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Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 04:26pm PT
My money is on the pilots took it down on purpose which explains no radio traffic.
The transponder had been turned off also. Those cockpit doors are pretty
inpenetrable now so that furthers the Death By Pilot theory.
enjoimx

Trad climber
SLO
Mar 11, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
I think it was full of pot, was diverted to California, and has crashed somewhere in Yosemite.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 11, 2014 - 04:36pm PT
a group of VERY HIGH electronics warfare engineers

What makes you think they were high?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 11, 2014 - 04:39pm PT
They were in an airplane, were they not?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 11, 2014 - 04:41pm PT
'Malaysian'
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 04:42pm PT
enjomix is prolly right. The Iranians with the fake passports were just
trying to move to France to open a tobacco shop.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 11, 2014 - 04:45pm PT
I'm with Reilly.

The copilot was young, inexperienced relative to the people they usually get to fly these things.

So he shoots the pilot at 35k feet, has the knowledge to basically cloak the thing, points it toward the Deep Blue - never to be found again.

Think of the genius - no reasons, no explanations, no black box - ever - all in this modern age of high tech spying.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 11, 2014 - 04:51pm PT
They reportedly had 7.5 hours of fuel. Fly it low, he could be anywhere.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
Both pilots had islamic names. They could have been together on the plot
from the beginning but then one got cold feet so they flew around while
they 'sorted it out'. When they came to an 'agreement' down they went.
This wouldn't be the first time for this. That Egypt Air crash off the
coast of S Carolina was almost certainly DBP.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 11, 2014 - 05:03pm PT
But for what?
Therein lies the genius...
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 11, 2014 - 05:06pm PT
sad!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 05:11pm PT
Ron, forget the Iranians, they were just trying to get out of Iran. This
is all about the pilots. The plane was in control for a long time after
the transponder was turned off and the flight path was deviated from.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 11, 2014 - 05:12pm PT
A 777 full of weed is a lot of weed.


Along the same lines, I think it's nice that Ron has his very own Sidmo.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 05:19pm PT
With 7.5 hours of fuel and cruising speed of 500 knots it creates a pretty big search area.

When the AirFrance plane went down in the Atlantic it was sending all sorts of data back while it was going down. Someone probably turned everything off on purpose.

Can't even imagine how much it sucked for the passengers ;-(
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 05:27pm PT
Can't even imagine how much it sucked for the passengers ;-(
And now their families.
overwatch

climber
Mar 11, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
Any posters have real intel sources or just the open media?
enjoimx

Trad climber
SLO
Mar 11, 2014 - 05:44pm PT
Nobody has real intel sources. We are all at the mercy of Yahoo cbs and Faux journalism.

Who knows what happened to the plane. Maybe it landed safely and it's all a lie.

Maybe it crashed in Yosemite and was full of pot
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 05:51pm PT
Not much intel. I did talk to someone I work with in Malaysia this morning. They are all scratching their heads as well.

Welcome to realm of pure speculation
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 06:03pm PT
Big f up by the flight crew

Yes, my sources say they forgot the Grey Poupon.


My other sources say the Malaysian military is FOS about having a radar
track in the Straits of Malacca. Radar24.com showed about 5 other aircraft
in the Straits at that time. However, it is looking more likely that they
did fly for some time beyond and/or below primary radar coverage so they
may well be searching the wrong area. On the other hand if it was DBP then
they might have taken it in at a steep enough angle that very little debris
was produced. That seems highly unlikely but stranger things have happened.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 11, 2014 - 06:16pm PT
Highhacked?

https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/11/18/2013-27343/special-conditions-boeing-model-777-200--300-and--300er-series-airplanes-aircraft-electronic-system
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 11, 2014 - 06:17pm PT
I'm unable see any other scenario as more likely - the copilot - DBP.

The genius - discussions exactly like this one will carry on the world over - and slowly be replaced by fear. The message - just genius. No bodies, nothing, ever, no "smartest guy in the room" (always the US) telling us how it all went down - Amelia Earhart.

What can a guy smart enough to fly a 777 figure out with a modern cockpit full of the most sophisticated instruments in the world? Every time a blip of radar or radio caught his attention, he could change course. I'll bet he found the deepest, most remote hole in the world within 7.5 hours of KL.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Mar 11, 2014 - 06:34pm PT
enjoimx

Trad climber
SLO
Mar 11, 2014 - 07:30pm PT
It is actually really crazy to think that a huge modern 777 with totally modern communication equipment and 240 ppl on board could just vanish for 3+ days now.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 11, 2014 - 07:51pm PT
Wow you are so tuff.
No one handles pussy like the Dough Boy Hunter.

Hey did your honorary ranger Rick decoder ring give you the 411 on this Malaysian flight?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 08:09pm PT
Need more conspiracy?

This story has managed to almost COMPLETELY get another huge story out of the headlines. Crimea, Ukraine.

Also, a Chinese Airliner was almost hit by a North Korean missile test about a week prior to this disappearance.

Also, local villagers heard the airplane flying very low just before it turned West. That was the Eastern Coast of Malaysia. Several people reported it to coppers.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 11, 2014 - 08:11pm PT
North Korea shooting a missile at a Chinese airliner?
Got a link? That's incredible if true.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 08:14pm PT
Here, Philo; http://www.globaltimes.cn/NEWS/tabid/99/ID/847705/North-Korean-missile-recklessness-deserves-firm-response-from-China.aspx

Didn't target the airliner, as much as just a reckless launch with no regards for air traffic.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 08:15pm PT
Philo, N Korea conducted a ballistic missile test without warning anybody.
The airliner flew through the area five minutes before the launch.
Dal Maxvill

Social climber
Illinois
Mar 11, 2014 - 08:16pm PT
This is really an entertaining site. What is the average IQ here?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 08:19pm PT
I've also 'heard' that Malaysia is being unwilling to accept much of the help being offered. It was only one report I heard, but they may be trying to hide something.

They have jurisdiction.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 08:27pm PT
Cragman, pretty sure nobody in China reads SuperTopo.

WTF, you might be right.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 11, 2014 - 08:39pm PT

A very compelling mystery....however...it seems awfully callous and shameful to make light of it, when the loved ones of the missing are suffering great pain and grief.

Might want to consider that.

Word. I guess I don't find the death of a few hundred people very funny.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 11, 2014 - 08:41pm PT
Thanx for the link Blue.
It wasn't that I doubted North Korea's capacity for lunatic behavior as much as I am very curious as to how China will respond to their brain damaged step son.
JonA

Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
Mar 11, 2014 - 09:35pm PT
The group of Chinese electronic warfare engineers had an EMP device in the hold that was accidentally activated. The pilots managed to reverse course and keep the bird in the air as long as they could with the controls that still functioned.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Mar 11, 2014 - 09:42pm PT
This appears to be a really tragic incident, no matter the cause. But the lack of data is interesting given current surveillance technology. I smell fish.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 11, 2014 - 09:47pm PT
Probably these guys again:

[Click to View YouTube Video]

They have experience with the 777. Bad experience.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 11, 2014 - 09:57pm PT
Classless Chaz.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 11, 2014 - 10:00pm PT
The latest up on CNN seems to suggest my conspiracy theories are old news. Apparently, the plane could have made it all the way to Africa.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 10:04pm PT
The group of Chinese electronic warfare engineers had an EMP device in the hold that was accidentally activated. The pilots managed to reverse course and keep the bird in the air as long as they could with the controls that still functioned.


Not buying that one. If an EMP was deployed within the hull, that may be somewhat protected from outer EMP blasts, would have disabled almost ALL electronics on-board.

Some SBC-type (small board computers) devices may have been shielded from EMP, but it's more likely to do that on the OUTER hull, not internally, but like military stuff, it may have direct, immediate shielding.

Not a bad theory though. The more I run through this scenario, the more it seems plausible based on certain things I pointed out above.

Hi-jacking to a different country seems most likely though. But the EMP would explain a lot of sh#t that is inexplicable. Systems shutting down, no comms, but hydraulic control remained. Engines, flaps still worked.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 11, 2014 - 10:09pm PT
Wow with you brain trustees around who needs the NTSB?
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Mar 11, 2014 - 10:12pm PT
Obviously the work of extraterrestrials.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 11, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
Any EMP device small enough to go aboard,in anything but air freight, would use an explosion, (shaped charge) to collapse a solenoid.

A big enough explosion to bring the plane down all by itself.

Not buying that theory.

Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Mar 11, 2014 - 10:19pm PT
Mr. Tsoukalos I presume?

Seriously now, I heard reports of the passengers' family members hurling bottled water at airline officials during briefings. They don't believe the lies.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 11, 2014 - 10:21pm PT
EMP you say? Right right guvnah.



Glad the Cletus Conspiracy Crew is on the case, should have it sussed in no time.
JonA

Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
Mar 11, 2014 - 10:24pm PT
Losing the transponder and all comms while staying in the air for at least another hour AND you have a group of engineers on board whose profession is to disrupt the em spectrum. I'm not normally a 'conspiracy person' but thats a big coincidence.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 11, 2014 - 10:28pm PT
the magnetic vial of antimatter fell out of the unsuspecting couriers pocket.

OOPS!


POOF!
GuapoVino

Trad climber
Mar 11, 2014 - 10:33pm PT
The pilots had Muslim names but the head pilot was hired by that airline back in the early 80's and had about 18,000 hours flying time. He was described as an aviation tech geek. Doubtful he had a drastic change that would cause him to do something like this. Anything is possible but very unlikely.

It appears that two of the passengers were flying with stolen passports - an Italian passport stolen in 2013 and an Austrian passport stolen in 2012. I think both were stolen in Thailand. Reports are that an "Iranian businessman" bought both tickets that the two passengers in question used. Possibly terrorism but it could be something else, stranger things have happened.

152 Chinese on board and about 30-40 Malaysians with a sprinkling of other nationalities. China has no beef with any Islamic countries but there have had a few acts of terrorism committed in their country recently, all from Muslim extremists. I guess we'll know when they find the plane.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Mar 11, 2014 - 10:45pm PT
The ocean is big, planes are small and avionics are not magic systems invulnerable to malfunctioning. Occasionally planes also crash cause of pilot error (or maybe about 99% of crashes anyway).

But surely there is some super secret devil conspiracy going on!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 11:13pm PT
Guapo, I agree it is unlikely the captain underwent a psychic rebirth. The second officer was
clearly a loose cannon if the report of his inviting two women into the cockpit two years ago is
true. Going from a womanizer to a fundamentalist terrorist is not all that unusual it seems
from from recent history.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 11, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
The pilots had Muslim names

Um, hello? Malaysia? Where 2/3 the population is muslim? Bring on the Cleti.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 11, 2014 - 11:23pm PT
There are a limited number of runways on this planet where that plane can land, none in a position to keep a secret I'd guess. That thing is in the ocean. I'd also guess every cell phone suspected of being on that plane has been identified and attempts to triangulate them off towers have been made. Those things are in the ocean, too.


ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Mar 11, 2014 - 11:29pm PT
I am pretty sure inviting cute girls to the cockpit to impress them with the fancy lights and switches is not a gateway to purposefully plunging a 777 into the ocean.

Cell phones routinely ring on the caller side when destroyed, etc. This is a classic case of Internet overload.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 11:34pm PT
Ontheedge, all I am saying is that quite a few terrorists lead lives of the proverbial quiet
desperation and when that didn't do it for em they turned to fundamentalism. That is an
oft-repeated scenario.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 11, 2014 - 11:51pm PT
This may be another another FLIGHT 800 case, brah.

Something weird happened, we aren't supposed to know. In the case of 800, the US Navy appeared to shoot down a jetliner by mistake, or not.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:12am PT
I have a hard time believing that the Chinese military does not know exactly where that plan is/went down. Pretty sure the US Gov't knows too. Why the silence?

Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:16am PT
Fortmental ...Climate Change thread was boring me lol

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:22am PT
Obama and Putin had it shot down in order to get the news off Ukraine.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:30am PT
Surveillance satellites don't sit in stationary orbits and they must be directed to look at specific
targets at a specific time. We don't look at every square meter of the planet 24/7, we only
listen to every cell phone 24/7.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:31am PT
Obama and Putin had it shot down in order to get the news off Ukraine.


Or something similar....
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:33am PT
pilot probably ate some Walmart LSD meat
2 l l

Sport climber
Rancho Verga, CA
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:40am PT
Malaysian Police are looking at ... psychological problems of the ... the crew, and personal problems ... (of) the crew.
Jonti Roos, who is who is currently living in Melbourne during a year-long stay in Australia, said she and her friend Jaan Maree were waiting to board their flight from Phuket to Kuala Lumpur three years ago when two pilots plucked them out of the queue and asked them if they would like to ride in the cockpit.
The girls, who had just finished a two-week trip to Thailand, spent the entire flight including take-off and landing in the cockpit with the two pilots
One of the pilots was Fariq Abdul Hamid
bergbryce

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:45am PT
The only thing more entertaining than this collection of BoBoisms was the finale of True Detective.

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 12, 2014 - 01:24am PT
LSD meat is cheaper at Costco
MisterE

climber
Mar 12, 2014 - 01:35am PT
I like triangles, and always come to dinner when they ring.
Yak-Chik

Trad climber
Phoenix
Mar 12, 2014 - 01:42am PT
So if it kept going west south west out of the Straits for a little
then turned dead south it could have easily reached Antartica.
And land safely. Them 777's have legs.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Mar 12, 2014 - 01:44am PT
LOST



climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 12, 2014 - 02:08am PT
I'd invite those girls to my cockpit anytime.

had to be said right?
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 12, 2014 - 10:07am PT
So if it kept going west south west out of the Straits for a little
then turned dead south it could have easily reached Antartica.
And land safely. Them 777's have legs.

Sounds possible, with the information we have so far. When Malaysian Radar lost it, it was still at nearly 30,000 feet.
The fact the aircraft went so far, would indicate the transponder was turned off, rather than a massive electrial failure.
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Mar 12, 2014 - 11:28am PT
Without the transponder going, the fact that the Malaysian military was able to identify the 777 so far west of it's original heading needs looking into a bit more. It doesn't sound like they tracked it all the way from where the transponder was turned off to the location near that remote island. Seems to me like it's not totally certain that what they were tracking was the 777.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:09pm PT
^^^ That scenario seems more likely to me than this wildly unusual flight path/flying without contact for over an hour
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
The strangest thing in all of this to me is that we have trouble confirming the radar information.

It's seems like the most basic part of something like this. The most basic question in this search is where was the plane last seen? how high was it how fast. what direction. How much fuel.

SO any sources of that information should have been scoured and analyzed within hours. Radar tapes re run to match up the aircraft on overlapping systems. yadda yadda.

If the info recently is correct it seems clear that the pilot(s) turned off the transponders intentionally and radically changed course knowingly and cut communications.

In which case I'd feel pretty sure this was a hijacking that went bad.

But why the hell is it so hard to confirm the radar info?

Rediculous.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:37pm PT
The strangest thing in all of this to me is that we have trouble confirming the radar information.
If you've had any first hand experience seeing what these 3rd world people do with our western technology, you wouldn't be asking this.

Let's say there are 100 knobs on that radar designed for highly trained technicians. The radar becomes too outdated for our uses, so the thing gets shipped overseas as a tax write-off. They don't know English, can't read the manual, but someone figures out through monkeying around what 2 of the knobs do - this guy becomes the trainer.

It's irrelevant data regardless, IMO. The jet us super redundant - the most modern equipment in the world. The thing can't disappear unless someone wants it to - someone trained in the systems. After 911, not everyone can just go get this sort of training. That's what I see.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
Climbsk, it's not really that 'rediculous' as primary radar returns can be pretty sketchy,
especially in a third world scenario. Besides, when they turned off their
transponder and dropped down lower they may well have been beyond the
Malaysian military's primary radar range so reconstructing the flight path
would be an inexact science, at best. Now, if a CVN had been in the area,
as within 500-750 miles, then we'd be talking a different story. On the
other hand the US military may very well be less than forthcoming with what
it does know for obvious reasons.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 12, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
How long/far could a loaded 777 glide without power from 30,000ft? Say some kind of freak lighting hit or something that just totally fahqd all the electronics. 100miles over the course of 45min or so? Shorter?

I'm genuinely curious.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 12, 2014 - 01:19pm PT
^^^^^
PAGING THE NSA
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 12, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=777+glide+ratio#
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 12, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
Occum's razor needs to be employed here. Simplest explanation is most often the correct one.

Plane suffered massive, instantaneous failure and went down in the ocean.

It's unlikely anyone on board suffered longer than a few seconds.

