Trip Report
The High One - Don't Touch
Wednesday July 13, 2011 2:51am
Commit. Set big goals and fully commit. The payoff is supposed to be a wonderful journey, maybe an epic, but certainly achievement of the goal. Perhaps the Weather Gods will deny you, but the struggle will be valiant. The family motto - God hates a coward. Of course, we generally blast that message while playing a cut throat game of cards after a big holiday dinner. That motto can be applied to climbing as long as the corollary - God gave you a brain - is also applied.

Time is ticking, sufficient number and skilled partners weren't breaking down my doors demanding we go forth and climb Denali. I really don't like climbing with strangers or letting someone else make big decisions for me. Pick a poison - sign up with a concessionaire and go to Alaska. 8 middle aged men, 1 "mature woman". This is a recipe for heaven or hell. I'm dreaming of heaven.

The second that the baby bird flew off to college, the commitment began. Months of rock climbing were sacrificed to intense snow slogging. The aerobic workout thread has a few snippets of the insane schedule. Vacation days were squirreled away for a couple of years. In the best shape of my life, I arrived in Alaska, along with a few extra pounds of insulation.

The mountain's defenses were deployed immediately. Four long days, we sat in the hangar at Talkeetna waiting for the clouds to lift enough to fly onto the glacier.
top left corner top right corner
Comatose in the hangar
Comatose in the hangar
Credit: Seamstress
bottom left corner bottom right corner

So if you would like a run down of the eateries in Talkeetna, I can give you a complete report of best breakfast, best burger, best wine list,....

Finally the word came to go. We had lots of practice loading and unloading the plane, and I think we now hold the record for fastest load by non-professionals. The airstrip was chaotic with the teams desperate to get off or get onto the glacier.
top left corner top right corner
Rush Hour
Rush Hour
Credit: Seamstress
bottom left corner bottom right corner

We traveled on the night schedule since the crevasses were opening up. Of course there is great wisdom in doing so, but I longed for later starts and the warmth of the sun. We were on an accelerated schedule to make up time. Three big days, carrying and dragging 100 pounds per person, were required to get to 11,200' Camp. I was amazed that I could actually do this at only 125 pounds.
top left corner top right corner
Mule Train
Mule Train
Credit: Seamstress
bottom left corner bottom right corner
top left corner top right corner
Dusk
Dusk
Credit: Seamstress
bottom left corner bottom right corner
top left corner top right corner
Another team pulls into 11,200' Camp.
Another team pulls into 11,200' Camp.
Credit: Seamstress
bottom left corner bottom right corner

At this elevation, we began the tried and true method of cache, move up, retrieve cache over three days. Conditions were fabulous, with fairly firm snow on Motorcycle Hill, Squirrel Hill, and no wind on Windy Corner. 14,200' Camp was sunny and inviting, at least initially.
top left corner top right corner
Village at 14 Camp, and the famous neighboring peak
Village at 14 Camp, and the famous neighboring peak
Credit: Seamstress
bottom left corner bottom right corner
top left corner top right corner
Looks close - 2,000' to the top of the first fixed line
Looks close - 2,000' to the top of the first fixed line
Credit: Seamstress
bottom left corner bottom right corner

A two day blizzard wreaked havoc with the snow walls. In 40 mph winds with 60 mph gusts, we reinforced and built more snow walls. We are quite confident that this structure could be seen from the international space station.
top left corner top right corner
Construction of the Great Wall
Construction of the Great Wall
Credit: Seamstress
bottom left corner bottom right corner

The cache above the fixed lines was my highpoint. While that segment of the climb looks boring from camp, the views on it are superb.
top left corner top right corner
View of Camp from the Eyebrow
View of Camp from the Eyebrow
Credit: Seamstress
bottom left corner bottom right corner
top left corner top right corner
Credit: Seamstress
bottom left corner bottom right corner

The descent was an endurance fest. We left 14 Camp at 6 PM and arrived at 11,200' Camp about 9:30. One of my rope-mates was a little freaked out by the styrofoam snow around Windy Corner and Squirrel Hill. At 11,200', another team greeted us with water and helped stamp out a platform for our tents. Before we knew it, we were horizontal with warm food. The rest stop was short, 1 1/2 hours in our tents, before we resumed our downhill trudge laden with even more group gear - aka trash. The glacier was much more broken up, and five men took the plunge to their shoulders in front of me. For once, being small was an advantage, and I glided across the man-eater. We arrived at the airstrip at 10:30 in the morning. As we weighed our loads for the plane, I was shocked to see I had dragged 110 pounds down the hill.

