Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded Sheep
Nov 12, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
I sure should follow your example KaveMAN and NOT use any vehicle that utilizes any of the CHEAP SCAM FUEL. Not an ounce.

Instead, I will remain in my shack in Liberalville, fester and worry about what could happen in a hundred years and brew up things and excuses on why it is all the REPUGS fault.

Good example KaveMAN!
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded Sheep
Nov 12, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
Oh my!


Looks like even the DEMS are caving into this real cheap scam feeding energy agenda, KaveMAN!


Oh the IRONY!

Democrat Mary Landrieu, chair of the Senate Energy Committee, said she would propose debate later on Wednesday and a vote on Thursday on a bill floated in May to approve the project, which would deliver heavy Canadian oil sands crude to the U.S. Gulf Coast.

Landrieu of Louisiana, who faces a runoff election in December against Representative Bill Cassidy to retain her seat, said on the Senate floor she was "confident" she has the votes to pass a bill on TransCanada Corp's $8 billion project.
http://news.yahoo.com/senator-landrieu-says-propose-vote-thursday-approve-keystone-200051992--finance.html



Your fantasy ECO FREAK EXTREME LIB IDEOLOGICAL AGW AGENDA is slipping away right before your very own eyes, KaveMAN.

How funnnnneeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Nov 12, 2014 - 04:04pm PT
As Chiloe helpfully explained, all that cold air must have come from someplace else.

As comments go this seems dumber than dumb but perhaps it's just a prelude to blahblah explaining his theory that the cold arctic air now in Boulder did not come from someplace else but was created right there over Boulder.

As monolith more intelligently notes, the best antidote for silly "it's cold today in Wagga Wagga" posts, so popular on this thread (or equally for their mirror image when it's hot there today) should be to post a global temperature map. He gave an example, here's an ESRL version I like. That's absolute temperatures on top, anomalies below.



The link is live, so that will keep changing daily. For a bit longer perspective here's their 90-day version,



Or, as we shift from weather to more climatic time scales, NASA has good mapping page for global temperature anomalies by decade back to 1880. For example here is 1980-1989,



1990-1999,



and 2000-2009,

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Nov 12, 2014 - 04:06pm PT
Let's see who has a "predictable" answer to those,Chiloe.:)
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Nov 12, 2014 - 04:10pm PT
Let's see who has a "predictable" answer to those,Chiloe.:)

I'd rather not see, sometimes ya gotta avert your eyes. Spent today hearing science from scientists, it's a whole 'nother world. I'll try to bring some of that back here when I have time.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Nov 12, 2014 - 04:16pm PT
But I'll leave you with something funnier that was new for me today ... Tree Lobsters!

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Nov 12, 2014 - 04:26pm PT
Very Good!

Reminds me of VW camping at the Portland pier parking lot.A guy selling fresh Lobster Rolls.......man!

blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Nov 12, 2014 - 04:35pm PT

As comments go this seems dumber than dumb but perhaps it's just a prelude to blahblah explaining his theory that the cold arctic air now in Boulder did not come from someplace else but was created right there over Boulder.

As monolith more intelligently notes,

Got it, thanks.
I have been "explaining" to random people I interact with that record lows are proof of global warming, but I've been getting some confused looks. To fortify my argument, I'll try calling any stragglers "dumber than dumb"--perhaps that will persuade them.
(One interlocutor did have the insolence to say something like "if record lows prove global warming, what do record highs prove?" Needless to say, no response other than a look of utter contempt was necessary.)
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 12, 2014 - 05:05pm PT
http://www.thepiratescove.us/2014/11/12/if-all-you-see-1311/
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Nov 12, 2014 - 06:19pm PT
Blah.... by appearance maybe your intent was taken 180 degrees the wrong way. I must say, at first read I'd make the same mistake. I think Splatter will tell you i did it to him once. Likely an honest mistake.

At any rate, If your puzzled students of climate are indeed stumped at the incongruity of cold being a result of warm, then while perhaps they are not dumb they are certainly ignorant. Thecwhole phenomena has been well explained here and al over the mainstream media for years.

