Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jan 10, 2014 - 03:10pm PT
The Troposphere (the air that we breathe and where airliners fly) extends to about 10km altitude (approx 36K feet). In other words the section of the atmosphere that directly affects our environment. The pressure at the top of the Troposphere is 250 hPa. About 1/2 of sea level pressure for reference. So now you can interpret the charts relative to the Troposphere.

So all the graphs that Ed posted on the previous page show warming all the way up the Troposphere. For each region of the earth. Certainly less in the southern Extra Tropics (southern oceans and Antarctica) than in northern latitudes.

Good info on the atmosphere here. Note the section on Physical Properties: pressure and thickness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere

But all this is quibbling about detail (yeah, the Devil's in the Details).

See Ed's Bonus Plot FAQ 2.1
Each of the graphs shows global warming in a different way. Land surface air, marine air, sea surface, troposphere temperatures. Ocean heat content, sea level rise (warm sea is less dense than cold sea), arctic sea ice extent, glacier mass.
This is the historical data.
Period.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jan 10, 2014 - 03:16pm PT
the ipcc graphs show the mid troposphere in a cooling trend and in some instances the stratosphere warming professor.
Strange but not surprising to see Rick's condescension toward Ed combined in a single sentence with his inability to read the graphs that Ed posted.

Thanks for highlighting what the blogs are indicating.
Accidental irony, I guess.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 03:17pm PT





Sorry dude (High Traverse) but it does not put out 145HP.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2010/09/10/yamaha-fz1-best-used-bikes/


Just another example of the bullshet that flooooooooooooows here.
raw

Mountain climber
Malibu
Jan 10, 2014 - 03:40pm PT
Why do Leonardo DiCaprio and Richard Branson lecture us about carbon consumption while plotting trips to space?

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304325004579296781320668314
TLP

climber
Jan 10, 2014 - 03:42pm PT
Rick, you can see from the past couple pages (1000 pages?) why I think that the tone and content of this thread is not enhanced by personalizing things. It would be better if every single post were relabeled with a random code, so that no one could tell whether the same person posted message #21345 and #21768. I bet we'd lose most of the stupid insult stuff in a hurry and find out what valid skepticism is out there and be able to discuss it objectively.

...exactly as High has done with regard to the troposphere graphs posted by Ed H. earlier. So far, looking just at the actual substance of comments, it is looking like it is the skepticism that is wearing the emperor's new clothes, not global warming/climate change.

It is interesting that not one person who posts here expressing skepticism about the theory/interpretation/hypothesis has taken up the suggestion I made to say what he/she believes, not what you disbelieve. Do you not think there is any long-term warming at all? There is warming but it is not much and we shouldn't worry? There is a lot of warming but it is entirely naturally-driven? or what? I'm just curious.
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jan 10, 2014 - 04:01pm PT
It is interesting that not one person who posts here expressing skepticism about the theory/interpretation/hypothesis has taken up the suggestion I made to say what he/she believes, not what you disbelieve.

How about the believers? Which AGWers have taken up the suggestion you made to say what he/she believes?
TLP

climber
Jan 10, 2014 - 04:21pm PT
That's a good question, but I did very specifically say what I think is the case, based on the data and science I've seen. Opinion subject to change based on some kind of substantive new science. (There is a long-term warming trend, human activity is contributing significantly to it, and there will likely be adverse consequences. How adverse, not sure.) Speak up, folks.

But I also said I don't think the human population as a whole is going to do anything to alter the trend in a substantive way. For example, see the graph below (data is from U.S. Energy Information Administration, nice image came from elsewhere but I checked against the original spreadsheet and it's the same). The numbers this was based on are certainly accurate enough to provide a valid overview.
Credit: TLP
Totally setting aside (for just the present moment) the question of advisability, it is obviously technologically, economically, and/or politically infeasible for emissions in the U.S. and EU to be reduced by enough, short term (10-20 years) to compensate for increases in China and India. And those countries are not going to change their trends for quite a while. Probably not unless there are some incredibly massive adverse consequences that occur within their own borders, and maybe not even then. A cynic might suggest that China would love to have some disaster-driven population reduction, and certainly would prefer that to squeezing their job creation that is founded on coal consumption, with the resultant social upheaval.

Anyway, we're in for whatever is going to happen or not happen. In my personal opinion, it is advisable to try to come up with reasonable scenarios of the consequences so we can prepare for the most likely ones in advance.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 04:48pm PT
It is interesting that not one person who posts here expressing skepticism about the theory/interpretation/hypothesis has taken up the suggestion I made to say what he/she believes, not what you disbelieve.

Bullshet!


I concur with Sketch. Not one of these AGW Zealots here has been honest as to their true underlying "belief" and quest via this insane madness of an ideology.

Well, maybe a couple have... EDH for example. He was somewhat frank when he very selectively shared waaaaaaaaaaaaay up thread how this was more of political agenda than anything.