The planes arrived at 1:30, bouncing on the softening snow. Even with snowshoes, we were post-holing as we loaded the planes. I snagged the copilot seat on the flight out and was treated to great views of the glacier.
top left corner top right corner
Credit: Seamstress
bottom left corner bottom right corner

No summit. I returned with 10 fingers, ten toes, 9 toenails, and four pounds less than I started. The pink underwear buried on the mountain is mine.

Did summit fever cured? No. I am staring at the phone, waiting for it to ring with folks who want to climb. I am thinking about buying a lottery ticket so I can quit work and take all the time I need to climb what I want. Failure is when you quit before you succeed. I haven't quit yet.

  Trip Report Views: 4,377
Seamstress
About the Author
Seamstress is a trad climber from Yacolt, WA.

Comments
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
  Jul 13, 2011 - 03:15am PT
great effort!
don't forget, it's all about the adventure!
AKTrad

Mountain climber
AK
  Jul 13, 2011 - 04:08am PT
Nice Photos!!! Love that mountain.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
  Jul 13, 2011 - 10:55am PT
Great pix!

Not one word about why you turned around though. Just here we are going up, this was my high point, this is the way down. Usually we have a reason for calling it off??

Are you going back up there?
murcy

Gym climber
sanfrancisco
  Jul 13, 2011 - 11:47am PT
Great pictures; way to get after it!
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Author's Reply  Jul 13, 2011 - 12:05pm PT
Can't get anything by anyone here!!

There was a bit of controversy/disagreement on my team. I struggled a bit on the fixed line, I think due to inefficiency and the first real affects of altitude. I wasn't at all discouraged and thought that with a little better coordination and a couple of days more acclimitization, I would make the heavier carry to High Camp at 17,200' an acceptable level of suffering. After all, I made all the other carries and never lagged before on the trip. The guide thought that I would "be crushed" by the heavier pack and take forever to get to High Camp, risking getting caught in bad weather, frostbite,....I very disrespectfully disagreed (OK, I swore like a marine for 2 full minutes, spewing words I didn't think were in my vocabulary), but there was no discussion. I still don't understand why he was encouraging my tent mate to continue, "it doesn't matter how slow" just the previous evening, but I had to turn around. There was no coaching, no warning that the rules changed to a timed event, no indication that this could happen. I was absolutely stunned. Still am. I would much prefer that hard turnaround times be set, and let the little old lady flail away until she missed the time so long as the weather permits. I could accept wilting under the load and failing to perform. I could accept turning around due to weather. I can't accept not being permitted to try. I honestly don't think I've been that stunned and angry in decades.

The pack didn't crush me. He did.

I would love to try again. The mountain is beautiful. The ever changing logistics added another dimension to the adventure. I enjoyed the process of preparing. I love the extra fitness acquired, I do not regret going and I would do it again. However, the time is so difficult to find.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
  Jul 13, 2011 - 12:16pm PT
(OK, I swore like a marine for 2 full minutes, spewing words I didn't think were in my vocabulary)

HA! Good for you!! That's the spirit that will carry you through.

Warning: Although there have been many who were so focused and determined to get up, that having achieved their goal, there was nothing left in the tank for the necessary and difficult descent. You have to be hard enough for the WHOLE job, not just getting up.

I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work out, and didn't mean to open a painful part.

You can definitely do this if you put your mind, heart and spirit to the task. Now you know what you're up against....guides included.

Best of luck to you and thanks again. The truth is, you just gave your thread longer legs by coming out with the hard part. Again, good for you.