All the hearsay and false info is symptomatic of technological inconsistencies and human error stemming from third-world inadequacies.
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Mar 12, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
"The aircraft lost 5,000 feet (1,500 m) in 10 nautical miles (19 km; 12 mi), giving a glide ratio of approximately 12:1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

The Gimli glider was a 767.
GuapoVino

Trad climber
Mar 12, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
They now know the identities of the two people using the fake passports, a 19 and 29 year old, both from Iran, who were evidently trying to flee Iran and go to Germany where they were going to seek asylum. They flew to Malaysia with Iranian passports but for whatever reason needed to use other passports to get to Germany. The mother of one of the men, who was living in Germany, contacted authorities when the plane went missing.
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
Mar 12, 2014 - 05:49pm PT
Dave Kos - that was funny
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Mar 12, 2014 - 06:24pm PT
Brilliant deduction Farouk. Plane goes missing over the ocean, large pieces of plane observed floating in ocean near suspected crash site. Never would've guessed.
ec

climber
ca
Mar 12, 2014 - 06:39pm PT
Hey...this isn't unusual. Didn't several airliners disappear without a trace on 9/11? Just sayin'
Probably foul play, sorry for the families of lost peeps.

 ec
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 12, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
Air France Flight 447 is an example that didn't involve terrorism. It took a long time to find that wreckage also. A plane may seem big when you stand next to it but they are tee tiny specks in the Ocean.
Air France Flight 447 (abbreviated AF447) was a scheduled international flight from Galeão International Airport in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to Charles de Gaulle International Airport in Paris, France. On 1 June 2009, the Airbus A330-203 airliner serving the flight crashed into the Atlantic Ocean, resulting in the deaths of all 216 passengers and 12 aircrew.[2] The accident was the deadliest in the history of Air France.[3][4] It was also the Airbus A330's second and deadliest fatal accident, and its first while in commercial passenger service.[5]
While Brazilian Navy authorities were able to locate and remove from the sea the first major wreckage within five days of the accident, initial investigation was hampered because the aircraft's black boxes were not recovered from the ocean floor until May 2011, nearly two years later.[1][6] The final report, released at a news conference on 5 July 2012,[7][8] stated that the aircraft crashed after temporary inconsistencies between the airspeed measurements—likely due to the aircraft's pitot tubes being obstructed by ice crystals—caused the autopilot to disconnect, after which the crew reacted incorrectly and ultimately led the aircraft to an aerodynamic stall from which they did not recover.[7][9][10]
Bargainhunter

climber
Mar 12, 2014 - 07:13pm PT
People know exactly where and when it went down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGxNyaXfJsA
command error

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 12, 2014 - 07:16pm PT
Way back when I was little my aunt talked to us about working for Boeing.
She told us how they felt enormous pride making these huge
new airplanes and how it was like a funeral at work when one of them
crashed. They would always be stressing to do the work perfectly.
It was the only option and she said the look in peoples eyes haunted her
dreams for years.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 12, 2014 - 09:08pm PT
So someone spotted something floating around in the ocean? Have any of you flown into Asia? The whole ocean for 100's of miles off shore is a giant floating landfill, the water near the largest cities like something you'd flush down the toilet after Taco Bell. Show me the black box.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 13, 2014 - 02:50am PT
Landed in Antarctica.. and they are eating each other.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 13, 2014 - 09:22am PT
Kind of like the alien angle.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 13, 2014 - 09:53am PT
The best thread I've found, is over at Prof3ssional Pilots Rumor Network

People are covering their asses. I didn't see that coming.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost-143.html

Just now the news came out that India has deployed 3 ships and 3 aircraft to search effort east of Andaman islands. However, their unexplained silence on tracking an unknown large aircraft near Andaman islands is curious to say the least, unless, like Malaysia they also have been caught in a situation where they cannot confess to holes in their radar coverage.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Mar 13, 2014 - 10:13am PT
Surely Klimmer knows where the plane went! He's an expert at this stuff.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:00am PT
Plane is stuck on the tarmac at O'hare. Passengers are pissed.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:12am PT
Landed on Dr Evil's secret volcano in the south Pacific. Bond, James Bond will be liberating the lair soon.

Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:14am PT
This strikes me as one of the most bizarre events in aviation history.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:19am PT
That's what they said in 1999 when the Egypt Air 990 pilot took his ship down.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:29am PT
Hey, keep in mind almost 300 people have been lost.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:38am PT
....or have they.

I would assume this will end tragically and it is truly a sad event.

Even more sad is that the Chinese know exactly where that plane is and will not risk exposing their surveillance capacity.

JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:48am PT
Even more sad is that the Chinese know exactly where that plane is and will not risk exposing their surveillance capacity.
The Chinese have already exposed their capacity - they found some floating rubbish and couldn't figure out what it was.

You boys have been watching too much CSI - your heads are full of Sci Fi voodoo that doesn't exist in the real world. I say that plane is gone - forever.

Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:52am PT
The Chinese have already exposed their capacity

Yeah right...a super pixelated image that is barely visible.

The Chinese could read 10 font text from their satellites
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:55am PT
^^^ Exactly. At least they have come forward with some help, as opposed to
some other superpower which doesn't even want to provide degraded images.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Mar 13, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
Exactly...now it is pretty much an international standoff to not show your capacity to "spy" even though it is pretty much common knowledge.

I think Boeing making a statement is actually our gov't making a statement.

The US knows where that plane went down too.

JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 13, 2014 - 12:10pm PT
The genius of this hijacking, you guys are playing right into it.

Our government has aliens hidden away in a hanger in New Mexico, too.
MikeL

Trad climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Mar 13, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
The story has gotten an unusual amount of press given its impact or potential impact, and from what I've heard and read, people of a technical bent are shocked that anything could not be readily explained with technical systems and data that they believe should say all.

It's more interesting as a global cultural artifact, to me.

I guess we're all tired of syria and russian mobilization stories. The lost airplane . . . now that's something we can all talk about technically.
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Mar 13, 2014 - 12:48pm PT
Cos, I respect your right to think what you do, I'm a doubter myself when it comes to many "official government" explanations. But in my experience, which includes air traffic control in the military and government contracts with a geophysical consulting firm, I would say that I see more cases of governments being inept at what they do, than adept at it.

The chain of command is like the old game where you whisper a story in everyone's ear in a circle and then get a completely different story at the end. So, I agree and disagree with you, CYA is the motivating factor in many instances, but it is usually there to cover-up ineptness caused by governmental Peter Principle (people promoted to the highest level of their incompetence).
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 13, 2014 - 12:50pm PT

Oil Rig Worker Thinks He Saw Malaysia Air Flight 370 Go Down In Flames

Abby Ohlheiser, The Wire
Mar. 12, 2014, 12:13 PM 120,302 48

malaysia

(AP/Na Son Nguyen)

In yet another odd twist to the mysterious story of Malaysian Airlines Flight 370, a New Zealand man working on an oil rig in the South China Sea has come forward to say he believes he saw the airplane on fire right around the time it disappeared.

Mike McKay, a worker on the "Songa Mercur" drilling platform, sent an email to his bosses detailing his version of events. McKay said that he "observed the plane burning at high altitude...in one piece" about 50-70 KM from his location.

Read more: http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/03/oil-rig-worker-says-he-saw-malaysia-air-flight-370-go-down/359093/#ixzz2vrWFQT2a
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2014 - 12:51pm PT
Hey, Coz, I'm happy to amaze you about national defense. I just wish I
could share more, but then you know what would ensue. What was yer highest
clearance?

Tom, how could somebody distinguish what was burning from 50-70 km away?
The naked eye can't make out an airliner at 30km. Sounds more like a meteorite.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2014 - 12:58pm PT
If it was terrorist, they'd be gleefully celebrating their killing of innocents.

Air India 182 bombing in 1985 was almost certainly the work of Sikh terrorists
as a reprisal for the Golden Temple massacre the year before but no claims
of responsibility were ever published.

Coz, I've no beef with you but some of us do know what we're talking about, some times. ;-)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2014 - 01:08pm PT
Coz, one can brag about one's prior clearances all he wants as long as he
doesn't brag about anything in particular. The fact that you're calling me
a liar is more telling. But that is the beauty of the internet.

ps
No hard feelings, OK? ;-)
rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Mar 13, 2014 - 01:11pm PT
This whole thread comes down to this:

Speculation, speculation, speculation, BULLSH#T.

Nobody in this thread seems to have one functioning brain cell. Apparently nobody ever payed any attention to Feynman's lecture on how to solve a problem:

Rule 1:

I DON'T KNOW!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 13, 2014 - 01:12pm PT
There's alwasys some goober merchant conspiracy peddlers out there. The same ones who are all "Bldg 7 had no damage, it was brought down on purpose" and they'll show a pic of one side of the thing...when there are hundred of pics of the adjacent side of it with enormous structural damage.

Same folks who claim a building can't collapse into it's footprint, yet can't explain to you the basics of the structural design. They'd think a flying pan was something that happened when mom was pissed at dad.
rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Mar 13, 2014 - 01:17pm PT
Same folks who claim a building can't collapse into it's footprint, yet can't explain to you the basics of the structural design. They'd think a flying pan was something that happened when mom was pissed at dad.

That's f*#king hilarious! Unfortunately, it's also true.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 13, 2014 - 01:35pm PT
Scott Cosgrove is smarter than all his critics combined
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 13, 2014 - 01:42pm PT
thousands of builders of all strips disagree with you

Maybe we can get Joe the Plumber on the case.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 13, 2014 - 03:05pm PT
Latest media:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-pentagon-3238713

A Pentagon official is reported to have said that it has information that missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 went down in the India Ocean.

As a result USS Kidd was reported to have been dispatched to the area and will reach there from its current search location in the next 24 hours.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 13, 2014 - 03:12pm PT
I dunno, ECIYA's reading comprehension seems better than most...
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 13, 2014 - 03:26pm PT
The Stem? I wonder if that might have more to do with prowess in dihedrals than an insult regarding anatomy of the brain.

Indian Ocean huh? Gonna be hard to find it. They don't even know what ocean it's in. Maybe the Stupid Americans can solve it.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Mar 13, 2014 - 03:32pm PT
We, and others, know where the plane is.
But announcing it would be revealing our true surveillance capabilities in that region.
"Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent at this juncture."
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 13, 2014 - 03:38pm PT
wow, I went diving in the Inidan Ocean 2 years ago. It's shallower than most and so the currents are ferocious. Surprised bodies haven't started washing up on shores. The tsunami, was an example how fast stuff moves there.

From PPRN

The aircraft has now been missing for six days. Assuming a mid air break up or break up on impact with water, there must have been some floating debris. It would be reasonable to expect that had this ocurred over the Malacca Narrows, bye now some floatsam would have reached the shores of these straights.
On the basis of a 5kt surface current, the floating debris would have travelled 720nm. It would be reasonable to expect that the SAR
co-ordination team would have taken this into consideration and concentrate their efforts taking into account the direction of surface water movements. However even if the point of break up is currently based on best guess, it is only a matter of time before some debris is washed up on someone`s shores. It is then that the real hard work of finding the location of the main wreckage will commence.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 13, 2014 - 04:48pm PT
Are our surveillance capabilities really a secret?

Enough so to obfuscate the location of a potential SAR mission?

Are there not methods to divulge this info without sacrificing state secrets?

I'm not sure why we'd be surveilling the Indian Ocean anyway or why it would be controversial if we were.
Yak-Chik

Trad climber
Phoenix
Mar 13, 2014 - 05:07pm PT
Looking for the needle in the wrong hay stack.
THERES your problem!
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Mar 13, 2014 - 05:15pm PT
Are our surveillance capabilities really a secret?

As far as resolution goes, yes.
I guess you don't need super high res to see a f*#king 777 though.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 13, 2014 - 05:28pm PT
RIP flight 370

there is no pain you are receding

a distant ship's smoke on the horizon...
command error

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 13, 2014 - 07:08pm PT
Not so fast Fluffy. Try this on for size.

Almost the worst case - MH370 plunged into a swamp in southeast asia
and is buried in muck never to be found because the automatic radio
distress beacon cannot broadcast from under mud and no ships will
detect the black(orange) box sonar pings because hey... its a swamp
and no ship is coming by to listen for pings.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/nick7261/valuejetdebrisfield.jpg
command error

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 13, 2014 - 07:32pm PT
The worst case

MH-370 was jacked by skilled people who killed the
passengers with simple suffocation by switching off the cabin oxygen
system at 40,000ft then throwing the bodies out the doors after
going to a lower altitude. Sharks get unexpected food source.
Skyjackers then fly to a secret location to refuel and repaint the 777
for use in a sneak attack sometime later.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Mar 13, 2014 - 07:35pm PT
The last I heard was that maintenance transmitting info shutdown 14 minutes before the transponder was last heard from.
command error

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 13, 2014 - 07:43pm PT
johnboy thats bad. Real bad. Hope our interceptors are ready to
down a 777 before it gets into the Dulles landing pattern and a 1megaton
surprise goes off.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 13, 2014 - 08:34pm PT
The plane will be found. Debris will wash up. Eventually, the main concentration retrieved.

But meanwhile, the stolen passport biz, with it's illegal aliens, drug and weapons merchants, criminals on the lam, etc, has been yanked off the front burner.

Ronald Noble, Secretary-General of Interpol, the world’s largest international police organization, once called passport fraud the “biggest threat facing the world.”

Thailand has unfortunately gained a reputation as one of the major centers for the forgery/alteration and trade of stolen passports. A number of foreign syndicates based in Thailand are buying and selling stolen passports – both altered and unaltered – for use mainly by criminals based in other countries. The syndicates set up shop here
because until recently this very profitable enterprise has been given little attention by the Thai authorities

http://www.thebigchilli.com/1/post/2012/08/thailands-crime-busters-set-sights-on-passport-fraud-gangs.html
WBraun

climber
Mar 13, 2014 - 08:39pm PT
The stolen passports will show up in NYC at the WTC.

FBI find them and declare "Eureka" !!!!!! we have found!!!!!

The internet conspiracy sites will go into full bore.

Everything will be told.

Klimmer will show up and explain what happened.

All the usual nutcases here will argue that the FBI is always right and telling whole truth nothing but the truth.

Wait for it ....... :-)
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Mar 13, 2014 - 10:10pm PT
Keeps getting stranger by the hour

According to the WSJ

Missing Jet ‘Pinged’ Satellites With Location, Altitude for Hours After Disappearance
Communication satellites received intermittent data “pings” from a missing Malaysia Airlines jet, giving the plane’s location, speed and altitude for at least five hours after it disappeared from civilian radar screens, people briefed on the investigation said Thursday.

The final satellite ping was sent from over water, at what one of these people called a “normal” cruising altitude. The people declined to say where specifically the transmission originated, adding that it was unclear why the transmissions stopped. One possibility one person cited was that the system sending them had been disabled by someone on board.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Mar 13, 2014 - 10:12pm PT
The FBI is telling the truth blah , etc. blah......rj
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2014 - 10:42pm PT
If any of you want to partake in a cloud sourcing sat photo search you can
go here:

https://www.digitalglobe.com/

It is kind of weird in that you are randomly assigned an area which you have
no idea where it is. If you see something you tag the photo and the
'powers that be' check it out. The resolution is impressive. So far I've
scanned a few square miles of whitecaps and three fishing boats. For all I
know I've been examining the Bay of Bothnia. Actually, they could be boats
in the search. The res isn't good enough to tell.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:23pm PT
It is kind of weird in that you are randomly assigned an area which you have
no idea where it is

I can see the benefit of that. No preconceptions, just cold, calculated image inspection.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:53pm PT
Satellite directed EMP?”

Ron made a comment about a transient electromagnetic disturbance usually mostly done from air or water borne many miles away. As for a Sat doing it is not all that farfetched but who? US, China, Iran, N. Korea.....

And if true about among the passengers were a group of VERY HIGHLY trained electronics warfare engineers. Interesting? Sure we will never know or the truth, they will try to make us believe the work of Terrorists, end of story.

Back to Dancing with the Stars or some other "change the subject" more fitting for uneducated Americans.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:55pm PT
Fluffy, of course it makes sense, but it is just weird, especially for a cartographer and navigator.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 14, 2014 - 11:15am PT
By eliminating what didn't happen, they gradually close in, on what did.

This is the price for allowing the Somali ship hijackers to run wild. Looks like someone hijacked a plane.
WBraun

climber
Mar 14, 2014 - 11:19am PT
When will the world become sane again?

The whole planet has become insane.

And it's all your faults .....
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 14, 2014 - 11:23am PT
It's the area of the world most infested with Pirates on the Planet

http://www.icc-ccs.org/piracy-reporting-centre/live-piracy-map
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Mar 14, 2014 - 11:31am PT
This is like the lead in to a James Bond flick. Not a political hijacking, we would have had some "demands" by now. There was something on the plane that was wanted.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 14, 2014 - 11:34am PT
These poor families - these dumb-ass theories the plane landed somewhere - it must be torture on them.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 14, 2014 - 11:35am PT
I agree.

There were some defense contractors, a group of about 20, with samples. The Malaysians have refused to take questions re: cargo.

Also, there seems to have been a flight simulator in one of the pilots apartment where he practiced water landings. Not that unusual, but not that usual either.

ETA: Also, as of a couple of days ago, the cell phones still rang like they were alive, per Chinese news.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 14, 2014 - 11:47am PT
Dear Universe,

Please find that plane, for the families and loved ones of those lost. The pain they are enduring is so much to bear. PLEASE, please relieve them of their pain in not knowing where their loved ones are. Thank you.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Mar 14, 2014 - 02:22pm PT

Knott mine, Werner!!!!
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 14, 2014 - 02:41pm PT

Dear Universe,

Please find that plane, for the families and loved ones of those lost. The pain they are enduring is so much to bear. PLEASE, please relieve them of their pain in not knowing where their loved ones are. Thank you.

Not to be a dick but everyone knows where it is:

at the bottom of the ocean.

