About the Author thekidcormier is a light weight trad climber wannabe from squamish,b.c, who does alot of aid climbing because he gets scared above his gear.
He's been known for calling his mommy from hard routes then bailing.
I'm heading up the wall in the morning with kieran and nate(a.k.a. Browniephoto and thesoloclimber)!!
Our plan is to climb Zorros Last Ride(V 5.8) A3+) into Lost at Sea(III 5.8 A3+). As far as we know Lost at Sea has only had 1 repeat attempt and that was by me and fishboy.
Oh sh#t. The pre spray. Last time there was too much prespray, someone in our party fell 60 feet. Thanks Luke!
On the upside, maple syrup has gone down in price.
Luke, we'll try to get some photos of you from the road on Friday afternoon, and Sunday if you're still there and the p'terodactyls haven't eaten you. The afternoon lighting at this time of year can be quite nice.
The kid says he will tell the epic tale when he gets 100 comments.. This thing has 1200 views so that shouldn't be too hard! Post up for an epic people!!
Nov 9, 2012 - 10:38am PT
The kid says he will tell the epic tale when he gets 100 comments.. This thing has 1200 views so that shouldn't be too hard! Post up for an epic people!!
Very impressive, Kid. A picture tells a thousand words and the smiles tell a thousand more. No words are needed. Great Trip Report. Great climb. I had a feeling you were going to do this. Congratulations. And to Brownie: Very, very clever...
As long as they are alive and uninjured the story of the last two pitches cannot be too bad.
What I see is a great trip report on a fantastic climb, two climbers working hard over 6 days for this ascent, and having a great time in the process.
I wouldn't worry about the vicarious armchair theorists passing judgement on anything that may have happened on the last two pitches (I've no idea what could have taken place). Great trip report, should be an inspiration to others who may be considering the Muir Wall; probably a good alternative to the crowding on the Nose, Salathe, 3D.
A couple of well known Squamish / BC climbers once had a total epic on the last pitches of the Shield in full wet snow conditions. Survival mode can result in damn near anything. Survival is preferred.
There were some extremely serious of life threatening events that unfolded in the end both to his partner and the rescue personal that were needed due to Luke's inexperience.
The team did well on the climb in some bad heat that turned into bad cold in the end.... typical yosemite weather!! Thanks for posting the trip report.
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Date: October 23, 2012
High Angle Rescue of Stranded Climber in Snow Storm Successful
Yosemite National Park Rangers and Search and Rescue Personnel completed a high angle, high risk rescue on El Capitan, in Yosemite Valley, on Monday, October 22, 2012, in which a stranded Canadian climber was at risk for hypothermia. The summit of El Capitan, 7,569 feet above sea level, is the largest granite monolith in the world. This Yosemite icon attracts rock climbers from across the globe.
Two rock climbers began ascending a climbing route, known as the Muir Wall, on El Capitan on Monday, October 14, 2012. The party was due to reach the top of the climb on Sunday night, October 21, just before a large storm, with several inches of snow, was predicted. The lead climber, a 24-year old male from Ontario, Canada, reached the summit just before midnight on Sunday night. The second climber, a 40-year old male from British Columbia, Canada, was forced to spend the night approximately 230 feet below the summit due to impending bad weather and a stuck climbing rope.
At approximately 2:00 a.m. on Monday, October 22, the 40-year old climber attempted to deploy a rainfly over his portaledge (a hanging tent system designed for rock climbers to spend the night on a rock wall) to provide shelter from the rain/snow. However, during his attempt he slipped out of his portaledge and fell approximately 15 feet down the face of the rock. He was able to ascend his rope and secure himself back to the portaledge, but was unable to properly erect the rainfly. During the night, the area received approximately four to six inches of snow with nighttime temperatures in the mid-twenties.
Yosemite Park Rangers were notified of the possible hypothermic climber midday on Monday, October 22. Due to unfavorable weather, the park could not secure a helicopter to assist in the rescue and instead deployed ground teams to respond. Park Rangers Aaron Smith and Ben Doyle, and Search and Rescue Crew Member Matt Othmer immediately hiked to the summit of El Capitan to rescue the climber. Snow, wind, and ice slowed rescue attempts and personnel reached the summit at approximately 4:00 p.m. The team rigged anchors and immediately began lowering Park Ranger Smith approximately 230 feet to the climber. Upon arrival, Smith found the climber to be suffering from exhaustion and mild hypothermia. Smith attached ropes to the climber, and then ascended the ropes back to the summit. Using a mechanical advantage system of pulleys, the team was then able to hoist the climber to the summit.
After warming the climber, the team descended back to Yosemite Valley via hiking and rappelling, and reached the Valley floor at approximately 10:00 p.m.
The climber was transported to a local hospital and is in good condition.
Oh & where in the hell did u guys leave Relic? He seems to have vanished??
Naw naw he's just lurking I guess.. Texted me the other day..
Slodog- I want to apologize for anything I've said that was out of line. I realize that climbing is a partner sport and you need to consider what is best for the team, and certainly understand how you felt left behind.
The summit of El Capitan, 7,569 feet above sea level, is the largest granite monolith in the world.
OMG - will this idiocy ever go away? And this from NPS?
what? Mt Dickey doesn't rate? How about Makalu? Denali? Great Cathedral, Trango....
I wonder if this stupid statement has made it into Wikipedia or Britannica? or is it just the some old recycled brochure from NPS for the past 100 years?
Thats almost as bad as claiming squamish as the outdoor recreation capital of canada
"I've been beating myself up all day about whether I did the right thing leaving him there to fend for himself. Although we had all the equipment to theoretically survive a storm, it was certainly not on my list of super cool things to do."
First of all this Trip Report, although mainly a photo essay, is about a MY experience on the wall, MY decisions, and MY report card. So inevitable criticism should be directed towards ME and MY mistakes...
Upon reaching the top of the climb I was extremely scared, impatient and frustrated. I ran into some technical difficulties, the kind of technical difficulties that real climbers find solutions to and overcome.
Instead of figuring out a way to solve said problems, I took the cowardly way out and fled the scene. Abandoning my partner and our kit. Invalidating the Ascent completely.
That's ok Luke, whats done is done. Don't let the ballbisters get to you. Its impossible for you or anyone else to look back & make a difference in what actually happened.
Maybe you should move on y'know, start sport climbing or lo ball bouldering exclusively. Usually the lighter you are, the better you are at it, so you might be a natural- trust me there is still lots of aid involved & you could do it in the snow or set up your portaledge at pet wall in the rain if u really need some unnecessary suffering.. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Chalk it up to Experience & move on, Kid. Seriously.
Dude, you got to live ON El Cap for a while. I imagine we'll see you there again.
There it is. Glorious. And nobody's dead. Bonus.
For What It's Worth, Luke has been my mainly regular climbing partner for this past year. It was through him that I had my first wall experience, where he demonstrated his aptitude for aiding (at least compared to myself and our other friend) and spending another ~two days with him on the wall last weekend, he showed me again how far he has come since our first wall together.
We all make mistakes. Before this climbing season started, everyone on here just knew me as the sketchy climber who likes to show off, take unnecessary risks, and started soloing before I'd 'paid my dues' or whatever. I like to think that is no longer the case with the people I climb with, and I've learned a lot about myself this past year.
I'm sure the same can be said for Luke. When sh#t hits the fan, it's a natural instinct to go into survival, every man for himself mode. I've been there too, although in a completely different type of scenario. I learned from it.
I guess I'm just trying to say that Luke is a good guy. I enjoy climbing with him. We've had some great adventures together, been in some sketchy situations together, and been in over our heads more times than I can count. We've learned something new every time.
As far as the situation here goes, at least everyone involved is still alive. It sounds like Luke has kicked his own ass enough to know where he f*#ked up and he knows what to change for next time.