You put up actual climbing content on a political arguing site? Shame on you.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Author's Reply  Jul 13, 2011 - 12:31pm PT
Agreed - the down part is mandatory. After all the climbing, mountaineering, rescue missions, and endurance events I have done, I believe that I have a very good grasp of what it feels like to reach my limit. I have turned myself around before. I had no intention of getting too close to that edge. A little suffering - totally expected and I'd be greatly disappointed if the early morning cold, some winds, and a little panting didn't happen at some point on this trip. If I wanted total comfort all the time, I would have taken a cruise ship to Alaska with the rest of the senior citizens (my peeps very soon!).
Daphne

Trad climber
Northern California
  Jul 13, 2011 - 01:28pm PT
Yowza! Awesome pictures and inspiring story. I really mean that, your dedication to yourself and your courage are inspiring.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
  Jul 13, 2011 - 01:38pm PT
If the guide truely gave you no warnings about your fitness or where you stood, or set any parameters before hand, just told you that you had to turn around and go down due to your fitness at your high point, I think I would be withholding payment to said guide. Thats not the way he should be operating. In fact, total BS.
Gal

Trad climber
going big air to fakie
  Jul 13, 2011 - 01:59pm PT
Nice TR-keep trying, the time will be right at some point... I agree with wanting to be given a shot to go for it before being told I can't... Maybe a different group next time will make it happen... Is there any way to lessen those loads (i seriously know nothing about this type of climbing)... sounds hellishly heavy. Good try, be stubborn and keep trying to reach your goal, it'll make it that much better when it happens.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Author's Reply  Jul 13, 2011 - 02:11pm PT
Of course, all fees are paid in advance. The guides tips reflect the odd client care practices. I saw a very different level of client/guide interaction with the group I descended with. They were amazingly attentive to each person and quickly figured out who needed some physical, logitical, or pyschological support.

The company and I are having a lively discussion about client care. The guides were very knowledgeable about the mountain and climbing, but actually interacting with the little people was not a priority. While we were moving, the guides were off in i-pod land and interacted with each other at breaks. They did not spend any time with clients individually. The man at the front of my rope only knew that someone was pulling on him. He would be clueless as to which client was struggling during that pull on the mountain. I struggled to keep up only on the fixed line the last day. Other days, I towed the man behind me who quit at 11, was talked out of quitting, and quit again at 14. The guide couldn't talk him into continuing at 14, and was very quick to shut me down after my 500' of lagging.

On the mountain, I kept a very low profile. In this lively discussion on appropriate client care and disparate treatment with the company, I was asked about where my notions of client care originated. No time to be quiet, I noted the details of my AMGA, PSIA, and mountain rescue background. I noted what climbing schools I had worked for and provided ample personal references. I also noted what I would do in this situation. A client paid $6,000 and has one last carry to make, you ought to figure out why they are suddenly having a problem and remedy it if possible. Don't assume that they just aren't capable. I'll carried that weight many times before and already did on this trip. Maybe you need to coach a bit on how to efficiently move on the line. One of the purposes of the cache day is to get in some acclimitization. Perhaps that is an issue, and a couple more days at 14 camp will help. Perhaps another jaunt up higher on the rest day will help with that. At a bare minimum, a frank discussion of the timetable necessary for a sufficient safety margin should be discussed. It was maddening to see later that the team took 11 hours to make the move to High Camp from 14. I damn well know I can carry 65 pounds 3,000 vertical feet at some altitude in under 11 hours.

People should never be stunned when they must turn around. That is poor communication. I've turned around a few people, and always used the process of helping them be successful if possible, then helping them reach the conclusion they could not do the required work or did not have the necessary skills.

Yikes, I'm ranting again!!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
  Jul 13, 2011 - 04:13pm PT
That's it, OUT THE MUTHERZ!!