I'd be asking the universe for the media to quit working over the poor friends and families with the sensationalist speculation.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Mar 14, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
We don't look at every square meter of the planet 24/7, we only
listen to every cell phone 24/7.

This
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Mar 14, 2014 - 04:30pm PT
Regardless of what happened, Hollywood screen writers are busy throwing together the next blockbuster screenplay. Hijacked plane , full of engineers that is forced to land on a hidden run way on a deserted island.

Staring Denzel Washington, the dude that played Saeed on Lost and Liam Neeson. Milla Jovovic will be the power female that will save everyone...or maybe Angelina Jolie.

YosemiteSteve

Trad climber
CA
Mar 14, 2014 - 05:11pm PT
From the NYTimes

"Radar signals recorded by the Malaysian military appear to show the missing airliner climbing to 45,000 feet, above the approved altitude limit for a Boeing 777-200, soon after it disappeared from civilian radar and made a sharp turn to the west, according to a preliminary assessment by a person familiar with the data.

The radar track, which the Malaysian government has not released but says it has provided to the United States and China, then shows the plane descending unevenly to an altitude of 23,000 feet, below normal cruising levels, as it approached the densely populated island of Penang, one of the country’s largest. There, the plane turned from a southwest-bound course, climbed to a higher altitude and flew northwest over the Strait of Malacca toward the Indian Ocean."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-military-radar.html
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 14, 2014 - 06:06pm PT
With all the unknowns about the pilots, their condition, intentions, rumors of partying, possible cockpit breach, etc...

If we can surf the internet as passengers would it be so difficult to stream live video of the cockpit to air traffic control? Pilots might not like it but wouldn't it make the passengers safer?
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 14, 2014 - 06:20pm PT

What is the 24/7 concern about this plane?

CNN, is talking of nothing else...

I think it's a legitimately big news story. When it appeared that it was just a "routine" crash (which still is kind of a big story), I could see thinking it was getting more attention that in deserved.
But now that it appears that the communications devices / transponders were intentionally turned off and the plane was flying nowhere near where it was supposed to be . . . just super, super strange.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 14, 2014 - 06:22pm PT
I'm hoping the Chinese go in and show the world how to clean out a pirate nest.
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Mar 14, 2014 - 06:35pm PT
As a media diversion from the Crimea/Ukraine invasion by Putin's Russian
army who could think of a more genius event.

The KGB could do this. They are pals with Iran. They virtually control the southern tip of India with that nuke power plant they built there. As a
refueling point for MH370 on its way to Iran the airport there would
be ideal.
Just saying think big on this.


JonA

Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
Mar 14, 2014 - 06:49pm PT
Is there any advantage to putting a nuke onboard a 777 as opposed to another, far easier to obtain aircraft?

Just flaming the conspiracy flames here.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 14, 2014 - 06:51pm PT
^^^^^
Range.
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Mar 14, 2014 - 07:40pm PT
What happen to the current generation who is violently opposed to any theory other than the official?

We caught on to how often we have been lied to at every level. So now it is pretty easy to claim we are being lied to and be right, more so than to trust news releases from almost any official source as being factually accurate.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 14, 2014 - 07:51pm PT
A major jetliner disappearing over the ocean and not being found for an extended period of time is not unprecedented. Black boxes ping for 30 days. Lets hope they figure it out.
command error

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 14, 2014 - 07:57pm PT
Coz you can say that again. Lies within lies. Russians in Crimea and taking
all their billions out of western banks to prevent freezing. Why?

I'm not ready for SHTF day. But is it possible in the next few days for Iran
to load their first nuke onto this 777, after repainting it and flying
a deceptive route to the country they've repeatedly sworn to destroy?
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 14, 2014 - 08:01pm PT
I'd say the odds are pretty high. There are literally thousands of places in that part of the world with two mile long reinforced runways where you could land, I don't know, say 777 with Malaysian Airways painted on the side and go completely unobserved while you refuel and repaint it. I mean, not like we have satellites looking at every airfield in Iran on a daily basis already or anything.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 14, 2014 - 08:01pm PT
But is it possible in the next few days for Iran
to load their first nuke onto this 777, after repainting it and flying
a deceptive route to the country they've repeatedly sworn to destroy?

Sure that is possible. It is also possible for the sun to rise in the west.

Braunini, there are most certainly knott "thousands of places in the world"
within range of that 777 where it could land. Let me rephrase that: there
are more places where it could land than take off again, but maybe knott
even a hundred, if that. And at probably half of those possibles it would
be shot down. Pretty damn hard to hide a 777.
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
Mar 14, 2014 - 08:07pm PT
http://www.dailypaul.com/314146/malaysia-plane-hidden-with-electronic-weaponry-20-high-tech-ew-defense-passengers


http://beforeitsnews.com/events/2014/03/electronic-weaponry-hiding-malaysia-plane-24-suspects-on-board-2432744.html?utm_campaign=&utm_medium=verticalresponse&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Fb4in.info%2FbTbT&utm_source=direct-b4in.info&utm_content=beforeit39snews-verticalresponse
command error

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 14, 2014 - 08:40pm PT
777's can fly much farther if you get rid of all the passengers.
Weight = fuel consumption.
WBraun

climber
Mar 14, 2014 - 09:18pm PT
I found the plane.

Only took 5 seconds of internet search to find.

NSA is pussy and can't find sh!t.

Just see left row at the top :-)

Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 14, 2014 - 09:41pm PT
They even built an extra engine into the tail to throw off the scent....genius!
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Mar 14, 2014 - 10:01pm PT
The entire planet is on a conspiracy binge.

James Bond movie #4 Thunderball (1965) A jet pilot is replaced by
an imposter who got plastic surgery to carry off the impersonation,
hijacks and kills everyone on board.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 14, 2014 - 10:45pm PT
So Braunini is now commenting on WBraun's posts.....?


rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Mar 14, 2014 - 11:11pm PT
CLUELESS = SPECULATION + SPECULATION - SPECULATION / SPECULATION ^ SPECULATION
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 15, 2014 - 12:33am PT
Mr Coz writes:

"What is the 24/7 concern about this plane? CNN, is talking of nothing else..."




This is the type of story Cable News thrives on. The mystery.

Real "news" is the last thing CNN/FOX/MSNBC etc want to report.

Real news is all about FACTS ( or it least it should be ), and facts can be checked.

When no one knows the actual facts, FOX/CNN/MSNBC etc are free to fill their air time with speculation. Speculation is never subject to fact checking, so the networks are relieved of the burden of double-checking their info, and they are also off the hook for anything that turns out to be bullsh#t.

Despite how they present it, the last thing Cable News wants is for this to be solved. Because then, there will be actual facts to report. And then they will have to subject themselves to fact-checking, which never makes them look good.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 15, 2014 - 12:50am PT
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — Piracy and pilot suicide are among the scenarios under study as investigators grow increasingly certain the missing Malaysia Airlines jet changed course and headed west after its last radio contact with air traffic controllers.
Related Stories

1 US theory is someone diverted missing plane Associated Press
Malaysia widens search for missing plane Associated Press
US tech firm had 20 employees on missing plane Associated Press
Last transmission from missing plane was routine Associated Press
Report: Chinese site may show plane debris images Associated Press

The latest evidence suggests the plane didn't experience a catastrophic incident over the South China Sea as was initially suspected. Some experts theorize that one of the pilots, or someone else with flying experience, hijacked the plane or committed suicide by plunging the jet into the sea.

Adding to the speculation that someone was flying the jet, The New York Times on Friday quoted sources familiar with the investigation as saying that the plane experienced significant changes in altitude after it lost contact with ground control, and altered its course more than once.

A U.S. official told The Associated Press earlier that investigators are examining the possibility of "human intervention" in the plane's disappearance, adding it may have been "an act of piracy." The official, who wasn't authorized to talk to the media and spoke on condition of anonymity, said it was possible the plane may have landed somewhere. The official later said there was no solid information on who might have been involved.

While other theories are still being examined, the official said key evidence suggesting human intervention is that contact with the Boeing 777's transponder stopped about a dozen minutes before a messaging system on the jet quit. Such a gap would be unlikely in the case of an in-flight catastrophe.

A Malaysian official, who declined to be identified because he is not authorized to brief the media, said only a skilled aviator could navigate the plane the way it was flown after its last confirmed location over the South China Sea. The official said it had been established with a "more than 50 percent" degree of certainty that military radar had picked up the missing plane after it dropped off civilian radar.
View gallery
Clues in Malaysia Airlines jet search point to deliberate …
Sources say two communications systems on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stopped working, one after th …

Malaysia's acting transport minister, Hishammuddin Hussein, said the country had yet to determine what happened to the plane after it ceased communicating with ground control about 40 minutes into the flight to Beijing on March 8 with 239 people aboard.

He said investigators were still trying to establish that military radar records of a blip moving west across the Malay Peninsula into the Strait of Malacca showed Flight MH370.

"I will be the most happiest person if we can actually confirm that it is the MH370, then we can move all (search) assets from the South China Sea to the Strait of Malacca," he told reporters. Until then, he said, the international search effort would continue expanding east and west from the plane's last confirmed location.

Though some investigators are now convinced that "human intervention" caused the disappearance, U.S. officials told the White House at a briefing Friday that they have "run all the traps" and come up with no good information on who might been involved, according to an official familiar with the meeting. The meeting was attended by State and Defense Department officials, the CIA, the Federal Aviation Administration and the National Transportation Safety Board, among others.

"I don't think there is any consensus on a theory," the official said. "They're not hearing anything in their surveillance that would indicate that this is part of a plot."

Another U.S. official, who also spoke on condition of anonymity, said investigators looking for the plane have run out of clues except for a type of satellite data that has never been used before to find a missing plane, and is very inexact.

The data consists of attempts by an Inmarsat satellite to identify a broad area where the plane might be in case a messaging system aboard the plane should need to connect with the satellite, said the official. The official compared the location attempts, called a "handshake," to someone driving around with their cellphone not in use. As the phone from passes from the range of one cellphone tower to another, the towers note that the phone is in range in case messages need to be sent.

In the case of the Malaysian plane, there were successful attempts by the satellite to roughly locate the Boeing 777 about once an hour over four to five hours, the official said. "This is all brand new to us," the official said. "We've never had to use satellite handshaking as the best possible source of information."

The handshake does not transmit any data on the plane's altitude, airspeed or other information that might help in locating it, the official said. Instead, searchers are trying to use the handshakes to triangulate the general area of where the plane last was known to have been at the last satellite check, the official said.

"It is telling us the airplane was continuing to operate," the official said, plus enough information on location so that the satellite will know how many degrees to turn to adjust its antenna to pick up any messages from the plane.

The official confirmed prior reports that following the loss of contact with the plane's transponder, the plane turned west. A transponder emits signals that are picked up by radar providing a unique identifier for each plane along with altitude. Malaysian military radar continued to pick up the plane as a whole "paintskin" — a radar blip that has no unique identifier — until it traveled beyond the reach of radar, which is about 320 kilometers (200 miles) offshore, the official said.

The New York Times, quoting American officials and others familiar with the investigation, said radar signals recorded by the Malaysian military appear to show the airliner climbing to 45,000 feet (about 13,700 meters), higher than a Boeing 777's approved limit, soon after it disappeared from civilian radar, and making a sharp turn to the west. The radar track then shows the plane descending unevenly to an altitude of 23,000 feet (7,000 meters), below normal cruising levels, before rising again and flying northwest over the Strait of Malacca toward the Indian Ocean, the Times reported.

Scores of aircraft and ships from 12 countries are involved in the search, which reaches into the eastern stretches of the South China Sea and on the western side of the Malay Peninsula, northwest into the Andaman Sea and the Indian Ocean.

India said it was using heat sensors on flights over hundreds of Andaman Sea islands Friday and would expand the search for the missing jet farther west into the Bay of Bengal, more than 1,600 kilometers (about 1,000 miles) to the west of the plane's last known position.

A team of five U.S. officials with air traffic control and radar expertise — three from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board and two from the Federal Aviation Administration — has been in Kuala Lumpur since Monday to assist with the investigation.

White House spokesman Jay Carney sidestepped questions Friday about the possibility of human intervention in the plane disappearance, saying only that U.S. officials were assisting in the investigation.

Malaysia has faced accusations it isn't sharing all its information or suspicions about the plane's final movements. It insists it is being open, and says it would be irresponsible to narrow the focus of the search until there is undeniable evidence of the plane's flight path.

At this point, there is no evidence of any wrongdoing on the part of the two pilots, though Malaysian police have said they are looking at their psychological background, their family life and connections.

Zaharie Ahmad Shah, 53, and Fariq Abdul Hamid, 27, have both been described as respectable, community-minded men.

Mike Glynn, a committee member of the Australian and International Pilots Association, said he considers pilot suicide to be the most likely explanation for the disappearance, as was suspected in a SilkAir crash during a flight from Singapore to Jakarta in 1997 and an EgyptAir flight in 1999.

"A pilot rather than a hijacker is more likely to be able to switch off the communications equipment," Glynn said. "The last thing that I, as a pilot, want is suspicion to fall on the crew, but it's happened twice before."

__

Lowy reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Ashok Sharma in New Delhi, Jim Gomez in Kuala Lumpur, and Rod McGuirk in Canberra, Australia, contributed to this report.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 15, 2014 - 12:53am PT
I'm not saying anything but the official story is probably far from the actually truth.

I don't think there is an "official story." Other than maybe the "official story" is "We haven't got a clue."
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 15, 2014 - 01:20am PT
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — Investigators have concluded that one or more people with significant flying experience hijacked the missing Malaysia Airlines jet, switched off communication devices and steered it off-course, a Malaysian government official involved in the investigation said Saturday.

No motive has been established and no demands have been made known, and it is not yet clear where the plane was taken, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the media. The official said that hijacking was no longer a theory.

"It is conclusive," he said.

He said evidence that led to the conclusion were signs that the plane's communications were switched off deliberately, data about the flight path and indications the plane was steered in a way to avoid detection by radar.

The Boeing 777's communication with the ground was severed just under one hour into a flight March 8 from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. Malaysian officials previously have said radar data suggest it may have turned back toward and crossed over the Malaysian peninsula after setting out on a northeastern path toward the Chinese capital.

Earlier, an American official told The Associated Press that investigators are examining the possibility of "human intervention" in the plane's disappearance, adding it may have been "an act of piracy."

While other theories are still being examined, the U.S. official said key evidence suggesting human intervention is that contact with the Boeing 777's transponder stopped about a dozen minutes before a messaging system on the jet quit. Such a gap would be unlikely in the case of an in-flight catastrophe.

The Malaysian official said only a skilled aviator could navigate the plane the way it was flown after its last confirmed location over the South China Sea. The official said it had been established with a "more than 50 percent" degree of certainty that military radar had picked up the missing plane after it dropped off civilian radar.

Why anyone would want to do this is unclear. Malaysian authorities and others will be urgently investigating the backgrounds of the two pilots and 10 crew members, as well the 227 passengers on board.

Some experts have said that pilot suicide may be the most likely explanation for the disappearance, as was suspected in a SilkAir crash during a flight from Singapore to Jakarta in 1997 and an EgyptAir flight in 1999.

A massive international search effort began initially in the South China Sea where the plane's transponders stopped transmitting. It has since been expanded onto the other side of the Malay peninsula up into the Andaman Sea and into the Indian Ocean.

The plane had enough fuel to fly for at least five hours after its last know location, meaning a vast swath of South and Southeast Asia would be within its reach. Investigators are analyzing radar and satellite data from around the region to try and pinpoint its final location, something that will be vital to hopes of finding the plane, and answering the mystery of what happened to it.

___

Lowry reported from Washington.
Psilocyborg

climber
Mar 15, 2014 - 03:25am PT
notice that the only actual quote is "it's conclusive"?

all this ranting and raving and we get 2 words when taken out of context of the article don't mean sh#t?
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Mar 15, 2014 - 08:46am PT
is it full of weed?
did anyone check the lake uphill of the ditch?
TWP

Trad climber
Mancos, CO
Mar 15, 2014 - 12:52pm PT
Clinker did it.

See the "Make up a lie about the poster above" thread for full details, first revealed here, on Supertopo.
Psilocyborg

climber
Mar 15, 2014 - 01:02pm PT
what are the chances this "data stream" was hacked and/or manipulated
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 15, 2014 - 01:03pm PT
Werner's shot is obviously Diego Garcia. Look it up.

I thought the same thing a while back, by why would it fly there? There are some fishy looking objects on the other side of the island. Kinda like silos...

Acre-per-acre, probably the most heavily fortified US airbase. Home to B-52's, B1-B Lancers, and B2 bombers. Pretty secure too if you look at where it's at.

(just be quiet above those weird formations on the other side of the island).

Looks like awesome diving and snorkeling in the protected inner bay too.
overwatch

climber
Mar 15, 2014 - 01:03pm PT
How many times has that plane full of weed comment been made now?
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Mar 15, 2014 - 01:07pm PT
There was weed in the plane?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 15, 2014 - 01:10pm PT
Most posters here are from Caliweedcentric....I'm surprised Rado legalized it first.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 15, 2014 - 01:20pm PT
The plane is prolly in Western China, home to radical Uigher Muslims. They flew through Bangladesh, over the Himalayas, and home to Western China. Pretty clever too, because it was a red-eye. All military radar prolly just thought it was a regular commercial flight at the time. It was prolly 4am-5am when they flew through their perimeter.

