with reasonable arguments. Faith is believing something for no good reason.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
If someone keeps repeating the same thing over and over there's a good chance he/she will believe it more strongly. Unfortunately, those to whom it is repeated will believe it less and/or not at all. Eventually they'll just change the channel.
-Mantrarajapada Stotram

dirtbag

climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
Just saw a T-shirt with Trump pointing his finger and Clint pointing a 44 Magnum. The caption was Go ahead. Make America great again

Has Clint endorsed trump?
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jul 1, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
"Winning so much you'll be sick of winning" - his Orangeness
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 1, 2016 - 05:22pm PT
Sheen is on the Trump wagon? Ironically Sheen just bought a house in Rosarito Beach Mexico.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jun/01/charlie-sheen-rosarito-mexico-house-bachelorette/
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jul 1, 2016 - 06:08pm PT
Congertulatiernz




Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
I sure hope you do the Christian thing and support Hillary after she becomes President.

Nothing could be more despicably evil than undermining our Democratically elected President, right?

You have to respect the will of the educated politically moderate majority of voters that want a progressive liberal President.

And not a Fascist Hitler in Chief
or as we call him, Trump...
or "The Donald" a Pathological Liar, child rapist, corrupt, serial philanderer, bankrupt King, con artist, racist, bigot, morally bankrupt, ethically challenged, mob connected, psychopath, perv, hate monger, did we say rapist? narcissistic idiotic loser
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 1, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
ATTENTION: TRUMP SUPPORTERS
commuting to work driving north on HWY 101 approx 5:15Am
I was confronted by what looked Arab or Mexican Road RAGE DRIVER..Multiple items thrown from his vehical quaters and coffee cup. this individual made repeated attempted to SWERVE me outta of my lane.. after 1 mile the individual fled the scene..

Be careful out there Trump supporters these liberals are at an all time LOW..

Gotta love the TRUMP bumper sticker..
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
Donald Trump, a Pathological Liar, child rapist, corrupt, serial philanderer, bankrupt King, con artist, racist, bigot, morally bankrupt, ethically challenged, mob connected, psychopath, perv, hate monger, did we say rapist? narcissistic idiotic loser
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jul 1, 2016 - 06:23pm PT



And to bring it back on-topic, yeah, here's some shots from Oompah Tower

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
Klimmer,
let me know of the latest crime conspiracies about Hillary so I can find the same accusations of actual crimes that Trump has committed

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 06:32pm PT
It's not liberals
or Hillary supporters

that are protesting Trump

It's ANTI-TRUMP Protesters that are protesting and hating people with Trump bumper stickers on their POS

You need to talk to them
not liberals or Hillary supporters
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 06:42pm PT

click on photo for readable version
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
Ku Klux Klan sees Donald Trump as a sign things are going their way

With historic familial ties to the hate based organization, it is no wonder the Klan loves Trump. Klansmen across the nation see Trump's successes within the GOP electorate as a sign their message is getting across.

KKK leader Brent Waller, imperial wizard of the United Dixie White Knights in Mississippi, said stopping immigration — not blocking minority rights — is the Klan's No. 1 issue today.
And other Klan leaders say Donald Trump's ascendancy in the GOP is a sign things are going their way.

"You know, we began 40 years ago saying we need to build a wall," Arkansas-based Klan leader Thomas Robb said.

Despite trying to rebrand itself, the Klan has not stepped away from burning crosses. As the sun set on a warm Saturday in April,Klan members gathered in a huge circle in a northwest Georgia field to set a cross and Nazi swastika afire.

"White power!" they chanted in unison.

"Death to the ungodly! Death to our enemies!"

I guess non-racists are the ungodly, and the hate monger racist nationalists are godly

Just more backwards bubble world right wing delusion
c wilmot

climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
why is every other group of people allowed to be proud of their heritage but not whites?

why are white children taught that they should be ashamed of the color of their skin over what happened long before their birth?
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
yeah, you know come to think of it, white people really are oppressed. I say, White Power! I say, white supremacy today, white supremacy tomorrow, white supremacy forever. Kinda catchy huh?
c wilmot

climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
white people are the only group discriminated against under US law by affirmative action

and how is whites being proud of their heritage 'pushing' it on others?

if thats true than what of black pride groups or La Raza?

c wilmot

climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
VT, CA, NM, and WY

I lived in Taos for a while where I was in the minority. It was an interesting experience for sure. and to be clear- I dont support extremist groups. I just feel the white community is doing a disservice to its youth by teaching innocent kids that they should be ashamed of their skin color over historical racism they dont understand and cant comprehend
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
Brain dead Klimmer? Wow; pot, meet kettle.

And why the Capitals in 'Bovine Dung'?

You never answer the question, but I'll ask again. What will you say when Hillary wins the election? Will you admit god didn't bless the tiny fingered homosexual or just make excuses?

If Trump chooses Newt for second in command, that will be six (6) wives between them. Now that is pretty religious.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
This thread in general & Klimmer's posts in particular, remind me of old Kliban cartoons.









I suspect we need to conclude with a Kliban cat strafing this thread.

Enjoy yourselves.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:51pm PT
c wilmot: can you please name one thing that white people have overcome because they are white?

[and affirmative action is a non-answer as we did not have to overcome that... for all intents and purposes, we did that to ourselves to try to correct historical wrongs...]

ie. if there is no such thing, and i'm not aware of there being such a thing, then any attempts at creating a white pride movement are ultimately rooted consciously or unconsciously in pride over a past that is defined by white people being the dominant oppressor over much of the middle and western parts of the earth for too much of recentish history.

this doesn't mean that we should be ashamed of who we are now, but teaching "white pride" is [without an answer to the initial question and due to the consistency of white people's oppressive past] an exercise in racism, just as the words intrinsically connotatively imply.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jul 1, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
So the "Whites" are going to save Trump?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
The Donald, a Pathological Liar, child rapist, corrupt, serial philanderer, bankruption King, con artist, scammer, racist, bigot, misogynist, morally bankrupt, ethically challenged, mob connected, psychopath, perv, hate monger, did we say rapist? narcissistic idiotic loser.

Is he a Perv?

I would say yes.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
Donald Trump Spent Charity Funds On A Tim Tebow Autograph

A breach of IRS rules? Maybe. A breach of ethics? Definitely

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-charity-tim-tebow_us_57769648e4b04164640fc1f8?section=

Donald Trump appears to have spent thousands of dollars in charity funds to purchase sports memorabilia at a 2012 Susan G. Komen breast cancer fundraiser, potentially violating IRS law and providing yet another example of the faint stench of immorality that often lingers around Trump’s charitable endeavors.

The items in question were a jersey and a helmet, the latter signed by the then-popular NFL quarterback Tim Tebow. And while Trump himself raised the proverbial auction paddle and placed the $12,000 winning bid, research by The Washington Post indicates it was the Donald J. Trump Foundation — not The Donald himself — that foot the bill.

Whether or not this was an explicit breach of tax law hangs on what the presumptive GOP nominee did with the football gear after that January night in Palm Beach, California.

If Trump kept the items for himself, it is indeed a violation — after all, those dollars surely weren’t donated to help a billionaire freshen up his jersey collection. Trump likely would have needed to repurpose the signed memorabilia by donating it to another charity in order to avoid, per The Post, “self-dealing” IRS regulations, “which are designed to keep nonprofit officials from using their charities to help themselves.”
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Well, at least Trump is finally rising some money:

WASHINGTON—In an effort to bolster his campaign war chest after reporting historically low levels of cash on hand heading into July, presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump reportedly raised $50 million at a Thursday night fundraiser dinner in which GOP donors were given the chance to watch him weep for two consecutive hours. “Witnessing Mr. Trump stand hunched over at the dais as tears began streaming down his flushed, contorted face made for a truly wonderful evening, and it was an opportunity I simply could not pass up,” said billionaire industrialist David Koch, a longtime Republican donor who was reportedly one of 200 campaign contributors who paid $250,000 a plate to see the distraught GOP nominee break down into a fit of heavy sobs and occasional moans over the course of 120 minutes in the Grand Ballroom of the Mayflower Hotel. “I know there was incredible demand for tickets to this event, and personally, I would have been willing to pay twice as much as I did to hear him sniffling as he wiped away the tears from his eyes before burying his face in his hands. This was easily the most enjoyable political fundraising event I have attended in decades.” Sources confirmed the campaign is also planning on offering donors who contribute over $5 million the chance to eat dinner alone with Donald Trump while he chokes on a steak.

Thanks Onion.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
Even more fund raising stuff for the Man, although I'm not sure how this will fly with some of the Trumpsters:

NEW YORK—With his presidential campaign facing a historic funding shortfall that has left it with only $1.3 million on hand, presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump was reportedly forced to reduce costs this week by replacing Eric Trump with a cheap migrant son. “In order to keep this campaign running smoothly, I had to find some ways to cut back on expenses, which is why I’ve made the tough but necessary decision to part ways with Eric and bring on Javier as my third-born child,” said Trump at a morning press event, placing his hand on the shoulder of the suit-clad 32-year-old Mexican immigrant while explaining that his newly appointed son, who recently arrived in the U.S. without documentation or a work visa, would assume his former son’s place in the family as the younger brother to Donald Jr. and Ivanka. “Eric has been a very good son and done some great work on this campaign, but the fact is that we need to make some adjustments. By replacing him with Javier, I’m getting a good, hardworking, loyal son at a fraction of the cost. It’s a win-win. Plus, Javier loves being here—you can tell he’s so grateful just to have the opportunity to be a Trump.” The presidential candidate added that although he appreciated Javier’s productivity and work ethic, there would likely be no place for him in the Trump family after the migrant son’s seasonal election work ends in November.

Again, thanks for the super info from The Onion. (The Onion is sort of like a reverse Klimmer source, so I hope they cancel. Although, after about 10 seconds thought, I realized the Onion is way more intelligent than Klimmer's youtube sh#t, so I guess they won't. Cancel that is. That means, Klimmer, that if two forces meet, the stronger one will prevail. It's sort of a physics thing, like Fund's First Law of Opposition: If you push it hard enough, it will fall over)
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:26pm PT

Michael Savage: 'Trey Gowdy Should Be Impeached For Wasting My Time' On Benghazi

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/michael-savage-trey-gowdy-should-be-impeached-wasting-my-time-benghazi

Conservative talk radio host Michael Savage mocked Rep. Trey Gowdy, R-S.C., yesterday after Gowdy’s Benghazi Select Committee released a report that offered no new information about the 2012 attack.

“Trey Gowdy should be impeached for wasting my time!” he fumed. “He promised us a lot! Remember?”

He added: “He had a Benghazi hearing three months ago and it was an embarrassment. Hillary turned them into idiots. Trey Gowdy. Here he is again now, $80 million later, what did he find out? Nothing other than what we knew already.”
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:29pm PT

dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:38pm PT
Tramp's new theme song...cwilly has prolly heard it before

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
I lived in Taos for a while where I was in the minority. It was an interesting experience for sure. and to be clear- I dont support extremist groups. I just feel the white community is doing a disservice to its youth by teaching innocent kids that they should be ashamed of their skin color over historical racism they dont understand and cant comprehend

I'm not aware of anyone teaching children that they should be "ashamed".

It sounds like you are advocating hiding the past from these kids, not allowing them to make up their minds. Not what I'd call liberty.

I imagine that you'd not want the Germans teaching about WWII, and you must LOVE the Turks denying the genocide, no doubt to spare their children.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 1, 2016 - 09:12pm PT
Klimmer, the guy is a self serving as#@&%e. Get a grip.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 1, 2016 - 10:07pm PT
thank you all for truly making a difference

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jul 1, 2016 - 10:10pm PT
Hillary never had crowds and the draw of so many people like Trump.

OMG! The self aggrandizing, the blatantly false statements. Klimmer IS Trump!

Just like when Trump pretended to be his own publicist. Now he's created this alter ego to promote himself on the taco.... Klimmer!!!11
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 2, 2016 - 05:11am PT
Klimmer, you do understand that Hillary beat Bernie? It is votes that count, not big crowds.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 05:32am PT
Klimmer posted
The Judicial Watch is requesting an investigation from the IG of the DOJ, and cited why. Yes they broke the law. AG Loretta Lynch needs to recuse herself.

They only broke the imaginary law that they always break. The one that keeps conspiracy theorists minds churning. It was a stupid thing for them to do both politically and to maintain the appearance of prosecutorial independence. The fact that Lynch immediately recused herself of any discretion in bringing forth charges puts the matter to rest from the standpoint of the case itself.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 05:33am PT
c wilmot posted
white people are the only group discriminated against under US law by affirmative action

and how is whites being proud of their heritage 'pushing' it on others?

if thats true than what of black pride groups or La Raza?

Welcome, friend. What's your Stormfront username?
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jul 2, 2016 - 06:36am PT
The Washington Post just did a long article on Doonesbury cartoons that predicted & mocked his presidential bid, starting 29 years ago.

The cartoons are remarkable for how well Trudeu foresaw what is now happening.

A mockery.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2016/06/23/how-doonesbury-predicted-donald-trumps-presidential-run-29-years-ago/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_1_na
IT’S EASY to forget that many of the headlines surrounding Donald Trump’s current campaign were strikingly foreshadowed. But a stroll down the past three decades of “Doonesbury” can read like a road map to the billionaire’s 2016 candidacy.

A Trump run for president? Check. “Doonesbury” first had that covered nearly 30 years ago.

Campaign references to Trump as sexual being? Double-check. The comic strip was dishing that satire back in the last millennium.

Trump University shenanigans? You betcha. Cartoonist Garry Trudeau was on the case more than a decade ago.

And Trudeau’s new book, “Yuge! 30 Years of Doonesbury on Trump” (Andrews McMeel), which arrives in early July, shows the degree to which The Donald himself has been telling us for decades what was on his long horizon.

In some cases, the Pulitzer-winning “Doonesbury” was responding through humor to the headlines of that time. In other cases, the left-leaning Trudeau was plying sardonic hyperbole that doesn’t feel quite so exaggerated now, as reality outpaces cartoon fiction. And in all cases, the main takeaway seems to be: Love it or hate it, embrace it or berate it, we all should have seen this coming.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 2, 2016 - 07:42am PT
Trump, the establishment candidate
Everyone of his early proposals have been reversed into pure right wing Republican establishment, even Torture!

The hypocrisy at the heart of Trump’s campaign
Paul Manafort

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-hypocrisy-at-the-heart-of-trumps-campaign/2016/07/01/b8939d10-3f7f-11e6-80bc-d06711fd2125_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-f%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Manafort’s inspiration, which Trump has embraced, is to portray Clinton as the embodiment of the establishment. But Manafort (not unlike Trump) has been the voice of the wealthy and the well-connected for four decades, building a fortune by making common cause with the world’s most avaricious.

Among Manafort’s boasts: representing kleptocrats Ferdinand Marcos, Mobutu Sese Seko and Kenya’s Daniel arap Moi, defending Saudi Arabia’s interests against Israel’s and Pakistan’s against India’s, and making the case for a Nigerian dictator, a Lebanese arms dealer and various and sundry Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs. He successfully lobbied to arm a Maoist rebel in Angola, needlessly extending fighting that killed thousands.

It’s Manafort’s right to represent dictators and thugs and regimes that torture. He has, for decades, helped autocrats who battle human rights and democracy. But now this man, who made his fortune helping the rich and powerful get more so, is setting up a general-election campaign that portrays Trump as a man of the people and Clinton as the captive of special interests.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 07:43am PT
Donini posted
People of faith believe all sorts of nonsensical garbage....reason and evidence have nothing to do with it. Rest assured, faith is next to impossible to rock with reasonable arguments. Faith is believing something for no good reason.

That is true in many ways, however I would add some nuance:

Most of humanity believes all sorts of nonsensical garbage, on the one hand,
while having religious faith does not exclude reason and evidence in one's daily life, on the other hand.

Most political campaigns spew nonsensical garbage and the hyper partisans of those campaigns exhibit religious like faith.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 07:45am PT
One dollar. I bet you one dollar I can get Hillary elected in a landslide AND gut the GOP.

Sucker bet, huh?

Hillary Clinton is the favorite to win in November at odds of 4-11, according to the online bookmaker Ladbrokes — meaning you’d have to wager $11 to win $4
5-5-2016


Put a Trump in your tank, or don't

Tesla driver killed in autopilot crash was watching ‘Harry Potter’
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 2, 2016 - 07:50am PT
Fox News wants Hillary to win
They will make millions on Hate

The calls for impeachment will be non-stop!!!

poor souls, I already feel sorry for their displays of stupidity.

Street polls have found people that don't know why Hillary isn't in jail already!

These people will be in perpetual state of hate for their president, which will just create more extreme division between the parties.

Is there any way these people will come around and stop the Hillary hate?
and learn to respect her?

I hope so, but I really doubt it will happen.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 2, 2016 - 08:28am PT
It is the drool of zombies walking around in their stupid minds that nourish the roses for the rest of mankind to smell....
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 2, 2016 - 08:35am PT
Werner...do you realize you are close to 26,000 posts on these forums, mostly calling people stupid.


Just a few words of wisdom from the duck.

Ready for Donald ?
You nutcases have been hypnotized by Donald Trump, Hillary and the whole stupid media circus You've become stoopid drooling zombies staggering around in your stoopid minds. Everything you see you project this mindless cesspool of stoopid politard garbage onto the world. You can't even see t... WBraun
Jul 1, 2016
04:38pm PST The cost of BASE
We only live once Biggest stupidest mistake of gross materialism is the illusion that "We only live once". "Life" never ever dies ......... WBraun
Jun 30, 2016
04:52pm PST Tuolumne cell coverage beta
The cell tower is right next to the Tuolumne SAR cache.... WBraun
Jun 29, 2016
08:34pm PST The cost of BASE
If you die doing B.A.S.E you'll come back as a bird. Now you have devolved and have to evolve back up again. It very rare to come to the human form which is the springboard to escape. But most remain stupid and think it's all in all. Only Papillon jumped off the cliff into the ocean and ... WBraun
Jun 29, 2016
03:59pm PST Ready for Donald ?
Sterile, stupid bitter old man with zero life ^... WBraun
Jun 29, 2016
09:47am PST romulan warbird - lost gear
There's no climbers on this forum. Just stoopid politards talking about Trump .......... WBraun
Jun 29, 2016
07:55am PST New Yosemite Valley traffic regs
You're a nutcase ^^^^... WBraun
Jun 28, 2016
10:17pm PST The cost of BASE
Modern mankind is dead, robotic, soulless and sterile of dead end materialism. These street sadhus are searching to revive their life again. Without being alive what's the use? Instead just babbling and drooling as a stoopid politard about Trump all day seems to be all some have .........
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 09:03am PT
Dingus posted:
Apparently it does (exclude reason) for elective processes.

To play Devil's advocate:
What if I was visualizing Hillary when I posted that religious faith does not exclude reason in one's daily life?
By admitting that, maybe I exhibited a belief in nonsensical garbage? ;-)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 2, 2016 - 09:30am PT
Why is it that the Republican presidential candidates are always portrayed as god - fearing , patriotic underdogs...? The mainstream media is having a tough time dressing Trump up for this role what with his potty mouth attacks on women and ridicule of handicapped Americans...Pure comedic genious...
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 09:35am PT
Income, not net worth.

My advice is to try to get into the top 1%.


And hire a good Taxman or politician

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 10:00am PT
Did Klimmer just post a lone polling company's (that has a known bias towards Republicans) poll history as "proof" of Trump's inevitability?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 2, 2016 - 10:40am PT
Swallowing virtually anything - who knew it was an art form?
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 2, 2016 - 10:45am PT
Loop holes will be done away with I would imagine

And once the wily fox has outsmarted the House and Senate and passed comprehensive tax reform (something not done in decades) he will turn his negotiating smarts to the Middle East and craft a deal that will bring Peace on Earth.

And magical ponies for all the kids (and all the kids at heart).
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 2, 2016 - 11:32am PT
Loop holes will be done away with I would imagine.

You imagine much.

Curt
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 2, 2016 - 11:43am PT
Raising the minimum wage is a sure fire way to bring labor intensive manufacturing jobs back. D-g works in mysterious ways
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 11:53am PT
Here's a little thought experiment for JEL and others economically inclined.

Suppose by some weird circumstance Trump's economic "policies" were to be implemented and a world-wide depression ensues.

Who is benefitted/harmed most? The wealthy or the "less wealthy".

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 2, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
Hillary is planning on finishing some America ruining business for Obama. Turns out these are being stockpiled in the Walmart tunnels..........

Better vote for Trump.
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jul 2, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
Frequent stops is pretty damn funny and man if that's not the truth

They might want to start stockpiling semi tractor trailers
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 2, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
Trump wants to raise the minimum wage and tells Americans' they need to work harder for less pay...Which is it...? Trumps talking out both sides of his mouth just like stalin did...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 2, 2016 - 12:48pm PT
Here's a little thought experiment for JEL and others economically inclined.

Suppose by some weird circumstance Trump's economic "policies" were to be implemented and a world-wide depression ensues.

Who is benefitted/harmed most? The wealthy or the "less wealthy".

Aren't we already in a bit of a pickle already? But I suppose it could get a lot worse.

The problem is the way you pose your question. Who would benefit if Hillary failed? WHo would benefit is everybody failed?

The wealthy will always be fine. But who will lift the most out of poverty and gov't reliance?

Who would keep the staus quo, and who would steer us into a better direction? A direction of fiscal parity, or even wealth (as a nation)?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 2, 2016 - 01:02pm PT
Trump in Satanic Cult, according to cult members

Members say "he's been in our cult for decades, this isn't new news"
some say that they saw him eat baby puppies!
"he would wear the sacrificial goat head, and we would chant "Satan, Satan save us"

The Trump campaign has no comment.

http://www.huffingtonpost.trump_satanic_worship_cult
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 2, 2016 - 01:15pm PT
Trump caught in field having sex with Donkey, video"

Farmer catches Donald Trump having sex with his Donkey, he videos the encounter as Trump runs into the bushes. The farmer tells the media that this is the third time this week he saw Trump, so brought the camera for the video evidence.

Several offers to buy the video have been rejected.

The Trump campaign has no comment.

http://www.foxnews/512%6=id.trump.donkeysex
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 01:18pm PT
The problem is the way you pose your question.

NO. The problem is the way you choose to answer.

No one has proposed or intimated that anybody's policies, but Trump's, would have as even a remote consequence a world-wide depression.

Scan through and check out JEL's posts here.



Norton

Social climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
“Cause I like kids. I mean, I won’t do anything to take care of them. I’ll supply funds and she’ll take care of the kids. It’s not like I’m gonna be walking the kids down Central Park.”

D Trump
Norton

Social climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
I'll win states that aren't in play. I'll win states that the Republicans don't even think of. And one of them that comes to mind ... is New York. Upstate New York I'm like the most popular person that's ever lived virtually.

Donald Trump, on CNN's State of the Union
Feb. 21, 2016
rmuir

Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Jul 2, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
"…I'm like the most popular person that's ever lived virtually."—some rich as#@&%e, on CNN's State of the Union, Feb. 21, 2016

Herr Drümpf lives in a virtual fantasy world, in his own mind. Actually.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 2, 2016 - 02:07pm PT
Trump has finally done it. He has fulfilled his demonic destiny.

Trump is now channeling Adolf Hitler's hatred of jews.



Trump used a hexagram (Star of David) as a derogatory symbol in an anti-Hillary tweet.




https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-tweets-apparently-anti-000000428.html



bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 2, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
No one has proposed or intimated that anybody's policies, but Trump's, would have as even a remote consequence a world-wide depression.

Scan through and check out JEL's posts here.

I've heard the theories. All of them. Ask yourself what policies would shift the dire direction we're headed?

When you've propagated bad policy for 10 years, it's going to take a little pain to get things turned around. And then headed in the "correct" direction.

I think Trump's policies are bold and what we need right now. The tariffs are a non-issue for a while. We'll have to see who wants to be "fair" in their trade with us.

Hillary is more of the current direction.

EDIT:
Trump used a hexagram (Star of David) as a derogatory symbol in an anti-Hillary tweet.

It's red too!

zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 03:14pm PT

I've heard the theories. All of them. Ask yourself what policies would shift the dire direction we're headed?

I'm sure you have all kinds of reasons why you say the future look dire.

I'm not interested in them. I was asking John what he thought about a certain set of predictions.

I think Trump's policies are bold and what we need right now.

Luckily for the U.S. and the world, that is just your thought experiment.

Trump will never be the president and no one else would even consider the "solutions" he's advocating.






zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 03:21pm PT
Obama, Lynch, Bill C. and all the rest of the Dems Admin are in Crooked HilLIARy's back pocket. No matter how guilty she is, she won't be indicted.


And just wait till she's elected. If she's got that much power now, then what can you say, but more power to her. Maybe she'll offer Trump a new TV show. They need someone to fiddle with the balls like Vanna White only oranger.


http://media.graytvinc.com/images/powerball88.jpg
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 03:24pm PT
Klimmer - Regarding the Clinton paternity issue. The below link is from TIME magazine. It is a reputable news source, unlike th trash receptacles you pull your "news" from.
NEW YORK: Bill Clinton has been dogged for years by the rumor that in Arkansas he fathered a child of an African-American prostitute. In 1992 the tale was flogged by the tabloid Globe. But it really took off last week when news leaked that the tabloid Star was conducting DNA tests to confirm or refute the rumors once and for all, provoking a frenzy of speculation in Washington after the story leapt, in the usual fashion, from the Drudge Report to the New York Post to papers around the world.

Using the Starr Report's FBI analysis of Clinton's DNA as its reference, Star paid former prostitute Bobbie Ann Williams, the source for the Globe article, and her 13-year-old son for their story and blood samples. And the result: "There was no match. Not even close," says a Star source. (The Starr Report contains sufficient data to make a valid DNA comparison to rule out paternity.) But if the tabloid was disappointed by the results, it's putting up a good, Brill's Content-ready front. Says editor in chief Phil Bunton: "We investigate dozens of stories every week, and if they don't prove to be true, we don't run them."�


http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,18010,00.html?iid=sr-link1
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 2, 2016 - 03:33pm PT
I say no charges against Hillary, because she is not guilty, just like all the other times the republicans have failed to prove any wrongdoings.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 2, 2016 - 03:44pm PT
Republicans on this thread...hypocrites to the core.

nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:07pm PT
hey cosmic... have you read up on the head of the fbi?

because comey is the one person that keeps me from thinking as you do [that there is no way, given who is in power, that hillary will be indicted]... and so i'm sure he's the one person that is keeping the backers of hillary up at night, as well...

so while on the surface that plane meeting is hard to read [was it innocuous mutual socio-political buffoonery as they claim, was it a clintonian trap to try to extend the investigation by undermining lynch's position and possibly even having her replaced, was it an exposed attempt at collusion, etc.] so far, what it is doing, is placing more authority in comey...

which, if you're a hillary supporter, is not something that you want.

because comey is the guy who:

 during the bush administration, while acting as attorney general [when ashcroft was hospitalized], first refused to agree to the white house's pressures to certify aspects of the nsa's domestic surveillance and then when card and gonzales went to the hospital to pressure ashcroft personally, comey headed to the hospital as well to continue to push back.
 was the one who went after martha stewart.
 was a special deputy council during the senate whitewater committee. his and his fellow investigators report said this about the clinton's: their destruction of documents, amounted to “far more than just aggressive lawyering or political naiveté,” and it constituted “a highly improper pattern of deliberate misconduct.”
 as an attorney, successfully prosecuted marc rich for tax evasion. on his way out bill clinton, pardoned marc rich, and it was about this that comey had the following to say to congress: "i was stunned"



point being, as far as anybody in the chattering class appears to know or say, he's nobody's, republican nor democrat's, bitch...

so while there are very strong reasons to believe that nothing will come of the investigation, there are also reasons to have a little faith in the system, regardless of what the fbi finally determines.

because if anybody has legitimate evidence as to why comey is a compromised figure, they certainly haven't succeeded in getting it out there, and they are going to have to have something big, because he has amassed a track record that points to his being a man of the law, rather than a tool of politicians...



regardless of what a person believes about clinton's innocence or lack thereof, a person would be hard pressed to write a better screenplay about this years presidential election...

or if someone did, most focus groups would probably be like, nah that shIts too far fetched:

 one of the two presumed remaining presidential candidates has been under a year long fbi criminal investigation and most people don't care?
 the head of the fbi, has been part of in depth investigations of the candidate 20ish years ago?
 the husband of the candidate under investigation is having a strange house of cards styled meeting, for god knows what reason, on a private plane sitting on the tarmac, with the present attorney general, who is ultimately responsible for whether charges are pressed?
 not to mention the thousand or so true to life points of trump's story that would be completely unbelievable if they were passed off as fiction.



who needs hbo when you've got real life, ever unfolding political theatre like this!
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
heh, heh, comey...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:13pm PT
Saying that Bill and the current Attorney General of the USA were just shooting the breeze when their airplanes happened to land at the same airport is probably the most gourmet bullshit the public has been fed in a long time !