JLP

Social climber
The internet
  Jul 13, 2011 - 06:53pm PT
You sound like an egotistical PITA who wasn't getting along with anyone, *and* you were slowing the team down, significantly reducing their margin of safety and success, all for your ego - so they got rid of you. You seem to know that, but you can't deal. It's pretty loud and clear from the above. If you weren't so ignorant, caustic and abusive toward your guides in your rehash, I wouldn't have posted this. Good luck,
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Author's Reply  Jul 13, 2011 - 07:18pm PT
That's exactly how I didn't want to come across - thus not including any of that in my original trip report. I was the model of good behavior on the mountain - except fot that two minute outburst that was just between the guide and I, out of earshot of anyone else. I don't know it all, and I can learn. I did not want to do anything to create drama for the team. I sucked it up, put a smile on my face, and continued to work hard around camp for the two days between the decision and the descent. And I carried a portion of my team mate's load when he could not. There was no spoiled brat on the mountain.

Now that I am back at sea level and the team is all safe, I think it is perfectly ok to fill out their customer feedback form and note that there are better ways to handle situations.

Perhaps I am delusional. Don't think so.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
  Jul 13, 2011 - 07:20pm PT
You sound like a reasonable person to me. A guide who doesn't encourage or,
at the least, keep you in the loop isn't earning his money.
Poor form.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
  Jul 13, 2011 - 08:06pm PT
The guides owe no explanation. Decisions in the mountains rarely follow logic or some organized process that can be talked though. Experience is king. If you don't like that, don't hire a guide, or consider paying for a personal guide so you're not stuck with the rest of a group's issues. That's just the game you signed up for.

That said, if you were lagging behind, as you stated, at 11-14k, there's a HUGE difference going higher. It's logarithmic. Have you ever been to these altitudes with a heavy load, in snow? If you were already behind in your group, and your group took 11 hrs for the next segment, what in the world makes you think you would have kept up? Do you really think, as above, that you could have done it faster? Sounds like weather already ate up a lot of the group's margin. Don't the guides owe them their best chance at the summit?
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Author's Reply  Jul 13, 2011 - 08:50pm PT
I didn't struggle till 15,700ish.

The three big carries up to 11 went very well. The cache and carry to 14 was easier since the weight was split between two/three days. The carry to 14 was heavier than what we would carry to 17. I expected it would feel harder because of the altitude and increased steepness. My tent/rope mate wanted to quit at 11 and did quit at 14.

No, I never carried a big load higher than 14,495' before. I have carried 60 - 70 pounds 5,000 vetical in training many times this winter in deep snow, and in the past on Rainier, Whitney, the Grand and a variety of missions. I made a few jaunts up to Camp Muir and above Timberline to get some elevation added to workouts. There was evidence that I could do this. Tell me what I need to do, and I'll be very focused on doing exactly that. If I can't do it in acceptable parameters, I would accept the turnaround decision. As mentioned earlier, I have made the decision to turn around before.

You are right in that I should back out if I was struggling since 10 or 11.

When the sh#t hits the fan, the leader speaks, and everyone complies. Absolutely. Safety first. When the weather is good, everyone is comfy, and the task is completed, there is plenty of time and energy to process. I specifically selected a guide service that represented themselves as committed to developing their clients capabilities and decision making. I looked at the marketing materials, talked to them on the phone, visited their offices, talked to previous clients, and carefully selected which concessionaire I would go with. Yes, the three guides had a responsibility to all six clients.

I have my suspicions about what happened after I left. I wasn't there, so I don't feel qualified to speak about that.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
  Jul 13, 2011 - 09:58pm PT
Rainier, Grand and Whitney aren't anything. You carry a light load to ~11k and then nothing to the summit, back home for dinner. There is no comparison.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
On the road.
  Jul 13, 2011 - 10:04pm PT
Failure is when you quit before you succeed. I haven't quit yet.

