Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 8521 - 8540 of total 28439 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
is that the same science that gives me air conditioning, sent a rover to Mars, and just removed a piece of vertebra in my spine to relieve nerve pressure?

same science that powers nuclear Navy ships?

oh come on, science does not make value judgments , it is how humans use it for good or bad

Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
Why yes it is the same science! A systematic investigation of phenomena based on observations and testable hypotheses.

Science can do wonderful things... and in the hands of the wrong people, horrible things... just like guns, political power, etc.

Denying the science behind the atomic bomb [climate change] does not make it any less real.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
It is the same science that allows you to catch introduced brook trout[a char].A species that never occurred west of the Mississippi.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:05pm PT
oh come on, science does not make value judgments

I will agree with you on that.

BUT. It is you scientist that do the judgement making. Integrate your ego's into the mix, and the science is now compromised and totally infected with humanism.
It is the same science that allows you to catch introduced brook trout

Might be. But I spend more time working the Native Golden's and Paiute Cuts.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
you just agreed with norton.


They do not stock goldens in the east ,do you know why?

It is science











GD
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
But I spend more time working the Native Golden's and Paiute Cuts.

Yeah? What equipment do you use?


the science is now compromised and totally infected with humanism.

And you know this because you think this? It must be wonderful being a moran.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
OK,

so today the BIG ASS REPORT came out:

http://www.worldenergyoutlook.org/media/weowebsite/2013/energyclimatemap/RedrawingEnergyClimateMap.pdf


Both bad news and some not-quite-so-bad news about carbon dioxide emissions can be found in the 126-page report released Monday by the International Energy Agency World Energy Outlook: Redrawing the Energy Climate Map. The report notes that global, energy-related carbon dioxide emissions rose 1.4 percent in 2012, 31.6 billion tons, the highest ever. The United States reduced its CO2 emissions by 200 million tons since 2011, Europe by 50 million tons and, while China increased its emissions by 300 million tons, it was the lowest annual increase in a decade as the country upped its investment in renewable sources of energy and efficiency measures.
A rise is still a rise, however, and if no action is taken, there is no way to keep the world from exceeding an accompanying temperature rise of 2C (3.6F), the internationally accepted target that scientists say will present problems, but ones that we can adapt to. Without action, we're headed for a 5.3C rise (that's 9F). Catastrophic.

Delay is denial.

Right now, according to the IEA report, by 2020 we will exceed by four billion tons the CO2 level scientists say is necessary for staying on a 2C trajectory .

http://www.dailykos.com/


No one here is denying that both the earth's temperature is rising and no one is denying that the CO2 in our atmosphere is rising.

We can debate about the degree of the above and if human have anything to do with it.

Personally I will be dead long before any bad stuff due to climate change effects my life, likely everyone on this thread can say the same.

Anyway, the report is out, click on the link and start calling it bullshit and denigrating the "science" and the "elite PHD's" behind the studies.

THEN, call Joe the Fuking Plumber when you have your coronary.
Bob Harrington

climber
Bishop, California
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
Regarding this year's snowpack in the Sierra Nevada, it's been an unusually meager year. The Calif. Dept. of Water Resources Bulletin 120 (Water Conditions in California) has this to say about statewide conditions:

"Hopes for some late season improvement in water supply were dashed when April precipitation turned out to be only half of normal and drier in the southern half of California. After a wet start in November and December, the four months of January through April were the driest such period of record, exceeding the previous low amount of 1977. The small residual 15 percent of average May 1 snowpack is the 3rd driest in 60 years; only 1977 and 1990 had less at this time.After a buildup to about 65% in mid-March, melting started early this spring with about 40 percent of average left on April 1. The bright spot is that reservoir storage overall is near normal for this date and can be used to augment reduced runoff for many of the State's water users in coming months."

Bulletin 120 is available at:

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/snow/bulletin120/index.html

Closer to home (Bishop, that is) Bulletin 120 reports that precipitation for the South Lahontan Region (incl. Owen River, Mojave River, Death Valley, Antelope Valley) received 40% of average precipitation for the period Oct. 1, 2012 through April 30, 2013, and that the forecast for runoff for April-July the Owens River Basin is 46% of normal. That's similar to LADWP's runoff forecast of 54% of normal for the period April 1, 2013 through March 31, 2014. To put that in context, since 1935, only 1960, 1961, 1977, and 1990 have had lower runoff than is forecast for 2013-14, and that is coming on the heels of a very dry 2012-13 at 57% of normal runoff. If next year is dry, we are really going to be in for some hard times.

Monolith, where'd you get those snowpack plots? Those are nice. I've been thinking about putting together plots like that for DWR snow pillows, but also putting quartiles on the plot to give a sense of the historical range for any given point in season.

Rick, where'd you get the idea that California has a total lack of reservoirs?

Dingus, Cadiz is back....it's backkk.....

