Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 23, 2013 - 11:13am PT
After Ed's late night document dump it leaves me wondering what is his motive? He says he does not directly work in the climate science field. Is he just an innocent egghead following the data with absolute scientific purity, free of the bias afflicting much of mankind, to a conclusion with clarity beyond question or has this multi trillion dollar doomsday cult taken over the bureaucracy to the point that government scientists, regardless of their remoteness to climate science and the extent of their illusion of independance, fear for their jobs in questioning the machine, sometimes to the point of desperately trying to reinforce its fallacies.I can tell you this with certainty; the high preist Trenberth is all over the board with his statements and only under the 'high' of the circular reinforcement logic of his most ardent admirers does he go out on the shaky limb of full endorsement. For any of you whose minds are still open i invite you to go back to my post of last evening and open and carefully read Trenberths two statements-this is him during moments of conscience.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 23, 2013 - 11:16am PT
After Ed's late night document dump it leaves me wondering what is his motive?

You do of course know and understand where and what he does for a profession do you not Rick?

"Alternative Energy Trillion dollar Industry" juggle your senses?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 23, 2013 - 11:19am PT
Listen to your betters Rick. Other Rick is on it like we will never be.

Ed works for Solyndra.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 23, 2013 - 11:24am PT
So thats what an Ivory Tower looks like! No wonder my daughter can be such a high and mighty B@#$TCH.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 23, 2013 - 11:31am PT
I never once stated you were "neat" nor orderly ED. Not once. Just that you most likely freak out when things are out of their place. Perfect example of the perception issue. Clearly proving my point.

As far as your "total solar irradiance post", that is just a perception of science. Anything can happen. Putting a cease on what the Sun can and can not do is so self standing. All it takes once. Just once. And the show is completely shut down and all over. It can happen. For your brigade to come out and state that it will not, is far worse denialism than any anti-GCC could ever scream. Regardless the researched "history".
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 23, 2013 - 11:35am PT
ok, i didn't know that Chief. Now it makes perfect sense-motive greed. Below is a link to Roy Spencer's paper after they addressed the critics. Conclusion is the same and even Trenberth admits, when he speaks his conscience, that the science has many many unknowns and the models diverge grossly from reality.Ed mentioned this paper had been refuted, what he didn't say is that it had been reworked to answer any legitimate crtiques.

http://www.bing.com./search?=on+the+misdiagnosis+of+surface+temperatures+feedbacks+frc
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 23, 2013 - 11:40am PT
Ed your a goddamned hypocrite,get a degree of dignity back and recuse yourself from this discussion. You are wholly owned by the CAGW radicals.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 23, 2013 - 11:40am PT
ED works for the same government Boys Club that invented, designed and helped implement this wonderful and save the planet item. And they were not from Manhattan.

wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 23, 2013 - 11:40am PT
Here is a sentence from Trenberths article," Focusing on the wiggles and ignoring the bigger picture of unabated warming is foolhardy, but one promoted by climate change deniers."

Not taken out of context.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 23, 2013 - 11:43am PT
These beauties had it tops at the Mann from '33-56.


um Chief?

while magnificent, HRD/Vincent hardly ruled the Island

that title was held by the Norton Manx, sorry
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 23, 2013 - 11:45am PT
Spencer, a University of Alabama, Huntsville, climatologist, and his colleagues have a history of making serious technical errors in their effort to cast doubt on the seriousness of climate change.

You mean kinda like all them 'error" adjustments that the IPCC continues to do in their temperature models? Ironic. Nope. Just science at work. That is how science works is it not ED?

EDIT:

I stand corrected Norton. Good post!

But it, the HRD Vincent still held the Land Speed record for some nine years.

The Black Lightning was a Vincent motorcycle designed and built in September 1948 at the Vincent works in Great North Road, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, UK, and produced from 1948 to 1952. At the time the Black Lightning was the fastest production motorcycle in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Black_Lightning
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 23, 2013 - 11:46am PT
As far as your "total solar irradiance post", that is just a perception of science. Anything can happen. Putting a cease on what the Sun can and can not do is so self standing. All it takes once. Just once. And the show is completely shut down and all over. It can happen. For your brigade to come out and state that it will not, is far worse denialism than any anti-GCC could ever scream. Regardless the researched "history".


Absolutely correct. The fact that the sun does not have a history of blowing up does not negate the possibility - nay, the likelyhood - that it will.

This is the lesson that me and Greater Rick tell our children. Which perhaps explains their messy rooms and cutting fetishes.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 23, 2013 - 11:49am PT
gamarnin Ed ,, and ALL! Yur obviously intelligent Ed as yur office clutter is a strong indicator a clean office equals a mind elsewhere. !


It is good to see you throw some more refuting up, however that doesnt change the fact that the Fauna that was such a poster child of global warming is digging this non pollutant CO2.. Perhaps its just that they havent read the latest "studies". The correlations of Co2 to global warming are still the mystery they were at the start.





By WILLIAM HAPPER

During a fundraiser in Atlanta earlier this month, President Obama is reported to have said: "It gets you a little nervous about what is happening to global temperatures. When it is 75 degrees in Chicago in the beginning of March, you start thinking. On the other hand, I really have enjoyed nice weather."

What is happening to global temperatures in reality? The answer is: almost nothing for more than 10 years. Monthly values of the global temperature anomaly of the lower atmosphere, compiled at the University of Alabama from NASA satellite data, can be found at the website http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/. The latest (February 2012) monthly global temperature anomaly for the lower atmosphere was minus 0.12 degrees Celsius, slightly less than the average since the satellite record of temperatures began in 1979.