Great line.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
  Jul 13, 2011 - 10:06pm PT
Thanks for the trip report! Sorry it didn't work out, but it sounds like you have more than enough fitness and experience to form a private team, and do the climb yourself. (That is, if you can find the right team-mates.) It does sound like the operator made a rather abrupt decision about your continuing, and didn't communicate it, or any concerns giving rise to the decision, very well. And he seems to have had a somewhat less than professional approach. But then there's two or more sides to most stories, and I wasn't there.
climbski2

Mountain climber
The Ocean
  Jul 13, 2011 - 11:25pm PT
It is very difficult based on the information to understand exactly why the guide turned you around.

Here is a possibility. Perhaps you had such a difficult time with the fixed lines that it did not appear you would likely gain the skill to ascend safely during the trip. There are short sections of fixed lines above 16.. even a bit on summit day. (some years). Certainly no-one relishes having a particularly slow client with bad techniqueon summit day on Denali pass.

I could understand that being the case because the next carry to 16'2 is permanent. From here out you are traveling to the summit.

It would be difficult to send you down from the next trip to 16'2 or above without sacrificing one of the assistants for the rest of the trip or stopping the whole trip so 2 assistants (if they have 2) can go down hand you off to another company group and come back up. Even if they had an assistant or two that could or would do so, it would add a significant workload for that guide getting back to the group.

It is also quite possible you were just having a bad day. Happens to everyone sometimes. Unfortunately that carry to 16'2 is pretty important for evaluating your clients. As I mentioned above it's a real hassle from here out to turn one around.

Again without being there it is hard to say why.. but certainly easy to understand your disappointment.

That mountain is suprememly beautiful to spent time on .. I hope your next trip goes much better. It should.

Zander

climber
  Jul 13, 2011 - 11:06pm PT
Thanks for posting you TR. Looks cool up there.
Climb on!
Zander
Studly

Trad climber
WA
  Jul 13, 2011 - 11:28pm PT
Rant on sister! For 6 grand, maybe they could have clued her in a little before just shutting her down. In fact for 6 grand, they better in advance be making every effort to make sure their client does get a shot and is enlightened at what is expected. What guide service was it?
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
  Jul 13, 2011 - 11:32pm PT
three full days to 11K doesn't exactly inspire confidence in a summit bid

not trying to be critical. thanks for the nice photos
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
  Jul 13, 2011 - 11:43pm PT
You might want to consider climbing some of the 20,000 trekking peaks in Nepal the next time to see how you do at altitude in an environment where you can afford plenty of manpower to help. You can do one of those peaks for half the price you paid to go to McKinley and that includes air fare. And if it's any consolation, the Sherpas normally don't hump the heavy loads that you did, unless they absolutely have to.

I have in fact read that many people who do well in the Himalayas struggle on McKinley. If the reverse is true, you should do well in the Himalayas and one of the precursors to doing well at altitude is having gone to higher elevations previously. The British discovered that already in the 1920's. It is true that things become exponential in difficulty above 15,000 feet.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
  Jul 14, 2011 - 12:06am PT
The guides owe no explanation.

BS.

1) Guides make less than perfect choices all the time. Need examples?

2) Some guides are better with decisions than others.

3) Some guides are better with people than others.

4) $6,000 paid in advance means you can demand an explanation.

Give me a break JLP.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Outside the Asylum
  Jul 14, 2011 - 12:09am PT
What might JLP's personal interest in all this be? Is he a commercial climber? Does he work on Denali? And so on.
climbski2

Mountain climber
The Ocean
  Jul 14, 2011 - 12:43am PT
Survival is spot on.

Not only is his list correct it is not complete.

Many guides are plain idiots. Climbing bums without a brain making stupid mistakes regularly. Seen several.

Like the average climber, guides are often not good with people. Kinda the opposite of what they should be.

I've also worked with some incredible guides. Patient, very competent and intensly interested in their clients.

They damnwell have a responsibility to explain a decision of this seriousness to a client .. and be willing to take a bit of swearing by a frustrated client. Dosn't mean they have to change their mind but the client has a definite right to expect a reasonable answer.


again not being there it is pretty impossible to figure out why the OP was sent down.

I am impressed by her in general. But again only one side of the story.