If I'm right, WWCD (What Would China Do)? Probably annihilate everybody. Also, if I'm right, many diplomats are talking about passengers from their respective countries. "You can't do that!"
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 15, 2014 - 02:16pm PT
China shot it down.. That's why it's been so hard to find out anything.

On a more serious note. I'd doubt it flew over any nation with a serious and paranoid military. Like India, Pakistan or China. Probably tried to go to Somolia and didn't make it.

Unless the joke I made above is closer to the truth than I think.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 15, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
That's why I say Bangladesh. They are prolly rockin' WWII-era radar, if that, and prolly don't really give a f*#k about overflight intrusions.

India would, however. And have better systems.

If this was a skilled hi-jacking, which it appears to be, they would have known this.

China prolly shot here down over Western China. Or it landed safely there. I'm not up-to-speed on what kind of radar is on China's western front, but I'd imagine it's pretty good (post WWII, but not like ours). They do have Russkies right next door to keep an eye on.
Yak-Chik

Trad climber
Phoenix
Mar 15, 2014 - 03:41pm PT
EPIRB ..emergency position indicating radio beacon

They say the 777s have 2 of these that will float free of the jet if it
crashes in water and send emergency signals to the low
orbiting satellite networks.

They work anywhere on the planet. Anywhere.


If MH370 did a controlled ditch and sunk whole without leaving a debris
field they still are automatically ejected by water pressure triggered
bracket releases.

No EPIRB signals were detected so this here missing jet did not land in water its that simple.

see what they look like here
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/commercial/2,893.html


Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 15, 2014 - 04:57pm PT
They say the 777s have 2 of these that will float free of the jet

Not correct, but run with it anyway
MisterClean

Ice climber
Northern Eastside Malibu
Mar 15, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
What if !?!?



TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 15, 2014 - 09:54pm PT
Yet another theory, but some hard data as well.

http://theaviationist.com/2014/03/15/mh370-shadowed-other-planes/


MisterE

climber
Mar 15, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
Deep sleeper cell activated?
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 15, 2014 - 10:20pm PT
WB nails it::

It has now become fairly evident that the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing is not accidental. In fact, there is a strong possibility that the flight was commandeered to the US military base at Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. A bizarre “extraordinary rendition“?

http://abundantlifeliving.wordpress.com/2014/03/14/was-malaysia-airlines-flight-370-redirected-to-diego-garcia/
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 15, 2014 - 10:29pm PT
Look at the friggin map!

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 16, 2014 - 12:22am PT
more like http://LivingLifeIgnorant.wordpress.com/...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 16, 2014 - 12:33am PT

It has now become fairly evident that the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing is not accidental. In fact, there is a strong possibility that the flight was commandeered to the US military base at Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. A bizarre “extraordinary rendition“?

Question is, why? Electronic warfare engineers onboard? Or something else?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 16, 2014 - 12:37am PT
Oh, did you notice the surveillance pics of the 2 Iranians were doctored? Badly.

http://patdollard.com/2014/03/malaysian-police-deny-altering-mh370-iranians-photo/

They are hiding something that they prolly f*#ked up on....
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 16, 2014 - 03:30am PT
Diego Garcia is under near-continuous satellite surveillance by China/India/Russia, is barely big enough for the planes we land and keep there, and there is no where to hide a 777. People need to get a frigging grip and apply a modicum of common sense - it did not go to Diego Garcia.

overwatch

climber
Mar 16, 2014 - 03:33am PT
No they don't it's the internet
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Mar 16, 2014 - 01:00pm PT
Regarding TGT's map: Apparently the pings allow determination of the distance from the satellite, but not the position. Does anyone know how this works?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 16, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
The ping only shows the position of the satellite and angle of the satellite antenna at the moment the ping was received.

That means the transmission was made from somewhere on the red portions of the arc. It reveals nothing about the heading when it crossed that line.

That's a lot of ground to cover especially if the last transmission came while there was still a couple of hours of fuel left.

That could include all of the Himalaya and a big chunk of the western Australian desert.

It's looking like the captain had a motive.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581817/Doomed-airliner-pilot-political-fanatic-Hours-taking-control-flight-MH370-attended-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Mar 16, 2014 - 02:03pm PT
Obviously Klimmer is behind this.

RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 16, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
262 posts in and it's cintune for the win lol!
Sioux Juan

Big Wall climber
Costa mesa
Mar 16, 2014 - 02:37pm PT
its somewhere in the wonderland of rocks.....I think ?????????
toke,cough,burp ouch !
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Mar 16, 2014 - 03:41pm PT
Reports mention pings, plural. So each ping should yield a separate arc, unless the plane was traveling precisely along a single arc.
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Mar 16, 2014 - 04:04pm PT
Here are some question about the satellite: Is there only one capable of receiving the pings? If not other satellites receiving pings could produce possibly intersecting arcs.

Is the satellite in geosynchronous orbit? If not, multiple pings could yield separate arcs.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 16, 2014 - 10:34pm PT
it'll turnip.
MisterE

climber
Mar 16, 2014 - 10:51pm PT
Someone is just plane with us.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Mar 16, 2014 - 11:06pm PT
Y'all are speaking the plane truth, there.
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
Mar 17, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
For the families sake, I hope they find it soon!!!!!!
HermitMaster

Social climber
my abode
Mar 17, 2014 - 04:44pm PT
I know! I know!

It was Mustafah, in the cockpit, with a pipe wrench....
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 17, 2014 - 06:38pm PT
If it was in the water, seems some bodies would have shown up.

A month ago, some divers disappeared after their boat hightailed it due to an approaching storm. Some of the bodies drifted hundreds of miles.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/03/17/final-japan-diver-found-indonesia.html

A body believed to be that of a Japanese diver who went missing with six others off Bali a month ago has been found far from where she disappeared, Indonesian police said Monday.

The body, thought to be that of diving instructor Shoko Takahashi, was found at the weekend on Sempu island, East Java province, some 400 kilometres (250 miles) from where the divers went missing.

Five of the other female Japanese divers in the group were rescued days after they went missing on Feb. 14 while the body of a sixth washed up on the Indonesian resort island.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 17, 2014 - 06:48pm PT
If the plane went down in the southern Indian Ocean in the Roaring 40's
then the only place anything will wash up is Kerguelen Island, if that.
In waters that cold most bodies will sink. Maybe some wreckage will wash
up on the west coast of Australia in some months but that won't help much.


Coz, 777's don't autorotate well.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 17, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
Oh yeah....?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 17, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 found by Courtney Love? Singer thinks she’s located plane’s wreckage in satellite image

National Post Staff | March 17, 2014

http://arts.nationalpost.com/2014/03/17/courtney-love-thinks-shes-found-missing-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh370/
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 17, 2014 - 07:15pm PT
Courtney Love is always the person I think of when it comes to analyzing satellite imagery.

Mystery solved.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 17, 2014 - 07:24pm PT
Coz = Courtney?
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 17, 2014 - 07:52pm PT
So all the data has been analyzed by the best minds, and the obvious has sunk in at this point for everyone with at least 2 functioning brain cells.

The US seems to be pulling ships out. A needle in a haystack is probably 1000x larger to scale.

What to conclude?

Here's what pisses me off. This little 27 yr old urchin has something to say to everyone? So he politely says "good night", then steals a plane full of humans entrusted to him by the very system he seeks to defy? Hear me roar. What a punk-ass little coward. He was a ~13 yr old boy on 9/11.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 17, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
All airspace is closely monitored...Generation clue less sucks it up again.

So you fly west from the north end of the Malacca Straits for 200 miles
and turn south. I guarantee you won't be picked up by anybody's radar
until you get to southern Chile/Argentina, and then only if it isn't
siesta time. Who is clueless?
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
Mar 17, 2014 - 08:17pm PT
How come no one talks about the cargo or who were in the plane
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 17, 2014 - 08:23pm PT
That's bullshit Reilly,

Coz, kindly consult a globe and get back to me. If one wanted to make a
777 vanish they only had to do just what I described. Sometimes the truth
is quite prosaic.
John M

climber
Mar 17, 2014 - 08:24pm PT
Are you suggesting that in light of current events a 777 could land in Pakistani air space, take out the worlds biggest sh#t bird and fly away and CNN would be mystified? Seriously..

I believe that what he is saying is that once you are 200 miles from any landmass, then you aren't on anyone's radar. At least that is the way I understand it, once your transponders are off.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 17, 2014 - 08:26pm PT
They teach reading comprehension in collage, Coz. Were you out bouldering that day?
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 17, 2014 - 08:49pm PT
Conspiracy theory = attempt at relevance by those generally ignored.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 17, 2014 - 09:36pm PT
Whenever I can't find something I just quit looking for it. Within a couple of days it just shows up.
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Mar 17, 2014 - 10:07pm PT
The now infamous pings are part of the ACARS system which uses Inmarsat satellites. Inmarsat, a London based company has ten of these in geosynchronous orbit. Each can see approximately one third of the earth. It is reported that a ping was received 8 hours after the plane lost radar contact. Since these pigs are generated approximately once an hour, what happened to the previous 7 pings?

Also, if the plane was commandeered for an attack of some sort, why hasn't it happened yet? With the entire world looking for the plane, thee is nothing to be gained by delay. This may support my earlier conjecture that they are interested in something (or someone) on the plane.

I think there is a god chance that information is being deliberately withheld from us.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 17, 2014 - 10:12pm PT
Courtney & Coz have this all figured out. Everybody stand down.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 17, 2014 - 10:34pm PT
I heard Courtney found it in a .....""Hole"....

Only 666's disappear....
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Mar 17, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
The fact to even suggest a 777 is missing is the very hight of ignorance.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 17, 2014 - 11:29pm PT
Also, if the plane was commandeered for an attack of some sort, why hasn't it happened yet?

Probably because the intended target was in Indonesia and either something happened to prevent it or the captain changed his mind and just continued out to disappear into the Indian ocean.
overwatch

climber
Mar 18, 2014 - 01:02am PT
It is chilling to think of that huge bird augering into such a vast oblivion. The horror for the passengers and the continuing life altering trauma for their families is sobering. No matter what...something happened.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 18, 2014 - 02:10am PT
Ever been out to sea? The oceans are vast and our visual coverage of them at significant resolutions is limited, tasked, and prioritized. And when we do re-task hi-res resources for a search like this we also have to re-schedule associated terrestrial storage and processing resources for that imagery to be meaningful or useful.

It's naive in the extreme to think a 777 or any other aircraft couldn't easily be 'lost' at sea, particularly the Indian Ocean.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 18, 2014 - 09:50am PT
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 18, 2014 - 10:31am PT
No, 21million square miles of potential sushi!
Gene

climber
Mar 18, 2014 - 11:41am PT
This article is worth a look.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

g
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 18, 2014 - 11:54am PT
This is Obama's fault.

Obviously.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 18, 2014 - 11:57am PT
Morning, Ron!

A little early for leg-humping, though, isn't it?
overwatch

climber
Mar 18, 2014 - 11:59am PT
Good article...don't agree that the T' s would necessarily be drifting around deciding where to go but would already have that sussed. I do have some expertise in the field of CT work
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 18, 2014 - 12:03pm PT
They teach reading comprehension in collage

how about speeling?
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Mar 18, 2014 - 12:05pm PT
Someone is late to the party...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 18, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
"This thread is about another opportunity for Ron's unending need for attention"


Fixed that for ya.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 18, 2014 - 12:17pm PT
^^^^^
Well, that explains it. Case closed, and on to the next attention seeking thread for Ron!
John Mac

Trad climber
Littleton, CO
Mar 18, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
I thought the wired article was pretty good too. Thanks for posting a link to it.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 18, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
I thought the Wired article was grasping at straws. Besides, it hardly
holds a drop of water if the ACARS pings 7 hours later are valid.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Mar 18, 2014 - 12:33pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

How soon we forget.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 18, 2014 - 12:37pm PT
I liked the article, too - until I engaged my brain for ~10 seconds.

So, there's this electrical fire that conveniently only knocks out the tracking stuff - that is except for the satellite pinger - the plane flies for another 7+ hours regardless, all other systems operable. It's an emergency, we're all dying of smoke, we must get to the ground. 7+ hours. Dumb - super dumb.

Malaysia - anyone been? Way more lawless than Singapore. IMO, the third world isn't going to be kind toward the copilot's family. I hear they haven't been seen since the incident, probably never will again. I hope/trust the mob will torture them for a few days before cutting their heads off.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 18, 2014 - 12:43pm PT
Obama's death squads had Zoolander hijack the plane. (edited for clarity)

Obviously.
Alpamayo

Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
Mar 18, 2014 - 12:45pm PT
You seem to have a lot of anger issues. Why would you HOPE that anyone was tortured, much less the family of someone not yet established to be responsible for anything?
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 18, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
Report today that the the initial course changes were made by the flight computer, not manually. This seems like a planned diversion.

If they were going to land the thing they would want to burn as much fuel as possible.

I bet there are a lot of satellites scanning every airstrip long enough to land a 777.

More fodder for the speculation cannon.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 18, 2014 - 01:35pm PT
I bet there are a lot of satellites scanning every airstrip long enough to land a 777.

I'm assuming a few phone calls were made long before deploying several billion in assets and millions in daily (hourly?) costs for a water search.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 18, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
And just how we're they able to fly right across the whole of India to Pakistan? The Indians may be many things but stupid isn't one of them.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 18, 2014 - 04:32pm PT
Dave, BwaHaHaHaHa!

Treez, that's a crock. Try to imagine just how a 777 is gonna form up on another airliner a la NASCAR. You would have to be reeeel close! And how you gonna get reeeel close? You gonna overtake him? Right. You're gonna just slip in on him from his 4 or 8 o'clock, in the dark? You would still need a closing speed way in excess of what you would have available. It's another fairy tale.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 18, 2014 - 04:55pm PT
As well, this whole Freescale Semiconductor conspiracy theory seems to be even beneath the generally ignorant and sensational press.

Even if it were the Manhattan Project (I really doubt it), if 20 guys are out dicking around with fabricated samples with a vendor or manufacturing facility, that pretty much means the actual IP is on servers and in the minds of dozens if not 100's of other engineers all over the world, probably backed up every few hours. They won't be missed for long by The Man.

That reality aside, suggesting the pilots had advance notice of people and the contents of luggage, then decided it would be best to try and destroy it - that maybe an organization capable of such sophisticated spying, coordination of accomplices and interested in such IP would take the risk of, basically, a war for taking down a country's jet - instead of, say, sending in a college intern with a USB stick or a thief to grab a laptop or 2 ... just too stupid for me to see as even remotely likely.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 18, 2014 - 05:15pm PT
JLP, you're right, the Freescale thing is patently ridiculous in every respect. Georgetown and Penang, Malaysia together are one of the world's semiconductor hubs and having been there can say it's common as snot to fly boatloads of engineers in an out of the place. There's a regular tidal flow between Intel Georgetown / Penang and Intel Oregon - nothing whatsoever unusual about the Freescale passengers on the flight.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Mar 18, 2014 - 05:18pm PT
Gene posted it first but nobody seemed to pay it any attention.

Not as glamorous as all the other theories but does explain everything. In science at least, we say that the simplest explanation is the best one until proven otherwise.


http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 18, 2014 - 05:31pm PT
Doesn't make sense as a suicide or accident.
Not for the main pilot, not yet. I'd take a wild guess he was probably locked out of the cockpit or some such, only thing that fits in my head.

I read the copilot had strong political views. I predict the massive amount of dirt they've no doubt already collected on him leaks out a rather interesting picture in the coming weeks.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Mar 18, 2014 - 05:42pm PT
Perhaps going to 45,000 feet did put out the fire but killed the crew and passengers too?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 18, 2014 - 05:47pm PT
I read the copilot had strong political views

Pilot, not the copilot.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 18, 2014 - 05:50pm PT
Going to FL 450 ain't gonna put out no damn electrical fire and it ain't gonna kill
the pax either. It would raise the cabin altitude to about 12K. Are
you forgetting most of these people were probably already asleep?
Banks

Trad climber
Santa Monica, CA
Mar 18, 2014 - 05:50pm PT
Jan that was looked at ,, but the plane flew on for over 7 hours total, thus negating that theory..

Ron, the plane could have kept flying on auto pilot while the crew/passengers were already dead.

And why was there NO passenger calls ,, mayday calls etc etc.


Ever try making a call at 30,000 feet in the middle of nowhere? They also might have been dead already.

JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 18, 2014 - 06:06pm PT
Pilot, not the copilot.
Huh...Google...I've been corrected...and the news is days old...

Also found, apparently, to disable ACARS, you have to leave the cockpit, open a trapdoor, descend into a crawlspace and pull a fuse...



Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 18, 2014 - 07:20pm PT
I have a really hard time believing that there isn't a fuse or circuit
breaker accessible in the cockpit. Unfortunately, I know no 777 pilots.
Any other Boeing and I'd have an answer. While the fuse specific to the
ACARS might be outside the cockpit there has to be a master circuit breaker
in the cockpit. Also, while that info would not be something most pilots
normally study it has to be available in the airplane manual which could
have been researched beforehand.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 18, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
Yeah, after all the blah blah about his flight simulator, I was a bit surprised to learn it's basically just a game console running Microsoft.
karen roseme

Mountain climber
san diego
Mar 18, 2014 - 08:21pm PT
overwatch

climber
Mar 18, 2014 - 10:20pm PT
So will the general tone of this thread change if and when the dead bodies start popping up?
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 18, 2014 - 10:36pm PT
Reilly! Re your post:

While the fuse specific to the
ACARS might be outside the cockpit there has to be a master circuit breaker
in the cockpit. Also, while that info would not be something most pilots
normally study it has to be available in the airplane manual which could
have been researched beforehand.