The lack of any statistically significant warming for over a decade has made it more difficult for the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and its supporters to demonize the atmospheric gas CO2 which is released when fossil fuels are burned. The burning of fossil fuels has been one reason for an increase of CO2 levels in the atmosphere to around 395 ppm (or parts per million), up from preindustrial levels of about 280 ppm.

Enlarge Image

Getty Images
CO2 is not a pollutant. Life on earth flourished for hundreds of millions of years at much higher CO2 levels than we see today. Increasing CO2 levels will be a net benefit because cultivated plants grow better and are more resistant to drought at higher CO2 levels, and because warming and other supposedly harmful effects of CO2 have been greatly exaggerated. Nations with affordable energy from fossil fuels are more prosperous and healthy than those without.

The direct warming due to doubling CO2 levels in the atmosphere can be calculated to cause a warming of about one degree Celsius. The IPCC computer models predict a much larger warming, three degrees Celsius or even more, because they assume changes in water vapor or clouds that supposedly amplify the direct warming from CO2. Many lines of observational evidence suggest that this "positive feedback" also has been greatly exaggerated.

There has indeed been some warming, perhaps about 0.8 degrees Celsius, since the end of the so-called Little Ice Age in the early 1800s. Some of that warming has probably come from increased amounts of CO2, but the timing of the warming—much of it before CO2 levels had increased appreciably—suggests that a substantial fraction of the warming is from natural causes that have nothing to do with mankind.

Frustrated by the lack of computer-predicted warming over the past decade, some IPCC supporters have been claiming that "extreme weather" has become more common because of more CO2. But there is no hard evidence this is true. After an unusually cold winter in 2011 (December 2010-February 2011) the winter of 2012 was unusually warm in the continental United States. But the winter of 2012 was bitter in Europe, Asia and Alaska.

Weather conditions similar to 2012 occurred in the winter of 1942, when the U.S. Midwest was unusually warm, and when the Wehrmacht encountered the formidable forces of "General Frost" in a Russian winter not unlike the one Russians just had.

Large fluctuations from warm to cold winters have been the rule for the U.S., as one can see from records kept by the National Ocean and Atmospheric Administration, NOAA. For example, the winters of 1932 and 1934 were as warm as or warmer than the 2011-2012 one and the winter of 1936 was much colder.

Nightly television pictures of the tragic destruction from tornadoes over the past months might make one wonder if the frequency of tornadoes is increasing, perhaps due to the increasing levels of CO2 in the atmosphere. But as one can read at Andrew Revkin's New York Times blog, dotearth, "There is no evidence of any trend in the number of potent tornadoes (category F2 and up) over the past 50 years in the United States, even as global temperatures have risen markedly."

Like winter temperatures, the numbers, severity and geographical locations of tornadoes fluctuate from year-to-year in ways that are correlated with the complicated fluid flow patterns of the oceans and atmosphere, the location of the jet stream, El Niño or La Niña conditions of the tropical Pacific Oceans, etc.

Related Video





Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 23, 2013 - 11:55am PT
And William Happer really knows how to survive in modern day North Carolina:

In February 2009 Happer testified before the U.S. Congress, "I believe that the increase of CO2 is not a cause for alarm and will be good for mankind", for among other reasons because of its beneficial effects on plant growth.[9]
Happer was listed as a signer of the petition of the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, no later than 2000,[10] and Cato Institute's 2009 letter.[11] With Fred Singer, Harold Lewis, Robert Austin, Larry Gould, and Roger Cohen, Happer led[12] the 2009 petition [13] to the American Physical Society to change its position statement on climate change. The petition was signed by a few hundred of the 47,000 members and was rejected.[14]
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 23, 2013 - 11:56am PT
Thats all you got?
Really,a professor from one of the worst colleges in the u.s.a.
I know a few different guys that played hockey for UAH,there is a reason they went to that school.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 23, 2013 - 11:59am PT
Yes Happer was ignored for a while not so much now,, since ALL the fuana is falling IN LINE with what he stated...And thus far,, THAT is the only SOLID proof of CO2 effects and they arent bad. In addition his observations of past weather trends is accurate.




edit : and reading your study clips posted, i see continually the words: possibly, uncertainties and ifs..
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 23, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
I know a few different guys that played hockey for UAH,there is a reason they went to that school.

Bias are you? Sounds like a good crowd of college educated friends ya got and run with. What was their major? Something in the same line as yours. BA in UBW. Thought so. Thanks for he admission Wilbeer.

Edit.

WILBEER!!

WTF are you doing buying and using CHINESE FOSSIL FUEL C02 emitting manufactured crap!


Oh the hypocrisy of it all.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 23, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
What was their major? Something in the same line as yours.


ha ha! Good one. If you majored in ACTION like me and greater Rick you'd get it.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
May 23, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
The Chief complains about Ed working in the sector that also designs nukes, but neglects to mention that The Chief worked in a sector that is armed by nukes.

To quote The Chief: Oh the hypocrisy of it all!
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
May 23, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
as I said, verification and validation are a bitch... talk is cheap.

You "verified and validated" what? Your perceptions of what you thought I meant. Nope. Sorry. Try again ED. Just cus your shet is a mess doesn't invalidate my claim of your freaking out when things are out of order. Your order of mess. Try again.

edit.


The Chief complains about Ed working in the sector that designs the A-Bombs, but forgets that he worked in a sector that employs them.

Ah, I'm not one of you guys. I admit and am proud of it. As you should be for all those Brothers and Sisters throughout our history that gave their all so that you could have and state your opinion/s freely.
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