Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 9, 2013 - 12:08am PT
Coz what ive been saying all along due to those ice cores you mention, show glacial melting under WAY LESS CO2 than today. That is what im saying.. Im saying there are MANY inconsistencies with models, opinions and even falsification of various flagships of GW like polar bears for instance.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 9, 2013 - 12:46am PT
you didn't read my post way upthread.... I used HadCrut4... you get much the same answer...

Straight from the Mothers teats.

HadCrut 4 below. See the BLACK line on the graph. It is going DOWN both in the NH and GLOBALLY. DOWN ed. As of 2003 they are going DOWN.

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/

RSS Below. NO WARMING as of 1999. None. ZERO.

http://www.ssmi.com/msu/msu_time_series.html




Again, obviously ED you do not tie your own flies let alone fly fish. Either Single Hand nor Skagit.

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 9, 2013 - 12:58am PT
Coz - I got a question for you. You know that video I posted back there of Glenn Beck bobbing and weaving with Katie Couric...... Would you characterize his behavior as cowardly? I would. I don't know how much you lurk here but all these guys demonstrate exactly the same evasion, deliberately obscure reasoning or outright deception in spades. Maybe it isn't cowardice but if it quacks like a duck it probably is if you ask me. If they can demonstrate that I'm wrong I'll gladly eat my words cuz I'd much prefer that they arn't cowards.

I realize the term is pretty loaded but if you can think of another term that describes the behavior with equal accuracy, what would it be? You can describe that as being an as#@&%e if you like, but until a more accurate term comes up, it'll stick.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jun 9, 2013 - 08:13am PT
Would you characterize his behavior as cowardly?

The most cowardly behavior here is that of calling others names from behind a computer screen. People are going to disagree with you. So what? Having such a hissy fit about it just reveals that, in some way, you are unstable. Joe Hedge too.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 9, 2013 - 08:35am PT
The Trout and I entertain one another. A symbiotic relationship actually. They seem to be more observant of reality then most modern humans. They deal/exist with their environment in a practical and accepting manner. They do not attempt to control nor change it. Not one bit. They exist with it. Cohesively.

The data speaks for itself. The warming has stalled. It is going to do as it has millions of times before, regress. Cyclic. Amazing how it even appears to be like a heartbeat. That can't be can now. No way. Not in your world of science. Appalling.

Vostok Ice Core Data Set 1




Got some new tie patterns. Off to go play with some Brookies at 11 or so K'.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 9, 2013 - 09:28am PT
Dropline - you can answer the same question, would you characterize Glenn Beck as a coward as demonstrated? Its a fair question as are they all. If you can then you can at least see a glimmer of truth in what I claim.

As for your statement what do you want me to do? Go up to Wassilla and knock on his door? At least I provide my own name.

Perhaps I made a mistake in not making a likely critical distinction as I have before. I am accusing him ( amongst others) of intellectual cowardice. We all know that I can also back it up with evidence.
I completely realize how loaded a term it is but as I asked Coz can you think of a better one ? I am not claiming they are moral cowards or even physical cowards as I can guess they can demonstrate that they are not, and as they no doubt already have throughout their lives.

I repeat, if you bob and weave like Glenn Beck you demonstrate cowardice, perhaps just limited to intellectual cowardice but cowardice none the less. You can accuse me of the same or other things ( like being an as#@&%e) but in the end you need to support it with proof. Intellectual courage or lack of it is integral to this discussion in particular. If it was a thread on baseball, not so much. Go ask the high brows on the Religion thread if you don't believe me.

Its pretty funny when you think of it. Everybody everyday accuses The Chief of being a bombastic belligerent blowhard and it hardly raises a dry fart. But if you dare to say the c word hold onto your hat. Yeah I know, it's "hitting below the belt" but the problem is is that when we have forbidden subjects, topics that are off limits, that is typically where the truth hides and determining ( or at least seeking) the truth is what this thread is all about.

So to be clear I accuse the whole denier crowd (including lurkers and beyond) here of intellectual cowardice and I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong. They demonstrate it every day as far as I can tell and if you like I can detail it with relish.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jun 9, 2013 - 09:36am PT
Chief, did you miss the massive CO2 spike at the end of your last graph? Do you think the earth's natural systems have fully adjusted to that disturbance?

Thanks for showing the correlation between CO2 and temp.

Has the ocean heat content leveled off?

Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jun 9, 2013 - 09:57am PT
Bruce, you need not go knock on his door, just make your points civilly. As for Glenn Beck, he's a buffoon and I pay no attention to what he has to say one way or the other.

