Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 3, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
Third attempt Rick, simple questions. Please answer them:

1. Are the oceans a part of the globe?

2. Is there a so-called "pause" or "stall" or "hiatus" in the rising ocean heat content?

3. When you keep quoting this: "Then temperatures stayed fairly flat", what temperatures DO YOU THINK the authors referring to? Is it Air/atmosphere? Ocean surface? Entire ocean? Please be specific.


bobinc

Trad climber
Portland, Or
Sep 3, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
More glacier recession answers (there are so many):

Eliot Glacier, Mt. Hood

Palisade Glacier

Lyell Glacier
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 3, 2013 - 08:44pm PT
http://nrmsc.usgs.gov/research/glacier_retreat.htm

Just spent a lot of time in Montana.
Credit: wilbeer


Your right,your right ,your always right.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 3, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
It is all about you
Credit: wilbeer
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 3, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
In the interest of civility ( a good natured brawl anyway) let me start by asking Ed- How was your climbing at the Leap, what routes did you do and how were you feeling? I don't venture there much anymore, the last two times climbing with Norwegian and before that free solo only during weekdays and with harness, long slings and a few protection peices if i get at all nervous. These days i like the solitude of remote unclimbed crags and non serious routes.

Anyway, getting back to my question of other learned men posing on this thread, perhaps Ed can answer. The Earth radiates from the core to the global surface something like 0.8 watts per sq. meter. What happens to this heat in the ocean depths, the deep ( below several thousand feet is uniformly 3-4 degrees c over the entire globe, The pressures are incredible, the oceanic turnover ( complete mixing of water from surface to bottom) something like 1000's of years, so does this slow steady heat buildup somehow initiate the turnover, and if there are in fact turnovers of different ocean basins ocurring all the time on different times and frequencies how can Trenberth's missing heat sink downward against such an upwelling?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 3, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
I only keep smaller trout ,because they are better eating.
Camping and climbing and only fishing for food.

4 breeds of trout on one Adams my dad tied.
From small creeks in the Alpine.
It is all about you.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 3, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
How do you cook them Wibeer- a little wild onion, butter and garlic? Looks tasty for the end of a long day of mountain play.

About the heat and oscillations, and your climbing Ed?
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 3, 2013 - 09:16pm PT
Retreat of the Athabasca glacier
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redbeardmathpirate/sets/72157621831481716/
http://www.global-greenhouse-warming.com/melting-athabasca-glacier.html
http://icecubicle.net/2009/10/21/athabasca-glacier-rapid-retreat/
http://www.calgaryherald.com/technology/Glacier+retreat+affects+stream+ecology+water+resources+with+video+photos/7406416/story.html
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 3, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
Credit: wilbeer
With a couple of brats and beer.


Your right ,your right ,your always right.
Spitzer

climber
Sep 3, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
The Earth radiates from the core to the global surface something like 0.8 watts per sq. meter.

rick sumner, why do you keep posting the wrong number when it is so easy to look up the correct one?

"The mean heat flows of continents and oceans are 65 and 101 mW m−2, respectively, which when areally weighted yield a global mean of 87 mW m−2 and a global heat loss of 44.2 10^12 W, an increase of some 48% over earlier estimates." http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/93RG01249/abstract
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 3, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
"Blasphemy" ha.
A buddy is from Wisconsin and he insisted,he packed in 8 brats,frozen,we ate them for 4 days.It was really damn good.
I always bring a clove of garlic and a lemon when i fish,and that skillet.
Credit: wilbeer
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 3, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
Well thanks Ron for the answer. I'm beginning to wonder the true extent of the unknowns compared to the knowns of climate science. Ed evaded answering a couple of what should be simple questions if these climate science guys knew their ass from a hole in the ground. It is apparent they haven't a clue how the system as a whole works as there is more unknowns than known. Also the data collection, as MD has stated, is not up to anywhere near what oit should be to make any definitive analysis other than endless and biased manipulation by graphics. Do you have any answers Ed, and please don't resort to the stupidity of answering that it is beyond our comprehension because we are not practitioners of advanced science which has become more akin to voodoo than the science of old.

Looked great Wilbeer, will have to look you up for some campcookery if ever i venture into your region.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 3, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
http://www.thepiratescove.us/2013/09/03/if-all-you-see-879/
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Sep 3, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
The Chief, I think you should blow off this thread.... and focus on some of these skills :)

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 3, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
Can't believe I missed Chief's source for his graphs...Tisdale. LOLZ! Chief, why don't you tell us how Tisdale arrives at his trend lines?

This should be particularly entertaining if Tisdale's past is any indication (where he was caught "eyeballing" trend lines rather than doing any actual data analysis).
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 3, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
Well Ed, right up front in the abstract it states there is a lack of data, need deep ocean observatory, can't seperate the source of neutrinos. So the rest is at best a guesstimate.

Does the ocean not have many of the same components as the atmosphere- H2O, CO2, Nitrogen? Besides the commonly accepted surface boundaries doesn't the atmosphere extend into the humus and below into the earth, doesn't it extend into the surface waters, and can't the same be said of earth and water extending into atmosphere? Bear with me, i'm going somewhere.What is the best guesstimate that you are aware of for cause of oceanic oscillations, during a negative oscillation doesn't the sea surface lower- even infintesimally, during a positive phase oscillation doesn't the sea surface rise- even infinitesimally, is there precise mechanisms in place to measure atmospheric boundary layers and changes in volume? What the hell did you climb anyway? There is no trip report, were you too stoned on acid out on the playa to confess what you had wrought.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 3, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
chief has an extra chromosome 21?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 3, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
"What the hell did you climb anyway? "

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2216989&msg=2217014#msg2217014
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 3, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
Spare me the amateur psychoanalysis Bruce- it's getting a little old and stale. Anyway i asked the maestro some valid questions that should be readily answerable, if not common knowledge of a "mature and certain science", and he referred me to a certain table in a whole paper of guesstimation. I did at least get that the actual value is .01 wm-2, rather than the .8 wm-2 i faultily remembered. The CAGW community is expecting IPCC to double down on the certainty of the consensus and a climate sensitivity still well above what even Ed was acknowledging a few months back. Anyway my questions are just a few of the thousands that must be accurately understood, explained, quantified before there can be anything other than bias reported by " the consensus". Surely, you can understand this Bruce.
skypenguin

Sport climber
Bishop
Sep 3, 2013 - 11:33pm PT
I agree that a government top down solution to slow business and cut back individual carbon use will never work. We need innovation to solve this solution with a market approach. When we can produce carbon free energy cheaper than fossil fuels then the economics will solve our carbon problem.

Here's a really neat TED talk about smaller scale and safer nuclear Fission.
http://www.ted.com/talks/taylor_wilson_my_radical_plan_for_small_nuclear_fission_reactors.html

Another longer term program is Nuclear Fusion. I'm not talking about tin-foil hat alien stuff. There are tens of billions being spent on working prototypes right now. It's about the same price as fossil fuels but will be carbon neutral. The Pulse fusion reaction is a really neat example.
Check out this video from Google's engineering talks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhKB-VxJWpg
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