Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
drove from midland to albequerkie using side roads back in the early 90's

90's? It was the same thing in the 60's. Nothing new.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:16pm PT
I like Bruce's take
this thread is now an exploration of the minds that deny

It's conflicting to think that people are so easily swayed to an ideology.

And I will have to say, it's only right wingers/libertarians/authoritarian (followers) that go to the denial side

There is Not One Liberal/Progressive or actual scientist on ST that side with the denialists.


Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
Yeah, so that word...

hypocrisy: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not.

As in, feigning a belief in science when it reveals climate fluctuations over millennia... but not believing in science when it clearly shows a departure from those very same climate fluctuations.

I have not seen any evidence of monolith feigning a belief in something he does not appear to believe.

On the other hand, Chuff and his fellow deniers pick and choose what science to believe based solely on what they already believe... which results in obvious hypocrisy.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
There is Not One Liberal/Progressive or actual scientist on ST that side with the denialists.

Holy Shet! It took your PhD to figure that one out Craig? Outstanding. Very Very Good. Hope that wasn't too brutal for ya.

BTW, DRF and DR Christ, etc. WTF is that all about. Oh, the elitist "White Coat Intellectual" club. Got it.

Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
denial, projection, distortion, superiority complex... it is like an intro to defense mechanisms. Why are the deniers so defensive?

BTW, DRf and DR Christ, etc. WTF is that all about. Oh, the elitist "intellectual" club. Got it.

Says "the chief"... hahahaaaa. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a nickname rather than an official title? Or are you actually a CPO or other type of chief?
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
Why are the deniers so defensive?

Defensive? Dude. Your the one throwing all them slanders and demeaning names at us. Discrediting etc. We're not defensive. It is you jacking your PhD penis all over. "I know. I have a PhD. Do not argue with me/us." Now that is defensive. Big time hypocrite actually.

It's just a title dude. Just a frkn title you paid big bucks to some University to receive. Now you are a slave to the University for the rest of your life. The Loan. DR PhD.

Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
You can argue with ME all you want. You can't argue with the science... especially when you don't know ANYTHING about it... unless of course you have no problem looking like an idiot.

FWIW, I didn't pay for my degree. I worked for it. Huge difference.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
Is that the same science that created the modern day cigarette, pesticides and atomic weapon that have killed more humans than any other man made element.

Oh I love it.

FWIW, I didn't pay for my degree. I worked for it. Huge difference.

So now you're gonna tell me that not one of your "degrees" is paid for. Your BS, MS etc.

What is your PhD in.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
is that the same science that gives me air conditioning, sent a rover to Mars, and just removed a piece of vertebra in my spine to relieve nerve pressure?

same science that powers nuclear Navy ships?

oh come on, science does not make value judgments , it is how humans use it for good or bad

Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
Why yes it is the same science! A systematic investigation of phenomena based on observations and testable hypotheses.

Science can do wonderful things... and in the hands of the wrong people, horrible things... just like guns, political power, etc.

Denying the science behind the atomic bomb [climate change] does not make it any less real.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
It is the same science that allows you to catch introduced brook trout[a char].A species that never occurred west of the Mississippi.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:05pm PT
oh come on, science does not make value judgments

I will agree with you on that.

BUT. It is you scientist that do the judgement making. Integrate your ego's into the mix, and the science is now compromised and totally infected with humanism.
It is the same science that allows you to catch introduced brook trout

Might be. But I spend more time working the Native Golden's and Paiute Cuts.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
you just agreed with norton.


They do not stock goldens in the east ,do you know why?

It is science











GD
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
But I spend more time working the Native Golden's and Paiute Cuts.

Yeah? What equipment do you use?


the science is now compromised and totally infected with humanism.

And you know this because you think this? It must be wonderful being a moran.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
OK,

so today the BIG ASS REPORT came out:

http://www.worldenergyoutlook.org/media/weowebsite/2013/energyclimatemap/RedrawingEnergyClimateMap.pdf


Both bad news and some not-quite-so-bad news about carbon dioxide emissions can be found in the 126-page report released Monday by the International Energy Agency World Energy Outlook: Redrawing the Energy Climate Map. The report notes that global, energy-related carbon dioxide emissions rose 1.4 percent in 2012, 31.6 billion tons, the highest ever. The United States reduced its CO2 emissions by 200 million tons since 2011, Europe by 50 million tons and, while China increased its emissions by 300 million tons, it was the lowest annual increase in a decade as the country upped its investment in renewable sources of energy and efficiency measures.
A rise is still a rise, however, and if no action is taken, there is no way to keep the world from exceeding an accompanying temperature rise of 2C (3.6F), the internationally accepted target that scientists say will present problems, but ones that we can adapt to. Without action, we're headed for a 5.3C rise (that's 9F). Catastrophic.

