Climate Change skeptics? [ot]


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Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Sep 4, 2013 - 12:32am PT
The Chief..I agree with you completely...Does that mean i'm a Noron...?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 4, 2013 - 12:48am PT
I'm patiently waiting for replies to my basic science queastions. Nobody thus far has been forthcoming. Why? If the very most basic parts of the climate system, like the planets overwhelmingly large oceanic heat sinks mechanisms are only vaguely known, what special classification of idiocy is needed to ascribe a 95% certainty to the range of climate sensitivity. Hell, they can't even get the "97% consensus" right through bogus manipulation and false attribution. Would any rational human being trust the direction of their future to such buffoons?

All hail The Chief! The Arctic sea ice melt season started way late, was very anemic, ended early, Alaska's statewide temps have been in a considerable downturn for a decade, spring began the latest in recorded modern history this year, interior temps are plummeting to record temps for this date and if the trend continues we are in for an early winter, looks like in could be another severe high northern lattitude winter worlwide again this year, much the same as the severe southern hemisphere winter of this season. Record cold temps in No. America outpaced heat temps 3 to 1 this year. The worlds ice volume is on the rise with both arctic and antarctic ice increases. Been a very low frequency year, so far, for both tornado's and hurricanes. All of these things are occuring during the solar max of cycle 24 which is just about ready to begin it's decline. Mend your winter wear and prepare for a string of cold winters boys and girls, for the ice man a cometh.

Trad climber
Western America
Sep 4, 2013 - 02:08am PT
Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts


Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 4, 2013 - 03:31am PT
I keep thinking since the 1800's modern man has also trapped or taken out SOO much water from its prior natural habitat. All the billions stored up in pools, toilets, septic tanks, engines,
lakes etc etc. This has got to cause some type of Repercussion! Possible with the lack of ground water, Mother Earth must draw from frozen reserves? Just a theory

Edit: question for BASE, don't they also pump water in when they pump oil out?

Social climber
An Oil Field
Sep 4, 2013 - 08:24am PT

Fresh water is normally quite shallow. Rarely does it exceed 1000 feet unless it is in a mountain basin with an active hydrodynamic recharge. You don't need to worry about that except the shallow part.

Below fresh water you find saltwater. It gets really salty in places, way over 100,000ppm chlorides.

Oil and gas reservoirs all have a thin coating of saltwater lining the pores. This is a capillary pressure thing.

Most oil and gas wells make some saltwater along with the oil and gas. It is separated out right at the tank battery with a thing called...a separator. The oil goes into the oil tank, the gas goes down the sales pipeline, and the saltwater goes into a saltwater tank. Whenever your water tank gets full, you call the disposal guys, who operate commercial saltwater disposal wells. It is injected into a porous zone that either already contains saltwater, or an oil or gas reservoir that is pressure depleted.

I'm going to a seminar today about the relationship between injection wells and earthquakes. It has long been known that injection wells CAN cause earthquakes, but they are small and it is impossible to predict.

We have an interesting case here in Oklahoma where it looks like a bunch of disposal wells caused a Paleozoic fault to slip, giving us a few hefty, for Oklahoma, earthquakes. Fracking isn't a problem. It is the disposal wells, which are located in all producing areas.

In the old days they let that saltwater just run down the creeks, and it killed every plant and animal that it touched. Almost all of the damage has repaired itself, but it took decades. It is actually worse to get a saltwater spill on your land than an oil spill. You just dig up the oily dirt and haul it off. If it is a little one, bacteria will clean it up in a few years.

Saltwater damage is bad news. It is impossible to fix, and if it gets into the groundwater, you are really screwed. In the big producing states there are attorneys who specialize in this stuff, and a saltwater spill can take a small company down. So we try not to spill a drop of saltwater.

I know. You ask what time it is and I tell you how a watch works.

The only time you inject water to improve production is with a waterflood. That is where you take a depleted field and inject saltwater in some of the wells. The water sweeps up a lot of oil and you can make as much as the field made from primary, although they are expensive to operate. I love waterfloods.

I've been working for 24 hours straight and am a little jittery on coffee.

I don't think that I can blink. Should I call 9-1-1?

Social climber
An Oil Field
Sep 4, 2013 - 08:42am PT
Even during the Cretaceous hot house there is evidence for occasional cold spells and "some" glaciation. This is a complex system.

I see some of the posters tend to like the "Real Science" website, which currently is all over Syria and Obama and Homeland Security buying 1.5 billion bullets and article 21.

He still bashes climate science, but with guys like these, one conspiracy is never enough.