Exactly. And people aren't f*#king stupid either. They're tired of watching elitist scum get off when you or I would be ravaged by the legal system.

She's going to pay this time though. Bill f*#king knows it too, hence, the meeting.

If there are no charges, there will be profound repercussions. The straw and the camels back and all...
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:14pm PT

Exactly. And people aren't f*#king stupid either.

f*#king yes they are
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
dikhead, you're not going to start trolling me are you?

Leg-humpers are tiresome and sad.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:22pm PT
Jim wrote: Saying that Bill and the current Attorney General of the USA were just shooting the breeze when their airplanes happened to land at the same airport is probably the most gourmet bullshit the public has been fed in a long time !



I say they were shooting the breeze but then I'm not that well informed like you, Pryo, Cosmic and Blue on the matter.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:28pm PT
I say they were shooting the breeze but then I'm not that well informed like you, Pryo, Comic and Blue on the matter.


Really? Wow. Just shootin' the breeze....

Hey Jim, your Canuck MoP doesn't like that bad of an offense. Compared to what American politicos appropriate in the name of 'doing the job'.

The fisherman is nothing. There must be more if he resigned.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
Klimmer posted

Jul 2, 2016 - 10:35am PT
Trump says taxes on the wealthy could increase during his presidency
He also said he supports an increase in the minimum wage

And his tax plan had the largest tax cut for the rich of any of the plans proposed by any of the candidates. His rich guy tax cut was so yuge, you'd have to eliminate Medicare and nearly every single government agency except defense to pay for it without borrowing.

That's the great thing about Trump. He's like the Bible. If you have a position you can find evidence he's supported it at some point.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
When it comes to conflicts of interest involving public people, the public perception of facts is as important as the judicial logic in weighing their case.

Remove the words "of facts" and you're absolutely correct.

Curt
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
Better add the FBI and CNN to Hillary Clinton's list of dominoes.

Within the next two weeks or so, the expectation is there will be an announcement of no charges being brought against Clinton so long as no evidence of wrongdoing emerges from her interview with the FBI, sources familiar with the investigation told CNN.

CNN has previously reported no charges were expected to be brought against Clinton because the investigators had not found evidence to warrant charges, according to multiple law enforcement officials. A Democrat close to Clinton said Saturday the campaign believes the FBI will announce its decision before the conventions.


Holy sheeit General Custer, where'd that endless bunch of Indians come from?



donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
I've been voting for half a century and I have seen some lame candidates but every one of them had at least a few redeeming qualities.....Trump has absolutetly none. He is the most unqualified person to seek the office of the presidency in modern times.
He is xenophobic, narcisistic , racist, ignorant, pompous......the adjectives just keep coming.

The scary thing is that so many white, mostly male, Americans support him but then they are largely xenophobic, racist and ignorant. I'll leave out narcissistic and pompous.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
Jim wrote: Hey Curt,

Facts are very easily acquired these days. Being a "liberal" and thinking that no one else who holds your values can think, is hilarious.


So you have the "facts" on the meeting...right? Hilarious.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
A take other than Trump's on “something very beautiful.”

The phone call came late one night in 2008.

Elie Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor, renowned writer and Nobel Peace Prize winner, listened as his son told him that Bernie Madoff had been arrested for swindling millions of dollars from unsuspecting investors. In addition to their savings, Wiesel and his wife Marion had also lost $15 million for the Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity, an organization they had founded together to promote tolerance and equality.

After Wiesel put down the phone, he turned to his wife, he later told Oprah.

“We looked at each other, and our reaction was, ‘We have seen worse,'” said Wiesel, who survived Auschwitz concentration camp, where he was sent when he was 15. “Both she and I have seen worse.”

Word soon spread that the foundation had been hit by Madoff’s scheme, and Wiesel described what happened next as “something very beautiful.”


“All of a sudden, we began receiving hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of letters and donations, small donations, from all over America, Jews and non-Jews,” Wiesel recalled to Oprah. “The American people are so generous…. We received hundreds of them, and that helped us.”

Wiesel, who died on July 2 at age 87, concluded that his goal following the Madoff swindle was not to change his outlook: “It didn’t make me more pessimistic.”
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 2, 2016 - 05:12pm PT
Jim...fishy no, smart no.

They have known each other for over 20 years. You can make whatever you want out of it.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
Trump Faces Lawsuit Accusing Him of Raping 13-Year-Old Girl


Trump is facing questions about a federal lawsuit in which a woman accuses Trump of raping her in 1994 when she was only 13 years old. The lawsuit alleges Trump raped her at a party hosted by billionaire Jeffrey Epstein. Epstein has been jailed on charges of soliciting sex from a minor and has paid out dozens of settlements over allegations of sexual assault at his infamous parties.


Yes, ^^^
Void of ethics or morality.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 07:03pm PT
I've been voting for half a century and I have seen some lame candidates but every one of them had at least a few redeeming qualities.....Trump has absolutetly none. He is the most unqualified person to seek the office of the presidency in modern times.
He is xenophobic, narcisistic , racist, ignorant, pompous......the adjectives just keep coming.

The scary thing is that so many white, mostly male, Americans support him but then they are largely xenophobic, racist and ignorant. I'll leave out narcissistic and pompous

Yep, donini.

I respected every other person who ran or was elected who I didn't vote for. I always believed they did or would do their best to at least uphold the dignity of the office.

Trump's actions and statements are routinely freakishly appalling. I could not respect him at all. I would be deeply ashamed to have him represent our country.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 2, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
ELECTION 2016
CNN REPORTS NO CHARGES AGAINST HILLARY
Sources say announcement comes in 2 weeks following FBI interview
Published: 3 hours ago

Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2016/07/hillary-interrogated-at-fbi-headquarters/#QG4Myx7IaXcrzHDQ.99


There you go. The fix is in.

There you go. There is no crime.

Curt
dirtbag

climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 07:20pm PT
I don't see how anyone isn't deeply embarrassed by his campaign. He's the worst.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 2, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
Hey Curt,

Facts are very easily acquired these days. Being a "liberal" and thinking that no one else who holds your values can think, is hilarious.

Sorry if I don't value the "facts" reported by Brietbart and Fox as much as the next guy. To each his own, I guess.

Curt

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 2, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
Yet you want to send "Billary" back to The White House.

As soon as possible.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 2, 2016 - 07:34pm PT
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 2, 2016 - 07:41pm PT
Yeah, the old line of guaranteed wealth thru modeling and acting if only you'll let me gratify my yugeness...Same old sh#t.. trumpet and epstein were too lazy to fly to asia and get their jollies where it's still legal...But wait , he believes in jesus...ha , ha, ha....
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jul 2, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
You know either way this goes,Trump or Hillary,somebody is going to win,trouble is,it will not be the majority of Americans.

Remember That.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jul 2, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
100 million dollars? Hate to say it but that kind of f u c k s up her credibility right there.

If there's enough proof to award her a hundred million dollars it should be enough proof to throw his ass in prison
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 2, 2016 - 08:51pm PT
Obviously they were f*#king and talking about Bengazi. Thanks for your service Klimmer
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 2, 2016 - 09:48pm PT
The man is insane.

http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/trump-says-he-ll-report-back-on-evidence-for-clinton-server-claims-711609411779

zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 3, 2016 - 08:45am PT
Shouldn't the FBI be investigating both Lynch and Trump right now (and Clinton, Bill - why not)?

Trump for trying to interfere in an FBI investigation

It is impossible for the FBI not to recommend criminal charges against Hillary Clinton. What she did was wrong!

The ST "Grand" Jury has already documented Lynch's mz-demeanors ("She breaks just like a little girl"), but then maybe everyone should just defer to Klimner's point of view.


BTW Klimner, have you read through the emails to check them for 1) Authenticity 2) Top secret information?

I thought that was what the FBI was doing.

You better watch out you may be next on the FBI "to investigate" list.




It's gonna be a rough go investigating Clinton and Lynch though since there were no witnesses to the discussion other than [apparently] Lynch's husband.

I wonder if Loretta has one of those John Mitchell secret recording systems installed in the plane.





rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 3, 2016 - 10:09am PT
I wouldn't be a bit suprised if Bill was doing Ivanka and involved in another cover up...You can't keep a good man down...
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jul 3, 2016 - 10:50am PT
you also can't down a good man unless he's up
c wilmot

climber
Jul 3, 2016 - 11:26am PT
Seriously ?

you compare him to a child molester?

the political discourse in this country has become very childish

zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 3, 2016 - 11:58am PT
The Katie Johnson case was dismissed May 2, 2016

No trial occurred. The question of whether there was rape is still open

Trump's co-defendant is described as billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein Good VP pick?)

“Even construing the … pleading liberally, Plaintiff has not alleged any race-based or class-based animus against her, and consequently, her … allegations fail to state a claim upon which relief may be granted,” the judge wrote.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 3, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
Werner wrote: No it's become totally stupid.

Most of these Hillary brainwashed politard nutcases here are total goners, morons .....


Almost 26,000 posts by you Werner, your obsession with Crankster is a little over the top as is your constant insults towards liberals. Get a fecking life dude.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 3, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
"As is yours towards conservatives. Get a fecking life, DUDE."


Three children, married 42 years to the same woman, 25 new routes in the last four months, updating my Boulder Canyon & Shelf RD rock climbing guides and three trips to other countries in the last eight months.


I'll take your advice. LOL
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 3, 2016 - 12:45pm PT



A civil suit against Donald Trump alleging he raped a 13-year-old girl was thrown out in California in May 2016 and refiled in New York in June 2016.


It's here:

http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/





monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 3, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
Klimmer knows Trump can't win without Clinton getting charged, hence his desperate use of Fox News personalities.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 3, 2016 - 03:06pm PT
So it looks like that star of David /Hillary tweet was taken from a white supremacist website.

Trump and the staff members who did this are pure garbage.

This sh#t is indefensible.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jul 3, 2016 - 04:26pm PT
Waking people up wakes up voters for Trump.

zzzZZZZzzzz



Susan
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 3, 2016 - 04:48pm PT

Trump's Star of David image about Hillary Clinton was apparently taken from a neo-Nazi, white supremacist, anti-Semitic website. It appeared on June 22, 2016, over a week before Trump retweeted it to @realdonaldtrump.

Two hours after posting the image, Trump took it down and replaced the red hexagram with a circle.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-star-david-tweet-neo-000000601.html




This is the website where the image was originally posted:

https://8ch.net/pol/index.html


That website has since been updated to remove the image. An archived copy of the website with the image is here:

http://archive.is/E0Dto

The earlier posting appeared on 6-22-2016, near the bottom of that archived webpage.




Here is a screenshot of the archived page. Notice some of the language on that page.






EDIT:

This will be Trump's next Twitter message:




bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 3, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
I'm ready to help Make America Great Again.

F*#k it! Let's go global and make the world a better place, man!!!!

Who with me??!!?! Woo-hoo!!!

Anybody check out my boy, Ben Carson, and his new 'do? Dude's fired up!!!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 3, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
So Trump gets the benefit of the doubt, but Bill and Hillary never do. I think I understand now, it is Klimmer-Think
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 3, 2016 - 06:15pm PT
Lois is back in full force.
mrtropy

Trad climber
Nor Cal
Jul 3, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
Killer why can't you spell god?
rmuir

Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Jul 3, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
that can by some people be taken wrong and inappropriate, they take it down, fix it, and then repost, problem solved

Uh, no. Major fail. It wasn't an accident or an oversight. Herr Drümpf is a ficken rassistisch; make no mistake about it.

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/07/03/proof-racism-accidenttrump-retweeted-white-supremacists-75-times.html
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 3, 2016 - 07:28pm PT
Take the short cut and read the buch Mein Kampf. Trump himself doesn't read but he has a bunch of losers interpret stuff for him.



Only the Jew knew that by an able and persistent use of propaganda heaven itself can be presented to the people as if it were hell and, vice versa, the most miserable kind of life can be presented as if it were paradise. The Jew knew this and acted accordingly. But the German, or rather his Government, did not have the slightest suspicion of it. During the War the heaviest of penalties had to be paid for that ignorance.

Industry, technology, and commerce can thrive only as long as an idealistic national community offers the necessary preconditions. And these do not lie in material egoism, but in a spirit of sacrifice and joyful renunciation.

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 3, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
I don't doubt for a minute that Hope Hicks and the rest of Trump's media crew scour the internet for material for Herr Drumpfkopf to retweet. And, I don't doubt that many people send in photos for him to retweet.

Trump is the least original, most derivative person in politics. All of his "great" talking points are recycled garbage that he has obtained by dumpster-diving into the rubbish bin of history.

It is quite obvious that most of Trump's material comes from other people.


But, retweeting an anti-Semitic message is just as bad as posting it for the first time.


Are Drumpfkopf, Hope Hicks, and the rest of his crew too lazy or too stupid to filter out the blatantly racist and bigoted images?

No.

Trump and Company are racist and bigoted, and they post offensive images because they believe that is an appropriate thing to do.



bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 3, 2016 - 07:38pm PT
Here's DJ's latest twitter feed;

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 5h5 hours ago

I believe that Crooked Hillary sent Bill to have the meeting with the U.S.A.G. So Bill is not in trouble with H except that he got caught!
3,616 retweets 10,958 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 5h5 hours ago

The SECRET meeting between Bill Clinton and the U.S.A.G. in back of closed plane was heightened with FBI shouting "go away, no pictures."
4,505 retweets 11,525 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 5h5 hours ago

Does anybody really believe that Bill Clinton and the U.S.A.G. talked only about "grandkids" and golf for 37 minutes in plane on tarmac?
4,618 retweets 12,217 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 6h6 hours ago

"THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED!"
6,016 retweets 14,627 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 6h6 hours ago

On Saturday a great man, Elie Wiesel, passed away.The world is a better place because of him and his belief that good can triumph over evil!
3,731 retweets 12,735 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 6h6 hours ago

Crooked Hillary Clinton knew that her husband wanted to meet with the U.S.A.G. to work out a deal. The system is totally rigged & corrupt!
5,899 retweets 15,616 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 6h6 hours ago

Only a fool would believe that the meeting between Bill Clinton and the U.S.A.G. was not arranged or that Crooked Hillary did not know.
6,384 retweets 17,399 likes
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 9h9 hours ago

Just watched @meetthepress and how totally biased against me Chuck Todd, and the entire show, is against me.The good news-the people get it!
4,516 retweets 14,989 likes



Good stuff!
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 3, 2016 - 07:49pm PT
Trump twittted


I have to agree, one out of eight is pretty good for Trump

On Saturday a great man, Elie Wiesel, passed away.The world is a better place because of him and his belief that good can triumph over evil!

Obviously ghost written though. Trump had no idea who Mr. Wiesel was.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 3, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
Obviously ghost written though. Trump had no idea who Mr. Wiesel was.

My man just can't win with some people.

EDIT: Jimmy, everybody's talking about his tweets with the stupid SoD on it. I thought I'd throw out his latest.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 3, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
Sigh.

Klimmer, I had made a promise to myself to never react again to your bullsh#t, but here I am............

Has it ever occurred to you that you accept all reasons why Der Trump is not responsible for what he says but all others are? Keep drinking the Kool-Aid. You should read your posts with a neutral mind; you'd be shocked.

Trump re-tweets (the archived web site stuff is absolutely clear about this) Nazi Jewish bullshit and you don't see a problem with this? Aren't you Jewish? You should be furious. I am.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 3, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
OK blue, you busted me. I have no idea whether Trump knew who Elie Wiesel was.

I will look into it and report back.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 3, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
I would not be surprised to learn that Trump, like Saddam Hussein before him, uses surgically-altered body doubles to do his speaking for him.

Hope Hicks writes Trump's twitter feed. She is his press secretary.

Trump gets all his "great ideas" from other people.


To Wit:

Trump got his import-averse economic platform from a previous century's demagogue who also had a funny haircut.

Trump's regressive economic plan to "build a wall", restrict imports, abandon free-trade economic treaties and make America economically self-sufficient comes to us, via the Trump Time Machine, all the way from 1920's Germany.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/lo/countries/de/de_trade.html




1919-1932: Exports decline to 15 percent of GDP in the late '20s. Foretelling the Nazi goal for self-reliance, Hitler writes in "Mein Kampf," "[W]e are finally putting a stop to the colonial and trade policy of the prewar period and passing over to the territorial policy of the future."

1933-1944: The Nazi regime aims for economic self-sufficiency (autarchy) through industrial policy and bartering for raw materials with nearby states. The shift away from trade-oriented growth, together with the global depression, contributes to a fall in trade to only 6 percent of GDP in the late '30s. Once war begins, occupied territories are exploited for raw materials and labor.


When Hitler's economic plan for self-sufficiency failed, the Nazis resorted to an atavistic imperial military campaign to seize territory from other nations. Five years later, Hitler was dead in his bunker, and Germany was rended and in ruins.

What is Trump going to do when his recycled Mein Kampf economic plan backfires, the way it did 75 years previously?

Tear down his own wall, and invade Mexico? Or invade Canada?




Notice that the post-war shift away from Hitler's isolationist "self-sufficiency" led to rapid economic growth, despite the total destruction of Germany's industrial infrastructure. Germany's presence in the European Union was a major factor in that country's economic success.




1950-1956: Germany joins the European Coal and Steel Community, a free-trade arrangement that will develop into the European Union. Increasingly open trade in Europe and the world helps Germany's rapidly growing export economy. A long period of consistent trade surpluses begins.

1957-1970: Germany helps found the European Economic Community through the Treaty of Rome in 1957, boosting Germany's export economy. Germany's famed engineering prowess allows production of high-quality manufactured exports that drive the economic miracle. Exports rise from 17 percent of GDP to 24 percent in 1970; trade surpluses will persist until 1990.




Trump is a witless buffoon, rehashing failed economic plans and other disastrous ideas that he has gotten from moldy books that he found in his grandmother's attic.


Trump is as non-progressive as politicians get.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 3, 2016 - 09:05pm PT
Almost 13,000... Keep this thread productive guys. Good stuff here.

Can we get any line on how many posts will exist here by November before Hillary's coronation?

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 3, 2016 - 10:00pm PT
Trump wants to bring back jobs to the U.S. True.


False. He could have had his Trump products made in the USA, bringing back jobs, but did not do so. He's a billionaire, he could afford it.

What is true is that he has said it, because you want to hear it.



He wants to renegotiate our trade deals with the world. They need to be more fair. True.

False. He wants to use the leverage of the US to bully others into terms that are more slanted. That is not fair, but biased. He will eliminate the provisions that prohibit child labor, and require a living wage, because that is fair for the "darkies".




He wants our borders secure and controlled. True.

False, our borders are secure and controlled. But by making you afraid that they are not, you love him coming to your rescue.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 3, 2016 - 10:21pm PT
Trump wants to bring back jobs to the U.S. True.

False. He could have had his Trump products made in the USA, bringing back jobs, but did not do so. He's a billionaire, he could afford it.

What is true is that he has said it, because you want to hear it.


Exactly.

Trump doesn't care about creating jobs in America. He only cares about saying what people want to hear.

Trump is a handshake-dullard shape-shifter used-car salesman who adapts himself to what he perceives his buyer wants to hear. He is perceptive, cunning, wily, deceptive and sociopathic.


Trump doesn't pay extra money at Mar-a-Lago to employ snotty white punks from West Palm Beach. He pays as little as possible to waiters, busboys and dishwashers. They are mostly immigrants, some of them in the U.S. illegally. Trump is such a cheap, chiseling weasel, his employees have to sue him in court to get paid.



Trump was in West Virginia, speaking to a bunch of unemployed coal miners. He was talking as if the Power of Trump would bring back the coal industry's heyday, perhaps through a magical Christ-like resurrection of long-dead steam locomotive technology.

(Trump is a closet Steam Punker . . . . . )



I am waiting for Trump to babble his retrospective nonsense to unemployed textile workers. Then, it would be much clearer that Trump is a lying sack of sh#t, because his signature Trump clothing is made in China.


Trump was in Pennsylvania, babbling about bringing back the steel industry's heyday, presumably by blocking imports of Chinese and Indian steel.

I am researching where Trump got the steel he used to build his skyscraper in Chicago that was completed in 2009.

I would bet that the steel was imported. This is based on the fact that the steel for the new San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge came from China (with a small amount from England, of all places). Also, twenty years ago, I saw that rebar and steel fittings for concrete work here in California were made in China and India.

Five-will-get-you-ten that Trump Chicago Tower's rebar wasn't made in the United States.

Ironically, the hotel bar in the Trump Chicago Tower is called Rebar, in case anybody living in Pennsylvania's distressed steel mill towns didn't get the joke the first time, when Trump told it to them in person.



When Trump tells steel workers he will return jobs to their steel mills, he is completely full of sh#t.

If Chinese steel is cheaper than American steel, Trump is going to buy Chinese steel.

Trust me. Believe me. Absolutely. I guarantee it.

nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jul 3, 2016 - 10:33pm PT
here you go fear:

posts per month
total in months prior to jan: 2687
jan: 439
feb: 754
mar: 1555
apr: 1004
may: 2942
jun: 3761

first six months of this year gives a relatively linear relationship between monthly increases [except for some slacking that happened in april]:




using the linear line of best fit and projecting it through to november 8 gives a total of

34797 posts by nov. 8

[this includes a projected 5944 posts in the month of october, if the same ramping up of interest is sustained...]

:)


Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 3, 2016 - 10:46pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Assume March was a bit anomalous and fit the data to an exponential curve.
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jul 3, 2016 - 10:54pm PT
ask and you shall receive:


extrapolating that line of best fit through to nov. 8 gives us:

67207 posts [with 7777 in the month of october or an average of 250 per day during that month]

it's going to be a grind, but we can do it!

this thread is going to be YUGE!!!1!!1!

[Klimmer don't fail us now. we... can't... quit... you.]
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 3, 2016 - 11:11pm PT
^^^^^^^^^ That seems like a better fit.

I used to do a bit of that curve-fitting in school. The business guys, even the MBA candidates, would talk about "linear programming" like it was the Truth, and they would try to have all their economic data regress to straight lines.

If the engineers did that, nothing would work. We had to fit data to very strange, high-order polynomials and transcendental curves like exponentials.




I will have to write a php computer program - Klimm-Er-Matic - to automatically post Trump-based nonsense that has been retrieved from the internet.

dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jul 3, 2016 - 11:19pm PT
Can we get any line on how many posts will exist here by November before Hillary's coronation?

Rimmilk will probably delete all his so the thread should disappear



vvvv artistic licence with klimmer spelled backwards. It is so close I said why not
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 3, 2016 - 11:39pm PT
Rimmilk will probably delete all his so the thread should disappear


RIM MILK - ???????


I'm afraid to ask .. . . . . it sounds related to a Rim-something else.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 4, 2016 - 02:57am PT
Trump may, indeed, be the master skater, when it comes to riding the razor-thin edge between criminal activity and getting away with it. But, that doesn't mean what he does is right, or moral, or the appropriate thing to do.



Trump adds on a 22% gratuity for the food service when he rents out Trump SOHO Tower's banquet room. He figures that he can keep the waitresses' tips for himself, because technically, he isn't the one who hires the catering staff. New York State law prohibits that exact thing from occurring, though. So, the Trump SOHO waitresses are now suing to recover the gratuity income Trump has stolen from them.



Similarly, Trump worked his catering staff at Mar-a-Lago for up to 20 hours per day during an extended Passover event that lasted about a week. The workers were illegally denied state-mandated breaks to rest and eat meals. They were basically on their feet the entire time, running around, making sure a bunch of high-bred, elitist socialites were adequately fed and watered.

Trump (illegally) refused to pay state-mandated overtime wages to his workers. This was despite the horrendously long hours they had worked (presumably because Trump was too cheap to hire extra workers for the event). His workers, again, had to take Trump to court and sue him to get paid for the work that they had already performed.



Any fool can "turn a good profit" if his M.O. is to screw the other people involved in his business.


Jeff Bezos, of Amazon, claimed that the Amazon Prime Now delivery service was profitable. He made a big claim of being "more efficient" than UPS or Fedex, when it came to delivering boxes to people's houses.

That was because Bezos illegally treated his employee drivers as though they were "independent contractors". Amazon shifted the corporation's employee-related tax burden and delivery vehicle expenses onto the employees themselves. They were not independent contractors. The employees had no control of the hours they worked, what clothing they wore, how they performed their work and when they could take breaks. The only independent part of their job was that they independently had to provide their own delivery vehicle at their own expense. According to a lawsuit filed by the drivers, they would earn less than $5.00/hour after deducting vehicle-related expenses. Amazon's ads on Craigslist fraudulently promised drivers $25/hour.

Also, Amazon collected a gratuity fee of about $5 per delivery. But, like Trump in SOHO, Bezos kept the gratuities for himself, and did not forward them to the drivers. Not only that, to ensure maximum efficiency of theft of the gratuities, Amazon insisted that they be charged to the buyers' Amazon accounts, and it was forbidden for customers to pay any cash to the drivers (in contravention of an ancient tradition of how tips and gratuities have been paid). The drivers are suing Amazon to recover the gratuity money that has been stolen from them.


http://www.thenationaltriallawyers.org/2016/01/amazon-prime-now-workers-are-done-paying-the-price-for-fast-delivery/


“Amazon’s mission to deliver ‘Now’ at no additional cost is being funded by its delivery drivers"

 Beth Ross, the attorney representing the drivers.



Naturally, Bezos is the only one who is allowed to exploit people. Nobody gets to exploit him.

The United States Supreme Court ruled in late 2014 that Amazon does not need to pay its warehouse workers for the time they are forced to spend going through security checkpoints at the end of their shifts to prevent warehouse theft. The class action plaintiffs said they spent up to 30 minutes each day waiting in line to leave work because of inadequate security staff and scanning equipment.

