Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
May 15, 2013 - 05:56am PT
^ and ^^

You guys expect data & logic to sway an idiot?
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 15, 2013 - 06:49am PT
You guys expect data & logic to sway an idiot?

Rick is not an idiot but an ideologue, a raging one to judge by his last diatribe. He gets his shouting points about "science" from fellow ideologues, and there's an endless supply of those on the interwebs. Note the widely-repeated "Mann" meme above, pretty much every word of which is false.
Jim E

climber
away
May 15, 2013 - 07:07am PT
Chiloe, let's get out climbing soon.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 15, 2013 - 07:09am PT
What a concept! Blue sky out my window, I'd love to.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
May 15, 2013 - 07:28am PT
An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way. [wikipedia]

I'd say driving prices up for property insurance and food is counterproductive.
Jim E

climber
away
May 15, 2013 - 07:29am PT
Indeed, it was a painful walk from house to car and from car to office.

I may have some time this weekend. In fact, this weekend may be my only chance for a few weeks, at least locally anyway.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 15, 2013 - 08:05am PT
Let's do it.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 15, 2013 - 08:18am PT
News from a friend in Palmer Alasks,,summer came and went they are expecting snow and indeed the lake he lives next to is frozen still..He works for an energy company that is busy as bees.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 15, 2013 - 08:29am PT
Yep, looks like it's cool today in Alaska. Warm in Siberia. Birds are singing at my house. That's a pretty silly way to argue.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 15, 2013 - 08:33am PT
yes i suppose current weather trends have nothing to do with the topic..
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
May 15, 2013 - 08:40am PT
It was 100 in LA this weekend
Does that mean anything? yes and no

rong, you would well advised to not look like such an idiot here, and not bother posting your stupid observations..

And so you're reading a great book of pure BS propaganda, and that it helps prove that you are right about environmentalists, good for you

Make sure you read Ann Coulter's new book, "Liberals are Wrong"
it will give you alot of good ammunition to take us liberals on
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 15, 2013 - 08:49am PT
Well doc,, her chapter on Forestry concerns is 100% correct. And YES i have a stack of training certificates about four inches thick in regards to Forestry and its practices. Much of that masters level courses.
Bharata

Mountain climber
Pune
May 15, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
Hello C- climate scaremongers. Surely you are unhappy this cold
Spring 400ppm CO2 day in our northern hemisphere?

No climate disaster to shout woe is me about just yet hmmmm?



Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 15, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
It was a full six degrees below normal here this morning

therefore this global warming thing is just a ruse cooked up to put more money in the pockets of snobby scientists and elitist universities

and I will declare victory if I can get ONE of you to agree with me......
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 15, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
"It's cold today in Wagga Wagga" is the name of this clever argument.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 15, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
In the end the defining issue of the politics and policy of climate change is wether the governing ideology is informed and validated by the science, otherwise known as our best system for explaining reality, rather than the science is informed and validated by the ideology. It is a weighting of value of reality over ideology.


ideology ( d - l -j , d -). n. pl. ideologies. 1. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.

By the above definition there is nothing inherently wrong with ideology. A "body of ideas" is the foundation upon which we wish to organize our society. When you look at it, despite little differences in weighting, the vast majority of us generally agree on basic moralities. We would all like us ( humanity) to live happy and well supported by our resources ( earths eco systems) in a sustainable manner.

Discounting extreme ideologues that don't support this ( Rascists, Right wing authoritarians, Maoists, Rons Eco fascists and various other as#@&%es) most of us can generally agree on the above "ideology". It should be obvious that to be agreeable a reasonable degree of accommodation and tolerance is required. The other requirement for achievability is it must be validated by our best understanding of reality, which by and large is demonstrated to be best provided to us by science. Even the spiritually motivated should be able to agree with this.

Which is a long winded way of saying it dosn't matter what your ideology is, if it dosn't pass the reality test, it must evolve so that it does.

What i think Rick dosn't understand, or perhaps dosn't care about or possibly dosn't trust is how the scientific process works and the real value it provides. There is lots of room for contrary ideas within science, in fact it demands it and it actually dosn't matter much what motivates them. The ideas will survive or die on the legitimacy of the science and this will be reflected by the concensus / judgement within the science community. Contrarian opinion, like any opinion will survive and prevail only if it is proven which to date it is not. Based on this understanding, AGW is now well understood to be the driving force in climate change.

If you don't trust it or don't care then this should be explained and demonstrated, not just wildly hyperbolized through speculations about communist conspiracies. This is the only way you can legitimize your position because you have no credibility in understanding or evaluating the science. If you can't demonstrate either then you may want to think about evolving.







s
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 15, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
I can tell you of a time and a place where ALL obvious was ignored, in favor of "scientific" studies done in the management of our timber resources. For every attempt at solving the real problem, an equal and opposite study was brought forth to squash any such actions. Over and over again actually. "Scientists" deemed the need for old growth habitats yet FAILED to realize how old growth came to be- being managed basically by wildfire. Even now there are "scientists" defending the BS over the Spotted owl..Which fyi tends to prefer clear cut regrowth for nesting and hunting lol! So you see, a certain grain of salt approach is not only smart but required. Ive seen the proof over a thirty year time span.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 15, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
"Scientists" deemed the need for old growth habitats yet FAILED to realize how old growth came to be- being managed basically by wildfire. Even now there are "scientists"

Good use of quotes around "scientists"--I think we've got 'em on the run now!
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
May 15, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
This Thread is Not about Forest Management, nor science from 50 years ago being wrong.
So hence, your analogy is worthless
dirtbag

climber
May 15, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
Assuming that is true, you use one totally unrelated instance where the science was supposedly wrong to haphazardly knock the science in another field.

What do you suggest we use to figure out the world? Star alignments and entrails?
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