You absolutely HAVE to visit this site and see where guys go find the chart de jour....

It is the worst "science" available. He has a woody over climate science for some reason. Must have been too many Limbaugh droning lectures.

SF bay area
Sep 4, 2013 - 08:56am PT

Hilarious. Good one, Chief.

You hand drew a line and you couldn't even start in 1993. A least squares fit line is what you want, but it won't tell the same lie you are showing.

Let me do some simple math for you, Chief: 2013 - 20 = 1993

SF bay area
Sep 4, 2013 - 09:32am PT
Hey Chief,

We have these things called computers. They can draw a least squares fit line between two points. Even a spreadsheet can do it. Give it a try some time.

SF bay area
Sep 4, 2013 - 09:39am PT
The contrarians can't even get short term predictions right.


The Granite State.
Sep 4, 2013 - 09:58am PT
Me too.

But it's spelled malarkey. Some people are too stupid to spell correctly. That's what I call a red flag. If you can't use proper grammar, your opinion means nothing. Grammar is the most basic of communication tools. Fail at grammar, fail at credibility.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Sep 4, 2013 - 10:10am PT
[Quote]We have an interesting case here in Oklahoma where it looks like a bunch of disposal wells caused a Paleozoic fault to slip, giving us a few hefty, for Oklahoma, earthquakes. Fracking isn't a problem. It is the disposal wells, which are located in all producing areas.[/quOte]

One could say the same about uranium fission reactors and lots of other things. Saying fracking waste water wells are the problem and not the fracking itself seems at bit.... Big oil.


Gym climber
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2013 - 10:41am PT
Just checking in to see if The Chief tried to earn his $100.

Here's what I got:

The papers that Chiloe posted an hour or so do so for me.

That's it. I'm left to figure out what Chiloe's links "do so", and how they back up a claim that The Chief made. Interesting, this gives us a clue to how The Chief thinks (or doesn't).

I try not to feed the loud-mouthed troll, but the amount of noise that comes out of that wind-hole makes it tough to look through this thread to find what thoughtful folks have to say.

The Chief, do us a favor and look up the word "hiatus." You might be surprised at what you find.

After that, tell us how, in the middle of this hiatus, the world temps have registered the highest ever recorded (and please be mindful that the 'hiatus" occurred during the record keeping).

Trad climber
Portland, Or
Sep 4, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
The Chief must be wheeling a huge payload into position...

Remember one of the Army's unofficial mottos (perhaps applies to the Navy, too): "You can die but you can't quit."

SF bay area
Sep 4, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
ďTHE UNís climate change chief, Rajendra Pachauri, has acknowledged a 17-year pause in global temperature rises, confirmed recently by Britainís Met Office.

No he didn't. That's a Robert Murdoch reporter making stuff up.

Let's see the actual quote from Rachauri, Chief.

You won't find it, because there has not been a 17-year pause.

Trad climber
Portland, Or
Sep 4, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
C'mon, Chief-- Trenberth has said repeatedly his statement was taken out of context. (He was bemoaning the state of model development vs human-influenced climate change itself.)

Von Storch and Curry are not fair dealers in any sense of the term.

What else ya got (other than cartoon graphics you don't understand)?

Trad climber
Portland, Or
Sep 4, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
You wouldn't believe it even if I told you (and others already have upthread).

Your whole effort to harness science to your position is laughable; you should just stick to the doom and gloom/hardman approach if you want people to take you seriously at all.

Sep 4, 2013 - 01:16pm PT
I did at least get that the actual value is .01 wm-2, rather than the .8 wm-2 i faultily remembered.

rick sumner this was pointed out to you multiple times but you chose to ignore it instead of taking a few minutes to look it up yourself.

Social climber
Sep 4, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
Why does the chief or other deniers care one way or another? I seriously doubt they are captains of industry with any skin in the game. Even if their worst regulation nightmares came true nothing would happen to them.

I don't know crap about science but it's just common sense that putting less pollutants into water, air or atmosphere is better than putting in more pollutants.

Trad climber
Portland, Or
Sep 4, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
Yep - my "bias" is to go with what seems to be the bulk of the evidence that we are headed toward much more chaotic weather due to various forcing mechanisms that include accelerated atmospheric concentrations of CO2 (and other gases) that are associated with man's activities over the last 150 years or so.

Guilty as charged.

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Sep 4, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
"That quote comes from Kevin Trenberth, a lead author of the 2001 and 2007 IPCC reports."

Is Kevin one of the people that gets slandered here?
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