Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2014 - 02:27pm PT
Many new stations are located in urban environments where the natural heat signature is totally distorted and increased by artificial man made heat emitting units.


You know this how?
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 8, 2014 - 02:37pm PT
Ahhhhh, let's see KMAN!






Yup, those surrounding entities all emit a natural unaffected heat signature.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2014 - 02:40pm PT
Yes The Chief. Let's see.

I'm talking about your source for this fantastic info you have. Care to share from where you're getting it?

Who's to say your labeled pictures aren't just some random pictures doctored up with a few callouts?
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 8, 2014 - 02:43pm PT
Man, your disabled reading comprehension is full on, again.

Posted up thread KaveMAN.


http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/watts_et_al_press-release_web.pdf


And this one is where you can find all the photos...

http://www.surfacestations.org/


dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Sep 8, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
They all have GPS coordinates k-man.

Try googling one that is not near a human made heat source.

Beware: this search will endanger your emotional attachment to GW so proceed with caution.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2014 - 03:15pm PT
Oh, right. WUWT, the Blog site that was the key in causing the ClimateGate frenzy--an obvious attempt to discredit climate scientists.

Now why would an honest Blog Site publish such info, other than, of course, to discredit climate science? Did you know that all the scientists were eventually exonerated?

At what cost to taxpayers?


Oh yeah, put your trust there...
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 8, 2014 - 04:10pm PT
How bout that record Antarctic Sea Ice Sport!^^^^^^^^^^



OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS! Let's not show that one.

WTF is up with that Frontal? What???

photo not found
Missing photo ID#376659



photo not found
Missing photo ID#376660
Sketch

Trad climber
Not FortMental
Sep 8, 2014 - 04:27pm PT
Sketch

Trad climber
Not FortMental
Sep 8, 2014 - 04:29pm PT
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2014 - 03:15pm PT
Oh, right. WUWT, the Blog site that was the key in causing the ClimateGate frenzy--an obvious attempt to discredit climate scientists.

Now why would an honest Blog Site publish such info, other than, of course, to discredit climate science? Did you know that all the scientists were eventually exonerated?

At what cost to taxpayers?


Oh yeah, put your trust there...

Here's the relevant source.

http://www.surfacestations.org/

It's fairly well documented.
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Sep 8, 2014 - 04:58pm PT
FortMental wants to get on the right side of history.
His is a cry for help like all the catastropharians.

Just like Nat Geo seems to be trying in this report. The human polar populations are exploding and burning tons of wood and fossil fuels to stay warm and darkening the ice causing it to melt faster.

><
Soot and Dirt Is Melting Snow and Ice Around the World
New report highlights increased loss in Greenland ice cap from
dust and soot.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140610-connecting-dots-dust-soot-snow-ice-climate-change-dimick/

...snow and ice is increasingly being darkened by air pollution.
(and so melting much faster than normal even with the cooler temps)
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Sep 8, 2014 - 07:20pm PT
Here's a better overall look at soot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_carbon

That Nat. Geographic article does not lead to your conclusion.
It is based on two papers. First this paper: http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v7/n7/full/ngeo2180.html
which particularly points out much of the dust is coming from areas already melted out. Carbon soot is an additional factor.

The point is that soot (which is partly BC=Black Carbon) and dust are only one part of global warming. And soot is highly correlated with burning fossil fuels, so reduction in one will also reduce the other. Also, much of the soot in the arctic is from flaring, which is completely from fossil fuel production. How would you reduce that? In developed countries, we already have many large efforts to reduce soot emissions, so I'm not at all sure what you're proposing that will make a huge difference. Maybe cleaner burning in developing countries that could be their contribution to reducing climate change. Other soot comes from burning forests. How do you propose to reduce those? And much of the warming effect on ice is a positive feedback that combines with the albedo change due to meltwater.

Since most "skeptics" are opposed to big policy to reduce GHGs, why are you in favor of big policy to reduce soot?

"The surface energy balance and mass balance of the Greenland ice sheet depends on the albedo of snow, which governs the amount of solar energy that is absorbed. The observed decline of Greenlandís albedo over the past decade1, 2, 3 has been attributed to an enhanced growth of snow grains as a result of atmospheric warming1, 2. Satellite observations show that, since 2009, albedo values even in springtime at high elevations have been lower than the 2003Ė2008 average. Here we show, using a numerical snow model, that the decrease in albedo cannot be attributed solely to grain growth enhancement. Instead, our analysis of remote sensing data indicates that the springtime darkening since 2009 stems from a widespread increase in the amount of light-absorbing impurities in snow, as well as in the atmosphere. We suggest that the transport of dust from snow-free areas in the Arctic that are experiencing earlier melting of seasonal snow cover4 as the climate warms may be a contributing source of impurities. In our snow model simulations, a decrease in the albedo of fresh snow by 0.01 leads to a surface mass loss of 27 Gt yr−1, which could induce an acceleration of Greenlandís mass loss twice as large as over the past two decades5. Future trends in light-absorbing impurities should therefore be considered in projections of Greenland mass loss."