Yes, no one likes being called ignorant but avoiding that truth dosn't make it any less true. The fact is that if they are really that out to lunch on the subject they should refrain from drawing any conclusions on their own but instead look for guidance from the readily available institutional expertise. Unfortunately, in a society as cynical and science illiterate as our own - the Chuff being a shining example - the default "best source" is each individuals gut hunches or what Dick Sumner likes to call "confidence of ones own council". I can't imagine why anyone would follow such advice when it comes to brain surgery but for some reason climate science is considered perfectly within the grasp of any Tom, Dick, Day trader, Building contractor or helicopter groupie.

So yeah its probably counterproductive stating the problem in such personal terms but at the same time it is entirely wrong to encourage anyone to "figure it out themselves", the odds of gross error being near 100% as is demonstrated here daily.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2014 - 06:21pm PT
From:

Got it, thanks.

To:

I have been "explaining" to random people I interact with that record lows are proof of global warming, ...


Odd, Chiloe said nothing about record lows being proof of global warming. So when you say, "Got it," what is it that you got?
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded Sheep
Nov 12, 2014 - 07:17pm PT
Hey Chiloe Etal, PSSSSSSSSSSST, NO ONE GIVES A SHET any more..... Really!


Even your own party is caving...



Democrat Mary Landrieu, chair of the Senate Energy Committee, said she would propose debate later on Wednesday and a vote on Thursday on a bill floated in May to approve the project, which would deliver heavy Canadian oil sands crude to the U.S. Gulf Coast.

Landrieu of Louisiana, who faces a runoff election in December against Representative Bill Cassidy to retain her seat, said on the Senate floor she was "confident" she has the votes to pass a bill on TransCanada Corp's $8 billion project.
http://news.yahoo.com/senator-landrieu-says-propose-vote-thursday-approve-keystone-200051992--finance.html

Come January, pretty much every Carbon related restriction etc that the EPA imposed the past 5 or so years will be history. Repealed and thrown into the shetcan.


No ONE GIVES a flying RATS ass any more. The PEOPLE do NOT CARE!


blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Nov 12, 2014 - 07:50pm PT

Odd, Chiloe said nothing about record lows being proof of global warming. So when you say, "Got it," what is it that you got?

I wouldn't quite say the above is an accurate reflection of the ST record. Here are what I see as being the relevant posts:
me:
Just checking in to report record or near-record lows in Boulder.
As I recall from last year, that's more evidence of global warming, correct? (As Chiloe helpfully explained, all that cold air must have come from someplace else.)
Nothing like a good game of heads-I-win, tails-you-lose!

monolith:
Hey blahblah, Chiloe is correct.

Chiloe:
[quoting my comment that "As Chiloe helpfully explained, all that cold air must have come from someplace else.]"

As comments go this seems dumber than dumb but perhaps it's just a prelude to blahblah explaining his theory that the cold arctic air now in Boulder did not come from someplace else but was created right there over Boulder.

I suppose monolith's comment could be reasonably read as endorsing only the proposition that "the cold air must have come from someplace else," but it seems to me that when he wrote that "Chiloe is correct," that was also an endorsement of the contention that record lows evidence global warming. Maybe it's ambiguous, maybe I'm mistaken, no big deal.

What is a stranger was Chiloe's statement that my comment was "dumber than dumb," when my comment was just a summary of Chiloe's earlier statement, which monolith had confirmed, and which Chiloe has again endorsed!!
Apparently Chiloe can't take "yes" for an answer.

Perhaps Chiloe detected a bit of sarcasm in my post, which isn't entirely unreasonable, but I don't really have a problem with the "air comes from someplace else" explanation, which is obviously true to some extent. I was just trying to stimulate a little discussion on weather and climate, but we've got a cantankerous group here.
In particular, do record lows (not just one, but a pattern of them) have anything useful to tell in evaluating climate change? Maybe not in light of Chiloe's point about air coming form someplace else. But then what about record highs?