Notice that Bezos took the fight all the way to the Supreme Court, rather than accommodate employees with more security staff, or even something as simple as staggering work shifts so that hundreds of workers didn't arrive at a chokepoint all at the same time.



Jeff Bezos sounds like he'd be a perfect vice-presidential candidate for Trump. They're both billionaires. They're both self-centered. They're both good at "working the system" to enrich themselves at the expense of others. They both have secret, insider knowledge of "new" and "better" ways to get things done. They both ignore rules and regulations. And, they both have a self-conferred sense of entitlement that they believe justifies callously stealing from lesser mortals.



10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jul 4, 2016 - 07:30am PT
Klimmer is correct

http://liberaldarkness.com/2015/07/04/gays-are-lacing-fireworks-with-homosexual-chemtrails/
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 4, 2016 - 07:58am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
While the link between fireworks and geo-engineering vis-a-vis chemtrails is well known in the scientific community,

Only if we allow a very broad extrapolation of the term "scientific community" to include uneducated people, non-scientists, and demented and illiterate hoaxers.









THE CLOWN SAYS THAT HE WILL BE BRINGING HIS PRIVATE CIRCUS TO CLEVELAND


Trump is so toxic to the Republican Party, nobody wants to get anywhere near him, and especially not during a televised National Convention. GOP Senators, Governors, Mayors and others who, in a normal year, would be eager to see and be seen on the convention floor, are unable to stomach the feculent stench of this year's soiree. The normal cast of characters is already too ill to climb stairs to the rostrum and address the crowd.

So, there is a big surplus of speaking slots at the convention that none of the usual suspects are going to fill. They'll be staying home, on the other side of the television broadcast, hunched over plastic waste buckets, unable to believe what they are watching. There will be a agitated mob on the convention floor, anxious to hear the GOP Final Wisdom, right before the big election kicks off.

This means that Trump, their Fearless Leader, is going to have to come up with some alternative speakers to fill out the excruciating ennui of listening to King Trump talk about walls, and moats and torture and beheadings.

Trump has assured everyone, in advance, that he has the situation well in hand.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/01/politics/donald-trump-convention-children-speakers/index.html


Trump says that his wives and children "are all going to be speaking" at the convention, addressing delegates and the GOP viewership at home. This is an astonishing line-up, given that Trump's three wives have never been in the same room together. Furthermore, Trump's son, Baron, is only ten years old, but he may be able to explain to the convention (and his father) that the President doesn't have unlimited powers. If the TV networks can keep their cameras focused on Tiffany while Eric is speaking, the world would be grateful.

Trump also says that he has a surprise roster of "very, very interesting" speakers lined up, comprising sports figures, movie stars, business associates, former beauty queens, Apprentice alumni, a Motor City madman, and a handful of fake wrestlers carrying their WWE boss, Vince McMahon. Legendary football coach Mike Ditka is rumored to be on the list of speakers, as is Fox News regular Ann Coulter. Many of Trump's supporters would also like to hear from clueless actress Stacy Dash (who, ironically, was once in a movie called Clueless).


It is safe to say that this year's GOP circus in Cleveland is going to attract the attention of just about every television-equipped person on earth.

It is not going to be politics as usual at the Republican National Convention. It is going to be Trump-centric improvisational street theater, brought under the Big Top for the very first time.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 4, 2016 - 09:03am PT
SCIENTISTS SAY THEY HAVE DISCOVERED BRAIN-EATING AMOEBAS IN OHIO'S WATER

EXPERTS PREDICT TRUMP WILL BE A TREMENDOUS SUCCESS AT CLEVELAND CONVENTION


http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/03/health/high-levels-brain-eating-amoeba/index.html






Hitler used to put meth in the water at his rallies.

For Trump, it's brain-eating amoebas.









http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/01/health/become-a-human-lie-detector/index.html


When someone has something to hide, they will also be more likely to justify what they do say, be on the lookout for a reaction, and use fragmented sentences when they can, according to research conducted by R. Edward Geiselman, professor of psychology at the University of California at Los Angeles.



they will also be more likely to justify what they do say

BELIEVE ME. LET ME TELL YOU. I PROMISE.



be on the lookout for a reaction

AM I RIGHT?



use fragmented sentences when they can

“It’s boring. Although I love Tom Brady — but it’s become soft, like our country has become soft,” Trump said, referring to the Patriots quarterback.

"And I would love to," he continued. "But if I do talk about it, then what happens, is, that takes up -- then we're not talking about the horrible economy."

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 4, 2016 - 10:25am PT
But the image that Trump chose to illustrate his point, which portrayed a red Star of David shape slapped onto a bed of $100 bills, had origins in the online white-supremacist movement

“We’ve been alarmed that Mr. Trump hasn’t spoken out vociferously against these anti-Semites and racists and misogynists who continue to support him,” said Jonathan Greenblatt, chief executive of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL). “It’s been outrageous to see him retweeting and now sourcing material from the website and other online resources from this crowd.”

That was more than enough time for critics and supporters to ask what exactly Trump was doing. On white-supremacist forums, Trump was cheered for apparently declaring his solidarity through not-so-subtle code.

“The evangelicals will listen to his pro-Israel statements, while we will listen to his signals,” Andrew Anglin wrote in the Daily Stormer, a racist site named after Nazi propagandist Julius Streicher’s notorious tabloid. “By pushing this into the media, the Jews bring to the public the fact that yes, the majority of Hilary’s [sic] donors are filthy Jew terrorists.”
c wilmot

climber
Jul 4, 2016 - 10:35am PT
I have a gold star on my "real id"

anyone outraged?
monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 4, 2016 - 10:57am PT
^^^ Everyone of them will be giving speeches at the repub convention. How else will Trump fill the speaking slots? ^^^
dirtbag

climber
Jul 4, 2016 - 11:38am PT
He's such a racist.

Edit: ya know crankster.

If this was a one time deal, maybe not. It could be explained away as an over zealous staff member eager to slam Hillary. That happens.

But every week, it's something new.

His failure to disavow David Duke; the Mexican judge; comments about banning people with hijabs from working at the tsa; his previous retweets of blatantly racist materials from blatantly racist website. I know I'm forgetting dozens of similar incidents.

No: not isolated. He's a f*#king racist piece of garbage dog whistling to other racists.

Any one of the incidents I just described would have sunk any other candidate, republican or democrat. I can only conclude his fervent supporters, including ones here, are racist too.

This election is depressing.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 4, 2016 - 11:42am PT
If Trump needs to fill some speaking slots he might consider Pee Wee Herman and the empty popcorn bag...
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 4, 2016 - 12:17pm PT
Hillary will not be charged with anything. Sorry, Chump.

Donald Trump just heard that Hillary Clinton won’t face charges from the FBI and he went ballistic. Conservatives have been frothing at the mouth over the prospect of Hillary Clinton being arrested and jailed over whatever imaginary crimes they believe she has committed. But after meeting personally with the FBI about her so-called email “scandal,” it is now expected that the investigation will be dropped and no charges will be filed.

This comes on the heels of the Republican report on Benghazi that cleared Clinton of any wrongdoing after four years and $7 million spent trying to find anything to pin on the former Secretary of State.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/07/03/donald-trump-throws-temper-tantrum-after-fbi-doesnt-charge-hillary-clinton-tweets/

Curt
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 4, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/science-isnt-broken/#part2

Here's some good, clean fun (you can't catch a disease from playing along).

Statistically speaking (damned lies), do the Dems or Repubs have a more positive or negative effect on the economy?

The whole article is a very good read about the "reliability" of science. But for our purposes on this thread, just check out the interactive P-value chart near the top of the article. It's about whether "your research" is publishable, but the "research" itself says a lot about statistical "analysis" and interpretation.

Choose your factors and metrics, watch in real time to get the results your "theory" predicts, and employ verificationism to "know" that you were right all along! Good, clean fun.
Bushman

climber
The state of quantum flux
Jul 4, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
Can we get any line on how many posts will exist here by November before Hillary's coronation?

Opinion and Science

Unless you live or work with someone for many years you cannot honestly make a judgement about that person's personality, values, or character.

For those of us (probably everyone that posts on this forum) who don't actually know these presidential candidates personally, our best hope is to vote our conscious in November based upon the candidates performance, experience, and track record at serving the public, however we may view that perspective with whatever limited secondhand knowledge we have allowed ourselves to be informed with.

Any more than that regarding our opinions about whatever these candidates do or say is pure conjecture and I'm surprised at the level of play that the 'climbers' here have given to these otherwise mundane, overly ambitious politicians.

Meanwhile,
I have scientifically determined that posting on these political threads is not healthy for me based upon test results;

My blood pressure this morning at 7:30 am was 122 over 80. After reading today's posts on this thread and after posting here myself it was 135 over 90. Other times that I have read and chimed in here I have tested my BP before and after with similar results.

I'm afraid no amount of political humor or poetry from my corner is going to reverse these test results by all that much so I would be better served spending the time riding my bike.

Footnote;
My mother spent over forty years in public education and earned her doctorate as an educator three years before she died in 2005. In her last job she taught at Azusa Pacific as a professor up until the time she became too ill to continue working.

She also was a member of an altruistic fraternity of educators for many years and traveled to Central and South America, Africa, and China with colleagues teaching educators in other nations new teaching techniques.

She and I had a connection with similar opinions and tastes regarding progressive social democratic reforms, art, science, and philosophy.

That being said, it was my dying mother's fervent hope in her last year on this earth that Hillary Clinton one day be elected to the presidency and we both saw eye to eye on politics. So you can only guess where I firmly stand. May the best man or woman win.

Sayonara,
-bushman
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 4, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
AS Rush likes to say, "He's living rent-free in his head".

Referencing Obama starting to get flustered by Trump's success. Hillary starting to get desperate too.

Obama can not speak off teleprompter, Just listen to him.

"Bah, bah, abha, bah, but I think..." The emperor is wearing no clothes, and he knows it!
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jul 4, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
prolly
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 4, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
Cracker...? This prolly means you're one of those trump racists...
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jul 4, 2016 - 02:03pm PT
^^^^^
Leave up to a Candian to know what's REALLY goin' happen


Susan
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 4, 2016 - 03:02pm PT
The true measure of a man is his family. Donald J. Trump's family is amazing. All good children, respectful, well balanced, kind, hard working, empathetic, and successful. Beautiful wife who is also smart with good morals. He has a great family.

His family truly is a measure of the man Donald J. Trump ...




Joseph and Magda had a very nice family. They presented the perfect picture of domestic bliss, right up to the day they had their dentist inject all the children with morphine, so that Magda could personally crush cyanide capsules in their mouths while they were incapacitated.





Heinrich Himmler was a monster who deluded himself into believing that his nice, decent family conferred similar status on himself.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2546420/Love-letters-Nazi-monster-Newly-revealed-private-papers-death-camp-chief-Himmler-deluded-decent-family-man.html





Charles Manson and his family will be studied by criminal psychologists long into the future.



Ivanka and Donald Jr. have both been implicated as active co-conspirators in some of The Donald's nefarious business chicanery. Both children have been named as defendants in multiple lawsuits by people who have been ripped off, defrauded or otherwise injured economically. In other words, Ivanka and Donald Jr. were cast from the same sordid mold as their father.

To say that Ivanka is empathetic is an erroneous generalization. While she may be a saint to those within a certain social circle, she can be a hard-nosed, callous harridan when conducting business. She once withheld a multi-million dollar payment for diamond jewelry delivered to her NYC business, with the excuse that her AutoCAD design drawings were returned to her one day too late. The small-scale jeweler had to sue the mighty Ivanka to obtain payment. Ivanka's intransigence was intended to harass, annoy and hopefully destroy the small businessman by dissipating his resources with legal fees.

Eric stated that waterboarding and torture were "no different from what goes on, every day, on every campus and in every fraternity house, all across America". In other words, Eric is just as sadistic and callous as his father.


madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 4, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
When I refer to the "frothy left," it's pretty clear from the above that I'm not missing the boat.

When I and many others state that comparing statues to behavior makes it pretty clear that Hillary is a criminal (regardless of what political machinations infect the investigation process), that's called "without merit" and "way over the top." But comparing Trump to the vilest of the Nazis has just become standard fare among the libs.

It's froth, it's nonsense, and it is beyond the pale. Come on, guys, let's ratchet the rhetoric back in quite a few notches. Trump's an epic prick; there's no doubt. But let's back off of the Nazi comparisons, shall we?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 4, 2016 - 04:02pm PT
But comparing Trump to the vilest of the Nazis has just become standard fare among the libs.


I wasn't comparing Trump to Nazis in the family portrait post above.

Klimmer made the fallacious argument that since Trump's family is (allegedly) nice and decent, then Trump must be nice and decent, too.

I gave two famous examples to disprove that false conclusion. I figured people would have some knowledge of those people, given their outsized roles as some of the worst people to have ever lived.


I could have just as easily used pop-tart Lindsay Lohan's father, Michael, as an example of a bad guy (prison time for securities fraud) with a (allegedly) good family.

Or Richard Kuklinski (WHO???) whose family life was so idyllic, that when he was arrested for the mob-contracted killing of 100+ people, his wife and children were truley shocked and amazed to learn what "daddy's day job" really was.

Or Al Capone, who famously posed for photos with his son at White Sox games, the apparently perfect parent when not machine-gunning his business rivals to death in their places of business.




I will accurately compare Trump to the Nazis here, instead.

Trump called for the forcible arrest, transport and relocation of 11 million "undesirables" in order to ethnic cleanse the United States. Trump said that he was going to actually, physically and tangibly make that happen. It was a major Trump talking point throughout the primary campaign season. The only thing missing from Trump's airplane-hangar blatherings was specific details involving heavily armed goons, padlocked railroad cars and tooth-extraction specialists to harvest gold to pay for it all.

Trump has also called for torturing suspects during interrogations, and "even if it doesn't work, they deserve what they get". Hitler, similarly relished the idea of torture, and slow, painful deaths for his enemies. With Eric Trump as the Minister of Truth, piano-wire nooses will come back into fashion after a hiatus of 70 years.

Trump has invoked Hitler's concept of Lebensraum (invading other countries to confiscate their resources), by saying, "I am going to go in there, and I am going to take the oil".

Hitler ordered the construction of a hundreds-of-miles long Atlantic Wall, to keep foreigners from infiltrating his new empire. Trump has also called for a barrier wall, and will certainly see America as his new empire if he is elected.


So, the Trump comparison to Hitler is not tenuous, at all.

Hitler was a Nazi. Ergo, the Trump comparison to Nazis is not tenuous, at all.

Q.E.D.


There is only a difference of degree, and not one of substance.


rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 4, 2016 - 04:17pm PT
I have a friend who is voting for trump because trump is anti sematic and against jewish money-influence in US politics...I don't know if there's any truth to these allegation but there's something more odiferous about Trump...He's the typical rich as#@&%e who will do anything to make a quick buck off of someone elses hard labor...this makes him the perfect candidate for poor voters who are scraping by economically...Stealing tips from employees is the tip of the iceberg for Trump and more proof of his narcissistic personality where one thinks anything he does is peachy keen...
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 4, 2016 - 04:32pm PT
I do see you're testing your excuse when no charges are brought: "political machinations!"

I'm not "testing" anything. I've said from the start that charges would probably not be brought, which, like the OJ trial, will have no relation to the facts of guilt or innocence.

By contrast, let's say that Trump is everything you claim in the way of a white supremacist, racist, etc. That's still light years from being equivalent to the vilest of the Nazis! Being prejudiced isn't equivalent to acting on the prejudice, and the vast majority of bigots in this nation would never imagine to actually act like Nazis. Their behaviors are far more subtle and self-deceptive.

So, your response to my calling your "Nazi" assertions "froth" is to say that I'm "just as frothy" regarding Hillary. Fine. I don't believe that's the case, but your response effectively says: "It's impossible in principle to find any common ground upon which to recognize just how reprehensible BOTH candidates are, which would inform some systematic discussion about the reprehensible state of BOTH parties, given that these are BOTH the 'best' candidates that they can offer us."

So, the nation will become increasingly divided, the parties will continue to rule, we will ALL be the losers regardless of party affiliation, and at least half of the nation will wring its hands at any given moment. Yeah, "democracy" at its finest. Ironically, it has always been thus, and so it will continue to be.

Fruitless discussion; I should not have dipped my toes into this water again. I stand corrected and will now shake them dry once more.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 4, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
It actually makes sense to stop comparing Trump to Hitler. It is a tired, but accurate, comparison that has lost its inherently powerful message of warning. It is now so over-used, that it basically means nothing.

If you repeat the same truth over and over and over, it eventually becomes a lie.



It is more appropriate, at this time, to compare Trump to Charles Manson.


They have both hit upon a strange brew of charisma, prescience and anger that has deflated the IQs of their followers. Their followers are mesmerized by bizarre talk of a future that substantially differs from any reality, except perhaps one within a fictitious parallel universe.

Both Manson and Trump have successfully ordered their followers (the Manchurian followers) to go forth and commit heinous acts of violence against fellow citizens. Even after being widely discredited and reviled, both in court and in the public opinion, both Trump and Manson retain a sizable following of dupes, boobs and slaves who all but worship their respective false messiahs.

Manson, at one time, was a talented musician who attracted the notice of several music producers and even one of the Beach Boys. Then, he snapped and became the world-famous monster that he is today.

Trump, at one time, was a talented real estate developer who attracted the attention of several large investors, including the biggest banks in New York City. Then, he snapped and became the world-famous monster that he is today.



Trump is like Manson.

Manson is like Trump.


This is an example of the Symmetric Property of Reality.

overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jul 4, 2016 - 05:23pm PT
I don't see how anyone thinks he is charismatic he seems barely educated
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 4, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
^^^^^^^^ GOOD POINT ^^^^^^^^^^^

Trump has not yet become like Hitler. He is still just saying that if he is elected, he will become like Hitler.



But, Trump may not follow through on any of it, including the election.


Here is how Trump Lite, the Brexit movement, is handling their electoral success:


http://www.sfgate.com/news/world/article/UK-Independence-Party-chief-Nigel-Farage-quits-8339783.php


The Brexit leadership is jumping ship. They recognizes that they have opened a HUGE can of worms, they have a situation that is beyond their control, and they recognize that their false promises to voters have angered them, and they realize that they must now flee - posthaste - or be torn limb-from-limb.

First it was former London Mayor Boris Johnson who quit the political revolution. He was to be the next Prime Minister. Then, he said he wouldn't run for PM.

Now, its Nigel Farage (rhymes with mirage), the leader of the UKIP party (which headed up the Brexit campaign), who is scurrying like the wharf rat he is, to abandon the sinking Brexit ship and get as far away as possible.



The Brexit debacle has many lessons for astute American voters.

For one, obviously hollow and false promises made to voters, who believed them anyway, can have a disastrous effect.

False leaders, drooling ludicrous campaign lies about the future, will rapidly vanish into the mists when they are revealed to be vaporous charlatans.

Bombastic, nationalistic and bigoted campaign rhetoric is empty and worthless in the real world.

Voters who make rash decisions come to regret those decisions, which may not be reversible.

There will be considerable negative effects whenever a knee-jerk "solution" to a complex problem is attempted.

Cancelling an agreement, such as membership in the EU, typically cancels all aspects, beneficial and obligatory, of that agreement. You can't cancel an agreement, and then expect to continue to obtain the benefits thereof, while shirking the attendant obligations and responsibilities.

Cancellation of large-scale free-trade agreements results in worldwide economic chaos and disruption.



More specifically, astute American voters should recognize that:

Trump's support for Britain to leave the EU clearly shows that he is clueless about foreign policy, trade agreements and other important topics. The Brexit vote is a worldwide economic disaster, right now, and the actual process of Britain's secession from the EU has not even commenced. Trump continues to say that the decision to leave the EU is a "great victory". The full economic disaster of the Brexit vote has not even begun.


Trump has shown a propensity to cut-and-run when things begin to turn for the worse. He has abandoned numerous building projects, leaving buyers and investors divested of their funds. Trump claims to stick with a project, no matter what. But, his track record with building projects, real estate deals, his airline, his casinos in Atlantic City. his marriages, and his various failed consumer products tell a different story.

Trump says he never settles lawsuits out of court, but that is an easily debunked lie, too. He has settled the vast majority of lawsuits against himself out of court, and usually under confidential terms to avoid public scrutiny of how he conducts business.



Brexit leaders fleeing for the door presages a similar trajectory for Trump, as soon as he becomes capable of assimilating reality and recognizes the folly of his proposed schemes.



Brexit is TRUMP LITE


Trump is the Second Coming of Brexit

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 4, 2016 - 05:58pm PT
I would imagine that there is already a SOP for how to handle illegal orders from the top. The military does some dumb azz sh#t sometimes, but the best and brightest leaders manage to float to the top. I can not even imagine there are many flag officers that would vote for Trump, much less carry out an illegal agenda of his. Think General Haig. Okay, maybe we should be worried

When President Ronald Reagan was shot on March 30, 1981, chaos ensued behind the scenes at the White House. With no real protocol in place for such a situation, everyone involved had to improvise and hope that everything would turn out right. In an attempt to keep everyone calm, Al Haig, Reagan’s Secretary of State, committed a PR faux pas — and showed a glaring lapse in basic knowledge of the Constitution — by telling the press that he was in charge while the President was in surgery. Unaware of just how serious the President’s condition really was, key officials began to do their best damage control and keep not only the reporters calm but the country and the world at large.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jul 4, 2016 - 06:15pm PT
I would imagine that there is already a SOP for how to handle illegal orders from the top.

You refuse to follow them, and then you pray that SCOTUS, or the winner of the civil war agrees with you.

In reality, there's a lot less Ed Snowdens out there than we'd hope.

TE
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jul 4, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
Trump is like Manson

Have you been Netflix binging on Aquarius...Good show but not that relatable.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 4, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^ No.

I don't have Netflix, and I don't know what Aquarius is.

I rarely watch TV these days.




I saw the Manson Family trial on TV when I was little. The way Manson was able to brainwash those people has always struck me as very odd, and a very dangerous talent for a nefarious person. His followers were otherwise normal people who would become absolutely stupid, and would soak up Manson's predictive nonsense about a race war that his followers would ignite by killing a movie director's wife and their unborn baby.


Trump is also an IQ-deflating svengali, even if "charismatic" isn't the correct word for how he gains control over his Manchurian followers. Trump called for violence at his rallies, and his followers complied. Trump called for the marginalization of Muslims, and his followers complied. If Trump were to call for the all Muslims to be attacked, his followers would comply. If Trump said that all Mexicans are rapists, and should be killed, his followers would comply.


Trump is just like Manson. He has gained the adoration of a mindless group that worships him, and they will do whatever Trump tells them to do.



The only difference between Manson and Trump is that Trump was born to money, and that money has kept him out of prison.

Manson had no money, so he is now in a cage somewhere out in the California desert.

trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jul 4, 2016 - 07:00pm PT
I am just joking^^^I agree that Trump certainly knows how to manipulate people into believing that he is a god like man. I find it interesting that a lot people think he is a complete idiot, they choose to ignore the fact he created a successful tv show. I would go to say that was his "apprenticeship" with learning how to control people through the tv.

With all that known, I do not believe Hillary is any different. She certainly has a very different approach. I believe that her primary objective is to control the masses emotions and good will for her(and investment partners) benefit. Just like trump.

Clearly I am cynical towards American politics
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 4, 2016 - 07:31pm PT
I don't think Trump is an idiot, except in the sense that he says idiotic things.

He is actually quite dangerous because he is NOT an idiot, but a very intelligent and malevolent person.


Trump can be instructively compared to Ted Kaczynski, the serial killer known as the Unabomber. Kaczynski was a child genius prodigy, entered Harvard at 16, received his PhD in mathematics at 25, and became the youngest professor – of any kind – to be hired by the University of California. A few years later, Kaczynski withdrew to his now-famous shack in the Montana backwoods, and embarked on his decades-long campaign of mailing homemade bombs to people he didn’t know. Later, he coerced newspapers into printing his deranged manifesto about a dystopian future for America.

What made Kaczynski so dangerous was his high intelligence. He was able to anticipate, and design around, the FBI’s tactics for gathering evidence and tracking down the bomb maker. It was only Kaczynski’s irrepressible ego, and the notorious manifesto, that finally led the G-Men to arrest him at his remote shack.

A bomber of lesser intellect (e.g. Timothy McVeigh) leaves useful evidence, and is rapidly identified, captured, and convicted. Kaczynski’s super-brain allowed him to evade capture for almost two decades, all the while killing three people and seriously injuring 23 others. If Kaczynski hadn’t sent his manifesto to the newspapers, the Unabomber would have taken his place alongside Jack the Ripper and the Zodiac in the dark pantheon of serial killers who were never caught.

Like Kaczynski, Trump is (in his own words) “Really, really, really smart”. And, like Kaczynski, Trump has a twisted and dysfunctional vision for the future of America. The difference is that Trump isn’t just predicting social calamity and misery for millions – Trump is taking direct, purposeful action to seize control, and then cause social calamity and misery for millions. In his campaign speeches, Trump promises that, if elected, he will make his demented nightmares come true for everyone, forcing his demonic policies upon the United States and the rest of the world, regardless of what people want, or what is best for society and for the human race.

Trump will extrapolate his own egotistical, self-conferred sense of entitled exceptionalism to the United States, and, like an overgrown playground bully, will use any and all means - including military action - to enforce his will upon any nation that disagrees with him. His business methodology will be adapted to foreign policy, with scamming, defrauding, plundering and cannibalizing other nations being Trump’s top priority. Trump’s has promised all this, and he hasn’t even gotten his boner on.




nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jul 4, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
i dunno, the recent posts to this thread are taking me down a strange wormhole... but here goes nothin'...



saying trump is like hitler, is like manson, or is like kascynski, is an incredibly fUcked up disservice to any one of those three.

trump is, at this point, nothing like hitler, nothing like manson, and nothing like kascynski. and if you disagree, please go read some history and tell me how trump should in any way shape or non-superficial form be compared with what makes those three uniquely diabolical/evil/disturbed...

all three had cohesive [and fUcked up, obviously] visions, and all three of them were clear about those visions, prior to taking action towards those visions.

what was trump's vision prior to entering this election?

if you think there was one you're a fool and have ignored his history, because he's never had one. he just throws 20 things at an audience and whatever sticks, he goes with. if a person is going to be afraid, they should by rights be afraid of some of the american people.

but comparing trump to any of those three?

give me a fUckin' break.



if it can be said, at this point, with a straight face that trump is like hitler, manson and kascynski than it can be said with an equally straight face that hillary is like stalin, pinochet and marcos.




and anybody who believes any of that last sentence needs to give their head a fUckin' shake...

it's this type of rhetoric that keeps some of you cats from seeing the real problem...



and it ain't the fUckin' leaders.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 4, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
The 2nd smartest poster on this thread...
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 4, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
Breaking News!!
Trump appoints Deputy Barney Fife to head his security team

Reportedly asked for Sherriff Andy Griffith but he turned down the offer due to age related illnesses.

Trump tells reporters "I really think having Deputy Barney Fife as my top man for security will bring respectability to my campaign"

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 4, 2016 - 08:53pm PT
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 06:56am PT
As The Donald himself calls it:



"Truthful Hyperbole"

dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:05am PT
So the same user who posted the Star of David/Clinton meme posted this gem:

http://mobile.twitter.com/sarahkendzior/status/750127115446562816

I actually don't think trump is particularly anti Semitic.

But the "it's a sheriff's star not a Star of David" excuse is horse sh#t.

