Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Sep 3, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
FM, I try to post key paragraphs in addition to abstracts with many of the articles I cite, for just that reason. The reason for paywalls is simple economics -- like all other kinds of publishers, academic publishers need money to stay in business. They get most of that from library subscriptions, which they could not sell (and hence would go out of business) if they posted the articles for free.

It is usually possible for a researcher to pay some fee upfront to the journal, to make their article public. Of course that money has to come from somewhere too. We *could* include publication fees in each grant proposal, but the tradeoff is they aren't cheap, and can eat substantially into the money available to actually do the research. If you have a large grant and few papers the bite might not be very deep, but otherwise that's not the case. Also, many papers are finally published well after the grant period has ended; many others describe work done on a shoestring, with little or no grant support.

If you write an author and ask politely, he or she will often send you a pdf of the paper.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Sep 3, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
I've e-mailed Springer Verlag, Nature,

weird... never got those emails. I wasn't flipping you the bird. Honestly. Good post FM.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 3, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
2012,hottest year on record in the US,
shipping lines opened in the arctic,
US snowfall average lowest recorded,
ocean levels rising,
species relocating,
permafrost receding worldwide,
glaciers gone,
more extreme weather events,I can continue.

Yep its a Hiatus ,and it is all about you Chef.
Go ahead call me names.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Sep 3, 2013 - 07:22pm PT
As usual, Chief (Rick Poedtke) is screaming so loud he can't read. He not only missed what Nielsen-Gammon actually said, but hasn't noticed how many times similar points have been made by other people on this thread. For example, last April:

One thing the "warming slowdown" declarations (like the Economist's) often glide past is deep ocean heat content, which vastly exceeds the atmosphere's and has kept on rising.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=970221&msg=2108382#msg2108382
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 3, 2013 - 07:24pm PT
“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change. ”
― Stephen Hawking
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
Is Rick Poedtke really a person, or just an angry robot? Seriously, I can't imagine pure iron being as dense as that entity.

@ The Chief, in all your hundreds of posts, do you think you've made a single valid point? From where I sit, every single one of your points has been refuted. Yet you keep screaming and screaming.

Don't you ever get tired of being at the butt end of every exchange?

And boy, would I be surprised if you proved me wrong. I got $100 here that says you can't do it.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 3, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
It is all about you.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Sep 3, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
I would have believed that a few years ago, Chiloe, but the science publishing biz is run by genuine kleptocrats. You reviewers need the rally your comrades and dust off the guillotine:

The Interwebs are certainly shaking things up and will do more, as they have to other kinds of publishing, music and movies. Not sure where it's all headed, and I'm sure there are some undeserving kleptocrats somewhere but also many hard-working folks who just wanna keep their jobs. Anyway, what I described is the current system, under which publications are not free -- somebody has to pay.

While we're waiting for the revolution, it's still a good move to try asking the author for a copy.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 3, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
Arapahoe Glacier,Colorado
Dinwoody Glacier,Wyoming

Two I have witnessed.

And please continue with name calling.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 3, 2013 - 07:47pm PT
Rick, lets attempt some Socratic method here, a simple set of question:

1. Are the oceans a part of the globe?
2. Is there a so-called "pause" or "stall" in the rising ocean heat content?
bobinc

Trad climber
Portland, Or
Sep 3, 2013 - 07:51pm PT
Also, Chief, it's insulting to our intelligence (mine, anyway) to have you prop up hacks such as Legates and Soon as credible voices. I mean, c'mon. Have you actually read any of the discussion they've tried to stir up with those who really understand the data?

But I'm an elitist, so go ahead and insult me some more.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
Rick,
Since you've posted links to a paper titled "Recent global-warming hiatus tied to equatorial Pacific surface cooling", I assume you've read it and can tell me the implications of the 'equatorial Pacific surface cooling.'

I mean, because you use the paper to make an argument, I assume you can provide details on its conclusion, right?


($100 says you can't.)
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 3, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
Two Dicks and a Ron.
The Deniers need a few morons.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Sep 3, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
Yep, it's very odd the Chief keeps citing the Kosaka and Xie paper. It's what we've been trying to pound into him for months.

There's something not right with that boy.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
Rick,
I don't see where you've made a point about climate change that is correct. You didn't manage to point one out in your long post.

And no, I'm not surprised.


EDIT: To be clear, you need to show me where the papers Chiloe provided offer proof to your assertion. Why? Because I say the papers prove you wrong.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 3, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
It is all about you.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 3, 2013 - 08:12pm PT
what if we just don't worry about The Chief... he is the drama queen of this thread, for sure...

Deal. I'll stop.



Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 3, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
One more time Rick:

Rick, lets attempt some Socratic method here, a simple set of question:

1. Are the oceans a part of the globe?

2. Is there a so-called "pause" or "stall" or "hiatus" in the rising ocean heat content?

3. When you keep quoting this: "Then temperatures stayed fairly flat", what temperatures are the authors referring to? Is it Air/atmosphere? Ocean surface? Entire ocean? Please be specific.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 3, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
It is all about you.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 3, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
It is all about you.
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