Sh#t man, stop being hard on yourself! You climbed El Cap and I'm jealous of ya. I thought you were jumping in over your head before you went, but you got up it due to your obvious skills, huge determination during insufferable conditions (I'm remembering your snowy night lead last year which I wanted no part of), and your irrepressible passion and "stoke" for doing things to the max. Three qualities that will lead you toward even bigger dreams and goals for the rest of your life.
You have the attributes of a skilled adventurer, things that can't always be learnt, and perhaps this is a wake up call about how hard it can be to balance your own drive and passion against being a little more conservative and thoughtful.
I know you made those decisions on your last night with no intent for harm, you just wanted to survive, and no one should criticize you for that. I'm guessing that you didn't feel like there was many options to take once you were in that position. That's were a little foresight can pay off, before it's too late.
Chin up bro, you totally climbed that huge rock, bask in the glory of that, mate!
First of all this Trip Report, although mainly a photo essay, is about a MY experience on the wall, MY decisions, and MY report card. So inevitable criticism should be directed towards ME and MY mistakes...
Upon reaching the top of the climb I was extremely scared, impatient and frustrated. I ran into some technical difficulties, the kind of technical difficulties that real climbers find solutions to and overcome.
Instead of figuring out a way to solve said problems, I took the cowardly way out and fled the scene. Abandoning my partner and our kit. Invalidating the Ascent completely.
Well sh#t, you left out some important details in your trip report!! LOL Not the first time I see this crap. There was a TR last year on summitpost in which another young lady forgot to mention getting a ride back from INYO SAR in a chopper. According to the report it was a first solo badass descent. Didn't look as bad-ass when the SAR crew members posted a few comments.
If you will post a TR, at least give an honest report please.
It's too bad this report didn't get the telling it deserved. It has so many facets! Bears, rockfall, doubt, overcoming adversity on the wall, finding practical solutions to technical issues, block tactics.... The rescue is just the part at the end! I sent Doug a pm yesterday. I seriously hope that he decides to tell his side.
Werner, why are you laying blame solely on Luke? Doug made the decision to try and weather out the storm instead of jugging up and bailing. I don't have the wall experience to lay judgement, but I do know that both men made their own decisions.
Werner in his own way is helping to encourage "truth and reconciliation" around a regrettable and likely avoidable incident that could have resulted in a climbers' death in addition to putting rescuers in harms way. Discussions like this shouldn't be about dumping on those involved, but they are necessary and may even save a life in the future.
The Canadian Avalanche Association publishes a book that chronicles and examines avalanche accidents with critiques of causative factors and possible corrective measures
The last time I read an Accidents in North American Mountaineering it provided similar summaries. The CAA publication makes a point of leaving out identifying individuals involved. If I recall correctly, the ANAM often provided similarly unidentifying information and critiques, but also occasionally identified individuals involved. I always wondered why they felt this was necessary.
One good thing about these publications was that the analysis is conducted generally by professionals, after all pertinent information and evidence is gathered, and presented as dispassionately as possible. Greg and many others are right in pointing out the benefit of learning and sharing from mistakes. Still, whats the hurry? If it was me I'd take my time and gather all I need before coming to conclusions, especially when it comes to judging yourself!
While thats happening I bet there's a ton more crazier epics we can all read and learn from in the ANAM and the AAC!
Excellent TR!
This appears to have all the necessary ingredients to qualify as a big wall epic complete with bad weather, personality conflicts and egregious errors in judgement.
I'm reminded of one of my first attempts on El Cap where we completely blew the program and scorched the late great Walter Rosenthal's fixed ropes in our ignominious retreat. The most powerful experience was Walter's gracious patience with us, a lesson that still resonates today.
As a SAR volunteer I'm particularly appreciative of Werner's perspective.
Thankfully, unlike many climbing epics, there's been no loss of life here, maybe just some loss of face.
I suggest what's most important is not the mistakes we make but our willingness to be personally accountable and learn from experience.
Luke's a straight up guy and runs with a good crew.
I expect he and his partner are both feeling schooled by The Captain (as many of us have been) and that this saga will become an important part of their personal narrative be that infamy, legend or both.
I know I'd probably be a salty dog after years in the SAR game like Werner (not judgin' ya Werner). I feel it is important to hear both sides of the story to gain some transparency on the situation. My first thought was "WTF why didn't the partner just jug out?". Or "why didn't Luke clean on rappel to free the stuck rope?". Without small nuances like these we won't be able to learn from each others mistake. And for what it's worth although we "know" Luke and his partner we don't really know them at all. They're names on a screen and strangers in a picture who should feel no shame or fear of being judged. We are hear to support, learn, and grow from one another's experiences.
The reason I posted photos chronologically leaving the dirt until the end was so that everyone, except Werner, could appreciate the great time we had on the wall until I selfishly fled.
In case I was too circumspect in my message, I'll ask this - is it that we really want to learn from this? Or is it just some some good old dirt we want?
If its learning you want there's already tons - TONS - of wildly varied authentic case studies out there, documented and published. The whole story of this may come out but I'd say leave that up to Luke and his partner, or anyone else who was directly involved. Luke certainly hasn't hidden anything and if he's inclined to leave it like that for now whats it to ya? Either way its not like we have some sort of "right to know" or anything.
Luke certainly hasn't hidden anything and if he's inclined to leave it like that for now whats it to ya?
I mean no disrespect by my previous response. I simply want to understand the situation better. With this I hope to learn and maybe add one more lesson to my bag of tricks for getting myself out of situations. What pitch was this on? The supertopo labeled 30th combined with the 31st? Or 31st combined with 32nd?
Bruce Kay & Chiefs last posts were awesome. Luke was kind enough to share at all when many would have taken this whole story, buried it somewhere real deep & never spoke of it again. Bruce's line "right to know" kinda sums it up for me. We should be happy he shared his awesome photos & that him & Doug are both ok. So what if he's really a soft ass bolt clipper stuck in an Aid climbers body, at least he's out there climbing, following his dreams, learning from his mistakes & doing his best, then coming back home & sharing his experience with us which I appreciate & think is pretty cool- for an anorexic boulderer that is:-)
In hindsight I'm sure both parties would do some things differently but ALL critics should remember they were not there and so are basing their armchair opinions on limited information.
when many would have taken this whole story, buried it somewhere real deep & never spoke of it again.
I would rather do that, than spray about climbing El Cap without giving out at least a Thank You note to the SAR crew. When someone does not mention such a crucial detail in their TR it makes the whole thing seem dishonest.
Luke seems like a good guy and I am sure he did not think something terrible could happen to his partner. Personally, I am not judging him for his actions up there- I was not in his shoes and can't judge. But PLEASE give honest reports if you are putting them out here. SAR crew put own lives on the line for his partner up there, and not even a word about those guys...come on!
Thanks for an honest opinion Vitality. If not including every detail is dishonest, then so be it.
However, as far as accusing me of risking SAR members lives by having them preform the rescue, as far as I see it they we're just going to work. With no intended disrespect, the people at YOSAR appeared to be extremely skilled at what their profession, but it was evident that they plan every move precisely, without endangering anybody in the process.
EDIT: Yes they do deserve a thank you and my apologies. Thank you YOSAR and I'm sorry.
However, as far as accusing me of risking SAR members lives by having them preform the rescue, as far as I see it they we're just going to work. With no intended disrespect
Dude you personally manufactured a situation that was dangerous for everyone involved but yourself.
But really, how much more is there to tell? Luke has been pretty candid on here, on the Cali thread both Doug & Luke told their stories. Werner provided some important details already, although now he's kinda being a little rough. Luke thanked and apologized to everyone he needed to. Anything more on this story might be picking scabs on what is a photo TR of a big ass route with photos of both partners having a good time & probably the memories they both want to remember most.