For what is's worth: NBC News tonight had a retired pilot on the simulator, who said the circuit breaker for the ACARS was at the back of the cockpit area, and was no real problem to find.

I do think that jet is sitting on the ground ------somewhere.


MisterE

climber
Mar 18, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
LOL karen...complete with the mis-spelling - too funny!
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Mar 18, 2014 - 10:52pm PT
Lots of interesting news, with everyone trying to figure out the puzzle.

Public radio station WNYC has posted a map, of 634 runways with a length of at least 5,000 feet, and within 2,200 nautical miles of the flight's last known position:

http://project.wnyc.org/runways/

And a report from the Maldives of residents claiming to have been alarmed by a loud jetliner flying over their usually quiet island.... dunno what to think of this:

http://www.news.com.au/world/maldives-reports-sighting-of-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-as-search-effort-criticised/story-fndir2ev-1226858579129?from=public_rss
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 18, 2014 - 10:57pm PT
So some more clicking around seems to yield conflicting reports and understanding about ACARS. The system appears to have a few layers, the lowest level is what stayed up until the end, just pinging. This layer appears to require digging into the plane to disable according to Reuters and a few other sources. At a higher level, a layer that probably connects to other flight systems and packages the data for transmission is what was shut down, probably from the cockpit.

John Mac

Trad climber
Littleton, CO
Mar 18, 2014 - 11:35pm PT
Latest update are eye witness reports of the jet flying over the maldives...
soaring_bird

Trad climber
Oregon
Mar 19, 2014 - 12:45am PT
It was abducted by the alien mother ship, I tell you. Maybe we can ask Putin to ask his buddy Mr. Snowden what really happened.
He probably knows.

OK... just reaching, just like everybody else.
On the serious side, considering what is technologically possible with a little bit of pre-meditated research, we may be truly amazed by how the act was pulled off and how we resolved the mystery when the truth is finally discovered. Sooner or later, I believe it probably will be resolved.
On the other hand, DB Cooper was never caught and many historical aircraft disappearances have never been resolved. Some mysteries are perhaps just meant to never be fully known or understood. The unknown and unresolved are things that keep life interesting, and keep humanity somewhat humbled, as well we should be.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 12:58am PT
[quote]And a report from the Maldives of residents claiming to have been alarmed by a loud jetliner flying over their usually quiet island.... dunno what to think of this:

http://www.news.com.au/world/maldives-reports-sighting-of-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-as-search-effort-criticised/story-fndir2ev-1226858579129?from=public_rss[/quote]

This one may have legs. Corroborated by multiple people. AND, one of the runways the pilot had on his simulator was in the Maldives.

Oh and another runway on his simulator, I sh#t you knott, was Diego Garcia. Werner just may be right, again...

(Diego Garcia is just south of the Maldives chain, and the local Madivians said the plane was on a north to southwest trajectory)
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 01:06am PT


Anyone still believe you can hide a 777 on the Maldives or Diego Garcia?
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Mar 19, 2014 - 01:15am PT
What if it has been piloted successfully intact into North Korea?

They'd now have a reasonable way to deploy a WMD since they've been unable to via a rocket delivery system.


bwahahaha
It's a MAD MAD MAD MAD world.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 01:26am PT

Anyone still believe you can hide a 777 on the Maldives or Diego Garcia?


Well, did anyone ever think the largest commercial airliner ever built could simply disappear without trace for 11 days?

My point? When you eliminate all that is impossible, then what you have left, however improbable, must be the truth. (Sherlock Holmes).

This appears to be a complex scheme. I think that much is pretty evident.

The only way I see it going to Diego Garcia is a renditioning. It's a heavily protected, and classified US airbase!

But Maldives? Pretty close to US assets in DG. They'd be on a hostile entity pretty quick.

Somalia, or Yemen? I dunno.

The Maldivian locals saw the plane on March 8th too, 615am. That's a relatively long time ago. Thing can be anywhere now, assuming it's true.

EDIT:
Why do they build stealth bombers? Do you think we could just turn off a switch and disappear?

Do you notice they say lost on civilian radar.

If it's flown low enough, it would be masked by lower obstacles to radar. Literally blocked from radar beams.

Over the Indian Ocean that would change though. Not a lot to block even low-flying planes from getting 'painted' by radar. I guess it depends on who's doing the painting, and their position.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 01:29am PT
The Maldivian locals saw the plane on March 8th too, 615am.

Oh, yeah, every Maldiviano can tell a 767 from a 777, right? And was that
local time or Zulu? If it was local time it was prolly still pretty dark.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 01:33am PT
Reilly, I hear ya. Read the link. They said they are used to certain types of aircraft, but this one was huge, low, and unusual. Very loud.

That's what startled them.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
Mar 19, 2014 - 01:50am PT
Does anybody else out there remember this hijacking incident that involved four jets in the desert in the Middle East?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson%27s_Field_hijackings

Pretty crazy!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 01:51am PT
Also, has anyone figured out what happened to the pilot's wife and 3 kids who left the day before the flight? WTF is up with that?

Witness protection?

Was this indeed a CIA/DOD op to divert Chinese spies to Diego Garcia? The Freescale engineers? Others?

Notice the lack of silence from the mil community on why they can't find a plane that big? With all of our capabilities?

I have a co-worker who did some service-time on DG. A lot of places "you're not allowed to see". Especially the far part of the island, from the airbase.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm glad we have facilities like this. I have no doubt that there are certain tactical assets there, for certain enemies. Potentially.

EDIT:
Yea you're right Blue, stealth technology no reason for it, stealth helicopters to kill OBL, why the hell for, who needs it.

You do know that the Paki, spotted the stealth helicopter on their radar right?

It's just too funny people are buying this.... talk about drone aircraft, more like drone populous..

Most likely the 777, just flew under some palm trees for hours?

Think, Scott, think.

Stealth "fighters" have to dogfight at altitude against other fighters' local radar-locking systems.

Stealth Helos have to use typical redundancy techniches deployed by special operations. They don't know when they'll need to be cloaked, so make as low a signature as possible. As well as noise.

Also, military radar tracking may not raise alarm-bells unless a threat is diverting towards their airspace. If it's tracking parallel of leaving their perimeter, they may just blow it off! Not a threat.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 02:00am PT
Blue, I grant you the Maldive story might be the most believable yet.
There is no way he could have flown all the way there at that low of an
altitude so maybe he was about to put it down as he was getting low on gas.

BTW, in your link they show the purported screen grab of some Chinese dude
on Tomnod of the plane. That is bull as the res on Tomnod was better than
that. I saw some small fishing boats, less than 70 footers, and there was
no doubt.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 02:14am PT
BTW, in your link they show the purported screen grab of some Chinese dude
on Tomnod of the plane. That is bull as the res on Tomnod was better than
that. I saw some small fishing boats, less than 70 footers, and there was
no doubt.


I think a lot of that is stock pictures they have on file from other ops. They just roll it out as a 'reference'.

I think a lot of the "live" video they allude to be showing on all the news is the same.

But I could be wrong.
EDIT:

I could say some things about new radar-tech under development, but I won't elaborate. Not from me but someone I know, but I have to be quiet about it.

Needless to say, we have WAY more capability than you're hearing about.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 02:38am PT
"Stealth" is a design that avoids surface angles that would reflect radar.
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Mar 19, 2014 - 09:23am PT
Coz, you sound a lot like Klimmer. Good to know you've got it all figure out.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 19, 2014 - 10:36am PT
The islanders claim they saw the jet fly nw to se. The plane would have had to overshoot the island, make a huge turn toward almost back where they came from, all while avoiding radar and also somehow appearing to ping the satellite from 1000's of miles to the se - with near zero fuel. Another sensationally stupid story.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 10:48am PT
Well, the 777 certainly had the legs to make it to the Maldives, a lesser
distance than its planned flight. As to the purported 150 heading, well,
that's the least wacky part of this. Oh, and a heading of 150 would be
roughly in the direction of Diego Garcia!!!!!!!!!

Coz, did you ever check out a globe like I asked? IF the plane
headed west from the north end of the Malacca Strait for the Maldives then
a casual perusal of said globe would show that it would traverse a couple of
thousand miles of open ocean. And the last time I checked nobody has radar
sites in the open ocean, especially India or Sri Lanka, which the plane
would have passed 250 miles south of.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 19, 2014 - 11:39am PT
The one, single and only piece of actual data on the whereabouts of the jet is that satellite ping. If it doesn't corroborate with the ping data, it will be thrown out. Whatever "corridor" the engineers are able to narrow down based on calibrations, corrections, fuel estimations, whatever - that is where the jet is and where everyone will be looking for it.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 11:49am PT
JLP, agreed although I didn't want to be rude to the Maldivians. I am somewhat
sceptical of the 'ping' data but it does support my theory that they headed
west from the Malacca Strait and then turned due south. The ping would put
them about 15-25S along the 95E long line. To put that in other words that
there is smack dab in the middle of nowhere where even a stealth bomber could
disappear, forever.
Psilocyborg

climber
Mar 19, 2014 - 11:58am PT
If you think the US doesn't monitor who is flying where and when all over the world (wherever we can), you are mistaken. I am sure China is all over that part of the world as well, but no one is going to admit it....its a threat to a nations security for the cat to be let out of the bag.

IF the pilots family is missing, I would assume they were kidnapped and the pilot forced into whatever scheme if it indeed land somewhere.

There is no name for any "witnesses" of the plane, just some quotes that could easily be made up by some conspiracy theorist.

So much crap flys around the internet I don't know what to believe about anything anymore. However, I would be extremely surprised to learn that no one is paying attention to any and all air traffic.

I have never head of Diego Garcia before this. Pretty wild http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depopulation_of_Diego_Garcia
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2014 - 12:33pm PT
The only sure bet is that it's not currently still flying. That means it landed or crashed. If it landed, it landed at one of these:

kunlun_shan: Public radio station WNYC has posted a map, of 634 runways with a length of at least 5,000 feet, and within 2,200 nautical miles of the flight's last known position: http://project.wnyc.org/runways


But if it had, we'd know about it. More likely than not it's in the ocean somewhere and we may never find out where.

Someone posted earlier talking about a diver's body washing up in Indonesia. Most diving in Indonesia is shore diving - i.e. from shore or from a boat not far from shore. Some of that diving is 'drift diving' where you ride fast tidal currents along island walls. That's because there tends to be fairly strong currents in and around archipelagos and things often do wash ashore. Open oceans are another deal all together. In the Northern Indian Ocean this time of year debris would drift westward, eastward close to the equator, and westward again south of the equator. There is also circular cycling in places so it could also just go round and round over great distances.

Bottom line is the vast majority of the Indian Ocean is, for all practical purposes, a black hole with little com/milsat coverage because there is nothing there of any commercial significance or military consequence.

Also, forget about all this stealth / cloaking nonsense; there's nothing stealth about a 777 and no tech on earth which can make one stealthy.
WBraun

climber
Mar 19, 2014 - 12:39pm PT
South Korea develops first radar-absorbing paint.

Joe Healy is behind the times ...... :-)

https://www.google.com/#q=south+korea+anti+radar+paint&safe=off

GuapoVino

Trad climber
Mar 19, 2014 - 12:43pm PT
On the subject of stealth fighters here's a little trivia. On the the first one (F-117, the only one I was around and know anything about) the most high tech part of the plane was the paint. Their fancy word for paint was "coating". They experimented with several different coatings during the life of the plane and some were much more radar absorbent that others but the best ones didn't have a long life span because they were very rough and would blister and peel quickly when the plane heated up from the increased friction. Eventually they had to settle on a coating that was a compromise that gave a decent "stealthiness" but didn't require the plane to have to be re-coated too frequently.

Something else interesting was that the ground crews would wear white gloves while doing all the pre-flight stuff before the plane took off. They said that the oils and sweat from their hands would reduce the radar absorbing properties where they touched it. They also had some kind of black putty that they would smear over the heads of the fittings used to open the access panels while the plane was being started. That way all the metal parts on the outside of the plane were completely covered, even the little fittings and screw heads.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
Werner, if you read beyond the headline, as in the first sentence you'll find it reads:

South Korea has developed its first radar-absorbing paint

There's absolutely nothing new about these materials and they aren't going to hide a 777 or any other aircraft. 'Stealth' coatings only provide incremental decreases in signal return on aircraft and ships and are designed to contribute to a 'stealth' profile which is the cumulative result of many design elements with geometry principle among them. Read up on radar absorbing materials and you will find that the 'paints' in particular are notoriously difficult to apply, cure, and work with.

Again, no tech on earth is going to make a 777 stealthy.
WBraun

climber
Mar 19, 2014 - 01:19pm PT
Joe

The smiley face designates I'm yanking your chain in humor.

Be aware that not all is always what it seems ..... :-)
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Mar 19, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
This is definitely an interesting puzzle. And sad for the families.
The elecrical fire thing seems pretty doubtful. The aircraft made several course corrections after that supposedly would have had to have happened. And in almost any scenario, you'd think that the pilots would have tried a mayday call.

The rendition on Diego Garcia thing seems doubtful on the order of faked moon landing. Diego Garcia is probably pretty well-monitored by Chinese and Russian spy sats. Pretty hard to believe they wouldn't have made a stink if it was there. Not to mention that while I certainly think the CIa does kidnap folks, I doubt they would see hijacking a 777 as a good way to do it.

My best guess is that it is in the ocean somewhere. While there are many strips in range that it could land on, at most, if not all of those strips, someone would have noticed a 777. And even assumming the US/Chinese/Russians did it, the spy sats for the other countries would see it and they would most likely say something. And for the shorter/rougher strips, while you could land a 777 there, you probably couldn't get it back off the ground. Which defeats a number of potential reasons for hijacking one.
WBraun

climber
Mar 19, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
Which defeats a number of potential reasons for hijacking one.

Not so.

Try not to think of only the most obvious logical reasons and rule outs.

That's how you'll fail so easily as an investigator.

The door is wide open for these kind of events .......
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Mar 19, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
A plane that size hitting the water would likely leave stuff floating. But if it hit the water in a remote part of the Indian Ocean, it might be a long time before anyone spots the debris.

And yes, if we are to believe some media reports, the guy did practice remote landings (which might just be a fun activity, or it might be related to this). Again though, pretty hard for me to believe that one of the superpowers with sat/drone/U2/radar tech wouldn't have spotted that by now. And if it's the Chinese, why wouldn't the US say anything?

And as to crash landing on a short strip and not taking off, that means probably not being able to re-use the plane as a flying bomb. And you can't really resell it whole or for parts. Nor is there a lot of top-secret tech in a 777 that you couldn't get on the open market. Nor have there been any kind of ransom demands. So why then? Some sort of secret payload that someone found out about and wanted to hijack? That's about the only reason I can think of.
Jeremy B.

climber
Northern California
Mar 19, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
I'm saying that if such disappearing act where possible, why have stealth aircraft? Not to mention the highly develop radar of the military...

Someone talking a walk in London is easily observed. Someone dropped into the middle of the Sahara is probably never going to be found.

Some radar basics: Most relies on line-of-sight reflection off the target. Because the earth is round, ground-based radar usually has a limit of around 150-200 miles, and that's assuming the target is flying at 35,000 feet or so. For a target on the surface, the range is much less. (Another way to deal with this is to put your radar station in the air, which is why we have things like AWACS.)

The exception is over-the-horizon radar, which while a cool concept, has other limitations. Australia's system has a range of around 1,000-4,000km (officially 3,000km), and works by bouncing the signal off the upper atmosphere, down to the target, and back along the same path. However, for a target to be easily detected it needs to be moving generally towards or away from the island to create a doppler effect. (It also has to be aiming the beam at the right area at the right time.)
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2014 - 02:03pm PT
Given what the Chinese response would be, if a jihadist took it, it's the dumbest jihadist on the planet.
Banks

Trad climber
Santa Monica, CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 02:10pm PT
Cell phones rang for days after the disappearance, which they wouldnt do under fathoms of water

This means nothing. I can turn my phone off and chuck it in the ocean and it will still ring when someone calls.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 19, 2014 - 02:10pm PT
Compared to a modern ICBM, loading your weapon to a 777 would be a small step above strapping it to the back of a tortoise. Google the specs. Also, personally, if I wanted a jet, I would shop the used market over trying to steal one full of humans. More stupid theories nobody is paying any attention to.

Banks

Trad climber
Santa Monica, CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 02:14pm PT
With old phones, yes. But on newer phones you can have it ring just like normal.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 19, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
I forgot how entertaining it is to watch the general public talk about aviation stuff.

Comedy gold.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 19, 2014 - 04:01pm PT
I forgot how entertaining it is to watch the general public talk about aviation stuff.
Comedy gold.

Not just aviation. Doesn't matter what the subject is, there are dozens of Supertopo members who know absolutely nothing about it lining up to tell us what's going on.