Whatever happened to the old "there's no such thing as a stupid question" (which isn't literally true of course, but is intended to stimulate discussion).
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Nov 12, 2014 - 08:09pm PT
No ONE GIVES a flying RATS ass any more. The PEOPLE do NOT CARE!


Chuff is barking his usual. No one cares. He's somewhat right of course but there is some logical explanation for that..... many Americans are too uninformed to care. The really interesting thing is that Chuff thinks this is something to celebrate. He considers ignorance a badge of honor and the more ignorant America is, the prouder it will be and anyway ignorance is the last reason to stop a real american from "confidence of his own council".

Aside from that, the people who really don't care - that is, even if they knew they still wouldn't care - are chuff's own tribe... Angry old men with an axe to grind.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Nov 12, 2014 - 08:22pm PT
Stupidity is a badge of honor for these folks. They live and embrace it.
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded Sheep
Nov 12, 2014 - 08:22pm PT
What part of your PROPERTY is that TRANS CANADIAN KEYSTONE GOV'T SPONSORED OIL PIPELINE gonna go through again, BRUCEE KY?



Call it what ever you want azzhats, but come January, all your Stone Age EPA restrictions will be toast.

Come the end of this week, the Keystone Project here in the lower 48 will be approved by both Houses.

Can't wait to see what else is on the agenda to dismantle all this AGW stone age hysteria you cracker jack wanna-bes would love to see implemented that has been circulating around the past 5 or 6 years.

the people who really don't care - that is, even if they knew they still wouldn't care - are chuff's own tribe... Angry old men with an axe to grind.

Sure are tons of axes out there..




Toooo Fuuuneeeeeeeeeeee!
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Nov 12, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
From The New York Times...

GREENBELT, Md. — I’M a climate scientist and a former astronaut. Not surprisingly, I have a deep respect for well-tested theories and facts. In the climate debate, these things have a way of getting blurred in political discussions.
In September, John P. Holdren, the head of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, was testifying to a Congressional committee about climate change. Representative Steve Stockman, a Republican from Texas, recounted a visit he had made to NASA, where he asked what had ended the ice age:
“And the lead scientist at NASA said this — he said that what ended the ice age was global wobbling. That’s what I was told. This is a lead scientist down in Maryland; you’re welcome to go down there and ask him the same thing.
“So, and my second question, which I thought it was an intuitive question that should be followed up — is the wobbling of the earth included in any of your modelings? And the answer was no...
“How can you take an element which you give the credit for the collapse of global freezing and into global warming but leave it out of your models?”
That “lead scientist at NASA” was me. In July, Mr. Stockman spent a couple of hours at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center listening to presentations about earth science and climate change. The subject of ice ages came up. Mr. Stockman asked, “How can your models predict the climate when no one can tell me what causes the ice ages?”
I responded that, actually, the science community understood very well what takes the earth into and out of ice ages. A Serbian mathematician, Milutin Milankovitch, worked out the theory during the early years of the 20th century. He calculated by hand that variations in the earth’s tilt and the shape of its orbit around the sun start and end ice ages. I said that you could think of ice ages as resulting from wobbles in the earth’s tilt and orbit.
The time scales involved are on the order of tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of years. I explained that this science has been well tested against the fossil record and is broadly accepted. I added that we don’t normally include these factors in 100-year climate projections because the effects are too tiny to be important on such a short time-scale.
And that, I thought, was that.
So I was bit surprised to read the exchange between Dr. Holdren and Representative Stockman, which suggested that at best we couldn’t explain the science and at worst we scientists are clueless about ice ages.
We aren’t. Nor are we clueless about what is happening to the climate, thanks in part to a small fleet of satellites that fly above our heads, measuring the pulse of the earth. Without them we would have no useful weather forecasts beyond a couple of days.
These satellite data are fed into computer models that use the laws of motion — Sir Isaac Newton’s theories — to figure out where the world’s air currents will flow, where clouds will form and rain will fall. And — voilŕ — you can plan your weekend, an airline can plan a flight and a city can prepare for a hurricane.
Satellites also keep track of other important variables: polar ice, sea level rise, changes in vegetation, ocean currents, sea surface temperature and ocean salinity (that’s right — you can accurately measure salinity from space), cloudiness and so on.
These data are crucial for assessing and understanding changes in the earth system and determining whether they are natural or connected to human activities. They are also used to challenge and correct climate models, which are mostly based on the same theories used in weather forecast models.
This whole system of observation, theory and prediction is tested daily in forecast models and almost continuously in climate models. So, if you have no faith in the predictive capability of climate models, you should also discard your faith in weather forecasts and any other predictions based on Newtonian mechanics.
The earth has warmed nearly 0.8 degrees Celsius over the last century and we are confident that the biggest factor in this increase is the release of carbon dioxide from fossil fuel burning. It is almost certain that we will see a rise of two degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) before 2100, and a three-degree rise (5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) or higher is a possibility. The impacts over such a short period would be huge. The longer we put off corrective action, the more disruptive the outcome is likely to be.
It is my pleasure and duty as a scientist and civil servant to discuss the challenge of climate change with elected officials. My colleagues and I do our best to transmit what we know and what we think is likely to happen.
The facts and accepted theories are fundamental to understanding climate change, and they are too important to get wrong or trivialize. Some difficult decisions lie ahead for us humans. We should debate our options armed with the best information and ideas that science can provide.
Piers J. Sellers is the acting director of earth science at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center.