I do think his campaign will pander to the white nationalist crowd to get votes. It also shows that in spite of his promise to hire the best people, he will actually bottom feed to find people who will play dirty.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:14am PT
FBI: CLINTON & STAFF EXTREMELY CARELESS with secret info...
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:15am PT
I do think his campaign will pander to the white nationalist crowd to get votes. It also shows that in spite of his promise to hire the best people, he will actually bottom feed to find people who will play dirty.

Nobody but a bottom feeder would work for the guy.

Curt
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:17am PT
FBI: CLINTON & STAFF EXTREMELY CARELESS with secret info...

FBI: No reasonable prosecutor would bring charges.

Curt
dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:22am PT
Yep she was extremely careless. It was a bad idea all along.

Sloppy, but not crooked.

dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:23am PT
Nobody but a bottom feeder would work for the guy

Yep, all the respectable republicans are running from him.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:28am PT
Laws are only for the little people.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:58am PT
I guess the FBI director there wanted to continue breathing.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:06am PT
Gud one dingus!
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:10am PT
Wonder if Trump can stay out of jail long enough to make it to November

With the Child Rape allegations that have been found to be factual,
The Trump University scam

the other 3,500 lawsuits.

The GOP must be having fits trying to deal with the rapist title

Child Rapist will make America Great Again

and Melanoma is truly the bad person here, enabling a child rapist!!!

payback is bitch

zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:14am PT
So my take is Klimner has been right all along. Just another coverup in paradise.

Sorry though Kilmner, although you won, you still lost.

Same thing is going to happen with Trump. Fire up your keyboard.



Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:15am PT
they want Julian of Wikileaks, they want to extradite him, jail him, beat him, sentence him, and in-prison him for the rest of his life.

who wants to beat him?
Hillary?

Is torture a legal punishment?
No

Your man wants to beat people up, torture them, brutally punish people

America doesn't use forms of Pain and suffering as part of out justice system
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:17am PT
The New Child Rape Case Filed Against Donald Trump

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-bloom/why-the-new-child-rape-ca_b_10619944.html

I personally witnessed four sexual encounters that the Plaintiff was forced to have with Mr. Trump during this period, including the fourth of these encounters where Mr. Trump forcibly raped her despite her pleas to stop.

Tiffany Doe corroborates, based on her own personal observations, just about everything in Jane Doe’s complaint: that twelve year old Maria was involved in a sex act with Mr. Trump, that Mr. Trump threatened the life of Jane Doe if she ever revealed what happened, and that she would “disappear” like Maria if she did.

Tiffany Doe herself says that she is in mortal fear of Mr. Trump to this day:
I am coming forward to swear to the truthfulness of the physical and sexual abuse that I personally witnessed of minor females at the hands of Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein . . . I swear to these facts under the penalty for perjury even though I fully understand that the life of myself and my family is now in grave danger.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:22am PT
Why anti semitic types are drawn to Trump, even though he isn't particularly overtly anti Semitic himself:

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/5/12095130/donald-trump-anti-semitism
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:25am PT
BTW, I believe I informed the group many months back that there would be no indictment of H. Clinton.

However, the book has not been shut on B. Clinton, I bet he snuck a few peeks at H.'s email when she was in the shower with her lesbian lover(s).

I think Bill should ...

Oh well you know the drill
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:26am PT
Fry.... you only post Lies..
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:28am PT
It's the worst kept secret all around New York City

Everyone knows about Epstein's child rape parties

Donald Trump was a regular

He paid huge sums of money for the charges to go away

You need to read "Trump Cash", where he lies about how he's self funded
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:30am PT
When Trump has an apoplectic fit over this and croaks (dies) what is the impact on the 2016 Presidential election if:

1) It's now
2) It's after he is nominated (if he is)

Paul Ryan in 2016. Paul seems to have some incentive to have Trump taken out if he doesn't "pass on".


One of our legal scholars can update on this one please.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:33am PT
I actually don't think trump is particularly anti Semitic.

But the "it's a sheriff's star not a Star of David" excuse is horse sh#t.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt assumed the 6 pointed star was just a dumb mistake.

But what I read was journalists found out the graphic originated on a neo-nazi message site. (Think SuperTopo for nazis). Then was tweeted out. Trumps campaign then got the graphic from twitter. But normally Trump's campaign credits the twitter user, in this case they didn't and they covered up a water mark on the graphic showing where it came from. Then they continued to use it putting a circle over the star, but two points of the star still stuck out. LOL. A presidential campaign can't create it's own graphics? They continue to use one from nazis?

And again this was a chance to denounce racism and hate, but they sidestepped it and blamed "the media" for making a big deal about it.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:37am PT
The CORRUPTION runs DEEP

Lol, the fbi director was a bush appointee.

It sounds like there was some evidence but the intent element was lacking (hence the tongue lashing from comey).

Whatever. She's a female and a Clinton so that is enough to rile up the legions of knee jerk Clinton haters.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:46am PT
...Listen to DA/Judge Jeanine...

Don't you mean, listen to the Fox News personality, Klimmer?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:50am PT
Klimmer is Trump's rabid attack dog

can you believe the hoops he is willing to jump through to bash Hillary and Bill

Give it up Klimbot, it's hopeless

you lost all credibility, we will care about your raving when you show the same concern for Trump's misbehavior, he is a terrible person in person
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 10:05am PT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-email-fbi-no-charges_us_577bb25ee4b04164641097bc?dfbw3ik9



So funny, is Klimmer, pyro and Cosmic going to implode now? We can only hope.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 10:09am PT
Fatty!!!! :-)


How goes it?!??!
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 10:31am PT
Well, looks like the fix was in with the FBI.

Seems unlikely. FBI Director James Comey is a Republican and was Deputy US Attorney General under George W. Bush. Lynch said she would defer to Comey on whether or not to prosecute.

Curt
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 10:36am PT
Lynch said she would defer to Comey on whether or not to prosecute.

Isn' she going to meet him in a hanger first and talk golf?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 10:37am PT
Anything can be made up. You have to be able to prove it in a court of law.

It would be nice if you could at least apply the same standard to both Hillary and Donald. Is that really asking too much?

Curt
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 5, 2016 - 10:43am PT
Klimmers ignorance of the law is stunning. D-g is not impressed
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 10:47am PT
Klimmers ignorance of the law is stunning. D-g is not impressed

It's more his hypocrisy that is stunning.

Curt
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 10:48am PT
Here's lookin' at you KKid

dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 10:52am PT
Trumps campaign then got the graphic from twitter. But normally Trump's campaign credits the twitter user, in this case they didn't and they covered up a water mark on the graphic showing where it came from.

Good point.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 5, 2016 - 10:52am PT
faTTy
who are you voting for, Trump?

You seem like a real trump type person.
He loves the poorly educated
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 5, 2016 - 10:59am PT
Good to know that laws such as this only apply, and have been recently applied, to the little people.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793

Not saying this beloved thread punching bag Donald would be any better... but the criminal warmonger is certainly no 'better' option.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:03am PT
Hillary is no longer under FBI investigation.

John
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:05am PT
Dr. F,

I will not be voting for the fool Trump. Hillary is no better.


How enlightened of you. Good thing you'll be able to keep your personal pride as the country descends deeper in the shithole of MoreBama/Hillary.

Nice.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:06am PT
Hillary is no longer under FBI investigation.

John

Facts don't seem to matter much with Klimmer.

Crut
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:11am PT
They had no facts, Curt. That was the whole problem with the charges.

Very hard to prove intent. Apparently simple negligence is excusable at the State Dept., with regards to handling sensitive docs.

No intent. No charges. Try to sell that to David Petraues. Poor sap.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:17am PT
"No intent. No charges. Try to sell that to David Petraues. Poor sap.'

Poor sap also lied to the FBI. Poor sap also share with his mistress.


He did have intent which shows what little you do know.


dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:18am PT
I hear ya cosmic.

I also think the guy with four bankruptcies would be much more careful.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:22am PT
"I hear ya cosmic.

I also think the guy with four bankruptcies would be much more careful."


She admitted she was wrong/made a mistake, when have you ever heard that from the orange one??
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:24am PT
I can't believe it Fat-T is back.

I'd vote for him in a moment. Just not sure which moment that would be.




Rub - i - o
Rub - i - o
Rub - i - o
Rub - i - o

Inventive, hard working

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:27am PT
He did have intent which shows what little you do know.


If you say so.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:29am PT
I can't believe it Fat-T is back.

I'd vote for him in a moment. Just not sure which moment that would be.

I'd eagerly sport a "Fattrad for Dogcatcher" bumper sticker on my car.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:43am PT
The real criminals....doesn't get any funnier. http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/04/30/fox-news-contributor-who-claimed-hillary-clinton-was-a-criminal-pleads-guilty-to-felony-fraud/



Fecking hypocrites to the core.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:44am PT
Well, Hillary just won a battle, Klimmer. It's done. She will get away with it as usual. Get over it!!!

There is plenty for Trump to offer that varies starkly from Hillary's view of our Constitutional republic. There's a lot of ammo.

Let this go. Let the pundits play with it. Trump needs to focus on how we got here, and what he's going to do exactly to help our country 'progress'.

Hillary will kill her own campaign. She's a nasty person who hates common Americans. It will continue to show. That's why they minimize her appereances, have scripted lines, and guests that make her 'look good'. I don't think it works, but that's just me.

EDIT: Bob's guy above is a real loser. Hypocrite indeed! I just wonder if Bob is an equal opportunity player or not. Do you always call them out, or just the ones not on 'your side'?

I have no problem throwing a conservative rat under the proverbial bus. It really DOES come down to integrity and morality. Live by the sword...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:45am PT
"He did have intent which shows what little you do know.


If you say so.


No the FBI said so, he lied to the FBI, he gave top secret info to his mistress who he was banging while still married.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:54am PT
No the FBI said so, he lied to the FBI, he gave top secret info to his mistress who he was banging while still married.


You're right. David Petraus is a bigger criminal than Hillary Clinton.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 5, 2016 - 12:00pm PT
Well, after reading this:

Several well known attorneys on Fox News have admitted

the only thought that came to my mind was/is soupsandwhich.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 12:00pm PT
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 12:05pm PT
"Bob believes everything he's spoon fed.

He defended Lance Armstrong all the way up till the end when Lance finally revealed he lied all along.

So Bob is a partisan brainwashed fool who's responses are all ultimately worthless just as the rest of the Hillary loons ...."


Coming from someone who thinks a little white man is flying around the skies, pretty funny duck.


Don't you have some books to sell at the local airport??


"He defended Lance Armstrong all the way up till the end when Lance finally revealed he lied all along."


Is that really the best you can do??

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
Nice, dirt. Trump hates when you run stuff like that.

Trump hates handicapped people, AND he mocks them!!!! I do too, that's why I'm voting for him.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
The only relevant part of Klimmer's last post:

"In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here."

Curt
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jul 5, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
soup sandwich, love that one. Military?

heh heh, Comey
dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
Nice, dirt. Trump hates when you run stuff like that.

Trump hates handicapped people, AND he mocks them!!!! I do too, that's why I'm voting for him.

Here it is again:


And again:



One more time, since I know everyone loves photos of this piece of human garbage doing his thing:




Better get used to it.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jul 5, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
he is obviously used to that mouth position

Thanks Klimboob for another wall of text to bypass
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 12:20pm PT
Keep at it Werner, you'll hit 26,000 by tomorrow.


1 - 20 of total 25871 forum postings found.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
It's difficult to live you life in a manner of integrity and honesty. Especially now.

So many people sacrifice much to maintain their integrity. Usually at a great fiscal cost.

At some point, people of honesty and integrity have to ask themselves a very frank question. Why? For what?

This is the question foisted upon my fellow conservatives. A quandry that many have trouble dealing with. As a man of integrity and honesty myself, I ask myself what the hell happened to us?

Weird times. Everybody is so f*#king corrupt that we have to choose the least of many evils. We are spiraling into a bad place. I feel it.

I know a lot of thinking people can SEE it. They know it too. Afraid to say what they see and how they feel. Either way this election goes, we are going to see some "new" sh#t.

It's just a matter of which 'junk-show' you're comfortable with. I know the CLintons, leftists, and the like.

I want to see what Trump does. As a man who loves his family deeply (and likes power too), he seems to have a bigger stake in it all.

And, I think he has more honesty and integrity than Hillary. That's my bottom line. Honesty and integrity.

(still have my Ben Carson sticker on my rig, "I'm with Ben". Always liked his integrity and honesty. Good guy. And he's with Trump).

EDIT: dirt, you think the handicapped dude digs this? He may, just askin'.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
"And, I think he has more honesty and integrity than Hillary. That's my bottom line. Honesty and integrity."


Yes so right, just ask those at Trump U and the contractors he ripped off. Plus the wives he cheated on and the way he talks about women.

But you admire that that Blue, I remember what you posted once about women.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
DIT: dirt, you think the handicapped dude digs this? He may, just askin'.


You should ask Donald this question. He's the one who bullied him.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
Yeah he probably wouldn't mind at all since it is outing the piece of sh#t that mocked him.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
Under a new administration and the appointing of a new Director of the FBI, a new AG, the case can and should be reopened.


I can not wait for H. Clinton to start investigating herself or for her to appoint FAT-T as head of the FBI.

I cannot wait either for FAT-T to start investigating J.E. Hoover

This here weapon looks seriously out of spec for FBI issue. Was JED getting kickbacks from the gun manufacturers. Oh yeah, did I mention he was a gay Presbyterian ?

.

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:11pm PT
And, I think he has more honesty and integrity than Hillary.

how would you know that?
even fattrad knows that trump is a jerk, and a fraud.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:14pm PT
Yes as others are entitled to their opinion of his opinion
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:17pm PT
Heard it from a friend years ago...not sure of the source.

Comey?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:30pm PT
Klimmer certainly understands the American justice system:

She should be found guilty and be indicted for this.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
Republican strategist says FBI's decision not to recommend criminal charges against Hillary Clinton is a defeat for the American justice system.

Oh well, if that's what a Republican strategist said... Hysterical.

Curt
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
Poor little Klimmer
His wet dream didn't come to pass
Hillary is not going to face any charges

What will you do now?
Soldier on? keep up the fight?

What if Hillary wins the White House?
what then?
Will he accept her as your rightfully elected leader?
or will he try and take her down with more evil inquiries that go nowhere?

You know that these evil Hillay haters will continue to lie and smear her no matter what she does, do you want to be part of an evil smear campaign.


What will it be?
dikhed

climber
State of fugue and disbelief
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
Heard it from a friend years ago...not sure of the source.

Comey?

I first heard it from a military guy. Comey is the FBI director I guess that everyone keeps referring to, my child like self can't help it. Nothing to do with your post
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:42pm PT
So the guy that believes in an ark on the moon is now telling us that the entire FBI is involved in a massive cover-up.
I can tell you which one I'm closer to believing.
Thanks Klimmer.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:50pm PT
What if Hillary wins the White House?

Silly question. Klimmer will pray extra hard for impeachment, for 8 long years.

good to see you fatty
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jul 5, 2016 - 01:56pm PT
God's in charge.
We all know he doesn't give us more than we can handle.
Breathe Klink, breathe. It'll be ok.

Susan
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 5, 2016 - 02:19pm PT
G-d hates Hillary
so I can't understand how she can be so lucky, G-d should have put her away years ago

G-d will work through Trump, and after Trump wins, he can do G-d's work and throw all these evil peace nic liberals in jail where they belong, especially Hillary and Bill, they will never see daylight again

and we can all live in a war like right wing tyranny of the right wing nut'z making; torture, killing off the handicapped, be headings of Muslims and infidels, wife beatings, etc.

All we need is Fox News to put a liberal label on you and you are a dead man walking
some gun nut will take you down to make America Great again

Any one that says anything bad about Trump will get G-d's punishment by either death or jail, That's how G-d's rolls

It's G-d's intent to bring on the Fourth Reich,
he loved the third so much, let's do it again using trump rather than Hitler

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 5, 2016 - 02:19pm PT

Bob believes everything he's spoon fed.


werner you should be ashamed bob is practicing how Together were STRONGER..

pensioner bob is a real hoot!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
"werner you should be ashamed bob is practicing how Together were STRONGER..

pensioner bob is a real hoot!"


I have little to nothing in common with you Pyro.


Retired, I work for it, maybe you need to wash a few more windows.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 5, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
No one cares about the servers or what was on them

give it up
it's over
YOU LOST

move on

nothing happened while she was SOS
so it doesn't matter how the e-mails were handled

if she started a war or did some torture, then you could get your panties in a bunch
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 5, 2016 - 02:30pm PT

I have little to nothing in common with you Pyro

you crab! we have climbing in common and taco smack.. and were fb friends soo ha!



Retired, I work for it, maybe you need to wash a few more windows.

36 more years and I'll be a pensioner like you bob!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 02:35pm PT
"you crab! we have climbing in common and taco smack.. and were fb friends soo ha!"


Politically speaking. :-)


Keep at it Pyro, 36 years and you are home free. Unless you vote Trump.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 5, 2016 - 02:40pm PT
bob keep snapping pic of those New Mexico birds.. I just bought a house and cant believe the birds all over I might have to start taking pics just like you.. any hoot...

I was totally stoked about FBI naming Hillary as extremely careless..

some argue by bringing Donald's bankruptcy into picture however who is in the white house!?!
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
Congrats on the house, if you make it down this way I'll take you out for some sweet basalt climbing.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
"That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

Macbeth

Buh-bye Chump
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jul 5, 2016 - 02:56pm PT
Hillary Just Received The Worst Possible News – Putin Is Smiling!
Is Putin a lesbian, too?
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 5, 2016 - 03:05pm PT
How come folks are just now realizing the corruption of the government? The partisan comments are rich in irony and hollow in substance. Whatever happened to objective criticism...you know..

if it quacks like a duck
swims like a duck
and looks like a duck, then?

start simple then move on to harder subjects..?

Cognitive dissonance is the American way.

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jul 5, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
klimmer, if you are a jew, how can you support trump?
http://observer.com/2016/07/an-open-letter-to-jared-kushner-from-one-of-your-jewish-employees/
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jul 5, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
maybe he is Mischlinge?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
This is not over by far.

Neither is the Civil War, to some people.

Curt
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 5, 2016 - 04:14pm PT
"Is Putin a lesbian too?"

Ghost just won the internet for the day!

Don't worry klimmer, everything is going according to God's plan. How could it not, right? I mean he's the master of the universe and all.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jul 5, 2016 - 04:16pm PT
Has anyone else watched the Voltron reboot that's on Netflix?

Perhaps I'm the only one who sees this as both ironic and prophetic?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
House Speaker Paul Ryan doubles down on his hatred of Der Neu Furher Donalt Drumpfkopf:


https://www.yahoo.com/news/house-speaker-ryan-slams-trump-star-tweet-154514736.html?ref=gs



Drumpfkopf's staff has gone rogue, but he doesn't care.



Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 5, 2016 - 04:37pm PT
Judge Jeanine should know all about corruption

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanine_Pirro

Jeanine Ferris married Albert Pirro, a lobbyist, in 1975. The couple had a son and a daughter. In 2000, Pirro’s husband was convicted of federal tax evasion and conspiracy of over $1 million,[6] which was seen as possibly hurting her legal and political career prospects.[7] The conviction was so damning to her political career that she seriously considered resigning from her position as a state D.A. and taking a more lucrative post in the private sector.[8] In the midst of her 2006 state attorney general campaign, Pirro revealed she was the subject of a federal investigation into whether she illegally taped her husband’s conversations to catch him committing adultery.[9] The couple announced they were separating in November 2007 and finalized their divorce in 2013.[10][11]

Pirro received significant political contributions from her husband’s associates—after his release from prison[12]—throughout her numerous unsuccessful attempts to hold higher office.[12] These include numerous contractors and realtors who had done business with her husband.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 5, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
She should be found guilty and be indicted for this.

Usually Klimmer, in the American system we indict first and then find guilty or innocent, not the other way around.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jul 5, 2016 - 04:43pm PT
26 pedophile flights with convicted Jefftey Epstein's

Nice way Jeanne refers to the underage VICTIMS as "bimbos". You toss around the term "pedophile" real loosely and your "work out" heroine (actually big bucks to a plastic surgeon) refers to them as "BIMBOS". Nice touch.

Susan
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
Klimmer really thinks reality Judge Jeanie is a real judge, there is an ark on the moon and Trump is sent from god.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
Paul ryan is a coward.
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
I guess nobody thinks that this isn't racist ?Sometimes symbols, symbolize something. . .
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:13pm PT
You should ask Donald this question. He's the one who bullied him.

Read that. Somebody got "bullied" by a candidate?

What the the hell kind of bullshit are we delving into where "bullying" comes into play?

What's really ironic here, is that it's usually liberals who "bully" people rhetorically.

"you can't say that", "that's insensitive, I'm going to file charges".

Yet so easily "offended" by words. I know the game. You f*#king as#@&%es are NOT really offended by words.

Our spineless leadership falls for it everytime though. Until Trump showed up and told you all to go f*#k yourselves!

Oooh! You can't sat that! that's "offensive".

F*#k you!!
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
JEleazarian posted:
Hillary is no longer under FBI investigation

Comey doesn't need Vladimar Putin to send him Hillary's deleted emails now ;-)
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
What's really ironic here, is that it's usually liberals who "bully" people rhetorically.

You're high.



On another note, how about a child rapist for President?

I personally witnessed the Plaintiff being forced to perform various sexual acts with Donald J. Trump and Mr. Epstein. Both Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein were advised that she was 13 years old.

I personally witnessed four sexual encounters that the Plaintiff was forced to have with Mr. Trump during this period, including the fourth of these encounters where Mr. Trump forcibly raped her despite her pleas to stop.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
Someone is hitting the bottle again?


On another note, I thought the press conference that Comey gave was way out of line, as were some his opinions on the matter, she was either guilty or not guilty.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
JEleazarian posted:

Hillary is no longer under FBI investigation

True, but don't expect Klimmer to notice.

Curt
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:20pm PT
On another note, how about a child rapist for President?

The choice is child rapist for president, or child rapist for first "Lady"?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:22pm PT
On another note, I thought the press conference that Comey gave was way out of line, as were some his opinions on the matter, she was either guilty or not guilty.

Well, in fairness to Comey, that wasn't his decision to make. He was merely trying to explain that Clinton did make some mistakes--but that they didn't rise to the level of being prosecutable.

Curt
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
Larry, are you holding back?

Who are you saying the first "Lady" raped? (This should be interesting.)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:25pm PT
So this is where we're at? Trump is a child rapist?

I'll reiterate that it's usually liberals that grab at desperate strings to dupe the moronic masses. They usually buy it all too. That's why liberals always have to lie to people and distort reality. They have nothing reasonable that sells.

Do you guys really believe that is true?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
Tiffany Doe herself says that she is in mortal fear of Mr. Trump to this day:

I am coming forward to swear to the truthfulness of the physical and sexual abuse that I personally witnessed of minor females at the hands of Mr. Trump and Mr. Epstein . . . I swear to these facts under the penalty for perjury even though I fully understand that the life of myself and my family is now in grave danger.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
there is no way that any outcome of all of this is gonna be any good for Billary or Obama or Lynch. The people know the fix is in. Absolutely corrupt administration.

A much more simple explanation, of course, is that God is protecting Hillary because he wants her to be president.

Curt
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
They usually but it all too.

You go, dude.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
k-man posted
Who are you saying the first "Lady" raped? (This should be interesting.)

26 flights on the Lolita Express? I wasn't there, so maybe Bubba just wanted to make sure these young girls were "handled properly".
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
I like how Klimmer never answers any questions.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
K-man, do you believe that

Also, do you believe that Bill CLinton ditched his SS detail to get on similar flights in/out of Thailand and other places where Bill had his way with girls?

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:32pm PT
Curt, some of his remarks were opinions and not factual.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
Bob any comment on Bill fondling young Asian minority women? Bill loves minorities.

Didn't happen? Doesn't matter if Bill does it. it's just Bill?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Another rat deserts the sinking ship

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/750293518862528512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Funny you ask me what I believe, when you show yourself what you believe. What Bill Clinton did as president is innuendo. What I quoted was a law suit.

As far as I am concerned, I wasn't there. But do I believe Trump could do those things?

You mean the man who is said, “Women, you have to treat ‘em like sh#t.”

"You have to treat 'em like sh#t," Trump told friend Philip Johnson, according to New York.

"You'd make a good mafioso," Johnson replied.

"One of the greatest," The Donald assured him.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Right Klimmer. Read this (sorry all for the wall-o-text). Klimmer, you've said you're Jewish. You don't find this disgusting? I do.


Observer News & Politics
Opinion
An Open Letter to Jared Kushner, From One of Your Jewish Employees
By Dana Schwartz • 07/05/16 1:58pm

Dear Mr. Kushner,

My name is Dana Schwartz and I’m an entertainment writer at the Observer, the paper owned by your publishing company. On July 2, as I’m sure you’re aware (and have probably been wringing your hands about for the last three days), your father-in-law Donald Trump tweeted out an image of Hillary Clinton in front of raining money with a six-sided star declaring she’s the “Most Corrupt Candidate Ever!”

I responded to the meme, calling out its blatant anti-Semitic imagery because people can play ignorant, blame the corrupt liberal media for trying to “get” Trump, but it takes only a basic knowledge of world history or an understanding of how symbols work to see a wall of cash, a Star of David, and the accusation of corruption and not see the subtext.

But deny or play dumb as you might, when I tweeted out my response, my worst fears were realized: his message, whether purposeful or inadvertent, was met with cheers by those to whom that star’s message was certainly clear. Mr. Trump’s tweet was seen as a winking promise to this nation’s worst and most hateful individuals.

Here are just a tiny sample size of the responses I received: (See link below)

A few hours later, Trump deleted the original image and re-tweeted it out, this time with the star crudely covered by a circle (the tips of the star still visible), and a new hashtag: #AmericaFirst. Forgive me if I condescend in any way or explain what you already know, but I’m sure you’ve been busy lately so just a quick refresher: America First was a movement led primarily by White supremacist Charles Lindbergh advocating against American intervention during World War II. The Anti-Defamation League has previously asked that Trump refrain from the slogan due to its overt anti-Semitic implications.
The corrected tweet, with new hashtags.

The corrected tweet, with new hashtags. Donald Trump (See link below)

He and his campaign deny that the image—which had been found, previous to Trump’s tweet, on a white supremacist internet forum—has any Jewish implications at all. Instead of acknowledging the obvious, he and his campaign used it as an opportunity to undermine the free media in the style of the most dangerous regimes in history, and mock those like me, who had been getting strangers on the Internet telling her to put her head in the oven for the past day and a half.

Here are some of the excuses I’ve seen, both from Trump’s camp and Trump supporters:

“It’s available on Microsoft shapes.” There are a lot of symbols you can make on Microsoft Word, and sometimes symbols SYMBOLIZE ideas, concepts, or groups. A cross for instance. I feel silly explaining this to you. This explanation is so inane that I feel so condescending refuting it to you, ostensibly my boss, that it feels insubordinate.

“It’s a sheriff star.” Because users on the white supremacist forums where this image was found were no doubt implying Hillary is in the pocket of the sheriffs. You know, sheriffs. The group stereotypically associated with greed and money.

“He didn’t make it; he’s too busy to pay attention to everything he tweets out.” This is not an excuse for racism. Trump’s twitter account is seen by millions of people, and he is responsible for the message he’s sending to his supporters. Besides, Trump is running for president. Making mistakes because he wasn’t “paying attention” isn’t an excuse that qualifies him for the highest office in the land in any way.

