Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 23, 2015 - 04:04pm PT
The Chief...Your junk science is bankrupt much like the airport and town of Mammoth Lakes that you and Manning helped bankrupt....
jonnyrig

climber
Jan 23, 2015 - 04:11pm PT
58% of the people in the world are having a hard enough time living to see the next day to give a f*#k about whether it gets two degrees warmer. In a hundred years, their progeny may give a f*#k, but that's not a given. By then, maybe the oil will run out and the rest of us "educated" and vastly over-consuming sheep will have something more important to worry about than whether our internet-fueled global warming rants meant a goddamn thing besides "oops we're f*#ked", regardless of the cause.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jan 23, 2015 - 04:16pm PT
Chief, a boy's mind stuck in a man's body.
The Chief

climber
RFLMAO here on the Taco
Jan 23, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
It is simply decadal variation around the AGW forcing signal.

Bullshet MONO. Post up the ref where Mueller stated just that. That pretty picture states nothing of the sorts for that specific time frame... 1910-1945.









rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca

Jan 23, 2015 - 04:04pm PT
The Chief...Your junk science is bankrupt much like the airport and town of Mammoth Lakes that you and Manning helped bankrupt..


Junk science?? Tooooooooo funnnneeeeeeeeeeeee RJ! Yup... we took the money and ran. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


BTW, the Airport just got the final FAA informal approval to construct the new bigger terminal and runway extension. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! That way the IPCC and all them 1700 pvt jetgoers can fly into Mammoth and have their next CAGW WR party.


All the while your City Council is still walking around in a total fog with not a clue as to wtf is going on... WTF just happened.... WTF just happened?


Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jan 23, 2015 - 05:00pm PT
Chief's whole life has been one big shouting match.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2015 - 05:01pm PT
What would those actions look like?

Really, that is the key question.


It's a rock and a hard place. On one hand, everybody wants to be able to hit a switch to turn on the lights, turn up the heat, and if it's weltering, jack up the AC.

We want to eat tomatoes in mid-winter, we want our latest X-boxes. And so do millions in "developing" nations, such as Brazil, India. And as these emerging areas take a step into the "Western world," they also want to eat higher on the food chain. No more gruel, Where's the Beef!

It all take energy.

Including the perpetual growth needs of neo-liberal capitalism and her over-weight sister, the multi-national corporations that run "what we build, where we build, and how we build it."

So, what actions will it take to break the deadly cycle we are facing. On one hand, we continue with the status quo. And we have a pretty darn good idea where that leads (3C+ degree rise in global temps in the not-too-distant future). And boy, is that gonna wreck our current standard of living! Not to mention our entire economic system--how the "markets" will crash!

So we ask, what action can we take where we get to keep the status quo? I mean, isn't that what everybody wants. Stay warm, turn up the heat. Too hot, crank the AC. And give me another steak for dinner, with lobster!

Yeah, but it ain't gonna happen that way.

We know the real answer is that the status quo cannot exist for long. You're not going to be able to just flick the switch and have whatever you want happen on the other end--there is the full weight of your action to consider.

For many, that is too much to consider. That's why it's so easy for the denier crowd to hitch on to what the Heartland Instititue sells. It's all a hoax, go home and turn up the heat, turn on all your incandescent lights. You see, no problem. And...Gas is CHEAP! It's EVERYWHERE.

Yes, the actions needed will break all of that. Are we up for the challenge, or do we say just say "screw it" and see how fast we can fly off the cliff?
The Chief

climber
RFLMAO here on the Taco
Jan 23, 2015 - 05:06pm PT
Nothing there KMAN... just more of your bullshet political rhetoric. Amazing.


We want to eat tomatoes in mid-winter, we want our latest X-boxes. And so do millions in "developing" nations, such as Brazil, India. And as these emerging areas take a step into the "Western world," they also want to eat higher on the food chain. No more gruel, Where's the Beef!

It all take energy.

Including the perpetual growth needs of neo-liberal capitalism and her over-weight sister, the multi-national corporations that run "what we build, where we build, and how we build it."