Comedy gold indeed.
WBraun

climber
Mar 19, 2014 - 04:24pm PT
WTF man

Ask me about airplanes....I know everything since I'm a duck and fly around in the sky.

Wankers ....

:-)
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 19, 2014 - 05:05pm PT
Ghost said:
"Doesn't matter what the subject is, there are dozens of Supertopo members who know absolutely nothing about it lining up to tell us what's going on."

Not only that Ghost, this is the cream of the crop (with an exception or 2) in the states for intelligence. And they (we) all vote too. LOL
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 19, 2014 - 05:22pm PT
this is the cream of the crop

There are a lot of bright and knowledgeable people here. Most of whom are more than willing to share what they know. Makes ST a great place. The part I don't get is the "I don't have clue about this, but I'm damn sure going to post up anyway" syndrome.

Sometimes a poster will qualify that kind of post with a disclaimer that s/he isn't expert, and is trying to make an informed guess, but too many just blather away with no thought other than "gotta post, gotta post gottapostgottapost."

stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Mar 19, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
Hey! Come on.
I used to live in Seattle. And Boeing makes 777s there. Are you saying that doesn't make me an expert?
Psilocyborg

climber
Mar 19, 2014 - 08:18pm PT
So if the plane has crashed into the ocean, we have another mystery still....why weren't the emergency locator beacons triggered?

It is getting next to impossible to google these types of questions without getting sent to conspiracy theory websites...grrrr
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 08:25pm PT
Because ELT's have less than a sterling track record, especially if they
are 10,000' under the sea. The Air France 447 ELT was no help in finding the
wreckage as I recall.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 19, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
http://theaviationist.com/2014/03/16/satcom-acars-explained/
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 19, 2014 - 09:18pm PT
People like to discuss intriguing things, and that this is. I'd rather see people putting out theories than jokes. I can imagine that if someone I knew was missing in a situation like this, I would be scouring the net obsessively.

I'd rather see people trying to "figure it out," even though they are powerless to act, than see people joking. And suggesting the pilots may be guilt.... how horrible it must be to be a family members of those men.

As for Ron's post saying that one of those pilots practiced landings on remote strips in that region - I haven't seen that in any news accounts. I'd like to see the source cited on that claim.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 19, 2014 - 10:35pm PT
The name predates

the plane

Studly

Trad climber
WA
Mar 19, 2014 - 10:45pm PT
The most surprising answer to the missing airplane is also probably the most likely answer. No one dreamed of this scenario so they can't imagine the ending. Or can they... It's like a algerbrah equation.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 19, 2014 - 10:46pm PT
Gone but not forgotten.
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Mar 19, 2014 - 10:54pm PT
I urge all to look at the link to the aviationist article posted by TGT and in particular to read the comments. Many of these share my concern that we need the arcs from the preceding 6 pings. Just as an example, if the plane flew right under the satellite, the arcs would be a little tiny circle.

While many think the plane is in thee ocean, I don't share this view. This requires the plane to have undergone two low probability events, hijacking and then crash.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
Mar 19, 2014 - 10:57pm PT
Coz,

William of Ockham's Razor (AKA Occam's Razor).

"It states that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected."
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 19, 2014 - 11:01pm PT
That map has been repeatedly published and may be misleading. The assumption is that the ping was received from somewhere along that arc, but that may not be the case.

That arc may represent the physical limit of the aircraft antenna elevation range. If that's the case, it could have come from anywhere within that circle.

The ping is just that. It contained no more information than an identifying IP address.

stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Mar 19, 2014 - 11:10pm PT
Ron, Pakistan is undoubtedly one of the most heavily reconned countries in the world. I'm sure the US has plenty of drones and sats that could spot a 777 if it landed there. And Pakistani military radar is probably up to the task too. So that means both the Pakistani and US govts are keeping quiet. Maybe possible.
But it also means the Indians (who watch Pakistan very closely) and the Chinese (who probably keep a pretty close eye on that area too) are also being quiet.
Do you really think all that is likely?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 19, 2014 - 11:13pm PT
A hijacking is a lower probability because it is a much more complicated occurrence, not to mention the fact that no demands have been made. Name me one hijacking where no demands were made. Furthermore, did the plane have the fuel to make Pakistan? And how could it have traversed the whole of India without being noticed?
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 19, 2014 - 11:15pm PT
Hijacking seems much more common than 777 crashes.

My guess.. simplest scenario.

Hijacked and ordered to do something impossible.. ditched in the water hours later on an unknown course direction, fairly intact and sunk.. emergency beacons failed.

Never to be found.

Other scenarios are plausible based on the very limited credible verified info we have. Hell is there any? Other than that the plane existed and no one publically knows where it is. lol

Based on the info we are getting in public.. I would suspend most searches.

Personally I'd be all over beachcombers asking them to report anything possibly part of an aircraft, cargo, luggage or human remain.

Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Mar 19, 2014 - 11:15pm PT
Hi Coz
I meant low probability in an absolute sense, how many flights get hijacked and then crash? I think it is likely that 370 was hijacked.
WBraun

climber
Mar 19, 2014 - 11:17pm PT
You should have patience and stop letting your mind control you.

The answer will come

It might even take 108 lifetimes to complete ......
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 19, 2014 - 11:17pm PT
If a fire broke out in or around the cockpit, like a slow smoldering nose wheel fire, it could have easily effective numerous electrical systems and that could explain the lose of transponder signal, radio communication and other critical systems. A plane that landed or crashed on dry ground would be easier to locate than one land went into the sea.

Air France flight #447 took a lot longer to find in the Atlantic. It was widely assumed it was a terrorist attack. But in the long meticulous investigation it ended up being a mechanical failutr.

But you guys seem to be having a grand time assuming without evidence.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 19, 2014 - 11:31pm PT
Air France flight #447 took a lot longer to find in the Atlantic. It was widely assumed it was a terrorist attack. But in the long meticulous investigation it ended up being a mechanical failutr.

Yes, there was a very minor mechanical issue, but the "long meticulous investigation" you mention put the cause squarely as pilot error. Read the reports.





bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 20, 2014 - 12:30am PT
The Aussies may have spotted something, or two; http://patdollard.com/2014/03/breaking-australian-pm-says-2-objects-in-search-for-mh370-may-have-been-found/

P3's on the way to investigate.

Australia’s prime minister said Thursday two objects possibly related to the missing Malaysia Airlines flight have been spotted on satellite imagery and an air force aircraft was diverted to the area to try to locate them.

The Orion aircraft was expected to arrive in the area Thursday afternoon, Prime Minister Tony Abott told Parliament in Canberra. Three additional aircraft are expected to follow for a more intensive search, he said.

Abbott cautioned, however, that the task of locating these objects will be extremely difficult and “it may turn out that they are not related to the search for flight MH370.”
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 20, 2014 - 01:49am PT
Meanwhile , that former three star general said in the next 36 hours or so it will be proven to have landed in Pakistan. He wasnt able to divulge his intel providers.

Ron, you always put up such laughable sources. "That former three star general" reminds me of the time that I was congratulated by the Queen of England.

At least he said he was the Queen of England......
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 20, 2014 - 05:38am PT
Lt. Gen. McInerney has been a lot of things, and was effective in some of those roles, but a seasoned pilot isn't one of them. He only has 4100 hours - a bit under three times the minimum number of hours for an Airline Transport Pilot rating - and two thirds of which were in the army's Cessna 170 variant as a forward air controller and later as a trainer and team chief in F-4s. He was most effective later in his career in bureaucratic and political roles, but he's hardly what you'd call an 'aviation authority'.

And his 'source' is undoubtedly more ginned up gobbledy-gook from LIGNET which is a NewsMax-created 'intelligence' mouthpiece for ex-Reagan / Bush pols and spooks. The fact that John Bolton is involved in any capacity pretty much says everything one needs to know about it. Bottom line is the idea this baby landed in Pakistan lacks wings on any of several of fronts:

1) Carrier Strike Group Ten with CVN-75 Harry S. Truman was in the North Arabian Sea off Pakistan that day and would have been augmented by milsat coverage - it would not have escaped notice trying to come ashore within Pakistani borders.

2) It wouldn't have escaped commercial and military radars if it tried to cross into Pakistan by traversing any part of India.

3) You'd have to believe the Taliban control a suitable runway with a hanger capable of accommodating a 777 or that such a hangar even existed anywhere near an area with a strong Taliban / Pashtun presence (check it out for yourself...)

Quetta? Nope.
Shabaz? Nope.
Kohat? Nope.
Peshwar? Nope.
Risalpur? Nope.
Kamra? Nope.
Chaklala? Nope.

Some have plenty of runway, a couple of those could carry the weight, but it's a complete shutout on the hiding a 777 front.

4) It also wouldn't happen without the Paki intel organization ISI knowing about it and it's unlikely they'd be willing to play along or turn a blind eye given Pakistan, since 2010, has about $80 billion in ongoing deals with the Chinese who also act as significant counterweight against India.

All in all, it's not the brightest proposition to bubble up in the last couple of days.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 20, 2014 - 08:10am PT
Yes pilot error played a significant roll in exacerbating a mechanical failure.
My point was it took two years to recover the black boxes and determine that terrorism wasn't a cause.



Mar 19, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
Surprised, DMT didn't bust you for spelling failure wrong...

I guess he only humps my leg....

**Ghost if this conversation bother u so much don't log onto to the thread.:)

Really Coz? Maybe you should take your own advice.
Exactly what in Ghost's post did you take to indicate he was so upset.
Quit making things up in your own head and attempting to pass them off as reality.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 20, 2014 - 11:10am PT
I hope that they do find the plane, for the sake of the families and loved ones of the passengers and crew.

Perhaps - if the plane was landed - some governments DO know where it is, and are developing the strategy to deal with it in a way that has the best chances of safely removing the innocent people. If so,they surely wouldn't be having the media hint they know where the plane is.

Imagine what it must be like for several nations to agree on procedure and coordinate a strategy. How difficult to go into yet another nation and attempt a rescue.

This is my hope - That the plane was hijacked,landed safely, and the people aboard that plane are being reasonably cared for. That the location IS known, and a plan to go in and get those people out is paramount to the operation.

At this point, the worst possible thing,for the families and loved ones, would be to never have the answer, no matter what that answer is.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 20, 2014 - 11:19am PT
Wouldn't that be a beautiful thing. I'd be very happy to have been lied to if it gets those people home alive.

I sadly doubt any scenario like that is going to happen. But perhaps it's possible. Truth can be stranger than fiction occasionally.

One of the reasons SAR work matters regardless how often we can't bring them home alive is that.. as human beings we don't handle not knowing very well.
ec

climber
ca
Mar 20, 2014 - 11:20am PT
Sounds as if someone's been watching too many movies. The crew/passengers probably was overwhelmed by smoke from a fire, passed out and ran the tanks dry, then crashed. Remember Payne Stewart?
 ec
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
Mar 20, 2014 - 11:42am PT
The Payne Stewart tragedy was a very interesting case. The pilot did not have the proper training (his employer faked his training logs) and when the rapid de-pressurization in the plane occurred, he thought the model of jet he was flying had an automatic system to put extra oxygen in the cockpit.

Unfortunately, with that model of jet, the pilot had to manually put on an oxygen mask. The pilot, and everyone on board, passed out. The jet company was found guilty of forging training logs and is, thankfully, now out of business.
Psilocyborg

climber
Mar 20, 2014 - 12:10pm PT
The crew/passengers probably was overwhelmed by smoke from a fire, passed out and ran the tanks dry, then crashed.

Yeah dude I agree, I hope that happened too. If it turns out everyone is alive that would totally suck.


Unless it turns out like lost, where you think they are alive, but in the end you learn they are all dead. That would be cool....as long as everyone is dead.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 20, 2014 - 01:09pm PT
That map has been repeatedly published and may be misleading. The assumption is that the ping was received from somewhere along that arc, but that may not be the case.

That arc may represent the physical limit of the aircraft antenna elevation range. If that's the case, it could have come from anywhere within that circle.

LOL

Not correct and you yourself posted a link earlier that explains why



I have to give credit though, ST is still > CNN unless someone mentions tail flaps or thruster boosters

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 20, 2014 - 01:14pm PT
Ron, what's claustrophobic about this?


WBraun

climber
Mar 20, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
CNN = CIA news network tools ......

CNN = as bad or worst than FOX
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
Mar 20, 2014 - 03:29pm PT
Anyone else flown in an Airbus A380? It's huge! Nothing claustrophobic about it! Very comfortable in the air. The only way to fly if you have to slum it and go commercial.

DMT, yes, 'Airframe' is good fiction.
littlehammer

Mountain climber
Land of frozen crags
Mar 20, 2014 - 03:39pm PT
When the ax is falling no one wants 6 hours to anticipate the end.
Unless..



crusher

climber
Santa Monica, CA
Mar 20, 2014 - 03:49pm PT
I'm skeptical of the idea of a fire in the plane - somebody manually turned off one of the radar/transponders 12 minutes before the co-pilot said "alright, goodnight". If there was a fire everything certainly wouldn't have been "alright" (if the reason for turning of the tracker was a fire). Plus the great fluctuations in altitude. That doesn't make sense to me.

I'm really hoping that somehow this plane landed and those passengers are alive. It does seem really far-fetched but if this was just a case of terrorism or pilot suicide why fly all the way down to the bottom of the earth to drop the plane? I get flying to 45K - kill the passengers so there's no rebellion - but going 'til the fuel runs out and letting the plane go down there - weird. Unless the pilot or pilots just had a weird fantasy about wanting to see what would happen when they ran out of gas.

Now we wait to see if the debris on satellite is anything...
Hoser

climber
vancouver
Mar 20, 2014 - 04:37pm PT
its so far fetched that is outright impossible. Its quite sad to see the media create these outlandish stories about nuclear passenger planes at the expense of the families emotions.
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
Mar 20, 2014 - 05:18pm PT
ATC contact:Off
First or second officer, one kills another : checked
Change Direction:checked
O2 mask on:Checked
Decompress cabin,lower cabin temp:Checked
All passenger out in 5 min: checked
New coordination entered,Use NON-AC GPS,HAM SAT radio: Checked
Aircraft crash landed on ocean:Checked
Boat with divers to access the cargo area: Checked
All Gold removed:Checked
New ID /Facial surgery for one of the Pilot:Checked
$500 million dollar transferred: Done




overwatch

climber
Mar 20, 2014 - 05:32pm PT
Nice assessment, 007
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 20, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
This is the kind of incident in which limitless human imagination, powered-up by an innate fear of the unknown, is often less than helpful.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Mar 20, 2014 - 06:13pm PT
Crash landing in the ocean would likely be fatal to anyone left alive, especially if it went down in the roaring forties somewhere. It's not at all like Sully landing on the Hudson.

One can use this little tool to look at wave height and period, as well as wind forecasts around the world. Use the little arrow to put it in motion.

They call them the roaring forties for a reason.

http://forecasts.surfingmagazine.com/#place=0_179.5_1_1092_height_none_satellite_-1

Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Mar 20, 2014 - 08:15pm PT
Sadly, the world's oceans are also the worlds biggest garbage dumps. There is all kinds of crap floating around out there. Not too long ago we came across a floating full length chest freezer about 100 miles off shore.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 21, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
Panic bump...

You all have been off the grid nearly seven hours, man!!!!

WTF?

What's the number for 911?



Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Mar 21, 2014 - 03:24pm PT

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before but I just read that one possible source of fire and electrical malfunction could be a shipment of lithium ion batteries in the cargo hold. So far I haven't seen any discussion of the cargo but those batteries have caught fire several times now while on board planes.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 21, 2014 - 03:38pm PT
You all have been off the grid nearly seven hours, man!!!!

Yeah. I've stopped watching this. Either something drifts ashore eventually or not. A watched pot never boils.
overwatch

climber
Mar 21, 2014 - 03:50pm PT
Mr. Andersons' doppelganger strikes again
WBraun

climber
Mar 24, 2014 - 11:39am PT
Yes just make up sh!t even though you have no clue what so ever.

Failed again .....
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 24, 2014 - 11:42am PT
Inmarsat seem confident of their analysis. Those guys are far from stupid.

Went down in the southern Indian Ocean. RIP

Why is still the realm of idle speculation at this point.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Mar 24, 2014 - 11:44am PT
There was some talk about the cargo of lithium ion batteries right after the plane went missing. I recall hearing something about it being illegal to transport them on passenger aircraft.

My question is how does a plane being consumed by the raging fire these things can create simply fly normally on cruise until it runs out of gas. Things don't add up...
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 24, 2014 - 11:46am PT
Mar 24, 2014 - 08:37am PT
Occam's Razor is once again correct
along with Dr. F's prediction
What do I win??

Nothing since you stole that from me
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 24, 2014 - 11:47am PT
Prolly better they abandon the search before one of those planes with a dozen pairs of eyes follows it into the drink. I heard those guys are dangerously tired.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 24, 2014 - 11:48am PT
Not to mention that batteries not under any load, let alone not even being
connected, would be as safe as houses.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 24, 2014 - 11:50am PT
There is NOTHING to suggest the completely legal and apparently properly stowed shipment of Lithium batteries had anything to do with the loss of this flight.