“It was an accident.” Then where is the apology?

These explanations are so facile, infantile in their blatant disregard for context or logic that I can only imagine them being delivered by someone doing so while grinning and winking.

And then there’s the final explanation, the one most frequently cited by Trump’s most “reasonable” supporters on the Internet:

“Trump has a Jewish son-in-law, and granddaughter: he can’t be anti-Semitic.”

Mr. Kushner, I invite you to look through all of those images in the slideshow above, the vast majority sent in your father-in-law’s name. Right now, this hate is directed to one of your employees, but the message applies equally to your wife and daughter.

You went to Harvard, and hold two graduate degrees. Please do not condescend to me and pretend you don’t understand the imagery of a six-sided star when juxtaposed with money and accusations of financial dishonesty. I’m asking you, not as a “gotcha” journalist or as a liberal but as a human being: how do you allow this? Because, Mr. Kushner, you are allowing this. Your father-in-law’s repeated accidental winks to the white supremacist community is perhaps a savvy political strategy if the neo-Nazis are considered a sizable voting block—I confess, I haven’t done my research on that front. But when you stand silent and smiling in the background, his Jewish son-in-law, you’re giving his most hateful supporters tacit approval. Because maybe Donald Trump isn’t anti-Semitic. To be perfectly honest, I don’t think he is. But I know many of his supporters are, and they believe for whatever reason that Trump is the candidate for them.

Who is being "too sensitive" to the message, me or him?

I can’t abide another defensive blame-shift to the media or to “politically correct culture gone amok.” David Duke, outspoken and explicit white supremacist, anti-Semite, and former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, saw the image your father-in-law tweeted out, and to him the message was quite clear to him. Those aren’t stereotypical “sheriff” hands in the corner.

The worst people in this country saw your father-in-law’s message and took it as they saw fit. And yet Donald Trump in his response chose not to condemn them, the anti-Semites who, by his argument were obviously misinterpreting the image, but the media.

And now, Mr. Kushner, I ask you: What are you going to do about this? Look at those tweets I got again, the ones calling me out for my Jewish last name, insulting my nose, evoking the holocaust, and tell me I’m being too sensitive. Read about the origins of that image and see the type of people it attracted like a flies to human waste and tell me this whole story is just the work of the “dishonest media.” Look at that image and tell me, honestly, that you just saw a “Sheriff’s Star.” I didn’t see a sheriff star, Mr. Kushner, and I’m a smart person. After all, I work for your paper.

Edmund Burke once said, in times that are starting to seem more and more similar: “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Well, here I am, and here we are. Both Jewish, both members of the media. And you might choose silence, but I’ve said my piece.

Respectfully,

Dana Schwartz

Article with links here: http://observer.com/2016/07/an-open-letter-to-jared-kushner-from-one-of-your-jewish-employees/
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
You have some factual proof on that Blue??


If true it is disgusting and wrong, just like those republicans getting caught in bathrooms doing lewd acts.


Also kind of disgusting what you said about women on this forum one time.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:46pm PT
Prankster wrote: Totally inappropriate press conference by Comely. Once again, Clinton gets worse treatment than anyone else would. A showy FBI press conference like that when charges declined? Weird.



I agree as stated above. Total bullsh#t.



Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:56pm PT
I'll reiterate that it's usually liberals that grab at desperate strings to dupe the moronic masses. They usually buy it all too. That's why liberals always have to lie to people and distort reality. They have nothing reasonable that sells.

Right on, Bluey. Good old American conservatives would ever attempt that.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jul 5, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
Our precious Hillary is always the victim. So unfair....
dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
Read that. Somebody got "bullied" by a candidate?

What the the hell kind of bullshit are we delving into where "bullying" comes into play?

What's really ironic here, is that it's usually liberals who "bully" people rhetorically.

"you can't say that", "that's insensitive, I'm going to file charges".

Yet so easily "offended" by words. I know the game. You f*#king as#@&%es are NOT really offended by words.

Our spineless leadership falls for it everytime though. Until Trump showed up and told you all to go f*#k yourselves!

Oooh! You can't sat that! that's "offensive".

F*#k you!!

Oh ...

So you're ok with a man picking on another man's disability?


And you think this man should be president?

I see.



zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 06:02pm PT
Doesn't this guy post here?


Beverly Hills accused of driving out homeless man befriended by Larry King, others

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 06:07pm PT
Funny you ask me what I believe, when you show yourself what you believe. What Bill Clinton did as president is innuendo. What I quoted was a law suit.

As far as I am concerned, I wasn't there. But do I believe Trump could do those things?

You mean the man who is said, “Women, you have to treat ‘em like sh#t.”

You people are slime. You distort, twist, and weave your way arounf the bullseye of the truth.

This aversion to being honest and openly frank with your words is very telling.


You and your like are liars, and pervayors of mis-truths. Some would call this the work of the devil, and it may be. I don't know.

What i do know for a fact is that you dwell in dishonesty, Kman. You will do anything to get your way, even if it involves distorting facts.

Your friends work with you in the regard.

I just hope that things don't bite you in the ass. I take that back.

I hope you pay a heavy Karmic price for the dishonesty that you spout. There will be a reckoning for all those that dwell in lies.

I don't really dislike you, but there must be a cost for such illusion.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
Oh ...

So you're ok with a man picking on another man's disability?


And you think this man should be president?

I see.

Can we be honest here? DO you really think Donald was mocking his dis-ability, or was just referncing a distinguishing characteristic of a particular reporter? Ya know the guy with the "ughh" limp arm.

It wasn't really brilliant, but was it really that bad?

You're digging for stuff, I get that. Keep using the "gimp". I'm sure that's not a winner....
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
DISGRACEFUL BRIBE!

"It's a bribe!" yelled Trump, claiming that Lynch may have believed that she'd have four more years on the job if she let Clinton off the hook.

"It's a disgrace!" Trump repeated. "It's a disgrace!"
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jul 5, 2016 - 06:49pm PT
Can we be honest here? DO you really think Donald was mocking his dis-ability, or was just referncing a distinguishing characteristic of a particular reporter?

Could you explain the difference to me? Thanks.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
No, of course this did not really happen, it is all a LIE.


[Click to View YouTube Video]
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 5, 2016 - 06:55pm PT
"So you're ok with a man picking on another man's disability?

And you think this man should be president?"


Ever seen any other POTUS candidate do anything that even remotely resembled that kind of mockery?

C'mon, blue. Stop the f*#king rationalizing.

'Was it really that bad?'


YES, IT WAS.


And if Hillary had done something remotely similar, you'd be smashing everyone here in the face with it.



Norton

Social climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 06:56pm PT

Republican Candidate for State Senate, yeah!, Tells is Like It Is, no "PC" Here Bitches


Ted Busiek @TedBusiek

DONALD TRUMP. Putting self-righteous faggots in their place since 1993. How I love this fellow.#MAGA https://twitter.com/allinwithchris/status/748686944641495040
11:20 AM - 2 Jul 2016
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 06:56pm PT



More on Comey, he was part of the Whitewater witch hunt.


"The FBI's job is to investigate cases and when it's appropriate to work with the Justice Department to bring charges," he said on CNN.
Instead, Miller said: "Jim Comey is the final arbiter in determining the appropriateness of Hillary Clinton's conduct. That's not his job."


http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/05/politics/james-comey-fbi-hillary-clinton-decision/index.html


Curt..sound familiar? "In 1996, after months of work, Comey came to some damning conclusions: Hillary Clinton was personally involved in mishandling documents and had ordered others to block investigators as they pursued their case. Worse, her behavior fit into a pattern of concealment: she and her husband had tried to hide their roles in two other matters under investigation by law enforcement."
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
Curt..sound familiar? "In 1996, after months of work, Comey came to some damning conclusions: Hillary Clinton was personally involved in mishandling documents and had ordered others to block investigators as they pursued their case. Worse, her behavior fit into a pattern of concealment: she and her husband had tried to hide their roles in two other matters under investigation by law enforcement."

Why you are continuing to ream the guy who said that "no reasonable prosecutor would bring charges" against Hillary is beyond me. He made the right call.

Curt
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 5, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
Trump was channeling Limbaugh with his immitation of the disabled reporter...Another low for American politics...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 07:15pm PT
Curt wrote: Why you are continuing to ream the guy who said that "no reasonable prosecutor would bring charges" against Hillary is beyond me. He made the right call.

Curt


It should have ended there.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jul 5, 2016 - 07:25pm PT
I work around classified stuff. Nobody I work with would even remotely entertain the idea of what Clinton did. Every one uses personal email for personal stuff and everyone has two phones (even though most phones are not even allowed inside classified areas), a personal phone and a work phone.

What she did is outrageous, and her husband doubled down on inappropriate conduct by meeting with the potential prosecutor. Neither did anything criminal but I don't think the seriousness and arrogance of their actions should be underestimated.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jul 5, 2016 - 07:27pm PT

Jul 5, 2016 - 06:49pm PT

Jim Brennan

Trad climber

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2016 - 06:21pm PT
HAHAHAHA, Klimmer !

Once again you are trolling the lure that a genetic percentage of an individual is because of the DNA on exhibit through belief in a creed !

Maybe we should ask Dr. Hartouni about the physics involved and the biological properties required, when combined in making for an employable high school science teacher in these times of fiscal restraint ! 



You really don't know much about DNA analysis and what they can now determine. They can tell Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jewish genetic heritage and even tell many of the historic 12 tribes. I had my DNA done. I know my paternal haplotype and my maternal haplotype, and my Ashkenazi Jewish genetic heritage.

We know and you're hot too


Sorry got too much of the quote but you get the picture
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 07:52pm PT
Funny...http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/13/white.house.email/index.html
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 5, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
Un-f*#king-believable Kilimmer. You can gloss over anything. Have you no morals, no basis, no grounding, no self analysis, no thought? Nah, just some Kool-Aid™.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
Trump was making fun of the man's disability, Bluering.


No he wasn't "making fun", he was pointing out a distinguishing characteristic of the man.

You know this as well. But keep up the game.

It's about how you define what is "is".

I'm tired of it honestly. It's a f*#king game that you guys keep playing, but when you get called on it, you little bitches cry "foul".

F*#king sad and really weak, and you f*#king know it it.

Keep winning by deceit and obfuscation. It's all you got.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
Rove outing Joe Wilson and the 5 million missing emails...So it's okay when the Repubs erase emails and not okay when Hillary does it...? Politics as usual...
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
It should have ended there.

I guess we disagree on that. I think Comey had to explain how the facts did not rise to the level of being prosecutable. To simply get up there and say that Clinton made no mistakes (which she herself has admitted to) would have really damaged his credibility.

Curt
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:10pm PT
"No he wasn't "making fun", he was pointing out a distinguishing characteristic of the man.

F*#king sad and really weak, and you f*#king know it it."


Well, with a little quick editing, I gotta agree with you.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:11pm PT
bluering


Trad climber

Santa Clara, CA

Jul 5, 2016 - 06:07pm PT
You and your like are liars, and pervayors of mis-truths. Some would call this the work of the devil, and it may be. I don't know.

What i do know for a fact is that you dwell in dishonesty, Kman. You will do anything to get your way, even if it involves distorting facts.

Your friends work with you in the regard.

I just hope that things don't bite you in the ass. I take that back.

I hope you pay a heavy Karmic price for the dishonesty that you spout. There will be a reckoning for all those that dwell in lies.

I don't really dislike you, but there must be a cost for such illusion.
This aversion to being honest and openly frank with your words is very telling.

nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
you know i find myself, quite possibly for the first time, agreeing in some respects with Bob D'A... because that was one hell of a fascinating move by comey...



name me one criminal investigation where the lead investigator, calls a press conference and says something parallel to the following [be it about a kidnapping, murder or drug case for example]:

Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.

For example, seven e-mail chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret-Special Access Program level when they were sent and received. These chains involved Secretary Clinton both sending e-mails about those matters and receiving e-mails from others about the same matters. There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position, or in the position of those government employees with whom she was corresponding about these matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation. In addition to this highly sensitive information, we also found information that was properly classified as Secret by the U.S. Intelligence Community at the time it was discussed on e-mail (that is, excluding the later “up-classified” e-mails).

None of these e-mails should have been on any kind of unclassified system, but their presence is especially concerning because all of these e-mails were housed on unclassified personal servers not even supported by full-time security staff, like those found at Departments and Agencies of the U.S. Government—or even with a commercial service like Gmail. [bolded emphasis mine]



because last time i checked it was the job of a judge or jury to determine if "there is evidence" or if something "should not" have been done...

and because of that i'm not aware of a part of the job description of an investigator, lead or not, being that s/he should make their position known to the public without going to trial.



because just as can be seen in this thread, what comey effectively did was throw the trial into the court of public opinion...

rather than do his job.

his job was to either make a case, or say there wasn't a case.

what he decided to do was do neither, or both, depending on how you want to look at it.



and so because he stated his claims to having "evidence" of certain acts and certain "should have dones" to the public, rather than to a judge and jury, the portion of the public who think that there are different rules for the elite [and one look at bush and co's handling of their emails as they ran out the door, should convince anyone with open eyes that that is an irrefutable fact, but i digress] have evidence for that.

and as no charges are being pressed, the portion of the public who believe it was all just a witch hunt also have evidence for that.



and so all in all, a very smooth, but very "unprofessional", move by mr. comey...



that sumofabitch didn't get this far in d.c. without being a politician after all...
dirtbag

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:13pm PT
Pretty lame rationalization of an utterly disgusting behavior, bluering.

The characteristic he was mocking was his disability. Trump's no idiot, he knew exactly what he was doing.

You wouldn't do that!

Why you stick up for that fetid piece of trash is beyond me.

You're the one being completely dishonest here.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:14pm PT
his job was to either make a case, or say there wasn't a case.

Correct. He said there wasn't a case.

Curt
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
You and your right winger posse are the liars, and pervayors of mis-truths. Some would call this the work of the devil, and it may be. I don't know.

What i do know for a fact is that you dwell in dishonesty. You will do anything to get your way, even if it involves distorting facts.

Your friends work with you in the regard.

I just hope that things don't bite you in the ass. I take that back.

I hope you pay a heavy Karmic price for the dishonesty that you spout. There will be a reckoning for all those that dwell in lies.

I don't really dislike you, but there must be a cost for such illusion.
This aversion to being honest and openly frank with your words is very telling.

I agree
you right wingers dwell in a delusion, a bubble reality...
you need to climb out of that pit of evil
nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:17pm PT
Curt wrote: "Correct. He said there wasn't a case."

he did a lot more than that, as i pointed out.

if you think i'm wrong, name me one case where an investigator calls a press conference to say that they are not recommending a prosecution and then goes on to say "they have evidence of such and such" and so and so "should not have done such and such"

until i hear an answer i'll let you continue to keep succinctly stating half of the truth...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
"I guess we disagree on that. I think Comey had to explain how the facts did not rise to the level of being prosecutable. To simply get up there and say that Clinton made no mistakes (which she herself has admitted to) would have really damaged his credibility.

Curt"


His job was to say if there evidence or not that she committed a crime or had intent to commit a crime. There wasn't, he stepped over his boundaries.


Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:21pm PT
"Trump did in fact MOCK the dude"


Who doesn't he mock who disagrees with him???
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:23pm PT
Correction, rottingjohnny, it was actually 22 million missing emails. But what the hell, a power of 10 here or there; it's all good.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
Curt wrote: "Correct. He said there wasn't a case."

he did a lot more than that, as i pointed out.

if you think i'm wrong, name me one case where an investigator calls a press conference and says "they have evidence of such and such" and so and so "should have done such and such"

until i here an answer i'll let you continue to keep succinctly stating half of the truth...

Comey DID say there was no case. You are cherry picking irrelevant parts out of his press conference and completely skipping his conclusion. Comey said:

In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

Comey also said that "no reasonable prosecutor would bring charges." I think that's pretty clear.

Curt
Coach37

Social climber
Philly
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:26pm PT
Hey what do you think ever happened to these guys

Rockefeller Republicans were moderate or liberal on domestic and social policies. They typically favored New Deal programs and a social safety net; they sought to run these programs more efficiently than the Democrats.[8] Rockefeller Republicans also saw themselves as champions of "good government", contrasting themselves to the often corrupt machine politics of the Democratic Party (particularly in large cities). They were strong supporters of big business and Wall Street. In fiscal policy they favored balanced budgets, and were not averse to raising taxes in order to achieve them.

In state politics, they were strong supporters of state colleges and universities, low tuition, and large research budgets. They favored infrastructure improvements, such as highway projects. In foreign policy, they tended to be Hamiltonian, espousing internationalist and realist policies, supporting the United Nations, and promoting American business interests abroad.

That sounds like the Clintons to me. Rockefeller Republicans from Arkansas.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
Winemaker...I was only off by 17 million...picky , picky...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:29pm PT
Curt...it was a dog and pony show.

Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information.



She got scolded by the FBI director in the second part of the above, pretty f*#ked up in my opinion.


All he needed to do was say if a crime has been committed or not. My opinion.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:29pm PT
If it isn't clear now that the former US is in terminal Banana Republic mode, well then... go back to sleep!

zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:31pm PT
It got me to wondering who was sending the classified emails to an email server known not to be a secure server.



Can we got an Amen for reopening the investigation and getting after these presumed criminals?


Anyway, we all know that all the government servers are secure all of the time, right?
-Abe Lincoln


Nobody ever gets information out of them. Kinda like nobody gets out this life alive.



nah000

climber
no/w/here
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:35pm PT
Curt...

still waiting on those other cases...

and given i already said comey "DID say there was no case", i'm not sure who you're arguing all mb1 style with...

looks like we aren't going to change each others minds just yet... have a good one...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:45pm PT
I'm still trying to figure out how Trump has less integrity than Hillary.

At least, like Bernie, Trump is brutally honest. Hillary is a f*#king junk-show.


Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
If it isn't clear now that the former US is in terminal Banana Republic mode, well then... go back to sleep

Wait, what? Zzzzzz


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 5, 2016 - 08:59pm PT
"I'm still trying to figure out how Trump has less integrity than Hillary."


Not the point, blue.

Regardless of who Trump is up against, does his persona demonstrate what America needs in the White House, or not?

Edit:
Some Republicans call Trump out for the piece of sh#t that he really is, while still having great reservations about Hillary. I can respect that...but anyone who tries to rationalize Trump's behaviors is either a racist/misogynist/etc themselves, or they are completely lying to themselves and everyone around them.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 5, 2016 - 09:30pm PT
looks like we aren't going to change each others minds just yet... have a good one...

I'm not sure we're actually in huge disagreement. Texting, posting, email, etc. are imperfect mediums for communicating.

Curt
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:52pm PT
Maybe we should ask Dr. Hartouni ...
just so you all know, this is my one and only post to this thread...
don't ask me about the crap thrown around in this thread and expect an answer.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:18am PT
The most bizarre aspect of the Trump campaign is that The Donald has been a headline and tabloid fixture for more than 30 years, but he thinks that nobody knows what he's been up to during that time.

Trump has made it his life's work to be in the forefront of the public consciousness. He has an incredible craving for attention and recognition, and has actively worked to make sure that every thing he does gets noticed, reported, and broadcast out to the public.


Now, though, he suddenly wants to run for president, and he thinks that his entire backstory will somehow, magically, vanish into thin air.

He has made a career out of everyone else knowing his business, but he somehow remains convinced that his extensively sordid past remains hidden and unknowable to the public.




In the future, there will be multiple PhD psychology dissertations written about Trump and his surrealistic presidential campaign.



Pay attention kids, you are witnessing history in the making.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:29am PT
Just to be clear, had classified materials been sent an indictment would have been recommended. Discussing classified matters in private emails, while sloppy, doesn't rise to the level of an indictable offense. If it did, the entire W administration would be in prison.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:34am PT
If it did, the entire W administration would be in prison.


The asymmetry of the Republican response to the Obama administration compared to the Democratic response to the Bush administration is truly astonishing.


The GOP politicians are self-serving and self-interested, and have little or no regard for the American public.



The Republicans in Congress waste their time and waste taxpayers' money chasing phantom wrong-doing by Democrats.

Meanwhile, if you look at the record of Federal politicians who have been indicted and convicted during the Bush and Obama administrations, the majority have been Republicans (13 to 6).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes


This is truly an absurd and ludicrous state of affairs.




Vote the Republicans out of office, and Make America Great Again



dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 05:54am PT
Use of the private server was very stupid and unnecessary. But she is the only candidate advocating for policies i agree with, and despite this mistake, the temperament and judgment for the job.

Yes the use of the private email server was bad: trump university (among many other trump scams) actually hurt a lot of people.

No fooking way am I voting for that vindictive, short tempered, no nothing bigoted conman.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 6, 2016 - 06:17am PT
Trust me
Believe me
I know
I promise
Let me tell you
I guarantee it
I saw it
I have the best words
There is no problem
I will fix USA
I am really, really rich




Who cares what the media says, as long as you have a young and beautiful piece of ass?











Donald Drumpfkopf is a caricature of himself.

He should take himself to a taxidermist and be permanently exhibited in the Trump Tower lobby.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 06:22am PT
Tom wrote: The GOP politicians are self-serving and self-interested, and have little or no regard for the American public.

The Republicans in Congress waste their time and waste taxpayers' money chasing phantom wrong-doing by Democrats.


Hitting the nail on the head, the republicans have done nothing to help the average American.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:09am PT
Fortunately for Clinton, republicans are not capitalizing on this nearly as well as they could.

Trump doesn't have the money right now to nail her with biting ads while the controversy is still fresh, so that's a missed opportunity. Meanwhile, he keeps talking about a rigged justice system. So? Why not attack her directly?

Paul Ryan wants even more investigations about the FBI's investigation. Why--because the last umpteen investigations (IRS, Benghazi, etc.) conducted by the house were so fruitful and interesting to the general population? Sure, they would re-fire up the base, but firing up the base is all the republicans ever do.

A capable, cleaner republican nominee could actually scorch her with this.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:35am PT
Look at this way, Rush Limbaugh attacked Bill Clinton 3 hours a day, 5 days a week for 8 years. All he did was leave as one of the most popular presidents ever. For his second term:

Bill Clinton


January 1997-January 2001


60.6

http://www.gallup.com/poll/116677/presidential-approval-ratings-gallup-historical-statistics-trends.aspx
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:41am PT
Let us not forget, the FBI has said there is nothing to prosecute. And somehow these f*#king losers in the GOP are supposed to capitalize on LOSING AGAIN?

Benghazi investigation was utterly ridiculous, but I don't think that's the case here. While I think comey did the right thing in not seeking prosecution here (which is consistent with other similar investigations) I think he was right in his conclusion she was extremely careless, which is not a winning attribute as commander in chief. She f*#ked up, and having him call her on it instead of say trey gowdy or Darrell frickin' Issa means something. Her explanations have been nebulous too. She actually does deserve some sh#t for this one. Hopefully she was not hacked.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:42am PT
wow, and that approval rating is even after the Monica Lewinsky obvious lie thing?

gee, maybe the economy creating over 30 million jobs in Clinton's 8 years was a better thing?
Norton

Social climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:51am PT
ok so regarding the Hillary private server at home email thing - dumb

Am I correct that in the "chain" of "forwards" there were some emails marked classified?

ok did anyone get a blister on their thumb over any of this email stuff?

Bush lied and thousands died, yet Republicans had NO problem electing him again in 04

explain that

Bill Clinton got oral sex from Monica just like John Kennedy did from Marilyn Monroe
and yes that IS sex and so he lied and the Repub House voted to Impeach him and the Senate said forget that sh#t

This email stuff means nothing and won't change any votes, just like nothing Trump says or does including raping a 13 year old will make anyone not vote for him

so who cares? - Hillary wins by over 8 million popular and over 140 Electoral Votes

Norton

Social climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:01am PT
what do you make of this, Dingus?

The 110 emails represented only a small fraction of the roughly 60,000 emails that passed through Mrs. Clinton’s servers. Even with the 2,000 that the State Department upgraded as part of their public release, they account for fewer than 7 percent of those sent and received. Also, as one law enforcement official noted, the recipients of the most sensitive emails included aides or diplomats who have clearances to receive classified information — as opposed to a journalist, as was the case with the former director of the C.I.A., David H. Petraeus.

In the end, as damning as Mr. Comey’s conclusion was, he did not claim that Mrs. Clinton’s behavior had compromised any program or operation.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:03am PT
Had she been anyone else? Jail time.

Actually...I don't think she should not get jail time. No one who has committed similar violations has ever receive jail time.

She does deserve some sh#t over this. Not the crime of the century, but it was pretty f*#king stoopid; heck, most of us dunces here would think better of it.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:03am PT
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:18am PT
The most bizarre aspect of the Trump campaign is that The Donald has been a headline and tabloid fixture for more than 30 years, but he thinks that nobody knows what he's been up to during that time.

Probably because tens of millions of Americans seem happy to oblige.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:13am PT
Had she been anyone else? Jail time.

Actually...I don't think she should not get jail time. No one who has committed similar violations has ever receive jail time.

She does deserve some sh#t over this. Not the crime of the century, but it was pretty f*#king stoopid; heck, most of us dunces here would think better of it.

I agree, probably not actual jail time but a large fine (to cover the FBI investigation at the very least), and perhaps a suspended sentence and probation.

But the main point is anyone else would have been arrested, charged, and gone to trial. Sentencing would take into her degree of gross negligence and intent. She'd have a record with conviction on it for the rest of her life (which for the Sith is a very long time).

But as we can see now, laws do not apply in any way to the criminals running our Banana Republic.

Funny how the FBI guy took off running after his delivery yesterday.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:22am PT
Of course DMT knows better than the lawyers and the director at the FBI.

Being careless and being a criminal are two different things.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:23am PT
Because he lied about that part. People are prosecuted all the time for far less than what Hillary did.

https://www.fbi.gov/sacramento/press-releases/2015/folsom-naval-reservist-is-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-to-unauthorized-removal-and-retention-of-classified-materials

Again, we're not talking about life in prison but still a federal conviction and loss of privileges forever dealing with secret information, which seems kinda like common sense to me.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:23am PT
the FBI could not find a single case in which a person was charged with crimes for similar actions.

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:24am PT
Of course DMT knows better than the lawyers and the director at the FBI.

Being careless and being a criminal are two different things.

Wrong.

Gross negligence is a crime.

Intent doesn't have to be involved.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:41am PT
Werner... What part of "clear evidence that no criminal acts were committed" do you not understand.?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:56am PT
We also assess that Secretary Clinton’s use of a personal e-mail domain was both known by a large number of people and readily apparent. She also used her personal e-mail extensively while outside the United States, including sending and receiving work-related e-mails in the territory of sophisticated adversaries.
-James (don't call Jedgar) Comey

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:58am PT
My seven year old could read this law, listen to the FBI's very clear evidence, and deduce that the offender should be arrested, charged with violating this federal law, and have their day in court.

Intent or malice has nothing to do with it. Gross negligence with 20+ pieced of classified material over years, especially for a supposedly educated person in one of the top positions of authority, IS a crime.



Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:59am PT
Good one z, comey is acting a little like J Edgar.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:07am PT
Gretchen Carlson files sexual harassment suit against Fox News chief Roger Ailes

Gretchen Carlson, until last month a Fox News host, alleged in a lawsuit filed Wednesday that Fox News boss Roger Ailes fired her from the network after months of rebuffing his sexual advances.