Delay is denial.

Right now, according to the IEA report, by 2020 we will exceed by four billion tons the CO2 level scientists say is necessary for staying on a 2C trajectory .

http://www.dailykos.com/


No one here is denying that both the earth's temperature is rising and no one is denying that the CO2 in our atmosphere is rising.

We can debate about the degree of the above and if human have anything to do with it.

Personally I will be dead long before any bad stuff due to climate change effects my life, likely everyone on this thread can say the same.

Anyway, the report is out, click on the link and start calling it bullshit and denigrating the "science" and the "elite PHD's" behind the studies.

THEN, call Joe the Fuking Plumber when you have your coronary.
Bob Harrington

climber
Bishop, California
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
Regarding this year's snowpack in the Sierra Nevada, it's been an unusually meager year. The Calif. Dept. of Water Resources Bulletin 120 (Water Conditions in California) has this to say about statewide conditions:

"Hopes for some late season improvement in water supply were dashed when April precipitation turned out to be only half of normal and drier in the southern half of California. After a wet start in November and December, the four months of January through April were the driest such period of record, exceeding the previous low amount of 1977. The small residual 15 percent of average May 1 snowpack is the 3rd driest in 60 years; only 1977 and 1990 had less at this time.After a buildup to about 65% in mid-March, melting started early this spring with about 40 percent of average left on April 1. The bright spot is that reservoir storage overall is near normal for this date and can be used to augment reduced runoff for many of the State's water users in coming months."

Bulletin 120 is available at:

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/snow/bulletin120/index.html

Closer to home (Bishop, that is) Bulletin 120 reports that precipitation for the South Lahontan Region (incl. Owen River, Mojave River, Death Valley, Antelope Valley) received 40% of average precipitation for the period Oct. 1, 2012 through April 30, 2013, and that the forecast for runoff for April-July the Owens River Basin is 46% of normal. That's similar to LADWP's runoff forecast of 54% of normal for the period April 1, 2013 through March 31, 2014. To put that in context, since 1935, only 1960, 1961, 1977, and 1990 have had lower runoff than is forecast for 2013-14, and that is coming on the heels of a very dry 2012-13 at 57% of normal runoff. If next year is dry, we are really going to be in for some hard times.

Monolith, where'd you get those snowpack plots? Those are nice. I've been thinking about putting together plots like that for DWR snow pillows, but also putting quartiles on the plot to give a sense of the historical range for any given point in season.

Rick, where'd you get the idea that California has a total lack of reservoirs?

Dingus, Cadiz is back....it's backkk.....

USGS just came out with a report on groundwater depletion in the US. It's at:

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/gwdepletion.html
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:30pm PT
We can debate about the degree of the above and if human have anything to do with it.

It will be a short debate if the judges know anything about stable isotope geochemistry...
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
Bob, you can make those custom plots at water.ca.gov. Unfortunately, the site is extremely slow now. I'll edit in an exact url when it works.

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
since 1935, only 1960, 1961, 1977, and 1990 have had lower runoff than is forecast for 2013-14

Thanks for chiming in Bob. You clearly indicate that this event has indeed occurred several times before in the last century prior to the warming debate. Obviously countless times in the past prior to the events last century. Amazingly, the seasons following the dry events, the snowfall amounts were considerably more than the average amounts.


As far as my claim to lack of reservoirs. Since 1971, only six new reservoirs have been constructed in the state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dams_and_reservoirs_in_California

Since that period, the population and water demand in the state has tripled possibly even quadrupled. Makes no sense what so ever when events as you indicate occur. Especially if at 50% or more of that collected water goes towards agriculture that only 20% at of it remains here in California. Most is exported to other states and countries.

Just another reason that we need to start constructing and implementing desal stations along the entire US coast line. Not one in California that serves the people perse. Only industry and research.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
ED

* Droughts happen. They are a natural event. Nothing new. Please no one start stating that the current drought is due to AGW.

* Millions if not billions of gallons of snow melt and rain water goes untouched annually . Straight to the Pacific. More reservoirs need to be implemented to capture that wasted resource for the massive population within the state of CA.

* Start building Desal stations to supplement the water req's.

Clear enough for you ED.


BTW ED, I commend you on paying for you education outright from your sweat and blood. I also thank you for supporting the GI Bill. If it means anything to any of you, I got my BS in Cultural Geography via the GI Bill.

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