Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jul 2, 2014 - 09:47am PT
Meanwhile, what about Arctic sea ice? You're probably all wondering.



Well, maybe you're not wondering. But for many Arctic scientists and a growing pool of citizen-scientists it is ice-watching time again. I've been involved with a meta-analysis of serious and less-serious attempts to predict the annual minimum sea ice extent over the past six years. With a new summer upon us, researchers are at it again, trying to guess where this one will go. Summer 2012 smashed previous records for minimum ice extent in the satellite era; summer 2013 stayed above that although still well below average.

Here's how it stacks up in today's NSIDC near-real-time data, which runs through yesterday. At 9.4 million km^2 the ice extent is in the bottom 4 for this date, about 200,000 higher than 2013 but 400,000 lower than 2013. Place your bets now if you want to -- as some people are doing.


Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jul 2, 2014 - 10:01am PT


Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jul 2, 2014 - 10:21am PT
Have any ideas of your own, sketch, or just another copy-paste talking point? What is happening with Antarctic sea ice right now? Is anybody studying it? What have they learned?
raymond phule

climber
Jul 2, 2014 - 10:28am PT
Sketch, can you answer this?

Do you understand that the graph he shows is fake and is incorrect and that he is incorrect when he claims that he made a correct prediction of a cooling phase?
raymond phule

climber
Jul 2, 2014 - 10:34am PT

Wow. That's an impressive rationalization.

Or maybe an understanding of the trends in that time interval.
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jul 2, 2014 - 10:37am PT
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH

Jul 2, 2014 - 10:21am PT
Have any ideas of your own, sketch, or just another copy-paste talking point? What is happening with Antarctic sea ice right now? Is anybody studying it? What have they learned?

This new civility of yours is so refreshing.

The Antarctic Sea Ice is growing at a rate that may result in last year's record extent being surpassed.

I believe so.

Not sure. Are you having trouble finding information on the subject?

Oh yeah. Thanks for your earnest, polite replies to my previous posts.

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jul 2, 2014 - 10:43am PT
So, it was just another talking point. Why should anyone answer your "questions"?

Meanwhile another interesting Arctic ice development this week:

Whaling logbooks could hold key to retreating Arctic ice fronts

ICE fronts from the early 19th century were far more advanced around the Arctic than they are today, researchers analysing whalers’ log books from this time have discovered.

The findings have been revealed as part of the ARCdoc research project, led by the University of Sunderland, which analyses historical logbooks recorded by explorers, whalers and merchants during epic expeditions, between 1750 and 1850. The project aims to increase our scientific understanding of climate change in this environmentally important region. The logbooks include famous voyages such as Parry’s polar expedition in HMS Hecla and Sir John Franklin’s lost journey to navigate the Northwest Passage.

Some of the most significant data to emerge from the project has come from painstaking analysis of 60 log books belonging to whaling vessels, which contain descriptions of sea ice advancing and retreating every summer, all of which were recorded by whalers who ventured farther north than anyone else.

Phd Student Matthew Ayre has mapped what the ice was doing during that 100 year period, around the Davis Straits area, and at a time pre-dating the emergence of anthropogenic greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. A comparison with satellite data from the last 30 years of this area shows the ice was far more advanced than it is today.

Dr Dennis Wheeler said: “Significantly this is the first time we have ever had direct observational information on the ice fronts in the North Atlantic and Davis Straits area before 1900. Until the introduction of satellite information from the 1970s, we didn’t know what the ice was doing. Well, now we know that it was more advanced, therefore the retreat of the ice in the last 30 years is part of a more recent and new pattern of climate change, so these log books contain absolutely vital climatologically information.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 2, 2014 - 10:46am PT
The planet is losing sea ice extent.

Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jul 2, 2014 - 11:01am PT
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH

Jul 2, 2014 - 10:43am PT
So, it was just another talking point.

What are you talking about?

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 2, 2014 - 11:08am PT


Why is One Pole Colder Than the Other?


Antarctica (the South Pole) is land surrounded by oceans, while the Arctic (surrounding the North Pole) is an ocean almost completely surrounded by continents and Greenland.