The lawsuit was filed in the Superior Court of New Jersey in Bergen County, where Ailes lives. The Fox News chairman is the only person named in the suit.

“We believe that Mr. Ailes’ behavior toward Gretchen, as described in the complaint, speaks volumes about what she had to endure. The evidence will show that Ailes deliberately sabotaged the career of a talented, hard-working journalist and loyal Fox News employee," Martin Hyman, an attorney representing Carlson, said in a statement to Politico.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:15am PT
I guess I didn't make it clear. Verrry many people knew about the server, yet nobody barked. Wouldn't it be interesting to find some emails to H. Clinton from say Mitch, Paul, Rand, Barack, McCain, Lyndon, Liddy, Benedict Arnold?
-Deputy Dawg



apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:32am PT
"...if an enlisted person did what Hillary did, there would be no question as to prosecution."


"Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case," Comey said, saying the FBI could not find a single case in which a person was charged with crimes for similar actions."
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:43am PT
Why, that would make it THEIR FAULT, now wouldn't it? Hehe

No, just that they would be complicit in the purported violations of the law(s) and would therefore need to be investigated and absolved of wrong-doing and/or pardoned (didn't Gerald Ford start that tradition?).

The people need to know that their politicians are not crooks, and they are not crooks.
-Spiro Agnew
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:43am PT
but....there is always a first.

I think, think situations like this are a reason(s) folks like someone/thing that tastes like Trump. Although, it won't matter. Those NE $lockjaws$ along with $Israel$ that essentially control this country, will still control this country...

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:45am PT
"Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case," Comey said, saying the FBI could not find a single case in which a person was charged with crimes for similar actions."

What a copout. If there was "potential evidence" isn't it their mandate to find actual evidence?
It seems that with all the time that this took some definitive answers would not have been too
much to expect. Color me naive to expect the gubmint to actually do what it is supposed to.
And just because nobody has been charged before precludes making Hillary the first?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:49am PT
"It seems that with all the time that this took some definitive answers would not have been too
much to expect."


And if such 'definitive answers' actually EXISTED, you'd think they'd have found them.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:49am PT
Remember that Manning/whistleblower guy? Here's a quote from good 'ol Hillary:

“I think that in an age where so much information is flying through cyberspace, we all have to be aware of the fact that some information which is sensitive, which does affect the security of individuals and relationships, deserves to be protected and we will continue to take necessary steps to do so,” Clinton said."

Unbelievable isn't it?

Oh, and here are two people convicted and sentenced for the same grossly negligent crime:

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/crime/2015/07/29/navy-engineer-sentenced-for-mishandling-classified-material/30862027/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/national-security/case-against-ex-nsa-manager-accused-of-mishandling-classified-files-narrows/2011/06/07/AGk3ZZMH_story.html
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:52am PT
So the best lawyers in the country along with the FBI couldn't find clear evidence that she commited a crime but armchair lawyers here on ST know better.

30 years of republican led witch hunts and waste of our dollars....zip, zero guilty of any crime.

Benghazi !!!!!
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:53am PT
Number one - wrong

A federal attorney announced Wednesday that Bryan Nishimura of Folsom, California, pleaded guilty to the unauthorized removal and retention of classified materials.

Number two - maybe closer - but still wrong

charged with unlawfully retaining classified information at a time when he was in touch with a Baltimore Sun reporter who later chronicled mismanagement at the agency.


Try reading stuff before you post it.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:55am PT
Reading sure is tough isn't it?

Better let the 'experts' do it for you.

Go back to sleep, we'll wake you when it's time to crown her.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:56am PT
Man, people have short & skewed memories.

How many people died directly as a result of this server mishandling?

How many people died directly as a result of the purposeful misleading of CheneyBushCo?


I could take you guys on the Right a little more seriously if your ranting wasn't so goddamned transparent.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:57am PT
What a copout. If there was "potential evidence" isn't it their mandate to find actual evidence?
It seems that with all the time that this took some definitive answers would not have been too
much to expect.

It was an in-artfully chosen word. Everything is evidence, some of it weak some of it strong, some inadmissble.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:59am PT
So the best lawyers in the country along with the FBI couldn't find clear evidence that she commited a crime

And Al Capone was totally innocent of everything except tax evasion.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:04am PT
No she is Al Capone. LOL

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:08am PT
And Werner thinks liberal are obsessed with Hillary, fecking republicans have been trying for 30 years to nail something, anything on her. Talk about being obsessed.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:16am PT
So the best lawyers in the country along with the FBI couldn't find clear evidence that she commited a crime but armchair lawyers here on ST know better.

Bob, if they're the "best" we've got then why is a simple yes or no seemingly beyond them?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:17am PT
Apogee, I agree, close to 26,000 posts of leg humping liberal bashing.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:18am PT
Bob, if they're the "best" we've got then why is a simple yes or no seemingly beyond them?

Only simple people attempt to reduce complicated issues to yes or no--black or white. Like Republicans.

Curt
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:19am PT
Reilly, if the FBI had come down with recommendation to prosecute, you guys wouldn't say a goddamn thing about quality of the investigation.

As far as the Right is concerned, she is guilty until proven guilty. End of trial.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:23am PT
Reilly...I blame Comey for that. His rant was uncalled for and beyond his duties. My opinion.

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:24am PT
Facts being what they are, it can no longer be denied that Hillary is a serial liar, negligent and incompetent.

What a Devil's choice this election is. Pass the popcorn ;-)

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:27am PT
You guys sure love to jump to conclusions. I don't give a rat's ass one way or another. I'm
just sick of lawyers and gubmint types who won't give a straight answer. If you get drafted
to be on a jury they expect you to give a straight answer, for free.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:30am PT
I agree Reilly, guilty or not guilty. F*#k off with his opinions.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:32am PT
Ummm, that verdict happens in a trial, doesn't it?

This was not a trial.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:35am PT
What a copout. If there was "potential evidence" isn't it their mandate to find actual evidence?

Ya know, sometimes it's just impossible to figure out what is going on, even with the best people and copious resources to devote to the problem. I can definitely relate to that. And often, straight simple answers are elusive. Life is awfully messy that way.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:36am PT
This was the conclusion of the gubmint's efforts to determine whether there was enough evidence to warrant prosecution. They investigated...found insufficient information to pursue it...and announced their conclusion.

That kind of announcement is going to take some explaining, and is not a up/down, guilty/not guilty process.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:36am PT
Facts being what they are, it can no longer be denied that Hillary is a serial liar, negligent and incompetent.

Meh, who isn't?
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:37am PT
Comey is a Republican appointee of George W Bush, so of course the decision was political. Of course he was going to let the Republican off... oh wait.

So um, Comey is a Rino. Throw him out of the GOP, throw him out I say!



It's fun the see the foot stomping and teeth gnashing of the right over this. Legal experts have been saying for month it looks like she did nothing to be indicted over. And Comey said no one has ever been indicted over similar actions. Yet they want her to be indicted SO BAD, that... BENGHAZI!!11

Yes Hillary is a liar and careless. She wouldn't be elected if the right didn't choose someone much worse than her to run, Trump. Had they simply chosen the more reasonable Republican Kasich, Hillary would be not be elected. You made your bed...
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:41am PT
Apogee to certain degree, Comey in my opinion when beyond that.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:45am PT
Reilly...I blame Comey for that. His rant was uncalled for and beyond his duties. My opinion.

I think Comey was in an impossible position. If he simply said he does not recommend prosecution, given the facts everyone knows, people would say it's a coverup. If he recommended prosecution, and he lost the case (likely, in my opinion), he had no future in a Clinton administration, which he probably doesn't anyway. I think he said what he said to show that the FBI did, in fact, conduct a competent investigation and reached a supportable conclusion. In other words, he said what he said to protect the integrity of the FBI from circumstances that would otherwise call it into question.

In a somewhat unrelated matter, why are we spending so many posts about Hillary on a topic allegedly about Donald? Merely showing her imperfections doesn't make Donald the better choice. Supporting Clinton in the face of her issues does not make one intellectually dishonest. It merely recognizes that her imperfections are far less consequential than Trump's.

In my opinion, Trump has done nothing to make him a more desirable candidate since becoming the presumptive nominee. If anything, his protectionist economic policy and his shallow campaign demonstrate his negative qualities in sharper relief. Even if the FBI recommended indctment (as they probably would for a non-politician (think Martha Stewart or Michael Milkin), that doesn't make her worse than Trump. In fact, I rather suspect that Trump, too, should be investigated for violation of campaign finance law, among other things.

Confining the discussion to one candidate, without comparison to the others, is simply an exercise in logical fallacies.

John

Edit:

Yes Hillary is a liar and careless. She wouldn't be elected if the right didn't choose someone much worse than her to run, Trump. Had they simply chosen the more reasonable Republican Kasich, Hillary would be not be elected. You made your bed...

Exactly, except I'm not sure who constitutes "the right." Trump has little appeal to traditional conservatives.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:48am PT
You guys are amusing, and just willfully blind as the rabid Trump supporters...

Circus for everyone!

14k coming fast....
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:51am PT
Yep, John, that's pretty much where I sit as well.


Now can we move on? There's soooooo much more stoooopidity on the Right these days to be discussing.
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jul 6, 2016 - 11:08am PT
^^^The pot calling the kettle black
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 11:11am PT
John nails it.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 6, 2016 - 11:26am PT
I think Comey was in an impossible position. If he simply said he does not recommend prosecution, given the facts everyone knows, people would say it's a coverup. If he recommended prosecution, and he lost the case (likely, in my opinion), he had no future in a Clinton administration, which he probably doesn't anyway. I think he said what he said to show that the FBI did, in fact, conduct a competent investigation and reached a supportable conclusion. In other words, he said what he said to protect the integrity of the FBI from circumstances that would otherwise call it into question.

I think that's exactly right. Comey was trying to thread the needle, knowing that he was dealing with an explosive issue.

Curt
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jul 6, 2016 - 11:38am PT
I certainly hope that situations where the cops are the ones that decide what and if charges are brought against someone doesn't become a trend in this country.

Nice that we have a firm hand at the Attorney General wheel. Also nice to see that Bill Clinton saw fit to help her steer. Here honey, that thing's heavy - let me help you.



the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jul 6, 2016 - 11:42am PT
Exactly, except I'm not sure who constitutes "the right." Trump has little appeal to traditional conservatives.

I could have been more definitive by saying "the majority of republican primary voters" Trump is a weird mix of positions but a lot of his support comes from the same red meat faction of the republican party that likes Palin. Tell them what they want to hear even if it's not the truth. Never admit American makes mistakes (unless of course it's the dems/left doing it) blame all problems on someone else (a recipe to really handicap improving anything), demagogue galore. Think they know what's best for everyone (of course they claim the far left does this, which they do, but the far right also does it in another way).
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 11:48am PT
"I certainly hope that situations where the cops are the ones that decide what and if charges are brought against someone doesn't become a trend in this country. "


Umm....exactly who would you prefer to see make the decision as to 'what and if charges' should be brought against someone?

The pitchforked masses on your Fox News channel?

(Countdown to meaningless and dimissive response...10...9...8...)
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 6, 2016 - 11:52am PT
Now can we move on?

Yes. Let's move on. After all, this story is yesterday's news.

Clinton lied repeatedly throughout this whole investigation. Just about every time she defended a specific detail she lied.

Then last week, her husband has an unscheduled, private meeting the Attorney General of the United States.

What's Lynch's response? "Oops. My bad."

Hillary's? "They've said, you know, they would not do it again"

Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Say no more.

A week later, Comey comes out and says (I'm paraphrasing) "they did everything we thought they did, but we don't think anyone should be charged.

I love this lie "“In looking back at our investigations into the mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts.”

Hillary lies through her teeth. The investigation confirms she did everything she was accused of. And the FBI says let's move on.

This reminds me of the Affluenza Case and the Stanford "He's already suffered enough" Rape Case. Not the crimes. But how the offending parties are treated like hapless victims who've already been through enough.

Overall, I think Hillary is okay. She's clearly more qualified to be Trump. I'll probably vote for her.

But the way this has played out looks like something from the banana republic.

Go USA!

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 6, 2016 - 11:54am PT
Umm....exactly who would you prefer to see make the decision as to 'what and if charges' should be brought against someone?

How about prosecutors?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 6, 2016 - 11:56am PT
I think it wasn't even a majority of Republican primary voters that preferred Trump; rather a mere plurality. This was the elction of 1912 all over again, except that Wilson was Trump, and the rest of the Republicans were the Taft and T. Roosevelt equivalents.

And I, too, prefer that prosecutors, not police, decide when and against whom to bring charges. For all the prosecutorial misbehavior I've seen, I still know most to be dedicated to the cause of justice, just as I've known most policemen to be. The difference is that prosecutors have a better understanding of what it takes to prevail in a court of law. The cost of obtaining a not guilty verdict is, itself, a massive punishment for almost anyone accused of a crime.

John
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 11:57am PT
Cops make that decision thousands of times a day.

"Give him a warning, or a ticket. I think a warning will do."
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 6, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
All of the truth of this investigation concerning Hillary matters a great deal.

You're not at all interested in the truth. You're interested only in convicting Hillary Clinton of something, guilty or not.

Curt
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 6, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
Not true. If she hasn't broken the law, then she is guilty.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought.

Curt
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Jul 6, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
Interesting typo, Klimmer.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

I have used this method and got a response back (twice).

I wonder if it's a personal server in the basement.


Easily expandable to this when the tuff gets going.



Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 6, 2016 - 12:24pm PT
Not true. If she hasn't broken the law, then she is guilty.

Interesting typo, Klimmer.


Curt
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jul 6, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
"Obama get out of free card."

Scooter Libby?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 6, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
Not really. I make mistakes on my iPhone all the time.

Large climbing fingers. Also auto correct sometimes makes it worse. I have to back edit mistakes all the time on iPhone.

I say you're guilty anyway. I mean, we don't need to establish intent for mistakes, do we?

Curt
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 6, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
It sure isn't what it is...oops

So, John nails it up thread...thanks man.

What are the redeeming qualities that Trump possesses that makes him worthy of the POTUS?

* - Past accomplishments
* - Current projects in the black, socially and economically
* - Collaboration experience
* - Communication skills
* - Ethical/Moral integrity examples in his dealings/work in the real world

I'm sure folks have examples to fill in the bullet points above; oh, in order to accurately get a whole idea of the man, known examples of the exact opposite of each point should be included as well. Citations are appreciated.
monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 6, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
Klimmer, so obsessed with Clinton that he has to also post from an iphone.

overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jul 6, 2016 - 12:47pm PT
With his super-hot large climbing fingers

He has to use the iPhone because he might miss posting the same thing for the ten thousandth time

vvvvv because your leg is so hot... you must love it because here you are
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 6, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
OK dirtbag any person who's ever held a secret or top secret clearance can tell you she clearly broke the law (as was explained to us). So did her munchkins. Had she been anyone else? Jail time.

I'm not quite sure what law was broken, when two people who have the clearance to read a classified document, do so. Anything else has not even been alleged.

I do understand the issue of the method of communication security of that discussion, but the Republican Director of the FBI has cleared her of any lawbreaking related to that, just "poor judgement" in doing so.

In reality, unless she is a much more technical person than any of us, what she is guilty of is taking bad advice from her technicians.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:02pm PT
The Democrats have suddenly lost the moral high ground. Hillary lies as much as Trump. It is a disaster. The Democratic nominee, doesn't know how to manage security at the high school level. How can she govern effectively? And Bill has a spy in Lorrettas office. The meeting in Phoenix certainly was no coincidence.



monolith

climber
state of being
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
Was that posted from your iphone too, Klimmer?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:05pm PT
But the main point is anyone else would have been arrested, charged, and gone to trial. Sentencing would take into her degree of gross negligence and intent. She'd have a record with conviction on it for the rest of her life (which for the Sith is a very long time).

But as we can see now, laws do not apply in any way to the criminals running our Banana Republic.

Funny how the FBI guy took off running after his delivery yesterday.

Well, what do you expect from a REPUBLICAN official? Seems like the Repubs have a lot to answer for, to their constituents. Tea Party II???
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:08pm PT
Scooter Libby?

I was thinking of Libby, too, but I find the contrast important. The previous administration was forthcoming with evidence, rather than stonewalling, made Libby go through indictment, trial and conviction, and then pardoned him. One may legitimately question the wisdom or fairness of the pardon, I would have trouble questioning the transparency. They were open and notorious in protecting their own.

Unfortunately, the Clinton inquiry involved more than its share of withheld evidence and, as many have pointed out, her campaign's explanation of the situation contradicts the FBI's findings. Clinton's supporters now can say that an independent investigation shows her innocence of any criminal wrongdoing, but her critics will use the stonewalling and obfuscation by her campaign to say this situation did not differ from Libby's -- the only difference was that Libby presented all the facts. To me, that conclusion involves a leap of faith (embodied in Klimmer's Freudian slip, above) not supported by available evidence, but I wish someone would explain to the Clinton campaign how some actions make people look guilty, even if they are not.

john
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:10pm PT
She can't hold a Secret Security Clearance now with this "Extreme carelessness" on her record, which is really the definition of "Gross Negligence." So how can she be President if she can't be trusted with our State Secrets? She can't.

REALLY? Show me where in the Constitution, which defines the requirements for office of President, that this "rule" is found?

Again, conservatives tossing the Constitution overboard whenever it is convenient.

(not to mention-----you think Trump would rate a high classification clearance?)
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
Cops make that decision thousands of times a day.

"Give him a warning, or a ticket. I think a warning will do."


Hilarious.

You guys are right about one thing, this election is an intelligence test. And you just failed the pre-exam.

You have clearly got our legal system wired. Good Grief.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
Unfortunately, the Clinton inquiry involved more than its share of withheld evidence and, as many have pointed out, her campaign's explanation of the situation contradicts the FBI's findings. Clinton's supporters now can say that an independent investigation shows her innocence of any criminal wrongdoing, but her critics will use the stonewalling and obfuscation by her campaign to say this situation did not differ from Libby's -- the only difference was that Libby presented all the facts.

Huh?

Scooter Libby was convicted on a count of obstruction of justice, two counts of perjury, and two counts of giving false statements. Those convictions still stand, despite the pardons.

He was convicted on the testimony of others, specifically nyt reporter Judith Miller.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:27pm PT
You guys are like a gang of sick honey badgers fixated on a smelly corpse.

Get over it, it's just an obsession of HATE for Hillary.

All this stuff about her constant lying is just completely out of control, she is just careful in what she says, and you don't know if it's true or not until the CIA gives the OK.

None of this will make a difference how she does her job as President.
You can have civil, responsible and experienced =Hillary
or you can have uncivil, irresponsible, inexperienced, knuckle dragging buffoon that will wreck this country fast= Trump
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
Cops make that decision thousands of times a day.

"Give him a warning, or a ticket. I think a warning will do.


They might give you a break with anything piddly enough to Warrant a ticket.

Otherwise, you might not do the time but you won't beat the ride
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:34pm PT

Jul 6, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
Cops make that decision thousands of times a day.

"Give him a warning, or a ticket. I think a warning will do."


Hilarious.

You guys are right about one thing, this election is an intelligence test. And you just failed the pre-exam.

You have clearly got our legal system wired. Good Grief.

Am I wrong?

You can scale up the crime, if you'd like. Cops kill cases all the time because there isn't enough evidence to make a case. So?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
Well, what do you expect from a REPUBLICAN official? Seems like the Repubs have a lot to answer for, to their constituents. Tea Party II???

I dream of one day when people could overlook their tribal mentality and see reality for what it is.....

Blue or Red makes no difference. The system is rotten to the core.

We've got a garden variety narcissist acting like a clown make-believe he's running "against" a neocon warmongering criminal who isn't accountable for anything she does.

Rome must have been a similar experience towards the end.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
As Trump spoke at his rally here…his attacks on Clinton were especially popular, and one man in the crowd repeatedly shouted: “Hang that b—-!” A reporter for the local News and Observer tweeted that as Trump criticized President Obama, someone near him shouted: “He’s a monkey!”

Gosh, what could be motivating Trump’s supporters? It’s such a mystery.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 6, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
I fear ya hear!
Coach37

Social climber
Philly
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
"The previous administration was forthcoming with evidence, rather than stonewalling, made Libby go through indictment, trial and conviction, and then pardoned him"

There are multiple factual errors in the statement above. Who can pick them out?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
Rome must have been a similar experience towards the end.

The Roman Republic ended when its citizens traded self-determination for prosperity and security. After that, the emperor was whoever controlled the loyalty of the armed forces. The empire lasted until Constantinople fell in 1452. I doubt the US will last that long, at least as we're going now.

Lorenzo, I think I stated my point obscurely. Had Bush pardoned Libby before prosecution (as Ford did Nixon, e.g.), there would have been no public record. This administration has been particularly non-forthcoming in providing evidence relating to both the email server (because Clinton, not the State Department, had the easiest records to obtain) and the IRS scandal (All the hard drives got erased? And we were upset 43 years ago about a 20 minute gap?) While there are legitimate explanations possible, those actions don't look like those of people who want the truth known. It's that perception of deceitfulness that they need to stop, or it will hurt her campaign. While I don't see how Trump can win, why give him opportunities for easy pot shots?

John
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:08pm PT
why give him opportunities for easy pot shots?

I'm sure Herr Braun would say "stupidity". I'd have to agree, but don't like to see that entering in on the Clinton side of the sideshow.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:10pm PT
Does anyone still believe Libby had anything to do with outing Valery Plame?

Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
Does anyone still think that Clinton was responsible for the killings in Benghazi?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
Yes, and yes.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
Those who believe in nothing....
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
Libby stonewalled
That's why he was indicted, obstruction of justice


That's how these Republicans here talk, they forget all things that their side did and remember it some how different than the facts

then they compare their revised history to something that they are going ape over

like Benghazi

8000+ dead on Bush's watch, no concern,
4 dead on Hillary's watch, she will pay dearly
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:29pm PT
Am I wrong

Yes.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:38pm PT
"8000+ dead on Bush's watch, no concern,
4 dead on Hillary's watch, she will pay dearly"


FAKT.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
Libby stonewalled
That's why he was indicted, obstruction of justice

Libby was thrown under the bus by Cheney. THAT is why he was indicted.

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
“I can’t imagine that a Republican majority in the United States Senate would want to confirm in a lame duck session a nominee opposed by the National Rifle Association,

Mitch McConnell, Republican leader of the Senate

anyone bothered by this approach to selecting Supreme Court Justices?



Captain...or Skully

climber
Boise, ID or the fricken Bakken, variously
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:46pm PT
You nimrods can't actually LIKE this guy......anyone is better.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
Wikipedia

Libby was indicted by a federal grand jury on five felony counts of making false statements to federal investigators, perjury for lying to a federal grand jury, and obstruction of justice for impeding the course of a federal grand jury investigation concerned with the possibly illegal leaking by government officials of the classified identity of a covert agent of the CIA, Valerie Plame Wilson, the wife of former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV. Pursuant to the grand jury leak investigation, Libby was convicted on March 6, 2007, on four counts of perjury, obstruction of justice, and making false statements. He was acquitted of one count of making false statements.



They don't say anything about Cheney, even though it was Cheney that outed Valerie Plane
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 02:59pm PT
Lol Esco, whatever.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
"anyone bothered by this approach to selecting Supreme Court Justices?"

Yes. I am.
overwatch

climber
Arizona
Jul 6, 2016 - 03:11pm PT
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 6, 2016 - 03:18pm PT
Just to drive Klimmer and his fellow nutcases even more crazy:

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/286745-lynch-no-charges-against-clinton

It is over.

Curt
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 6, 2016 - 03:38pm PT
... the only difference was that Libby presented all the facts.

If Libby presented all the facts, then tell me again why he was convicted?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
As long as this thread is completely off the rails and OT....

Man, Blair is sure getting the roast today across the pond....
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jul 6, 2016 - 03:43pm PT


They don't say anything about Cheney, even though it was Cheney that outed Valerie Plane

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was Armitage and Libby that outed Plame.

Nobody was indicted for that.


Libby was convicted of the charges because he lied to a prosecutor ( Comey, the same fellow who in now the FBI director not charging Hillary), a Grand jury, and in court.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 03:45pm PT
Curt but, but Benghazi !!!!!


Apogee...Blair is getting big heat, maybe time to go after Bush.


August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 6, 2016 - 03:54pm PT
Blue or Red makes no difference. The system is rotten to the core.

We've got a garden variety narcissist acting like a clown make-believe he's running "against" a neocon warmongering criminal who isn't accountable for anything she does.

Rome must have been a similar experience towards the end.

Most empires that have fallen have had a combination of outside shocks (war, famine, etc) and dysfunctional politics.

Yes, our politics are dysfunctional, but our current choices still matter and politics are relative. Compared to most places in Africa, our politics are great.

I find it hard to imagine how people think that it won't make any difference whether Hillary or Trump gets elected. You have a choice between a sleazy, wonkish centrist who will generally go with the status quo, and a politically inexperienced angry populist demagogue whose mental fortitude to be president is highly suspect.

If nothing else, the POTUS makes a huge difference for Supreme Court decisions that directly affect people's lives. Obamacare and gay marriage were 5/4 decisions. The Texas abortion case 5/3 (but it only would have taken one vote difference for it to have been null).

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
A good read...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-email-scandal_us_577d08f8e4b09b4c43c1a785
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 04:06pm PT
It's been time to go after CheneyBushCo for years now...but it'll never happen.

Republicans will keep the spotlight on BBBEEENNNNGGGHHHAAAZZZZIIIII and HRC's email faux pas as long as possible.

And the rest of Uh Merri Kuh will wag right along....
Norton

Social climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 04:16pm PT
Libby was convicted and sentenced to over two years in prison,

His "buddy" President Bush interceded and "pardoned" his jail time.

Does this bother anyone who voted for Bush?

or more likely, you voted Republican because you can't stand voting for economic prosperity
Norton

Social climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 04:19pm PT
Blue or Red makes no difference

words usually spoken by uninformed and misinformed high school kids

"makes no difference" - tell that to the thousands who died in Republican Iraq

"makes no difference" - tell that to Locker and twenty million others who now have health care thanks to Democrats

scorecard, bitches
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
Watching Trump right now, he is totally of the wall. Bat-shit crazy.

His golf course, Chuck Todd, sleepy eyes, Saddam, his golf course, his son, crooked Hillary, DOJ is on the take, her husband Bill!! More about him, Bobby Knight, Newt, newt think I'm great, the crooked press, f*#k he is off the wall crazy.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 6, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
Well, Jodi Ernst and Bob Corker, two US Senators being considered for VP by Trump, both just said they are not interested in the job.

Gee, I wonder why...?


Curt

pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Jul 6, 2016 - 05:00pm PT
Is there a correlation between Gri-Gri use and candidate preference?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jul 6, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
Pyro, Bob D needs a reminder....
Norton

Social climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
"I went to an Ivy League school, I'm very highly educated. I know words. I have the best words"

Donald J. Trump

"I went to an Ivy League school, I'm very highly educated. I know words. I have the best words"

"I went to an Ivy League school, I'm very highly educated. I know words. I have the best words"
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 6, 2016 - 05:06pm PT
They don't say anything about Cheney, even though it was Cheney that outed Valerie Plane

I should have been more specific.

Is anyone still gullible enough to think Bush & Co. (Bush, Cheney, Rove and Libby) intentionally outed Valery Plame?

