Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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raymond phule

climber
May 24, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
This is strange. I thought that Ed, Chiloe, Base and many more where the people that discussed a lot of science in this thread and that you, rick and the chief mostly run away or change the subject when the science is discussed.

So lets discuss the science.
raymond phule

climber
May 24, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
So what where your point when you showed the figure with the ice data? The figure clearly show that the ice sheet is shrinking. The rate of the shrinking also seems to accelerate when according to you the global warming have ended.
new world order2

climber
May 24, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
Obama signs 'Monsanto Protection Act' written by Monsanto-sponsored senator.

http://rt.com/usa/monsanto-bill-blunt-agriculture-006/


March Against Monsanto – May 25, 2013

http://occupy-monsanto.com/march-against-monsanto-may-25-2013/
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 24, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
When a leader drops the ball in morality or cannot explain their morality to start

Once again "Brucee", please show me/us where "morality" plays any part in science or evolution. You include morality into this issue, it instantly makes it a religion.

Nature/Evolution knows nothing about morality. Only the human ego and mind. You make this solely a human issue, it no longer pertains in the class of evolution nor science. Just plain human greed. No different than that of Big Oil and all them capitalistic entities you so dearly disdain. Doing so also endorses my stance that you are using science to promote your eco Utopianism agenda. Nothing more.

McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
May 24, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
Chief, you mentioned over-population and resources in an earlier post. You are on the right track. The more people we keep adding the more pressure there is to get them oil FAST. Rex Tillerson of Exxon likes to get people of the 3rd world hooked on oil before they even think of things like solar energy, which can be very cost effective and clean. Rex thinks denying people oil is a sin but he'll deny them solar technology any day of the week.

From what I have read of him, he would love for everyone in the 3rd world to have a gasoline generator rather than solar collectors, or any other alternative. He's the candyman. I suppose they could still have some electric motorcycles too! I hear the Zero aint too bad. I know....laugh at the Zero.....Make My Day! :>) At least they're still in business - that says something.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/2013/

I recommend the Stealthfighter for you.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 24, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
he would love for everyone in the 3rd world to have a gasoline generator rather than solar collectors

MACNAVY

I had to take a loan out to get solar. Big time big bucks. How in the world do you think that a family of six living on less than $1.00 a day, is going to afford solar. That there is just another example of the insanity and total unrealistic thinking you all have.

Please do share how you plan on making such alternative fuels affordable for 3rd world countries. When the majority of Americans can't afford to implement them.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
May 24, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
Do it with loans. They are much better off with a resource they can renew itself basically for free, rather than to keep buying fuel. Of course Rex would rather they be on they hook to keep buying what he has. The people either pay for the loan or pay for the gas. I'm sure there's a fair amount of this going on already. I'm also talking small scale as well as larger scale; like solar cookers versus burning twigs and dung. It starts small. I'm mostly pointing the basis of Exxon's argument and what they say. I like to think Exxon is there to help with the transition.

Good to hear you are doing SOLAR! Us too!

I was thinking this morning how Bishop could be a model Solar City and they could ship whatever water power they have on down to LA to help LA burn less coal. Bishop already sends all of it's water to LA.......or I mean LA takes it! How would you feel living in Bishop if you were dependent on coal? LA gets 40% of it's power from coal.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 24, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
Loans?? What kind of loans.

You ever been to Central Africa, Iraq, Pakistan, Eritrea etc? Most there can't afford the water and flour they require to live day to day on. HTF do you expect them to pay for, Solar?
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
May 24, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
There's lots of info out there - let your fingers do the walking. I just typed in 'solar loans for developing countries;
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/developing-countries-will-be-a-booming-solar-market-industry-panelists-say/

Money CAN be raised.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 24, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
Arguing with loonies... does nothing to advance the cause of climate change science.

Nothing. You all aren't 'getting the word out' because no one but yourselves is reading this. Why? You're entertaining mad men.

Enjoy. But don't kid yourselves.... you're not advancing your causes.

DMT
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
May 24, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
I don't see it that way Dingus. If you think the only people that see this stuff are players here - you are wrong. Besides, the Chief's a good guy. Hell, he's got a solar loan.

Which reminds me. Even if Bishop does not need solar because they have cheap hydro, solar can still be fed into the grid - everywhere. That's what me and my girlfriend do here in Seattle. We have lots of hydro too.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 24, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
Yeah I'm sure he's swole. But you're kidding yourself about signal to noise. Sorry.