Oct 28, 2012 - 12:48pm PT
Relic and Big Mike,glad you had a great trip-
Luke-i was going as fast as i could up there,to make it sound like i was making no effort to keep up is just not true.i dont want what happened to ruin an otherwise great climb.i was still haulling the previous linked pitchs when you announced you were leaving in ten minutes from 2 pitchs above-after asking me to tag you the lead line witch was my anchor.had you have waited at p 30 rather than racing off we would have finished together with the gear before the storm hit.as it was-with 2 traversing pitchs to clean-a haul to finish and a stuck tag line-i felt it better[safer]to wait for light-and you agreed to meet me in the morning.i got hit hard that night and in retrospect i should have done whatever i could to get off that night even if you were already gone.this being said-i have no hard feelings-mistakes were made.I made mistakes-i wish you and Aislin all the best-when you write your tr,let it reflect on the good things about our experience-again-I wish you well Doug
you fled the scene (which i don't want to judge you for), and had other people risk their lives to save your partners life.
which they did.
how could you not care to mention that???
the "they are just doing their jobs" is crap. if one slips on the east ledges, he may die, and things do go wrong on high angle rescues too.
telling the story as it was, mentioning their names and saying Thank You would have been the very least.
Well I was obviously way out of line with that work comment.
Apparently my many thank you's in person were not enough.
The general consensus seems to be that I did in fact risk the lives of the SAR members involved, for which I'm very sorry, I did not intent to put anyone in harms way.
I am very grateful and thankful for them putting their lives on the line to rescue Doug.
See, nothing wrong with some Internet discussion, to rectify the discrepancies of my skewed perception.
Luke is f*#king human he made some mistakes so did Doug. I have found that if we as a collective group of thousands of big walls and millions of climbs help Luke and Doug to understand what it is they did that put SAR in a position no one wants to put SAR in as well as we help Luke and Doug understand what's acceptable when you and your partner agree to take on such a climb.
Luke by all means you thank SAR. Doug you as well. Luke tell the whole story that way we an help you learn how to not make those mistakes again if in fact you have not learned the lesson already.
I'm not going to judge you or Doug but I am, happy to give you any advice you want regarding what to do if such a situation occurs again.
Werner I would hope you throw some of your wisdom as well to this young man and Doug.
Own it Luke and when you own your sh#t both good and bad you get respect.
I would hope guys like Hudon And you no pants Ben give back some positive advice as it seems to me it is more rewarding than pointing fingers and pointing out ones mistakes. Perhaps Luke had no idea and I means NO idea how dangerous his actions were at the time he made that choice to leave Doug.
LETS HELP THESE GUYS BE BETTER CLIMBERS SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS AGAIN AND SOME YOUNG CLIMBER-CAN LEARN FROM THIS INCIDENT.
I wasn't saying that every man for himself is the right thing to do, I was just saying it's a natural reaction to people who aren't used to a situation like that.
Yep, +1000 what Silver said too. Nathan I thought your post above was appropriate & you were just defending your friend who you probably felt was being unnecessarily called out for things he already spoke of on another thread. My badgering him about sportclimbing & bouldering only stems from a lack of partners to do such things here right now. He was literally just sharing photos here. Studly, way to be constructive.
kid, it's great that you thanked them in person, but when writing a tr about that climb, thanking them in public and mentioning their work is a good move, that's what i tried to say.
I would hope guys like Hudon And you no pants Ben give back some positive advice as it seems to me it is more rewarding than pointing fingers and pointing out ones mistakes. Perhaps Luke had no idea and I means NO idea how dangerous his actions were at the time he made that choice to leave Doug.
Silver.
you're right. i could have been more complete in what i said.
on the other hand, kidcornier not giving his perspective on what happened in an extensive way makes it difficult to give advice. (or did i miss a post somewhere?)
to say something somewhat constructive, i would say that as sh#t hits the fan there is a few things that are a good idea.
-keep things simple (e.g. do not link pitches, set up simple belays, leave a biner on a penji point...)
-make sure you can communicate (if possible)
if the rope is stuck and you have an anchor, fix it, take 2 jugs and rap down it to undo the mess, then go back up and get ready to tag/haul/whatever.
worst comes to worst, undo the stuck rope and set up a jug line for your partner so you both get to the top and down leaving the show up there. (everyone bonks sometimes, there is no shame in leaving your sh#t up there because you can't deal with anything anymore, that happens...)
obviously, advice is easy in front of a computer, and i still think that the best way to learn from this would be to write down what happened, why you took the decisions you took, and then think about it.
I've only done one Grade VI, an "easy" one, and never had much interest in Big Walls--too slow, too much work, too much gear, too many tangled belays, too many other parties to deal with, too many sleepless bivies, and too much risk
if YOSAR did not exist as the ultimate back-up plan my guess is many people would not bother with El Capitan
Ben I agree Luke and Doug need to put the whole story out if in fact they want too otherwise we are speculating all day every day.
I know Ben you have mad skills and talent and there is probably not a big rock in the world that you do not stand a chance of climbing given the proper weather and money's.
I would like to see men like you and Hudon step up and mentor these younger guys on their mistakes in a constructive way. I know your not that old Ben I saw you on the bridge this summer during facelift Luke's young teach him something Ben. Doug and Luke you want to live a long time climbing get smart learning from guys like Hudon and Ben.
I know Mark you have been systematically laying out the basics for years here now from your anchor threads to tat removal and if there is one thing I respect you for more than your ability to climb its your doing this type of work so that any kid now crawIng one day can find your Anchor thread and know exactly what's and what's wrong in an anchor.
Ben lets see if Luke and Doug want to share that last day in detail and if not so be it.
I for one am just glad the are both alive and no SAR was hurt in this incident.
I have nothing to add here other than I can't believe the OP actually posted this online. Wow. I have a tough time admitting any defeat online...but this is like admitting to getting raped in prison - we know it happens, it's just either denied or not spoken of.
I personally feel that being called out is unnecessary in a situation like this. All it accomplishes is the person who is being called out feels like an idiot, and they don't learn anything.
These older experienced climbers (Werner) are our heroes. When we talk amongst ourselves about climbing, we don't compare ourselves to Honnold, Sharma, or Ondra. It's names like Hatten, Beckham, and Croft, who we one day hope to be as bold and visionary as they were.
If these older hardmen were to start calling us out on every mistake we made, it would work a lot more into discouraging us from climbing, rather then helping us realize where we went wrong.
Luke (and by Luke I mean all of us) just needs a little guidance, without being so negative.
I can't speak for anyone but myself and those I climbed with, but we all made mistakes while learning about climbing, sometimes serious ones. We usually learned from the mistakes.
Thanks for an honest opinion Vitality. If not including every detail is dishonest, then so be it.
However, as far as accusing me of risking SAR members lives by having them preform the rescue, as far as I see it they we're just going to work.
Where in my (unedited) comment did you see an accusation? I did not accuse you of anything. Only pointed out that they DID risk their lives. I am in no position to point fingers and say whose fault it was. Only 'beef' I had with the TR was lack of reference to the rescue, which was only brought up by other people who commented.
Hope all can learn from it, and hope you are back in the valley soon doing other routes. Personally I would climb with you, since I understand that sometimes sh#t happens and we all can f*#k up in one way or another. Almost all of us did. Glad both you, your partner, and SAR guys are safe. Maybe this learning experience will save your, mine, or someone else' life in the future.
PS: No 't' in my name. It's 'Vitaliy'
The problem here is that the report is incomplete. A lot of stuff happened, for which apologies have been made [and accepted, which is great] but we don't really have any reasons or explanations. Why is this?
Luke seemed pretty clear saying why he went down to the Valley right away, and it ain't pretty. 'nuff said.
However my biggest question in this whole clusterfvck is why did Luke [seemingly] wait so long to [apparently] check on Doug and then to call SAR? It [seems] to have waited until mid-afternoon. Why didn't Luke check on Doug first thing in the morning? I say "seems" because all the facts aren't being presented.
