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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 10, 2007 - 03:43pm PT
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Also known as....
CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS (PART XIV)!!!!
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/51624/
That is indeed an interesting story. I'm definitely going to wait for confirmation but it isn't suprising. Benchmarks seem to be the news of the day, and this could very well be why Bush has changed his tune on them. If a binding resolution passes the Iraqi parliament and Bush isnt' already on board he'll lose a lot of face. He needs to say "I'm already doing that" if something like that goes through.
Anyone find other reports that this actually happened?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 10, 2007 - 03:49pm PT
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Cross-post from Fatty's thread. I wrote;
Doug, that's an interesting article. I have a feeling our media just hasn't caught the story yet. I'd be surprised if the don't report on it.
I just don't really like the 'occupation' term. It doesn't really fit. If their government can authorize bills of that nature, is it really an occupation? It seems disengenous to me.
If the bill does pass, however, I'd say that it's a good thing. That'd force their own military to stand up more and confront the violence...and it'd get our boys THE HELL OUTTA THERE!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2007 - 03:53pm PT
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As far as the occupation thing is concerned, I think the definition probably rests on whether or not we comply. A foreign army that essentially controls (however poorly) the physical aspects of a country and attempts to manipulate the politics and policy of the government...what do you call that other than an occupying force?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 10, 2007 - 03:58pm PT
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Manipulating policy? The Iraqis just introduced the bill to get us to leave. In the beginning it was an occupation, I'll give you that. I'm still searching for an appropriate term for now, though. Howz about 'police action'. Or 'security detail'. Or, more bluntly, 'BULLSEYE'.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2007 - 04:01pm PT
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Yes, we have been trying to influence the formation and selection of the gov't since the very beginning. We are occupying and have been trying, though clearly unsuccessfully, to create a government friendly and sympathetic to our goals.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 10, 2007 - 04:06pm PT
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Whatever you say. We could disagree on this forever.
Oh, and all praise Patty 'ol boy!
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John Moosie
climber
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May 10, 2007 - 08:42pm PT
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Hahahahaha
Fatty. That is like saying that some Dems didn't vote when the rebublicans controled everything and therefore the vote is no good. They needed more then 138 votes to secure a majority and they got 144. End story.
You said you would abide by this. So are you?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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May 11, 2007 - 10:47am PT
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Hey, I am so honored to finally have an appreciation thread, but lads, it's Paddy not Patty (not after my sex operation). ;-)
Jeff, a bit of change of plans, I won't be moving back home until March or April of next year, perhaps a bit sooner. But have to definitely be back by the start of May.
We'll meet up in Creektown for a pint or coffee.
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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May 11, 2007 - 11:43am PT
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"My only question is, during the voting did Sadr's members vote?They withdrew from the Govt. four weeks ago. Did the Sunnis vote?"
Yup.
Just read an article in the RGJ that states Sadr's block drafted the proposal and the Sunis voted as well.
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mooch
Big Wall climber
The Immaculate Conception
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May 11, 2007 - 02:04pm PT
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Damn, my bad....I thought this was the Patrick Swayze Appreciation Thread :P
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John Moosie
climber
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May 11, 2007 - 02:39pm PT
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Fatty,
You really take the cake. First you say the vote is no good because some people didn't vote. Then you say the vote is no good because it was led by the ones you thought didn't vote and is therefore biased. Problem is, it got a majority.
So now you are stuck. You either go against your word and I lose all respect for you or you abide by your word and stop pushing for the war. Its time for the troops to come home. Iraq = Vietnam. The majority of the people don't want us there. We are doing no good.
HERE ARE YOUR WORDS
"Moosie,
I would absolutely respect their vote on us "staying", of course their elected leader has stated " it would be a disaster for the US to leave". The country may have to be split into three states.
Jody's evil twin."
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=374512&msg=375531#msg375531
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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May 11, 2007 - 02:48pm PT
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Fatty,
So democracy is only good whan it goes by your rules?
Youy are turly one f*#ked-up individual.
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John Moosie
climber
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May 11, 2007 - 03:22pm PT
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So at least you admit that your word is no good.
I wonder if you were one of those who called John Kerry a flip flopper? Yes I think you were. I am losing a lot of respect for you Fatty. Good night.......
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Topic Author's Reply - May 11, 2007 - 05:17pm PT
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"My only question is, during the voting did Sadr's members vote?"
Fatty from what I understand from this morning's news it is the Sadrists that actually sponsored and pushed the resolution, which won by a narrow majority. Of course Maliki and the national security advisor quickly condemned the resolution and called it a really bad idea.
I think this is more telling about who will actually come out on top when (not if) we pull out. Maliki and his boys are sweating bullets. Sadr's people seem pretty confident they can win power if Maliki doesn't have the US armed forces covering his back. Seems to me that if things continue how they are we will be hearing about President Al Sadr soon enough.
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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May 11, 2007 - 05:55pm PT
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"Of course Maliki and the national security advisor quickly condemned the resolution and called it a really bad idea. "
Right out of "W"'s playbook.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 11, 2007 - 06:03pm PT
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Having Sadr's boys running the show would essentially be the re-birth of Persia, essentially. I don't think that's such a good idea. Kurds and Sunni's would be soooooo screwed.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Topic Author's Reply - May 11, 2007 - 06:37pm PT
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Thus possibly provoking a wider conflict between shiite and sunni nations in the Middle East. I don't think the Dubya boys are wrong in fearing the outcomes of this situation. I just don't think they have what it takes to prevent it, and what we are trying now just isn't working.
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UncleDoug
Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
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May 11, 2007 - 06:53pm PT
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"Of course Israel might just solve the problem by taking out the funding source due to nuclear concerns."
It's going to suck to live in Israel.
Think it is rough going now.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Topic Author's Reply - May 11, 2007 - 07:23pm PT
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Yeah Fatty only that nobody has the patience or desire for that kind of escalation. It will take another 9/11 type event to rally people for it. Bush pissed it all away years ago and there is no faith or trust left in the Republican party to make good decisions on this issue. It's not an accident that McCain is limping.
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