I'm going OUTISIDE. Have fun here in your virtual cubicle.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 9, 2013 - 10:02am PT
Randisi - I disagree. It may seem moronic but it is a process that reveals at least some truths. Personally I have no illusions of changing some minds but I think it is very worthwhile to show what those minds consist of. Besides, the alternative is to continue to allow through acquiescence for those minds to continue to rule. Thats how you get a place like North Carolina.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 9, 2013 - 10:14am PT
I go back and forth on that Bruce because I think your loyal opposition is more interested in mockery and trolling than honest dialogue.

That said the material posted to this thread by Chiloe, Ed and many others, as well as the patient explanations of the science, is very educational.

But I can't stand those heathens mocking my priests!!!11111

DMT
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 9, 2013 - 10:31am PT
But Dingus, If I can't get them to engage in honest debate by civil means, what else have I got in my tool box but trolling and mockery?


I think it does matters much to most everyone Randisi otherwise you wouldn't be here anymore than anyone else. It all boils down to an ethos of leaving the place in as good shape or better for your kids, not worse. I think Rick, Ron and I can agree on that, along with many other basic moral values. Our image of what that looks like may differ and I can respect that. What I don't respect is a refusal to inform your policy (values) with the best method known for understanding the reality of the physical world - science.

We can argue til the cows come home about policy but there is no significant argument about the science. The only reason that there is is due to intellectual dishonesty.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 9, 2013 - 11:39am PT
Well gentlemen the tone is decidedly more civil this morning, very good. DMT, the science is not at all settled, in fact it is mostly manufactured and yes many people on our realist side believe deeply of what i just said. Randisi we may be blowing hot air and not changing any of the more stubborn minds but this argument feeds our addiction.Anyway the sun has long since arisen here in alaska and below is a link to where its behavior is heading.Bruce you hit the nail squarely on the head with your statement that we all want to leave the place as, or better ,than we found it for our kids.Good morning my friends.

http://nextgrandminimum.wordpress.com
raymond phule

climber
Jun 9, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
Where can I find similar graphs for other areas and altitudes?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 9, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
You are a little behind the times with your pick for propaganda Joe. Im as conservative as they come, also been using florescents for much longer than they've been mandated. We are on to using LED's quite a bit now. The average home today uses 60% less energy per s.f. than in 1990, we shoot for 70-75%. It is all about controlling consumption for affordability. Waste not, want not.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 9, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
Rick, Ron, and The Chief, are trolling, or are completely snowed by big money.

I don't know for sure, Coz, but from what I can tell all three of those guys are far from well off financially, and don't have any big money coming their way!

Trolling?

Well, yes, the Chief readily admits to trolling and considers it good personal entertainment, he has said he intentionally does so just to get emotional responses, he likes playing here.

I suspect Ron and Rick are not trolling but honestly believe what they post and are absolutely not amendable to being convinced otherwise, regardless of any mountains of opposing proof and facts.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 9, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
Coz,, really? It IS a fact that arctic ice disappeared inf far less CO2 than today, which meant it built up again as well under increasing levels. This does not fit into the GW science very well.

As for the false flagships they have waived, yes polar bears are one of them and have been grossly under estimated in numbers an vigor for quite some time, and even the feds have admitted they were put on the endangered list because of "what MIGHT happen with GW"....Silly men attempting to predict the future of the globe of which most is an anomaly to them. they thought the reef fish would flounder under increased CO2 yet eh fish had a whole udder direction in mind.. There are many more "anomalies" involved in GW that have gone un-answered here.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 9, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
A red herring? Coz, that IS THE TUNA of the issue, how the earth reacts to CO2. The blame glacial ice thaws on it when in fact it may have little or nothing to do with it of HISTORY has any play in it. If they use false flagships, does that not reflect a certain amount of scrutiny for the rest of it?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 9, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
Does any here know anything about noctilucent clouds and specifically why they would be presenting themselves in lower latitudes than usual this year? Or anything about earths geomagnetic field and atmospheric effects See links below.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/07jun_nics/

http://phys.org/news/2012-10-extremely-reversal-geomagnetic-field-climate.html
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jun 9, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
Ed:
...however, there are many sites that provide local temperature time series... Chiloe often uses them in plots (look up thread)

A good general source for long-term, quality-controlled weather station data is the US Historical Climatology Network,
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/epubs/ndp/ushcn/ushcn_map_interface.html

The Arctic melt season is kicking into gear this month, lots of eyes watching the ice to see what happens after last year's record-shattering attrition.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 9, 2013 - 08:44pm PT
Here is a correction for my noctilucent cloud link. Very interesting critters, usually associated with a solar minimum, but this should be the max year of the eleven year schwabe cycle.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/aim/news/early-nlcs-2013.html
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