Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 7221 - 7240 of total 26688 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 21, 2013 - 05:12pm PT
Importance of fast ice and glacier fronts for female polar bears and their cubs during spring in Svalbard, Norway
Freitas et al. Marine Ecology Progress Series (2012)

Arctic sea ice is declining rapidly, making it vital to understand the importance of different types of sea ice for ice-dependent species such as polar bears Ursus maritimus. In this study we used GPS telemetry (25 polar bear tracks obtained in Svalbard, Norway, during spring) and high-resolution synthetic aperture radar (SAR) sea-ice data to investigate fine-scale space use by female polar bears. Space use patterns differed according to reproductive state; females with cubs of the year (COYs) had smaller home ranges and used fast-ice areas more frequently than lone females. First-passage time (FPT) analysis revealed that females with COYs displayed significantly longer FPTs near (<10 km) glacier fronts than in other fast-ice areas; lone females also increased their FPTs in such areas, but they also frequently used drifting pack ice. These results clearly demonstrate the importance of fast-ice areas, in particular close to glacier fronts, especially for females with COYs. Access to abundant and predictable prey (ringed seal pups), energy conservation and reluctance to cross large open water areas are possible reasons for the observed patterns. However, glacier fronts are retracting in Svalbard, and declines in land-fast ice have been notable over the past decade. The eventual disappearance of these important habitats might become critical for the survival of polar bear cubs in Svalbard and other regions with similar habitat characteristics. Given the relatively small size of many fast-ice areas in Svalbard, the results observed in this study would not have been revealed using less accurate location data or lower-resolution sea-ice data.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 21, 2013 - 05:12pm PT
Ron, what's the clue, in the first two words of your funnyman's graph, that it was not drawn by any scientist?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 21, 2013 - 05:16pm PT
I could go ahead and post or repost biologists comments, or the Native peoples comments or any of the others ive already posted.


but to quote a 20 yr polar bear biologist about just the straights area alone, " There arent just a few more bears, theres a hell of a lot more bears."



Polar bears are quite old in their current form.. HOW did they ever "survive" periods that had MUCH higher CO2 levels??
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 21, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
Try again, what's the answer to my question?
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
May 21, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
Why must we believe the agenda driven global warming people and not our lying eyes?

Alaska
Global Warming skeptics win $318,500 for guessing the Tanana River ice
off date of May 20, 2013 rather than in the usual break up times in the middle of April.

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/20130520/97-year-old-nenana-ice-classic-sets-record-latest-breakup-river-1









Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
May 21, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
Hmm... I wonder if the "increase" in the number of bears in a defined area is possibly due to the decrease in habitable areas elsewhere...?
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
May 21, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
yeah Ron...I am a bleeding heart...here is a documented tale of a mother polar bear (with cubs) setting the continuous swimming record (she was tagged) and swam for NINE STRAIGHT DAYS :0 lost 22 percent of her body weight and her cub drowned...


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/07/110720-polar-bears-global-warming-sea-ice-science-environment/


Do I believe there is evidence of a polar bear recovery??? Show me the documented evidence and I will take a look at it and it's source---if the source is credible and the research documenting the polar bear population is sound I will stand corrected...but I will still care about the polar bear!!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 21, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
Alaska
Global Warming skeptics win $318,500 for guessing the Tanana River ice
off date of May 20, 2013 rather than in the usual break up times in the middle of April.

yeah, tell em Dave!

that proves beyond doubt that 97% of the world's very best scientist are WRONG about the earth geting warmer

and all those record high temps set just in the last couple of years are LIES

what are you, 15?
crunch

Social climber
CO
May 21, 2013 - 05:28pm PT
Ron, what's the clue, in the first two words of your funnyman's graph, that it was not drawn by any scientist?

hey, that's a fine graph...damn straight...oh wait....
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 21, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
chiloe,, i havent a clue..


now answer mine: how did polar bears survive higher CO2 levels in the past?