Did Luke wait so long because he:
was unaware that Doug was in trouble?
was expecting Doug to climb to the summit himself, and descend alone? And if so, what about all the gear up there?
was unaware of the severity of the storm?
tried to reach Doug via radio or cell phone, but couldn't? [I understand there were communications issues]
"I did fuk up and obviously want to hear people's opinion, hence why I posted up."
Anyway, Luke, why don't you just write the complete report? The information you have provided us is only bits and pieces, and is very incomplete. How about writing the whole damn thing out for us, so we can understand. Perhaps you could reference it with the timeline on the Yosar report so we can figure out what happened?
We'll quit beating you up now. We just want to understand.
Cheers,
Pete
P.S. Is it now possible to edit the subject line on McTopo trip reports? Can you do this on forum posts too?
"i have no hard feelings-mistakes were made.I made mistakes-i wish you and Aislin all the best-when you write your tr,let it reflect on the good things about our experience-again-I wish you well Doug"
Yup, most climbers have helped many other climbers off routes or out of a jamb. How can we help other climbers and leave our own partner? It is true that sometimes we're in a great headspace and sometimes we're not. And when something challenging comes along when we're in a bad headspace that is when things can go bad quickly. Knowing very little about this case, and reading between the lines, seems like Luke was getting a bit anxious about the situation, wanted to get off bad, didn't respect Doug's ability, became fixated on the negative and as he said... took care of number one. Has he been a great partner up until this climb and helped/rescued lots of other climbers through the years?... for all I know he may very well have. Do I want to partner up with someone who left a partner behind... not really. :)
So Luke since my last post you have received some good thoughts but the one that you should pay attention to is Russ's post about you being fingered by your partner.
I will second Russ's comment with a if your partner fingers you and you didn't ask for it you can bail on the last pitch in a storm for fear of fisting in the depths of a huge pacific storm.
You were just mentored by the Fish himself. Congrats
Let's not be too critical, eh? Luke seems to be engaging in enough of that himself already. I don't know how many of you would have posted what he has here, under the title "The Kid Flunks Grade VI; Photo Essay" Sure, it's a rainy November, with not a lot else to gossip about. And maybe there's more we truly could learn. Still, let's try to stick with our better angels.
Is there any climber who hasn't, to a greater or lesser extent, stood in Luke's shoes?
Nov 19, 2012 - 09:42am PT
Werner is right. At a minimum I would go with a kayak style top, one that has a neoprene neck cuff and wrist cuffs. Last time I was in a storm up there nailing away in regular rain gear the ice water was going in my sleeves and fire-hosing out my pant legs.
The only thing that will really keep you dry up there is steepness. Once you start futzing around in the rain or water or anything else, you are probably in a heap of sh#t. Stay dry at all costs.
Oh... and YER GONNA DIE!!!
to add: go up fat. During my "event" I started the wall weighing about 180 lbs. When I got down I weighed 162. I'm glad I had a lot of ass to burn and needed it all.
__
FWIW before announcing I was leaving in 10 minutes, I announced that the tag line was stuck and that I could not haul, then suggested leaving the bags where they were (where they are in the photo above) and jugging out.
My suggestion was rejected and a choice to stay was made, in underestimation of the storm coming I made the agreement to return the next day.
Well aware that finishing a wall in one less bivy then your partner was pour style I headed down, confident that Doug had everything underthesun to survive a storm in style.
The following morning in unfavourable weather we went to check on him from the meadow, he didnt respond to our yells to turn on the radio, and we couldnt tell through the binocs whether or not the fly was on.
At which point I decided to seek out advice, we got in contact with NPS(around noon) and explained the situation, including that he was amply supplied with food and equipment.
They were able to get his attention and have him turn on his radio. He indicated he was freezing and could not get himself out safely or weather the storm safely.
So hopefully this slightly alters peoples perception of my decision making process, although it will probably just stir the pot that much more.
EDIT;Time frame Aislinn says we were in the meadow between 830 and 9. Then after deciding who to talk to got in touch with NPS at 11.
As far as the speculation that I could have rappelled down the lead line to unstick the tag line; that would have been possible but not effective. the lead line was anchored to a tree on the left(just of put of frame in the photo above) the tag line was stuck (if you look closely the lead line leaves me and goes left, the big flake just beyond my first piece of gear) and the haul anchor is where Jim is in the picture.
There was no rope left over for me to safely access the haul anchor.
The most prevalent lesson that I'm learning out of all this is patients.
Had I been more patient finding a partner with the same rhythm as me, rather than going with the first person who agreed to go with me.
Had I been more patient at the top, instead of giving a "10minutes make up your fuking mind" command.
Not proud of the decisions I made, and hopefully I'll never put myself in a situation like that again.
I hope to see some more positive feed back to Luke he is learning from his mistake.
Luke I will do a wall with you any day and in fact this spring I would like it if you would join Fox and I on a wall. That's well over thirty grade 6 walls of experience and many grade 5 walls, you can see how it's done with a clear line of communication and planning. Yes bring your headlamp we climb at night A LOT.
Luke don't beat yourself up learn and don't forget what works and what doesn't.
Now go finish that thing on the chief and stayed psyched for the big rock you have the attitude tha gets one to the top it's just a matter of refining the rest if the package so everyone is on top at the end. Oh and the top s where the party really happens you missed that last time.
So the worst thing Luke did, was abandon his partner, but Doug apparently had the option to jug out on the lead line, but refused that option?
I would have been up that line in a flash, with a storm moving in.
Always tie in short when in a portaledge, especially if you are going to stand up and put your rain fly on! There's no reason for taking a fifteen footer out of your ledge. Plus if there's a storm anywhere within a hundred miles, put your fly on before settling in.
Cheers!
I don't really understand the negative feedback here - if Luke had stuck around and tried (I don't know how he would have) to get back down to his partner, what is the benefit? Spoon out the storm together? There would then have been two hypothermic climbers who wouldn't have been able to get hold of YOSAR. No, I think Luke did the only thing he could in a fairly high stress situation and possibly averted a much worse situation as a result of that decision.
Luke: I think the reason we're all still talking about this is because of a seeming "missing layer" behind the whole story, possibly more information about the interpersonal story between you and your partner, it does seem a little strange, as pointed out, that YOSAR only got themselves moving around 2pm the next day.
But that is by no means a requirement, that's your own story to tell, and maybe you'd rather forget about it.
The biggest thing I would take from this all is that climbing is much more than just about achieving an objective, it's about the partnerships we form as well and how we treat those partnerships, they have a direct effect and reflect how we live our everyday practical lives, and that's more about the whole story than just the final outcome.
I'm amazed at how many of you give him a pass for abandoning his partner. That's not a matter of experience. That's a matter of who you are inside. Russ is right -- no way you ever abandon a partner in a situation that could become dangerous, even if you're not getting along or disagree on strategy. Shameful.
When Doug originally came in to give his report here he was pretty pissed off for being abandoned and had to be calmed down according to my source.
Later here on the internet we do not see any such sign from Doug.
According to the analysis of one debriefer Luke could have further caused more problems if he had gotten lost on his descent back to the valley which could have exacerbated further problems.
It's much better to get the full complete picture then to speculate on why what if when.
This is an awesome thread. I failed on the Muir in 1990 by trying it with a friend that was not fit enough. We bivied at the flake bivi at the end of the big first day traverse. My friend Scott looked like a ghost by the time he got to me at the last belay, and I had really mangled the haul lines on the last lower with the bags spinning and winding up the rope. In a fit of frustration I got the knife out! And started cutting! I was just carefully trying to cut a piece of webbing that seemed to be causing some of the grief - taking a shortcut (maybe punn intended), and low and behold a haulbag dropped to the ground! That was that. Sometimes it seems it was deliberate sabbatage on my part - making the decision to go down easier, since because of my friends condition we would have to anyway. Maybe I did not want the blame to go on him. I probably knew somewhere in my brain the web I cut would not lead to the hammocks, so we had a good night at that expanding flake bivi. My friend never complained that we had to go down, so I felt good about ending a situation that could have become worse if we had kept going.