USGS just came out with a report on groundwater depletion in the US. It's at:

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/gwdepletion.html
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:30pm PT
We can debate about the degree of the above and if human have anything to do with it.

It will be a short debate if the judges know anything about stable isotope geochemistry...
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
Bob, you can make those custom plots at water.ca.gov. Unfortunately, the site is extremely slow now. I'll edit in an exact url when it works.

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
since 1935, only 1960, 1961, 1977, and 1990 have had lower runoff than is forecast for 2013-14

Thanks for chiming in Bob. You clearly indicate that this event has indeed occurred several times before in the last century prior to the warming debate. Obviously countless times in the past prior to the events last century. Amazingly, the seasons following the dry events, the snowfall amounts were considerably more than the average amounts.


As far as my claim to lack of reservoirs. Since 1971, only six new reservoirs have been constructed in the state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dams_and_reservoirs_in_California

Since that period, the population and water demand in the state has tripled possibly even quadrupled. Makes no sense what so ever when events as you indicate occur. Especially if at 50% or more of that collected water goes towards agriculture that only 20% at of it remains here in California. Most is exported to other states and countries.

Just another reason that we need to start constructing and implementing desal stations along the entire US coast line. Not one in California that serves the people perse. Only industry and research.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
ED

* Droughts happen. They are a natural event. Nothing new. Please no one start stating that the current drought is due to AGW.

* Millions if not billions of gallons of snow melt and rain water goes untouched annually . Straight to the Pacific. More reservoirs need to be implemented to capture that wasted resource for the massive population within the state of CA.

* Start building Desal stations to supplement the water req's.

Clear enough for you ED.


BTW ED, I commend you on paying for you education outright from your sweat and blood. I also thank you for supporting the GI Bill. If it means anything to any of you, I got my BS in Cultural Geography via the GI Bill.

The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
Desal stations ED. Military Survival verbiage. Desalination plants.

Agriculture. The number one industry in the state of CA. The fifth largest agriculture supplier in the world. Most of the states water goes towards that. Especially in the Central Valley. Primary reason the ground water in the Valley is mostly gone.


Per Bob's source.
http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/gwdepletion.html
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 11, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
Amazingly, the seasons following the dry events, the snowfall amounts were considerably more than the average amounts.

Amazingly, you are attempting to build a correlation with very limited data and even less intelligence... which makes it all the more entertaining when you pretend to discredit the GCMs.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 10:40pm PT
Amazingly, you are attempting to build a correlation with very limited data

Here's one. Look for yourself. Limited data. Not.

http://www.thestormking.com/Weather/Sierra_Snowfall/sierra_snowfall.html


Do some homework New PhD Christ and you will also see that the AO went into a negative phase and all were El Nino periods that supplied the extra push for substantial snowfall events after the droughts indicated by Bob H.

La Nina's delivered the powerful blows that induced the droughts. Each and every time. Negative AO combined with the ENSO baby. That produces snow. Lots of it.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
Anyone else care to explain what constitutes a valid (statistically significant) correlation to this fuking moran? I've got better things to do.

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
Anyone else care to explain what constitutes a valid correlation to this fuking moran?

Troll, troll, troll your boat merrily down the stream...
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 12, 2013 - 12:56am PT
I see you guys spent the whole day attacking the Chief. Well congratulations, but are you going to apologize to him when this phony science of CAGW eventually crashes and burns when confronted with the real scientific explanations for the ever changing climate. Another little hint, it won't take a manufactured consensus either, just actual testable and verified predictive capability.

Bob, glad you could join us. California needs legions of applied scientists to engineer the solutions of the problems preventing a bright future, not legions of study buddies always screaming doom. Many dams, especially in the northern reaches of the state ,are slated for destruction and behind each is a reservoir. And yes as the Chief calls for-Desal plants on the coast.They also need to harvest and produce their own energy.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 12, 2013 - 01:05am PT
but are you going to apologize to him when this phony science of CAGW eventually crashes and burns when confronted with the real scientific explanations for the ever changing climate.


Rick - yes. Absolutely and gladly. I really hope he's right. You too. But why the hell would I think that?
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 12, 2013 - 01:07am PT
Anyone else care to explain what constitutes a valid (statistically significant) correlation

See what happens when you get the official title of a White Coat. It goes from looking at reality to propagating propaganda based on numbers that are all made up. Statistics have absolutely zilch to do with ENSO, El Nina and the AO NewDocChrist.

But then you would not be able to understand the reality of it if you were stepping on the IED. You'd be too busy trying to evaluate the statistical correlation of the fuse and the cell phone numbers/freqs that will in fact trigger it. Then, you'd be evaluating the statistical correlation of the angle of the weapon where it lays and whether you'd lose one or both legs at the knee or all the way to just below the hip. Then, you'd scratch your head and ask yourself if you in fact were really standing on an actual IED or not. In the mean time, BOOOM! Ultimately saying to yourself that was not statistically accurate.
Messages 8521 - 8540 of total 28439 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews