Twisted rope syndrome

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Onewhowalksonrocks

Mountain climber
portland, Maine
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 13, 2012 - 02:29pm PT
I know all of us has rap a rope or belayed and had to deal with the twisting of the rope. By rapping a rope using a carabiner brake system will re leave the twist for a awhile. On a rope I bought a year ago still twist.

I would like to know how you fix this problem or can it be fixed?

When I coil the rope after climbing I work the twist out and I have hung a rope over night before and it has helped. But not with this rope.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 13, 2012 - 02:32pm PT
How disappointing - I thought this thread was gonna be about Locker or Rottingjohnny.
toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Nov 13, 2012 - 02:39pm PT
^^^^^^^


indeed, that rope has an incurable, intractable syndrome, and should not be climbed on


send it to me for safe disposal


c/o The Pit, Joshua Tree, CA



.
Inner City

Trad climber
East Bay
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:01pm PT
Dangle the rope from a high place where it can hang free...kinks will vanish like the winter sun..
Master of Kludge

Trad climber
Grizzly Gulch, WY
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:11pm PT
The twists arise from not coiling them correctly. You maybe putting in a half twist every other looping.

You notice the kinks etc. because the rappel tends to straighten rope by pushing the seemingly internal hidden twist down the rope to its end. If you rappelled on a single free end that did not touch the ground and was free to you would get almost no twists but the rope would spin.

Yes, you can get rid of these kinks by suspending rope.

labrat

Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:56pm PT
Some ropes seem to be incurable. Wear it out and buy another model / brand.
Roxy

Trad climber
CA Central Coast
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:05pm PT
rapping on twisted ropes!?!??!


dude, you're so on borrowed time ; )
wallyvirginia

Trad climber
Stockholm, Sweden
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:06pm PT
I've had ropes that constantly twisted and kinked, and others that almost never did.. Some ropes are just cursed it seems. I read somewhere on Beals website that you have to uncoil a new rope in a special manner, otherwise it will give you trouble. Don't know much about that.

My current Beal rope never kinks, my previous kinked all the time (I gave it away) same brand, same model.
squishy

Mountain climber
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:48pm PT
yer gonna die or something...
fat-n-sassy

Social climber
San Francity, CA
Nov 13, 2012 - 05:19pm PT
kink?

did you say kink?
Master of Kludge

Trad climber
Grizzly Gulch, WY
Nov 13, 2012 - 06:06pm PT
Here is a description of how to find out whether you put twists in your rope from coiling:

Suspend the rope from a cliff that is a little higher that the rope is long for several days in the warm sunlight. After that duration anchor the bottom end tight and then with you favorite marking pen rap down alongside the rope drawing a line on your rope that always faces outward and is on the outermost region from the cliff of that round curvature.

After using the rope for a month and coiling it every day[no rappelling during this interval] you can anchor it again at top of the cliff and then pitch the other end of it off the same cliff and have someone catch the bottom end and take it to the wall and holding it while you come down. Next rappell along the rope and check if the magic marker line rotates. I suspect you will have some rotations in it.
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Nov 13, 2012 - 06:09pm PT
Flake the rope several times.
Master of Kludge

Trad climber
Grizzly Gulch, WY
Nov 13, 2012 - 06:17pm PT
Flake the rope
?

Tell us what that means.

To get twist out of the rope you have to twist one end with respect to the other end an amount equal to the number of rotation that exist in it. No topological shortcuts here!

Oh please tell me how accurate flaking does this.
Master of Kludge

Trad climber
Grizzly Gulch, WY
Nov 13, 2012 - 06:25pm PT
The sure way to keep from adding any twists to a rope while coiling is to coil it in a figure "8" . Doing this puts a half twist in one way and on other half of the "8" puts a twist the other way. And this adds to zero rotation.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Nov 13, 2012 - 07:24pm PT
Butterfly coil, no twists
crasic

climber
Nov 13, 2012 - 07:38pm PT
One little trick from wrapping wires and from knot theory.

If you coil both ends together, any twists you put in by accident are effectivelly null. One end will twist the opposite of the other and the total twist is 0.

Why I always butterfly coil both ends at once, have to do a little extra work flaking the rope before climbing, but NO TWISTS.
Master of Kludge

Trad climber
Grizzly Gulch, WY
Nov 13, 2012 - 08:26pm PT
crasic,

If you coil both ends together, any twists you put in by accident are effectively null. One end will twist the opposite of the other and the total twist is 0.

Climbing ropes exhibit very little rotational stiffness or shear if you will and they do not transmit rotation like plastic pex tubing does. Grab your rope and twist one end; does the other end twist? NO, those turns are now in the rope memory and will not come out until you twist them out. The butterfly method seemingly does not add twists and neither does it remove them. What you start out with rotations in the rope they will be there unnoticed until some device pushes them together. Rope is not WIRE.
crasic

climber
Nov 13, 2012 - 08:29pm PT
The twists put in when coiling both ends, even if they stay in the rope, are in opposite directions, when you rap or use a device to push to twists down they will cancel out at the end of the rope.

Sometimes you still encounter some twists in the middle, but I haven't ever had a rats nest at the end from twists that other people seem to have
Master of Kludge

Trad climber
Grizzly Gulch, WY
Nov 13, 2012 - 08:32pm PT
crasic,

NO! If there is an actual twist in the rope the net rotation will be greater than zero. Cancellation of this doesn't happen without twisting one end with respect to the other end.
mooser

Trad climber
seattle
Nov 13, 2012 - 08:54pm PT
Put a knot in the end of each length, but don't tie them together.
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