http://nyti.ms/1B4PU64
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded Sheep
Nov 12, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
The earth has warmed nearly 0.8 degrees Celsius over the last century and we are confident that the biggest factor in this increase is the release of carbon dioxide from fossil fuel burning.




Yet, Democrat Leadership is endorsing building Oil Pipelines across our Homeland to export them "fossil fuels" throughout the globe to be burned and then emitted into the atmosphere....



Democrat Mary Landrieu, chair of the Senate Energy Committee, said she would propose debate later on Wednesday and a vote on Thursday on a bill floated in May to approve the project, which would deliver heavy Canadian oil sands crude to the U.S. Gulf Coast.

Landrieu of Louisiana, who faces a runoff election in December against Representative Bill Cassidy to retain her seat, said on the Senate floor she was "confident" she has the votes to pass a bill on TransCanada Corp's $8 billion project.
http://news.yahoo.com/senator-landrieu-says-propose-vote-thursday-approve-keystone-200051992--finance.html


Last Tuesday America sent a message to all potential leaders... Do what is best for EVERYONE. NOT just a select few Eco Freak nutcases that want to set us all back to the stone ages via their fortune telling/Climate Modeling process.

BobDA, take my suggestion to move down to Nicaragua as sound and best for a person of your convictions and moral standing. Or I should say, lack of.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Nov 12, 2014 - 09:34pm PT
Chuff.... let me explain the above article to you so that you will not be distracted by your own mythology.

Representative Stockman of Texas is an idiot. He arrives at conclusions by following his "confidence of his own council", a confidence that is unwarrented and hopelessly missplaced yet like you, he feels certain that confidence is all that counts so confident he is. Whatever that other better qualified people tell him must first be filtered through this "confidence of his own council".

Representative Stockman is also satisfied that regardless of what the truth is, the only fact of importance is that the enitre state of Texas is equally as stupid as he is, and proud of it. That is why you and they will lick his boots and probably some other things of his without actually knowing it.

but I like your story better

The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded Sheep
Nov 12, 2014 - 09:48pm PT
Twist and turn it all you want psycho babbler yakity yak Brucee KY.

It is NOT going to change the ultimate reality. The Keystone Pipeline that will transport all them millions of barrels of Fossil Fuel Oil from ALBERTA to the world, is coming to town for Christmas. That includes not only your town BK, but YOUR property up there in CANADA.


Oh the ironeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
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