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Old5Ten
Trad climber
Berkeley and Sunny Slopes, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 11, 2017 - 07:54pm PT
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has anybody used these for granite? 2 lbs lighter than my 36V bosch and 50% more impact force. any thoughts?
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 11, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
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I have a lot of Milwaukee impacts.
The impacts I have are not for rock climbing bolting but for installing fasteners.
I got my first Milwaukee impact and Milwaukee drill which are both the "Fuel" versions "Brushless motors" last year.
They have way more power and are lighter for the same battery voltage.
The batteries seem to last much longer than the brushed versions I have.
You'll just have to buy one or get a demo to actually see how well it works.
Maybe at a Grangers store outlet?
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 11, 2017 - 08:56pm PT
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The cons with the brushless motors is to watch out for dust and water getting into the motors.
There's a lot of electronics in these "Brushless Fuel" versions.
They don't stall like a brushed motor, they cut out completely electronically when the motor exceeds its rating while running.
I know that some of the drywall guys are having problems with drywall dust destroying the motors.
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Oso Flaco
Gym climber
Atascadero, CA
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Jan 11, 2017 - 10:55pm PT
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I have the Milwaukee 18V Fuel rotohammer and I love it. Yes, the specs show that it has more power than any other drill including the big Bosch and Hilti ones...at least it did when I purchased it a couple years ago. Look at the impact energy and multiply that by the impacts per minute to get a useful metric for comparing drills (impact energy per minute). I've used it in hard stones including granite, dacite, and some kind of very hard schist (I think) and it performs well without any sign of straining. Before buying it I emailed Milwaukee to ask them the difference between the 18 volt and 28 volt drills. I said, "which one drills holes faster?" and they replied that they perform the same. I believe the 28V is just an older model of the same power and drill-bit size rating. My friend has the 28V model and it's just heavier and a bit more bulky, but drills holes great. I think their objective was to move the 28V drill's power into the 18V battery platform to encourage more sales of the drill since, when compatible with the 18V batteries, with which Milwaukee makes a larger array of tools, you can just buy the drill if you already have the 18V batteries. And the batteries are expensive so it's cheaper to not also have to have 28V batteries. You can maintain the same power even with decreasing voltage by increasing the amperage (P=IV). My favorite thing about the drill compared to others I've used is the shock absorbing handle. If you don't over-apply force and push the drill in too hard, you hit this sweet spot where the drill has this floating sensation and literally just eats the rock; what they call just letting the tool do the work. Mwaaahh haaa haaa haaaaa
I recorded some times to drill holes in dacite, which is a bit softer than granite, but still hard rock.
8 seconds to drill a 3/8" x 2 5/8" hole (that's 0.736 cm3/s of rock removed) using a Bosch Xtreme bit
17 seconds to drill a 12.25 mm x 85 mm hole (approx. 1/2" by 3 1/3" hole) (that's 0.589 cm3/s of rock removed) using a Fixe 12mm bit
I've even used it to drill 5/8" diameter by 8" deep holes in hard stone (schist?) and it has plenty of power to finish the hole and not get the bit stuck.
The bit you use can also make a big difference in performance. I've noticed that the Bosch Xtreme bits don't wear out as fast since their head has a different sort of sculpted design made entirely out of carbide rather than the standard piece of carbide affixed into the shaft at the head. The Bosch Xtreme aren't much more expensive and are worth the little extra cost in my opinion.
The Hilti TE-CX bits that have the gnarly crossed head design do drill noticeably faster, but they cost more than I'm willing to pay.
I would say go with the Milwaukee drill if you plan to do mostly rap bolting. If wanting a power drill for lead bolting, you might consider the lightweight Bosch model 11536C (36 volt 3/4" max bit). This drill now also has the shock absorber, which is nice, and my friend has one and has used it in dacite and sandstone conglomerate and loves it.
One other thing to consider is whether you will be using it for construction or tasks other than climbing. The Milwaukee can use up to a 1 1/8" diameter bit while the lightweight Bosch takes up to 3/4".
I've also used Dewalt rotohammers for granite and dacite bolting and I have to say they are not the tools you want to be using, but if you already have the batteries and charger for a certain company you can get away cheaper than investing in a new brand of tool system (drill, battery, & charger minimum).
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Jan 11, 2017 - 11:25pm PT
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Go Hilti, stay Hilti.