DMT
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
May 24, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
OK - so I only convince myself. You underestimate how powerful that is. I'm pretty f*#king swole. It's bigger than that though - the world is on a course to change now - it's easy.

The Chief is doing solar. Are you?

Edit; apparently there are different definitions of swole. Swole = positive, energetic, moving ahead.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 24, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
You're swole too? Awesome!

You don't come across as having 'gone round the bend' however.

DMT
McCfly

climber
May 24, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
Maybe something like we have here in Massachusetts could be a option. Clearly a evolved and completely subsidized version of it but you get my point.

I don't know about where you all live but in Mass we have this program Masssaves. My guess is other states also have a similar program. If you are not familiar with the program pretty much the way it works it MassSaves sends a energy auditer into your home, they go through your entire home and then make suggestions as to how you could make your home more energy efficient. After that they go over the info with you and provide info in regard to rebates and incentives if you choose to have the work done.

For instance i need a new heating system and hot water heater. $4300 in rebates alone for this project.

My house having been built in 1923 has zero insulation. The bill for that is nearly $6000 MassSaves will reimburse 75% of that cost of insulation.

I am sure similar programs could be implemented or are available for solar. That is next for me. In the 3rd world i would see it as Exon/Mobil converting the average persons home/shack that uses very little energy to begin with to solar free of charge jus cuz they can and it makes sense.
bobinc

Trad climber
Portland, Or
May 24, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
Nocera at MIT has made progress on the "solar leaf" idea.

In America we have huge (relatively speaking) appetites for electricity. If you live in a shack in Borneo and only want to power a few lights and some small appliances, you can get a lot out of a little PV...
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
May 24, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
I'm outta here for now guys - keep it rolling!
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 24, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
You don't come across as having 'gone round the bend' however.

DMT ha!


Solar works ,i have it,connected to the grid,10 years now.
If you know math like we all know science here,it is a no brainer. Do you realize how much electricity has gone up in just 10 years?
Meanwhile,a fixed rate loan for solar that is now paid off.MATH.

November ,is the first time in 12 years i have bought dino fuel.I sold a diesel jetta and bought a vw vanagon that runs on fossil fuel.I only bought biodiesel,or made homebrews before.Until i get a diesel in that van i am buying bones.

Oh and by the way i have been a part time bicycle mechanic since 79,i commute,ride to mtb rides and pubbing ,rarely having to drive a vehicle.

So lets not just throw "hypocrite" around so openly inclusive around here,Chef.



I am moving on from the house i built 10 years ago,to another i am planning right now ,a micro house,1200 square foot ,super insulated,led lit,geo thermal heated, life simplification unit.The first thing that's coming with me other than my dogs are the solar panels.

DMT,I agree this may be a closed loop.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 24, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
Just popped in from a busy day in the field of playing gopher and cleanup man for my sons who are "running" the company, so i have no time to catch up. Anyway, this is the intended qualifier to my earlier post and post to follow later. We all know a certain curly haired scientist of quite considerable stature that frequents this thread. This man is a proponent of CAGW. If the science was unequivocally on the side of CAGW i'm sure he would not hesitate to squash my protest like a bug under boot, hell even if the science was all manufactured, as i assert, he could still take it and easily squash.The DOE is actively engaged in implementing, as much as politically possible,the IPCC agenda. Employees, direct or indirect, would be committing heresy if they didn't toe the line, so agreement with my assertions would not happen from a judicious employee. People like this could indirectly point the way and allow themselves to beaten by scientific or other convincing evidence however.I don't like, nor feel comfortable with, character assassination but the gentle appearance of it would be permissible in the no holds barred mock battle. Do i make my point?
McCfly

climber
May 24, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
Wilbeer:

Do you mind sharing with me how much this new structure is going to cost you. I am contemplating buying a parcel of land north of me in the middle of the woods. I want to build small and to get completely off the grid like 100%.

I am thinking a well, solar and living within the means of the what nature can provide with the technology we have.

Ow as of now i live a 1200sqft home 20 minutes outside Boston built in 1926. The tiny house is a beast. The heating system if original to the house. It cost $500 a month to heat 6 months a year. No insulation original windows blah blah blah. The house is otherwise a dream as it is a bungalow and in pristine original condition minus a new kitchen and bath.

Converting to gas this summer and from water to hot air. Doing tankless on demand water and insulating. Its a start i suppose.

Anyway tell me more about this new house...


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