So! I love seeing new picks of what I missed up there and I love this story as it has unfolded. Seems like a perfect bit of trolling too. There's a pic near the end of one of the upper dihedrals - looks like it needs rotating - think we could get that done?
I was thinking too, that another category of climber could be added to the list people have to chose from when they sign up here. There's social climber, gym climber, sport climber.........how about armchair climber?
After we got down the next morning I inspected the contents of the vinyl rucksac I had cut free and the most interesting thing was that the filaments in the bulb of my headlamp were bent over at a 90 degree angle. That was pretty cool. Geez, 1990 seems like fairly recent history but that was 22 years ago!
P.S. In no way am I implying anyone was unfit - am just telling my story!
"Had I been more patient finding a partner with the same rhythm as me, rather than going with the first person who agreed to go with me."
O'Really? Doug emailed me on the 10th of July, 2012 specifically to tell me that he was going to be climbing Muir Wall with you! You make it sound as though you just picked up Doug in Camp 4 and was unaware of his skill level. He even drove all the way to BC to pick you up.
In fact, if you are implying in any way that Doug was less experienced or slower than you, it is PRECISELY for this reason that you should knott have left him alone up there!
It's much better to get the full complete picture then to speculate on why what if when.
No sh#t Sherlock.
Mchale's Navy - good tale!
As for the hallowed "Thou Shalt not abandon thine Partner" doctrine, well it is a good guideline. Hell its even a very good guideline, but a its a guideline, not religious doctrine.
There are plenty of examples of how perhaps blindly following that mantra may not be so smart. How about Donini "abandoning " his partner on Thunder peak? How about the doctrine of "Thou shalt not intentionally sever the rope that thine partner is suspended from"? Try telling that to those guys on Siulla Grande.
Sure its easy for us arm chair quarterbacks to say I'd do this or that but unless its totally obvious (which it aint, as werner just noted) caution maybe the better part of gratuitous pompous grandstanding, which is what I'm hearing
Interesting Jeremy, how do you think I tried to cover up my f*#k ups. Pretty sure I've been up front from the get go.
The intent of sharing these photos was to share them with those who were following mikes thread "going back to Cali" where details of the unsuccessful mission were readily available.
Hey Kid...you kind of open yourself up to this stuff when you choose to put your adventures out in public. I think the bottom line is most of us have a hard time seeing how you can leave a partner regardless of the circumstances, regardless of whether or not your rythyms were in sync.
In fairness though, you admitted it was the wrong call...even from you title.
Because I've been in situations where if my partner had bailed on me I'd have been f*#ked, I keep putting myself in Doug's shoes on this one.
Luckily for me, my partner never bailed.
I always try to see both sides of an issue; on this one, I can't see it.
Interesting Jeremy, how do you think I tried to cover up my f*#k ups. Pretty sure I've been up front from the get go.
Ed: Didn't you edit your thread title? I thought I read this TR the first time it popped up and got zero sense that a climber had abandoned his partner in the face of a storm on El Cap, something that would have stood out to me on reading it since I've never heard of anyone doing that before. Seemed that posters here goaded you into coming out with the story, and the thread title changed somewhere along the line. Could be wrong.
Part of me says there was SOME logic in just getting both climbers on top and leaving the haulbags at least temporarilly since there was a rope jamming problem, and communications may not have been the best. At that point they could have regrouped and re-thought things out. They could both have gone down to escape the storm or they could have more effectively gotten the haulbags out of there together - or at least just what they needed to bivi on top. It would have been better to rescue the haulbags rather than a climber.
Jeez, what a goat show this is turning out to be.
Yes, you got some lessons to learn, we all did (most of us still do). I had a storm epic topping on the NA on my second trip up the Captain, and it taught me some things I will not soon be forgetting.
But the thing that rubs me the wrong way about this whole debacle is how you chose to publicize your climb in a very one-sided way; all photos are happy smiley loving life shots. No write up of the event (or the climb for that matter). Context matters here. Tell the story of the climb, of the incident, and let's be done with this.
But don't get all pissey when you put this up on a public forum and ask for criticism of your actions.
Ed: Didn't you edit your thread title? I thought I read this TR the first time it popped up and got zero sense that a climber had abandoned his partner in the face of a storm on El Cap, something that would have stood out to me on reading it since I've never heard of anyone doing that before. Seemed that posters here goaded you into coming out with the story, and the thread title changed somewhere along the line. Could be wrong.
I haven't followed NOR read much of this thread and don't plan to. BUT, if you start out as a team, then you end up as a team. that's elemental/essential, to say the least!! (whatever decisions you make are mutually agreed upon)!!!
actually I don't think the general drift in theme is so lame, its just the needless character assassination that butts to the head of the line so much. There simply is not enough information to cast judgement and If Luke and Doug for their reasons prefer to keep it a private matter then there never will be. So what?
The whole idea of "partnership of the rope" and all that is completely central to what we do. There's no surprise why it strikes a nerve and good reason too. Just imagine what anguished second guessing went through the mind of Simon Yates after sending his good bro to certain death to save his own hide? He might have done things differently - better or worse. Either way, no matter what we know about it through public knowledge they apparently don't hold judgement against each other for actions that only they can really understand.
If they have a bone to pick its between them and maybe YOSAR, not us unless they chose.
If anyone else wants to open up their own foibles to public scrutiny then fire away. We'll be waiting with knives drawn and ready
the needless character assassination that buts to the front of the line...
Bruce,
Yes, I agree! That is partially what is was referring to as lame. It should be discussed. Something can be gained, learned...clarified yet, perhaps!
Like I said, i haven't read very many of the posts. But get the general picture. I was mainly using the term LAME in a broader sense! Although it applies to some specific aspects, but like you said, we don't know the whole picture. But lame overall in that this site is reminding me more and more of "As The World Turns."! With all the pundits passing judgment. Everyone injects themselves into situations, from their armchairs, with 20/20 hindsight.
If nothing else, there is some food for thought here ( i do plan on reading all of this) something to be considered and learned. I'll shut up until I finish reading the whole thread!! ...comfortably from my armchair!!!
I'm knott seeing anyone attacking Luke's character/identity. We are questioning his behaviour, and that is not the same thing at all.
I also don't understand what Luke means by "rhythm". I believe they were only on the wall for a total of six nights, which is pretty darn fast for such a long route. Many competent and more experienced teams take longer than that. Considering that it was Doug's first El Cap route [not sure re. Luke] and that they didn't fix any pitches, just blasted, it seems pretty damn fast to me. I'd love to have a partner who could match that "rhythm".
I've been sleuthing through this thread and found the reference the Kid made about the 'Back to Cali' thread and found this post;
Oct 22, 2012 - 06:32pm PT
Sh#t hit the fan up on Muir wall. I topped out around 10pm last night shorty after a nasty gear ripping fall. The tag line was stuck and the weather was getting fierce. I told Doug our best option was to leave the gear and bail for the valley, but he refused to leave the bags and insisted he was staying at belay 30. So off I went on an 8 mile wander and made it back to camp shortly before the storm hit.
Plans to go back and rescue him myself went sideways when I woke up to see snow on the valley rim. So I notified the NPS and YOSAR and they plucked his hypothermic stubborn ass off about a half an hour ago.
I've been beating myself up all day about whether I did the right thing leaving him there to fend for himself. Although we had all the equipment to theoretically survive a storm, it was certainly not on my list of super cool things to do. "
I was going to ask the Kid why he was so scared and this answers it a bit. A few posts later he mentions that Doug was climbing pretty slow given the circumstances. It sounds like Doug may have been pretty fatigued and unable to make the best decisions. It seems like the Kid could could have been more aware of Doug's condition. Perhaps they should have set up the tent before Luke set off on the last lead. That would have taken some of the uncertainty out of things. Why can't somebody rap down a haul line to find where it is jammed - too too tired too scared? And the other guy is just too tired? It does sound like the Kid's partner told him to F___off. ..................?
