Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 8, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
For someone who disparages science as you do, you certainly like to present your science a lot.

How you you explain this dichotomy? Were you ever dropped on your head as a child for instance?
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 8, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
raymond phule

climber
Jun 8, 2013 - 03:47pm PT

Wrong. Lindzen did not utilize Millions of of the US Tax Payers dollars to come up with his "prediction".

So what? He was completely wrong and your side of the argument like to link to his works because you like his conclusions. I am neither sure who have sponsored his tenure at MIT but I believe that the US tax payers have also paid him some money.


Hansen and his NASA GISS did. For well over 30 years. Thus his are indeed the worst and most deceptive of all models.

The model made a prediction 25 years ago about the future climate. So they obviously didn't do anything with that prediction for 30 or 25 years. Today's models are also much better.


He thieved the money. Made the models that are completely bogus. Then ran off with the plunder. Retired with nothing to show of it. Nothing.

What did you do? Treated and maybe killed some foreigners and run away with a pension?

Just for curiosity is the weather models that is used to predict the weather also completely bogus? Those models have never predicted the weather correctly with fifteen decimals even 1 hour in advance but they usually give good information at least a couple of days in advance.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 8, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
Eureka! I just found the perfect christmas present for The Chief!

Good news for your cause Huff an Chuff. It turns out denial of reality is necessary for advanced intelligence to persevere! Check it out:


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/is-denial-the-secret-of-humanitys-success/article12428138/



Here is a sweet little exerpt:

Many animals show some self-awareness. “We’ve got all these very smart animals and birds that are right on the brink of understanding,” Dr. Varki says. Dolphins, chimpanzees, orangutans, elephants and maybe some birds can recognize themselves in mirrors.

Some even react to another’s death. They may mourn that a relative or companion is no longer there, but they don’t appreciate that another mind was there and has gone. For along with the advanced ability to understand others, Dr. Varki and Prof. Brower argue, comes the crippling knowledge that one will die.

They speculate that over the course of evolutionary history, many individual elephants, apes, dolphins or early humans might have made it to that point, and then become so traumatized by the knowledge that they died out before passing along their genes. Perhaps that meant falling into deep depression or hiding away in the woods.

And so comes the second necessary breakthrough – the ability to deny reality, including the reality of death: I know that I’m going to die but carry on as though I’m immortal, meanwhile spreading my DNA around like nobody’s business.

The fusion of these two developments spread like wildfire through the several thousand anatomically modern humans who lived, say, 100,000 years ago. This mind-over-reality theory is one explanation for why we are the only surviving human species, Dr. Varki said. (The book describes the process as a kind of “intellectual arms race.”)

Even today, Dr. Varki speculates, it might be that one cause of depression is that a person loses the ability to deny death, making life seem futile. After facing the hell of reality straight on, the depressed person cannot cope any more.

Like the radical notion that the Earth revolves around the sun, that species evolve through natural selection or that the Earth’s crust is made up of moving tectonic plates, this one seems questionable at this point in its life cycle. Those theories were eventually verified, but there is no way to prove this one yet, Dr. Varki admits.

But while the book explains the value of denial, Dr. Varki’s driving concern is for us to temper it with a dose of reality.

His worry is that we are using our powers of denial to ignore what he calls “local climate destabilization,” also known as global warming.

Most types of denial, he says – about high national debt loads, or eating too much red meat or smoking cigarettes or refusing to wear seatbelts – aren’t fatal to the entire species. Climate destabilization, like a nuclear holocaust, could be.

In fact, if his theory is correct, it might also explain why we haven’t found intelligent life on other planets: Perhaps life there evolved much as it did here – depending on creatures that became fully aware of other minds and their own mortality, developed the denial mechanism and then blithely wiped themselves out, taking everything else along for the ride.

Denial, our secret weapon, could turn out to be too much of a good thing.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 8, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
The model made a prediction 25 years ago about the future climate. So they obviously didn't do anything with that prediction for 30 or 25 years. Today's models are also much better.

The Excuses, oooopsss, I mean "Smoothing" prevail. Fact is the modelling sucks. Bigtime. Farce and complete waste of millions and soon to be billions. In all respects. They are going to get worse as the current cooling trend continues and the "blue" line keeps going down.






This one takes the vanilla pudding for the day. Rick, Ron, Blue etal, you should watch then most certainly will laugh your asses off. Oh the irony.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 09:09pm PT
Excellent find Chief. I am still LMAO. Even the mindless zombies should be able to relate to these videos, although i think their botox treatments will not allow them to laugh.

Bruce, i said under the "cloak of communism", not real communism. Look behind the cloak and what do you find-some of the wealthiest people on earth, some of planets largest corporations, and plenty of megalomaniacs.I pity the poor "believers", once their role as foot soldiers of ignorance is complete the machine chews up and spits out their sorry asses.Watch Chiefs videos, look at the graphs. We have hope of reclaiming you from slippery walls of the abyss.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 8, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
Chuffs graphs and video are a waste of time.

But back to the question:

would you not also agree that there are other socio-economic systems that may also threaten the American way - such as Corporatism?