8000+ dead on Bush's watch, no concern,

Does that 8000 number include the 2000+ troop deaths under Obama's watch?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 6, 2016 - 05:15pm PT
No, but it should count 200,000 Iraqi civilians killed by both sides under Dubz watch.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
Character counts:




































































































Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
You repeat the same cesspool of stoopid garbage all day every day here .....


Number 25,882....way to go duck.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 6, 2016 - 05:36pm PT
No, but it should count 200,000 Iraqi civilians killed by both sides under Dubz watch.


I think you know there are problems with that figure, or the way you're portraying it.

Civi deaths happen for many reasons, and you are quite aware of that. Targeting a civilian is much different than collateral damage or enemy troops sheltering with unknown civis.

But I also know that W would be the first one to offer prayers and HONEST regret for those who died innocently in the war. I know this.

The bigger question is how many civilians have died at the hands of terrorists, and why?

I'm gonna start a new thread for this.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 6, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
You Hillary tards are bat sh!t crazy too.

You're 0wned by Trump.

You repeat the same cesspool of stoopid garbage all day every day here .....

Well, thank God. Finally some meaningful content...

Curt
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jul 6, 2016 - 05:57pm PT

Civi deaths happen for many reasons, and you are quite aware of that. Targeting a civilian is much different than collateral damage or enemy troops sheltering with unknown civis.

Dead is dead, dude.

But I also know that W would be the first one to offer prayers and HONEST regret for those who died innocently in the war. I know this.

How do you know this?
First you say you know what trump thinks,
Now you claim to know what bush thinks.
I wish I was as prescient as you.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
"But I also know that W would be the first one to offer prayers and HONEST regret for those who died innocently in the war. I know this."


I can't recall much evidence of this, either. Maybe you're privy to something we've been missing?

Maybe we need a British-style seven year investigation into the Iraq war, and see if W's response is as tearful as Blair's was today.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
"But I also know that W would be the first one to offer prayers and HONEST regret for those who died innocently in the war. I know this."


Bullsh#t, did god tell you like he told Bush to go to war??


Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jul 6, 2016 - 06:49pm PT

But I also know that W would be the first one to offer prayers and HONEST regret for those who died innocently in the war. I know this.

Really?
[Click to View YouTube Video]

No sociopath there, eh, Werner?
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 6, 2016 - 06:58pm PT
For you Bob and crankloon.
Escopeta small surf today.. one car at zero none at leo..
Still lots of fun

Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:09pm PT
Is anyone still gullible enough to think Bush & Co. (Bush, Cheney, Rove and Libby) intentionally outed Valery Plame?

Richard Armitage, Deputy Secretary of State under Bush did indeed intentionally out Valerie Plame. This isn't even controversial--Armitage admits it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Armitage_(politician)

Curt
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
Is anyone still gullible enough to think Bush & Co. (Bush, Cheney, Rove and Libby) intentionally outed Valery Plame?

Is anyone still so incredibly, mindlessly gullible as to think BushCo didn't intentionally out Plame? I mean, did you follow a shred of news at the time? It couldn't have been more blatantly and ham-handedly orchestrated. Every aspect of the outing was intentional and deliberate. But hell, that was treason with a small 't' compared to deliberately manufacturing the intelligence used to go to war.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:12pm PT
Ironic that had H. Clinton been indicted and dropped from the presidential contest, either Biden or Sanders her most likely successors would have beaten Trump even more soundly.

The old biggus dickus smackdown, with little Donald on the losing end of the stick.


[Click to View YouTube Video]



Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:24pm PT
To this day W says he has no regrets and would not change his decisions. I agree that he may not be a sociopath but that degree of denial rises to the level of delusion. Blair is catching hell across the pond today, W should be getting the same.

If you think W was bad (most people do) Trump would be W with a temper and a level of pettiness never before seen in the White House.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
Werner wrote: Just as Bob likes to eat pizza and spaghetti .....



Racist comment there duck??
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
I'd take 20 years of Bush over one year of Trump.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:37pm PT
Ethnic/racist all the same to Werner...thanks Jim.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:39pm PT
some people (Trump every day) cannot control their anger at what they do not have the intelligence to understand and so they lash out like children on a playground
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
Good read: anti-defamation league president calls out Trump for mainstreaming bigotry.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/anti-defamation-league-ceo-trump-must-reject-racists-support/2016/07/06/b5427dae-43c4-11e6-8856-f26de2537a9d_story.html
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
"Bob and the Hillary loons project everything into a negative.

Bob and the Hillary loons are insane ....."


Yes calling everyone stupid is positive in your world.

dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:46pm PT
So that vile piece of trash trump wishes he hadn't pulled the image of Hillary with the Star of David.

He said he regretted removing a tweet that was widely criticized as anti-Semitic for containing an image of Clinton in front of a pile of money with a six-pointed star next to her, the text reading, “Most Corrupt Candidate Ever!” Many observers recognized the Star of David, a symbol of the Jewish faith.

“It’s a star! And it actually looks like a sheriff’s star!” Trump said. “It could’ve been a star for anything

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/donald-trump-pointed-star-225195


He's trash.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 6, 2016 - 07:56pm PT
Actually Werner I don't like spaghetti or Pizza.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
I want “somebody who’s a fiscal, social, defense conservative,” said Sen. James Lankford of Oklahoma. “I’d like to see him have his own Dick Cheney. … Somebody who can (help run an administration) and actually engage” with Congress.

Just what we need - a neo-Cheney.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:03pm PT
"He's trash."

Or stupid to use that image.

Or just plain stupid trash.

Yeah, that's it.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:06pm PT
Bingo, apogee.
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
Best line I heard from a pundit about Trump's rambles tonight.

like a gnat on meth


Susan
Norton

Social climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
yes, just saw that on Lawrence O'Donnell's show on MSNBC, great
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:41pm PT
He said he regretted removing a tweet that was widely criticized as anti-Semitic for containing an image of Clinton in front of a pile of money with a six-pointed star next to her, the text reading, “Most Corrupt Candidate Ever!” Many observers recognized the Star of David, a symbol of the Jewish faith.

What is particularly vile, is that HRC has Jewish relatives, so the "message" is even more offensive.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:52pm PT
Trump Newt!

Trump Newt!

Trump Newt!!!



Hmm. I thought if I threw out this incantation, the whole bloody thing would go 'poof'.

http://fortune.com/2016/07/06/donald-trump-newt-gingrich-will-be-involved-with-our-government/
dirtbag

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 10:55pm PT
Hilary is very lucky trump would rather argue about the Star of David, "Frozen," his remarks praising saddam hussein, and other oddities rather than hammer her. He's blowing it.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 7, 2016 - 01:02am PT
It's actually going to be fine for Hillary in November. No amount of your hysterics is going to change the outcome.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jul 7, 2016 - 04:27am PT
For you Bob and crankloon.
Escopeta small surf today.. one car at zero none at leo..
Still lots of fun

Nice, Bob needed a reminder of what has happened to his brain.

I never liked surfing at Leo Carrillo. I tried to love that surf spot but it never loved me back.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 05:39am PT
bluering posted
I think you know there are problems with that figure, or the way you're portraying it.

Civi deaths happen for many reasons, and you are quite aware of that. Targeting a civilian is much different than collateral damage or enemy troops sheltering with unknown civis.

You're pretending that we bear no responsibility for the hundreds of thousands of people killed and the many more raped/injured when we failed to provide any security for the country, had no real plan for post-invasion stability other than to expect universal adulation for our great accomplishment, allowed sectarian violence to run rampant and supported a sectarian government. All of that is "collateral damage" of the completely unguided munition that was our invasion.


Klimmer posted
POLITICS
Flight logs show Bill Clinton flew on sex offender's jet much more than previously known
By Malia Zimmerman
Published May 13, 2016
FoxNews.com

I alerted you to this information last week or the week before. You forgot to include the part about how Trump is being accused of joining that same "sex offender" in raping a 13 year old girl.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 05:45am PT
Werner posted
You Hillary loons think eating spaghetti and pizza is racist .....

Depends. Is the spaghetti being served at a white supremacist social gathering? Is the pizza cut into the Star of David with "Corruption and Greed" spelled out in pepperoni? Cause, yeah that would be pretty racist.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 06:17am PT
Wheat power!
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jul 7, 2016 - 06:43am PT
Epstein and Trump: good.

Epstein and Clinton: bad.

Thanks for the laugh, Klimmer.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 7, 2016 - 06:49am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

So far 2 of my FB friends have jumped the hillary ship..
dirtbag

climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 06:51am PT
Stay on topic pyro.

Trump is still trash.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 7, 2016 - 07:03am PT
Ignorant voters are jumping the hillary ship by the second..

Crankloon dirt heads are.....
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 07:06am PT
Klimmer: Unwilling to believe there isn't an Ark on the Moon. Totally willing to believe anything Trump says. Maybe we should ask Trump if there's an Ark on the Moon?


http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/

Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery
He's pals with a passel of Nobel Prize–winning scientists, CEOs like Leslie Wexner of the Limited, socialite Ghislaine Maxwell, even Donald Trump. But it wasn't until he flew Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey, and Chris Tucker to Africa on his private Boeing 727 that the world began to wonder who he is.


http://www.dailywire.com/news/5749/both-trump-and-clinton-went-jeffrey-epsteins-sex-amanda-prestigiacomo

The Republican presumptive nominee apparently got in on the action, too. Trump’s ties to Epstein — a man Trump once called a “terrific guy” — and Sex Slave Island have been chronicled by The Daily Wire here.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/5556/7-things-you-need-know-about-trump-and-sex-slave-amanda-prestigiacomo

Here are seven connections between Trump and Epstein's sex slave endeavors that you need to know about:

1.Trump himself has said that Epstein is “a lot of fun to be with,” adding that he admired the sex offender's affinity for beautiful women “on the younger side.”

"I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,'' Trump once said about the convicted sex offender. "He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it -- Jeffrey enjoys his social life."

2. Trump was named in Epstein’s “little black book.”

Epstein’s “little black book” was stolen by a former employee in 2004. The book, nicknamed "The Holy Grail" by the employee, revealed the name of Donald Trump and listed “14 phone numbers including emergency numbers, car numbers, and numbers to Trump's security guard and houseman.”

3. Trump has allegedly flown on Epstein’s private plane — a hot spot for under-age sex orgies.

“Mark Epstein, Jeffrey's brother, testified in 2009 that Trump flew on Jeffrey's private jet at least once,” reports VICE News. “Meanwhile, message pads [see below] from Epstein's Palm Beach mansion that were seized by investigators and obtained by VICE News indicate that Trump called Epstein twice in November of 2004.”

Epstein’s private Boeing 727, according to one of his alleged victims, Virginia Roberts, was nicknamed the “Lolita Express.” Roberts recalled “unsavoury” sex orgies on the private plane when she was just 15 years of age with Epstein and his friends.

4. Both Trump and Epstein are named as sex abusers in a case with an under-aged girl.

Radar Online reports that a woman in California, “identified” as Katie Johnson, filed a $100 million lawsuit against Trump on April 26, accusing the real estate mogul of raping her when she was just 13 years old.

Johnson “claims Trump raped her when she was 13-years-old and forced her to engage in sex acts by threatening to harm her and her family,” notes The Independent UK. “She claims the alleged abuse took place over a four-month period at underage sex parties held in New York City in 1994.” Epstein was also named for alleged sexual misconduct and threats.

Trump’s team adamantly denies the accusation, suspecting the claim is possibly a hoax since there is allegedly “no evidence” the plaintiff “actually exists.”

5. Epstein admitted to knowing Trump under oath, and curiously pled the fifth to Trump attending sex parties with underage girls.

Back in 2010, Epstein admitted to “socializing” with Trump, but when a lawyer representing an under-aged victim of Epstein’s asked if he has “ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of females under the age of 18,” Epstein curiously pled the Fifth. Per Vice News:

Q: Have you ever had a personal relationship with Donald Trump?
A. What do you mean by "personal relationship," sir?
Q. Have you socialized with him?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Yes?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever socialized with Donald Trump in the presence of females under the age of 18?
A: Though I'd like to answer that question, at least today I'm going to have to assert my Fifth, Sixth, and 14th Amendment rights, sir.

6. At least one of Epstein’s underage sex victims was recruited from Trump’s Mar-a-Lago — which he frequented often.

Virginia Roberts, an alleged victim of Epstein’s, "was recruited to perform a massage for Epstein while working as a $9-per-hour locker room attendant at Mar-A-Lago.”

Roberts claims that “Epstein turned her into a ‘sex slave’ and pimped her out to various friends, including England's Prince Andrew. Over the years, the passengers on Epstein's jet, she said, included ‘a whole bunch of other girls, sometimes famous people, sometimes some politicians.'"

7. Trump was subpoenaed in 2009 for his connection to Epstein’s under-age sex slave rings. Trump has denied ever being served.

In 2009, Trump was subpoenaed in a case against Epstein concerning victim Virginia Roberts. Trump's attorney Alan Garten said that the subpoena "never happened."

"There is no debate over what happened," said one of Roberts' attorneys. "I served Mr. Trump with a subpoena for deposition in 2009. He talked to me voluntarily, and consequently we withdrew the subpoena in light of his voluntarily providing information…. I can't imagine there being any dispute of any of this."

Additionally, Garten told VICE News in January that Mr. Trump has "no relationship" with Epstein other than the Democratic donor frequenting Trump's Mar-A-Lago. "A lot of people hung out there, including Jeffrey Epstein," said Garten. "That is the only connection."

According to the evidence, however, the connections with Epstein appear to go a lot deeper than that.




tl;dr- Trump is completely full of sh#t and obviously knows Epstein.


Also, he probably boned underage girls.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 7, 2016 - 07:15am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]


This guy is pretty good!
Long hair hippy style..
dirtbag

climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 07:17am PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 7, 2016 - 07:24am PT
Dirtbag and crankloon are both need a ride!
Can somebody help them..


[Click to View YouTube Video]
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 7, 2016 - 07:55am PT
All of Hillary's 'transgressions' amount to so much flap doodle compared to the deliberate treasons of the last three repub administrations.

Let's put it this way - Lincoln, Eisenhower, Nixon, Goldwater and Reagan would all be voting for Hillary this year if alive.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:01am PT
Hillary is POLITICALLY INDICTED...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Like a chicken with her head cut off!

Crankloon and dirtwho i found you a song



Edit: get grip healyje
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:02am PT
The FBI said they could not bring a case that showed that she broke the law.

Literally everyone is "politically indicted." That's called "modern politics."
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:03am PT
Let's talk about Trump's platform!
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:03am PT
Let's put it this way - Lincoln, Eisenhower, Nixon, Goldwater and Reagan would all be voting for Hillary this year if alive.

Riiiight. And Bush & Co intentionally outed Plame.

Keep 'em coming Healy.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:04am PT
Wait, you're really in denial about them outing Plame? Really?
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:06am PT
And Bush & Co intentionally outed Plame.

Yes. They did. I guess you didn't bother to read the link I provided that proves this.

Curt
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:07am PT
The FBI said they could not bring a case that showed that she broke the law.

Would... could

Potayto... potahto
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:13am PT
http://www.politico.com/blogs/james-comey-testimony/2016/07/james-comey-clinton-not-lie-fbi-225212

Hillary Clinton did not lie to FBI investigators during their probe into her use of a private server as secretary of state, FBI Director James Comey testified Thursday.
"We have no basis to conclude she lied to the FBI," Comey told House Oversight Chairman Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) during one of the hearing's opening exchanges.


Would... could

Potayto... potahto

So your point is that they are different but equal ways of saying the same thing? I think what you meant was "I decided that Clinton was a criminal because it satisfies my personal worldview and the only reason she wasn't indicted was because of corruption and not because my worldview is horribly flawed."
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:18am PT
Riiiight. And Bush & Co intentionally outed Plame.


And you likely believe the yellow cake story too, right?
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:25am PT
Riiiight. And Bush & Co intentionally outed Plame.

correct, and the available evidence points strong to this

lots of credible sources if one is interested and knows how to google
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:26am PT
Yes. They did. I guess you didn't bother to read the link I provided that proves this.

Curt

Actually they didn't. I read your link. It said nothing about the leak being part of a retaliatory effort by Bush & Co., for Joe Wilson's op-ed.

Armitage's participation was little more than gossip. There was no conspiracy. It was just a witch hunt. Fitzgerald knew Armitage was the leak from the start, yet he continued his investigation for over two years. No connection was shown between Armitage's disclosure and any alleged conspiracy by Bush & Co.

Edit: Nice to see K-man and Norton have joined Team Kool Aid.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:31am PT
Summer is always a good time for Congressional Inquiries.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:32am PT
Polls have shown for awhile that Donald Trump has a solid lead among white voters without a college education. What about those with a college education?

That group tends to vote Republican in presidential elections, but it looks like Trump will lose that group of voters for the GOP for the first time in 60 years.


Much to the GOP’s dismay, Hillary Clinton is actually competitive in states such as Georgia, Arizona, Utah and Kansas. Romney won these states by an average of 21.5 points
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:37am PT
Armitage's participation was little more than gossip.

Good Lord, you're dense. Armitage has freely admitted he outed Plame.

Armitage admits leaking Plame's identity
POSTED: 2:39 a.m. EDT, September 8, 2006

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage acknowledged Thursday that he was the source who first revealed the identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame to syndicated columnist Robert Novak back in 2003, touching off a federal investigation...

Curt
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:45am PT
That group tends to vote Republican in presidential elections, but it looks like Trump will lose that group of voters for the GOP for the first time in 60 years.

According to Gallup, Obama won college educated voters in '12. In '08, he won college educated and college grad only.

First time in 60 years? Um yeah... okay.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/139880/election-polls-presidential-vote-groups.aspx
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:47am PT

More CIA agents should be outted, particularly the paid torturers.
DMT

If trump is elected, there will be a hiring fair at the CIA.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:50am PT
read closer, try
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:53am PT
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:54am PT
Edward, read white educated college voters, white being the key word.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:59am PT
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 7, 2016 - 09:02am PT
Good Lord, you're dense. Armitage has freely admitted he outed Plame.

Come on Curt. Try to keep up. I never disputed Armitage being the leak. I said the leak wasn't part of an effort Bush & Co. (identified as Bush, Cheney, Rove and Libby) to intentionally out Valery Plame.

You guys wanted it to be true for so long that you forgot to educate yourselves on outcome of Fitzgerald's investigation.

Yes, Scooter Libby was found guilty of numerous charges. But I don't think any of those charges proved Bush & Co intentionally outed Plame.

Armitage outed her. Inadvertently. He was being a gossip.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 09:05am PT
Trump May Become The First Republican In 60 Years To Lose White College Graduates


While Trump is outperforming your run-of-the-mill Republican among whites without a college degree, he’s underperforming among white voters with a college degree. In fact, he is on a track to lose white college graduates.

That’s really unusual for a Republican, and it means that among white voters overall, he’s probably not holding a winning hand.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-may-become-the-first-republican-in-60-years-to-lose-white-college-graduates/
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 09:08am PT
CIA leak scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 09:12am PT
Trump's dwindling VP options depress senators


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/trump-veep-bob-corker-joni-ernst-225187
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 7, 2016 - 09:14am PT
Kman:
Let's talk about Trump's platform!

Exactly!
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Jul 7, 2016 - 09:16am PT
Somedays going through my email can be pretty entertaining. Check out one of todays finds;

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 7, 2016 - 09:48am PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 7, 2016 - 09:52am PT
So why did you vote for that guy (twice), pyro?
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 10:02am PT
So why did you vote for John McCain in 08 when the US economy was in Recession and losing 500,000 jobs a MONTH when he said he had no plans to change any of the Republican Bush Administration's "policies" that directly led to the Recession through lack of financial regulation?

So why did you then again vote for Republican Romney in 2012 with same no change economic policies?

any plans to graduate from high school this year?
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 7, 2016 - 10:12am PT
I've always wondered if Bush was as stupid as he acted. If it was just an act, it was a damn good one and might make him the smartest in the room.

Still wouldn't surprise me if Hillary is really just Cheney wearing her old facial skin. Ever seen the two in the same picture recently??!

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 7, 2016 - 10:17am PT
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 7, 2016 - 10:23am PT


It looks to me like Trump wants to immediately repeal Obamacare and replace it with something everyone can afford. I got that info from his website and I did not see any specifics regarding his plan other than everyone can afford it.

Does anyone here have any info on what his plan might consist of?

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 7, 2016 - 10:29am PT
"Does anyone here have any info on what his plan might consist of?"


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 7, 2016 - 10:31am PT
Umm....does anyone have the details for any of Trump's plans to 'Make America Great'?
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 10:31am PT
Does anyone here have any info on what his plan might consist of?

simple

just eliminate health insurance companies denying coverage for pre existing conditions

then go back to the good old days when one company dominated an entire state

don't forget to include knocking 20 million people off of Medicaid

take away the subsidies for low income people so they can't buy healthcare

eliminate the cap on the health insurance companies profits

bring back Leave It to Beaver
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 7, 2016 - 10:39am PT
like this one:

Dems are clueless of his fact.

You must not know many or have meaningful convos with any? I know a fair number and most know this and the idea of HRC is toxic to them.


OK, Klimmer let's hear them. I can't find any specifics of his plan in regards to: what it will take, why it is better, a thoroughly vetted outline, and how everyone can afford it.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 7, 2016 - 10:40am PT
Umm....does anyone have the details for any of Trump's plans to 'Make America Great'?

His job is to provide the illusion of a choice in this election and to place Hillary on the throne. She'll be a good murderous puppet.

Oh, and also to provide entertainment, that can't be understated. The citizens are both horrified, amused, and confused!

Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 10:55am PT

Trump: HEALTHCARE REFORM TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

like I said


simple

just eliminate health insurance companies denying coverage for pre existing conditions

then go back to the good old days when one company dominated an entire state

don't forget to include knocking 20 million people off of Medicaid

take away the subsidies for low income people so they can't buy healthcare

eliminate the cap on the health insurance companies profits

bring back Leave It to Beaver
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 7, 2016 - 10:57am PT
The more I review the FBI report, the more this reminds me of the "plausible deniability" Poindexter described in the Iran-Contra affair. I simply cannot find sufficient evidence of criminal liability by Clinton herself (as opposed, possibly, to underlings) in the handling of classified information.

Obstruction of justice, on the other hand, probably isn't dead, because of emails that were not produced but were relevant to the investigation, but even that seems a dubious charge to me, at least against Clinton herself. Again, there are too many layers to pin the required scienter on her.

In fact, however, she isn't being judged for criminal liability; she is being judged for fitness as POTUS. Unfortunately, there exists no disqualification for office other than those set forth in Article I of the Constitution. If bad character disqualified a candidate, certainly we'd be rid of a choice for Trump. Besides the obvious results of his "filterectomy" (to quote "Pearls Before Swine"), anyone who stiffs subs the way he has fails my personal character test. The destruction of the Clinton campaign's explanations of the email scandal in the FBI report would doubtless do the same for her candidacy.

In the real world, we don't get perfect candidates. What many Trump supporters fail to realize is that most of the public does not view Trump as particularly intelligent; rather, they view him as merely privileged. Thus, for many, the choice is between having a smart crook or a dumb crook as POTUS. (Just to be less unclear, I'm talking perception, not necessarily fact when I use the word "crook.")

I think, in the end, enough of the electorate won't be as concerned about Clinton's emails as they will be about Trump's mouth - and the extent it reflects the apparent vacuum in his head. The emails will remain an issue throughout the campaign, but they won't be all that important in determining its outcome.

John
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 7, 2016 - 11:01am PT
Norton

read closer, try

Bob spelled it out for me.

Derp, derp, derp.

Edit: The "derp, derp, derp" was about me... being a dumbass.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 11:11am PT
Bob spelled it out for me.

you should be embarrassed at having to have someone else explain it to you

try taking personal responsibility

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 7, 2016 - 11:12am PT
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 11:14am PT
Norton it doesn't say that. You're just making up Bovine Dung.

not making anything up, klimmer

repeal of the ACA as Trump want to do WILL do away with everything I said

I assume you have read the entire ACA, right? or course not, how about a lil summary bunky?

http://obamacarefacts.com/affordablecareact-summary/
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 7, 2016 - 11:37am PT
Apogee ur head exploded..
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 7, 2016 - 11:38am PT
Klimmer, did you read the link you sent me? There aren't any specifics that tie any of the ideas on his website to reality.

He states he'll get Mexico to pay for the wall. How will he do this? Has he collaborated with any other leaders on this idea?

Nevermind, I just read this:
Ap,

Context.

It was meant to elevate, appreciate, and give his daughter confidence about her beauty. It was also meant to get a laugh from his audience. And it worked. They laughed.

You Hillary lovers love to say things out of context. But that's lying.

I doubt you can answer any question objectively. So far I haven't seen it and the above is enough for me.

Carry on
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jul 7, 2016 - 11:39am PT
I think, in the end, enough of the electorate won't be as concerned about Clinton's emails as they will be about Trump's mouth - and the extent it reflects the apparent vacuum in his head. The emails will remain an issue throughout the campaign, but they won't be all that important in determining its outcome.

John


John, I think your are correct in your prediction. Trump is his own worst enemy.... can't keep from saying dumb things. But that is like all of the republicans who were in this race, dumb as bricks... esp JEB!

I thought somebody who has amassed a fortune, built things, organized a worldwide enterprise..... would somehow see that to win the American Electorate he needs to talk a different line than he did in the primary.

HRC's e-mail and the Benghazi deal is just a little preview into how a Clinton2 presidency is going to look like.

Looks like another disaster in the making for our Nation.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 7, 2016 - 11:56am PT
Hey Guy-

I thought somebody who has amassed a fortune, built things, organized a worldwide enterprise..... would somehow see that to win the American Electorate he needs to talk a different line than he did in the primary.

You'd think eh?! He acts more like someone who didn't earn it and he didn't. If he did I'd expect he would know how to get things done. Same with his platform; it is built upon LOUD taking and nothing more.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 7, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
My favorite part about watching Donald lose will be the millions of exploding heads running around America.

Fortunately, most of them will have their white hoods on to contain the mess. Icky.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 12:14pm PT
My Facebook feed is saying there are stories that the Trump campaign is suggesting daughter Ivanka as VP.

Oh why the hell not..... I mean, if the GOP wasn't concerned about Sarah Palin as POTUS in the event of Romney's death, why be concerned to have Ivanka Trump?


Sadly, in the story, two men are quoted as including beauty as one of her qualifications. Can you IMAGINE suggesting a man was suitable for VP because he was nice to look at????
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article88149247.html
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jul 7, 2016 - 12:15pm PT
Fortunately, most of them will have their white hoods on to contain the mess. Icky.


App ..... I honestly don't know about Trump being a bigot, raciest, hateful like you all claim.

I did ask for a specific link for something he said but i guess it can't be found.

Wanting to find a fix for the immigration problem in this country makes Trump unique among ALL of the politicians, Democrat, Republicans, Independents and any other party.

Whats so bad about that?

The current "policy" of do nothing has not worked for the last 30 years.

It has made a permanent underclass of illegal people. (human beings with lives)

It has made disregard for the rule of Law the norm in many states.

Its just plain bad for all involved.

For those of you who care... I have said before:"Anybody but a Bush or a Clinton."