I hope she makes it on another trip

:)
---------------------------------



Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Author's Reply  Jul 14, 2011 - 01:06am PT
I absolutely appreciate many of the comments. I wanted the challenge and understood that this was a big step up. That is exactly why I didn't go the private party route. I simply don't have a group of friends that have the required skill set and time to pull this off.

Time to look at the pictures again and be inspired again. Then it is time to put them away for awhile, go visit Mr. Rock who can fully absorb all my attention, make me forget about disappointments in other aspects of my life, and provide me many moments of truth. There will be flashes of brilliance and gear retrieval missions.

JLP, I'm not ready to take my place in the kitchen quite yet. You don't have to tie in with me, and I won't imperil you.

3 full days is an "accelerated schedule". The sample itinerary for most concessionaires calls for 1) long flat single carry to 7,800, 2) cache at 10,000, 3) move to 11,200, 4) retrieve cache. We did no cache and instead tore down and built camp each day. Taking the time to acclimatize is emphasized and built into all the concessionaire's schedules. Down in the Cascades, we are used to running up to 14,000' very quickly. That explains why various forms of altitude illness is twice as prevalent on Rainier than Denali. You can confirm that via http://www.nps.gov/dena/planyourvisit/upload/English-2.pdf.

Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
  Jul 14, 2011 - 01:15am PT
By Himalayan standards you went up very fast and even though you didn't have the classic advanced symptoms of altitude sickness, I'm betting some of your slowness had to do with that. You can climb a 14,000 peak with a headache and nausea and get down again relatively quickly. Above that altitude, the problems multiply fast and you can get into real trouble before you are able to descend enough.

You definitely didn't waste your time there and I think if you go to altitude again, you will see the good you did yourself on this climb, especially if you're not carrying such heavy loads.
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
  Jul 14, 2011 - 09:35pm PT
Thanks for posting!
You are very determined, this is just a small part of your climbing career!
The Lisa

Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
  Jul 18, 2011 - 10:09am PT
I am sorry that your ascent was halted in that manner, Seamstress. You had to abide by the guide's decision though so you certainly did not quit. The mountain is still there for next year.
I was fortunate to go with two friends and not use a guide service. You have time to find that sort of team :)
Lisa
Jingy

climber
Random Nobody
  Jul 18, 2011 - 10:30am PT
Inspiring!!!


Thanks for the story!

Cheers
phylp

Trad climber
Upland, CA
  Jul 18, 2011 - 12:39pm PT
Seamtress, thank you for sharing your adventure and your experiences. How wonderful that you got in the best shape of your life while preparing for this trip. I look forward to hearing about more big peaks in the future. Jan put forward some great ideas about the himalya. Maybe next time, wherever you go and whatever you set your goal to be, you will have more completely the experience you are envisioning.
Alpinista55

Mountain climber
Portland, OR
  Jul 18, 2011 - 03:37pm PT
Unfortunately, when you hire a guide you give up the dicision-making role. I agree completely with Survival, that for $6k you were owed an explanation of the guides decision, but you hired the guide to make those decisions for you.

I made 7 trips into the Alaska Range years ago, no guides, just a bunch of friends who learned by doing. Did we always make the best choices? Hell no! But we survived, and the best part of the whole experience was the research, planning, preparation, self-reliance, and successes that were wholly our own.

I'm not recommending that you, or anyone else, go guide-less into the Alaska Range. It's a serious place, with life and death consequences for mistakes. But if you want to have things your own way you can't pay someone else to take responsibility for your safety.

Jk
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Author's Reply  Jul 18, 2011 - 03:49pm PT
You're right about that. I live by the motto that you should never fully abdicate responsibility for your own safety. So even guided, you have to be thinking and vocal. You do lose control. I was hoping that would increase the chances of success while simultaneously reducing the learning curve/risk.

On a positive note, I never found myself shrieking, "There is no freaking way I'm going to do that. Are you out of your mind?" I did that 15 years ago while being guided. Another memorable day.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
  Jul 18, 2011 - 04:17pm PT
Nice post Jay. I humbly cower before your wisdom once again....

Alpinista55 is tha MAN!!
Go