Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 19, 2013 - 09:05am PT
Yes I understand. I have also notice short term variations.

But the important thing is Why do you strongly doubt? Why would you weight Roy Spencers credibility as strong and Hansons credibility as weak?

You have neither the expertise to judge or the weight of consensus to support you.

So what compels you exactly?

Intuitive sense? Mexican gangs?


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 19, 2013 - 09:15am PT
I haver a bit of a PTSD when it comes to "science studies" in general, due to many issues i worked with in the USFS. I saw MANY a study turn out to be absolutely backasswards from reality. Hard not to get a bit jaded towards the methods used for such studies. I could go on and on about stand density index and how that was labeled absurd by studies in favor of basil area techniques- those folks also called doubters insane, or prejudice.. I could tell you about the "science" behind many a once considered factual study that turned out to be wrong, and guided by pre-conceived wishes- many just to justify an veritable industry.

So yes, i agree what we do have affects, but the extrapolated views of those is what i doubt. And that comes from opinions such as Dr Spencer as many others, along with my own physical observations.


and of course,, mexican gangs tend to fart a lot,, so im SURE they are part of the problem.. Im told there is a "study"..
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 19, 2013 - 09:23am PT
I sympathize with your PTSD situation. However, would you suggest that there is a better way to understand our natural world other than science?

Do you really think we should decide this whole thing on "gut instinct" because you once observed some science not quite hit the bulls eye?

If so, what does your gut instinct tell you about the story big oil and the Koch brothers are telling us?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 19, 2013 - 09:28am PT
IMO it seems obvious some of you guy's are very intelligent so why do you waste your time on these nitwits?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 19, 2013 - 09:33am PT
Intelligence has nothing to do with it. I also enjoy vaporizing ants with a magnifying glass.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 19, 2013 - 09:35am PT
I also enjoy vaporizing ants with a magnifying glass

I forgot how much fun that is I need to teach that to my kids today
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 19, 2013 - 09:38am PT
I saw MANY a study turn out to be absolutely backasswards from reality.

I'm calling you out... you say MANY, emphasis yours... show us THREE, I dare you.

The majority of USFS workers wouldn't know science if it bit them on the ass. I suspect you fit into that category. You've already proven what you THINK the studies claim are no where near what they actually claim.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 19, 2013 - 09:39am PT
nitwits?




Anyhow Ed,, the only thing ive ever published was a stinkin climbing guide. And yes i have no phd. MORE THAN enough to have a masters in forestry though. Also quite skilled in fish and wildlife. Being in that business since i wuz elelven. But i are just uh rednek- billhilly compared to yourself. All i can do is read both sides, add personal observation and decide.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 19, 2013 - 09:40am PT
the usfs has a hard time managing a campground
El Cono

Boulder climber
Tierra Del Coņo
May 19, 2013 - 09:41am PT
I also enjoy vaporizing ants with a magnifying glass.

Hey Ed....

How big a magnifying glass would I need to vaporize Knott?

....just a ballpark estimate.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 19, 2013 - 09:42am PT
I got that one Ed,
Credit: kennyt
you may have to work from the top down
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 19, 2013 - 09:46am PT
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California

May 19, 2013 - 09:40am PT
the usfs has a hard time managing a campground







thats THESE days Kenny. And heres why: The consent decree 1979, for the various govt agencies to obtain equal parity of race and sex. It resulted in a mass exodus of the best the USFS ever had...
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 19, 2013 - 09:49am PT
Ron, I have friends that work for the F.S. and they told me they have to have someone to come in and teach them how to get along with one another. u know who's payin fer that, what a joke.

El Cono

Boulder climber
Tierra Del Coņo
May 19, 2013 - 09:50am PT
It resulted in a mass exodus of the best the USFS ever had...

Meaning all the white guys. Right?

And they all left to become climate scientists....
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 19, 2013 - 09:51am PT
I could go on and on about stand density index and how that was labeled absurd by studies in favor of basil area techniques- those folks also called doubters insane, or prejudice..

You are talking about measurement techniques. Different measurement techniques apply to different situations, stand types, etc. For a given stand, there is usually a direct comparison between SDI and BA. Your gripe is moot.

I could tell you about the "science" behind many a once considered factual study that turned out to be wrong, and guided by pre-conceived wishes- many just to justify an veritable industry.

Okay, then do. Stop offering your vague, generalized opinion and tell us something useful. Tell us about the "science."

MORE THAN enough to have a masters in forestry though.

Hahaha... I love it when people say sh#t like that. You know nothing about it until you have done it. Sh#t, you can't even take criticisms about your guide, your routes, or your friend's routes without going berserker. I can't imagine you could deal with criticism regarding 2 years of research on one subject.



There is ~10% good, smart, hard working people in most FS offices these days.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 19, 2013 - 09:51am PT
that did sound bad Ron.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 19, 2013 - 09:57am PT
But i are just uh rednek- billhilly compared to yourself.

oh come on Ron stop being mean to Ed. No one is more red neck or hill billy than Ed. Have you ever seen a picture of that guy? There's no need to cut him down on his fashion sense when you have more than enough for a masters in the the science.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 19, 2013 - 10:05am PT
I could copy and paste but i believe many have already been mentioned here.
I just put up some questions by Dr Spencer that seem to reflect the same ones i have about the studies being done currently.

Theres little point to me pasting more graphs or studies here only to be called a nitwit again anyhoo.

As for my own observations of weather in my little chunk of the rock, i see a drying and cooling trend. Rick and I were just recently looking over the Toulon sink area, noting the vast difference between the mid 70s and now and it has shrank about 95% from what it was then. Only about 15% can be attributed to further upstream water use. Go to the Midwest region and they are experiencing HEAVY precip years far more than normal as we tend to dry out. So to me, we in my area have lost both ends of the extremes in weather- cold/ wet and hot /dry extremes to be exact. That doesnt reflect general global warming trends in many studies. Nor does the weather they are having in Alaska. What seems obvious is an easterly shift of jet stream and weather patterns.



edit: And Bruce,, i certainly wasnt being mean to Ed. Nor do i pretend to be in his league in Scientific Research by a damm long shot. He seems Brilliant to a degree i will never understand. But i did work with many bitd, and at times, saw the DUMBEST crap i ever saw from those "highly educated" typs. Hence my ptsd about "Studies" in general. Its well deserved i assure you.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 19, 2013 - 10:09am PT
Its like shooting fish in a barrel
El Cono

Boulder climber
Tierra Del Coņo
May 19, 2013 - 10:13am PT
What seems obvious is an easterly shift of jet stream and weather patterns.

wtf
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