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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 28, 2010 - 01:43pm PT
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Time passes. Anyone else survive a teenaged life influenced by "Catcher In The Rye?"
By God, I didn't just read Holden Caulfield, I lived him. Still am, in fact.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jan 28, 2010 - 01:57pm PT
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Raise high the roofbeam, Carpenter.
and
"Don't leave your crummy toenails all over the floor."
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Jan 28, 2010 - 02:09pm PT
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"By God, I didn't just read Holden Caulfield, I lived him. Still am, in fact."
really? you shirk responsiblity? consider every man who offers a gesture of affection a homosexual? seek advice from 9-year-olds? express scorn for "perverts" as you peer into other people's hotel room windows? blame all of your problems on others?
i like the book, but is there anyone else out there who despises holden caulfield? i just can't believe salinger intended holden to be anybody's role model
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 28, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
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Saddened by loss of a literary icon - although to be honest, I never 'got' Catcher in the Rye. Various friends thought/think it was really good, I tried to read it, but that's about it.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 28, 2010 - 03:09pm PT
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but is there anyone else out there who despises holden caulfield?
oh, of course. what's not to despise about a confused fifteen year old kid?
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Jan 28, 2010 - 03:30pm PT
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Yeah I just read about that Bob...He was required reading in many classes for me!!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jan 28, 2010 - 03:30pm PT
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oh, of course. what's not to despise about a confused fifteen year old kid?
BVB, you're not referring to Bookworm are you? Come on, Bookie's not that bad.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 28, 2010 - 04:17pm PT
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it's interesting that 59 years after first being published, catcher still sells 250,000 copies a year.
talk about staying power.
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fosburg
climber
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Jan 28, 2010 - 04:35pm PT
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"If there is an amateur reader still left in the world-or anybody who just reads and runs-I ask him or her, with untellable affection and gratitude, to split the dedication of his book four ways with my wife and children." Raise High the Roof Beam, Carpenter
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Jan 28, 2010 - 04:46pm PT
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Silly me, I thought Salinger died years ago. My bad.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Jan 28, 2010 - 05:48pm PT
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There was an NPR interview not too recently with Greg Herriges who managed to meet Salinger in the 70s. It was humorous listening the story. You can read about in 10 minutes with Salinger.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Jan 28, 2010 - 07:49pm PT
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'worm,
Are they still allowing you to teach high school English?
Who said Holden's a role model? A lot of teens (and apparently some adults) can relate to the character.
Anyone who can't feel some empathy for the character should be writing a right-wing blog, not teaching teens.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jan 28, 2010 - 07:57pm PT
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I don't often agree with bookie, but in this case I'm mostly with him. I find Caulfield kind of a whiny brat, and the writing less than enthralling.
As far as teen characters of major literary works, I'd take Huck Finn any day.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jan 28, 2010 - 08:31pm PT
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"...Silly me, I thought Salinger died years ago. My bad..."
That was Pierre.
Curt
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Fletcher
Trad climber
The beckoning silence
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Jan 28, 2010 - 09:45pm PT
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Holden Caulfield... the port-Stonemaster? Arrogant punk with and attitude.
Salinger captured eloquently the contemporary teen spirit, all the messy good and bad elements. I certainly identified with Holden and I was a pretty straight arrow in high school.... well one who was perceived that way... that rep allowed me to get away with a lot of stuff other kids never could have!
eric
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oldtopangalizard
Social climber
ca
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Jan 28, 2010 - 09:56pm PT
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Bizarre coincidence. Early this morning I finished reading The Catcher In The Rye for the first time. I then went out for a great hike in Marin. Got back to my truck at 10 AM and the first thing on the radio is Salinger's passing.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Jan 28, 2010 - 10:14pm PT
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Always liked Franny & Zooey and Raise Hight the roofbeams best.
The Onion pretty well nailed it:
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/bunch_of_phonies_mourn_j_d
CORNISH, NH—In this big dramatic production that didn't do anyone any good (and was pretty embarrassing, really, if you think about it), thousands upon thousands of phonies across the country mourned the death of author J.D. Salinger, who was 91 years old for crying out loud. "He had a real impact on the literary world and on millions of readers," said hot-shot English professor David Clarke, who is just like the rest of them, and even works at one of those crumby schools that rich people send their kids to so they don't have to look at them for four years. "There will never be another voice like his." Which is exactly the lousy kind of goddamn thing that people say, because really it could mean lots of things, or nothing at all even, and it's just a perfect example of why you should never tell anybody anything.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Jan 28, 2010 - 11:17pm PT
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Salinger’s great Catcher in the Rye was a picaresque work. And so, stood in the long tradition or genre of these rough shifty works of alienation and unfocused fury of unbelonging youth. There are tons of them. We start with Petronius even and move forward. I loved JD’s novella and read it when roughly the same age as Holden. Now it turns out that JD was actually largely Holden, at least of a sort. An interesting conclusion to the very long 59 year story for the work.