Second this 2010 paper:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2009JD013795/full

https://apps.webofknowledge.com/full_record.do?product=UA&search_mode=CitingArticles&qid=2&SID=4ADakJD5NINFUNI7aFi&page=1&doc=6

Numerous other papers
Of the articles citing that, the most cited itself is from 2013,
https://apps.webofknowledge.com/full_record.do?product=WOS&search_mode=CitingArticles&qid=6&SID=4ADakJD5NINFUNI7aFi&page=1&doc=1
which I don't quite follow. First it says carbon soot has a big impact and then the abstract seems to end by saying it has overall a very small effect. Additionally, The uncetainty is huge.

More:
https://apps.webofknowledge.com/full_record.do?product=WOS&search_mode=CitingArticles&qid=8&SID=4ADakJD5NINFUNI7aFi&page=1&doc=7

dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Sep 8, 2014 - 07:51pm PT
People who are emotionally invested with CO2 have a difficult time
seeing the truth about soot.

Never have suggested any plan to stop soot melting the ice.

What impossible actions would that involve? Stopping all jet travel over the pole? Evacuating all people north of 60degree latitude? Shutting down
oil/gas production on Alaska's north slope? Your best bet is
changing the jet stream so Chinese air pollution does not drift into the polar regions?
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Sep 8, 2014 - 08:28pm PT
To people who think general global action can't be done:

That is exactly what the Montreal Protocol did to preserve the ozone layer.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10962247.2013.791349?queryID=%24%7BresultBean.queryID%7D&&

http://www.wunderground.com/resources/climate/ozone_skeptics.asp
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 8, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
what does "slope =3.4 (+/- 2.6 )% /decade" mean?

you are claiming an increasing coverage, and stating an uncertainty... care to take a crack at it?
and how do they even assess the uncertainty?

jammer

climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
Chief and Sketch,

If your saying that the fact that some thermometers were located in urban environments means the readings are off, you guys have no argument. I would expect nearly every thermometer in an urban environment to be near some kind of roof, reflective surface, or heat source such as AC units.

The question is whether urban environments were over-represented in the sample, and I might point out you guys have not provided an argument for this.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
Here's the relevant source.

http://www.surfacestations.org/

It's fairly well documented.


Yeah I see what you mean. Even though the first reference on this page is a blog that was retired in 2005, this stuff really hits home. Even though all of the blog authors have been shown to work in well-funded "think-tanks," this data is really gonna put a hole in that crazy climate change stuff.


Now, can we just get some rain here in the West? Like, LA is going to be in the 100's this weekend, and I hate to think of Texas.

Say Sketch, it's going to be a mini ice age. Invest is some ski companies, they're gonna Kill it.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Sep 8, 2014 - 09:05pm PT
Skeptical Science has launched a 97-hour social media event starting today, 9/7. Each hour, the site will publish a relevant quote from a climate scientist, along with a playful caricature drawn by Skeptical Science founder and University of Queensland researcher John Cook. Each caricature lists the scientistsí name, title, expertise, and academic institution.

http://skepticalscience.com/nsh/


k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
That's a cool link Malemute.

Climate change is coming. If you want to know what it looks like, just look at the Midwest right now. Itís drought; itís heat. Warmer temperatures donít mean barbecues and tank tops. It means drought; it means fire; it means suffering.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 8, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
To people who think general global action can't be done:

That is exactly what the Montreal Protocol did to preserve the ozone layer.

An interesting article that one showing the similarities of denial and corporate sponsorship. Its obviously diferent this time around, not just the scale but the level of beligerance and recalcitrance is way greaterand and not just the usual corporate interests but also the lap dog stooges. Back in the eighties and ninties the majority of us were laughing and mocking all the Archie Bunkers. Something shifted in the meantime. Nowadays an idiot like Ted Nugent actually gets respect and every Red State Republican would lose their job if they even hinted the slightest doubt about Jesus riding dinosaurs. When someone as stupid as the Chuff can dominate a thread that dosn't involve bilge pumps or sardine fishing you know the odds of a good outcome just arn't that great.

I really don't think America's got what it takes and we sure know the Russians don't.
The Chief

climber
Laughing at all you angry blinded asshat Sheep
Sep 8, 2014 - 09:21pm PT
Now, can we just get some rain here in the West?


You mean like this that occurred yesterday and today....

Torrential rain from the remnants of a Pacific Ocean hurricane swamped the Desert Southwest Monday, with Phoenix and Tucson seeing some of the worst flooding.

Rain and floods also soaked parts of Southern California and Nevada.


Monday was the rainiest single day in the history of Phoenix, where weather records go back to 1895.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2014/09/08/phoenix-arizona-rainfall-flooding/15284743/



Be patient and very careful what you ask for, KMAN. Hope you do not live on any hillside there in Santa Cruz. Cus this Winter is going to be doozey along the coast.

You all will be begging for the ENSO rains to stop. And they have absolutely NOTHING to do with CC/AGW. Nothing.

ENSO has been happening on a regular basis for a longass time. Long before you and your vehicle that takes you to your weekend climbing spots, showed up

When someone as stupid as the Chuff can dominate a thread that dosn't involve bilge pumps or sardine fishing you know the odds of a good outcome just arn't that great.

Just another example your BS Brucee KY.


You have far more posts on this thread than I do. SO, per your own theory, you are truly the stoooooooooooopid one here.

Dumbass.
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