Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
Long before we ever have the power to destroy this beautiful Earth we will kill each other in the struggle for supremacy of ideology. World war 111 could be right around the corner and we still believe we have the luxury for our science to use a significant portion of the fruits of the citizens labors to create toy models of reality to attempt to scare the people into compliance with one of ideologies that is the root of the problem.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:15pm PT
I doubt we will ever have the ability to destoy the earth. Death Star technology seems a long way off. I don't even think we have the technology to erase the human race. Could be wrong about that. But humans are a scrappy and survival prone species.

We do currently have the ability to make the world very difficult for 8 Billion people to live on it. We are rapidly changing the climate and ecosystems modern civilization is built on an unintentional but necessarily symbiotic relationship with. When it comes to squandering of resources the banking system already ate up a couple hundred trillion recently. SO I'm not so worried about a few trillion spent on the research and construction work needed to determine what needs doing and doing it.

At least the few trillion spent on that would actually go to a lot more people for the work they do. Scientists, engineers, Construction workers, Tool, instrument and equipment manufacturers, Transportation and such. I'm not quite so big on hedge fund managers needs.

Honest question here. I am confused about one thing Rick. What ideology do you think climate science is the tool of and being used to scare us into adopting or compliance with?

The evidence I have seen is that the biggest and most wealthy interests in the history of the world such as oil and banking companies are the ones directly contributing millions of dollars to the misinformation campaign against the AGW body of knowledge.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
Excellent and timely point Rick. So let us set aside our ideologies for now and look at the science....


What is the current science telling us so we can inform our ideologies?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
Oh come on Rick I realize you are still under grad material but you must be able to sum up the prevailing science in one or two sentences...........


??????
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
Long before we ever have the power to destroy this beautiful Earth we will kill each other in the struggle for supremacy of ideology. World war 111 could be right around the corner and we still believe we have the luxury for our science to use a significant portion of the fruits of the citizens labors to create toy models of reality to attempt to scare the people into compliance with one of ideologies that is the root of the problem.

IMO this nails the taco-climate deniers central argument:

self-loathing of humanity.

Peel back the arguments, dig to the core, and you will find hated seething there.

DMT
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
Indeed.

Just google authoritarian personality.....


oh forget it. I'm going climbing
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
Pretty obvious Derek. Communism, or more precisely an aritocratic semi dictatorship under the cloak of communism. First the politicians try to peacefully have the citizens give up their freedoms, one by one, in the interest of safety, security, equal opportunity, or in this modern era enviromental conscience. This only works so far before the citizenry wake up and revolt, then with new ruling ideology spread throughout the bureacracy, government, armed forces, the final transition is accomplished at the point of a gun. The vast majority of the believers, who lend the scheme its crucial initial legitamacy, then find themselves living a miserable life of impoverished servitude. This system has been established and failed many times in the 20th century.In the end result it is never good for the people or the planets enviroment.


climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
Hmm I'd say that is the type of system we currently live in. You know my thoughts on our supposed democracy. The Wealthy elite does not have perfect control but they gain more every year it seems. What I find most interesting is that these very orgoanizations are currently the ones who spend the millions against research and developement regarding Global warming. They are the ones funding the PR backlash against science. Perhaps we are both correct as undoubtedly there is more than one strategy of the power hungry at play. However science is a tough horse to rein in due to it's adherance to one basic principle. Evidence. Also the free disemmination of gathered information. Dangerous thing for the power hungry and one of the reasons it has always been one of the first target of dictators .. religious or otherwise.

Perhaps later I'll document the the pathway of the flow of money later.

I suspect you and I have similar concerns but different view as to the source of the tyranny.

Anyway I gotta go do a quick job and then kayaking. Catch ya later.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
gonna be 100 here today.. Global warming has struck-- but will last only two days - back into the 80s next week.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
Yeah Derek, we are pretty far down the road already.

Just in time Ron, a little localized global cooling.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
You are a good to excellent writer Ed. Most always clear and concise. What you have to say is understandable-above all else you seek to defend the scientific community. This is understandable, but i think you would be much for the better to try to convince your brethren in "the community" to switch from studies seeking scientific understanding of an impossibly chaotic system to studies for scientific applications to benefit all. It is time to roll out product, not to just endlessly consume the product of the peoples labor.