So, what actions will it take to break the deadly cycle we are facing. On one hand, we continue with the status quo. And we have a pretty darn good idea where that leads (3C+ degree rise in global temps in the not-too-distant future). And boy, is that gonna wreck our current standard of living! Not to mention our entire economic system--how the "markets" will crash!

So, you asks, what action can we take where we get to keep the status quo? I mean, isn't that what everybody wants. Stay warm, turn up the heat. Too hot, crank the AC. And give me another steak for dinner, with lobster!

Wtf Kaveman! Just cus you decided to live in a carboard box, not wash your azz nor brush your teeth and eat out of a dumpster, doesn't mean we all have to.

Btw, does that Chinese made computer/keyboard of yours run off of the hot air you keep emitting in order to post up that insistent bullshet of yours?

Just wondering.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2015 - 05:08pm PT
I'm not sure what you're smoking there The Chief, but I'm not talking politics.
The Chief

climber
RFLMAO here on the Taco
Jan 23, 2015 - 05:11pm PT
WTF are you talking about KAVEMAN! Really. What.


Your post above indicates NO actual remedies. NONE. Just more of the same rhetoric about how all the humans are living selfish lives and care nothing about anything.

You want the entire planet to regress to a life of prehistoric zombies the likes of the life you are living?

Really.

Do you live in a cardboard box and eat out of a dumpster?

Present some real viable solutions Kman. You have yet to ever do that.


TLP

climber
Jan 23, 2015 - 05:39pm PT
EdwardT asks
If all the nations of the World agree do their part, what would be required of the US? What would be required of the average US citizen?

It depends on how all the nations agree to define "doing their part." Despite the paranoid shrieking you read here about return to a Paleolithic lifestyle, from one simplistic viewpoint, the U.S. and its individual citizens wouldn't have to do much at all, because the country's GHG emissions have fallen some 10% or so (someone can supply an accurate figure) since 2007. One lawyer might argue, that's totally doing our part, especially if we keep that trendline going a while. Same thing for western Europe. But another (Chinese or Indian) lawyer would say, all this accumulated 400ppm is mostly yours, you have to achieve a way greater reduction while we keep increasing our emissions to ratchet our standard of living up to your 3-SUVs-in-every-garage standard; that's what "doing your part" means.

So it's not simple at all. Had the U.S. gone ahead with sane fuel economy standards way back in the 70s, and not made a bunch of loopholes to placate the auto and oil industries, a huge part of the issue would never have arisen. For the U.S., it would take almost no new action to keep the downward trend in GHG emissions going, and would be pretty easy to implement even greater reductions. But until there's a carbon import tax that creates a financial incentive for China not to build a new giant coal-fired plant every 3 weeks (or whatever the rate now is - it's almost that bad), the planet is basically terminally screwed.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2015 - 05:42pm PT
The Chief, first you say I present no actual remedies, then you say my remedies will have everybody living like cavemen. Did I get that right?

You are right in one thing, though; I never articulated precise actions as EdwardT asked. Instead I presented a philosophy about how we need to live our lives, and I argue that it's got to be different than the current status quo. Both on a community level, and on a multi-national corporation level.

If there is nothing in your mind between the current status quo and being a cave man, I am not surprised.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jan 23, 2015 - 05:58pm PT
Chiefy, your little 1910-1945 denier meme didn't keep Muller from changing his mind.

He says the CO2 concentration warming signal is an excellent fit against the historical temps.



rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 23, 2015 - 06:03pm PT
Really TLP? With your attitude you might as well put your head between your legs and kiss your azz goodbye. Please start an excerise class and enlist the other hopeless alarmists here to perform this maneuver all day every day.