I will vote for whoever meets that criteria.

good day to you all.

edit to add (human...)
c wilmot

climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
I mean, if the GOP wasn't concerned about Sarah Palin as POTUS in the event of Romney's death


Palin was McCain's VP
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 7, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
Personally, I think The Donald is going to suggest that he will be the first POTUS candidate in US history to not seek a VP choice.

He's got this...it's all about The Donald, and if there's one thing narcissists can't stand, it's sharing the spotlight with anyone. Besides...who could possibly pair with his 'greatness'?
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
^ My error - getting old and senile(and lazy that I didn't double check before posting!)
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jul 7, 2016 - 12:19pm PT
Sara Palin is the reason I did not vote for Mccain.... that showed supreme bad judgment on his part.

So much so, I figured SOMBODY did really pull his strings.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jul 7, 2016 - 12:25pm PT
But that is like all of the republicans who were in this race, dumb as bricks... esp JEB!

Yeah, who would have thought George was the smart one.

Say what you want about his policy stances, Kasich is not stupid.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
World’s Top Banker Says Trump Would Choke The Global Economy


*IMF chief Christine Lagarde said the Republican candidate’s antitrade policies could be “disastrous.”

pledges to shred major trade pacts, like the North American Free Trade Agreement ― would make things much worse.

“I think it would be quite disastrous actually,” Lagarde told the Times. “Well I don’t think I should say disastrous because that is an excessive word and I should refrain from excessive words. But it would certainly have a negative impact on global growth.”
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 7, 2016 - 12:51pm PT
Ha ha ha ha. Klimster will love this one, although she's 35, a little old for him.

Could Donald Trump keep the White House in the family?

Well, according to his son Eric Trump and surrogate Sen. Bob Corker (who took himself out of the running to be veep Wednesday), Ivanka Trump would be a great pick to share the ticket with the presumptive Republican nominee.

On Wednesday, after saying he didn’t want to be considered any longer, Corker told NBC that Trump’s daughter may just be the best pick.

"His best running mate, by the way, would be Ivanka. I know that wouldn't pass muster, probably. But I don't know that I've met a more composed, brilliant, beautiful-in-every-way person," Corker said.

Ivanka’s brother agrees. When asked about the comments on Fox & Friends Thursday, he raved about his sister’s beauty and brains.

“She’s got the beautiful looks. She’s smart, she’s smart, smart, smart. Yeah, she’s certainly got my vote,” he said.

Edit: Sorry, didn't see the post above.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 7, 2016 - 12:55pm PT
Werner i was just going to say that Nortons head exploded..
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 7, 2016 - 12:59pm PT
No explanation necessary.........

Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 7, 2016 - 01:10pm PT
^^^ at least there is something semi-smart and might contain substance in locker's post
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jul 7, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
but making fun is coo if you are talking about dating your daughter.

got it.

Klimmer, you haven't provided any factual info in regards to Donald's plans to run the country, only a link to his website that lacks information that can be tested.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 7, 2016 - 01:34pm PT
Klimmer, do you totally lack the sense known as irony? Do you understand what tongue-in-cheek means (no, not the kissing stuff)?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 7, 2016 - 01:44pm PT
World’s Top Banker Says Trump Would Choke The Global Economy


*IMF chief Christine Lagarde said the Republican candidate’s antitrade policies could be “disastrous.”

I'm glad to see I have company this time. See, e.g.:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2644858&msg=2788378#msg2788378

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2669435&msg=2836867#msg2836867

Does that mean I could be a competent economist after all?

[For those who care, this is a comment for Norton, who pointed out that a position I took on an issue several years ago differed from that of George Soros, so he asked if I thought I was a better economist than Soros. I foolishly replied that if that position is what Soros really believes, then I am. He never lets me forget it. I am therefore pleased to see Norton posting something that is almost verbatim what I said about Trump's trade position. Of course, on the merits (or demerits) of a Trump candidacy , Norton and I, miracolously, largely agree.]

John
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jul 7, 2016 - 01:47pm PT
Say what you want about his policy stances, Kasich is not stupid.


True that.... but quiet as a mouse during all of the "debates" ... he offered up no red meat to feed the mass of disatisfied republican voters. He just couldn't "get it up" when he needed to... same for the rest of them except for Cruz.

But Americans will never vote for a preacher or someone who talks and acts like one.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 7, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
"But Americans will never vote for a preacher or someone who talks and acts like one. "


Sounds good to me!
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 7, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
Trump can even make our batshit crazy AZ Senators seem reasonable by contrast. That's quite a feat.

Curt
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jul 7, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
My Facebook feed is saying there are stories that the Trump campaign is suggesting daughter Ivanka as VP.

lol. he can't find anyone of substance to run with him, so he has to pick a family member. He might be reduced to picking the family pet.

I'd rather see his other daughter, the 22yr old party girl as a veep candidate. She's is the one that's in the pictures for eye candy, but probably can't spell eye candy.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 7, 2016 - 02:14pm PT
More of Trump's exchange today with Senator Flake:

Flake told Trump that he wants to be able to support him — “I’m not part of the Never Trump movement,” the senator said — but that he remains uncomfortable backing his candidacy, the officials said. Trump said at the meeting that he has yet to attack Flake hard but threatened to begin doing so. Flake stood up to Trump by urging him to stop attacking Mexicans. Trump predicted that Flake would lose his reelection, at which point Flake informed Trump that he was not on the ballot this year, the sources said.

Awesome. Trump doesn't even know which Senators are up for election this year. Dumbass.

Curt
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 02:18pm PT


[quote]Jul 7, 2016 - 01:49pm PT
"But Americans will never vote for a preacher or someone who talks and acts like one. "


um

Think Jimmy Carter
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 7, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
Would Donald Trump Quit if He Wins the Election? He Doesn’t Rule It Out

“He has no sense of how to govern,” Mr. Stevens said. “He can’t even put together a campaign.”
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 7, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
If only he would quit before the nomination . . .

John
trailridge127

Trad climber
Loveland, CO
Jul 7, 2016 - 03:00pm PT
What a joke this election is. There was serious discussion today about whether Hillary is responsible enough to handle classified information. Considering she botched it with her private servers. Then trump....
The politics of our country has evolved into a cesspool of corrupt, already paid for prostitutes.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jul 7, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
Oh not really.... Prostitutes generally don't kill people gleefully.

A straight up prostitute would actually be a good choice. They've got a real job, know what it's like to be a target, have to pay for things....
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 03:16pm PT
Trump hired this black guy from among his millions of black friends to try to scare up a VP, in case newt croaks.




If the pig dies too?

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 7, 2016 - 03:48pm PT
My Facebook feed is saying there are stories that the Trump campaign is suggesting daughter Ivanka as VP.

Bob Corker was the source of that rumor. When Corker jumped ship he made a comment that Trumps daughter would make a good VP. I am sure Trump has tried to figure out a way to pull that off.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 7, 2016 - 04:27pm PT
I watched the Congressional hearing with Dir. of FBI Comey today. It was a long hearing but a great hearing. Much has come out of the hearing. Now the FBI has to provide much more and the case is not over. Much more to do and provide.

Comey was caught in a web of illogical reasoning.

A pundit has said he believes after all the evidence that the FBI Director Comey had concerning Hillary Clinton, did not want to go down in history as the one who brought down Hillary Clinton, and to finish off her political aspirations to be President. He did not want to be put in that position, but the FBI laid out the facts to do so.

The facts are laid out that she is guilty, but he did not want to draw that conclusion. The transcript of the hearing must be available somewhere.

It's bad for Hillary today. It's real bad.

It's good that you watched the hearing and unfortunate that you don't seem to understand what happened.

Curt
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 7, 2016 - 04:30pm PT
crankloon ur no name avatar women behind the computers head just exploded..

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jul 7, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
My Facebook feed is saying there are stories that the Trump campaign is suggesting daughter Ivanka as VP.

Mine says he's going to nominate his horse, Incitatus.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 7, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
It's good that you watched the hearing and unfortunate that you don't seem to understand what happened.

Curt

Love the irony.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 7, 2016 - 04:49pm PT
This is all I have to say....for now. http://www.seattlepi.com/local/politics/article/Clinton-up-by-9-points-in-intensely-watched-8346631.php


http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article88085407.html
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 7, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
Love the irony.

Says the guy completely ignorant of the Plame affair.

Curt
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 7, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
Now the FBI has to do further investigations and deliver evidence fhat they did and didn't look into.

Nope. Not going to happen. Sorry.

Curt
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 7, 2016 - 04:59pm PT
Open and shut case says Ark On The Moon man.
Strange, the Director of the FBI doesn't see it that way.

The Republicans will waste another 10 million dollars to get nowhere.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jul 7, 2016 - 05:07pm PT
"Ready for Donald ?"

Well, no.

Why do you ask?

Please bring me up to speed on this entire thread and subject.
Has anything important been said?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 7, 2016 - 05:14pm PT
http://www.dailynewsbin.com/news/trey-gowdy-caught-using-his-own-private-email-server/22908/comment-page-1/#comment-46703
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
FBI director says he's no longer a registered Republican

At today's Hearing:


Even though he has been a registered Republican for most of his adult life, FBI Director James Comey testified Thursday that he is no longer a registered member of the GOP.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/james-comey-testimony/2016/07/what-party-is-james-comey-registered-as-225223#ixzz4DlzEN016
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 7, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
Klimmer saw a different hearing. All I saw was Comey owning the people from the witch hunt over and over.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 7, 2016 - 05:47pm PT
It's sure lucky that school's out for the summer.....allows for some 'binge watching'. Too bad it doesn't allow for comprehension.

Question to self: Comprehension is a pretty big word; Trump has the 'best words'; therefore .... what? Klimmer, pop quiz!
Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
“I went to an Ivy League school.  I’m very highly educated.  I know words.  I have the best words,”
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 7, 2016 - 06:19pm PT
Klimmer,

Comey will give all the information that led to not charging Hillary to the Congressional hearing.

That's what subordinate agencies are required to do when asked by publicly elected officials. He'll spill his guts just to make sure that someone like you has all the information regarding this issue, that resulted in no charges.

Correct. There will be no further FBI investigation of this matter. Klimmer is truly dumber than a sack of hammers.

Curt

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jul 7, 2016 - 06:30pm PT
Norton.... Jimmy Carter was not a preacher type. He was a Farmer, Ex-navy, who taught Sunday school.

Preachers speak in some sort of cadence, that they all learn at the seminary.... EZ to tell the difference.

PS I voted for Jimmy... an honest man.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
State Dept. has reopened it's investigation of Clinton email.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/state-department-will-resume-clinton-email-probe-1467938397


Like I said, well before this guy, who responded to it:

Well, SOMEONE, must have introduced classified information into the email streams that Hillary Clinton participated in on her private server and email account. So SOMEONE has some explaining to do. There are going to be some security clearances pulled at a minimum. Maybe some persons taking the Fifth too?


One thing for sure, no congressman would have had the balls to call Jedgar to testify before a dumb committee.

Addendum:

The encryption methods used to secure today’s Internet communications won’t be impenetrable forever. More powerful “quantum computers” on the horizon could very well crack them.


Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 7, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
Republicans Had Another Banner Day of Stupid

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a46529/republicans-comey-hearings/

Curt
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 7, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
“I am a constitutionalist. I am going to abide by the Constitution whether it’s number 1, number 2, number 12, number 9,” Trump responded. “I am a constitutionalist. I’m going to abide by the Constitution . . . It’s so important, and we’re getting away from it. And let me tell you, we have gotten so far away from it, we’re not going to have a country anymore.”



Trump is incredible.

He is completely clueless, but tries to come across as the guy with all the answers.


"And let me tell you . . . . . . . . . "

"I have all the best words"





Norton

Social climber
Jul 7, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
Family Values: Eric Trump Says His Sister Is Hot Enough To Be His Dad’s Vice President (VIDEO)

It appears Eric has taken after his dad in routinely objectifying and sexualizing the women in the Trump family. Donald Trump has spoken at length about the attractiveness of both of his daughters, including musing about the eventual size of daughter Tiffany’s breasts while she was still an infant. For Ivanka he’s said (joked?) several times that she is so attractive that he would be dating her if she weren’t his own offspring.

http://addictinginfo.org/2016/07/07/family-values-eric-trump-says-his-sister-is-hot-enough-to-be-his-dads-vice-president-video/


Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:27pm PT
[youtube=http://www.cc.com/video-clips/hg1z7s/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-imagining-president-trump-s-cabinet]

Yep.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 7, 2016 - 08:47pm PT
Norton.... Jimmy Carter was not a preacher type. He was a Farmer, Ex-navy, who taught Sunday school.

He STILL teaches Sunday School. I have a friend who took her family a couple of years ago, and she found it to be a interesting experience. She is not devout, and is an engineer by trade.

President Carter’s Schedule

July 3, 10, 24, 31

August 14

September 4, 11, 18, 25

http://www.mbcplains.org/?page_id=212
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 8, 2016 - 01:22am PT
"His best running mate by the way would be Ivanka," [Sen.] Corker advised.

Dumb and dumber. Staggeringly stupid that it would be suggested in jest. Almost as staggeringly stupid as the gop's years-long hillary witchathon.

Bears repeating...

Rep. Tim Walberg (R-Mich.) asked Trump what his understanding was of Article 1, given congressional concerns about the balance of power.

Trump: “I am a constitutionalist. I am going to abide by the Constitution whether it’s number 1, number 2, number 12, number 9,” Trump responded. “I am a constitutionalist. I’m going to abide by the Constitution . . . It’s so important, and we’re getting away from it. And let me tell you, we have gotten so far away from it, we’re not going to have a country anymore.”

The Constitution has only seven articles. Trump did not speak about Article 1 specifically.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:15am PT
Dumb ass republicans, this country has major social issues and all they are worried about is Hillary's emails.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:19am PT
Dumb ass republicans, this country has major social issues and all they are worried about is Hillary's emails.

Dumbass Supertopians, this country has major social issues and all they are worried about are political pissing matches on a climbing forum.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:22am PT
The difference, Edward, is that none of us polititards are in political office somewhere, with the responsibility to actually act on the will of the people.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:26am PT
No?

Really?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:28am PT
False equivalencies (like yours) are soooo tiresome.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:59am PT
Well Klimner, just in case you missed it, apparently they are not investigating H. Clinton, but rather they are looking for the folks who sent her emails.

It shouldn't be too hard since the FBI has found 110 emails in 52 chains [out of 30,000 plus emails].

If it were me, I'd just ask the FBI for a list.

It would be very interesting to me to see the actual emails, with the security stuff redacted of course.

Probably will never happen though. Nobody wants to show how the bureaucrats waste their time.



Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 8, 2016 - 08:22am PT
deja vu all over again

[Click to View YouTube Video]
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 8, 2016 - 08:27am PT
False equivalencies (like yours) are soooo tiresome.

It was a joke.

Sorry you missed it.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jul 8, 2016 - 08:31am PT
Nobody wants to show how the bureaucrats waste their time


So True...... 27,000 post on Super Topo will make you look bad.... :>)


peace to all
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 08:34am PT
^Thing is - nobody here gets paid, except CMac.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 08:52am PT
Edward posted
It was a joke.

Sorry you missed it.

Either none of your jokes seem to land because they are indiscernible from your non-jokes or this is just your standard defense to bad posting.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 8, 2016 - 09:18am PT
My seven year old could read this law, ...

For some reason, your credibility as being objective just went down a few notches.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 8, 2016 - 09:22am PT
Dumbass Supertopians, this country has major social issues and all they are worried about are political pissing matches on a climbing forum.
    EdwardT

It was a joke.
    EdwardT


Good thing you don't earn a living telling jokes, Ed. They are almost as bad as your non-joke postings.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Jul 8, 2016 - 10:06am PT
I am not as worried about the email issue as I am about her lying endlessly and her obstruction of justice by clearly withholding almost half her emails when she said public ally that she turned everything over. I would rather have a truthful as#@&%e than a dishonest sycophant as a coworker or president.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 10:08am PT
Really? Who is the truthful as#@&%e?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 10:54am PT
Bigger liar, bigger liar - pants on fire.

Trump wins the "bigger" contest (hands down).



Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 8, 2016 - 11:15am PT
What did Comey's testimony reveal about Clinton probe?

That there will be no charges brought.

Curt
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 11:20am PT
About time some of Trump's critics dig in with the same tenacity as the "Republicans with nothing better to do" crowd, even though they don't need to.



Coach37

Social climber
Philly
Jul 8, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
Some people just don't want to look into their background. They are scared. They'll be horrified. So they look away and bury their heads hoping it will all go away

Sounds like Trump's tax returns. What could he possibly be hiding? Either that he's nowhere near as rich as he claims, lied about his charitable donations, cheated on his taxes, or all three.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 8, 2016 - 01:28pm PT
Klimmer, get your Hillary Hating off this f*#king thread.


There is a Ready For Hillary? topic where people can post valuable, newly-discovered rants, facts and clues about Benghazmailgate.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 8, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
Well, add Jews to the list of groups that Trump has apparently totally alienated.

Wow.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 8, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
Trump is now threatening a lawsuit over his campaign hats. He says that the Los Angeles company that makes the hats may have defrauded him, and delivered foreign-made goods. Unlike the rest of the Trump clothing line, his Make America Great Again hats are marked MADE IN USA to confer a modicum of integrity upon the Trump campaign.


But, investigators have discovered irregularities in the manufacturing of the hats, suggesting they were not entirely made in America. This would violate Federal laws regulating pompous boasts of Made in USA.

Trump's response to the sartorial crisis is that he paid a good price for USA-made frippery, and that he intends to sue Cali-Fame, the milliner, if it turns out they attempted to out-Trump the master of business chicanery himself, Donald Trump.



The AP review included a microscopic analysis of five hats bought from Trump's campaign website. The analysis showed the fabric in one was of a different type than that made by the supplier the manufacturer (Cali-Fame) told the AP provides all his hat fabric.

In addition to the fabric analysis, two of the manufacturer's employees, including a top sales agent, said the hats' fabric, bills and stiffeners were imported.



In fine Trumpian fashion, Brian Kennedy, the Mad Hatter, denied using imported material, but he couldn't explain the fabric discrepancy. He also stated, without explanation, that his two whistle-blower employees "were wrong".




http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/Trump-hats-show-challenge-of-proving-products-are-8347372.php


survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 8, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
Well, add Jews to the list of groups that Trump has apparently totally alienated.

Something new, or the star thing?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 8, 2016 - 02:39pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^ . . . . . . Let me count the ways . . . . . .


Trump alienated Jewish people months ago, when he stereotyped them as being hard-nosed negotiators, like Trump likes to think of himself.

He also insulted many Jewish people when he said that his daughter Ivanka, a gentile convert to the Judaic faith, had given birth to a "Jewish baby". This contravenes their matrilineal tradition, which precludes a shiksa from having Jewish babies, especially if she is the daughter of a boorish shegetz.

Many Jewish people were shocked when Trump said he was going to forcibly relocate 11 million residents from their homes in the United States. Trump's promise to bring Holocaust: the Sequel to America was not just offensive to the Mexican and Latino people that Trump had targeted for ethnic cleansing.




Trump is an equal-opportunity offender.


If Edward Gibbon were alive today, he would say that Trump, not Caracalla, was The Common Enemy of All Mankind.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 8, 2016 - 03:15pm PT
Whether charges are brought or not, Dir. FBI Comey acknowledged under his agency there would be discipline, lose of clearance, or...

She's not under his agency, Klimmer. Duh. How about coming back to reality?

Curt
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 8, 2016 - 03:39pm PT
She should face discipline from the State Dept. along with those working with her.

She doesn't work there anymore either. They can't do anything.

Curt
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 8, 2016 - 03:45pm PT

IMPEACH NIXON NOW!!!

I don't care that he is dead.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jul 8, 2016 - 04:31pm PT
How soon we forget..........

Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 8, 2016 - 04:54pm PT
I'll celebrate after she wins!

It will be the defeat of the tyrannical right wingers once again.
We can never let them have power over this country again.
Just look at the historical evidence, they take every country down in their quest for power every time.

all minorities are at risk
all government institutions are at risk
all children are at risk

Vote for Hillary and for Dems all the way down the ticket for change.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
I don't think dodging the draft with a fake medical excuse is actually treasonous, but certainly not admirable and lets not forget it was hard staying at home dodging STD's instead of bullets.

Obviously it was not honest either.

I declare Hilary Clinton the presumptive winner by a large margin since she doesn't even come close to Trump in stupidity.




bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 8, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
We can never let them have power over this country again.
Just look at the historical evidence, they take every country down in their quest for power.

all minorities are at risk
all government institutions are at risk
all children are at risk

Last time I checked the Dems only USE minorities. Repubs tend to empower people to self-sufficiency, away from poverty.

Let's look at the Democrat party over years, shall we? Maybe Dr. F and Norton could explain why the KKK was a Democrat supporting organization. WHy?

Why would the KKK support the Dems?

They OPPOSED THE LIBERATION OF AFRICAN AMERICAN SLAVES!!! The party of Lincoln, the Republicans freed the slaves.
Republicans freed the slaves!!!! HOW MANY BLACK YOUTHS KNOW THAT???? You know why they don't know that? Guess.
Democrats opposed the Civil Rights initiatives of the 60's. WHo supported it? Most Repubs.
Hey BLACK AMERICA, WHO IS LOoKING OUT FOR YOU????

conservatives, or liberal. I want you to be free, and of free-will. The Dems just want your vote and they give you stuff, and also special preferences. Does that seem "fair" in America?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 8, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
I think it's time to admit the obvious. Klimmer's zeal for trump can only mean one thing - trump is the alien Noah of the Moon ark. I guess the shoddy disguise, desperation to be accepted and the general lack of language skills should have been a dead give away, but hey, I'm slow sometimes. But given his proclivities for f*#king the average worker, importing foreign labor and catering to the rich I now also have to believe the Moon Ark is actually a slave ship.

So that's it, it comes down to Hill or the alien. I know which way I'm voting, we have enough immigration problems without electing one.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 8, 2016 - 05:08pm PT
Ya moron
there isn't a single Democrat in the KKK

They changed parties after LBJ

Everyone of them are Republican, that want to pay you low wages and empower themselves as they steal your power and your soul

Look up the definition of Liberal
Lincoln and Jesus were liberals
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Jul 8, 2016 - 05:09pm PT
Explain how Republicans empower minorities
because I say your lying

what free stuff are the liberals giving us, Social Security?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 8, 2016 - 05:16pm PT
Why are you pussies so afraid to say the obvious about the whole BLM thing, combined with police shooting black people?

The stats are out there. The data is there. But people still propagate the notion that blacks are killed by cops because cops are racist.

That is totally FALSE. The stats prove otherwise. Unless you'd like to propose that blacks dying by other black shooters are racists, or they're undercover cops posing as black thugs killing other blacks.
**
This is all really simple. It boils down to FAMILY VALUES, raising children to respect police, and educate themselves so they can be employed and be independent of gov't assistance.**

Very important, and would stop all violence. Almost all of it.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 8, 2016 - 06:22pm PT
Socially this country would be so different if Bobby Kennedy and MLK would have lived.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 8, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
PotatoHead = Ron A?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 8, 2016 - 06:53pm PT

Hi, Ron!
Norton

Social climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:01pm PT
Hi Rokjox in Idaho !

I like the new potatohead username as appropriate for Idaho being known for potatos

whereas I believe Ron Anderson lives in a small town called Mound or something,, somewhere not Idaho

regardless, always nice to see people banned by ChrisMac make up new usernames and come back anyway

shows courage and resilience
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:04pm PT

Ahh, it's good to have you back, Ron.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
Ron's BACK?

WOOT! WOOT!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:13pm PT
Sorry, Cosmic. Forgot that that was your pic. I'll change the credit.

If you prefer, I'll insert another one....although nothing illustrates 'PotatoHead' better than that pic.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:41pm PT
"Transcript of the exchange between Comey and Rep. Matt Cartwright (D-PA):

MATT CARTWRIGHT: You were asked about markings on a few documents, I have the manual here, marking national classified security information. And I don’t think you were given a full chance to talk about those three documents with the little c’s on them. Were they properly documented? Were they properly marked according to the manual?

JAMES COMEY: No.

MATT CARTWRIGHT: According to the manual, and I ask unanimous consent to enter this into the record Mr. Chairman

CHAIRMAN: Without objection so ordered.

MATT CARTWRIGHT: According to the manual, if you’re going to classify something, there has to be a header on the document? Right?

JAMES COMEY: Correct.

MATT CARTWRIGHT: Was there a header on the three documents that we’ve discussed today that had the little c in the text someplace?

JAMES COMEY: No. There were three e-mails, the c was in the body, in the text, but there was no header on the email or in the text.

**MATT CARTWRIGHT: So if Secretary Clinton really were an expert about what’s classified and what’s not classified and we’re following the manual, the absence of a header would tell her immediately that those three documents were not classified. Am I correct in that?



JAMES COMEY: That would be a reasonable inference.**


The republicans just can't get a break. LOL
Norton

Social climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
yes, Apogee

the same irrational fixation of pointing out forum usernames that are not that person's real name

and then calling them spineless or more sophomorically a coward

which is by far the majority of posters on this or most any internet forum, not real names out of concern for cyber security

but one would have to have the intelligence to first understand the concept

yeah, we know who little "potato" is, now wait for her ranting childish reply......wait...
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 07:58pm PT
Speak no, hear no, smell no, pirate no Potato, bitches



Apparently, the Mister Potatohead figure and Nomenclature, for which I have acquired the Trademark from Hasbro, has been pirated.

Several people will be receiving a certified letter from zBrown, downTownBrown & brownEye, Esq. shortly. Do not ignore it's contents.

http://www.hasbro.com/common/productimages/en_US/d8ef22ae50569047f5578509c59e0212/D8F1474A50569047F5BBDE8BCB74C6DC.jpg
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 09:41pm PT
Donald Trump gave Rock Hudson AIDS.

Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 9, 2016 - 03:56am PT
The lunatic is in my head . . . .. .



[Click to View YouTube Video]




And if your band starts playing different tunes,
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 9, 2016 - 08:28am PT
Donald Trump is a fairly honorable man ...

I suppose the same could be said of Hitler, Stalin, and a bunch of other numbskulls who divided their countries.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 9, 2016 - 08:53am PT
Or in the words of Trey Gowdy.

"Rock Hudson accepted AIDS from Donald Trump."

It's all how you look at it, I 'spose.


August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 9, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
Those are not mutually exclusive.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 9, 2016 - 01:09pm PT

And if your band starts playing different tunes,
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon.

hehehe....(in a crazy laugh)....

Pink Floyd. Brilliant, and somewhat depressing sometimes. Spent lots of time on drugs listening.

Heroin's the best, just goes with the melodies, and their states of mind (or the lack thereof).

Great music even in sobriety, as long as you understand Pink Floyd. Otherwise, it can be maddening, with all the depression.

zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 9, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
Can we get an Amen for an FBI investigation of Joe Walsh (not the good one)

Former Rep. Joe Walsh -- under fire for a deleted tweet saying "This is now war" against President Barack Obama following the killings of Dallas police officers -- defended his rhetoric Friday.
Norton

Social climber
Jul 9, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 9, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
Is Trump about to eat that poor baby?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 9, 2016 - 08:34pm PT
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Hillary-Clinton-emails/2015/09/10/id/684121/

http://www.mediaite.com/online/fbi-director-admits-hillary-clinton-emails-were-not-properly-marked-classified/


They are grabbing at straws and wasting more taxpayers time and money.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 9, 2016 - 09:18pm PT
Klimmer, you are impervious to facts.
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