Its all hooohaw. They more than likely evovled from lower brown bear forms and could easily do the reverse of needed. Just like the crocodile and othr ANCIENT life forms that have survived many a catastrophic period of the past. Perfectly acceptable cross breeding those ursus types.


mt lion, do yur own research. PLENTY of factual out there. As per your poor drowning cub story,, wake UP! Damm skippy bears drown every year,, ad do elk, deer, coyotes, PEOPLE, and all other critters fiddling around ice.

You gulped it down hook line a sinker. it is THAT propaganda that has ben soundly prove to be b-u-l-l...
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 21, 2013 - 05:31pm PT
Hmm... I wonder if the "increase" in the number of bears in a defined area is possibly due to the decrease in habitable areas elsewhere...?

Skep, that is something biologists have learned may happen when scientific surveys and resident accounts of bear contacts suggest opposite trends. It's possible for a population to be declining even while contacts with humans are increasing, if that's where hungry bears come looking for food.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 21, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
guess ill ask again,, how did the polar bear survive higher CO2 content?


And why is it the USA was the only ban,, not even Canada joined that.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 21, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
chiloe,, i havent a clue..

True dat.


now answer mine: how did polar bears survive higher CO2 levels in the past?

Tell me more about this time, Ron. When was it that polar bears were surviving higher CO2 levels?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 21, 2013 - 05:38pm PT
Polar bears have been chilling on the ice far longer than is generally thought, new research suggests, and they probably interbred with brown bears at one point after the two species separated.

The new German study contradicts data from a study published last July in the journal Current Biology that suggested polar bears separated from brown bears 150,000 years ago. The new study analyzed the bears' mitochondrial DNA, a special "additional genome" that lives in the cell's energy factories and is passed down only from the mother. The new study concludes that the bears became separate species closer to 600,000 years ago.

If the polar bears were only 150,000 years old, as suggested by the previous study, they would have had to evolve many specialized traits in a curiously brief time, the German researchers said.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 21, 2013 - 05:38pm PT
hey, that's a fine graph...damn straight...oh wait....

+1 for crunch
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 21, 2013 - 05:39pm PT
Credit: Ron Anderson
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
May 21, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
Ron your losing credibility with me (probably everybody but I can't speak for anyone else)...You won't provide links to the documented studies that show polar bear populations are increasing...what am I supposed to BELIEVE you had a conversation with somebody (no name given by you) and they SAID the bear population was increasing---sounds a little fishy are you sure you weren't talking to one of your stuffed animals while high on formaldahyde??
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 21, 2013 - 05:42pm PT
They more than likely evovled from lower brown bear forms and could easily do the reverse of needed.

Ron, what do you think the time scale is for evolution from a lower brown bear to a polar bear or vice versa? Hint, it is far greater than a few generations... which is about how long humans have been pumping massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere, increasing the concentration by over 40%.
CO2 concentrations induced by natural factors (increased volcanism, orbital irregularities, etc) change over much MUCH longer time scales than a 40% increase in a few decades... MUCH longer.


Bears aren't the issue anyway. The UNPRECEDENTED rate of increasing CO2 from anthropogenic sources IS THE ISSUE. You have fully admitted that. The only question that remains is... do we ignore it and hope everything turns out just fine, or do we pull our heads out of our asses and start doing something about it despite Big Oil and the morans who lap up the bullshit they spew?
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 21, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
Nice googling and quick switch to another funnyman's graph, but in haste you must have forgotten to answer my question, again. I'll repeat:

Tell me more about this time, Ron. When was it that polar bears were surviving higher CO2 levels?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 21, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/about-polar-bears/essentials/current-status
I will be your huckleberry,2 clicks.
So Ron polar bear pops are growing in Greenland,and in the Torngat mountains,in Labrador.
You certainly have disproved GW.
Messages 7221 - 7240 of total 26688 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews