Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jul 2, 2013 - 11:38am PT
If 7 billion people had to turn to hunting-gathering to survive, you'd better be fleet of foot and willing to dine on your adversaries. Completely unrealistic outlook.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jul 2, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
Ed said our side wants "the desired outcome to determine the science". That is exactly right. As the Chief points out so well, the scientists on the CAGW side have known for 5 decades ( at least emotionally in their minds) that as Ed said, "we can't vent the by products forever without disaster" to the ecosystem. So that begs the question: Why have they run around, in ever increasing numbers, as chicken littles claiming the sky is falling, the sky is falling? Why didn't we turn out a generation of scientists to tackle this supposed disaster and other very real looming threats?Many people like me have taken their ever shriller forecasts of doom ,and judged it invalid by the repeated failures of their dire predictions, to come up with the inescapable conclusion, that although the true believers have faith in a utopia, the forces behind and propelling this agenda have no intention of creating a better world through fossil fuel abandonment and green energy.Why you guys cannot see this is beyond comprehension.

The majority of "the people" want solutions, not hysteria.
new world order2

climber
Jul 2, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
the forces behind and propelling this agenda have no intention of creating a better world through fossil fuel abandonment and green energy

Said forces have no "intention", because their "agenda" is to push this propaganda, (blaming global warming on mankind) in an effort to convince us that the population has to be controlled. In other words, death panels, mandated abortion/euthanasia/sterilization/vaccinations/one child policy, yadda, yadda, yadda.
new world order2

climber
Jul 2, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
Bruce! High pressure is finally in. You been climbing?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 2, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
One of the most VILE and stupid things ive heard concerning global warming was the blame of it for the 19 fallen brothers in the Yarnell AZ fire.

Yea? Where did you hear it?
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jul 2, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
Here's a good PBS show showing all that science is learning from satellite sensors. Great imaging and time elapsed video.

One section was about CO2 and O2 daily cycles,. O2 is made by both land plants and by water phytoplankton mainly where there are rich nutrients from rivers or upwelling. I think they said the O2 cycle on land is more closed than the ocean cycle, where the plankton release their 02 into the air which gets mixed more into the atmosphere.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/earth-from-space.html
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Jul 2, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
Our lifestyles are tied to our energy use. Changing our energy use will be hugely disruptive to the economy, and the result of that disruption difficult to calculate in terms of that lifestyle

To move away for a moment from the mind-numbing scientific data and tens of thousands of refereed research papers which putatively make humans the guilty party, what sort of research is going on about how to mitigate the enormous life-style effects upon the poor and even the middle class should we collectively move to alternative energies? It's one thing for a well-healed scientist to abandon his V6 SUV in favor of a (crappy little) 4-cylinder with "turbocharge", but quite another to ask all segments of society to pay double or triple their energy costs - or more - with ongoing high unemployment and reduced incomes. I'm sure there are doctoral theses being composed that address this issue, and I would suspect most point to greater progressivism in the economic sphere.

If this has been addressed before, just point me to the relevant posts. I haven't read the thread.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jul 2, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
John, I think if you brush up on the merits and miracles of the trickle down economy, your questions will be answered. Most of the poor and downsliding middle-class are masters at making ends meet. Food would certainly become cheaper if we all became vegetarian. Maybe instead of crappy 4 cylinder cars, we could make more crappy 2 cylinder cars. The really snooty dudes would feel superior having 4 under the hood at that point. Increasing the production of AR-15s would go along way to making things better also. I don't have one yet - may as well get one. It is the way!

Oh, I almost forgot.....we need more stadiums! I've been thinking lately that for every bridge that collapses we should build a new stadium.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jul 2, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
Who said anything about organic? Clearly the future is Monsanto. Tomorrow you will be Round-Up Ready!

If Monsanto got its sh#t together, they could have insecticides that act preemptively on a variety of cancers. There is nothing we can't accomplish if we put our heads together. They should also just put the Round-up in the water supply and quick f*#king around.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jul 2, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
No such thing as a VEGEN that does not insist on organic

I said vegetarian...... And I did say 'if we all became vegetarian'. There's no f*#king way 7 billion and more will be eating 'organic'.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jul 2, 2013 - 04:58pm PT
Anyway, if you take into account the orbital and axial cycles, the fact we came out of a grand minima of solar activity coinciding with the little ice age, to the mid to late 20th century grand maxima of solar activity, then throw in fluctuations of oceanic cycles of differing frequency you can easily explain the 0.7 c global temp increase of the 20th century with only a feeble anthropogenic contribution.

This seems like you're leaving it as an exercise to the reader. That would be fine if we all had a background in this area. Hell it's typical in textbooks given that the reader has the appropriate background.

HOWEVER, very few of us here are climate scientists. For those of us that don't would/could you please fill in the details especially since you claim one can
easily explain
this? I'd like to see it spelled out with things that someone with a good undergraduate science background should be able to understand - equations, their basis, their solutions, and reasons for approximations used. Additionally if the approximations or equations are non standard please rigorously justify this. Lets say you keep it to a multivariate calculus level (you claimed it was easy, even implied trivial).

Since you claim it can be done easily you should be able to put it together as simple lecture notes in less than an hour or so...Sh#t if it's that trivial this shouldn't take you more than 15 minutes...Unless you can't, and then I wonder what that means?

kev
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jul 2, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
Chief, I think Bruce is on your side more than you realize. You could argue with a rock.
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Jul 2, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
yeah - you have a problem with that?

Wow, there are a lot of shoulder chips on this thread! I asked a very neutral question and it's assumed I'm against a progressive agenda.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 2, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
What's a vegen?
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jul 2, 2013 - 05:06pm PT

Wow, there are a lot of shoulder chips on this thread!

What, did you think you could change the atmosphere around here? Here, you round-up to the lowest common denominator......and you don't want to show'em your chalk!
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jul 2, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
Don't know about a vegen but I'm pro PETA - People Enthusiastically Tasting Animals! Meet is murder. Yummy, yummy, murder...

Sorry I couldn't resist :)

And is vegin a special gin?
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Jul 2, 2013 - 05:12pm PT
What, did you think you could change the atmosphere around here?

Nope. Just survive it. It's a little like Jack Warner's paper mill on the Black Warrior at times!


;>)
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jul 2, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
Yummy, yummy, murder...

But in order to lower the costs of living for the 7 billion plus, that doesn't calculate. I hate to think cow pies will be a thing of the past. It's enough of a reason to de-populate now. I think quite a bit about cattle grazing in pastures and think that if nobody ate them.....well, they would have any life at all. Feedlots? Don't need no stinkin feedlots!
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Jul 2, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
and I would suspect most point to greater progressivism in the economic sphere.

I took it as though he was being positive about progressivism. The only alternative is Soylent Green.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 2, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
No such thing as a VEGEN that does not insist on organic

More manufactured bullsh#t from Da Chief.
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