As was KMAN on his very first post:

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz

Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 28, 2009 - 01:00pm PT
I read a funny quote: We're treating Mother Earth like Keith Moon treated a hotel room.

Just wondering, are there any more climate change skeptics out there? Or did they all die off from gagging on all the right-wing spin on the subject?


OH! My BAD...

It is also obvious where FUKEDINTHEHEADMENTAL stands. MSNBC and all.

DMT: Fence Straddler. Gotta do what ya gotta do to be part of the.. Tribe.
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Jan 10, 2014 - 05:36pm PT
A cynic might suggest that China would love to have some disaster-driven population reduction, and certainly would prefer that to squeezing their job creation that is founded on coal consumption, with the resultant social upheaval.

A cynic? You'd have to be insane to believe that. A country that monitors every available social media for signs of organized protest is scared sh1tless of an environmental catastrophe that'll cause it's population to revolt. China sees the writing on the wall: racing like mad to build high-end, low-footprint factories that will build green technologies. Cornering the solar panel market was just a first step: consider how they lie in wait for the latest technologies to go to market before they force their bankruptcies and subsequent purchases.

As for getting the anti-AGW pinheads here to argue their positions; it ain't gonna happen. We'll present all the science they need to form an informed opinion, and they'll reply as is culturally appropriate for science-fearing, backwards culture, married to a conservative ideology that says any effort to improve our environment is a communist plot to steal their ill-gotten wealth.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Jan 10, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^racist^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 05:42pm PT
All political FUKEDINTHEHEADMENTAL. Nothing more... Told ya.



China sees the writing on the wall: racing like mad to build high-end, low-footprint factories that will build green technologies.

Well there ya go FUKEDINTHEMENTAL. Even more reason for you to pack your shet and get the fk outta here... asap.


No balls to put your ass where your mouth is. None.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 05:43pm PT
TLP

climber

Jan 10, 2014 - 01:21pm PT



FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM

Jan 10, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
A cynic might suggest that China would love to have some disaster-driven population reduction, and certainly would prefer that to squeezing their job creation that is founded on coal consumption, with the resultant social upheaval.

A cynic? You'd have to be insane to believe that. A country that monitors every available social media for signs of organized protest is scared sh1tless of an environmental catastrophe that'll cause it's population to revolt. China sees the writing on the wall: racing like mad to build high-end, low-footprint factories that will build green technologies. Cornering the solar panel market was just a first step: consider how they lie in wait for the latest technologies to go to market before they force their bankruptcies and subsequent purchases.

As for getting the anti-AGW pinheads here to argue their positions; it ain't gonna happen. We'll present all the science they need to form an informed opinion, and they'll reply as is culturally appropriate for science-fearing, backwards culture, married to a conservative ideology that says any effort to improve our environment is a communist plot to steal their ill-gotten wealth.


anita514

Gym climber
Great White North

Jan 10, 2014 - 02:39pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^racist^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

See... even your GF says so.



Damn!
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Jan 10, 2014 - 06:02pm PT
.....what an R-word.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Jan 10, 2014 - 06:03pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^awesome^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<
< ditto
<
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 06:19pm PT
China sees the writing on the wall: racing like mad to build high-end, low-footprint factories that will build green technologies.

Yup.

They assuredly are doing that...





FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM

Jan 10, 2014 - 03:02pm PT
.....what an R-word.

You obviously were speaking directly into the mirror.



Perfect and Niiiiiiiiiiice.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 06:48pm PT
Regional Weather^^^^^^^ Niiice.


BTW: CLIMATE CENTRAL's largest funder.... GOOGLE.


Who OWNS Google.



You guessed it....





Oh, these people pay a heavy handsome contribution to Climate Central as well...





Like Ron says, "Follow the Money".
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jan 10, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
"There is a long-term warming trend, human activity is contributing significantly to it, and there will likely be adverse consequences. How adverse, not sure."



That pretty much sums it up for me.I would stay away from the ideology of it,but that is not possible.



I push for alternatives,to combat the problems at hand [which by the way the heartlanders deny].

2 days after the"blizzard",it is gone now
2 days after the"blizzard",it is gone now
Credit: wilbeer
This post is 20k old,You all know the players, who would you trust?




50f saturday and rain.


Then there is reality
Then there is reality
Credit: wilbeer
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jan 10, 2014 - 07:41pm PT
2 days after the"blizzard",it is gone now

Blizzard?

How much snow did you get? Where that picture was taken?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 07:47pm PT



I would stay away from the ideology of it,but that is not possible.


The above Propaganda funded in most part by this amazing dude....






You assuredly did not even know that WILLBERRREE. Most likely do not even give a fk either.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jan 10, 2014 - 08:14pm PT
Same chart is in here.http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cdo-web/
Sketch:
Taken at the edge of my property,we received 8 inches of snow ,it was gone in 3 days and then we had -2f temps for a day .[good mountain biking though]
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