Where is it proven that this modest .8 c rise out of the LIA is a bad thing? Where is the proof, given the 18 year plateau of temps we are on, that the warming will continue unabated past the 2.0c , or less, climate sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 that scores of new studies are claiming. And what would be the disaster if we actually got to 2.0c above the cold of the LIA? Isn't preperation for adaptation more cost effective than torpedoing your electricsl grid with intermittent and inadequate renewables? Most all of you alarmists claim we have reached, or soon will reach, peak oil, after which new technologies of energy production will have to be sufficiently perfected to provide on par replacement. So, why not relax and let the depletion of FF runs its course while the engineers perfect the replacement. If we weren't wasting hundreds of billions of dollars funding this phony climate disaster gravy train we could have some serious money for R&D and adaptation.
The Chief

climber
RFLMAO here on the Taco
Jan 23, 2015 - 06:09pm PT
No Kman. You got that wrong as usual. But at least you and Mono are consistent. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

 Kman presents no specific viable remedies to this supposed impending catastrophe.

 Mueller never stated anything of the sorts regarding the 1910-1945 spike that is equal to the one from 1976-1998.


Just the continued parroting of your ideological nonsense, over and over and over.


BTW Kman, you are the status quo. Unless of course you are completely off the grid. Which you are NOT. You partake in all the leisure amenities that you supposedly disdain so much on a regular daily basis.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jan 23, 2015 - 06:15pm PT
But, Chiefy, Muller studied the history of temps and CO2 and changed his mind.

Therefore, your 1910-1945 denier meme doesn't rate much with him.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jan 23, 2015 - 06:22pm PT
There is something odd but refreshing about this thread today... Like a gentle breeze blowing the pig farm smell to some other place.

Ahhhhhhhhh it's like the fresh maker!

DMT
TLP

climber
Jan 23, 2015 - 06:50pm PT
Puzzling numbers, Rick. You quote 0.8 C rise since the LIA, which ended in about 1850 or not much after, and a few inches higher on my screen I see a graph showing roughly 1.4 C rise in that time period, and nearly all of that rise in the last 50 years not 150. As for "where is it proven," that's a very strange concept of what "proof" means. Nothing future can ever be proven, you just wait and see what you see. When the first shuttle exploded, the engineer said, don't do it, it's too cold, bad sh^t will probably happen. But he couldn't "prove" it, and was overruled. We know how that worked out. Might have been a good thing to listen to that particular alarmist, no?

It would be nice to know what R&D department or company is spending hundreds of billions of dollars on climate research. There's trillions sloshing around the capital markets, plenty of excess for that R&D. Doing science isn't getting in the way at all.

Edit to add: Ding, all I can say is :-)
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jan 23, 2015 - 06:58pm PT
Let's see how many surface temp data sets Sumner can find to support his claim of 18 year temp halt.

The BEST chart above doesn't support it.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jan 23, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
TLP,
The auto industry (unlike the oil industry and republican lobbyists) has not really been against fuel taxes, and in fact a revenue neutral fuel tax is many time more efficient than our past or future CAFE fuel economy standards. A fuel tax provides real incentives to modify behavior.
USA: 1100 kg/year oil equiv road fuel consumption per capita
Germany: 223 kg/year per capita

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IS.ROD.SGAS.PC/countries/all?display=default

The problem/conflict now is that gas is cheap, and CAFE stds are going up, so the idiots in charge have created conflicting policy. Few are going to want to buy high mpg cars for now, maybe the only way CAFE stds can be met could be to start subsdidizing efficient cars. The CAFE stds call for passenger car mpg to go up approx. 1 mpg per year every year for the next 10 years.

Also, I recommend you stop responding to the idiot deniers/trolls as that is a 100% waste of time, until such time as they pass or demonstrate 9th grade science ability.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 23, 2015 - 11:47pm PT
Do you want to restate that 1.4 c rise since 1850 TLP? Surely your confused by the land temp graph on this page, but we're talking global here and the seas are 70% of the surface, or perhaps you are just confusing fahrenheit for celsius. At any rate, I didn't think you were the type to misrepresent intentionally. If you go to UCAR or the IPCC it is quite clearly spelled out as a global ( that includes all surface areas, both land and sea) temp rise of approx .8c since 1850 which isn't inconsistent with a natural rise out of the LIA.

As far as there being trillions sloshing around for funding frivolous science you'd be mistaken again. A trillion here a trillion there and pretty soon your talking serious money, like our current sovereign debt which stands at 18.1 trillion. This is a far greater danger to our future health and welfare than climate scientism claims will ever pan out to be.
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