What happened, happened. I liked the part where the Kid said he had planned to go back up himself and help Doug (a good sign), but the storm got in the way of that. Doug may have been so fatigued that if the Kid had done anything else from what he did do, things could have turned out even worse.
I can't turn away, but I don't really want to see either.
If I had ditched my pard at the summit right before a storm, would I be posting about it for all to see on the interwebs? probably not. I've done a few things I'm not proud of, and will readily admit that my personal m.o. has been to keep these things a bit more private. So cut the kid a little slack. He's obviously asking for it, what with the shiny happy teaser pix and the swapping titles and the incomplete storytelling and the not...exactly... wanting to overtly slag his [ditched][slow?][not-super-compatible?] pard for all to see, quite. But he obviously feels the need for some kind of expiation, or else why choose a 7-billion-person venue to talk about it? And he's young, and he f*#ked up, and he knows it. And he'll probably never ditch another partner in the most exposed place on El Cap right as a storm hits again.
Obviously there were some partner compatibility issues that could have been better handled. That's probably the big takeaway here. Climbing big rocks is pretty simple. People are complex.
I also don't understand what Luke means by "rhythm". I believe they were only on the wall for a total of six nights, which is pretty darn fast for such a long route. Many competent and more experienced teams take longer than that. Considering that it was Doug's first El Cap route [not sure re. Luke] and that they didn't fix any pitches, just blasted, it seems pretty damn fast to me. I'd love to have a partner who could match that "rhythm".
Doug doesn't want to talk about details because he doesn't want to be embarrassed. Luke doesn't want to embarrass him so he's not talking.
If you read the el cap reports you will notice that Tom calls them "the crawling Canadians" early in the ascent. Then all of a sudden one night they blasted off. This was because they were swapping leads in the heat of the day initially and it was killing them..
We went to see them the night after Tom wrote this:
Muir: The crawling Canadians made it to the start of the upper section and camped out all day. Seems to be a trend these days! They have worked hard getting their kit up the low angle rock to this point and I suppose have earned a day off! Enjoy it men, you probably won’t get another one.
Aislinn, Relic and I talked to Luke on the radio and he told us they had switched tactics and were now sieging at night. He told Ais they were leading in blocks. I got her to ask him how big the blocks were and he replied "mine is the rest of the captain!"
He was joking obviously, but Luke led 26 pitches on this climb. That's why they went so fast.
Hey Pete didn't I overhear you predict they were going to bail when you were talking to Tom on the bridge?
;)
Edit: By no means do I advocate ditching your partner. Just stating fact.
Yes, I definitely predicited they would bail. They amazed me when they finished, and I was very proud of them for doing so! Well, sort of. One of them finished, at least. Had anyone bet me regarding the team's success, I would have lost some beers, for sure. They had a rather inglorious start, but fortunately I was in the right place at the right time, and was able to give them a bit of a hand.
"Doug doesn't want to talk about details because he doesn't want to be embarrassed. Luke doesn't want to embarrass him so he's not talking."
Uh, dude ... has it ever occured to you that you have the above completely ass-backwards?
Please bring me up to speed quickly on Zabrok ( I'm reading about him while I wait for your response regarding what you mean )..... looks like there's too much to have to learn there for now. I'm actually being serious about the tanning salon but I did intend that to be funny. And, I don't mean to take anything away from Doug and Luke at all. Stories like this make the Captain seem big again - I like that.
I see that Zabrok is right above me here! I have a lot of catching up to do.
What if you were not on the last pitch? Let's say you were at pitch 23 Luke, then what would you have done?
Putting yourself in a position where not being able to rap is bad news, being fast and efficient isn't just about climbing fast, its about everything else too. Linking pitches doesn't make one faster at all either...
I'm amazed at how many of you give him a pass for abandoning his partner. That's not a matter of experience. That's a matter of who you are inside. Russ is right -- no way you ever abandon a partner in a situation that could become dangerous, even if you're not getting along or disagree on strategy. Shameful.
I couldn't agree more! I cant believe you were not charged for the rescue. Or were you?
Keep on climbing kid. Take the lesson forward and make good in the world.
The full read of this TR is as good as a whole edition of Accidents In North American Mountaineering. Hopefully many will read it and come away with something useful.
Did he leave his partner or did his partner not want to leave? Did his partner want to stay with the stuff & things? Yes. Did Luke want to voluntarily rappel back down into a nice epic night when all the means for him & his partner to get off the wall were available? No, hell no. Look at that photo?? They were 100 feet from the top. Doug could have easily jugged out & they both could have walked down together. Instead he refused to leave & like a child chose to stay with the ever important stuff & things. To say that Luke left Doug is a huge stretch since Doug had only 100 feet of jumaring to finish the route BUT HE DIDN'T WANT TO! HE WANTED TO STAY WITH THE STUFF! STUFF WAS HIS PRIORITY! Makes more sense to say that they left each other if you ask me, or at most that Doug refused to leave. Doug could have slept in camp that night too but possessions were more important to him at that point in time. It's not like Luke tied him off on a knife blade & fukked off. He was not in need of a rescue when Luke left. It seemed like his reasons for staying & Luke leaving were more of a personal nature & had little to do with Luke leaving him in a dangerous situation. I'm sure if Doug felt the situation dangerous that he may have put some effort into getting the f out rather than voluntarily refusing to do what any reasonable person would have done and said "hey dude, wait for me, I'm jugging out!" . I mean seriously- what was he thinking!
Some ppl commenting on this TR should at least read into it a bit before being dicks & putting this whole thing on Luke. I'm not saying what he did is right or wrong but to put this all on him seems a bit of a stretch.
I'd go climb with Luke again, only single pitch sport or bouldering in a controlled environment like a gym of course, but yea id let him spot me :-)
Luke-i was going as fast as i could up there,to make it sound like i was making no effort to keep up is just not true.i dont want what happened to ruin an otherwise great climb.i was still haulling the previous linked pitchs when you announced you were leaving in ten minutes from 2 pitchs above-after asking me to tag you the lead line witch was my anchor.
Doug was pissed that he had to haul the bags by himself and Luke took off on self belay.
had you have waited at p 30 rather than racing off we would have finished together with the gear before the storm hit.as it was-with 2 traversing pitchs to clean-a haul to finish and a stuck tag line-i felt it better[safer]to wait for light-and you agreed to meet me in the morning.
Doug felt he was too tired to continue and inexperience led him to believe that he would be able to deal with the issue the next day. I would never go for a plan that involved me hiking back up the captain or ascending east ledges the day after a 6 day wall.
i got hit hard that night and in retrospect i should have done whatever i could to get off that night even if you were already gone.
This being said-i have no hard feelings-mistakes were made.I made mistakes-i wish you and Aislin all the best-when you write your tr,let it reflect on the good things about our experience-again-I wish you well Doug
Doug forgave Luke so maybe some of you guys should lighten up a bit with the negative non-constructive comments.
Let's analyze the situation. Obviously the best thing Luke could have done in this situation would have been follow regular procedure and haul the pitch instead or taking off solo on the next two. That being said, I guess when the tag line got stuck he could have rapped down to try and unstick it and if that was impossible considering
The conditions, reverse the pitch back to Doug and weather the storm with him?
The ropes obviously would have been frozen the next day which would have made it very difficult to jug out.
Crappy situation either way.
Edit still don't understand myself why Doug couldn't jug out but Werner said he couldn't.....
To be fair, Luke did share the gist of what happened in the Cali thread. Most people who were following that one were waiting for this one, and already knew what happened. He also said at the start here, that he intended to keep this to photos only, as the important parts of the story had been told elsewhere.