The Arctic isn't quite as cold as Antarctica, and here are some reasons why:

A massive ice sheet covers almost all of the Antarctic continent. Although glaciers are common in the Arctic, Greenland has the only permanent ice sheet, but it's only about 1/8 the size of the Antarctic ice sheet.

As the Arctic Ocean surrounds the North Pole, the ice cover is sea ice that floats on the ocean (only about 10-20 feet / 3-6 meters thick), instead of that massive ice sheet (more than 2 miles / 3 kilometers thick in places).

The Arctic's thin ice cover has water, not land, under it. While the water is anything but warm (it's temperature is, naturally, above the freezing point - or else it would be ice), it is much, much warmer than the air above the ice - and some of this heat makes its way through the ice to the air.

The ice cap over the Arctic Ocean is always moving because of the winds above it and the ocean currents beneath it. This movement causes large cracks (called "leads") to open up - even in winter - and this allows ocean heat to escape into the air.
Land loses heat faster than water.
Antarctic has stronger winds than the Arctic.http://www.athropolis.com/arctic-facts/fact-poles.htm



Therefore: there is NO relevance to a theory that the Antarctic is either an indication or a predictive tool to negate overall global warming
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jul 2, 2014 - 11:30am PT
Therefore: there is NO relevance to a theory that the Antarctic is either an indication or a predictive tool to negate overall global warming

That may be true, but it sure is a good tool for stirring up fears over global warming.

Did you know the West Antarctica ice sheet is collapsing?
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 2, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
Yep, too bad for some future generations.
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jul 2, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
Thanks for the illustration.

-----------------------------------


For Chiloe:

It’s getting colder around Antarctica and so the ice is growing.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 2, 2014 - 12:18pm PT
Thanks for your non-concern, Sketch.
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jul 2, 2014 - 12:19pm PT
Oh, the humanity.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Jul 2, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
LOL!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jul 2, 2014 - 07:58pm PT
whoa... big uptick in Sketch dominance on a wide range of threads - climate, Repugs are retards....

I've got an idea, thatnks to Ricks concern over my possible substance abuse. In the spirit of transparency and everyones keen interest in comtribution to statistical analysis, we should all state the volume and type of ingested psychoactive drug intake for the day, much like Rob Ford just did ( pot, crack, Heroin, Booze.... the "full gamut" he said).

This could lead to a perhaps yet unexamined field of study regarding Clikate politics.

I'll start. Today I returned from my summit (stone free) to a double Ceasare on the Gondolla deck, while waiting for my daughter to finish work. Damn tasty too.

Sketch you next. Exactly how much coke did you snort today? - I mean starting at 0600 and reaching a cresendo perhaps not just yet, considering your voluminous regurgitations still underway.

Everyone else too please, and also state your membership in various political parties such as the communist party or the KKK.

Rick, I hope you can be the impartial ( cough, hack....) and objective statician ( barf) you will need to compile the forthcoming data into something worth submitting to your peers at Wutzupwitdat.com for rubberstamp aproval.

But wait..... whatever happened to the chuff anyway? Have you checked on him lately Rick?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 2, 2014 - 08:00pm PT
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jul 2, 2014 - 08:49pm PT
Could We Live Without Pipelines and Tar Sands?
http://www.bcsea.org/blog/guy-dauncey/2014/06/18/could-we-live-without-pipelines-and-tar-sands
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jul 2, 2014 - 09:23pm PT
Ahh yes TGT, you're onto the fact that global cooling is already underway. Soon feedbacks such as albedo change from increased cloudtop reflectivity and huge up ticks in global sea ice will quicken the pace of cooling as we slide into uncharted territory of reduced TSI in the prolonged mimima of solar cycle 24/25.

Where is The Chief? Well the undisputed master is testing the waters in the high country and riding his Ducati at light speed on highways and byways of the east side. Enjoying life to the fullest and with not a care in the world for the hopeless loons here he convincingly trounced.

As for my ingestion of substances, I'm only hooked on coffee and all the sawdust I can snort on my construction venture, pushing 60 and solo. Besides wanting to make up the 15k I'm overbudget on the well and excavation, I'm enjoying the process.
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