Somehow it became a focal point of about a day of reporting for no good reason except that they existed in the manifest and lithium batteries have caused problem on flights in the past. Is it possible , Yes but not too likely. Lots of other things are equally or much more possible. Most of these other possibilities have not gotten a day of Idle speculation on CNN yet.. perhaps they will.

I'm still sticking with a highjacking gone bad and crashed in the ocean scenario for my pick. Correct on the Ocean part it seems.

Just my idle speculation.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 24, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
pretty sick of 'news' outlets like CNN exploiting and flashing video of the grieving and wailing families but i guess thats what people want to see in between their commercials

fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 24, 2014 - 12:12pm PT
ok well done then

*high five*
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Mar 24, 2014 - 12:16pm PT
They still haven't gotten to the bottom of the stolen passport business. Seems thousand of people, tens of thousands, use them every day. Wonder what the big deal in stopping that is?

In Viet Nam last year, I was surprised how comprehensive the info was on the screen, when the immigration guy swiped it. And that was on my way OUT.

Was strange to see it, normally you never get to see the computer display, but Viet Nam is a communist country, you're not allowed to say jack, so you're allowed to see it.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 24, 2014 - 12:39pm PT
but Viet Nam is a communist country, you're not allowed to say jack

That's the way it should be.
This is what you get when you jack with a Soviet border/customs guard...
BLD

climber
Mar 24, 2014 - 12:46pm PT
A link of the latest.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26716572

overwatch

climber
Mar 24, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
Some may view even having such a contest could be construed as joking.
command error

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 24, 2014 - 02:45pm PT
Anyone seen any modeling on how this 777 would behave
if it really was a zombie or ghost plane when the fuel was used up?

Twirling spin into the ocean or would the auto pilot glide the sucker
in for best case water landing? (Yah I know 40ft waves down there)



littlehammer

Mountain climber
Land of frozen crags
Mar 26, 2014 - 02:13pm PT
Jebus how can you say that? What if the next time you fly, a
Captain Shah is at the controls?

they are saying his wife just left him because he had a mistress that also just left him. Dude was depressed. The mistress is hot.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/air-accidents/news/article.cfm?c_id=665&objectid=11226334



climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 26, 2014 - 03:16pm PT
Anyone seen any modeling on how this 777 would behave
if it really was a zombie or ghost plane when the fuel was used up?

Twirling spin into the ocean or would the auto pilot glide the sucker
in for best case water landing? (Yah I know 40ft waves down there)

Depends how "smart" the Autopilot and trim systems are.

If it tried to maintain altitude as a priority over airspeed then it would stall and that leads to really bad stuff.

How good is the autotrim if one engine flames out first? My guess.. good enough

If it maintained airspeed as a priority then it might smoothly glide into the ocean.. which is probably rough there and it would still break up a fair bit likely. Bigger pieces though.. maybe.


BLD

climber
Mar 26, 2014 - 03:29pm PT
I wonder what happened to The 3-star General and Boeing knowing it had landed in Pakistan. Maybe someone planted the debris in the south Indian Ocean using their "search plane or boat".
WBraun

climber
Mar 26, 2014 - 03:31pm PT
The bottom line is no one knows except those who know.

And those who know are not talking .....

Yet.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Mar 26, 2014 - 06:45pm PT
My money is on the pilots took it down on purpose which explains no radio traffic.
The transponder had been turned off also. Those cockpit doors are pretty
inpenetrable now so that furthers the Death By Pilot theory.
2nd post on this thread.
Reilly was prescient of the current thinking.

My own Alternate Reality theory is that it is a terrorist bombing. With a new psychological twist. Leave everyone wondering. Not knowing is often worse than knowing. And watch the US, China, Malaysia, Australia etc spend all this time and effort looking for them. Sometime in the future come out with the truth.
However, as time goes on, this appears very unlikely.

I'm inclined to think the hijacker wouldn't have let it run out of fuel. Too much chance of it remaining in one or two pieces. I'm guessing push the throttles forward, push the nose down. Maximum destruction of the plane and passengers.

Besides the locked cockpit door, modern airliners have another un-intended risk. Only two crew in the cockpit. Without a third to intervene, any clever and motivated pilot can disable or kill the other by stealth or surprise. Now with the locked door no one can stop him.

I'm fairly certain they'll find the "black" boxes. (They're actually bright orange). They're supposed to ping for 30 days. We have "assets" (think submarines and deep ocean submersibles) that can go hunting for the ping now they have a search area narrowed. Sonobouys that can listen for the pings (I saw one being tossed out of an Australian search plane). Other "assets" we may not know about for years.

And those who know are not talking .....
Pretty hard to talk when you've been under a few thousand feet of water for nearly three weeks.
WBraun

climber
Mar 26, 2014 - 06:58pm PT
How do you know they are under thousands of feet under water?

You don't know anything at all and yet make make such statements.

Like I said no one knows anything except those who who know.

Doesn't even mean those who know where even on the plane ......
GuapoVino

climber
Mar 26, 2014 - 07:09pm PT

These guys know.
WBraun

climber
Mar 26, 2014 - 07:13pm PT
Yep ... that's it .....^^^
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 26, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
So in the end, it seems to be all about some guy and his relationship issues.

Usually is, I guess.

Rosebud...!!
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Mar 26, 2014 - 07:20pm PT
You don't know anything at all
Werner, there are a few things that are certain.
One of them is that the plane ended it's flight nearly three weeks ago about 2000 miles southwest of Perth Australia. In a notoriously dangerous area of ocean called the roaring 50's.
So perhaps some of the bodies are still on the surface. I was taking poetic license.

Unless perhaps the aircraft landed on an unknown island or perhaps Khazaktan?
Trusty Rusty

climber
Tahoe Area
Mar 26, 2014 - 07:26pm PT
Might as well put the dramatic assumptions and theories to rest. (good practice anyway) Unless recovery turns up significant evidence of a cockpit fire or an obvious smoking gun, this one will likely loom in mystery for a long long time.

Malaysia will lead the investigation because the bird was registered there. Boeing will support NTSB and NTSB may or may not be involved in the investigation. Totally up to Malaysia. . . hard to imagine a crack team of inspectors there in the Durian groves, but we'll see.
WBraun

climber
Mar 26, 2014 - 07:34pm PT
HighTraverse

WTF man ????

We're not agreeing to anything.

It's time we call each other out and go at each other.

Then we'll start several threads on the merits of virtual internet violence.

Hundreds will voice their opinions to this.

They'll all come out of the wood works.

We'll get banned and cry like girls?

Just another normal day on the internet ...... :-)

HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Mar 26, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
you, me and donini going at it at at the same time on April 5th.
about 195 years of man muscle at it's finest. We can do it again in 2016 to make it 200 total years.

awesome dood!
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Mar 27, 2014 - 12:36am PT
It took them 2 years to find the black boxes from the Air France flight. That went down in a friendlier part of the Atlantic, and they had much better idea where, as they recovered debris just days after the crash.

This will be much harder, even though they now have a general idea of where.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 27, 2014 - 11:35am PT
And some wonder why they can't find the plane?

(Reuters) - The Canary Islands emergency services on Thursday said staff mistook a large tugboat pulling a ship for a crashed plane two miles off Gran Canaria Island, moments after saying that a plane had fallen into the sea.

"It's not an airplane, it's a big tugboat pulling a ship," a spokeswoman for the Canary Island emergency services said.

WBraun

climber
Mar 27, 2014 - 11:38am PT
Why does Israel have the exact same Malaysia Airlines plane in storage in Tel Aviv?

Boeing 777 2H6(ER) - 28416/155, an identical twin of the missing plane, which has been in Israel since November 2013.

The serial number is the only difference .....
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 27, 2014 - 11:41am PT
The USN has routinely hidden the largest ships in the word from an adversary that was searching for them intensely.

http://xbradtc.com/2014/03/24/maritime-domain-lessons-from-mh370/


The uninformed reader might think that in the age of global satellite converage it would be diffcult to hide a Carrier Strike Group (CSG) in the ocean but this isn’t the case.

The ocean is a really big place.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 27, 2014 - 12:33pm PT
One thing SAR experience teaches you really fast.

Sh#t disappears easily. Planes are regularly lost forever in searchs on LAND involving a known area of a 100 square miles or so.. let alone 1000's in the ocean.

BrentA

Gym climber
Roca Rojo
Mar 27, 2014 - 12:39pm PT
I saw this on another forum.

Haven't vetted the source. Not claiming it's truth.

http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2014/03/rothschild-takes-down-malaysian-airliner-mh370-to-gain-rights-to-a-semiconductor-patent-getting-rid-of-those-who-stood-in-his-way-2607888.html
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 27, 2014 - 12:39pm PT
Muslims did it
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 27, 2014 - 12:56pm PT
BrentA, how would the loss of engineers merely involved in the production side 'give' the patent
rights to Rothschild? I'm no lawyer but that seems like a real crock. Oh, wait, I forgot the
article named him as being an Illuminati. My bad.
BrentA

Gym climber
Roca Rojo
Mar 27, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
Not my position in this.

Just adding a bit to the popcorn bin.

If you were as bold as me and read the whole thing...

it says 4 of 5 members of the patent app went down on the flight...leaving the 5th member holding sole rights.

I found it interesting (if true) that the staff on board was working on anti-radar detection or whatever....
BrentA

Gym climber
Roca Rojo
Mar 27, 2014 - 01:04pm PT
but my money is on the Reptilians (wink)(joking)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 27, 2014 - 01:07pm PT
Well, I will admit My boldness waned when I saw Illuminati. Actually, my vision glazed and
I couldn't make it to the end. Even if every patent holder was on the plane I really doubt they
all named Rothschild as their heir. And in the case of the company holding the patent how
does the patent devolve to Rothschild?
BrentA

Gym climber
Roca Rojo
Mar 27, 2014 - 01:11pm PT
I'm not spelling out any of these answers.
If you bother to read the article it explains both the patent transfer (or is it?) and the Rothschild angle.
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Mar 27, 2014 - 01:17pm PT
I just knew it was the, Jews. . .
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 27, 2014 - 01:22pm PT
Sorry, I just had a really hard time taking a journalist who uses the 'I' word seriously. And after
finishing it it makes just as little sense since Rothschild already owns the company. Stoopid
grasping at straws News Of The World tripe. And just how would the good Mr Rothschild go
about arranging for an airliner to change course and altitude numerous times, while under
control, and then fly for five hours in a straight line? I know the Illuminati are powerful, but......
BrentA

Gym climber
Roca Rojo
Mar 27, 2014 - 01:28pm PT
So quick to call this article rubbish (which it is)
and so quick to take the official story balls deep.

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 27, 2014 - 02:18pm PT
so quick to take the official story balls deep.

What official story?

The plane is missing and presumed down in the southern Indian Ocean, cause unknown. Search ongoing, nothing found yet.

Not much of a story there to disagree with.

The rest is at best informed speculation at worst tinfoil nut junk that is as predictable as the sun rising.
BrentA

Gym climber
Roca Rojo
Mar 27, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
A lot of semantic/pedantic bad neighbors on this site (serious)

This was the quote I was responding too...

"for an airliner to change course and altitude numerous times, while under
control, and then fly for five hours in a straight line?"

Past that I was just bored. Another point of data on my graph affirming not to post on the internet.

John M

climber
Mar 27, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
yep.. it gets frustrating when people misunderstand your point and take it in a fully negative direction. Something you could correct in person before they get fully wound up, but which you can't do on the internet.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 27, 2014 - 02:49pm PT
So what part of that quote contradicts the few extant facts in this sad story?
Yes, that flight profile could have been programmed into the flight
director before takeoff thereby allowing the Illuminati Suicide Team to
kill all the pax but that seems highly redundant, doesn't it? The Illuminati
really don't like spending their hard-stolen money unnecessarily.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 27, 2014 - 02:55pm PT
Sorry BrentA, I misunderstood you.

Guess I owe ya a beer if we meet sometime..coo?
BrentA

Gym climber
Roca Rojo
Mar 27, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
I just want to hear more about Hangar 18 in Israel with the twin plane.

C'mon Werner.
WBraun

climber
Mar 27, 2014 - 03:44pm PT
Here ya go

http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28416,N105GT-GA-Telesis-php
BrentA

Gym climber
Roca Rojo
Mar 27, 2014 - 04:19pm PT
WB- cheers.

Always find your take prompting me to look a diff direction.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 27, 2014 - 04:31pm PT
googled" Boeing 777 in Israel" and this is first hit:

http://redicecreations.com/article.php?id=29535


Still doesn't answer what happened to the flight from Malaysia, but if something occurs as is suggested, it would be pretty awful. it would make me wish the world would get demolished with only insects to survive. Mankind doesn't deserve to proliferate, if that is what we've come to.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 27, 2014 - 04:48pm PT
if they use it in a false flag operation it won't be in the US

the american military isn't just going to let an unknown aircraft from that part of the world fly across the Atlantic into our airspace without shooting it down
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 27, 2014 - 04:51pm PT
Malaysian Airlines had 17 of that type (777-200). Fourteen are still in operation, one is (presumably) at the bottom of the ocean, one is in Orlando, scheduled to be scrapped, and the other, the one Werner has you all excited about, was sold to GA Telesis last October. GA Telesis is a well-known US company that leases aircraft, offers aircraft maintenance, and also sells aircraft parts. Why is that aircraft is in Tel Aviv? Well, it could be because Israel Aerospace Industries has one of the world's biggest aircraft maintenance, repair, and overhaul facilities there.

Of course, it's far more interesting to assume that it's all part of the American/Zionist/Illuminati plot to magically destroy a Malaysian plane and then cunningly replace it with a similar one in order to...

Uh, wait, tell me again what they're going to do with this plane they've had hidden in plain view for the last six months. I seem to have forgotten.
overwatch

climber
Mar 27, 2014 - 04:54pm PT
it is not so weird actually. most Special Operations hostage rescue teams utilize similar aircraft in training and rehearsal to the ones on which they may have to operate.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 27, 2014 - 06:04pm PT
They also watch their costs.. they woulda picked a 747 or something older instead..mockups for that are already in place or easy cheap to obtain.
WBraun

climber
Mar 27, 2014 - 06:22pm PT
And the latest news the US awacs took control of the plane and flew it into a remote canyon in the Himalayas.

Hahaha too funny.

meanwhile back in Israel ....

They're now strappin on the big one to the Malaysian clone ......

:-)
overwatch

climber
Mar 27, 2014 - 06:36pm PT
Climbski,

Maybe
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 27, 2014 - 08:07pm PT
Doppler effect analysis on Satellite pings disclosed MH370′s final route


In recent days Inmarsat developed a second innovative technique which considers the velocity of the aircraft relative to the satellite. Depending on this relative movement, the frequency received and transmitted will differ from its normal value, in much the same way that the sound of a passing car changes as it approaches and passes by. This is called the Doppler effect. The Inmarsat technique analyses the difference between the frequency that the ground station expects to receive and that actually measured. This difference is the result of the Doppler effect and is known as the Burst Frequency Offset.
The Burst Frequency Offset changes depending on the location of the aircraft on an arc of possible positions, its direction of travel, and its speed. In order to establish confidence in its theory, Inmarsat checked its predictions using information obtained from six other B777 aircraft flying on the same day in various directions. There was good agreement.
While on the ground at Kuala Lumpur airport, and during the early stage of the flight, MH370 transmitted several messages. At this stage the location of the aircraft and the satellite were known, so it was possible to calculate system characteristics for the aircraft, satellite, and ground station.
During the flight the ground station logged the transmitted and received pulse frequencies at each handshake. Knowing the system characteristics and position of the satellite it was possible, considering aircraft performance, to determine where on each arc the calculated burst frequency offset fit best.
The analysis showed poor correlation with the Northern corridor, but good correlation with the Southern corridor, and depending on the ground speed of the aircraft it was then possible to estimate positions at 0011 UTC, at which the last complete handshake took place. I must emphasise that this is not the final position of the aircraft.

http://theaviationist.com/2014/03/27/inmarsat-helps-finding-route/
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 28, 2014 - 09:51am PT
Seems the oceans are full of trash. Kind of knew that already but there's a LOT of pretty big stuff just floating around out there. Must be a lot more we can't see. Makes me sad. Makes it pretty hard to find something you're actually looking for too.
WBraun

climber
Mar 28, 2014 - 12:50pm PT
Flight 370 The CIA Hoax: Gordon Duff

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/03/27/flight-370-the-cia-hoax-gordon-duff/

Role of Israel and Soros Exposed by MH370 Twin Jet in Tel Aviv

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/03/27/role-of-israel-and-soros-exposed-by-mh370-twin-jet-in-tel-aviv/

A real strange one here.

I have been held hostage by unknown military personal after my flight was hijacked (blindfolded).
I work for IBM and I have managed to hide my cellphone in my a*# during the hijack.
I have been separated from the rest of the passengers and I am in a cell. My name is Philip Wood.

I think I have been drugged as well and cannot think clearly.


http://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/27834494/#27834494

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/texas-family-missing-malaysia-airlines-passenger-hope-alive-article-1.1723968

Who knows????



Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 28, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
QuoteI work for IBM and I have managed to hide my cellphone in my a*# during the hijack. Here

yes,that is a touch 'strange'. and how was he able to effect that on an airplane? Highjackers aren't famous for letting people go to the head and it would be tough to pull off in most airline seats without drawing attention.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Apr 1, 2014 - 03:10am PT
hard to tell whether this is a valid intel leak or disinformation:

If someone told you exactly what happened to the missing Malaysian flight — someone with access to the intel — what would you do?