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habitat
climber
grass pass
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:03am PT
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Ha ha!
Thanks for posting that Cintune...almost as good as the real thing!
I love Catcher In The Rye, have read it a few times. Really relate to it. Maybe it's the sarcasm, or just the flow of it, but it's one of my favorite books. Really. Not that anyone cares. Why should they?
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Fletcher
Trad climber
The beckoning silence
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:09am PT
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For y'all that thought he was already dead, I suspect you are thinking of Pierre Salinger, Kennedy's and Johnson's press secretary. He died in 2004.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Salinger
Eric
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 29, 2010 - 03:16am PT
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tough style for me, but still resonated. didn't read it til I was in my 30s too.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Jan 29, 2010 - 10:14am PT
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"Who said Holden's a role model? A lot of teens (and apparently some adults) can relate to the character."
a post has been deleted:
"By God, I didn't just read Holden Caulfield, I lived him. Still am, in fact."
so, here is somebody, presumably an adult, declaring holden as a role model...i guess whoever posted this thought better of it later
"Anyone who can't feel some empathy for the character should be writing a right-wing blog, not teaching teens."
i can feel "some empathy" for holden but that doesn't mean i should ignore his many faults...and the main thing i emphasize with my students is to read closely and judge objectively...by doing so, my students can see holden's antipathy to his classmates is mostly unjustified...he's as sex-crazed as any teenager, which makes his indignation against "perverts" nothing but self-righteousness (yep, holden is a "phony")...his sister is proof enough that he comes from a stable home with good parents...his teacher (i forget his name) shows that holden does have adults willing to help him and, at least, lend a sympathetic ear
i don't believe, through twenty years of working with them, that holden represents the typical teenager
yes, i'll take huck over holden any day, but when i do teach the novel, i point out huck's racism (even at the end of the book)...once i have my students convinced (through textual evidence) shylock is a bloodthirsty jew, i take them through the play, AGAIN, and show them how the text reveals shylock is simply a victim of vicious anti-semitism
that's called critical reading, but i suppose wanda prefers his kids to be indoctrinated rather than taught to think for themselves
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 10:29am PT
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a post has been deleted:
"By God, I didn't just read Holden Caulfield, I lived him. Still am, in fact."
dude, wtf are you talking about? first post in the thread.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 12:25pm PT
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It's hard to see unless you lived it
very true. but even so, beyond the situational particulars of the fictional setting and background, much in catcher must strike a chord for many. the book has sold 65 million copies.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:38pm PT
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In her memoir, Margaret Salinger describes the detailed filing system her father had for his unpublished manuscripts: "A red mark meant, if I die before I finish my work, publish this 'as is,' blue meant publish but edit first, and so on."
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:45pm PT
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I guess the whole prep school thing is what makes Holden not so sympathetic a character for me. Boo hoo. All adults don't cater to my every whim. And my Topsiders don't match my BMW.
At least when Cobain sings about alienation, it rings a little more true as he came from a depressing little logging town.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 12:53pm PT
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ah, but holden caulfield is not an actual person. he's a character in a book by salinger. the character never existed, he merely emerged wholesale from the author's mind.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Jan 29, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
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"ah, but holden caulfield is not an actual person. he's a character in a book by salinger. the character never existed, he merely emerged wholesale from the author's mind."
so...you "live" a fictional character?
salinger's book may be legitimately groundbreaking (but it's nowhere near as important as Huck Finn), and his protagonist might be sympathetic, but that doesn't mean he's necessarily likable...and it doesn't mean that i shouldn't point out his faults or, worse, encourage my students to admire/emulate him
and he DOES shirk responsibility, both his academics and his duties as manager for the fencing team (not to mention older sibling to Phoebe)
a lot of kids "don't know where they fit in" but most don't feel contempt for others who do or go peeping in people's hotel room windows
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 01:17pm PT
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so...you "live" a fictional character?
no, it's the other was around. when i read catcher (i was in my 20's) i recognized parts of myself in the character. more like the character "lived" me.
this is also the difference between a role model (your words) and a literary character one feels a kinship to. a role model demonstrates characteristics that one first notes, and then seeks to emulate. relating to a character is very different, and involves recognizing events or elements in that character you have already experienced -- you have that "aha" moment where you say to yourself "exactly...i've been there."
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jan 29, 2010 - 01:33pm PT
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So Pate, you're trying to tell me that Holden legitimately has lots of things to complain about?
That he doesn't sound whiny?
Yes, a fair number of teens go thru periods where they feel alienated for one reason or another. They dress in dark clothes and listen to depressing music. I listened to the Cure and Bauhaus.
And maybe Catcher in the Rye is a reasonably good portrait of that period.
But many of us grow up to realize that things were really not that bad. It's one thing to want to escape a truly bad environment. Or to want to have a little adventure. But adults aren't all phonies.
Obviously I'm in the minority here in not thinking it's a classic. As you and BVB have pointed out, it's sold tons of copies and is regularly required reading in English classes.
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