Obviously that's changed now, as he has said quite a bit about it, but for the people calling him out for not telling the story, he did tell it. You just missed it.
Hey Big Mike My intention wasn't to hate on Doug so sorry Doug if I was being an as#@&%e, my bad- I was trying to point out how it wasn't all Luke that caused the outcome of this situation & I imagine that they were both feeling some frustrations with each other at that point in the climb, look at the bags in that photo. So close!! they could have both went & got pizza & slept for 2 or 3 days then went & got the bags. I'm glad they're both ok. I guess Luke might have to write a bit more about that day when he's ready so we can all cut the crap here.
I think this is the most posts I've seen on a tr
Edit- when I wrote as#@&%e it turned it into as#@&%e!! ST has censorship now?!
The kid says he already learned the lesson that speed is safety, but I wanted to elaborate on this point.
Before I knew the dramatic finish to this climb and was just admiring the photos, I was struck by the Evans shot showing a “rest day” high on the route. I never felt comfortable on a wall until I got off it, so the idea of voluntarily spending an extra day up there struck me as foreign to my experience.
I was constantly nervous about running out of water or a quick and ugly change in the weather while high up. This always caused me and my partners to waste not a minute in moving up the thing. In retrospect, it is obvious that even doing a pitch or two on that rest day would have prevented the crisis as the storm closed in at the top of the route.
I have scant experience compared to the many here who count their El Cap routes in the double digits, and my big walls are decades in the past. I know from reading Hudon and other experts that rest days are not unusual these days and necessary sometimes. But I think a sense of urgency when climbing long routes is part of respecting--that is, properly fearing-- the mountains that you climb, especially here where the climb was begun with days getting short and with winter coming. Speed has long been recognized as one of the main ways to stay alive while climbing, in all its forms, from rock to ice to alpine, and big walls are no different.
That said, I have made enough boneheaded errors climbing to be wary of judging someone else’s bad experience. I am glad no one was hurt and wish the kid and Doug many years of safe climbing.
Great admiration for the YOSAR guys who provided the happy conclusion to the story.
Enough already. Good question. Who has the story on Henry Barber and the other guy on the Breach Wall? I can't remember the details other than that its the poster child for the charge of abandonment
Yeah we should probably starts thread about how Mr Yates left Simpson behind as well.
We should then bash him for not completely checking that monster crevase better before he left Joe behind.
Luke while many will say you did the wrong thing here and I think you would agree you made some mistakes I see this as your opportunity to understand that those who are telling you your wrong and bad are not people you want to climb with.
Sure it's fine to tell Luke his choice was poor but for f*#ks sakes give the young man some advice some positive ideas and perhaps a constructive bit of advice.
I want to thank Luke for taking this bashing it has shown me who i would climb with here better after reading about all these big wall aces who never made a poor judgement call or a mistake.
I'm of the opinion Doug had two choices one was dig deep and get it done or get left behind. I personally think Doug dug his own grave there and fortunately did not have to climb into it.
I'll ask again should Yates of hung out for days on the mountain trying to find Simpson checking every nook and cranny for Simpson.
I personally would rope up,with Yates any day. I would rope up with Luke any day as well. Be constructive here and educate this young man on some things and it so funny to read how all you pros never made a mistake that could have killed both you and your partner. How is that being being perfect?
Luke the offer stands any wall any time. I'm happy to tie in with you and I understand what you meant about a rhythm. When you find a partner who you can get this rythym going with the pitches fly bye and the experience is more relaxed.
PTPP your knowledge on climbing is huge educate do not choose sides educate both Doug and Luke be constructive. You were new to this once and perhaps,you never made this mistake but you have made plenty I'm sure and just been lucky not to have some bad sh#t happen.
Before I knew the dramatic finish to this climb and was just admiring the photos, I was struck by the Evans shot showing a “rest day” high on the route. I never felt comfortable on a wall until I got off it, so the idea of voluntarily spending an extra day up there struck me as foreign to my experience.
They did climb that day!! They climbed all night until 7am and then started again at 7 that night! They could not climb during the day because of the heat, and their water situation.
Heck if Doug didn't lead the first two a1 dihedral pitches the last day, taking something like 7 hours and refusing to give up the lead maybe he never would have ended up in that situation!!!
Thanks for providing the details about the reason for the rest day. The photo caption didn't tell the whole story.
It shows some serious determination to decide to climb at night to beat the heat. The disruption of normal sleeping patterns and extreme exhaustion will fog anyone's mind and this could help to explain the decisions that are being second-guessed here.
Im sure your a BAMF, and have done everything twice...
but, I'm pretty sure this WYO kid could kick your ass...Inside Yosemite your a superstar..outside of the Valley you aint sh#t..Great job at being a dick
Heck if Doug didn't lead the first two a1 dihedral pitches the last day, taking something like 7 hours and refusing to give up the lead maybe he never would have ended up in that situation!!!
3 hours to lead an A1 pitch = not ready for El Cap
wow-first off i'd like to thank Aaron Smith,Ben Doyle,and Matt Othmer as well as the other yosar members for rescueing me off muir wall,They are amazing at what they do-thank you.let me do my best here to say what happened.Luke and I were not jelling as partners,he was indeed faster and more experienced and therefore naturally took on the leader role,our original plan to swing leads was not working out in the hot sun so we resorted to blocks at night and he did most of the leading,we managed pretty good both to get along for the most part and make progress.on the morning of the last day luke gave me the 2 pitch dithredral block-[big mike,[refused to give up the lead?] were are you getting that??luke knew he was faster-he wanted me to lead these and i did,and not that it makes a world of difference but 27 is c1 and 28 is c2 nutting and small cams and i did the best i could-]obviously upset with how long it took he linked the next two 29&30, he hauled the gear bag to 30 and we released the pigs witch i would haul when i arrived at 30 As Was Normal.i arrived at p30 after cleaning and he was somewhere linking the next two,he took a fall,i could not see him but i heard him and inquired about him-he said he was ok and carried on arriving at the anchor shortly thereafter.he used our second lead line to climb these pitchs-it was tied to the other lead line maby ten feet off the anchor,the first move on this pitch[p31]is a penji to 5.8 hands so the first pc on the pitch was below and to the left of the anchor,i had just started to haul when luke calls down and asked if i could tag him the other lead line,well no i coul'nt it was my anchor,then he calls that the tag line is stuck[pigs are still down near p28 because i have only just started to haul]]so we spend some time trying to swing it free to no avail,he then calls down that he doesn't know what to do and hes leaving in ten minutes,leave the gear and jug out--juging out means finishing my haul and cleaning two traversing pitchs and passing the knot.so i figure if i'm going to do that then i'll fix the tag line situation in witch case its back in bussiness and yet he's leaving and quite obviously frazzled,so i figure[wrongly]leave then ,i'll stay and deal with it,i think what i said to him was 'f that'.we were not communicating well.as far as i can tell,i had a couple hours work in front of me to top out.he agrees to come back up in the morning and takes off.i figure i'll get something to eat and a couple hours sleep and get back to it,i'm exhausted and hungry.i dont set up my fly cause i'm an idiot and figure i'll just get a couple hours in my bivy sack-see the yosar report for my fiasco when i woke up covered in slush and soaked,moring comes i have been freezing soaking wet all night,i have no idea what time any thing happens-i am expecting Luke to call from above and help me sort sh#t out,i cannot at this point do it on my own,i'm soaked and shaking cold,my hands are not working ,it occurs to me i should try luke on the radio,they didn't work for us on the wall but we did get through to his girlfriend so maby i can get though to him.i call luke on the radio and yosar answers well aware of my situation,i tell them i'm cold and wet but just need luke to come up and help as planned,after serveral conversations they reply that luke is not coming,but they are.they haul me to the top.after warming me we start down.