I've read an article recently that claims their has been a distinct increase in the greening of our planet, as per satellite imagery, especially in areas previously to arid to support much plant life without increased CO2 levels. I'll try to dig it up later.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 8, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
That is a good start, good quality regional predictions are crucial for economies and the peoples welfare. Now what about that Fusion that is always 30 years out, or convincing the public about the near fail safe nature of the new generations of nuclear fission reactors, or storage systems for solar and wind energy to allow continuous generation,or space travel with colonization, etc. etc. Their is a whole universe of practical science to pursue that could render our present irrational fears as a funny memory of mass hysteria from the past. You guys need to get to work.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 8, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
What ideology do you think climate science is the tool of and being used to scare us into adopting or compliance with?

Just another modern religion. Nothing more. Show me where the Roman Catholic Church and Climate Science differ when it comes to checks and balances. Both done internally. Disallowing any outside entity to review/inspect. None. The excuse, no one knows our process better than we do.

The Climate Science "peer review" process is a joke. Self preservation at best. Akin to the Mob doing it's own quality control and then telling the people that they are taking care of the future interests of the neighborhood. Just make sure you pay up every Friday or else. Sheer madness at best. "Give me your money please."


You guys need to get to work.

That's for damn sure. They ain't got shet done in over 40 years. Hansen just retired fat and happy. WTF did he accomplish other than create the hysteria that governs this issue. His (GISS) models are the worst and most deceptive. Coming NO where near the reality of today. Not even close. Perpetuating the fear and fatalism of it all. The King of the scam. Sharing Happy Hour in the Bahama's with good old Al Gore. Laughing their asses off at all the sheep. HA HA HA. Comparing their off shore bank accounts. Cha Ching Cha Ching.


Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 8, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
Pretty obvious Derek. Communism, or more precisely an aritocratic semi dictatorship under the cloak of communism. First the politicians try to peacefully have the citizens give up their freedoms, one by one, in the interest of safety, security, equal opportunity, or in this modern era enviromental conscience.

Thank you Rick. I see you are willing - unlike some chickenshits - to explore the role of personal motivation in this discussion. You have mentioned the specter of Communism before. I generally agree with your disdain, being a card carrying capitalist and fully aware of the historical record of Communism.

Setting aside for a moment the evidence (or lack of) indicating the immediate threat of Communism to the American way, would you not also agree that there are other socio-economic systems that may also threaten the American way - such as Corporatism?

As much as anything, I - being a limp wristed cry baby liberal - wish to empathize with your perspective on the world and worthwhile values and see if we have common ground. As much as you may wish to avoid being seen to even remotely agree with a person of my race, i hope you can take the risk.

Thank you for initiating this line of discussion and I eagerly await your reply to my questions.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 8, 2013 - 02:57pm PT
Thank you for right sizing your art work Chief.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 8, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
Yeah

My 9.9 baud modem dial up takes an hour!
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 8, 2013 - 03:05pm PT
unlike some chickenshits

See what I mean. Perfect example of the arrogant mentality and philosophy that will in fact be the downfall of your agenda and plight. The "Peer Review" process at it's best. The 97% Consensus.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jun 8, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
please Chuff..... just lie down on this couch for a moment.

Now. What has been bothering you lately?
raymond phule

climber
Jun 8, 2013 - 03:18pm PT
His (GISS) models are the worst and most deceptive.

No, you have already posted the worst and most deceptive predictions, for example Lindzen's prediction from the eighties.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 8, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
^^^^^^^^^ Wrong. Lindzen did not utilize Millions of of the US Tax Payers dollars to come up with his "prediction". Hansen and his NASA GISS did. For well over 30 years. Thus his are indeed the worst and most deceptive of all models. He thieved the money. Made the models that are completely bogus. Then ran off with the plunder. Retired with nothing to show of it. Nothing.


More "artwork" that confirms the scam.
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