I couldn't help noticing that you made oblique reference to my question, yet you did not answer my question. Whether you fear communism or "a cloak of communism" isn't the question, and you have to wonder why anyone would wish to bamboozle an american by disguising anything as communism....

Come on buddy. I know you can do it. Look at the question. Start out with a yes or no.

As a guideline, consider this video and how if Glenn Beck was an honest man, he could have answered the question:

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
Hedge you're back. Did you get out on the road for an expedition or were you temporarily banned? Anyway i was beginning to miss your simple minded redundancy.

Bruce- read the last post again, i believe i answered you. You should pick up a paper or electronic copy of a book called Eco Fascists by a gal from your neck of the woods by the name of Elizabeth Nickson. I've experienced first hand many of the insanities she describes and Ron verified the forestry and water issues she talks of.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 8, 2013 - 09:59pm PT
No you did not. Are you saying that eco fascism = corporatism as we know it in america?

The questions I ask can be answered yes or no, if that helps and it should.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jun 8, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
The ideal of the everyman getting a fair shake and entitlements enough to live in comfort is the pablum being fed to the masses as "socialism or communism". Many people in the western world of today have traded their very souls for mere "promise of trinkets", which when enough bait is swallowed by the masses will be replaced by the sad reality of fascism. It is a dangerous world out there.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jun 8, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 8, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
Rick. I've said it before and I will say it again. You are a coward. If you cannot engage in a debate in a respectful and honorable manner where you provide pertinent and direct answers to perfectly reasonable questions you are a COWARD. You display and demonstrate it.

I think it is pretty well established here that this describes the bulk of the deniers - Chuff, Rick, Ron. I'm not sure about Werner as he never even pretends to engage in debate as all he does is snipe from the side lines. Regardless, hurling insults back and forth is not a big deal. Dishonesty is. The whole pile of you are intrinsically dishonest and immature and not worthy of any amount of trust or time so adios. I remember Daryl hanging around with some sketchy characters but you take the cake.

Hedge, I hope you are right that these turds are a dying breed but I suspect not entirely. In any population there is always about 20 to 30 % that are authoritarian personalities and are by definition loyal to ideology first, which means reality must conform to their ideology, not the other way around.

This article describes them perfectly. So far these 3 morons and their army have been calling the shots in your policy. Its up to the rest of us whether we let such a small and obnoxious self interested group control the agenda. The same thing is going on up here in Canada but you guys are the supposed leaders of the free world. Good luck.



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/technology/science/is-denial-the-secret-of-humanitys-success/article12428138/
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
First im not a chickenshit then im a coward. You are all over the board Bruce. Get a grip, both you and the Hedge must have missed your hormone shots. Oh well, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink.

Once again- Skeptical of what? Something that has not and will not happen? The graphic is cute, but it overshoots the observed increase by at least .2 c. We are now trending downward. Read the work of Livingston and Penn for a clue of where we are going.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 8, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
your perception is lacking. I indicated that the others were chickensh#t. That dosn't exempt you by default. You had an opportunity to demonstrate respect and honesty and you blew it. What can I say?

Either way congratulations on your 20 years of policy success. You have much to be proud of! If it was only a football game, which you clearly think it is, no biggie.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 8, 2013 - 10:52pm PT
Sorry Rick. But in their cases, they have determined that the water is not water atal. Just a complete figment of your imagination. The science says so. Thus it is. Reality no longer is a part of the equation Rick. Just the computer models and the output data science. Screw what the RSS and Surface Obs indicate. They are not real. Not one bit.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 8, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
Hey Bruce,, congrats on sounding like schmoe hedge..Quite the low mark to aspire towards. Perhaps yo tu should "mate"..

and the polar bears -penguins and owls are still partying down on the money you all spent to their "cause"...
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 8, 2013 - 11:36pm PT
Negative on both counts ED.

1. You obviously know NOTHING when it comes to fly fishing ED. You see, it's not about catching fish. Nope. Anyone can do that with worms or a grenade. It's about the fish catching you. Big difference. No advantage what so ever ED. None. That is the beauty of it. No one wins nor loses. It just is. Even if not fish is hook up.

2. The gif Monolith posted is based on GISS BS data. NOT on RSS and HadCrut 3 or 4. Incorporate them into the equation and you have a whole different ball game. But of course you will not do that. It shows the fallacy of all the modelling. Talk about cherry picking to ones side. Picking is indeed your game.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jun 8, 2013 - 11:50pm PT
Funny how the Chief only wants to go back to mid-1997. How about going back to 1996?

Classic cherry picking.

His choice to start with mid-1997 was made because that gave him the result he wanted. That’s a practice called “cherry-picking.”


rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 9, 2013 - 12:03am PT
Let me answer Coz. First off nobody here takes much offense of predictable old Hedge and especially of stubborn old Bruce.

Second it is not "settled science" at all. The temps have plateaued or decreased slightly over the last decade despite a rapid increase in global atmospheric CO2 content. See the first link below about the temporal correlation between CO2 and temps in the ice core record. The second link blows the idea of climate change consensus out of the water and also has links to opposition papers. You should look at The Chiefs video posted just above for the sad comedy of the situation. Welcome to the neighborhood, it is anything but peaceful and "settled".


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ice-core-data-help-solve


http://www.petitionproject.org
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