No i was not needing to be calmed down because i was mad at being abandonned,i was pissed that luke did not come back as planned,not so much that he left,i was embarrassed to have been rescued.yes i f@cked up big and should have got myself out the night before.i tottally underestemated the coming weather.i agree that we did not jell as partners,we had different ideas about how things should be done,but i let him run the show seeing as he was better and faster.yes,i was mad he didnt come for me and couldn't understand why they could but he couln't.i can think of many things we/I could have/should have done differently and am truly sorry for having to have yosar risk their lives for me,they are amazing.i am amazed this thread has become what it has,and i read every word,many of you have been helpful and i thank you for that.so... hopefully this clears some unanswered questions up. as i said before-mistakes were made-i made mistakes-Luke apologized to me and i do not hold any grudges against him,and certainly nothing that happened to me during the night was his fault.once again-I need to thank Yosar for being the best at what they do-
Doug
Glad you're typing in person, and we're not reading your obit.
See you for wings at Magwyer's on Tuesday. In the meantime, there is cave to be discovered!
Suggestion: edit your post to throw in some paragraph breaks. It is hard to read in one giant paragraph as it's hard to follow and easy to get lost. Cheers and thanks.
Doug, every climbing partnership, even the best ones, have times of horrible communication, clashing styles, and occasional all out war on the wall, eventually. (cept for maybe those ultrafast organized speedy types)
What you guys experienced from an interpersonal standpoint probably isn't that much different from what all of us who have been up there a lot experience at one time or another.
Folks who have not been buried under a pile of gear with pigs dangling a full rope length in space and 200 feet of traversing ground to clean at 12:30 in the AM will question your judgement on staying put. People who know what you are talking about because they have been there likely will not.
Running for the summit when it is truly in reach can be wise. Running for the summit when it is *not* truly in reach can be a death sentence, and has been for others on el cap at the same time of year under similar circumstances.
For you, it doesn't sound like it was within reach at that time
The thing that makes your experience extraordinary is that in your case the kind of clusterf*#k misscommunicaton bullshit that happens on el cap all the damn time resulted in you being not only left alone to solve the *team* problems and then basically abandoned and then almost dying.
We were on the wall when u were up there , it got to below freezing INSIDE my bibler tent that night and we were 800 feet lower than you. You should be quite pleased you survived, I am sure you are.
The strong protect the weak, whether it be on a mountain, at sea, or in combat. If you believe otherwise, well you fail basic humanity. You failed your partner, but you know that. Do better with the rest of your life...it's a tough lesson.
ST poster who bashed the crap out of Luke take note of Kate's post. She never once made him wrong or bad she never once made Doug wrong or bad she delivered some solid advice and that is how we should treat each other.
I appreciate Doug telling his side of things. This thread has been nagging at me because the story just didn't make sense to me. Clearer picture coming into view here. Seems like both climbers learned a lot.
Doug wrote:
No i was not needing to be calmed down because i was mad at being abandonned,i was pissed that luke did not come back as planned, not so much that he left, i was embarrassed to have been rescued.
OP wrote:
However, as far as accusing me of risking SAR members lives by having them preform the rescue, as far as I see it they we're just going to work.
Two extremely different points of view. You've both commented on rhythm, gelling, etc. Personality and perspective definitely come into play on El Cap.
okay after studying this thread for 100 hours I think Luke and Doug are brave and strong fellows but now its time for them to take all their weed and their drama back to Mt. Assiniboingo in Canada
Doug- Could you explain why you weren't able to free up the second lead line at your highpoint.
Your description above says "I had just started to haul when Luke calls down and asked if I could tag him the other lead line,well no i couldn't it was my anchor."
The current fashion of knotted rope belay stations may have caused some trouble here preventing the use of an additional rope in the problem solving. A station built with slings to connect everything together doesn't require committing a lead rope while hauling.
One other point about this area of El Cap. The Turning Point goes through the middle of the photo above directly below the bag team.The orange flake/ledge right of center on the bottom is a spot I called the Point of Caring where it seemed for a short while that I might have run out of options that close to finishing my 14 day solo effort!
My drilling gear was totally screwed up by the end of the route and I was forced to place a drilled angle which stuck well out from the surface. This really needs to be pulled out and replaced with a conventional bolt as I fear it has been catching people's haul lines on the traversing pitches creating a hassle. Somebody please fix this mess if it hasn't already been corrected. It is the only blemish on this fine route.
Hi Steve-we had 2 lead lines,Luke started rope soloing 31 and 32 while i was cleaning 29 and 30 witch were linked as well,the first lead line was used as the anchor at belay 30 [kntted rope anchor as oposed to cordalette or slings] and Luke was using the second on 31/32-they were joined approx 10 feet off the anchor.even if the tag line were not stuck i would not have been able to get him the rope anyway as i could not free it untill hauling then releasing the bags and cleaning past the joining knot.I dont quoite understand why Luke couldn't rap/down jumar etc. to fix the tag line-it was never discussed-hope this helps its a complicated area-we were not communicating-Luke was in a hurry
Doug
No duh,I was in a hurry, there was a full fledge winter storm about to ransack the area. We had the opportunity to get out before the storm devastated.
Steve as far as your question as to why he couldn't tag me up the other lead, if the tag line had not been stuck.
I actually asked for the other end to be tagged up which there should have been 50m left over behind where he was tied in. For some reason Doug seems to be implying this was an unreasonable request.
I felt severely exposed without a rope up the last third class pitch to the summit, a pitch that might not be climbable with snow on it. (McHale - this is what I was scared of.)
I also felt my judgement was severely disrespected when Doug rejected my instruction to leave the bags where they were and jug out. He implied in his story that he couldn't jug out until he was done hauling, but that was actually a choice.
This appears to have all the necessary ingredients to qualify as a big wall epic complete with bad weather, personality conflicts and egregious errors in judgement.
My judgement was based on my experiences with wall climbing and winter storms(together and independently). Me being the only one of us with physical wall climbing experience(other then the 30pitches up until that point) you'd think the less experienced partner would respect that.
Warning hypothetical situation analysis
So had Doug followed my instruction to leave the bags(where ever they hung) and start jugging out would have been able to free the tag line with in minutes (it was stuck 10m to the left of him and the first move is a 6-8m lower out), he would have at that point have been able to tag up the entire primary lead line(the primary line was attached the the secondary 2-3m left of the anchor).
With the spare line available I would then have easily been able to fix a line safely to the haul anchor, then to the summit. Which would have dramatically reduced the vulnerability of our position.
We could then made to decision to either bail for the valley, or do a tiny rap back to belay 30 and got the bags up to 32.
Nov 20, 2012 - 06:55pm PT
Yeah, it's not like he really ditched him. I'm serious here. Perhaps things turned out as good as they could have for these guys.
**warning big f*#king meanie alert**
So today's lessons for those of you who want to learn something;
1) If you want to get out there on those big complicated routes - Start small and work your way up not skipping any steps or grades make sure your partner has done the same
2) Reading Hudon trip reports is not a valid substitute for experience.
3) 30 pitches up a wall is not the place to dispute the hierarchy of your climbing partnership
4) There is no shame in leaving your bags on the wall if it's the safest option available. Unless either SAR gets involved or you don't return to retrieve it.
You maybe had a freaked out partner and opted to complicate things with short fixing, blah blah blah instead of doing a couple of quick pitches without hauling. When that didn't work out you hiked down to the valley with your partner still on the wall?? Maybe instead go back down and help? I know folks are cutting you some slack for whatever reason but to me what you did is indefensible. Oh gosh it got scary isn't much of a reason to leave someone hanging.
my understanding was that dougie-boy didnt want to leave 5000dollars worth of gear 200ft from top, afraid squirrels would crawl down and chew it all up
so he opted to freeze his ass off instead of bundling up and jugging to the top and running down to the valley for some hot cocoa
what was kidcormier supposed to do sit there on the lip all night and stare down at the fool?
was unaware that Doug was in trouble?