Hundreds of holes, twenty five years old.
Like butter.
Even in pillow Basalt. Which makes Granite seem....like butter.
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Dickly
Social climber
KY
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Jan 12, 2017 - 06:05am PT
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hell, even the 100 dollar Ryobi rotary hammer works well in basalt. just buy what you want.
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Caveman
climber
Cumberland Plateau
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Jan 12, 2017 - 09:30am PT
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M18.....30,000 bpm. M28.....28,800 bpm. Neither are true rotary hammer drill. Be glad to show/race you with my Hilti te6a.
edit to add: Just looked at Milwaukee site. Looks like a version of the M18 is a rotary hammer with 3000 bpm. Hammer drills and rotary hammer drills used to be discerned by blows per minute (bpm).
DISREGARD ABOVE...........looks like a decent drill.
I've got a Hilti te6a modified to run off a 10 cell lipoly on a 8ft tether. Oh and yeah Hilti all the way. My little rig will pull you off the line and for the distance! If there were a better one I would surely like to see it.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Jan 12, 2017 - 03:55pm PT
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ahhh the forbidden subject... excellent!
Bosch Bulldog smoother, cuts fast, wears longer, but Hilti bits, especially in granite.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jan 12, 2017 - 05:43pm PT
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There are 2 different relevant M18 Fuel SDS Plus brushless rotary hammers.
You need to know the model number.
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/system/m18-fuel?product+types=rotary+and+demolition+hammers
https://www.protoolreviews.com/trades/concrete/milwaukee-m18-fuel-sds-plus-rotary-hammers/11939/
1 1/8 inch, 2715 3.3 ft-lbs, 7.7 lbs
1 inch, 2712, 1.7 ft-lbs, 7 lbs bare tool
if you're really overconcerned about no. of holes and enjoy holding more weight in your hand, you can buy a 9AH or 6AH battery instead of 4 or 5AH.
not counting the Fuel M12 or the inexpensive new Ryobi 18V
which are ok for being the very Lightest.
The old non-Fuel M18 units were not brushless
7/8inch, model 2605, 5.7 lbs without battery, claims 1.8 ft-lbs, but hard to believe.
5/8 inch, model 2612, 5 lbs without batt, 1.0 ft-lbs.
Bosch 18V unit, lighter than the 36V. Model RHH181
3/4 inch, 1.25 ft lbs, 4.6 lbs, https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/bos
chtools-ocs/sds-plus-hammers-rhh181-135882-p/
http://toolguyd.com/bosch-rhh181-18v-brushless-rotary-hammer/
https://www.mountainproject.com/v/drill-review-bosh-18v-rhh-181/112314789
There are lots of good enough rotary hammers now.
http://toolguyd.com/?s=rotary+hammer
You might just want to pick a brand that has the same batteries you can use in all their other tools.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Jan 12, 2017 - 05:52pm PT
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sure the te10 and the bulldog are nice, but.....
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Jan 12, 2017 - 06:20pm PT
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I'll stick with the Bosch 36v 6 pounder. Save Milwaukie for construction. You do not need a 1 1/8" drill junk and heavy. again good for ^
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Old5Ten
Trad climber
Berkeley and Sunny Slopes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2017 - 02:12pm PT
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thanks for all the replies and discussion. oso, many thanks for the actual performance review and data. couchmaster, math only works when the base assumptions are correct. my bosch weighs 9.6lbs + i'm using a heavier battery than i would for the milwaukee. you linked the milwaukee 'kit' (inclusive battery) not the 'bare' tool (which milwaukee lists at 7.7lbs for the 28v).
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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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Jan 14, 2017 - 02:50pm PT
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yeah, another make sure you don't get the milwaukee brushless drills wet.
have to add this because it was a real pisser given the price i paid when as far as i can tell an impact drill was set in the snow about two months outside of the one year warranty... this resulted in a shitty expensive paperweight as milwaukee wouldn't help given it was water damaged... not sure what to think as i'd already gone whole hog for a good chunk of the fuel lineup [skil and recip saws and impact and hammer drills]
while i haven't made up my mind yet as everything else has been excellent, drills that can't handle a tiny bit of moisture [it was by no means a dunking] given the price point they are at, may prove to be a problem for me in the long run.
or at least as long as we keep building houses outside... hahaha.
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