The plane took a Northern route to Pakistan, where it landed. The passengers were already dead, and the plan was to load a nuclear weapon from there and fly it to Israel. They wanted a 777 for weight carrying range, and the likely delay in a decision to shoot down a commercial plane. And when the missiles did come, the plan was for an air burst, poisoning the region.

But that plan was interrupted by Israeli special forces who took out the plane on the ground in Pakistan.

China tracked it the whole way in, with several Chinese nationals on board to protect. They cooperated with Israel in their defense.

So my mind raced — is this true, and why would the U.S. let it leak out? And not all of the U.S. efforts are on the same page. There is at least one commercial submarine effort underway to search for the black box in the Indian Ocean.


As for the simplest answer, a crash into the ocean, there are some problems, like the Boeing engines reporting four hours of flight post-disappearance and the cellular and Chinese QQ handshakes with the on-board phones for days afterward, as reported in the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/.../fdb78642-a862-11e3-b61e...



A few more things to consider:

Given that the plane has apparently disappeared without a trace… which is extremely improbable in today’s total surveillance world… if it was hijacked we have to ask who has the capabilities to make such a miraculous disappearing act happen. The most likely answer is elements within intelligence services and other agencies of a small handful of governments. In this scenario, the hijacking would have been done electronically and the plane flown by remote control, which we know is possible.

From the standpoint of technical capabilities, the list of possible nations would probably have to include China, but China would seem to have much less to gain than the US, certain US allies, and Western oil companies, banks, and defense contractors in the colossally profitable “War on Terror.”

There’s also the evidence of eyewitness accounts from residents of the Maldive Islands, dozens of whom reported seeing the plane flying at low altitude and heading in the direction of Diego Garcia. Why would ordinary people lie about such a thing?

So here’s a hypothesis which is suggested by more evidence, eyewitness and circumstantial, than most other theories. The plane is in Diego Garcia. It was (or perhaps still is) intended to be used in a false flag terrorist attack against a Western target, blaming Muslim terrorists, and used as an excuse to dramatically ramp up the “War on Terror” and the crackdown on civil liberties.

For some reason, perhaps having to do with an operational error, the attack has not yet taken place. Hopefully it won’t, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it does. In the extremely unfortunate event that it does, the least plausible explanation will be that such an amazing feat was pulled off by Muslim terrorists. But that won’t stop the mainstream media — which lies through its teeth about everything, events in Ukraine being the most recent example — from shoving it down the throats of millions of gullible suckers anyway. Hey, if it keeps working, why change?

The great French philosopher, law professor, historian, and sociologist Jacques Ellul described in his book Propaganda: The Formation of Men’s Attitudes how people with the greatest amount of formal education are the most susceptible to being bamboozled by propaganda, especially if they consume a great deal of mainstream media. For those of us with a lot of formal education… too late, lol. Fortunately there are also benefits of formal education, and we can always make the decision to stop being conned by the massive mainstream media propaganda juggernaut. If more of us made such a decision and stuck to it, the world would be a much better place.

So I asked, to see if rattled the confidence of the source. His retort: "The Inmarsat satellite and ground receivers do not have picosecond resolution to effectively implement Doppler radar analysis of flight path….though spy satellites do…..and of course these spy satellites have the ability to track easily the flight path, but data is classified and not available…..so lots of misinformation in public."

"spy satellites have the ability to track easily the flight path, but data is classified and not available"... it seems highly unlikely that US intelligence agencies would not have been tracking the flight after it disappeared, yet apparently continued flying for hours.

If that is the case, what are the likely reasons for keeping the whereabouts of the plane secret? If the Pakistan story is true and the alleged nuclear terrorist plot has already been foiled by the Israelis in Pakistan, it seems highly unlikely that this would not have been widely trumpeted as a much needed example of the success of the "War on Terror." The most probable reason that it wouldn't be trumpeted is that it didn't take place.

Assuming the plane was tracked by spy satellites, what is another possible reason for keeping its whereabouts secret? It was hijacked by another nation (perhaps China as Alex Lightman suggests) but the incident is being kept secret for diplomatic reasons.

I suppose this is possible, and it sounds somewhat more plausible than the Pakistan story, but it also seems extremely risky for China, whatever their motivations might have been.

Another possibility is that the plane was (and perhaps still is) intended to be used in a false flag attack against a Western target. This possibility is suggested by established past history, as well as a series of bizarre anomalies from the Pakistan story above, to Rupert Murdoch's tweets, to the strange statement from Israel last week, to the apparent existence of an identical plane in Israel since December, to the fairly consistent drumbeat coming from all Western propaganda outlets suggesting Muslim terrorist involvement despite not a shred of evidence.

It's both amusing and dismaying that so many otherwise intelligent people reject the slightest consideration of the false flag possibility, given the long history of acknowledged false flags to justify war or specific actions within the context of war.

Just a partial list of acknowledged false flags (or otherwise dishonestly reported attacks) includes events which precipitated the Mexican American War, the Boer Wars, and the Spanish American War; the sinking of the Lusitania; the King David Hotel bombing; the Lavon Affair; the Gulf of Tonkin incident; and the USS Liberty incident.

Those are just acknowledged cases... other possibilities include alleged foreknowledge and supporting evidence concerning the attack on Pearl Harbor, and of course the most preposterous and quite simply impossible conspiracy theory in human history, the official story about 9/11.

One would think that just the acknowledged cases would be enough to cause concern, especially given the horrible wars they were used to falsely justify. And of course the cases of acknowledged false flags are just a very small sampling of governments lying to their citizens on behalf of their plutocrat puppet masters.

You'd think people would start to learn, but alas, they don't. That's incredible, but certainly no accident considering the consistent orchestrated ridicule of "conspiracy theories" in the mainstream media's 24/7 propaganda echo chamber... despite numerous real conspiracies involving governments being established fact. Systematic propaganda, indoctrination, mass dumbing down, and brainwashing? Mission accomplished!

P.S. Remember folks, regardless of what happened to MH370, Muslims are bad and Putin is the new Hitler! He invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea! The US had nothing to do with the events in Kiev! Nothing! We have to respond to Russian aggression! Lololol…
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Apr 1, 2014 - 07:21am PT
Exactly as I had predicted, and as was rather obvious in the beginning, the plane went south to the biggest hole in the planet and dove into into it. The pings will go silent in a few days. They may get lucky someday and find some seat cusions, but they will never find that plane.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Apr 1, 2014 - 12:23pm PT
I work for IBM and I have managed to hide my cellphone in my a*# during the hijack.

Wonder where he hid the charger
RoryKuykendall

Mountain climber
Glacier National Park, then maybe Death Valley??
Apr 2, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
Here is something I posted today on facebook about this. Curious to see what anyone here thinks. I reference this Keith Ledgerwood blog in my comments, in which he theorizes that the plane snuck into Central Asia hiding behind another commercial flight, because I think it's the best theory out there, and it explains a lot about how this whole thing is being handled.

http://keithledgerwood.com/post/79838944823/did-malaysian-airlines-370-disappear-using-sia68-sq68

"If you look at everything that's happened since this plane disappeared, there is a story which starts to emerge. The plane was successfully stolen and landed somewhere in Central Asia, using SIA68 to hide from radar. For a couple of days everybody assumed that this was another Air France situation and didn't pay too much attention to it. It took the world's leading intelligence agencies a few days before they even realized that anything criminal had happened and by the time they did, the plane was long gone. It could have landed and refueled several times by then. Or, more likely, been camouflaged on the ground somewhere in Central Asia. The Israelis (of course) figured it out first which is why they boosted their air defense. After the information which is referenced in the Keith Ledgerwood blog became public, indicating that the plane could have snuck into Central Asia, governments started freaking out about 1) being embarrassed again by terrorists and 2) getting attacked by this plane and whatever is in it. So they decided to use the information that was already out there to spin this story, with Inmarsat's cooperation, that the plane had DEFINATELY FLOWN ALONG THE SOUTHERN CORRIDOR AND NOT GONE NORTH. It's a good temporary cover up because if they could get the media to buy into the story that it "definitely crashed into the Southern Indian Ocean," it would buy them a limitless amount of time to figure out what actually happened to plane. It was a bit of a public relations Hail Mary because it was dependent upon the international media taking Inmersat and the Malaysian government each at their word which, amazingly, they have. So now, in addition to finding the plane, all of the world's intelligence agencies are also trying to cover their own asses, so there are basically cover ups of cover ups of cover ups of cover ups going on in any country that could potentially be attacked by this plane. The key to this whole story is that INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES WERE NOT PREPARED FOR THE POSSIBILTY OF HIJACKED PLANES HIDING FROM RADAR BY FLYING BEHIND OTHER PLANES. So now, all bets are off."
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 2, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
Rory, today is 2 April. Go back a couple of pages where I explain the improbabilities of the 'formation flying' theory.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 2, 2014 - 02:55pm PT
The issue isn't where it could have flown, it's where it could have landed, been hidden and serviced for take-off again. And while Xingjian province, Kyrgyzstan, and Turkmenistan each have a facility capable of two out of the three, the idea an unscheduled 777 landing would have occurred at any of them and be kept hidden / secret is unbelievably naive and stupid. Again, jump on google maps and look at each airport in those countries / region.

The problems with any such theory are on the ground, not in the air...
overwatch

climber
Apr 2, 2014 - 03:17pm PT
Google maps...lof*#kingl
WBraun

climber
Apr 2, 2014 - 03:24pm PT
It's 100% confirmed and proven the plane is still somewhere on this planet ....

:-)
RoryKuykendall

Mountain climber
Glacier National Park, then maybe Death Valley??
Apr 2, 2014 - 07:20pm PT
This is an informative follow up to Keith Ledgerwood's original piece.

http://keithledgerwood.com/post/80154688823/questions-answers-follow-up-1-how-did-malaysian

It addresses the issue of whether or not a pilot could have stayed close enough to SQ68 to get into Central Asia. It's definable plausible, if unlikely. But this whole thing is unlikely. SOMETHING happened that no one was anticipating.

Healyje, I agree with your point. I don't necessarily believe my theory from my last point. I just think that it is plausible and worth thoroughly investigating.

This whole thing just stinks to me. The announcement last week that "we have to assume the plane crashed into the southern Indian Ocean," strikes me as obvious bullsh#t. I think that story is being pushed to buy time.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 3, 2014 - 01:50am PT
overwatch: Google maps...lof*#kingl
Yep, google maps in satellite mode. Have you even bothered to look at any those runways and facilities? Did you bother looking at the Paki runways? As an ex-military photographer with aerial photogrammetry training and satellite, U-2, and SR-71 processing / analysis experience I can assure you when you're looking at say, UCFO in Osh, Kyrgyzstan, you're getting more than enough resolution to determine whether one could hide a 777 there or not. Give it a whirl, it ain't magic, just basic common sense in using the tools available to you. I mean, really, click on the image below, zoom in, and tell me where are you gonna hide a 777?



Rory: This whole thing just stinks to me. The announcement last week that "we have to assume the plane crashed into the southern Indian Ocean," strikes me as obvious bullsh#t. I think that story is being pushed to buy time.

The Inmarsat technical crew and management team aren't idiots - they knew and know their analyses will be subject rigorous validation by qualified folks the world over - their stuff is straight up. Now, you or others may have the technical knowledge and skills to question or disagree with their conclusions, but their analyses are in no way 'bullshit'. Here's a fairly typical example of some of the more cogent third-party analyses going on:

http://tmfassociates.com/blog/2014/03/24/understanding-the-satellite-ping-conclusion/
stuv

climber
pas de montagnes
Apr 3, 2014 - 04:22am PT
Wait, do people think this thing is anywhere other than the bottom of the ocean?
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Apr 3, 2014 - 10:03am PT
Bottom of the ocean or a covert hangar in Something-a-stan.... it is all just a theory until they find wreckage.

JLP

Social climber
The internet
Apr 3, 2014 - 11:49am PT
it is all just a theory until they find wreckage
No, it's not theory, it's science and engineering. The plane is in the ocean.

These conspiracy theories would be more interesting if they weren't so retarded.
RoryKuykendall

Mountain climber
Telluride, CO
Apr 3, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
healyje,

Thanks for the photo and the links. I'm open minded about this whole thing and your imput is much appreciated.

One thing I've been trying to figure out is whether or not the Taliban controls any air strips and Afghanistan or Pakistan where the plane could have landed. I haven't been able to find a straight yes or no to this question. SIA68 flew right over souhtern Afghanistan, so if somebody was trying to steal a plane and land it in Afghanistan, SIA68 would have been a perfect flight to shadow.

It is a mystery to me why somebody have made all of these deliberate moves to evade radar and make the plane dissappear only to have it crash into the southern Indian Ocean. That seems as outlandish to me as any other theory. If somebody stole this plane only to crash it into the southern Indian Ocean, there has to be a reason. Are there plans to do this again? Is this a new tactic? These questions are important.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 3, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
Considering it could not get from its last know position (area) to anywhere other than the bottom of the ocean or a very big aircraft carrier that does not exist. I'm guessing most of it is in the bottom of the ocean.

This message brought to you by Capt. Obvious

And Inmarsat , one of the few reliable sources of info we have gotten publicly.
RoryKuykendall

Mountain climber
Telluride, CO
Apr 3, 2014 - 02:34pm PT
It's amazing to me that anyone would think that any of this is "obvious."
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 3, 2014 - 02:37pm PT
Inmarsat info make it's kinda obvious. Doesnt explain how or anything just where in a definate area and when.. and from that.. well it is in the ocean.

Big area but all of it ocean. Big enough that it's quite possible we will never find it. But still in the ocean.

The only thing making all this confusing is the rediculous 24/7 speculation game cable news is playing. Hard for most folks to separate speculation and the few hard facts.

The inmarsat data is solid.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 3, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
Rory, you asked why they bothered to take all the evasive maneuvers if all they intended was to deep six it. First, they might have suspected that if they merely departed from their planned route the Malaysian military might scramble fighters to come check them out as would happen here. Hey, it could have happened and it was a prudent move. To me the only question is why they didn't deep six it straight away. But that is fairly obvious - doing yourself in isn't the easiest thing to do. The Egypt Air 990 pilot that did the same thing waited a long while too.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Apr 3, 2014 - 02:56pm PT
"Malaysian military scramble fighters"

lol
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 3, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
8 FA-18's

30 SU-30's

10 Mig 29's

that's a decently modern inventory.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Apr 3, 2014 - 04:19pm PT
It's the idea that they would be able to scramble them in time to do anything that's amusing. It's hard enough to get them to answer you on the radio in that part of the world.

For whoever thinks a 777 is capable of doing "evasive maneuvers" against radar above 10000 feet, google "Electronic Warfare Fundamentals" and crack a beer.





Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Apr 3, 2014 - 08:37pm PT
Just a thought. If this was a hijacking, maybe it was just a trial run. A test of how militaries respond, or don't, when a plane goes dark in such a way. It seems to me a would be terrorist could learn a lot from this. Of course, as a consequence of this event there will, sometime in the future, be new regulations and technologies to prevent a plane from disappearing in such a way again, but for now.......
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 3, 2014 - 08:41pm PT
Braunini, the 'evasive maneuvers' merely consisted of dropping below the
primary radar coverage; not exactly an Immelman or a Split S required, hence
the sarcastic apostrophes. Do try to stay up to speed, even if it is only Mach .81.

So, all yous aviation experts, why did that bird run out of gas so soon?
WBraun

climber
Apr 3, 2014 - 08:42pm PT
The plane didn't disappear.

Only the mainstream media and us stupid sheep see a "disappear".

The intelligence rascals know everything about this whole thing.

They're keeping us stupid sheep in the dark on purpose.

We have no right to know the nefarious activities of our fuked up masters today.

Were only here now to obey and kiss their ring ......
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Apr 3, 2014 - 08:48pm PT
.83 ;)
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 3, 2014 - 09:02pm PT
7 or 8 hours into a 5 hour flight doesn't seem that soon to run out of gas to me. Even with the slight detour.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Apr 3, 2014 - 09:10pm PT
If a plane disappeared like this once a week I would still fly all the time.
RoryKuykendall

Mountain climber
Telluride, CO
Apr 3, 2014 - 11:28pm PT
This is the thing: if that was plane was, in fact, commandeered by persons with malicious intentions, then locating it and confirming its fate would absolutely be THE top priority for all of the world's anti-terrorism and intelligence agencies.

Yet, according to the latest report from the mainstream media, "A total of 14 aircraft and nine ships will scan the area" tomorrow to search for the lost plane. That's it, huh? Fourteen ships and nine planes? That's all the world and it's $1.7 Trillion annual military budget can muster to search for a Boeing 777 that was commandeered in mid flight in what investigators are openly acknowledging was a criminal act? Fourteen ships and nine planes to search the entire southern Indian Ocean?

That seems a little underwhelming for an event of this magnitude.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 28, 2014 - 10:58pm PT
How many more millions are gonna be pissed down this rabbit hole?
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 28, 2014 - 11:36pm PT
Hey, it's a great excuse to run multi-national military exercises in a region that otherwise sees little activity except for pirates and circumnavigating yachtistas

gotta close down all the last of the wilderness areas...
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