Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
|
May 14, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
|
Chilo - its always about the money. Don't deny it.
For you, maybe. You also think it's fine to make up "facts" to fit your politics. Science is not like that.
|
|
Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
|
|
|
May 14, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
|
Im currently reading Eco-Fascists by Elizabeth Nixon.
Her take on Forestry concerns is SPOT ON...
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
May 14, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
|
You're almost certainly wrong about that.
When you look up Dunning-Kruger effect on Wikipedia, there's a picture of blahblah's smiling face. Or should be. So certain, based on so little knowledge.
Thanks, we'll put your scowling visage in under "snake oil salesman."
|
|
mountainlion
Trad climber
California
|
|
|
May 14, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
|
Abrams I don't know what will stop it.
This past year I have lived in the Philippines. I witnessed a culture with no plan for plastic--the result is plastic trash everywhere. Previous to plastic they used leaves from different plants to hold the food they sell (still do but plastic bags are dominant). The leaves were biodegradeable but are more expensive and less convenient than the plastic bags.
The world had no idea of the repercussions of a powerful, convenient fuel source like oil. Thus no plan on what to do about those repercussions. I can tell you from being exposed to 2 vastly different cultures (as an adult) 2 observations:
1)In the 70's I witnessed more pollution coming from the cars tailpipe here in the U.S. than I do now (because of regulation).
2)In the Philippines there is no regulation for the vehicles (or it isn't enforced) and their vehicles produce a lot more pollution than the vehicles in the U.S. do today.
Based on these 2 observations regulation works (in this case at least) to improve our air quality. Would it work for the bigger problem of climate change?
My opinion is we need regular people, corporations, and countries to pull in the same direction to preserve our planet for future generations. Currently some people, corporations, and countries take advantage of no regulations or loosely enforced regulations to get out of paying their fair share. This results in an environment that is polluted and a climate that is changing.
Doing nothing isn't an option...at least it hasn't worked on any of the problems I'm qualified to solve (Weight loss, injury rehabilitation, sports performance--for my personal training clients).
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
|
|
|
May 14, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
|
Abrhams,when i lived in colorado, may was ski season.You could bike a little and climb down low,but it was ski season.
Come on now ,link up,show me the billions of dollars we spend on this,then go to the general accounting office and see the reality.The only ones spending billions are the fossil fuel people,as covertly as possible.Playing you doubters .
When was the last time you saw a left wing supported commercial,blowing climate change alarms?
Although,i cant turn anything on w/o hearing about jobs,gas,energy independence,and everything else big oil wants you to believe.
Reality, 97 out of 100 scientists have a consensus.
|
|
rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
|
May 14, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
|
The degree of idiocy some of you catastrophists exhibit in calling us realists deniers is simply breathtaking.Extraordinary claims, which the more hysterical among you never fail to vociferate endlessly,require extraordinary proof.Your so called "scientific consensus" is disintegrating before your very eyes as real world observations by real scientists are revealing real Earth science truth. I can only guess at your motives, but history shows that if this little socialist/communist utopia (which would actually manifest as a radical communist dictatorship) you envision actually comes to pass,all but higher of the politically connected are doomed to a life of impoverished servitude.Some of you, who seem to post here plenty from 9-5 weekdays, are government employees. Is this what your employers , who are funded by the taxpayers, want you to be doing?Below is listed a couple papers for your review.
Holocene temperature history at the western Greenland ice sheet margin
Axford Quaternary Science Reviews 2013
Orbital forcing of tree ring data-Jan Esper Nature Climate Change 2012
Keep up the pressure BlahBlah, Abrams and Ron-good work
|
|
Dr. F.
Big Wall climber
SoCal
|
|
|
May 14, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
|
Extraordinary claims, which the more hysterical among you never fail to vociferate endlessly,require extraordinary proof.Your so called "scientific consensus" is disintegrating before your very eyes as real world observations by real scientists are revealing real Earth science truth. I can only guess at your motives, but history shows that if this little socialist/communist utopia (which would actually manifest as a radical communist dictatorship) you envision actually comes to pass,all but higher of the politically connected are doomed to a life of impoverished servitude. The farther they are backed into a corner, the more outrageous the confusion and anger
I would feel sorry for these people, but I won't, and I can't wait to say I told you so, and yes, you were pathetically stupid to deny science.
Science doesn't lie, money does,
it's billions of dollars spent on lobbyists, think tanks, and the right wing media that are spreading the denialist message, against a bunch of unorganized honest hard working scientists that know the truth and have no way to fight against the forces of evil
|
|
Dr. F.
Big Wall climber
SoCal
|
|
|
May 14, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
|
And yes, we can all feel the difference in temperature, you can feel the extra heat when it's sunny, like a green house.
and like I said before, you know who takes GCC seriously, the Military and insurance companies
They have already paid out billions more because of GCC
and some reports would say that millions have died from the effects of GCC already
But it doesn't matter, nothing I say will sway you, why?, because you guys are cultists, and cultist's refuse to listen to facts, they take their misinformation from their leaders.
The Right Wing Cult of doom and denial, it sickens and saddens me
|
|
rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
|
May 14, 2013 - 11:39pm PT
|
Stick with cleaning up the local air Dr., you seem to be doing a good job. Don't fear for your job as the cult of CAGW collapses, their will always be need of pollution mitigation science in the teeming metropolises.
|
|
rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
|
May 15, 2013 - 12:30am PT
|
Eighty percent of the cited, but not provided, data record ocean water temperature changes, which because of poorly understood mechanisms and cycles of ocean oscillations is hardly as reliable as the provided data of the Axford paper which measures atmospheric temps. Why did the temperature swing upwards to 2-3c over current temps absent anthropogenic forcing? Of course you noted that this was regional, but like a slow drip, more likewise accurate paleoclimate studies of many other regions are in the works.
|
|
rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
|
|
|
May 15, 2013 - 12:51am PT
|
Maybe you still have faith in Mann, but i can tell you the general populace and the silent majority of global scientists consider him permanently discredited after exposure of manipulation of data to create the infamous hockey stick graph.Goodnight, over and out-and please come up with more credible studies in the future.
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
May 15, 2013 - 08:09am PT
|
Yeah.
|
|
Malemute
Ice climber
the ghost
|
|
|
May 15, 2013 - 08:56am PT
|
^ and ^^
You guys expect data & logic to sway an idiot?
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
|
May 15, 2013 - 09:49am PT
|
You guys expect data & logic to sway an idiot?
Rick is not an idiot but an ideologue, a raging one to judge by his last diatribe. He gets his shouting points about "science" from fellow ideologues, and there's an endless supply of those on the interwebs. Note the widely-repeated "Mann" meme above, pretty much every word of which is false.
|
|
Jim E
climber
away
|
|
|
May 15, 2013 - 10:07am PT
|
Chiloe, let's get out climbing soon.
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
|
May 15, 2013 - 10:09am PT
|
What a concept! Blue sky out my window, I'd love to.
|
|
Malemute
Ice climber
the ghost
|
|
|
May 15, 2013 - 10:28am PT
|
An idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way. [wikipedia]
I'd say driving prices up for property insurance and food is counterproductive.
|
|
Jim E
climber
away
|
|
|
May 15, 2013 - 10:29am PT
|
Indeed, it was a painful walk from house to car and from car to office.
I may have some time this weekend. In fact, this weekend may be my only chance for a few weeks, at least locally anyway.
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
|
May 15, 2013 - 11:05am PT
|
Let's do it.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!